One of Crusius's parents is a therapist, the other a health care professional, and numerous classmates had noticed that Crusius was abnormal. In the Dayton case, the perpetrator even had been expelled from school for having a target list of girls.
A clear lesson from these two N.R.A. sponsored massacres is that "red flag laws" will do little to stop future shootings:
"Her son had recently ordered a military-style weapon. Her call to the Allen Police Department was first reported by CNN."
* * *
“It was an informational call based off of his age, maturity and lack of experience handling a weapon,” said Mr. Ayres, who said the police told her that, according to the law, her son was allowed to have the weapon. “It was in no way, shape or form something that was out of concern of him being a threat.”
Another quotation from the article is equally haunting:
“We’d talk about guns because we lived in Texas,” she said. “He couldn’t wait to buy one.”
Texas just reduced its already sparse regulation of firearms.
1
It's almost inevitable that your first thoughts when hearing about one of these massacres is the same: male, white, typically in their twenties, and likely not diagnosed with any mental illness ( though may be " off, " disaffected," or from a " dysfunctional " family of divorce, abuse,or neglect).
Also...carrying a weapon of war.
These weapons were banned for years. There were few mass shootings.
Now it appears that so many people, typically male, "need " them...often in multiples. Banning these weapons isn't an act of courage, it is a simple indication of every American's right ( freedom ) to live. We should not be giving up that right to young extremists and old ideologues and corrupt members of Congress.
The Second Amendment gives no one the " right" to own these weapons. However, they are the last remaining profitable source of income for these rapidly declining gun manufacturers. So they are marketed accordingly to the weak, the young, and those with minimal self confidence to boost their small egos. Who, in turn,use them against the rest of us.
If Massacre Mitch and the GOP are so indebted to the NRA and the gun manufacturers for their ability to remain in office, let's call it for what it is.
Accessory to murder for not taking very reasonable precaution to keep their constituents safe from gun violence.
For until we make them personally responsible for this carnage they do absolutely nothing to stop, they are, in fact, complicit in each and every massacre.
141
@It's About Time Banned for years? What ban are you talking about? The one in the 90s? That one statistically had no impact on shootings.
1
@Bryce
No impact? Please check https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Assault_Weapons_Ban
The graphic shows that if the ban had no real impact at that time compared to the situation earlier, the surge in deaths started right after its ban.
1
As far as I know military style weapons have never been banned and have been widely available for generations. (The Assault Weapons ban of the 1990’s did not reduce the sale of assault weapons so I am not counting it here.)
What seems to have happened is that the normal improvement in military style weapons has produced rifles with high firepower that have mixed with the normal classical hunting rifles. These rifles have been talked about so much that they are famous and are now named checked popular songs. It is predictable that troubled teenagers would go to them to be part of the teen culture. At the same time these guns became popular our culture started its long decline into the conservative hate culture which has produced extreme political divisions and wide spread media echo chambers. It is predictable that impressionable teenagers will be influenced by hate media and may even find in it the sense of belonging they crave. And the fuse is lit.
If we want to live in a conservative media hate bubble we have to accept the consequences, that some of our impressionable children will take it seriously and shoot up a Walmart. We can stop it if we want to. Just talk a conservative into being kind instead of hate-filled and the solution will begin.
2
just ban all guns, Mexico does this and its the safest place in the world
1
It's the guns. stupid.
2
He was radicalized by FOX News and Trump's speeches.
3
Will any of the moderators at the September Democratic presidential debate ask for a show of hands on who is in favor of totally banning the sale of these military weapons of mass destruction to the public and the immediate confiscation of all of these WMDs now in the hands of the public? This could be a revealing moment are these candidates also at the beck and call of the gun lobby?
2
The prosecutors will try to put Crusius to death. His appointed lawyer will " try every tool to prevent it from happening " Why? For what? So that our tax dollars will pay to keep this mass murderer alive for the rest of his life? Personally I resent and hate that!
There are many places online (notably 8chan) that serve as a virtual "Lord of the Flies" island filled with immature young men and teen boys. They do not seem to connect with others outside of this world. They do not have the influence of wiser older men and women in these low-empathy, misogynist, racist and violent echo chambers.
4
This is a clear case of Trump's pathological incitement to violence carried out. Trump is guilty of manslaughter. No other possible conclusion. Grow Up America!
3
Funny how now that disaster has struck people suddenly have all sort of vaguely negative recollections of him.
1
“El Paso Suspect Ordered Gun and Moved Out in Weeks Before Attack”
I was really disappointed in the obvious
negative slant to this story. The young man is on trial for his life. I don’t think the fact that he wasn’t in any activities in High made him the monster that we saw in El Paso. He is also innocent until Proven guiltily in this country. I hoped for better from you.
2
No information here about who sold him the gun and how much he paid for it. I'm sure the seller isn't about to tell us but I think the folks in El Paso would like to know. And so would the rest of us. I think we all have a right to to ask the gun seller - who asked the gunman no questions - -some questions of our own.
3
Not negating that we should have gun control laws or make it impossible to buy ammunition or other controls that should be in place, but many of these situations lead back to the family and questionable parenting.
Any mother who would not think that buying an assault rifle is a insane action should not be a mother.
You can not publish this, but it's the truth, people need to start really taking some responsibility in their own families for gun ownership, or if you find out your relative in buying that type of weapon. Same as parents who do not pay attention to their child's internet activity and the kids become jihadists.
None of this happens in a vacuum, it happens because parents can't be bothered to find out the truth, or just want to live in denial at the expense of the public.
2
None of the proposed gun control laws would have stopped the recent mass shootings, so these laws are all political maneuvers. In this the Republicans have nothing to gain in cooperating. If the laws pass, the Democrats will claim victory and gloat. The Republicans will not get any credit for cooperation but will lose their base.
Trump continues to hire illegal workers but keeps calling it an invasion. The hypocrisy is striking.
Mobile Payroll Construction is a Trump Organization property that sends a crew of workers around to Trump properties. They’ve built stone walls, chimneys, waterfalls, and more at multiple Trump properties—Jorge Castro, one of the undocumented workers, had worked at seven different ones—and they are part of a larger pattern: “Since January, The Post has interviewed 43 immigrants without legal status who were employed at Trump properties,” Joshua Partlow and David Fahrenthold write. “In all, at least eight Trump properties have employed immigrants who entered the United States illegally, some as far back as 19 years, The Post has found.
1
So, Trump doesn’t hire illegals, after all.
An immature man leaves home suddenly, after purchasing a powerful weapon. These are dots. A phone call to the police asking for advice on the weapon purchase with no curiosity and no follow-up. More dots.
Law enforcement and gun sellers, as well as family members, need to do a better job of helping each other in cases like this to preempt tragedy.
2
This instance of opportunity would not have survived a law that requires a court appearance to confiscate weapons. Some emergency method needs to exist that bypasses the time necessary to conform to such a requirement that immediately gets a weapon out of the hands of a potential shooter or it’s not effective in any manner.
4
I just checked what's on sale at the Walmart here in town. Plenty of rifles and pistols, but no ammunition other than pellets. Just down the road, however, there are three shops that have all the ammunition you'd need. So, the person bent on mayhem could first buy a bunch of bullets, stuff them in his pockets, and then trot over to Walmart to buy the weapon of his choice. Then skip from one aisle to the next and shoot whomever he bumps into. The noise and yells wouldn't be all that strange in a place that's usually filled with kids screaming and folks gossiping at high volume. I'm thinking of shopping somewhere else.
6
@Rea Tarr
why would you shop there to begin with?
that family has destroyed america's small business.
walmart shoppers are complicit in the demise of the usa.
3
Once a child turns 18 , ( age may vary) mental health records are considered private and not available to the parents only unless the patient chooses to allow it by signing release forms. So even if a family system had acknowledged and been actively involved in the child’s mental health care , they are literally cut out of the process. If your child is 18 or over, forget being involved unless they literally allow you to be. So goes the helplessness of the parents. This is one of the strongest reasons that I believe guns should never be available for sale to anyone under 25. The brain is not fully developed until age 25. Schizophrenia is just one illness that manifests typically in early 20s. What is so hard about looking to countries that have been successful and adopting their policies. The USA must look in the mirror and make bold major changes . I don’t know why any country would admire us.
10
Control the guns, control the gun violence.
8
I don’t think this type of speculative article needs to be published. LET THE FBI DO THE PROFILING. The recollections of teenage friends are a highly unreliable indicator of this monster’s personality. As for the mother’s call - there’s no evidence of it, undoubtedly a ploy to shift the blame for her son’s heinous act. Finally, this article does a thinly veiled job of casting suspicions on any people who don’t fit into the mainstream extrovert persona by somehow relating their behavior to this White Supremacist’s inhumanity. Irresponsible journalism.
4
Ak47: a “missed warning sign...” ???
4
If you think someone is going to hurt themselves or someone else with a gun you just can't let it go with a phone call. My husband and a group of his co-workers/buddies did an intervention on a friend going thru a rough divorce. Today that friend believes they saved his life and the life of his ex-wife by taking the hunting rifles out of the house. Don't stop, be relentless, talk to the police, involve the family - do what you need to do. You may just be being a hero.
5
We do not know much about the killer. Certainly in a broken home, he was looking for the missing father to guide him. This parallels the saga of Adam Lanza, the Sandy Hook killer, too. Apparently he heard the fatherly leadership from the many hate speeches of Donald Trump.
28
@bnc
In the case of Adam Lanza it was his mother who bought the guns for him. His mother is divorced from a GE Executive that gave her half a million a year and the house they lived in. Also, all college and a new care expenses were guaranteed for Adam. It was well known by his mother Adam was not mentally stable but nothing was done for him.
21
All the money in the world cannot replace an absent parent.
5
@bnc There are millions of well-adjusted and conscious people raised in one parent homes.
10
In any other developed country, there is no way that this unhappy young man would have been able to procure such a weapon; either legally or illegally. America's guns laws are insane, and its gun-toting culture has led to a fetishisation of weaponry among disenchanted young men. In other countries, health care is a right and owning a lethal weapon is a privilege restricted to those who can prove they have a legitimate need for the weapon, and are in possession of a sound mind. In America, owning a gun has somehow mutated into a right and comprehensive health care has become a privilege.
675
@Lowly Pheasant
Exactly right. The 2nd Amendment was designed to protect the fledgling new country against attacks by foreign actors still posing danger to the colonies. Now Americans are attacking each other instead. Nowhere in the Constitution does it say we have the right to be a hunting culture and open carry in schools and church. I refuse to go to states that have these laws. How can you feel safe in a restaurant knowing someone is carrying a gun. Too scary.
87
@Lowly Pheasant: I thank you for your comment. It's tragic for this country that a majority of us want a ban on assault weapons, better background checks, close gun show and private sale loopholes and yet we are stuck in the mud, spinning our wheels and nothing gets done.
It feels like a cone of insanity and high, constant anxiety has descended upon America and each day brings more chaos and grief. I have my doubts we can make it to 2020 without a major breakdown, this slow-moving Constitutional crisis that Trump and his crew (Barr, McConnell, et al) are foisting upon us. We're headed towards true fascism. If we don't prevail against Trump, I fear for all of us - and the world. He's aligning us with dictators, turning away from allies, making a mess of everything with N. Korea and Iran and Central America. It all makes my heart ache to live in this kind of America. As your comment implies, we are topsy-turvy in a deeply frightening way.
