He is owed justice but he will never get it. Powerful leaders have eliminated thorns in their sides for thousands of years free from retribution. Jesus was but one example. For more recent examples where the victims are still alive (maybe) check out the Siberian gulags, China's concentration camps for Uighurs, Venezuela's prisons for Maduro opponents, etc., and don't even bring up North Korea's concentration/execution camps.
2
Jeff Bezos, owner of the Post and one of the richest people in the world, was at the ceremony in Istanbul marking the first year of slaughter. I would have thought that more prominent journalists show up.
It would not bring Jamal back but at least it would have made it clear to Saudi and others around the world that it is going to stick to them for a long time...
15
I agree with this opinion completely!! MBS is a monster!!
2
We all are in such a real and fabricated news maelstrom that fatigue is easy and we go amnestic to major newsevents quickly. If we are to continue to press for justice in Jamal Khashoggi's murder,to press to find out who is on trial/what are the charges/ why this blackout of information) we must hold Khashoggi's murder to the light, and take it to deeply heart.
POTUS isn't disturbed by this horrendous event--I fear this may be because he envies MBS's control over his people. Let us hope he is never enabled to emulate that.
1
In terms of whether or not the United States should be allied with Saudi Arabia, let's not forget that 15 of the 19 terrorists involved in the 9/11 attacks were from that country.
4
I guess some people don't understand how important the press really is.
Without it, democracy ends quickly.
One of the major advantages of democracy is that it subjugates powerful people to popular perception. Without it, people in positions of power can get away with almost anything, like killing people they don't like.
One of the main reasons democracy is in peril is because the press has declined over the last several decades. Most of it is worse than nothing.
Some of it remains good. While I don't like this newspaper's blind, globalist goals, the rest of it is of incalculable value to democracy.
7
My former brother in law looked me in the eye and said that you can’t choose your relatives.
I let it go for the sake of my wife but laughed because he forgot that the relationship goes in both directions.
With foreign government relationships you can choose your relatives.
As an American expat I don’t want my government to associate with a criminal government in the Middle East.
18
@Michael Kittle in international affairs, I’m afraid you can’t always pick your friends. Only one country at a time may possess geopolitical “choke points” whose access is vital to the world’s economy and our own strategic interests. That often includes places with unsavory governments: Think Saudi oil, Egypt’s control of the Suez, or Turkey’s control of the Bosporus and Dardanelles. It’s why we often face hard choices in executing foreign policy.
1
Thank you for reminding us all of this tragedy that the President of the United States essentially ignored in favor of a foreign leader.
During these times, it is important to remember that Ukraine is not the only time the President has put other interests before ours.
103
I see no difference between the ISIS murderers who cut the throat of the journalists they captured to use as ransom and MBS and his henchmen who cut the throat of JK. It's the same act. It's heinous, it's savage, it's despicable. The fact that the Trump administration turned a blind eye is an insult to the American public and a slap in the face to human rights activists around the globe
13
October 3, 2019
Editorials one would hope serves results sort as for its cherished values that are honorable and a cause for all readers to offer cheers with justifiable encouragement - thanks to the very worthy struggle of journalist everywhere - all in our prayers for sure - for a better days universal.
JJA, Manhattan, N.Y.
1
Thanks for this thoughtful editorial. You mention 60 Minutes piece on Saudi Crown Prince MBS. Readers should also check out Frontline's just -released powerful investigation of MBS by senior reporter Martin Smith, who visited the Kingdom multiple times over the past year to dig deeper into this disturbing story and the impact of MSB's ascension writ large (https://www.pbs.org/video/crown-prince-saudi-arabia-1jt2ey/). The report also reveals how the Saudis played to Trump's narcissism during his state visit earlier this year. Worth watching for sure.
2
A non US citizen was killed (allegedly) outside the US by people who are not American, why is this our issue. I realize that it hits close to home for those involved in journalism, no matter how partisan, but haven’t we got things to focus on that are closer to home - literally & figuratively?
Mayor Wilhem is a cesspool of corruption, same for Governor (son of Mario), the MTA, the LIRR,not to mention Chancellor Carranzo (sic?).
Please focus on something that means something to the average person, not some great moral cause.
1
It is interesting how the Trump administration is so concerned with corruption in the Ukraine but is obviously fine with the Saudi Prince's brutal murder of a journalist working for an American newspaper.
6
The saga of Jamal Khashoggi and the American media will never cease to amaze me. The media has no problem ignoring the state sanctioned killing of minors (Murtaja Qureiris), women who defended themselves against rape and were executed for it (Tuti Tursilawati), and political dissidents (Nimr al-Nimr) but is outraged when a journalist is killed.
