The rules of civilization are designed to teach how to objectify and thereby how to develop self-restraint. Yes, women are treated as objects but all members of the social banquet are. That's what it's for. Like the Constitution of the US: it's a set of rules that try to get across the idea of restraints on power so everyone has a change (albeit as an object) to have a turn. If food mattered, then why not eat on all fours from the floor, like animals. The powerful and the winners at the banquet need to exercise self-restraint too, right Mr. Trump and your 1 percent gang, which include women too, right?
3
What a delightful piece! Ritualistic eating is common to lots of cultures, and I am pleased to learned it is just as nutty in China.
6
fascinating and well written. It reads like a good movie script.
9
What an astounding first person account of cultural drinking rituals in China.
“The World in 2020” edition just published by Economist magazine has an article “Glass half-empty; a century after Prohibition, drinking is going out of fashion.” It discusses a worldwide trend for moderation in drinking, and for lighter alcohol content beverages.
It also says hard “alcohol is carcinogenic even in small amounts, but most people do not know that. So tobacco-style warnings are being talked about....For now, only South Korea has a compulsory cancer warning on alcohol bottles.”
Low- and no-alcohol innovations in beer, wine and spirits are said to be booming.
6
It seems you handled the situation as best you could, and of course, you had leverage by being the guest of honor, not "the girl".
The four years of living outside China probably benefited you: you had just enough "dumb American" in you to avoid getting sucked into the plan.
13
Ms. Yan's translation of the Chinese Mandarine saying "min yi shi wei tian" = "food is the top priority of the people" is almost verbatim confirmed by several tanslations in Internet.
Puzzlingly though, the Translator on my tablet from Engkish to Chinese gives this saying as "shínwù shì rémín zhàng zhõng zhī zhòng". Alas, the rudiments of my Chinese, learned growing up in the Russian-speaking environment of the former Empire Manchu-Di-Guo, are wholly insufficient to translate the latter phrase.
3
It's the same in Japan and worse in India.
What I regret in China is that all baijiu tastes the same to me, which seems a waste when we drink from super fancy bottles. It's an interesting cat and mouse game, too and a bit of mind-over-matter. You watch your body become incapacitated but your mind needs to stay sharp and aware. The Chinese know what they're doing.
6
It is fascinating to me that the NYT Picks for this article are overwhelmingly authored by men, an editorial stance that utterly glosses over the obvious harassment and distress these events engender.
Hey guys, are there any ladies working the screening boards today?!
21
As a non-Chinese woman who has spent years in China under different auspices, I can tell you that this article is entirely accurate is its portrayals of Chinese banqueting. I am grateful to Yan Ge for sharing this is that other non-Chines visitors and businesspeople going to China for pleasure or work will better understand the unwritten dynamics at work in such situations. However, my response in them was always to simply say, “ I do not drink.” I encourage Yan Ge, and many others, to do the same. It is in the interest of everyone’s health, dignity and success. I have seen too many deals gone south, people’s health ruined and much money wasted in this social custom.
17
Good grief! And good for Ms. Yan!
4
Please, more articles by this wonderful writer!
11
This comment is more about the woman (girl/daughter/niece..) who is Missing from the Banquet (Family Function...) rather than the one who is the actual the object of a Chinese Business Banquet. Being Separated from my now ex-wife, my daughter wasn't attending Family Gatherings, Chinese (-American) Banquets, etc. Family and Friends would inquire about the absence of my (then adolescent) daughter. They knew I had a daughter, but haven't seen her for "ages". That is when I nicknamed my daughter: "Baby Pigeon". How many people have actually seen a Baby Pigeon? Not many. But you know they exist b/c you see adult pigeons. Thus is story of "my" Baby Pigeon.
9
@Uscdadnyc
I sense a note of loss and sadness in your comment which I noticed because I’m a pigeon lover and owner of a rescued pet pigeon. Indeed, I’ve never personally seen a baby pigeon but I’ve seen an occasional sterile egg laid by my female pigeon. I hope you will one day be reunited with your “pigeon” at the family banquet table.
3
#me too the Chinese way, eh? Revolting.
6
Interesting peek into the world of being uptight in China. We non-Chinese are also uptight when we are young and climbing or when we think we have mastered our social circle and need to hold onto our perceived throne. We are also sometimes too "hang loose" when we should just be comfortable. Finding that comfort zone between blushing embarrassment at our naiveté and superior snoot-in-the-air lordliness is a studied skill earned over many such "banquets". We all wish you luck now at 34 and sincerely hope you make it to 60 where your comfort is your natural zone.
1
My son was married in Chengdu to a beautiful Chinese woman. Her parents provided an amazing banquet for all of the American guests and family members. It was just as described in the elegance of food on the round table. It was an absolutely beautiful ceremony providing tributes and welcoming to all of the guests. We did the traditional toasting as described and I joyfully participated. As the evening progressed my daughter-in-law whispered in my ear that perhaps I should not drink (I was not inebriated). I am still uncertain if it was unseemly for a woman to participate or if she was concerned for her father's drinking. Someday I will ask.
I would never dream of imposing my Western customs and expectations on to my hosts. My job was to enjoy the experience and learn about and celebrate the beautiful Chinese culture. In our own country, I wish more people would explore the unique cultures that immigrants have brought to us. There is much to enjoy and to learn.
10
During a recent month as a tourist in Taiwan I was struck by the relative absence of bars and alcohol in restaurants, although you could easily buy beer, wine and spirits in the 7-Elevens. To me it looked like plenty of Chinese tourists from various countries were heartily enjoying their weekends and vacation tours with little “help” from alcohol.
I was left wondering whether the Asian economic powerhouses are thriving partly due to an everyday sobriety that’s rarer in the west. This essay only adds to my fascinated exploration of Chinese culture.
5
Hilarious!! Apparently, many of the commenters---I'd say most of them--have never been "the girl" or "the geisha" in an American situation. Yes, it happens. Hopefully, when it does, one's career isn't on the line--becauae it can end up being a highly amusing night out with"the boys." That is, if it doesnt descend into truly foul jokes at the woman's expense, which doesn't need to happen and if the men truly like you, it won't. If I'd only known how to conduct myself those situations, I think my tech journalism career would have gone much further. The big issue in the U.S. is that women think this game will change. It will get less offensive to women, but I doubt it will ever go away.
5
China has more women in senior management roles at companies than most Western countries, and certainly more than Korea or Japan
Another anti-China hit piece? These opinion pieces are no editorial accident. If the NYTimes ran a similar article illustrating the barbarity of traditional circumcision by orthodox Jews, they would be buried under outrage over anti-Semitism.
3
@Jeffrey Goldstein Perhaps when they start treating women as equals, there won't be any fodder for "hit" pieces.
8
@Lelaine X In my experience, Chinese women in management positions are more respected in China than in the US.
1
That could well be. But what about the women not in management, which are the vast majority...?
8
Does not seem so different from the company Christmas parties that I remember now at the age of 88. It was always about the women.
7
While we extol “equality” in the west the most rapidly developed major economy ever known maintains its ancient and astonishing inequality. Perhaps suggesting that seeking equality is not an essential ingredient of continued economic advancement as many claim. China remains a “male world”. And likely to remain one far into the imaginable future.
1
@Peter I Berman Wow. Seeking equality may not technically be an essential ingredient of continued economic advancement, in fact, look at the US, where we have economic advancement but not full equality (even if more than in China). But it sure is an essential ingredient for a just and moral society, one that treats all humans with the same respect. You do realize that that 'maintenance' is because of ingrained Confucian misogyny, and a full-blown will to ignore the rights of women, right? I mean, how is China's male world working out for women when police will stand by and willingly do nothing in the case of violent assaults? Domestic violence? Attempted murder even?
10
Brilliant.
1
funny not funny.
5
Chinese try to get foreigners drunk in public to embarrass them, prove what Chinese have always said (nonChinese are savages tenancy) for centuries, and doing so is patriotic. I’ve said at the beginning of a banquet that I don’t drink to nip the attack in the bud. If you represent US government, Chinese attempts to get you drunk may be aggressive, but passive aggressive with a big fake smile
17
I commend the author for taking some of her power back in such a gross situation by simply not playing along with antiquated 'rules', saving face be damned (let's face it - this only benefits the powerful). And I would have ditched the "friend" who set me up in such a dishonest way. I might even have walked out of the dinner once I understood what was going on. Woe be it to ANYONE that would try this with me.
I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for the kind of sexism described here, to depart the scene. But at least they're not still killing female babies.
