Alabama Aims Squarely at Roe, but the Supreme Court May Prefer Glancing Blows

The court’s conservative majority may prefer to chip away at abortion rights rather than overrule Roe outright.

Comments: 276

  1. Is the Supreme Court political?

  2. No question about it. Kavanaugh in particular is a political hack. His first job was helping Ken Starr impeach Clinton and enjoyed making public all the salacious details. Then, he worked in the George W Bush White House. Super political person, among five on the courts extreme right wing, who are hostile to abortion rights.

  3. The Alabama Senate has voted to outlaw nearly all abortions. These hypocrites decry "big government," yet they want to control every aspect of women's bodies, private decisions, and futures. Our job is to fight at every step to protect reproductive rights. Never, ever lose your sense of outrage.

  4. @E. Sol And don't forget, they want that "Big Government" when it comes to the Federal taxes that richer states pay to their benefit. They'd be lost without that funding. Oh, the hypocrisy. And yet I have no say in giving it to them because I am apparently not wealthy enough to be able to participate in the "sport" of not paying taxes. Nor am I that dishonest.

  5. A constitutional right to an abortion . . . . No doubt at the forefront of the framers’ minds when they wrote it. How did we get ourselves into this mess?

  6. @John Doe : Framers, could not, and did not, foresee all things, thus we have had to amend their original writings.

  7. @John Doe "How did we get ourselves into this mess"? Well, John, people like having sex. Some people have problems with their birth control. A sperm penetrates an egg and about six days later it attaches to the uterine wall. Some people don't want to have a child, and since this clump of cells is not a person, she is able to abort the clump of cells. It's been happening since the beginning of time and our founding fathers believed in a person's autonomy. They specifically stated in the preamble to the constitution that all people would be blessed with liberty. If you or anyone else has control over what I do with MY body, I certainly am not able to have liberty.

  8. @John Doe It was at the forefront of the framers' minds. The preamble of the constitution clearly states that I am granted liberty. If I am unable to have control over my own body, how is that liberty?

  9. Why is it not unconstitutional to target a particular group of citizens with legislation by those who are either willfully ignorant, are basically paid lobbyists, or who are complete hypocrites, some of whom have paid for abortions themselves? Can we also relax the privacy laws to post the names and faces of the men who have paid for abortions in Alabama? Why should their privacy be sacrosanct? How can the privacy and healthcare decisions of American citizens be treated as the rightful territory of religious fanatics and by a group particularly unqualified to address this issue? This is religiously determined legislation- a complete match for the "Sharia law" these folks whine about.

  10. Shocking that all of these are the same states that make it extremely difficult for poor/struggling/single parents to actually raise and educate the children who result from unwanted pregnancies. They’re fine with legislating and controlling women’s uteruses and “protecting [fetal] lives,” but their interest in protecting those lives stops at the end of their mothers’s cervixes.

  11. @CT So true. I've asked, time and time again, just how many noble legislators have adopted any unwanted babies that they've forced into being. Any hypocrite who has not adopted any unwanted babies is not worthy of any attention whatsoever. Talk is cheap; let's see them put their money where their mouths are.

  12. @CT To be fair, the GOP couldn't even exist today, if their twin brother (The Dem Party) didn't artificially cheat daily to keep the GOP afloat. Case in point: Democrats call Cons "pro-life" because Dems work for the GOP. If Dems were honest, they'd call cons "pro-death", since even the GOP says they are pro-death, NOT pro-life. (From the death penalty to fake wars to Big Tobacco and Big Pharma killing millions, to coal and climate to police murdering 3 americans a day in the streets. We all agree: the GOP despises life, as they themselves boast daily.) The DNC is the real villain. The GOP is just the side effect of the DNC. And both were founded by Wall St.

  13. @CT Worse than that. There are already healthcare deserts with rural hospitals disappearing. Some hospitals in Georgia eliminated their maternity wards so a woman might have to travel a great distance with a labor or other emergency. Now this. You might as well maroon poor women or those with responsibilities for their families or disabled or elderly family members on a desert island. Forced birth should be criminal.

  14. This isn't actually a women's issue at all. This is about a Civil War that settled the matter permanently: the federal government decides which liberties are fundamental, and thus granted to all Americans. States do not get to intrude on that power. Federal Supremacy was part of the original Constitution, even before the Civil War. While Alabama's statute on its face is an unconstitutional violation of Roe v. Wade, it does deliver a stark reminder that the outcome of having a president who does not uphold the Constitution could be civil insurrection, if not civil war itself. If the USA is fortunate, the Alabama display will merely be the basis for a new version of "To Kill a Mockingbird."

  15. Conservatives were so afraid of Sharia Law that they moved to legislate against it. Now, they are simply enacting their own form of American/Sharia with their increasing suppression and domination over women. How is this happening in 2019?

  16. @VoiceFromDumbo Sharia Law does NOT ban abortion.

  17. @VoiceFromDumbo I think point is good, however, I feel that the use of "conservatives" as being the engine driving this is incorrect. Clearly, there is a growing segment of our population who do not approve of "us" (US) being a secular country. They want us to be a Religious Based Country - a Theocracy - and not just any religion - but an Evangelical Extremist Theocracy. Our Founding Fathers created our country to get away from Theocracy and made it crystal clear in their declaration of "Separation of Church and State" They understood that religious extremists would try to worm their way into our government - so they wrote about it in the 1st Amendment. We are "supposed" to be a country that welcomes ALL races and religions. I guess that no longer applies to those who demand we become a Christian based country.

  18. @Ali Mashad Strictly speaking it appear that Sharia declares abortion as wrong, although not always punishable within 120 days. The larger point of course was that is was men (in both cases) making laws about controlling women and that remains the case.

  19. I am agnostic on abortion rights, but it seems to me that a great deal of pro-life energy could have been dissipated if the original law had been devolved to individual states. There is a huge difference between Alabama and California. I am convinced that a woman seeking an abortion in Alabama could find a sympathetic sponsor to a more friendly provider state.

  20. @Lawrence May I ask how these poor women will be able to travel to pro choice states? After an abortion, even at five weeks, a woman should take medication and relax to prevent infection and bleeding. Who is going to pay for the airline, train, or bus ticket? Who will pay for the hotel room? Every woman deserves the right for a safe and legal abortion in their home state.

  21. @Lawrence Ireland liked that pretext too. But then, religious fundamentalists decided to pass laws forbidding women from travelling outside the country to get an abortion. That tactic would not only restore our constitutional crisis in the USA, it would magnify it. You either believe in the supremacy of fundamental rights, or you don't. And you either believe that the SCOTUS is the final arbiter of what is fundamental, or you don't. We've always known that Trump accepts neither of those. He wants to criminalize abortion, and doesn't understand that any law that violates the constitution is both unconstitutional and illegal.

  22. @Lawrence As I understand it, the Alabama law would make it a crime to travel to another state for the procedure. Even if this were not the case, only women with means would be able to take advantage of your suggestion, leaving the poor out in the cold. How about the this? The decision to abort belongs only to the woman making that decision solely for herself. It's nobody else's business.

  23. I'm thinking and hoping that the worst can happen is that the SC punts it to the states, in which case self-respecting women need to be ready to vote with their feet and their money. Do you want to live, study, work. pay taxes, raise your children and contribute your skills and education to the economy of states that consider you, your daughter and granddaughter half a person? Not me. If state laws like Alabama's and Georgia's are let stand, I will move to a state that respects its women.

  24. @abigail49 Good idea, but unfortunately, many low income women do not have this option.

  25. @abigail49 You hope is correct. The very worst outcome is it becomes a State decision to allow or prohibit abortions. Majority of States will allow, many with few or no restrictions not already in place. A few may prohibit. That will be the will of the voters in those States though. The Sky is NOT falling.

  26. @abigail49 Yes women who can afford to leave the states will, but the poor won't be able to move or go to another state to have an abortion. The very people the GOP hate will be the ones forced to have a baby.

  27. This court has already abandoned respect for precedence in the Janus case, which reversed the Abood decision. Justice Alito was particularly egregious in his characterization of labor union rights in that decision. Even the vitiation of the Voting Rights Act is an earlier example ignoring precedence for very dubious reasons. Special attention should be paid to Justice Kavanaugh, as he had promised Sen. Collins that he would respect precedence. I that the Maine Senator and Kavanaugh were engaged in a charade. The senator wanted assure he constituents and Judge Kavanaugh was dissembling. If Roe v. Wade were to be reversed, it would mark victory in a forty year effort by the reactionary party to alter constitutional government. Currently, the major culprit is Republican leader of the Senate. who blocked Judge Garland's nomination. Sen. McConnell may claim to be an admirer of the Senate's traditions but he seems to be rather destructive of traditions and of constitutional norms.

  28. The US constitution says that the courts resolve conflicting "state or federal law", not "state and federal law." The states have equal power in this scenario. It doesn't matter what federal law is. Read the constitution cover to cover.

  29. @Michael If that is so, why did we have Obergefell declaring ALL states in the union must recognize gay marriage? At the time of the decision, many states were discriminating against the gay community. Obergefell vs. Hodges rectified that.

  30. @Michael That is completely wrong. The United States Constitution trumps state Constitutions, Federal Laws and State Laws. The United States Supreme Court is the final arbiter and interpreter of the United States Constitution. I presume that you disagree and think that Marbury v Madison was wrongly decided. Good Luck waiting for that precedent to be overturned.

  31. @Michael - Then more, mostly poorer and non-white women will suffer in some states much more than in others. We are devolving.