It is very clear the media is not upset about state sanctioned killings or extrajudicial killings (which happens all over the world by numerous countries) but upset almost entirely, because he was a member of their own. How about the NYT show some interest in the innocent Filipino maids killed for standing up to rapists in Saudi or child activists imprisoned? Instead they want us to shed tears for someone who spent most of their career working at Saudi state approved newspapers and afterwards as a consultant to Saudi royals. There are far better people that are more worthy of our tears than Jamal Khashoggi.
1
"Prince Mohammed has made some progress on his social reforms." Great, woman can drive, people can watch movies and go to concerts. Shiny objects. With no political reforms it's all just bread and circuses.
1
Once we've removed the loser and his lackeys from our own office, a new Sane government ought to consider calling the country only "Arabia", cutting all ties to the Saudi royal(ly criminal) family, and recognizing new representatives, perhaps a team of those who were jailed there for that High Crime and Misdemeanor of driving while female.
It also ought to focus not on independence from "foreign" oil, but ALL oil, AND fracked gas, even retrofitting gas cars to electric where feasible; and offering such technology to all nations in the public domain to liberate them from both those thugs and the OPEC and fossil-burner systems in general.
If enough states (in both the UN and US sense) ignore the country's self-styled rulers in favor of non-evil ones, perhaps their horde of thugs and hoard of tanks might not matter anymore. The Saudis have proven time and again in NO way our allies, and if we can cancel Al Franken, we can definitely join the developed world to marginalize enemies who have sponsored and manned terrorist attacks to kill thousands.
Ending their contribution to the climate attack would be a nice bonus too.
3
Reform is coming from a low bar. Criticizing the royal family is still punishable by death. Letting women drive was a PR stunt. There will never be an honest investigation of Khasoggi's death.
If Trump could execute his enemies, and members of the media he would do so. So it's wonderful that we live with a Constitution and not Sharia law.
4
I love the part where MBS takes full responsibility for Khashoggi's death and then, in the same breath, says he had nothing to do with it. The embodiment of Newspeak.
5
Absolutely Jamal Khashoggi deserves justice. The Frontline documentary from Oct 1 is excellent.
It's disgusting, though not surprising how criminal Trump sided with the Prince but so did Jeff Bezos, Tim Cook, Bill Gates and thousands of other billionaires salivating to cash-in during this Saudi Arabia development boom. Even the twenty somethings that live there are praising the Prince because he is giving them their toys to play with.
4
Getting rid of the short-thobed religious police and lifting the ban on women drivers and looking at economic development beyond peak oil are all great goals. But before the killing of Khashoggi, MbS purchased a $550 million yacht for himself on a whim and the (IMO) dubious da Vinci which set him back another $450million. An even billion on toys and bling is hardly the hallmark of an altruistic social reformer. Make no mistake: his actions are like those of his BFF in WDC, designed to improve his own lot and no other. Khashoggi was, unfortunately for him, another obstacle to be navigated.
3
If Mr. Kashoggi’s murder had taken place on the watch of President Obama, the outcome — maintenance of the US-Saudi strategic alliance — would have been the same. The only difference would have been the rhetorical window dressing. To believe otherwise is to misunderstand US national interests in the Near East region. The death of one man, no matter how tragic, will never be enough to alter those interests.
Well, it's amazing how leaders can be charged for war crimes at the Hague but not for the institutional repression of their own citizens through draconian laws. Saudi Arabia is guilty of both such crimes. Its bombing campaign in Yemen since 2015 has killed thousands including children. Its laws towards its own citizens are atrocious. Women are spray painted by the religious police if any part of their legs can be seen. Hands are chopped off for stealing. And public executions are still a thing there.
There is a saying: a man is known by the company he keeps. The US exports more arms to Saudi Arabia than to any other country. Surely that ought to say something...
6
Sometimes it feels like even with this horrid incident, Saudi Arabia is the lesser of the evils in the area. Legitimate question, is there a better ally in the region with the same away in the Muslim world?
The murder of Jamal Khashoggi continues to be a national disgrace, because of the response to it from the Trump regime and from Congress. There is no question any longer about who was responsible for the murder, and who ordered it. The president is leading the nation into one more utter refutation of its core values, party because of his business relations with the people behind the murder; and partly because this is one more way to degrade American values and move the country closer to the appalling level of accepted corruption that the president himself exemplifies and desires, as a self-protective screen from public disgust.
Our representatives have to push back on this, and push back decisively. If they do not, they remain accessories after the fact of Jamal Khashoggi's brutal murder.
The president and his Republican enablers have sullied the honor of our nation and implicated the American government in a brutal crime because the president and members of his immediate family are in business relations with the killer and the killer's own government. We need to stop pretending that the regime that rules us is anything other than organized crime.