10
I cringed with Ms. Yan when I read all the faux pas she made, at the same time I was worried about what was going to happen.
I'm glad that notwithstanding her faux pas, she socialized on her own terms, ensured her safety, and beat them at their own game.
She didn't need them for anything, but they were the ones who wanted her to sign a book contract with them. Fortunately, she signed with another publisher long before she arrived at the party.
6
While the type of behavior mentioned in the article would be condemned and outlawed if it happened in the US the key thing is not to go to war over it ie China vs the US or even less measures like sanctions etc.
With the exception of torture, genocide, rape, war crimes etc. that should be prevented and the guilty brought to justice, we have learned with disastrous results what happened when we try to impose American values on other countries.
The best way to change the system in China is to encourage people especially women who want to get away from this to immigrate to the US or let American valves into China without imposing them ie with entertainment, media etc.
8
@Paul
Based on what has gone on in this country for the last 3 1/2 years, I would say that we are not exactly a beacon of humility or virtue.
54
Oh please. What a ridiculous suggestion that all the women of China should emigrate.
As China matures into a post-industrial society, people will not always feel the need to be intoxicated in order to socialize or conduct business.
Until then, more brave pioneers such as the author will demonstrate by their actions that yes, there is another way.
Openness and candor do not require an alcoholic haze.
6
@Max thank you for you reply. You are zeroing in on one aspect ie alcohol. It is as bad here as over there.
Any woman that wants to and can should emigrate, not all.
You did bring up a point though that I agree with. In addition to bringing in American ideas, leaders like this woman can start it from within.
However to start a war or even things like sanctions to make China more of our culture than their culture can only lead to disaster.
3
I see a woman with authority helping another in need. Thank you! I’d like to more of us doing the same in different situations.
67
The China the Awkwafina types don't know and don't want non-Chinese to know. How would one complain about being "othered" by white Americans if they knew how badly one is treated when one's own race is in charge?
31
I don’t understand your point. Are you saying that it’s okay for the “Awkwafina types” — to use your term — to be treated badly here in the United States because they would also be treated badly in China? That sounds perilously close to advocating a world view in which some people exist as a perpetual underclass, who should uncomplainingly accept unequal treatment wherever they go. No thank you, sir.
6
It was recently reported that scientists had discovered that re-introducing predators back into environments they had been eliminated from by hunting actually helped revive the entire ecosystem. Wolves reintroduced helped the native plants thrive along waterways. Sharks in French Polynesia help the reef flourish. More than 40 million sharks are killed every year, mostly for shark fin soup served at Chinese banquets. This tasteless broth is supposed to show how important the host is. Sharks reproduce very slowly. Some species only bear one pup a year. Other examples of Chinese gastronomy and "medicine" wiping out endangered or at risk species abound. With Chinese new-found economic clout, unless there is a sustained educational campaign, the natural world is imperiled.
46
@Sean Bruner Western society is busy wiping out species worldwide, including endangering the environment we live in today... Don't single out one culprit.... plenty of blame to go around with destructive or excessive fishing and hunting.
4
Interesting, yes, but it's hard to see why the drinking culture in a land 10,000 miles away is all that relevant.
10
@Peter Piper
Because China has maintained the fastest growing economy in the world for decades, now has the best chain of supply in the world, and is increasingly using its economic and technological clout the way the Europeans did in the Sixteenth through Nineteenth centuries.
In order to compete with China we need to better understand its culture or China will continue to outsmart our CEOs who are hopelessly handicapped by the limitations of an education in the tunnel vision of Western Civilization.
The Chinese Communist Party has proven that central planning does not necessarily lead to economic failure, We should all be concerned that the that the Chinese government has rejected freedom of speech, freedom of the press, and freedom of religion. We have much to learn from the success of Chinese culture over the past 3000 years.
We ignore China at the risk of many of the ideals of Western Civilization that we most cherish.
79
@Peter Piper
My take on the purpose of writing about Dr Yuexing's experience was sharing an incident involving culture, gender, and business influences. I suppose my question to your post would be 'relevant to what?'
Maybe its only relevance was to inform. And there could be useful takeaways from it regarding cultural perceptions of gender and business.
Regardless, I enjoyed the read.
44
@Peter Piper It is relevant to curious minds and people who want to understand better what happens in other places (AKA education) , a sign of human interest in others, and understanding that we in the US have a way of life and that billions of humans in other places live differently. The country where your refrigerator, toaster oven, clothinhg and high tech gadgets and steel imports originate, matters as well as the one from which your chocolate is originally sourced (not Switzerland BTW).
29
When the partaking of haute cuisine becomes a snobbish, women-discriminating ritual, would it not be better to avoid such gatherings alltogether?
2
@Tuvw Xyz Of course you can avoid such gatherings -- and be invisible in business decisions. The challenge is that the male drinking environment is boorish but if a woman doesn't participate, she is invisible and gets nothing. The challenge is to participate in a way that serves your own purposes.
6
My trick in Russia was to put champagne in my shot glass. After too many toasts, I downgraded to beer, which was usually warm by then, so it was easy to barely sip it. I just flat out refused vodka. If they're really pushing it, say your doctor forbids you and suggest you shouldn't be drinking the shots of champagne.
Few women can out drink big, burly guys, particularly not big, burly, Russian men who've been swilling vodka since their teens. Don't even try.
8
Humble brag if ever there was one.
1
How is it that you know all the fascinating, subtle cues but manage to have not understood that you are an author having a banquet with a publisher? I think you knew perfectly well but decided it made for a less interesting story.
1
"At the party, it soon became obvious that the purpose of this banquet was to get me to sign my next novel with this publishing house."
why not try a sober business meeting next time? with plans prepared beforehand.
negotiating drunk is generally a bad idea in business. doing any serious mental activity is generally a bad idea while inebriated, unless you just want your mind "to wander".
"how to survive as anyone in the business world"
p.s. reserve a _non-smoking_ banquet hall next time for social events. it's a pleasure to meet you when you don't have toxic fumes emanating from your trachea.
1
@thomas bishop Ahhhhh, but that is the Chinese way.....get 'um drunk in order to gain the upper advantage.
3
@Thomas Bishop
The author was invited without being told the true purpose of the banquet. The article was about surviving an ambush.
10
A fascinating look at a pathetic social convention. Thank God there is a Vermont.
4
What a disgusting ritual. It's not really about business, but about the grossness of some males.
7
This sounds awful.
7
Who wants to party?
So what do the Chinese think when teetotaler Trump attends banquets in China?
1
The sexism and peril (for women, especially young women) described here are real. I have worked in East Asia, and have seen it firsthand time and time again. It truly is this horrible. And the stakes are often higher than described here. In many cases, if one opts out they are putting their jobs and livelihoods at risk.
108
Very illuminating. As a legal economist (male) I have represented a number of Chinese and Taiwanese businesses and was subjected to many such meals, including several wedding celebrations. Usually, I was the oldest person in the room and was seated facing the door. My role usually involved a project to defend in some detail what the client had been doing that was otherwise questionable. Accordingly needed my full wits, both in the morning and afternoon. However, knowledge of this fact never deterred the toasts, even at lunch, after I explained to the client that their numbers would not work if they got me drunk. Once, a teacup for offloading baijiu from my cheek, on the way to a convenient plant, actually saved the day for me.
5
Is this China's version of a 1% problem?
1
I visited Chengdu in 2006 and attended a few banquets in those private dining rooms. I loved the giant turntable at the center of a round dining table that rotated with an array of wonderful food. How brilliant, I thought recalling large family banquets back home at rectangular tables that necessitated multiple serving platters of the same food or lots of passing back and forth. I later discovered the concept was not entirely Chinese (https://www.smithsonianmag.com/arts-culture/lazy-susan-classic-centerpiece-chinese-restaurants-neither-classic-nor-chinese-180949844/).
At a Chengdu banquet for university graduates, one being honored asked for my Chinese astrological sign and we discovered that we were both born in the Year of the Rabbit. When the food was served and the turntable began to spin, he made sure to point out dishes to be avoided because they contained rabbit. He explained his love of rabbits and belief that one must ally with their power and not kill and eat the animals of our individual signs. Though not necessarily my “favorite” (birds and dogs are), I’ve always loved rabbits and never eaten them, so I thanked and assured him that I shared his feelings.
The thing is, I actually did share his feelings as one human to another relating how nature uniquely inspires each of us and our mutual desire to honor that inspiration in myriad, culturally-inflected ways. Much astonishment, enchantment, and new things learned during that trip. I hope to return one day.
