President Bone Spur is a coward through and through. He lacks any skill at critical thinking or analyzing facts/data to deal with the complexities of the real World. He is a puppet for the Saudi regime , not to mention Putnin, as well as being manipulated by North Korea, China and Netanyahu among others. He remains a clear and present danger.
7
The only people who use the phrase "locked and loaded" are chicken hawks and they generally have bone spurs and other "afflictions" that keep them from serving their country,
11
Are the Saudi’s using all of the weapons we have sold them to bomb Yemen, so they are incapable of protecting their country or retaliating on their own?
11
You all should send Trump a personal note thanking him for reading The New York Times - or having someone read it to him.
It's remarkable that he manages to comment on just about everything that's on television.
4
As I recall the Commands went something like this; Ready on the Left , Ready on the Right , Ready on the Firing Line, " Lock And Load" Commence Firing, Fire At Will ". The dim bulb "Doug-out Donnie" who probably shot "Maggies draws" thinks the words "Locked and Loaded" will strike fear into Iran, North Korea, and whoever else he seems to want to impress with his new found nomenclature and misplaced bravado. When will we begin to tell him " Adults use a significantly different vernacular to impress upon others the concepts and ideas regarding the use of military force". Donnie the Doofus is no better than a child trying to emulate his father the platoon commander. This is pathetic , and truly needs to stop, or the question begs to be asked " as Americans do we really want someone who talks like this representing us on the world stage. Sad. Lock and Load, Ladies and Gentleman , we're in for a bumpy ride.
2
Answer: because he’s a loud mouth. Always showing off. Constantly calling attention to himself. Big pain in the “potucas”. Never shuts up. The guy everyone dreaded in the classroom and who drove the teacher to take a mental health leave of absence. Translation: the worst jerk, to the nth degree. He likes how it sounds to say these irresponsible and unhinged words that make him puff up when saying them. He bloviates ad nauseam. The terror is: he’s the president. I used to hope some around him held him in check. But now with Mattis gone, I’m really scared.
3
N.B. Mohammed bin Salman is not a source of credible advice.
1
Locked and loaded to assist a certain country in its campaign against Iran. Saudi is just a pretext. The nice corporate upshot of all this will be Exxon's takeover of Iranian oil fields. The twin pillars of our middle east "policy": oil and a certain country.
2
Trump and Kushner are in the pockets of Saudi Arabia, which does not permit an independent foreign policy. Saudi interests are not identical with those of America, nor is Saudi meddling in the war in Yemen without consequences. Does Trump really want to drag America into a conflict with Iran? He realizes now that on every side - the trade war with China and the economy, the Middle East, Congressional investigations - his reelection is at greater risk than he ever imagined.
5
Absent consent of Congress, under what premise of law could President Trump use the U.S. military to attach Iran?
Did the Iranians attack a U.S. base or U.S. personnel? No.
Does the U.S. and Saudi have a mutual defense pact, obligating us to come to their defense if attacked? No.
Could he use the AUMF to justify the strike? How, no Iranians have attacked the U.S., and the vast majority of the 9-11 attackers, including Bin Laden, were Saudis.
So exactly how, under the laws of the U.S. and the Constitution, could the President authorize a strike on Iran?
6
Both MbS and Trump are incompetent. They have no idea what they are doing. One instance that shows this incompetence is the degree to which the Saudi defense system showed itself incapable of defending it's most important oil installations from attack. Despite all the billions that has been spent on military hardware and training there were no effective counter-measures to this attack.
On the other side of the equation sits Trump and Pompeo who abandoned our allies in working through a nuclear agreement with Iran. They back Iran into a corner and now the only options left are to do nothing or to attack Iran. After that who knows? Finally, Trump dumps the next move into the lap of MbS for a solution. Does this look like a winning hand?
Congress and the American people need to make very clear to both these incompetents that we will not tolerate sending American men and women to fight and give their lives in a conflict that will be another loser for the US. We have nothing to gain from another war in the Persian Gulf.
5
Locked and loaded to assist Israel in its hate campaign against Iran. Saudi is just a pretext. The nice corporate upshot of all this will be Exxon's takeover of Iranian oil fields. The twin pillars of our middle east "policy": oil and Israel.
2
If Trump had been President on December 7, 1941, the next day, instead of addressing Congress, he'd be trying to play Let's Make a Deal with Tojo.
1
At the same time, Trump is seeking to remove fuel efficiency standards. So we can buy fuel for our gas hogs at inflated prices.
Genius. (And stable.)
3
"The upshot is that Iran has now apparently raised the ante, challenging the White House with a brazen attack on an ally..."
The Editorial board appears all too ready to accept the truth of an allegation for which no proof whatsoever has been offered by the Trump administration. Before jumping to conclusions, the Editorial Board would do well to question 'who benefits?' from this attack? On that basis Iran comes nowhere near the top of the list.
90
I have to strenuously disagree with the Editorial Board: No, Iran has not attacked the United States. And, the Saudi's (with hundreds of billions in American arms) are more than capable of defending their own businesses on their own soil from the enemies they've decided to go to war against without American intervention.
Nothing in this scenario justifies an American military reaction, and its shocking to find the NYT thumping the war drum. The "gauntlet has been thrown"? Seriously? We're actually weighing a unilateral armed attack in the Middle East because some insurgent group has supposedly insulted the honor of Donald Trump?
All I see is another proxy war that's highly profitable for arms dealers, and an extremely valuable reminder of why we need to escalate the transition to renewable energy. We've gone to war for oil long enough.
207
All roads lead through Tel Aviv and Jerusalem. This is otherwise the Miller, Kushner, Berkowitz, Mnuchin and Friedman program. Trump is just being led, directed, prompted, hair-sprayed and scripted.
2
At least we’re not “cocked and loaded” this time. I was never comfortable with that.
3
I thought the expression was "cocked and loaded" as trump previously stated. Don't tell me he made a mistake. He is immune to mistakes.
1
Trump is locked and loaded for lunacy. The rest of us are holding our breath waiting to see what happens. In other words, just another day in the good old USA.
2
Trump will only get more ridiculous as the walls close in on him. The next 16 months will be the most crucial for America since 1941.
2
President Blowhard does not know what he means when he says "locked and loaded." He just thinks it sounds tough in his presidential reality tv show.
1
When you elect your favorite character from a tv show because you want to "shake things up," this is what you get.
4
The lock part makes sense.
1
Have we already forgotten how many of the 9/11 highjackers were from Saudi Arabia?
6
You didn't mention some other parties who might have done it like Israel, the US or Saudi Arabia itself.
1
I wonder if Trump will be a good little president and retaliate if told do so by Saudi Arabia?
Did the Saudi’s join NATO when we were all sleeping? Why the heck should we go to war for them. I guess they are too rich to fight their own wars. They can just pay Trump to send our children to Iran to fight and die.
The whole Trump re-election economic boom fizzled. Now it looks like he is going to have to go to GOP Plan B - start a Middle Eastern war. It worked to re-elect that famous war time president George W Bush.
Remind me how did electing that war time president work out for the economy? 2008 wasn’t a banner year, as I recall. Perhaps Trump’s war with Iran will work out better than Bush’s in Iraq. With Trump leading us what could go wrong. I heard his bone spurs are better now I’m sure he has some fight in him.
Putin is winning!
5
I have repeatedly said that trump would start a war as a distraction if it was needed. I also believe that he is aware (or at least believes) that wartime presidents are rarely, if ever, voted out during the conflict. I would not be surprised to learn that trump's cabal and the Saudis pulled this off so war with Iran is justified. The Saudis want nothing more than to destroy Iran and we're eager to help, they just need an excuse. There is NOTHING that trump should be considered incapable of, even war, to save his thieving family.
2
Locked and Loaded. Nice, just what the American people want, another war.
I read some time ago in the comment section that the U.S. hasn't won a war since 1945. Well, they did win the cold war without firing a shot. They buried the Soviets with their economical might. Maybe working with your allies has some merit.
8
According to the NYTimes editorial board, the attacks "amount to a sharp provocation against the United States". Really? Letting the NYTimes editorial board set the agenda is a very dangerous thing. (When the NYTimes tried to make impeaching Brett Kavanaugh the shiny object, it did not work out too well). The article finally states that the time has come for Trump to "consult Congress". Again, the NYTimes misses the mark. The time has come for Congress to make a declaration of war against Iran or vote against it, otherwise, Trump should not have the power to take any military action whatsoever. This should be the clear position of any responsible editorial board. Its what our constitution demands. Congress last authorized use for force almost 20 years ago to go after Al Quaeda. That authorization clearly no longer applies to Iran and this would not be an act of self-defense for the U.S.
I question the Editorial Board's assumption in the last paragraph that this was an attack by Iran. We do not know that. We only know that the United States government asserts it. But under Trump, the United States government asserts lots of things that are demonstrably untrue. This is not one of those, but the problem with lying as official policy (and doing it so openly, clumsily, and foolishly) is that no one then can believe anything the administration says.
2
It is always unsettling to see Saudi Arabia described as an "ally" of the USA. I find it difficult to name three important things that you should or indeed could agree on.
Freedom? Nope. Democracy? Nope. A free press? Nope. Basic human rights? Nope again... Equality? Most definitely not! I mean, the USA is fully aware of the support that the Saudis provide to extremist Muslim organizations, that most of the 9/11 terrorists, remember them?, were Saudis.
What DO you have in common?
65
@Rudy Flameng I agree with every point you have made but the Saudi's have a whole lot of money and, as we all will grimly agree, our politicians (on both sides of the aisle) are easily bought.
In almost every way, we should be favoring the Iranians over the Saudis.
Yes, the ayatollahs running Iran are our enemies but Iranian public (particularly the educated middle class) is much more pro-US.
No one in Saudi Arabia is pro-US, they are a significant source of funding for Sunni extremists and terrorism. Their government funded Madrassas are indoctrinating the next generation of terrorists all across the Middle East and into South East Asia. Most of the 9/11 terrorists were from Saudi Arabia.
I am not aware of a single act of terrorism on US soil that has been attributed to Iran.
The only reason Saudi Arabia is our "ally" is because they have bought a broad array of US politicians. In actual fact, they are as deadly and dangerous an enemy as any we have in the world.
18
Oil and money
11
@Rudy Flameng
A love for money.
8
Why in heavens is this our war? Why would our boys and girls die on behalf of Saudi Arabia and Prince Mohammed bin Salman The Butcher?
Saudi Arabia has been bombing Yemen indiscriminately for five years and have killed over 20,000 people, using US supplied bombs.
But now our President is offering the Saudis more than bombs, he is offering the blood, the limbs and the lives of our soldiers.
We should not allow that.
8
As has been predicted by many, it's "events" that will show that Trump is just a blowhard with negligible leadership skills. Here's an event that could blow up in many faces. And sadly for us many of those faces may be U.S. men and women, civilians and military working in the Middle East.
4
trump just likes to say the words "locked and loaded". he doesn't know what they mean. isn't he an embarrassment?
4
After all the damage he's done,
how about Trump "locked" in handcuffs
and "loaded" onto a prison-bound bus?
7
I lived in Saudi Arabia, 1984-86. The Saudis were jealous the USA was Number 1. They were not our friends. Most were hypocrites. Their four-wives mentality corrupted their social fabric.
Saudis were known to declare, that when/if Saudi was attacked, they would run into the desert and leave the Americans to do the fighting.
I was shocked it took more than 30 years before women were allowed to drive.
Then I lived two years in the UAE and 11 years in Oman. Sheik Zeyad did much to spread the oil wealth wisely among everyone in the country. Emirates and Omanis were tolerant about religion as well as friendly and kind. I read not one Omani joined ISIS.
Arabic culture, food, families and people are wonderful. However, most of their educational system is a farce, with a college degree equivalent to a high school diploma. Rampant cheating and grade changing are the norm.
My main complaint was waiting for the Arab world to publicly comment on 9/11. They didn't. For at least five years. Some seemed happy that Arabs were FINALLY front page news. That long silence was damaging.
However, the Western portrait of Arabic people and their culture is so wrong, lacking in basic understanding and compassion, and slanted to create a life-long threat of Arabs vs. Americans/Westerners.
It's so strange that Westerners/Christians never seem to acknowledge that Jesus Christ was an Arab. And his mother Mary wore a veil (that didn't cover her face).
3
A drone attack against Saudi Arabia is a "provocation against the United States."
In what world?
Last time I looked, Saudi Arabia was not part of NATO.
Saudi Arabia has behaved in the past like a private bank that loaned money to Donald J. Trump. Not to the United States.
To Donald J. Trump, at the time a private citizen.
Our troops have what to do with that?
Trump has said things that indicate he conflates his person with the United States of America.
That needs to stop right now.
The United States military is not Trump's private security detail.
633
@fast/furious You bring up a number of interesting and valid points but the bottom line is this. Trump is a very confused individual who has been put into the position of making critical decisions that may cost the lives of many young Americans.
It's frightening to watch a man so uninformed deciding the fate of so many.
191
@Blake
You can call Trump confused; however, his cognitive issues may beyond that. I watched an immediate family member progress into early onset dementia after a series of mini strokes. Trump shows the signs of dementia: sudden outbursts of unprovoked anger at any criticism or disagreement, paranoia directed at the media outside Fox, refusal to accept the opinion or advice from his own intelligence Agencies, admiration for brutal dictators, e.g. Putin, MBS, Duterte, Erdogan, Kim Jung Un. Add that to a complete lack of understanding, or interest in the legislative process. Finally, why would a U.S. President divulge classified intel from the Israelis to Putin, jeopardizing the source? It is too simple to describe Trump as incompetent; he is a narcissist, the very definition of an individual who puts himself and family first, above his country or fellow Americans. The Executive office requires that the occupant represent all Americans; the Emoluments Clause is to prevent the President from using his office to profit himself; it also requires that the Executive divest from business interests via a blind trust, independent of his/her direction. We have two glaring examples of Trump flaunting that: his D.C. Hotel and the recent purchase of the Ternbury golf resort where Trump forces the U.S. military to stay at reduced cost, with the exception of very expensive food and drink costs.
24
If anything, actual Americans cheer this strike on an enemy of our freedoms—and our journalists.
We'll never forget the heroic Khashoggi.
21
Under what treaty or agreement is Saudi Arabia an ally of the United States? An ally of the oil industry? Yes. Of the military industrial complex? Yes. Of Wall Street? Yes. But a true ally of the United States? One that shares American values and interests? The very notion violates facts, history and logic.
57
If rural tribal insurgents can so easily and stealthily do this kind of damage to first world order and sanity, no one is safe anywhere and no military can protect you.
2
Don’t take Trump’s words seriously. He just speaks his mind.
2
Well of course Trump says he is locked and loaded. How else will he win his next election? American voters will not care who started or did what, we will rally around the C-in-C, and burn down a few things here too - to make a point (all decent people on all sides).
Iran, watch out. Whether you have done something, or done nothing, Trump's going to do something we will not be able to correct for another 100 years. I.e., start suing for peace and start inviting people from Europe to vouch for your nuclear facilities - and do it quickly. Because both Trump and Saudis want someone to bomb to unite people.
1
‘Locked and Loaded,’ but for What? More waffling, empty threats, tough talk that will be reversed overnight and other cockamamie reasons of an erratic decision maker in the White House.
3
So the Saudis can bomb Yemen's hospitals and schools killing thousands with impunity using weapons we helped provide but Yemen can't dare to attack a Saudi oil facility using Iranian weapons and killing no one? What is sauce for the goose...
4
"Locked and loaded" is just words. So was "fire and fury." So was "Mexico will pay for it." So was "Only I can do it." So is everything he says.
Words, to him, have no actual content or meaning; they are simply tools for manipulating people's interactions with TRUMP.
4
"‘Locked and Loaded,’ but for What?"
What Trump means is he's "locked and loaded" for telling more lies, displaying more total ineptness in running the government, and showing that he is willing to side with autocrats and dictators like MBS, rather than uphold and defend the Constitution of the United States of America.
4
"…the drone attacks on Saudi oil facilities early Saturday amount to a sharp provocation against the United States."
How, in the name of the Good Sweet Goddess, is this any form of provocation against The Land of The Free (old, white, rich men)? Is it because we're the Oil Tribe who burn gobs of oil and "god" mistakenly put Our Oil in Saudi Arabia? Maybe because we've been mucking around in the back yards of ME citizens virtually from the day of our founding so we think it's ours? Sheesh!
4
MAGA
Make Arabia Great Again
7
@UScentral
Hilariously true.
So, trump is locked and loaded and waiting for Mohammad bin Salmaan to tell him what to do? Did I get that right?
6
The guy who dodged the Vietnam draft talks the toughest.
He’s an All American hypocrite!
3
Yes, Trump wanted to undo Obama's legacy treaty with Iran, but he was also acting at the request of Sheldon Adelson, his largest campaign contributor and Israel supporter, to further restrain the growing influence of Iran in the Middle East, specifically Iran's support of Assad and Hezbollah, two areas that the Obama peace treaty did not address. Adelson was instrumental in Trump's appointment of Bolton as Trump's national security advisor and the resulting hard line approach to Iran. The goal of the maximum pressure sanctions was to end incursions of Iran's national guard outside its own borders in places like Syria and Iraq and stop the support of terrorist organizations like Hezbollah, the de facto ruling organization in Lebanon. Israel has every right to worry about Hezbollah because it is the most feared and experienced fighting force in the Middle East.
Trump saw these actions by Iran as glaring omissions from the Obama deal and thought he could do better. He wanted to completely tie the hands of the Iranian regime and prevent them from acting out their dreams of gaining a crescent of influence, power and geographical reach across Iraq, Syria and Lebanon.
Unfortunately, Trump had nothing to give Iran to make them change their ways, only threats and sanctions and vague promises of prosperity, a favorite ironic Trump troupe since he is the one causing the pain. His over-confidence and reputation as someone who cannot be trusted doom any negotiations.
3
While I am not a gun aficionado , I do know that the phrase 'locked and loaded' puts the horse before the cart(ridge). Once locked, ammunition cannot be loaded into a weapon. Though the expression 'loaded and locked' apparently originated with the WWII M-1 Garand rifle, it is easier to see it with a double-barrelled shotgun that breaks at the breech to load. Unlock the breech to remove spent shells, load new shells, close the beech to lock it and you're ready to fire again.
Yes, I know I'm just picking at nits, but this Hollywood tough guy phrase is twisted only to make the spoken dialog scan better.
2
So glad this is an opinion piece, because as of now there is zero shred of evidence this statement is "apparent":
QUOTE
The upshot is that Iran has now apparently raised the ante, challenging the White House with a brazen attack on an ally and one of the world’s most important oil producers. UNQUOTE
What is clear is that no country would want to pick a war with the US. Every country that has been entangled with the US in any serious way in recent decades has seen itself destroyed (Libya, Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria).
Now, why would Iran invite this upon itself? And, who would want that to happen to Iran?
What is "apparent" is that there are force that want Iran in a head to head with the US. Let's look deeper.
10
‘Locked and Loaded’ for economic stimulus and the upcoming elections, of course.
6
Once again Trump is all hat and no cattle. He's an island looking for water. He has no skill or knowledge base to help him analyze a way out of the Iranian provocation, nor does he have any competent analysts to advise him. He lives in a world of silence created by his own deafening aleatoric noise. We have a right to fear that this is only the beginning of the chaos that can be created by unfriendly regimes who are learning to play him like a fiddle, while Senate Republicans drone on with their abject nihilism. I'm singing God Bless America these days...because we really need it.
13
Locked and loaded - reference to arming nuclear weapons. If Iran goes back to the negotiation table, one of their demands should be that the US defuse its nuclear capacity and stop enriching uranium. Trump proves his own incompetence and dangerous competitive impulses that informs his actions.
There is zero reason why the US should defend Aramco. The Saudi Prince, MBS started the Yemen conflict. it is his responsibility. To even write an editorial with that as a premise, gives life and legitimacy to options that should not even be given form and substance.
5
Let’s take a step back and think: this whole thing came about with trump pulling out of the Iran nuclear deal.
But does Iran really need a nuke? They don’t even need conventional weapons to keep their enemies at bay. They are using asymmetrical warfare thru proxies, much lower budget and no redlines to cross!!
It is past due to confront the Republican Guard. They've been asking for it for years. In 2016 they invaded international waters and kidnapped the crew of a navy gunboat to bully us. Obama backed down. On numerous occasions during the past 40 years they've been directly responsible for killing Westerners, especially Americans at every opportunity.
Let's announce that they are not welcome out of their ports. Any ships exiting harbors must pass through inspections. Any fire will be returned. Iranians caught in hostile fire will be considered combatants in an undeclared war and sent to Guantanamo.
Much as I dislike Trump he is our president and an insult like the Iranians have leveled should be responded to harshly.
How do you start your piece with "...the drone attacks on Saudi oil facilities early Saturday amount to a sharp provocation against the United States." Those are Saudi facilities producing oil. This was hardly a world humanitarian crisis - these aren't hospitals or ethnic minorities being attacked. Settle down and don't buy into the premise that there's a US responsibility to get involved here. Trump doesn't need options, he needs to pack his bag and play another 18 holes
10
Trump’s apparent vacillation, so far, on responding militarily or diplomatically, may be in recognition that he knows he is not capable of leading this country into an armed conflict. He may not have the stomach for it, or, he realizes that the country is too divided to rally behind him on this issue.
2
The entire premise of this editorial is just plain wrong. The drone attack on the Saudis is not in any rational analysis a provocation to the United States. To see it otherwise is a continuation of the absurd idea that everything everywhere is about us.
Saudi Arabia (SA) has the third largest military budget in the world behind the USA and China. SA spends five times as much as Iran on armaments...more than Russia, the UK or Germany! Even if it were justified...which it is not, why should we expend a single cent to defend the source of the 9-11 villains and leading exporter of radical Muslim chaos?
Even if the drones were sourced from Iran, that does not justify anyone retaliating against Iran anymore than the indiscriminate use of American sourced weapons in Yemen (and hundred of other trouble spots around the world) justify willy-nilly retaliation against the United States.
We can't have it both ways in a multi-polar world.
This was not a provocation to the United States and there is no upside whatsoever for us to be involved.
15
This editorial concludes: The upshot is that Iran has now apparently raised the ante...
Aside from the qualifying "apparently" the NYT once again stumbles ahead. Where is the evidence that would allow "apparently" to be removed?
4
Any military action should not be unilaterally conducted by the U.S.
The U.S. should seek a U.N. Security Council resolution confirming that through the best available intelligence, Iran attacked the Saudi oil facilities. The Council should then advise and recommend on whether military action against Iran is warranted at this time.
Only then, through unanimous consent by the U.N. Security Council, should military action proceed by U.N. Security Forces.
10
Trump loves to talk tough, but so far has never followed through. It's easy to believe he doesn't even know what his options are.
Honestly, if Trump were the Godfather, he'd make you an offer he couldn't understand.
11
Whoever did this was demonstrating a capability to make a precision strike anywhere in the Middle East. This could include many of our installations in the region. Given that we still are not sure where these attacks came from any retaliation on our part could result in loss of American lives. The loss of oil is small and can be fixed quickly with little long term impact on oil market. We either have to find a way to protect our troops from being attacked with these weapons or find and negotiate with whoever launched them.
2
Putin tells Trump Russia did not meddle in the 16 election. Trump believes him. Iran says they did not bomb a Saudi oil refinery. Trump does not believe them. Trump owes money to Russian oligarchs and to Russia-linked Deutche Bank. Trump’s oil buddies are already benefitting from a boost to oil prices. Iran, theoretically, also benefits by higher prices for its oil, even if selling it is problematic these days due to US sanctions. So the question comes down to this: the Saudi strikes were surgical, no one (thankfully) was hurt or killed. Oil prices go up. Trump gets to rail against Iran, perhaps start a war, which Bibi loves. How much were the destroyed facilities worth to Aramco (more than a billion dollar yacht, more than Salvadore Muni?), how close were they to needing replacement anyway? What’s the motive, who benefits? What’s the payoff?
5
Incredible how our President and our country is lurching from bizarre event to bizarre event (even crisis to crisis). Each week is weirder than the last. It was ONLY A FEW DAYS AGO that Trump wanted to buy Greenland and was marking maps of Hurricane Dorian with his Sharpie. It is head-spinning, mind-boggling, and increasingly dangerous. Kashmir, Hong Kong, Ukraine, Brexit, Korea-Japan, southern border, Boko Haram, Argentina all queued up. Hey Congress, wake up! Hey American people, wake up!
15
None of this normal, so, Whatever it is, hopefully we will learn who Mr. Trump's big supporters are! https://www.mercurynews.com/2019/09/16/trump-bay-area-fundraiser-secrecy-peninsula/
3
@M It's in Woodside, hosted by Tom Seibel.
I'll be waiting, with my "read between the lines" salute.
@M It's in Woodside, hosted by Tom Siebel.
I'll be waiting, with my "read between the lines" salute.
Saudi Arabia making our decisions for us about whether or not we will attack Iran?
Who died and left THEM in charge?
How weak and inept can Trump get?
Seems that we're about to find out.
There WILL be more attacks on oil refineries, and not JUST the ones in Saudi Arabia.
Gas prices at the pump WILL rise rapidly.
The world's economy (including America's) are destabilizing, and will crash if these attacks cannot be stopped.
These attacks cannot be stopped.
What should we expect?
Five dollars per gallon for gasoline?
Five dollars per gallon for home heating oil?
Five dollars per gallon for natural gas and propane?
Higher than that?
It could happen.
4
The breakdown of American government under the undemocratic actions of President Trump with the full support of the GOP continues apace. This drone strike magnifies our lack of a functioning federal government with appropriate checks and balances.
Money, greed and power rule the day as Mitch McConnell says nothing regarding deployment of military action against a foreign nation now being considered by a willfully ignorant liar. The US has absolutely no reason to strike militarily to defend Saudi Arabia oil. They have billions in US military equipment. Why don't they use it themselves?
Instead, Trump and Jared Kushner conduct secret 'diplomacy' with MBS answerable to no one. Is there now or has there been an exchange of monies between these 3 people? Nobody is looking into this and the GOP could not care less. We have a nonfunctioning State Department and any advisors in place are not trusted by Trump unless they kiss his ring.
