Bret? Nominate a centrist. Warren is closer to being a centrist than any president in the last fifty years.
Right now:
Our far-right are fascist.
Our center-right are extreme nationalists.
Our center-left are classical conservatives.
Out far-left are moral centrist moderates.
Any objective political compass would put Warren and Sanders barely left of center. A real far left movement would be advocating for forced seizure of property by the working class.
Instead, our “far left” is like “please don’t let our people die in medical poverty please.”
Wake up, Bret!
27
mr stephens- warren doesnt say the system has always been rigged, only that it has become so, and must be returned to a more truly egalitarian system. if you think she is wrong about that, then you are blind as a bat.
24
Bret, what is the elevation of that place in the Seychelles? The way things are going, you might want to find a friend with a place in the mountains...
It would be nice if Republicans would find the spine to step up and nudge Trump aside. Given his increasingly erratic (to be polite) behavior, it may be that restorting to the 25th Amendment will be unavoidably obvious by the end of a Trump second term... an even probably more divisive than an impeachment. Still, that's what it is in there for.
I haven't seen a breakout Democratic candidate yet, but it is still very early. If I'm going to dream big, we could consider, along with getting the money out of politics, putting a time limit on the endless campaign (of course, what would Trump do then to get his crowd rush?).
It seems like prohibiting any campaign activities, on penalty of election disqualification, prior to January of the election year (44 weeks should be -plenty- of time to figure out what someone is like...) might be popular. And as the campaign season drags on, and on, and on, it's an idea that will be more popular with everyone, on all sides.
5
I’m with Bret on this one. Pete is the best candidate and I’m flummoxed more people don’t see it. The Dems desperately need a more centrist option or risk a Trump second term. Warren, while wonderfully intelligent, qualified and impressive dodged a direct question in the debate about payment for her plans: taxes on the middle class! Just say it. Beto did.
If she’s the candidate, Gail, she has my vote but that won’t be enough. And it may be true that I lay in bed at night imagining what Pete would do to Trump in a debate. How I long to see that.
9
Gail tells Bret: "Voting third party is worse than just staying home. It’s like pretending you’re making a choice."
Wrong. Voting third party is voting for Trump. Just as staying home is voting for Trump.
If Stephens is serious about helping us rid our country of his noxious, obscene presidency, he needs to vote for the Democratic candidate no matter who it is. And that also goes for the rest of us.
41
Everything that Brett Stevens says about Elizabeth Warren in this article is false. One more piece of evidence that most of the people who object to Warren believe delusional things about her.
1) As she has frequently said, Warren‘s life story proves that the system is rigged now, but didn’t used to be. Her mother was able to support her entire family and make a down payment on a house with a minimum wage job. Nobody could do that now. That is why it is false to say her politics are all about tearing the system down. She is trying to restore the system back to the days when it did work, using the techniques of Teddy Roosevelt and others.
2) Her plan for introducing Medicare for all is designed to be slow and gradual, and includes fixing aspects of Obamacare that are not working now.
3) Warren‘s wealth tax will pay for all of the new benefits she is promising. If you go to her webpage you will see she has the numbers to prove that, topped up backed up by sign statements from top rank economists. if you think there is something wrong with her numbers, then prove it.
40
Mr. Stephens, you have no understanding of Ms. Warren's platform. You pick and choose random words from her speeches and string them together and present them as fact.
What she means when she says "the system is rigged" is that the system benefits only the wealthiest among us. If you're rich enough, you can buy a politician (thanks in part to citizens united), hire the best lawyers to avoid punishment for your crimes—no matter how heinous, you can get into the best schools whether or not you're academically qualified, and should you become ill you have the best physicians and surgeons at your disposal.
Greater equity benefits an entire society because healthy, educated people will create a stronger workforce, which then strengthens the middle class. And taking money out of the political equation allows elected officials to focus on the needs of their entire electorate, not merely those who paid to get them elected.
Frankly, Mr. Stephens, the NYT needs to stop publishing your meritless right-wing propaganda.
29
Um, Bret? Are you aware that the corporate sector is paying a near-historic low percentage of federal tax revenue? If you did know that, why would you say this:
"The idea that Jeff Bezos and a few other billionaires and millionaires are going to pay for it all just doesn’t add up mathematically."
Bring back corporate tax burdens of the 1950s on corporations and the wealthy and we're probably good. You know, invest in civilization?
35
Remember this day Bret when Trump is re-elected and further erodes our democracy and standing in the world, and maybe even life on this planet as we know it because you and folks like you don’t have the sense to see Elizabeth Warren is light years better than 4 or anymore years of Trump.
29
Bret Stephens (are we sure it's not Bart Simpson?) wants the candidate he regards as “nice, competent, unifying and nonexhausting”, who he thinks is Biden, but sounds more like Jimmy Carter.
Will someone notify the Times columnists that Hillary won by 2,800,000 votes even though voters were assured by every media known to us that Hillary was a 99 and 44/100 pct sure thing? How many people stayed home because the election was a certainty?
And, who's surprised that Bret/Bart can't understand Sen. Warren's plans. Shouldn't have skipped those arithmetic and economics classes, Bret.
20
Bret, because he is a mayor of a small city which is not enough to be President. One of the worse aspect of Trump’s election is that anyone thinks they could be President. Obama was barely qualified. It takes more than being a good speaker. Compare to Biden, Harris.
3
After reading more on Elizabeth Warren's impressive career as a distinguished law professor together with the weight of her recognized expertise in law and economics, I suggest that Bret Stephens grossly underestimates her originality by simply labeling her as a sycophant of Bernie Sanders (without the Brooklyn charm, indeed). The fact that they may have some similar proposed policies (the president begins with proposed policies that Congress and the administration hone to workable realities) has little to do with the independence and depth of knowledge that Elizabeth Warren demonstrates. If all that expertise is off-putting it has more to do with perceived personality than qualifications to be President of the United States.
17
Bret Stephens, who once called for a pre-emptive strike on North Korea, doesn’t deserve a platform on the NYT. If you want to highlight a rightwing perspective to appear “fair and balanced”, fine, slum it! But get someone who can do a better job pretending to be an intellectual.
27
Elizabeth Warren scares Bret Stephens? Bret Stephens has called for the United States to sink the Iranian navy. He has reassured us that we need not fear global warming because we will "innovate" our way out of it. He evidently doesn't think that the institution of slavery was a defining feature of the history of the United States. I'm scared that this guy has been given a perch at the NY Times.
27
The nearest the system came to working for the general public was in the twenty years following WWII when the nation felt indebted to the millions of servicemen, servicewomen and their families who sacrificed for the cause. Outside that period the moneyed interests reigned supreme and grabbed the majority of the proverbial pie for themselves. Its long past time to reset the scales of prosperity and justice.
20
Since Bret Stephens is afraid of Elizabeth Warren I'll back her. Maybe, as the anti-trump, she can undo some of the damage.
To participate in the caucuses I need to be registered in the Democratic party, instead of being non-partisan. I'll switch tomorrow.
22
Come on man! Brett is so out of touch with reality that he sounds like a Trumpist. Any vote that doesn’t go against Trump for a viable (I.e. Democratic) candidate is a vote for Trump. If he thinks he can survive in the Seychelles he better check the elevation. Trump will have them inundated before the end of his second term if you don’t vote him out of office. Brett, you need to consult with a few climate scientists!
15
The thing about Pete Buttigieg is that it's impossible to simultaneously remember how to spell his name and how to pronounce. I repeatedly find myself thinking "So that's how it's spelled!" or "So that's how it's pronounced"!
And the term "ageist" just doesn't work in print, especially if you've taken German. "A ghost? Where?!"
4
Bret said, “We’ve tried “scary” long enough. How about “nice, competent, unifying and nonexhausting” for a change?”
I agree, but Obama’s not running this time.
15
Bret, remember what Ralph Nader did to Al Gore?
18
Okay, it's unlikely the Chinese will bomb Pearl Harbor, but there have already been close calls in the South China Sea. China is hopping mad about the sale of jet fighters to Taiwan, and the history of trade wars clearly shows they sometimes turn into shooting ones.
3
His thousands of lies are not a sign of transparency. There are signs of incompetence and lack of his ability o be honest. I remember when Kerry was called a flip-flipper over one issue. Trump is truly 1,000 times worse. As president, you set a goal and follow it. You don’t do one thing while you staff is broadcasting another thing to the world. All it brings is inconsistency and instability. May work in business, but it has no place on governing.
11
A Conservatives definition of a Centrist:
1. One who maintains the current status quo on guns
2. A person who waffles between whether a woman has control over her reproductive rights or the men around her.
3. Somebody who allows Israel to expand its settlement in the occupied territory while simultaneously making silly noises about a peaceful 2 state solution
4. Somebody who believes all Muslims and Latinos are horrible people but who is afraid to say it for fear of being called a bigot.
5. A person who likes Government to take a more a proactive stance in healthcare management but defers to the private health insurance lobby.
6. Somebody who professes a love for NPR but is prefers listening to Rush Limbaugh while on their morning drives.
7. Somebody who is confused between fiscal and monetary policy that they refuse to talk about any policy at all.
14
She should have asked him if there were any of the women candidates who wouldn’t drive him to vote third party. His opposition sounds like routine, boring sexism to me.
21
Joe Biden all the way! If the press and other candidates would stop picking unfairly on him....he'd be the one to trump Trump! Let's give him support not tear him down. I'll never forget or forgive Ted Kennedy tearing at Jimmy Carter to win the nomination of the democratic party and ousting Carter....thereby paving the way for Reagan!
3
Brett also would have avoided joining the French resistance in hot southern France in Ww 2. Too many communists for him.
21
I’m with Bret. Pete is the best candidate by far. Only he can beat Trump. Pete, the dragon slayer! Any other candidate and we hand the tantruming toddler another four years. Perish the thought.
2
Third party votes are one reason we are now living in the land of Donald Trump Crazy Talk. Joe Biden’s worst gaffe is nothing compared to the nutty stuff we hear almost daily from DT.
12
My sense is Bret (and others with similarly specious arguments as his) would be more apt to vote for Warren were she an “Ejiah” instead of an “Elizabeth.” I’m hope I’m wrong, but I feel I’m right.
13
Instead of blah blah blah about mean Donald, please explain what the US should do about China, a country that is more criminal than civilized and one that no recent President has even tried to discipline. East to be a critic but tough to take action.
1
"Bret: I don’t really understand why he [Pete B.] hasn’t risen higher in the polls." Answer: Bret, do you honestly think America--41% of whom are in your Republican party--are going to vote for a gay man with a husband into office? To quote Seinfeld, "...not that there's anything wrong with that."
4
"Her core conviction is that “the system is rigged” … yet her own life story, … gives the lie to that argument." Hogwash, Mr. Stephens! One rags-to-riches story does not refute a system that works against the majority of un-rich people. E.W. spent years studying bankruptcy and saw how society rolled over those without resources. Her story does NOT "give the lie" to the evidence she acquired.
Stop spouting nonsense.
18
Mayor Pete is the only candidate who can beat Trump. When he gets in a debate with a half dozen others, his support will rise. And about that recession, if it comes not only will Trump desert, but all GOP, hypocritical evangelicals, red state deplorables, Log Cabin Republicans, and anyone else who supports this despicable man.
2
Why should Elizabeth Warren temper her fair and equitable message to appeal to 70,000 White voters in Wisconsin, Michigan, and Pennsylvania who embraced the hate-filled racism of the buffoon in White House back in 2016?
Those folks are immoral and unethical. Let us not stoop to their deplorable level.
Rather, let us turn out more suburban women, African-Americans, Asian, Hispanic, and Millennial voters and we will swamp the haters.
Besides, the days of the backward-thinking rural White voter are demographically numbered. It's a mathematical certainty!
14
A couple of things:
1. Bret, you are asking the French what they think of Trump? Who Cares, its France. They are a mess financially & politically.
2. Bret, you are in the South of France and probably headed to Monaco- Are you a white male of privilege?
Bret: You were much better at the WSJ.
2
I see a Leader with courage and experience in Joe Sestak, USN Vice Admiral, Pennsylvania congressional representative. Here's the NYT brief
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/23/us/joe-sestak-2020-candidates.html
Gail, I want you to know that I love reading your columns and the humor with which you give Mr Stephens benign grief... I would probably throw something at him out of frustration and walk out (tongue-in-cheek, NYT comment-moderator.... I’m kidding, of course!)
This sentence needs to be a headline....
“... he’s going to retreat to a monastery to do penance for his sins and take a vow of silence until Thanksgiving of 2020.”
I wish.
And agree about Mayor Pete, too young and would take a while to have that gravitas, not that Old Joe has them despite the experience but he’s a decent man.
In truth, I’m for Warren.
She can adapt and she listens.
Folks don’t know how resilient she is and how clear sighted.
But, to give Mr Stephen his due, Mayor Pete would indeed make mincemeat of Trump in a debate.
However, what Warren would do to him in a similar debate would be Epic, a monumental moment which will go down in our history as “The Moment the Bully got Smashed and simply Keeled over.”
6
Brett,
You know part of the reason that Pete is rising higher is that he's gay. To pretend that isn't there isn't respectful, it's disingenuous. His qualifications are superb and his demeanour impeccable. His husband is lovely and charming, but America isn't ready for a FMOTUS (FiMOTUS?). The Democratic Party isn't ready to take that kind of risk with so much at stake. Look at the backlash after the first black President.
1
Mr. Stephens believes that he has successfully rebutted Ms. Warren's criticism that the "system is rigged" by noting: "...Yet her own life story, as a child of the lower-middle class who wound up being a law professor at Harvard and then a United States Senator, gives the lie to that argument."
However, he hasn't. Rather than rebutting her argument, he has instead illustrated yet again the general bankruptcy of his own logic.
A few brief observations will establish that:
(1) Ms. Warren went to school 30 years ago. What does her individual success then have to do with the way things are now for the great majority of citizens. This is equivalent to arguing in 1945 that Hitler was a successful leader because he succeeded in annexing the Sudetenland in '36.
(2) Mr. Stephen's attack is a classical example of the ad hominen fallacy, "tu quoque", "... that attacks a person by focusing on their past words or actions instead of the veracity of their current claims."
(3) The world is awash with studies that back up her claim with detailed statistics and data. Now Mr. Stephens has a penchant, like his political party, for dismissing these inconvenient facts. However, he should at least do as his mentor, DJT, and lie about them. Tell us that the economy is booming along at 4% growth despite the GAO putting it at 2.5%.
Do us all a favor, Mr. Stephens, replacing his active verb with "retire", follow Ebenezer Scrooge's initial recommendation for the surplus population.
8
That fawning Netanyahu apologist Bret Stephens sees himself as “middle of the road” shows how far into the right hand shoulder the middle of the road has fallen.
And if Warren is the nominee, and loses, especially while winning the popular vote, I will make it my mission in life to never let Stephens forget his intractability.
10
Dr. Mr Stephens, you are part of the problem. Chances are, none of us will get to vote for our ideal candidate in 2020. But we all recognize that any of the Democratic candidates are better than the ignorant misogynist racist you will likely help elect. Like the people who voted for Ralph Nader in 2000, or Jill Stein in 2016, simply said, you're unexcusable.
9
Gee, Brett. What would you do with a Warren/Mayor Pete ticket?
4
“...if he wants to be the next generation’s Joe Biden, he could keep running until 2060...
Gail, we’ll know he’s ready, when he goes home to the wrong South Bend...
As it turns out, there’re 8 of them in the continental US – and here’s the list...
• Arkansas
• Georgia
• Indiana
• Louisiana
• Nebraska
• Pennsylvania
• Texas
• Washington
But, here’s the amazing thing – if Pete prevails, half of the states with a South Bend within their borders would have sent a person to the Presidency, in the last half-century...
Of the four who didn’t bend south – Three of them came the states with the three largest cities in the country...
So – while it may not be Pete’s time...
I say give each South Bend its own electoral vote – no, make that two...
It doesn’t get any more fair and middling than that...
Metaphorically, of course...
Literally, I’d give them two Senators each...
Don’t want to vex AOC, these days...
PS
As you’re continually finding out, Bret – it’s lonely in the middle...
But I’ve invited Liz to speak at our next centrist’s convention...
Going to hold it on some farm in Bethel – going to pack the place historically...
Only thing - as it turns out, there’re 34 of them in the continental US...
(towns named Bethel – the number of centrists is less than that, according to your colleague Michelle)
I’ll spare you the list...
1
Any centrist but washed up Biden. Mayor Pete for me!
4
Brett, for a supposedly intelligent individual, you show a remarkable lack of strength to break free of the shackles of your conservatism. You should be able to distinguish right from wrong and you and the republican party have been overwhelmingly wrong for the last fifty years, culminating in a situation where your party has elevated a reptilian sociopath to a position in which he is able to damage our country and the majority of our people. Yet you persist in telling Dems what to do and how the system which has been rigged by dark money, is not rigged. Why don’t you try using your intelligence for the benefit of millions of people, rather than your own.
6
Bret, the Seychelles will soon be totally underwater, so go visit while you still can. As for Elizabeth Warren, you must have her confused with Bernie. She is not advocating all those free things you mention, at least in any of the reports I have read. She actually has been taking about upgrading Obamacare and employer sponsored plans. But how many people realize that medical insurance through an employer doesn't mean the employer is paying for it. In most cases, the premiums are deducted from the employees paycheck and belonging to a "group" gives them a lower rate than if they were on their own!
6
Trump was not elected by a fair vote. The real fable is that we have a functioning democracy with an electoral system that actually works. We do not. Too many journalists and too many among the voting public continue to believe in and/or promote this fable even in light of reality. Even Aesop would know this as a classic fable.
4
Bret,
If you don’t like Trump, and prefer to nominate someone else to counter him as the GOP nominee, by all means. What I can’t stand is the presumption that Democrats are somehow responsible to pick a candidate that appeals to the other party. Democrats can pick their own candidate, Republicans can pick theirs. Otherwise we have only one party.
8
I wish people who don’t want Trump for a second term would vote for the Democratic candidate no matter who it is. Put the country ahead of one’s personal beliefs and feelings for once. I firmly believe there will be so much clean-up to do here and in the world there won’t be much time to actually get a lot of changes enacted through Congress. If one truly thinks Trump is dangerous for our democracy, don’t play the game of voting third party.
10
Two voices with such a huge platform, intentionally, omitting Bernie Sanders in most of the conversation about the Democratic Party. They did it last time too, and were upset when their candidate lost to Trump. Bret Stephens calls Bernie revolutionary. Is it that radical to advocate for a system already in place in Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Germany, England, France, etc? Is health care for all such a revolutionary concept? Is it so scary to bail out students while the government bailed out Wall Street in 2008? Why is it OK that 3 people in the United States own more wealth than the bottom half? But let’s not ask these questions, because if you do, you’re labeled revolutionary, and revolution makes you think of the guillotine and Stalin so it’s the perfect label to use when you intentionally want to scare-monger and dissuade.
9
Bret lives and votes in New York. New York will go for who ever is the Democratic nominee. This must make it easy for Bret to make a cynical personal choice.
I hope the farmers and manufacturers in the true contested states make better choices.
9
Like everyone else I've talked to who is over 65, like me, getting on Medicare was a life saver. My employer canceled my group health insurance and I was thrown into the individual market. My costs went through the roof. Now they are more under control, and I'm not arguing with my insurer over every bill, every pill, every doctor visit. Medicare for whoever wants it, as a beginning, is something insurance companies don't like because they KNOW how many people will love it and they will lose $$.
11
Man am I tired of people like Stephens pretending Warren is out of the mainstream. 81% of Americans support Medicare4All. There isn't a single issue on which she represents the minority position.
24
Republicans always like to threaten democrats that they'll lose if they fail to run a centrist candidate. But Hillary Clinton was a centrist candidate, so was Mitt Romney, so was John McCain and John Kerry and Al Gore. All of them lost to candidates who ran more polarizing campaigns. Why? Possibly because the press pays more attention to candidates with more extremist views. They just get more coverage and there's no such thing as bad press. There are moderate centrists running for the democratic nomination: Amy Klobuchar and Kirsten Gillibrand, but their campaigns are withering on the vine because the NY Times (and everyone else) won't give them any coverage. Centrists don't make for exciting copy, so our politics become more and more polarized.
5
@Martin Goodall
Statistically-minded people like to group things together to draw conclusions, but that mostly only works when grouping things that are fundamentally similar.
The question is not "can a certain type of candidate win?", it is "can a certain candidate beat Trump?". Is Trump similar to other Republicans or incumbents? Not really.
Since we cannot use statistics in the sense that Trump is unique, we should fall back on game theory. Game theory says capture the median voter, either through centrism or getting higher turnout from your partisans than the other guy.
Since Trump drives turnout for both sides, has a very motivated base, has alienated a significant slice of voters near the center and just barely won against a terrible centrist candidate in 2016, it sure seems like centrism is the way to go in 2020.
2
Bret Stephens learned everything he needed to know about economics from catchy quotes from Ronald Reagan 40 years ago. No need to let pesky things like facts change his mind now.
Economic systems naturally tend toward corruption, monopoly and servitude. Markets only exist because of rules that allow them to function. History shows us that capitalism only functions when a government guarantees it. "Deregulation" has not meant eliminating regulations, just rewriting them to benefit donors. These changes have clearly distorted the functioning of our economy. It is fine that Mr. Stephens refuses to deal with the actual substance of Ms. Warren's proposes, but he doesn't need a platform to spread his ignorance.
12
What is Elizabeth Warren's "PLAN" for regaining the majority in the Senate?
No plan can work unless the Senate turns. Everything is in doubt. Cancelling student debt? Medicaid for All? No thanks.
I still like Mayor Pete.
4
Hey, this is amazing. I'm agreeing with Bret Stephens more than Gail Collins! Never thought I'd see that happen. But I do think Warren is too far left. And I do think Pete Buttigieg is the smartest one in the room this go-round. And as far as age goes, Warren is too old. The Presidency is not a job for people in their 70's and 80's, especially if we want a two-term President.
But disagree with Bret on the point of voting third party. For heaven's sake, vote Democrat this election, regardless of who runs.
8
Plenty of candidates that I don't like much - only one that is literally destroying America and will continue to do so rapidly if elected. There's no question, no contest, no third party tantrum protest vote worth returning Trump to office.
13
Why should a conservative Republican like Bret tell Dems who they should nominate. If he had any sense he never would have voted for Trump to being with. Elizabeth Warren is proposing high goals knowing there will be compromise as usual when actually working with Congress--unlike the current occupant of the WH.
10
Bernie tried that anticipatory compromise tactic in 2016. It didn’t work. We need to hear and see the compromise and delayed gratification up front, real time. By we, I mean the non- millennials. We understand patience and endurance. WE will support a realistic agenda.
1
Concerning Stephens disingenuous critique of Warren's healthcare proposal, she has NOT articulated any details yet. But I will note that Medicare already covers about half of the medical expenditures in the country, and there is a large private sector component as co-insurance or Medicare Advantage. Not to mention 100s of millions satisfied customers/recipients. Isn't that worth a closer look to cover the rest of the nation?
The devil will be in the details, and I don't think we will hear them until Warren grabs the nomination.
4
Okay, there's a certain bit of progress discernible in Mr. Stephens's declaring for a third candidate rather than vote for Warren or Sanders. At least his Republican vote will be meaningless, as opposed to actually negative. Since his opinion pieces tend to be both meaningless and negative, I'm calling it a win!
