I’m fine with drama. What I am not fine with is obtuse literal-mindedness, so the author of this piece would be a very easy “swipe left.”
53
Consider this; for 12 million years Humans have met one another, coupled, reared children and had inlaws, etc. They never had "dating apps". Ever. Try a time-tested form of dating and mating. Meet people straight up.
Maybe you should shut off your security blanket (CellPhone) and go be the truly social animal you are.
Never trust a photograph to evaluate a human.
26
You seem pretty drama-free to me. You take life's punches and roll with the flow.
I'd be willing to bet that the lady who claims wanting a drama-free life is sexist, however, lives a life deep in drama.
16
In the words of Doomtree's P.O.S:
"Only dramatic people utter 'no drama'"
It is, generally, intended to indicate people who have *endless* drama, make mountains out of molehills and so on. People who make *everything* dramatic.
I've seen it on quite a few heterosexual women's profiles over the years as well, myself, but my sample size is what I've looked at, and I haven't really bothered perusing heterosexual men's profiles.
The caveat to all of this being, of course: what someone considers "drama" is impossible to discern from any variant on "no drama" or "low drama". I sometimes see it preceded by "I just left a relationship with..." and some details that are presumably indicators of what that definition is, but it's still difficult to identify.
And I'd note that I think Stef's line is likely true: those that call this out are likely to be pot-stirrers themselves, wondering why they keep running into drama and never looking in the mirror.
9
No drama = adult, mature.
Drama = arrested development, sociopath.
19
I am finding a disturbing trend of 55 plus year olds still married men going online and finding women (unsuspecting of the dramas they bring and will bring) to entangle for their very sexual talk and love professing when they have no intention of leaving the wifey but are satisfying their “cheating” urges with inflicting “emotional” abuse on their family and the women that put up with it.
14
How much simpler could this be? No drama means the desire to have sex or intimacy without strings. Is this possible? I have no idea. Human beings I’m guessing have simple needs. When hungry, they eat. When horney (unfortunately, the simplest way to describe this need) they seek union (and obviously, the most prosaic way to describe what they are looking for). Prostitution is the oldest occupation for good reason. Casual intimacy, made possible by birth control, is taken for granted by probably too many people. That doesn’t change the fact that people seek the ready fulfillment of what they are looking for.
7
I dated a man for three years who emphasized that he expected "Peace--no conflict or problems, ever". It was his way or the highway. He was immature and didn't see women as people. He let slip that his perfect partner would be someone who endlessly flattered him. Over time I realized that he was emotionally shallow--being with him was like dating a sixth grader. This man was a dentist and owned extensive rental properties in a major city so I wrongly assumed he was stable. But I gradually discovered that he lied, manipulated and pretended to have ethics when he didn't. Two months after I broke up with him I discovered that he'd been dating someone who constantly flattered him and whom he later married. My mother has narcissistic personality disorder so I've seen it up close and read a lot about it. This nightmare of a man probably had the same thing. The "no drama" requirement is a red flag for me.
19
I have to laugh. Laura Hilgers writes the following, referring to certain men:
'Are they looking for a woman who never gets angry or afraid or sad, who never worries about her family or struggles in her job? Who would want to be with such a person?'
I'm fully aware no such human being exists, Ms Hilgers. But to not even think about a human ideal of perfection? I wouldn't complain if such a woman came into my life.
5
In my experience, "no drama" (online or otherwise) means "I want free access to sex without emotional entanglement." Of course men want this more than women; isn't that what they're hardwired for?
16
They want, fun, happiness, sex, and companionship. They are not interested in providing the companion with anything other than that in return. A fair weather friend as they say. If the going gets tough, look elsewhere. Is it right or wrong.....not sure. Is that the kind of “relationship” many people want, probably not. You get what you give. Buyer beware.
15
What a weird column this is. Since when did being sad, upset or disappointed count as drama. This author has a very different definition of that word than I do, that's for sure.
Someone that brings drama to a relationship brings a constant chaos: a crazy ex, a very angry babymother or father, a family that screeches and fights with each other, and all kinds of over the top stuff like that.
Regular emotional responses to events in life are NOT drama.
I consider myself drama free and would expect the same from a potential mate. If they have any of the above, then we're not a match.
25
Ms. Hilgers is missing the point of "no drama" and most of the men reading this know it.No drama means we don't add our own neurotic baggage to the problems already existing in life. Too many "modern" women, who live life @ 100 mph, can't slow down. So, many men feel they are #17 on the things to do list, and women seem unable to enjoy just being with someone. Ms. Hilgers, as the wise man on the mountain said.."meditate some more.."
14
A perceptive column. Perhaps many - maybe most - of the folks looking for "drama free" really mean "no 24/7 drama, please."
5
The number of defensive and vitriolic comments from men towards the author tells me this article has definitely hit one of the very delicate males nerves!. "Mom, women are being mean"
26
No drama, no head games! 45 year old professional but insecure man seeks the improbable 27 year old surfer babe to cook and clean and throw great dinner parties.
13
In my experience, the "drama" here refers to some people's tendency to blow things out of proportion, fight over nothing, and be petty and negative for no reason than that it's entertaining for that person.
However, also in my experience, the men & women who say they "don't want any drama" are the same people who ARE petty, negative, & etc.
13
Hmmm, I found this curious thing happening on dating websites. I wonder what men mean by this. I think I'll write an article about it.
Well, should I check in with the men themselves to see what they mean? Of course not! I'll ask the co-founder of the feminist website Feministing. She's MUCH more likely to tell me what I want to hear.
32
No drama in this context likely means that feeling and reason are in some type of mature balance. Not that one has no feelings or emotions.
There often is wisdom in both feelings and reason, but often when one dominates...life is out of balance. And we may do crazy things.
When emotional thinking dominates one may consistently overreact to or greatly exaggerate the importance or implications of common, largely harmless events. And make unreasonable if not insane demands.
Everyone has feelings, most men have them and enjoy them, and respect that their partners do too, of course.
Most of us want to be understanding and supportive to the degree we reasonably can be.
A few may not, but I think most do, whether a man or a woman.
Those who don't share to a reasonable degree your values and priorities may not be right or wrong, but the two of you are likely not right for each other. That's life too.
12
The inference that "no drama" means "don't talk to me about your problems" seems an awfully big leap to me. I think of it more as: "don't try to manipulate, test, deceive, or hurt me, and don't swipe right on me if that's what you're looking for".
It strikes me as odd that so many men feel compelled to include that in their dating profiles, but the sentiment itself seems hardly unreasonable, and this essay does nothing to defend the inference discussed above.
27
It seems like a lot of stuff based on nothing: we don't know what's meant by "no drama" unless we ask the person who says this. It doesn't have to be lack of empathy. For example, I have been told by many that I am the most empathetic person, but I hate "drama" brought by people constantly ask for attention, positive or negative, at home or at work.
9
The more I think about it, the more irritated I am with this story. The author seems to feel that unburdening herself to a significant other is a crucial part of what makes a healthy relationship. While I agree to a point, who wants to be with someone that kvetches all the time?
You may have had a bad day. Fine. I also may have had a bad day. There is such a thing has human courtesy in the feeling you are sparing someone else from having to listen to your problems all the time. I suspect that it what many men, including myself, mean when we talk about a ‘drama-free’ relationship.
14
@Very Confused
I’d like to also point out that many referred to Barack Obama as a ‘no drama’ President.
I’m guessing that more than a few people would welcome back that absence of drama with open arms.
I would say most people in the dating scene want to present themselves as attractive as they can be to whom they’re dating. Does the author agree? If she does, yet still insists on acting as how she coming across, I foresee a lot of lonely evenings at home.
7
@Very Confused
I’d like to also point out that many referred to Barack Obama as a ‘no drama’ President.
I’m guessing that more than a few people would welcome back that absence of drama with open arms.
1
From the point of view of a 71 year old woman, when a man write that he wants no drama, I figure he hasn't really lived. I'll add that many men, in my age range, are looking for women 10 to 15 years younger than me. One profile I reviewed began, at the very top, in capital letters, if you're not within my chosen age range don't contact me. The exploration of this type of "restriction", I think, could make an interesting article!
10
If I wanted to know what a group of women meant when they were using a particular phrase I would probably go ask ... some women, I would particularly ask some women actually using the phrase. Instead this author went and asked two women, one of whom was a sociologist with experience in online dating, the other one's guess was probably no more likely to be right than mine or any random person on the street's.
If any author wanted to know what women thought about something they were doing that author would be rightly castigated for only using men's opinions to explain those women. The same should apply here.
18
Seems like a lot of drama.
Perhaps "Seeking Less Drama" or "Seeking equal Drama" might be more appropriate.
A partner that can't go to the grocery store without being offended by the traffic, the cars in the parking lot, the line at the checkout register, the persons in the checkout line, the quality of the produce, the pesticides, and the plastic packaging, then relating these sins in detail and expecting riveted attention to the tale is overwhelming. Being the loving reviewer day after day for a cast of one performing the minutia of life can be be emotionally draining. Being given only bit parts played to an empty theater seems to be my permanent casting call. My dramatic performances have less than stellar because of minimal rehearsal time, since there was someone insecure on stage desiring my approval. No matter what else happened, I've done my best to sigh, laugh, cry, and clap at the appropriate times. I showed up and stayed to the end, even when I was the only one left in the audience.
12
Seems to me that when someone writes this, they've either recently been burned in a relationship and they're not ready for a new one yet, or they're scared of emotion in general.
In either case, I'd proceed with caution.
12
"No drama" is one of those phrases that means different things to different people. The author is putting a spin on it that is not the common understanding of it. For most of us, "no drama" does not mean the absence of life's vicissitudes and ups-and-downs. What the phrase does mean is the ability to deal with those ups-and-downs without meltdowns. Moreover, a drama queen is as obnoxious to other women as it is to men, if not more so.
31
Those wanting No Drama should move to Denmark or Finland where I believe the statistics show the happiest, probably drama free, people live.
3
Huh. I'd just interpret "no drama" to mean "no relationship"--i.e., just booty calls and the occasional fun outing. Seems like a reasonable way of defining what a person (of either gender) is looking for, although it seems to often happen that when these people do meet someone they really like, those parameters change.
6
@truth
Interesting point - hadn't thought of that interpretation. But I don't think your final statement does anything to invalidate the position, either. I think it's a fairly polite way of placing yourself along the "looking for a relationship / not looking for a relationship" binary. Some people want a relationship itself - they want the abstract thing, regardless of whether or not there's a specific person they presently want to be in a relationship with. Others (I count myself among these) have little to no interest in the abstract idea of a relationship, but, should we fall in love with somebody, would more often than not want a relationship with that person.
Another problem with the demand for "no drama" is it isn't helpful -- it means something different to literally everyone. Almost every commenter here has offered a different definition. Boys, just say what you want and what you don't want -- be specific (girls, you do the same). For Pete's sake, if you can't state your needs and wants behind the relative anonymity of an online dating app, how are you ever going to express yourself after the screens have fallen away and you are face to face with an actual human?
8
This is a nice op-ed. Having not been in a long-term relationship, I would relish the chance for any type of drama as long as there were love, supposing it weren't too histrionic. I too think vulnerability enhances intimacy.
10
@ David This is a nice and thoughtful comment. Wishing you a loving long-term relationship when you decide to enter one.
7
I (and most people I bet) read the article as some sort of absolute - a huge difference between men and women. BUT....per the article, 10% more men than women are likely to use the term “no drama”. That is nearly no difference. 1000 women will write it...and 1100 men will write it. That’s 10% more men than women! Still almost 50/50. The article is pointless. Case closed.
19
Yawn. More male-bashing. 'Men' are irresponsible, immature, self-centered.
Sure, some guys may be saying 'no drama' because they want it easy. No strings, etc.
But let's face it, there are women out there who can be a bit much...making mountains out of molehills. So some guys are probably getting at that. They are probably making this comment based on past experiences with women.
You know, sorta like the comments you are making based on your own past experiences. And it obviously wasn't hard for you to find other women to more or less agree with you. Co-founder of 'Feministing'? Um ok. And a sociologist who 'specializes' in online dating? Apparently she's not yet heard that how folks represent themselves and communicate in an online dating site is very different from the real world?
24
“A ‘No Drama’ Relationship”: Online, that’s what men say they want from women. Do they know nothing about life?”
What a disgustingly sexist subtitle, generalizing as it does about all men and suggesting that men in general “know nothing about life.” I was tempted to stop reading then and there. But then my eye fell on the first sentence: “I was recently on the dating app Bumble.” What? She’s accusing men of knowing nothing about life yet she has to troll for dates on dating apps?
Of course, as we plough through the article, we discover that the subtitle was, at best, click-bait. Having stereotyped men there, the author, when she begins to dabble in statistics, has to admit that according to research that she came across it’s not all men after all but, oh, about “10 percent over all.” Ten percent? And this is supposed to be somehow characteristic of men in general, somehow peculiarly and deficiently male? Meanwhile, out the other side of their mouths, feminists accuse men of being the cause of pretty much all the conflict in the world at the same time that men are supposed to be deficient for wanting to avoid conflict in the form of "drama."
For my part, I say hooray for anyone, no matter the gender, who prefers harmony to conflict. Why not at least dream the dream? If we do, who knows, maybe we will have less conflict and thus less drama and thus more peace and more joy.
19
I had to check twice. Yes, this actually was the New York Times I was reading. Running out of things to write about? And by the way, the writer should check out female profiles on internet dating sites. The words ‘no drama’ appear frequently. Journalism isn’t what it used to be.
19
Thank you for swiping left.
6
When a man says he doesn't want drama he is saying he wants an adult who isn't going to make drama out of trivial things.
If you think that is too subjective you are already too much drama and too immature to be surfing a dating app.
13
@magicisnotreal
Most men were raised to be self-absorbed little princes.
To the casual observer, my Greatest Generation dad was a very decent man, enjoyed making money and was respected for it. But he was not a very good husband and father.
He'd loved being an independent bachelor, caring only about his own wants and needs. i.e. He was a typical American male of his times.
He didn't change after marrying later in life, didn't think he had to, preferring to dismiss the needs and wants of his wife and every female in his life. Needless to say, it was not a happy marriage or household. He blamed that on his wife, of course, for wanting too much - like that he should actually spend time with his children and the home he neglected so badly that they were ashamed to bring friends to visit.
Anything a female said or did, stranger or a relative, was derided and dripping with male contempt. Wives and daughters of male associates were fair game, not just his own wife and daughter. HIs mother and sisters had coddled the little prince his entire life, so he felt entitled to ridicule as "overly emotional" and begrudged any female who wouldn't submit to being dirt under his royal feet.
Again, a typical self-absorbed man of that era. But times change. He's gone, but his utter selfishness lives inside his now adult very misogynist (and forever single) mini-me son. Because it was a woman's job to raise his son, who rightly the world now considers to be dickish and no longer rewards.
9
Putting "ridiculous" in the title of the article, the author begs that her opinion not be taken seriously. She misses the intent of "no drama" entirely. But then, after all, this is only a ridiculous opinion piece.
14
When men say 'no drama,' they don't mean no emotion. They mean they are tired of manipulative people who manufacture drama for the sake of drama. What did you think they meant?
14
Thank you! Add drama to the phrase “.....for richer or poor, in sickness and in health.....”.
3
You must not realize those are the dramatic parts of the marriage.
2
You are so right--I could swear about 90 percent of men put this in their profiles, and it's a red flag every time. I figure at worst they basically hate women and consider all of us "drama queens" because we have emotions; at second worst they want the kind of "easy" relationship that requires zero listening, zero empathy, zero effort; at third worst they are cliche-loving bores. Actually all of those things are the worst.
13
@minkybear
While I disagree with the entire premise of the essay and the author's interpretation of "no drama," I actually agree with you about its being a red flag. But from my perspective, it's its inclusion in the profile that alarms me, far more than the underlying sentiment.
When I think about what drama means, I don't think - at all, about somebody who occasionally needs to vent about a problem at work, or an issue with a friend. I think about jealousy and manipulation, escalating arguments through derisive ad hominem non sequiturs, cruelty. Things I - along with just about everyone - don't want in a relationship.
But it's bizarre that so many men (and women) feel a need to include it in their profiles. It would seem a bit odd for a woman to include "must not be physically abusive" in her profile; it should go without saying, after all.
That's why I wonder if it really is just a more polite/coded way of saying "Just looking for hookups". But being coy about that also seems to be a red flag. Always best to be upfront about your intentions.
8
Just goes to show ya, there IS a growing market for robot intimate companions.
10
People who think that drama is good and normal are psychologically sick and twisted and want to inflict their own pathologies on others. No it's not good, it's not normal. Keep swiping left.
6
The people who don't get what the author is saying regarding 'drama' are either married or not on dating apps or sites. Normal people on dating sites (rare), and in life, don't specifically state that they want 'no drama.' They say who they are and what they're about, and who they hope to meet. They don't make vague, negative demands, and never use the word 'drama.' This is a marker for someone who creates drama; usually it's a stonewaller, addict of some sort (ie, porn, alcohol, shopping, etc.), passive aggressive, has anger issues, etc. In other words, these people are provocateurs who literally live and breathe drama. They're projecting. It would be like you or I saying 'no thieves.' Only a thief would make such a bizarre statement. Go on a dating site and see for yourself. In my experience, about 100 percent of the people who use the word 'drama' in a profile appear incredibly high in narcissism and low in emotional intelligence based on the rest of the profile. Take a look. And if you're married, do everything you can to work on your marriage so you don't end up in the cesspool that online dating has become.
9
Could there be a tinge of racism in these requirements? No ________ need apply?
3
Every dude in the world who has ever dated after high school knows what 'no drama' means.
It means 'no drama queens'.
11
@SteveRR
Every female knows many, many emotionally clueless closed down drama kings.
That pent up emotion is the taproot of the soldier, he-man warrior culture and criminal, it is the core of misogyny and a deep self-hatred by men so cold that they become sociopathic rapists, batterers and even killers.
4
I've been looking for a whiny woman for some time. And I think I finally found her!
20
@Yo You made my day...hilarious !!!
7
We get it. You're into drama, have had your fair shar of it, and will tolerate no statements indicating a wish for a relationship without it. Fine.
'...men over all were 10 percent more likely to say this than women...' Not much of a difference, all things considered.
7
"No drama" to.man means no whining, no moaning and keep those emotions for your girlfriends. At least when it is stated as a desirable quality on these dating websites, the man is being clear. If one is not able to provide that qualification, then you are right to swipe left. He may never find that person, but at least there is clarity in his message.
4
@Mike Even "whining" and "moaning" are subjective.
A woman (or man) might simply be unloading about an awful day at work or challenges with her children. Is it to much to ask that your romantic partner listen? Can your date never complain about anything, lest she/he be accused of whining/moaning/being dramatic? It's literally a no-win situation unless the person demanding "no drama" is explicit about what constitutes drama. Also, whining, moaning and drama are not the exclusive domain of women.
3
Just look to Japan for the future of US. The stress of work and expectation of masculinity resulted in men who go herbalval (men who do not pursue women, nor marriage nor sex) and created a bunch of OTAKU who seek sexual fantasy fulfilled by real or virtual idol. Through monetary transaction, they can achieve a quasi romantic relationship with their ideal woman who only agree with them and worship them. That's a lot of men want.
8
@Mary Whew ! And no drama :-)
3
Well, if by drama you mean drug addiction, alcoholism, suicidal tendencies, overeating, a Kafkaesque view of the world -
sign me up!
7
The irony is that the complete opposite of "no drama" is getting so worked up and insulted by it that you write a NYTimes editorial. Methinks its best for both you and the men you see on dating apps if you continue to self-select with left swipes on the "no-drama" requests.
10
I think they mean they want sex without it meaning commitment.
12
Ms. Hilgers is onto something here. Asking to avoid conflist means you’ll probably find it.
4
This is sexist drivel. Men know there are emotions, ups & downs, good & bad, give & take, etc. in any relationship. These are necessary, & generally good.
Drama is neither necessary not generally good.
I suspect that the author's perspective reflects a hisogynistic prejudice.
13
Oh my gosh, what lazy journalism. Rather than interviewing a representative sampling of the individuals who express a desire for "no drama" to find out what they mean and what they want, the author merely makes assumption after assumption as to what the phrase might mean to those who use it and then, of course, condemns them unheard for their imagined feelings.
16
Online dating by its very definition is Drama.
10
Ms. Hilgers doesn't seem to get it - or maybe she really does and is just pretending in order to create drama and get paid for it.
12
@CA Bingo !!
3
This is what it means...
> Don't trash-talk at him, when he's in the room
> Don't trash-talk about him, when he's out of the room
If you stop and think about why you do this or where you learned to do this - it'll make it obvious how to stop...
For clarity, you're entitled to in-kind loyalty...
Don’t settle for less…
6
Man: I'm not looking for drama
Woman: (writes entire article on New York times about how that requirement unrealistic and sexist)
*That's* drama.
19
Ive heard guys say that they dont want to date a girl who has issues. And Im thinking...what is so great about these brainless immature guys, and what makes them think that there are girls or even men with no issues? Its one sidedly wrong, hypocritical what they expect from women, I abhor such guys, and I hope such guys never find a girl!
4
Men, if you marry a first or second cousin, you will have no drama.
1
Seems like this kind of went off the rails with the comparison to Romeo & Juliet, Brokeback Mountain, and Casablanca. Yes, those dramas might be entertaining or meaningful because of their drama. But, if I asked for a no drama relationship, those dramas would be precisely what I would be asking to avoid. Who wants to have their families feud, be punished by society, or be morally needed to leave the man you love for the good of the world? Those who seek that kind of drama don't make for good relationships.
7
The amount of self-defensive comments written by users who, perhaps unfairly, I'm assuming are men is telling. Why attempt to genuinely engage or look inward when you could just tell this writer that she's dramatic and wrong?
4
@IsabelJ
She wrote a piece that includes no research, no real insight, is filled with assumptions and biases, and makes no attempt at all to seek the truth from men about what they have on their minds when they refer to "drama".
My question is: Why wouldn't YOU have a problem with that?
12
You got that totally wrong. Drama is not life's curve balls. Drama is making something up out of the blue for no other reason than seeking attention. If you need attention, please say so, but understand that attention must be divided and over time on average you can only have your fair share. A mature person will understand.
15
Or maybe "no drama" simply means you don't want to feel like you're walking on eggshells all the time, worried that any offhand comment you make might get written up in the NY Times.
14
I tried to wade through this column. Couldn't make it past the fold. Too much drama.
8
I like drama.
6
"No Drama" --
aka
No responsibilities - No commitments - no 'baggage' - no complaining - no disagreeable opinions - no arguments --
Many people have this-media-driven fantasy of what a "No Drama" relationship is like -- you know -- those hipster couples who glide along while exchanging swift, humorous and seemingly-intellectual banter --
She's thin - wearing a tank-top, flirty skirt and sandals - with flowing hair --
He's rugged and masculine - but also tender and approachable - - with a two-day stubble - wearing shorts and a polo shirt (possibly showing sweat stains) - wearing shoes with no socks and - of course - a baseball cap worn backwards --
And - as far as dating apps and websites are concerned --
It's been shown that only in New York City do the people who place dating ads list all of the requirements they're looking for in the other person -- as opposed to telling about themselves and what might make them a good dating prospect --
In January, 2002, I was at a busy bus/subway stop in New York City - waiting for a male colleague to pick me up in his car on the way to a rehearsal --
By chance - I happened to get into a little conversation with a nice young woman standing nearby - who was waiting for her bus --
We had a friendly chat - and after about twenty minutes my friend arrived - and I jumped into his car and drove off to my rehearsal --
That woman and I were married in September of 2005 -
Lots of drama -- but way - way - way more love...
5
Call me different, but all I want is a sex doll programmed with the personality of a cat.
7
And your preference is more achievable than finding a “drama-free” person.
4
Let me see if I can help clear this up:
It's you, the problem is you.
12
For those of a certain age, this sounds remarkably like Erika Jong’s (sanitized) “Zipless xxxx” as described in her book “Fear of Flying” from the mid-1970s.
What goes around comes around; only now we have dating apps to facilitate the process.
And, yes, many men still want “simply” a physical relationship, with none of that other stuff.
10
All are looking for “No drama Mama,” our fantasy cookie-baking leave it to Beaver mothers...from the way it never was.
7
The article almost comes over like it would be a good idea to write on a dating app "... fine with drama."
4
A guy speaking her--not a girl. (Woman, I mean.) I'm Norm, not Susan.
I honestly don't take the word "drama" to mean what you say it means, Ms. Hilger.
A relationship without pain? A relationship unclouded by sickness--or unemployment--or a beloved dog dying unexpectedly--or a child in the grip of some deadly addiction--or the state of the nation--or. .. or. . .or. . .
NO. Of course not. Even we GUYS--obtuse and insensitive as we can be--wouldn't dream of that.
Well then--what DOES it mean?
I think it means--"UNNECESSARY drama." When we guys (obtuse and insensitive as we are) begin to think: the woman here is rocking the boat just to rock the boat.
Because she's taken it into her head to be unhappy about something. Because she's a little too--might as well just say it, no?--she's a little TOO sensitive. Or she CHOSE to misunderstand something I said. OR--something I DIDN'T SAY. Or this. Or that.
And believe me, Ms. Hilger--I have talked to a young woman (years back) who told me in all frankness--"I made my husband's life HELL for those first few years."
I can think of--ahem, please forgive me here!--MOTHERS who made their husbands' life--
--how to say this?--DIFFICULT. They "rocked the boat." With a vengeance. They enjoyed the "drama." Dear me, yes.
Sorrows--aches--pains! These come to every human being under the sun.
Some guys are just asking--"Please--for God's sake!--don't gratuitously ADD to them.
"Who needs THAT?"
7
Why don't men just get blow-up dolls and stop bothering with real, human women altogether? These selfish men are takers and want one-way relationships with the woman giving and the man taking. Nothing new here, it's just called something different each generation. In the Boomer dating age, men wanted "independent" women--but not too independent. Independent enough not to need money from a man but also dependent on him emotionally and massage his ego.