I would say that the entire US Congress should assert themselves and retain their right to declare war or sanction military action against a foreign country but what would be the point. Trump and AG Barr have neutered Congress with the full approval of the GOP.
We are now in full on authoritarian government. Whatever Trump and Jared decide will find Mitch in belated agreement. That's our government today.
11
Our President is clearly out of his depth, blustering and blundering our country and planet to the brink of another unnecessary conflict. It must be Tuesday.
He is on his way to California today. Perhaps he will declare war on us. He's locked and loaded and will probably forget that he is still in the USA. At least that will keep us out of another Middle East conflict.
3
I think the Iranians, and the North Koreans, and who knows who else, are going to kick sand in Trump's face for the rest of 2019. The timing isn't right for a war - as a re-election vehicle. That purpose would be best served by a conflict beginning around June 2020.
Everybody understands that, so the Iranians are going to have some fun this fall and maybe Kim will join in. Then they'll take 2020 off and leave it to Dimwit Don to figure out how to have a war with someone to goose the vote count. Maybe Venezuela, or, who knows, maybe Canada. Or maybe New York.
4
Even trump couldn't tell you what he means by "locked and loaded". The only threats he makes are the empty variety that sound like there's some kind of meaning behind them.
By now, the whole world knows he's toothless and harmless. His singular achievement was turning America into the laughing stock of the entire globe. Only his worshipers are ignorant of the facts.
4
@T3D
Trump is not harmless! Every decision he makes has me marveling over the power an American president has.
He has destroyed us. Our social lives. Our medical health. Our taxer. Our schools. Our reputation. Our legislative and judicial branches.
He and his rich Republican conspirators/friends are the enemy.
I thought the power to wage war belonged to Congress, and not to the president. Have they completely abdicated this right? It is not necessarily a foregone conclusion that Republicans would support a war effort. Congress should at least go through the motions and have a debate, so that there is a record of who is for and who is against military action in the Middle East.
7
No, demanding accountability from Congress was what Obama did. No way would Trump imitate Obama.
Yes, Trump is our "lock-and-load" president, desperately in need of anger management therapy and a compass to tell him which way he is going as he runs a nation of 327.2 million people into the ground.
At one level, Trump's ridiculous macho bravado against Iran is laughable and ludicrous--like some silly Peter Sellers' movie. President Bone Spur--who avoided fighting for our country in the Vietnam War, thanks to a note from his doctor--now imagines himself as the strutting, blustering Commander in Chief, who strikes awe and fear wherever he goes.
Of course, being unpredictable and destabilizing on a daily basis is part of Trump's political theater to command media attention and showcase his power.
The current episodes of "The Trump Show" are obsessively focused on his reelection. He is becoming increasingly extreme and bizarre, and I fear he is nearing the bottom of his little bag of outrageous tricks designed to dominate every news cycle. Nothing like a splendid war to get a president re-elected
Alas, in the real world, Trump is nothing but a broken down old clunker of car, without brakes, or a steering wheel that works and a speedometer that tells him how fast he is going. Plus, any mechanic who has tried to fix the Trump car has been fired or quit. But in his own mind he is a speeding red Ferrari, and that is now our international problem.
The question for the history books is who is going to stop him?
14
Iran has 'cruise missiles' that can strike well outside Iran? Did anyone expect that? Where did these come from - or has Iran got the capability to develop it's own cruise missile technology?
It's a bit like that advanced Sentinel RQ-170 drone that Iran downed with missile technology they weren't supposed to possess.
2
"Locked and loaded" another ridiculous action-movie comment like "shock and awe" and we know how well that turned out.
8
Lock-in loaded this is the most dangerous thing any president of the United States ever said he even suggested using nuclear weapons Pres. Donald Trump. At the pulling out of the Iran deal , world leaders even told Pres. Donald Trump not to leave the Iran deal, if you remember last year President Donald Trump fire theory that they have ever seen in their lifetime. That's of real stable President Donald Trump.
There are even reports that he's going to attack Iran, going around Congress. After poking them in the eye the snake it will attack. It's also a problem when a Iran with the supreme leader leader asking for fight.
I cannot seriously verify prove that Iranians actually attack the oil fills. If they were attacked by drones or missiles. Because we have to seven fleet between the waterways of Saudi Arabia and Iran. Where are the pictures nobody can come up with them except the pictures of oil fills.
Pres. Donald Trump at the rally in New Mexico was a joke spreading more lies and deceit because he knows the truth out there. Be warning he's a tyrant and he will not give up the White House in 2020 it's possible that he'll call martial law on Congress.
So, when a group of Yemenis strikes back at Saudi Arabia for bombing Yemen into a humanitarian crisis they are in the wrong?
Iran may have provided the weapons to the Yemenis, but the U.S. provides them to the Saudis.
Let that sink in.
9
We can criticize him all we want, and in most cases justifiably so, but this unconventional president and his kooky/crazy talk, calculated or not, seems able to infiltrate the equally kooky brains of other leaders. Locked and loaded, he may end up re-negotiating a deal with Iran, perhaps placating the Jong-Un out of nuclear armaments, and end up even talking the Taliban into taking dance lessons. None of this could be achieved by a conventional American president where the typical choice is regime change, wide spread destruction and regional instability over kooky talk (think Iraq and Libya). Maybe he really doesn't want another war. Stop trying to goad him into it.
2
@doc007
It doesn't matter whether or not he wants a war. He will only want what he wants when he wants it because it serves some personal purpose that serves himself with little to no regard for anyone else, period. That is the mental illness "borderline personality disorder".
4
@doc007 Dream on. Reality is not a TV show. His accomplishments, other than the "tax cut" for the rich and corporations, are not much (unless you're a fan of environmental destruction).
Diplomacy works, but only with a basis of mutual trust. This person has shown himself to be totally untrustworthy, and totally dishonest. He is the worst "president" we've ever seen. He is unfit; intellectually, morally, ethically and, if we could get the truth, mentally.
1
Trump wants to jump into another ME war of choice. The two principals are countries that are still stuck in the middle ages, 14th century. What is the rationale? Money.
Maybe he sees threats to his regime so, as did Bush II, he believes that a war now would save his chances for a 2nd term and beyond. He truly thinks we will bend to his desire to be President for life as his hero's have managed.
3
Have to admit: Rep. Tulsi Gabbard does have a point.
She speaks out against just this sort of military adventurism. against wars for profit, against regime change wars, against war for the sake of corporate (not national) interest, against the military industrial complex.
Here comes the NY Times, trying to manufacture consent for a war that will enrich military contractors, (who, in turn, will fill campaign coffers), and benefit the Saudis and Israel.
Note that none of the benefits are for us Americans at large...what we get is death and bills, and as if that is not bad enough, engender more hatred in the Muslim world and radicalize them even more.
4
This is when it matters that our President has zero credibility.
Does anyone doubt that his subservience to the murderous Saudi regime stems from his own business and financial interests?
Even Trump knows that the clueless voters who fell for his con man pitch in 2016 are not going to be enthusiastic about yet another useless, destructive war in the Middle East. We’ve all had our fill of American kids in body bags after the two wars ginned up by the last disastrous Republican administration.
9
"Locked and loaded" -- just another empty twitter splat from the empty suit in the WH. Trump gives no thought to anything including a blurt like "locked and loaded." He probably heard that said on a on television show aimed at 13 year old boys so he decided to spew it because it would make him sound "tough" to those who have as little brain capacity as he has.
We sell and give the Saudis millions in weaponry, if they want to fight with Iran -- let them do it. Trump caused this mess with Iran by removing the US from the Nuclear Treaty with Iran and at the same time, leaving our real allies -- England, France and Germany in the lurch. Hopefully none of those nations will back him in any capacity in regard to the recent attack on the Saudis -- the people who attacked the US on 9-11 and who continue to finance terrorism around the world.
12
"Locked and loaded" is tough guy talk from Commander Bone Spurs. Those of us with skin in the game don't want to spend one life or one penny for Salman the butcher.
9
An unsettled, unsettling situation, with uncertain consequences and murky motives. What could be better for Trump &Co.? It’s distracting, always good for Trump, and involves oil, which is endlessly engaging, and - amazing! - coincides with a rerun election in Israel that could save the neck of Trump’s buddy Bibi. It is reported that the Houthi in Yemen have claimed credit for the attack on the Saudi oil installation, but nobody seems to believe they are actually capable of that kind of attack. Iran ! It must be Iran - we’ve been looking to pin something serious on them for a long time. Personally, the “attack” seems like an inside job to me.
6
Mr. Trump should meet with President Rouhani at the UN, one on one, and ask him if Iran attacked the Saudi oil facilities.
He can then go on TV and proudly announce that President Rouhani personally assured him that they did not.
After all, he believed President Putin when he was told that Russia did not interfere in our elections. What’s different?
All these nuisances such as drone attacks, NATO allies, health care, climate change, etc are interfering with the executive time that he desperately needs to watch Fox and Friends, find cute nick names for the people he dislikes, and spread his stable genius ideas on Twitter.
Who are these people causing all these headaches? Don’t they realize that he has a country to run?
4
"The time has come for Mr. Trump to consult with Congress, with major industrial nations that depend on Middle Eastern oil and with military and intelligence analysts outside his immediate circle."
Does the editorial board seriously consider that Trump would ever do such a thing?
4
@David
Oddly enough I thought the time for that consultation started about 3 years ago. It hasn't happened yet.
“Left to his own devices?” It is mind-boggling to me that the editorial board of the New York Times actually believes this. There is a vast, multi-layered national security bureaucracy in place in the US government and there are dozens of decision-makers at multiple levels throughout this bureaucracy that feed information, analyses and recommendations to the White House. Presidential decision making does not rely on a single person, but rather on a multitude of sources and inputs. Of course, Mr. Trump may have every interest in the world to create the impression that he is solely in charge and making decisions completely on his own, but having spent more than four decades in the foreign policy and intelligence communities, I can assure you that the way you described his isolated and unidimensional situation is greatly exaggerated and unrealistic.
2
If you’d like to know how we got into this mess, read the comments.
They tell me that this article swears Iran Did It.
They tell me that The Left is always demanding war.
They tell me the Israelis did it.
They tell me that nobody cares about Saudi Arabia.
They tell me that we have no interests in the region. So who cares.
They tell me that the CIA deposed Mossadegh, so Iran gets a freebie. (They probably tell me that the CIA Did This, but I’m afraid to look.)
They tell me, astonishingly, that Trump’s a peacenik, unlike that darn neo-lib corporatist doody-head Hillary.
They tell me that there’s capitalism.
They tell me that we need to stop using fossil fuels. Which apparantly Obama never noticed.
Isolationism and ignorance and boom times and economic instability have never been a good thing for this country.
Last time around, they led directly to the Second World War.
Oh, and I swear half the yelling comes from people who didn’t bother to vote.
4
This is an important moment to have allies and unfortunately because Donald Trump is a bumbling idiot, diplomatically speaking, he has painted himself into a most unpleasant corner. Unfortunately the presidency is not an occupation for on the job training. And I doubt that this man would be willing to learn anything even if it was offered to him.
God help us from this concoction of arrogance and ignorance that is Donald Trump.
10
@RD "Unfortunately the presidency is not an occupation for on the job training."
Too bad Reince Priebus and the RNC completely ignored that salient point, thus allowing him to be a candidate.
6
The United States lost all leverage regarding Iran when it abandoned a peace treaty it had signed. Iran has nothing left to lose given its present economic crisis-caused by a US enforced embargo. Now Americans will pay the price in higher gas prices, which maybe is a just consequence of our careless disregard of the people of Iran who are suffering much more than we will once gas goes up a few cents. We have Trump, his supporters and all those who buy into his lies to thank.
9
"The time has come for Mr. Trump to consult with Congress, with major industrial nations that depend on Middle Eastern oil and with military and intelligence analysts outside his immediate circle."
You might just as well ask Mr. Trump to swim across the Atlantic. One is about as likely as the other.
7
Do we have a joint defense agreement with Saudi Arabia? Was it ratified by Congress? If not ,why are we compelled to make retaliatory strikes on their behalf? Are we required to consult them if we need to act in our own defense?
Does Trump expect a personal reward from Saudi Arabia for protecting them? If your child is in the military and at risk in the Middle East are you OK if they are killed in this mission to pad Trumps retirement account ?
7
The United States wasn't attacked, period. We should not be starting any more wars. Trump has caused this mess by dumping the US out of the Iran agreement.
10
"The upshot is that Iran has now apparently raised the ante, challenging the White House with a brazen attack on an ally and one of the world’s most important oil producers. The time has come for Mr. Trump to consult with Congress, with major industrial nations that depend on Middle Eastern oil and with military and intelligence analysts outside his immediate circle."
Trump was the one that raised the ante by pulling out of the nuclear deal with Iran and reinstating unjustifiably harsh sanctions against the country. The deal was working and Iran was in compliance, the withdrawal on Trump's part went against the wishes of our allies, world organizations and experts in the field. So Iran, rather than upping the ante has seen Trump's bid and raised him.
At this juncture who, among members of congress (of both parties), leaders of major industrial nations and military and intelligence analysts outside his immediate circle, would believe for a minute anything Trump has to say in regard to this mess of his own making, or trust him to carry out a policy once agreed to?
Locked and loaded is a more apt description of Trump's approach to governing and foreign policy, and his mental state, than a description of our military and their appetite to enter a war with Iran.
5
The American people should ask themselves if they are safer under the leadership of Trump! After all the lies, the flip-flopping and the bashing of allies who will come to the USA aid with self-inflicted wounds? The USA has little to no credibility for serious international challenges.
10
The sacred oracle of trumpneyland, squatting on the edge of his chair like a stuffed or constipated toad makes an utterance: "locked and loaded" and we mere mortals must interpret what that means. For our survival. Will we go to war? Will war come to us?
We have other catchy pairings from his past great emissions to divine a meaning: Thoughts 'n Prayers, Fire n' Fury, Oranges n' Origins, Locked n' Loaded, among others.
Obviously, these utterances are just what he would build, being a great builder and all, maybe on Greenland or Alabama or the beaches of North Korea: it's a ticky-tacky strip mall with church, barbecue restaurant, organic produce market and a gun shop.
To our great, worldwide relief. It's confefe as usual.
4
it seems rediculous to me to assume that it is Trump's job to do something about the attack on Saudi Arabia. Obviously he doesn't have a clue - just waiting for orders from the his buddy, the Crowm Prince. What hapened to the campaign promise that the USA was going to resign as world cop?
4
Feb. 2017 - President Trump claimed the Iran nuclear agreement (JCPOA) was "one of the worst deals ever made."
Standing at a press conference next to Israel's Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, Trump called the nuclear
deal "stupid" and "catastrophic", and said his No. 1 priority as president would be to dismantle it.
Feb. 2019 - Met with near-silence while addressing the
Munich Security Conference, Vice President, Mike Pence repeated his demands that Germany, France, and Britain
join Washington in pulling out of the Iran nuclear deal.
"The time has come for the Europeans to leave the Iranian nuclear deal," Mr. Pence said.
In contrast to Chancellor Merkel, who advocated working
together, Mr. Pence focused less on working together and more on a list of demands for American allies based on American interests, with a heavy emphasis on a combative approach with Iran.
"The Iranian regime openly advocates another Holocaust,
and it seeks the means to achieve it," Mr. Pence said.
July 2019 = Iran says it was compelled to breach some of
the accord's limits because in Iran's view, the United States had violated the accord by abandoning it and reimposing sanctions. Iran said the Europeans have failed to honor
the provisions for providing economic benefits, despite the creation of a bartering mechanism, known as Instex, meant to bypass American penalties for trading with Iran.
Sept. 17, 2019 (3h ago) - Merkel Urges Return to Iran Nuclear Deal to Defuse Middle East Tensions.
3
Why was the attack a "sharp provocation against the United States"? Last I checked Saudi Arabia was not one of the states or territories (or Israel, the 51st state).
9
Read between the lines: this episode is being called out as an attack on a key funding source for the Trump Org and Kushner Companies. What could be more important? If Iran was a key lender, eg close friend and ally, it would be suggested that some other actor had set off the explosions.
2
this entire good cop bad cop act is not only getting stale, it's becoming profoundly dangerous. it not only alienates our allies, it makes diplomacy with his perceived enemies impossible. clowns belong in a circus, not in positions of responsibility and trust.
6
Anybody who's paid attention to the woefully unequipped individual occupying our highest office knew, it would be only a matter of time before a volcano of disaster would erupt.
The only thing surprising thing about trump is that it took him this long.
4
Not to worry. He’s already crawfishing. Only problem being, the crawfish types have a nasty habit of either lashing out, or getting us so far into a corner that somebody else does.
3
I'd bet if you looked at the life of the survivors, government employees, of the Iranian occupation of the US Embassy you'd have found them, retired, living on large government pensions, in expensive and comfortable homes in and around Washington DC.
And for that you want to start a war with Iran? If anything, we should be angry that we had to pay those government employees overtime, time and half, double time, lost vacation time.
The biggest tragedy was the failed rescue effort in which eight Americans died and 4 were injured.
Hopefully France and the rest of Europe will tell Trump and the US public that they have absolutely no intention of getting dragged into any more Middle East fiasco's even if they find out that the attack on the Saudi oil installations came directly from Tehran. PERIOD.
And it probably wouldn't hurt, too, if the American public told President Bone-Spurs that we aren't going along for the ride either.
5
@Steve
Is that what this is about? Risking world peace and stability in order to get even over an embarrassment that happened in nineteen SEVENTY NINE?
How many Americans hostages in the US Embassy, Tehran, DIED as a result of the seizure? How many seriously injured? Was that NONE and NONE...?
2
@nolongeradoc - That is exactly my point. We've been at Iran's throat for 40 years for essentially for no reason at all. Ditto, Cuba.
If you'll recall, David Cameron, former Prime Minister of the UK decided to join to George W. Bush (worst President America ever had) in the Iraq fiasco. And seeing how Boris Johnson and Trump are buddy-buddy, look out.
1
Donald Trump is the problem. No one knows what he wants and no one can be sure what he wants today will be what he wants tomorrow.
He ended the JPCOA because it was Obama's deal, and then he sanctioned Iran to keep them aligned with the agreement he withdrew from.
Our foreign policy, like our trade policy, is shapeless and fickle. Who knows what Trump will do?
3
Many comments have already noted the inconsistencies of the NYT editorial position. On the one hand, like CNN, WAPO and the like, they respond like Pavlovs dog by assuming without clear evidence that Iran had to do it. The Pavlovian response expresses their alignment with the MIC and resulting warmongering. On the other hand, they would have to go to war with Trump as their Commander. The fear is that Trump would make a hash out of it and further diminish the US position in the Middle East, while no response is also diminishing, though less so. Hence the NYT must suppress its desire to unelect Trump so as avoid the worse outcome, and must figure out how to message this to their readers in a way that does not encourage antiwar or anti interventionist sentiment. The reader must assume Iran is guilty, and take the position that nothing should be done.
Does any U.S. ally trust this president or believe what he says? And, FYI, Saudi Arabia, Russia and North Korea are not U.S. allies.
7
Now is the time for Trump to work with the UN security council to determine what a coalition of countries should do to complete an investigation and determine further steps including the possibility of military action.
Trump himself is totally to blame in this situation, 100%. Trump unilaterally and as a single person not representing the will of Americans backed out of the Iranian nuclear agreement and imposed harsh sanctions. The UN security council co-signers to that agreement were opposed and still are opposed to his actions.
Iran took the unfortunate step of economic violence as a response to Trump. They wouldn't sit down with Trump. Why? Because no one in the world trusts anything he says. He'll Tweet a different tune by tomorrow.
Trump himself has denounced US involvement in interminable wars, yet he is about to start another one. Unilaterally without UN agreement.
Trump is NOT the emperor of the world. He needs to keep his fat fingers out of a business that is between Iran and Saudi Arabia or between Iran and the UN.
A unilateral war initiated by the US as puppy dog of the Saudis will have the primary result of increasing the hatred of the world towards the US extending far beyond the Middle East.
Many distrust the UN, yet it is a collaborative body of foreign policy experts whose main function in this case is to calm actions of an immature narcissistic hot head. Let's think about tomorrow, not just think about the fire and fury we can impose today.
4
@DGP
But, that's absurd. Trump hates the UN. He's withheld US money because some countries voted against him there. He's also talked about withdrawing from it. As he has from NATO. As he has from the WTO.
A coalition? With whom? Trump has made it clear that America neither needs - or wants - allies. He's declared countries like Canada and South Korea and the members of the European Union to be 'risks to US national security' and slapped tariffs and sanctions on them.
Mr Trump has profoundly changed the world order. He reaps what he sows.
2
@nolongeradoc The fact that an immature narcissistic hothead can't form a strategy that isn't dominated by own ego doesn't mean that the health, safety, and economy of the world is well served by his choices.
Trump will destroy himself by his ignorance and ego. Whether he destroys us or not is whether American leaders will speak out an stop him from making destructive choices.
1
Trump did not say he was waiting for the Saudis to tell him how to proceed. I listened to his press conference. He said he was waiting for input from the Saudis as to who was behind the attack which was prudent. He said he was also waiting for input from the Saudis as to what they thought the parameters of a retaliation should be, also prudent. The concept that Trump would wait for anyone to tell him how to proceed is ludicrous.
1
@JrpSLm
He certainly doesn't wait for Congress to tell him what to do.
1
@JrpSLm You have now confirmed that Trump was waiting for the Saudis to tell him what to do.
1
@JrpSLm "He said he was also waiting for input from the Saudis as to what they thought the parameters of a retaliation should be."
Trump's has left us painted in a corner. There is now no good way out of this mess -- all from a narcissistic impulse to destroy an Obama achievement.
This small, small man continues to create great chaos for our nation and the world.
9
My guess, having grown up on the South Side of Chicago where the never-ending threat of playground fist fights nurtured a prescient sense for survival and savvy survivors were always on alert: The Iranians, aware of glaring weaknesses and widening chinks in that Lummox in the White House and all his sycophantic advisors, took their best drone shots because they are truly locked and loaded and saw a moment of opportunity. One million Iranians died in their war with Iraq? The Iranians are not afraid of bleeding.
6
A classic example of fire, ready, aim, we have a person in our White House who cannot keep his mouth shut. He shoots from the lip and tweets from the hip. He truly doesn't know what he is doing because he never seems to ask for advice and when he gets it, rarely if ever takes it. He is an embarrassment to me and our allies. Hopefully, he will NOT get too many of us killed before we can vote him out.
4
Enforce the Constitution. If Trump wants to take military action against Iran he should have to formally ask Congress for a declaration of war and present the merits of his request.
7
Trump is always "locked and loaded". Easier to tweet than to form a strategy. Easier to tweet than to look someone in the eye. Besides everyone knows give him a moment or two and he will change his mind and not because he has been presented with additional information. This is an angry, simple man still fixated on the election. Does Fox and Friends have a plan?
10
I disagree with the first sentence of this editorial, and with the premise that the attack threw a “gauntlet” at Trump’s feet. And I generally agree with most of the Times’ editorial positions.
1
How can a man who constantly lies, exaggerates and thinks he's the smartest person in every room be trusted with the fates of our fighting men and women?
11
The gauntlet that was laid at Trump's feet was likely done by the Israeli's, especially Netanyahu, whom this escalation serves.
4
The Bloviator clearly used this language to placate his ignorant, gun-toting base. But it is not only a remarkable moment of Yosemite Sam in the White House but also a bit of a homage to the NRA, which owns him.
6
trump needs to understand that the American people have absolutely no appetite for war, much less a politically-motivated stunt intended to beat the drums of patriotism and win re-election for a tyrant. We will not submit to his selfish machinations.
No war with Iran. Period.
8
"the drone attacks on Saudi oil facilities early Saturday amount to a sharp provocation against the United States.".....What? That is completely looney. The war between the Sunni and Shia has been going on for 1300 years. It has nothing to do with the U.S. We have no National Security interest involved. The Saudis (9l11, al Qaeda, ISIS, Taliban) are certainly not our friends or our allies. What a ridiculous statement.
7
Except they’re in fact our ally, they’re a de facto ally of Israel, they’re a major stabilizing force in the region, they Have Oil, rhere’s the Straits of Hormuz and the Canal, the...
1
@Robert.....9/11, al Qaeda, ISIS, Taliban. Pakistan Madrassa....Please define ally. Please define (Kashoggi) a major stabilizing force in the area (whose area). We don't buy or need their oil ( our principle imports are from Canada, Mexico, and Venezuela). The U.S. has no National Security interest in the area. None!
Why is there a steady drumbeat, from center left (NYT/WP/etc...) & right to defend a country who buys hundreds of billions from us in arm sales annually? Most Americans want less, not more involvement in Middle East wars. The real question that the editorial board fails miserably to take on is why is this our fight? our problem? What it reveals is the problem with the Hillary campaign and the establishment left, being (aside from cultural fights) mechanisms of corp america and ready to do battle at their direction. This is why I will not be renewing with the Times.
You think it’s the LEFT that beats these drums?
Good grief.
8
Trump would happily send the sons and daughters of the least politically powerful American families to die in a war with Iran
in order to protect Saudi Arabia,
a country that marginalizes women, slaughters journalists who speak truth to power, and was the key sponsor of the killers behind 9/11. On hindsight, the cover-up of Saudi complicity in the 9/11 killings by the US government, on the GOP's watch, was just the beginning of things to come. Women across the world hate what Saudi Arabia does to their own women. Educated people all over the world despise the despicable death that Saudi Arabia inflicted on Jamal Khashoggi.
Women are more than half of the US population, yet we still count for nothing and our opinions are marginalized.
What American mother would willingly send her son or daughter to battle to protect Saudi Arabia? Trump, this hateful man, keeps taunting the American public by crossing lines that we never even considered that an American government would cross.
Congress, you MUST connect the dots between the Trump Family and Saudi Arabia!
Congress, you MUST act NOW to rid the world of this domestic terrorist faking his way through our US Presidency. That's The Line, and Trump is crossing it with impunity.
7
Even liberals could see one reason to prefer Trump to Hillary: her gung-ho foreign policy. Now we shall see if, freed of Bolton, the president is in fact capable of exercising restraint. Saudi Arabia’s oil business has suffered a blow; what should be or response? Why: indifference! This is the country whose festering religion brought us 9/11, and in whose embassy was butchered a respected columnist for the Washington Post.