1
Fascinating. And insightful as to why our current temporary leader wont get the China relationship any better then his predecessors.
This piece is by a professional writer of books. It is a commercial work of fiction written in order to financially benefit its author. It should not be confused with a true and accurate story humorously told.
Even as a work of fiction, its premise is not believable. A "surprise" business party???
2
All you really need to know is: pour tea for others first, don't take food with your personal chopsticks, offer food to others first, don't stick your chopsticks in your rice bowl leaving them standing up (that's inviting ghosts), don't turn your bowl upside down on your plate (inviting starvation), try everything at least once, don't drink too much alcohol, don't whine or say depressing things at the table unless you are the head of the family, don't eat EVERYthing on your plate, leave a few morsels, and if you don't want more tea just leave it in the tea cup so its full. Outside of those things, have a good time and do enjoy the food.
1
Reading through this article I got same feeling I get when I pick up a so-called popular book at the airport and attempt to read a paragraph or two. ( 'This is great,” another woman at the table sighed.') Then it struck me. The simple sentence structure and vocabulary feels as if it's written for older children, or a young teenage audience So I ran it through the Automated readability index. Sure enough.
"Automated Readability Index: 6.8 Grade level: 11-13 yrs. old (Sixth and Seventh graders)"
I supposed this is explained by the fact that 85% of Americans have a literacy level of 6th-8th grade or below.
However this is the type of writing I would expect to read in Time or Newsweek, or USA today and not in the NY Times.
2
Why did you go more than once?
2
Et tu, Jeffrey Epstein?!
Sounds abhorrent. Far too many cultures, religions, clubs, and gatherings treat women as second-class citizens, as sexual playthings, and demean them.
It happens in the U.S., too, in far too many places, groups, and sects.
4
“Do you think she needs some help?” I asked a young man sitting beside me, a lecturer at a university in Beijing.
“She doesn’t need help from you,” he said in a knowing tone. “That woman knows very well what she’s doing.”
THIS. In a world dominated by men, women who want equal power are made to jump through ridiculous hoops, and then get villified as 'nasty' women, gold diggers, or worse by men AND women.
4
While these drinking banquets are common in China and Japan, it is important to realize that they are not long-held cultural treasures. In the long history of these nations, public drunkenness was more frequently abjured than honored.
It might be the Russian influence. It might be Western in general. The point is that Confucius did not decree drunken debauchery and lechery in public. Nor did Buddha. Quite the opposite.
And just like drunken parties with strippers and steak eaten without utensils (something common thirty years ago) are on the wane in American business dinners, the kind of banquets described here can fade away, too. It isn’t “woke” to think so, it’s merely recognizing the difference between fads and culture.
3
Here is the trick I used to survive these heavy toasting banquets in Chengdu (I've been to several) while everyone is toasting and taking photos, I secretly empty my bottle of nasty “white wine” and replace with harmless water
75
@john kwiatkowski
i once knew a tree surgeon and his computer programmer wife who both advised the doing same thing if at banquets of this nature. congrats
18
Describes accurately my experience. If you do not want to get completely drunk you must say apologetically at the outset, "[no alcohol], doctor's orders". There is nothing acceptable in between. Abstention will nevertheless put a damper on things. It all seems sad, unhealthy and a bit coercive to me.
60
Though not exactly the same, this reminds me of ritualized drinking dinners over business in Korea, which can be a nightmare for women trying to compete in a clearly male-dominated country and anyone (man or woman) who does not wish to or cannot drink.
6
What a terrific elucidation of contemporary Chinese mores! Here is what I know:
1) I really want to attend a banquet such as this.
2) Please, dear God, do not ever require me to me attend a banquet like this.
While I understand that this level of ritualized abstraction is common in Asian business culture, it seems like such an epic waste of energy.
4
The culture of China today is relevant to the moveable feast culture of America today. Food, food, glorious food, and people ranked by importance at the banquet dining tables in each country. Can it be that President Xi Jinping's first name ( "XI", meaning "banquet" and "happy") as it does in Ms. Yan Ge's beautiful piece, "How to Survive as a Woman at a Chinese Banquet" means hope for our hopeless times?
For a westerner and American what one can learn from this article is just how different cultures can be, and how western western (i.e. American feminist) attempts to ram an entirely new ethos down the throats of others -- including a majority of people living in the US -- can be unpalatable and uninvited. Traditions that go back thousands of years are not easily undone and not necessarily something we should wish to undo in a single upheaval that fips society on its head. America is paying a high price for its craven capitulation to a zeitgeist perpetrated by a noisy quorum of intersectionalized misfits whereby nothing is venerated, and anything bizarre, unconventional, mutant and artificial becomes a sacred cow. Clearly the author of this article has swallowed the new ethos hook line and sinker. A billion other Chinese refuse to catch u with her enlightened state. And for this we should be grateful.
@JJ Gross Interesting that you think treating women as equals be viewed as enlightened, when most women and decent people would view equality as what should be the norm. I get not wanting to too crazily upset "tradition", but when it comes to treating all humanity equally, why wait?
1
I spent many years in Shanghai. There the wives have control over the finances and give the men an allowance. I actually heard from Chinese colleagues that the allowance was calculated as to not allow the man to support a mistress. Don't know whether that is true in not but it is a fact that families in Shanghai, if they are not poor, can amass quite a fortune due to the cleverness of this arrangement.
3
If I ever receive an invitation to a Chinese banquet, I’ll probably pass on it given what I have read here. I never had any patience for parlor games.
4
The social requirements sound exhausting.
3
Yan Ge is certainly no longer “the girl” anymore. She is now a person who knows who she is and is courageous enough to make her own choices and live with them. Bravo!
3
There's nobody as crass as businessmen, no matter their culture. Added wealth only makes them more crass, never cultured.
4
Before Westerners judge this story they might want to visit China to better understand the social order culture.
Comparing Asian and Western cultures is a non-starter since Asian culture is thousands of years old and Western culture is relatively new.
The social status of women will evolve as China's economy increasingly depends on women workers. Women in Japanese businesses are just beginning to be viewed as promotable.
Living in Thailand taught me a bit about Asian social order and while it may not make sense to Westerners, particularly women, Thai women aren't revolting against the cultural order.
Women still struggle for equality in America and Republican voters support Republican politicians who continue to refuse to pass legislation to improve the lot of women.
Nothing in life is as simple as it appears.
48
@Ken Solin Ken, I don't know where you live now, but I'd be surprised if you live in the good ole USA where women earn approximately $.79 to each $1 earned by a man. Where women must create a Me Too movement to have their grievances heard. Where women are groped in the subway. Where women's health is in jeopardy and losing more ground every minute. Where women are marginalized.
42
@Ken Solin There is zero excuse for the social status of women in China not to evolve IMMEDIATELY, without depending on the status of women workers. Are we not humans too? Do we not deserve the exact same as every man on this planet? They know better. They just don't care.
42
@shar persen I think it’s important that no matter the subject a N.Y. Times commenter must weigh in with “things are worse here in the USA”. We’re the best worse country in the world. Nobody beats us.
11
My heart goes out to all Chinese introverts. If this is how business is done I would be unemployed and impoverished.
102
Six years away from Chengdu in China-time is an eternity. I'm sure you experienced that change walking thru Taikoo Hui, the airport and if you braved the subway.
Chinese business culture changes more slowly, but it too evolves. I would suggest that Chinese returning home after years abroad retain memories that are no longer of the current China Minute which is now 1/3 of a New York Minute.
16
You can always tell a fiction writer when he or she deploys the unreliable narrator. I understand this story is presented as non-fiction. However, we are very much reading the work of a fiction writer.
Anyone familiar with Chinese banquets would know they weren't "the girl" the moment she saw "the girl" seated at the table. The technique is a slow-reveal for the purpose of creating tension within the arch plot. Ms. Yan is describing how things felt rather than describing what actually happened.
The somber conclusion to request tea is also a highly conventional narrative technique. The writer must find someway to resolve the tension which she herself created. Otherwise, the reader is left feeling anxious and discontent.
In reality, the decision to drink tea probably had nothing to do with "the girl." The decision to break the news to a publisher about a deal you already signed is a probably a task best approached sober. Toasts and laughing don't really fit the tone of the conversation.
Good writing but never trust a writer not to make the facts fit the story better.
37
@Andy Thanks @Andy for mansplaining.
68
@Fuseli Sometimes it has to be done.
1
@Andy
...a writer?
