Calm only because the government has issued an interim order banning the protesters from the airport, according to the China Daily newspaper in Hong Kong. No mention of all the tanks and troops in China not far from the border In the newspaper yet.
10
If China is such a lovely country how come NZ gets applications from citizens of China, continuously, for REFUGEE status in NZ. The only reason we don't read about it and are kept uninformed is because of strict communist censorship in the media. Print what the communist party wants or go to the mines in North Korea or similar. Lest we not forget what happened to that USA citizen, who took a poster off a hotel wall for a souvenir who returned to USA brain dead. China and North Korea have the same types of attitudes to anyone who don't tow the party line.
14
Why in the world would Donald Trump want democracy to exist anywhere? Especially in the US.
His whole shtick is to be a strong man and to impose his will on the hapless rubes that live in disarray at his feet.
4
1. Democracy isn't the way out for Hong Kong.
2. Some of them are protesters. Some of them are rioters and thugs.
3. They are fighting a war they know they cannot win.
4. They are disturbing the regular lives of their fellow Hong Kongers.
5. For those pro-democracy cogs, on what grounds I ask, do you think these protesters are actually doing something beneficial for their fellow Hong Kongers?
6. Capturing the news reporter is a violation of basic human rights.
7. People should have a choice of not believing in democracy. These people have no rights to make that decision for others.
7. China will step in. I hope Hong Kong will realize the cost of their democracy before it's too late.
27
“It’s unclear what information, if any, Mr. Trump has.”
Evidence clearly shows time and again, for many decades now, that trump does not need or want any information (aka: facts).
he just makes it as he goes along, or allows others (aka: fox) to make it up for him.
5
Updates by the NYT report that the Hong Kong airport is presently calm. (Mid-day in Hong Kong.) If you are a foreign national in the City, now would be a good time to leave. There are reports by other news agencies that the PLA are mobilizing and staging very near to HK.
4
I feel the faces of the protestors should be blurred out while reporting on this so that the Chinese government won’t secretly make them disappear when the Western media moves onto other stories. I pray for the safety of every single one of them. They certainly know the importance and the price of freedom. I hope they will prevail somehow.
14
Actually these protesters don’t even know what they are fighting for at all. Most of them are incited, and violence seems to be the only way to make their stand, which, if you could watch the video of the site, is illogical and nonsense. What these protesters have done will only jeopardize our beloved Hong Kong.
8
I have spent the last 9 days here and I believe the situation is bit more complex than some might say...I totally believe in the protest and its push to keep Hong Kongs open system in place...but I believe that the protestors are no longer totally innocent at this juncture as they have have increased violent behavior in the last week significantly...the police are roundly demonized and in some cases rightly so but their position is quite difficult..they live in HK and many truly do not support the police actions (and do support a free HK) but it is their job and they have Beijing pushing them hard to take action or turn over operations to the PLA...it is a difficult position to be in...
It would be a very good time for all parties to step back and take a breathe right now...open dialogue is key or the result could be ugly...the protestors are banging an egg against a rock...and eventually the egg will break...
11
After being punched and kicked, the suspected policeman fainted? What a strange choice of words for someone who becomes unconscious during a violent attack.
8
Now is the critical moment both protesters and Hong Kong government start listening to each other and compromising each other because up until now there is no casualty on both sides. Otherwise this violent confrontation will reach the point of no return and will become the another Tiananmen incident.
3
If as reported, China’s People’s Army is making its way to Hong Kong, lands there and persecutes Hong Kong citizens, the Renminbi will, if not collapse, definitely suffer. Under normal circumstances, the US and Western Europe and Japan, South Korea, Australia and other nations could conceivably boycott China’s imports as punishment for human rights violations. Under Trump, who knows?. Given Trumps’s persecution of Central American refugees, it doesn’t have a moral leg to stand on.
China’s quest to turn the Renminbi as a global currency won’t ever work. Who wants to hold their money in a currency who’s country in unstable? No one. This is good news for the US since China won’t be able to threaten to cash in its Treasury Bonds in a stable currency.
7
Prez Trump wished everyone good luck on this today...including the Communist Chinese ?and their Communist People’s Liberation Army? poised to invade on the Hong Kong border. President T just doesn’t understand foreign policy. Why does Trump love authoritarian government sooo much??
5
US interfered in Chinese politics and incited riots in Hongkong.
10
The overwhelming preponderance of reportage on the airport sit-in has been about the inconvenience.
These brave people are fighting for rights that we and they(used to) take for granted.
11
The PRC made "feel good" promises to Hong Kong in 1997. Of course, they had no intention keeping those promises. The people of Hong King are finally waking up to that fact.
13
If Chinese government don’t want to keep the promise, the central government would already interrupted into this riot. As things stand, Hong Kong government clearly cannot handle this situation.
2
The tone of this article is disingenuous and appears to portrays the protesters in a bad light.
For example, it reports that "A group of protesters inside surrounded a police officer, taking his baton and beating him with it."
Why doesn't it also mention the reason why they went after the officer was because he pepper-sprayed a woman, pushed her to the ground and started beating her with his baton?
14
@Smoog
Fortunately we are living in an era of google, so a simple search easily verifies your statement. See the video of the incident below, from Sun of UK.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/9715208/battered-hong-kong-policeman-pulls-gun/
I can easily see the policeman hold the girl to the ground, I assume to detain her, but "beating with baton" is nowhere to be found.
You also forgot to mention that the airport authority got an injunction from the court to clear the airport, and the police is there to conduct the clearing by order of court. If you don't abide by an order from the court, you are acting illegally, regardless of your gender.
Trying pulling that same trick of ganging up on a policeman in the US, and see what happens. You would better start praying soon.
7
The People's Republic's leaders couldn't ask for a better scenario. They will soon have all the reason they need to send in the troops and call martial law in HK. The Western world will howl but in the end the PRC will gain full control of HK well ahead of schedule. This looks like our something like our year 1968. The protesters got loud enough that Richard Nixon was elected to establish la and order. Protesters like this too often way overestimate their power. Then they get crushed.
9
The police disappeared as protesters rushed the Legislative offices on July 1; that should send a message that all is not well in HK activates: Agent Provocateurs abound?
Wouldn't be the first time when a 'need to discredit' plays out.
2
I am a supporter of the protest movement. I believe that Taiwan murder was just a convenient excuse for the extradition proposal.
However, what we have here now is a "Black Guard" movement. We have allowed a small group of extremists to hijack this movement to areas never intended, including trial and execution of "justice" as evidenced in their accosting of two mainland Chinese at the airport yesterday. A policeman was cornered and severely beaten up. All by himself, he drew his weapon. Can you imagine, Americans, that he did not fire his gun? Excess force used by the police?
17
Any protest driven by rational, non-violent and legal reasons should be sanctioned. But what's happening in HK right now is completely not the way it was intended to be. I stand by reasonable Hong Kong citizens like you. At the same time all actions led by gangs and mobs should not be tolerated.
7
@Peter K Who knows who did the beating. The PRC fights by proxy usually.
3
Protesters, stay strong. You have the majority of Americans respect. You got this.
8
Hong Kong is one of the most unequal places in terms of wealth and income on the face of this earth despite the fact that it has been a trading, financial hub for the last 60 years at least. The very wealthy and rich in collusion with the political elites, which are the most inept, have been too greedy to recognize the hopelessness of the Hong Kong's masses. Hong Kong is not Beijing.
8
@Paul
Right more like NYC or SF where the working class has to gobble or move someplace else; save they do not have that option.
1
You said despite but I think you meant because.
Not every protest is a pro-democracy protest. What kind of pro-democracy protests disturb peace? What kind of pro-democracy protests beat police and normal citizens? What happen to basic law and order in a society? If this happened in the US, the rioters would be arrested, sentenced and severely punished. But in the "free" Hong Kong the rioters are released within hours, and they are seen as heroes in western media. So fake and biased. Hong Kong is still a western colony and used by western media as a little pawn against China.
12
Fact: UK ceded control of HK to China in 1997. It is no longer a western colony, period. You are entitled to your own opinions but not your own facts.
8
I totally agree with you on this. Any attacks to the citizens and peace are intolerable. And The government should be responsible for the indulgence of demonstrators to disrupt public order. When protests happened, the government at least should do something to appease the protesters, rather than let their actions deteriorate step by step, affecting the lives of others.
1
Destroy totalitarian regimes. Power to the People.
7
Does the American government have plans about how to respond (other than verbal condemnation), if China militarily "secures" Hong Kong? There is no way of knowing nor, if there are plans, should we know what they are, unless publicity is part of a coherent diplomatic strategy.
I cannot help but think back to 1968 and the Soviet Union's invasion of Czechoslovakia, which the former considered part of its political territory. The U.S. made no response, nor is it obvious what a response should or even could have been at the time. The reality is that when push comes to shove, semi-abstractions such as freedom, democracy, and sovereignty get shunted aside by "facts on the ground."
The strongest reality in Hong Kong's corner is that an invasion by China would likely irreparably damage the ability of Hong Kong to serve as the huge financial center from which China gains so much. However, rational material effects might not prevail over the Chinese Communist Party's interest in preserving Party-defined stability at all costs, as well as wanting to suppress any inspiration Tibetans, Uighurs, and other non-Han peoples might get from Hong Kong successfully saying "No!" to Beijing.
The dynamic was similar in 1968, as the Soviet Union was afraid that the Prague Spring, actually lead by the Czechoslovak Communist Party leadership (Dubček, Smrkovsky, Svoboda, et al), would serve as inspiration to various effectively colonized Soviet "republics", as well as East European vassal states.
8
This week we note the 50th of Woodstock. I was headed into the fifth grade that summer. I first heard about Woodstock in seventh grade when 2 classmates sat across the aisle from me right to my left and Laura had this rainbow guitar with the little bird emblem on the guitar neck on her notebook. I asked her about it one day. It was different. What did it mean? What was it about? And she and Danny told me.
We have a President with near ZERO good will creed or leverage with China, something Hillary Clinton DID have in spades because Bill is well regarded in China and the Pacific Rim. Maybe Bill should go to China.
I don't know how Hong Kong is going to turn out. But China does not like instability and disrespect to the mainland.
China will use this as an opportunity, not a fix.
And we have Dear Leader Trump tweeting today, that's what he is doing, TWEETING!, stating "why are people blaming me?" and "everyone should be calm safe".
Lack of leverage and good will leads to unintended consequences. Bush 43 fell on his sword.
I value Woodstock though I do no drugs or drink. I am probably the most establishment guy but also not establishment- a life paradox. The strangers in photos are my people.
Let me be with you in your journey
When the wind rustles through your hair
And the waters flow from your eyes
I will always care
Let me be when I am sleeping
I hear the screaming of eagles
And your passions and torn feelings
Loves lost and blankets that keep you warm
We are the gain
1
@Heather
Not if you are black or brown. What freedom, what right? You ignore what Trump and some police are doing to these people! U.S.'s democratic ideal is under threat at the moment when Republicans stay mum, unwilling to critize/correct Trump. Even little Singapore shows more democracy where people of all religions, race and ethnicity get along, living together and working together.
Hong Kongers are struggling to ensure a safe society apart from the Chinese government's quick at the trigger kind of justice. I feel scared for them. I hope their blood will not be shed in the course of fighting for their freedom. The travellers' inconvenience is minor. Unlike the protesters, the travellers through Hong Kong have a life which is secure and predictable. There is always a tomorrow, against the backdrop of these young people, facing a life of blood, sweat and tears.
7
Within three years, at least 100,000 citizens of Hong Kong will be “disappeared,” and this number could be much higher. China will not forget these protesters, not now, and not 30 years from now. The protesters understand this. I believe they are thinking , “ if they have to die, might as well go out swinging.” This does not include the 300,000 Taiwanese, Filipinos, and Indonesians as they are toast already. Those with $ most likely have already moved funds out. The real issue will be what country will take those who can get out.
10
I was at the Berkeley protests of the late '60s. If the police had just stayed away, very little would've happened. But the Establishment just had to say, "You kids get off our lawn!" and we all know how that turned out. Kent State, same thing, worse outcome.
9
@JimBob
The first - and I'm afraid the only - honest post.
Thank you.
1
Really? DJT tweets Chinese troop movements in the midst of this?
Holy moley.
9
And, he’s citing ‘intelligence.’
Sources and methods? Loose lips sink ships?
4
Americans did occupy an airport -- JFK, when Trump imposed his first Muslim ban. If lawyers and protesters hadn't flooded into and outside of Terminal 4, a judge would never have issued an injunction blocking the ban. Sure, Trump eventually got a watered down version of it (which can & will be reversed once we return to a normal democracy), but imagine if we'd all sat at home while CBP grabbed arriving passengers off their flights and interrogated them in a small room simply because they arrived from a majority Muslim country. That's not democracy, it's fascism. The free world should respect and support the HK protesters trying to save their democracy. I'm sure NYT readers are familiar with the consequences if we don't: "Then they came for me
And there was no one left
To speak out for me"
9
@SAS That's not the same situation by comparison. The demonstration against Muslin ban in the JFK airport makes sense because that was a travel ban and people likely get deported at the airport if the ban was enforced. The protesters in JFK were truly peaceful and by no means tying random people up for hours just because they either don't agree with them or they were suspected as plain cloth police from main land China (without evidence). If the protesters ended up shutting down the entire JFK airport, I am sure NYPD will remove them immediately. We have seen this all the time where protesters are removed from Congress building or highways in the US. Why can't the police do the same in Hong Kong? They have shut down the entire Hong Kong airport for two days! The protesters in Hong Kong will lose support quickly if the disruption continues and really impacts people's work and livelihood there, since most of their basic needs such as food, water, electricity, clothing etc are from main land China. Hong Kong can not prosper without support from main land China, however, an economically devastated Hong Kong does not do much damage to main land China.
4
Might I suggest Ms. Lam give her press conferences dressed as a puppet? It would help keep the cast of characters straight. Clearly, Hong Kong needs a leader elected in a free vote of all its adult residents.
What is the world willing to do to help Hong Kong with its press for democracy, whether the world's biggest police state likes it or not?
12
@Mike McGuire: Umm... you mean like President (lost the popular vote) Trump, or Boris Johnson (elected by a few thousands of unrepresentative old white males). Our system is not perfect, but then none is. It does have representation, which is more than can be said for some of the gerrymandered states in the US.
HK is NOT A POLICE STATE. Our police force is based on the British model, which explains why none of these violent protesters are dead. Why do you guys persist in misrepresenting HK and in wishing evil on us?
2
Why aren't people talking about the origin of the extradition law? The guy killer his girlfriend in Taiwan and went back to Hong Kong pretending nothing happened? Hong Kong can't do anything to him as it happened in Taiwan. Why all the reports about pre-democracy. We don't hear anything about the poor girl and her parents. As a mom I ached for the parents that lost their child and see the killer walk free from the murder.
192
@Amy, but isn't the reason there is no extradition between Hong Kong and Taiwan because Beijing refuses to recognize the legitimacy of the Taiwanese government? So isn't your complaint really with Beijing, not Hong Kong?
84
@Amy Read the NYT article from June 15th. "The Murder Case That Lit the Fuse in Hong Kong"
"As popular outrage spread, Mrs. Lam and her allies stuck to the script, arguing that Hong Kong needed the bill to bring Mr. Chan to justice — even after the authorities in Taiwan made clear that was not true. Taiwanese officials said as early as May that they would not seek Mr. Chan’s extradition under the proposed legislation."
64
@Amy
How do you know what happened in Taiwan.;
And since he is a Hong Kong citizen, it is for the Hong Kong authorities to send him back to Taiwan where the evidence and possible witnesses are located.
Alternatively he could be tried in Hong Kong
. Why send him to China were neither he nor the matter have any links.
Why not send him to the US to be tried here?
22
How many innocents already have had their lives disrupted because of these rioters? I know one person whose medical treatment has been delayed because they couldn’t get a flight out.
People who disrupt the safety and operation of an airport need to be thrown into jail. Period.
31
@Tim Oh, right. And I guess our own Founders should have given up their resistance to British tyranny because some people might be inconvenienced, or even hurt. What was that quote about the price of liberty?
134
@Tim
A comment such as this echos the white Southern view of civil rights protests in the 60's. Sorry but sometimes people's only choice is to rise up against an oppressive regime whose only goal is to retain the existing system with its entrenched favoritism to the anointed class, be that certain groups (whites in the South) or the pooh-bahs running the government themselves (the Chinese Communist Party), which in this case is mostly the latter. Without protest the injustice will never be corrected, and will get worse.
90
Please remember that China is run by an unelected authoritarian party that denies people the basic freedoms of speech and expression. They disappear their citizens on the mainland and even run concentration camps. They don’t respect human rights even the right to freedom of religion.
I’m sorry your friend was inconvenienced, but another look into the American history books may teach you something about freedom not being free.
128
I love the Australian guy trying to tell Hong Kongers what to think and how to behave in their own country. As they correctly point out, he's just interested in his own convenience.
5
@Edward
He had better wise up and look at the future, given Australia's relationship with Beijing. He could ask Australian sailors what it's like to be "inconvenienced" by PRC navy in international waters. Maybe he should thank HK protesters.
4
This information can not be shared through WeChat!
3
Heartbreaking to see one of the world’s great cities flailing like this
1
Unfortunately, this demonstration has nothing to do with democracy , although demonstrators held signs in name of democracy. The extradition law Hong Kong government tried to pass was meant to clean up Hong Kong as notorious hide out for “criminals” ! ( remember Snowden? ) Hong Kong has few extradition accords with few other countries already, but wished to add more. China simply was one of them! The accord with China specifically excluded political dissidents along with other minor crimes. Majority residents in HK are sick and tire of the thugs of “demonstrators “, they do not have any meaningful goal but violence, the western media showed only the peaceful sit in protest, didn’t report the violent side on the streets , cruelty they did to policemen! They distressed entire Hong Kongers!
4
Question: what do the pamphlets that the protestors hand out say?
The guy who was put out about his flight was a little myopic, no?
2
No he was not
How about the human rights of these two people beaten by the protesters, one of them paraded with his hands tired behind his back, the other beaten simply b/c they found a "I Love HK Police" sign in his bag? How about the protesters blocking the ambulance from leaving?
Anyone cares to share your thoughts?
5
I’ve lived in Hong Kong for 21 years. My children have grown up here and it’s my home. I support the protesters and will march with them. Carrie Lam had an easy out - she could have withdrawn the extradition bill. Silly lady is pig headed and inflexible. Blood is in her hands. Shame on her - she loves Beijing more than Hong Kong
11
If you are a Hong Kong demonstrator, get off the streets right now! Large convoys of Chinese army trucks are moving into Shenzhen as you read this. The video is on Trump’s twitter feed. It looks like Xi is going to do another Tiananmen Square massacre.
4
@John Murray
No, Xi is too nervous these days (one of the few things I give DJT credit for achieving).
1
Hong Kong International Airport, which opened in 1998, a year after China reclaimed the territory from Britain, serves as a gateway to the rest of Asia. Sleek and well-run, the airport accommodates nearly 75 million passengers a year and handles more than 5.1 million metric tons of cargo.
To many people keeping the trains running on time is what makes their life work. For all that can be said for unbridled freedom, that is not one of them.
The young tourist girl in the video sounds and emotes inconvenienced because she can’t wait to get back to her assuredly Western Democratic Country.
It strikes me as being wrong!
Instead, she should emote compassion and solidarity with the protesters who are at the front lines of Democratic peoples repudiating Chinese Totalitarianism.
Stay strong and resolute citizens of Hong Kong! Our thoughts and prayers are with you!
1
You have to believe that actual hk police, part of the community, are seriously torn about their orders vs. care of their fellow citizens. I know some are towing the line wholeheartedly, but I doubt it's the majority.
@Character Counts you mean those "police" who dont speak cantonese?
1
Hong Kong is part of China, like it or not!
English Opium Cartels first colonized Hong Kong in 1842.
England signed a 99 year lease in 1898. It ended in 1997.
An agreement called Basic Law was signed and allowed Hong Kong partial autonomy regarding its Capitalist and Judicial system and personal freedoms like freedom of speech, freedom of the press, and right to assemble.
The Basic Law agreement lasts until 2047 when Hong Kong will be absorbed 100% into China. Meanwhile, China is basically a landlord providing defense, security, and has final say on foreign relations.
The students want universal suffrage. Never going to happen!
Hong Kong is not a Democracy, never was, and never will be. Hong Kong is First a part of China, and second, a Special Administrative Region within China.
If the protests become a security risk to HK and China, Beijing will intervene. It will end one way or another with the protestors losing!
4
Freedom comes at a cost. People of China need to immobilize for Democracy to take shape. Chinese workers deserve better wages and pay in addition to voting rights.
@Peter Z The Basic Law stipulated “gradual and orderly progress” in the selection of the Hong Kong chief executive up to 2007 and the election of the Legislative Council up to 2008, with the ultimate aim of universal suffrage. This gave Hong Kong people the expectation that the universal franchise would begin a decade after the territory reverted to China.
This never happened, hence the frustration and desperation.
1
This is the time for the international community to boycott China. Stop doing business with China. Because, for China, everything is about business and making money. Human Rights is secondary or something not known in China.
