Impeachment and removal will make the Dems happy for a moment, but the consequences will be manifest for generations. The Repubs and about 1/2 the country will forever decry the deep state and the conspiracy to remove a democratically elected president. The next dem president will be under an onslaught of hearings, investigations, inquiries that will then carry over into the next and next presidencies. If DT is removed, no, there will not be a civil war, but there will be an overall increase in random violence that will escalate on both sides. The polarization will make today's schism look like child's play. Better to beat this guy at the ballot box. If the dems can't do that then they must face the consequences of four more years. Anyway, a second term DT, a lame duck, will have little to no power to do anything, anyway. And like Dylan once wrote "Swallow your pride, you will not die, it is not poison." The dems should follow his advice.
29
@boji3 Umm, you do realize that the republicans spent most of the Obama presidency doing exactly what you described they will do it DT is removed. I would prefer them to stand for the constitution, for the rule of law, then worry about what is politically expedient.
23
@boji3 -
I see things just a bit differently.
First, will a Democrat win the 2020 election? If they do, do they keep the House? Do they takeover the Senate? Both of those decide what sort of hearings and inquiries will happen.
Whether there were an impeachment inquiry or not, I expect that, if a Democrat won the presidency in 2020, and Republicans controlled at least one part of Congress, the next four years would be full of Republican posturing and attacking the Democratic President in whichever House they controlled. How many Benghazi hearings were held? After the first couple, the rest were just a Republican abuse of power to tarnish Secretary Clinton that seems to have succeeded. So why wouldn’t they continue with such tactics? I can foresee questioning the next Democratic administration on why they bought Charmin toilet paper, instead of the cheaper Angel Soft.
How many hearings did the Democrats hold about the declaration by the White House about WMDs in Iraq after the 2006 election? Between 2003 and 2006, Democrats were forced to hold meetings dealing with being misled about WMDs in the basement of the Capitol Building, while at the same time, Republicans were up in arms about the Terri Schiavo case.
13
@boji3
Our democracy is at a crossroad and to ignore the facts
and give DT a pass is not acceptable.
23
Look at good ol' Garland there. Folks like him (old, white) see the country changing (for the better) and his chagrined face says it all.
24
@Leading Cynic
Don't crawl down to Trump's level by criticizing anyone's age or color.
8
This is a lie! Americans aren't moving towards removal or impeachment. These very Americans are just as likely to cheat their customers or steal from their co-workers or cheat on whatever. They love Trump, the cheater, because he validates their cheating behavior.
19
‘Why are you engaged in this when my prescription drug bill has gone up, my health care is uncertain, my job doesn’t pay very well, my kid’s got student debt?’ ” -- That's what's so frustrating; that's just another reason to never vote for Republicans -- and don't even give me any of that about how nothing will get done with impeachment underway. At what point has Trump ever addressed any of these issues? At what point has Moscow Mitch done anything other than crush bills that reach his desk?
I'll offer a few more observations. You'll never convince Republicans. Genocide won't turn the average Trump supporter. Wake up. A majority of Republicans still think Obama was born in Africa, that Trump had a bigger crowd, and that Trump never mentioned Biden in that infamous call, DESPITE TRUMP ADMITTING IT! I recently had a convo with a Trump supporting family member, and he's convinced it's a hoax, and that Trump never withheld aid or pressured Zelensky to investigate. Republicans literally see contrary evidence as further evidence of a "deep state" or some other conspiracy. And it's not even really a matter of intelligence; it's emotion. They're willing to ignore reality, and pretend that they and the Supreme Leader are one, because it makes them feel good. As long as Trump is causing pain for brown people, white Repubs will remain in lockstep. How do we fix this? I don't know, but I suggest going full bore with impeachment. Let the Repubs put their names on treason.
9
How about you go to a decent diner? Say, one in Santa Monica or in Berkeley, California? And talk to those people. Or do they not count?
4
"Winston Churchill once famously observed that Americans will always do the right thing, only after they have tried everything else." I think we are getting there.
3
The media has an uncanny way of stretching and distorting the facts to fit their narrative. The issue in the Ukraine involved NO quid pro quo and as factually presented was nothing more than Trump's request that Ukraine look into any wrong doing regarding the 2016 election as well as the Biden's involvement in the Ukraine. Let's stop the nonsense and move our country forward.
I am all for the Public Divide on impeachment growing wide. I Do NOT want to be considered to be on the same side as Garland Gentry, Holly Mydland and Diane Segura. They all enable this ongoing mess to continue. Their reasons they provide are flimsy.
So count me on the other side of this Great Divide. I know right from wrong and won't accept what's wrong just to avoid the consequences.
5
trump's misleading Nuremberg rallies aside, NYT, WP, WSJ, even FOX, churning out continuous congenital trump crime breaking, a true silent majority emerging eventually generating bandwagon affect leading to not only Impeachment but removal.
5
your lips to God's ear hopefully
3
It’s terrifying that some of these people have the vote, given their willful ignorance.
7
I don’t care about the opinions of uninformed and ill-informed and uneducated citizens. Instead of trying to change their thinking, focus on getting your own points across and your own side out and involved.
8
The people that still support this corrupt, lying criminal, bring to mind a "Deep Thought" from SNL years back.
"If you drop your keys in a river of molten lava, let them go. They're gone."
The people who still support Trump are gone. No need to try and get them back.
9
@David We do so at our own risk. These are dangerous people, as we can see with the mess they have created. And continue to create.
Ignore them at your own risk.
3
Trump is just not a good person overall. He's very disrespectful, conniving, crooked, not nearly intelligent enough to be President, plays dirty, has no feeling for the less fortunate. I cannot think of 1 really positive thing he has done for the people of our country. His personal wealth takes priority over the good of the country. He doesn't even get invited to funerals or weddings. And this is just the minor stuff. We need a leader who is also kind and has a good heart and understands our Constitution..
14
In Kansas City, Missouri today there was a small group of protesters on a main road through the Country Club Plaza area with “Honk if you want to impeach Trump” signs. The honking of drivers in support of impeachment was relentless, even in this red state. 😀
16
If there is corrupt practice you pursue it. Otherwise anarchy rules and your system of government becomes a banana republic.
7
‘Donnie Johnston, a newspaper columnist who voted for Mr. Trump but has since soured on him, said Democrats are right to look into the president’s effort to pressure the leader of Ukraine to dig up dirt on political rivals. Mr. Trump, he said, makes “a wonderful tyrant but he’s a miserable president.”’
All the signs were there foretelling his miserable presidency. It’s sad that there are so many people willing to go to astonishing lengths to convince themselves of the incredible. Or to put it another way, “There sure are a lot of suckers out there.”
10
The number and quality of atrocities committed by Trump are not only abundant but extraordinarily large. If he is not tried for this then fold up the Constitution and toss it in the garbage as all else is worthless. Not only should he be impeached, he and his cohorts including McConnell, Giuliani, his family, etc., should be tried on RICO charges and if guilty, stripped of their wealth and tossed in prison for the rest of their lives. The damage done to this country is irreparable.
12
Impeachment is a loser for Democrats. It's all negative all the time. And the accusations are confusing and tiring. Folks just walk away, decide there's blame on both sides and eventually dismiss it as just more political blather.
Better that Democrats would find real problems to solve rather than stinking up the place with what seems like unveiled Trump hatred. Today's editorial is a good start.
3
@Michael Dowd I am sorry to hear that you find that "the accusations are confusing and tiring." Perhaps some rest would help before you try to understand what is going on.
"
When you write that "folks just walk away, decide there's blame on both sides and eventually dismiss it as just more political blather" do you mean folks like you. Is it that confusion and tiredness at work. Try napping and then see if your ability to think becomes available.
7
@Michael Dowd It's only "confusing" to morons. Which I admit includes almost all Trump supporters.
8
So in the midst of ever rising sentiment for impeachment the NYT finds a way to distract focus from the opinion of the public and at the same time feed their insatiable addiction to false equivalence yet again. (Keep them Trump brownie points coming).
4
There are so many things trump has done that are impeachable that the only difficult thing is to figure out where to start.
Muller punted the Russia issue to Congress. Ukraine. The general corruption. Empty (and full) rooms in the trump hotels rented by foreign governments. Obstruction.
Treating the constitution like toilet paper and not upholding his oath to preserve and protect it. He should be impeached and removed.
7
Per your Constitution, The House is intended to serve as smoke detector, fire sprinkler and firefighters. In that order. Clearly you guys need to get your house in order.
4
The real issue is that after he is impeached we still have to live with the 60 million people who were okay with his racism and misogyny and the millions who are prepared to vote for him again in 2020.
9
Donald Trump should be held accountable for actions he has directly and indirectly commissioned. His actions are not a "hoax" nor are they allowed in American Government.
Wake up people and *honestly* smell Trump's actions for what they are.
5
Re oft-mentioned sentiments such as "Why are you engaged in this (impeachment inquiry) when my prescription drug bill has gone up...": The Dems need to get the word out that the House has passed a slew of bills to address such problems... bills that are now somewhere between a far corner of McConnell's desk and his wastebasket.
13
ding ding! we have a winner!
4
Trump tried to extort our allies in Ukraine by appearing to trade Congressional approved military aid for help in his re-election campaign.
This only should result in the impeachment and removal of Donald Trump.
Beyond that, Trump betrayed and endangered the lives of Kurdish troops who fought and died beside our troops, in some cases offering them protection from harm.
This dishonors our country and leaves all countries who have been our allies no longer able to trust the United States of America.
At this point with Trump as president, the only country that can trust the United States as a reliable ally is Vladimir Putin's Russia.
This is disgusting beyond words.
Trump has broken our country and we must remove him from office.
We must face the fact that one lunatic did this and that we must all rebuild our democracy from scratch after we have saved our country from him.
5
To an outsider it seems pretty obvious that, at best, you've got a crass, incoherent, and rash incumbent in the Whitehouse.
At worst you've got a lying, despotic, demagogue (and probably a criminal) as President.
And yet 40+% support him.
The problem, as illustrated by this article, is clearly an ill-informed electorate. Propaganda works. Putin laughs. And the U.S. has bigger problems than just Trump. There's no easy way out and there's a lot of work to do. The rest of the world is beginning to doubt that you are up to the task.
Good luck!
7
we have a saying in this country "Arm Chair Quarterback" look it up. you're doing it now. we've got this. dont underestimate my country.
Finding Three folks of varying opinion in a diner does not “the shifting tides“ make.
7
Article is well written, but question to respondents should have been that when u weigh good things TRUMP has done against an inquiry which millions regard as "coups fourres," dirty tricks, since a vote of entire House has not been taken, where do you come down?1 wonders if articles like this, strictly partisan, r not an effort to gin up support for a measure that left regards as the only way to get Trump, since so many millions of us, despite his bizarre behavior at times, support him!It is the coastal elites versus we the masses, and Times newspaper's relentless attacks on him and his supporters r unfair, unethical.Although writer is talented, sounds like she's coming from the"inner sanctum of the elite"which do not wish us well. WE, "in between folks,middle and working classes who finally have 1 of our own in the Oval Office. Trump may be a billionaire, but he identifies with us, which accounts for his charm, charisma. Dem. pollsters are not formulating the right questions in their random samplings.Another question might have been "Do you think Pelosi should be focusing on the homeless problem in her c.d. in SF and throughout the state, rather than on impeachment to delegitimize a duly elected president?All depends on how questions r asked, and many respondents, if asked to define impeachment and then asked does a simple phone call to Ukraine head of state meet standard of high crimes and misdemeanors would, in my view, answer negatively.