You want us all to remain silent forever? including writers like Plato and Shakespeare and Baldwin etc etc etc
Where would we without them? Trying to trace figures on cave walls?
14
I don't get it, before she realized she was the guest of honor, she was still willing to go ahead as "the girl'?
(Let's put aside why a 35 year-old internationally celebrated, sought-after, publishing, agented author who lives abroad still thought she was still just "the girl' material .)
So she found her voice to say no only when she realized she was the guest of honor, but as the "the girl", she did not think, for all her Western wokeness, to roll her eyes, laugh with contempt, turn heel, and exit the restaurant?
19
@Ego, OK, we get it. She should have given everyone in the room the middle finger, punched the businessmen, spit on her friend, screamed "MAGA" and maybe threw a drink on someone before she slammed the door behind her.
Some commenters just HAVE to let us know that she's suspect because she described an aspect of Chinese power broker tradition, as a female participant. Some here want to ask why she stayed, why she didn't already know....all the same misogynist knee jerk response to THINGS THAT DON'T MATTER.
She's a writer. She describes a situation that really does happen. Others have written similarly about mob gatherings, ways that white supremacy groups treat their women, etc. I'm sure there are women writers in those circles too, discussing experiences. It's weird that you'd contribute by sneering at them (not 'woke', but something), instead of discussing ways that cultures keep power through competition/dominance.
Can't you folks, for once, read an article about 'court machinations' like those in monarchic Europe and stop wondering why women haven't all been feminists over the centuries? "You can always say no and walk away" is a dumb person's idea of cultural discussion.
Even worse, some here are getting on the trump bandwagon of 'lying, nasty manipulating woman'.
70
@deb Right on, sista!
20
@deb
Well put Deb!
18
What an illuminating essay! I had no idea there was such a strong drinking culture in China. Is it part of Confucianism? I would love to know more.
1
Why anyone subject themselves to this nasty ordeal is beyond me. There are cultural experiences that are best left behind, this is one of them.
30
I despise formality. I hate protocol. I can't even stand making set-time appointments.
I enjoy interruptions. I love surprises. I'm not tactless, but I won't roll over just to please someone's imposed sensibilities.
I would not fit in well with Chinese culture.
28
@Steve Crisp Experience has taught me that those who like protocol and rules do so because they like to beat others over the head with it all.
2
For all those horrified by Chinese cultural customs and encouraging people to defy them, I have a question.
How is trying to impose your modern, woke, Progressive standards on other cultures any different from previous generations of Europeans being shocked at "barbaric" customs of other people and imposing their Christian beliefs and moral values on them?
That was called western colonialism, cultural imperialism,etc. How is what you are doing any different, except that you believe your current moral standards are correct and superior and Christianity's were wrong?
2
@AG Um treating men and women as equals should not be about being woke. It should be standard. And that's not a western thing, it's a human decency thing.
8
@AG . . . Apples and oranges my friend. Recognizing humans as people, not objects and giving both men and women equal treatment does not have to be an expression of any particular culture.
3
Wonderfully written narrative! I work in the tech industry and at happy hours the only one not drinking alcohol (and often the only woman at the table). It feels a little awkward, and i know there is opportunity cost in terms of potential relationships & opportunities that come with those. I just say - consistently - "I dont drink alcohol", and leave it at that. Of course American culture is a lot more patient with differences than I've seen in other countries (I say this as an immigrant who grew up outside America). So I get away with it.
So I really applaud the author for bucking the trend and asking for tea instead of alcohol. It takes quite a bit of social courage to swim against the flow. You go girl!
11
I want to thank the writer for her insights. Even after going to China for over a decade, what I am reminded of every time I go to a China is what I still don’t know. Banquets are helpful because of the layers and layers of depth to every interaction with every guest. I do want to comment on the number of readers who think they can simply say no. In the short term, it may seem justified for you to avoid a bad hangover or show you are an assertive woman or man in the US tradition of standing up for yourself. But I am afraid you will have destroyed any chance to build a relationship(s) because by not participating, you have signaled you have no interest in getting to know your host or the other guests, that you don’t have the patience to wait until the rice round to signal what business you want from the other side, and that you are quite happy to allow your host to lose face in front of all the other guests. And without relationships in China, my view is you are lost as a person or as a business person or as an academic. So my advice is to always have a round of drinks - it won’t kill you.
14
I disagree. I have experience. What you say is “I don’t drink”, not “I don’t want to drink”. If you get any pushback, you say you have a health condition. That will end the requests. Chinese don’t usually pry.
1
What a great story - so funny and beautifully written.
7
Luckily no business is conducted at the many (and I mean many) banquets held in my honor during my 20 academic trips to China. Also, I have found that western women, and also men, are excused the multiply baiju toasts. I was once at a banquet where 40+ graduate students were celebrating their MS and PhD graduations. Since I had taught all of these students each wanted to come to my table and toast with me. I did a quick calculation and decided I would preempt the students. I grabbed a bottle of biajiu and went to each student table and toasted the table (10 shots instead of over 40). Unfortunately peer pressure at these events means many locals, who carry the bad allele for acetaldehyde dehyrogenase, end up drinking far too much. Their faces turn bright red flushed with acetaldehyde and who knows what damage they are doing to their bodies. But for westerners, you can just say no.
12
This is absolutely true.
Great story to read on so many levels - culture, business, manners, food, standing up for ones self - thank you for sharing. On the food, I was thinking my Chinese takeout meal was so good the other night, and now I’m going to seek out authentic Chinese food after reading this.
11
How could a 21st century female can bear the uncomfortable situation like this? If it is a social, refuse to drink it in a very gentle way. If it is business, find an excuse in a subtle way not to drink it. We are counting on the youth to set examples adjusting the cultural behavior to modern times. Don't follow the tradition. Only the dead fish follows the stream.
13
Another GREAT example of the need for equality in ALL areas of relations between men and women. Bullying can be overt as well as subtle.
14
@Deborah agreed, and I think she does a great jobs of explaining the dynamics. I've never been to China, but I've been to Latin America. Both are what the communications world calls, "high-context cultures." Roles, rules, and expectations are not explicitly stated, it's usually very subtle.
9
Do they serve water at these banquets? Can't one toast with a glass of water as much as of anything else?
6
Doug McKenna,
Even in England it’s considered improper (or bad luck) to toast with a glass of water at a formal dinner.
I find it fascinating though that in most cultures that the first to be served is the most important or senior. A waiter usually can get away with pouring first for the one who ordered. If this knowledge fails him/her, they pour for the most senior (as in age) woman, and then serves left around the table. A common toast from the host. Then a guest spends half an hour with the guest to their left, before half an hour with the guest to their right. Couples are not seated next to each other. Final glass of port before the ladies depart to the drawing room and the gents to the smoking room for a brandy.
A bunch of rules that immediately let you know the class a person (as if the English cannot spot a working class man in a tux or an upper class man without a penny to his name on sight/first word and then condescend or resent as appropriate).
It seems to me, rituals of eating and formal dining, in all cultures, are as much about power and adherence to social power structures as a wolf pack or pod of Orcas. Wearing an evening dress and a tiara may look sparkly- but at heart we’re still just animals.
Good for the OpEd, a small awkwardness of suggesting tea passes quickly and she didn’t allow others to nudge her into playing a role she didn’t want.
11
I have been to these types of banquets in Chengdu, hosted by the VP of a famous baijiu company so of course there was a lot of toasting of what the Chinese call “white wine” which is more similar to a very strong vodka than wine. One of these banquets, which began very festively, ended up with one of the female guests vomiting and then passing out. It was such an unpleasant memory because I will never forget the look of humiliation on the face of her teenage daughter. Earlier she had told me she was so happy to finally have the chance to speak English with a native speaker. And then to have this same foreign guest see both her parents in that condition must have been very very painful; the kind of sad memory that will stay with her for a lifetime
21
Well explained while borderline bipolar and comedic. I always find drinking with Chinese an inscrutable affair, banquet, otherwise, elsewhere. They drink like novices at a frat party or nervously like a teetotaling virgin invited to a cup on a wedding night. They come to the task of drinking with some disadvantages. For one, it is determined that a good many persons have a genetic feature which makes their physiological digestion of alcohol due to a specific allele more difficult. Secondly, since these folks follow the rules of their home, secondary schools and society at large before their twenties, they rarely get involved in a variety of social drinking environments where they can practice before they get to a wedding, a business banquet or a date with a westerner. They are out of their league and then must learn to power drink or defer in a jiffy when the context of social peril and consequences is suddenly and high.