My one child is in Europe right now and says she's coming home next week. I truly wish she would find a home in another country. There's no future here.
80
@Lowly Pheasant-these weapons are weapons of war, why would any civilian need one? Why would any civilian need body armor? Why would any civilian need a hundred round clip?
Are the deer and antelope shooting back, are targets on the shooting range returning fire?
77
This story makes it pretty clear that this killer (like the one in Dayton) is a troubled loner who developed hateful views as a consequence of his mental illness and not some white supremacist ideology. It is pretty despicable and divisive of the 2020 Dem candidates to use this as evidence that there is an extensive web of white supremacists in this country just to make political points.
5
@ehillesum no where is it documented that either of these men had a mental illness. Having a mental illness does not mean you are prone to violence. To continue to link these atrocious acts of violence to mental illness is wrong. The perpetrators of these killings are angry, disaffected (mostly white) men - that does not equate to mental illness.
42
@ehillesum You're just making stuff up to deflect blame from the GOP. Of course the shooting was related to white supremacy. He wrote a manifesto based on the racist rhetoric our president spews. Just because someone is mentally ill (if he indeed was- sounds like he may just be socially awkward) doesn't mean they are hateful. The hateful ideas must come from somewhere, such as from 8chan and President Trump. "You have to be carefully taught" as the song goes.
14
While I know you’re only dutifully recycling NRA talking points, I encourage you to read the article more carefully. It in no way, shape, or form supports the notion that either murderer was mentally ill, much less makes it “pretty clear.”
Being a hate-filled misfit isn’t a mental illness.
14
Many "odd loners" cannot afford the high cost of treatment for mental health care.
That's a tragedy of a different sort.
4
If his mother felt the need to call the police then there was an issue. Period. I feel sorry for the family, and while I think they had no idea what he was up to, they certainly knew that he was not right.
2
What I find very alarming is Walmart's silence. No CEO is being fired for allowing weapons of any kind into their stores. We cannot tell who is so far gone that they are willing to kill to satisfy their fantasy of being "cool" and like McVeigh to die for their cause, a justification to commit murder. Walmart has yet to recognize they have a problem. The access to military style weapons is the problem, it means mass causalities. And like it or not, extremists who cannot understand how to change their world through legislation or peaceful means will continue their hateful speech and incite others to do harm.
First, the guns need to go until all humans can get help when they are in a bad mental state. Secondly, more mental health evaluations and counseling should be made available at no cost to family members who know something is wrong. These family members need information on whether someone should intervene or not. Third, we need to let go at last, of the psychological false argument from the GOP, the NRA and those who carry guns that a gun will protect you from another person who intends on killing you. It won't, that person has already crossed the line about killing another human being. We didn't get rid of them after Sandy Hook, when small children were gunned down and we saw the Republicans "cry" yet no legislation. Someone asked back then, how many deaths will it take?
1
It will be challenging for individuals with personality disorders to be prevented from purchasing a firearm.
2
amazing how high the percentage of people in poverty, drug abuse and crime are from broken homes.
gee. can we focus on the nuclear family, please? maybe that would save us a lot of grief and money, too.
amazing that we even think for a second that the destruction of the nuclear family would not lead to these social ills. where's moynihan when you need him?
It's interesting that the 'manifesto' has never been confirmed as being written by the shooter, but that hasn't stopped every media outlet from just running with the notion that it was.
Are the police complicit in this killing?
Mass shootings with military grade weapons is unique to America and nowhere else in the world. As horrendous as they are they don't come close to the murders of women by the thousands in the the hands of their domestic partners every year with regular hand guns. It's OK . They are just meaningless women and because they are killed one at the time every single day. Not enough panache. This should be the real outrage!
5
When my brother-in-law was dying of cancer, while caring for him I found that he had a loaded gun in bed with him. When I talked with my sister about the questionable safety of this, she was unconcerned, saying he worried about intruders, and that the gun made him happy. Given that he was on multiple intoxicating pain medications and suffering from the disorientation of "chemo brain", I asked what would happen when she got up in to use the bathroom in the middle of the night and he mistook her for an intruder, but she was unconcerned. Just the night before he had gotten up at 3 in the morning, wandered outside and fell face down in the snow (it was February). Yet she also refused to inform the hospice agency that was providing care that he had a gun in bed with him. I decided to call the local police to inquire about the legality of this situation and the possibility of temporarily removing guns from their home. I was informed that it was his right to have the gun and there was nothing that could be done. I pointed out that one is not allowed to operate a motor vehicle while intoxicated or incapacitated, so it seemed that one should not be allowed to have a lethal weapon under the same condition. Crickets. He can keep the gun. This is the complete insanity of gun culture and laws in this country.
97
Hope you can publish this in the letters to the editor section!!
7
@Citizen
How did this amendment (Scalia) get so distorted. It reminds me of what Trump said "...I could shoot someone on Fifth Avenue and not lose a single vote."
Is there any other right so abused?
I totally agree with you that it goes against public safety concerns for your brother-in-law to have had that gun. Ditto for an alcoholic, drug abuser, violent offender, etc., etc.
1
I've seen first hand how lonely Americans can be. I am an immigrant and pretty social, live in an upper middle class neighborhood, have a family, work in major company. Something like what most people do... Its really hard to make connections in this society. Everyone likes to mind their own business, run on their treadmill, stay buried on their phone, watch their TV and live a lonely life.
I strongly believe that Americans are at a big disadvantage by being so focused on the self.
17
Unless there's an actual American who believes everyone has the right to cook up a batch of anthrax in their bathtub, every single one of us agrees that it's constitutional to pass and enforce laws regulating civilian possession of weapons. The only points of argument/negotiation are which weapons should be banned and which behaviors should trigger tighter controls on individuals.
We currently draw the weapon line between fully automatic machine-guns and those that require a separate pull for each bullet. There's nothing in the Constitution to support or oppose moving that line in either direction. There are only 2 possible interpretations of the 2nd amendment: either it's forbidden to regulate any arms whatsoever (nuclear, chemical, biological, space lasers?), or else we as a people are responsible for deciding how we want them regulated, and our elected servants' duty is to realize our will.
12
Again, the President and Republicans have fallen back on their time worn excuses for gun violence and mass shoitings: mental illness & violent video games. Japan, where the prevalence & playing of these video games is much higher than in the US, has a considerably lower rate of gun violence. Concerning the issue of mental health, Republicans have come out in favor of Red Flag laws - ERPOs, extreme risk protection orders, which have already been passed by 17 states. They allow individuals or law enforcement officials to petition a court to remove weapons from individuals considered a threat to themselves or others. The mother of the El Paso shooter did contact authorities about her concern regarding her son's purchase of an automatic weapon. His father is a therapist. Who better qualified to recognize a potential mental imbalance tending towards violence? This country is in desperate need of better access to affordable mental health treatment for all, but it will not put a big dent in gun crimes. Whether mentally ill or not, if one can easily acquire a gun, then the frequency & severity of incidents like Dayton, El Paso, Sandy Hook, etc. will not decrease. Pandering by Republicans to the views of trump's "base" in order to ensure his & their re-election, and to the well financed NRA will simply keep the country in a legislative gridlock which will lead to only one thing - more deaths.
4
We can and should say it till we're blue in the face, and the some: It's the guns.
It's not mental illness, racism, white supremacy, jihadism, or any other ideology.
It's the guns. Everything else is a distraction.
Get rid of the guns, get rid of gun violence.
14
The public will be despondent should legislature pass meaningful gun control and nothing much improves. On the first mass shooting, the gun crowd and the NRA will exclaim a big 'I told you so'. They'd be correct. As Shakespeare put it 'The fault dear Brutus is not in our stars but in ourselves...'.
The true meaning of a gun is sadly absent from our psyche. We're enured to its devastation... by romanticized movie depictions; by our volunteer army; by the macho culture; by video games and countless other examples. But their intended purpose should be clear to us. They're for killing. .
And because of our complacency and coupled with the sheer numbers, they will be brandished and used ever so cavalierly. We need to ask what for what society we're striving and what role these tools of killing should play in that society. We need to examine our 2nd Amendment and even more importantly--our humanity.
5
1) He was calm and normal and surrounded by family.
2) Had parents who were a therapist and a nurse.
3) His mother even TOLD the police of this country of the military gun purchase.
And some will still claim that they can stop these killings WITHOUT removing the guns from society
17
Ban all assault weapons, and confiscate them if necessary. It's that simple.
14
@Daphne
Everything is simple, to the simple-minded
How would you suggest we go about confiscating millions of those guns?
After reading this and seeing he was a conservative that should be a future red flag for authorities. Then to own a gun another. Remember conservatism has a violence problem . Texas Gov Rick Perry recently said the Federal ‘Reserve man should be beat up for raising rates. A Montana Republican Congressman assaulted a news reporter for being asked a question he did not like. Then Trump has stated many times it is ok for his people to take action against society if they don’t get there ways. Why our churches who support the Republicans who are out to destroy our freedoms and Democracy don’t speak up about their behaviors daily is sad . They need to speak up daily now or close their doors for turning their heads. Shame on them.
Don't think that better police or background checks will deter troubled loners who crave powerful killing machines like AR15's. GIven the budgets and salary for police officers, does anyone realistically expect investigative detectives will follow up on vague calls from mothers. And does anyone really think that red-flag laws will curb disturbed men with minimal criminal records. Only a complete ban of these weapons and ammo is going to check this horrific litany of mass shootings.
10
A solitary boy goes through his school life alone and uninvolved in activities, friend of his sister do not know of him?
What is wrong with this picture?
Human beings are social by nature. We are not loners. We share information, good times, bad times.
What could have prevented this boy or anyone in our great nation from falling between the cracks and live the life of a loner?
Somewhere, someone, some group, some school, needed to interact with this boy. Maybe school needs to make it mandatory to join a school group?
Maybe having a one on one with everyone and especially anyone at risk of being alone and not connecting to determine his interests and for sure add more group time at least at school.
Then I heard in another shooting how the hungry boy who entered a food place and then went back out to get his weapon to shoot people inside? What went wrong when he went inside the first time to make him decide to shoot them?
Too many, by accident or design, are alone in this country, poor and failing, and each of us and our congress and president must do better for them.
We need to be nicer, kinder, more inclusive as a people, as a nation. Enough of this insane illogical cruel legislation or lack thereof, pitilously leaving out the state of the common man.
3
Thank you for the sanest comment I have read on this subject. You have identified the real problem of isolation that many do not see. The irony here is that most of these stories could have been cured by a little kindness and that is something that is beyond the power of legislation to accomplish. I hope we learn enough about ourselves to help these kids but it doesn’t look like that is going to happen anytime soon.
2
Do something: #treatgunslikecars
Pass it on.
2
Yup, and Trump and McConnell have the ignorant gall to say that Red Flag Laws would prevent gun violence. WHAT IDIOTS! WHAT HYPOCRITES!