  32. Chipping away at abortion rights puts it out of reach for poor women and girls. Waiting periods, permission, hospital privileges etc all conspire to give rich girls choice, and poor girls ( who are mostly black and brown in the south) no choice. It's deeply unfair to deny poor women their right to determine their fates, their families, and their health.

  33. Another after effect of an election that was overturned by the Electoral College.

  34. @Jim Aronson The election wasn't overturned. The electoral college is the way our elections work. It's enshrined in the constitution and ensures that even the small states have a say in deciding who governs us. Without it, the same states that gave Clinton a majority, New York and California, would decided the outcome of nearly every national election. But you probably know that and are just venting. The election of 2016 is over, let's move on, as the democrats said after the 2008 election. BTW, I voted for Hillary, but I'm not going to whine for four -- or eight -- years.

  35. @Paul Stenquist Heaven forbid one person has one vote. Heaven forbid Wyoming, with about 630,000 people, not have the same amount of representation in the senate (who confirms judges) as California with almost 40 million people. Land mass should not equate to voting mass.

  36. @Paul Stenquist In 2008 Obama actually won the election. The Constitution can be amended. Republicans won't tolerate that because in a true democracy they would be a minor party.

  37. So all the people fighting to overturn Roe v Wade will be adopting all these unwanted children, right? They seem to care about a fetus and after that say, "oh well." We shouldn't have to fight for this any longer but why not push this adoption issue?

  38. @BG At this point I would be fine if they didn't adopt them. Maybe they could just vote in favor of supporting WIC and SNAP so the kid can eat. Maybe not act appalled when we say we need more dollars to educate the kid. I would say maybe vote for laws that protect the kid from getting gunned down in Pre-K but let's not get crazy.

  39. @BG • So a young girl or woman ought have to endure an unwanted and always dangerous health altering pregnancy just to make knuckle dragger religious creeps happy? • Have you adopted a child? • Have you sat and held them when they hit adolescence and feel both gut wrenching anger and soul shattering sadness they were birthed but unwanted - then abandoned to the fates of the world by the two people who only created them by sexual accident?

  40. We shall see. The issue is rule of law and abiding by the guarantees of freedom of conscience or not. It does not seem that most conservatives appreciate that the rule of law demands that government must respect limits upon it conforming with the demands of religious organizations to apply their moral standards upon all through public institutions. If these efforts to make abortion illegal succeed the rule of law becomes the rule of law by the most influential faction. Then our Bill of Rights becomes easily abridged by the government that is supposed to not do so.

  41. Yet another grim prospect that in so many ways, this country is slipping backwards in civil rights and women's rights, and the less affluent and the more not-white you are, the more you will suffer. It's bad for our 21st century society to become re-afflicted by 20th century injustices. Civil unrest as seen last century may follow.

  42. Yet the other day the Court overturned a precedent without hearing a case because it decided it was wrong. I am very concerned for the future of women's rights in this country.

  43. The rest of the world is moving forward with healthcare, gun control, and the environment. The republicans are in charge and the United States is moving backwards. I weep for my country.

  44. @Oliver Maybe Repulican's don't have birth control accidents ?

  45. @Oliver Some of us don't have the luxury of weeping. Weep, then dry your eyes and organize!

  46. How about America lets women decide on abortion rights? No man can ever understand or feel what a woman goes through. Emotionally and physically. Just saying.

  47. @Tiho You miss the entire point of patriarchy and all these man made "religions" around the planet: Servitude, secondary status and sex slavery of all females. Because human history is just one long timeline of weak and scared violent males.

  48. How ironic the republican party is. They demand and insist that a woman have a baby BUT are opposed to groups and organizations that would help that same baby to a healthy and productive life. The irony is sad but true.

  49. @Mickey Life is sacred until born....

  50. @Alan - Sorry but it's the Republican party enacting these laws. You can kid yourself all you want but if you vote for Republicans this is what you're voting for.

  51. @Mickey The greater irony to me is that the party that wants government to stop telling them what they can and can't do wants into your wife's and daughter's uteri to do precisely that.

  52. What Alabama has done is what will happen if the Supreme Court turns this issue over to the states.

  53. Welcome to Gilead. Please do remember that, since time began, women have sought abortions and have successfully undergone abortions, and this will continue. The rich, the well-connected, the powerful, and the educated will always, always have access to this procedure; the problems will continue to arise concerning cleanliness, expedience, and opportunity. To be sure, some of the loudest critics and the most vociferous opponents of abortions have periodically pursued them (whether to protect or to defend their own loved ones, or due to their own "mistakes") and will continue, in the time-honored tradition of hypocrisy, to bellow and to legislate against abortions. But - there will always, always be abortions.

  54. "The Supreme Court controls its own docket, and it may choose to hear other cases that chip away at abortion rights instead of overturning Roe v. Wade outright by ruling on a new law in Alabama." There's nothing left to chip at. The "undue burden" standard from Casey is essentially gone. The next move will deny at least some women the right to have an abortion.

  55. Next on the docket... visiting rights for the rapists??

  56. Thanks to some archaic religious fanatics -- hypocrites, basically -- we have returned to a time of butchery. Even catholic Ireland overturned their 1861 anti-abortion law. So, thanks to these ignorant, detached, never to be pregnant, or raped, 25 white men, Alabama steps back to 1861; a time when steel coat hangers are used, and infection or suicide will kill more women -- all poor women, of course, mostly black. But that's okay, because according to these fine upstanding white men "All life is precious." In that case, curious to know how they'd vote on gun control to stop kids being slaughtered in America's schools. How about you put as much effort into that as you did this little misstep. Hypocrites, all of them. Curious, too, to know which state they would take their daughter after being gang-raped? Oh dear, didn't think of that, huh?

  57. Let see, fifty million abortions performed in the USA, so far. Implicit then -- 100 million men (and women) sought and got an abortion. These people had mothers and fathers likewise in the food chain of abortion or 400 million people. Everyone in America is associated (first hand) with abortion. Even the people in Alabama voting to outlaw abortions have had a wife or mother, daughter or son directly complicit with an abortion. Everyone is connected to safe, legal abortion and nothing can change the data.

  58. Lets start a movement to hold every male who impregnates any female who will be forced to carry a fetus against her will to be legally and financially responsible for the fetus and be held accountable for his sperm, even jail .

  59. @Karen Rubin Yes, there is DNA available. How unfair to point fingers only at women, the only gender capable of the second half of the fertilization process. Not holding males accountable speaks volumes of their freedom from financial and paternal responsibilities, anatomity, and a get out of jail free card. Stop punishing only half of the unfortunate circumstance of who was present at conception.

  60. Our country is becoming a sad backwater country. The chipping away of EVERYTHING is not sustainable. Women are people. We are not incubators. People who applaud these anti-choice efforts do not care one iota about babies. They just hate women and want to control our sexuality, our bodies, our future, our lives. We will not stand for this.

  61. @Anne Never forget that Trump's base is 65% Christian. They've exposed themselves as having a lust for power the likes of which we've never seen. Completely abandoning whatever scraps are left of their ethical and moral foundation. This is a gift to them from the least moral and ethical man to ever inhabit the Whitehouse.

  62. @Anne We've been out traveling around the SW, and a tour guide, a very nice older man, actually said out loud, that the biggest group being discriminated against were white, Christian men. I almost choked on my water, but didn't bother to start in.. If he was any indication, some of these guys (certainly not all men!) are utterly, completely, clueless about the world around them in 2019.

  63. Anti-choice laws, along with draconian immigration and border policy, tariffs on imported goods, liberal gun laws, fight over who gets a SCOTUS seat, and the election of Trump as POTUS are all branches springing from the same root - the fight of white men to continue their social and economic dominance over the other 70% of the population.

  64. Abortion will never be "legislated out of existence." Women that want an abortion will have one whether legal or not. Wire coat hangers - remember those days?

  65. Let's just petition for a law where all men in these states have to get a vasectomy at puberty. Then we won't have to worry about any woman getting pregnant.

  66. I am so sick of hearing about this issue. I have always, and will always, support a woman’s right to choose. Polls consistently reveal that a solid majority of Americans support the right to choose. But am I wrong in thinking that the people who will be most impacted if abortion becomes illegal, are the ones least likely to exercise their right to vote? As Noam Chomsky has said better than I can, Republicans lack the votes to support their pro business, pro wealthy policies, so they falsely adopt positions on hot button issues like abortion, gun rights, and immigration to motivate single issue voters to come out en masse and support them. If you want abortions to remain legal, get out and support candidates who support your position. If you fail to do so, you will have nobody to blame but yourselves if abortion rights are restricted.

  67. @Kayemtee "Polls consistently reveal that a solid majority of Americans support the right to choose." Pretending that the polls actually show an accurate representation of American demographics at large, they are always taken out of context when reported on. If I respond to a poll saying that yes, I'm OK with abortion when the mother's life is in danger, then I immediately get put into the "pro-choice" bucket when the poll gets reported on, when I'm "pro-life" in every other area of the debate.

  68. @Kayemtee You have to look at the big picture. This plays out in a backdrop where states gerrymander their legislative districts and suppress people's ability to vote, especially poor people and people of color. The criminal justice system disproportionately impacts poor people and people of color, locking them up for years over marijuana possession or petty theft while white collar criminals get probation. The common denominator in all these situations is: poor people and people of color will disproportionally suffer. The overlap is no coincidence.

