It seems to me there are 2 envelopes:
1 ) Bibi, Adelson,and AIPAC followers push an envelope into Trumps campaign fund.
and in return
2) Netanyahu pushes the envelope of Israel into Palestinian and Syrian land.
Even a stopped clock is right twice a day. It was high time to recognize Jerusalem as Israel's capitol (it has been for roughly three thousand years) but after that wrong in the world's policy towards Israel is righted, little of this other affirmation of the far right in Israel makes sense. It just reinforces the feelings of those there who stand against a meaningful peace that time is on their side. It removes us as an honest broker between the parties. And most importantly, it cuts the legs out from under those responsible people in the Arab world who want to see this stupid generational war end for the sake of the Palestinian people themselves.
Kushner, Grenblatt & Friedmann! These three entirely non-partisan gentlemen are to decide the fate of millions of Muslim and Christian Arabs? I'm looking forward to the signing ceremony on the White House lawn. Hieronymous Bosch, where are we when we need you?
Help him "push the envelope" - help him "mow the lawn" - help him "ethnically cleanse" - help him "spread democracy". So what`s new - It has been happening for seventy years and the "liberal" US/UK media either ignored it or provided excuses and then forgot it.
1
@Dominick Eustace
Would you prefer the opposite of "mowing the lawn?"
That would be "pulling the weeds out by the root."
"Pulling the weeds out by the root." would result in many more civilian Palestinian casualties.
Landler "complains" about Trump changing the US foreign policy in the Middle East that has existed "since the Nixon administration". Has that foreign policy accomplished something positive for the Israelis or Palestinians? Not really. How long would Landler like a failed foreign policy to persist? Do the lack of substantive accomplishments on the part of Martin Indyk, "a former ambassador to Israel and Egypt", give Mr. Indyk the credibility for Landler quote his opinion about what ought to be done going forward? The article states that this is a man who "tried to negotiate a deal between Israel and the Palestinians"; tried being the operative word (and failed). Really?
1
Re: "...But nothing emboldened Mr. Netanyahu to take such a risk more than the support of his ally President Trump..."
Correct me if I'm mistaken,m but...Mr. Netanyahu is under indictment for (alleged) fraud, so...OF, COURSE Mr. Trump admires him!!
1
Netanyahu wants to rule with a Fist but at least he believes in what he stands for and fought for Israel. Trump on the other had believes in Nothing. Trump backs Netanyahu cause he believes his base is for it and it keeps Sheldon Adelson happy.This issue is a Complex Issue and have a Reality Show Host in the middle of things only makes it worse. Does Netanyahu understand, Trump is Not for Israel,Trump is for Trump?
1
A U.S. President anxious to ignore international law and consensus to please an Israeli prime minister. What a change. As opposed to President Obama who dared to abstain from a U.N. vote condemning some Israeli atrocity.
3
@Edwin And what did Obama do for Mideast peace? Anywhere? It would appear that his approach was a dead end.
One of the great mysteries of the last few, well, decades of negotiation is why anyone has believed that relieving the Palestinians of any responsibility for their state (both political and state of being) would lead to anything good. Negotiation ultimately requires that the Palestinians acknowledge that their dream isn't coming; that Israel exists, that the Palestinians and their leaders bet on the wrong leaders and the wrong armies and lost.
As long as enablers are available to tell the Palestinians that "it'll be okay, just keep doing what you are doing..." why should things change. Perhaps showing them that endless refusal to come to the table with realistic proposals has a cost will bring about a return to sanity.
So please, stop quoting the wizards of the Obama administration whose 8 years of diplomacy accomplished less than zippo.
@Edwin
The UN was about settlements, not about some atrocity.
Jews have lived in Palestine for thousands of years. Palestinians ethnically cleansed Gaza of its Jews in 1929 and the West Bank & East Jerusalem of their Jews in 1948. Why is it illegal for Jews to rebuild their homes in Gaza, the West Bank and East Jerusalem?
Here's how Trump and Netanyahu are going to start WW3:
Step 1
For Netanyahu the US withdraws from the JCPOA and places severe economic sanctions on Iran. (done)
Step 2
For Netanyahu the US declares Iran's Revolutionary Guard a "terrorist organization" legitimizing Israel's attacks on Syria. (done)
Step 3
For Netanyahu the US makes an agreement in principle to provide Saudi Arabia with nuclear technology and fissionable material. This forces Iran to abandon the JCPOA and Netanyahu can say "I told you so".
Step 4
Iran's non-compliance with the JCPOA is reason for the US-Israel-Saudi alliance to push the EU into condemnation of Iran. Russia and China defend Iran's decision.
Step 5
Israel gets US green light to bomb Iran's nuclear facilities. Iran gets bombed by Israel and Iran retaliates with missile launches. War is declared.
Step 6
US sends air, sea and ground forces into the Persian Gulf to provoke an Iranian attack. Iran attacks US forces inside its territorial waters.
Step 7
John Bolton declares "mission accomplished" and the US finds itself in yet another ME war.
Hypothetical, but not beyond risk.
3
"Wagging the Donald" When you need a distraction from your corruption indictments.
2
Four decades of failed American policy based on appeasement of Arabs who have rejected every peace effort. Trump's policies are a breath of fresh air.
3
There is no 'plan' that Kushner (really?) et al can come up with that will satisfy the Palestinians, primarily because in it there will be no rollback of existing and planned Jewish settlements on the West Bank and there will be no Israeli concessions on Jerusalem. That's a given. The whole thing is a farce.
7
Trump and Netanyahu are both bullies. As well they talk out of both sides of their mouths... about "a two state solution".
So Trump, after making sure that the cards are stacked against an equitable, just agreement, and after making the United States into a broker that is so blatantly decidedly "pro-Israel" says: “If those three can’t do it, you’ll never have it done.”
And of course those three will never do it, they are so one-sided. What they want is capitulation, surrender. For all these years, the Palestinian struggle, the deaths and the devastation would be for naught if they end up with less than an agreement that gives them a viable sovereign state.
We will see in the end that this ONE state will be far from the "pro-Israel" vision that the Israeli Right Wingers and their supporters foresee. The blindness about this is incredible.
5
Separation and isolation in an increasingly dense and close-quarters world means resolving issues differently from the past.
Dictators cannot maintain power without separating and isolating populations, pitting them against one another. This is manifested in all forms of thinking and behavior. It occurs, for example, in corporations with consumer populations, and groups of children within student populations.
Regardless of how it appears, the goal is to achieve and maintain power. Power takes action, challenges are made, and questions about the particular power being an instrument for the greater good shift the results on the balance from side to side.
Checks and balances, and all the expectations placed upon them, are kept in perpetual motion by the flows of power and energy.
It is easy to view a civil war as ending slavery and atomic weapons as ending WWII. And it is easy to view them mostly as historical events, but weighing these events in that manner misses the higher value view.
The higher value, both for those seeking to consolidate and abuse power, and for those seeking to establish tools for distributively good use of power, is to understand the potential consequences of separation isolation.
Eli Wiesel said of the holocaust that the world had learned nothing. In a world where separation and isolation are increasingly unsustainable, will we say we can? As it is, it seems this might continue to be one big issue in the 21st century.
1
The 2-state solution is dead. 30+ years of settlements have wiped out any chance for a viable Palestinian state.
Time for a unified Bi-National & Tri-Religious state, where all three groups have equal rights under the law.
3
Israelis need to think carefully about the implications for themselves of foreclosing the possibility of a two state solution by annexation of the West Bank. Either Israel ceases to be a democracy (by denying political participation to the 2 million plus Palestinians who live in the West Bank) or it ceases to be a Jewish majority state. Yes, the consequences of annexation for the Palestinians--and the hope of Middle East peace--are dire, but they are for Israelis as well.
2
I’m kind of amused that some goy president thinks that he’s in any position to say that the Democratic Party is, “anti-Jewish.”
I’m also terrified by the myopia of any Jew who would laugh along as that same president declares that Netanyahu is “your prime minister.”
What was that about dual loyalty?
4
Not a fan of either one of these men, but I find it ridiculous for the NYTimes to imply that 'now, because of them, there will be no Palestinian State.' What a joke! How many decades has this gone on, where no president or country has been able to bring about a peaceful solution? In truth, the Palestinian people likely want some kind of peace, although the young have been corrupted and their futures stolen by Hamas. Let's get down to the truth - neither Palestinians, nor Muslims, wish to see Israel remain a Jewish state. Their solution is for Jews to leave (or die). Those are the facts, and they are well documented.