No, whatever his motive, whether the retreat he promised us from a habit of foreign wars, or just calculated venality (the Saudis should pay for their own wars), this is a time for Mr Trump to insist to his cabinet that american forces stay put.
3
We owe the Saudis nothing.
The 9/11 terrorists were Saudis.
They fund Islamic radicals.
They are a brutal dictatorship that murders people they do not like - Mr Khashoggi, for example.
We owe them nothing.
The Saudis, on the other hand, is accountable for a lot - starting with the lives lost and damage caused on 9/11.
10
This is all the reason we need to ramp up renewable energy sources. Forget climate change, we need to be free from policing the worlds oil supply. The idea that more young americans may have to go kill people, or be killed themselves over this is disgusting.
7
Your telling me that the billions and billions of dollars worth of arms that the Saudi Arabia buys from us, they are not capable of defending themselves. They are grown up. They can murder journalists. Now defend yourselves.
8
...and, cue in the manufactured consent mafia.
This author states with absolutely no proof that "Iran has conducted this brazen attack".
We still remember how the media manufactured consent to fool us into going to war with Iraq.
2
Trump must be the only president in this world who actively works to put himself into a corner.
2
It appeared that Iran wants war more than Trump. To borrow a "bushim": Trump "misunderestimated" Iran. Now what's left except tweets, tweets and tweets?
3
"The upshot is that Iran has now apparently raised the ante, challenging the White House with a brazen attack on an ally and one of the world’s most important oil producers."
Wait a minute! Trump violates the nuclear treaty with Iran, which was abiding by the terms, imposes harsh sanctions on Iran, supports and arms Saudi Arabia in its murderous attacks on Yemen civilians, accuses Iran without proof of the drone attack. Give me a break! The Times Editorial Board ' reaction is to side the defenders of a murderous regime?
3
An impotent press decries the action (or inaction) of a blundering ignoramus while bouncing from one shiny object to the next. Meanwhile, half of an impotent Congress wrings its hands as the other half blithely pretends it knows what it's doing. And then there's the accused pervert on the Supreme Court... Just another day in the march toward madness by the so-called "greatest democracy in the world."
6
“Working with our allies.” Benny and MBS.....think about that for a second.
3
Re: your headline's question: "Locked and loaded" for purposes of making theatrical tough talk to people who are moved by theatrical tough talk. The tragedy of Trump world is that pointing out that he has a tendency to engage in theatrical blustering may actually move him prove that there is some point to it after all, which is when things really get dangerous.
Not the least of the ironies here is that Trump's delusional view of his own talents consists of his belief that can negotiate his way out of these messes by "dealmaking," having of course torched previous efforts at dealmaking (i.e. the previous nuclear weapons treaty with Iran), trashed the alliances and diplomatic support in the State Department that would make this more likely to happen and established a track record of unreliability that would make foreign governments about as eager to deal with him as the banks were after his bankruptcies.
The good news: this is nuisance aggression. Infrastructure is damaged, messages get sent, but no one is seriously hurt. That can change in a hurry, however.
In any case, this is not a good time to have a pathological liar and delusional self promotor deciding American foreign policy. Not that there ever was, but the stakes are clearly higher now.
3
@ACA...... "Locked and loaded" for purposes of making theatrical tough talk to people who are moved by theatrical tough talk."....The term "locked and loaded" comes directly from NRA propaganda.
1
Gotta love it when a weakling like Trump uses tough-guy language from the movies. I think it was Bush II or Cheney who borrowed "Bring it on!"
3
This is a man who knows 'more than the General's', who believes America's sworn adversaries are queued up behind velvet ropes to take a meeting with him, who denigrates his intelligence assets and career diplomats, who burns through allies and administrative appointees like oxy-acetalyne through tin-foil - but who is dangerously cavalier in his judgments, profoundly ignorant on all things important and woefully ill-equipped to deal with the consequences of his actions. While he should heed the advice of those who know better, it's doubtful he has the capacity to cope with opinion in conflict with his. Donald Trump should be removed from office on the grounds of incompetence, multiple breaches of his Constitutional obligations and his questionable stability. The line has been drawn and the curse has been cast... the issue is not 'Can we survive another 4 year term?' but 'Can we survive this one?'
2
How long do you think American voters, including Trump voters, will support the loss of American lives to defend the Saudi royal family ? About as long as it took to read these two sentences.
3
@Redfish: Very few American lives would be at risk in an attack on Iran. The US would almost certainly use drones, cruise missiles and advanced manned aircraft (only after Iran's air defenses were destroyed). The lives lost would be almost entirely those of Iranians. And if history is any indicator, most of those would be innocent civilians.
Our "leaders" have learned, in the conflicts following Vietnam, that Americans don't much care about the suffering and deaths of strange, "foreign" humans. And, in an environment in which all of our own troops are volunteers, our fellow Americans don care, all that much, about their lives.
2
The last line in the editorial confuses me. I've yet to see incontrovertible evidence that Iran was involved. Why would be the ultimate advantage to Iran of attacking Saudi Arabia. No pundit has even hinted at any advantage to Iran from such a blatant attack.
1
Teddy Roosevelt had the best approach to crises like this, and his considerable ego was matched with experience, bravado, and talent.
What would Iran and its proxies think of an ominous silence, instead of Trump's continual blather and empty threats?
But every photo of our Presidential Sociopath shows his ever-open mouth. Our real enemies and rivals know he's nothing but a cartoon of a strong leader. My reading shows that Iran likely orchestrated the attacks precisely because they know Trump wants reelection, not a new endless war in the Middle East.
As with Putin, they are playing this blustering weakling well.
Every tyrant in the region knows it. This is partly why Erodgan is hosting Rouhani and Putin during this event, and why Russia, not the US, supplies the latest weapons to Turkey. Assad played Obama's stupid "red line" remark well; now we have a President who makes stupid remarks daily, because there's no buffer of morality, canniness, or judgement between Fox News and his mouth.
Getting rid of this parasite in 2021 will be the most patriotic thing our nation could possibly do. Then we can deal with Iran.
This president is a danger to the country and the world.
2
Trump wants a war. There's no doubt about that. He's the schoolyard bully on steroids. He wants a confrontation with Iran. He wants to bloody Iran's nose to prove what a "tough guy" he is. But he also wants a "video game" war like Gulf War I--"shock and awe," minimal U.S. casualties, and the whole thing is over and done in a week.
He has no idea what a REAL war is--a long hard slog, advance and retreat, massive casualties, war crimes committed in the name of "national security," and a wasteful expenditure of blood and treasure.
Trump wants a war with Iran as job security. The country doesn't like to switch Presidents during a war. If he times it right, he can cruise to re-election, finish the war before his second inauguration, wrap himself in the flag, and proclaim total victory. It's the same old "long con" he's been running since he announced his candidacy. And I fear that too many Americans will fall for it again.
Trump LIKES the idea of American soldiers, Iranian soldiers, and innocent civilians dying in a war that HE commands. It fits with his cruelty and malice, as well as with his overinflated view of himself. He needs to be taken down a peg. We need to vote him out of office, and all his corrupt enablers, too. I'm tired of Der Trumpenfuhrer running this country into the ground. I want my country back.
If the US attacks Iran, it wouldn't upset me if Iran attacks Saudi Arabia and Israel, and Pakistan attacks India...
I suggest we arm the whole trump family and his administration with bone saws and let them go fight alongside the Saudi's for the attack against their oil fields. NOT ONE drop of American blood should lost for these murder's who killed an american resident so brutally!
1
Trump and Kushner are both deeply involved with Saudi dollars. This is MBS calling for a return on his investment, to be re-paid with American lives. We are now apparently a client state.
3
Thé time has come for the USA to put its own house in order.
1
A very important fact has been lost when considering Trump's reaction to first, the tankers strikes, and second, the drone strikes on Saudi oil. Directly after the first, when the Donald was considering retaliation against Iran, Putin threatened a wider war. Now he will not retaliate for the same reason.
1
Interesting to see how speculation about who launched the attack has not turned to the state that has the technical capabilities to surreptitiously carry it out, has the most to gain from embroiling Iran and Saudi Arabia in a war, has a leader who will benefit from the threat of heightened Middle East instability in his upcoming election, and would have little trouble getting Trump to commit American lives and treasure on Bibi’s behalf. Not that he wouldn't do it on MBS's behalf either.
2
@backfull So, you are saying, Israel did this hoping to start a war between Iran and Saudi Arabia?
Good Lord! I hope that is not what happened.
1
Locked and Loaded meets Already Done That. If Iran is involved in the attack, they already proved they can take out the entire Saudi oil storage. They are just waiting for someone like Donald to attack them. As the NYT and others point out, the maximum pressure strategy is based on the idea that wars are good and we can easily overthrow the Iranian leaders and have democracy, or maybe American puppets take over. France and others who signed on to Obama's agreement with Iran need to provide Trump's fragile ego some cover as he crawls back into the nuclear deal. Then, Iran says it might negotiate with him. Trump just needs his name on some deal that is slightly better than Obama's. Then, we can get back to investigating Obama for being involved in that Netflix movie, American Factory, that might win an Emmy. Is their a grown-up in the White House?
2
@Jim France and others are under no obligation to provide Trump any cover.
Trump should grow a spine, admit he was wrong, and come back to the treaty with Iran he reneged on.
2
“The upshot is that Iran has now apparently raised the ante, challenging the White House with a brazen attack on an ally …”
This Editorial was great – an evidence-based contemplation with well-balanced scepticism. The above statement flatly disregards the scepticism.
When dealing with matters of War and Peace the NYT must decide whether to adopt craven compliance with power or considered challenge to Imperialism.
1
The editorial ends with “The time has come for Mr. Trump to consult with Congress, with major industrial nations that depend on Middle Eastern oil and with military and intelligence analysts outside his immediate circle.”
While the earnestness and probity of the above statement is undeniable, its naiveté strikes the strongest chord. Trump is incapable of rational action that advances our national security. His only interest is himself, perhaps extended to his family’s financial well-being.
This crisis exposes the existential risk Trump’s narcissism presents to the globe. As usual, the Senate Republicans will cower. My only hope is that a European leader steps forward to organize the necessary response. America, sadly, is and ought to be on the sidelines.
7
So...the United States' provides the Saudis with weapons to bomb Yemen. If Iran provided weapons to Yemen for bombing the Saudis, maybe we should call it a draw and leave it at that.
7
It simply is not clear that Iran was responsible, let alone that they have "raised the ante."
4
Yemen Houtis say they caused it.
Iran says they did not.
Pompeo, with no proof says Iran did it.
I do not believe Iran did it, they have too much to lose by starting a war and nothing to gain. The Yemenis have every reason to as Saudi Arabia, with U.S. assistance has been murdering Yemen children for years now
Both Netanyahu and Salman would love to see us go to war with Iran. Netanyahu to get re=elected (election today) and take the heat of himself for the criminal charges he faces. Salman because the Sunnis have had a religious war going against the Shia for centuries.
Iran is a sophisticated and educated society. They kicked Mahmoud Ahmadinejad out of office in order to start a peace process, which they did when they signed the nuclear pact Trump dumped.
3
@Jussmartenuf....Or was it Netanyahu trying to bolster his reelection or staged by the Saudis themselves.? Why should we care who is responsible, this has nothing to do with any U.S. national security interest.
1
When a president makes the decision to undue a previous policy or agreement because of his ego that is when the road to perdition begins. Our relationship with Iran was once based on what each could get out of the other. For the Shah it was a return to the Peacock Throne. For the US it was a client state to help hold back Russian interference in the region. Regarding SA it was we will back the house of Saud & they keep pumping the oil. At this time the US is in a bind. Trump negated the treaty regarding the development of Iran's nuclear program because it was an Obama idea that came to be. So one thing leads to another. The treaty is vacated, economic sanctions are increased and the more extreme elements in Iran begin to try to take control. Loyalty to SA { perhaps because they buy so many of his condos and our weapons} has lead us to have a blind eye with their disregard for fundamental human rights and a proxy war with Iran. Unfortunately Yemen is their battleground and they are paying a very high price. Add to this the underlying itch for some to stick it to Iran. Both Iran & SA are bad actors but a slight of hand via diplomacy is needed . Unfortunately that may not be possible Even if the State Department was not emptied of its more experienced Mid East diplomats Trump would not listen to them. I honestly do not know how this end up . Hopefully Trump will tweet himself out the corner that he has backed himself & our nation into.
This is an opportunity for the U.S. to export more oil. Why should we defend the Saudis? When was the last time they worked in our interests and not their own?
1
Unless the United States and Saudi Arabia have a mutual defense pact, I'm not sure we are obligated or even legally allowed to attack anyone for this provocation; an act of economic sabotage. This is not a case of collective or self defense, as the United States was not targeted.
Also, the Saudis are armed well enough with U.S-made weapons, unless they were sold just to enrich defense contractors.
Was the US attacked? I don't think so. Any attack by the US on Iran would be illegal. Not to mention that it's Trump "thinking" about it so there's not the slightest possibility it's justified in any way, shape, or form.
6
Maybe Trump is "locked and loaded" to create economies that will teach farmers around the world that burning rainforests for Palm Oil and other farming is a GIANT step to destroying the world's climate? Perhaps Trump is convening a team to help countries around the world with environmental challenges on which trees to plant, and how to live WITH the rainforest (or desert) and still thrive?
https://www.theatlantic.com/photo/2019/09/fires-indonesia-blanket-islands-and-cities-smog-photos/598105/
2
It is worth noting that the defense department is willing to sell F-18s to the Saudis but will not let them perform maintenance on them. Saudis fly the missions but aside from that they are not allowed anywhere near these aircraft, they are maintained by American contractors with US clearances. That is how much the DOD trusts the Saudis.
4
Iran has evidently decided that if it can’t sell its oil, Saudi Arabia shouldn’t either. By imposing a kind of oil embargo, it raises pressure to lift the sanctions. And, as a bonus, if it results in recession, Trump might find himself unelected.
It’s easy to believe they concluded they’ll get away with it. Trump has shied away from military engagement and frayed our alliances. They rightly determined he’s unlikely to go to war, and unlikely to find support if he did, in which case they’d win while achieving their main objective of denying the world oil so long as the sanctions stand.
Makes sense to me.
1
@James K. Lowden Except that we have no proof that Iran did this.
1
There is the temptation to write just "Who cares?" Many enlightened people who care more about the environment and climate change have commented on those issues being the most important about this situation. Sadly, let the powers that be in the Middle East have whatever fight they seem to want to have (ancient tribalism) seemingly for all eternity. Our responsible plan now would be one of technologically containing it from a distance and otherwise concentrating on eliminating fossil fuels as a primary energy source. But it wouldn't continue to enrich oil execs and weapons manufacturers, so never mind.
1
Trump's loyalty to the Saudi's---his business partner--comes before the interests of this country. This is merely another violation of his role as President--putting his own business interests over the interests of the country. The Trump Blight on this country needs to be removed.
5
You don't have to be any more informed than our uninformed president to understand that any military action against Iran within the borders of Iran invited Iranian retaliatory strikes against Saudi Arabia within the boundaries of the kingdom.
Those strikes would be aimed at Saudi oil fields and production facilities, aimed at wrecking them entirely and since oil is the kingdom and the kingdom is oil, the Saudi's know that would be the end of the kingdom and the House of Saud.
It's called checkmate so unlock and unload Mr. President.
5
Saudi Arabia is attacked, maybe by Iran. We were not attacked by Iran. So why is it the U.S., not Saudi Arabia, that is talking about declaring war on Iran? If Saudi Arabia, or Israel or John Bolton and his friends would like to have a war with Iran, they can go declare war on Iran. (The image of Mr. Bolton personally leading the charge up the beach, rifle in hand, is arresting.) They'd rather we go to war for them, so the dead soldiers and the bills are ours, and not theirs. But the U.S. shouldn't. And have we forgotten so soon where the 9/11 attackers were egged on from, or which regime murdered Khashoggi? That regime has never deserved our support.
4
House Democrats should pass an immediate resolution forbidding the use of military force against Iran without congressional approval. They should also make it clear they will not approve the use of military force until they have been fully apprised of the president's personal financial entanglements with the Saudis. Does anyone doubt this president would start a war if he stood to profit by it?
6
I want to see the #GrifterInChief present a cost benefit analysis of a short-term rise in oil prices versus the cost of his "locked and loaded" response. Saudis have plenty of $ and weapons (thanks to arms sales by US companies). If an armed response is needed, they should bear the cost, financially and in dead citizens, not the US. I'm willing to pay more for gas and oil etc to avoid another 20 year conflict. let's invest in our people and infrastructure, for the future, rather than protecting the interests of our (not!) friends the Saudis
4
History will likely remember this as a blunder for Iran. Instead of attacking the US military in the region, they have engaged a sovereign Saudi Arabia and gave them cause for direct military response. The US just gained a proxy in our fight against Iran and will likely supply Saudi Arabia with enough firepower to inflict painful damage to Iran. Neither country have the military power to vanquish the other but will become significantly weaker and lose their regional influence. Trump is "locked and loaded" for what? For giving SA whatever they need to retaliate against Iran.
1
Iran has raised the stakes? Are we forgetting that the US has basically waged economic war on Iran and has actively sought to harm it and its people through economic means? And, this was done despite Iran's abidding by an international agreement that the US spearheaded. Its quite clear from his history that Trump's word is basically worthless, so why should anybody expect the Iranians to see negotiating with him as having any validity whatsoever?
6
Trump has been outmaneuvered, which is not surprising given his ignorance of foreign policy, his refusal to listen to his intelligence staff, his surrounding himself with ideological zealots, and his "seldom right but never in doubt" approach to everything. John Bolton would say he blew it by not bombing Iran immediately after withdrawing from the JCPA, but now he's got the excuse he needed.
It took Barack Obama years to maneuver Iran into the nuclear agreement in exchange for easing sanctions. The very fact that he was able to get Iran to agree to give up ANY of its theretofore non-negotiable nuclear/political capital was a major accomplishment. Trump's obsession with undoing everything Obama has not taken us back to where we were before the JCPA; it has taken us farther away from being able to negotiate any nuclear issues with Iran.
Trump has managed to put us in a position where our choices are limited to starting another war in the Middle East or negotiating an stop to Iran's regional aggression. And what does he have to negotiate with? Economic sanctions, because Iran's bring-it-on attitude towards all out war with the US is an invitation to sink even further into the Middle East quicksand than we already have.
Nicely played, Mr President. We've gone from containing Iran's nuclear program and enticing them into the 21st century with economic carrots, to the brink of war at the behest of one of the worst regimes on the planet.
6
@Jim
You are so right!
Thank you!
This "art of the deal" hero that we have for a president would have a rough time travelling in my circuit. Down here in the south, we can deal with about anything. I remember a story told by George Wallace, whom I did not support because I am way too liberal, when he told of some Yankee counterfeiters who created a $19 bill and when they realized that, they decided that the only way they could get away with using it was to go into the South, "they are dumb enough to take it."
So they came South and the first place they stopped for gas, they got a dollar's worth, meaning that they would get $18 in change. The red neck who put the gas in just looked at the $19 bill and asked "how do you want your change, three sixes or two nines?"
I once worked in the NYC territory for a company and my manager thought I was too unsophisticated to sell to such a sophisticated market. By the year's end, I had quadrupled the sales of the Ivy Leaguer who preceded me.
I would like for this master deal maker to try to get the best of me in a deal.
3
Saudi Arabia was attacked NOT the U.S. They have 67 billion dollars worth of weapons we sold them and were attacked with cheap drones.
Congress must stop supporting Saudi Arabia (logistics and intelligence) in this inhumane war against the people of Yemen.
4
“Locked and loaded,” a worn, unimaginative expression likely from macho movies, intended to provide heighten drama through threat. That’s where we are now with our diplomatic team of one in Trump whose default seems to be in the category of daring and double-daring. He who bragged it was all about him and his power to dominate has been exposed to look silly in the world. It would be of no surprise if Iran was responsible for the attack on Saudi oil facilities. Even so though, would this justify going to war? Is Saudi oil on world market that much our god? Or have we become the puppet of the Saudis? And if going to war, how many wars can we do or threaten at once? Trump, as the military strategist from school-day prep, is not credible. Clearly, Trump-the-bully, backs himself ... and us ... into a corner through mouthing off ... again, as is his wont. And no matter what as far as responsibility for causing oil inconvenience goes, Iran comes out on top this time.
1
I think it is ironic that our country's Republican Draft-Dodgers in Chief like Trump, Bush, and Cheney are so quick to shoot first. Their utter lack of understanding of the Middle East, akin to that of a grade school kid from the 1950s, exposes the country to serious financial, military, and reputation risks.
No doubt Iranian weapons technology was used in this attack, but who cares? Saudi Arabia has been actively killing people in Yemen for several years. Why should they be surprised that the Houthis are turning weapons on them? And since when does Saudi Arabia call our military shots? Is Trump a President or a pawn? He made part of this mess by repudiating the treaty and seems like little more than a puppet!
Finally, how is this mess something we should be involved in? We produce enough oil we don't need the Saidis. Most of the 911 terrorists were Saudi. They have actively helped destabilize the region with Quatar. And they killed a Washington Post journalist. Why not sit this one out? How beholden is Trump to the Saudis for financing?
4
The President should not only :consult with Congress" before taking military action against Iran, he should gain express Congressional approval. And before giving that approval, Congress should consider why the wealthy nation of Saudi Arabia, equipped with American weapons, cannot defend itself without our participation.
4
The Times correctly calls out Trump's troubling "compulsion to undo President Barack Obama’s legacy" by withdrawing from the Iran nuclear deal. But once again the Times papers over Obama's other legacy as the facilitator of the horrific Saudi bombing campaign in Yemen, which is at the heart of the current conflict. The Times further obscures when it says MBS "got his kingdom and the United States into the enormously destructive civil war in Yemen." Last I checked, the U.S. is a sovereign nation that makes its own military choices. And as much as we'd like to blame Trump, it was actually Obama who green-lit the Yemen bombing campaign, which has been waged with $100 bil. in weapons Obama sold to the Saudis. Obama also continued to provide essential intelligence and mid-air fueling support to Riyadh long after it became clear he was targeting Yemeni civilians. Obama even directed U.S. warships to fire into Yemen at the end of his term.
Let's be clear -- Democrats have been just as friendly to our dear, murderous friends in Saudi Arabia as Trump & Repubs. They just don't talk about it, and in many ways, that's more frightening. At least Trump's being honest. We on the left have to wake up and open our eyes to the ways the politicians we support are complicit in propping up immoral regimes and waging our perpetual wars. And we -- unlike the Times -- need to call them out on it as the 2020 presidential campaign proceeds and demand that things change going forward.
3
1) The incident didn't happen on US soil and no US citizens were hurt. It doesn't directly involve us. Unless, of course, we take it upon ourselves to get involved.
2) There is no direct evidence at this point that Iran did it, sanctioned it, or even knew about it. Sure, they're suspect #1, but given the repressive and violent nature of actions of the Saudi regime towards its own people, the list of folks with a grievance against the Kingdom is hardly a short one.
And we're going to base our response on what the Saudis want us to do? Recipe for disaster.
8
"The upshot is that Iran has now apparently raised the ante, challenging the White House with a brazen attack on an ally and one of the world’s most important oil producers."
I'm still waiting for incontrovertible proof...and so should the NYTimes.
4
Why does the Times board declares that I quote:" .. the drone attacks on Saudi oil facilities early Saturday amount to a sharp provocation against the United States."?
Since when does the US have a mutual defense treaty with Saudi Arabia?
What are the values that the US share with Saudi Arabia, the country who gave us most 9/11 terrorists and Bin Ladden?
How could the Board advocates US soldiers dying for a country which extreme views of religion ( Wahhabism) has spread deaths and terrorism all over the world?
Saudi Arabia has destroyed what was left of Yemen while killing hundred thousands of civilians with US weapons. Even republicans in US congress have denounced the administration support for a war that has devastated that country.
Now that the Yemeni are fighting back, whether is with Iranian help or not, the US is supposed to spend blood and treasure to defend the Saudi regime?
US soldiers will risk their lives to defend a country where women have no rights, a country where gay people get killed for being gay. A country whose ruler uses a bone saw to kill a journalist he doesn't like.
How, but how can anyone justify the US risking the lives of soldiers who have enlisted to defend this country and its values risking their lives on behalf of Saudi Arabia, 5 days after the 18th anniversary of 9/11?
7
@Chaks So very well put.
1
Whatever happened to the big lie that if the United States is self-sufficient in oil, that we would be insulated from the effects of rising oil prices abroad?
5
This is one of the most witless NYT editorials I've read in recent years. The Times veers from "What Should We Do?" to its 10 thousandth chorus of "Trump is an often capricious loner."
Of course, it's not easy - candidly, the Times lacks (how could it be otherwise) the staff or expertise to appraise Trump's options - military, especially.
Astute readers (of the Times) will, of course, note that just as Vietnam changed everything for people born after WW II ended - in terms of what America's "might" could do and should do,
the Iraq War during W's Presidency clearly is the 1000 pound gorilla in the room where this editorial was pecked out.
The Times - along with several nations and millions of civilians got burned by Cheney-Bolton-like apparatchiks!
Worst of all, the Times - knowing that this type of editorial HAS TO end with something by way of "what should he do?" - suggests that Trump consult with nations other than S.A. and intelligence experts outside his administration.
Why not go whole hog and ask Trump to pray for guidance?!
Is there really anyone at the Times who thinks a leopard (THIS leopard) can or will change his spots?
One comes away thinking that the Times didn't counsel restraint - not explicitly - either because they don't want to be on the wrong side of history AGAIN ... or they fear that if Trump senses that folks like the Times Editor & Publisher urge him not to retaliate, that will impel him to do the opposite, i.e., to launch a military strike!
1
The NYT editorial board looks to be packed with unabashed liberal dreamers. Trump calls the shots and the appeasers in the Senate dance his tune no matter how unhappy they profess to dislike the president’s cockamamie judgment. The waffler president first says ‘we are locked and loaded’ threatening an imminent military response to the attack on the Saudi oil plants. Today, he has reversed course. No thought for Trump before
He shoots his mouth off. At least he is consistent at reversing course. It is now the expected gambit.