9
So at no point the author thinks that asking a man what he really means crossed her thoughts... instead she ask a feminist point of view (no bias for sure ...).
Very bad article...
11
I think the author creates drama. She swiped left, everything worked out.
8
A dubyadubyadubyadot world where a swipe left deletes all disturbance.
Maybe a new form of divorce, ‘No, didn’t work out, I had to swipe left.’
Or a New Age Hitman, ‘I’m the guy they hire to swipe left.’
3
Men write "Please be drama-free" on their profiles for the same reason women write, "No liars, cheats, or players."
Because everyone else writes it.
9
I think the issue hear is one of language and communication.
I think what people mean by “drama free” is they want a well adjusted person who is not acting out in life as if on a perpetual audition for a spot on the “real housewives “.
I’m pretty sure no one expects people not to have bad days.
10
This article felt really lame. searching for new articles to navigate. A widow in my my 50's I I truly have no drama since my dog died.
4
Want to keep emotionally intelligent people away? Put “no drama” in your dating profile.
10
Speaking as an older woman with decades of experience and observation to draw from, I agree wholeheartedly with Elizabeth Moore. She has written an accurate reflection of many, many men, perhaps even the majority. Some of the replies here make it clear that seeing themselves reflected in the truth-telling reality of this journalist's mirror is so unpalatable that these men can only deny it. These guys are charter members of the KKK clan. Not the Ku Klux Klan, the Kinder Kuchen Kirchen group.
8
if a man said "do they know nothing about life?" referring to women, what would your reaction be?
9
I suggest to the NYT it begin to count the number of articles it publishes by women belittling men in some way or another, and the number of articles it publishes by men belittling women in some way or another, and publish it like a score before every such article.
6
The columnist lost me with the subtitle, "Do they know nothing about life?" and then in the first sentence, "I came across the profile of an attractive middle-aged man. . . and swiped left to indicate my lack of interest."
From this inflammatory (aka dramatic and egocentric) opening, the article goes on to admonish men and dismiss their claims. The piece assumes the moral high ground with an unremitting arrogance, condescension and conceit. Later, the article has the temerity to claim that the desire for "no drama" relationships is a sexist trope in which cultural misogyny underlies its currency - “Me thinks the lady doth protest too much.”
Another NY Times feminist rant which blames men and fails to appeal for any modicum of personal responsibility and accountability for women. She will most likely continue to despair the lack of quality men. For the life of God, NYT please, please give us something of greater depth, compassion and thought when addressing intersexual relations and concerns.
10
only men? are you sure about that? online, women have co-opted the phrase "emotional labor" to talk about having to deal with their partners feelings, traumas, problems. They scour listings of dating sites to remove anyone they feel like would be too much drama, red flags are multiple, not having a bedframe, for example, is a terrifying portent. the mentally ill are shunned and undatable (unless they're over six feet tall with all their hair). its really amazing how much women of my generation will continually blame everything on men when its really the mass media creating expectations that life is about being happy every single second of the day and isolating and removing people from your life that jeopardize this. if you'd like to pretend this isn't the kind of media that women have been consuming for 15 to 20 years oprah has a whole psuedo-spiritual psuedo-scientific industry that says otherwise
4
Wish the author had interviewed the men who wrote this in their profiles to understand what they meant. Weird she did not.
11
I suspect dating the co-founder of the feminist website Feministing
5
Yes, yes, men are awful. Especially hetero men. Thanks for reminding me NYT op-ed section.
12
Flippant, alternative titles for this column:
"Single Buddhist woman disappointed by shallow dating profiles"
"Meditating NY Times columnist sees decay of American romance in man’s 20-word online dating profile"
"Middle-aged dating might be better with invading Nazis as emotional backdrop"
I'm sympathetic to women frustrated by emotionally unavailable men. I'm working hard to be more vulnerable every day and often fail. But Hilgers goes a bit too far suggesting these romantic bios signal a patriarchal attempt to control the emotional state of women. Aren’t profiles the place for such selfish dreaming? Should we shame people for profiles that are upfront about their desire for an easy, uncomplicated connection?
Hilgers initially takes interest in "what these men mean" but then quickly swipes left. Clearly they can't speak for themselves. Instead, she pathologizes them, consulting Buddhist psychiatrists and feminist writers. No surprise they confirm that men are unenlightened and emotionally inept. I'm not sure we are shedding light on Bumbling men by consulting Buddhist psychologists and feminist writers.
These men are using the best language they have to state what they want in courtship. They want to avoid some pain they associate with "drama." Can we hear what they are saying rather than use them as evidence of cultural decay?
10
It just means these folks want a non-emotional sexual contact. They should just get prostitutes and get it over with. They can get "girl friend experiences" for some cash and leave normal people alone.
10
What a dramatic article. Methinks the lady doth protest too much....and understands too little.
9
@Anonymous: Maybe there's a reason she ended up divorced. It's hard not to be amused by people with messy lives who intentionally choose to advise the rest of us on matters of life.
It reminds me of a friend, twice divorced and perpetually underemployed, who is trying to start his own self-help business. Sheesh!
3
Good God, if I were dating and a woman said that to me I would recoil, stare at her as though she had grown a second head, and flee howling from the premises forever.
6
Much confusion is created in feminism via the problems simply inherent in *being a biological female.
Biology, not "the hierarchy", makes women of the Species feel insecure about themselves.
Remove all men, and women will still feel insecure about themselves. DNA demands this as part of ensuring the survival of the species.
The Prime Directive for Mother Nature is to produce the maximum number of offspring in any species. Mother Nature will NEVER leave something as critical as this to the *minds of the *members OF those species.
Mother Nature therefore makes men think they are BETTER than they really are, and Nature ensures (via DNA) that females
be born thinking they are LESS than they really are.
No matter how *gorgeous a female IS, she will, due to her biological DNA, *ALWAYS find something about herself to feel "less than" about.
Males will ALWAYS look in the mirror and think that they may not BE "Adonis Incarnate", but, by gawd, they are only about *two sit-ups *AWAY from being "Adonis Incarnate".
Men will *never be shamed or legislated *OUT of feeling this way, bcuz as INACCURATE as it IS, Nature INSISTS (via DNA) that men feel this way to MAXIMIZE the number of offspring. In the male it ensures that he will NOT be too shy to *ask to mate.
This is also why women always have, and always *will, see themselves as being "less than". This is Nature's way to minimize the chance that they will *REFUSE to mate.
You can't shame, yell at, or legislate DNA.
4
And the winner for the "Most Mysogynistic Comment" goes to...Dude, look at the mirror. The reason why women do not like you will be staring right back at you.
3
I've heard a number of men complain when their girlfriends go "psycho" after learning that they had been cheated upon for periods of time while in a relationship with this person. (One man decided to sleep with his girlfriend's roommate.)
Usually people who write things like this in their profiles are the ones who create the drama and expect everyone just to tolerate it.
Swipe left every time!
10
When will The New York Times stop being such a gender baiting rag? This is highly insulting to men, 10%? really? That's SUCH a statistically relevant difference. Why are we singling out men? And who cares what feminists think anyway? That's just another word for someone with a gender inferiority/superiority complex who's mostly justifying their confirmation bias by making emotionally triggering biased statements to other women.
It's valid to mention that people who want to be drama free may be unreliable partners, but you just don't know until you talk to them and get into the nuances.
Personally, I have a 30 year old female relative whose profile on tinder i ran into and read who I really couldn't help but smirk at when I noticed she wanted to be drama-free because I happened to feel that she had enough issues to cause serious drama in someone's life that I wouldn't wish on anybody (no job, incomplete education, single mother, mental issues, spoiled brat living off of single parent). But that list of judgement i just passed on her may be the exact thing that someone out there in the world ends up wanting, if they'd only just give her a chance instead of swiping left....
8
Thanks. I just wrote essentially the same thing. Only 10%...pointless article...the article's main theme is unsound. If it had just discussed the idea of "drama free" NOT in the context of men/women it would have made more sense.
2
Men and women probably want the same things only woman take twice the number of words to describe them creating more drama LOL
3
‘No drama’ is manspeak for no neurotics who thrive on creating drama for drama’s sake.
11
"No drama" works both ways. Ladies: go out, have your fun and then send him home.
1
No drama means someone without a bunch of crazy exes still in her life, a bunch of baby daddies, mental disorders etc. It can be hard to find a single, middle aged woman without this stuff. However, as someone else pointed out, a lot of times if a person is wanting someone with “no drama” it could easily mean that have a lot of drama going on themselves. Also, okcupid said men are only 10% more likely to say they want “no drama” than women. Is that really a big enough difference to ask feministing to come up with the worst possible explanation?
7
Sadly, I think many men would be very happy with a robot wife.
8
Just so you know, the men put that there so you will skip over them.
6
So men say something a woman dislikes. To find out what it means, she talks to another woman. And the result is "It is Sexist.". Then she talks a lot about herself and denounces the men she never even tried to ask what they actually mean. That is journalism nowadays? I don't even...
Just go to the Urban Dictionary, look up drama, and you have your definition. But you apparently live in a different world than men do.
10
I think Ms. Hilgers defines drama too broadly and amorphously.
I've been married for almost thirty years to a no-drama woman. She's had plenty of challenges during that time, but faced each one headlong and thoughtfully. She's cried at times, gotten angry on occasion, and once or twice even yelled at someone over the phone.
Our relationship, like most, is not perfect. We've had to work at it, we've talked through disagreements and conflicts and unmet needs. But these never degenerated into yelling or storming out of the house, or even sleeping in separate rooms. We just worked and talked and compromised and solved.
I have no patience for high-drama people. To me, drama is a means to avoid the hard work of maintaining close relationships. Drama distracts and demands, but seldom compromises or resolves.
I'd have no problem whatsoever stating in a dating profile that dramatic women need not inquire.
9
Drama free means no violent rages, no name calling, no labeling, no gaslighting! Discussing differences in opinions respectfully while holding hands with each other. Giving each other space to grow and accepting that every day or moment will not be under your control. The ability to move from a state of denial to acceptance in a painless way for people around you. Where people want to comfort you and not run far away as you rant about how bad people are or the world is. Any man or woman that has lived with a controlling spouse or partner and has had the good fortune to move on, yearns for “drama free”. Absolutely nothing wrong with that!
140
@PTSD Man, yes. ‘No drama’ to me is the declaration of a wish to avoid an ongoing ‘walking on eggshells’ experience with a partner by not getting near them in the first place. As you say this is not about being absent from the real and ongoing challenges of being in relationship, and of life, but eggshells are different and optional.
My own experience is that I am attracted to women of drama. I find them ‘zingy’ and I feel more alive around them. I grew up in a household with a fairly out of control mother who was depressed, angry and flailing.
I’m 62 now and have been married for 23 years. My wife’s drama quotient turned out to be the Goldilocks amount for me. Sometimes I am staggered that we managed to keep our wheels on the rails together. I’ve worked to get a better practical understanding of my own dynamics, as has she. I wouldn’t say I was there yet but I am am now a lot happier with the shadow that goes everywhere that I do. And I now have an easy relationship with my mum. (Never thought that would happen.)
It takes 2 to tango. A declaration of no drama is probably not going to do it’s intended job. It may be more practical to be attentive to what happens early on in getting to know the other (and to treat this process seriously), to take it slowly and to try to be more aware of one’s own nature.
22
Consider as a textbook example of high drama potential: A long-married divorced woman who leaps to conclude men are selfish cads only interested in "low maintenance" women, based on a mere 10% gender difference in an unscientific dating app database, in consultation with a California wannabe celebrity sociologist, with a recently minted PhD from UCLA for a dissertation entitled “Dating in the 21st Century," and a co-founder of a website called "Feministing." And, to top it off, this exemplary case maintains that the worst feeling thing that has happened to her is that her dog died, too. It does indeed stir one's compassion, gets all the empathy juices flowing, but then that's what high drama people do. That's their M.O. One lovingly wants to help and in the blink of an eye one is deep in it, very much in need of help oneself.
Here's a clue: If one's looking for a good long-term relationship, for a good marriage, don't expect to find an unpaid therapist to interminably hear and cure all that has happened to you in your life. My wife of 27 years turns a deaf ear to me the moment I mention anything that happened to me in a relationship before we met, even foods I used to like. And she's perfectly right to do so. Stops my tendency to dramatize my life story in its tracks. Marriage is a venerable institution that predates Love, best understood as having each other's backs come what may, not making each peachy keen again or in final triumph over one's own nature.
15
President Barack Obama's nickname was "no drama Obama." Does this mean he wasn't tackling substantive and challenging issues every day? Of course not. What it meant is that he wouldn't allow himself to be dragged into unnecessary emoting, hand-wringing and dramatizing situations beyond proportion. We all have those friends who seem to bounce from crisis to crisis. Small issues are talked to death and they're often stuck in past situations or relationships. When you develop a healthy emotional life and you've done the necessary work to get there, you do NOT want to be dragged into someone's inability to cope with daily life. This does not mean you won't be there 100% when a true situation arises that requires your support and attention. It means you're not looking for a relationship that is emotionally draining on a continual basis. There may be a better term for it, but I think "no drama" works pretty well.
517
@Diane B
Yes, jumping from crisis to crisis, having every problem discussed to death in forensic detail, wild mood swings that don't seem proportional to the situation, and being overly needy or scatterbrained, unable to see the bigger picture, all these can be very taxing on men.
Dare I say it's possibly even a form of "emotional labor"...
16
@Diane B That’s just the definition I was thinking of! There’s real life, with its ups and downs, and then there’s self-inflicted drama.
17
@Diane B
Reflecting his remarkable self- and situational awareness, Obama understood the risk of being labeled "an angry black man." Arguably though, he too often avoided confrontations that he should have dealt with head-on.
That's the past. I hope he will take off the gloves in the run-up to the 2020 election and fire up all of the Democratic electorate, including and especially those who need a stiff dose of drama to motivate them to show up on Nov. 8.
13
Love this article as it puts into perspective something I couldn't articulate. Literally EVERYONE wants people who don't blow things out of proportion or look for deeper double meanings in everything etc etc. And the ones most prone to doing such things are often not making a conscious effort to do so or even aware they do so.
So what is the actual point of writing this? Its saying I want someone who fits into my limits of what I define as 'normal'. What THEY define as not too overly ambitous, not too overthinking, not too focused on family, not too focused on job, not too focused on politics, whatever. If you are outside THEIR lines you are 'too dramatic'. It is a REDUCTIONIST term lacking nuance and a willingness to engage with nuance. It is a redline stating up front they will not take responsibility for a relationship not working out because if it doesn't work out it is because that other person was intrinsically flawed with 'drama'. Not that they had differing ways of processing the world, not that they had incompatible interests or world views, not that they had incompatible ways of processing information or planning for the future. No, just that his other person had a character defect of 'drama'.
Idealistic hogwash. Relationships ARE drama.
7
"No Drama" for me would mean; no kicking out my windshield in my truck with your stylish cowboy boot heel because you want to stress your point, or not sleeping with your neighbor because I had to work overtime. It also means not flirting with strangers just because I had to go to the bathroom. It means no ex-boyfriends or husbands are going to show up at your door at 3 a.m. drunk , or 3 p.m. either. It means you can't go out with your girlfriends while I babysit your daughter and have them deposit you on the doorstep at 2 a.m. in a drunken heap. It means not having your mother telling you in front of me that she doesn't think I make enough money to keep you in the style you're accustomed to. It means not having your not-so-cute dog pee on my 800 dollar speaker and then have you laugh it off. That's just a little of what "No Drama" means to me.
17
Well, see, you just don't want to end up dating one of the characters from 'Big Little Lies.'
6
I’m not exactly sure what men or women mean when the write “drama free” on a person to person basis. The optimist in me is the writer doesn’t want to deal with a pain in the butt, high maintenance, the sky is always falling mate.
The pessimist in me, though, because I’ve heard men articulate this “drama free” description further, is that they want to do whatever they want without anyone questioning it. As in, “All I want to do is hang with my buddies and she is a drama queen about it” scenarios.
3
@Lynne
It's a super vague term that means something different to everyone.
2
Men are remarkably stupid and consistent creatures. What that means -- "drama-free" -- is sex without pillow talk, whether you think of that as actual sex and rolling over to sleep right after, or "don't interrupt when I am watching football and I'm always watching football so talk to your friends if you have to talk."
Too many women on dating sites, on the other hand, tell me I "must love dogs." I don't dislike dogs but I don't love them and don't understand why I must to have a relationship.
7
Maybe when they state "no drama" its just a PC way of pleading "please. no snakes in the head"
5
Yes, well, women aren't perfect, and most of my ex-girlfriends (especially my ex-wife) were subject to being drama queens. A woman friend of mine in college said she preferred friendship with men. Women, she said (presumably referring to college girls) were vindictive and spiteful with their petty disputes, whereas the boys would just punch each other in the nose and be done with it.
8
I think this writer has somewhat misinterpreted the meaning behind the “no drama” comments. People don’t want unnecessary relationship drama, aka toxicity. There is nothing objectionable about that.
6
you could have just dropped it after the left swipe.
Its not that hard.
6
It means “let me take the lead here and don’t ask or try to get more than what I’m giving you.”
Pass.
3
The author's quick reaction to any "No drama" profile with a quick swipe seems quite dramatic. Have the author had any real insight about what "No drama" means from any of the posters? Is the conclusion in this article that people want "No drama" are more dramatic based on any real analysis? From the article I don't see that. I only see the author quoting some experts saying those. I bet there are other experts saying something else but here are some that support the author's point. Perhaps someone wrote "no drama" in their profile just copied from other profiles and thought it only means they didn't want a "drama queen/king"? Dismissing someone just because of one line in their profile (and wrote a whole article about it) just seems too ... well, ... dramatic?
2
I love the "drama" that my wife of 35 years has brought to my life. It's complexity--seeing things from another perspective, seeing how gender inflects everything that we experience, as does simply a different neuro-physiological perspective. The art of life is learning to harmonize the dissonance. If you can't handle that, of course, there are always porn sites. I suspect that's where a lot of the stupider viewpoint originates.
7
@Keith - agreed. Can't recommend your comment enough!
2
I am middle aged man on both tindr and Bumble and I don't have the word "drama" in my profile. But what I think the phrase tries to capture to most men who use it is, not to avoid life's vicissitudes etc, but, rather its that they fantasize of finding someone who can "roll" with the inevitable changes in people, places and things without blaming, shaming or naming their partner for it. Someone who can practice "radical acceptance", which is truly high state of beinghood. Who wouldn't want to be with someone like that?
6
How is it possible for men and women to have grown from boys and girls to adults, to have graduated from the University of Montana and Yale, to believe there is such a thing as a person “one hundred percent drama free?” How can such nonsense prevail?
I guess, when life has been drained of Eros, the Eros of love and courage that is Plato’s “Symposium,” when seduction with the possibility for love becomes a swipe of the finger on an iPhone, like pressing a button to buy a bag of potato chips from a Greyhound bus stop vending machine, when nature, its flora and fauna, sky, soil and water, are only commodities to be consumed, when you can have sex with robotic dolls that are as real as real men and women, then, I suppose, it can be necessary to ask for, and to actually believe in, a drama free relationship.
We live in a world where Eros has fled. We must try to lure her back. Try this tactic. I’m sure Eros will smile.
Ask your potential date what she or he thinks of the poem about plums William Carlos Williams wrote to his wife, Elsie. Ask if they’ve read Chekhov’s story, “The Lady With the Little Dog,” where the male lover eats a slice of watermelon.
Cold plums; watermelon with seeds! Williams and Chekhov! Will my Internet date wipe left? I hope not.
This Is Just To Say
William Carlos Williams
I have eaten
the plums
that were in
the icebox
and which
you were probably
saving
for breakfast
Forgive me
they were delicious
so sweet
and so cold
6
@Dave Thomas
Hi, Dave I grew up in Miles City. Might you care to re-think naming UofM and Yale in the same sentence ? ;-D
English Major, I presume ?
2
55 years married. Lesson learned, marriage is a living, breathing drama. Both of us have petty issues, and we dramatize them to make our point. It helps to tolerate one another during those "off days".
But when something big is going down, it's team work, love, and get it done.
Our life is a blast.👍
9
Funny, when I am looking at dating apps and a woman has a big dog, I swipe left, too.
I wonder what the author thinks this says about me? And, what does it say about men if more men than women are like me? Are we unrealistic, or just stating our preferences?
Lol!
2
In my experience, people use the label "drama" when what they mean is "I don't care about your problems and don't want to have to deal with them." I'm not talking about online. I'm talking about real, offline, face-to-face people. This is how they use the word regardless of their age.
If you want someone with good emotional self-control, say that. If you want someone who takes life's ups and downs in stride, say that. If you want someone with a good handle on their financial life, say that. If you want someone who doesn't do drugs, say that. Be specific. We're not mind-readers.
Better yet, stop setting up all these expectations for yourself on the perfect relationship. Decide for yourself BY YOURSELF what your dealbreakers are, never waver from them, and also don't announce them to the world. And spend some time with your prospective partner, and observe, and wait. Don't commit right away. Just wait.
Eventually the wrong ones for you will trip themselves up and you will know to end things and move on. Which, by the way, is a lot safer for men to do than it is for women. And then you don't have to worry about someone hyper-analyzing your dating profiles to see what you "really" mean.
8
Could be an interesting exercise to correlate the "no drama" seekers with other demographics, like age, income, religion, and politics. Also, I didn't see it mentioned here, but there must be at least some women-seeking-men who also are "no drama," and then, of course, how prevalent is this designation in same-sex postings? I know zip about the online dating scene but isn't it possible, even likely, that at least some of those seeking "no drama" have been put through the wringer by some nut-case and are not so much emotionally unavailable as emotionally exhausted? My own IRL experience is that some of the most interesting and attractive people I've met, the ones you flock to like moths to a flame, turn out over the long-term to be, well, kind of nuts.
1
By the same token, is it not a worthy moment of introspection for women as to why men are writing this? I mean, the woman writing for the feminist website called this "sexist." While I sure wouldn't be one to say anything like this to my partner, or online while I was actively dating, not wanting someone to jump down your throat is pretty normal, and not particularly antagonistic to women. I mean, both genders want stable love lives- that's reasonable. But if someone had a knee jerk reaction like the writer for aforementioned website, I would ask, "ok, what other inconsequential things are you going to fume about?"
I'm sure some men are piggish and that's their way of saying "I just want someone to sleep with and grab me a beer," but by the same token, the phrase doesn't really qualify anyone as a demon or a sexist pig. It's not like men don't want to listen, but everything in moderation, which is what the phrase gets at.
1
This has been going on a long time. Back a decade ago or so I tried a dating app. It was a disaster and one of the most common things I read was no drama please. It's totally sexist. Just men saying I don't want to deal with your stuff because they you won't be there 100% for my stuff. Like men have no drama. Please. men are the biggest drama queens ever. Case in point, Donald Trump. Ever seen such a drama queen?
6
Would’ve helped if author had defined “drama”.
4
I have learned some great file-worthy phrases from comments to this article, especially these: "No bunny boiling" and "Are you just venting or are you asking for help?". Hat tip to the contributors!
3
If a guy wants a drama free relationship with a real human female, he needs to give up that idea quickly. That’s not happening.
Just as men are prone to emotional constipation, women are predisposed to emotional diarrhea.
One of the key differences between males and and females on Costa and McCrea’s Five Factor model of personality is that women are more neurotic than men. This difference holds across the lifespan and across cultures, hence it has a substantial genetic component.
Evolution selected men to be more aggressive and have a higher sex drive than women. It also seems to have selected women to have more emotional instability than men.
So if a man wants a drama free relationship with a woman, he should probably just get a sex doll instead.
3
Yes, but surely every woman responds to men who want a "no drama" relationship as follows:
"A 'no drama' relationship? Oh what a silly little boy you are. Go back to mother. Come back on to this site when and only when you have grown up."
If every woman responds to every such man like this, perhaps those men might realize how utterly childish they are. They'll also realize they aren't going to be getting any "relationships" via that site--and probably via any site at all.
9
Let me attempt to mansplain what "no drama" means:
1. You're done with your exes. Your new guy won't have to see them or hear about them.
2. You're in shape. No drama about wait gain, eating nothing in restaurants, and complaining about your body.
3. You've got a job and hobbies you enjoy that keep you interested and interesting. Your man isn't the center of your life.
4. You've got the same vices he does so you aren't complaining about his. If you don't like his smoking or drinking, why are you with him? Those are the deal-breakers you handle before or during date #1.
6
I think the cant of this article is an example of the high drama men are trying to avoid from a partner.
4
Ah, the dating profile cliches: "No drama," "doesn't take life too seriously," "laid back." My favorite is men who say they "love to laugh," as if that somehow tells me something unique about you. Of course you love to laugh, dude; the only human beings who don't enjoy laughing have recently broken a rib.
6
In my mid-20s, after several turbulent, passionate, ultimately terminated relationships, I had a thought that I wanted, going forward, a relationship in which I could be confident that the garbage would always be taken out and the plumber would be paid. This, to me, meant that while, at times we could be as emotionally intense as any situation warranted, that the basic necessities of life would always be minded, that my future partner and I could maintain the structure of a sane, organized, functional life as a couple, and eventually as a family. It was important for me, especially when I thought of children being involved, to picture a relationship that did not involve a lot of fighting, yelling, etc. But the language of "no drama" does seem to imply a certain Stepford sterility, a desire for a relationship that reminds me of children engaging in parallel play, acting alongside one another, but not interacting or engaging. 30 years later, we have three generally well-adjusted children, and have always made sure the garbage gets taken out even when we are not talking to each other. Maintaining those habits, making the bed, paying the bills, cooking dinner, etc. create stability, so that when emotions run high, as they always do eventually, we can rely on our strong foundation to get us through challenging times. After all, who doesn't want to be challenged in a relationship?
3
From sampling the responses, I see confirmation that what many people don't want is a date with someone who thinks the drama and trials of their own little personal, or big, life are the heart and soul of communication.