1
@Alexander Harrison Ummm, there are "masses" more of "coastal elites" than of Trump supporters. And while the House continues to work to solve this country's problems, ol' Mitch refuses to allow the Senate to even consider the bills passed by the House, much less vote on them. And yes, "impeachment" is to get rid of a president who has been elected (putting aside Trump's help from the Russians and James Comey). (Note: how can someone possible think this moronic blowhard "in his unmatched wisdom" [!] has "charm" or "charisma"? Amazing.)
3
When I observe the "rally" attendees, I lose all interest in what their "views" are.
10
Culpeper is a wonderful place in all but its good ole boy, ultra-conservative Republican politics: but times are changing. As I see it, the greatest challenge to a democracy the size of the US is keeping the focus for the electorate. It is all too big, too fragmented -as the woman teaching special needs children in cockroach-infested trailers reported. However, I think that is an impossible task and not sure of the solution. For my 2 cents, the problem is a fairly simple one: preserve the principles of the US Constitution, even those that have not yet arrived at their full intention. Trump does not embody that idea, is a self-promoting demagogue who has been extremely clever in identifying the emotional needs of some of those who are underserved and want an easy solution. He is a master at distraction and perpetuating the fragmented thinking and relies on divisiveness rather than unity and cohesion. It works emotionally but will only destroy the country in the long run. Can the people see it? Obviously, some do and some do not. If we are wedded to the principles of the US Constitution and the betterment of all Americans, there is only one solution: tighten our belts, keep a pleasant song in our hearts and rid this nation of the poisonous tyrant!! We will figure out how to repair the damage.
7
No. We have to stay focused. We really don’t have the luxury to worry about the American divide — perceived or otherwise — at this point. Division is a natural result of the chaos Trump has created. But just as with Nixon, the public divide is worse right before the clouds clear from the eyes of the defiant. We’re already seeing people wake from their hypnosis. So we need to just let the divide be while we carry on with the business of relentlessly exposing the corruption, lies and crimes of Trump and his circle of Russian assets, adult children, traitors, tax dodgers, co-conspirators, criminals, and corrupt minions.
3
The Trump supporter claims it's “another in a long line of hoaxes,”
We would have better counter arguments to that foolishness if it weren't that the Times and the Democ4atic elite are so willing to put their thumb on their own scale to support Warren. Rigging this primary season against anyone who doesn't fit their preferred narrative - having learned nothing in 2016 - is killing the party and embarrassing us all. The Clinton emails have been much discussed but little read, maybe because their release was via the Russian hackers, but poisoned fruit or not, the emails showed that the Times and the DNC were deliberately favoring Clinton. In 2020 we're doing it all again. Biden doesn't have any more chance than Walter OMalley had in 16. He doesn't fit the urban/campus elites preference. Warren (or AOC) does. I hope Warren beats Trump but I miss fairness and I believe a moderate Democrat would do a better job governing and would more easily beat Trump.
2
Has anyone noticed that the audience sitting behind Trump on camera at his last two rallies contain young kids certainly not of voting age? That sickens me that they are getting brainwashed so young, cheering at his nasty, abusive remarks. I fear for the future.
One genius fan told a reporter, “I saw the transcript of the conversation with the Ukrainian President but I didn’t read it.”
Do any of them wonder why all the secrecy with the tax returns and phone calls?
Our soldiers in Syria are under attack right now because of trump’s foreign policy based on tabloid news and greed and soon thousands will be sent to Saudi Arabia. More secret deals with dictators?
Do his defenders even think about the future?
7
In a lengthy recent interview, Hillary Clinton said Trump had violated "judicial orders."
Is that true? I've never heard that.
1
Honestly I'm just so tired of the daily drum of chaos. I wasn't happy that he was elected but I thought, "ok, let's see...". And it's been downhill since. An impeachment inquiry is justified but we gotta vote him out of office. I mean c'mon people...VOTE!
1
Finally the good guys are winning.
3
“Stop the Madness” campaign? Seems like the Democrats could use this slogan appropriately!
2
What is still baffling is this notion that Trump can be removed from office in an election in 2020. Trump said, when he was a candidate in 2016, that he wouldn’t commit to honoring the election results if he lost. I want to bang my head against the wall when I hear people speak as if he’s just going to accept a loss in 2020. After all we know about his abuses of power, his horrible behavior and his willingness to burn the house down, how is this even a question in (sane) people’s minds? Sadly, if the Senate Republicans stand with him throughout THIS horrible portion of the presidency, they’ll stand with him when he refuses to give up power.
3
Ask them one question: "Do you go back on your word if knowing full well that going back on your word will kill hundreds if not thousands of people?" And then show them the clip of trump stating that "Yes, Turkey is a conflict of interest because I have 2! hotels in Istanbul" Then ask them to defend that statement he made and are they willing to let their sons & daughters or friends' sons & daughters die for trump. Because right now people we swore to help are dying because of Trump Towers in Istanbul.
4
Impeach or don't, once he's out of office any prosecution immunity is gone and we all know he's headed straight to prison.
4
He deserves to be impeached due to his awful lack of decorum and noble conduct which a president should exude, however he’ll probably win again due to this new entitled and all-knowing left which also breaches the line of fair discussion and common manners. This is the kind of situation that’ll get Trump elected again!
1
This national nightmare will end when Democrats can form a coalition with sane Republicans. Enough of them exist, they just need a way out. Cut some deals.
"For months, she resisted calls for impeachment. But after the Ukraine news broke, she joined six freshman Democrats who have national security backgrounds in writing an opinion piece in The Washington Post to call for Ms. Pelosi to open an inquiry."
In spite of what many Republicans claim in a "talking" point, there was no rush to judgement. Many Dems like myself, in spite of the deplorable actions of this President, were willing to wait and see it to the election to throw out this undeserving and incompetent conman.
But just like those freshman Democrats, one of whom represents the district next to mine, I found the Ukraine phone call and the whistleblower complaint were just too aggregious to ignore. Even knowing that an impeachment, with certainty, will die in the Senate.
About the damage this administration has done to our country, there's a party leadership that speaks from the heart, that sees the facts, and seeks the truth. And then there's the Republicans.
4
Talking about impeachment: I find it very, very troubling, for two reasons, that the President of the United States threatens the chairman of the committee investigating him and the Speaker of the House with impeachment.
Firstly because it's the unfair thinking of a criminal mind.
Secondly because the Constitution /doesn't provide/ for impeachment of House members.
Does this man know ANYTHING about the country he lives in? Was he a permanent no-show at his civics classes? Did nobody tell him about the birds and the bees and the Constitution during the transition period?
And there was I, ten years back, complaining about GWB...
3
@Martin "Does this man know ANYTHING about the country he lives in?"
No.
1
I think Trump will probably go down in history as our worst president. Unfortunately, despite all the evidence and despite everything we find out about what he has been doing behind closed doors his supporters will never relinquish that fact. This is why I didn’t want impeachment a year ago and why I’m against impeachment now. It gives Trump a way out, and a way to become a king maker. Imagine if Trump is impeached, but right before the election he resigns and Pence is put on the ballot with Trump’s support. His supporters will come out in droves, disillusioned or not. Furthermore, it will allow Trump to control whoever is in the White House with his tweets unleashing his army of trolls. Dems need to defeat Trump in an election, their efforts should be focused on that, and only on that.
1
I agree with Nick Freitas about stopping the madness; that's why Trump must be removed from office. The madness is not the impeachment process; it's the presence of Trump in the White House.
4
When impeachment is supported by 14% of Republicans vs 82% of Democrats, like it or not, it's partisan.
1
Once Congress is back to work, The prez will be in a box of his own making. Many are starting to recognize the destructive turmoil of Trump’s making that threatens our World standing; reputation; trustworthiness; and reliability as an ally. By virtue of these threats Trump no longer has the support US presidents are used to at home and abroad. He is a charlatan who does not believe in or support our historical methods of confronting and managing the World to everyone’s benefit. Our international portfolio is in shambles.
6
1. Democrats are and have been working on bread-and-butter issues, they have a whole list of it to show up for, that the Grim Reaper McConnell keeps ignoring. The do-nothing are red.
2. Democrats didn't choose whether Trump was a criminal or not. Trump caused the impeachment, blame him for this yet another current mess.
2a. Addendum: it is his criminal obstruction that takes even more time away from legislative issues.
3. Public divide is fine, it means independents are forced to face the fact Trump is not only an incompetent conman but also a criminal. It means addressing the madness of Trump's era.
Those among his supporters who ignore the law because they think he is profitable to them are deplorable.
Others may think he is harmful, but also distrust a government they feel works against them and a political party (blue) they feel ignores them, if not is hostile to them. No wonder those would see impeachment as a hit job.
Those are the ones waiting to see if there is a quid pro quo.
3
America has a crisis of voter education. What qualifies most Americans to vote? Most don’t understand the constitution or the job required by a President. They are flying blind. Seems to me we should do a better job on this. When you go for juror duty they explain the justice system and your role. Can’t we do the same to prepare people for the voting booth?
3
There is no desire to impeach Trump, there is simply,
“The Constitution, Article II, Section 4:
The President, Vice President and all civil Officers of the United States, shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, and Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors.”
“And here we are,” because Trump has brought us here. His presidency has been fraught with scandal, executive overreach, divisive policies and general lawlessness. The Trump administration has gone completely rogue and we can’t just choose to ignore Trump’s actions regarding Ukraine because it’s politically expedient to do so. Trump must be held accountable because our nation is governed by laws, and that’s “why we are here.”
4
Given that Trump cannot be counted on to stay loyal to anybody except himself, I cannot understand the continuing support accorded him by the mostly frightened GOP but more so by all the white, rural, underemployed, and ill-informed “base.”
What in the name of heaven do they imagine he would do if whatever their concerns are do not comport with the financial gains he wants for himself and his family?
People: Trump abandons allies and supporters with no compunctions whatsoever. If that’s your belief, well fine for you to take the risk. Just don’t complain when (not if) he drops you as well!
3
First, a shout out to the Frost Cafe in Culpeper, VA— terrific establishment.
Second, Trump’s conduct vis a vis Ukraine and his July 25 call with President Zelensky are extremely troubling and warrant investigation by the House of Representatives.
When the investigation has been completed, the House can vote on whether the evidence warrants moving forward with impeachment proceedings.
We have no choice. That is the way every encounter with a malignant narcissistic personality disaster goes. It would really be nice for more of the public to be able to identify these people. Law enforcement and lawyers and judges included. Then they wouldn’t be used to further victimize we victims , in this case, the entire country...
1
Democrats MUST talk lots about all the bills the Househas passed which McConnell refuses to take up in the Senate otherwise the GOP will paint them as wasting time and 'not getting anything done for the people.' The GOP will then, of course, hypocritically paint themselves as the only ones caring about ordinary Americans. Dems often do worse than the GOP in messaging. That has got to change!
3
I am against the impeachment and after 2016 when all polls and NYT predictions gave Hillary as a winner I donțt trust polls and I see them as one more tool of left propaganda. The left starts to believe its own lies like it happened in 2016. Trump will be re-elected I think, despite a vicious fight during the impeachment, regardless of the results. The country is so divided that this impeachment will not change any minds.
Personally I am disgusted that the Democrats are going for impeachment and for smearing Rdut Giuliani over protecting a has been corrupt Vice President Biden. It just gives the wrong message. Biden is not the boy scout that the press and the Democrats make him to be. I am sure he s behind the arrests of the Giuliani associates who were trying to get info on his corruptions.