5
Absolutely Jamal Khashoggi deserves justice. The Frontline documentary from Oct 1 is excellent.
It's disgusting, though not surprising how criminal Trump sided with the Prince but so did Jeff Bezos, Tim Cook, Bill Gates and thousands of other billionaires salivating to cash-in during this Saudi Arabia development boom. Even the twenty somethings that live there are praising the Prince because he is giving them their toys to play with.
2
Please keep reporting on Khashoggi's murder. It is an important thread in the "weaving" that has, somehow, brought along the Trump presidency and the breakdown of American Democracy. Thank you
4
After the last ten days we have witnessed the facts from this administration be put in the public square at a pace we have not witnessed in years.
Trump has blood on his hands for this murder and other journalist who have been arrested. Trump has embraced dictators and thrown away the support of our allies.
The curtain is coming down on this very sick GOP administration, it is difficult to realize that such corruption exists within the GOP party. It is pathetic that we have such haters of democracy and the people of America.
Hopefully when the curtain does come down we can truly honor these heroic people who Trump with his quest for money allowed this man to be murdered an did nothing.
We will do better when the curtain comes back up, but it is a sad anniversary because we as a nation have gone backward in such a short period of time.
2
Justice can only be served is if we flip The White House and control Congress. Our president is owned not only by Putin but by the Saudi Prince. people thought by electing a so-called billionaire meant he couldn't be bought. Boy were they wrong.
3
Thank you for this. It is incredible that Trump praises a murderer but considering he loves all dictators (an aspiration of his - to be one) it is no surprise. We must not forget!
3
Call me a cynic but Trump is doing what he does with MBS out of personal interests. How much money has he (or Jared, for that matter) borrowed from the Saudis, directly or indirectly? We have a loose cannon doing deals for himself on our dime and at our expense.
Oh what? You think that Ukraine is the only country that Trump tried to shake down for personal gain? Please.
This is the most corrupt president in my lifetime. Nixon was nowhere near this bent. From Obama to Trump was class to crass.
2
If we go to the top secret coded server that trump has hidden his phone calls to the Saudis on I am sure we would find out the answer.
2
Mitch McConnell is the one who has allowed Trump to cozy up to the Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman. Mitch McConnell could stop this travesty and give Mr. Khashoggi justice. But he won't. This is who the finger should really be pointed at.
1
You like to lambast Iran as well (as a devious regime bent on sowing regional chaos).
But in every item you blast Saudi Arabia for (and there are many left off your list), where does Iran stand?
Iran is a paragon of women's rights and freedom in comparison to Saudi Arabia.
Recognize that in all your comments/"reporting" on the two - not just in your outrage at the dismemberment of a single journalist.
2
The only reason MBS has been “opening up” his country is because his cash rain thanks to their oil is “drying up”.
1
Not only is MBS responsible for Khashoggi's gruesome death, but he continues to wage war against the children of Yemen, with thousands starving.
We should stop doing business with Saudi Arabia. Completely. Eventually, heads would roll. MBS among them.
4
The Crown Prince has taken full responsibility for Kashoggi's murder. Unfortunately, this pseudo-admission of guilt in the dismemberment of a human being is as meaningful as the Republicans' "thoughts and prayers" messages after each mass shooting.
2
I'm not backing Saudis neither Erdogan, but seeking the truth. When talking about Sergei Skripal, the Russian officer, who was poisoned with his daughter in UK, rarely you put doubt on the information coming out from there. But when it comes out of Erdogan's ground, the populist terrorist, you have to doubt everything, even the incident was at the Saudi's consulate in Turkey.
Khashoggi was an elite of (anti) Muslim Brother Hood (MBH), shining on its behalf in the American media, selling their propaganda in a cunning way, and more praising Qatar, the fund raiser of terrorism. And when the incident belongs to a MBH member and on the ground of MBH, where Erdogan is a prominent leader of the organization, doubt casts intensely, unlike the UK incident.
Sure, you wonder my point and disagree. I guess Khashoggi is still alive, may be in the basement of Trump in Mar-a-lago, or Erdogan palaces, or fighting with Isis in their think tanks somewhere.
The story is designed to undermine the prince and his economical ambition. Remember the war between Huthies , a branch of MBH, and Saudi in Yemen. The story can be fabricated by a scientific fiction novelist, where you can find many defections. Only one for now, in an audio tape, one of the claimed Saudi killers, after finishing with Khashoggi, said to his fellow:"Tell your boss...so and so". He meant the prince, as explained later. This language is forbidden within the monarch circle. He should say: "Tell his excellency or majesty...".