To stop dealing with China, is the only language they will understand.
9
For those that cheer the protesters, here's the challenge question: How long do you think the authorities here would tolerate the same protests? Keep in mind, of course, we don't live in a police state...
2
Some of the exchanges in the video are really great. The Aussie is a perfect example of a self absorbed, belligerent, entitled businessman. The young Hong Konger is erudite and earnest. But I'm sure that there were some (many?) people whose flights were delayed that supported the protesters. And what do the stranded mainland Chinese people think? NYT, why not show any of that? It only reinforces a narrative that people must not be inconvenienced while the HK people fight to keep their freedoms.
5
In a world with 7,700,000,000 people life is cheap.
China could wipe out the population of Hong Kong and repopulate the city in a week.
In 34 days there will be 7,000,000 more people on the planet. A Hong Kong a month.
3
People said they are fighting for freedom but they don't know what freedom is lost when I asked them. Funny? Hong Kong have more freedom then we were under the British control, the protestors are simply brain washed by media and afraid of and do not believe the China government simply because China is a communist country. These protestors are not peaceful, they attacked civilians, they blocked roads, mtr and tunnels,forced others to protest with them.
10
I am optimistic, regarding the future of HK. History goes round onto the future, and once the more people realized where they are, they never retreat, no matter how much sacrifice needed, simply they can not. The more sacrifice, the more peolple realized, it goes on and on, never turnback.
3
Police was sent to rescue a civilian who was held by the thugs. The civilian was tighten up and abused for hours. The airport authority called the police for help and police was sent there and crashed with the so called protestors.
The thugs are crazy and misbehaving, later another reporter from China was also tighten and beaten up and held by the thugs because they believe him is an under cover. The thugs are extremely crazy and need to be condemned. Their so called protests were not peaceful and affected others. If you are not agree with them they will target you, Hong Kong people are afraid of them but could not argue with them in public because they are not peaceful and will attack whoever object them.
5
This report is so biased. Why don't you show the pictures of protesters beating innocent travelers? Why don't you tell the stories of how these protests have seriously affected HK people's daily life? The chaos in HK is a trap set to allure the Chinese government step in HK affair. So that the western world can better "criticize" how human rights have been abused by the Chinese government. The reason why there is so much misunderstanding about China is that media like NY times only choose to report one side of the story, bad news of China. Shame on you.
23
Evil only exists because good men and woman do nothing. What would've happened if the world had turned a blind eye to all the Jews being killed by the Nazis? These type of Far Right Nationalistic governments around the world would only have expanded and our democracies would be replaced by communism and dictatorships.
These protestors are Hong Kongs conscience and it's more than about what the share market is doing and more about human and civil rights. It's called social justice.
All the financiers in Hong Kong need to start manipulating the Chinese markets so they loose big time as all the Chinese government cares about is profits before people.
4
@CK, the Holocaust? FYI, the world did turn a blind eye.
Beijing will step in and Hong Kong will be extinguished. Any rights, any openess, anything that makes HK what it is now will be ended. The rest of the world will shake their head and offer limp platitudes but will carry on as normal accepting Beijing's money. Beijing knows it can get away with it - it has a million Muslims in concentration camps and no one, not even Muslim nations, utter a peep.
8
Lived through mass protests before up close; stood on the police car in Sproul Plaza and address Free Speech protesters with approval, appointed president of A.F.T. local formed to protect graduate student employment in following year at Berkeley and more; but there comes a time when the glowing issues are submerged into protest and increasing violence for its own sake and that is a loss leading to suppression and reaction due to the actions of individuals living out their own notions of ‘importance.’
Not unique but common occurrences; Hong Kong seems to be rushing in that direction and all will live to regret. Lam must save her city if possible, on one else can.
2
It doesn't take much to see the parallels between the American Revolution and Hong Kong's valiant struggle to assert self governance, I read somewhere that in targeting the airport, protesters are sending an economic message akin to the Boston Tea Party.
But it's not just in solidarity that the US should stand with Hong Kong in their struggle for autonomy from Beijing, it's good economic policy.
So why is the US pursuing policies and making speeches that mirror the same imperial, dictatorial path that devastated the economy of Great Britain?
5
A close relative works (here) for a big London/HK bank. He visits HK regularly and personally knows many colleagues there, and with whom he's now in continuous touch - i.e. within the last few hours.
Those guys in HK are currently absolutely petrified - and convinced that China is a hair's width away from moving in the troops and paramilitaries. They fear that the slightest misstep by the protesters - harming, or detaining a government official, for example - is going to bring the PLA down on them.
To add insult to injury, many of the guys hold a sort of 2nd class 'Associate' British citizenship - which they're discovering offers them little comfort and zero protection.
8
This is not 天 安 门. And therefore most attempts to draw conclusions or speculations about the current situation from the former are likely to miss important differences. China (Beijing) has much more to lose now than before. Their interconnectedness brings feedback loops that have to be considered before acting. There is much more going on in Hong Kong than in 1989 Beijing. These “facts on the ground” include huge wealth disparities, unaffordable housing, and the knowledge and experience of liberty, not just the aspiration for it. Hong Kong is also not the seat of government - which makes a difference, when it can be positioned as a rogue province. The public opinion of 7M people - especially in the age of instant global communications - cannot be lightly regarded.
6
I admire their passion and sense of social justice.
Targeting the airport is not a wise move though as China will be forced to act, as would any other country.
Interesting ‘distraction’ given the USA vs China trade wars going on
I hope these young people ’are not being manipulated for someone else’s gain
5
After the Communists crush the HK protesters, I hope that we throw 100% tariffs on everything from China until the Communist Party is gone, no matter how long it takes, and that we do everything in our power to persuade our friends and allies to do the same.
We must be ready to boost our military power in Asia as well.
At the same time, we should be happy to take tourists and students from China as long as each must endure a "stern lecture" (Communist Party style) about what Democracy means and what's happened in China since 1945.
On their way out, they should each receive a free copy of one of those horrific biographies of Mao Tse Tung.
But of course, we shall do none of this.
9
Yes Yes Yes...That’s exactly what America should do...This May be the last best chance of breaking the Communist Party...
To JL , Shanghai, who writes
"Since 1997, life in HK has gone down hill. Rampant immigration from the mainland, loss of freedom, outrageous cost of living, "
Thank you for shedding light on what drives the protests.
It is not just loss of freedom
Of the three factors, two are bread and butter issues.
Rampant immigration from the mainland (Average pay for college graduate $828.74) to HK (average pay $ 1 871) has pushed down salaries
As the South China Morning Post reported in 2018
"Median monthly starting salary of university graduate was HK$14,395 last year, compared with HK$20,231 in 1987"
Add to this that rents have risen as more mainland immigrants push into HK. Rents have risen to absurd level
Many protesters are on the street to protest lower salaries and higher costs of living .
They see no future
8
What you are seeing is how “might makes right” is rule of law and how the world REALLY works. Democracy, in practice, may be extinct in 50 years. The HK protests are a dying gasp for air.
China’s Government has unilateral and absolute power. They have the acquiescence of their population and have built up a powerful economy and military. China will be around a long time.
Almost half of the USA emulates Russian & Chinese absolute authority more and more each day. State controlled right wing media. Deference to “powerful leaders” absolute patriotism and a culture of purity and fear.
The EU is also giving up on the essence of Democracy. New Zealand is too small.
The global victims will be the poor Africans who will again be ruthlessly exploited by amoral superpowers looking for dwindling resources.
1
The Chinese government is not going to back down to meet, even slightly, the demands of protesters. This is going to end ugly, and in the end, nobody is going to win. Its a lose - lose situation for everyone involved.
I am just glad I am not a transient person trying to get a flight out of Hong Kong. What a nightmare that would be.
9
Remember Tiananmen Square. There is a line that if crossed Beijing and the PLA will step in and crush them and all of Hong Kong.
5
In reply to Bruce Northwood Salem Oregon
It’s about to happen. Check Trump’s twitter feed. Large numbers of Chinese army trucks are moving into Shenzhen.
There has never been anything like this anywhere before. Calling these millions of people terrorists, as the Chinese govt. does, is absurd -- and they know it. The demonstrators are fighting for their future. Those of us who live in countries like the US -- drowning in commercial materialism, distracted and overworked, unaware of the kind of life we might be leading in a humane system -- we should be proud of these people, sooner or later risking their future in the face of a monstrous Chinese dictatorship whose citizens have no freedom to live and vote as they wish. The fact that we here in the US live in a trance where we're free to vote for variations on the theme of a corrupt, unfeeling system is nothing to celebrate.
6
People all over the world only pay attention to this so-called "fight for democracy", instead of the origin problem of the extradition bill and the instability that is prevailing in Hong Kong. Look at what these protesters have done: beat up travellers, cause one of the largest airport to stop, force almost half of the Hong Kong public transportation to terminate. Now this may seem to you as a "civil rights movement", but how far is it from domestic terrorism? Is fighting for democracy equal to violence? What will you think, if you become a victim of such a fight?
9
Given that there's no terrorizing, I'd say it's as far from domestic terrorism as democratic protest can get.
3
Admiration from me. I see echos of how Chinese students stood in front of tanks in Tiananmen Square. Or how the “Orange Vests” rioted in France. America should take a page from these protestors.
And to those whose flights are interrupted and are mad; seriously? Sometimes there are bigger issues that we all should respect.
4
@denise Take a page for what purpose?
@Jackson. Oh I don’t know, pick a cause how about marching this weekend in one of the many anti-assault weapon marches? We are too complacent in this country, accepting government by “Tweet”.
This gives me renewed hope for freedom and democracy. If these young people can confront the greatest threat to freedom and democracy in the world, The Chinese Communist Party, why can't Americans?
6
For a decent number of these protesters, this is a dress rehearsal for the closing days of June 2047, as the “50-year guarantee” of “one country, two systems” may fade away once the calendar flips to July 1, 2047. That deadline is only a bit less than 28 years away. I am sure that the “resolution” of this current crisis will impact the planning for 2047. Scary days, indeed.
1
The far left at its finest!
3
Spare me the bleeding heart democracy spiel!
I lived in HK for over 3 years & used the HK airport weekly to cover my job as Asia-Pacific Manager for an International Company. [FYI: I'd easily be classified as Liberal Democrat based on my long voting history.]
Protests ... no problem! Handing out pamphlets ... sure! Disruption marches & sit ins ... got it! Grabbing at passengers trying to navigate thru the airport is anarchy that will result in violence. I bristle at the notion of someone placing their hands on me to prevent my movement.
While living there I also felt the simmering tensions form Hong Kongers towards various mainland issues. [E.G.: immigration] Living in HK was one of there most wonderful experiences of my life because of the 'people'. This is not Civil Disobedience!
6
So all the protests are illegitimate because a couple of people act badly? The fight for justice is rarely pure, clean and trouble-free.
@Edward all the protests are illegitimate because a couple of people act badly and the rest condone the bad acts. If you condone the bad act, you are the accomplice and are part of the bad acts.
1
I am a subscriber of the NYT since 2012. My friends in China called me a brainwashed liberal.
As for what happening in Hong Kong right now, I am just curious how HK protesters to justify the vicious and discriminative actions towards people from mainland China during their demonstrations?
Regardless the “fake news” on social media, how is it possible for people from mainland China to support a movement keep asking them to “go back where you came from”.
Unless you make a comparison that “HK - mainland China” is like “US colonies - UK”, then probably violence and hatred towards people from mainland China could be explained.
But if that is the case, would it matter what people from mainland China read on state-owned news sites?
Did American press give a fair reporting what Iraqis were asking for during the Iraq War? Did UK press give a fair reporting what American were asking for during the American Revolutionary War?
6
My sense—as another “brainwashed” liberal—is that the people of Hong Kong (at least the thousands protesting) see the door closing on their way of life...their freedoms, both social and economic, and they will go to any length to protect them. Their tactics may be messy, but they are born of desperation.
4
It's just beyond distressing how the totalitarian regimes all over the globe using hostile power to grab the reigns. It's proves to me that democracy cannot be asleep at the job, because democracy is 24/7 work of the collective citizenry, and if we not on guard we will lose all the gains that were made by past generations by spilling their blood on a altar of democracy.
A reporter asked Ken Cuccinelli if the sentiments expressed on the statue’s plaque are “still operative in the United States.”
Here is his beyond the pale response...
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/ken-cuccinelli-statue-of-liberty_n_5d51a525e4b05fa9df02e365
Let's flood the streets people, it cannot go on, our liberties disappearing before our eyes.
A headline for WAPO on Sep 4, 2018:
We know how to fight for democracy. We've done it before.
Instead we're drowning in widespread apathy and indifference.
Where is the american spirit, are tax cuts for the rich shut it down, and poor people got their measly crumbs.
Remember our kids are watching when the history repeats itself!
We have to fight or lose it forever.
2
A reveal of the CCCP's true nature is right around the corner.
5
My family has deep ties to Hong Kong from the 18-year period that my husband was a foreign journalist there. Just now on Twitter, I found out my daughter had just landed and cleared out of HK airport before check-ins were halted and all flights cancelled (Aug. 12). I am relieved, and yet alarmed that a city which served as a haven for many is now in a state of upheaval.
5
If there were significant numbers still protesting, it would be in the streets. It appears a few thousand who like the chaos and cameras picked the venue to maximize the pain. Mainland China and the HK police have shown restraint.
The protesters complain about the police, but all I've heard is that one woman got poked in the eye.
13
The version I heard is that girl was attacked by her other protestors accidentally.
1
The disruption of flights in and out of Hong Kong is very selfish and childish. I do not support these actions. Beijing must restore order. Thank you.
9
@JMH
Rosa Parks only takes a seat in the bus, not lying in front of the bus, "if you didn't agree with me, none should move".
Seen this movie before in Homs, Syria and remember listening to the Ambassador Robert Ford's version of the Democracy march/protest in Syria. The same is happening in Hong Kong now - the result will be same again. Many hundreds of thousands would die unnecessarily just to trying to hurt China.
As much as we want and support Democracy, we need to put some value on Human life too.
Peace!!!
8
Hong Kong and the US are angry at China for being so successful. Go home and get to work and show us how capitalism is so much better than communism.
7
@Eric China is not successful. Their economy is tanking.
4
@Jackson tanking ... at a growth rate twice of the US.
Like the Occupy Movement, the Gilet Juanes and countless other 'leaderless' movement the actions in Hong Kong, while understandable and admirable, will lead to nothing. Beijing will eventually prevail, a couple of heads will get busted, a couple of thousand lives will be disrupted and China's march into its glorious future will go on...Britain should never have given up Hong Kong if it wanted to preserve democracy..but Britain as we have seen is a major power in deep decline....China has been trying to be accommodating but when the protests start the ' lose of face' spectacle....watch out. Which country has the moral authority to demand justice? Used to be us...but now? Ha ha.
4
Hong kong must not fall. Round up the usual sanctions!
There seems to be no mention of this event in the Hong Kong newspaper, Chinese Daily.
Here's some news that doesn't contain communist propaganda.
https://www.independent.co.uk/topic/HongKong
3
The HK rioters are criminals. Since the US seems to support them so much - why don't they take them over as immigrants? Perfect solution - win win on both sides.
4
@workerbee
If only we could.
2
There are right ways to protest, and there are wrong ways to protest. It is important to pick the right ways if you actually wish to prevail in the long run. If you just want chaos at any cost.. then by all means keep doing it the wrong way.
Protesting by shutting down an international airport, for multiple days... is the WRONG way to protest. It will not achieve any positive outcome.. but it will achieve multiple negative outcomes. It plays directly into the hands of the Lam government when they crack down on the disruptions.
All this will achieve is to poison support for the protests and their reasons. It will turn other nations against the protesters at worst, or just create broad ambivalence in the best case.
2
@Chuck It's actually really smart in a way. Yes, travellers will be inconvenienced but this is also a people fighting for their future. I would hope some people would be mature and unselfish enough to understand that. (Having grown up in a Communist country, I understand thoroughly what they're up against.) Putting it in an airport means international media outlets and travellers serve as witnesses to what happen. Otherwise, news is prone to stop reporting on this story.
12
Does the American government have plans about how to respond (other than verbal condemnation), if China militarily "secures" Hong Kong? There is no way of knowing nor, if there are plans, should we know what they are, unless publicity is part of a coherent diplomatic strategy.
I cannot help but think back to 1968 and the Soviet Union's invasion of Czechoslovakia, which the former considered part of its political territory. The U.S. made no response, nor is it obvious what a response should or even could have been at the time. The reality is that when push comes to shove, semi-abstractions such as freedom, democracy, and sovereignty get shunted aside by "facts on the ground."
The strongest reality in Hong Kong's corner is that an invasion by China would likely irreparably damage the ability of Hong Kong to serve as the huge financial center from which China gains so much. However, rational material effects might not prevail over the Chinese Communist Party's interest in preserving Party-defined stability at all costs, as well as wanting to suppress any inspiration Tibetans, Uighurs, and other non-Han peoples might get from Hong Kong successfully saying "No!" to Beijing.
The dynamic was similar in 1968, as the Soviet Union was afraid that the Prague Spring, actually lead by the Czechoslovak Communist Party leadership (Dubček, Smrkovsky, Svoboda, et al), would serve as inspiration to various effectively colonized Soviet "republics", as well as East European vassal states.
5
@Steve Fankuchen, let’s not forget Russia’s annexation of Crimea in 2014 which garnered only as stern a non-binding resolution of rebuke as the U.N. is capable of, after which In July 2015, Russian prime minister Dmitry Medvedev said that Crimea had been fully integrated into Russia. Not especially of reassurance to Hong Kong protestors that the rest of the world has much control beyond sending their sympathies.
3
This will not end well. This is the real China they're dealing with, not the one that exists in the minds of Americans who view it through a partisan lens. They see only an adversary of Trump, personally. A very narrow view.
4
I am hoping the younger protesters will make a deal, even if it means nothing and get some positive media going so they will live to fight another day. Of course, these people will be targeted after this is over but they could attempt to make some kind of deal.
Bejing is already on the way.
Halting traffic at the airport was a step too far and the protesters got ahead of themselves doing it.
Feeling the wrath of Bejing will be a harsh lesson. I feel for them. I admire their passion but their strategy is flawed.
I don't know if they understand that Communist China will dispose of them and few will object as they have already been the subject of negative media ads on the mainland. Most chinese people think of them as terrorists so little will come of their demise.
The street protests were one thing. Taking over the airport another thing altogether. Not a wise move.
3
I see a lot of people expressing regret that we can't muster something similar to protest the trampling of our Democracy by the Trump regime. But what are we supposed to do -- shut down Washington Reagan, JFK, La Guardia, Los Angeles International, DFW International, and other hubs while simultaneously cutting off Mar A Lago, and all the other gilded Trump properties where he sneaks off to to avoid criticism and conduct his Twitter troll campaigns? It's a lot harder. When more than a million people take to the streets in the USA, which has actually happened, Trump doesn't even see it, much less care about it. There's gotta be a better way.
1
I remember taking a cab from Singapore Airport to a Downtown hotel. Throughout my drive the ethnic Chinese cab driver cursed everything under the sun about their government without a care in the world. And as I was getting out of the cab he said with a smile that he would not say any of it outside the cab in public places, and in Beijing you cannot even say that in a cab. I guess I understand what HKers are fighting for...
11
We see what happens when they protest in Iran. In Syria. Venezuela. And maybe now Hong Kong. The authorities buoyed by thugs and military overwhelm the civilian protestors. The West and US cheerlead from the sidelines and draw fake redlines, in essence allying with the authoritarian governments. I think the Hong Kong protestors know they’re on their own, so while they lose control and a grip on their own values, you have to appreciate what they’re fighting for.
5
Wouldn't it be nice if Hong Kong were still ruled by Great Britain?
10
@Dante
Indeed, many of the protesters here wave British flags and longed for the good old days.
No universal suffrage, high levels offices whites only. Armored troops on streets during riots, real bullets rather than rubber ones. Nightly curfew, and any gathering of three or above was regarded illegal.
How nice, the good old days under Britain. We need the authority, the whip and the firm British hands.
LOL.
5
@Dante No
1
"President Trump on Tuesday weighed in via tweet, saying “our intelligence has informed us that the Chinese Government is moving troops to the border with Hong Kong.”"
That's it? That's all Trump has to say?
This is what happens when the president of the United States has no leadership skills and is totally incompetent. People are going to get hurt or killed.
5
@L Please give one hint as to what you think he should say. Are you seeking a war without China?
@L The United States has absolutely NO responsibility for this situation. We've been involved on the Western Pacific Rim too many times. Stay out of it!!!
Like in Syria.
Hong Kong needs a name change to, 'The Democratic Republic of Hong Kong'. Sounds good!
5
Whether China can sustain an open competitive market economy alongside a closed, noncompetitive political system remains open to question. It received an economic boost from the 1997 handover of Hong Kong with its capitalist economy. But the 2007 worldwide recession hit the Chinese economy very hard and it has yet to recover.
