Surely someone more knowledgeable than I could figure out how to do this, but it seems to me that the number of votes needed to beat Trump is actually very small, if targeted in a few states. Seems to me that if you are retired, live in a blue state, but have a summer house in Minnesota, Wisconsin, Michigan, or Pennsylvania, changing your voter registration to the red state could be helpful. A few thousand voters, well placed, should be able to do the trick.
4
No wonder Occupant loves "low information" voters. After reading this article, there's no other conclusion to reach but this very sad one.
9
As I read the article and comments, there is a common theme: the Democrats need to ...! Perhaps, those that vote Republican need to ask more from their President and Congress people to actually do something for them. They keep voting for the same rhetoric by the right and then have the gall to say the Democrats need to...!
Educate yourself and take your future in your hands and do something rather than wait or vote for someone to do it for you!
6
Do we really care what someone thinks about anything after she has done her own research and found John McCain to be a traitor? She appears as uninformed as out current president and is a clear indicator of why democracy is not working in this country. I am not a Republican, but as a veteran I can tell you that John McCain was not a traitor in any rational sense of the word.
The internet has apparently destroyed people's ability to think rationally and make informed decisions. That does not bode well for the future of our crumbling democracy.
15
Then Erie County will be in sharp focus for the Analyticas of our present day (and there are many). These communications business have all of your personal data acquired from your online preferences and clicks and they have this organized by precincts. Influence campaigns are already in play.
1
Here we go again with “working class” Voter articles who apparently control the whole American electorate according to the New York Times. Well they don’t. And you should start writing articles about all the non-voters who are only motivated to come out for progressive candidates Because for decades they have been forgotten! That is the future
5
Once a trumper always a trumper. My bigoted mother will live the rest of her years without ever having her family together again. I don’t like most of them anyway
10
To all the people who don't believe there were so many Obama to Trump voters, how do you explain all the counties that switched from Obama to Trump? Did the Obama voters all stay home? That was a defacto Trump vote.
3
The paradox of how Trump supporters could vote for Obama twice is based on the false premise that Trump supporters are racists. Maybe... perhaps, half of the people at Trump's rallies are prejudice, but NOT half of the people who voted for Trump are. The media has played their followers like a fiddle. Trump rally participants who make it to the pages of NYT are NOT representative of those at the rally - and those at the rally are NOT representative of Trump voters. Just look at the fancy cars/trucks in the parking lot (if you get the chance). It's all about representative sampling - and manipulation. This faux paradox only perpetuates the myth.
3
Elizabeth Little Feather Warren will eventually get their votes.
@Richard Wright
Well, great! Thanks for your vote of confidence.
1
Yes! Most of us are in agreement:
Please get this giant fraud out of our lives as soon as possible.
Voting him out would be cleaner for the nation, but if impeachment takes him out of the public sphere quicker, then so be it.
Just silence him once and for all.
8
“If Mr. Trump gets into another four years, where he’s a lame duck, it’s going to be like adding gasoline to the fire.”
That’s the most salient and jarring sentence in the entire article.
15
The Vietnam War draft dodger and the emasculated Republican Party persistently trade in double entendre, elaborate obfuscation, and sophisticated hyperbole to convey their toxic messaging to their less than colelge educated, blue collar worker, Caucasian privileged minions that "they" are better than "them," that is, racial minoriteis, ethnic minoriteis, and immigrants whose complexion is not that of light latte mocha. Of course, the western pennsylvania electorate, according to the GOP and its self anoninted Christ like figure, push this agenda of racial and ethnic divisiveness to assure political survival. At the end of the day, though, concrete, positive results count. Job loss and stagnanat wages have a correlatively profound impact upon those one step from bankruptcy or being homeless. The folks in Erie are not accorded a golden parachute of financial releif like the Midwestern farmers who can access the ATM [automatic Trump machine] for $27+ billion in aid jsut to play political gamesmanship with the Peoples Fepublic of CHina about tariffs. The farmers aren't worried, and nor should they be. Their federal handout is right there for the taking. But the folks of western Pennsylvania don't have that option. They find themselves on their own. Farmers will still vote for the draft dodger becasue the money is in the bank! Not in Pennsylvania! Those folks are ready pawns to be exploited in 2020. No more. Put aside race and immigration. Time to standup and reject narcissism.
4
With Trump we finally have the long needed repudiation of the foreign policy establishment of the United States which has blindly led us from catastrophe to catastrophe since the Second World War. It could not have been done without him.
3
Mitch McConnell is purposely and spitefully sitting on legislation from the House. Meanwhile, manufacturing is steadily losing the huge comeback 45 guaranteed would happen on his watch. The economy 45 inherited from Obama continues sliding downward. Not to mention foreign policy and U.S. allies. Then the little thing called impeachment. It still puzzles me how 45 became a viable choice following Obama. That being said it does seem some interviwed in this article are and/or trying to become more informed for 2020.
3
I’d love for Mark Miller to understand the law about asking a foreign nation for help against your political rival:
“Federal law expressly states that it is illegal for “a person to solicit, accept, or receive” anything of value from a foreign national in connection with a United States election.”
Yes, Mark, it’s an impeachable offense. Not to mention it’s not the only one.
I’d also love for him (and just about every evangelical out there) to explain to his Catholic schooled kids how he can support a President who could not care less about religion, but wields faith to con them into voting for him. For someone who begrudgingly voted for Trump to say he’s only 50/50 on voting for a Democrat in 2020 it boggles my mind he could still be in the fence in regard to this cancer on the office, country and humanity.
11
@Carl Bumba:
Your fundamental premises regarding Onama's supposed failure to "connect with the have nots" are, to put it bluntly, absurd. Being far and away the most erudite, mature and compassionate President Eisenhower.
Let's be brutally honest, shall we? Strictly due to Obama's complexion, the GOP **explicitly ** announced that it would be their charter, and their first and foremost goal to see that Obama was a "one term
17
@James
That's the GOP! They got on the 'Trump train' AFTER he got elected. Remember, there are TWICE as many Independents and non-affiliated voters as three are either Republicans or Democrats.
Obama DID connect with the working poor... for about six years.
7
People are scrambling to understand why someone can vote for Obama, or vote Democrat all their life, and then vote for Trump. Easily, the Democratic party has stopped being the party of the American worker.
Democrats need to make economics the number one issue in their campaign. Not social or environmental issues which the average American can't begin to even care about when 4 million factory jobs have been lost to automation in the Midwest and swing States (Trump won those states). Trump spoke to the people who are feeling left behind in this new economy.
Americans can't afford an unexpected 400 dollar expense, and you want to talk about LGBQT rights? We as Democrats need to make kitchen table economics the number one issue in this election, or we'll lose the country to this buffoon.
10
I don't care about Obama-Trump voters. Anyone who would vote for Trump is either a misogynistic, racist, homophobic nativist or, if not, the fact that Trump is all of those things wasn't a deal breaker. Whichever is true, it makes me sad that I live among people that craven.
Democrats need to craft a compelling platform, work hard to unify our base, do the leg work to register new voters and make sure they have access to the polls, and work hard to convince non-voters they have skin in the game. We can win without Trump voters.
14
@aj
A lot of hateful labeling there....
I don't know, aj, every Trump voter you get is like getting two uncommitted voters - and many were more anti-Hillary than pro-Trump.
2
Tyranny by a minority of voters.
20
Thanks to the Electoral College.
6
I'm so sorry, but I don't believe for a moment most of the people who claim they voted for Obama and then voted Trump. No one open minded enough to vote for a black man in this country is going to do a complete 180 and believe a liar like Trump, let alone not believe anything coming out of the media other than Fox News like the ignorant woman in the column rewriting history. I can't say I was much of a Hillary fan, but it defies any type of common sense that this country is safer in the hands of 45 than hers.
19
@Morgan
That it happened isn’t up for debate. It happened. Why is the puzzlement.
It is amazing to me that so many people, especially those in upper classes, can not grasp how their fellow Americans could vote for Obama twice - and then vote for Trump... as I did.
Strange it's not obvious that it is easier for society's less-refined classes to look past Trump's vulgarities. Afterall, isn't it the definition of vulgarity. So, let me try to explain.
Society's "have nots" wanted REAL change. The status quo of the establishment has not been good for them, in their eyes. Barack Hussein Obama did not seem like another establishment politician; but one who could bring REAL change, bring fairness (in their eyes). This turned out to be wrong (his Fed and cabinet picks, including Hillary, were early indications).
Not surprisingly, many felt betrayed. So, in continued desperation they rolled the dice with Trump, who appears to legitimately upset the status quo. Even the Republican establishment, including Fox cable news, ridiculed him up until the nomination (and we now know the Steele dossier was started by Republicans).
When the upper classes now try to tell Trump supporters that they don't know what's in their own best interest - and they don't even realize how insulting this is - they feel even more certain that the "haves" of America are comfortably out of touch.
7
@carl bumba
I probably should qualify that I voted for Trump because I believe that he represented the voice of Americans that were being oppressed by globalized capitalism and misrepresented by the establishment protecting it. My neighbors are good people (who I often don't politically agree with) and not the monsters that more affluent and urban folks (and mainstream media) project... probably to elevate/distinguish themselves. In that election, Trump represented the only grass-roots candidate - it was a vote for democracy, really. Hillary greatly outspent Trump and had the backing of the financial, corporate and media establishments - the professional classes. If Hillary managed to get elected after her (imo) improper and unethical race against Bernie I thought it would set REAL progressive reform back more than just eight years. Trump, unbelievably, was the more honest candidate of the two; his election might also propel Democrats to make major changes that Hillary's election would not. Would the democratic platform look the way it does today if Hillary won? I didn't believe all the sky-falling predictions when Trump got elected; I saw where they were coming from. Twenty years from now we - and our planet - will actually be better off... I hope.
5
@carl bumba
Your use of Obama's middle name is cute. Wonder why you feel the need to do that....
Maybe those dice-rollers should be spending their time doing legitimate research instead of expecting someone to fix all their problems while they shop for MAGA hats and other Trump swag.
Real change takes hard work by all. No politician is a magician and when the Grim Reaper's primary goal is to ruin a presidency getting anything done is way more difficult than it should be.
12
Carl Bumba
You voted for change - how do you like tax breaks for the wealthy, runaway deficits, no healthcare, no. Infrastructure and dirty air and water? Is that he change you wanted?
21
I'm an urban dweller with rural roots. It wouldn't take much for a smart Dem to win rural voters back from the GOP, but it woukd require some major rubber meeting road. Show up, sincerely listen then offer real solutions. Hit at least three key rural zones in as many states as possible. It can be done. Buttegieg's rural plan is impressive, but plans without personal contact won't win votes.
8
Good article. To add some context though, the Western Pennsylvania region has been trending Republican for some time; you can't put it all on "Obama-Trump voters". Of the 16 westernmost counties in Pennsylvania, Bill Clinton won 12, Al Gore won 8, John Kerry won 5, Obama won 2, and Hillary Clinton was down to just 1. The 2016 election was a continuation of trend, not an aberration.
The reality is that, except for a few neighborhoods in Pittsburgh, the region has little to attract or retain younger, more educated, or diverse residents. (Note: the issue is NOT economic; rural parts of Western PA enjoyed solid growth during the Obama years due to fracking). The result is that the region as a whole is left with older and more Republican demographics. This will not be easily reversed, and the Democrats are probably better off leaning into the areas where they are gaining.
11
I think there are enough people that are frankly disconnected from the very real implications of their own political decisions. Some vote to make a statement. They are fed up. And I believe that there are others that vote for a feeling that a candidate gives them; they tried hope and change and now they’ll take a flier on an “outsider”, authoritarian type who talks tough. It’s like shopping for a different look or binge watching a new series. But when we can’t breathe the air or drink the water, and Social Security and Medicare and Medicaid are gone, and college debt will be lifetime baggage, and women’s rights and labor rights become a thing of the past, and one might be asked to produce their papers if they don’t look a certain way, there will be no one to blame but the voters who thought that a demagogue reality TV personality seemed like a good idea at the time.
23
@Red Tree Hill
I think they are disaffected and feel desperate enough to take chances more than they are shallow, aloof or capricious. Their life expectancies are declining.
1
@carl bumba
Trump won precisely because he does shallow, aloof, and capricious better than his opponents.
1
For those who went from Obama to Trump I have two questions:
Would you be comfortable with signing a vendor contract with the Trump organization knowing you would have substantial outlay that you would have to recoup?
If you have a fifteen year old daughter would you feel comfortable with her being alone with Trump for over five minutes?
26
@Milliband
#1 From what I've heard of his past... probably not. But this doesn't mean he's a worse president for the country now than Hillary would have been.
#2 Probably not. But I do have a fifteen year old daughter and wouldn't feel real comfortable about her being alone with any old, male businessman or politician for over five minutes.
I am 72 and eat dinner at 4:30 frequently and have a glass of wine at 4. As you see I live In the crazy state ( just ask Carl Hassen or Dave Barry). Florida is really a great place to live unless you fear golobal warming, BUT WAIT that is not an issue, right. I'm in North /Central Florida and grew up in Tampa but spent 40 years in DC. I moved back to good ole Florida because I feel at home here and homesteaded to try and change the vote. Maybe to much info, however, some voted for Obama here then Trump, I haven't heard a turn in their alligents in my small county. Trump is hitting the high spots of their concerns. Immigrants, guns, health care to anybody and more artillery. His language doesn't disgust them, which I find remarkable because they are women with female children. FLORIDA is not that stupid. Come down an register to vote, please.
2
“is up for grabs again...”
Not simply voters, of whatever party affiliation.
Not “wallets,” from empty to full.
Not ethics, transmuted into human-created “personhood” for developing cells.
Not traumatized children, “kidnapped,” from their parents; abused, neglected and even caged.
Not Kurds, who fought for America, maimed and died, and were betrayed today.
“...grabs...” by the Great Tweeter who shamelessly acknowledged GRABBING...
HE who grabbed and divided a nation; helped by ordinary folk and our complacent and complicity.
HE who grabbed and diminished FACTS and TRUTH.
HE who grabbed menschlichkeit and transmuted it into verbal and active ummenschlichkeit.
What an historical “grab-fest!”
2
These are swing states. The candidates that give them the most attention and demonstrate a plan for their future will be the ones that win their vote. It’s not rocket science.
Have we learned nothing from Obama or Trump on this?
Obama found a compelling message to empower and rally disenfranchised voters from a minority background. It propelled him into office on a platform of uplift and benefit for those that backed him. He saw success here and overwhelmingly won those electorates away from John McCain.
Trump copied Obama’s strategy and went after the marginalized working class white man on a campaign of economic uplift and bringing back local jobs. It didn’t work out that way once he got into power, but it secured their votes.
Hillary on the other hand, didn’t visit those states, didn’t really offer them a platform, decided they were a lock and didn’t invest further. Results spoke for themselves with a massive swing away from the democratic vote.
Hopefully the dems have learned a hard lesson from Clinton’s hubris and will invest more effort in developing policies that benefit all Americans, not just the left leaning millennial/gen Z crowd.
9
So...these people voted for Obama and then the guy who was transparently lying during the thorough disgrace of the birther episode...
Democracy really is the worst form of government—except for all the rest.
14
I just can't seem to wrap my head around why so many of these rust belt voters decided to put their hopes and votes into an elite so called billionaire who not for a moment in his life would ever be around any of their ilk. Trump is so far removed from these folks but yet he somehow managed to convince them all that he was going to save them from their economic plight. In some states, after four years, he has made their lives far worse and only seems to visit when he needs to hold a rally to energize his enormous ego.
23
@Mike
He has made their lives worse? Is that what they say?
1
The retailers are closing shops, trucking and manufacturing is stagnant, UAW strike. Who thinks healthcare for all under Republicans is a fool since they are cutting Medicaid, Medicare and SS. Just how dumb can people be? But the money for opioids treatment is being stolen and where is the most addicts living, and women need old white men controlling your body. Nothing in the red States is better, remember Miss with its toxic water? Until it hits them personally then they will whine. But when they do get hit just hope they don't expect those elites to come help them.
5
@Debbie
The value of unskilled and non-professional labor in these parts has gone up since Trump. There are more jobs and better pay. You can argue "at what cost", but you can't deny the condition, at least here.
4
Obama to Trump. What a swing! Not even the late great Glenn Miller would have been able to keep up with their swing.
7
@HKS
While I concur with most of your comments, it’s very clear most “informed” Times readers don’t understand ordinary folks.
Here’s all you need to know:
Never underestimate the ignorance of the American people.
That includes folks who live in rural America as well as progressives with graduate degrees.
15
@Brian
Includes? You don't really mean the American people, do you? You mean rural people and anyone who might try to defend them, right?
1
@carl bumba
No holds barred. Includes can apply to rural people, those who defend them, and those who attack them.
@Brian
Fair enough - my mistake. But I think we more often underestimate the common sense wisdom of the electorate. I'm sort of a fan of our democracy, I guess.
This is all so depressing. Let me just offer that 95-year-old former President Jimmy Carter is out building houses for the poor with a black eye.
24
I saw Jimmy Carter on TV just as I became old enough to vote. he was doing the old political standby - shaking hands - with construction workers with a hardhat on.
I looked at him and said to myself - "That's a decent man, I'm voting for him."
And here it is 45 later and I was right. He *was/is* a decent man.
My gut instincts are always right.
I didn't vote again until Obama and that was a vote *against* Sarah Palin more than anything else.
1
Interesting the one voter sticking with Trump seems to have an affinity for questionable information—I mean, she did her own research that proved John McCain was a traitor. Whoever the Democratic candidate will be, the campaign will have to realize there will be many lost causes like this. Don’t even bother trying to win their votes.
I agree that the strong economy will be a problem for the Democrats. It will be hard for people to recognize that the economy was already on this trajectory before Trump and hard for people to imagine either that it perhaps would have been even better under a more stable president, or what the increasing deficit may mean to the future. Voters don’t think that way. They fear change—that these “socialists” will mess it all up (I hear it all the time—people who are disgusted with Trump but fear socialism). But nevertheless, there are many people in this good economy who really haven’t seen their lives improve and that’s where the Democrats have an edge. With Trump fatigue and a simple and compelling message that many peoples’ lives can improve, the momentum will be there.
11
@Kally
Questionable information is right. I don't believe someone like that voted for Obama.
3
I see an anti-Federal Government sentiment fueled in part by mis- and dis- information.
At least that’s what I saw in KS.
Some people just don’t trust government and will vote for the one who promises to ‘drain the swamp’ no matter how suicidal that is for their own best interests.
I just hope they don’t take the country and our institutions down with them.
6
I voted for Trump for President to run the country, not as a friend. I would do it again, despite his eccentricities and demeanor.
It is said that he is a crook. OK. Show me one high ranking politician who has not got some dirt in their background.
3
Being a crook is the least of his problems but then as a white man why would you care if he's a racist? That doesn't impact you does it? But when Trump's policies do affect you, remember I won't care because it won't affect me.
3
@Debbie Fine with me. Vote your conscience.
It won't take many to shift the balance away from Trump. He certainly has not expanded his base which every good President must do to lead the nation effectively. It is one reason why there is so much division. He has been unable to add to his razor thin margins of victory.
With the added variable of impeachment his base will be stressed and some of the people that tried Trump and didn't like his un-presidential ways will turn on him. It will be a grind on him and his supporters, just witness the way Republicans are running away from the press when asked about Trump. Even Fox News is short on Trump happy talk these days.
8
Wow! Knowing what we knew and know about Trump some still want to vote for him?
Lyne Daniels say she will definitely vote for Trump again, but claims she has done her own research? Where, pray tell? How can she claim the Mueller Probe proved Trump innocent, because it did not? She is obviously not looking at very reliable sources if that is what she believes. The reason Trump is constantly being scrutinize is because he deserves it. He is a not victim no matter how often he declares it. There is so much wrong doing on his part it is hard to decide where to begin. Every time he refuses to co-operate you know he has something to hide. I am surprised that Ms. Daniels is not troubled by that fact that Trump is playing fast and loose with our laws and the Constitution. If it were not for the machinations of the Republicans, who have chosen party over country, the current fiasco would not be taking place. If the Republican party had any courage, at least some of them, perhaps even enough of them, would stand up to him.
17
The Romney-Hillary vote was 4%. I wonder what the McCain-Hillary vote was.
We also get the 2 terms of Trump-Obama voter, but not the other was around.
There are many thoughtful comments in this discussion, which isn't unusual here at the New York Times. Even those who disagree with each other are civil, for the most part.
That said, I still wonder how much of Trump's victory in the Electoral College was due to voters' actual thinking about him - that he "tells it like it is", "will pivot to become presidential", "will secure our borders", "is a successful businessman", etc. -- and how much was due to complacency. I'd feel more confident that he will lose in 2020, if I knew that it was even a 50-50 split.
Before the 2016 election, I told an acquaintance that I was very concerned about a potential Trump victory. She reassured me that all the polls, and especially FiveThirtyEight [for some reason], showed Clinton with a very comfortable margin.
So, I'm skeptical about most speculation about the 2020 election, especially this far in advance.
3
Nice prose for a horse-race story. I'm getting sick of these. The horse race isn't for another 13 months. Not even the Sports pages are writing that next year's events. Can you imagine anything worth putting on Page 1 about the 2020 World Series? Give us all a break why doncha'?
1
Nope. Voted for Obama. Can’t wait to vote for Trump.
3
@M
Which explains nothing.
5
I don't see the point of Trump's trade war with China which will not see high paying manufacturing jobs return to the USA, but perhaps move to Vietnam while hurting American farmers and increasing cost to US manufacturers.
Hopefully the democrats learned their lesson, not to ignore these voters. It would be great to see democrats come up with a farm policy.
3
@Joseph B — Since Trump is also a globalist at heart one should ask why he’s forcing a trade war in the first place! Normally that should be the job of the democrats to protect American jobs from the international corporate horde. Why on Earth would Trump even give a hoot wether some clothing manufacturer in America would survive when he sourced his own ties from China? Why?!
Well, now his job is not to sell ties; his job is to bring back jobs to America at any cost! The USA only exports 16% of its GDP so he’s in a great position to slam the hammer down!...and that resonates strongly with centrist voters from both sides of the isle, especially when China severely curtails freedom of thought.
Sure, as a human being Trump has been more than a disappointment, that is obvious, but he has his hand on the heartbeat of many dissatisfied Americans who would rather vote for the rock than the hard place which democrats presently offer.
Yes, there should be another way, a better way, but that reasonable person with grand ideas hasn’t surfaced yet.
I don’t need to read this article because I’m one of those people who went from Obama to Trump.
Honestly, back in 2016, I was hoping for Biden and would have picked him over Trump.
But I think he has lost his sharpness and the whole thing with his son being clueless but raking in millions via his dad’s VP credentials is disturbing if not corrupt.
The alternative, Warren, is too aloof and radical. And as a minority, I don’t appreciate her racially misappropriating Native American identity for decades and not coming clean until forced to by her own ridiculous DNA test. And her insistence that her racism wasn’t for her professional benefit doesn’t even pass the smell test.
So I think I’ll be forced to go with Trump. Unless Yang by some miracle somehow makes it as the nominee. He seems sensible and not crazy, and I’ve donated to him.
5
@Jay Lincoln
Bernie might be too liberal for you, but you may find that Tulsi Gabbard speaks the truth, in your eyes.
1
@Jay Lincoln
Hilarious! You’ll be “forced to go with Trump” — even though the things he’s done are far worse than any of the sins you mention here?
5
For some reason, journalists feel that it is important or illuminating when a person says that they voted for Obama in 2016, but voted for Trump in 2020.
I don't believe a word of it. Saying you voted for Obama but voted for Trump in 2016 is de rigueur for these Trump voters. It's their way of saying, "Hey, I'm no racist. I voted for Obama!"
12
I absolutely understand how and why Trump won in 2016. There were enough voters who felt completely abandoned by both major parties, and Trump told them he cared and would work for them. Of course it was all lies and deceit, but the lip service from either party was really no more credible. Sad, but understandable.
What I cannot understand is how anybody could vote for Trump again in 2020. All of the lies and deceit have been laid bare, he has surrounded himself with grifters, and his narcissistic sociopathy would land any other person in an institution. This is a very sick, unhinged, and disturbed man who must be removed from the public before he does real damage.
However, the Dems better get a clear, focused message about how they will help working American men and women, bolster social security and medicare, address the rampant profiteering in our health care system, rebuild our infrastructure, reform tax policy, re-focus our foreign policy on genuine American interests, and address the very real problem of climate change-----or they will find themselves losing yet another election.
11
They voted for Obama and then Trump? Do they just randomly pull levers?
10
@SweePea
A former co-worker made the switch. Her mother started going to Tea Party rallies and got my co-worker to go with her (she initially thought they were ridiculous). Gradually, though, she became convinced that there’s a big Obama-Hillary conspiracy that no one can prove because they’ve either been paid off or killed. Seriously.
Pennsylvania, you are better than this. Thank you NYT for finding some of these proverbial Obama-Trump voters. I thought they were a myth. Being able to to stretch politically from Obama to Trump is a true act of contortion.
5
Please stop writing these types of articles. We get it already... they are words wasted on press space. Spend more time interviewing the people who have supported the “right “ side of history all along...why do you have to cater to the ill-informed who probably don’t read the NYT in the first place? Why is their story more important? A piece on the Gen X voters caught between the Baby Boomer and Millennial complexities would be more interesting. Or, interviewing the ones who have to live everyday next to Trump flags and lawn signs in their communities who have had to grit their teeth since 2016 to get by...
14
I can see a person voting for Obama and saying, "See, I am not a racist". Then voting for Trump and saying, "Well, it's OK to be a racist."
4
@Bear Boy: oh, you mean like the policy of placing tariffs on soybeans such that many soybean farmers are losing their shirts? And then accepting Gov't subsidies that if the money was going to another group it would be called welfare? Got it.
6
Bearboy, you mean like not being racist, or giving women equal rights? Are those the decisions middle America can't stand? Yet when progressive pass legislation you middle Americans come running to get in line first. I hope before the election enough of you get smacked up side the head, be it job lost, losing insurance, whatever to make you wake up.
@DD
Do you consider soybean and other commodity farmers who get farm subsidies typical Trump supporters? These are generally wealthy agribusinessmen and probably make up less than 5% of rural county voters.
Seriously, who cares what these people have to say and why do you give them air. The Democratic Party does not need anyone who put this monster into office to join us. It was clear as day who this man was during the election cycle ... A self-admitted sexual predator. A man who bankrupted six businesses, leaving his contractors and his workers without the money they earned and claiming the "tax credit" for himself. That was his M.O. They attended his rallies where supporters put tee-shirts on babies printed with obscenities about Hillary. He lied about his prowess, his expertise, his working hard on a new and so much better health care plan. He lied about Dreamers. He lied about foreign policy. He hired incompetents. And he asked the Russians out loud and on national television to investigate Hillary's e mails, and ... they delivered the goods.
We don't want them. We don't need them. And our Party would be the worse for inviting them in.
Marylouise Markle
State College, Pennsylvania
11
Trump and the Republicans normalized white supremacy, crony capitalism, corruption and treason in the executive. An amazing accomplishment. Their supporters should be thrilled.
11
Democrats at a minimum need to get out the black vote and the millenial vote to counter the MAGA vote. Hillary thought she had the black vote when she flanked herself with BLM. It didn't work. They did not come out in Obama numbers. Good luck this time. Warner/Booker? Sorry to be this cynical. Also, Warner will need to drop opposition to private healthcare and adopt a Buttigieg type approach to that issue. IMO.