This is but one of thousands of such "missed opportunities". We do not yet have a Big Brother State, but it will come if Trump gets re-elected; Barr will make sure. There is no conceivable way to screen the masses for any significant number of potential mass murderers, period. Tom Cruise's pre-cognition does not exist.
On a scale of effectiveness from 1 to 10, Red Flag Laws rank perhaps a 1 in preventing mass violence - STRICT GUN CONTROL RANKS 9! CONFISCATION of military-type weapons along with strict registration and vetting ranks 10!
Do you want SAFETY or blithering, whining, meaningless hyperbole to keep you and your children safe? YOUR choice, but mine is the former like every other civilized society. The days of Wyatt Earp are over, except in Trump's cowardly, delusional mind.
9
There is no second amendment for cars.
Pass it on.
Confiscation would work if it were possible but this country has a wide variety of laws (not just the second amendment) that stand in the way. If we had never allowed the sale of military style rifles starting in the 1960’s it might be possible to control them today. But there are now about 10 million such rifles in circulation and about 50 million large capacity magazines for them. They are not registered and they were all bought legally. More over, since they have become iconic they are now the go to rifle platform for all applications and have been redesigned in countless different calibers, lengths and styles. Literally everyone who owns guns has at least one in the closet. It is impossible to write a law that targets just the “military style” because that style has morphed into everything else. And it is not legal to confiscate everything so we are at a logical impasse.
Background checks will not do it. Registration will not do it. Licensing will not do it. Targeting mental illness will not do it. We are irretrievably a gun plentiful country.
We will need to change the atmosphere of the country itself. We will need to start cooperating and helping each other. We will have to start being kind and reaching out to everyone and every child who seems isolated and alone. It’s institutionalized kindness that can help us and that is often called bleeding heart liberalism in this country. But until we accept those values the killing will go on and on.
1
The assault weapon was a flashing red sign.The mother calling the police department suggests she was very concerned. The shooter sounds like he is on the autistic spectrum similar to Adam Lanza. I don’t know if his mother had the opportunity to go into the room and take that gun. All parents need to be closely but discreetly involved in their children’s lives and a child with social isolation issues even more so, investigate, stay mindful, know what’s going on in their children’s world.
2
Assault weapons ban is over due. All other gun owners (who have passed background checks) should need to come to a state office and demonstrate competency and safety awareness. Get ID'd and registered. Pass a test in-person and then get the keys...just like for driving. Before everyone gets lathered up about criminals and illegal use of firearms and Chicago or Baltimore or Urban gun violence...slow that down. We have police who are trying to do the best they can those kinds of incidents are at historic lows (yes...check out that data) but mass shootings have sky rocketed. Its legal guns and non-criminal citizens that are causing this tidal wave.
4
Mom's query was a tip that law enforcement should have followed up. Not hard to connect the dots.
2
A mother calls the police about her 21 year old son who purchased a gun on the internet? i doubt he "ordered" one from a gun store ( they would have already had them).
We need some kind of control or background check on internet sales of AK-47s. He would have also purchased bullets and magazines of bullets for the gun. This is just routine business?? in gun sales. No questions asked? Would a "red Flag" law even pick this up??
3
The patterns are familiar. White male, loner, withdrawn, a bit “weird”, check. So far, not troubling. That’s teens. Add gaming and no physical activity. Still common. Add a deep fascination with politics. At that age, it’s less common. Add distrust of government and anti-liberal animus (it can be the other way), expressed in social media. Red flag. Add fascination with guns. More red flags. Add gun ownership. Klaxons blasting, klieg lights, strobes, yes: trouble brewing. Do something.
4
The NRA and its mouthpieces in congress repeatedly claim that certain changes in our gun laws (background checks, closing the gun show loophole, etc.) "would have had no effect" on the particular mass-killing-du-jour being discussed. Either the killer had no history of mental health issues, he bought his gun legally or, as in this instance, someone raised concerns with law enforcement but there was no legal course of pre-emptive action, etc.
These same talking points continue to be recycled as evidence that changes to our gun-ownership laws will be pointless, and to encourage us that gun carnage is just part of life in America. Well... neither of those things is true, and maintaining the status quo only makes future events inevitable.
It's time to stifle the NRA and the elected officials they own, and to acknowledge the obvious -- if such measures are insufficient to have prevented already-committed mass-murder, and to prevent further incidents, then we need to pursue far MORE sweeping restrictions on gun ownership, adn the types of weapons allowed on the market.
THE NRA's own talking points should be used against itself. Given its internal power struggle, the financial malfeasance of its leader, and the public awakening over two mass-shootings within 13 hours, the NRA is presently in disarray. There's never been a better time to pounce...
10
The mother was told that he could legally have a gun. After all, its Texas. A law just went into effect in Texas that forbids landlords from questioning gun possession regarding their tenants. Then the tenant shoots up the building and the landlord gets sued. The whole state of Texas is one big firing range.
11
An aimless, computer-addicted young man who secretly harbored a racist ideology was able to legally purchase a civilian variant of the military M16 rifle and many rounds of ammunition.
Henceforth, everything that happened subsequently stems from this purchase.
Q: What can be done to intervene in the linked events of desiring to kill, obtaining a weapon, and killing?
To have intervened before the murders occurred would have required great incidental good luck, or an alll-knowing China-style police surveillance state.
Luck didn't hold. No one called the FBI and said, Watch this kid.
Americans won't stand for an intrusive surveillance state.
What is possible? I repeat: What can be done to intervene in the chain of events of desiring to kill, obtaining a weapon, and killing?
The question answers itself.
78
Answer is simple: reduce the scale of killing by abolishing big guns. Like in any other country. That makes the difference between one killed and two dozen killed.
37
@Taz
You nailed it. Preventing radicalization is laudable but hard. Easy is: not allowing everyone and his cousin a lethal weapon. Duh.
39
@Elisabeth First off, you can start by citing the correct make and model of the gun used in the crime. The gun was not a civilian variant of the M16. In fact, it was a variant of the AK47. Most of these crimes are committed with a civilian variant of the M4, not M16. The M4 is normally chambered in a 223 which is the equivalent of the NATO 5.56 round. The AK47 and the M16 are chambered in the NATO 7.62 round
So the perp held white supremacist ideation long before the ascension of candidate or President Trump. Someone needs to pass this important information on to Beto, Booker, Warren, and Kamala
1
@Brewster Millions - But with Trump in office, he felt empowered enough to act on it.
6
@Brewster Millions
Donald Trump is a symptom. His presence in office supports the ideation. It is a feedback loop. Whether or not he held white, nationalistic views prior to Trump's ascension to his office is irrelevant.
This cycle needs to be broken. Please do not argue in bad faith; focus on solutions, not petty trivialities.
3
@Brewster Millions
The point is that the president legitimizes that ideology by espousing it CONSTANTLY. So the perp was inspired and encouraged by his president. This is not the sort of ideology he will hear from the next Democratic president!
6
I’ve never understood our laws which tie the hands of our law officers, courts, medical industry which stops any common sense actions from being taken when it is evident individuals are threats to their own well being and others. Aren’t we advanced enough to be able to protect our selves? Our families? Our neighbors? Restrictions, guidelines should, could be enacted. Instead of the constant back and forth we have with our government. Legislators could do what is necessary. Wouldn’t that be something?
1
@Elly
It is a primary right, not a privilege, to own a gun. A primary right is akin to the right to life and liberty. It is a constitutional right so firmly interpreted by the S.C. that lawmakers feel hand tied.
Please use that explanation with the people who are losing their loved ones. When someone’s rights supersede your right to life it’s time for a change. I don’t say this in sarcasm but again beyond any law written how long ago? Common sense must prevail, life must prevail. Tell these victims families it’s as easy as it is someone’s right to have weapons to kill therefore taking your right to life. I appreciate your explanation.
@Larry
It is well known that constitutional rights can (1) be amended and (2) aren't absolute rights that cannot be limited for the public good. Think of how it is illegal to yell "FIRE" in a crowded theater due to safety concerns despite our 1st amendment right to free speech. Further, there is considerable academic debate regarding the interpretation of the second amendment. There is more than a few ways to address this gun issue. Trotting out the Constitution is not an end the discussion. We can still do something to curtail this violence.
For those who may have justifiably been confused by my use of "NH" rather than Texas or wherever the heck it is, forgive me. I'm still furious, sputtering at the ineptitude, the disingenuousness of our Congress, and Trump's whoredom as he craves NRA money for his campaign...
Shameful, it is. I apologize.
3
Why did the police capture Crucius in El Paso, and kill Betts in Dayton?
2
@Dan Holton
You really would have to dive into the SOPs of the two departments involved. These are two separate police. Perhaps the layout of the Texas incident made it easier. Maybe it was the shooter's actions himself that allowed for capture. Maybe the Dayton shooter was uncapturable. Maybe the Dayton Chief of Police felt that elimination was a quicker course of action.
One thing I would put my money on: the Texas police department surely had more experience with guns and gun-owners. It is Texas, of course.
2
@Dan Holton
El Paso surrendered to cops, Dayton did not.
3
@Dan Holton
A question to ask is: Why Dylan Root and Patrick Crusius, both mass murders, were taken into custody alive and unharmed while Eric Garner was killed during his arrest for selling loose cigarettes?
7
His mother is worried that he has an AK-47, but that's just fine according to Texas law?
He is an "odd" "loner" who ordered an AK-47. Then he massacres 22 people after posting a racist manifesto. Shocking, but not surprising in this country at this point.
This is insane. We should ban AK-47s. Why is that not obvious?
22
Social isolation, lack of friends, shy, and even his family knows not what is going on in his mind. His parents are both professional caregivers, a psychological therapist and nurse. Any chance of noticing that this man was going to do harm seems to have been low.
His mom was concerned about his buying a gun, which indicates to me that either she was concerned about him having a gun or that their family does not keep guns and is uncomfortable with having them around. His having reached maturity meant that she could do little unless she could prove that he was a threat. In the state of Texas, gun ownership is very high and the likelihood of a normal young man who had reached maturity buying a legal firearm doing harm is unlikely. Low rates of poor outcomes of anything with high frequencies of events always produce higher amounts poor outcomes, it’s just math. There was nothing presented to police to cause alarm.
There will be a lot of reflection about this to see whether this could have been anticipated and avoided.
Yes, no gun, no shooting. The same argument as no gravity, no falling. The difference being that gravity cannot be altered. Guns may be banned but they will not be. They are useful and given as much and as many as are used safely, the exception is not going to determine the outcome.
2
The most ignored factor regarding terrorist mass shootings is the role of women in facilitating or even participating in the events. I cite recent research published by the GWU Program on Extremism. Women get a pass by police and investigators by invoking children, pearl clutching, and as this article observes, they ‘...do not want to be associated with a mass shooting.’ And even when prosecuted, they experience leniency far greater than do men. I have yet to read an article about the shooters prior acquaintances or friends, or in one case, the shooter’s sister, that does not say they are “bubbly.” And remember, one shooter drove to the site with his older sister and another friend, with body armor, guns and ammunition. She, too, is said to have been “bubbly” with language suggesting no involvement. The crowd seeking to absolve possible actors in the massacres using bias and stereotypes, which includes some or many commenters, need to check their privileges at the gate.