4
"Ghettos are bad for Us but good against Them!"
One of the news stories at the end of the Six Day War when it become clear that Israeli forces had conquered the West Bank concerned a conversation between David Ben Gurion and Moshe Dayan. Ben Gurion asked Dayan, "So, what are you going to do with one million Arabs?"
It appears that Israel is taking one of the lessons from history and applying it to the Arabs. Ghettos were used by Nazi Germany to isolate Jews so they could be easily confined and controlled. Israel in now creating its own form of ghettos in the West Bank to isolate and control the Arab population. That's what is being done with the now over two million Arabs.
The Jews in the German ghettos resisted and resented their confinement and, in Warsaw, rebelled against it. The Arab population in the West Bank has rebelled in the past, "Remember the Entifadas", and will likely be provoked to do so again. Annexing parts of the West Bank and further confining the Arab population into Muslim Ghettos will not bring peace, now or ever.
3
@Pete
Evidence that West Bank Palestinians are confined to the West Bank?
It's far more convenient to keep repeating that Putin narrative but Putin has no-where near the influence that Netanyahu has.
1
Truman never wanted to recognise Israel in the first place and his entire State Department (including the great George Marshall) strongly advised against it. The only reason he did it was political pressure from American Zionists.
Thousands of Americans have died (9-11, USS Cole, Embassy Bombings, etc) because of that decision
9
@Luciano
Here's a quote from Truman:
"The facts were that not only were there pressure movements around the United Nations unlike anything that had been seen there before, but that the White House, too, was subjected to a constant barrage. I do not think I ever had as much pressure and propaganda aimed at the White House as I had in this instance. The persistence of a few of the extreme Zionist leaders—actuated by political motives and engaging in political threats—disturbed and annoyed me."
3
@Luciano
“The Jews will be able to hold out no longer than two years,” the CIA predicted.
The State Department didn't want to recognize Israel because it was afraid that the Jews would lose & the USA would feel obligated to send in troops to save the Jews.
Israel has always fought its own battles.
How many American soldiers did we send to help Israel in the 1948 war? ZERO!
How many American soldiers did we send to help Israel in the 1956 war? ZERO!
How many American soldiers did we send to help Israel in the 1967 war? ZERO!
How many American soldiers did we send to help Israel in the 1973 war? ZERO!
...
Evidence that thousands of Americans have died (9-11, USS Cole, Embassy Bombings, etc) because of that decision?
I support President Trump's support of Netanyahu, his support of Israel. Trump stands against those in the USG who oppose Israel. Opponents of Israel must be opposed. I support the President. I support Trump. America First. MAGA! Thank you.
3
So it's Trump who has the "dual allegiance"—
how about that.
9
Sad situation for two countries, two corrupt men can't broker peace policies. No dioplomatic skills exist in their orbit, only self interest. Let's hope and pray the citizens of Israel seek a better choice.
3
That Netanyahu exploits the "tacit approval" of Trump to get away with just about anything reinforces the notion that these two leaders have much in common despite very different backgrounds. It is what happens when ethics, democratic and constitutional norms are cast aside.
What a slippery slope western democracies are sliding down.
10
Trump may be too ignorant of the consequences, but I doubt Netanyahu is ignorant of the dangerous consequences of his announcement. If, for example, Hamas fires RPGs or mortars out of Gaza on retaliation, then I’m sure Netanyahu will welcome the distraction from his corruption scandal. He is even maybe hoping for bloodshed, as that will likely give him a boost in the polls.
Patriotism is the last refuge of scoundrels, who - if there is no ready crisis for them to rally ‘round the flag - will manufacture one for their own advantage.
6
Bibi should take a lesson from history. Israel has no friend in Trump. Trump is only pushing Israel into a multi-front war which it cannot win.
2
The peace process, and the idea of a separate Palestinian State, has been dead a long time ago. If there was one today, and with the news on the future of Golan Heights, and the West Bank settlements, how would you expect the Palestinians to respond? From the outset, Netanyahu never had an interest for a two State solution. His only interest is to stay in power, create more problems for Israel and the people, and importantly, to impress on the Israelis, that he is their savior.
It is time for the US to stop being the mediator in the issues surrounding Israel and the Palestinians, or even their neighbors. There has never been a solution to the issues in the last fifty or more years. It is doubtful, there will be one, in the near future. Let Israel be the adult, and seek solutions to their problems.
4
I never felt strongly about Benjamin Netanyahu one way or the other but seeing him cozy up with Trump makes me seriously question his character and the hard-line policies that Israel has pursued under him.
8
The reason the Palestinians stopped negotiating was that Israel would not stop building settlements. The halting of the building of settlements is a precondition for negotiations according to the Palestinians who have suspected that in the past the Israelis were using negotiations as a stalling tactic to continue building settlements. On the settlement issue I agree with the Palestinians. Under international law building settlements on occupied land is illegal. The US government considers the settlements to be illegal. Obama called for a halt in the building of settlements. In this case the US would be on solid ground by following international law; Trump either doesn't know about international law or doesn't care.
17
@Bob
Trump doesn't care about breaking laws, US or international.
@Bob Actually it's unfortunate how the automatic critics of Israel blithely ignore anything looking like facts.
During the Obama administration, there was a freeze. Lasting almost a year. Abbas had other reasons why he couldn't negotiate then. Mostly it comes down to the basic fact that he doesn't want to negotiate--he wants someone else to demand on his behalf.
The PLO was founded in 1964, before there were settlements. Their express intent was to take back the "occupied territories"--different territories, then.
Please, forgive me; international law when it applies only to one country is hardly international law. The West Bank was occupied by Jordan, did anyone worry about building in it then? And how many other excuses do you wish to make for Palestinians deciding not to negotiate?
@DrD
The Palestinians have negotiated on several occasions. The West Bank wasn't occupied by Jordan it was part of country Transjordan. International law applies to all countries but there is no real enforcement mechanism. I acknowledge it is a complication situation and many Palestinians want the entire land of Palestine where they lived originally as their own country. And many Jews in Israel believe all of the land should be theirs. The question is can both sides make difficult compromises to find a way to live in peace or are they resigned to endless conflict.
If I were a Palestinian, I would be deeply suspicious of any "peace plan" developed by Jared Kushner with the help of Vegas billionaire Sheldon Adelson, Saudi Arabia's MBS, Egypt's Sisi, DontheconTrump and the right-wing settler parties courted by Bibi Netanyahu. So deeply, in fact, that I would reject it out of hand.
26
@Christy That's the problem in society today: bashing ("rejecting") the other side without taking the time to have civil discussion.
3
If the Trump-Kushner-Netanyahu "Deal of the Century" does not conform with international law and UN resolutions it must be rejected by the world community. The idea of pushing the envelop beyond universally accepted legal and moral bounds is utterly unacceptable.
13
The so-called "Deal of the Century" is being composed by Trump, Netanyahu, and Kushner with financing by Saudi MBS (alias "the butcher"). Since all of these persons are under criminal investigation(s) we can expect the content of the Deal to be nothing less than criminal.
14
I’d like to suggest that the NYT more carefully scrutinize its headlines prior to publication. In this particular case the writer has insulted Tom Wolf, of all people. I think Mr. Wolf spent considerable time trying to explain the difference between “pushing the envelope” and “pushing the outside of the envelope,” wihich are two different things entirely.
For every Trump action there will be an equal and opposite reaction in the US. Americans i the Post Trump world will be very critical of Trump Enablers. In Bibi's service to Trump he diminishes the nation of Israel in the hearts and minds on hundreds of millions of Americans. Calling hundreds of millions of Americans antisemites for criticizing Israel probably won't work.
4
"the dream of a viable Palestinian state" is just merely that, at this point, not because of the Israeli government, but because of the Palestinian government(s). The Palestinian governments seem to spend international aid on weaponry and spreading hatred of Jews, and do very little to improve the lives of their people. Why doesn't anybody talk about the way the Palestinians are treated by their Arab brethren; and WHY? Israel has forceably dismantled settlements before. If need be, for peace, I have no doubt it would do so again. But for a promise of nothing but more war, it's not going to support statehood for a state that exist to destroy Israel.
12
They're not 'evangelical' voters, they're End Times fundamentalists.