3
Warner? Sadly, Mark Warner isn't running. Maybe you meant Warren...
@Greenfield, I agree; while I think a public option would be attractive to some voters, "Medicare for all" seems too prescriptive and could be an easy target to talk of "death panels" and long waits for care.
btw, while I realize you meant to type Warren, I'd like to see Mark Warner of Virginia run for president.
@Liberal N. Proud
Apologies. I did mean Warren.
1
when they say the impeachment and investigation haven't changed their mind about trump I say what mind' What about all those deals I haven't seen them what about Mexico paying haven't seen it. What about the million jobs coming back I haven't seen 10. He changed two sentence in NAFTA and claimed victory where are the jobs Donnie He is a born con man and these suckers have been con and are to stubborn to admit it
11
Voting for Trump after Obama should be included in the definition of “oxymoronic” in the dictionary.
10
It's baffling how Trump voters make no correlation between their fear and the Trump Presidency. On the other hand, maybe it's not so baffling. Low information voters who believe nothing but lies fed to them by FOX news are the sheep fascists l9ve. I despised what their vote for Trump has done to our country. Now I despise them too.
8
Sadly, Black Lives Matter and the pre-MeToo movement inadvertently elected Trump.
Divide and conquer, as it were.
3
Given that they voted for Trump, do I really have a reason to listen to anything they say?
I demand no mea culpas and no apologies. But I think they should just be quiet and reflect on the damage they have done.
16
@Cary
You must know that they don't see all that damage that you see.
1
It's been too long since we had a tremendous upheaval like the Depression or WWII and the voters are complacent, unwilling to get passionate about anything, viscerally responding to biases when they do get impassioned, and evidencing feeble brain power.
The upheaval is coming and they're not prepared for it and not prepared to think seriously about serious decisions. But we've been here before and we'll survive Trump and the coming climate problems.
@HelgaGiselaMeisterzock We'll survive Trump, I think. Not so sure about surviving the coming climate problems
3
I don't understand the idea that it's hard to know what to believe. It's not hard to find the truth in journalism. Any mainstream outlet will be accurate. Any conservative media will be propaganda. There, an easy guide, right? Am I missing something? These people seem willfully motivated to be confused.
14
I don’t understand it either. Even high school level you learn how to write a research paper, gathering multiple sources of info, weeding out fiction from fact. How can grown adults act so helpless? Pick up a newspaper and read! If you’re confused, READ!
11
@Alex9
90% of news outlets are owned by five media corporations. Probably three of the top 25 news outlets can be considered conservative. Wikipedia spells it out pretty well, IMO. It's not so black and white.
1
I am blessed... I have few friends or family members who voted for Trump; but I do have a couple who were also cross-over voters-traditionally Democrats, feeling general dismay at the state of politics and not terribly impressed with either candidate. Both have acknowledged that Trump is 'horrible.' They believed it was largely an act, and that he would govern from the center. One will not vote for him again; the other, unfortunately, is saying she won't vote at all.
7
@Pat Bindrim Not voting at all is voting for him.
3
@Mac7429 Trust me, I have made that point. I can only hope that she changes her mind. At least it's one less vote that Trump will get...
1
Conned by the ultimate con man. Tough talk and bluster have replaced careful thought and reason.
The level of deterioration in the electoral process by a certain mind set has created havoc for the rest of us and our allies.
We can only hope that salvation exists in the few who realize the tragedy they have unleashed and vow to correct it next time.
4
Trump may be reelected if the final Democratic candidate does not declare unequivocally that illegal immigration and unconditional abortion are NOT tolerable.
2
It's taken me a while to get there, but I think the Democrats need to go full Elizabeth Warren - make a stark difference between the candidates, and I don't think she will let Trump bully her in the way that Biden already has. Warren needs to visit these counties and make her case. She will never get Wyoming, OK, or Idaho. She could potentially get the metropolitan areas of TX, FL, OH and PA. That is where the race is won or lost. Part of the reason people didn't vote for Hillary was sexism, but I also think there was this underlying sense of entitlement - it was her Right to be the first woman President. She just didn't come across as genuine. Hard core Trumpers are not going to vote for the Democratic nominee regardless of what happens. I doubt Trump will be convicted in the Senate unless something so earthshaking and criminal comes forth that it just cannot be explained away. Trump must be defeated at the ballot box in order for him to be unable to say there was "a coup" or that the Democrats in Congress denied him his office. If Trump is not ousted, we are going to be a shell of a nation by 2024. Just look at the events of today with Syria and Turkey.
6
@dairyfarmersdaughter
I did like her comment in the last debate about small farmers (like us) compared to corporate farms. But I'm afraid she, too, may not be so genuine. Like Hillary, she ran a faux campaign for senate (just last year) to gear up for her real objective, the presidency. How can she explain all the false concerns and promises she made in Massachusetts during her campaign. She carried over 10 million dollars from it to this campaign, collected even more corporate/PAC money and THEN made her small donation pledge. I'm about 1/8 Cherokee and wouldn't dare try to get ahead using it since I've been to reservations and know what they have to deal with. Tulsi Gabbard will likely get the Native American (including Cherokee) vote.
1
"---we had to listen about Russia, Russia, Russia for two years and they were wrong"! One doesn`t have to be a supporter of Trump to agree with that. The "liberal" media supported the Iraq war day after day after day and they were wrong - they should have learned the lesson. The public deserve better - bias and prejudice in the media have social consequences.
4
@Dominick Eustace Not paying attention Dom. Trump was not exonerated according to Mueller.
7
@Dominick Eustace
Right on.
1
@Mac7429
He was exonerated with respect to the allegations against him, not with respect to all things bad.
2
Just maybe, 'they' would have voted for Bernie.
5
It beggars belief how any sane human feels connected in some way to Trump, that somehow he is "real" and understands their concerns. In what way can an individual who spends his days watching Fox News and has lived off the earnings of his dad, has bankrupted numerous ordinary people and treats women and people of color like objects to be ridiculed, in what way does that make them trust this heinous man? Let alone the fact that he is a criminal, has been credibly accused of rape and is now working to undermine the very institutions that underpin our fragile democracy? And why oh why do folks keep saying they want to see some action on things that matter to them, have they been asleep for the past year when Democrats started passing numerous bills that Mitch McConnell would not even bring to the floor of the senate.. What is wrong with these people?
11
@Sally M
Can't they have a different point of view and different politics, but not be 'insane' or have something "wrong" with them?
2
I am heartened that most voters featured in this article realize they made a bad bet on Trump. As for Ms. Daniels' desire to double-down on Trump 2020? She seems unwell.
20
This continues to reflect the stupidity of the Americans people. Very sad
2
The “They” in this article are middle class workers. The 2020 elections is, has to be about empowering workers.
While Mr. Biden is a decent person, let’s not forget that last week, according to Bloomberg, VP Biden held two campaign events and ten fund raisers. In one fund raiser “Biden’s campaign gathered about 100 top donors for a summit in Philadelphia, where it delivered briefings from top campaign staff, a tour of its campaign headquarters, and a 90-minute visit with the former Vice President.” Ignoring voters for “major donors” is the template that’s been used by both parties, with current results. These “major donors” mitigate risk by contributing to both parties. Bottom line, Mr, Biden is too status quo, which is what the Democratic establishment supports.
6
I’m so sick of these types of articles. They types remind me why the Electoral College has to go. The opinions and votes of early primary and swing states are all that seem to matter. The majority of citizens don’t count, as demonstrated by HRC’s 3,000,000+ vote plurality “loss”.
16
Unfortunately, all-to-clearly, this article shows that people don’t really think about the consequences of short-term thinking over long-term outcomes. Or actually a lack of thinking on any critical level.
Trump’s “economic” policies have ballooned the deficits faster than the ability of to pay it back in the future. With growth the only GOP mantra, the deficit will likely hit 2 trillion if Trump is re-elected. That is really bad.
Environmental pollution is increasing, limited energy resources are being used at unsustainable rates with no though of sustainability.
Foreign “policy” is just random and based on the tactics of a third-grade bully. Old allies are being ridiculed and abandoned.
Democratic principles are being eroded to keep the GOP in power—and are working too well. The oligarchy has won.
Long-term, we now have inaction or damaging actions on several fronts due to Trump. Another four years will see no needed improvements on energy, the environment—including climate issues, and debt/deficits. Why anyone would consider Trump a reasonable president is mind boggling
18
Regardless of one's political preferences, and with all respect, I am saddened to read the quote from the voter in the article who referred to John McCain, who almost died for this country, and was tortured for years as a prisoner of war, as a traitor. Senator McCain was a hero, a man of stunning courage, who refused to be released from years of captivity in Viet Nam ahead of his fellow prisoners. So difficult to fathom how one can trash him while praising this president.
25
@Ilene Starger I too am saddened and exasperated by people like this, and I agree with the comment from Jolton of Ohio: Ms. Daniels appears unwell.
6
@Ilene Starger, that statement really stood out. It makes no sense.
So, the only interpretation I can make is that she believes that anyone who disagrees with Trump's most recent pronouncements is a traitor. That's a pretty low bar, considering that Trump changes his opinions within a few hours, or even within one of his rambling speeches.
3
The Neanderthal Electoral College got Trump in not the voters. Trump lost by 3 million votes. Abolish it now.
The horrific last 3 years would have never happened.
24
I’m not sure I need any more stories about Trump voters. How about stories about non-voters and activists? How about stories that show how to get the most political bang for your buck or time?
9
I can’t believe that the fate of our country is in the hands of shallow, uninformed people like this. Why are they allowed to vote? It’s appalling.
12
@John Ranta Elites Like You is Exactly Why We Need The Electoral College
1
She called Senator John McCain, the 2008 nominee, “a traitor to this country,” adding, “I’ve done my own research.”
I think what Ms. Daniels really means is that Rupert Murdoch has done her research for her while simultaneously draining her brain of some sorely needed IQ points.
Good Lord.
40
@LLDove You're right. McCain was deeply flawed as a naval aviator, as a senator and as a human being. He had a lot to answer for, some of which he never did answer.
But he served. He flew that Skyhawk into triple A and spent five years in that horrid cell. He was anything but a traitor. It pains me see people say that of him.
10
It is very disturbing see so many good people who voted for such an irrational individual. Is America, the original democracy of modern times, really ready to give up so easily?
3
How is that possible? The Democratic platform is completely different. On the environment, on LGBTQ rights, on a women's right to choose, on healthcare, on regulations, on worker's rights, on taxes, on workplace protections, on public education, on college assistance, on repealing Citizens United, on Net Neutrality, I mean, seriously, the list goes on and on. I am not a New Yorker, don't need to be to know what Trump is, his family, and now what the Republican party has become, what they were well on their way to becoming. Serious?! Patriots, scant evidence of that. When the economy slows and falters, then people will start to notice the decline of America, will Republicans continue to blame Obama? Trump was gifted an economy strong and growing thanks to Obama. Bizarre, how can you vote for Obama and then Trump? Where is the critical thinking?
15
@DemonWarZ
Your post is typical of a Democrat. I call myself a progressive because the Dems are so clueless.
The problem is not what the Dems stand for, it is how they message it, which is terrible. It is all this long list which, for all the agreement you will get, is boring. Do what the GOP does, which is focus on one issue. It is not necessary that one delivers (another Dem mistake), as the GOP delivers zero of its promises. It is necessary that it reaches a large number of people, and that ALL the Dems declare it as the priority, whether it is or not. "Jobs, Jobs, Jobs". "Repeal and Replace". The Dems have the advantage of what they make promise, they can deliver through solid legislation. Still fumble the job.
As for critical thinking, "Unfortunately, we need a majority"
Democrats should be laser focused on registering and turning out new voters, and ensuring voters that stayed home in 2016 turn out to vote in 2020. These Trump lovers will not come back and vote for them.
5
@James I am not sure whether all of the emphasis on money collected making you eligible to continue on in the debates is such a great idea. There are large numbers of college students who are eligible to vote and every effort should be made to get them registered and to the polls. But how many of the them are going to be sending off money to a candidate, even small amounts, so that that candidate can continue in the debates.
My own niece, a college freshman, is very politically aware and I know she will vote. Yet I can’t see her emailing donations to a candidate, The voice of these young voters must be included in keeping the debate going and choosing the best candidate in the primary.
1
75% of Trump voters will never vote for a Democrat.
Good luck finding the 25% who will.
3
The most significant thing in this article is the paper's appended link in the middle, which says, "Trump’s unfounded allegations about Biden and his son have been the biggest campaign challenge to the former vice president yet." This is not news, just an unsupported, biased claim indicating the Anybody-But-Biden agenda we have seen here for the past several months, an agenda that is becoming more and more pushing Warren.
The most illuminating comments in the article are from Lyne Daniels which, among other things, support my contention that the internet is a much greater threat than Donald Trump and will be at work creating havoc long after Trump is gone.
Perhaps it is just that internet has come to resemble religion, where the devotees choose (or grow up in) a variation that confirms what they already believe, both hopes and fears, without regard to the support of evidence, truly a faith-based narrative. Maybe the internet will actually become the religion of the globalized, "secular" age. After all, how different are Google and Wikipedia from those religions in which some person communicates with God and passes on His (sic) truth? How different is a Facebook "community" from that of one's religion? How different is Apple from any company that sells artifacts of a religion?
If the Democrats want to turn counties such as Erie and win the Presidency in 2020, they would do a lot better to listen to country music than listen to the punditocracy, twitterti, and commentariat.
3
The most illuminating comments in the article are from Lyne Daniels which, among other things, support my contention that the internet is a much greater threat than Donald Trump and will be busily at work wreaking havoc long after Trump is gone.
Perhaps it is just that more and more the internet resembles religion, where the devotees choose (or grow up in) a variation that confirms what they already believe, both hopes and fears, without regard to the support of evidence, truly a faith-based narrative. Maybe the internet will actually become the religion of the globalized, "secular" age. After all, how different are Google and Wikipedia from those religions in which some person communicates with God and passes on His (sic) truth? How different is a Facebook "community" from that of one's religion? How different is Apple from any company that sells artifacts of a religion?
The significant thing in this article is the paper's appended link in the middle: "Trump’s unfounded allegations about Biden and his son have been the biggest campaign challenge to the former vice president yet." This is an unsupported, biased claim, not news, more of the Anybody-But-Biden agenda we have been seeing here for the past several months, an agenda becoming more and more pushing Warren.
If the Democrats want to regain counties such as Erie and win the Presidency in 2020, they would do a lot better to listen to country music than listen to the punditocracy, twitterti, and commentariat.
1
From the poll, the only people that answer random house calls were 60% 50 'n older, wealthy white people.
Not terribly surprised at the poll results.
4
Fundamentally, a vote for Trump in 2020 after his performance since 2016 is an immoral act, if not suicidal for American democracy.
12
Ignorance and arrogance. Frightening combination.
If you vote for Mr. Obama in one election and man in the other you are not sufficiently informed to vote.
This article is embarrassing.
I don't know what else to say about it.
3
I always thought when you are registered for a party, that is the party you will always vote for. It just seems to me very odd that someone voting for Barack Obama would then vote for Trump.
@Tonjo When I was young, a very long time ago, it was preached to me that you voted for the man, not the party. Or the woman.
In my state you must be registered as a D or R in order to vote in a primary so most get registered. In my city elections for a long time I never voted as a Democrat because the Democrats were crooked. Still are.
But there is no Republican party left in my city and now even if there was I wouldn't vote Republican for dog catcher, as they say. I always voted Democratic in national elections
1
Trump voters, the 'left behind' ones, need to read ALL of Hillary's comment, not just what was fed to them over and over by conservative media and politicians. She said that one basket of Trump voters were those who felt left behind, forgotten and that she felt for them. When she said coal jobs were gone, it wasn't what SHE or Obama had done, it was the trend for decades - she proposed bringing in other industries into current and former coal country, something big coal never wanted to do and that Trump has not done. Would she have succeeded? Who knows, especially with conservative politicians whose only purpose seemed to be to get in the way of ANYTHING proposed by democrats - witness how unprepared conservatives were to replace the Affordable Care Act despite having whined for 8 years.
12
If the Democrats want to turn counties such as the one referenced in this article and win the Presidency in 2020, they would do a lot better to listen to country music than listen to the punditocracy, twitterti, and commentariat.
1
They voted for change. It is really that simple. They haven't gotten it. They probably won't get it unless they remember Mao's wise words.
Joe Biden is by far the candidate who will be most damaging to America if he wins in 2020.
3
@Silly More damaging than the man sitting in office that lies pathologically, plays footsies with dictators, thinks our intelligence services are the real enemy, starts unnecessary trade wars, encourages other countries to meddle in our elections, and very likely suffers from profound personality disorders?
5
All well and good, but there are no excuses now. Trump has got to go. Beelzebub himself would be a preferable choice at this point.
9
I don't have a high opinion of those who believe the good old days are coming back; nor of those who believe Trump is the Wizard of Oz.
3
There's something to the argument that people want change, which is why they went for Obama and Trump. Obama was a brilliant orator who won people over with a message of hope and change. Trump took the populist approach and won over a lot of people who didn't like the status quo. Elizabeth Warren is the closest thing we have to Obama. However, she may have dug her own grave by taking positions that are unpopular with the majority of the electorate.
6
@PJ - Really? A majority of the electorate don't want affordable health care and education, a living wage and clean air and water?
5
They don’t want open borders, free healthcare to illegals, free education, and the worst - Medicare for all ( and taking away employer healthcare)
2
@DR
Of course they do if they're presented like that but it isn't how the debates framed them. The toothpaste is already out of the tube and a gift to the GOP propaganda machine.
Like many other attempts to survey and predict the voting behavior of a general slice of (name the interstate exit cluster away from our biggest metro areas), one of this story's clearest implications is that the country needs to bring back universal civics classes.
But the undercurrent is that people who get off at those exits (many achievers in New York and Washington) don't quite share the same reality as the people who get on at those exits (people who live there).
If there is going to be an end to Trump and his illness, it will because of economic issues. Promises not met. Lives facing financial ruin.
It is a long time between now and the 2020 elections and already there are clear signs that the economic decline is taking its tole, not just on coastal house-holds, which were targeted in the first round of tax cuts, but in middle America as well.
Farmers, wake up! And that includes all persons that make their living on agriculture. Auto-workers, wake up! And yes that too includes everyone relying on the robustness of our auto industry. The list goes on and on.
In the end, what will carry election day will be the economy. And I suggest that things will only get worse - not better - between now and election day.
Whomever will carry the Democratic banner into election day should just focus on that. It is the best card to play.
1
If you don’t believe in socialism why do you support the President of the United States, Congress, the United States military - Army, Navy, Air Force, Coast Guard - the National Guard, State Guards, the Border Patrol, Social Security, Medicare, US farmers and the entire US agricultural system, national, state, county and city police, firemen, all first responders, the entire interstate highway system, 50 state highway system, county roads systems, city road systems, all the auto companies, (domestic and foreign) the aviation industry (every corporate airline corporation in the world), public education, professional sports, the mining industry, cattle ranchers, the dairy industry, the fossil fuel industry, college sports, water companies, local, state and national sanitation systems, national, state, county, and city parks, high school football, the train system, the financial industry, the pharmaceutical industry, the medical industry, the telephone monopolies (cell phones and satellites were invented and financed by the US Government and the US Military), building inspectors, on and on, etc.?
7
@DSD
The real world fact is that low taxes hamper growth. The most successful societies are high tax ones.
(How much money the rich make is not a sign of a successful society, the opposite, in fact. And when I say fact, I mean verifiable data exists).
2
Haven’t we had enough of pandering to these “swing” voters? The silent majority who just want to maintain the status quo and want better for *their* families but don’t care about the rest...?
It’s time to wake up. The world is on fire, our constitution is being used as kindling, and there won’t be food, water, or clean air for the generation being born today, let alone healthcare and social security.
We need to move forward without these voters who are begging to be pandered to. Obama did it, Trump did it, and now they want someone else to. There are serious pressing concerns today that affect the ability for life on earth— if they aren’t willing to stop gazing at their navel and recognize their role in this situation, then they aren’t worth spending thousands of words on every few months.
10
They voted for Obama because they Hoped for Change.
When it was discovered Obama was just a Republican in Democrat clothing, these voters felt duped and wanted to blow up the whole Washington power complex. Trump ran on Draining the Swamp.
The DNC gave voters Hillary 'Swamp Personified" Clinton. Voters were not enamored of her and chose Trump or staying home.
Now that the Trump bait & switch has been performed the Democrats need to put one of the progressive candidates, with a proven track record, on the ballot or risk no voter turnout.
2
@Moana Obama was a Republican? So a Republican ushered in healthcare for tens of millions? A Republican supported same-sex marriage?
The Far Left will lose the election again if they insist on picking someone so far outside the mainstream of most Democrats and then taking their ball and going home if they don't like a more centrist (but still very much Democratic) candidate.
2
As a Michigander (I relocated in December, 2016), I predicted trouble for Hillary Clinton. Why? 1) Bernie Sanders won that state’s primary; 2) Ms. Clinton refused to disavow support from so-called “Super PACs,” as Mr. Sanders had done; 3) Conservative media had made Ms. Clinton’s use of a private server during her tenure at the State Department, and thousands of missing emails, a “red meat” issue; 4) Ms. Clinton steadfastly refused to release transcripts of paid speeches she had delivered to Wall Street nabobs; 5) The Democratic National Committee remained committed to the very UNdemocratic practice of sequestering the support of “Super Delegates,” who had pledged support for Ms. Clinton long before the party’s national convention was held; and, finally, 6) Nationwide polls consistently suggested that nominating Mr. Sanders would have been a better bet for the Democrats than nominating Ms. Clinton. I was NOT surprised (given the existence of that LEAST democratic of American institutions, the Electoral College) to wake up, the morning after Election Day 2016, to the news that Donald Trump, despite losing what is ironically referred to as the “popular vote,” had “won” the presidency.
The electoral college has obviously failed in its mission to preserve us from an ill-advised choice by the American electorate; it’s (past) time we abolished it.
6
I am a firm believer that when somebody tells you who they are, you should listen. Donald Trump has been telling us who he is for a very long time now. He is a cheater, a whiner, a liar, and a con and all you have to do is a little bit of research into him to know this. People rarely change without a really good reason to, and his life has been a long reinforcement of his completely unfounded belief that he is exceptional. Even if I believed in the Republican party's traditional values, which I never have, I couldn't have voted for Trump because of my research into his life. I don't believe that the theoretically improved economy (it really isn't any better for 90% of us anyway) is due to the activities of a six time bankrupt, and even if it were, that wouldn't be enough to make me overlook the moral bankruptcy of Republicanism today.
7
As one who lived in Erie and a former neighbour of Mark Miller I believe we need more Americans like him in our democracy...let’s get back to work at our country...and be civil.
Who cares what they say? These people have no moral core or direction, and whatever they “say “ today will change tomorrow. I care only what they DO.
5
I notice not one of those saying they may vote democrat again in 202 expresses any interest in voting for a woman. Shall we just chalk that up to random chance?
3
She says as his Twitter distracts the media, "Meanwhile over in the corner, we’re working on this thing nobody knows about.” Exactly, that is what scares us.
4
The idea that there is nothing in the Mueller report as stated by one of the interviewees is crazy making. I would strongly recommend them to read the report! If nothing else it is proof that the President and his children repeatedly lied to the American people. If that is okay with you, having the President and his adult children lie repeatedly, then you are in a whole different league.
7
I can see why folks would want a disruptor, maybe even be attracted to an authoritarian-style strongman... but why would DONALD TRUMP be your pick? Anyone who takes half a second to think about it can see he's no substance, all ego. And not a particularly effective statesman, either.
Yeah, he's good at distracting the media and making the libs cry. Cool. How's your life going?
8
I must admit that seeing all those Trump supporters standing around in those stadiums listening to him talk and talk and talk. Then he tweets and tweets and tweets. And it’s all just trash talking, just endless trash talking. Then people fire off weapons, throw empty beer cans around. Then they all talk about what a wonderful experience it all was.
It’s a lifestyle.
6
The title of this article tells you all you need to know. "I gave the other guy a shot." Obama-Trump voters knew exactly what they were doing when they turned on their country and voted for a racist, misogynist demagogue. The only way they can bring themselves to talk about it is by not referring to Trump by name.
Sorry folks - this one is all on you. You are directly to blame for this mess that we are in. Voting blue in 2020 helps correct the problems you caused, but it does not absolve you of the responsibility you hold in bringing them about.
6
If a sexual affair of Bill Clinton was the basis for his impeachment, Donald Trump's sexual deviance with his corruptive political activities and the complete lack of morality should give 1000x more reasons to impeach him.
4
Love Trump, he will find you.
1
If you voted for Trump I can without doubt discount your opinions since you lack a grasp of reality. That is unless you did expect Trump to tear down the country. I know many Trump voters were expecting exactly that. Anyway, if you thought he would be a good president you lack a working mind. If you thought he would cause pain then your a sadist.
I think Trump isn't even the real problem. The problem is that both the people and politicians are more loyal to corporations (the owners of the government) than they are to the country.
3
I can't think of any good excuse for voting for Trump.
Not then, not now.
The problem being that people make mistakes. We all do.
And then we provide solutions. As in Trump is a lame duck.
1
I do not care what they have to say.
3
If you voted for Obama and then Trump...you cannot take American politics seriously.
4
The people who say they are voting for Trump sound suspiciously like his tweets. Lots of exclamation points with lies in between. Probably plants or trolls. Because at this point no one with half a functioning brain can conceive of voting for this chaotic, unhinged, non compos mentis crook.
3
There are 2 aspects to someone voting for Obama and then Trump: a) not paying enough attention to or having enough understanding of (is there a difference?) policy to recognize the difference betweent the two before voting for Trump, and b) not paying enough attention to or having the ability to recognize from Trump's behavior during his campaign what a nasty buffoon and ignorant jerk Trump showed himself to be in stark contrast to Obama's admirable behavior before and during his presidency.
What scared people about Obama rested on what was said about him, what was made up and screamed to the hills - secret muslim, socialist etc. - whereas what I and others don't like about Trumps comes directly from his own mouth and tweets, and policies. These are not equal, not flip sides of the same coin at all.
4
The most illuminating comments in the article are from Ms. Daniels which, among other things, support my contention that the internet is a much greater danger than Donald Trump and will be busily at work wreaking havoc long after Trump is gone.
Perhaps it is just that more and more the internet resembles religion, where the devotees choose (or grow up in) a variation that confirms what they already believe, both hopes and fears, without regard to the support of evidence, truly a faith-based narrative. Maybe the internet will actually become the religion of the globalized, "secular" age. After all, how different are Google and Wikipedia from those religions in which some person communicates with God and passes on His (sic) truth? How different is a Facebook "community" from that of one's religion? How different is Apple from any company that sells artifacts of a religion?
4
I did not vote for Trump in 2016--I never even considered it for a moment. But I am actually considering it for 2020.
Why?
Because the crop of Democratic candidates is truly frightening. And the media that found its fighting spirit after spending eight years giving President Obama tummy rubs, will lose its zeal and return to giving tummy rubs to whatever Democrat wins.
Trump has not been able to damage the country as much as his critics claim precisely because they ... and the media ... are holding him accountable.
