I often struggle to understand what W. Morris is talking about, and I wish he would write more clearly. I feel like a Martian when people get so rhapsodic about his work.
11
Spike Lee needs to chill. He behaved like he was entitled to win. Look how long it took for Spielberg and Scorcese to win. Spielberg lost to Shakespeare in Love for Saving Private Ryan. If ANYONE deserved to be disappointed it was Glenn Close and she behaved like a professional.
30
Green book seems to send a message that even a highly talented and intellectual black man can learn something from an uneducated out of work white man, who even though he was racist, was not really a bad guy after all. Is that worth honoring?
9
Actually, after all of the criticism, I am anxious to see Green Book for myself. I always thought of Farrelly as kind of a shlock filmmaker, but everyone I know who has seen this film says it was great. I proudly call myself a liberal but have been put off by the level of PC here. Spike Lee just comes across as a sore loser and, honestly, he's not that great a filmmaker. Roma was about the only worthwhile thing Netflix ever made and, while I agree, it wasn't best picture material, it was incredibly directed and deserved that prize. And Black Panther, c'mon, it's a comic book film, of which we have been unfairly deluged with over the years.
19
My view of the broadcast is negative because of the intrusion of commercials — many more than last year and the years before. As a reader of the NY Times, I expect the writers/reporters to see what I saw. Not to mention the disfigurement of the show by the commercials, is equal to not mentioning the lousy, loud, laughable stage decorations. These critics condemned the latter but (why?) not the former.
1
I was listening to a New York sports talk show and the host said he saw a screener of Green Book and loved it. The next 1/2 hour was a real love-in with the callers. I was shocked. VOX POPULI. The Voice of the People! Movies have always been a place of escape whether a comedy, drama, action adventure, crime/espionage thriller. Movies are escape. In the last few years movie makers have become overtly political - gender, race immigration, mass incarceration etc. And while the media eats it up audiences are finding it harder and harder to find their escape. This is something the insular, self congratulatory nature of the arts doesn't get. Nothing everybody agrees with the orthodoxy that Hollywood is trying to sell. And Green Book is a perfect example. KKK and Green Book are similar films. Both are "civil rights" films. Both are period pieces. Both are really mediocre. And both are blatant in getting across their message. But the difference is that Green Book allows the moviegoer to get lost in a love story. While KKK is filled with hate from director Spike Lee and the KKK. Easy to see why Green Book is a more attractive film and why voters and fans embraced Green Book.
10
The criticism of this Green Book and attempts to ruin this movie, is racist.
It was the story of a gay, eccentric, real genius who cultivates a life-long real bond with an improbable tough guy. Both learn life lessons and show real life. real feelings and human movement and evolution of friendship.
I loved this movie and its uplifting ending and the epilogue delivered a gratifying ending of a real life relationship. Its reality makes it more important.
The real message of this movie is perverted by critics and sore losers.
29
I agree with much of what is said here and I am thrilled that Regina King, Ruth Carter and Hannah Beachler won Oscars. But Dargis and Scott seem to imply that the best picture now needs to be a film that is particularly enlightened about issues such as race and gender. Since "Green Book" is not, it must be eliminated from the running. Isn't this the same type of narrow-minded thinking that has led Hollywood to only hire and reward white men for so long?
12
The Academy, while increasing it's diversity since "Moonlight" won, loved this movie. People of color loved this movie. White people loved this movie. (I myself am ambivalent, but found it an solid and necessary story about how we can overcome biases.)
Also, both the black and white characters learned from one another. This was far from a problematic film, but New York Times critics from Manohla Dargis to Wesley Morris are calling this a "fantasy" film. Despite the fact that much of this apparently happened.
These elite critics simply don't get it. Both characters changed each other in this story. Whether or not the movie gets history wrong (those Sundown town laws were mostly in Northern areas, not Southern Jim Crow areas), or the nature of their relationship incorrect (apparently, the family of Shirley wasn't happy about it, but do they know the truth?), the film mostly succeeds.
If anything I found the movie paints the racism with too broad a brush. I don't want to mention spoilers, but let's just say if you believe all this would happen in a two-month road trip, then I'm afraid our history teachers and Hollywood have brainwashed us.
13
I'm intrigued that Green Book (which I haven't seen), apparently based on a true story, is being blasted as a fantasy of idealized interracial friendship, while Blackkklansman, also apparently based on a true story, and also a narrative of interracial friendship, is not being criticized along the same lines. I write this as a fan of Spike Lee who considers "Do the Right Thing" a masterpiece. Blackkklansman is not. Its portrayal of Black activism is oversimplified and the film boils down into a simplistic caricature of white racism (which makes the KKK look as if they're a bunch of gullible hateful dupes sustained by even dumber and more hateful wives). For better or for worse, the reality of racism is more complex if no less hateful or violent. Why all the righteous scorn for one simplistic interracial friendship movie and not the other?
14
No hose meant that the show could progress on a tighter schedule. A host truly isn't needed with phony banter and jokes that fail. Happy to see Fey, Pohler and Rudolph.
4
I thought Spike Lees behavior was terrible. I like his movies but his spiteful, adolescent behavior was unwarranted.
17
Just a reminder: a film was already made that's closer to the narrative that the critics of Green Book are insisting on: it's entitled In The Heat Of The Night, and it won Best Picture in 1967.
Granted, it does include a "magic" character and a "savior" character- Tibbs (Sidney Poitier) and Gillespie (Rod Steiger) take turns in those roles: Tibbs saves Gillespie's reputation- and eventually the fortunes of the town- with his uncanny expertise in homicide investigation; and Gillespie saves Tibbs from a racist gang attack by showing up at just the right moment out of nowhere to chase off the attackers. Ah, the wonders of fictional narrative.
But I suspect that some of the critics still won't be satisfied by In The Heat Of The Night, either, and are after something more like a 1960s version of Django Unchained. Minus the "white savior" character, of course.
3
I understand that The Green Book was not the critic's favorite. Personally, we were rooting for Black Panther. However, all of this criticism that the GB wasn't black enough to deserve a win is very troubling. I thought it was very bad form for Spike Lee to speak out against the win after the ceremony. Also the complaints about how white the production crew was. While the#Oscarssowhite movement was necessary to raise the consciousness of Hollywood and reform the Academy membership, it's a dangerous slope we start down if nominees and winners a have to pass a pc test. Otherwise, lets just racially segregate awards shows.
18
@PHL
Spike Lee has no class or more importantly manners.
Hey Spike, Hitchcock and Lumet never won Oscars for Direction either, for them it's too late . Lighten up will ya.
12
"Roma" didn't win Best Picture simply because it wasn't all that good - "over-written and under-acted" as one critic described it. I have family ties to Mexico and I love slow-moving atmospheric "art house" movies, so I was really, Really, REALLY wanting to love "Roma". It would have been terrific if the best picture of the year was a story from Mexico that - for once - didn't involve violence and drug lords. But to suggest that "Roma" not winning is something to do with unsophisticated academy voters "not getting it" is missing the much more obvious explanation - "Roma" was far from being the best picture of the year.
11
@John yes. i was bored in romaand confused by gaps in story. close-ups, many many close-ups of dog poo do not a modern alan pakula make.
3
I'll watch anything with Mahershala Ali in it. I've been a huge fan ever since he played Richard Tyler on 4400. If you haven't seen it yet, 4400 is a brilliant television series now available on Netflix. Its an intelligent, humane examination of how society can both worship and despise those deemed 'other'.
5
Ms. Dargis needs to see Greenbook again and watch the documentary "Lost Bohemia" in which Don Shirley describes Tony as his friend. Also, read the article by Kareem Abdul Jabbar that best describes the relationship: "Both men are changed by their interactions with the other. As Tony reveals to Shirley, he was brought up in the same neighborhood as his parents and will likely die in that neighborhood. Though certainly not to the same extent as Shirley, Tony is imprisoned by geography, lack of education and lack of options. Exposure to Shirley changes his perception. Shirley, who has forced himself to be so guarded that he is imprisoned in his lavish apartment, allows himself to feel friendship and engage in the world that he has kept at a distance."This film is not "about loving people in spite of their differences." It is a story about the impact of weeks traveling with Tony Vallelonga through the south and how Tony reacted to the treatment that Shirly suffered.Vallelonga saw a man that did not fit his stereotype of a black man and Shirley saw that Vallelonga was more than an Italian tough. The docmentarian of "Lost Bohemia" has short quotes from both men. Finally, take into account what Vallelonga's son, who co-wrote the story that became the movie, staes that Shirley instructed him about who not to contact when writing about Shirley and his dad. Perhaps the academy did embrace a film"about the truth"
28
Green Book may not have been my number 1 pick this year, but the gross overreaction against it is really getting tiring. I keep hearing how it "over-simplifies" race relations....It's a two hour movie about an unconventional friendship, which also happens to highlight a lot of the race-based issues of the time. Why is that not enough?
Anyone with a reasonable education knows race relations in the US are extremely complicated, but it is not every film's responsibility to dig deeply into that issue. This film may have had a lighter tone than some, but it was warm and had a good message, and great acting.
We need to stop being so personally offended when our choices aren't selected or because the winning choice may have had a flaw or two. There was no obvious choice this year, which made discussing their various virtues fun to me, but all this Green Book backlash has taken the fun out of it.
Art is subjective, and we need to stop taking ourselves so damn seriously.
36
My complaint with the white liberals' critique of "Green Book'' is that it comes off as racial pandering, as groupthink by people trying to fit in with the cool kids. If you leave your politics at the door, as I did, "Green Book is an entertaining movie with a positive point. And for those who criticize the film for telling the story from the white guy's perspective, I would like to point this out: It already had been told from the black man's perspective, and it flopped, critically and commercially: James Baldwin's "Just Above My Head'' described the author's terrifying tour of the Old South under Jim Crow. The forerunners or today's "woke'' liberals panned that novel, which remains a favorite of mine.
18
@Frank
I have to agree with you strongly. I think the criticism comes from man who take on the anger of race relations rather than the nuances. There is so much that is said in this movie that is reality based and genuine and many of the critics would prefer a good guys and bad guys type of movie.
Both characters were flawed but were dedicated to the jobs they had and were doing and the driver understood the loneliness that comes with stardom and breaking barriers that clearly was troubling. The driver's wife hugged him because she knew he was the influence on her husband who took the time to care. He was also such a strong part of the family that Christmas Eve was at his house and his honest acceptance and welcoming was contagious.
I only can believe many of the critics wanted too juvenile a picture of right and wrong that they couldn't enjoy a great movie that was quite funny
18
The critics who dismiss or disrespect the Academy for choosing Green Book as best picture remind me of the political pundits who dismiss and disrespect Trump voters.
7
@gopher1But u have 2 b honest — everything reminds u of disrespect 4 Trump, and that’s b cause disrespect 4 Trump is everywhere.
3
I would have preferred that Black Klansman get the best picture award, but I’m not ashamed to say that enjoyed Green Book. I wish critics would stop trashing Green Book and acting as if it encompasses every story of black/white relations. Both movies were about the relationship of two men – one white, one black. Green Book is the recollections of one man whose life was changed because of his association with an extremely accomplished African American and a road trip through the South that opened his eyes and changed his perspective. It’s from Tony Vallelonga’s point of view. If the Shirley family and the critics want to make a different movie, then write the script, get the funding and make that movie. Period. End of sentence.
25
It was absolutely a travesty to leave "Leave no Trace" out of best picture.
Thomasin McKenzie for best actress or best supporting.
See the picture and make your own decision.
9
Green Book was like Driving Miss Daisy.
What!? Green Book wasn't politcally correct enough for these critics because it was too "feel good" with its ending? I enjoyed the film very much and I also think the other contenders were fine films as well except for Black Panther, which had no business even being up there.
5
@styleman
Actually, clicked "recommend" inadvertently....I disagree with some of your reactions - though I did enjoy the watching of Greenbook...the issue that people have with its having won is over the simplicity of the message given the feelings being played out today. And, I fully disagree about Black Panther...so glad that such an epic & popular story was recognized for its power and reach...But, we each are coming from our own place of perspective and I appreciate the different songs we sing.
4
I think the simplicity of the message is what’s being played out today where there is little real communication but a lot of yelling because we’re all angry and feel superior to Trump which is a very low bar but anger and dismissiveness isn’t effective period
See if you can have a conversation with someone about race if you disagree and see if it enlightens both of you. Then come back and tell me that Green Book was simple. It wasn’t simple and it wasn’t easy.
What specifically did it miss?
5
haven't seen Green Book yet but I don't get the criticism except it seems to be racism in reverse. My takeaway of the critics seems to be not enough blacks in its production to have been a winner, and not enough anti-white and black hero stuff in the movie itself. So what? We still have more whites than blacks in the USA, and from what I read, it was well crafted, well acted, based on a true story, and had a positive message. What's wrong with that for a movie?
Those criticizing it made themselves look bad, not the movie.
5
@Barry Schiller
There is no such thing as racism in reverse! there is simply racism, and each and all of us are likely capable of it and subject to it.
1
I, for one, would certainly miss the Oscars if they went away, and I enjoyed last night's show more than any others for a few years, at least.
In all the uproar about Green Book winning, I haven't seen it mentioned that three of the contenders were about black people, and one about an indigenous woman. No matter how you slice it, this is progress.
A popular movie won? I'm shocked, I tell you.
10
The Best Picture winner is selected out of eight choices. That means that if all things were equal - and this year it looks that way - they could win with only 13% of the vote. So how is this any indication of what the Academy is thinking? We are never told what the vote numbers were. Did the winner win in a landslide? Was it neck and neck? Or neck and neck and neck and neck? We don't know. Can you imagine a political election run in the same secret way? Frankly, I think it's all up for grabs. I think they should have a specific percentage for the winner. If it isn't reached, no winner or multiple winners.
10
In the reader's comments you will stumble across a discussion of Brokeback Mountain for some reason and whether or not it was worthy of winning Best Picture that year. I would like to take this opportunity to lament that Brokeback Mountain completely stole the spotlight from a far better film about male love that was completely overlooked... The Three Burials of Melquiades Estrada, starring, directed by and partially written by Tommy Lee Jones.
6
All the reactions to Green Book makes me want to honor Dr. Don Shirley and learn about the fully dimensional real life of the man. One thing is already obvious. He was an under appreciated musical genius during his lifetime.
