Trump's environmental policies will be bad for the Great Lakes.
5
10,000 lies and counting and the embrace does not falter...as this man radicalizes another fringe lunatic with his repetitive hate speech. Searing the conscious of his followers to normalize insults and slander. Remember his campaign was about how broken and terrible America was? And he alone was the savior? Remember Tree of life? Remember the mail bombs?
3
Oh man this makes me ashamed to be from Michigan. We're not all bad here, I promise.
7
This is why I'm uncomfortable (as a liberal) in liberals throwing around accusations of racism and sexism like confetti. People don't want to see themselves that way, and don't often think of themselves that way, either. A few will take pride in it, but charging so many people with what is a serious sin isn't good PR. It will cause a backlash out of self-protection and defiance, and divert their attention from policies that might be of great benefit to them. If you dehumanise everyone, don't expect a sympathetic ear. The left needs to moderate their tone and save the heavy guns for *individuals* who deserve it, not vast swaths of strangers.
9
Racism is a like cockroach that carries all types of disease. When it rears its ugly head step on it.
7
To voting constituents of "The Squad" - Please urge them to focus solely on defeating Trump. Getting only 10 percent of Trump supporters to reconsider may end in his defeat, but to them, the Squad's rhetoric only fires them up.
2
There is an old Eskimo saying: "Respect your adversary." Mr. Trump does not. All the more reason why the Democrats should.
The bigger the Democrats' big tent, the more ideas it will contain -- both moderate and progressive, maybe even a few conservative ones. The best and most practical should make it into the platform.
Racism is not an idea, it is a mind set. It can and should be left out of the tent. So pitch the tent on the high ground, as Michelle Obama has wisely counseled. Just watch what will happen then.
1
"Asked about the Democrats, he said he once worked in a factory in Romania where he had observed the Communist system. 'No thanks,' he said."
That is an argument devoid of evidence and even logic! What do Democrats have to do with communists? Democrats don't advocate communism, one-tenth as much as republicans advocate fascism!
Right now, some Democrats are advocating DEMOCRATIC SOCIALISM, which has virtually nothing in common with communism. In fact, the purpose of our "socialism" (which is not even real socialism, as it rejects Marx AND totalitarianism) is to achieve better economic lives for ALL Americans!
MANY republicans, at the same time, are joined in a gigantic push towards fascism, led by a POTUS who wants to be a dictator! Talk about un-American!
And THAT would be the worst disaster that could possibly befall this country.
7
DT was looking to identify the Democrats as being radical leftists and he probably would have made Bernie or Warren that face with their policies. But when AOC decided to say that Nancy Pelosi was disrespectful and a racist DT decided that the Squad would be much better candidate. They responded and now there are people I talk to who would never vote for Trump but who also have no fondness for The Squad. Case in point: AOC in the polls was blamed for Amazon not opening HQ2 in LIC NY when a majority of the voters were for it.
5
All the Democratic candidates and the DNC needs to read and fully assimilate this article. There are voters who turn blind eyes to the fact that in the least three years the United States has failed refugees. We used to be at the top of the list of nurturing countries and Trump has changed this. We call refugees from South America whose dictators trained with the help of the American military to enslave or kill their own people. Blind eyes do not change these facts. The neediest refugees come from Syria, a country we tried to change , helped create a total disaster, and now Trump doesn't want the refugees from Syria either.
To these voters, I say covering your eyes does not make you blind. The images will return with shame.
To the candidates and the DNC: Go after these voters!!!!!
3
Those Michigan voters are FOOLS. They should know better than to believe what Trump tells them! They KNOW that he tells (virtually) nothing but lies!
They SHOULD be able to hear what "the Squad" is actually saying, know that all they are doing is representing the interests of their constituencies. They are in fact addressing real issues, which white America ignores, or at very least neglects...
They have an absolute right, as Americans and as Congresspersons, to raise those issues and... there is absolutely NOTHING anti-American about them, what they are doing or how they are doing it.
In fact, "the Squad" is far more "American," i.e. representative of American values, than ANY Republican in Congress, and their behavior is INFINITELY more appropriate than that of the POTUS!
9
Please stop accusing Trump of telling these women to" go back where they came from". I am sure you and your fellow journalists read the full quote and are well aware his meaning was far from what you insist on implying. You are only giving credence to those of us who distrust the media.
4
@Linda
If you think Trump didn't choreograph this entire controversy, you are naive enough to pay for a course at Trump University, expecting to become a real estate magnate overnight.
6
Even those who don't see Trump as a racist can't deny that he is a bigot.
3
DT has negative views about anyone different from himself. And he is a malevolent politician who, as Cory Booker points out, is worse than a racist: he stokes racial animosity and misunderstanding to divide us and get votes. And the Democrats are playing into his hands by crying “racism” about his comments about the Squad. Un-American, yes. Xenophobic, yes. Racist? Well, maybe. He’s delighted that his statements are called racist. He knows it will get votes from people who are so frustrated about cries of racism, cries they consider bogus, that they are happy to vote for a lying, cheating, corrupt president in order to vote against another cry of racism. WE MUST PUT OURSELVES IN THEIR SHOES. What do they think when they see Michael Brown of Ferguson roughing up a shop-keeper half his size and then probably attacking a cop who yelled at him to get out of the road, aspects which are rarely, if ever, acknowledged? They may agree it’s tragic that he lost his life, but they don’t see him as an innocent victim targeted because he was black. NYT has also done its part, publishing articles by Professor George Yancey saying that every white person is a racist! Weak-minded people can’t absorb that stuff: they can’t say, “That’s off base, but let’s keep moving forward towards acceptance of diversity. Let rabble-rousers say what they want, but I will move towards fairness.” They want “false” cries to stop, they want a way to vote against it. I pray that the Democrats can figure it out.
2
No accounting for the stupidity of the American voter. Ignorant and ill informed fueled by Trump bigotry and race baiting. What his supporters cannot answer is how their lives are better under Trump. They have no response. It is sad how do many lemmings buy his act.
8
Didn't read this article, is the answer "yes, they're racists and don't mind a racist President?"
5
Stale mate, President Trump is re-elected in 2020...
Why you might ask.. well figure it out yourself since you have the talent to determine that every person that voted for the President in 2016 is a racist, then you should be able to determine the answer...
Too bad we dont have a Senator McCain. he'd say no mam... or no sir and educate. These views come from when and where, its 2019 last I saw on my my calendar.
3
“They happen to be black or colored,” Dennis Kovach, 82, said of the women, as he watered the lawn of his home near the lake this weekend.
Colored? Um, yeah, he's racist.
5
@truth And what does NAACP stand for?
5
Perhaps, this disturbing revelation that a surprising number of people are still in Trumps's corner, in spite of his outrageous racist remarks, will serve as a wake-up call for the Democrats on the far-left.
A candidate who has checked all the boxes in terms of M4A, immigration, social justice, and equality may be the ideal, but winning is better. As we saw in 2000 and 2016, when Al Gore and Hillary Clinton lost because they didn't meet all of the leftist criteria, really bad stuff can happen if one insists on the perfect rather than the pragmatic.
4
Now do "Blue" Michigan.
4
Trump’s managed to intoxicate into submission an emotionally & economically vulnerable segment of the populace that’s been sort of left behind for awhile now. Getting to that state of left behind-ness can be attributed to many different reasons one of which is our own government & businesses not preparing our workforce for the impact of globalization, unlike Germany as identified in this Forbes piece:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/stevedenning/2016/12/05/could-donald-trump-solve-the-real-jobs-problem/amp/
And then there was the FCC’s abolition of the Fairness Doctrine:
https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_58b33175e4b0658fc20f96f6/amp
that may have helped contribute to the anesthetization of the part of the brain that distinguishes false from truth.
Enter FOX ‘News’ & the cast of divisive radio & website characters to fill the minds of the angry & resentful.
And since our legislative branch of government has been taken over by extremists & obstructionists, where compromise is now a foul concept as seen day in & day out by the behavior of Know Nothing Senate Republicans, our government is no longer working to protect the general welfare of all the people of these United States as required in Article I, section 8 of the U. S. Constitution.
These are a few reason why we’ve got large segments of the population that don’t trust government or even their neighbors these days.
Beyond Sad.
4
@KeepCalmCarryOn
"Trump’s managed to intoxicate into submission an emotionally & economically vulnerable segment of the populace that’s been sort of left behind for awhile now."
Driving a pickup doesn't make a person working class; neither does having a college degree exclude one from the working class. There are plenty of college-educated people struggling to get by in low wage jobs in high-cost cities, and plenty of (mostly) older white men without a college degree who have had successful careers and sent their own kids to college .
Trump voters were considerably better off than Clinton voters in terms of income. If you expand that to include wealth, the gap widens, because white families have more wealth than non-whites, few of whom voted for Trump. That doesn't mean that all Trump voters were well off; what it does mean is that the working class is not actually represented well among Trump voters. And a large number of working class and low-income people didn't vote for either candidate.
2
That "crime infested" place AOC should go backto is the same "crime infested place" Trump comes from...... Queens NY. What an insult to the people of Queens!
8
do they really think Trump is doing something. it is the longest period of inaction in this country since world war II. No plan for the future, no plan for the incoming changes. another 4 year of this administration and not only China but Europe will dominate America. so many outside the United States are rejoicing, it is dumbfounding anyone would vote for him. in a competitive world like this, you can't afford Trump.
6
Racists are not limited to the South.
5
Shame on the POTUSA. The last time we were this divided was 1861-1865.
2
"The poll, commissioned by the progressive campaign finance reform organization End Citizens United, found that a generic Democratic presidential candidate beats Mr. Trump by only 2 points in these counties, 48 percent to 46 percent."
Presenting this as good news for Trump is rather odd considering that Trump won that county by 12 points in 2016.
2
I think those of us on the left have lost credibility with an increasingly large portion of the electorate. Calls or implication of racism can backfire. OCA, if memory serves, hinted that Pelosi may have racist motivations when attacking the squad. I don’t believe anything could be further from the truth. An excellent dramatization of the Brexit political victory was produced by HBO. If anyone wants to understand the Brexit or even Trump voter, it is a wonderful case study. In perhaps the most telling scene, the anti-Brexit campaign utilizes a focus group to see what arguments work. The participants begin discussing the issue rationally. It soon descends into name calling. A conservative middle-class woman finally has an emotional breakdown and begins sobbing. It all comes out in a rush, the feelings of being disrespected, primarily of being falsely accused of racism. The room falls silent. The anti-Brexit leaders finally realize what they have done. It was too late.
5
Just watched this week and it was enlightening . God help the US and UK.
Jrob, I hope everyone reads your comment. NYT moderators, I hope you will re-read it and highlight it. So many posters have called people in the article racists. I don't see how anyone paying attention could support Trump, and I believe there is a real immaturity or lack of ability to think clearly in anyone who does. But we cannot be throwing around accusations of racism and expect to win in 2020. And we must win.
Regarding immigration, Michelle Smith said, "We're letting too many people in.". Try telling that to Michigan's farmers, especially at harvest, landscapers, roofers.
4
Why focus on Port Huron? The majority of voters live in and around Detroit. They can out- weigh Western Michigan conservatives and rural voters any time if they get out and VOTE
5
There was a time when names like Kovach and Marzolf were viewed with as much suspicion by the general electorate as they view Tlaib and Omar today. The more things change, the more they stay the same.
5
Saul Anuzis’s comment about the “loony left“ encapsulates the reason Trump will win re-election, and I say this as a Democrat who would vote for a glass of water over 45.
The average voter is scared to death of liberalizing immigration, Medicare for All which involves giving up private insurance and abolishing ICE. The Dems tout these policies at their peril. And Trump knows it.
6
Sadly, this article is nothing new. We all know what the Trump base believes and is ready to ignore. Reporting on a few selected opinions does little to further our understanding of what will happen in the coming election. Have we been warned that Trump has a dedicated base that will not be turned? Yes, we do. What we need is the right candidate and right set of ideas that will beat Trump. Try talking about that.
2
The Walter Cronkite Republican recalls again the words of Abraham Lincoln : you can fool some of the people all of the time. That means the rest of us really need to vote.
4
It's just like those smart people say: it's the economy, stupid. Too much focus on identity politics and veering too far to the left (or right, for that matter) is a turn off for most voters. Especially when the representatives have behaved not much better. The come across not as a squad but as a group of squawking, squabbling girls. Sure there is plenty about our county that could be improved, even vastly improved. But to say oh you join the Justice Democrats or we'll put a bulleye on you isn't the way to win hearts and minds. I think thanks to these four plus the crowded and rather crazy collection of nominee hopefuls will usher Trump to a second term.
1
While I do deplore the way the so-called "Squad" has been attacked by Trump and 98% of Republicans, I do not believe that tilting the Democratic party to the far left is the answer.
I am hoping that the eventual Democratic nominee is one who can stick to the traditional core values of the party by reaching out to those who are less fortunate, by virture of income, disabilaties, ageism, homophobia, poor educational opportunites, working without mecial benefits, discrimination due to ethnic, racial, or religious background, suppression of voting rights, Citizens United, and so many of the issues Democrats supported to make our country great.
We have to make it known that Socialism and Communism are not synonymous, and that some of the best programs in our country, like Social Security, Medicare, the 40 hour work week, child labor laws, workplace safety, etc. were brought to you by Democratic values while the Republicans railed against these benficial reforms as being Socialist!
I think the media is too focused on 6 pre-ordained candidates for the Democratic nomination while overlooking some reasonable Democrats from Middle America and the Western Mountain States who don't make the headlines with controversial remarks, but quietly do their jobs and have won important elections in their states.
I hope the media and the electorate will take a look af these candidates who could lower the noise level and bring true unity, prosperity and respect to our nation.
36
@Nancy Vh Well I do believe that "tilting the Democratic Party to the far left is the answer."
First of all, however, what you refer to as "the far left" is NOT THAT FAR LEFT! As a matter of fact, most of what the "far left" i.e. democratic socialists espouse today seemed to be right around the corner in 1960s Democratic America. Social programs and safety nets were all the rage, the middle class was growing rapidly and the economy was booming.
I recall in the 1950s my conservative, working class parents talking about the economy in New Deal terms. I recall them talking about "a fair day's pay for a fair day's work," and about "paying fair wages," and "making fair profits."
Moderate, what would later be called "democratic" socialism has been in the American air for up to a century. Social and economic progress used to be ASSUMED, even amongst Republicans! We have ALWAYS believed that poverty must be eliminated, and that ALL Americans should have the essentials of a decent life!
We NEVER, in the 20th century, took the cynical view that might made right, that civilization is a jungle, and that those who can't compete well should be allowed to go WITHOUT!
In fact, the social side of America is the BETTER side of America! THAT is the side of America we should cultivate.
15
@Nancy Vh Socialism and Communism are in fact, synonymous. Karl Marx, the guy who invented communism, used both terms interchangeably. Your efforts to rebrand one of the worse ideas in history cannot ignore that fact.
@Richard Savary I hear you and probably most would agree. But it is one thing to value solid socialist ideals like no one should go without health care, it is another to bully others. I can easily see where those now called the "far left" are getting a bad rap, when one or any say you either go along with us or we'll target you in your Democratic primary. That's not Democracy. It's not much farther from what we see as Trump's bullying tactics.
4
I live 15 minutes south of Port Huron and reading this article made me sick! I had no idea that I lived so close to people who still had such racist views. My goodness this is 2019 not 1960! I could not believe it when I actually read that people agreed with Trump telling those four congresswomen to go back to where they came from. It also shocked me to see that these people actually believe that Trump is doing a good job as President, In what way? I can’t believe that the standards have lowered so much that people have ignored, virtually ignored all the constant lies that come out of Trump’s mouth on a daily basis? Has anyone read the Mueller Report which shows in black and white that this President has committed crimes while in office? He then has lied to the American People about the findings of that same report. He has refused to allow congress to do it’s constitutional job of oversight by ignoring subpoena’s and refusing to let staff members testify in front of congress. Which is illegal and he will lose in court! However, this is Trump’s game, he has played it his entire life. He ties things up in court for years, in this case he is hoping long enough for the people in this county to lose interest...that way he wins. And his base of supporters are ignorant enough to fall for his tactics.
Trump’s supporters get their information from two sources, Trump himself and Fox News, Trump has told them all that everything else is fake news, and they believe him.
18
Yes, Hillary blew it in 2016. She didn't listen to her campaign advisers including her husband who urged her to spend time in Michigan, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin.
Instead she wanted not only to beat Trump but to humiate him so she concentrated on other states that were red or purple to bring them over to the D column.
But that was then. This is now. To read that voters in those states would rather lay into the Democrats and ignore what Trump has done these past two years is not only discouraging, it is frightening.
What is wrong with these people? The four Congresswomen being targeted are duly elected representatives of the people in their states. They are not communists. They don't hate the United States. Hey, I am a Yankees fan and I can both love my team and criticize it if it fails to reach the World Series.
Trump must wake up each morning and smile - he can't believe how easy it has been for him to dupe most people.
72
@Len What is wrong with these people? They listen to FOX and trump ONLY. They don't know the half of what trump has or hasn't done over the last two years. THEY DON'T KNOW! How many people listen to more than a half hour of news every day? How many actually read anything?
12
Hillary won the popular vote by approx 2 million votes and lost the electoral college by a mere 80,000. There were many reasons why she lost, including the fact that Jill Stein voters chose to pick the candidate who had no chance of winning over the one who could beat Donald Trump and almost did.
10
@Len Any America which cannot be criticized will be a FASCIST America. That's the kind Trump advocates! He dares not use the word, but Trump is absolutely a fascist, who will make America fascist, if we let him.
12
For the love of god....you are NORMALIZING a racist strategy in your pathetic need to show “both sides”. Yes, please voters, it’s A-ok to hate the Dems because of four women of color. Hey, look most of the party has women of color. They’re all bad. Report honestly ... This. Is. Racism
11
These people will find any reason to excuse Trump's boorish behavior. So Rep. Tlaib used the "F" word and she is excoriated as if she said it on the floor of the House. She said it at what looked like a party atmosphere at a private event. Yet Trump has been caught on video using all sorts of vulgarities then even claimed that was not his voice. Yet these people refuse to hold him accountable. We might have a modern day Pied Piper as our president.
16
Michigan doesn’t have a good newspaper. For many years now, lower Michigan has had only what are really just local newspapers. I grew up there and I remember how little is in them; the papers have some opinion pieces, but they are light on facts when it comes to U.S. policy, and virtually devoid of international news. How does the populace obtain the many facts they need to make informed decisions if they don’t read better and more expensive papers online? They watch tv, where the major news channels either give scanty summaries or even leave out major facts in favor of tilt. You have to read to get what you need to know. Catch 22. People who have lost their jobs probably aren’t watching HBO and reading the NYTimes or the Wall Street Journal.
Point two: No matter what their party leanings may be, many Midwesterners are very skeptical about having to pay for healthcare for everyone because they know that it will cost much more in taxes, and they often are so strapped that paying more is inconceivable. Indeed, increased taxation is a consideration for everyone across the country.
There seem to be quite a few people who just want the security of the good jobs they used to have, the medical insurance they used to have, and a government that does it all for them without their having to read more and make decisions themselves. That isn’t the world we live in today, but it is the world some people continue to try to live in. How do you reach those people?
11
Republicans, supported by the mainstream news media, seek to characterize Democrats as communist, socialist, radical left, etc., even though they are not. How about (correctly) characterizing Republican policies as extremist and radical? Even though Republican policies are extremely destructive, Republicans win elections with effective messaging. Too often, Democrats' only counter messaging is the very weak "I am a moderate."
7
The difference between “Progressives” and the rest of the country is that “Progressives” cannot spot hateful anti-American anti-Semitic comments if they come from “people of color.” Ilhan Omar has made numerous anti-American and anti-Semitic comments but they are always discounted by “Progressives” as some form of “she did not understand” as if she is an ignorant person of color. That is the real racism of “Progressives.” Somehow people of color do not know what they are saying. Ilhan Omar and Rashida Tlaib also introduced an anti-BDS resolution in the House last week. This paper chose to not even report it right in the middle of a controversy regarding whether these women really are anti-American and anti-Semitic. The real racists are the people using these four women for political gain.
9
I wonder if Republicans are considering how all their fake concern about anti-Semitism is playing with Trump’s “very fine people” who marched in Charlottesville or the people who listen to his rhetoric and commit massacres at synagogues.
4
@Sue Mee
I am Jewish. My relatives were in concentration camps. I had a strong Jewish education, including studying the history of Jews being persecuted, wherever they lived, by religious majorities, for many centuries. Please don't insult me by suggesting that I can't discern anti-Semitism; I don't think you have anywhere near the personal experience with anti-Semitism that I & my relatives have. The next time a group of kids beats you up while hurling anti-Semitic slurs at you, please contact me & I'll give you a free consultation- a $400 value.
Yes, I detect anti-Semitism when I see it, Ms. Mee. Most of it is not coming from progressives. It is conservatives who think that only Christians are full fledged Americans. Evangelicals want to have all Jews convert to Christianity, which requires having all Jews return to Israel, according to the biblical fairy tale of the "rapture."
Please don't be foolish enough to equate support for the current Israeli government with support for Jews in general. Most secular Jews in America do not support the Netanyahu government's mistreatment of Palestinians. Most secular Jews in America support a 2-state solution to the Mideast conflict.
It is true that a small cohort of African Americans harbor anti-Semitic views, for which they are rightly condemned by Jewish progressives. Louis Farrakhan has seen his influence wane as his anti-Semitic hatred is seen as contradictory to the notion of equal rights for all.
4
Uh Michigan, how quickly you forget........
Who was it that bailed out, tried to save your auto industry?.......here's a hint, was not the Republicans........
17
As a resident of Port Huron, please know that since Trump's election, the membership of the St. Clair County Democrats has grown by hundreds.
19
Great, but are they actually going to show up and VOTE?!?
He’s in office because of 77,000 votes in 3 states, even though he lost by 3 million.
9
My family has lived in St. Clair County for more than 125 years, I grew up there, and we still own a family home there. For the Democrats to beat Trump in 2020, they need to understand the culture and makeup of the area. The county went Blue in 2008 for Obama (I campaigned for him) and could do so again, if the Democrats could just get it together, understand the mistakes they made in the past, adjust their messaging, and put some feet on the ground. This is a county of skilled tradespeople: In my mother's neighborhood alone, there are crane operators, electricians, and pipe fitters. They want jobs, education, and a future for their children, whom they don't want to leave the area for lack of employment. Though they are on the Canadian border, the immigration issue isn't the item at the top of their lists. They voted Republican in 2012, because the economic recovery Obama presented just didn't happen quickly enough. Many of those who voted Red in 2012 were rank and file union members, though union leadership voted Blue.
When I drove around my home town in October 2016, all I saw were Trump signs. I contacted the Democratic party headquarters in Royal Oak and offered to make calls. I was told that Hilary had Michigan buttoned up. Democrats should also understand that LOCAL feet on the ground are critical to success in the county. Residents will distrust outsiders telling them what is right. Hone the message in the local media.
81
@techvet Thank you for your insight and your comment. I hope Democrats will listen. Perez's DNC makes me nervous.
4
Interesting. Still don’t understand how Michigan voters could have been so unhappy with Obama after he bailed out the auto industry. Imagine the Michigan economy otherwise.
8
Fish don’t know that they are wet, because they don’t know what “dry” is. These folks don’t know they are racist for the same reason. I say the same to them - if you don’t like the diversity of opinions that makes America great, feel free to go back where your ancestors came from.
12
How much money would I lose if I bet that Mr Kovach, 82, who hates « socialism » depends on Social Security and Medicare? It’s the same with all these hypocrites. They just use the excuse of AOC’s « radicalism » as a cover for their bedrock racism.
21
It is time to admit we as citizens and our government have mishandled our leadership position in the world over the last 50 years. We allowed our politicians to create admirable programs to help our needy and less fortunate citizens , but we did not hold our elected officials responsible for monitoring and adjusting these programs when needed. The result is a fractured citizenry where many are saying enough is enough.
In the private sector once a plan is agreed to there is a constant monitoring of the plans implementation and adjusting as needed. In government our politicians pass laws, once passed no one monitors its implementation and our elected officials our sidetracked by their efforts to raise money for their next election and to support their current lifestyles. This needs to change. ... http://www.freeourfreemarkets.org/2019/02/one-man-one-vote-not.html
We need further clarification on providing Medicaid to immigrants. This issue has become a big bone of contention among Trump supporters. As a former employee of a major hospital system it was my experience that patients without health insurance were immediately signed up for Medicaid coverage by the hospital so that the hospital could obtain compensation as opposed to providing free care. The only alternative to this would be to toss the patient onto the street and I don’t believe that is what Trump supporters are advocating.
4
since no one has ever heard trump or his followers offer an alternative then it appears they are advocating tossing them to the street. Trumps vitriol certainly advocates that, toss them to a foreign street.
9
I believe that tossing immigrants out to the street instead of caring for them is EXACTLY what most Trump supporters would be advocating
11
@Mike Lynch My parents are Trump supporters and that is precisely what they are advocating.
11
It's time for the Democratic Party to run ads that feature high school or middle school teachers running their Social Studies classes about the Constitution. Sixty second ads devoted to the very topics taught in schools, one after another. Let very good teachers educate this country en masse, since it is clear that many people don't remember a thing about this great document. There's enough material to take us from today to election day without repeating a session. It would be a great project for the AFT and the Dems. Don't talk about Trump. Talk about the Constitution.
10
When President Obama was in office, I heard complaints frequently from my Republican friends. I never told them: America, Love it or leave it! Dems are respectful.
8
That may be a problem. We go high, they go low, and the GOP keeps getting away with it. The next time the pendulum shifts, the left needs to be ruthless and spit out the same rhetoric. Don't love our diverse country? There's the door. When they complain about giving sexual minorities rights, we hit back. Being the adult in the room means nothing if the toddler is a tyrant.
11
@Chris I don't recall the last time the Democrats and the MSM went high on Trump when he went low. They used all the insults on the English language against him from the minute he announced his candidacy,
3
For reasons that I cannot fathom, Democrats are really bad at laying out the case FOR voting blue. All of the intellectual energy seems to go toward further articulations of what is wrong with Trump. He supplies the product (cause for outrage), and they, like addicts, lap it up.
Trump will win, by reason of plausibility, in 2020. I realized this, also, in February, 2016. Everyone I knew thought I was nuts. And every highly paid analyist, journalist, commentator (outside of his supporters) was wrong. I was an avid Hillary guy, but I could see and UNDERSTAND the appeal to non-political people.
People in Port Huron aren't doing well, economically; but all they hear about is: Trump did this, he did that; we have to save people who are swarming the southern boorder; if you are white, and you don't think that this should be our top priority, then you are racist--whether you know it or not.
It is very unstrategic to write off one segment of the population and champion another. Particularly when the former are born citizens in a long-established community and culture who see everything waning, getting worse. Expecting these people to adopt the concerns voiced by what in Port Huron would still sound like far, far leftish ideas is destined to fail.
10
Perception and reality are often far apart. I grew up in Saginaw, Michigan, in the 1960's. My high school had 2,000 students. Of those 2,000, two were black, and because of that, we considered ourselves to be an integrated school, liberal, and completely in sync with the progressive mood of the day. We completely ignored the fact that the vast majority of black citizens lived on the east side of the city and the white's lived on the west side. We had teen dances and a teen night club on the west side featuring white acts while the east side had black acts coming up from Detroit. Once bussing started in Saginaw, those "liberal" whites moved to the suburbs where they live today. How people see the world is limited to how far their comfort level allows their vision to extend. Trump plays to those comfort levels, and rather than challenge Americans to find solutions to issues, he creates illusions so they can sit back and feel comfort. It's an effective, but shortsighted strategy that will eventually collapse in on itself. The only question is when will it happen?
7
Trump bested Clinton in Michigan by 10,704 votes in 2016. I doubt that the totality of Trump's words and behaviors since then will preserve his margin of victory in 2020.
6
@Dr--Bobq and there is no Clinton to hate and her baggage and James Comey email disclosure.
The Flint Water Crisis fell almost entirely on black people. Michigan has a sizable black population, but the State is profoundly segregated. Whether it is water supply, schools or any public services, the Michigan State motto should read: "Separate and Unequal".
Is segregation and failure to address the enormous gulf between the quality of vital public services between white and non-white populations to be considered racism? Yes, yes it is. If you tolerate separate and equal, you are a racist.
11
C'mon, Michigan, go blue.
6
That was a good one.
3
What a bizarre piece of "reporting".
The "reporters" treat Trump's overt, vicious racism as an entirely neutral act. Not something to be called out, or commented upon negatively. Just a neutral strategy for Trump to hold onto his base.
Yet how the Times attacked Hillary Clinton repeatedly in 2016 for her email, in scathing terms. But Trump? He's pretty much always gotten a pass from the Times. Almost laughable that people think of it as a "liberal" publication....when it's so clearly in the tank for the GOP and Trump.
12
Northwest Michigan is staying with Trump. Money votes.
2
Trump is essentially Archie Bunker (you may have to look that name up). He's just an aging white working class bigot from Queens. Yes, I know Trump was born rich, but he has managed to avoid any of the kind of sophistication that usually comes with money.
The real culprit is the press which gives him endless coverage. Knowing that Trump = Archie Bunker means his recent statements that non-whites are not entitled to an opinion on how the country is run should have come as absolutely no surprise.
Instead CNN, WaPo and the Times pull out their pearls and very publicly clutch them as if to indicate they are shocked, shocked I tell you, that Trump would say this. He's being saying this from day one. The really shocking (actually depressing) thing is how many people like it.
9
Racism and bigotry. That's what it means, regardless of what anyone says.
4
Wouldn't it be nice if the NY Times Number One point was not: "Hey, this racist strategy may be working!" but instead to clearly state that the four Congresswoman are NOT "the loony Left", but are in fact doing their very American duty that they were elected for as members of Congress, and that these misinformed voters views are being formed as the result of vicious direct lies and misinformation stated by the President himself and others about these women.
Right-wing propaganda of this kind should be considered a clear and present danger to our country, not marginalized as "Strategy" and added to another pointless discussion of the Presidential "Horse race". Haven't you learned anything since 2016?
115
@Vibarama Blaming the messenger isn't going to help.
The fab four would be well advised to pay attention to how people are framing the choice between the visions of the two parties. Their trust in Trump is frightening, but it's something we need to know.
If people are not viewing The Squad's message accurately, they have some work to do. Criticizing NYT for pointing out that possibility doesn't change the underlying problem.
11
@DrB I have to agree with Vibarama. I think a number of messengers need to own up to where they fail. You can't put certain elected officials on a pedestal and bury legit criticism nor can you go over the edge with one-sided spite stories no matter how personally disgusting the elected official is. Issues get spun out of control and soon we see a group of would-be candidates chanting mostly the same stuff that isn't even what voters are focused on. All the Democratic candidates all sound like they are running for another country.
4
@Vibarama - “cleat and present danger”? What do you propose? Suppressing it somehow? That isn’t likely to work, even if it were possible or right. Sometimes the left sounds just as fascistic as the right. The only solution is to accept what is real and work for what is achievable, not some rapid fantasy agenda. The country is designed to change slowly and in increments. If the founders wanted rapid change, they had the French Revolution as their cautionary tale. They purposefully designed something different. Thankfully. Sometimes I think some on the Left are so certain of their righteousness that the guillotine might come out of mothballs if they get their way. So, independents like me are between a rock and a hard place.
5
I believe that these people would feel the way they do regardless of who is POTUS. Trump just gives voice to them. Tlaib's strident tone doesn't help.
As a North Carolinian, I was ashamed of my state last week. And now Michigan. How much more can our country take of this man’s unceasing desire to divide and destroy us a people and patriots?
3
Let's look at the "real socialism"...Trump made money on six bankruptcies and a creditor bank floated him alot of money every month to keep him in his lifestyle after the Plaza Hotel bankruptcy.
Only the wealthy could do that....I call it Wealth Socialism.
GE paid about a single digit federal tax rate in 2010 (the time of the Romney 47% comment); Amazon paid practically nothing in federal taxes last year while seeking billions in government give-a-ways to put a warehouse in Queens. Meanwhile, jobs continue to float away.
The US Tax Code is not written for the average American. Lobbyists are expensive. Corporations can spend whatever they can to get tax breaks and then deduct the cost in doing so. Shareholders foot the bill for corporate golf outings, restaurants, corporate retreats, stellar office space, planes, premier healthcare plans, ridiculous salaries...all deductible...then claiming they have taken all "legitimate" deductions to support their positions of little taxable income.
Taxpayers also pay something for it.
The rest of the USA must disproportionately pay for the free tax ride. When the notion of a higher "minimum wage" comes up, corporations and the very wealthy all baulk at the idea, blaming that its excessive cost would "negatively" impact profits. Of course, it would, but insignificantly so.