I find this a bad habit of women more than men, on the whole. Subjects can include: my terrible problems with gluten allergy, hideous ex-divorce and ex-, money problems, being treated badly at work, etc. Men may hold back on these things because they are embarassed by them.
The preference seems to be for people who can talk about all aspects of life but not necessarily through their own trials and tribulations.
I think it all comes down to what makes someone interesting. These days feminine anguish is on the menu more than ever, mixed with complaints and outrage. Thoughtfulness, willingness to listen, discretion are qualities that take the "drama" out of these pseudo-conversations, conversations that should not occur until deep in a friendship.
Airing dirty laundry and frenzied thoughts doesn't leave much of a hint that what's out of sight is going to be fun and charming!
11
I think Laura Hilgers is missing the point about "No Drama". It's not about the drama that happens in life.... yes we have little control over that. It's the drama we create between us over differences in personality and behavior. The appeal of a "no drama" relationship is about the ability to not make mountains out of molehills...
11
Ms Hilger's article and the subsequent comments are a well rounded if too brief discussion of important contemporary experiences. Taken alone however, the potboiler-style article in itself suffers from an obvious conflation of distinct life experiences and overt misandry.
Emotional unavailability is simply not equivalent to seeking a healthy life not entangled with a drama-king or drama-queen.
From a personal point of view I am a little embarrassed to admit to being caught up in these concerns. Recently I was asked by a friend and her partner if I "would be a candidate for making a woman happy". I replied by paraphrasing General William Tecumseh Sherman and said "If nominated I will not run and if elected I will not serve."
2
I have also gone through huge life-crises including divorce during chemo. My experiences were so out of the range of anything I ever expected, I wrote a book about it, Sorry I Was No Fun at the Circus. That said, I also cut loose two high-drama female friends at that time, and completely understand what these men are saying when they denounce drama. Despite the real high drama which sometimes appears in my life, I consider myself very low-drama. Both of my sons in their 30's say they have never seen me cry. I do, but you won't know about it. If you see me out and about, you won't hear about my latest marker count. What happens to you and how you respond are two VERY different things. Asking for someone who is low drama in a relationship is asking for someone who doesn't get thrown off the horse every time the wind changes, someone who doesn't whine and cry about life, wail over every fence, talk incessantly about slights, or sabotage the lives of those who are forced to listen to them. I know these people of constant woe, mostly women, and I choose, whenever possible, not to have them in my life. Basically, I think these men are asking for a woman who can roll with the punches, maintain a sense of perspective and humor, and who can choose to stay calm and carry on while the storms of life range. This is what I, too, would want in a partner.
6
When I hear the term, “no drama,” I do not relate it to a person’s responses to the ups and downs of life, but rather those relationships in which the partner is overreacting to every flick of the eyebrow, every glance, every moment spent or not spent on them. Emotional interpretations left and right. Sometimes these can be understandable, if your partner is a real dud, and refuses to participate in the relationship. But, I never think of it as being essentially on account of no interest in the partner’s life. I think the writer’s hammer missed the nail.
7
Life provides enough drama. There is no need to create it. And that is what 'no drama' means.
9
interesting article, but the jomp to sexism as cause is premature. Perhaps it is sexism, I can't discount it, but the author seems to grab at it as the answer whereas just because something is an easy explanation doesn't mean it's the right one.
It's also another pivot in the renegotiating of relationships between genders, and the most illuminating fact is the variance by age. Perhaps the dismantling of the patriarchy will also be accompanied by a superficiality of engagement in relationships - drama equity, if you will. Stuff happens, deal with it.
2
Part of the difference between the rates in men and women who ask for "no drama" no doubt extends from the differences in age within dating pairs. As other NYT articles in this series have pointed out (e.g. Mona Chalabi's "I want My 2.3 Bonus Years"), men tend to find younger women more attractive, and women tend to find older men more attractive. Given the age discrepancy in dating pairs that results from this, it wouldn't be surprising if men generally ended up dating younger, less-experienced women, who are less skilled at coping with the emotional, financial, and personal challenges that life throws at them. If men are attracted to and then date younger women than themselves, they shouldn't be surprised that there is more "drama" in their younger partner's life than in their own. Nevertheless, it's still reasonable for them to want as little possible and to state it in plain language up front.
1
I've never used this line, but might. And I disagree that it's inherently sexist.
"Are they looking for a woman who never gets angry or afraid or sad, who never worries about her family or struggles in her job?"
Well, no. That sounds awful. What "drama free" means to me is that someone (regardless of gender) has come to terms with their baggage, done the work to address it, and now has the self-awareness, maturity and boundaries to show up, be vulnerable, share their feelings, and receive support, while, at the same time, generally taking responsibility for their own happiness. It means not constantly being a victim or using me as a lightning rod for their anger and fear. It means placing a premium on sanity and peace, individually and as a couple, and doing the work to attain it.
And it means expecting the same from me.
Also, I'm perfectly OK with excluding people who have ongoing trainwrecks for families. Had one of my own and did a lot of work to extricate myself. Not interested in going back.That's not a lack of empathy. That's recognizing that life is too short to waste on the hopelessly dysfunctional.
18
Go to any high school and ask the girls who the drama queens are. I suspect the girls will uniformly name the same girls. Those girls have no difficulty with definitions.
15
The author seems to conflate drama with adversity. Adversity is real, drama is artificial. Engaging in one's partner life and supporting them in times of adversity is one thing, living thru endless series of unnecessary crises because their sister is breaking up with her boyfriend, or their co-worker looked at them the wrong way is something else indeed..
15
"No Drama" is simply a code for saying "Any problems and I'm gone".
8
The article by Ms. Hilgers is righteous. What we as single people should do, is be able to HANDLE drama because it's everywhere. Your partner has a meltdown, maybe you contributed to it, so stop analyzing your partner and observe your reaction to the meltdown and perhaps how you contributed to it. Any partner in a two-person relationship can only be 50% responsible for any drama between the two.
2
These are people who have no concept of life or other humans. They want a life that is a consumer product - I suppose its predictable. I just read a great comment in the column about Tom Friedman´s strange editorial and agree that many of the people in the USA are almost hypnotised into perceiving as "normal" situations which are far from the historical or contemporary human norm. Like people working two and three jobs and not having any money. Like paying for higher ed to the tune of the price of a house. Like losing that house due to illness. And here like thinking one can commodify a partner/date/companion/person to have sex with. Its extreme strange thinking and behaviour as its delusional. Watching as an expat of 15 years with many US colleagues and friends it seems like delusion is the path many choose for daily survival. They ignore reality at their peril. Even if that peril will be many empty boring dates and strange detached sex. Why waste your life - Laura Hilgers has a great idea to just screen people out who profess to want such a strange existence.
4
Author ironically swipes by “no drama” men instead of engaging them.
6
Let me give you my definition of "no drama." A no-drama person WOULD NOT take an ambiguous phrase like "no drama," then automatically assume her personal definition is correct, not ask any men what was meant by it, blithely inject post-modern theory to deem the term as categorically sexist, and cite fictional works like "Romeo and Juliet" as ideal relationship narratives.
12
Our definition of "drama" will affect how we react to the article. Personally for me drama/dramatic is when a person is toxic, obsesive, enjoys gossip and spreading rumors, someone who exagerates emotions and events to a harmful level. In my opinion people who put "no drama" on their dating sights ARE SAYING THEY WANT a healthy relationship, one with ups and downs, baggage, someone who feels sad and happy and emotional. Maybe for them "drama=toxicity" (Maybe the definition of drama has changed between generations).
8
Laura.These are men who resist "drama queens". Those to whom every small mistake is elongated, prolonged, dramatized, and are personalized. Is that you?
8
I think "no drama" means that person is looking for a vacuous playmate, not a partner. Seems clear enough. Not what I would be looking for. Actually a wonderful heads up.
4
Men are simple; women are complex. When women stop projecting their own thought processes on men they will be a lot happier.
6
Actually, I think you meant, men are eternal children, women are adults. When women stop expecting men to behave like grown-ups...
3
Women's favrite dating site line is "no games". They never seem to define what "games" they're referring to. Dating sites seem to have their own unique lexicon. Social media encourages people to write things they'd never say in real life.
6
Laura you conclude your piece with the kind of partner you want, “one who can face the challenges and roll with them”.
I hate to be the one to break it to you but THAT is the definition of “no drama”.
15
Well, I hzave been married to the same man all my adult life, so am not an expert on the dating scene. But if someone says, "No drama" you could just ask exactly what they mean by that.
3
Let me decode that for you: "I don't want to listen to you speak about your emotions. Most of the time, I don't even want to hear what you have to say. "
5
seriously, why couldn't author have swiped right and asked the guy "what do you mean by 'no drama'?"
8
Why? Anybody who writes that already told me everything I need to know about him. No need to waste time.
3
If the author doesn't understand the phrase "no drama," there is too much of it in her life.
5
Pairs with the Do You culture. No drama means keep your issues to yourself. Smh. Women are not just emotional being and men, all people!, have emotions and need support from time to time.
this article has depressed me more than the lack of responses to my online dating profile....... which does not even include the phrase "no drama".
3
I think "no drama" translates to " I want to do what I want to do when I want to do it. I'd like my partner to want to be there when I want company, and leave me alone when I don't. Mostly, I want someone who just wants me to be happy all the time." It's selfish and it's not a relationship when it's all about just one person.
3
“No drama” is probably best interpreted as “no overreactive and blowing-things-out-of-proportion drama.”
I have written the phrase “no unnecessary drama” in seeking partners. What I mean by that is that I want someone who is fairly low-key and chill on a day-to-day basis. Yeah, when things happen, we deal with them. And certainly, if I am pursuing you as a long term partner or already in a relationship with you and seriously dramatic things come up, I’m going to go through them with you and be there for you. Things like illness to you and your loved ones, employment loss/difficulty, or whatever. The serious problems of life. But if you’re the type of person who frequently finds personal slights in everyday occurrences and gets upset about a lot of little things over and over again, then yeah, that’s what I would call “unnecessary drama.” One of the other posters here referred to “manufactured crises” and that’s an excellent phrase and an example of the types of drama that the “no drama” men are looking to avoid.
Additionally, if you’re telling me that “no drama” is posted most often by younger men (presumably in their 20s) then I might not want to apply the New York Times-level literalism to the “no” in that phrase literally. To me, that seems a little overdramatic. And unnecessarily so :-)
85
“No drama” translates to a desire to stay in the romantic stage of a relationship rather than grow into a mature relationship that includes conflict. People who want no drama are wanting something that isn’t possible.
In the romantic phase of a relationship, people are on their best behavior. It’s a no-growth phase and it ends. Some conflict occurs. Has to. People are not identical and differences will be revealed. How the couple handles these conflicts reveals whether the relationship has a future. “No drama” means I don’t do conflict. Good luck with that.
Take a pass on the folks who are conflict adverse. They have no idea what a mature relationship looks like. They need to grow up. Every relationship will have some drama/conflict. It’s how you deal with it that makes a healthy relationship.
4
I met my husband on Yahoo Personals. I wrote the ad and he responded to it. Reading this essay reminded me that in my post I said, “I’m looking for someone without a lot of drama in his life.” And I realize I meant exactly that. No ex-wife showing up unannounced. No need for outside frenzy to make life seem interesting.
What I didn’t say in my ad was that the absence of a need for drama did not simultaneously mean a man with no empathy, no ability to console, no blindness to the suffering that exists everywhere. What I got in my husband was a bit of both. He responds poorly or not at all to suffering. He wants to be above it, outside it. But I also got a husband who balances my tendency sometimes to see nothing but suffering in every panel of my life. So far we’re a good combination.
3
Interesting. I met my husband on a dating website, and though neither of us mentioned "no drama" in our profiles, we both consider "no drama" to be an important component of our relationship. I suppose it's how we define drama. If we define it in terms of theatrics, "no drama" is, in truth, what my husband and I both want. Yes, "drama" happens: that's what makes life interesting. But creating drama -- when one of us accidentally breaks a dish, when he forgets to bring his reusable straw, when I keep him waiting two minutes -- is avoidable. We both had it in our previous relationships. Neither of us liked it. When choosing each other, the "no drama" bit was, and is, important. Illness, the death of a parent, depression: this is the drama we deal with together. The other back-of-hand-to-the-forehead stuff belongs in a theater neither of us wants to attend.
5
Might I suggest hiring a sex worker for intimacy, an escort for conversation and company, and a counselor for advice, rather than expecting to get this all for free from someone? (Notice I didn't include therapist as a person who is "no drama" would have no need.)
1
It must be noted that this column is about, and the wording carefully limited to, straight couples. A column on this topic about, say, gay male couples, would definitely be different.
Interesting that Ms.Hilgers, when trying to determine what men mean by “no drama” consults only women. She also cites statistics that indicate large numbers of people are seeking to be “drama-free”, whatever they mean by the term, then blithely dismisses them as living in a fantasy world. It might be more beneficial to acknowledge the legitimacy of the issue and seriously seek to understand and address it.
8
The sexist assumptions towards men and women expressed here are disturbingly regressive. The "pink and blue" thinking the author and the people she interviewed are projecting onto men and women tells us more about their internalized stereotypes than it does about men, women and relationships. There's not even any data to back up the claims here. Just what the author "suspects" and the opinions of others based on anecdotal evidence.
There are men and women who are full of drama - addictions, insecurities, unresolved traumas that are projected onto their partner, etc., who expect to have their own drama coddled while having little tolerance for the needs of their partner. And there are men and women who do not want or need those dynamics in their relationships and see relationships as a healthy exchange of support and love--and there's nothing wrong with being truthful about that upfront.
5
I tend to think that the women are reading too much into the "No Drama" characteristic. I may be wrong but, as a man who has been married (to a woman) for over 40 years, I know that there is no relationship without argument, suffering, disagreement, fights, moods not on the same wavelength, etc. but I would not consider this "drama". I think, and maybe many of the men think the same, that "no drama" means no over-reacting and using conflicts in a relationship to score points on the partner. Drama may mean, to many men, being unreasonable about dealing with all of the problems of life and relationships. It doesn't necessarily mean that these men are looking for a perfect, conflict-free relationship.
I wouldn't be too quick to swipe left on a compatible profile without engaging in some conversation.
8
From my drama-filled friends and family
- every trifle is an emergency
- every slight critical observation a grave insult
- every description of something beautiful or ugly is used with a string of superlatives
- every detail of their day is a detail worth telling as if the was a matter of national importance.
- they snap and have short fuses
- they love to be the center of attention.
- they actually lack any consideration for anybody who does not worships them.
At first these people seem sparkling, larger then life. Then it gets exhausting.
12
Couldn't help but hark back to the campaign slogan: "NO DRAMA OBAMA". Yes, maybe he was a little cool sometimes and kept his anger to a simmer. But if I were looking for a loving relationship in which to talk out disagreements and raise some emotionally healthy kids, I think I might go for the No Drama example over the current ALL DRAMA alternative.
7
"But when heterosexual men say they’re looking for something “drama-free,” I suspect they want something that doesn’t exist: a problem-free partnership with someone who has no life experience. Are they looking for a woman who never gets angry or afraid or sad, who never worries about her family or struggles in her job?"
Maybe some mean "dedicated, practicing Stoic" when they say, "drama-free". Let's leave aside the issue of whether they really want and/or would enjoy such a relationship.
Some folks run hot, others run cool.
They manifest and deal with anger/fear/sadness differently. Part of the difference is innate, and part is based on ones life experiences. Often those (men and women) who have had to deal with a lot of adversity and hardship, especially through childhood and adolescence, score lower on the "drama" scale.
2
Thank you so much for this article. I fell for someone who was looking for "no drama" after my husband of 15 years died from brain cancer. I had three kids to take care of and after a lot of grieving I was looking for some fun with someone who had his life together and was able to take care of himself. We had so much fun and it led to marriage. Once married I realized how little of life's ups and downs he could handle. He was completely unable to experience life on a feeling level when things got tough. He lost his job and the facade came down. Even though he was able to figure out his career he was just so emotionally stunted I had to leave him. Life IS full of tough stuff and if you can't feel it and let it pass through you then you cause so much unnecessary suffering for those around you. This article and all the responses are very validating. I'm glad to be free of my "no drama" spouse.
3
Minor point about requesting a "no drama" relationship. How many drama addicts would admit to this character defect on an online-dating site? Ultimately, it's caveat emptor - you discover your dates' character gradually (and if they're good at camouflaging their flaws, often too late).
3
No drama to me means not being a needy headcase who’s always starting something over nothing. To be emotionally stable and not overly demanding, controlling or never satisfied. It’s a fair criteria, but it’s not like stating it will allow one to avoid these types.
11
Warning potential mates upfront about their intolerance to drama seems to me a good thing.
Drama queens don't have to waste their time.
6
I could not agree more with Ms. Hilgers. A life without drama is no life. Same with relationships. Especially with relationships between older individuals. We all have baggage from living our lives. Sometimes it's a carry-on; sometimes it's a steamer trunk.
I could never relate to any person who will not acknowledge that life experience by refusing to "deal" with it.
Deal me out.
3
Thank you, thank you thank you for this article. First, it's nice to see anything on NYT that isn't about marriage. I have noticed the trend as well post-divorce. Everyone has drama and baggage. You may not be the cause of it, but it can follow you. I am so disgusted by the way most men size me up first date; why did you divorce, do you have kids, how much drama do you bring, etc. I won't answer most of it. It's none of their business for a first date.
4
Well I understand the sentiment I think putting “no drama” in a dating profile is pointless; as the most dramatic people often would not describe themselves that way. It certainly is not going to weed them out. If anything it might weed out us calmer folks who when seeing that disclaimer might be concerned about your own baggage...
8
I imagine that different people mean different things by the comment. Some men probably mean that they want someone who needs no emotional support and has no strong opinions. However, some probably mean that they don't want someone who creates unnecessary conflict or blows small issues out of proportion. Recently, two of my coworkers created a major conflict out of which of two birthday cards to give to our administrative assistant, and attempted to ensnare others in our office in this incredibly minor issue. I'm female, and avoiding this type of ridiculous behavior is what I would define as "no drama."
11
The author misses the point that in this circumstance "drama" refers to the propensity to create it where it does not naturally occur. I will help and support my partner in all real world problems. I won't lift a finger for "drama".
16
I understand "drama" to mean something like "drama queen"-- a person who habitually responds to situations in a melodramatic way, typically to seek attention. "Drama" means a performative, ongoing state of intense emotion and supposedly serious problems, often characterized by fanning the flames of conflict with gossip.
I also find saying "no drama" to be off-putting, but for different reasons.
First, it goes without saying that we should avoid melodrama. So why bother saying "no drama"? This tells me the man has not thought through what he actually wants in a relationship. This phrase is over-simplistic, and it reflects an immaturity in the writer's conception of relationships.
Second, I agree with Ms. Valenti that there is a whiff of sexism. I think the higher predominance of "no drama" among straight men's profiles reflects the stereotype that women are gossips who create "drama."
Third, writing "no drama" in one's profile speaks to a lack of understanding of human psychology. If the goal is to ward off "drama queens," this is not an effective way to do it. No one thinks of herself as a "drama queen"! That is, no one is going to read "no drama" and think, "Ah, yes, I am someone who habitually responds to situations in a melodramatic way, so I should not match with this man because he wants 'no drama.'" Thus, it's a waste of time to write "no drama," on top of being immature and sexist.
5
I differ on how to interpret the request for "no drama". I also think that it is presumptuous to think only males want this. I am a pretty good listener but have had friends and family that are not sensitive to the amount of emotional space they demand. It leaves me exhausted and depressed. They on the unhand feel released, they've gotten it off their chest, but in fact they've often just dumped it on to you. Upping the anti to get your way is kind of selfish why not put it upfront that you want someone who is emotionally ready to negotiate like an adult?
3
I’m wondering whether it was a deliberate omission on the part of the author not to consider that “drama” might mean “histrionics” or being overly dramatic, not “having bad days or events happen to one.” Everyone has problems but not every tiny thing that happens is an excuse to act devastated or betrayed. This is widespread among people and it’s surprising only one gender wants to avoid it. I know people who spent years being faithful and under violent suspicion of cheating. That’s drama.
5
Exactly right about this. I'm a 62 year old man and I dated this woman who told me from the outside that she really wanted absolutely no drama. When I found this meant was she was completely oblivious to her own actions, and she was looking for a pet dog somebody who she didn't have to express feelings with. When he says no drama, run the other way and run the other way fast. These are people who have never come to terms with anything real in life
4
Yes, we do know about life. For example, many men know that when some women say " Yeah, go out with the guys. It's fine", it ends up not being fine. It means when many women say "It's up to you" when picking an activity, what it really means is "Try to guess what I want or I will pout like a baby" .We know " I'm not hungry" often means " I will eat what you order and then get annoyed if you show annoyance". We know that " Don't make a big deal about my birthday" often means " Nothing less than a surprise party with 50 of my friends and a Gordon Ramsay orchestrated Bacchanalian feast". Watch, someone will get mad at my stereotypes totally ignoring that the author insinuated that " they" , meaning all men, don't know about life which, ironically is another example of the drama "we" try to avoid. Get another dog
10
I think that the premise of your article is wrong. If drama in this context means emotionally, then one could conclude that drama free means a complete lack of emotionally. But that isn't what drama free means to most men. I'm certain that some men are truly in search of an amotional woman for a partner - along with a unicorn for a pet. But I'll bet that far more men are just in search of a woman who does not emote merely for the sake of emoting and who retains some shred of logic and reason even when beset by crises. That is what drama free means to them. Such perfect women seem to many men - especially those men who've been jaded by exposure to willful emoters or to the pure emotional processors found in dysfunctional personalities - to be rare finds . . . but well worth finding. In reality and in varying degree of balance, they are the norm.
8
OkCupid says men are 10% more likely to use the dreaded phrase than women. Yet the article is 90% bashing men.
10
When they say "no drama," I think they're just looking for a hookup, and not for a real relationship.
---Oh, that's very different...... Never mind.
3
many women on Tinder also say that they want "no drama" in their profiles.
1
No drama does not necessarily mean no problems or issues in life. Problems and problem-solving are the stuff of life. Drama is a choice. Some people relish drama and think that life without it is somehow diminished or ungenuine. But some find drama to be a gratuitous choice that lends little or nothing to life. Choose what you like. It hardly merits an article.
7
It's presumptuous to think that "no drama" from a man only means either "don't bother me with your emotions" or some type of compliant woman for a man. Maybe the author should have asked a few men what it means before making claims about what women think it means.
Most men simply don't want a woman's problem to be put upon him, i.e., it's not his fault she's feeling this way. My partner has significant problems with her family and her health and I am there for her-- she can vent, cry, or ignore me and that's normal. If she projects it on me, makes it my problem, or is cruel (she does none of those things) then that's where the "no drama" desire would come in.
I come from a family where my father was the drama queen and my mother even keeled, so the sexist stereotypes don't neatly describe the love, generosity, and patience needed if a couple is going to stay together.
4
I find that it’s the men who have drama overload: infidelity, several ex’s, rejected children, not single, looking to hook up, looking for “availability”, needing financial support, looking for pen pals.. and the list goes on. Dating apps are just another social media money making scam. “Profiles” are cut and paste. Buyer beware!
2
When I see the words "no drama", I immediately think "nothing serious - just a good time".
5
This is a great example of the author completely making up an issue to get angry about. That is drama.
15
You do see “drama free” a lot. My question to these men is: are you looking for a life without passion?
Caring = drama. You care about the well being of a person or cause or situation; things happen, and then you react. That’s drama. I’ve wondered about this to a couple drama free guys and they assure me they love passion. I think they’re man-children. Maybe one of you drama free types could hit reply and clarify.
4
@Eleanor
Drama-free = caring-free? Maybe it's more that people just don't care about your drama.
1
I think by “no drama”, these folks really mean “no melodrama.”
Everyone - and every relationship - experiences ups and downs; there are definitely some folks who amplify those natural ups and downs. That _melodrama_ gets really tiring.
7
As bad as the fictional Prince Charming.
Have never understood the phrase "no drama" in a manner that makes is useful.
I certainly do not want to be in a relationship with Daisy from the Gatsby or anyone who lives their life emulating fictional characters as their role models.
Hard to have patience for anyone who reacts to the world in ways designed to elicit attention or manipulate.
Whiners do not make the cut either.
But I would very much like to spend time with someone that is engaged with the world; in the world [mitwelt] participating in the human drama and sharing their point of view. Commincating feelings is a good form dramatic arts.
"No drama" sounds to me pretty sterile.........living in a castle with high walls and a broad moat. Given that it tends to be kings who have castles, it seems no surprise that more men than women want to live in a castle -- a very American dream.
Goes well with my other dating app bugaboo........"Prince Charming" or any princely trope. Hardly a partnering "I have got your back" connection, but often next in line for a kingship.
1
The author does not appear to understand the the meaning of this term coming from a man. Furthermore, seeking guidance from Ms. Valenti, who sees everything from the lens of the oppressive patriarchy only reinforces the author's bias and confusion. If the author wanted to know what men mean by this, she could've asked them.
5
Here's what men actually mean when they say they want no drama:
"I'm looking for a no-strings-attached, casual, uncommitted relationship. In particular, I want casual sex when it suits me, you should be 'well groomed,' and if you gain three pounds, I'll be gone so fast your head will spin."
8
@Sarah
That's an incredibly specific and detailed extrapolation of those two words. Could it be about a very particular man and not "men"?
4
@J.C. It comes from a decade of former online dating experience.
4
No drama means other people's drama. You can be sure there is plenty of drama among those who plead for none of it from others. So, essentially a narcissistic expectation. Definitely a red flag when expressed in the context of dating.
That said, while I have a lot of compassion for the pain and angst of others, there are some people who are.... well, just so full of drama! I think the fine line might be when the pain and angst itself begins to feel like a narcissistic indulgence.
2
I think she misses the point. Women are adept at relationship game-playing, manipulation and psychological warfare. Men are not and get frustrated with it quickly. A man can be empathetic and supportive but still resent his partner's way of operating. This does not make him "sexist", just fed up with it.