2
One thing you can credit Donald Trump with finally dispelling the myth of the "inherent goodness" and "wisdom" of rural America.
If there is anything to be said about rural America is that its natural beauty cannot mask the tribalism, especially white tribalism, from so much of its populace where ignorance, racism and phony patriotism appears to be the norm.
2
In his defense of the British soldiers accused of the Boston Massacre, President John Adams argued that “facts are stubborn things.” Indeed. Sometimes, they’re unpopular too.
Sooner or later, all the stubborn and sordid facts about Trump and his administration will come to light because, as the old adage suggests, he “can’t fool all the people all the time.”
Despite what pundits on the right might say, the impeachment inquiry isn’t about partisan politics. It’s about the rule of law, and the quaint notion that no one is above it.
Nor is it about a “coup” or sore losers undoing the 2016 elections. It’s about responding to allegations of improper conduct - or, to put it another way, looking for the fire after seeing the smoke.
It’s not personal. It’s just a matter of using legal processes to address an issue - not entirely dissimilar from Trump using bankruptcy processes to address his business issues.
No conspiracy, just the law. Imagine that.
2
It's unbelievable how any patriot can support keeping Trump in office. The only conclusion is that no patriot does support Trump.
3
How is it that the Democrats and their media allies see nothing wrong with Hunter Biden making 50000 a month for sitting on the board of a corrupt oligarchs oil company in Ukraine while his dad was in charge of US policy on Ukraine. It would look like a conflict of interest even if Hunter did have expertise in the oil industry or even about Ukraine but the fact is he had nothing to bring to the table other than the fact that his dad was Vice President of the US.
3
@dave There is zero evidence that Hunter Biden (or his dad) did anything illegal. But - even if he/they did - it is illegal for Trump to strong-arm a foreign country into "investigating" [aka, "making up dirt"] them. Got it?
1
Is there really any other course than to impeach? Trump has broken the law. This country is based on the rule of law. That’s what keeps society from devolving. If I break the law as an ordinary citizen I will get arrested. Why should it be different for anyone else?? This isn’t a monarchy.
1
Impeachment may or may not work out, in terms of helping remove Trump in the 2020 election. It's important to remember the long view.
The US is going through a difficult time, as it's white majority shrinks to a plurality. This next 15 years is when the rubber meets the road. By embracing Trump, many white people know they're driving non-whites away from the Republican party forever. They don't seem to worry about it, but it's the very reason they're in the Fox corner.
Trump's prediction of civil war is the race war that many rural white people imagine is coming. It's a primary reason not a few of them are armed to the teeth. It's really sad, because it's all in their heads. No one is coming for their property, their houses, their guns. But it makes them feel important to imagine differently.
I would add one thing to Democrat talking points. Impeachment will put the spotlight on Senate Republicans. That could help break the stranglehold Mitch McConnell has on legislation. Right now he's sinking the House's efforts as diligently as he tried to destroy President Obama's. The more Democrats can put attention on McConnell, the more they'll gain.
2
Trump has broken law after law. While he in office the recourse is impeachment (indictment) and removal (conviction). If the evidence wasn't convincing enough before, he has handed us incontrovertible proof now. The rest of it is legalism and bloviating. Let's do this quickly and effectively, and get on to reviving our democracy.
2
I wish I could personally thank the president for his meltdown in Minneapolis on Thursday night. The sequel in Louisiana was a gift as well. The more X-rated rallies he holds, the more he loses Independents and suburban women and increases the likelihood that swing states will vote for his competition in greater numbers than for him.
So spew away, Mr. President. Drive even more of my "Minnesota Nice" friends and neighbors away. They expected to hear your plans for four more years....not your grievances of the past three.
1
Nothing has changed for me - I would have nothing to do with any trump supporters before the impeachment inquiry and obviously will not change now - trump and his supporters are my enemy.
2
My main take-away from these personal interviews of voters on both sides of the aisle is that as soon as Trump’s out of office, whether by impeachment or the 2020 vote, the highest national-policy priority needs to be shoring up our educational systems: These Trump supporters demonstrate the old maxim, “You think education is expensive? Try ignorance.”
1
And then we will have Pence. Lucky us. Rest assured he will be as bad, if not worse than trump, but he will do it in an "acceptable" way. And there will be NO way we can impeach Pence.
Be careful what you ask for.
3
Glad to hear weakening support for the Trump. He will surely go down in history very poorly — if we survive his presidency.
1
I always wonder if Republicans tell their kids that they want them to grow up and be just like Trump?
1
What is so difficult? Trump swore an oath to uphold the Constitution. He is breaking the law. He is trying to rig elections. He is aligning this country with the political aims of Putin. If his deeds are not impeachable, then impeachment has no reality. And if he is not removed either by impeachment or voting, the country as a republic is dead.
1
@David Jacobson
Putin does seem to have Trump on a leash. I wonder why? Putin did say that he hoped none of his phone call with DT came to light.
1
It is amazing how Trump voters can believe every fact against him is a hoax. Their delusion is mysterious beyond comprehension.
Trump is a consistent source of amusement or shocking entertainment. The Howard Stern of the presidency.
1
In his defense of the British soldiers accused of the Boston Massacre, President John Adams argued that “facts are stubborn things.” Indeed. Sometimes, they’re unpopular too.
Sooner or later, all the stubborn and sordid facts about Trump and his administration will come to light because, as the old adage suggests, he “can’t fool all the people all the time.”
Despite what pundits on the right might say, the impeachment inquiry isn’t about partisan politics. It’s about the rule of law, and the quaint notion that no one is above it.
Nor is it about a “coup” or sore losers undoing the 2016 elections. It’s about responding to allegations of improper conduct - or, to put it another way, looking for the fire after seeing the smoke.
It’s not personal. It’s just a matter of using the legal processes to address an issue - not entirely dissimilar from the way Trump
1
I think that if the Dems were to remove Adam Schiff as chairman of the House Intelligence Committee, then support for impeachment would increase dramatically. Schiff is a partisan hack who just exudes partiality towards removing Trump from office for any reason whatsoever.
1
I'm amazed that climate change does not appear in the American discourse as a "kitchen table" issue.
Or that the President of the country calls it a hoax, which alone, in the face of the greatest threat in history, should indict him.
Americans are so removed from the world. The Exceptions!
2
As the stench from the corrupt Trump WH spreads across America, it's no surprise Trump support is waning. What's also waning, finally, is republican support with the most recent example former NJ Gov Whitman who excoriated Trump on national tv.
But are only at the beginning of the extraordinary number of scandals about to unfold. Russian and Ukrainian money paid for many congressional campaigns, each of which had their own special legislative "deal", and all will gradually be revealed. What we're seeing today is a mere trickle of what's to come.
The next revelation will come from civil servants who will report on the effect of massive malfeasance & gross mismanagement from this three year con. Their statements before congress will send shock waves thru the nation.
Whereas the 2008 meltdown was entitled TOO BIG TO FAIL, The Trump scandal will be entitled TOO BIG TO BELIEVE. America will be incredulous of how much damage one con man could inflict in 3 short years.
2
Even though he says or does something nearly every day that suggests he is not suited for the office IMO the senate won’t convict. The only sure way to get rid of the man is to vote him out of office in 2020.
And, it is every patriotic citizens duty to vote in 2020 (and every election for that matter). Don’t forget more registered voters did not vote in 2016 than voted for either major candidate. If the Democratic Party can present a reasonable person with a sensible platform in 2020 then chances are very good that Trump’s next encounter with government will be in a court of law as a private citizen.
1
I don't really think that a sample size of two or three people, in a few small rural towns, means all that much.
3
Sorry to involve in this debate as a foreigner. But I have a question: If Obama had done the same would democrats have defended him the same way Republicans defend Trump? I know a Trump-supporter and a democrat and when we're talking politics the democrat has a much more open and critical approach to both sides than the Trump-supporter. Offcourse this only counts for two persons but reading Trump-supporters arguments seems to point in that direction.
2
@Finngolf
Hi, Finn. As a democrat, I can say unequivocally that I could never defend or support the type of person who has done the terrible things Trump has, regardless of the letter behind their name. I think most Democrats feel the same way.
You see, the difference between so-called conservatives vs progressives in the US goes much, much deeper than politics. It is truly a matter of character and morals. Conservatives view everything as a zero-sum game. They think the means justify the ends and will lie, cheat, steal and even, at times, kill to ‘win’. (That’s what they call it- ‘winning’.) They’re also notorious for biting their own noses off to spite their face.
The rest of us find them appalling.
2
'The polls' I continue to hold little weight with these numbers
because all depends on the craft of the questions.
1
Government can fail - also a democratically elected one. A reason for news outlets to exist is to review this and make know to the public what’s happening. In the US both the media as well as the government bodies have become increasingly partisan, and less focused on doing their jobs.
More specifically: Fox News - and its anchors - are a big driver behind where we are in public opinion (as the opinions displayed in this article). It's getting to be (even more) propagandistic. They just ousted their latest critic, which shows the direction they're headed in. Trump & team made a smart move there. They see that if Fox News will unilaterally be on their side, they can rally the troops through propaganda & not loose power regardless of the impeachment facts.
Lastly of course, people have a responsibility to educate themselves and also observe partisanship of their news outlets & condemn as we see it.
1
@Mark
Shephard Smith was not ousted. He quit because he was disgusted. He was a real journalist. His exit is a black eye for Fox. Hannity et al are 'opinion hosts' that spew inflammatory rhetoric. I did not know this until recently but I don't watch Fox. Shame on me for not knowing that.
1
I agree with this commenter:
"Conviction in the Senate is not entirely out of the question."
Unlikely, but it could happen. Even if it doesn't, Trump's opponents can rightly insist that Trump "explain" what he did, which strikes me as flatly wrong, an offense worthy of impeachment and removal.
However, as another commenter points out, impeachment and removal won't put a Democrat in the White House. It will just put Mike Pence there.
The best shot for the Democratic Party is to have Trump removed just before the 2020 election, when it probably will be too late for Pence to run and win. I doubt that will happen, but that does appear to be the best hope for the Democratic Party.
1
The Divide has existed for hundreds of years between the progressive business class of the city and the people around the city vs the landed gentry.
In every clash between these elements, the City wins over the Country as it did in the English Revolution of the 1600's,in the American Revolution of the 1700's and in the American Civil War.
Trump represents the religious landed gentry of the deep south and the midwest.
He was able to hoodwink some city folk in Wisconsin, Michigan and Pennsylvania in the 2016 election.
He lost that city vote in 2018.
Impeachment isn't bringing that vote back.
The City will win in 2020.
The Country will continue to fight.
Great Divide? Uh. Yeah. Pretty simple.
The Democrats in the House must build a good case for impeachment based on credible testimony and evidence that can be understood by the public. This will close the public divide. The Senate will then fall into line.
I saw it in 1974 when the evidence and public sentiment became so strong that a group of Republican Senators went to the White House one August evening and told Nixon to resign. He was gone a couple of days later. It can happen again.
The republic will go on
1
1) I hope all the democratic house members can go to their home districts and point out emphatically all the legislation they have tried to pass to address the many problems their constituents want them to deal with. They can then point out, more emphatically, how all this legislation sits languishing on the desk of the Republican house speaker.
2) Does the district that elected Abigail Spanberger not trust her judgement to carry out the law, as a person of integrity whom they elected? Do they not trust their own judgement?
2
Nobody in Pres. Trump's power-base believes these polls, even the recent Fox poll. In fact, if anything, they overwhelmingly believe just the opposite and fully expect to see polls calling for Pres. Trump's impeachment and removal from office to start descending fairly quickly.