2
@Dan Holton
So, you're suggesting that the El Paso and Dayton shooters' sisters are somehow complicit? If so, any shred of evidence?
4
@rokidtoo
She was killed in the shooting and could well have been facilitating her brother’s rampage. Facilitating murders vs pulling the trigger have different standards of evidence. And she’s dead, but who killed her is unknown at this time. The proper role of investigators is to be objective and look into her and the friend who traveled with them. The data on female terrorists has spiked in the prior seven years, mostly young females, and many have gotten away with accessory to murder by virtue of investigators who ignore it in favor of stereotypes about females.
There are lots of young men, and women, who are similarly disconnected, unenthusiastic about school or work, etc. around the world.
The problem we face here in America is we make is super easy for these folks to obtain military grade weapons and as much ammunition as they want. And if they want to pick up an AR-15 without a background screening they just go to the local gun show.
America has got to decide if the lives of its people, children, high school, college, concert goers, shoppers, movie goers, festival goers, municipal workers, etc are more important than guns. 97% of Americans want universal background checks, why are Republicans blocking what we want?
20
I have toyed with the idea of acquiring a pistol from time to time. The attraction is that it enhances ones ability to protect oneself against any size of adversary. I grew up on a farm where owners had to have guns to protect themselves from people who would rob them at gunpoint. My father was shot at while at a neighbors house playing bridge (card game) by such criminals.
High powered and high capacity weapons give one the sense that you can protect yourself against the state. There really are those who fear the government. We just need to be reminded of people like McVee and others who fell into the trap of believing that the state was out to get them.
Fear of what the larger group will do to an individual has been around forever. Just read Kafka's "The Trial" sometime.
Perhaps we need to realize that each of us has the capacity, under the right circumstances, to act out in ways that seem disturbed. That would be an argument that we should not have access to things that can cause death on a large scale.
Of course we all have such access in our carbon based society, as we slowly extinguish life on this planet. So go ahead and stoke the barbecue this summer. Might as well enjoy it while we can.
1
High powered rifles held by some (a few persons defiant of legal authority) would give protection from high powered rifles held by many (many law enforcement officers with backup)? Bundy’s mob was given power in court by citizens to defy the state, not by their little threat of ambushing a few law enforcement officers with no back up. Guns do not prevent tyranny, the determination of the citizens does.
We don't let people under the age of 25 rent a car without paying for extra, very expensive insurance...
You can't legally drive a car or a motorcycle without classes and passing tests...
Individuals cannot get a hold of pharmaceuticals without the permission of a doctor...
Women have to jump through multiple hoops to terminate a pregnancy...
Yet, when it comes to purchasing a firearm, it can be nearly as easy as buying a gallon of milk, depending on where one lives in our country. Obviously this has to change.
36
It would be easy to rank firearms in terms of “firepower” and use a sliding scale in terms how much licensing and control is exercised over their purchase.
We could have a no more checks than now class which would include the world of .22’s, .38 handguns for protection, bolt action hunting rifles and repeating shotguns. Walk in, but, walk out. That covers most needs.
The next group would require a proficiency exam and a slightly more detailed background check. This would be all semi auto handguns, rifles and shotguns. It might take a week to schedule an exam.
The last group would be the extreme. All military style rifles and shotguns with large magazines. This would require a more extensive proficiency exam as well as an in depth background check and an interview with a psychologist. It might take a month to have all these done. Once you have passed you can buy such weapons at will.
Such a graduated scale would not run afoul a the second amendment because anyone could still purchase a firearm for self defense or hunting with no hindrance. And everyone could still buy second and third level firepower weapons after passing heightened scrutiny.
Our shooter in this case, and many others, would have been blocked somewhere along the line. Yes, they could still have bought a .22 for their rampage but it would have caused much less death. In fact, without the aura of the military style weapon they would probably not have shot at all.
2
I am the mother of a 13-year old male. He has mild ADHD and his auditory processing speed is below average. This makes it more difficult for him to focus in class, which can produce anxiety. It can also attract unwanted attention from other classmates and teachers. He's quiet and an avid book reader. He has a few friends in school, but is not an out-going popular kid.
What do we do to support him? We work with his teachers and school counselor and teach him to self-advocate. We work with the teachers to find ways to make his learning environment less exhausting. We give him time to relax and unwind. While he is not particularly athletic, he has been in band for 3 years, which encourages teamwork. We also have him in swimming at the local YMCA for exercise and to be around other kids.
As his parents, we recognize that, through no fault of his own, he is going to have to work harder than a neuro-typical child, and this probably won't change much throughout his life.
We assume that our son will be one of the 99.99% of neuro-atypical kids who don't go on go be mass shooters. But, let's say, for the sake of argument, that he does.
At his point, the problem will be access to guns. Some say that people who kill people. Other say that guns kill people. But, it's not an "either/or" situation. Its a "both/and" situation. People with guns kill people. Both sides need to be addressed.
28
If you have a child with a problem one of the things you do is keep him away from guns.
Testosterone poisoning and Guns : A very deadly combination. How's this: Except for qualified law Enforcement AND active duty Military, BAN all Males from Gun possession.
Seriously.
10
Why don’t we look at the roles of females in terrorist killings with guns, knives, bombs, and screwdrivers; or who facilitate terrorism by hiding the weapons and detonators in clothing. Then with exceptions for authorities, ban all such people from owning the above listed weapons. But something tells me the folks calling for such bans are going to run into the US Constitution. PS Men are not the problem, as women these days are just as likely to do terrorist killings ( def. killing four or more people in a single setting).
I know what the gun absolutists would say to this.
Everyone must get a brain scan every week to make sure they are not mentally ill, and only then can they be prevented from buying any kind of gun.
Never mind that such a scan does not exist, or that it would be unimaginably intrusive. It is not prohibited by the constitution -- I challenge you to show me the words "brain scan" anywhere in there, and anything else you say is just weasely liberalism, plus I guarantee you the Supreme Court would agree 5-4 with me.
1
You have never known a jerk who used a gun to try to force people to do what he wanted? He should feel entitled to do that? The ability to kill because one can is not an unalienable right that society must permit. Society exists to provide safety from such violence.
It's hard to believe, or at least to understand, how the parents of this sad boy/man weren't extremely alarmed as he purchased an assault rifle type weapon. To me this is Adam Lanza all over again; it's possible the parents just couldn't see it, couldn't believe THEIR kid could become a mass murderer. Most people like this guy never will kill anyway, of course; it's impossible to tell in advance who will. An assault rifle ban, a complete ban starting with buybacks, is a MUST. We can't prevent murders in general, but we can prevent mass murders.
13
In our society people are allowed to be odd loners without being suspected of plotting mass murder. Most odd loners are not dangerous. The problem is the availability of guns--especially guns designed for mass killing. But don't lose sight of the fact that most gun deaths are accomplished with regular guns, by "regular" people, acting impulsively in anger or fear, often under the influence, and predominantly male. In other words, a big chunk of the population poses the highest risk, statistically. That's why we should re-think all private gun ownership. The Second Amendment is all about a "well-regulated militia." That's the National Guard, folks.
168
@ARNP Not according to our new conservative Supreme Court. They are reading the 2nd amendment in a way that puts us all in danger.
9
@ARNP the National Guard hasn't been a militia since the early 1900s when it became a part of the Federal armed services.
2
Unfortunately, the second amendment has a comma in it and it is about something else as well. I know it was badly written but it still says what it says. It gives an individual right to keep and bear arms to every citizen whether in a militia or not. I know the motivation was to provide for a militia but that is not what they said. They said individual right. So we are stuck with it unless you think you can get part of the bill of rights repealed. (You can’t)
So we are stuck with individual ownership. The question is can we solve this problem any other way?
Of course we can. We can spend a lot more time and money on public schools and pay particular attention to all the alienated white males we find there. We can have targeted out reach programs that help get these kids interested in group activities and help them make friends. We can even get them into legitimate gun clubs if that is their interest and have them mentored by actual hunters and shooters who can show them the proper attitude to hold around guns and help demystify their adolescent gun imagination. We can offer free gun safety lessons in every community so that everyone interested can learn proper safety procedures but most importantly become comfortable around guns so they can quickly spot anyone who is behaving abnormally. And we can get serious about helping families who report mental problems in their kids and stop allowing privacy concerns to trump community safety.
It’s easy, all we have to do is try.
1
I find this appalling. Parents knew, police were notified. Students surely knew, they know everything. Why did the police not act in a timely manner? Are there privacy laws that prevent us from taking charge in these situations? But we are still not addressing the elephant in the room: guns, lots of them, an American fascination with lethal consequences.
43
@Charles Dennis Same thing happened in Parkland, FL. The sad fact is that until someone actually commits a serious crime, the police can do little and the NRA calls them a good guy with a gun.
Cruz was reported to the police, the school, the FBI. He was expelled from the school he shot up. He had mental health issues, he could still legally buy an assault rifle when he turned 18.
8
@Charles Dennis
Sgt. Jon Felty, a spokesman for the Allen Police Department, said the police had found no records of the call from Mr. Crusius’s mother, and had done an extensive search of their records and turned up no threats or arrests.
1
@Charles Dennis
Notified of what? That she was concerned that her son wasn't mature enough to have such a high power weapon?
He was legally an adult which means in Texas and many other states he could not only buy whatever gun he wanted but also carry it anywhere he went.
4
Such a complicated issue. There are kids in every high school who are “ off” and “ not right” in the eyes of peers and teachers. Do we call the police to red flag every one of them? How will that work? How much proof will he needed that they appear different? One call? Several calls? Or just the purchase of an assault rifle? I’d rather see the assault rifles and high capacity magazines cease to be available period.
7
We will never control gun violence through mental health intervention. It is a decoy used to take the heat off guns themselves. There are too many of us that suffer depression, anxiety, OCD or bipolar disorders to start confiscating property, detaining individuals and ordering mandatory therapy. This idea that the mother is more to blame than the manufacturer, seller or licensor of the military grade weapon is absurd but it is the underlying sentiment here.
AND I am always amazed when the rabid pro-gun groups propose that neighbors start reporting on each other to take THEIR guns away as a policy for public safety. The ridiculous- ness of such an idea is easy to test: Let's have no laws regarding the care and control of dogs. But as soon as your neighbor reports something, the police will come to your door and euthanize the animal. Does that sound like good public policy?
63
@Carr Kleeb the military does not use semi automatic rifles like the ones used in mass shootings. None of these weapons are 'military grade'. They are simply made to look like military weapons. They're not especially 'powerful'. They're not machine guns. It's apparent that liberals don't know anything they didn't see in a movie.
@Yeahright Most people don't know much about guns and lack the correct vocabulary to talk about them. But most people are also willing to learn. So what's the right term for "type of firearm that even an untrained schmoe can use to kill 9 people and injure many more in the 30-40 seconds before getting killed by police"? Help us out here.
5
Nobody, absolutely nobody, “needs” an AK-47. If the statements in this article are true, that this young man had little or no familiarity with guns, and was able to get such a weapon of mass destruction, it is even worse than it appears.