Contrary to conventional wisdom about Hong Konger quiescence, they have long struggled for political democracy, civil liberties, and human rights. After all, the British did not grant them basic rights until 1992, a largely cynical and meaningless decision. The point is that political unrest in Hong Kong would have continued with or without the handover.
4
@berman I’ve lived in China continuously from 2005. I haven’t noticed that the Chinese economy failed to recover from the Great Recession. In fact it’s the one country that has been truly booming for the last 10 years. The EU and USA on the other hand.....
3
Mistaken , it began when mainly when ( i hate to admit it when the then president clinton when to china carrying the gift of 4 silicon graphics supercomputers to china). It was the beginning of the down fall of the US industry. It was very cheap intelligent workers. From floor factory to engineering and design , all in the vested interest of capitalism. This was not only to china. This was every country the cheaper the better. The best example was call centers and back office jobs. This was the second industry’s to be moved overseas. Mainly all Asia countries benefited from this massive explosions of jobs being imported to their own. All in the vested interest of controlling labor cost. At the same time in the mid nineties the internet played the second major part in the down fall of what used to be good paying jobs.
Macau (visa free for many nationalities), Shenzhen, and Guangzhou, all with major international airports, are directly accessible from the Hong Kong International Airport by boat, train, or bus. Practically speaking the inconvenience is not that significant.
9
Easier said than done. Even if you don't need a visa, you still need to haul all of your luggage, together with your family, over a long distance, in a strange country, possibly strange languages. Counting last minute tickets and possible accommodation, that is easily hundreds of dollars more out of pockets, if not thousands. But the point is, why me?
Protest all you can protest, but don't hijack third parties as your hostage. Without respect for others' rights, what kind of "revolution" it is?
4
@Hank. You could also say: “I am all for freedom and democracy, as long as it does not inconvenience me in the slightest” smh
3
Not one word in the essay about the nature of the protests, what they want, what the government wants. True neoliberal context-free "coverage" by the Times. Protests just happen. The coverage must be all about the counter-response, the tactics used on both sides, and the issue of convenience/inconvenience.
13
But what do you know... Stock Market is going up,up,up...our day traders are just making money, no matter what...even everyone warns that we're heading for recession.
Welcome to America, where the mighty dollar rules everything, welcome to unbridled capitalism.
Aren't you tired of winning America!!!
2
“...the Asian financial hub known for efficiency and order“
Singapore?
7
The protesters are terrorists, it's horroble. They beat and tied up people just because they had different opnion with them??? Hard to imagine these people are educated, they have no humanity and sympathy.
5
no! they are fighting for freedom not to be extradited to china and killed
4
The protestors are doing the right thing. It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees, never surrender to any form of tyranny.
15
@RH. Easy for you to say.
Does the American government have plans about how to respond (other than verbal condemnation), if China militarily "secures" Hong Kong.? There is no way of knowing nor, if there are plans, should we know what they are, unless publicity is part of a coherent diplomatic strategy.
I cannot help but think back to 1968 and the Soviet Union's invasion of Czechoslovakia, which the former considered part of its political territory. The U.S. made no response, nor is it obvious what a response should or even could have been at the time. The reality is that when push comes to shove, semi-abstractions such as freedom, democracy, and sovereignty get shunted aside by "facts on the ground."
The strongest reality in Hong Kong's corner is that an invasion by China would likely irreparably damage the ability of Hong Kong to serve as the huge financial center from which China gains so much. However, rational material effects might not prevail over the Chinese Communist Party's interest in preserving Party-defined stability at all costs, as well as wanting to suppress any inspiration Tibetans, Uighurs, and other non-Han peoples might get from Hong Kong successfully saying "No!" to Beijing.
The dynamic was similar in 1968, as the Soviet Union was afraid that the Prague Spring, actually lead by the Czechoslovak Communist Party leadership (Dubček, Smrkovsky, Svoboda, et al), would serve as inspiration to various effectively colonized Soviet "republics", as well as East European vassal states.
3
@Steve Fankuchen
"Does the American government have plans about how to respond (other than verbal condemnation), if China militarily "secures" Hong Kong?"
Are you for real?
HK is part of China, just as NM, or RI are part of the US. How would you feel if another government (say the Russian just for the fun of it) would contemplate a 'response' because they don't like the way the US government handles things?
Seriously.
4
@waldo
Not just like NM and RI. HK is a part of China under a "one country, two systems" set-up wherein China promised to respect certain rights.
2
I don't think Hu Xijin is incorrect when he says that protesters "have lost their sense of reason,” and that “hatred has muddled their minds.” But the question is, why? I have taught in Hong Kong for nearly 20 years. These are not the people, not the students that I know. The government's refusal to discuss/negotiate with them, and to dismiss them with statements like "they have no stake in the society" is infuriating. I'm infuriated by the Hong Kong government. If I were 20 years old and had no hope of democratic future, I would have lost my sense of reason long ago.
16
You can infuriate all you can, but you still need to stay without the framework of law and order. If you go beyond that, expect consequences.
In Tiananmen square's case, students went hunger strike for weeks, literally dying for the cause. In HongKong's current case, what they do? They hijack tourists as hostages. It is like throwing a tantrum and lying on the ground, asking no punishment from government for their folly, "otherwise I will not stand up". No wonder these guys are called weak.
@Brian Thompson
'Democratic future'. Here we go again. Too bad that word has become a one-size-fits all weasel word.
1
@Brian Thompson Right, if I lose hope of democratic future, everyone has to go down with me!
1
Kudos to NYT for putting up hour long videos as well as cuts. Being able to see the full video and evaluate it for honesty and accuracy is a mark of honest media.
9
I understand the concerns of the people of Hong Kong and support their call for continued freedom. That said, the violence and the grinding to a halt of infrastructure is only going to work against them. They are giving Beijing a perfect excuse to move in and institute real draconian measures. It's not fair to the majority of citizens who aren't bringing the hammer down on their society.
5
@Topher S
'freedom' doesn't include destroying property, shutting down infrastructure and attacking the police.
Anywhere. Not in China and not in the US either.
Start there.
3
Force used to restore peace will be seen as justified. Force used to punish anyone in the vicinity will be seen as tyrannical. Unfortunately, the police have pulled a few stunts to terrify, to strike at innocent people, to instill a fear to cause people to cower. That has already undermined their authority. Only agents of a totalitarian state think that that is a good tactic.
3
Not that I fly trans-asiatic routes often but would cross Cathay Pacific off my list per their clear support of regime.
1
Carrie Lam: Call for a general election NOW. Democracy NOW!
4
"President Trump on Tuesday weighed in via tweet, saying “our intelligence has informed us that the Chinese Government is moving troops to the border with Hong Kong.” -Donald Trump
He must have seen it on Twitter or Fox News, the only sources he trust.
1
So the 300,000 Canadian Hong Kongese thought they had an exit strategy? What about those kids who have nowhere to go? Are they - and their parents - going to become the bag holders when things really go south in a hurry? These people are nuts to think the U.K. or the U.S. would come to the rescue when the authoritarian wind is whirling worldwide. Right wing extremists are no better than authoritarians in the name of Communism.
This is not to say they should give up the ideal but know when to hold and when to fold is a way to live to fight another day. Pushing the other side to the corner invites the only reaction
2
Beijing wants that extradition law in Hong Kong badly and they'll eventually kill people in order to get it. That law must be removed from the Hong Kong agenda but it will keep coming back. Beijing's strategy is clear.
5
There are peaceful protests and there are riots. Demands can and shall be presented in a proper lawful format not accompanied by wanton destruction of property and endangering peace.
Every government's primary responsibility is to guarantee and maintain public order for its citizens. The Chinese aren't any different from our own, regardless what their political system is.
If anything, HK is only accelerating the gradual loss of their agreed-to special status, giving the perfect justification to Beijing to bring the final integration date of 2047 much closer.
The HK demonstrators can't be this dim.
4
Truly a messed up situation.
Foreign visitors and travelers drawn into the protests. But the Chinese government precipitated it by attempting to intimidate people from protesting by using their relationships to Cathay.
The police behaving brutally in an arbitrary manner may seem like great fun to the authorities in Beijing, used to behaving with extra nastiness just to show that they have life and death power over people but it's contemptuous of the lives of people and the people in Hong Kong are insulted and unwilling to accept it passively. Probably as stupid an act as any official could do outside of the totalitarian state of the Republic of China.
1
And for all his belligerent bluster about China, is Trump standing up for the citizens of Hong Kong, for democracy?
Nope.
Crickets from the WH. Or worse, sympathizing with Xi.
The leverage we could exert against China for violating human rights in HK or against the Uighurs is squandered for his useless, and obviously now that he’s postponing them for Christmas junk, unnecessary tariffs.
Stupid.
Unstrategic and unprincipled.
5
@Earthling. Kind of like Barack and the Arab Spring, right?
@Earthling
' the citizens of Hong Kong' are Chinese citizens.
HK is part of China.
Start there.
2
The demonstrators, many being teenage boys, are at an age when idealism and feeling invulnerable come together often with tragic outcomes. Like being trapped in the subway and assaulted with tear gas, they have scant chance of escape from the China government, forever looming and eventually to absorb them under its full control. That they are now joined by their elders, suggests that this is no starry-eyed demonstration. Yet, what can it achieve? The Chinese government will not bow to demands, will insist on the status quo. Let's hope that the point of major bloodshed is not reached. It would be devastating, in different ways, for both sides.
7
@blgreenie
Stanley Cup riots of 'idealistic teenagers' in Vancouver.
Or equally idealistic university students at Kent State, resulting in a few of them being shot dead by the National Guard.
You can't be this naive. Teenagers and young people relish making trouble. Everywhere. Nothing special about China, or HK. It is just part of growing up.
1
@blgreenie
The Chinese regime is unable to govern anyone with a sense of having human rights. They consider anybody as just expendable in achieving their aims, so individuals are not valued, humans have no rights.
2
Is anyone else annoyed that in articles like this the journalist barely (if ever) describes WHY the protestors are protesting? For people who have not been following this story closely, it's just basic journalism to describe the SUBJECT of the protests. And do it in the opening, instead of just describing that there are protests and that its affecting the airport and that people are upset. I've noticed this problem with a lot of news articles about protests in general. They tend to shy away from reporting on the whole reason the event is happening in the first place. I find it very annoying. Anyone else?
10
The protesters don't even know why they are protesting themselves...
4
@Nick Towne
They protest, because they can and it's fun to mock the authorities. Their goal? Pick one, then pick another. They demonstrate for demonstrations' sake, that's all.
2
@waldo And you say this from the safety of Canada. Try living in a Communist country and then see what you would try to do to get out.
1
They live in China. Hard to accept for some. Not everyone can get the visa.
5
It is a time of uprising for both China and Russia. Both are facing mass protests. Both will be exposed to the world using force against the protestors. Both will be exposed as dictatorial nations.
The curtain they so carefully weave is being pulled back. All the world recognizes who they really are. They can never be our "friends". They will always be our adversaries.
3
@AACNY
'The world' is bigger, much bigger, than NY. And as much as would like to believe, that you are perfect and everybody else is scum, regretfully you are not and they are not either.
As for 'friends' - you have fewer and fewer every day. Ask yourself why. Hint: it's not 'Trump'.
2
Blablablablabla...both of them have to deal with US supported protests until they are provoked to a point of no return...and America will invoke yet another fake intervention and fool its citizen with smoke in their eyes...been there, done that ✅
1
Hong Kong, Sudan, Puerto Rico, Moscow, Venezuela, I must be missing some, oh yes, the United States is notably absent in protesting against dictators. What will you do if Trump and his enablers are re-elected?
@Jean louis LONNE Let us know when Macron has something to say, yes?
3
Chinese troops are gathering at the China/Hong Kong border. Not good for anybody. A Chinese military invasion into Hong Kong might break the USA/China tariff deal and send markets back down after today’s rally .
5
@GCAustin Are you saying Hong Kong is not part of China, since when? Where does "invasion" come from? Learn some history please.
3
If Xi senses that the government in Hong Kong is weakening/wavering, there is no doubt he will send in troops. He will not allow chaos to continue and his justification will be to bring order and stability and to protect law-abiding citizens. We've seen this movie too many times in too many places across the globe to have any doubt of the outcome.
And, in this country, Trump will admire Xi's resolve and wish he could do the same.
2
You got it all upside down...Trump is supporting the protests in order to weaken China...and yes, we ve seen the movie before but you are still falling for it!
1
I worry this will not end well for Hong Kongers but I am praying for them, I applaud their bravery, creativity and tenacity.
11
@Reeree
You seem to think, that ALL HK residents are with the demonstrators. There were and are pro-government matches as well, to the tune of several hundred thousands HK residents taking part, who had enough. Why didn't the Western press report, or cover them?
3
I totally understand their frustrations. Many are stuck in a 400 ft apartment with entire family. They live a groundhog day everyday. They feel their voices are unheard and future is diminishing.
However, blocking travelers in and out of boarding areas can't be condoned. I do feel it is near tipping point.
5
Let us not forget Hong Kong was originally part of China and was taken from them by Britan. China will never give it back. Be thankful for their patients.
3
Just as they are everywhere, the police in Hong Kong are not there to "protect the people". They are there to enforce the will of the ruling class. A cudgel against any real dissent.
In Chicago in 1968, "The whole world was watching!" as tanks rolled down Michigan Ave to quash the will of the majority of the people at the behest of the powerful elite.
That moment revealed, in stark reality, that while the vast majority of people in this country consider themselves to be living in a democracy - what we've all been taught in schools from an early age, i.e. that the voice of the people is paramount - is nothing but a well polished illusion.
As long as the masses remain relatively content, and more importantly relatively peaceful, then the illusion seems real. But make no mistake, as soon as people try to forcibly express a political position which is at odds with the will of the 1%, the batons and tear-gas will follow. Just as surely as the students at Kent State were shot and killed with impunity.
The only time real democracy exists, is for the very short period when corrupt governments are overthrown by the masses. And this quickly evaporates, as the leaders of that movement consolidate themselves into a new ruling class - and the illusion of self-governance is sold all over again.
Real democracy is like lightning in a bottle - only twice as fleeting. My guess is that the movement in Hong Kong will be ruthlessly crushed unless it goes all the way to complete independence.
12
Meanwhile Nike, afraid of angering China, dropped its collaboration with Undercover designer Jun Takahashi because he sided with the protesters. So much for believing in something even if it means sacrificing everything.
17
Maybe Nike agrees with China...isn't that believing in something?
1
God help the protesters!
I fear this will not end well, but unlike the Chinese students in '86 (who already had little to begin with), the people of Hong Kong have everything to lose and nothing to gain by allowing China to remove their rights. Hence the protests will only continue unless Carrie Lam officially removes the illegal proposal, something she (ie China) refuse to do.
2
This will not end well. Any minute now Beijing will step in and end the protests. The protesters will have only themselves to blame for the violence they will encounter.
1
Aristotle, "the Master of those who know," according to Dante, taught us that there is a difference between rashness and courage and cowardice. He advised taking the middle course.
These HK protesters are being rash. They have a lot to lose and little, if anything, to gain.
Never play against a stacked deck; Beijing holds all the cards here. Protesters may win a moral victory that will be celebrated in their graves. That's what called losing. A fool and his life are soon parted.
5
"President Trump on Tuesday weighed in via tweet, saying “our intelligence has informed us that the Chinese Government is moving troops to the border with Hong Kong.”"
He also would have learned that if he'd watched Christiane Amanpour's show last night.
2
This protest group is much smarter than those of the past. I'll just say in plainly - previous protests groups are dumb as rocks compared to this one. They actually learn from the mistakes of previous protests. They don't ignore that previous peaceful protests all over the world have for the most part failed. Many older folks believe pretend previous protests had an effect when they actually completely failed and bombed such as Occupy Wall Street.
I like their lack of leadership. I like their tactics. I like how they defend against police tactics like smothering tear gas. I like this generation's feeling that purely peaceful protests don't work in the modern era.
I fear the result will be the same as Tiananmen Square, but maybe these young protests may actually have a plan to react to the impending PLA massacre. So far they have impressed me.
3
@FrankM
Occupy Wall St did not fail. It has morphed into a Bernie Sanders candidacy.
I recently flew back and forth between Taiwan, Vietnam and EU. All the cheapest flights had a connection in HK so, knowing the situation, I didn't book them. This has allover the news and the protesters announced well in advance that the airport would be blocked. I feel sorry for foreign travelers stuck there but they should have known better. The people of HK are stuck in something much worse as a totalitarian superpower is removing the last bits of democracy from them.
4
This is what happens when minority rule ignores the will of The People. Protests lead to civil disobedience which leads to chaos and anarchy. Don't blame the citizens for this - blame the leadership for fanning the flames of rebellion.
5
China is a police state. It will have to be stopped at some point, same as Trump's Republican Party and Putin's Russian Federation. The new Axis.
4
@Eugene Debs So US is not a police state?
1
The protesters are to be admired. Unfortunately Lam still talks about police solution, and law & order only. Tells you how tone deaf authoritarian regimes, and their reps. are. This extradition bill issue could have been solved peacefully months ago, but Carrie Lam and her absurd stubborness have carried the protests this far. This is a good example of how authoritarian regimes do not listen, and are not caring beyond what they approve.
4
Admired until Beijing decides the protesters have provided the perfect time and excuse to remove Hong Kong's freedom. Then HK will look back at the "good old days". The days of self rule are numbered anyway, but the extent of the protests and violence are moving that time closer and with more pain to HK.
The protesters are to be admired. Unfortunately Lam still talks about police solution, and law & order only. Tells you how tone deaf authoritarian regimes, and their reps. are. This extradition bill issue could have been solved peacefully months ago, but Carrie Lam and her absurd stubborness have carried the protests this far. This is a good example of how authoritarian regimes do not listen.
2
The protesters are smart to move to the airport. It was possible for the army to surround Tiananmen Square, send in tanks, and kill the demonstrators there but you can't do that in an airport terminal.
5
Is the Times deliberately understating the violence initiated by the protestors? They state that the protestors beat two men and that one fainted. The WSJ is reporting that they beat one man, who became unconscious, and then tied him to a cart and wheeled him around the airport for hours, preventing paramedics from providing medical service. A second man was beTen on the floor by several people, and protestors took a policeman’s baton and beat him with it.
The question now has become when and hiw will Beijing respond. I think we will know by the end of the week
3
@luxembourg Times' is making its deliberation too obvious.
1
The protesters are to be admired. Unfortunately Lam still talks about police solution, and law & order only. Tells you how tone deaf authoritarian regimes, and their reps. are. This extradition bill issue could have been solved peacefully months ago, but Carrie Lam and her absurd stubborness have carried the protests this far. This is a good example of how authoritarian regimes do not listen, and are not caring beyond what they approve.
1
At least, the cop did not fire his gun.
1
If this happened at JFK how do you think the NYPD would react?
3
“It’s unclear what information, if any, Mr. Trump has.”
Need this even be said?
2
Feels like the world is crumbling
1
Independence for the people of Hong Kong!
Freedom from the oppressors in Beijing.
6
Your Move, Stable Genius.
Terrifying.
If only the NYTimes treated American protesters the way they treat Hong Kong protesters:
"hodgepodge Lower Manhattan encampment"
"rabble-rousing"
"noisy occupation"
"demonstrators are in their teens or 20s"
"well-worn anarchists"
"try out protesting and see how it feels"
"Their politics zigzag wildly"
"bedraggled look"
"When will all this end"
https://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/01/nyregion/wall-street-occupiers-protesting-till-whenever.html
6
How do you say "Les Miserables" in Mandarin?
1
Well, the protestors should consider themselves lucky. If they had occupied an airport in america, there would be a masacre by now. Imagine black lives matter protesters entering and disrupting Newark airport. This will be a death wish.
4
FREEDOM!
2
This is not going to end well... Get ready for "Tianamen II"
It is sad to look at this chaos and such kind protests will go no where. These young people lack strategy and their goal is unrealistic. The reality is that Hong Kong is not as important as it used to be. In the past, it enjoyed the proximity to the west and they served as trading hub between mainland China and the west. With economic development in China, Hong Kong is losing that charm. Shanghai, QingDao and DaLian, all these cities along east coast are open to the world, and China also have multiplied talents knowing internal laws and business. Hong Kong is dwindling.
I understand these young people's feeling, but they have to come up new ideas in stead such irrational behaviors.
5
The leaders in Beijing should consider that if they do to Hong Kong what was done to the students in in Beijing in 1989, it will not be in secret, it will be in full view of the entire world. It will not be just forgotten in a couple of weeks.
3
These are brave people who deserve our support in fighting against tyranny wherever it exists. May they have the power they need to succeed in their struggle.
6
It's quite comical that bunches Americans sitting in front of a monitor at the comfort of home, talking down international travelers who are painfully disrupted by this occupying airport movement.
It is simply not fair for the protestors to externalize this on the travelers. They are not part of this. They cannot change the situation in Hong Kong.
9
@Avi
Yeah...I guess totalitarianism really is "fair" either.
1
@Avi If the international travelers you speak of had paid attention to the alerts and warnings posted by several governments over the past days and weeks they might never have found themselves at the Hong Kong airport.