Just when I was thinking that the press had forgotten Jamal Khashoggi, I was pleased to see your editorial. Soon after Khasoggi's murder and dismemberment, Jared Kushner defended his buddy, Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman, and said that the whole thing would blow over and be forgotten.
It is incumbent upon the free press to see that the macabre
assassination is never forgotten.
3
RIP Khashoggi. You will always be remembered as the one who stood up against Evil and weren’t afraid.
1
Thank you for this.
1
Editorial Board:
And who, pray tell, is the entity that will bring Saudi Arabia to the table of justice?
The United States? Don't make me laugh.
The only country trying to hold Saudi Arabia accountable is Iran, which, apparently, just did a little payback for some school bombings in Yemen that killed a bunch of kids there.
And your journalists appear all set to egg the USA into war with Iran.
Are you suggesting here that the USA should be responsible for a Saudi citizen that is killed on Saudi soil?
C'mon. USA is not responsible for his death and is not responsible for any aspect of his justice.
1
Why is everyone surprised ? This a another example of quid pro quo. I will save your behind, do me a favor...
1
The Khashoggi family has accepted millions for his murder. Yes, the press was chilled but we are now seeing more openings to freedom in Saudi society.
As to suppressing the press I recall Biden making ridiculous demands on the networks without any complaints from The NY Times.
Jamal Khashoggi is dead. May his truth be heard. He was killed with a bone saw. That is the credible narrative. It was not a fist fight at the consulate with 15 other men. A post-mortem pathologist did not put his body parts in suitcases. The de-facto ruler knew we would question their contrived story, but Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman also knew we would continue to hold their blood-stained hands while we washed our own.
1
Yes Jamal Khashoggi is most definitely owed justice.
Keep it front and center. If Mohammed bin Salman is allowed to get away with what is essentially state-sponsored murder it's a green light and for every country who wishes to follow suite. That is a terrible message to send to journalists, many of whom have little protection as is.
Since January 2019 :
30 journalists killed
6 citizens journalists killed
2 media assistants killed
230 journalists imprisoned
136 citizens journalists imprisoned
17 media assistants imprisoned
https://rsf.org/en/barometer
2
In full concurrence with your outrage, strict measures ought to be in place to punish assassin Salman who, thus far, received only full congratulations from our own tyrant (named Donald J. Trump), oblivious to the cruel and stupid destruction of Khashoggi's life. I'm afraid that, if proto-fascist Trump had a chance, given his contempt for a free press (which he dubbs as 'the enemy of the people') when exposing his 'crimes', he would take drastic measures as well (i.e. 'killing the messenger', if his foul and abusive language is any indication of his open rage). No, Jamal Khashokki did not die in vain...whereas prince Salman shall live in infamy. Saudi Arabia is not our friend, a corrupt, and misogynistic, dictatordship instead. And speaking of the devil, why are we assisting the Saudis in destroying Yemeni people...if not starving them to death?
1
Saudi Arabia. A wondrous country. The de facto ruler can order torture and murder one day, and decree that women can drive and travel the next. Without permission, even. Unprecedented! Meanwhile, the progressive de facto ruler rounds up the usual suspects. See what happens next, says the de facto ruler. Some disappear, others reappear, still others dance and clap.
1
Our president is owed justice and apologies over what rogue Obama FBI, DOJ , national security political appointees and colluding liberal American TV media tried to do to him and his campaign in 2016 and now again in 2020.
in the name of all who are typing right now...........Nathan Hale died similarly. And, 243 years after his death I type within 100 feet of where he was hanged.
House of Sawed. Bones.
Grotesque.
1
Trump courts the King. Trump courts another man complicit in the killing of thousands of Muslims in Gujarat...none other than Modi. I ask why?
2
And Mr. Khashoggi’s fiancé waited outside for him.....
2
Murder is a legal conclusion under the law of a particular nation state.
Jamal Khashoggi was not an American citizen. Jamal Khashoggi was not killed in America by Americans.
Jamal Khashoggi was a citizen of Saudi Arabia who disappeared into the Saudi embassy in Turkey.
Jamal Khashoggi long supported and defended the Saudi royals. Including their extremist Sunni Muslim Wahhabi faith and their ethnic cleansing terrorist genocide against Sunni Muslim Kurds and Shia Muslim Arabs and Persians.
Khashoggi supported the genocide against the Houthi in Yemen. Khashoggi was a supporter of Mohammed bin Salman.
Jamal Khashoggi deserved and got what was coming to him. He was no humanitarian
See ' The Crown Prince of Saudi Arabia' Frontline PBS
1
WAPO, the Khashoggi killing is a dead issue. Move on. Find something important to print. This subscriber is getting annoyed reading the same thing over, over, and over again.