On the other hand, those same folks cheer leaded Elizabeth Warren as she created the CFPB, which is unaccountable to the President or Congress, gets its funding directly from the Fed, and makes up its own rules without judicial oversight. She wants to bring that authoritarian model of governance to even more sectors of the government, to the applause of the press.
I find that much scarier than the prospect of another four years of a largely ineffective Trump.
3
@Liberty hound
"...Trump has not been able to damage the country as much as his critics claim..."
No, he's actually obliterated environmental regulations, ignored climate change, increased wealth inequality, created the most divisive atmosphere in our history, made us the laughingstock of the international stage, and loaded the courts with activist conservative judges (who hew to the 1% and Christian Taliban).
Oh, and he's also a dishonest, lying crook.
Naw, he hasn't done any damage...
9
Were they aware that Trump was a failed business owner whose source of income was a 'reality' tv show based on the false image created by his late father and a clever producer? It was extensively covered by the media.... almost as extensively as the A rated Clinton Foundation's stellar programs around the globe, Hillary's many successes as SOS, and Trump's legal problems current and past, failures, bankruptcies, self-dealing with charity donations.
9
Can any of the Democratic candidates come out and say that they don't like illegal border crossers? It seems they don't even have the guts to say that breaking the law and crossing the border illegally is wrong and will be punished. That would help them regain a lot of Trump supporters.
7
Beyond the economics or social transgressions or whatever you want to cite in his list of traits, the incompetence is the worst of them. Having someone who doesn’t know how the parts of our system work, a captain that can’t steer the ship, is the most dangerous part. But people voted for him anyway. He’s not unconventional. He’s falling flat on his face and right wing media is glossing it over as if he stuck the landing on a complex gymnastics routine.
8
There appear to be three general groups of Donald supporters. One is comprised of wealthy people who simply knew Donald would lower their taxes and reduce regulations that cut into their profits. They didn't care about anything else, and will remain in Donald's camp as long as it is in their (short term) financial interest to do so.
The next group is comprised of conservative Christians who want to force pregnant girls and women to give birth. If they can tip the SCOTUS to support the rest of their religious agenda, all the better. These people are unlikely to abandon Donald, but might consider it now that the SCOTUS is safely theirs.
The last group is comprised of people like those mentioned in this piece. They are struggling financially and dealing with the awful byproducts of prolonged economic stress: health problems, marital discord, family conflict and crippling anxiety. Desperate and confused, they are willing to blame immigrants, women, non-Christians and college-educated "elites" for their circumstances. They feel cheated, powerless and ignored, and lack the sophistication to see that with platitudes, promises and phony praise Donald is playing them for fools. They don't want to abandon him because doing so would mean admitting they were duped.
21
The most significant thing in this article is the paper's appended link in the middle, which says, "Trump’s unfounded allegations about Biden and his son have been the biggest campaign challenge to the former vice president yet." This is an unsupported, biased claim, not a piece of news, indicating the Anybody-But-Biden agenda we have been seeing here for the past several months, an agenda that is becoming more and more simply pushing Warren.
The most illuminating comments in the article are from Lyne Daniels which, among other things, support my contention that the internet is a much greater threat than Donald Trump and will be busily at work wreaking havoc long after Trump is gone.
Perhaps it is just that more and more the internet resembles religion, where the devotees choose (or grow up in) a variation that confirms what they already believe, both hopes and fears, without regard to the support of evidence, truly a faith-based narrative. Maybe the internet will actually become the religion of the globalized, "secular" age. After all, how different are Google and Wikipedia from those religions in which some person communicates with God and passes on His (sic) truth? How different is a Facebook "community" from that of one's religion? How different is Apple from any company that sells artifacts of a religion?
1
It blows my mind that there is even a single American who is on the fence about Trump. After what the world has witnessed since he was installed, how can anyone rationalize his continued occupation of the White House?
17
In short, people who vote for Trump watch Fox.
That network is one of the biggest reasons we have a president like Trump.
13
I hope the NYT will run an article about the bills that passed the House but have not been taken up by the Senate. And I hope the Democrats will do a better job of messaging about the important work they have already done and will continue to do for the average person and those who care about good government.t
How many Americans know about HR1, for example?
12
It doesn't matter who Trump's 2016 voters cast ballots for in 2020. The Democrats are going to rise and fall on the strength of their turnout, particularly among African Americans and suburban women. Period.
7
People who voted for Obama went for Trump because he was competing against a woman. The Obama-Trump will revert to Biden because he is a man. If the Democratic nominee is Liz Warren or any other woman, then all bets are off.
Rural America is a lot like Saudi Arabia when it comes to perceptions about women.
As for the rationale provided by people who switched from Obama to Trump - that is a joke.
10
These are the people who heard Trump say "What do you have to lose?" and took a chance. Now they know what they have to lose. It's okay to change your mind, folks. Just do it.
10
I wonder why Ms. Daniels thinks that his "brilliant" "diversionary tactic" of hiding the White House's real agenda behind crude tweets is good for the country. Ms. Daniels, do you sleep better at night knowing that things are being done in our country's name, with the imprimatur of the U.S. Presidential Seal behind it, in the dark? You can respect the boldness and cunning behind the strategy without applauding it.
4
I question the logic of putting Ms. Daniel's comments in this article. She spoke as if she had facts, which she didn't. Quite the opposite. Then she goes out of her way to disparage a deceased POW and veteran. When fire gets oxygen it only continues to burn.
9
I'm a lifelong Democrat who voted for Trump....to disrupt! And he has!! The NSA has been the shadow government for too long and I did not want a "yes" man in the WH. I will vote for Trump again. The Democratic party has gone off the rails and their current actions to impeach will backfire on them. And the Dems practice to call Trump supporters nasty names only emboldens us....so keep it up! I think the polls are....again...skewed and may not be a good predictor of the 2020 outcome.
18
@J. G. Smith
You don't sound like a lifelong Democrat.
56
@J. G. Smith Enjoy it when he plunders the beauty of colorado with fracking, deforestation, selling of public lands, destruction of eco systems, etc. because he will....
72
@J. G. Smith Enjoy it when Trump dismantles Social Security and Medicare which is his plan for 2020!
Also, Colorado is mostly ruined anyway due to Hickenlooper's fondness for fracking. I used to visit frequently but not interested now with all the mess you have as a result of fracking.
9
The trade wars are working. Apple just announced manufacturing in Austin. The crack down on the illegal immigrant invasion is working. These are pocketbook issues. Everything else is silly distraction.
7
@Craig No, it isn't.
22
@Craig The trade wars are working just like Trump brought that manufacturing plant back to Indiana, right? Right...
6
China has already lost the trade war. Their economy is sluggish and they need OUR pork
1
No one can guarantee anything from our politicians and those who constantly switch their vote from say Obama to Trump seem to looking for some magical bullet that will make everything all right. We are so split politically that getting everything to change suddenly is impossible.
But there is one thing certain when comparing the in power GOP politicians now such as McConnell, Trump or Barr. Democrats will give us more stability and cleaner government and processes that may result in Better Health Care coverage, foreign policies and saner more measured conversations. But if you are looking for perfection, it ain't going to happen.
10
The majority, if not all, Dem candidates have visited many small towns and rural counties in middle America. They are listening and they are paying attention to them. These rural voters need to start asking themselves, "What have Republicans done for me lately?"
19
The "change" that progressive liberals or the "change" Trump voters yearn for are so diametrically opposite that we have to understand that neither is realistic when the country is so divided. To restore civility BOTH have to move closer to the center and be ready to compromise. What we ended up with in 2016 is a highjacked election with Trump voters believing in some super-simplistic and unrealistic promises (think Mexico will pay for it) and adopting an attitude that compromise on their extreme right-wing agenda was a sellout. Let us all see the folly of such positions on both sides.
5
I can't quite figure out how the meme 'Democrats haven't done anything' keeps getting repeated. There are about 14 bills the House already passed -- healthcare, drugs, guns, you name it -- all dying in the Giant Elephant Graveyard run by Mitch McConnell. The only "do-nothing" party out there is the Republican Party.
31
Yes, I'm from Erie and still bemoan that result in 2016. I've called Erie County the poster county for the issue of Obama-to-Trump switch. I've also regarded what happened here as a prime example or a key part of HRC's fatal neglect of a territory contributing to an Electoral College result. When reading the current article, I cringed at that die-hard Trump supporter who sounded like one of those voters Trump wouldn't lose despite that shooting on 5th Avenue. The political party affiliation of our representative flipped, too, about which the Times notes having covered in a previous article, and the successor did win again last year--he being one of the lock-step Republicans now in Congress. The two southern, semi-rural counties in my district helped with that one, seeming to reinforce the image of rural white ignorance and even some bigotry. Do I sound elitist from this big city of Erie? OK, and proud of it. So, I say to the majority of citizens--register and go vote OUT Trump and his Republican ilk.
8
Democrats - or anyone who wants to beat Trump - needs to read this, print it and put it on your wall. Only Biden can win the electoral college - Dems (and the NYT) needs to stop with the folly that Warren or Bernie can win. They can't
"Mr. Bizzarro, 33, was skeptical that Mr. Biden would end up as the nominee. If Democrats nominate one of his two closest current rivals, Senator Elizabeth Warren of Massachusetts or Senator Bernie Sanders of Vermont, Mr. Bizzarro sounded leery of their ability to carry Erie County without a surge of voters from his own generation."
4
'Barack Obama is unelectable.' --Generic Rust Belt Armchair Quarterback.
Oh, and living in one of those states Biden supporters want to use to scare us all about other candidates....Bernie beat Hillary here in the dairy state in 2016 (a state she forgot about where it was come the general election). Oh and that Scott Walker guy had to drag his knuckles to a new job followinf 2018.
Come on...it's about voter enthusiasm and the suburbs. Not the folks who yearn for nostalgia or want to just blow everything up.
I wouldn’t let Mark Graham near any real estate deal of mine. He shows no judgment whatsoever.
6
There was no guessing in the 2016 presidential election. Trump laid his cards down for all to see. Forget the sexual stuff - very clearly he was a racist birther; hypocritical racist - calling Mexican rapists/murderers while employing them in his hotels; grifter and con man - bilking students at Trump University; six bankruptcies.....do I need to go on. There was no guessing or gamble on Trump. Period. Just sheer stupidity.
21
For many of these voters, they apparently have Trump as their main source of news. And if not only him then FOX.
They complain about the Dems concentrating on impeachment and getting nothing done and so are obviously unaware that the House has passed many important bills on gun safety, the Mexico-Canadian trade deal, disaster aid, lower prescriptions, and infrastructure among others.
And where are those bills now? On speaker McConnell's desk. He's not even bringing them up for a vote in order to make it look like the Dems are doing nothing.
All that information that has been readily available to anyone that watches networks other than FOX.
Or the PBS News Hour
Or reads the NY Times.
Or Washington Post.
Or, heck....any other reliable news sources.
But why would they? The president has told them that they can't be trusted, are liars, should be thrown in jail, and offer nothing but "fake news" - a term that came into existence with the election of Donald Trump.
Only he is telling you the truth.
11
This quote, from a Trump supporter, really gave me a good laugh, and made me cry at the same time: She called Senator John McCain, the 2008 nominee, “a traitor to this country,” adding, “I’ve done my own research.”
10
"...Meanwhile over in the corner, we’re working on this thing nobody knows about.” So true: "this thing" which we are now finding out about: collusion with Putin, filling own pockets with ill-gotten gains, and utter moral turpitude. Jeez. What a voter.
10
"She [Ms. Daniels] called Senator John McCain, the 2008 nominee, “a traitor to this country,” adding, “I’ve done my own research.”"
Ms. Daniels, you owe Senator McCain's family, as well as every other veteran (and POW), an apology.
15
The only thing they could possibly say that I would want to hear is "I made a terrible mistake voting for a corrupt traitor like Trump!" But that ain't gonna happen now is it?
9
All of these people need to have their heads examined.
10
The Catholics are correct, man was born in original sin. And Trump embodies all of them. Many people can relate to that, that such a sinful, hateful, vile person can become President. Maybe that means they're not so bad. Well, he is and they are.
4
I honestly believe Hillary Clinton is why Trump won. She took the Blue Wall for granted. Now, it's time to put this horrid chapter in American history behind us. Enough with Trump's drama, shenanigans, lies, and lack of integrity or character. We should expect more from our President than an economy whose massive wealth continues to reward the top one-percent.
9
Biden won't make it and Warren can't make it. That leaves the Dems with Hillary - the soon-to-be two-time loser. Unless Romney throws in as a Democrat, the pain will continue for another four years. Bet on it. Stone-cold lock.
4
Republicans defend and reward their own when they get caught lying and cheating. Democrats punish theirs. How do we deal with the consequences of that fact?
4
What I hear again and again is that people are disgusted by the President's language and actions. It is clear to me that discouraging Democratic voters, who are more easily turned off on politics when it becomes disgusting, is the simple goal of Republicans. The conservatives will show up for the Republicans no matter what.
Democratic voters have to vote even if the discourse is nauseating. Remember the Republicans are simply playing you.
3
All I know is this country can't take another 4 years of trump. The chaos has to stop. The hatred has to stop. The raping of our lands, water and air has to stop. Our government is not functioning as it should, and it started falling apart from the top down.
12
This is a funny column. In 2008 and 2012 many of these voters were "enlightened progressives" who voted for the first black president, often twice. Since 2016 they have been labeled uninformed, racist deplorables. Many of us had hoped BHO would be the transformative president he could have been, but with few if any accomplishments or political experience before being elected, and a republican stone wall opposed to even considering working with him, much of the country didn't get much and took a chance on trump and his populist rhetoric. The democrats need only be reasonable to win next year. Open borders and free everything combined with health care for illegals and the rest of us paying for it as well as being forced on to Medicare may not be a winning strategy.
9
It's funny to read an article about Erie, PA. When I left to go to college at Mercyhurst in the late 70's, I remember one of my high school teachers called it "Dreary Erie, the mistake by the lake". It was already in decline when I got there. Been back several times, in the 90's and more recently. Looks like everything is closed in the downtown area. Don't know what they are talking about in this article with the start-ups. Just an overgrown , religious (Catholic Church on every corner) small town that I doubt will ever see better days, unless there are some major structural changes. The person who can do do this, deserves to be POTUS.
1
"Asked about Mr. Trump’s thousands of documented falsehoods in office, Ms. Daniels pushed back. “Based on whose sources?” she demanded. “Just because the news tells me that his claims are false is a little hypocritical because we had to listen about Russia, Russia, Russia for two years, and they were wrong. Who are they to say what’s coming out of his mouth is wrong?”."
How can one have a rational, reasonable debate with this?
19
I've read enough of these stories now to know what trump supporters think, which, as I've learned from too many of these stories, isn't much. Please stop writing about these people. I get it. They're bitter and selfish. They have nothing important to say.
12
The most significant thing in this article is the paper's appended link in the middle, which says, "Trump’s unfounded allegations about Biden and his son have been the biggest campaign challenge to the former vice president yet." This is an unsupported, biased claim, not a piece of news, indicating the Anybody-But-Biden agenda we have been seeing here for the past several months, an agenda that is becoming more and more simply pushing Warren.
2
Literally everyone in this article who intends to support this regime is basing their decision on demonstrable, proven lies, and every attempt at getting through to them results in childish "lalala, I can't hear you" rhetoric.
At what point do we give up on these people, and focus on getting out the vote among the population who can read without moving their lips?
7
Do Christians like the one quoted in this article ever stop to think why people are leaving their religion on droves?
When I think of Christianity in this country, I think of lavish megachurches and millionaire preachers. I see a religion that just propagates bigotry and hatred, a religion that is nothing but an extension on the Republican Party and a religion that has turned its back on Jesus and all he stands for.
Christians should stop blaming the people who leave the church and instead focus on how awful their religion has become and change it.
6
@Sterling
And by the same token, shouldn't you stop blaming "Christians" for every election that doesn't go your way? Or maybe live by your values and not stereotype people with such broad bushes?
1
Actually, I was responding to the comment that people leaving religion was a bad thing for the country. Second, as a gay man, who has had to listen to lies that that Christians tell about people like me and how awful we are, I’ll stereotype all I want because there is so much truth there.
People leave Christianity not because they don’t like God, they leave Christianity because they don’t like what Christians have become.
2
Dems lost 2016 because after Obama, it was an insult to black voters in the democratic coalition to get demoted from the national ticket. Had Clinton recognized their legitimate role in the electoral/representative process, she'd have split the ticket somehow, with former MA governor Deval Patrick, for example. Such a pick would also have positioned her to show more humility regarding mass incarceration and her embrace of super predators rhetoric and to put the past firmly in the past. Here's hoping Warren makes the right choice and selects Stacey Abrams to make good on what Clinton failed to understand!!
1
I can't comprehend how someone could have voted for Obama and then "taken a chance" on Trump. These two are as different as night and day -- one is an erudite statesman and the other a shady businessman with a low IQ and zero ethics. One mustn't go by their gut in a presidential election. Do the homework; this is too important to leave to chance.
8
"She said the president had fulfilled his promises to put “America First” by avoiding foreign wars and ending decades of what she called open borders."....You have to roll your eyes at voters who have no idea what is going on. When Obama left office (no foreign wars) he had deported more illegal immigrants than any other President. Illegal immigration into the U.S. was at a 40 year low, and there were no caravans of immigrants from Guatemala, Honduras, and El Salvador crossing Mexico. The current mess at the border was created by the Trump Administration when they repeatedly insulted Mexico and Mexico decided to stop cooperating.
5
This is a simple matter: Just ask anyone who voted for Donald J. Trump how they are better off. When the crickets stop chirping, ask them how the rest of the country is better off.
3
@HANK
The day after Trump's 2016 victory, the Dow went down a thousand points - to 14,000 or so. Mr Nobel Prize Economist Paul Krugman said on these very pages: "Who knows how low it will go?" Well, certainly not him. Today, the Dow is at 26,000+. Who's better off? You are. You just don't know it or won't admit it. But plenty of voters are well aware of it.
1
@Teller
The stock market is not the be and end all of the economy. It’s great for maybe 10% of the population. Pension plan underfunding is skyrocketing, so I hope the one I depend on stays solvent for the rest of my life. The unemployment rate measures the employees needed for jobs available. Not a measure of how many need jobs. The Great American Tax cut; Net savings for me..$69.00, not even enough to cover one half of one month’s utility bill. The market’s durability is in spite of trump, not because of him.
We get lots of articles about what Trump voters are thinking, and how we should try to understand them. What they really need to see is what I think of them, and my complete lack of interest how they feel, their fortunes, or their misfortunes. I think they are despicable. They elected a crook to represent them without regard to the rest of the nation or their duties as a citizen, and harmed the rest of us and the nation as a result.
Further, they aren’t believable, and have chosen the path of willful ignorance. Everyone knew who Trump was before the election, and the slightest research (Fox doesn’t count) shows how toxic his party is for the nation. The efforts the GOP went to to pack the courts should have been disqualifying alone, never mind their continual wars, complete economic incompetence, and open graft.
10
@James
Apparently you find the majority of voters in your state to be 'despicable'. Probably you find me to be despicable also, too, since I voted third party in 2016. A perfectly safe vote in a reliably red state which went for Trump, but nevertheless also had the highest per capita turnout for Bernie in the caucuses.
@James It's exactly because of people like you that Trump won
@Vaz Dubey @Vaz Dubey No, it’s because people who clearly don’t care about the country or theri neighbors chose to vote for a criminal and con man.
2
Let's face it, we live in an Idiocracy.
Most of the readers of the NYT can't imagine the fecklessness, lack of rational thinking, selfishness, lack of civic-mindedness, desperation, projected anger, shallowness, and corrupted thinking that nearly 50% of Americans are dominated by.
The "rationale" they give for voting for Trump is so mindless, venal, and gullible that you can see why a sage once said, "You'll never go broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people."
It's hard to convince the Trump cult of anything, but maybe a few of them will have an awakening and realize that FDR-style policies are far better for them, the country and the world than the policies of a greedy, rich fraudster.
9
Ms. Daniels embodies a stereotype of Trump supporter: gleeful about chaos, unkind, happy to trash democratic norms and protocols, and suspicious of the media, yet unwilling to challenge her own sources.
I guess stereotypes aren't always wrong. I hope she is deeply disappointed in the results of the next election.
10
Unfortunately Obama and the corporatist neo-liberals behave like republican lite...might as well vote for the real thing.
Dear Dems, please behave like FDR democrats and victory is yours.
2
Why does the media run these tired stories? Why do you take at face value, that these people who voted for Trump, really voted for Obama?
I think it's more likely that anyone who is still wiling to support Trump, did NOT ever vote for Barack Obama. They say it because their bigoted and ashamed (but not enough to actually do something).
3
My brother in-law is a fourth generation Floridian -- a very rare thing. They are known as Florida crackers and they are usually blue-dog Democrats.
In his sixties, he had never voted for a Republican for president. He voted for Obama twice. He voted for Trump in 2016.
He is a highly educated and successful professional. He couldn't abide Hillary.
This time around, he is voting for Trump again.
When he looks at the Democratic candidates on the debate stage, he says, "What has happened to my Party?"
8
Trying to care about people who care so little for themselves.
I can't. Sorry.
6
Thé Democratic candidates have outrageous positions on many issues—reparations, open borders, free college, free health care, et al, that Trump will waltz to reelection. It is amazing to me that so many “experts“ still have no idea why Hillary lost.
5
I didn't read the article and I will not.
I'm tired of hearing why they voted for the guy who spent the better part of a decade perpetuating a racist lie in hopes of undermining Obama's legitimacy.
They are in moral debt to the rest of us and it will stay that way until they're better Americans.
6
Doesn’t the president have more pressing matters to attend to that playing the press “like a fiddle”?
3
Some years ago, a Texas voter was quoted as saying to the then Texas Governor, something like It was the other guy's turn, that guy being George W. Bush. In both cases it was voting for a white guy against a white woman. Is that significant? I think so.
2
Yes, they voted for Obama and then for Trump. Not a surprise -- Hillary Clinton has that kind of polarizing effect and the democrats chose to ignore it. They will probably do it again...
The democrats have no idea what people outside the blue states think and perceive. And as one of the women interviewed stated -- this president knows how to get people and the press to harp about inconsequential matters.
We are waiting for the messiah.......
4
I am sorry, but I will never understand the mindset of a person who went from voting for Obama to voting for Trump. It makes zero sense to me. Yes, maybe they had the economy in mind and thought that Trump was the answer, but how could they turn a blind eye to all his horrible societal transgressions? It's a mystery.
426
@Ana It blows my mind that there is even a single American who is on the fence about Trump. After what the world has witnessed since he was installed, how can anyone rationalize his continued occupation of the White House?
66
@Ana I think it's that they really hated Hilary.
23
@Ana-- Oh, I just wrote virtually the same comment! Great minds think alike.
1
"I gave the other guy a chance," is an honest comment from a voter. But it is a discouraging one suggesting that good information and careful judgment don't play a role in how too many Americans vote.
6
I think Erie in Western PA and moving east toward the New York border looks very nice for a rust belt area. Infrastructure and upgrading grids are much easier problems to fix because Erie is considerably smaller than neighboring cities, such as, Buffalo, Cleveland and Pittsburgh. After all, progress comes in baby steps.
We need to speak about affordable healthcare, education--similar agenda of the Obama Administration, whether that education is a tech certification, a two year degree, or bachelor's. We live in a gorgeous area and we're very lucky.
1
We are not going to go back in time, and we would be well advised to not uphold the status quo, either - the status quo that continues to send jobs offshore and then tells us we'll be so happy because TVs/phones/clothes will be cheaper. We are in the middle of a real change, and change is painful. What we need is a leader who TRULY has the best interests of Americans and our everyday issues at heart.
Case in point - currently the NBA is falling all over themselves to spin away a comment that was sympathetic to the Hong Kong protesters - you know, the young people protesting for freedom from an autocratic government. The greed of our corporate class is revolting. They would ship or automate away any one of our jobs tomorrow, if they could.
5
It says a lot about how bad things are and how compromised our very own system of governance is that it is essentially a few counties that ultimately decide the fate of this nation of over 300 million people. Same thing with the Senate, every state gets two Senators regardless of population. The result is that the current GOP senate majority represents tens of millions fewer Americans than their Democrat counterparts.
4
Eerie was flipped due to a very unpopular candidate being foisted upon the electorate. I wholeheartedly agree with Mr Graham. I would vote for a trained chimp versus our current president due to the fact that the chimp would be more reasonable, and capable of making better decisions. At this point in time Warren is starting to convince me of her qualifications to be president, while Biden and Sanders leave me with new doubts everyday.
4
I am appreciative of and grateful for people who are reconsidering their 2016 vote for DJT, and who are contemplating not voting for him in 2020.
4
These folks sound contemplative and rational; hopefully this will have a bell-weather effect a year from now. I only partially blamed the rust belt voters for 2016 support of Donny from Queens. The rest of the blame lay on the media whose only job is to inform the voter how each candidate is on the issues. If instead they focus on trivial pursuits like e-mails and act as if every contest is in the red zone with time running out on the clock, then we were better off when the bosses picked candidates in smoke-filled rooms.
1
This is the mythical narrative of the moderate voter that HRC wooed. In the voting booth they will almost all go for the GOP candidate. The way ahead for the Democrats is to nominate a dynamic candidate who will motivate progressives, young people and minorites to vote and can hold onto a large majority of female voters.
4
I would just invite Trump supporters to ask themselves.... Do you believe our nation will be able to unite, or will we divide even more under four more years of Trump? Can we honestly survive four more years of this?
And with his non-existent foreign policies, don't look for any stability there either.
4
@Diane L.
By "unite", you mean join the Dems in support of free college, Medicare-for-All and open borders. It's fine if you believe those will "improve" the country. Unfortunately, half the country doesn't believe they will, so the answer is No. Soften the Dem platform and maybe we can find common ground - a worthy goal.
It's time to stop caring what rural voters think. There are more of us than there are of them. These people insist on voting against their self interests, and against the interests of the rest of the citizens of the United States. They cannot be saved, nor can they be convinced to put the interest of the polity at large ahead of their own selfishness. We need to focus on out voting them at the polls. Anything else is window dressing.
4
I remember an interview with a WV woman in 2016. She had just returned from her second drug rehab stint. She had been unable to hold down jobs for more than a few months most of her life. Was living on SS Disability and sharing her trailer home with a male friend because he couldn't work ether.
She was voting for Trump because "He reminds me of myself'". I couldn't see the comparison, but she said she sure that " MGAG " meant good times were ahead for her.
2
How much longer will the Electoral College cause us to suffer through these man-on-the-street pieces? Enough from the “undecided” and the “independent” voters, as if their opinion should matter any more than the rest of ours.
4
Mr. Miller, a subject of the article thinks it was bad form for the US President to get damaging and false information on a political rival. Mr. Miller also says he's uncertain if that warrants impeachment. Wonder what Mr. Miller thinks would be sufficient? Murder on 5th Avenue in NYC, perhaps? Likely not.
3
Ms. Daniels may sound unhinged but she's pretty representative of Trump voters. There are 63 million of these folks out there. Think about that.
7
Erie is interesting, especially since the PA Supreme Court's decision on gerrymandering.
As someone born and raised in Erie, these people are precisely the people who will determine the coming election. As painful as it is, the winning 2020 strategy is the one that accommodates them.
3
My experience is that most of Trump's support relies on either rural areas with lower than average educations, or old white folks that are paranoid about change and how it would affect their savings.
