The Myth That Busing Failed

Thanks for the follow up to the first piece. The guests analysis was well reasoned and supported. However, as mention in a reply below, I think we need a lot more info. Clearly the problem with majority black schools was not the demographics of the areas, the problem was lack of resources (as was agreed). While busing was likely better given that you could not impact the root cause (lack of a national funding system), the discussion seems weird given we do not fully understanding the dynamics of the time and there was really no discussion of a better solution when this issue is clearly ongoing. I await part 3!

I love that you decided to focus on this story. We need to talk about it more; it looks as if the benefits of desegregation have begun to wear off. I am a child of desegregation – a white girl whose world was changed profoundly. I grew up in Mecklengburg county where desegregation didn't just improve the quality of the education black students received, it made us all modern, aware citizens. My classmates and I still discuss this regularly. @thedaily I would love to talk more.

If the goal is to mix children of different races, busing is definitely one way to accomplish THAT goal. If the goal is to improve the educational achievements of all students, I've always wondered why nobody has suggested the cheaper alternative of Busing The Teachers?

I think this was one of the most interesting and best The Daily episodes yet, imo. Having grown up mostly in Mecklenburg County this was really fascinating to find out how much it was a part of this part of history. I know I'll be doing some more reading of Nikole Hannah-Jones' pieces now to gain more understanding of all of this.

I thought the piece was biased and didn't look at the issue holistically. The fact that AA and White families were unsatisfied should not be set aside for ivory tower analysis. In the early 1980s I attended NYC schools during the later stages of busing. My older siblings were there at the during the 70s went busing began and there was an increase in violence at our high school. At my time the school was largely segregated as black and white kids rarely socialized with one another. I am white and attended one of the better high schools in Queens. There were many positive aspects to busing but there were some negative aspects as well. On the positive I think for the students, largely African American, that were brought to our school they probably had a better opportunity. In spite of the fact that there was still a lot of segregation within the school (cafeteria, gym, etc.) there was, for all students, a great opportunity to improve your understanding of the "other" because the school was more diverse. On the negative there was a lot of racial tension with a mild amount of violence in my era. It seems to me integration is not the only vehicle for equal opportunity but improving all public schools so that kids can choose to remain in their neighborhood and receive a quality education would be the goal. There has been a lot of progress on these racial integration since the early 80s and modern solutions are needed not recycling old ones with, at best, mixed results.

I thought the piece was biased and didn't look at the issue wholistically. The fact that African American and White families were unsatisfied should not be ignored for an ivory tower analysis. In the early 1980s I attended NYC schools during the later stages of busing. My older siblings were there during the 70s went busing began and there was an increase in violence at our high school. At my time the school was largely segregated as black and white kids rarely socialized with one another there was mostly tolerance and peaceful coexistence. I am white and attended one of the better high schools in Queens. There were many positive aspects to busing but there were some negative aspects as well. On the positive, I think for the students, largely African American, that were brought to our school they probably had a better opportunity like the story stated. In spite of the fact that there was still a lot of segregation within the school (cafeteria, gym, etc.) there was, for all students, a great opportunity to improve your understanding of the "other" because the school was more diverse. On the negative there was a lot of racial tension with a mild amount of violence in my era. It seems to me integration is not the only vehicle for equal opportunity but improving all public schools so that kids can choose to remain in their neighborhood and receive a quality education would be the goal. Let's create modern solutions are not recycle old ones with, at best, mixed results.

I have to say I would not consider bussing a success.... no matter the positive results that may have come as a result of it.... I would categorize it as a work around and second best to the actual solution.... integration.... yes it provided a needed education to many but their right to live and be educated in their own neighborhoods was usurped.... I have to disagree with your colleague and say it was not a success but rather a sad alternative to the true success that should have occurred.....

This is such an important issue and I hope the NYT will follow up with a piece based on actual data. I about spit out my coffee when Ms. Hannah-Jones casually postulates that busing quickly brought about satisfactory integration in the South and that whites rapidly came to accept it. There is so much evidence that this is simply not true (I truly wish it were). As just one example, relatively recently a number of white suburbs in the South have seceded from a large metropolitan area so that they don't have to integrate their schools (e.g., St. George and Baton Rouge).

