How about we let the Saudis defend themselves. We have other things to focus on, like shifting our economy away from petroleum, so we can shift our focus away from caring about oil production anywhere.
3
The US must protect the Wahhabi, the folks that brought us 9/11. They live largely in Central Saudi Arabia, and attacks from more moderate Islamic Shiite countries (like Iran) against our fundamentalist Islamic Sunni friends (who only occasionally fly planes into our buildings) cannot be tolerated. Peace could possibly break out in the Middle East and that would be devastating to vital US National Security Interests (i.e. the ARAMCO initial public offering)!
1
The arrows are pointing right back to Trump’s mentally-challenged pullout from the Iran nuclear deal, and his war hawks’ subsequent “cocked-up and loaded” determination to convince the Dear Leader that only maximum aggression would stop the regime from preparing for nuclear war with the U.S. and Israel. Every sane advisor and expert in the region dismissed that as spurious and predicted that shredding the deal and ramping up hostilities would be a lose-lose policy. Iran is a brutal and ruthless regime, but the country has survived for more than 5,000 years. Trumpistan, not so much.
1
If Trump declares war before and exclusive to any deliberation of Congress, it will be one more step toward our becoming a dictatorship.
1
I’m sorry, we are defending Saudi interests why? #MBS
2
Don’t worry about a conventional war, open your eyes to the real threat of a global nuclear holocaust and the end of 7.7 billion humans on earth.
On Sept. 24, 1996, the United States and the world's other major nuclear powers signed a treaty to end all testing and development of nuclear weapons. Do you believe all nations having nuclear capabilities are being good boys and girls?
Man will self destruct whether by global warming climate or a global nuclear holocaust. May God protect us from our selves.
I've heard of the ultimate "doomsday bomb". Humans use most of their resources for their preoccupation with destruction, and that has impeded man's ability to cure diseases such as Alzheimer's, Ebola, Polio, Lupus Erythematosus, Influenza, Creutzfeldt-Jakob Disease, Diabetes, HIV/AIDS, Asthma, Cancer, and the common cold.
When I read the replies in the NYT I become more than saddened, actually alarmed, at the incredible loss of objectivity. The hatred of and vitriol toward Trump has become a singular focus, obscuring any reasonable discussion of facts. I do understand and agree with most of the criticisms of Trump. But this should not determine our entire discourse.
Here, for example, most of the comments are either on the untrustworthiness of Trump or on the fact that the US also sells lethal arms. While bother are legitimate and important issues, they avoid the actual issue at hand. If the attack had been by the Houtis, then the analogy of the US also supplying arms to others would be relevant. But I nitial reports (admittedly requiring further investigation) suggests that an attack on Saudi Arabia was launched directly from Iran or possibly Iraq, but NOT from the direction of Yemen. If true, this is very different from an attack by Houtis, who just happen to have been armed by Iran. And yet all the comments here are so singularly anti-Trump or anti-military intervention that they are blind to or deliberately avoid this critical distinction. A direct attack by Iran upon Saudi Arabia, if proven true, would be a a major escalation well beyond the proxy war that they are involved with in Yemen. It would be similar to USSR attacking LA during the height of the proxy war in Vietnam.
The myopic hatred of Trump is sadly precluding appropriate consideration of this potentially huge escalation.
1
Mr. Trump withdrew from the Iran nuclear deal based on a lie that Iran had been cheating on it. U.N. monitors and even U.S. intelligence were convinced of Iran’s compliance. Now, based on Saudi Arabia's allegation that Iran was responsible for the attack on its oil facilities, he is preparing to go to war with it. He does it, despite the Houthis’ claim that they had carried out the attack.
Yes, what the Houthis did is sickening. But can Trump hold Iran responsible for it simply because they may have used Iranian equipment in the attack? What about the U.S.-supplied equipment Saudi Arabia has been using in its bombing campaign in Yemen that has killed thousands of civilians? After all, the ongoing war in Yemen, fought by the proxies of Saudi Arabia and Iran is the root cause of all this.
Trump also says that he wants to avoid a war with Iran. If he is serious, he shouldn’t be basing his decision on what Saudi Arabia, especially its crown prince, says. Lying comes to the crown prince as naturally as it does to Trump. For a change, Trump should trust the findings of U.S. intelligence over that of Saudi Arabia or Russia. It more capable of finding out who the culprit is than any entity in the world.
Also, Trump should bear in mind that the starting point of the mess we are witnessing in the Middle East now is the war George W. Bush launched in Iraq 17 years ago. He did it based on a lie Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction. He, too, ignored intelligence findings.
The American people must not stand idly by while the U.S. gets sucked and suckered into another war. We do not exist for the express use of empowering and enriching American elites and foreign powers.
3
45, our Military is NOT a MERCENARY FORCE for sale to the highest bidder. If you really want to avoid war, NEGOTIATE. You say you are a GREAT NEGOTIATOR, PROVE IT!!! Don't bluster about how great our Military is, we know it. We paid for it, not just with our taxes but with the blood of Americans. Something you and no one else in your family has ever done. Don't shed it, for money or oil. American BLOOD is not for sale. Remember, "Blessed are the PEACE MAKERS."
1
Sifting through all of the mixed incoherence coming from Trump, it seems that Trump and Pompeo are trying to figure out a way to use the Saudis as a proxy in military action against Iran, with limited firepower support from the US.
That way Trump can feed to his base, "War? Not us; we're just supporting our Saudi friends."
Trump says it "appears that Iran was responsible for the attack on the Saudi Arabian oil facilities, but he wants to avoid a military conflict with Tehran, while playing down the jolt to the global oil market?"
That's like your kid ruining tonight's dinner by pulling all the food off the stove onto the floor, and instead of scolding him or spanking him, you're like "well, let's wait until your father gets home, we discuss it, then we'll make a phone call to a child psychologist to get some advice, I've got to consult the chapter on this in Dr. Spock's book, and of course we'll have to call Dr. Phil, because he had a show on this very topic about a month ago......"
Fact is... Trump has been bullying Iran on the playground and Iran finally pulled a knife.
Can we please elect someone who has a backbone and not a Twitter account?
America is playing the, “who done it” game, used in determining possible perpetuators of crime. An old America investigative strategy is: “who has more to gain” from the deed.
As I am an aficionado of crime stories, my suggestion would be that either America has bombed the Saudi refinery or the Saudis themselves have done it.
After the Emiratis withdrew, the Saudi do not know how to extricate themselves from the pickle they have themselves got into. To create a reason for exiting, they might have bombed their own refinery. However, as they are incapable of even that dastardly deed, they might have asked America to perform this FALSE-FLAG operation.
Comments here very discouraging, but follow the narrative set by the NYTimes and liberal media. I believe the media would love war if that meant Trump didn't get re-elected. Would rather see the US go down and global economy crash, if that meant Trump lost an election. But, what will they do when Dems win? It's not about Trump, we're talking about a potential war between Shiite and Sunni Muslim ideologies - will not turn out well. Time for readers to consider the reality of their 'never Trump' narrative 24/7; we do not want war, but it's possible the Middle East does.
Why do we care? They didn't bomb us. Saudi's problem.
Has the coincidence of this happening just after Bolton leaves (is fired from) office? Could he have set this all in motion and then leave for deniability purposes? No one wanted a war with Iran or (fill -in the blank) more than John Bolton, and now Trump has his Wag the Dog moment or his "I don't want war" moment.
This is not our war. This has never been our war. We should never have been arming our proxies except that if we didn't, one of our adversaries would and then where would we be? Then again, look at what happened to the Russians/Soviets when they went into Afghanistan. If you want to accept war as a reality in this crazy world, then maybe we should let some other country arm and support these cockamamie countries and leaders and let them take the costs of endless wars - death, destruction, rape, money, and ultimately the need to try and rebuild the country just destroyed.
Let’s see how many Americans are the Republicans willing to sacrifice for the House of Saud.
4
@Andrew
How may years you want to look back to start the counting of our Saudi wars? And we still continue to fight wars for them (or at least arm them) despite their leading role in 9/11.
Just what do the Saudis have on multiple layers of American Presidents?
Selling arms to kids and minors or mentally challenged are illegal in most places. Selling arms to all none-democratic countries should be illegal. All civilized people try to stop selling arms to all. If Iran cannot have the nuclear bomb for self-defense why Saudi or Israelis or any close allies of the US should have any gun, to begin with. It is absolutely insane to sell guns to Saudis which cannot win a simple war with the poorest Arab country in the world, Yemen, then they need the guns against Iran a much bigger and powerful country than themselves? World would be a safer place if Iran and the US make peace and Iran provide security for all of the mid-east and 100,000 US soldiers return home.
6
Once again, Trump wants the thrill of rattling the saber without having to use it. Next: he proclaims, "They backed down. I won. You have to love me." And on to creating the next crisis without resolving this one - one actually probably not of his own making, at least directly.
2
This is our subservience to Israel again. They want the ME cleared out and weakened so they can expand and conquer. Only Trrump could mix in his Saudi personal slush fund. There is a future war, soon to be nuclear, between Israel and Saudia Arabia, as they both want total dominance. Can Iran be faulted for its asymmetric push back against Israel with hundreds of ICBMs all with nuclear warheads?
2
@Timit
Israel and Saudi Arabia are not the problem. Well, they are problems, but not because of any conflict between them. They are essentially in a truce, an unspoken, shaky peace agreement.
The future war (and current proxy war) is between Sunni and Shiite, represented by the two remaining stronghold countries in the region - Iran and Saudi Arabia. Therein lies the battle. Don't mistakenly get Israel into this fight. They'd be happy if both sides destroyed each other, although if they had to make a choice, they'd back the House of Saud.
Trump is “full of sound and fury”, but he is a coward at heart. If he engages in a war with Iran, it will end all chances of his reelection in 2020. He doesn’t know much, but I think he knows that. The public will not accept another war in the middle east on behalf of the Saudis.
3
Since when are we responsible for fighting Saudi Arabia's wars? Let Saudi Arabia fight their own wars.
1
As much as I dislike our president it does seem to me that he legitimately does not want to go to war. That may be his only attribute that I appreciate.
2
Trump will have to get the approval of congress to proceed with any war and that is doubtful. However in the event that he does get approval who will be allies in this debacle ?What other countries are gullible enough to aid the US in another phony war?
1
What's a President to do? MBS wants him to attack Iran, but Putin wants him to hold off. A man cannot serve two masters. Poor Donald does not even have a National Security Adviser to turn to. The solution is obvious: he should ask Hannity!
2
I hope we are to be spared the spectacle of General Bone Spurs, triumphant warlord. Watch out for a trick; Trump desperately needs a big showy win to ensure a second term.
1
Where's the link to the UN experts' report saying the Iranians have supplied the Houthis with drones and missiles that have greatly expanded their offensive capacity?
When was the last war that didn't have it basis in religion?
2
Well, this will come as a shock to the 98% of political consultants in Washington.
Trump is being handed a beautiful war on a silver platter.
Think of all the off-budget waste that can be thrown donors’ ways or just plain outright stolen.
Think of the distraction factor.
And Trump wants peace.
Trump is showing his disdain and disrespect of the MIC and the deep state.
Cue MSM. Russia must be controlling him. How dare he starve the deep state?
1
Coming from a nineteen year old, Trump seems to be the king of diplomatic "edging" -- he takes relations with other states to the brink, and then retreads his steps. (a la Kim Jong-Un?) I don't realistically think he will pursue war with Iran (that and Congress would deny a formal declaration of war). Nearly all of my life America has been militarily involved in the Middle East, and I cannot understand the viewpoint that more conflict is working towards a better future for me. It just isn't. Yes, Iran could obtain nuclear launch capabilities. Yes, the Saudis have the oil. But the more time and effort that is spent with modern-day crusades is...old, to say the least. I suggest to Trump to suggest the Saudis, Iranians, and Yemeni come together during the UN General Assembly next week and brainstorm rational and logical solutions to this conflict.
2
@OmahaNE
Too logical.
All you would be missing is Khrushchev banging his shoe on the podium.
It is all about the crushing sanctions strangling Iran, remove the sanctions and we will all get on with our lives, continue strangling Iran and it will get worse, much worse, for everybody, as Mr. Alyahya astutely predicts.
I believe the last thing Trump desires is a war with Iran. After what he’s often said of our invasion of Iraq having been foolish, he’s not likely to wish to repeat the same with its neighbor. He just wanted to negate a treaty made by a black man to please his constituents. I’m sure he never imagined all the repercussions that would come from that. And now that he knows, he, desperately, wishes to quickly make a deal with Iran that may be much like what Obama’s was, only with him given credit.
This fallout isn’t about Iran. It arose from an oft-repeated crusade fetish of Trump’s to erase all evidence a black man was ever president. It goes to the heart of why he still hates John McCain, too.
1
Exactly what I would expect of Trump during a moment of crisis - talking out of both sides of his mouth and saying nothing, giving the distinct impression of being handheld through all the complicated data. Now that something big has happened, he's shown for what he is: clueless and too small for the job.
4
Now the president who tore up the deal we made after long effort wants to make a deal. We must now all pay the price for this president's ignorance, inexperience and egotism. Making America great again indeed.
1
@mark
A repeat of remaking NAFTA. Change a few words, give it a new name, a little updating, and face-lifting and
"Voila! Have I got a new deal for you!"
If anything comes out of talking with Iran, expect the same thing with the nuclear deal.
Trump reminds me of an abusive husband. He prods and pokes Iran and abuses the peace, and now, in order to appear as a stable and contemplative re-electable president after he is assured that Iran WON'T come to the table, he mouths platitudes about wanting talks. Has followed this pattern with China and the tariffs as well. He is unable not to yield to the siren song of the shell game and slight of hand that has you looking one direction while he does a switch and bait. I wish we could escape into a fantasy universe where Trump could be put into suspended animation until all the fires he has started could be extinguished and until we could remove this number one threat to our security from office.
Trump can make money from war. No more need be said.
2
The US president backs down.
Again.
Sacking and litigating and deriding former key advisors from the CIA the FBI is a pattern.
The castigation and firing of the UK ambassador to the US is noted.
The NIA office is vacant.
The world awaits the "deal of the century' only after the elections in Israel.
Backing a winner is no basis for US foreign policy as a NIA officer might remark.
The guy who pulls together all information to assist the leader of the free world is … vacant.
The president is trying to cobble together an alliance of subservient nations to dig him out of a hole before election day.
Europeans did not ditch the Iran deal.
Nations do not debase human values by obsequious private chats with Mr Putin and shared love missives with Kim or meeting with the Taliban at Camp David near that anniversary.
Let's see what the Israeli elections decide.
Mr Trump has no credulity and utter incapacity to deal with very complex issues.
He does not have the instinct or attention span to plan.
Policy on the run means exiting from subtle and thoughtful strategy used to great effect by adversaries.
Stating or bragging that the US submarines have visited areas off North Korea is dumb.
Waving photos of Iran is shocking to allies.
The US might need NATO to fix the oily mess created by your Commander in Chief.
Australian naval forces are tasked to boating and yachting in the Middle East.
US Navy share beer.
3
I do not care if Iranian weapons were used on the refinery. American bombs are being dropped on Yemen.
The U.S. is not dropping the bombs, Saudi Arabia is and just because Iranian weapons were not used does not prove the Iranians used them.
One more point. This was not a terrorist attack. Saudi Arabia has been at war with the Houthis for four years and killing civilians with bombs and starvation. Are the Houthis expected to sit there and accept being blown away?
What they did was attack an economic target that is a legitimate military target in war. Saudi Arabia had it coming.
4
Trump is the first President since Carter in the 1970's to not get us into a war. It is fair to disagree with Trump on issues but he has been opposed to intervention in foreign conflicts and has respected the rulings of the judicial branch even when it was clear judges were allowing their personal political opinions to influence their decisions. He is hardly the worst President, many of you simply disagree with his policies and can't accept that he won the election.
1
@Michael Green
The bar is pretty low when a president deserves praise for not launching a unilateral illegal war.
Besides, Trump already has his share of dead bodies, partly from his own raid in Syria and mostly from his determination to try to keep supplying arms to Saudi Arabia.
The right keeps trying to frame objections to his regime as a “difference over policies.” What it us, my friend, is a difference between civility and barbarism, one that pits freedom and life against fascism and murder.
2
We sell Saudi Arabia billions in arms but we must now do their bidding. What has MBS and Kushner been discussing?
1
Hmmm . . . constantly threatening others and then backing down and saying you don't want to go to war. Sounds like a paper tiger endangering its citizens. Everything on earth isn't a business deal to profit the president and his family. Trump voters don't appear to care about national honor, doing business with murderers, or endangering their children or other people's. Is sheer incompetence an impeachable offense?
If incoming drones can do so much damage undetected, surely there's a more pertinent question for Trump. What's to stop drones from being launched here, aimed at an American city or major utility installation?
6
Oh....all these Trumpites think how tough Trump is and how he is going to show the Iranians how tough the U.S. is. But if we break Iran, we own Iran. And, recall from the Iraq war, the absolute greatest fear of countries like Iran, Iraq and so on is American occupation. And recall what Trump said about Iraq after that war was over "We should have taken their oil". Trump will make what happened in Iraq and Afghanistan look like a skirmish in comparison to what happens in Iran. And, let's see, we pull out of Afghanistan, invade Iran, and really enrage the people there. And they will just shrug their shoulders? Are we trying to end terrorism or breathe life into the cause? We sold all those weapons to the Saudis so we could fight their war for them?
1
Even if it was Iran, why would the U.S. want to fight a war for the Saudis?
Let's not forget, even if the Saudi government is not responsible for 911, its citizens were the ones who did it.
Saudi Arabia has chosen to enter into conflict with Iran by fighting a proxy war in Yemen, that is their business, not America.
America is a net oil producer now. She should not be held hostage by oil, Saudis' or Iran's.
Trump might be a faux neocon but he chose to rip up the agreement with Iran, did he really think the rogue country wouldn't do anything desperate? Just running the U.S. one tweet at a time is enough to invoke the 25th!
Iran has regional ambition; Saudi Arabia has regional ambition. Two bullies don't make one right. Why should America insert herself in the regional conflict when she wants to bring her troops home.
No matter how rich America is, opening a third major theater of war, in addition to having a trade war all over, esp. China, not to mention about the shadow wars, cyber wars and other resource taxing endeavors, is just a gift to China and Russia.
Trump wanted to be the prima donna on world stage, now he got it. Now what? But hey, even if both W and Trump lost the popular vote, the voters picked them to run this country to ruin. When they picked W in spite of enjoying the peace dividend under Clinton, it was "fool me once." This time though, it is "fool me twice!"
3
We are lucky Trump is all but eager to be re-elected, or else one never knows what crazy thing he would have committed against Iran, considering his great affinity and friendship for the Saudis. His reluctance to retaliate against Iran assures them he is full of blaster and hardly risk his chances for another term.
He is holding out for more money from the Saudis. They have been sent the Trump secret bank account details, but Trump is pushing for an extra billion - to make up for the money he's losing at his resorts & hotels.
Sadly, I'm not even joking. Trump is corrupt enough to hire the US military out to the highest bidder.
The Saudis are angry. They have a strong military & are prepared for war
They will fight down to the last American soldier.
1
Six battalions of Patriot missiles and they don’t protect their oil refineries. Are they all around MBSs palaces? It is great that the Saudis buy all this equipment from us but they can’t use it. After four years they can’t even defeat the Houthis. I guess they couldn’t hire any Filipinos to fight for them. Lawrence of Arabia was greater than we knew, he at least could get some tribes to fight.
1
Are Trump and Mohamed ben Salman "paper tigers"
Let us hope so;
For otherwise things can get ugly.
Remember the Iran Irak war. And the hundred of thousands deaths
Or the Koweit war, with our boots on the ground and the resulting casualties.
Worse the Saudis are no match for the Iranians. If they choose to do so, they could invade Koweit and Saudi Arabia in an hour's time since they have an almost border with them.