5
@Avi
Hopefully, Americans will learn why and how to use the methods of non-violent non-cooperation to express themselves. What we see today in Hong Kong is far superior to airing grievances and anger with an AR-15 in a public place.
3
Hong Kong is a vibrant democracy. China is a repressive dictatorship. It is becoming increasingly clear from China’s actions that the two systems cannot coexist in one country.
10
@Eli Beckman Except Hong Kong isn't, and has never been a democracy. It is fine to support what the protesters have done, including blocking the airport, but many of the comments here are from people who don't have any real knowledge of what the situation is in HK, and what they are protesting against. As an American, it is kind of embarrassing.
2
I see no indication whatsoever that " protestors" are becoming "desperate." And it's both ridiculous and misleading to quote a peeved traveller or two to suggest public support for this ongoing show of resistance is waning.
The breadth and depth of Hong Kongers' support for those on the streets risking their own futures is one of the most remarkable aspects of this uprising. Without that support, the protestors would have been thoroughly crushed by now.
And...good for them for occupying the airport, for making it impossible for the international business community to look the other way.
8
History is repeating itself but on another continent. More tyranny rather than democracy emerged from the Arab spring. It looks like Hong Kong will a face similar outcome.
If the world has learned anything from past quelled citizen uprisings it is to expect a major migration of people who have the means or are desperate enough to escape. With the tightening of immigration policies, stricter asylum laws and expressed distaste for immigrants in many endpoint countries including the United States the future for these democracy fighters is bleak.
China has drawn the immutable red line. It’s just a matter of time.
I hope this comment is proven wrong.
1
What is good about this Hong Kong revolt is also what's bad about the Hong Kong revolt. No leaders. It is good in that the PLA can't come in and imprison and torture the leadership. It's bad in that there is no one to talk to and make bargains with. This is a social media driven revolt.
Hopefully this ends soon before Beijing sends in the PLA or these kids go back to school and quiet this thing down. Otherwise, because this is Communist and authoritarian China, it will not end well for Hong Kong and its people if it does not end soon.
4
I totally agree with the one traveler that said she supported the protesters but thought their strategy was wrong. Their strategy is absolutely wrong. What the protesters are doing is childish. The fact that they are blocking travelers to their departure gate is childish. It's as if you're not getting your way so you're ruining other peoples' day. That's absolutely unacceptable behavior.
9
News today the Chair of UK Parliament's Foreign Policy committee proposes granting UK nationality to Hong Kong citizens as should have been done from the get-go. The current ceding to China was done in the delusory heyday of Soviet collapse confidence that China would "inevitably" gravitate toward Hong Kong style democracy rather than drag it screaming into a ChiCom dragon's maw. Even the Tiananmen massacre was taken then as early stage mainland "awakening" instead of the last word it has turned out to be. Hong Kong deserved then and now better than it got in the post-colonial sell-out.
8
Sadly the rest of the world only backs these brave protestors with words, not action. We will continue to do business with and enrich China’s murderous communist party long after these protestors are squashed in order to produce the cheapest goods possible and consume as much as we possibly can at the lowest prices possible.
4
It seems to me that the PLA needs to “mow the grass” in HK. They need only to look to their west to find a nation that knows how to employ that tactic on a restless population in an adjacent territory.
3
Yes, sarcasm. And, as you sarcastically allude to there are “barbarians” and “heros” all across the globe; but that those terms are fundamentally fungible and depend on the currency that you choose to adopt escapes most people.@WestSider
1
As a mainlander Chinese, with access to Cantonese, Mandarin, English reports, posts and information, I have to say the narrative of NYT is deeply biased, if not factually wrong. The violence done by the protestors is never mentioned here. The protest started from request to withdraw the extradition bill (which the Hong kong government indeed withdrew), esclated into a ill-formed movement with multiple parties with no consensus on the purpose of protest other than waving flags and chanting slogans. The Hong Kongese people are not asking for democracy, because they already have it. There are many good policies in retrospect aborted because of popular will of HKers. The problem of Hong Kong is not in government. It's plutocracy, that all economy activities are virtually controlled by the very very wealthiest and they are doing nothing to improve the lives of the common. The government, and the police is the only scapegoat they can turn to.
18
Aren't the police trained in non-violent methods of removing protesters? A shame they turn to swinging the baton against unarmed civilians. #SHAME
2
@Larry: armchair policing is quite easy... these protesters are numerous and aggressive. They throw missiles (bricks, iron rods, umbrellas). If you don't want to be charged by police, then you should leave the vicinity. There is no justification for being part of an illegal mob, and you can have no complaint if you are injured by "non-lethal" means of crowd control under the circumstances. The right action is to disperse when the police tell you to!
There have been problems because of the spread of the mobs into adjoining spaces (which in Hong Kong can be very close), and some innocent bystanders have been hurt. However, you have to put yourselves in the position of the police who are working very hard, are doing long shifts and are being attacked, and can find it difficult to separate antagonists from bystanders. Overall, the police have done very well. If this happened in the US there would have been deaths by now.
4
China will kill these protesters. The world will watch, and then business will continue as usual. China is about to get away with a second Tienanmen Square Massacre.
5
@Al
It's even easier this time because the POTUS can't even seem to offer support to the people as he hopes "it turns out well...for China".
As for the UK...the offer of citizenship should have come back in 1997.
Paris Review: "Mencken, po-faced, called these protesters radicals and Bolsheviks, “men standing in contempt of American institutions and in enmity of American idealism.” They protest alone, he wrote, because—and here’s the first hint of his satirical intentions—most Americans aren’t foolish enough to believe that the Bill of Rights were meant to be taken literally. Through “legislative science” and “the even more subtle and beautiful devices of juridic art,” the document lost its spine and saw its guarantees diluted. It evolved into something much more malleable, less a legally binding document than a set of ten rough ideas. Should you disagree, Mencken said, you reveal your ignorance of the basic principles of American jurisprudence, which are demonstrated time and again in our nation’s highest courts.
Never breaking from this tongue-in-cheek routine, he condemned human-rights protests as “florid appeals to sentimentality.” Instead, he advocated for the very corruptions he had just exposed, “the checks and remedies superimposed upon the Bill of Rights by the calm deliberation and austere logic of the courts of equity.”
Democracy for all over China, it's time for main land China to rise, in strength stand tall in the night shoulder to shoulder the United States of America is seeing you and the whole world knows.
1
This is a revolt against communist tyranny pure and simple
4
Sadly, the army of mainland China, is in the millions, so it could easily overcome all of the hardline demonstrators. Let's hope that those under the government of mainland China, who are in charge on Hong Kong, send a message to Xi Jinping that the island won't ever be stable in the streets, unless they accept the desire for the freedoms that Hong Kong has always had, and don't want taken away. The only upside to closing the airport, is a lessening of air pollution caused by all of the air travel.
2
@MaryKayKlassen - What freedoms are being taken away? The extradition amendment has been dropped. They should all go home now.
2
For those who claim to champion individual rights and freedom, it’s curious to me that they willingly look away from the violence HK protestors are exacting on Chinese mainlanders in the airport. Once the protesters cross the line from protesting the CCP government to beating up individuals not in uniform, their movement loses legitimacy. I have profound sympathy for Hong Kongers and the political situation they’re stuck in, but it doesn’t go as far as to overlook violence.
9
Shocking that Trump hasn't tied the protests to his trade "negotiations."
If England leaving the EU is "good" for America, then more democracy for Hong Kong should be too, as we already find ourselves faced off with China.
Anything is possible. Team Trump continuing to drop the ball seems most likely.
1
@Thomas
How do you now this? Just because he doesn't bleat about democracy doesn't mean he's not taking advantage of it.
I am not an American, I work here for a few years now and it's odd to see comments from Americans here suggesting to take notes from these young HK protesters. What these inspiring protesters are doing takes a lot of courage, commitment and sacrifice.
When I speak to my colleagues and friends here, young Americans (smart, educated, work in tech)... they don't read the news, they do not care much about politics (guns and kids separated at the border are no big deal to them) and openly admitting they did not vote in 2016, and may not even do so in 2020. Their everyday worry and priority is how to pay rent, childcare and the single ones probably worry about about have enough money to buy weed (legal in CA).
How can they take "notes" when their way of life and mentality is different.
7
@Reeree
Americans think "taking a knee" is the equivalent of marching against a dictatorial regime. They are extremely sheltered.
2
This is really sad and these people are really brave, I hope they stay safe and elect a new person who represents them.
7
I love Hong Kong. It was always welcomed a trip from the mainland when I lived there. They have built something fantastic that the repressive mainland could never do under current circumstances. Tall buildings and fancy cars don't do the trick-- especially when all that money came from grabbing real estate and selling off state owned enterprises without adequately compensating pensioners. To maintain short term peace anyway, Ms. Lam should resign, apologize and move to the mainland. The police should go through better training for protest situations, and that bill should be withdrawn. It won't solve all problems but it would be a start.
11
Best if Trump does not tweet about this so, of course he will. The Chinese leadership already seeks, ludicrously, to blame the protests on US agitation. Trump is many things, but he would be more concerned about damage to 'that beautiful airport' than the democratic aspirations of millions of Hong Kong people. China simply hopes to deflect from their attempts to speed up the handover timetable.
It is touching, and sad considering the tattered state of American democracy that some protesters wave US flags. Under cover of his ongoing trade war, Trump could raise the possibility of banking sanctions for any further overt mainland intervention in HK. This would hit the leadership where it hurts, but it is doubtful Wilbur Ross would approve. I'm sure Trump's experienced diplomatic corps has already proposed similar responses, among several contingency plans... wait what?
4
@Sal A. Shuss What exactly is he tattered state of American democracy? Is there some reason you can’t vote, read a newspaper, get a job?
4
@Jackson
If you don't believe our democracy is tattered, with all due respect, you are not paying much attention.
According to the Director of National Intelligence report in 2017, "Russian President Vladimir Putin ordered an influence campaign in 2016 aimed at the US presidential election. Russia’s goals were to undermine public faith in the US democratic process, denigrate Secretary Clinton, and harm her electability and potential presidency. We further assess Putin and the Russian Government developed a clear preference for President-elect Trump.” Not to mention voting district gerrymandering, voter suppression campaigns, conspiracy mongering and general apathy. We can do better.
2
I remember visiting Vancouver Canada in 1990 and seeing the first big wave of HK wealth migration.
Their building mini mansions on the once pristine hillsides overlooking the Vancouver bay inlet while their children drove around in new Mercedez and BMWs.
"In 1990, the outflow of people reached a peak of 62,000 people or about 1% of the population. The emigration rate would reach the peak in 1992 with 66,000 people, followed by 53,000 in 1993, and 62,000 in 1994. An estimated US $4.2 billion flowed from Hong Kong to Canada directly as a result.[2] - source Wikipedia.
7
@Alfred E Newman: And then a whole load went back... once they realised that life under Chinese sovereignty would not be significantly different than life under the British... Many could not get work in Canada and other parts of the diaspora, and Hong Kong was booming because of China trade (with support from the Central Government, in fact).
I wish that people would realise that life in Hong Kong is not like life in China. Our government is NOT authoritarian, and there is some (albeit limited) democratic representation. These protests are much more complicated than just being about the extradition amendment, which will not now be passed.
3
@Andrew And in this whole conversation is a very concerning situation for Canada. Will Overseas Chinese in Vancouver, as they reach numerical and financial dominance, assimilate into the Canadian matrix of culture? (With Quebec a possible exception.) Or will the province of British Columbia choose (or be forced to choose) an actual or de facto political sovereign entity? (Again, like Quebec in its secession elections of 1980 and 1995.) The failed Malaysia merger of Singapore in 1963 being the most obvious example of possible similarity on these issues.
I have great sympathy and admiration for the Hong Kong protesters, but from the moment Hong Kong reverted to China, its assimilation into the mainland was inevitable. This is a fight worth having, but one I fear they can't win, alas.
19
@ John B -
You make some good points, but I believe the citizens of Hong Kong *can* win. Just like any uprising, it will be a long arduous battle. Tragically, people will be hurt and killed. But it is definitely possible for them to win this war.
@Durr Adoya How do you reckon that this will happen? A large number of the people who didn't want their descendants to live in a PRC-assimilated China left when they had the opportunity in the late 90s. Of the people who remain in Hong Kong, a significant portion actually favor eventual assimilation with Beijing. How can a partial subset of a small colony of 7 million people possibly win against the largest country in the world (especially when the international community has agreed that that the colony is part of that country). I suspect that mainland China will half-heartedly continue to honor the "2 systems" agreement until 2047, but after that, I think the best hope that the people of HK have is that mainland China's system will have democratized by that time.
2
A warning for the protesters in Hong Kong: thirty years ago the Chinese government starkly warned the student demonstrators in Tienanmen Square to disperse or face "dire consequences". The students ignored the warning, and we all know the results. To this day no one outside of the Chinese government knows how many were killed when the PLA moved on the square. Please disperse now. By shutting down one of the world's busiest airports, you have placed yourselves in great danger.
3
@Maryland Chris Here is another suggestion....leave now. Move your money and assets to another country (US, Australia, European countries). This will not end well for the residents of HK.
1
I do not believe that is the mentality to have if anyone wants to change anything. Letting the the mainland government win and take their democracy with no fight would be a huge tragedy. So would people dying, but i ask you what do you think the whole point of this life is because its not just staying alive.
@ Maryland Chris -
The Hong Kong protesters know exactly how much danger they're in and are willing to take the risk. Just like our own Revolutionaries stood up against Britain. If China was trying to take over the US, I wouldn't just stay home hiding behind curtains and allow that to happen. Would you?
1
it is sad that few militant anarchists ...are ruining a peaceful movement that represented the hopes and dreams of millions. There is no civilized state will tolerate ransacking public and institution and airports. It is foolish to even think the CCP will tolerate any separatist demands. this is heading to a showdown
4
"Political power grows out of the barrel of a gun", according to Mao Zedong.
The only reason these protests have gone on as long as they have is because the Chinese government has allowed it. They can step in anytime they feel it is necessary to publicly massacre thousands of demonstrators. They would prefer not to have to do it, for practical reasons such as loss of reputation and damage to their international trade. But rest assured that maintaining control over all of their territory, including Hong Kong, is not something they consider optional.
In a worst case scenario, the Chinese government could even send the entire 7.4 million population of Hong Kong off to death camps and repopulate the city with brainwashed minions from the mainland. Both Stalin and Mao had no problems with the mass slaughter of their own citizens.
The Chinese army has over 2 million in active duty, with a 1.4 billion population they can recruit from. How many guns do the protesters have?
4
@A Cynic: You are doing it again... On what basis? This is not the Hong Kong that exists in your imagination. Yes, Chinese control of the territory is non-negotiable, but this is not a simple situation. PLA would only come in if the HK government requested it, which they would do if they completely lost control. The main problem is the damage that the protesters are doing to Hong Kong. They are illegally attacking police and disrupting our lives unnecessarily.
The best thing would be if the protesters would just go home and them come to talk peacefully with Carrie Lam, as she offered.
1
As a person who has visited Hong Kong many times, I am somewhat confused by the tourists claiming to be "trapped" in Hong Kong solely because the airport is shut down. Macau International Airport is directly across the bay from Hong Kong International Airport. You just take a ferry and book a flight.
An inconvience? Yes.
But trapped? No.
25
@Sándor Think about how elitist that sounds. Maybe multi-millionaires can afford to just change their transcontinental flight to a different flight out of Macau, but the majority of regular people wouldn't.
@Dave Rensberger
Your strange assertion that one must be "a multi-millionaire" to do a flight change is not credible enough to bother rebutting.
And, since you obviously haven't been there, Macau is not the playground of the idle rich. It happens to be mostly a shanty town with ugly casinos and is called the Tijuana of East Asia.
Flocks of poor U.S. college students fly to Macau to stay in inexpensive hotels and to pick up prostitutes queued in front of the casinos. And these college students do flight changes every day depending on how hungover or wasted they are. "Multi-millionaires" they ain't.
I am very afraid for the protestors. They are very brave, but this will not end well for them. They are up against a monolith.
4
This may end just as it did in Tiananmen Square as the mainland gov't cannot allow it to go on and possibly ignite more independence movements in China. Obviously Carrie Lam could have ended it months ago by backing down, but with prodding from Mainland, she has not done so.
2
seems to me the police are reasonably restrained, what would happen if US protesters tried to shut down a major airport?
The protest targets are on the whole rather vague, it seems like having an adventure is part of it. They better be careful, they may be killing the golden goose they depend on because Hong Kong is totally dependent on trade and commerce, and a lot of it can go elsewhere.
8
Where is your sense of decency? There is no moral equivalence between the pro democracy protesters and the authoritarian regine and police firing tear gas into crowded subways. Stop being an apologist for tyrants.
3
@Barry Schiller: Good point - I think that you are not far off the mark, especially regarding the risks for the future. Cantonese-speaking youths (many with poor English and an aversion to Mandarin) will not fare well elsewhere.
The so-called peaceful protesters hurt a man so badly and blocked him from receiving medical treatment, kept him for over four hours after harming him. I think the double standard is glaring, in US we call it force imprisonment, but in HK you call it fighting for democracy. Consider if protestors occupied JFK and hurt people who doesn’t agree with them? What would you name it?
8
While I also think this behavior is unacceptable, my understanding is that the protesters believed the man was an undercover security officer from the mainland. Without knowing the full details of what happened, I don’t think it is fair to use this isolated case to draw a broad conclusion that they are attacking those who disagree with them. From what I see and hear, the protesters are targeting the police force and not civilians, even when they were yelled or spitted at by some locals. It’s unfortunate the situation has turned violent and I don’t think this approach will end well, but let’s also not play into the cards of the PRC govt in declaring all the protesters as “rioters”. As the movement grew in size, it is inevitable to have a wide spectrum of protesters with differing interests and tolerance for violence, plus the possibility of pro-PRC factions disguised as violent protesters to sabotage the protests. Despite the circumstances, it is encouraging to see so many young HK’ers in the front line fighting for the city’s freedom, even though we may not agree with some of their tactics. HK is one of the most materialistic cities - with many growing up with helpers at home, access to luxury goods, gadgets, etc - so it’s commendable to see the younger generation stepping out of their comfort zones and becoming more civic conscious.
4
Testing.
Testing the police.
Testing Carrie Lam.
Testing themselves. How far are these brave people willing to go, how much are they willing to risk, to rid themselves of a corrupt government?
We should all be ‘pro’ testers.
5
@Very Confused: "Corrupt government"??? In what way? And you are writing from Queens, in the US, under a venial self-aggrandising and self-focussed, unindicted co-conspirator?
Maybe some are brave, but they are mostly confused, and risking the wide range of freedoms that we have, as well as the economic health of the city. A large proportion of the citizens want this to stop, but these hooligans want their time in the spotlights.
@Andrew
Since you are there, you must know more about what is going on. Thank you for setting the record straight.
Where is the US government in this battle for freedom over communist authoritarian rule? I thought we were the stalwarts of democracy and capitalism? Yet here our leaders sit, condemning socialism at home at every chance, but ignoring a blatant attack on a desperate attempt to maintain freedom by individual citizens of HK. Sad Donald!
4
@aDoc. Do tell us what you would like us to do. Still using that made in China cell phone? Made in China pc?
1
@aDoc The GOP are watching and taking notes to see what they will be able to get away with here.
2
Western nations need again to raise the threat level on their travel advisories for Hong Kong and the the People's Republic of China because of the increased violence by police and agents of Beijing posing as protestors, (this time at a hub for foreign nationals). Our governments owe it to our citizens to advise them to avoid all non-essential travel to Hong Kong and Beijing.
2
While I do fear that Beijing will step up the pushback and aggression against the protesters I have to add my admiration to the statements of many others regarding the persistence, resilience and bravery of these Hong Kong citizens who are insistent on preserving their free society. They aren't simply tweeting they are out on the streets in great numbers and are showing enormous bravery. Life in Trumplandia is so corrosive of our democracy that it is quite the contrast that we are not flooding into the streets by the thousands on a regular basis to protest the erosion of our freedoms and our civic society.
8
@Sally Peabody: Actually, our situation does not require protests, and definitely a lot less than in the US. We have freedom of speech, of assembly and of movement. We have elections. We have no assault rifle problem, we have general healthcare, we are not putting people in concentration camps - believe me, refugees get treated relatively humanely compared with what you are doing. Why are you letting these children be caged? The extradition amendment has been dropped and, really, these protesters are now simply a nuisance as well as a danger to our brave law enforcement.
Readers here keep thinking of HK as like China, but the situation is much closer to the US, with similar rights and freedoms (including elections for legislators). Imagine what would happen if protesters broke into Congress, doing $4million worth of damage, including urinating(!). Imagine if rioters were throwing missiles at police (stones, metal bars, umbrellas, fire extinguishers), and if one of the protesters bit off part of a policeman's finger? Imagine if they set fires at police stations? All of this has happened and is happening here. Please stop projecting cold war perspectives of China onto HK. It is a very bad fit.
2
It is totally stupid to relate what is happening in HK with US in any shape or form. If some commenters here are ready to take streets and fight against tyranny, as they foolishly say, they are free to do that and face the police for expressly breaking the law and ruining democracy.