5
@Suburban Cowboy It is a contest only if one engages in the concept. A person with good judgment always understands that they are better off in control, especially in a situation where business will be discussed, and that the real contest is to get the deal done. Chinese society has used the banquet for ages and they have their concept and a system. The question is, will women continue to participate as it is practiced, when many of them would rather be approached and negotiate their deals by other means ? Alcohol is not the only way no matter where one happens to be.
24
Interesting. In Japan, we have these drinking things like this. There isn't exactly "the girl", but playing the drinking game sounds familiar.
In recent years, (in my experience) it seems like it has moved a little bit away from the drunkenness of the past, though maybe it is just because I am a stubborn American who won't be cowed into that hoo-ha. No doubt, being Caucasian, it is easier to get away with this than if one looks Asian.
At any rate, I know the Asian etiquette thing, and I get it that it is breaking the "rules", but I'd say you did the right thing. First, you showed more respect by making it clear that this publisher was wasting his time. Second, everyone ate good food and didn't get drunk. Finally, you set an example.
If people hate you for setting a good example and (genuinely) respecting them by not wasting their time and not making them sink into drunkenness, that's really their own problem. There are a lot of really good things about Chinese culture (e.g., valuing _at least_ apparent humility), but, evidently, what is described here is not among them.
25
This helps explain a dinner i attended in China at a round table in a private room with a group of executives where i was the recently sober visiting dignitary. My younger Chinese colleague had to step in and become my "designated drinker". I was stunned as they went around the table one by one toasting my colleague, an incredibly nice man. I had already spent a week in meetings conducted in Chinese saying "no, we will not do that" about once every hour as they asked us to leave our intellectual capital behind in a deal. As we entered a taxi at the end of the evening, I said, "Yong, I'm so sorry - are you okay?" He replied, "I'm dropping you off at the hotel and meeting going out with friends."
11
I so enjoyed this fascinating insight into The Chinese business culture. I almost felt like I was at the table, observing.
28
I know nothing about the banquet tradition described here, and find this a fascinating story. The nuances of drinking/toasting as negotiation tools and who sits where and why describe power dynamics reflecting intricate cultural aspects of business practices in the author's home country. It was a beautifully constructed story of the author realizing her power, her hard won position of authority at the banquet table; the banquet itself a symbol of Chinese hierarchies and how women ('girls') fit into them. The best part is when the author realizes she has the power and uses it. She stops the drinking show and creates a more civilized atmosphere of camaraderie and tea drinking. She realizes she is no longer in the subservient 'girl' role, doesn't have to play the men's game, and in fact sits at the head of the table, taking charge of the banquet. She gets to enjoy the delicious food and her own delicious freedom to do so. I raise my glass to her, Bravo!
104
I will be the guest of honor next week in Beijing, I will keep this article in mind! As a musician things seem pretty relaxed and free, but it's good to understand more.
6
@Ellen S. Women DON'T fit into Chinese hierarchies, since Chinese hierarchies don't recognize women as human beings........
3
A great read, as well as a stark comparison in cultures. Thank you so much for this article. Food for thought, as well as tickling my fancy for some great Chinese tonight.
16
I get the impression that once Ms. Yan put a quick end to the "business" aspect of the banquet, the event became a lot more social and much more pleasant. I do hope she gave the "friend" who set her up a good chewing out.
Commenters here should keep in mind that China is a gigantic country with dozens of cultures - what happens in Chengdu should not be taken as "typical" of the country as a whole. I'm surprised that the author herself fell into such a lazy generalization.
26
But this is definitely very typical. No doubt about it.
2
As a man, I always find it interesting and enlightening to see the how the world looks from the adjacent parallel track. The author’s method of gentle explanation would well serve as a model for political discourse.
30
As a woman, I can tell you many (most?) men are not interested in seeing things from a woman’s point of view, gentle or otherwise. So shall we still continue on gently, hoping for that rare moment of receptivity, hoping that leads to something meaningful? I am Asian and have been raised to subdue my needs and defer to the needs of others. I did that for four decades and became deathly ill in the process, while still tending to the needs/wants of others. I am lucky to have a second chance starting in middle age. I plan to do things differently.
8
At the end of the year of living in Beijing, my husband was honored at a banquet. I was well versed by then, of banquet customs. One by one his co-workers honored him with a toast. At one point I realized I would have to do the unthinkable, as a wife, that I had to stop the process, as I was getting very concerned that he was way over the limit.
So, I committed the crime of losing face, for everyone concerned, apologized and stopped the toasting process. I managed to get him back to the hotel and a very hungover husband got on the plane back to the US in the morning.
51
As a few other commenters have suggested, drinking customs in China probably vary widely by location, profession, generation, and other circumstances. Also, I imagine there are many unspoken rules and principles for handling situations in which you are uncomfortable or unsure what to do.
Way back when, while in graduate school, I taught for a summer in Kyrgyzstan (which borders on China but has a very different culture). We, the visiting teachers, were showered with hospitality, which included big feasts and vodka toasts. But I learned that in some situations women were not expected to drink; they would let their shot glass be filled the first time, but then drink just a drop of it with each toast. In fact, in some settings it was considered improper for women to drink like the men; if you did, you were looked down upon. All of this varied widely by context, though: villages had a different way of life from Bishkek, friends were different from strangers, individuals differed from each other, etc. Beyond that, the hosts went out of their way to celebrate and honor their guests. That was the real point of the feasts.
Probably a lot has changed there over the past twenty-five years, but one thing remains true around the world: there are established (and evolving, and still undiscovered) ways to deal with social pressure, and one can learn or invent them. Goodwill, humor, and kindness go a long way.
43
The drinking custom the author described is ubiquitous across most of China.
2
@Diana Senechal
“...women were not expected to drink; they would let their shot glass be filled the first time, but then drink just a drop of it with each toast.”
I tried that at a nightclub in Edinburgh when I was already nearing my limit while out with friends. But I was met with incredulity among the Scots in the group. “What are you doing?! You’re supposed to drink it all at once, like this [promptly tosses back another shot]. Is this another daft Yank thing?” Ah, the perils of cross-cultural drinking!
5
@left coast finch: thank you for creating such a vivid picture (and sounds too) in a few words!
3
In Tokyo the last train home to often distant suburbs is around midnight. That's when a tsunami of Salarymen in dark suits and white shirts sweeps out of bars and restaurants literally packing alleys, sidewalks, side streets. It's the midnight rush hour for the last train or be stuck in a "business hotel" of stacked tubes or cubicles just big enough to sleep in, or taking a prohibitively costly taxi -- easily over $100.
The experience can be unnerving not just from the flash mob of disheveled suits with shirt collars undone and ties askew, but because the same polite and deferential Salaryman during the day transforms at night into a staggered, red-faced, often belligerent drunk who'll bump into you just for a reaction.
In Japan business is a male domain and the de rigeur after work socializing rarely involves women. You won't spot a "Salary-woman" among the crimson faces stumbling home at midnight.
In China women are well represented in both professions and business. Senior women at banquets when toasted will often raise an empty glass, turn it over after clinking and set it upside down on the table. Message sent. Or instead of challenge toasts, the senior woman will raise an empty glass and then tap the table several times with everyone joining in the group "gam bei" (empty glass).
When China legalized divorce, as many women left their husbands as men did their wives.
Chinese business women are rarely shrinking violets.
128
This article seems surgically designed to paint a Chinese banquet in the worst light possible. Nowhere mentioned is the simple fact that women are almost never asked to drink at such gatherings, unless they have some special role. This is a fact of Chinese life which was conveniently omitted from this tale.
The author's retelling suggests that she mistook for a simple banquet what was really a business negotiation. She complains about drinking but it was assumed by default because she was coming to the table as an equal bargaining partner. She made no attempt beforehand to signal to her counterparts that she did not want to drink. In short, she gave all the signals that she would participate in the ritual, and was shocked when she arrived to find that others expected her to.
21
@Jeffrey Goldstein
I agreed. I have attended many banquets as the only woman because I was the "honored" guests, and it is standard practice the white liquor would be served along with a red wine sweeter than Manischewitz is served. But the older attendees tend to go for white liquor and they will go for many rounds of free booze much as Americans would go for open bars at weddings and other social occasion.
Unlike the US writers, Chinese writers do tend to emphasize quantity because they are paid by number of words, and that is the case for academic research published in scholarly journals or national or regional publishing houses. And as an author of 13 books, the author has "arrived " as a writer, and so no longer feel the need to play the game by turning down potential publisher and to insist that no drinks be served at a banquet in which she is a guest of honor.
