It would take years to get enough interpreters to meet the needs of every dialect of every obscure language of native peoples from Meso-America . With third of us solidly behind Trump, even planning for such and expanded translator program can not possibly begin until early 2020, this assuming a Democratic sweep. So two years out at least. Now let’s talk root causes: continuing white supremacy of the European colonizers (Spanish in this case) and the resulting social inequalities; overpopulation and the resulting erosion of mountain soils (thanks to the Catholic Church and evangelical missionaries) - leading to migration from failed farms to cities and gangs; and,finally, climate change. Which to address first?
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There might a silver lining in the grey cloud.
The Federal government should pay for immediate language programs in universities to provide qualified translators.
To cite one example, there are universities with established programs in Latin American studies. They may not teach every language now because it is not economically feasible.
Pay them to do it and to do it intensely and quickly and even if it means bringing instructors from abroad.
Everybody profits and this also might even help preserve certain languages.
The same could be done for Africa and Asia. New fields of study would open. Jobs.
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It would have been really nice if for once refugees and immigrants from Africa were mentioned. They speak many indigenous languages and there is barely ever an attempt made to find an interpreter who speaks Bassa, Wolof, Mandingo, etc. The worst example of that kind was at an Ebola information meeting in Staten Island in 2014 when NYC health officials apologized for not having a Spanish interpreter and NOT at all acknowledging that the targeted population was from West Africa whith hundreds of indigenous languages. Please note not all of us immigrants are from Central or South America or Asia.
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Accommodations for disabled folk must pass a reasonableness test. So should accommodation for speakers of foreign languages. We have more pressing challenges to spend our energy and tax dollars on.
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After reading this piece, I asked my young Guatemalan friend in NYC if his language is Mam, K’iche’ or Q’anjob’al? He says his grandparents speak K’iche’. (We communicate via a cell phone translator that translates K’iche’ as quiche....) He says he doesn't speak much of that language. The fact is that he also does not speak much Spanish, and almost no English. He is probably here illegally. He makes good money, probably under the radar. I don't ask. He is almost entirely unreached by a governmental system that should be communicating with him. Rather than deporting illegals like him, our immigration agencies should be hiring and training people like him to become translators. Also, I scanned the entire vocabulary of those dialects. It is very limited. With many words related to corn....It is incumbent upon the Federal government to address this. It is incumbent upon the NYC government to address this.
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@Tony Adams, it isn't really translating it as quiche. Quiché is simply the spelling in Spanish orthography and was, until recently, the normal spelling in English as well (often omitting the acute accent on the final e). It is still not uncommon in English. So don't treat that as evidence of a bad translation, but just a different spelling convention.
5
Looks like the US needs to approve some H-1b visas to Central American workers who can act as translators in these cases.
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I'm pro immigration but shouldn't basic English be a prerequisite for residency? Mexico is better prepared to help these people, especially if they're in an emergency or life threatening situation, as indigenous Mayan languages are widely spoken/understood in southern Mexico.
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The Guatemalan military, aided by the US, committed genocide against the highland Maya populations in the 1980’s. Today these populations are still being displaced and threatened by land grabs from big international companies such as the mining conglomerates around El Estor. Many are subsistence farmers from tiny isolated communities that do not have access to Spanish education much less English. There are many Maya dialects and they are not always mutually comprehensible. It probably would make a lot of sense to provide special visas for interpreters. Mexico may not have interpreters for some of these dialects either and while the immigrants might indeed fare better in Mexico they are seeking asylum here and have a right to do so.
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@Andrew, a good question asked in earnest deserves a thoughtful answer. The US does not have an official language; insisting that everyone speak English as a prerequisite for residency a) excludes vulnerable asylum seekers, who are unlikely to have been taught English, and b) is a fairly violent form of cultural erasure that has a strong and sad history in the US.
As the article points out, dozens of indigenous languages are spoken in South America; there might be more speakers of indigenous languages in Mexico, but greater geographic proximity to South America does not guarantee a common tongue, as we see often enough (how many white Americans who live near Quebec speak French)?
English is the most commonly spoken language here in part because English-speaking settlers made a conscious effort that it be so. English speakers ruthlessly rooted out other languages; they forced children of Native or Latinx parents into schools that only taught in English and forbade the teaching of other languages; they often forbade Black slaves from speaking their native tongues as well, digging up the roots of every language but the one spoken by those in power. For a time, the speaking of some Native languages was actually against the law; it was a part of efforts to "civilize" indigenous peoples. There are grassroots movements now growing to revive language such as Lakota.
