no comment on any possible differences between IND and BMT trains.
1
As a friend of mine said some 30 years ago, when we were both living in New York, "You just have to make your peace with the F train." Apparently that's still true.
2
Cuomo wants his congestion pricing come hell or high water - he doesn't care that it can't be justified, that he will destroy so many things in NYC with illegal tax (b/c that's what the congestion pricing is, an illegal tax); that the money will NOT go to what he SAYS it will go to; and that NOBODY in their right mind trusts either Cuomo or the MTA.
Cuomo wants to say he got congestion pricing passed, and that is his ONLY bottom line.
If you think Cuomo cares about anything but his own image, then you are deluded. Nothing matters unless it makes Cuomo look (and feel!) good - the 8+ million residents of this area DO NOT MATTER to him one iota; whether people can get around this city in a reasonable way DOES NOT MATTER to him one iota.
His only goals are CONTROL and POWER. Everything Cuomo does is toward that end, full stop!
4
As a native N Yorker who loves the city and its people, it is awful to see such abuse that people have to face every day. The subways are dirty and overcrowded. The stations look like they were built in the 30's and were never upgraded. They are steaming hot in the summer. On my travels to Germany, Austria, Britain, Denmark and France I felt like I was floating on air with their efficient public transportation. New Yorkers need to have the best high tech subway on the planet, they deserve it. And we deserve to build it right here in the USA providing jobs and hope for the future. Why not monorail, light rail, mag lev trains and trams? Or just some modern subway cars and decent healthy stations? Heck, here in the Bay Area we just got a host of new subway cars that are terrific. If someone is proposing a New Deal around here, I'd start with America's premiere metropolis, New York City. Built by and for Americans/
A very wise man once told me that we could build a city in the desert in a day if we had the will.
3
Always has been that way.
1
Getting better? Tell it to the N, R & W riders whose trains may ru or may not run; one never knows.
1
"Numbered" lines? "Lettered" lines?
Oh, for the days of IRT, BMT, and IND! At least the trains ran on-time then! At least, I think so...
3
Recalling the dreamland. The USA used to be better in everything: democracy, education, economy, infrastructure. Today, they‘re an embarrassing shadow of their former self. Only the original spirit of Real America, the unmanipulated educated citizen with its prevailing system of values can mitigate America‘s new reputation of being a biased (GOP), economically aggressive (google et al.), self-centered (Trump), corrupt (Trump, college-bribing meritocracy et al.), modern-day oligarchy (you name them yourself) while US infrastructure is in a regrettable state today (looking at traintrack rivers when there is rain in Manhattan)
5
There’s a schedule....?? Not once in the 25 years that I’ve lived here have I ever said something like “oh, I better hurry up so that I can catch the 5:12 A train!”
5
I've been living in NYC for 12 years and the subway system is abhorrent! Always dirty, always smelly, always late. Take your pick, any line, I bet not one New Yorker goes to where they are going and after being on the subway says 'WOW, WHAT A GREAT EXPERIENCE THAT WAS, I CAN'T WAIT TO USE THIS SERVICE AGAIN.' No one! Since when did society say 5 minutes past schedule is on time? Show up to work 5 minutes late to work everyday and see what your boss says! This article is a desperate attempt to spin positive light on the MTA. New Yorkers are not dumb, the subway system is no more than a heavily mismanaged government joke. Raise your standards MTA!! #lateisnotontime
4
NYC infrastructure has collapsed. Gentrification is neocolonialism. Resistance is futile.
2
How did the reporter manage to write an article about the numbered and lettered lines without even mentioning what makes those lines different from each other? Many people reading the paper will know nothing about the history of the IRT, BMT and IND systems. By failing to mentioning this history, the writer (or her editor) takes an interesting subject and turns it into nonsense.
13
Well, of course! The 4,5, and 6 all run between Wall Street and the Upper East Side. Can’t leave Masters of the Universe waiting for the train!
4
I am not sure if measuring the arrival time at the last stop of each train is necessarily a good measure of train service. Hypothetically, every train could run seven minutes late and the line would have a zero percent on-time percentage. But if each of those trains arrives at the same intervals as the schedule, then there shouldn't really be an issue with service. The better measure is the time interval between the arrival of each train at each station. So long as the time intervals are the same as set forth in the schedule then there shouldn't really be any issue.
6
NYC complains about the subway, SF about the BART, Boston about the T, DC about Metro . . .
It's the same story - infrastructure that was built 5 or 6 decades ago with a capacity that's a fraction of today's ridership.
3
On Saturday night, I took the D from the Bronx. It went out at W. 4th St. Then, at Jay St., the train sat there, no announcement. As I was already late to meet someone, I did what I have had to do so often: I hailed a cab. $16 later, I arrived. To get back home was worse. I understand maintenance has to catch up because it stopped for decades. And I appreciate that it's the only system in the world that's 24/365. But there has to be room in the MTA's budget to hire, say more people who can keep the public informed?
2
The subways actually work pretty well. So do other city services, despite grumbling and room for improvement. All in all. I come originally from Boston. The subways shut down around midnight, and one walts MUCH longer for trains at all times including rush hour.
5
The MTA considers trains that arrive 8 minutes late as “on-time.” MTA’s communication systems were designed when Ulysses S. Grant was still alive; they are so old and ineffective that the MTA can only estimate the location of their operating trains. This, these “improving” statistics are 100% false.
It’s not rocket science. We know the solution to effective urban transit: privatization and lower labor/construction costs. Horrible service is the trade off New Yorkers get for choosing to support a government-run monopoly with absurd labor costs, “the most expensive mile of track on earth,” and an annual debt service that exceeds some states’ entire annual budget.
You can’t have it both ways: either expect continual poor service from the MTA or begin asking for whole-system change like privatization. Trying to improve the current system is like wondering what color to paint the walls when the whole building is on fire. Time for a new system, new approach, and new model.
And don’t play the broken “worker’s rights argument.” I know MTA managers who have higher salaries than ER doctors.
What you get is what you pay for. In this case NYers subsidize jobs and a bloated bureaucracy at the expense of effective transit (which in turn hurts the 5-borough and tri-state economy, decreases the state’s population, and prevents further job creation).
Another route is possible: an effective free-market solution driven by profit, not corruption.
Boom. Roasted. Read a book.