They are dangerous to the existence of the world...because they want it to end. What do you think End Times means?
They are the most extreme of extremists and as long as they're covered as 'evangelicals' we are all at risk.
6
It is time for the EU to step up to plate. It is time for the EU to stand up for international law and universal concepts of human rights. It is time to declare recognition of the State of Palestine with the 1967 borders and its capital in East Jerusalem.
25
@Greg
And it's time to ignore that outlandish advise, which they would, because int'l law, which you so often misquote, requires the two parties to figure this out by themselves. Recognizing borders, which aren't (armistice lines, twice), and not acknowledging the Jewish holy sites in the eastern sector of Jerusalem will lead to more war and a protracted state of constant violence. For what? To satisfy some anti-Israel sentiment. Come on!
2
@Rosalie Lieberman
International law requires Israel to remove settlers from the occupied territories. Full stop.
2
@Rosalie Lieberman
The propaganda says "the only way to solve this conflict is by “”direct negotiation between the two parties” ……..when in fact it is well-known that Israel is in multiple-violation of international laws and resolution should come from the international courts.
If your neighbour takes what you consider to be your land and your water, and otherwise infringes on your legal rights, you rely on the law for redress. You do not accept the absurd notion that the only solution is by negotiating with your neighbour.
2
I think Mr. Landler missed the point, beginning with his first sentence that includes the statement "...Flouts four decades of American foreign policy..."? Does Mr. Landler live under the delusion that "four decades of American foreign policy" has achieved something useful? Does Mr. Landler suggest we continue "accomplishing nothing"? Exactly when is the time to give up on a failed foreign policy and do something else? I applaud Mr. Trump for taking a stand on this issue. The Middle East is "the graveyard of civilizations". No one ought to be so arrogant to think that, after milenia of fighting in the Middle East, "they know" what's going to bring peace "this time". As the leader of the free world, I think Mr. Trump's attempt ought to be given a chance. As an aside, the NYT shouldn't be quoting, as "know-it-alls", "former ambassadors", who had their opportunity "to bring peace" and failed!
10
Hopefully the envelope contains a pink slip.
Unfortunately, with BiBi in power nothing will happen, no matter who is President. The man only cares about his own glory. It is nauseating to even watch him over all these years and to manipulate his way to re-election. The continued "deplorable second-class" treatment of the Palestinian by Bibi and his friends is deliberate and is the core problem. What normal person throughout the world would put up with the treatment the Palestinians have been subjected too.
10
Hey, putting it the other way, what does Trump see in Netanyahu?? Maybe a mentor? Add Erdogan to Trump’s list: maybe Trump will ask for a second election in 2020 if the first one doesn’t satisfy him?
5
@John Brews. ❎❎❎
Wasn’t it President Obama who said that he admired Erdogan and learned so much from him? Then again he also had an overly trusting view of the Iranian ayatollahs. So making lists says very little unless you compare them.
5
I’m sorry, but it appears to me that the two-state solution has been dead for a while. Israel has been talking out of both sides of its mouth for a very long time - paying lip service to the two-state solution while its actions work against it. If they were actually serious about it it would have happened by now, regardless of Jared’s ineffectual efforts.
21
@JoanC
The same can be said of the Palestinians. The Palestinian position is that Israel must withdraw to the indefensible 1967 armistice lines and allow return of all refugees, the code for the destruction of Israel. At the same time, they engage in incessant terrorism against the Israeli people.
6
@jim smith
How are the 1967 lines "indefensible?" Israel has nuclear weapons and the finest armaments American taxpayers generously provide them. Ballistic missiles arent stopped by another 20 miles of land.
1
@jim smith
The deal that Israel offered was Israeli control of Palestinian borders, airspace and water. That's not sovereignty, and the Palestinians rightly rejected it.
When you compare this article to the one on the Muslim world’s silence on China’s treatment of its Uygher population, many of the comments here can be seen in a new light. Venting on Israel, for real or imagined actions, is the convenient virtue-signaling way to express frustration over other problems in the world as to which you feel impotent. Before Israel was re-established, the acceptable target for such expressions of fear and frustration was the “Jew” and the occasional murderous acting out of these fancies (blamed also on the “Jew” who always managed to bring these things on his own head) was viewed as the price to be paid for social cohesion.
Not much has changed through the centuries as humanity continues to grapple with the need for a world of rules and order in the face of chaos and contingency. The need for the easy explanation and a traditional scapegoat endure.
10
@Charlie in NY I am sorry but "venting on Israel" is not a "convenient virtue-signaling way to express frustration over other problems"; remaining silent in light of this potential massive change in Israel policy, the violation of international law, and the violation of the rights of hundreds of thousands of Palestinians should be unacceptable for any American or any citizen of Israel. If Israel accepts this change the fig leaf is gone and Israel should be condemned.
8
@peter s. Thank you for making my point. Israel is doing nothing remotely similar to China and many other countries in the face of whose actual violation of rights you stand oddly mute.
6
American foreign policy desperately needs a retrofit. It needs to be turned away from the ideology of domination and replaced by the ideology of cooperation . It needs to be based on the concepts of universal law and universal human rights.
10
@Greg. Well, that would make the US unique in the world. Speaking of which, when will France be giving up its neo-colonial pretensions to intervene as it sees fit in its former African colonies? Anytime soon?
6
@Charlie in NY
Pointing out the cinder in the eyes of others does not remove the plank from your own, to borrow from the words of Jesus.
The conversation is about Trump, Netanyahu and today's trending strongmen, who share the mistaken notion that toughness is strength as well as an insecurity that is at the heart of narcissism. -- thegamesmenplay.com
1
@Charlie in NY
Good job. Keep pointing out his flawed comments.
1
Where is the solution Jared was supposed to come up with? Why isn't the press asking this question loud and clear? The press is just as bunch of cowards. They seem to have made some truce with trump wherein they will only ask softball questions in return for him not ranting about fake news anymore. Am I the only one that has noticed?
6
There is very little chance that anything cooked up between Trump and Netanyahu will have a successful outcome.
People who rely on bluster and manipulation almost always end hoisted by their own petard because the truth has an uncanny way of coming back to bite them.
At least that is what I am hoping because the annexation of the west bank, if it is allowed to happen, will cause an explosion in a region that can ill afford more upheaval.
29
A new low point of how not to run two governments...as espoused by the two "twins", respectively: Trump being currently investigated by our authorities for potential improprieties, and Bibi, already in the saddle with his pending indictments.
30
Changing the "facts on the ground" has been an Israeli position for decades, regardless of which political party was in power. But to what endgame? If Israel is ready to end the illusion of a two state solution, then is it prepared to absorb a majority Arab population? And will those whom are not Jewish become second class citizens? In short, is Israel prepared to be seen as an apartheid government? A theocracy more than a democracy?
8
More anger at Israel, for having an election? As to Palestinians being supporters of a secular democratic state, the Israeli Arabs/Palestinians are hardly turning out to vote. Why? If they all flocked to the polls, they could impact results. Are they indifferent? Or, have they conditioned their thinking that the only way to get results is to promote violence? The polls are opened in all their towns and villages, and nobody is stopping them. I'm afraid they don't respect democracy or the right to vote, which is a shame. But its their fault. Their MKs in the Knesset mostly scream about a Palestinian state, but what are they doing for their own citizens? Very little. In the meantime, crime goes up, honor killings, attacks on women get worse, etc. I think these corrupt politicians take advantage of the majority who aren't involved in voting, or putting up a sleight of candidates. Which further discourages those Israeli Arabs from voting.
This is an internal problem they themselves have to fix. But, it also tells us something about "respect" for democracy. It is not well understood, or appreciated. Perhaps they, and the Palestinians elsewhere, prefer autocratic rule. Sorry, but I don't buy into their helplessness. Neither the Israeli Arabs, who have equal rights, nor Palestinians, who could signal to the outside world they want to proceed with peace talks and a final agreement.
8
@Rosalie Lieberman
Rosalie, at least you are consistent in your defense of the indefensible. Do you realized that you aiding and abetting criminal activity. Do you realize you are assisting in Israel's self-destruction? I thought you were a friend of Israel, now I'm not sure.
2
@Greg
Ditto to you, from the opposite perspective. Do you realize the longer the Palestinians sit on their derrieres and don't take some initiative to present a plan, their plan (for starters), the less likely any state of their own will emerge?
Are U planning to contact Interpol about my criminal activity? You can be reported to our FBI for menacing online.