3
As someone who lives in Erie, PA and actively votes, I am beyond disturbed but not surprised at some of the sentiments expressed in this article. Erie county is very much split right now, however, the people that I personally know voted for Trump are still banging that drum-- also not surprising to me.
Just a quick side note here that it's interesting to me that NYT would chose this photo to represent it's story on Erie, PA... there are so many gorgeous areas of the city, even a few blocks down from this bridge. It was disheartening to me.
1
Mr. Trump cannot be allowed another term.
11
oh look, another one of these stupid pieces about trump voters
why don't you interview some black people and immigrants and see what they thought of trump in 2016 and now?
it's pathetic you keep publishing this same nonsense, especially about the mythical obama-trump voter who just can't possibly be racist, it's always economic anxiety.
15
Back in the fall of 1991 I attended a video class in LA and went out and interviewed people about who would win the 1992 election. I'm a liberal, but felt sure at that point that Bush would be re-elected. As I read this, it is good to note that some Trump voters have changed their minds. But as Ryan Bizzarro noted, if the economy stays strong, Trump will be hard to beat, but so many things can change. Right now we don't know how impeachment will go and what the trade war will do. It is clear North Korea doesn't want Trump to win a Nobel Peace Prize, as they say all talks are over. I find it hard to understand the woman who doesn't see Trump as a liar, just the media has liars. But I've read about Trump's bankruptcies, where he brags about screwing investors in his casinos, where he piled on debt, bought a new helicopter and walked away with "a lot of money." A business failure in his eyes is a success if he robs people blind. Some of the people may wake up by November 2020. We will see.
7
“Ms. Daniels ... called Senator John McCain, the 2008 nominee, ‘a traitor to this country,’ adding, ‘I’ve done my own research.’”
Please, oh please, enlighten us with your research. You’ve chugged from the Trump/FoxNews//Breitbart well so many time you call a POW a traitor.
Trump agreed to trade dirt on a political rival and US citizen in exchange for weapons. But I bet your research sources tell a different story.
30
@Stan Ms. Daniels should be ashamed of herself.
9
There are estimated to be over 200,000 eligible voters in Erie County Pennsylvania. How many voted in the 2018 elections? For the answer, look at the Erie County Board of Elections website.
https://www.eriecountypa.gov/county-services/elections-voting/historical-election-results.aspx
Hint: We need more people to get involved.
3
Oh just go ahead and vote for trump again. What could possibly go wrong? Lol.
6
Citizens of Erie PA,
Kindly review Andrew Yang's campaign when you get a chance. I sincerely believe that you'll benefit from investing 60 minutes of your time into understanding the policies and the person.
Signed,
Independent
2
I find it impossible to believe Ms. Daniels ever voted for Obama. She is a totally lost cause, drowning in a brew of conspiracy theories and easily disprovable propaganda.
21
Thanks NYT. I really needed some gauzy profiles of Trump voters. Not!
I think I have read this exact same thing over 20 times now.
13
The numbers tell the tale: support for Trump is mostly from white voters with no college degree. I don’t wish to disparage such individuals–having no degree doesn’t make you stupid. It does, though, tend to make you more economically vulnerable, because higher paying jobs generally require a degree.
It isn’t that a college degree is fundamental, in itself, to these jobs. Often they go to people with a degree that has no relation to the job requirements. What college does do for people is force them to practice abstract thinking. In an extremely complex world which is becoming even more complex, this is a valuable trait for which employers are willing to pay more.
Some so-called “low information” voters, feeling economically disadvantaged and threatened, have in desperation turn to a charlatan like Trump as their pretend savior. I say pretend because he won’t, indeed can’t, truly help them because he has only one lodestar: making himself more prominent.
All politicians are egotists. You have to be to get into politics. Trump, however, is a narcissist, so self-involved that he is unable to weigh any issue in any regard other than how it benefits himself. He is fundamentally unable to consistently put the good of others ahead of his own, as most politicians, despite their large egos, are able and willing to do.
His desire to “shake things up” is no virtue. It is simply a way to set himself apart and magnify his status. A vote for him is a wasted vote.
14
Regardless of your opinions about specific policy issues — full disclosure: I think that pretty much all of Trump’s policy decisions have been horrible — I will never understand how Trump supporters can be okay with the frequency and abandon with which Trump tells lies.
Trump is a serial liar. The brazenness and sheer numbers of lies he tells on a daily basis far exceed anything I’ve seen in my lifetime. I submit that he would be summarily fired for lying if he were an employee at pretty much any reputable company in the real world.
Do Trump supporters somehow believe that Trump is not a profligate liar? How is Trump’s lying not disqualifying behavior for elevation to the highest office in the land?
12
We always want to know what’s going to happen in advance; never willing to just wait and see what happens. All this amounts to, is the same as forcing your hand into the cereal box to get the prize inside instead of waiting for it to fall out into the bowl. That’s what polls showed us last time. Quite useless as it turns out, because the game board is printed on the inside of the box and for that you hotta wait.
I wonder what sort of "research" would lead you to believe John McCain was a traitor, while Trump is a good guy. Was this a course at Trump University?
22
I voted Republican in the Bush years. I didn't vote for Obama, but I did like and respect him. In 2016 I didn't vote for HC because I just did not like the woman. I could not vote for trump because I truly believed the man was an abomination, even before he stepped into office. Never thought he would win. So I voted for neither, and wrote in some obtuse name. I think there were a lot of us out there in 2016 that didn't like the choices. For those people now, I'm convinced it will be anybody BUT trump. It will be a cold day in h--- before I vote Republican again, mainly because of their approval by silence of the current occupier of the oval office. I cant believe there wasn't a way to stop him from running initially. But there certainly is a way to prevent him from running again.
16
Dear America,
Trump is not on your side! For example, his department of Justice is in court attempting to REMOVE the pre-existing condition mandate from the ACÁ. IF you or someone you love has a pre-existing condition, Trump doesn’t care!
Make America Kind Again! Vote Blue!
10
If these voters were still undecided, prior to the impeachment inquiry, between Trump and a Dem candidate for 2020, then all efforts should focus on increasing turnout. The majority of the 2016 American electorate is too misinformed and/or uninformed.
11
It is unfathomable to me that for any other high-level job in the US, candidates for that job usuallly need to demonstrate some previous work experience that would make one at least minimally qualified for the position. How is it that for the most important job in this country - President - one does not even need to have relevant experience? We would not be in the current mess if the office required some previous political experience and demonstrated skills to be considered for the job. Why can't there be specific job requirements (besides age and birth place/US citizenship) for POTUS in order to run for office?
7
Hillary came off as too far left, too involved around the special interests engendered in some sectors of identity politics. I voted for her because the alternative, who I knew well from living near NYC, was no alternative. The Dems now have a chance to listen and to take back the people,who couldnt get past Hillary's associations with identity politics and the tarnished legacy of the first Clinton presidency--another objection of mine to her candidacy. We needed then as we need now, a fresh start with people most concerned about our future and the future of the republic on the global stage. Globalism won't stop because America says so.
Also, the folks of Erie will need to learn what some young people know: one has to move to get a good job. We aren't a semi agrarian country where one can have job that pays enough and doing a bit of family farming to make ends meet. The young have to move in order to establish their careers. others have to move to survive. That was the plight of the unlanded prior to WW2 and the making of the suburbs.The promise of the suburbs--that the kids could stay because jobs would always be plentiful --never accounted for the changes in America's fortunes once The World got past Reconstruction. Bountiful doesn't last forever and we have to adapt to survive both politically and in our personal economies. Time for the Dems to address this and move past the Baby Boomer worldview.
7
The Dems have to do this. The Dems have to do that. The Dems did all that and more in 2016. It's obviously not a winning strategy. What, of anything you or anyone else has mentioned, have the Republicans done? And yet, Donald Trump was elected. Policy seems to mean absolutely nothing, and what the Dems have to do is find a candidate who appeals to voters on an emotional level. Bill Clinton's and Barack Obama's policies weren't great, but they were elected. Even likability isn't a requirement. Donald Trump was elected. Emotion is the way to go in 2020.
1
Especially struck by the voter who wishes Democrats would "work with the president on issues like health care and immigration." On health care, Trump has offered exactly nothing of substance to the American people -- just a mouthful of meaningless sell copy. And immigration? His policies amount to a long string of legal and human rights violations. Not a lot the work with there. And does she not know about the 28 bills the House has passed that Mitch McConnell has refused to let the Senate take up? It's tough to work with people who denigrate the processes of government and demand absolute power.
32
What happens when the millions of people whose blue collar jobs have already been eliminated and whose prospects are very limited are joined by white collar workers whose jobs may be eliminated because of advances in technology? Erie and small town America are the canaries in the coal mine. Which party will officially recognize the threat and provide real solutions? Potential massive,permanent unemployment and the unrest which it will bring must be addressed now.
4
Turnout in 2020, not the Obama Trump voters' leanings, is a more accurate way to determine where Pennsylvania will land in the next presidential election. Given the latest polls and trends it appears that tweaking turnout just a bit will put Pennsylvania's electoral votes in the blue column. Look at the 2018 Congressional races. Democrats were much more excited than they were in 2016. It makes me wonder why we fixate on the white voters in Erie as opposed to diverse urban voters statewide who figured Clinton would win and weren't excited enough to show up at the polls. That said, Obama Trump voters who support the Democratic candidate will only help deliver Pennsylvania for the Democrats. I would like to see more coverage of diverse urban voters, especially African American men, and of shifts among white suburban women since 2016.
2
This highlights the power of propaganda and how it can lead to permanent brainwashing. A few may still de able to snap out of it, but I doubt it. They may question Trump’s style, but the voting booth provides cover. Spot on with millennials staying home. We also still get the classic “conservative, family guy”... enough already. Who decided that only conservatives are family oriented?
6
Ms Daniels needs to change the channel because if she did she would learn that there are over 200 bills passed by the house and dying in the graveyard of Mitch McConnells office. Democrats in the house have already voted to address the issues she cares about- her frustration is with republicans.
17
The subtext of this article is spot on! - to be successful, the Dem. candidate for Pres. in 2020 has GOT to be just plain attractive to folks who would probably call themselves economic or even social conservatives.
Obviously, Bernie is NOT that individual. I wish Ms. Warren or PB looked like possibles - "probably equal to the challenge" is almost too high a bar - but to me they do not.
To me, however, Joe looks way too much like Hillary - trying to tap into whatever magic propelled Barack into the top job ... but having more baggage (both of them) than makes it possible to get "airborn!"
But this article is a neat "corrective" to the recent one about a rural county in Arkansas. (That author argued that Ms. Warren's promises of TRUE populism would probably seal the deal on those people sticking with Trump, so intoxicating has been the GOP anti-tax message since Reagan. (It's just the message! I get that!)
Those voters (tens of millions of them) are locked up just like most of the Rep. Party in elected positions. One may act out of profound ignorance and the other cynical self-aggrandizement, but Hillary got PART of the equation right - Arkansas (and 10-20 other low electoral vote states) are really and truly off the table.
But this means people like Warren - who see the US in black-and-white terms - are probably going to be unable to thread the needle here. Gotta hope Klobuchar or Bullock catches fire at some point. Otherwise, we're looking at 4 more (hellish) years!
3
@pfusco
I'm supporting Amy at this point and hope Bullock catches up. Have no idea why 'Mayor Pete' seems
to be so much more popular than either of these
accomplished candidates who have actually put
in their time in the trenches . . .
3
1st, thanks to the Times for this article. I urge you to do more of the formerly blue districts that switched to Trump in 2016. The voters' opinions presented in this piece and the districts that made the switch back to blue in 2018 were also of interest.
Given the Electoral College, gerrymandering, winner-take-all rules in some States, and foreign sourced propaganda, it is a challenge for our society to achieve the promise of democracy in a representative government.
The evolving multi-cultural, multi-ethnic and rapid change in global labor, capital markets, and technology are the source of a discontinuity induced stress on humanity.
Just reading that Erie is the site of a closed G.E.'s locomotive works jarred me and reminded me of how challenging it is for our system to adapt to the market, and the inevitable change in the global source of energy.
Trump has not been successful in worker wages. The Tax Cut and Jobs Act did not work to improve the lives of working people and his tariff policies were hard on the agricultural industry, and even though I don't fully understand it yet, truckers seem to be having a rough time.
Emigration is another issue that the President has botched. Emigration is the way that humans have always adjusted to economic and environmental change and from what I read in emigration studies, emigration has reduced the global rate of poverty. The U.S. has been through immigration spikes before, so we should be able to manage it.
2
Hey somebody remind Mr. Miller the 'family guy' to do a little
homework on Mr. Trump. If he knew this already and realizes
the President attempted to have a foreign country investigate a political rival but doesn't seem to think it's serious enough for impeachment, well to me that says it's gotta be something else and I'm no one to make accusations but I can make an educated guess. Anyone care to take a guess?
3
Ms Daniels says congressional Democrats should be working with the president on issues like health care and immigration. “All they’re doing is, Get Trump, Get Trump, Get Trump.” But that is not true.
As of the August recess, according to www.govtrack.us, this year 219 bills have passed the House and are now in the Senate; 16 bills have passed the House and Senate and are awaiting the President's signature; 35 bills have been passed by the House and Senate and have been signed by the President; 1 House bill has been vetoed; and 4 Senate bills have been vetoed. Of the bills the President has signed, 26 were introduced by Democrats and 9 by Republicans. Three of these bills make it easier for Veterans to get mortgages, get more bulletproof vests into police departments, and make the 9/11 victims compensation fund permanent. All three bills were introduced in the House by Democrats.
These numbers indicate that things are being held up in the Republican-controlled Senate, not the House.
13
@Dean
Exactly!
I almost think that at the top of the news every night all news channels should be urged to report on the progress of all legislation: votes, vetoes, passage, failure. Everything.
Congress typically has dismal approval ratings, in large part thanks to obstruction that can most definitely be lain at the doorstep of McConnell and the GOP.
1
As a Democrat I could possibly compel myself to understand and forgive falling for the Trump con once. After all, look how many doctors, lawyers, etc. have fallen for the Madoffs of America. Moreover, the cult-like nature of the Trump phenomenon is unavoidable.
Harder to forgive the importance of racial resentment for most Trump voters, as shown by the credible studies. I suppose that, too, is part of the con. Let's all do much better.
Most of us to some degree fell for the con, even the free press. Even if our failure was merely a traditional reluctance to resist as strongly as we should have during the campaign. Many of us failed to imagine how bad it could be.
And here we are, with how many legitimate impeachable offenses--illegal and unconstitutional--on the table in front of us?
Mr. Graham sounds smart and reasonable. More power to him. Ms. Daniels sounds like somebody who has lost touch with reality. I feel sorry for her.
The connection between Obama and Trump demands inspection. Obama who was, to be fair, also a celebrity candidate set the stage for Trump. (Except for his inexperience Obama was, however, an excellent president who served on behalf of all Americans. The less said about Trump the better in that regard.)
No surprise that the cynical 20% of 2016 voters who disapproved of both candidates went for Trump. If everybody's lousy, why not vote for Trump? There's no excuse for that tack now. Just as there is no excuse for falling for the Trump con again.
7
I shudder when I read that someone has “done their own research”, as that too often translates into their having gone only to sources that confirm their biases and thinking they know or understand more than they actually do. The person in this article who is a municipal secretary is a case in point. She could not have made the statements she did if she had done serious research (or was even minimally well informed) and it’s clear at this point that nothing will change her mind, which seems typical of supporters of this president.
5
@The Babylonians
"Having gone only to sources that confirm their biases and thinking they know or understand more than they actually do" pretty accurately describes the vast majority of us. It's far more than a full-time job to keep up with what is happening on even a few issues, who has time to do that and the patience to sift through misinformation, alternative viewpoints, and to follow
the tangled threads of connection ? Case in point, many commenters here probably feel that they are
'up to speed' on the situation in Ukraine. After all, they read the New York Times ! But that situation is far more complex and multifaceted than most people realize. We have so many sound-bites in todays world,
but the nuance has gotten lost in the noise.
@irene
I agree, and that’s why I roll my eyes at the “done my research” claim. The best many of us who aren’t subject specialists (people who do actually do their research) can do is to read or watch with a critical eye. And if all our sources leave us feeling affirmed, it’s a good bet we aren’t doing that.
it seems to be increasingly difficult to understand the people who have voted for Trump this is a businessman who has claimed bankruptcy 6 times the last finalization was in 2015, what seems to be the intriguing factor is prior to Trump all world economies were on the increase and stabilizing so that a Recession that was to hit and still will would allow people to adjust their financials without the number of hardships and bankruptcies from the farmers, many retailers that you now see due to tariffs imposed by a man who can and has done one of the impossibles bankrupt casinos, it is usually the client of a casino who goes bankrupt due to the addiction of people of which these casinos prey upon Donald Trump was no different,a predator, so why is it that a country as rich in resources, entertainment, tourism is not thriving only one thing comes to mind a President who is inept in economic studies, who himself has to borrow monies from outside countries without allowing the people to understand and see why he cant or won't help them, is he possibly having a hard time meeting his basic monthly payments after all is he really as wealthy as he claims, this is something people who are looking for their own security can never know until it is too late, is there something from the Democratic contenders that is better, some, but again nothing is ever free when done so it means other services need to be stripped, but there is hope that someone better is out there for you, not Trump.
2
In the article, Ms. Lyne Daniels said that we have "open borders".
I wonder if she had been to any of our borders?
Our borders are some of the tightest and strictest in the world. They are not that easy to cross or that "open" as Trump wanted to portray.
To say our borders are "open" shows ignorance and is an insult to the many of our hardworking border patrols.
10
It is a sad day for America that the House of Representatives under Democrat leadership has opened an impeachment inquiry. Yet, the path to this event has been strewn with warnings that the president who said only he could solve all of our problems was incapable of this and incompetent. He was also out for personal financial gain and power. The Ukraine imbroglio is but the latest in his long history of financial shenanigans and failures. This time, however, it involves our government’s international reputation as an honest broker in dispute resolution as well as the most powerful nation capable of bringing this to negotiations.
Career Foreign Service officer and ambassador Volker has dirtied his vest in trying to pursue his ambition while also keeping himself aloof from the machinations of Trump and Giuliani. He is learning that Trump will use and discard anyone he can to advance his personal agenda. Volker should have taken a lesson from ousted career ambassador Yovanovitch who was drop-kicked out of her job in Kiev for not complying with Rudy Giuliani, a private citizen and friend of Trump. She was playing straight with the Ukrainian leadership and this irked Trump. He wanted a mouse that he could manipulate.
Voting to reelect him in 2020 will bring more perfidy, corruption, and threats to our national security. We won’t be the winners, though millions of us believe in Trump’s MAGA siren song.
1
The economy is a big 'alright' despite Trump, not because of Trump. Democrat and Republican presidencies have historically been associated with the same growth. Lets not pretend a "President" has transcendent powers...
Trump's foreign economic policy tries to squeeze capital out of chaos as fractions of a percent of growth are shaved off various industrial sectors. Economists are only left to calculate which nations are worse off since there is no decisive kill that would force capitulation. Now he has to run around encouraging pork barrelling to offset the damage.
The fact that Trump has to hector the fed into lowering rates tells you how "Great" this economy is.
3
“I’d vote for the Democratic nominee no matter who it is at this point,”
That means that Democrats can get away with anything.
The harsh reality is that it means they will try to get away with an awful lot. They'll sell us out so awfully they'll make even Trump look good.
4
A case of buyer's remorse, which is pretty much the - sad - state of the entire. GOP these days.
I have not yet met a single person who didn't vote for Trump last time around and now tells me they will in 2020. So no matter what Trump supporters say, there are fewer of them today than there were in 2016 when he lost by 3 million votes!
Chin up, Democrats. It is going to turn out OK.
2
How could it take anyone 3 years to become convinced that Trump is totally unfit for the office? If some Trump voters finally see the light, great, but it's hard not to be contemptuous of the people who voted for Trump the first time around. There are only two excuses: blinding ignorance or a deep contempt for the country.
4
Why can we not recognize it for what it is? These people on the margin are not very bright or have lost their ability to think for themselves. Anyone who voted for the TV reality show personality, how can you defend that vote or the one you may be willing to make again?
3
The following quote is so indicative of Trump's constant, and unrelenting daily assault on the truth. It wears down even those who consider themselves to be informed voters and leads them to question everything from the fake news to debunked conspiracy theories. Trump has successfully mounted a massive propaganda machine in this "post-truth" era. It will continue to grow in intensity over the next year as his desperation to be reelected draws closer.
Whoever the Democrats nominate should be prepared for what is to be an ugly campaign of lies, accusations and continued conspiracies. The question will be what the voters will ultimately decide to be unfounded or factual. The jury is out as this article implies.
"Talking to people coming through the doors daily, there’s information overload and they’re not sure what to believe.”
1
" but in 2016 he took a gamble on Donald Trump.'
that's like a bookie saying he 's taking a gamble on a race ran yesterday. After trump's performance leading up to the election, no one was gambling on who he was or on what he would do. These folks have a right to vote however they like but to pretend they had no idea on what might happen just reinforces the view that for many of them this was a racial vote. Trump spent 5 years demonizing Obama as an illegitimate POTUS, and ran what many consider an aggressive racist, misogynistic campaign topped off by the Hollywood Access tapes. After hearing those tapes, their was no gamble.
4
Just to put a bit of perspective here.
The combined population of Philadelphia, Montgomery County, Delaware County, Bucks County, and Chester County is a million more than the population of Arkansas.
Montgomery County has more people than live in the following states: Wyoming, Vermont, Alaska, North Dakota, and South Dakota.
Erie County is home to a little more than half the number of people who live in Chester County.
Presidential Elections aren't won in New Mexico or Idaho. Or Erie County. They are won in the Philadelphia suburbs.
199
@Kevin Brock Here's even more perspective.. the presidential election is decided by electoral votes, not the popular vote.
35
@Kevin Brock
Actually, elections are won in the electoral college. 270 is needed to win. PA has 20 of those votes.
22
@Kevin Brock That's fair, but this gives us a taste of how the rest of the Rust Belt might be seeing things. I read "Erie," and I think about Michigan, Wisconsin, and Ohio.
19
I live in Northeast PA. I can absolutely relate to this. My husband said it best the other day: "Trump brought out something in people. It's ugly, but it's real. It's why people flock to him. They can relate."
It's like this underbelly that laces America, especially parts like Erie and Scranton and countless others. It's anger and rhetoric and racism and all of that darkness that goes along with it. It's been repressed for some time. When Trumpism came along, it all came out of the shadows. I see it and feel it here everyday.
My Uncle, a lifelong Democrat, voted for Trump in 2016, much to the chagrin of my Dad. They literally get in shouting matches over it at family functions (both are in their 70s). Same thing for my best friend's father, who proudly wears his MAGA hat everywhere. These are just two men of many, longing for a time when things were....well, different.
It's hard to explain, but it's very very real. And it's terrifying.
492
@Melanie
The day I can "relate" to Trump, please take me out back and have me shot.
110
@Melanie
Yes, my father was from the bituminous coal region. Staunch,Catholic, union members. Roosevelt Democrats. "Salt of the Earth" types. An area that probably never voted gop for generations. JFK and Pope Paul pictures hung on the walls. It is astonishing how the political dynamics have changed. But, many unions went for this guy too. I can think of only three reasons: Bigotry,stupidity/ignorance,greed.
56
@Melanie
Respectfully, it's called racism and white fear. It's not calculus. It's really easy to understand why so many whites want to turn back the clock. Fear.
75
As it became increasingly clear that Hillary Clinton was not going to prevail in 2016, I suggested that by withdrawing from the race she could leave a legacy of having placed her country above her personal ambition. She didn’t.
7
@Bob Swift
At what point did it "...[become] increasingly clear that Hillary Clinton was not going to prevail in 2016"? I followed that campaigns of both candidate, and I have no recollection at all of that.
As a matter of fact, I remember the GOP wanting your boy trump to drop out following the release of the Access Hollywood Tape.
8
@Bob Swift
She had the best internal polling, the best strategy money could buy, so she pushed for the only candidate that she could conceivably beat (Trump). After elevating him to the nomination, she took a crap shoot, and lost.
2
@Bob Swift " She didn’t."
I hope you did the same thing when trump railed about the Mexican Judge, or maybe when he insulted the Gold Star family or at the very least when the Access Hollywood tapes were released. I bet you didn't.
4
I am getting very tired of people blaming the media or the Democratic Party for not addressing issues of importance to common people. They do every day. In the House, the Democrats have passed more than 250 bills addressing such issues as health care, gun violence and voting security. This very paper has done great reporting -- like this piece -- on fundamental problems facing our nation.
In my experience, blame-shifting like this is just a strategy to assume an unearned mantle of intellectual superiority and dodge responsibility for educating oneself on the issues. Grow up.
73
@Charles Edwards
Also, where are the republican bills that protect workers? Keeping manufacturing in America isn't even a duty of our government. For the last 40 years, I've just heard republicans screaming that government needs to keep it's hands off the economy unless it's going to cut taxes.
8
@Charles Edwards
I whole-heartedly agree. What drives me crazy is how a so-called paper of record canbrepeat this tired old trope over and over again.
3
@Charles Edwards
“Follow the money.”
Big business wouldn’t donate millions to Mainstream Dems if they weren’t getting something in return. Basic economics.
2
As of today, Trump has betrayed our Kurdish allies in Syria, he's openly asked two countries to interfere in our next election, and he's exhibited behavior in the last week that would lead any reasonable person to question his sanity.
And some of these people don't want to vote for the other person. No wonder we're the laughingstock of the world.
49
Make America Great Again by NOT VOTING FOR TRUMP! Farmers are stuck taking welfare instead of selling their crops at competitive prices. Manufacturing remains stagnant. Republicans will make drastic cuts to Social Security and Medicare benefits to make up for those huge tax breaks for the wealthy they passed. They'll continue to blame Democrats for their failure to work on the infrastructure while conveniently forgetting it was Trump whom walked out, and said, "he wouldn't work with Democrats.." Trump, with help from Republicans, have weaken America's national security considerably. This "other guy" experiment is an epic failure!
41
Thank you!
2
The New York Times may not always get in perfectly right with these kinds of pieces but I credit them for at least trying to humanize the other side.
How many conservative leaning media outlets have done anything similar: i.e. trying to understand what motivates liberals and Democrats to vote the way they do in a humanizing way?
22
All the Rust Belt exit polls in 2016, which the MSM never mentions, proved Bernie would have crushed Trump, because white workers preferred him. Warren, despite her very unfortunate, selfishly ambitious decision to block Bernie in 2016 by throwing in with Goldman’s darling Hillary, should be running as a Bernie-like economic progressive who’d be the opposite of the NAFTA Clintons. That should win the day for her, as it would have for Bernie, before the heart attack.
2
@Fred White Ah yes, the left-wing conspiracy theories. No reason to leave the field clear for the right-wingers I guess.
Hidden exit polls which prove, incontrovertibly prove ! Blah blah blah. Plus we learn that Elizabeth Warren is in charge of the Democratic party and can block anyone from the nomination.
1
I have little or no faith that enough rehabilitated, born-again Trump supporters will come forward to make an appreciable difference in the direction this country is heading, or to reform the character of our leadership.
Least of all in response to the current impeachment questions, in which Trump's misbehavior is, by usual standards, fairly unspectacular and subtle and thereby would appear well-intended or harmless to the ethically challenged and willfully ignorant.