2
Trump's first impeachment hearings are being held today. Is Trump trying to get our minds off that? I welcome these hearings but they will have to end with a finale we can all be happy with. Keep Trump's mind off war. He said he wanted to be a war President when he was running. I listened. Didn't anyone else?
4
We have heard "locked and loaded" previously from the very same source. It had to do, several weeks ago, with the supposed instructions to US armed forces in the Middle East, suggesting a military strike against Iran.
Each person who walks this earth has his or her own storage container of verbal tics.
From the above-mentioned source, to cite the most odious example, the word "terrible" -- as in "terrible president" -- is another tic making reference to his immediate predecessor as the president of the United States.
We have also heard, again from the same source, the invocation of "outstanding" tic. This superlative has been attached to such persons as James Mattis, Rex Tillerson, and most recently John Bolton, among others.
Of course "locked and loaded" is bluster. More importantly, it is 'dangerous' from the vantage point of national security. "Terrible" is odious. And 'outstanding' is short lived given the fact that each of the persons he attaches it to has exited from their position in the administration.
Another phrase that recurs, in this instance on his daily schedule, is "executive time." This means that there is nothing of his schedule, thereby enabling him to devote his valuable time to watching the 'shows,' from which he gathers information that colors his performance.
4
"Old Bone Spurs" wants to protect his friend "Young Bone Saws"; as is usual with this Faux President, Trump has to wait for instructions from his new Master, Saudi Prince MBS.
Donald Trump has shown himself to be a cowardly weakling with Vladimir Putin, Kim Jong Un and now Saudi Prince MBS.
I think we need to see the evidence Donald Trump is talking about, because he lies on virtually everything and I don't trust Donald Trump on the facts or his judgement.
It seems to me Donald Trump set this all in motion by stupidly pull out of the Iranian Nuclear Deal that was working with all the allies, only because President Obama negotiated it; there is something phycological going on with Trump and his Obama derangement syndrome.
7
Mendacious narcissistic egotistical confrontational “ only i know”
‘ America first’
Gee i wonder why trump can’t call on America’s allies for support? He’s sooooo
trustworthy .....
S/m
3
Saudi Arabia has been bombing Yemen for years, but when Yemen finally counter attacks everyone is surprised. There is lots of talk that the Houthi don't have that kind of technology, yet all it would take is one not very smart but highly motivated aerospace engineer to put a "drone" together using mostly available off the shelf technology to facilitate what was really Yemen getting a few "kicks" in. Saudi Arabia has thought that because they had all of the money and fire power that they could act with impunity. Well guess what, the "dog" you have been kicking has some fangs! Maybe it is time for everyone to take a step back and think about where this could be heading.
4
Big, tough, ignorant, self-dealing blowhard. Pompeo, too. Sweep them out, before they kill us all, with short term profit as their goal.
10
@ChesBay I'm with you on big, ignorant, self-dealing blowhard, but there's nothing "tough" about Trump whatsoever. He's not a fighter. He's not a brawler. What his supporters call "punching back" is really just a man-baby throwing a tantrum.
2
The president is a Traitor plain and simple. he aid Russia, Saudi Arabia, Panders to North Korea etc etc etc. Traitor plain and simple.
4
Is it "locked and loaded" this time? What about "cocked and loaded"? This may be another verbal sign of Trump's early dementia. I want the media to write more about Trump's dis-inhibitions. This is a telltale sign of losing his mental faculties. John Gartner wrote an excellent piece on this for USA Today recently, April 9th, 2019.
4
Trump is always "locked and loaded." He fires off his mouth about firing off our guns. He slings childish insults like a five year old. It's how he rolls.
He acts and speaks before he thinks, and reacts instead of responding thoughtfully. He has no edit or pause function. He defaults to making threats against people and nations instead of first applying informed, considered judgment to complex situations that require it.
To Trump, a bully pulpit is a pulpit for bullying, consequences be damned. What's worse is that he doesn't seem to care. He believes, since he is the one ultimately making decisions, that his advisors don't need to work. Just like Trump.
That would seem to imply that they are the most overpaid employees of the federal government. They are not. That would be Trump, even considering that he gives away his salary. Americans end up paying him what he's worth: nothing.
4
More bluster from the presidential windbag. Should be called "Mocked and Goaded". As someone who worked in the WTC, I'm happy that the Saudis are finally getting their comeuppance after decades of exporting their toxicity elsewhere. Maybe now they'll finally realize what war is really about.
11
Hold on! I thought there wasn't enough proof to determine Iran attacked the refinery. What about Netanyahu and a false flag attack to shake up his election today? They're all unscrupulous power brokers who exaggerate and lie no matter who they kill. The United States record of honesty about going to war in my lifetime, Viet Nam to the present, is nonexistent. This is horrible a continuation of the same old fiasco we've been mired in for decades. Vote Blue!
7
Yeah, yeah, yawn. "Build a wall", "drain the swamp", "lock her up", "fire and fury", "locked and loaded", "mac and cheese", "beans and franks", we get it, the three-word phrase, short, simple, and easily remembered by even the most moronic dolt.
Remember its one big drawback; overuse. Its brevity and simplicity lend well to chanting and repetition, but using it too often can make one sound like a simpleton that no one takes seriously.
12
That America should ask Saudi Arabia how to proceed in its foreign policy is mind numbing. trump is a perfect example of a man completely out of his depth. He does not understand foreign policy and has no idea what he is doing and the ramifications of his actions. For those paying attention, trump did it before when he reverted to the NRA on how to proceed after the shootings in Texas. Republicans have brought our country to a new low. Vote Democrat in 2020. Choose a better path and future for America and the world.
10
Who controls US foreign policy and the use of the military?
The US? Or, the Saudis?
10
We are locked and loaded waiting for Saudi Arabia to order us to attack Iran. Like the border wall will be paid by Mexico, our paid mercenaries will be paid by Saudi Arabia. Do we charge a fee for this service?
4
@John
The fee comes due every April 15th or so. It gets sent to the wrong address.
4
"Left to his own devices, Mr. Trump has generally preferred to avoid conflict."
Why does Trump avoid conflict? Because he's a cowardly bully. He enjoys stirring the pot, then backs down whenever challenged. He insults leaders and countries on Twitter or camera, but interestingly never in person.
Trump speaks impulsively, failing to consider the implications of his words. He lies. He distracts. Rather than surrounding himself with prudent advisors, he prefers (and rewards) sycophants. This man is unprepared, by experience or inclination, to address conflict in any manner that could protect our nation and the world.
We need a real president. 2020 can't come soon enough.
7
I have suspicions whether the drone attack has Trump/sympathizers behind it. Trump is looking for reasons to go to war with Iran. Hope he keeps the US out of his personal ambitions for war glory!
2
They never fail to tell us that gas prices will go up 25 cents. Oh dear !
3
@Joe Gilkey Is it true that that the U.S. oil industry is exporting oil because the price overseas is more than the market pays here?
1
I call on the military leaders in our country to use EXTREME Vetting of any "facts" that Trump puts out. I call on them to use a very high bar based on the fact that the Saudi-drone Trump will take whatever the crown prince gives him over any fact-based intelligence the US military and national intelligence systems gather.
The US military knows what the consequences of war are. The draft-dodging bully in the pulpit does not.
3
I'm trying to sort this out. The United States has been supporting the Saudi war in Yemen. That war has been characterized as being genocidal. The Yemeni side has been saying that they blew up the Saudi refinery. The Saudis have not yet blamed anyone. Trump says that the Iranians did it. No evidence to corroborate that claim has yet been produced. Presumably, no evidence is needed because the Iranians are the bad guys and therefore automatically guilty. The Times seems to buy into that assertion.
Is there even the slightest possibility that the Yemenis did it. And if they did it with Iranian technology, is that worse than the Saudis bombing Yemen with American technology?
And I'm supposed to believe Trump about anything?
7
"The time has come for Mr. Trump to consult with Congress, with major industrial nations that depend on Middle Eastern oil and with military and intelligence analysts outside his immediate circle."
You are premature. If intelligence clearly reveals Iran as the source of the attack, then, sure, do all of those things. If, however, the Houthi rebels managed that attack . . . well, the Saudis made their bed, let them lie in it.
1
Donald Trump says that Saudi Arabia will reimburse us for any war we under take with Iran, does that include the American sons and daughters who die for Trump's irresponsible foreign policy.
How does Saudi Arabia, the place where the 9/11 attackers came from, reimburse the Father's and Mother's for children of theirs that may be killed due to Trump sending them off as mercenaries?
4
Don’t do it. This could be our next Vietnam.
2
@heinrichz
...if we are lucky. WWIII if not.
This is the inevitable result of electing a blundering reality show character and failed businessman to the presidency. His floundering foreign policy, or lack thereof, has thrown the world into chaos. Around the globe, we are seeing economic, diplomatic and potentially military crises that are directly attributable to this president's incompetence.
He is waging senseless and incoherent trade wars that have triggered global economic slowdowns. He has alienated our allies. He withdrew from an agreement with Iran that took years to negotiate and was working well. He has absolutely no idea what he is doing, and has no interest or capacity to learn.
The impact this president has inflicted on the world will have longlasting implications well after he has left the White House. It may take generations to repair his damage.
423
@DGT in CT
I agree with your assessment of Donald Trump’s disastrous presidency. But the original gangster was George W. Bush and his amoral criminal administration. Remember he’s the one who launched the misbegotten wars with end in Afghanistan and Iraq. And don’t forget about his CIA Torture, Inc. program. Bush also drove our economy into the ground in 2008. The ascendancy of the racist oaf who is currently occupying the Oval Office is a direct result/consequence of Bush’s myriad crimes against humanity both here and abroad. Until he and his co-conspirators are held accountable, we will continue to reap what they have sown.
29
I wholly agree; and feat the neither our country nor out world will be the same post-Trump!! Hopefully this occurs sooner rather than later. As Forrest Gump, said: "Stupid is as stupid does!" These are profound words during the Donald's chaotic asinine administration. He cannot be removed from the Presidency fast enough in my estimation: I truly fear our nation and particularly our nation's standing within the global community will never be the same! This nation has sacrificed something that it may never recover thanks to the Donald. He has made this once great nation a laughingstock in the eyes of our former allies. I truly doubt any remain at this point.
21
@DGT in CT He wasn't really elected. He was...chosen by a kink in the system that was never intended to have this kind of result. In fact the opposite.
Support the National Popular Vote!
40
Without discussing the complicating factor of climate change, this article misses complexity and an opportunity to propose that the US, in addition to its now robust oil production, move further towards alternative energy sources to lessen our reliance on oil and gas - a good thing, considering the planet is showing us in more and more dramatic ways the costs of our folly.
If drone attacks are that will get the world leaders, political and corporate, to stop the addiction to oil and start seriously doing the systemic changes needed to address climate change, well, bring them on. These leaders have not done nearly enough to address climate change, and many have actively sabotaged the efforts of scientists and others to warn us.
We're not the only lives that matter - how about all LIFE itself matters, including the biosphere and all her inhabitants, without which we cannot live.
If even 1 percent of the military budget were dedicated to addressing the infrastructure, scientific, and land needs to address climate change, we would live in a different world.
And the thought of American blood being shed on behalf of Saudi Arabia is nauseating, considering their role in the 9-11 attacks, for which they were never held to account, and the murder of an American journalist.
436
@Barbara Trump has painted himself and our foreign policy into a corner as a an another commenter said, but he has also done so on the issue of climate change which he has declared is a scientific hoax. As important as your comment is Trump catering to his base will never take positive action on climate change. He really does need to go if we are to take any action to save our planet.
23
@Barbara Agree completely. Moreover, I find the NYT reference to Saudi Arabia as an "ally" as patently offensive. While the geopolitcal dynamics of our relationship with Saudi Arabia are obvously complex, they are also fraught. "Allies" do not do what Saudi Arabia does. Even the entire notion that we somehow "need" Saudi Arabia like we supposedly once did is clearly antiquated by our ability to produce our own oil and by the forces of climate change that compel that we change every aspect in which we live.
44
@Barbara Your point is well made and taken, and would carry more weight if there was an iota of sense at work in this administration. But if you think Trump and his dysfunctional group of sycophants are going to see an Iranian attack on western oil interests as a sign that we should build more windmills and install more solar panels... well, rainbows and unicorns.
Unfortunately, it is not far more likely that Trump will do something incredibly stupid in response to this --- it is absolutely certain.
18
My tax dollars should not be spent on defending the rich Saudi Oil companies. Saudi Arabia has received weapons from us, let them defend themselves. We should stay out of it.
Our problem with Iran was caused by Mr. Trump reneging on an Agreement. We can't expect him to fix it, but we should vote him out.
4
The US was not attacked. This conflict is between Saudi Arabia and Iran, and we are not the House of Saud's henchmen. Let the Saudis take on the Iranians themselves, if they dare, or let them present their case to the UN for tougher sanctions on Iran, or some other suitable response.
617
@JLErwin3 We are not their henchmen? Oh, yes we are. We are their supplier of weaponry being used to kill civilians in Yemen. We are the buyer of their oil. We are their apologists for murder. And, if MBS says so, we will be the point of their spear against Iran.
32
@JLErwin3
"Let the Saudis take on the Iranians themselves"
Yes, that will be the day! With MBS's BFF in the Oval Office, we should remember that the Saudis will fight until the last American falls.
16
@JLErwin3-You'v identified the critical reason why the U.S. should not give Saudi Arabia nuclear technology.
https://www.armscontrol.org/act/2019-03/news-briefs/report-blows-whistle-saudi-nuclear-talks
10
Trump has gone against Congress in selling weapons to Saudi Arabia, so it seems the country has the capability to defend itself, as he has said many times. The only thing we’re really assured of is that oil prices will go up regardless.
It’s also difficult not to acknowledge that a few weeks ago the President changed the weather with a Sharpie. It was a trivial episode, except that it decreased the President’s credibility, credibility that he desperately needs if he’s pronouncing us “locked and loaded.”
383
@Joanna Only the willfully ignorant ever thought trump had any credibility. He had a lifetime of double dealing and fraud as his credentials. The Office has not changed the man nor will it.
30
Isn't this exactly the scenario we feared? After driving our allies away, and demonstrating to the world that he should not be trusted, a situation has arisen that threatens the world's economy and could ignite a major war in the Middle East. Trump has no one to help him navigate this crisis, having surrounded himself with temps and empty offices. His instincts are just no match for experience and intelligence data. All he has is bluster and empty, ill-advised threats.
591
@Randomonium Trump has plenty of advisers in Israel who regularly interfere in American elections and are to a large extent responsible for the incoherence of American Foreign Policy.
12
@Randomonium worse yet: he doesn’t trust his own intelligence agencies. Then he asks the Saudis, who would give anything to get us to fight their war, to verify if this was instigated by Iranians!! Really??
7
"Locked and loaded" should be reserved for actors in movies, not the POTUS who is essentially called upon to act on behalf of the world and its need for Saudi oil.
The fact is that the US does not need the oil, has sold Saudi Arabia enough arms to defend itself, and certainly doesn't need to be fighting the war of a wealthy royal family that butchers dissidents, bombs innocent people, and presides over the country that brought us 9/11.
At the very least, our TV actor president needs to get serious about enlisting advisors who know the region, not just relying on his own brain and that of Secretary Pompeo. I fear we are a rudderless ship with no compass, heading into a tempest, and no one has a life jacket.
925
@David The presidency is nothing more substantial than a reality show for Trump. In this case, he's clearly The Apprentice and the American people get to say "You're fired!" in 2020.
55
@David
He should get real advisers who have experience, resumes and real credentials.
This should exclude Jared, Ivanka and the rest of the trump family.
44
@David He is not "relying on his own brain", nor is he "rudderless". This is all about the wallets and bank accounts of the Trump and Kushner families. Donald Trump and his family business want to build at least two major hotels in Saudi Arabia after he leaves office. Jared Kushner needs Saudi financing for his family's real estate projects. This is what drives America's foreign policy: Lining the pockets of America's Royal Family.
77
Because he spends so much of his time watching TV and reads hardly at all, Trump has the mundane/bad habit of resorting to jargon and buzz words. Let's face it, his vocabulary is quite limited (as is his imagination). So there should be no surprise that he would resort to one of his favorite pet phrases, "locked and loaded," during a crisis. Trump is a walking, talking comic book. But no one should be laughing.
7
Whoever launched this attack knows just how ill-equipped the Trump Administration is to respond to this situation with any kind of either effective negotiations or an effective military response. All of our former allies know what a false player Trump is on the world stage. They all know that he has few if any seasoned foreign affairs experts working for and with him. They know that he flies by the seat of his pants and the advice of whomever he spoke to last. This could be a recipe for disaster and could put the United States in a very dicey situation.
3
Has anyone examined the possibility the attack on Saudi oil facilities was conducted by one of the electric car companies? Maybe Tesla or Volkswagen? They certainly have the means and the motive.
1
Weapons such as used against Saudi Arabia don't grow on trees, of which Yemen has precious few remaining, anyhow. so they came from somewhere other than Yemen, and may have use restricted by that source. Still. Is it unreasonable for Yemen, under severe and very unilateral bombardment for several years, to use available tools to make the point that 'Enough, already?' Very clearly, the only thing that Saudi will even consider as a brake on its actions, is force. By any of the standard 'laws of war' (morally and legally; there actually are such things!) Yemen's response was restrained and focused. More than can be said for the US on any military actions since '9/11' - Gulf One, really. Will the Yemeni action ate the US' attention in the way intended? Unlikely. But were i them, I'd do far worse, given the weapons available. they -whether as proxies for some other power or not - have shown admirable restraint. For whatever (or whosoever's) reasons.
"Locked and Loaded" These are the words used by tinhorn dictators and bullies with no actual experience, but needing to cover themselves in the flag, by standing next to giants. It's time to realize that his only goal is self aggrandizement, while lining his pockets all at our expense, literally, socially, morally.
1
Whoever launched this attack knows just how ill-equipped the Trump Administration is to respond to this situation with any kind of either effective negotiations or an effective military response. All of our former allies know what a false player Trump is on the world stage. They all know that he has few if any seasoned foreign affairs experts working for and with him. They know that he flies by the seat of his pants and the advice of whomever he spoke to last. This could be a recipe for disaster and could put the United States in a very dicey situation.
2
It doesn't make any sense for Iran to stage an attack on Saudi Arabia while the US President is desperately looking for an enemy ahead of 2020. What does make sense is Israel staging an attack on Saudi Arabia and implicating Iran while the US President is desperately looking for an enemy ahead of 2020.
Ask yourself who will benefit most from this war: the US Marines who go die in the desert? The US economy as us struggles under the weight of yet another $1,100,000,000,000 forever war? Or will it be the GOP-owned defense companies who make bombs with your tax money?
6
But aren't they our allies? Didn't the WTC attack almost topple our economy? Along with rampant greed, that is. Do the Iranians have the same idea about blowing up oil fields or maybe using nukes to prove how great they are?
Thinking without box but we have the opportunity to drill in Alaska and open off shore oil to drilling. Mexico has oil too. So we wouldn't have to depend on the Middle East? Do we need this?
2
Trump’s negotiation tactics reflect a lifetime of craven intimidation aimed at cowing adversaries, real and imagined. It leaves no room for compromise and reflects his distain for win-win outcomes. His narcissistic need to win at all costs combined with an insecure need to trash any Obama administration initiative so he can appear to be the “bigger man” is nothing short of infantile.
At its core, his personalization of American foreign policy comes at the expense of broader national collective/shared outcomes. The NYT editorial lead citing “few options and few allies” is the direct result of his deep seated self-absorption. His distain for guidance and critique is fundamental to who he is and is dangerous for our Republic.
Sadly, those who have watched his career over the decades are not surprised and feel largely powerless since the entire Republican power structure lacks the courage to temper his worst impulses, which are many. I only hope disaster can be avoided until he can be voted out of office.
1
Hearing the "locked and loaded" yammering from a person who did not have the courage to serve this country is a perversion.
The only thing trump has locked and loaded is his medicine cabinet.
4
Americans will never get behind this suspicious, irresponsible proposal. We have experience with presidents who lie in order to profit their cronies, regardless of the human price. I wouldn't be surprised if SA attacked its own facility, to cause an international incident, and start a war with their sworn religious enemies, Iran. If THEY want to fight Iran, let THEM do so, without the U.S. This is not a NATO-style alliance. Stop giving them weapons! Furthermore, if we adopt the Green New Deal, there will never again be any reason to fight over filthy oil.
3
Trump's legacy is carved in stone. He prides himself on reality TV expressions (such as locked and loaded) without any notion of what he's doing. We should all be nervous that Trump is the most unstable commander-in-chief in our history. He has alienated our NATO allies who now know he can't be trusted. His allegiance is to Saudi Arabia not because he has any interest in defending them against attack but because he is tied to them with business dealings. The last person we need to make life or death decisions is Donald Trump.
1
So who bought oil futures last week before Saturday's attack?
7
The decades long failure of the Article I legislative branch to exercise it's sole right to declare and pay for war is shredding the delicate checks and balances of our divided limited different power constitutional republic of united states.
The imperial Preidency is a self- inflicted wound. Which the American people with their ultimate sovereign power over their elected and selected hired help have the power to remedy.
4
Trump is loath to attack Iran or any other country. Recall that he is an isolationist. That is one of the reasons he fired Mr. Bolton.
However, he might encourage Israel to attack Iran, especially if Netanyahu is re-elected. In that case, we would be drawn into the fray anyway.
2
@Diogenes
Remember that Bush II ran a campaign in 2000 against, among other neo-liberal principles, "nation-building". Three years later he took on the most expensive and long lasting nation-building exercise the world has ever seen. We will be paying for it, figuratively and literally, for the next century. If you take his book at face value, he has no regrets about the decision. In the gift that keeps on giving, the demise of Iraq has lead to the rise of Iran, which has been, is even more so now, and for a long time will be, the thorn in our paw. They are now pushing the limits to see if we will continue to expand Bush's folly. At least they know that the US's ultimate fate as world power or power of any kind is tied with theirs. We've put our destiny in the hands of a lot of nations (Saudi Arabia, China, Israel, Russia, Iran, for starters) who don't ultimately care what happens to us.
1
This was an attack on the Saudi’s not America and they frankly brought it upon themselves by getting involved in the war in Yemen. What did they think would happen in war? We warned then constantly and they didn’t listen. This is not our problem and we have nothing to gain. Time to tell the Saudi’s that their on their own. Americans won’t fight their wars.
4
Iran has an accurate view of Trump's behavior: "incomprehensible and meaningless" covers most everything he's done since January 2017. Now he seeks guidance from Saudi Arabia, secure in his misguided idea that they like him and are his friends.
If he had such problems with the nuclear agreement that Obama had signed, why not revise it to be more compatible with his policies? One obvious reason is that Trump and his administration don't have policies. They have likes and dislikes and various personal agendas, but no consistent, thoughtful, and credible approach to anything.
The plan of "undo everything Obama did" does not seem to be working very well, other than to give Trump the illusion that he is winning over his nemesis. He has no interest in diplomacy, preferring bluster and bullying, and we have certainly seen he is not the great deal maker he claims to be. To be effective in international affairs, you have to have meaningful objectives, a long-term strategy, and competent people to carry out a plan. Trump doesn't think he needs any of these things, and carries on as if his whims and impulses are all he needs. Just recently he was bellowing about the need to blockade Venezuela. That idea then disappeared as suddenly as did the love affair with Kim Jong Un. Like most bullies, once he has failed to intimidate his opponent, he has no idea what else to do.
2
Is this the time he will take us to war for their oil ? Will the draft dodger in chief need to show his audience that he means to be tough and honest ? It will be great for ratings . There will be plenty of extras . And it always works in elections . His audience will be proud to follow him into the next season .And the Saudis will pay for it . Honest America , please turn off the TV and wake up .
2
One reason that Iran or maybe one of its proxies sought such a provocation at this time is because it could. Apparently, for all of its military equipment and sizable army, SA left the door open at one of its most significant oil faciliies. You can't tell me that SA doesn't have a missile defense system. So what's this attack about?
3
For all I know, this is just what Putin wants. The US to engage in an unpopular war on behalf of a hideous Middle East nation, just to drive oil prices up. A little more oil cash in Russia might settle down those starting to get fed up with Putin at home. I'm sure Putin is thrilled with the mileage he gets riding Trump.
3
For what? When it comes to anything a Trump does, simply follow the money.
2
"The time has come for Mr. Trump to consult with Congress, with major industrial nations that depend on Middle Eastern oil and with military and intelligence analysts outside his immediate circle."
C'mon, we all know none of that is going to happen.
2
Am I the only person who is highly doubtful of this administration and anything that they might say is actually “true”. They are known for constant lying: to us, to the press, to allies. How do they know by aerial photos that the drones look like they’re Iranian? I doubt that they could tell an Amazon drone from anything else.
I am so skeptical now of everything. I was never a conspiracy theorist until DJT; when you have to wade through a haystack of lies to find the needle of truth, I guess it makes you think that way. Initially I thought maybe DJT’s friend Bibi was faking this to get Iran in trouble, and help him get re-elected. Now I’m wondering if that psychopath MBS might not have done this to ramp up tensions with Iran, because, Iran. Maybe it’s just Donnie John trying to get himself re-elected.
3
Our ignorant juvenile president is used to shooting off his big mouth from the hip even as a private citizen. Feeble attempts to look and sound tough. His White House aides then have to immediately clean up and walk back his premature texts and comments. It’s all plain and simple to see and witness, our President Donald J. Trump just isn’t an honorable man and his hollow empty words and promises mean absolutely nothing whatsoever and all the leaders of the world know it, especially our enemy Iran. The president may get his wish to start a war in order to at least in his mind, help his re-election bid, at the cost of our military personal and innocent civilians. This situation could have been avoided as this dysfunctional administration was warned not to pull the United States out of the Iran Nuclear Deal.