As for HK situation, not sure that this can go on for too long, and also not sure who is going to give in. The easiest is that Lam goes away but that will not solve the problem. HK is now part of China and that entails variety of potential issues, such as one ongoing now. I am afraid it can end in more violence.
5
This was going to happen eventually. If you knew your city was set to become a mainland city in 2048, at some point between 1998 and 2048, you would protest too.
6
Let's not conflate the local LegCo (Hong Kong government) with China's central government.
LegCo has failed the locals by doing nothing to address the pain of its citizens, especially high housing cost. I doubt Beijing would bat an eye if LegCo opened up more land for development, spent more on welfare, or otherwise traded economic improvement for political submission (essentially the tacit bargain in the mainland).
An analogy is Sacramento and DC. While federal policies out of DC have real impact on California, some of the biggest problems, like high housing cost and poor public education, are the results of ineffective policy coming out of Sacramento.
For everyone's sake, LegCo led by Ms Carrie Lam really needs to step up and find a solution, before Beijing takes heavier actions.
7
@William Fang
We should not conflate the current Legislative Council of the HKSAR, established in 1998 in HK by the Chinese, with the also unrepresentative LegCo of Hong Kong, founded by the colonial British. The solution is for China to loosen its grip before it strangles the golden goose.
3
In Hong Kong, authorities have at least limited the use of out-of-uniform goon squads. I wonder how authorities would respond to this level of civil disobedience in the present day USA.
2
@Paul hard to say but I remember the violent police attacks approved by the Democrat party in 1968 Chicago.
@Paul And I wonder how you know that to be true.
@bx
As I recall it was Mayor Richard J. Daley who approved the police actions. Daley was a member of the Democratic Party.
1
This all started with Carrie Lam and legislation that would have allowed extraditions to mainland China. I've spent time in Hong Kong and can say that the people of Hong Kong do not want to live as the people of mainland China have had to do.
7
Good luck to the people of Hong Kong.
Any people struggling against dictators around the world and looking for help from President Trump will need it.
4
Some of the protestors carried a large American flag through the airport as Trump made a statement similar to Charlottesville - that he hoped both sides worked it out.
It is a disgrace for the president of the United States, representing the most powerful democracy in the world, to stay mute when it comes to both the Hong Kong and Russian pro-democracy movements, the former now comparable to Tiananmen Square.
This administration is now seen universally as siding with authoritarian regimes and ignoring the fundamental human rights that our Constitution was founded upon. It is shameful.
9
@Anonymous. So you want a war with China?
1
@Jackson
No; they should have lived up to the fifty year agreement made when Britain turned Hong Kong back over to China and not start throwing so called dissenters into a Chinese jail! If Trump had not decimated the State Department, we might have had negotiations instead of trade wars and a civil discussion over this human rights issue. We are two countries intertwined and when Trump and his group of idiots are through we will have a REAL wall between the two most powerful economies in the world and guess who will win? Not us.
1
Horrifying.
We have a president who will not step in and condemn this or offer support for democracy, a president who loves dictators and autocrats, a president who is blowing off gun massacres and instituting immigration raids designed to split up families, injure people, traumatize children.
The U.S. is a better country than China.
But we have much to be ashamed of with the current administration.
1
The US WAS a better country than China. Not now.
4
If you are concerned about what is happening in Hong Kong, don't just read and comment here (and elsewhere on social media). Call your senators and representative (in the US) or MPs, etc. (in the UK or elsewhere) and ask for them to make a statement about this, work to impose sanctions, etc. There have been multiple reports of troops massing in Shenzhen. Don't wait - call right now. It might not make a difference, but it is the best we can do.
2
sounds suspiciously like meddling with other country's internal affairs, why not the same outrage with conditions in Kashimir
1
@Laura. Politicians make statements all the time.
@Laura: No Laura, please start by really understanding the situation. Read the extradition amendment, and read this article: https://www.scmp.com/comment/opinion/article/3017719/hong-kong-extradition-protesters-made-five-demands-carrie-lam. Without it you will have no real understanding. Hong Kong is administratively and organisationally distinct from mainland China, and the conflict here is internal, even if it is driven by (mostly irrational) fears of the Central Government. Really, honestly, we are not in a conflict with an authoritarian regime and the protesters (many of whom have been quite violent) should not be lionised. We have elected legislators and our Chief Executive is elected by an Electoral College (sound familiar?). The protesters do not represent everyone, and they are not acting responsibly or with even their own best interests at heart. What you will do will actually harm the people of Hong Kong. Please urge your senators to stop taking simplistic views of Hong Kong. They could make things worse, not better.
The protesters need to step down and then come back for talks as Carrie Lam offered early on.
The idea tht it is needful to resort to ever more "desperate measures" to obtain or force change in government, seems to be a peculiarly Chinese one. The Maoists did this in the 60's-establishing the cult of personality of Mao, later imitated by many end stage Communist governments. Violence and zero sum thinking take hold and people educated only by the communist state-imitate their elders and the Soviets in ensuring that early peaceful protests always escalate to violence and brutality, justified in the name of political necessity. In HK this is being aided by interdfernce by Triads-criminal gangs hired by the Communist to prod the protesters into further foolish acts.
This will serve the mainland Chinese perfectly, now. Hong Kong islanders, having obtained their ends in stopping the governrment from imposing laws calling for prosecution of islanders in mainland courts, thinking their success proves a rule, are trying to squeeze the state and local government to surrender all it's authority at once, immediately. All this will do is bait the mainland to invade the island ,imposing a harsh dictatorship in the name of order-placing all blame on Hong Kong protesters and ending "two systems".
The islanders have certainly bearded the lion, but will find the inside of it's stomach far too close quarters for further protest.
Oi.
2
these people are taking a stand, risking bodily harm and arrest to support democracy. What can we learn from them?
3
These protesters are nothing but puppets for the rich elite who have not yet transferred their wealth from Hong Kong. They just need a little more time to get their money somewhere safe. Make no mistake, China will rightfully gain full control of this province of their country. Those of you who think some social-political change will occur because a bunch of snowflakes in the US whine are delusional. They might have gotten a boost from thinking Tiananmen Square was a spark for change in China, but they need to read the fine print of what's really happened post Tianamen Square. If my family was there, I would simply tell them to get out.
5
Stand strong, brave Hong Kong people! Look out for your friends and don't let provocateurs derail you. Prepare for blackouts of communications, but know the whole world is watching.
China can still and must back off from a violent confrontation and occupation in Hong Kong. High resolution images of PLA troops attacking these young demonstrators will make the fallout from the Tienanmen Square massacre look like a public relations picnic. Mainland leaders need to demonstrate tolerance, patience and even accommodation. Global leadership qualities, in other words, post-Genghis Khan.
3
@Sal A. Shuss: The whole world is too preoccupied reading Donald Trump's tweets...
Anyway, thank you for calling me brave. Aw shucks. Yes, indeed, these days you need to be brave to confront these masked, black-shirted youths, some of which are quite aggressive. Many have tried and have been harassed.
Actually, you do not understand the situation, especially if you have only been reading the NY Times, which, sadly, has not done a good job on objective reporting. As a long-time subscriber, that particularly pains me. I will read the NYT in general with a more critical eye from now on. The situation is complicated and is not simply a story of "brave fighters for democracy against an authoritarian government". Really. Read some of my other responses in the comments to this article.
I do indeed hope that the PLA does not get brought in to establish order, but if they do, it is highly likely that it will not be permanent, and would be according to the original agreement with the British. From the footage I have seen, the troops have been rehearsing crowd control moves similar to those used by US riot police. Still, situations can quickly get out of hand I would hate to see that here. The protesters achieved the dropping of the (maligned) extradition amendment, and they should step down.
1
I understand that people stand up for things they believe in , but I'm a bit troubled by the timing of these "spontaneous" protests. They start just in the middle of the "trade war" between China and Trump, which is very convenient for the last one.
5
@Dirk D I really don't think there's any conspiracy here, but it _is_ very unfortunate timing. These protests will bolster support for Trump's hard-line against China, even though I doubt there was any intention of that on the part of the protesters.
1
“Never doubt what a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world; indeed it is the only thing that has.” - Margaret Mead
4
Watching as CNN publicly embarrasses and goads the Chinese government into a forceful response. Feeling appalled with CNN. We are truly in the upside down. These young people have grown up in something resembling democracy and they now know they will lose it. Brave young people truly standing up for freedom while CNN refers to them as hooligans. ...
4
@Traisea: No... sigh... they will not lose if they step down. We really do have a fairly good system, elections, representation in government, rule of law etc.
Brave, perhaps in some cases, but mostly headstrong and foolhardy. You really do not understand the situation.
I need to look at CNN coverage... from what you have written it sounds as though they may have a better handle on things here (although I am not holding my breath).
1
Hong Kong police need to stand with and defend the the people of Hong Kong and stop being mercenaries for the mainland.
It is time for Hong Kong to hold a plebiscite. Let the people decide!
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@Celeste You are prejudging the situation. It is quite possible that the majority wants the protesters to step down. That is certainly the case with the majority of the people that I know here. And we have a range of positions - not all are simply "pro-Beijing", by any means - we are pro-Hong Kong.
And... the police are not mercenaries. They *are* defending the people of Hong Kong. I and many others want them to maintain law and order (which they are doing despite the best illegal endeavours of the protesters, some of whom are violent and should be in jail). Beijing has no involvement in law enforcement. Do you actually know anyone connected with the HK police, as I do? Or any of the other groups, as I do?
1
It would be interesting to know what percentage of Hong Kong's police forces are natives of Hong Kong, vis-à-vis imported from the Mainland to suppress the local citizenry. I have been unable to ascertain that number. Hopefully, the NYT can answer that in future articles.
2
NYT reporter, you missed the key detail. The riot police arrived the scene to escort an injured Mainlander, which protesters had caught him earlier today. The protesters accused the Mainlander is a spy and refused to allow paramedic to help the Mainlander.
6
Hong Kong,
The world’s activists are watching and are there with you. Keep strong
7
Just curious if NYT dare to tell people that innocent mainland tourist and reporters are beaten up by peaceful protesters. It still baffles me to the core that all of you still view it as a peaceful protest of democracy without knowing any truth. And I'm wondering if anybody in here, saying that Hong Kong is fighting for its best life, has any idea how much resources Hong Kong has been receiving from mainland China in the past decades, and who are the true causes for the agony Hong kong is currently facing. A hint: communism party is not the only cause, merely the biggest one.
13
So sorry if our fight for freedom and justice inconvenienced your holiday.
4
@Celeste AS you sit in NY........
1
@Celeste "Our fight"? Go and get your own - this one is already taken.
Actually this fight is not the one you were looking for... it is not actually for "freedom and justice". It is much more complicated. If you look into it, most of the wrongs are actually on the side of the protesters. They have been reducing our liberty in real ways.
The conflagration fueled by outsiders will be burned out when funding flow from the CIA and Taiwan are dried out. Money talks anywhere as all these proxy foot soldiers fight on the street under the direction of the sinister and vile plotters.
2
Imagine what would happen in our “Democratic” society if the people who want to ban assault rifles shut down Chicago O’Hare Airport for two days. I think the National Guard would lift the peaceful protesters up, put them in vans and throw them in jail.
7
According to the article, there are "...international standards for the use of less-lethal weapons like tear gas." I was unaware of this, so I informed myself by skimming through Geneva Academy (2018). I applied it to the circumstance where "...a woman who was hit in her right eye on Sunday, apparently by a projectile fired by police officers...". The following sections seemed to apply:
"8.3.5 [tear gas] Projectiles shall not be fired at the head or torso of an individual owing to the risk of death or serious injury from impact trauma."
"8.5.3 Targeting the face or head [with rubber bullets] may result in skull fracture and/or permanent damage to the eyes and even blindness."
Unfortunately, it is not a binding standard. But it is unique because it gives the rules of engagement for a protest using tactics of non-violent non-cooperation.
Cite:
Geneva Academy. Geneva Guidelines on Less-Lethal Weapons and Related Equipment in Law Enforcement. July 2018 From: www.geneva-academy.ch
2
@W: Thank you for the research. And generally the police here have kept to it. The case of the girl may not be as simple as you assume. I have heard reports that it could have been one of the ball-bearings that the protesters have been shooting. Perhaps you should look up the standards for the use of catapults with ball-bearings, bricks, metal rods and umbrellas (yes, really). And what about molotov cocktails which protesters have also used?
However, there have been situations where the police have been threatened by mobs where they feared for their safety. Police have been severely injured - one lost part of a finger that was bitten off. In these circumstances the rules may not be practical.
1
Just like Tim them square couple years ago, and now Hong Kong thousands of troops from China are moving in to the northern border of Hong Kong. Their heading to the international airport if any Hong Kong people are reading this please evacuate they will kill hunt you down send you back to mainland China and you will be a forgotten person. Courtesy prime mirror Ly.
World can only watch and now we can understand the atrocities of the Communist Party suffocate the freedom of the people the Hong Kong they also rule with the artifice like North Korea cam cowards. Is time for all Americans to pray for the people of Hong Kong. But you don't hear anything from Pres. Donald Trump.
Hong Kong, if you are reading this, we want you to know that we stand with you, and are supporting you fight for freedom!
Russia, is next in ousting Putin! His dictatorship will not last!
3
A man nearly got lynched there and people are still claiming it is “peaceful”. The double standard is glaring.
5
In my opinion the people of Hong Kong are shy in the brain department. What did they think was going to happen when they gave up their government to China? I did not see any protests in 1997. It was one master (England) handing the slaves over to another master (China). Now 20 years later they decide to wake up? Now you have Hong Kongers, (police) fighting their own people! I have some advice. You will NEVER end this thing until you are independent.
2
@joe What do you mean? Hong Kong has always been a Chinese territory. China lost its control after losing the Opium War against UK. Following your logic, you should recommend Puerto Rico to be independent since people there have been treated as second class citizens by Trump's government.
1
Mankind’s yearning for freedom will never end so long as their is one repressed person on this planet!
2
I think we should also put things in perspective here. I support the initial cause of the protest, which is objecting extraditing people from Hong Kong to mainland, since Hong Kong does have some level of independence after China regained control in 1997. However, I remember Hong Kong was a colony controlled by Britain before 1997, because of the treaty signed after China (Qing Dynasty) lost the opium wars to Britain. Are there any laws that extradite prisoners from Hong Kong to Britain for trial, similar to the law that main land China has proposed? If so, did people in Hong Kong protest against that? I doubt a British colony had as much independence as people there are demanding now. Would Britain have allowed such massive protest going on for months, which has gradually turned more violent? Finally, I can't imagine no police crackdown if a massive protest shutting down JFK or any other major Western country airport for 2 days.
7
The Chinese government is playing from an old playbook when social media was non-existent. The Chinese government is not capable of keeping up with the pace/sources of information right now. The Chinese government wants to control the information flow, but the flow of information is way too fast/fluid/ambidextrous for those Chinese old heads to control. They will come to learn this very soon.
6
@Ray The Chinese government can Hackman’s your cellphone and bank account. Keep laughing.
1
The aspirations of folks in Hong Kong are universal, inalienable,
Beijing should listen and listen well, and see themselves in such aspirations.
The Communist Party's aim of unity and economic progress has succeeded, so much so that it may now tackle larger, richer goals/aspirations (of liberty and freedom).
Be wise Xi.
5
I think the reasons so mentioned must be very strong as it provoked such a massive non- violent brawl which hindered the entire economy but as proponents passengers sayi g that there startegy is wrong, the protest must be done in away which makes the fallible authorities to realize what they have done and then rectification of that error should be intiated.
@Anonymous Your closed minded response is emblematic of Americans' apathy, bordering on contempt, of democratic action by ordinary people. I see it in many of my friends and colleagues in New York, most of whom claim to be anti-Trump and liberal. An unquestioning, ill-defined reverence for the "rule of law" and "order" and deference to "federal law enforcement", at the expense of the fundamental right of people to demand what they want from their government.
This attitude is what is driving the political realignment occurring in this country and around the world. Old definitions of left and right, Democratic and Republican, are becoming obsolete. Not all Trump supporters are anti-democrats, and not all Democrats are democrats.
4
Hong Kong citizens are rightfully concerned that an autocratic mainland China would use arbitrary extradition as a tool of oppression and political control. Make no mistake, that is a powerful weapon that president-for-life, President Xi, wants to hold over Hong Kong and eventually Taiwan.
Comments to the effect that US citizens should take to the streets here in protest against the Trump administration are premature, but perhaps not by much. Americans would take to the streets if Trump declared martial law or cancelled elections or refused to leave office after losing. Mass civil disobedience would likely result if our illegitimate Supreme Court banned abortion and gave fetuses full rights from the moment of conception. I’m less certain about the response to increasing moves towards theocracy, or abortion rights turned over to the states, or repeated mass shootings with assault weapons, or elections hijacked with possible foreign help.
To a significant extent, we’ve become numb to Trump’s transgressions. He just accused a former president and Secretary of State of potentially murdering Jeffrey Epstein, with limited outrage. The key is to gradually raise the temperature if you intend to boil the frog of democracy. President Xi, if he’s smart, will avoid a Tiananmen Square type massacre and neuter Hong Kong independence more gradually.
If protesters here and in Hong Kong and in Moscow are smart, they’ll insist on democracy and a government responsive to majority rule.
3
@Michael Tyndall I really want to believe you are correct, but the reality here in the USA is that we can't even get most folks to vote, let alone protest in the streets.
1
The movement will doom. There is no precedent that a street protest gets a political settlement in China, let alone the movement is headless. These activities will give the Chinese government an excuse to take back Hong Kong outright.
3
Change is good. Why does China fear change?
1
Communism/socialism can not function without total control of individuals in particular and society in general. However, I am surprised that the Chinese Communist Party under the leadership of Xi, is incapable of allowing the limited independence of Hong Kong. This freedom was written into the treaty between the United Kingdom and the People's Republic of China (PRC), to continue until the end of the agreement in 2047.
The fact that a mostly free Hong Kong is economically advantageous to the PRC is not as important as the domination of Hong Kong by the Communist Party. The freedoms that Hong Kong residents enjoy; freedom of religion, private schools, free press and media, representative government and somewhat free speech must be suppressed in favor Communist control. No one may be allowed to criticize the oppressive nature of the Communist/socialist system with the attendant denial of rights.
It is very concerning that this fabulous city may be ruined by the blight of Communism.
5
@John Quinn
There should be no slash mark between communism and socialism.
They are not interchangeable.
2
@Berman — Good luck getting anyone to understand that.
1
There is much for us to learn here. Standing up for freedom is never easy.
6
You know, the ultimate solution is probably "One Hong Kong, Two Systems".
@Greg Liew: That is certainly thinking outside the box. How about "one taiwan, three systems"? I can't see what could go wrong with that suggestion ;-)
1
I wish Americans could muster a fraction of the passion for liberty, justice, and democracy shown by millions of Hong Kongers. Both our systems face fundamental threats. We slouch at home, alone, upvoting diatribes we like; they fill the streets and have the world's attention. I like their chances; at least they won't go quietly. We might.
418
@TomF
Yes, but do give credit to the Parkland kids.
34
@TomF wrote: "I wish Americans could muster a fraction of the passion for liberty, justice, and democracy shown by millions of Hong Kongers."
One way we Americans express ourselves is by writing our Senators and Congressmen. I do so regularly.
Not certain what bugs you, since you just describe your own state of malaise, but America looks great every time I step outside.
8
@TomF
Americans have a government by the people, etc...
The people of Hong Kong, deprived of self-determination via the ballot, are turning to the only recourse they have.
17
Regimes and governments fall all the time. China can crack down all it wants, but if the people have had enough, and new leadership rises, Communist China will fall.
10
@Tom Baroli
The problem is, there is no leadership from the very beginning of the protests, and I won't be surprised if the once peaceful protests quickly develop into a hot mess of mobs. Actually it seems like exactly what is happening now:
https://twitter.com/jgriffiths/status/1161252153245216773?s=20
3
Beijing surely has the ability to manipulate public opinion in Hong Kong through provocateurs and disinformation specialists on the Web. It is possible that the Communist Party wants to escalate the crisis as a pretext for taking over Hong Kong without incurring the wrath of other nations. That's the tragedy of the anonymous Web as a source of news as opposed to established news media. It even makes one wonder about the comments here. Including this one, I guess.
6
These people don't realize what they are fighting for. The housing problem is the evil of all problems. How can an average person afford to pay for a USD500k 300ft apartment in Hong Kong? Hongkongers are fighting for their livelihoods. They got it mixed up and thought that they are fighting for a noble cause of democracy.
I wonder what the US government would have done if JFK was shut down during the occupied movement.
10
I understand that at a recent meeting of the Chinese State Council to discuss Hong Kong, Chairman Xi pounded the table so hard that champagne got spilled into the caviar, causing some of the members' mistresses to complain.
The ungrateful people of Hong Kong have no right to demand freedom and the rule of law. It will only give the mainland Chinese crazy ideas, such as the natural rights of the individual. And where would that lead? The mainland people would stop serving the whims of Chairman Xi and his fat, wealthy thugs and might instead selfishly pursue their own interests, such as liberty, justice, and the right of self-determination.