14
My father had Don Shirley Trio LP's constantly on the turntable as I was growing up. There was no discussion of anyone's race or origins. I don't remember the race of the other two players in the trio. We lived in NH in the 1950's - pretty white, as you might imagine. It was always, always the artistry that was discussed. I am not naive enough to think race doesn't matter. The film was... a great artist celebrated (re-hearing the music gave me goose bumps, who listens to the Trio anymore?) and a working stiff, previously unaware, growing to love the music. That was the journey in my family so many years ago, in its own way.
18
“American moviegoers these days largely watch relatively fast-paced obvious movies.”
Personally, I don’t think this is a “these days” phenomenon. I think that, most of the time, people in this country have gone to the cinema simply to have a good time, not to have a weighty, thought-provoking experience - be it escaping the realities of the Great Depression, World War II (and the like) for just an hour or two. Whether it was a damsel in distress tied to train tracks with a train barreling down on her (old Hollywood) or a superhero flick (recent decades), fast paced action has always been a box office staple. The form it takes might have changed a bit but the appetite for it, I believe, has not. As for “obvious” movies, I don’t think Hollywood’s reliance on formulas was any less in the past.
4
@touk
Yes, "Americans" like big-budget movies with lots of action. But on the other, try to find 'art' movies anywhere other than downtown in a handful of big cities. They certainly aren't shown in the multiplexes, where you would think they could dedicate the smallest theater to showing them so the rest of could have a chance at seeing them in the yheatwr.
2
@Observor Unfortunately, I think that’s where economics play a role. If there is not enough foot traffic to financially support the operation of art house cinemas/showings outside of major cities, they just won’t survive (barring some kind of philanthropic subsidy). Even many blockbuster style movie theaters have been struggling/closing in recent years and are, I believe, increasingly reliant on concessions to make money. While the rise of digital distribution is largely responsible for the challenges now faced by traditional cinemas, I think it’s also a distribution channel that better addresses the access/distribution gap you highlight. Anecdotally, I seem to be watching almost exclusively foreign content these days, thanks to the greater access and the large libraries maintained by digital distributors. I would wager that smaller, art house films may similarly be more accessible and reaching larger audiences as a result too.
2
The film serves an important purpose in describing, in one manner, our history of "mans' inhumanity to man" and womens' also; how many people knew about the existence and unfortunate need for the Green Book before this film was issued; how many people knew that Thurgood Marshall could not stay at most local motels when he risked his life over many years lawyering for justice in the American South. And, on a contemporary basis, is there now a need for a new or edited version of the Green Book to identify those cake baker’s etc. who refuse to serve gay individuals?
10
Is this the Academy of the future? Will they nominate only films featuring the work of minorities? Reading the articles that have come out in the last few days, it seems like politics have wormed their way into the cinema arts as well as everyday life in the US. Yes, we are all glad that minorities are getting some recognition of their talents, but they have always been respected when the work was exceptional. What is new is the way Hollywood congratulates itself on that diversity.
8
I liked Ann Hornaday's comment:
"Honestly, I don't think the movie — it's a modest movie. It's a buddy comedy about two men traveling in the Jim Crow South. So, obviously, it is about racism and racial reconciliation. But I don't think it ever set out to be the answer to those things or to cure racism, or to — I think a lot of vitriol is sort of centered around it that it may be never really deserved.
It's a small movie with modest aspirations, very much elevated by its two central performances from Viggo Mortensen and Mahershala Ali. It's a family comedy. Let's remember it's a Page-13 movie that you can take your entire family to. So I think it's really important to always keep — bear in mind what a movie is trying to achieve and judge it on those merits, rather than what we're bringing to it."
27
“We see what happens when you persecute people. They fold into themselves.”
Mahershala Ali
9
Yes of course the film is a failure, despite being actually based on fact… because if it had been about land rights for gay whales, it would have been perfect.
But, you know, it had a white guy in it as a decent person… well a person who learns at any rate… and even though the story is actually true and reflects its time, well, that’s just not good enough.
If only it had had a scene… oh I don’t know… perhaps showing the white male as a secret fetishist of some sort, then it would have been ok?
But no, it just kind of showed two men, one white, one black, that form a friendship.
Gosh, that’s just got to be wrong !
23
I couldn't read ALL these comments, and the endless yacking about GREEN BOOK, a decently made entertaining movie with SOME redeeming points and some reactionary attitude. At least the entirely routine 4th remake of A STAR IS BORN didn't win anything (even if it wasn't as laughably bad as the Streissand version). But I LOVE that there appears to be not one word about THE FAVOURITE, which had all the arty pretense that all the complaining her seems to be about. Me, I hated it. Found it sour, nasty, and unfunny. But still surprised it's not discussed at all here. Melissa McCarthy's costume send up of it was more amusing than the movie itself. And actually more witty and even beautiful than the muddy olive drab with grey gauze gown that adorned "FAVOURITE's" best actress.
3
@Andrew Rudin I loved the Favourite, because I thought it was the opposite of pretentious (spare the ending). It was a great send up of pretentious royal myth.
5
The academy did the right thing
1
What the Oscars reveal every year is that the critics aren't the Academy, or even mainstream viewers. Dargis, Morris, and Scott have their point of views. Protesting after the fact is bad form. I agree with the criticisms of Green Book, but for pete's sake, get over it.
6
This bizarre anti-Caucasian attitude that permeates some peoples' viewpoints of everything is as disturbing as the bully Republicons' reaction to diversity. 'Green Book' was the best film I saw last year, and I saw a lot, including a lot of material that was lauded by critics and was rambling, amateur slop. Kudos to the Academy for picking 'Green Book' vs. the racist films of Spike Lee.
5
@Eugene Debs
Have you SEEN any of Spike Lee's films...racist? Not from my perspective!
It has reduced itself to a niche..and lets face fact.
Until the super hero movies get a place at the table...its not dealing with what the public wants.
the viewers will shrink and this will go to Netflix or something like that.
Lets be honest do you think the general public in this country even know who Audrey Hepburn is? or was?
1
I’m always astonished by the vehemence expressed in comments on articles by the Times film critics. Critics like Manohla Dargis and Wesley Morris have watched hundreds-thousands of films and they provide an informed perspective regardless of how much you personally enjoyed Green Book. It’s their job to analyze the craft and broader cultural meanings of films, not to praise a movie because it was popular. I don’t always agree with them (for example I thought Black Panther was just another superhero movie), but I think it’s foolhardy to demonize them as “elitists” for having different opinions than mass moviegoers.
6
You guys are so out to lunch about Green Book. Do you ever stop and wonder whether you should re-consider your negative points of view when so many movie-goers really love a film? That is to say: those of us who actually still go to the movies and make them financially possible.
Not only does Green Book work as a movie, I learned something I didn't know before -- I had never heard of the actual Green Book. I saw a movie about a slowly-evolving friendship between a white racist and a black musician. The interaction was not a "white savior" one way street. Each of them learned from the other and grew as a result. The film was not trying to make a statement about institutional racism, it was making a statement about friendship across racial lines. And while one such friendship can't put an end to the larger problem of racism, it's a step. If enough steps were taken, we'd get to a better place. So why not get of your critical high horses and allow yourselves to feel good about a good movie?
28
I understand the criticism that Green Book pushed an over-simplified narrative of racial reconciliation - but didn't BlacKkKlansman do pretty much the same thing at times? I'm thinking, for instance, about the scene of good fellowship near the end when all the guys on the team rally around Ron to give the comeuppance to the one racist bad apple among them. And I thought there was something contrived and patronizing in the way Spike Lee made Stallworth's partner, Zimmerman, Jewish. (He wasn't in real life!) It does not seem plausible that someone who chose to regularly wear a Star of David around his neck - which is how in the movie Stallworth says he knew Zimmerman was Jewish - would have never before given any thought to his Jewish identity and seemingly not know anything about anti-semitism.
(For the record, I saw all the contenders: enjoyed Green Book; thought BlacKkKlansman was pretty good; rooted for Roma; but was just relieved that Bohemian Rhapsody didn't win. And I thought Melissa McCarthy should have won best actress - Who knew she could do serious? A chacun son gout!)
13
It may sound pompous, movies can be viewed through two interrelated lenses: as an enjoyable (or not) piece of "entertainment," and/or a well-done piece of "art." The two aren't mutually exclusive (like "Roma") but they often don't overlap. Entertainment can still inflict painful emotions without being artistic.
"Green Book" was primarily entertainment, and the ending was a poor piece of art for sure. But for most of us it was a wonderful film for its entertainment value. (Personally I was disappointed with its choice as best film.) "Roma" required a lot more of us, as Dargis implies. But the art clearly dominated.
Critics seem to want a lot of art out of entertaining films. Ain't gonna happen. Let the public enjoy what it enjoys.
5
There seem to be a lot of factors at play in what movie is chosen for the highest honour. I think for a film to be among the nominees is more significant than who actually wins.
2
Enough already with the whining about "Green Book." Harry Belafonte praised it as well many others. Simply, it works as a movie, and I hope the win garners more profit.
13
When Spike Lee was denied an Oscar for best picture, he displayed behavior that disappoints; a temper tantrum in Hollywood's biggest sandbox. I'd still like to have a gander at his prepared acceptance speech if he had won. I'll bet it was a doozy.
13
Is there any chance simple election realities came into play? Multiple options for a “black” film produced a compromise winner?
Are protestors effectively demanding a new Oscar for “most politically correct?” Let’s not try the separate but equal thing again.
“Green Book” was based on a white man’s book. Mr. Shirley didn’t write one. The tour happened in the South. It was studio entertainment.
It is a fine film, with a tone appropriate to Mr. Shirley’s elegant artistry, and I can tell you, it did provoke serious soul searching about how my northern Midwestern hometown’s hotels refused to house Ray Charles in that era.
11
Can it really be an Oscar night without Meryl Streep?
5
We can all talk ad infinitum about creative works without coming to an agreement. It is inconceivable that all stakeholders of a creative work will like it. So let us just move on.
1
Holy moly, reading the comments made me think that most of the writers miss the point of what critics are supposed to do: watch movies critically. The Green Book was not a particularly artful film, nor was it very good. I thought Mortensen’s acting was off - which didn’t help - but mostly the little pieces that didn’t make a cohesive whole bothered me. Taking it apart by these critics is not an instance of fairness. Rather it goes to them doing their job.
3
Everyone thinks their view of the Oscars is the correct one. Everyone thinks their choice for Best Picture is right. I am not a fan of Picasso, I do not get daVinci. They stand as great artists regardless of my view. Sometimes your team wins, sometimes not. We still root for our team. I am a woman, I roar even when no one hears me or gives me an award.
6
“but the three hours and change also had a feeling of borrowed time. I found myself wondering who this whole thing is for, whether it can keep going in its current form and whether any of us would miss it if it went away.”
I didn’t watch it. You did, and not only watched but took the time to pick it apart in pieces. To answer your questions: It is clearly for you, and You would miss it.
5
There was a ton of controversy surrounding Do the Right Thing. Spike was on Nightline and bunch of other news show to explain it. At that time, Brooklyn was not a great place to live in. (Spike and I went to John Dewey HS in near Coney Island at the same time. A magnet school that was safe and bully free.) Bernie Goetz, Howard Beach, Son of Sam and ultra high crime were in the news. Spike's parable was not fully understood and somewhat feared.
The Oscars is not an award of Arts and Letters. It's one of commercial and popular success. It's about the money.
12
@Mike B I thought Spike Lee went to St. Ann's, a private school in Brooklyn Heights.
Green Book was simply a good movie, a funny movie, and even a though-provoking and informative movie. I'm sure it's competitors were equally good, just as I'm sure Close and Colman and Adams were equally good. Why nitpick the choices, or pretend that they represent an older, whiter, or male Academy? The same "guys" picked Moonlight and Shape of Water--were they less white/old/male the last 2 years?
41
I like Spike Lee. I like to see NYer's win, mostly (not Presidential elections). But he gets a lot of high regards ("finally won") despite a body of work that is not that distinguished in my view. Malcolm X could have been a masterpiece (it's still a very good film, Lee's best I believe) and I cry to think how much better it would have been if he hadn't cast himself in it. Attitude alone is not enough. Turn off the sound and watch anything by him and compare to anything by Alfonso Cuarón.
9
@Mike B
Spike CAN make great movies. He can NOT act.
Somewhat like that other NYer whoo can NOT presidentiate.
Both seem to be surrounded by folk who can't speak truth to power.
3
This all seems so incredibly childish -- who won this award, who didn't win it. Have none of us matured beyond high school? The fact is, all of these movies are going to be seen by millions of people around the world. What more could any real artist want for his or her work than that? Never mind what a handful of "experts" decide. What do YOU think about the movie you just saw? Did it move you? Did you find parts of it objectionable? That's all that really matters.
28
How disappointing that these critics can articulate the shallow and hackneyed themes of Green Book and not see how similarly problematic Roma is. Green Book is clearly a much lesser film, but in their awe of Cuarón's mastery of the craft (yes, it is sublime!) they choose to ignore comparable complexities.
Initially, I chose to read Roma as a searing critique on faux gender, race and class solidarity in the "me too" moment, but when I saw Cuarón in several interviews describe the film's motifs so un-ironically, it became clear that this was not the intent.
I'm especially disappointed by Wesley Morris. He says Roma's politics are "quiet and private." I say they they are too quiet, too nostalgic, and strangely conciliatory (much like Green Book). I expect from Morris a more discerning analysis about the power dynamics at play not only in Roma's denouement, but also in the film's fanfare. While he rightly criticizes Rep. Lewis' troublesome intro to Green Book at the Oscar's, he ignores the grossly paternalistic and insulting one to Roma by Diego Luna & José Andres.
When the industry opens its doors to a more diverse set of Mexican women filmmakers, we may begin to see more critical and nuanced portrayals of our lives. And then we may not have to rely on the Cuarón's, the Del Torro's, and the Iñárritu's (and I'm a huge fan of Iñárritu!), to be the ones who give that disturbingly nostalgic and stoic "voice" to our voicelessness and who make our complexities less "invisible."
12
well said.
1
Peter Farrelly and the producers of "Green Book" have already announced their next project, to be entitled "Israel/Palestine, What's in a Name?" The narrative revolves around an Israeli Jew and a Palestinian Muslim who take turns driving each other around the Occupied Territories and who, after a series of comic misunderstandings punctuated by religious and racial epithets, come to respect one another over their mutual antipathy towards Jesus and pork. Expect lots of awards buzz and some potential blacklash if Farrelly exposes himself during the film's production only to reveal that he hasn't been circumcised.