Wealth Socialism means that the excessively wealthy simply want to keep more for themselves and the tax code provides them with the means to do that.
10
I want to remind everyone that, while Messrs. Kovach and Marzolf opined about the motives of the "black or colored" congresswomen, the NAACP was meeting in Detroit for its 110th annual convention and celebrating Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.'s Walk to Freedom in Detroit in 1963. As a fellow Michiganian, I want to encourage people of all colors and faiths to move to Michigan, to repopulate my beloved Detroit, and to build a city of peace and prosperity. Immigrants built this city; built this state; built this country. Like sister Aretha said, all they want is a little RESPECT. Bring it.
5
" suggesting they are unpatriotic and should leave the country." If you disagree with the POTUS then you must be unpatriotic. This the POTUS's opinion and represents a very undemocratic opinion. Whoever said Trump was democratic. As for leaving the country because you do not agree with the POTUS, well if that were true then millions of people would be leaving. Everyone in the country does not agree with everything Trump says.
5
If America, still in our infancy, be about nothing else, at least it should be about collective learning. Then, in solidarity with and along side these Michiganders, oppressed black folks and women and LGBTQ and immigrants and marginalized ethnic groups, and privileged white folks together all need a safe space to speak their piece and learn what we may give which others lack.
If this Trumpian moment is not a lesson fulfilled, it can only be a lesson undone. It's not too late for these collective Town Hall meetings to occur (nonpartisan and nondenominational).
1
The Thumb of Michigan (where Port Huron is located) is so weird about politics and DT in particular. Your piece does not cover the frustrations of the many people who go to church regularly, the surprising amount of closeted Democrats living there, or the ripple effect of the Trumpers mentioned. First, many people who consider themselves decent church folk voted Trump a lot for the Supreme Court and a lot against Hillary. But for these voters and for the closeted Democrats, they rarely feel comfortable discussing this in any group without knowledge of where other people stand. That because, the other voters, the pro-Trumpers, have absolutely taken the reins of the community's conversation. And they're people the rest of us know and like, and we don't want to ruin relationships. For these Trumpers, our friends, the "I'm not racist, but sometimes I say not PC things" has struck so deep a chord that they're apologetic of things they wouldn't tolerate in person. I know quite a few people who would have fired him for his comments, but will vote for him next year.
9
What I understand from this article is that older white Americans, in particular, will do anything, justify anything, and believe anything to maintain their personal status quo up and until their house burns downs around them, they get laid off, the economy tanks, their 401K tanks, or their Medicare gets cut. Then, you'll see them in the streets upset about the economy or climate change demanding subsidies from the government in their time of need. Trump meanwhile will flirt with fascists and racists and then turn around and accuse the people he scapegoated of being racists. But his voters don't care. Period. They enjoy the hate the show for the most part. So, I think progressives should ignore these people. Talk about how your economic policies are better and neither promise the moon nor raise taxes much on the middle class. If people in Detroit can't figure out why they shouldn't vote for Trump/DeVos then the Michigan water has already fried their brains.
11
In the past 25 years, tens of thousands of businesses, big and small, have been shuttered and millions of people have lost good paying jobs with good benefits. What did you expect? It’s so easy to write-off tens of millions of voters as racist, xenophobic and misogynistic. I believe that for the vast majority of voters in the Midwest, it’s about broken promises from both political parties. I grew up in a county in Ohio which Hillary Clinton won; still hoping that the Democrats can make their lives better. But big swaths of the state gave up hope a long time ago. That trend has repeated itself in many other states in the middle of the country. Look back at the voting trends of Midwest states in the past ten presidential elections dating back to Ronald Reagan. Both parties were given multiple chances. And a more nuanced explanation for Donald Trump emerges. Trump was a Hail Mary pass for many. It was and continues to be about the economy. It was and continues to be about making peoples lot in life a little better. So for 2020, the Democrats need to speak to that fact. Everything else is a distraction.
8
Again, why does the Times spend so much time on the minority of voters that favor Trump, and the fans of "love it or leave it" are a minority of this minority.
Two or 3 times a week Trump performs the equivalent of throwing a stick of dynamite with a lit fuse on the White House lawn and, like Pavlov's dogs, the media show up to watch and publicize the explosion.
Trump's obvious strategy is to jerk everyone's chain in different directions to distract from the failures of his lawless presidency. Stop being a party to Trumps obfuscation!
10
I have three members of my immediate family who were among those 75,000 in Michigan who cast a ballot in 2016 but did not vote for president. Two are committed to voting for Trump in 2020. One is on the fence. Their vote has to do with the economy and with them being terrified of the socialist left.
And when the term "racist" has become synonymous with "all people who aren't socialists" then people frankly become dull to the accusation.
Just the other day I read a tweet that said anyone who has a single family home, neighborhood schools, and is "tough on crime" is a racist. The day before that I read Ibram X Kendi's claim that anyone who supports capitalism is a racist. In our media we have the grotesque spectacle of elite columnists, Ivy League grads, and celebrities referring to working class whites from the Midwest as "privileged."
The far left has set down the terms. Anyone who is not a socialist is a racist. Anyone who believes in hard work is a racist. Anyone who wants to have a home in a quiet and safe community is a racist. Being for reasonable controls on immigration makes you racist. Being middle class by its very nature makes you racist. All objections are signs of your "white fragility."
With us or against us. Shut up and sit down.
Don't be shocked when a large number of people stop caring about racism under those terms.
FWIW I am a Democrat who finds Trump abhorrent. But Democrats need to get a clue, and fast, or he is getting re-elected.
20
@A F What a great comment. I wish some of the commentators will replace by rotation the extreme NYT columnists (Blow, Bouie, Goldberg, Stevens) and the dated ones (Kristoff, Krugman, etc).
5
When you add that Warren knows she is going to wreck the economy and tells the press that she will then the race is over!
@Charlie
Warren is actually one of the few candidates that I think could win Michigan. She's a native midwesterner and seems to be more interested in saving capitalism through better regulation than destroying it. She knows how to speak to crowds flyover country.
Even one of my Fox New watching, converted to Team Trump relatives has had nice things to say about Elizabeth Warren, and apparently so did Tucker Carlson, his favorite news personality. (I know, I know...)
A Biden-Warren ticket I think could be very strong in places like Michigan.
I've warmed up to Warren quite a bit recently, and though I will probably still support Biden in the primary, Warren is right now a strong second choice of mine. I think her electability is underrated.
If she can get away from pandering to the NYC crowd with things like forgiving college debt at taxpayer expense, and focus instead on broad reforms that help all working Americans, I think she has a real shot.
2
The Election has already been won by Trump, the 30 states which gave him thier Electoral college votes before will do it again. He is surely a full blown racist as has been proven again and again at his rallies. However he can only get away with this if he has a large amount of support from the electorate which seems to me to be the case South of the Mason-Dixon line and in the Midwest. Support for his policies in these areas is obviously quite rabid.
2
-accorfing to which ollster is he ahead in ALL the same states? it has been reported he is behind considerably in PA, Wi, and MI as well as FLA. This may change of. course but comments luje this will at lwast help keep the oppostion to Trump from becoming complacent and staying home, which was one of several factors to produce the terrible result we have had to live with byr cannit afford to do so much longerand still be America
1
In my opinion, there are two types of Trump supporters. Those who agree with his racism, and those who see a way to profit financially from his racism. The media foolishly looks for breaks in the lines with Trump supporters as he pushes deeper into white nationalism. Any breaks that were going to happen took place after Charlottesville. I know it is hard to accept that a family member, friend, well-liked co-worker or neighbor is a racist. The reality is, you can't say, "facts matter", with regard to Trump, and then ignore the facts about those a little closer to your homes.
5
Democracy isn't free. It takes hard work and it takes facing the truth. The American public has mostly become automatons that simply repeat whatever is pushed to them through propaganda outlets masquerading as news outlets. In the end, Trump like all dictators win support by creating misery or perpetuating misery amongst poorly informed and highly propagandized people while blaming it on the people that actually have the solutions. This is how these people seem to only know the "squad" through character assaults and not through anything that they have done or said themselves. If a country doesn't deserve to keep democracy surely it will lose it. Whether that will happen in the United Staters is hard to say though many think it is already a foregone conclusion.
2
There is no understanding or hearing out folks who support a bigoted buffoon for president.
Racism is a line in the sand. It is a moral travesty that holds certain people are somehow less deserving than others.
Red states that support Trump, whether by 10,000 or 10 million votes, are culpable. That includes you Michigan!
Ironically, Trump, the man who hates [expletive] countries, champions states that are some of the lowest functioning in the country, places that are backwards economically and socially.
For many of us in places like New England and California, regions like the Midwest and the South might as well be foreign countries, and pretty unattractive ones at that.
5
I ask you to remember that the entire population shouldn’t be written off in the Midwest or South. My home state, especially the Cities, is moderate to liberal leaning and offers excellent education, jobs, housing etc.
1
This is where bad education, bad healthcare and wrong taxation lead you.
Now why poor white males are still voting against there own interest is because nationalistic conservatism is a hard addiction, when you have lost everything else.
7
"Strong hiring in local factories."
This is going to make it difficult for Elizabeth Warren.
@Mike Edwards
I have family in Michigan that own a factory. Their wages and benefits are very good, and they have many long time employees, including black and hispanic workers, who have built solid middle class lives through their employment there.
They cannot find enough workers. They have literally hit the floor where those who are unemployed are literally unemployable.
I have another family member who works in retail who says the same thing. Her workplace is a revolving door of people who quit two days into the job because (her words) they "don't like getting up before noon, and they actually SAY that."
These kinds of experiences do not predispose them well as voters to those who say the American Dream is broken and socialism is the answer.
7
Obviously these people watch Fox News and swallow the propaganda. I fear for our country and our lives. These are the original Good Germans gone bad. The ones who stood by as their neighbors were taken away to the camps. Never thought we would see that here. And yet look at the bitterness and anger that has infected these fortunate sons and daughters. Breathtaking.
9
And these voters are, unfortunately, the kind of people we have to deal with in the U.S.
2
We will never agree. I’m so bored with the Midwest narrow mind set. Break up the country
5
@Mary m
Michigan has voted Democratic in every presidential election since 1992 before this 2016 election.
2
We have to deal with reality or we will have four more years of this. If re-elected, there be nothing to break up.
2
@Mary m
I grew up in Michigan and went to graduate school and worked for over a decade in NYC.
New Yorkers are every bit as "boring", "narrow minded", and parochial as midwesterners are, just in their own way.
We all live in bubbles. Maybe we should all be doing more to pop them instead of demonizing the other side from a place of very limited understanding and experience.
1
No different than Russians supporting Putin while the oligarchs drain the coffers, life-expectancy plummets, and racism reigns.
Propaganda works, folks, and the GOP has the best there is to offer.
16
Why do reporters never ask these Trump supporters which policies of his they support, the reason why they support it and how it has affected them. I'd bet they couldn't answer those questions.
11
@June
Probably for the same reason that Democrat voters were never asked those questions of why they supported Clinton or Obama. Conservative media has tried that frequently, and the average Democrat voter couldn't articulate an answer.
2
Of course they don’t know. They did not know in’18 either. But they vote and we need a candidate who can win in these purple states. This is not rocket science
1
@VCuttolo - Please provide some examples of these exchanges with conservative media.
First of all, any OVERWHELMINGLY white working-class county ONE HOUR from Detroit has maintained its OVERWHELMINGNESS by informally letting it be known that “colored folks need not apply”! As such, deep support for trump is un-noteworthy, not newsworthy and utterly unexceptional!
Moreover, were the extreme views of fringe members of Congress truly dispositive for those so-called fence sitters instead of a convenient political excuse to vote for a social and cultural ogre the Steve Kings of this world would’ve driven them out of the Republican Party a long time ago!
4
@J-John
Quite the claims you made. Care to back them up with a shred of evidence?
5
Unfortunately you don't have to be well-informed to vote . and why should you, when you don't even have to be well-informed to be President?
The quotes from voters tie in with the views of many in Britain, who basically don't give a hoot how boorish and incompetent Boris Johnson has proved himself as a politician - he's a Conservative and that's enough. Most - like most in the USA - don't read any serious newspaper and don't watch any TV which might require their mental participation. And wait until the Internet manipulators get to work, both in the USA and in the UK ...
12
@Bill George
Ignorance is the fertile field of propaganda.
5
I always find the comments a little depressing. Democrats keep trying to figure out how to sway mythical swing voters who aren’t going to vote for a Democrat. Ever. On any planet. In any parallel universe.
The Republicans have figured out that the pundits are wrong; elections aren’t about the middle, they’re about turning out your base.
It is time for Democrats to understand the same thing. They key to winning in 2020 isn’t convincing Trump voters to switch; it’s convincing the 4 million people that voted for Obama and stayed home in 2016 to vote.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/10/opinion/sunday/obama-trump-voters-democrats.html
7
Which is why Trump will win again. The Identity Party cannot get out the vote. It is easy to answer a pollster when they call you but hard to go vote. I held my nose and voted for Hilary but the 25 are totally unappealing. The final straw was the Medicaid for all the illegals.
7
I live in a highly liberal area. I have seen, for many years, that liberals have lost the ability to stand up to the far left. They can oppose the "far right" but they dont' seem capable of realizing that the far left has equally distorted ideology. Liberals and Democrats have largely fallen victim to the far left/identity politics "logic" that "If I accuse you of being racist, then you ARE, you have no possible way of defending yourself or proving that what I said is untrue."
So, many on the left are just terribly petrified of being called racist, and basically will do whatever they are "told" to do in order to "prove" that they aren't racist. They can't stand up to "the squad" because, as the logic goes, that would mean they are racist. They've boxed themselves into a corner.
The only way out of this conundrum is one that requires exploding identity politics completely apart, and stop allowing your life to be run by people who manipulate you by calling you racist if you disagree with them.
19
Great response! In my experience, this is also why so many people voted for trump. They feel as though all liberals are the far left, understand that identity politics have gotten out of control, and the republicans aren’t running any other candidate.
8
@Oakbranch
So true. Media, including the NYT misuses the term racist and immigrant every single day much do my dismay. They attribute racism without proof to any proclamation that is at best protectionist or nationalistic. They call illegal immigrants migrants or simply immigrants and refuse to acknowledge the difference. I am a liberal, I support universal health care with a private option, I support environmental policies, I support abortion rights, I support lowering defense spending. I do not support lax immigration laws, I do not support accepting at face value anyone who calls himself or herself asylum seeker, and most of all I do not support the use of the loose use of words and that goes for the other side who constantly misuses and misunderstands the word socialist and socialism.
7
I am less hopeful than many commentators; I have little deep knowledge of the US side, but I see Trump/GOP along with our Brexit trainwreck as having given some of the worst prejudices in a big section of our societies license to express views hidden for a long time. I have a real fear that even a future substantial vote against this, will not be readily accepted by the "Alternative facts" readers. I would add our Conservatives are full-bloodied extreme Socialists to the GOP!
PS - moderators, I can't help but notice my last few contributions appear not to have made it here. Am I saying something wrong? Puzzled...
1
Funny how most of the people that hate socialism also love Robin Hood.
6
The simplest way to sway the committment of Trump voters is to ask: "What has Trump done for you since 2016?". Have the attacks on the ACA helped you? Has the "Trump Tax Cut" helped you? Have the attacks on women helped you?
I hope that Biden is the Dem candidate, and that Trump is sent back to Manhattan, and then after a trial for fraud, money laundering and obstruction of justice, is sent to jail.
3
Summary and Conclusion: Trump will be re-elected.
7
I live across the river , in Sarnia ...(Canada ) .. No suprises trump is supported here ... Lots of low paying jobs , small dumpy , poorly maintained homes .. Good luck !
5
So, Trump supporters decide that his 'go back' statement was not racist and therefore acceptable. Nevermind that it was intolerant, undemocratic, and outside the rule of law. That's ok too, so long as the President is targeting people unlike themselves. One can look to history to see the kind of fascism that blossoms in this environment.
@PMD
Then why does the media not call Trump's comments intolerant and undemocratic? People who support Trump, do not consider themselves racist they do not view that comment , as ignorant as it was, racist. To them, what is outside the rule of law, is the fact that many Democratic contenders are not going to uphold the law especially when it comes to illegal immigration.
2
This article is indirect scare-mongering. "Don't vote for a progressive candidate or you'll lose Michigan". Yeah, no. A milquetoast candidate will not get more people to come out and vote, anywhere.
3
I guess that “women of color” has become a noun. Apparently, using “women” is no
longer a complete expression and is insufficient to use as a description of adult females who happen to be black, Hispanic or Muslim.
In the old south, the title of a lawsuit would always add the word “colored” to the name of a black defendant. So for instance, a criminal case brought against a black man named Jones would be titled officially as “The People v. Jones, colored”. It was a reprehensible practice designed to make sure you knew the alleged perpetrator was black. White citizens received no such designation. As we evolved, designating a person of color as such was determined to violate equal protection.
Now, we seem to have regressed where, just as in the old south, it is incomplete to simply refer to someone without adding a racial or ethic -or religious qualifier.
Reducing this to absurdity would require me to be “Gino, an Italian man”, or my friend Sol as “Sol, a Jewish man” or maybe Mary as “Mary, a Woman of Catholicism”. After all, we must each be placed in a separate category.
Many countries have had such designations for centuries, but by tribal membership. They’ve also been at war for centuries.
The most racial statement one can make now is to wish for a “colorblind” society. Dr. King, how tragically wrong your prophecy was.
12
@Gene Gambale,
I agree totally with your premise.
Until recently, identifying people by "color" was as bad as using the letter that comes between m and o, but you can figure it out.
Rapper's delight is destroying the culture.
Human beings discriminate. Sometimes we discriminate fairly, often we don't. Occasionally, our discrimination is relatively harmless, such as when we discriminate between two similar offerings of a California Cabernet Sauvignon, one which won a Silver medal, the other which didn't.
Much unfair discrimination is hidden because it is indirect.
Employers discriminate fairly, supposedly, on the basis of merit. But the employer who refuses to employ convicted felons, who in the USA are, of course, disproportionately black, often convicted for possession of an illicit substance, discriminates indirectly against black persons.
Many women try to reenter the workforce after taking many years out of gainful employment while raising a family, so the employer who discriminates against hiring older employees indirectly discriminates against women.
We discriminate fairly but more often unfairly on the basis of work history, personal references, social class, attended schools, colleges or universities, intelligence, beauty, athleticism, charm, ideology, formal schooling and qualifications, politics, religion, sect and sub-sect, nationality, state, region, city, town, village, street, ethnicity and skin colour, language, dialect, accent, voice tone, sex, sexuality, gender, clothes, hair, makeup, posture, sense of humour, ideals, age, personal cleanliness, body odour. The football team a person barracks for.
Humans discriminate. We can't help it. It's who we are.
5
No problem. When this so-called president loses his re-election bid and we can throw him to the curb, let these people cross
the Blue Water Bridge to Sarnia and ask the Canadians for asylum. I'm sure the Canadians, called a "national security threat" to the United States by "you know who", will be delighted.
2
How is it possible that "conservatives" in both the UK and United States are all simultaneously dancing to the same shrill tune of being anti-immigrant, anti-NATO, and grossly counterfactual?
Since the Beetle's invasion of 1964 never have the conservative people from both countries been so unified in their ardor for illogical syllogisms. William Buckley wrote in 1964, "The Beatles are not merely awful; I would consider it sacrilegious to say anything less than that they are god awful."
Today's unifying force across the Atlantic for conservatives? Rupert Murdoch's TV and radio media empire Sky News in the UK and Fox News in the States---utilizing the same recipe. Just add a dash of nihilism in the form of Nigel Farage in the UK and the mislabeled Freedom Caucus Messrs Mark Meadows and Jim Jordan in "Murrica"; all agitating for their respective neo Holy Grail of imperfect ideas built upon the very vapor of their zeal---yes, circular some might say.
Today's angry conservatives are like a dog who chases after a car, that suddenly stops, the dog instantly doesn't know what to do so it simply growls louder. Such inaction is reflected in the endless delays of Brexit and the GOP's inaction on immigration when it controlled both the Congress and White House. This collective conservative sand in the gears approach to governing underlines the shared susceptibility of democracies to Murdoch's mindless machinations and endless propaganda. Believe me.
3
@Zdude,
Easy, we, USA and England are the of the opinion that rule of law is just that; it started with the Magna Carta in England.
Whenever Mr. Trump says or does something to morally outrage most people, that moral outrage ultimately serves this president in two ways. It strengthens his base who will defend his action or words with falsehoods if necessary. Secondly, it will cause those who voted for him and now regret that decision to take up a defensive posture and vote for him again. After all, no one likes being called out on his or her mistakes. Do you want to make Mr. Trump a “one term president?” If so, then the next time something like this happens (and it will), shake your head in disbelief, tell those about you that you are praying for this president, then go to your polling place on November 3, 2020 and quietly vote this man out of office.
3
What's the point of this article? In a town that heavily favors the president, people still support him. How is that surprising or newsworthy? Nothing the president says or does diminishes his support among voters who idolize him despite the flaws they see. What would have been more informative would be surveying a town that was more divided somewhere else in Michigan.
7
The Democrats need to understand Trump will not lose any of his supporters, no matter what he says or does. Trump has the advantage of being able to call bad news fake news and his supporters will eat it up. The only option is to put forth viable ideas that people want and get out the vote based on those ideas.
2
@Josue Azul
A lot of people voted for Trump who do not comprise his base. Many of those people have been turned off by Trump. They won't vote for him again if the Dems can offer any kind of viable alternative.
1
Is Trump's message racist or he has a legitimate point ?
In order to ignore the racist card, similar situation in Austria:
Many people (also my parents) fled communism and found a new home in Austria. Now some of my peers, former eastern block children, are Austrian politicians (mainly of the Green party and the Left) , complaining about Austria,criticizing the "non-inclusive" culture and trying to "socialize" the country.
In this case I'm also asking: why are you here ? your parents fled failed countries, fled socialism and lived in Austria because it offered much better opportunities. Now you want to radically change the country, but why ? to reflect the country your parents fled from ?
In this regard I cannot be called racist. My parents came from the same country as those I'm criticizing and all of us are "Caucasian".
I believe its a legitimate question & criticism.
9
What this article should be about is how the Right Wing Echo Chamber has destroyed the minds of once sentient beings who are now out of the reach of facts and reason and how the Dems should forget about them and focus on getting out the vote of Americans who can separate fact from fiction.
9
Ok, Trump is a racist, I get that. But, using the same criteria, I would say the four members of the "firing squad" are racists too, with their anti-Semitic BDS movement and statements. I never supported Trump and never will, but I can see where those people of Port Huron are coming from.
As for me, I believe the only chance for Democrats to win over the swing and moderate voters is backing Joe Biden. He must concentrate his campaign on jobs, living wages, healthcare with a choice of public option or keeping your private insurance. Medicare for All won't work here with 175 million who already have private insurance through their employer. We couldn’t pay for it either. I also don't want a wholesale payoff of everyone's student loans either. Do you then pay back those who already diligently paid off their loans? What about those that didn't go to college? How do we compensate them? I paid off my loan and so should anyone else who goes into debt with their eyes wide open. No one forced them to finance their education and future earnings.
This country is already a Democratic socialist one anyway, but most people don't want to go to the extreme some of the left leaning candidates want to take us to. Joe Biden is the one who will right this ship and save us from another 4 years of the horrendous failed Presidency of Trump. Once Joe is in office we can talk about other positive changes to this country. Even some of those folks in Port Huron might vote for him too.
8
@biglatka
You know very well that Trump and his crew are the anti-Semites and the Israel has become a bastion of rightwing theocrats. And "I've got mine" never worked as a solution. I too paid my student loan debt and some of my child's debt but I'm capable of seeing how young people need freedom from the vultures at Navient to be economically productive.
5
@RAC
Well, that's a child's argument; "they are too." I know Trump is anti-Semitetic, but so is the squad. Doesn't make it right and everyone in Israel is not a right-wing theocrat, I know that for a fact. You paint with such a wide brush as to tar everyone. Perhaps you should study up on Israel and the plight of the Jews throughout history to understand their motivation.
If students don't have any skin in game, many will not have the impetuous to do well in college, by getting a free ride. Maybe we can be creative with interest rates, something along the line of the Fed Funds rate to ease the burden. But, something worth working for, is worth paying for. Forgiving everyone's sudden loan is basically unfair to those who ether paid off their loans or didn't take one out in the first place. I sure as heck don't want to help someone become a doctor and then have to pay them $150 for a 10 minute visit (extreme example).
1
The DNC and its PACs, not the Democratic nominee, need to saturate airwaves and social media with proofs of Trump's incessant lying and hypocracies. Most of what he says is an outright lie or absurd exaggeration. Discredit the source of these outrages, and you neutralize the message and its messenger. It's not too early to start. Clearly Trump's strategy is to paint any and all Democrats with the same filthy brush. Democrats must delineate his modus operandi to voters, starting now.
2
The most disheartening thing about this story, and others like it, is that this kind of ignorance is not only deeply rooted in large parts of our population, but the basic structure of our economy and social institutions are churning out more and more ignorant racists - campaign fodder. We've got no money for healthy food, clean air and water, healthy media, healthy learning environments because it all goes to feed the industries that thrive on physical and mental sickness and violence.
The Green New Deal is hands down the best and only credible way of setting a course towards a healthier country. Even that will take generations, but I don't think there is any other way. Greta Lundgren is right and Pelosi and Feinstein are wrong, and AOC and the other new, diverse members of the new Congress are the only ones lending a modicum of sober, and hopeful, reality in the otherwise ethically moribund Democratic party.
6
I fear another 4 years of Trump because I cannot afford the obscene individual health insurance premiums offered by the exchange in my state and I don't qualify for a subsidy.
$9200 a year for a Bronze Health insurance plan with a 6500 deductible!
We need a candidate that will provide FREE health insurance for all like Sanders or Harris!
Trump's premiums are killing me!
5
@David how would you like “free” health insurance that raises your taxes by 10k+ per year? That’s Sanders plan and nothing is free.
2
@Stefan
I don't qualify for the subsidy and can't afford the marketplace premiums which for me cost over $15,000 a year. So that unsubstantiated claim of $10,000 a year you make sounds good to me.
3
@Stefan -- as opposed to the 10k a year (more, actually) that a family pays in premiums? Right off the bat that's a wash. And then no deductibles, no exclusions, no denials of coverage and no purgatory of the private insurers bureaucracy... count me in. Those folks in Michigan really should take the short drive over to Canada and chat with a dozen or so of their neighbors about their public healthcare plan. My dad married two Canadian ladies (not at the same time!) and eventually became a naturalized citizen. I learned that Canadians all complain about their taxes because, well, everyone complains about their taxes, but boy, they LOVE their healthcare system! My stepmom had non Hodgekins lymphoma. She goes to her doctor, she presents her national medical card and that's it. Not even a form to sign. And excellent care. Canada is a huge country with a far-flung population. Their system works. It will work here if people can see past the scare tactic of "but your taxes will go up!"
4
If I get the article right. Trump voters will vote for Trump, but are a little embarrassed by it, so they claim it’s because democrats are worse.
I don’t mind these kind of articles, keep democrats scared and they will show up in 2020.
8
4 representatives out of 425 House members have no real power. If people do not understand that, they are not using the brains God gave them. Our country is in real trouble if Americans don’t wake up and realize what Trump us doing to a great country.
3
The point of this article is well put. The Democratic Party in its inability to translate and produce viable candidates has made Trump a preferable option, which when you think of it, is astounding. What could be more toxic than DJT, right, the Democratic platform. It was theirs to win and they anointed Hillary Clinton? Arrogance from the Democratic party's lost the presidency. Trump just sat here like a goober and was selected. Democrats in Congress will let it happen again.
As an observer, I truly believe were it not for the selection of Sarah Palen that John McCain would have been President and not Obama. So it matters who has the worst, not the best candidate.
2
Bill de Blasio, of all people put it succintly at the first Democratic debate.
These people are genuinely hurting and Trump and the GOP have managed to convince them that their pain is caused by foreigners and immigrants of color, and not the big business interests that control their government.
Ironically, most of the people who run these corporations are people of their own skin color. But its always easier to blame the other than yourself.
5
I wonder why the media so often present the most left Democrats as the face of their party, but rarely present the most conservative Republicans as the face of that party.
6
Michigan is a big state. Instead of doing another story on what white, rural voters in a swing state think about the President, why not focus on what the folks in Detroit, Flint, or Lansing think? They matter just as much to Democratic turnout in 2020.
7
Why are Americans so sensitive to any criticism about their country? Never have I seen so many comments where people are told that they should live somewhere else if they don't like it here.
What makes them think that critics deserve expulsion?
5
In my opinion these older white people you reference in Michigan are not entirely representative of Michigan. Many have seen the ravages of the rise of the billionaire class and how unbridled greed in corporate America has sacrificed the middle class, our healthcare system. Many are experiencing the growing destructive impact of pretending that human induced global warming is a hoax.
In my opinion, it must be recognized, and stated unambiguously, is that Trump and those who control him and work with him check all the boxes of a unified effort to employ the strategies and tactics of fascism.
In my opinion, McConnell seems intent on shutting down democracy by not allowing any legislation or nomination not meeting his paymasters' agenda to come forward.
It is my opinion and observation that Trump is working hard to create a massive cloud of illusion, and he is backed by a network of propaganda organizations that promotes his lies and calls it "journalism."
In my opinion, this nation is facing Putin U& Co.'s strategy to use fascism to sow chaos in all democratic nations. His ingenious plan to create proxy agents in government leadership roles is working. The boards of directors of the largest companies all know each other and in my opinion are in alignment with Putin.
To win in these states will require outreach to the poor, exit polling to defend against hacking, and a democratic party that serves citizens first and giant multi-national corporations second.
4
Instructive to see how these counties voted in 2012.
St. Clair
Obama/Biden 45.81%,
Romney/Ryan 52.94%
Macomb
Obama 51.48%
Romney 47.49%
Obama lost St.Clair by about 7 points, but won Macomb by about 4.
So things don't change much. St. Clair is a Republican County, Macomb, the home of the Reagan Democrats, is a close shave.
Nothing surprising. The article could have pointed that out.
It was more that Clinton lost Michigan, rather than Trump winning. There was a distinct lack of enthusiasm for her among Democrats that was evidenced in the turn out in Democratic strongholds
Try an article in Detroit.
3
This situation should be the death knell for the tactic of some Dems trying to bring back voters from the Republicans.
It should be a wake up call to those who want the Dems to run towards the center.
Exactly what votes do you expect to find there?
The fact that 75,000 in Michigan _who were already in the polling booth_ skipped voting for president is shocking. That just scratches the surface of the disgust among our citizenry with the choices being offered them.
There are plenty of right-wing choices, but for the rest of us, the response that progressives like Sanders and Warren receive is indicative of a vacuum of choice to the left of the middle of the road. There are millions of more votes that have sat idle, but are nonetheless accessible for candidates that want to do the people's business. Most of those votes sit idle because the issues of concerns to working Americans have been ignored - and they see Trump as no more a solution than the middle-of-the-road Dems.
And please let's not give much credence to accusations that any of the Dem candidates, including Bernie, represent the first wave of the next Communist International. Regulating capitalism will save it from itself. Not regulating it will continue the race to the bottom that we're currently in. Keeping a few greedheads rich is not the responsibility of the rest of us.
Those who can't see or don't care about Trump's blatant embrace of racism are a lost cause. We should focus on getting all out to vote.
6
@Mike
I'm from Michigan. Everyone I know who left the top of their ticket blank was a relatively moderate voter whose objection to Hilary was that she was perceived of as too far left, elitist, and corrupt.
And you think these same people will happily vote for a socialist from Vermont?
I don't think you understand who left their tickets blank and why.
The idea that there is a vast pool of far left voters just waiting to come out of the shadows is an illusion that will cost the Democrats the presidency, and possibly congress, in 2020.
1
When debating family members, and friends about Trump I’m always amazed how they “parrot” GOP talking points. It’s almost as if they don’t apply logic to any issue. Basically they have made up their minds and FACTS aren’t going to change it.
3
Hope the Democrats read this article carefully. If the country is to make a change in the White House it will be necessary to develop a platform that all Americans can find in large part acceptable. Right now the ideas of free college, forgiven student loans, Medicaid for all (Americans largely already have health plans through employers) and most importantly the appearance of relaxed immigration policy are turn offs for more people than not. The more the Dems let these aforementioned issues dominate their offense against Trump the deeper they dig their hole. (By the way with a recently announced $350 billion increase in the deficit it’s hard to imagine how they would deliver on these programs without fatal political fallout.)
Suggest they ignore Trump’s diversion politics tactics and the man himself (he seems to hate being ignored) and focus on building and selling a realistic platform. Remember Trump still has over a year to self destruct (probably by means of foreign policy).
5
Racism is not only some horrible act committed by one group against another (although that occurs every day), Racism is also the performance of skepticism directed at one group and a favorable attitude towards another.