6
Warren is already edging toward the center by connecting with key Democrats in Congress, & she can confirm her left-center position by selecting a reasonably moderate running mate such as Bennet of Colorado or Brown of Ohio.
3
I don't understand Mr. Stephens' concern about Elizabeth Warren. She's smart, organized and clear, good traits in any president, especially after Trump. But like Ms. Collins, I'll vote for whichever Democrat wins the nomination, even if I have reservations about that individual. We still have some good people in the race who so far have polled less than Biden, Warren and Sanders, too. Support the one you like best.
9
@Barbara
"I don't understand Mr. Stephens' concern about Elizabeth Warren."
It is greed. He doesn't want his taxes to go back to 2016 levels.
2
@Mike
That's rather simplistic. What's your evidence?
If you vote for a third party candidate, please just admit you are voting for Trump.
371
@Meg
Thank You!
20
@Meg Assuming Stephens is registered to vote in NY, his 3d party vote probably won't matter. Different story for anyone in a swing state.
15
@Meg Yep. Yours is the first comment, at the top. No need to read further.
12
Bret is two or three bowls into the Republican kool-aid, which was probably spiked with opiates from J&J. Pretending that Warren's and Trump's claim that the system is rigged is equivalent is laughably disingenuous. One of them is sincere, and actually has policy ideas to fix it, the other is just gas-lighting his base and blaming immigrants and Muslims. It's a populist claim for sure, but that doesn't mean it isn't true. I, for one, prefer the non-White nationalist version though.
9
Poor Brett, going to throw his vote away, then complain for the next four years.
7
Mr. Buttigieg appears to be an erudite, calm, former Rhodes scholar who has publicly accepted responsibility for the failures of his administration, who volunteered for the military in order to serve his country, and who projects an air of quiet competence and confidence. In short, he has no chance whatsoever of becoming President of the United States in 2020.
4
Wanna defeat Trump? Biden-Abrams 2020. Done.
1
Elizabeth Warren is a Capitalist who does't like crony Capitalism. The system is rigged and she made her way up the income ladder because of programs that she had access to that no longer exist.
7
I love how easily Bret dismisses Warren's plans with a "it won't work". And we're all just supposed to go along with his statement...because.... I guess he says it won't work so he's right? This isn't the first time he dismisses Democrat's plans simply by saying "it won't work". I regularly see these statements from him in this space. Forgive me if I don't take Bret Stephen's word that a Democrat's plan "won't work."
6
Mr. Stephens, are you serious?
Elizabeth Warren is proposing nothing any more radical than what already exists in France, the country you are apparently so happy to visit on vacation.
Meanwhile, you know as well as I do that her more radical proposals are not going to pass Congress anytime soon. In the meantime, however, she will be carrying out her job in a rational, stable manner, repairing Trump-inflicted damage every day she is in office.
So what you are saying is, you will not vote for someone who asks America to think about mainstream progressive policies, despite the fact that those policies will not be enacted anytime soon, and despite the fact that she will restore honor and rationality to our country.
This is indefensible. You are part of the problem. Have fun in the Seychelles, which will soon be underwater thanks to the the President you might help re-elect with your third-party vote.
Your stance is inexcusable.
822
@Wesley Clark, MD, MPH "Elizabeth Warren is proposing nothing any more radical than what already exists in France"
Yes. Ditto Bernie Sanders.
35
@Wesley Clark, MD, MPH Thank you! You said that perfectly.
38
@Wesley Clark, MD, MPH
In 2016 I said to my wife I wish Elizabeth Warren could be the first female President. I voted for Hillary, but wasn't a fan. I'm just nervous Warren may struggle in those critical swing states that anointed Trump.
The hard lesson of 2016 is the popular vote is irrelevant. The only number that counts is 270 in the Electoral College.
30
Just because Warren was able to become a Harvard professor and a Senator does not come close to proving that the existing system doesn’t strongly favor the rich (and if you’re white and male as I am, frankly that helps too). That’s like saying that the successes of Obama or Beyoncé prove that racism isn’t a significant problem in the U.S.
Of course many people with tremendous wealth and power want the system to work in their favor, are often willing to use their money and influence to help make that happen, and sometimes they succeed. How could Mr. Stephens deny this?
5
Warren was doing great with her I’m a Cherokee flying under the radar until DT started calling her out on it. Amazingly it turns out she kept this fraud going to get ahead in law school, get ahead at Harvard, U. Penn. I find her an embarrassment and people who play it straight should feel they are being taken as fools.
2
@Jerry Davenport
It wasn’t “calling her out.” It was just a convenient excuse to give her a nickname.
1
"Her core conviction is that “the system is rigged” — a view she happens to share with Trump, even as they differ on the details of the supposed rigging. Yet her own life story, as a child of the lower-middle class who wound up being a law professor at Harvard and then a United States Senator, gives the lie to that argument."
Hey Bret, Elizabeth Warren is 70 years old. For reference, the Civil War ended 154 (?) years ago. Systems change, as we can clearly tell from the level of inequality in this country. Sometimes Bret makes me laugh from the sheer stupidity of the arguments he makes, but this one is really something. I'm not even going to mention that probably less than 99% of the people in this country have the work ethic or intellect of Elizabeth Warren.
8
I don't think Biden's talk of assassination was a gaffe at all. It was deadly serious, as any talk of assassination must be. I think he was projecting very real concerns, concerns that I share and have done since the primary season began. Trump's supporters have already shown their willingness to direct deadly force against his perceived enemies. The Democratic candidate will pose a very real threat to Trump. We've been celebrating too many 50th anniversaries not to be viscerally aware of lives lost to assassination five decades ago. It seems miraculous that Obama survived his presidency in a nation riven by racial and political hatred. In the age of Trump, that hatred pours across the land like molten lava.
9
I’ll make a bet with Bret that Trump doesn’t debate Pete Buttigieg or any other Democratic candidate. The very idea suggests he would engage in a fair fight, and we know for certain he’s not that way. I reference his undisclosed tax returns as an example. Trump only likes contests where he has an unfair advantage, and most of the Democrats would shred him in a debate setting.
11
I'm done with Bret. Stating you will vote 3rd party in 2020 is the same as saying he will vote for trump so the chaos can continue for another four years.
If we think trump is bad now just imagine how trump would behave if he didn't have to worry about being reelected.
14
I don't see why Bret Stevens feels that "you can’t just get rid of employer-provided health insurance in favor of some form of “Medicare for All” without creating gigantic dislocations with immediate costs for millions of people lasting for years." How will replacing a policy which the employee frequently has to pay part of the premium on, which has co-pays and annual deductibles be worse than a policy which has no co-pays or deductibles. This is true even if there is a modest payroll tax as there is in Canada. I have been told by visiting Canadians that many employers voluntarily pay the employee portion. I really don't see how this is worse.
1
That Bret Stephens states that he would consider voting for a third-party candidate speaks volumes about his thinking, and tells me all I ever want to hear from him. But I guess the NYT needs a straw man for Gail Collins to giggle with.
11
Brett: "I don’t really understand why he (Mayor Pete) hasn’t risen higher in the polls."
Are you kidding me right now? We Democrats watched former Obama voters switch to the man whose entire campaign started with birtherism and was fueled by resentment of immigrants and people of color. He's got the Evangelicals in his corner 100%
We are TERRIFIED that we can't win unless we have an old white guy who doesn't happen to have a husband.
Why is Brett still in denial?
5
Amy Klobuchar seems to be the only sane candidate, the rest over the top way too progressive for most of the country. Ami has more brains then all the rest combined. She’d make a terrific president.
5
@Jerry Davenport - She can't manage to keep the same staff. High turnover is indicative of serious problems.
1
The system IS rigged, and the life history of any one person doesn’t argue otherwise. Think Citizens United. Think corporate lobbying dominance. Think corporations denying climate change to benefit themselves. Think roundheeled politicians, especially Republicans, willing to do anything (in any position) for corporate dollars. Think revolving door. Think gerrymandering. Think vote suppression.
Think of the result: the important issues that polls show Americans support but politicians, especially Republicans, successfully deny them - like meaningful gun laws, climate action, environmental protections, better and cheaper health care.
Our system is not only rigged, but rigged in the most important, central ways. The rigging we have is the gift that keeps on rigging.
4
Warren knows that she's the exception to the rule: yes, the system is rigged, but sometimes people make it through anyway. There are millions of other people who don't. Her mere existence doesn't somehow prove that the system isn't rigged.
4
Bret Stephens seems to have a rather truncated understanding of what "capitalism" is. Elizabeth Warren wants a capitalism that is well-regulated, softened and mitigated by necessary social programs, and that acknowledges the debt it owes to the rest of society. In other words, sane capitalism, of the kind quite common in much of Europe and that is being pursued in other parts of the world, where the failure of American-style neoliberalism is widely acknowledged. Stephens is an unfortunate product of American conservatism. which is dogmatic, rigid and incapable of learning any fact that is inconvenient to the ideology.
6
I respectfully disagree with Gail. We have had numerous old and not so old people with lots or minimal government experience elected President. None of these things matter unless they have the temperament, intelligence, and the ability to clearly and calmly articulate one's policies. These are some of the reasons why Mayor Pete has won over people. I agree with Brett. There is no one else who can make mincemeat of Trump other than Mayor Pete. Unfortunately, many people hold his youth against him even though he is more mature than many older than him. As for his mayoral experience, he has boots-on-the-ground experience unlike senators and house of reps. He understands how Washington laws will translate to the cities.
1
Judging by the comments on this board and by the hyperbole that Mr. Stephens spews about Warren and Sanders, not to mention his exaltation over an inexperienced small city mayor who handled his race riots poorly, perhaps this country is deserving of four more years of Trump. It may take another decade to displace the people who vacation in Southern France from their one percent towers. And maybe, just maybe the grid will get overheated and they'll have to put up with a fan to cool off.
Gail, why are you so dead set against hearing the "minor" candidates? So far, they have been about the only ones with anything interesting to say: Inslee, Gabbard, Yang and even Williamson, as well as Castro, Booker, and, yes, DeBlasio. I may not agree with everything they are saying, but they are bringing up point blank issues that need to be heard, and even more, need to be addressed, but which the frontrunners would rather dodge. While you and the rest of the "pundit" class hold your noses up to them. I say let's hear more from the minors.
1
Warren is staking out her initial positions on a host of issues, with the expectation of moving closer to the center as negotiations commence. This is a sensible strategy we call "compromise."
I'm not surprised so many can't realize this, given Obama's insistence on giving away the store from day 1 and having nowhere else to negotiate to, or Trump's inability to make a deal on literally anything.
2
I'm with Bret on this. I won't vote for Sanders or Warren. If the Democrats feel they can do without moderates like me--so be it. I would like to see the no chancers drop out and throw their support to a more moderate candidate like Booker, or Harris, or Mayor Pete. My guess is that most of them would do just that.
2
I would love to let Mr. Stephens know what I think of his arguments, but he would likely email my boss.
11
Bluntly, voting third party is voting for Trump, which is voting for stupid.
7
Bret - If Warren does get the nomination, please please please vote for her. And using your influence, encourage others to do so as well. You may not agree with all of the policies she has proposed, but she is qualified. And she won't send the country into ruin as a second Trump term would. No third party votes! It is a vote for Trump.
5
It’s as simple as this Bret. A vote for a 3rd party candidate is a vote to allow Trump to further destroy our nation. You should know this by now. This isn’t the time for a “principled” vote; this is a luxury we can’t afford.
5
I love how Bret apparently thinks that everyone of Warren’s ideas will automatically become law if she wins. Face it, these Republican anti Trumpers will only vote democratic if the Dems nominate a Republican.
6
I can’t possibly tolerate another four years of Trump. Luckily, I have the means to relocate to another country. Perhaps, Norway which has plenty of gas and oil, but uses mostly electric power and sells its fossil fuels to the rest of the world. Yes, I know Norway can’t hide from global warming, but I will take my chances. I would rather look at Edvard Munch’s “Scream” painting every day in Norway than to do so myself in the USA as my reaction to Trump’s utterings.
6
Bret said he can't understand why Buttigieg isn't polling higher. He was kidding, right? It does not take a genius to understand why Buttigieg isn't polling higher
4
I also support Mayor Pete and he will make a great President - later. He appeals to white voters but has almost no base with the Democrat minority voters. Being a mayor is as close as you can get to your constituents, for better or worse. He doesn't have the support of his own hometown minority citizens. Buttigieg has a great background, but he still needs to pay his political dues. Mayor, Senator, Govenor - just more.
3
How about Warren/Buttigieg
4
I would have thought that Mr. Stephens and his ilk would have learned their lesson by now but alas those who refuse to look at recent history are bound to repeat it.
Trump is a real and present danger to our very system of government. Whether this one is too liberal or that one is too old or too young are considerations we can not afford.
This election will be a binary choice between the chaos, confusion and confrontation of the Trump dictatorship and the hope for better, imbodied in whoever the democratic candidate will be. To stay at home or to cast your vote for some third party candidate is defying reality and helping to reelect Trump.
We need people to stand up Mr. Stephens and not go hide in the corner when you don't get your way.
Mr. Stephens is mistaken, misguided and, like Trump, puts his own petty political philosophy ahead of the interests of our nation.
10
Hard to know where to start. This idea that Elizabeth Warren benefited from the system she wants to change is specious. Her life story was made possible by a system that Republicans have spent forty years dismantling. The things that were available to her are not available to young people of the current generation. That's her core message. The fact that Mr Stephens doesn't want to hear it doesn't make it untrue.
Then there's the whole "We’ve tried 'scary' long enough" nonsense. There hasn't been a single "scary" Democratic presidential nominee in my lifetime. HRC is about as establishment as anything gets. Obama was so scary he got elected twice. Gore won the popular vote. What are you talking about, "scary?"
The only people who need to be scared of Elizabeth Warren are the people who believe that their wealth and power entitle them to run roughshod over the rest of the populace, the environment, and whatever or whoever else they please. If you're one of those people, Mr Stephens, then you ARE the problem.
15
No doubt the cumulative cost of Warren's proposals will be expensive, but at least they are meant to improve the lives of all Americans.
Contrast that with Trump's tax cuts, and the astronomical bloat in the military budget (all that hardware is outmoded because it won't protect us against cyberwarfare, and we don't need 800+military installations around the planet).
We need to change our spending priorities to make the dollars work for the citizens who are actually paying them, and for the poor who don't make enough to pay income tax even though they're working two or three jobs.
7
If only we all could have a Plan B that includes a retreat to the Seychelles if things get worse.
But we can't, so we're going to stay here and work our way to something better.
6
People are commenting that we should "listen to Bret." I am listening ... and his words are inauthentic. He will never vote for a Democrat. He can suggest that he would vote for Pete. He will not. Do you wonder how I know that? Because we are in treacherous times. We don't have the luxury of not voting. A non-vote is a vote for Trump. And Stephens knows that.
Another commenter asked Bret to "vote his heart." He will. He's telling us so, by manufacturing excuses against the Democrat currently gaining traction.
There is no choice here. We need a president with self control and a neocortex. It's not a high standard. Is Stephens telling us that Warren is not qualified? No. He's telling us he is a Republican and will put party (and his Seychelles-dwelling friend's wealth) over country.
13
I'll just say what everyone's thinking: even bedbugs know that if you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen.
I'm sure there are many people who both deserve and would love to have a platform at the Times if it's just too tough for Stephens.
15
Bret, I’m afraid I just can’t agree with your choice of a third party vote. This is not a normal presidential election year. Trump could very well win a second term. Do you truly think that our democracy could withstand that? Most of us know that a third party candidate has absolutely no chance of winning the presidency so voting for a third party candidate is generally considered a protest vote or a vote of conscience. It makes you feel good and maybe even a little superior. However, that assumes a normal presidential election year with traditional candidates. I reiterate, this is not a normal presidential election year. If you believe that Trump is mentally unwell or morally unfit, as you said recently, then you have a duty to help ensure his defeat. A third party vote may have unintended harmful consequences. You have one vote. Don’t waste it. I for one intend to vote for the Democratic Party nominee whoever she or he may be.
9
Sometimes, it is not about who you vote for, but who you vote against. 2020 will be one of those elections.
#anyonebuttrump2020
11
The country needs to recover from Trump's chaotic America First agenda and his GOP engineered tax cut for the rich and powerful. Overhauling our crumbling infrastructure would have been a better investment of the 2 trillion$ we showered on the Koch's and Walton families. Restoring in our relations with our traditional allies will give America the clout he needs to rein in China, Russia and Iran as our alliances have always been our real power. We can nuke the world and invade any country we want but soft power runs the world not chaos the Trump M.O. . More chaos in massive change of government would not help a gradual change improving health care and gun control would be doable even with McConnell the grim reaper serving the donor class.
2
Just because a small number of people rise about the class into which they were born (Sen. Warren) doesn't mean the system isn't rigged. Bret is so disingenuous here. If a bunch of innocents are shot by the police he would say, "It's only a few, that doesn't mean policing is broken." He's quite eager to proclaim "all's well" if the system he likes produces any good outcomes, no matter all the bad.
2
People like Stephens like to pretend that they are the most coveted voting block in the country and that their vote would be earned if only someone sensible came along. I would suggest to the Democratic candidates to ignore these inflated egos and to continue to make their honest pitch for reforming capitalism from its worst impulses. In other words, Warren should just keep doing what she’s doing, and convince the working class that what we have now does not service them. That’s it. Ignore the high-minded wannabe centrist voices like Stephens’.
10
Brett, the systems can be rigged, it was less rigged when Warren grew up, and yet some people can still do well. Your point that her life success shows the system isn’t rigged is just silly. Your broader point that she is too interventionist is a perfectly reasonable criticism although if you see us facing serious political, governmental and environmental crises, then your appeal to the so called moderate voter (a rapidly disappearing group) who is only comfortable with the mildest of incremental steps is only an electoral ploy and not a solution to problems.
3
The Seychelles is beautiful but the economic inequality there makes America look like a commune. You’d be a parody of yourself moving there, Mr. Stephens. The patriotic thing would be to stay here and give President Warren the benefit of the doubt for a few years.
7
The more I read Bret Stephens the more I disagree with him. He is rigid and closed minded. Elizabeth Warren is an intelligent, creative, inspiring and diligent individual. I don’t know what he is so afraid of? That’s she’s a woman? Come on Bret. Open your eyes and expand your mind. You deserve it to yourself. It’s about time that women make the BIG decisions. You can take a rest. Men have brought us to this breaking point and we’re DONE.
9
Y"et her own life story, as a child of the lower-middle class who wound up being a law professor at Harvard and then a United States Senator, gives the lie to that argument."
Sorry Brett - She is well aware that the system works for the "best and brightest" -The born lucky! -Just like her!
I guess YOU think everything is hokey dokey for most Americans and their future is bright without a radical change of course to deal with inequalty - health care -education and the environment AND the deficit.
Enjoy The Seychelles -"Let em eat cake"
5
No greater anti democracy rigging was done than Bret Kavanaugh getting Merrick Garland's Supreme Court seat.
9
I do not know if there is a law that states a sitting president has to participate in a debate. If these is no such law Trump will never even debate the democratic nominee unless it is Joe Biden. He will make Biden look like a fool. He will not ever get on the same stage with Pete, Elizabeth, Bernie or Kamala and he still would get his 46%. All he will need is people like Bret to vote 3rd party and he Landslides in electoral college wise. Even if there is a law he will just ignore it.
3
@HFDRU
I disagree, Trump’s ego and his belief of being the smartest guy around will bring him to the debate. He is convinced that he won the 2016 debate with HRC hands down and would not pass up such an opportunity to show his debainig superiority again, especially if his opponent is a woman.
If I am wrong and he doesn’t show up, the host could also put up an empty chair, the Democrats have done so in the past. They could also put an Eastwood lookalike to occupy the seat and have him ramble on like the real Clint.
2
Stephens would rather risk Trump, it seems, than give anyone free health care.
Typical Republican.
10
Didn't the Business Roundtable just admit that the system is rigged? Not to mention that the whole point of Warren's argument is that the system that worked for her is not working for folks in the same position today. Stephens doesn't have to vote for her, but he might try a fair assessment before he decides.
6
It can get awfully hot in southern France due to climate change, even if Mr. Stephens does his best to use his platform to deny it. The good thing about extreme heat, though, is it can be used to rid certain pests.
10
I wonder what pests might be referred to in this brilliant observation. Thank you for noting his denial of climate change even while experiencing unusual heat in France.
1
"Yet her own life story, as a child of the lower-middle class who wound up being a law professor at Harvard and then a United States Senator, gives the lie to that argument."
What lie? Have you listened to absolutely none of her speeches? Her entire point is that what was possible for her isn't possible anymore today. That when her father got sick, her mother got a job and that single income was able to support their family. You can't do that today. It's out of reach.
And no, we're not nominating a centrist just because you voted in a lunatic and now think anything other than incremental change is scary. You don't get to freak yourself (and everyone else!) out with your choice, then demand the rest of us give you a nice comfortable few years to get your bearings again. Some of us realize that what the US views as "centrist" would still be "right wing" in any other country. So... no. No cushy landing for you.
13
Shame on Bret, phony. Anyone not voting D is supporting the horror of 45.
11
Our political life has become a nightmare, not a "fable".
How much more economic and political chaos does the United States need to undergo before the ignorant, incompetent Trump can be removed from office? He is a great threat to the well-being of all Americans and to the standing of our nation in the world.
Trump was inflicted on this nation by a distorted electoral process. The Republican Party has not only undermined our democracy through gerrymandering and voter suppression, they have also undermined the global role of the United States in every way. The disgrace that Trump brings to our nation is unbearable.
Trump is the face of Republican Party. He is living proof of their total disregard for our country. Only a massive voter rejection of Trump and his Republican enablers can end the nightmare.
3
Bret Stephens' comment that Warren's life story proves the system isn't rigged is a misleading argument in the extreme. She was born in 1949, when the system was definitely not rigged like it is now (though not as rigged as much as Warren claims). Alas, her Medicare For All plan would probably mean she would never get elected. Her only hope is to somehow walk it back, to mea culpa, mea culpa, and offer a reform of Obamacare.
1
Wow Bret! You need to get your head right about the difference between Trump and Warren. Warren is a patriot who differs with you on policy but believes that she is proposing what is best for the country. Trump is not. I, as a liberal, would rather have Pence than Trump because I believe that Mike Pence cares about this country and puts the long-term survival of our nation - our system of governance - ahead of his personal ambitions. By saying that you can't vote for Warren, even to defeat Trump, you are failing to understanding the categorical differences between Trump and all other presidential contenders.
2
Only one person can unseat Trump: The Democratic nominee. If you don't vote for that person - you can't hide from this - you are supporting Trump, and the degradation of our institutions and our position in the world.
Stop fretting about Warren. She's campaigning in poetry, but she would be forced to govern in prose, and your concerns about her policies would be given voice, and made part of a myriad of compromises when legislation is drawn up.
7
I guess that Bret would rather see the country descend into totalitarianism than to have a president with whom he disagrees.
7
Thank you, Mr. Stephens. I knew all along you were completely phony in your "opposition" to the occupant of the Oval Office, and you prove it by saying you won't vote for Sanders or Warren, neither of whom shares your political views but neither of whom is clearly as crazy as a bedbug.
13
My plan B (Border-Begging): I know, as an hyperbolical declaration, this has been worn out; but if Trump gets re-elected, I really do see myself going to the Canadian border, getting down on my knees, and begging to be allowed in.
2
Yo Bret you just announced you're voting for trump.I've always found you like a side[like coleslaw] when you and Gail do these duets.After your comment today that you'll vote for a 3rd party candidate I'll never read anything with your name on it again.