  69. @Damien Did you actually just now insult a 90+ years of research in the discipline of polling? Do you actually think poll researchers pay no attention to context? Do you actually think poll researchers pay no attention to wordings? Just how lazy do you think the researchers are to not even consider something so basic? Here's an example for you: Reuters do their own polling. And if you search their database on abortion, they have 40+ polls on abortion and every single one of them have different wordings and questions, just to find people's general opinion on abortion.!search/abortion FYI, here is an article from Smithsonian that, unlike what some people may believe, shows the current error rate in polls is at merely 2%:

  70. There would be fewer unwanted pregnancies if the prescription and recreational use of Viagra was restricted.

  71. John Roberts is ready to declare that American women are property of the state.

  72. @Gene Eplee John Roberts is a sane, if somewhat conservative, guy. He does not want to go down in History as the Chief who stood by while American Democracy was dismantled.

  73. @Gene Eplee Property of Big Money evangelicals and Vatican Inc. All these corporate religious organizations get innumerable tax exemptions because?

  74. People may surprised to learn that there will be a lotr of support, even among Democrats, for the idea of "...chipping away at abortion rights....". Lots of people are not totally comfortable with the apparent identity of interest between Planned {Parenthood, whatever name NARAL now calls itself and the Democratic party.

  75. @Lefthalfbach That support would end if it would affect rich, white couples who deliberately destroy embryos that are genetically defective or are the wrong sex. Let the first brave politician suggest that IVF clinics should allow frozen embryos to be bought.

  76. I'm not comfortable with the identity of interests between the Republicans and organized white nationalists, but what are you going to do?

  77. I wonder how Senator Susan Collins is feeling at the moment?

  78. @Fiona Senior I heard she's writing a strongly worded letter and is sending directly to her drafts folder.

  79. @Fiona Senior - I don't think she has ever felt anything beyond her own self interest.

  80. @Fiona Senior She is a politician and a wealthy multimillionaire and a Republican. In other words, she does not care. She does not care that young mothers will be left to bleed to death in cheap motel rooms by untrained profiteering abortionists. She does not care that unwanted unplanned children will live in poverty and grow up to be criminals and social problems. She does not care about 15 year old girls whose lives will be ruined by pregnancy caused by rape. Collins has no feeling beyond her love of money and power. A pox on her, a traitor to womankind.

  81. Amazing how much conservative Christians who have lost the battle of the pulpit, and now seek government implementation of their beliefs, have passed a law in their state so that it can eventually change the law of all 50 states. Let's pass a law that states that if you call yourself a Christian, you must only follow the New Testament of the Bible, and cannot use the Jewish bible to apply your views on others.

  82. @Mike The 4 Abrahamics are a tangled internecine mess, inseparable from each other.

  83. If only men had ovaries and got pregnant we would not have such anti abortion & actually anti female protestors ,Abortion would be available on demand w/o appointment in every shopping mall dug store. Lets keep abortion legal and safe ,leave women alone to make this choice freely, & YOU CANNOT DICTATE THAT BY LAW A WOMAN MUST HAVE AN ENFORCED PREGNANCY against her will !

  84. @Carlyle T. Indeed! If men could get pregnant there would be more abortion clinics than gas stations.

  85. What about all the women who vote against abortion rights?

  86. @Carlyle T. If only every man who impregnates a woman, or every state that probibits abortions, were statutorily obligated to pay to raise a child born to a mother denied an abortion, there'd be more abortion clinics than Starbucks and cellphone stores combined.

  87. Governor Ivey should concern herself more with Alabama's real ills and faults rather than with this mean, pathetic piece of legislation. Al a vote for this anti-abortion bill will do is to ensure the true believers that they will be saved when the rapture occurs. Meanwhile, their state ranks last, or next to last in such categories as high school graduation numbers, net income, access to affordable healthcare, general quality of life, per capita spending on education, the tax on food---not to mention the state's stubborn refusal to consider ending the death penalty it the midst of its orgy of concern for the sanctity of life.

  88. @Michael. "Ensure the true believers that they will be saved when the rapture occurs?" Nope--more like "convince" them.

  89. @Michael Too many politicians just don't have the courage to lead, nor the ideas to resolve issues. Instead, they focus on abortion, a topic they exploit as a distraction. The wealthy will always be able to get an abortion. And the elected officials who don't know how to do their jobs, aren't much interested in everyone else.

  90. Here it comes from the SCOTUS: "We think [...] that [women] are not included, and were not intended to be included, under the word[s] "persons" and "citizens" in the Constitution, and can therefore claim none of the rights and privileges which that instrument provides for and secures to [persons and] citizens of the United States [other than the 19th Amendment prohibition on discrimination in voting]. On the contrary, they were at that time [of the Constitution's framing, including the 14thA] considered as a subordinate and inferior [and baser and crueler] class of beings who had been subjugated by the dominant, [godlike, nobler, and more moral and humane sex], and, whether emancipated or not, yet remained subject to their authority, and had no rights or privileges but such as those who held the power and the Government might choose to grant them."

  91. @Colorado Reader This will possibly be framed in projection. That is, the "[faux] originalist" SCOTI will project this meaning onto the PA, NJ, DE Framers and Principal Ratifiers (& a millennium of Anglophone constitutional law). Or they might say that the projected "immorality" of the North-of-Mason-Dixonite and secular humanist colonial PA, NJ, DE women (the "independent women" that Marylander Kavanaugh said in his hearing he scrupulously avoided) was protected against only by the heroics of Mason, Jefferson & Adams [none of whom signed the Const, although that won't be mentioned] preserving a "Divine Right of Man" in state constitutions, such as that of AL.

  92. Isn't it ironic that if the map displayed was one that listed states aiming to pass restrictions on guns, that it would be an exact opposite ? The existing interpretations of the constitution allow for gun ownership AND also a woman's right to choose/make decisions about her own body and healthcare. How is it ok to chip away at one, but don't you dare touch the other ? Hypocrisy at it's worst

  93. @EBD And you wouldn't have the media up in arms (pun intended) as it is over the Alabama issue; I very much doubt that people like Adam Liptak would call such controls "extreme laws" as he does here.

  94. I can not express enough how frightened I am over this present paradigm. Do Americans not understand that we are edging closer to a marriage of the Church and State? That it is fundamentally unconstitutional to allow religious fanatics to own another's body? This goes against a higher law than any arbitrary, patriarchal church precept. It goes against a universal moral law that every human being has a right to her/his own personhood. We belong to us, we own us. No one, absolutely no one, can judge us, possess us, rob us from ourselves. We must together push back on this trajectory of destruction of our individuality. Women and men fight this, please.

  95. @Kathy Lollock Illogical and so unnecessary, isn't it? This is precisely the mostly RCC theocracy that Jefferson and Madison feared 240+ years ago. Thus, the brilliance of not just tolerant freedom of religion but freedom FROM religion. All gone now. America was a grand experiment while it lasted, though this has never been an especially good country for girls and women.

  96. @Kathy Lollock This is about science and its effect on the notion of what constitutes the beginning of human life, i.e., "a marriage of the Church and State" has nothing to do with it at this point.

  97. @Kathy Lollock Women, white women specially helped elect the monsters that are not tearing this Nation asunder. White women listened to trump brag about sexually assaulting other women and still voted for him. White women knew that there was a vacancy on the Supreme Court that the religious right wanted trump to fill, and still they voted for him. I feel sorry for the poor women of color that will be forced to live under these archaic laws, but white women, not so much they made this stone-age bed, it will be hard but they will have to sleep in it.

  98. This case is also about the right to privacy. Everyone's. Once again the party of freedom is quick to chip away at that freedom. The genius of the GOP is that they have convinced their base that the are for individual freedoms while depriving them.

  99. @Craig Is the right to life an American freedom?

  100. @Alice's Restaurant Alabama says absolutely no, it is not, in the case of the death penalty--and to boot, a few weeks ago a non-Christian was just denied the comfort of his religious advisor at the time of his execution.

  101. @notfooled Given that thesis--then state execution for a capital crime is perfectly aligned with Pro-Choice.

  102. The wealthy will always be able to access safe abortions, and they will regardless of the local laws. It is only poor women who are forced to give birth to children they don't want, can't afford, or didn't plan for- or find another way to terminate pregnancies, legal or not. And men have no need to worry at all, since they always have the option disappear as soon as their part in impregnation is over. It is therefore no surprise that it is wealthy men who are determined to enact these restrictions on a woman's right to choose.

  103. @Kate It keeps the poor poor

  104. @Kate Bingo. This is, and always has been, the truth at the core of this 'debate'. The wealthy hypocrites who are passing these laws, and their backers/voters, know that they always have an 'out' if their personal situations required the choice of reproductive procedures. At worst, fly or drive to your friendly progressive state to take care of things.

  105. @Kate Let me take it up a notch: by blocking abortion systemically, the GOP are shooting themselves in the foot: since white women have had better economic opportunities than brown women, white women have far more abortions than brown women. The GOP's religious and southern laws to hamper abortion have had ONE RESULT ONLY: more brown babies are born every day than white babies. it's marvelously hyper-ironic, and the GOP are doing the heavy lifting to erase their racist, right wing species off the planet. Whooops!

  106. Women ONLY shall make their own decision about abortion. It is NONE OF MEN"S BUSINESS !

  107. @LouAZ That is 100% true. As soon as (a) women can have babies without men; and (b) women can guarantee that they will not give birth to male babies.

  108. If only they were as restrictive with gun control as they are with women’s bodies. Guns have more rights in Alabama. Let that sink in.

  109. @Christopher Diggs Guns are a higher priority, too. No one talks about pre-natal, pre-K, or anything remotely tied to what people actually need to raise healthy children.

  110. @Christopher Diggs, If only abortion was performed with a gun. Then it would be performed up until the moment of birth, no license would be necessary, our sole allowable action would be to keep every zygote in our "thoughts and prayers", and patriots would continue to work to expand rights beyond the ninth month, say to first and second graders, maybe even to high schoolers. Whoops! Not to worry about that last one. The NRA already has it covered.

