Even the US is doing the same as that of Turkey. Human rights are only conveniently used whenever it is for our national interest. Where are human rights of the US when the Saudi murdered her own citizen Khashoggi by dismembering his body parts? Where are human rights of 80+ thousands of homicide victims committed by gun violence while the US government standby in failing to pass the gun legislation? Half-baked democracy and human rights are weapons of choices of the self-righteous US to wield because it is cheap and cost nothing.
3
It is not wise to mention the treatment of the ‘native population’ in the history of either the USA or Canada if mentioning ‘similar’ problems in other lands.
China has been repressive of in the 1/6 of its territory occupied with nationalities with their own desires for independence. Muslim lands elsewhere seem to understand those practices; the vocal opposition often comes for sources e.g. Radio Free Asia set for ideological purposes; now joined by Trump administration, not a usual source for humanitarian issues.
China does have positive developmental plans for both Tibet and Xinjiang, you could say whether they wish it or not, and are teaching them ‘the nations language’ and customs; as did the USA and Canada – so it goes worldwide.
China seems to be handling the political side of the controversy well.
2
The Times is complicit in the silence on the Uighurs, this one article notwithstanding. On the other hand, it is obsessed with Israel, which has never in its history, treated anyone the way that China has been treating the Uighurs, and this article doesn't cover the half of it. Why is that, one wonders.
13
China will not be stopping at Muslims, on that we may rely.
7
The Times is as silent on the plight of the Uighurs as the rest of the world, this article notwithstanding. On the other hand, it is obsessed with Israel, which, in its history, has never done to anyone what the Chinese have been doing to the Uighurs, and this article doesn't report on the half of it.
5
The Times is as silent on the plight of the rest of the world on the plight of the Uighurs. On the other hand, it is obsessed with Israel, which has never done anything to compare with what the Chinese are doing to its own citizens, and the article doesn't report the half of it.
5
At several points during the day I tried to publish the same civil comments. They were not published for what I can only guess are political reasons. I went through this once before, emailed an editor with a link to the article in question, along with the comments I tried to post. I received an apology and was told this would not happen again. But it did, as we see. It is a more pressing matter now, as I was thinking about recommending to the committee I chair that the 1200 students we serve be required to subscribe to the Times. One thing we would all have liked to see is there participating in political conversations by commenting. One thing we would not like to see is their being censored when whoever handles comments objects to their political views. The fair sharing of opposing views is what this college stands for, and not in name only. I am disappointed.
3
Muslims are discriminated against in the US, and we never hear the end of it. A million Muslims are put into concentration political prisoner camps in China, but the same folks criticizing forget their voice. hmmm
As usual, much easier to be vocal against the US, Denmark, Netherlands, whenever their is a racist or discriminatory incident, as there are no repercussions. China has a long successful history of reeducating those with unwell thoughts.
9
It is not wise to mention the treatment of the ‘native population’ in the history of either the USA or Canada if mentioning ‘similar’ problems in other lands.
China has been repressive of in the 1/6 of its territory occupied with nationalities with their own desires for independence. Muslim lands elsewhere seem to understand those practices; the vocal opposition often comes for sources e.g. Radio Free Asia set for ideological purposes.
China does have positive developmental plans for both Tibet and Xinjiang, you could say whether they wish it or not, and are teaching them ‘the nations language’ and customs; as did the USA and Canada – so it goes worldwide.
According to this article, the Chinese goverment action is meant to prevent terrorism within their own territory. In other words, to prevent their version of 9/11.
To achieve the same goal, the US has spent trillions of dollars, inflicted untold pains and casualties in war zones, caused hundreds and thousands of PTSD and opiod addicts at home.
I say the Chinese get it right.
In terms of morality, we do not exactly sit on the high ground. In Canada, as late as 1960's, we had Christian residential schools for first nations people to 'modernize' them to western Christian way of living.
6
I am often critical of the times, but applaud the paper for publishing this story.
There is a much larger take away lesson from this story though, which is that all of us only see news that is reported from places where journalists are allowed or willing to visit. We also often see stories written about corrupt or oppressive regimes that are flattering because those same journalists want to be invited back and to have access to government officials. That leads often to extreme criticisms of leaders of countries that are comparatively free, and minimal criticism of leaders (and of prevailing conditions) in less free places.
For the hundredth time i've said this: democracy, liberty , human rights, religious freedom mean nothing... it's all about the money, trade, profits and jobs. Human rights and freedom take a back seat to our greed , selfishness, cultural identity, race and nationality. The West created and empowered China. We have no one else to blame but ourselves, except of course the progressives back in the early 1990's warned about China, Nafta and the WTO. These last 20 years the sellout Democrats and Republicans still want trade with China and other oppressive regimes to flourish, as much as i want Trump impeached and the Republicans thrown out of Congress, i'm afraid that anyone replacing these crooks will bring back and also increase trade with these rogue nations, all but the progressives like Sanders and Warren. My vote goes to either of the two, all others are just status quo, Wall St, big corporate puppets.
3
I wish to the author will give clear evidence to back her claim of 1 million internments. I have read data like 2 million, to 7 million randomly conveyed by the mainstream media without any legitimacy of data source, I just want to know how did the author come up with such data?
3
@spotlessmind The math comes out to about $30 Billion dollars per 1 million internment. 2 million, to 7 million would mean $60 Billion, to $210 Billion. In comparison, the entire Chinese 2019 defense spending is at only $177.61 billion. The numbers just don't make sense!
1
Remember Gitmo? 9/11 took place in 2001. USA can't even handle moving the remaining Islamic jihadists onto the mainland and close it down. Trump has vowed to keep the prison in Cuba open and to use it to detain "bad dudes," potentially including American supporters of ISIS. Billions spent on "the war on terrorism" and nothing to show for it. The carnage continues.
Seems China just got fed up with Islamic terrorists and they know the roots of all terrorism is ideology. Call it re-education or de-programming, eradication of dangerous ideology is the key to reducing terrorism.
1
1M+ people is a HUGE number of people. San Jose, the #10 largest city in the US, has just over 1M in population. Paying for creating the buildings to house 1M+ people is huge. Paying for the personnel to identify, detain, and manage 1M+ people is huge. Paying for the daily food and other supplies for the 1M+ people is also huge. If China's motivation is anti-terrorism, then the approach of interning 1M+ would just foster more terrorism, and the Chinese cannot undertake such a huge project without understanding that common sense. It also does not make sense If China's motivation is the elimination of that minority population, as we are not hearing about mass killings. The facts are that we do not have access to the real info regarding Xinjiang. We do not trust the Chinese, who know what is going on and are authorized to speak on the matter, and the Western "experts" are drawing conclusions from info gathered that cannot be verified. China went through the Great Leap Forward and Cultural Revolution, which killed some 60M+. If the CCP is still that evil now, then terminating the entire 11M Uighur population by some chemical or biological "accident" would have been vastly cheaper and less of an international PR headache.
4
@Schwanish Average Annual Cost of Incarceration in the US is $32,309.80 per inmate. So, it should cost the Chinese about $30 Billion dollars per year, since costs are cheaper there. But still, $30 Billion is WOW! More than half of the states in the US have an annual state budget smaller than $30 Billion per year.
https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2018/04/30/2018-09062/annual-determination-of-average-cost-of-incarceration
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._state_budgets
1
@Schwanish Average Annual Cost of Incarceration in the US is $32,309.80 per inmate. So, it should cost the Chinese about $80 Billion dollars per year, since costs are cheaper there. But still, $80 Billion is WOW! Only 5 states in the US have an annual state budget larger that $80 Billion per year.
https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2018/04/30/2018-09062/annual-determination-of-average-cost-of-incarceration
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._state_budgets
@Schwanish Dont know if anything wrong is happening in China. At worst - probably someone is doing something!
Only one major world leader is holding Xi to account,daring to risk Chinese ire with tariffs resulting in economic harm to his core constituency. This leader is providing a hope for Chinas neighbors in the frontline of Chinese depredations.