7
Ok, Bret. About Warren, let's go...
"...her own life story, ..., gives the lie to that argument."
Because it's gotta be all or nothing. Because you fought the system and won, you have no right to criticize the system, never mind any obstacles she did overcome. Next...
"...you can’t just get rid of employer-provided health insurance in favor of some form of “Medicare for All” without creating gigantic dislocations with immediate costs for millions of people lasting for years."
Right, because NO ONE has any immediate costs for their health care right now. Everything is peachy. No need to change anything at all. Nothing to see here, move along. Next...
"If you think our debt levels are worrisome now, and they are, they would become nightmarish under a Warren administration."
The usual story about "a democrat in the White House, oh no, we can't possibly spend money on anything, NOW we have to save!!" Can't spend any money now regardless of what it actually is spend on. Even leaving out smart investments that are being smeared as "lefty" *cough* climate change *cough*, how about infrastructure or election security (vis-a-vis Russia, not the nonsense about millions of illegals voting in CA)? Nope, we gotta fear for the poor billionaires. See, one of the Kochs just died just because Trump didn't cut taxes enough.
Got anymore right-wing platitudes or some more rehash of conservative hypocrisy about debt levels? Sad. So sad.
8
This is a case in which I find myself in agreement with Bret. I think Pete's intelligence, his calm, thoughtful demeanor, his humility, his depth of knowledge, his ability to comprehend complexities, his executive and military background, his experience in the arts which requires rigorous discipline and leads to holistic perception of the human experience), along with his openness (imagine: a President with nothing to hide) distinguish him as a potential candidate and leader. As with Hillary Clinton (no more doubt about a woman winning the nomination and the election); Barack Obama (no more doubt about an African-American/POC's chances of being elected President); Donald Trump's ascendancy obliterates the need for experience as well as so many other attributes we used to consider essential qualifiers for the job. Before Al Franken resigned from the Senate, his was a potential candidacy I thought about and often stubbed my "wishful thinking" toe on his background as an entertainer. But with Trump's electoral college victory, having a former entertainer in the White House is another dis-qualifier that has been eradicated. As just about all of the current contenders for the Democratic nomination have said, any one of them would be better than what we've now got (Potted Plant/2020); but to my mind and for my money, Mayor Pete should not be dismissed as too young, too inexperienced, or as someone who is simply warming up in the bullpen for 2024, 2028, or as Gail suggests, 2050.
1
He reminds me of Sadam Hussein who seemed to need attention would threaten something and then back down
Andrew Yang is sneaking up on everyone.
Brett Stephens, a vote for a third party candidate is a vote for Trump. Get over your moral purity and do the right thing which is ridding the nation of the Trump Presidency. I have more respect for those who actually favor Trump than those who abhor him, want him gone but just can't bring themselves to do what may be necessary to accomplish that.
6
I was one of the 15,000 people who went to Elizabeth Warren's Town Hall in Seattle last weekend. For anyone who is actually listening, she is not saying that the system was rigged when she was starting out, she is saying that it is rigged now and that this is part of a fundamental corruption problem that needs to be addressed, she's right. Americans are clearly growing weary of the moderate, status-quo approach which pretends that with just a little minor tweaking all will be well. Well for who? I agree with Senator Warren that our country needs structural changes which will lift up the poor and middle class more than the wealthiest Americans, but I also believe she is incredibly smart and pragmatic. I will vote for whoever is the Democratic nominee, but I hope it is Elizabeth Warren, she's the most qualified person running.
16
Stephens always sounds so reasonable, until he doesn’t. Does he really believe that Warren would be as bad or worse than four more years of Trump? He must know that a third-party candidate cannot win in 2020. And in my opinion, not voting or voting for someone you know will never win is like splitting your vote between the two major-party candidates you say you can’t stand. The winner of the 2020 election will be either the Republican candidate or the Democratic candidate; if you can’t deal with that reality and vote according, then you are very weak in any number of ways.
10
I love Elizabeth Warren and helped host one of her first town halls when she ran against Scott Brown. She is intelligent and has a great story. However, she will not beat Trump. I am with Brett. She cannot win.She could be another McGovern and only win MA. She would be a great Sec. Treasury or VP.
Cory Booker, please. Brett you and I can rest easy, I think, it will never be Elizabeth Warren. Kamala Harris is better than she, but Cory the best; age, intelligence, middle of the road with corporate backing. Ask Michelle.
20
@GTH
I'll take Warren over Harris any day. Warren is always concise and understandable. Except for bashing Joe Biden, Harris can be a bit of a mess. And I don't like her track record. There a lot of small things about her that trouble me.
Corey Booker? He did not do such a great job as mayor.
6
@cl and Corey Booker is a wholly-owned subsidiary of the pharmaceutical industry. Look at his voting record.
5
In order to judge Bret's decision to vote third party if Warren is the Democratic nominee, I must know the state where Bret will cast his vote. If it is a state Trump has no chance of winning, Bret can make whatever irresponsible choice he wants if it makes him feel morally superior. If, however, he votes for a third-party candidate in a swing state he will commit an unforgivable crime against the future of his country.
7
Bret Stephens - you are being way too nice and deferential here. I wish you would have put forth more information on how the math on Warren's policies does not work - the above $50 million wealth tax is not enough to fund most of the more siginificant proposals of hers like Medicare for All or Green New Deal. That is assuming the over $50 million millionaires pay the taxes and are not devising plans B, C and D. But if you compare Warren's tax proposal to what some other Democrats are proposing, it does not look too bad - which should scare any reasonable and prudent person.
1
The fact that you have a friend with an extra house in the Seychelles explains a lot about why you don’t understand the system that works against a good many people. And you think that because Warren has managed to work her way from lower middle class to Harvard law is evidence her foundational argument about the rigged system is untrue? 1. Warren is able to think beyond her story to other people for whom the system doesn’t work, and 2. Not everyone has the ambition, fortitude, or savvy to do what she has done and they shouldn’t be penalized for it.
7
I just don't believe Bret when he suggests he could vote for a Democrat for President. I don't believe him because the crisis of Trump is so severe that anyone should recognize that the number 1 priority is to get him out of office. That means, as Nicole Wallace puts it, "I would vote for the Democratic candidate's campaign bus if that was my only choice over Trump". Brett is no different than any other Conservative - deny Democrats power despite the cost to our country.
6
Yes, and they are all full of advice for who the democrats should nominate in order to make their swath of former republicans comfortable. Or the very moderate. They never seem to realize that losing the rest is not a good bet.
4
Why does Bret think the Seychelles may disappear?
Does he now "believe" the facts made clear & obvious by climate scientists?
Does he "believe" in gravity? that's a theory, too.
9
So a common problem nowadays in big cities are bedbugs. Do any of the candidates plan to address this, possibly by calling the manager?
7
Yes, anything negative you can say about Warren goes THREE TIMES for Bernie Sanders.
Or positive, too. Bernie Sanders has, according to the NYTimes, three times the contributor enthusiasm in the over 200 US precincts that voted twice for Obama but then voted Trump in 2016.
He has, in that same group, FIVE TIMES the support that Biden reports.
And then Gail looks at the proposal of Medicare For All and laughs that Progressives can never find the $3.5 trillion that it would cost overall, forgetting once again that we're ALREADY SPENDING $4.5 trillion a year on it now.
How could one expect her to get multiplication correctly when she and Brett are still struggling with a worded problem that reads, "If Gail has four and a half apples to bake an apple pie, and the recipe calls for three and a half apples, where in the world can she get enough apples to bake that pie?"
I do not agree with Bret Stephens about Elizabeth Warren but I worry that too many Independents we need in the Democratic camp do.
Elizabeth Warren needs to double down and focus on her priorities. She'll never be able to accomplish all her goals, and she is frightening too many Independents.
And Medicare for All is dead on arrival. Among other issues with it, too many Americans are afraid it will mean that they'll have to give up their private insurance. We need to focus on improving the ACA by expanding Medicaid, helping those on ACA plans who do not qualify for Medicaid to afford their premiums, and by figuring out how to keep costs down for everyone. We need to change our culture regarding health care. Not all diseases need to be treated by an expensive specialist. In many cases, a primary care doctor can resume caring for patients after a referral.
But I agree with Stephens about Mayor Pete. Once Trump is out of office, we will desperately need a president who is highly intelligent, thoughtful, and humble and can lead us both at home and abroad. I'll support Elizabeth Warren if she's the nominee, but she is not my first choice.
I just want to say that I'm a liberal Democrat and I love these conversations with Bret Stephens (and would never call anyone names...another example of the growing coarseness of our national conversations).
"Yet her own life story, as a child of the lower-middle class who wound up being a law professor at Harvard and then a United States Senator, gives the lie to that argument."
That statement is incorrect. Warren's rise from lower middle class to a law professor predated Ronald Reagan's reign. That is she managed to start on a path to the "American Dream" before Reagan and Republicans made it nearly unattainable.
7
Bret, you can’t possible get away with comparing Elizabeth Warren’s life experience which started in the late 1960’s to younger people in the last few decades... and then hold it up as a the system working. The reason why she got ahead was that there were systems in place to help someone in her position. Federally subsidized tuition, grants rather than loans, low interest loans rather than a student loan business, etc. etc.
The current Neo-liberal economic system that has developed since the 1980’s has destroyed these systems or hollowed them out. That is why people in this country are so angry. And it is why Warren and Sanders are polling so well. They are trying to affect a system that is failing most of the people except for the wealthy in this country.
12
Middle class paying too much???....I have a real estate LLC (same as Trump) and because of the recent tax law I only had to pay 3.9% of my total gross income last year. Give us a break... I think not!
4
@richard
Taxes are the price we pay to live in a civilized socirty.
Do the Math Mr 3.9%.
1
@Lefthalfbach That was the point I was trying to make. Why on earth would I think 3.9% was a fair tax?
2
Bret - since a vote for a 3rd-party candidate is a vote for Trump, you do not seem to be, in fact, a "Never Trumper."
8
@Wilbur
Reasoning about facts using logic is not a republican strong point, but lying is.
2
As to the "Boy Who Cried Tariff", in Freudian terms Mr. Trump can be best diagnosed as an "ID-iot". Tragically, our nation suffers from a seemingly perpetual state "AGAST!" because of it - he doesn't have a clue.
Bret, stay in your lane! You know lots about the strategic use of social media, but nothing about what real democrats want.
6
The fact that Bret is so scared of Elizabeth Warren makes her more attractive.
Imagine - making economic opportunity more equitable. That scares the bejesus out of Republicans....
10
Brett, A vote of a Third Party when Trump is on the Republican Ballot is a vote for Trump. But, presumably, you live in NYC, so you're personal vote won't count anyway. But realize, as a widely read columnist, that you are, in fact, encouraging voters in swing states to do the same -- and in that case, they are voting for Trump. So don't pretend to yourself that that's what you're doing. You'd be voting for Trump, who, as you surely must know, profoundly mentally ill (I don't make this as a prejorative, but as a clinical statement). We are, in fact, in a medical emergency.
Two, veery credible, center-right, political writers, Wiites and Rauch, has written that if there's any hope for the Republican Party to reconstitute itself along the lines that you want, the Party has to experience a crushing, unambiguous defeat during the next election - - shock therapy. Take this critique seriously. As you're in journalism, you probably know them personally. Call them up and have a serious discussion.
I suspect if you have such a discussion you might find yourself in agreement, and true to influence voters in swing states to provide the shock treatment that's so needed.
4
Seychelles?
Imagine if all of the off-shored, untaxed income hidden in tax havens like the Seychelles came back to contribute to our coffers as it should — so many things, like Medicare for All, could be realized. I like Warren and her efforts to hold big banks accountable, even Teddy Roosevelt could get behind that idea, don't you think?
7
Writing in the paper of record that you would vote for the third-party candidate is deeply irresponsible, and in the context of our current administration, possibly unpatriotic as well.
18
Bret, re Seychelles -- you may have thought you were making a joke we'd laugh at. We're in that desperate straits with the environment and the country being destroyed, but we (e.g. Americans? Humans? your pick) don't don't have friends with escape routes.
But your ha ha tells us all we need to know wrt your opinion of Warren. Wrt your third party vote. You're really not thinking about the consequences of your vote. Your theories and ideas aren't about real life.
5
@Allison
Since when were conservative ideas and theories about real life? I'll answer NEVER. They're about enriching the already rich and getting a Nice Big Tip at the end. But if it's trump he'll just give you the boot and leave you holding the bag. That's his MO.
1
Bret Stephens won't vote for warren if she's the dem nominee. that's all
3
Brett you must be an elitist if you think that “the system isn’t rigged”. Only someone who benefited from the system the way it is would fight so hard to preserve it. You would rather throw your vote away by voting for a third party candidate, thus ensuring Trump’s re-election, than vote for a female Democratic candidate? Regardless of the words of disgust that you register have recently cited against Trump, you think you have a right to determine the Democrat’s Presidential candidate choice? The arrogance is in keeping....you helped get Trump elected and now you want to turn the Democratic Party into what you think your beloved Republican Party once was.
6
I don't want a radical leftist Democrat candidate who will give me low cost health insurance, a reduction in global warming, registering assault weapons, or promoting hippie communities where people bike, walk, and scooter to work.
I need a man, preferably Republican, who will stand up against our enemies: Europe, Russia, China, Central and South America, the Fake Press, Hollywood liberals, Canada, Mexico and the Federal Reserve.
1
Why are we never reminded.... the very definition of Socialism is the state ownership of production. NO candidate is even coming close to that definition so maybe we can drop the ignorant bluster.
8
@Richard. That is NOT the definition of socialism, but of communism. Socialism is an economic system whereby the means of production are owned by THE PEOPLE WHO DO THE WORK. I agree with you about ignorant bluster - given how much Trump loves Putin he seems to love the more modern communism, where the state doesn't own the means of production but the owners of the means of production own the state.
I'm with Bret. Listen, Democrats.
31
So trump is preferable?
@Frederick Dunn
13
@Frederick Dunn
I'm curious -- which of Warren's positions freak you out? From what I can tell, the ideas she supports all poll extremely well, yet we have people like Stephens calling her out of step.
10
@Frederick Dunn; sure, let's listen to a staunch republican. would could go wrong?
14
Any of the proposals coming from Sanders or Warren would have fit in nicely with Roosevelt's New Deal. How is it radical to suggest a single payer health care system but it is not radical to call for eliminating health care completely for millions of people. That is what Stephens' party has been running on now for almost a decade. That is radical.
Instead of uniting with We the People in taking back our Nation from t rump and his radical fascist party and voting for a "revolutionary" Stephens will continue to vote for the party that has given US 40 years of failed trickle down supply side economics and the current so called president.
He will do that and then go hide in one of the most socialist of Europe's democracies.
Aren't there any honest and smart conservatives out there Gail could have an actual conversation with?
5
Just quickly about what Joe Biden recently said about Obama.
It's not as "freaky" as one might think.
Goodness knows how many Black Americans were thinking and dreading the same thing during his entire presidency.
I know I was.
Between gun-obsessed Americans, this country's violent history and bigots unable to abide the fact that a Black family was in the White House, it was always that unspoken specter lurking around in the background.
Mr. Biden might have said it aloud -- but that doesn't make him the problem.
What allows someone like Donald Trump to run and become president of the United States of America is the problem.
2
The American people definitely won't deserve 'it' if a recession happens? Really, Bret? Enough of America voted for him and they don't deserve whatever happens as a result? The common term for this is 'the consequence of your choice'. Also, Bret, you and many others all pounce on 'the cost' of Warren's plans or Bernie's plan and say how absolutely hugely expensive it will be. I would like you to spell out for all of us what the price will be for doing nothing or in kicking millions off of health care or of allowing diabetics to die because they can't afford insulin. There is no cost (or the cost is comparatively a bargain) for acting like global warming is a hoax or doesn't exist? Allowing college debt to just keep rising....no cost there, huh, Bret? Not doing infrastructure will be far cheaper..No downside there either, I imagine. Give me a break. Let's hear the alternative.....I know.... put more money into rich people's pockets and presto....problem solved.
3
In a Republic, which is what we have, voting for a third party is a copout. Why not just stay home, it is the same difference, except you not need wasting your time voting.
The system is what it is. A parliamentary government would allow voters to vote their ideological choice. That also will never happen.
For a never Trumper, Stephens just doesn't get it. A vote for a third party candidate is a vote for Trump. So he should either put up or shut up.
5
Stephens' invokes false equivalences as a cop out. I also think he is clueless about the mood of the American electorate which increasingly sees Trump as a symptom and the GOP as the disease.
2
Bret, let's accept for the moment your opinion that Trump and Warren are opposite ends of a spectrum and therefore equally repugnant. Think of it this way. Your choice is between someone at one end whose views repulse you, but with whom you can have honest disagreements and open discussions based on facts; or someone at the other end whose views also repulse you, but who lies constantly, forcing you to spend too much of your time chasing down the truth.
If those are your two options, isn't your choice easy? If Trump has proven anything, he's proven that it's not all about political viewpoints.
Please don't waste your vote.
3
"How about “nice, competent, unifying and nonexhausting” for a change?" Does Bret mean someone like Barack Obama? The Dems would take back our center-right president in an instant, but the Republicans didn't seem to like him too much.
6
It’s always good to be reminded that Mr Stephens is still a bed rock right winger. He may loath #45 but it appears he may hate Sen.Warren just as much.
It’s also good to be reminded of this when folks are granting him sainthood on MSNBC.
5
new pathway.....
We need a Republican primary challenger who is more middle of road and can appeal to most Americans...not radical fringes or specific interest groups.
Does such a person exist ? Kasich ? Nickli Haley ?
Will someone with a spine and a brain step forward ?
1
@ZEMAN. The current corrupt GOP doesn't have such a person, anywhere.
Warren is not very impressive. She’ll lose a lot of voters like me who would never vote for Trump. Her policies are nonsense and are just another example of half the country just sticking it to the other half for the four measly years they are in power while the other side comes up with a crazier person. Just ping ponging back and forth. Such a joke. Bring back Obama, he was great.
3
Gail, I think you deserve a better Devil's Advocate to joust with. I adore Mayor Pete -- I'm a gay guy -- but Mr. Stephens pose and his petulant foot stamping will doom any hope ousting the King of Chaos and leave us with another four years of Trump's mendacity. Four more years will probably deal the US Republic the fatal coup de grâce. Then again, his ridiculous posturing is probably just for effect to garner eyeballs and attention.
6
There isn't a single Democrat running who wouldn't be a better choice than Trump.
If Bret Stephens finds Elizabeth Warren as distasteful as Trump he might as well vote for Trump instead of wasting his vote on a third party.
Don't be an enabler, Bret. You're supposed to be smart.
2
The only hope I see is for Michelle Obama to step up and do her duty and run for President. She would win and this circus will end and Trump will only be history, bad history.
2
Mayor Pete checks all the boxes. Unfortunately, there are still large swaths of the American population that will not acknowledge the credentials of a gay man to lead the nation.
1
I honestly don't know why Bret Stephens thinks that a Warren administration would be as much of a disaster as is unfolding in the Trump administration. He cites M4A, but that is not becoming law unless the Democrats take more than 60 Senate seats. As far as a rigged system, it is rigged. And Elizabeth Warren achieved her start before the effects of Reagan's election in 1980 started us down this path. Bret, grow u[p. Voting for a 3rd party in a two-party system is a little like looking out at the ocean and saying: I could live on the land or on the sea. Do I have a third choice? Well you do, but living in space is not a viable option at present.
Stephens uses Warren herself as rebuttal to the notion that the system is rigged. That's precious!
Warren succeeded in part because of her innate intelligence and whiteness. It's a good thing that some women can succeed despite the system.
But using that exception to prove some "rule" is beyond absurd. Women are paid 20% less for the same work. Black men are incarcerated and profiled. Working class folks have no wage gains and shrinking benefits. Big Pharma makes billions while people all over America are addicted to opioids and can't get treatment. The NRA holds Congress hostage. The Koch brother - good riddance to the "s" - distribute template legislation that is passed all over America. Credit card companies charge rates that Al Capone couldn't get away with.
And Elizabeth Warren is evidence of equal opportunity and equity in America? Go back to the South of France and enjoy yourself, Bret.
“For example, you can’t just get rid of employer-provided health insurance in favor of some form of “Medicare for All” without creating gigantic dislocations with immediate costs for millions of people lasting for years.”
If you change “employer-provided health insurance “ (which is not insurance, btw) for slavery and “Medicare for All” for freedom you will realize that that is the same argument used by the Confederate States to defend the economy they had.
The healthcare system we have in the USA is a disgrace and it’s about time we change it. Warren is right.
2
I would be willing to bet Bret's revulsion with Elizabeth's nomination is more to do with her being a woman, than her economic stances. And thinking "Mayor Pete" could get across to the voters Democrats need to win back in places like Wisconsin and Michigan is insanity. They don't even want a wedding cake baked for him.
2
Warrens tens of trillions would be srent on helping the American people.
Stephens's two wars, Iraq and Afghanistan, cost almost five trillion and counting and gave the American people nothing but dead and maimed American soldiers.
I like Warren's spending goals better.
3
Time, again, for some "old school" thinking. Warren would lose either the nomination or the presidency because the comfort-seeking majority does not like a tense woman.
I think Stephens overreacts with his "tens of trillions" sticker shock on Warren's ideas. If the bloat in our military is trimmed, taxes become fair and functional, public college and health care are not only possible, but optimal. Simply put, the world economy is evolving. We have to look at what is most healthy for community. Do want the money going to billion dollar helicopters that go obsolete in five years, or tuition and healthcare that may seed generations of innovators. It comes down to making a smart investment. I think if we speak in terms like what is the best investment, maybe Stephens will see the other side as not so scary.
3
Vacation in the south of France and then threaten to flee to the Seychelles! Nice.
5
It seems pretty clear that once trump got into power he was told there were things he could NOT do.
So he ordered government lawyers to tell him things he COULD do.
Hence his abuse of presidential powers, his edicts, his fake states of emergency et cetera.
He has always been one to skirt the laws and continues to do so.
What a laughable pathetic tiny fake human.
1
@Technic Ally
Take it from those of us here in NYC who know better and tried to warn America and the rest of the world about Donald Trump.
He's done whatever he's wanted to do ever since he was born with a silver-plated spoon in his mouth.
People of privilege rarely feel like they are beholden to anyone.
There's nothing new about his behavior besides it having found a bigger stage.
1
Why won't the American people deserve a recession? Who elected Trump anyway? And although he's below 50%, most of his voters, almost all Republicans, and every last one of the Evangelical folks still adore him.
Look at it this way. Trump is awful, but despite the comparisons some people make, he's not Hitler. So we don't deserve to go down in our own version of the Battle of Berlin. A serious recession is probably a reasonably measured punishment, proportional to the offense.
It's the rest of the people of the world who definitely won't deserve it. Many of them will suffer more than we will.
1
One thing I know for sure, Elizabeth Warren wouldn’t start a trade war. None of the Dems would. None of the Dems would act like a lunatic at the G7 either.
6
Here we go again, Bret. Voting third party candidates is how we wound-up with the idiot we have now! Just think of 2020 this way: We’re all not voting FOR anyone - We’re all voting AGAINST someone. You and your conservative cohorts have had your fun with a right wing loon, now, it’s only fair that the liberals have some fun with a left wing loon in charge. Let’s face it, centrists are no fun at all.
3
Can we have Obama back now?