God help us all. Our worst fears and nightmares concerning this most inept president are about to surface. I pray I am wrong🙏🏼
1
Last time it was "cocked and loaded". Maybe someone informed the buffoon in the Oval Office what the right expression is. Well, good for him. That profoundly insecure ego must have gotten a little buzz saying "locked and loaded". Therefore, mission accomplished. No, really, mission accomplished: the sociopathic toddler with the sharpie marker has gotten his little fix....until next time, which is due already. For that he'll play Mr Tough Guy 100 times tomorrow, with his favorite Mussolini pose. God, what a not just utterly stupid but sick time we live in.
3
America has no credibility left. Do you guys really think any one believes Trump? Seriously? Choose between a bunch of old religious men and another bunch of old religious men. What have you fallen to?
2
Trump won't be consulting with anyone who is skilled or has experience in international relations. He hasn't consulted with anyone before (except despots) and, given his narcissistic personality, is not about to start doing so. He trusts his gut and his brain. Pity the world.
1
“.... a sharp provocation against the United States”. Really? Does it always have to be about you?
2
Trump won't call for an attack because he's really a coward. It takes leadership to be able to accept consequences-whatever they may be; Trump wants an easy win- thus the Locked & Loaded roll-off-the-tongue idiocy and the White House's prompt absurd "explainer".
But as Macbeth might have mused:
"[Locked & Loaded] is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.”
3
Why should we go to war to defend a repressive, medieval kingdom that kills journalists, oppresses women and gave us the terrorists that attacked us on 9/11? I could care less what happens to Saudi Arabia!
5
It is shameful for NYT to write, in the last paragraph, that Iran has apparently raised the ante. You present no evidence for this, thus your accusation is a falsehood. Iran has no reason to be reckless, and is in fact showing great patience and resolve in the face of open hostility and harassment. NYT is either pandering to those who have been itching for a conflict, or it was a day of poor editorial judgement. Either way an embarrassment for NYT.
1
@Point of View I disagree. Iran does have a reason to up the ante. If they can put economic pressure on the US by messing with the oil supply (and I hope they can't), it leads to even the base feeling the pain of trump's policies.
1
To all loyal patriotic Americans serving in the military and who DON’T agree with the national policies of this administration, go AWOL now.
Your family can visit you in jail, better than a grave.
3
Hmmm....let's see
Build the wall...Mexico will pay for it
How about throwing paper towels after a natural disaster
Of course there's a thumbs up photo with an infant survivor of a mass killing
Windmills cause cancer
Tim Apple
Was it Dayton or Toledo?
Anyone have a Sharpie?
And this guy is our President?
4
Saudi Arabia has the third largest military expenditures in the world, behind the USA and China.
This limited attack was on SA infrastructure causing no casualties. The US has an obligation to reduce tensions not side with a repressive Saudi regime that brought us 9/11
5
With this corrupt Fake President, you have to consider how he, and probably Kushner, would financially benefit personally were he to commit American military forces to a bloody confrontation with Iran. What’s in it for him from a grateful bin Salman?
12
By definition we are always “ locked and loaded “. Trump is the ultimate chicken hawk.
What could possibly go wrong?...
3
Gosh, all of this winning, winning, winning can make one's head spin. Liz Cheney was on Meet The Press yesterday insisting that withdrawal from the Iranian Nuclear Treaty & the reimposition of sanctions evidenced STRONG LEADERSHIP. We are going to keep shooting ourselves in the foot until those Persian's cry 'uncle!'
11
Trump is "locked" into incompetence and "loaded" with ignorance . The insidiously stupid decision to withdraw from the JCPOA is the origin of the current crisis. Iran was in total compliance with the JCPOA. Trump allowed his vacuous campaign rhetoric and subquent manipulation by Bibi Netanyahu, to supersede the empirical evidence that the JCPOA was working, and most importantly, in the American national interest. The attack on the Saudi oil infrastructure, and any subsequent crisis' are the opportunity cost of having the presidency occupied by the dispositive policy ignorance and gross incompetence of Donald Trump.
15
The only thing that's locked and loaded is Donald Trump's big mouth. Here he is facing the first real crisis of his administration and he has absolutely no idea what to do. He has to ask the Saudis to tell him. He's like the bank robber who puts a gun to his own head and says: "Stop or I'll shoot!"
8
"The time has come for Mr. Trump to consult with Congress, with major industrial nations that depend on Middle Eastern oil and with military and intelligence analysts outside his immediate circle." which is a long way of saying "Turn off FOX News and do your job, you deadbeat." If we lose one soldier due to Trump's ego, stupidity or mental health, that loss will fall squarely on those who get a kick out of this administration, who think this rodeo is entertaining and those who have lost the ability to feel the hurt of others.
7
I’m always contemptuous when I hear some non veteran use that phrase. To me, it suggests that the guy is another “wannabe”...one of those who opted out because of bone spurs, or because he had other priorities ( see Dick Cheney), or because he’s a coward.
In our Nation’s history, we’ve had some president’s who were heroes, but in my lifetime, Donald J. Trump is the most craven coward I’ve yet seen in a US President.
9
Avoiding war - because American soldiers coming back in body bags doesn't make for good reality TV.
6
I guess Trump has decide oil should kill us sooner than later?
Why wait for climate change when our addiction to oil can kill people now.
7
The "president" seems to be confusing a proper reaction by a world leader to a potential act of international terrorism with getting ready for a prom date.
2
Isn’t it comforting to know we have a loose cannon for a president?
8
A few observations...
After the bum is out of office, the floodgates will burst wide open with stories of just how incompetent and psychologically damaged this traitor is.
In a recent article in WAPO by Eugene Robinson, he states the following:
"In truth, the Trump Organization was a mom-and-pop family business that he repeatedly micromanaged to the brink of collapse. He is doing exactly the same with the government of the United States. The White House itself is less like “The West Wing” than “Game of Thrones.” Courtiers vie for the favor of the Mad King, unable or unwilling to perform normal duties for fear of risking Trump’s ire."
Having worked for someone who the above would describe to a tee, I can tell you first hand that it is a slow burn. Chaos starts to creep in. This is followed by some sort of crisis that is blamed on those being managed and the blame is of course reflected by management towards those below them. Morale is taking a nosedive, soon to be followed by layoffs and eventually a mass exodus. By this time, the department or company is in total disarray and it takes a complete overhaul to get it back on track if that is even possible.
I am 100% sure that this is exactly what is going on inside this administration. The history books will certainly not have kinds words for the idiot and his team of misfit toys. Unfortunately, there are no patriots left to bring a call to arms so the traitor can be knocked off his throne.
10
"Locked and loaded"? The only thing "locked" is Trump's brain and the only thing "loaded' are Trump's empty threats against Iran, which are loaded with you-know-what.
5
From the article: "The upshot is that Iran has now apparently raised the ante, challenging the White House with a brazen attack on an ally and one of the world’s most important oil producers."
So, the NYTimes has ALSO concluded without evidence, that Iran is responsible for the attack???
If you enjoyed "The Gulf Wars" don't miss the sequel, coming soon to a theater far from you.
1
Lock Trump up, then I'll get loaded.
10
Not one more drop of American blood should be shed in the Middle East. They do not share our values. Not even Israel. Let them sort things out for themselves. I am done with them.
7
Locked & Loaded for what?
So Trump can make a case for his manhood which clearly everybody knows he doesn’t have.
6
This seems like an excellent opportunity to join our Saudi "friends" and diversify to reduce dependance on the oil economy and, in our case, back away from the Middle East quagmire. Unfortunately, Trump is too unread and clumsy to have any more strategic vision than huffing about "locked and loaded".
PLEASE "Make America Great Again", and just resign, Mr. Trump.
9
If it was the doing of the Houthis, then Saudi Arabia deserved it and it was a long time coming. It is a minor payback for the Saudi war on Yemen that has killed hundreds of thousands and displaced millions. I applaud the Houthis for striking back and I wish the media also took a similar stance.
3
The fact that there is even debate on the origins of this attack just screams "yellowcake in Iraq". Yemen and Iran are literally in opposite directions. A ballistics expert should be able to determine within seconds of arriving where any missiles came from (despite Russian efforts, direction changing missiles are not a thing yet). As for drones, I find it hard to believe that there is no concrete radar evidence of their origin, given the military presence in the area. If the Administration had clear cut evidence that Iran was behind the attack, it would be plastered everywhere. The fact that we get a few grainy satellite pictures shows they either don't know, or have already drawn their conclusions. We should never go to war based on assumptions. The fact that it was an "ally" in the midst of a complex conflict makes this point even more critical. Why do we refuse to learn from the past?
4
Trump is being played for a fool by both the Iranians and the Saudi's. The end of Amateur Hour, at the White House, can't come fast enough. We need to put the adults back in charge before we are egged into another senseless war...
5
"Locked and loaded" for some sabre rattling and a fusillade of brainless Tweets, all to keep his 'ratings' on a meteoric rise.
All to be pushed back hours later or the following day. Cry your beloved country.
1
Why do you assume it was Iran that conducted the attack? Do you have any evidence that has not been shown elsewhere? IF so, please report. Don't buy into the line as you did with Bush 2's Iraq War. I remember how you guys cheerleaded that.
3
This is nothing but a first reaction of a coward holding a gun against a scenario which he doesn't comprehend.
Trump himself is weak and so he makes such statements. But the GOP leaders / voters, made him a POTUS ; which makes America looks weak when the coward makes such statements.
2
Mind locked shut. Mouth loaded with self-serving baloney.
That's our president speaking. And the world is listening, stunned with shock and awe.
6
How very sensible, typical of what the NYT has endorsed in the past: raising the issue with phoney “allies” and world geopolitical economic outcomes but not mentioning the consequences of past mistakes made in the “national interest”. It’s time to end the charade. Europeans are not guiltless as they condemn the attacks that will undermine their industries that rely on MidEast oil.
1
The Iranians are responsible for the bombing of the Marine barracks therefore they should feel some pain Let the Marines get some payback
1
Mr. Trump has been “locked and loaded” during crises before, but always end up shooting blanks..
3
The best strategy for this bumbling fool, resign. Make a deal with the democratic leadership, no prosecution for his myriad of crimes, and we can let him and his entire clan emigrate to Russia.
2
I seem to detect a change in Trump's aggressiveness but I'm guessing ... no bombs [sold them all to the Saudis], aborted air attack on Iran [Putin called], "locked and loaded" and waiting [for orders from the Saudis]. trump is not a leader but a follower.
3
I’m cheering for Iran on this one. If Australia does its usual sycophantic bowing to the USA we will be in the streets.
No more war. How about getting off our addiction to oil so we don’t have to???
5
One of the many reasons I did not run for President is my ignorance about the Middle East. Who is allied with who often escapes me. Trump doesn't understand any of it either, but I think he ran for President just so he could say "locked and loaded" every time he brings us to the brink of war. Obviously the expression puffs up his manhood. God bless/help America!
1
Times Editorial Board: ALERT! "There was some speculation that" Houthis in Yemen "may be trying to" retaliate against Saudi Arabia for invading and destroying their country. How about it? Is it plausible?
2
"It remained unclear for the moment why Iran or one of its proxies had apparently sought so great an escalation of regional tensions at this time."
.Why? When you renege on major agreements with your neighbor, put a sledge hammer to his head, take his wallet, pluck out his eyes, cut off his hands and feet, throw him in a ditch, pour gasaline on him, light him on fire, and do the same with his family, friends and neighbors, "escalation" is not exactly the word to describe what might be an expected response from someone with nothing to lose, I would think.
2
I believe when you are waiting for the Saudis to tell you what to do and you get all dressed up for the party, the costume you have agreed to put on is.... the world's policeman.
2
Who says that? Not even cowboys say "locked and loaded" anymore. Why would a draft dodger use such an odd term? I guess it's because he's a crackpot who wants to prove he's tough. When all he is is a pretentious wannbe tough guy. I'm embarrassed by him. He is ruining this country with his lack of intelligence.
5
‘Locked and Loaded,’ but for What?
Trump has limited options, so expect him to do nothing until circumstances force his hand. Anded to the limited options is the fact that he has no one of any competence left to advise him.
Not that he ever listens anyway. The situation gets more and more grim. Reality was bound to catch up with the no nothing president.
3
For all the tough talk and bluster, Trump is proving to be a wishy washy milquetoast wet noodle of a President. He was ready to strike Iran not long ago after they downed an American drone but then caved in and did nothing. He had another round of tariffs ready to hit China then put them off and delayed them. He now claims the USA is "locked and loaded" and ready to take on Iran. History has shown he does not back up such big words. Iran has no reason to take him seriously. Just as they have no reason to negotiate a new deal with the USA. Why should they given America has a leader that changes his mind every 5 minutes and cannot be trusted?
4
@Patrick It is so painfully obvious that Trump is way out of his depth. "Leading" the US is nothing like making real estate deals in New York, apparently.
2
Not one American life should be lost in support or defense of Saudi Arabia. Not one.
11
My new bumper sticker "Locked, Loaded and Lame." with a picture of our childish President to accompany those words.
4
In the opening paragraph of this editorial the NYT suggested three possible perpetrators of the brazen attack on the oil fields in Saudi Arabia. Only one of which was Iran.At the conclusion of editorial only Iran is said to be the culprit. This seems to be a major change with no rationale. Am l missing something?
1
"Locked and loaded for the next tweet and the next campaign rally, baby." Any further in the future isn't worth worrying about for our dog-like president who lives only in the present.
2
In its "upshot," the Times, as usual repeats lies to justify US aggression and war. There is no real evidence that Iran is responsible or this action or any reason why it would be. Yemen, on the other hand, has every reason to strike back at the Saudis who, with US assistance continue to murder them. Though Yemen may be justified, the ecological impact of this, as with war in the region, is a larger crime. We need cooler heads to prevail. Sadly, they are missing. Instead we have an imbecilic know-nothing who have to make phone calls to cartels to ask what they ought to do.
4
Few options
Fewer allies
And there is no reason to believe a word Trump says.
So there is no reason to believe Iran damaged the oilfields.
Lack of credibility may kill us all when Trumps repeats he “election” win via bribing the worthless electors...
2
I am afraid we will find out what a weak and not very smart person as POTUS will do when truly challenged.
2
Trump, consult with Congress? That’s rich.
4
The President has painted himself into a corner once again (...and us with him...)
3
Let Saudi Arabia and Israel fight their own fighting. It feels suspiciously like the days leading upto Iraq War 2. Lets not forget WMD scare and Colin Powell's presentation at UN so fast.
4
Trump is not going to consult all of the players the NY Times suggested. He hates advice. He hates smart people. He despises those who would stand up and speak truth to power. So what's left? He should consult his hysterical and bloodthirsty base, they'll tell him what to do. The rest of us will just have to gasp and duck for cover.
3
You think no footprints were left behind? You haven't read enough Mitch Rapp stories.
1
"Iran has now apparently raised the ante"
"apparently" has become the media word of the year anytime there is a shortage of facts. (almost always)
What is is the proof that Iran did this?
1. the Houthi's could not?
2. ....
Occam's razor is NOT a principle of logic. It only reflects that simple minds like simple explanations. This is not to reject the simple explanation, but it isn't necessarily so. And who proposes to act upon this premise?
The NY Times' plaudits for the intelligence apparatus in the United States actually makes me laugh. Over its long history it has been wrong more than right.
Trumps instincts are correct. The extension of empire, most especially in the Middle East causes more problems than it solves. With U.S. energy independence there is no reason whatsoever to be there. Not our problem.
1
Congress, do your job. It is you that has the power to declare war. This is not a threat to the USA but a threat to big oil. Stop this madness, my children are not here to fight for Saudi Arabia.
1
Rewind and reference your own “Daily” podcast regarding the Iran Deal. Obama negotiated the heck out of it bringing in the international community while behind the scenes conducting bunker bombing simulations that proved to Netanyahu that the US could destroy Iran’s nuclear capability if they wouldn’t comply. Obama made a great deal. The kind real leaders make. Enter The Malignant Narcissist in the Oval who sees everything through the lens of burnishing his own image and lining his own pockets. Add Netanyahu who also hated Obama from day one, another one with an ego so profound that he would stand before our congress and spit in Obama’s face. Pompeo is despite his military training, another Fundamentalist Christian waiting for the rapture looking for the big Holy War. There is no sensible Middle East foreign policy being directed from this country when big egos and theology are also informing any decision in that hornets nest. MBS is stirring the pot and it blew up in his face. He’s got money and tons of US weapons. He can manage the situation just fine. Let’s see if he is the friend this administration claims he is. Just remember, they let him get away with murder.
2
We’ve been selling billions of dollars worth of weapons to the Saudis, which they’ve been using to attack essentially defenseless Yemenis. Now that they’ve been able to respond and give the Saudis a bloody nose, the Editorial Board seems to be suggesting that we go to war against Iran!? This logic makes sense if you’re a Netanyahu fan, but not for the rest of us.
3
It is no surprise that a man who resides entirely in his own brain is an isolationist, which isn't terribly helpful when he needs help from others.
1
I believe there are factions inside and outside the US who are trying HARD to push Trump and the US in a war in Iran. Have you noticed that each Trump wants to leave a war zone (Iraq, Syria Afghanistan there is manufactured incident to press the US to keep the perpetual war?
2
I disagree strongly with the conclusion that this attack is directed against the US. It has nothing to do with Trump or the US. This is part of the war Saudi Arabia brought onto Yemen. Everything is not about Trump.
8
Clearly, Iran has misjudged the full impact and ramifications of their attack on Saudi Arabia's oil refinery. It has played right into Pres. Trump's hands in his efforts to expose just how bad of a deal the JCPOA was for the Europeans even if the deal had been carried through to the very end.
1
Clearly the Trump is floundering with his only remaining buddies Mr Bone Saw and criminal Bibi. No other country would trust the wingnut and why should they? He is a reneger in chief. Iran called the US bluff and Trump has no options other than starting another war, sure to be a boondoggle far worse than the Iraqi mistake.
2
@batazoid
It only became a "bad deal" when the Trump administration stopped honoring it. The President's bumbling has given no reason for Iran to continue honoring the deal. This is Trump's own mess. Sadly it will be young Americans who might pay the price for his incompetence with their lives.
1
@batazoid How do we know Trump is not lying about the drone attack? He lies about everything else. How can we be sure this is not his Tonkin Gulf incident? Bush fooled much of the US about Iraq. Will Trump do the same in regard to Iran?
1
This is our chance to reshape the global energy markets. Our reliance on foreign oil is a national security risk, plain and simple, and this attack is showing the public the harsh reality of that relationship in a way that we haven't seen since Desert Storm.
Why do we continue to rely so heavily on the literally and figuratively volatile liquid known as oil? Seize the moment. Use this attack as the leverage to begin our move away from fossil fuels to far more national security friendly renewable power sources. We cannot rely on oil in perpetuity: it's going to run out, as will our welcome in the Middle East.
15
@htg Ssadly, no one listened in the early 170s when Jimmy Carter said that seeking energy independence was the moral equivalent of war, and a key national security objective. Not what the oil companies wanted to hear.
6
Yeah the people of Yemen knows very well that the USA is locked and loaded... thousands and thousands of civilians murdered by American weapons in the hands of the Saudis... Well played
13
Half-cocked and loaded more like it. Trump's nonstop lies are finally catching up with him; no one believes anything he says any more, not our allies nor our enemies nor any neutral foreign government. He is a blathering nonentity on the world stage, a reality show buffoon derided and distrusted by all. Putin, Xi, Kim, Netanyahu and MBS use him for their own ends even as they laugh at him. And the Iranians know they will have the Saudis for lunch if MBS dares to retaliate, which he won't without American help.
17
Here's a convenient, though inexpert, guide to what's happening with Donald Trump and Iran.
Trump only sent out that first tweet to show he really knows that the expression is "locked and loaded", not "cocked and loaded". Avoidance of a calamitous misunderstanding must take second place to affairs of the ego.
Trump doesn't want a war with anybody, anywhere. It's too hard to fake. His aversion to things with immediate consequences that can't be talked away is his crowning virtue. We should applaud it.
Trump does want to be known as a man who is willing to bring on the direst state of affairs, always with the understanding that he won't need to do so. As he himself has publicly annotated his reckless behavior, "That's how I negotiate."
Trump denies being the puppet of Russia, but he casually announces that he awaits marching orders from Saudi Arabia. Openness is the saving grace, here.
A caveat: Though Trump doesn't like wars (seriously, they give him bone spurs), he is a beleaguered president; and beleaguered presidents have been known to play the war card. That's what we get for letting the words "Support our troops" come to mean, "Quiet down and stand behind our president."
12
@Longestaffe Recalling Nixon's "Mad man" approach to make North Vietnam fear he would nuke them, it seems a shame that Trump knows no history (and doesn't listen to anyone who does). Nixon managed to expand and extend the war for 7 years, to arrive at basically the same conclusion he could have had years earlier.
1
We have been here before and this time, maybe, we should learn from our past mistakes.
Not one single American life should be placed in harm's way to defend or protect this country. Not our oil fields and WE were not attacked.
Real patriots are never going to forget how many Saudi's engineered 9/11.....
Defend your own turf..This American expects our leaders to walk away from this mess...Their problem-not ours.
Trump blistered his way into this mess by his own hatred of a good deal with Iran made by Obama and NATO partners.. American lives are not going to be sacrificed for this error.
We are done with WMD's, wars for oil, and the drum beat of defense contractors whose profit statements need to get pumped up.
Our military is not there to bail the Saudi's out of their own security issues. NEVER. Find one of Bin laden's caves to hide in.
There is a deep fury that this is even being considered as an option for our troops to handle.
13
While we dither about whether Iran is responsible, one thing is clear: we suspect Iran only because they are unhappy with Trump for pulling out of the nuclear deal. So yeah, more winning. Thanks Trump.
13
What proof do we have that Iran had anything to do with this attack? Weapons stamped "made in Iran". What about all of the Weapons stamped with "made in America".? Does that mean we attacked all of the countries that have their weapons marked by America manufacturers?
#1 . Trump pulled us out of the Iran deal. Why should Iran trust us. In fact why would any Country trust us?
#2. Germany and England have there own reasons for speaking up. Their Oil Supplies may be affected. They are speaking up for their own interests, not ours.
#3. Have we forgotten that 15 Saudi men attacked the World Trade Center, not anyone from the Houthi rebels in Yemen
#4. It has been the Saudi's slaughter of Yemen that has provoked this attack, not the Iranians.
#5. the Saudis are not our friends. they are using Trump and anyone else they can.
#6. The Saudi's murder their dissidents. And Trump defends them.
#7. Trump is up to 12,000 lies, why would we ever believe him?
#8. I would not put it past John Bolton, et al to have come up with this particular strategy to pull us into war with Iran. This whole attack smells of Dick Cheney, Rumsfeld, et al regarding how they got us into the Iraq War.
When is Congress going to do their job and prevent us from another fake war in order to keep the economy rolling so that Trump can get elected.
28
@Jean
This definitely smells like the "Weapons of Massive Destruction " excuse for Iraq war.
4
@Jean Excellent points !
2
The Iranians are exploiting an obvious weakness in American leadership. The bumbling executive branch and the do nothing legislative enablers.
14
An obvious counter to Trump’s strategy of maximum pressure is maximum pressure in return. Since he appears to have given little thought to negative outcomes of his strategy, no doubt believing his bulling is enough to secure an opponents’ capitulation, he - and therefore we - are ill prepared for the negative ramifications.
7
Locked and loaded, indeed. The only thing that's locked and loaded and Trump's Depends.
12
The only thing in our favor is that Trump is a classic chicken hawk. It seems the rest of the world has figured this out and are anxious to expand or consolidate their ambitions before Trumps term expires. They possess enough residual respect for Americans that they reckon we’ll toss Trump out next year. We can only hope they’re not overestimating us.
15
One war hawk (Bolton) is gone. It's time for Trump to dump the other (Pompeo) and hire professional statesmen for national security adviser and secretary of state.
10
@Frank If only Trump understood what real expertise is, how to recognize it, and how to work with those who offer it. Early in his reign Trump said "I am the only one in government who matters." Sadly, he really meant it. Later on he said "I know more than the generals."
2
@Frank
Trump has had almost two years to hire and keep people who have a experienced and professional knowledge in foreign matters which Trump entirely lacks. He hasn't done it yet because he refuses to hire anyone who will tell him he's mistaken about most things in general. But always keep in mind that his base at those rallies consider Trump's lies and ignorance as the two main qualities for a president.
1
What is the Saudi position on retaliation? Wasn't it their facility, on their soil that was attacked? Why are we leading the charge here?
10
"but that he was waiting to hear from Saudi Arabia on how to proceed."....
"That Mr. Trump would condition his response on the druthers of the Saudi crown prince, Mohammed bin Salman,"
Has the NYT editorial board forgotten that the attack was on sovereign Saudi Arabia?
If Mr. Trump or any president would act without collaboration then I am sure that the editorial the next day would be along the lines of why is he (they) ignoring the views of those who were actually attacked.
If the Houthis launched the drones, which is questionable, then the target in all aspects was Saudi Arabia and not the US. If Iran or its Shiite lackeys in Iraq launched the drones, and there are enough reasons for them to have done so, then the message was also to the US.
But a unilateral response of the US? Is that what the NYT wants?
1
And so are you recommending that Trump take his military/national security advice from the head of a country that sent 15 of its citizens to destroy American sites on 9/11? Isn’t that like “Bibi” taking security advice from the PLO?
2
@Joshua Schwartz
The sensible interpretation is that this is not our fight (it's not) and therefore we shouldn't be waiting to hear from anyone on a response because there should not be one from the US. That you choose not to see the clear meaning of the statements is your own fault.
1
@Joshua Schwartz
Red Herring. Trump admitted that MBS calls the shots. No sane president would have said as much so blatantly. You can consider the Saudi’s sovereignty without making the intervention based on MBS literally making the call.
1
We elected someone with no apparent intellectual curiosity and no apparent ability to look at interests beyond his own--shaped by a worldview formed 30 or 40 years ago. No wonder he is being played, and thus so in the US, by malevolent actors such as North Korea and Iran--not to mention our so-called allies like Saudi Arabia and Israel. Even sadder, his supporters in the Senate like Graham know better yet sing his praises.
14
Iran is too smart to have done this. They may have made the drones but so what? We make and export more arms to nefarious places than any other country by a factor of 10. Are we to blame when they are used? (maybe we should be.)