Any bets that transcripts between President Trump and Prince Mohammed of the whole sordid Khashoggi narrative are tucked away in that same political sensitive secret vault the Ukraine transcripts were tucked away into.
1
When the Ds take over next year,
MBS is gonna have a rude awakening
1
As a Muslim I prayed for Jamal Khashoggi on this one year anniversary of his murder, and I am sure in my trip to Istanbul, hopefully will be next year the first thing I will visit is his monument to lay a wreath of flowers. According to the Islamic Shariah, he is considered a martyr and will go straight to paradise, and those who participated in his killing will go eternally to the hell fire, or what is called Jahanam. Those who engineered his murder is the crown prince Mohammad Bin Salman, and his father King Salman will go in history as incompetent King, whose mental capacity is being questioned. Being a doctor specialist in internal medicine, family practice and Geriatrics. I strongly believe he is in the stage of having Alzheimer disease probably with moderate dementia. I challenge him to have a medical evaluation, particularly to check on his cognition capacity. I consider this Mohammad Bin Salman along with Mohammad Bin Zayed of Emirate and El Sisi of Egypt, Khalifa Haftar of Libya and Assad of Syria are the current evils dictators in the Arab world.
Public Facebook Dr.Mohammad Said and website www.drsaid.net
2
"You've done, really, a spectacular job." Trump to Prince Mohammed.
You can tell a man's character by the company he keeps.
1
I found this to be a devistating blow, not by the crown prince necessarily, but by Trump in essentially letting it slip by. And then Putin and the prince celebrated in public with Trump looking like a dope, totally oblivious to the damage to the US constitution and it's standing in the world and in the US.
I think that the Saudi's got a bit of retrobution from Iran. I do believe their action was tied to this event. They knew they could get away with it because of dwindling support from the US.
It seems pretty clear that the US should step back out from between these nations. If they want each other's blood, they can do it without us. I think the bottom line is that neither nation will have the guts to start a full blown war with each other.
As for the first amendment, it took a blow. One that should have been countered more forcefully.
1
A free press has had no effect; Khashoggi is still dead, Mohammed is still in charge. In fact Khashoggi's death was the result of a free press.
It is a measure of how far the USA has fallen in morality that CurrentOccupant lauds the murderous psychopath who heads the country which supplied most of the killers to the 9/11 massacres.
1
Government has killed humans for millennia, often without condemnation as in its killing of Jamal Khashoggi. We need to prevent it from harming, or killing, more humans, and we need to deal with those who help it, such as the evil MBS. However, the Editorial Board is misguided, focusing exclusively on justice for MBS, but that won't solve the problem of stopping it from harming or menacing us.
Consider the effort and attention that's been directed toward punishing MBS, so far unsuccessfully. We simply do not have the resources to do the same for all its killings.
Furthermore, we would be much better off if we stop it in the first place, instead of living in fear of it generation after generation.
5
@Jeff I doubt that the Board has only Khashoggi in mind, but since his case is salient, what better way to remind the public of this kind of totalitarian overreach than to focus on it.
2
It is about time that American foreign policy stop protecting and defending absolute monarchies with cultures and practices still in the Middle Ages. Women are not chattel. Murder is a crime.
Presidents Carter, Clinton, Obama, and others at least put human rights on their agendas, and would have distanced themselves and this country from the likes of Mohammed Bone Saw.
Now that renewable energies (solar, wind, someday times and fusion) are already economically competitive with fossil fuels, which must be abandoned to save humanity, we no longer need to continue the realpolitik of good relations and arms sales to oil autocrats in the Middle East and elsewhere.
I expect the next president to do the right thing.
3
So, if not now; when? Granted, #45 was not involved in his murder. However, our government should denounce this act of brutality, and now.
2
The savage brutality of Mr. Khashoggi's murder and dismemberment was contrasted with his life. He openly wrote about his views, fostered understanding and as a journalist exposed to light the machinations of authoritarian government and the actions of unscrupulous men.
His life ended at a consulate, a place considered sacrosanct across many centuries. His life was snuffed out during an innocent, happy bureaucratic chore with his fiancée waiting nearby. The dark violence and savagery could have been done a thousand years ago and still be viewed as an atrocity.
The lack of outrage, moral repugnance, and normal condemnation by both Trump and Kushner combined with their arrogance and moral vacui reflect psychopathic pathologies almost as extreme as that exhibited by Prince Mohammed and the killers.
The world recoils. Mr. Khashoggi will continue to be honored. Not so those who committed the act, ordered it, and condoned it.
6
Justice in Saudi Arabia?
Good luck with that.
Certain 'allies' have permanent 'Get Out of Jail FREE' cards. The Saudis agreed to sell oil only in US dollars some time ago. That bought them a lot of influence.