179
There needs to be a seamless nation wide background check system that updates in real-time. And it is time to study all the factors that contribute to mass shootings and stabbing including mental health and our culture of violence. That means breaking the hold the NRA has on funding for such studies by the CDC. Even states with strict gun laws like California have high gun violence despite these laws. That tells us there is more to this high profile violence than just the gun. As a trauma surgeon on average I treat at least 3 gunshot injuries and 5-6 stab wounds per night. We are violent and we need to know why in order to properly address it.
26
@Eileen
California's gun problem appears to be due largely to the availability of guns in nearby states. As long as this country has a patchwork of gun regulations, folks who want them will get them relatively easily. Yes, we are a violent culture, and many things contribute to that. But the guns are far more lethal than knives. Background checks are the least we can do, and only likely to spot people with a criminal record (assuming all records are accurate and accessible). I know of no practical way to screen for "oddness," "social isolation," "simmering resentment" or "morbid fascination with revenge fantasies." Let alone simple immaturity, temper problems, impulsivity and insecurity. So yes, we should learn as much as we can about why we are violent. But that will not happen quickly. Only reducing the availability of guns has the potential to make a real dent in homicides any time soon. We can't afford to wait. Given the choice, I'd much prefer my assailant had a knife than a gun.
8
There are political reasons for a lack of study of violence with guns, which should be done. There should also be done more studies of substance abuse in this country, too. Both are strangely high for the most wealthy and relatively secure country that exists, today. Why so must violence, why so much need to alter how people feel?
2
No, California has never been like Manhattan. Lots of guns owned by a lot of people who use them regularly. The recent laws with respect to the dreaded semi-autos and to prevent magazines from working properly are recent ones. There has not been nor will there be any effort to confiscate all the guns. It would be too expensive to buy them back and take too many people to search them out and confiscate them. Like most gun controls proposed, they make no effort to separate those who would misuse from those who would not. They just try to make using them more frustrating.
1
Some time from now, someone will figure out that he had been 'different' and parents who didn't want to see that will have ignored signals. Bet his classmates knew things.
7
The furore over this and related incidents will probably abate over the next few weeks. That's not much comfort to the victims' families. I feel that this scenario will repeat itself over and over again until real and effective legislation is passed. I also feel that this needed legislation will not be passed until an innocent ( the victims are always innocent ) family member of some prominent lawmaker is caught up in the carnage. It's a very cynical view I have, I know, but nothing ever seems to get done until the problem hits "home". There are plenty of "wackos" in the country I originate from, the U.K., and they sometimes attack people at random. The difference is that they might be carrying a knife or meat cleaver which, of course, can be lethal weapons in their hands. But their ability to kill on the scale that happens in the US is severely limited. Assault rifles are designed to kill people rapidly. So, why are they available to the public ? They should be available to official military personnel only.
15
"See Something, Say Something". The mother said something--this should've been questioned further by authorities. Neighbors said the kids was strange.
6
@Cindy Covington
Yes, that is the only reason those particular guns exist -- to kill other human beings.
I can't believe that Congress is applauding itself for looking at the possibility of background checks, when it is not just the individual killer that's the problem here, but a gun designed to kill large numbers of people readily available to order and to put in his hands.
When will Congress act to protect the American people instead of their NRA rating? Weapons of war do not belong in anyone's hands, regardless of their "background."
22
The mother’s call is newsworthy. The rest is a whole lot of nothing. We know that excessive publicity about mass shooters can spur on copy cat incidents. The media’s obsession can be terribly costly and is entirely irresponsible.
5
The police get a call from an anonymous mother disturbed over her son's purchase of an AK-47. The police have caller ID. They look up the name, address, check the kid's on-line postings to see if anything corroborates mom's concern. Ten, fifteen minutes? Rocket science? Easier, I suppose, to say "no crime committed, not my department" and go get another cup of coffee.
15
A "RED FLAG" description if ever one was defined! What more does the Congress need to enact legislation. Maybe laws with more teeth.
2
Do you Remember 911? This terrible time now calls for a return to the post 911 methods used to root out the monsters of 911 with the same intensity of that effort to intercept and stop these domestic terrorists. This is terrorism and even has me thinking about not going to a restaurant since the mal-doers target essentially any place or venue where there are people gathered, even now Walmart. I find myself even wondering about a trip to the the post office, laundramat , etc. This is what terrorism is designed to do, to instill fear in people of going to places after an incident like the El Paso massacre.
Now, any dark skinned person is a target, and that inludes about 45% of us. Call your representative or senator and as in Ohio rally last week to DO SOME THING!!
6
This is why red flag laws and other half measures won’t work. Here’s what will work:
BAN ALL ASSAULT WEAPONS.
29
@Avatar Red flag laws can work. And most gun violence is perpetrated with handguns by men. Women are especially at risk if their domestic partner has guns. Her in Florida a man was ordered to surrender all his guns and he didn't. His ex-wife went and collected them and gave them to the police and she was charged with burglary. Never-mind she was in great fear for her life. The felony charges against the woman were eventually dropped.
2
We can’t even agree on what they are let alone figure out how to ban them. If there is no definition there can be no ban. And there are already 10 million out there unregistered. They aren’t going to go away and no one is going to support breaking down doors to get them.
But thanks for playing. When you have another great idea be sure to tell us
1
“It [legally purchasing an AK-47] was one of many moments that family members, former classmates, neighbors and others who crossed paths with the suspect are now scrutinizing as they search for some missed warning sign or omen of the hate-filled massacre that erupted in El Paso...”
Our country has normalized accessibility to military style weapons to the degree that we can’t even see the hypocrisy of such a statement.
8
If buying a mass-killing weapon isn't a symptom of mental illness, what is?
19
It’s always the same: AK rifles, AR 15 rifles... As long as 45 percent (the latest polls show - growing! - support for Trump and his deadly politics) of the American people and their president love guns more than life and are (sorry to say) obviously racist too - nothing will change.
When a civil society accepts a leader who labels a day among grieving families and patients who fight for their live „amazing“, then there is no help.
11
Why is there no discussion of what constitutes the "arms" we have the right to bear? I see no reference in the Second Amendment to "guns," but somehow we have collectively decided that guns are the arms we are entitled to. Since one can be "armed" with a knife, a pipe bomb, a Howitzer or a feather duster, where is the public debate about which weapons (arms) are citizens meant to have? Few argue to allow private individuals to bear flame-throwers, or rocket launchers or heat-seeking missiles. So let's rethink this whole "gun rights" misnomer. If we don't have the right to bear every arm, there is clearly plenty of room to specify which one(s) we do.
21
This guy's "first gun" was an AK-47-style assault rifle? No one saw this as a red flag even in a gun-centric state? Don't most young people start out with a hunting rifle or shotgun or a pistol? It seems to me that, from the first day he purchased that gun that he wasn't going to be hunting anything other than humans.
90
@Cindy Covington Not necessarily a red flag if he was going to get into sport shooting. Either way no one could have known at the time.
@Cindy Covington. Every year one in 10 million people become mass shooters. There are books about mass shootings that some read obsessively. Some sleep with their guns. Some fantasize about guns all the time. A 21 year old buys a semiautomatic and you’re certain he’s a mass shooter. 20-20 hindsight.
2
@Bryce. "Sport shooting" (or hunting) with an semi-automatic weapon doesn't seem like much of a sport. What skill does it take to hit a target with, say, 30 bullets in 15 seconds, besides keeping your finger on the trigger? And what is the point of sport shooting (or hunting) with a semi-auto? What skill is attempting to be perfected? Because the only use for that skill I can imagine is to carpet bomb a target with lethal bullets, insuring death.
2
The United States went to war on the false claim of weapons of mass destruction, these automatic high capacity guns are truly weapons of mass destruction. We should correctly go to war on these weapons, war against the sale and use of these powerful killing machine.
67
@butch Automatic weapons are already heavily regulated. You need special permits to own any automatic weapon. I don't believe there has been a single automatic weapon used in a mass shooting. The Las Vegas guy had the closest thing using a bump stock.
1
Untrue. Filling up the media with hyperbole and framing problems to suit arguments is addressing the problem.
We have a problem with a significant misuse of guns despite having extremely high compliance of gun safety practices among a very great amount of owners. With so many owing guns the likelihood of poor outcomes despite low rates does mean great numbers of terrible results. But we see the same with automobiles. Reducing the misuse as can be done is needed.
But another separate issue is being inserted into the consideration of the problem. Many people feel that liberties which permit harm should be restricted. Trusting people to not allow what they do to harm others is the risk that liberty is founded upon. Is it even reasonable to permit people to do things which could result in great harm to others?
The hate that motivates their use will simply switch to a different weapon and the killing will never stop. You have to address the climate of conservative hate that we live in and change it. Until that is done there are no bandaids that will work.
In the cases of, what we now call mass shootings, I would venture to say there is always a back story. Some one or some organization missed the signs in most if not all the cases. What irks me is how these incidents always get politicized blaming political parties, blaming the President, blaming ideological or ethnic groups. These shooters are very disturbed people who needed help and did not receive it.
Perhaps when Congress returns from vacation they will pass some sort of legislation for stricture gun control or perhaps not. Stricture gun control will not help the mentally ill. I know the argument ..access to guns.....What about the shootings in our inner cities. No one talks about that, that is not headline news or political fodder. Are all those guns legal ? I bet not. Guns are available if you really want one bad enough. Besides...and this is the controversy... killings in our inner cities are black on black crimes and the media and the politicians simple don't care. It pains me to have to say that but it is the truth.
There were people killed at knife point the other day...was hardly mentioned by the media. No political advantages to those killings either. Death by gun fire will consume the airwaves for days. It is good for media business and good for political gain.
It is time to re think ........all lives matter.
12
@Fred
Everything you stated is absolutely true. In the inner city when a family members calls the police to ask for help, the police arrive, fear for their lives, dont listen to bystanders and someone is shot. nothing good comes from the phone call I understand why the mother was hesitant to elaborate on her concerns. She knew once the police becomes involved the unexpected can happen and you become caught up in the justice system.
Corporate greed ,racism are the fundamental issues addressing this country . They go hand in hand, and unless people begin to realize that Wall Street and the policies implemented by the old white GOP they are indirectly promoting class, racial strife/ status. The trickle hate down effect reaches Americans who believed in the American dream and fail to realize that it is not minorities, immigrants holding anyone back but corporate America. The stock market is making money by squeezing the last dime out of Americans. Till we acknowledge greed/racism/class status are tearing the fabric of this country apart and we need to address these three issues otherwise we are going backward at a fast pace.
WE can do this and make America the fair place we know we can be.
2
@Fred
Our nation has had a violent streak since we first stole Native American land and decided it was ok to slaughter the fathers, wives, and children. Yippee-kiyeah!
Have we fessed up to that one yet?
On the other hand, we gave mightily of our own blood to defend Europe and our own against Germany. And then there was Japan...
AND Nagasaki AND Hiroshima...it stopped the war...but did they teach the world anything about the use of horrific violence?...
...
Well, thanks to Republicans anything goes in the line of guns in this country. In addition, what would a mother know about her ill son? Right?
She put two and two together but it didn’t count for anything because we have laws that protect people who might become murderers, and allow innocent people to be murdered.
This is one messed up country.
26
@MIMA. So why didn’t the police do something when she called? We have laws against illegal immigration, but those don’t seem to matter either.