Microaggressions and solidarity pertaining to the growth of an unfavorable perspective by many who utilize skepticism as a tool for increasing solidarity, are the foundation of an exponentially growing sense of racial supremacy.
2
I've read many comments here and can't help but shake my head. People (and by people, I mean Democrats) should see what Trump is and accept that he unfortunately has a lot of support, or they can just pretend it all doesn't exist, or is massively overblown, or that is shouldn't exist because it's wrong. They'll have the satisfaction of thinking that they are morally correct while being factually incorrect.
If anyone believes the "go back" thing is new, they've lived in a protected bubble their entire lives and think the bubble is America. It isn't. I've had "go back" said to me repeatedly over the course of my life. What Trump understood was how pervasive this sentiment is throughout America, and not just in places like Huron, Michigan. Drive a few hours north or east of New York City and you'll find plenty of people happy to say it to you if you're different.
We hear the word privilege used constantly, but one must wonder what kind of privileged life people pushing back against a fundamental reality have lived as a truly enormous part of America, (and it is enormous), is xenophobic. It isn't just some problem of small mid-western towns. In my early twenties I met a family living in a very prosperous and supposedly Democratic suburb, who without blinking, referred to me as a "half-breed".
I suggest everyone grow up and deal with the world as it is. Do you actually want to beat Trump, or is it more important to deceive yourself, convince yourself you're right, and lose?
2
To achieve electoral victory, the Democrats will remind Americans that their policies are for all Americans, black, white and everyone in between, the wealthy and the struggling, the healthy and chronically ill, men and women, vocational and collegiate, and old and young. They will strive to make life better for all, not make life the best just for the few. Is it honorable to have a president whose steadfast support is only for dictators and the absolutely rich and powerful?
1
How funny that the people who have fallen for Trump's jingoism don't see the irony in his Make America Great Again slogan.
Trump has said so many negative things about this country in the past-shouldn't he be "sent back" as well?
3
My reason for donating to Klobuchar and Buttigieg is that I'm certain they can win Michigan. They aren't pompous blowhards or rigid ideologues from the coasts. They're substantive. They aren't Biden, who has seemed bizarrely out of it every time I've seen/heard him. The rest of the field (though I really like some, especially Inslee and Hickenlooper) seem out of contention.
We need a ticket that can restore civility and move the nation forward while extinguishing all the fires Trump has started. We need a ticket that can appeal to those at whom people on the coasts frequently sneer. I think we need Buttigieg/Klobuchar, Klobuchar/Buttigieg (Great Lakes candidates who can carry the Great Lakes) or something similar.
If the Michigan primary is limited to today's four main contenders, I'll vote for Harris--though I doubt she, Biden, Warren or Sanders can beat Trump. And if any of them does, they won't have the coattails to help Senate candidates win in the red/purple states to knock McConnell out of the Majority Leader's office.
3
Interesting article but, since this particular county is already sadly Republican, my assumption is that these people are, and have been, beyond reach anyway.
2
This article shows the folly of Democrats trying to appeal to the rural white working class (WWC) older voters. They will be, at best, indifferent to minority voters and are, although they don't admit it, racially and culturally intolerant.
Nate Silver of 538 has an article about how the Democrats could gain an electoral college advantage either by turning back the clock to win WWC voters (by nominating Biden or possibly Sanders) and be competitive in WI, MI, PA. Alternatively, they could concentrate on very diverse and urban voters by nominating Warren, Harris, Buttigieg or other progressives to be competitive in NC, FL, GA, AZ and TX (yes, Texas!). It seems like this latter strategy is more in line with Democratic values and where the party is moving.
2
Forty years ago Nixon called it the "Silent Majority," but it seems what is bothering most readers now is that they are no longer silent. Which is more disturbing: attitudes expressed in the article? or the article itself? Remember, the first step to solving a problem is recognizing that there is one. Much thanks to the authors for showcasing this issue. I, for one, would like to see more of these anthropological news articles, calling them "Conservatives in the Mist" (Stephen King's 'Mist' that is).
1
I mean the underlying racism has been there, Trump has just pulled the curtain back. The people supporting Trump on this aren’t going to vote for any Democrat.
I do think the Democratic Party has to get much closer to Bernie Sanders than Joe Biden on trade policy. Abandoning unions and ignoring the evidence that free trade in wealthy nations benefits corporations and their shareholders at the expense of labor, particularly low skill labor, has been catastrophic for the party in the industrial Midwest. (Comparative advantage theory says both nations benefit from free trade. It doesn’t say those benefits are equally shared. Google Stolper–Samuelson Theorem.)
This economic uncertainty is exploited by people like Trump who use immigrants as a scapegoat for those economic problems, thereby intensifying existing racial prejudices.
1
While I was appalled by Rep. Omar's anti-Semitic remarks, I stand by her right to say and think what she wants (as long as her comments do not encourage violence) - that is one of the beauties and benefits of living in the U.S. Pres. Trump to the contrary, Americans are free to criticize their country and to try to improve it, regardless of where they were born. His racist remarks and anti=immigration policies are an affront to the nation and all of its citizens. Moreover, his fear-mongering regarding universal health care is evil - he couldn't care less that millions of Americans without affordable comprehensive medical coverage fear getting ill because they can't pay the doctors' bills; he's never had to concern himself about such a problem. It's beyond me that people actually believe him when he says he feels their pain and understands their worries.
12
Gee, Mackinac Island was on my list of places to visit. No longer.
13
Mackinac Island is approximately 200 miles north of Port Huron and is a truly lovely place to visit. The people in this article do not represent Mackinac Island.
1
There is far too much coverage of what the minority within the minority think about Trump. PLEASE remember this: Trump got into the White House on 46.1% of the vote. Those who forgive anything he says or does, who make excuses as if he were some sort of god, are a minority within this minority.
If other presidents had been given this kind of sympathetic coverage, there is no doubt that some supporters would have ready made excuses for anything they did, though it is doubtful to the extent that Trump gets a pass on almost everything, including the outrages that come every week, sometimes day by day.
The major national news media is playing politics with this coverage because it is evident that they are afraid of the MAGA hats and afraid that they don't truly understand "middle America". Look, there are smart people who support Trump and there are many dumb, uninformed people, just as with every president. We don't need to have constant coverage of those blinded by Trump, his television "celebrity" and the big lie that he was some sort of business genius. What we need to know is what the majority of citizens think and are saying about this mess.
17
"To win while he remains widely unpopular — his approval rating is consistently less than 50 percent in national opinion polls — voters don’t need to like him as much as they need to dislike the Democratic nominee." Bingo. It's why Trump won against Hillary in 2016, and why he will most likely win against any "identity" left Democratic candidate in 2020.
Political truths are often harsh truths. In hindsight, "The Squad" may well be remembered as a key, even necessary, part of Trump's 2020 reelection strategy. And so far, it looks like he's onto a winner.
Which is why I suspect the only opponent he truly fears is Biden.
28
Nah. Just because Fox News runs their mouth about The Squad all day, doesn't mean Trump can dictate the election like that. This isn't Russia. This isn't 2016 and protip, he won only 46 percent of the vote. No do overs.
Conservative voters are going to vote for Trump no matter what. There is no line that he can cross that will drive them away. He often looks to be actively trying to find one.
so it makes no sense to dwell on what those voters will do. it is known. What matters is whether everyone else will show up and return a modicum of sanity, decency, and merit to the oval office.
At this point if Trump hasnt driven you away, why would anyone else really want you?
28
@ajv
That's what I'm counting on. But you better hope not. Meet the Press recently said on their Data Download segment that half of all Democrats are conservatives. But you'd never know given all the noise a certain minority of radical liberals are making. As matter of fact, just Trump's 65 and over voters are twice the size of the radical Libs. But those people are stuck in their echo chambers and think they're gonna win the election. It's actually pretty hilarious to me.
2
As a Democrat I worry about the party moving too far left and alienating undecided voters (if there are any) and independents. Medicare for undocumented immigrants for example, is not emblematic of a “big tent” policy and seems to serve only as an antithetical response to Trump.
If the Democrats are going to win, they need to listen to the concerns of the majority of Americans and ignore the political noise that only Washington cares about.
20
We can hem and haw about what it all means and how it got this way, but it basically comes down to bad education. I grew up in rural Michigan, and I can remember people voting for Bush over Kerry because in their view, Bush had served in Vietnam while Kerry hadn't. Of course, the opposite was true, but that doesn't stop people from believing what they want. That cop in Louisiana who wanted to shoot AOC was responding to a fake news post that suggested AOC had said military members need to take a pay cut. Of course she did not say that, but it doesn't matter. These folks are confusing basic facts and they will continue to do so until we actually care more about educating our rural poor.
36
I'm struck how in this part of America - abutting up against Canada - the sentiments are so strongly anti-immigrant. I wonder if the residents of Port Huron are seeing throngs of "undocumented immigrants" swimming across from Canada or queuing up on the bridges and rushing the CBP stations. Of course not. So, exactly why the whipped up emotion?
Maybe this is a sentiment against everything which has gone wrong in Detroit, Flint, Saginaw, and then looking across into Canada, many non-white people and many religious faiths. It's a culture shock for this part of Michigan. Corruption in Detroit, Flint, and Saginaw from previous African-American politicians irks people in Michigan, but corruption from Trump's Administration gets a pass. This is inconsistent.
Michigan's residents are irritated by how their premier industry - transportation - has been overtaken by Asian, German, and Italian corporations, including the Supply Chain, and watching how large GM and Ford struggled. This is global capitalism at work when manufacturing is moved to low cost labor platforms (Mexico); technology shifts (E's) change everything, too.
But rather than stay "stuck" in the past two decades, I'd urge Michigan residents - especially those in the manufacturing sector - to demand to know what has Trump done to deliver on infrastructure building promises - something which had bipartisan support. Not a peep from Trump - a failed promise.
It's been nothing but corruption, criminality, incompetence,
20
As Pogo famously said, "We have met the enemy and he is us."
Sometimes we are forced to look behind our national myths and realize that we are not the peaceful, Constitution-loving, Jesus-spirited people whom we claim to be.
28
My wife is a grandchild of Asian immigrants, born in the USA. When I first met her, I thought questions (not mine) like "where do you come from" were innocuous curiosity. She would answer "Detroit" and people would say "before that?" and she would say "nothing before that, that's where I was born." It was a while before I realized how upsetting those questions were.
At least she didn't face people telling her to go back to where she came from. Are those questions racist? If they are asked because she is of a different race, yes they are. Is the questioner racist? Not consciously, I would say. They don't mean harm but they show they are not fully accepting that Asians can be Americans.
16
It was political criticism plain and simple...no one says go back then come back and show us how it’s done and have Pelosi arrange your travel...the biased media always leaves out the come back and show us part of Trump’s tweet. The full context is always missing.
9
After hearing that Warren is ready to send the economy into a recession and even predicts it...there is no way I’m going to let any Dems near my taxes or mess with my job!
11
@Charlie I am selling up my shares now, before the recession happens, predicted for 2020.
2
I was on a work assignment last year in central Michigan. It's a sad place. When you listen to the locals regurgitate all the FOX News propaganda they've been listening to for years, you know that they aren't really thinking Americans. They are "fans" of some strange libertarian notions about life. Never mind, their children are leaving in droves, and the economic future of a lot of Michigan doesn't look good. Perhaps Michiganders should start using their heads and realize that none of the policies of the current administration are designed to make their lives better.
34
@mrfreeze6
Are you missing the big picture...maybe?
Auto workers, unionized, .... then financially busted.
Big brother(s): The union, the government, ... all left them adrift. Institutions with super tight Democratic connections horribly failed them.
In their opinion (the Michiganders) that's what happened.
And that's what matters.
1
One of the persons interviewed for this piece said that he finds the 'Squad' extreme because of their anti-Israrel policies. I'm genuinely curious: why is a voter in rural Michigan giving so much importance to Israel? It can't be simply because Israel is a US ally. There are far closer US allies whom Trump has insulted and alienated. Peek just north of Michigan for starters. Not to mention UK, Germany, France, Japan, etc. etc. What is this particular fascination with Israel?
29
If these people can’t see racism when it’s staring them in the face, there is no way you can reason with them. I only pray there are more of us then there are of them in the states that will decide the next election. And frankly, I’m not optimistic.
12
Once again, we see the racism present in America. The people mentioned in this article will never admit they are racists but their words show they are. They are scared of the "other", "letting too many people in" and "of the Squad being anti-Israeli" (not understanding criticism of current Israeli policy and Netanyahu is not anti-Israeli). In the article, Fred Miller states "I think a lot of other people see themselves in Trump,”. In other words, they are racists and the racism of Trump makes them comfortable with their racism. The most baffling to me is the woman that is an Air Force vet that supports Trump. He trashed American POWs during the 2016 campaign and insulted a Gold Star family. He views the military as his own personal instrument to boost his ego. How any former or active duty service member can support Trump is something I will never comprehend.
22
@Patrick -- No, he specifically trashed John McCain, not POWs in general, because he didn't like John McCain. Many conservative Republicans didn't like McCain. He wondered whether the mother of the soldier killed in action was silent in deference to her husband, as a Muslim. Unlike the anti-Trump media, most military members are smart enough not to extrapolate a single insult to an individual to an entire group of people. Most military members and vets support Trump. Before you rush to add that Trump never served in the military, neither did Obama, Clinton, or George W. Bush.
2
@PL Trump said specifically "I like people who weren't captured". He did not mention McCain solely. Maybe you do not agree but people refers to many individuals not one person.
During the Vietnam war we heard the same refrain: Love it or Leave it. In fact, anyone who loves the US should be complaining, and loudly.
24
I'm sure it's shocking to any disinterested reader that Trump would use the office of the President of the United States to launch dishonest attacks on fellow Americans -- specifically sitting congresswomen -- with lies, hate and, at base, utterly demagogic language.
Republican voters seem able, at best, to tut-tut about the violent language, and yet seem utterly willing to mindlessly parrot the lies and slander, with zero thought about finding out the actual truth to the matter.
What do they believe in? From their own responses, from the reaction at campaign rallies, it seems to have nothing to do with policy, polity, or any reasoning vision of our mutual future. Instead, one is forced to believe, it's all about the short-term gain -- less about the future of the country or the world beyond "what's in it for me?"
Shame on them all, each and every one.
17
The people who think that Trump is doing a good job are beyond the reach of Democrats. The ignorance that enables voters to think that this man is a competent, moral human being is so enormous that nothing the Democrats can do will change their minds. They are beyond reason and critical thinking. The only hope to unseat this awful president is to present a likable candidate. Qualifications are not enough. Clinton was immensely qualified, but people didn't like her. I know that liking a candidate is not sufficient reason to vote for that candidate, but that is what many voters do. Many voters know little to nothing about the issues, but that doesn't stop them from voting for the person they like. Intelligent, competent, moral candidates do count a fig unless they are liked. It's a shame that our democracy is based on liking or not liking a person that none of us really know but are only acquainted with through the public persona presented, but that's the way it is.
15
@Jack -- oh, please. They are beyond reason and critical thinking? The people who think Trump is doing a good job see jobs returning to their communities, wages rising, unemployment at the lowest point in decades, their taxes cut, and their retirement stock portfolios through the roof. You keep your critical thinking about the immorality of his latest comments. His supporters are living the reality of the results of his good work.
2
What these voters are missing is that this country was literally founded on the freedom to criticize the government and politicians. They don't have to like it but to say they aren't welcome when frankly they are more American than Mr. Trump who insists his way is the only way.
Of course he spent years criticizing Mr. Obama's sheer existence. Basically not just telling him to go home but that he didn't belong here in the first place.
That's why I can't take any Trump supporter seriously or accept they have an ability to think. Fine, disagree with those women. They're strident, they tweet before they think they have what might be considered radical ideas. We get that. But that's what they got elected on, they are serving their constituents and if they are unhappy they will not be returned to Congress.
Supporting Trump is no longer about wanting change or being listened to. It's embracing the harshest rhetoric our language provides. It's hatred of those you have deemed lesser beings than you, arrogance run amok.
There may not be a decent fix to those wanting to come to our country. If you're poor and you think you can improve your life, you will come. But to demonize them is a mind that has lost its heart.
9
I don’t get it. What did these 4 Congressional women do that was so wrong to deserve the wrath of all these white Republicans? I’m a lifelong Republican, but I still don’t see what these women did that was so wrong.
17
Odd that Trump, a 2nd generation immigrant is so quick to condemn. Meanwhile, other wealthy countries spend half as much per person on health than the U.S. spends.
Reviewing photos of those interviewed, they don't look twice as healthy for what we are spending.
Obnoxious, rude tweets from the President are not making us any better.
9
I just spent the last few minutes reading this article - and only because I'm originally from Michigan - but it was a bit of waste. Does anyone really think Trump's latest ethnic vitriol might backfire among self-identified conservatives? During the campaign, he circulated a smirking photo of himself with a taco plate and a caption reading "I like Mexicans." If that didn't backfire then nothing will. The Republicans have morphed into a party of shameless reactionaries and Theocrats. Why should I care what the denizens of Limbaughland think? The opinions that matter are those of the millions of Americans who work in the nation's sprawling corporate office parks and live in the suburbs - the Ikea demographic. The 2018 election suggests they're growing weary of the Republican dumpster fire.
11
@Adrienne AND Pat Tourney THANK YOU both for working hard to move America forward!
1
Wait, a few white, conservative folks in one MI county are buying Trump’s snake oil, and that shows how his divisive strategy may work? That is a huge leap, and a rather click-bait-y headline.
14
Nastiness is not a one way street .
The awful Trump language pales in comparison to the despicable anti Semitic utterances of Tlaib and Omar .
16
I have a question for Mr. Kovach. When Trump was savaging the Obama administration, why didn't Trump go back to Germany?
18
Indeed. Much of what Dems accuse Trump of is true. But his nature as a human being is much less scary than open borders, “free” everything, and politically correct fascism aimed primarily at whites and men.
11
@Longtime Japan. Exactly. I can't stand Trump. I cringe every time he opens his mouth. I wish Twitter would cancel his account. I truly hate what's happening to kids at the border. But the Democratic platform, and the Alinsky tactics of many progressives (e.g. isolate and personalize the target), are worse.
1
So in 2016, after a recount that started but was stopped, Trump won the state by 10,000 votes, maybe? In Detroit alone over 70,000 votes for president were not counted, but their down ballot choices were? NYT reporters need to visit Detroit and ask these voters how the feel about Trump and their plans for 2020!
6
Why is this even remotely newsworthy? Those foolish enough to vote for Trump in 2016 will surely do so again in 2020; Trump has not changed, and neither will his supporters.
11
Did these reporters speak to anyone under the age of 50?
16
------ I don't think this was a diverse selection of people in age or race or ethnicity.
We’ll be crossing the border at Port Huron this Saturday on our way to Georgian Bay. I think I’ll wait until we’re in Sarnia to buy gas.
8
@Richard
Gas is currently ~$1.28/L, which would make it about $4.80/gallon, so good luck with those principles. Either way, you're buying gas that was refined in Texas.
1
Come on NY Times, you can do better. The headline is provocative, the article lacks substance. What do the polls actually say? Are you interviewing those who are locked in for anyone but Trump? Are jobs really returning to MI? I don’t know the answers to these questions but it sure would be nice to read NEWS instead of punditry.
9
Simply speaking, it is obvious to Trump supporters that there is already a de facto path to citizenship. Enter the US illegally with children, wait for your deportation hearing that can take years and then fight deportation that will take another few years. During that time, have a few more children who gets birthright citizenship and claim dreamer status for the ones who came in illegally. With all that, claim family separation hardship to fight deportation.
Trump is the only person fighting this. Congress and Democrats in its inaction is prolonging this de facto path to citizenship and allowing millions of illegal immigrants to take this path. Liberal judges are also fighting Trump.
This simple fact is not lost to Trump supporters and we will continue to support Trump, regardless of how he is criticized. Also, we can see this illegal immigrants path to citizenship is not about racism. It is about respect for our Nation.
25
@Qcell ...or just marry a citizen as Trump´s wife did? She came here illegally, you know that, right? I never see his supporters up in arms over her murky immigration details, or those of her parents.
1
Dems, stop letting far left Freshman members of Congress control the narrative.
Start a new narrative. Hit back at Trump without alienating those who want to limit immigration. Run anti-Trump ads now that put fear in his base about cuts to healthcare and harm to their jobs, water supply and their grandchildren‘s future in the face of climate change.
28
Have heard this sentiment more lately- that regardless of his Tweets, the economy is doing well so it must be ...good? And will vote for him...I just roll my eyes in disbelieve, however they do feel this way, and are the other side of the voting population in America.(Approx. 65 mil + vs. almost 63 mil and 6 mil + for the other 2 in 2016)
So what is the other side doing in order to gain more of the popular vote? Conservative,centrist, moderate, left progressive, new to unite as a party?(but perhaps many in the democratic party likes the way the dem's are going....tonight we have a partisan budget bill that favors both party's(where are the people in this?).
Want to believe that Trump cannot win the EC again to the WH in 2020, but that also means the democrats and not just the status quo, need to stand up, unite and support financially and agenda wise, one candidate, the other voters will stand behind. Have my candidate,but it may not be yours.
It's the democrats to win or lose, or maybe they feel they don't really need the WH for their legislation agenda and policy, as it's the same as the republicans...money.
3
Right or left, the media and the public love sexy stories, tawdry stories, and high drama. There are a number of really good, smart, moderate candidates running on the Democratic side, but other than Joe Biden, none of them is being given the time of day by this paper or any other mainstream news organization. We hear of Trump's antics daily, and of the far left positions of four newly elected House members, and of Trump's reaction to their words, and of their retorts to his comments, ad nauseam. What we don't hear reported is who among our elected officials is actually doing a good job, who is honest, who works hard to truly represent the people. I guess this is for the same reason that we only read about train wrecks, not the trains that make it safely to their destination. The result, however, is further and further polarization, and utter disgust with politics among the general population. Together, these spell disaster for a democracy.
18
I'm from Michigan with a couple nearly unbearable years in Appalachian Ohio. Yes, I'm one of those "awoke" teenagers but then I was never stoned. In the largely rural rust belt, there was little illicit drug use. That was the big cities and on the coasts. Otherwise, we lived in peace with our neighbors, clear headed and talking to each other, living with each other, and respecting each other. Oh, we got the news of riots in Detroit, Chicago, LA, DC, and NYC. We talked about all that too. Most of us counted our lucky stars we didn't live in such areas. Guess it all depended on where and how you were raised.
8
This article shows the importance of why the US needs open borders. Port Huron is so close to Canada, but a majority of residents there still overwhelmingly approve of Trump? Obviously most people from Port Huron must not spend much time across the border in Canada.
7
Sure, of course it will work on people who already support Trump. Give up on the idea that any Democrat will win back Trump supporters, including Joe Biden.
9
Montreal Moe. America at its best? A booming economy and low employment? These owe nothing to the squad. On the contrary, the squad represents falsity: unaffordable promises of socialism and anti-corporate dogma, which do not lead to the economic growth and prosperity which you say makes people want to come to America. AOC’s great achievement so far, other than garnering a lot of publicity for herself, was to prevent Amazon from coming to New York City. Seems like she just shot her own constituents in the foot!
13
Michigan: 2,279,543 votes for Trump vs. 2,268,839 for HRC. Huge difference?
11
This is the best shape the country has been in since the Clinton Administration. That's why people are going to vote for him.
It's the Economy...
15
Wonder why the Fed is lowering rates...
3
@P&L I am about to sell up my Stocks and Shares, before the 2020 recession. Will you still vote for him if a recession happens?
I was born in 1945 and watched the country rise in stature. Now with Trump as President I am watching the rest of the west trying to find new leadership.
Shame on all of us for letting this happen.
17
Please run many more columns like this until the "Progressive" Dems wake up to reality. No more Squad, please. Instead, give us four Dems who FLIPPED districts in 2016! (Not one of the 'Squad.' did). Flipping a District from Republican to Democrat: THAT'S where reality is at, people. I want to hear from the real Front Line of the Democratic Party. Not from the Dem version of the Tea Party.
25
So Trump's supporters still support him, his approval is under water in Michigan, and he's trailing in districts that swung from Obama to Trump in '16? He might win Michigan and he might be re-elected...but the tone of this article is more negative than the facts that are actually in it.
8
"He supports veterans"?? Yes, apparently, by dodging the draft and insulting John McCain. I drove through Michigan a few days ago, all the way around from Escanaba and the Upper Peninsula to the border crossing at Sarnia -- there's a lot of beautiful wild country up there -- and with it the sentiment that somehow Trump is in their corner. But he isn't -- and never has been. I can only hope that the Dems can conjure up a candidate who knows these folks well enough to tell them the truth about the city slicker who's been passing from town to town ...
42
Thanks for traveling through our state. I hope you enjoyed yourself. As for Trump, I think lots of people wanted a strong GOP candidate, didn’t see one, didn’t vote. These same people listen to Trump and take his “facts” at face value and think it works for them, so they have decided to vote for him this time. Just wait until the lower tax brackets lose the tax cut while the rich retain theirs as scheduled. The economy won’t seem so rosy, but these folks won’t get that news delivered to them. Life in the bubble can be frustrating at times.
4
I'm also in Paul Mitchell's district. I'll be going to my first Democratic party meeting next month. Vote blue, Michigan!
29
Someone needs to remind these Trump voters what it means to be an American apart from one's leadership and policy preferences.
8
First before I say anything I have to say I don't like these 4 women.
Not because they are women of color as liberals call them.
It because of the things they do.
Maybe I am wrong as my knowledge on the issues could be lacking.
It is my impression that these 4 women aren't just 4 people out of a larger number of people who are like them.
If they were I would agree that selecting these 4 would be racist.
I see these 4 as having very little to do with anyone else .
I therefore believe it is very appropriate to attack them as a group.
It was wrong to suggest they had no right to be in the government because they were elected.
However I do agree that they are bad for the country.
I therefore understand why a voter can agree with Trump even if they disagree with the words that he used and why it is wrong to call them all racist.
I will never vote for Trump but I will not vote for anyone who believes these 4 women are right.
These 4 women if they want to defeat Trump will stop what they are doing but if they don't they should either be ignored or rejected by the Democratic party not defended by them especially by the candidates who are running to get their party nomination.
13
Port Huron won't matter if poor people in Detroit, and Flint, and Pontiac and college students in Ann Arbor vote.
19
My takeaway: Trump supporters either don't see, don't understand or don't care about the country's lurch toward nationalism/nativism. But they sure do seem to fear socialism. Fox News and Radio Right have their fingerprints on this irony.
356
@Tony Bickert There is every reason to be proud of and thankful for the US's accomplishments. Accordingly, a Socialist/Communist revolution in the USA could be unbelievably devastating and violent. We could be eating tree bark and our pets within 5 years of a Socialist/Communist revolution, millions dying in the streets. It sounds outlandish and that's precisely the point. The failures of Socialism/Communism are so stark that people struggle to believe the facts.
24
@Tony Bickert
Trump voters fear socialism but love their Social Security checks and Medicare.
47
@Tony Bickert it is not nativism when you are opposed to millions of people taking advantage of loopholes in our immigration system. Yes, millions have and continue to come into our Nation illegally with children. They wait years for their deportation hearing and then fight the deportation for years when ordered deported. In the meantime, they have children with birthright citizenship and claim dreamer status for the ones who came with them. Then when finally being deported they claim hardship of family separation for themselves. Opposing this is not nativism.
13
Donald Trump’s re-election Strategy is the same Winning ploy used by Narendra Modi in Indian Elections - divert the Opposition’s attacks on Modi’s Anti-People Actions as Attacks on the Nation. The Opposition in India Failed to counter Modi’s ploy & Modi won Inspite of 5 years of gross Misrule & Misery of the Common People. And Democrats have so far Failed to counter Donald Trump’s ploy with alternate Mind-grabbing ploy advancing their Agenda. Simply responding to Trump’s tweets is only advancing Trump’s ploy.
134
@S Venkatesh I wonder just what qualifies as a ploy. Is a proposal for improved health care a ploy? Is a plan for protecting our elections from foreign influence a ploy? Can anything of substance be a ploy, or are we doomed to be governed by the winner of a shadow boxing contest?
10
@Orthoducks, I agree the word ploy evokes negative reactions. It is apt mostly in the world of Elections where a world of Good can be easily drowned by catchy phrase hiding a long record of Devilry. Improved coverage of healthcare is nice but not top priority for most voters. Protecting Elections from foreign influence is OK but barely 50% voters even care to vote. Narendra Modi claiming only he can Save India from Attacks by Pakistan is a Fire-in-the-belly Winning ploy for gaining votes from even the most educated Indians. Even if Maximum Indian soldiers have lost their lives in border clashes under Modi regime in last 72 years. Who knows that data ? Who even wants to know data ?
4
@S Havinh talked to Modi voters of many classes I found that they voted for his pro poor welfare schemes and for his emphasis on national security against Pak‘s overt and covert attacks. I don’t know in what sense these are ploys
1
Dear NYT - How is this front-page news? The article, summarized in one sentence, is "Trump is racist, and his base supports him". We've known this for several years now. Try writing articles on the border crisis. That is actual front-page news.
32
Presidencies are about much more than policies. Presidential leadership is rooted in his/her(someday) ability to speak to the hearts of the voters.
President Trump speaks to the hearts of millions of Americans. All the investigations, the charges of corruption, the success or failures do not matter one iota to millions of Americans nor affect his leadership.
This president understands and speaks to his audience of voters better than any president since FDR. The approval of this president, his statements and actions is a reflection of the beliefs and feelings of millions of Americans.
His popularity says a lot about the American people.
I fully expect this president to win with a commanding majority of electoral votes in 2020.
We, as a country, get the president that we deserve as a country. May God Bless America.
5
Fact: He did not and still don’t have the support of most Americans. More voters voted for Hillary than Trump.
2
@JGM Agreed. If one takes away The vote in Calif. and NY, Mr. Trump had more total votes than Hillary in the remaining 48 states.
But he garnered about 70,000 more votes than Mrs. Clinton in Penn., Mich., and Wisc.
These states provided Mr. Trump with his margin of victory.
Nonetheless, tens of millions of Americans are in sync with this president which will likely pave his way to victory in 2020.
1
Here are the words of a Trump supporter quoted in the column:
"But I don’t think that viewpoint is a racist viewpoint. I think it’s — quit the bitching, if you don’t like it, do something different about it.”
Isn't that exactly what the 4 women are trying to do?
56
Yes, voters do not want to abolish the ACA, and they also want to vote for Republicans who do. Opposed to Medicare for all, while favoring coverage for pre-existing conditions, they favor Trump's plan, even as he has no plan.
The choice should be easy. Just stay home on election day.
14
The most shocking thing about the Trump effect is how it revealed the existence of so many racists within the boomer generation. So much for the racially woke teen agers of the sixties and seventies. I stand ashamed of so many peers that it’s sad to even think about it.
55
You nailed it. I keep thinking what happened to the "Hippie Generation"? The protests against war? The treatment of border refugees? Wealth inequality?
We regress a decade every year.
1
If America, still in our infancy, be about nothing else, at least it should be about collective learning. Then, in solidarity with and along side these fellow Americans, oppressed black folks and women and LGBTQ and immigrants and marginalized ethnic groups, and privileged white folks all need a safe space to speak their piece, and learn together.
It's not too late for such Town Hall meetings to occur (nonpartisan and nondenominational). If this Trumpian moment is not a lesson fulfilled, it can only be a lesson undone.
2
Does anyone else but Trump supporters matter to the New York Times? Weekly, readers get the same articles. When we finally get pieces on Democratic candidates; we get the Bernie can't; the Biden can't, the Kamala- perhaps...
These are just versions of the Clinton & Trump mashup of 2016.
The dynamic is getting old.
31
No, the dynamics are actually quite realistic.
4
Why do so many men show up in these articles? Usually twice as many men are quoted than women in my humble estimation as die hard supporters of Trump who may cringe at the tweets but will vote for him again. Under age 35? They never appear in these Trump supporter articles.
17
@Tanya
Excellent point. Am embarrassed that I did not notice this sex imbalance.
2
Looking beyond whether Trump's tweets were racist, I think Trump has hit on something that is particularly troubling for many Americans: the rampant anti-patriotism of the Democratic Party.
It has become common on the Left to bash America and talk about how awful everything is. It's really hard to hear anything when many Democrats are busy bashing the Founders, removing statues, and correcting people's language.
When you look at all the winning presidential candidates in in recent memory, they all had positive messages. Obama & Hope. Bush & Compassionate Conservatism. Reagan & Morning in America. Even Trump's message--I know you won't agree with me--had a positive vibe to it: "Let's Make America Great Again!"
Nobody likes voting for a pessimist. If Democrats want to win, they need to temper the more extreme elements of their party that drown out their message.