The recent disruption from drones would be nothing as compared with a land invasion consequences and destructions.
But I still sincerly fail to understand Trump stubornness and fury to bring a "change of regime" in Iran.
What if the Iranians insisted on a change of regime in the US,
What fundamental US intrests are really at stake there, to need our implication in a local and far away dispute;
We left the Iranians and Irakis fight it on their own.
Plese Donald, let the Middle East alone;
We dont really need their few billions.
We have enought local oil, so what is the problem?
1
Trump talks big then always backs down. Every single time. He still thinks he's talking big to tile and drywall installers. World leaders, especially the bad ones, have his number and he doesn't scare them one iota.
3
The issues of the GM strike have proven that we must have war or the threat of war to stimulate our otherwise dying economy.
@bnc
War doesn’t stimulate an economy.
It results in huge deficits.
@Jerry Engelbach
But it makes lots of money for munitions manufacturers, vendors of services (i.e., transportation, food suppliers and preparers, etc.) that he military used to do itself, and gives the government shouting privileges of how many jobs it's created.
No one can be trusted here. Not Trump, not Pompeo, not MBS, not the Houthis, and not the Iranians.
That aside, the Houthis are entitled to defend themselves against Saudi aggression including war crimes. But it’s unlikely the Iranians would have given them sophisticated drones with carte Blanche to use them.
The Iranian leaders are in a tough spot with biting sanctions and a foundering economy. And, like most of Trump’s ‘negotiations,’ it’s impossible to know what he wants from one moment to the next and what he wants to achieve.
So it’s likely the Iranians decided to roll the dice and see who’s more chicken. The Iranian regime has less to lose with a conflict than the Saudis with their oil dependent economy and their planned 2 trillion dollar Aramco stock offering.
And Trump has to be afraid of his electoral chances if he precipitates an expensive war, wasteful of US blood and treasure with entirely unknown consequences. It would also be a war brought on by his own reckless foreign policy of backing the Saudis, and largely recognized as such.
It should be time for real adults to sit down and see if it’s possible to reinstate the JCPOA before moving on to encourage everyone to try to share the neighborhood more peacefully. We can impose stiff sanctions on violators and sell no more arms than needed for self defense.
3
@Michael Tyndall
All good, but Trump fires any adult that comes within 20 yards of the Oval Office.
1
President Trump is handling this situation well mindful of the many uncertainties involved. Regrettably, Secretary of State Pompeo sounds like a 2nd rate hack rather than a diplomat rushing to judgement. The damage to Saudi oil facilities while extensive appears to be relatively modest - less severe than the recent attacks on Popular Mobilization Forces bases in Iraq that have resulted in over 20 killed. PMF was formed by Iraq with the support of Iran in 2014 to fight ISIS, which remains a significant threat in both Iraq and Syria.
Trump's overriding goal now is to deescalate and to work towards resolution of the crisis shaped by the Maximum Pressure campaign architected by John Bolton that clearly failed to achieve its objectives. Maximum Pressure has led to instability in the Middle East that can rapidly escalate.
Trump now has the opportunity to address regional concerns spanning Houthi attacks on Saudi infrastructure, Saudi actions in Yemen, ISIS, Hezbollah and more. Clearly the major players - Saudi Arabi and Iran need to be talking to each other. Trump could demand dialogue between Iran and Saudi Arabia to work towards resolution of regional problems as a condition for rejoining JCPOA and easing sanctions. Any deal could be guaranteed by the P5 +EU as was JCPOA and lead to resolution of concerns regarding missiles, which was seen a flaw in JCPOA. Clearly oil infrastructure of both Iran and Saudi Arabia are highly vulnerable.
This fire was set by Trump. Let's not praise him for attempting to control a situation he created.
2
Since Crown Prince MBS lied about the Khashoggi murder for several weeks it is best not to rush into any war based on information from Saudi Arabia. We are not exactly dealing with an honest broker there.
15
It doesn't make sense for the Iranians to want a war with the US or to time this attack to be just before the Israeli elections which would seem to benefit the most extreme elements in Israel.
9
Oil prices jumped higher. And isn't that what really binds together the elites of the US, Saudi, Iran and Russia? Win win win!
8
Trump should recal the warships in the Persian gulf ....this should calm down the situation.
3
We've done enough for the Saudis over generations. Trump has done too much for the Saudis, from which it could be inferred that he has allegedly personally benefitted financially, in return.
We've lost enough men and women in Viet Nam, Iraq, Kuwait and Afghanistan.
It's time for the Saudis to fight with their own military, and pay for their own wars with their own funds without US support!!!!
And by the way, pay for their own fuel, and fill their own planes with their own fuel!!!!
They start their wars. They fight their own wars!!!!
If Trump wants to send our troops, its time for Donald Jr., and Eric to put their skin in the game instead of our troops!
10
"The images did suggest a complex, precise attack that far exceeded any capabilities the Houthis had previously shown, raising the likelihood of Iran’s involvement."
It also exceeds any capabilities Iran had previously shown.
Nobody has done a mass coordinated attack like this one. Ever.
So that nobody has ever done it does not mean it was Iran that did it.
7
@Mark Thomason
It was put into play by Bolton (just before he got kicked out of office) to fan the flames of the religious war.
1. There is no way the Houthis could have crafted such a sophisticated attack on their own. The Iranian did it.
2. There is no way the Iranian would risk an all out war against US. They had assurances it won't happen.
3. Check who benefits from this attack and you know who gave the Iranian assurances. Yes. It is him again. Mr. Putin
4. How could Putin provide such assurances to the Iranian? You know how.
5. America's failure to protect it's interests and allays is the stepping down of America as leader of the world. Not some time in the future but right now before your eyes.
6. America's allays are watching with bewilderment
7. The election of Mr. Trump will prove to be an infliction point in the world's history
6
Fire might have been accidental? Is that possible? Coverup couldn’t produce a war.
1
Gulf of Tonkin. Period.
11
Still no evidence for this irresponsible claims. However I also want to point out that the Times, only today, wrote that this incident was unlikely to raise oil prices because there was a substantial reserve in Western countries especially in the U.S. Well, this turned out to be entirely wrong. Where did this pronouncement come from, and why did the Times report it uncritically?
4
Earlier this year nearly 40 members of Iran’s Revolutionary Guard were killed or wounded by a car bomb.Since 2012 attacks have been made by a terrorist Jihadi group from south eastern Iranian on civilians and security forces such as the Guard.The group may be financed by Saudi Arabia. In that case if Iran had something to do with disabling Saudi oil refiners then we may assume it was an answer that said we too can hit you.
5
You no longer have to be a superpower to cause havoc within the world. You no longer need an arsenal of nuclear weapons or a multi billion dollar defense budget. Armed with computer hackers and drones you can bring a country to its knees. Times have changed and I’m not too sure the United States is still the top dog. Sure, we have enough nukes to completely destroy the world, but how does that benefit us? Or anyone?
8
The Saudis say that Iran was behind the attack, aren't they the ones who claimed they were not behind the death of a prominent Washington post reporter? When lying is second nature for a government no one can believe them. Does anyone believe what comes out of Trumps tweets.
13
@George Marley - Anyone that believes anything that trump tweets or says has some very serious issues that they should get sorted out as soon as possible.
6
Iran can get away with anything they want. Trump will never fight back. Sure enough, nobody in America wants a war with Iran except the moustache Trump recently evicted from the White House. A war with Iran would be the straw that breaks America's back. They know this, and it's not a good position for us to be in.
2
There is something that I don't understand.
Iran is able to track on radar an American drone and successfully shoot it down. But Saudi Arabia, with all of that modern military equipment from the U.S. can't defend itself? And not only can it not shoot a drone down, it can't even track it on radar, let alone decide where they came from???
19
Well ...appearances aren’t even required! The day this great nation needs evidence to support any of its actions is the day we loose our Exceptionalism!
1
The only good thing I can say so far about Trump's handling of this situation is that I don't see any Sharpie marks on the surveillance photos (yet!). His tweets and his pompous mouthpiece Pompeo do us no service with their bellicosity. I don't understand how GOP leaders can continue to overlook the incompetence and lack of verbal restraint of this administration. Let's hope we can vote all of these hucksters out next year, because I fear we are doomed otherwise. More importantly, let's hope there is a next year.
9
Not so sure the Iranians bombed Saudi Arabia's oil fields just because the Saudis say they did, and not sure the Iranians want to make a deal with Trump since he has a reputation for not keeping his word.
Congress needs to watch Trump like a hawk because he's slippery and a liar and would do whatever might increase his chances to make money and/or get re-elected.
If Trump told me it was night time I'd want to look out the window to see if it is.
11
I’m psychic and for what it’s worth, feel very strongly that Trump and Co. are making tons of money of this Saudi attack. It will eventually come out and they’ll get caught. Saudi Arabia knew about it somehow and were in on it (though I’m not sure how). Other nations will come to Iran’s defense. There will be more bloodshed but no outright war with Iran. And it doesn’t take a psychic to see that this whole thing is a farce. Hence Trump’s backpedaling. What a mess.
2
So the president is "locked and loaded" until the Saudi regime tells him to wait. Who is in charge here?
5
Don't we sell millions of dollars worth of fighter jets to the Saudis?
This is not our fight.
4
I have another hypothesis about the attack to Saudi Arabia's oil facilities. Prime Minister Netanyahu has a lot to gain from a conflict in the Middle East and he is desperate to win in today's election. We also know that Israel has the capability to lunch such an attack.
5
There are lots of mentions of Iran's helping hand. But Saudi backed Yemenites have Western weapons provided by us. Why is that never mentioned?
5
The rapidly shifting blow-hot-blow-cold policy stances that Trump is compelled to take against Iran is solely due to his compromised position and choice of the infamous Saudi regime as the US ally in the Gulf region. Trump's piggyback ride wuth the Saudi Arabia will only compromise Trump's credibility let alone the US national interests.
1
Why doesn't Saudi Arabia have weapons to combat a smart drone with a smart bomb, such as a smart missile or a drone of its own. Was it the kind of drones the US has used in the middle east on individual terrorists, successfully?
I am completely frightened by this development.
My perception is that the Russians enabled the Iranians to accomplish this attack. If it is at all true that Russia had any involvement, including providing the smart drone with a smart bomb, or aiding them in the preparation of the attack, then I fear the worst.
Russia seems bent on making the world unstable:
providing some kind of ominous brain damaging microwave (plus something else yet to be determined) technology to attack diplomats and their family members in Cuba, probably,
using that same ominous technology on visitors to Russia, in Russia
being in Venezula as it is in shambles, with an obvious ulterior motive to control its oil
and to disrupt and disturb US elections.
This is a new war. No notice, no expression of a grievance that could have led to negotiation talks, use of high technology to exact the maximum damage to an essential world resource. It is very scary to me.
1
Jokes apart this is pretty serious. Playing with war is not for a "president" that does not know about consequences.
2
Trump's policy on Iran could lead to disaster. Saudi Arabia could be destabilized. Before the attack they produced 10 million barrels of oil a day. They consume 4 million of that domestically leaving 5 million barrels a day for export. They now have no oil to export other than what they have stockpiled. If that dries up before their facilities are repaired their oil revenue will dry up. Without oil revenue Saudi Arabia will collapse. Oil prices will soar and the world economy will crash and burn. This is a dangerous situation.
2
The old notions of military might keep becoming upended.
The first Gulf War presented amazing power, destroyed much, and brought Al-Qaeda's attack on 9/11.
9/11 brought amazing power, and the longest war, great depletion and loss.
The Iraqi War was suppose to bring democracy and liberation but awesome power brought chaos and destruction and loss beyond measure.
Now, folks see America's might, envision the end of the rulers of Iran, and peace finally descending on the Middle East, but what this might will more likely bring is utter destruction to Saudi Arabia and the Gulf States, probably the eventually fall of the House of Saud (that relies on largess -and order --to keep it afloat), depleting debt to America, death and destruction and the diminishment of America's power and authority in the world.
Good to dream big but bombs usually beget bombs, and carnage and destruction the likes of which no one imagines.
Neighbors should learn to live together and outside forces should encourage this -- not stifle this.
12
I find the satellite images highly puzzling: the pattern of hits is perfectly symmetrical, with no apparent trace of randomness, or an impact that is an outlier. Given the alleged far-from-perfect weapons technology of Iran, this impact symmetry and perfect hits on target are not what I would expect see had the attack been launched from outside of Saudi Arabia. Indeed, had Iran had such incredible weapons technology that I would be able to direct an attack where the impacts show no trace of randomness, then I would have expected they would have been able to direct the impacts to such spots that the entire plant would have been taken out. But that did not happen. This then raises the question of whether we are looking at the results of planted devices by someone who did not want to destroy the plants?
12
It's amateur hour in the White House.
25
Handlers to Trump: "Dude, there's a reason you got rid of John Bolton. Remember what we talked about?
12
I guess all these neo-con chicken-hawk Republican Trump supporters are okay with Trump hiring out American armed forces to fight Saudi Arabia’s wars.
14
Crude oil jumped by almost 9 USD.
One contract of 1000 barrels is 9000.
100000 contracts is 900,000,000.
It will be interesting to find out from CFTC, if there was some unusual activity at the close on last Friday
10
Our current President walks loudly and carries a little stick.
18
There are those Americans who actually voted for this moronic catastrophe.
Tell me again why I should make nice to them?
Do we really believe they can be cajoled into voting for Pete Buttigieg? Or Elizabeth Warren?
Pfft.
20
Saudi Arabia and Israel are dictating our foreign policies. Saudi Arabia is an evil country, they’re responsible for 9/11, Yet poor people of Iraq paid the price. They behead, and dismember people and ( strongly ) say they didn’t do it. No one has any definite proof that Iran was behind the attack to Saudi’s oil supply. I don’t care who is responsible, because in comparison to 4 years of killing of civilians by Saudi Arabia, this attack is nothing.
27
I won't be convinced of anything until I at least see a map with some kind of Sharpie lines on it.
44
Trump's reckless tweeting is going to get a lot of people killed one day.
19
His tweets already have. Here in the USA via hate crimes.
5
We have ships in the Persian Gulf, along with the U.K. and others Is it possible this is a false flag attack with drones being launched from ships in the Persian Gulf?
5
@e.s.:
Those who fret about so-called "false-flag" scenarios have far too much time on their hands, and have watched too many badly made movies.
Like George W. Bush and his 'mushroom c!oud' and Lyndon Johnson with the Pentagon Papers, how can we trust a president with low approval ratings, who needs a war to boost support?
8
@bnc:
In the tragic reality that is -- that "stable genius" occupying the Oval Office desperately needs to generate an endless stream of crises to distract both the public and himself from the reality of his gross incompetence and ignorance.
Having such a wildly unpredictable and utterly clueless President within reach of the nuclear football should be terrifying to every sane person on Earth.
3
Trump is smart to fan the fire against Iran but otherwise stay out of this one. A war between the patrons of Sunni extremism-SA and the leaders of Shia extremism-Iran would be something to stay out of and as they destroy each other.
3
Trump is smart to fan the fire against Iran but otherwise stay out of this one. A war between the patrons of Sunni extremism-SA and the leaders of Shia extremism-Iran would be something to stay out of and as they destroy each other.
1
Donald Trump says that Iran is responsible for the attacks on the Saudi oil facilities but offers no proof or evidence. I fear that the proof will come in the form of surveillance photos draw by a sharpie pen.
9
Trump is smart to fan the fire against Iran but otherwise stay out of this one. A war between the patrons of Sunni extremism-SA and the leaders of Shia extremism-Iran would be something to stay out of and as they destroy each other.
1
This attack brought to light an unspoken geopolitical fact - Saudi Arabia is a very vulnerable country. Iran has the capabilities to end the Saudi Arabian state as we know it and it can do very easily.
Iran is a the strongest player in the Middle East. Its people and its leaders know how to move strings around the region with ease. To leave Iran out of any equation in Middle East is a fools play.
The Saudis lost in Syria. They lost in Lebanon. They lost in Iraq. They have lost Yemen. They lost all these proxies to Iran.
The reality of the current status quo is that if anyone from the B_team attacks Iran, whom does Iran target next? Saudi Arabian political system is like a snake. You cut off the head, the state collapses.
9
@John:
Superb commentary and analysis.
2
@John
Let’s hope so.
Good post.
1
The first batch of Houthi drones bomb/disable the radars of the array of Patriot missile batteries protecting the Saudi Arabian border, followed by the second batch of Houthi drones picking the Saudi Arabian oil installations like sitting ducks. Job easily accomplished, very efficiently, inexpensively.
Says who? The media of our closest ally. A quote from the Times of Israel article: "The rebels have flown drones into the radar arrays of Saudi Arabia’s Patriot missile batteries, according to Conflict Armament Research, disabling them and allowing the Houthis to fire ballistic missiles into the kingdom unchallenged."
6
@Alex Codyh
Interesting how the U.S. spends billions on expensive weaponry that can be defeated by much cheaper, lower-tech means.
1
The Trump credo: Speak loudly, but it's all a big shtick.
8
On how many consecutive days does trxmp have to "change his mind", "tone it down", or just flip-flop before a substantial part of his unquestioning base realises that he has no idea what he's doing? So far it's just about every day of the last three years.
5
Not to go to war is the right decision. For all I know, it could be Israel the culprit to drag US into a Middle East conflict.
10
It amazes me that Trump will give unconditional support for Saudi Arabia but constantly complains about having to contribute to the defence of America's allies in Europe.
Trump seems to think that he is doing a favour for the Europeans rather than supporting a mutual defence alliance and a buffer for the US. What is the quid pro quo with Saudi Arabia?
If the Saudis choose to attack the Houthis in Yemen, then they should be prepared to suffer the consequences, not the US. The US should be telling the Saudis to stay out of Yemen or suffer the consequences of their own actions.
I dislike the Iranian regime as much as I dislike the Saudi regime. But Trump's unwarranted sanctions on Iran is idiocy and no doubt the world will suffer the consequences of that. And Trump's attempt to blame Iran for all that is wrong in the Middle East is a perfect trigger for another futile war.
11
I have always been an avid Trump supporter. But with this new weakness on Iran I fear for the security of my country. I'm no longer going to Vote in 2020 if he doubles down on his weakness and eases sanctions. The Iranian leadership are stone cold killers. I believe in security through strength and we no longer have strength. Granted Trump is not as weak as Obama but at this point I no longer trust him. Trump should have known that the United States does not negotiate with terrorists. The failed Afghan talks is exactly what's going to happen with Iran. I believe he should have proceeded with the airstrikes after they brought down the drone. I enjoy the raise I have gotten and the tax break, but nation security is more of a concern for me especially the fact that Iran will use the bomb. The Iranian government won't officially use the bomb, it will be converted into a dirty bomb using nuclear fissile material. Then passed on to an Iranian proxy militia to be used on American soil where are European soil where they have attempted assassinations. It will also definitely be used in the Middle East most likely Israel or Saudi Arabia (by way of Yemen) The Ayatollah Khomeini slap Trump in the face and legitimately controls the Strait of Hormuz. I can tell you I'm no longer going to be defending Trump that's for sure. Iranians have killed people for 40 years. The only thing Trump has ever killed was a golf ball in a Big Mac.
#TrumpWeakness
1
Earth to Gabriel, I wish I could be completely out of touch with reality as you seem to be. Proof that 40 years of right-wing propaganda has now completely eroded critical thinking skills in the U.S.
24
@Gabriel
Your tax break/raise was the product of our government going massively into debt to juice the economy. You should thank you kids and grandkids, 'cause they'll be paying for it.
Too bad you didn't do any research before you selected Trump to be in charge. There are reams of info going back to the 1980's about his shifty and disgraceful character. A leopard doesn't change his spots.
7
@Gabriel
There’s much I could say but the most important is this: you should have never trusted Trump.
6
The moment he is out of office. The unindited coconspirator and his progeny will be prosecuted. They are scared. And they should be.