5
The system is rigged if an incompetent and unethical idiot can descend out of the upper-upper class to become president and get away with messing up the world, whereas a highly competent and ethical smart woman who rose out of the lower-middle class to become a law professor at Harvard and a US senator can't get elected to fix the mess.
3
Plan B from outer space: Gail Collins on top of the ticket and Bret Stephens as her loyal sidekick Vice. That way we can get the Stephen's vote.
There is nothing wrong with Ms. Warren and Bernie Sanders calling it out as it is. Wall Street is rigged against the little man. Period, if that wasnt the case why is it that people have gone without a real salary increase for thirty years. Why is it that black women have the highest death rate in childbirth in this country. Why is it that we pay more in medical costs and have the worst outcomes.
People are tired of this made up world of the GOP values against the Democrat values. This country is soulless when NOT one GOP talks against putting kids in cages and separating children from their parents. The GOP lovers of the unborn but hate health care for women
If you guys cant write about the horrors of the policies implemented by the GOP then you are living in the Trump /white world of delusion.
Democrats are and have been awake about the rigging of the political and economic system in America.
The only fools in this country are the white GOP who think their outdated racial divide ,socialist, communist etc methods are going to work this time around.
We have seen the monster and nothing you can write will change public opinion to your backward way of thinking, all Americans deserve a good life not just the white folks who work for the NYT or the white house.
2
Whether or not the system is rigged depends very much on who you are. The enormous number of people who lost their jobs because of global trade were not asked if the wealth generated by that trade should be distributed more equitably. It wasn't and the system was rigged to make sure it wasn't. You could say that the system was rigged by and for the people who have grown rich because of global trade. But that would mean complaining.
1
Bret Stephens: Why are you worried about a candidate who is too far to the left? Unless the Democrats win the Senate, any of the Democratic candidates are going to have the same experience that Barack Obama did: blocked at every turn. The only reason to reject any Democrat is if you think they can't defeat Trump.
2
Brett says Warren's plans for everything — health care, the environment, free college, child care — cumulatively cost tens of trillions of dollars. The idea that Jeff Bezos and a few other billionaires and millionaires are going to pay for it all just doesn’t add up. What does add up is that land values in thriving cities amount to tens of trillions of dollars that do not rightfully belong to any one or group of individuals. That's where you pay for these and more things.
conclusion: Gail is way smarter than Bret.
16
Bret's view of Warren is rather warped. He claims that her history and her own rise belie her argument that "the system is rigged". But when she says that she's talking about the way things are NOW, and she emphasizes that the way her family survived on her mother's minimum wage job wouldn't be workable today. He claims that she's all about tearing the system down and calls her a revolutionary rather than a reformer. But the substantial changes she advocates are all about making our political and economic systems work the way they're supposed to, for the benefit of all, not just those at the very top. Despite what he seems to believe, she is not out to replace capitalism as the basis of our economy. As for the argument about eliminating private health insurance as part of health care reform, I'm sure there is room for discussion during the campaign about the details of how best to achieve universal coverage...which is the point. And the plans that he disparages are for things this country needs, and when something is acknowledged to be needed a way can be found to provide it.
I find Bret's description of Mayor Pete to be a little ironic, since the terms he uses could actually apply to Warren...if he were not to blind to see it. The response to her at recent campaign events seems to contradict his estimate of her personality.
5
Elizabeth Warren's personal success story is due to policies in the government that assisted and invested in the 90%. There is no such investment going on now, instead there are only banks, universities,and corporations preying on the people.
Perhaps Brett should chill out and realize that not every single one of Warren's well-thought-out policy ideas can be implemented immediately. If we have to have a trillion dollar deficit, I would rather it be due to money that has been spent to support and invest in the middle class and those who are punished by our current system. Or because we have made massive investment to upgrade our crumbling infrastructure.
5
"If this triggers a recession, Trump will deserve it. But the American people definitely won’t." I disagree. Until the American people take responsibility for their reckless waste, environmental destruction, and treatment of minorities...they deserve whatever pain befalls them.
1
Bret, voting for a third party is useless. It doesn't 'send a message' to anyone who matters. If you don't vote for the Democrat, and vote for a 'third party', and are voting for the Republican, no doubt about it.
Registering as an Independent is even more useless. Behaving as if you are 'an outside observer' in our political system is an abdication of responsibility. Our party system is still the foundation of our political system.
You will give us four more years of Trump.
4
"For example, you can’t just get rid of employer-provided health insurance in favor of some form of “Medicare for All” without creating gigantic dislocations with immediate costs for millions of people lasting for years..".....Maybe somebody should tell Bret that Canada gets better healthcare outcomes and pays 40% less for their healthcare than we do. Do the math. What is 40% of $3 trillion dollars. How would you like to save that much every year? The only thing that is unaffordable is the healthcare system we have now.
3
Hillary would have won if not for those who voted for the third party candidate in the few key states.
10
“If this triggers a recession, Trump will deserve it. But the American people definitely won’t.”
no, we will deserve it. we will deserve it because we—as a nation—elected him and elected a cabal of spineless republicans who only confront him when they’re out of harm’s way and out of office.
2
I cannot imagine any of these Democrats beating Trump. They are really a sad lot of losers. Sorry, but it's true. The "level-headed ones" are too dull and boring for this electorate and will get crushed by Trump in the Twitter-verse. The smart and energetic ones like Warren and Sanders are so far out of the mainstream that they scare people. People with jobs and who pay taxes do not want to have to pay more taxes. We worker-bees are already working and we already paid for our own tuition and saved for our kids tuition. We do not want to suddenly have to pay for your tuition also. We have health insurance through our employers and we do not need another shock to the system like ACA.
We just want someone who is competent and empathetic and not a racist, who will not mess up the economy in that we have learned to prosper.
Why is that so hard?
1
Where have all the good politicans gone?
One could argue that the 'dumbing down' of the electorate (weak education in America) has allowed people like Trump to be elected.
Along with 'echo chamber' media like Fox and CNN, NY Times and you end up our current political system.
And what kind of well educated, sensible people want to go into national politics?
OT: Anyone who quits Twitter earns more respect in my book.
Bret, your ideological purity helped elect the current occupant. Many 2016 purists/non-voters have not been harmed by the administration and never come into contact with those who have, i.e. opioid addicts, homeless, struggling farmers. How many years can you financially afford and are you willing to hang out in the Seychelles and watch the USA collapse from afar? Personally, I want to see a return to global respect and collaboration in my lifetime, but I'm old enough not to. I'll vote Dem to start the process.
3
Score one more for Gail's logic. For Bret, I'm so glad he is one of the elite who has rich friends in the Seychelles and thinks it's okay to ignore his obligation to vote responsibly. May he leave soon, without his phone or laptop.
As a white middle classer, I'm leaning more toward Warren against Biden, but worry that she might not carry enough votes against DT.
2
"If this triggers a recession, Trump will deserve it. But the American people definitely won’t."
The American people who voted for Trump? The American people who elect Trump enablers, aka the GOP congresspeople and governors? The American people who return the McConnell so he can continue to strangle democracy?
The trade war with China has been going on for several decades. The previous Presidents including Clinton, Bush and Obama did nothing, allowed it to continue and just kicked the can down the road. Now we have a great negotiator in chief who is getting America better trade deals and the main stream media is going nuts. It's like living in Bizarro world.
So it looks like Bret Stephens is willing to propel Trump into a second term. What a critical thinker!
5
Q: How did our political life come to seem like a fable?
A: Trump.
Q: Is there any hope on the horizon for something more grounded?
A: No!
One must acknowledge the wisdom of Eddie Glaude in that if one sees Trump as the problem one clearly does not understand the problem. Yes, Trump has given the stage over to the problem, but HE's not the problem.
It's the 40% of the US electorate that embraces bigotry, racism, homophobia, xenophobia, and white nationalism that's the problem.
So.....NO, if the question of there being "...any hope on the horizon for something more grounded..." means accommodating denigrating the rest of us, then the answer is a resounding NO. Bluntly, there IS no amount of accommodation that is either sufficient to placate the right on such animosity nor acceptable to us on the left to such animosity.
Game ON!
2
You say Dems need a "centrist" - where can we find one? Mayor Pete is the closest....would love to see him take it!
You know Bret, when you finally came to your senses on climate change about three decades after science said you should, we welcomed you back as the prodigal son. But, as welcome as you are at the feast, the prodigal does not get to pick the wine list or the menu items. Donald is a clear and present danger to the security of the United States of America which I assume you care about more than how much we regulate corporate America. Pick a side.
2
Stephens is quite right about one thing: if Democrats nominate Elizabeth Warren, they will lose millions of voters and Trump will win. No one is going to give up their health insurance for a promise of pie in the sky without a fight. And just when did white, blue collar men in Michigan and Ohio who voted for Obama -- twice, in many cases -- fall in love with a radical Harvard professor from Massachusetts? Anyway, does Joe Biden's missing a word every do often really deserve the headline treatment and ad nauseam analysis it gets from the Times and other media when the man he would run against is ignorant, inarticulate and has the vocabulary of a fourth grader?
1
Bret Stephens's claim that Elizabeth Warren's personal success story "gives the lie" to her complaint that the system is rigged against poor and working class people is the equivalent of saying, "There's no such thing as racism in America--after all, I know a black guy with a really good job."
2
Here we go again... “ not Hillary”. Brett your party needs to find the acceptable alternative to Trump, not the Democrats. And by the way , employers who will have to give up offering (ever increasing premiums) health insurance will welcome it which in turn will provide more money to pay employees.
1
You really do have to love the way Republicans like stephens, having turned their party into a personality cult, want Democrats to elect a right of center candidate so there'll be two republican parties.
5
At this time the democrats need a straight, white, male who is tall and articulate.
As one eager to get rid of our present embarrassment I will vote for anyone on the democratic ticket. However I believe that the above mentioned SWMTA would be a winner.
Bret Stephens asks:
How about “nice, competent, unifying and nonexhausting” for a change?
That sounds like Steve Bullock to me. Why aren’t more people talking about him? He’s the guy Trump can’t beat.
Bret: "How about “nice, competent, unifying and nonexhausting” for a change?"
That was Obama. A certain group of right-wing ideologues did everything, including gross slanders, to block him.
As we see the Trump-yahoos and what's left of the Republican party trying to paint Sanders and Warren as extremists, I hope the Democrats field a real revolutionary, like Teddy Roosevelt, who can and will "drain the swamp" (actually).
2
This is why we need ranked choice voting.
107
@VCantor
This is why we need to get rid of the Electoral College.
24
@VCantor
We've got it in Maine! Works great!!
19
@VCantor What you mean is we don't like the way the rules work for us so let's just change them. Much like playing a game with a child who changes the rules to their liking.
Bret says,
" you can’t just get rid of employer-provided health insurance in favor of some form of “Medicare for All” without creating gigantic dislocations ..."
How many Americans do you know who complained about "giant dislocations" when they reach age 65, and are eligible for Medicare? I know my family breathed a sigh of relief. No more dealing with endless phone calls to our insurance company, or PBM . No more appeal letters to our insurer as to why an effective medication was suddenly being denied, unless we did a 3 month trial of "something else."
No more confusing EOB letters, and finding out we have a huge co-pay or deductible for just visiting a hospital for lab work.
And no more punishing premiums of $1700 a month we were paying.
2
Elizabeth Warren seems like a capitalist for producers of hula hoops and toothbrushes. For almost everything else, there seems to be a "plan for that".
Our federal agencies are largely understaffed, necessarily lag in adopting technology and often have other internal problems. The bigger we make their pile of tasks the harder it will be for them to perform them well and the more manipulating government policy or enforcement will be a better investment for businesses than improving products and services. The unintended consequences could enormous, and the odds that none of many "plans" backfires disastrously is extremely small.
Imagine making government that much bigger and more arbitrarily powerful, then getting a president almost as bad as Trump in twenty years. The people who create a system with competence and honorable intentions are not the people who will be running it in a couple decades, but we all will have to live with the results.
1
OK, liked the discussion, but LOVED the title.
Voting for right wing third party candidate as Stephen intends if Warren becomes a candidate may feel like denying Trump a vote, but he was not going to vote for Trump anyway so it amounts to doing nothing to impede Trump re-election. The fear of Warren is irrational, she is not going to destroy the US. Whatever policies are thought too extreme will not pass muster in Congress. Stephen needs to overcome some deep seated conservative biases and assess Warren realistically, not trough a narrow periscope.
5
My takeaway is that Bret Stephens would acknowledge Trump has and continues to poison the body politic, our air, our water, our relations with our allies, and our trade-dependent economy. And yet he will not vote for a smart, highly educated antidote, Elizabeth Warren, because "Democrat" is on the label.
13
Let's see how Mr. Stephens feels after the primaries, but there's nothing wrong with negotiating from an absolutist position--the Republicans have been doing it for decades (abolish the IRS/Dept of Energy/Education/etc.) to great success.
3
Regardless of the Democratic base's support for certain of Ms. Warren's policies, her push to eliminate employer-subsidized private health insurance will certainly make the GOP's job easier next fall, even if we are amid a full-blown recession. Consider also the impact on down-ticket candidates who feel compelled to go along with the would-be Democratic nominee's policy position, and the fact that the two oldest Supreme Court justices are from the liberal wing. The implications of campaigning on taking away what the majority of the electorate holds dear is ill-guided, and will be disastrous.
1
Mr. Stephens,
You frequently raise the issue of intellectual honesty and you should practice what you preach. To say that Elizabeth Warren's success "gives the lie to [the] argument" that he system is to fudge the argument. The success of a single individual does not change the well documented fact that American society has become far less economically mobile than it once was and lags behind every other comparable country. The vast majority of people live and die in the same quintile they were born in. Warren no doubt benefited from her native intelligence and capacity for hard work and other factors that could be labeled luck or contingency. Most people -- even the smart and hard working don't. The "system" is growing steadily more egalitarian and unequal and I think you know it.
4
Dear Bret,
When Elizabeth Warren was young, the scales WEREN'T tipped toward the rich so far as they are now. So the fact that she was able to accomplish so much, coming from poverty, says absolutely nothing about what people now are up against. This is the legacy of the Reagan Revolution. She gets that - you and others who are still conservative, do not.
10
Bret I’m with you!
When will the Dems come to their senses and realize that they need a centrist not a progressive to win over moderate/establishment Republicans who can’t stand Trump or the radical proposals of the progressive Democrats?
At this time I feel homeless!
1
@KJS
Bill Clinton was a centerist. Barrack Obama was a centerist. And they faced unrelenting opposition from ALL Republicans for the entirety of their 16 years in office.
4
@Rex7 But those centrists actually WON, unlike McGovern, Mondale, and Dukakis who were all too far left for the American electorate.
1
@csgirl. This USA is not the one that existed when McGovern, Mondale and Dukakis ran. We and the world have changed, and having Trump as president has changed a lot of thinking about what is too far left and what isn't. AND a lot of people will be voting in 2020 WHO WEREN'T EVEN BORN WHEN 9/11 HAPPENED, much less than when M,M and D ran. The torch is passing, as it's supposed to.
Given Bret Stephens' intelligence and vocabulary, it's interesting to see how his choice of words veers from neutral to deceptive when it comes to one of the leading Democratic candidates--Elizabeth Warren. He states that "her politics are all about tearing the system down", when in truth, her campaign is all about plans to improve legislation for middle class Americans.
He says "she lacks the honesty to admit that the only way to pay for it all is by levying immense taxes on the middle class", when in fact she's looking at the numerous giant corporations that make $billions in profits every year yet pay NO TAXES.
Bret tells us that Democrats should nominate "a candidate who doesn't alienate so many middle of the road voters"--a questionable statement when in fact her rallies attract thousands of "middle of the road" attendants.
Makes me think tht Bret is trying to disguise his outright conservative bias.
12
Bret re: Warren's "supposed rigging. Yet her own life story, …. gives the lie to that argument." A few people win the lottery, but that is not an argument for the lottery as a retirement investment plan.
She is not about "tearing the system down" She says she wants to SAVE CAPITALISM from dying of its own contradictions. (Oh, right that was Marx.) I'd say her "plans" aim to rebalance capitalism, so it doesn't totally evolve into oligarchy/kleptocracy. Ya know, people really should have equal opportunity, and all those things we used to believe in.
8
Ohhh, Bret doesn't even TRY to sound like a regular person. He starts with the south of France and ends with the wealthiest islands in the world......
It makes it much easier to dismiss his criticism of Senator Elizabeth Warren when you see where his ideas come from. I agree the very rich might not like Warrens plans but most of us do and would benefit from them. Trump has already given us the largest debt in history to benefit people with second homes in the Seychelles. It is good to have the contrast with Gail who does seem to speak for the more thoughtful, considerate, perhaps better educated, but not super rich among us.
18
Bret, I like your columns and your love for the U.S. In that vein please realize that a third-party vote (if the nominee is Senator Warren) is basically a vote for the current occupant of the Oval Office. The current occupant is shredding the Constitution and what made our nation special - any of the likely Democratic nominees will have a love of country and not put their narrow self-interests before their oath to the Constitution.
9
Dear Mr. Stephens,
If you don’t think our state and federal legal and economic systems are structured to the great disadvantage of people without lots of resources (“rigged”), I recommend you take a little time to listen to some excellent series from WNYC’s On The Media. Try the one on Eviction or the one on Poverty. Teacher that she is, Elizabeth Warren is trying to daylight some of these structural issues for the public. It may seem radical to try to undo government policies that sustain these structures, but it’s either uninformed or callous to pretend they’re not there. I think many people on the left, right, and in the middle would agree.
16
Bret Stephens thinks the very fact that Warren rose from poverty to the US Senate belies her critique of US capitalism. Warren simply wants to return the country to the kind of conditions that allowed that rise—intelligently regulated capitalism. Her life story, her desire to give today’s young people the same chances she had, is the reason for her candidacy. How did you miss that, Bret? She says it all the time. Maybe try actually listening to her, Bret.
17
Reading Bret it sounds like he has at least twenty different homes in ten different countries so it actually does make a difference in which place he does or does not cast a vote. If it is New York it probably doesn't make too much of a difference. In Ohio it very well might.
4
Bret's (and Tom Friedman's, and David Brooks's) concerns that the Democrat nominate a "moderate" due to fear of the radicalism of Warren's and Sanders's proposals stem both from unacknowledged white male privilege ("please, nominate someone who's like ME!!!") and a strange disconnect from how the actual American political process works. Does anyone really think, even if they wanted to, that Warren or Sanders could magically implement their whole agendas and that Congress will just go along. They are putting real ideas on the table, at least, that will change and modify as they seek to implement them. I know Bret doesn't belief in climate change (but perhaps that heat in the south of France changed his mind?), but given the realities of climate change, inequality, etc., we need some bold thinking.
10
Totally agree! Everyone i know who doesn't want Warren is - remarkably - a white male.
Sexism is alive and well and living in the US.
2
Sorry Bret, but your language regarding E Warren sounds more misogynist than logical.
19
In the 2018 election in Massachusetts, Charlie Baker (centrist Republican) and Liz Warren both got more than 60% of the popular vote. It is a statistical certainty that many of those who voted for one voted for the other.
So, if the question is whether Warren can get votes from "centrist" (right leaning Democratic and Liberal Republican) voters, the answer is clearly a resounding "yes".
15
Getting a little tired of being lectured that only candidates the Democrats should nominate are those who are popular with people who are not Democrats.
22
@Scott
Same here. Richard Nixon was probably more liberal than the 'Republican Lite' Democratic presidents who have moved to fill the vacuum created by Republicans moving ever farther to the extreme right. And now when we talk about anything a tad to the left of extreme right Republican policies, they're labeled SOCIALISM.
3
@Scott It is fine to be a purist if you don't want to win. But if you want to win, yeah, you are going to have to be popular with more non-Democrats than Trump is. Remember, it isn't the popular vote that wins, it is the Electoral College.
Looks like Bret is really worried that Warren will be the next President. Hope he’s right about that. He’s on the right, anyway.
6
Around half of Americans don't even bother to vote in National Elections. Politicians need to speak to those Americans.
3
Almost over-determined Stephens here: Democrats need to nominate a centrist whose bland policies won't threaten my elitist sinecure, and if they don't I'm going to live in the Seychelles.
20
Bret, please don't be a purist in the 2020 election. People detested Hillary in 2016, me included, and didn't vote. Of course, no one thought Trump could win.
And the nation awoke to the horrifying news that he won. The nation's cortisol levels soared, and it's well-being fell precipitously.
The U.S., and the world, are constantly "on edge", thanks to Trump's desire to serve only himself and a stunning lack willingness to learn or govern.
If voters vote for a third party, or don't vote, the race is so close that the U.S. could get another 4 years of Trump. His policies and the lame brains that surround him are toxic to life.
If you think Warren's plans will cause a deficit, think again about Donnie's $1 trillion deficit and his desire to enlarge it, making tax cuts for the rich permanent, paid for by government loans that taxpayers pay down;
his continued bailouts for those harmed by his ignorance-based trade wars and tariffs; his party's desire to reduce social security and Medicare;
no infrastructure plans--except a wall; and supporting thousands of people in ICE shelters instead of processing them according to the law. There may be a costly and unnecessary war with Iran in the offing.
This amounts to a huge deficit, and inescapable misery.
Bret, now's not the time to "vote with your heart", when the U.S. and the world face climate change as the number one security threat, the President is a climate change denier, and the world's biggest enemy.
408
@Lilou
It is also noteworthy that Warren's current policies would never get through the Senate, even with a Democrat majority. She would have to compromise. So vote for her Bret!
41
@Howard Kessler--perhaps not, Howard. It depends on who is elected to the Senate, and if there are enough courageous Senators to insist that Moscow Mitch, the biggest obstacle to reviewing legislation, is gotten around. One man, especially part of a body that is to check the Executive, not be slave to it, should not have this kind of influence.
21
@Lilou,
Unfortunately Bret Stephens is a climate change denier, too (or a "climate change agnostic" as he labels himself) so I fear that your plea will fall on deaf ears (and a closed mind).
40
I agree with Brett 100% on voting for the person you want, not voting 'against" a person.
Remember all the people who voted for Trump not because they t liked him but could not vote for Hillary. Had they voted for a 3rd party would we have had Trump??
@CinnamonGirl
Just for the record I'm getting a little tired of the trope of "if Democrats go too far left, they'll lose."
I'm trying to figure out what benefit people are receiving from the right. I see no Republicans, and few Democrats, who are actually developing or presenting, actionable proposals on any topic.
I suspect Warren knows some of her preferred policies couldn't be implemented exactly as she'd desire; however she's given them thought and understands the implications. Alternatively, the right has presented nothing but "trust us to do the right thing" which had turned out to be nothing.
Really, what is it that you think will "attract moderates?" Start thinking about what she's saying. We need some fundamental changes. "Attracting moderates" sounds like you're willing to settle for "not insane.". She's all that and more.
13
Let's send Bret back to the Wall Street Journal, a publication far enough to the right that it can make a leftist straw-man out of Warren. Not sure where he's seeing that she's a radical leftist - she's no Chomsky or Gravel, she's not even a Sanders. Her "far-left" policies like Medicare for All and increased taxation of the rich (her math is fine on this, by the way), are pretty moderate compared to most liberal democracies. Bret talks about nominating a centrist - let's have a name, because the left won't come out for a Biden or a Harris, and without the left, the Democrats can't win.