Xi is likey rooting for Democrats to get rid of Trump asap.The people of Hong Hong,Tiawan others in the region and perhaps a few brave souls in China hoping Democrats fail.
12
I wonder if Pense will step up his criticism now that there are reports of Christians being rounded up:
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/world/article-in-xinjiang-incarceration-of-christians-and-han-chinese-shows-broad/
6
@Geo
Neither the United States nor most of the rest of the world is interested in what happens to Christians, and, less so, Jews. Notice the lack of coverage on the murder of Christians in Nigeria, for instance.
2
@Geo
Why would he? Neither the US nor the rest of the world is interested in the persecution of Christians, less so of Jews. When, for instance, was the last time you read about the murder of Christians in Nigeria?
1
And yet there is no B.D.S. movement in America against China for its treatment of Muslims as there is against Israel. Of course a B.D.S. movement against China would necessitate people actually giving up something -- their cell phones, computers, and other China-made gadgets -- unlike their opposition to Israeli policies, which entails no personal "sacrifice."
As usual, talk is cheap. And that includes Members of Congress and the Administration (including those who are Muslim), who are extremely selective about which foreign Muslims they care about.
Take your pick as to whether this is:
1/ blatant hypocrisy
2/ anti-Semitism
3/ Musilms aren't worth giving up one's cell phone for
4/ politically cynical expedience
5/ all of the above
21
@Steve Fankuchen
There may not be an organized movement but I, and people I know, actively avoid buying products that are made in China.
4
@Geo
I've been hearing for many years anecdotally that this or that person refuses to buy made-in-China products (for a multitude of reasons) but it doesn't seem to be coming through the trade statistics. Furthermore, because of the complexity of modern supply chains, products bought in other countries often have Chinese components or are even subsidiaries of Chinese parent companies.
3
If not enough people understand we must disentangle from this brutal dictatorship yet, then perhaps the media are not doing their job in educating the public.
3
The use of re-education camps is as shameful now as it was under Mao. The article points out that the camps are a response to terrorist acts committed by a small number of Uyghurs (see, for example https://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/02/world/asia/china.html). The Chinese believe that Uyghur assimilation will reduce terrorism, and that it is a better option than a full military occupation of Xinjiang Province. But, the camps are a violation of human rights.
China is a sovereign nation. Change to the Chinese government and its policies must come from the Chinese people, not from intervention from other countries, and particularly not from the US. We would not be very happy if China intervened to stop the internment of immigrant children in the US.
Threats of intervention from the US are certainly not going to help the situation.
Intervention IS justified in the case of genocide, and in that case, the intervention should come from the UN, but I have hard no evidence of a Uyghur genocide.
4
The current situation is a disgrace, but it's not a surprise. Unfortunately, at the moment there isn't any country with both the power and the moral standing to push back hard. We can only urge those with less power but more moral standing to act as far as they dare, and to be bold in daring. Dependency can be a two-way street, so there may be more leverage than it at first seems.
5
A brutal, racist crackdown of a religious group by a superpower? Our history is replete with successful efforts of limiting the radicalization Muslims already oppressed by the state. I mean, what could wrong?
Very simple.
Money is more important than Allah.
Hypocrisy at its finest.
6
I wonder why Iran, a Muslim country, doesn’t impose trade sanctions on China and refuse to sell oil to China.
11
@Richard Wright See comment above. Money is more important than Allah.
5
And yet there is no B.D.S. movement in America against China for its treatment of Muslims as there is against Israel. Of course a B.D.S. movement against China would necessitate people actually giving up something -- their cell phones, computers, and other China-made gadgets -- unlike their opposition to Israeli policies, which entails no personal "sacrifice."
As usual, talk is cheap. And that includes Members of Congress and the Administration (including those who are Muslim), who are extremely selective about which foreign Muslims they care about.
Take your pick as to whether this is:
1/ blatant hypocrisy
2/ anti-Semitism
3/ Musilms aren't worth giving up one's cell phone for
4/ politically cynical expedience
5/ all of the above
10
Xi - Eventually you will have to answer for your brutality and I am looking forward to that day.
2
China's success on this issue is the success of human ugliness over kindness; Money over principles; Injustices over justice; Dictatorship over democracy; Darkness over freedom; State sponsored terror over isolated individual violence; Fallacy of composition over reality; Socialism with Chinese characteristics over capitalism with respect for individual rights; Potency of China over Impotency of UN; Racist power over Godly power;
Come on World, feel terrified over this issue!!! 1.4 Billion people led by the secondmost powerful country is waging a war against 15 million Uyghurs whose numbers are dwindling day by day due to Chinese style manslaughter in death camps.
Imagine yourself as a Uyghur, and let your conscience speak. Anyone, any people and any nation that supported China's this crime against humanity will suffer ultimately one day. Karma works in a mysterious way!
11
@Uyghur: As an ethnic Jew, I absolutely believe that the world (through the UN) has a responsibility to stop genocide. I am not aware of death camps in China, or of mass extermination of Uyghurs in China. Can you provide evidence for these claims?
There ARE re-education camps in Xinjiang Province aimed at forcing the assimilation of Uyghurs. This IS a violation of human rights, but is NOT genocide. It is perfectly reasonable for people around the world to apply pressure to countries committing human rights violations, but sovereign countries are free to implement their own policies within their borders. Intervention IS justified in the case of genocide, but I have seen no evidence of Uyghur extermination. I WOULD certainly want to know about it if this is happening.
3
@ShenBowen
Thank you for responding and making inquiry. I see you not an ethnic Jew but as a fellow human-being.
I am surprised that with this level of scrutiny, and despite there are so many reports, testimonies of camp survivors, you are still looking for the evidence...
When Hitler was committing the heinous crime against the Jews in the last century, World did not believe it, and tons of documents about genocide obtained only after He was defeated..
If you ask me to provide you with evidence of genocide, I can not. But the reality on the ground suggests that something akin to Genocide have happened. How many thousands of Uyghur people have to die to reach your definition of Genocide? There are reports that people are dying in the camps and some are dying soon after they released from camps. (https://www.rfa.org/english/news/uyghur/death-07152019163824.html)
(https://www.rfa.org/english/news/uyghur/teacher-09092019162606.html)
But I believe that it will be revealed one day.
If you are so eager to know the truth, why don't you travel there and do objective investigation? Thanks for your attention to this matter.
3
@Uyghur: and thank you for your thoughtful reply. You're right, by the time genocide is visible, it's often too late to intervene. The two articles you include make the case that the lives of innocent people are being lost as a result of the internments. I haven't seen evidence that Beijing's goal is genocide. It seems that they want the Uyghur population to assimilate into Chinese society, which would be a threat to Uyghur culture.
I travel often to China and would like to visit Xinjiang Province to see for myself. Unfortunately I believe that there are still restrictions on travelers not in tour groups. Seeing for yourself IS generally the best way to get at the truth.
1
I feel when reporting about the recent mistreatment of Chinese Muslims by Chinese government in western media, including NYT, it is rarely mentioned the root cause of the crackdown in recent years. It is taken for granted that mostly due to the Chinese government's anti-religion stance. But this can't be entirely true, as anyone who has visited any temples or churches in China, they are likely more crowded than ever these days. But why this is happened in recent years and why only to Muslims? The obvious answer is the recent terrorism, and in China mostly by radicalized Muslims. There were multiple attacks in China for the last 10 to 15 years, mostly in Xinjiang province, and the worst resulted over hundreds of people being murdered. In Xinjiang, tens of police stations were attacked by terrorists in the last 15 years. But why the sudden flareup after 2000, as terrorism was pretty much unheard of before that. The Afghanistan war started right after 9/11, and Taliban government was toppled and driven out of the cities. But they and other terrorists still controlled large part of Afghanistan. It is generally believed at least some of those terrorists in China got their training across the border in Afghanistan.