8
Is it me or does everyone else have Trump fatigue? I ‘m tired of the 24/7 news coverage of this sociopath. Between Trump and his advisors this administration is like watching the Three Stooges or Abbott and Costello. There is no foreign policy, there is no domestic policy, his judicial policy is to stack the courts with conservative judges to protect him from litigants and the DOJ has run afoul. I would vote for Elmo just to get the Apprentice president out of office.
13
The world is suffering for the sake of this pathetic man's vanity.
9
I don't have any problem with Israel and Bibi, per say, but Iranian attacking Saudi oil days before elections is too convenient for Bibi and his Israeli national security policy machine. Can I call a false flag operation?
14
Isn't it ironic that while the Saudis murder innocent Yemeni civilians and destroy their country using the latest state of the art weapons and technology supplied by the US, we say nothing, but as soon as the Yemenis retaliate against the Saudis, we want to go to war with Iran even though the Yemenis and Iran did not attack us? Is this the western values that we brag about day in and day out? It appears that the so-called western value is oil and money obtained at the cost of innocent human lives and the destruction of weak nations. Also, by supporting the brutal Saudi regime and supplying them with the latest weapons and technology to be used against the defenseless innocent civilians, we are supporting Saudi's war crimes. That is despicable, immoral, inhumane, and crime against humanity.
13
This is a real conundrum for Trump. On the one hand he wants to keep the Saudis happy so he can someday build a hotel in Riyadh, on the other hand he wants to make a deal so he looks good, on the third hand on the other hand he wants to look tough for his base, on the fourth hand he (presumably) knows that if he starts a war with Iran the Iranians can shut down Saudi oil production and the resulting spike in oil prices will cause a recession and probably cost him the election. Following your gut is going to be a real problem here, no question.
7
Trump has taken strictly a political stance for 2020.
Trump knows that now America has no appetite for military conflict in the middle east. Trump realizes that a large-sized military action over oil will lose the election.
If there are more attacks against the Saudis (or other producers such as Iran) the price of a barrel of oil will spike very high, leaving the United States with a de facto Arab oil embargo. Back then it was curtains for President Ford, and then curtains for Carter.
Blustering Bolton is gone; Pompous Pompeo is still around. Nonetheless, Trump more or less is still painted into a corner.
If terrorists and foreign adversaries wanted to do real damage to the United States economy, now would be the time.
The whole world knows Trump is not up to diplomacy nor commanding the military. The whole world except the Trump base who are deluded and whistling past the graveyard.
6
It is always the same problem with Trump...he talks/tweets first and thinks after.Anyway, we may live another week.
4
In such a mass of comments I hope someone else has said this:
Wouldn't having the USA in a war greatly improve Trump's chances of being re-elected?
1
Trump figured out that attacking Iran would hurt his re-election chances.
3
"Locked and loaded" for what? "Cocked and loaded" for what? Trump's supporters are disappointed of course. This diplomatic choke is far worse than Barack Obama's "line in the sand." Obama went to Congress for approval to use military force and the legislative body voted against it.
6
Really, really, sick.
Hundreds of millions are more determined than ever to execute his exit --- out of the oval office.
6
djt needs a permanent time out from the Oval Office. Put him on a small stool, facing into the corner until, let's see, til pigs fly, til the end of time. mcconnell, miller, pence, barr, pompeo, etc. also need to go away. VOTE Democrat 2020 PLEASE, for the safety of the world, for love of self and family, for the return of compassion, kindness and sanity in our country's leaders. PLEASE...
7
Trump is a LIAR. That is all I need to know about war talk from a Trump administration.
19
Perhaps even Trump can see that when you play with fire, as he has done in the Arabian peninsula, you might get burned.
4
Saudi Arabia, with US assistance, lays waste to Yemen and its people. And everyone is upset that the Houthis in Yemen, with Iranian help, fight back. Spare me!
No player here has clean hands— least of all Saudi Arabia and the US.... The neo-cons in the US, along with Netanyahu and Saudi Arabia, have been chomping at the bit for decades to declare war on Iran.
Let us resist the urge, and stop this deadly nonsensical game. Americans, please don’t fall for it!! No more idiotic wars in areas of the world that we simply do not understand. It is time for the US to stop selling weapons around the world that destabilize entire regions, and instead become the global peacemakers....
12
Trump has’nt a clue. Unqualified and unfit to serve as potus.
9
As Maggie Haberman succinctly states in her Twitter feed this evening:
"Part of the president’s campaign pitch was against the Saudis in relation to the 9/11 attacks."
Yes. This.
I well recall DJT saying repeatedly he would get to the bottom of any state-sponsorship of the hijackers or their accomplices, 90%+ who were Saudi and which a large group of families has filed suit against and have been trying to pry this information (covered up) loose for 18 years, though multiple administrations.
As a 9/11 family member, I thought at the time, 'well, that's something no one else is talking about on the campaign trail.
And THAT would be something to accomplish.'
Now, understand: I loathe DJT, he has no business being president (I still have trouble typing that) and I didn't vote for him nor would I ever.
However, since he weaseled his way into office nonetheless, I have been watching and waiting for some sign he might actually make good on that campaign pledge as it relates to Saudi Arabia.
Alas, like all else ... a big, fat orange NO.
Just last week, in fact -- the anniversary of 9/11 -- he had 'his' AG, Bill Barr, refuse to release information held or name names from 9/11 that ARE Saudi, and ARE held in government files.
I knew he wouldn't follow through, nearly instantly. When his first foreign trip was touring 'the Kingdom' and all he could do was ooh and ahh over all the gold leaf decor ... yeah, 'our special friends, the Saudis' have no worries w/DJT.
9
O.K everyone knows by now Trump is at best a really bad circus clown but the media still acts surprised when this clown rattles off his incoherent phrases.
And the GOP is just as guilty as Trump. There are so many lawsuits in progress right now against Trump they are even showing up as "Favorites" on my TV menu.
4
Jared Kushner led him to The Saudis, and Bolton and Netanyahu to trash the Iranian agreements, but he really doesn’t want war, so has back off the rhetoric for now. This is what happens when happens when you’re in way over head.
12
Here's a question: I understand that Iran is supplying drones and missiles to Houthi "rebel" (freedom) fighters, so... who supplied them to Iran?
2
They making’em, I think!
Iran is no more responsible for the attack than the US. Most of the terror in Yemen is by Saudi using US-supplied weapons.
8
IF Trump is now saying he doesn't want war, that tells me one thing:
Macron got through to him.
5
And/or Tucker Carlson.
Crazy, I know!
2
Trump won't do anything (not a bad thing, timorous but better than John Bolton's limited skill set). Being the upperclass softie that he is, Trump avoids any fight he can't easily win, whence his offloading foreign polcy to the transactional Saudis. My worry is Trump becoming suddenly reckless in a desperate adolescent effort to prove some sorely lacking street cred.
14
Saudi’s despot has to realize that the only value Saudi possess in exchange for the protection from the US is its oil. This protection will be dropped when Saudi could not provide a stable oil supply to the West; therefore, it is to best interest for the Saudi to withdraw from Yamen and let Houthi participate in a free election in Yamen. This democratic process will not only bring peace in Yamen but also exalt the US position as the champion of democracy and the leader of the free world.
@tedc
Free elections in Yemen? You've got to be joking. The Houthis gained power in Yemen with blood and steel, not through the ballot box!
Non Govrnmental experts say the attack came from the South but Trump, Pompeo and the Arabs claim its from the North directly fedexed by Iran.
The Iranians drone technology has reached a new level of sophistication. They launch it from Khamenei's compound, they fly over the arabian Sea, make a U turn past the refineries in tandem and hit them from the South thereby confusing the West just so the Houthis can take credit for the attack.
Yes indeed, I can see it, very creditable work by Trump's misinformation team. We need to hire the guys who developed this new tech!
8
Look to Israel.
2
The President caved in to Putin and Kim Jung Un. Then he lets a NATO member buy Russian weapons and fires Bolton. Why would Iran be concerned about Trump's reaction?
The question is whether the bone saw specialists in Saudi Arabia have enough compromising material to persuade Trump to take military action.
This is the GOP's gift to America- a total incompetent making
crucial national security decisions with no adults in the room.
10
No matter what develops as a result of this attack on the Saudi's oil installations -- it's up to Congress, NOT the president, to declare war. Let's not get involved in yet another middle east quagmire to protect Saudi oil revenue!
9
Trump is facing a crisis which far exceeds his intellectual and decision-making abilities, and that itself represents a huge geopolitical risk to the entire world, because he has succeeded in convincing the Iranian hardliners (who are in charge) that he has been bluffing all along. But this will not avoid a catastrophic war, it may only delay it a while longer.
If, as appears likely, the US is willing to produce sufficient evidence to prove that the attack originated from Iran, this would constitute an act of war (against the Saudis) which will require a military response of significant magnitude. The response will need to be very severe and will almost certainly involve the loss of life, at least initially by Iran. Saudi is not capable of fighting a sustained war against Iran, and the US will be sucked in because failing to protect Saudi Arabia would mark a complete collapse of US military credibility, worldwide, even if there is no formal defense treaty in place. Yet, hitting Iran has a very likely probability of triggering a widescale regional war with Iranian proxies in Iraq, Lebanon and Syria, which internationalizes the conflict.
Yet, failing to respond militarily would be an even worse option, since it would only further convince Iran that it has little to lose from even more brazen attacks. Why not shut down Hormutz or finish destroying Saudi's oil facilities?
I think we've reached the point where military pushback has become inevitable and essential.
3
For many years, decades really, the US under Democratic and Republican Presidents has insured that the Saudis have been able to purchase high tech war machines from us. I see no reason for the US/Trump to start saber rattling or to even think about it. Let the Saudis fight their own wars with the equipment we have sold them. And by the way, from intelligence to flight training, the Saudi military has received the much coveted training in the USA. We the people do not need to be there.
7
This fight would not remain confined to Iran and Saudi Arabia. If Iran feels the need to drive a wedge between the Arab nations, it can strike Israel. If Israel is struck, the US will be compelled to enter the fray. Israel has nuclear weapons, which it might use. Russia, traditionally a player in the Middle East but marginalized in recent decades, might get involved. Just imagine this escalating ...
I have whiplash.
5
So you expect me to believe that the relative handful of structures that were damaged between those two facilities represents 50% of Saudi Arabia's oil producing capacity.
50%?
MmmHmm. OK.
10
As per psychologists, bullies are mostly cowards. So is our leader, I believe! This is probably the reason why he desperately makes friends with brutal dictators such as Kim Jong-un and Putin. Having said this, I like the outcome of his cowardice. We don’t need another stupid war.
12
Killing thousands of civilians and starving millions more is one thing but attacking a refinery !!! That’s one step too far!!
26
You want to avoid war. Ya think?
3
Yup... I told you so ... Trump is a Defensive and WEAK Person and President ... I doubt he will do anything to Iran ...?
3
@Henry You want the war?
1
Remember how trump made dumb , shallow observations about World events occurring during the Obama administration ? He is still doing it !
9
Trump is going to defend the country that uses Sharia Law and gave us 9-11?
Think about that for a sec.
23
Since the the big lie about WMD I stopped to believe and trust our Government.
7
I’m an American, visiting Australia for a month. When people realize where I’m from, the vast majority go cold, stop talking, or simply turn away. I’ve experienced similar reactions in the 20 countries I’ve traveled to since 2016. In the US, we like to think we’re the shining light of the world; a beacon of freedom; an example for everyone else. We’re not. No longer. I love the US, but we need to be honest about where our leaders are taking us.
28
@M
I had the opposite experience when i visited Italy in 2017 and Japan two months ago. In both countries they treated us very graciously and conversed with us never turning away, and yes, they knew we are Americans because they asked and we told them where we are from with pride.
1
@M
The Australians don't want you to stay. They have been hostile to Americans for decades.
How is there no mention that this might be retaliation for Trump admitting on Twitter that the US took out their rocket at Semnan launch site one?
3
Thank you Mr. Trump for not jumping into a war.
@Ugly and Fat Git
The fat lady hasn't sung yet. However I believe Trump's reticence is the product of realizing that words have consequences, and not because of any sound judgement on Trump's part.
Spanky must have taken a poll and found out no one likes a war president any more, especially if we're supposed to be helping, not defeating, the Saudis.
4
The Yemeni, or whoever is/are behind the drone attacks could target Royal palaces if push comes to shove.
It looks like Saudi defence systems have a weakness.
2
@Technic Ally
Perhaps the Saudis should follow in the foot steps of Turkey and purchase an advanced, Russian air defense system.
1
It's time for the Saudi's to step up and defend their own country.
8
Admiral Allan West, RN (Ret.): "Some powerful groups in Israel, Saudi Arabia and the United States want war and think a precision strike against key parts of Iran’s military capability would lead to regime change. They are wrong. It would lead to an open-ended war with catastrophic consequences across the region and the globe” ----- Words of wisdom!
7
Donald Trump lies to us so frequently. How can we ever trust what he says?
11
Despite all my criticism of Trump, he is doing the right thing here.
@Eric ,
The US has no treaty with SA obligating us to follow them into war if attacked.
The right thing for Trump to do is follow the Constitution which is very clear that Congress and only Congress has the power to initiate war.
6
@Eric
What criticism ?
1
Trump changes his mind depending on who he last spoke to or what TV show he last watched.
9
@Linda
More accurately, he plays both sides of every issue and then only admits to one side after the fact
1
Putin calls the shots for his clients. Trump must obey or be exposed.
5
Iran has Trump pegged, he is the most anti war President in American history. His whole life has been building structures and a company, not destroying stuff.
When Bolton was fired, the rulers of Iran took that as a positive sign that Trump had no appetite for war with them. It was no coincidence that the Saudi refineries were hit only days after Bolton was gone.
The Koch machine and the other uber-rich isolationist xenophobes financially backing Republicans don’t want a war with Iran, so there will be no war with Iran. Trump is a chicken hawk and everybody, including our enemies, know it.
8
Apparently glowing orbs and bone saws are not effective against drone warfare. Nonetheless, I'm sure some trader somewhere made a killing on oil futures today. Pardon the pun.
3
@BothSides
So, so, so true. Sadly, brutally sadly so. Thanks for this succinct take on the whole mess.
After being burned by the WMD fiasco of the Iraq War can we believe what any administration tells us? And since the current administration has trashed the intelligence community, are can we believe them? I don't trust Pompeo. If Mattis were still there I might have more confidence. Right now, Christopher Wray is the only other person left in the administration I trust and he is with the FBI, not intelligence.
9
Trump was for military action before he was against military action. Make up your mind, Donald.
Hope those bone spurs aren’t scaring you away from a fight there, tough guy.
6
The US has been selling massive amounts of military equipment to Saudi Arabia for years: let them fight their own battles.
8
I cannot imagine making any wars or aggressive strikes without our long-trusted allies support cooperation. But Trump has burned those bridges.
3
@Anne
Even if he hadn’t burned those bridges, no Western allies would follow the US into a war on the side of Saudi Arabia.
1
I’m sure that re-election is on his mind and obviously knows that war is practically a guaranteed boost in polls. However, my guess is when the President realized that going to war would send oil prices to the moon and would certainly trigger a global recession, something that he would likely be blamed for, he started to backpedal.
He may have already killed his chances with his tariff war. I read about a company in Wisconsin has cratered so much because of the tariffs, they will vote Democratic to end the tariffs. If the eventual Democratic candidate hammers home that the President is solely responsible for these tariffs and vow to roll them back, they look to win and win handily.
2
@Hmmmm After nearly 20 years of continuous conflict Americans are tired of war. The polls show it. I don't war is the presidential popularity booster it once was.
@Phil
Don’t underestimate the susceptibility of the American public to lies demanding patriotism and “support for our troops.”
This is no time for a harebrained, passive-aggressive president to be experimenting with complicated diplomacy on twitter. When the Trump nightmare is finally over, and we rewrite the office of the Presidency, there needs to be rules in place about the presidential use of twitter.
10
Why should anyone listen to Trump's comments? They change every day -- and always to make Trump look good.
He is NOT going to approve a military strike at this juncture. BUT, the possible threat of it gets him all kinds of media attention.
Don't give him free advertising.
8
Have to wonder about the total lack of level-headedness here? Remove the issues of war and peace for a moment and consider the inconsistency of someone with this much power.
8
I note with interest that the location of the cloud of black smoke seen in one of the satellite images pushed by the Times and others appears to be rising from a spot about 500-600 meters southeast of the location where the damage is (LPG storage tanks, etc.). (check 25.920252, 49.701348 google maps satellite view). I'd like to understand why images showing what appear to be holes in LPG storage tanks (i.e. after the attack) don't also show any evidence of charring or soot?
I am so untrusting of anything Trump or his allies (like the Saudi's) say I can't help but assume this is some kind of attempt to get us into a shooting war to distract us in the lead up to the election.
4
I guess Trump just liked the sound of the words, "locked and loaded," and he memorized them for the next occasion he thought they were appropriate. Glad it seems (who knows for sure?) he didn't really mean it.
3
Now the questions are: How Saudi Arabia will retaliate Iranian attacks? What will be the consequences for the world economy? What will be the consequences for the oil industry? Will they use also drones?...
Trump's vacillating rhetoric strongly suggests that he has no idea what to do, nor does his team of yes-men inspire confidence. And Trump's incessant lies on matters consequential and trivial have destroyed his credibility. What could possibly go wrong?
6
Former Mossad Chief Meir Dagan has said Iran is a very "rational actor" in world affairs...meaning they are well aware of the consequences of their actions. Kissinger, in his book, World Order
has said pretty much the same.
For Iran to unleash this particular attack, at this particular time, is not rational.
Who stand to be the beneficiaries of this act. Answer that question and the problem is on the verge of being solved.
3
@Tom Callaghan
Was it rational for Hitler to have invaded Poland? Or for the Japanese to have invaded Manchuria? Or for Napoleon to have invaded Russia?
If the drones/missiles where not launched from Yemen or from Iraq, where did they come from? Outer space?
I was very surprised that this brazen and historically unprecedented attack may indeed have been launched from Iranian territory, since this goes against all precedent.
Yet this does not mean that the Iranian hardliners may not have made the same error of judgment that other aggressive powers have made in the past.
Indeed, I tend to believe that the Iranian hardliners have been lulled into a belief that Trump is a bluffer, and will not respond militarily even in the face of such an attack.
Former Mossad Chief Meir Dagan has said Iran is a very "rational actor" in world affairs...meaning they are well aware of the consequences of their actions. Kissinger, in his book, World Order
has said pretty much the same.
For Iran to unleash this particular attack, at this particular time, is not rational.
Who stand to be the beneficiaries of this act. Answer that question and the problem is on the verge of being solved.
1
The insiders are whispering, Trump asked for 20 thousand tons of gold to delivered into the coffers of the state, with Jared overseeing the transfer before Trump would give the order. Saudi's said no, Trump then said, "The price just went up to 30 thousand tons!"
The Marines standing guard at the doors of the Oval Office shed a single tear, and replaced their dress hats with MAGA ball caps.
Everyone in the building started to applaud.
The best outcome for the Yemeni people would be for continuation of sustained Houthi attacks on Saudi infrastructure. The Saudi regime, supported by weapons supplied by the Trump regime, has engaged in unspeakable atrocities against civilians, including bombing children in school busses. The Yemenis are defending themselves. Who would not do this?
7
Personally, I have little doubt that Iran supplied the weapons that struck Saudi Arabian oil facilities. The odds of the Houthi rebels developing such technology is essentially zero.
The question of culpability is more complex. The types of drone wreckage found undercuts claims that the attack must have originated from Iran because there is no straight line from Yemen to the NW side of an oil facility. Drones are not constrained to straight-line flight paths, nor are cruise missiles.
A second part of the culpability question is whether Iran is culpable since it supplied the weapons. US policy ranks first among the reasons why it is difficult to make that conclusion. The US has, for example, supplied advanced armaments to Saudi Arabia and some of those arms have been used to target hospitals, schools, private homes and other civilian targets in Yemen. The US has been adamant, however, that it cannot be held culpable for what happens with weapons it has transferred. That same argument has been made in dozens of other conflicts around the globe where US-supplied weapons have been used. The argument that Iran is culpable because it supplied the weapons therefore flies in the face of US doctrine.