14
Anymore American politics is a sound bite competition, and out-mouthing the president will be a tough road. Democrats need to present a candidate who is ready to take it to him, AND offer a forward vision of strength and stability for our economy. Mayor Pete deserves a chance and he and Warren would be a formidable team. Obamacare is a sound basis to build on, so instead of destroying and rebuilding, play to our strengths and devise something we all can benefit from. The GOP can’t, and won’t, do it, and the democrats have an opportunity to make real change at an important time.
3
This column just confirms what I have been fearing all along- the Democrats do not have a viable candidate. Trump will win in 2020 even if there is a tariff induced recession going on. Biden doesn't have the sharpness to beat Trump, and I fear he never did. Warren has a thousand plans, none of which make any sense at all, and which are deeply unpopular in the very states Democrats need to pick up. Sanders is the Trump of the Left. If either Sanders or Warren gets the nomination, it will end up like the year McGovern ran against Nixon. Democrats will take California, New York, Massachusetts, Vermont, and maybe Washington State by huge margins and lose every other state.
1
You're wrong: if there's a recession, he'll lose even if the Dems put up Mickey Mouse. If there's no recession, he probably will win - unless the Dems put up a powerhouse who brings out the base like Warren, and not another old, white male like Biden.
1
@Liberal N. Proud Bringing out the base is not a winning strategy for Democrats because our base voters are all concentrated in a handful of states. The Republicans can win that way because their voters are spread among more states. We have to take back some of those states in order to win, which means attracting enough moderates. Otherwise we end up with a repeat of 2016 - winning the popular vote by a huge margin but still losing the Electoral College.
I'd like to hear from Bret again if Warren wins the nomination and begins taking a more centrist approach (which she'll have to and will do). I think of Warren as a progressive reformer, not a revolutionary. She wants to fix problems through policy, not blowing up the system.
I started following this campaign thinking there was no way she could win and now she's my number one choice. I think she'll convince more and more people the more they hear from her.
(Keeping in mind, of course, that I'm a Canadian citizen and cannot vote in American elections...my American husband will be though!)
4
"...this meltdown might be a good thing, in that it might finally get Republicans in the Chamber of Commerce mold to realize the president is not their friend."
That's a good start.
But, how about Republicans and the Chamber of Commerce and the National Federation of Independent Business and every major CEO in the country? And if it takes people only concerned about their bottom line and not the soul and morality of the nation to finally push for Trump's removal, so be it. Just remember, Mike Pence went along for the ride and is just as tainted.
1
No way would Mr. Stephens be saying these things about Elizabeth Warren if she were a man. A man would never be thought of as "too competent"!
20
Hey Brett Stephens, Elizabeth Warren could easily, and I truly mean easily pay for Medicare for All and significantly reduce college costs by (a) adopting a combination of the best of what the rest of advanced countries, which includes controlling costs of Big Pharmacy and cutting insurance companies out completely; (b) cut the military budget by two-thirds or more; (c) reinstate the estate tax above $10 million, (d) tax financial transactions to encourage long-term rather than short-term investments, (e) fund the IRS to go after the big scofflaws, such as trump and all other super-rich who evade taxes through foreign shelters, etc.
In other words, Brett, there's alot more to Elizabeth Warren and Democrats than simply looking at what they want to provide to the American people. Try looking at cutting military costs and refocusing reasonable sources of revenue.
Finally, let's stop talking about Republican "fiscal responsibility". It's too funny except that it hurts.
21
Either Bret Stephens doesn't understand capitalism, markets, basic economics and structural economic injustices (the "rigged" system), and what Warren actually thinks about all of these, or he does and is intentionally misrepresenting her positions.
Since he attended the London School of Economics, has won the Pulitzer prize for his reporting and worked for the Wall Street Journal, it would seem clear to this reader that the latter obtains.
Mr. Stephens seems emboldened by Trump's lies to start telling his own about Elizabeth Warren. The stench spreads.
17
Well, I just keep shaking my head. Here is one of the most predictable outcomes of someone/ something having been regarded as so "unpredictable." I guess it does depend on whatever perspective. "Predictably unpredictable" is the case here, with the unpredictable understood to be practically more than apparently psychopathological. I've commented from the outset of seeing enough of Trump's generously broadcast behavior that it shows ample signs of mental (behavioral) disorder. He should have had a sign hung around his neck lettered "Out of Order" to warn the caregivers of people in comas, except for the determined efforts of the Republican enablers. Most mentally disordered people are the victims of crime because of their vulnerability. The compassionate approach to managing his perpetrator type is "behavioral quarantine" of some kind because it is largely untreatable. The containment is either through imprisonment (via conviction of crime--typically in such cases) or court-ordered monitoring like Epstein was supposed to have. But for as long as Epstein could get away with it, "the rich are different from you and me" (Fitzgerald).
"Remember when Donald Trump said trade wars were “easy to win”? That may be this administration’s version of George W. Bush’s “Mission Accomplished” moment."
Actually he seems to have a "Mission Accomplished" moment every time he speaks on anything. Except his is a more 'Mission Will Be Accomplished Bigly and Beautifully and Only By Me" moment...
1
brett stephens, ugh. his voting for a third-party candidate if it comes down to it clearly demonstrates his lack of conviction for any of his arguments against a DJT 2nd term.
8
I think Bret Stephens acted like a bed bug when he tried to get a university professor fired. If Bret Stephens would do something like that to chill free speech, then I believe he would claim that Elizabeth Warren is the proof that the system is not rigged.
16
As I commented in another article:
To paraphrase Samuel Johnson, "Continuing to support Donald Trump represents the triumph of hope over experience."
This exchange confirms that the Dem's have no one electable who's running. There must be someone out there. I saw Terry McAuliffe on tv a couple of weeks ago; I'd never heard of him; and he sounded really good - but he's not running. I am so disappointed in the Democratic party.
@Horace With all due respect, if you've never heard of Terry McAuliffe before, you're not the most informed voter and perhaps you should educate yourself on current politics before opining on the Democratic Party.
Let's face it folks, we have a low-functioning President with serious psychological and psychosocial issues. These deficiencies, coupled with his innate inclination toward mayhem, allow him to be easily manipulated to the endangerment of us all.
All the blather in this article clarifies one main contention... absolutely anyone, other than a lunatic, would be an improvement over this coarse, ignorant, and unstable man!
11
"Yet her own life story, as a child...….who wound up being a law prof....United States Senator, gives the lie to that argument." That doesn't follow, Bret.
The system isn't "rigged" but it is very uneven especially when you talk about banks/bankruptcy, the pay day loan grift, inequality, etc. Things like: notice that every time there's lead in the water it is in black people's neighborhoods? I'm no "woker" but Warren is specific about what's fair and unfair. D.A., JD NYC
5
Gail I am really disappointed in your reaction to what Biden said about assassination. His point was what he had seen as a HS student and what the equivalence would be for his audience. Everyone in the room understood it...stop trying to be so cute by half...you are fueling the "but her emails" people.
The Chosen One who cried.
Please show some respect for God's Anointed.
Its sad so many take Bret so seriously.
Its kind of sad Bret takes Bret so seriously.
When there are so many obvious flaws, I mean.
Take, for example, his smug allusion to "capitalism".
He exposes his heavily partisan if not outright classist (are we allowed to call Republicans 'elitist'?) perspective.
Republicans deny, and apparently Bret forgot, that Capitalists are first and foremost concerned with the health of the society that sustains them. They know on which side their bread is buttered and they take care to slather it on.
American Capitalists, Bretian capitalists, do the opposite.
They get it into their pretty heads they deserve all the money that passes through their door. Profit, yes, excusal from taxes, the ability to refuse payment to creditors (our porky President's claim to fame), a drive to underpay workers who allow them lives of ease and time to go lobby down in DC at their leisure.
Carte Blanche to suck up or destroy all the resources they can carry. For free!
That's not capitalism. Its American Feudalism, the robber-baron state.
Bret seems to enjoy this unsustainable economic perversion, and it is a pleasure to seem him beam with joy when he wins one, but he's also a liar.
The American system is what the masters of capitalist economics warned against, from Adam Smith and Alexis de Tocqueville to all those other famous guys our fake-capitalists cite to support their plunder.
Which is why Bret will vote for Trump, in his sneaky kind of way.
12
I just don't get Bret's Pearl Harbor analogy to Republicans at the chamber of commerce. Can I do a Times crossword puzzle instead?
Also, Bret's remark that if we get a recession, Americans won't deserve it, is dubious. Maybe the Egyptians "deserved" plagues, frogs, pestilence, and facial boils for enslaving the Israelites. Maybe America needs a good economic shaking to wake up from our self-satisfied, celebrity-worshiping ignorance that put a narcissistic, hateful man, with zero political experience, in the world's most powerful office.
6
"If Warren is a capitalist, she sure seems to have an odd definition of the term."
Warren assuredly is a capitalist, in the best sense of the term, while the Republicans, who claim they have a monopoly on capitalism and patriotism, are capitalists (and patriots) in the worst sense.
Adam Smith discussed capitalism in "The Wealth of Nations" (1776), where he mentions capitalism only works for nations of people if the capitalists behave responsibly and are held accountable.
Republicans like to call themselves "free-market capitalists," which to them means "unfettered' or unregulated capitalism, where money and wealth are the end goal for the few who can connive their way to the top by exploiting labor, lying, and never taking responsibility or holding themselves accountable for the damage done. Slavery, the Robber Baron era, the road to the Great Depression, tax cuts for the rich while upping the military budget and federal deficit G.W. Bush and Trump style...
But capitalism WITH responsibility is just what Warren, in particular, is talking about and has written a lot about. Why are Warren's notions of capitalism popular?
Look no further than the financial and banking industry, the fossil fuel and Koch industries, and beloved right-wing GOP economists who say please the investors, and don't worry about employees and customers or pollution or good citizenship and stewardship and the decimation of communities and the environment.
It's a choice
9
I would love for all the anti-Trump Republicans to vote for Warren but, if they don't vote for either, it's still a vote that helps the Democrat because it takes away from the Republican base not the Democratic one.
Bret,
I was with you about Warren until the last debate (audition is my word). My opposition was not because of her innumerable plans, it was because, having watched her before, I didn't think she had the necessary presence and personality. The audition changed that for me. As for her plans, if elected, just like Obama who had ideas, her job would be to clean up the Trump sewage spill just as he was stuck with the remediation of GWB's messes. Therefore, I'm not concerned about what you think preposterous, if not monstrous. Some of her plans, by the way, are reasonable.
I have been pulling for Joe Biden, but lately he seems to be without the energy that people like Sanders and Warren (and even Trump) show. In the last audition, he seemed lost, if not confused. If these are problems for my vote, they are problems for others, which may be why Joe has slipped in recent polls.
A further explanation about my concern: There are Joe's historical "gaffes" which everyone writes about. I'm 74, a retired lawyer (48 years) and not an "ageist." In my career, I saw many fine lawyers and other professionals, men and women, go downhill mentally, sometimes it seemed almost overnight. It's a terrible sight to behold. I think that's what we are seeing in Trump over the past month. I'll leave it at that. John
5
Mr. Stephens,
A vote for a third party candidate is a vote for Trump. You can continue to critique Trump for the complete idiot he is but meaningless if you give sway to the idea that voting for anyone other than a Democrat will not mean the end of our democracy as we know it.
6
Gail Collins vacations in Cincinnati.
Bret Stephens vacations in the south of France and has a friend with a home in the Seychelles willing to let Bret live there.
Tells you all you need to know about Gail Collins’ and Bret Stephens’ respective world views.
18
Democrats seem to have belatedly figured it out. Finally reaching some level of long overdue enlightenment. The names now working for the 2020 candidacy have seen the need to revolutionize their thinking. All the result of the Democratic Party being on a detoured road these last 40 some years and with that the falling away of a significant portion of their traditional support base, the American worker/wage earner. Biden's a male Hillary and that's no good. Bernie's an old guy with too much baggage. Elizabeth Warren knows what needs to be done but after so much inertia identifying the Democratic Party she's chosen a radical bent which may serve to alienate the moderate voter. All this reads less as a whimsical fable than it does a national nightmare.
Who did Bret vote for last time? It seems to me like he got his centerist versus Trump dream match-up last go around and it didn't turn out so well.
3
So Bret Stephens won't vote for Elizabeth Warren because her ideas would bust the budget. What about Trump's tax cut that has already led to a $1 trillion deficit this year alone?
Furthermore, the tax "savings" did nothing for this country, except make the plutocrats even richer. We didn't get new roads and bridges. We didn't even get the extension to the Second Avenue subway that Trump is blathering about. We got nothing.
If workers receive a higher minimum wage, that money will be spent immediately to fuel the economy. If our workers are better educated, they will earn more, and, again, spend more, leading to prosperity. If people aren't crippled by insurance and health care expenses, they can spend that money buying homes, appliances, new cars, meals at restaurants--all leading to greater prosperity for all of us.
Cutting corporate tax rates has given us red ink, without encouraging companies to move their manufacturing home. Why is it, Bret, that Warren's ideas will bankrupt us, but Trump's tax cuts and trade wars will not? How dare you cop out and vote for a third-party candidate!
12
@Barbara Barran. I think Bret’s reply would be that Trump’s incompetence doesn’t negate Warren’s profligacy.
"For example, you can’t just get rid of employer-provided health insurance in favor of some form of “Medicare for All” without creating gigantic dislocations with immediate costs for millions of people lasting for years."
Why not? Every other "advanced" country has done it.
9
No, they haven’t. For one thing, they don’t generally HAVE Medicare for All. For another, the only country that imposed a new system quickly was Singapore.
1
@Robert
After WWII in, I think, 1948, every Brit got a letter saying something to the effect of: "Starting in July, we're all switching to the national health service. Enjoy."
Done.
You can argue all you want about the ins and outs and difficulties of making the switch.
Pointing out the ways in which other systems aren't perfect doesn't change the fact that every other industrialized country has some form of nationalized and/or universal health care, and that we are the only nation willing to let people die because they can't afford treatment.
1
I like Elizabeth Warren and hate to agree with Bret Stephens, but in order to beat Trump I think we need a portion of never Trumper Republicans and probably more important, independents. Independents seem all over the place in terms of idealogy, it seems to me. on the other hand, I think Warren will be great at defending herself from mudslinging and being called names by the Nasty man in chief. I also like Amy Klobuchar, but her campaign hasn't gotten any traction yet.
Sadly, I think we may also have to worry about the votes of Bernie's supporters if he doesn't get the nomination.
Vote blue, no matter who.
2
One would think, that at this point, investors, what is left of our allies, and trade partners would finally realize that they are dealing with someone who has absolutely no idea on what they are doing. To the world, and this nation, the President of the United States, until 2017, was considered a leader of the world and seen as a stabilizing force. While the US had it enemies, and issues, there still was a great deal of trust granted to a US president.
Mr. Trump has turned this on its ear. Though, he is not totally the blame, it took a number of decades for the US government to move to where it is now. This started post WWII and accelerated 50 years ago to the present.
Somewhere along the way, the US got a very large ego, as its leaders, politicians and political parties. Ihis as also fed by our allies, to the point that the US was the place to look to for help and guidance. And, the President of the United States was their point of contact.
Since 2017, the status quo no longer exists. At this point, until systemic changes are made, no one should trust what si coming from the White House. After this weekend, that realization may have finally sunk in.
2
What the democrats need is someone who has the jib to cut Trump to the quick, repeatedly, and with ease. If Trump's election did anything, it should have proved that at least half the population doesn't pay attention to politics one bit. No amount of debates harnessing their agendas is going to do anything for those people; they want to see a fight and a winner. Surely that is no mystery. It's why nearly half the country wanted a TV celebrity, because that's all most Americans do; watch celebrity tripe on TV. The democrats need someone with the cutting debating power of the late Christoper Hitchens. Failing that, I think most Americans would vote for a cartoon character - again.
1
I would agree with Mr. Stephens that Pete Buttegieg is the best available Democratic candidate but the rest of his analysis is not very smart. He says that he would vote for a third party candidate rather than Warren. The idea is to vote against Trump and a third party vote is a wasted vote since such a candidate does not have a snowball's chance of winning. It's almost the same as a vote for Trump.
5
I personally like Andrew Yang, but most folks won't even consider his thoughts. They're too, different.
NYC is a town dominated by hucksters, and their towers. The bailout of Wall St. made that city seem as different, as another nation to many other Americans. To my mind your views are somewhat stilted.
Life in the rest of our nation is a tweet away from some catastrophe or another. I'd hate to wake up one day and find Greenland in hiking distance from downtown Dallas, and our Chinese restaurants closed.
Do they sell egg creams in the Seychelles?
Not to worry. Trump won't be reelected! That's the most important issue in the 2020 election.
2
Mr. Stephens, I take argument your statement: “Yet her own life story, as a child of the lower-middle class who wound up being a law professor at Harvard and then a United States Senator, gives the lie to that argument.”
I grew up in the same era as Elizabeth Warren. I have had much the same rags to riches experience that Warren had. However, times were different back then. They were pouring money into schools, so I had a great high school education (computer science classes, physics classes that covered the general theory of relativity, etc. back in the 60’s). I went to U of Mich. as an out of state student when tuition was only $1600/year (equivalent $11185.66 in 2019). I worked construction to earn money for tuition during the summers. Between that and scholarships I was able to graduate with only $1500 of debt at 3% interest.
Under current conditions, this would be impossible. School funding has been gutted. Out of state tuition at U of M is $47148. A common laborer in Montana now can expect an annual income of $28789. In 1969 as a laborer I was making $4.00/hr (~$2,100 over the summer).
Yes, I worked hard to end up in a position where I make a mid-six figure salary. However, if I were unfortunate enough to come from a lower-middle class family and be graduating from high school in 2019 instead of 1969 my outlook would be drastically different.
Things have to change. People need higher wages, more school funding, better health insurance coverage, etc.
20
“But [Warren] lacks the honesty to admit that the only way to pay for it all is by levying immense taxes on the middle class.” —Bret Stephens
Bret, I tend to have a love/hate relationship with your musings, and this one really takes the cake. I’d like to remind you that about a year ago you said in response to Gail Collins, “...if it were up to me, I’d double defense spending.” And, so, tell me where the money to do that would come from? Oh, yeah—immense taxes on the middle class. Given a choice between health care and more high-tech nukes, I’ll take health care, thank you very much.
Oh, and as for a Plan B, I already have a home in southern France. It’s even air-conditioned. Come visit next time you’re in a sweat. Our Rosé is really nice a hot, humid summer day.
13
"nice, competent, unifying and nonexhausting" was Hillary Clinton...but you wouldn't vote for her, either.
16
Come on, Bret. The fact that Warren managed to rise economically from her humble beginnings does not mean the system is not rigged. Warren is exceptionally smart and talented, but one shouldn't have to be exceptionally smart and talented in order to avoid economic ruin in this country. Most people, average people, should be able to live a decent life. Statistics show that is harder today for someone to escape tower economic status than it used to be. That's partly because of political choices made by those who run things.
I encourage you to give Elizabeth Warren a second look, unless you really want to see the current president re-elected.
11
Will never read a column by Mr. Stephens again. Anyone who supports a 3rd party candidate supports Trump.
And his red-baiting Senator Warren is disgusting.
21
Bret - I love ya but please listen up. Stop it with this conservative bellyaching over how the Democrats need to bend over backwards to win specifically your vote. You and Brooks have this conceit that, unless the Democrats give you a Republican-in-Disguise as the nominee, you miiiiiight just help re-elect Trump. We see through the game, Bret, and it speaks volumes. To hear you tell it, you'd rather have our worst-ever president and all around terrible human being stay in office than suffer through a Dem administration that might slightly inconvenience you. Such a hero!
Gail is right that this vague threat to vote third party is worse than just staying home.
10
Let me get this straight, Bret Stephens: your strategy for getting your preferred Dem nominee is to threaten to pick up your marbles and go home (by voting for a third-party candidate should Sanders or Warren win the nomination). Your repeated denunciations, in this newspaper, of Trump as a threat to the survival of American democracy are hypocrisy in its most literal sense: a mask through which you get to strut your disgust while remaining unwilling to do whatever it takes to remove Trump from office. Your protestations lack any credibility whatsoever. Not merely disingenuous, they selfishly aim to absolve you of complicity in ensuring a second Trump term—which is all that a third-party vote can possibly accomplish. Pulling that lever, especially for a man of your intelligence, would be no less disgusting than anything Trump has said or done.
13
"Mayor Pete" is much, much more than a mayor.
Surely the Democrats have learned the value of 'the brand', which got an incompetent egomaniac all the way to the White House. Buttigieg deserves better.
3
"And a little child shall lead them." Is that biblical passage? I heard it somewhere. Trump ad nauseam dominates the Times and the Post. Why are so many "journalists" shocked at the shenanigans of trump. The first time my granddaughter who was 10 at the time heard him on TV she raised up from a reclining position on the couch and asked, "Is this a reality show?" If I describe trump in the kind of language he deserves the Times won't print it.
4
I agree that voting for third-party candidates is for self-indulgent, naive, immature and toddler-brained "adults".
10
Are you kidding Bret?!?! This is where you lose me (not that you care) - love her/hate her - if Warren is the nominee you MUST vow to vote for her. This is not a normal election - you mustn't divide the votes by voting Independent. Please!!! I love Mayor Pete and I'll back the nominee. Period.
2
Every day the senate fails to check this incompetent malevolent president is a day that the rest of the world learns that the US can no longer be trusted partner. This cannot go on without severe consequences for the American people.
3
Stephens; To write in Bill Weld, or some other third party candidate, because you cannot vote for Warren means that you are de facto voting for Trump. This is what happened with Hillary, and guess who is now in the WH. Some of the Seychelles islands may be under water and many thanks for the GOP/Republicans climate change deniers & Trump. By now, I hope many voters realize that elections have consequences, and some are real serious. Stephens, for a never-trumpian, you are surely in his corner and have been for a while!
6
Bret's vote for 3rd party if not a moderate Democrat" is only a threat. Otherwise he fits squarely in the bucket of deplorables.
2
Once again, a Republican asks the Democratic party to save the country from the nightmare that their party has become. . .by nominating a Republican.
Bret - maybe you should consider taking out your own trash. If you are so enamored of having a moderate Republican in the white house, your party should nominate that person.
The Republican party has set us on a path of destruction. We Democrats will, once again, be glad to do the heavy lifting to rescue the country. But, we will do it as Democrats.
3
As he lives in NYC, his presidential vote really does not count. Same for Gail.
1
It is breathtaking that a Pulitzer Prize winner would cast a de facto vote for a mentally ill president by opting for a hopeless third party candidate.
5
Hey Brett -- Elizabeth Warren is Pete Buttigieg 30 years on. Think after he's given up being mayor and moved to Harvard's Kennedy School of Government to lecture on urban policy. They are not so dissimilar. This may be why he hasn't gained traction. People see them both and think why not go with Warren, the candidate with more experience. We can wait on Pete.
3
Bret is a big Carl Sagan fan:
Trillions and Trillions and Trillions!
Unlike Bush's penny-pinching wars. Or the genius of cutting taxes for the 1% which resulted in massive trickle-down for us little people. As practiced by Reagan, Bush and now Trump.
Those pesky liberals just don't know the value of a dollar.
And (clutching pearls) Warren is not a unifier...in the mold of Gingrich, Ryan and McConnell.
Bret...as Enrico Fermi once said, you are so far off the wall, you're not even wrong!
3
"...the attack on Pearl Harbor was prompted in part by the Roosevelt administration’s effort to isolate Japan economically ...."
Stephens, read a history book and learn the facts.
"...if she’s the nominee I would vote third party."
Stephens, going the 3rd party route is a hypocritical, pointless, and self-defeating action, but that's typical for you.
