Basic Impeachment Facts to Keep Handy for Holiday Discussions

The GOP defense seems to be prevent people from seeing the forest for the trees. I.e., trying to figure out whether Zelensky actually "felt pressured," claiming a little thing like a phone call isn't an impeachable offense, etc. Big picture: Trump has repeatedly encouraged and enlisted foreign aid to help him cheat in presidential elections, then tried to block legitimate investigations into his actions. If his hands were clean, he and his party could have easily explained why he did the things he did, which are well-documented. Instead, they go rambling off down rabbit holes about who the whistleblower is and all sorts of other distractions from the big picture. Zoom out, folks, zoom out.

“President Trump conditioned official acts — a White House meeting desperately desired by the new Ukrainian president and critical U.S. military assistance — on Ukraine announcing sham, politically motivated investigations that would help President Trump’s 2020 re-election campaign.” Typical of Democratic messaging this is an inadequate characterization of Trump's crime. At a minimum it should be stressed that what Trump was trying to do was use another country (again) to dishonestly subvert the US presidential election. "Look, if I believed everything the Democrats are saying, I would still say this isn’t an impeachable offense,” Representative Tom Cole, Republican of Oklahoma, said in an interview this month. Cole inadvertently left out the key part of his argument. As a public service, I added it for him below. " ...because I'm a Republican and I don't believe in free and fair elections. That's why we Republicans spend so much time and effort disenfranchising likely Democratic voters."

Anyone who wants to know if there is evidence that the Ukrainians felt pressured, should watch the interview of Zelensky and Trump at the UN. Zelensky sounded most sincere when his first response to the subject of investigations was that he didn't want to get involved in domestic US politics. The rest of his statement sounds like a hostage statement that led him to say there was no pressure, which Trump immediately repeated. Clearly Zelensky was and still is under pressure.

"To impeach?" is not the question; but rather, "did Trump commit treason?" If convicted, punishment should be at least the same as meted out to other convicted traitors. He conspired to weaken a potential ally against an undeclared U.S. enemy. Russia was also an undeclared enemy In 1953, when the Rosenbergs were executed.

Yeah, there I go into a Thanksgiving debate with a Trumptard who is holding a large carving knife. Certainly, nothing will go wrong there. Not into debating while eating. Something about indigestion and attempting to enjoy a holiday where you are supposed to be thankful. Not going to persuade them and they won't be persuading me either. In fact not going to dine with anyone who is a "Putin Patriot".

Since this Keystone Kops episode could indeed spell the end of Thomas Jefferson's Democratic Party, this destructive past three-year-period needs to be addressed. The Democrats were so enraged that The Entitled One managed to lose her crowning ceremony that they abandonedall issues that apply to the workers and their family lives - job availability, safe schools, safe neighborhoods, and so forth. At the same time, the Foisterers - the 90% of the news media that plays strictly progressive politics - saw many closures and thousands of jobs lost because advertisers realized people never trusted newspapers anymor, and bailed on print media. The CNNs of the world - print and electronic - went to simple bias confirmation as their key to staying afloat even though they were surrendering enough viewers/readers to elect a president, and their content reading levels dropped 3 to 6 grade levels IMHO. The advent of emotion-only politics ushered in The Squad which turned male leaders of Congressional Committees into panderers of the basest sort, and such people could never even put on a credible reason to vote oppositon leaders out of office beyond rawest emotions. Both major parties have been changed by the Obama-Hillary era and its aftermath, but we can only be sure that the GOP will survive in recognizable form.

"Is the inpeachment process preventing Congress from getting other things done?" According to this article everything being kind of stuck has more to do with polarization and divided government ... . NO! It has more to do with Mitch McConnell refusing to bring any bill already passed by the House before impeachment up to the Senate floor. He also says he will not bring up any bill the House passes up for a vote if Trump says he will veto it. This is a Republican coup that will be blamed on the House doing its constitutional duty to oversee the executive branch.

Was a time when I’d feel a bit homesick on Thanksgiving. Now, pieces like this remind me to be thankful that I live 10,000 km from my Fox watching, Trump loving, impossible to enjoy a meal with, crazy relatives.

There is no conversation to be had. Enough Dems have wanted Trump impeached since he was elected but especially after Charlottesville that facts no longer matter. The confusion about the difference in meaning between Impeach and convicted hasn't helped. When people talk facts, Trumpers hear overturn 2016. Let it go and vote in 2020. Then we can resume talking about the Chosen One.

At some point the NYT should argue that whether Trump himself knew or directed any of this corruption is irrelevant!! His direct staff knew and directed it: his chief of staff, the Sec of State and his personal attorney. So either he did direct them and he should be removed from office, or he has chosen to surround himself with and allows the country to be served by corrupt players who prove that his leadership is fatally flawed. We don’t need to prove that Trump gave the direct order. They all did it, it was done in his name, and under his watch. If Trump was truly against what happened he could have fired them all as soon the news hit and said they went rogue. Instead just the opposite, he can’t fire them because if he does they will tell everyone how he did know/direct all of this. Still, proving that doesn’t matter: on his watch, so his responsibility.

The Times is overestimating what people know. Most people I talk to do not understand the difference between "impeach" and "convict".