21
@Colin
Trump did not have a positive message in 2016 and he continues to paint a dark, negative picture of America. Many commentators highlighted the fact that his negativity was unusual for a winning candidate. His message was clearly that America was in terrible condition and only he could make America great.
26
@Colin:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but Trump continuously expressed egregious, unfounded complaints re the US, until he was president (he still does, though). The list is too long for this medium.
Even his catch-phrase assumes the place needs fixing up (more than ever, now that he holds the reigns).
15
Who among the Democrats are bashing the Founders? And were the Founders perfect? No. Sir, patriotism is not about worshipping our flag nor our country, it’s about fighting for TRUTH, JUSTICE and our democracy!
Patriotism is about fighting against tyranny! How is Trump obstructing Congress and refusing to allow his administration and staff to honor subpoenas ...patriotic?!
How is Trump’s bashing an American hero, John McCain, patriot?! How is Trump siding with and believing Putin over our own Intelligence Services patriotic?
Patriotism IS speaking out, it’s also recognizing when our country CAN DO BETTER! And challenging Americans to do better!
11
The four members of congress to whom Trump is being his usual racist self have one thing on their side that he can't say. They were elected by a majority of their constituents.
33
The majority of their constituents didn’t vote at all. They won in gerrymandered deep blue districts and had little to no opposition.
16
@Katieo A problem that will continue, thanks to a conservative majority on the SCOTUS. That conservative majority was made possible when Mitch McConnell refused to hold confirmation hearings for an appointee, in defiance of a duly elected president.
6
Trump won Macomb county by 11.5%. He trails a generic Democrat in current polls in that county by 2%. That's a swing of 50,000 votes. He won in St. Clair county by more than 30%. Of course, he's going to win again in St. Clair county, but that won't help him win Michigan.
141
@John Allen. From your mouth to God’s ears . . . .
10
I hope you are right. If I prayed about stuff like this, I would do that also. We 40 million Californians feel quite hopeless.
7
@John Allen
I pray you are correct. Mr T. has tapped into white people’s hidden sentiments in a very clever way that is appalling to moderates but attracts those with hidden or subconscious agendas that may not even be clear to them.
11
If you’re a true conservative, you respect the Constitution which protects free speech.
Trump’s job is to protect and defend the Constitution, which allows the same kind of dissent he expressed during the Obama presidency.
Now that he’s president, Trump, who cannot stomach criticism, wants to suggest that anyone who is as unhappy as he once was should leave, rather than protecting their right to dissent. Trump’s speech is encouraging supporters to call for the deportation of political dissenters, and inviting policemen whose job is also to serve and protect to call for the assassination of a sitting member of Congress.
This is where Trump has brought us thus far in 2 1/2 years.
I’m not sure what the people in MI, WI, PA or elsewhere are thinking, but they sure as heck are NOT conservatives.
314
@Tell the Truth--please dont try and tell me trump hasn't faced the most criticism and more actual hatred than any other US president. That being said, it is pursuant to the 1st amendment and the concept of free speech. Since people want to dish that out at him, which is their constitutional right, if they want to dish it out, they better be willing to take it also. And "the squad" loves to dish, and then immediately plays the race card. I'm sorry but my grandmother always said, you can't have your cale and eat it too. Fair is fair.
15
@bored critic
The "squad" are four young women who have spoken out with the fervor of the young. They have received death threats for speaking out. The race card is an equal opportunity hammer; we should ignore it on both sides. It is insulting, and drags civil discourse into the gutter. There are legitimate policy differences; let's hear them. I do not want to see the "stable genius" keep his office based on slander, hate chants, bigotry, and no known policies, other than a huge tax cut for his rich cronies.
24
@bored critic - just a quick reminder that four US presidents have been assassinated. A little more than Mr. Trump has had to deal with.
19
Their 'support' is nothing more than white cultural anxiety on full display.
219
I know conservative Michigan, I know Port Huron and I understand the anger frustration and misgivings and I know the lies and misinformation they have been fed and I know the origins of the reactionary and self destructive behaviour.
The squad represents not the worst of America but America at its very best. A booming economy, low unemployment and more jobs than workers is the story of the Bronx, Minneapolis, Detroit and Atlanta. Port Huron isn't getting better and more than likely never will. China is building a hundred new cities of over a million because that is what China needs to become the new world leader.
Port Huron's children have no future that will give them a better quality of life than their grandparents if they stay. The Squad represents an America that can see and taste a better future for their children and grandchildren.
A recent trip to American cities revealed the wealth and opportunity that feeds the desire so many to get to America. Those inner cities that were a short time ago struggling to survive are clean safe and every day represent more of the wealth American hegemony generates.
The Squad represents the America that once was, the America that promised safety , security , educational opportunities and rewarding lives. Red America knows it cannot compete and elects representatives they know will tear down rather than build up. The Squad's America wants America and their share of opportunity and security. The best Red America can hope for is Russia.
528
@Montreal Moe,
Been to L.A. recently?
10
@JRS
No.
What about LA should I know? Did they elect an Alexandria Octavio Cortez. Did they vote for an American future?
21
@Montreal Moe having been to many overpopulated countries I’d strongly suggest that you visit some in the immediate future and then tell us how it should be.
15
I live not far from Port Huron, where my mother-in-law was so happy to see that our town, Rochester Hills, is 98% white. Of course, just like President Trump, she is not racist, just happy to live in a neighborhood that must be safe since it's almost all white. I moved here from San Francisco, and upon first arriving, I thought I'd traveled back in time to the 1950s, realtors were still redlining, so the willingness to support a racist President does not surprise me. Though I did think the supposed Christian Midwest would not support a man as morally bankrupt as Trump, but I got that wrong.
177
This IS what racism looks like. This is how evil dictators come to power. Why do these voters want to fool themselves? It isn’t going to make any problems go away. Scapegoating races is a poor attempt to excuse Trump’s failure to resolve the real problems: incompetence and income disparity.
183
Michigan (like North Carolina and Georgia) can still make the choice to be a prosperous, modern state. Or not.
It has all the ingredients of success: a rebounding metropolis, a well-respected university, tourism etc. But it has all the ingredients for failure as well - rural voters with retrograde views, poor management (Flint!), and idle middle aged former workers.
C'mon Michigan - make the right choice. Invest in the future, not the past. Opt for policies and candidates that support prosperity, not austerity. Choose the Democrats.
439
@Cousy
As a Michigan resident from a more liberal area of the state, I can assure you that we are working very hard to keep the momentum from 2018 when we flipped many state-wide districts from red to blue. The reporter could have interviewed people from Ann Arbor, Oakland County, or Detroit for a different view but chose to stick with rural whites in Port Huron. I for one am tired of all the articles centered around Trump's ignorant, racist base.
268
@Cousy We're trying! Nationally, we did flip 2 republican congressional seats over to the Dems. And, we voted in a Democratic Governor, Atty General, and Secretary of State. Still have to deal with the near-supermajority Republican statehouses though. The "thumb" is the reddest district in the state, so this story isn't exactly news. Just sayin'.
61
@Pat Tourney
Pat and Adrienne - you have my thanks and full support in all your efforts. It's not just about what is good for the nation - I want what's best for Michigan too!
36
The cognitive dissonance is staggering.
254
@Michael Would any of this actually cause cognitive dissonance if they don't realize that two thoughts are inconsistent with one another? There's a critical thinking void in this country. I don't believe a lot of his supporters realize exactly how un-American they are being supporting a wannabe dictator and white supremacist. I realize how dismissive that might be on my part. But, I no longer underestimate exactly how stupid an American can be these days. Especially in any thought related to politics.
27
@Michael
You saw this in WaPo? You're right on the money.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/the-psychological-phenomenon-that-blinds-trump-supporters-to-his-racism/2019/07/18/29789344-a8ac-11e9-ac16-90dd7e5716bc_story.html?utm_term=.0393b89048b8
6
This article demonstrates only that Trump supporters support Trump. The important fact is whether there are enough Trump supporters to win an election.
Why are the media constantly searching out Trump supporters in rural or suburban white areas to confirm the tautology that they support Trump rather than asking someone in the majority what they think?
Certainly the media reinforce the opinions of Trump supporters that they matter more than the rest of us and that we have Trump until they say otherwise.
I swear, if I see on more interview of white rural retirees eating their late breakfast at a diner, without anyone bothering to go into the kitchen and asking THEIR opinions I’m going to lose it.
1901
@Yeah The media and the Times included are corporations who fear progressive policies because they think that their profits will decline. So they favor the opinions of Trump supporters as a way to convince the DFL that they must denounce the progressives in their party and move to the right. It's been that way long before Trump slithered out of the ooze. The DFL for it's part has complied with this request by the corporations and refuse to pursue true progressive policy, becoming essentially the second conservative party. Many people, as can be seen in Michigan are well trained serfs who are clueless about the facts but have an ingrained tendency to be compliant followers. They prefer to follow absolute authority rather than be free to suffer from their own poor decisions.
77
The NYT used to be known as the epitome of journalism, but its decline into being the mouthpiece of the Democratic Party is all too apparent—and disappointing. Is there a world beyond bashing Trump? From reading the NYT one would hardly know it.
For example, in this column the authors assert that Trump told the squad “to go back” where they came from without actually giving readers the opportunity to see what Trump said and judge for themselves whether the comments were racist; he said:
“So interesting to see ‘Progressive’ Democrat Congresswomen (the squad), who originally came from countries whose governments are a complete and total catastrophe, the worst, most corrupt and inept anywhere in the world, now loudly and viciously telling the people of the United States, the greatest and most powerful Nation on earth, how our government is to be run. Why don’t they go back and help fix the totally broken and crime infested places from which they came. Then come back and show us how it is done.”
Contrary to the assertions, I think a lot of voters of all races, religions and ethnic origins do not find this statement racist, but rather a direct challenge to members of the squad to recognize and ameliorate the numerous challenges extant in their own ancestral lands before being so quick to condemn the US.
Indeed, I think the author and the NYT themselves are open to criticism for failing to mention and condemn the squad’s ongoing attacks against Israel.
43
@Yeah
I agree with your implication that the press is doing a poor job.
It’s not that the opinions Of Trump supporters “matter more than the rest of us” But it’s that their VOTES do matter more thanks to the electoral college
BIAS.
70
Those progressives are our only hope.
7
Given the Squad membership’s exceedingly low favorability polling, if Squad members are your best hope then you are in deep trouble.
6
He’s running the 2016 gameplan all over again. So are the democrats. People see a jerk. Who accomplished what Republicans always said they would accomplish. In Democrats they see unlikable Socialists. Democrats better realize they are playing the same game again and change their behavior if they want to win.
Democrats erupt in disgust at Trump when he provokes them. Some see it as a sign that Trump is doing something right if the left is complaining and that increases his voter turnout. Same gameplan as four years ago.
Who’s senile??
5
So you went to Port Huron and spoke to : White, White, White and White in a part of the state that is known to hold socially and fiscally conservative views. Are you surprised that these people are saying that they will support Trump despite his obvious efforts to drive a racial wedge into our society ?
Try a poll in the Detroit suburbs. Try Dearborn, Bloomfield Hills, Ann Arbor, Rochester, Farmington Hills, Sterling Heights, Auburn Hills and let us know what the sentiments are
18
I suppose it would be less troubling if those who expose the successes of the Trump years, or of the man himself relied on fact rather than perception or fantasy, but they never do. Either they all benefit in some way to the rampart corruption of every crevice of governing bodies and the institutions the nation id held together with, or they really are as dumb as Bill Maher has been saying for the last three years. We all know Trump is a buffoon and a clever con, but what does this say about those who stick by his side regardless of how deep in the muck he's willing to go?
7
It is unbelievable that I have to keep saying this, but here we go again.
1. Most whites gave up on the Democratic Party after LBJ let blacks move in next door.
2. Any Democrat who wants their votes is no better than Trump.
3. We already tried to beat Trump with a moderate and look where that got us.
Repeat this like a mantra every time you read one of these stories written by a fretful, coastal moderate who flies from LaGuardia to Detroit in the morning, then rents a car to drive up to Saginaw, walks into the first diner he finds, asks a bunch of white retirees what they think about AOC, then makes it back to DTW before the last flight out.
8
@Walter Bruckner
So you are saying the we should have a party for POC and a party for whites? It is not unbelievable that you keep saying what you say. It is unbelievable that you think it will make sense to others.
Hmm. White uneducated voters gave us trump because they had grievances. So they got what they wanted but they're still mad. I don't get it.
21
When undocumented immigrants leave their countries Trump says they should stay and make changes. When American citizens want to make changes they’re told to leave. Not only is he a buffoon but he’s an inconsistent buffoon.
21
The Squad is a distraction. It is not even the most important distraction, in spite of Trump's attempts to promote them.
The real issue is the 2020 candidates:
-Those that say let's decriminalize the border.
-Let's provide Health Care for undocumented immigrants.
-Those that advocate getting rid of the existing, employer paid, Health Care insurance.
-Those that seem to put more effort into helping undocumented foreigners, rather than the US working class
I will vote for the Democrat candidate, but they are making it awfully hard for me.
8
I think Medicare for All will help Americans who will no longer be dependent on employers to provide health insurance.
Free community college education or vocational training will also help most Americans since most families have at least one person who wants to go to college.
$15 minimum wage likewise will help because
most American families have at least one person who works a low wage job.
6
@El Lucho
Exactly. You could throw in reparations for good measure. Where are the responsible Democratic candidates? I thought Pete B would show some courage here but he seems content to just go along with the mob. So disappointing.
The Electoral College system has made sure that places such as Port Huron will play an outsized role in 2020. Dems should nominate someone who will score electoral college votes. Far left agenda isn't the way to the White House. Its the way to 2016 all over again. When will the Dems realize that large swathes of the country, accounting for hefty EC votes can not be persuaded on points of social justice or climate change.
7
Here's a scary scenario but not implausible: The GOP retakes the House in 2020, widens its margin in the Senate and Trump is re-elected to a second term with a great percentage of the vote than in 2016.
Impossible? Short of an economic meltdown or getting us into a disastrous war, a continued strong economy, exceptionally low unemployment coupled with Trump's strategy to vilify the Democrats by chaining the them to the most radical members of the party will swing enough voters in the GOP' favor.
The issue is not Right vs. Left, "Conservative" vs. "Liberal." The U.S. is not and never has been a country with radical ambitions. We are a nation of moderate change and progress. And given the opportunity to choose between a radical change in direction -- Medicare-for-all, free college tuition, eliminating student debt -- or assurance of the status quo, a majority of voters in the key conservative swing states will hold their noses and vote for Trump.
Most of us aren't comfortable with with the prospect of government-funded benefits; most of us want want the promise that we will have a decent opportunity to provide for ourselves and our families, that our labor will be fairly rewarded and the law applied equally to all -- the liberal society conserved.
4
I don’t understand. Medicare for All would help most American families. Why would would you want to be dependent on your employer for health insurance? You could lose your job.
Don’t most families have at least one person who wants to go to college? Don’t most families have at least one person who is heavily in debt for high interest student loans?
Investing in the health and education of Americans would bring far greater dividends than throwing more trillions at our bloated military industrial complex.
9
@Zejee
Politics is not about crafting the "best" policy and expecting everyone to vote for it. You need to acknowledge that there are many reasons for people to believe what they do, and that there is a great diversity of opinion out there. Think about winning, not about advocating for exactly what you want.
Like every other source of news, the NYT does its share of misleading and generalizing. I am very tired of articles and polls and newscasts that include interviews with 5 people who "might" represent an entire State and "might" show that Trump can win again. I appreciate knowing what people in other parts of the country are thinking. I would also appreciate reporting on Senate races. It would make my day just to know that someone, anyone, in South Carolina and Kentucky wished losses for Lindsay Graham and Mitch McConnell. The former has become a pitiable puppet. The latter has manipulated and ignored the spirit of the Constitution by refusing to conduct the business of Congress.
6
“He has asked for a meeting with the president, hoping to add his voice to other Republicans who have urged Mr. Trump to restrain himself.”
That’s like trying to stop the sun from shining.
4
These folks are so altruistic, voting for tax cuts for rich folks, corporate charity, etc.
13
The article makes the salient point that the Democrats need a candidate that is actually “likable”. They don’t have one yet.
9
Elizabeth Warren is both like able and relatable.
4
@Mark
Radical and massively costly change is not a winning formula. Throw in her unwillingness to stand up to the open borders crowd and the identity politics zealots and you have a real problem with a majority of the electorate.
Trump and the Republicans are corrupt and willing to do anything to hold onto power. I am far more worried about what trump and McDonnell have done than what the ‘squad’ say they will do.
5
To paraphrase: The left takes Trump literally but not seriously, his supporters take him seriously but not literally.
(Whoever coined this saying is very very smart)
No, Trump is unlike his nemesis Nadler not trying to deport political opponents, he is expressing in terms regular people connect with on gut level how he feels about these entitled, ungrateful and radical media sensations and their Robespierre tactics.
3
Oh yeah. Medicare for All and free community college education. So radical.
6
As a white male, I am proud of the four women who receive the ire of the Fox audience. We shouldn't gloss over the fact that Trump is no novelty but a product of the constant pounding of the Fox message to white voters: "They are out to take what is yours."
These four women are apple-pie-lemonade-stars-and-stripes-Americans. They are living out the American ideal. They are giving voice to our constitution and energizing it, actualizing what remains merely a document. They are what breathes life into it.
The Trump supporter with their anti-this and anti-that, crush all meaning out of it.
I may not agree with everything these women say but their picture of America is inclusive. Ironically, what they are pushing for is the very things that will help a majority of these Trump supporters.
Unfortunately, it is easier to hate someone for their skin color than doing the hard work of turning off Fox and do some fact-finding.
We need to beat back the rhetoric and violence of hate and reinstate those qualities that make America great. These are things you will not find on Fox or in the Trump supporter. They are found in those whose backgrounds had few opportunities but still made it.
9
Three voters? I find the criteria for this article completely unreliable. Not for a single solitary second am I going to accept the prediction, or even the tenor, of a possible reelection of the current occupant of the Oval Office based on the thoughts of three people.
3
Nice to be able to put a (white) face on the people we read about.
Trumpism is going to end (very) badly for America and if he's not defeated in 2020, like climate change we may have reached a tipping point in which the unthinkable loss of our democratic freedoms becomes a painful reality, enabled by these people who refuse to defend their democracy.
11
"Roughly 75,000 voters in Michigan did not vote for president at all but did vote in races further down ballot, suggesting that there were enough Michiganders who found both candidates so unappealing that their absence helped put Mr. Trump over the edge."
Or maybe this suggests something else. It would be interesting to know the historical data, because this seems like a lot of people not registering a vote for president.
4
So people of of color elected by other people of color adopt positions which advantage people of color while disparaging the white society which gave them or their parents a safe place to live.
Of course anyone who criticizes them is a racist.
11
@Mark Yes, Mark that's exactly what's happening here
2
@Mark...The four Democratic Representatives collectively make up less than 2% of the Democrats in Congress. Trump, who by even the must generous definition is a vulgar bigoted narcissist, by contrast is the face of the Republican Party. People are known by the company they keep.
8
So here we go again. Trump says something disgusting. Reporters then ask his base their opinion. His base repeats, for the umpteenth time, that, yes, he's still their guy. Can we all just stipulate, once and for all, that Trump's base will vote for him, come hell or high water? I'm sick of hearing from these people. Can we move to other segments of the population and get other points of view? By interviewing his base, over and over, reporters are just helping to reinforce the point of view that Trump's reelection is inevitable.
46
If you want to hear what you want, you will get same story as 2016. The article says Dems should get moderate candidate for immigration, health care and education to beat Trump.
2
That worked in Germany and Italy in the 1930's.
Until when ? What human catastrophe did it cause ?
if the political violence is at this level 15 month before the elections, where will it go in Nov 2020 ?
That is scary. Americans don't seem to realize the big problem.
They have already fought a civil war but they have completely forclosed it.
9
I’ll hand you the keys to the kingdom. Six kinds of voters: 1. Republicans that will vote Republican no matter what. 2. Democrats that will vote Democrat no matter what. 3. Those who lean Republican but have voted Democrat time to time, and are disgusted and repulsed by Trump, but will vote Republican because they are more disgusted and repulsed by socialism / communism. 4. Those who lean Democrat but have voted Republican time to time, and are disgusted and repulsed by socialism / communism too but Hate Trump so will vote for anyone else. 5. Spineless independents trying to make a statement and say they voted, but throwing it away. 6. Those who say they’ll vote because they Hate Trump, but will sleep in and won’t show up at the voting booth (mostly Democrats). There you have it. See, many Republicans are not Trump fans but will still vote that way. Get it?
5
I feel like the only opinions anyone cares about anymore are Trump supporters. No one else, apparently, should have any say about policy.
21
These four women have been duly elected by their respective communities to serve and represent their constituents. To make these four the target of demagoguery disrespects our constitution, democracy and representative government. Trump, Stephen Miller, Republicans and supporters should be ashamed.
Btw, these four women were elected by a majority with no interference from a a foreign government.
24
These stories on “The Squad” all seem to ignore the fact that it was AOC who first played the race card while responding to comments made by Nancy Pelosi about the four congresswomen who were the only ones who voted against the party on the immigration bill. Of course Trump was going to jump on it. What did she expect? As a result, the four have now enjoyed new fame and glory far beyond their merit among the politically naive, and are as busy as they can be trying to portray themselves as the voice of the party, which is exactly what Trump wants. Ignore this issue ASAP. Let it go and chalk it up to inexperience.
7
The public is not buying the racist aspects of Trump's tweets. What is undeniable is the Fascism. I believe that while fascism does contain elements of racism, it is far more effective to call out Mr. Trump for Fascism. Not allowing for differences of opinion is more egregious to much of the American voters than racism. Furthermore, they are not only tired of hearing about racism, but also are firmly convinced that both they and Mr. Trump are not really racists and they don't like the liberals going on and on about racism.
@E Holland
If he were fascist, you would not be allowed to call him fascist. That's kind of how that works.
5
And in another week or so we'll see an article about a town like this where the local residents complain that there are no jobs and no opportunity in the area and all the young people are leaving for the big cities.
Gee I wonder why?
11
I'll tell you what they will tell you - "Bill Clinton destroyed our lives with NAFTA". They have been told this lie so many times they can't help but believe it. The fact that they have voted Republican for 50 years on tax cut trickle-down promises, 50 years of unkempt promises, 50 years of voting for the party of the bosses who destroyed their unions, shuttered their factories, and shipped their jobs overseas. Fifty years of GOP refusal to consider healthcare access for them, who then refused to implement the black guy's Medicaid expansion out of nothing but sheer spite. They haven't learned anything in 50 years of voting against their own self-interest. Ask them about that.
3
The veteran who says tRump "supports veterans" has clearly not been paying attention. It is assertions like this that the Democratic candidate must address: she may not believe the truth when she hears it, but someone has to tell that truth.
13
Why would a veteran look for other sources of truth about her life but her own experience?
3
Right. I wonder if she is aware of Trump’s ongoing attempts to privatize VA Healthcare? A policy universally condemned by veteran’s groups.
What do veterans have now that they didn’t have four years ago? What does she mean; “He supports veterans” ? I know he says he does, Well, the ones who don’t get captured anyway.
6
Key sentence in this well written article by Ms Saul and Mr, PETERS is that the Trump team is counting on voters disliking the Democrats more than they dislike the president, which in my view should not be a difficult thing to do given the indiscretions of the foursome, the SQUAD, and the stupidity of their remarks. Comparing detention centers to concentration camps and ICE, whose officers r doing a tremendous job, to Nazis?AOC should apologize, and moreover accept the challenge to debate. Ben Shapiro is no heckler, but a Harvard Law graduate who chooses his words carefully.
8
Politics has been increasingly less popular as a job, compared to high-techs, e-commerce, ride-sharing, etc. No good people come in, which is the same in both Democrats and Republicans.
6
The four actually have a lot in common with Trump in whipping up mob mentality online. Great article in The New Yorker about what was done to Al Franken. He was railroaded by the same people supporting these four and spineless democrats afraid to stand up to them. The irony that the democratic party destroyed a senator , without due process, who was one of the best obstacles to Trump. It really makes me wonder if some of these people secretly work for Trump.
9
Let’s not forget that the one who destroyed was Franken was LeeAnn Tweedon, Sean Hannity’s friend, misrepresenting a photo that was an obvious joke, a joke that others, including the photographer, have said Tweedon was totally in on at the time.
1
"America - Love it or leave it."
Logicians refer to this as the fallacy of the false dilemma.
7
I think the fact it came down to a discussion of racism is helping Trump. While racism was a factor in his comments, the thing that should be equally egregious is that America was founded on the principle that it's OK, even good, to dissent. To say "go back" to anyone, regardless of color, is flat-out un-American. That should be the issue. These women are doing the most American and patriotic thing they possibly can to change what they don't like about the US - running for and serving in office. You don't have to like their policies, but being American is supporting their right to pursue the policies they promised their constituents. If those policies are widely unpopular, then let the chips fall where they may.
4
If there are STILL people who believe Trump's "go back" message is a good one... then Hilary was right. They are deplorable. There's no other way to say it. Trump's message is un-American and logically if his supporters buy it, they are un-American as well.
26
Dear NYT, please read Jamelle Bouie's opinions. Stop interviewing Trump supporters regarding what we already know; they will never stop supporting Trump, no matter what. Interview the MAJORITY of Americans who do not support him. Please.
28
He’s going to win again. Unstoppable.
3
These "squad" representatives were elected by the people in their districts to represent them in the US Congress. It's their job. For the US President to attempt to interfere with the Congress and tell legislators to abandon their seats and go home, leaving their constituents unrepresented, because they disagree with some of his policies is outrageous and absurd. That so many people support this President and his crazy ways without regard for the functioning of the US government as described in the US Constitution is more disturbing. Trump will be history in a few years but his fans will still be with us and they don't seem to understand or care how the government is supposed to work.
9
... Racial issues are not really gonna be what most people vote about.. And the current policies coming from the Dems are not that appealing to these swing voters..
...--- These people in Michigan see jobs being made, and an economy that is doing pretty good.. -- The message of dissatisfaction coming from the Democrats won't resonate with them.
..--And since the Dems aren't really putting out a unifying or uplifting message.. Trump is just the safer, status quo vote for some of these swing districts..
..-- If the Dems want these crucial mid-west states, then they are going to have to get out there & listen to the voters..
2
Trump will be reelected anyway.
4
Rural America must be inundated with NYT reporters seeking “real Americans.”
10
Imagine if Clinton had told Newt Gingrich, “Quit the bitching.”
Does anyone not see the insanity of one side saying to the other, you have no right to complain - forget that the First Amendment gives citizens the freedom of speech and the right to redress grievances against the government.
Whatever happened to the John McCain’s of the world who could disagree with another person but do so respectfully. Is that why Trump want’s to bash McCain’s legacy?
Our Constitution is an amazing document. Today, it seems our citizens have forgotten what is in that document, or perhaps what may be more frightening is that many citizens never learned what is in that document.
Perhaps that is why some tell people of color who were born here “to go back” because they don’t want the rule of law to apply equally to all.
11
“Quit the bitching...” hmm...sexist much?
So women politicians aren’t allowed to complain..if they do it’s dismissed as bitching?
Men politicians are allowed to yell and holler at rallies that the country is a mess but that’s considered ‘shaking things up in Washington’.
I’m scared for this nation.
14
Every day the stories in The NY Times become more dire than the day before. So here is another article, with voters who are gun-ho in wanting to vote for Trump again.
The "squad" of 4 Congress women are now vilified in what seems a more virulent effect than Hillary back during her run for president in 2016. It is insane, this branding of these women as extremely radical only because they have ideas outside the conventional norm.
Who in their right mind wants another 4 years of Trump, an incompetent buffoon who puts on a daily horror show along with his equally incompetent staff? His determination to rule like a dictator is nakedly apparent. This is what America wants?
11
Dear NY Times,
Please don’t divert this story to mere political strategizing. This makes racism ok, saying it is just a strategy to play to an audience. Or that racism is legitimate if it taps into the racist views of your supporters. Can we please keep the focus on how this IS racism, whether or not white fragility can face it?
6
Trump doesn't have a racist bone in his body because every bone is racist, as his history and his father's history in business in NYC had clearly demonstrated. There is no changing the minds of Trump supporters. If his words sound like their own, they take comfort in believing that neither he nor they are racist. And Fox reflects this image back to them. Get out the vote, Democrats and Independents.
7
This article is a good example of how the mainstream media outlets normalize Trump. Try better next time. Interview some black women in Detroit l, interview democrats in small town America, interview progressives in the suburbs... No amount of fear or condescension will make me stop supporting AOC or Omar. You are the paper labeling them “The Squad”. Not Trump, not Fox, but the NYTimes. You’re only reinforcing my belief in them, and if you want to throw away all that is good and holy about the United States because we want every American to have access to a living wage, college and clean water... That’s on you more than me. I will be able to sleep at night, but the fact that you could throw the country to fascism out of fear for economic reform shows your utter failure in character. Even if the AOC loses in 2020... I’ll be out there working for 20 more to win. I think millions of us will be.
10
These women were elected they are speaking out yea
7
What is so damaging is the whole world is listening and watching... including the Iranians. Trump is our president... move on, be an adult and move on.
2
@Marie Walsh what is so damaging is the systematic dismantling of every government institution and governing norm. Every department is now headed by either a director tasked with dismantling said department, or rendering it ineffective, or an acting-director since the director has been forced out in disgrace. He, with the help of Ailes may have managed to game the system, but he is hardly a president.
4
Newsflash: Conservative voters like President Trump.
5
@RK....Since Trump took office the budget deficit has gone from $540 in 2017 to $1100 in 2020. If conservatives like Trump they must love budget deficits.
8
"People get upset about what he says, but he’s still doing his job" -- what he says _is_ part of his job. It sets the tone for the country. It defines the acceptable. Does is not matter whether brazen lying becomes normal? Whether some Americans treat others as non-Americans? How can it not matter what the _president_ says?
7
Some of these people are clueless. How is he doing his job? Destroying our air and water? Starting trade wars? Alienating global partners? Triggering racist demonstrations at his rallies? Tweeting praise on despots only because the “like”him? Promoting lawlessness? How can these adults say they support him? It’s just sheer ignorance of the principles our nation was founded on. They don’t deserve to live in a democracy!
6
I invite any one of these Trump supporters to try the same phrase, “go back to where you came from” to any person at work in any company with an HR dept. Go ahead and try it. See how long you keep your job. It’s a racist phrase and should not be coming out of any president’s mouth.
18
@Loren Johnson
Luckily presidents don't have to answer to HR departments. And that's as it should be.
1
So let’s summarize: white American citizens who are born here are not happy with the state of the country so they vote for Trump as a way to protest. They tell other US citizens who were also born in the country but are not white to shut up or leave. They think they are not racist because “racist” is a bad word that cannot apply to whites. This land is THEIR land (manifest destiny, learned in school) and if your skin is colored or if you have a funny name, you should just take what is generously given to you. Yes, with this level of consciousness among whites, Trump has a chance.
14
Combine a low-income, aging, white rural group with limited education with large doses of Fox News in a mutually-reinforcing environment of fear, suspicion and inherent resistance to change, and you get a Trump supporter.
20
Don’t forgot the role of social media (the ‘real’ fake news) that is sowing dissent in these communities
The attack on Rashida Tlaib and the squad (now dubbed the Jihad squad) is an attempt to delegitimize an elected representative by tainting them with the notion that they support extremists outside the U.S. This is similar to the taunt of Fox News by reffering to Barack Obama by his middle name Hussain any time there was a discussion around religious extremism
4
In the Vietnam War maybe the coward Trump should have left it since he did not agree with the war, but was a coward to stand up and be counted. He is just a coward who paid his way out of the military while another took his place and came up in a casket. I am a Vietnam vet and any vet like the woman in the article is a joke that supports him a man who mocked a war hero John MaCain (I did not agree with most of his politics, but he served and was tortured). The chant back then was Love or Leave It and what a joke for Trump to chant it. I did serve so I said what I wanted after discharge the war was wrong and guess what I have been shown to be right. Not to be racist, but I noticed all those in the story were white, so lets stop tap dancing around the that fact it says it all. I disgusting little man and followers who hide their racism my goodness at least admit to it. What is being said is that there are flaws in America, health care, poverty, homelessness, the highest suicide rates in the Western nations, drug addictions legal and illegal so what is the problem. American love Trump he caters to their racism and the myth of America the shining city on the hill greatest place on earth. Guess what I have lived in other places and reside in Canada even with our problems a better place than America was. His comments and those that agree remind of Germany in the 30's when the chant was Jews are not Germans. It can't happen here it has. Jim Trautman
11
A person’s awareness of whether what they say or do is racist has no bearing on whether they are racist. Being oblivious to how racist your words or actions are (or the words and actions of our President) is only more evidence that you (and the President) is racist.