I fear the latest development will have no significant negative effect, and may more likely simply ratchet up loyalty among the Trump faithful. Why not, when they've excused and overlooked his dishonest words and dishonorable behavior for over 4 years now? Ms. Daniels, quoted in this article, is the perfect example of why I have abandoned hope.
9
After reading this article, I realize that the most depressing aspect of all this is that Donald Trump is the president most of the electorate in this country deserve. Their inability or unwillingness to inform themselves (beyond Fox News, that is) and use common sense in casting their votes all but guarantees a bleak future for this country.
44
@DlphcOracl Those are my thoughts also. They do not educate themselves, refuse any type of change and have a total disregard for people who do not agree with them. They all want to make 25 dollars an hour in factory jobs but keep voting republican congressmen and senators at the federal level into office and electing republican state legislatures who all do there best to destroy unions. I miss the good old days of centrist politics.
4
The responses from select voters in this article again points us to your greatest malignancy, America: the continued generational, lackluster, eroding investment in your educational system.
45
@Karolina Hordowick
What incentive is there to portray any Trump voter in a positive light, when they have invested heavily in the opposite of that, like Ted Koppel said?
The consequence of such heavy-handed editorializing is that most smart people don't want to talk to you or take you seriously.
I certainly would not even consider giving the time of day to any such journalist asking to profile me in their articles.
Filmmaker Michael Moore described these Obama-Trump voters as '...throwing a Molotov Cocktail into the voting booth.' They had and still have a right to do so, but let's be clear; Trump voters wanted chaos, and now they have it. Enjoy.
22
Checks and balances work when there's corruption in our government.
They do not work when the electorate has been corrupted. The minds of many of these people have been permanently altered by Fox News for 23 years, and Rush Limbaugh for much longer. They no longer deal with reality, with facts. And as they say in biology circles, if you're not responding to facts then you're not adapting.
And if you're not adapting, you're dying.
15
Ah, Ms. Daniels has done her own research. God help us all! We’re definitely up a creek.
40
Thank you! Research is a systematic investigation that establishes facts (for example conducting experiments and applying statistical analyses or gathering evidence from primary sources) and generates new conclusions or confirms previously held conclusions. Research is NOT perusing magazines and newspaper articles, accumulating the opinions of friends and family or (good grief) watching the television news. People need to stop pretending they’re scholars and accept that what they see on the cover of National Enquirer while standing in line at the grocery is “research.”
14
I voted for Obama, then I voted for Obama again, then I voted against Hillary Clinton and her clique. Now I will vote against the corrupt, conspiring clique that has sabotaged the fairly elected President of the US, and us as a country for the past three years.
5
@Ronald Weinstein What conspiracy?
1
Thanks for letting everyone know that you like the guy with the “unmatched wisdom”.
1
@Diego
Well, since I am doing the same as the OP should be fine to accept my "you are welcome". I am proud to support President Trump and do not care even the slightest how you denigrate me as a result of that choice.
3
Trump will be re-elected. Not because h's a great president or a decent human being. No, he'll be re-elected because so many Americans are motivated by hate and he's been slinging red meat for bigots for years. This isn't new, it isn't surprising. One just has to understand that Americans are mostly motivated by hate and greed. Its sad, but it is who were are as a nation and it will never change.
9
He’ll be re-elected if people don’t get out to vote.
9
Up for grabs?
Amazing.
After three years of watching this president abuse his power, obstruct justice, defy the absolute constitutional powers held by Congress, alienate every long standing ally, break treaties, start a trade war, embrace and side with murdering dictators over our own national intelligence agencies, divert money from much needed defense projects to pay for his vanity wall, hold secret meetings and hide transcripts of those meetings with adversaries, make up stories and lie incessantly to the America...
and yet the vote by these people is still "up for grabs"?
Our nation is in deep deep trouble.
33
“I’d vote for the Democratic nominee no matter who it is at this point,”
Amen. Though I personally hope that it's not Tom Steyer.
“Ms. Daniels said she voted for Mr. Obama twice because he faced Republicans she disliked and regarded as members of the establishment. She called Senator John McCain, the 2008 nominee, ‘a traitor to this country,’ adding, ‘I’ve done my own research.’”
With no disrespect intended to those who may share a perspective similar to this: the 'establishment' in question is called the Republican Party, and Donald Trump is a heresy to the fundamental ideology of said Party.
As for John McCain, that man was a war hero. Unlike most heroes, McCain was fortunate enough to return to his country alive, and was devoted enough to spend the rest of his life in public service, after spending five years at the Hanoi Hilton.
22
@ubique I wish the reporter had followed up on her statement on why she considers McCain a traitor. It would be interesting to find out how someone could possibly come to that conclusion. A lot of the problems with these stories is people make broad statements and no one bothers to ask for details, thus the endless, feedback loop of unsupported "facts" we have heard for the past 2 and 1/2 years.
3
Mark Graham—the Erie gentleman who says he “took a gamble” last time and voted for Trump—is being very wise in knowing when it is time to CUT ONE’S LOSSES!
It is as important with a bad politician as it is with a bad investment.
8
I was an Obama-Trump voter. It was the first time that I have ever voted for a Republican in a Presidential election. Being in Vermont, Trump had no chance of winning the state, so it made no actual difference.
My hot button is is petty corruption and ethical lapses. With Trump, it comes with the territory, but I was completely turned off by Hillary's $12 million speech tour from organizations seeking influence in the next White House. I supported Sanders in the primaries, mostly because he was not Hillary.
I am, at this point, undecided on the next general election. While Trump is a repugnant person, he has taken on issues that others have kicked the can down the road for too long.
Had Biden run in 2016, I would have supported him. But the revelations of the Joe/Hunter situation, with Biden's refusal to take it on directly, is a fatal flaw to me.
The nominee who would guarantee my Democratic vote would be Liz Warren. She is Teddy Roosevelt reincarnated, and smart as a whip. She would not give China a free ride, as Biden would. Go Liz, Go!! That lady is a Junkyard Dog for the middle class.
16
The woman who doubts Trump is lying needs help. His lies are documented on live TV. For a prime example, I hope she watches the video of the press conference following Comey's sworn testimony. At 22:30 in the youtube video (ABC news), Jonathan Karl asks if Trump would be willing to testify under oath, like Comey had. At 22:40, Trump emphatically declares "100%!", which was bald faced lie #1. At 22:43, a few seconds later, and again on live TV, he lies about that lie, saying "I didn't say under oath".
11
@Ralph ~ "For a prime example, I hope she watches the video of the press conference following Comey's sworn testimony..."
And therein lies the rub. If she had truly "done her research" as she claims, she would see the Mad Hatter for what he is. Don't bank on the blind sided trump supporters doing any sort of actual research, unless it involves Fox 'News", Breitbart, or any other pie-in-the-sky entertainment channel.
Depressing to read what some people say. Just so depressing.
16
It is unlikely that the "Erie" types are going to vote for Warren or Sanders. Biden, more likely.
I here these people, but getting tired of understanding their side.
How about they read the right news sources (and more then one)? That would help them understand and also see what Trump & GOP does vs just listening to what they speak.
GOP & Trump are classic speak one vs do other kind of viruses.
5
She called Senator John McCain, the 2008 nominee, “a traitor to this country,” adding, “I’ve done my own research.”
I would love to heard her elaborate upon the “research” she has done to teach her conclusion that McCain was a traitor. Did I vote for him? No. But whatever else McCain might have been, I have yet to see any plausible evidence that he was at any point purpoefully working against the interests of the US.
43
Comments I’ve recently heard or read in the Times:
—Some rural voters believe Democrats think those voters are racist. Or not very smart. So they vote for the other side.
—Trumpers hate liberals.
—And they don’t want a penny
spent that doesn’t benefit them.
One takeaway for me is to be kinder and more respectful when commenting on any Website
6
@Susan Orlins
Your comment implies that it is understandable that Trump supporters hate liberals and approve of expenditures only when they directly benefit themselves. At the same time, it unacceptable for Democrats to view anyone as a racist or not very smart. Why the imbalance? Why do Democrats always have to be the (only) nice guys?
1
*extreme sarcasm*
Weird. Turns out a corrupt business mogul who built casinos and consequently bankrupted them with monsters in Atlantic City doesn’t really care one bit about factory workers. If only there was some way for them to know!
17
"She called Senator John McCain, the 2008 nominee, “a traitor to this country,” adding, “I’ve done my own research.”
I would have liked some followup to that assertion. I didn't vote for McCain, but he's certainly not a traitor. She claims to have done research--QAnon? Where do people get this stuff?
I don't know how we can have a functioning democracy when the "facts" people believe vary so widely.
22
I think Lyne Daniels got it wrong as to whom Trump has "played like a fiddle."
26
hindsight is 2020!
2
Please take a hard critical look at what is happening to this nation right now. And then vote what you know rather than what you feel.
Stop Drop and Roll.
As a nation we are at the Roll stage.
4
"My Dad voted for 17 people today. I kno becuz I counted them", proclaimed my 2nd grade daughter in her school's daily journal. Teacher my children Civics was always huge.
"Dad, can we go see President Bush? He is in Erie today!", that same daughter queried years later. I replied aloud: "Yeah, let's go" while quietly thinking ("OMG! I've created a little Republican!).
Time flew. Trump popped into Erie for the 2018 run, along with the most miserable Congressman in my entire life, Mike Kelly...a lackey who holds phone rallies. Oh yeah!
"Did you see your President?", I asked that daughter a week later. (She now has a Masters Degree).
"Dad!!, she replied,..HE thinks that BEACH SAND is the most important need in my life!
Note: Our 7 miles of beaches on Presque Isle get sand replenishment annually, or the Lake waves would move the Park to Buffalo.
She is one Republican that says "Sayonara" to the agenda free Prez. Think college debt!
My sister voted Trump on abortion issue...huge in our Catholic Diocese. In a recent visit to her, the news was on and she looked at me with anger in her eyes at what Trump's latest nausea inducing words were saying.
Vehemently, she yelled: "I voted for him! I WON'T do it again!!"
My footsteps seem lighter.
A new horizon is coming into view. Life is getting better.
People are paying attention.
And yet, Dems have not started to run someone against Mike Kelly...yet!
And Mr. Toomey with his Gang of 8 taxcut for the rich...enjoy your last term.
6
Millineals don't vote which is a gift to Trump. Thank God Gen Z is coming to knock them aside.
6
I am no fan of Trump nor the Republican Party...but if anything is sliding head first down a slippery slope, it’s the faction formerly known as the Democratic Party...now aggressively pushing the ‘Leftist-Socialist-Progressive’ agenda...a toxic brew of anti-Trump hysteria, race and gender identity politics, mendacious cheerleading and obstructionism on behalf of illegal immigrants, and obsessive hand-wringing over anything and everything ‘Israel’.
Good luck convincing my family...Democrats, all....to vote in support of de facto open borders, free’ health insurance and sanctuary for illegal aliens, the demise of private health insurance, the transfer of $Billions in student loan debt onto the backs of taxpayers, slavery reparations. Guess whom we won’t be voting for come 2020...
17
@Susanna Socialist agenda? You mean the GOP right? They are taking my hard earned money and giving it to the farmers for free! That my friend is textbook socialism! If the failed GOP policies destroy farmers so be it, they voted for him. I want my money back! #socialistGOP
4
@Susanna
"I am no fan of Trump nor the Republican Party...but "
Everything following this phrase is what the Republicans want you to think so congratulations you've fallen for their deception! The "leftist-socialist-progressive" agenda that people like you so decry happens to include healthcare for all, living wages for all, and environmental protections. How ludicrous that you're so against these measures.
2
@Susanna Considering that we are months away from having a nominee, I think refusing to vote Democratic at this point is misguided.
2
McCain...a traitor to the country...Wow. Ms. Daniels would do well to re-evaluate that statement. As far as I’m concerned, Senator McCain was one of America’s greatest patriots. Anyone re-spreading that kind of fake news is completely mis-informed. Please keep your critical thinking caps on America.
30
Mr. Gabriel should talk with the grape-farming community in Erie County, in North East, PA.
1
It is pointless to try and chase the whims of people like this.
14
I am ashamed that so many fellow Americans, like Ms. Daniels, decided to vote for a Twitter troll for President.
23
Oh boy, my favorite was the woman who called McCain “a traitor to this country,” adding, “I’ve done my own research.”
No word yet on whether she also thought Obama was born in Kenya. You know, because of “her own research.”
38
Why do we never see articles on well-off suburbanites who swing to Democrats in the midterm?
12
Rural PA chose Trump (suburban Pittsburgh and suburban Philadelphia rejected Hillary) - likely because of his promises of a wall, a country hostile to immigrants, and the destruction of Obama's legacy (and the republic in the process).
Have they now not got what they wanted? Have they built a better future for their children?
Could this happen to nicer people?
As a liberal, I have read everything I could get my hands on (not just Hillbilly Elegy) to explain away my sense of dread after November 2016, when I expected Krystallnacht. Then Charlottesville happened, and I learned that the nice young Nazis had the sympathies of all republicans. Monica Potts' recent article in NYT is similarly enlightening.
It is not that people don't understand the concerns of, or cannot empathize with, rural America and its anger and resentment.
It is likely that coastal and big city denizens are beyond caring. It is hard to empathize with people, and sit on the same table with people who line up behind Nazis, demonize immigrants, and display a host of self-destructive behaviors and demand "I have a problem, what are you going to do about it?" while holding a gun pointed at me, and one at their foot.
What I know beyond a shadow of doubt is that a republican congress and a republican in the WH will completely defraud their voters out of virtually everything, siphoning their money toward big businesses and overseas factories while sending federal dollars to create more dependence.
35
@Kalidan, well said. I wholeheartedly agree except that I wouldn't say that these folks have a gun pointed at you. No, they've got their empty hands extended, asking for more government funds. You know, the government they deplore so much? This is very much the case where I reside in the South. Too many down here hate blue state politics but suck up a great deal of blue states' tax money because they just can't quit the GOP.
5
Gave him a shot?
You mean the pathologically lying career-criminal? The unapologetic racist who grabs the crotches of unsuspecting women? The failed used-car salesman who refuses to show his tax-returns? The man who went bankrupt so many times he had to turn to the Russian's for money because no American bank would touch him? The single largest financial loser in the country for most of an entire decade? The unhinged conspiracy theorist? The silver-spooned draft-dodging ego-maniac with a persecution complex?
That guy?
Well, that's the best idea I've heard since some self-described "genius" suggested we build a moat around the country and fill it with snakes and alligators to keep out the "drug-dealing, rapist immigrants".
47
@Chicago Guy I know right
@ Chicago Guy
Oh, Chicago Guy. You gave me the best belly-laugh this morning. Thank you.
Like you, I can, at a moment’s notice, recite the immoral, unethical, illegal acts of our Wanna-Be Dictator. Sad, but true.
I think we've reached a similar point in our history as Rome, just before the Republic was replaced by a series of strongmen. They had already become an empire, as have we, and the governance of it is too complicated, and much of it too secret for the citizens to understand. And it, just like us was badly run by a Senate made up of plutocrats whose interest in governance was purely personal, and more about maintaining their wealth and privilege, and the rest of the country be damned.
Democracy seems like a great idea, but it always ends this way. The Greeks even voted theirs away.
12
@Slideguy Governance of the US is NOT too complicated to understand. The US federal government is also much more transparent than many others. But citizens need to take responsibility for educating themselves about things that matter to them.
2
@Lawyermom Apparently not. Trump is the president, right?
It's really hard for me to wrap my head around the idea that a person who voted for Obama in 2008 and 2012 could vote for Trump in 2016. But to paraphrase Hillary Clinton right before the election, half of Trump supporters love his divisive, racist rhetoric -- the other half feel left behind and are simply desperate for change.
Trump won the electoral college by a teeny, tiny margin of 70,000 votes spread out over three swing states. These are the voters who decided 2016 and they are the same voters who will decide 2020. It seems as though many of them are now wise to the Trump con. But the Democrats would be wise to take these people into the fold.
In my opinion, the Democratic candidate for president would need to be someone empathetic to the plight of these people and have the ability to address their concerns with sincerity.
353
@Vickie Good points but you're assuming the same amount of democrats will vote in 2020 as in 2016... I assure you there will be a lot more going to the polls this time.
32
@Vickie
Amen, I remember when Hillary was running I would often tell anyone who would listen all she had to say to the people in the mid west, was simply " we didnt do right by you" when all the jobs were shipped overseas. We never did real technology job training, she should of held a town hall meeting with these CEO's who could bring jobs back to those areas. The CEO's made money by sending good jobs overseas and did nothing for their employees who were left behind. The NYT wrote story after story and nothing was done. The CEO's have always shown disdain for the working people in this country
Right now the autoworkers are on strike, the democratic candidates need to be holding town hall meetings where they workers are striking and explaining why they are striking to the rest of the country. The government saved the auto industry in 2008 and they need to do right by the people.
GE is cutting pensions ,the candidates need to talk about these issues right now. I dont care how old Biden, Warren, Sanders, Yang, Beto, Castro etc is they need to be talking to people who are hurting and forget about the madman in the white house. The con man has enough to deal with now that his wish to be impeached to increase his fund raising machine has come true.
28
@Vickie What exactly are their concerns? From this Southerner's vantage point, their concerns seem to be the same concerns of the Southern segregationists more than a half-century ago.
24
Education is not a priority in America, unlike most other nations I’ve been to. The result is an electorate largely unable to make reasonable assessments and decisions about whom to vote for, evidenced by the article’s interviews.
It’s hard not to think the GOP is well-served by such a scenario and does its best to perpetuate it. See: right-wing radio, Fox News, the Senate, Reagan, Trump, etc etc
19
The margin in Pennsylvania was only 43,000 votes in 2016. Yes, what happens in Erie County might matter. But what matters more is what will happen in Bucks, Montgomery, Delaware, and Chester Counties. That's because Erie County has only 115,000 votes, while Bucks has over 340,000, Chester has 265,000, Delaware County about 290,000, and Montgomery County about 420,000. The electoral battle is in the Philadelphia suburbs, along with the Detroit and Milwaukee suburbs.
Add to those the Raleigh/Charlotte suburbs, the Atlanta suburbs, the Miami suburbs, and the Phoenix suburbs, and 2020 could be an electoral shift like we haven't seen in decades.
10
A Trump vote is still a protest vote.
(Surprising given he is the sitting president).
And there are enough people who are unhappy with California-style Democrats (Harris, Pelosi), political correctness (all the a-z words..), corruption ($50k per month for Hunter..!) to ensure another trump victory. The election will not be decided in Chelsea or the nicer parts of Bklyn. The recent article from Arkansas (library..) was very good and convinced me that dems don’t have a chance.
8
@Me Arkansas isn't going to vote for a Democrat.
But the Philadelphia suburbs will, and the margin in PA in 2016 was 43,000 votes. The Milwaukee suburbs will, and the margin in WI in 2016 was 23,000 votes. The Detroit suburbs will, and the margin in WI was 11,000 votes.
Add in the Raleigh/Charlotte burbs in NC, the Atlanta burbs, the Miami burbs, and the Phoenix burbs, where some of those Obama-Trump voters see how big a mistake they made, and Trump doesn't have a chance.
Because I don't know a single person who voted for Hillary Clinton in 2016 that would vote for Trump in 2020.
10
Maybe he should look at the results again from the vote in 2016 when Hillary actually won the popular vote by almost three million votes.
10
@C L Moore
Hillary won California by 4 million votes. She won the national popular vote by 3 million. What does that tell you?
How long would we last as a nation if ONE state decided the presidency?
Take a look at the 2016 election map by counties (counties are not gerrymandered). You'll be surprised by what you see.
1
@Ian Montgomery County PA has more residents than Wyoming, Alaska, Vermont, North Dakota, and South Dakota.
How long would we last as a nation if acres decided the presidency instead of people?
2
I'm not really interested in what these people have to say. One big problem with American democracy has been that it has involved flattering and fawning over the electorate, cozening them until they think a brain is not really required for elections. It's become a big America's Got Talent popularity contest or a vote for prom queen or an expression of pure self interest, and not the solemn choosing of the most capable leader of the world's biggest economy. By some magic, out of millions of badly-informed cheerleaders is supposed to emerge wisdom. Mencken was right.
10
Donald Trump in a second term, with his get out of jail free card obtained as a result of the Mueller investigation, and a Republican Senate, is the worst threat to democracy on the planet.
15
"Mark Graham, a real estate appraiser in Erie, voted for Mr. Obama, but in 2016 he took a gamble on Mr. Trump."
No. Voting for Trump was not a gamble. Anyone paying the slightest attention and believing what their eyes saw and their ears heard knew exactly what a Trump presidency would be. Jeb Bush had it exactly right. It's chaos, and that's being kind. Voting for Trump was irresponsible.
861
While I cringe at the careless approach to voting for President, I actually appreciate this guy’s candor calling it a gamble. He had no convictions or rationale for voting for Trump. He approached it as buying a lottery ticket or a casino night, as though he could cut his losses. What he doesn’t realize is that Trump took his chips, doubled down, bet the house and we all lost.
67
My parents voted for Trump. We discussed it (again) this weekend. They were sold on the belief that Hillary was very corrupt, and thought that 1) Trump would conform to the office once elected; and 2) that having a businessman in office would clean up the gridlock in washington.
They had an Elaine Luria sign in their front yard in 2018 and now support impeachment. So, I get what this guy is saying.
43
@John
.. It's the holier-than-thou attitude as seen in your comment that really turns these swing voters off from Democrats..
--The easy and condescending judgement you pass on these people (who actually sound like thoughtful, decent voters), is the same sort of out of touch nonsense that sunk Hillary Clinton..-- And it could well sink Dems again..
5
The woman who did her "research" on John McCain apparently didn't read any of the Mueller Report, which puts in stark relief the fact that Trump's campaign accepted Russia's help. Something tells me her research consists of watching Hannity.
38
The Ms. Daniels of the electorate seem beyond repair and interviewing them is pointless. Once people disappear down the rabbit hole of questioning even what is right about to smack them in the face , wondering if maybe it’s some vast Matrix-like conspiracy, then we’re in the realm of faith, which tends to ignore evidence, logic, empiricism and all the rest of those thing Trump and his followers oppose.
19
the showtime show "the circus" just had an excellent episode. among other things - they went to a town hall in clinton/rhinebeck, ny (happens to be where my daughter and family live) and the new representative, Anthony Delgado, a democrat (the district was carried by trump but went from red to blue) , announced that he has been a holdout but now supports the impeachment inquiry. the district is 1/3 dem/rep/indep. a trump supporter w a MAGA hat first said "you don't represent me" (the rep happens to be black - Antonio Delgato https://delgado.house.gov/about)
and asked a very good question: what exact law did trump violate. delegate answered w great focus and detail quoting chapter and verse the exact law.
after the town hall the reporter (Alex Wagner) asked the MAGA if he was influenced by Delgado and the precise response to his question re the law that was broken. MAGA's answer is the exact problem we have in this country - although provided w the exact law w great focus and precision the MAGA said he still doesn't know what law was broken and think trump did. not brake any law and said with pride - "this is trump country."
ignorant. full stop.
13
I've read and heard a lot of talk about whether Trump can retain former Obama voters who supported him in 2016. The bigger question that no one seems to be addressing is whether Trump can convince any voters who supported Clinton in 2016 to switch over and vote for him in 2020.
If Trump can't significantly expand beyond his 2016 base, then all talk about him getting repeat votes is moot--he's going to lose in 2020.
11
@Mark Exactly - if Trump loses suburban women he's toast.
He's toast.
6
@LEM That is exactly right. One of most striking statistics from 2016 was that 54% of white women voted for a self admitted sexual predator with no governmental experience over a highly qualified woman. How does that feel to them now?
2
I was born and raised in the rust belt and I have family there still. I am of the belief that Hillary really didn’t understand the problems that are on going there.
The people in Pennsylvania where I come from have been struggling for a long time.
The Democrats need to go listen to these people. Listen, not talk, listen and come away with a genuine understanding of their sense of loss, their frustration and their fear.
I think Biden does understand. I think Bernie is out of the picture now but some of the other Democrats, Elizabeth Warren and Michael Bennett have the personal ability to listen and understand. If we are to have a Democratic president, candidates have to address these people who have been and feel abandoned.
19
@Jeanne M
you are right that clinton/obama/bush/romney have failed Erie
what is hard to understand is how at this point anyone could think trump is better for Erie
that is just stupid
8
@Jeanne M So they voted for the guy with the gold toilet from Manhattan? I am SICK AND TIRED of hearing and reading about Trump voters. The democratic party should write them off, they are beyond reach.
Demographics are going in favor of the democrats. Concentrate on young people and women and minorities and get out the vote. I am so sick of hearing about rural America. They keep voting against themselves.
9
spot on about listening. which can also go a long way to quelling the racism in some.
My slogan is "vote blue, no matter who". The president of our country used to be someone to respect, to believe, a person we asked to be a leader in good times and bad, someone who represented ALL the people no matter who they voted for. When our president spoke, we listened, and so did the world. Most of us didn't have to cringe in embarrassment. Our position in the world, the opinion of the other global nations (yes, it counts), has been greatly diminished by the current administration and it will take years to undo the tremendous damage to the environment alone. Our personal rights are being gutted every day by an increasingly "conservative" government. I cannot think of a single positive thing the current president has done or is doing to improve anyone's life but his own.
33
@Jean Yes and even his successes are going to have to be paid for by young people, i.e. the tax cuts, deregulation, not to mention alienating allies and the opposition.
15
@Jean
Trump used to be a Democrat. Not surprised in a Democrat city.
Any way the wind blows is Trump.
2
“We know now that in the early years of the twentieth century this world was being watched closely by intelligences greater than man's and yet as mortal as his own. We know now that as human beings busied themselves about their various concerns they were scrutinized and studied, perhaps almost as narrowly as a man with a microscope might scrutinize the transient creatures that swarm and multiply in a drop of water. With infinite complacence people went to and fro over the earth about their little affairs, serene in the assurance of their dominion over this small spinning fragment of solar driftwood which by chance or design man has inherited out of the dark mystery of Time and Space. Yet across an immense ethereal gulf, minds that to our minds as ours are to the beasts in the jungle, intellects vast, cool and unsympathetic, regarded this earth with envious eyes and slowly and surely drew their plans against us. In the thirty-ninth year of the twentieth century came the great disillusionment. It was near the end of October. Business was better. The war scare was over. More men were back at work. Sales were picking up. On this particular evening, October 30, the Crosley service estimated that thirty-two million people were listening in on radios.”
--- ORSON WELLES, Opening words of the “War of the Worlds” radio broadcast, 10/30/1938
Eighty-one years later and Trump’s supporters are still expecting the Martians and believing in every lie and piece of fake news he tells them.
18
@A. Stanton, it was America’s loss Rod Serling never got to run for President.
1
Let's just take a look at two of the voters interviewed for this article:
Mark Miller, a longtime conservative who obviously cares deeply for his family, his employees and his country. He is struggling with Trump's failure to act presidential, and despite his long-held conservative beliefs, is considering voting for a Democrat to get Trump out. I can deal with Mr. Miller because I respect him and see him merely as a fellow citizen who approaches his love of country and family from a different perspective as I do, but we both want essentially the same thing.
And then we have Lyne Daniels, whose obvious denial of empirical facts and "own research" has led to her to conclude that Senator McCain is a traitor. I fear her and voters like her the most, because even if the Democrats sweep all three branches of government in 2020, there will still be millions of Lyne Daniels out there.