3
They have the wrong fable. Everyone is tiptoeing around the obvious fact that this man has just plain lost it. Do need to have some little kid calling out that he has no clothes? BTW Warren-Buttigieg all the way.
3
At least we all share the same opinion of Bill de Blasio who's in the pocket of his large campaign donors. A crook in progressive clothing.
In Stephen’s eyes, Warren is as bad as Trump??? Talk about false equivalency.
Methinks thus has more to do with Warren’s gender than her actual policies or political history. Shameful.
5
Gail, time to take another look at O’Rourke.
1
Thankfully, Bret, you live in NY so who you vote for really doesn’t matter. NY will go by large margin to whomever the Ds nominate.
1
Hopefully, the story of the fisherman's wife, who asked the magic fish for a villa, then a palace, than to be queen, then to be Pope, and then to be God. And was sent right back to her hovel, for her avarice.
Maybe some children can trick Trump into an oven and then follow a trail of seeds out of this dark forest.
1
Mr. Stevens, all kidding aside, you as a staunch Republican who can't stand Trump and do see that he is doing untold damage to the country are exactly the kind of voter who need to summon your last bit of patriotism and vote for the Democrat candidate, even if it is Warren or Sanders. That is how serious the threat of a second Trump term is. Your voting for a third party candidate will be a vote for Trump. Nobody will thank you for that if he gets reelected.
9
"Bret: I think that’s an argument for Democrats to nominate a candidate who doesn’t alienate so many middle-of-the-road voters the way Sanders and Warren do."
I think its an argument to nominate someone who doesn't alienate so many Democrats and Independents.
Middle of the road is over-rated. There aren't that many of them. The political world is more polarized than that.
Those there are, don't really amount to the sort Bret wants. He wants a Republican who isn't Trump.
The "middle" don't want that, which is why all those other Republicans got so little support. Nobody turned out for Jeb or Kasich, even when Jeb started out with a $100 million bankroll.
5
@Mark Thomason
The two major parties are very different in terms of policy preferences. The majority of Republicans want the party to move right, while Democrats prefer more centrist policies. One thing that does unite them is opposition to Trump and all things Trumpian, while for the GOP it’s just the opposite.
1
@Mark Thomason -- Democrats who won't vote for the Democractic nominee because he or she isn't far left enough are just as bed as Stephens.
Not voting for the Democratic candidate in 2020 = voting to leave that man in office.
This ideological purity will destroy the country.
Bret betrays here the larger republican sentiment that it's easier to criticize passionate Democrats than to do the actual soulsearching necessary to fix their own party.
3
Another great conversation between a far-right neocon and a center-right moderate. What an incredible exchange of diverse viewpoints!
@Sandor
Whether people like it or not, for now, America is a center-right country.
Hold your breath, stomp your feet, jump up and down -- it still won't enable a leftist Democrat to win the presidency in our current electoral structure.
If Mr. Stephens really believes a vote for a losing third party candidate is better than anyone but Trump, he needs to take a break as a pundit and get out of New York. Preferably to spend time in some place other than France, like Iowa or Montana. When the country is suffering as much as it is now, to be complicit in a Trump re-election is a cardinal sin.
11
"If this triggers a recession, Trump will deserve it. But the American people definitely won’t."
wrong. the Americans who voted for trump richly deserve it.
5
Yep, I made the upward economic class transition Mr. Stephens is talking about. I worked 80 hour weeks for 2.5 decades, but that wasn't it. I was born in an era where a college education was affordable, college loans were not predatory, home mortgages were not predatory, health care was cheaper, banking was regulated and boring, stock buybacks were illegal, political dark money was illegal, taxes on the wealthy were higher, multiple unpaid internships were not a thing, it was possible to raise a middle-class family on a single middle-class income... Get the picture?
Those conditions no longer exist. What still does exist is people who, having made it themselves, are oh, so eager to pull up the ladder of social and economic mobility for everybody else. What also exists are people who would use my economic mobility to justify their own economic position against my interests. Moderates is not the right term for these people.
15
At this point, voting for a third party candidate because you think Elizabeth Warren is extreme is a vote to continue the insanity of the current corrupt president. We are in the midst of climate collapse, the Amazon is burning as well as much of the rest of the planet and Mr. Stephens is worried that Warren is extreme? We are in a time of extreme global change and we desperately need someone who understands this. We may soon reach the point of no return. The seas are rising, Mr. Stephens, and you want to hand out teaspoons.
9
Bret Stephens has clearly never tried to open a small business. We don't have capitalism right now - we have kleptocracy and a severely rigged system where healthcare access and monopolistic practices are employed aggressively to squelch free markets. Saying that Warren is anti-capitalist is like saying people who believe professional sports should have referees are communist.
8
Mr. Stephens I understand your angst with regards to Warren, as I share some of those misgivings as well. However, voting third party in light of what DJT has done to this country is a monumental mistake. I am a centrist and in a perfect world I'd like to have a centrist nominated but there is no chance that a progressive liberal like Warren or Sanders is worse than the buffoon currently residing in the oval office.
4
So Stephens believes that Elizabeth Warren, who worked her way up from a non-privileged youth to a Harvard position and Senate seat, is proof that the system is not rigged. I’m sure Stephens also believes there’s no racial issues anymore because we elected Obama ten years ago.
Stephens is a never-Warren voter more than he’s a never-Trump voter. And, actually, that’s not a surprise to me. Like many other Republicans, including almost every House member and Senator, four more years of a racist who lies continuously and embarrasses this country at every opportunity on the world stage, is a better choice than electing a woman with brains, social conscience, and integrity.
The only bottom line that emerges from today’s column is that Stephens, like the rest of the GOP, chooses party over country.
15
Conservatives like Bret won’t vote for Warren, Bernie purists won’t vote for Biden. People, WAKE UP. There is no Democrat—none—who could possibly be a worse president than Trump. Not even Marianne Williamson. A third party vote is a vote for Trump. Staying home is a vote for Trump. To beat Trump, voters must vote for the Democratic nominee. Period. They must also vote for Democratic House and Senate candidates. And state legislators and Governors. Four years from now, or eight, you can reclaim the luxury of voting for a niche third party candidate if you’re really bent on strict ideological identification—-after the current existential threat to our democracy has been neutralized. We have a president who is both a malignant narcissist and in a state of cognitive decline. We have a Senate that has shown it will indulge and protect the president no matter how he undermines our democratic institutions. And it’s not an excuse to say you live in such a blue state your vote doesn’t count. Trump and the GOP must be defeated by unassailable margins. He will contest anything state that looks close. There is a real possibility he will refuse to leave the White House if the election is close. We need not just to kick him out, but to eject him with such force that he achieves orbit. Vote Blue No Matter Who.
7
Bret, don't let those lesser-of-2-evil-doers try to limit your choices! Unless the electoral college is one day scrapped, we in New York have the luxury of voting 3rd party without spoiling anything for anybody. Florida & Pennsylvania residents (and 7-8 other states), I'm sorry you folks need to have a sober discussion about not letting the perfect be the enemy of the good. Meanwhile Bret, I'll see you at the Green-Libertarian debate!
1
"I can’t cast a ballot for Warren or Trump. Which, to repeat, is why I earnestly hope Democrats come to their senses and nominate a centrist."
I think you'll find a lot of people out here in the middle of the country who feel exactly the same way. For once I agree with Bret that Warren or Sanders are a disaster when it comes to winning the election.
Take heed, progressives.
It's Michigan, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania you MUST win unless you've figured out how to get Texas. In that case you can nominate Jimmy Crack Corn.
3
What worries me is that now we are told "Republicans in the Chamber of Commerce mold" are our last, best hope to rid ourselves of Trump. I was hoping for more from Bret and his party.
1
In 2020 a vote for a third party candidate is essentially a vote for Trump. There is no place for cowardly symbolic gestures.
2
I love their dialogue! It is interesting, well informed, personal and most of all, humorous (:
1
When North Dakota, South Dakota, Nebraska, Wyoming get 12 electoral votes and the south side of Chicago (with WAY more population than all of the put together) gets 2 or 3, THAT is a system worth tearing down.
4
Mr. Stephens wants to move to the Seychelles after casting a presidential vote which does not do anything to remove the current occupant. Okay, but most of us don't have friends like that.
At Mr. Stephens:
In the 2020 election scenario, you are either part of the problem or part of the solution. There isn't a middle ground upon which you can balance. Either you vote for or against individual 1, or you toss your vote into the wind. If you do anything other than vote meaningfully against, all the words you've written mean nothing as you don't have the courage to support your words with actions. Forgive the familiarity, but it's that simple, dude.
4
You don't get to the center by starting in the center. We have shifted so far to the right that Warren and Sanders are considered radical. In Northern Europe, they'd be conservative.
Mr. Stephens still hasn't figured it out - while he was vacationing in France, American farmers were losing their farms, Americans who got sick were losing their houses, and American workers were losing their jobs. But vote for Warren? Nevah!
Thurston Howell the 3rd would be proud.
9
Wow, if Elizabeth Warren were able to bring universal health care, free daycare and subsidized college education to the US, we may wind up looking like that dystopian hellscape of, well, Southern France.
5
Our political life is like a parasite, awaiting our blood in some place where we feel safe and comfortable. But when we awake we find out that we have been attacked and what we thought was comfortable and safe is in fact not.
1
In politics there’s always a regression towards the mean. A purported leader could be a complete goofball and nearly half the population would favor him just because the other half doesn’t. If he occupies the stage then he’s the topic of discussion. Get him off the stage.
1
Warren’s story says that, while the system once worked, now it doesn’t. Is that not clear to Brett?
2
The Amazon's burning,
The GOP needs overturning.
Arpaio's running for sheriff,
trump's raising a tariff.
It's all so very concerning.
3
Really Bret? You'll vote third party over Warren? She's not my first choice either but I remember 2016.
What was that thing about learning from history or being doomed? Something like that anyway. You should look into it.
2
Just so there's no confusion on this point:
Voting for any third party candidate, or not voting at all = voting to re-elect that man.
2
"How about 'nice, competent, unifying and nonexhausting' for a change?"
"Warren being completely coherent scares me more than Biden being his garrulous self."
"...I earnestly hope Democrats come to their senses and nominate a centrist."
Is Bret just looking for a political candidate or a talking doll?
If Warren secures the nomination, I expect Bret's commentary to include suggestions like "she should stop taking things so seriously" and "maybe people will like her if she smiles more."
1
Trump labels all democrats "the enemy", he keeps a rotating administration in order to not have to go through silly things like confirmations, he creates emergencies and disasters, and then miraculously comes up with the remedy. Never before have we witnessed such an absolutely clueless con artist in the White House. I'd take a thousand Richard Nixon's to one Donald Trump.
1
Wrong Gail, voting for a third party makes a lot of sense when you support the policies of the third party. Dems won’t even host a climate debate. Warren has my vote, Biden...ugh.
1
“the system is rigged” Bret, check out the tax system. Start with "Carried Interest".
3
It beggars belief that someone who at least claims to be intelligent would vote for Weld over Warren. A vote for Weld is really a vote for Trump.
2
Bret's word “meltdown” may turn out to be the search term that brings this piece up when historians study what we’re now going through with Donald Trump.
There’s something wrong with the man on top of moral underdevelopment, and it's probably due to the electoral accident that has come to bedevil his life of golf and TV. King Lear was a mediocre man who recklessly dispensed power. Donald Trump is a base man who recklessly acquired it. Now Trump's farce is starting to look like Lear’s tragedy.
It's hard even to sort out all the pernicious factors that have been suggested or that suggest themselves. Narcissistic Personality Disorder. Dementia. Schizophrenia. The tendency of power to intoxicate, where no avenues for corruption remain. White-supremacist paranoia. Common perversity unchained. Spoiled-rich-boy decay.
Not all that’s outrageous about Donald Trump is evidence of an unsound mind, but there’s evidence of that, too. It just keeps blending in with the usual noise, and so we move on to other topics. Some of Trump’s recent behavior, if it cropped up in a normal presidency, would make a stunning spectacle of mental breakdown.
To one who is not a mental-health professional, and apparently to some who are, there’s no question about the dangerous state of Donald Trump’s mind. The only question is, How much harm will come of it? What price Greenland?
Mr. Stephens, don't blame Elizabeth Warren for your own inability to grasp the utter failure of Republicanomics. What you spitefully call "tearing down" IS necessary, requisite reform of a system that is already broken for all but a small fraction of households. Your criticism is ill conceived. And, whatever you choose to call it, your intention to vote for a third party candidate is a vote for Trump. And that .. is a travesty.
3
Bret,
IF Warren is the candidate swallow hard and vote for her. If you are going to vote third party, you are wasting your vote and that scenario is how we got stuck with the current Individual One.
2
Bret Stephens
Is there any female candidate for whom you would vote? Just asking-- a lot of people are not against female leadership in the abstract but they have objections to any actual candidate. Kamala Harris -HRC -Tulsi Gabbard etc .etc . Bet none of them are "mainstream"
just run down he list and see if any actual woman could get your vote
2
Bret is stuck in ideology rather than patriotism. His choice, obviously.
2
Just when I start to like Bret, he tells us he is going to vote for Trump by proxy.
2
I do not understand the doubt when it comes to what trump will do..... he will do what he haas done in business. he will let his ego guide him and he will eventually crash and burn rather than back away from the abyss. I think we are now looking over the edge.
2
Now whenever I see Bret's byline I'm reminded of the tweeting of a tiny bird.
Bless his heart.
3
Bret's opinion of Warren simply means he is not listening, typical conservative reaction.
When Bret says that if Trump's game of chicken triggers a recession, Trump will deserve it but the American people won't, he's dead wrong: the American people elected Trump - not by popular vote; but by not voting at all. Then Bret confesses he'll do the same again if it's Warren!
The opinions of that "privileged white man" - weren't they supposed to know better? - are exactly why Trump's in office, y'all. Why is Gail agreeing to talk to Bret anymore?
2
I do not understand the doubt when it comes to what trump will do..... he will do what he haas done in business. he will let his ego guide him and he will eventually crash and burn rather than back away from the abyss. I think we are now looking over the edge.
Mr. Stephens,
It is people like you who gave us George W. Bush and Donald Trump. Don't waste your vote on somebody who has no chance of winning. Any of the Democrats would make a hundred times better president than Trump.
2
Mr. Stephens, like 99.9% of Democrats, perhaps more, we don’t give a hoot about whom you will vote for in the general election. Instead of voting for Weld in a Warren/Trump matchup, I’m surprised you wouldn’t write in “Netanyahu” on your ballot. As a principled, protest vote of course.
1
Let's not kid ourselves. If Warren gets the nomination, Bret wouldn't third-party his vote. He'd definitely vote for Trump.
The dormancy of Bret's bitterness thrives on "no there there" indifference. He's worst than a cat.
Nothing that Elizabeth Warren will do (or Hillary would have done) will reach the levels of utter reprehensibility of this administration. I can't begin to imagine 4 more years of this nightmare. For heaven's sake vote for whoever the Democrats nominate regardless. Don't vote 3rd party because that's as bad as voting for the Mandarin Menace.
1
Should we be as afraid as we are embarrassed?
Are we more one than the other?
Is a 'true choice' not impossible?
(In a world according to trump … Is "more impossible" possible? Dramatically … if not grammatically -- but drama will survive him, and grammar may not.)
Gail Collins is smart, politically savy and correct, thoughtful and funny. What is it that makes her want to 'chat' with Stephens?
3
"If this triggers a recession, Trump will deserve it. But the American people definitely won’t."
Sorry, but no. We elected him. Ergo, we deserve everything that's happening.
'We hold these truths...' and 'We the People...' say everything about our collective aspirations for our nation, and for our government. All humans are created equal. Life, liberty, pursuit of happiness. Promote the general welfare.
*We* did this. *We* need to fix it.
The more appropriate fable to cite instead of "the boy who cried wolf" is "The Empreror's New Clothes".....when will everyone realize - and be able to admit - that the emperor has no clothes?!
Anybody but Trump. Anybody!
Warren is my last choice, not because she isn't highly intelligent, but because she has schoolmarm charisma and Trump will probably beat her in the midwest just the way he beat Hillary.
"How did our political life come to seem like a fable"??
Well, basically electing a fictional character as President will do it....
1
A "capitalist" believes in private property and in individual effort and reward. Senator Warren fits that.
I respectfully suggest that Mr. Stephens, like many others, confounds capitalism and (lack of) regulation. Regulation and capitalism are not mutually exclusive. Regulation provides for fairness and honesty, and thus gives capitalism legitimacy.
I believe Sen. Warren is correct that the system is "rigged" in the sense that capitalism without regulation leads to the strong getting stronger and the weak getting fleeced. That's plain to see in both the historical record and in the notion that businesses are to be run for shareholders' benefit.
(For what it's worth, I am a capitalist too. I have an elite MBA and have worked with big business for decades.)
1
We are all exhausted by the endless, self-absorbed inanity and insanity of Donald Trump.
Both Gail Collins and Bret Stephens need to get better grips on their biases. Bret Stephens should wait until Elizabeth Warren has a chance to explain why her plans would not raise the deficit by trillions, because she probably is much better at math than he is. Gail Collins should wait until Joe Biden talks his way out of the nomination before she lets despair take hold.
It’s encouraging that both Collins and Stephens recognize that Democrats should not go down the garden path with Bernie Sanders again.
1
Actually, I think Andrew Yang is the smartest one in the group. And, he is not offensive in any way, knows what he thinks about virtually every conceivable issue and lays his cogent thinking out for all to examine. His appeal is broad - from Trumpsters to Bernie Bros. He's the only politician I see with the demeanor of a "unifier." As he says: Not Left. Not Right. Forward. (Together)
2
Given Mr Stephens political party of choice, it is not surprising that he is against a women with strength, intellect and personal power... She probably scares most of my fellow Republicans and she should. The context of who is in control of the Senate and House is as important as the next new occupant of the White House. If "Moscow Mitch" and the CEO /Shipping Magnate who heads the Dept. of Transportation still have the jobs, I am sure the US will be headed for a Depression that makes '29 look like a party.
Bret, I'm disappointed in you. I'm not a fan of Warren and don't understand why she can't adopt the very sensible "Medicare for All Who Want It" plan rather than frighten potential voters with threats to take away their current healthcare with which they may be happy. This, to me, is not the candidate who can beat Trump. (Also, her hectoring vocal style will turn off many people as it reminds many of their mother on a bad day or Sister Mary Ruth from fourth grade.) However, if, in the end, it is she, I'll vote for her. The main goal in this election is to rid the world of the horror of Trump, THEN we start rebuilding. Bret, how could you live with yourself if he got elected again?
2
Sigh. I've been listening to Elizabeth Warren since before she ran for the Senate. She has consistently talked about the changes in the country that began to slowly impoverish the working and middle classes, starting in the 1970s. As other commenters have noted, she herself benefitted from the circumstances that existed before that time.
Elizabeth Warren is a reformer, not remotely a "revolutionary." She proposes to reverse a number of wrong-way turns the U.S. has taken since the 1970s. When she says the "system is rigged" all she's saying is that a cabal of corporate entities have co-opted most sectors of our national government through "lobbying" which is known as "graft" in other countries. That's just old-fashioned corruption. Corruption calls for reform.
1
Smh. Sometimes Mr Stephens gives me such hope...and then he reverts back to this.
Despite his anti-Trump rhetoric, he made it clear in this column he has yet to recognize the threat Trump is.
There is no 3 way race in the US presidential election system. He suffers from the same delusion and immaturity that affected the 2016 third party voters. Time to be an adult - it’s not what you want, it’s whats best albeit not perfect.
It’s country/constitution over policy and “ism”.
There was no capitalism, health insurance etc in 1787. There was ideas of rule of law, democracy, constitutional structure and process, republic, truth, honor, etc.
Save those first. The policies can be negotiated, voted on, etc later.
1
The way to 'solve' the Democrats dilemma between their progressives and their increasingly-wide moderates is to have a split ticket. How about Biden-Warren or Warren-Booker or even Warren-Harris? After the nominee has won the primary, it usually makes sense to balance that individual with someone representing another part of the country as well as the political range of the party.
At this point, the Democrats need to choose their favorite candidate. Later, they can show support for the nominee. It's a mistake to seek a compromise before you have had a chance to push your views. Let the process play out.
1
Once again Bret Stephens displays his never ending conservatism even in the light of a potential disaster of a Trump re-election. To vote for a third party candidate because he doesn't like Warren's left leaning opinions demonstrates to one and all that his is really not interested in a slam bang defeat of Trump next year. He'd rather support Buttgieg who doesn't have a chance in hades to win vs. the front running candidates.
But, he'd vote for Biden who seems to be fading into a gaffe oblivion. He looks tired, and at times slow in thought, but Bret sees him as a panacea to Trump. Incredible!
At least Gail has some political sense about her realizing that a capitalist like Warren is not a "democratic socialist" like Sanders, and that she is a winner due to her incredible ability to understand all areas of policy.
The old adage is a vote for a third party candidate is a vote for Trump just as it was in the last election. So, that means Bret doesn't really care, or doesn't understand the ramifications of not having every vote go for the Democrat regardless of who wins the nomination.
I read this column because of Gail Collins, and not Bret Stephens. To me his comments are erratic dependent on what happens on whatever day. If he thinks that voting for a third party might not influence others to do the same then he is asleep on the job.
Every vote counts, and it must go Dem this year.
2
The point of this election cannot be to win but to make Trump lose. It is unfortunate, but the Democratic candidate most willing to play on scorched earth should be the one who gets the nomination.
1
Bret just doesn't understand economics. For example, when someone like Warren proposes things like "health care, the environment, free college, child care", He asks
HOW WILL WE PAY FOR IT? HOW MUCH WE WILL NEED TO TAX OR BORROW TO PAY FOR IT?
That's the wrong question. The federal government can create as much money as it needs out of thin air. It can PAY for anything. What are the right questions?
Well, first of all we have to ask will the new money cause too much inflation? That leads to other questions. Since prices depend on other factors besides the amount of money in the economy, we have to ask how useful, how effective, will the new money be in domestic commerce, & how much new production will be caused by this new money?
If the new money just sits in the vaults of banks or is just used for financial speculation by the Rich, it will not raise prices very much. (BTW that explains the absence of inflation since 2008 in spite of the FED pouring TRILLIONS into banks.) But in this case, it won't help the economy very much either.
If the new money causes our production to increase, that will LOWER prices and mitigate the effect the addition of the new money has on prices. The new production will soak up the new money.
Fortunately, the things Warren and Bernie want to do, health care, the environment, free college, child care, etc., are exactly the things that will increase production.
Bret doesn't appear to understand Warren's argument about how the economy is rigged. He states that "her own life story, as a child of the lower-middle class who wound up being a law professor at Harvard and then a United States Senator, gives the lie to that argument." That's not correct. Warren argues that the system was fine when she grew up, and provided her with a lot of great opportunities. But that the system has changed dramatically since then, and NOW is rigged. Her life story is simply an example of how things could go before the system became broken.
5
I have to disagree with Gail's opinion that voting third party is worse than staying home. Voting third party registers a protest, whereas not voting at all as a protest registers exactly the same as apathy or laziness.
In 2016 I voted for Jill Stein as a protest. I did so with the luxury of a 99% certainty New York would go overwhelmingly for Hillary Clinton, which proved to be the case. Get rid of the electoral college and that calculus changes, another good reason for doing so.