20
@NorthernVirginia
Tommy: I'm picking up your sarcasm.
Richard: Good, because I'm laying it on pretty thick.\
- Line from "Tommy Boy"
2
Someone here showed me a relayed video of Chinese troop transports lined up in Shenzhen, apparently on an an approach towards Hong Kong.... Let's hope peace and democratic compromise and everyone's well-being prevails....
6
@Daniel I. Leibovitz
Beijing will step in. It is just when.
They cannot allow this chaos as it is a loss of face.
God help these people when they do because no one else can.
In a few weeks after the protesters are gone, like everything else people will forget as people in the end move on.
This is just news today and people are commenting, but todays news is in tomorrows trash.
There will be no consequences to Beijing as business comes first.
Always follow the money.
140
@Daniel I. Leibovitz
Trump just called the protest in "HK" riots. He gave the Chinese the go ahead in two ways. He held back on some tariffs until December (covering his Christmas sales) and sided with Xi on the protestors.
By tomorrow the PLA will be in the city.
1
@annoyed
First and foremost, Hong Kong is China's Hong Kong ... if the HK police are overwhelmed, they will do what they have to do.
The entire 'protest movement' stinks of CIA/NED organization and financing.
Immediately after the extradition law was suspended, the protests became violent -- out of the blue, thousands of 'protesters' (rioters) were wearing expensive sophisticated gas masks and tens of thousands professionally printed signs suddenly appeared -- who paid?
3
This is NOT a protest! This is a sheer intended disruption of civil life. Airport , especially a major international transportation hug IS NOT a right place to hold massive protest. You need to go to governments to protest.
By blocking the airport and holding millions of passengers stranded at the the airports, you are breaking freedom of other millions of peoples only for trying to protecting freedom of Hongkong population of 7 millions.
22
This is a defining moment for The People’s Republic of China. The Chinese government will either show the world that Hong Kong is truly independent, or the Chinese government will show the rest of the world that Hong Kong is nothing. China is showing itself to be the repressive, controlling, dictatorship that it has always been. . . All of the Chinese history and success. . .gun powder, Confucius? . .The modern day Chinese leaders still haven’t figured it out. . . Here’s the lesson for Xi or whatever his name is. . .You can’t make people do anything they don’t want to do. The people in Hong Kong don’t want to be under the repressive Chinese government control. Get that through your head. People are ready to die for this cause. And the world is watching.
5
@Ray China is China, everyone has known it, what they are, and have always been. The world aged to do business with it because it is financially advantageous.
It must be remembered, though the west has a short memory. Hong Kong was taken by force in reparation for the opium that was being supplied to the Chinese people by the British, mainly Scottish merchants that was burned by China in an attempt to stop the trade.
HK was then by force from china, and China has taken it back and will, like Britain had used force to keep its possessions.
Britain had the worlds largest empire. How do you think it got it, certainly not with the approval of its native population. It is gone because people wanted their country back.
People say there was an agreement and china should honor it. Well why, why should someone have to make an agreement for something that was taken from them in the first place.
1
The "People's" Republic of China needs to recall Carrie Lan, or she needs to resign. That's the only way this ends without another Tienanmen massacre.
1
This is a lesson for American families who are tired of being exploited by NY bankers. It’s coming.....
7
@Ted I’ve been watching this everyday. This is RESISTANCE! I am awed by these kids. We should be taking notes, because it IS coming our way.
9
There’s a TEDTalk by Seattle billionaire, Nick Hanover(sp?) that speaks to what will happen if income inequality is not addressed and fair wages are paid!
To be honest, there was no need to cancel every flight. These Hong Kong protesters are peaceful. They will be understanding if you need to pass through and make it to the next flight. They are only there to inform people on what is going on in their country and their cry for democracy. Cancelling all the flights seems like a ploy of the government to make the public lose trust in the protesters. As once the world is not watching anymore, China can do anything.
7
Did you actually read the NY article before your commenting? It was explicitly written in the article that the entrance hall is blocked by protesters. When travelers try to push through the barricades because their flights are not cancelled yet, they are pushed back by protesters. Just to clarify.
9
Americans should watch and learn. The Hong Kong protests show what well-organized, concerned citizens can do.
15
HK doesn’t have military. Most of their water, food, electricity comes from mainland. If CCP becomes angry, they can do more things.
@Sarah wrote: "If CCP becomes angry, they can do more things."
If the people of Hong Kong arm themselves, they too can do more things.
@NorthernVirginia Arm themselves, how, please tell me. Except for the US countries have disarmed their citizens for this very reason, so people cannot fight back when oppressed.
That is one of the very reasons the founding fathers passed the 2nd amendment.
1
If there was one company in Hong Kong that could have finessed a public position of support for both the "rule of law" and the moral authority of the protestors, whose position is widely supported by Hong Kong at large, it could have been Swire & Sons. Shame on them.
2
@Msd: the protestors have no moral authority. From the beginning the protests have degenerated into unlawful disruption, damage to property and resistance to lawful efforts by the police to restore order. If this was happening in the US, some protesters would have died by now and those who broke into and urinated in the Legislature would be dead or in prison. The people of Hong Kong are fed up and want the protesters to stop and go home.
3
These events remind me of the Arab Spring. The liberal media cheering on the 'voice of the people' demanding democracy. The sad fact is that the perhaps initially noble protest are disintegrating into a lawless mob of ever growing demands that have no coherence. In the long run these protests will leave Hon Kong worse off and the liberal media will turn its attention to the next shiny object.
10
Thrilling, but terrifying to think how China may respond. Still, a wonderful reminder that the people can rise up and fight against tyranny. I wish you all the best, people of Hong Kong.
6
Take it from an old China hand who was teaching at university in Beijing in 1989 and spent time with his students down at Tiananmen in the weeks leading up to June 4.
This will not end well for Hong Kong. Period.
13
Yes, but we will see.
Our hearts are with the protesters; this is not an easy path.
9
The protesters have found a most effective way of creating the kind of disruption that hits at the heart of Hong Kong’s oligarchs, their pocketbooks. I’d recommend that the protesters consider boycotting the products and services of the hand full of tycoons who effectively have a monopoly on all aspects of Hong Kong life (with Beijing’s blessing and support). That would be far more effective.
11
Hong Kong citizens taking direct mass action should be an inspiration to Americans tired of corporate totalitarianism masquerading as democracy in the good ole USA.
28
Yea, please encourage your fellow Americans to protest and block public transportation everyday and let’s see the actual turnouts and if this method really works.
4
@Jenny When our institutions fail us, it's good to send a message. Democracy can be inconvenient though, I'll grant you that.
1
All I think when I read about or watch those people in Hong Kong in the streets shouting out their rage is, why aren't Americans doing the same thing?
26
@Michael Because there are two opposing views in America. If one goes to the streets, the other follows. And you don't want that.
2
@Michael
Americans have, even if a little flawed, government of, by, and for, the people.
The people of Hong Kong, denied the power of the ballot, are turning to the only power they have left.
4
@Michael Why, because we have open and honest elections.
Until know Americans have always accepted the results of the ballot box.
Now we have people, both civilian and elected that only want to accept the results the they like.
Take Brexit in UK as an example. The people voted and their elected officials are doing everything passive to void the voted will of the people.
2
If a group like Occupy Wall Street closed down JFK for a couple of days, what would be the response of the government?
16
If Donald Trump were not locked into ever-escalating moves against China, there might be some room for United States and European diplomats to defuse the situation and defend at least a compromise, particularly with their economic stakes in the island. Instead, the Hong Kong protesters are locked into a no-win situation. The extradition law now is suspended. Protesters fear its revival because then it will be used to extradite a number of them for trial in China. Police are busy using surveillance equipment of all types to identify as many as possible for this eventual outcome. How long can anarchy continue? Five or six months? The enthusiasm of youth has its breaking point, as does the patience of older residents, including parents fearful for the children as violence escalates. There is no need for Chinese military intervention for Trump to lay yet another hostile claim against China. Watch and wait is the policy. Then move "legally" against the more egregious youthful offenders, passing a modified extradition agreement to put them at the mercy of mainland justice.
1
These people and the people of PR should be a model for us all.
12
@Thomas Renner: This reveals your complete ignorance of the situation - this is HK, not PR? Remember - one country, TWO systems. Our system is essentially the colonial system, which is closer to the UK, than to the Communist system. We already have democratic representation in the legislature, free speech and the rule of Law. These protesters are out of order and are losing support among the population. How would you feel if protesters broke into Congress and caused $4million damage, including urinating there? What kind of a model is that?
3
Just wait till the US debt bubble bursts.
5
It appears that the Chinese despots in Beijing have encountered more than they bargained for when they decided to usurp human rights and liberties in Hong Kong. People who have lived in freedom and democracy do not take kindly to totalitarianism.
20
American citizens once protested like this 50+ years ago. Sustained protests I mean.
When Cheney/Bush/Rumsfeld invented the Iraq war there were protests but those fizzled out and that's what U.S. politicians bank on. Just like Occupy Wall Street. Just fizzled out.
Trump shows unequivocally that Americans just don't care to make the effort beyond a mouse click and an angry emoji. Where is the outrage?
The fact that next years POTUS election is considered close is mind boggling.
27
@Hal: No Hal. These are not equivalent. I was there marching in SF against the Iraq war. At the end we all went home. Here in Hong Kong a group continued beyond the end of the legal protest and tried to force their way into the legislature and clashed with police. Later they broke in and caused $4million damage. Not equivalent.
2
These young folks are to be applauded, but they should be wary. You can be sure there are many communist party plants among them, watching, listening, recording.
If this does not end as the protesters hope for, the repercussions down the road will be significant.
But of course, that is the point of the protest, isn't it?
3
I’ve been to Hong Kong many times. I think I have a solution for those stranded who really want/need to get out. Go to the Chinese embassy and get a visa to mainland China. This used to happen the same day. Go to Shenzhen or Guangzhou and catch a flight out there.
2
HK government restrains the police not to use physical force to contain the mob. Wait till the summer is over and all the youngsters have to go back to schools, then HK government will take care of the real criminals behind the protests. In the meantime, the violent and disruptive actions caused HK business a great deal of headache. It will take years to recover. Normal people also got fed up with the protesters. Sooner or later, government will retake control and punish the unlawful and ungrateful protesters. Law and order will return to HK.
2
This will not end well for Hong Kong. It is sad to see a vibrant city shrivel at the hands of heavy-handed Communists.
The Chinese have no option but to step up and use whatever extreme means are necessary, to squash this. Ultimately, you stand where you sit.
Should we give protestors green cards? They are clearly entrepreneurial, energetic, and brave.
9
clash of the Titans. Where West meets East. Somehow HK and China are gonna have to find some type of hybridized rule of law/ government. If not we'll be in for a very turbulent near future. Global warming, population growth, economic inequality all meld in the melting pot called earth. The 3rd planet of our solar system has created a life form that is destroying self. Maybe our extinction will save earth from its extinction.
The bravery of these protestors is moving and humbling. They are fighting the good fight.
20
I really have no sympathy for these foreigners who are upset they cannot cross the gate. With everything going on right now why in the world would you have booked a ticket going through Hong Kong?
There is a sense of entitlement among westerners that their immediate needs are greater than the long term needs of the people protesting. I also see this in Europe when Americans’ vacations are interrupted by labor protests and demonstrations. I suppose we just don’t understand the power of organized demonstration...
6
@S Could it possibly occur to you that they were already there and now want to leave?
5
The truth is, China has been outperforming HK for decades now, and HK is mad about it. Same is true for the United States. Everyone needs to go home, accept China for what it is (an incredible success) and get to work.
7
Paramilitary troops are gathering near the border. If there is bloodshed will be the first time China has openly attacked a western society. It’s a pseudo-east/west war only because of the political union. But make no mistake, if they attack they are attacking the free world.
6
A few thoughts. Earlier reporting indicates Red China has reduced its indoctrination program for Uighurs. If true, likely in preparation for a very large number of Hongkongers. And if the airport scuffles don't stop (quickly), look for Beijing to shut it down. Nobody will be getting out on a dual passport. Examples will be made. The end of this engagement will occur very soon. People should avoid travel to Hong Kong, and using their airport as a transfer point.
2
The second day of the protests at Hong Kong International Airport put a warning signal for the both sides. Protesters don't fear to enter into the Inferno for their goals. Authorities have to act carefully to avoid to enter to the Inferno.
1
I wish we had moral leadership in Washington in the White House to stand up for people fighting for the values and freedoms that we Americans cherish. I wish Trump would care more about human rights violations in countries we deal with than trade deficits.
I wish Xi would come to realize that democracy is a strength, and that Hong Kong's special status could be a model for a brighter future for all of China. The passion that the people of Hong Kong evince far outweighs the meek subservience Xi is able to command.
20
It would be great to have key HK reporter who knows why this is truly happening, write a long piece about that for Sunday? Surely the law and the executive targeted in these protests is not in any way the only reason for this protest. How involved are England, the EU, and Americans gov or not? We are getting half-truth from the newspaper i love the most!
14
@Jeff Koopersmith I agree! U.S. reporting lacks interviews with protestors.
2
Good idea. But the outlines are there to see. The country is controlled by the last powerful Communist Party left. It will not give up power in favor of a liberal democracy. It tolerated select liberal activities to promote economic prosperity but not enough to produce a liberal economic system. There is no independent judiciary because the law limits their power. It permits some liberal political activity in Hong Kong to keep them from rebelling but they control police and use their control of key parts of the economy to exert social and political pressure. It’s designed to allow people to feel free until the bump into their invisible barriers. The intent is to make people act as the Party wants.
If you were used to the system under the British, this kind of arrangement feels like an insult. For all their scheming and sophisticated manipulative ways, the Party has no grasp of the human spirit.
4
@Jeff Koopersmith NPR has had a few interviews with protesters.
These travelers who are mad, sorry, wherever you are going might be personally important but the future of a city of millions is far far more important. If you care about the protests so much, like you say, negotiate with the protesters to let flight operations out at a trickle. And if you can’t do that, then you’ll have to stick it out.
You have my sympathies, travelers, but your itinerary is a distant second. People are being shot at. Tear gassed, arrested and soon possibly worse. Take a seat.
460
@D Collazo
This situation is dire for these protesters. It will likely not end good. Chinese government is not a government you can negotiate with. It is like Tiananman Square but of a much larger scope. Hong Kong is an Economic hub for Asia and carries world travelers in and out - many non Chinese families from abroad that live in Hong Kong travel in and out of this airport. I fear for the lives of these people - the question is will China destroy a major airport that is a hub for East West travel just to put down a peaceful protest? The world is watching.
27
@D Collazo I really don't see this ending well for the protesters; they have my sympathies, but shutting down Hong Kong airport is an action that is impossible for the government in Beijing to ignore. For travelers in Hong Kong needing to get out quick, the option would be to take a ferry to the mainland (if they have a Chinese visa) and fly out from there.
3
@D Collazo
It's just funny to think that people who ignore basic benefits of ordinary people, travellers in this case, will really carry on a grand project like democracy for the whole society. Imagine someone who vows to fight famine in Africa but doesn't bother to care if a homeless child is starving in the neighborhood.
23
Take note Americans. This is how you rise against a government to make your voice heard and force change.
27
protests in Hong Kong, in Russia. the right wing on the ascendant in much of the West. globally, mass dissatisfaction with our social world and our political response to modern challenges. growing enthusiasms for escape fantasies like colonizing Mars and The Rapture. may you live in interesting times.
1
Remember the government response to protests in Ferguson, Missouri? China's response will probably be like that.
2
It's almost laughable protestors are claiming they are fighting for democracy, something they never had even at the first place under the British rule. They asked the British to take them back but got denied. Sad. On the other hand, disappointing most of the major Western media even NY times failed to report the root cause of the riot in HK. The problem of HK today is not political, it's a social problem period. 1. HK has been losing its glory because China's economy has been exploding in the last 10-15 years. HK is losing its economic advantage to mainland cities such as Shanghai, Beijing etc and they are afraid they are going to lose more, low tax, free port and easy environment to do business, when they truly become a mainland city. 2. Most HK people had identity issue to admit they are Chinese. Of course, CCP had such a bad human rights record and being an authoritarian regime doesn't help the situation.
17
@LMH
Thanks for the history lesson but what’s your point? The UK turnover to a brutal regime was a disaster for the freedoms of the people of Hong Kolng. It would be akin to our chief executive officially turning America over to his sovereign ruler, Russia.
7
We currently have a brutal regime.
3
Frustrating to have to plow through two-thirds of this article before the protesters demands and focus on Cathay airlines are explained.
8
@D Gayle I agree. Reporting lacks information about what's motivating the protest and does nothing to explain the demands. Where are the interviews with protestors?
2
This is going to be put down with all the gentleness of Tiananmen Square. History won't just rhyme this time, it will repeat!
4
@Dino wrote: "History won't just rhyme this time, it will repeat!"
Perhaps it will repeat, but not in the way you suppose. The Slovenians prepared for months before declaring their independence from Yugoslavia. The Yugoslav tanks rolled in, and the tanks blew up. A brief ten-day war of independence. That is what armed, prepared people can do against an oppressive government and its military.
1
These protesters have more guts and bravery than we do here in America. I include myself in that criticism.
63
Yesterday, the Chinese news agency, Peoples Daily, posted a video of numerous armored personnel carriers and military trucks assembling outside Shenzhen, across from Hong Kong. The parallels to Tiananmen Square - protest, rhetoric, escalation, etc. - are frighteningly similar. Now would be a good time for leaders across the global community to press for peaceful deescalation while making clear that Tiananmen 2.0 would lead to sharp rebuke and global economic penalties.
10
I expect if the airport continues to be closed for 4 or 5 days that PLA and police will be invited to enter Hong Kong to restore peace, but then those protesters will be clamoring to get the airport open so they can be on the first flights out of Hong Kong on their dual passports. Imagine a protest lasting months and there were more casualties on police than demonstrators, imagine Amadou Diallo got shoot with 41 bullets when he reached for his wallet. Those claiming police brutality of Hong Kong police are more than hypocrites. It's costless for those internet trolls claiming the high ground of democracy. I wonder how their local police would react to laser pointers on their eyes and gasoline bombs throw at them.
4
Imagine if Americans collectively demonstrated this level of concern about our democracy. Donald Trump would have been out of office long ago.
14
Supportive of the people of Hong Kong. Envious of their youth, resolve, energy and integrity. It is a brilliant message to authoritarian leaders in 2019 all over the world. Listen well to their voices Mr. Trump. It is probable they will lose their quest, but they will not be what you so often label “losers”. In the end of the parables of time, it is always the tyrants who lose. Arrogance and armies only provide a path for so long. Sooner hopefully rather than later, your path will end. The people of Hong Kong deserve a democratic leader of the world who is supportive to their plight.
11
China is going to squash the Hong Kong rebellion with violent force. China cannot afford to look weak. It’s going to get very ugly before it’s all over and in the end, Hong Kong residents will not achieve their demands. I’m sort of shocked that Britain has not said more or supported the protesters considering it used to be a British colony. It’s sad that western democracies like the US and U.K. do not step up and support Hong Kong. China must be challenged and kept in check. Otherwise before long, we’ll all be studying Jingping thought.
1
Protests in Hong Kong, protests in Moscow, protests anywhere DJT sets foot outside a planned MAGA rally. Protests in front of McConnell's house.
The list goes on.
True democracy was born of dissent.
No wonder Vlad ordered Google not to show the demonstrations on YouTube (good luck with that); no wonder China has limited citizen's internet access; no wonder Trump claims that those social media platforms which are used by citizens to expose his endless lies are part of the deep state (what a joke).
The 'world wide web' has indeed connected us. And the spirit and will of common people to shake off the yoke of despots will never be defeated.
9
The protestors believe they are defending the future of HK. But anybody whose judgement is not clouded by their emotions and ideologies will see how things will unfold and what it entails for HK. Given the current Chinese leadership, China will not back down and appease the protestors. Failing to recognise this, whatever the reason, dooms HK as protestors resort to more and more violent means. HK’s reputation will be ruined, business will retreat, HK will be cut off from mainland China as mainland Chinese boycott HK. Then what comparative advantage does HK have left for its economy. HK’s importance to China has been significantly diminished. So Chinese Govt can afford to wait to see how things play out as HK rips itself apart. In the end, nothing will be achieved except the destruction of HK.
HK can achieve autonomy only if China grants it, and this cannot be achieved by force, only by persuasion. They need to gain the sympathy of the Chinese public, not to scorn mainlanders and be despised in return. They need to reassure the Chinese Govt that granting HK autonomy will not allow HK to become an anti-China base. As long as they only insist on their own freedom without any regard for China’s concerns, China will not compromise either. China can afford this, HK cannot.
13
@Leto: Actually, we already have a large amount of autonomy. But you are right - if people want changes, they need to persuade not threaten, which is what these protesters are doing (and are thereby losing the support of the population). Once Carrie Lam killed the extradition amendment, I suspect that a majority wanted the protests to stop.
she didn’t kill the legislation.