2
@Rosalie Lieberman
> Are U planning to contact Interpol about my criminal activity? You can be reported to our FBI for menacing online.
What are you talking about?
1
Well one can only hope that by helping Netanyahu push the envelope, Trump has helped push him right out of the prime minister's office. Netanyahu spells doom for Israel's democracy.
3
Trump is a real estate developer. The peace plan looks a lot like eminent domain without the compensation.
2
The Golan is a non-issue as, whatever their politics, most Israelis
correctly support keeping them as part of Israel. Conflating this with the settlements issue is absurd. But, as many of also understand, annexing most of the territories would spell the end
of the Israel as we've long known and fought for it. Mr. Makovsky
would readily agree. But Netanyahu notwithstanding, given the
hatred spewing forth toward Israel here from the left, a Trump
win in the next election might be no less deleterious for Israel as, lets say, would one by Sanders. But what most here fail to understand is that even in the short run, lets say from the failure of Camp David2, the Arafat abetted second intifada, and Sharon's
total evacuation of Gaza several years later, the Palestinians have
been their own worst enemies. Its spurious to blame so much of this soley upon Israel.
8
@Jack Eisenberg
Where is all this hatred here for Israel from the left that you speak of? You may be over reacting to a few voices.
No one is blaming the conflict solely on Israel, but because Israel claims higher values, the world holds them to it.
If there is to be a Jewish state without full democracy for Arabs, then Israel should make every effort to help establish and Arab state. The present situation is not sustainable over the long haul.
7
@mike. Are you suggesting that Israel’s “higher values” are aspirationally any different than those espoused by any Western liberal democracy?
And if that is the case, why pillory Israel for failing to reach its ideal? Why not lecture the other democracies on their failure to aim higher?
Your argument smacks of an attempt to rationalize an unwarranted focus on a far away country of which you know little - to borrow a famous phrase.
4
The best the Palestinians can do from a tactical perspective is to accept Trump's plan and align with him.
Maybe that would be a step forward to corner Israel's right-wing government. This is something neither America nor Israel wants and would do everything to avoid that situation, but sometimes political developments do not depend on intentions.
1
@arik
You are onto something very true. Israel is afraid of the actual two state solution, and not because it entails land swaps and returning isolated settlements. It's fear of the unknown, of a malicious and mega attack on a less secure Israel, and few if any int'l assistance if such a war was launched. Even American would not give Israel its back. We know how France was swallowed by Nazi Germany, and who came to rescue Great Britain when it was bombed? No allies there, until Pear Harbor.
From the Palestinian perspective, the longer they wait, the less likely any independent state. What the EU and US should tell them is, present your own plan. Yes, draft an intelligent plan and let Israel study it. Prod them to face reality. And, give them a time limit to coming up with a reasonable offer. No more than 10 years after they will reject the Trump plan. By rejecting to even look at it, they alleviate Israel's concern of possibly having to say no to parts of the plan. That, for the Palestinians, is a dumb move.
1
There will be no peace plan until hard right-winger Bibi and Trump are out. Please do not tar all Israelis and American Jews with the same right wing brush.
10
It may be worthwhile to think outside the box. Once Israel assumes sovereignty over these territories, then it completely changes the context of the situation. The Palestinian people living there instantly become Israeli subjects, and any continued repression of that population by Israel will be put in the proper light of persecution of an ethnic minority. The mythical "2 state solution," on the other hand, only provides cover for the status quo.
2
Maybe, just maybe, if the Palestinian’s stopped lobbing rockets across the border whilst hiding in and shooting from populated areas, they may gain some footing for getting to the negotiations table
5
@Chuck
International law recognizes the right of an occupied people to an "armed struggle" towards independence. What separates Gaza and Israel proper is not a "border." Gaza is not a state. It is enclosed in barbed wire with Israeli soldiers guarding checkpoints and restricted from the sea by Israel's gunships: https://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2017/07/palestinians-legal-armed-struggle-170719114812058.html
2
@Alfred di Genis
Has the Gaza border always been surrounded by barbed wire? Has "the sea" always been patrolled by "Israel's gunships"? You speak as if this situation arose de nove and without provocation. Google the phrase, "We will drive Israell into the sea" and see what comes up. What is your solution to the status quo?
1
Has anyone seen the Trump Organization business strategy for Israel? I have a hunch Trump sees an opportunity -- or is already working on an opportunity.
7
Is this part of the Jared Kushner plan?
3
@John Warnock
Jared Kushner has no plan, other than try and leverage some business and financing from the Saudi Royal Family and buddying up with MBS.
9
To paraphrase the Inspector in Casablanca, "I'm shocked, shocked that annexation is going on here."
House demolitions, denying Palestinian building permits, diverting water supplies, outright seizing Palestinian land, refusing to recognize deeds dating back to the Ottoman Empire and outright ethnic cleansing have been standard Israeli policy for decades.
Netanyahu is simply declaring what was already a fact. It is only the US congress and American media that carry on the fiction of a peace process.
The US has held the cards that could have changed this. A time honored process in international negotiations that get stalled are for the meditator (the US) to put a compromise plan on the table and re-start the talks from that point.
But the US, under AIPAC pressure refused to do this. The result was daily seizure of more Palestinian land, aided and abetted by the incompetent and corrupt Palestinian Authority.
But the Palestinian people are not the same as the PA. This can be rectified, but only to some extent and only within a small remaining window of time. The two state solution is barely on life support and can only move forward with a comprehensive plan and push by the US.
This will not come from the Trump administration so Israel is about to become a full fledged apartheid state. This is a status that was previously held to be a human rights violation in South Africa.
When that occurs, we won't be able to pretend any more. So, what will our policy be then?
26
@Drspock
In 1947, the scholars at Al-Azhar University (The highest authority in Sunni Islam.) declared holy war to return Palestine to Islamic rule. Therefore, as long as most Palestinians are devout Muslims (85% of Palestinian Muslims want sharia law.) and as long as the Jewish State controls even one square inch of land, peace is impossible.
8
Let's be honest- the Great Peace Plan is one of those empty folders Trump keeps on his desk.
8
@Umar
Is there a "great peace plan" on the desk of Muslim leaders that includes equal rights for all humans? Can you send me the link?
4
Bibi has no plan whatsoever to improve the lives of middle-class Israelis, such raising taxes on Israel's super-rich to pay for affordable housing and other social welfare programs. He is in a rare position to provide more space for development, an option largely unavailable to most mature countries, through settlement expansion and annexation of disputed territories. To be sure, housing in Israel's major cities has become unaffordable and new construction of low-cost apartments is currently off the table. It's his only long game, even if it jeopardizes peace in the Middle East and displaces some of Israel's Arab neighbors.
3
Ambassador Kurtzer was right that Israel and Trump want to change things on the ground, but that is in fact what Israel has been doing with Palestinian lives, property and land since time out of mind. Trump and Netanyahu merely uncloak this naked aggression for all to see. A child can see that this violent, absurd folly will not last forever.
23
When I read quotes like "Mr. Trump’s aides have kept a tight lid on the details ", I'm not the only one that thinks there is no detail, no plan, no study and no forethought.
13
Both are bloviating nationalists that haven't an ounce of empathy between them One can only hope that the pendulum has an ability to swing back in the near future.
24
I'm tired of the same comments over and over again- "Once Israel annexes the West Bank, it will have to decide if it is a democracy or apartheid state."
Israel already decided. It decided 50 years ago and it decides it every single day. Six million Palestinians live under Israeli military control under a brutal Occupation. This will continue to happen no matter what they call the Palestinians entity or non-entity.
Tomorrow will be the same as yesterday. Israel has been moving away from a democracy- to a theocracy- for the past 50 years. Individuals living meters away from each other in the Occupied land- one has full rights, the other has none- the difference is only religion.
Israel has willfully destroyed its democracy long ago and the United States has enthusiastically participated. Actions by Trump in the past year only make public what has been happening for decades.
65
@Umar. First, there are not 6 million Palestinian Arabs in Gaza or the disputed territories- though the number you pulled out of a hat is sadly associated with a great catastrophe (nakba, if you will) that befell the Jewish people.
Second, since the Oslo Accords, some 95% of Palestinian Arabs have been ruled directly by the PA and Hamas.
Third, the difference between rights afforded people “living meters away from each other” has to do with citizenship not religion. I know of no democracy that gives the franchise to non-citizens. Can you name one?