7
Enough!
In the interest of equal time, may we please see your writers expend as much column space - if not more - on MI voters who are thoroughly disgusted with the “go back” idiocy and would rather be dragged through fields of shattered glass than vote for the toddler, Trump.
9
Typical capitalist Americans with blinders on for anyone and anything that doesn't cause any problems in"their" country. If it does, well then, go back to where you came from - whether another country, or state, or city. My wallet has money in it, and if Trump acts the fool, the racist, the sexist, the ignorant jerk, who cares? Me and mine have ours, too bad "those" babies, toddlers, and children are forcibly separated from their desperate parents trying to give them a better life (or life at all) and locked in cages, parents also locked up with no idea where their children are or how they are doing, no direct access to drinking water, food, bathing, toileting, forced to stand while others sleep due to overcrowding, being verbally, physically and sexually abused by other Americans "guarding" them, while fat cat private prison corporations make tons of money for allowing this to happen.
Yup, no problem here in Trump country. We have money in the bank, food in the kitchen, savings and retirement money (for now) and who cares about all of the rest of the damage going on because of Trumpublican agenda? As a matter of fact, who cares about anyone else in this country as long as we have ours?
7
the nytimes and wapo this weekend had a story storm (with substance equivalent to a tweet storm) that trump is a racist, racists and racist, etc, etc. & etc....... However, this article seems to counter those articles and provides a more realistic view how those that really matter (the independent swing voters), whose votes will shape the 2020 election outcome, think about trump and the four misfit congresswomen. Instead of trying hard to influence opinion to support democrats, the phony article storm in the NYtimes likely helped trump. This happens every time. Lets do some more, NYtimes.
2
How do these Michiganders rectify being anti-socialist...of which Communism is the historical apex, the two being like night and day, and the love affair that trump has with Putin and his government....
former Communist KGB operative V. Putin......or don't they
know what Communism is......or socialism for that matter.
There is one democratic socialist running (not communist...which is not the same, all you Michigan historians)...Raise your hand if you would like to live under trump's favorite leader Putin
No gun ownership......Enough said America?
and you might want to look up the word 'oligarchy'.....to say nothing of the rise of fascism.....see the year 1933.
How many of these retirees would be willing to do away with their Social Security?....or the Government money which funds so
many programs in Michigan......Once again....it is clear and quite
stunning that American Education is failing its people....big time.
9
I'll criticize so called 'people of color', women, whites, blacks, anybody, anywhere, anytime if they hate America. No one is going to stop me! They can all go. Please don't come back.
7
What you criticize as hate I might call true love. Big difference between patriotism and jingoism.
2
In response to the fellow in the article who paid back his student loans, the guy is 54 which I assume means he graduated from college around 30 years ago. Does he realize how much more it costs now to attend college versus 30 years ago? It is nearly impossible to leave college now without debt, and many people have substantial debt. The debt keeps those people from participating in the economy, which in turn impacts everyone else in many ways. There has to be a way for the recently graduated to get relief from that debt, whether it be public service or some other method to lighten their load. So that fellow paid his debt back. Good for him. I don't think he would be so condescending if he tried to go to school now. He would be in debt and cleaning someone else's yacht rather than sitting on his own.
13
@Yougo
A life lesson is when you sign a loan agreement you actually have to pay back that debt.
Like a car loan, mortgage, etc.
3
@Yougo
Not to mention that the reason college was less expensive 30 years ago was that there was far more government support for higher education fund - you know, socialism.
6
@Yougo While it's true that some people are saddled with staggering amounts of student loan debt, the average (mean) debt is around $30,000 for those who graduated with a four-year degree.
While fully comprehending that student loan debt is far more complicated than that (e.g., those who compile lots of debt but never get a degree of any kind), $30K is basically a new mid-size car.
It's an interesting figure to me, because that's what I graduated with 35 years ago. I made a monthly payment of $365 for ten years. To do that, I did not get married. I bought a ten-year-old car, drove it for seven years and replaced it with another ten-year-old car. I didn't but a house until my student loan was paid off. No wife or kids, no new car, rented a cheap apartment in bad neighborhoods the whole time.
Part of the problem isn't the amount of debt, but the inability to delay gratification. Upon becoming adults, my own kids lambasted me for "giving away fifteen years of the prime of my life in order to just pay debt." They were right; I did--because that's what fulfilling my part of the loan contract demanded.
I didn't have enough at start-up to "have it all" as the advertisers are so fond of telling everyone that they can, so I prioritized. I wanted a college degree more than I wanted a wife, kids, a dog and a house in the suburbs.
I'm against forgiving student debt just because a lot of people want to have it all without sacrificing something.
2
The election results in Michigan, Wisconsin, and Pennsylvania hinge on what happens in Detroit, Milwaukee, and suburbs around Pittsburgh and Philadelphia. If these precincts vote for the Democrat in large enough numbers, Trump is done. Talk all you want to these folk in rural Michigan. They have grevieances, and some of them might be legitimate. But this is about turnout in and around the urban areas. It was low in 2016, maybe because Clinton did not campaign enough in these areas, and maybe because folk in these places did not like her. But low numbers were the cause.
If the Democrats get their voters out, Trump is a one termer.
A small part of me feels sorry for those in rural Michigan, even if they certainly don’t want my sympathy. They see their way of life under assault. They don’t want some “lib” on the Coast dictating their lives anymore than I want a minority of voters in 2000 and 2016 dictating mine in liberal West Coast Oregon. But that sympathy does not extend to respecting their views of President Trump.
9
"voters don’t need to like him as much as they need to dislike the Democratic nominee"
That certainly worked for Trump in 2016
6
@Erasmus...No. Anyone who supports Trump must also believe that the Republicans simply cannot put forth a better candidate in 2020.
Here's what I'd like to see:
1) Pick a day. Have EVERY person who came here as a refugee, whether or not they currently have achieved citizenship, they are still a refugee. Whether a person is an ER doctor or a restaurant dishwasher. EVERY ONE OF THEM - stay home. For a day. You would see the country come to a screeching halt.
2) A week later, have EVERY immigrant who came here without proper paperwork, from across the border, or overstaying a visa, what ever; Stay home. For one day. And in this case in particular, go ask the people in this article and all the others who complain they are taking our jobs and not paying taxes, and using our services. Ask them to pick up the broom, or shovel, or mop, or paint roller and get to work doing those jobs that are so valuable for the legal citizen, and that he or she just cannot get that job because someone here illegally has undercut them.
12
@HR
For many farmers those days are already here - Farmers are planting less as not enough workers to care for or harvest plantings. Add to that the losses from Mid West flooding - and it all adds up to higher food costs-
I wish that Fox News would explain THAT to it's viewers.
2
No sympathy for their dilemma.
@Marika H
They're not planting less because there's not enough workers. They refuse to pay a living wage, and abide by labor laws, so they only workers they get are undocumented ones.
To normal people, when the cost of essential goods/services goes up, they don't lobby the government to import their own cheaper healthcare workers who are paid less than American ones. They eat the cost of higher insurance premiums, and make do.
There are a lot of people who completely agree with Trump. They love the attention, they love love the outrage. They will derived an incredible sense of satisfaction when or if Trump gets re-elected.
They love that the Democrats are trying to moderate their message, just for them. They will be ecstatic if they could change the Democrats and then NOT vote for the Democrats.
Do not be fooled by their coyness. It’s a waste of time to try to please them as they intent not to be please.
6
The Democrats need to address the "socialism bogeyman"!
They should point out, over and over, that our country currently works with a combination of capitalism and socialism.
Our "socialist programs" are not solely for individuals (ie Soc. Security, Medicare, etc.) There are countless subsidies for agriculture and other businesses that permit these capitalist entities to survive.
Wake up, Democrats and do not let our divider in chief exploit the falsehood that social programs only exist for individuals!
5
Go back strategy???He doesn’t strategize, he’s too into himself. He is what he is and half of America see themselves as a mirror image. Education isn’t winning.
1
So a 54 yr old is already retired and sailing to his yacht club. My question for him: when was America NOT great for you? What don’t you have that you need more? What benefits did you get that you seem so unhappy to think about making sure others have? Now by asking these questions, supposedly I’m an elitist. Well, I don’t belong to a yacht club and I’ll be working till I’m at least 65. I paid my college loans, too, but with the support of our government. My debt lowered each year for 5 yrs. as I worked in special education. This has been and continues to be when our country is great - when we recognize the value of a mixed economy where business does its thing and government is a partner who ensures its doing the right thing. Reagan got it wrong. Government is not the enemy. Unintelligent leaders who purposefully tear our country apart are.
12
@Patty Roszko Good point, as he must have really done well under the Obama years.
1
There’s a strongly held notion among many American working-class people who are struggling to get by, that others who don’t deserve help get help, and that others who deserve help don’t get help. That notion leads to deep-seated grievance against “elites”. We Democrats need to address this issue. Too often, we get caught up in matters that are esoteric to working class folks. I don’t think that we fully grasp the sense of powerlessness and hopelessness that many of our compatriots struggle with. It is deeply unfortunate and troubling that a demagogue such as The Individual Who Shall Not Be Named can come along and exploit grievance for his own selfish and cruel gain.
6
Thank you! These are issues that won’t go away even if Trump loses. How can we bring these folks into the fold enough that they see the advantages of many of the liberal doctrines they espouse are terrible. And how can we keep the conversation going.
Small data point: my elderly, suburban Republican mother-in-law lives in Michigan and thinks Trump is awful. She says she can't imagine he will be reelected and plans to vote for a Democrat. I think there's hope.
9
I think it is AOC who is the real threat to Trump. It is she who launched the Green New Deal along with Ed Markey. People who follow this issue know how this has changed the discussion. First, there is a lot more talk about climate change and it is no longer getting lost among pocket book issues like heath care and college tuition. Also, for the first time serious proposals are being made for the types of goals that are consistent with climate science. To fight back Trump has only one weapon, lies. The majority of the country is on board with the need to take action to fight climate change. Recent disasters from wildfires and floods have confirmed the need for action. The Democratic candidates are putting out their own plans on climate while Trump is rolling back the advances that Obama made. When it comes to climate change AOC does represent the Democratic Party in the broad sense although not on the level of details. There needs to be an all effort to fight climate change and it needs to accompanied by a sense of justice. Climate change is not a hoax created by the Chinese. That is what Trump is asking his supporters to believe.
1
I am a life-long Democrat. I was a fundraiser for Mrs. Clinton. I am from Minnesota. When the Democratic Party refused to condemn the anti-Semitism coming from Minnesota, I left the Democratic Party. My Jewish friends are very important to me and I couldn't remain a Democrat and be true to my friends. I am a Christian who is terrified of anti-Semitism. Don't tell me that anti-Semitism in not involved. I am quite aware of Minnesota politics. I only wish that Democrats understood the fear I feel. They might rethink their stance.
5
@Antoinette. Being critical of the Israeli government is not being "anti-semitic."
7
Being against our country ravishing billions in aid in a foreign country whose far right-wing government continually meddles in ours is hardly anti-Semitism. It is actually very American.
2
"White" cannot see anything as they believe they are privileged and are entitled. Michigan is not going for Trump in 2020 though there are lots of his supporters in this area. Here is a warning: If the GOP takes total control in 2021, your Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid and def ACA are most likely gone or severely curtailed.
2
Immigration is the litmus test here. Many ordinary Americans don't want their neighborhoods turned into Arab or Spanish or Swahili or Punjabi speaking neighborhoods where they feel like the minority and powerless. Some might see this as xenophobia, but diversity is best served slowly--not unlike democracy--over many years. Not in one fell swoop.
3
@James R Dupak
Don't forget that NYC is one of the most diverse cities in the world--that's what makes it interesting.
Aside from the various apparatchiks, the youngest person interviewed owns to 54 years. I know it's hard to find younger subjects--they're on the run from gig to gig, or working second shift, or ferrying the kids to day care at grandma's. All you have now are people with loads of spare time.
Kind of like polls, conducted over landlines or cellphones with caller ID. Who would stop in the middle of work or transit to answer ("On a scale of one to five . .. ") an interminable list of questions?
You're trying to take the pulse of America by pulling fingers.
6
I think this article is just confirmation bias, but maybe it's good that the NYT is running it. People were too complacent in 2016, thinking Trump could never win. Perhaps we should be a bit scared now of Trump's reelection because maybe more of the Democratic base will show up in 2020.
4
“trump won on immigration in 2016. he will win again on immigration in 2020.”
Wrong. trump won on hate, division, fear, and nationalism.
If trump wins again in 2020, it will be a very sad comment on this once-proud nation. It may even be the death knell of the United States of America as one of the most exciting and promising experiments in human history. The USA would then become a shadow of its former self, lashing out at the rest of the world, scared of its own citizens - a police state and very much like 1984.
trump knows exactly why he won. his supporters think they know why he won. I’d say the Gutless Obtuse Pariahs have no idea, but they know exactly how and why he won. They’re already playing 2016 v2.0 right now.
3
No. Trump did not garner 65 million votes from racist Americans who elected Obama twice. Trump won, as most presidents do, on the economy. Globalism has been a disaster for the middle class in most Western democracies De-coupling our economy from the Chinese economy is a major foreign policy achievement. The immigration problem here, as in many Western countries, is rooted in the global economy. Those democrats supporting a bill to de-criminalize illegal entry, which would effectively open the border, have economic, as well as their much vaunted humanitarian, interests in sustaining a black market labor force of 20 million workers.
1
@Cold Eye
In fact, his base is no better off economically now than when trump became president. And no small number of them are in fact worse off now than January, 2017. trump’s infantile impulsive behavior and lack of a plan (other than just disrupting everything) have caused nothing more than economic uncertainty.
The thing to understand here is that his base does not, and will never, hold trump accountable to actually accomplishing any of his stated goals. “Lock her up!” “Build the wall!” “Send them back!” are all just slogans, screamed in orgiastic unison. They unite them and confirm their zealotry.
his base does not care whether or not he does those things - he hasn’t accomplished any of those yet, and it’s not changed their belief in him. They don’t care if he brings back manufacturing industries or jobs, whether he improves or destroys the economy or the environment, whether he brings about peace or gets our nation involved in another war. Nothing is going to deter them from voting for him. trump said he could walk out on Fifth Avenue and shoot someone dead - it wouldn’t matter to his base at all. All he has to do is keep spewing the hate and cultivating the fear. he will remain their champion.
That being the situation, then, it becomes the duty of the rest of us to unite in refuting this base and their idolatry of trump.
Man, the media really is going in on the whole “the racism of white voters is the only thing that matters” trope.
All week, all I’ve been seeing from mainstream media analysts is that calling out and opposing racism is bad politics. Now I happen to think the media is wrong, as they seem to think the electorate it’s made up exclusively of prejudiced working class white people who sit around in diners in 1988, but if they’re right, then this country is in a sad, wretched state.
One of the authors, Jeremy W. Peters, NYT Washington Bureau was interviewed on 24 June 2019 by Slate's Isaac Chotiner, Slate who asked:
"Is (Trump supporters not being totally honest and taking their reasons at face value) a danger in these sorts of pieces?"
Mr Peter's reply (abbreviated):
"..(readers) find tiresome .. an article or series of articles that we have seen time and time again that uncritically examine what the impulses are behind the Trump phenomenon. What I was setting out to do was get at a very specific sentiment, a very unique emotion, a galvanizing emotion .. I think (Democrats / the media) don’t really appreciate the fact that the perception that the left and the media is going overboard with this president is causing them to be more protective of him than they otherwise would."
In today's article, Mr. Peters and his Michigan cohort are giving "the unappreciated" .. appreciation?
I do absolutely believe that Trump won the 2016 primary because "supporters feel disrespected, and they feel talked down to by the mainstream media or so-called elites". Trump sold them on Trump, and there're 60 million reasons why they don't have a red line for being bamboozled by a master salesman.
1
As an member of the community about which this article was written I cannot more vehemently disagree. Politics aside for a moment, I am astounded that anyone, regardless of their political beliefs, could support this despicable human being as president of our country. He has shown himself to be divisive, dishonest and delusional. He has ignored the principles on which this country was built, defied the laws that separate us from the uncivilized, and is making fools of all of us on the global stage. Healthy debate of differing political ideas is what makes our country great, the belittlement, bullying and name-calling this man uses to get his way diminish us all. I look forward to the restoration of the standards of debate and disagreement that elevate the political process in my community and my country.
10
I do not understand the logic of calling four women who literally ran for public office to represent the people who voted for them "unpatriotic". But I know logic left the building a long time ago. I know kind of thing doesn't help, but, we're gonna need a bigger basket.
6
“We’re letting too many people in,” she said.
---
Based on what? Compared to when? Oh, FOX says it is so.
While the Great Internet is indeed responsible, IMO, for many wrongs (or at least, the speedy propagation of much ignorance), the fact that FOX news was and continues to be allowed to operate as a "news source" rather than the paid-for-by-rich-white-Republican-elitists propaganda machine that it is, well, here we are. Trump is in office, the Koch Bros are making bank on their eat-the-environment investments (as are many others, to be fair), and ignorance is growing ten-fold because some 'wimmen' are finally (sorry) speaking their minds.
And some of those ignorant voters are worried about 'too many people'.
Indeed. They may have commonsense, or even morals, logic, and the ability to reason!
The may - gasp! - see something like FOX 'news' and just turn it off.
And then vote.
Open the doors. Let 'em in.
2
As a physician, I can tell folks in Port Huron, if you were to send back those brown people (to the countries they came from) who are working in your hospitals, you wont have many to provide you healthcare.
I saw this same pattern in Eastern Kentucky.
Dirt poor, everyone smokes and junk food restaurants are everywhere. You look at their population in ICUs and clinics... majority fell into two categories, lean which reflect smokers or drug addicts, and obese.
It was terrifying to watch a population decline like this.
People per se had naivete and sense of humor but their isolation and simplistic attitudes has been abused by Republicans, they have been fed lies and hatred.
This is all they know.
Majority had never been to even Louisville or Lexington.
They have no clue what world is out there but what Fox-news is feeding them every night on the TV.
I truly fear these rural sections of US are going to fade away. It is a matter of 1-2 decades.
10
They happen to be black or colored. We’re letting too many people in. These women are a little extreme. Direct quotes from three persons in Port Huron, Michigan, as reported in this article regarding Michigan voters and continued support for Trump. Anything peculiar about their statements? Well, Mr. Kovach, they happen to be citizens of the United States of America and duly elected to congress. Well, Ms. Smith, certified medical assistant that you are, how closely have you examined the actualities of the immigration issue? Have you looked or are you just echoing Trump’s lines? Likewise Tim Marzolf and Eric Hayden. Have each of you closely considered all factors of the issues or are you just repeating? What is the source of your claims? Any unexamined assumptions underscoring your claims? What did Thomas Jefferson mean by an informed electorate? Do the individuals cited in the body of the article demonstrate being informed?
9
It leaves me beyond words when reading the opinions of these folks, like the woman who claims that Trump supports veterans. If I were reporting this story, I would ask "And how exactly does he do that?" None of these people have any factual basis to support their claims for why they continue to support him; they're either just too embarrassed to admit that they've been had - or they agree with his racist rhetoric.
5
What ever happened to some civility in politics?
Yeah, if you're going to poll mid-Michigan, then check out Bay City or Mt. Pleasant to find non-Republicans as well!
16
I find this terribly sad. My idea of America as a society moving towards a more perfect union is shattered. In my 64 years I always thought we were getting better. Growing. But I see that is a sham. What’s most depressing is the very same generation who stood in protest against a senseless war in Vietnam, who stood for racial equality, for women’s rights, for freedom from sexual oppression are the very same 60 old people who are supporting a racist regime, endless war, social and economic injustice. The same hippies that tied the flag around them (or burned it) and proclaimed it was their right are the same old people up in arms when someone refuses to stand. The same people yelling “send her back” . We’ve not only become our parents, we’ve become the worst version of them.
Talking about my generation. What a disappointment.
19
I think a lot of the 60s hippies who protested left for liberal bastions like Cal and the East Coast instead of going back to rural MI, etc.
2
Not so sure Port Huron is emblematic of Michigan nor the way the electorate will vote statewide. After all, Rep Tlaib is FROM Michigan. And Michigan has a Democratic Governor and two Democratic Senators. Very blue indeed. Port Huron sure didn’t swing those statewide elections.
14
I actually feel that Midwesterners who have endured the decline of the rust belt have some legitimate gripes. What is a mystery to me is the Trump voters I know personally, natives of New York City, who are union members drawing nice government pensions, collecting Medicare, enjoying union vision and dental benefits. Dear NY Times, please interview these folks.
19
@Sallie
Despite the government benefits and union protections, your friends probably feel that they worked really hard for what they have now. Any Democrat who tells them they didn't is bound to upset them. Government policy is supposed to make life easier, not make life possible.
Despite Trump's carnival show, he is still a NYC Republican, which remains a very different breed of dog than a red state one. Blue state Republicans are much more comfortable talking blue collar or hiring it. Like Trump.
Finally, if you call people bigoted, stupid and ungrateful when they complain about the problems in their lives, turns out they hate that. Denying validation of a person's experience is a surefire way to turn them against you.
I've just told you how to win in 2020. But you aren't going to listen.
4
“They happen to be black or colored." Right. It's fine to make hate-filled chants and statements about women of color if you say you're not racist. An easy out, one that Donald "Not a Racist Bone in My Body" Trump makes often. What's really offensive are the complaints of supposed "anti-Israel" rhetoric by the congresswomen. It is the height of hypocrisy.
15
I suspect that this article is an accurate reflection of the thoughts of most northern Michiganders. They appear to be very dismissive of clear bigotry emanating from the president. They overlook his hypocritical behavior and find fault in women who call out unfair policies, such as the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act. I would bet that these Michiganders actually identify with the language Trump uses.
For these reasons I believe Trump will get re- elected. His re-election will cement a rejection of the melting pot theory in American life and jurisprudence. Cases such as Dred Scott and Plessy will have legal relevance again and will negatively impact many European countries that look to the U.S. for guidance.
The antidote to Trump is the antidote to other bigoted leaders—pressured, patient and strategic resistance over many fronts. Trump and his ideas will eventually collapse because they have no substance.
Thus, resist. Get involved. Connect. Be patient.
11
@Smoove
They aren't really dismissing it. They are ignoring it because they do not trust the Democrat or media definitions of what racism is.
If Trump wins in 2020, you get to call him a racist, something he gets called anyway. If Trump loses, then you will be called the racist. Every day. Relentlessly. Reflexively.
These people know that.
2
It's time for the Democrats to rebrand this conversation. Stop responding and start promoting an image. This includes all Senators and Representatives who need to understand this fundamentally. Democrats need to think of themselves as providing or allowing for opportunities to happen for more than to the 1%. "Make America Better" based on opportunities.
16
You know who’s doing this? Pete Buttigieg.
2
Millie - Yeah...but someone electable.
Interviewing voters in the Port Huron area does not give a clear realistic picture of Michigan. We just elected a female democratic governor and this article makes it sound like our state is hosting the next flat earth jamboree.
But the people who were interviewed are definitely indicative of older white lower middle class Michiganders who are afraid of anyone who doesn't look like them. They fled the suburbs of Detroit to rural, bland, homogeneous St Clair County. They live in a bubble of blah that they see as safe but I would consider horrid. Why try to broaden your horizons and experience new things when the lure of depressing downtown Port Huron and the memories of Diana's Ice Cream Parlor (which was disassembled and moved to Tennessee years ago) can fill that gap.
22
Open borders do not mean, "Anyone who wants to just walk in is welcome to do so." Open borders means people are welcome to enter after showing they will obey our laws and legal immigration. The Republican scare tactic is that all outsiders wanting to enter the US are illegal immigrants and convicts. And the push to treat those who enter illegally humanely is not a plan to allow them to stay but a plan to recognize they also are human beings and should be returned to their countries whole and healthy. ICE, as it exists today, must go. Police do not have the rights to be abusive and be judge, jury, and executioner of those they detain. Immigration enforcement can, and must, be more legal and humane than ICE has grown to be. Scrap ICE and start over with an agency with enforceable rules of conduct and operations.
8
Has anyone considered the possibility that the whole "Land of Immigrants" experiment of the US may not work? You're assuming that it *must* work. You apply the fallacy that just because something is moral, ethical, or appropriate, then it is the way it should be. I don't know if there's a name for this fallacy (maybe a "moralistic fallacy"), but it's not necessarily valid. Maybe someone needs to consider the possibility that diversity and multiculturalism have been attempted, and the result is not entirely what was expected by the idealists. I'm not saying that that's right, I'm just saying that not everything has the outcome that people assume it *should* or does, and that fact also has to be respected, just as the ideals are respected. It doesn't mean that people are evil or reprehensible, it means that they prefer their own DNA. For example, it would be wonderful and egalitarian if men could get pregnant, but just because one wishes it to be so doesn't mean it's true.
7
Well, it’s worked pretty well, admittedly with nasty, big(oted) bumps in the road, for a couple hundred years
2
@Eugene "they prefer their own DNA" -- people once preferred to kill & eat other people. Preferences can be conditioned, and can change over time. We should take a realistic picture of people as they are when planning political strategy (as Rumsfeld might say, you go to polls with the country you have) -- but we shouldn't just accept what they now prefer as an immutable state of things.
It must work. What’s the alternative? Ethnic cleansing? Jim Crow? In a hugely diverse population, how do you determine who is “white enough” (because of course, that would be the question) to be accepted as part of the culture and who is not? It would be a literal and figurative nightmare.
Multiculturalism is not some wide-eyed ideal. It’s a simple reality in this country. These politicians are just using racial tensions as a wedge, or as a sawhorse for their own misplaced grievances. This may play well in certain parts of the country, but millions and millions of us have no problem coexisting alongside any number of other ethnicities and cultures. It’s not hard. In fact quite the opposite. Life is easier when you’re not trying to organize everyone you see into in- and out-groups.
2
There’s a psychological aspect to the success of fear-mongering demagogues. It’s universal and timeless. Americans are not immune.
5
In 1910 Valeria Bogdanowicz, my Grandmother, was a 19-year old young woman and immgrant to the U. S. She travelled alone from a village near Kracow Poland to Ellis Island and then on the St. Lawrence Seaway to its then closest point to Chicago. In those way the St. Lawrence Seaway ended at Port Huron Michigan, from which she travelled by train to Chicago. Five of her 6 children fought racial discrimination against Polish and other immigrants, as well as the Batlle of the Great Depression. One of her sons fought with the U, S. Army in France after D Day. Her sixth child was in the U. S. Army and chased enemy snipers in the Philippine who refused to surrender after WWII ended. He was also the first member of our family to graduate from college.
It was Valeria's generation and their descendants who did make America Great. I thank God that Valeria did not stop in Port Huron. Every time I read about Trump dishing out pain and sufffering to today's immigrants I get disgusted about the lies he tells and the inability of many Americans to see through those lies.
13
My grandmother, Marya Zuk, came from Staryava, Eastern Galicia (now western Ukraine) in 1912 at age 17, eventually finding her way to a boarding house managed by her aunt in steel country, western PA. Her son, my father, served in WWII and became a career military officer. His hometown, Lowellville, Ohio, had a heavily pan-Slavic population that formed a good part of the workforce at the steel mills in the region. If you’ve seen the movie The Deer Hunter, you’ve seen those communities. This is America.
2
Not quite. That is one facet of America. The Squad are another.
1
"voters don’t need to like him as much as they need to dislike the Democratic nominee"
That is exactly what Democrats tried to do to Trump last time, and are still trying to do.
It is not what Trump did to them. This suggestions shows they don't understand even now how he won, or what they did wrong.
Yes, many of people did detest Hillary. However, that was icing on the cake. The real substance was quite different.
Trump made a gut appeal to "us vs them" Democrats walked right into that, their identity politics method making them into "them."
Don't take that wrong. Helping all groups in our society is a good thing. It wasn't wrong to say Dems meant to help them.
It was wrong to leave the impression the help was only for them, or even mostly for them.
Everyone needed the same things, and still does. Though minority groups got hurt worse, we all got hurt.
The winning approach would be to do those things for everyone together. Then let the Republicans be Scrooge who won't let anyone be helped, none of the voters in question.
Hang the Republicans by what they are. That doesn't mean to just hate Trump, those that is useful too. It means to show how mean and nasty they really are, to everybody except their few rich people.
While doing that, stay away from Goldman Sachs, and don't hold secretive meeting with a rich elite. That is what Republicans are.
8
Nice insight Mark... well said, however America in this must stand united on the world stage.... Dirty politics hurts every everyone and civility has rules.
1
@Mark Thomason
Goldman Sachs is to Democrats as peanut butter in a trap is to a mouse. The mouse knows it's a trap but can't resist and hopes he won't get killed. The mouse dies and never finds out that the GOP made the peanut butter and the trap.
2
Really? Did they find no one in Port Huron who will be sure NOT to vote for Mr. Trump? I plan to go door to door to make sure he is not re-elected. Perhaps the reporter needed to talk to a greater variety of residents.
13
The problem is democrats seem so focused on helping illegal immigrants,providing free healthcare and benefits it almost seems like the Democrats are the party of illegal immigration at the expense of Americans.
Obama won because he was running for Americans. The Democrats went of the rails and are not working on behalf of middle class Americans.
14
In my capacity as a Michigan resident most of my life, I thought I had something to say on this. Unfortunately, the NYT kept informing me that due to technical difficulties, reader comments on this story were unavailable, even as I watched hundreds of them pile up as I tried to check back in from time to time. Maybe it was by design as a traffic-control device; they won't tell. Anyway, I'm late to the party, but it appears one can still get a drink, so...
How is it so many people from across the country know what Michigan residents' interests are, viz; "They vote against their own interests"? Don't those of you who say that really mean those people vote against YOUR interests, and you're upset because their interests aren't the same as yours, resulting in your preferred candidate losing? I long ago reconciled myself to the fact that most Michigan residents don't share my priorities in the voting booth; that doesn't mean they're ignorant or "getting played."
Graduates of Michigan colleges generally don't leave because of the political culture here. The University of Michigan's enrollment has been majority out-of-staters for years; they by and large aren't staying regardless.
What I HAVE noticed about liberals in Michigan is that generally they're hypocrites. They live almost always in the lily-white suburbs and not the ethically mixed cities whose diversity virtues they espouse. They don't like Trump; we get it. That doesn't mean those who do are some lesser sub-species.
3
@Jim
Ask most Michigan high school counselors where the top ten percent of their graduating classes go to. Aside from family concerns, they're out of the state in 5 years--4 years of college and a year to see that nothing is doing for them here.
A gerrymandered GOP legislature has stifled every attempt to acknowledge that we're living in a new century. When the best and the brightest look at that leadership, they're out of here. Last I heard the chairman of the Senate Education Committee was a community college dropout.
6
No. The rich vote for their own interests. The lower to middle class Republican vote against their own interests. The party of the rich bosses, the GOP, has not authored a single policy or program that has improved the human condition in 50 years. American workers voting Republican are voting against their own interests, not for mine.
4
@Jim Hard disagree. As a transplant to Detroit, it got old answering the question, "Why on earth would you move here?" People left if they got the opportunity. They understand the state is literally crumbling around them and poor prospects. The state has a serious brain drain situation. I guess that´s obvious from this story.
I love all the comments about wanting to see reporting on how poor or urban voters feel. I agree because it may be a wake up call for democrats. That article wouldn't go the way most commenters think.
There is a LOT of anger with democrats in urban areas. How soon democrats forget that is how Hillary lost swing states, she couldn't pull in urban voters to counter suburban votes.
Democrats are in a bigger bubble if they think urban American citizens having to compete with illegal immigrants over resources and jobs will come out for the party supporting open borders. Democrats are really underestimating the resentment from various groups, including legal immigrants.
10
Well this article is full of interesting statements by citizens. The Trump cult is not based on reality but misguided understanding of what words actually mean. The support for Veterans is eye opening.
In the rest of the country we have family members who are veterans not draft dodgers. I dont know what the top bigot has done for veterans lately. Probably because they might be minorities there names have been deliberately dropped off the hospital lists or they didn't deserve a military representative at their funerals. Or they didn't deserve social services.
The five time draft dodger at work against the veterans, has done an outstanding job he didn't brother to tell his golfing partner that the 9/11 fund bill needed to be passed before another twenty first responders die. His golfing partner didn't worry about first responders going to his home when he was being attacked by his neighbor but he worries about how we should pay the medical bills of the people who cleared the towers
Oh well, Trump was to busy being white to do his job as a representative for everyone not just for bigots.
I suppose the old white people in Michigan enjoy the sight of children living in cages. Its refreshing to see the person who had so much to say in the article. The pictures at the rally and the ones in todays newspaper show how many people believe in hate and whiteness.
Between Boris and Trump the world will be a safer place for whites.
6
...“People get upset about what he says, but he’s still doing his job”...
The problem is that these supporters see Trump through FoxNews' eyes.