1
It is essential the communications between Putin, the Prince, Kushner, Trump and Pompeo be released as well as the full transcripts of the Zelensky calls. The citizens of this country have been subject to propaganda by this administration directly opposed to what National Security institutions have proven. We deserve and demand to know why this transpired in order to restore the chaos and instability in our personal relationships and align with Western allies rather than oppressive regimes.
6
MbS's "I take full responsibility" is meaningless. He claims - last night's Frontline - to be unable to oversee three million government employees. This is not some deputy assistant secretary helping himself to printer paper or overegging his expenses report. If he takes responsibility he resigns. It is impossible to believe that MbS and his henchman al-Qahtani were not involved from the beginning. Independent actions are not encouraged in Saudi Arabia. There are cooler heads among the senior princes - sons of prior kings - and I still have hope that they might prevail.
6
I recently saw the street sign outside the Saudi embassy in Washington DC for the first time: Khashoggi Way. Perhaps a nearby statue and memorial will follow. One can hope (but also petition our representatives!)
7
I agree, but I can't lay this one at the feet of Trump and the Republicans.
The truth is, we've been in bed with the Saudis for a long time. They have a huge amount of oil and wealth, and a lot of politicians on both sides of the isle, as well as corporations and businessmen, have their fingers in that greasy, little pie.
Until they can prove that they value human rights and treat people (especially their own women) with dignity, we need to stop buying their oil, selling them weapons, and otherwise doing business with them.
5
The institution of the free press, like every other right that we hold sacred, rests on the foundation of the inalienable right to life enumerated in our Declaration of Independence. All other rights are meaningless in the absence of the ability to be safe from bodily harm and death. The inalienable rights are not exclusive to those Europeans living on the American continent in 1776, but are endowed by the Creator upon every single human being bearing the image of that Creator according to the holy teachings of our Judeo-Christian heritage and faith.
That the government of the United States, acting on our behalf, views the inalienable right to life so cavalierly, threatens the very heart of our freedoms. That callous disregard extends well beyond the grisly murder and dismemberment of Jamaal Khashoggi, to the President's threats to shoot civilians crossing the border, to our utter failure to address the scourge of gun violence, and even to abortion, which should be legal, safe, and rare.
If America is to be the shining city on the hill, we must insist that the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness be at the heart of our dealings with the nations of the world.
5
The least the president should have done was insist on the release of non-violent political prisoners.
For example, Loujain Al-Hathloul, the women's rights activist, is still in prison. She was the Saudi woman who was originally arrested for driving a car at at time when it was forbidden. Later she was arrested for being a women's rights activist along with others. After more than a year in prison, she was offered release recently only if she signed an affidavit that she was never tortured. She has refused to sign such a statement.
According to her sister, Loujain suffered beatings, electric shock, and waterboarding in the summer of 2018. She also said Qahtani himself was one of Loujain's torturers.
8
I guess some people don't understand how important the press really is.
Without it, democracy ends quickly.
One of the major advantages of democracy is that it subjugates powerful people to popular perception. Without it, people in positions of power can get away with almost anything, like killing people they don't like.
One of the main reasons democracy is in peril is because the press has declined over the last several decades. Most of it is worse than nothing.
Some of it remains good. While I don't like this newspaper's blind, globalist goals, the rest of it is of incalculable value to democracy.
Khashoggi won't get justice as long as MBS remains crown prince and Trump, Kushner et al remain in his pocket. Maybe our next president will have the guts to rethink our "alliance" with the Saudis, unless they buy him or her off.
7
Stop trying to rehabilitate the crown prince. We ARE a global community now whether anyone likes it or not, and we should be upset and disagreeable to the actions taken by the crown prince against Mr. Khashoggi, now and forever!
6
"...exposed Saudi Arabia’s ruler as an enemy of a free press..."
Well, it's nice to see that there is something other than Trump to talk about, although the recognition that Schiff almost certainly had his fingers in the construction of the whistleblower complaint is a good reason to change the subjet.
But folks, we are talking about Saudi Arabia.
It's an autocracy.
There has never been a free press there, and there won't be.
And there is no respect for the cultures, values, or traditions of other societies.
Journalist and dissident are not mutually exclusive, and being a dissident in Saudi Arabia doesn't typically lead to a long and comfortable life.
Khashoggi is not the first Saudi dissident to disappear and probably won't be the last either.
Justice ?
Good luck with that.
4
@Objectivist
Ironic handle, as you are far from objective.
There is no evidence whatever for your gratuitous smear of Schiff. And your resignation to autocratic corruption amounts to complicity.