24
The major absence in the In Memoriam segment was Stanley Donen, who had died only a few days before. I imagined him there, his image followed by a quick clip of Gene Kelly on that lampost in the rain.
11
Oh my. You three have really lost your minds, or at least your common sense. I am a quite progressive white New York male, and a film buff and student of American history, especially the history of oppression, Jim Crow, etc. The African American experience in America is a subject I care deeply about. I consider myself sensitive to injustice and open to learning more. I am so perplexed by your lockstep criticism of this fine film. You suggest that the film recycled a common trope of the white savior. Really?I guess John Louis’s approval of this film shows he likes white savior films? What about the positive review by Kareem Abdul Jabar in the Hollywood Reporter?
This film portrays one unique story based on historical fact that educates the average viewer (ok, the average white viewer) about conditions in this country in the early 1960’s through the vehicle of a white racist and an eccentric black piano virtuoso, two characters who travel through the South in the early 1960’s. The hostility toward the film that you three convey sound like the real trope here — liberal film critics who are so in the weeds of film criticism and identity politics that you cannot see the forest from the artistic trees.That the film is shown from the perspective of the bigoted white character is not a crime. It’s an art device. Here’s what Jabar said:“The film is much more effective from Tony’s point of view because the audience that might be most changed by watching it is the white audience.”
62
@SethF: Kareem isn't a film critic. If the three critics who've written this piece had instead opined about basketball, would you say that their comments carried as much weight as Mr. Jabar's?
4
@stu freeman Jabbar is a thoughtful, intelligent activist. Yes, I value his take on this film more than most people's, including critics.
18
@stu freeman
Of course Kareem Abdul-Jabbar's opinion carries more weight than those of these three critics! Abdul-Jabbar is a black Muslim NBA superstar who came of age in the 60s & 70s, during the height of the civil rights movement, and he shares the experience of being a black star who traveled through the south shortly after Mr. Shirley, during the 60s to mid 80s.
Undoubtedly, Abdul-Jabbar's adventures would make for a fascinating movie, which wouldn't have anything to do w him driving you around a middle eastern desert.
16
When I saw it in the theater, I enjoyed Green Book and felt it did a very good job of portraying outstanding African American musicians who can caught in a cultural no man's land. Having worked with many prominent jazz musicians, this can be very true. However, my support for the movie is dampened by the concerns of Mr. Shirley's family. While it's certainly a "feel good" movie, I would call Roma a "feel great" movie. In addition to reminding us to appreciate the "invisible" people in our lives, it seemed a nice combination of the work of Fellini and Ozu although lacking the sense of humor present in these masters' finest work. But I guess this style of film is just too leisurely and episodic for American audiences.
5
@jonr As a gay musician in my 60's and experiencing a difficult time coming out to my family a long time ago, regarding the disdain that critics and people have about the movie Green Book. No one has bothered to consider how much more difficult it might have been for Dr. Shirley to come out way back in his time as a noted pianist. His father was a priest, and the rest of his family we don't know how they accepted it, or if he even told them. I had the lucky occasion to ride in the Carnegie Hall elevator with him, who I didn't know who he was until I asked my friends who worked there and they explained who he was and that he lived upstairs in the artists apartments. I remember he was a wonderfully flamboyant older gentlemen, and when I heard about the Green Book movie, I was excited to see it and loved every minute of it. He was the hero of the movie and it was quite the history lesson of a shameful time in our history. I grew up in a rather racist and homophobic hometown and then I moved to NYC in the early 80's and started living among diversity of all kinds that negated my fears. So for me, not only is this a well written, acted, directed and produced movie but one that has and will affect a lot of people who still are blinded by the ugliness of intolerance, and it might just change their way of looking at things and people. Fear of the unknown is the root of intolerance.
38
@rex Thank you! I also remember the sundown towns and the prejudice about almost anything different. A friend of mine traveled on a southern tour family with a "hippie" rock and roll band during the 60s, who were given ugly treatment and threatened on several occasions. Sadly we have not completely emerged from that hatred.
5
I did the same thing in the early 70's - traveling through the west in a Long haired R & R band.
This was right before the days of what we called "The cowboys discover long hair, Love and acid". The threats and intimidation against us publicly was something. Not to mention a few actual attempts on our lives through vehicular homicide.
I can't tell you how many times I was stopped while walking in my own neighborhood as a teen because I wore a leather jacket and long hair. According to the cops it was because I matched a wanted description...Sure.
We played in N. New Mexico & AZ and literally - Everyone hated everyone else, but the one thing they ALL agreed upon was their hatred for Native Americans ...
I lived in New Orleans for a time in the 60's, having grown up in the Pacific NW, & saw for the 1st time the terrible treatment of Black people. It was a revelation.
So every time a Spike Lee or their ilk preaches what I know or don't know about the issue, well, it really galls me. I've seen much & been on the receiving end of much.
For a time, it seemed like folks were waking up and dropping the hatred but it is worse than ever & the Internet & folks like the 3 here just fuel the fires.
8
Is anyone singing the praises of Roma's sound design? Seeing (and hearing) Roma in a cinema was such a moving experience for many reasons - image, acting, mise-en-scène - and supporting the integrity of it all, a cohesive carpet of ambience.
14
Q: “Why Does Hollywood Keep Falling for Racial Reconciliation Fantasies?"
A: To the extent that those reconciliations have been real, they're an affront to those who'd rather pick at a scab than let it heal -- i.e, who have a vested interest in acrimony.
If Hollywood is going to indulge in virtue signaling, better it be of the sort that encourages people to feel better about themselves -- and about EACH OTHER. There's already too little of that these days, as it is.
Anyone who's got a problem with that is part of the problem.
20
Academy awards have always been based on politics, favoritism, racism and factors along those lines. The true award is the success of a movie or a character at the box office. Everything else is fluff and tainted by failings of the academy. I will not have any respect for the academy until the day women get paid equal to men and a zero tolerance policy is enacted against sexual harassment of any kind.
3
What kind of delusional, entitled loser goes into a film thinking that it should 100% adhere to their idea of what a movie about race relations should center on?
Also, what kind of simpleton expects a film to usher in the Age of Aquarius simply by addressing race relations, be it with The Green Book approach, or through something more provocative like BlacKKKlansmen?
Of all the lame controversies of the past few years, this might be the lamest.
28
Yes Driving Miss Daisy and Crash come to mind when we think of the oversimplification of race, but I think of American History X and Monster’s Ball. One has Ed Norton, a masochistic white supremicist finding redemption after doing daily laundry with a black prisoner. Then there is Billy Bob Thornton accepting black neighbors after a porn scene with Halle Berry. Both movies ended like Green Book with the Hollywood sentiment of a once racist white man saying “Aw schucks, those black people ain’t so bad.”
3
Because they couldn't be bothered to mention or thank Dr. Don Shipley, I'm beginning to think Peter Farrelly didn't really want to consult with Dr. Shipley's family not that they failed to find them.
4
@Tedj
I think I read somewhere the family had objections or at least concerns about how Dr. Shipley was portrayed.
1
The elephant in the room - Don Shirley was gay and the family doesn’t want him portrayed as such. If the family is not the estate holder, it does not need to be consulted. If you died, would you want all your nieces and nephews to control your biography? Dr. Shirley told Nick Vallelonga he had his blessing to use any stories Nick’s dad told him about the trip.
People love this film. There is applause at the end. Maybe the voters felt something.
26
Thank you for this provocative discussion. But it's not about quality or art or originality. It's a self-serving fashion show with participation trophies, and every year many undeserving nominees mystify both critics and public, winning over obviously superior work, due to PR and guilt and greed, not artistic achievement. Impersonation gets more attention than originating a role, sadly. History is regularly revised. The "Academy" muffs the nominations and awards over and over--but the annual TV show operates on different principles. Garish, bawdy, and often embarrassing.
And, of course, I watch every year.
7
I can’t believe everyone is so worked up about the Oscars. It’s just movies, people!
16
@CS
The Oscar event is an occasion to reminisce about the films you have seen over the year and then share feelings with others about one another's reactions...and we love this art form so much that the opportunity to converse around the topic of a film (like so many do around Harry Potter Books) is a thrill...and how those films are presented is part of the discussion...and getting wee glimpses of those artists who have excelled in their work is also a treat. Accept the passions for they are deep.
I was rooting for Roma. Then Green Book won and I was almost as happy.....Is that even allowed ?
15
@jim reinhart, I felt the same way. (Harry Belafonte praised this film, too.)
3
The Green Book debacle reminds us that there is often more than one version of the truth. Would anyone dare to dispute that Blacks experienced racism in 1962? But what that racism looked like and felt like depends on who you ask. Or who you are. Nick Vallelonga decided that the Shirley family could have nothing to add to the story he wanted to tell about the heroic epiphany of his own father. Vallelonga now conveniently says that he was unaware of the continuing existence of the Shirley family. Thus, the movie rings false, and all of the accolades strike a distinctly sour note. The Academy should have known better. There were several better choices. Better versions of the truth.
7
“Roma” is boring.
Interminable opening credits with splashing water followed by more splashing water followed by more splashing water.
The maid walks from screen right across a huge living space to screen left then she walks from screen left across the same huge living space to screen right.
Soon she walks up many steps to the rooftop then she walks down many steps to the large living space.
The frenetic response to the tepid forest fire was a joke.
The birth scene was well done.
The bouncing willy was groundbreaking.
10
I didn’t think it was boring, I loved it (OK the opening credits were boring)! And thought about it for several days after. Very funny, very beautiful and heart wrenching. Incredibly well done. Are cinema for sure.
3
It is interesting to watch John Lewis--a true hero and black Civil Rights icon--praise Green Book and white self-styled progressives pan it.
33
@DSM14 right!
4
@DSM14
"white self-styled progressives pan it." Not sure why you would exclude all the criticisms offered by "progressive" black people. They were legion as well. Pretty sure that was Lee huffing and puffing after the Best Picture was announced.
2
Aside from the pompous celebrities,the fawning sycophants and those serving this vacuous industry,does anyone really care for this grotesque evening of calculated backslapping?
7
@Lord Snooty
I'm guessing pretty much everyone posting here. I certainly hope you did not waste your time watching it.
3
Dargis wrote: "I think you’re right about the chances of “Roma” winning best picture, particularly given that academy members are (wrongly) allowed to watch nominees at home, where they hit the pause button at will. “
I think you're entitled to your opinions, especially the wrong ones. Watching a movie at home, sometimes on a very big screen, doesn't diminish the grandeur and large tableau invested in the project by the filmmaker. In fact it may enhance the enjoyment by not dealing with ambient noise, comments, and sticky floors and seats. My wife, a department head, watched several screeners at home and thought that "Roma", along with "Bohemian Rhapsody" were the best. And, we didn't hit the pause button once. Several of her industry colleagues also expressed the appreciation for "Roma"s" qualities that you so correctly mentioned which, although a small sample, shows that great films can be appropriately judged despite or maybe because of a small screen in a quiet and intimate environment and with a device containing a pause button.
10
Any history teachers out there?
ask your students and/or their parents if they knew anything about the Green Book or Sundown Towns and or what segregation was like for a good part of the twentieth century in large parts of the United States before seeing this film. The depiction of a painful social reality is not easy. It is a genuine achievement of this film that it told its grim story with charm and vividness.
57
@shivayon...perfect summation...i had never heard of "the green book" and the rest of your comments....i loved this film...thanks....
10
For anyone who is interested, "The Green Book: Guide to Freedom," is on the Smithsonian Channel several times between tomorrow (Wed., 2/27) a.m. and Sunday, 3/3.
4
@shivayon Yes, its main merit was acquinting people with the Green Book and with Don Shirley.
The amount of energy expended on these forgettable movies and nonsensical pompous actors and actresses always troubles me. If we could capture all this hot air we could power the world.
11
The commentators here seem like self-conscious gender and race studies majors vying to keep Professor pleased.
37
@Rocky Best comment I’ve read so far.
3
The so called movie experts are apoplectic when they get it wrong. Every person I talked to loved Green Book because it was an entertaining, meaningful movie for us regular folks. I am 72, and this movie reminded me of what it was really like in the South while I was growing up.
Roma was slow and well, meaningless, to those who aren't doctoral students in film or perhaps of Hispanic heritage.
Yay for the academy voters.
I was sorry Ms. Close didn't win, but her movie was mediocre. With better material, she will win because she has the talent.
24
@JFK III - To be fair, it is not the academy's job to reward filmmakers for creating art that appeals to "us regular folks." It is the members' responsibility to use their savvy about film making to honor the very best of the year's crop. That's why so many film aficionados and critics are disappointed at the Oscar going to Green Book; a good, but in no way great film, with a nice, but not powerful, story.
9
@JFK III
I know many women, especially those of a certain age, who adored The Wife. Mediocre....hmmmmm, it too tells a tale about issues of discrimination that we have been working to overcome.
The many voices rising up to defend Green Book seem convinced that Green Book skeptics are just politically correct practitioners of "identity politics."
That is a delicious irony, as the apt criticism of Green Book is that it is a feel good-look at racism from the majority point of view. It allows white folks to feel really, really good at how virtuous they are to empathize with the victims of explicit racism. That allows them to claim, "See, I'm not racist!" or "I really don't see the color of anyone's skin." "We're all members of the human race."
The most vocal opponents of so-called "identity politics" are people who have never had their "identity" used as a bludgeon against their humanity.
15
@Barking Doggerel
I'm not racist. I really really don't see the color of anyone's skin. We're all members of the human tribe.
I just don't like anybody very much. (Apologies to the Kingston Trio)
5
@Barking Doggerel - "The majority point of view" shouldn't be denigrated because it is out of touch with the African American experience. After all, in our racially and socio/economically segregated society, most white Americans have had very little direct exposure to black Americans. That doesn't make us "insensitive" or "unsympathetic" or - worse - "racist!" but it does make us awfully tired of being called those things. Ponder that.
3
@Barking Doggerel What makes a life matter is the content of its character, not the color of its skin. Got a problem with that?
People who've had their "identity" used as a bludgeon against their humanity should blame those wielding the bludgeon -- the perpetrators, not the ostensible beneficiaries (who themselves may have been defrauded into accepting plundered goods).
3
So really, the critics sees to treasure some idea that THE ACADEMY used to get it all right all of the time, or that there is some ultimate truth that everyone needs to get about the film INDUSTRY. (Business has a great deal to to with it). There have been plenty of misses -
The OSCARS is a show about insiders rewarding those in the business for their triumphs . the triumphs sometimes have to do with entertainment, more than any illumination. And if a movie is liked by the public and makes money, it's a success.