11
@Bill Whitehead
I seem to recall persecution of multiple religious minorities in China including Christians, Muslims and Tibetan Buddhists, oh, and the Falun Gong....
5
@Richard
FLG is a cult like Scientology, not a religion.
3
@Bill Whitehead
The rise of Wahhabi in Uighur religion is the main cause of current camps. It is not to destroy Uighur religion but make sure Uighur don't get converted in to the same extreme religion that ISIS has.
Example of Uighur turning Wahhabi:
They start wearing black and Hijab instead of Uighur traditional bright clothing without Hijab
9
Because other states have or are engaging in ethnic and religious tyranny and repression does not give anyone of them a pass. Two wrongs don't make a right. In fact no amount of wrongs make a right.
3
Excellent reporting and most informative article.
3
If the Chinese majority do not with to allow religion within their borders, is it not their right as a sovereign nation to do so? Is that not democracy?
3
@Martin Alexander
No. Freedom of Religion is a human right. It is a sovereign right of every human being, not a right that can be taken away by a minority or majority.
Decisions in China are not made by the majority in any case. Even if the Communist Party is popular, its Politburo decision making process does not involve any form of democracy.
6
@Joseph
Who decides what religions are valid? And furthermore, who decides what what constitutes the practice of religion as a protected human right? Religions are made up concepts by humans.
What are you suggesting, there be a world police and every country all have to follow what ideas Americans think are the truth?
2
Keep in mind that Freedom of Religion implies Freedom From Religion as well.
1
I suspect that most non-Muslim governments and officials have enough suspicion of Islam to sympathize to a good extent with Chinese fear of Islam. The Muslims in China are part of the vast Turkic expansion over central Asia, from the nation of Turkey through all the "stans" and other large Muslim states like Indonesia and Malasia. They offer a threat to the very nature of China, a multi-ethnic state based on a common written language and a common sense of history over thousands of years, older than any in the Middle East. The Chinese can indeed be sympathized with on this issue.
8
@n1789
No, the Chinese government is considerably more controlling than the U S government. They have little to fear from any minority, religious or otherwise. This is Han ethnic nationalism, similar to what they have been doing to Tibetan Buddhists since the eighties, not to mention a bunch of other religious and ethnic minorities. Don’t fool yourself.
2
Turkey, Iran, Indonesia, Pakistan ... all mum about the supposed maltreatment of fellow Muslims.
Last autumn in Kashghar I saw a happy healthy people enjoying their days. No overt signs of oppression (soldiers in the street, fear of talking to strangers, etc). China having a MILLION Muslims in camps is the best kept incarceration in human history.
In fact most Muslims approve of China reigning in this minority. Most Chinese Muslims are Hui, loved by all, but the minority Turkic Uighars not. Why? The latter contributed far above their numbers to the recently defeated Abu Bakr Baghdadi Kaliphate terrorists that made all Muslims and non-Muslims cringe with fear.
Historically, Xinjiang was the farthest outpost of the Kaliphate, Arab then Turkic that monopolized trade and milked East West Silk Road with oppressive Tariffs (Arabic word). It depressed European and Chinese industries and made Islam un-competitive as Tariffs do.
Crusades to free trade and Kaliphate grip failed. Then followed 100 famines during 100 years straddling years 1300AD. Kaliphate starved Christian to half their numbers.
Today, Russia and Iran with blessings from EU and China are cleansing the New Silk Road of Kaliphate lovers to prevent an encore. Uighars are necessary part of that cleanup. Thank you China.
The world belongs to globalists, not Trump's patriots.
4
Historically, China has had no problem killing large numbers of its residents. I have read that they are harvesting the organs of the detainees in these places.
2
My senator, Sherrod Brown of Ohio, wrote me a lengthy constituent letter on this matter telling me how he has tried to aid the Uighurs. I urge him to send this letter out as a general press release to appear on the Google News feed so the Chinese can see it.
1
Of course, we're staying silence. With children of migrants locked in cages and with their parents held in our overcrowded detention camps, we the leader of the free world is in no longer in the position to tell others how to run their detention camps.
“We have in fact, two kinds of morality, side by side: one which we preach, but do not practice, and another which we practice, but seldom preach.”
Bertrand Russell
4
When the US discriminated against Muslims (a despicable thing to do) the West goes bonkers but China can do that and worse. India can strip citizens of their Citizenship and no one says a word. Why is that?
4
@Justice Holmes
There was no stripping of citizenship. You cannot strip citizenship from someone who is not a citizen. Illegal immigrants from Bangladesh calling themselves Indian citizens are not Indian citizens.
Get your facts straight.
7
From 1959 to 1961 China facilitated the death of 20 to 43 million of their own residents from starvation. What is a million Uighurs to them?
4
The silence from the Arab League, Saudi Arabia, Iran, Jordan, Egypt, all supposed champions of Muslim causes, is deafening on this issue.
8
It is shameful for Muslim majority countries to stay silent. This is sadly another example of pragmatism, politics and power winning out, at least in the short term.
We are seeing similar silence on Kashmir, which is under lockdown by India. India is a strategic counterweight to China, so we fete its leader, a man denied a US visa in the past for his role in Muslim massacres.
In the 20th century, Jews were marginalized and victimized, and finally subject to the horrors of the Holocaust. They were subject to caricature, and imbued with sinister global power.
Could this now be the Muslim century?
3
@Baddy Khan
The reason that these countries stay silent is because money is more important than Allah.
Pakistan in particular is the most hypocritical. It has sold its soul to the Chinese purely from its hatred of India. Isn't it amazing that there has not been a single protest in Pakistan about the Uighurs? Meanwhile, hundreds of thousands came out for the funeral of Mumtaz Qadir the murderer of the Governor of Punjab who had simply voiced support to the Asia Bibi who was falsely charged for blasphemy.
Pakistan gives hypocrisy a bad name.
7
@Baddy Khan
What's allegedly happening to this minority is horrific if true. However, Muslims are in no danger comparable to Jews since they are spread out across vast stretches of territory and in theory will always have somewhere to flee (witness the Rohingya Muslims who fled Myanmar into neighbouring Bangladesh - horrific? Yes, but at least most of them are alive). Jews had nowhere to flee and when they did manage to flee - the countries in which they found shelter were overrun by the Germans in any case (e..g France, the Netherlands, Soviet Union, etc.). Perhaps if you framed the issue as a particular ethnicity that happens to be Muslim is under threat this issue would gain more traction.
1
@Baddy Khan Jews are still subject to caricature and imbued with sinister global power. Muslims are often the ones to do it and the same left who condemns racism under every nook and cranny will be silent due to the fact is coming from people like ilhan Omar. you don't remember her "Israel has hypnotized the world" remark?
And yet there is no B.D.S. movement in America against China for its treatment of Muslims as there is against Israel. Of course a B.D.S. movement against China would necessitate people actually giving up something -- their cell phones, computers, and other China-made gadgets -- unlike their opposition to Israeli policies, which entails no personal "sacrifice."
As usual, talk is cheap. And that includes Members of Congress and the Administration (including those who are Muslim), who are extremely selective about which foreign Muslims they care about.
Take your pick as to whether this is:
1/ blatant hypocrisy
2/ anti-Semitism
3/ Musilms aren't worth giving up one's cell phone for
4/ politically cynical expedience
5/ all of the above
7
All of this Muslim being interned into camps is peddled overblown nonsense. It's a gross exaggeration and deliberate misrepresentation of what is actually going on. The Chinese government responds adequately and intelligently to deal with a terrorist threat to its national security. In America, we just go where they live and bomb the carp out them. Take your pick, which is best? Next thing NYT is going to claim is that HK protesters/rioters are being rounded up and sent away into camps in Xinjiang where their organs are being removed under vivisection for sale on the black market. I wished the western press would stop insulting the intelligence of its readers. Enough peddling nonsense about Muslims in China.
3
Where is the outcry from Reps Omar on Tlaib on this? Where is BDS?