6
@Umar
Israel was ranked 30 out of 167 on The Economist's Democracy Index. That's better than Belgium, Greece, Cyprus & at least a dozen other European countries.
Israel has maintained democracy even though it's been under continual attack. By contrast, we Americans locked American citizens of Japanese descent in concentration camps during world war 2 & we confiscated Joe DiMaggio's father's fishing boat because he was of Italian descent.
6
@Umar
Where is the Muslim state where all humans live under the conditions you propose for Israel? I think that could be the beginning of a dialog. Israel could take a lesson from that state. Please advise.
4
As with everything Trump, the "ultimate deal" between Israel and the Palestinians is the "ultimate steal." If the Israeli voters ratify this illegal land grab in their election today, it could be the fuse, along with Trump's announcement that Iran's Revolutionary Guard is a terrorist organization, that ignites a major war in the Middle East between Sunni Saudi Arabia and Shiite Iran that would, in a reprise of August 1914, drag in the U.S. and Russia. This is the endless lesson of history that when power-hungry autocrats decide to burn all the rules to maintain power they end up burning the entire house down.
17
@Paul Wortman It would be Armageddon and the Evangelicals in this country, part of trump's base, would be thrilled.
4
It's difficult to comprehend why annexation of part of the West Bank is so controversial. After the war in 1948, Israel was defined by the cease-fire line, called the Green Line. Abdullah annexed the West Bank into Jordan and there was not a peep from the inhabitants who would later be known as "Palestinians". The only Palestinian state that existed was Israel. In 1967 Syria, Jordan, and Egypt were days away from attacking Israel. Israel struck first and obliterated them. Again there was a cease-fire line, now including the West Bank, Sinai, and the Golan Heights. Sinai was given back to Egypt in exchange for a treaty. Since that time, the West Bank has been "occupied". This is really a limbo state and should be rectified. That rectification should include partial annexation. After all, there should be some penalty for the aggression of the three Arab states. It has never happened in history that aggressors lose territory and then everything goes back the way it was as if nothing happened. Israel should annex what it wants and leave the rest for the Arabs to make their state or to be re-absorbed into Jordan.
13
@Colby Hawkins But what of the original 1948 aggression by militarized Jewish settlers that marks the beginning of the modern state of Israel?
Successful aggressors never lose or cede territory. That’s why taking territory by force is nominally a violation of “international law”. To discourage what is obviously an effective way to acquire real estate.
1
@Lewis Caraganis
Fact check: UN resolution to establish the State of Israel followed by attack on the newly established State of Israel by its neighbors. Would you call the attack on Israel by its neighbors, "Israeli aggression"? I certainly do not.
Fun fact: Rep. Ilhan Omar has been advocating for a one-state solution, but that was allegedly unacceptable and anti-Israel. Her "colleagues" pounced on her without mercy. Now that the Israeli PM also wants a one-state solution--albeit one with the majority of the population living as a permanent racial underclass in confined spaces--I am curious to see how many of them will publicly apologize.
14
In terms of population, Israel ranks between Papua New Guinea and Togo. When was the last time the Togolese had a role in setting our foreign policy?
30
* The US recognizes Jerusalem as Israel's capital.
* The US recognizes Israel's sovereignty over the Golan Heights
* The US will be implicit in the sanctioning of Israel's complete annexation of the West Bank
* The US designates Iran’s Islamic Revolutionary Guards Corps as a foreign terrorist organization. This is the first time that the United States has labeled a part of another nation’s government a foreign terrorist group.
These are Israel first policies and can only be detrimental to the US. In the future, let's not say, they did this because they "hate our freedoms".
18
What is missing from every article on Trump's groveling support of Netanyahu's power grabbing is the role of the evangelical Christian political power brokers.
Evangelical Christians are the base that are even more vital to the support of Netanyahu and Israel than American Jews other than the Sheldon Adelson/RJC coalition.
19
Separated at birth, now reunited in producing death. Such a charming pair!
14
@teach
500,000 Somalis have died avoidable deaths over the past few years. The Syrian government has killed over 100,000 of its own civilian population. Even one avoidable death is tragic but be serious. Save some of your energy for the really big offenders.
Weren't these settlement supposed to go to Israel under the Oslo agreement? Wasn't the whole West Bank & East Jerusalem in Arab hands between 1948-1967? They had the land, where was the peace?
10
Netanyahu is under indictment for bribery and fraud. He lies, fans the flames of xenophobia and racism.
Trump's kind of guy.
18
I do not want to defend Trump and Netanyahu all; both are leaders who have made incredibly racist statements and pushed racist policies. But the idea that Trump's approach to Israel/Palestine "would flout four decades of American policy," is a fallacy on the facts. just see the growth maps of "settlements" during those "four decades of American Policy" --- the word "settlement" alone is a euphemism used by the US media, as if it did not require removing people from their ancestral homes and farms because of their race and religion, as if it were a "settlement" on empty land. In many ways, Trump is just forcing everybody, especially all recent US presidents and congresses, to admit what they have been enabling all along. At least it is honest.
8
@Luis Rocha
Jews have lived in Palestine for thousands of years. Palestinians ethnically cleansed Gaza of its Jews in 1929 and the West Bank & East Jerusalem of their Jews in 1948. Why is it wrong for Jews to rebuild their homes in Gaza, the West Bank and East Jerusalem?
3
@m1945
Some Jews have lived in Palestine for thousands of years. Very few did. The majority did not.
Some Jews were expelled and should be allowed to return. Recent arrivals from Russia dont count.
2
@m1945
It wouldn't be wrong, if Palestinians in turn were allowed to rebuild their homes inside Israel. This is such an obvious rejoinder to your point that it makes me wonder why you wouldn't anticipate it?
1
if one is seriously interested in a peace plan in the middle east, it seems to me and probably a majority of Americans that trump and son-in-law are only interested in what's best for Israel. if peace is the real goal how can you ignore the second party involved and then believe they will endorse your plan. what's this administration offered or done for the other side at this point. seems to be a one sided marriage, with the other side being told to "deal with it" or not.
6
@Ricky
Every time Israel offers to end the occupation, the Palestinians say “No!”
Even Prince Bandar bin Sultan of Saudi Arabia (certainly not a Zionist) said that Arafat’s refusal to accept the January 2001 offer was a crime. Thousands of people would die because of Arafat’s decision & not one of those deaths could be justified.
As Clinton later wrote in his memoir:
It was historic: an Israeli government had said that to get peace, there would be a Palestinian state in roughly 97 percent of the West Bank, counting the [land] swap, and all of Gaza, where Israel also had settlements. The ball was in Arafat’s court.
But Arafat would not, or could not, bring an end to the conflict. “I still didn’t believe Arafat would make such a colossal mistake,” Clinton wrote. “The deal was so good I couldn’t believe anyone would be foolish enough to let it go.” But the moment slipped away. “Arafat never said no; he just couldn’t bring himself to say yes.”
3
@Ricky
It is not the American people who support the injustice in Palestine ,it is the AIPAC-controlled Congress & WH. eg.
1/ In 2009 when Israel invaded Gaza & killed 1400 people of which 2/3 were women & children , 334 members of Congress signed a letter to Obama to "Go Easy On Israel" while the 192 members of the UN Gen. Assembly voted 93% to condemn & sanction Israel for this same atrocity. It included destroying 5000 buildings.
2/ It was NOT the American people that voted to donate $4 billion/yr to Israel (now $133 billion inflation adjusted) or to create a special US tax loophole for gifts to Israeli "charities" that build illegal settlements.
3/ On July 18 2014 the US Senate voted to support Israeli actions in Gaza in which 2200 Gazans were killed & the US vetoed a UN an investigation plus it released a cache of US munitions to the IDF to continue "Mowing The Grass in Gaza".
4/ A 2014 NYT`s article quoted B.Baird a Dem. congressman: “The difficult reality is this: in order to get elected to Congress, if you’re not independently wealthy, you have to raise a lot of money & you learn pretty quickly that, if AIPAC is on your side, you can do that.” It also quoted J. Yarmuth, a congressman from Kentucky, on upholding the interests of the United States: “We all took an oath of office & AIPAC is asking us to ignore it.”