131
@Know/Comment I respect and identify deeply with your thoughts. The Lyne Daniels of this world (this country and the wold), are particularly of the type who would "research" their way into areas outside of their understanding and feel that they know just enough of it to become an "expert". You know the kind - the "anti-vaxxers" who think they know as much as a physician. This is the basis of the Dunning-Kruger effect.
21
Doesn’t Freud speak of people identifying with their aggressors, the bullied rooting for their bullies because it empowers them and makes them winners? Isn’t that Trump’s appeal in a nutshell?
On to impeachment and removal—or quicker yet, 25 45.
22
Thanks for this article about one real estate guy in Pennsylvania who’s changing his vote.
13
From where I stand, it seems the Democratic party establishment is hellbent on nominating yet another Wall Street-approved corporate Democrat in the mold of HRC and Obama. And it seems the party is also unwilling to re-examine their embrace of one of the most damaging ideologies in history: Neoliberalism (i.e., "free market fundamentalism").
If that's the posture, I can only conclude that they would rather lose to Trump than to question the inherent corruption of the current system (arrangement).
The way I see it, unless Trump is removed from office through impeachment (and iffy scenario), the real choices are either him or Bernie. In other words, if Democrats anoint another corporate Democrat, they're likely to lose to Trump.
8
@Luis Mendoza Don't worry, Warren will be the nominee!
1
@Luis Mendoza Warren is running on anti-corporate monopoly & corruption and anti-lobbyists policy platforms. She was the only strong voice that continuously called out Geitner bailing out the banks and turning a back on home ownership. Whether she can pull any of it off is a whole other question.
1
Great insights on voter sentiment. Democrats have work to do.
I fear that Democratic ramblings are sooo boring, to many voters.
I think they need simpler, repetitive messages that CLICK, easily.
I think they need DRAMA, and a DREAM for the nation's future.
Trump destroys democracy, and he gets media dominance, daily.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I suggest Democrats have campaign contests for winning ideas.
For example, one of my ideas is the use of the "Democracy" song.
Leonard Cohen sang, "Democracy is coming to the USA" (1992)
I have repeatedly suggested the song to NY Times writers.
As far as I know, the Times has not taken me up on this idea.
"Democracy is coming to the USA"
-------------------------------------------
1
" He had voted for Barack Obama, but in 2016 he took a gamble on Donald Trump".
A real estate appraiser decided to give his vote to a man whose real estate ventures were known failures; someone without "a lick" of government experience- except taking government money. Mark's vote contributed to the horrific freak-show of government we now have.
The "Marks" of the voting-word seem to think if they mouth the words: I voted for Barack Obama... that will make their Civic Malfeasance palatable. It won't.
34
Always so depressing to read accounts of Obama-Trump voters. They profess that they don't know what to believe. In other words, they refuse to acknowledge FACTS. That's what is so disturbing. Millions of Americans have such a high level of ignorance which enables Trump to continue his incompetent reign without much disturbance. I wish these voters were asked about Mitch McConnell and his role in holding up all sorts of legislation that would help ordinary Americans. I'd love to see how they answer that question!
33
Sure, I'm happy to vote for whoever the Dem candidate is, but see storm clouds on the horizon. My worst fear is they will pick someone too far left and lose many of those independents + voters who "took a chance" on Trump.
Elizabeth Warren is already struggling with Black, Hispanic and 50+ voters. I expect the Democrat will win the popular vote. Warren could win by 5 million votes thanks to NY and CA alone, but the only number that counts is 270 in the Electoral College.
Yesterday NYT ran a piece about Warren connecting with Black voters. Coincidentally, the L.A. Times has a piece about her struggles with the Hispanic community...
https://www.latimes.com/politics/story/2019-10-06/elizabeth-warren-lags-with-latino-voters
4
It is time to rid ourselves of the Electoral College, plain and simple!
All "true" democracies elect leaders by popular vote!
23
Please check out how parliamentary systems work. They don’t select leaders by direct popular vote.
I don’t like the electoral college, but if we had direct voting, deep red states would stuff the ballot boxes.
1
Is the best option here to pay Democrats to temporarily move to Michigan, Wisconsin or Pennsylvania in time to register to vote? Seems like an evil plot, kinda like asking a foreign country to investigate your competition.
10
And like gerrymandering, hindering voter registration, legislatures changing the rules when Democrats get elected to the executive, etc.
No, Trump’s behavior in office is not a “joke”, it is a tragedy.
25
I'm exhausted reading about these backward towns. We're supposed to care about their opioid usage, their votes, their fears, their hatreds. Enough!
Can we, please, start focusing on issues that affect us all? Climate change, homelessness, affordable housing, underresourced public schools, health care costs and disparities . . .
30
To me, 2020 boils down to this for these voters:
Did they vote for him because they truly believed he would bring back manufacturing jobs and make their financial future more secure? If so, has he delivered on those promises to them?
Or will they vote for him again regardless of the economic outcomes because they are aligned with his racist anti-immigrant policies-by-tweet?
16
A lot can change in the next 13 months, Trump can clean up his act. it’s hard to unseat a sitting President.
The for profit MSM will churn out 24/7 anti-bias article after article , wouldn’t matter, polls are distorted,
It’s football season here in America, most Americans could care less about political nonsense.
2
The constant media attention on white voters in three states, due to the undemocratic electoral college, is tiring and, I'm sorry to say, racist. It's also analysis based on the 2016 election. It ignores new voters, and implies that some voters are more equal than others.
12
@Blessinggirl The electoral college makes some voters more equal than others. We also need a larger house of representatives, and a population based senate so CA and NY don’t have the same number of senators as WY, NH, etc
@Blessinggirl The fact of the matter is my vote in CA means very little while the guy voting in the those 3 states are way more important.
Maybe people should take the initiative to start a GoFundMe so upset voters can temporarily move to these states to vote.
Trump has never worked for the common man a day in his life. He is the flim flam man, ripping us all off except the ultra rich. Vote for him again at the entire country's peril.
16
"Lost manufacturing jobs are being replaced by start-ups making computer and electronic parts." - I grew up in Erie in the 50s and 60s. This comment makes no sense. Erie was destroyed by offshoring manufacturing that started back with the Clinton NAFTA. I go back for class reunions periodically, starting in 89. In 89 things were good. Going through the 90s and into 2000 the whole city was destroyed by corporate greed offshoring jobs. Ross Perot was right and Erie proves it. There was the Hamermill paper company which was a huge employer. It is now acres of crumbled bricks with a couple huge smokestacks remaining. The whole company was off-shored. The GE parking lots are filled with overgrown weeds. These are the pictures you not seeing. WalMart took over all businesses in the township I come from. "start-ups making computer and electronic parts" aren't going to replace what is already destroyed in Erie. Qualcom makes electronics parts, billions of them, in China.
188
@swazendo
GE's decline in manufacturing started even before Clinton. Look at at the GE complex in Bridgeport, CT.
Look at other local companies: Remington Arms, Singer, Bridgeport Brass, Lycoming, Dictaphone, et al.
Time and technology marches on. Keep up or lose.
55
@swazendo Manufacturing jobs are dropping like a rock in the lake just about everywhere. Employment in healthcare, service, recreation and tech is still pointing upward. GE in Erie was revitalized for now by WABTEC’s expansion. My bet is on Erie to prevail and continue to grow in spite of rear mirror vision conservatives.
17
@swazendo Way before Clinton. It started in the 60/70's and was not related to politics, though after that people like Reagan exacerbated the issue. It started with the spreadsheeting of America, the sole pursuit of profit over everything else. Up until the 70's most of what you bought was still made in America. Jeans, sneakers, cars, TVs etc. Nafta wasn't responsible for my Keds being made in China of inferior materials.
46
My remark concerns Stephanie Johnson, the substitute teacher who thinks the decline in her church's attendance is because people are too divided under Trumps "leadership". I would be curious if it has more to do with the preacher's support of Trump/ The Republicans and they just wanted to worship.
28
Things need to change. Making things is better than selling things. Market choice is better that market command. People can allocate personal resources better than the government can. Household income has barely budged in my lifetime. The era of the big nanny state held in place by paid-for politicians and greedy insiders must end. Dismantling the old imperial ways is not pleasant work, just ask Luke Skywalker.
4
@Tim I can't ask Luke Skywalker for advice because, how can I put this plainly, he is make-believe. He is merely entertainment. Pretty much the same, in my book, as the tv reality show host for whom you evidently voted.
8
@Sue Okay, if you prefer, 'Saturn devouring his children taken as an allegory for the passing of generations' . . . so a little 3000 year old Greek make-believe for your supreme being delight.
1
1.Voted against Romney in 2012: the lack of sensitivity displayed by his "47%" speech, his coziness with and soft spot for the financial services industry, his refusal to reconcile his position on universal health insurance in Mass. vs what he would do at the federal level and refusal to offer specifics about his tax plan doomed him for me. 2. Voted for Trump in 2016:
1. He went after the political establishment which was so dysfunctional and entangled with special interests etc that it wasn't addressing the important issues of the day; 2. I was tired of being told what to do by the MSM, pollsters, pundits, the PC cult, etc. Trump has bypassed all that spin with his twitter account and his direct approach with the press; 3. I liked his policies. On these counts he has exceeded my expectations: His tax, economic and immigration policies have resulted in the lowest unemployment rate since 1969 and the lowest rate ever for minorities. He has taken on issues which other politicians have been too timid to put in play or tackle,i.e., North Korea, illegal immigration, China trade, Iran, the climate change agreement, foreign wars etc. Like it or not, we desparately needed this medicine. Drink it down America and reelect Trump in 2020!
10
@pete
Trump isn't supplying you or the country with medicine.
Keep drinking his poison and it will kill you.
1
@bemused pick your poison then
Anyone who voted for both Obama and Trump is not consistently voting on the basis of a candidate’s policy positions.
30
@J O'Kelly ...Consider the probability that many 2016 voters went with Trump as a protest against HRC, assuming she would win anyway.
6
Every time we see an interview of Trump voters, they complain about oversight taking away time from doing the work representatives should be doing.
The Democrats must do a better job of making it clear that they ARE doing their jobs, and highlight the important legislation they’ve passed that McConnell killed in the Senate.
63
Commenters should stop focusing on the electoral college and blaming it for our failure to get a candidate elected against someone like Donald Trump. We have no chance of changing the electoral college, so "forget about it." You are no more reasonable than Trump's voters blaming Mexicans for their loss of jobs. Do your job. Support a candidate who can win Michigan Wisconsin and Pennsylvania, who is acceptable to moderate voters. Work for this candidate and contribute money if you can. Put aside your wishlist, and face the current reality. Above all, abandon identity politics and focus on economic issues that broadly affect the population. It worked in 2018 and it will work now.
11
@ron l
Absolutely correct.
I do get the feeling, however, that the candidates are heading, with a couple of exceptions, toward the middle, and are cognizant of the situation.
3
@ron l Abandon identity politics? So, basically what you're saying is ignore government sanctioned and rampant racism, homophobia, transphobia and xenophobia and make all political decisions based on dollars and cents. I've been saying for years that most Americans in certain parts of the country are motivated by nothing more than greed and hate and you just helped prove that point.
1
A small, but significant number of Americans were frustrated with Hillary Clinton and fell for Trump's appeal that he Trumpeted from the rooftops:
"What have you got to lose?" [by voting for Trump]
Now they know the answer to that question. Trump's behavior says he supports himself and his oligarch friends and no one else. What he says is lies. "I won't get anything out of these tax cuts."
There is a substantial number of Americans who were on the fence and are slowly realizing that they are "losing" much more than they believed possible.
Trump will go down, maybe by as small a margin as he won by in 2016, but he will go down. This time the Democrat will also have a majority of the popular vote and not just the Electoral College.
4
@DGP I agree with you. I can see a lot of voters abandoning Trump, but I don't hear about many who voted for Hillary converting to Trump this time around. I think Trump will mostly lose voters, and a small percentage are required for the electoral college to flip.
2
I am encouraged to read that the "swing" voters in PA are having a change of heart. Let's hope that is a portent of things to come as the election campaign picks up steam.
My prayer to the DNC: please don't blow this.
I will watch the upcoming Democratic Debate next week even though the thought of 12 candidates vying for stage time gives me pause.
If the Dems really want to front a candidate who is the polar opposite of the current Oval Office occupant, then that person has to be Pete Buttigieg.
Young, well-educated, lucid, smart, progressive, honorable, a veteran. . . A decent man. While I admire and respect Joe Biden and Bernie Sanders, and I can take Elizabeth Warren in small doses, Mayor Buttigieg is the only candidate of the 12 who can give the American electorate a radically opposite and clear choice.
17
@Len I'm so glad to finally hear someone else talk about a possible Pete Buttigieg nomination! Does the electorate-esp the swing voters this article concentrates on- want someone not entrenched in Washington politics? Check. Does the electorate want someone rational and reasonable? Check. Someone who actually listens and responds directly in a clear, concise manner? Check. Intelligent? Yep. Willing to acknowledge when he drops the ball? Check. Empathic? Check. RESPECTFUL? Check again. Someone who has all this AND executive experience? Check. Check. Check. I implore ALL Americans to listen to, observe, and consider this refreshing candidate.
2
@Barb
I could not agree with you more @Barb. A few years ago I would have said Pete Buttigieg's candidacy was a long shot, but ever since Trump won I realize now that ANYTHING is possible!
2
"Although he called the president’s conduct in office “a joke,” he was unwilling to commit to voting Democratic in 2020, ..."
That's the problem with trump voters.
They think it's all a joke.
Thoughtful voters don't think that way. We take time to read and understand the issues.
I'm afraid the joke is on the trump voters.
32
@J. Prufrock The "we" vs "they" is what has us in this mess in the first place. Trump voters are your fellow Americans and have a say, too, clearly. Your divisive attitude? Joke is on ALL OF US.
I have a better idea. Instead of trying to convert a few thousand Joe the plumber trump voters in the PA, OH, MI etc. get the voters who sat at home to turn out. Getting the young voter to the polls will pay dividends to the dems for a generation.
22
At one time several decades ago, an uneducated or unmotivated individual, faced with either working or going the welfare route, could elect to live off surplus government foodstuffs & a rent voucher good for accommodation in a slum area or get a job at minimum wage to live a bit better in different surroundings. The able bodied quickly decided that work was the better option.
The problem today is that work in many jobs won't get you much better living standards than what the slackers & the infirm had fifty years ago. We're all familiar with people living in their cars, holding down jobs & unable to afford urban rents.
If labor doesn't organize universally & quickly in this age of skyrocketing living expense, chaos looms. Vote to hammer the plutocracy.
6
@Apple Jack so what you want are MORE homeless?
2
"Taking a chance" on indecency? What was there about the candidate that nobody expected? When irrationality is that prominent, it behooves us to look beneath the surface to what else is going on. And it's pretty dark there.
The only answer: be loud, clear, and get out the vote.
13
The brilliance, and I do mean brilliance of the GOP and Donald Trump is that they have hoodwinked people who they loath, poor and middle class people, into voting against their own best interests. We will see in this next election if the "grift" will hold, given the extreme criminality of Donald Trump.
27
The wild card in all of this is how will these swing voters react to the ultimate Democratic nominee. Thinking that they will all get swayed just because of how Trump acts and what he has done as a person I believe would be foolish on the part of Democratic strategists. If the nominee ends up being too far left with no indication that they would be open to discussion and compromise then I think that far fewer will be willing to go that route.
Too many Democrats dismiss the rural people, the "less educated" and frankly look down upon them. Clinton found out what happens when you classify them as unworthy. They have their biases and maybe do not speak in the manner that those with higher education do but make no mistake that these people are strong, proud people. They are loyal to a fault. They also recognize when they are being overlooked and they have long memories.
6
@DC Yet they continue to vote against their own interests. Explain that.
7
@DC Absolutely. Many Democrats appear to be making the same exact mistake they did in 2016. The arrogance and self-righteousness is incredible.
2
@barbraplease
But what are the democrats offering except for free healthcare, open borders with welfare for all, free college education, and identity politics.
The only place providing jobs in these places like PA are local hospitals that have not closed yet.
When they talk about healthcare jobs tied to the insurance companies many of the lower level jobs are in these areas. So a single payer plan might provide healthcare but take away the jobs.
and free college is not going to address what is needed which is retraining people to work in new industries.
The Democrats have not come up with training plans that really address these issues.
They are too busy talking about reparations, identity politics, and impeachment.
Even among educated adults when you consider how people waste their time on facebook, instagram, playing games on their phone, they are more interested in voting for dancing with the stars the voice & american idol then in the elections, watching real housewives of whatever city, and video games the electorate is really not as tuned in as the Democrats think to impeachment.
I think many people are very indifferent to what is going on as they plan their upcoming holiday trips to resorts here and abroad.
This is a very different time in history and the Democrats are overestimating how many Americans will actually take the time to get involved to make their senators or representatives vote for impeachment.
“I’ve done my own research.”
Whenever I hear this from a Trump supporter, it's a surefire guarantee they are utterly vacant of any connection to truth or fact. And discussion is a waste of time and energy.
47
@SteveZodiac At the end of the day, these Trump supporters are your fellow Americans who vote. What exactly does an attitude like yours constructively accomplish for the country, or is it just an exercise in self-righteous narcissism that you're able to validate in an echo chamber?
Yes, it’s very similar to “I’ve done my own research on vaccines”. Eye roll worthy.
5
Agreed. You have to imagine just how ugly that internet research must be. The graphics alone would give me a seizure.
3
When will the Times go to inner city Philadelphia, Detroit, or Milwaukee to interview people of color about 2020? What those folks did (or didn’t do) in 2016 swung those states to Trump as much as what the Obama/Trump voters.
And these voters will again determine the 2020 outcome as much or more than the Obama/Trump voters.
The Times’ Margaret Mead-like anthropological forays into the wilds of working class white society is getting old.
There should be equal focus and interest in voter suppression in places like Florida, North Carolina, and Wisconsin (among others).
19
We are still 13 months away from the general election, so a lot of what is said in this article can be taken with a grain of salt. The Democratic Party primaries have not even started yet, and President Trump's candidacy a year from now cannot necessarily be taken for granted. 12 months can also be a long time in the health cycle for anyone in their 70's, even someone with the extraordinary energy level of a politician. One thing that can be said based on the comments in this article is that if the Democrats choose to nominate Senator Warren, the same swing districts that Hillary Clinton lost in 2016 will be in peril again, even if the President Trump is still in place. This is a political problem, though, that can be solved with a strong effort to reach out to the undecided voters by using media that they pay attention to, and a Veep choice from the center of the Democratic party. The mistakes Clinton made in 2016 are evident to anyone who watches politics, and that makes it easy to avoid repeating them.
17
@David Godinez I might be sticking my neck out. Hope readers will keep a kindly open mind. I think the "front runners" are taking over with shrill unattainable messages. They are damaged, old, and tired. It is time for the sensible middle to speak up. I think it is time for another look at Candidate Gabbard. The discourse is open. Thanks.
2
@David Godinez So, no collaboration?
@Susan Brady I agree with your observation that too much emphasis is on 'the front runners.' For the sensible middle, please also look at Pete Buttigeig.
This is an excellent piece on Western PA. I worked for the Clinton and Obama voter protection teams in each election and met voters as an AFL-CIO staffer. People gave up on Clinton in Western PA because they hadn't seen any support for their problems, not did they see her. Trump, voters told me, was at least talking about jobs and trade. Worse, the Clinton Campaign would not spend on the get-out-the-vote campaign we'd prepared for all African-American communities outside of Pittsburgh and Philadelphia. That was a major factor in her losing PA.
Let's hope Democrats have learned the lessons of 2016. We need every voter to get to the polls in 2020. Then we can beat Trump!
474
@robmcgarrah My hometown is Erie. I also have two more stints in Western PA (Pittsburgh). The Democrats completely walked away from the residents of Erie and every other city/town like it.
It is my sincere hope that the democrats wake the heck up and become the party of all people again. We need to get Trump out of office and regain some civility and normalcy in our country again And we need to make our economy work for all citizens.
71
@robmcgarrah Except "people in Western PA" HAVE received handouts for their problems, they just want more. Democrats have supported numerous programs to help those kind of people, it's just never enough for them.
32
@Randall Yes, Democrats gave their jobs to China (and the technology in the process) and then provided them with handouts. Fair is fair, right?
6
I know people who voted for Trump to "shake things up," but they claim they don't support his views and treatment of women (citing the Billy Bush tape), his racism, his relationship with Russia and the meddling with the election, trying to buy Greenland, Kavanaugh appointment, the revolving, unstable Cabinet, gun views, his relationship with Evangelicals, and how he pulled strings with his wife's and her parents' immigration/citizenship, while he publicly denounces such policies, etc. In other words, the "idea" of him, but not the man himself or anything he stands for or has done.
I refuse to get into heated debates over Trump.
Like the people in the article, I assume they will come to their senses and realize what a gamble on him "to shake things up" has done to this Country. Republicans have other candidates to get behind; for example Governor Weld.
Look at all the coal miners that backed Trump. When they were stiffed on their hard-earned wages, where was Trump? They were completely abandoned and left with no paychecks paychecks in a part of the Country that has no other jobs for them. Will they abandon Trump or keep taking the gamble on him?
Will people who rely on Obamacare vote for Trump again knowing they will lose their coverage?
Americans have to forget the hype of Trump and gamble on him and think about how a vote for Trump will affect their lives and the lives of people around him.
59
The entire 2020 election is going to boil down into two groups, A) People who voted Obama 2012/Trump 2016, and B) People voting in their first presidential election. Those two groups in Michigan, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, and Ohio will determine the election. When it comes to group A, I sincerely hope, that more people have buyer's remorse rather then having been emboldened by the republican propaganda machine. I believe that if you switched parties in 2016, regardless of your personal feelings on Trump, you are most likely willing to hear both sides out -- they will vote for whoever they think will most improve their lives in the immediate future, and hopefully the Dems can prove that Trump doesn't have the rustbelts interests truly at heart.
22
@Max Berger I disagree. Clinton lost the electoral college because too many disaffected progressives voted Stein or Johnson. Warren is best situated to energize that wing of the Democratic Party, even if she loses some Obama- Trump voters who are unable to comprehend how the policies of the right negatively affect their household economics.
1
@Paul Smith
That the Warren who was Harvard Law's "First Woman of Color"? Or the Warren who can't remember why she left a job during her first pregnancy? She has the right stuff huh?
@Paul Smith Man you brought me down a really depressing worm hole while I was at work today. I didn't realize that both Wisconsin and Michigan could have been won just by 3rd party votes outside of the Green/Libertarian party. Combo of Green Party and and Constitution party would have won Hillary Pennsylvania. Even Florida could have been won with a combination of 3rd party votes. In fact Ohio/Iowa we're the only two states that Obama won in 2012, which Hillary couldn't have won in 2016 with the addition 3rd party votes. Thanks for opening my mind to that! Really crazy, sincerely hope that democrats can win over a portion of 3rd party voters for the 2020 election.
Do the right thing for all of the people, and by people, I do not mean corporations.
23
“A small-business owner with about 20 employees, Mr. Miller, 55, calls himself “a really conservative family guy,” who sent four children to Catholic schools.”
If he truly believes the things that statement conveys, than at least he ought to be honest and say that none of it mattered when it came to his vote. His overriding principles are economic, not conservative.
These rust belt voters are insufferable in their inability to state clearly what motivated them in 2016.
It is exhausting to try to understand people who make no real attempt to understand themselves.
105
@Mary
White voters didn't care about Trump's racism, xenophobia and misogyny. This nonsense re: 'how he spoke to them and their needs' is infuriating. They refused to look at his history of treating workers (his own) with complete disdain. They chose denial and still do. Infuriating!
11
"Ms. Daniels, who works both as a municipal secretary and for a clothing store, knows exactly who she’ll vote for in 2020: Mr. Trump."
Obviously Ms. Daniels has to work two jobs in order to make ends meet.
The very same pattern exists in WV, one of the poorest states of the nation.
The vast majority of those having to work 2 and sometimes even 3 different jobs to be able to put food on the table, to cloth their kids, to finance the extremely high deductions should a family member become seriously ill, still support the crook in the Oval Office.
But then, these voters have their tele locked on Faux Noise, where they get their opinions pre-chewed 24/7.
100
@Sarah Ms. Daniels said she voted for Mr. Obama twice because he faced Republicans she disliked and regarded as members of the establishment. She called Senator John McCain, the 2008 nominee, “a traitor to this country,” adding, “I’ve done my own research.”
This is hilarious. And sad.
7
These voters who elect presidents are crying out for the democrats to nominate a moderate progressive in tune with the area not an identity, social engineering obsessed on social issues and a neo con on most other issues candidate like Hillary.
By moderate progressive I mean issues that most Americans can agree on, number one being a national, affordable, quality health care system not stressing gay wedding cake cases to the Supreme Court.
Democrats, don't make the same mistake twice. Right now its Biden, but it could be anybody, white, black, young, old, male, female just not a Hillary type.
Learn from history or be condemned to make the same mistake in 2020, ie give the ego. maniac demagogue Trump another term.
14
@Paul I'm for an approach to the current "front runners" to help circle the wagons, including war chests, to support a moderate progressive: Candidate Gabbard.
1
@Paul Hillary was a moderate and look where that got us. Some Sanders supporters voted Stein or even Trump.
1
@Susan Brady - thank you for your reply. Yes circle the wagon is a good metaphor. As mentioned it could be anybody just not a Hillary type.
1
I just can’t comprehend how, and why, someone would Vote for Obama, and THEN for Trump. “ I gave the other guy a shot “. Sure, and I let a bunch of five year olds play with matches, in a straw filled Barn. Or, I told my Kids to go play in Traffic, on the Freeway. People, you’ve had your fun, and hopefully gotten it out of your system. The Party’s OVER, time for the clean-up.
Seriously.
119
@Phyliss Dalmatian When they say they "gave the other guy a shot," the operative word is "guy." It was a given they had to vote for a guy, not a woman, for gosh sake, so they had no choice -- Trump it was.
I'm not hopeful voters who "gave the guy a shot" have reached any enlightenment with regard to half the world's population, but maybe they'll have choice of guys in 2020
13
The problem is Fox News, and the right wing lock on AM talk radio. If the residents of the Erie area (where my wife's parents live) hear nothing but right wing propaganda, guess which way they'll vote? When I was visiting there this summer, it was hard for me to find NPR, but easy to find right wing radio singing the praises of "America's Con Man".
80
@dave
The same for mid and upper Michigan. Helps to understand some voting.
23
Absolutely true , and they have been doing it for decades. That’s why there’s such anger , Rushbo has been stirring the anger pot for decades, lying and baiting liberals, empowering right wingers with nonsense. Now, there’s even another conservative media outfit, Sinclair I think is it’s name...spewing propaganda in the mid-west, etc....
This destroys truth, when there are two opposing narratives. And it seems like trump makes more people get out there and spew his nonsense, than the democrats do.
10
@dave
Well there are few people at Fox who are starting to "wince" at this president's behavior...
Chris Wallace, Judge Nepolitano, Shepard Smith, and recently even good old "Tucker".