And What would the Oscars be if there weren't moments like Spike Lees? If they suddenly embraced him as an insider, someone should check his pulse --because he will probably have lost his edge.
A tangent that may be relevant:
2017 and 2018 have been for many people highly stressful, full of foreboding about where the country is headed, and jagged political divisions. During unsettled times, movie viewers often want a dose of something hopeful something soothing. They don;t want to be confronted by any more reality in the theater - or at home - they want to get away.
5
Those who are criticizing Green Book as a "white savior" or "white enlightenment" film clearly failed to understand the historical context.
The story is about Tony Lip, a working class, first-generation U.S.-born Italian -- who, in 1962, was perceived as "white" in New York but not in most parts of the country. His native language is Italian, and he has a limited education. He immediately respects and looks up to Dr. Shirley -- rebuking him not because of his race, but because he is a member of an elite social class that has excluded Tony and immigrants generally.
The film demonstrates how American society attempted (and obviously by these comments, still attempts) to dichotomize the sociocultural divide into either "black" or "white," when really many of us fall into either category depending on the circumstances.
Both Tony and Dr. Shirley learned a lot from each other -- the film is not about Tony "discovering" anything about people of color. Their journey through the bigoted rural South is what caused each of them to realize that they are each unlike mainstream Americans and far more similar to each other, with shared experiences of discrimination and stereotyping.
Yes, the directors are a bunch of white dudes. That's a problem. But that doesn't detract from the facts that (1) this film is based on a true story; (2) it is quite timely and relevant; and (3) it calls for unity in the face of adversity, not for division.
42
@Terry Scudieri
Thank you. My grandfather was a working class Sicilian who came to the US through Ellis Island. His brothers lived in New York and New Jersey, and the scene at the end in the kitchen brought me to tears. So many memories of Sunday gravy, spilled wine and family discussions.
I'm just going to say I enjoyed the film and dismiss all the condescending comments. I saw 7 of the 8 movies, and I just don't understand all the hate.
14
@Terry Scudieri It's a movie about a White man, so it deserved to win Best Picture?
@Alyson, that’s not even remotely close to what I said.
15
Green Book’s win says more about the statistical problem of choosing among eight movies than any profound trends. The people who liked that film were not going to vote for anything else, whereas there was probably a lot of overlap between potential votes for Roma, Blackkklansman, Black Panther and possibly A Star is Born, and the handful of votes for The Favourite and Vice would have been spoilers for one of them. Having more nominees skews the vote.
Also, recent rule changes creating greater diversity has upended the traditional unspoken code among the voters: while it might have appeared that there were five nominees in any given category it was understood that the race was really between only two of them, nudge wink. But now that old boy network is gone, and it’s more wide open now.
The only way to really have a fair consensus vote - which also might make for more exciting television- is to announce the two top vote-getters in each category, and then conduct a runoff vote right then and there among the live audience and Academy members voting electronically from home. That way you’d get a much more accurate idea of how the Academy truly feels about its artists and its work.
3
@James Jacobs The Academy uses preference voting - so this is already accounted for in their voting format.
1
I liked Green Book. And I wont do the trendy thing and pretend I didn't.
28
So much virtue signalling I'm gagging on it.
How many of you think Gone With The Wind is among the greatest American movies ever made?
7
@stilldana
I do and stand by it. You can't judge people by what happened in those times current standards.
1
it was a good movie...no the best movie. it won't be talked about in 5 years about having to be seen.
heck, Shakespeare in Love (1998) now doens't look that bad of choice!
2
I wonder if all the folks raving about Green Book know anything about The real green book.
It was a booklet made by a black man
To help other black people navigate through the south to places where they could stop to eat, sleep or use the bathrooms without having to fear for their lives!!
My father lived through this period and always had a anxiety when driving down to his parents home in Georgia.
This movie trivializes the pain and suffering of hundreds of thousands of people.
3
@WMA
Actually it vividly shows the reality of lodging options even for an educated, talented artist who happened not to be white.
13
OK, here's a view from down under: 'correct' politics seems to have obliterated all aesthetic considerations among the US chatterati. Evidence: this bizarre conversation. Even the comment about GREEN BOOK being a well-constructed film comes relatively late in the discussion, almost as an afterthought.
15
@WMA I'm truly sorry that you feel GB "trivializes the pain and suffering of thousands of people."
For me, and I imagine a number of other viewers, the movie shone a spotlight on this piece of American history -- recent history, at that -- that was heretofore unknown. Moreover, the movie made it impossible for the viewer to ignore or dismiss it. That's the opposite of trivializing.
10
Oh, and watch Seth Meyers' short, " WHITE SAVIOR: THE MOVIE TRAILER". Amber Ruffin is one of the most brilliant comedians today. https://www.nbc.com/late-night-with-seth-meyers/video/white-savior-the-movie-trailer/3911478
6
Those judging the judges who voted for the winner in any Oscar category for the best “ “ has transcended social politics as a mechanism to hijack a societal conscience to emancipate art from the political they created themselves.
Perhaps the Academy should consider not picking winners anymore and just honor those nominated, much like how some peewee league games are played that nobody wins nor looses....
2
If the Oscars went away I'd miss the opportunity to see all the beautiful clothes. I loved the diversity of the presenters and winners last night, and didn't miss a host (although if they wanted to have Tina Fey and Amy Poehler every year I'd be fine with that. Or Trevor Noah.) Overall though, I was mostly saddened by the fact that Glenn Close didn't win. Her performance in The Wife was unforgettable, and she's been so good for so long! Olivia Coleman is great, and Melissa McCarthy was fabulous and surprising as Lee Israel, but I thought this should have been Close's year.
2
The only memorable line from last night's Oscar viewing is my son's: "You mean DO THE RIGHT THING never won any Oscars?"
11
In this hyper-politicized, tribal identity world, I no longer believe that Academy Awards have much to do with artistic achievement.
9
@Mary Ann - It boggles the mind to think that anyone could study, however briefly, the film making, storytelling, music, acting and costuming that runs deep through the Oscar ceremony and NOT see the artistic achievement therein. Astounding.
1
What it says is that movies that make white people - men, in particular - feel they're"not racist" are big winners with white people - men, in particular - at the academy who want to feel good, while still refusing to recognize the talent and accomplishments of blacks and other minorities in the business. Yay, Academy! It's like Driving Miss Daisy, but with the driver in the back - now, that's progress!
7
@Patricia - Except...the ceremony and the awards absolutely DID recognize the talent and accomplishments of blacks and other minorities. Did you not watch the show?
6
@Patricia
FYI
•Actor: Rami Malek, (Egyptian)
“Bohemian Rhapsody”
•Supporting Actress: Regina King, (African American) “If Beale Street Could Talk”
Supporting Actor Mahershala Ali (African American), “Green Book”
Production Design
“Black Panther,” Hannah Beachler (African American)
Costume Design
“Black Panther,” Ruth E. Carter (African American)
3
Watching “Roma” I was struck by how much the character of Cleo reminded me of Mammy in “Gone With The Wind”: the good-hearted, noble domestic who is the emotional and moral center of a family that loves and values her even as they never forget (nor let her forget) that she is a slave. The difference is that Hattie McDaniel had so much more to work with than Yalitza Aparicio. Even as good as she was, Hattie McDaniel could not have carried “GWTW” if it had focused primarily on her, as “Roma” did on Cleo. Ultimately, Roma was an interesting movie but not, in my opinion, Oscar worthy.
12
I agree that the Times is being incredibly condescending to people who liked Green Book. Maybe it’s not the greatest movie ever, but it’s not the devil’s spawn. I’ve lost count of how many articles have called it simplistic, or controversial (which seems to mean, touching), or said it “panders to liberals’ smug self-image” or [my favorite] “the aging, white audience loved it.” There was even a headline asking: “Why Does Hollywood Keep Falling for Racial Reconciliation Fantasies?” The critics seem to be offended that the movie isn’t negative enough - and now who's being smug? If we a warm, interracial friendship is now assumed to be a fantasy, heaven help us.
74
Hollywood feels it can pat itself on the back for being progressive because it went from Driving Miss Daisy to Miss Daisy's Driving.
7
None of this analysis means anything when the most vital data, the vote counts per picture, are unavailable.
My guess is that Roma and Black Klansman split a large chunk of the vote allowing Green Book to win.
Postulating about what the win means is pointless. This is a trade show for pop art. I think it's so funny that AMPAS proposed a pop movie category and its members pushed back.
It's ALL pop art.
8
So many of us watch the Oscars to see the stars and check their gowns. The men's outfits, however, have captured our attention, at least as much. Their outfits are more playful and colorful each year. Of course, we're curious about the academy's choices, and this year's 'Green Book' hit the bull's eye. The groans, disbelief, disappointment and cheers may have elicited as much noise as Gaga and Cooper's steamy duet drew the heat. Oscar was better this year, including its backward hug of the 'Green Book'. See the original book created by a bright postman. It provided maps and tips for traveling Negroes with reason to be concerned about their safety.
8
The Green Book...order it on Amazon. Yes.
"Green Book" was the worst movie I saw this year. Not the worst nominee for Best Picture -- the WORST, full stop. Simplistic, formulaic, boring. One-dimensional characters inhabiting a world with a very (ahem) black-and-white version of racism.
Golly gee, we're in Maryland, we're safe now! Thanks for the blankey, officer!
In my bubble, Obama is still president and the Best Picture Oscar winner for 2018 is "Sorry to Bother You." Apologies, Spike.
6
A white savior story made by a bunch of white people to lionize a white man is voted 'Best Picture' by the (mostly) white Academy. No big surprise there.
It may be a fine film - Mahershala Ali and Viggo Mortensen are both very fine actors - but Hollywood needs to stop making white savior films. All white savior films do is make white people feel better about the sad and sorry history of white racism. People of color, on the other hand, do not and have never needed white saviors.
9
Except this was not a white savior film at all, if you watched and understood it. If anything, Tony Lip was saved by Dr. Shirley.
8
For Dargis the purpose of the Oscars is for Hollywood to prove its inclusiveness. I thought it was about best performance in one's profession. Half of America is obsessed with political correctness and half is sick of the obsession. It's like Black Lives Matter OR Blue Lives Matter. You support traditional families OR gay marriage. Why can't one support both? We have become a country where one has to choose sides.
14
“Traditional family” is a euphemism for anti-gay marriage. It’s impossible to support both. Bad example.
1
@Mssr. Pleure "Traditional marriage is a euphemism for anti-gay marriage"? Are you claiming that every conventional heterosexual marriage is "anti-gay" --or that the term "traditional marriage" is merely a euphemism for bigotry?
Wrong on both counts! Penpoint's assertion that "we can support both" is not an expression of bigotry - even as it recognizes that acceptance of same-sex marriage is innovative (and necessary) social policy -- in a positive way.
As a gay male, I'm sick and tired of the whinings of a "queerer-than-thou" contingent that can't take "yes" for an answer. FWIW, I feel the same way about those who bridle against reconciliation regarding race.
4
@Mitchell CORRECTION: Both commentators that I've quoted use the term "traditional family," not "traditional marriage." Substituting the correctly-quoted term, I continue to stand by what I wrote.
2
Imagine if someone in this conversation had said something interesting that thousands of other Liberal bloggers haven't already said a thousand times.
6
Yes, isn't it terrible when people agree? Assuming you accept Liberals as people equal to yourself!
I didn't see all the movies that were up for awards but was happy Green Book won and that awards were spread out over a number of movies. I was following along the NYT chat while watching the show which is usually fun to do, but as the evening went on the NYT critics were really knocking Green Book and it felt like it became all about race. So not much fun and kind of unprofessional.
17
Serena Williams presenter? Really?
12
Thank goodness I didn't see Green Book, and I will never see that bland piece of jelly.
1
How do you know? Answer: you don't.
8
Hey, don't underestimate jelly! I like grape myself!
1
I watched 6 of 8 leading up to the Oscars and to be honest, all the hate on Green Book seems a bit phony to me. It was relatively speaking, a bit of a weaker field compared to previous years, but Green Book is a really nice movie that is well shot and very well acted. Maybe it wasn't my number one choice, but it was a worthy contender in this field, and isn't just the discussion of these movies the fun part? Do we have to take personal offense just because our favorite, or the more arty film didn't win?
On screen there was still plenty to take home after watching Green Book, and to me that was enough that it didn't ruin my night when it won. Everyone needs to relax...we're talking a subjective competition about movies...all the nominees will still be able to pay their rent this month.
47
@jeff s Well put! Always amazes me how much snobbery there is among film critics....as if movies are some arcane art that only a self-appointed elite truly understand!
9
Next year if there were no Oscar event would most of us really care?
I doubt most of us would.
9
@GWB - If by "most of us" you mean the folks in San Antonio TX, I imagine you're right. The rest of America isn't San Antonio.
1
@dean bush
No geographical limitation inferred nor intended.
Come visit our River Walk. Within easy walking distance of the Alamo. Catch a show at the Majestic Theater. Grab a taco.
Thanks for the comment.
1
I didn’t see The Favourite or The Wife so I can’t comment on best actress. However I did see all of the best picture nominees and to me the best movie far and away was Bohemian Rhapsody . I absolutely loved it. Green Book was good but not best picture in my opinion.
1
If you didn't see The Favourite, then you didn't see all of the nominees for Best Picture.
3
Bottom line, it is all about opinion, which is subjective. Why does the Best Picture have to make some kind of statement? Can't it just be entertaining. I go to the movies to be entertained, to forget my troubles. I don't go to be lectured on issues important to some celebrity. I read the news every day. When I go to the movies I want to escape the harsh reality of the "real world". I really enjoyed Green Book. If Spike Lee didn't like it, that's his problem.
31
It was a great Oscar night until the award for best picture. It seems like any of the other films would have made a significant statement. "Green Book" seemed to be simply a safe choice by the academy. Or, perhaps its the fault of the waited balloting. Perhaps "Green Book" won because it made the least statement and therefore got the most second place votes. I agree with Spike: it felt like the refs at a sporting event blew a game changing call.
7
Several comments. I saw 7 of the nominated films.
Roma...I am the only person I know who made it through the entire film and it took me 5 tries. No one else made it past the opening credits. The emperors new clothes. And I LIKE to watch paint dry. Beautifully filmed though.