3
@MIMA
I'd add one misguided electorate...
My The Lord give us all the light to see what is evil and what is even worse than that...greed.
1
@Jackson. What could they have done? She didn't seem to be all that worried.
NOBODY should own such a weapon. They are built for only one thing — killing masses of people all at once in war. One can’t even hunt with them because the powerful bullets disintegrate upon contact, shredding and spoiling the meat. They should be banned from civilian ownership.
67
You can hunt with some of them and they are changing the bullets and calibers to making hunting more practical. They have been around so long that they are morphing into true hunting rifles, target rifles, plinking rifles and even pistols. They have become the platform that almost all future firearms will be made from. We could have done something generations ago but now it is too late. These firearms represent a revolution in every aspect of firearms technology and they will be protected by many different industries and interests. The question should really be what is the real problem and how do we solve that?
The real problem is the climate of hate that has come into being in the last 40 years. Tell me how you are going to legislate that away?
It's totally crazy how a weird loner, or anyone but law enforcement or military, can purchase weapons of war. How has our nation devolved into this mass shooting catharsis? I hope democrats seize on the moment and arrest our crazy fixation with weapons of death (not hunting firearms!).
12
@charlie Corcoran You just going to ignore the entire sports shooting scene? Ignoring the reason we have the 2nd amendment guns are used for more than just hunting. You should also do some research on weapons the military use. The rifle used here was no different than any other civilian semi-auto rifle.
The father was a therapist and he and the shooter's mother saw nothing wrong, when everyone else around him saw that he wasn't quite "right", that he was "off", and "isolated"? If I was the father's client, I'd want my money back. Parents never seem to think there's anything wrong with their rotten children.
13
@JL22 The first thing that stood out to me was the "wasn't quite right" and then various other descriptions like strict yes/no answers... being late to school because clothes didn't feel right, not being comfortable in a car for long periods... Well, as the parent of a son on the autism spectrum and acute sensory disorder, this rings dozens of bells for me.
7
@JL22
Not till they kill other people, but they get a lawyer very quickly. Trump is the root of this current madness and we all better wake up because this is just he beginning of the madness.
I am not so sure the comment regarding the fact that the suspect was not listed as part of any club or activity in his high school yearbook (just one year, I believe) has any relevance here--in fact I would even say it is manipulative in that it is stating a non-fact. I get the feeling the writers are trying to subtly imply something about the suspect by choosing to include only this particular observation. What are they trying to convey by presenting this? What does it mean when someone is not in any high school clubs in one given year? Not much. It should have been edited out, in my opinion.
8
@Alicia Zahn I think it's relevant because it highlights that this was a strange individual who was very isolated. It seems like only one person in the article really ever spoke to him in any depth, and most people just recall that he left no impact or was very odd. The majority of people in high school will participate in some clubs or activities. The fact that he did not, added to his strangeness, suggests a decent amount of isolation that probably made it easier for him to embrace more radical ideas.
11
Students are rarely surprised when one of their classmates commits a crime. They know better than anyone which kids are trouble...
3
@Alicia Zahn
Alicia Zahn is absolutely right!
I was not a member of any club or activity in high school, mainly because I had so many outside interests that I never bothered with them. Most of the kids I went to school with were also not similarly involved in such activities. That was 63 years ago, and none of us subsequently became mass murderers.
Better get background checks on all of us pretty quickly now, since we are obviously still a clear and present danger to our Fellow Man (well, those of us who are still alive, anyway).
1
Very telling that the suspect’s family called the police with concerns about the safety of the suspect owning a military style weapon but no concern whatsoever about the suspects motive for wanting to purchase the weapon. His families’ normalization of gun culture and the violence it engenders is frightening and obviously very widespread in the the United States. I would encourage people to read the suspect’s manifesto in order to place this horrible massacre in the proper context.
12
@Bob R Reading the manifesto is exactly what he wants you to do. Why would you want to read the babblings of a crazy person anyway? He is getting the fame and notoriety he wanted. "Military Style" is an ignorant term. We have "Assault Style", "Military Style", "AK Style". This is getting silly.
1
@Brycen
You’re exactly right—I should not have used that term—I know nothing about guns except that the availability of guns all types should be highly restricted. As far as the manifesto I think it is wrong to equate the gunman’s action with mental illness—“...babblings of a crazy person”—the author of the manifesto was evil and racist and a white supremacist for sure but not crazy or mentally ill which is apparent if one reads the manifesto. Stigmatizing the the mentally ill will not be a solution to the epidemic of gun violence in the United States. Gun control is the solution. People suffering from mental illness are much more likely to be the victims of gun violence than the perpetrators—that is a well established and accepted conclusion of law enforcement.
Once again there was a clear warning sign acted on by someone close to the shooter. And once again it was not taken sufficiently seriously.
12
@BCG Does Texas have a red flag law?
When will police actually LISTEN to the warning mothers and take action? It's always about the rights of the shooters.
12
@Patti: The police will actually start to LISTEN when a Red Flag law has passed, giving them the authority to DO SOMETHING. Until that happens, there isn't much the police can do.
21
@Patti Did you read the story? The mother did not give any names, and did not believe her kid to be a threat.
2
So many voices cry out for help and no one is there to listen.
What have we become as a people?
3
@wihiker Heartbreaking isn’t it
Every civilized nation has its share of mentally disturbed people, a large percentage of whom have not been diagnosed. Ours is the only one in which virtually any adult can legally purchase military style weaponry designed for mass killing. Can we PLEASE address the real problem?
39
Hyperbole. Fear driven misrepresentation of facts to elicit a desired response that corresponds to addressing some dreadful possibility.
AR-15 and guns like them are not produced to allow people to kill other people. They are owned in great numbers but are rarely used to shoot people. They are rarely used for gun violence. They fire rifle bullets at the speed of a person being able to squeeze off rounds with less recoil than other rifles.
Take a psychological test before buying a weapon? That would not be a bad idea. But who is going to judge those tests?
The insanity of our country is captured in the mother’s call to the police. Any intellectually honest person would conclude that military grade weapons should not be freely available to civilians.
27
Police want to know how and when he became "radicalized." He wasn't. He was just morally lost and subject to our culture. Mental illness, as we define it, doesn't fit; radicalized doesn't fit. The kid seems to have been unknown to anyone, including himself and maybe his mother. Like a 2-year old acting out (like our President) he was invisible in the world until he went way out of bounds. We need to learn to see the invisible young men and help them see themselves.
17
@R. Bartlett
Nah, ISIS and white supremecists both have the same playbook these days; radicalize through the internet and social media to prompt lone wolf action. He posted a manifesto on a radicalized message board. He'd been there before, probably frequently. He was radicalized in that network. "Off" people often spend much time on the internet these days.
3
For future reference, whenever a mother or other close relative calls the police concerned about somebody acquiring an assault rifle, take it seriously and check it out. Hopefully, more and more states will pass legislation permitting the laws to take guns from dangerous people through seizure and civil enforcement.
77
@EJS- unfortunately, despite a mother's concerns about a high-powered, rapid-shooting military-style weapon in the hands of her son didn't warrant any preventative action from police because they are legal to own. She did not mention her son or that he was potentially dangerous to himself or others. She stopped short of a true warning of what might happen.
9
@ibivi What do you mean she didn’t mention her son. I’m trying to imagine such a conversation. “Hello, is this the police? Someone I know just bought a high powered assault rifle and I’m concerned”. Police “Miss, it’s perfectly legal, nothing to worry about”. Not who is this person and why are you concerned? Incredible! Seems she did “mention” him but forgot the part about him being her son and if mom is concerned the police should be too.
4
@ibivi How many words are you going to add to the gun?
"rapid-shooting" - It shoots just as fast as any other semi-auto weapon.
"military-style" - what makes it military style? The look?
Anyone who purchases of
assault weapon type weapons, bump stocks or high capacity magazines including those purchased online would have to have a federal license, not just background checks, but a license. Similar to “conceal and carry.”
Make it a felony to sell a assault weapon, bump stocks or high capacity magazines to anyone who does not have a license.
Enact so called Red Flag laws in every state.
Leave the rest of us gun owners alone.
29
@SMS
Oh yes. Do exactly as you say. We wouldn’t want “the rest of you gun owners” to be inconvenienced in any way. Always individual wants over the collective good.
18
@SMS
Why do people want assault rifles? The weapons are not made for hunting, only for killing a large number of people in the shortest time. Even the ammunition is made to guaranty to really kill the victim with very little chance to survive.
Wanting such an expensive weapon alone is crazy and a sign of danger.
20
@LM I agree with you but have to point out that you live in a country i.e. the USA unlike other democratic countries (like my own - Canada) where throughout your history the rights of the individual have always been the norm. Somewhat off topic this is the main reason your country does not enjoy universal health care like the rest of the world. The ideology of individualism is often expressed in statements by American citizens "why should I (who is healthy, does not smoke, exercises etc) have to pay for the health care of my neighbour who is obese, does not exercise and smokes?"
1
They police could have said,"What is it about your son that makes you feel he is too immature to have this gun?" The mother might have then described his behaviors, his lack of a job, friends, excessive time on the computer, etc. Perhaps that information would have raised an alert in the policeman's mind and he might have then asked for a name at least.
While we never want to make the shooter more important than the victims, so many of these shooters exhibit similar behaviors so it's important to know what was happening in the shooter's life before he decided to take such violent action. Socially isolated, non-verbal, disengaged males who spend a lot of time online and who also buy assault rifles are clearly at risk individuals. It's time we all pay more attention and if we see something, or intuitively feel something is not right, we must say something.
51
Too many young men with too much time on their hands. Unemployed dropouts who somehow have enough money to acquire weapons, vehicles, and computers.
We need to raise the legal age to buy firearms. We need to make these assault style rifles impossible to buy. And we need to put some teeth in background checks.
1
"... the police told her that, according to the law, her son was allowed to have the weapon. "
Indeed, at least for now this sort of killing spree is the continuing price some have deemed acceptable in order for that quote from the article to remain true. The argument would seem to be that this is what the Founders intended - that the words "well regulated" were written into our Constitution thoughtlessly and without any purpose whatsoever.
41
I often wonder what "well regulated" means to gun advocates who take the second amendment so seriously. Obviously not much....
1
I cannot get past " In the weeks before a gunman killed 22 people in a devastating rampage at an El Paso Walmart, the suspect’s mother called the police concerned about whether her 21-year-old son was mature or experienced enough for the powerful AK-style rifle he had ordered." How can anyone just order a gun like this??? And why would the police not check out the mothers concern by asking questions?? Just because Texas has a gun culture? After all that has happened since Columbine, I would think this country would be on red alert with a call like this. We really are in deep trouble with the second amendment.
120
You can’t order any gun like this. You can only have a gun delivered to a local FFL3 licensed gun store where you personally go to pick it up. And before they give it to you you must show ID and fill out several federal forms as well as pass a background check. He acted normal, was over 21, and had no criminal or psychiatric record so he got it.
I think they should have an extra question on those forms: “do you still live with your mother?” And if you do they should call her to get permission. I know this does not fit into our strange legal system, but mothers often do know best and I think they should be involved. Now tell that to the Republicans.