3
2016: Where can we find an uncouth, ignorant New York real estate developer with several bankruptcies under his belt to save our nation? A man who does not understand public finance or trade deficits or the Federal Reserve? A businessman who will increase our deficit with a stimulative tax cut at near-full employment? A Tariff Man who will tax Americans to hurt China? A guy who will emulate Soviet economics with protectionism and tariff waivers and engage in farm bailouts when the tariffs kill off family farms? Who will send out infantile tweets? Who will lie to us?
165
Mitt Romney, not John McCain, was the Republican 2012 nominee.
5
"Too big to fail and/or to be noticed" gerrymandering overlooked by the Federalist Society's Republican Supreme Court, voting rights suppression fostered by the Republican Supreme Court's overturn of enforcement of the Voting Rights Act, Bush v. Gore decision, Citizens United decision, legislative and gubernatorial reversal of voter approved referendums by Republican politicians in Florida, South Dakota, Maine, and Oklahoma, Election fraud, targeted disinformation campaigns by the Mercer's Cambridge Analytica and Putin's Russia.
Both sides don't do it. Only one! The Republican Party, a minority, are out to steal your country and your government.
Vote to save yourselves and your country in 2020.
60
Doth my eyes deceive me?
"She called Senator John McCain, the 2012 nominee, 'a traitor to this country,' adding, 'I’ve done my own research.'"
Last I checked, McCain was the 2008 nominee and Romney led the ticket in 2012.
58
@Abby - Fox news must have told her McCain was the 2012 nominee and was a traitor to his country. People need to educate themselves using sources unsullied by Republican right wing talking points & Russia.
3
Mr, Trump‘s unfitness for office was absolutely, positively clear during the 2016 election, and his behavior and demeanor only gotten worse.
All at the expense of the nation, it’s citizenry and the environment. The long lasting if not permanent harm caused and being caused by this fool is beyond measure.
I hope these voters reflect long and hard upon the damage their votes against Clinton have caused.
72
Yes ms daniels even among the ‘swing vote’’ there are willfully ignorant people
But i trust sanity to prevail
Dems pay attention to issues and it won’t be close
18
@Adam S Urban Warrior
This is America---please don't expect 'sanity to prevail.' Let's make sure Millennials get out and vote...in droves! Then we stand a chance. White, middle-age voters are still Trump supporters; their allegiance to policies that don't help them--or the country is crazy; don't count on them to do the right thing. They are too far gone!
4
@Adam S Urban Warrior
Make sure every Democrat is correctly registered to vote.
And get out the vote. Offer to take someone to the polls.
Complain to your representatives about Ivanka Trump's securing a Chinese approved patent for voting machines.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-usa-ivanka/china-grants-more-trademark-approvals-for-ivanka-trump-firm-including-voting-machines-idUSKCN1NB0TL
Gee, I wonder how these new Ivanka Trump
voting machines will be programmed to vote?
2
Ms Daniels calls John McCain a traitor to our country and likes our stable genius of a leader? WOW! I guess people can see all the same things and yet come to such divergent conclusions. I’m scratching my head on this one.
133
@Tim hey now Ms. Daniels claims to have "researched it". Who are you to argue with internet conspiracies?
9
@Tim...
She did her own research... LOL.
2
“If Mr. Trump gets into another four years, where he’s a lame duck, it’s going to be like adding gasoline to the fire.”
Very powerful evidence that with age, comes wisdom.
27
Too bad Ms. Daniel’s “own research” mistakenly concluded that Sen John McCain was the 2012 Republican Nominee. Mitt Romney, John McCain... I guess they sound pretty similar.
25
Ms Daniels, for Trump 2020, lost me with having concluded that McCain is a traitor to his own country. That’s simply an idea beyond the pale. And she votes - sad.
78
Mr. Miller would "like to see everybody get back to work on the business of the country.” Good for him and Erie, if that's true!
His positive sentiment is at odds with the recent opinion piece about Clinton, Arkansas, where the residents want to descend into the dirt and finish making it a 3rd world country.
Which of these is America? Which one do you want to make it with your vote?
16
Lyne Daniels called John McCain a “traitor” for this story, while voting for a draft-dodging game show host who recruited Ukraine to influence our elections. The magic potion of Trump’s appeal is perfectly illustrated with this voter.
May the truth prevail in 2020.
121
A quick search shows Erie PA is 75% white, 16% black.
It says something this county voted for Obama.
I'm sure it was hard hit by the 2008 recession. Instead of growing stronger, it just grew older. So it went all Trump.
This county doesn't need more evidence or legal wrangling to see if it's a good bet to double down on Trump. Agitprop notwithstanding, they can think for themselves. All Trumpers all the time? Maybe not even for a bunch of old white guys.
6
I would bet there are a lot more Lyne Daniels than Mark Grahams in Erie, Pa. In fact, Lyne Daniels told you the unvarnished truth - Who says the media is telling the truth? Who says Trump is lying? Who says Trump is anymore dishonest than the MSM?
I have now read the Ukrainian call transcript, the whistleblower complaint, Paul Volker's opening testimony and the committee's released texts. I look at the words and then read what the NYTimes says they are; and they are two completely different things.
I don't see ANY evidence of ANYTHING wrong. I definitely see an arc of the fact that the President doesn't trust the Ukraine and he certainly wants to get to the bottom of 2016. I also see he wants a member of the Obama administration to be investigated for an OBVIOUS conflict of interest. But there is nothing there that warrants the ensuing chaos. Nothing.
2
@Arthur Taylor
I believe you missed this part:
President Donald Trump’s latest and greatest scandal centers on a key decision: his suspension of US military aid to Ukraine.
The Eastern European nation was expecting nearly $400 million in US support including weapons, training, and advisers — to boost its effort to fight off Russia which invaded the country in 2014.
Trump used the suspension as leverage to extract something from his Ukrainian counterpart - to investigate his political rival, Joe Biden.
5
@Arthur Taylor
Not even election laws?
1
@Arthur Taylor So you clearly also need to read the US Constitution and the words of our founding fathers - what Trump did (extorting a foreign leader to get said leader to help him with his personal political campaign, and using high ranking officials to further that game, instead of doing their jobs serving the national interest) is as clear an act of abuse of power as any we have seen by a modern President. If after aquainting yourself with the rule of law and other values our government is supposed to be grounded in, and you still think Trump did nothing wrong, than just admit that you do not believe in our system of government and move to Russia. Clearly that is the system you would prefer.
1
Trump will win once again because Millineals will stand on line for their iPhone 104 rather than vote.
8
John McCain was the Republican nominee in 2008; Mitt Romney was the Republican nominee in 2012.
2
I suppose all that can be said about Ms. Daniels saying that "John McCain is a traitor" and she "has done her own research", no doubt echoing the far right wing nut echo chamber and her great leader trump, is the hope that trump voters this uninformed are a minority and that we can overcame the sheer awfulness of trump's behavior and attitudes such as this. I still must say shame on you Ms. Daniels.
60
To Ms. Daniels, I'd like to say: he's actually playing you.
79
Obama-Trump voters illustrate exactly why Democrats can’t nominate Biden.
They voted for Obama because he promised change. It didn’t matter that he was inexperienced, it didn’t matter that he is black,
It didn’t matter that he was young.
And Obama didn’t deliver change... like a good Republican, he protected the banks and corporations and let the middle class decay even more.
In 2016, Clinton ran, promising more of the same, more Obama, no change. She even promised to put Bill in charge of stuff! She lost to a candidate who promised change, even though he is the most clownish, oafish, ignorant, childish, impulsive, self-centered, egocentric, man I have ever had the displeasure of knowing.
Trump hasn’t delivered the promised change (though he’s certainly created chaos), so there is an opening for a leader who does promise genuine change.
Is Biden really the candidate of change?
Hardly. He’s Clinton, Mark II, with two presidential campaign losses already under his belt.
Democrats, please spare all of us from another “vetted,” “most electable” candidate of the centrist, corporate status quo.
I can’t take another 4 years of Trump.
497
@Objectively Subjective The voted for Obama because he inspired. They voted for Trump because they despised. The times differ, because Obama both left the nation in a better position when he left office, unlike Bush before him, and he did so while the GOP broke the government in an effort to stifle his success (voter suppression, holding up court appointments, unconstitutional gerrymandering, denial of a justice on SCOTUS); Trump harms the country because he destroys the nation in an apparent effort to hide his illegal acts and poor business decisions. However, he does so with a GOP ready to ignore the Constitution and allow the destruction of our institutions in order to preserve power and avoid being primaried. Biden does not inspire the way President Obama did, but after President Bush, we needed hope, inspiration, and definitely change. After Trump, the nation may simply need boring normalcy for just a little while. Biden likely seems safe to many, including moderate Republicans and Independents. The question is do Democrats want change more than steadiness following Trump, and that remains to be seen. With hope, this decision can occur without creating divisions so great we get four more years of chaos from Trump and the GOP.
63
@Objectively Subjective That's so funny, because I had a dream that I got health care from President Obama, which enabled me to keep at my small business, which I am now very successful at (knock wood). But if you say he was a "republican", I guess I really did dream that. Thanks for the clarification.
90
@Objectively Subjective Here’s a more realistic way to look at Obama. Like many politicians, he overpromised. Voters took him at his word, and then were surprised to discover that his ability to affect change was limited (and we voters didn’t help by giving him a Republican House and then later, a Republican Senate).
So what do we do? Well, we look for another savior who promises to fix all our problems, of course!
If we elect another Democrat, they will be even more sharply constrained than Obama: s/he will face a more conservative Court and if we’re lucky, 51 seats in the Senate. And then we’ll be disappointed all over again when instead of M4A, we get some modest ACA reforms and better drug pricing.
32
The sole accomplishment of the Trump administration has been a giant giveaway to the ultra wealthy in the form of tax cuts. At the expense of the working class. Yes, employment is high but wages are not. The gig economy offers nothing but hand to mouth subsistence. Anxiety is the national mood because most voters recognize that we are in another bubble. When it breaks, there's nothing solid to fall back on. Far more than tax cuts, we needed a giant infrastructure mission. But given a choice between the good of the nation and the greed of their donor class, the GOP was always going to favor the 0.1%.
I just don't understand why the democrats are not hammering the GOP on this night and day.
44
So many low income and middle class voters talk about “the economy” as their main issue, but I’d like to know how much their lives have financially changed for the better under Trump. I certainly haven’t seen a difference.
34
What I hear in my little corner of the world is, “What has Congress done ? All they worry about is getting trump out.” I really think Nancy Pelosi needs to keep hammering the point home on the 200 bills that have been passed by the House and not even looked at by the Senate. Remind the American people that the House IS continuing to focus on issues.
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@John Bergstrom Yes!! Nancy Pelosi should publish a list of all the bills that are gathering dust on McConnell’s desk.
The Democrats need to do a better job of communicating that the House is trying to improve the lives of ordinary Americans while the Senate Republicans sit idly by and do nothing.
5
@John Bergstrom absolutely. The Democrats are terrible about controlling the narrative. I sent the party am email about this just last week.
2
@John Bergstrom Yes - assign someone to talk about this ALL THE TIME, the way Schiff is compelled to talk about impeachment (it's his job...) Pick a Midwestern congressperson or Senator and get them in front of the camera every time Trump claims some stupid thing about the economy, or healthcare. Give the bill # and the date it was sent over. Have a calendar that shows the time stucc has been waiting, like the old debt clock in Times Square.
3
The electorate is under the impression that the House is doing nothing but trying to impeach trump. The Democrats need to learn from the Republicans: construct a short, easily digested message, and keep repeating it at every opportunity.
"We wrote bills about the issues that affect you (be specific), sent them to the Senate, and McConnell refuses to act on them."
McConnell is getting a free pass for gridlock. Make him own it!
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@Claire Elliott
only the electorate fixated on conservative radio, Fox News and social medial outlets!
3
@Claire Elliott , I sent an email to my MOC and the Democratic Party early last week, saying this very thing. Every week have a press conference listing all the bills passed and when they were sent to Senate.
Election security, violence against women act, etc. TV ads, billboards, Facebook ads. Say “This is what we are doing. What is Mitch doing.?” Then call him Do nothing Mitch. The Democrats are so lame about controlling the narrative.
6
"He said it was wrong for the president to ask a foreign country, Ukraine, to investigate a political rival, Mr. Biden".
Asking for this is plainly wrong - but extorting it by holding back desperately needed and congressionally earmarked aid from another country is an even larger wrong.
Trump interfered in Ukraine, the civil war there, and US foreign policy for his own political advantage.
That surely fits the definition of a" high crime" and impeachment, or nothing does.
30
Having read many of this type of article, one thing becomes clear. We truly have become a nation on low information voters. Repeatedly, people seem to make decisions not on any facts but rather falsehoods or worse yet, what they hear on FOX. The inability for complex or critical thinking comes through loud and clear. It is sad, discouraging and depressing
It is also time for reporters to spend some time in small, medium and large cities. We who live in such places have diversity of thought as well. Rapid City, Indianapolis, Cleveland, Flint, Toledo, Madison, Ann Arbor, Pittsburg, Spokane, etc. are not monolithic. Try going to population centers and yes , even university towns, and see what voters there are thinking. We vote as well and are quit tired of being characterized as elite, lazy because we work in offices, etc. Many of us are saddled with student loans, sit in traffic for hours, struggle with exorbitant day care costs, rent and housing prices, but find more economic opportunities in the cities than elsewhere we too are frustrated by the current politics and are fed up with being insulted and being viewed and not real Americans. Come talk to us.
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@Rachel What do you think about Candidate Gabbard? Didn't she tour in those areas? I agree the sensible middle is getting lost in the shrill voices in the Democratic party.
@Rachel: I understand, and we welcome your vote. However, the cities you cite are the blue islands in red seas. In Indiana, we have the counties bordering Chicago, Indianapolis, and Bloomington v. the rest of the state. If we get all the voters in those towns to vote, we'd still need to narrow the margin in the rest of the state to win. The same could be said for Wisconsin, where Democrats have Madison and Milwaukee. The state actively suppresses votes in Milwaukee Co. Waukesha Co., in Paul Ryan's district, has perfected election fraud well beyond what Chicago ever did. We in greater Chicago went to SE Wisconsin and NW Indiana to campaign in each ofthe past three presidential elections. We came and talked and listened to you. BTW, we don't think you're especially elite because you work in offices. Who does? The Scott Walkers and Mike Pences of the world, not the Democrats. Help us out. Get your neighbors registered and to the polls. Call the states out when they practice voter suppression.
2
You know who he's NOT voting for?
A candidate who backs unrestricted illegal immigration and a blurring of America's borders, free health care for illegal immigrants, a ruinously expensive "Green New Deal" that'll cost jobs in his region, loss of his health care coverage in a "Medicare For All" scheme, a billion-dollar bail out of other people's college kids after he struggled to put his through, and a $1.5 trillion package of reparations for the great-great grandchildren of enslaved people, some of whom got slots in colleges and jobs he couldn't get because of decades of Affirmative Action based on race.
Reporters love these kinds of stories, when the alternative to Trump is "anybody." Once it is "Somebody," and she embraces a radical transformation of American economics and culture, the decision will look a lot different.
8
What this article, and most of the media, avoids is the real reason Trump won in 2016. Voters are fed up with the establishments of BOTH parties. He mowed down the Republicans in their primary not because he was so great but because the others were awful choices. He beat Hillary because she beat herself. Many of us who held our noses and voted for him were choosing less of evils. We did not expect to like him! We did not expect him to be "presidential". We voted for Trump only to avoid something worse. Are we happy with him? NO! Give us someone better to vote for and he will lose, so far we're not seeing that person.
BOTH parties need to stop representing their big money donors and start representing the interests of American workers. BOTH parties need to stop pandering to their chosen minorities and start doing what is right for ALL Americans.
We are sick of seeing jobs shipped away. We are sick of a massive immigration wave. The law of supply and demand does in fact apply to labor. The trade deficit reduces the demand for workers, massive immigration floods the labor market and depresses wages. Bernie once said that open borders benefit people like the Koch brothers and harm the working class. These issues matter, and Trump promised action. (But has not delivered much...)
325 Million people in this country, these are our choices?
7
@Rather not, technology is and has been killing the labor markets since the 1980’s. If you truly believe that Trump has been less destructive to this nation and its people than Clinton would have been, I recognize we will never agree, but at least use facts to buttress your argument. It is 2019, there is no going back to a world where trade isn’t integral. Just ask the U.K.
19
Not “pandering” to minorities is code for maintaining a Eurocentric worldview that silences others and does just enough to induce casual neglect by those of the racial majority. “Pandering” is the first step towards acceptance and internalization of a more inclusive notion of “us.” Enough with the self-serving attacks against “identity politics.” It’s simply a new form of backlash against civil rights movements that has been destructive to all of us.
4
@Rather not Your points are valid and factual. But vote blue despite the candidate. Why? Because no matter what a candidate says on the campaign trail, so much will be amended, decreased etc to death and come out in the middle. All the other hype; socialist, communist, open borders etc is just fear mongering for votes. So a blue candidate, a rebuke to the GOP mafia, will play ball. Another GOP mafioso like trump won't as we have clearly seen.
I would remind everyone that Trump only “won” because of the electoral college and Russian interference/ propaganda influence campaign. He lost the popular vote.
32
Trump also won because millions of Obama voters didn't vote. Blacks, far left liberals, sanctimonious Bernie bros who wouldn't "lower" themselves to vote for Clinton bear as much responsibility.
3
The problem with the electoral college is clearly demonstrated by the glut of these articles (what does Martha from Abandoned Creek, PA think of the election?!) every election cycle. Nobody cares what people in NY or CA (where large swaths of people...actually live?) think because their votes aren't prioritized by a perverse system of electoral incentives. Erie is a shell of a town, and the one time I visited my greatest pleasure was finally leaving to return to New York. That these people are driving our country and our elections is terrifying to say the least.
29
I, like another commenter, am tired of reading about Americans who voted for or support the president. Why can't the Times or Post or other newspaper or magazine write several articles about Americans who are for democracy and truth and the constitution? Who are for legal and safe immigration policies, clean air and water, a fair tax system, fair wages etc. etc?
70-to-75% of Americans do not support the president or the GOP. It is a mystery to me why we only read about the small minority's opinions/feelings on these political matters ad nauseum.
26
@jo
The Electoral College. 90,000 Obama/Trump voters.
1
The more Trump makes liberals and Democrats angry, the more popular he is. Politics in a polarized nation with ingrained problems that people feel like nothing can be done about is a blood sport and sometimes just seeing what he's doing to annoy, sadden, anger the other side is more valuable than what he's done for you.
Trump support can basically be summed up in a bumper sticker I see almost every day here: "Trump 2020: Make Liberals Cry Again"
7
@LR That is no way to run a world power. And all those against liberals can turn in their SSI cards, M-Care cards, go to private schools, breathe filthy air and drink lead water, and drive on dirt roads while the infrastructure crumbles. Oh, and no more farm or auto bailouts either as that is liberal and not capitalism at work.
4
Patience. Trump, emboldened and unhinged, is not done yet. If the senate does not convict him he’ll know he has absolute dictatorial power and well, you ain’t seen nothing yet. He’ll not only cross more lines during the campaign, but barge through lines so obviously wrong and illegal that voters, Republicans and Democrats will vote at unprecedented rates, and not for him. The question is how much more damage can democracy and our standing in the world survive. Not to mention the harm done to innocent people here and abroad.
17
“I’d vote for the Democratic nominee no matter who it is at this point,” he said. “If Mr. Trump gets into another four years, where he’s a lame duck, it’s going to be like adding gasoline to the fire.”
Thank you to Mr. Graham, who although not ostensibly part of any liberal elite, has summed up perfectly “the conflagration” that awaits all of us if Trump is re-elected in 2020.
16
Trump memorably claimed during the 2016 campaign that he could shoot someone on Fifth Avenue "and not lose voters." That's the pickle we're in. Trump is the president the founding fathers feared: someone corrupt at his core, who values money above everything. Such an individual has no clue what it means to be devoted to your country, to be a patriot. Until politicians come to terms with the damage Trump is doing to our constitutional principles, we are in for a hard time (in which Putin winds up the winner). Trump's supporters do not care about the venality, the corruption, the embarrassing lying. They have shown they are willing to tolerate every shameful act just so that they can claim "to be with the winner." The irony is that in the end, the country loses its stature, its place as the symbol of democracy and freedom. Trumpified America is no haven for principle.
8
The whole “I’ll vote democrat no matter who it is”, that’s mind baffling to me. Why would you do that!? Just out of spite?! Seems illogical, irrational and childish to use that type of mind frame. We all know the media hypes up a LOT, the claims of abuse of power by the President are unsubstantiated. I’ll never wrap my head around all the power abuse by Hillary, Obama and other Democrats being “okay” and with evidence of doing so, meanwhile Trumps supposed “abuse of power” is a big issue. Voting for someone to lead this country isn’t a matter of sides. It isn’t a matter of red or blue, it’s a matter of who’s going to do the job the VERY BEST, who’s going to actually HELP this country and the people in it. Trump may not be the most eloquent speaker but he’s done quite a bit of good since he took office. This witch hunt with him has gotten out of hand time after time. Democrats don’t like him so let’s try to find any tiny thing we can to get rid of him for, like the supposed collusion with Russia that never happened. Unsubstantiated claims and false allegations. Americans need to stop thinking about sides, red or blue, dem or republican, and think about the overall picture. I’ve never voted for anyone based off their party affiliation, and I never will.
3
I am a registered independent, and am planning on voting for the Democratic candidate, no matter who it is. Trump is appallingly bad as a president and a human being. Worse yet, the GOP outright refuses to even try to control any of his abuses. Every one of the top five Democratic candidates is demonstrably less bad, and I will not waste my vote on a third party candidate with no chance of winning the election. My choice has little to do with voting for a party, but everything to do with doing what I can, in my limited power, to ensure we will not have 4 more years of the Trump nightmare. Furthermore, as long as the GOP continues its partisan war within our government, I will not vote for a Republican candidate, for any office. They have shown their complete dedication to party over country, and in the interest of not supporting partisanship, I will not vote for them. I assume there are Republicans who wish to participate in government in a more noble fashion, and I suggest they either fix their party, or form a new one without the scorched earth, destroy everything, anti compromise ideals of the current one.
9
@Paris Witch hunt? You mean the legal requirements of a the House when presented with a complaint by the trump appointed DNI? Economy; slowed growth and slowing, Soaring debt which can't be paid by a soaring deficit. Allies cringing in shame for him and his failed policies abroad. Ivanka cashing in on her Chinese goods with inflated prices because of Daddy's tariffs? How can you not vote blue?
4
Trump is a danger to me, my family, our country, and the world at large. I would honestly vote for an earthworm before I would ever cast my vote for Trump.
And notice to the GOP: I've always been registered Independent but I've voted Republican most often. At this point I view the average earthworm as more worthy than virtually every elected member of the craven, sickening, anti-American Republican Party-before-country. The worm certainly has more backbone.
2
I can't understand how many of these people praise trump for his "handling of the economy." He has mortgaged their children and grandchildren't future by giving trillions to the super wealthy. His trade wars, his ignorance of how the economy works, his lies about who pays the tariffs, and his impulsive, seat-of-the-pants, methods there have been nothing short of reckless. Someone has taken an ax to the beams but the floor has not caved in just yet.
And that's not even addressing so many other aspects of his "leadership" and personality--the environment, foreign policy, corruption, health care, narcissism, easily verifiable lies, encouragement of white supremacy, inhumane treatments of immigrants, Islamophobia, LGBTQ rights, etc.
23
Clinton apparently was such a detestable choice for many that an even more abhorrent choice got their vote. Sad to think these voters did not investigate their second choice better. They helped turn this nation upside down. I voted for Clinton even though she was not a favorite. I also knew she would not be as corrupt as Trump(who could be?) and the ship would not sink. We would not be overrun with evangelicals who want to dissolve the wall between church and State. 2020 will reverse the capsizing of our government as it now stands. Any Democrat is better than our current resident of the WH.
18
This article by Trip Gabriel, combined with Friday's from Monica Potts from Clinton, Arkansas, capture the essence of failed rust-belt cities and the rural small-towns with regard to their citizenry. I realize these two writers and editors at the NYTimes can only offer a particular selection of residents' comments from both communities. And whether that selection is intentionally skewed one direction or another, from where I sit in west central Ohio (which perfectly mimics both articles' settings), that balance sadly still favors Trump winning next year. That imbalance is terribly, terribly carried by a poorly educated majority. And I would hope the progressively-skewed Millennial generation would be the voting groundswell that they could be. But I frankly am not confident they will bother voting in sufficient numbers.
8
I find it interesting that people who have actual management responsibilities are the ones noticing how incompetent Trump is as a businessman and manager of the economy. Had they done some minimal investigation prior to voting? They would have seen that in his entire life of failures.
15
These people are who the Founding Fathers feared giving the vote to most when crafting the Constitution.
6
I live 75 miles south of Erie in western PA. My congressman lives in Erie and is a total all in supporter of Trump. The county I live in, Mercer, is overwhelmingly Republican, and I seriously doubt it will swing to the Democrats next year. In 2016, my sister in law (who lives in Massachusetts) came to visit in October and as she got out of her car said to me, what's with all the Trump signs??!!! Welcome to my world! (We had the only HRC sign on the street).
Despite everything I read about the existence of voters who went for Obama and Trump, I've just never been able to understand how that is possible. Each of them represents a completely different way of looking at the world. Are American voters really that ignorant that they can't tell the difference between the views? Do none of these Obama/Trump voters have any convictions? I understand that people vote on "kitchen table" issues but I'll never be able to see how they can be so casual about it.
14
@Marylouise I agree. Independent and swing voters are often portrayed (and in my experience think of themselves) as independent thinkers and discerning voters who are not swayed by labels. But they usually strike me as underinformed and lacking in core principles - and tending toward the "both sides" view which I believe is usually a cop out.
2
The entirety of my family lives in northwest Indiana, and voted for Trump in the last election. In light of recent events, I would love to have a conversation with them about their perspective on next year, and try to convince them to go a different direction. I would like to think there’s enough clearly negative information regarding the entirety of the current administration to convince any voter to go for a different party or candidate, but—at the same time—I wouldn’t be surprised if they remained with the status quo. Frustrating.
7
This article kind of makes it sound like 2016 was about Trump vs. Obama. I’m pretty sure Trump ran against a different candidate who wasn’t nearly as popular as Obama had been. This article would be more relevant if there had been more comparison of voters’ attitudes between Trump and Clinton in 2016. 2020 will be still a different candidate offering a different choice.
4
It's interesting that some people can "take a chance" on someone like Trump, with the implicit understanding that the blowback won't affect them too much. What a nice privilege to have. I don't have that. People I'm related to don't have that. People I love don't have that. In fact, I'm waiting on the Supreme Court, two Justices of which were installed by Trump, to determine whether I have equality under the law, or can be fired from my job due to my orientation. When someone "takes a chance" what they really mean is "I don't care, I'll be fine either way."
How nice for them.
462
@Dominic
Thank you. And under-insured people or people with grave illnesses that cost a lot of money don't have the privilege either. Nor do the children taken away from their parents. Nor do young people, who will very likely live with some really nasty effects of climate change.
72
@Dominic very well stated! Voting for leaders of our country ought not be similar to the dart-balloon toss at a carnival, for goodness sake!
I agree w/ @Dominic: Take a chance at a carnival ring toss to win the big stuffed bear but PLEASE be an informed, responsible voter when choosing our country’s leaders!
10
@Dominic
They couldn't vote for the female.
It's misogyny. Pure and simple.