1
While every experienced NYer knows there will be homeless camping out on the E line, they are very much present on the busy M line. Yesterday there were "campers" at each end of a car I tried to board. Today there was an awful looking smear along one of the long middle seats. The MTA needs to take some action about this. The M terminates at 71st Street and everyone is supposed to get off, so why are the campers there at 67th, after the turn-around? I know, I know, I wouldn't want to deal with them myself, but it must be somebody's job to clear the train!
8
I recently came back from London and rode their tube (equivalent of our subway) a few times. I actually enjoyed it as opposed to loathing the Manhattan number 6 subway line at rush hour.
What I found wonderful was there were workers at every station who were available for questions. They wore shirts that read on the back that if you needed help just ask. They helped me put money on my Oyster card (equivalent of our metro card) and gave me directions to reach my destinations. I got off at a stop and had difficulty finding my way to Picadilly. One of the workers actually ran after me to give me directions. I was in a state of shock because this would never have happened in New York City. I was not used to such kindness. They were polite and very helpful. These workers should come here and give our subway and bus workers lessons on how to treat their riders. They could teach our workers about civility.
5
How much did it cost to ride the London tube? Bet it’s more than a NYC transit ride.
3
@WPLMMT I lived in London. Past midnight, it was either a very expensive cab ride or three buses and a long walk to get home.
3
Oh I don’t miss the 4,5, or 6! Used to be called “the mugger line”.
3
I'm surprised that they spent $800 million on the Subway Action Plan,This article included nothing about the homeless people that live in the subway.Sometimes you cannot enter a cart due to the odor of the cart.? The money could of been used differently so that a portions went into different causes of an entire system with problems.You want to get to work on time leave before your scheduled to work.Simple, Care for the homeless,& train people that don't have jobs to work as operator's
2
@F train Rider uhm... to operate a train you actually have to be somewhat together. You know, basic education, good character, above average health snd self discipline.....
On-time rate is a silly metric to use. Wait time is much more important. If there is supposed to be a 5-minute headway, for example, what % of the time do you have to wait more than 5 minutes for a train? More than 8 minutes? I don't care if the train that comes at 5:05 was supposed to come at 4:45, as long as I didn't have to wait very long for it to come.
7
I think has something to do with when the lines were built in the first place. The IRT lines were better and have stayed that way ever since. Better equipment, better routes, etc.
2
When the hustler Andy Byford was imported to run the subway system, I was hoping his version of Three-card Monte was better than the ones previous administrators had pulled upon us. But, no.
He's as honest as Donald Trump and lazy as Bill de Blasio but his speaking-accent makes the baloney he is spewing sound nicer. He is as useless as his predecessors so perhaps he'll run for mayor in the next election and claim he made the subways run at 150 percent of their capabilities.
2
Yes the trains are much faster and much more on time. Seems Andy Byford is getting a handle on things.
3
Nothing like a bunch of New Yorkers kvetching.
Informed, wry, hilarious.
Ugh, miss you NYC!
5
I get the best and worst of New York and Los Angeles! LA is totally out of control and at least in New York you can consider public transportation but in Los Angeles so many psycho events - on time schedule is ok I hear. The line to the ocean will be a crime and psycho nightmare!!
Dear fellow New Yorkers,
Regardless of what subway lines you use, please contact your elected representatives in Albany and make this clear to them:
Either you vote to fund the Byford plan to overhaul New York City Public Transit, or you're out. No ifs, ands or buts. Get it done now, or loose your seat. No excuses! Sincerely, Your Voter.
8
Bragging about improved on time performance after revising schedules to increase running times is disingenuous. However, that is not to say that the alterations were not necessary. Changes in ridership and loading patterns necessitate the creation of new schedules and frankly, they should have been made sooner. However, the MTA should not compare apples to oranges and then take credit for the improved results.
4
Of course, the unacknowledged problem with the trains, either lettered or numbered, is, like so many NYC operations, that they are run from Albany.
Usually, nothing gets past the Upstate crowd until NYC "negotiates" for it. The end result is that NYC pays about $2 in taxes for every $1 it gets to spend.
Upstate has been living off our money for about a century and a half. Don't expect any significant progress on infrastructure, etc. as long as that continues.
But we will never get to equity as long as Albany controls so many of our actions.
19
@Brian If you think City Hall can run it better, I have a bridge to Brooklyn to sell you.
I have ridden subway systems in several countries and cities. We have BART here which seem to be on time most of the time, but no all of it is subway, much of it above ground on dedicated track so no traffic problems. I do not know the on time rate, but it seems pretty good, the system is overloaded however.
We were in Boston last summer and the subway system there seemed to be pretty good, everything we rode was on time, crowded but reliable. The Paris Metro i huge and seems run on time, and the Madrid Metro is as big as any, yet seems to be working well, I did not hear any complaints, and the Barcelona system was also fast and effective. None of these places are as wealthy as NYC but have better subway and metro systems.
As far as I can tell, it is the American resistance to funding such projects that are behind these problems. We need HSR Sacrament to SF Bay Area, it will no happen in my lifetime. Same as San Diego LA, not if the anti tax crowd rules the road.
4
Does it have anything to do with how the different lines were originally constructed? The numbers used to be on the IRT company lines (Interboro Rapid Transit). Lettered lines were the BMT and IND companies.
43
@Horace. Yes, I was shocked that an article in the Times didn't mention that the numbered lines are the IRT, and the lettered lines are the BMT and the IND. Well into the 70's people still talked about the subway that way, "I'll grab the IRT up to 72nd street." They have a different gauge, the IRT lines are narrower.
89
@Horace Perhaps. The letter trains have larger cars and passenger loading time figures into things. The IND has more spacious stations. Things on the older IRT might have already been replaced.
8
The gauge is the same, the car body sizes are different. IRT cars can run on the BMT/IND but not vice versa. Garbage collection trains overnight use old IRT cars because they can go anywhere in the system, including BMT/IND.
35
I commuted to NYC for nearly 10 years. Never knew there was a schedule. Just thought the trains arrived whenever they arrived. Chalked it up to “island time”.
142
@SXM I lived in NYC for eight years on the UWS. I commuted to Brooklyn and lower Manhattan every day. I never even knew there was a schedule...just 'the next one will be along eventually'
26
@Casey
Even the busses have a schedule. Go figure. They would do best to advertise an estimated frequency.
9
@Charles You can find all bus and subway schedules on mta.info.