1
The divide between Pro Trump and Anti Trump Americans reflects a basic distrust of the political process. It is about politicians who are about party before country and the power of Big money. It's about the ability to displace a genuine concern for the welfare of the common man. Anger of Americans who feel left out of the economic decisions made to benefit a small group not all Americans. Trump talks about the anger but he has done little to help the regular guy....a dangerous demagogue who plays on the frustrations of small town America.
1
Nancy Pelosi will not be paying attention to opinion polls if and when she finally decides to make this impeachment “inquiry“ a real and recognized legislative process. Rather, she will be (a) taking the pulse of the 31 moderate democratic party legislators who stand to lose their seats should they vote against an impeachment investigation, and (b) calculating whether her party stands a better chance at the polls in November 2020, versus risking a long, drawn out fight that I believe she assesses Mr. Trump will win handily.
2
The American people have already voted on impeachment; they voted in 2018 for a Democratic House of Representatives which has the power to resist Trump's bad ideas and the power to impeach him if necessary.
1
The greater crime that Trump has been committing is spending so much time and resources on conspiracy theories instead of helping the American people fix our crumbling infrastructure, loss of manufacturing jobs, and climate change! Why is Trump still fighting political wars that were already finished back in 2016?
1
We can get excited by nationwide polls and face to face interviews about impeachment in Trump country, but the only poll that is going to matter on this is that of the Republican Senators. Twenty of them must vote to convict, and that seems to be a tall order to expect.
‘Support for impeachment is building’? Why not, when the media is pushing it on a daily basis and have been for some time? When media pundits have convinced the majority, as they did regarding (nonexistent) weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, they are prepared to suffer the consequences.
The Founding Fathers embraced liberty as the key objective of the Constitution and Congress as the main body of government to defend it. They also intended Congress to be in the driver’s seat of government, not the President. The Democrats have a wonderful opportunity to brand themselves as the guardian angels of these two fundamental principles, and take the lead among independents and moderate voters of all stripes. It’s time to shift the conversation. Twitter is for Twitter brains (i.e. those with negative I.Q.’s), it’s time for the grown-ups to come back into the room and talk about real things. People died defending liberty, it’s our burden to honor their sacrifice by protecting the rights they secured with their blood.
This article seems to be saying that Pelosi is waiting until
the Poll numbers are high enough before she authorizes
a full blown Impeachment.
So I guess the Democrats are playing politics on this.
So much for saving America.
Politics Trumps All.
1
So, just to be clear, this an inquiry, based on credible preliminary evidence, into possible impeachable malfeasance by President Trump. Note: an inquiry, i.e. an investigation, and not, at this stage, an impeachment hearing.
If Trump is correct and he did nothing wrong, he has nothing to fear and the inquiry will wind down and end.
But he is not acting like he thinks he has nothing to fear. Instead of taking the position that he has nothing to hide and demonstrating that by not hiding anything he has taken the odd position that he has nothing to hide and so he will hide everything.
Very strange behavior.
However, the House of Representatives has every legal and constitutional right to make these inquiries, so basically Trump is blowing smoke with all his pseudo-legalistic PR pronouncements.
I guess we'll see the truth when the inquiry winds up its investigation and presents a report.
78
I appreciate the spectrum of views presented here. America is not stronger if opposing views are dismissed out of hand.
Defending the Constitution is in the oath of office of every single American official whether it is the President of the United States or a military officer or a legislator or public official.
There are Trump voters who uneasily hold conflicting views: they wish Trump wouldn't tweet so much/use abusive language/brag outrageously, or whatever else they realize is against basic respect for Americans and also is against expectations for the actions and language of a president. At the same time, they like his actual abuse of immigrants, reiteration of the "greatness" of the country through his personal boasts, fantasies, etc.
Impeachment tests the principles of the U.S. Constitutional system, including coequal branches of government and the bedrock Founding Fathers concept that the country should not be led by a tyrant or monarch: "when a long train of abuses and usurpations, ... evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism".
Casting a ballot doesn't mean you're casting a bottle into the ocean with a message written inside that might or might not ever be read. 3 million more Americans voted for Hillary Clinton over Trump. There is no Trump mandate.
Engaging in global blackmail, bribery and extortion to win an election is unethical and illegal. So is solicitation of foreign help.
This is not the new normal. It is an aberration.
151
@SMB - Very impressive. Thank you.
"More of the same..."really means more of the two-party system that needs to go. But so few people are aware that our bilateral legislature has relied on these two dinosaurs for so long that no one has any concept of how to move forward. Both parties engage in the same thing: perpetual campaigning and fundraising from any source, however dubious, while paying mere lip service, if that, to the needs of their non-corporate non-lobbying constituents. The American political establishment needs to transform itself in a revolutionary way to meet the challenges of the future and is hiding tortoise-like ever deeper in its shell to avoid this arduous but necessary task
4
I wonder what the polls would show if voters were offered a choice between impeachment or censure (or nothing).
I’ll bet far fewer would support impeachment, many opting for censure.
Polls are highly dependent on how the question is asked.
8
Impeachment is a huge and disruptive process. I, like many others, supported Speaker Pelosi’s decision not to pursue the articles. Then bang!: we are face to face with clear in-your-face presidential extortion of a foreign government for dirt on a political opponent. This turned me on a dime. Tolerating or ignoring a mob-like shakedown from the highest office in the land is unpatriotic diffidence, and I anticipate that the momentum for impeachment will grow as more information is uncovered. Conviction in the Senate is not entirely out of the question.
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@the doctor
This is the problem the Democrats are running into, you guys are convicting him before any evidence has been presented. This drives people away. Plus they support the inquiry not the impeachment these are two distinct different things
Agreed. In February, I sent a letter to Pelosi stating that I supported her reticence on impeachment even as others were pushing to bring impeachment. I now believe differently and fully support a full inquiry. I have not seen a President this corrupt in my lifetime, not even Nixon, for all his many flaws. And I fear that we are only seeing the tip of an iceberg that will make the Teapot Dome scandal look like petty crime.
1
@the doctor
Excellent Comment
Folks, when a law is broken and a penalty must be enforced your “opinion” is not worth anything.
Trump asked a foreign government official to dig up dirt on his political opponent and has family. Fact. He admitted it, then went on camera and asked again. Fact. Trump broke the law. He should be impeached for this. It is constitutionally correct. Your “opinion” does not matter. He committed a crime. Fact.
347
@Samuel Any president has the right to investigate corruption at the highest level, and President trade favors all the time. It is a big difference between investigating real concerns and real corruption, as opposed to making up dirt on someone, and there is zeo evidence Trump tried to frame Biden for things he did not due. He just wants to get to the bottom of what happened after a very incriminating set of evidence, including Bidens own words on tape and the affidavid of the prosecutor who was fired to drop the case into Burisma.
@Samuel
But as RUDY would say a fact is not a fact.The truth is not the truth and the president is not a president.
A bone spur is not a bone spur, a grope is not a grope. An evangelical Trump lackey is not a Christian and a tax scandal is not a tax scandal; and a fine person is often not a fine person at all.
1
Trump supporters have had nearly 3 years to examine their faithfulness to this man. They have had opportunity upon opportunity to criticize his most outrageous words and deeds. But worse than the deafening silence is that they seem to relish the chaos.
Trump’s gunshot victim has been bleeding on 5th Avenue for nearly 3 years, and instead of rushing in to help or pointing out the shooter to authorities, Trump's base can think of nothing else to do but take selfies in their red hats while a body bleeds in the background.
Let the investigation continue and lead where it may. But here's hoping that, despite the results, Democrats muster their resolve to seriously adopt some of the progressive ideas they claim to champion and win in 2020.
As to the GOP, they don't have much time left to rediscover their souls. And good luck to them, too.
125
Three years of harassment from the democrats.Trying everything to depose a President whom they did not like: a Latin American model of politics,and no real work done. So sure we will be voting for Trump. Elections are not going to be decided by lawyers.
16
Focus on the issues: are you suggesting that using the office to blackmail a country to interfere with the electoral process in legal?
1
@JR The actions of Trump place him far beyond mere "did not like". Attempting to frame Trump's illegal actions as being a part of politics today fails to acknowledge that some actions are simply wrong and require a response, dictated by the laws that govern America.
1
@JR, I guarantee that you would be singing a very different song if it was a Democratic president doing what Trump is doing. It isn't harrassment, JR, it's justice, and it looks like it will finally be administered by Congress (not lawyers).
1
Donald Trump's responses to recent polls showing that now the majority of voters want him impeached:
The information reported by pollsters is all second-hand.
All of those polls are wrong. I just took an anonymous poll of the people working in the White House and only 43% of them think I should be impeached.
"Oh well, I'm President." (this one he actually said)
20
@Jay Orchard
No one cares what the "majority" of voters want.
If they did, Hilary would be president, Obama's selection of a Supreme Court Justice would have at least been voted on. Need I go on?
@Jay Orchard If he actually said that, then I know he is crazy.
Mr. Trump, you have shown them all, you won the biggest prize there is, The Presidency. Your campaigning and ability to rally a crowd are unmatched.
Unfortunately the skills needed to BECOME President are not the same as the skills needed to BE President. After several years of trying, it is evident that these are skills you are not going to be able to learn.
It would be my strong suggestion that you declare Victory, and leave while you can still be a Winner. In other words you will need to negotiate an immunity deal and resign. If you attempt to stay it will end badly for you. You will be Impeached and Removed. No one wants something like that on their record, better by far to leave while you are still on top and Winning.
61
Precisely. In my leadership mentoring group we learned that "the skills that got you here today may not be the skills you will need tomorrow" in the role of a leader.
Leaders don't need command. Leaders don't reign. Leaders are not aggrieved. Leaders do not need to be the biggest, bestest, most. Leaders inspire others to be their best. Leaders inspire others to work together toward a vision that they embrace as their own.
2
@Bruce1253, clever writing, but is he "too big to face justice "? If he is, we have failed our constitution.
1
@Bruce1253
Good advice!
The Trouble With Trump Believers; They Want to Believe the Impossible
THEY want to believe in THEIR total salvation, even in the face of the contradictory. They want, with their hearts & souls, to believe that they are the “The Way & the Light to Resurrection” & that they may now have their “Redeemer.” Hence, we have the Christian evangelicals all laying hands on Trump.
It causes such great cognitive dissonance to now find that they are chasing their own tails rather than the elusive rabbit that they thought was within sight. Their thoughts: “I know that rabbit has to be here, I saw it with my own eyes.” For the really old people, it is like the gold in Ty Ty's “God's Little Acre”, that gold just had to be there & they were going to find it.
The real proof of the fool in the Trump Melodrama is that what he says proves that he and his followers are fools & undeniably so. Every person, even of modest intellect, had to accept that the man was deranged when he stated he had “infinite wisdom.” Those 2 words can never be at peace in a single declarative statement, it simply is English impossible. To know all & for all times is what this statement declares and any person, nearing mental sanity, knows this is impossible in the realm of human reason.
Last, please do remember, “More Trees & Less Fossil Fuel is The Solution Going Forward. Plant & water some trees each week. Trees are a Proven Climate Change Solution.” Thank you & Vote Blue in 2020.
50
@WorldPeace24/7
Spot on. I feel that a lifetime of religious indoctrination is what primes people to so easily suspend disbelief even in the face of overwhelming evidence and despite what their own eyes and ears tell them. It explains why evangelicals are attracted to the Republican Party.