Provocation and manipulation of our lizard brained president is easy. We will eventually find out who did this. Whether dopey Trump believes his own intelligence is uncertain.
16
@John MD Trump started out in 2017 with hostility toward the CIA, FBI, and NSA. He has a problem working with people who seem like they know more about a subject that he does. Which must happen to him quite often.
1
This is Saudi Arabia's war, they and Iran are ideological foes. Wee have no business doing their fighting for them. Pompeo wants war, Netanyahu wants to bomb Iran, let their young people die there, we do not need any more American casualties in that part of the world.
Don the swindler wants something to make him look tough, send him there, one American we would not miss. Do not forget it was Saudis that attacked the World Trade Center, no Iranians. It was the U.S. that brought about the overthrow a a democratic government in Iran to benefit some American oil companies.
Let the GOP send its young men, it would be good to thin out their ranks, they are not worth much these days anyway, GOP lives don't count.
6
@David Underwood No war unless Don Jr, Eric, and Jared go to the front. Much of the US bought the Bush -Cheney lies about Iraq, and a disasterous war followed. No need to repeat that mistake with Iran.
2
We catch Iran putting a limpet mine on a tanker on video. The U.S. press doubts the footage and says it is Trump's fault. Now they bomb a sovereign nation, and the press again doubts the intel and says it is Trump's fault. Obama gave Iran the money to attack our allies. When does he get the blame for coddling the region's number one exporter of terrorism?
@TL Some of us find it hard to believe anything Trump says, after his 11,000 previous lies.
1
"Locked and loaded"--tough talk from a guy who used phony medical excuses to avoid serving his country.
11
I wonder if Trump will be a good little president and retaliate if told do do so by Saudi Arabia?
Did the Saudi’s join NATO when we were all sleeping? Why the heck should we go to war for them. I guess they are too rich to fight their own wars. They can just pay Trump to send our sons to Iran to fight and die.
The whole Trump re-election economic boom fizzled. Now it looks like he is going to GOP plan B start a middle Eastern war. It worked the reelect our famous war time president George W Bush.
Putin is winning!
15
The reason Trump was "silent" during the weekend, is, for the first time in this dim-witted presidency, he really has no words for what to do. He has not undergone any purposeful process for learning the military or diplomatic options he has, knows nothing about the region, I mean nothing, has no advisors left who knows anything about the region. So, what is left, you got it --- he waits for a Saudi murderer to give him direction---at this point, he will take any direction. Now, of course, back to the original problem, even if MBS provided a military option, Trump would still have to connect the strategy/logistical dots, but who would do that...Ivanka, Jared, oh, there is magic Mike left--he did graduate first in his class from West Point--so maybe he could craft together so kind of intervention. Imagine yourself, as a commander in the Gulf of an aircraft carrier, with full complement of Marines, knowing that back in DC, you have Magic Mike and The Donald at the controls.
7
Still feel safer now than when Obama was President?
Russia.
North Korea.
Japan and South Korea feuding.
Now Iran.
Not to mention the number of mass shootings by white supremacists.
I'm afraid to turn on the TV, much less send my child to school.
12
@Morals Matter, Trump's cult members feel safer, he's building a wall. Maybe the Saudis need a wall.
1
The Saudis, to their immense astonishment, are discovering that people living in glasshouses shouldn't throw stones. Good for them, and the Trump Administration.
2
Iran is like Japan in the 1930s: they have some legitimate grievances but very little judgment. Sooner or later, it will come to a head.
2
What our government keeps forgetting is that Iran is a master of asymmetrical war.
Your last paragraph is screwy. He's the American president, consulting with oil dependent industrial countries? No, America can stand alone in deciding any limited military action. No more endless wars for others.
Don't be baited Mr President. This is no Pearl Harbor...
1
"The time has come for Mr. Trump to consult with Congress, with major industrial nations that depend on Middle Eastern oil and with military and intelligence analysts outside his immediate circle."
No, the time has come for inside people like James Mattis and others inside the halls of national intelligence, to begin making a plan to remove the "amoral incompetent" now occupying the oval office.
Today, Trump was shown on a media camera, saying that the "U.S. military is the most powerful military in ....” (THEN, he lost his way) intending to say something like " . . . in the world" -- but, he hesitated, realizing he could not say anything intelligent , then awkwardly, stupidly mumbled . . . "in any history."
So, in summary, he said: ". . .the U.S. military is the most powerful military (pause) . . . in any history."
It's time to remove this dysfunctional incompetent.
We know it. The insiders know it.
An honest group of reliable and informed insiders need to step up, before it's too late.
5
The problem is that Mr. Trump is playing high-stakes poker with a losing hand. If we send ground troops to Iran, we will ultimately lose -- not because the United States is incapable of beating Iran, but because the political will to do what it would take to win does not exist. Mr. Trump knows this. So does Iran.
In the meantime, Mr. Trump has alienated almost all of America's traditional allies and destroyed his own credibility with a daily spew of unbelievably stupid lies. If he takes the country to war, he knows that more than half the country will be against him from day one. Few will believe a word he says.
He is truly between a rock and hard place. He has only himself to blame. And he has taken us with hm down a losing path.
3
Trump sees nothing wrong in giving his strong support to the "ally" from whose country almost all of the 9/11 attackers came from, who dismembered, tortured and killed a journalist in an Embassy and who befriended his son-in-law Kushner. The US is the world's largest exporter of oil now. Why go to bat for the Saudi's, unless it's to add to the US oil barons' bank accounts?
4
"the drone attacks on Saudi oil facilities early Saturday amount to a sharp provocation against the United States."
So now an attack on Saudi Arabia is an attack on the United States? Really?
Then what are we waiting for? Hi-ho, hi-ho, it's off to war we should go.
3
"Locked and loaded," as declared by a four-year old engaged in a
fantasy world of John Wayne, Charlton Heston and Fox News
where war is interrupted only by commercial breaks and never ends.
Vote.
7
"Trump was silent for most of the weekend." What a relief.
4
Why does the NYTimes take anything Trump says seriously? My stars, the Editorial Board writes as if Trump's mouthings meant something. A proper, real world report would be, like, "Trump says 'x'. He will say something else later. " End of story.
3
America's Pinocchio president is also the Boy Who Cried Wolf. How this is not self-evident to some people in America is the stunning mystery of the age. Being, also, the classic cowardly bully, leaves Trump, and us, with no leverage or allies whatsoever. So much for being a dealmaker; he doesn't even understand the basics of living, let alone the fundamentals of management.
3
America First! America First! America First! C’mon Don, how is a drone attack on a Saudi Oil refinery an attack on America? Do we really need some other country’s oil when we have been cutting our own production to prop up your own oil buddies? Let’s ramp up production pronto and show the world how little we need them to grow our economy! Get gas to under 2 bucks again and you might even get a third term! Show em who is boss by doing absolutely nothing, business as usual. If Saudi decides to use some of those jets we sold them - you once bragged about how much they buy - well, some will get shot down and they will need to buy more - good for US! America First!
"The time has come for Mr. Trump to consult with Congress, with major industrial nations that depend on Middle Eastern oil and with military and intelligence analysts outside his immediate circle."
No, the time has come for inside people like James Mattis and others inside the halls of national intelligence, to begin making a plan to remove the "amoral incompetent" now occupying the oval office.
Today, Trump was shown on a media camera, saying that the "U.S. military is the most powerful military in .... (THEN, he lost his way) intending to say something like " . . . in the world" -- but he hesitated, realizing he could not say anything intelligent , then awkwardly, stupidly mumbled . . . "in any history."
So, in summary, he said: ". . .the U.S. military is the most powerful military (pause) . . . in any history."
It's time to remove this dysfunctional incompetent.
We know it. The insiders know it.
An honest group of reliable and informed insiders need to step up, before it's too late.
2
Yup...well, he we are, but at least he has his wall!
1
Does the Editorial Board honestly believe that Trump is interested attempting to resolve the Saudi/Yemini dispute? Or doing anything that would demonstrate productive foreign or military policy that would strengthen our country? Seriously? Three years on, in this train wreck of an administration?
So why does this Editorial Board continue to treat Trump as if he were a sane, intelligent, decent man? He is none of these things. What's worse - his voters know this, and they simply do not care. Trump has been able to careen this nation to the very edges of disaster - more than once - for only one reason: his base.
So let's skip with trying to manufacture some reasoned assessment of Trump's "policy". These kinds of editorials do nothing but enable Trump. Enable his "administration". Enable his rabid base. Because these columns assume, and continue with the fiction that Trump and his base care about any of the foreign policy or military issues facing us in the Middle East.
News flash: They don't. The only things motivating Trump are: his racism, his insane hatred for his predecessor, and his desperation to stay out of prison. So for these past three years, he has done exactly what he's needed to do to keep his base. Keep feeding them his bigoted racist screeds. Keep telling them that all their problems are caused by "those brown people", here or abroad.
By continuing with these fictions, the Editorial Board is enabling a mentally deranged tyrant. It is way past time to stop.
6
If Trump attacks he loses the 2020 election.
2
So now we know Iran was behind the attack. All we need is some evidence.
2
‘Locked and Loaded,’ but for What?.........
Words, nothing but words - that's the Trump method of governing......
This President will say anything and everything as long as he thinks his followers will buy the "sizzle"......But when it come to delivering the "steak" there is none.........
Are we Americans really this desperate to believe anything - it sure looks like some of us are...........
6
How should one retaliate when another country prevents you from selling your oil ?
What Trump says does not bother me. What he does depen ding on what he does could bother me. So far Trump has not started any new war and I hope he keeps it that way. Telling Iran he is bombs are locked and loaded as a deterrent is just fine as long as the bombs are not dropped
1
The only thing locked and loaded is trump's mouth. The guy hasn't a clue what to do, having disbanded our national intelligence agencies. God help us all.
6
Nothing to worry about. Trump need only wait for his foreign policy team at Fox News to tell him how best to handle this crisis.
7
Trump believes whatever Putin says or denies. Trump believes in whatever his good soul buddy Kim Jong-un offers. Trump believes the murderous Saudi crown prince, Mohammed bin Salman, is a fellow victim of 'fake news'. So, yea, clearly let's wait for our good 'allies' the Saudis and MBS to advise him properly on how they wish him to proceed, so then he can unleash "locked and loaded" on Iran. (Might even check with Bebe first: he's up for re-election himself soon too.). Rest easy out there, America, Trump will ensure that this next War results from a truly Trumpian-type deliberative and consultative process, from his gut. We expect no more from our current President.
2
The only group Trump needs to consult with is Congress. Who cares what the Prince thinks!
2
Small problem. Actually, a very large one. Mr "I-alone-can-fix-it" doesn't do consulting with others. As a result, every minute more he's in the White House, the whole world is on edge. Surely, surely, it's high time, at long last, to escort him to a place, where he can consult in complete safety with himself.
3
Yeah, about "working with our allies, Israel and Saudi Arabia."
Am I the only one who remembers that Saudi Arabia funded not one but two wars aimed at destroying Israel? In 1967 and 1972--you can look itup.
That Saudi Arabians funded and compensated the families of suicide bombers who blew themselves up in Israel?
That Saudi Arabia funded the schools that educated the Taliban in Pakistan?
That Saudi religion, and Saudi money, inspired and funded the folks who took over and flew airplanes into buildings in the US on 9-11?
Yeah: Saudi Arabia, our good allies.
3
@Charles Trentelman Fifteen of the nineteen 9/11 hijackers were from which country:
A. Iran
B. Saudi Arabia
Who are our friends over there?
1
I just can’t see Americans going to war on behalf of the Saudis who were responsible for 9/11. They funded extremism, they created the monster, they are the aggressor in Yemen.
3
I cannot imagine a more pointless exercise than counseling trump about statesmanship. It's like trying to patiently explain which is the fish fork to a baboon.
2
If Trump backs off it's because the Saudis can't delay Saudi Aramco's IPO, Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman's strategy to diversify SA's oil economy. To secure long term rule of the Royal Family, SA is planning for when oil reserves go dry in 90 years. Poor Arab tyrannies don't fare as well as filthy rich ones. Some oil analysts think SA is pumping so much it's past peak oil and will taper down as reserves are depleted.
Any military retaliation will put critical Saudi oil infrastructure at risk, which won't excite potential investors in the upcoming IPO.
Trump's prostration before the Young Saudi Prince is more than just humiliating. It's the Master telling his manservant "That will be it for now, Donald."
This makes America great again?
We've seen this before. When Trump meets anyone famous or hangs out with real killers like Putin or Kim, he's a fanboy. He fawns and fusses with air-kisses and some big boy bicep flexing. Remember His Singapore Sling with Kim? "We fell a little in love in there." Little Rocket man??? Who knew nuclear talks could be so romantic?
So now it's the Saudi Boy Prince who Trump is eager to please while striking a pose and flashing gang signs.
Trump cowers in the presence of a live eagle. His red badge of courage is a ketchup stain. He's the chicken part of chicken-hawk. He's not going to war if only because it dooms 4 more years and he's not into meeting coffins at Andrews Air Force Base.
Bone spurs don't do war.
8
This is a practiced tradition of U.S. politicians. We’ve been defending Middle East oil reserves with American blood and treasure since the oil reserves were found. The only thing that’s changed is the rhetoric. Don’t suddenly be surprised. This Country Club tough guy with his tough guy talk needs to go, but he’s just the idiotic perversion of a long held tradition.
1
Once again the US Armed Forces are viewed as hired guns to resolve issues in the Middle East. Perhaps it’s time for the Saudi ‘s to dirty their own hands.
When you don't have a real strategy other than tweeting inane Hollywood style threats, you look to others (like the Saudi's) for guidance which you can then play off. Trump and his pompous Secretary of State are clueless as to what to do now. This is a game we can't win and the Iranians are so much smarter. Trump continues to make a mess of our international reputation and has done nothing productive over the past nearly 3 years. He has alienated our allies and emboldened our enemies.
2
Trump misspoke...he meant he was "mocked and goaded."
6
Another mess from the GOP.
3
Such a useless crisis, fueled by the president's willful emotions. I'm actually surprised that something like this hasn't happened sooner, given the level of chaos since 2017.
Of all Donald Trump's forced errors, the abandonment of allies--and Congress--are the worst. Having spent his entire time in office snubbing or outright insulting Congress, he really can't count on them in his hour of need.
As for Europe--well, the craziness of insulting alliies is obvious.
Why is the US kowtowing to a brutal Saudi crown prince? Why was this president's first state visit to see a Saudi king and his barbaric son, growing so close it seems the US is ready to do battle for kingdom?
Of course, we know why: greed. That said, money can't buy the US friends or sound answers in tough times.
4
The US under Trump is now apparently willing to act as one of the Saudi monarchy's tools (fools?) in its proxy religious war with Tehran.
Then again, there's this: The call of the almighty oil dollar is great... crush Iran, get oil. Side with Saudis, get oil.
2
Consult with Congress?
Moscow Mitch has made it very clear that the Senate Republicans will not vote on anything until Trump tells them which way to vote and Trump doesn't care what the Dems vote for in the House and considers everything they do simply as ways to attack him. So what would be the use?
And it seems that the only foreign leaders he trusts are Boris Johnson, who already has his hands full with Brexit and is detested by Macron and Merkel, and Kim Jong-un, whom Trump might trust but that no persons in their right minds would think has any interest in doing what's best for America.
8
If Trump believes this attack points to Iran, then why not go to his good buddy Putin and ask for help to defuse the situation?
Russia is Iran's patron. Russia supplies technology and weapons to Iran.
Instead what have is Russia now offering to sell weapons to Saudi Arabia, and Trump waiting to see what Saudi Arabia tells him to do!
Trump is being played like a fiddle on Iran.
12
@Martin
Not just Iran but among others, North Korea, Russia, Saudi Arabia. Perhaps an appropriate sobriquet for him could be Don the Stradivarius.
2
Saudi Arabia knows very well that a war with Iran could bring about the destruction of its economy. But more importantly it could lead to civil war with catastrophic consequences (look at Syria and Iraq). There are about 4 millions Shii Muslims (roughly 18% of the population) in Saudi Arabia, who live mainly along the Persian Gulf where most oil is to be found. They are treated as second class citizens and their loyalty is to Iran rather than to Riyadh. In case of war with Iran they could create untold damage to the country and Saudi Arabia has not got enough resources to control them.
116
"Whether conducted by Houthi rebels in Yemen, Shiite rebels in Iraq or by Iran itself"
That leaves out plenty of other options. Some could be nations or rebels we just didn't see coming, since we've plenty of enemies.
It also could be a false flag, and that offers a number of unlikely but not impossible options.
Nobody would have thought 9/11 could happen until it did. Nobody on the Editorial Board imagined there were no WMD in Iraq either, that it was all manipulation and lies. Nobody on the Editorial Board said that about the Gulf of Tonkin Incident either.
The unlikely and ugly surprise should be considered even more so, because this is ALREADY unlikely, already an ugly surprise. Even if Iran did it, it wasn't expected and it didn't unfold in a way anybody would have predicted.
Presuming we can guess before we have information is a arrogant presumption that deserves the sort of humiliation it is likely to get.
4
Saudi Arabia is very vulnerable to not only oil production losses . The fresh water supply pipeline from Jubail to Riyadh is a sitting duck target as is the massive desalination plant in The Industrial City .
An all out war with Iran could turn the lights out in Saudi Arabia over night .
Who wins ? Netanyahu . Who loses ? The USA .
3
Since Trump took office it has been inevitable that we would reach such a point. But that it is strictly about oil, read: money, says it all. Principles? Intelligent policies? Not a chance. And if we don't remove this buffoon neither have we.
8
We have talked for a few years now about Trump's lack of fitness for the office of the president. We laugh about him composing his illogical, misspelled tirades on his golden throne in the early morning. We gotten used to the feelings of revulsion and outrage that follow from his racist and sexist tweets.
But now? The idea that Donald Trump has the power to declare war? It's not just Trump's lack of fitness we need to be worried about. The people who voted for him - who know that they put him in Washington to blow up the norm - how on earth can they actually believe that Donald Trump should make the decision to blow up another country?
8
It’s remarkable that even in an attempt to repudiate Trump for his ill conceived war threats, the Times Editorial Board un-ironically makes the argument that an attack on a Saudi oil production facility is an attack on the United States. It’s a shame the Onion already parodied that take.
6
Saudi Arabia is obviously not a NATO member. Actually, there is NO ratified treaty that would obligate or even authorize the President of the United States to take military action against ANY party striking Saudi Arabia. If Mr. Trump is ignorant of these facts, somebody needs to inform him.
Relevant references might include the U.S. Constitution and the War Powers Resolution of 1973.
John Williford
6
We all remember the boy who cried "wolf" When the wolf really came no one believed him. Donnie 2 scoops has bluffed and blustered so many times that his credibility is now smaller than his hands.
9
Some commenter a couple of months ago remarked that Trump would go for war to pump up nationalism & prop up economy prior to 2020 election; hmmmm.
2
Why would you have to consult with anyone when you consider yourself the smartest guy in the room on all occasions? If we've learned one thing that is it. You're wasting your breath. Even God is not consulted by Trump.
3
Trump blusters this, Trump twitters that, Trump shifts—
Once again it is evident to all (even his ardent supporters though they won't admit it to pollsters) that Trump is utterly incompetent and unfit for the U.S. presidency.
And once again, although Trump may be technically "briefed" and "informed" while he sits in a chair staring, he remains uninformed. To our great risk and peril.
9
So I just paid an extra 60 cents a gallon this morning for gasoline. Multiply that across the country.
3
I just stopped at a gas station in Virginia advertising gas for $2.29 .
Problem was they didn't have any gas but they did had plenty of cold beer and lottery tickets .
Next election (hopefully) the US electorate will hand Trump a taste of his own medicine by saying: You’re fired!
2
Who remembers the saudis coming to support the US after 9/11? Exactly.
8
President Bonespurs is very quick to macho up when it other people's lives on the line.
He gets no respect from the world because he doesn't earn any, just demands.
Who is going to charge into battle with him? Nobody.
4
I was startled when Trump said, "We're locked and loaded," and waiting for instructions from Saudi Arabia on how to proceed.
When he took the oath of office, did Trump swear to protect Saudi Arabia? Is Mohammed bin Salman the commander in chief of the US armed forces?
7
I'm not sure I would go as far as saying the world's oil supplies are in the balance. Even if they were, I'm not sure expensive oil is necessarily a bad thing. We want to prevent climate change. Disrupting Saudi oil production makes clean energy relatively cheaper.
That Mr. Trump would condition his response on the druthers of the Saudi crown prince is indeed troubling though. The United States tells Saudi Arabia what we're going to do, not the other way around. Trump's reliance on the crown prince is a sign of weakness and indecision.
The fact of the matter is Saudi Arabia is only important to the United States geopolitically, not directly. You could turn off Saudi oil supplies tomorrow and the United States economy would barely blink. We might even benefit. Saudi oil just isn't that important.
What is important is keeping European markets flush. That means keeping the spigot on in Saudi Arabia and keeping the Middle East relatively stable. How exactly the US government, the GOP in particular, fell into bed with Saudi Arabia requires a history lesson outside the scope of this comment. Suffices to say, Trump has a personal interest in the country now or at least he thinks he does. Otherwise we wouldn't be having this discussion.
My guess is Trump already plans another "proportional" response. He's just waiting on the crown prince to name a target. Again, a sign of weakness.
3
Iran is clearly testing how far it can push Trump after Bolton is gone.
Trump is all talk, "locked and loaded" "fire and fury", as Iran and North Korea have long figured out.
Trump isn't leaving it up to the druthers of a Saudi prince, Trump is looking for an out, he wants to talk tough but say "oh, the Saudis didn't want us to do it" (whatever the Saudis really say).
From Trump, there will be no fire and fury, just sound and fury, and even the fury will be fake.
127
@Ego
Sound and fury instead of fire and fury -- that's a good thing.
5
@Ego Correct. Trump has spent all of his time in office, playing at being president instead of being a president. It was an office he didn't expect to win and when it miraculously fell into his lap, he has seen it merely as a path to riches and a return to financial solvency. The Iranians know this.
Donald is being presented with his first real foreign policy challenge and our fake president will likely just listen to his gut, since he's dismissed all of his capable advisors. And his gut will tell him to go play golf.
25
@Cornflower Rhys
"...a tale/Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,/Signifying nothing." Macbeth
And who is the teller of the tale?
1
Consult with congress because they're so level headed about these matters and he's sure to find rock-solid advice? Please. Their advice would be anything that helped get him out of office.
A key element here: Americans were not the target in these attacks. Trump's primary goal is to get a better nuclear deal with Iran. Not to disrupt oil supplies further. The US is locked & loaded. But Trump can afford to be patient. And despite all of his his bluster, when it comes to military actions, he's also a prudent man.
Your recommendations that Trump become rational for a change, and entertain dialogue with our Allies 'and with Iran itself', are of course plain common sense human endeavors, essential for justice and peace in this upside-down world. But knowing Trump's egomaniac clueless stance, we need more than sheer luck to change for the better. Chaos is Trump's world, for now.
1
This incident can only be a provocation aimed at the USA if we let it be. To the best of my knowledge, we did not encourage the Saudis to get involved in Yemen, they did that on their own. Let them deal with the consequences of that and the targeting of their oil facilities. The best course of action for the USA is no action. When it is all said and done, the people of the Middle East will have to sort out their collective problems among themselves. Repeated attempts by outsiders have led to naught.
4
Trump's "locked and loaded" comment, meant to make him look like a tough guy, is standard showbiz verbiage that is a continuation of Trump's Reality TV shtick, but is inflammatory language for a dangerous situation. He has painted himself into a corner, and once again, demonstrates that he is highly unfit for office and lacks a foreign policy with clear goals. He now lacks any moderating influences around him, and his impulses are unfettered and bolstered by the hawkish Mike Pompeo. Trump has had too many passes out of tight situations these last three years, but his luck (and ours) may soon run out.
7
Hello! Why isn't anyone saying the obvious:
The decision whether to attack Iran does not lie with the president. Only Congress has the authority to declare war. If Donald Trump decides to attack Iran - a sovereign nation - absent explicit approval from Congress, he will be subverting the constitution.
Does the constitution really mean nothing any longer?
23
@John
The US came up with a decent set of operating instructions those many years ago. They need updating - the late 18th century world does not resemble ours in the least. Especially the 2nd Amendment.
3
I wish that our president would have that force and "locked and loaded" energy to stand-up for Americans with no health care and to crusade to save the planet.
I felt "pena ajena", which is an expression of feeling sorrow and/or embarrassment for something other person did or said. The president of the most powerful country in the world being publicly subservient to a totalitarian regime that dismembered a journalist because of what he reported.
The US armed forces at the service of MBS. Somebody should inform Trump that his job is not Secretary of Defense of Saudi Arabia (which probably resembles the job of a top bodyguard for the crowned prince). Bolton got lucky to be fired.
10
Trump is in over his head, as he has been his whole life. He follows the money, not reasoned solutions. This is a time to really worry!
Is Pompeo a suitable adviser?
Good that Bolton is gone, unless he's back on Fox News.
Can't Congress help out by requiring congressional approval for any military action?
Does Trump take intelligence seriously? Does he trust the opinion of allies? Does he have anyone left in the administration who will give it to him straight?
11
@Jfitz Fox "News" talking heads, particularly one entertainer that is on week nights that Trump converses with often, and that entertainer at times must believe he is a brilliant military strategist, will tell Bone Spurs what to do.
1
The perpetrator is clearly either Iran or someone who wants everyone to think it is Iran. But whoever it was, it is difficult to understate how badly Trump has played all of this.
First he blew up the Iran nuclear treaty for no truly good reason, other than it was Obama's treaty, thus angering not only Iran, but also our allies.
Then he ratchets up sanctions on Iran with no achievable end game condition for Iranian leaders to have them lifted.
Then he makes clear how in bed he is with the Saudis, Iran's enemy, even going so far as to abdicate ABS of his ordered murder of a journalist/critic in Turkey.
And then he fires John Bolton, the only guy in the Trump administration Iran feared, and says he disagreed with most of Bolton's views.
And yesterday, Trump essentially says he has no appetite for a war with Iran.