Trying to holding people accountable for atrocity is the very least we can do in democratic societies. And yes, we of good faith continue to strive for justice. It's appalling that you do not.
2
"The journalist’s savage murder exposed Saudi Arabia’s ruler as an enemy of a free press. His legacy should not stop there."
As those who watched CBS 60 Minutes last week may have noticed the start of a concerted effort by some US media and Saudi PR to rehabilitate Mohammed bin Salman. Clearly, those in Europe and US who have been recipients of millions, if not billions, of Saudi petrol-dollars in the past are eager to go back to Saudi Arabia and conduct business as usual. They are enthusiastically making their air-ways available to the bone-saw prince to deliver a carefully worded narrative that have been worked on for many months.
In that "speech", he essentially takes no responsibility for the savage killing of Jamal Khashoggi. He claims the murder was done by his minions and the decision to do that has come from them. But those who understand Saudi culture are telling us that it is impossible for his minions to take a single step without his explicit order.
In some ways the murder of Jamal Khashoggi has turned out to be a plus for Saudi Arabia and MBS. Now there is little discussion about Saudi human rights. No one is talking about those courageous Saudi women who are in Saudi prisons simply because they demanded a fraction of freedom enjoyed by everyone in the West. No one is talking about Saudi regime's beheading of its political enemies in public any more. No one is asking what is happening to religious minority dissidents in that country any more; etc.
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It certainly was an elaborate and grisly plot to murder this journalist with the obvious green light from the Prince himself. The minor reforms the Prince has put forward do not mask the true tyrannical nature of his ambitions. The Prince calculated correctly that there would not be any price to pay from the transactional Mr. Trump. Now we can witness rogue trials in Saudi Arabia where blame is placed on men who were just carrying out his orders. The Saudi version of Trump throwing people under the bus. Going into the future, civilized nations will be repulsed by the man and Trump will continue to embrace him with a Russian bear hug.
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Mr. Khashoggi was a Saudi citizen, killed in a Saudi consulate in Turkey. If justice is needed the Saudis and the Turks need to decide jurisdiction and proceed with trials. While we may well decry the events, we in no way have any jurisdiction over them, any more than the Saudis would have a jurisdictional claim on a trial of an American citizen for the killing of an American.
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@michaelscody there really is no problem of the people being tried in Saudi IF it showed any semblance of transparency.
Held behind closed doors with no way to follow to see who was really responsible. Probably because it was MBS himself so its not really an issue of jurisdiction but a need to discover and prove responsibility of the ones who actually ordered it...
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@michaelscody
Using your logic, the concentration camps in the second world war were also OK. German and Polish citizens were being killed in German institutions. No (hu)man is an island, and human rights and dignity are here for everyone.
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@michaelscody
This is not an issue of jurisdiction. Did you read the piece? MBS is guilty of countless outrages, besides ordering the gristly butchering of a US-based journalist. The US is effectively cozied up to a tyrant and contract killer, and justifies the relationship because, money. The US has no moral authority; in fact, it's bankrupt of any standing or legitimacy by its association with this creep. This is where we are, now.
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I want to know whether Norah O'Donnell had to agree to not ask certain specific questions.
I am having trouble figuring out why there were no questions about the frequency and content of the phone calls between MBS and persons at the consulate immediately before and after Kashoggi's murder.
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@Mark Keller Norah O'Donnell and 60 Minutes should never have done that interview. It was ridiculous and gave that murderer air time in America. It was shameful. What did she think he was going to say?
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I never truly appreciated the importance of a free press until this presidency. Thank you NYT and all journalists in the world who care about truth and justice.Your work and words give millions hope for the future.
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Government policy towards Saudi Arabia should be guided by our national interests, which is different from championing the free press. Our relations with Saudi Arabia are complex. They have little respect for freedom. But we both oppose Muslim terrorists and their oil policy is often favorable to us. Going to the mat with them in the name of the free press has great practical costs for us. Our collective interests far outweigh the interests of the Washington Post.
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@michjas ,
Your statements, without further explanation, stretch my credibility. They sound like something Henry Kissinger would say.
What are the great practical costs?
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@michjas - "Our relations with Saudi Arabia are complex."
This is one of those odious statements that one regularly hears whenever someone is trying to keep us in dark or dismiss our collective responsibility to humanity. And, it is often expressed by arrogant, Trump-like, individuals who can hardly understand anything but their own self-interest. Their condescension is so overwhelming that they fail to see that such vile statements treat everyone as children.
Historically, the public is told an issue is too complex when those in power want to avoid discussing policies that either fill up their own pockets or deprive someone or some group from the justice we all take for granted. We have been told many times that "Palestinian issue" is complex. We are told that the "Syrian civil war" was/is complex. We are told that Saudi brutal, inhumane, war in Yemen is very complex; etc., etc.