10
I too thought the writer made sweeping generalizations and some odd assumptions and associations with the term “no drama” in the context of dating. But it’s even more fascinating reading the many interpretations of this phrase by readers. “No drama” seems to be a completely ambiguous phrase that should probably be saved as a potential conversation piece for that awkward first date. No drama please.
5
If the woman is really attractive, these drama-free seekers are probably willing to endure at least some drama.
7
I think there's a great irony here. The author willfully misunderstands the phrase "no drama" that she sees on the profile sites of men she won't be matching with, then interviews no men about this to keep from having her thesis disproved by finding out they're actually referring to emotional and/or physical abuse, THEN writes an article about the phrase in an international newspaper creating....unnecessary drama.
Going to politely swipe left on this one.
8
The type of man described here knows plenty about life.
It's just that he prefers to know more about sex.
3
If you've grown up with screens instead of human relationships, you're probably terrified of "drama". Ditto if you had helicopter parents who solved all your problems.
5
"Emotionless partner"? Try a robot. A few moments reflecting on history show you that life is as much a tragedy as it is a comedy. At least two of the great world religions develop that awareness.
1
I am a gay man so I can't weigh in on the gender distinction for the use of the word "drama" in a personal ad. I do know that it goes down as a negative in my book when I see someone saying he doesn't want any drama. Oftentimes I suspect the writer is projecting his own tendencies onto other people. You know, like Trump always does. Other times I suspect the writer calls it "drama" whenever his partner says something he doesn't want to hear. And I agree with the commenters who suggest that it's likely to mean totally different things to different people. It's a personal ad cliche. It's a bit like "spontaneous." I avoid those personal ads also. A person claiming to seek somebody "spontaneous" really is looking for somebody who will cater to all the writer's whims just like a puppy dog.
2
Our last president's nickname, affectionately bestowed by his staffers, was " No-drama Obama." I would take that over the incessant drama of the current president any day. It was far more effective in getting things done, and certainly less exhausting to observe.
5
A preponderance of women are also quite fond of ridiculouly requiring this of men.
2
With no offense intended towards the author or the commentors, the discussion of the topic seems inane to me on several levels, notwithstanding the accuracy of a number of points raised in the piece. If one is so shallow, self-absorbed, or inexperienced that he/she includes the unrealistic requirement of “no drama “ in a dating profile why would anyone waste more time than the millisecond it takes to read the phrase on that person’s profile or more significantly, any time discussing or trying to fathom the mindset of this type of individual? Just swipe!! Indeed, the person who places that type of precondition on simply meeting an otherwise appealing person probably has some deep-seated issues of his/her own that warrant an immediate swipe to the left in large part because he/she is incapable of understanding that about him or herself.
2
It’s a kind of silly thing to put anyway. How many women (or guys) are going to say, “I’m a real drama queen. I’d better not respond to this ad?”
5
Trying to avoid drama is usually a good way to find it.
Sorry, MEN are the high drama half of most relationships. They are always actively struggling to get one up on the women they claim to love. They speak out of both sides of their mouths. That's why WOMEN should be running the world. They constantly worry that women's goal is to keep them from doing what they want to do, like we have nothing better with which to occupy ourselves. We are calmer, more practical, more direct, more accomplished, more flexible. WE can walk and chew gum. My late husband spent his time in our marriage trying to pick a fight with me. I refused to cooperate, which made HIM the drama queen. He was just like most men I have known. Unfortunately, he died before I could divorce him.
7
We can't win for losing
3
Perhaps a “no drama” request is an inadvertent way to rule out the crazies. However, it has an air of control, and they might as well say “hey, if you’re disappointed that I’m not capable of offering emotional support and empathy, well it’s not as if you weren’t warned.” In other words, it’s a cop out. After all, everyone in life pays retail- eventually.
1
I think you and your sources have it quite wrong. People who say they want drama free relationships are not looking for avoidance of stress, loss and conflict that arrives and originates from the outside world (ie; job loss, deaths, illness, etc...). They seek to avoid that which is manufactured from within. Such as "why do you wear that ugly shirt?" or "if you were a man, you'd..." or the lovely litany of passive aggressive behaviors that frequently prevail (ie; silent treatment). Btw, if a given behavior occurs more with one gender than another does not make claims of it misogynistic or misandrist. It makes it fact.
9
I'm a hetero man. We all know there's enough stress... so why add the drama?
Don't dump on your partner when you walk in the door. We're available to listen but not all the time... probably just like you.
And often its NOT what we say, but how we say it to each other, our approach and timing.
Plenty of us seem to need to repeat "our story", and even polish our neurosis for attention. Or where, any situation can trigger this repeated drama... yea gets old. Pay a professional. Don't use your partner for FREE therapy!!
So ... yea I can solve your problem, validate your emotions or honor your process. Or just hold you.
1
The self-absorbed and self-admiring attitude of most men is brilliantly summed up in the soliloquy of Henry Higgins in the Lerner and Loewe musical My Fair Lady: "A Hymn to Him."
https://genius.com/Rex-harrison-a-hymn-to-him-lyrics
In the end, he realizes that he provides more than his own share of drama, and he misses hers. But I am a sappy romantic who loves happy endings.
2
I'd like to think "no drama" means that you realize your life is not a potential reality t.v. show and that you don't take yourself too seriously. So many things have become bigger than life, weddings, home remodeling, SUVs, binge watching, etc. Life is difficult, of course, but taking a walk, watching a sunset, petting your dog...these are the things that make life sweet. In my book, no drama equals keeping it simple.
8
Maybe instead of “no drama” the writers should say seeks “zen like” relationship. I think that would be far more affirming than the negative which translates to coldness.
2
Laura is correct. There will always be drama of different sorts. I've spent a lot of time in sales dealing with the public at large. Same thing. If you don't think you will get some nightmare people to deal with - you are kidding yourself.
You learn to deal with it and not let it get to you.
As Bob Dylan wrote -
" An' though the rules of the road have been lodged
It's only people's games that you got to dodge"
1
Don't get upset with men because they say this or that or the other thing. If you don't like what a guy says, let him go home to his hand.
“No drama” mean “not available.” I’m a cold person and opposites do not attract.
The author should have contacted the men on those apps rather than swiped left — and asked them what they meant by “no drama”!
Hope she follows up and does that.
It’s interesting to me that the two sociologists she talked to had very different takes about what that phrase meant — and yet her column only highlighted one of them.
Just to showcase the other perspective — here it is again:
“She told me that when men in their 20s and 30s say they want something drama-free, they’re looking for women who are “lower maintenance.”
When middle-aged men use it, they’re trying to avoid the entanglements that come with former spouses and family. “They could have just gone through a terrible divorce,” Dr. Carbino told me. “They could have presumably been dealing with a lot of issues with their own families, with their children, with their ex-spouses, and they want something that doesn’t present any type of problem or issue.”
That’s how many commenters took the phrase and it’s a view that deserved greater respect and more treatment in the column.
To deepen the understanding of this — let’s contrast “No Drama Obama” with the temporary occupant of the Oval Office who treats every day and everyone as part of his personal drama. He’s a prima donna and the embodiment of a “Drama Queen”. The scary thing is the damage he’s doing.
A “low maintenance” President is looking good about now!
5
This column is incredible. The author manages to create drama from an individual's honest and sincere effort to avoid drama. Really, this is something special. There are also a lot of assumptions going on in the comments here and that otherworldly obnoxious. "What these men want is a servile, compliant, weak willed and spiritless wife." WHAT? Everyone needs to take it down just a notch.
6
As others have pointed out, the meaning of "no drama" is elastic to the point of being meaningless.
Obama was called "No-drama Obama" not because he was a soulless narcissist, but because, as president anyway, he kept his cool during high-stress situations.
Trump is the exact opposite, being nothing but drama; which sort of person would you rather date?
4
Men have finally figured out what women and feminism truly want and are giving it to them. It is direct sexual honesty and strength.
It 'reads' like emotional indifference. Any other stance will put you in the friend's zone or a sexless monogamy with a bored woman. Women do not want overly empathetic men as mates no matter how much they pretend otherwise. So guys , be direct, say less and insist on no drama relationships. Women view this as attractive, frustratingly so but attractive in dating and relationships nonetheless. Let the solipsistic deniers of this be alone, men or women.
1
Powerful feelings of love and affection can easily tip into drama from saying something stupid to nutty actions. Genuine dramatic emotional roller coaster rides from these feelings are unavoidable. Better to have experienced it than not.
There is no mention in this article that Ms. Hilgers queried men about what they meant when their profile requested drama-free women.
5
To me drama-free is a pc version of "not high-maintenance".
5
How can a whole article be written about what heterosexual men mean/think about "no drama" without seeking the answers from heterosexual men? Why on earth would the author think that a female sociologist and a female feminist would have the answer about what men think? If I want to know how good a ribeye steak is at a restaurant...I don't ask a vegan.
Drama means (to me)...making mountains out of molehills. Unnecessary emotion for the situation. Confrontations for no reason. Here's an anecdote:
I asked a woman on date. We made plans on a Wednesday. We'd go out on Saturday night. I'd pick her up at 7pm. Shortly before I arrived, I called her to let her know that I might be a few minutes late because of traffic...fortunately, I made it and was a few minutes early. She came down, I opened and held the car door for her, she got it in, and we were off. A few minutes into the ride, she told me that I should have planned better so that I would not be late in the future (I wasn’t late). She then told me that I should not open/hold the car door for her unless I was planning to do that for our entire relationship because… you know...false expectations.
After dinner, I dropped her off and was glad to be rid of her. She contacted me several times afterwards telling me that she had a nice time but that some of the issues could have been avoided had I taken the time to ask her HOW HER DAY WENT. No thank you…No Drama.
8
Regardless of what you might interpret “no drama” to mean, To include such a phrase smacks of such arrogance, condescension and entitlement. There’s a reason that people who include it are single.
1
How about women using "No insensitivity to or suppression of feelings" in their data app profiles?
2
The people of this nation have got it all backwards. The time to be engrossed in the righting of the world's problems is after marriage, rather than before. Notice commitment is the precursor. I'm skeptical of single radical transformers as I believe them to be setting themselves up for establishment patsies after realizing the lasting presence of a significant other.
Witness the discussion on another thread concerning baby boomers & the sixties.
"Marriage, n. The state of condition of a community consisting of a master, a mistress & two slaves, making in all two." Ambrose Bierce
Full disclosure- My wife will turn 70 in a couple weeks & is mistaken for 20 year old, when viewed from behind in her yoga pants.
1
I think your are over analyzing this. Looking for a "no drama" relationship means one is looking for a person who is on an even keel. It signals a lack of interest in histionics.
7
Oh, if men could only be what you want them to be! But fortunately you live in a tolerant, gender-fluid society. Hook up with a nice, perfect woman who treasures drama. Every day you can have a screaming scene, tears, maybe a broken dish or two. In short, drama.
Or maybe you'll have to content yourself with some guy who doesn't want to hook up with a head case. Life is full of compromises.
The men you rejected are looking for somebody to love and to be loved by, just as you are. They just don't want drama. Do YOU want drama?
3
Ten percent more men than women use the drama-free phrase. That's close enough to equal to surmise that the writer is just trying to create drama where there is none. Watch out for her, gentlemen.
6
Romeo and Juliet is great, on stage. In real life, it's better if the families don't want to kill each other and the couple doesn't end up dead.
7
Until at least November 2020 or January 20, 2021, the preference is full of fantasy.
OK--no drama's never going to work. How about less drama?
I think he means “let’s commit to not blow things out of proportion, either of us.”
5
If they want "no drama," maybe they should just bypass the human element completely in a relationship and buy an inflatable doll instead.
2
Very likely the only "dates" those "no drama" dudes get anyhow. .
There’s a big “no drama” problem but this piece contributes to it by blaming men when the “proof” used says the blame is, like the sexes, equal.
The stats cited, so cherry picked as to be useless except for the one contradicting her manblaming, says there’s only a 10% gap between men & women looking for “no drama.” & that gap is likely within the margin of error & from a single source. Yet the writer & editor tell us this statistically insignificant difference means it’s a men problem & men looking for it are sexist. What does that make the only slightly fewer women looking for it? Hmm.
As a single dad with a diagnosed ex, my anecdotal experience is that men are much more open to women with drama, i.e. kids, ex spouses, etc, than women are. Granted, that’s cuz men are more likely to think, let’s hop in bed and figure the rest out later while women are more likely to consider kids involved, etc before acting. But I’m on those apps and A LOT women are looking for “no drama,” too.
So why frame it as a men problem? Why manblame when the “proof” says both sexes deserve blame?
Maybe thats the kind of drama both men and women want to avoid, not a bad day or a crazy ex or a few kids. The writer makes a great point about the absurdity of “no drama” then disproves it by being absurdly dramatic and womansplaining it away - a shiesty thing men do, too, but by more than 10%.
The writer has the lack of self awareness you’d expect from a man. No one wants that kind of drama.
6
No drama is code for not looking for a relationship right now. Everyone knows this.
2
Just today a guy wrote the French equivalent to me : "Pas de prise de tête". And when I said I thought that may not work he said OK no worries. So I wondered if by drama-free he meant he just wanted a hook-up... and if so why did he not say it outright like so many do ... Yes I know women and all their questions...
1
The drama-prone author swiping left reinforces why ‘drama-free’ is the PERFECT phrase for a drama-averse individual to put on his or her profile. Mission accomplished!
5
Dated a girl with Borderline Personality Disorder for a while. Lots of Drama. Wouldn't want to go through that again.
6
"No drama" equates to "no neuroses."
4
What? You mean, just like in grammar school and high school, females are more mature--or at least more realistic--than men?
I resemble that remark!
1
A lot of great stuff here but honestly, I think Ms. Hilgers may be thinking too much. How much time do we single people put into the one paragraph allowed on dating apps? 20 seconds? I like movies! And dogs! No drama! I mean, it's not a thesis
I dated a “no drama” individual who would just shut down when turbulence occurred in our relationship. We had much in common and shared many interests. Their idea of a valued partnership was harmony, compatibility, and peace. I thought that was my ideal situation and my preferred relationship as well. I was independent, outgoing and generous. After many months I slowly began to realize that I was in love with someone who was really just plain cold and distant by nature.
I later got dumped by email.
77
@Charlie
Be grateful that you were dumped, Charlie. That was a relationship headed for the dumpsters. A person who says "no drama" is also a person incapable of relating much less sustaining a meaningful relationship. Email breakup? Yikes. We cannot experience joy or happiness without struggling for it. And that means accepting that we will have to argue (occasionally), disagree, or even accept difference in others. But there is no avoiding the feelings that arise when those tensions mount. It also means learning how to speak one's needs without having to resort to passive aggression and punishing emotional withdrawal.
The real pleasure of any relationship is overcoming moments of tension or disagreement by talking things through even though there was initial tension. It is also about apologizing, accepting one's role in the conflict, and learning to work towards genuine connection and not a false or performed harmony. I say a big NO to people who say "no drama".
6
Let me clarify "no drama". It means that they want to date you and if they are sexually attracted to you, enjoy your company in bed but please do not expect commitment, understanding, empathy or anything else because all of that is "drama".
6
Every man I’ve ever dated who claimed to want “drama-free” and a “low-maintenance woman” ALWAYS wound up being dramatic and high-maintenance, themselves, in addition to close-minded, somewhat misogynistic, and largely lacking empathy. The others—including the wonderful man I eventually married—seemed amused by the very idea. Everyone comes with a little bit of baggage, and a mature adult should recognize that very few individuals think or feel so one-dimensionally. Honestly, by the time I reached my late 20’s and tried internet dating for the first time, statements like “seeking drama-free” served as a instant red flag. Sorry that your one bad experience with a “crazy” ex has led you to conclude that the entire female dating pool is inherently unhinged, likely to use emotion as a manipulative tool, etc. but please don’t complain when you find yourself alone and unclear as to why we all think you’re a loser. Real men (and women!) can handle real feelings and real life.
103
@NurseKaoru Your first sentence has 100% been my experience as well. At some point I figured out that the no drama chant was simply an act of projection. Those words in any context are a major red flag.
17
@NurseKaoru Another possibility: *some* part of the female dating pool is indeed crazy, needy/dependent, and looking for a replacement-father instead of partner. "No drama" is sometimes code for "independent woman who can handle herself."
8
@Christopher Langston. One could say *exactly* the same thing about the male dating pool. Drama is not a gendered thing, whatever “drama” means anyway.
11
I've dated women who manufacture drama... this is different than dealing with the hardships inevitable in life ... this is finding fault in the smallest interactions and flaws in every person they come across. And then complaining incessantly about it in a way that frames these women as victims. That's the sort of drama I suspect these men and women are trying to avoid.
3
A woman sees a phrase used by men and asks sociologist Jessica, feminist Vanessa, and Dr. Mark to explain to her what those men mean by it, while never actually asking the men themselves. At no point is a man who uses the phrase asked what he means by it. At no point does the article consider the possibility that some women are prone to bring more drama to life than is called for by life's circumstances.
Instead of considering the possibility that these men mean scenarios like "I had a bad day yesterday when a co-worker told me I looked tired and I was thinking this guy I've hooked up with twice would text me last night so I could respond to him and tell him about my bad day but he didn't text me last night and so now today I'm mad at him and am not responding to his texts", the author instead decides that these is really about a scenario like "my husband is bored by my cancer".
4
I want to express my agreement with the commenters who've pointed out that men asking for "no drama" from women aren't looking for partners, they're looking for conveniences, subordinates, people who are there instantly when wanted and who fade into the background or disappear altogether when not wanted. Any man who uses this expression is demonstrating his misogynism.
3
@Stephen Merritt
"...men asking for "no drama" from women aren't looking for partners..."
Neither is a woman who rejects an otherwise appealing man because those words appear in his profile.
1
You are not "appealing" if you use that phrase.
I found your column thought provoking and in the process understood something about my own life. With respect to you, I wonder if what you are experiencing is your response to the empty nest syndrome.
I have known drama-filled and no drama relationships and drama-light relationships are best. Nowhere did you state what the basis for your definition of what men mean when they say drama-free. I suspect though that you defining things on the basis of your interpretation of what your ex-husband thought.
May I make a suggestion of how you could make you opinion piece more authoritative. Why not right click when you see the term drama-free in an otherwise somewhat appealing bio. Then find out what how the man has defined drama-free. Maybe in the process you'll learn something about yourself as well as him. Maybe a little more compromise is in order. At the very least you will be able to right more authoritatively.
If learn nothing then try to find someone who wants a drama filled life so that you can experience what living with drama not of your own creation and and then you may see how you can compromise in your own life. If not you'll need someone who finds your drama appealing and wait for him to become saturated as well.
In any case I am appreciative for what you have added to my life.
2
I accept the inevitability of "drama" but, having experienced it, I fear it to the point where I would not want it part of a relationship. Call me inconsequential but this might be a consequence of having been traumatized by "drama". And guess what, I am neither a monster nor a jerk: of course I accept human nature and the fact that being upset or sad is a fact of life. But there are "drama"-prone personalities and I can't deal with them.
4
I agree with you. I’m a woman of little drama but was once married to a man of high drama. The dramatic personality and all its needs is NOT limited to females.
2
In the current HBO series Years and Years that depicts a near future England, a male character owns a robot that he uses for self-gratification. No drama!
4
I forget who said it, but I think its true, so far - 'never fall in love with someone whose problems are bigger than your own'.
Still in love with my partner, after 40 years, we've been able to overcome ( love through) our problems. Respect goes a long way and a sense of humor is appreciated.
Mom told me a long long time ago, never fall in love with a man who has to win everything, every time. Wise woman saved me some drama.
3
"Never marry a princess who owns a dragon farm."
4
I don't know. I'm a female, and I have no problem saying that I think women need to get a lot more honest with themselves about their behavior (as do men, of course, but mostly for different reasons) when it comes to emotional volatility.
I've gone through some signficant spiritual transformations over the last few years, and when I look back on my behavior in relationships I've been in, I'm pretty appalled at how I acted - blowing things of little or no consquence up in to crises that just had to be addressed right away, getting jealous over innocent remarks, taking offense at the slightest provocation. I see women I know doing the same things regularly in their relationships. They also bring that way-too-easily-offended attitude into the workplace (I have found men, in general, to be much more pleasant and easier to work with.)
It's very easy for me to see why a guy who's been through a relationship with that kind of dynamic going on would feel compelled to say "no drama." The problem with that designation is that it gives the impression that they aren't willing to deal with even real issues that might arise, when what they're really trying to say is that they don't want to deal with someone who regularly gets worked up over nothing.
"No drama queens" might be a shorthand way of expressing that, but perhaps a healthier and kinder way to put it might be "must be emotionally mature, maintain awareness of their own actions, and able to laugh at themselves."
16
@Kristin: That was well put Kristin. Thank you
2
The article appears in a rush to define and generalize what these folks consider “No drama” while not interviewing or asking a single one to clarify what they’re talking about. On my profile, I mentioned a desire to meet people who are “even keel,” but that doesn’t mean that I want them to be an (in the quoted words of Vanessa Valenti) “emotionless partner who has no needs.” It means I don’t want them to start a fight when I joke that I like their scarf more than I like them or that they’ll freak out and threaten to call the cops and jump out of my car in a rural area after I tell them they’re stressing me out (these actually happened and wound up ending the respective relationships).
The article then has the audacity to suggest that people who use the phrase lack compassion, when perhaps they’ve been badly hurt by someone in a prior relationship and are using this phrase as a means of emotional protection. But the article is one sided and assumes that “no drama” is a blanket statement for “trying to control the drama outside them.” Compassion works both ways, and the article should investigate the case from every angle, as opposed to making suppositions without both sides of the story.
11
I think the author missed the point of the phrase "no drama." It doesn't mean that you want to avoid the real problems of life. When you call someone a "drama queen," this means manufactured drama. We've all got enough real problems. What we don't want it a partnership with someone who stirs things up and creates drama where there doesn't have to be any--or who creates problems for the sake of the drama.
20
@Noreen - thank you! I could not have said it better!
1
It is too intellectually lazy to label any man who uses the drama-free preference as sexist and try to shame them.
In "Who is Afraid of Virginia Wolf" the husband and wife enjoy tearing each other apart. Not all people are like that.
People, like lightbulbs, have different degrees of intensity. Some like to argue a lot, some not. Some have a short fuse and wear their hearts on their sleeves; others became silent when upset and avoid confrontation at all costs. The first tend to lie by exaggeration, the second by omission.
In real life, I happened to meet men (and women) who had such a short fuse that I quickly did a mental swipe. Both my parents are drama queens types, and it
has always been exhausting for my brother and I who are the silent types.
I have also met men who called themselves no-drama-lamas, whose own behavior and hidden truths created great drama for me, only they were oblivious to it because their manner was always civil and calm.
For them, it was not a matter of sexism, as much as an innate lack of empathy and consideration. In the end, likes attract like and we should not stifle nature. We should be thankful if someone reveals theirs off the bat.
Overall, I tend to take the drama-free preference as something up my alley, and I swipe yes. Then, it is a wait and see for the rest to click into place.
Author, among others, of the novel
My Life on Craigslist.
9
Regarding gender, the question of no drama and emotional availability can cut both ways. I will never forget the day I learned my mother was diagnosed with ovarian cancer, an illness she would succumb to two years later.
I was on the Upper West Side with my then girlfriend; we were enjoying a sunny Saturday, wandering and window shopping with our grande French Roasts in hand, on our way to brunch.
I'd just gotten off the phone, having heard the bad news, which I immediately shared with her.
"Who was that?" she asked.
"My mother. She has stage three ovarian cancer."
My girlfriend remained staring a retail store mannequin.
"Do you like the pattern on this dress?"
I asked her if she'd heard what I'd just said.
"I don't know what you want me to say," was her reply.
As with places, sometimes with people - male or female - there is no there there.
12
That the author felt the loss of her dog, Spike so acutely is ironically the whole thesis of the essay: no drama. Animals, God bless them, when in the company of good people love unconditionally. Not to say that there aren't moments when what they do can be exasperating, like when cats think outside the litter box, or dogs unroll the whole toilet paper roll in the bathroom. But one look into those eyes and suddenly all is forgiven. They are here to teach us, if we will only stop long enough to listen.
6
I have a beautiful and gloriously intelligent wife and two very artistic and gifted daughters (it all came from their mother). The older daughter has long charged me with being a "drama queen." I have never liked it but I have come to understand how true it is. But, there you have it.
2
In my admittedly dated (pun intended) experience, it meant I'll show when I feel like it and never any other time; don't go having expectations.
1
Relationships are about need fulfillment. And the author did not really address that.
Especially when we get older, starting a relationship requires that we invest a significant amount of our time and energy into another person who we do not know all that well. And since there are no guarantees that this effort will have long-term success (or "be worth the effort"), it is especially important that the relationship fulfills my needs now, not at some potential date in the future.
We need to keep our expectations in line with what others are willing to invest in a relationship with us. And too much drama is too much risk - because that may be a sign that the other person is just a taker and not able to fulfill my needs from the relationship.
Keep it light enough to make the other person comfortable and make sure that we give comfort and joy, not just require it from the other person. That is what I, and many others I suspect, mean when I say low drama.
4
Much simpler than suggested; I want to enjoy our time together so don't bring drama in for the first date. The request for "no drama" is more a plea to stop bringing your poor choices, life's hiccups, and the imagined pain you feel due to politics, religion, or relationships (other than ours) to the first date. I have never seen "no drama" hold past the third date 'cause Life holds drama even when I would rather minimize the pain, frustration, and angst my own drama creates/discovers.
6
Very true. I see "no drama" in the profiles of folks in my virtual reality world.
I know that means that they are completely superficial and do not understand that what they call 'drama' is the stuff of real life. Or perhaps they did find the 'drama', experienced it, and they were hurt by it. So now it's 'no drama'. Their loss, I always think.
So, at least this is a virtual world, not our real world, and they can escape 'drama'.
I have found that 'drama' seeks me out even in my virtual world, and that's ok. Drama is difficult, but necessary to me for a 'real' experience in my virtual world.