The US must change its election campaign funding laws so that foreign lobby can no longer game the system & control Congress
2
Fuelling his imperial ambitions the way Trump is using Netanyahu as his pawn on the chessboard of the West Asian geopolitics, and thus leading him to the collision course of regional confrontations and conflict with the neighbours will end up only in self ruin and bitterness for Israel.
2
Here's the sequence: Bibi gets re-elected; Trump takes credit. Trump implements a border plan/wall, using Bibi's security controls as a "really really great plan". As 2020 opens, Trump and Bibi conduct a "splendid little war" against Iran.
9
Sadly, Trump is happily doing Putin’s bidding by engaging in behavior that is causing and will cause disruption everywhere. He seemingly has no interest in considering the consequences of his actions or he is happy to assist Putin. Trump is no friend of Israel.
3
@Justice Holmes
Putin has nothing to do with this. Trump is doing Netanyahu's bidding, just as he does MBS's bidding in Yemen. Liberals really need to get over this weird obsession that Trump only does bad things because of Putin, or that Putin is some cartoonish evil mastermind manipulating everything.
Trump is a corrupt, stupid, easily manipulated narcissist. He does the bidding of numerous authoritarians. They just have to flatter him.
Case and point; Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely. If you don't like that one, how about a slightly paraphrased line from Ben Franklin, "politicians like fish, begin to smell after three days"
3
@Bill. I thought the quote was "dead fish stink from the head first" that works, too!
2
Any thought that Trump is enabling Netanyahu ignores the real dynamic between these two leaders. Netanyahu, the shrewd politician is playing Trump like a fine fiddle. Netanyahu whispers something into Trump's ear (move the embassy, allow me to declare sovereignty over the Golan Heights, let me annex the West Bank) and it becomes part of Trump's mid-east strategy. Netanyahu is the actor, Trump is the patsy. Oh, and by the way, Putin has figured this out, Duterte has figured this out, Erdogan is figuring this out, etc. etc.
Just making America great again.
41
If elected Netanyahu will enact Jared's peace plan: take what you can and give no apology. Annex the settlements and give them nothing in return.
32
From the micro level, when a family loses their home it’s devastating and they have our full understanding and solidarity that a wrong must be put right!
However from a macro level there’s a State of Israel and another entity cut-out from the former Ottoman Empire loosely called Palestine. That entity wants to reap the benefit of the losses incurred at the micro level by waring at the macro level. That’s never going to work, that’s why nothing gets done!... except the Palestine entity irreversibly losing more and more. At this rate, in another 70 years, there will be no Palestine!
The only option left is a State within a State and even that option is on shaky ground due to the eternal self-sabotaging nature of how the issue is being handled by the Palestinians. You can’t fight wars, support others fighting wars for you—and lose—and expect to get absolutely everything back the way it was. When on this whole planet did something like that ever happen? The State of Israel itself is the only example I can remotely think of and that took 2000 years to get done with tons of luck!
What chance does anyone see where land would be given back? I don’t see any! The best that could come out if this would be heavy investment in a new solid-bordered Palestine within Israel; a vibrant State of hope and pride. I know; it’s a pipe dream. It probably won’t happen, so let’s talk again in 70 Palestine and I guarantee you won’t be happy then either if you keep doing the same.
5
I cannot comprehend the logic of Trump placing all his faith in Jared Kushner's ability to come up with a Middle East peace plan, while at the same time implementing and endorsing policies which make it impossible for such a peace plan to ever succeed. But, then again, logic never touches anything Trump does.
6
@gigi
Trump has had an allergy to clarity and coherence all his life -- or perhaps an addiction to the murky and incoherent. Certainly a love of obfuscation. And in any event, a deep belief in "I lie, therefore I am."
A team of his highly qualified doctors is working on it.
1
@teach
Trump`s mental disorder defined: the DSM-5 defines Symptoms of Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD) are comprised of persistent manner of grandiosity, a continuous desire for admiration, along with a lack of empathy. It starts by early adulthood & occurs in a range of situations, as signified by the existence of any 5 of the next 9 standards (American Psychiatric Association, 2013):
1/ A grandiose logic of self-importance.
2/ A fixation with fantasies of infinite success, control, brilliance, beauty, or idyllic love.
3/ A credence that he or she is extraordinary and exceptional and can only be understood by, or should connect with, other extraordinary or important people or institutions.
4/A desire for unwarranted admiration.
5/ A sense of entitlement.
6/ Interpersonally oppressive behavior.
7/ No form of empathy.
8/ Resentment of others or a conviction that others are resentful of him or her.
9/ display of egotistical and conceited behaviors or attitudes
When you look at the above criteria for NPD, where you only need to exhibit 5 of the 9 standards for this disease, Trump hits every mark.
A Huffington Post article featured a letter written by three prominent psychiatry professors that cited President Trump’s “grandiosity, impulsivity, hypersensitivity to slights or criticism, and an apparent inability to distinguish between fantasy and reality” as evidence of his mental instability.
1
I have an old atlas that shows the whole area as Palestine. It is now just Israel. It’s similar to the appropriation of Aboriginal lands that has happened here in Canada and the US. But who are the Israelis? A different type of colonizer. One, who deservedly so, recognize a geographical area as their homeland, but this also considered a sacred place by Palestinians. This will not change. If Israel wants to exist and prosper it will have to sever its dependence on outside (mostly US) funding, make peace with its neighbours, and offer unfettered access and opportunity to them.
15
actually Jews are indigenous to the area. look up the definition. we've been trying to come to a peace agreement for 50 years but the Arabs have not been interested so, sadly, we've come to this but time for the Palestinians to take some responsibility for their situation
15
@Alison Truthfully, in recent years both sides haven't been interested in peace and 1 side has much more to lose with no peace!
3
@Alison So if people don't behave the way you want them to, it's their own fault when you put them in camps? Got it.
4
Don the Con hides his incompetency through the use of chaos creation on both the national and international stages. He bullies in one direction, then flaunts his authority in another with no policy in mind other than his appearance on TV everywhere.
He likes his stage and will do anything to stay there.
Failures on the national front have pushed him to the easier international arena for attention and he does not care about the carnage he is inspiring.
GOP, where are you? His destruction is on all of you.
9
America has lost its right to teach (and punish!)the World about international law(Crimea for instance) after the Golan decision.
17
@kienhuishenk
Syria attacked Israel in 1948, 1956 & 1973 & in between Syria fired artillery from the Golan Heights at the Israeli farmers down in the valley below. Syria's aggression should not go unpunished. Syria should lose the Golan Heights. Punishing aggression by taking territory can help deter potential aggressors. International law should be changed so that aggressors can be punished.
2
People of Israel will decide what’s best for them. What we need to do is to respect and honor democratic electoral choices that they make. Be it Netanyahu or someone else.
18
@Resident Absolutely, Resident. There's Israel and there's everything else -- or is there everything else?
Israel presents itself to the world as having high standards in relation to democracy and human rights. When you claim a high standard, the world will hold you to it. More is expected of Israel than the Palestinians because Israel has claimed to be better.
If Israel wants to be a country of democracy only for its Jewish citizens, then it may want to think more seriously about allowing a country of Arabs to form along side of it. I realize the difficulty, the history, and the politics, but having a country only of people who share an ethnicity, religion, and shared history may be difficult to square with true democracy.
5
@mike. You need to understand the difference between national rights and civil/political tights. As to the former, and enshrined in international law through the League of Nations Mandate for Palestine, today’s Israel is the recognized historical homeland of the Jewish people. As to the latter, everyone, regardless of religion, ethnicity, sexual orientation etc is guaranteed equal protection under the law. That’s not to pretend that it is perfectly applied, but name a Western styled democracy where it is. Humans are fallible and perfection is impossible.
When the PA and Hamas give up their dream of the destruction and replacement of the Jewish stare and begin preparing their people for living peacefully (as we understand that word, not as a “hudna”), then there might finally be a State of Palestine. Until then, what country would ever accept the current version as its next door neighbor? That simply a version of “do as I say, not as I do” hypocrisy.
2
@Charlie in NY
So were equivocating on rights? If only we could apply similar logic in Christian America to non Christian's.
2
While others ascribe a deeper agenda to Trump’s “efforts” in the Middle East, after more than two years of watching this presidency it is clear that deep is not an appropriate adjective to describe the superficial, transactional and generally unthinking approach Trump pretends is diplomacy. Trump reacts like a child. He responds viscerally to both praise and criticism and the result is incoherent and incompetent.