It's simply impossible to accept what this president is SAYING and DOING unless victim of a brainwash.
5
Their vote is important.
My vote doesn't count as much.
Why.
No electoral college.
#tyrannyoftheminority
10
No, Trump does not support veterans. Look at his mockery and harsh criticism of John McCain.
This does support having a candidate like Biden though. In the deep South where I live and in the Midwest, he would be a more acceptable candidate. Racism and sexism were the two main indicators of those who voted for Trump in 2016 according to analyses -- not economic instability.
With the way Trump constantly hypes up both of these, the majority of Republican voters have been poisoned morally, intellectually, and probably physically in the environment.
4
Trump is winning the immigration debate. It’s going to cost Democrats a lot of seats in 2020.
9
@JOSEPH....Obama deported more illegal immigrants than any other President. When he left office illegal immigration was at a 40 year low and there were no asylum seeking caravans crossing Mexico. If there are now immigration problems at the border, it happened on Trump's watch.
2
Why aren’t we talking about health care?
4
No. Each member of the ‘squad’ DID do something: each ran for and was elected to a federal congressional office - with a mission. Each has fundamental disagreements with our current President as well as where the Senate is going. And that’s what makes this country great. They may not prevail, but a majority of voters in their districts would like them to try.
11
Perhaps the best strategy for democrats would be to have members of the Squad campaign in the battleground states in support of democratic candidates for the House, Senate and the candidate for president, explaining their policies and why their agenda will help those voters. They could campaign in Michigan, Ohio, Wisconsin, Minnesota and Pennsylvania.
5
@Toni,
Wrong strategy; people loathe that group; you will definitely help my president.
45
2
@Toni
These freshmen congresswomen are greener than a frog. I imagine that with time and experience they might come around, but right now their youthful militancy is annoying to many, whether Left, Right or undecided.
Every country in Western Europe has had a Socialist government in the last twenty and at the same time were operating as a competitive and successful capitalist economies. The Socialist aspect of the countries sometimes made their companies more not less competitive. These companies did not have to shell out many millions of corporate dollars to pay for or subsidize their workers medical programs, as US companies do.
27
There's a lot of talk about how "Socialism" (wer're really talking Social Democracy) takes away "feedom". This is a very long discussion that has been covered by a lot of the comments. There is ONE way that having a socialist insurance not socialist medicine- like they have in Canada would greatly increase an important freedom. If I was on the Canadian medical system I would be free to leave one job for another and not worry about losing my medical insurance. That is a rea life freedom.
23
The comments section is terrifying. The top commenters are from the bluest bubbles, many lamenting that the NYTimes is interviewing the wrong voters. Well, these are the voters who will determine the composition of Congress, will be choosing the President, and consequently will be solidifying the right-wing Supreme Court for the rest of our lives.
The Democrats may have many good ideas and plans. But, so far their message boils down to:
1) Medicare for all, abolish private insurance, raise taxes.
2) Give a lot of free stuff to people whether they need it or not.
3) Open borders and let the new foreign people get the free stuff as well.
4) Identity politics. Cater to every tribe, except the poor or the lower middle class whites are 'racists' and 'deplorables'.
The self-righteousness of the Left is what will give all of us Trump for another 4 years and destroy whatever is left of the American Democracy. Perhaps their hope is just that: the economy will eventually crash, the idiotic isolationist foreign policy will eventually fully isolate the US, the oceans will rise and the migrants will flee in the hundreds of millions. I guess, one needs to hit the rock bottom to have a revolution.
Unfortunately, revolutions also rarely deliver on what they promise. It may go from horrid to worse.
22
@Alexander K.,
I feel your pain; the let is too busy hating to formulate a corporative plan; toddlers have better insight on how to win.
2
Who says that the Democratic platform boils down to those few items you cite? Could it be that there is a selective narrative about what voters want, that is pushed by stories such as these in the NYT, that becomes embedded in people’s minds? If other viewpoints aren’t published, aren’t given a fair public airing, the narrative becomes a self fulfilling prophecy.
1
Your last comment disregards the revolution that formed this country. As for your”list” of Dem’s policies, it seems you are propagating the nonsense of this administration. You’ve lumped various ideas, boiled them down to their sound bites, tossed them all together and called it the left’s policies. The Democrat’s tent is huge and very diverse. Their ideology is equally diverse . What holds them together is an idea of a government that serves all the people not just a specific select few. Were I you, I would do a bit more research in what the vast majority of Democrats believe. You might be pleasantly surprised and find yourself agreeing with much of it.
3
Where were these people when Trump was on a 24-hour a day loop about how terrible America had become?
Where were they when Trump was complaining about how awful it was to be in America, and have to suffer the life of being an American citizen?
How do they feel about Trump talking about his unfair and mistreated life of being a bazillionaire?
I say send him back to Scotland or whatever rock he currently claims he came out from under.
16
I am so tired of these articles about trump supporters. Fine,vote against your interests,support destroying the environment,support making the 1% richer, and the rest of us poorer,support putting our young people in debt for the rest of their lives trying to get a college education or a trade,support Big Insurance and Big Pharm,that are causing bankruptcies and death.You have yours, and the heck with anyone else.You must really care about your children and future grandchildren,NOT.It's obvious that you don't care about your fellow Americans.
28
@Nora Spot on. Thank you.
2
@Jose Pieste Fabulous! So while they are dying of cancer due to toxic water/air/food supply, at least their stock portfolio is strong!
For the love of God, New York Times, we get it! There are white voters who love Trump and his horrific, racist antics and attitudes not only do not make them turn away - they make them embrace him more. Do we really need an article like this, from a different blue collar diner, every single day. This is getting so old. Please go into communities of color, educated college suburbs, big cities, and on and on and ask the many many more people who voted for Clinton why they will never never vote for Trump.
It is so tiring to read the endless coverage of what Democrats must do to engage Republicans and there is virtually never coverage of what far right (or in other words, the entire party) Republicans must do to expand their base.
30
@Robin Snyder yes. sadly the echo chamber is working just fine for trump.
3
The republicans don’t need to expand their base. They control most of the state governments and the US Senate, and appear to remain in control of enough states to secure the Electoral College. So it will remain until the Democrats finally figure out that the hyper focus on the needs of small segments of America, legitimate as they are, alienate the larger segments of America who have legitimate needs as well. As always, it is a question of priorities. Perhaps it’s time to find a different balance so we can rid ourselves of the ill tempered occupant of the White House.
1
@MOG so trump can appeal to a minority of americans and it is ok. democrats can appeal to people with solutions that are popular and it is not. got it.
1
All-around tragic no matter whichever way this is interpreted.
I mourn for the loss of America as the living and humane ideal for the many on this Earth. That is the true dimension of this tragedy: the decline of a global role model and the parade of its morbid and hateful underbelly.
10
The voters interviewed in this article were never going to vote for a Democratic candidate over Trump. All of the artifice has been stripped away. Republican voters will vote for Trump no matter what. It is difficult to identify a candidate who is more corrupt, unprofessional, ignorant, vulgar, or weak in foreign policy than Trump. It's covfefe.
Democrats need a huge turnout. That is the way to beat Trump.
14
"NATIVISM" should pertain only to NATIVE AMERICAN INDIANS.
The rest of us are all IMMIGRANTS irrespective of ethnicity or skin color.
13
Paul please note: the ‘Native Americans’ are not natives. They immigrated also.
The prevailing theory proposes that people migrated from Eurasia across Beringia, a land bridge that connected Siberia to present-day Alaska during the Ice Age, and then spread southward throughout the Americas over the subsequent generations.
1
I detest Trump but trying to win a point by redefining words is ridiculous.
Anyone born in America is not an immigrant though we are descended from immigrants. That holds true for every person in America unless you can show me evidence that a branch of humanity evolved on this continent.
2
@paul I'm not sure you know what immigrant means.
My ancestors were immigrants; I'm a native-born U.S. citizen, and I'd wager most people posting here are, too.
1
Wow, what a great "democracy"- a land where a minority of ill informed voters can hijack a Presidential election. It's pathetic. How can we even call ourselves a democracy? Oh, I know, because we are so full of ourselves. WE made up "American Exceptionalism". Noone else did. If Trump wins, prepare yourself for the beginning of The Fall of the Great Republican Experiment. We gave it a good go, but in the end, our primordial sin did us in.
17
It has been a very depressing revelation to learn just how craven right-wing Trump voters turn out to be. After all, they're Americans, and the Americans I know are not driven to paroxysms of fear and paranoia by the presence of nonwhites in Congress, or the articulating of independent ideas.
Yet these white Trump voters seem to lose their moorings and their basic humanity every time some phony scapegoat is trotted out to use as an excuse for their poor "feelings" -- which are predicated on what exactly? That the Senate isn't white enough? That their local legislatures aren't white enough? That the world they see through their TV's isn't white enough? How much more white could it possibly be?
The main lesson of the Trump era has become as simple to describe as it is mortifying to accept: An enormous number of white Americans, like Trump, are irredeemable cowards and hate-mongers. They are led by the nose into believing racist propaganda and share mob mentalities. They are more than happy to assail out country and degrade our institutions when it suits them. They are in essence babies and bullies -- just like their standard-bearer. They are a shameful generation.
14
Stop pretending these are just old white racist Republicans because many are also democrats. It was in a Midwestern state, Missouri, and in a democratic controlled area, Ferguson, where military weapons and tactics were deployed against protesters.
Where American citizens were told they couldn't organize peaceful marches and were placed under curfews. All with the blessing of the democratic party that now spends all its time telling illegal immigrants how to resist lawful orders. I have yet to see military weapons used on them when blocking traffic or resisting law enforcement. Democrats need to understand that the same racism they fostered against African and Native Americans is now being directed at others and democrats helped it to thrive. You don't get to pick and choose to have such vitriol just directed at African Americans.
3
I am asking the NYT to give voice to the many people of color voters in Flint and Birmingham and Columbus a voice.
I want to hear why they don’t want Trump, and why they won’t vote for him!
And so would the other disenfranchised people who will vote DEM
I would like to see interviews with people of all colors who came here and can vote.
Let’s hear what they have to say.
I am sick of the twisted thoughts of white racist america
15
I certainly don’t believe Trumpists hate America and I would never be so classless and frankly un-American to say it in posts, speeches, conversation or punditry. My current opinion of what is the essence of “America” and what I think about what our policies should be differs from Trumpists for sure. But what I think actually mirrors people from our recent past like JFK and many of his followers. Did they hate America? Is anyone willing to go there in a meaningful debate? So...just because I get nauseated seeing my flag being hugged by someone I personally feel is a boorish and selfish moron who actually hates my community and people like me doesn’t make it right or just (or rational) for me to say that he (Trump) hates America by doing so, or that he should go back to where he came from. We share this community for good or ill. That’s what being American means.
3
“Asked about the Democrats, he said he once worked in a factory in Romania where he had observed the Communist system“ — (facepalm) I grew up in the USSR. Some key features of communist life: leader worship; campaigns against “enemies of the people”; constant lying; elevation of the police... sound familiar?
20
If Mr Trump wins re-election with his racist line, we will see the demise of our Country.
I pray the people will not choose fascism over democracy.
Mr Trump is a disturbed man whose leadership will be the cause of a crisis for our Country. He is not capable of dealing with any kind of crisis.
13
Im tired of trying to understand people like Mr. Kovach. He doesn’t try to understand me.
17
7 million Trump voters vote for Obama. HRC lost by over one million votes nationwide without the CA vote. Maybe you better figure out how to talk to Trump/Obama voters.
The amount of mis-information being thrown at voters is appalling. Trump is brilliant at spreading small sound bites that define his opponents. He picked off all the Republican challengers in 2016 one by one.
Now he's picking on Democrats by claiming they're Socialists, un-American, and so forth. And sometimes, the sound bites stick because they feed an under-informed person's views. That's mass politics in the social media age.
We who read and comment on the NY Times are not the targets. We take the time to sort facts from sound bites and outright lies. Sadly, tens of millions of Americans don't, and that's how idiots get elected.
9
Generally, what I found in this article was a group of white males, who like Trump want the ladies in aprons in the kitchen. Free speech is okay if you are powerful and use it to distract, insult or make people go chase squirrels while you steal their wallets.
"Uppity" women of color better zip it. They are never the equal of any white man.
Welcome to America...the land where time stood still in 1935.
17
Some of these folks will be dead by the time Trump’s damage really kicks in. The other guy will just set sail and leave the burning cities behind. They just don’t care.
8
Selfishness is their defining characteristic. Followed by fear and the inability to think rationally. How do they think their children could possibly benefit from the inane antics, policies and outright daily lies of this administration?
1
Articles interviewing Trump supporters make me doubt that democracy is a viable institution. Too many of our voters are ill informed, selfish, and ignorant. (Says this Hobbesian.)
7
Thanks, NYT, for really opening my eyes to the simmering racism among Trump supporters that nobody realized was an actual thing!
How about next time you really push those journalistic boundaries and let us know that rural Idaho still supports Trump?
Try harder!
12
What a slanted article, first off St. Clair County isn't an auto parts center for the state, it is a farming county and sparsely populated besides Port Huron. Secondly, they interviewed white people over 50, and shockingly they are pro-Trump. This is an article that had a predetermined bias to it before it was even written.
26
@Stephen Thank you! I'm very familiar with Port Huron and was confused by the "manufacturing" allusion. Also, Port Huron's economy (as well as many other towns along the US. side of the St. Clair River) is very dependent upon the Canadians who come across to shop & dine.
3
The New York Times needs to stop legitimizing Trumps “campaign strategy.” Racism is not a legitimate campaign strategy, and the NYTimes shouldn’t treat it like one.
21
Disagreeing even virulently with mainstream policy doesn’t mean the person speaking is displaying hatred of the state and the community...or of me. Even by publicly decrying or calling out the things done in our name as Americans doesn’t mean a critic of American economic or political practice hates America — and it doesn’t give you the sway to say they do if you really disagree with them (or me). This is the problem with the President’s and Fox News’s “Squad Strategy”. So if I opine that America was evil when it’s Army knowingly handed out disease-infested blankets to natives in the 19th century (as part of a genocidal strategy that has been confirmed by historians of all stripes) does that mean I hate America? If I call Robert E Lee a traitor and I advocate in my community for the removal of this traitor’s visage from public places, I am not saying the Confederacy’s modern supporters/nostalgists or those who still somehow revere the dirty rag of the Confederates hate the modern United States of America. We just have very different views and family histories — but we share the nation now and we have to also share our own “love” of what we think it represents. I might think or state the opinion that Trumpism often demonstrates hatred of long-held American values that are centuries old in terms of provenance — but that is merely my opinion based on my own love for my country.
219
@Justprogressnotlabels, "the Confederacy’s modern supporters/nostalgists or those who still somehow revere the dirty rag of the Confederates hate the modern United States of America" DO hate the modern United States of America.
They DO revere traitors to our country - and they ARE nostalgic for a way of life and an economy based on enslaving fellow human beings.
Trump supporters claim to "love" our country - but what is it they "love"? They love a white-dominant past that they see through rose-colored glasses of nostalgia.
26
@Justprogressnotlabels
Yes it isn't always the case that criticizing the country is a bad thing.
It is a usually a good thing.
However that isn't always true.
There are cases where criticizing can be wrong as well especially if is being done to denigrate the country.
These four woman have done that.
3
@Why.
You say they have, but they haven't. Look carefully at what they have said, not what someone told you they said.
8
Twice I told people and posted comments that Barack Obama would win and I was right. I stated then there were many people who would secretly vote for him but never admit it publicly.
I said the same thing in 2016 because I knew so many democrats who disliked Hillary Clinton. Democrats made a big mistake with her.I have said will go on record saying Trump will be reelected unless there are drastic changes by democrats but I don't see it happening.
Democrats don't necessarily need to go super centrist but they need to go sensible progressive. Americans do want infrastructure built up but not just to cater to the rich or corporations. Americans do want healthcare but for American citizens and a hybrid government/private system where everyone pays something. Americans do want student loan debt addressed with perhaps zero interests rates and sliding repayment scales. Time for democrats to listen to Americans, not just these four, and they may still have a chance at winning.
10
@Hellen The notion that the Democrats revolve around “these four” is ridiculous.
It would be reasonable for Ms Saul and Mr Peters to state that of all people who were mentioned in this article only one have changed his view from not voting in 2016 to vote for Trump in 2020. It would be also fair if they reported from Detroit and Ann Arbor to see if the Democratic Party’ base is energized and willing to vote in larger number than in 2016. I am sorry that nothing will change the views of white blue color supporters of Trump. They had finally found a champion for their grievances including misconceptions concerning the support that minorities and immigrants get from the Federal Government at the expense of the white working people.
8
@Hoshiar
Sure, go to urban areas and you will be in for a bigger surprise. Democrats are losing support in those areas, they are the ones who have to deal with illegal immigrants. They don't live in gated communities.
2
If anything, sobering paragraphs like this one should serve as a bright-flashing-red warning siren to Democrats about the perils of next year's presidential candidates reacting to Trump's far-right politics with ideas nearly as far to the left:
"But the version of the Democratic Party that voters here are seeing is also unpopular, as the two dozen presidential candidates debate issues that seem antithetical to their concerns — like decriminalizing illegal border crossings and offering Medicaid to undocumented immigrants."
Like it or not, these simply aren't the issues that are going to win over moderate or independent voters in "flyover states." I really don't see why the Democrats vying to take on Trump aren't simply sticking with issues that will - as a variation of an old saying might go - play just as well in Portland as they will in Peoria: how about separating migrant children from their parents and locking them in cages for weeks on end, for starters?
4
@Jeff,
I say don't lock them in cages; send them HOME.
I wish that you had also gone to those parts of Michigan where the four new Congresswomen are lauded. Rep. Tlaib IS from Michigan, where there is also a Democratic governor (thanks to the ineptitude and handling of the Flint water scandal by former Gov. Snyder), two Democratic Senators (Dingell and Stabenow, both women), and members of Congress (Rep. Amash, for example) who have publicly broken with Trump.
12
@kate,
The members of the squad are polling nationally at about 2-3% nationally; almost as bad as Democrats.
3
@JRS According to whom? Trump is out polled by Biden, Sanders, and Warren. His approval hasn’t budged from 43%.
1
@JRS
None of them are running in a national election.
It is a commonplace of American political discourse to equate, as does Trump, equal access to healthcare as communistic and a threat to each American's freedom. Therefore, the answer to those without health insurance is that it's their own fault and that they should suffer the consequences. Moreover, if they don't like it, they should go back to where they came from or, perhaps, where their parents or grandparents came from. (It is interesting that Trump's remarks were directed at four women of color and not at, for example, Bernie Sanders who calls himself a democratic socialist). The French writer, Anatole France, wrote in the 19th century: "The law in its majesty forbids rich and poor alike to sleep under bridges, to beg for food and to steal bread." American exceptionalism means living in the 19th century. It has nothing to do with communism.
7
Even with Detroit’s alleged “renaissance” (a word that invisibilizes the ongoing black culural movements that survived or prospered alongside the industial decline, like techno), the state is still bleeding its progressive youth to Chicago and the coasts. As a Michigander who moved to L.A., I can’t help but cringe with guilt when I read articles like this. Those of us with families and connections still in the state, we need to get to work!
4
People in small towns in the Mid-West live in an echo chamber of sorts. Many don't see people who aren't like them, many don't travel, or even see the value of observing other cultures; and that's just fine with them.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime."
Mark Twain said this over a century ago, and it is just as relevant about our country today.
6
Whether we want to believe it or not, these people have a point. And it is dismissing these people's views that has us in the present predicament, vis-a-vis President Trump. The Democrats overlooked the voices of these people and they paid the price. My point: Thomas Friedman was right: When you advocate healthcare for illegal immigrants; when you advocate for the end of private healthcare; when you advocate that you want Medicare for all and forgiveness all college debt, well that just screams socialism to these folks. If Dems want another 4 years of Trump, another 4 years to solidify the hatred, the decay of our democracy, then keep denying the validity of these voices.
14
Given that Trump won those counties by 12 points, being down two isn't such great news, is it? Or does that kinda thing not matter now that Nate Silver isn't around there?
3
Each Democratic candidate should forget about demonizing Trump and his Administration. We all know that, for gosh sakes.
Instead, hone your message to just a few issues that you really believe are important. Don’t try to espouse your support for every liberal cause that comes along. People see that...that’s a sign that the candidate stands for next to nothing and simply wants to get elected. Don’t talk down to us; if an issue is important to us, we’ll do the research.
Maybe that’s the crux of the matter...find out what issues/problems are really on our radars.
7
@Patrick alexander, I think it is a bit too late now; they showed their hand and it is not a winner.
1
@Patrick alexander
Yeah like Elizabeth Warren
Rebecca, the ‘native Americans’ are immigrants also. The prevailing theory proposes that people migrated from Eurasia across Beringia, a land bridge that connected Siberia to present-day Alaska during the Ice Age, and then spread southward throughout the Americas over the subsequent generations.
2
I don't even know what to say here...it's like you all think this is a great strategy, a normal strategy, and completely, utterly ignoring what kind of damage this does. Just game out the strategy find the voters that think it's great, and then try to tell us Trump is some kind of genius.
And it's somehow okay that our Black and Brown citizens and sisters are campaign fodder. It's painful. Especially for a family like mine that has biracial nieces an nephews, a black brother in law, a daughter in law who is a naturalized citizen. They are not feeling so comfortable in their own country.
6
The "shock" about how Trump somehow represents a reversal from American values is misplaced. America has always had a racism problem. Trump has just been somewhat more blatant in how he has tapped into it.
For the past 50 years, the Republicans have been the party of bigotry and racial division. Nixon and the Southern Strategy, etc. Before that, the Dixiecrats. Displacement and extermination of much of the Native American population. Jim Crow. Widespread lynchings well into the 20th century.
Internment camps for Japanese-Americans but not German-Americans. Lots of other examples: South Boston, many of the kids I went to high school with, and their parents, KKK, etc. The South has never gotten past the Civil War.
5
One of the few things we know about the historical Jesus of Nazareth is that he was a non-citizen, since Roman citizens could not be crucified. When his parents fleeing Herod took the infant Jesus to Egypt, they were undocumented political refugees. Imagine if the Gospel attributed to Matthew told of residents of Lower Egypt screaming “SEND THEM BACK” or “GO HOME” at refugees from Judea. What would the right-wing Christians of today say about such people?
10
I find it interesting that the media in general refuses to discuss the accusations of racism within the Democratic party and the actual racism of AOC et al. when referring to their colleagues in the Dem party.
Trump himself is blatantly highlighting this to the media and everyone else and yet it is just glossed over as if it isn't relevant to a discussion about 'Racist Trump' - this is what he means when he refers to 'the fake news media' - and in this instance, even if no other, his statements are pretty accurate.
Is the media tip-toeing around the problems re 'racism' within the Democratic party because it's so much less controversial (and easier) to follow the 'Racist Trump' narrative - I don't know, but it certainly looks that way and it certainly looks biased.
Moreover, there were big headlines about a certain Georgia state rep being told to 'go back' by a 'white man' after Trump's recent tweets and it now appears she made that comment up - where are the big headlines seeking accountability? Nowhere. More bias. More acutal racism not held to account.
The Dems look like hypocrites to anyone paying attention and the media (in general) is aiding and abetting this hypocrisy.
9
@Logan There is a list of forbidden topics that the media follows in favor of the Dems.
1
The rise of racist and populist leaders in the west seems to have caught progressive politicians by surprise. They seem to have no adequate response to this phenomenon.
The key may be in what these Trump voters said. They find Trump's tweets juvenile. A campaign based upon Trump's own excessive words and distasteful tweets, may go some way to combat his popularity.
I think the problem fundamentally is that very few voters are interested in policy, they want somebody to identify with. Many white middle class people identify with Trump. Therefore, Trump must be shown to be somebody they can't identify with.
5
Trumpian fascism has its supporters. In this it is no different than the earlier versions of fascism enmeshed in the wars and social upheaval of the last century. A unplanned social system based on inequality and the property rights of a few rich men is not stable -- especially during a time of rapid technological change. Such change amplifies social conflict by pitting those who can adapt or are just lucky against those who are left behind.
The proper course for Democrats is not to go mealy mouth middle. This strategy was tried and it failed. Democrats should emphasize what is obviously needed: economic, social and environmental planning on a global scale. Forget about trying to seduce the fascists, nationalists, macho war mongers, racists and xenophobes. They are cannon fodder for those privileged men who run the world economy. They too are victims but most obviously they do not know how to save themselves and are too set in a traditional past to get beyond their prejudices and see the need for planning and social reorganization.
Trumpian fascism and its worldwide equivalents are a symptom of an unstable world economic system that uses democracy and nationalism to advance dictatorship and authoritarian rule. The road through fascism is not accommodation. The people who voted for Trump were wrong -- absolutely wrong -- in their conservative desire for an unattainable past and in not seeing the inevitable direction of world society.
4
Why are we, Democrats such wimps when it comes to fighting the vicious attacks on our female candidates and elected officials. ? We allowed Republicans to smear Hillary Clinton and now they are doing it to Nancy Pelosi and "the Squad".
Please, let us figure out how to stop these bullies who have no substance only nastiness to their attacks.
We women need to learn to fight these bullies. ASAP.
6
I’ve given up. Trump being re-elected is a certainty. He may be a horrible person, but he could be the greatest politician ever, he gets the mood of the people, he gets the media and can control it. He simply can’t be beaten.
I’m just hoping he won’t get a 3rd term, which he might. He truly is unbeatable in an election and with public opinion
9
@Peter H
Attributing the cache of politician to Trump belies the actual truth in how he 'gets' the mood of the people.
He's a con man who knows his mark, and he was taught by masters.
2
@Peter H
No 'may' about it. He IS a horrible person.
Unfortunately, you are correct about re-election. And potential to 'overstay' into a 3rd term. If Wilbur Ross can fall asleep during meetings, there truly is no bar too difficult to clear to be part of this white, aging administration.
Despite the (near) certainty of re-election, I'll pull the other lever (I don't care if the Energizer Bunny is the nominee) ... and pray.
I'm disappointed in the work of these two reporters. Michigan elected Democratic women to its administration in 2018 - Governor Gretchen Whitmer, Secretary of State Jocelyn Benson, and Attorney General Dana Nessel. Our Lieutenant Governor is Garlin Gilchrist (D), an African American. Why didn't they explore the reasons for the change? Why not talk to the voters who elected them?
Steve Upton and Bill Huizinga are Republican representatives from Michigan in the US House who nearly lost their seats due to their support for the Trump administration and their refusal to meet with their constituents. Why didn't these reporters interview the constituents in their districts?
Michigan voters have lost patience with a party that neglects its constituents. Steve Upton seems to have gotten the message - he spoke out last week re: immigrant detention centers because his district relies on the work of those same immigrants to harvest the crops in his district.
Please, NYT - you can do better. We are more than the caricatures you portrayed in this report.
8
I grew up in Birmingham (Alabama, not Michigan) and I’m old enough to remember the word “Colored” on water fountains and restroom doors. It was a bit shocking to hear that word still being tossed around, but perhaps, in a strange way, a bit comforting to this Southerner, to hear it spoken in Michigan-not Alabama. Perhaps the point is that many older, white Americans are still reeling from having an African American president. Supporting Trump is their “Gotcha”.
As to the comment regarding interviewing people working in the kitchen. If your take is that they are probably all “illegals” then you might also want to ask who hired them.
6
Race- baiting and fear-mongering are Trump's bread and butter. I trust the good people of Michigan can see through these elementary ploys and vote as they did in the mid-terms.
I can't believe the majority of Michigan voters support a man who sides with our adversaries before our own intelligence, treats women in a disgusting manner, mocks the disabled, and literally puts children in cages in the most abject conditions imaginable.
3
As a Michigander, I’m filled with disbelief and frustration. Perhaps the residents of St. Clair forget that a Democratic President (Obama) bailed out the Big 3 Auto companies in 2008, while the republicans said “let them fail.” Perhaps they do not remember the Flint water crisis where a republican governor (Synder) did practically nothing for a long time. I can understand short-term memory loss, but I cannot imagine that my state would have residents who are so blatantly racist. However, if the 2018 elections are an indication, I do think that democrats can win Michigan back. Hopefully the residents of St. Clair that this article profiled are in the minority.
571
@Chuck
"Pray for an economic downturn, just a brief one, enough to make people remember that solid economic policies are what's important, not the color of someone's skin."
If we cannot convince people to vote for our candidates without a tragedy then we are in terrible shape and likely won't win, and don't deserve to. Are we just going to stay in power based on luck and bad things happening to others. Even if it did work we would have no way to stay in power and the cycle repeats again. That is why we are where we are. Just reacting to the latest soundbite and no strategy to move forward for this generation and the next.
9
@jen
.. That's great.. but Obama isn't running for President anymore.. And the current candidates are not appealing to these voters..
7
@jen The memory loss in politics has always been a blow to democrats. We do things well and then you get people like Trump who makes it look like we're evil and they lap it up like a thirsty dog on a hot day, completely forgetting how they got there.
Pray for an economic downturn, just a brief one, enough to make people remember that solid economic policies are what's important, not the color of someone's skin.
What's even sadder is how they rationalize his racism as not that big a deal.
59
In the end, the president we elect as a country is a reflection of us. If our country ends up re-electing Donald Trump as president despite what they know about him and have seen, then we get the president we deserve. For myself, I have convinced a friend who never voted to vote against him, and am in the process of trying to convince her to try to talk to her never-voting son into voting against him, too. Trying to convince non-voters who have never voted to vote against him (because they can't stand him) is the best strategy I can think of, because articles like this demonstrate how we're not going to change the minds of his supporters. I hope for our sake, when it counts, that there's more of us than there are of them.
18
@DJKC But because of the electoral college, he was elected even though more people voted for Clinton. That is the exact opposite of getting what we deserve.
3
@DJKC certainly cheaper then what I do. I stand outside polling booths and offer free cartons of cigarettes for any who change their vote from liberal to conservative.
1
Best strategy! Our best chance to kick this fool out of the White House is to try to get those that never voted to vote - and vote for ANYBODY but Trump!
Of course cultivating racism all while spreading fake news 24/7 will help the GOP during the next elections, as that's the only reason why they're so heavily investing in it.
In the meanwhile, as Gandhi said:
“Those who say spirituality has nothing to do with politics do not know what spirituality really means.”
A totally amoral GOP will NEVER be able to MAGA.
And the more Democrats talk about fundamental moral values, on which deep in their heart all decent citizens cannot but agree with - including a majority of GOP voters - the more it will become clear WHY joining the GOP and becoming a victim to their racist, violent rhetoric, cannot but weaken us, and will NEVER lead to real strength.
What the country needs today is a second Obama Philadelphia speech, showing how "both sides" in the end only want a peaceful and thriving society, all while making clear why racism, although perfectly understandable and not implying that people with racist ideas ARE "evil" or "bad people", unfortunately isn't very helpful, quite on the contrary.
Yes WE can ... !!
5
@Ana Luisa Better to emphasize economics than morals.
For the first time in my 71 years, voting every year, I am voting Republican.
Reason? Far leftists keep calling me "Republican-lite" and dismissing anything I say unless it toes the far left party line.
Trump doesn't diss me. Simple as that.
21
@Travelers
"For the first time in my 71 years, voting every year, I am voting Republican."
Somehow, I don't believe you.
===
"Trump doesn't diss me."
But he disses nearly every other person in the world, including over half of Americans. What does that tell you?
5
“And though they dismiss Mr. Trump’s Twitter broadsides as excessive or juvenile, they voiced strong support for his re-election and expressed their own misgivings about the four women.”
Translation: they are fans of ‘lil DJ Trump.
6
If they like Trump's "go back" attack, we already know all we need to know about them. Before he was POTUS, Trump was King-of-the-Birthers. Eight years of a black man in the white house is the basis for their "anger", and the Republicans are going to keep it rolling, and double-down.
16
The ethos is: hate thy neighbor.
Trump is a narcissistic demagogic scapegoating bully and he sways people by using the same tactics used by other caudillos: he defines the "other" and attacks, hoping that the "majority" will turn on the minority.
The supporters are marks. They may be members of the cult of personality similar to dictators, the fuel is peer pressure.
Trump should have been exposed by the media before the last election. Many of the true believers have blind faith, but some will see the light. The truth can set them free.
This year, the majority will be Democrats if they perform an intervention and get out the vote.
8
I don't know that this article really says much about what's happening in the run up to the election, other than that Trump's supporters have already made their peace with the fact that he's a bigot.
16
And in many cases like it
1
“...if you don’t like it, do something different about it.”
Um, they are. They ran for and won seats in the United States Congress. What have you done for your country?
27
Well, I paid back my student loans. Paid an obscene amount in taxes. Worked more than most folks in a lifetime. And, I still hear, "No, where are you FROM?" Um, right here. And I can engage in as much public discourse as I want. "Quit bitching," you say? Well, why don't we start with something easy, say "Quit tweeting." Seriously, don't we all have better things to do?