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@michjas
t's not about a free press. It's about not murdering people. Or using an embassy for extra-judicial killings. That Khashoggi, a mild critic of the regime, was a respected journalist with the Washington Post is beside the point. No one expects the US to break diplomatic ties with the Saudis but, among those who enjoyed the benefit of your kind of ''realpolitik'' are General Pinochet, the Shah of Iran, and the Khmer Rouge. Not a pretty list. And tell me where was the long term gain for America.
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Since when does residency in the US confer the same level of protection while traveling as citizenship? Khashoggi was a Saudi citizen who died in a Saudi embassy in Turkey. Not our issue.
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@QED
Seriously?
One does not have to claim that Khashoggi should have had "the same level of protection" as a US citizen to care about his murder, and make sober judgements about MBS and his preeminent role in the House of Saud.
Even if human life, and the profound role that journalism plays in balanced societies are not of interest to you, how about calling MBS out enough so that he doesn't keep going around around killing people - and unintentionally spark a war or two?
Of course, you could argue that the Middle East is so stable that there is nothing to worry about...
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@QED ,
Ok then - case closed - Q.E.D.
Let's put our heads back in the sand.
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It’s not about that. It’s about a renown journalist working for a US newspaper - helping US citizens and the world - get a better understanding about Saudi Arabia and what’s happening there. I doubt you’d know anything about it if it wasn’t for journalists doing a public service.
He could have been a Russian that’s not the point. It really does concern you if you’d take the less self centered approach.
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Our President’s predilection—if an autocrat, a dictator (When did it become acceptable for a US President to praise someone as his “favorite dictator”?) claims innocence (MBS and Vladimir Putin not, alas, representing an exhaustive list), while American intelligence professionals/law enforcement officers/diplomats present compelling evidence to the contrary (and their conclusions are, with respect to Mr. Khashoggi’s murder, reinforced by other investigators)—for believing seemingly everyone BUT those professionals, whose job is to report the truth as they see it, regardless of whether a multi-billion dollar arms sale is pending, has once again stained his hands with the blood of a victim whose chosen career was anathema to both Trump and MBS: journalist. That in itself should frighten us all.
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@Marvin Bruce Bartlett
Well said. Trump has blood on his hands. Saudi blood, Philippine blood, North Korean blood, ...
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I shouldn’t have said “once again” in my comment; otherwise, I stand by it.
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@Marvin Bruce Bartlett --And, as it impacts the United States of America, we all have to accept the shame for choosing a "Resident" to sit in our highest office who lacks both brains and a soul.
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A new independent investigation by truly free press journalists should occur after the tired press has adopted the government's analysis as facts. The following facts should be considered in outlining a possible new analysis of the Mafia like murder of Khashoggi;
Much of history since WWII has been linked to the Fossil Fuels industries and the needs of those fuels, especially by the biggest user, the military.
Republicans have been closely allied with the industry and each time they gain majority power, the prices of fuels escalate degrading the economy, most notably in 2008. The historical timelines of oil prices, political power, and economic health closely track one another.
Jamal Khashoggi could be called a Saudi dissident, coming from Saudi Arabia as he was critical of it's society, but more importantly, located in the Washington area, seat of American power, sensitive to Fossil Fuels policies where he wrote for the Washington Post in an obviously major influential way.
When Khashoggi was murdered, a look alike was seen in the Turkish city. That is to me reminiscent of a thriller. A possible motive was to obscure Khashoggi's disappearance with an alibi that he had married and returned to Saudi Arabia never to be seen again.
Up until the advent of oil drilling advances, Saudi Arabia was the largest exporter of crude oil. Now we are.
I wonder if some of our own people were complicit. So much has happened over oil. He was drawn out of the safety of the states.
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"....sensible American administration ... seek rapid, durable political reform in Saudi Arabia." All true and admirable. We have been there before and used all good and bad tools to seek reform in other countries. Afghanistan and Iraq are prime examples of US nation building. A slew of US presidents could not get rid of the religious police in Saudi malls and streets. More galling is the fact that the most of the 9/11 assailants were Saudis. It is convenient to pin everything on Osama but that is not the whole truth. Moreover, I find it laughable that 60 Minutes allowed MBS to proclaim his innocence when his murderous regime will not allow any criticism.
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@robert ,
Exactly. "Nations that value human rights" are supposed to "seek rapid, durable political reform in Saudi Arabia". the What??
That's a lot like: "People unable to pay their bills" should "seek quick, significant refuge in winnings from scratch off tickets".
Nothing can be sought. Mr. Bone Saw is driving this bus.
May shame be treble-heaped upon him.
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