1
What Brett and the naysayers won’t acknowledge is that these seemingly “free” services that Warren and Sanders are pushing, coming from increased taxes, is offset by higher company profits (more tax), hopefully higher pay (more tax), huge savings in health care premiums and costs currently going to administration and profits, huge savings in school costs and tuition.
Someone should do the math.
2
"BB"'s claim that he'll vote for Weld as a third party candidate is improbable, since he's running against Trump, and, anyway, if BB lives in NY, then it won't matter. Florida, and the rust states, yes. (Maybe)
Anyway, if he's into pushing centralist candidates, then maybe he could shout out Sen Amy Klobuchar. I too think Sen Warren's ideas are really good, but she doesn't have a viable plan to actually implement them - does anybody think the 0.1% are going to give up their fortunes to help the little people? Sen K is a fighter and will clean up the cesspool/swamp left behind - and maybe go after Trump after we kick him out. And realistic to maybe implement "Medicare Access for All" in stages and have a plan to pay for it.
Mayor Pete needs more real political experience - smarts only gets ideas - tenacity gets results.
1
So it was really hot in the South of France this summer. Not to worry. The magic hand of the free market will cause many providers of rental property to install air-conditioning! Maybe even by next year. Which will solve the nasty heat problem totally. Yay!
1
The way things are right now in America we all need to take a step back and let things cool off a little. The republicans need an intervention and the democrats need to chill out a little.
Dear Mr. Stephens,
We all have favorite candidates who speak to our hearts, and those who do not. But please do not choose idealistic hubris over reason. When it comes down to it, we must use our precious votes to save our country (nay, our earth) rather than throw votes away toward satisfying our personal egos.
Kindly,
Sheila Ray
6
After watching how well Bret S has dealt with Twitter criticism over the last 24 hours (/s), it is a wonder that any one would ever come to him for advice again.
5
Brett, a vote for a third party is a vote for Trump. I always thought you were a smart man, but i think I have to change my mind!
5
Mr. Stephens ... a vote for anyone other than the Democratic candidate is a vote for Trump. I'm afraid it's that simple. It's a binary situation and you have to choose.
6
Now, Bret,
Cool your jets right now. It might not be Sen. Warren who becomes The Chosen One at the DNC Convention in 2020. I'm like you, in that I like what Mayor Pete has to say. I've sent his campaign money. I like him for a number of reasons. For one, he answers questions clearly, precisely, and he enunciates (very important for a person like me who relies on augmentation to treat hearing loss). Though he is constitutionally old enough to be President, I'm sure many potential supporters think that he is too young. Half of voters likely don't have a problem with Pete's being gay and married to a man; but I suspect the other half of the electorate are troubled by it.
Look at the process with a little foresight. Pete may not be the choice on Election Day. Perhaps none of the senators in the race will be, either. Yet whoever receives the nomination is going to be hundreds of times better-suited for the office than Trump. For one, Trump and his word cannot be trusted. He lies all the time nowadays, and made up "facts" all the way forward. I'm sure he told at least one person, à la Suzanne Sugarbaker, "I'm gonna lie and cheat and scheme my way into becoming the most trusted man in America." It more or less worked, but it was wrong to begin with.
Let's see how the debate process works out. And, if it does turn out to be Sen. Warren v. Trump, so be it. Her policies will be pared and whittled by Congress, as it should. Just don't go 3rd-party on us, okay?
5
Professional member of the Republican Commentariat, Brett Stephens, just revealed Republicans’ worst nightmare: the nomination of Elizabeth Warren as the Democratic candidate for President. The Republican elite clearly fears that, if nominated, she will win and, when elected, she might just keep her promise to help the working poor and middle class, unlike every Republican candidate in the last fifty years who made vote-garnering promises, then cut the taxes for the wealthy and ran up the deficit which they then partly paid for with increased taxes on and decreased services for the working poor and middle class. In the Republican Party it simply doesn’t do to help the litle people.
Of course Bret engages in his usual dishonest tactics to attack Warren. That an exceptionally intelligent woman rose above her humble beginnings in no way proves that the system isn’t rigged against the majority. Wanting to improve the system does not equal tearing it down. And does any thoughtful person really believe Bret would vote for a Democratic candidate if that person constitutes what he defines as a centrist? No, Repiblican-Party-uber-alles man Bret will vote for the Republican candidate, even if it is Trump.
9
Is Bret talking to the Russians in the Seychelles? Or what doesn't he understand about Trump? A simple conspiracy theory with lots of evidence is that everything he does is scripted by Putin, including crashing the American economy with his erratic trade policy. Do some reporting and get us those logs of his meetings with Putin or the content of the emails with his secret direct computer connection from Trump tower to the Russians.
And instead of dismissing all of Warren's plans, tell us specifically what you object to. For example, we already spend a fortune on healthcare every year at twice the price with poorer results than other democracies. Democrat plans would redistribute this to be more equitable, and might even bring the price down. Tell us what you, Bret, think about distributive justice, just so we know that you know what it is. One thing that you might understand is that having a job to get full coverage healthcare insurance, if premiums are paid through withholding, is a big incentive to have a job, and would increase tax revenues across the board.
Then there is the Environment and switching to renewable energy. We ordinarily spend on infrastructure anyway, and in this case if it costs a ton more, it's both worth it and necessary. We now have oil transportation because they got there first. Electric from solar/wind/hydro will work just as well and actually be cheaper, and with incentives plus investment, the market will make this happen. Capitalism.
4
Things are rigged. This is why the numbers of people who rise from humble beginnings to economic prosperity has been dropping so much over the past few decades.
The American Dream used to be a realistic dream. Now upwards mobility is much harder to attain, because Republican cuts to higher education support and assaults against the unions have made it harder to reach the middle class.
And they've made it easier for the wealthy to get wealthier and to have nearly unlimited power to influence the levers of government. In other words, the Republicans have rigged the system toward the natural tendency of unregulated capitalism to favor economic and power monopoly.
3
Stephen’s argument that Warren’s own life “rising from lower middle class to Harvard professor” is the kind of bad faith argument I have come to expect from conservatives of my generation. Mr. Stephens knows full well that the America that made it possible for Ms. Warren’s family to survive its personal challenges without being destroyed financially no longer exists. He knows this because he watched it as he cheered on St. Ronnie, and the Bush and Koch Gang as they dismantled it.
10
@Mark - Does he know full well? He strikes me as remarkably naïve and uninformed. It's a mistake to think someone with a decent vocabulary is intelligent and aware.
1
Sen. Warren's point has been that the rigging has occurred relatively recently, that young people now cannot do what she did because the current minimum wage is far below a living wage, and the cost of college is exorbitant.
What really impresses me about Elizabeth Warren, and what has not been given sufficient attention, is the following: She had preconceived notions about bankruptcy, but then she did the research and realized that what she had been thinking was incorrect, so she changed. She did the research, found out the facts, and began working from those facts.
Presumably as president, Sen. Warren would recruit high quality individuals to her administration to continue to obtain real facts and make policy based on those facts.That is such a refreshing, and essential, contrast with the Trump Administration, which obliterates facts it finds inconvenient, along with getting rid of researchers who report those inconvenient facts. Bret Stephens should be willing to vote for her based on that alone.
7
Michael Bennet!
Loved his intelligent passionate exchange with Ted Cruz on the senate floor blasting the government shutdown.
If any of you have not watched this, I highly recommend doing so now.
Also, if you were repulsed by Brett Kavanaugh you might be interested in hearing Bennet's speech arguing against his confirmation.
He would make an excellent American leader.
I am hoping that a smaller debate field in a September will allow some of the other candidates to shine through. Hopefully, ABC does it’s part too by asking pertinent questions - how about a few on foreign policy? I’m with Bret on Pete Buttigieg, after reading his policies and hearing him speak, he should be polling higher. Unfortunately, because of Mr. Trump, for many voters the only criteria in their voting decision will be - can candidate X beat Trump.
1
I hear tell that there are actually Republicans who are running for office and whose initials are not DJT. Some of them already broke with Trump, which is a good start, before they decided to run for office. It seems to me that if your basic Main Street Republican had a choice in the primaries between a good old-fashioned ethical, honorable, patriotic Eisenhower Republican, and Trump, the other guy would win and Trump wouldn't even be in the running.
3
“Alternatively, a generous friend of mine has a house in the Seychelles he’s offered to let me stay in for an indefinite length of time if things get much worse. Assuming, that is, the Seychelles are still around. We all need a Plan B.”
Most of us do not have the options that quintessential elitist Bret Stephens does. And of course he’s drawn to the most elitist Democratic candidate as well, Mayor Pete Buttigieg whose didactic, schoolmarmy pronouncements would not seem to be an across-the-board vote getter.
2
At this point, I would vote for anyone who can complete a sentence without lying. It doesn't even have to be grammatical, just honest. The litany of lies told by Trump in just one trip to France -- everything from "I'm an environmentalist" to "the Chinese called me twice about a trade deal" to "Melania has gotten to know Kim Jong-un" to "our farmers are doing great" -- broke even his past record for mendacity in such a short time.
14
OK, I got suckered into reading this column although I have sworn off reading anything from Bret Stephens. This confirms my resolve never to read anything by him. If he can't see that things have changed since Elizabeth Warren's early years, that Republicans want to destroy all safety nets for middle Americans, and that Warren actually wants to change our system to help people who work for a living, then he has his head stuck too firmly in the sand for me to credit anything he says.
20
Bret Stephens just makes me want to scream. I cannot for the life of me understand how he thinks voting for a 3rd party candidate in a plurality electoral system is not a total abdication of his civic responsibility. He decries Elizabeth Warren for not being honest enough to admit her policies would result in a middle class tax increase, then displays a monumental dishonesty himself by saying he would never vote for Trump.
Listen carefully, Bret: A 3rd party vote IS a vote for Trump, because it IS NOT a vote for his only viable opposition. Until we completely reform our idiotic electoral system we'll keep electing presidents who lost the popular vote, thanks to men of principle like Bret Stephens voting their conscience for no-hoper 3rd party candidates like Pat Paulsen.
And all this ridiculous hand wringing over Warren's plans. Elizabeth Warren can promise anything she wants, but unless we also get McConnell out of the leadership, nothing she proposes will see the light of day. Even then, I don't see a Democratic monolith in Congress frothing at the opportunity to give her everything she wants. Good grief, I thought you understood politics.
Bret's threat to vote 3rd party unless the Dems come up with a better candidate sounds like he'll hold his political breath until he turns blue if we don't do what he wants. Grow up, and do what's right. 4 more years of Trump, this time as lame duck president, will make the first 4 look like a picnic at the beach.
20
Jim, I agree that four more years of DT is terrifying. My fear is that it will NOT be a lame duck term. There is only one thing more horrible to contemplate, and that is eight more years. Well, TWO things....8 years with Ivanka waiting in the wings as his VP.
I understand Twitter on Bret Stephens this morning.
He is Trump over Warren - think of that.
9
Ugh. Gail Collins, you have the patience of a saint. I personally am so sick of hearing bad faith and specious attacks from the likes of Brett and the Morning Joe/Davos crowd(poster children for the "rigged" system) on Elizabeth Warren and other progressives. The first thing he says about her in this column-using her life story to contradict her claim that the system is rigged, is a lie. Warren herself talks constantly about how cheap college was for her-in other words, the system was less rigged 50 years ago, IN HER WORDS. Furthermore, progressives are asking for what the vast majority of the industrialized world ALREADY HAS, and Brett's response is to brush this off as crazy and "nightmarish". He's either ignorant himself, or running with the assumption that his readers are ignorant, and too lazy to investigate his claims. Gail, I don't know how you keep your cool.
7
Why would helping the citizens of the US rely on huge taxes for the middleclass? Why not huge taxes on billionaires and millionaires. Every time I see that a reality TV star has rented a yacht for one million dollars per week, or rented a 747 for a private party for six people, or the thought that Trump has spent 110 million tax payer dollars to play golf, I think that that's a lot of money that could help the environment, or help pay medical bills, or help repair infrastructure. Tax the rich for a change!
4
Bret Stephens states that Warren’s own life story belies her argument that the system is rigged. This assertion shows that he hasn’t bothered to listen even in the most cursory way to what Warren says. Every time she tells the story of her own upward mobility, she goes on to say that the system that lifted up a young woman with no family resources has since been gutted. Gutted by decades of “fiscal conservatism” that Bret Stephens supported.
19
Bret, an alternative way to pay for Senator Warren's plans that nobody dares to suggest is by decreasing the funding for defense, which is higher than everybody else in the world, and it might be higher than the next 10 more powerful countries in the world combined
13
This fable is an episode from The Twilight Zone.
1
Mr. Stephens I hope you read the comments, I really do. It’s August of 2019 and you are already a Never Warrener. It’s not a good or a fair look, and I wonder if you have been paying attention to the evolution of Warren as a candidate. As someone with a national platform in the NYT you need to consider being a little more circumspect about talking third party voting over a year before the election. Ms. Collins seems pretty adept at changing her mind when the evidence warrants it - you, not so much. Why is that?
21
Mr. Stephens is more than a bit off when he states that the American People “don’t deserve” a Trump caused recession.
In this case, H.L. Mencken was right when he observed: “Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard.”
Apparently, they still show up at Trump rallies ... and Fox News.
3
A vote for a third party this year is a vote for Trump. Don’t do it, Bret.
8
Baloney, Stephens. You know if you vote for a third party candidate it is essentially a vote for Trump. That gives you the ability to vote FOR Trump while saying you didn't. You're not fooling anybody, especially not Collins.
19
Very nasty to Senator/ Professor Warren.
The Senator is a Democrat, unfortunately she is a capitalist as well. But the Professor can think beyond a spreadsheet and a think tank, Brett Stevens.
3
Bret Stephens would rather re-elect a grossly unfit, mentally unstable, immoral republican to the highest office in the land than vote for an extremely qualified, lucid, informed, experienced woman. Bret claims it's about politics but deep down it's about who reminds him most of himself and he just can't vote for a woman.
24
"Warren being completely coherent scares me more than Biden being his garrulous self."
Wait, what? This is stunning. A candidate being completely coherent scares him? What?
19
Third party candidate, Bret? Which William Weld isn't this time around, btw? Might as well vote for Trump. What a cop-out.
4
If Warren becomes the Democratic candidate expect four more years of DT.
1
The huge egos of O'Rourke and Abrams may cause a Republican Senate when a Democratic one is very possible. Beto and Stacey are acting like spoiled brats even more than Donald.
3
Biden’s gaffes are minor when compared to those who stated the liver is in the heart, origins are oranges and the rockets red glare related to Valley Forge.
3
I've always looked forward to reading the Collins/Stephens debate during my train ride into the city, mainly because Ms. Collins artfully destroys Mr. Stephens each and every time. After the insanity of the last 3 years, the fact that Stephens would support Trump via a 3rd party vote is stunning to me. To say he bugs me, really bugs me, is an understatement. The best thing he can do is crawl back into bed and pull the covers over his head until after November 2020. We don't need any more Trump apologists in the NY Times.
9
@Catharine Gall
Thaaaaat's the comment I was looking for. 100% agree. You are cleverer than I at getting your sentiments across.
Stephens' opinions rival those of the pests who would rather see the world burn than upend the status quo even a little.
1
Bret,
Voting third party is what got Trump elected. If you actually want to help a madman get re-elected, you are a fool. Further, Ms. Warren is an exception to the "rigged system," and she knows it. She lived the lower middle class life on the brink of bankruptcy, but she fortunately has the luck and exceptional intelligence and persistence to escape and thrive. Most Americans living one paycheck from bankruptcy don't have those fortunate traits nor luck.
4
Whoa, Bret, Warren is just "modern" as in "first world". She is moderate. The GOP has done a number on people convincing them that anything "first world" is leftist. All while Trump salivates over Putin or pick your tyrant and denies reality in general via rotating tweets.
1
Should we be as afraid as we are embarrassed?
Are we more one than the other?
Is a 'true choice' not impossible?
(In a world according to trump … Is "more impossible" possible? Dramatically … if not grammatically -- but drama will survive him, and grammar may not.)
1
Sorry guys. Tariffs should have been yelled long time ago... years and years about the time that Apple decided to manufacture its computers in China if not before.
We should make not design things in the USA... (now we make military equipment in Saudi Arabia!!-- geez.
Starting in the 1960s, after the rebuilding of Europe and Japan post WWII, the CEOs started constructing factories to make goods to be sold in the USA abroad. When did you last buy something made in USA? How often do you buy food -- and I don't mean cheese and wine - I mean fish, veggies -- made or processed in a third world place. (I don't know that I believe in the end that this keeps prices down but I do know it makes CEOs rich!)
Cincinnati is a lovely city -- the art museum with its exhibits of Cincinnati/Ohio arts and crafts-- exceptional and Glendale with its Victorian homes a interesting suburb. Then there's the Taft Museum an Fort Ancient up the little Miami.. But in truth, the weather in NYC is better! ;-D
1
I don't understand why it's Biden or Warren in Gail's mind. There are many other candidates and we need to give them a chance. It seems so misguided to rule them out especially so early in the game. I'm pulling for Klobuchar, Steyer, and Yang. Very different from one another but they all inspire much more confidence than either Biden or Warren or even Buttigieg who is just too tame and temperate to be a leader. He doesn't have enough fire in the belly.
The crazy talk is Bret asking for advice in how to replace the US economy's savior with Scary Bernie or the Nutty Professor. Joe "where am I?" will leave the primary building shortly, I think.
This conversation makes me long for “terrible” candidate Hillary Clinton.
She’s not looking so terrible now.
4
The throwaway line about the friend with the house in the Seychelles was a tell, Bret. Unintentionally revealing and a magnificent metaphor for conservative thinking : “ I’ve got mine, you’re on your own.” I’m disappointed with you.
Sad.
19
Graham: "...the American people"?
America is not a country. America is a continent. Therefore the majority of: "...the American people..." can't vote.
You ask an Argentinian or Canadian if they can vote in the U.S election and - unless they are deluded and believe that the U.S owns America - they will tell you that they can't.
There should be absolutely no surprise about Trump's tactics, if you can call them that. History tells us that this is precisely how he "negotiated" when he was grifting his way through the real estate business. He just spews out whatever comes to his brain pan at that moment and then later is happy to flip flop. He calls it a "technique," but it is anything put. It is simply the unfettered ravings of man-without-a-clue. It didn't work when he was buying and selling real estate and it certainly doesn't work on the world stage.
What we, and the rest of the world are witnessing is Chance The Gardener. Just a much more disturbed and nasty version.
Bret is worried over Warren, and yet has no problem heading to his buddy's place in the Seychelles ("The primary political parties are the ruling socialist People's Party (PP), known until 2009 as the Seychelles People's Progressive Front (SPPF) now called United Seychelles (US), and the socially liberal Seychelles National Party (SNP).[26]."
7
...”nice, competent, unifying and nonexhausting” describes Joe Biden. He’s a plug and play candidate, no boning up on what to do. Warren is perfect as VP. Her gender wouldn’t get in the way as second fiddle and her brilliance would round out the Oval Office. Mayor Pete could fill a cabinet post, brilliant enough to fill two!
Beats me why Presidential nominees so often choose an unknown quantity running mate until they gum up the works, Palin; or who sit around vacantly with a twitchy smile, Pence.
2
In the same issue of the NYT is an opinion piece from one leaving the State Department. Rebuilding that department will be one of many jobs a Democratic president will need to do. Is Warren really that scary, Mr. Stephens? Or are you a closet Trump supporter, which is what everyone in 2020 who wastes their vote will be?
3
Tired of Bret trying to run away from his brother Republican Trump. Bret's nonsense about Trump changing their party is absurd. This is the Republican party.
3
Why did anyone expect anything different, or better, or more rational?
Oh sure Bret, throw away your vote and then skedaddle our of the country leaving us to suffer another four years of sheer madness. Thanks pal! Throw away votes are always a terrible idea, but in 2020 they’re unconscionable.
3
Please, everyone who splits hairs and wants to vote third party instead of maximize the changes the disaster in chief gets booted out can move to the Seychelles for all I care. Bret, I'll even buy your ticket.
4
Maybe the Democrats need a hard hitting media star - Taylor Swift is smart & tough; Al Franken?; The Rock? Leroy Jethro Gibbs (i.e. Mark Harmon.) They would generate HUGE buzz.
You didn't have to tell me Bret was an editorial writer for The Wall Street Journal, it is obvious.
His logic as presented in this column what got us trump.
3
A guy who vacations in the South of France calls out Elizabeth Warren for suggesting the system is rigged! Ponder that for a moment.
7
(Bret) We’ve tried “scary” long enough. How about “nice, competent, unifying and nonexhausting” for a change?
The fact Bret finds Elizabeth Warren is 'scary' is pretty indicative of just who has his ear in the South of France and elsewhere. People like his old boss Netanyahu, for instance, would no doubt fear Warren was someone more in the Obama mould, a president who wouldn't be so easily manipulated and controlled - hmm, maybe that is scary after all, for Bret and his old pal, that is.
2
Joking aside, I wonder how long the Seychelles will remain above water.
I would like to have Mayor Pete Buttigieg as my President. In fact I'd like to have any of the Democrats as my President. I just do not want Trump. Fear of losing may narrow our choices. Warren and Sanders may be too scary for middle America. Sadly, I think the reason for Mayor Pete not getting the nomination is something neither Gail or Bret mention. He is gay and has a husband, Sorry but it is not yet time for an openly gay President. He is rationale, a vet, smart and would be such a better fit than what we now have.
2
In the coming election I may not be voting for someone but I am definitely voting against Trump. Not much on Warren but she has to be better than what we have. Bernie same only more so. Third party candidates are just a vote for Trump so that is out for me
5
Bret is right about Warren and wrong about voting third party.
The only way Warren beats Trump is if ANY Dem can beat Him. Might be true. Is it worth the gamble? Third party voters like Bret make that a bad bet.
5
What stood out to me about Trump's latest pronouncement was he's not going to alter his friends' plans for extracting fossil fuel in order to let us survive the deadly effects of climate change. That demonstrates their short-range thinking in a nutshell.
In my state of Pennsylvania fracking, pipelines and plastics manufacture is in the works contrary to everything we know about pollution of the environment. My granddaughter knows this. Will the polluters wake up in time?
Plan B is pie in the sky.
4
The mildly conservative Times opinion voices will continue to bleat about the need for a centrist even as the voice of the people scream out for substantive change. Whether the NYT likes it or not the only serious Democratic candidates are Biden, Bernie, and Warren. Biden will fade and will look more and more uncompetitive as the race continues. Warren is a woman, and shrill, and in the end will be a second choice. Once again Bernie will stand as the people’s choice whether the DNC or the NYT likes it or not. Trump is not weak as a vote getter and has a good chance of beating Biden or Warren. But Bernie can beat Trump walking away. That is the great conundrum that the centrists must deal with, they don’t like the guy most likely to win. We saw how this played out in 2016 and don’t want it to happen again but the centrists have to make a choice: Trump or a socialist. Last time they picked Trump as the lesser of two evils and how has that worked out for them? In the choice between fascism and socialism I know how I would vote. Let’s hope our centrists have learned something from their last mistake.
2
The title should be: '' The lad who cried TAX on you ! ''
The subtitle could be:'' the lad, who then used YOUR tax payer money to use Socialism to prop up his base - namely farmers''
Now that we have that out of the way, we are FAR from picking any Democratic candidate/ticket (of any that is going to sweep to power in an historic and massive electoral landslide). We are also FAR from locking in any true platform, as said candidate will reflect those policies.