2
Republicans hide behind a facade of community, decency, responsibility, and respectability but believe that virtually anyone has the right to own weapons of war.
35
Please, SR, as above, what concretely have Democrats of any administration done to limit access to military-grade assault weapons?
1
"One of the fundamental questions of the shooting is still unanswered: how and when the suspect became radicalized."
Until further evidence is uncovered, it is irresponsible to say this guy was "radicalized." Radical thought and behavior does not include shooting a bunch of innocent people. Clearly he had mental issues.
4
@99percent
He may have had some mental issues, but seemed to be a functional, if not an energetic, person. He subscribed to a violent, hate-filled political ideology—that is not the same as mental illness. The fact that he was able to procure an assault weapon made all the difference between having hateful ideas and acting on those hateful ideas. Time to get rid of assault weapons and high capacity magazines. They are killing machines that should be outlawed.
23
@Sarah What is an "Assault Weapon"? Aside from the vague description that can cover every single gun in America, high capacity magazines are relatively easy to make. Anyone planning an attack wont have trouble acquiring them even if you could ban them.
1
@99percent
He posted online a document espousing extreme racist opinions. Seems pretty clear he was radicalized.
1
Parents of mentally ill persons need to hold themselves and their children to a higher standard. The shooter was known to have "issues," was not becoming independent and moving towards a career/self-sufficiency, and was living with his grandparents (grandparents are unsung heroes as well as "dumping grounds."). "Radicalized." Come on...he had been living in a world of self-importance, hate, and retaliation for a long time. He was a bomb waiting to go off. And, he did. If you have a child of any age who is "off" - or not - and he/she is buying an assault weapon - an informational call to the police is a waste of time. Get to the point...that person should not have a gun and something bad is going to happen. You owe it to your child. You owe it to yourself. You owe it to us. When you fail to act deliberately, this is what we all get in the end.
29
@Patricia The shooter is 21 years old. Nobody, not even his parents can stop him from purchasing that weapon. It is the availability of such weaponry which must be addressed.
15
@Patricia
While we all want a simple answer to what went horribly wrong with this shooter, the parents cannot be blamed or held responsible for actions of their legally adult son.
He'd already left home. Legally the parents cannot do much, the police cannot follow-up on a basically anonymous call regarding vague concerns. "Maturity" isn't a requirement for buying a weapon of mass murder in this country -- in fact, very very little is.
Legally and morally you cannot investigate or limit every 'odd, loner, awkward, solitary person' "interested in conservative politics" who's never been in trouble before.
Allowing the sale of these for-massive-profit, mass murder weapons in this country IS the problem.
19
@Patricia
Yes! The Santa Barbara shooter’s mom begged the police to take her son’s gun, but they said they couldn’t. So it seems whether or not the parents play coy or plead with the cops that bad things are about to happen, the police do nothing. Unless they see a black twelve year old with a toy gun. Then they are free to act with lethal force apparently.
6
That’s the trouble with how the NRA and the GOP have defined the 2nd Amendment. It allows anyone the right to a firearm. The mass murders' will continue until society decides differently.
27
@James You mean how the founders wrote the 2nd amendment? We have documentation of their views and their opinions on the second amendment. Its not that we are interpreting it wrong, its how it was written.
Since this guy did not work, who provided the funds to buy this automatic weapon? Just like many of these other disaffected young men with hostility towards others, he had a family supporting him both in positive (Jr. Colllege) and negative ($ for weapons). This is true of Adam Lanza, Southerland Springs killer and Parkland Killer amongst others. Families should not provide funds for weapons.
42
In the Country of Death, this is the equivalent of calling the police because you found your 16 year old son drinking beer.
26
The median income in Allen Texas is over $100,000 a year. These people are the djt crowd who do not believe that the law applies to them. Well, it does. The insanity defense or djt made me do it should not get this murderer off of death row. djt intentionally set the stage for this white nationalism massacre and he continues to run campaign ads and twitter feeds that continue the racist hate that he is promoting as his base amplifier for the next election.
Get the story straight. The republican party supports this activity and it is they alone who developed and nurtured the southern strategy. They are unpatriotic.
96
@kirk - Absolutely! This Republican mindset has been evolving for decades!
22
This has absolutely nothing to do with the Southern Strategy or the city of Allen. Allen is not a Southern-style city. It's a fast-growing suburb where people from other parts of the country move to for jobs in Allen or other nearby suburbs. And since the Trump era, it hasn't been a red city but more of a 50/50 voting city. It's not the "DJT crowd" at all.
@kirk This has nothing to do with the Southern Strategy or the community of Allen itself. Allen almost went Democratic in 2018, and the city where Crusius went to high school, Plano, was indeed a blue city in last year's election.
This is all about the ease of civilian access to weapons of war in the United States and the empowerment of racists in the Donald Trump era. Has nothing to do with Allen, Texas or even Crusius' family, which all signs point to not being on his side politically.
I own guns and I hunt, my brother is a master guide who Loads his own shells.
In responsible, developed countries gun ownership is a privilege. A single shot rifle can be obtained fairly easily with training. Then double shotguns then handguns again after training then guns with a clip, and finally an assault rifle after a decade of good use, safe use with all the other firearms.
19
@James Siegel
While I agree that ownership of a gun should be a privilege, I can't help wondering why would a civilian ever need to have an assault rifle. Duck hunting?
42
@James Siegel
Just think of the name of the gun— assault rifle— and it tells you its purpose. And it’s not hunting or target practice.
5
@James Siegel You used the term "Assualt Rifle". Why? As someone who apparently knows about guns why would you use such vague terminology that covers any semi-auto gun. Apart from that "developed" countries don't have a 2nd Amendment.
What did the police tell her? That the purchase was legal and there was nothing to worry about? How many calls do police get from mothers worried about gun purchases that this would not concern them? Did she ignore future signs based on the response of the police? And I have more questions.
50
@Betty,
The police can't do a thing if a law hasn't been broken. I say the mother ignored the signs and the answer from the police allowed her to let herself off the hook.
10
@JL22
In all honesty, I think this mother was in over her head given the nature of the weapon and it's origin. However, the cops shouldn't have been. They should have informed her about the potential a weapon like it has.
Or did she fear her son for some reason? Or worry that, should she question him too closely he might become verbally abusive or worse.
At least she should have questioned her son more closely, or called her son's father for advise, too. Or perhaps she has been afraid of the turns her son has taken in recent weeks or months and maybe even feared for her own safety...
But the cops?
Give their limp assistance, could they also be under pressure, too, say...from the NRA? or a senior officer somewhere who was known to be a fanatic when it comes to gun rights.
Plainly, however, we don't know enough. But my bet is someone she called took a dive rather than risk overstepping in someone's eyes...
1
Mention is made several times in the article about how this young person seemed to always be alone and, apparently, “didn’t want to be bothered “. Without making apologies for him in any way, has anyone considered that maybe he was just a very introverted type of person and preferred his alone time to the company of others. It also sounds like he had sensory or maybe even autistic issues. We can armchair quarterback all we want now that the damage is done, but my point is, don’t write someone off just because they appear standoffish or solitary. There is nothing wrong with being an introvert. However, when you ignore the introvert like he or she doesn’t exist, you are not doing them or yourself any favors. Inclusion is so important, at least give that solitary person you pass in the hall every day a smile and a nod as you pass. You might just make their day. And save a life. Or several.
27
Yes, let us put the onus of preventing another mass shooting on to the children by telling them to be nicer instead of on the legislators who have the power to make stricter gun laws but won’t.
35
@A Bird In The Hand
I acted kindly to a boy in high school who was new to the district and seemed quiet and off by simply saying, “I like your t-shirt,” and that one quick comment motivated him to stalk my twin sister (I guess he confused us). He developed an obsession with her, claiming he wanted to kill himself or kill us all at one point. So I DO NOT encourage people, particularly girls, to go out of their way to be nice to those boys who seem off. I don’t mean they have to ignore or bully kids like Patrick, but I do not want kids to put themselves in dangerous positions. There is also a big difference between introvert and mental illness. People who are introverts are not usually described as “off.”
21
@A Bird In The Hand, since I was always a bit of nerd myself, I always had these weird friends who I appreciated a lot. I could discuss books and movies that nobody else seems to bother. However, I concede that sometimes it is difficult to connect and we can make mistakes. Sometimes I just gave up because nothing seemed to work to establish a link. Nevertheless - I agree - we should try.
4
A normal family, no criminal background, awkward but not obviously dangerous, this guy did not seem to be a risk. What would have prevented him from buying this weapon of war?
Once one of my employees shot and killed 2 random people in a public park before being killed by police. What shook me deeply was that this man seemed completely normal. He'd worked for us for years, he was married, people liked him. Thank God he didn't have an automatic weapon.
Background checks and a working database system are important but banning the sale of weapons of war is also imperative.
287
mom: i'm just worried that my son is too young, too immature and has no idea how to responsibly handle a powerful weapon like that.
police: well, ma'am, you may want to have a talk with your son, but under the law, everything is fine.
not the actual conversation, but it could have been. of course we now know that everything was not fine. no civilian should have these military grade weapons. keeping them out of the hands of those under 26 should be the minimum compromise. the current law is nuts and we all know it.....
100
@GDB,
Why should even people older than 26 years old have military grade assault weapons? What purpose do they serve except to kill people in large numbers?
11
I know this sounds sexist but what about Dad? Why not get him involved? Or an uncle, or a male neighbor who likes to hunt. A boy this age needs a male figure to teach him how to handle a firearm and teach him the rules of safety and respect that go with it. And he needs to be under the supervision of a male who can take the gun away from him if he does not seen capable of using it safely. That is not something a mother can do or should have to do. Where are the men? Where are the mentors for our young male population? Why are they lost and alone? What has happened to the traditional role of men in this society?
1
This was all about Texas, the people who elected Ted Cruz. When notified by the mother, who had concern that her son should not have such a weapon, the police said that it was ok in Texas. No need at all to evaluate whether he had the temperament or maturity to own a military weapon. And it is insanity that these guns remain legal in our so called civilized society. It is sin against humanity. The NRA and the Republican party have blood on their hands for these deaths. It will be left to god to judge them.
85
@USS Johnston
Well 'said' -- except for the implicit supposition that there might be a proper temperament 'for' ownership or possession of mass-murder instruments.
And it seems to me that only a desperate
immaturity could 'support' any desire to own or possess those things.
18
@USS Johnston, This isn't "all about Texas". While I applaud NJ for some of the most restrictive gun laws in the country, this isn't "all about Texas".
It's all about Mitch McConnell and many other Senators, including Sanders, receiving a boat load of money and political support in the form of propaganda from the NRA - from all over the country in the House and the Senate, and with some exceptions, the money went to Republicans - all across the U.S.
8
@USS Johnston No, this is NOT all about Texas. This is all about the good old USA.
5
“It was in no way, shape or form something that was out of concern of him being a threat.”
How many mothers call law enforcement on their adult children if they don't really believe they are a threat? If Red Flag laws are to be effective, the threshold for action needs to be much lower. This is akin to calling 911 about an erratic drunk driver only to be told "Until they cause an accident, there isn't much we can do."
96
@JKN, And today, that's what the law says. The police had no choice but to tell the mother that what her son was doing wasn't illegal. That's the law. They're supposed to follow it.