Even in Western social functions, neither the hosts nor invited guests who do not drink would rarely insist that no alcoholic drinks would be served at dinners or banquets
4
@Megan
Apparently this "friend" didn't explain to her that this dinner was going to be about business. Which makes no sense. Friends don't go arranging random important business meetings on your behalf without letting you know. Many things don't add up.
I gather she's trying to push some narrative, but the pieces aren't fitting together.
14
I think you are being a little too literal here. The author is using techniques of literary nonfiction, so there will be some changes in events and slight exaggeration, but the integrity of fact still holds up. The author has created a tableau, and she does so quite convincingly. Even if all the facts don’t line up entirely, she presented the tradition, the role of the participants, the role of class, and the imbalance of power between men and women. As a result, the reader learns more about this tradition than if she had documented the event in exact detail.
9
Whenever I read about these sorts of things I’m just happy to be nowhere near any of it. I don’t think I could put up with a roomful of people feeling so self important.
42
I’ve been the “plus one” spouse at numerous banquets like this — even as the wife of the guest of honor. I find the male-centric atmosphere discomfiting, and the drinking tiresome. But at least I getting a pass on drinking. Wives aren’t required to do much of anything, in these situations. Just smile and participate in small talk, when anyone acknowledges you.
25
As an Indian-American, with a fairly different background, I am perplexed. This from the author of thirteen books!
17
@Hasmukh Parekh, why are you puzzled? This is a well written essay.
1
I felt a touch of dishonesty in the story. It seems unlikely that the author really believed she was being set up as "the girl" by her friend, for several reasons: she is not in the age range she herself describes as being typical for "the girl"; she is an accomplished, sought-after author and it would seem incredible that her friend would set her up to meet the director of a publishing house and not mention that and, if he did, then she would immediately know what the banquet was about. Finally, it would be an unlikely friendship indeed if she doesn't know if her friend is setting her up as "the girl" or setting her up for important business meetings. It takes completely different types of friend to do those things, and one would imagine she would have *some* idea about which type her friend is.
70
Seems legit to me. She went back to her old environment and acted the same way, then switched back to her current self.
47
Now she knows what kind of “friend” she has. I can see, sadly, how a woman traumatized as “the girl” (or traumatized in general) can’t shake that identity years later even when she’s successful. People, please do not abuse your authority! It can have lasting consequences!
4
@Rodrigo
There is an additional storytelling trope behind this article: the unreliable narrator.
2
I admire Yan Ge, for what she did and how she brought it to life for us. And I feel sorrow and pain for her, and Ms. Chen, and the commenter who went thru this kind of experience before. But while this was really well written, I wonder why people see this description, with all of its characters and implications, as anything different from what goes on anywhere else at business meetings? If you ever hear (first hand) the stories from Asia old or new hands - meaning the "expat" business types - the arrogance, condescension and self importance that many of them feel entitled to project is every bit the same...It isn't a thing of the past, it really doesn't change with age, as I've heard from someone who taught business English who went on to be a corporate spokesperson for Huawei, having drunk much of the Koolaid along the way
24
I've lived in China for five years and experienced similar drinking, though the context is different. Most of my drinking is with junior colleagues and our factory workers. Sharing toasts with them helps me thank them for all of their hard work. So I make sure I toast everyone at the table, and at a big banquet I toast each of the other tables (one drink per table). If I didn't drink at all, I could avoid this, but since I do drink, I need to play my part. And following this cultural expectation has helped build a very good team at this American owned factory in China.
24
I categorically reject all ceremony at meals. When somebody insists I drink a toast, I flat out refuse (because I don't usually choose to drink). As soon as somebody insists I behave a certain way I don't want to, I insist right back, even stronger. I don't play these social convention games. If a meal is an un-fun ordeal, I just walk right out. In fact I only read about 2 paragraphs of this story before my patience wore out. I'm not going to participate.
64
@Grunchy I'm the same way. I'm considered something of a wet blanket, and don't get invited to many parties.
11
@Grunchy
Agreed. Playing social/business games is silly. Just get to the point if it's business, or relax and have fun if it's social.
I enjoy video games, board games, pen and paper role-playing games...But I can't stand petty social games.
4
@Grunchy While I admire your independence of spirit, what about cultural convention? And being polite to one's host(s)? When in Rome...?
20
Thank you Ms. Yan for this wonderful story. As an American employee of Huawei, now retired, I attended quite a few of these banquets. It didn't occur to me at the time that women might experience the banquet differently.
My fondest memory was the first banquet, in Shenzhen, a gathering of colleagues with whom I'd been working on a project. It was difficult keeping up with the toasts, but by the end of the evening we were taking turns singing in our private dining room. The whole group insisted on walking me back to my hotel, and this was done to the accompaniment of California Dreamin' sung by one of my new colleagues.
Ganbei!
31
I was surprised by all the alcohol that was reportedly drunk in this story. I was recently hosted as a visiting academic at a university in Chungsha and was treated to many excellent dinners, attended mostly by other female academics. The food was delicious but to my disappointment, there was never any alcohol on offer.
When I did finally mention I would enjoy a beer with food, the colleagues seemed surprised and I was sorry I asked. After much consultation, it was decided that I should sit with an older retired lady professor who would be willing to drink with me, and we were brought a vodka cooler to share.
In travelling in China on my own, I’ve enjoyed lots of good local beer, but I guess professional women (academics, anyhow) don’t drink in public? Who knew?
46
@Marlise Horst
It’s been changing a lot over the last decade or so. But it depends on whether there is a ‘deal’ to be done. It also depends on some other factors. Then the alcohol (and other things) will flow seemingly endlessly. And that is not so much a welcome as a test to see what you are like when you have been loosened up and to test how much you will actually loosen up. Getting an invite to a banquet like this, and how you respond, can be a make or break for doing business.
That said, this stuff will also depend on where the boss is. In my experience working in China, South Korea and Japan you don’t immediately, or consistently (or, sometimes, ever) deal directly with the boss - because if he has to say no to you then that would embarrass him, and that can’t happen. So, often, you deal with the second in charge or someone not at the top. These days in China that’s often a guy (it’s usually a male) who has some time at a western university and doesn’t follow the traditional protocol. Those also tend to be younger family men who can’t do the banquet stuff because of their families.
In China I tend to deal with the second in charges, and do lunch banquets (where alcohol is rare because everyone has to go back to work afterwards). As a result I tend to avoid the worst, but when I have been stuck in some of these drinking banquets - whoee - some of what I’ve seen is close to unbelievable and some is unprintable.
7
When I worked in China (ten years), I generally told people that I don't drink. Drinking moderately is a problem -- you can't just toast one person since the others will feel offended.
Went out to dinner one time with a businessman friend and the party secretary of a big state-owned company. When I said that I don't drink, the party secretary looked thrilled. My friend explained "He has to drink all the time at banquets. He is very happy not to drink tonight."
One time a senior official was pressing one of my staff, a devout Tibetan Buddhist, to drink. I had to threaten to walk out to stop him. That worked.
146
Is this why Hong Kong’s Carrie Lim has been such a disaster to her people?
13
You lost me at “Chinese food is irresistibly delicious”
33
@tk
Authentic Chinese food is amazing.
You probably never had a chance to eat it in America.
113
@nh I think you are right. I lived in Singapore for 13 years and never knew until then (even after an upbringing that had me eating "Chinese food" at least 3x per month) how delicate, complex, and delicious Chinese food is. Even the phrase "Chinese food" is a total misnomer. There are dozens of regional varieties. Too bad people like "tk" will never know the difference between Panda Express and actual Sichuanese, Hainanese, Shanghainese, etc., etc. etc. cuisines.
60
@nh I visited Chengdu and toured around Sichuan and had the best "Chinese food" in my life. It is truely the land of one thousands tastes.
26
Does this mean business in China has now become the sole expression of individual freedom, and the only permissible form of self-actualization?
What I mean is, in such stifling political environment (where any existence of independent art forms which would have played a significant role to pull society out of a generalized state of social retardation are forbidden) society is forced to cling only on what is accessible to it, and thereby be limited by it. The point I want to make is that I like the idea of a rising China, I really do; but at the same time, feel uncomfortable that such immense economic and political power is being amassed by a government and people who are readily sold to a future bereft of freedom. I just don't think the accumulation of material wealth alone is good enough; neither to the people of China, nor to the rest of the world.