1
World Peace 24/7@ For a moment I thought you were talking about Obama with respect how his followers thought he was their Salvation.
Two brief documents: The whistleblower complaint and the White House memo of the phone call.
Both easy to read, both easy to understand and both provide damning evidence of Trump soliciting assistance from a foreign country for the 2020 campaign.
And yet, we have grown people proudly saying they think this is a “hoax” or that they aren’t sure anything happened.
They will happily wave flags, go to rallies and shout. Even cheer as their children go off and serve in the military.
And yet, they cannot be bothered to read two documents, readily available on the internet, that show, with no room for doubt, their President is a crook?
What has happened to our country?
193
@Chickpea It is not that something has happened to our country. It is a small group who have delivered this mess. I did not bring this mess, chances are that you did not bring this mess.
The sooner we identify these people (which this article does very well), we can begin to deal with the mess that they have wrought.
2
@Chickpea
Correction: 'shout/shoot'
Nothing has changed, it's the same people that voted for him the first time. Somehow they relate to him . . . I can only think in derangement.
2
@Chickpea
As my young family doctor says, "technology has made us dumber".
2
Sure the impeachment inquiry has merit. But no matter what happens with impeachment, it does not put Democrats in the White House.. -- They still need to win in 2020.
20
I was against impeachment. But the Ukraine phone call shows the bare bones, tip of the ice berg corruption of Trump and his acolytes. I would much prefer he be voted out at the ballot box, but that too would probably be contested. Proceed, Speaker Pelosi.
69
@Susan Hatfield
You will have the chance to vote against him.
The GOP Senate will put Trump above the law.
20
@gratis
Perhaps, but maybe not. They are more concerned about being re-elected. At the end of the day they are politicians.
Impeachment is all about investigation and not politics, however by spinning the impeachment to look like it's politics it makes Donald look like he never did anything wrong, and if he didn't he shouldn't have anything to worry about.
I wonder what his blood pressure is?
17
@BTO
Pray.
6
Every adult in America should read the Constitution. Then they will have some ammo for their arguments--or not. Let us identify the areas that show the investigations of Trump are illegal or hoaxes, or identify the legal justifications for impeachment. Let the Constitution be our compass in these trying times. Otherwise, it is better to remain silent.
12
@Hector
Here, I'll make it easy. After all, the Constitution is very clear on the subject.
"The House of Representatives . . . shall have the sole Power of Impeachment." Art. I, Sec. 2, Cl. 5.
"The President . . . shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, and Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors." Art. I, Sec. 4.
That's it. The House has all the authority to determine the how and what of impeaching Trump, and the Senate is compelled to remove him upon a showing of the crimes he's committed.
Debates as to what the Founders were considering to the types of "Crimes and misdemeanors" are merely specious distractions. As George Mason famously asked to illustrate their concerns:
“Shall the man who has practised corruption & by that means procured his appointment in the first instance, be suffered to escape punishment, by repeating his guilt?”
The Dems have a chance here to redefine roles, the Democratic Party as the Party of the Rule of Law, Defender of the Constitution. The GOP is practically begging the Dems to take it. Paint the GOP as the Party of Lawlessness, refusing to defend the Constitution. They need a broader issue than just Trump. What if Trump goes away before the election? But they won't. Because they are message challenged Democrats.
15
The 3 I's. Inquiry, Impeachment, Incarceration.
78
A recent NYT podcast had a republican talking about the "dead chicken strategy". I won't reiterate it here but will recommend it.
If these allegations are supported (and key ones have been admitted), impeaching the president in the House flips the problem into the Republican senate where it will become a very dead chicken.
9
@psi - and we will also know the names and faces of all the chicken killers come 2020. When a snake keeps getting in the hen house and eating your eggs and killing your chicks, we all know the solution. We need the Rep. puppets to go on record as to WHY they support a man who has openly admitted to violation of his oath of office.
It was Clarance Thomas quoted on Brian Lehrer ....WNYC
I’ve read that a number of Americans are saying that Congress should be working on more important things than impeachment inquiry - healthcare, prescription drug costs, infrastructure, immigration reform, and on and on. I’ve also read that Speaker Pelosi has said that the House has worked on many of these issues and has forwarded bills to the Senate, where Majority Leader McConnell refuses to bring them to a vote. If speaker Pelosi‘s comments are true, I think the NYT could do American citizens a big favor by publicizing this fact more widely.
140
@Barbara
The Democrats have done a poor job of beating their own drum on this. Most of the problems these unhappy Republicans mentioned were addressed in some manner in the many bills already passed by this House. These bills should have been debated and refined.
But McConnell proudly killed them all. And these proud and uninformed voters remain completely unaware of this fact.
57
@Barbara They have.
The question that those who oppose impeachment and/or think it's simply a partisan witch hunt is this:
If Trump were a Democrat, what would you say?
If you have any honesty at all, you'll admit that you would've been calling for an impeachment inquiry starting January 20, 2017.
Spare us the hypocrisy.
65
@Kingfish52
Really not much of a question.. if you just go ahead and answer it yourself. I'd call that hypocrisy.
7
@mike I think the word you're looking for is "rhetorical".
15
@mike
You know, Republicans had their fun with Hillary. She didn’t hide behind a mythical “executive privilege.” She sat in the hot seat for 11 hours straight, and Republicans had nothing. The FBI investigated her incessantly for emails, for crying out loud. Still nothing worse than GW Bush’s use of the RNC server when he was president.
As partisan and hyped up as it may have been, no Democrats stepped between Clinton and due process.
So, come again?
57
Daily, we are pelted with outrageous name calling, lying about what Democrats believe or want to do and trump using his limited vocabulary of vulgar language and swearing. trump loves using vulgar language at his rallies, it really revs-up the crowd. I guess those rally-goers like a vulgar president. Who knows, maybe it makes them feel at home.
Daily, another layer of the trump onion of corruption is peeled back to reveal yet more examples of possible criminal behavior. Most examples reveal a man who intimidated his acting-cabinet into doing illegal things and lawyers willing to hide it.
Do trump supporters believe that all the different people from different departments are in some way conspiring with each other? I doubt they actually know each other.
Do trump supporters believe that those who come forward, putting their careers on the line and in some cases, risking their lives, are making up crimes and making up the people who may be committing the crimes?
What is most worrisome is that some trump supporters are okay with THEIR president committing a crime. Just not anyone else - not them nor their neighbor. This is how we devolve into a lawless society.
63
Love the point that Trump supporters are likely as vulgar (and hypocritical) as he is—and getting worse! I guess the hypocrisy is what lets them look at themselves in the mirror every morning.
Do they really talk like that about other people? Guess so! How sad for them and their children.
Somebody please enlighten me. Those 2 guys tangled up wth Donald's lawyer, Rudy, were born in the former Soviet Union right? They allegedly funnelled money into Trump's campaign. If that were true would it constitute collusion? Would it cast doubt on Honest Don's endless denials of Collusion through the so-called witch hunt that Barr misrepresented?
Tangentially, has Honest Don have any plans to pay for those pianos for his bankrupt Casino? I am expecting an animated version of this pageant in the future. The Joker portrayed by Phoenix is less creepy, grotesque, disturbing and clownish than the President of the United States. It would be entertaining except real people are tragically dying in Syria. i guess if you are a dead person you won't be laughing at the punch line.
28
I am voting for Trump. These investigations are petty.
7
@Jonathan: Yup, that’s what the thief said about the investigations of his thefts...
@Jonathan
Corruption is petty? How about selling out allies? Is that petty too? Where is the line?
1
@Jonathan
I do not think standing up for the Constitution and our democracy is petty.
The criminality in the White House is glaring.
Mr. Trump:
Please keep up the obstruction, because the longer you do the more time you'll be giving Nancy to dig up more 'red meat' to feed her base, just like she learned from you doing the same to yours - while the independents, your disappointed supporters, and nervous Senators sit back and watch the show as they decide when it's time to leave the sinking ship.
Tick Tock...
15
@Gene Grossman
It is not "red meat". It is emails, texts, testimony from multiple sources agreeing to a high degree that there was a systemic, long term plot for Trump and his cronies to take dirty money from the Ukraine. Biden was just a happy by-product.
12
@gratis
Don’t leave out the fact that our disgrace-for-a president actually said what he did, and what he did was ILLEGAL.
at this point the US must impeach him. If not, after knowing what we know now, it would set a precedent where we won't be able to go back.
35
It's early.
We have a Trump problem because we have an apathy and ignorance problem among the voters. How come they're not all up in arms against this aberration of a president?
70
@JB
We have a GOP that has become the Party of Lawlessness, supporting and encouraging the breaking of laws.
Support the Rule of Law, or not.
20
The actual impeachment charges have not yet been determined. The charges should be as popular as the current notion of impeachment.
4
I think the Russians could invade Alaska and his base would still support him.
118
@Laume Yeah, Alaska isn't important; it was a folly anyway.
There is hope that some folks who voted for Trump are open to the impeachment inquiry, but there should be no need for more evidence in order to realize that Trump has abused his office and should be removed from that office. He has admitted calling on foreign governments to "investigate" his political rivals. For the future, what seems to be needed is massive education on civics, including the separation of powers and respect for the rule of law. Easier said than done since education is done locally in the U.S., but apparently it is needed in the extreme.
36
@Martin
They are a minority. They are not needed.
@Martin
What seem to be needed in the future is massive inheritance taxes to minimize aberrant individuals such as Trump. Or Betsy DeVos. Or Mitt Romney. Or....
12
In the end it will be a question whether the constant lies of our Tweeting President and of the Fox propaganda machine can drown the truth. If the truth gets through, Trump will fade away one way or the other. American values, our democracy, the rule of law will endure.
27
“People voted for him.”
Fact check: no, they didn’t... because the United States is a denocratic republic. If voters COULD cast ballots for the Presidential (and Vice Presidential) candidates of their choice, we wouldn’t be at odds over whether Donald J. Trump should be impeached or removed from office. The Electoral College has been the Republican Party’s best friend over the past 20 years. Abolishing it is long overdue. It’s anti-democratic (with a “small ‘d’”).
68
@Marvin Bruce Bartlett
Oh jeez..yes yes, it's all a big conspiracy.
5
Why don't pollsters first ask respondents what Trump is accused of, before asking them if he should be impeached? I guarantee you that the majority who claim that this is just a hoax or Democrats are trying to undo the 2016 election, also have no idea what Trump's offences are, nor do they care. Also, stop going to diners, as if they are representative of the community they're in. Where's the proof of that?
52
It’s very sad, really, how people allow Trump to tell them what to think. I wonder what it must be like at Fox News now that they fired a good reporter who wanted to think for himself and dared to buck the company line.
Mike Wallace is next. But that won’t mean anything to intelligent Trump supporters. They will stay with Trump until the end, like the 25 percent who still thought Nixon was innocent.
26
If 14% of GOP voters support impeachment, that's 14% less voting for him (should he survive this, which I sincerely and hopefully doubt that will happen).
15
@Sheila
Don't expect any Republicans to vote for Elizabeth Warren no matter what they think of Trump..
9
@mike: Did I say anything about Warren? I said that 14% of GOP voters don't support him, so they won't vote for him. Anyone not supporting him in the GOP means he's in bigger trouble than he'll publicly admit.
No offense, but the teacher who is concerned about cockroaches in the classroom - Donald Trump has appointed a Secretary of Education, Betsy DeVos, who has NO college degree in education! How does that make teachers feel about THEIR college educations? Do you think Betsy DeVos cares about cockroaches?