The way your paper and podcast are able to break down incredibly complex issues, explain their history and significance, in a clear way, is vital to giving people the information they need to make up their own minds. As an African American from the Northwest, I was not bussed, but attended both public and private schools. The disparity between those systems is hard to explain, but in my public schools, we had real diversity, which I can’t see as being less important than a nice campus...but a nice campus helps. You folks are indispensable.

I usually value the Daily for presenting a balanced view. For example, their abortion episodes featured both the abortion doctor and the guy successfully deterring abortions. But this one was biased to one side of the issue. I remember reading recent articles in The NY Times on the messy failure of San Francisco busing meant to improve diversity but actually doing the opposite. If busing meant you had to not go to the school across the street and instead send a child in a bus ride to a suburb, I’d be unhappy too. How practical is it to bus someone from Manhattan to Brooklyn and vice versa. That sounds like a 1 hour or more commute that’s too long for elementary aged kids. The daily did not help me understand the issue in this one. As a person who is neither white nor black, I also would like to find out how did busing impacted non white and non black?

Boston, September of 1974 in Boston. The poorly implemented desegregation of Boston Public Schools sacrificed a generation of children and destroyed the fabric of its neighborhoods. Forty years later it has been widely acknowledged that busing in Boston was a failure. My experience as a ten year old child in 1974 can not be fully examined in 1200 characters but I can definitely say that my experience and those of many I knew in Boston was mostly a negative experience.

As a little girl growing up in the south during this period of time, I very much remember the busing and seeming overnight integration of the schools in my small town. It appeared to work and also my high school memories are tainted by the fact that most of the high school years were on a split schedule. Because I was a city kid, I went to school from 12-5 pm. Country kids were in the morning. Because we had to integrate immediately, this was the best solution until the shuttered schools could be brought up to standard (which they eventually did). I remember years later reading about the riots in Boston in the early 80’s re busing and I thought about all the freedom riders from the Boston area in my little town years before that. Ironic much?

I find this issue to be complex and thought-provoking, and I appreciated the reporting and analysis from Ms. Hannah-Jones. I had a few questions after listening to the podcast: (1) there is some discussion about how busing was successful in the south. Is there any further research/data on that topic? (2) There was a mention about Reagan being elected in 1988 and rolling back desegregation/busing efforts. Was that supposed to be George H.W. Bush?

The first 70% of the podcast laid the historical groundwork for bussing. What was reported was unprecedented division between races. Folks that aren't necessarily racists became so, when their children's spots for education is eliminated ironically for the color of their skin. Then, the interviewee spends about 3 minutes glossing over the suppose benefits of bussing in the South with a vague anecdotal account from one person. Two if you count the interviewee herself. I'm very disturbed by the difference of quality of this podcast over others. Facts when it supports your world view. Omission when it doesn't. Barbaro also did little to raise the points that are brought up by anti bussers. Fact is, you can't legislate love. The kind of thinking by the interviewee about expedient results from force integration is akin to short term profit planning in corporations today. I'm more interested in an empirically written piece that compares racial composition to resources and wealth in schools. I know for a fact that the contentious Specialized High Schools in NYC, the ones that Eliza Shapiro likes to bash on as elitist and segregated, the ones that the Daily has reported on, receive the same as other public schools in NYC, or even less funding per students than schools that are considered failing.

Respectfully....yes this is an important issue. But let’s not forget that in 2019, plenty of people still move for “good schools” or send their kids to screened magnet public or charter schools or to private school. Indeed if there was a survey of NY Times staff who have children, likely to find a similar situation....

Another great discussion with Nicole Hannah Jones ... albeit with the ironic juxtaposition of an ad for some realtor group that promises to protect "your property rights" -- just like they did across the country by refusing to sell houses in white neighborhoods to black families ....

This is a full opinion piece. What a waste of a Daily episode.