That is not to say that individual actors are not rewarded by stroking Trump’s ego as Putin and Netanyahu have learned to their benefit. Sadly none of this benefits the long term hope for a Middle East free of chaos; and nothing will be possible until Trump is gone.
50
@D. Smith
I’d suggest that stoking Trump’s ego is the operating principle of all who come into contact with the ‘child’ including Republicans in Congress, his staff, his son-in-law, leaders of countries such as, but not limited to, Saudi Arabia, Turkey, Russia (obviously): China, Japan, Israel, etc. The obvious problem is that he is uncontrollable and reckless. When this blows up, the blame will be widespread. It’s alarming every day as a citizen to realize how fragile our democracy is and how cowardly are those who could speak up and won’t.
6
@D. Smith
Well said. But I would emphasize that a “visceral” response to national and international issues is not per se a bad response. If Trump had some basic human character it would be a strength. While you admit that he’s basically a “child” and I agree, even children show empathy.
What the Trump regime shows me is that our election apparatus and so-called Trump “policy” is over-intellectualized. Stephen Miller, above all, thinks he’s an intellectual, as do the pundits at Fox News. Common sense, as Thomas Paine phrased it, is as much visceral as it is normative. Most often it’s not intellectual.
2
And some people really think it was Russia who pushed Trump into office? Please folks, get a grip! Trump has insisted all along that Russia had nothing to do with it. I suspect he knows what he's talking about, because he's not given one favor or gift to Russia along the way. The tail has been pinned on the wrong donkey, and that was the goal. Seems to have worked out quite nicely, hasn't it?
9
Actually Trump and Putin are both fully aligned on supporting Bibi in this election. Putin met Bibi a few days ago and also gave him a political gift in the form of the remains of a long missing Israeli soldier.
2
@Joe Landis Birds of a feather, perhaps? But, what has Trump given Russia, other than sanctions? There's a reason Bibi is getting major gifts...and it needs to be exposed.
3
@Joe Landis Joe, read between the lines of Karekin's comment. He's implying that "Jews and their Benjamins" etc. are pulling the strings. Another person we aren't allowed to call an Anti-Semite no matter what he says. Just ignore, there is never any point arguing with them.
3
So what's the difference between 'pushing the envelope' and forcing Israel's enemies into a corner? Nothing (ALL CAPS).
1
A careful look at Netanyahu's history shows that he was never in favor of a 2-state solution. Rather, his intent was always to kill or displace enough of the Palestinian population to make total annexation of the occupied territories practicable. Not surprising that his strongest allies in the US are farthest to the right (Trump, Adelson, Ted Cruz etc.)
34
@Jon Gordon It is important to remember that the establishment of the Democratic Party supports him unconditionally as well. It almost seems as if Chuck Schumer, Eliot Engel, Mike Pence, and Ted Cruz are one single person.
5
@Jon Gordon
There are more Palestinians in the West Bank now than ever before.
2
Trump is indeed Bibi’s chief enabler as he is constantly giving him political gifts on issues such as Jerusalem, Golan Heights, Iran, and Israeli sovereignty in the West Bank.
What does Trump get in return? Israeli policies that enrage Europe, i.e. creating more discord between the US and the EU and NATO. Meanwhile, Putin is smiling from the sidelines. It’s no coincidence that just a few days ago Putin and Bibi met, and Putin gave Bibi a gift in the form of the body of missing soldier returned after many years.
As usual, Trump and Putin are on the same side, with Israel and the Middle East being kicked around for their mutual and shared interests. While the rest of the world seethes.
24
Trump, the enabler of bigots, becomes the enabler as well of an Israeli prime minister who trades in the same forms of bigotry against Arabs and Palestinians. They need each other to provide cover against being charged with the bigotry that they flaunt and dispense in their political rhetoric. I worry that someday, sooner than later, lives will be sacrificed for what is nothing but their current political self-interests.
41
Well, we can see how over the last 30 years Brooklyn and Leningrad have exported radical religious fundamentalism and political extremism to Israel. The old mostly secular and social democratic European Israel is being replaced by a state embracing Third World authoritarianism, repression, and external aggression. It's a real tragedy.
78
@Mark Nuckols
According to Freedom House, Israel's Freedom Status is "Free." Israel is rated "1" (on a scale from 1 to 7 where 1 is most free.) in "political rights" and Israel is rated "2" in Civil Liberties."
Israel is the only state in the Middle East that is rated "Free."
Israel was ranked #26 by Global Democracy Rating
Even Palestinians think that Israel is a democracy.
“57% say democracy in Israel is good or very good”
2
Trump and Netanyahu admire each other because they share a disdain for lawful conduct, endlessly flexible ethics, personal corruption and rationalized racism. Peace? No. Piece of the action and more power? Yes.
72
They’re actually both incapable of admiring anyone. They’re just useful to each other in firing up their voting bases.
10
@sosonj
The share personality disorders.
One is a functioning psychopath the other is a malignant narcissist.
There is little distinction between the behavior of the two disorders - but there is distinction as to the cause - one is born by a deep seated wound and the other is genetic hardwiring of the brain.
In either case the presence of the two in high office is extremely troubling.
Trump is just more candid in revealing the US position on Israel. It has never really been any different. Obama was the first US President I can think of who was not completely unconditional in his support. He had HC to rein him in though. You at her record and don't kid yourself she would have take a different track.
13
This article speaks of a "2 state solution" as if nothing has happened since 2000 and is if the responsibility for achieving it resides solely with Israeli decision makers. The 2 State Solution is approaching Messianic status as something people continue to believe in despite every event and fact demonstrating it is no longer possible or desirable.
In 2000 and 2007 Israeli leaders offered democratically elected Palestinian leaders a viable Palestinian state and not only were both offers rejected but the Palestinians started wars, which they lost. 5th time this happened. Today there is no democratically elected Palestinian leadership so there is no way to resume negotiations. Remember Israel negotiated with an unelected government in Lebanon in the '80s, it meant nothing.
Times change. Israel is more secure, more prosperous, and achieved more international support because it won't negotiate with a Palestinian terror apparatus that denies due process, rule of law, and incites terror. Bibi is not "pushing the envelope" rather he is recognizing reality.
There are no limited liability wars. You're offered peace, you turn it down, you start a war, you lose, there's no 2nd chance. There is no reason for Israel to ever negotiate the security of its people with unelected terror inciting kleptocrats.
The 3/26 edition of Haaretz describes 6 plans which preserve a Jewish democracy and do not create another terror state like Gaza.
Better to read it than wait for the Messiah.
17
@jkemp I sometimes wonder why Israel took and kept Gaza and the West Bank. But the settlements in the West Bank show why Israel wanted that land. And, I imagine Israel had no reason to believe Egypt would restrain terrorism in Gaza.
1
@John Stewart
In 1967, Israel had to send its army into the West Bank to destroy the artillery that was firing at Israelis. That's how the occupation began.
Israel, unlike other occupiers (China, Russia, Morocco, Turkey) offered to end the occupation in return for a peace treaty. Israel is getting tired of waiting.
3
@m1945 It has peace with Egypt and Jordan.
“While Mr. Trump’s moves have been unstintingly pro-Israel, some could also be interpreted as a way to pressure the Palestinians to come back to the bargaining table.”
What a ridiculous statement. As though Trump and his fanatically pro-Israel administration wanted negotiations to happen or thought that they’d be advantageous to either party. As though after all the failed negotiations of the past and all the pressure placed on Palestinians to submit and the insults which Trump has hurled upon them, that one more try might succeed.
But one does understand the reporter’s desire to discern a convincing motive for Trump’s “unstinting” pro-Israelism. It might seem very mysterious. After all Trump campaigned in early 2016 on the promise that when he tackled the Israel-Palestine issue he would “remain neutral” and not take sides.
Trump’s “neutral” talk alarmed many Republican Jewish voters and in particular wealthy donors to the Republican Party such as billionaire Sheldon Adelson. But it didn’t take long for Trump to come around. Today all the senior national-security and foreign-policy officials in the Trump administration are Adelson-certified. For example John Bolton. And every one of Trump’s recent decisions about Israel-Palestine has been a pure gift to Netanyahu, who is Adelson’s boy and rather in need of all the help he can get while he runs for re-election under a cloud of corruption.
Trump’s motives are in plain sight.
53
@FB “While Mr. Trump’s moves have been unstintingly pro-Israel, some could also be interpreted as a way to pressure the Palestinians to come back to the bargaining table.”