11
When the USSR had re-education camps for Jews Angela Davis expressed support for it. When Jewish groups rightfully expressed disapproval of her getting a human rights award last year the media, activist community, and Muslim lobbyists proclaimed loudly that she was being vilified for "criticizing Israel". Chickens come home to roost. when the left has been willing to support similar behavior towards Jews, and Muslims have declared unanimously that certain behavior or attitudes or discrimination towards Jews is perfectly acceptable nobody should be surprised when is considered acceptable towards them. Perhaps they never heard that "first they came for the Jews" poem
8
February 5, 2017: In an interview with Bill O’Reilly, when his interviewer says Putin is "a killer," Trump responds: "There are a lot of killers. You think our country's so innocent?" [Fox]
1
If government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not have already perished from the earth, future generations will look back on our appeasement of, and complicity with, China's authoritarian regime as the second greatest sin of our era.
The greatest sin of course being our unsustainable addiction to the finite resource that is fossil fuels, a sin for which future generations will look more kindly on future Nobel laureate Greta Thunberg than on the Koch brothers.
2
@Mitch Gitman I think you are right. If you read the new book "KochLand" you will experience how like minded the Koch Industries are to the CCP.
1
Of course democratic ally India get a free pass for turning Kashmir into a black hole. No internet access. 900,000 soldiers suffocating Kashmiris. Why don't the West talk as much about Kashmir?
14
@freokin Because India is doing the right thing in Kashmir by making it a normal part of the country, ending a misogynist and theocratic set of special laws. The clampdown is necessary because the place is riddled with Pakistan-supported terrorists.
6
@freokin
Regardless of whether the reconstruction of Kashmir’s government is right or not, it is not the same as locking up a million people in concentration camps. Please stop using what-aboutism and false equivalencies, it make it very obvious that your real goal is just to defend China.
3
@freokin
Because there is nothing to talk about.
2
Could it be that most "world leaders" have lost their moral standing? They lost it because they impose sanctions for possibly violating nuclear proliferation on Iran, but support Israel financially and with technology, and take no steps against India or Pakistan. They ban Iran from participation in judo events because that country boycotts fights against Israeli athletes, but Israel competes in FIFA events even though they boycott Palestinian teams and their travel to competitions.
When moral arguments are made mainly for political reason, respect for international law, common decency, and respecrt for human beings is undermined.
Maybe it is better to be silent than to be a hypocrite.
7
@Peter Schaeffer What about almost literally the entire Arab world boycotting the Israeli soccer team, forcing them to play in Europe, which is notoriously more difficult? I understand your point, even though I completely disagree with it, but your approach is bizarre. Is your sole argument here that we help fund the world's lone Jewish state so we've all lost our marbles?
1
@Peter Schaeffer Just wondering if world leaders of of the time has their moral compass when the Spanish and Portuguese conquistadors ransacked Central and South America. Or when English/French conquers of North America pretty much decimated -- completely vanquished the Native American population here. Or when the European colonial occupiers ransacked Africa, South Asia and Southeast Asia. In these conquests, not only the world leaders, even the Church Leadership was hand in glove. What are U talking? -- Kollengode S Venkataraman
2
@Peter Schaeffer Palestine is not a state and in any event Israel does not boycott Palestinian teams, though I suspect you have Gaza in mind where certain individuals were not allowed into Israel on the grounds that they had terrorist ties. There is no principle in international law that requires free access by everyone and anyone to the territory of a sovereign nation. Moral considerations, of course, come into play with refugees and economic migrants - but that is not whom you are concerned with.
As far as preventing travel generally, such a ban (if it existed, and it doesn’t) would be impossible to enforce given that Hamas-controlled Gaza's southern border is with Egypt and not Israel. People forget about this basic geographical fact under the deluge of the oft repeated "Gaza is like the Warsaw Ghetto" trope. Then again, I don’t recall the Jews of the Warsaw Ghetto having any soccer (or any sports) teams traveling anywhere.
3
We should take a hard line with China. China is effectively engaging in Ethnic Cleansing on a grand scale. Those Uighurs that are not imprisoned or executed are sent to reeducation camps to cleanse their minds of their religious beliefs. One can speculate that the reason the Chinese did not use its military to eliminate the protests in Hong Kong was to do so would have by created yet another unhappy province subjugated (Xinjiang, Tibet) by force. It would once again show itself for what it is, a totalitarian dictatorship that will accept nothing less than the purity of its communist doctrine. Additionally its constant sabre rattling towards Taipei, its land grabs in the South China Sea, and its support of North Korea show that it's not a responsible global citizen. It seem clear that its goal is to diminish the West as well as its civilizations and dominate the world. I know our history is replete with instances where our government has espoused an altruism such as a representative democracy and then takes action to destroy it in another country when it does not suit the "national interest", but we have no interest in placating China other than greed. I remember when people were afraid that the economic success Japan, a democratic nation, would mean the end of our nation. That is more likely to happen with China who does not share our belief in a free society.
11
@George
This what happens when a country is run by engineers and not lawyers. When they try to solve problems, they turn up heaven and earth trampling civil liberties in the process. Problem with overpopulation. They imposed a one child policy. Problem with constant flooding. They built Three Gorges Dam sinking hundred of towns and ancient historical sites. Problem with Islamic extremism. Round up the Uighurs and put them in camps. India is getting the same idea with Kashmir. It's easy to preach if we don't live in that part of the world and the price they're willing to pay for things we take for granted.
10
@Michael
China did away with One Child Policy last year
There are many good reasons to not buy goods made in China, this is another one.
5
China notwithstanding, world is
silent on suffering of Yemenis, Kashmiris and Syrians. Secretary Pompeo never complained to India, Prime Minister Mr. Modi was given
a big reception in Houston, about
incarceration of 7 million Kashmiris.
China has incarcerated one million
but India has 7 times more. USA is
silent.It is also silent on Yemen and
continues to supply weapons to
Saudis and UAE to inflict more
suffering. It is all very political. USA
view China as adversary, it is critical.
It consider India and Saudi Arabia as
allies, it is silent. The contradictions
are not lost on other world leaders.
7
@s.khan India has no policy of forced assimilation. There are more Muslims in India than in Pakistan. Like Baluchistan in Pakistan where there are separatist issues India has faced unrelenting extremism supported by Pakistan in the Kashmir valley. The Indian politicians are also to be blamed for not solving this issue and moving forward with the Simla agreement of 1972 with Pakistan to normalize the boarders/accepet the line of control and put an end to the charade of China occupied/Pakistan occupied/India occupied Kashmir. Pakistan needs to start focusing on internal development and detach its self from supporting extremist who have wrecked havoc in Afghanistan and India. What's not lost to the world leaders in the PM of Pakistan Imran Khan complaining about India while ignoring the repression of Muslims in China
12
@s.khan
Isn't it amazing that there has not been a single protest in Pakistan about the Uighurs? Meanwhile, hundreds of thousands came out for the funeral of Mumtaz Qadir the murderer of the Governor of Punjab who had simply voiced support to Asia Bibi who was falsely charged for blasphemy.
Money is more important than Allah.
5
Part of this indifference comes from a notion that the Muslim world has inadequately supported human rights of its own people, but what China is doing is far worse.
5
If China are controlling news of its Human Rights violations then it is down to us, those who contribute to publications like the NYT, to shout about such abuses as loudly and often as we can.
2
This is why I think the UN headquarters would be a more valuable use of space as condos or low income housing. They can pass another dozen resolutions against Israel but can't find a voice on this situation or the equally horrible one in Myanmar. It was a bold idea in 1948 but now just a corrupt joke.
6
This is PM Imran Khan's opportunity to align himself with the Muslims in China, he has promised to be a champion to Muslims, and was raising the Kashmir issue at OIC countries. That back-fired.
He should now take a winning position and talk about the Chinese internment camps, at the OIC.
8
@Gyns D
Will never happen. China owns Pakistan.