1
Virtual "reality" world not the best place to gauge "relationships" as most of their "inhabitants" are troubled people trying to escape the real world.
I'm so pleased to see that most readers of this piece, judging by their comments, are able to understand that the author's "splitting" tendency (seeing in black or white, totalizing terms) is reductionist and simplistic. Her lack of an ability to see nuance is itself an example of her symptom to simplify her life in order to maintain a feeling of control over it.
It is not really that different from the psychological tools employed by Trump supporters at his rallies.
10
I agree 100% with the commenters who disagree with the author's interpretation of what "no drama" actually means, and would argue that she is actually proving the point of those who might mention it in their profiles. Rather than ask these men (and women) directly, she dismisses them outright, assumes the worst interpretation without seeking clarity from the source, and looks outward to find people who'll take her side. This is the root of drama, and not how one builds a successful adult relationship.
9
The writer misunderstands the term drama here. "No drama" doesn't mean no emotions or life experience at all. It means not twisting regular life into unnecessary...drama, creating conflict and emotional turmoil where none need exist.
Seems like most folks know the difference.
12
My experience with men (or women) who want "no drama" is that they are blind to the destructive "drama" they create. They are living in a communally held fantasy world that reflects some version of a TV show, and are projecting their inability to embrace real life into this concept of "no drama." People seem to be unable to differentiate any more from reality and movies and TV. For the most part TV and movies are now carefully crafted to manipulate the viewers and keep them enslaved to their advertising. But this altered world is not real and will never support the development of the real art if life, in which life is a continuous enthralling drama, sometimes damaging or boring and sometimes invigorating and thrilling, and mostly somewhere in between. Denying this energy or projecting it on to the other ( the bad woman, etc.) doesn't work and that's why we are creating a society of lonely though well fed people.
3
I’ve been noticing this trend too and thought they were referring to relationship baggage, which I guess is pretty understandable. However, what I know from my experience is that the men most likely to say this are also the most likely to bring the drama into the relationship. Either way, I still swipe left on these ones because it’s just so unoriginal and makes them sound totally self involved.
3
I have been very happily married to a wonderful drama-free person for a long time. If I were ever to find myself single - and I hope I don’t - I would run like the wind from anyone who considered the doomed, thwarted relationships in Casablanca, Romeo and Juliet and Brokeback Mountain to be any sort of model. Life will inevitably bring drama and tragedy; to seek or crave it seems perverse and unhealthy.
9
Been mulling this over and there’s a ring of truth to this. My husband of 25+ years is deeply adverse to conflict and “drama”. I am a person who lives a little loudly and I suspect after all these years he is attracted to me because I feel and emote while he finds this difficult. The problems arise when he is unable to help me manage the stress I feel and contributes to it. I think the “no drama” is not necessarily coming from a Stepford Wife place. Instead, I think it often stems not having the tools to help someone with their everyday emotions. It’s too bad because both end up feeling alone.
4
Leave him. Emotionally closed men are not healthy people. He needs help with his issues and you deserve somebody better. Feeling alone while married is not acceptable.
2
This column, which seems like gratuitous man-bashing, says more about Ms. Hilgers and why she may be middle-age and single. I suspect she's still swiping precisely because she brings conflict to her relationships. Perhaps finding a man who will put up with her is a Ridiculous Fantasy of her own.
I have to wonder, especially in these times, what the comments would be if a man were complaining that all women on dating sites were hysterical and moody. Yeah, that would go over well....
Why are people on a dating site in their middle ages? Most likely, divorce, which is said to be one of the most stressful life events, especially if children are involved. So is it any wonder that, when looking for another partner in the wake of divorce (or even a childhood spent listening to fighting parents), many men don't want to spend their remaining years arguing over minutiae?
It's an interesting juxtaposition: on one hand, women complain (validly) that so many men are abusive and aggressive. Now the complaint is that to many men shy away from confrontation and conflict.
I would say to Ms. Hilgers to find someone whose personality matches her own instead of publicly griping about men in general.
13
Middle age men are really clueless. The reason why most of them have trouble finding women their age willing to date and put up with them is that we, middle age women, know better. Many of us have already raised a family including the extra kid: the man-child who doesn't like "drama"
4
@Rosie
Rosie, I just find it hypocritical that, in the age of #metoo, women find it acceptable to lump all middle age men together. As I said above, god forbid a male columnist lament his lack of dating success by insisting that all middle age women are hysterical and obsessed with their cats.
1
When I see "no drama" in a dating app, I simply ignore it. The phrase, as is shown by so many commenters offering 100's of potential definitions (i.e., men "looking for a Stepford Wife," or are "commitment phobic," and describing women as "ruled by their emotions") proves how ambiguous and undefinable it actually is.
4
This article is a bit misleading. The authors cites one source, Bumble, that says that men use the term 3x more than women but a second source, says its 10%. So I would question the real statistical differences here. Secondly, I have encountered this quite often in women's profiles. I do agree with the assessment that whoever says this (man or woman) is likely not emotionally available and not any sort of relationship material. I have a similar response to those that say that they don't want someone who takes themselves too seriously. I would suggest avoiding either type, regardless of sex.
1
I think you're over analyzing this. What are you supposed to put in a dating app profile anyway? "I have a ton of baggage; we can swap war stories over dinner." I don't really blame men for avoiding the more painful points in life on a first date. It's not surprising someone isn't excited to meet your children from a former marriage before they've even had a chance to sit down with you. You're working at cross purposes.
Women are laying everything out there because they don't have time for men who develop cold feet later. Men are saying let's keep this fun and casual until we agree we actually like each other. Then we can discuss baggage.
Is this always true? Almost certainly not. However, how much can you understand about a person between swipes anyway? Statistics are fun and useful but they aren't everything. If you showed me a statistic that said relationships including a dating app profile with the phrase "no drama" had a significantly higher failure rate, I might care.
In the mean time, I'm not sure I would want to have dinner with someone so easily turned off. I also wouldn't want to spend the entire night explaining my life story like some sort of bizarre interview. That's just weird.
17
Is it possible that men who are looking for someone with no drama are trying to find someone who will always do as they say and not question what they want or feel?
4
@BSR
No, not possible. In fact, the drama is likely caused by a women who believes her feelings take priority over everything.
3
The last thing I want to do is defend men on dating apps (or men, period), but I think "no drama" is perhaps being misinterpreted here. Obviously there is drama in all but the most casual relationships. I think "no drama" in this context typically means don't get heavy with me when we're just starting a dating relationship. Don't start off with overblown expectations and then overreact when they don't come to fruition. Don't spend our first or second date telling me about all your past problems with men. The same goes for men, of course.
A relationship without drama would probably be pretty boring. But let's try to hold off on the drama until we know we're in a serious relationship.
10
Yes, I agree completely. I've also noticed a trend of middle aged men online stating that they want women who are "emotionally available," which, in my admittedly limited experience, means a woman who is constantly available to talk on the phone at length, text, or go away on a spur-of-the-moment weekend getaway. I am 50 years old. I work full-time with a demanding career and I am a primary custodial parent. I need to exercise, and, well, I need some alone time to recharge. I can accommodate a man's emotional needs within reason, but that is often not enough. Historically, though, men have enjoyed this unfettered emotional availability, so why not expect it, even if it comes at the expense of women's emotional well-being? Today, however, it's just not a realistic expectation, so good luck!
6
I can see why the writer feels as she does. "No drama"certainly could mean an emotionally cold person but could, as easily, I think also be a sign that the prospect has recently emerged from one or more "dramatic" relationships with unstable partners and is looking for normal give and take; someone who will also be supportive of him rather than someone overly self-involved. I would, also, not conclude that younger generations are different from older ones in any way other than that they are younger people. Older people have more life experience. They are more aware of the ups and downs in every life because they have experienced them first hand. While the inclusion of "no drama" could be irritating I hope that when people are looking for a life partner they will not "swipe left" because of one phrase rather than evaluating the person as a whole . You could be missing out on someone kind and loving who has just emerged from a relationship with an addict or a similar emotional difficulty who, when writing the ad, came up with no better way to express the need for an even and reciprocal relationship other than to use those words.
4
My son recently had a brief relationship with a girl, who came with so much drama. Her brother did not want her dating him because his friends are not allowed to date his sister. The parents stood with the son. (We are talking about 22 year olds here). It was incredibly insulting and far too much drama. So yes, my son is looking for a girl friend like his sisters: accomplished, strong, independent, opinionated and fun to be with. No family drama please.
9
I think most people interpret the phase 'no drama' to mean no excessive drama.
16
Many of the comments correctly note that most people who use the term "no drama" to encompass the idea of avoiding people who take a sledgehammer to a gnat (borrowing from one commenter). Another commenter notes Ms. Hilgers' failure to interview people, men and women, about their use of the term. My emotional response to Ms. Hilgers' opinions is similar to my response to someone using overwrought emotion (dare I say "drama") to express their perspective and associated emotions. If she were one of my students, I'd hand her back her paper and say "It's an important subject. However, you've not done all the research needed, including spending more time on self-reflection. Keep working on it."
16
Hear, hear!
1
Had enough drama with my ex wife of 25 years. Lots of lost time that I will never get back. Why would I want more with only about a third of my life left to live?
4
I'm a little confused. The author wants to understand why men want "no drama" and then proceeds to ask different women about men and their attitudes. Me, I expect life to be full of ups and downs, but if you want to know something about men, ask men.
14
I wonder if reality TV has a part to play here. The few times I've seen shows featuring bridezillas or "housewives" I've been appalled at a truly bizarre and atypical behavior (intentionally curated by the show) peddled as "reality." I wonder if young people (in particular), watch drek like that and conclude it represents real emotion - aka drama. With abnormal and over the top behavior peddled as real life, could it be that some men see this and presume A) women are like this and B) want to avoid such individuals?
8
Or maybe the man is saying that until and unless we fall in love, I prefer a relationship that is a respite from the stress we both have in our lives. Using a dating app profile to make a sweeping judgment that a heterosexual man is uncaring of the woman he loves, unwilling to be caring and supportive, is sexist.
9
All the more reason to date only people you actually meet in person.
While many friends have found great partners through online dating apps, and have encouraged me to try it, I'm just not interested. It seems so unromantic, like the "speed dating" I hear so much about.
I understand people are busy, and so much of life seems to be focused on a screen these days.
I know how old this makes me sound (62 in a few days), but if you want to meet someone, put down the phone. Volunteer for something you believe in, join an activity group, talk to the person in the elevator or next to you on the subway (if they're not plugged in) or at the grocery store.
You'd be surprised how eager people are for simple human connection.
And hey...you never know who you might meet.
9
No drama to me means no preferences, no emotions, no spine. I don’t like conflict either, or seek to create it, but I don’t think that’s what this means. I’d pass.
5
What I see in the comments are fairly gendered responses to the phase 'no drama' along the lines of men indicating they don't want invented crises, i.e. more drama than is warranted, and women wanting the full range of emotions, including negative ones, to be available to them in a relationship. Both are valid perspectives.
However, men, since it is the woman that will be swiping left or right, and you have now been informed that many women interpret this phase negatively, I would suggest you all listen and update your profiles as needed.
16
@S
Wouldn’t that be deceptive advertising?
Maybe this is the social environment we deserve. To have men misrepresent their interests; and, in turn, lure women into a relationship to which they will become disillusioned, men are doing the right thing to be completely transparent.
The fact that an increasing number of people preference homosexuality - a form of pairing for which there is no genetic pass-down, only the genetic outlier or personal choice - perhaps we should all stand up and admit that we have destroyed heterosexual pair-bonding for a couple generations. Homosexuality is fine, but you cannot explain its increase in a world of science, so give it its due as a social construct, at least in part (certainly the growing part).
No?
Look at the Comments, look at the age of first marriage, look at the rates of divorce, look at the number of sexual partners by sex and age, look at the increase in pornography, consider the spike in eating disorders, and look at the incidence of STDs (setting aside HIV).
Oh, yeah. The post-modern crowd has portrayed coupling as a potentially violent, sexually unsatisfying, and emotionally perilous amd futile pursuit.
NO DRAMA means not having to face the mess we have made of relationships.
3
@Stuart
I don't consider this 'deceptive advertising' simply because I view the problem as being in the interpretation of this phase 'no drama'.
It seems that there is a gendered interpretation of the phase (as indicated in the comments).
The problem arises because the gender of the writer and the reader of this phase in heterosexual dating profiles are necessarily going to be different.
The writer of an online dating profile needs to be able to correctly understand how the opposite gender will interpret their profile. No need to limit one's dating pool over some poor wording.
4
@Stuart. There is already TONS of deceptive advertising in online dating profiles! Everyone portrays themselves as better than they really are.
The way my husband and I succeeded in online dating 14 years ago was laying everything on the line up front, good and bad, best and messy, ordinary and quirky. If more people did that, they might waste less time following unsuitable romantic leads and more time having fun with a new partner.
3
The author first sideswipes and then nevertheless assumes she is in a position to judge about "the men" who say they want "something drama-free". I don't like that phrase either and I think there's propably a lot of confusion involved when it is used to describe what one seeks in a relationship. But instead inviting feminists and buddhists to speculate about the moral respectability of the motives of these men, it would probably have turned out to be illuminating to speak and listen to some of them.
15
Drama can come in the form of insecurity and jealousy, creating verbal and physical fights, being demanding but never giving, and the list goes on. I do not consider complaining about a bad day to be drama, this get lumped into everyday life that needs to get discussed so that you do not lose your sanity. If you think this is drama, don't enter into a relationship because you likely do not have the compassion needed for one.
Don't forget men cause drama too.
4
No drama means no abuse. One of the unreported aspects of dating and relationships for men, lost in the MeToo era and one that men are reluctant to admit or discuss, is emotional abuse. Don’t get me wrong, MeToo was long overdue, but I’m willing to bet many men have experienced what I did-the isolation, bewilderment, pain and lasting effects of being in a relationship with someone who thinks nothing of infusing flippant, confusing, manipulative, selfish and negative emotional energy into what otherwise appears to be a pairing of much love, affection and caring-only it isn’t. I thank my lucky stars every day that I found my wife-a sober, responsible, caring partner who has my back and like me, rejects high maintenance attitudes and behavior in anyone, man or woman.
24
@HK
Well, as one piece of evidence, i can say i was married to a woman who would express her anger to me at bed time. I would say, its late, lets talk tomorrow.
She would not accept that and would attack me verbally. When i put in ear buds, she ripped them out.
When i moved down the hall, she would come into that room.
When i put a lock on the door, she would kick it and stand in front of it yelling.
In all of these cases she would yell at me for hours. One night i begged her to stop because i had an important meeting the next morning. She didnt stop until 2 am, which was pretty typical.
1
@HK I think there's something to what you're saying, but I doubt most abusers or unstable people see themselves as causing drama. It's really up to the person picking a partner to weed out the bad apples. People need to have good self-esteem before entering into relationships, so they don't tolerate other people mistreating them.
In the near future, men preferring "no drama" will select that function on their droid.
8
"No Drama" is usually taken by reasonable people to mean "no unnecessary voluntarily chosen drama". Some people think that they won't be listened to unless they create drama. My ex-wife broke into my apartment after our divorce and destroyed belongings because she thought I was carrying on an affair (I wasn't). That is drama. The article author was writing from a stance that discounts the all too often experience of men.
19
Reading through this article I get the impression this person doesn’t have a clue as to the difference between drama and life events. It seems she didn’t get much clarity from those she asked.
This is unfortunate. It seems many women are conflating men’s desire to be adult and balanced with lack of emotional support. Perhaps a more important story is this confusion and why so many women are experiencing it.
18
The author is lucky, she hasn't been on the receiving end of drama-queen behaviour. That would explain why she's totally and hilariously misunderstood what the phrase "no drama"means.
Either that, or she creates a lot of drama herself.
24
Relationship are about overcoming incompatibility. "No drama" mean working to settle those differences without extensive fighting, and being able to forgive.
17
Communicating directly with a potential partner about past experiences and personal needs would be way more effective. Stating “no drama” does not actually sus out any potential bad actors; instead, it implies possible emotional immaturity, lack of communication skills and unresolved issues from past relationships.
9
Ultimately, this seems to be a semantic argument. So, perhaps change the word. In the hot minute between relationships when my then-therapist suggested I use online dating, I wrestled with this.
My previous relationship had been emotionally abusive, with my partner picking fights over everything from what movie to see to where to go for dinner. The escalating broadsides, particularly as his infidelities and alcoholism accelerated, over a minor issue are what I thought of as "drama." In other words, an outsized reaction to a situation, which caused all level of, in my opinion, unnecessary stress.
If Ms. Hilgers writes about addiction, she should know that one of the goals of recovery is to accept "life on life's terms," and respond accordingly and appropriately. "No drama" to me has come to mean, "don't go after gnats with a sledgehammer."
A strong sense of self, healthy boundaries, trusting my own instincts and knowing when to walk away are key components of this. It does not mean being emotionally unavailable, uncaring, or moving heaven and earth if need be to support the person you love. I tended to be more mercurial and ego-driven in my younger years, so I did have drama-filled relationships.
No more. That's why in my brief online experience I adopted the British word "sorted" to mean "no drama."
PS--I've been in a no-drama relationship for 11 years. We've been through illness, death and more. We've done it with honesty, emotion, feeling, and love. But no drama.
17
My assumption to when a man says "no drama", means that they don't want someone who creates a problem out of everything. Who over exaggerates an issue and makes the situation worse. I also assume that it means crying for no reason, starting arguments about nothing. You know, the extras that can be left out; the acting most women do for attention is what I would consider to be "drama". That is what "drama free" would mean in a relationship to a man.
15
@S D White What many men would describe as crying for no reason is crying due to feeling depressed, angry, or fatigued or feeling that all sorts of bad stuff has built up. Sometimes crying is a release.
If men prefer crying only when total tragedies have occurred, then maybe they should choose a dog as their companion.
1
You’ve dated most women and there’s drama? Perhaps you should examine your role in that.
1
To me “no drama” doesn’t mean no differences, friction, or troubles, but that what differences, friction, or troubles exist are responded to in an adult way, with mindfulness, and without histrionics or other unnecessary tactics that are used to heighten emotional levels in ways that are used to manipulate and control. This is my view as a married, gen-x female who has seen LOTS of drama (and regrettably created some of it myself). There is a way to deal with life’s challenges without adding to their intensity unnecessarily, and maybe you can call it maturity. I just wish I had learned that lesson sooner. Clearly some people on these dating apps have.
7
It seems to be common term used in the female profiles I've seen. I wonder why the author doesn't state the overall percentage for both sexes, just saying men are 10 percent more likely? In any case, a 10 percent difference doesn't seem hugely significant to me in a non-scientific study.
6
If I were seeking a person to spend time with, I would not do it thru an app and 25 word summaries and preferences.
I would get engaged in community, particularly church or charitable activities. My bet is that similarly minded women would be in those groups, not focused on their profiles or needs or self-assessment but on other people. They would not post discussions about inflated self-importance, sexual compatibility, emotional descriptors. They would be out walking the walk, unguarded, vulnerable, living life, not trolling for a mate.
In that truthful environment, when I looked around me, I would likely see women whom I would want to get to know better. I would not be sitting in a bar or devising a way to engage a work colleague or making assessments based on physical appearance.
9
"No drama" has become one of the many catch phrases used in a time when people take three seconds to decide whether a person is worthy of a date. Of course anyone who has lived with flying dishes, slamming doors, theatrical exits and wrecked holidays knows what the phrase means. It has to do with behavior, self-awareness and maturity, not feelings. But the main problem here is that the "research" is pretty flimsy in attributing the term largely to men. It seems to be common across genders and as many others have pointed out, where are the voices of the men?
16
Great article. I'm going to share it with my daughter.
The bottom line is that men who want "no drama" are really looking for a "Stepford Wife." What these men want is a servile, compliant, obsequious, weak-willed and spiritless wife or partner who happily does her man's bidding, agrees absolutely with everything he says and does, serves his every whim dutifully and immediately to the point where her own needs and even the needs of the children are neglected, and displays no signs of personal intellect or thought. A pretty good example of a woman like this is the one who voted for trump simply because her husband or boyfriend told her to.
It may sound pretty good to have a person cater to all of your "needs" while allowing you the outlet of never having to reciprocate, but I can see where it would be a disaster. Such a relationship would eventually get boring at best and turn dangerous at its worst. All of us need a counselor at some point in our lives; we all will sometimes need an intelligent "sounding board" for serious ideas and decisions, or simply someone to share our troubles with. Such a woman would be unable to give intelligent advice and would respond to requests for counsel with an airy "Oh you do whatever you want. Anything you want is okay with me." Or she would sit there with a vacant stare, her hands in her lap, refusing to give any answer at all.
As Spock said, such a man would learn that HAVING is not nearly so pleasing a thing as wanting.
114
@Elizabeth Moore
You actually nailed this for me, some men want women to be nothing but obedient and compliant. Unfortunately, this has been the way it was to be a possession passed from father to husband. Currently, we are racing backward for women to become chattel again.
8
@Elizabeth Moore
I actually know several women who voted for Trump in spite of their husbands voting for Hillary Clinton or one of the fringe candidates.
My “servile” wife voted for Hillary, and I supported the Libertarian who cannot be trusted with global politics.
The only points you make here are terribly anti-male and deeply caricatured stereotypes.
10
@Elizabeth Moore Excellent points, and extra kudos for the Amok Time quote.
4
Men can provide a lot of drama. They can be provocative, controlling, self consumed, aloof, belittling, expect you to take care of their business....etc etc. I used to have a friend who could call me at some random moment and if I didn't answer, demand to know where I was. Men also tend to want to be dominant and if they choose a women child get plenty of drama.
10
Yeah. Partnership is about someone who is required to be present when there are issues. Otherwise, what have one?
2
@NSf
'Required'?
Good luck with that. I don't require anything of my wife other than she consider and voluntarily assist in matters relating to our relationship.
Required had nothing to do with it.
1
@dmckjThere is a difference between friend and partner.
I wonder if these no drama individuals are self aware enough to understand that their desire comes as an ironic juxtaposition against the fact that they are alone and using a dating app to find someone? I wonder if they get it?
Here's a simple reality. If you seek out companionship from anyone (other than a pet) then you must accept all that comes along with that seeking. Period. Enjoy life (buddy).
John~
American Net'Zen
5
If you pick someone for compatibility, there's a lot less drama. My tours on online and app dating show me that most (not all) women want men who are 6' 3", even if there's no compatibility. Women (most, not all) seem to have an image whom their spouse should and how their life should be. Then, if life doesn't meet image, there's disgruntlement and drama. Some women need friction/drama to get aroused (consider Celeste in Big Little Lies).
If you pick a mate for shared interests, there will be less drama. I've heard women say they pick a man for his height and the try to make him into the man that want in other areas.
For men, drama is worthwhile, only if the woman is gorgeous. Most men will put up with crazy from a model. If a man says "no drama," it actually means he's willing to date less attractive women, because men assume that all gorgeous knock-outs come with drama and crazy. Most men would absolutely put up with drama for Jessica Biel or Giselle or Taylor Swift (not my type). No man who's trying to date models half his age says "no drama," because he knows that drama comes with the territory of dating beautiful women in their 20's.
5
There is not true compatibility in heterosexual relationships as what drives men and women to partner with somebody are two very different things. As much as many of the male commenters here try to deny it, most of them will take all the drama in the world as long as they think they will get the sexual gratification they want. Women on the other hand put up and tolerate a lot of nonsense, including bad sex, for the sake of the relationship. That is not compatibility.
1
Any excuse to make turmoil. Someone who gets hurts 2 and reacts 9. Someone who won't be pleased no matter what you do. My way or what's wrong with you? Life is all about me. That's drama. There are people like that, and who wants to be around them? That's what I would mean if I posted "no drama" on a dating site.
12
I'm the worst Drama Queen I've ever met. It runs in my genes. My father was also a terrible over-reactor, as was his father, and is my sister. Not all the time though. We overdramatise the trivial stuff but tend to shut up and knuckle down when the proverbial hits the fan.
My father's brother, Edward, was the worst of all of us. He would fly into terrible violent rages over nothing. My father used to tell my mother that it was only a mater of time before Edward killed somebody in one of his rages. Fortunately, Edward died in his thirties of a heart attack before this happened. Unfortunately, he left a wife and two small children behind him whom my father had to try to help financially until they grew up.
I too can fly into terrible rages over the most trivial things. I hate it. I regard it as my worst character fault. I know that my long-suffering wife and kids used to find it very wearying.
My mother used to feel the same about my father. How she longed for an easy going man, she used to confide in me.
There's a lot to be said for no unnecessary drama in ones life.
17
@Colenso
You're bravery and honesty are beyond commendable.
May I so presumptuous as to suggest a combination of regular exercise and mediation?
They work to dispel demons.
1
@Colenso "In your genes"? Probably not. Learned behavior, probably - learning fro myour father, and learned, because when you did it, it worked for you, in some way. But really, not 'in your genes'...
Feminists might hate me for this but men are still the primary breadwinners. Fewer and fewer jobs in the modern world are the lower-skilled, lower-intellect-required type of job where you can literally leave it behind after an eight-hour shift. Now you spend off-hours reviewing the day's work challenges and preparing for the often mostly unknowable problems of the next day at work. This is a significantly different work environment from some decades ago where you had a pretty good idea of what you were going to do at work tomorrow because it would be much like what you did today. Given this environment, many a man has not got the time - much less the patience - to hash over emotional issues when he is seriously concerned with navigating the modern workplace's tricky environment that provides the paycheck that feeds the family. That's why added drama at home can be the straw that breaks his back.
2
@Norm Weaver Your claim that men are still the primary breadwinners is belied by actual statistics. This is not true in the majority of households.
6
@Norm - What century are you in? Men as primary bread winners is not still the case. Pick up a newspaper once in a while.
1
@Norm Weaver
You dinosaur.
Just wait until we break this culture. You will see. Men will be feminine. Women will be masculine. The US will be led 50/50. Gender, as a term, will be unnecessary. And sex will be mind-blowing and transcendant.