  111. The real issue remains the same: At what point does the fetus go from fertilized egg-ownership to a constitution protected species with natural human rights? Seems the window is closing rapidly on Pro-Choice egg-fetus ownership.

  112. @Alice's Restaurant The real issue is the same one males everywhere have not been able to contain themselves from meddling with over the last 2000 years: the right of a female to determine what is best her herself and her body.

  113. @Alice's Restaurant In fact, I wonder why those states haven't tackled the complete open market of fertility clinics. I suspect the reason is that the pro-life community is very used to compartmentalizing their views. Abortion = Bad. IVF = Good because those rich, white, married couples are trying to "create" life. Defective and unwanted embryos are just collateral damage.

  114. @Alice's Restaurant. A fertilized egg isn't even an embryo yet--and many if not most are "blighted ova" without the genetic wherewithal to even become embryos.

  115. There should be no other news today. The entirety of American news should consist of Alabama's actions, and a general call to all doctors, especially, and other thinking professionals in Alabama to leave Alabama immediately until that state comes to its senses. Total Boycott of everything Alabaman, and all Alabamans of sound mind really ought leave immediately. There is no other good choice.

  116. @warren - There's plenty of other news going on today. The pro life Republicans are saber rattling and getting ready for another war and the NRA has been caught at being crooks and liars.

  117. I called and emailed the Alabama chamber of commerce to let them know they lost my business.

  118. My understanding is that improving access to sex education and contraceptive services is the best way to decrease unplanned pregnancies (i.e., abortion procedures). Yet, these same states mostly rely upon abstinence-only education, which is associated with higher unplanned pregnancy and abortion rates. I guess their preferred policy is "don't have sex, kids, but if you do, we'll make sure your impulsive teenage mistake has profound, life-changing consequences for you, your partner, your offspring, your families, and your community. Enjoy!"

  119. @Jordan. That "preferred policy" would only apply to girls. Boys will be boys, after all. It's ALL about resentment that women, especially those on gov't assistance, could be able to have sex without consequence.

  120. @Sandy. Good points, Sandy. Indeed, my sense is that it's almost exclusively the girl, her family, and her community, who bear the burden of the unplanned pregnancy, rather than the boy! Per your second point, I do think that many on the anti-abortion side believe, in good faith, that they're defending "life," however poorly defined, ill-conceived, and indefensible their concept may be.

  121. Those of us who support a woman's right to decide on whether or not to continue a pregnancy need to work to get rid of this administation in 2020; we need judges and justices who are not driven by religious zealotry.

  122. Why, in the 21st century, is Alabama putting the rights of religion ahead of an entire class of persons - women? This rule effectively means that, in Alabama, men have more rights than women.

  123. @Norman and the baby is what???

  124. @Norman Men in the U.S. have always had more rights than women, so have boys over girls. Sorry to wake you from your lifelong slumber.

  125. @Craig Well, for starters, not a baby.

  126. My position with respect to abortion is that it is strictly a State, not Federal, issue. (With the obvious exceptions of Washington, D.C. and any US Territories.) This makes nobody very happy. I am pro-choice, so it doesn't particularly thrill me, either. Pro-choice people have accused me of wanting to implement the Handmaid's Tale. Pro-life people have accused me of aiding and abetting baby killers. Both sides want the Federal Government to decide this - THEIR WAY. It's depressing.

  127. The cold truth the left is going to have to accept is that there will always be parts of the country that will constrain civil rights. The best thing left leaning states can do is lead by example. These conservative ideas lead to regressive and less dynamic societies. Over time, the quality of life and economics diverge to the point where the less dynamic have no choice but to change. Left leaning and fewer states need to lead. Sometimes you have to let these places do their thing. Even with the real damage done to real people.

  128. @DennisG Women shouldn't be free in one state to make their own choices and forced to bear children in another. It didn't work for slaves and it won't work for women. If a country can't agree on the equality of women, it deserves to be split up. This is a fundamental right.

  129. @DennisG Don't forget, "you cannot be civil;" the only answer is to stop talking to people about politics.

  130. In the years 1981-1983 I wrote a 402-page Master's Thesis entitled "An Economic and Sociological Examination of Delayed Fertility Patterns in America." Today, driving to work, a talking head on MSNBC stated that the weakest part of Roe v. Wade is the right to privacy. Oddly enough, I devoted a full chapter to this subject - "Griswold v. State of Connecticut." This is a little-discussed case which has served as the underpinning for Roe v. Wade and a right to "Privacy" in marital matters concerning contraception. When I hear someone say that the weakness of Roe is based on the right to privacy between a woman and her doctor I recognize that eventually, within the time of Trump, some state will go after Griswold as well as Roe v. Wade. The framework of my thesis was this statement - that unless women are able to fully control their fertility they will never be seen as an equal in the labor market. By this, I meant an employer knows that a man will never get pregnant will make investments in that man which they will not make in a woman. So this is where the decisions by the southern and midwest states will affect all women except for those women with the economic means to leave the state and obtain an abortion. First, these laws will strip Planned Parenthood of its funding which means 95% of the services they provide to women like pre-term care, contraceptive options, and breast exams will be gone. We now have an American Sharia Law called the heartbeat bill.

  131. @Glenn Strachan Yup--first Roe and then Griswold. Welcome to Gilead.

  132. One thing that is usually overlooked is that there is a lot of money to be made by people on all sides of the abortion debate in this country. It's in their economic interest to keep this battle of the culture wars going on indefinitely, which it certainly will. If it didn't, many of them would end up flipping burgers at Wendy's. Have a look online at the lists of names of the top dogs and their staffs at National Right to Life and the National Abortion Rights Action League, as well as their counterparts at the state level. Of course you see "Donate" buttons all over these websites. And just imagine the piles of money to be made by attorneys. These people and organizations have become like the private health insurance industry, really. Their battles have had a life of their own now for generations.

  133. I campaigned for Roe and Wade and support legal abortions. In my view States, including New York, which have approved late term abortions and their vague descriptions of how living infants would be disposed of, has disgusted many fair minded and caring people. Governor Cuomo and the New York State Assembly, who lighted a building in triumph, have in their extremism and superficial publicity seeking started the end to safe legal and early abortions. It is their fault, they are morally and politically inept.

  134. @MA Donovan The "late term abortions" legalized in NYS are done strictly to terminate a pregnancy that would kill or physically harm the mother, or to remove a dead or dying fetus that would be stillborn (or at best, never survive as a conscious person). It is heartbreaking enough for a woman to learn her fetus is dead and would be stillborn; it is unspeakably cruel to force her to continue the pregnancy and then go through the pain of labor or the very real risks of a C-section only to knowingly deliver a dead or about-to-die baby.

  135. I'm confused. There seems to be a consensus that a significant number of women will experience an abortion during their lifetime. At the same time, a significant number of women must obviously be voting for these politicians. The only way I can fit these two facts is; either the women who care about the right to abortion don't vote, or they don't care enough for it to influence their decision on which politicians to vote for. As I'm observing this entire tragedy from an observer's point of view - I'm not a US voting citizen - I can't help but think this is tragedy of your own doing.

  136. @R - What's even more confusing is the number of people who use birth control who vote for the party that makes birth control less accessible and more expensive.

  137. @R They are unlike "gun rights" voters, who are single issue voters if one even breathes the words Second Amendment. So, you're right, if women are not going to be single issue voters on this, or at least main issue voters, don't expect the bubbas to back off.

  138. @R "There seems to be a consensus" here, there is a consensus here, The Demographic that participates in The New York Times comment section, or even the average poll, does not match American demographics at large.

  139. Just wondering if all the lawmakers who voted for the laws restricting abortion were intentionally infected with a deadly virus and were denied available medical treatment. The medical professionals can invoke their personal and religious beliefs for such denial of treatment.

  140. It's a misconception (no pun intended) that a "fetal heartbeat" can be heard as early as 6 weeks post-fertlization (2 weeks after the average menstrual period). At 6 weeks, a fertilized egg is certainly not a fetus, but rather an embryo; and if the ovum is blighted, it may implant but never grow into an embryo. The majority of late periods that don't end in live birth or actual pregnancy are most likely "blighted ova," which the uterus expels spontaneously at the point when viability is no longer possible. But sometimes, the uterus expels only part of the "products of conception," termed a "missed" or "incomplete abortion," which requires removal to avoid a life-threatening uterine infection. I had two such blighted ova. First time, I had to have a D&C at 10 weeks when I bled but retained the sac. Pathologists couldn't even determine gender from that tissue. Second time I did expel it at 8 weeks--but its healthy twin grew to nearly 9 mos., and is now 34 years old. At 8 weeks, the OB informed me a heartbeat couldn't be detected till 12 weeks--and in fact it took a week into my second trimester to detect one. What is "heard" at 6 weeks is likely fluid moving through a primitive tube--not yet a heart. In AL, women would have to rush to get ultrasounds as soon as their periods are a a week late to even determine, much less abort, a pregnancy. This would be a huge drain on medical resources (and by the time an embryo is found, an abortion might not even be scheduled in time)!

  141. The efforts to make access to abortions more difficult or enact total prohibitions strip away women's right. They also as part of this effort are reducing or nearly eliminating access to urgent medical services to women who are unable to afford it elsewhere. Restrict or eliminate abortion at the same time you effectively deny low or no cost family planning resources, genius. What segment of the population will be most effected by these laws? Disenfranchised and poor women, just the demographic we should be most concerned about in a caring society.