My husband, a retired teacher, went to college on the GI Bill, after serving in Vietnam. He furthered his degree as time went on, while teaching full time with three kids, and several part time jobs, too. But to stay in Education he thought that was necessary.
Donald Trump in his choices, like Betsy DeVos, has decimated opportunities, value, integrity. All part of his game.
It would be easy to say those that voted and would vote for Trump again got what they deserve, even cockroaches, but the rest of us got what we did NOT deserve!
96
@MIMA
The GOP says they like those policies.
4
Trump committed treason and the news is preoccupied with polls concerning whether people care? I'm trying to remember a time when Walter Cronkite ever qualified his reporting by saying "...and only 50% of you folks believe the news I am presenting."
I no longer care what Trump supporters believe or how they MIGHT vote. Let's stick to the facts and stop giving credibility (no matter how little) to the uninformed opinions of the Americans responsible for our current crisis.
139
@Pete I remember thinking something similar to this when we were subjected to all of the "let's better understand Trump voters" stories after the election. What I seemed to gather was that these people felt overlooked and wanted to be heard, but unfortunately what they had to say only made me think "aaand... that's why we don't listen to you. Because you have nothing of value to contribute to the conversation."
@Pete
Well said. I totally agree.
I would hope at some point soon the Senate would move to put the House on notice if it continues to deny Republican House members their historical parts in their inquiry, they will base their rejection of the House results as being insufficient without debate.
3
I suppose instead that the results of the House investigation will put the Senate on notice that the American people will be paying attention to how seriously they take the charges against the president. I suppose that the people will have only a limited tolerance for obstruction of justice.
11
Sorry for asking, what exactly “are their historical parts” in an impeachment?
9
@Erik
Making rules the Dems have to obey, and rules that the GOP has to obey (none).
4
It's a lot like having a terrible brother-in-law.
No matter what you tell the sibling about him, it's only your opinion until finding he/she sees the million-buck IRS lien, other family, outstanding warrants, etc. for his/herself. At that point, the identical reality becomes facts.
The sibling may have known or "known" privately there's something wrong long before acknowledging it.
Mr. Trump has never sold anything more successfully than the twin concepts that anything bad about him or his administration is just an opinion, not a fact; and that any proceeding against him is motivated only by trying to roll back the 2016 election.
The Dems should keep talking about what Mr. Trump has done to the whole House, not just their side of the aisle, and the whole country. They should also explain that nobody, no matter how politically opposed to Mr. Trump, is happy that a president may have done (x or y or...) and downplay the distinctly different reaction of being grateful the possibility of such behavior has been acknowledged and is being adjudicated.
Like the sibling and brother-in-law, everybody accepts reality at a different pace. Eventually, most of us will be on the same page about Mr. Trump; the best thing he's ever done may be letting us see everything in almost real time.
12
Of course Democrats are studying the polls. At the same time, Pelosi's initial announcement struck me as out going out on a limb because of principle, not popularity--the principle that the president is not above the law.
If the Constitution intended the sobering action of impeachment to rest on polling Americans, it would have stated this. Instead, it states that impeachment is to be decided by representatives on the basis of whether or not the representatives conclude the president has committed acts of "treason, bribery or other high crimes and misdemeanors."
19
I don't think there was much in the way of daily (weekly, monthly) polling in the 1780s
4
As a long time New Yorker and now a Jersey Guy, I struggle with this impeachment inquiry. So, let me tell it, like it is - my 2 cents:
I know that Trump is a Con Man but he wouldn’t have won if Hillary didn’t lose her credibility. Of course, Comey helped by his comment about the FBI inquiry right before the election. Trump also scared everyone about illegal immigration, terrorism and he also stoked racial hostility. He also impressed folks with big planes, penthouse apartments and of course a bevy of beautiful women as part of his entourage. Trump’s crude behavior was a welcome relief from the overall avalanche of political correctness. People were tired of same old, same old - they wanted a change. Let’s just forget about the Electoral College - it is what it is. The fact is - Trump won democratically. So I tried to get over it.
Then came the painfully slow (like watching the grass grow), Mueller investigation. At the end, it was much ado about nothing. I knew Trump didn’t collude because I betcha he didn’t know what that word meant. He used to be on the Howard Stern show very frequently - he is a rude and crude spoiled brat with a rich daddy. He led a consequence free life notwithstanding four business bankruptcies - not a good business man that is. Trump specializes in fraud like the old-fashioned “Boiler-Room” tactics of shysters. His biggest “Boiler-Room” triumph was his election victory.
Sorry, impeachment will get him re-elected - just vote him out - ‘nuff said
7
I disagree that the Mueller investigation was much ado about nothing. While reading the report, I was shocked at the behavior of our government officials, including destruction of evidence and use of encrypted apps. Trump was up to something shady with the Russians, why else would there be so much concealment (meeting with Putin in Helsinki), refusal to cooperate with the investigation (our stable genius couldn’t remember enough to answer Mueller’s questions), and the10 ways he managed to obstruct the investigation? The final question that hasn’t been answered is, what is he hiding? No one would behave like Trump if they weren’t hiding some serious wrong doing.
33
@Raj Sinha At a minimum, Trump tried to collude or conspire with a foreign power -- sorry you don't need to know what a word means to violate a law. He openly called on Russia to hack HIllary's emails. k And there is no question that he obstructed justice. He admitted as much to Russians after he fired Comey. That is NOT much ado about nothing -- it's an impeachable offense. The Dems had no choice. Trump is trying dirty tricks and engage in in crimes to fix the 2020 election. So we can't count on a fair election if we let Trump get away with all his misconduct.
32
@Raj Sinha
Did you read the Mueller Report? Any of it?
I thought not.
Democracy is hard. You have to work to keep it safe, to protect it. Some people even risk their reputations, their jobs, their lives to preserve it.
1
i don't know howing paying off a porn star is not crossing the line and accepting help from Russia in the last election is not crossing the line or using the office of the President to make money at his properties isn't crossing the line or killing children in detention facilities on U.S. soil isn't crossing the line but pressuring the Ukrainian leadership for help in the next election is crosing the line.
32
@ana The same people who say that hush money, election help from another country, emoluments, and wanton neglect are no big deal... are also saying that strong-arming a client state to conduct a phony investigation is no big deal.
Everyone else says that each of these violations is unacceptable. But I guess you missed the lengthy, agonized deliberations into when and how to undertake the most significant, and fraught, political act there is in our country.
10
@ana
The difference is that those others were easier to obscure and confuse. This one is simple and playing out in real time, with solid evidence like text messages and very credible witnesses.
7
Democrats need to stick to their values, as Mr. Trump will definitely stick to his lack of them. Talk about bread and butter issues at town halls and on the road. Let the intelligence committee do the heavy lifting. Then let republicans be the only ones talking about it instead of getting things done.
18
Buying enough tickets to Trump rallies to turn them into shouting matches seems like a good move.
5
"Republicans here and around the country view the Democrats’ inquiry as just one more effort to undo the results of the 2016 presidential race."
I'm sick and tired of reading this line of attack. Any impeachment can be seen as a de facto attempt to roll back an election, with one large difference: it's done for cause. If the president broke the law, abused power, or orchestrated coverups, it's ground for impeachment.
I'm just as sick as the weary attack that "Democrats are too busy impeaching that they're doing nothing for the American people." Who passed over 49 pieces of legislation (out of 51 proposed) that sit languishing at the bottom of Mitch McConnell's inbox?
Give me a break. The only reason Democrats aren't getting their bills passed is Republican obstruction, and fear of having to give Democrats credit.
247
@ChristineMcM
Dems need to make their talking point "Defend the Rule of Law against the Lawless", and not "Get Trump".. More aspirational. Less Partisan.
18
@gratis: I just think the slogan and messaging should be, "Nobody is above the law". Covers an awful lot of characters in this miserable administration.
2
Nick Freitas is such a great legislator he couldn't manage to get his paperwork in on time to run for office in 2019. So I guess he'll have plenty of spare time to hold rallies for the President and criticize his Congresswoman who is dealing with all the horrors of the Trump administration.
18
There are many reasons why a few on both sides support an inquiry:
- The left can make themselves look relevant by reading more fake made-up stories in Congress.
- Trump will get stronger when real evidence starts surfacing.
- News cycle is getting slow and people long for amusement for upcoming holiday evenings.
- Mueller report made for a nice pillow, need another one for the knees.
- Media have another chance at making fools of themselves with election push polls.
2
@Bhaskar Fairy tale, at best.
But, keep obedient to Trump and his lost cause.
24
@Bashkar Ask yourself why no “real evidence” to support Trump’s claims of innocence has been offered. The House has demanded info, the White House refuses to send any. If they have any “real evidence,” You think they’d supply it.
19
@Weave
Trump provided the transcript, the actual evidence. But Nancy Pelosi went ahead with the inquiry without bothering to read what was in it. Mmm. Now where have I heard that one before with Pelosi?
If barely one half of the population supports a belated investigation into the most corrupt person ever to hold high office in this country, and if journalists celebrate this dismaying finding with optimism, then democracy in this country is irreversibly dead.
39
@Ajax Check out the history of Nixon's impeachment. It started off rather unpopular but as more information reached the people it steadily became more and more popular until finally there was no chance of the Senate acquitting him.
Now of course I'm not saying it will go the same way with Trump but the Nixon example shows clearly that it could.
Would that show that our democracy was truly healthy? No, of course not. But it would show that it's not dead. It's up to us to bring it back to health.
57
@Ajax Your comparison makes no sense.
But I guess it makes you feel better to declare everything hopeless. That way you can excuse yourself from trying to make anything better.
5
@Ajax
The impeachment investigation is less than three weeks old. For “barely one half of the population” to support the investigation is actually a sign that Trump is in significant trouble.
At this point in their impeachment proceedings neither Nixon nor Clinton had anywhere near the negative numbers Trump has. And, on a personal note, I was against impeachment until the White House released the “modified transcript” of the Trump/Zelensky call.
At some point, you have to say enough is enough and do what’s right, even if the outcome is not assured.
27
I just read a comment from a NYC resident who said he's sticking with Trump and "will riot in the streets" if Trump gets thrown out. Besides the comment being imflammatory and advocating criminal behavior, it's critical let such people know that if you threaten violence, you will treated by the law as a criminal. We will impeach Trump and not be frightened by outraged bullies who spit on democracy. Incidentally I saw a similar "there will be insurrection" without Trump comment in the WaPo today.
109
While an enormous number of Trump supporters are no doubt prone to criminality, not to mention dumb enough to publicly threaten it, the vast majority of them are like Donald Trump himself: cowards who talk tough from behind a screen but run away and hide from any real confrontation.
65
@Cousin Greg Those militant, well, not so much, will line up behind the Oaf, oops, Oath Keepers, and let them to the heavy work-just as Trump did when he was afflicted with Bone Spurs and Fortunate Son Syndrome.
19
@Paul from Oakland
Threats are easy to make and much harder to carry out.
Trump supporters tend to find safety in numbers (i.e., Fox News). It’s easy to talk a big game — we’ve all seen proof of that for almost three years. It’s much harder to actually play — we’ve all seen proof of that, too.
For now, the threats of his Mad Red Hatters should be regarded much as anything Trump might say, a bunch of bile and bombast signifying nothing.
18
Something tells me Garland Gentry doesn’t have an open mind.
16
The Trump supporters declare, in unison with Trump, the impeachment inquiry is a hoax, a witch hunt, as Trump marches down the path of authoritarian, imbecile and a person who alienates or otherwise abandons our allies.
Trump has a good message, and he is skilled at bamboozling those who are susceptible to gaslighting.