“because house democrats decided...“ Could you frame it more like a republican talking point if you tried? There are tons of witnesses, some with first hand knowledge, some with what the Republicans called hearsay... there was Trump's hand picked donor-turned-ambassador... Why on earth would the whistleblower - who's identity is protected by law - have been a relevant witness at that point? This false balancing of facts against lies will go a long way towards reelecting the Don...

My family are Republicans AND former military and for some strange reason they love Trump. I cannot reason with them. It turns almost into a brawl. I have decided to stay home alone. I will watch comedy DVD's, pop popcorn, and relax. It's a better thing to do for myself instead of getting a headache listening to the shouting and why Obama was such a bad President according to them. I loved Obama and felt he could have accomplished much good for this country if the Republicans had not decided to derail him at every turn. Even their own healthcare bill. Starting to get upset now, so I will instead begin to relax.

Ask your relatives, the ones who don't follow news and think it's all overblown, whether going out of your way to help countries that want to undermine our democracy is OK. Because the impeachment isn't just about investigating Biden. Trump wanted Ukraine to say they would investigate how Ukrainians, not Russians, hacked Democrats in 2016, how Ukrainians, not Russians, attacked Clinton online, how Ukrainians, not Russians, funneled DNC emails to Wikileaks. This sounds too bizarre, right? Who cares? After all, Trump says no one tried to help him in 2016. Treason is providing aid and comfort to enemies. If enough people believed Ukraine, not Russia, put thumbs on the 2016 election scale, Russia might be let off the hook. Heavy sanctions on Putin and Putin's cronies, some of whom Trump may owe money, could be lifted. That's giving comfort to a country that acts against America, attacks American allies, promotes controversy that undermines American interests. Presidents may have lied to promote what they saw as US interests. No US President, not Bush, not Obama, not Johnson, not Nixon, not Roosevelt, not Eisenhower, lied to undermine US interests. Do your relatives want their votes to count? That's what Trump is playing with.

I appreciate the fine Journalism of the New York Times. I urge the NYT to keep up the Good Fight against the wanna-be emperor that lies and cheats and corrupts and steals and does just the worst things imaginable.

Will the Democrats chicken out if they start to think they're helping re-elect Trump? Yes.

Can’t The House order any elected or appointed US Official to appear before it and give sworn testimony into governmental matters it is investigating? And further if subpoenaed witnesses refused, hold them in contempt and arrest them? If they have such power why does The House not exercise this power option instead of using the Courts? Please explain, after all The Congress has and can impeach & remove judges!

One question omitted: Is it a good idea to move forward on impeachment when most current polls show the country is against impeachment and when the evidence presented has not resulted in causing any bipartisan support for impeachment and it is highly likely the President will be acquitted in the Senate trial?

Beg your proTrump persons to seek critical reasoning skills. Our democratic way of life is at stake along with our descendants’.

Seriously, anyone who bring up politics knowing that people are likely to disagree at the dinner, is a jerk. Know how to be a conversationalist, which doesn't mean trying to upset people or demonstrating what you think you know about topics.

If your holiday conversation is amongst participants for whom facts actually exist and matter, then it's a very short conversation as there is ample, overwhelming evidence that Trump and his administration were engaged in extortion, and obstruction to cover it up. However, as we have learned by now, there is a sizable minority that exist inside the Russia/GOP/Fox bubble, and they have their "alternate facts", which conveniently contradict everything that is so nicely laid out in this piece. By now, I hope it should be obvious to everyone that reasoned discussion with this group is pointless.

Would these talking points help the 2018 Democrats in Trump voting districts, who are now home, in town halls? For, by all accounts, they are really, really desperate.

Churches used to put out, at the exit, talking points about faith. For the benefit of parishioners who were not blessed with the gift of thinking.

Lots of presumed, may be , and thought. No incontrovertible evidence to overturn election.

You left out a few and thanks for any help with the answers: Which Republican politician was most convincing with their false claims the hearings? Which witness caused Trump to tweet the most? Which country likes Trump more, Ukraine or Russia? Thank you for your help with answering these challenging and important questions!

O glorious New York Times! This is more useful than a Thanksgiving Turkey hotline! A fabulous idea for a piece - Bravo, Alicia and editors! Perhaps by Christmas you can also provide a crisis line, where a phalanx of unflappable therapists can conference both sides into the call, cheerily forestalling permanent family ruptures.

I spent more than 30 years (from the late 50s to the mid-80s) going to a huge annual family gathering on Thanksgiving Day of my mother family--her parents and 9 siblings and my ever-expanding number of cousins (and later on THEIR wives and THEIR children). This was in upper east Tennessee. Not a liberal part of the country, quite a bit different back in the day than it is now. I don't recall any major kurfuffles (I was a small child when it started) over the years. Most of my uncles and aunts were Southern Democrats--and we know what that means. We all seemed to get along but the gap seems to be widening between then and now. I suspect that most of my cousins (based on their Facebook feeds) now are Trump supporters, and like quite a few older white people are longing for the "good ole days" of segregation and people "knowing their place." I do recall one uncle with a license plate on the front of his car with a demeaning picture and a quote about "going all the way" with LBJ. These sorts of prejudices die hard. Thank goodness I don't have to endure that any more. This year it will be just me and my wife, and a visit from my two adult children. A Happy Thanksgiving.

The bottom line: Crimes are crimes, no matter who commits them. No person is above the law.