Give us ten more years. You will see.
2
Women are men's life "Fixers". Choosing to take on the hard grinding cultural work of solving/smoothing problems that have little financial monetization but massive cultural and relationship long term consequences. And what do we get in return? a) You choose to do this so it's on you, why should I do it just because you think it's important, it doesn't need to happen. It's like dirt and ironing, men don't want to deal with it. b) You're so controlling and needlessly obsessive, a scold, a nag. Google "Scolds bridle images" and you'll see this is a very old reaction of men to women's fixing social problems that basically involve men being told to more work. c) And lastly my personal favorite, while you spend your time wrangling kids/parents/family/social issues that all contribute to total family life, I'm going to kick back and have a beer. Which begs the question, why do women value social acceptance over freedom. Which begs the question, why has it taken such harsh punishments and consequences over the centuries to keep women in their place? Doesn't seem to me like women do value social acceptance over freedom any more than men. We are just targeted from birth for massive socialization to create this desire to take on work for free. So much effort for so long to keep women subjugated. And yet, we're comin' out of the kitchen, because there's something we forgot to say to you!
4
That's quite a bit of projection: drama - free is wanted by someone who is emotionless and who has no life experience. And of course, it's only men then want that. Seriously, you're getting your input from a dating app! Try meeting these people. And until then, feel free to swipe left on me.
5
When I tried online dating, I always assumed the men with "no drama" in their profiles were drama queens themselves so I swiped left on them. It takes one to know one.
7
I don't see "No Drama" as a ridiculous fantasy at all. For me, it just means no over-reacting, screaming fits, slamming doors, crying jags -- in other words, if you can't behave like a mature, educated adult, I'm not interested. Thankfully, I've found my "No Drama" significant other and it's bliss!
11
Obviously no drama usually means no invented drama, as others have pointed out. But hey it's 2019 so why not make anything into an opportunity to bash men. You asked Jessica Valenti about something and she things it's sexist? Fascinating.
7
It stretches credulity that this article derides men because “men over all were 10 percent more likely to say this than women.” Wow ten percent. Even if you assume the worst of this statement - not to imply no cheaters but somehow nobody who will ever get ill - 10 percent seems low. Are the women who say no drama sexist too?
6
The author does not understand what men mean by drama, so she went and asked... other women.
The drama men are referring to? Try asking some men and most will have a story to tell -- usually it will involve a narcissistic women who thinks a man should always know what she's feeling and agree with her.
9
If she wanted to understand what men mean by “No drama”, why did she ask several women? Haha. She should’ve asked one of the men what it means.
It just means men don’t like a lot of screaming and shouting in disagreements. They prefer more rational and logical discourse.
5
@Tom. Male or female: when emotions are involved, logic and rationalism are out the window. If you disagree, listen carefully when men talk about sports. They bet on teams with awful stats just because they "don't like" the other team or one of the players on that team. Men that specify they want logic/rationalism mean they want that from another person according to their own rules - which means that they can be illogical/irrational at will, but no one else can be. Neat trick - rarely works.
I think we can all agree that the author got it all wrong. I always take the “no drama” statement to mean that the guy has been neglectful in his previous relationship and his partner got upset about it. “Drama” usually means pre-breakup. Give me a hug and a kiss every day and I’m your ideal no-drama partner. Be distant or dismissive and my drama starts to eek out. I imagine my partner thinks he’s being perfectly reasonable and I’m the crazy one. That’s my take on “no drama”.
3
Being a man who has dated online, I can tell you exactly what “no drama” means. It means we don’t want to date people who are complicated and have many personal issues. Those are the sorts that tend to still be single late in life. In particular, we don’t want to date people who are single because they have a complicated grudge against the other sex,i.e., feminists, which we cannot say outright without causing offense.
6
Dust in the wind (this comment)...
Men - when you live 24/7 on the Oprah Winfrey Show with Dr. Phil - are "not in touch with their feelings." Most of them are "angry." (About something) But they don't know that they're angry. That's why they are so abusive. They're angry.
Now, women are victims. And victims are a new protected class these days. And when you are a victim and you see life through the victim's lens: it colors everything (and it's not rosy).
Many of these TV-talk-show psychological formulations are cliches. And experiencing life through cliches is just about as problematic as "not being in touch with your feelings."
How about an authentic life experience - personal/relational - and taking responsibility for the choices you make and for the good-and-bad consequences that flow from those choices. And from chance, fortune, and misadventure...
1
As was woman who did a stint of midlife online dating and came out the other side, my interpretation of "no drama" penned by men is that it signals in big red letters his lack of emotional availability. This could be situational or temperamental, and either way it's best to hard pass. It's not just that the man doesn't like disproportionate reactions to various things and doesn't want to deal with the detritus of your life (problems with exes, kids, money, work, etc.) The preemptive admonition fundamentally operates as a handy get-out-of-jail-free card to excuse him from showing up (literally and metaphorically) when he doesn't feel like it. If you, as a woman, ever assert your need to be treated with respect or to assert or express anything at all that makes him uncomfortable, he has already reserved his right to deem your needs and feelings as unreasonable and thus a source of drama that will lend him the cover to exit stage left. "But I warned you that I didn't want drama," he may remind you when you express disappointment, say, that he flaked on a date. The real drama he wants to avoid here is not yours, but the unwelcome "drama" in his own psyche when he experiences tension between his self-motivated desires (typically for no-strings fun and sex) and his sense that something more is expected of him than he is interested in giving. That something more might be something as small as simple kindness and care with another person's feelings. "No drama" = weasel words.
181
@marmoset
Nailed it.
8
If you’re looking for a relationship with no drama, then you are definitely not looking for love, or maybe not a “relationship.”
Not that there’s anything wrong with that, and I think Mr. Seinfeld would agree.
4
I could easily write a piece about selfish, manipulative, crazy and really odd women I've come across in my life, but seeing I don't see women through my experiences with what is the exception not the norm, I choose to not try and denigrate the gender in a hunt and report for the worst side of things. In a dangerously divisive era, some people relish in painting themselves as professional victims and divide further. Women seem to be giddy with these endless putdowns, and yet they wonder why many men want nothing to do with them.
8
I'm a late 50s heterosexual guy who's been active on Bumble for several months, and so have some boots on the ground experience with all this. My key takeaways
(1) A lot of women also say they want "No Drama." Maybe it's a lot vs even more a lot, but it's still a lot.
(2) This is just pocket change. It tells me the woman still has a sore spot with respect to something from a previous relationship, but at my age we all have some sore spots.
(3) More serious OMG! territory: the number of times I come across terms like "old-fashioned chivalry" and "knight in shining armor." Can't we just talk about common courtesy, thoughtfulness and politeness on both sides?
(4) In Bumble, once a "connection" is made with "likes" sent both ways, the woman has to write first. Basic Bumble ground rules. My experience: 90% of the time she never writes. Of the 10% where she does, 90% are messages consisting of a single word, usually "Hi" or "Hello."
I've asked women I know and have met in the on-line dating world about this, and invariably I get the same basic answer: "Well you're the guy so you need to be the one taking charge. I really don't like that Bumble requires me to write first so it's just going to be the bare minimum. Then it's up to you."
(5) MUST LOVE DOGS. Yep, in all caps just like that. Presented as the single most important attribute sought. I'll take the ridiculous fantasy of a "No Drama" relationship any day over being required to love dogs.
2
Your comment is the reason why, finding myself single again in my 50's, I am perfectly happy having my fun and sending him home. "Breakfast? Sure, the deli down the corner will pack up a bagel for you to take to your home". Already raised all the kids I needed to raise and life is too short to be a nurse or a purse for the next phase of my life. Pity the young women who taken on a middle age men.
3
When I would go for my regular run/jog and return after an hour, sweaty - it was proof that I actually visited prostitutes. When I scheduled a visit to a pub with a male friend - it was proof that we were actually looking to pick up women (of course she was free to out with her friends any time she wanted, as often as she wanted). When I washed the dishes, it was proof that I was showing her that she was a poor housewife; if I did not wash the dishes - I was a lazy chauvinist. When I played with our child - I was trying to alienate his affections vis-avis her, etc., etc.,etc.
As far as I am concerned: No.more.drama.
If that offends Ms Hilgers and friends - so be it. Saves my time and emotional sanity.
11
Wait, wait, wait.....the author wanted to know what men meant when they said 'no drama'.....so she asked a woman!?
Please, ask yourself how this would have gone down if the situation was flipped.
Now, I can't speak for any of these men who want 'no drama'. Some are probably as bad as the commenters assume. Others are probably just sick of profile and first dates of people just looking for someone to help with their 12 kids while they wait for their man to get out of prison.....
For better or worse, a lot of online dating is filtering the psychos, and that's probably what 'no drama' is, at least in some cases. I don't think this is a winning strategy (at all!), but I can understand why some people choose to put that (unfortunate) foot forward.
3
Every relationship is going to have problems.
However, I can do without histrionics, unrealistic imperatives, and fulminating.
I think one can avoid bad things by looking for a commonality of values. More times than not you can discover this by inquiring about history, how they grew up, and evolved.
If you're on the same page, then mild drama once in a while is forgivable.
You can then describe it as Grandpa Jones did, "Merely foolish."
2
No drama relationships are possible. I know because I have been in one for over a decade. My relationships before this one - not so much. And what a relief and joy it has been to experience. Did we face life challenges together? Absolutely. Huge losses? Certainly. Do we have disagreeents sometimes. You bet. But we dont raise our voices, yell, scream, throw things, pitch fits, or any of that nonsense that you would hopefully not tolerate from others in your life’. Hollywood has brainwashed everyone, apparently included, that drama and relationships are somehow normal. I am here to tell you that they are not. My home with my wife is a peaceful sanctuary, where we support each other and deal with conflict respectfully, rationallly, and with love. We both have no tolerance for drama and our lives are much better because of it.
3
Would love to hear what the other side of this relationship has to say.
Bravo! And what I find amusing is that when guys on dating sites say they want NO DRAMA! ...all written in caps...one has to wonder, who is the person with the drama?!
2
The author doesn’t understand what the phrase means. Some of us have no interest in intense emotional outbursts on a daily basis. Conflict is fine but it’s the histrionics that we can do without.
5
A basic requirement of no “bunny boiling”, a sense of humor and a sense of perspective bother the author and the easily offended less? I think this is what most men/ people fear when they say “no drama”.
Ps. Bunny boiling as Glenn Close in fatal attraction.
4
I dated someone who told me eight times in our first (and only) month together that we "needed to talk." I married someone with a no-nonsense attitude that rarely gets ruffled by anything. "No drama" could just mean "no overly dramatic people." I get that.
3
The author should have consulted the urbandictionary definition of "drama" before undertaking this article:
"A way of relating to the world in which a person consistently overreacts to or greatly exaggerates the importance of benign events. Typically 'drama' is used by people who are chronically bored or those who seek attention. People who engage in 'drama' will usually attempt to drag other people into their dramatic state, as a way of gaining attention or making their own lives more exciting."
4
@Rocky Covers it really well.
For those of a certain age, this sounds remarkably like Erika Jong’s (paraphrased) “Zipless Intercourse” as described in her book “Fear of Flying” from the mid-1970s.
What goes around comes around; only now we have dating apps to facilitate the process.
And, yes, many men still want “simply” a physical relationship, with none of that other stuff.
2
This author has made a wild and irrational leap when she assumes "no drama" means "no problems or feelings". No one believes they will find a partner with no problems or feelings. To take an example from the beginning of this article, "No drama" means you don't want a partner who after a bad day at work comes home and picks a fight with you for no reason and then finally blows up at you and says "CAN'T YOU SEE I HAD A BAD DAY?" "No drama" means no passive aggressive acquiescence to going to visit you mother instead of just saying "I want to stay home this time, you can go". "No drama" means not flip-flopping six times about what you want to do this weekend and then just cancelling everything. "No drama" means no snooping through email and no jealousy of exes. 'No drama' really just means "I want someone who can communicate like an adult".
5
These people should be more concerned about the engine and less about the paint job.
5
Sorry folks, the best guarantee for “no drama” is “stay single.”
3
I think the existence of this article is proof that the “attractive middle-aged man” wrote his profile well, and it worked just as he intended.
6
This kind of article winds me up (a bit). The topic is about something I hadn't previously heard of, so yes, it's news to me. But as far as I'm concerned, a true journalist would go deeper into the issue in order to find truth. Why not just ask a random sampling of men and women (that are on dating websites) what they believe the term 'no drama' means? - that's right, get some data points.
All I take from this article is that, possibly:
1. Some men and women are control freaks
2. The term has become a fad
Clear as mud.
4
Organic drama = good
Manufactured drama = bad
Sounds like a good diet to me.
3
"No drama" can also mean not making mountains out of everyday mole hills. It can also mean that when one gets hit by negative emotion, one first looks inside themselves for answers as opposed to pointing their finger everywhere else. Low-drama people take emotional responsibility for themselves, high-drama people blame everyone and everything else for their immature relationship with themselves, and wait for the world to avail them of their negative emotions. I don't think there is anything wrong with seeking a semi-self-realized person who manages their life, their mind, and their emotions. Maybe instead of advertising and demanding "low drama" they should seek "emotional maturity" or some other phrase that focuses on a positive aspect.
3
It’s very simple: please don’t burden me with your problems.
Let’s create our very own positive experiences and happiness. When you complain and whine, that’s “drama.”
Life’s short. Happiness is better than ‘drama.’
If you want an actual definition of “no drama,” (by the way it’s not only for dating) here it is:
When we get together, bring something good to the table: a good story, a good bottle of wine, a good book, a good movie suggestion, a good restaurant suggestion, a nice vacation story, something nice that happened at work, a nice thought about your ex (imagine that) if you must mention your ex, anything positive.
If you need a shrink, no problem, go get help, don’t drop it on me. Remember we don’t have much downtime, so let’s lift each other up when we get together.
When you constantly drop your “drama” on me, you’re mentally molesting me.
If I have to constantly listen to your problems, then it’s not really a productive relationship.
You’re article is an affirmation to those who constantly complain about what’s wrong with the world.
Focus on WHAT’S RIGHT WITH THE WORLD.
There are so many good things to focus on.
3
I find it funny that when you went to find out what men mean when they say they want a No Drama Relationship, you ask 2 women.
How would they know?
5
I learned by age twenty that some people just like to fight. They find mutual love and respect boring. I avoid them.
4
Amusing article and as so often its missing the point. As many of the commenters pointed out asking a random sociologist - a woman no less - and a feminist instead of some actual subjects of your inquiry does illicit a hearty chuckle. Also I must have missed the point in time where we all collectively decided feminists in and of themselves are quotable experts in ... anything? When you are a hammer, everything appears as sexist ... erm, a nail.
If this article proofs anything, it´s that putting "no drama" in your profile is a sure way to turn away the exact kind of people you don´t want in your inbox.
3
No drama can mean anything, from:
I don't need a drama queen/king who will turn every single disappointment/disagreement into a mountain and complain for hours or days about it,
through: I don't want someone who loves a vigorous argument over every little thing,
or: I don't want someone who will blow up at the slightest disappointmen/disagreement,
to: I am absolutely not interested into what happened to you during the day even if you had a bad one and needed a little comprehension and a hug.
Not knowing which is which, just swipe left.
As for those writing no drama, writing 'even tempered' 'enjoy quite discussions'.... Might be more positive.
1
"But when heterosexual men say they’re looking for something “drama-free,” I suspect they want something that doesn’t exist: a problem-free partnership with someone who has no life experience. Are they looking for a woman who never gets angry or afraid or sad, who never worries about her family or struggles in her job?
"I spoke with Jessica Carbino, a sociologist in LA who specializes in online dating and who used to work for Bumble. She told me that when men in their 20s and 30s say they want something drama-free, they’re looking for women who are “lower maintenance.”
PFFT. Mr. Valenti has it wrong.
People who post such phrasing aren't looking to a relationship that requires give and take, shared experiences.
I know. I dated more than a dozen strictly gay men who needed a female-shield at business events or dinners. I was busy working on my career educaution which didn't have a second of time committed to any other person's love interests problems. I needed to be home by midnight so I could take the babysitter home, and then catch 4 hours of sleep before my 12 hour day began. I needed the income, the clothes, non-attachement in order to support my 3 small children whose father had vanished in the night. Meanwhile, the guys needed a cover for being a respectable business entrepreneurs during the 80's.
When a heterosexual is writing they don't want drama, what they mean is "I want sex the way I want it when I want it and I don't owe you a second thought, ever."
1
And that is why you see so many middle age men preying on young women because they know middle age women know better that to put up with middle age male non-sense.
1
Along with some minor examples of drama- fender benders and the like- the author also mentioned drug addiction and checking friends into rehab. I know it happens and you have to deal with it, but can't blame people for wanting to avoid it. If I was considering dating someone and they had a bunch of friends with heavy addiction problems, I might think twice. There is drama and there is Drama (like, too much).
So ... Vanessa Valenti, says “I think it’s pretty sexist,” she told me. “I think there are unrealistic expectations put on women to be accommodating at all times in their relationships.”
BUT ... the men who want "no drama" (like we don't have a RIGHT to define what we want?) are saying EXACTLY THAT ... we are sick of accommodating your expectations Vanessa.
1
Try being under 6ft on Tinder then you will see true bias. I am not, but that is the cutoff for 90% of women on there.
1
Your comment just told us why: most short men have serious self-esteem issues and a huge chip on their shoulders that they can't get over. And dog help the woman who is more successful than him.
1
The "woman who never gets angry or afraid or sad, who never worries about her family or struggles in her job" is a plastic doll and the men that want it/her can purchase if from certain web sites. Its main function will not be discussed in a family newspaper.
1
Here is an idea - forget silly on-line dating apps. Go out into the real world, meet real people and see if you like them.
No drama doesn’t mean no problems ever. It means no jealousy, no having to tease out “what’s wrong?”when the answer is “nothing!”, no air of entitlement, no having to have the same argument over and over and over again, no revisiting things you’ve apologized for already multiple times. That’s drama. Most men don’t want it. If that’s not OK with you, keep swiping left.
1
If I care about you, I care about your feelings. If I am to care about you, I need to know that you will not hold your feelings hostage in order to manipulate me. I need to know that your feelings come from real causes not from a decision to be strategically and irrationally over-sensitive. I mean, I have worked hard to get myself into a place where my feelings are reasonable rather than debilitating. Why would I then throw that away to throw in my lot with someone who chooses to enslave me to their own lack of self control?
I wonder what direction the column would have taken if, when you wondered what some men meant when they said “no drama,” you had asked them.
Had you asked me I’d have said it was short for “no unnecessary or manufactured drama.” Had you told me you were planning to ask Jessica what she thought I’d have thought that made sense.
Had you told me you were planning to ask Vanessa what she thought I’d have thought that that sounded like a good way to come up with a column that was itself an example of unnecessary or manufactured drama. And I wonder now whether you’d accept the sorts of conclusory and insulting statements about the other gender you attributed to Vanessa, without demanding evidence and further argument, had they been spoken by some guy sounding off about women.
1
If you go to a gay site its very common to see "no drama". This has nothing to do with commitment but rather means, "I don't want to date a drama queen".
Our president is a drama queen. He creates chaos when none is warranted. He has no emotional stability and makes life difficult for everyone around him.
My mother was a drama queen. I can remember police dragging her off in straight jackets because of her drama. She was married 4 times and not one guy stayed around very long. The longest was 3 years and mostly he drank himself into oblivion every night just to tolerate her.
We have a couple of "drama queens" in my building. One young gal is constantly getting into screaming matches on the streets, with nearby shopkeepers, neighbors, etc. I came home one night and there she was in the lobby crying while speaking with two police officers. Who knows what it was this time. I joked with a young guy living in the building with his family (mom, sisters, their kids) and suggested he get an apartment with her. His answer? "She's too loud".
We had another lady in the building. One day, I heard screaming outside that sounded ready to pull out the guns. She was yelling at some guy who was leaving the complex. She kept screaming, he would shout something back, and then quiet. I told the maintenance man later about the "drama" he missed. He laughed and said that she was gone. U.S. Marshalls came and took her away.
This is the meaning of "no drama".
1
See "it's not about the nail" on you tube. Sums it up nicely.
Could you not do the most elementary research? Almost every woman on Bumble says she's drama-free and wants "no drama."
Don't let reality get in the way of your writing, though.
3
Wants to know what men mean by "no drama."
Asks women.
5
If someone says "no drama," does that mean he'll dump you if you get sick or injured? Who wants someone who won't be there for you in the hard times?
I’m married. Some weeks it’s like 10 years in dog years and some weeks feels like “omg where did time go?” - It’s part of things. Parents die, jobs change, cancer happens, step kids are doing great, jobs are successful, you are unhappy at work, you are happy at work- all this happens, it’s not drama and we know that. Emotions are fine and great, emotions in check are far better, being the daughter of a bipolar parent, I get it.
But I digress, we were discussing “no drama”, here is my humble suggestion for anyone - maybe change the language to “no theatrics”. Most men understand emotion and are ok with it - see list above. I suspect what most people don’t want is the theatrics, for example friend dated this girl who was likely a champion glass flinger, by the end of the relationship he had two wine glasses left. Every time she would get mad she would throw a glass against the floor or a wall (when he brought her to dinner I had second thoughts about using crystal glasses). I think he would be a candidate for writing “no theatrics” for the next one. BTW - Men are not the emotional cripples some feminists seem to think. Maybe some don’t have the language dexterity, or they just want some hot sex after a sexless marriage, however if they were to write that I’m sure people would also be offended.
2
This is a misunderstanding. "No drama" means not crazy, involved in multiple relationships, substance abuse, overly possessive, or jealousy mind games.
2
This is a guy thing? Literally 100% of any online ad I see that a woman says "no drama" on it.
I mean, if we're talking about cliches in online ads, it's "no drama", "Not looking to hook up", and the puppy dog snapchat filter.
1
Everything about online dating is a cliche wrapped in a fantasy. No one risks being vulnerable or revealing- probably with good reason- they’d likely never get a date. So, yes, men asking for a drama free mate is silly and vague, but women have their silly expectations too. Both men and women are judging each other based on a few ( usually photoshopped) pictures and a mostly over optimistic and limited self-portrait. What could possibly go wrong ?
1
What they really mean is they want sex without emotion. Any guy who says otherwise is just pretending he is sensitive...I would agree that any man who uses this phrase is to be avoided at all costs.
2
Sadly, well-intended but off the the mark.
No drama speaks to a desire for emotional control. Here, “control” is the capacity not to splatter your partner so that he or she becomes collateral damage. Feeling sad in sad times? Fine. Asking for support in sad times? The heart of a relationship. Drawing the other person into your suffering. Drama!
2
As a man, seriously? Who says that? I'm really wondering at the sample size here of men who do this It sounds kind of weak.
I don't really understand a woman's perspective here, but from the man's side, I don't know any man, not one, who 'expects' or says they are 'looking for' a 'no-drama' relationship, but maybe that's also because I wouldn't use a dating app if it smacked me in the face.
Maybe that's the problem, eh? Trying to reduce dating to a list of items you want, rather than finding out who someone is face to face? Try that whether you are a man or a woman.
Bet it works better. But oh no, it takes work! You know, like a relationship always does....
76
@D Collazo Face to face meetings in person are certainly preferable to online dating for many people. However, it's not as easy to strike up a conversation with strangers or acquaintances anymore. People are very focused on the their phones and the the tiny worlds they inhabit inside and aren't willing to look up and see who is next to them. I used to be able to stop into a bar in NYC for a drink and strike up a conversation with anyone sitting next to me or the bartender. Now people think you are weird if you, a fellow citizen, try to speak to them in a public space. So many missed opportunities by swiping while possibly sitting next to the love of your life or new best friend.
15
@D Collazo
Thank you for your response! Loved all of it -- a breath of (masculine) fresh air. I agree about the inefficiency and strangeness of using lists to "screen" human beings. The more that approach to getting someone is taken, the more people, sex, and relationships are viewed and used as commodities (which they certainly are by the makers of the apps).
4
@D Collazo
Thank you for your response! Loved all of it -- a breath of (masculine) fresh air. I agree about the inefficiency and strangeness of using lists to "screen" human beings. The more that approach to getting to know someone is taken, the more people, sex, and relationships are viewed and used as commodities (which they certainly are by the makers of the apps).
Great observations. It strikes me, however, that “no drama” is the perfect fantasy for app daters (men) looking for an extracurricular affair.
A friend of mine coined that he wants to “keep it light” with his extramarital fling because he gets too much drama at home with the three kids, the Bernese Mountain dog, the mounting bills, the in-laws and the wife addicted on SRRI and benzodiazepine.
Like my friend, many of these daters have one thing in common: they’re unashamedly self-serving.
3
Can't "no drama" be another way to say that some heterosexual men seek partners to provide sexual gratification and little to nothing else?
"But according to Tinder, which looked at the profiles of its American users earlier this year, heterosexual men were three times more likely to use these phrases than heterosexual women. Profiles of gay and lesbian users included the phrases much less often."
I can't speak for lesbian users of Tinder, but I feel that quite a few gay men would never bother to specify "no drama," because for various reasons they neither intend nor aim to establish stable relationships.
1
@john
If men can have those kinds of relationships “without strings attached” why wouldn’t they take them?
The fact that women are so perplexed explains both that there are differences, profound differences, between men and women; and it makes a bit of sense why some simply choose homossxuality, depending on how they tilt on the axis of friendship love and erotic love.
No drama works for more men than ever. Simply look at the age of first marriage, the declining rate of marriage, and the divorce rate.
This is apparently not working out so well, for anyone.
1
She’s got it all wrong. “No drama” means no hysteria over hangnails. No making mountains out of molehills. I’ve seen plenty of life—the good stuff and the bad, and talk about it all; I don’t sweep it under the rug. But I deal with it calmly, rationally and thoughtfully. Men want peace and calm in their lives. Having a non-drama partner as a best friend, partner and lover helps make life go so much better. That’s what men want.