Putting aside there will be a big cull of the candidates down to 5 or 6 (maybe 7), one factor was not talked about in this column - the President trying to dominate the news cycle.
As his (and republicans' in general) polls numbers really start to crumble to historic lows, there are more and more extreme utterances and actions the President is trying to make. Hard to believe, but we, AND the media are truly starting to become numb to. (took more than two years ! )
From now until the Democratic primaries beginning (let alone election day) is a very long time, and the president is only going to become even more unraveled as his poll numbers go even lower.
Of course the one thing we have to fear is the usual republican trick from the play book of starting a phony war.
We know with whom.
4
Voting third party would seem to be the way to help re-elect Trump although, from a northern perspective, your electoral college will probably do that anyway. God save America.
7
I share Bret's concerns regarding Elizabeth Warren. Her ideas are not doable, not within the context of how most Americans think including me. Yes she would rake Trump over the coals in a debate but that does not mean enough people would vote for her. The sad thing about this endless primary with too many candidates is there aren't many to get excited about as I did with Barak Obama when he entered the race for the 2008 election. The only one who stands out for me is Mayor Pete. My fear is not that he is too young but the fact that he is openly gay with a husband who would replace 'first lady'. How many people would not vote for him for this reason, would stay home, vote for Weld or heaven forbid vote for Trump. Besides at least he has some management experience and has won elected office when Trump was never elected dog catcher or anything else. I thought I would be all in for Biden but I'm not. Not Biden and not Warren so that leaves Mayor Peter. I think I'll go send him some money.
3
Maybe the 2020 election is the one where you don't vote, Mr. Stephens. You seem to be at such odds with reality, goodness, and intelligence.
21
I have some doubts about Warren's health care proposals, and hope that she'll have the sense to offer some incremental steps toward her goal, plus a clear explanation of the tax structure that will accomplish its funding. Why tax the middle class - it's the super-rich and corporations that need to stump up. But I have another thought. If Edward Warren and not Elizabeth Warren was running, would Bret Stephens feel differently. His willingness to throw his vote away rather than vote for this competent, qualified rational individual, which would help keep the current incumbent in the White House makes me wonder if he has a problem with the idea of a woman in power. Opinions, anyone?
7
Is Bret really that dense that he doesn't understand that the system currently in effect is not the same system that was in effect when Warren rose out of her lower middle class childhood to become a college professor? Things have changed over the 70 years that Warren has been alive and so has this country. Sadly Bret is trapped in the Conservative narrative that has commanded the minds of the country these past 40 years - the idea that money is the alpha and the omega. It is this narrative that created the wealth inequality that even Bret can't deny.
I personally do not think Warren is the best choice but at least she is trying to break through the narrative to show that the rules we have lived with are in fact lies. Unregulated, free-market capitalism was not what this country was founded on and even Adam Smith knew enlightened self interest was required for this system to work for the benefit of all. In a world where nothing is providing the enlightenment maybe the government needs to step in and provide some guidance or at least restrict some of the most blatant greed. The system is rigged - campaign finance, the court system, the tax code, the education system, etc. all favor the wealthy and connected and it's only gotten worse in the past decades. To have a president aware of this social inequality and interested in addressing it is not the same as someone wanting to make us a socialist nation. Bret should be able to see and understand the difference, but...
11
Other readers have already pointed out that Elizabeth Warren's story does not prove that system is not rigged. What should be mentioned also is that, as EW has pointed out, when her father lost his job her mother's minimum wage job was enough to keep the family afloat. These days it would take five years of full time minimum wage earning to pay for one year at Harvard.
15
Has anyone considered that Trump (who can make the stock market go up or down by his tweets) and his agents take advantage of this power by select buying and selling.
10
@Donald Forbes
I did, I thought about their ability to influence and take advantage of stock market swings.
3
Neither Gail nor all of the commenters so far seem to be able to get through to Bret on the essentially irrational position he insists on taking (and as an opinion columnist, promoting) on voting third party because he simply cannot abide by Warren's policy proposals.
And he simply won't listen to anybody who takes issue with him on Warren's capability, rationality and commitment.
Bret would cast a vote -- obliquely -- for the irrational and thoroughly destructive anarchist he openly despises over the thoroughly rational and demonstrably capable candidate he regards as an anarchist on philosophical principle alone.
Bret is the epitome of the trump voter 2020 -- 'the Democrat would be worse.'
Your presumed and presumptuous integrity is no virtue at all, Bret.
And aren't you a little concerned as to WHY it was so hot in France, Bret? trump's not concerned either.
22
Stephens' view that Warren rising to becoming a professor shows the system works is the worst form of " I have a friend who is..." thinking and I dare say bigotry against the millions of Americans who suffer one of the highest poverty rates in the OECD. Everything Warren -- and Sanders -- are calling for represents the basics of a civilized society. The USA is expeptional, but sadly, in the worse ways.
10
Bret uses warren’s rags to riches story as undermining her point about rigging. But she tells it to contrast with how things are today. The inability of a min wage worker to keep their house or low income kids to access higher education. Weak thinking Bret.
12
Voting for the third party? That does not help anyone. It’s a cop out.
7
It's not a cop-out. It's just not a sensible choice. Several times I wanted to protest by voting third party, but I realized it's senseless. The closest I got was registering as an Independent. I had to re-register as Democrat because in my state Independent meant I couldn't vote in primaries.
1
Let's be clear here: what Bret Stephens is saying is that if it came to an election between Warren and Trump, he'd be voting "I don't care, let Trump win." Because that's what a third-party vote means.
You cannot legitimately mention "DTCT" and say you think the current president might trigger a foreign attack on US soil in one paragraph, and then go on to state that you can't bring yourself to vote against them because their opponent might, gasp, raise taxes. If DT is such an existential threat, then you have the obligation to vote to elect his opponent.
This is why the Republican Party has lost any dubious claim to intellectual credibility it might once have had.
17
"Yet her own life story, as a child of the lower-middle class who wound up being a law professor at Harvard and then a United States Senator, gives the lie to that argument."
Right there is the fallacy of using a single instance of something to disprove the whole. Sort of like saying Canadian health care is awful because aunt Mary once had to wait six months for a hip replacement in Canada.
14
A few observations about your observations.
The two of you are such poor name droppers. Absent in your exchange is Harris. Don't got her mad.
Overlooked in your analysis of Trump, tariffs, China, etc., is what most likely is really motivating Trump - "What would my buddy Putin want me to do or say?" Vladimir most likely would tell Donald "Let's bring down the west and China at the same time. That will leave just us two and you get to build that luxury condo/hotel in Moscow."
You are both correct when it comes to Mayor Pete. If I were the front runner come convention time, I would enlist him to be my wingman. If Biden can keep it together and not look dazed and confused too often, I think Biden/Buttigieg is the winningest ticket. It is also a path that would provide Democrats with a long game plan. After 4 or 8 years with Biden at the helm, the Oval Office might be passed to a Buttigieg/Abrahams ticket. Talk about "where did the glass ceiling go?"
But to get to that, you first have to get through Warren/Sanders. And here it gets tricky from a delegate standpoint come convention time. If either one of them were to bow out, it might spell disaster for say Biden. However, if they both hang in there until the bitter end, they will split their delegates, something that would favor a candidate like Joe.
Most important Brett, help set a good example for our children. Stop this "third party" nonsense. Imagine if all those environmentalists who voted for Nader voted for Gore.
5
So Mr. Stephens wants to get rid of Trump but he wants others to do the dirty work for him. I guess his principles are just too pure to go all the way and vote for a Democrat, even though that's the best way to achieve his goal. Perhaps Mr. Stephens should go back to the South of France and think about it a little more.
6
Bret Stephens is right. Mayor Pete has the Presidential goods to lead... and would have stellar numbers in the polls if, sad to say, he had a woman on his arm. Gail Collins is right, too. After last week's Trump show of lies and gaffes the urgency could not be greater than ever that one vote for whomever runs against this dangerously inept incumbent. No third party voting.
2
The only thing scary about Warren is the fact that she scares some people. Is she lost just a little bit of the stubborn stridency (her "Bernie" attitude) she would be the top candidate. As POTUS she wouldn't be able to push through radical "no private insurance" and free college anyway, in DC gridlock, so no reason to scare people with it. Obama's hope and change was awesome, but he got blocked so many times. Just get rid of Trump, please.
3
I would love to see either Bernie or Elizabeth debate Trump. And Pete debate Pence!
3
Hopefully Bill Weld will be the GOP nominee then Brett can vote for him and we can all be happy, even if he wins.
3
There’s no hope unless we elect a different president. And, news flash Mr, Stephens, it won’t be a third party candidate. Don’t waste your vote, vote for “the Democrat and let’s get this nightmare over with.
6
Bret, you do realize that any policy Warren puts forward actually gets initiated and voted on by both houses of Congress? You're being intellectually dishonest to think that her policy proposals are going to end up the way they are currently written, and what they cost. We already have had Presidents who have signed off on increasing budget deficits and debts the last fifty years, they all have been Republicans with Republican Congresses.
14
So Bret wants Trump to win. At least he finally showed his true nature after pretending to be shocked, shocked by Trump’s antics for so long. He clearly wouldn’t vote for Warren, not because he understands what she’s about and what her plans are, but because he won’t bother to actually go learn about her. He chose the most simplistic path, just calling her “a socialist.” That’s awfully lazy for someone who doesn’t strike me as lazy.
But it’s no surprise. Bret’s been threatening to withhold his vote unless Democrats nominate the kind of Democrat he wants, namely a Republican. The next time he wrings his hands about Trump we’ll know that he’s really okay with it all.
16
I agree with another comment made here: at least pretend to care about average Americans!
Do stay in the Seychelles and the South of France. And, Bret Stevens, take a hike - there!
Can't vote for an educated US Senator because she asks radical question like "who is the government going to work for?" The multinational corporate interests and the 1% and the elites or for the struggling working families and those trying to save a 'checks and balances' government, and for the young entrepreneurs and people, native born and immigrating, who want to build up and prosper in the USA - or for some of the most glib and clueless columnists now at the New York Times (once a valuable source of informed, educated and civically minded, democratically-leaning discussions of opinion and current events, including what works for working people, in the USA? No more.
4
I am waiting for Gail and Bret's innovative solution to China, how they are going to convince the Chinese to commit to fair trade and to stop stealing our IP without incurring any domestic economic impact.
I'm waiting for Trump to do something about their IP theft. Nothing he's done so far addressed that.
2
Me. Stephens voting for a third party is like a Vegan ordering meat from a restaurant because he didn’t like the Vegan choices.
He’ll feel ill in about 24 hours, and his stomach will ask “What were you thinking “?
2
So Mr. Stephens is still in denial. The world is burning. Let's elect someone who DOES care.
4
Trump is not a mystery.The world does not follow his lead, it reacts to his insanity.
Years ago a fellow with greatly diminished mental ability and a house full of children was persuaded to get a vasectomy. The doctor explained what it would do. The fellow went to a nearby men's store and said he would like to rent a tuxedo. It was a small town and everyone knew everyone and the store owner asked ,in a kind way, why Bob needed a tuxedo. Bob explained that if a man was going to be impotent he should look impotent. Bob was a much kinder man than Donald but they have a lot in common.
I would so love “nice, competent, unifying and nonexhausting”...
I think Warren can play to a centrist audience. She was a Republican before she worked in bankruptcy law.
Anything other than a vote for Trump's opponent is a vote for Trump.
3
Gail Collins is my favorite columnist along with Marina Hyde of the Guardian. They're both funny and insightful. In fact, she's so funny that I like her exchanges..even with Bret Stephens. Keep it going.
2
I think it's great that Bret has a generous friend with a house in the Seychelles, of all places. When things start to get really bad, he'll be able to escape to a tropical paradise to weather the storm while the rest of us in the 99% will be stuck in the thick of it.
As for his proclaimed preference for a(ny) third-party candidate in a Warren-Trump contest, unless that person might be able to siphon off Trump supporters (unlikely), they must then be able to garner support from enough Democratic voters to match Trump's 40% (also unlikely). All it does is make it more likely that we'll (and the rest of the planet) be stuck with another four years of this abomination.
But what does Bret care? He'll be chillin' in the Seychelles.
Get off that sanctimonious, holier-than-thou high horse, Bret, hold your nose, and vote for the best choice.
1
Bret says:
"We’ve tried “scary” long enough. How about “nice, competent, unifying and nonexhausting” for a change?"
as if things are going to snap back to the old version of 'normal' once the Republican President has been dispatched.
Why does Bret think things haven't been permanently changed by what Complicit GOPers have wrought ? Where's his evidence ?
And Gail's right (um er correct, I mean) that voting for 3rd party candidates is a decision to throw away your vote for POTUS.
As for any of the Dem candidates to be called revolutionary by a GOP supporter - following Loopy 45* and his edicts disguised as Executive Orders - they really need to be made to stand up in front of their office mates, and read any daily news story about 45*'s golf outings or Executive Time, inserting the names Obama or Clinton for 45*'s.
Only this exercise (which cannot be conducted with a straight face) brings things home to GOPers; only then do they realize the lasting permanent damage that's been done, which will prevent a snap back to the old normal - there will no longer be different sets of standards for Dems than GOPers, and GOPers will have to adjust to the new reality.
I like Joe, a lot. And i know he has a good heart. But I am so tired of a President who cant handle the English language. Longing for a corherent message that is fluent and dependable.
2
Talking about Mayor Pete, Bret Stephens says “I think he’d make mincemeat of Trump in a debate”.
Trump has no plan to do any debate.
1
Bret, you know perfectly well that a vote for anyone other than the Democratic candidate is a vote for Trump. If he wins in 2020 in a close race due to a 3rd party candidate, how will you feel about that vote? Personally, I'd be deeply ashamed.
3
Bret Stephens, whom I admire and almost always agree with, is not correct when he says that Mayor Pete would "make mincemeat of Trump in a debate." In a real debate where winning would depend on the reaction of a normal audience----anyone could make mince meat out of our leader with his immense repertoire of "D.T.C.T.: Donald Trump Crazy Talk".
But Donald is unique: First he has an abundance of facts that he makes up on the spot and he can't be pinned down to any opinion or action because he never said or did that--it was Obama or Hillary. Secondly, Donald wins if his base of supporters nod assent. If Mayor Pete presents a strong, logical argument--our Donald will swing into personal attack and focus on the Mayor's sexual identity and all the tax increases [makes no difference whether they actually were passed] that the Mayor has passed or we "plans to pass." It is hard to win a debate against an out-and-out liar who does not answer questions directly but deflects to his alternate-facts world . Slyly the Donald will always talk about how evil the Mayor's supporters are--- how they are murders and rapists---no matter the topic. It's hard to win a debate against a fool if fools are the judges.
3
‘[Warren’s] conviction is that “the system is rigged” . . . . Yet her own life story, as a child of the lower-middle class who wound up being a law professor at Harvard and then a United States Senator, gives the lie to that argument.’
Actually, Warren’s life gives the lie to propaganda that we still live in the same political-economic system that she grew up in. Everything that once leveled the economic playing field and everything that gave anyone without vast sums of money any voice in the political system have been systemically eliminated over the last 40 years.
3
If Bret votes for a third party candidate over Warren, knowing the third party has an iceberg's chance in the climate crisis, he's chosen Trump. Any way he frames his point that that Warren is not digestible to him, the horrifying ends (four more Kafkaesque years) will not justify his cutesy means.
3
"I can’t cast a ballot for Warren or Trump. Which, to repeat, is why I earnestly hope Democrats come to their senses and nominate a centrist."
After highlighting Donald Trump's appalling personal behavior, racism, instability, and rank incompetence for the past two and a half years, Bret Stephens suggests that the key difference between Warren and Trump comes down to policy. Go ahead, Bret, throw your vote away on Bill Weld. That will ensure that you'll have plenty of grist for your outraged Trump op-eds through 2024.
Warren is a conundrum to me. She can't be dumb enough with her c.v. to believe that borrowing from Bernie's extreme policies will win an election. The word "socialist" would appear on TV screens so often in RNC ads that the public will think they are living in the USSR.
If that is true then the only thing I can imagine she is thinking is that all of the primary energy is with the progressives. There are no credible centerists (although I agree with Stephens regarding Buttigieg he will never get past the South Bend shooting). She will have to gently elbow Bernie out of the way without alienating his fan base, claim the nomination and then make a huge pivot to the center. As in "it was all a joke- I really don't want to dismantle capitalism and take away your employer sponsored health insurance" and do that without appearing to betray those who believed in her primary nonsense like government health care for illegals residents. It would be one of the great political feats of all time.
Her problem is that as a woman she will face much of the closet misogyny Hillary Clinton dealt with and the additional baggage of extreme policies- a prescription for a landslide loss to trump and setup the improbable likelihood that the worst candidate to ever run for president will win twice.
I read Stephens' statement that he will vote for a third-party candidate over Warren, and am both incensed and terrified. Unless that third-party candidate siphons away Trump supporters, then his vote will only be a vote for Trump. And in what will be the most important election in American history, where the reelection of Trump would serve as a bullet to the head of our wounded country, a vote for a third-party candidate would be a crime. I will curse that third-party candidate and anyone who votes for them, as I curse anyone who supports Trump now.
2
… because third parties were so effective in 2016!
3
I’m for mayor Pete. He can close the deal!
1
There is something uncomfortable about this format for the delivery of opinion. It feels elitist and biased. I am not a fan of the current president and will never vote for him, but these conversations play right into the view most Trump voters have of east coast elites - who they think run the world of deplorables from Washington and Manhattan. Consider ditching this feature - if you can bring yourselves to get over how smart you are.
1
Has anyone received their tariff check yet? I search my mailbox every day, but it never comes. I need the money to buy a new Swedish car.
3
I see that Bret Stephens is parroting the line of the American Enterprise Institute, as recently espoused in this paper by Greg Weiner, that "the system is rigged" is a wild-eyed, nutty perspective. I expect that we will soon read variations on this theme from Mr. Brooks and Mr. Stephens.
2
Don't hear the phrase 'the wisdom of the American voter' much anymore.
3
Bret, really? You say you can't abide Trump and SEEM to abhor the idea of his winning in 2020, but apparently, your feelings don't run that deep if you'd rather vote third party than for someone who actually has a shot at beating Trump.
Maybe I just need more coffee, but I am grumpy and annoyed at your jokey response. It's not funny anymore--none of this is.
2
I’m thoroughly tired of hearing a Republican pundit like Brett or various Democratic commentators say that Mayor Pete, or Elisabeth Warren, or Kamala Harris et al. would “make mincemeat of Trump” in a debate. Trump’s base wouldn’t care (or realize) if he ended up looking like yesterday’s mashed potatoes during a debate - they will still vote for him. The only way to get rid of this malevolent presidency is for every eligible Democrat voter who draws breath, and particularly those who didn’t vote in 2016, to get behind the Democratic candidate and go to the polls and VOTE!
4
@Susan Who cares about a debate when one side lies constantly? It might as well be a wrestling match - it means nothing.
1
The perfect bookend for DJT's "Trade wars are easy to win!" comment would be "Who knew that prison would be so hard. But at least some of my family is here with me."
1
So Bret would have Trump over Warren in 2020. Considering how very solid Elizabeth Warren is, I wonder how much her gender influences Bret.
Republicans who can summer in the south of France are both lucky and boring.
6
Medicare recipients pay a premium for the Center of Medicare and Medicaid (CMS) based on their income and one for their Medigap (the 20% portion Medicare does not cover), administered by a private insurance offering various benefits approved by CMS.
Under Medicare for all, employers who are now providing health insurance for their employees will have to continue providing health care coverage and pay the premiums on behalf of their employees who will now be covered under Medicare (for all).
Can any of the candidates articulate this point to the American people in a simple lucid way ? That their employers will continue to sponsor their health insurance(s)?
....and when/if leaving their employment the same coverage will continue without any lapse in coverage, paid for by a new employer or the person himself if retiring or becoming unemployed (with subsidies for those who have the misfortune of not able to afford such premiums ).
1
Bret,
I couldn't vote for Bernie, who is not a Democrat or a coalition builder as an acquaintance of mine in the Senate said "Bernie can't get out of his own way" and I think he would be as destructive as #45. Warren however is pragmatic, a coalition builder and inspiring. She is a terrific leader and debater. A third party vote is a wasted vote. I hope I don't have to leave the space blank.
2
Bret actually makes a good point when he talks about voting thiird party. A right of center moderate could strip enough votes from Trump to give the election to the Democratic candidate. Ross Perot did it in 1992 and 1996. Bill Clinton won both elections with popular pluralities.
1
Those who voted for Trump in 2016 along with those who voted for 3rd party candidates and those who stayed home are responsible for our current disaster. If Trump wins in 2020, the same groups will be responsible for the 2nd season of Trump's reality show (Demolition derby). Without the possibility of running for a 3rd term (I can only hope!), he might be worse.
I pledge to vote for whomever the Democrats nominate and assume responsibility for the outcome.
20
How about Michael Bennet? He was managing director for the Anschutz Investment Company (business experience), Superintendent of Denver Public Schools (executive experience), is Senator from Colorado (purple state).
I heard him on the Commonwealth Club and liked what he said and how he said it. He’s charming, intelligent, articulate - and can I say it, a white, straight male - that might work with some previous Trump voters who aren’t ready to vote for a woman or etc.,
I like Mayor Mike and would happily vote for Warren or Harris but for me, turning Trump out of office is JOB ONE. I want a candidate that Brett would vote for. How about Bennet?
1
I think Bret should sit down with Elizabeth Warren and have a conversation. It might do wonders for his perspective.
For me, I think the Democrats and the country need a fighter. A fighter for the 90% not the fat cats who don't need any help since they seem quite capable of buying their way in. We need someone to get enthusiastic about to drive turnout. As time has gone on Elizabeth Warren has done nothing but climb higher in the polls which suggests as people listen to her they agree with her. As she told me personally in Aurora, CO "we're going to do it" and I hope WE DO!
6
The rigging was done, mostly by Republicans, over the last 30 or 40 years, which is why Warren made it out and can still make her claims. Look at the data, man.
The rigging: 1) Citizens' United; 2) decimated labor power; 3) corporate buy-backs and other corporate welfare.
Give power to labor, take money out of politics, and stop corporate welfare. System un-rigged and fully capitalist!
964
@WJL
Easier said than done. Money will always creep in, because there are always opportunists who will hide behind the garb of piety and honesty but crave the easy abundant cash. Out present Administration has used them. True, in the past Republicans contained the corrupt crooks , but I fear that if the Democrats won, the crooks would switch parties.
4
@WJL +gerrymandering
22
@WJL
You haven't spent any time in a union hall have you? You are against rigging and you want to give power to unions? In my 45 year career I have worked with 5 unions, I haven't found an honest one yet. This could be why union membership is below 10% nationwide everywhere expect for government. If union membership was such a good deal people would not have to be forced to join a union. Instead, when given a free choice, people leave unions in droves.
5
All the data shows that income inequality now is greater than at any time since the depression, but all Bret can say about why the system is not rigged is that Warren got a job at Harvard. The country is in the pitiful state it is in under Trump precisely because conservative preconceptions are impervious to facts. Bret is Exhibit A.
12
Stephens: "Because she (Warren) thinks the problem is the system, her politics are all about tearing the system down."
To one who has both white and male privilege, wanting to revise a system that favors those two characteristics to make a more level playing field must seem like they want to tear it down.
And as far as Warren's life story belying her goals, remember Ginger had to do all the same dance steps as Fred but she had to do them in high heels and backwards. Fortunately, most smart women make it look easy. Warren included.
5