@Geoffrey: That is exactly what she said, and what she did. Do you see it there now? Has it been passed?
What you are probably referring to is the fact that she did not use the legal term "withdraw". To be frank, this is a difference without a real distinction. What is "withdrawn" can be "reintroduced". So the issue is, will you leave her and the government a little face? If she starts taking action, you can come out on the streets again. But step down. Please. Then come back to talk, which is what Carrie offered a long time ago.
Democracy does have its merits. We have it much better here in Hong Kong than the average American citizen. Hong Kong citizens have free universal health care, state pension, a free education system etc. Our top universities cost next to nothing. We don't worry about being shot by cops at traffic stops, or our kids being hunted like animals when they go to school. While the protesters claim police brutality, it is really nothing compared to what we see in the US or France. Yet, they are waving the US flag and want Hong Kong to be more like the US, because the US is "democratic".
The "democrats" in Hong Kong rejected the government's plan for general elections in 2014 because they derided it as a "small circle" election. Ironically, the system was based on the US electoral college, but since the largest political party is pro-Beijing, they see this as a sell out. They believe the US system is a true representative democracy, not realising that both Bush Jr. and Trump lost the popular vote and still won the electoral college, something they wanted to make sure would not happen in HK.
At the end of the day, the US is much better at selling its "democratic" system. People don't come out to protest with anywhere near the same passion for gun control, affordable healthcare, special interest corruption and all the other problems that would totally horrify Hong Kong residents. And they say the communists are so good at brainwashing. Obviously, they have much to learn.
13
@Adrian, HK also has the least affordable real estate on the planet, hellish coffin apartments, the greatest wealth inequality on the planet, extreme air pollution, congestion, and crowding, and a rapidly weakening democracy.
6
@Adrian
Absolutely agree. Will the young people rescue us and vote in 2020?
@Adrian I was in Shanghai, Xi'ian and Beijing during the 1989 protests, during and after Tiananmen Square and I can tell you that you are mistaken.
Yes, the US has all the problems you mention over the past 40 years beginning with Reagan and the Republicans, but we can and will fix them. We have done so in the past. 2020 election will roll back the Republican insanity because that is the will of the majority.
Hong Kongers are right to protest and not give up. If they do fall to the dictatorship, that will be the end and there is no hope.
That's the difference between China and the US.
2
There’s an airport in every major city on the US. The major cities in the US skew leftward in their political leanings. Perhaps the US should take its grievances with the Trump administration to the airports and start disrupting for change.
9
"Minor inconvenience" means it happened to somebody else. I wonder how many armchair sympathizers would change their tune if they were trapped in an airport or country and couldn't get home for days, and hit with hundreds or thousands of dollars of extra expenses.
5
I was probably in high school when I heard on the news that Hong Kong would return to Chinese control. My parents said it was in the name of trade. I didn't know that much about Hong Kong or China, other than that China was a dictatorship, and often a brutal and repressive one, and that Hong Kong was not. It seemed to me Hong Kong was being sold out and that at some point its citizens would have something to say about that. Looks like that's happening now.
23
@Karen Hong Kong was returned to China under the terms of a treaty with Britain that was signed many, many years ago. Under the terms of the treaty, the British agreed to return Hong Kong the Chinese control in 1997.
8
@LMH HK was one of the less practical Western negotiations, like Reagan withdrawing Marines from Beirut.
@Karen Their citizens got rich off making that agreement. Follow the money, this has nothing to do with dictatorship.
The protests began with the intention of protecting self rule but have evolved into a breakdown of law and order. The Chinese military will be forced to protect lives and property by restoring order.
Likely, many of the protesters are agitators planted by the Chinese military to turn the demonstration into outright rebellion.
Hong Kong, in its heyday as the economic front door of China, was a coddled British colony, not a democracy. Democracy, such as it is, was granted Hong Kong by China, not conferred by tradition or Britain.
6
@AynRant China makes no habit of conferring Democracy to people. The Chinese military has a dismal record of protecting lives, and the only property it concerns itself with is the property belonging to the Standing Committee. Sometimes a rebellion is not a plot created by outside agitators, but it is an honest expression of doubt in the governance of a people. Democracy, such as it is, does not seem to be something you value.
17
Can you explain why you describe Hong Kong as coddled? It is true that as a colony, Britain exploited its geographical location and poor citizens for cheap labor, but hard work was put in by the Hong Kong people to make it a functional colony prior to handover.
7
@KBV Actually, the coddled colony became more prosperous than Britain! Low taxes, law and order maintained with a light, nearly invisible, hand!
Such brave people. What role models. Standing up for dearly held beliefs of liberty and freedom. Standing together in such large numbers. If only we in the US had such courage and passion. If only we acted more and talked less. If only we cared as much as they do~
51
@LadyLawyer: How brave is it to advance as a mob, throw missiles at police and get paid for doing it (as at least some of them are)? And what about the fact that they have completely misunderstood the situation and are risking the very real freedoms that we have (freedom of speech, of travel, of business and the rule of law) for some demands that really mean nothing. You don't know, because you are not here.
No, I wish you something much better than this. If only you cared as much for Hong Kong instead of projecting your own fantasies of "protest". Better still - get out there and vote out Trump. He is doing much worse than the HK Government and Police, who are actually basically the government and systems that the British left. Do you really think that US police would not have killed someone by now?
In both China and Russia, the protestants’ goals may require visible leaders sooner than later. The U.S. has it in the form of 20 candidates competing for one leadership candidacy. That’s far from perfect, but a deeper start.
6
The protesters have a right and even a strong principle to support their actions, including their actions at the airport.
Of course, it’s natural for travelers inconvenienced to feel some “conflicting impulses.”
However, despite some inconvenience they experience, travelers should try to understand and respect the protesters’ reasons and actions.
10
@Saroyan
Unless, of course, if you are the said traveller.
1
Humbling to see people put their lives on the line for principles we take for granted. I wish them well, but I fear for them. Is there anything an ordinary American can do to show support?
35
Hong Kong shutting down one of the worlds busiest airports. Now that’s imposing tariffs!
15
A substantial CCP military presence sent to the south could expose Shanghai and Beijing. The protesters are taking a reasonably well calculated risk. They know of the other military forces on the island nations surrounding Eastern Asia, some eager to reassert their territories.
4
Xi Jinping has a serious decision coming-up quickly.
Having promised that he will not act like an Emperor — like Emperor Trump — Xi promised his people that he is implementing “socialism with Chinese characteristics”.
Now, he has to decide whether the party will be “the people’s party” or “the billionaires party” of China — which is essentially the same choice that Bernie Sanders and this newly forming ‘democracy party ‘ for the 2020 election (or the people’s peaceful “Political/economic & social Revolution Against Empire”) has already made by firing a; loud, public, sustained, ‘in the streets’, but totally Non-violent “SHOUT (not shot) heard round the world”!
The importance of Xi Jinping’s decision, the Chinese people’s decision in Hong Kong, and the American people’s decision to choose some real form of functional ‘social democracy’ or ‘socialist democracy’ against and over EMPIRE is clearly going to be the most important decision that humanity is going to make in this now globalized world, and will answer the big question that the Chinese people have wrestled with over two millennia, and which the American people have been trying to implement over only two centuries — whether we ‘citizens of the world’ want to fight for Global Empire, or cooperate for global democracy.
9
Simple solution, no tanks needed:
1. China should give in to the protestors demand and fire Carrie Lam, since she failed to maintain law and order in HK.
2. Stop free hi speed wifi (reduce it to 10kbps). In the picture, I see the protestors all using their smart phones for selfies, flash crowd meets, and keep up with news.
3. Brown out electricity supply from China. That will stop subway service as the protestors wanted.
If that doesn't work, close the border a few hours a day. That will stop food from China as the protestor wanted.
6
@Chin Wu
Actually, when the police decides to quit because they are sick of the assaults on themselves and their family, the unending confrontation that is taking a toll, the highly biased scrutiny from the opposition politicians, and worst of all the lack of support from the establishment, the protesters would soon learn what value lies in law and order. They would be facing the triads, who would have no compunction in punishing those who cause them to lose business.
These protesters are kids who like to defy "adults", and no doubt feel the elation of insulting and attacking the police, causing chaos and destroying property, something that the could normally only do in their dreams or when playing Grandtheft Auto.
Oddly, I just saw an advertisement for mooncake on TV, when a father reprimanded his son for not looking for work but playing computer games all the time. The son riposted in the most forceful and impolite way, felt remorse (supposedly), then bought a box of mooncake for his old man (no doubt so that his allowance won't be cut). I think the advertiser wants to bring out a subtle message on the state of youths of this generation.
Unfortunately these protesters can’t win. In the end China would rather destroy Hong Kong than lose it. It’s just too bad that these protests aren’t all over the mainland too.
37
@DRS Thirty years ago there were lots of protesters in China. Now China has a vast surveillance state that does not permit such disobedience.
2
Don’t understand the point you tried to make. Isn’t destroying hk same as losing it? More or less, china has lost it already. So are the protesters. They think they are much superior than others especially the mainlanders, except in the society here we think they are chinese which isn’t what they wanna be associated. The only potential winner could be mr. trump as he could put hk up as part of the negotiation
@DRS
Interesting comment. People in the West all believe that the Chinese Communist Party is suppressing dissent, and everyone living in China would rise up and overthrow the government when given a chance. They think the same thing about Russia.
Unfortunately, this is Western propaganda. My father left China during the Japanese invasion, and after the war, there was nothing. Industry and infrastructure was almost completely destroyed. We did not have a Marshall Plan, and this was followed by the civil war which ousted the Nationalists, probably the most corrupt government in the world at that time. This was followed by the disastrous Mao era, which only ended in the late 1970s. Within less than 40 years, China has come so far that America is afraid of being overtaken. Famine is a thing of the past. Do you really think the average Chinese would want to risk all this for something called democracy, which no Chinese has ever experienced ? They would rather stick to what has been working.
3
China may have bitten off more than it can chew. England should offer to take Hong Kong back. That would appease the protesters, solve China’s “Tianamen 2” problem, and give England at least one post-Brexit trading partner.
Don’t hold your breath.
7
@Donalan
The last rioting of the same scale was in 1967, when people were protesting about the corruption of the colonial government. British police officers and colonial officials of the era were retiring back to good ol' Blighty as millionaires. I am quite sure some British officials have long memories.
Keep laughing. How about UK offers to take US back?
2
If only Americans were as dedicated to defending their democracy as the Hong Kong citizen. We are passive and will lose our rights, our freedom our self image.
Hong Kong may be overwhelmed by the Chinese military but they will never lose their self respect. They are to be admired, an example needed to be followed around the world.
845
@Yuri Pelham America is not dedicated to defending Democracy??? If only we can stop being passive about our thoughts of our own country. We live in the greatest country in the world, with all the freedom right at our feet.
15
@Heather
Try and stop voter suppression, or vote-count theft by the gop.
Is that what makes us 'great"?
91
@Heather Greatest country in the world, you say? Sure, the United States endows its citizens with the standard freedoms (at least on paper). But the United States is hardly the greatest country on Earth. Unless the greatest country in the world when it comes to large income inequality, inadequate healthcare coverage and high CO2 emissions.
43
I find it comical the number of foreigners who are passing through Hong Kong and saying they are inconvenienced by this issue so the protestors should cease. Unless I missed something, Carrie Lam has only suspended the extradition treaty with Beijing - not fully withdrawn it. Protestors have spent the last few weeks in the streets, but are increasingly subject to violence from police and "organized counter protestors." Had the government listened to or worked with protestors, this would have ended weeks ago. There has been complete and total disregard for the will of the people, so the protests have slowly escalated. They are disruptive, but they are also peaceful. This is how meaningful change has occurred across the world. This is what protests look like. So I'm sorry you missed your connecting flight, but these people are fighting for their future and hoping to avoid being arbitrarily thrown in jail for political expression.
963
@Sarah the point of protests is to cause disruption and by doing do create conditions under which they are listened to and demands met. Power concedes nothing. You and I only have the right to vote because people before us had the nerve to inconvenience others.
145
@Sarah. Many of the rights you so condescendingly take for granted- as well as the existence of this nation- were only possible through actions like these.
80
@Sarah
It is peaceful and it is brilliant. The world is watching. Will the Chinese government order a military attack on peaceful protesters at a major airport in a modern economic powerhouse city who are demanding China restore and maintain the democracy in Hong Kong? Will they kill their own citizens and destroy their airport - just to squash a peaceful protest about democracy?
36
It's funny how many hypocrites here like to cheer on the Hong Kong separatists, but don't seem to have anything nice to say about the people of Donetsk breaking off from Ukraine.
Something tells me all these foreign cheerleaders have ulterior motives that have nothing to do with freedom.
17
@Sarah The history of Hong Kong has a history that is a bit different to that of Donetsk. The people of Hong Kong were promised "one country, two systems" for at least 50 years. You cannot blame them for being angry when the PRC has been reeling back on those promises.
30
Absolutely correct. The people of Ukraine need support! They were invaded, nothing short of it.
2
@Thomas
The two systems does not mean total autonomy. Total autonomy has never been promised. What it actually says is to keep the status quo for 50 years. That means the legal system, the structure of the civil service, the existing autonomy of the professionals, the education system, etc. Democracy was never mentioned in the joint declaration, although it allows for an elected legislature and chief executive. And the British never gave Hong Kong any democracy before they left, other than a small number of elected seats in the Legislative council, which has been expanded since. The governor had always been appointed by Westminster. I don't know why the Western media keep saying that China has breached its promise. Britain was a democracy but even they never saw the necessity to give Hong Kong an elected leader. Why do you expect China to do so ?
6
Mainland China has broken the agreement made when the crown colony was returned. There were supposed to be increasingly democratic elections and a fully independent judiciary. Not only has this not happened, but this new extradition gambit is a wedge that can take HK semi-autonomy down completely.
The British should step in and sue in the World Court and protest to the UN for breach of contract.
Meanwhile, Americans are doing little to nothing of any real substance about the destruction of our democracy, our social fabric and now our environment. I am so disappointed in my fellow Americans I could scream. And I doubt I will come home.
Bravo, and solidarity, Hong Kong.
45
@Bohemian Sarah
Sarah, IMHO it is the decision of Xi Jinping’s (to implement some level of democratic “socialism with Chinese characteristics) and the Chinese people to make — rather than allowing the former (and continuing IMHO British Empire) from making this decision for the Chinese people (or any other people who are ‘citizens of the world’, and who should not have their future determined by either an overt or disguised Global Empire in potentially more ‘regime-changing wars’).
If the former British Empire can’t, in over three years, make the decision of whether to attempt to MEGA (Make Empire Great Again) by Brexiting with Emperor Trump, or following the arc of history that ‘we the American people’ (and our founders) were smart enough and brave enough to make regarding Empire vs. democracy, then China should make its own people’s decision about following the path to democracy.
1
@Bohemian Sarah It is unwise to hold expectations for a United States of America that acts as a vanguard for democratic values. America is a vast work farm that exists to create returns for the investor class —1% of whom own 50% of all equities. To protect that manner of concentrated wealth requires an apparatus that strikes quickly at the seeds of dissent so they do not grow into something sinister to the state's authority. It requires allegiance to the Rule of Law to the extent that the law respects the rights of monopoly, and it depends on the dampening of pluralism in favor of a more authoritarian capitalism where many voices all sing the same song of capitalism as they toil for the good of the state.
5
@Bohemian Sarah
Where did you get the idea that "There were supposed to be increasingly democratic elections" ? Where can I find this ? It is not in the Sino-British Joint Declaration or the Basic Law. The Basic Law allows for elections for the Legislative Council and eventually the Chief Executive, but the method was not mentioned. I guess you can take this to mean democracy, but don't forget, African Americans and American Chinese had no right to vote until after 1965, yet America was considered a democracy since its founding. So who can argue that one system of elections is democratic and another is not ?
3
How many of you have ever been to Hong Kong or mainland China?
While the protestors may have some legitimate points, the way this has carried on is now hurting the ordinary people of Hong Kong and Hong Kong's society. Some of the commenters here neither understand or care about Hong Kong or its people, and wish nothing but chaos there and even broader in China. I am a Chinese American and love the freedoms we have here, but how has pushing democracy in other countries worked out for Iraq, Libya, Syria, Iraq, just to cite a few recent examples... What is the real motivation of Westerners, to lift the hapless Asians or to flaunt their cultural superiority and government?
Without law and order, and the environment for international trade it brings, Hong Kong's economy will suffer. Hong Kong already pales in comparison to its neighboring Chinese cities in both population and GDP (once 20% of all of china, now only 2%). As this goes on, the elites will leave HK, the protestors will try to leave either because their parents are rich or they can get asylum, and only the ordinary working Hong Kongers will be stuck in a Hong Kong reduced to a second-tier Chinese city.
Democracy will not arrive in Hong Kong or China overnight just because a few thousand people block the airport. Let's hope both sides calm down so this can end peacefully and ordinary people can go back to living and working.
98
@Dean You forget to mention that Hong Kong is sliding backwards away from democracy. I do not think it is strange that the people of Hong Kong demand progress rather than the anti-progress that PRC is now forcing onto them.
45
@Dean
I find it strangely odd that you are commenting on liberty as a chinese american who's family came to the US. These people aren't fighting to gain liberty. They are fighting to keep it. That isn't Iraq, Libya or Syria. This is Hong Kong.
The "law and order" you call to maintain is being changed without representation by the Chinese to suit their goals. The economy that will suffer is their economy. Democracy isn't supposed to arrive in HK. It was supposed to stay there and it isn't.
67
@Dean You got it right, Dean. I'm originally from Hong Kong too and now an American citizen. I often go to Hong Kong on my way in or out of China to see my mother. Fear of communism and a lack of rule of law in the "Western" sense is understandable. But it does not justify choking Hong Kong as a successful global metropolis. Violent protesters only make Hong Kong poor again and court Chinese guns.
8
I wonder how the US authorities would react, if residents of Hawaii were demonstrating en masse demanding their independence back (which is clearly the REAL purpose of the HK protests, to peel HK off China).
10
@waldo Where is your proof of this?
13
I was lucky to spend three days in Hong Kong in early July. On the first Sunday, I was lucky enough to watch a sea of people marching peacefully in the street in Kowloon...a sight to behold. May these protesters be left alone to protest, but I don't see this ending well.
People are asking over and over...why not here? What do we have to lose? Oh wait...OUR country!
I'm in.
24
@Scott Franklin
You seem to believe that 'seeing a sea of people demonstrating' is a good thing? How long before those 'peaceful' marches turn violent? And they're bound to, because marching a few blocks and back, with police and bystanders watching, media filming, like crazy, but without any measurable result is pointless. So, next comes the public nuisance, property destroyed, looting, people's lives endangered, you name it. It never ends well.
3
@waldo
@waldo
The problem is that it began badly, with China rolling back freedoms.
You sound like over there in safe free Canada you could care less if people who want the freedoms you have get to have those freedoms. It sounds like you are telling them to shut up and let themselves be bound and gagged into the authoritarian regime that China is.
I don’t agree. If someone was taking away my freedoms, like the GOP is actually, I would have to protest any way I could.
And if peaceful protest is completely ignored, the choice is to give up freedom because the dictator has shown their intention, or to fight back.
What else do you suggest?
1
@Thinking: Many of the protests have turned violent, including the first two. Police have been amazingly restrained, despite facing aggressive mobs. Can you image a zero death toll in the US despite weeks of pitched battles in the streets? Protesters are setting fire to police stations and are throwing gasoline bombs. They broke into the legislature and did $4million of damage, including graffiti and urinating.
Beijing was not "taking away freedoms". We are not "gagged", and we have rule of law. We are not under an authoritarian regime. Trump is much more "authoritarian" (my God, why do you let that incompetent racist run anything?) Beijing initiated nothing. The panic over the extradition amendment was completely overblown and it did not practically represent any reduction of freedoms, and actually would have brought criminals to justice. Anyway - it has been killed and will not be implemented. So why have the protesters changed their demands?
I strongly suggest the protesters to go home and stop protesting, which is what most of Hong Kong wants. Come back to talk, by all means. Carrie Lam offered that from the start(!!!).
What keeps coming to my mind as I read this article and track to the events in Hong Kong over the past weeks, is that I wish we would do this against the trump administration. Then I wonder, would he just declare Marshall law and it makes things worse, and I also wonder, would our citizenry have the will power to stand up for something bigger than ourselves.
16
@Dan Why would we have to do this while Trump is president? If you don't like him, vote him out next year. There's no need for violent protests.
9
@John
Protesting a violent administration that has separated families and tormented children for months is reasonable and is not violent at all.
Protesting is not violent.
2
My heart goes out to these brave souls risking their lives for an ideal.
32
We stand with the protestors and deeply admire what they are doing. Truth to power is needed more each day, here, there, and everywhere.
Stay strong, stay brave!
33
I admire and respect these protestors who are standing up to protect their democracy. However, the Chinese communist party does not. This will end badly. The question is, will the West do anything?
6
The question is- will the Australians do anything?
The question is- will the Liberians do anything?
The question is- will the Porto Ricans do anything?