4
While I hate to use the all too common argument “what if this was happening to (fill in the blank). I think China's treatment of its Muslim population is a clear example “what if this was happening to Christians or Jews”.
6
And yet there is no B.D.S. movement in America against China. Of course that would involve B.D.S. people actually giving up something -- their cell phones, computers, and other China-made gadgets -- unlike their opposition to Israeli policies. As usual, talk is cheap.
Take your pick as to whether this is:
1/ blatant hypocrisy
2/ anti-Semitism
3/ Musilms aren't worth giving up one's cell phone
4/ all of the above
11
Congresswomen Omar and Tlaib who are anti-Israel and pro-BDS and who said they wanted to visit Israel (but without the customary Congressional meeting with the Prime Minister) should visit China and visit the camps.
I have been very, very disappointed about their silence for it suggests a reality that the really don't care about Muslims but only about Israeli bashing.
24
Maybe Trump can make a phone call.
He’s good at that.
5
That phone call would be a congratulatory call. Trump would think it is a good idea based on his speeches.
1
Is all this farce in flirting with China for it's financial offerings worth the trampling of human rights? Ought all this be just transactional, 'a la Trump', in frank disregard to our humanity? Shame on us if that is the case. Just because Trump is most comfortable with the despots of the world, especially when self-enrichment is on the line, doesn't mean we ought to go along, does it?
6
What nations of the world do not themselves 'incarcerate' vast numbers of citizens who share ethnic or religious identity?
The U.S., with its percentage of young black males in 'the system', has little moral high-ground to protest facilities that the inhabitants of Rikers and other U.S. racial 're-habilitation facilities' dance in unison.
China's treatment of indigenous minorities contrasts favorably to the U.S.' treatment of native Americans and recent immigrants.
Glass houses.
9
If what you say is true, the right response is not to give both the US and China a pass, but to oppose both.
7
@john
Classic "tu quoque" argument. Nothing about what you said makes China's actions acceptable. Agreed that US has problems.
8
@john wrote: "What nations of the world do not themselves 'incarcerate' vast numbers of citizens who share ethnic or religious identity?"
Most do not.
4
The West and especially the United States have been the protector(s) of Islam. They have been safeguarding the religious rights of Muslim countries such as Libya, Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan, Iran, and Palestine.
In contrast, China an evil totalitarian dictatorship where people are always repressed. One million Muslims? Try 10 billion! Satellite images, personal interviews, and anonymous sources have already confirmed that 10 billion Muslims have suffered in China and 99.9% have already been harvested for their organs and killed thereafter. China does not want you to know that, but the mounting evidence is irrefutable. Because only the West knows the real truth on the ground, it needs to refuse China’s invite to visit these “camps.”
China bad! Keep up the good work, New York Times!
7
Please provide the mounting evidence, if possible. Thank you.
5
@Zhanwen Chen Lol there aren't even 10 billion people on earth much less 10 billion Muslims in China. Not sure if your comment is sarcasm or not but it doesn't make much sense either way... Please try again.
7
@David H
He wrote: "...confirmed that 10 billion Muslims have suffered in China and 99.9% have already been harvested for their organs and killed thereafter."
Clearly, he's being facetious.
6
Not saying USA is as bad as China, certainly not. But the world has ignored several bad moves on American part for the sake of preserving economical ties. It is, unfortunately, to be expected that gigantic economies (US and China) get a lot of free passes regarding their actions (internal or external), since the other nations (usually much smaller) can't afford to displease them.
What China is doing is despicable, but so is our inmate population and our prison system, and there's no significant amount of external criticism regarding it.
15
Just stop. Every last person in our prison system was found guilty by a jury of his peers after due process of a law passed by a democratically elected government. How about in China?
30
This will still happen even if China has an elected government. In fact, the government did it to appease the Han-majority.
2
The gap in your argument is “due process of law.” It is undeniable that far more African Americans are jailed than whites per capita. So, unless you assert that Blacks are by nature more criminal than whites, it follows that “due process of law” is very flawed in the US.
As bad, the US has by far the highest incarceration rate in the developed world, if not the whole world.
Yes, of course the US today is not as bad as China. Aside from maybe N Korea, no one on earth is as bad as China. So a very low bar.
The pity is that the world needs a strong champion of human rights, but with its history of slavery, Jim Crow, over-incarceration, and racially biased incarceration, the US is just not a credible advocate for liberty elsewhere in the world.
3
Can you perhaps also provide in depth articles, perhaps a Sunday magazine feature, documenting the horrendous conditions and total lack of rights that non-Muslims must endure in Muslim majority nations ? Thanks in advance.
113
@Marc This is the very definition of confirmation bias.
6
If what you imply is true, the right response is not to give the CCP a pass. It is to oppose mistreatment wherever it exists.
6
Mic drop, discussion over...you must be a joy to have conversations with. Please understand that no issue is black and white, despite how simple one’s mind may want it to be. Making statements like this may at best help you cope with this injustice and at worst justify concentration camps for you, but it doesn’t change the fact that it’s happening in reality and we deserve better from our leaders. If a blind eye can be turned to this, then the same can be done to our southern border (as Chinese leaders pointed out) and non-Muslims in Muslim countries (as you pointed out). The discussion has to start somewhere. It can’t begin and end with “well but what about...” Most parents of toddlers will agree.
9
This article doesn't address the long-term effects of a forced cultural assimilation program of "more than one million Turkic Muslims in China’s western region of Xinjiang". It only focuses on one specific problem in the present. That is, according to Wang Yi: “The education and training centers are schools that help the people free themselves from terrorism and extremism and acquire useful skills.”
Perhaps we can gain some understanding about the future of these people from the enforced cultural assimilation of Native American tribes in the United States, during the last century, using Indian boarding schools. One example was The Carlisle Indian Industrial School in Carlisle, Pennsylvania (1879–1918). This was an attempt to forcibly assimilate Native American children from 140 tribes into the majority culture of the United States. The school was administered by Henry Pratt who believed that all traces of native culture, language and religion should be eliminated from the children at the school.
Similar schools also existed in Australia for the native Aborigine population. This was the subject of the 2002 drama film 'Rabbit-Proof Fence', based on the book 'Follow the Rabbit-Proof Fence' by Doris Pilkington Garimara.
In the United States, the Indian boarding schools were a fantastic failure. I wonder what makes the Chinese think they'll do any better?
3
My way of viewing this is that this is the Chinese way of dealing social unrest and civic disturbances recalling separatists violence against other civilians in the past. Let's take a look at the US way.
The US launched 3 wars in the Middle East and dislocated millions of refugees into neighboring countries and in western Europe. Which way would you rather prefer ? refugees in other coungtries but not in the US you might say.
So this is not that simple as this article or these comments in this column might imagine.
6
money talks, human rights walk.
12
It is indeed fascinating that our brothers and sisters in Saudi Arabia and Gulf States -for whom the US is nothing more than an endless supply of mercenaries to fight their petty squabbles- are always silent on the big ticket Muslim issues such as what is happening in China and Burma/Myanmar and assiduously avoid any engagement in assisting their brethren fleeing the horrors of Syria. It is equally interesting how those same refugees always turn left towards Europe rather than right towards the Gulf when seeking help and safety. Our “allies” in the Middle East are nothing more than feckless hypocrites and quite frankly unworthy of anyone’s respect and China is fully aware that it can get away with just about anything without a peep from Riyadh or Dubai/Kuwait/Doha/etc...
37
@PMIGuy The Arabs are and have long been a TRIBAL society. Nothing to do with religion - it is just a crutch to strengthen their tribal positions.
8
We will never learn. It is amazing we survive as a species. If we ever get past this point in our development where greed, religious conflict, power and willingness to commit genocide for these things, it will be amazing. I wonder if some of these comments are actually from real US citizens. If they are, it is reflective of the poison that the far right have been able to spread. "China is a strong country. Impressive." Not surprising considering we have been caging children and doing our best to deport millions for political gain. We have taken a nasty turn.
So disturbing ....