  142. The Conservatives have certain objectives. Especially in rural and Southern states. I have always believed the pro-life is more about demographics and traditionalism. 1. This act will increase the amount of white babies born in the state of Alabama. 2. If those babies are healthy and the mother is willing to adopt, this will provide a ready source of healthy children for childless white couples. 3. For those additional white babies born that are not put up for adoption, their numbers will help with getting to demographics. 4. For upwardly mobile white women in college or early in their professional careers, a few of them will get pulled out of the workforce and back in a traditional family setting. Especially in places like Alabama, where that expectation will be reinforced. 5. More marriages of twenty somethings and fewer women in high demanding / high paying professions. Now, this will also increase the number of black babies in Alabama too. However, these babies will continue to be ignored as they will be entrenched in that deep poverty that Alabama is famous for.

  143. @Practical Thoughts. The "pro-life" movement's motivation has nothing to do with demographics. The real reason is their belief that women (especially taxpayer-supported women) should not be able have sex without consequences. How else to explain refusal to fund, or let insurers fund, contraception? As to the men who impregnate women without consequences to them...well, "boys will be boys." Require a paternity test for every pregnancy and order the fathers to pay child support. We'll see how long abortion & contraception bans last.

  144. @Practical Thoughts As to "This act will increase the amount of white babies born in the state of Alabama" the presumption is economics will afford more white women the ability to travel to a state to get an abortion more often, so your conclusion on this doubtful.

  145. What I'd do is file the unborn child as a deduction on my IRS tax form. Let the IRS make the determination.

  146. @Dan O Uh, yeah, understanding gestation is 10 months that plan may not work out too well.

  147. @Dan O : Great, should include "contemplated unborn children" in the count

  148. @Matthew I was talking about the people who don't have children born in the same year, i.e. children born in the 1st have of 2020 would be deducted in 2019. I was just being a smart aleck, as this is a serious concern.

  149. If I was a woman living in Alabama I would boycott sex with men until this is turned back.

  150. @Matthew Men in Alabama are already used to finding alternatives.

  151. @Matthew If I was a woman living in Alabama, I'd hightail it out and move to Illinois.

  152. @Matthew Here is another solution. In ancient Greece the 2 great city states, Athens and Sparta, were constantly fighting each other. Women got fed up with their sons and husbands dying, resources destroyed, poverty, etc. So, according to legend, the women of the 2 city states decided on a pact together--- no sex for the men in either city state until they stopped making war. What about this idea ladies?

  153. This bill is about challenging Roe v. Wade and protecting the lives of the unborn, because an unborn baby is a person who deserves love and protection,” said Representative Terri Collins, a Republican who sponsored the legislation. I have one question for Representative Collins, , where in this law is there protection for the woman , mother.

  154. @Brit And where is the protection for the unwanted child, once born? If states had to pay to raise all unwanted children born of women forced to carry to term and deliver, abortion would be freely available. For the "pro-life" movement, "life" ends when the umbilical cord has been cut.

  155. @Brit: They don't even grasp that their own personhood developed from the experience of interacting with other humans after birth.

  156. @Brit Actual human beings have never been a concern of republicans. Once the umbilical cord it cut, it's pretty much "yer on yer own, squirt", unless we need to send you off to a war to die in... - They don't want to educate anyone - Guarantee healthcare for anyone - Ensure that living ages are achieved for anyone - Protect anyone from climate change, pollution, environmental degradation - Protect anyone from abuses of corporations - Regulate anything But they sure do loooooooove those babies!

  157. At 71 yrs old, I remember staying in a motel and having the motel raided due to an illegal abortion being done. What a dangerous time for women. Can you imagine the women who died from these abortions, or could never have children again. The devices they used were barbaric, like coat hangers. The choice is up to the woman and her conscience. Sister Joan Chittister called is "pro-birth", not "pro-life", as they didn't take care of the child after the child was born.

  158. @Dan O Yes, Dan, I can remember the women who died of illegal abortion and also those who could never have children afterwards. I can also remember the extreme guilt, shame and the terror these women felt. I also remember the young girls who had their lives ruined because they were forced to go through with a birth in their early teens, unmarried. They were shunned by their friends and parents and were not allowed to attend high school while pregnant, although, of course their boy friends were. I knew these women and young girls personally and all were white, middle class in high school and college. I am a woman, 74.

  159. @JB I, too, remember your observations. The additional sad part of all of that were the children who may have never known their birth mother, or are now trying to reconnect with their birth mothers who may have another family. Some people don't know the times we went through, back in our day. Thank you for your comment. Dan

  160. There is no other medical procedure that can be forced upon a human being _by law_ except those that govern if, when and where a woman may decide to end a pregnancy. The men who are responsible for impregnating the women cannot be forced to give even a pint of blood or a finger-nail pairing to save the life of either the woman or the fetus -- or the child post-birth. He can refuse to help because he has absolute bodily autonomy. This is wrong, wrong, wrong.

  161. @Anne in St. Louis: Insemination is a medical procedure.

  162. Could we please just split up into two countries, soon, before we have a second civil war? We'll have to find some way to do it via dis-connected cities...

  163. Best peaceful outcome one could ever ask for. Happens to be the most radical and fundamental solution to every problem this country has. Will bring amazing harmony and productivity to either sides of the country, blue and red.

  164. @Michael Jay Good idea. California is the 6th largest economy in the world....the Northeast is booming..... and so are other progressive states. The progressive states could do just fine without the regressive states. Progressive folks in the regressive states would be free to "vote with their feet" and move.

  165. It's no coincidence that anti-abortion law is harshest in former slave states. It's not about life, and it's not about God. It's about a subconscious attitude that white men in power inherited from their Grandpappies -- that black women and girls who will be the main victims of these laws are not people, but property.

  166. @Sherry the governor or Alabama that signed the bill is a woman. I've been trying to come up with at least a half decent explanation for this all day, but I do not think there is one...

  167. @Sherry That's really terrible, but has credence.

  168. @Terry You clearly don't know any conservative religious women. The governor is likely one of those holier-than-thou types who judges everything by what she herself would supposedly do--it's a fake form of empathy. I speak from experience of them in my life and they are no friend to other women, that's for sure.

  169. All the misogynist anti-woman laws will not stop abortion. Desperate women will find ways to abort unwanted unplanned pregnancies, either with RU-486 or illegal surgical abortions. However, many young women will die, bleeding out or infected from botched illegal abortions. The testimony of doctors about seeing young women die unnecessarily from botched illegal abortions, often leaving their existing children orphaned, is a big reason Roe was decided as it was. No woman impregnates herself and no woman impregnates another. The anti-woman cabal, funded largely by the pedophilic Catholic Church, wants to end abortion by the force of law, which is the force of guns & prison, and by punishing women and doctors, while the male impregnators face no consequences for causing unwanted unplanned unintended pregnancies. There is however a method that would absolutely put an end to abortions. Focusing on the fertilized in attempting to eliminate abortion has never and likely will never succeed, as history hasproved. We need instead to focus on the fertilizers, the impregnators. What would actually stop abortions is this: Make all males get vasectomized or otherwise sterilized at the age of sexual maturity. Their sperm could be frozen for use in a future wanted planned fertilization. Voila, no more fertile men no more pregnancies from rape, no more unwanted unplanned pregnancies, no more abortion. Done.

  170. @Earthling : OY - Sounds draconian..

  171. Exactly what I said. They’ll go back to back-alley abortion doctors. More live birth babies abandoned.

  172. @LI Res : Hold it, but, isn't having an abortion a reasonable thing to do? Even leaders who may wax, on and on, about their own value of life have sent military, who have been killed, into questionable ventures. In US, we punish with death. Just to begin to give voice that our sanctity of life is wavering, at best.

  173. Does the abortion ruling apply to a female student in an Alabama educational institution who is impregnated by an Alabama resident?

  174. @Practical Thoughts First of all, it's not a "ruling", it is legislation yet to be signed by the governor. And, as with all state laws it would apply to anyone that resides in or is within the state's boundaries. Given the nature of pregnancy, unlike, say, a moving vehicle violation, it would be unlikely to affect a pregnant non-resident visitor that passes through the state and continues on to have a (legal) abortion in another state. But you pose an interesting question: would a male Alabama resident be in the position to extend this law beyond the state's borders given they can prove paternity?

  175. Not if she goes to New York....

  176. A commenter at WaPo had this suggestion for reproductive age females and those who love them: "You can buy levonorgestrel morning-after pills (like Plan B One-Step, Take Action, and My Way) over the counter without a prescription at drugstores and pharmacies. Plan B One-Step usually costs about $40-$50. Take Action and My Way generally cost less — about $15-$45. You can also order a generic brand called AfterPill online for $20 + $5 shipping. (AfterPill can’t be shipped quick enough to use if you need a morning-after pill right now, but you can buy it and put it in your medicine cabinet in case you need it in the future.)"

  177. I'm surprised to see that the (future) economic costs of banning abortions is not often discussed. The women whom are going to be forced to bear a child are, statistically, going to be from a lower income rank. Being so, there’s a chance that her (or her husband’s/wife’s) job doesn’t provide healthcare or paid leave. So, now these women who don’t have private healthcare are compelled to use taxpayer funded services. This usage of the public healthcare system is just the beginning. Countries like ours (the U.S.), that have low social mobility (and high intergenerational income elasticity), will not afford these women/children the chance to climb economically/socially. This in turn means lower future per capita tax revenue. The lower revenue will lead to (eventual) declines in social and infrastructure programs and will most likely cause other forms of austerity. So, that’s the economic cost. Now the human/social cost: I would be remiss to not also point how surreal the political discourse surrounding this issue is. Politicians treat it like they’re passing a law to lower the speed limit…to save women from harming society. Having an abortion is not a trip around the maypole and it’s not something to shame or be ashamed of. Women taking control of their bodies was the first step of us moving from a society built upon superstition to one governed by science (and this goes back to at least 200 BCE). History is not, nor will it be on the side of the GOP.