2
I spent a decade in NYC some time back, in grad school studying transportation no less, and I rode the subways a lot then. But I never understood, and don't understand to this day, what "on-time" means relative the subway rider's experience. Put it this way -- If one goes down to the platform and gets on the next train, and it gets one to his destination in the normally expected time, what difference does it make to the rider that that particular train was running "late" based on some schedule back in the dispatch office? Naturally if it becomes more delayed while aboard, that may (or may not) matter, but the basic question remains. What difference does running "on-time" really make for the customer who simply gets on the next train that comes along irrespective of its number on some schedule that he never sees and doesn't care about.
Curious minds want to know.
65
@John Binkley If trains are late, it increases headways (time between trains) and increases wait times. It also has ripple effects down the line, causing further delays.
11
@Eric Murphy I understand that, but it's not a 1:1 relationship. Even if trains are late, if the same number of trains run those effects won't be pronounced. In any case, wouldn't it be better to measure those effects rather than lateness, which is a poor proxy for the real issue at hand?? For example, average time between trains would be a much better measure for the effect you mention, and my point is that lateness is always used as the measure of system performance when in fact it is a poor measure.
21
@John Binkley Of course the effects will be pronounced. The schedule is designed to meet certain goals: load guidelines, headways, etc. When a train is late, it increases headways and train load, causing further delays, which then delay trains behind it. Compounding this problem is the fact that the NYC subway is extremely interlined, so you've got dozens of further points of failure.
3
Interesting that five minutes late is considered on time. In Tokyo, if a train is 30 seconds late the subway system is required to do an investigation and report. This is all just culture and society's expectations.
65
@Tom. Yes, one way to massage the numbers is moving the goalpost. If we would use the 30 second mark to declare a train as being late, I doubt the MTA's numbers would get above the single percentage range.
12
@Pete in Downtown
Would be 0%
1
I've ridden the subways for nearly forty years and feel more abused by the subway system than at any time before. Rush hour on the subways in my version of hell.
And what schedule? What improvement? My observation is that subway trains come any old time they feel like it and always have.
One of the most egregious transgressions is standing on a train with open doors, for example on the 2 line, while a connecting train, the 1, pulls in across the platform. The 2 closes its doors just as the 1 opens.
Years ago Ed Koch called conductors cowboys for the way they drove the trains. Now it seems conductors think they are in a demolition derby. It is kind of uncomfortable to have someone thrown in your lap because they lost their balance due to how the conductor is driving.
It is painfully obvious that fewer trains are running in general. Even at off hours it has become nearly impossible to get a seat. I attend the theater frequently but have stopped taking trains home after a show because the trains are completely unreliable after 10 pm.
I understand the infrastructure of the subways is over a hundred years old and crumbling. I also understand that the subway leadership is, to put it kindly, foolish. Do they even ride the subways? I sincerely doubt it.
In the month I moved New York, a token went from 50 cents to 60 cents. Now I pay $2.75 for the privilege of being abused by the MTA.
52
Train Operator (Motorman) operates train. Conductor operates doors and PA. And, the Conductor is in charge of the train.
7
@fFinbar
Thank you for the clarification. The point remains the same.
4
@fFinbar Which brings up another point. The NYC Subway is about the only metro system in the world that still requires two professionals to operate the train. Most cities are at 1, and some trains are now driverless.
6
I don't quite understand this article. "On time"? That means not much to me. I just get on the next train coming. And the numbered ones vs the lettered ones? Here in Crown Heights, Brooklyn at the two different Nostrand stops, it is better to take the fast "A" train than the rustic "3" train. They've even written songs about the "A" train such as Duke Ellington's:
"You must take the 'A' train
To go Sugar Hill 'way up in Harlem
If you miss the 'A' train
You'll find you've missed the quickest way to Harlem
Hurry, get on now it's coming
Listen to those rails a thrumming
All 'board get on the 'A' train
Soon you will be on Sugar Hill in Harlem"
17
Something about traveling cross town! Always a problem, bus, taxi doesn't matter.
13
@j24 It's called "traffic."
2
@j24 There should be a 34th Street Crosstown line.
4
How many spring days did I flash my bus pass in 1964 and 1965, and end up at Manhattan Beach instead of Andreas Hudde JHS 240??? That warm sun and salt air felt wonderful.
5
@MstrTwister That was the Q train.
As someone who has taken an R train, to an N train, to a 4/5/6 to Grand Central every day for the past 5 years I can confidently say that "adjusting schedules to accurately reflect actual system conditions allows for less train congestion and faster more reliable service" is not rooted in any reality that commuters face at ALL. There may be less train congestion, but it doesn't matter when you have to wait for 2 or 3 trains to go by before you can actually get INTO one because they are so packed with people.
The idea that we listen to anything the MTA board says anymore is completely ludicrous and its criminal what they've done to New Yorkers. This will be Cuomo's unfortunate legacy.
Also it would be awesome to get real rider's quotes for these articles vs. riders who also happen to be board members.
24
Past August I was in Hong Kong and Guangzhou China, subways there are crowded, but at least every 2 minutes there are train on schedule and AC in the station. NYC subway is beyond repair....
9
I'm surprised at the amount of groaning in this comments section, actually. I have noticed improvements, and I ride the subway A LOT, as I'm constantly moving around town. They still have a long way to go, and I'm sure Andy Byford is very well aware of that—he's the person in the subway leadership that I have real faith is working in the best interests of everyday New Yorkers—but I'm certain I'm not making up the positive changes I've been seeing.
I think it really is necessary to acknowledge the depth of the crisis we're in the midst of coming out of; it was never going to happen overnight. What IS completely unacceptable, however, is the state government in Albany STILL not managing to get their act together on funding Mr. Byford's plan, even though there's finally unified government. I'm hoping this is all budget theatrics and that they'll get this stuff hashed out; the whole metro area depends upon it.
15
visited New York recently, found the numbered lines a joke. one method they seem to use to stay closer to schedule is suddenly skipping a series of stations with no warning.
7
@poins And the T? Perfection on rails?
1
My husband grew up in NYC and used to take the subways to baseball games and to sit in the audiences of various shows.
For him, the subways represented freedom of movement before he turned 18 and moved to the West Coast.
I hope your subway system continues to improve so that you will also feel that you have freedom of movement. Good luck!
6
Why doesn't the MTA focus on the suicide problem?
According to a study by Gershon (2008) there were 343 suicides on the subways between 1990 and 2003 which comes out to be about 2 per month. The latest number I have seen published is 43 a year or 3.5 per month. Seems to be a growing problem!
Gershon repeated a conclusion of a Vienna, Austria study that blamed "irresponsible media coverage" for most suicides on the subway. (Bring me your hogs, because I have something to wash them with.)