10
The dems lost this battle on two fronts. Not just with conservative Republicans but also longtime Democrats are tired of the show.
First of all there is a lot of truth in that these four need to go back and address issues in their own districts instead of federal issues. Each come from districts with numerous issues. They won't even go after city or state issues. Where is their outrage over Con Ed, Flint water and police abuse or corruption? All issues they can personally address in their own backyards and Institute change on a local level. Something that would show they are truly about change instead of just making a name for themselves on social media.
Second you had African Americans , the loyalist voting block for democrats, complaining that they had heard worse for generations. Yet never saw that response from democrats until it was directed at women who were perceived as recent immigrants. It was even worse when the Eric Garner decision came out at the same time and once again democratic leaders just shrugged their shoulders.
I know many democrats who are fed up with the hate Trump campaign while real issues get ignored. I know democrats who have donated for decades but have closed their wallets. They do not like the direction the democrats are going in. Yes they do want progressive change but not what is being touted by the extreme tea party version of the left.
13
So they’d rather let Trump win again? Brilliant.
4
The GOP strategy of demonizing minorities, cutting educational opportunities, denying abortions, suppressing votes, gerrymandering, and increasing poverty will backfire in the future with social upheavals and demographic challenges the Trumpists would shudder to consider. Imagine a populace so angry and abused by government that it puts an American Fidel Castro in power. The elites in business and government need to find better ways to share power and wealth rather than divides us with hate and fear.
7
It seems wholly counterproductive to interview Trump supporters about why they support the man they voted for over four freshmen congresswomen whom they likely know little about. Trump tweeted offensive remarks, but he's been tweeting offensive content since day one. His supporters knew that when they voted for him, so for the media to act as if his attacks on a few congresswomen is going to somehow lead to his downfall is naive. As many others have pointed out, Democrats should be concerned with Independents and swing voters, not Republicans.
Although the anti-immigrant sentiment we're seeing today is intertwined with racism, American culture has long been permeated with a fear of invasion. Early settlers lived in fear of neighboring tribes, and many immigrants came to the US in order to escape war in their own countries. For the entirety of the Cold War, the paranoia of a potential Soviet invasion influenced everything from politics to pop culture. What feels overblown in hindsight is perceived as very real in the present moment, regardless of whether there truly is a threat. If I had to wager, the Democratic candidate who has the best shot at winning against Donald Trump will be the one who can best convince voters that they will remain physically safe while he or she is in office.
2
Why interview people who are already committed to, at least, a conservative position, and possibly to a populist, nationalist, or even white nationalist position? This is "confirming data" (we already knew, or highly suspected, this would be the case, given the "demographic"), and it's not very informative at all with respect to the effect that current messaging is REALLY having.
6
“America, love it or leave it.” Where have I heard that before. Oh yeah. That’s what they told protesters of the Vietnam War. It’s because we love our country that we don’t automatically defend all of its policies or its so-called president.
11
@CaroleR,
"Love it or leave it" was a staple during the Vietnam war; but then new citizens wouldn't know it.
Every time I turn on Fox News and see our highly moral and compassionate president sitting in the Oval Office my heart fills with joy!
5
The Republican Party and 45 commit a disproportionately significant percentage of time, effort, and resources viciously vilifying and destructively denigrating the 4 Congresswomen of colour, cloaking the attack based upon alleged lack of love of America, supposedly being unpatriotic, presumptively anti-Israel, but quickly adding that race has nothing to do with the racist campaign. Nothing could be further from the truth. The 4 rising stars of the Democratic party exhibit great courage and intestinal fortitude directly challenging the bankrupt policies 45 blindly hails as successes. Dissent and disagreement are recognized in this Republic. Agree to disagree. 45 attacks those who openly voice issue and seriously question his actions on policy matters simply because they refuse to genuflect and bow their heads in lockstep fashion as the emasculated leadership of the GOP consistently prove. These 4 brace Congressional representatives have the guts to tell it like it is and take a stand. I agree and subscribe to their individual and collective positions and beliefs. Dissent in Congress is expected. 45 doesn't tell Bernie to go back to Russia but attacks him anyway. Difference here is racial and ethnic differentiation. Let history be a guide. In August 1964 Senators Wayne Morse (D-OR) and Ernest Greuning (D-AK) expressed their dissent with LBJ, casting the only no votes to the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution. Their prophecy about Vietnam proved correct. I back the 4! Race matters.
2
Numbers ,hate to tell you ,not important.Clinton had a 95% lead the day before the election. 95% of Trump voters do not crusade ,nobody even knows who they are.
6
There are definitely pockets of this state with conservative voters. As a liberal, I was disheartened when my husband and I vacationed up north in 2008 & 2012 and saw all the McCain, then Romney signs. And yet, Michigan voted twice for Obama.
From 1992 until 2012, Michigan voted blue. In 2016, the current president took our state by less than 11,000 votes.
And for those commentators who say people flee our state? Sometimes, they come back again. Like my husband and I did after 13 years on the East Coast. There are plenty of passionate liberals here AND we're surrounded by 90 percent of America's surface fresh water with the Great Lakes.
12
@Anne 2016 political signs were different in northern Michigan. There was nary a sign anywhere leading up to Election Day. It was only AFTER Trump won that the signs sprouted in mid-November like crocuses in March. It was as if nobody wanted to admit they were pro-Trump until they found out how much company they had. Of course, they weren't pro-Trump as much as they were anti-Clinton.
2
The key statement in the article is the following "There are some cautionary signs for his 2020 campaign, a prognosis reflected anecdotally and in Republicans’ private polling in Michigan. When the president is matched against a Democratic opponent like Joseph R. Biden Jr. or Senator Bernie Sanders of Vermont, he loses. Crucially, he has not reached 50 percent in any polls taken in Michigan, a perilous position for any incumbent." Right now the only image the public has of the Democrats is the Squad. Once a more centrist candidate emerges then the negative impact of the Squad should disappear.
6
@Speculator 95% of Trump voters are the silent type .
2
So the theory of this article is that a POTUS who tells Freshman women of color in Congress to "go back where they came from" is helping himself with this behavior? The only people who will respond to that are already die-hard members of the cult.
It's the job of everyone who still hopes to have a functioning republic to oppose this guy. I will vote for any of the Democrats - not just my favorites. And any Republicans who secretly are appalled by this president but can't bring themselves to vote for a Democrat - not voting could be the most patriotic thing you can do.
13
@Lynne,I am with you, my vote is locked already, for TRUMP.
1
Democrats need to face some hard realities. Primarily, the fact that the Electoral College is stacked against them and what that means: Republicans can swing to the right and succeed in a national election. Democrats cannot swing to the left and win. An extra 1-2 million votes from coastal states is meaningless.
In addition, you don't get to define what "moderate" means to anyone other than yourself. Many 2016 voters in swing states did not think Hillary was moderate. It doesn't matter whether you think their opinion is incorrect.
Lastly, this is politics. You don't need to be so forthcoming. Quit highlighting (even very legitimate) fringe issues that don't play well in swing states. Of course we should discuss reparations, but please remember that a majority of the voters are white.
Campaign to win - there is no rule that says you can't enact legislation you didn't campaign on.
7
Now that we've heard so much from this president's supporters, thanks to the New York Times, can we now hear from the other side as well?
19
Sometimes a picture just eclipses the article entirely.
How is a food service director smiling at us from his sailboat? How does someone in food service retire on the early side with a boat? This seems a wee bit crazy to those of us raised in the era of the demise of the pension.
This is about a generational divide as well. The world has changed but the voters who decide elections are the same.
3
@LS A cursory search reveals he's 54 years old and worked for Macomb County government. I'm guessing he probably ran food service at the county jail. If that's true, he was probably classified as law enforcement and got to retire with a full immediate pension with 25 years of service--retiree health care included.
He's not wearing a wedding band and his Facebook photos are all with dogs. If he has no wife or children, saving enough to own a home and buy a used boat--or even a new one--isn't all that hard if those are one's priorities.
2
There are many angry voters in this country and it comes down to money inequities. The 2017 tax law made affairs much worse due to the shift of income higher up the ladder. Anti-Globalization sentiments brought Trump into power and into forms of isolationism, a loser’s approach to solving our inequities. He is currently acting like someone told him ‘anything’ goes and he has no sense of presidential decorum or personal filters of any type. These characteristics are bringing out the worst in voters and they are mimicking the president in attitudes as well as actions. We need a change back to national civility and decorum.
10
I would be interested to know the immigration history of every one of these voters, i.e. when did the first members of their families come over to the U.S. from another place and what would happen if they now all had to go back because of this "foreign origin." Except for Native Americans everyone here is basically from immigrant roots. Also, the shape of the world has changed to such a great degree that migration, immigration, refugees, climate victims, etc. are daily increasing. What will we do with all these people? They cannot go back to countries destroyed by war, made barren by famine, affected by climate change, and victims of economic upheaval. We will have to deal with these problems, and the "go back" strategy is unworkable.
3
It’s a massive underlying yet conspicuous crisis of education, and Trump and the GOP avail themselves of every opportunity to subvert the needs of their very constituencies to push their own agenda, and no this is not how it happens all of the time. It is not the system that is rigged or the government that’s to blame. The fault lies with people themselves who do not avail themselves of abundant opportunities to improve themselves but vote instead against their own interests and for simpletons like Trump or McConnelll who substitute nostalgia, or a myth, for laziness.
6
In other news, the sky is blue and water is wet. All this article does is reaffirm what all of us already know about Trump and the Trump base. It also has the perhaps unintentional effect of stoking more fear and anger from the democrats and dividing this country further. Maybe instead of interviewing the same old bitter, angry, closed-minded MINORITY group of overwhelmingly white and mid-to-working class voters, the media should focus more on the republicans who have some semblance of critical thinking skills left and are able to feel apprehensive and skeptical of another Trump term. Even better, spend more time interviewing the independents and center-left democrats who regret voting for trump in 2016 so we could learn from the mistakes/shortcomings that led to that, and what we could do to stop that from happening again next year.
16
And this is how we lose our Republic. Imagine if Barack Obama attacked his own citizens as viscously as Donald Trump attacks his. Dissent and free speech is an essential part of a democracy. The president, and the other governing bodies, are supposed be caretakers of this.
Attacking, denigrating, and threatening the safety of your own citizens is not the behavior of a president, it's the behavior of dictator. By continuing their support, they willfully propagate a system that discriminates non-white people specifically for the benefit of those that are white.
In high school we read "How to kill a mockingbird", where we find before you judge someone (if you should ever judge someone), you should spend some time in their shoes.
What would you do, what would you say, if the most powerful man in the world, literally, was attacking you, and you were a woman of color?
You feel that threatened by these four women that you are willing to bury liberty at the foot of Donald Trump?
To win, like 2016, he is intentionally trying to divide us. Last I checked we were not the Separate States of America, we are the United States of America.
(From a working class white male independent.)
9
The squad just happens to be females of... so the press is saying. Trump had something to say about all 16 candidates that ran against him in 2016. How many of them were people color? I wonder why the press and the Democrats didn’t call him a racist when he poked at Ted Cruz and Marco Rubio? Trump voters are smarter than most that read paper. Trump voters know this is a made up story just like Russian collusion and obstruction. Fake and made up news.
5
We are engaged in an essentially non-violent civil war...so far it's essentially non-violent.
If Mr. Trump is re-elected our liberty is at stake; the First Amendment (the press is the enemy of the people) is at grave risk; diversity will be decimated by unconscionable rules against the immigration of people of color; voting rights will be eviscerated by gerrymandering and unconstitutional restrictions placed upon registered black voters and much more which will irreparably change who and what we are as a country. Some would prefer these changes. Some would have preferred the South to have won.
What would we be if the Confederacy won in the real civil war?
5
If there isn't a better example of why Democrats should stop wasting time and energy on trying to "win back" these trump voters, this country is doomed.
Stop trying to get these people to vote Dem, and instead start fighting for the rest of us who believe in Elizabeth Warren, AOC, etc., and their ideas. THAT is what will motivate younger voters, myself included, to get out and vote. Parading Grandpa Joe out there as your best hope to beat trump is a waste of time and you will lose most of the youth vote.
8
@Mike I'd be willing to bet you don't believe you are biased and discriminatory but your words belie your attitudes. You say you won't vote at all if "Grandpa Joe" is the Democratic candidate. That's age discrimination, just as discrimination against a black woman. Would you instead be willing to give Trump another four years? Personally, I also support Elizabeth Warren. This year my donations to her campaign will equal a full month of pay for me. How about you? (No, I'm not saying everyone should do the same but I'm putting my money on the side of the person I think will help our country the most.) But if Mr. Biden is the Democratic nominee, I will vote for him - guaranteed. I was also young at one time and also prone to take Quixotic stands (still do at times) but I always voted my conscience for the best candidate nominated and I always voted. We need your vote to shake off Trump and we need you to get out and convince your friends to vote also. Don't leave it to only us old-bones to save America from a despotic fiend.
1
Trump just said that he doesn’t think the squad is very smart. He says that about so many people. But now it is racist. Everyone can see that except for the left who just wants this to be a race issue.
I am growing weary of the continued use of the race card. And I used to look at the squad as members of congress. Now I see them for what they call themselves. Woman of color. Seems to me that the democrats don’t want racism to end. Race relations have never been better and that is a threat to the democrats.
9
This infuriates me, because I don't understand why the Democratic party can't seem to see how out of step their stance on immigration is compared to most of the country. It's not just conservatives in Michigan. I'm a New York liberal, as are most of my friends, and not one of us supports open borders, dismantling ICE, or giving free healthcare to illegal immigrants. While most of the people I know will vote Dem anyway because our greatest nightmare is Trump filling two more Supreme Court seats, many voters around the country are easily distracted by "the Squad" and their antics.
To win, Dems need to identify a middle ground between open borders and children in cages -- this is not hard to do, Canada, for example, does it -- and propose immigration reform that is both sensible and humane. Then move on to the real kitchen table issues, like healthcare and retirement security for native-born Americans and legal citizens, infrastructure, campaign finance, and housing. Motivate women voters with Kavanaugh's sneer, and asking them if they want two more of same. Remind everyone that Trump thinks some neo-Nazis are "very fine people." Ask the young if they want a planet they can live on in 50 years.
7
@Nikki,
I think Schumer most have read the polls; he went to the border, finally; he has even said "democrats are willing to act on immigration, but "Republicans wont let him."
There he goes again with the passive, helpless voice.
This is why young educated people are leaving Michigan in droves. That's what I did, and my job prospects and salary tripled.
13
I may be wrong, but I'm hearing more and more that "Medicare for All", and especially offering some kind of health care benefits to migrants or asylum-seekers are huge turn-offs to a lot of white voters in the middle of the country--people who don't even really like Trump.
But I'm also having trouble finding out exactly what the Democratic candidates want to do about the problems of illegal immigration, because there seems to be so much propaganda about "open borders" and "free medical care" from people who seem like obvious anti-Democratic partisans, that unless you watch the candidates yourself on TV, its hard to know exactly what they are advocating.
And I don't write this to excuse Trump's bigoted remarks, since there is no excuse for a president behaving like that.
But it seems like the Democrats need to find a moderate and cogent position on these issues fast, or the whole upper Midwest could be in jeopardy again. Maybe it will be different this time, but there's no point in winning the popular vote mainly on the East and West coasts if you can't win the electoral college!
7
@Bryan, I think it is too late; their words and opinions are forever on Youtube
Clearly the bottom line continues to be that, if recapture of "purple" state electoral votes is needed to oust SCUMpf, the ONLY Democratic candidate that makes sense is Biden. Some things are more important than others.
4
My family moved to Michigan in the 50's. The people of that state value sincerity and authenticity. Trump was allowed to pull the wool over their eyes and beat Hillary, who came across as a fake and never even campaigned. Bernie Sanders, a true populist, would wipe the floor with Trump in Michigan, but he might be the only Democrat who could do so.
4
The trump panacea , anybody know when it’s supposed to happen?
2
Sixty million people, or about half of all voters, voted for Trump in 2016. They agreed with his racism, misogynism, xenophobia, intolerance and extreme Conservatism. They support him and his policies no matter what they tell pollsters. It looks like this nightmare will only get worse thanks to Republicans’ succesful efforts at voter suppression and gerrymandering as well as the rivers of dark money pouring into Republican coffers thanks to Citizens United. Trump is only the most public face of American racism, misogynism, xenophobia, religious intolerance, and extreme Conservatism. He may be impeached, but what he stands for can’t be impeached away and out of American culture and society. Even if he were to be impeached and resigned, somebody else just like him would take his place because since Bush I was elected, Conservatives started working to create a permanent Conservative political substructure that was put in place bit by bit, law by law, state by state, to produce an administration just like Trump’s. Finally it delivered, and if Trump were forced out of power, somebody just like him would take over and that will not change until Trump voters switch their votes (something very unlikely to happen, as this story shows). The worst is that we let this happen while we were watching, with eyes wide open, the rise of fascism in America, but decided to call it something else: White flight to the suburbs, Religious Revival, Tea Party Revilution, etc etc
5
This particular area and generation experienced economic dislocation from the turmoil of Detroit racial politics in the 70’s and 80’s as well as the elimination of blue collar automotive jobs as so well documented in Michael Moore’s “Roger and Me”.
It will be interesting to see if a progressive message can take hold in this area; I’m from Michigan, and I’m not so sure the support for Trump is so monolithic
9
They don't see it as being racist because it's been ingrained into them , don't want to see it as such , and it's been a way of life generation after generation . The squad is not doing the Democrats any favors either , as appalling as Trump's lies and accusations are , they're helping his cause and doing a lot of damage . I don't see either of the four being re-elected , throwing verbal bombs , being disruptive and disrespecting the liberal , conservative or middle democrats will not help but like the Trump supporters , they choose not to see . God help us .
3
Ms Tlaib’s and members of her squad better tone down a rhetoric that offends many Americans of all political persuasions, as the Michigan’s voters in this story. Those are the voters who will cast a vote for a sound economy, not for experiments in socialism. In her irrational hate for Trump, and all he supposedly represents, she is helping polarize those who otherwise vote democrat in 2020.
6
I have family up there. Very nice people. Kind, helpful, attentive to the older people in the family. Here is what animates them
1) Facebook - They spout nonsensical stuff and usually only remember the last thing they read on Facebook
2) Fox TV 24/7
3) They are immersed in local TV and get a huge dose of the crime and mayhem that is Detroit - a city that is over 90% black, extremely poor, with loads of non stop violent crime for the TV newscasters to peddle
4) Guns and the thought they will "be protected" as long as they have them.
Keep in mind there is little if any murder up in St Clair/Port Huron. A few miles out of town, you'd think you were in the middle of nowhere - it is pure farmland.
At the July 4th picnic the most right wing adult in the group - walked in the door and before hugs and kisses were finished, was asking about what everyone thought that "transgendered were taking over all athletics" and it was a terrible situation for the High Schools.
We asked a few follow up questions, she stopped, and said. "I heard it's a big problem". This is a person with a union pension. If you ask about Republican disdain for unions the response is "It was good, but now all the lazy people have ruined unions". And so on. They typically cannot offer up facts and will never, under any circumstances change their minds.
Like a said it's a closed loop of Facebook, Fox and local news (murder and mayhem). But, the barbecue was great!
10
I’ll be voting Trump. The Dems are scary to me.
10
To all of those commenters simultaneously outraged by Trump, the people profiled in this article and the NYT for profiling them:
Stop asking whether Dems deserve to win. Start asking how.
2
I am glad they are not my neighbor and if they were we would not be friends. They are certainly not "Christian" I.e. the teachings of Jesus Christ, although I imagine most think they are. They are the people who in the 1950s wouldn't give my Jewish father a job nor in the 1910s give my wife's Irish grandfather a job. They are the reason the Conservative Warren Supreme Court decided to enforce the meaning of our Constitution.
4
I don't get it, why do Democrats take the passive voice,i.e., someone is controlling them , someone won't let them have a chance to speak their values, someone is putting words in their mouths.
On every issue that voters are concerned about, they cry Trump wont let us, Trump is controlling the narrative; yet, the ONLY area where the are active is in their support for illegal immigration and on denouncing anyone who does not share their opinions.
Get a grip please, citizens pay the bills.
2
I fail to see the value of this article. These folks voted almost entirely for Trump in 2016, no doubt vote Republican in other races and can rationalize almost anything about the con man except maybe murder and child rape.
Thus, I must conclude the real agenda here dear Gray Lady is to validate the false electoral world view of our party's hard Left. In their mistaken view the electorate in the swing states a/k/a the ones we must win , is made up of this type profiled, and the Left and no others of consequence. Then they say, go Left, emphasize identity politics and forget the center-left. Trump's greatest wish and hope in other words. What a dangerously false and losing view.
How about suburban women with degrees or residents more upscale suburbs? I could name several other groups but the point is the profiled group and the Tlaib backers are polarities far from the whole Michigan electorate. It's about turnout and ground game and the Democrats are starting to worry me on that aspect.
2
I agree with the commenter who observed that there seems to be a tendency for reporters to interview white people in small towns, who like Trump, and then hypothesize that there voting preference reflects the preference of other voters in their state. I guess this falls under the category of “a human interest story” but is not political reporting. I live in Michigan and know a lot of voters that are terrified of the prospect of another 4 years of Trump. I’m pretty sure they intend to vote as they did in the Midterms electing Democratic women to the offices of Governor, Attorney General and Sec of State.
943
@Eugene
I so hope you're right!
I am afeared.....
48
@Eugene Agreed. My entire family's from Michigan, and I head up every summer to visit them both in Ann Arbor and the UP (Upper Peninsula for non-Michiganders). It should be stating the obvious that a large majority of the state's population lives in the Detroit area. The second-largest city is Grand Rapids, on the far western side of the state. Its next biggest population centers are both centered around liberal-leaning college towns: Lansing/East Lansing and Kalamazoo.
Despite Port Huron's location "only an hour" from Detroit -- never mind that 80% of the area in-between the two is barely populated -- the only times I can previously recall seeing or hearing it mentioned have been in the context of it being adjacent to the only entry point (via land) into Canada outside of Detroit proper (aside from Sault Ste. Marie, which is practically halfway to the Arctic Circle).
I fail to see how the views of its rural citizenry -- and a small sliver of it at that -- can in any realistic context been viewed as representative of the state as a whole.
88
@Martin Sorenson your comment flies in the face of the fact that Michigan voted for Trump. Trump voiced disdain for NAFTA, getting many labor votes from your state. Large waves of immigration likewise impact working class people the hardest. Ignore the thought of working class Michiganders at your peril. They have seen the extremes of Democratic policy - it’s called Detroit. You are telling about half the story. Maybe a little more or a little less!
16
I have a background in PR and this is where the Democrats fall off every time. They just get hammered by the messaging (Obamacare, socialists, death panels, etc...) which just stokes fear as evidenced by these folks.
If the Democrats would pound back just as hard, they would get the message out there that healthcare and increasing taxes on the wealthiest isn't socialism but actually is fair and will help them.
653
@Al So true! Democrats play nice, and complain that Republicans don’t play fair. Actually, Republicans use one syllable words instead of position papers, and it works. Democrats need a few more of those broad techniques. Hammering can be a good thing
68
The reality is that much of the Democratic Party establishment is controlled by the same corporate entities that pull the strings of the Republicans. This explains a lot — though not all — of why the party seems incapable of adopting a unified front, or of taking a strong stand on almost anything.
In 2016, rather than capitalizing on the momentum of Bernie Sanders’ underdog campaign, on the contrary the party spent huge efforts working actively to undermine it, blaming him for Hillary’s loss even to this day. This year has shown they have learned nothing except how to double down on their mistakes. Rather than seeing the anti-semitism charges against Omar for the canard they were, Democrats happily jumped on the accusation train as a way to undermine her support. Witnessing the popularity of AOC — an intelligent, scrappy and passionate natural leader whose personal story is inspiring, whose policy ideas often enjoy wide support and who Democrats should be thanking their lucky stars is on their team — Pelosi has done nothing but belittle her, refused to back or even substantively discuss ideas like the GND or M4A.
The reason Dems have such a tough time with messaging is that their actual ideology is so suspect. They’re increasingly revealed for being corporate toadies whose primary job is to act as soft opposition to an increasingly ascendant far right wing. It’s tough to adopt a coherent strategy when talking out of both sides of your mouth.
35
@Al
Sadly that won't happen until you get rid of Pelosi and the rest of the Dem "leadership." They're still playing the same game the GOP stopped playing 40 years ago.
16
Given how important the state of Michigan is to Trump, I would imagine the GOP is going to saturate the ground with promotional efforts.
I can only hope the Democratic Party has a better strategy this time than last. Perhaps sending its candidate to the state to campaign, for example?
321
@Adam At least, I expect, it will be a different candidate this time.
5
@Adam
" I can only hope the Democratic Party has a better strategy this time than last..."
They don't. And you won't be surprised by that, will you? I'm a lifelong dem, having worked on NYC, NYS, and Federal campaigns for the better part of fifty (!) years. They never fail to disappoint us because at their core, the democrats cannot (nor have they ever been able to) get their act together. When they win elections, it's in spite of themselves, not because of brilliant strategy.
14
@Adam That's a *bit* much: Hillary visited Michigan on numerous occasions, as do all presidential candidates. Still, it's certainly true that her campaign operatives took it for granted that she'd have an "easy win" there - this despite also predicting earlier in the year that she'd "easily win" the Michigan Democratic primary. (Bernie ended up winning.)
That said, since Trump was elected Democrats have won nearly all of the biggest statewide elections in Michigan, most notably its gubernatorial race (which the Democratic contender won by a very solid 10-point margin - this after its previous Republican governor won two consecutive terms) -- and that, of course, is in addition to Detroit native Rashida Tlaib's win in the 2018 midterms that made her one of only two Muslim women ever elected to Congress.
While I agree that the GOP will pull out all the stops to win the Michigan vote, that doesn't mean Michiganders will somehow be deaf, dumb and blind to everything going on outside of campaign stops, or that they're oblivious to the overall dumpster fire of Trump's presidency on whole. (But yes, the Democrats should definitely put more effort into campaigning there next year than they did in 2016.)
8
These folks seem more concerned that four freshman congresswomen, out of 435 members of congress, might deliver socialism than that one man, who happens to be president, might deliver fascism.
19
@Peter Z,
Did you per chance hear the derogatory language used by the gentle Congresswoman from Massachusetts, a member of the squad, when she went on stage at the Root; she lambasted black people, gays, and lots of other ethnic groups who might have a different opinion than hers.
Trump is mild compared to that hate.
1
Readying ourselves for a much-anticipated trip to Germany, meine frau and I are soaking in all we can find in the way of shows, series, books, movies, etc. to prep. Of course we’re finding loads of things dramatizing the Weimar, pre-Nazi, and WWII eras. The parallels between those times and USA now are truly breathtaking, as in it makes us feel it’s hard to breathe! Unbridled nationalism, resentment of the “other,” obsession with the cult of personality, blind adherence to the propagandist’s shrill messages (hello Rush Limbaugh/ Fox News) — anyone with any sense of history has seen this play before. It never ends well.
Deep down, we know where this takes us, so let’s just stop it! Watch one of those historical dramas and ask yourself: with whom do I identify? I choose the decent few who resist and respect the downtrodden and disenfranchised — the “outsiders.” We can all do better than flow with the rudderless and hateful masses.
7
These “Love it or Leave It” Michigan Trump supporters-how do they feel about a Commander in Chief who avoided the Vietnam War because of “bone spurs” -he told Piers Morgan in an interview in England recently that he was “not a fan” of the war.This spring in France he opted not to visit an American Cemetery because it was raining.He likes to wrap himself in patriotism while all the while he does nothing patriotic, nothing that will disrupt his lavish and selfish life style to serve his country.No one has seen his tax returns-he very likely has paid little or no taxes to support this country.He apparently does not love this country or loves it only when it serves his publicity purposes.
10
We get it. There are bigots and easily manipulated people in every state. If people under 40 show up at ballot box, even with the outright, shameless cheating by Republicans, Dems win handedly in 2020. #vote 2020.
7
Why does the Times seem so fascinated with these white voters and continually give them undue attention, making them so disproportionately important? We have lots of different voters in this country, and they should ALL be getting these at-least-moderately sympathetic profiles. Many of them have been marginalized and need to have their voices heard - much more than these same old groups of “economically anxious” (cough cough) voters we keep hearing about
9
As storylines go, "Trump supporters support Trump" apparently never gets old, does it?
5
Why isn't any voter asked if they did not vote for Trump in 2016, but plan to do so now? The only evidence in the article to prove it's headline is this, “I hear it all the time from other people who say: ‘I’m a Republican. I didn’t vote for him, but I don’t see how I can’t this time,’” said Greg McNeilly, a Republican strategist..." Are there any voters who voted for Trump in 2016, but now will not? Without confirming this with actual voters, what are we to believe?
2
@Russell Elkin Let's see if he's the nominee first.
I voted for Gary Johnson in both '12 and '16. I can't say whether I'll vote for Trump until I see who all the other nominees are--just like any other candidate in any other year.
I can envision Trump saying he won't run again, too, and the Rs have to nominate someone else. The Donald seems to be in it just for himself, and maybe he has what he came for and will slink away.
Not exactly news that large swaths of Trump supporters embrace his racism. How do you think he got elected in the first place? He's got to be the most overtly racist president since Woodrow Wilson.
8
Great. Pick 3 people post hoc to confirm the narrative of the story. What would the story have been if the author had included all the other Michiganders they interviewed?
2
To those amnesiacs in Michigan and elsewhere who're cheering Trump's "Go back to where you come from," I've a message for all of you and Trump from Native Americans:
"Go back to where you came from."
And those Trump cheerleaders who don't like or understand democracy, I invite you to immigrate to Saudi Arabia or any middle-east theocratic kingdom of your choice
4
Can someone please articulate to me what is wrong with being a bigot? Seems like a lot of folks here like to call Trump and his supporters lots of names. I would never stoop as low as to vote Democrat but if I did I think a winning strategy would be to stay in the (political correctness) closet until after the election at the very least!
5
I have very little in common with people profiled in this article. I am an immigrant with an advanced degree. I define myself as a liberal. And yet I understand them perfectly well. If the alternative to Trump is a self-declared socialist, I, who was born in a socialist country and lived in European social democracies (not the same thing), will vote for Trump. If the alternative to Trump is a candidate who sees racism everywhere, while giving a pass to anti-Semitism, I, a Jew, will vote for Trump. If the alternative to Trump is a candidate embracing the platform of online censorship and college-campus suppression of free speech, I, an intellectual, will vote for Trump. I’d much rather not. I was happy to vote for Obama and donated to Hillary’s campaign. But I will not vote for a Sanders or a Warren. If the Democrats won’t get their act together and find a rational candidate, they’ll lose many more voters that the disaffected working-class whites in Michigan.
12
@Mor...." I, a Jew, will vote for Trump."....I can understand an educated person who would decline to vote for the Democratic candidate because they think they have gone too far left. But voting for Trump is not your only option, and voting for Trump makes a statement about who you are.
6
@Mor Very well said. The Democrats (except Joe Biden) are tripping all over themselves to see who can be the most left wing socialist candidate. I like Biden, but he is too old and out of step with the current Democratic party.
Trump has excellent gut instincts, and he is more than happy to shine a light on the "geek squad".
I live in North Carolina, and I have to say, most people (liberal and conservative ) here were embarrassed about the chanting at the recent ECU rally. However, since I am a Trump supporter, it didn't really bother me.
3
@W.A. Spitzer
Mor isn't actually a liberal - if you have read his/her comments in other articles you'll know that this is conservative concern trolling.
1
Presidential decorum is dying fast. Our presidential filter is becoming extinct. Our voters must be quite angry with old status quo which essentially is about money. Obama sold open markets and globalization. We now know globalization without protections for the worker does not work due to pay inequities around the globe. We should be rearranging these priorities right now. I see no move in that direction whatsoever. The GOP is ignoring their responsibilities to alleviate the income inequities. The DP will do better given the chance in 2020.
1
The majority of Trumpites haven’t the least idea what socialism is or they would know that it is today a form of Democracy and that most European countries are Democratic-Socialist countries that
thus provide for the masses certain crucial services like health care, infratstrature upkeep and clean air while encouraging ethnic diversity.
These are things we don’t have in America and need
Desperately! These are things we can have in American without being socialists or communists but just by being civilized racially integrated Americans and looking after the Other.
3
Oh, the irony. Port Huron was the birthplace of Students for a Democratic Society. The group’s founding document was called the Port Huron Statement.
5
@Jack Purdy. Yeah, written at the UAW retreat. By kids of union workers. That ship sailed in the 70's.