Green Book....getting a bad rap. Its story is from the book written by Tony’s son. From the perspective of the white guy. According to several sources Dr. Shirley was estranged from his family. Somebody talk to the Executive Producer, Octavia Spencer. Shined a light on the Jim Crow South. It, in my opinion not the best film, but excellent.
BlacKkKlansman...best film of the year for it’s message. Will take its place next to “ Do the Right Thing “. An amazing true story. The juxtapositions that Lee made as the director are amazing.
But, I would have been happy to see Black Panther or A Star in Born get the award. Both fabulous.
13
@Marina Beirne Totally agree about Roma. I had trouble staying awake and was waiting 2 1/4 hours for something, anything to happen. Not even male frontal nudity could jolt me awake. Beautifully shot, plotless, and self indulgent film that should not have been on any awards list. BlackkKlansman was definitely the strongest film and the fact it didn't win was surprising. In general, I thought it was a weak field of contenders, with the exception of Lee's film.
7
Thank you. Agree 100%. Spot on.
No doubt I am showing my age (68), but to me the Oscars have lost all their glamor and fun. The focus now seems less on good movies and more on checking the correct identity politics boxes. This is sad given that movies are one of America’s great contributions to the world.
37
First Man is not 'a relic'. It's a great film, way better than most last year, made by one of the most exciting directors working today.
6
Manohla, forget Roma's initial sweep of the family's empty house--impatient small-screen viewers might not have made it past the opening credits, when mop water washes across and into a floor drain for, well, a WHILE. (It's my favorite film of last year apart from Burning, btw. But the opening is practically a dare to viewers to stick with it. It brought to mind Sofia Coppola's Somewhere, which opens with about a five-minute shot of a car driving around a track.)
8
Looks like the Academy took a lesson from Bill Maher this week on how not to be condescending...
Sometimes people just want a nice story.
9
The average age of male best actor Oscar winners is 50. The average age of female best actress winners is 25 (look it up). The fact that Glenn Close (who is 71) has given AT LEAST 3 Oscar winning performances should walk away empty handed after 7 nominations and arguably her finest performance to date smacks of sexism and ageism. It's an absolute travesty. What on earth were they thinking giving the best actress Oscar to a (very fine) supporting performance like Olivia Colman's???
12
@robert
How could it be sexism? Isn't the award for best actress?
Also, she wasn't 71 for each of those 7 nominations. So, ageism?
She is a fine actress and I enjoy her work but sometimes the other person wins.
11
@Robert
Close should have won for at least "Garp" and/or "Dangerous Liasons".
The Oscars used to be fun. Now we just lectured about "diversity." Some of the commentators act like they've never seen a black or Asian person in a movie before. Here's an idea: award Oscars for truly the best, regardless of skin color or gender.
33
I wish Close had won. I'm thrilled for Roma, though. So put off by Green Book I'm not even planning to see it. Yet another White Savoir flick. Meh.
9
@Person it's not a white savior flick at all, literally the opposite.
5
@warne no it’s driving miss daisy in reverse
Regarding Wesley Morris comment on Glenn Close and risk taking in American movie acting, I have always admired Ms. Close because, when she was at the highest point of her film career, she was performing on stage and in several tv dramas (including a PBS drama). I don't think any of her contemporaries were doing that.
12
Some thoughts: The only movie I saw that was nominated for Best Picture was Green Book, so I have no idea whether it was "better" (whatever that means) than any of the others. It was the only one I was interested in seeing, because of the actors involved.
Dr. Shirley's family has been very vocal in saying that the movie doesn't represent him & his life. I have no idea if this is true or not, & neither does anyone else commenting. I can say that aside from my brother, no one in my family of origin would be able to tell the real story of my life, & I'm sure I'm not the only person to be in that situation. So just because someone is family doesn't mean that they really knew their family member.
Like it or not, what the movie showed is how things were back in 1962. Just because a certain portion of the American population has evolved in its way of thinking & realizes how awful the racial situation was then (although frankly, I'm not sure that it's much better now) doesn't mean that we should make historical movies using today's values—it's not an accurate portrayal of history to do so.
I find it curious that no one seems to be interviewing the executive producer for Green Book, Octavia Spencer. As she's African American, I'd really like to hear what her thoughts are.
Just as an aside, I left the movie feeling very sad...because it was a reminder of how bad things were in 1962. And after reading the various articles & opinion pieces on the movie, I feel just as sad.
47
Maybe there are some of us who would prefer a movie that gives us hope, rather than leaves us full of bleakness and despair. "Green Book" was a hopeful movie. It wasn't Dr. Shirley's story; it was never intended to be. It was Tony Vallelonga's story (his son co-wrote the screenplay, after all): the story of a bigoted white guy who, probably for the first time in his life (and only because of his desperate financial situation), must spend two months, all day, every day, with an African-American, and the effect this eye-opening experience has on him.
If the events we witness are not especially meaningful from an African-American perspective, it's fairly clear they were quite an education for Vallelonga. We never learn whether this experience caused Vallelonga to undergo a lasting transformation (other than being told that "Tony Lip and Dr. Shirley would remain lifelong friends until their deaths within months of each other in 2013"), but that's where the hope comes in.
Some criticize "Green Book" as a "white savior" movie. I disagree. Tony doesn't save Dr. Shirley. Dr. Shirley saves Tony. Even in those scenes where Tony comes to Dr. Shirley's physical rescue, we sense that Tony isn't doing these things only because it's his job; he's also doing them because he's not the same guy he was when the journey began.
117
@Julia Gershon
Very astute comments. Clearly, Octavia Spencer felt it was a story worthy of bringing to attention.
20
@Julia Gershon
Yes, ditto excellent points. Viggo was great in this role. And M Ali too.
9
@Julia Gershon
Great comments. And the movie was introduced by John Lewis who was one the black leaders in that period.
10
I think the Oscars made great TV, especially for my girlfriend. She loved it. I get tired of the long “thank yous”. I saw all the movies. Olivia Colman’s performance was outstanding in a so so movie. Glenn Close was good, but not great. Colman put on 35 pounds for the role and she was very convincing. Green Book was good, but not that good. Actually, the most eye opening thing about Green Book for me was that African Americans had to use a guide to stay in accepting Hotels. I didn’t know. How awful! Roma was to me the best overall film. It was like watching scenes from real life without thinking that this is a film. It was raw and straight to the point of how life is for poor hard working household workers. Overall, the films this year were more than entertaining. They dealt with issues we deal with on a day to day basis - racism, poverty, greed, and power. Bravo for helping to enlighten and educate audiences. It makes us think, and maybe collective thought will make a positive difference in the world.
12
"Actually, the most eye opening thing about Green Book for me was that African Americans had to use a guide to stay in accepting Hotels. I didn’t know."
I didn't know, either. Nor had I ever heard of Dr. Shirley before this movie. For that matter, i had never heard of the women in "Hidden Figures" either. I had no idea of the grinding daily humiliations these individuals had to endure, or their jaw-dropping achievements.
Such movies teach while they entertain. They are like parables whose lessons continue long after the story's over. I don't know if GB "deserved" to win, but it deserves more respect than media critics are giving it.
54
The Golden Globes always seem to make better choices.
But it’s all subjective anyway.
5
Gwyneth Paltrow has an Oscar but Glenn Close doesn’t. Need one say anything more about the Academy and the value of these prizes?
Frankly, these award ceremonies are cringeworthy.... I watched the True Detective finale instead.
26
@Quantummess Paltrow is a legacy pick.
1
@Quantummess
Sidney Lumet never won an Oscar either.
Why should anyone, outside of the participants, care about who wins an award? And why all the vitriol directed at other people's creations? If you don't like a movie (or a book, or a play, etc) make or write your own; become a participant, instead of potificating about other people's creative efforts. The comments say (much) more about the posters than they do about the pictures.
3
I watch movies to enjoy myself, not to have to "think" and not to make any kind of political statement. I also cycle for the same reason, hike for the same reason, ballroom dance for the same reason, play ping pong for the same reason, and do all of those things with my awesome wife for the same reason (well, I love her too, so there is that).
Some people take everything so seriously. I don't care about awards, about gender of the director, about race, about sexual orientation, or any of that when I watch a movie. I just ask myself "was it an enjoyable two hours?"
14
The Oscars have gotten it wrong for a long time. Look at this list:
1948: Hamlet over The Treasure of the Sierra Madre
1952: Greatest Show on Earth over High Noon
1956: Around the World in 80 Days over The Searchers
1979: Kramer vs. Kramer over Apocalypse Now
1990: Dances with Wolves over Goodfellas
1996: The English Patient over Fargo
1999: American Beauty over The Matrix
Ughh. I could go on, but I can't, really. The problem is that in the last 20 years, I can't find a better movie to the one that won because the great movies are now on television. To listen to "critics" pontificate on how the Oscars are getting worse is laughable. The problem is not the Oscars. The problem is that the 2-hour format is losing out to all the talent flooding into TV where they can expand on their characters and story to create great cinema. Here are my favorite movies of the last 20-30 years:
Mad Men
The Americans
Sopranos
The Wire
Prime Suspect
Bodyguard
Extras
6
It is very fashionable to think that a movie about psychopaths (Goodfellas) deserved the award over Dances with Wolves, which was a beautifully filmed movie about the final years of a proud people. In the past almost 30 years I have watched Goodfellas once, and Dances every other year.
16
@Dan I also love watching Dances With Wolves (I especially like the score by John Barry), but over time, even I must admit that the movie is not in the same league as Goodfellas in so many categories. And time helps build the case for the better movies. The point is we can disagree over particular movies, but overall, the Oscars have done a poor job of representing the best of the best. (As for showing a positive portrayal of Native Americans, time has also not been good in this respect. The documentary, Reel Injun, shines a light on the shortcomings of this film for the Native American community.)
6
@Eric While I find a lot to agree with in your dichotomies, several just come down to a matter of taste at a particular time of viewing. We don't screen (was it Olivier's?) Hamlet anymore because, well, movie buffs aren't into non-flashy, black and white Shakespeare. We no longer listen much to classical music either, but that doesn't mean there weren't two great contenders in 1948. I agree with Dan about Dances with Wolves v, Goodfellas. The latter does cynical noir well, I idly watch it when it's on tv, it entertains but doesn't enrich. Say, in the way Spike Lee's crime foray, Inside Man does.
As far as your list of TV series, no one ever seems to mention the first few seasons of Boardwalk Empire. But maybe my taste was too pedestrian there
1
Green Book wins and unsurprisingly out trots a lineup of wealthy middle aged white men to bluster at the mic about love and tolerance. What would be refreshing? Actually seeing secure and self-aware movie execs who had the empathy and generosity to let executive producer Octavia Spencer have first go at the mic and share her triumph. To me, seeing Spencer and Ali on the sidelines was an insidiously depressing close to a broadcast I thought was heading in the right direction.
25
@Evan
Man! you were really looking for anything to get mad about weren't you? Glad you found something!
“That it took the academy this long to formally honor him speaks volumes about this organization.”
Unclear what the writer has in mind. Cheap innuendo.
5
I don’t understand why critics call Green Book a white savior movie. I thought it was the opposite. Also it was largely a true story. On the other hand Love Story was a remake of a remake or a remake. (Love Story 4). I think sometimes people just want to leave feeling good, and hopeful.
11
This year's politically correct Oscar's succeeded in dampening what could have been a much greater uproarious aftermath than what spilled over into an otherwise boring Monday.
1
I'm not going to take any Best Picture winner seriously until every Academy member living personally apologizes for the worst pick of all time:
Its not Green Book.
Its not even Crash.
Its that horrible insipid tearjerker, Forest Gump
37
@bobw over Pulp Fiction, no less! Aaargh!
6
@bobw
Wrongo, bobw--Crash may be one of the 10 worst movies ever, and is surely in a (no)class by itself in Oscar winners.
5
@bobw Shape of Water had no business winning last year. Not a great movie, and not Best Picture worthy.
2
This debate between Green Book and Roma may say a lot about the Academy, but it also says a lot about movie critics, who at times fail to see the story-telling forest for the unconventional-innovative-politically-approved trees.
Roma was beautifully photographed, finely acted and dedicated to a little-examined subject matter. And it was in black and white, which strangely seems to have become an automatic emblem of artistry lately. But it lacked what used to be essential to a great movie: a cohesive, compelling narrative. It was a slice of life, intriguing in its own way, but not a story. As an academic friend of mine said, it was a fascinating piece of ethnography. A fictional documentary, you might say. But not a story. Movie goers, even sophisticated ones, generally want narrative; critics, I guess, not so much.
As for Green Book, it's a very good, not a great movie, and it may not have deserved to win best picture. But it told a story - a narrative that twisted and turned, had three acts and came to a satisfying ending - that kept most of us glued to the screen, invested in the characters. It didn't depict all the horrors of the Jim Crow era, but certainly gave us a bitter taste of them, and spoke to the potential for racial reconciliation.
There have been great movies recently that have tackled racism with a sharper edge. But, once in a while, the ticket-buying audience does like to leave feeling good. Critics, it seems, view that as a sign of poor taste.
60
@Tom Just because Roma didn't bash you in the head with "story" elements doesn't mean it did not tell a story.
Cleo, the maid was the lead- it was her story of being domestic worker for a family whose father leaves the family for another woman. And how Cleo, and the wife, Sofía, survive. Did you miss this?
Certainly not a "save the earth/EXPLOSIONS" superhero "story," but a story nonetheless. A story about women.
And this guy writing watched it twice in a weekend, moved to tears both times.
18
@profwilliams Sure, everything is a story of a sort. A movie about my walking to the corner store to buy milk would tell a story. But imagine if Cuaron had spent a month longer on his script, crafted a real tale, a narrative arc that bound together his interesting characters and beautiful imagery. (The three-act structure has lasted for centuries for a reason!) Might have been a masterpiece, not just a good art-house movie.
1
Green Book? Offensive and insulting in so many ways: the writing, the stereotypes, the simplicity, the mythical tropes, the predictability, the unoriginality. "Banal" is what it is, especially given the competition and the sophistication of today's viewing audience. After nearly 15 minutes of watching the film, I nearly walked out. I felt patronized and, maybe, eleven years old.
13
1. The assumptions in this discussion seem off. There is no way to know if Green Book won by 1 vote or many more. The discussion further omits the possibility split voting, especially with 8 movies in the category.
2. Personally I did not see Green Book as a “ buddy” or “white savior” story - I saw it as a story of the injustices of the time, and an incredible talent, Don Shirley, who I knew nothing about.