FYI: I am certainly NOT an Iran apologist. While serving in Iraq, I was personally on the receiving end of more than 500 missiles that had been made in Iran but were fired by Iraqi insurgents and still sometimes have nightmares from the various near misses.
17
Thank you for your service.
I’m sorry for your nightmares.
Grateful for your misses.
3
@Ken
The real question is whether the attack was launched from Iran itself, something once considered highly improbable, but now becoming ever more possible.
I am convinced that the US has proof of the origin of the attack, but is leery of coming out with an unequivocal statement, because if the origin was from Iran, it will require a military response from somebody, and everybody is understandably frightened of the possibility of a regional war.
But fear of war is not a solution, nor will fear necessarily avoid a war, indeed, it may even make war more likely.
@Ken
It is my understanding that Yemen is blockaded by sea and by air by the Saudis. How would the Iranians get drones to them? The ports are blocked.
Whatever you think of the current Man in Office, you ought to concede him approval for his restraint. In this regard he is vastly superior to W. Bush. Surrounded by advisors pressing for war, this otherwise belligerent personality shows admirable moderation, appearing to be the coolest head in the room.
The Iranian “attacks” may be false flag events. Surely even limited war with Iran would be disastrous; the Man, who is smarter than anyone guesses, appears to understand this.
I applaud such prudence, and whatever you think of him, you should, too.
7
Agreed.
And I wouldn’t say no to him giving us Medicare for All either.
@Mr. Little it’s only because he thinks that he can make some money somewhere along the line and the small little problem of him being a coward and a traitor
2
I think it’s fear, not prudence. Why arm the Saudi’s to the teeth. It’s still a war.
1
How does anyone know if Kushner and Trump aren’t compromised by Saudi Arabia? Both need to release tax returns.
14
The question is who benefits from this attack? Its not Iran. Russia, US oil and the Saudis all benefit from the subsequent higher oil prices. Israeli Bibi benefits for his reelection chances. Coincidentally all Trump's " allies".
8
The Bolton guy that wanted war with Iran is out; so all this is just bluster to underline his tough guy image with his base. Nothing he says has any relationship with the truth or with reality. He’s also trying to show that the Iran deal was with bad people and he was right to save America from it
9
Let's hope Trump's aversion to jumping into a military conflict as Saudi Arabia's proxy holds. The attack on the Saudi oil refineries along with Iran's seizure of oil tankers is a symptom of desperation by Iran as their economy buckles under U.S. sanctions. Now may be the time for a deal, but is Trump capable of making it with no diplomatic skill and only a hawk in Secretary of State Mike Pompeo as an adviser. The U.S. has no business outsourcing their military policy to the Saudis in any case. If Trump wants the diplomatic "win" he seems desperate for, this is the moment. Whatever we think of Trump, we can only hope that he can finally make a deal rather than break them. The alternative is catastrophe.
1
@Paul Wortman
That this brazen and unprecedented attack could be the springboard for a "deal" with Iran would be miraculous, but I think highly unlikely. Far more likely a catastrophe.
@Gualtiero
“Brazen” and “unprecedented”? Hardly.
The US has long established the norm for such things by its interventions in the Middle East.
Indeed, were the US to directly intervene militarily with Saudi Arabia it would be one more instance of same. If Iran attacked SA, let the latter make their own “required military response.”
Trump always thinks that the blustery brinkmanship he developed over the decades playing with real estate in New York and Atlantic City will work in international relations. What worked in bluffing casino and hotel rivals will not work in geopolitics, which he will learn the hard way.
7
We should stay out of politics in the Middle East for thousands of years they have fought tribal and religious wars. Western and other countries taking sides is again purely political and will result in deaths and misery. In their own unique way the Middle East will sort it out themselves with a bit of huff and puff and chest beating and it will be peaceful again for a few years. Trump has no idea of the big picture and seems to think if the US shows how tough they are and what they can do that will be the end of it. No just the start of much death and destruction.
4
With the economy in a spin it seems that a war is timely for Trump as it might prop up the stock market for a bit longer, capture attention on TV to keep the the focus off Trump’s and his cabinets’ crimes and corruption. The perfect storm. I happen to believe that the drones were sent to start a greater war by forces who want this very much.
I do not think that Iran did this. Lies and more lies. It is my fervent prayer that The American People demonstrate strongly against these frightening and malignant forces of the Neocon World.
2
This is where credibility is important. Too bad Trump doesn't have any.
13
I’d reenlist, but Saudi Arabia makes me sick to my stomach. So I’ll stick with tax consulting for now.
2
Trump is a real poker player. He is completely in control. Anyone who doubts this man is a capable leader is going to be proven wrong it seems clear. I have a lot of confidence this will be managed astutely. An ideological leader - say LBJ or Sanders or Warren, even Andrew - would be stuck in a corner. Trump could not care less. He’s going to choose and he’ll never start another war over there. No Way.
2
@Richard
the ideological leaders would not have withdrawn from the agreement with Iran which has pushed them into a corner.
3
@Richard
Every foreign policy decision Trump has made has failed.
Diplomacy is not a poker game. Bluffing is gambling with the lives of millions of people.
That’s not praiseworthy. It’s criminally irresponsible.
Seems like it’s Saudi Arabia’s fight and they have the weapons we have sold them to adequately do the job.
Plus, there is nothing I believe that comes out of this White House administration.
8
They attacked Saudi Arabia. I heard that country has a few dollars here and there. They aren’t a poor, weak defenseless nation. They should be responsible for the military response, not the United States.
3
We have armed Saudi Arabia to the teeth. Iran is THEIR enemy, not ours. Why does the US have to fight this war for them?
5
We are going to defend the country that gave us 9-11?
Seriously?
18
Wow, if I were the Saudi's I'd be looking for a refund from who ever sold me this "Air Defense " system
3
It's hard when you can't believe a word the man says.
4
At this point nobody believes what the Liar in Chief says, and Congress will roll over and let him do what he wants. A conspiracy theorist would say that this kills two birds with one stone: Saudi Arabia gets the oil prices it needs to balance its budget, and the Toddler gets his way with Iran. All neat and tidy in one package.
2
We don't, actually, need Donald's opinion on this matters since he has no clue about what's really going on, I feel very comfortable working with the "Main Stream Media" to work out what happened.
Sorry Don, if this is heavy reading for you.
3
Well, Iran can say with knowledge that Trump sent weapons to the Saudi Arabian to kill Shi'ia people and others in Yemen. But that seems O.K. with Trump but not the Congress of the U.S. That says that Trump seems to say "Do as I say but not as I do"
1
Trump is obediently waiting for MBS to snap his fingers.
2
captain gaslighting at it again.
This i'm pretty certain of...if ol' Trumpee decides to try and put a coalition together to fight the Iranians there are two things to consider..1) who among our former (*notice use of the word former) allies, most of whom decried our casting the JCPA aside would be willing to join in, with any significant contributions..perhaps some back door equipment, but troops..pahleeze and, 2) Americans should realize that these Iranians are multiples better than those we saw in Iraq, there will be a fair amount of dyin' goin' on here..
Additionally there is this the Israelis will be very careful here, they are in a geographical sense..well not in a very good spot, and the Russians will do their best to pretend to bolster their budding relationship with Bibi..but will walk both sides of the street (count on it)..which leaves the Saudis to jump on board...well...the Saudis seem to be instigators and perhaps not the most reliable, and Iranians hate them almost as much as they hate the Israelis.
1
Yemenis say American weapons were used to bomb us for 5 years
4
You're children are going to war. But at least this time you'll know why they will die. As the president said in the WH today 'Saudi Arabia pays cash.'
1
@RNS
That's the great thing about Trump; he has no filter and no tact, either.
Maybe Trump sees himself as Winston Churchill.
Trump has warned the world of the dangers posed by Iran, as had Churchill of the growing threat from Nazi Germany in the 1930s.
Trump, who is fully endorsed by Israel's PM, Benjamin Netanyahu,
likens the Iranian nuclear deal, agreed to by world leaders in 2015, to the deal between UK PM Neville Chamberlain and Hitler in 1938 - worthless.
Now he's waiting for the results of the investigation into the attack on the Saudi oil refinery, to see if he can claim a Churchilian moment.
So now the dictator/murderer of Saudi Arabia now makes our military decisions for us?? Also, Jared's orthodox connections to Benjamin Netanyahu now leads to the USA contemplating going to war with Israel's enemies...
Wow! Just Wow! Guess the Evangelicals who voted for this guy Trump were actually voting for the anti-Christ who will bring their rapture--
4
The attack was against Saudi Arabia and I believe that the Saudis have a huge war machine which we sold them, so I therefore believe Saudi Arabia should be well equipped to handle this issue on their own.
37
Trump, Pompeo and their ilk very obviously have not learned their lessons from history, and we certainly can not trust what Trump, the chief liar, and Pompeo are telling us. They clearly do not remember or want to recall the catastrophe of the misinformation about WMD in Iraq that eventually led to the Iraq war. We all know how that turned out. By the way Netanyahu is fighting for his political life and I would not put it passed him that he had something to do with using drones to deliever explosives to these Saudi Arabian oil facilities. The middle east is very unstable already and a war in the Middle East now would be an absolute disaster.
12
Prez bonespurs has been itching to lead America into a war. Time for Eric and Jr to stop killing wild animals in Africa and man up. Time for the progeny to be first in line to fight daddy’s war. They have been first in line to travel ensconced in security detail on vacation and speaking engagements promoting 1984 dystopian acts conceived of by this Administration.
19
Another war for oil. Just to keep flowing the dirty stuff that's poisoning our planet and its inhabitants. Does this make sense?
14
Trump fired Bolton in part because Bolton wanted a war with Iran. I think Trump is a coward who fears leading America into war and that the Iranians know this and are taunting him.
They're daring him to attack them so they can loose the whirlwind on the Middle East but would prefer to get away with blowing up Saudi oil fields and walking away having delivered temporary but meaningful damage to their enemy.
2
So where are the patriotic Republicans who should be outraged that Trump deferred to the homicidal Saudi prince to tell him “under what terms we would proceed.” This is unbelievable. No words.
20
When you wish to rush to the aid of the Saudis please remember who took the Towers down...
15
and hurricane dorian appeared to be headed for alabama..... until it wasn't.
7
Curious that with our technology monitoring this region 24/7 we have no proof where the drones came from. Or, do we? Bibi's got an election. Hm. Whatever the case, we know far more than what is being said, which almost certainly means it is NOT what the Administration wants you to hear.
MAGAheads, rejoice!!
10
thanks for pointing out that this could have been a false flag attack by any number of third parties who stand to gain by an escalation of hostilities.
Who wants to die and kill for the man who lies about the weather, and the country from which all the 9/11 terrorists came from?
14
@T
There is no proof he lied about the weather. There is no proof that he added that sharpie loop either. Someone must have done it but to blame the greatest president since Lincoln is so unfair. Using the sharpie shows how devious his opponents are. Probably a DemoRrat drew the loop to humiliate the president. No commander in chief would sharpie-in such a kindergarten level attempt at deception. You can't even trust the DemoRats anywhere near the president's sharpies nowadays. So unfair. Impeach the impeachers. BTW Justice Kavanaugh denies those allegations. He strongly and powerfully denies them; impeach the women. If sharpie gate were true why is it that Fox hasn't exposed it? Now be fair. Everything is so unfair.
3
Good headline. “Trump says...”. Keep investigating this story NYT. Thank you!
3
Did someone cry wolf!
So when are we going to bomb Saudi Arabia for blowing up our buildings, murdering over 3000 of our fellow citizens and traumatizing hundreds of thousands of us.
16
dump trump. now.
5
I hope that nitwit in the White House doesn’t think he’s going to send American kids to die because of his psychotic obsession and jealousy of Obama. When he walked away from our agreement with Iran, this was inevitable. Congress { and he )cannot send Our kids into another stupid senseless war. What IS it with Republicans? Are they incapable of learning. God knows Trump is. This man needs to GO !?
14
Captain Obvious says that the US "is prepared for war"..... I would think that $700 Billion dollars per year just might be enough to prepare our military for wars, multiple wars.
8
Interesting to see how speculation about who launched the attack has not turned to the state that has the technical capabilities to surreptitiously carry it out, has the most to gain from embroiling Iran and Saudi Arabia in a war, has a leader who will benefit from the threat of heightened Middle East instability in his upcoming election, and would have little trouble getting Trump to commit American lives and treasure on Bibi’s behalf.
18
"The Donald" is mixed up about Iran.
After punishing them with sanctions since he became president which has almost destroyed their economy, he now wants to talk directly with their president, Rouhani .
In addition. Trump and his "advisers" broke off talks concerning nuclear agreement with Iran (Which seemed to be working) then we increased the sanctions.
Trump and "company" also increased the punishment(sanctions) on North Korea which has brought on
their new round of missile tests.
The USA has become the sanction(punishment) capital of the world which has recently brought on retaliation which should not be a surprise.
The recent drone strike on Saudi oil fields and North Korea's continuing missile tests are sanctions in return for our punishments(sanctions) of N. Korea and Iran.
Our current secretary of state's influence on his inexperienced president is the direct cause of the situation we find ourselves in.
The kind old proverb "Do unto others as you would have them do unto" is changing in front of our eyes.
The counties we have been picking on for our punishment
(sanctions) are developing their own new and practical proverb. "Do unto others as they have done to you"
Trump, Pompeo, Bolton never did understand the real picture.
One is now down with two to go.
M.W. Endres
7
Putin has ordered Trump not to attack Iran because Russia has interests in Iran.
Doesn't Trump now appear lukewarm in his enthusiasm for attacking Iran? Iran "appears" to be responsible? C'mon Donald, you can't do better than that?
Does Putin have you by the -----? Has your heart and mind followed?
More attacks on oil refineries are coming.
Not just in Saudi Arabia.
The quickest and easiest way to drive the world (including the United States) into recession and anarchy.
6
So now we are the Hessians of the middle east.Maybe Trump should read about our Revolutionary war since none of his people were here then. He might be surprised how the mercenary crew worked out.
3
And Trump is so believable, so it must be true. Trump now seems to be taking orders from the Saudi princes - he cannot seem to make up his mind about who is his favorite dictator.
7
To send the most powerful message to these scoundrels, choose to stop buying their gasoline, diesel, plastic, coal and fertilizer.
Stop sending them your money.
It’s something you can do now.
It makes all the difference.
2
Like “The Boy Who Cried Wolf,” Trump lies so often that he has absolutely zero — I repeat, zero — credibility on any issue whatsoever. At this point, I wouldn’t believe him if he said the sky was blue and the sun rises in the east. He is completely untrustworthy, and the Saudis are playing him like a cheap violin.
Thankfully for the world, he is too lazy and the wreckage of his “administration” is too inept and disorganized to run a war, especially against Iran, which has a massive, professional standing army. The Saudis have plenty of American weapons; let them deal with this.
13
It is a sad day in America when one might be inclined to believe the Iranians over a president of the United States.
14
"Alabama, will most likely be hit (much) harder than anticipated. Looking like one of the largest hurricanes ever. Already category 5. BE CAREFUL! GOD BLESS EVERYONE!"
"Iran most likely hit Saudi Arabia."
4
If the Trump administration does start a war with Iran, Bolton will be devastated that he can’t take credit for it.
1
The real question is: who benefits with a US-Iran war? Certainly not an almost starved Iran, or a polarized US. Israel and Saudi Arabia in the other hand stand to gain the most, politically and militarily, if they can get the US to fight that war. Thereby the “confusion” or lack of evidence as to from where the missiles were launched. Trump knows it and by know he is calculating the cost-benefits of taking us to war. The sensible solution would be to let those repressive governments destroy each other. We have nothing in common with them.
6
@Son of A. Bierce the bigger unknown in all of this is russia. if trump decided to attack iran, how will russia respond? will they support and defend iran like they are doing with assad in syria? if trump thinks his horrid bromance with putin and his open support for him will save him, he's a bigger and more dangerous fool that anyone gives him credit for being.
1
@Steve. You are absolutely right. Putin will not side with his good friend. In fact he will arm Iran and provide diplomatic support. And why not? It is in his best interest to embarrass the US. That’s why we need to stay away from that powder keg, also known as The Middle East. In the meantime democrats are wasting time pursuing another witch hunt that can only help Trump’s re-election.
But...Iran strongly denies doing this. I thought Trump believed those who strongly deny...Why, I'm starting to think that maybe Trump "believes" those he wants to believe, which means Trump wanted to believe Putin over America w/r/t Putin's attack on America. Anyway, just noting that Trump seems to have dropped the "strong denial" thing and is now all about "evidence".
5
Trump says that the U.S. will not be affected. Then, he speaks about a proportionate response. Mathematically, that should be a zero response.
16
Whether the US should be involved or not is one matter, but we should remeber that Iran and its proxy Hezbollah have bases and influence in Latin America (in Venzuela, in the tri-border region of S America, and other spots), not so far from our borders.
The Iranians have demonstrated their capability not just to create bases outside their territory and find proxies there, but to direct from those bases large scale military attcks whose effects have strategic implications (like wiping out Saudi oil wealth, or hitting the Israeli refinery in Haifa to cause mass civilian casualties as Hezbollah has openly mentioned, hitting its nuclear facilities, etc). It is obvious that they have plans for developing ways to strike at us "The Great Satan" too.
Maybe they are too strong for us to counter without casualties we aren't ready to bear, and we need to give in to their various demands - which will perhaps increase over the years as they get stronger.
They also have a new alliance with Russia, and perhaps Turkey will be part of that instead of being in NATO.
Whether we should be their allies or foes or neutral, we should take all this into account now.
[BTW: One thing we can do to reduce tensions is to push for the construction - finally - of one of the various projects designed to bypass the straits of Hormuz, so oil can flow to Europe and elsewhere without chancing a violation of Iranian sovereignty.]
‘No clear public message emerged from Saudi Arabia on what response the Saudis prefer.’
I think it will be for America to wage war against Iran on MBS’s behalf.
2
@Lazza May
Then Trump can get another sword dance photo op.
1
@Lazza May
And Bebe's.
1
Saudi Arabia is less trustworthy than Iran. I believe Iran when they say they had nothing to do with the oil field attack. The US is quick to blame Iran for supporting Yemen in a proxy war.
All the while nobody dares mention the US openly supports the Saudis in the same proxy war. Let's remember, it's US fighter jets bombing and killing folks in Yemen, not Iran's military. Israel is not a big help here either. This is not good foreign policy.
9
It's not in Trump's vocabulary to say, "I don't know." But clearly, he doesn't know.
3
This is the reason trump has no business selling nuclear weapon technology to Saudi Arabia.
8
Trump will do anything to be reelected, up to and including starting a war with Iran.
4
@Lan Sluder You think this is going to be popular why? He ran on getting us out of foreign wars. He’s threatening to pull out of Afghanistan. Now a new war with Iran is going to MAGA? Trump doesn’t even have a Dick Cheney to sell it to his gullible followers.
Just like before the-Iraq war, the war loving media is spreading false rumors about the US intelligence sources stating that the attacks were launched from Iran without an iota of evidence.
Now, let us assume that the undetected attacks came from Iran on the other side of the Persian Gulf. If so, how come the US and Saudis didn't notice them? How come there is no satellite photos of the launching of 'missiles' or drones from Iran especially when the US always 'produces' their version of satellite photos? Further, if we assume that the reporting is 'true', then the US is grossly underestimating the Iranian capabilities to retaliate in case the US foolishly attacks Iran. In addition to the media false propaganda, just like before the Iraq war, some Democratic Party lawmakers like Adam Schiff are blaming Iran without an iota of evidence. It is shameful that the media and some lawmakers of both parties like Lindsey Graham and Adam Schiff are jumping the gun.