14
@Daniel Solomon
Not the China I know -- never seen people so relaxed stateside. Come over and find out if you have any PRC contacts who can translated for you how entertaining the exchanges.
Reminds me of America in the 50's when times were good.
5
@Daniel Solomon: Looking at your comment, and others, I'd like to suggest a visit to China. I believe you will come away with a picture different from what you describe here. People don't have the freedoms we have in the US, but this is not a country in a "generalized state of social retardation". You mention art; Shanghai has a vibrant art scene that pushes boundaries. But... everyone in China knows that you don't oppose one party rule or promote separatism. You also can't live where you choose, you need a residence permit. So, less free than the US, ABSOLUTELY YES, but 'bereft of freedom'? I just don't feel that when I visit and talk to people. I invite you to judge for yourself by visiting. As an American, people will want to talk to you (at least that's my experience). See for yourself what it's like. Maybe you'll change your opinion, or maybe not, but you'll have an interesting experience. Airfares to China from the US are a bargain.
27
@Daniel Solomon
I’ve never felt freer than when I’m in China. Going over the border into Hong Kong amd being required to put a seat belt on and drive in a taxi that actually obeys the road rules sometimes feels immensely stifling.
What you have to remember is that ordinary people, for better or worse, often have no interest in politics. So they generally don’t feel the pinch on their ‘freedoms’ - if you said that to most ordinary Chinese they wouldn’t have a clue what you’re talking about.
As a laowai (foreigner)in China you generally get treated extremely well - Chinese culture will kind of compartmentalise you automatically into that favoured caste. So China can feel like a natural high for laowairen.
The ordinary Chinese people often get treated badly. But really is that any worse than how the people of Flint have been treated with their lead contaminated water, or how so many underpaid people in the USA work 5 jobs and still can’t make ends meet?
I’m all in favour of freedoms. Especially for the Chinese people. But right now the USA is demonstrating pretty clearly that freedoms are probably not worth dying for.
24
Glad for your success.
Did you sign with someone in Shanghai?
3
As a 20-something researcher in China, I learned to tell people I couldn’t drink alcohol. I never explained why, just let them assume it was a medical condition. Actually, I still do this. It lets me enjoy the banquets very much. Yum!
This works for me because I don’t drink much, and I can have a lot of fun at a party sober even when others are not.
141
If I was the girl and a prop, then I would dig in and eat the heck away...and give loud burp at the end!
17
Hazing for professionals? Ugh. Peer-pressured drinking is a drag. Especially among people you work with or may work with. I’m relieved for the author that she was able to successfully side step the unwanted drinking and ensuing hangover.
95
Just smile and say no thank you. That will gain you maximum respect. Easy.
5
@Joe - The concept of saving face should be something you learn about. This excellent article gentle informs us readers about the author's experiences in navigating different local cultures while knowing the subtle and different rules of each. "Just say no" itself was an invented conceit invented not that long ago.
5
@Jenny The concept of saving face only benefits the one in power. I prefer, and prefer to be treated, with directness, openness and honesty instead of playing games and trying to read minds.
1
No. Just don’t treat other people like props for you to use. Easy.
1
Ms. Yan must have a lot experience and opportunities to attend Chinese banquets and that's why she is able to write this op-ed. This op-ed makes me feel hungry for Chinese food. I know I am "the girl."
11
I am also in the publishing industry in China.
Such a dinner is indeed inevitable, but compared to the real estate or internet industry , we are already very “gentle”.
At such a banquet, sometimes men are worse, although I am a girl.
40
Thank you for a brilliantly written and horrifyingly accurate account.
107
Seems very normal to me
Wish I could have got to China. I tried to work there begging my employer to send me to our new test lab, later failing to get a job teaching English in China
Oh well at least I am old now and barely drink
I studied China as a child and have several friends there
Cheers!
8
May I recommend, as an antidote to the utter ghastliness of such an affair, the famous - and insanely popular at this very time of the year in Germany and Scandinavia but not in the Britain where it was made fifty-odd years ago - Freddie Frinton and May Warden short movie Dinner For One, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zVd_VLO9xcc The same amount of strong drink consumed, no doubt, but by a cast of only one, with four imagined guests and a butler who gets lucky, sort-of, in the end.
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@simonwinchester Thanks so much your pointer, Simon! Just watched it! Absolutely superb!
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@simonwinchester - Thanks for the memory. I was among a British ex=pat community in the 1980's and this was among many excellent videos they shared. I will happily watch this once again.
Wow! My Chinese wife and I have been to too many banquets over 45 years and we never experienced this kind of banquet. We just ate and ate.
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@Glenn Powell
Drinking is common for men rare for women but no hard rules, if you prefer wine or beer it will soon appear as baijiu is a beast.
What Yan is describing is where everyone offers a toast to you and the numbers mount -- fun will prevail if you can stay upright.
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@Glenn Powell Must mean it never happens.
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Another humiliating trial for authors, male or female, seeking to get published is ensuring they tell the stories that contain narratives their publishers want to push. It seems when it comes to China which - according to the NYT is now in as "systems competition" with the US - Chinese authors seeking a seat at the the Alice Elizabeth Longworth of the American press; Gray Lady's table know what sort of China product leads to the invitation to "come sit by me" - hammering China no matter whether it is politics or culture. "We've got a system's competition to win here."
BTW, Chinese banquets are a mixed bag. As with everything else, it depends on the attendees. Both business and social they are not as rigid dreary, sexist or transactional as the author here sets out they can also be quite joyous, funny enjoyable and inclusive affairs for all. Anyway... speaking of the Pacific pivot and related propaganda pushes, when's the next puff piece on Japanese culture?
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@Belasco My thoughts exactly. as a chinese woman, i have never experienced this type of sexism. it must be particular to the people she knows. imagine, all of china is not one rigid, sexist monolith. but of course the nyt would publish anything that dehumanizes the chinese.
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@Belasco Sorry that should read Alice Roosevelt Longworth apologies for other typos as well. My comments are blocked so often or inordinately delayed. I've gotten careless.
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@Winnie Zhang
Hi Winnie, "Chinese would publish anything that dehumanizes the Chinese - looking at their China coverage that seems to be the plan doesn't it? Sadly though, if the comments are any indication, they seem to have developed an eager audience for it. We are saps getting primed for conflict.
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china is big. the article seems to be an oversimplification and over-generalization.
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@zw I don't recall reading in this piece a claim about the article's general truth claims regarding China as a whole.
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Its an anecdote. Sheesh.
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@zw I've been to just a few banquets in China, and none at the level described here. However, based on my experience, this anecdote applies broadly and accurately. Thank goodness I don't drink at all. Baiju is basically kerosene with a liquor label from what others have told me.
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I had a Chinese instructor surnamed Yan. She wrote it up on the board and asked the class to identify the character. I said, "It's the 'yan' in the word 'strict'." She said, "Shuo de tai dui! [That's exactly right!]"
Chinese culture is baffling.
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@Richard Of course to you it is baffling. To many other USA culture [as Gandhi said: It would be nice] is baffling. ALL cultures are baffling. Until you get past the surface --
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@Richard
American culture is baffling
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And we think America is sexist.
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@Snowball People who think America is sexist (comparatively speaking, obviously) either don't know much about the world or choose to ignore it.
Very much like a Banquet in the movie of Crazy Asian, well written.
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This article is fantastically useful. Now if I ever turn into a successful young female novelist and get invited to a Chinese banquet, I'll know exactly what I need to know. Unless the banquet also includes unicorns. What if there are unicorns, Ms. Yan? Clearly a follow-up guide is needed.
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As a student of Acupuncture in the mid 80's, I went to a number of Chinese Banquets in NYC, Chinatown in those years. These were usually part of an academic event, conference or similar annual gathering of many mostly non-Chinese attendees, along with numerous Chinese teachers and practitioners. It seems I was a total innocent as none of what is described in this article was going on...as much as I was aware, or remember. Maybe the academic flavor of the reason for the banquet was protective in itself. I don't think business deals were being forged, but..who knows? I just recall endless dishes of wonderful food, a fair amount of smoking at the table which always disturbed me, and plenty of assorted alcoholic drinks available, if desired. Please pass the Sea Bass with Scallions, please.
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The drinking of white liquor ( a version of Chinese Vodka) is more of a northern style drink usually only served at banquets. and I think many at Chinese business banquets may well drink to the excess because both the food and drinks are "free" or paid for by the organizations, and White liquor such as mao tai is more expensive than wine.