2
I grew up in this city where we were led to respect the office of the Presidency as a role model for it's leadership and sense of decency, regardless of party affiliation. Trump has obliterated those values. Port Huron - you are better than this (or, at least, you used to be)
4
"I voted for him and I’m going to vote for him again. He supports veterans.”
I am a 12 year AF veteran. I would like to know what he's done special for veterans besides talk. All politicians talk. He's been in office 2 1/2 years and there has been no additional support or benefits.
Real people are hurting and need more than a round of applause at baseball games.
6
@VW....Wrong. The only person Trump supports is Trump; and if you can't find a better Republican candidate to run in 2020 there is huge problem with both you and the Republican Party.
1
Is it wrong to ask whether someone checked and re-checked a ballot that omitted so many votes for president and whether any particular ballot style in any particular municipality led voters to neglect to vote? That seems like a lot of failed to vote for President ballots.
Michigan should consider mail voting like Washington and other states have. The obstacle of getting to the polls in densely populated and under-funded districts. Without a transcendent candidate like Mr. Obama, voting can seem not worth it.
Or, for example, the data in this piece: https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.freep.com/amp/95570866
At one and the same time, it is possible to disagree with the Squad's policies individually and in aggregate and also to decry the call to "send them back".
The voters you have talked to have for the most part drunk the Kool-Aid and are willing to accept Trump regardless of what thing he might do next. They mirror the Republicans in the House and Senate who have assumed willful blindness at a modus vivendi.
Mr. Trump is preaching to the choir for the most part with these people. But, let the economy wobble or let people actually hear Robert Mueller and things may change enough to tip the scales in the favor of morality and good sense.
1
It's pretty clear that the rural and small town people have never met a professional con artist, much less one like the electoral college/trump university graduate.
I'm sad to say they are very naive and gullible, living in such small communities, where a really dishonest and manipulative person is unlikely to appear, so they can't be blamed for not recognizing one. From the statements of these voters, they take everything on face value, the prime target of con artists.
It's sad, and I don't think anything can be done about it. It's a phenomenon present throughout small town America.
Maybe if they spent a vacation in a big city, where they will meet the whole sprectrum from good to bad, they would not trust a person guilty of every deadly sin...lust, gluttony, greed, wrath, envy, and, most of all, dishonesty.
And they would learn that the crow of the rooster does not cause the sun to rise; folks, rest assured that the sun rises without the rooster's crow, just as the economy rises and falls throughout history, regardless of who is president.
It's even possible to have a great economy with leaders who are moral. How, fellow Americans, do dishonesty and immorality contribute to a good economy?
1
Data from Morning Consult makes clear that Michiganders' opinions on Trump have been amazingly stable since Spring 2017. His net ratings has been hovering at right around 55% approve to 40% disapprove (net -15%) statewide, pretty awful statistics, since June 2017 with hardly a change no matter what Trump or anyone else says about race (and no matter what has happened with the economy, health care, taxes, immigration, North Korea, the 2018 election, etc. etc.).
https://morningconsult.com/tracking-trump/
I only see one takeaway from this, which is that, no matter what Michiganders think about Trump, they probably decided on him early in his presidency, and nothing he or anyone else says or does is going to change their minds.
It's a good bet that Kovach "came around to Mr. Trump" in 2017. He and the others in this story are part of the 40% got to know Trump and liked what they saw. These folks aren't going to vote for anyone other than Trump in 2020. But his Democratic challenger is won't need them anyway.
From January to June of 2017 Trump saw a steep decline in net approval from +8% to -15%. What Democrats will need for 2020 is to hold that 23% swing bloc against Trump. That requires making the 2020 election a referendum on the sitting president, which is the typical pattern, 1972 notwithstanding.
1
Look forward to reading all of these comments -- to see if any of them propose positive strategies to get the non-racists to vote. So far the DNC is silent. And the media are focusing on more, better ways to double down on Blue states.
2
@Bob T.
Listen; 250,000 blacks stayed home in Michigan. Otherwise the voting was about the same in the white areas as when Obama ran. Just forget the nonsense and register every black person in Detroit Flint, Pontiac, Benton Harbor, as well as Milwaukee, Cleveland, Cincinnati and Philadelphia.
Then, have a non stop effort by the like of JayZ, Beyonce et al, that all the micro targeting facebook ads on the phones of blacks is nonsense and false.
You might have a chance. Kushner and his pal from Austin are already targeting them. Its simple voter suppression.
Michigan elected a Democratic Governor, Attorney General and 2 US Senators.
3
@Almighty Dollar Yay! How can I help? Can this be done by phone? Thx.
LOL @ Boat Guy, the one that “plastered his Facebook page with criticism of the four freshmen congresswomen”. Guess we know why nobody under 50 is on Facebook anymore.
4
If any of my children become trumpists
their inheritance gets flushed down the drain
10
I live in Michigan but also went to college and lived for many years in the Deep South. Michigan can be just as nativist, racist and ignorant as the Deep South can be. Only here it exists without that thin veneer of Southern charm.
The white Michiganders around me are more than willing to ignore the decades of government assistance and pension largesse and vote for someone who works against their children’s and grandchildren’s futures so long as new government assistance and pension largesse is not handed out to people that don’t look like they do.
14
@Mike is so right. During the 2016 election pickup trucks equipped with Confederate flags continually drove by the entrance to the only polling site in the City of Adrian, Michigan. The drivers scowled menacingly at all voters perceived as possible threats to the election of Donald Trump . Today, in the same city on South Winter Street, people may and do buy a concrete figurine of a groveling black child, commonly known as a "lawn jockey." I could continue, but the parallels in the social mores of rural Michigan to those of the worst southern stereotypes are many, and may be more egregious in nature.
Demagoguery — which is Trump's stock in trade — ought to be a dealbreaker for thinking people with an understanding of history. If it is not a deal breaker for you, you either don't know your history, or you share Trump's hateful views, or you are happy to jump on his bandwagon of hateful views as long as he has you convinced that those economic crumbs you are getting are from him and only him. And of course, that is what he wants you to think. He brags about it constantly. But when things go down, which they very well might, he will be the first to blame someone — anyone! — else. As Trump himself would say: Believe me!
3
Is it necessary to keep referring to them as women of color?
Why not the squad or just call them congresswomen?
I understand the times is trying to build a narrative of if Trump wins it’s because of racism, but is there any other important news to be spending time on?
You should run an article about Omar and the anti Semitic BDS correlation,
That does amount to actual scary hatred.
5
@Bernard,
Many of the squad say they are women of color now, but as soon as their voting block is large enough so that they do not need the black vote, they will all claim to be white, just wait.
1
Talib is a Palestinian from Dearborn, not Detroit. And, Trump instigated NOTHING. He is only pushing back on their hateful speech about the U.S. and Israel. They brand everyone that disagrees with them as racist. Not one word of what Trump said had anything to do with race, color, gender or nationality!
7
Not one word had anything to do with nationality? Really. Then how do you tell someone go back to a different country if you don’t bring in the concept of nationality? This is the sort of brilliant thinking I’ve come to expect from Trump supporters.
3
@strongbow: I don't know where your reality is, but Trump remaining silent for 13 seconds, while his mob of ignoramouses shouted in unison "SEND HER BACK! SEND HER BACK...." prove, if not reaffirm Trump IS a racist.
What other POTUS would make a shallow denouncement of the incident, lie about trying to say it was wrong and he tried to stop it; only to backpeddle on the denouncement?
In this case, actions or inactions speak volumes over any slur or epithet.
2
Trump plays to hate and racism; never calling it that but winking; . Vote out GOP
4
These interviews might as well have been with Education Secretary Betsy DeVoss.
4
Michigan is not all Grand Rapids & Hillbilly Inc. How about a poll in Lansing, Ann Arbor, and the metro Detroit area that houses more than 60% of the Michigan voting base? How many people did Trump turn off in those areas that negate the trend in his favor? Can we get that data please ?
Metro Detroit has a thriving population of people with ancestry from the Middle East who are likely all shaking their head in morbid disgust of Trump. These are the same people who helped elect Rashida Tlaib and just for the record, Justin Amash and Fred Upton, both of whom were elected from the Western Michigan area, voted to censure Trump for racist comments. Are you telling us that these reps. don't have the pulse of their constituents?
Also, so long as the Dems can capture the UAW sentiments again, they are back in play. And anybody take a poll among the soybean farmers in Michigan that have been hurt in this trade war with China?
What we need is a comprehensive look at the pluses (against Trump) and minuses (pro Trump) as opposed to a yellow label that says "Danger Ahead". Yes that much was understood when Trump was ushered in with Russia's help. Got it.
7
@Plato
Trump carried Macomb County and got almost 44% in Oakland County and carried Monroe County. He took a lot of votes that used to go to Democrats. The point of the article is that, as of now, many of the voters who backed him last time will do so again. So, in Michigan and other places, it may come down to which side can turn out more of their base.
@Want2know. Not really. He got about the same as Romney. 250,000 blacks did not show and that was the difference. Its been documented many times.
Key sentence: "The don't think they're racists." An appeal to inclusivity won't appeal to those who don't see a racism problem in the first place. And by the way, what a shocker that a reporter found some white women who don't see racism in Trump's attacks on the squad and who probably get their "news" from Fox. Let me fix the headline. {Trump's racism} may not help him. I'm betting that there are more people with their eyes open than closed. Of course, I could be wrong, but I walk in hope.
I'm sorry but these people are ignorant and racist. They don't even know what the definition of "communist" is or that they're voting against their own interests. I grant that the Democrats are pathetic at getting out their own message, but how anyone could vote for someone as vile as Trump is beyond me.
4
Growing up, I genuinely thought Americans were somehow "better" than German citizens in the 1930s. I thought, there's no way that Americans would be capable of the same degree of racism, no way that Americans would support such a racist or undemocratic government. It's becoming increasingly clear to me that we are no better than they were. We're slipping further and further into racist fascism, and there's no easy way out.
9
not to be too simple, but a white 82 year old, and a white 57 year old are not likely democratic voters. And a preference of dems 48-46 in a state that went the other way 3 years ago, is not a recipe for disaster, but an opening. Anyone with any sense knows that in a turnout election, close states are going to be close. Show me where his racism has INCREASED the number of people who will vote for him.
3
@alan
"a white 82 year old, and a white 57 year old are not likely democratic voters."
These voters may not be Democrats, but they have a significantly and consistently higher turnout than others. There are also lots of them in a state that is demographically older and whiter than that nation as a whole. That same is true, to a greater or lesser degree in all of the upper Midwest states that flipped to Trump in 2016.
I voted for Clinton in 2016. I loathe Trump. But the Dems have swung so far left It’s very concerning. Identity politics, Medicare for illegal immigrants, eradicating debt students entered into willingly - and so on - all are a bridge too far to me. Now I understand why some Dems sat out 2016. Once more Dems snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.
7
I grew up in Macomb County and moved to Washington after getting out of law school. There are many people in Michigan from the middle east, including neighbors I had when growing up. I thought of them then and now as white. Yet we are being told that a Palestinian, Ms. Tlaib is a person of color. We also are told that an even lighter skinned member of the group of four, OAC is also a person of color. Apparently having a heritage that includes a Spanish speaking country determines the color of a person's skin. The racial spoils system we have, known as affirmative action, has become so beneficial that people deny they are white now. Lets hope that President Trump gets to appoint another Supreme Court Justice like the two he has already appointed so that affirmative action will be eliminated forever. Assimilation of different types of immigrants is becoming more important today than it was in the 1920's when immigration was cut back so that people could assimilate. Hopefully President Trump will eliminate other bastions race based institutions like Historically Black Colleges. They are a a continued bastion of segregation that hinder the assimilation of their students. If we can eliminate the race based politics of the Democratic Party that they now use as a substitute for progressive politics we can do something important for for all of the american people like moving to a four day work week.
3
@Bored: if Tlaib is a "person of color" as a Palestinian....then I am too, as a Jewish American. And so is every Israeli Jew.
We are all the same race, semites from the Middle East.
Yet I assure you, every lefty lib considers American Jews AND Israelis as white folks.
You can't have it both ways.
3
Ignorance in the sticks is not unusual. One could easily this POV from an old man who remembers the race riots 50 years in Detroit, Port Huron's closest "big city."
Now, even if the New York Times chose to write about the initiatives that the four Congresswomen have put forward, it wouldn't help folks like this Port Huron resident. A story like this would have to done in the mainstream media.
These women are trying to make America a better place. I not so sure that is Trump's goal. Trump may walk away from the major problems facing America, but these women are fighting for their constituents.
I wish the Times, Washington Post and others in the media would please stop reporting over and over again that Conservatives and right wingers are sticking with Trump. Duh: These people, and their leaders in the GOP, have proven repeatedly that they will abide by Trump for whatever reason—and the Times just keeps repeating this non-story. We all know that the election will be driven by others outside his base. We don’t need to hear from more people with racist or other extremist views who will never, ever change their positions.
8
Interesting that Trump hasn’t found any white people who disagree with him who should ‘go back’. Pelosi? Schumer? Anderson Cooper? . . .
All these four women have to say is that ‘I love America and am trying to make it better as a member of congress expressing my own views about domestic and foreign policy.’
If fellow legislators don’t agree on some things, they won’t get enacted into law. That’s how it works for these four and for Pelosi and Schumer.
I suspect that this and other articles with the same
tone are to remind readers that there are voters
out there who were, at one time, perfectly capable
of voting for a democratic candidate, but who have
little patience for what they think they are hearing from
democrats by way of MSM they normally listen to.
This is hardly surprising since the current pre primary spectacle is not designed to present anything clear and convincing
about anyone. They are designed to advertise to the
intended audience. The intended audience are party
activists from its different interest sections and mostly urban
progressives who are completely detached from
anyone in Port Huron Michigan.
In other words, this article is merely summarizing the
disconnect between a pre primary democrat
bazaar weighted to the extremes and some potential part of the electorate which is completely skeptical, of anything they think the party is saying to them through the best efforts of
dear leader to divide and conquer who saw a gift horse
presented and grabbed it.
What this genre does not yet address is who exactly
is feeling energized, motivated, engaged who was
not feeling that way in 2016, and how many such
people are there.
Is this knowable?
The moral of this seems to be that it is the NYT
reminding the party that they've veered
off the tracks and allowed trump to tar all of them
via a few new, quite progressive, and loose tongued
reps who have generated more MSM buzz than
anyone else.
I've worked in Port Huron and live in a Detroit suburb. Michigan is one divided state, and, like the rest of this country, is divided along the lines of race and education.
3
There are several members of congress who have 'radical ideas' besides 'The Squad'. There are several members of congress who were actually not born in the United States. There are a lot of members of the House who have said far harsher things about Trump. Why did he pick on just these 4 ? Because Fox News has been hammering on them since they were elected.
This is not some genius policy.
This is Trump using bigotry to try and scare white voters.
2
Trump will win because he has done a good job with tax cuts, Supreme Court justices, and criminal justice reform. The economy is doing well to.
He has or is actively trying to keep all of his promises to his party that’s why he wins.
The dems lose because they try to fill their voters with fake outrage over silly race accusations. It will work for far left whites and minority voters, but that’s it. Race is all left leaning politicians and publications talk about.
The average voter just wants to be better off at the end of the day than they were a year ago.
4
I'm fed up with how rural, homogeneous America wags the dog of the electorate.
America is a land of overwhelming diversity and pluralism everywhere else--why does a Trump sign on a barn have more political gravitas than the state of California?
5
It will be so nice when this era of petulant white grievance is over. For fifty years now the working class has been voting against their economic interests in order that they may scapegoat the dreaded "other." And when Trump finally succeeds in taking away their healthcare (the Midwest and South use Obamacare at a disproportionate rate compared to the rest of the country) they will blame... Obama!
4
Here's who I hope the Democratic candidates don't listen to: Republicans and conservatives who would never vote for a Democrat anyway! Know who was polling at 2% in summer 2007? Barack Hussein Obama. He didn't parrot conservative ideas to get moderate and independents on board while exciting the base. He was true to his ideas - some of them radical and very progressive (a la the squad) - and he not only excited the base but got independents and moderates to believe in him. It took time! It took time for people to get to know him and to hear and get excited by his ideas. Beating Trump won't happen overnight and there's no clear angle yet but listening to whiny conservatives talk about how Democratic base isn't moderate enough for them is not the way to win!
So racist white people agree with Trump. Um color me surprised! They would never vote for someone progressive anyway. I am so over the NY Times doing these interviews with people who are clearly not on the fence. Who are those people for? That's what matters Trump stans are a lost cause.
3
@AR: you are so right.
"I don't need those stupid working class states around the Great Lakes!" -- Hillary Rodham Clinton, 2016.
2
@AR
"He didn't parrot conservative ideas to get moderate and independents on board while exciting the base."
Barak Obama, in 2007-08, was very much a center-left candidate. He was not far left and could appeal to millions of moderates, which is what he did.
2
That worn-out Rust Belt states like Michigan have such outsized influence in American politics says a lot about the current condition of the Republic. Dynamic engines of growth, innovation, and development like California and New York represent the future of America but are sidelined every four years as slowly depopulating relics of the nation's industrial past call the shots. Good grief.
3
@John D.
"...worn-out Rust Belt states like Michigan"
Michigan has fairly healthy auto/mobility sector, is a large producer of food, has large and active cross-border trade with Canada, great forests and pretty good outdoor life. Michigan even has a few things that states like California don't --like access to the vast fresh waters of the Great Lakes.
2
I've just re-read Hunter S Thompson's blisteringly magnificent obituary of Richard Nixon, and cant help wondering what Dr Gonzo might have made of Trump. We need him now more than ever. And I'd like Joan Rivers back too, please.
3
I would like a objective tally of the all of the things Trump has personally had a hand in, in bettering the lives of the average American. In the context of those things that have harmed the average American. What job, beyond tweeting, golfing, and name-calling is he actually doing?
4
When I hear people continue to spread the half-truths and mistruths about these four women (or anyone else with whom the speaker fundamentally disagrees), I always ask, "Tell me specifically what and when she said it." The conversation usually ends abruptly.
2
Clinton lost Michigan by only 10,704 votes, a figure probably attributable to her complete lack of campaigning there. Conservative Michigan voters have always existed and will continue to exist, but Clinton lost Michigan because Democrats sat out. 75,000 Michigan voters did not vote for either candidate. I'm willing to bet that at least 10,704 of them would have voted for Clinton had she made the slightest effort to engage Michigan voters. Let's not forget that more people voted for Bush in 2004 than Trump in 2016.
2
@Rachel
There were two factors in 2016--Clinton's failure to spend grater time and resources in Michigan AND her team's failure to predict the sharp increase in turnout in in many very heavily white and more rural counties.
2
This is going to be a long, brutal campaign season. I'm already mentally exhausted and it's only just begun. Lucky us.
1
Observations and thoughts:
1) People can live too long. Thinking & reasoning can go out the window, and thus their voting becomes ... questionable.
2) With Trump's mental & cognitive status and stability very much in doubt, I had hoped there would be more of a discussion of any future President of either/any party needing to undergo mental health testing as a precursor to determine fitness to govern.
So far, nothing on this front, and it is an urgent matter which I hope will be addressed.
3) Mueller will testify on Wednesday, and it will change no one or nothing. Really quite extraordinary to consider that all that is in the report, the crimes and the cover-ups, won't be taken at all to task for decades to come, if ever.
4) Trump will win in 2020. Very disturbing, yet seems inevitable. I'll vote the other way ... but his weird hold on so many will be hard to break through.
What a crummy Monday, what a lousy way to start another week under this regime.
I am a Michigander. Now that that has been said, I would like for people to know that not everyone in this state loves Trump. Out of all the people I work with, and there are quite a few, only ONE person I know voted for the Cheeto King. And the one that did is very sheepish about it. She claims she “can’t remember” why she voted for him. So not ALL of Michigan has gone mad, I promise!
5
@A Bird In The Hand
And we might remember that Trump carried Pa., Ohio and Wisconsin by bigger margins that he won in Michigan.
This is a problem with messaging. The Democratic Party and the media are playing right in the hands of Trump, maybe out of defending the interests of very powerful lobbies such as the health care industry. There is no reason why there shouldn't be massive news coverage of how devastating it is, even for insured people, to get sick in the United States. It can be almost impossible for rural residents (Trump voters) to qualify for life-saving treatments such as hemodialysis, especially if they are out-of-network. Patients going in and out of the ER for being unable to afford insulin, an essential medication. Why is the NYT talking about four congresswomen of color, instead? Focus on health care and how people are struggling to make ends meet. Then Democrats may have a chance of winning in 2020. Stop making this about ideology and make this about survival.
1
You see this all over upstate NY too. People who literally don't travel more than 50 miles or less from home. Live in communities that are 98% or more white. Their experience with people of color is limited to movies and television - not news except the crime news and entertainment TV. People that don't look like, talk like, act like or worship like them are to be feared. Its what they were taught.
The "send them back" chant was a natural follow on to the bumper stickers during Vietnam - "America, love it or leave it" and "My country right or wrong". There's a kind of self defined "patriot" who firmly believes this. A person who cannot conceive of protesting and sees the First Amendment ONLY as freedom of religion and doesn't ever get the part of a Free Press or right of people to peacefully protest isn't something they can process. To them protest by people they disagree with is simply wrong, the press should support the government and that's more important than telling the truth to power. These are people who fundamentally do not understand the core underpinnings of the Constitution or what make us a nation (at least for now). I frankly don't think we're going to last much longer as a single nation. I cannot conceive of living where people like this set the rules or punished me or my kids for not agreeing or going to the right church (definitely not a synagogue, temple or mosque).
2
Four women of color, one foreign born, three of conspicuously recent foreign ancestry, all loudly proclaiming the pendency of a transformative socialist revolution. What greater gift could Trump wish for? Why would anyone expect him to exercise restraint?
The election is fifteen months away. The Democratic presidential campaign is still in its experimental phase -- finding out what works and what doesn't. One should expect a more nuanced approach to eventually emerge from the leading candidates, especially after the unwieldy field gets winnowed down.
The current one-percenter candidates have little incentive to moderate their positions. They are waving their arms wildly to attract attention. For any such competitors merely attracting 15% of the primary electorate would constitute a huge victory; they will do and say whatever it takes to garner immediate attention and worry about ultimate consequences later.
As the candidate field narrows, the survivors will need to broaden their appeal. They will figure out, for example, that a health insurance position robust enough to please the majority of voters can be cobbled together without having to dash immediately to a uniform single payer system.
More subtle refinements will emerge. There is ample time to get this exercise done. It's still early. No need to panic every time some silly comment gets eagerly reported in the media. What is fake is not the content of the news so much as exaggerated claims as to its significance.
1
@woofer
"conspicuously recent foreign ancestry?"
Donald Trump's mother was an immigrant, two of his wives are immigrants -- that is also conspicuously recent. No claims of refugee status either. What about Sen. Marco Rubio, or Sen. Ted Cruz?
1
As a Michigander, I’d like to apologize to the rest of the country for the entirely over-50 perspectives represented in this column - thus pretty much demonstrating the demographic that mainly defines Trump’s base. It is truly unfortunate that our country’s policies may continue to be defined by Americans who would like to “return” to a mythical past that never actually existed. God help our children.
35
Somehow the Times unfailingly manages to find Trump supporters who support Trump to interview and conclude that Trump supporters do support Trump. Journalism!
26
We have visited Detroit three times since 2016- to attend Tigers games. Long time- 50 year fans. Democrats. I find the city of Detroit, inspiring- there are things going on there that every large distressed American city can learn from- they hit bottom and so not much to lose but change from ground up. Investment in urban renewal and in manufacturing, and hopefully Detroit can catch up to Rust Belt successes like Pittsburgh.
That said, my closest and most racist friends are from Mich. Even though they each benefit from a strong union, and from unemployment system, etc- in other words the beneficiaries of all the "socialist" policies they hate- and boy oh boy did they hate Pres Obama.
I have cut them out of my life as it is too painful to converse- they have no respect for my opinions but sure want to tell me theirs. They are racists. And they are bitter and their own white families are full of drug addiction and failure- but hoo boy they want to blame it all on African Americans- it makes me disgusted.
26
Fred Miller identifies the issue perfectly. People who support Trump for reasons like jobs put up with the racial attacks. If I needed a job or had a job that didn't pay much I am not sure if I wouldn't feel as they seem to.
I think we need to ask ourselves what being a racist looks like. And whether supporting someone who spouts racist comments a lot is the same as being a racist. Clearly supporting a liar like Trump or a sexual assaulter like Trump doesn't make you a liar or a sexual deviant. Does it? No. But how can a moral upstanding person support Trump? If we knew that smashing kittens with sledge hammers would create jobs would we support the person with the sledge hammer? I sure hope not.
3
My country right or wrong.
My President racist or not.
All that wonderful USA USA and We're Number 1 chanting at the Olympics every 4 years was actually very revealing about who we are as a people.
Blind loyalty was what it meant then and it is what we have now. Fascism American Style.
16
More and more I believe the media and talking heads do not understand the American people at all. The people who agree with Trump are not racist, right wing nuts. They are hard working, middle class and they agree with Trump on immigration, border security, etc. Democrats have to talk with them or else they will lose it all in 2020.
5
Funny how all of these 'I'm no racist' folks find these four congresswomen repugnant and... it just so happens that they are all women and ethnic. Just a coincidence I'm sure. Their Dear Leader certainly knows his cult. It's the only thing he's remotely competent at. But these are not the voters that the Democrats need or will ever, ever get. There are swing voters who live among them, people who don't have race and resentment as their number one issue. Report to us what matters to them and who knows, maybe the Democrats will select a candidate smart enough to appeal to them. I've seen enough of these 'functional racist' types and their retrograde views. Their thoughts and opinions are not worth a single byte and besides, they make the rest of us queasy.
10
Why even bother talking to these people in the first place?
9
Is there anything that screams white privilege more than sitting on my yacht posting screeds on my Facebook page? "Rosa, bring me another Bud from the galley, then get out of my country "
19
American voters have reason to believe we can predict the tactics Trump will employ in the general election campaign in 2020.
What we do NOT know, as the huge field of Democratic hopefuls throws ideas around and gauges public reaction, is what platform the Democratic candidate will carry from the national convention and run his/her campaign on.
We’re in the early stages of a complex process.
Don’t try turning to the final page of the story. It’s yet to be written.
10
“Before mass leaders seize the power to fit reality to their lies, their propaganda is marked by its extreme contempt for facts as such, for in their opinion fact depends entirely on the power of man who can fabricate it.”
― Hannah Arendt, The Origins of Totalitarianism
12
Dennis Kovach, 82
Tim Marzolf, 57
Catherine Plichta, 63
Greg McNeilly, a Republican strategist
Ms. Smith, 54
Mr. Hayden, 54
notice the (sad) pattern?
29
@stuff
Yes, most of them are ethnic NIMBYs. Judging by their last names, their ancestors would have been looked down upon and told to "go back where they came from." Only recently have they been considered "white Americans."
(And yes, I know you were pointing out their ages.)
7
This is why it was a mistake to label this as primarily racist. Primarily, it is nativist and un American. "Love it or leave it" was the Right's favorite slogan during the Viet Nam war. The protesters were overwhelmingly white. It was not racist. It was simply un American. It still is. Of course Trump is and has always been racist. That's the Republican creed for over a century. But it's a mistake to label all the garbage that leaves his mouth as racist. That leaves little room for distinctions and lets Midwestern Trumpists off the hook
5
@Mickeyd
How is it not racist when ‘go back where you came from’ is aimed at non white women? Why does he not say the same to Elizabeth Warren or Bernie Sanders with whom he also disagrees? He absolutely is racist and we cannot be afraid to speak up.
10
I think brown liberal women are better than any old white bigot. Too bad these far right fringe Republicans disagree. My opinion is that Michigan Republicans are further Right and Trump is further Right than these women are Left. Not even close. It is sad when we live in an America where most people cannot understand that. Sadder still when the 4th estate prints Republican lies - especially those from the President.
3
This is not surprising.
He disparaged and maligned Latinos when he announced that he was running for president. It worked. People voted for him.
Despite everything he said about and did to women, most white women voted for him (not Hillary).
His racism and cruelty are one of the reasons he won. It is very sad, but this is the current state of the nation.
4
Wow, if you ask three old racists if they think Trump is racist, they don't! Remarkable!
Why do we spend so much time humoring racists about what is and isn't racist? It's still a truly remarkable difficulty for America's (white) majority to acknowledge when racism occurs, rather than endlessly have a conversation about whether things are racist (a conversation from which the victims of racism are marginalized). Newsflash: no racist is going to admit their opinions are based in racism. Anyone is capable of coming up an ex post facto rationale for their comments. It's up to media to stop humoring their baseless sentiment. Racists are racist and will continue to be. Policy will continue to be driven by America's white populous as long as every step we take as a nation is carefully planned to avoid any minor inconvenience for racist white Americans (especially at the cost of very real, immediate, obvious devastation for minorities subject to oppressive policy)
12
The gentleman quoted saying "if you don’t like it, do something different about it" leaves me somewhat speechless--getting elected to Congress to fight for one's constituents isn't "doing something about it"? Once again, NYT treats us to what has become almost boring in its familiarity: Trump's supporters simply cannot think very clearly. Or they are as racist as he is.
28
Trump would not be where he is without the support of the Republican congress. What a huge disappointment!
1
If moderate Democrats don’t speak forcefully against the squad, against extreme lefty ideas, and do it soon, then the Dems lose. The Squad has fast become the face of the Democratic Party. They are worse than Trump!...and that is pretty hard to do.
6
Racism, xenophobia and bigotry are at the core of both the Trump campaign and the GOP. The voters can perhaps plausibly be excused for electing Trump once on the basis that they did not realize how much damage he would do to America, both at home and beyond our borders.
If the electorate does not reject Trump, the Republican party, and their core nationalist and nativist message in 2020, the American experiment will probably have to be declared a failure. If, after 150 years, the idea of multiracial democracy is rejected in successive presidential elections in the United States, it will likely not succeed anywhere.
Racism must not win! Throw Trump and the GOP back on the trash heap where they belong.
4
My favorite is the guy on the boat, who "paid off my student loans." Thank you sir, you are an incredible patriot!
5
@David
Yeah back when the gov't subsidized public higher education - but you know... socialism.
Hurry up and pull the ladder up behind you Mr. fiscal responsibility.
3
My Brooklyn-born father used to say, "people from New York are New Yorkers; people from Michigan are mashuganas." Now that I live in Michigan, I know it's not true of everyone, but after reading the article, I'm afraid it might be more common that I thought.
9
These same folks should be clamoring to send Melania back to her homeland, along with her parents - all of whom emigrated here under dubious circumstances at best - getting away from Trump might be a blessing for her...
But this is all a bunch of baloney to keep us from locking in on real issues, like - how come the DOD hasn't passed an audit in over 20 years (where is our $$$ going - we could use it for a PILE of other things), and how we can shore up social security, fix our infrastucture, become energy independent, etc.
In short, can you please stop covering the fear-mongering tripe that comes out of Trump's mouth every time it moves and start covering people and groups with ideas on how to move this country forward to address the aforementioned issues in a positive non-hate and non- fear mongering manner.
Trump and his party have NO interest in dealing with these very real issues because it might cost them a pittance of their wealth.
13
I'd like to tell Mr. Trump to go back where he came from.
But that would require a time machine.
9
@MidtownATL
Good one!
2
Im not sure Germany would take him.
Terrible what comes from years of drinking water with high lead content. Wonder how their healthcare insurance is working out for them?
6
So this was 21st Century version of the Port Huron Statement?
4
Being from the Bible Belt of Michigan I can readily believe Trump will win in this area. The fact he's a fascist seems to escape most white people in this area. Tell the truth they seem to be use to folks, ministers, bosses etc. telling them what to think and seem to like it that way. Not everyone of course. The City of Holland with a fairly well educated population and a fair number of minority voters did not vote for Trump but the surrounding area sure did. If the economy slides that might shift a bit but he'll just blame it on some one else and the sheep will believe him. The fact these ladies aren't white is perfect as far as Trump is concerned.
That they have a lot less power than the radical Tea Party folks is immaterial.
5
Sometimes I think Trump is grooming the American people for Putin. The people in Michigan are already there.
5
If these people aren't actually defeated they will soon be actuarially defeated.
3
As an Asian American who have lived on both coasts and the Mid-West, I would venture to suggest a middle path.
I take it as a given that I would have to allocate more time and energy to establish connections or rapports with those I interact with professionally and socially and still may not achieve the same level of success. As the Avis advertisement used to say: " We Try Harder!"
Instead of labeling Trump voters as racists or to dismiss those who are not convinced of the correctness of their positions as White privilege. the Progressives and the "insurgents" should acknowledge they also must devote more time and energy to establish common grounds with current and future Trump supporter. No one likes to work with some one who call them racists or look down on them. So keep your head down, and learn from your colleagues. The way Hillary Clinton behave as a Junior Senator from NY is a good example to follow.
2