I enjoyed the movie but agree was not “best picture.”
3. Not particularly impressed with Roma.
4. the NY Times critics discussion seems rather condescending to views other than their own. Not a useful approach IMO.
51
The oscars are a total sham and have nothing to do with quality cinema. It's a politically correct dog and pony show that does not do anything to highlight good art. It serves only as a platform for sanctimonious hacks to pander and virtue signal.
13
@Gary What "quality cinema" was missing from last night's proceedings?
4
Guys, get a grip on "Green Book." Is it really such a bad thing - so retro! - to make an engaging, entertaining movie that touches people on the subject of white racism in America in the 1950s? That (thanks to Viggo Mortensen's great performance) shows a bigot capable of coming to a sense of fellow-feeling with an African-American after witnessing how badly he's treated in the Jim Crow South? That (thanks to Mahlershala Ali's great performance) shows a gifted black man rising above ugly prejudice not with his fists but with unshakeable dignity? That doesn't present itself as any kind of statement about racial "progress," but simply tells a personal, anecdotal story with wit and charm? Sure, it's not a work of art like "Moonlight," but I'm pretty certain it's made more people think humanely about our racial struggles than
Spike Lee's latest didactic piece of raucous outrage.
73
@Charles Michener Thank you. Well said. Just one thing to add: Dr. Shirley saved Tony, not the reverse.
13
@On the coast
which makes it a "magical negro" film, which is just as cliche-ridden and false to lived experience as a "white savior" movie- either way, the tropes center the arc of the white characters over the the arc of the black characters -
4
@Anthony If it really happened, which it did, how can it be false?
2
Seems everybody has a different idea of what "Best" means or should be.
8
I haven't seen Green Book - should I????
@DesertFlowerLV We watched it as a family last night. Honestly, we all enjoyed it very much. I won't get into whether it should have won Best Picture...but I can tell you it made my teenager put his phone away for two hours...and THAT is a triumph!
22
Though the NYT's critics seem shy of saying it, this was likely the last Academy Awards to be viewed by most Americans. Oscar night as a shared national experience and cultural celebration is over. Now it's just another media show and political rally.
7
What made me never want to watch the awards again was Best Picture for Silence of the Lambs. I can't get that. It was a sickening film; what was its purpose? Although perhaps critics are looking for somethings that shocks, shows the ugliness of humanity, and sickens.
7
I have numerous friends in the Academy and I attend screenings at the Academy dozens of times a year. Green Book won because the Academy members loved it as a movie. They came out in full force to see it, and they gave it a standing ovation when it was over. (And for the record, they also filled every seat for Spike's film). It's repulsive to me that the Oscars is expected to conform to identity politics rather than simply reward great art. I'm glad the Academy selected a film they truly liked rather than one that conformed to the politics of the day.
102
@Chris Thank you for this insight. I’m so tired of hearing it was a “white savior” film. Dr. Shirley saved Tony, not the reverse. I plan to see Green Book again in the coming days.
9
I'm with Morris, Scott and Dargis here. You can easily see from most of the comments here that people who liked Green Book are very defensive about it. They don't want to read the detailed reasons about why there is controversy about it, and discover anything that might reflect on themselves.
12
No one likes to be encouraged to hate themselves. But if being woke means that, we are in for four more years of Donald Trump (and I think we are).
4
@Petaltown
Nah, don't think so. People who liked Green Book aren't defensive here. They're just saying they liked the movie for the reasons they liked it.
I liked it. My spouse liked it.
We don't expect a movie to show every possible side of every possible story. We don't expect a movie to show only the story and characters WE want and the way WE see the world.
Most of the people who criticize Green Book can't get over their own anger and resentments.
14
@Petaltown
I liked Green Book and I wasn't defensive about it. I know that the portrayal of Tony and Dr. Shirley wasn't "true" but it was a movie, based on their lives, which allows for fiction, and wasn't pretending to be a documentary.
While I was familiar with Dr. Shirley's music I was saddened that he couldn't have the international classical music career for which he had the talent. Most of us didn't know about the Green Book, so in that respect the film had an educational aspect to it as well.
1
I think Blackkklansman should have won. I question how the Academy selects winners. Roma was horrid. I couldn't go beyond 15 minutes before turning it off. And, Rami Malek overacted his role. Those prosthetic teeth were not necessary. His own teeth protrude almost as much as Freddy Mercury's. All-in-all, I am glad I was able to Mute most of the Speeches and miss the Commercials.
2
@Philip W
Freddy Mercury was a very flamboyant person in case you didn't know. Malek was wonderful.
For all the wonderful nod to diversity, I couldn't help but wonder, through the AA evening, how Hollywood's/America's films, compare unfavorably with those coming from abroad these days, filled with nuance, irony and sophisticated plotting (and not just those nominated for foreign picture). Special effects have replaced plot and strident political rectitude, artistry. I'm surprised, by the way, that the critics didn't comment on the AA opening, "We are the champions of the world," the whole auditorium sung.
3
I'm glad the "awards season" is over. With every major release I saw I was disappointed it wasn't "the one." All good, appreciated how well done they were, but none of them got me excited. I didn't see "Green Book" until just a few weeks ago, dismissining it as a "Driving Miss Daisy" copy.
When I finally went to see "Green Book," I was surprised, because it was much more than DMD. And for those who have to complain about something, no one objected to Mahershala Ali being slotted in the supporting category. This "cheat" is done with great regularity over the las 20 years, so I guess no one says anything anymore. I'm sure Richard E Grant has an opinion about it.
9
@Scott Agreed! Of course Ali should have been nominated for best actor. He and Viggo were both leads. (And both were great.) And Richard E. Grant should have won for Supporting Actor.
They did that to Viola Davis two years ago when they nominated her for supporting actress instead of lead actress for Fences when she was absolutely the female lead. That deprived her of winning Best Actress in a Lead Role and left the door open for Emma Stone to win Best Actress for La La Land, which she didn’t deserve.
@Pam
Viola Davis should have won over Streep that year. Davis was exceptional in her role while Streep did another accent.
Every year after the Oscars it's always the same thing, people upset about what won which award, it's subjective, not like winning a marathon by being the first to cross the finish line. Get over it, if you study the list of "Best Picture" winners over the past decades you will see many undeserving ones, embarrassingly so. It's even more absurd if you check the list of the nominated films that they won over or never even got a nomination. The very idea that there is a "Best" anything of the year is ridiculous to start with, this is simply an industry event, winning an Oscar generally means additional revenue for the movie, as well as added prestige along with an increased salary for the individuals who receive one. The idea that one could ever accurately identify and single out them from a group of peers working at the top of their game is specious at best. Today every aspect of the film business is under extreme scrutiny, with the weekend grosses, projected earnings, marketing all being discussed in the mainstream media when once this information was relegated to only The Hollywood Reporter or Variety. How much money a film has made on opening weekend has become more important than if it's any good and is seen as a seal of approval by the public that it must be, why anything at just another awards show is taken seriously even for a moment is beyond me.
6
Critics' responses to the Oscars are always amusing.
Take a look at the political map of America! Half the country doesn't agree with you about basically anything. And some of those people are Academy voters: less than the population at large, but certainly some.
2
I am poor, afraid of the local movie houses, depend on public transit, old, and have prostate problems. I have not attended a move since the one about the FBI Russian spy. I do not subscribe to cable, Netflix, or other sources. I do not own a modern television set and I no longer have a DVD player easy to connect. In short, I am not in the know. I wish I were.
I do see some pictures on cable when I visit my friends' house to set with their husky. The movies on the old cable movie channels are ancient and endless repeated. I don't last thourgh most of them.
I was in my youth a great fan of European modern films though I saw many of them not during the high sixties but later during the 70s when I lived in Oregon and had fine access to several art movie houses and then later in New Orleans.
I have not seen, of course, any of the movies in play for the Oscar. I stopped watching the program decades ago.
I think I will like Roma when I finally get to see it though I would I could see it at a move house. I want to see "Wife".
My favorite "new" stars are Olivia Williams. I cannot stand Bradley what's his face. I don't remember why I dislike him. I adore Lady Gaga. I like Spike Lee, in part, because of his link to Atlanta.
I live in Louisiana. Homas House is a cliche. It really has been done and redone. New Orleans has been done and redone. Enough. It was out of date when the Cohen brothers set that New Jersey movie there.
10
@Ted Morgan
I hope you get to see Roma and The Wife. You might like Favourite and BlackKKlansman too.
I wish there were a way I could treat you to these films!
11
@Ted Morgan
Just love this post!
6
Good grief, this is an awards show. It’s a competition. It’s box office and pretty frocks. This isn’t the Nobel prize or, I don’t know, CNN’s heroes awards. It’s entertainment. It’s Hollywood, the land of make believe. Can make believe touch lives and change the world? Quite possibly. But this is a pageant about ultimately making money and building careers.
It was thrilling to see so much diversity on stage and in the nominees. Better than the sea of old white guys I grew up with. And it’s great that films are being made by so many different artists and storytellers. That’s a plus.
But does Spike Lee deserve an Oscar because he’s been around so long? No. If he makes a truly great film? Then yes. Doesn’t merit play a part in this beauty contest?
It’s all quite possible that the field for best film was so oddly divided that Green Book squeaked through. Great film. No. Good intentions. Sure. It’s s movie. There’s always next year...
7
@Desert Rat
Spike shoulda won for Malcom X. Period.
@Desert Rat: As with all these"based on a true story" movies, the screenplay writer/editors all seem to have a "creative freedom or interpretation" of actual events to make them more appealing or dramatic. They need to flow, fill the gaps in time, etc. At least the characters were real people! Sometimes the true story can be boring.....
2
I can’t judge Green Book fully because I haven’t seen it. However, the criticisms that I have read said it was written by a white writer who didn’t research fully Don Shirley’s perspective. Shirley’s brother called out some of Shirley’s alleged “biographical facts” the writer portrayed. This makes me think that it is another example of whitesplaining to make whites feel good.
There was also a lost opportunity for more Asian male representation. Jason Momoa is a start but Henry Golding should have also presented some award as his female Crazy Rich Asians co-stars were given opportunities to do. Did we prevent Samuel L. Jackson from presenting because Chadwick Boseman had presented?
7
Cautiously... a new category for Oscars 2020? Best Cinematic Moment. Ally finally, reluctantly, magnificently performing an epically spine-tingling cathartic Shallow for the ages would have won hands-down in 2019.
9
@Matt Anderson This type of award is becoming common in other awards ceremonies around the world. Best Sporting Moment of the Year, for example, in the UK.
1
One always has to receive Oscar winners with some measure of introspection. The selection and voting process is a very human one, one that is fraught with shortcomings. (I do not think that I every recovered from "Shakespeare In Love.")
Green Book was a decent picture. I did not like Roma starting with the car running over the dog poop. If that was art, I guess I will never quite get it. It was just too dark and sad for my tastes.
I wish that the academy would release the vote tallies. That way we could see how some of the dark horses sometimes become winners. My guess is that in categories with two strong contenders, a weaker nominee is selected because votes have been divided. And we could see how really close the vote was.
In any event, they are just movies, enjoyable as they are. And there is always next year.
I thought Green Book was a perfectly decent & watchable movie, and Viggo was tremendous, but it was generally predictable, formulaic, and safe. Therefore not Best Picture worthy. I happen to think BlacKkklansman, Can You Ever Forgive Me, and the Favourite were better & more interesting movies overall. But frankly I'm not surprised as Green Book seems like a classic Academy choice...unfortunately!
5
That Bradley Cooper and his achievement - A Star is Born - did not receive even one Oscar (other than Lady Gaga's incomparable singing/writing talents) is a disgrace.
"A Star is Born" is what "movies" is all about.
What other person - male or female, white or black, old or young, American or foreign - has ever given film goers such enjoyment and entertainment in just over two hours?
Especially today, when race and reconciliation impedes on romance, human relationships, and dreams.
8
If Green Book hadn't won, these "critics" would have found something else to whine about. The Oscars have become the Super Bowl of award shows, and that's not a good thing. Art isn't a contest, and this ceremony turns several amazing collective artistic events into a trivia contest. I think everyone who won deserved it. I also think everyone nominated deserved to win as well. However, this award show isn't about art or its impact on society. It's about money and sales. I find the voting to be based on lazy viewers filling out ballots. Why? Because they get videos of the selections to watch at home. If they are going to judge a cinematic experience, then see the movie in a theater, and not on a sofa. Look, with all the expense, advertising, and buildup to the show, the fact is a week from now nobody will even remember what happened beyond losing some sleep. Having one movie as the single winner is a dubious accomplishment at best. It's all short term gut reaction. If you really want the winners, wait five or ten years and see what films sustain their artistic impact. Until then, give all the nominees Oscars because they were all the best for this past year. Then, ten years from now, see who is remembered, who has influence on other films, and who has an impact on the lives of the viewers. That film, or even those films, will be the true winners.
8
@Michael Kennedy, also keep in mind the carefully planned capaigns to garner attention and awards. Anyone who believes that artistic merit decides who wins probably also still believes in Santa Claus and the tooth fairy.
"If Beale Street Could Talk" was a moving film that deserved best picture. A true American story told from the viewpoint of a young woman deeply in love, with a loving, supportive family. She had to deal with the cruelty of racism without a feel-good ending.
6
@landless I couldn't agree more. And, it was all Black Panther was chocked up to be; a very beautiful homage to the great James Baldwin, depicting the black experience by a largely black artistic team
3
@landless I disagree. Beale Street was painfully slow to the point where I felt like the director was padding the movie to make it longer. Not best picture in any way.
As someone in the movie business for many years, I agree that maybe Green Book was not the best movie. But I don't get why some people felt it wasn't "honest" or bleak enough about racism. The movie Spike would liked to have seen made would not have been seen by most Americans. Because of its tone many more Americans will see Green Book and see racism on screen. Is it the entire, bitter truth? No. But it's going to reach a lot more "average" white people because of how it portrayed its subject. It's not unlike when Life Is Beautiful was ridiculed for "lightening" the holocaust. Did anyone really think that was a comedy? It showed that horrible episode of history in a different way, through the love and protection of a father for his son. A movie is first a story, not a lecture. Good film makers find a way to make the medicine taste better, but they still deliver it.