  178. @Mister B Send em' on a bus to Mexico, NY or CA where abortions are still legal. Abortion tourism here we come!

  179. @Mister B If I am wrong, the Republican party was the Abolishment party which fought to end slavery practices in the US... in fact that was it's main purpose. The GOP has been at the center of many civil rights fights and the fact that history seems to have been 'rewritten' by people who don't research history, scares me more than the lack of tolerance towards people based on political affiliation.

  180. @Mister B Not a problem for them. Our maternal mortality rate will just get that much higher. Listen to the way they talk about women. They don't see us as individual human beings, but only as extensions of themselves, or our babies.

  181. Alabama's abortion law is designed to go to the Supreme Court. Otherwise it will have no effect. And, as Mr. Liptak tells us, its chances of making it to the Supreme Court are slim and none. So Alabama has passed what amounts to a symbolic statement that its leaders oppose abortion. That has been true forever. The Alabama law, provocative but ineffectual, leaves the status of abortion unchanged. The main effect of the Albama law is to put abortion back on the front page for a rehashing of what those who follow already know. Abortion was front page news during the confirmations of Gorsuch and Kavanaugh at the time of the resignation of Kennedy and when Scalia died. And it is front page news whenever: defunding is at issue; Trump or anyone in Congress makes a provocative statement; throughout all state and federal elections; when a new study about abortion comes out; when a celebrity tells her abortion experiences or her opinion, for or against; if a prominent conservative woman has an abortion; whatever the Pope or a cardinal or any high religious official says about abortion; during the Irish vote (for weeks); if there are foreign aid cuts in abortion funding; and if any foreign country changes its abortion laws. Few issues get more media attention than abortion. It is either because abortion is right up there with the future of democracy or because it is overpublicized, knowing it will always get a rise out of the public. You can probably tell what I think.

  182. What's the deal with people who argue something to the effect of "I'm pro-life, but just for myself". To me that sounds a lot like, pro-choice...

  183. What medical student or OB/GYN medical resident would ever want to study or practice in a restrictive state like Alabama? Women’s health will also suffer from physicians staying away from states with legislative barriers to total care.

  184. @Mark Sadly, there are providers in every state who happily, willingly restrict women's autonomy over healthcare decisions. Pharmacists who hide behind "conscience clauses," for example, so they can refuse women legally proscribed medications, as well as entire (religious-based) hospitals that ban not just procedures but even providing women with accurate information about them so they can make decisions for themselves.

  185. @Mark Medical students and residents who go into medicine to improve women's and babies' health. Pregnant Alabama women need medical care, just like those in blue states.

  186. Precisely. However, if certain procedures are banned by the state, residents will not be able to practice them and will not measure up to their counterparts in non-restricted states. Top candidates for residency programs may stay away from Alabama. That will have a negative effect on women’s health.

  187. I would love to know the number of words written about abortion since Roe. v. Wade. In terms of cost in money and time, how much has been devoted to abortion since Roe v. Wade? If Roe v. Wade had said there is no constitutional right to abortion, would the output in words and expenditure in money and time have been less than what we have had? If yes, the opportunity cost of Roe v. could be high. But then again, there are those who have argued that if there were no abortion, a significant number of those born could have burdened society. The other side of that argument is some of those born could have made positive contributions.

  188. The “government” no longer reflects the will of the majority. Expect the walls to come tumbling down if this keeps up.

  189. And so it begins...2019 slowly but surely turning into Orwell's 1984. No being on this planet has a right to dictate what another person can or can't do to their body.

  190. The ability to create life is a large responsibility, and not one that should be taken lightly. As a woman, I have to ask the public, how can I not be "Pro-Choice," when general women's healthcare and access to birth control is limited. Did you know that as healthcare stands right this very moment, a woman can not even get an internal exam except for 1x every THREE years? A lot can happen in 3 years. I can not, in good faith, support subjecting another human to be a mother when they may have been unprepared, or worse, forced to become one against their will. When we will start offering more services that talk about safe sex? More services that offer birth control over the counter (because we all know how much men love condoms!)? When will we work on increasing the role men play in our society as the other half to creating this life? Why aren't we talking about boys having a reversible procedure until they want to father a child? Girls are put on birth control for a variety of reasons outside of just reproductive, and now, what? We take that away from a teenage girl who may have her cycle every other week and leave her anemic and unwilling to participate in school??? I just can't understand how we as a nation can say we want to be inclusive of others, how we want to be "the land of the free," but really, we only want to be accepting of those that are just like us and "free" those of like-mind.

  191. I don't know why people won't take conservative at face value, including many columnists claiming that the Roberts' Court won't completely overturn Roe v. Wade. Believe them when they say point blank that they want to ban abortion in the United States.

  192. According to US News and World Report, Alabama’s overall rank is 49th out of 50 based on the following metrics: Health Care, Education (dead last), Economy, Infrastructure, Opportunity, Fiscal Stability, Crime & Corrections and Natural Environment. How can anyone, let alone the Supreme Court, take anything that comes out of Alabama seriously.

  193. @William Taylor I read about the ranking in a story from and then scanned some of the replies. I left the site quickly with my eyebrows stretched up to my hairline. Quite a few respondents ridiculed the number one state — Massachusetts, if I remember correctly — for not having a top college football team. Bread and circuses, anyone?

  194. Unfortunately, Alabama conservatives’ concern for the unborn comes to a screeching halt once a child is actually born. It is consistently one of the worst places in the country to be a kid by every metric and since the vast majority of forced births will be among poor women, who can’t afford traveling to a less restrictive place, the law will perpetuate the state’s dismal but well deserved reputation.

  195. Wasn’t part of the Constitution about separation of church and state , or was that some other country.

  196. If there truly were a "right to privacy" then all drugs would have to be decriminalized. Why does this "right" only include abortion?

  197. Women in this country made their own bed on this issue. They either vote for Republicans or don’t vote for Democrats.

  198. The founders Supreme Court justices life term to avoid the court being political. Clearly this has not worked? Might be time for term limits for these clowns.

  199. I doubt the Supreme Court will take these cases. John Roberts will not want to use these cases to chip away at the ruling, and he really doesn’t want to alarm pro-choice voters prior to 2020. This Supreme Court will drag out any action to chip away at abortion rights for a long time. The issue hold the Republican coalition together and provides electoral energy to an otherwise useless and corrupt party. I wish the court would take these cases, and let the laws stand. That would put the onus back on state legislators and citizens to finally have to grapple with the fantasy that abortion can be banned and everyone will be happy. Maybe a fire will be set on the pro-choice side that will have a huge upside in getting rid of a lot these fascists.

  200. I looked at the little chart with state names and arrows heading, naturally, backwards. Suggestion to the coastal states who foot the bills for most of these Ozzie and Harriet states. Let's stop propping them up. Let them fall down.

  201. @Scott Montgomery 25+ states coast to coast have passed some measure of abortion restrictions on girls and women in their state: From Pennsylvania, Michigan, Ohio and Virginia to Utah, Arizona, Idaho, Utah and North Dakota...

  202. I’m sure it’s been said before that an all-male all-but-1 white Supreme Court decided Roe v. Wade, and pro-choice people didn’t seem to mind. I’m in favor of keeping abortion legal during the first 10-12 weeks even though abortion is wrong. My reason is that a woman is the first and only person who knows she’s pregnant, and if abortion is illegal and she does not want what many do not want to call the baby, she will be forced to hide or provoke the abortion, and nobody wants that. I believe we must start calling things by their names in order to engage in an intelligent and non-partisan debate. A fetus is a definitely a human being, at some time or always a baby, but never a thing, a bundle of tissue or an appendage. Science has shown that. If you terminate the fetus you are killing a human being. Whether that creature in the womb is a person deserving protection under the law will be better deemed once we acknowledge his/her humanity. I therefore believe that at this point in time killing a human being in the womb of a woman during the initial stage of pregnancy for the aforementioned reason should be allowed and therefore legal. I also believe that at all stages medical procedures should be strictly followed pursuant to the decisions of the Supreme Court, and that proper and complete advice should always be given. I also believe in a future where mankind sees the right to life of the unborn in the same light as the issues of slavery and civil and human rights.

  203. @jose A fetus is NOT a human being. The ability to survive outside the body of another sets a practical, technological limit on defining when a sustainable human life begins.

  204. @jose No one but the woman herself has the right to make any decision about her health. What if my "belief" system was -- I believe that some men should not receive medical treatment for cancer because they brought it on themselves by smoking. I believe that men should be forced to undergo vasectomies to prevent irresponsibly fathering a child that they don't take care of. I believe that men should't have any treatment for prostate cancer. Etc. No one gets to force an entire gender to have babies that for whatever reason they do not want, should not have, or that have complications. It is no one's business. Women have a right also. They are fully functional human beings capable of exercising free will and making their own decisions about their bodies. No. One. Else.

  205. @jose Do you believe a woman should be a slave to her unwanted (through rape or incest) fetus?

  206. This graph worryingly shows former Confederacy states participants in the Civil war. I only know one person on this earth that would enjoy this () more than anything else.