We don’t really care, it’s not really our business to mind
4
I work in China and have 20+ local Chinese on my team. They are basically in the dark about what is happening in HK. The Chinese government is spinning it in such a way that mainlanders believe the people of HK have grown violent and are directing their anger at mainland people in HK, leading to violence against mainlanders, and thus travel disruptions to protect the safety of the mainlanders.
I also have staff in HK, and they are protesting for their freedom. Nearly everyone in HK is supportive even if they are not in the streets.
Mainland China absolutely will not allow anything or anyone to question its authority. They will wait for the right time, perhaps even staging a fire bomb or some incident designed to look like it’s from the protesters, and then send in troops. The mainland does not negotiate, they do not respect freedom or democracy, and they must maintain their image of unflappable power.
Since 1997, life in HK has gone down hill. Rampant immigration from the mainland, loss of freedom, outrageous cost of living, etc. HK people are fighting for their life, but the outcome is inevitable unless a major western power steps in.
Unfortunately, the USA no longer fights for freedom and democracy. We fight for money.
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@JL
What you say about mainland China is true for the current US administration: it does not negotiate, does not respect freedom or democracy, and must maintain their image of unflappable power~
14
@JL
We support our country and the HK Police. The truth is HK violence is another way to aid trade war against China.
I kind of like the U.S. when I was watching Grey's anatomy. It makes me believe that love could conquer everything in the world. But now, the U.S. I see is not the one that is supposed to be.
5
@LadyLawyer
You're absolutely right. We need to get rid of BOTH chief executives: the elected one and the other one.
1
Are these continuing protests in Hong Kong Airport the thin edge of the regime change wedge in the PRC? Or just a Tienanmen-style crackdown to come in the history of "one country two systems"?
1
Mr. Trump should prohibit any trade with China. It will help to destroy communist dictatorship and secure democratic future for many countries in Asia
2
Good plan, our farmers will pray for you my friend
3
Unwise to harm many possible supporters at transportation hubs. Channel energy once again at organs of power, not innocent bysyanders
5
We (Americans) could learn from these protesters. Stay focused, hit em where it hurts and hold your ground.
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In the past, in Iran, the CIA was fomenting demonstrations to try and get the citizens to overthrow the government. I certainly hope the U.S. is not involved here, using the people of Hong Kong to try and force the Chinese regime to it's knees so Trump can get a trade deal. I would not put it past Trump to do that. Watch if the Chinese government sends in troops. Trump will side with the Chinese so it does not appear like the U.S. was behind the protests.
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@Walking Man I've no doubt that if Trump is supporting them, at the opportune moment, he will turn on his heel and insert a knife into the backs of the protestors.
10
@Walking Man You give the people of Hong Kong too little credit.
6
@Walking Man It seems rather "ugly American" to come up with conspiracy theories that assume that people in other countries aren't able to think and act on their own behalf.
1
Fascinating. Terrifying. Hugely significant. Historic. China does not want another Tienemen Square...
16
Mrs. Carrie Lam and her SAR government are not the solution to the current crisis in Hong Kong. They are part of the larger problems that have plagued HK since 1997. Without democracy and with a political system designed to favor the powers that be (i.e., the Communist Party in Beijing and its cronies in HKSAR), all parties involved in the turmoil, including the protesters, are simply beating a dead horse. HK people deserve better.
26
Why do people keep forgetting that the whole case started with a Hong Kong man killing his girlfriend in Taiwan and returning to Hong Kong with no punishment? The Fugitive bill was created for justice, for those who deserved punishment to be punished. China would not be able to take a single person without all following conditions met: a) the person’s action breaks both law in China and Hong Kong; b) Hong Kong agrees the person to be sent to China. And no, you’re not going to a China jail for criticizing its government online, which is also explicitly written.
I think people need to chill when it comes to news like this. You can’t simply repeat the words of freedom and democracy just because your perception of China is bad (somebody said in my face: “China has an authoritarian communist government, so the Chinese can’t be up to no good, plus the Chinese people has used too much energy and bullied everybody on the planet”, which is exactly the trump government looks like to me.) We, as a human living on this earth, shall all be supporters of human rights and justice. To me, letting whoever deserves punishment to be punished means justice. The fugitive bill might have its problems, but its benefit of promoting justice and peace outweighs the concerns.
Think about the following carefully before you start another inspirational speech about promoting democracy and freedom: how do YOU define freedom and justice, if you’re saying that’s something the protesters are fighting for?
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@Child Of Democracy What you stated can only be true if and only if china have a healthy legal system. Wrongfully accused, wrongfully imprisoned in thousands. The reporters that reports about melamine milk and fake vaccines are killed. The plaintiff suddenly becomes the defendant and sued by the government if they sue the wrong powerful people. No one trust the system in China. So people are trying to keep their autonomy at least until 2047. The fugitive bill is a welcome mat for the Chinese government to accuse anyone and silence all opposing voices.
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Their talking about the CCP, not Chinese or “China” even when they use the term China.
Because... China only has one party.
Don’t take it personally.
12
@Child Of Democracy The fugitive bill was designed to do things like make it easier for Beijing to snatch Hong Kong publishers and booksellers who had materials that the Communist leadership didn’t like. It will be used to crackdown on anyone leadership wishes to silence. Hong Kong has its own court system—it doesn’t need Beijing to interfere.
32
Hong Kongers know there are some things more important than convenience and a booming stock market.
We must stop buying goods produced in mainland China, as much as possible. Economic power should be leveraged in a way that agrees with our values. Economic power is the only thing that can limit China's bad behavior. It’s the only thing the mainland Chinese understand and appreciate.
26
'Hong Kongers know there are some things more important than convenience and a booming stock market.'
Sure. Like food to eat, clothes to wear, safe streets, schools for the kids. All of which have been interrupted by these protests.
Kids will go to bed hungry tonite, will loose the year at school, parents will worry, and hospitals will run off of medicine.
All in the name of Democracy.
Sorry but anarchy is not the way to go. It will result in some fire breathing right wing leader extolling the glories of what was lost, and people will listen and follow him. it always does.
10
@AutumnLeaf wrote: "Sorry but anarchy is not the way to go."
Democracy only looks like anarchy to totalitarians.
6
@NorthernVirginia: Possibly, but I am not a totalitarian and I can see that there is anarchy here. in any case, we already have representative government, and no government is truly "democratic" (with the exception of some Swiss Cantons, apparently). Trump did not win the popular vote, the Republican States are Gerrymandered and Boris Johnson was elected by 92,000 votes by rich white males.
1
How wonderful to see young people willing to resist tyranny in favor of democracy. Thank you for reminding us of the spirit of our own founders. I applaud them, and I hope this is the crack the undermines the "foundation" of 1 party rule in China.
98
The people of Hong Kong care deeply about their freedom and are willing to put their lives on line to protect it. Americans could learn a thing or two from these protestors. I fear Americans will continue to simply allow our dangerously authoritarian so-called President and the terrorists known as Republicans to further to erode our democracy and rights without push back. We take our freedom and democracy for granted and seem too timid to fight for them. I wish we were seeing Americans in the streets and occupying our airports fighting for our freedoms and rights like the brave people of Hong Kong are doing. Alas, we seem not to care. If we were seeing protests here of the sort we are seeing in a Hong Kong, the Dangerous one, King Donald I, blessed be He, would not last very long.
21
Exactly. In theory the American people can rescue their decaying democracy as you have suggested.
But in practice they won’t. Hyper individualism known as narcissism is dominant and has prevented us from uniting as a people. This is a tragic loss. And there is no entity to take our place.
Hong Kong is ethically and morally and economically qualified to lead the world... except of course no military. We have the military but our government is solely corrupt and this of course will inevitably lead to our downfall.
I can see on the ground, kids as young as 13 participated in the protests and got arrested. There are no leaders in this movement. It's all driven by social media and by consensus. The pace of intervention in Hong Kong's autonomy by CCP has risen dramatically in the past few years limiting our freedom to choice pro-democratic law markers and freedom of publications. A 13 year old kid today will be 41 in 2047, which will be in the prime time of his life. Young HKers are fighting for their future, free from an authoritarian regime and most importantly free from fear. So please excuse this inconvenience.
677
@Chan I wish you all good luck. You are showing incredible courage and perseverance. Although the international community will let you down you and your actions will never be forgotten and will serve as an example to those who are struggling for human rights & democracy.
67
@Jenny It's funny how you speak of millennial protesters as if they were ignorant and naive; perhaps they deserve more credit than you are willing to give. They understand, precisely through experience and history, that if they do not act now, their fundamental ability for self-determination will erode away.
You speak of stability and safety, yet don't see that for the people of Hong Kong, these very things are being threatened. How can anyone have stability and safety when they can't control how they live their lives? What they fear above all is exactly that if they do nothing now, they will grow to eventually regret it.
280
@Jenny - if you think people are safe in mainland China you have not been reading this newspaper recently. China is not only limiting people's ability to use the internet and social media, they are using facial recognition to keep track of people they deem undesirable. Let's also look at the people under "house arrest" in China, artists, writers, Nobel Laureates. There is no safety for the population in mainland China. Hence the demonstrations.
27
The people of Hong Kong have been frustrated with all their protests have gone to deaf ears. Over the past two and a half months the Hong Kong administration has no intention to hear what the protesters have to say.
Chief Executive Carrie Lam is only a poppet of the Beijing administration and she just cannot make her own move and leaves all the difficult decisions to police with no supervision.
Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau and Australian Prime Minister Scott Morrison raised their concerns. But their voice also went to dear years.
United Nations’ human rights chief's voice probably will have the same results.
The authoritarian administration is not working for the people. It emphasizes on control and follow the order. It has never empower people to the benefit of societies.
The world order is teetering out of norm. Bullies are in charge. The most noticeable are US president Donald Trump and Chinese president Xi Jinping.
Average people like myself, if cannot do anything, at lease let's provide moral support to the people of Hong Kong.
93
@Yu-Tai Chia: Yes, please provide moral support. Most of us want these protests to end. Will you support us? Oh... and we do not have an authoritarian administration. They even killed the bill that the protests were about, even though it was not an erosion of liberties, but an attempt to increase justice... never mind... Important point - people would not have been subject to arbitration extradition at the request of Beijing...
1
We all yearn to be free. The protesters have my full support. I pray they will remain safe and free.
21
This is not good. China can send in their troops, but the inherent weakness and moral bankruptcy of the Communist regime will be exposed. China is divided into two systems—its economic system which is capitalist and its governing structure which is Communist. During the Mao period the party apparatus was in full control over a unitary system which ran as a command economy. Now the government no longer operates the economy but merely imposes its doctrinaire beliefs on it to the detriment of its own political and economic well being. To the world China may seem like a monolith but it’s breaking points are all too visible in places like Tibet and now Hong Kong. The reality which is becoming too obvious to ignore is that the old Maoist system which was held together by the strength of a single dictator is gone. It is now run by committee. Xi is more of a figure head who unlike Mao must deal with the entrenched bureaucracy which calls the shots, but they are becoming more of a hindrance than a help. The fiction cannot last. Hong Kong exposes the problem.The structural weakness of the system will collapse, and it will happen quickly.
31
And why is this not good?
10
@Kevin because it's 1.4 billion people's lifes being hugely interrupted, and it won't be just inconvenient. Do your homework.
Time of reckoning and an uncertain future. History in the making. When Hong Kong was returned to China towards the end of last century, I wondered whether Hong Kong will change China while others thought China will change Hong Kong.
My sources tell me that China will not send the people's army to crush the uprising for democracy and freedom in Hong Kong. The protests will continue and the goal post will keeping moving until total freedoms and autonomy become a certainty.
19
@Girish Kotwal. China benefits from having a free outpost that Westerners can do various business with, sort of like the independent Swiss during WWII. Crushing Hong Kong will hurt China at least as much as it hurts Hong Kong.
3
@Chip from Wheelwell, Indiana. I agree China does benefit from Hong Kong but it is a double edged sword now that China has moved to the mainland the center of business particularly in Shanghai, it has already got whatever it had to gain from Hong Kong. Now it is worried that the contagion of freedom and democratic self rule will be infectious and spread North. Although the Trump administration has decent working relations with the current Chinese government things could get out of hand and protests could grow beyond Hong Kong and striking while the iron is hot may become the name of the game. Three months ago who would have expected the determination and solidarity of a leaderless movement of the people of Hong Kong to fill the streets in millions? All we can hope is that there is no violence and no bodily harm to anyone of our fellow human beings.
4
Wow, look at Carrie Lam's latest quote!
"Do we really want to push our home to the abyss where it will be smashed into pieces?"
Until now, she's merely ignored the consistent demands of what started out as peaceful protesters. Now, as she continues to ignore them, and their anger boils, she decides to threaten them instead of starting to listen to them.
But this IS the Chinese way of doing government. The Party Rules, and the people obey.
Which reminds me of that old saying, Absolute Power Corrupts Absolutely.
151
@Lou S. Maybe she is listening to the peaceful opinions of the many like me who do not want her to give in to violent blackmail. What makes you think the protesters represent the majority? The Umbrella Movement failed through lack of support, and, quite frankly, that is what they are trying to push again, now that the extradition amendment has been killed, and they will likely fail again due to lack of support.
2
@Andrew
Maybe Andrew, Beijing-vetted Lam is listening to Beijing and Xi Jinping. Wouldn't that be a surprise.
2
@Andrew
Actually, what makes me think they represent the majority is that millions have appeared in the streets on many days, including young and old, and even entire families. And companies have permitted and/or encouraged workers to participate. The uprising is almost without precedent in scope, in such a small place. Have you even watched the videos? I really have to wonder.
Accusing the protesters of "violent blackmail", like you do, is akin to accusing a woman who starts screaming at, and raising a knife at her would-be rapist. These people are fighting for nothing less than to retain their way of life, their freedom, and their dignity. And the Communist Party of China is having none of it.
2
Neither side wants to declare a truce for the fare of looking weak. This sometimes leads to civil war. Its no longer about who is right. But a third party thats non partisan to either side should step in and wake both sides up. This is the only way to come about a truce in this instance. As ridiculous as it sounds a country negotiator should have no vested interests in the out come. But talking on equal footing on the both side. example in far left field a UN representative like Poland , Norway maybe Vietnam representatives (no long that close a relationship to china as it once was) .
OK - so these airport protests are starting in the afternoon / evening?
Australia is basically southern Asia, and it is evening.
Are these protesters trying to impact air traffic predominantly to Europe and the Americas?
If so, maybe it is time for some world leaders to start talking and defending democracy.
6
Most of the flights to the US leave in the morning and early afternoon. Only a few have been cancelled. Trips under 6 hours have been hit harder.
1
So Australia is no longer a sovereign power but is “Southern Asia”.
Telling. And honest.
Already the CCP consul in Brisbane directs the governance of Queensland University, encouraging students loyal to the CCP to beat up Hong Kong and Australian students at the university. Why has that consul not been sent packing by the Australian government?
Southern Asia is why.
America, wake up. China is an existential threat to democracy and freedom everywhere.
6
@Frank
You overreact.
I was commenting of the times of the protests. Australia and China, because Australia is south of Asia, live in similar time zones.
And as far as the protests at Qld Uni are concerned, the Oz govt told the CCP consul to knock it off and that in Oz free speech and freedom to protest is protected, and violence will not be tolerated.
5
Disturbing a busy airport and getting innocent passengers stuck is the last thing you need in a peaceful protest. It causes more trouble to ordinary people than to the authority and will certainly provide an excuse for a possible crackdown.
23
@Ju
Liberty is fine as long as no one is inconvenienced. Make waves, but don't really make waves. Protest, but don't really bother anyone.
How does protesting and always making sure no is inconvenienced work. Door mice is the answer. Be a door mouse and don't be seen.
Pro Tip: The Chinese are going to take their liberty and if they will not worry about children, elderly or buildings. They will do everything they want and send a message to all of China as well as Asia. China will not worry about inconvenience. Once that starts there will be a guerilla war in HK. It will be a mess.
6
The police made a serious mistake firing tear gas into the subway station. (tear gas is meant to force crowds to disperse, but there is no way to disperse from inside a train station when the exits are blocked by the police. It was purely a form of torture for anyone stiuck inside the station)
In response, the protesters are now occupying the airport. They know many more people around the world would be shocked to see a volent police crackdown inside an airport.
It's a shrewd move. A heavy handed police response in the airport would cripple tourism and business travel.
When senior citizens, doctors and other professionals are rallying in support of the students, and reporters are openly questioning the ligitimacy and motivations of the government, it's time for the puppet regime to either start negotiating in earnest or pack their bags and go.
401
Sadly, Saudi Arabia seems not to have faced lasting international pariahship after its atrocities... hard to Imagine HK facing any real economic disruption bc of police brutality.
2
@Nobody
A heavy-handed response in the airport provides the US political cover to respond with a heavier hand in trade.
Not widely appreciated is that China's trade has been pretty balanced with the rest of the world over the years. That balance consists of a huge trade surplus with the USA and a huge trade deficit with most of the rest of the planet. If they give US trade hawks the excuse they await, the party's over. (The surplus party, I mean. Of course.)
@Nobody: *Some* "senior citizens, doctors and other professionals are rallying", but many are *not*. What makes you think that these people are representative of the will of the people? I really don't see it myself. And I am a professional and work with professionals. Many senior citizens are furious and frustrated with the protests - like the lady that was represented in the West as "standing up for the protesters against the police" - she was actually shouting at the protesters to go home, which was her main aim (although she was also not wanting them to get hurt).
4
I fully support the protesters, and would be among them if were I a citizen of Hong Kong. But Beijing will do whatever it takes to restore its authority and end the protests, including use of military force. How they re-establish control depends mostly on how far the protesters push their position. I am sad to say that this is unlikely to end well for the people of Hong Kong.
6
This is the most poignant political story of our time. Where China meets Democracy and decides to kill it. China, with its atrocious record on human rights, is just biding its time, waiting until the international press loses interest...then they will murder.
Stay strong Hong Kongers. So brave. Our hearts are with you all. So brave. You are fighting for something worth fighting for.
xx
530
@scientella
“Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed, citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has.” – Margaret Mead, American Anthropologist.Nov 14, 2017
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@scientella
Indeed, and it serves, perhaps, as a reminder why old-timers still refer to it as Communist China; they are not like us or the rest of the Western World. They are a dictatorship in modern clothes, with shiny buildings and great wealth. Beneath it all, however, is the dire reality that it is a brutal dictatorship under whom millions have suffered and died from Mao to today. Yes, we have our innumerable flaws, but we and other similarly aligned countries pale in comparison.
14
@scientella
Second attempt. Neat trick; speaking from beyond the grave. She died in 1978. 11:39 am, 8-13-19
China has a great hand here. Clamp down violently or otherwise, the U.S. is in no position to protest given POTUS support for dictatorships and Trump's trade war catastrophe. Trump n e e e e e d s that Trade deal bad. Immediate fallout from the clampdown will be currency devaluation throughout East Asia, and further weakening the U.S. trade balance with Vietnam, China, Japan, Indonesia......Foreign affair's a tad complicated ain't it after all...?
8
@Antony What? You mean governing really isn't as simple as snapping a finger and demanding people do whatever your heart desires? And all this time we thought we'd elected our own personal magic genie in a bottle. Personally I kind of wish he were put into a bottle full of acid, but we can't have everything.
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It's time—past time—for the stolid unflappable Ms. Lam to step down.
She has lost credibility with such a large sector of the demographic that that is the only realistic way for Hong Kong to move forward.
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@srwdm
The only credibility she needs is the approval of Party leaders in Beijing. Despite the trappings left over from colonial days, Hong Kong is not really a democracy as the ruling authorities on the mainland can - and will likely ultimately - get their evil ways.
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@George S Yup. Hong Kong's only leverage is to make Beijing think they will destroy Hong Kong's economic power by going too far, and the success of that lever will depend on how much HKers are willing to sacrifice to keep up the fight. Might have to be some of their lives. Remember Tiananmen Square?
Imagine America in the 60s under rule similar to today's China, when the civil rights protests broke out. What if it wasn't dogs, tear gas, fire hoses, and police batons, but instead tanks and live ammo fired into crowds?
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@Barry Williams If it had come close in the late 60s to open revolt and winning on the streets of America, it would have been tanks and live ammo. There is a reason Nixon won twice and Reagan replaced a weak Ford and Carter.
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I think it would be much more effective for the protesters to let the people who are stuck there to head home and let airport operations resume.
At this point I think random days of flash mob protests at the airport will be effective as they’ll happen on a random basis causing the limiting of travel anyway. I wouldn’t travel to Hong Kong if I knew I could get stuck there.
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Indeed. I travel there regularly for work and have cancelled my trip this week because I have no confidence that I can get back in time to honour my other commitments. I spoke to three other people today who have done the same thing.
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Indeed. I travel there regularly for work and have cancelled my trip this week because I have no confidence that I can get back in time to honour my other commitments. I spoke to three other people today who have done the same thing.
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@Paul Sorry for the minor inconvenience Paul. Democracy and peoples freedom is at stake. They are at the airport so they cannot be ignored by those in the western world. They want to cause you an inconvenience so you awake to their plight.
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