38
Last night was a good roadtrip for diversity. Sadly, it ended with a "Crash"
6
Talk about Driving Miss Daisy redux, insipid tale of Green Book beating out Spike Lee's BlackkkKlansman. I can only think that the fault lies in proportional representation voting, which didn't give enough 1st place votes to Spike Lee or to Roma or The Favourite or even A Star Is Born, allowing a low 1st place count Green Book to advance with a slew of 2nd place votes. The math may be solid, but it doesn't feel right.
4
@Nancy Lederman
Green Book didn't "beat out" BlackkKlansman; it "beat out" every movie that was nominated for best picture. The math works out just fine. Maybe the math doesn't support political correctness but it does but it represents the voters choice.
18
One critic concedes that "Roma" actually needs to be seen on the big screen, yet it was made by a company that agrees to only a minimal theatrical release before makinf the film widely available to small screen subscribers.
The film won three Oscars- no need to cry for "Roma"
11
Since when did Brokeback Mountain become a great movie? It was interesting. Pretty good. Not great.
Spike Lee is like any other pampered Hollywood star--white, black or Hispanic. He is conceited, rude, and infantile. He is also very talented and so will be tolerated for his boorish behavior.
30
@richard Funny how tastes differ, but I regard "Brokeback Mountain" as one of the best American films of the past 20 years, maybe of all time. And to me, "Roma" is truly a great work of art, though it does not appeal to everyone. The film's slow pace served to highlight and emphasize four intensely dramatic scenes. That is cinematic genius.
7
Maybe not of all time, but an excellent film. Don’t get carried away.
1
@richard
In my opinion, "Brokeback Mountain" was a groundbreaking movie in terms of its depiction of love between two apparently non-gay, macho men. But it wasn't just socially relevant. It featured extraordinary performances by the two male and two female leads, and it devastated audiences. The director, Ang Lee, won the well-deserved Best Director Oscar for that film! It should have won the Oscar because it WAS a great movie, the best of the year. "Crash" was handed the Oscar because the Academy was too cowardly to give the Best Picture award to a passionate, tragic love story between two cowboys.
5
A more important and pertinent issue to NY Times readers is not what "Green Book" winning Best Picture victory indicates about the Motion Picture Academy, as your reviewer hypothesizes, but rather what its winning means about the NY Times movie reviewers, who have persistently bashed "Green Book" while exulting over the likes of, say, "First Reformed," one film to my experience having excellent "word of mouth" and the other having awful reactions and the low box office to go with it.
This is because it is those opinions of Times reviewers that have greater impact upon readers (and subscribers) of this newspaper than does the collective opinion of the Academy. Critics on a major metropolitan newspaper should remember their obligation not only to express the view of a few (including other reviewers who seem to develop a collective group-think), but to gauge the likelihood that its readers will be engaged by a film.
Certainly, there are movies that are good commercial and bad commercial, as well as good arty and bad arty, and these differences need to be detailed in a review that readers can understand. A simple-minded comparison of "Green Book" with the movie "Crash" from several years ago is not helpful or particularly interesting. And when public polling on how moviegoers like a particular movie is so drastically different than what the reviewers have propounded, it's important that the Times, not the Academy, think again about what it is offering.
23
@GED What immediately strikes me as I read somewhat hostile comment is that you are so wrong. I want a reviewer, a critic, who is going to analyze the film, book. or art based on its merits & intentions & its place in the great swim of traditions. I learn a lot from those reviewers who often see things that I lack the training or experience to see. This is not to say that I must agree with them; I often don't. (For example, I would have nominated First Reformed for Best Picture and Best Actor.). And let me count the times I've disagreed with the Academy over its awards.
Popular films aren't always the best films & too often we like films that are simply crowdpleasing & easy to understand or profitable. Heck, I adore the Bourne Ultimatum--no nominations there. When critics begin writing reviews based on "public polling" is when criticism dies & marketing begins. A film's reception in the marketplace is for another column, not for a criticism.
6
@macktan I wasn't half as hostile to these reviewers as they were to the Academy, was I? I didn't "discern" any sociological misbehavior, I read the reviews--as did everyone else who pays to subscribe to this newspaper. If you liked "First Reformed," know that not too many did, witness its $3.8m box office despite a virtual political campaign by this newspaper and others to push it. It's called "bad word of mouth." Oh, and also, what they wrote about it was entirely misguided in terms of the historical film references exploited by Schrader to make the film seem more profound than it was when it wasn't.
4
@GED. Your argument features a logical fallacy--an appeal to popularity:
Using the popularity of a premise or proposition as evidence for its truthfulness. This is a fallacy which is very difficult to spot because our “common sense” tells us that if something is popular, it must be good/true/valid, but this is not so, especially in a society where clever marketing, social and political weight, and money can buy popularity.
I don't care if only 1 person saw First Reformed, that doesn't make it a bad film. On the other hand, the most Popular, profitable film--Black Panther--didn't win Best Picture, nor did Straiight Outta Compton the year before.
You want a popular film category, which the Academy considered, then shelved. There are many films I enjoy that don't get awards. In fact, most of the films I own because I watch them repeatedly are not Award Winners.
Again, my main point is that reviewers are not there to endorse popular films. They are critics of the art & must make their arguments on the professional merits of filmmaking. I often disagree with them, but I would hate for them to disregard the standards of their profession.
Allowing non-majority/plurality winners in an 8 or 9-way contest is always going to produce unusual and unexpected results. One solution would be a run-off vote, but that seems unwieldy, another would be to have voters select a second and third choice and count those votes until a majority winner is selected.
4
@Gioco
That's the way the Academy calculates votes for Best Picture.
4
Manohla Dargis is a good writer but I find her reviews unreadable at this point. Every review can be summed up as does this movie have the correct (enlightened) view on race and gender? If so, it's good. If not, it's terrible.
I am not saying that race and gender aren't important but does it always have to be the most important thing? It's another offshoot of tribal politics/identity. I can't accept, interact with, or enjoy anything that doesn't fit within my tribes view of how the world needs to be.
143
@Ben Yes, I feel the same. It's become pretty knee-jerk.
17
I watched Roma on my TV and enjoyed the cinematography and the artistry of the film. However, the movie left a bad taste for me because I felt it treated the supposed main character of Cleo as a cipher. We have very little sense of her as a human being, only as she services the family. It is a film of memory, and a child's memory at that, but the narrative does have glimpses of Cleo outside the family. Cuaron's brief shout-out to domestic workers last night suggested to me that he has dismissed this criticism. He really missed an opportunity to shine a spotlight on the complicated lives and loyalties of the Cleos of the world.
19
@stpauley
No. Cuaron made a beautiful and emotional film about childhood memory, and as a result, said much more about Cleo, oppression, history, colonialism, and women’s suffering by going in sideways.
A revelatory film.
7
I heard the working title for the script was: "Driving Mr Daisy.".
10
It seems Oscar voters are as dimwitted as Trump voters. That a film as simple-minded and cliched as Green Book should beat out the immensely entertaining and creative The Favourite or the masterful and truly moving BlackkkKlansman is so disappointing. I still can't believe that Spike Lee has not yet been rewarded as a director. He showed a lot of class, wit and patience last night.
19
@One Nasty Woman
He tried to walk out of the theatre when he lost the best picture vote and later derided Green Book. Is that what you call "class and patience."? Hitchcock never won a best director award. Nor did many other talented directors.
17
@One Nasty Woman The Favourite became very boring after a while.....if I had to watch one more person walk down that long hallway ONE MORE TIME I would have been ejected from the theatre for screaming. The movie could easily have had 30 minutes cut off of it.
3
@One Nasty Woman
I was one of those who didn't like The Favourite very much. The acting was wonderful, the production, cinematography, costumes were beautiful. Ultimately, I didn't care that 2 women were vying for the attention of the Queen. In fact, I went to the film because it got so many wonderful reviews, including my fave from the Wall Street Journal, Joe Morgenstern. I really liked Green Book (I was familiar with Dr. Shirley's music and it saddened me that he was not able to pursue the international classical music career that he was destined for and Viggo Mortensen and Mahersh(whatever) Ali gave pitch-perfect performances. I also loved Black Panther, and Spike Lee finally got his long-overdue Director Oscar. The Oscar voters aren't dimwitted, but they have often given the Best picture Oscar to a film that was not the best picture, and I think that was true for Green Book.
I watched Roma at home, didn't get up for snacks, loved every minute of it and was rooting for it. Maybe it is better on the big screen, probably so, but if you just pay attention. I heard the reviewers on NPR who "just didn't get it." To each his own I guess, but secretly I don't understand how they got to earn their livings watching great films. I'll do it if they like.
27
Roma didn't seem to invest much in itself. It was on Netflix before most of us had a chance to find it in theaters . Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon was a film I was thrilled by on a big screen and Roma could have been the same but if was never given the chance.
4
When Roma lost best picture two words came to mind: Netflix, of course, and Spanish. The reality of a non English language film winning best picture remain a bridge too far, despite the growing internationalization of the list of nominees. But like Cuarón subtly noted, "foreign" film culture has and continues to speak to us all.
12
@Kate Vernon Did you forget that the foreign, silent, black and white film The Artist won Best Picture not long ago? That was a bridge as far as Roma, or at least very close.
1
My husband and I saw Green Book six weeks after it was released. It was 11:30 AM and the theater was 70% full. Never been to a movie at that time of the day when the theater was that full. It was a wonderful movie, and I can only speculate that “word-of-mouth” publicity accounted for the great attendance. This was in December of last year. This movie is STILL showing at the same theater! The right movie won Best Picture.
56
I would love to see the numbers for how many academy members watch any of the movies in the theaters, they all get screeners and gift bags and presents. Once the people in the academy start seeing some of that Netflix money they'll start giving Netflix awards (and not just Oscar campaign and ad money, real receipts) or, more likely, to something they establish.
Also Green Book < BlackkKlansman < Black Panther < Sorry to Bother You
5
@OY
I like one aspect of what @OY implicitly recognnizes with his highest rating for Sorry To Bother You. It has something that Black KkKlansman has less of: class-consciousness. Otoh, BlacKkKsman has two working-class guys hanging tough to fight a society-destroying evil. Btw, Adam Driver's nomination for Best Supporting Actor was merited, in part by his pointing out that the KKK was having rallies in and around Mishawaka Indiana less than 20 years ago:
https://www.southbendtribune.com/news/local/yes-there-were-plenty-of-kkk-rallies-when-adam-driver/article_ddeafc15-d21f-5cce-beff-6e48f66a1e00.html
1
My wife and I watched Bohemiam Rhapsody, the Green Book, and Roma. All great movies but the Green book deserved best picture. These movies are a reminder of the discrimination that gays, blacks, and poor hispanics faced and why we should be better than that.
19
Ms Dargis writes “The industry is often and sometimes laughably called liberal”. Ms Dargis, did you watch the same broadcast as everyone else, laden with liberal politics? Do you not understand that America - not NYC, but AMERICA - watches this show and says ‘I’m sick of being preached to by liberals, and I’m voting for Trump again’ ?? (something I am dreading, but he will win again in 2020, in part to PC backlash)
The sad reality is that this fake overly righteous political correctness, which I don’t doubt comes from a good place in people, will send many looking for even a crumb of truth, anywhere they can, just to have some sliver of sincerity, something, anything, and sadly Trump will win again.
You also state “His hiring practices represent the kind of real activism that few other moviemakers embrace, as the parade of men thanking their wives last night continues to affirm. “
Your statements reek of anti-male sentiment. Perhaps “The wives that were thanked by their husbands” love being wives, staying at home while their husbands make millions? Perhaps that’s not your place to judge?
Why not focus on the success of Regina King, or Hannah Beachler, or Mahershala Ali or Ruth Carter, or Peter Ramsey, or Spike Lee?? Guess who voted for those great black artists? White people, including white men.
(who are a majority of the US, but were barely visible on this Oscars)
The more you feed your PC agenda, the more people will resent it.
106
@Paul
Please examine the assumption underlying this sentence: "Perhaps “The wives that were thanked by their husbands” love being wives, staying at home while their husbands make millions?" Not all wives, who love being wives, "stay at home" regardless of the amount of money their husbands make. If a woman who won thanked her husband, would you assume he "stayed at home"? I doubt it. Such thoughtless statements undermine your valid points.
21
@Paul You are so perfectly right here. Thank you!
8
@Hmmm
I'll bet not a one of those wives stays at home. They are probably incredibly hard at creative work, but still fight harder and for equal pay. Can you detect "anti-male sentiment" from my statement? You'd be wrong. I think we are just as hard on men in other ways. Your own biases show in your assumptions.
9
I haven't watched the Oscars in years. However, I think there is still great value in the awards and the show. They both reflect who we are as a nation, the bitter and the sweet. In particular, I think the awards and the recognition that comes with them give filmmakers something at which to aim: to tell a story that can move us and move us to action, and not scare us so much that we'll fully turn away.
3
How interesting that few Oldish H'wood, super stars or next gen comers were present at this Oscar's. No Nicholson, Beatty, Streep, Washington, Clooney, Lawrence, Hedges, Chalamet, et al.
Julia Roberts was an odd choice for the top presenting role.
Bette Midler brought the only nostalgic touch, despite the glee for Queen intro.
Gay + impersonation always swayed Academy voters. Bohemian Rhapsody sort of tried to be character driven, but we never quite understood how Mercury moved from one phase to the next. Like VICE, it was psychologically incomplete.
ROMA was usually disdained by folks who watched it on their computers & TV. It was an engulfing experience, paradoxically betrayed by the Netflix release.
11
@Sara, I disagree regarding "Roma." Yes, it is visually an epic 21:9 aspect ratio scale, but it is such an intimate, idiosyncratic movie that I loved experiencing it alone... on my large, curved 21:9 computer screen, where I can feel free to express shock and even shed a few tears.
3
@Ed, Julia Roberts is one of those overrated actors who has, for whatever reasons, amassed a lot of star power. I agree with your comment about her being an odd choice for best movie presentation, but she's probably viewed as a good "get" for the Academy.
2
Sara,
Not sure what you mean by “gay impersonation” when Brokeback Mountain lost to the much less deserving Crash. Bohemian Rhapsody gave Freddie Mercury’s homosexuality a shallow treatment. The fact that Malek is Egyptian (diversity points!) and the movie (and real life entertainer) wildly popular had at least as much to do with that win. I mean, Lee Israel was a lesbian, but McCarthy went home empty-handed. Aside from Moonlight, I can’t think of any other gay Academy Award films. Tom Hanks as Gay Man Dying From AIDS in Philadelphia and Midnight Cowboy? Not exactly high-water marks for gay representation.