13
@Andrew Wonderfully put.
There are emotions and communication and there's drama. The two aren't remotely the same thing.
Honestly, I think the author of this piece is doing these men a favor if she's avoiding them, and she can't distinguish between drama and a healthy relationship between adults.
171
As some other commenters have noted, the definition of "drama" is subjective, and that definition will be based on a person's past experience. Having myself endured a painful divorce in which mental illness and addiction were factors, my bar for what's dramatic is very high. I wouldn't again want that kind of drama. For another person, it might mean simply that they don't want someone whose reactions to situations are so emotional or distorted that they aren't commensurate with the triggering event. Or they may not want someone who catastrophizes, globalizes or is unstable under pressure. Who knows? Personally, I welcome emotions and would much rather face life's difficulties with a partner. But I know exactly what kind of drama I don't want--the kind that makes facing life's difficulties much more difficult--and if I see that red flag waving, I'm walking the other way.
70
Only someone who has suffered with a drama queen's (or King's) neurotic, cloying mood swings would appreciate the caution with which someone would clearly request comparable spirits need not apply. It's horrible and you know who you are: Unresolved childhood issues in full bloom. High maintenance is exactly that; not normal maintenance, which is perfectly acceptable, dental visits and family problems included.
Sounds like the author may be a handful. Thanks for the warning.
253
Perfectly said, Jay. I call them chaos creators. They take all our energy to calm and to clean up the emotional messes they create. And then a half hour later act as if nothing happened. Some of us had a parent like that or a spouse or a relationship like that. Chaos creators not only demand more of our time, but also often demand we have their emotions for them. So they create dramas where we react with the emotions they can’t have: frustration, anger, resentment, even the hurt and painful feelings that they themselves can’t feel. They exhaust others while they sleep like babies.
A drama-free marriage is really easy: it takes 2 people, age 22 or 82, who know who they are and deeply care for and believe in the other’s goodness and talents. And who love to laugh. Something drama creators rarely do.
29
Just being able to take a deep breath to avoid over reacting.... that to is ‘no drama’ to me.
3
@Jay Stephen
And if they don't have any drama they will create some! I call them pot stirrers.....and they can be fun and charismatic at first but they wear on you.
1
My husband of 25 years had a firm distaste for “domestic drama” through his own long-term emotional affair, his ongoing flirtations with other women, and his embarking on a new relationship with his current wife while I thought we were still very married.
I realized too late that what he meant was he didn’t want to deal with any drama related to my feelings, but he was free to create very painful drama to satisfy his own.
Life is much better without his brand of “no drama.”
187
@Mary McCue
"didn't want to deal with any drama related to my feelings"
glad you are done with him.
This reminds me a bit of a relative of mine, who always says to me "don't stress about it -- things will work out" when things only work out when I or another actually take action (action that is all the more stressful because we're undermined by those determined not to stress about it).
22
@Mary McCue
His brand of "no drama"
Such a person should be upfront about this in his profile. Words to the effect of: "I'm looking for a loving relationship in which I can date other women and not hear about it when I get home,"
11
@Mike Edwards
This made me laugh...thank you.
2
The author doesn't seem to understand drama in the same sense that the men in these dating apps do.
Drama isn't about not having emotions or being with an emotionless partner. Who would want that? Everyone wants joy and passion, and understand that sadness and grief are normal attendants in life. The "No Drama" crowd seems instead to be asking for partners who are not ruled by their emotions; they accept their emotions, they feel them, but they do not allow emotional thinking to dominate them. They are, in other words, reasonable people.
Reason. For centuries it used to be one of humanity's greatest attributes, yet in recent times we seem to have fallen for the seductive appeal of emotional thinking. What we feel matters more than what we think.
I wish everyone the best of luck in finding a relationship that is drama free.
458
@John My observation is that people who cast themselves as "reasonable" (or worse, "rational") are just as ruled by emotion as anyone else. In truth, they are just less skilled at recognizing and handling their emotions. Because they are convinced of their own reasonableness, they then conclude that what they feel must be what is "right" and "true", and anyone with a different reaction must be wrong. Needless to say, this destroys any chance of a mutually respectful relationship and leads to a lot of--yes--drama.
41
@John makes a good argument. Most people would not prefer a high drama relationship but understand that drama will eventually come. That's part of being in a relationship...once you actually have one!
BUT...the new nature of the internet...has allowed people to offload on people they have never met. So you are not looking into their eyes, regarding their body language...you are getting emails about their "drama" and really you just don't know who they are.
So if it's so cheap and easy to email your problems to a "profile", then the value of empathy to be received on the other side (either sex) drops quickly.
2
@John
If that's what you want, then you should state it explicitly. It is not reasonable to assume that everyone knows precisely what you mean by "no drama" or other simplified catch phrase.
In my observation, most relationship drama is caused by poor communication. This essay illustrates that "no drama" is open to a wide range of interpretation. Expecting your partner to know precisely what you mean by it is not reasonable.
8
For as long as I can remember people have been telling me I'm smart because I never married. I don't know, maybe it's just that I'm lucky. The no drama relationships I've had ended just as quickly as the drama laden. Could be that I never made a lot of money, but whatever. I'm happy being oblivious, insensitive, self centered and free. As someone once said, "Freedom is above the price of Ruby."
10
I think they're saying "Neurotics need not apply." There are a lot of neurotics out there, perhaps in concentration on the dating apps (I don't know, that's an assumption I probably shouldn't make). But there are a lot of neurotics out there. New York, Los Angeles, big cities are where they go when Smalltown USA can't deal with them.
79
@JimBob
Bingo.
Maybe the author would like to meet a guy who says that throwing dishes and having screaming fights over small issues is most acceptable, but if so she is exceptional.
6
@JimBob But you'd have to be pretty ridiculous to think that people you'd call Dramatic ever see themselves as such.
2
There is a difference between (all) men and some men. People are different. Men, women, children etc. And the differences change over a lifetime, from experiences and aging.
So please, knock off this madness of generalizing that looks like All A are B, when the reality is soma A are B. Or don't. If you like to stereo type groups of people, in some situations that is described as racism or sexism. But when a person righteously says all A are B, there is an ism here somewhere.
Part of the problem is many people like simple solutions to complex problems, or they are binary thinkers. Such is life.
Best of luck sorting through what I think is the wide variety of people to find people you like.
A comment about drama personalities. Some people like attention, some people feel that dramatic moments are great ways to express feelings and gain attention and results. I think drama works sometimes. Sometimes it doesn't. My dog doesn't like drama. He has a simple approach, play, eat, sleep, and get attention. Works for him!
16
I am happily married and met my wife before dating apps were in vogue. I am not a content area expert.
However, I’m going to echo the other cys gendered Hetero-sexual men on here in saying that while “no drama” may be misogynistic it is not necessarily misogynistic in the same way you are interpreting it to be.
If I wrote that, I would probably mean I didn’t want to deal with the kind relationship I had with a serious girlfriend in college where I perceived her to need tons of support to do things and she seemed to pick fights with me for what I think were dumb reasons when I failed to provide it. She and I agree (now that we’re both married to different people) that our relationship was horrifically bad and moderately emotionally abusive, though I’m not sure we would agree on why.
If I were trying to short hand what this dynamic looked like from my perspective (on say a dating app) I might describe it as dramatic. I would agree that is somewhat misogynistic in that it assumes the problem with my bad relationship was her feelings and not my laziness or fundamentally divergent interests, but it is expressly not an objection to dating a real person with real feelings. Rather, it is about how those feelings are managed.
74
@Mark Except that as a man that would like to avoid certain dynamics, can't you not intuit that from things written in the ad? Do they not understand that Drama people do not see themselves that way? That's part of what causes the "drama". Plus most men that write "no drama" also follow it up with "no fatties", so there's another thing they're not willing to do- be mature and simply skip over someone who does not appeal to them without insulting them. so, yeah, misogyny.
1
The author suggests the drama associated with Romeo and Juliet, or the plot of Casablanca, would be worth enduring to be part of such an intense relationship.
Personally, I have no desire to take part in a double suicide amid feuding families, nor live through a Nazi occupation and all that goes with that, no matter how I felt about a prospective partner. If specifying "no drama" would help me avoid those situations, sign me up. The author and I clearly have different ideas of what makes for a good and healthy relationship.
4
The last man I dated liked drama. I did not. It is over. Challenges in life are different than drama.
2
"This precariousness seems like all the more reason to find a partner who can face the challenges and roll with them. "
Well, yeah -- and isn't that exactly what no drama means? Seems to me the author of this piece has completely misconstrued the meaning of that phrase. "No drama" does not mean emotionally stunted or unavailable -- it means being mature enough to respond appropriately to things, to refrain from blowing things out of proportion.
3
I take the term to mean the way people react to life issues that inevitability come up. I’m a low drama person because I don’t dramatise problems or create them where none exist. I would look for the same in a partner and would happily swipe on someone ‘drama free’
2
I suspect that many men on dating sites are seeking a purely physical relationship.
Some may want to move cautiously into the realm of emotional ties because they’ve just been through a divorce and aren’t ready to jump back into that level of emotional intensity. Men can separate physical from emotional more easily than women, as any man will confirm.
Don’t judge too harshly. Men want love too. Testosterone gets in the way sometimes.
10
Consider the former US President oft nicknamed "No Drama" Obama, and the current creature in that office who is "All Drama, All the Time".
Which personality type would *you* rather be in a relationship with?
If you admit that there is indeed a distinction there, then you pretty much have to concede that it's not an unreasonable trait to look for in a partner.
9
My favorite is demanding total transparency and honesty. No one can ever know what another person is thinking or feeling. We all need boundaries and autonomy. And being of an older age I prefer to date younger men so I fudge on my age on the dating site to change the algorithm a bit. The outrage! I get from these men who look ten years older than their age, with skinny legs and pot bellies, who fudge on their height, their fitness, you name it. And don't get me started on how needy men get as they age.
1
I would expect most people would agree that they are not in search of at outcome like the ending of Romeo and Juliet, Brokeback Mountain, or Casablanca
1
I don't see the request for a "drama-free" relationship as misogynist at all. As a woman I too want relationships that are "drama-free," whether friendship or romantic. I have seen my share of drama addicts -- people who seek out drama, and make a big show of their emotions all the time, almost all of them women and I want nothing to do with them.
1
In my experience with online dating, the men who wrote something about “no drama” in their profiles tended to be really chaotic and dramatic themselves. I always figured that these guys didn’t have much insight into their own contributions to the relationship drama in their lives, and instead attributed it to the women they dated.
1
My favorite is demanding total transparency and honesty. No one can ever know what another person is thinking or feeling. We all need boundaries and autonomy. And being of an older age I prefer to date younger men so I fudge on my age on the dating site to change the algorithm a bit. The outrage! I get from these men who look ten years older than their age, with skinny legs and pot bellies, who fudge on their height, their fitness, you name it. And don't get me started on how needy men get as they age.
I start every date w/ "I'm sorry" a generally open ended statement That addresses the inevitable foot in the mouth. I'm not convince you can be funny or interesting w/out offending most people most of the time, I live alone my dog died.
“I think there are unrealistic expectations put on women to be accommodating at all times in their relationships.”
Yes, exactly this. "No drama" to these men means women never get to have problems, air concerns, have any sort of emotion if it's in any way bothersome for the man. It's deeply sexist.
1
"No drama" is not a phrase in my vocabulary but if it were, it wouldn't encompass things like deaths, divorces, lost homes, and addictions.
It's more like not having to hear my wife rant for 5 straight minutes about how our neighbor cut a branch off her favorite bush that's not actually in our yard, or how the other neighbor left their dogs outside on a hot day.
2
“I swipe left to indicate my disinterest”
“I swipe left every time.”
How convenient.
I have never used a dating app - maybe because I’ve been married for . . . Since 1992. And back then there were “dating” advertisement in the papers, but mostly for the 40 crowd.
What people say about themselves, or don’t say, is probably not a very good indicator of who they really are, any more than what a perfectly posed picture indicates what they really look like.
Sometimes it’s the opposite.
So if someone chooses to say he/she doesn’t want drama, they probably already have a lot of drama. And if someone choses to say that they are looking for drama, my guess is their bored.
And what about someone who “swipes left every time” a dating prospect says they don’t want drama?
I’m not a psychologist, but my guess is that such a person doesn’t want anyone who already has too much drama, and therefor won’t take the time to appreciate his/her drama.
Question for the author: am I right? (Feel free to swipe to the next comment - I’ll never know.)
For many men "drama free" means authentically kind, not completely selfish and capable of reciprocity in love and caring.
1
Drama as postulated here represents a feeling or emotion self-stimulated, self-imposed...and definitely poisonous if repeated too often.
1
You are correct to swipe left on these people. The expression "no drama" when it comes to dating is a standard cliché that people with narcissistic personality disorder use. What it really means is "be compliant." It's setting up an expectation as a manipulation tactic in a relationship. Meanwhile, while dating someone, they are cooking up drama like crazy with lies, manipulation, affairs, deceit, etc. And the expectation is that you accept it all without complaint. To a narcissist, "drama" is the reaction to bad behavior, which in itself is, to them, neutral, just facts - actions to which they feel entitled and you must passively accept. Their last partner probably complained, which was too "dramatic" for them, so now they're looking for someone more compliant.
YouTube is a treasure trove of analyses of narcissistic abuse in relationships. You will hear the "no drama" cliché over and over and over in these scenarios (all narcissists are extremely similar in their tactics). So yeah, if you hear someone say "no drama," just run.
3
I wish the author had done a bit more legwork and talked to some no-drama-seeking men to see what they meant by “no drama.” Instead, she writes: “When heterosexual men say they’re looking for something “drama-free,” I suspect they want something that doesn’t exist: a problem-free partnership with someone who has no life experience.” I also see women who write they are looking for no drama, and I suspect that they want to avoid someone who has a bad temper, is highly opinionated, wants to argue and is generally difficult and high maintenance. Or maybe not. Of course, I don’t know because I’ve never done the reporting to clear up the semantic fog that enshrouds that expression. I merely suspect it. Why not interview them to find out what they mean instead of asking a sociologist what they suspect. Wouldn’t it be more accurate and fair to ask people directly what they mean and then report that? Maybe different people mean different things when they use that expression. Who knows what you’d find? That’s the amazing thing about firsthand reporting: your initial idea could be proven wrong. Or right.
1
Some women, like some men, are simply not centred, grounded individuals.
If a man says he wants a no drama relationship, I interpret that as meaning he wants a grounded person.
Nothing wrong with that.
As a woman, I concur. That is what I want in a man too.
2
Much ado about nothing here, and certainly nothing sexist - let’s not make every dating issue into a form of sexism. As Thomas Gibson below says, “drama free” means mature enough to recognize ones own issues and not play them out on a partner. End of story.
3
I think we are overthinking this. When a man says he wants a “no drama” relationship, he means he wants a mainly sexual connection, maybe with some laughs and drinks before and/or after coitus. “Relationship” is highly misleading. I say this as a man in a very happy 52 marriage with a woman I love deeply. What I have with my wife is a relationship filled with drama (eg kids and the death of parents). But men have to reach a certain point in their lives to realize that what they want is actually the drama. If you are a woman ready for drama, realize that this is a life attitude men have to grow into. And many men will never be ready for it.
Maybe it's just me, but I tend to be attracted to people who tell me what they want, not what they don't want. So negative!
2
Counterpoint: A LOT of humans - man or woman - are immature, unstable, self-destructive and frankly exhausting.
I'm a woman - passionate. smart, emotionally engaged - but I don't like 'drama' either. From my husband or friends. I love vulnerability, emotional intimacy, connection, humor.
But I see drama reflective of immature traits - friends who constantly date the worst men (pass the age of 30), a guy who is not in control of his anger, or his finances, someone who is constantly changing jobs - chaos resulting of poor choices. I can't.
Real life happens - teen kids crash a car, parents get sick, pets die - that's the real drama we face and are there to share and lift up.
But too many people live in manufactured chaos and it's not fun. Or reliable foundation to build a life on.
2
There are people of both genders who definitely exhibit high levels of drama. Out of a preferred item at a store? It's a national disaster. Traffic was slow because of an accident? A major problem for them.
I see nothing wrong with preferring to meet someone who doesn't over-react to every little thing. It doesn't mean they're heartless or uncaring. There are real problems that need to be dealt with; that's no problem. But minor things that drive some people nuts? That's drama and what many want to avoid.
1
When a guy stipulates "drama free" on tinder he's telling you - he doesn't want a relationship. He simply wants someone pleasant to sleep with, nothing more. He doesn't want to hear about your day. He doesn't want any obligations. He doesn't want a partner. He doesn't want to share his life with you, period. Its that simple.
2
I know exactly what “no drama” means having experienced drama queens. One was a gay friend that would call me crying about how his one night stand who he instantly fell in love with never called him again. When he was frequently drinking, he would call and heap abuse on many of his friends, including me. More than once I had to block his number.
He was a good friend otherwise but died at 55 alone because he was more than anyone could deal with. Constant drama is exhausting.
What I mist want to avoid is the narcissistic types. Highly intelligent and manipulative who pretend to be low maintenance and put all the difficulties on others.
It has taken me a long time to recognize these dangers. They often seem "successful" but at the expense if the people they have used/are using.
My own difficulty in recognizing men like this has kept me from dating for many years.
As a single, middle aged man who wants a "drama-free" relationship, I'm surprised at how wrong the author got this one. When we say we want "no drama", what we mean is that we don't want a relationship with someone who manufactures drama to fill some void they have within themselves.
I've dated women who would flirt with other men in an effort to provoke a fist fight. I've dated women who were only dating to make another guy jealous. I've dated women with mental health issues that resulted in them making all sorts of false claims. I could add all of those and more to my dating profile as things I don't want, or I can just say, "No Drama!".
Well, I think this column is just plain silly. Nobody I know interprets "no drama" or "low drama" to mean that we seek an "emotionless partner who has no needs." Rather, it means we seek someone who can face life's challenges without crumbling into a heap or melting into a puddle or demanding a crazy big spotlight.
I'm 62 and in my dating profile I explained that I am the opposite of a drama queen and that I'm seeking a man who has been through enough stuff in life that he knows what's important, what isn't and can roll with whatever life throws at him. That low drama man and I found each other and have been happily together for more than a year.
1
I think when men say this, they are projecting the ennui of 50 years of women telling men they are useless beneficiaries of unearned privilege.
Most of the fight between the sexes occurs in the Top 5% of our culture. That is where the media operates. That is where the commercial battlefield for job parity and board memberships takes place.
Into this mix, we have injected sexuality unrethered from responsibility. Men are now pursued in a post-feminist age; and, sadly for the women, they are happy to take the gratuitous sexual encounter if the cost of its sustenance has been lowered to zero. So, yes, when you strip all the meaning from relationship-building, it looks like “no drama”.
I listen to millennials, like our kids, say things like “Raising kids is too much of a sacrifice” or “The Earth is not going to be around much longer” or “Men, especially White men, do not deserve any of the things they have”.
When you ask that same group for some solutions, you get a stream of gibberish that is not worth repeating. It starts with a mockery of faith that sits beneath Western Civilization and does a spin through sexual violence and the house of mirrors known as gender non-binary.
So, when we wonder about the destruction of male engagement, please drop the wonder.
The goals of women empowerment have been both admirable and also self-destructive. Sex is now largely recreational. Abortion is detached from creation. Commitment is pointing into an uncertain future.
No drama.
3
@Stuart not sure that recreational sex is a result of female empowerment, nor is abortion or commitment. This is a crazy jumble of thinking. You seem to have deep resentment that women might want equal rights--equal rights are not the cause of the world's problems.
I think you are being too judgemental with your assessment, the cliche simply means "no inappropriate drama", "no self righteous immaturity please" as men as well as women obviously want to avoid people drawn toward creating unnecessary drama, when wisdom might otherwise prevail . I enjoyed your essay, but your criticism of men that are honest and straight forward about not being interested in women that might are inclined toward escalating scenes of drama misses the point of what the men are probably trying to express. There are a lot of immature, silly, unaware people prone to drama, surely you know that.
3
I found it curious that the author kept asking women what men meant by "no drama". Why didn't she just ask some of the men who used that term, to get their definition or more clarification on what they meant by using it? Then she'd know (or at least have a better idea) by getting it from the horse's mouth, so-to-speak.
1
A comment like 'no drama' is meant to weed out those who have so much drama in their life that they believe that everyone else lives in a state of drama overload too. Yes, things happen, but some people don't want to spend all of their time pinballing between manufactured crises, with the stress constantly kicked up to 10. The comment did it's intended job - the author swiped. That's ok. Not everyone is compatible.
156
The problem is, people who are addicted to "drama" in their lives do not perceive themselves as such. Normal thinking feeling people just go about their business working through life's problems so they can experience real joy when it happens. They're the ones who will swipe left.
12
I think the author of this article is pretty different than those who manufacture their own drama to power them through life. It seems pretty unlikely that these folks would actually self-sort according to a profile request. On the other hand, the author seems like a balanced, thoughtful, emotionally mature person that you just missed out on. Maybe it's for the best, as you say.
3
@December
I have two friends who are drama queens and they are exhausting.
I completely understand someone honestly stating they want no more drama in their lives.
We all have enough stress in our lives.
5
I agree with many others: In this context, drama is not at all the same as life's difficulties.
To understand this, I urge Ms. Hilgers to revisit (or discover for the first time) the principles of transactional analysis, as entertainingly set out by psychiatrist Eric Berne in his best seller "Games People Play."
Dr. Berne recognized that what seem to be straightforward interactions between people sometimes involve an psychological transaction in which there's an emotional "pay off" for the prime player (and in the terms of our current discussion, that player is often engaging in "drama").
For example, in "Why Don't You -- Yes But" (the first transactional game that Berne identified, after noticing it frequently during party conversations) someone complains about a problem. Their friends offer helpful solutions ("Why don't you ...?"), but the person bats down each one for a seemingly rational reason ("Yes, but ...').
The game ends when the friends run out of suggestions and after a brief silence agree that the problem is probably intractable.
This is the payoff that the player has unconsciously sought all along, a validation that allows them to be keep complaining and wallowing in their difficulty -- in our terms, to keep engaging in "drama" instead of problem solving.
http://www.ericberne.com/games-people-play/why-dont-you-yes-but/
4
I feel like the author and the men she criticizes are probably each working with two different definitions of the word “drama.”
“No drama,” to me, is more like not smashing my car with a baseball bat because of misinterpreting a work email that I got from a female coworker. In other words, someone more likely to assess and discuss than react and retaliate, since I believe I am and not of the type of character to do anything that would warrant the latter two responses.
Defining terms like “drama,” or understanding someone’s idea of what they mean, is more appropriate than just swiping and writing off someone who might otherwise be a trustworthy companion.
1
If you browse the ladies’ profiles there is a wealth of negativity found in their ‘must not’ criteria. Some women express no more than a laundry list of NO’s without a single hint to whom they are or what they desire. Automatic swipe left.
1
This is not the 50's anymore. I could not give a hoot about what you think of me. I know who I am and what I want and I have and do not need to compromise just "to get a man". Yea, I am one of those with a long list of "No" because I know what I want and what I deserve , regardless of what anybody thinks of me. Best part of being middle age: no desire to compromise anymore.
“No drama” feels like shorthand for “I don’t want to deal with your feelings and emotions.” And probably because they don’t know how. There is always drama in life, from both men and women — I think these men are hypersensitive to it and and falsely believe *they* don’t bring drama to the table. I agree with the others who say swipe left and find a real man.
@Meg I agree it's part of a man's job to take care of a women's emotions, but at 62 and married for 30 years, I tend to lean towards the traditional male/female roles. The problem for most younger men is that some modern women want it both ways; destroy the old roles when it suits them, but bring them back when they play damsel in distress.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=viGgB44rxdU
>>Are they looking for a woman who never gets angry or afraid or sad,
>>who never worries about her family or struggles in her job?
No, I would say they are looking for a woman who doesn't create problems where none exist and doesn't feel entitled to make pre existing demands just because they are female.
1
It’s been my experience that men who claim to want “no drama” are the ones supplying all of it. Intolerance is a bit of an hysterical response to normal human emotions.
An interesting article, or research study, would be one in which someone actually asked these individuals what they meant when they said "drama-free." Unbelievably this essayist wrote about what she imagined they meant, and interviewed others who spoke about what they imagined these men meant. To say this is below journalistic standards would be an understatement. Actually it is beneath contempt.
I agree with most of the commenters here, that the words “no drama” from men means no melodrama over little things. And it is women who are most likely to do this. Relationship guru, John Gottman, points out that women initiate 80% of arguments. So, it is no surprise that men want “no drama.” And the end result of this “drama” is usually men sleeping on the couch. To sum up, women start the fights, and men end up on the couch. Hardly seems fair.
Commenter Jim thinks that men asking for “no drama” is misogynistic. On the contrary, I think this whole subject and the article are misandrist. Hilgers, a woman, writes an article assuming a great deal while criticizing men. She does not ask the men to clarify what they mean by “no drama.” She asks other women, including a feminist from the Feministing website to explain it. This doesn’t exactly sound like unbiased reporting to me.
But this seems to be common in the media today. Men are not allowed to have or express opinions on gender issues. When men do express an opinion, it is shunned or ignored. Only women’s opinions on gender issues are considered credible. There’s nothing like a debate where only one side is allowed to talk.
I’m sorry about your dog Spike. I can take most of life’s drama, but the last kind of drama I want to deal with is the drama of losing my dog.
2
"Drama free" is a dismissal of emotions. Women from the dawn of time have been dismissed by being told they are drama queens, crazy, too emotional, too irrational ect. It's easier for men to call them this as opposed to looking at their own behaviour and how they helped contribute to creating such a "drama" . That's what this writer is saying. These men will walk away from anything they don't want to be held accountable for, by calling the women in their lives "drama filled" That's the point. I actually think it's a great way for women to tell which guys are a waste of time, before they actually waste anytime at all.