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@Elizabeth In my experience (mainly in northern China), when baijiu is present the experience is much more serious. With beer or wine, you have a friendlier atmosphere. When I first went to China in 1999, I thought they were just kidding about the toasting and drinking competition. I soon found out they weren't kidding, and did my best to avoid these banquets, though not always successfully. As recently as my 2018 trip, they were still tracking my liquor consumption during these events, trying to find my breaking point. Not my favorite part of the culture, which I admire in many other respects.
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@burfordianprophet
"...I thought they were just kidding about the toasting and drinking competition..."
It's even worst in the Wedding. I stick to I don't drink policy.
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"“Thank you,” I said. As soon as the words came out, I realized I’d done something wrong: I should have delivered an answer that was more deferential, one that showed more recognition of his position."
You've been Americanized. It works well in America, but, not so much in China, it seems.
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@Mike: Sounds like it worked just fine in China!
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This was incredible, Yan Ge! The strength you showed in this situation - in saving 'the girl' and washing away what seemed a painful episode in your past - was shocking. I was left thinking 'I can't believe she actually did that!' As a woman in both science and the tech industry I've been in so many situations over my lifetime where I felt forced to go along with something with which I was uncomfortable. What a great example of use (not abuse!) of your power.
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Couldn’t agree more! This was a brilliant piece of writing, and made me admire Yan quite a bit by the end of it.
No surprise that cultures are more similar than we like to believe.
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Thanks so much for sharing this experience. Interesting to read as I've never been to a Chinese banquet. As a female who is in a more powerful role than you had at past banquets, I'm glad you were able to influence the evening & make it more enjoyable for you. Sounds like it was a more productive evening for Little Chen also. Great essay.
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As a woman on British trade missions, the British - not known for being lightweights in drinking - would game plan our drinking strategy for formal dinners we were having. As a woman, I was often a target. I set my boundaries early, stuck to alcohol I could handle and trusted the group strategy to provide protection.
One particularly memorable lunch, we were tasked with protecting two colleagues who were due to go into contract negotiations with their counterparts that afternoon. Their counterparts were nowhere to be seen. Instead of the usual beer/wine combos we'd get at banquets, only spirits were available. Our hosts were determinatedly trying to toast the negotiators. We were just as determinatedly offering ourselves up in their place while offering toasts to our hosts in turn.
It worked. The negotiators remained functioning. Whatever I was drinking turned out to be a cure for the common cold. But only once I'd survived one of the worst hangovers of my career....
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After reading this, I am left with a desire for a peaceful dinner alone in a nice, quiet restaurant.
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@Errol I'm left with feelings of amazement and pity at the painful, exhausting social games that Chinese people play.
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I love this. But now I’m really hungry!
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The best invention of the binge-drinking Brits for occasions such as this in any culture: the TC or “tactical chunder” (or just “a tactical”) - as described by the author, a quick trip to the rest room while you are still able, to purge as much as you can before you get alcohol poisoning.
Come to think on it, didn’t the Romans have the vomitorium supplied with pheasant feathers for this purpose? So, maybe not a new invention, nor confined to one culture. Oy.
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Dear, @Relle, a "vomitorium" has nothing to do with purging one's innards who has drunk to excess. If you've ever visited a futbol arena, i suspect you've invariably used a vomitorium. Although not in the sense you are thinking.
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In the theatre, it’s called a “vom”—short for vomitorium. Like the exit in a sports stadium, to which you refer—same structure. Both derive from Roman vomitorium—for exiting the banquet to “empty your stomach” so to speak, so you could return and eat more. Not how we use a “vom” today at a futbol match, or in an arena style or thrust theatre, but that’s where the term comes from.
I attended many dinners that were the Japanese version of this. (I don't tend to compare these two cultures, but this tradition sounds painfully similar.)
As a young, foreign woman I was subjected to so much abuse at these events. Men had fistfights about me right over my head, tweaked my breasts, brought me along to live sex shows unknowingly, and groped me several times.
These were high-level, government affairs. Despite the excellent food, they were the absolute low point of living in East Asia for a few years. I am still distressed at the thought of them thirty years later.
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@A Little Grumpy sad that you had to go through this, it is outrageous! This should change, the woman should stop being a prop for these males.
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So many stereotypes and superficial judgments here.
The way to survive a Chinese Banquet is to not go at all.
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@Bill B You might want to read the whole article before judging the author. She did not know in advance that this was a Chinese Banquet:
"I didn’t need to check the faces of the guests who had already been seated to know that I had been tricked. This was not a casual dinner — what we call a fan in Sichuan, which means rice, indicating a gathering mainly for the purpose of food consumption. This was a xi — a banquet."
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@Bill B Under many circumstances, it would be rude to refuse. Your potential client or ally may take your refusal as a rude slap in the face. Also, I have worked in small villages or among working class city folk where the the people I met insisted on honoring me with a banquet. Sometimes they worked very hard, often they were just proud to show me their local foods and traditions. It’s a lot, but it can also be lovely. As I said above, I just tell people I can’t drink alcohol.
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@Teacher H when I studied in Russia, the orientation book for our program had all sorts of tips for avoiding peer pressure to drink to excess. One of the more popular tips was to tell your hosts that you had an ulcer. The Soviets must have wondered why so many Americans had ulcers :-)
What a very interesting read. Coming from a long time overseas Chinese community, good food is in most cases as (if not even more) important than alcohol as a social lubricant at banquets. Even though you will be encouraged to drink, it is much more gentle than what is pictured here (unless the business meal is at a karaoke bar or other such places). This shows there are nuances among the different (Chinese) communities.
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So a banquet for six would have 720 toasts which sounds semi lethal, but a banquet for twelve would have 479,001,600, which would be rather impressive to say the least.
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@Hugh Crawford Aren't those numbers 15 and 66 respectively instead? When there are 6 people, the total number of toasts, considering two people toasting at a time, is C (6, 2), which is (6 x 5)/2 = 15. For 12 people, (12 x 11)/2 = 66.
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Very Interesting article on how the Chinese culture is different from the West. Many times i have wonder how theses meetings take place and what are the norms of business.
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@Raul
Different?!
Urge you to reflect on the parallels — the sexism, the patronizing attitudes of the male elites, the subservience of women, the physical unwanted touching, the group norms sustaining abhorrent behavior, etc.
The norms are sadly all too familiar.
Congratulations on a well written essay and on sticking with your principals! Very interesting to learn more about your culture. I remember a very good and enlightening movie from several years ago, “The Wedding Banquet”, where the bride and groom were required to go around and toast every table at a huge Chinese wedding. At the time it sounded horrific to me, this only reinforced that opinion.
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@Stefanie The movie was made in 1993. Times have changed since then. At the last wedding banquet that I attended, the bride and groom visited every table, and greeted and thanked every guest - there were toasts but no one tossed back a whole drink. It's different at a business meeting in China, which this article reflects well.
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@Stefanie
"Congratulations on a well written essay"? The author is a novelist with 13 books and counting.
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@Stefanie i can't even... horrific indeed.
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What an illuminating story. Thank you for the opportunity to learn something about a culture I know little about. I wasn't familiar with you before. And now, I'd like to read your books.
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As a (male) Chinese-speaking foreigner, I spent much of my career as a consultant helping Western and Chinese organizations work together. In so doing, I drank my way through many such blurry banquets. Fortunately, there is another rule that the elderly are not subject to competitive drinking, so as soon as I turned 59 I started announcing “I'm old, I can't drink baijiu anymore, let us drink grape wine instead.” After that, no one left hungry :-)
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Isn’t it remarkable how cultural norms are treated as ironclad? Be it the objectification of women, or the (mis)characterization of alcohol as a social lubricant, so many traditions could really be revisited. And it doesn’t require a seismic effort - just small acts of bravery going against the grain, like suggesting drinking tea, or moving to a different spot at the table. Others will be glad that someone was the first to take the initiative, and they can be encouraged to do similarly.
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@NM
In China young defer to the old, weak to the powerful, women to men, worker to boss, etc. as an inviolable fact of social interaction and cohesion. Strict rules of social decorum are the rule to cement community. This is Confuciusism and to not adhere to it by walking away is unthinkable. Reflexively applying Western notions of "woke" is a fail.
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@AG
Perhaps, but a little revolution now and then aimed at displacing rules which are quite unpleasant to some, replacing them with rules enjoyed by all or at least more, might even go a long way to deepening ties, social cohesion, and satisfaction with life.
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@AG
So chauvinism is okay as long as it’s in a non-Western culture? Sorry, that makes no sense.
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