Currently the MTA has a silence policy that hides any mention of suicides and instead calls them police activity or passenger illness etc. The policy only angers delayed passengers and the suicide incidence rate appears to be increasing. Does Mr. Byford know what is going on?
Making sure that potential "jumpers" know that their final action can delay tens of thousands of others that cost countless hours of paid work, might be a better way to reduce the ongoing suicide problem.
2
@mikek I doubt that suicides are thinking about other people at that point in their lives. If they were, they wouldn't jump in front of a subway train in the first place, causing trauma for the train driver that will last for the rest of his or her life.
14
@Barry Short
That's the point. It would be better if they did think of others, especially those worse off than them
1
This would be interesting if the L wasn't the best performing line in the system. And the A is aways a top 3 worst performer. Too bad; everyone likes a good ghost story.
2
With the MTA, as long as you schedule yourself to be late, you'll be right on time.
6
Well. .... last night after Ranger game, went to the ABC lines, paid my fare ( the white kid in front of me merely jumped the turnstile - the new normal). B and C was blocked off with tape. Went to A and a lone mta employee said no A train downtown go to BC ignore the tape. So we did and waited dozens of passengers. No trains. At all. So left went to 1 2 & 3 trains. There was maybe 5 mta employees standing in front. We told them we paid already and they let us in without paying again. I asked why they are all standing there at IRT when 8th ave is down and no one is telling people. Passengers continued to swipe on even if trains. No response.
8
I loved the F train when I lived in Brooklyn. It goes through so many interesting neighborhoods from Brooklyn to Manhattan to Queens. There are too numerous to list.
If one wanted to experience a fascinating slice of NYC (not just Manhattan), one could simply stop at every stop along the F train and explore. The F never reaches the UPW or UPE, but is all the more a standout because of that.
7
I think it has always been the case that the numbered lines have more trains and shorter waits. I grew up in the Bronx 50 years ago and was dependent on the D train for many years. I knew that if I missed a train I’d have at least a 15 or 20 minute wait. When I moved to Manhattan I was happy to depend on the the #1 local, which runs every 7 minutes or so. Also, the numbered lines have the overhead announcer that tells you how long you need to wait; the lettered lines keep you in ignorance.
5
I left Brooklyn and the 'D' train immediately upon turning 18. Apparently the subways have changed not a bit in the intervening 45 years.
2
If you want to experience a metro system that actually works and is a pleasure to use, then take a ride on the Madrid Metro. The oldest line is now celebrating 100 years and has expanded from 8 stops to more than 30. There are also 12 other lines serving the city, plus 3 light rail lines connecting to the suburbs, along with the suburban railway, the Cercanías. The metro always runs on time, is inexpensive to use and is clean. It also serves a metropolitan area of more than 6 million people, and has an App so you can plan your days travel across the city.
The difference between NY and Madrid seems to be one of control. EMT handles all public transportation systems in Madrid, similar to the way every city in Spain works. It’s not broken up into little fiefdoms, fighting over control and budgets, and works with the national rail system, Renfe, something we definitely need. I guess you can say it’s Socialism at work. Sure there are always issues, but the system works.
13
Makes you wish the desire to do great things in America (I couldn't bring myself to use that other phrase) included world class infrastructure. Last subway I rode on was a couple years ago, the Metro in Paris. It's runs like a "Swiss watch". Why can't that be the metric to attain. The Japanese? Forgeddaboutit, we'll never match them.
14
There is a structural reason for the on-time differences. The numbered lines run for long stretches without merges the 2/3/4/5 basically merge once in The Bronx and once in Brooklyn. The 7 is totally isolated. The lettered lines have more interconnections which causes problems when trains are even a minute behind schedule (think about heading northbound into 59th Street-Columbus Circle or waiting on a northbound NRW train at 34th Street for a train to cross over). The L is like the 7 - isolated, and with updated signals, and few problems.
38
It seems to me that this article is really about trying to get the readership to accept more service cuts! Sure, there are fewer trains, and they are more and more packed..... but they are "on-time". You will not be on time. You will be late because you had to wait longer for that train, and maybe couldn't even get on a train or two because they were so packed. But the "schedule"! Whatever is happening now is even worse than the oxy-moronic "fast track" which was an unbelievably bad policy. This new head of the MTA sucks and he should return to Toronto. Maybe it's also time for the government to stop using the MTA like an ATM. I still want to know what happened to that "surplus" which seemed to disappear overnight about 10 years (?) or so ago.
6
The MTA seems too lazy (or maybe there is some more calculated motivation) to create a meaningful performance metric. If a train runs close to schedule for its entire route and then waits a few minutes outside its terminal for a track to become available, it's considered late. A train that arrives 45 minutes late because of a signal failure considered no later than one that arrives 7 minutes late because of a sick passenger. How about developing a metric that correlates a little better with passenger suffering?
9
@Harvey Wachtel
Because then the rubes would be able to see it in writing, which is bad for the Mayor and the Governor both. But I think you figured that out already ;-p
1
Quote: "The F train has a miserable on-time rate of about 50 percent — the lowest in the system."
Well, maybe you should've thought twice before naming it that, "F-train". What exactly did you expect?
30
The numbered trains are just as bad. Talking about you number 6. Overcrowded, late, rude employees, filthy stations, I can go on. Why are we waiting over ten minutes during rush hour for a train? The platform get packed, a train finally pulls in, and then bedlam ensues. Can't get on, can't get off, tempers flare. I grew up riding the subways, but it's gotten much worse.
14
@Richard O
Yes! The 6 is just awful. You left out the multiple door closings and openings before the train can finally move on to the next station. Torture.
6
From 1954-1972 I rode the E or the F from Union Turnpike into Manhattan and the D up to Yankee Stadium and the Polo Grounds.
My favorite ride was on the E all the way to end at Cortlandt Street.
I never had much complaint with train service except for the lack of AC.
In 1960, 1964,1965,1968,and 1970-72 I did ride on the London Tube and the Paris Metro. Those systems were a little easier to use but pretty much a subway is a subway.
3
@adara614
That may have been true then, but the quality of subways and their service varies widely now. Paris and London have old systems (like NY), but they can still install new lines (some completely automated and safe) within a few years, certainly less than a decade. I grew up in the 60s. My dad used to tell me that "someday" the Second Ave subway would open. It took NY 100 years. And its tunnel is the most expensive in the world, owing to graft and corruption.
In the US, we have new systems that are clean but problem-ridden (SF, DC) and others that are clean but not very extensive (Atlanta).