Finally, it should be noted that Eastern Saudi Arabia has large Shia population who are badly treated by the Saudi regime. Not only that, those who protest are branded as terrorists and some of them jailed or executed. For example, this year, "Saudi Arabia has brutally executed 134 people so far, including 6 who were kids when they were arrested.
The slain were tortured and slaughtered by brutal methods like crucifixion and beheading, according to a human rights organization. " Well, they could have helped the Yemenis.
4
We should find alternatives to oil, get our troops out of the Middle East and let the Arabs, Persians and others to drink their oil.
Let the Saudi's fight their own war without our money and troops.
7
And the beat goes on. I'm guessin' war about next June.
Maybe Iran is responsible. Maybe it isn't. But one thing is for sure: If you have your wits about you, you can not trust Trump and his Administration.
14
We have oil. MBS has done nothing to demonstrate he is our friend. And there is little appetite in this country to start another war. So why would we even consider warn with Iran?
...oh, wait. Wasn’t it the Saudis who rolled out the red carpet and made Trump feel like a rockstar when he visited?
11
I have dealt with the Saudis since 1995 and have made three trips to the Kingdom. I do NOT trust anything the Saudis or the Saudis state about anything! No more Middle East wars for the United States! No more American soldiers die for Saudi Arabia! No more American treasure spent on the Saudis!
11
Why would anyone believe a word he says?
9
Trump knows that Saudi Arabia is responsible for the indiscriminate killing of thousands of Yemeni men, women and children by the Saudis, using munitions and aircraft supplied by US vendors.
Trump knows that he, Bolton, Pompeo and Netanyahu are responsible for taking the USA out of the Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action , known commonly as the P5+1 Iran nuclear deal, that was signed in 2015, and to which Iran was adhering. This cabal did this to precipitate the current state of Iranian aggression we are seeing.
Now, apparently, Trump will make the USA Israel's proxy, by taking the USA into their war with Iran.
Trump doesn't have a clue what he is doing, or how many American lives he is going to waste over the next several years. Neither does the Tea Party's Evangelical war monger, Pompeo. Bibi is ecstatic - it might keep him out of jail too!
11
@Joe Miksis
Exactly.
4
@Joe Miksis
Exactly. And Pompeo and Pence are awaiting The Rapture.
5
@Joe Miksis
Exactly. And Pompeo and Pence are awaiting The Rapture,or expediting it.
2
Never trust US intelligence.
How can the US justify defending Saudi Arabia, ever? After all it was 15 Saudi’s out of the 19 who we’re involved in 911? Now the US wants the world to believe that their evidence is honest and truthful! We remember the “irrefutable proof of WMD’s” in Iraq they proven to be lies, then there’s the doctored images about troops massing on their border Saudi supplied to the Saudi’s to get their Kings permission, so the US could attack Iraq. As a result of those Saudi men’s actions on 911, the US and it allies have been at War with Afghanistan since 2001 (18yrs). Now you have the biggest liar as POTUS, American intelligence tells it’s own story to suit its own agenda, truth does not matter when it comes to securing the US oil supplies. But stop using your allies young men and women as mere “collateral damage” in your insatiable quest for OIL.
3
Who cares if it's Iran! Stop the madness. The United States does not need rich people to start a war as a favor to other rich people. My god stop it already.
6
Yes, and a Hurricane is going to take out Alabama.
I recall Colin Powell standing before the UN making as bold a statement; so the USA could go on to fight the never-ending Mideast wars.
Youtube still has that interview with Cmdr. Wesley Clark from before 9/11 where he exposes the government plans to engulf the Mideast in war.
4
How much do you want to bet that Trump falsifies classifies intel to try and prove his point- all edits made in Sharpie.
6
SINCE WHEN ARE OUR SONS AND DAUGHTERS SENT OUT AS MERCENARIES?? DO.NOT.GO.
9
What is this about? It is about a president who will make a personal real estate deal and put at risk the whole of his own country. He is deranged. The question is who will stop him? Apparently, when old men go off to die they take the whole country with them. Just ask Barr who said “everyone dies.”
4
"The Saudis pay cash."
That's some moral foreign policy from Dear Leader.
It's time to get rid of Dear Leader. No American should die for 'cash'. If MBS wants a war, let him and his followers fight the war.
7
The Saudis can’t fight their own wars because they have no pilots.
Their pilots all died on 9/11
11
Yes, the hurricane will damage Alabama!
Regrettably, the Pres permanently lost his credibility years ago!
4
Trump Says Iran Appears Responsible for Saudi Attack"
The headline tells the tail - Tramp said it - so it's not true
4
Trump and his sleazy buddy MBS, two know-nothings, that conspired to withdraw the US from the Iran agreement, are going to drag the US into yet another war. Maybe the only good effect will be the end of DT in 2020.
1
I don't believe him. He's a lair. I don't care as a taxpayer about the terrorist state of Saudi killers 15 of which are responsible for 9/ 11. They have billions in arms sales from America already go solve your own problems.
11
Remarkably we are now energy self sufficient.
We don’t need to import oil.
China on the other hand needs oil like man needs air.
Let China figure this one out, and let us sit it out.
18
The president says the U.S. is ready for war if need be. If bombing from the air and popping off missiles from the sea is considered war, then clearly America is ready for war. However, bombs and missiles will not win a war with Iran. Unlike Iraq, Syria and Afghanistan, American soldiers will see a standing Iran Army that knows how to fight and has the will to fight and is a major military power. There will be no American soldiers dying in Iran. America fighters landing on the shores of Iran will never happen. The other weapons of war will make little difference. Perhaps diplomacy is a better idea. The plan under Obama wasn't perfect, but it was good enough.
21
It seems the real issue here is the control of oil. The answer is to shift the world’s economy away from oil dependence and towards renewables. Then the Middle East will become far less significant and not worth fighting over. And we might even save the planet from climate change too.
19
Can we go back to the Obama arranged nuclear agreement? Anything would be better than this hysterical escalation towards conflict and possibly war.
And this is to support the amoral Saudis and the oil industry oligarchs?
What a chaotic foreign policy this is!
Truly this is pathetic and very Trumpian!
31
Actually, I'm going to hold Trump responsible. He backed out of a treaty with Iran and imposed crippling new sanctions on them for the simple, selfish reason that he intends to undo everything that Obama did.
Which has prompted Iran to adopt what we might call the North Korea strategy: deliberately antagonize the United States, knowing the US doesn't really want a war, in an effort to force them to (you guessed it) negotiate your way out of the sanctions.
Since Trump trashed the previous treaty, we've seen Iran attack a US aircraft (a drone, but still something that would have been unthinkable 2 years ago), oil tankers in the Gulf, and now Saudi refineries.
That's if we feel like we can believe US intelligence on this, which the president himself only seems to believe when it says what he wants it to. Which is a big if.
32
@Joe M.
Actually, given the facts, I have read from other news sources, some outside the US, President Trump is acting very presidential and professionally.
This attack was a very skillfully executed attack. Not even the Israelis who attacked Lebanon's airports in 2006 accomplished so much damages as this attack on the world's oil reserve in Saudia Arabia.
This is like 9/11. An attack on a Sunday -? Monday? without a military detection of the attack - no response whatsoever?
And drones?
This is an entirely new level of war. No one should be taking this as a political ploy. The US should assist the Saudis because there are no others who will, probably because the Russians are assisting Iran.
This is much ado about nothing. The right-wing pundits have been crowing about how we are the "biggest energy exporters" in the world "under Trump." If this is true, then why should we care?
The Saudis slaughtered a journalist. The Saudis have bought "billions" in weapons from us,right? Let them deal with it. Why should we continue being the private security forces for the oil companies?
This "big brained" genius caused this by withdrawing from the Iran nuclear agreement. Maybe he will ask the Taliban to broker a peace deal,eh.
20
How can we believe anything he says?
25
@andrew
Exactly. There is not one member of this debacle of an administration who can get near the truth. Every one of them is a self serving liar.
2
I recall Iraq had WMDs until they didn't. Same lies, different country. This must be more fake stuff Donnie keeps whining about...except now he is the source.
14
Believe nothing he or his administration champions.
Too many thousands of lies, upon lies.
22
What am I missing ? This appears to be a conflict between Saudi Arabia and Iran/ Yemen. How are we involved, other than the assnine comments from trump and the Sec.of State. Both stupid. Actually, any sensible country would let them handle this themselves, with diplomatic help by others as needed or requested. This incompetent administration of our's has to end.
22
Don’t worry folks, Trump knows more than the generals. We can trust grifter-in-chief-sharpie-boy with the call here.
11
@Josh Wilson
Don't forget he's a stable genius....he said so.
War is NOT the answer. War is harmful to children and other living things.
7
Trump cares most about his popularity and reelection chances, thus I highly doubt Trump will start a war, especially a long protracted one. Actually the biggest way Trump can turn off swing voters, especially those in the Midwest, other than threatening to take their guns or insurance would be by starting another war of adventure with Iran. At best, Trump will talk tough and maybe lob a few cruise missiles at unmanned sites outside of Iranian territory, but that's about it.
3
Wrong. Trump cares most about staying out of jail... which is where he’ll eventually end up.
1
Iran shot down an unmanned drone and Saudi Arabia used a bone saw to dismember an American Citizen and lied about it. It's crazy to me that the drones that attacked the Oil plants could have cost as little as $15k to make. Meanwhile ours are 30x that and have made nothing for progress... well what's the point of our wars anyway?
7
Trump has absolutely zero credibility. He is an extraordinary pathological liar, perhaps the greatest in history. Who would believe him at this point? He who lies about the direction of a hurricane would lie about the time of day it is. He needs help and anyone who believes one word this liar has to say needs help as well.
12
Hmmm, let's see. When Saudi Arabia sent a hit squad to the Turkish embassy to assassinate Khashoggi, and Trump's hand-picked director of the CIA (Gina Haspel) confirmed that MBS directed the hit, Trump equivocated by saying that "We weren't sure", and forgot about it.
When all our intelligence agencies said Russia interfered in our election, we had exactly one government official who refused to believe them, no matter how much they were all in agreement.
But now, when the Saudis suffer a setback from whomever is behind it, Trump says that it's "Looking like [Iran is to blame]", and it's "being checked out right now".
Why does Trump even bother to keep the intelligence agencies in business anymore? He completely hollowed out the State Department, which served a high purpose, if you believe diplomacy beats war. But since Trump believes nobody but his erratic, confused, temperamental self, why have all these government agencies full of experienced, dedicated, intelligent people? Why bother with the pretense that they'll ever be used to serve the function they were built to serve?
15
It would be a grave shame for me as an American to find that my government is ready to go to wart to defend the interest of a murderous and corrupt dictatorship like the kingdom of Saudi Arabia, whose main leader has still the blood of a journalist that worked for a respectable American newspaper. the Saudi's regime and ideology are the source of the worst terrorism, from Al Qaeda to Isis. These are terrorists that see he Iranian Shiites as their greatest enemies. And the Houthis in Yemen are fighting the spin-offs of Al Qaeda. The Saudis keep killing civilians in Yemen, without any restraint and we are their supporters. What a shame already.
13
HEY DONALD!!!!
No war, unless Alabama may be threatened.
In which case, Who-Rah.
8
Trump is in a real quandary here.
On the one hand, Mohammed bin Salman has offered Trump Hotel and Golf Course real estate beyond Trump's wildest dreams.
That was why Trump stayed quiet after bin Salman had Jamal Khashoggi slaughtered - cut up alive, with his body parts scattered though out the Turkish countryside.
Now bin Salman wants the United States to go to war with Iran.
But then on the other hand, there's Putin.
Putin has proclaimed that he is a friend of Iran, and that Trump and everyone else should just "back off".
The last time Putin told Trump to "back off" was in Venezuela, and Trump did as he was told.
So what is Trump going to do?
He'll do what he's done in the past - talk real tough, and do nothing.
That might make Mohammed bin Salman feel like Trump has his back, a little bit.
And it will definitely keep Putin happy, knowing that his favorite patsy is still following orders.
14
And I should believe Trump? He lies all the time and tries to get the other government leaders to lie for him too. I'll wait until other governments with more reliable leaders come to the table.
8
Remember 9/11 and the Saudi complacency.
I hope our military doesn’t forget
7
Crazy Trump can “avoid conflict” with Iran by doing his job and upholding his oath of office.
This is Saudi Arabia’s problem to deal with and the USA should STAND DOWN ....
We are not the world’s police force and heaven not knows we have been more wrong than right whenever we use our military might and commit our precious resources/money and men/women in foreign adventures.
#NotOurFight
6
It makes me feel sick to think the U.S. could allow itself to be pulled into yet another useless war with devastating loss of life.
If, as this articles suggests, Pres.Trump is thus far taking a moderate position that would avoid military action in the Middle East, he is to be praised for his reticence. I fervently pray he firmly maintains that stance.
It makes me feel sick to think the U.S. could allow itself to be pulled into yet another useless war with tremendous costs to human life.
4
@SC Reader that has nothing to do with Trump avoiding war. Trump dodged the draft during the Vietnam War. The man is a constitutional coward, and cowards are always reluctant to order someone else to go where they would never tread.
Looks like John Bolton resigned a few days too soon. He would have fulfilled his life-long dream to attack Iran.
3
It all started when they hit back. If only the Saudis were left alone while they killed women and children.
4
This administration is totally corrupt. Netanyahu is grasping at straws to get re-elected while being indicted. Who does that sound like? Could Trump and his sycophants start a war just to save their election? The answer is yes.
If the Republican led Senate does not wake up and stand up, we are no better than Russia. I am continually shocked at the apathy, the cow towing to a family everyone knew was willing to sell property to good people that was nothing more than a sink hole. Think about that - ripping off people all over the wold to make a buck and this is who you elected as president. Never in my lifetime did I think this was possible. And what of our children?
11
Why is Saudi Arabia buying our expensive weaponry to then fail to advocate for themselves?
7
@Joe, the Saudis aren't buying weapons. They are buying influence. They'd buy big rock candy mountains if that's what the military industrial complex was selling.
2
Why are "we" as he claims prepared for war?
This is a Saudi problem, not a USA problem. The Saudis have, for centuries, considered ALL Shi'a to be lesser beings. The Houthis, who happen to be Shi'a, with Iran's support, were wrong to take up arms against the government of Yemen.
This is not our problem. The US already produces more crude oil than SA presently does. I'm surprised that American oilmen aren't welcoming a war that destroys Saudi Arabia AND demand the President's ear so they can scream in it "It is to OUR advantage to stay the hell out of this one." The oilmen would be happy to fill the void, to the tune of several trillions of dollars. They'll even be able to sell smaller amounts of crude for much more money because people still demand and expect it to be available everywhere.
Trump needs to be reminded every waking moment that this isn't our business, nor our business to solve, whether continuing American policy to give SA what they want is just a strategy to get SA from provoking Israel or not, as is the billions given to Egypt and Jordan for the same.
8
Can someone articulate the legal basis the administration would have to militarily attack Iran even in the event they have directly launched the missile/drone strike on the Saudi refineries? It's not an attack on the US and Iran was never included in the 911 war authorization to my knowledge. Wouldn't such an attack require congressional approval?
9
Hard for me to understand the rhyme or reason for going to war on behalf of the Saudis. Is our national security at stake? Is attacking Iran justified? We supplied the Saudi regime with extensive weaponry, are they incapable of using it? Do we wish to again destabilize the region and energize all of the people over there who hate us? No to all of the above. And no to any support for the Saudis who would turn on us in a moments notice. We had no business going in there in 2003 and we have less reason to go there now.
11
Saudi Arabia has the weapons to defend itself and if so chose, retaliate at whoever bombed the oil facilities. I thought that MAGA means we only care when we, Americans, are attacked. The MAGA fans should insist on what Trump promised. The question is whether they will blindly support whatever Trump does, or will they only support the promise of MAGA?
6
Only way down in the article is there even a vage mention of the atrocities commited by the „saudi caolition“ for years on end, probably already having resulted in hundreds of thousands of deaths, and no mention of the United States‘ supporting role in said coalition. Great job, NYT.
4
The play that the NYT is giving Trump's unsubstantiated accusations against Iran, which are designed to push us into a war to benefit himself and his pals in Saudi Arabia, is as irresponsible as the NYT's "Trump Urges Unity Versus Racism" headline last month. I wanted to cancel my subscription, but they offered a huge discount if I stayed -- I stayed and now regret it. Where is the consistent editorial stance that upholds reason and moral integrity? Where is the stand against corruption that will hold fast no matter what? Instead, the NYT consistently undermines its good staff, its faithful readers, and, indeed, America itself, by its own poor editorial judgment and poorly timed shows of cowardice.
6
Someone needs to explain to me why Saudi Arabia needs our help with this. I'm sick and tired of supporting rogue nations with deplorable human rights records. They've got lots of money, let them send their young men to be killed.
14
@PeteG Saudi men have zero skills. So they’re not capable of waging war on their own. Frankly all the more reason to let them fend for themselves. Self-help or death is what Americans like to preach, right?
5
But Mr. Trump also said he would “like to avoid” a military conflict with Tehran and reiterated his interest in diplomacy.
Getting 72 virgins at the hands of the Americans may not be as sure as potential Iranian martyrs thought. A gratification plan B for its revolutionary guard might be wise to start planning. Such unrequited pent up frustration self-imploding is probably more powerful than any nuclear devise Iran may be otherwise planning to build.
1
@John Doe:
Were there a genuine war to break out over this, one side will be gravely disappointed (pun, yes, intended) to discover, despite their penchant for martyrdom, that the supply of virgins has long since dried up, due insufficient production capacity vis-à-vis the endless number of soldiers sacrificing themselves.
What an eternal, infernal bummer that'll be . . .
And of course Donald we all believe you.
9
Trump should just ask Bibi Netanyahu! He's sure to get a straight, honest, unbiased answer.
16
A) According to the president I thought we were supposed to be energy independent now B) If we sold the Saudis $Billions in arms, why can't they defend themselves?
11
@Dennis Hinkap:
Oh, come now: you're being far too logical . . .
1
So please tell me, why, even if Iran provided support for the Houthi drone attack (not that I am certain that I believe that anyway), we are obliged or obligated to 'go to war' against them. Thus is messed up. The grownups better step in.
10
@NLL:
Oh, come now: certainly you're by now fully aware that finding grown-ups in the current clown-car that is this administration is about as likely as finding the Holy Grail.
Or Jimmy Hoffa.
Take your pick.
Nobody has any doubt that you can identify who shot a missile in 2019 within about fifteen minutes. Come on, stop playing games with the public like we are a bunch of idiots. If I even think of a product I'm remotely interested in it magically shows up in my news feed. War with Iran would completely destabilize the entire world and you know it. Keep your chaos to yourself, destabilizing the world will not get you re-elected. It will cost untold numbers of lives.
6
He doctored the photos with a Sharpie
7
Trump/Bibi losing = war with Iran
9
War Power Act? Did the president tweet that he was sending a Tonkin Gulf Resolution look alike to enter into further military activity in the Middle East? I bet the Democrats are dreaming he pull the trigger on a whim. His tax returns will look like child play compared to the potential constitutional breach.
3
I find myself unsure whether to believe anything this president says.
5
The US is the world's largest exporter of oil. Why would Trump even consider fighting for Saudi Arabia, the home of the 9/11 team?
10
@Mike
Because he's a traitor?
9
Saudi Arabia, UAE, and Israel have been committing war crimes in their roll back of the Arab Spring and would like to manipulate the American people into another war of aggression in the ME. No more war for these militants.
3
And Alabama almost got destroyed by Dorian.
4
Fear not. Trump will never start a war. He has no stomach for being undeniably tied to any seismic decision that could become a national disaster. All his decisions must have a fall guy when things go badly.
3
Can´t you all see that the problem is Israel´s Occupation of Palestinian land ? Do you really think that all this would be
happening if Israel had made peace with the Palestinians ?
9
American troops are not mercenaries for the Saudis nor Israeli.