So much for "red flags" though.
6
“Cop:I’m sorry, until your son commits a crime there is nothing we can do.
Mom: But I think he is going to kill a lot of people!
Cop: I’m sorry, but your concerns are not enough. But rest assured that if he does kill a lot of people we will spring into action and quickly arrest him.
Mom: And I suppose you will want to be applauded for your brave work?
Cop: Yes. We are in the middle of a fund drive now so we can buy more bullet proof vests to protect our guys when they bring these shooters down. Would you like to make a donation?
Mom: No thank you. I am trying to stop a crime before it is committed.
Cop: That’s not our job but I hope you find someone who can help you. Maybe you can go on the Internet and start a go fund me page to help to stop crimes.
Mom: Or maybe I can move to another country that is safer?
Cop: If you don’t love America enough to stay here and die I can’t help you. Goodbye.”
Weak gun laws enable gun murder. The weaker the gun laws, the more gun deaths. Combine this with a president that divides Americans by labeling some as “enemies” and the result is predictable.
59
Calling the police about your own son is a big red warning flag. People don’t do that unless they have experienced or are fearful of violent behavior. We can only wish she had taken it farther.
71
@Bill
Where could she have taken it to? We can only wish there was something else that could have been done. Because there wasn't.
10
@Bill
Can't help but wonder if there was more to her thinking than just his immaturity and lack of experience. Maybe she did suspect that something was off about his behavior that she didn't really want to admit. Perhaps it was more about her intuition than her thinking. Sometimes, you just sense that something isn't right but you can't say why exactly.
14
@Bill She was afraid. Many parents are afraid of their children or the consequences of disciplining their children. I have a friend in law enforcement who used to be very jovial. She’s now bitter. Fifty percent of her calls are from parents who need her to speak their children. She’s not a social worker. Neither are educators. Go to any hotel or airport, you’ll see children beside parents who are unwilling to discipline their children. Ideologies will always be with us. Parenting styles are a problem alongside ideologies. Parenting styles, sadly are also a response to, ironically, the law (and our changing culture). Back in my day, a parent would yank you up in a minute. Now they call the police for help because they are afraid of social services. And everyone mentioned is overwhelmed: cops, parents, social workers, teachers and the kids. It’s so sad.
18
Crusius obviously had some mental issues -- as do we all. That just underlines how obsolete is the pre-scientific, religious concept of free will that our courts are still based upon (see "For the law, neuroscience changes nothing and everything," Joshua Greene and Jonathan Cohen, Phil. Trans. R. Soc. Lond. B [2004] 359, 1775–1785). Instead of destroying Crusius, something that might actually save lives in the future would be if media took up the practice of always mentioning in stories on shootings the name of the CEO of the manufacturer of the gun used.
48
Naming the CEO of the gun manufacturer--each time this happens--is an eXcellent idea. Naming the precise store that sold it would also be a good idea, then setting up a Don't Give These Guys Your Money picket line for weeks or months might get their attention. So much of this is just about money, not rights.
Why is it even legal to buy guns or bullets online? Making a wannabe shooter show his face and his gun license would stop many of the younger ones.
2
So many of these mass murderers are exactly how family members and acquaintances in this article describe this one. They are simply loners or oddballs but importantly individuals without a history of violence or mental illness. Thus background checks will not harm sales of mass murdering machines (the NRA should love Mitch McConnell’s chess play) and will not prevent the next attack on our freedom. Nothing real will happen until the Senate is Democratic.
52
Even after the Senate is Democratic we will have this problem because the Democrats are idiots. They will target the wrong things and pass the wrong legislation and will create a tidal wave of resentment against them that will take them back out of power and return the Republicans who will quickly repeal everything they did. We have seen this pattern many times.
We need the Senate in the hands of a new party something like the New Deal Democrats of the 1930’s and nothing like today’s Democrats. That kind of party can pass realistic legislation that targets the fear that causes gun violence. Until then we are doomed.
So baffled by Republicans insistence that “it’s not the guns”, it’s never about the guns. Now It’s video games, & mental illness. Both are completely debunked if anyone looks @ the statistics. And what purchasing a “military -style weapon” is less dangerous that a video game? Please.
Thought of Frank Meeink while reading this article, he started “life after hate” a nonprofit that helps individuals who want to leave a lifestyle of hatred & violence. FYI-This program was defunded by the trump administration-This man was helping people leave hate groups!
And about mental illness being one of the causes, how’s the GOP doing on that one? Oh, the republicans want to gut our mental health coverage. Well isn’t that interesting.
All the GOP cares about is money. a.k.a.donors. Sure they are praying right now for a distraction-We must hold this issue front & center.
33
@Kate S Don't be baffled by Republicans insistence" its not the guns" They are being paid BIG MONEY to say that. The bigger question is how much money does it take to turn your back on your country!!!
3
@Camilla Blair
Perhaps the only way to get the Republicans to vote for reasonable gun laws is for the rest of us to take up collections and pay the Republicans more money than the NRA does. The bottom line is, the system is broken. Chief Justice Roberts of the Supreme court wrote and passed the Citizens United law that allows anyone to secretly pay off legislators to pass laws they want, but the people don't. If democracy isn't dead yet it will be soon.
The Republican Party is a hate group. Good luck getting them limit other hate groups.
If she saw her child was drunk and about to drive would she let him get in the car?
If the mother had these concerns why didn’t she put a lock on the gun and keep the key or simply take the gun away and put it in the safe?
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@Annie Why aren’t there stronger laws that allow law enforcement to remove guns from dangerous people?
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@Annie
He's 21. It would have been theft.
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Because he was 21 and an adult. Not so simple to take anything away from him. Obviously.
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Stop nibbling at the edges. The Second Amendment needs to be repealed. How many more thousands must die before we realize that America cannot have guns?
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@2020 Voter Just regulate it like they just did in California, outlawing assault rifles was part of it.
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@2020 Voter
Only 3 countries in the world have guns in their constitutions: USA, Mexico and Guatemala. In the latter two I understand gun ownership is highly regulated.
In Colorado hunting is highly regulated and no one complains. Where, when, number and type of animals and type of weapon are all spelled out. There are harsh penalties for breaking hunting laws. Why can’t we regulate all weapons, especially those aptly named assault rifles?
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@2020 Voter, No imperative need to take away hunting rifles which have some legitimate purposes. Most people reasonably objecting to a universal ban have those guns in mind.
Automatic and semiautomatid rifles should be banned from private ownership. Pistols should either be banned from private ownership or very restrictively licensed as they are now in NYC . [The pistols that are in private hands here now almost entirely come in illegally from other states.]
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In MA, before a person is granted a firearms permit they must be interviewed by their local police chief and submit typed letters of recommendation, among other things like fingerprints, proof of a safety course, etc. If a person is rejected locally they can appeal to a state board. According to the local paper, here in a very tightly packed city, very few applicants are denied.
I know that there are still guns in MA that aren’t registered. I know that this does stop people from bring in guns from out of state. I know, and I fear, that this may not stop a determined shooter here.
But had the police in Allen TX had the same public health and law enforcement tools as the police in here MA 22 people in El Paso might not have been shot to death in that Walmart.
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I'm wondering where were the school's guidance counselors? In some ways, did the school fail him by not noticing?
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@Kevin Sure but it's not ok
@Kevin'
I am wondering where his therapist father was.
I am wondering where his nurse mother was.
And even the twin sister.
Both of them should have recognized his high school behavior as described in this article as something that was not normal teen age behavior.
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@Kevin - What could/should the school have done? As a school counselor, I frequently hear threats which are documented. Often the students making these threats are receiving services. His father was a clinician. What do you recommend the school should have done?
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These mass shootings are followed by lengthy investigations where more is learned about the shooter, their motives, their circumstances.
For what?
What has been done with what is learned? Aside from ruling out accomplices, nothing.
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@LB
The findings help us to blame the killing on video games. Or divorced parents, or shyness, or social media, or anything in the world other than guns.
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For ratings. All the media make money investigating these backgrounds and offering opinions about what should be done. They need the shootings to happen as much as right wing politicians do.
Down time. Are the benefits and requirements of our lifestyles over riding our need for each other and the need for time alone? Of course we need to stay connected, working our way through our busy daily lives, but is there a place where we lose ourselves and each other in today's world? We are all devastated by the loss of human life and potential as a result of individuals among us who aren't with us, but carry out these crimes against us. Are the mechanisms necessary for caring for each other in place, fully funded, and capable? Do we realize the benefit for downtime and make sure it happens? Time away from our struggle to survive or make our way so that we can reset and orient ourselves towards goals and ideas of benefit to ourselves and others. Do we make time to likewise to do so for those around us? Regardless as to origin, it really does take a village to nurture human life. If we cannot or will not seek a better self in ourselves and for others, and instead believe messages and ideas that work to divide and weaken people, and then easily make available weapons for killing people, we can expect more of the 17 mass shootings so far 2019.
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Gun control please. This guys own mother, who he appeared to be living with, doubted his ability to safely handle a gun. And the police said, ‘sorry ain’t nothing we can do about it’. Sick!
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@Sssur Hm. I read the story. Must have missed the part where the police said "sorry ain't nothing we can do about it". We don't know what the conversation was, so why blame the police for this?
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@Sarah
The point, I think, is that there was nothing that the police could do about it. Surely they must have said that, in so many words—what else could they possibly have said?
They might have said some other things as well, but that's beside the point.
The bottom line is that he had the legal right to buy, to own, and to "bear" this gun, i.e. this absurd instrument for killing.
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"...the mother did not raise concerns that her son, Patrick Crusius, was a danger to others..."
Of course she didn't. Unless the danger to others were perfectly clear and imminent, she wouldn't. And she tried to protect her son's anonymity. She did what any good mother would do.
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...except take away the assault weapon. Her son was living in her house....?
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Of course the mother had concerns! She called the police when he ordered that killing machine.
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To be blunt, that isn’t what a good mother would do. Her behavior is a study in (understandable) cognitive dissonance, which put the public in profound danger.
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A policy of 'hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil" will only lead to more evil. Silence has never solved the problem but instead allowed it to fester and spread. We need more "jaw, jaw" and less shooting.
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This answers everything you need to know about why we need stricter gun control laws.
The police said to the killer’s mother that her 19 year old son could legally purchase a military style rifle. Apparently with no regard to his fitness to own such a powerful weapon.
If she was concerned about her son’s fitness, given his age, maturity and perhaps mental capacity, then we all should be doubly concerned about the easy access of guns in our society, especially for people that are not fit.
Guns are not a game, they should be controlled. Just as any other dangerous substance.
If you need a license to drive a moving vehicle, you need a license to own a gun, that delivers high speed bullets.
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Guns, as in this event, shouldn’t be compared to cars. They should be compared to drugs. They are an addiction, a misguided need, psychological protection from bogus fear.
Like the opioid makers, the gun makers feed the need, and add more fear.
And what is it that we truly need to fear?
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Except that getting a license in the US is far too easy. Take a look at what it takes in Europe.
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@Andrew B "no regard for his fitness"
No one is "fit" to own a weapon that has the sole purpose of slaughtering human beings.
This country is insane.
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