Meanwhile, Seoul, Tokyo, Beijing, Shanghai all have immaculate, modern, safe subway systems that have surpassed ours.
With no pizza rats.
7
@Danny
Don't forget the Paris metro's rubber tires. Quieter, smoother rides for passengers, less noise in the station.
Not sure why more systems don't emulate Paris in their use.
2
@DD NYC's is much older. It's easy to be modern when you're building in modern times.
1
I use the 4 train daily from midtown to The Bronx. Typical PM rush hour trains unexpectedly announce at 161st "next stop Burnside Ave" and half of the riders have to get off bypassing all the stations in between. MTA does this so that they can get to Woodlawn on schedule. Would also be nice if the MTA could keep the people off the system that are just using the trains as a place to go- hang out, play music, beg for money, break dance, stay warm/cool.
9
I love reading about the pain of the NYC subway system; online and from San Diego!
3
This Sunday afternoon I was in a Brooklyn bound A train, at one stop, the train stopped at the platform, but the doors didn’t open, and it went on the the next stop. No announcement, I and others stood to get out, people were trying to get in from the platform - but none of the DOORS opened. We simply carried on as if that stop had happened.
5
My most regularly used lines - G, E, M and 7 - seem all to run just fine, but they have to send out a search party if you try to take a Brooklyn-bound L at Union Square during evening rush hour, and the Lexington local does seem to be less crowded, and consequently runs pretty well, since the 2nd Avenue line finally opened (the waiting time for the latter was 75 years, so who cares if it is now 5 minutes late?). Maybe the solution to the god-awful bus system is to have the buses take the subway to their destinations, but the cost of building the elevators needed to effect such a sensible change is surely prohibitive.
5
"But Mr. Byford’s plan to modernize the entire subway will cost billions of dollars, and it is not clear whether state leaders will approve new funding streams for the transit system this year."
Ah, ha! The ol' elephant in the room.
8
I rode the subway just this weekend and it was certainly not an enjoyable experience. It continues to amaze me that a region of the country responsible for nearly 10% of the GDP of the entire United States has to suffer with such a decrepit system.
23
The ‘tale of two subways’ mirrors the larger infrastructure crisis in this country. The necessary upgrades and maintenance have been lacking and the ridership is faced with swallowing the best of a bad menu. It is, almost, incomprehensible that the financial capital of the world, with the largest transit system struggles to earn a C . It is pathetic that riders have to suffer shoddy service and underfunding and be “happy” about relatively marginal improvements. Too bad the majority of Americans can’t have “nice things.” Yet the 2nd Ave subway (serving the UES) and the #7 expansion to the Westside (a developer’s dream pay dirt) are all brand new and shiny. This is a question of patronage and political will. As long as Cuomo and his ilk control Albany, we don’t stand a chance of receiving decent upgrades and service. After all, where’s that “bullet train” and my flying car? Oh, I guess we wanted to spend that money on Bezos’ helipad. My bad!
14
Three years ago, I left NY after 25 years. When people ask me why, I simply say, "the F train". NYers understand, never any follow on questions.
18
Relax ,and as with an auto ,leave an hour or two early. Other than that you have 2 systems ,one for the rat race ,and the other for the Mayors friends with private jets and Limos ,who don't want anything to do with the rat race.
4
I lived in NY for 27 years and this is the first time I have ever heard that there is a "schedule" for the subways. My guess is most riders have no idea.
Can't even count how many hours I spent waiting for the F train.
11
What a change from the past, when the former IRT lines had the oldest, worst equipment because they have a different track gauge from the former BMT and IND divisions.
3
It does not make sense to compare the NYC subway system with one’s in places like Japan and India. Those systems are much newer, hence fewer issues with repairs and maintenance. Considering the age of the NYC system and the history of city finances and its neglect, I am Alesha’s amazed when I visit that it still manages to run at all. I lived in NYC decades ago, and can remember when subway cars were not even air conditioned.
2
@Janet Baker Now we also have (albeit 1) STATION that's air conditioned - in Grand Central/42nd St.
2
@Janet Baker instead compared the NYC subway to those in London and Paris — both older and serving cities just as big, yet they are thoroughly modern and reliable. The NYC subway is a grubby, decrepit joke by contrast.
Long live the IRT, the BMT and the IND.
The 1,2,3, 4,5,6...IRT
The rest BMT and IND.
4
@Manderine Well, let's call them the IRT and the BMT/IND. The BMT and IND have been interconnected in so many places since the 1950's ad have so much through-routing that it doesn't make much sense to distinguish them except historically. I think the MTA refers to the BMT/IND as "Division B".
The MTA does however acknowledge this history with a visual pun: the routes that use the former IND trunk lines (6th and 8th Avenues) are color-coded with orange and blue, NYC's "official" colors, appropriate for the original City-owned lines.
10
There must be some history driving this. Identifiers like BMT, IRT, IND are mostly gone but they survive a bit in numbers vs. letters. I would have liked to have seen this explored a bit more in the article, especially when it got into letter lines having older signal systems, etc .
11
@Gary
The former IRT lines (A Division) have shorter stations, narrower tunnels and tighter curves and can't use the same cars as the former BMT and IND lines (B Division). So the MTA has to buy two different types of rolling stock instead of one.
6
I have seen absolutely no improvement in any aspect of the NYC subway system. I just keep thinking, "Lies..." with every "metric" that was trotted out in this article.
And service and infrastructure continue to crumble...
19
One of the biggest problems in the subway system is maintenance. Even after fixing a simple repair they let it get worn down. When was the last time anyone saw the system cleaned. From staircases to subways the place is filthy, filled with homeless, con men , and those seeking donations. The subway should be free until it improves . Stop making excuses for an overpaid MTA. They should list their top 100 salaries , enough to make us all throw up.
20
@Ralph Petrillo. I would love to see that, plus the names of all MTA board members, what their qualifications are, and who appointed them.
8
@Pete in Downtown we should also know whether they ever take the subway themselves
10
@Jane. Agree. My strong suspicion is that at least some of them think that "Subways " are places where you can get a sandwich.
7
But as the graphic in the story shows, bother the number and the letter lines are improving
1
People whine too much. No mention of the proposed Mayoral control of the MTA? The real problem is ALBANY and how here in NYC we need to beg for our tax dollars back. I'd go a step further and secede from NYS completely. STATEHOOD FOR NYC!
22
@Anthony. While utopic, I also had that thought on more than one occasion! But, while this is utopic, city control over its subway system is very doable; after all, that was the way it used to be until Governor Rockefeller's power grab in 1968.