2
@JDH I have read that humans were designed this way so that they would never overwhelm the earth.
China is actively spreading it's version of the one party surveillance / loyalty state. It is doing so with the willing support of tech firms based in democracies like Israel and the United States. The authoritarian governments of the world are watching and copying while democracies are embracing this process for profit. Why would the worlds reaction to the concentration camps of China be any less complicit in enabling state sanctioned oppression than any other form of oppression. It is after all about wealth, power and control. In China's actions all three are represented and make good selling points to move and exploit economically weaker countries to their point of view. This aspect of China's rise is the most troubling one & the least understood or addressed. We will rue this lack of foresight one day.
10
Perhaps the US would have greater moral standing to comment on human rights issues in other countries, if it didn't have the highest incarceration rates in the world.
6
@Steve. Perhaps we need fewer criminals.
3
@Steve There is a vast difference between incarcerating criminals and incarcerating a group based on their religion.
3
No matter what Nixon and Kissinger’s intent was, they provided legitimacy to the regime in China and weakened our position in terms of speaking out against human rights abuse ever after. Subsequent western governments, encouraged by the prospect of trade and the prospect of making money out of the development of the then impoverished nation basically sold theirs and our souls to the devil itself (Communist Party) and now we are reliant upon them and unable seemingly to roll back the clock to a time when we had the high moral ground. China’s continued military and financial growth is our future dystopian nightmare.
12
@Snidely Snodgrass
It was Bill Clinton who go China into the WTO.
6
The world is abandoning the Muslims of Xinjiang in much the same way as it abandoned the indigenous population of Tibet so many decades ago. It seems morality is easily forfeited when money is involved. Then again, why don't we hear even a peep from the jihadists and Salafists who so ardently condemn the West for its mistreatment of the Muslim community? If the U.S. or the U.K. began to incarcerate Muslims for the crime of worshiping their god does anyone think no outcry would follow?
32
@Stu, it’s anti-white racism that causes the world to scream and attack when the West does something but completely ignore it when China does it on a much grander scale.
3
Yup. China has crushed dissent in Tibet, and squashed its culture and the use of the Tibetan language in schools and government. In the last couple of decades, they’ve remade the cultural landscape by inundating Tibet with Han Chinese, offering incentives in housing and employment to get people to move there. Now Tibet is essentially Chinese, with a suppressed minority of native Tibetans. This was accomplished despite loud noises from the West, and a long and vociferous human rights campaign worldwide.
Now they’re bulldozing the Uighur culture in even more dramatic fashion, and there is far less protest. Why? The Uighurs are Muslim, thus clearly far more dangerous than those innocent Tibetan Buddhists. I’m no great fan of Islamic extremism, but to see an entire section of society culturally obliterated in service to Chinese totalitarian impulses doesn’t sit well either.
Where is the world’s outrage?
12
Everyone is so focused on who can hate Trump the most, China is getting away with some of the most horrific human rights violations in the last decade.
5
Money, money, money! Greed! All this talk about helping others translates to "I'll help" as long as it doesn't hurt the bottom line, or maybe actually improve my bottom line. How sad for a world that supposedly believes in helping your "neighbor". Everyone is focused on making sure they don't get left behind, or making sure they go to the head of the pack.
2
It's interesting to watch the response of nations who have citizens or their ancestors who have undergone this type of crime against humanity. Or not.
2
Despite making up close to 5% of the global population, the U.S. has nearly 25% of the world's prison population.There are 2.2 million people in the nation’s prisons and jails—a 500% increase over the last 40 years. Changes in law and policy, not changes in crime rates, explain most of this increase. The results are overcrowding in prisons and fiscal burdens on states, despite increasing evidence that large-scale incarceration is not an effective means of achieving public safety.
Hundreds of new criminal statutes appear on the lawbooks every year. According to Silverglate, the average busy professional commits three felonies every day–any of which an ambitious and creative prosecutor could turn into an indictment. Seemingly innocuous activities like using the telephone or e-mail at work, or posting information on Web sites could potentially lead to a federal offense if your tone strikes someone as threatening.
Most of the prison population is made of blacks and other minorities.
The world stays silent possible for the same reasons they are silent on some of the injustices that take place here.
6
@Concern Citizen Those numbers are the "official" numbers released by governments. For example, the millions in Xinjiang and not in "prison" according to Chinese statistics - they are in voluntary reprogramming camps.
6
I suppose we always thought that economics had the most power.
The United States began its engagement with China under Nixon. When China shifted its economy from a Soviet style planned system to open markets and capitalist production the US went from engagement to open embrace.
American companies were salivating over access to China's enormous market. This process was furthered when the US sponsored China's entry into the World Trade Organization.
But during this entire period China has been a one party, authoritarian state. China has a long history of human rights violations that we have ignored.
So is our sudden interest in human rights in China a real commitment to human rights, or a cynical use of this noble principle simply to gain political leverage?
For the victims of human rights violations any support is welcomed. But we need to insure that our government adheres to the international standards for human rights, whether pursued abroad or at home.
In our globalized, interdependent world, nothing less will suffice.
4
I'm no fan of any particular religious group that seeks political power. However anytime the Uighurs are the subject, the reader should be reminded that it remains very unclear how much effort the CIA devoted/devotes to causing trouble in that region.
6
@rocky vermont
"However anytime the Uighurs are the subject, the reader should be reminded that it remains very unclear how much effort the CIA devoted/devotes to causing trouble in that region."
Or, maybe, the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia and some of its wealthiest citizens.
America, China, France, India, Israel, Portugal, Russia, Spain and the United Kingdom are all actively vehemently anti- Islamic Muslim nation states.
America has little or no influence on China, lndia and Russia.
3
@Blackmamba
India also happens to have the second largest Muslim population in the world and there have been a lot of successful ones in India, there are superstar muslim actors in movies, they had a few muslim presidents and they have muslim millionaires. If India was anti Islam how does this happen? How could they make a muslim actor a super star in the country?
8
@Blackmamba What evidence can you provide to justify putting America on your list? We have almost 3.5 Muslims living here, mostly assimilated into mainstream society, and involved in state and national government even including the military. Not only that, CAIR and other Muslim Brotherhood affiliated organizations are active throughout the nation. It's patently ridiculous to claim America is "vehemently anti-Islamic".
7
@Gerry
I suppose he means that their foreign policy is 'anti-Muslim' whatever that means - since all of those countries have significant Muslim minorities living within their borders. Odd that he would include Russia which has generally warm relations with Muslim countries but internally represses its Muslin minority - far more than the US. Of course he (or she) doesn't recognize the anti-Western foreign policy of many Muslim-majority countries such as Turkey, Iran or Saudi Arabia.
1
`It was an about-face from a decade ago, when he [Erdogan] said the Uighurs there suffered from, “simply put, genocide” at the hands of the Chinese government.'
Mr. Erdogan has proven himself to be an unprincipled, unscrupulous, corrupt hypocrite on many occasions in the last decade. Part of the Chinese financial aid to Turkey naturally finds its way to Erdogan's offshore bank accounts; in return he can play deaf, dumb and blind for any and all Chinese crimes against the Uighurs in Xinjiang.
The populism of people like Erdogan, Netanyahu, Orban and Trump seems to live off of deeply-ingrained corruption.
12
@JB
Please point us to evidence of Trump's deeply ingrained corruption. Where are his offshore bank accounts? We need to know.
Or maybe you're confusing our American tolerance for Chinese oppression with Pelosi's and Schumer's appearance as "leaders." How did they get their tens of millions of wealth while serving in Congress making less than $200K per year? Do you think they care about the Uighur camps?
Trump was very wise to advise the new President of Ukraine about the predatory behavior of China! Bravo Mr. President!
8
As a person who grew up in a Christian religious household, decided to leave mysticism behind in adult life, and found doing so greatly improved my mental health...
...I am so torn on this.
I automatically feel optimistic when I hear about people deprogramming themselves from religion. Because I know the benefits.