  207. What boggles my mind is that a group of people think that it is within their purview to step into the breach of a woman's privacy to make decisions about her sovereign right to decide for herself whether to bear children or not. You don't even have to be pro-choice to determine that a woman's privacy takes precedence over someone else's opinion about an issue. But at the bottom of this issue there are a few givens. When 26 white men in Alabama decide to inject themselves into the center a woman's most private area of her can only deduce that they consider women to be subservient, that they should not experience sexual lives without some form of punishment and that they answer to the will of men. Let's not fool ourselves. This is not about the beating heart of a fetus. This is not about viability or living consciousness...this is about controlling women. It is about an antediluvian need for religious men to control the lives of girls and women. It is totally abhorrent and it is totally unacceptable. We are in serious retrograde as a nation. We are in serious trouble as a culture and nation. And when this reaches the streets, I know which side I'll be fighting for.

  208. Forced childbearing is a form of sexual slavery, isn't it? Instead of "pro-choice," we should talking "anti-slavery" and let the old Confederate states secede, peacefully this time. Do the states have to be geographically contiguous to secede is my only question. Maybe Ohio and Utah could be "protectorates" of the Confederate States of America. It's time to put this issue to rest and get it out of our national politics. It is as divisive as slavery was.

  209. We are upon middle ages of America. This is the US version of chastity belts and FGM.

  210. Politicians define one's abortion position as either pro-life or pro-choice, but there is really a tremendous amount of grey area in between the two. There is a staggering amount of public support for restricting third trimester abortions. I was shocked when I saw the number form a Gallup poll... a whopping 81% think 3rd trimester abortions should be illegal, and a whopping 65% think 2nd trimester abortions should be illegal (May 2018 data). These percentages are not reflected here in the comments section (not surprised - NYT has always been a liberal slanted publication), however, it is very clear to me that the public is dissatisfied with the "life begins at birth" definition. Politicians ought to get together and debate exactly when life begins and when that life has a full set of constitutional rights. This definition ought to be based on science, medical imaging and testing - not emotion (one way or the other).

  211. @Jon K Funny that you would think the NYT is "liberal-slanted" because it reports the facts. But, these are the days of Trump, so.

  212. @Jon K Third trimester abortions are extremely rare and almost always because of some terrible medical or other situation. That option should be left open, because it is due to dire circumstances.

  213. Abortion is wrong God will deal with those people. When the GOP/Trump keep getting us into these weekly wars where women and children are killed that is anti life behavior. Supporting coal use and fossil fuels to further climate pollution and more human deaths that is anti life behavior. Save everyone’s life should be the GOP goal.

  214. Good. Now we can revitalize the secession issue that Republicans often liked to raise in their snarky comments about “liberals.” Hey why don’t they just start their own country. I agree. It’s time to let the red states go. They can have no taxes on the rich, no government regulation, no free education at any level, no health care, no immigrants, and all the back alley abortions their poor women can get their hands on. Wealthy women will just go to other states to get them like they used to. They’ll have high teenage pregnancy rates and high illiteracy rates, which will help their oligarchs remain in power as long as they like. We can trade w each other, visit each other, be on general good terms. But let’s stop being beholden to these people who really prefer science classes that teach the world is 6000 years old, dinosaurs lived when people did, and the sun revolves around the earth. Good luck and good riddance.

  215. @Gary Shaffer I agree wholeheartedly. But how do we move toward this? (It's a serious question.)

  216. Conservatives, particularly Republican Conservatives can never allow Roe to be overturned. How would they be able to mobilize Jim Bob and Bobby Sue to the polls if they don't have the abortion horse to flog. Republicans will never allow overturn of Roe.

  217. @dtschuck Don't forget 30% of latinos vote Republican, as do 10% of blacks. Those percentages could be much, much worse for women and for America, given the high percentage of latino Catholics and evangelical blacks now in America and in every state. Female rights are opposed by religions.

  218. THIS is what happens when you Vote for ANY GOP candidate. They vote in lockstep. Right, Senator Susan Collins ??? Seriously.

  219. GOP: Get the government out of our lives (unless you're a woman).

  220. In Georgia, Republican lawmakers have bragged about adding in tax breaks for fetuses. They get a twofer. Republican "life" policy is coming down to 1) Save the babies, kill the women. No medical association supports the limits on reproductive healthcare. 2) Guns don't kill people: people with guns kill people. 3) Freedom of religion means men get to force their religion on every woman in the country, even if their religious institution has systematically abused children and women for decades. Never vote for someone who thought it was a good idea to support a man credibly accused of attempted rape of a young girl whose name begins with K. Never vote for someone who supports a man boasted about sexually assaulting women whose name begins with T. Never vote for someone of either gender with the initials GOP after their name. But do vote. Women's rights are disappearing overnight. Half the population in some benighted states is now in a world like Argentina where an 11-year-old girl can be forced to have the child of her 60+ year old rapist.

  221. Here's an idea: All college bound Alabama females, please go to out of state colleges. All out of state college bound females please avoid Alabama colleges. All females going straight to work, seek employment in woman friendly states. Leave the men behind so they can know each other in the biblical sense.

  222. Evangelicals are motivated by fear of eternal punishment after death for failing to ban abortion and contraception. Can we bear to impose such a hardship on them?

  223. The main hardship borne by evangelicals is their belief system. Only they can relieve themselves of this unnecessary hardship which they impose on themselves and would impose on others.

  224. @Steve Bolger With all due respect, I am an evangelical and I have never experienced that fear. Because to be a Christian is to be a follower of Christ, not a militant of certain Republican causes.

  225. It's really nice, all the men commenting here. How many of you stand to lose ANYTHING here? Freedom? Privacy? The control over your reproductive decisions and health? The ability to enjoy sex without being forced (and shamed) into unwanted pregnancy, bearing a child, raising it, possibly a rapist's child? A violent domestic partner's? A partner you don't want to be with? An adult who raised you? A relative's? Men, if you want to comment, take some time and reflect. You are half the sky here. Please don't act like you're none of it on the pregnancy side of things, and all of it when it comes to outlawing it.

  226. I think I am concerned as much as you are, but keep in mind quite a few men support a woman's right to choose and quite a few women are opposed to a woman's right to choose. The problem is the same as it ever was: religion.

  227. I think I am concerned as much as you are, but keep in mind quite a few men support a woman's right to choose and quite a few women are opposed to a woman's right to choose. The problem is the same as it ever was: religion.

  228. @Ames great, succinct comment. It is everything. Thank you.

  229. Will men ever stop telling Women what they can and cannot do? All Women do not live in the so-called State of Alabama where their womenfolk are kept barefoot, pregnant, ignorant and in the kitchen. Vote blue at all times or your State could become like Alabama.

  230. Twenty-five white guys. What do they care about a woman's life, her choices, her finances, her life. Shame on all 25. They should be forbidden to have sex until they're 99.

  231. @E. D. That could be the reason why there are 25 guys involved. They have probably been discouraged from having sex and this is their way of lashing out.

  232. Roe, as modified by P.P. vs Casey, has a built-in sunset provision--fetal viability. In the absence of judicial activism from the left, or congressional action defining a right to abortion, the case law establishing a right to abortion will become gradually more and more irrelevant, as medicine advances.

  233. Here's a tip if you love your wives, daughters, mothers... or are a woman in Alabama: MOVE. Open season on rape and incest in Alabama. Don't like a woman? Rape her, get her pregnant, and force her to risk her life bearing your child.. Do not visit this state. Don't give them your money.

  234. One might consider that this is just a step by conservatives to legislate their world view of the whole issue of morality, which in that case could include making contraceptives illegal because many do not see any difference between abortion and contraception. Certainly, such views are held by the Catholic church.

  235. Thanks NYT for the convenient graphics. Helps me identify states not to send my business to. Lot of these states are subcontractors for auto industry - I’ll start avoiding those car companies. Don’t drink bourbon but will look into other commodities from these states that I won’t buy going forward (I’m already off Florida oranges).

  236. Why won’t you buy Florida oranges?

  237. We can all now assume that up next for those wonderful conservatives in Alabama with their rich, unshakable, unlimited support for human life, health and the human condition will become the first state in America to enact Medicare for all - a true Christian-values program if ever one existed. We can now all assume that Alabamans will now begin to address the unfettered accumulation of wealth and the resultant income inequality which so troubled Jesus. And knowing God has appointed humankind the stewards of the earth as per Genesis 1-2, Alabama's state government must be hard at work implementing a Green New Deal. Seniors, the infirm, victims of dire circumstances not of your own making, relax as Alabama has your back!

  238. Even with the increased independence and advocacy of women in the nation to enable them to control their own reprodutive health, it seems from this bystander male, that there is far from unanimity. Just as with Trump supporters, there seems to be a core (maybe 40%?) of women who, as "pro-lifers" and evangelicals, support these draconian measures. Unless more voting young women become convinced that allowing old white males to control their destinies, upholding Roe vs. Wade will continue to be futile and become irrelevant.

  239. I'm thinking that most women who didn't vote in 2016, or 2018, are definitely going to vote in 2020 (and bring their partners with them). And, I'm thinking most of them, if not all of them, are going to vote blue. After all, we know the anti-abortion group already has very high turnout rates, so it's hard to improve their numbers. Silver lining: thanks GOP for waking up many voters who sit on the sidelines and say "they are all the same, so why should I vote?!" No, they are NOT!

  240. @Character Counts The horses moved out decades ago, the rats moved in, and for years the structure has housed a massive colony of plague-borne fleas. So prodigal "voters" will finally show up to close the barn doors after Roe is overturned? Some silver lining.