I go to the movies on a quest for insight, truth, transformation, education, or otherwise just plain dumb escape. Green Book gave me a roller coaster ride of joy, Blackkklansmen gave me shock, awe and magic, Bohemian Rhapsody gave me an in depth look at a master acting performance and I loved it, Roma bored me to death and I turned it off, I could not bear to watch The Favourite because of the mean roles portrayed. If Beale Street could Talk enlightened me, Black Panther was wonderful, and I loved the Oscar awards with no host. thank you everyone and goodnight!
69
@Juliana James, do yourself a favor and finish "Roma." I too was about to abandon ship around the 1 hour mark, but it slowly, eventually enters your psyche. Patience, grasshopper.
10
I guess I would miss it. It's one of the few nights when I will sit down and watch celebrities and their outfits. And, since most of them are on my side of the political spectrum, it can be heartening. Ignore Trump's tweet about Spike Lee's joint!
2
Please don't preach to me because I didn't love Roma. I saw it on Netflix, then a faux-deep friend told me I had to see it in the theatre to appreciate it, so I did. Still not over-impressed.
Movies can be art and they can be entertainment. The best movies excel at both. But Roma was not entertaining. At all. I don't care if it was in Spanish, Portuguese, or Swahili, it was for the stare-at-your-navel crowd, falling over themselves to see who could "adore it more". Get over yourselves.
29
@A.T.G.
Hey just because you didn't appreciate the subtle nuance of Roma doesn't mean that you need to denigrate the people that did.
25
@A.T.G.
I found ROMA to be very entertaining. All at once funny, sad, melancholy and oh so thought provoking.
AND....where did they find that DOG ! ??
8
@Jim Mc Donald, or, more importantly, what the heck are they feeding Borres?!
6
I realize critics have to criticize, but art, whether it's "high" art or "low" art, is the most subjective thing in the world. It will never be possible for everyone to agree on which art speaks to them. Also, art is not a sport or a competition. The Oscars are a remnant of the past, when Hollywood was supposed to be glamorous, and escapism was all the rage. Reality is much less glamorous, but no less interesting or inspiring. The most positive thing about the Oscars is that they draw attention to some movies that might otherwise escape notice.
13
Alfred Hitchcock, Orson Welles, Howard Hawks, and Josef von Sternberg never won an Oscar for direction Nor did Federico Fellini, Jean Renoir, or Francois Truffaut. Mr Lee is in very good company. Get over it.
116
@henri schindler
Yes, and what does that list of directors who never won say about the Academy awards?
9
So much being made about Spike Lee winning an Academy award for..... screenwriting.
Nevermind that his reputation is that of an important movie director.
No, the academy decides that he deserves a screenwriting award that he gets to share with three other writers. Now we are supposed to make pretend how grand it is that he finally got his Oscar.
Nobody is fooled.
18
@PeterW, at least the other 3 writers got Oscar statues to take home, because the way Spike Lee hogged the mic (he didn’t let any of the three he shared the award with speak), one would have thought Lee was the sole recipient of the award. Also, was it necessary for Lee to use so much foul language that the first few sentences had to be bleeped out of his speech? An example of graciousness Spike Lee is not. Some people mellow with age. Others just become bitter.
31
@Ann
Bitter? Nah, that’s just the Brooklyn talking.
2
I love his films and believe he should have won before (“Do The Right Thing” for crying out loud!), but his speech made me wince. I hope when he rewatches this he’ll do the same.
2
The question on my mind is when did it become ok to be ungracious? I'm appalled that 'pulling a Kanye' is frequent enough to become a phrase and totally accepted. Adults who display a 2 year old's temper tantrum, or those who mutter and disparage the academy and the winner really are losers in every sense.
54
The sniping at Green Book from many critics is expected but still a little sad. Movies are many things; one of the important ones is to show us examples of being our better than our worse selves. The ending sequences of Green Book did that beautifully; from the bar and piano scene to the snowstorm to the white cop helping rather than hating to the befuddlement and then acceptance of Tony Lip's family to the beautiful coda of his wife embracing Don. If Tony's family could see past the color of Don's skin, then perhaps we can to.
110
Yes, but isn’t the exact problem that films like Green Book want us to ‘look past’ the color of someone’s skin - instead of affirming it as theirs and good in its difference?
Our real, serious problem is that we have so much trouble properly looking *at* people for who they are. To think that we’re all the same is sometimes just a way to avoid getting right with the fact that, really, we’re sometimes and quite profoundly *not*.
13
@Overground. Semantics. We’re all human beings. I agree with RayU.
6
@On the coast. Thank you. Exactly. Seeing past Don's skin color is to see him as he actually is; talented, brilliant, and in need of some warmth and caring and good Italian food on Christmas Eve. Seeing past is not not seeing but seeing the whole person in all their messy humanity.
5
As the photo shows, the "Green Book" team is all white, yet it beat out Spike Lee's joint as the better race relations movie. Do wonders ever cease?
And I missed there being a host. A good host will have lots of good jokes, in the Bob Hope tradition, to make the evening bearable. That used to be the best part of the show.
What the Academy should do away with is the acceptance speeches. How much of the broadcast is wasted hearing winners rattle off names nobody else cares about? And that speech the winner read off her mobile phone? Turgid self-absorption, even by Hollywood standards. I'd like to thank the Academy for bringing back Billy Crystal.
27
@dsjump
Not the better race relations move.
The safer for you and more palatable one. Heaven forbid that you'd feel a little uncomfortable with the state of our union.
3
@dsjump Octavia Spencer and Mahershala Ali are white? Who knew?
8
@steve .....yes.....as is my hero, John Lewis.
1
If you can't enjoy Green Book, you may be just too woke.
94
@TD Exactly. All this self-righteous, hyper-sensitive crap is just that. Phony intellectuals who "see" past the warmth, the humanness, the poignancy, and the great acting to put their little "poo-poos" on it and compare it to "Crash"---a horrible comparison. Like every year at the Oscars there were many films that deserved to win. "Bohemian Rhapsody(the best)," "Vice," "Black Panther," "BlackKKlansman" to name a few. "Roma" was just a well shot movie that assuaged the guilty consciences of mostly wealthy people. (Ooo, I can just hear it,). "Green Book" was a great movie
26
The Academy promised inclusion, and last night we got the most diverse cast of winners ever. It reminds me of the Obama administration: for minorities, will this be enough? Do they want to be included in the traditional System -- whether it be acceptance in the Academy or the White House. Or do minority participants want something more -- to be part of a CHANGED System that treats all comers fairly?
So far, with affirmative action in the higher ed academies and corporate worlds, minorities have been content with inclusion minus any true change. Perhaps that will happen in Hollywood too. Spike Lee sure looked happy (at first) being included and winning his first competitive Oscar. It seemed to mean so much to him -- being accepted by the Academy, vs. just being accepted by himself and his fans knowing the value of the art he made...
2
Ms. Dargis’s and Mr. Scott’s disparagement of “Green Book’s” Oscar award exemplify the failure of critics to identify with the American public and their own personal snobbery. Moviegoers don’t analyze a movie to death—they just know whether they like it or not. Enough people (including myself) really enjoyed the movie, even if it is a bit contrived or “corny” as the critics say, because it made them feel good. Shouldn’t that count for something?
63
@Peter seremet, the day that critics become obligated to bend to the will of the unwashed masses is the day that real criticism of any kind has become extinct.
7
@Peter seremet
It feels good to have your values and assumptions catered to. But if those assumptions need examination, movies like Green Book aren't gping to help. White Americans love to believe they are good-hearted, open-minded, and deserving of their advantages. Ergo the success of movies like Green Book.
4
@George Potratz
The movie underscored for me how little has changed, and that didn't make me deserving of my advantages, it made me sad that here in NC the SOS is still going on. That was my take away.
3
Thought the Oscars were to recognize artists based upon merit- not their race, sex or whatever. Must have been naive.
92
I remember how stunned and bummed out I was when Crash won instead of Brokeback. The quote Dargis included of the producer of Crash - “Thank you to all the members of the academy for embracing our film about love and about tolerance about truth.” - is so ironic. Isn’t that precisely what Brokeback Mountain is about?
14
@AJBF Yes!! Exactly, it seems a lot of people using the comparison of Crash and greenbook, forgetting that Crash won over Brokeback Mountain, a movie no-one will ever need watch again over a genius beautifully crafted film by Ang Lee, it also has comparisons politically , but don't get me started!
12
If and when Dargis, Scott, and Morris ever do something worthwhile enough to become voting members of the Academy, they can vote for whatever film they want. Until then, they're nothing more than outsiders weighing in on a subject they're wrong about quite often. As evidence, check out the NYT 2019 Oscar predictions that were wrong on a number of counts.
40
Awards ceremonies are for people who need awarded validation to feel better about their jobs, plenty of people need this special treatment to help them forget that they are missing their entire lives while busy shinning their awards and counting their beans.
7
My impression of "A Star is Born" is that it was much more about Cooper's character (and thus Cooper himself) than about Gaga's character. Which was too bad. Plus the movie was a downer, not an upper, and it seems we aren't into downers these days, in our big-screen entertainment at least. So I dispute with Mr. Morris that "A Star is Born" lost because it's about a woman.
I would have liked to hear a mention about the great Spike Lee and why "BlackkKlansman"didn't win Best Picture, which it certainly deserved to do.
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@Amanda
Fmr. agent and NYU Film Studies grad weighing in here: Actually, A Star Is Born lost because it wasn't a very good movie. Even with several past remakes, I thought the screenplay was pretty tepid despite trying to make it current and relevant. That it got so many nominations utterly baffled me.
Same goes for Rami Malek winning. Styling, prosthetic teeth and mimicry can go a long way, but in my opinion, his performance pales in comparison to Christian Bales' Dick Cheney in Vice. Personally, I think Viggo Mortenson should've won not because I've seen Green Door (yet), but because every movie he's in is usually interesting, well-written and character-driven.
But let's face it, none of it really matters because we all like seeing glammed-up, super-rich people patting each other on the back and going home with $100,000 gift bags. We sit home commenting on clothes (Billy Porter's outfit was so outrageous and brilliant that I ALMOST forgot about Cher's outfit when she didn't get nominated for Mask!), get pep talks from Lady Gaga wearing a $30 million dollar diamond necklace and see people used to memorizing scripts trip over the simplest words on a teleprompter. Yes, we see disappointed faces, some bad behavior and women looking like they can't WAIT to get their shoes off and put a drink in their hands, but it's the one night where a soccer mom in Whoknowswheresville and a NYC-slicker like me can say, "yeah, I saw that" and have a shared experience. It's all good.
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Honestly don't see what all the fuss is about Greenbook winning Best Picture. A movie is made about loving others despite their skin ie not being racist and everyone acts like it's not good enough and just some simple feel good story,...The fact is that people keep screaming how racist we and so called "white males" are, but if that's the case why is when someone trys to show the opposite people cry foul??? Talk about hypocrisy... Critics want people to not be racist, but then don't want people to work together which is the only way to overcome racism...It is way more mature and classy to turn the other cheek and learn to look past the color etc then to keep hammering for sake of sounding culturally relevant and "politically correct" (a lesson spike lee could learn from who is nothing but a mean spirited, angry, resentful let's keep talking about something that happened 50 plus years ago....) Yes, there should not be racism and no it doesn't matter the skin color, but honestly people keep forgetting that now everyone can vote, no longer or schools or anything else separated, anyone can own a home, be CEO and most of the abuse and racism that happened was a long time ago..Yes there can still be instances of stuff but not nearly as bad as it was and if people want to heal and learn then they should also learn to stop dredging up the past, and work together like civilized human beings- if not then we are just as bad as when the kkk and everything else happened many years ago...
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Agreed@Rhoda Cormier
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"Green Book" is an enjoyable movie with some great acting from the two leads. It's based on true people and a true story. It educates and inspires. It recreates the period beautifully. I can't find anyone who didn't like, or in my case, love it, thoroughly. There's room for lots of types of movies that take on race relations. Why not just enjoy this one and admire the good people who put it together with love and faith in humanity? I look forward to seeing it again!
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@Aurore
Well said. I'm well-informed about what it takes to make a great movie, and Green Book was really well done. Was it the best crafted movie? No; that was The Favorite. Lighting, cinematography, script, overall directing and acting all superior. But Green Book won hearts. Too many critics overthink and wind up reviewing the movie they wanted to see instead of the movie they saw.
The sins of Green Book?
Didn't show enough of the way blacks were treated in 1962 (yeah, and today).
Should have made more of a statement.
Made too much of a statement.
Too "feel-good".
Too much of a fantasy for whites.
Oh yes - and it's a comedy? Puhleeze! Doc gets beat up? Impassioned speech in the rain? Can't eat where he plays? Musician explains clearly why Doc planned this trip to danger and a big cut in pay. Like life, there are genuinely funny moments. And all based on the taped accounting of the trip by Tony by his son who was one of the script writers.
Final word. I saw it in the theater twice - and both times the audience applauded as the credits rolled.
Now THAT'S a real movie review.
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@Jamie - Thank you. Saw it once in the theatre with my best friend. We can’t wait to repeat that experience in the next few days.
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@Aurore
Hollywood is the American Ministry of White European Judeo- Christian Majority Propaganda. The Academy Awards reward those that films that perpetuate the prevailing mythology about the meaning of their past, present and future.
The good people of America enslaved Africans and left them separate and unequal. America was founded by invading and occupying white European Judeo-Christians who stole the land and resources and lives of the aboriginal Native pioneers.
Alcohol and drugs educate and inspire and dull and distract. So can movies. Making people uncomfortable is how meaningful positive change comes.
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As always with the Times, interesting commentary. I am not anywhere close to being a qualified film/art or anything critic, but, to answer the last question in the piece, I would not miss the Oscars if it were not broadcast (or even held, for that matter). My perfect world is to wake up on the post-award show Monday morning and read who won, investing about 5 to 10 minutes, not 3 plus hours. I guess it is good for the industry to get together several times a year and compare notes, but I don't have to go. I actually saw the majority of the nominated movies - the choice was challenging, as it usually is, but picking "the best" of anything maybe is not really the best way to support or encourage exceptional art. I guess we live for the spectacle in this country, never really seeing the forest or the trees.
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@mkoleber
For the next morning you forgot to allow time for viewing the runway, I mean Red Carpet, pictures. (Some of the dresses really were worth a look, as design objects.) Otherwise we are in complete agreement.
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