But I understand that this is involuntary and that stings. And I am respectful of tradition and difference.
Though there is still a part of me that wonders about Uighurs who testify that they now see life through a new lens, whether it is not true? It was true for me.
And before anyone says, they are just being reprogrammed to look up to Xi......well at least he is provable real.
11
As a German, who realizes how important China is for an export-heavy nation like Germany, I understand why world leaders don't want to run into any retaliations from China for speaking their mind. Nonetheless I, for one, will never accept China as a leader in anything related to society or ethics with all of these horrendous developments going on in this so successful, yet off-putting country
18
@Timo
do you accept the US as the world leader? The US government has started and/or be involved in wars more than any other countries in the world in the last two decades. Where is the basis if not for ideology?
1
China must be held accountable for its treatment of Muslim citizens. Furthermore, the 24 hour surveillance, mass incarceration in these detention centers and systematic repression are likely to create the violent terrorism China fears. I am not buying anything made in China until they reverse course. Lastly, the world leaders who have remained silent on this issue should be ashamed of themselves. It’s unacceptable.
121
@WomanofColor
Good luck with "not buying anything made in China." How exactly are you going to know? They have been known to ship goods to other countries, have their products relabeled as having been produced in that country and sold to unsuspecting people. Is it possible to police the entire world? Just asking. I have no answer.
21
@D.J. Thompson Actually I have been quite successful - other than electronics you can find everything manufactured elsewhere.
6
@WomanofColor
Of course China will not be held accountable. China is a gargantuan economy that can crush most other countries through its economic policies (only the United States has a comparable economy). Contrary to common belief, China is no longer as dependent on exports as it used to be - much of its economic heft comes from internal investment and internal consumption. Many countries will not risk their trading relationship with China to speak out against its purported bad treatment of Uighurs and other minorities.
5
Without strong and steady American leadership, there is no one to stand up against Chinese bullying. No one seem to care much about Europeans for many decades now. The Muslims in those (practically) autocratic Islamic countries are more interested to collude with communist China to get financial and political support than to protect human rights or even Muslim rights there in China. That's so strange considering the fact that these Muslim majority countries start shouting and raise the issue in every possible international forums like UN, even for totally justified reason to enforce democracy and rule of laws in non-Muslim majority countries like Israel, India, UK, USA etc, when they think definition of human rights must change when Muslims are majority vs when they are in minority. China and other cruel autocratic regimes are so welcome for them .
8
Without strong and steady American leadership, there is no one to stand up against Chinese bullying. No one seem to care much about Europeans for many decades now. The Muslims in those (practically) autocratic Islamic countries are more interested to collude with communist China to get financial and political support than to protect human rights or even "Muslim rights" there in China. That's so strange considering the fact that these Muslim majority countries start shouting and raise the issue in every possible international forums like UN, even for totally justified reason to enforce democracy and rule of laws in non-Muslim majority countries like Israel, India, UK, USA etc, when they think definition of human rights must change when Muslims are majority vs when they are in minority.
China and other cruel autocratic regimes are so welcome for them. Probably they see China and other communist dictators as partners to oppose liberal democracies and with a desire to establishing a global order dominated by dictators which would justify their own regime and abuse of minorities.
1
Hmm. I wonder why Alexandria-Ocasio Cortez, Ayanna Presley, Rashida Tlaib, Ilan Omar, and the other members of a Congress who support BDS are not calling for sanctions against China.
61
@Liz morrill
Ilhan Omar, 23 May 2019:
What is happening in China is pure cruelty. The oppression of Uighur Muslims is reminiscent of some of the worst crimes against humanity in history. We in the U.S. must fully hold them accountable.
That took 20 seconds to Google - instead of 'wondering' you could quickly look it up yourself and find that your assumptions are simply wrong.
7
We humans are the only ones capable to deliberately hurt other humans, other species and our natural resources with no guilt, no regrets...
Perhaps it's time for another Earth extinction... because very, very few are doing the good things that we should all do...
2
Xinjiang borders the part of Kashmir controlled by Pakistan.
But Prime Minister Imran Khan claimed he knew nothing of what's going on inside Xinjiang when pressed by a journalist earlier this year.
After being pressed further, he's now claiming he's spoken to Beijing privately on the issue.
China has invested $65 billion as part of the China-Pakistan Economic Corridor. Pakistan's debt-to-GDP ratio is also climbing.
Over 1 million Uyghurs have been detained in a Chinese province adjacent to Pakistan-Occupied Kashmir, and Imran Khan only talks of "genocide" by a secular democracy like India?
Anything for the investments from Beijing...
46
@Jack
Imran Khan represents the slave nation of Pakistan to it's master, China.
No wonder, the suffering of Muslims in China doesn't merit a mention in his speech at the United Nations.
12
Don't worry. To Pakistanis, China is an "all-weather friend", an "iron brother".
And remember China-Pakistan friendship is "higher than Himalayas, deeper than ocean, sweeter than honey, and stronger than steel".
So much for the meaningless rhetoric...
10
@Jack
"Xinjiang borders the part of Kashmir controlled by Pakistan", have you checked your map recently?
Religious extremism is a real problem, in places like Kashmir, Israel and other middle eastern countries. How has a soft approach taken by a lot of these countries helped? In Kashmir it has been going on for 20 years costing a lot of lives. Maybe this is the least bloodless approach to take to quell this kind of insurgency, the alternative being acquiescing to the draconian Sharia law.
26
If these were Christians the U.S. would be threatening military action.
3
@D
Actually, worldwide, Christians are the world's most repressed minority. But who pays attention to that.
18
@D
Christians are oppressed as minorities in many parts of the world.
7
One might ask where the Muslim world is?
What it seems to boil down to is that Arabs don't get involved unless Arabs are involved.
The article cites a Saudi journalist ignoring the situation.
One might think that non-Arab Turkish Mr. Erdogan would protest, after all the Uighurs are of Turkic ethnicity, but not worth it to take on China for him. Too much money at stake.
What about non-Arab Iran? But the Uighurs are mostly Sunni and Iran is Shiite, no need for them to get involved. And they need China's money.
The exception in the article is non-Arab Muslim Malaysia:
"The trips do not always go as planned. Two reports — one by a Malaysian diplomat".
So if apart from Malaysia, the Muslim world cannot be bothered, why should it be difficult to keep the issue under wraps.
Should not the Muslim world be up in arms?
The situation is similar regarding the Ruhingha in Mayanmer. Is the Muslim world up in arms? But since Mayanmer has less clout than China, the world takes an interest.
Seems like hypocrisy and indifference reign.
63
@Joshua Schwartz "One might ask where the Muslim world is? What it seems to boil down to is that Arabs don't get involved unless Arabs are involved."
These are two different things. The most populous majority Muslim country (Indonesia) is not Arab. "Muslim world" does not equal "Arabs". For that matter, not all Arabs are Muslim (Maronite Christians, Mizrahi Jews, etc etc.)
1
@NYCLady Did you read the comment? I think I made that quite clear re Turkey, Iran and Malaysia.
1
@NYCLady. While it has become fashionable in certain circles to claim that Mizrachi Jews are Arab, that’s political spin. That is not how they self-identifying and that is not how Arabs view them. The point of making the claim is to create spurious distinctions within the Jewish community to underpin the fallacy of "white" Jews. Non-Jews lecturing Jews about who they "really" are is not a novel phenomenon.
A simpler observation points to the claim's absurdity. Since Mizrahi Jews represent about half the Jewish population of Israel, Israel must already be an “Arab” state when you then add the 20% of the population that is self-identifying as Israeli-Arab. So, either problem solved or let’s admit the elephant in the room, that there is a large Islamic anti-Jewish component that drives the conflict.
3
What's new? All members of the international community are to blame really. However, I'm especially critical of members of the Organisation of Islamic Cooperation (OIC) with regard to issues like the one in Xinjiang.
On one hand, OIC members claim to stand for islamic solidarity. And yet, when Saudi-led airstrikes kill civilians in Yemen, they remain conspicuously silent.