8
@Pete in Downtown Exactly! What does Albany do for NYC other than to build PRISONS upstate with OUR taxes dollars, all to incarcerate NYC's men and woman for predominantly non-violent crimes?
5
@Anthony. One thing Governor Cuomo does here in New York City is hold his multi-million dollar fundraisers here, and then disappears as quick as he can back up to Albany. Somehow, our "State Leaders" have forgotten that if you want the (NYC) goose to keep laying the golden eggs (state taxes) , you also need to feed it.
4
There are barely enough trains on the F line as it is. There are stretches of 8-10 minutes between trains during the morning rush in Brooklyn - unacceptable, given it's the only major train line serving a massive swath of the borough. The cars are packed from Park Slope onward. Best of luck if you're getting on at Bergen or Delancey.
6
How the media turns good news into bad. Couching major successes with a plethora of "buts".
2
@Mike Do you want facts, or fake feel good news?
2
@Mike. This so-called success of on-time performance is as real as Bush 2's "Mission Accomplished" in Iraq back when. On-time numbers are meaningless if people can't board trains because they're overcrowded.
5
"Trains are considered on time if they reach the final stop within five minutes of the schedule."... Good thing they have very strict goals.
In Japan they bow in appology if train is 1 minute early.
Maybe set stricter goals and then strive for excelence. When you start with weak goals and expectations, you create culture of mediocrity and averageness.
9
@D Todorovic A few years ago, our Via Rail train from Montreal to Quebec was five minutes late arriving, and someone announced over the PA system that the crew was "desoles" [how do you make an acute accent on this thing?]. Yes, I know it just means "sorry" and not actually "desolated", but I couldn't help imagining our MTA mustering even a tiny bit of chagrin for such an event.
4
@Harvey Wachtel
Love Via Rail.
Clean
Nice employees
Good wifi
Euro (vs American/Amtrak) feel
Efficient Montreal station in middle of downtown, with good options for food and snacks.
Since 'on time' means five minutes after the scheduled arrival that can still mean a wait of 13 minutes during rush hour is the norm.
5
It's all completely subjective. When I lived on the 456, the trains were unbearable. And I defy a rider to get from 59th to Grand Central faster on an express than a local. For the last five years, I've lived on the BDFM and they reliability seems stellar to me.
I would still prefer that the MTA stop futzing around with fancy wall art and digital displays and just fix. the. signals.
21
Pls explain how reducing number of trains and hence crowding and delays to close door improves on time performance. And if there are fewer rush hour trains that alone is a disservice and should be reversed as crowding has become a serious problem. In fact on the number 1 train stops are frequently by-passed because trains are late or too crowded.
9
@JB Outraged Because, with more trains you can have a conga line of nearly empty trains waiting to turn around at the terminals. I believe them when they say cutting a few trains is more efficient.
3
The subway is one of the most amazing transportation systems in the world and without it the soul of New York City would wither away - it must be saved, protected, maintained.
20
Padding the schedule? The airlines did this years ago when on-time performance statistics became public. Most flights now arrive "early" because official estimates of flight time include usually long times for taxiing at either end of the route.
16
@maddenwg. I was clued into that practice by my brother, who works in the travel business. By padding the flight times, airlines were much more likely to be "on-time", and who complains about arriving ahead of schedule (actual on-time) . These MTA numbers are even more meaningless; the don't tell us anything about how overcrowded the trains and platforms are, and how often you can't get on a train because it's totally packed.
6
The real problem with the subway is that its too cheap.
3
@skater242 The MTA was running a massive surplus as recently as the mid-2000s. The real problem are pensions and corruption.
14
The real underlying problem is that at least 50% of our taxes funds the military industrial spy defense budget and as a nation we believe we have no money for infrastructure or healthcare when in reality we are the wealthiest nation on earth and “we” make horrible public policy decisions not to invest in ourselves.
24
Re: "While fewer trains could help raise the on-time performance, they also can lead to more crowded trains and less capacity on the system. Each train can carry roughly 1,000 passengers."
Yes, make the subway schedules and train availability just like US airlines.
We know how well that has worked.
3
Why is NYC still investing in elevated subway lines in the twenty-first century? Does anyone even know the expected lifespan of these century-old bridges?
1
F train riders, I feel your pain.
Love, Red Line rider from Boston.
11
I recently rode the subway in Delhi, India. New, clean, efficient and cheap. My friend and I thought wistfully of the decrepit trains we ride in New York and wondered why we can’t have nice things like this “third world” train system.
32
Well, indeed, when “trump” described some countries as, um, well, you know, he meant the US, the one he and his robber barons are running into the ground.
27
Still, people are polite, kind, and humane, no matter the line. Thank you New York.
40
If all the lettered trains have bad reliability and the numbered trains are goood, why don’t they just rename the lettered ones with numbers?
I’ve also got great opinions on vaccines, immigration and global trade;)
168
@Jim Cibilka... I laughed out loud!! Thanks for making my day!!
5
The obvious distinction between numbered and lettered lines is not mentioned in the entire article. IRT vs BMT/IND. Created by competing companies almost 100 years ago. These are different size trains running on different size tracks. What else is different? Do they present different challenges with repairs or modernizing? Are they on different timelines for fixes? Maybe not but no mention? Surprisingly not thorough article, devoid of obvious relevant facts.
151
@Andy The article does mention these issues without referencing old division terminology:
"a computer system on the numbered lines that allows workers to more efficiently dispatch trains"
The numbered lines other than the 7 have Automatic Train Supervision, so dispatchers have a better idea of where the trains are.
"Signal upgrades that improved service on another numbered line."
The 7 is getting the fully-automated computer-based train control (CBTC).
The lettered lines (other than the L) have neither of these technologies.
9
@Andy
"Do they present different challenges with repairs or modernizing? Are they on different timelines for fixes? "
This information is clearly in the article.
Perhaps, you need to read the article a little more carefully before posting?
1
@Andy I do not live in NYC. I have always thought that the lettered subway cars are wider than the numbered subway cars. Is this true? Also, I just always assumed that they all run on standard gauge tracks (4 feet, 8 and 1/2 inches) Is this incorrect? Thanks.
1
Gaslighting. The subway is not better.
26
All of this is the same nonsense I've seen since 1978. It never ends. Promises promises.
This is why representatives from Long Island City got up and said "no" to Amazon. Schools, traffic and the disorganized construction from speculation and developers given tax breaks.