For those who believe that Trump is a grand president, please, ask yourselves about the progress of all of those campaign promises, particularly healthcare coverage and prescription medication cost reductions and infrastructure are coming along. And no, don't tell me those promises will be forthcoming in his second term (should he make it that far).
Tell me how his "I'll be too busy for golf" scree is working out as he spend $3MM per trip of your tax dollars.
And please, tell us how the profiting from daddy Donny's elected office by the Trump kids is different from the accusations of Biden wrongdoing (which has been debunked).
So, in your glee and relief that we no longer have an uppity, educated black man as president, you would embrace a grifter that is more corrupt than Nixon?
Thought so.
160
No poll or survey has contacted me but I support a comprehensive investigation and if crimes or threat to US Nat Security are discovered then I support impeachment.
A compromised President & complicit administration = threat to US Nat Security.
A president &/or admin who looks for personal/political gain above US interests in trade negotiations = threat to US Nat Security.
US officials who undermine the trust & support of US allies = threat to US Nat Security.
FYI, I have been a registered Republican for 30+ years but clearly the current Republican 'leadership' are not serving the interests of the US.
69
@independent thinker - I left the party after G.W. I’m ashamed that it took me that long.
15
It’s heartening to see the tide possibly begin to turn in favor of impeachment. What I think undecided voters need to be reminded of is that Democrats really *do* have no choice but to proceed with an inquiry, rather than simply let Trump’s actions slide and wait to oust him in the next election... because the heart of Trump’s actions involve *trying to game the next election!* If they don’t call out Trump’s attempts to involve foreign governments in our election, how can they or any American be sure the election is legitimate?
30
The Democrats were certain that the Mueller report would claim President Trump was guilty of Russian collusion and obstruction in the 2016 presidential election. Adam Schiff said he had proof of President Trump's involvement. These all proved to be false. The Mueller investigation took over two years and cost a lot of tax payers money.
Do we really want to spend the time and money on the impeachment inquiry which are sure to net the same results. Congress was elected to serve the people not waste time on futile investigations. If they do go ahead with an impeachment inquiry and find no wrongdoing on the part of President Trump, the voters will not be very happy. The Democrats are such to lose the voters support and it may be difficult to gain it back.
2
@KMW Actually, the Mueller report laid out 10 instances of obstruction of justice. The only reason they weren't charged is because of the DOJ's position (which is not law) that they will not indict a sitting president.
While Mueller found insufficient evidence of an explicit agreement with Russia to justify bringing conspiracy charges, there was plenty of wrongdoing and Trump purposefully availing himself of Russia's misdeeds--the fruits of espionage against our county and our recent top-ranking officials--the kind of things that would have made your head spin around had Obama or a Clinton done such things.
I agree with all of your second paragraph EXCEPT for the first sentence.
9
You know the Trump cult is panicking about the surging support for impeachment when they resort to concern trolling. When’s their next tiki-torch march?
20
@KMW
When you say the Democrats may lose support if the impeachment investigation does not uncover evidence of high crimes and misdemeanors, may I remind you of an actual impeachment about 20 years ago?
The Republicans impeached Bill Clinton and, as far as I can tell only two people really lost — Newt Gingrich and Linda Tripp. One person lost the Electoral College but won the popular vote and another lost the popular vote but won the Electoral College. Those people were Al Gore and George W. Bush, respectively.
5
"If we don’t impeach, then what are our principles?”
I agree with this statement.
Also - if this (pressuring a foreign entity to 'get dirt' on your political opponent) is not a grounds to at least start an impeachment inquiry, then what is. We should just get rid of impeachment and wait until the next election.
11
@Maxi
If we did not investigate trump on his admitted shakedown and extortion of the Ukrainian government now, then the integrity of our 2020 election would be in further jeopardy.
Personally, I think the Democrats should continue the impeachment *inquiry* all the way until November 2020 without ever starting actual impeachment proceedings. Let the inquiry bring to light all sorts of damaging information about Trump and his inner circle, as those inquiries usually do and as this one has already started to do.
Damaging information will turn voters against Trump and they will vote him out. Impeachment will instead rile up his base and be seen as undemocratic (no matter that it's being done exactly to protect democracy). Impeachment will give us the gift of President Pence- NO THANKS!!! - whom the Conservatives will then rally around in 2020 and elect.
10
@PCW
I think the prolonged Mueller investigation made a lot of our short-attention span citizens just yawn and say “Oh well. Ho-hum.” I think this impeachment inquiry should be as thorough as possible, laser focused, and come to a conclusion quickly. Let the senate vote on the article(s) and carry that into the 2020 election process.
In order for this country to heal the vitro on both sides of the parties, left and right, although it is more pronounced on the right, must stop and that goes for FOX NEWS as well. Of course this must start at the top with our leader and his advisers like Giuliani and the likes. We must respect each other and each others opinion. Unless Trump and the rest of the leaders in this country do not show some constraint or restraint, and stop this name calling and coarse language then this country will remain divided. We need to learn and emphasize that if this country continues being polarized and divided this country can not move forward. Where is collectively our empathy, morality, honesty, modesty and moral compass? We must put aside our animosity and it needs to start in Washington. This does not mean Washington or Americans should look the other way if criminal activity occurs and or laws are broken for those need to be investigated and no matter who the perpetrators is, he or she need to be brought to justice. We are, after all, a land of laws and nobody but nobody is above the law.
6
Imagine the stories that people who have been in proximity to Trump will feel free to tell when he is eventually imprisoned.
35
It just shows how completely narrow minded and easily brainwashed these Trump supporters can be. I don't understand how this can be anymore clear, it's illegal to ask a foreign government for assistance in interfering in our elections. This is EXACTLY what Trump did TWICE! And for those who are upset that things aren't getting done on wages, prescription costs, etc. it's NOT the Democrats fault. They could spend all day everyday passing bills for wages/prescriptions/healthcare but if the Senate refuses to vote on a single bill what's the point???
62
This whole thing is reminding me of the OJ trials and how justice was eventually served. OJ got off the first time for murder but was caught and convicted in the second one for a much lesser crime. Similarly Trump wiggled out of the Mueller Report but this second investigation is the one that will likely get him. Arrogance and bad judgement is not a good combination.
156
@George - the families of Nicole and Ron would strongly disagree that "justice was eventually served".
But I do see a correlation between Simpson and Trump.
2
This article mentions the website “FiveThirtyEight”. Wasn’t that the site that predicted a Clinton win in early November 2016? Dems simply refuse to learn from their own mistakes.
4
@John Murray Actually, Clinton won by nearly 3 million votes.
81
Wrong. 538 was the only site that predicted a trump win. So there you go.
35
@John Murray
I read the 538 site. They were possibly the only one that published an article before the election saying it was possible Trump could lose the popular vote and win the electoral college. I didn't want to believe them then, but they were on target.
The mention of them here also shows them to be cautious, giving the average of many polls rather than a single outlier (added here by the article author, not by them). They are nonpartisan pollsters, not Democrats.
80
The people deeply indoctrinated into the cult don't want to escape, but I think that there are sane, sensible, patriotic people who voted for trump and are just looking for an excuse to get off the train without having to admit they made a mistake. If enough information gets through about his disgraceful treatment of our allies, the Kurds, I think that could be it. Not standing up for a friend, betraying someone who helped you is something everyone can understand.
66
@Dora - You should check out Breitbart comments every once in a while to get a feel for Trump's base. By and large, they are in favor of Trump's Syrian move stating, "they have been fighting for a thousand years".
About 24% of the country will vote for Trump and continue to put their hand on the television screen to be healed and send money to televangelists so they can hit God's lotto.
26
Many Trump supporters would be okay with a republican dictatorship and then do away with the constitution. The only problem with this thinking is what happens when the new Dictator goes rogue? Many of Trump supporters don’t think beyond their superficial desires. When Trump supporters are asked, “has Trump done anything wrong?” many answer, “no”. The next response should be then you are ok with Joe Biden asking China to hack into the White House server where the other phone calls are saved to help the democrats. The level of ignorance displayed by Trump supporters is a resounding condemnation of the public educational system. Say you understand Trump violated his oath of office and you don’t care and you’d welcome the democrats to do the same.
99
“By their fruits you shall know them .”
If knowing the truth still matters to the majority of the American public in an age where lying has become common place thanks to Trump , then the truth will eventually come out and hopefully the truth will set us free from this man who has held the American people hostage.
In the meantime all we have to do is look at what this president has created thus far. Does this look like someone that we could actually trust? Being of sound mind , I would venture to say that only someone who is delusional would continue to trust a man like Donald Trump.
49
There is an election next year. I find no compelling reason to remove Trump prematurely for President Pence. Let the people not two corrupt parties decide.
7
Totally agree. However, let Congress do their job.
9
@PeterC
I'm not 'looking forward' to President Pence. BUT we have laws, we have a Constitution and the members of Congress made a solemn oath to defend the Constitution. (So did Donald Trump but his oaths have always been meaningless - ask his wives.)
21
@PeterC
Think President Pelosi.
7
I wonder how many of the citizens opposed to the impeachment inquiry would have demanded impeachment if Obama had coerced a foreign government to find “dirt” on McCain or Romney.
214
@Michael Pesch
They were aghast because President Obama wore a tan suit.
69
@Maxi And wanted Dijon mustard, not ketchup. All offense to Hannity, but that's just common sense. Dijon mustard is delicious. Most ketchup is over sweetened and not delicious.
1
@Michael Pesch
I suspect these so-called citizens would not have called for an impeachment inquiry but called to a "Second Amendment" solution.
I believe that is not far from the truth considering the dangerous and hysterical thinking that we see from so many Trump cultists.
5
Aside from an inability to: (1) understand the rule law; (2) comprehend the damage to our foreign policy and to our allies; (3) recognize the importance of freedom of the press; (4) uphold his sworn oath to the Constitution, when have we ever had a President that spews abusive and filthy language into the public forum? Never, until Trump came along.
149
@Marvin Trump supporters share the inability to understand points 1-4 and love Trump because he spews abusive and filthy language. I would add they love him because his message is so simple , unlike that “high-fallutin’l President Obama, who spoke like an educated person. Trump’s “message” is hatred and they eat it up, whether it’s directed against people of color, LGBTQ, immigrants, foreigners, Americans with international backgrounds, successful women, the EU, etc. etc. unlike say Trump’s Ukraine corruption, this hatred is easy to understand, easy for them to get behind and stay behind.
4
No surprise. The more most Americans learn about this thoroughly corrupt administration (just like during Watergate) the more women & independents especially will dump Trump. Will the cowardly Republican sycophants follow? I predict ultimately the answer will be yes... slowly but surely the “wall” is crumbling.
The real issue is what cornered rabid Trump will do? When even his cult members realize that he’s a loser at the Casino.
23
I hope the truth of the impeachment investigations can be made evident to the Trump supporters despite the Fox spin machine.
The Attorney General's meeting with Mercer does not bode well.
20
Divide? 44% of eligible voters don't care, and will not bother to vote in 2020. Other than the 80,000 voters who made all the difference in 2016, the is bleak.
65 million who voted Democrat in 2016 face an impossibly inept slate of candidates, and are led by largely ineffectual Pelosi, Schumer and Schiff; i.e., people incapable of prosecuting anything (never mind impeachment).
The 62 million Americans voted for Trump in 2016 seem dramatically united. They would vote Trump again were he observed terminating people (they will call it fake news, and claim Hillary did it, and suggest victims deserved it).