I believe they are sectarian-minded in that they only criticise non-Muslim entities such as Myanmar's government (during the Rohingya crisis). OIC member Pakistan also accuses India of "genocide" in Kashmir against Muslims, even though Pakistan's non-secular constitution contains laws which punish religious minorities for blasphemy even in 2019.
Of course, these countries remain silent silent whenever there are economic incentives. China is too large a buyer of oil from Gulf countries. In Pakistan, it has invested $65 billion as part of the China-Pakistan Economic Corridor. Little wonder then why Prime Minister Imran Khan claimed he knew nothing of what was going on in Xinjiang when pressed by a journalist earlier this year. When pressed again on his current US visit, he claimed he had spoken to China privately about the issue.
Over 1 million detained in a Chinese province adjacent to Pakistan-Occupied Kashmir, and Imran Khan only talks of "genocide" in Indian-administered Kashmir.
Anything for the investments from Beijing...
23
Why is the left, at a drop of hat, willing to boycott an American company for the slightest impropriety, often just an optical faux pas (some tangentially related owner raised money for Trump!), but unwilling to boycott China for mass torture and genocide. Interesting.
67
@DRS don't forget the Israeli boycott.
1
HK is a good example if the government cannot do anything effective to stop the violence. Human rights is important, but so is the livelihood and security of the most silent and vast majority population. Xinjiang is no exception.
I am sure all the government is doing everything they can to handle the tough problems at hand. Why do we build immigration camps along the border? Why can't we find and humane way to deal with poor immigrants? Because we do not have a better way to do it. Reality stink.
3
@Usok
Here try this:
"Why can't we find and humane way to deal with poor immigrants?
"Because we don't care enough to support a better way to do it, and we see nothing amiss with shoving people into concentration camps (which is exactly, technically what we have) and leaving them there.
"Which is all good, speaking Americanly, because corporations are making billions from providing substandard housing, brutal but supremely efficient supervision, and living conditions we wouldn't inflict on stray dogs."
Better, yes?
You are right about one thing: our reality stink.
2
Several years ago it occurred to me that in the eyes of the press and many others, Tibet was now a part of China, with no further mention of the invasion in 1950. This is not China's first "re-education" of an ethnic minority. We didn't stop it then. Nobody in power seems to be stopping it now.
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@Left out yeah Tibet is like China just like California or New Mexico is a part of the US. You forget how whent he US was still a bunch of pilgrims shivering on a rock, Tibet has been a part of Chinese dynasty for more than 300 years since. How about the Chinese start demanding California or Texas separate and become its own country. These states seem so "oppressed" in the US. Better yet, the liberals should just baracade themselves into a new country. Carve up the US piece by piece based on ideology, skin color, sexual orientation.
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@Left out
Why does Tibet need to be independent? Since the left despises ethno-states then Tibet ought to be satisfied being part of a multi-ethnic, multi-racial Chinese empire.
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What if they are right? What if they are saving lives of innocent victims from terrorism? What if they are preventing parts of their country from becoming another Pakistan or any city in Iraq? What’s the difference in “brainwashing” in either organized religion or organized government? What if they are doing this to save their country from a perceived evil? Is it wrong then?
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Wow. Religion is a human right. We evolved with religious beliefs. Oppressing an entire group to prevent a tiny fraction of potential bad actors is simply oppression by a majority.
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Good points...however, can you point to any terrorist acts having been committed by these people prior to institution of the re-education camps? Conversely, can you think of examples where conservatives resort to religious extremism and even violence after escaping from under the thumb of secularism?
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It continues to amaze me that such small numbers of people are able to impose their perceptions and preferred practices upon so many simply because of lines drawn across geographic regions that have labels signifying commonalities or shared interests attached to them.
Intimidation, manipulation, and force are not likely to win willing, enthusiastic support. Eventually, what goes around comes around: it's merely a matter of time.
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There's nothing anyone can do except stop buying their stuff (not happening for a variety of reasons). They're now too big, too strong, too influential and to top it off they don't care what anyone thinks of what they do.
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But Chinese leaders crave international respectability. Be vocal and deny it to them.
Shame on the world to stand by and allow China to conduct such gross human rights violations. I challenge large US corporations, who have ties with China to boycott their suppliers. Oh wait, sorry, profits come before people. Shareholder wealth comes before the human rights and dignity of all other people. How can I forget?
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@jen
Not only the Chinese perfecting its surveillance technology, they are selling to to other countries with autocratic tendencies. I sense a very dark future for democracy and human rights.
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@jen The president of the USA is standing up to China. Maybe folks should support him.
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@nonmoneyd, no Trump is not "standing up to China", he's posturing for political profit and could care less about this or any other human rights abuse. There's a difference between "optics" and reality & the only reality Trump does is the phony TV kind.
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It’s always about the money. It’s amazing how countries will endorse the worst kinds of human suffering in the name of money and investment. Our whole economic system is upside down. We are killing the earth in our never ending quest for money and power. This system cannot last forever as the earth will eventually act out against us and destroy our species. It’s incredible to think that we are literally selling out the very place we live for a buck. It’s disgusting and China now leads the way. A communist totalitarian surveillance state that brain washes its citizens and watches their every move. Of course other countries look the other way: it’s about the money. And that will be our downfall as a species. Because money is the root of all evil, especially climate change.
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@Mike L I'll start off by admitting I got this from a friend who lives abroad, so just a grain of salt, please.
He told me that China is leading in surveillance technology and is selling their systems to many interested countries around the globe. The gulf countries are setting up very sophisticated systems to keep an eye on their people. So, if I am right here, this surveillance monster state thing is spreading.
On the other hand I heard that California outlawed the use of facial recognition surveillance systems. So the growing power of the surveillance state isn't happening everywhere. This enlightened move on California's part gives me some hope, but not much.
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@Mike L Ah yes, the only possible reasons that 20 Muslim countries supported China’s Xinjiang policies and and none criticized them at the UN:
1. Unlike the West, Muslim countries are not true to the Muslim faith (especially Saudi Arabia) and the West is the true defender of Islam worldwide. Turkic nations like Tajikstan and Turkmenistan are race traitors unlike the West who again, is the true protector of Turkic peoples.
2. They are authoritarian.
3. They are hostage to China economically.
The list are:
Algeria, Bahrain, Burkina Faso, Cameroon, Comoros, Egypt, Gabon, Kuwait, Nigeria, Oman, Pakistan, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Somalia, Sudan, Syria, Tajikistan, Togo, Turkmenistan, and UAE.
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Thank you, New York Times, for doing this important reporting and shining a light on this horrible practice by China.
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Where is the outcry and collective action over the plight of the Yemeni, Rohingya and other Muslims being slaughtered. Even comparing the U.S. to China you don't see Chinese intervening militarily in the likes of Iraq and Afghanistan causing many civilian casualties. We also certainly used our diplomatic and economic might to coerce other countries to toe our line during our 'military adventures'.
Also one simple reason why the Muslim world generally give the Chinese a pass is because China doesn't have a history of the Crusades. It is therefore much easier for the Chinese to convince the Muslim world that their actions are because of terrorism and secession. When someone's religion is being attacked, it is personal, otherwise it is just some people you don't know on the other side of the planet.
That isn't to say China is right to do what they do. However we should be setting the right example for the world. Otherwise it just reeks of hypocrisy.
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@Sean "...China doesn't have a history of the Crusades." as though a sign of moral superiority. This is another example of the selective and biased teaching of history in our schools. Apparently not taught was the rapid Muslim military conquests and occupation of north Africa, most of the Middle East and southern Europe. And that nearly 500 years of occupation precipitated the Crusades. Very simply, no Muslim occupation, no Crusades.
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@Gerry
You miss the point. Whether the Crusaders is justified is besides the point. The point is the lack of religious conflict between Muslims and China historically.
Please keep this on the radar and in our free press. That’s how things change.
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