14
It appears that American soldiers are cannon fodder for Israel, Saudi Arabia, etc...
Trump offered Netanyahu a mutual defense pact which means the US would have to fight Israel's wars so that Israels sons and daughters will be free to enjoy free healthcare and college paid for using US foreign aid to Israel.
4
Look, Trump had to start this war at some point in his Presidency to pay back Saudi, UAE, and Israel for helping to get him elected and for all of the money they have given him all of these years.
Not surprising he's going to do it to try to get an election bump.
But like most things Trump tries to do, this will blow up in his face as well.
10
A reasonable person would assume that if trump said it, it's a lie. He lied today saying he never said he would meet with Iran without preconditions when in fact, it's on film coming from his mouth. The international community need to shut their mouths. No one did anything about Syrian refugees being pummeled by assad and now there's outrage about the Yemen situation? Unless and until we get some rational people in office who are tired of war, nothing will change. With no due respect, trump needs to stop talking.
9
Very suspicious timing of this drone attack blamed on Iran, just days before the Israeli elections and right after Bolton resigned. Stupid games and creating a pretext to hit Iran and or bolster Netanyahu.
11
For many years remotely guided drones have been effectively used for precise attacks against mobile military targets. This weekend’s attack appears to be the first time that a synchronized group of drones were used to attack critical infrastructure. Have we just witnessed a disruptive moment in modern warfare for which conventional defense systems were completely unprepared to repel such an attack? How does one effectively monitor and defend against such a micro-attack? Satellite or drone-based laser anti-drone weapons? Looks like we’ve just entered a new era in modern warfare in which conventional Patriot missile systems will not suffice. Maybe it’s best to stop provoking Iran with crippling economic sanctions and oil embargo until we figure it out. As with damaging reparations imposed on Germany after WWI, there may be prudent limits to punitive sanctions.
6
@One Eyed Man, but stealth jet technology is not completely wasted. They still make for great holiday parade flyovers . . . those and blimps. Talk about irony.
2
@One Eyed Man:
On the whole I agree with your sentiments and observations.
Even so, with the notable exception of not being able (yet) accurately shooting down incoming ICBM nuclear warheads -- which travel at up to 14,000 mph (4/mps), militaries usually -- given enough time and money -- eventually devise effective (if not perfect) defense systems.
Not dismissing the extent of damages a sortie of a flock of weapon-laden drones could inflict, it's likely that missing a few incoming drones would not wreck even an iota of a small nuclear warhead.
Granted this is small consolidation -- especially if one happens to be in the targeted area.
Naturally the next option would be for the human race be such that it be suddenly and permanently enlightened to the fact that wars are archaic and wholly unnecessary, and counter to our ongoing existence -- and prima facie evidence that as a species we're insane.
(It's no wonder that no "ETs" in spaceships have stopped by to visit -- we're the universe's template for ONE FLEW OVER THE COOCOO'S NEST [and/or DR. STRANGELOVE] . .
1
When will someone put an estimated price tag -the one thing that speaks to the present far-right administration- on the financial loss caused by sending hundreds of thousands of Americans into war to "nation build" ?
Personally I'm more concerned by multi-generational PTSD since violence begets violence. What of the families without parents? Or those who can no longer work? The cost of healthcare paid by taxpayers to keep all of the wounded alive and cogent?
7
I suspect the Iranians understand the American people do NOT share Trump's fondness for the Saudi Kingdom. They can push the envelope believing a proportionate response with U. S. support is not likely.
In May of 2017, President Trump and Saudi prince Salman bin Abdulaziz Al Saud signed letters of intent to purchase arms from the United States totaling $110 billion immediately, and $350 billion over 10 years. Sounds to me like they ought to be able to take care of themselves.
12
Why would the US have a thing to do with this situation? Trump and your crooked administration have sold billions in war machines to the murderous Saudis.....they can deal with this as they see fit..
8
Can we believe them? Should we allow to go to another war on this administration word? Absolutely NOT!
6
The Saudis have been bombing Yemeni civilians, hospitals, wedding parties, schools, and blockading the country preventing food and medicine from the country. Hundreds of thousands of Yemenis are on the verge of starvation. We all saw the stories by Nicolas Kristof. They are reaping what they, themselves, have sown. No way, no how, should we be dragged into this quagmire. Unfortunately, the Democrats seem to be siding with Trump on this, as they did with Bush and the Iraq war. This is going to be a catastrophic debacle if we get pulled into this.
11
One thing is certain: Iran is not responsible for this act. The proof?
Trump says that they are, and we now know that this President lies about everything.
8
With a little bit of luck, the Iranians have already imported drones into the US and will direct them at the appropriate places should Trump initiate yet another war in the Middle East.
2
Republicans keep repeating it's not the gun, it's the guy who pulls the trigger. Why should this be any different?
3
What, no strong and/or powerful denial?
I love all of the comments below who think that Trump is going to start a war so he can be a war-time president going into an election.
Wake up people! He already IS a war time president. Last I knew, we are fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan. Trump launched missiles at Syria already, he dropped the "MOAB" on Afghanistan and was even going to sit and have tea with the enemy on the anniversary of the worst attack on our soil since Pearl Harbor.
How does he look any better with yet another war? Trump is the 4th president to be dealing with Afghanistan. Voters had no problem switching between Repubs and Dems for the last 20 years while they all say they will end the war. Yeah, vote Biden so he can do what he said he was gonna do 10 years ago.
3
This entire fiasco smells of Israel's involvement and complicity. Why fight their wars when the United States will do it for them.
11
Saudi problem. Not ours. Nasty murderous regime. Got what they deserved.
12
Saudi Arabia has been bombing Yemen with American weapons, where an estimated 50,000 civillians have died, ~ no one cares.
Yemen has bombed a Saudi oilfield with Iranian weapons and people are upset because the price of gas is going up.
9
Trump says the Iranians should be held responsible for the actions of forces in the region that they support, including the Yemeni rebels.
Well then the US should be held responsible also, for the actions of forces in the region that they support, including the Saudis
5
It might be more cost effective to spend the $ we are about to blow on a war towards finding alternatives to Oil. This would go a long way towards creating new jobs, cleaning the env, and boosting our energy security.
I do not think Americans have much appetite for more oil wars.
10
What would Putin want Trump to do? Our foreign policy is based on that right now...
6
Canada is at war with the Saudis. The Canadian head of Intelligence has charges against him for leaking intelligence. We share intelligence with the USA, Australia, New Zealand and the UK. I know some of the Canada's elite civil service and can easily be persuaded that Cameron Ortis is heroic not criminal.
3
Feels like 6/7/1981. Just watch.
3
One of the days, some imbecile is going to miscalulate and open Pandoras box, and there happens to be an imbecile currently acting as President of the United States of America, able to do it.
We had better pray he is not allowed to.
5
Oh, c'mon: Just tell Bibi that if he wants to annex the West Bank, he has to do the dirty work.
8
Come to think of it, if Iran and Saudi Arabia mutually destroy each other, it couldn’t be that bad, right?
3
Liberals need to make a choice.
Do they support the USA?
Or do they prefer to defend Iran.
It’s a very simple choice.
So simple many here have already made it clear who they prefer.
4
Well, it’s clear that Trump and the crown prince lie a lot more than the Iranians do. So while I trust neither side, I’ll take the word of the Iranian government over Trump’s any day.
And before you spout “dictators,” please remember that Trump trusts the word of Putin and North Korea over American intelligence officers and the US military.
22
Not quite that black and white Dr.
16
I support keeping us out of another endless, unwinnable war in the Middle East. This "support the USA" tripe is simply nationalistic nonsense. If we're attacked then let's defend ourselves. Meanwhile we're invading sovereign nations, making the world more chaotic, and creating more enemies and terrorists. And pardon me for not taking the word of a president who lies constantly about everything large and small and a authoritarian Middle East regime that bombs civilians. Just because Saudi Arabia is our drug (oil) dealer doesn't mean we do their dirty work.
16
Trump apparently would love to make up any excuse to go to war with Iran. Why he’s so determined to do that is completely beyond me. But all that aside, given the propensity of Trump and his evil cabal to lie about literally everything to get what they want, I don’t believe for a minute that they have any real proof that Iran is directly responsible, especially since somebody else is claiming responsibility. The last thing this country needs is another endless, astronomically destructive war in the Middle East. If Yemen and Saudi Arabia want to battle each other, let them, but we need to stay out of it. And we don’t need to use their fight as some lame-brained excuse to attack somebody else.
875
@WesternMass Why? Because he wants to start a war to wag the dog with an election coming up..
149
@WesternMass Trump doesn't want to go to war with Iran. In his cornered-rat intelligence, he knows it would be a quagmire and he'd end his days hiding out like George W. Bush.
No, what Trump wants is the distraction of THREATS of war. Just as his "deals" with Kim, his back-and-forth with China trade -- it all keeps the media sizzling and keeps the American people chasing stories like kids chasing butterflies.
171
@WesternMass
His base, today, hates war. They realized that they were the most hit by the Afghanistan & Iraq war. The middle class waved the flag, pocketed the tax-cuts and working class & farming class was left to pick up the tab.
We saw that in the drone incident. When push came to shove Trump balked. He has to raise “sound and fury” but they “signify nothing”.
He knows that if he goes to war then he kisses his reelection goodbye.
45
I am amazed that the US military, with a great deal of infrastructure and numerous units in the Persian Gulf, is unable to provide evidence of these drones' flight path. A great deal more will be at risk around the globe if the highly sophisticated early warning systems cannot detect drones, let alone be unable to shoot them down.
9
There was no tweet by John Bolton, but he probably wanted to say "This is what happened, without me."
2
oh...so all the talk about wanting to get out of Afghanistan is never gonna happen.
1
Welll, if Trump says so, it must be true.
6
And the reason we need to go to war for the Saudis is:
1. They can't afford to defend themselves?
2. They have been a peace loving nation and never invaded and helped destroy another sovereign nation?
3. They have plenty of citizens...men and women...they can draft to defend themselves?
4. We own the oil fields that were destroyed?
5. We need their oil?
6. Their oil doesn't contribute to climate change?
7. They are investing in a Trump hotel?
10
God help us all.
7
I bet someone will corner the Sharpie market.
3
And where is the precedent for believing anything that comes out of Trump's mouth? I'm sure that my comment, in one variation or another, will flood your in box.
6
“Trump says”. Ha! I don’t believe anything this professional liar has to say. He’s been itching to get into a war with Iran since he became president, curse the evil day. Everything out of his mouth is a lie.
5
Putin wants higher oil prices
6
Trump says a lot of stuff.
2
Amateur Night at the White House continues.
2
Trump: serial liar who just tried to alter a hurricane map with a sharpie.
The Saudis: the 9/11 hijackers who like to chop up journalists inside embassies.
We’re going to listen to A to run to the aid of B? Please. We have zero business getting into a war with Iran. Just stop.
10
Trump also says that the NYT is the "enemy of the State", that there is no such thing as "Global Warming", that Barack Obama was born in Kenya, that Alabama would be decimated by the last hurricane, that you get cancer from wind turbines, that Social Security should be CUT, that spending more time golfing instead of working is OK, ad infinitum.
I DON'T BELIEVE ANYTHING HE SAYS without incontrovertible proof - which he cannot provide. No narcissistic sociopath is going to send this country into a fake war based on his total lack of credibility. HE LIES.
PROVE IT TO ME and I MIGHT reconsider, based only upon FACTS.
9
"Trump says"
So it is obviously the truth.
Thank you NYTs!
3
When you talk of Saudi Arabia think only ONE thing... The Twin Towers!
11
Who's behind this? My money is on Israel. Write it down.
9
Let me get this straight, it is okay for the Saudis to bomb Yemen everyday to smithereens and mostly killing civilians, hitting school bus with children but when there is a retaliatory strike by the Yemenis, “Ohh Hell No! This is an act of war!” Geez, what have you guys been smoking. I don’t know about you but a War is not a one way street. Maybe we’ve been used to a “Shock and Awe” that we think that that is how wars are, but again as you guys like to coin it, “All is Fair in Love and War”. Get over it and be prepared for more volatility.
11
I feel pretty terrible about my tax dollars being spent to prop up a bunch of spoiled washed up sheiks who couldn’t fight for themselves if they had to. But the reality is that America is ruled by its military industrial complex and they have apparently about decided they need to burn off some inventory. Never mind that it would be in support of the wahabbists who flew the planes into the buildings. I called my sorry senator Tillis today and asked his staffer why we aren’t on the side of the houthis who clearly have a morally superior position in this fiasco. Bottom line: if not for American military presence, weapons and support, the Middle East would be a much safer place.
15
His aim is to secure a second term at any cost.
4
@Orbis Deo Wrong. The second term is in the bag. What he's looking for is a dictatorship so that he can have a third term.
1
Here is the fearful juncture long predicted. The unstable opposite-of-genius is about to involve us in a new war. He's already lying and obfuscating. He's surrounded himself with unqualified and untested sycophants whose defense will be "I was just following orders." THIS is why impeachment should have already been vigorously and unrelentingly pursued.
4
We simply should not stand for any engagement in this conflict, what so ever.
2
“They stuck strongly to that story knowing that it was a very big lie. Now they say that they had nothing to do with the attack on Saudi Arabia. We’ll see” ... (from Trump tweet)
I laughed when I read that - most of the things Trump says are a ‘very big lie’. Makes me wonder if Trump has ANY self-awareness at all.
First, an attack on Saudi Arabia is not an attack on the United States. Let them retaliate if they want and then watch the world explode. Second, Trump cannot be believed.
8
This is an issue between Saudi Arabia and Iran and/or the Houthi. US: stay out. Do not spend the lives of our soldiers, our tax dollars or what support we have internationally on this intervention.
6
this administration and the government of saudi arabia are very quick to determine who supposedly blew up some of the saudi oil, whereas it took a long time for them to even figure out that government officials murdered a Washington Post Journalist and sawed up his body, etc. please name the Saudi officials who have been convicted and sentenced in this horrific murder in Turkey. i suspect that Trump and the leaders of Saudi Arabia are still buddies and do not care about the murder.
follow the money.
i wonder how many people have been killed in foreign countries. does this mean that the USA did the killing?
2
"Trump Says Iran Appears Responsible for Attack on Saudi Oil Facilities" - 100% guaranteed that he is lying and it's something opposite.
4
Ever heard of a ‘false flag operation’?
A false flag is a covert operation designed to deceive; the deception creates the appearance of a particular party, group, or nation being responsible for some activity, disguising the actual source of responsibility.
Now listen to Pompeo in this video saying “I was the CIA director. We lied, we cheated, we stole”, knowing that now he is the impromptu NSA and impromptu Secretary of Defense ( who is investigating this drone attack).
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qfrhATD4nM0
2
For all we know, mr. Pompeii might have had a hand in this.
4
“The terrorist attack was not from Yemeni territory, as the Houthi militias claimed,” he said, adding that the Saudis were still “working to determine the launch point.”
Wait, wait, he knows where the attack DIDN’T come from, but not from where it DID originate? Just another example of “military intelligence” as a leading oxymoron.
6
Trump cannot be trusted: nor can any member of his
cabinet....so how about the assessment from the MPs in
the UK...; most of them can be trusted....Our US State Dept.
is just part of Trump's ever growing DC Swamp....
I would like anything Trump says or Pompeo says or any GOP
member of the US Congress says ...to be verified by our
UN and our allies...: yes the truth telling by the Trump administration is just that unreliable.
4
"....Iran appears to be responsible...". Iraq appears to have WMD". Xi assured Obama that the artificial islands in the South China Sea would not be militarized. Communist China assured Hong Kong and Tibet they would remain free and independent - aka 'one country two systems'....
2
Everybody knows the dice are loaded, the game's rigged, the boat's leaking...we've been through this before - Trump University.
3
This incident is eerily reminiscent of the Persian Gulf tanker drone attack about two months ago that turned out to be a complete farce and dropped as a foil by Trump because everybody saw right through the ruse.
I guess it was about a 1 ½ years ago or more Trump broke
This fake news is such a poor excuse to raise oil prices, but it’s nothing new. It’s been going on ever since I was a child and I’m a septuagenarian now. It’s always the same ruse. Oil refinery blew up in Louisiana, Texas, Saudi Arabia and the price goes up.
Coincidentally before this faked event, Putin shows up about 4 days ago at OPEC meeting. I’m still wondering, what in the world is Putin doing showing up at OPEC? Unless something very shady and criminal is going on. Just new lipstick on the same pig.
I have little doubt that SA blew up their own oil fields or did so in concert with Russia, Israel masquerading as Houthi rebels.
This whole scenario where the aggressor actually damages to his own property in order to point fingers at the non-aggressor and create the pretense that they are justified in defending themselves when in fact they are taking aggressive imperialistic action is also as old as the hills.
4
..."This spring, he imposed new sanctions, and Iran, which had continued to abide by the 2015 accord after the United States withdrawal, began stepping back from some of their obligations.''
The ''stepping back'' as the NYT papered it over, is enriching uranium in excess of the limits.
Trump’s policies at behest of GOPs right wingers, Saudis and Israelis set stage for these continuing Iranian confrontations.
3
I sure hope someone's watching the cash drawer while Trump manufactures another crisis for us.
5
So what? Not our problem.
5
Why again is this our business?
5
If it was indeed Iran who launched the attacks, it is very impressive.
2
Sorry to hear you’re not spending enough on intelligence, America and that your small p president requires instructions from a foreign entity.
Every day I wake up thinking I can’t be any more shocked, and every day I’m wrong.
Get the hook!
8
"Trump says Iran appears responsible for attack on Saudi oil facilities."
In Trump-speak, this translates as: "Iran is not responsible for attack on Saudi oil facilities."
Note: the Yemenis already said they did it and they take the responsibility.
Who to believe?
In 2.5 years in office, the Washington Post estimates Trump averages about 13 lies a day.
https://www.latimes.com/opinion/story/2019-08-16/trump-new-hampshire-speech-lies-background-checks-el-paso-dayton
Fool us once, shame on Trump
Fool us well over 10,000 times, shame on us.
Besides we were already lied into the Iraq war by G.W. Bush, Dick Cheney, and the neocons (which included John Bolton).
How dumb does Trump think we voters are?
5
Starting your article with "President Trump said" means that whatever followed had zero credibility.
3
1. Probably Iran did do this and they are invoking the Koranic doctrine of Takia which permits them to lie and deceive to carry out their little Shia Islamic agenda.
2. The facts are that Iran attacked Saudi Arabia, where almost all of the 9/11 terrorist murderers came from, not US. Why is this our business?
3
All Americans have to lose is their gas prices going up. Let those people in the Middle East solve their own problems with their own blood, not American blood. Enough is enough; no more dead, crippled, suicidal Americans.
Business community is already talking about retaliation; because what they see is money.
3
When your Presidency is a shame, borderline criminal, fairly psychopathic and you are about to lead the country into a major recession - go to the old standard playbook- start a war. Wag the dog.
6
You have to appreciate the gentleman manning the heavy machine gun has the style to be wearing a sport jacket.
1
Trump and those around him are incapable of handling this crisis... HELP!!!!
1
Unfortunately after sharpiegate and several thousand other deceits, Mr Trump may not necessarily be believed on this. Launching war on Iran may escalate very quickly as Mr Putin has strategic interests there, as does China. This is more important than Mr Trump appearing tough to his "base" and scoring political points, this is real grown up stuff. I am not sure Mr Trump is ready for that.
9
How does anyone know that attack wasn't done specifically to drive up oil prices? I would not a bit surprised if the Duck's tweets were generating income.
16
Do I have this right? We supplied Saudi Arabia with weapons for its war with Yemen. Iran supplied Yemen with weapons for its war with Saudi Arabia. And now we want to fight Iran?
Why?
22
I'm sure this comment will come up again and again in this list, but would it be nice if the president and his administration didn't lie every day, all day. Then we, the citizens, could draw some opinion as to whether or not Iran was involved. As is, we (like Russians, Chinese, Saudis) have no idea whether the government's claims have any connection to truth.