On top of all that, Trump's uber-wealthy Republican donors, like the Koch machine that has generously funded Trump administration officials like Pence, Mulvaney and Pompeo, have made clear they want no intervention anywhere.
If I was Iran, I would conclude from his actions that Trump is a chicken hawk with no stomach for military action and no support of his allies.
8
Remember after 9/11 when the Saudis came to our defense against the attackers? Oh, wait, that is where they came from. Perhaps they do not need us to fight their wars.
20
The problem us that when trump and his henchmen say something, they are usually lying. The other problem is that trump has no intelligence data that he trusts, no information source other than Fox State TV and has to rely on Saudi Arabia and Israel for direction. His ability to lead us somewhere is nil.
Any choicethe makes will be a shot in the dark, with all the chaos and none of the comedy of a Peter Sellers movie.
5
"After Iran shot down an American drone in June.... The upshot is that Iran has now apparently raised the ante, challenging the White House with a brazen attack on an ally and one of the world’s most important oil producers".
There is no substantive proof that Iran was the perpetrator of these attacks. Isn't it possible that Saudi Arabia itself, or some other party interested in profiting from escalation of tensions in the region and a potential US war, orchestrated these attacks?
5
@Zara1234 : Zara, remember when the USA shot down an Iranian commercial airliner killing over 150 people ?
@Zara1234 The “some other party” makes as much sense. Ask who would really benefit by by stirring things up? Iran would be near the bottom of that list.
Every dictator that Trump has cozied up to has played him like a fiddle. Kim is developing and testing medium range ballistic missiles with abandon, and also still has his nukes. Trump claims that doesn't bother him because the missiles can't hit the mainland. Putin has Syria in his grasp. Russia has and is still waging a serious campaign on our elections and Trump says Putin denies it, and he did ask him strongly. MSB is slaughtering people in Yemen, and murdering journalists and anyone else he wants.
This is how Trump makes deals. He tell them they are great, they tell him he is great and then they do whatever they want.
Iran is a strong ally of Russia. Trump is backing off of his threats to attack Iran. Hmmm. Anyone besides me see a possible connection here? Maybe Trump should ask Putin, and strongly, what he should do?
All the sensible people in Trump's administration are gone. The Republicans excuse the turnover by saying that all serve under the pleasure of the President. That is true, but Trump's pleasure does not a secure country make.
The end result here of all this is that no one is in charge. Trump doesn't know what to do. He doesn't have anyone who can advise him. He probably wouldn't listen anyway.
Nothing like a complicated international crisis test a president's leadership. Doesn't look like Trump is going to pass this exam.
8
With Trump's erratic violent threats, we witness government menacing humans. Its violence so devastating, historians of humanity simply can't ignore it. Instead of taking the side of humans against government violence, a plainly obvious and correct ethical view, the Editorial Board is ambivalent about government violence against humans.The EB would like the Saudi and US governments to "explore every possibility of a diplomatic resolution before ordering military action".
To gain a better sense of government's "military action", the EB might visit Yemen or Iraq or Syria or Vietnam, learning of humans harmed by it, getting a sense of what government's violence means for humans. From a human's viewpoint, the EB's proposal is ethically repugnant.
5
This is Saudi Arabia's problem. The Yemenis fired back after being bombed by Saudi Arabia.
If the Saudis weren't the Trump bank, Trump wouldn't care at all.
Trump needs to realize that once he's out of office, the Saudis will want nothing to do with him and will not honor any agreements they are working on now.
Congress needs to step up and put a stop to this "lock and loaded" insanity before it's too late.
11
Words like that is what ignorant bullies, and males with bravado say, when they aren't able to form solid opinions about foreign policy. First of all, there should be definitive proof about who actually did this. Then, brute force isn't necessarily the solution to foreign policy issues related to civil wars, religious wars, etc. We are on our 3rd. President with no idea of what we should be doing in the middle east. Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Egypt, Syria, Yemen, Iran, the Palestinian people, Israel, Turkey, etc. The truth is, that things in those countries are far worse now, than they were many decades ago. There have been millions of deaths, millions of refugees left on the doorstep of western Europe, and trillions of mostly borrowed money spent will little to nothing to show for it in the way of peace, stability, and moderate religious factions in the middle east, and much of Africa.
6
America announced to the world: "locked and loaded", then followed by unlocked and unloaded. The guy representing us, representing America shows he doesn't know what's he doing. Yet he has the power to get all of us into a big conflict. This is really bad.
9
What if Iran actually made the drones that caused damage to Saudi oil facilities? So what.
If it is this easy to take down such facilities then who knows where and when the next such action will take place? Can the Saudis show us the paths that the drones followed on their way to the target? If the answer is no, why not?
If anything, this was a useful lesson that will fall on Presidential deaf ears.
Lesson 1 - USA must move much faster to end fossil fuel use. One as yet unused step - national programs of solid waste incineration to generate electricity and heat.
Lesson 2 - The worst thing the USA can do has already been done, exit from 5 + 1 program and the slow killing of Iranians via sanctions.
Lesson 3 - We should be supporting Iran as the only ME country that at least supports the education of women even if it then says Sister, watch that hijab.
Lesson 4 - Prevent the president from pulling any trigger of any kind. Bombing of Iran will in the end tear America further apart.
End of lesson
Only-NeverInSweden.blogspot.com
Citizen US SE
3
You get what you pay for. Trump's arrogance, ignorance and obsession with undoing every and all previous policy and thoughts about how to do business in this part of the world is now coming home to haunt him. European leaders have concerns about the situation but will be in no hurry to bail out the bully. And by the way why can't the Saudis with all the sophisticated weaponry we have sold them do better at providing security for their property? Sorry but this is not our battle - we hardly need to race back into a region we helped to destabilize in the first place.
5
The country that was the home of almost all of the 9/11 hijackers, the home of Osama bin Laden, and the country who's Crown Prince murdered a legal US resident when he applied for a marriage license and chopped his body up with a saw, is not an alley or any kind of friend of my country. In case any body has missed it we are killing the whole planet with our addiction to fossil fuels. Oh and by the way does anyone remember the oil embargo of the 70's? Our dealer maybe, but not friends really not friends.
5
If this is the kind of decision which gets Trump the headlines he so craves, I am all for it. Even though I cannot stand the man, his party, and the insufferable toadies around him (I am looking at you Wilbur Ross among others), he will probably not involve us in another Iraq as the Cheneys and the Boltons of the world did.
A leopard can't change his spots. Trump has shown himself to be obstinate, ignorant and insular. There is no reformation in the cards. He is what he is. The best we will get is more saber rattling and various incoherent ramblings, followed by Pompeo explanations. If sticking with empty rhetoric is good enough to stay out war then I'm all for it. The Iranians know Trump, the allies know him, and we know him. The stakes are high and expectations are low.
3
It is human nature, implicit, to think I live in a world where everyone else is thinking the way I do. That is obviously not the case. Not all individuals in the world do as I say if I otherwise will make them broke, or change who they are, by me putting a gun to their head. That is not the case: The Houthies, as example would rather starve to death, it seems, than leave their conviction of how they want to live their lives. To the Iranians US, and their proxies, could be seen as a paper tiger. Piet Hein: “the noble art of losing face, may sometime save the human race, and turn into eternal merit, what weaker minds would call disgrace”.
1
“locked and loaded,” but that he was waiting to hear from Saudi Arabia on how to proceed“
Between the Saudi prince and V. Putin it’s hard to tell who has more influence.
For my money, Trump was thinking Putin when he said, Saudis. This is beyond the pale.
Where are the loyal intelligence folks? They took an oath to defend a constitution that’s under attack by a president. They did not take an oath to support the president. Come on guys. Spill the beans on Trump. You know you want to.
3
America First means America Alone.
And don't forget that.
2
It seems like if you’re REALLY trying to avoid war then the thing to do is NOT offer to go to war if some country decides asks you to.
2
I wonder what its like to be a member of our military, which went heavily for Trump in 2016, knowing that your life might be on the line because he happened to wake up with indigestion that morning?
2
Why don't the Saudis use the many weapons systems we've sold them to defend themselves?
5
@Mary Ann Hutto-Jacobs
The Americans withheld the instruction manuals.
@Mary Ann Hutto-Jacobs They are too busy bombing Yemenis with the; who they thought could not strike back. Actions have consequences.
All of a sudden, it's all become tragic, and profoundly sad. One could not believe anyone anymore about the drone strikes; would you believe Trump, Pompeo, McConnell, if they said that the drones were definitely Iranian? Jared? MBS? Netanyahu? And, in other news, Nadler too busy with impeachment (since when?) to bother with Kavanaugh, as is Schumer. Hardly ever before since Trump became president, in one day is the evil of the world so manifest. There is nowhere to turn; no one to trust; nothing to hope for.
2
Months prior to the 2016 election, dozens of national security experts went public with a joint letter warning that Donald Trump lacks the temperament and knowledge to be fit to be the President of the United States. He still is.
5
"Trump has few options, few allies, a depleted national security team and little credibility".
Add chaos and incompetance and that sentance sums up the totality of the trump presidency.
5
From the lede: ". . . the drone attacks on Saudi oil facilities early Saturday amount to a sharp provocation against the United States."
When you begin with an almost-certainly false premise . . .
Even if the attack was carried out by Iran or at its behest, the endless provocation *of* that nation by the US, together with the fact that Saudi Arabia *isn't* the US, makes the initial assertion in this editorial unconvincing in the extreme.
5
Our reality tv president dreamed of dominating the ratings with a made for tv moment in which he does a photo op with an adversary. Instead we get the entirely predictable result of his reckless withdrawal from the Iran nuclear agreement- isolation from our allies, retaliation, and escalation of tensions in the Saudi backed war in Yemen. And now what?
7
The fact that he used the phrase "locked and loaded" is more than disturbing during this times of heightened gun-violence. Too much. Vote for candidates who are committed to gun reform, banning assault weapons and not in the pocket of the NRA.
5
To characterize this attack, which you neglect mention has been claimed by the Houthis, as an escalation by Iran when Saudi Arabia has been raining death down on Yemeni civilians for years and the US broke its treaty with Iran and has been unilaterally imposing crippling economic sanctions is Orwellian.
Likewise, to describe Saudi King Mohammed Bin Salman as having "got his kingdom and the United States into the enormously destructive civil war in Yemen" suggests the the US government, first under Obama and now under Trump, is somehow not responsible for its role in the genocidal slaughter and strangulation of Yemen and its people.
This is the subtle language of imperial propaganda. Even while criticizing Trump's saber rattling, it frames the conflict as one in which Iran is the aggressor when in fact by any reasonable reading, the US is the principal supplier of the weapons responsible for the worst carnage in Yemen, and by encouraging acts against Iranian commercial vessels the US is already engaged in acts of war against Iran.
Iran's "crimes" in this conflict seem limited to defending its territorial waters and airspace against intrusions by the US and its allies and to supplying the Houthis with the means to impose an economic cost on Saudi war crimes.
11
Overwhelmed under the lavish largesse b the Saudi regime Trump is in a fix whether to blame Iran for the attacks on the Saudi oil assets or not. What a pity! the US that used to set the policy course for the Gulf is now compelled to follow the dictates of the Saudis whatever it costs to the US.
2
Given the vulnerability of Saudi facilities, best be talking about talking, not war.
3
This is a very confused editorial. The attack is said to be a "sharp provocation" of the United States; but the actual provacateurs in this case are the Yemeni rebels that Saudi Arabia has been fighting maliciously for years. So it's a perfectly understandable escalation of that war, not a provocation directed at the US. And while the Editorial acknowledges that US foreign policy should not be conditioned on the "druthers" of Saudi Arabia, it goes on to consider what the US response should be. The proper response belongs to Saudi Arabia: get out of Yemen and stop the indiscriminate slaughter of civilians there.
4
Perhaps the wheels are finally coming off the clown car. T has been lucky to have the Obama economic recovery, even though he is trying to destroy all things Obama. There should be no question that T has impaired thinking, mostly a Dunning-Kreuger effect, but without the ability to listen to knowledgeable advisors, he is likely to run amok.But there must be some patriots like Mattis who have kept his instincts suppressed and there is a time line of the secondary effects of his fundamental mistakes. Tariffs may yet lead to a "deal" with China but it will drive a needless wedge into the necessary relationship that we would like to ease toward our fundamentals instead of fight a costly war that we would eventually lose. We have won the culture war but we are snatching defeat from the jaws of victory. Sigh!
2
The Iranians are excellent strategic thinkers.
And they demonstrate strategic patience.
Mr Trump is impulsive and has no real strategy whatsoever.
7
He has no idea what he’s doing. He never has. And he has no credibility either; that is NOT a good combination.
5
So soon after 9/11 (only 18 years), we forget that Saudi nationals have done more harm to this country that Iranians or Yemenis and yet this article states that the drone attacks "amount to a sharp provocation against the United States." Perhaps against Trump, but not against the American people. Trump obviously enjoyed his little sword dance with the Saudis. Now he must help pay the piper.
5
At this point do we really know who attacked the facility? The article states it was Iran. Other than Pompeo and Trump saying it's Iran, what is the proof? Remember those weapons of mass destruction that got us into the war with Iraq?
6
This is the real Trump. Meet any and all perceived acts of aggression with bullying force. Nothing subtle here. There is money to be made from the Saudis and all he has to do is play ball. So he hurl's threats and hopes his leverage will pull him through. But he has the most limited understanding of cultures and their histories of any other president living or dead. Sooner or later, he is going to bully the wrong country with nothing to back him up. Our allies don't trust him and they do not want to have to deal with him. So as he has often noted, he will go it alone, for he is the only one who can save us and make America great again.
4
Excuse me but did America suffer a case of collective amnesia recently? Are we forgetting who was behind the attack on the Twins? I'm sorry but the Saudis are no allies of ours. The whole idea of them being one is absurd.
They made the mess they now confront, with more than a few Yemen-styled birds having come home to roost. Let them deal with all that they have done, unaided. We don't need to have their backs because they have never had ours.
Just some thoughts from a person who was standing 4 blocks down on Broadway when the south Twin fell. I will never forget and, though I get that international politics is a rough and tumble "sport," I do not forgive. I say stand aside America, this is not our concern.
John~
American Net'Zen
8
We are on a precipice of war with Iran.
The president is a former real estate entrepreneur & reality tv host. He's never served in the military or in any government position before. His education was a major in real estate. The president famously doesn't read books & thinks he doesn't need his daily national security briefings.
Trump has fired, alienated or chased off our closest, most trusted allies. Trump rid himself of the few people in his administration who might have offered him wise counsel at this time, most notably General Mattis.
Who would advise the president now? Jared Kushner? His buddy MBS? Vladimir Putin? Bibi Netanyahu?
When Trump was elected, President Obama said that he would always be available to offer assistance if necessary. Rather than go to previous presidents for their insights, Trump has abused & insulted Presidents Obama, Bush, Clinton and Carter - all of whom presumably would still offer Trump any assistance they could. Trump famously doesn't listen to advisers. He's bragged repeatedly about going it alone & famously listens to his 'gut.'
Trump's famous gut that left him a billion dollars in debt with multiple failed businesses & 5 bankruptcies.
Trump's been going it alone - and failing - his whole life.
Over 62 million Americans voted for him anyway.
We can all hope they'll learn something from this administration about how "breaking things" isn't necessarily the way to go.
6
@fast/furious
It's truly and deeply alarming to see the President of the United States take a country that was running reasonably well and head it down the road to wreck and ruin. And with the national debt piling up thanks to tax cuts and increased spending, I guess we're heading toward a kind of national bankruptcy. And the GOP is silent. Way to go.
3
I saw the spy pics of the attacked site. No misses. 100% geometric. All 4 hits on the domes in a straight line. All holes of same size. All domes hit a 8 o'clock position at exactly the same height from the ground.
These were not human operator targetted. The attacker clearly has super advanced AI targetting. Consider which country in the Middle East has access to such accurate AI targetting technology. If Iran or the Houthis have such weaponry then it is reasonable to avoid war. Its their Colt Peacemaker.
2
"It remained unclear for the moment why Iran or one of its proxies had apparently sought so great an escalation of regional tensions at this time". Is that so? Iran's economy is strangled by the US embargo on its oil export. The exclusion of the dollar market imposed on a country that totally depends on its oil revenues, is like pointing a gun against it's forehead. The more the (financial) oxygen is pushed out of Iran's lungs the more desperate its actions will be. Remember Japan! On August 1 1941 the US imposed an oil embargo; on December 7th Pearl Harbor was attacked. Don't you see the similarity?
1
This is the first major crisis we all feared. And, just as we suspected would be the case, Mr. Trump is so little up to the task, so lacking in understanding, so trapped in a skeletal administration that he is, shockingly, relying on a murderous regime to tell us what to do. This should probably not be surprising given his preference for any intelligence produced by any government but his own. Our would-be strong man is, in all probability, the laughing-stock in Russia and North Korea. I shudder to think of his performance next week at the UN General Assembly. We'll see if it's cringe-worthy, terrifying, or both.
3
@Joan1009 Trump will get laughed at again at the UN and then he'll wonder why. There should be a way to keep him from making a fool of himself, and this country, once again.
It is somewhat baffling to me why the US would have to be responsible, lets call a spade a spade, avenge the “supposed” attack on a Saudi oil installation. After all, didn’t Mr. Trump use his legendary ability to make the world’s biggest deal, ever, and sell the Saudi’s billions and billions of dollars in military hardware. Surely the US has not sunken to the level of a hired gun, although I am positive President Bone Spur, would be ecstatic, as such, he can go around muttering martial expressions, like locked and loaded!
The present situation borders on the surreal. Does he have any idea what form any retaliatory action would be, is there a follow up plan in place? We are getting to the point the US is seen as a mental health facility, being run by patients!
It is mind boggling to think, that an individual, who has never really accomplished anything at all on his own, has single handedly, almost totally destroyed the greatest experiment in democratic government ever!
Why is it a surprise to anyone that there was an attack against Saudi Arabia? They have been conducting a genocidal war against the Yemenis. Why is the Trump administration trying to drum up a war against Iran? The Sunnis and the Shia have been at war with each other for generations. Are we taking sides with the Sunnis because they are the larger sect? Because they control more oil?
The obvious target is the Houthi Rebels who are bragging they did it and promising more attacks. Some days or weeks of intelligence gathering, followed by targeting then take out as many of them as we can, with a particular emphasis on any locations where we know Iranian personnel are present.
Come on, folks. “Locked and loaded” is something Trump heard a tough guy say in a Hollywood movie. He thought it would play with the crowd wearing the red MAGA hats.
Trump has no clue what he’s talking about; no idea what he’ll do. But he’ll watch Fox News, ask Mr. Pompeo and Jared and Ivanka what they think, and then come up with something. Which we’ll find out about in a few frantic ‘tweets.’ Whatever it is, it will be aimed at ‘getting good ratings’ and making sure our ‘billions and billions of dollars worth of business’ with the Saudis remains unscathed. That’s what he concluded was paramount in the Khashoggi incident; and that’s top of the mind stuff here.
4
Donald Trump's national security terms to learn this week:
- distinction
- proportionality
- military necessity
- unnecessary suffering
Cheers
By his petulant rejection of the Iran nuclear deal crafted by Barack Obama and his re-imposition of severe sanctions, at the urging of Benjamin Netanyahu, Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman and the re-awakened American neo-cons, Donald Trump elevated the marginalized hardliners in Iran and weakened moderate voices there.
The militant Revolutionary Guard had been relegated to building dams (which they did badly, damaging the Iranian aquifer and aggravating diminished crop production). Trump’s actions pushed the Revolutionary Guard to the forefront and accelerated the effort to produce weapon-grade, enriched uranium.
The exact role of Iran in the bombing of the Saudi oilfield may not be known, but it is likely an offshoot of the faceoff between the two countries because of the cruel Saudi war against the Houthi forces of Yemen, killing tens of thousands of non-combatants.
The New York Times Editorial Board is correct by calling upon President Trump to consult with Americans outside his immediate circle of sycophants. He needs to talk with un-politicized members of the American military and intelligence communities. He needs to meet with leaders of our chief European allies.
The world rightly demands a solution, not a conflagration, in the region.
1
Why does President Trump use the military slang "locked and loaded" (from John Wayne's "Sands of Iwo Jima", 1949) when he doesn't know diddly about American history and the military? Mr. Trump doesn't have any idea of the negative impact his ignorant and bullying words have on the world and we the people.
And Trump waiting to hear what Saudi Arabia has to say about how the United States should proceed against Iranian-backed drone attacks on Saudi oil refineries? Trump recently canned his 3rd National Security Adviser in 3 years and will now take over that job, too.
Mike Pompeo, Secretary of State, brash Kansas Rep. and former head of the CIA is now in charge of Trump's bizarre foreign policy and announced to us that Iran attacked Saudi oil installations.
Meanwhile, Iran denies the oil-crippling drone strikes in Saudi Arabia, and won't meet with Trump or any of his foreign policy minions. Isn't the 45th President's confederacy of dunces (Jonathan Swift, 1706) driving America into the ground?.
Recently, my wife and I saw an interview on NHK, Japan's state broadcaster, with a Japanese Middle East specialist who said there was evidence that Saudi Arabia had been helping like-minded Pakistan to develop a nuclear bomb, which Riyadh itself could employ against an enemy like Iran. I have no idea whether this is true, but given the nature of the Saudi regime, especially the bloody-handed crown prince, it seems very credible.
1
“And at this dangerous moment, President Trump has few options, few allies, a depleted national security team and little credibility.”
What the New York Times editorial board does not understand is that describes Trump’s idea of winning! It is the prelude to the time when Trump will stride like a colossus over the dead cities of the world.
1
Time to consult with allies? That sounds as fantastical as his long-ago wished for pivot.
2
This fight is between Sunni and Shia and the two countries, Iran and SA, need to fight this out alone among themselves. We have armed and trained SA. Let them lose their sons to a religious war, not ours.
3
“Diplomacy is never exhausted until the last twelve seconds.” I don’t know who fed Trump that line, but leave it to Trump to come out with an eminently quotable line that has no meaning. I hope some reporter soon asks him exactly what that means. It seems to me that the idea works pretty well if your side is firing the first shot but not so much if the other guy fires first.
1
Responding to the press outside the White House, Trump stated that the U.S. has sufficient reserve to cover the shortfall, resulting from the bombing. In fact, the bombing will have no affect. Yet, he is pondering a "proportionate" response. If the U.S. is in fact unaffected by the bombing, the proportionate response should be zero.
10
I was not a supporter of the JCPAO however once signed by the US the idea that it can be capriciously cast aside is incredibly destructive to the relations with our allies, and our adversaries who won’t risk giving up anything (like nukes, or interfering in our elections) for better relationships with the US since our word, even in writing, has no obligations behind it.
Worse, all this makes it all but impossible to do what should have been done - build on the JCPOA, and close any loopholes.
4
Had Russian backed Syrians done the same thing to Turkey, would the Board be questioning the legitimacy of a NATO response ?
Allies refer to each other as allies for a reason. The US has become involved in far more complex actions in the Persian Gulf with out even having a direct attack on Saudi Arabia as a predicate.
Anyone remember the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait ?
In this case, a measured response is probably best.
It will take time to evaluate the effect of these attacks on global US interests, and in the end they may turn out to have been beneficial.
Still, unanswered, this sort of mischief can lead to things of much greater consequence.
The message will be equally clear if delivered quietly, by ensuring that a series of unfortunate accidents befalls the Quds commanders in Iraq and Yemen, that when Tehran calls its clandestine agents around the world, they find themselves unable to get anyone to answer the phone, and that their foreign post "commercial" and "cultural" attaches start disappearing.
1
Trump’s unwillingness to work with and support our allies threatens our national security, particularly during times of crisis. He has little in the way of a national security team because, like a mob boss, he recruits on the primarily on the basis of loyalty, wanting only yes men.
His impaired thinking has led to the current crisis, made even more dangerous by seeking advice from Saudi Arabia. Congress should not be thinking impeachment; instead, it should be thinking the twenty-fifth amendment before he explodes the middle east.
16
Unfortunately removal of the President via the 25th Amendment falls to the President’s cabinet members, not Congress.
3
"Left to his own devices, Mr. Trump has generally preferred to avoid conflict." Thank you, editors, for noticing that intriguing fact about Mr. Trump. He doesn't love war.
6
@James Ribe - That's because he doesn't profit from it.
If he had military contracts of some sort he would have started WWIII by now.
2
There's lots I don't understand here. The attack was directed at Saudi Arabia. Why is it up to us to respond? I think they (and many others) need to fight their own battles. Our role as the world's policeman needs to end.
We are now a net energy exporter. Why are our gas prices going to go up? I understand prices going up in the countries buying Saudi oil, but not here.
27
@Greg B Relax. Saudi hasn't told you how to respond yet. So there's still a chance you won't. But they do pay cash, a big plus for the president, so you may yet have to fire up the marching bands, unfurl the flags and decorate your trees with some colored ribbons.
2
Why would Iranians take the dangerous step of interrupting the global oil supply? Could it be a long game act, ala President Xi of China, to assure no diplomatic win for Trump prior to Nov. 2020.
1
@Ed N: It's much more likely that the Iranians *would not* interrupt the oil supply in a manner that would increase the chances of a shooting war with the US, so speculation about China is probably as fruitless and it is . . . ummm . . . speculative.
What a dilemma for Trump. On the one hand, he needs to ensure sanctions stay in place, so Aramco can have a successful IPO. On the other hand, he needs to ease those sanctions so that Iran doesn't foul things up and Aramco can have a successful IPO. If Iran would just agree to limit production for a little while and cripple its already crippled economy, why, we'd have no problem at all.
But seriously, the whole point of the Aramco IPO is so the king-in-waiting can raise enough money to get out of the oil business, which has no future either practically or politically in the coming decades. A clever politician might wonder why we couldn't diversify the same way and in the process detach ourselves from the problematic regime that's been the albatross of our foreign policy in the Middle East. But no, Trump is playing the long game--as in, we'll be facing the consequences when he's been long since dead and buried.
11
Eighteen years ago, the US was attacked by guerilla jihadists, mostly from Saudi Arabia. Did the leaders of SA announce they were "locked and loaded" after that attack? Did they shut down the madrasas where children learned the basics of jihad? Did they stop wealthy Saudis from supporting jihadists?