8
Here is 2 cents worth of commentary from a rural Pa voter in a swing district. Presidents in both parties take to much credit for a strong economy and run from any accountability when it's weak. Global shocks, Fed policy and Wall Street sentiment usually rule the day. Presidents do have had extraordinary issues on their watch they can be proud of for their steadfastness (FDR, Obama) given the circumstances but some shot themselves in the foot and the rest of us in the head (Trump, Bush 43). Being surrounded by farmland one thing's for sure: we rural swing state voters can smell manure a mile away. Trump's going down in 2020.
386
You are absolutely correct.
16
@Randy From your lips to G-ds ears.
18
@Randy: Lordy, Lordy, I hope you’re right.
4
I'll be honest— I rolled my eyes at this article. The amount of time and energy that the media spends on the vacillations of a small minority of voters is getting ridiculous. I understand that OH, PA, MI were pivotal states, etc., but I'm not really sure what this myopic focus on the Obama-Trump voter actually accomplishes.
95
@Catherine Fewer than 80,000 votes in swing states gave Trump the electoral votes to win the presidency. That's what the focus on these voters is about.
23
@Catherine: I find it interesting in to see how voters in swing districts are thinking. Many of them have views that are different from mine, and they're virtually certain to play a larger role in determining the outcome of the election than I am. The Obama-Trump voters in particular have shown that they are willing to change their vote and I'm really hoping that they will do that again. I would like to have a better understanding of what factors may encourage them to do so.
15
Perhaps your confusion stems from your not understanding how our elections are won. There are two core groups of Democrats and Republicans who never stray from their party. And then there is that small group of vacillators that you dismiss. They are the only ones to make or break a candidate. This is why generally a more ideological candidate will frighten these folks into voting for someone else. This is the concern of moderate Democrats.
16
When we have a nominee, I will be happy to come to Erie to convince those Trump voters.
I would have been happy in 2016 to do the same but Hillary’s young campaign people had me and many others canvassing here in Philadelphia.
And look what we got.
God help us all if this happens again but it we’ll be on us if it does.
44
I live 90 miles from Erie in Western Pa. Trump remains popular here among the faithful. This is despite the fact nothing he has done has helped them. His rants and raves energize them, and it is confounding and amusing,
The assault on decency, the insults and the lies make no difference The Ukraine affair is not even seen as illegal or a problem. And yet the water is muddier, the air dirtier, the local economy is shaky, the future is still bleak here in Appalachia. Trump conned the locals, and they just don't get it.
642
@Art Seaman I think that Trump may be the first to go bankrupt while underestimating the intelligence of the American public ... but only because he is such a lousy businessman and incompetent leader to begin with.
18
That’s the thing that I find most amazing: that people simply do not see the situation for what it is. Has anything really improved for them under this administration?
53
@Art Seaman
They are in agony and feel powerless. They want to tear down the system that abandoned them. Consequences be damned. Trump gave them a lever long enough to move the world.
City-dwelling elites are engaging in the same counterproductive righteous indignation when they scream that Trump country is irredeemable and deserves to crumble.
9
the votes for trump in 2016 were an illusion. the illusion being that trump was an actual, A. adult B. intelligent. C honest. all of which proved to be false. trump has brought America to the brink of irrelavancy world wide. don't let the stock market fool anybody, it is as much a paper jack in the box as trump is. if you vote for this man in 2020 then you need to explain that to your grand children.
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@Johnson
Do you really think anyone seriously believed trump was intelligent or honest? My God, man, look at his rallies--he free-associated hateful screeds, he claimed to be the smartest man ever, he encouraged violence against people there he didn't like, he dissed honored war heroes, and through his life he treated women like disposable tissues to be used and tossed. What a pig. And he is no different now. Some people were fooled into thinking he was rich, but that was just another lie.
I used to be proud of being an American because of the goodness and greatness of our people. That these people could elect such a ridiculous man has completely undermined my faith in the goodness and greatness of my country. I'd rather believe that people were desperately seeking help in a bad economy, but even that is so stupid, it reflects badly on all of us.
12
He's "a really conservative family guy,” who sent four children to Catholic schools. He voted for Trump. Might again. I don't understand how people can compartmentalize their values like this.
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@Glenn Because they do not practice what is preached at them on Sunday.
Trump is completely antithetical to catholic teaching, that guy who is so catholic should ask the Pope. The Pope has said Catholics should not vote one issue. And trump is immoral.
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@Glenn He's a "family guy" who has no sense of what Trump has done and is doing to his children's' futures. That's not a family guy. That's a guy who hasn't been paying attention.
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@Glenn "Really conservative family guy" as in traditional authoritative gender roles. That's the only bit that arguably aligns with Trump.
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This kind of anecdotal investigation is no good.
A better tack would be to ask the question, how did Obama win Indiana in 08?
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@John David Kromkowski
Oh, contraire!
This kind of investigation provides insights into how people are thinking, on the ground. The comment about how confusing all this news about the Trump Administration is to folks in the store gives us some insights into how people in their everyday lives might make certain voting decisions.
And, the woman who questioned the sources of the "lie list," indicates that folks are concluding without questioning sources.
I find these insights very interesting.
3
What are the political values of folks who voted for Obama, then Trump? How do they make their decisions? T'is a mystery to me!
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@Miss Anne Thrope Most people vote their pocket books. This should be no surprise, they thought a self proclaimed successful NY business man would know what to do. They gave him benefit of the doubt, which a lot of them won't do again.
A lot of people saw right through him that he is a con man, but not all.
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@Miss Anne Thrope
Anti-corporate children of union factory workers.
H Clinton was clearly a corporate puppet.
@Miss Ann Thrope
Hmmm. Let’s see. Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton, and Donald Trump. One of these things is not like the other. Gee, I wonder what it could be.
I am really getting tired of these ill-informed or just plain wrong voters in these “swing states” overriding the majority opinion of the rest of us in the United States. The Donald lost the popular vote by three million yet befouls the office of the Presidency due to a flawed and foreign manipulated system. One person, one vote! The Electoral college has to go.
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@HKS - Nope, the EC can stay. The House of Representatives just needs to be expanded to re-establish proportional representation. Because the apportionment of Electoral College votes is a mirror of Congressional representation, this simple action would fix the Electoral College without any changes to the Constitution. The EC would once again more closely represent population. Unfortunately this easy fix isn't well known because it can’t fit on a bumper sticker.
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@HKS
Getting rid of the electoral college requires a constitutional amendment. And direct democracy introduces its own injustices, unless we redraw state borders every four years to keep population roughly equal in every state.
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@Jim I disagree. Let's have mandatory voting. Let's have mandatory ranked-choice voting. Both of those would undercut the big money on the edges and bring everyone closer to the center.
The Electoral College was a fix to solve a problem, now we have another problem
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It's nice to see that some Trump voters are finally able to see how he has betrayed the chance voters gave him. It is too bad there are still many blind Trump acolytes who refuse to face reality even in the face of thousands of proven lies Trump has told. Unless they are one of the 4% richest Americans who Trump lowered taxes on, they are worse off than they were three years ago.
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I’m guessing there’s a lot of “buyer’s remorse” out there among moderates who were swept up in the MAGA hysteria.
Let’s hope enough of them have come to their senses.
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I am not clear. Trump is anti-abortion, intent on dismantling environmental protections, has given tax breaks to the rich, opened our protected lands and vulnerable coastlines to oil and gas drilling, has hired corrupt and incompetent cabinet members, given Wayne Pierre and other lunatics access to the White House, and the list goes on. And you say you are willing NOW to give the Democrats a chance? Wow. I am not understanding of where people stand, unless it's a case of complete myopia. From where I stand there I could throw a pebble any would vote for the random person it bounced off of and that person could do a better job.
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I live in an area of Pennsylvania where people voted for Herr Trump, or any other GOP candidate for one reason and one reason only, they are deathly afraid any Democrat will take away their guns. Many of my neighbors disliked Herr Trump and thought he was not capable of doing the job, but they wanted to keep their guns more.
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@Ellwood Nonnemacher Even after eight years of Republicans telling them that Obama was coming for their guns - it is amazing how that lie works year after year.
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@Ellwood Nonnemacher I am always astounded by this kind of reasoning. I have owned and shot guns for forty-three years. Currently I go shoot a .22 rifle every Saturday and have done so for fifteen years No government agency has ever wanted my guns and likely never will. In 1976 when I bought my first gun, there were background checks by the state Bureau of Investigation. No big deal, nobody minded back then. Nothing bad happened. The silly gun conspiracies from the NRA never come true. I would never base my vote on gun issues. I have never understood those who do.
Who cares about rural white voters over 60? We know most of them will vote Republican. Their world view is based on an America that hasn’t existed in 20 years.
They can’t even imagine how depraved Trump is, mainly because of their insulated upbringing.
How about an article about voters aged 25-40? Both rural and urban/suburban.
Thanks
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@Jake
We should care because
1. They are part of our country;
2. The individuals in that demographic may be able to vote in many future elections; and
3. The more information you have the better.
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@Jake please stop lumping rural white voters over 60 into such a dismal category! You may be surprised to learn its the “grey heads” who consistently show up at Indivisible & Swing Left marches & events in my area. Every once in a while, we see a millennial come to help, and heaven forbid a teenager should give up a Saturday morning to protest or march...at least in my rural area. So stop with the disparaging remarks!
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@Jake I am insulted. I am 76. I have not voted for a Republican since Newt Gingrich's contract for America. Although us old duffers are a minority, there are many of us who can't believe that the millennials and those under 60 can't get off their duffs to vote. They certainly have a lot to lose!
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Open borders and immigration seem to be driving some of the people to Trump.
The irony is that illegal immigration has gotten much worse under Trump, yet he’s done nothing to combat it except reconstruct a slatted fence along already fenced borders. So far this year there have been 926,000 (year isn’t done yet) border apprehensions, yet no appreciable increase in border patrol officers to deal with the increase. He has literally created a crisis when in 2017 there were only 415k border apprehensions.
But the people in western PA won’t hear about this, cause there’s no one there to report it. All they have are local papers and right wing talk radio.
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@SXM
I despise Trump. But some facts:
Most illegal entrants actually overstay their visas ... they arrive legally, through our ports of entry. They aren't desperate, or illiterate, just trying to get the bigger paycheck that working in the US provides. They wouldn't be able to so easily hide in plain sight if E-verify had teeth (it doesn't because Republicans like their cheap labor, and Democrats like the color of their children's skin.)
The flood of people at the border are refugees. It's more or less a coincidence that Trump's presidency coincides with socioeconomic trauma in Central America.
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@SXM, amazingly, I read this article and I live in Erie. This is usually a quite blue community with three colleges/universities. We have access to public radio, good papers, all the mod cons. Rural areas are red - but that is true in all states. Be careful swinging the broad brush.
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@SXM They must have cable in western PA or they couldn’t watch Fox. There are other channels. This is willful ignorance.
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To the people who don't think that asking a foreign government to investigate a political rival is impeachable, I say that you should be concerned about the 2020 election being free of foreign influence. Yet we've gone from "witch hunt/no collusion" to "no big deal if he asks for help." What's next, "it's OK because winning at any cost is worth it?" (Hint: it's not worth it.)
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I don’t think trump has much to worry about. When his base didn’t get riled up about the giant tax gift to the rich or the numerous attempts to destroy the small healthcare improvements, that told trump all he needed to know.
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@Nancy He can't win with only his base. They are a lost cause.
How can the US be a great nation if voters think in such short-sighted ways? Willing to “take a chance” on a reality TV star with obvious personal flaws and no government experience? The economy is good for me right now so blatant and unapologetic abuses of power don’t matter? And of course there are those who care about tax cuts above all else. What about honor, integrity, the moral authority the office of President deserves and that should project to the country and the world? What about the rule of law which has been the foundation of our stability, and therefore, long term, our greatness?
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@Svrwmrs If either party had run a candidate who was better, we would not have a President Trump. He was the least of evils, and it is shaping up to be that kind of a contest in 2020. He's an idiot in many ways, but the alternatives aren't looking so great either.
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@Rather not There was no excuse for voting for a reality tv star with NO government experience and a bunch of racist garbage as policy. None.
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@Rather not Both parties ran better candidates. A plurality of GOP primary voters just didn't see what was obvious.
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I voted for Hillary, and contributed to her campaign fund. I was shocked when she lost.
But contrary to the common narrative, I got over it, and I’m not trying for a do-over of 2016.
With an open mind, I started to agree with a few of Trump’s general policies.
But he has really gone off the rails this time. Maybe I’m finally seeing him for who he is, but in the last few days I have watched a crackpot having psychotic episodes.
Any Democrat for me in 2020.
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@David G. I appreciate your support of Hilary Clinton but I'm puzzled. Did you not see Trump's cruel abusive treatment of the disabled, of women, of people of color, of children, of the weak and vulnerable? Did it really take til now to see his 'off the rails' psychosis and his narcissistic personality that has no 'general policies' except those that benefit him?
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I wouldn’t vote for McCaine and I protested Vietnam name non stop but to call him a traitor to his country bodies the mind. And in favor of a very rich boy who dodged the draft, not for reasons of belief, but because he thought he was too important to be a soldier. One heartening piece of this article is how many voted for Obama. I don’t see a lot of sophisticated political thought but they didn’t let race matter. I say not sophisticated for those who can’t see that the republicans, when they had both houses, did nothing about health care, schools, infrastructure, etc.
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@Sean Casey junior
They didn’t let race matter, because their misogynistic tendencies were way stronger.
1
The economy is not strong and that will probably be more apparent a year from now, assuming he is still in office. With another whistleblower coming forward at the CIA and a different one at the IRS it’s starting to unravel, as it always does for him. We could see a tsunami of complaints and a giant race for the exists from the WH.
No one who is around Trump can stand him. Even not too bright Rick Perry knows when he is being thrown under the bus. Pence is being pushed by Trump like a sacrificial lamb. When a man is only for himself, loyalty goes out the window. They won’t fall on their swords for him.
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We went to a large fair on Saturday in a very upscale area of eastern Pennsylvania.
I was amazed trying to find parking with all the expensive cars in the lots.
To me the crowd looked " college educated white suburban".
You know the kind we are told , hate Trump.
Well there was a Trump 2020 booth there and the folks standing around were 4 or 5 deep even causing passers by to go around the back to get thorough.
I stopped to watch and listen.
Zero confrontation.
All smiles and confidence, there were men and the ladies with their to be expected blond hair and expensive leather handbags.
Multiple happy millennials, strollers , designer dogs , and kids.
Well there goes poooof to what the media is telling us.
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@Joe Paper
Yes this is the lie that the democrats keep passing off at their own demise.
It's not all poor uneducated racist voters that are behind trump.
Also many relatively wealthy voters that are not the 1% that are concerned about the proposals that Democrats are putting forth, because they know that warren, sanders, AOC, and the other far left are coming for their money.
And although they don;t want children in cages, they don;t want unlimited immigration.
Now many of them may not display it as openly as they did in this particular area, because they don't want their more liberal friends to know, but they are out there is many suburban areas, and hiding out in certain wealthy areas of CA and the upper east side of NYC.
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@Joe Paper, That is interesting. Still Pennsylvania is a swing state. It is understandable political reporters are interested in figuring it out right now. Perhaps only certain type of voters would go on the record of a national newspaper to say how they are going to vote. The ballots are secret for a reason.
@marie , Good for you as you are brave!
I have two fears.
The first is that these folks will vote for Trump after all.
The second is that they’ll stay home on election day, having given up altogether. I think a lot of independents and conservative voters and perhaps disappointed Bernie and Biden voters will stay home.
Just another way that Trump is destroying our democracy.
5
I am writing this at our summer home 25 miles south of Erie,PA. We have witnessed an astonishing and delightful renaissance in the City of Erie over the last 10 years. You really should come and visit and see it, but I give away the best kept secret in PA. Business growth is steadily improving culturally and especially recreationally. However, in surrounding rural Erie County it is TRUMP country, PERIOD. There is a plethora of rebel flags fluttering from pickup trucks and motorcycles on weekend afternoons and massive red white and blue Trunp Pence signs on barns and beside French Creek kayak access areas. It is beautiful here in the autumn.
Noticed the soybeans are ripening in the huge flat brown farm fields ---unharvested as yet?
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@Dave Sproat Soybeans are great, but there is a bit of a problem with getting them all to market properly. Barges full of soy were hung up during the flooding, setting back shipping dates worldwide. That and the flooded fields unable to plant, thru much of the Midwest and middle America, as well as the amount lost due to flooding etc.
Plus Trump Tariffs on such, well, it may not be the greatest year for soybeans and the farmers may well have to plow them under again. I, for one, would not touch soybean futures with a dime right now.
With that said, there may be more Anti-Trumpers than you think, they are just not as inclined towards being loud, brash and showing proof of one's low IQ/Political Conscience Score. They are staying quiet, watching the data, and will make Educated Choices, not automatic party line voting of R's, even with the data saying the R's are tanking.
Sad.
2
One thing Democrats have to do better in 2020 is reach out to rural voters. So far they haven’t done a very good job of that. The perception is that Democrats are ignoring issues here in “flyover” country and are spending too much time on social issues. The Democrats need to get a candidate locked down soon and start getting a cohesive message out.
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@D Jones Democrats cannot reach out to rural voters, because they are not interested in policy. All the social policies that are being proposed by the Democratic candidates, like universal health care, environmental protection, more progressive tax policy, help with higher education etc. would help rural voters. Instead, they have fixated on their dislike of “elites” which they equate with Democrats, and no amount of reasoned discourse will be able to change that.
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@D Jones
I'd rather reach out to urban voters in purple states, especially WI, NC, GA, PA and MI.
I'm done with rural voters, who already have a disproportionate voice in federal elections, and who already get overly subsidized by the rest of us.
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@D Jones I’ve been increasingly disappointed in the Democratic Party for several years. If they don’t get their act together soon, I see no hope for the next election.
11
“Who are they to say what’s coming out of his mouth is wrong?”
Ms. Daniels, may I respectfully suggest that as an adult having your own moral and ethical agency, that you indeed don’t need to rely on the media to interpret Trump’s behavior. Rather, if you are willing to open your own ears, eyes, and mind to what Trump himself says and does, you ought to be able to discern this for yourself.
Or put another way, if Trump was your long time neighbor and “the media” told you that he was loving, compassionate, mature, responsible, humble, forgiving, gracious, and highly ethical, would you believe them or own own two eyes?
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I couldn’t believe what I read Ms. Daniel say about John McCain! I lived in Arizona for 20 years and was never a big fan. But to say he was a traitor is just false. Ms. Daniel needs to read more books and forget about the media.
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@Paul Andiamo
Great insights on voters. Democrats have work to do.
I fear Democratic ramblings are so boring, to many voters.
I think they need simpler, repetitive messages that CLICK.
I think they need DRAMA, and a DREAM for the future.
Trump destroys democracy, and he gets media dominance.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
I suggest Democrats have campaign contests for ideas.
For example, I suggest the use of the "Democracy" song.
Leonard Cohen sang, "Democracy is coming to the USA".
I have repeatedly suggested the song to NY Times writers.
As far as I know, they have not taken me up on this idea.
"Democracy is coming to the USA"
-------------------------------------------
10
@Paul Andiamo I think she meant factually wrong, not morally wrong. But... no one was wrong about Russia. Only if you limit yourselves to the briefest of headlines and Fox News could you walk away with that conclusion. I hope she reads the Mueller Report.
13
the last comment rings most universal to me - it is all going to be about the voter turn out. that is one reason the voter suppression efforts around the country are so dangerous.
392
@Doug k And it is another reason why the incredible amount and energy of volunteers registering voters and canvasing for Democratic candidates that brought us the House in 2018 will bring us all three branches in 2020. So if you can Doug get out there and work like the future of your family depends on it because it does.
28
@Doug k U are so correct. It's motivating those not registered to do so, and if registered, to VOTE. It must be an extremely high turnout to avoid a close election, whereby DJT and the GOP will claim "millions of illegals," "registered voters who shouldn't be registered," "criminals who should still be in jail voted," etc. and therefore the election is fraudulent and needs to null and void, with their lawyers going to the SCOTUS and by a 5-4 vote, we get DJT in again for 4 years, to be followed by the same excuse in 2024, and thereafter. Hence, losing the nation we all love, replaced by an autocratic govt, whereby, leaving for Canada will become a necessity to retain your sanity. Not a very pretty picture.
5
Took a chance on someone who was clearly going to be terrible. At some point I am curious when these people start taking responsibility for their own lives. Clearly bad judgment is a plague amongst them.
510
@Sm Well said....and It boggles the mind, doesn't it?
8
@Sm,
If I could pass along some insights: I was born and raised in western PA and still visit there often. I myself headed out to elite universities and live outside a major city, so I get to see life from many sides. You are right, these people took a chance, but please don't judge them harshly. The media in this area has been controlled by Heritage Foundation types (Scaife family et al.) for decades, and people get a very biased view in most newspapers. Most of them have never run up against a cunning huckster or a powerful person with a personality disorder, so for them, it wasn't obvious that Trump would be terrible. Finally, the issue of selling out jobs overseas is massively painful for them, and both parties have to take responsibility, along with many economists, for not taking into account the societal costs of globalization, NAFTA, etc. When people are desperate, they are more vulnerable to snake oil salesman. I personally know a number of Trump voters who are disgusted, but still are unsure that Democrats "get it" about middle class job creation.
3
@original
How was it not possible to see how bad Trump would be? He was all over the news spewing hate and still they voted for him. You don't have to be highly educated to realize he was never a decent human being.
As for the jobs that went overseas...that is a corporate decision and ruled by corporate greed. So why aren't they angry that the Republicans and Trump? They gave the bulk of the tax cuts to the corporations and MORE jobs were lost...No, most of us are tired of hearing that they had reasons.
4
I'm guessing that it's going to be Elizabeth Warren for the democrats in 2020. If so, she'll have to convince these small business people that they'll be okay under her proposed wealth tax. The chambers of commerce will have their marching orders from those billionaires behind fossil fuel and military/industrial lobbies.
But we have another year in which to educate people about combatting global warming by clean energy and reining in corporate greed for the good of us all. It will require a changing of financial priorities to accomodate the greater good, not just here but all over the world. Hopefully we can get this message out while still fulfilling our constitutional duty to impeach this president before he does any more damage to our laws and wellbeing.
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@betty durso
I don’t think most small business owners are billionaires.
8
@betty durso Her proposed wealth tax only kicks in on income over $50 million annually. They'll be fine.
21
She’ll have an easy case to make if words have meaning. If every small business owner worth over $50 million votes against her, she’ll win in a landslide.
17
What Democrats really need to do is ask voters to think back to 2008. Things were terrible. And then forward to 2016. Things were a lot better and improving. Unemployment had dropped a lot. The auto industry was bailed out and thriving again. Health care was being provided to more and more people. Trump came along and told voters how terrible things were and that he, Trump, would make things so much better. He found a new scapegoat in immigrants and people bought into the narrative. But now manufacturing is in a recession. All that wealth provided to the rich and corporations has NOT been shared. More people are losing health care. Drug prices continue to rise. Immigrants have been reduced. And it doesn't take a genius to realize that immigrants are not the cause of the recession in farming and manufacturing. And he keeps telling you all these other countries are paying for things you can see with your own eyes you are, in fact, paying for. And where is Trump? Off on a wild goose chase looking for dirt that will prevent his loss in 2020. Not doing things for Americans that will ensure his reelection. Oh I am sure he will find something for you to look at. So you don't have to see all the soybeans rotting in the silos. But realize cleaning up his mess will have to be paid for. Not by China or Mexico but by Americans. Sorry to deliver the bad news. It didn't have to be this way.
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@Walking Man :
Excellent review and comparison of past & current administration.
33
@Walking Man And yet slightly more than half of them approve of Trump's handling of the economy.
Translation: He hasn't quite finished destroying what Obama patiently built.
8
Trump won by razor-thin majorities in a handful of swing states. To turn those around, Democrats just need to, as Pelosi stated, “walk and chew gum.” Sure, display Trump’s corruption via investigations. But don’t forget what won the House two years ago: display the GOP’s failure to help all American citizens, particularly the middle and lower class who continue to wait for the promised infrastructure plans, improved health insurance, and education.
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@Concerned Citizen Obama bailed out the banks then allowed them their bonuses. Those bankers should have been jailed for their crimes.
Obama did ZERO to bring jobs back, he simply wrote off much of this country. The trade deficit is enriching a few and pushing many American in to poverty.
On immigration, Obama was so concerned about building a permanent Latino voting block that he again threw American workers in the trash. The law of supply and demand does apply to labor. If you listen to the Democrat's previous positions of this, you see common sense. Now you see a full scale pander to illegal aliens, their supporters and employers.
The GOP NEVER cared about the working class, Trump "promised" to change that but has not delivered much. The Democrats have simply abandoned the working class.
7
@Hey Now
And concentrate on producing turnout, particularly among African American males in Midwest and Southern urban areas (Philly, Pittsburgh, Detroit, Milwaukee, Jacksonville, Tampa, Charlotte, Atlanta, Macon) and among younger voters everywhere.
And be ready to combat the social media disinformation campaign that will be designed, along with outright voter suppression tactics, to keep them away.
11
@Concerned Citizen I don't know, ask McConnell who did everything in his power to blunt anything Obama put in motion to improve things for America.
18
“I’d vote for the Democratic nominee no matter who it is at this point,”
Thank you Mr. Graham, we need every vote we can to right this ship again.
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@cherrylog754
Thank God someone has common sense, right?
5
Democrats need to remind voters that the 2020 Trump budget cuts Social Security and Medicare. Trump promised not to touch them.
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@Daniel F. Solomon it doesn’t matter though since they won’t believe you. Trump is the ultimate authority on everything they believe so if he says he’s not cutting it even though he is, they will believe he isn’t.
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@Daniel F. Solomon. Add to that the data set forth in David Leonhardt’s column today confirming that, with Donald Trump’s tax cuts, the richest in America are now paying less in tax than the working class Americans who believed Trump would help them.
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@Daniel F. Solomon
"in Mr. Morris’s latest survey of Erie County," PA . . . "Approval of Mr. Trump overall is dismal at 38 percent, but 52 percent approve of the way he’s handling the economy."
Someone also needs to inform these people that the way trump is handling the economy is to give the oligarchs a trillion dollar tax cut and nothing to them.
26
I have the same senitment. After voting twice for President Obama, I just couldn't vote for the Democratic Party's nominee in 2016.
The reason for my choice was that I could not accept another political family coronation in an attempt to create a royal political dynasty out of our great republic.
We've had enough of family line presidents dating back centuries!
The Republican presidential candidate was getting my vote back in 2016. I just hoped it wouldn't have been Mr. Trump.
I long for the day when I will be motivated to vote FOR someone, not AGAINST someone! But that day won't come in 2020.
Once again, I will be voting against the incumbent, regardless of who the Democrats nominate as their presidential candidate.
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@DB
Understood. Turn-out was depressed in 2016 bc many felt as you did about the unenthusiastic choice. I swallowed hard to vote for another Clinton, especially after two Bushes and three wars between them.
Obama offered hope. I am hoping that young people wake up and turn out, for they have the most to lose if the ruling class grabs more of the future from them.
210
@RB , yes. I understood too. You didn't like the interior decor so you set the house on fire. Those wounded and devastated thank you.
202
@DB
This is an interesting comment. But what I always wonder in such cases is how they would answer the question: given what you know now, would you have still voted for Trump?
45