Language norms are a delicate balance between questions of practicality and cultural dominance.
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@Erin Have you ever pondered that maybe, just maybe Americans would like to preserve their culture too? Why would foreign culture be more important than domestic culture in this case?
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I realize that the article’s author may be astounded, but in the early 20th century, when my grandparents arrived in this country, they couldn’t speak any English. They made it their business to learn as soon as possible. I’m pretty sure the same thing also happened with some of The Times’ other readers.
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no they did not. they also took years!
8
Perfect example of why we need pre-requisites. Let them bring their own translators.
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what exactly did they expect, entering a country where the vast majority of people don’t speak their language?
And how exactly would these people contribute to the economy if they can’t communicate to other people?
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Oh. now I get it. We need to get some billboards down there that say (in every indigenous language): "Do not go to America. Do not drag your children across dangerous landscapes to get to America. It is not America's job to take care of you."
I am sure these languages are linguistic heritage that should be preserved. I am also sure that it should not be up to US to learn them. Illiteracy and speaking only a rarefied language are not grounds for asylum.
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I've worked with the children of these families at a dual language elementary school. They learn both English *and* Spanish fast! Give them time and they'll be trilingual, biliterate taxpayers, who are more employable that their monolingual neighbors.
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The children who have learned basic English or Spanish will be able to help their parents eventually. Parents who are illiterate often have a small window of opportunity for literacy when their children are learning to read. When immigrants have not been able to go to school they may well be exploited in the workplace.
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Well, of course, our immigration mess is, in fact, a national emergency. One of many reasons.
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Skillful, effective interviewing is far more than translating or interpreting an uncommon language and culture. There are other metalanguage messages that hosts need to be aware of (respectful manners etc.) Linguistically speaking, knowing there are humans who speak languages considered endangered should be considered and appreciated. There are hidden gems in all spoken languages.
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@Yours Truly Wait...what?!?
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This article underlines a serious point. To wit, many immigrants from Mexico and Central America are in fact indigenous people. To call them Latino/Hispanic is usually false. It is very likely that the vast majority of these immigrants are at least of mixed ethnicities, of which Spanish (actually from Spain) is a significant minority. To define them, as we have, as Latino/Hispanic is very inaccurate. Why not define them as Native/Indigenous peoples? Or better still, why not (as the French do) have no ethnic definitions for French citizens, simply call them human beings, let the definitions be for whether or not they are legally citizens or not.
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@William Shine
The people coming from the Central America are citizens of the countries from which they are fleeing. Despite having citizenship in their various countries, being of indigenous heritage (or indigenous and African heritage), asserting an indigenous identity, and speaking indigenous languages rather than just Spanish, even in those countries traditionally without racial classifications, can be an assignment for lower class status and abuse.
These questions of status and rights are central to the UN Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples (2007). The United States, along with Canada, New Zealand, and Australia, is one of the countries that largely object to it.
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Thank you for this article.
My son is a missionary for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints in rural Oregon and Washington and has worked with many people who speak Mam or K’iche’. The ability to adequately communicate with them has been very difficult.
Perhaps your coverage of this challenge will help bring more people into the field to help.
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Can't even understand a question from the judge, how is she to function if she's granted citizenship?
Simple answer, she wont.
The taxpayer will be tapped to support her and the children as we all wonder where the father is.
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Her people were in this land before you were.
12
Technically as an indigenous person there is not need for papers to travel. If dna proves over 50% Native American blood then they can freely traverse the us border... so check yourself - because technically you’re a guest in their land and not the other way around
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@There
People who speak indigenous languages and are granted asylum in the U.S. will presumably learn to speak English.
Perhaps "@There" and others who are worried about their taxes would like to volunteer some time as ESL tutors... if they're capable.
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It's going to be wonderful to have a country where no one understands anyone else. I'm looking forward to "press 25 for Popti".
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If they remain in this country, how do speakers of these indigenous languages manage their lives? It's hard to imagine them being employable.
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they would be just as employable as all of the other minority language speakers before that have immigrated to the United States and live together in their own communities.
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They're here because they're working construction, ag, food industry, etc. And they adapt just like every other language-grouping if immigrants did, by helping themselves with jobs, housing, etc.
17
...and the NYTs is just now figuring this court room interpreter problem out??