  241. I think part of the conservative backlash we are seeing against abortion was caused by liberals themselves. They keep insisting that “fetuses”’aren’t people, that fetuses don’t feel pain, fighting for things like late term elective abortions for any reason, etc. I wholly support a womans’ right to an abortion in the first trimester, but beyond that unless it’s medically necessary I don’t see the reason and lots and lots of people feel just like I do. This just isn’t a black and white argument about a “woman’s body.” Beyond a certain period of time period there are two bodies involved. A more reasonable approach would benefit everyone. Liberals unreasonable radical stance has provoked a backlash against even early term abortion.

  242. @AVR - I absolutely understand how you feel and I won't dispute that liberals are terrible at messaging but do you really believe that any woman is going to go through several months of pregnancy and all the accompanying discomfort and then go through an even more uncomfortable (and very expensive) medical procedure "just because?"

  243. @AVR That's just it- who gets to deem it "medically necessary"? Doctors have been put in a secondary position as they must call lawmakers to get permission before performing abortions. It's nuts!

  244. Abortion is illegal already after 24-26 weeks in all states when the fetus can exist independently outside a woman’s body. Most women don’t even begin to show until after the first trimester so they may not even suspect they are pregnant. In addition, most medical testing is not done until after the first trimester, because that is the time most doctors think that the pregnancy may last until term and so the medical tests are finally worth doing. Thus if a baby has severe problems, the parents won’t find out until after the first trimester. This is why abortion makes sense until 24-26 weeks.

  245. Let's stop calling the GOP "pro-life". They are NOT. They are pro-birth. Once birth has occurred, the GOP care nothing for these children. If they did, they would support family assistance programs, health care, paid maternity leave, child care assistance, free/reduced price school lunches, public school education, etc. Since they seem to be staunchly opposed to these programs, it is laughable that they think they should be able to call themselves "pro-life."

  246. @kim The GOP is pro-votes. This is how they mobilize a significant portion of their base to get to the polls and how they are still able to win elections — along with gerrymandering of course.

  247. @Kim Forced Birth. Forced Pregnancy. Forced Birth not pro birth to be precise.

  248. Boycott Hangout Fest in Alabama this weekend.

  249. I wonder if the Alabama lawmakers also decided to increase food stamps and welfare payments to help all these these families? Or is this is mainly about controlling female sexual behavior?

  250. Abortion is this country is NOT about protecting the unborn. What utter nonsense! Abortion in America is about what it has always been about, its about POWER, its about CONTROL! If men were the one's who gave birth they would be getting abortions while getting their oil changed!

  251. Exactly! If abortion was truly the issue, let’s talk about other meaningful ways of avoiding it. Male contraception should be required...perhaps a mandatory reversible vasectomy at age 13?

  252. Barefoot and pregnant days, again. Most people have no money or resources to care for unplanned children. Are you conservatives prepared to adopt all of these kids? Raise them right? Send them to college? How about those of minories, mixed race. What happens when you discover one may be gay? Will you chain him to a fence or go with conversion therapy? You conservatives have a lot to think about now.

  253. @Dorothy Right, Conservatives should have to raise YOUR kid because you couldn't be bothered to use birth control. That's the thanks they get for having compassion towards an unborn baby.

  254. I believe Clyde and Kay have personally agreed to incur the costs of raising all these children! Not to mention all those Republicans who voted in favor of this legislation. Make THEM be personally responsible, not the taxpayers. I cannot fathom that their vote was actually the will of their constituents. I would be making arrangements for my daughters to leave immediately, if I lived there.

  255. @Samuel Russell - Birth control fails. You might know that if you didn't perpetually strike out. Isn't it interesting how little compassion you show towards babies once they're born?

  256. Abortion, or intentionally termination of a pregnancy is actually sanctioned in the Bible in the book of Numbers (Chapter 5:11-31). In this case it is in certain circumstances (to test the unfaithfulness of a wife, the priest basically makes her drink the “bitter water” that then induces a miscarriage). If this is sanctioned how is this really any different than allowing for willful termination if a woman desires it? How is the bitter water any different than RU-486 and the priest any different than a doctor in the modern context? Nowhere in the Bible is abortion addressed other than this sanctioning. In Exodus Ch 21 a woman’s life is held up above the termination of the potential life of a fetus. I know some Biblical scholars try to twist themselves into logic pretzels to try to change the clear meaning of these passages. Those who are from a Judeo-Christian moral tradition and oppose abortion on those grounds, yet believe every word of the Bible need to go back and read their own book. A fetus is a potential life (much like a sperm or an egg) that within 6 months has no independent viability without machine medical assistance. Actions need to be taken to turn this potential life into an actual life (an independently viable organism). The actual life and bodily autonomy of women outweigh any potential life. If actions to terminate are illegal, how far away are we from prosecuting pregnant women’s action/inactions that cause miscarriages in the state? How very 1984.

  257. *in the state’s eyes Did not intend that to read that any action or inaction on a woman’s part causes a miscarriage- rather that the state could define such things if we continue down this path.

  258. @Smith - The bible also sanctions human sacrifice and stoning. The bible isn't relevant. We have separation of Church and State.

  259. Exactly and I agree with you. My point was that those that use religion to justify their position on abortion are unfamiliar with their own book, and cannot use it as justification of abortion provisions as such (or a ban on capital punishment either).

  260. We should have gone with a constitutional amendment upholding the right to abortion back in 1973. That would have avoided this whole ugly controversy. Roe v. Wade is going to be, and should be, overruled, because it is constitutionally illegitimate. Neither Article III nor Marbury v. Madison gives the Supreme Court the power to write new provisions into the Constitution. Only the people can do that.

  261. Why are the choicers so hysterical? Even if Roe v. Wade is overturned in its entirety, states would still be free to permit abortion, and about half the states would do so. It takes a state law to make it illegal. So abortion would never be more than a short plane ride, or a long bus ride, away from anywhere in the 48 states (and probably would be legal in Alaska and Hawaii). Naral or some similar organization would be willing to pay the transportation costs of a woman from wherever it became illegal. The choicers aren't satisfied with the practical availability of abortion. They demand conformity.

  262. Have you ever been to Texas, say? Are you capable of reading a map? Have you, for that matter, noticed that some of these fascist laws make abortion illegal wherever it occurs?

  263. Some of these laws criminally charge pregnant women who leave the state for an abortion as well as anyone who helps them.

  264. Federal case law and federal statutes “win” over state statues, Once the Supremes have decided, states cannot go back set up their own rules. Hence, the importance of Roe. Kavanaugh agreed Roe was the law of the land, right?

  265. I don't think a single person in the GOP cares about abortion. What they care about is having any moral high ground they can claim, not matter how ridiculous. They are, in some cases, actively enabling mass murders but instead of addressing that they go and use their favorite rhetorical tool, false equivalency, to say how Dems are the killing by allowing women the right to chose what to do with their body. I don't think it is the direct goal to damage women's rights, but it is certainly a byproduct with which the right is more than happy.

  266. Trump and his GOP minions are trying to bring us back to the 1700's. I'd say they are doing a pretty good job so far, especially given the mental capacity of our so called President.

  267. @Character Counts - back to the 1700's. 1775 to be precise. When we were still under the rule of a king and aristocracy.

  268. um, there is no constitutional right to an abortion, abortion is not mentioned in the constitution

  269. Um, incorrect. The 14th Amendment prohibits states from depriving a person of liberty without due process of law. A woman is a person (despite the GOP thought otherwise) and has a right to end a pregnancy without government interference because this liberty includes the right to make decisions about one’s family and the right to bodily integrity. Roe v Wade was not decided on the privacy provisions of the Griswold contraception case in 1965 which was based on the privacy provisions in the 1st, 3rd, 4th, 5th, and 9th amendments. In Roe the court specifically referenced the privacy provisions inherent in the 14th Amendment’s right to liberty. In Casey v Planned Parenthood privacy provisions are not mentioned at all but “The controlling word in the cases before us is ‘liberty’”. It was already settled law prior to Roe that the right to liberty is inclusive of the rights to make family decisions and the right to physical autonomy.

  270. You and I have the right to do a lot of things that are not mentioned in the Constitution.

  271. Um, that’s not the basis of the Roe ruling. Read a book, take notes.

  272. If Roe is reversed (and Alabama's new law certainly tees up the issue well): Some states will pass laws (even amend state constitutions) to protect abortion rights. Other states will outlaw abortion. We all know which states will fall into which category. Amounts that now are donated to support Roe will be donated instead to "travel funds" that subsidize the cost of a pregnant woman's travel to a state where abortion is allowed. BUT we can't ignore the likelihood that women who travel out of state to have an abortion will be penalized in some way when they return. I expect the courts won't allow official penalties (probably based on the long-recognized Constitutional "right to travel" from state to state) but there probably would be umpteen "unofficial" penalties imposed by neighbors, etc. Roberts and the other Justices can't prevent such "unofficial" penalties, but they should keep in mind the likelihood that they would be imposed on many pregnant women who travel out of state to end pregnancies. Roe has been around since 1973, and one of the key factors laid out in Planned Parenthood v. Casey was the longevity of the Supreme Court decision involved. I don't disagree that Roe was wrongly decided, but it WAS decided, a long time ago, and many women (and men) have planned their lives accordingly. That should count for a very great deal.

  273. This is not a surprise. This is but the first step in a concerted campaign by the Right to take away civil liberties they don't like. The courts have been packed for years just for the express purpose of enabling decisions like the repeal of Roe vs. Wade . If you voted Republican in the last couple of elections you are getting exactly what you voted for. You have no right to complain.

  274. @manuscriptman, if you don't like any of these policies or they are going to damage your life and you did NOT vote for the other side, you also get what you deserve and have no right to complain.

  275. @manuscriptman frankly, if you were a Bernie supporter who trashed Clinton and didn't vote, you are also to blame...

  276. @JA Where did I say that I did not vote in the last election.