It is plain nonsensical to assume that elected republicans have principle, and afraid only of being primaried. It is similar nonsensical to assume that more people are embracing investigation; only more democrats are. But, dems' interest is fleeting, they will go back to their self-indulgent self-pity in a short while.
Republicans (elected ones and voters) are afraid of losing a messiah delivering on their wildest dreams: An America hostile to non-whites, destroyed education, environment and justice, the rise of white supremacy, and the rapid movement toward a theocracy, allies afraid and enemies petrified. They are disintersted in investigation, and think Hillary should be impeached instead (yes, that makes sense to them).
What on earth is any investigation going to find that turns Trump voters? At present, nothing at all.
7
@Kalidan If Democrats are "led by largely ineffectual Pelosi, Schumer and Schiff; i.e., people incapable of prosecuting anything," then Trump, Pence, Pompeo, and Giuliani have nothing whatsoever to worry about. They do seem worried though. Odd.
And the point of the impeachment investigation isn't to "turn Trump voters". Trump could be caught robbing a bank and his supporters would blame the corrupt bank manager and two of the tellers, because they're registered Democrats.
The point of the investigation is to see if there is anything to add to the list of Trump's crimes other than extortion and obstruction of justice, both of which have already been proven.
39
@Kalidan asked "What on earth is any investigation going to find that turns Trump voters?" - I too cannot think of anything, except maybe sleeping with a clearly underaged girl. That would do it.
2
@100 acres: Doubtful sleeping with an underaged girl would do it. I’ve often thought some kind of verifiable film of Trump personally performing an abortion in the Lincoln bedroom at the White House might do it but now I’m doubtful of even that.
7
..."scores of Republicans turned out this month for “Stop the Madness!” rallies orchestrated by the Trump campaign."
I wonder if there is any appreciation of the irony of the name of these pro-DJT campaigns.
38
@Voter Scores. Laughable. Just like the largest inauguration crowd ever. It was bigly.
10
Of course the Democrats should be focused on bread and butter issues. But how can we when one of our political parties is absolutely dead set on preventing common sense policies from being implemented? How can we move forward when our democracy, which theoretically reflects the will of the people regarding these bread and butter issues, is at stake? You also can’t address these issues if the President and his henchmen only prioritize enriching themselves. Prescription drug costs won’t go down anytime soon if we are forced to prevent a resurgence of ISIS. As Pete Buttigieg put in a previous debate, the biggest threat to our country is Donald Trump.
39
It would be nice if the folks who think Congress should be paying more attention to prescription drug prices, etc. than impeachment weren't ignorant of the huge number of bills passed by the House that have languished and died in the Senate under McConnell. It would be nice also if the NYT reporter mentioned that productivity under Pelosi in the article instead of letting that ignorance go unremarked.
446
It would also be nice if the Dems ran an aggressive PR campaign and were on TV everyday so that we wouldn’t have to rely on hearsay, and/or NYT articles after the fact demonstrating that Democrats are working hard to push an progressive agenda.
1
@Connie
It would be nice if you knew that smiling and smirking and hacking and meddling Benjamin Netanyahu and Vladimir Putin don't care about Nancy Pelosi.
It would be nice if Stacey Abrams had won in Georgia.
It would be nice if the Senate, Electoral College, Cabinet and federal courts weren't a barrier to democracy.
It would be nice if the Democrats could win a U.S. Senate seat and the Electoral College majority in Georgia.
It would be nice if Nancy Pelosi stopped mocking and marginalizing the Squad Ilhan Omar, Rashida Tlaib, Ayanna Pressley and Alexandria Ocasio- Cortez while offering a bevy of excuses for not investigating nor impeaching Donald Trump.
If would be nice if a Democratic Party Presidential 2020 primary candidate knew and understood the music of Augusta Ga's finest aka James Brown.
3
What gets me about Trump supporters is the consistent claim the media is responsible. Sorry supporters, Trump is a self inflicted wound whose own tweets and statements are the problem not the media.
217
@tom Donald Trump is responsible for everything he has commissioned, including this debacle in the Ukraine.
2
Well we can endlessly play Hamlet and navel gaze on the political what ifs, or Democrats can follow their constitutional obligations, as well as their moral and ethical imperatives, and vote to impeach and convict and begin our long journey to national recovery and rejoining the world of civilized nations.
34
Oh for goodness sakes, impeachment for Nixon polled at what? 13 percent in the beginning and then when the investigation began it became a majority. Timid, timid Dems, if you stand up to a bully and enforce rule of law you get some respect. Now if we can just get the ones in your party who have taken legal bribes and get all money out of politics we will have a democracy. And when we do get money out of politics, and I am giggling at the thought, a lot of so called career, long term politicians who say they do it to serve the people will suddenly give notice. And the lobbyists, oh dear, maybe they can be retrained by The New Green Deal. A slew of people used to benefiting from the ignoring the needs of regular people stranded with out a bribe in sight. Gee the poor things may have to live like the rest of us do, paycheck to paycheck . I love it.
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Concerns on the part of democrats about the potential backlash from an impeachment inquiry are entirely misplaced. Put aside for a moment the fact that Trump has left the dems with no choice but to stand up and defend the constitution. The idea that a thorough and open investigation into Trump's misdoings will help him politically does not make any sense. The more his misdeeds are exposed, the more the public will turn against him. If the Senate fails to convict, all the better. A badly wounded and unpopular president will be running for reelection. People are sure to be upset that he was acquitted in the Senate--so much so, this could mark the worst election for republicans in quite some time. The dems are finally doing it right. And, again, they had no choice. Trump has far surpassed Nixon in his abuse of power. He must be held accountable, no matter the consequences. Our Democracy is at stake.
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Trump's actions are at least suspicious enough to make a Trump supporter curious enough to support an impeachment inquiry. And, I would hope that if/when the allegations are so demonstrated true that Trump supporters would realize that the cancelling of their vote is necessary.
At least one can hope.
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Impeachment survey responses can depend on how the questions are framed. A dismaying number of people believe impeachment is the final step, mandating immediate removal from office when, in fact, it’s more like an indictment. I wonder what the numbers would be if more people understood the process.
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The Democrats have no choice but to go down the impeachment road. As Dumbledore said, “we must choose between what is easy and what is right.” However, I implore them to also mention in the next breath all of the bills they have passed in the House which have gone nowhere in the Senate. It isn’t true that the Dems haven’t been focused on kitchen table issues! Don’t let the Republicans hijack the narrative!
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@Cheryle Kelley
Absolutely!
The Democrats must inoculate themselves against the false narrative of "Do Nothing Democrats" by spending the majority of their time extolling the virtues of the legislation they have passed that the GOP-controlled Senate is ignoring. The Senate and the President are the one's headlining impeachment...not the House Democrats.
And the press is going for it like a trout after a fly.
Get smart, Dems.
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Impeaching a president is the most solemn and important act of Congress, with the exception of declaring the nation at war (something it has not done since 1941). While I believe that neither Trump nor any other president is above the law, they are still entitled to due process of law. The Senate has a constitutional and moral duty to hold a trial, presided over by Chief Justice John Roberts. At the trial, the White House will be able to call witnesses and present evidence.
It is important that the House leadership move with caution to ensure the Inquiry is being conducted in a thorough and balanced manner. I know that Speaker Pelosi avoided a formal vote on the inquiry to shield lawmakers from swing districts. While I understand her not wanting to play into Trump's hand, I still would have liked to see a vote on such a momentous question. The vote to impeach will be transparent and live on television. Lawmakers should be afforded the opportunity (within reasonable time limits) to express and explain their vote.
Democrats like myself are not seeking to overturn an election. What we seek is the truth, justice and to defend and preserve our constitutional system which has truly made America great and indispensable to the world. We move forward with a heavy burden on our shoulders. We did not seek this constitutional crisis, but we have a moral obligation to the nation and to future generations to defend our system of government.
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It is always psychologically difficult for a victim of a con man to acknowledge his/her gullibility and misplaced trust. Trump is nothing if not a remarkably successful con man.
By the way, I hope and assume that someone is now acting to take away the passports of Giuliani and Perry. While they're at it, they should get those of Pompeo, Barr, and Trump as well. We don't want any of them fleeing from prosecution and punishment.
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@AM I would be thrilled if Trump fled. At least he would be out of office
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A quarter of the electorate.
That is the percentage of American voters who are conservative, white, evangelicals.
They will stick with Trump, not despite his misdeeds, but because of them.
It is of course a wild paradox. Traditional Christian teaching insists on character, and mainstream Christians largely reject Trump because of his total lack of it.
But white conservative evangelicals found in Trump and Trumpism an ethno-nationalist agenda like their own. And above all, they found someone—their Divine Warrior—who will do ANYTHING to support them.
And so the paradox: the worse Trump acts, the more evangelicals are convinced he is down in the trenches fighting for them.
It is a pathological relationship between voter and candidate. A relationship which the mainstream church must roundly condemn as utterly unworthy of the gospel, and which in the broader context American citizens must condemn as beneath the dignity of our democracy.
But they will not abandon Trump. They will turn out in Nov 2020, in droves. The opposition had better be ready.
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@Paul McGlasson
Perhaps. But this week, some of the most revered evangelical voices spoke out against the slaughter of innocents in Syria, due to Trump's policies. According to Pat Robertson, Trump may lose the "mandate of heaven" as a consequence. His tone made it clear this could not have been more important to him.
I've heard Mother Teresa speak a few times. Some voices and calls to conscience are more powerful than others.
Some will listen. Some may begin to bring their own consciences into the equation more. Do not underestimate that there were massive cracks beginning in this particular religious support.
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@Paul McGlasson
I, for one, do challenge them, but sometimes it feels like "a voice calling in the wilderness." I've been called a non-Christian (I am a Trinitarian Christian agnostic) and a "Servant of Satan". My progressive and socialist "creds" are also dismissed by "evangelical" atheists. Talk about being between a rock and a hard place!
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@SMB
If you will forgive me, I must challenge what the evangelicals actually objected to.
They objected to Trump’s withdrawal of support for the Kurds, because the Kurds have historically stood guard over a sizable SYRIAN CHRISTIAN population in Northern Syria. They are—rightly—afraid that Erdogan will do nothing for these Syrian Christians and they will be decimated.
All well and good. But that is not Mother Theresa. That is Modi. That is yet another form of ethno-nationalism, protecting your own tribe, or least the tribe who protects your tribe.
Let them show love for the Kurds SIMPLY BECAUSE THEY ARE HUMAN BEINGS, regardless of their religion, and indeed for all peoples on the same basis; and I will be convinced that they have learned the lesson of the Good Samaritan.
No, I think despite the occasional spat, they are Trump’s and he is theirs.
I hope I am wrong, and you are right.
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… but you can’t fool all of the people - not even Trump voters - all of the time.
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@Angelus Ravenscroft
I’d like to agree, but on the subject of foolishness -
I think Mark Twain said... “It’s easier to fool someone than to convince them they’ve been fooled “.
The Trumpers are “ALL IN” and, sadly for most, there’s no turning back. They’re a bitter and resentful lot, and I don’t think they’ll be satisfied till they bring everyone to seeing things the way they see them.
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No, there is no such thing as a political “ do-over.” But, there is something that can ameliorate some of the damage, and put the brakes on the next disaster. The something IS Impeachment, whatever the results. The absolute cure for the Trump Contagion is a thrashing of the GOP/NRA Party in 2020. Only by decimating their power and smug, obnoxious complicity will they learn a lesson. And receive a small measure of the damage they have wrought, and cheered on.
You reap what you sow. Eventually.
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