The motives for the attack are unclear. There are a lot of reasons different nations, individuals and groups might want to strike at Saudi Arabia. Given the complexities of petro-politics, the perpetrators might even be corporate "people."
Saudi Arabia may be a good customer of US weapons. They may have invested in Trump properties. That does not mean there's any rational reason for the US to rush to defend their oil facilities, no matter who initiated that attack.
18
Considering the children’s story of the boy who cried wolf and the history of alternative facts (aka lies) coming out of Trump and his talking heads, I’m having difficulty accepting any statement from this administration attributing this “provocation” to Iran. American foreign policy in the region is a cacophony of voices with a singular fixation yet no plan for success. Every administration since 1948 with extremely rare exception has implemented aggressive covert and overt intervention in the internal politics of every Arab country. What have we to show for that strategy? The overthrow of a lawfully elected government in Iran; installing the Pahlavi government in Iran; a war launched on lies in, yes – again, Iran.
My family has served in the US Army in every generation since 1835. I have no objection to use of military power to defend the nation. I do expect there to be a real defined threat, a clear and specific goal, a well-designed battle plan, established exit bench marks prior to the start of hostilities, full support from the public, and comprehensive engagement by our allies.
“Locked and loaded” and awaiting direction from MBS does not meet those criteria.
31
@Billfer
Good luck with those expectations!
Haven't been employed since WWII.
@Billfer
Sorry for the misstatement. That should read as
" And now what" - a war launched on lies in, yes – again, Iran.
1
This is where Trump's lack of character becomes a much more serious problem for our country. The reality show has gone off script and now it's time for a leader who is respected and trusted to step forward and face this global issue with a calm intelligence relying on trusted experts and advisors who are willing to speak the truth even if it goes against his inane Tweets. It is becoming more apparent each day to the people around Trump as well as a majority of Americans that he is in way over his head and not capable of determining our foreign policy let alone manage another war.
51
There is a player in this drama that no one has mentioned - Israel’s Netanyahu. Israelis head to the polls today to elect their prime minister and apparently things were not looking all that well for Mr. Netanyahu who has staked his campaign on being the only one who can keep Israel safe and Iran in its place. What better a reminder to the Israelis that Iran is a clear and present danger to their safety than a brazen attack on Saudi Arabia?
Trump may be tweeting that he is waiting instructions on how to respond to Iran’s alleged attack from MBS, but that may be a smokescreen for the real reason - coming to the help of his buddy Bibi Netanyahu and secure his re-election.
Yeah, this may be a whopper of a conspiracy theory, but when it comes to the Middle East anything goes.
40
With the current climate of deceit and cover-up for manipulating the public, it would not be that unusual for collusion between our two governments to have planned this damage for personal & political gain. We already know the Saudis have no respect for human life, and the U.S. is following suite. It's all just business as the saying goes.
13
Isn't it intetesting how many hawkish leaders are men who were never in a battkefield of war? I'm surprised no journalist confronts our leaders with this irony. So easy to throw a bomb, so challenging to create peace.
34
Since Trump proclaimed "we don't need Middle East oil or gas" I can't fathom why our prices would be affected or why we would need to be locked and loaded. This is clearly the rest of the world's problem who are noticeably absent from this event.
26
Other than oil, why is the US even in the Middle East? That oil is not ours. It belongs to the various producers and they sell it to the rest of the world.
The US does not own the world, its people or its resources.
53
"The time has come for Mr. Trump to consult with Congress, with major industrial nations that depend on Middle Eastern oil and with military and intelligence analysts outside his immediate circle."
But he won't.
34
@Phil Hurwitz ""The time has come for Mr. Trump to consult with Congress, with major industrial nations that depend on Middle Eastern oil and with military and intelligence analysts outside his immediate circle."
But he won't."
And that's because the advice he would get from US allies would be "Sign a 10 yr agreement w them, that would result in a less aggressive Iran" Of course, the Obama administration got one of those agreements and he voided it. Idiocy at its best!
1
Americans need to be absolutely clear - Saudi Arabia is not our ally. They sell us their oil and buy weapons from American firms. That's it. They do share our values, our beliefs nor our hopes for the future.
47
@GTM They DO SHARE ?:?? I suppose you meant THEY DO NOT SHARE
2
This problem is primarily a Yemen-Saudi war problem. Of course, the Saudi's and Israel will happily promote the destruction of the Saudi oil refineries as a U.S.-Iran war problem. Remember the 'weapons of mass destruction' rationale that was use to get us into attacking Iraq? We used trumped up evidence to go to war. The rebels in Yemen have used drones to previously attack Saudi airports and other assets. It's not that difficult to accept the notion that this is an escalation in Yemen's effort to defend itself against the Saudi onslaught.
Maybe Americans should be talking less about oil politics and more about ushering in the age of the New Green Deal. That's the elephant in the middle of the room.
39
The fundamental conflict among Arabs in the Middle East pits Sunni (Saudi Arabia) against Shia (Houthis, Iran) muslims.
Saddam Hussein, a Sunni, also waged war against Iran and the Shia within his own nation.
The US has weaned itself off its reliance on Middle East oil with the development of fracking, but it remains an interested party to the delivery of Middle East oil to other nations. The American stake in this conflict is the sales of billions of dollars of arms to Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates.
The US no doubt knows who is behind the drone strikes. The US, the Israelis, and other allied nations have audiovisual satellite surveillance throughout the region. If they truly do not know, the Western powers are in serious trouble.
In his efforts to overturn Obama's "weak" legacy and present himself as the American strongman, Trump has boxed himself into a corner.
The Iranians understand that Trump cannot risk everything--including his chances for re-election--and pursue a retaliatory strike. But his contradictory rants and vacillating passivity make him seem weaker by the minute.
62
@Andrew Shin
When is the last time the U.S. electorate turned out a president during a war? answer : it never has. I believe the Iranian "war" is this president's fail safe strategy for a second term, concocted from the administrations early days
1
@John G. Le Blanc
"The owl of Minerva spreads its wings only with the falling of the dusk" -- Hegel.
Enough time has passed for philosophers to assess recent history.
Of the two one-term Presidents in recent memory, the example of Jimmy Carter is perhaps most apropos. Carter had to deal with the Revolution in Iran and the kidnapping of fifty-two American embassy staff by radical Iranian students.
Operation Eagle Claw was an abject failure, culminating in the loss of eight servicemen and two aircraft. Cyrus Vance, the Secretary of State, resigned in its aftermath.
Reagan used this military failure to his advantage, and the Iranians released the hostages on the day of Reagan's inauguration on January 20, 1981.
This is the situation Trump is facing. Any "war" will be conducted through drones and intermediate missile strikes.
We also have the hindsight of the Iraq campaign, the most consequential catastrophe in recent memory.
The Iraq War stimulated the exodus of millions of Muslims from their homelands to North America, Europe, and Asia, witnessing the emergence of reactionary political entities--including Trump--in these regions.
Remember Trump's Muslim ban?
If war indeed breaks out, we cannot predict the consequences from our limited perspectives. One thing is for sure, there will be an unbearable cost in military--and Middle Eastern civilian--casualties.
The only player that benefits is the military-industrial complex.
1
I think that Trump will not start a war, mostly because he would have to wear the consequences and the blame.
If he could blame someone else, preferably Mr. Obama, I think he would be mighty tempted.
26
@maggie Of course he will blame Obama. He always blames Obama; that's what passes for strategy in this White House. In fact, in its own perverse way, that's what the Trump presidency is all about: getting even with his predecessor for being the man he can never be.
3
The only time I have ever heard the term:
"Locked and Loaded" used as a term for being "tough" and ready to fight......
is when Suburban, white men want to sound rural tough like what they see on TV and in movies.
Men actually raised in a truly rural environment don't use that term to sound tough. We use that term to describe moving a bolt action rifle from a safe, unloaded state to a loaded state once in a tree to hunt deer typically.
The phrase has nothing to do with tough for the men who originally coined the phrase way out in the rural communities.
Rather, that term is only used as a moniker for toughness by the suburban, male, fakers, and Trump, who never climbed a tree, in the dark, with an unloaded bolt action rifle, then, closed the bolt to enable it as "locked and loaded".
It just means one is now sitting uncomfortably high up in a tree with a leg straddled over a limb waiting for sunrise.
A fair number of us fall out of said tree and are killed or injured every year.
48
@Michael My sympathy is for the deer. But, yes, Trump is too fat to get up a tree, and too cowardly to go out on any limb.
1
Saudi Arabia with the world's third largest defense budget can't seem to be able to defend their oil installations from a couple of cheap drones. This looks like another case of the WMDs just in order to drag the United States into another war.
88
I drive an electric car charged from the solar arrays on the roof of my house. I use locally generated wind power to make up for shortfalls and source energy to my local power lines when I have too much. (And, no, this arrangement as not expensive. $8k for the solar panels. $32k for the car.) As far as I am concerned, the Saudis can drink their oil and go pack sand.
Solar power! No wars required!
146
This is nothing but a desperate ploy to help chances for re election. A war would stimulate the economy and make some voters hesitant to switch.
34
This kind of makes one wonder who it was that ordered up he drone strike. What are the Saudis getting out of this? Are the Saudis better off with four more years of Trump? One way to find out: see which Republicans made bets on oil before the strike occurred. I would not put it past them.
2
"The time has come for Mr. Trump to consult with Congress, with major industrial nations that depend on Middle Eastern oil and with military and intelligence analysts outside his immediate circle."
The "very stable genius" sees no need for such consultations. I'm not joking. This is where we are.
32
"Locked and loaded" is a reverse metaphor. It should be "loaded and locked," if that makes any difference. But loaded for what? We can't fight another war. Our military is burnt out. Trump is the ultimate paper tiger. The way to solve this problem is diplomacy, not war, but the problem with that is that Trump has no diplomats on his staff. Take that into consideration than then consider that the self appointed best deal maker could not deal out a hand of solitaire.
74
It is unlikely that Trump will be able to build any substantial coalition in response to this emergency.
Trump is an uncompromising and deliberately divisive president. If he remains in office through 2024, is the U.S. likely to rediscover common ground with our allies and appropriately respond to the international challenges that confront us?
General Jim Mattis recently stated: “What concerns me most as a military man is not our external adversaries; it is . . . internal divisiveness . . . that jeopardizes our future [and prevents us from] rediscovering our common ground and finding solutions.” The general’s comments apply to the international scene just as much as to the domestic.
What are the prospects for discovering common ground? Most Americans and many of our foreign allies are convinced, on the basis of ever mounting evidence, that President Trump is incompetent, corrupt, disparages American intelligence agencies, sides with dictators, is antagonistic toward U.S. allies, is subservient to foreign interests, is little concerned with securing the integrity of America’s 2020 election, is dishonest, disdains the rule of law, and demeans democratic institutions. They are convinced Trump’s presidency undermines America’s global influence and international reputation, and constitutes a massive threat both to our national security and to our domestic welfare.
49
He probably was confused about where he was. He probably usually says this right before he says, "who does number 2 work for?"
5
"Locked and Loaded" to do nothing of any importance at all. It's how we confronted North Korea's nuclear threats. That's why they don't have nuclear weapons anymore, not a single one.
31
@Ryan
BUT Trump thinks he now has a father-son relationship with the murderous Kim Jong-un—perhaps for future real estate deals in an "opened" North Korea.
1
@Ryan I saw what you did there. Good job.
"The time has come for Mr. Trump to consult with Congress, with major industrial nations that depend on Middle Eastern oil and with military and intelligence analysts outside his immediate circle."
Consult with France. Macron is leading the way in how to deal with Iran: loan them billions, woo them back to the Obama nuclear deal, keep the peace. Trump should follow his lead. But he won't cause it's Obama's original idea. He'd rather spend trillions on war than billions on peace? Let's hope not.
76
trump should consult with Congress before starting a war?
trump's obvious retort: "What's in it for me?"
34
We all know that Putin would never authorize a U.S. invasion of Iran, a nation that Putin already controls. However, Putin would surely encourage Trump to make inane tweets about being "locked and loaded" to drive the price of oil higher. Putin's long game is controlling the Middle East and the supply of oil. Now that he can leverage his control of the U.S. against other major producers, Putin is clearly in the driver's seat. It's possible that Putin's decision to boost the price of oil is just a bear trap for U.S. investors who still believe that they can get ROI out of shale.
27
Trump has said over the years that he gets money from Saudi Arabia.
We should not have a president who has financial entanglements with foreign countries.
Nobody should be wondering whether Trump is siding with Saudi Arabia because he has financial connections with the Saudis.
This situation is unconscionable.
199
@fast/furious
Of course he's being solicitous because of past dealings with SA--Trump has been behaving like this ever since he took office. He is the most ethically-challenged president we've ever had. Problem is, how do we get him to stop?
7
@fast/furious-Yep. The Saudis "own" quite a bit of Trump and Jared.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-and-saudi-arabia-deep-business-ties-spark-new-scrutiny/
6
The President says he will take Saudi money while Americans do the fighting?
American troops are not mercenaries. We do not fight except for the national interest of the United States.
American troops do not fight without Congressional authorization, unless there is a direct attack on the United States. The President does not use American troops as mercenaries to benefit his financial value to the Saudis.
108
@Pepper Thank you for point this out!
1
Even if the weapons were manufactured in Iran thos does not prove that Iran launched the attack. The US have sold many of the weapons to Saudi Arabia which the kingdom used/is using for its bombardment of Yemen.
Does this make the US the attacker? No.
The US as a large scale weapons vendor throughout the world bears a different sort of ethical responsibility - as does Iran should they have sold the weapons used in this attack.
The USA are not using the same yardstick when they measure their own responsibilities vis-a-vis the one of other countries selling weapons and ammunition.
63
The Times editorial writers begin by questioning the origin of the attack, yet at the end, with, minimal analysis, essentially assume it was Iran: "Iran has now apparently raised the ante, challenging the White House with a brazen attack on an ally". This is central to the issue of retaliation, but it is glossed over in the piece. It raises questions about the writers' grasp of the situation as well as that of Donald Trump.
36
So the Saudis buy BILLIONS of dollars in arms from the US, to attack other countries - but not to defend themselves? That's somehow OUR job? Let Trump/Pompeo explain that one.
315
“Locked and loaded is a broad term and talks about the realities that we're all far safer and more secure domestically from energy independence."
This is the commentary of Trump’s “Locked and Loaded” statement by the Vice President.
Trump’s sermons should not taken literally but read with commentaries. We have the entire White House provide the necessary sophistry to explain his statements.
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It's also a fine reminder that "invoking the 25th" will never, EVER happen with Pence in power.
Remember folks, it requires the vice president (or someone pretending to hold the job) AND the cabinet to get rolling, and they're ALL loyal to the loser—not to us.
We need independence, but not from just "foreign" oil!
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Um, you may want to think more deeply about that. “Sophistry,” means that you’re willing to say ANYTHING to get what you want, and couldn’t care less about whether or not it’s true or wise or even sensible.
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When Trump yet again claims that he has "completely rebuilt the military" I wish someone would ask him to very specifically detail exactly what that means. I mean, we all know it's just another lie but I'm curious about how he would dance around that one.
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No doubt Trump's dithering in the Middle East is, in part, because he fears that another war will have a negative affect on the US economy. Not good for 2020.
Typical of Trump, he has shot his mouth off and then was reminded of the consequences: another "....oh wait" moment.
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They have been fighting each other in Yemen for about the last 1,000 years.
I would like to remind the Times of their enthusiasm for the invasion of Iraq. There were no 'weapons of mass destruction' found, none existed.
The Saudis are belligerents in a war, they are active participants. They got spanked, that's the risk you take. The Iranians appear to be no more the aggressors in the war in Yemen than the Saudis. We should not have a dog in this hunt.
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Can we rewind four years? Is it not true that during this entire time Saudi Arabia has been bombing Yemen on a daily basis using airplanes and munitions supplied by the United States?
And now the Yemenis have replied by firing 4 drones allegedly supplied by Iran? Excuse me, but where is the proportionality?
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@Gibbs Kinderman
Oil is more important than human lives don’t you know.
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How is it even vaguely possible to support a president who lies, insults, breaks his promises and changes his mind by the minute? His lack of support domestically and internationally is turning into a glaring weakness that invites mischief from potential adversaries.
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In what universe does an attack on two Saudi refineries have anything whatsoever to do with us? And I read somewhere else that the Saudis consider this their "9 11. " At least they know the meaning of the word "chutzpah."
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"The time has come for Mr. Trump to consult with Congress, with major industrial nations that depend on Middle Eastern oil and with military and intelligence analysts outside his immediate circle."
LOL. No, the time has come for Trump to restore the nuclear deal with Iran before the Middle East turns into an inferno.
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But some people DO want to watch the world burn. Some of them even steal the White House to have the perfect vantage point to torch the marble.
The loser SHOULD restore the deal. The only way he'd actually WANT to might be if he can flash his name in giant neons between neon mud flap girls in front of each Iranian building of government.
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This crisis is really Trump helping Bibi get elected in today's election. Both Trump and Bibi want an excuse to attack Iran to look strong and do some damage to Iran's infrastructure both military and nuclear programs.
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"Whether conducted by Houthi rebels in Yemen, Shiite rebels in Iraq or by Iran itself, the drone attacks on Saudi oil facilities early Saturday amount to a sharp provocation against the United States."
I nominate that opening sentence as the most troubling sentence in a Times' Editorial I remember reading.
It implicitly equates an attack against Saudi Arabia with an attack against the United States. That is a neocon-Trump position. It is a very dangerous and wrong position to assert.
It is a wrong position because an attack against Saudi Arabia of any degree is not "a sharp provocation against the United States." Saudi Arabia is not Canada, England, France, Germany... a true US ally. Its value to the US is commercial; as a huge gas station that the US buys oil from.
Saudi Arabia is waging a war in Yemen, and perhaps Houthi rebels conducted the attack. If so, that's not related to the US.
It is a dangerous statement because it will be used by neocons and the Trump administration to claim support for a Mideast war they want to start, whether against Iran or someone else.
I'm sure neocons and the Trump White House will use this Editorial and that statement as propaganda for years to claim support for wars or other military action in the Mideast, increased arms sale to Saudi Arabia and other oil-rich nations, meddling in Mideast nations and affairs of all sorts, and who knows what else.
I'm tremendously troubled to see the Times assert such a broad position.
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"the gauntlet was at Mr. Trump’s feet," No it wasn't. It was at Saudi Arabia's. They just bought $57 billion of our hardware. For what? We have to go in. I don't think so. Maybe they are saving their stuff to hit Israel. Something to contemplate but, by any standard, we ain't got a dog in this fight.
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“It remained unclear for the moment why Iran or one of its proxies had apparently sought so great an escalation of regional tensions at this time.”
You’ve answered that question in the first paragraph: “And at this dangerous moment, President Trump has few options, few allies, a depleted national security team and little credibility.” In this game of international chess, Iran saw an opening and they took full advantage. They realize how weak and incapable Trump really is. They realize that he and his administration are hampered by the presence of officials answering to the job title of “Acting”, “Interim”, or "Unfilled”. They fully understand Trump’s inability to keep the ship of state, or even his own mind, on course. As far as Iran is concerned, there wasn’t going to be a better time.
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Trump wants to meet with the titular head of Iran. He, Trump likes to meet face to face. Well, we saw the results of his meetings with Kim.
And we see the results of Trump's attendance at the G-6 plus a guest.
It would appear that Iran is testing Trump's mettle given the dismissing of an agreement that the other major players stated was in fact being followed.
And Trump, with little if any backing from our alienated allies has little to fall on, and, as the piece states, we have no credible national security apparatus due to the lack of adult leadership.
If Trump/Pompeo choose war I am afraid we will find no allies save perhaps Saudi Arabia. Perhaps.
Maybe if Trump had some sense of diplomacy, some sense of international affairs, this issue could be put to rest. But, that would require the circus ringmaster to eat a little crow and admit he made a mistake-in tossing the agreement.
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Trump needs Saudi guidance because they loaned him a lot of money. There’s a good chance Putin will be on the call as well.
Trump loves his lenders above all else. After all they are lenders of last resort. He’s been cut off by all the normal sources of real estate funding.
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Under no circumstances should the U.S. launch a catastrophic war with Iran. Whoever may be involved, an attack on Saudi Arabia is not an attack on the United States. It was Trump who declared economic war on Iran when he tore up the nuclear agreement and slapped on devastating sanctions.
Showing John Bolton the door was a positive step, and Trump should do the same with Pompeo. We cannot afford to get involved militarily because an all-out war with Iran will make Iraq look like a garden party. Trump would do well to trust his instincts on this and avoid another misguided, bloody M.E. war.
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Why do we have to respond at all? It seems like their problem and they are not a good ally. They seem to be able to lead a war in Yemen.
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When it comes to foreign policy and war we must do what is best for the United States of America. Going to war against Iran would be silly. It would crush our debt to possibly a point of no return not to mention the blood of our soldiers. What would we gain? We have plenty of gas and oil in our own country to the point that this would be a lose lose for everybody.
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The Iranians must really have contempt for Trump to think they can get away with this.
If they do get away with it, we’ll have even fewer allies. Why pay billions to US arm dealers and more millions for the US president personally, only to have half your income demolished with no recourse and no support?
They may decide its better to pay Russia or China for protection.
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@who Iran did not attack the United States. So, given that, why should we be so concerned?
Lastly, it is not just the Iranians who have contempt for Trump. Look inward at our country.
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Dan, the concern is that if we let allies ( or clients ) burn we will not have as many. Also, rivals do not fear reprisal after an attack, we will receive more attacks, and have more war in the end. Maybe all that is acceptable in order to avoid getting involved now, but a decision to do nothing is not free.
@who The Saudis have been bombing Yemen for the past 4 years using predominantly American made aircraft and munitions. Now they have been counter attacked by possibly Iranian (although the country with the most to gain by rising oil prices is Russia) supplied weapons and this is our problem why?
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The Obama Administration's nuclear deal with Iran was designed precisely to avoid these kinds of conflicts. It was imperfect, but it was working. Trump pulled out of the deal, and is now faced with the consequences. Unfortunately, he was incapable of foreseeing those consequences, and is equally incapable of now knowing what to do about it. So he asks Saudi Arabia, not for input but actual direction on what to do. He lights the fuse, then runs away from the danger.
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@jg I have stated for some time that Trump is an arsonist firefighter-starts the fires, shows up to extinguish said fires and does not now how to really put the fires out.
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An uniformed man at the head of our Government who does not trust career experts and with third grade political appointee advisors.
It will be a miracle if the country emerges from this dark period intact.
I hate to lay this on the founders who envisioned a lot of scenarios of the Government going off the rails but did they see this coming?
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@Gary Valan
The Founders did not envision every scenario but they did have a deep understanding of flawed human nature and the uncertainty of circumstance. The 25th Amendment is the answer.
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Let's think about all this for a minute (or less): the Iran-aligned Houthis are fighting to establish control over Yemen. The Saudis are trying to stop them while bombing and starving tens of thousands of Yemeni civilians with the active collaboration of the Trump administration. The Houthis (or maybe even the Iranians) strike back by using drones to attack Saudi oil installations. Our "president" is worried that these attacks will wreak havoc on the world's oil supply but he also offers to use our own reserves to make up for the loss of Saudi oil. So...why is all this a concern of ours? If Trump's sanguinary pals in Riyadh have a beef with Tehran why not let THEM take whatever military action they deem necessary?
Do we have a mutual defense treaty with The Kingdom? (That's a rhetorical question.) In short, how is this any of our business?
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@Stu Freeman. The US has no mutual defense treaty with the Saudis.
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@stu freeman
Trump is indicating that he and Netanyahu want the United States to have a mutual defense treaty with Israel.
Why???
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@Jim Bredfeldt: Um, yes, as per my notation that I was asking a rhetorical question.
Agree on exploring all options, truth be told what does Iran gain from attacking Saudi Oil, these whole thing is shady to say the least, someone or some groups of people are trying all they can to drag the US into another endless war in the Middle East. And it is going to happen no matter who or how we handle it. They will keep trying all options until they achieve these goal, I do not believe that Iran under the stringent sanctions they are currently facing would want a war with the US. It seems like someone wants that country destroyed by US.
17
It’s pretty incredible to think that an American president, whichever party he belonged to during any period of time, has thus far refrained from a retaliatory attack after multiple provocations by Iran. The restraint shown by Trump is pretty incredible. You all love to portray him as a hawk but he appears to be a dove.
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@Kev. If only the State Department, Department of Defense, and National Security bench were professionally vetted & staffed, we could put forward a coherent foreign policy. What we are witnessing here is grade C reality t.v.
3
@Kev Are we supposed to invade them because they shot down an unarmed surveillance drone over their territory? Why is American occupying two of Iraq's neighbors with additional forces in Syria, and constantly threatening them with economic and military ruin? The Iranians have not attacked America. Anyone looks like a dove compared to war-crazed George W. Bush administration!
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@kev
I think you might be confused. I’ve never known of anyone referring to this occupant of the White House as either a hawk or a dove. I have heard referred to as a “bird brain”, though and perhaps that’s the source of confusion?
Seriously, though, this is another episode of action taken without consideration of consequences. The Iran treaty, while imperfect was designed to avoid the situation the Saudis find themselves in.
3
None of this would be happening had Trump remained in the Iran nuclear deal.
A capricious decision by America's utterly capricious Commander-in-Chief incited this escalation in this ill-advised conflict.
If we go to war with Iran, we will end up killing a lot civilians who would like nothing better than to have a restoration of friendly relations with the United States.
We exhausted far too much of America's precious blood and treasure in our last Mideast military adventure. As a nation hemorrhaging debt, a new Mideast military adventure is the last thing that we should be considering.
When the Soviet Union fell, the world breathed a sigh of relief at the thought that the United States was now the last standing superpower. That sigh of relief has now become a sigh of exasperation.
The United States' long-term economic leadership ultimately rests on a respect of its military and political leadership. If nearly two-thirds of Americans cannot respect our current political leadership, why would we expect the world to respect it either?
Let me suggest in the strongest possible terms that this is a moment to ponder what we have become.
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