It is very telling when a representative appears on Good Morning America coaxing shoppers to spend hard earned dollars at the gleaming new inviting Hudson Yards. One Stop Shopping, while people who live here get stuck with the sewage, sidewalks roads, rail, water and utility infrastructure bills so that companies are able to separate those who wave "hello Mom" signs behind Al Roker.
If you live there, how on Earth can you get on the subway @ $2.75 EACH WAY without major home budget consideration without an income in 6 figures?
New York City is simply no longer a viable place to do business and this will be proven soon as Amazon makes The Container Store, Home Despot, Lowes, Duane Reade, CVS, all of it will soon be leaving the bricks and mortar as it is too expensive to shop on the street anymore because of the subway and bus cost. Do the math.
But if you work at Google, and you want to stuff your face with irony, there's a Taco Bell Cantina serving margaritas right up the block. You don't have to take the train. Just a cab home.
23
The ex-IRT "numbered lines" as you call them (where is your historical knowledge?) suffer from tighter clearances -- 9' wide cars, vs. 10' wide on the ex-BMT and IND (combined after 1967 when the Chrystie St. connection was built). So maybe more reliable and with the newer Kawasaki cars, but can get more packed.
15
It is painfully transparent NYC transit issues aren't a techical nor even a structural organisational problem. They are the direct result of one central political problem that apparently plays out all across the US : Americans are loud and boisterous critics, until they have to reach for their wallets and put their money where their mouth is. That's when America's culture of whining hits its world beating stride. It really is is that pathetically simple, seen from everywhere else in the world where we get the public transit we pay for.
107
@Andy
Can't argue with that.
Cheap gas, expensive public transit.
That says it all.
5
@Andy: Yeah, and in Paris you also get all those free riots, mobs, and tear-gas attacks every weekend! I'll take American whining over vicious French protesters, thanks.
1
When I read reports like this one I'm always amazed. Why did the US leave their infrastructure crumble like this? And what are you going to do to avoid an even worse situation (in roads, airports, train lines...) in 10-20 years?
122
As Americans we know ‘God will provide’. (He’ll have to because we sure won’t.)
15
Because rich people here see the country the way a parasite sees a host: suck the life out of it and then move on. They intend to live in other circles: private planes, gated communities, global hob-nobbing, huge yachts. No way they are getting on a train, or a bus. But they do want their minions to wait on them, they just don’t care how they get there, just be on time.
89
@Joseph Because nobody wants to pay for the fixes that they would all benefit from...
15
Employees will always play to the performance metric. If the MTA is getting judged by on-time rates, they are going to figure out ways to increase on-time rates. Maxwell Young produces very convincing spin. I imagine his spiel is at least somewhat true. However, the MTA's critics have a point. The MTA is most definitely padding the metric.
An on-time rate is a percentage, right? A percentage is simply a division of two numbers. On-time trains over total trains. There are only three ways to improve this metric. You can increase the numerator, on-time trains. You can decrease the denominator, total trains. Or you can change the definition of "on-time." Maybe the numerator has gone up too but we know the MTA reduced the number of trains.
10
I've always been curious about the number of passengers on trains, especially during rush hours when people are packed in cars like sardines. I frequently see signs outside of establishments noting the maximum number of people permitted, presumably for safety and fire code regulations. But what about a subway car? When passengers are clearly in a car with hardly any room to move or breathe let alone escape in an emergency, what about that? Can someone explain the rationale for allowing subway cars to carry passengers at whatever number they can squeeze in despite obvious safety considerations?
46
@James L.
That's an easy one.
How do you propose to limit the number of passengers in each car to a predetermined safe limit?
Nuff said
7
@James L.
Amazingly, the number of passengers packed into a New York City subway car exceeds the limit allowed by federal regulations -- for cattle cars.
4
We must remember the age of the system, the fact that originally they were the privately owned lines (the BMT, IRT, and IND) built on different have tracks so that trains cannot be moved around to where needed. This doesn't make upkeep easy.
12
@David Reines. No, that age doesn't make upkeep easy, it makes it essential. And our Governor, Mr. Cuomo, has let things badly slide for now eight years. The current sorry state of affairs is the result of long neglected, but essential maintenance and upgrades.
3
I thought that the article would have touched on the “historical” reasons why there might be a difference in the performance between the “numbered lines” vs. the “lettered lines”. After all, the numbered lines and lettered lines were originally two separate companies. (The IRT vs the BMT/Ind companies) and run different equipment (IRT tracks are narrower).
In reality, the performance gap isn’t that big and it’s because they are now running fewer trains on the Seventh Ave and Lexington lines.
16
@David Weintraub The tracks are the same gauge. The IRT cars are narrower and shorter. But the IRT lines in Manhattan have virtually no merges, as opposed to many connections between IND/BMT lines which result in delays because it's impossible to run trains sufficiently on schedule to prevent delays when one train joins another line.
I was in Japan years ago, but still remember the Namba Station in Osaka. This is a number of stories up in the air which is remarkable in of itself. What impressed me the most was how commuter trains arrived and left seemingly every minute or two. There were separate platforms for arrivals and departures to hasten loading. The doors would open on one side and people left. After a short time, these closed and the other side opened and people entered. If the train even slowed slightly when approaching the station, an apology was announced.
The other day the 7 train was approaching the Main Street, Flushing, terminus when it had to wait for over 10 minutes because all three tracks in the station were occupied by other trains. This is not an infrequent occurrence, especially during the afternoon rush hour.
73
Can we get rid or the phrases numbered and letter trains. The numbered trains are really the old IRT while the lettered trains are the old BMT and Independent lines.
The only thing worse is calling the lines by their colors. That is for Boston.
Also please do not refer to the the trains as the 1, 2, 3 or the 4,5, 6 lines. They are the 7th Avenue and Lexington Avenue lines of the IRT.
The subways have a wonderful history. It should not be forgotten becasue people want to use what they beleive are easy ways to distinguish trains. Distinguish them based upon their history.
Those who ignore history are doomed to forget it.
52
@Ronald Balter It's funny, I grew up calling the IRT the Lex line and the Broadway line.
5
I prefer the “colors” to the actual names. Why do one set of lines use ACE trains and another set the BDF trains? It makes absolutely no sense why the alphabet was staggered like this. At least the IRT lines are properly “numbered” with one line as the 123 trains and the other as the 456 trains.
It wasn’t until the lines got their current colors did the layout actually make sense.