1
While I am not sure what potential dating partners mean when they say No drama relationship after reading this article it sounds like what No drama people want is a non human for a partner. Here are some ideas for this daters: tell your would be partner "I am selfish and not interested in your feelings and needs," get a stepford wife or date Alexa.
Many men and women on dating sites have experienced a divorce in their recent past. If “drama” didn’t lead to the divorce, it very likely accompanied it.
1
I am amused by the majority of comments are assuming the author means the problem lies with males when the statistical difference is small enough I'd like to see their statistics to even draw an inference. Again, she said he said and reverse...
The author clearly has no idea what men actually mean when they write the phrase, and instead has a lot of convoluted ideas about it, when it's really very simple.
"No drama" does NOT mean you can't be sad or have a bad day or need someone to talk to about problems.
What it means is stereotypically female behavior like being mad for hours or even days but refusing to explain why (because "we" should just know!). Or hysterically screaming at your partner for hours over miniscule issues. Especially in a relationship where the partner cannot easily escape, i.e. with kids, a shared house etc.
Oh yes, of course that is all just a sexist stereotype, according to any article that would get the green light to be published in a newspaper today. Men living in the real world know better.
1
Drama free. I read it as "weak", not up to adult challenges. The kind of person who leaves when the going gets tough. No thanks.
I think the author misunderstands what “no drama” means to people. It doesn’t mean a denial of difficult times. What drama in this context refers to is: what people make who create needless external problems for others due to their inner and unresolved conflicts. I grew up in a “dramatic” sibling relationship and now have been with a mature partner for twelve years who doesn’t act out all the time. It’s bliss.
“No drama” might be interpreted as “Don’t ever criticize me or disagree.” Many men are in search of this, if experience is a guide.
Life is full of genuine drama. We don’t need to add to it with dramatic nonsense. I believe that is what “no drama” means- no dramatic nonsense.
Perhaps the reason why heterosexual men use the phrase more often than homosexual men or lesbians is because heterosexual women have a tendency to turn every small occurance into a drama.
Like a heterosexual woman writing a whole column on what’s wrong with heterosexual men based on a phrase that just some men use...
1
What concerns me the most is if this call for ‘no drama’ is a yearning for a doll instead of a person to have a relationship with.
I hope it isn’t because of screen time instead of spending time developing face-to-face interpersonal skills.
The phrase means no interest in the Don Quixote syndrome, where windmills become dragons for the want of drama.
I love how a woman asks other women what men mean by "no drama." Why doesn't the writer ask--you know--actual men who post the phrase in their online dating profiles?!
This, my dear, is EXACTLY what men are talking about: women who gossip with their girlfriends about problems, make judgements based on generalizations, tell a man he's wrong, and share their feelings with anyone who will listen (or read) rather than address the problem head on. I'm so glad I'm gay and don't have to deal with this ish on a daily basis.
3
Dear Ms. Hilgers: A no-drama relationship means one in which our girlfriend / wife does not constantly see herself as the victim of recurring crises. That’s it. You can still have tons of emotion in a relationship, and zero drama. Why? No adoption of the perpetual victim role.
3
Oh good grief. The writer has created a straw man to attack. A request for “no drama” is simply a plea for a sane and rationale partner who can discuss things calmly and doesn’t create an environment where one feels like he (or she) is walking through a mine field.
Some people thrive on gratuitous drama. Is it too much to ask to be excused from spending time with them?
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Easy. They want sex and someone to help pay dinner or the rent BUT no commitments or responsibilities. RUN from these people. "Relationship" means something to most people. The No Drama people I have met are fearful of being vulnerable and pretend not to be selfish, but care only for themselves.
Drama means jealousy, false accusations, and bickering, not legitimate life circumstances. It's meant to refer to an interpersonal dynamic not a life even my thing necessarily
This column instances 'drama.'
Don't believe me?
Check her tweets for confirmation.
1
are reading these comments and the article it just seems to me that everyone involved in this entire debate seems to think what they want and the way they are is the way everyone else should be. if the fallacy in that is not obvious then you need to improve your education.
Big difference between the normal ups and downs of life and the personal problems of individuals, and creating NEEDLESS drama, which is unfortunately what too many toxic women tend to do. Mostly the ones with privilege. There are a lot of head cases out there. Luckily I've enjoyed some wonderful "low drama" women; they're caring, mature, fun and easy to find if you're good at filtering out the ones with toxic femininity.
This writer is reading profiles and projecting her own ideas onto them. If you don't like what you read, move on. To write a whole column obsessing about it? Already a red flag.
I suspect that men who put this pre-requisite in their search profiles are looking for a potential...Stepford Wife. Such things only exist in satirical literature.
Drama – Any harsh negative actions directed from a woman to man where the man is the target of said negativity. Screaming, nagging, complaining, arguing, demands, crying “at you”, threats, ultimatums, the “silent treatment”, refusing sex because of non-medical reasons, all of these things are drama, and there are many others. Drama is not “anything negative”. Specifically, it must be harsh (sweetly lying would not be considered drama) and focused at the man (angrily complaining about her boss at work would not be considered drama). Drama is a female trait. (Men have guy-drama.)
Oh come on. Everyone knows what this means. It's a polite word for "melodrama." It's interesting to hear that the usage is chiefly heterosexual. Maybe that's because gay people have a specific term, "drama queen." Some people aren't looking for a relationship as much as a supporting cast for the scenes they create with their dysfunctions and unresolved issues. Their lives, typically, are a mess. You are correct in swiping left, for both of you.
Women: No drama means taking responsibility for your own problems and not dumping them on your partner by expecting him to solve all your problems and accept blame for everything that goes wrong in your life, big or trivial, and demanding that he be responsive to you at all times without consideration for his problems, his life, his personal sovereignty, his dignity and his interests.
Men: You overwhelmingly become involved with women because you really only want sex, but don't realize it. When you finally do, you see you've made a mistake but can't admit it. You feel guilty and inadequate for your failure to actually want to give your partner what she wants—because you really don't, and so you either get divorced of spend the rest of your life unhappy about it.
Men and women are wildly different, and incompatible, especially in modern times when women demand to be more and more like men. I don't blame them for that—they deserve parity. But it doesn't make for happy relationships. Formerly, the sexes were more willing to accept traditional roles that defined their places in a relationship— but even then there were still problems because of inherent gender incompatibility.
Over the course of my dating years, I dated drama-free women with even-keeled dispositions who were at once exciting people while also being capable of negotiating the myriad emotional complexities of life as rational adults. I also dated women who were emotional tornadoes, who left paths of random chaos, made problems where none could reasonably be expected, and presumed nefarious traits in others. The latter qualify as “drama” and anybody who says it is “mysoginistic” to prefer avoiding chaos and random strife is most likely doing a favor for the handsome-man-with-a-big-dog on the dating app by swiping left.
I am a 60 year old man. I don't want any drama with my wife, kids, or dog. I love my wife, kids and dog, but no drama.
I searched for a non-fiction movie about people and life but no drama:
- zero results
Life has drama. It gets messy. How you and a partner deal with it is what matters.
I suspect there are lots of reasons someone would say they want "no drama". Yes, some of them are just unrealistic and naive or misogynist.
However, some of them may have come from seriously dysfunctional families or other relationships with people who have personality disorders or are addicts or abusers of some kind or mentally ill or sociopaths etc. and they need to distance themselves from the extremes of drama like that.
Before I would make assumptions about the person, I would see if they show other signs of awareness that reality does include a reasonable amount of drama.
Actually, it's kind of dramatic to say "No drama" or "100% Drama Free." Seriously.
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@sfdphd
It is very dramatic! I associate the phrase with drama magnets. People who don't understand the part they play in all the drama in their lives. I don't take it as a sign of emotional stinginess as much as immaturity and sloppiness. I would expect someone who states "no drama" to deliver far more than their share.
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Frustrating piece. I completely agree with the author when she says "the kind of partner I'd like shows up for it all." But I also feel like she is drawing up battle lines that don't really make any sense or reflect a sincere attempt to understand what's happening.
For one thing, young people feel more and more anxiety about relationships. Dysfunctional, emotionally busted and prematurely aborted relationships are commonplace. I feel like she should know this, and know that it's not a "men" thing.
I also feel like she should know that when someone expresses the desire for a "drama free" relationship, they can be communicating quite the opposite of her fears. They may seek a relationship of rich mutual support where the partners don't lash out at each other in a ridiculous & destructive cycle that ends in heartbreak. "Drama free" may simply mean healthy, engaged, supportive.
Or, they could be an utterly immature man-child who wants a woman to have sex with regularly and otherwise tune out.
It is foolish to stake an entire editorial on the premise that "drama free" means "I am emotionally crippled and incapable of supporting a partner." It may just as easily mean "the last person I was with was emotionally crippled and incapable of supporting a partner, and I would like to avoid that in the future."
You can thank Tinder for the fact you'll never know.
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@Anonymous I have to agree. I think most women and men are "drama free". Yes, they have problems and conflicts that pop in life, as do I. But for the most part, they deal with them as best they can. We all get upset sometimes, but most of the time we are not actually seeking out conflict and drama; there are a few people that actually do.
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@Anonymous I would agree as well. It is possible that many of these men don't mean dramas that come from life circumstances, but the drama that is contrived by people who feel their lives are empty without it. I am struck that at no point that does Hilger try to discover, or even express real curiosity about, what these men mean. She just finds three commentators who back up her presumptions.
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@Anonymous Agree with you and those who replied. There’s a right way and a right time to express nearly anything. The ability to manage one’s emotions and especially the expression of emotions that affect those around us, are hallmarks of maturity. Sure there may be the occasional lashing out or loss of control, we are only human. And the author has every right, we all have the right to expect empathy and sympathy especially from an intimate partner. In fact I’ve experienced a very similar roster of hurts as she has. But I don’t expect any partner short or long term to stick around if I feel the need to become a verbal whirling dervish.
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Another lengthy article --- by women --- endlessly complaining about their unfair treatment by --either the world or more specifically by --- men.
The simple reason that men are looking for a 'no drama' relationship with women, is that very few men are equipped to deal with the endless emotional neediness of women. Men --- from early childhood, are brought up with strict rules about enduring pain, not being emotional, and dealing with life's issues in stoic silence and restraint.
Women, on the other hand are given free reign for every emotion conceivable. They voice every minor pain as the end of the world --- and demand that everyone around them look after them. The endless 'damsel in distress' seems to be a winning strategy --- as people --- especially men --- rush in to her rescue. But, too much of this advantage of women is overplayed and gets to be tiresome.
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It's interesting that "drama-free" exists primarily in the heterosexual ads. I'm a gay man who was fortunate with my late husband to have enjoyed a 32-year partnership that was, essentially, drama-free. It was far from problem-free. But we navigated the problems without emotive scenes. We would get annoyed with one another - regularly - but never mean, disrespectful, shouting, accusing. I wonder if same-sex partners have better understanding of each other on some level. Then again, it's also possible heterosexual partners derive some added benefit when they manage to span the gender divide.
Where is the follow up with the actual men making the statement in their profiles. The author and the sociologists are all making assumptions. My husband of almost 20 years and I have drama that enters our lives and we each brought a little with us at the outset. It’s all about how much and how real it is and how you can manage it together. I suspect they mean no conflated drama but really, a good journalist should ask them.
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Good article, thank you. I like to think ofThe Buddha as the Einstein of pscho-emotional well-being. His first "enobling truth" or, in other words, an elemental truth about life: there's suffering. He didn't say all life is suffering, because that's obviously not true, but just as true is that suffering is unavoidable and to be expected. He then went on to give lots of great advice about how to minimize it for ourselves and others, but that's a different conversation. Not accepting this is both a sign of extreme naivety or ignorance, neither of which is a desirable quality in a potential partner.
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@Michael - Thank you. Well said.
We are first biological creatures. Men want to pro create (have sex) and the don't want a lot more. Women are the essence of life as we know it. They want children, family and some one to help them with it (or the Drama). To the pro creator (men) the drama works against pro creation. Simple.
@rich williams
You forgot the
/sarcasm
tag.
Otherwise, it’s anything but simple.
One factor not discussed in this piece is the role “social” media plays in the increase in drama in people’s lives as well as a general decline of introspection. Post first and think second.
When one’s first impulse is to pick up a device and “communicate” something, as opposed to having an actual conversation with a significant other, the opportunity to actually discuss and confront feelings in a private matter is lost. Intimacy of the social kind is one of the greatest casualties of the electronic “communication” era.
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I’ve been dating a woman a month. She is amazing. And has a LOT of stuff going on in her life at the moment. Starting a business, 16 year old daughter, and more. Lots of “drama” -LIFE - going on with her. Not a lot of time for me. We both care about each other and feel we’ve found something special. I’ve had to accept that a relationship with me comes low in order of priority at the moment. I’m ok taking things slowly (NOT my mo and difficult!), seeing her when I can, and having plans constantly cancelled. It’s not a “doormat” situation - it just is what it is. For now. This article helped clarify things for me. This is going to require consistency, being there for her when she can’t always be there for me, and having a longer term goal in mind. It’s not easy. At all. But she is worth it.
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After 45 years of marriage, the "no drama" is best interpreted in my view as "don't sweat the small stuff." Life and people are what they are - the end game is to be essentially happy and sharing that vision despite what comes your way. Lord knows there are enough hassles in daily life to make a big deal out of whether one person didn't deposit laundry in the hamper of left the car without gas.
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This whole piece which assumes that what men mean by 'no drama" is that they don't want to deal with the inevitable complexities of life is based on what the author states here herself, that "I didn’t quite understand what men meant when they said they were looking for “no drama,” What it means is that there are women who deliberately create dramas between them and their man for the sake of it. This is both because they enjoy it and also because they may feel he is not paying enough attention to them. So they will decide to take some random thing and create a huge issue out of it, not because they feel it actually is, but because they have a desire to "have a whole drama", as a girlfriend I once had would put it.
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Drama-free relationships are rare in my experience and are usually found as a bond very much like that between best friends. If you are lucky enough to find such a partner, loyalty will come naturally.; you will always "have each other's backs". As I said, rare.
Should you go so far as to marry your best friend you will be people who LISTEN to each other without trying to change each other or "manage" the other's life. You will be honest about what you feel whilst neither expecting nor demanding that your partner feel exactly the same. You will approach problems as questions that need a strategy to deal with and try to develop that strategy together. You will present a unified front because you are unified in purpose. This is a relationship between EQUALS, not competing rivals. You don't undermine each other and you won't seek "revenge" when your partner disappoints you in some way. You will work through the causes and deal with the effects and make changes in your relationship if necessary.
The problem is that such relationships are so rare the few of us ever have the chance even to observe one and, therefore, no concept of how to identify a potential partner of the right sort to attain the best-friend/lover/partner mix.
In 1971 or so, Ira Levine published "The Stepford Wives" about men who wanted sex and domestic services without emotional involvement. Men and women should both read it and think deeply about what they mean by avoiding "drama" in relationships.
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I think "no drama" actually means no mind games or deliberate chaos. I very much doubt if people asking for "no drama" really expect to meet people who have no problems.
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@TomF.i agree. she definitely left any mention of that out of the article, which seems a glaring omission!
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@TomF.
I agree that's what they mean, and for most it reflects the "deliberate chaos," of past relationships, or for the younger ones, their childhoods.
After reading this opinion, I had to check back if it was satire. She wants to know what men mean by "no drama" so she asks other women? Try asking some men in their 20s and you will see it is not a sexist plea for a zombie partner without emotions, it is a plea for a partner who doesn't have a litany of emotional problems that dominate the relationship. Maybe during the early "getting to know each other" period she doesn't talk incessantly about her problems, her depression, her anxiety and she doesn't have any breakdowns the first few weeks. How about a partner that doesn't "cause" drama by over-reacting, over-analyzing every sentence, every text, etc. Young women today are under so much stress to be "perfect" in their real lives and on-line lives combined with the "victim" culture so prevalent in our culture today and you have very unhappy women seeking men who will never meet their expectations and men who just want what they perceive to be a "normal, healthy woman." It is so easy to blame this all on men and label it sexist without looking in the mirror and questioning why men want no drama.
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@Teri
Hear hear! You're exactly right.
Amusing article. Asking a random (female) sociologist and then a feminist about what men mean or want... Solid research and basis for a hypothesis.
The only contribution this article makes is, to reconfirm, that putting the phrase "no drama" into your profile achieves exactly what it should. It keeps away precisely such people as the author and potentially concurring people.
Chapeau!
30
Having spent a few years on dating apps following the breakup of my 25 year marriage, I'd like to make a couple of observations:
1. I found during my reviews of female profiles on dating sites that women who used phrases such as "no drama" used other nonsensical "contemporary" expressions in their narratives. The latter usually were poorly written or vacuous. Swipe left.
2. To explain "no drama," as the author has done, requires insight, thought and some effort -- all the very antithesis of what most of the internet and today's communication is all about. A sentient being can easily explain on their dating profile that they seek resolution to conflict or discord via calm, quite reflection and conversation and look for the same in a partner. That they do not suggests a lack of seriousness. Swipe left.
3. Finally, that this "no drama" phenomenon is growing among millennials is not at all surprising. Today's youth grew up with the internet -- a virtual space where there is no need for personal human interaction, and where if you are unhappy with an electronic exchange you simply turn off your computer. It should come as no surprise that these individuals do not have the faintest idea of what it takes to co-exist with another independent human being.
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The % of men who want no drama is higher for younger men because as men get older they realize that drama is inevitable. I never thought that my husband would die of cancer when I was 43, and that every man I dated after that would be compared positively and negatively to the man I had shared 18 years with. Drama is life and good partners need to know how to deal.
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‘No drama’ is, simply put, a quiet, totalitarian relationship where one partner must subsume their needs and feelings to the other. It signals a lack of honest communication and fair play; and guarantees failure or worse.
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It sounds like ‘no drama’ is a pretty useless descriptor that means different things to different people. Also, I doubt that people whom others see as being high drama have the self-awareness to identify themselves as such, which probably means it does little to screen out the crazies. Perhaps people should be more precise about what they’re looking for and what they want to avoid. And in any event reading someone’s profile is no substitute for getting to know them and making your own judgments.
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@Kay
Spot on. The phrase 'no drama' probably has more to do with concision requirements than anything. And yes, those whom others would call 'high drama' would chafe if a guy was honest----did what women say they want men to do, in other words---and said, "Look, I've had too many instances with partners where an hour of rants and pop psychology analysis over any matter of any size was expected. Offer advice and you get, 'I need to vent, when I'm ready to solve the issue, I will'. Only they're never ready."
I'll bet my bottom dollar that neither Laura Hilgers or Vanessa Valenti have the slightest idea why so many married guys consort with escorts.
I really think the definition of “drama free” as presented in this article is way off.
I have always understood “drama free” to mean not wanting to date someone who purposefully drains the relationship by creating crisis after crisis to feed off of, fulfilling whatever reality show fantasies they have about dating.
And yes, everyone has legitimate personal dramas. “Drama free” is a call for mature, stable adults who have the tools and support systems in place to manage their own personal issues, especially while just getting to know someone.
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But if “drama free” refers to someone intentionally creating crises as a habit, why are so many people saying it? Are there that many people who are intentionally creating drama? I am sure they exist, but the use of this term seems more like a lazy way to express a fear of something that may not happen or a way to express their own unwillingness to deal with the ups and downs of life.
12
Yes, there are that many people creating drama.
It is a slang term that is best defined by the Urban Dictionary, which another commentator has already posted here, so I won’t disagree with it being characterized as “lazy”. But those that use this term understand it’s meaning.
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@MDargan
The author is mistaking drama for what I would call conflict.
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p.s. here is a simple question that should have been answered by this article. are the men who say they are looking for a no drama relationship successful, if yes, what does this say about women, if no why do they say it even if it bring no success.
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While I don't consider anything this woman has to say as news, weather sports can provide solace is the question,
I'll let her TV guide her. Depending on the situation, comedy or drama can be a form of entertainment to her.
Your essay notes, "men over all were 10 percent more likely to say this than women." It doesn't sound as though men alone are displaying the behavior you're discussing.
3
I noticed the same thing. It struck me that a difference of 10 percent is not all that much given the overall point of this article.
And maybe this theme of "no drama" relationships applies more specifically to those using online dating apps, and less so for all those others (both male and female) out there in the "real" world.
Overall I think it is delusional to expect, or even desire, a no-drama relationship. Life is drama. If you don't care for drama, stay home and read a book or watch TV. It's almost as if those seeking such relationships are suffering from some weird variation of autism.
@DPB Nope, as she stated in her piece. Men are MORE LIKELY to say this than women. Perhaps you're simmering because you are feeling under siege by women speaking up and speaking out. Sorry, not sorry.
Drama is in the eye of the beholder. For example, one man I knew faulted his sister as “dramatic” for crying when he told her he had prostate cancer. That same man, years before, cheated on his wife when she struggled following the suicide of her son, unable to deal with her suffering and guilt while creating plenty of misery for others. Strong feelings can be mistaken for drama by someone uncomfortable with his own.
I do wonder when one insists on “no this or no that” - in my experience it means projection. That one is insisting that you not present with the quality he finds most objectionable in himself yet publicly claims he lacks. My most successful and enduring relationships are with people who have boundaries but do not put up walls.
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@Gentlewomanfarmer Insightful, thanks.
Has Dr. Carbino, or anyone else, asked heterosexual men what the mean when they say “no drama”? What are they hoping to avoid or minimize? The article doesn’t actually speak to a single heterosexual profile-maker. Another commenter mentioned the ‘how’ of dealing with life, not merely the larger, more challenging things but also the everyday things. ‘Drama’ could ensue because someone doesn’t respond to a text within 5 minutes of it having been sent, for example.
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A no-drama relationship isn't a ridiculous fantasy. Ask anyone who's in a successful long term relationship.
Life happens. It's what you choose to do with it that matters. "Drama" can encompass a whole raft of emotional problems that I don't want to be around.
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Just one more regurgitated catch phrase that makes up our new world through social media. There is no understanding of people as individuals anymore in the social media arena. There is no free and independent thought, it is just everyone posting pictures of their dinner and repeating ad nauseam the thoughts, beliefs, and phrasing of words and thoughts that are the exact same as the next guy. I bet if you pressed any one of the men who asks for "no drama" on these dating apps to explain just what this means to them, they would be hard pressed to even articulate what it is they do mean by it - it's simply a thing that all men are supposed to want today so they added it to their profile. Now, they should be posting pics of their dinner in 3, 2, 1...
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@KLJ
no, it is actually very easy: Drama free means, please dont sweat small things, concentrate on real issues and real problems...try to get prospective on how an issue will influence your future life and if it wont dont make drama out of it. If my partner has a serious issue, of course it is not drama, it is a problem that has to be solved in a relationship. But beware, in the end a relationship must be for both partners enjoyable and not feel like a trap........
@Uwe - That's what is means to YOU. For the masses who live their lives on social media and use an app for almost everything, the thoughts, needs, beliefs are far more uniform. My comment was more about social media and the oneness of mind of it all, not about a lack of understanding of the word drama.
1
No one wants to be a captive audience or prop -- some kind of potted plant -- in the kind of self-dramatizing narrative that is the stock-in-trade of Reality TV and many online video stars. The compulsion to spin all of one's life challenges, accomplishments and relationships, from the beginning and moment by moment, into a singular compelling tale in which one is one's own embattled hero or heroine is probably particularly acute for millennials who have grown up with no other model of self-presentation, as well as for anyone older who has watched far too much Oprah.
It is not surprising, then, that the OKCupid unscientific results Ms. Hilgers presents show only a modest difference between men and women (10%) but a decided difference across generations: baby boomers 12%, GenX 25%, millennials 47%. That's not enough difference across genders from such dubious data to support Ms. Hilgers' rush to join the popular speculation on "what's wrong with men," but it does suggest a real and growing problem "out there," doubling every generation, that millennial men and women are especially eager to avoid among their peers.
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Our previous President was famously known as "no drama" Obama.
In my view, describing someone as "no drama" has more to do with *how* that person deals with problems, and not *how many* problems that person is dealing with.
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@Dan. Yes! I dont know why this concept wasnt included in the article.
@Dan
I agree. Try to be calm, try to solve the problem constructively, dont overdramatize, look at the big picture, dont get upset too quickly...etc.
I have seen a lot of hard times, sticky situations and heartbreak in my first 50 years. Life has been pretty quiet for the last 10 years or so. I don't talk much about the things I have been through because I prefer to leave them in the past. Been there, done that, burned the tshirt.
I have known drama queens of both sexes. Some people need it like a junky needs a fix. if there is none, they create it. So I can appreciate not wanting someone like that in your life. However advertising no drama on a dating website seems pretty defensive to me. That person would probably want to explain why and would subject me to hearing all about the drama they have lived through. Probably on the first date. No thanks.
14
The conversation is about NO drama. NOT Less drama or not overly dramatic. Just NO, NOTHING, ZIP, NADA, ZERO. Just say what you really mean and then there won't be confusion. I agree that no drama causes me to think a person has no passion, or the ability to be compassionate. I also see this as a CONTROL issue of which is unattainable in living life. Thinking of Dr. Martin Luther King when he gave some of his great speeches and I dare say NO DRAMA would not have been included in his love of justice for all people.
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All one has to do is to watch 15 minutes of any of the Bravo Housewives series and you'll understand what the word "drama" means.
Drama is largely about fake problems.
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Anyone watching those shows is watching FOR the drama, which the actors (yep, actors) obligingly spoon up for them. They are no more representative of reality than John Wayne is as the American Ideal Male.
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I dated through the personals for a long time and met my long-time partner that way. Take it from a veteran: You don't want to be with the "No" guys. I skipped all men who advertised with a list of "No this or that" prohibitions. They obviously thought a woman should be customized to their desires and needs, like something you order online.
If you want a loving relationship that lasts, you absolutely need someone who's willing to deal with the difficult in life -- including the difficult in you, and in themselves. Being unwilling to grapple with the difficult is the reason relationships fail.
Like love, life isn't made to order, and you can't control everything that happens in yours. You need to be adaptable and resilient in order to thrive and be happy.
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