And who is at the "bargaining table" for the US? Kushner and company, an American Jew with business interests in Israel. What Palestinian in his or her right might would accept the false promise of "in good faith" bargaining from the US?
10
@DaveG
Palestinians leaders have become very wealthy. Arafat had a net worth of $1 billion, Abbas $100 million, Abu Marzouk $2-3 billion, Khaled Mashaal, $2.6 billion. It literally pays not to make peace.
1
“Annexation of the West Bank” is just a euphemism for “ethnic cleansing of the Palestinians.”
Since Israel’s annexation of the West Bank doesn’t occur, and hasn’t occurred, without demolishing Palestinians homes and expelling families from these homes, what Netanyahu is essentially promising is an accelerated form of ethnic cleansing.
Let’s just call it for what it is.
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@Saul You are absolutely correct! It is ethnic cleansing and cultural genocide, as well. The Turks did it to the Armenians in 1915, and Israel now has it as state policy, courtesy of Bibi. Democracy? What a farce.
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As an Israeli, I think annexation or any other form of Israeli sovereignty over the West Bank would be tragic for all sides. Nevertheless, it’s important to keep the facts straight: There has not been large scale demolition of homes nor transfer of Palestinians since the West Bank was conquered by Israel in the 1967 war.
There is indeed the troubling issue of the ruin of Israeli democracy that is occurring via the occupation of the West Bank. There is the concern that Israel may become the next South Africa. But “ethnic cleansing “ as happened in the Balkans and elsewhere is not what has occurred here and I don’t see this happening.
It’s not helpful to inflame the rhetoric more than needed, beyond the realm of reality.
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@Karekin The Turks killed 1.5 million people but in the mindset of some on this board it's the same thing as what Israel is doing right now. Why is that? In today's times there is an article on how China gets away with imprisoning over 1 million Muslims but is praised anyway by the 57 Arab countries who want to do business with them. So please spare the righteous indignation and try focusing your outrage proportionately and not just on the Jewish State.
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I just saw a map of Israeli settlements in the West Bank on CNN, and our o curiosity checked how many of them there are. There are 121 authorized settlements and 101 unauthorized ones. They are all over the supposed Palestinian land. If Netanyahu goes through with his threat to declare Israeli sovereignty in the settlements, the idea of a two state solution is definitely dead and no amount of diplomatic amateurism by Kushner can revive it. It is becoming clear that Palestinians will be better off by abandoning their impossible dream and accept that they will be better off in a unitary state. Once that occurs "de lege" in stead of de facto as it is now, Israel will have to decide whether to become an apartheid state or give Palestinians the full rights that they now do not possess. Netanyahu will have brought about the end of the Jewish state. The best example of be aware of what you wish because he may get it.
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@Frank Casa Kushner's "peace plan" never had anything to do with 2 states, only 1!
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@Frank Casa Arab birth rates are higher than Jewish birth rates. A one-state solution can only further lead to an Israel that is fully an Apartheid state. And like with South Africa in the last century, it will only further justify boycotting Israeli goods and services.
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@Frank Casa
Settlements are actually good for a 2-state solution.
Draw a border. Settlements on the Palestinian side of the border become part of Palestine. Settlers become Palestinian citizens. Because settlers are generally wealthier than Palestinians, the presence of the settlers helps to make a Palestinian state economically viable.
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is it possible that Trump is confusing the border situations in Israel and the Rio Grande, without any consideration that they are very different?
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Pres, Trump is being played by the Israeli government and Jewish lobbyists. Not only does Netanyahu's comments about annexing the West Bank (not that he ever pretended to support a 2 state solution anyway) portray a leader who knows the US will back him no matter what, but Trump's designation of The Revolutionary Guard as a terrorist organisation has Netanyahu written all over it. Surely, by now, the US knows that the major terrorists Al Qaeda and ISIS are Sunni Muslims backed by the Saudis while Iran is a Shiite state. So "restrictive" is Iran that the majority of University students are women and friends have visited Iran on a number of occasions with no problems.
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@Gary...from The Intercept: ON THE EVE of Israel’s election, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu took credit for President Donald Trump’s decision to impose sanctions on Iran’s powerful Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps, by designating it a foreign terrorist organization.
“Thank you, my dear friend, President Donald Trump,” Netanyahu tweeted in Hebrew, “for answering another one of my important requests.”
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@Gary
Trump is being played by the End Times fundamentalist Christians who are his base of support. They are totally in bed with Netanyahu and, no doubt, laugh at each other behind the other's backs (I'm sure Netanyahu does).
To call them 'evangelical' minimizes the depths of their extremism to end the world & facilitate the Second Coming of Christ; clearly, they don't think the Lord can handle it without their help.
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Don't underestimate Trump. The moving of the embassy to Jerusalem, the Golan Sovereignty Statement, the declaration of Iran's Revolutionary Guard as a terrorist organization---he will use these "gifts" to play hardball in eventually pressuring Israel to accept his peace plan---a deal in which he wants to cement his legacy as the only US President to end hostilities between Israel and the Palestinians. But with Hamas in control of Gaza and Abbas in control of Palestinian Areas A, B and C, the division amongst Palestinians will make any peace plan a long shot.
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@Reuven Taff
Yes, it’s all about Abbas. He’s the obstacle to peace. The ethnic cleansing of the Palestinians in the West Bank is certainly not an obstacle to peace. Abbas, who operates as Israel’s chief of police in the West Bank, who would do anything for Israel to get his international funding that he embezzles from the Palestinian people, has been the obstacle all along. Not the settlement, not the demolition of homes, not the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians, not the theft of resources and land, not the arbitrary arrest of innocent civilians, not the road blocks, not the taxation of imported goods... it’s Abbas. I’m convinced.
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Area C is NOT under Palestinian control. It is fully and exclusively under Israeli control. As for that “peace plan” it will be a sick joke of course, an endorsement of racism and colonialism.
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The Palestinians will never accept a two state solution, or recognize Israel's right to exist. Remember history when Clinton was President. Israel conceded 97% of the land that Arafat requested, and Arafat rejected the deal..."because it was not 100%."
It is time for a reality check. Much of the money sent to aid Palestinians went to a corrupt government. The enormous amount of money spent by Hamas building tunnels in order attack Israel could have been spent to aid their citizens. The only compromise they will accept is the destruction of Israel.
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@Michael Kentor That remaining 3% was roads cutting through the collection of bantustans left for the Palestinians. The offer on the table was a collection of reservations for the Palestinians, which they were right to reject. And Israel already occupies 80% of historical Palestine. Don't make it out to sound like overreach that the Palestinians balked at anything but 100% of the remaining part.
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@Michael Kentor I remember the Oslo agreement and how disastrous it turned out to be. Israel has a long history of putting some poison pills in the fine prints of agreements.
Anyone who follows negotiations knows that parties take time to arrive at common ground and that in the end they will accept some points that they earlier rejected. It is not Arafat you should blame for rejecting some deals but Israel - that by promptly withdrawing those proposals showed that it was never serious about them.
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@Michael Kentor What the Palestinians do or don't agree to is completely irrelevant in this situation. Even if you believe that the lack of peace in the region is entirely due to Palestinian intransigence, that has absolutely nothing to do with Israel's illegal settlement of Palestinian land. Palestinian diplomatic refusal does not create, in any universe, an excuse for Israel to steal Palestinian land. It does not make land theft and illegal settlement any more legal. This obvious point seems beyond the ability of many of Israel's loyalists to grasp. If Israel was concerned primarily about security, putting hundreds of thousands of settlers in Palestine is the last thing it should do. It could control the territories entirely through military outposts, without adding the additional provocation and complication of having to protect settlers. But, of course, for Israel it is not about peace - it is about stealing land and using every excuse to avoid making peace with the Palestinians (including provoking them beyond tolerance) in order to keep building settlements, leading to exactly the outcome that Netanyahu is proudly announcing now.
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The existing policies did not bring about peace even with Israel relinquishing control over the Sinai, Gaza, Hebron, Jericho and other portions of Israel which were gained in DEFENSIVE struggles against its neighbors.
Perhaps these new policies will encourage the Palestinian Authority (if it does indeed represent Palestinian Arabs) to see reality and pursue a just and sustainable peace.
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@Dr. Sam Rosenblum "The bride is beautiful, but is already married." Who said that again? Who is fighting the defensive war here?
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