This indian language to spanish to english interpreter problem has been well documented in places like Texas and the Deep South for over 20 years.
Its only recently that the waves of indigenous refugees began hitting the NE states....and it was only then that the "national debate" over english language and "immigration" began....and, as usual, blaming all the imagined xenophobia on trailer trash, gun-totin, racist southerners...who have by and large been silently dealing with the situation in usually very humane, neighborly ways.
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I cannot agree. Is it practical, or reasonable, to provide an interpreter for every indigenous language in the world? It is hard to understand how a person can live in Guatemala and not speak Spanish. Then, the judges who are supposed to do their jobs end up bending the law to accommodate these people who go to court and admit they broke the law by coming here illegally. This poses so many problems and issues and in the end, it show these are economic refugees. There are guest worker programs and laws in which to apply for residency.
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@gmt
On the contrary, it's not hard at all, if one has been there, to understand how people in remote areas can speak only indigenous languages. This phenomenon isn't limited to Guatemala.
At one end of a spectrum, even within proximity of Panajachel (aka "Gringotenango" for local Spanish speakers), there are remote communities where many people speak only their local native dialect and cannot understand people from a few villages away. Yet with exposure and necessity, people can learn a surprising array of new skills.
On the other hand, if you've ever been to Mexico City, the lines of people seeking to apply for legal status in the U.S. at the U.S. Embassy begin before dawn every day and wind around the block.
7
it may be hard for you to understand, but about a third of the population of Latin America are indigenous language speakers. they function.
14
I would think that it would be much more dangerous to live in a country in which I didn't understand the language and there were virtually no people there which understood mine. But I'm sure my liberal brethren will come up with a universal solution all in good time.
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@Kurt Pickard
It's called education, Kurt.
7
I disagree. it's more dangerous to live in a place where you face the choice of joining a drug gang, starvation or execution.
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@Kurt Pickard
Guatemala is a failed state (thanks in no small part to the US intervention in 1954 which sparked a 40 year civil war).
It's a place where indigenous people live in areas experiencing violence that is hard to imagine for people in the USA. They wouldn't be leaving if they were left alone; but narco terrorist gangs have made life intolerable. Why else would these folks risk a harrowing journey to seek refuge in a country whose citizens show them little compassion?
15
They can’t speak English, let alone even elementary Spanish! How can they possibly be assimilated into the social fabric of our country and become productive citizens?
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@Nick
Spanish is not necessary for immigrants who don't already speak it. Anybody immersed in a foreign culture soon picks up the basics, and it usually takes about a year to become minimally competent with just a bit of study; another year typically leads to acceptable fluency if one works at it. Adult learners may never lose their foreign accents but their children and grandchildren will.
BTW, people who arrive here with no English at all have gone on to become productive citizens. Here, I'm not just thinking of Mayans, Montagnards, and Cambodians, but your ancestors and mine, Nick.
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@Nick
They learn English the same way every other immigrant learns English, through their children who pick it up in school. My illiterate grandmother came here with her 12 kids, 9 of which became college graduates, and all prospered through the various businesses they started.
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@Nick
As generations of uneducated immigrants before them, they will get manual labor jobs and their children will pull them into American culture and life. My illiterate grandmother never learned English, but my mom went to college and I'm an attorney. The sky is not falling.
29
We have a fair number of Q'anjob'al and K'iche speaking patients at the hospital where I work, and we have the same problems. It is extremely difficult to find interpreters for these languages (we use a phone/video service...sometimes the wait for an available interpreter is more than an hour) and to get a good sense of what, if anything, is being accurately conveyed to either party. The video system is extremely buggy, so it's hard for the interpreters to hear us and vice versa. Recently, I was speaking to a mother after operating on her daughter. I went phrase by phrase with the interpreter, a few words at a time, explaining what we had done, what would happen next, etc. I stopped several times to ask if she had questions. After about 40 minutes, I thought we had gone through everything. I asked again if she had any questions for me. She asked, "Is the surgery done yet?", so clearly the very basics of the conversation had not been clearly communicated, and we started over again.
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Working as an interpreter for Spanish, I have often found myself interpreting to people who are native mam, or other language speakers. They barely have a grasp of Spanish, often knowing nothing about court or judges, but we cannot find an interpreter in their language. They say they speak and understand Spanish, but they really do not understand. It is something that needs to be resolved, as this is part of their rights in court.
35