14
@Don Mellor - "As is, we (like Russians, Chinese, Saudis) have no idea whether the government's claims have any connection to truth."
Oh, we have a very clear idea of whether we can believe a word from the U.S. government when it wants to go to war. In a word, NO!, we cannot believe a single word they say.
3
This a Saudi undertaking. It was an attack on their facilities and retribution is their responsibility. Not ours. Trump carries the big stick around yet he waffles on every chance to back up his tough talking. Just keep waffling Trump. Let the Saudi armed forces take care of business.
9
You mean let the Saudi hired slaves and mercenaries try to fight the Iranians, who at least stand on principle.
1
Excuse me for asking, but does Congress have any say in the matter of what Trump may crash into? This looks like a pending third fiasco for the US in that part of the world going back only 30 years. Good for the weapons makers, though.
10
@Athawwind
No, Congress has no say. It abdicated its war making role years ago, just like it is abdicating its role to hold the executive branch accountable today.
3
Trump says, Trump lies. If we go to war on behalf of a Saudi prince who murdered a WX post columnist we will become one of the pariah nations or this world.
14
Iran's the villain? Wait a minute! what about that 400 lb fat guy, on his bed, in New Jersey?
10
I don’t believe anything trump says , whyshould I
10
In order to get elected, @BarackObama will start a war with Iran.
~Trump Nov 29, 2011
Now that Obama’s poll numbers are in tailspin – watch for him to launch a strike in Libya or Iran. He is desperate.
~Trump Oct. 9, 2012
Don't let Obama play the Iran card in order to start a war in order to get elected--be careful Republicans!
~Trump Oct. 22, 2012
Barack Obama will attack Iran in the not too distant future because it will help him win the election
~ Trump Nov 14, 2011 (repeated 14X)
https://www.salon.com/2019/05/17/trump-warned-us-a-desperate-president-would-attack-iran-to-win-re-election/
17
Hopefully, Dick Cheney isn't consulting with Donny.
9
So the nation that gave us the 911 terrorists and their clown prince of crime Mohammad Bin Salman find themselves on the other end of a missile attack. Clearly something we should have considered in '72.
13
Yes Barry! Why is this conversation even happening! 17 remember 17 Saudi terrorists attacked our country and we attacked Afghanistan?
5
@Usmcsharpshot
I'm with you. Even the Canadians I'm currently living with get it!
4
Too many stupid comments here. President Trump is listening to the intel reports from DOD and the intel community. It's obvious from where the drones came (North and East). Of course, crazy anti-Trumpers will say anything to discredit the president even when it is a fact that Iran is trying to take down Western civilization. To conclude that MBS is calling the shots for us is nonsense. All that said, what is the solution / action to take all you anti-Trumpers suggest the president to take?
1
@MCH: He should resign, of course.
4
>>> "It's obvious from where the drones came (North and East). "
Right over the US 5th Fleet in the Gulf, huh? How did that happen?
5
I am saying that even if the Iranians blew up the refinery all is fair in love and war and it is none of our American business.
5
Golly, Aren't the Israeli elections tomorrow? And who's better than the Mossad at subterfuge and disinformation, especially when it comes to gullible American politicians?
curioser and curioser......
16
I can't believe a word Trump says.
11
@Danafoto
Why not? He does say "believe me" a lot. You should believe every word he says. That issue that involves Hawaii about that Kenyan being born there and then winning 2 fake elections was his first leg up into politics. That must be why you do not trust him as a loyal vassal should.. I think you might be biased against the next president to be put-on Mount Rushmore because he questions your office of Vital Statistics over there in Hawaii. If you get a hurricane over there you might be fortunate enough to have some paper towels tossed to you personally by the Commander in Chief. I can't believe you don't believe a genius... not only a genius but a stable genius... not only a stable genius but a very very stable genius. You don't get self-recommendation more credible and generous than that.
1
Trump is a belligerent words bully. He will run, duck for cover, take a golf cart, from any real fight.
If Trump's re-election strategy, get out of jail free, war happens, someone else will be blamed.
5
The big question:
What do Putin and Bibi want Trump to do now?
11
Putin and Bibi almost certainly want very different things WRT to Iran.
My big question is why so many Americans have such a poor understanding of world affairs that they don't know that.
1
Don't be fooled, just more Trumpian reality show. There won't be any wars, just President Peace Maker. All a fabricated drama so Trump will end up meeting the Iranian president and voila, 2020. First meeting in history, win win, camera, fake smiles,yawn.
1
Trump said it - yeah sure, that's convincing.
4
"... President Trump said Monday that Iran appeared to be responsible for the weekend attack on Saudi Arabian oil facilities. …"
Sure, and Obama was born in Kenya.
3
From Wikipedia: "The hijackers in the September 11 attacks were 19 men affiliated with al-Qaeda. Fifteen of the 19 were citizens of Saudi Arabia." Why are we thinking of sending our soldiers to die to defend their interest?
17
Why would we go to war for Saudi Arabia? We have no treaty with them and they aren't exactly the good guys. Another oil war for our kids to be killed? He just wants to be a war President to get reelected. This is appalling.
9
@ExPatMX - He already is a war president. Everyone seems to think that Afghanistan is not a war or something and that somehow starting yet another one would help but I don't understand how. We have had 4 administrations now dealing with Afghanistan and electing a new president doesn't seem to throw off the war machine.
1
I've been saying for a year now that Trump is going to start a war so he can go into re-election as a wartime president while appeasing the defense contractor community. I'm so sick of Republicans pursuing war as big business and to rile up the xenophobic base. Ugh.
7
"President Trump on Monday took to Twitter to suggest that Tehran could not be believed" - and yet Trump expects everyone to believe him?
The Saudis can't even tell where the drones were launched from, and the US is not saying specifically either, according to this article. Of course, these are the people who couldn't figure out what happened to Khashoggi in their own embassy.
This plan was hatched during the first foreign visit of the Trump presidency, when they did their little dance together. Trump is completely bending over backwards for the Saudis!
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/national-security/top-11-favors-trump-administration-has-done-saudi-arabia-n1026926
9
If this were not so terribly serious I would laugh at the frustration of John B. getting the boot right before his dream war begins.
Will the Dems once again cave in?? Doesn't the house have anything to say? Are any of the Dems saying anything right now, of course I mean the ones who are not paid off by the industrial complex to vote for wars. Perfect campaign ploy.
Hope it backfires for trump and the oligarchs and corporations who benefit from wars and killing innocent people.
Really can any of you wrap your heads around making money from killing people. Oh I exclude the Sackler family of course, Doubt they read the times, since they no longer come off so well here anymore.
3
A thinking enemy with a technological bent, be he poor and ragged, is an enemy of the worst kind.
Huge, critical, expensive modern industrial infrastructures are now revealed to be uniquely and utterly defenseless against small, cheap, off-the-shelf aerial drones.
The Saudis, to their cost, certainly know this right now.
We here in the United States need to heed this.
3
Saudi Arabia ranks third in annual military spending ($83Bn), behind China ($168Bn) and ahead of Russia ($63Bn). (We spend over $640Bn.)
Very valuable sand, I guess. Or maybe it's the oil underneath. Anyway, SA should be able to defend themselves against the followers of the false Shia doctrine with a crippled economy. God will be with them, or at least one of them.
Saudi Arabia also ranks high in human rights, educational attainment, civil society, and women's rights... Well, aside from godliness, they actually only make the leaderboard in one of the other five. But with American manufactured toys they should easily prevail. And they at least pay for their toys, as opposed to our supposed 'ally,' the Israelis, whose current government repays us by meddling in our elections.
So there's no need for American intervention. Last I heard we were broke with exploding deficits and debt. We also just needed to delay 127 military projects to pay for our own national emergency. You remember. It's the one requiring we repel impoverished Central American peasants on the southern border.
8
45 is far less credible than even 43 was when it comes to believing he will tell the truth about a need for america to go to war. he is a clear and present danger to himself, all americans, people everywhere and the planet. he should have been removed from office a long time ago.
4
Alfred W McCoy tells us that as empires decline, they overextend themselves in "micro military" aggressions that bring about the final collapse of the nation. I believe we are tempting that fate now. There is no democratic voice that will be listened to to halt this madness.
5
When there’s absolutely no regard for trust, dissemblance rules. Trump is the most unethical person at a time and in a position where trustworthiness is imperative (and Pompeo not just by association is guilty of this as well). There couldn’t be a clearer or more undeniable indication of his unfitness for the Presidency than his compulsiveness to use force at the expense of untold lives.
7
The enemy of my enemy is my friend...and on and on ad infinitum.
The U.S supplies weapons to Saudi Arabia who use them to carpet bomb civilians in Yemen. The Iranians supply Yemen with weapons to fight the Saudi's.
The U.S. looks the other way on Saudi human rights violations, military atrocities and an orchestrated murder of the Saudi dissident journalist Jamal Khashoggi. Today they are our allies because they are enemies of Iran and also because the money keeps flowing from massive U.S. arms sales and oil transactions. Tomorrow, who knows.
We've been in the dirty business of obtaining world power and money for many decades, let's not pretend moral indignation when Iran is accused of lighting the fuse and then use that to light more fuses.
With the exception of clear and immediate threat to the U.S. the authority to launch military attacks on other countries should be approved by Congress, not by Executive fiat, especially the current Executive who cannot be truthful with us about pretty much everything.
6
It's at the moments like these that I am so relieved that we have "best President Ever and his beautiful family" in charge of our policy.
Because whom would you rather have in charge in the moment of crisis than someone with many years of experience in playing a hard nose business leader on a reality TV show?
Someone who has deep personal experience of what it's like to serve in our military.
Someone who is a determined social media warrior.
Someone who can unite the country in the moment of crisis.
Someone who has negotiated so many successful foreign deals and agreements.
We have had two major attacks on America in our recent history: 9/11 and 11/9. We will see which one will prove more destructive.
4
The evidence that "appears" to show trump colluded with Russia to rig the2016 election is far stronger than the evidence that "appears" to show that Iran is involved in a drone attack on Saudi Arabia.
If we can start a war using the weaker evidence, we can certainly start impeachment proceeding with the stronger.
9
Most of the comments are from the “run and hide” appeasement crowd. Saudi Arabia is a major oil supplier to the world’s economy. If credible evidence is found of Iran’s fingerprints on this attack then its oil production facilities should be eliminated in addition to its ability to wage war. This really is a act of war on the part of those responsible.
@KB: That's an interesting argument. Did you also call for war against Russia when it attacked Ukraine? Iraq when it attacked Iran? Israel when it attacked Lebanon? Turkey when it attacked Cyprus? Saudi Arabia when it attacked Qatar, or Yemen?
I can see that you would certainly keep our armed forces busy...and bloody.
2
Iran’s economy is in a downward spiral it cannot fund pensions to its bureaucracy or armed forces. The operations you have mentioned did not threatened the world’s economy. A limited military response to this aggression would be appropriate or should the world wait until the Islamic Republic of Iran is fully capable of launching a nuclear attack?
@KB
Sanctions that destroy economies and cause the deaths of civilians is an act of war
According to intelligence estimates that I have received, Trump is responsible for a massive deficit in brainpower in the Washington, DC area.
13
From my experience with Trump supporters, many of them are fiercely non-interventionist. They voted for Trump with the belief that he was as well. If he gets into a conflict with Iran, that could well cost him the election. If anything prevents Trump from engaging with Iran, I’d wager it would be that.
2
Speculation....any type of shooting war with Iran will certainly invoke the unknown unknowns thingy.
No matter what the issue or cause of any war in the middle east, energy drives the planet's economy and that economy depends on oil flowing from the middle east to the rest of the world. It will not matter if the US has sufficient oil or any other country that can make similar claims...as it stands now, the risk is big if the shooting starts.
Really hope Trump Inc. is keeping such in focus...but that is certainly not expected.
3
If countries have enough sophisticated drones to deploy, we may be moving towards Mutual Assured Disruption -- a credible proxy for Mutual Assured Destruction -- without messy nukes, at least among neighbors who are within range of each other. Swarms of cheap and highly accurate drones may become the new deterrent against neighborly aggression.
Whoever carried it out this action, the U.S. and Saudi reaction has turned it into a warning to anyone thinking of attacking Iran: It doesn't need nuclear weapons to make an aggressor pay a high price.
When did the United States ever agree to come to the defense of Saudi Arabia?
Since we are, or are becoming, self-sufficient in oil, what is our interest?
11
Why are we talking about going to war with Iran? We were not attacked. As far as I know, we don't have a treaty obligation to defend Saudi Arabia, which seems perfectly willing and able to conduct a war on its own in Yemen. When Israel, a far closer and more important ally, was attacked, we let Israel defend itself. Why in the world would we do something different for Saudi Arabia? Let the Saudis defend themselves using the massive amount of weapons we have sold them. I don't want ANY American soldiers killed over a dispute between the Saudis and Iran.
13
Let’s say, to simplify arguments, that Iran was actually responsible. Why would the US, which now brags about its increasing energy independence, need to fight Saudi Arabia’s war? Why would an America First administration promising to bring troops home get involved at this stage? The US has not been attacked. There is no humanitarian disaster (tho there is one in Yemen).
Both Saudi Arabia (and Israel, if it feels threatened by this incident) have more than enough firepower to reply in kind.
Or is this, like the flimsy pretext to the Iraq War, all about oil ?
4
I was thinking today would it not be interesting and bewildering if the Saudis themselves bombed their own facility. With oil companies denial of climate change while at the same time raise their oil rigs at sea to protect their investment .... you have to wonder. Or would it be impossible that some rogue group took it upon themselves to stir things up for malicious purposes. Now it is touted that the Iranians are culpable. How this belief was arrived at is still unknown.
3
You have to wonder if the air-defense system Saudi Arabia has in place is the same one that the US is using to protect its own ships. Russia is suggesting Saudi Arabia buy the S-400 system.
This is so exhausting. So our intelligence community working with others in the region emphatically conclude that Khashoggi was killed by the Saudis. Not we are going to let Trump decide which source to believe to justify his actions.
8
Trump wanted to meet with the Iranians with no preconditions. No wait, he never said it, it’s now Fake News.
Trump say we don’t need oil from the Middle East but suddenly we’re locked and loaded, explicit reference to going to war. The White House claims that meant something else, not sure what. The Trump claims he doesn’t want war.
Trump claims he doesn’t need advisors, he only needs himself. And he does know more about everything than anyone, especially when it comes to military and intelligence matters.
I hope the stable genius knows we have troops all over the Middle East and Iranian militias know this only too well.
9
@John Adams Yep, Cadet Bonespurs loves to toss around tough guy language like "Locked and loaded" even though he did everything he could to avoid serving his country.
6
This president and his entire administration are champion liars. Why should anyone with sense believe anything coming from them. It is most unlikely that Iran was responsible for this attack since Iran is also an oil producer. Iran may have assisted the Yemenis in acquiring these weapons but they certainly did not participate. On the other hand the USA has participated with Saudi Arabia in bombing Yemen. In the case of 09/11 all the actors were Saudis but we elected misguidedly to attack Afghanistan a country that did not participate in the attack. Next we attacked Iraq because Dick Cheney said they had WMDs. And despite not finding any WMDs we continued with our Shock and Awe essentially destroying the entire adjacent area and enflaming the entire middle east.
8
I do not believe him nor any member of his administration.
21
He’s considering defending Saudi Arabia-the country where they were responsible for the murders of 9/11 victims as well as countless others including the journalist Khashoggi?? How disgraceful.
22
So, President Trump, are you prepared to send your sons to war?
36
My thoughts exactly!
5
“Any future defense secretary who advises the president to again send a big American land army into Asia or into the Middle East or Africa should 'have his head examined,' as General [Douglas] MacArthur so delicately put it.”
....former Defense Secretary Robert Gates,
Feb 26, 2011, In a speech to cadets at the United States Military Academy at West Point
9
This is more unraveling following the Trump withdrawal from the Iran /West nuclear deal. I get it. Mr Trump does not want to be President of the United States. He wants to be President of the Republican Party ( and some states). He does not want to honor the commitments of the USA. Thus the States must Unite to form a Union more perfect than the one we don't really have, and defend ourselves from the lack of coordinated government response to climate change, internal violence, education needs, etc. I do get that the Republican Government succeeded in the theft of a trillion dollars via tax cut and must hold power to keep it. But life goes on and the (new) States United must work together to govern and defend ourselves.
7
The fact that Trump, Pompeo, and Saudi leaders have jumped to conclusions and accused Iran without an iota of evidence is because they did not expect the Yemenis to have precision weapons which could hit specific targets without detection. Also, they were shocked that their defense system failed to protect the world's largest oil refinery despite having the latest state of the art weapons and technologies. Further, they do not want the world to know that the Saudi Arabian dissidents who despise the regime helped the Yemenis hit the intended targets without detection. Unfortunately, in order to hide their gross failures and save face, they may attack Iran.
11
I don't believe him. But if he is right, so? KSA and Iran are both equally abhorrent states. Not our fight.
12
Just as the Houthi are supported by Iran in Yemen's war with Saudi Arabia, so is Saudi Arabia being supported by the Benighted States in its war with Yemen.
So if the Benighted States has the right to retaliate against Iran for what Yemen does to Saudi Arabia, do that mean that Yemen also has the right to retaliate against the Benighted States for supporting what Saudi Arabia does to Yemen?
4
Iran has advanced drone technology and ability to shoot down drones. Let us assume Iran provided that technology to the Houthi rebels of Yemen who used it to give a black eye (smoke) to Saudi Arabia by knocking 50% of the oil processing units. How different would it be if the UISA has allowed the Saudis to but bombers and fighter jets? US presidents including Bushy and Obama have been supporting the arms and jets to made in the USA to be purchased by the Saudis.
War in Yemem has been going on since 2015 when Obama was the president. It is time for Trump to cut the support to Saudis and for Russia and China to cut sale of arms to Iran and this way the Houthis and Saudis have to talk peace. Yemen civil war has caused untold humanitarian crisis and it is time to support the warring faction fom receiving arms that could be used against each other.
Saudis and USA should refrain from a knee jerk reaction against Iran that will escalate the crisis in an unpredictable manner. U should stay neutral work with UN to end this costly brutal war.
So gas prices will go up. So be it. We are to used to cheap gas and burning it like there is no tomorrow. this cause pollution and climate change. Hopefully we will begin using lesser and lesser gas and leave smaller and smaller foot print. We are sell sufficient in our energy requirement and it is important to send a message to Iran and Saudi Arabia to stop the proxy war in Yemen. Above all under no circumstances should the US take sides.
5
Mr. Trump says we are ready for war. Really? what is the "causus belli"? Does the U.S. have any treaty obligation to defend Saudi Arabia? Saudi Arabian, not American, oil facilities were attacked. Has the Congress declared war on Iran?
12
So, according to the Trump doctrine, we support the Saudi regime, but not NATO?
14
I'm fairly certain the government lies in order to profit from intentionally starting needless wars. After all there is no truth from government that is how corporate governance destroyed a planet called earth with lies.
5
Trump has always and will always make decisions based on his own personal best interests. See also: greed. Considering this as his compass, he will then float any reason for his “presidential decisions,” no matter how ridiculous or wrong or untrue they certainly are, as mere lip service to the office that he holds. And then he can quickly resume his criminal work.
5
I have just had a horrible thought. Trump prides himself on being not just better informed but infinitely smarter than anyone who might possibly advise him, especially on national security including military matters. For 17 months, an incredibly long time for a member of Trump's national security and diplomacy team, Bolton was Trump's NSA. Bolton, as is his habit, wanted us to take military action against Syria, Iran, Venezuela, China, and Russia. It may not have been only the inbred cowardice of President "Bone Spurs" that has kept us out of war. Maybe he also wanted to act like he was smarter than Bolton.
I do not know if this is really the case. Perhaps over the next year we will see what happens without the need to show up Bolton keeping Trump restrained. I hope that I am wrong.