You can’t use the 7th Ave line vs. Broadway because after 42nd, the 7th Ave line runs down Broadway and the Broadway line runs down 7th Avenue. And the old IRT/BMT/Ind because historically Ind lines now run on historical BMT track and visa versa.
Heck, let’s just sell the naming rights to the lines and be done with it. We already did this for “CitiBike” and “CitiField”. In fact, we did this with Times Square when the NYT got the city to rename Longacre Square. Next time, we can tell tourists, “Take the CitiBank to 34th and transfer to either the Amazon or the Google. Don’t get on the Trump. It doesn’t go where anyone wants to go.”
27
Originally the letters were not staggered. The Independent Subway had (has) two trunk lines: Sixth Avenue and Eighth Avenue. Each terminal provided service to each trunk line (and had double letter local service; anyone remember the AA or CC?). Over the years and decades, as service was cut and other changes to service delivery were made, terminals were switched to one trunk line, necessitating passengers to switch trains en route for their destination.
5
Next up:
Coloring Inside and Outside the Lines: “why the green and red lines run better than the orange and blue lines; ok we made that up but we got a click AND gave you a new theory to nibble on for for now.”
Guess what? For a gigantic, 24/7/365 system servings 9 million it runs pretty well. Room for improvement? Always and it has, does, will. Fact is, there remains no quicker, more affordable or generally reliable way to get around NYC than the subway whether it’s the 1 or the D.
Perhaps what’s needed are more effective ways to gripe and harness the collective dissatisfaction into something more productive. Civility on the subway? Move ALL the way into cars instead of standing clustered by the doors and please, please don’t congregate at/around bottom of the stairways because YOU are the delays, not the trains.
Had many been riding 15-20 years ago you’d all be LOVING what we have today. In the 80s? Oh my - well, let’s face it, it was only just us NYC’ers living here then before the takeover. We were lucky if we could find a door that opened to get on/off a subway car.
You’ll soon be looking for a café car, no doubt. Nap pods if your ride is longer than 30 minutes? Frequent rider points?
Just stop. This is the best transit system in the world in the greatest city in the world. Appreciate what we have or come up with viable ways to make it better. You can’t. Hush now.
17
@Colleen "The best transit system in the world" Ha! You need to come to Tokyo and see how a subway system is supposed to run. The NYC system is a standing joke in the world of subway systems.
60
@Colleen
I agree with you on many points, but the whole “best transit system in the world” hype is ridiculous. You don’t have to trash the Subway to note that we can learn from other cities or that some of them are better at some things then us.
London’s Underground is older than the Subway, though not as large (but not small either). When I was there on business a week ago, I marveled at how much cleaner, brighter, quieter, and in better repair the system was than our own here in NYC. And since a good proportion of the system is now open 24 hours, the old MTA excuse that all these benefits result from 4-5 hours late night shutdown is looking pretty week.
8
Colleen I think you forgot to mention that the greatest subway in the greatest city in the world, was part of the greatest nation on earth, or is it the universe?
Not only the Japanese subways are known to be the “greatest “, but even the Paris and London ones are better than New York.
I suggest less jingoism and more travels.
Rudi
6
"Trains are considered on time if they reach the final stop within five minutes of the schedule."
Well that explains a lot. That is an unbelievably crude and nonsensical metric. Trains are mostly empty when they reach the final stop. The huge majority of riders are interested in whether their train is on time in between. Who cares if the C gets to 168th on time when it's inexplicably 11 minutes early at 50th and now the next one isn't for 27 minutes.
35
We can improve on time performance even more by simply declaring a train “on time” even if it’s TEN minutes late!
What a great idea! Maybe I’ll see if I can get a contract with the MTA as a transit consultant. I could explain how if we run just one train per day, and allow it to be up to 30 minutes late, New York could have the best transit system in the world (as measured in on time performance).
10
@Nad Nerb
This explains why the MTA suddenly dumps all the passengers off my train while claiming door problems or some such thing - they're really dumping us off so they can race to the final stop and be "on time."
6
@Nad Nerb
The five minute rule is pretty standard in mass transit around the world. Except for planes, where I think it is 10 minutes. And I was the same standard a few years back when the stats they are now beating were set-so apples to apples. I would love to see them do better and get super precise, but it seems a bit petulant to complain about using an industry standard when they are struggling t even meet it. When they get to 98%+ on the five minutes, we can talk about pushing for a more demanding one.
3
The on-time percentage is still egregiously bad overall, and even worse for the lettered lines. The stipulation that a train that is five minutes late is on time seems like a cruel joke on the people who need to get to and from work and to other necessary appointments. I think it's a bit early for them to be congratulating themselves.
7
We need to question our clinging, as a people, to the vestiges of the past. We close schools and discourage workers from voting by holding off-year elections on "the first Tuesday after the first Monday." And the New York subway system is run by a governor in Albany (who need not have lived in the City). And then there's the State Assembly. It may make sense if you are looking at it from the inside. From the outside, not so much.
Then there's the Port Authority.
Ah, Power, a heady, addictive drug.
43
@Joe Who's clinging? I'd say it's the ones in power.
"Trains are considered on time if they reach the final stop within five minutes of the schedule." This is a bit of a joke. Do you know that in Japan - the ENTIRE system for the ENTIRE country runs about 30 seconds late on average per year? Pop - about 126 million.
105
@Steven Kopstein
Perhaps, but the Japanese actually invest in capacity and - gasp - spend money on maintenance, and have a culture of performance. It is painfully transparent NYC transit isues aren't a techical nor evan a structural organisational problem.
It is a political problem, and one that apparently plays out across the US. Americans are loud and boisterous critics, until they have to reach for their wallets and put their money where their mouth is and that's when America's culture of whining really hits its world beating stride. It really is is that pathetically simple.
43
Well in Japan they look around and see themselves, whereas here we look around and see others. So in Japan it’s lots easier to rationalize/celebrate the commons, whereas we ludicrously put forth notions that “the state won’t pay the billions”. WE are the state. And if those billions aren’t paid, what?, we’re really just going to let the system die? It’s lunacy. There is no “let the system die” option. It’s the homeowner that says “we don’t need no stinkin roof”. How long is that really an option?
So of course, when it finally dawns on people that a non-serviceable subway is not an actual option, going about fixing it is much more expensive because it was left to rot. Why do we have to be the stupid country? Why can’t we have nice things? Japan is not a socialist country, they got plenty of bazillionaires, but they do seem to understand the common good in a way we never will.
26
@Steven Kopstein Even Bulgaria has a better performing subway system.
8