6
All trump had to do was nothing. But instead, he destroyed the peace and not has the country on the brink of war. He should be worried that the US itself is on the brink of civil war. He bankrupted the country with tax breaks for himself and his pals, and now he wants to occupy the Middle East on a credit card. That's what happens when you have a reality TV show host as your leader.
14
The right answer is for Trump to use his love affair with MBS to end the war in Yemen, immediately reducing tensions in the region. The likely answer is that Trump and Pompeo will lie us into war with Iran under orders from MBS with BiBi cheering from the sidelines.
6
Appears is not the same as was. Appears is wrong is a opps moment. Was when wrong is a lie.
2
Iran has been put in a corner by Trump. We had a good treaty with them under Obama until Trump nullified it at the request of Netanyahu. He will get us into a war soon. Our foreign relations have never been so bad.
10
The U.S. is the top oil producer on earth, yet we continue to have to import huge amounts of it. Our out of control oil use is a threat to: the U.S. and world security, the environment, world peace, the stability of multiple countries, democracy, climate change, and helps ruin our trade deficit. Folks in these pages constantly say we aren't over populated and need more people. Our oil use and its effect on us and the planet prove we're more than full up.
9
War requires Congressional approval. It should never be based over an oil squabble by two non-US countries.
13
@TiredOfEndlessWars
The Congress has not declared war in all our overseas skirmishes since WWII. Why would you think that congress would suddenly get involved if Trump and his Trumpsters decided to attack Iran on trumped up charges?
2
Suadi Arabia is more than able to defend itself - as it has proved in its war with Yemen. We were not attacked; it is not our war. And we must not let Trump use this as a pretext to strike Iran.
16
And of course, Trump has such a reputation for insightful truth-telling we all believe whatever he says.
13
Maybe the Saudis secured Iranian arms and attacked themselves to raise the price of their oil in world markets. All I know, it is time for the United States to stop being mercenaries in the fight between Saudi Arabia and Iran. We do not need to be involved in a Muslim religious war between Sunnis and Shias. The Saudis actually hate us, as they were the people who planned and committed the 9/11 attacks. They do not allow our military to be based on Saudi soil unless a situation such as this arises. Too many Americans made fortunes attending to Saudi desires and have over the decades sacrificed American blood and treasure to ensure their continued enrichment.
8
For anyone who does not war, might I suggest contacting your Congress rep and senator, and reminding them that THEY control the money, and that only Congress is allowed to declare war despite their abysmal failures in the past.
10
Trump doesn't need to appoint another National Security Advisor.
He already has one.
In fact, he's had him for awhile: Sean Hannity.
16
It's really too bad that we can't believe one thing that Trump says because of all his lies - now that it is vitally important and could mean the difference of war and many lives lost.
5
The details of the attack, including photos of the damaged structures, have been published in the alternate press but not referred to by the MSM or the President. This was a precision swarm attack of drones showing advanced technical prowess not demonstrated elsewhere. The planners had exact knowledge of the facility and the damage was done by precisely holing six tanks key to the oil stabilization process, not by indiscriminate fires. It was done in the middle of the night, with complete surprise.
The US Navy facility at Bahrain was 60 miles to the east, and the published photos show the attacks came from the west, the Arabian desert, not the southeast or north.
Whoever did this has the technical advantage on the Saudis, the former US, and most tellingly, the Israelis.
They can do this again, mostly at will.
They have also demonstrated that everything within a 2000 km radius is a ready target, including all the US military bases in the Gulf, all the Saudi oil infrastructure, and the Israeli nuclear weapons facility at Dimona.
8
So? You want more Americans dying in the Middle East?! More of our taxes wasted to protect the Saudis?! Send your own kids!
1
We have our own troubles in this hemisphere. We need to work on that and do it without going to war. Stay out of the Middle East Mr. Trump. No more young Americans dying for their endless wars.
10
yhis is precisely the moment when an administration should be seen to be competent and honest.
THIS administration is neither.
with over 10,000 lies and counting plus advisors not confirmed by the Senate.
Were it the collapse of his personal company few would care - but these statements & actions impact the nation & the world.
6
NBC News currently reports on 3 sources claiming that US has imagery supporting that drones were launched in Iran. This drone attack being a developing story, needing further confirmation, it seems wisest to me that we should not accuse the US government of misleading us deliberately or out of incompetence.
1
Doesn’t matter if it was Iran! NO more war! Let them fight it out!
1
Bloodshed over oil and money, ego, power. Life is so short yet look at how our species acts.
9
Looking at the equation Israel must be friends with Saudi Arabia. If Iran gets in to trouble Israel also wins.
3
The simple fact is that the United States has no business getting involved in a religious war between a client state that is run by a murderer and a tiny rebel group backed by an enemy. The Saudis already have made fools of themselves using arms we supplied, and if they can't guard their own oil facilities from a foreseeable attack, we certainly don't need to bomb anyone out of revenge.
This is not our war.
14
Trump campaigned against policing the world.
Now he is " locked and loaded. "
11
“The terrorist attack was not from Yemeni territory, as the Houthi militias claimed,” he said, adding that the Saudis were still “working to determine the launch point.”
If Saudi Arabia wages war on Yemen for over 4 years, and Yemen retaliates, how is Yemen's retaliation a "terrorist" attack?
5
And we are suppose to believe Trump?
Seriously?
Not happening
7
The problem with lying every time you take a breath is that nobody believes you IF and when you tell the truth.
6
I thought the US military is led by its C-in-C, the President. This tweet by Trump 22 hours ago seems very at odd with that rule:
"...waiting to hear from the Kingdom as to who they believe was the cause of this attack, and under what terms we would proceed!"
So let me get this straight: a group of Saudi Arabian royals are going to decide what the US military does?
9
"Trump says..." fill in the blank. I don't believe a word of anything he says. He has defiled the office of president so thoroughly I have no reason to heed his words.
Any Democrat 2020!
7
While hardly a fan of the clownish, incompetent, egomaniacal Trump, not sure why the outrage at him here. He's been in office for a few years and hasn't as much as ordered a shot fired. There are so many other things he can be accused of.
1
Outrage is about him starting another war! About tweeting that the U.S. is “Locked and loaded” he is a dangerous man!
1
I'll bet John Bolton is sore that he can't participate in what is heading toward a fiasco.
2
Saudis have one of the biggest military in the world, let them fight their own war.
7
Why are bullies surprised by 'unexpected consequences?' Trump, with no Plan B, impulsively pulled out of the 6-power nuclear pact than assured that Iran would not have a nuclear weapon capability for at least a decade. Reversing the sanctions relief accorded under this agreement, Trump has unilaterally imposed economic sanctions intended to destroy Iran's economy and, some how, result in a 'better situation.' Wouldn't one expect Iranian retaliation?
Mohamed bin Salman, who is part of a U. S./Israel/Saudi cabalagainst Iran, initiated a war into the existing Yemeni war. Though the UAE has sharply reduced its support for MBS, the Saudi Air Force, with U. S. logistical assistance, has continually bombarded the 'rebels.' The desperate Houthis welcome Iranian assistance.
Tens of thousands of Yemenis have been killed. Millions are starving. A cholera epidemic has hit perhaps a million Yemenis, while MBS was safely ensconced in his air conditioned palace.
Why wouldn't/shouldn't Iran, directly or through proxies, strike back at Trump and his buddy MBS? Bullies who blithely punch people and countries should realize that folks can punch back. There are lots of scummy people in the Middle East, including Iranians, Syrians, and Saudis. Whether the Iranians are scummier than MBS is debatable. I anticipate more tit for tat.
3
Why should the American people believe a single word out of this man’s mouth?
8
Even if the attack was made by Iran, why would we consider a military response at all? Saudi Arabia has the third-largest military budget in the world, including many weapons supplied by the US. We have no mutual defense treaty with Saudi Arabia. Saudi Arabia and Iran are already fighting a war by proxy. Why is this our business? And hasn't Trump taken the position that we shouldn't get involved in such clashes that don't directly affect the US?
11
'Trump Says Iran Appears Responsible for Attack on Saudi Oil Facilities'
I don't know. The Iranians were very strong and powerful in their denials. And I don't see any reason they would be.
10
If in fact it was Iran that attacked the Saudi oil supply (for which there is no proof yet) why should the U.S. lead an attack against Iran or for that matter even participate? We have been selling the Saudi's arms for years. What are they doing with them? Let them conscript an army and send their sons to fight their own foes. War is something that you should not be able to 'contract out', like they do all the other menial tasks within their country. When oil is not the worlds primary energy source they will have to go to work, just like the rest of the world. As we say over here, the Saudi's need to put on their 'Big Boy Pants' and protect their own interests, instead of buying yachts for their spoiled leaders.
33
"President Trump said Monday that Iran appeared to be responsible for the weekend attack on Saudi Arabian oil facilities."
How does Trump know? Has he decided to listen to our defense and/or intelligence assets for a change? Or is he just pulling this one out of his Sharpie again?
14
When you begin your presidency lying about the size of the crowd, then spend the next two years 239 days lying about something each and every day, it's hard to believe anything he says.
Iran may be responsible, but Trump just isn't trustworthy. So it makes it difficult to rally our nation if serious action is necessary. And forget about getting our allies on board. This is the problem with a president that never acts presidential.
26
Even if Iran did it, the US doesn’t need to go to war over it.
36
Exactly.
7
@Marshall
Iran is NOT alone. Iran and Russia are a great deal closer than Russia is to the US, as friends.
No one seems to think that Russia could be involved.
It doesn't really work for the Israelis, when they hold Hamas responsible for anything that comes out of Gaza.
Now the US takes that one further, holding Iran responsible for anything that comes at the Saudis from anywhere.
Of course they are Iranian weapons -- what other weapons do they have in any group that the Saudis are killing? That is a lot of groups, and MbS has some real agency in that, not just "the mullahs."
This is simple minded. But then, it is Pompeo leading Trump, so simple mind leads simpler mind.
9
Trump will decide to attack Iran if he thinks it will help him win re-election. Trump's decision will have nothing to do with whether Iran launched the attack on Saudi Arabia, nothing to do with whether Iran's attack on Saudi Arabia poses a threat to the United States, nothing to do with whether attacking Iran is a good idea, nothing to do with whether attacking Iran could possibly have a good outcome. Trump's decision will hinge solely on his own political survival.
Kind of like the leader who shall remain nameless, of a country which shall remain nameless, who faces an election tomorrow, Tuesday.
11
For a president who eschews security briefings, how would he know?
15
Trump says a lot of things. Usually they are lies. Sometimes he says things and then lies about saying them. I know it’s a lot to include all that in a headline, but if you don’t you lose a lot of important context.
13
Who believes a word Trump says?
This is the problem with having a president who tells dozens of lies a day.
20
So the price of oil will not remain this high and really should not have spiked at 12%. Remember OPEC has been cutting back on production in the past year. The other OPEC members can always ramp up production to off set what Saudi has lost in production. With this spike it is nothing but a money grab. Then again our OPEC friends may just sit back and enjoy all the money. Tell me again why we spend money and treasure to protect countries that purposely cut back production so we can pay more. We could always use the example from what the UAW has done and stop driving for a couple of days and disrupt the market. You know capitalism don't buy it and the price will drop.
4
And who knew the US was down to its last bullets. So glad our stable genius fixed that, just in case he does something really unstable and ungenius.
4
Iran Appears Responsible?
Guess Trump is not think of using smart bombs.
1
"Prominent supporters of the monarchy have portrayed the strikes as an assault on the world and its energy markets, not just Saudi Arabia, and some have talked of retaliation. "
I guess the reporters have to write something to tag out the article.
1
just a thought from someone with a curious mind...doesn’t the US, UK, Israel and perhaps others have ships in the Persian Gulf? Can drones be launched from ships? Or at the very least radar from our “assets” should have detected drones flying near overhead, right?
Not suggesting anything, just looking for answers.
4
We have one leader that kills journalists reporting news they don't like.
And another that will lie about everything from the small and ridiculous ( crowd size) to the large and important ( scientific weather information)
Who would you believe?
Certainly not MBS or trump. Both proven liars.
And herein is the problem with electing known liars.
12
Reminder, the Iranians killed 800+ Americans in Iraq with their technology.
That puts them on our list.
Don’t forget that over 100,000 Iraqis died from American technology. Why do I not believe that Trump that Iran is responsible for this attack. And if they are - let the Saudis manage their own problem that they have helped create.
3
@CCN
Like I said - pick a side.
@Dr. John "Pick a side." This is not a playground.
I would not put it past the Saudis to have done it thmselves to foment war between the States and their sworn enemy, Iran. You know, having a very credulous person in the white house can reap great benefits.
7
Wag the dog? This guy(Trump) will do anything to avoid jail so starting a war is a good excuse. And another excuse to declare a national emergency. Hopefully he's not aware of this technique. And since he doesn't read or listen to anybody, perhaps the Republic is safe, unless he gets careless and just says, "What the heck!" Not sure the generals would agree with attacking Iran. They were castigated in Vietnam. Iraq was a disaster. A lot of their charges are walking around with artificial legs. Generals want a war with valor and purpose. Hopefully. The republicans however, oh, the republicans. With their abortion ethics and their Christian marching orders, might prefer another apocalypse. It's good money for the mega churches and the MAGA hats who just want a reason to hate.
6
Nothing like a little war to bolster an unpopular President right before an election.
Maybe he used his Sharpie on the map to draw little arrows showing the attack came from Iran?
6
I remember when W, the dumbest president we ever had, had his administration display satellite photographs and send Colin Powel to the UN with these photos to justify attacking Iraq. We now know that that was false.
Is it beyond the current administration to engage in similar conduct to justify carrying out its agenda?
That said, I'd love to see Iran's illegitimate, unelected, religious-fanatic, Twelver dictators deposed, preferably from within.
2
After he became deputy attorney general in May 1990, Barr advised Bush that he had the legal authority to wage war against Iraq without obtaining Congress's consent.
Will he do the same with Trump and Iran?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/1991/11/12/for-nominee-barr-an-unusual-path-to-attorney-generals-office/deed0c0f-1078-41d8-94e5-35f9619e0528/?utm_term=.5baa073ebbf8
2
Is there anyone who actually understands the rationale behind how we treat the Saudi family, when compared to the Persian people as a whole?
The logic seems flawed, and I’m pretty sure that if we started a war with Iran, it would not resemble any war that we’ve ever fought in the past, and the ultimate cost would be unimaginable.
16
We would lose big time.
2
@ubique -- Money. Lots and lots of money. It is in the form of "petrodollars" and has shaped our policy since the 1960's in that region.
Oil for weapons, and they "need" lots of weapons, because, well because.
3
Oil.
Wars are good for elections - seems pretty cut and dry to me.
11
So how is this going to play out ...
Trump has access to classified information just like President Bush did for his decision to attack Iraq for WMD.
The really cool thing about classified information is that Trump can use it as a basis for a decision without telling anyone what the information really contained. He is free to lie about it and prosecute anyone who releases anything classified to contradict Trump.
Buckle up folks, we're in for Trump's war with Iran. He may be able to bomb them into the dark ages, but they are light years more sophisticated than Iraq. They'll mangle the world oil supplies and create an enormous economic mess long before that happens.
But Trump doesn't plan that far out. It isn't certain of what his decisions will be tomorrow or whether he will need to blame the Democrats on the day after that for the war he just started.
10
@DGP -- "The really cool thing about classified information is that Trump can use it as a basis for a decision without telling"
He can only do that if we let him.
We let Dubya. That wasn't the first Gulf of Tonkin lesson, so shame on us. But more? How much more?
No. I don't believe him. He can't use this on me. How about others? Do they believe him?
3
It’s ironic. Bolton wanted a war with Iran for years, but he had to get fired to get one.
2
@HKS -- Hold on. Ask yourself, "Could Bolton have made this situation even worse?"
Yes, he could have. We got rid of him just in time. It might not save us, but it does save us from the worse he would have done.
More lies, more leaks, more planted stories, more bureaucratic knives in the back, yes, he could have made it all even worse than it is.
2
Regardless of whether Iran is directly behind this attack, we will be repeating past mistakes if we intervene militarily. What did our invasion of Iraq teach us? The ME is a quagmire that responds to violence with more violence.
I say let SA fight its own wars.
We have had enough of endless ME wars. We need to turn our attention to rebuilding our country.
15
@john.jamotta -- "We have had enough of endless ME wars. We need to turn our attention to rebuilding our country."
I agree, but I'd put the emphasis on it being far, far too much. We are way past foolish, all the way to stupid. I mean "we" because we followed Dubya, we being all our politicians and many of our reporters and pundits.
Past foolish, all the way to stupid, and that was the last time. Now? We are in the realm of criminal. War crimes. I'm not kidding.
We've got guys who fought those wars who are telling us that too. They are well informed, been there, done that.
At what point does stupid become a crime?
2
Someone explain to me how Trump is eager and ready to believe the intelligence agencies when it comes to Iran but dismisses them when it comes to Russian interference in our elections? Seems to me that he’s eager to go to war.
24
@Bradley Robert
Trump may change his mind about Russia when we or the Saudis determine where the drones were manufactured and if they can determine, what programming went into the weaprony that bombed the specific sites - pretty horrifying. I think he is acting very soberly. I don't think he or anyone in his cabinet or the US military want to be involved in a war between Iran and Saudia Arabia. Such a war could lead to a world war.
This is critical point of evolution in modern military history.
A much-smaller foe is able to disable critical infrastructure relied upon by the first world via missile attack projected from hundreds of miles away (either Yemen or Iraq/Iran).
This is akin to the distribution of the Kalishnikov to guerilla units or the advent of seaborne air superiority via aircraft carriers.
9
@NYC -> Boston -- True.
This is only a beginning. The first time is not likely to be the worst anyone can ever do.
Also, it goes past these little drones and small explosives.
There are bigger drones. There are cruise missiles. There are ballistic missiles that can be steered to a target (Chinese now).
And there is cyber. We discovered years ago that complex civil engineering is run by older computers, for the very good reason that continuous updating is expensive and unnecessary. The cyber weapon was developed by the US and delivered to Iran (Stuxnet). We know they have it, because we used it on them years ago, and they got it, studied it, stopped it, and quite openly developed it further themselves.
An oil industry is pipelines, values, pumping stations, and lots of them. Saudi Arabia as the world's biggest is also the world's biggest potential cyber target.
And all of those missiles are just across the Gulf, hidden in caves in the long chain of mountains along the Iran shoreline, so says the US Navy in many recent war game exercises.
This is a critical point, yes, but it is just the beginning.
Where do we want to take this, today, right now, in our own best interest?
The economy is showing signs of weakening. GM workers, supposedly Trump's people, I guess, are on strike. Kavanaugh is back in the news, which always brings up Trump's own sexual assaults, and in NYC the DA is trying to get Trump's tax returns.
This is the perfect time to launch a massive distraction ahead of the fall elections.
Look for Republicans to wheel out "support the troops" in the next few weeks.
They will do anything to avoid facing the truth here in the US.
8
The under-reported real story: For the price of a used car, you can now stealthily fly an 80 pound bomb, to any point within about 900 miles of you, and strike your target to within about 80 feet of accuracy. And so can anyone else. All made possible by the same GPS used by your Uber driver and Lime bike.
5
"Iranians should be held responsible for the actions of forces in the region that they support, including the Yemeni rebels."
So then, by extrapolation, the United States should be held responsible of the actions of forces in the region and the world that we support. It weapons from the United States are used in genocide, in Yemen for example, then we are culpable and may be subjected to military response against us as a result.
Sorry Trump, but you can't have it both ways. If you start a war with Iran, I predict mass demonstrations and upheaval in this country against you and for Iran. We will not rally behind you. We will support the troops, meaning no to more war that is not our war to fight.
We have sacrificed too many of our young people to endless, wars.
We have been lied into costly and destructive wars with no end game and for dishonest reasons too many times.
If you really want to open the Pandora's Box and cause a massive rebellion in this country, Mr. Trump, then go ahead and attack Iran.
5