Trump doesn't even try to appear subtle. Fight, California, fight. America does not have a king.
3
There is high speed rail in Asia and Europe. Here, we have nothing.
The sun is sinking on the American Empire, and no one seems to care, least of all this current administration.
2
Regardless of the issues this project has faced and the skyrocketing costs, Trump clearly wants this money back not because the project is suspect or unworthy but because California filed suit against him this week. As usual, petty, self-centered and myopic.
1
Read the article and the letter from the Transportation Department. This has nothing to do with payback by the Trump administration. This is a contract and an accountability issue. CA breached its contract with the US government (massively). Other states that received money under the same program actually complied with their agreements and completed their projects. Why should CA receive special treatment that other states didn't and don't receive? Fair is fair and contracts are contracts.
6
Why should American taxpayers pay for something in another state for which that state’s own Governor has said is too expensive and will take too long to build - and has essentially cancelled most of the project??
4
I am not sure how many of the people commenting actually watched Newsom's speech. It is worthwhile to do so before judging. It is also worthwhile to understand where the section of the HSR that will (apparently) be completed. It is worthwhile to understand the long-known issues with bringing the line into San Francisco and LA. It might also be interesting to look at what (how little?) has already been done and wonder.
HSR doesn't seem like "transportation infrastructure" to me. How about funding more BART extensions or light rail that connects to the Bay Areas other systems (e.g. ferries, BART, AC/Muni/GoldenGate busses)? That seems like transportation infrastructure that will be extensively used everyday.
Newsom says this too e.g. we can use money that might have been spent on HSR to fund regional projects and even showed a picture of BART.
Newsom's argument for finishing the Merced to Bakersfield section is to avoid having to give the money back. He says this explicitly too.
4
Not only should he claw back the rail money, but he should build the wall with it.
7
This is a president that is at war with his own country.
Maybe he should declare railways a threat to national security?
Or even declare California a threat to national security?
The possibilities are endless.
3
@Thomas
Maybe that President is right and is protecting the taxpayers of the other 49 states?
6
The State of California obtained voter approval and Federal funds for this boondoggle project under false pretenses. It’s time for the State to reimburse taxpayers and the Feds. But unfortunately the ruling Democrats in California will never allow that to happen.
5
This persons temper tantrum knows no end, ridiculous!
2
Somebody want to explain to us what "claw back" in the lede means?
We have spent over a trillion dollars in Afghanistan alone. That, alone, would have funded more than a dozen 77 billion dollar projects such as this one or, hundreds of smaller projects (subways, tunnels, bridges, dams, power grid, etc....) all around the nation.
8
Of course Republicans hate public transportation, it serves the public. They have no interest in serving the public on anything.
13
I want it all back, with interest.
7
Why aren't any reporters asking questions about whether the head of the U.S. Department, Elaine Chao, is being influenced by her husband Mitch McConnell? He is also the leader of the U.S. Senate. Also, McConnell doesn't allow legislation to go to a vote if it is unfavorable to Trump.
If Chao or McConnell disagree or make Trump angry will Chao get fired?
Does Chao's position have any influence on McConnell's decisions?
No money for California? This is posted on the U.S. Transportation website today:
"U.S. Transportation Secretary Elaine L. Chao today announced $1.5 billion in discretionary grant funding to 91 projects in 49 states and the District of Columbia. The grants are made through the Better Utilizing Investments to Leverage Development (BUILD) Transportation Grants program and support road, rail, transit, and port infrastructure projects across the country."
Reporters should start looking at who is getting these contracts at the U.S. Department of Transportation?
This is the most corrupt administration is history.
I know newsroom resources are scare but, at least, a reporter from the L.A. Times since it involves California should look at this McConnell/Choa connection.
3
The new governor is not the only one with this hot potato problem. Let's not forget Kevin McCarthy - he from the Central Valley where so many workers are now employed. He may be the minority leader in the House but he's from the Central Valley and he may well have to answer if a ton of workers are fired from those jobs. I imagine Trump's wee brain finds this to be of no interest, but McCarthy may see it as a real problem for him.
3
If they'd just let the Chinese come in and build this, like they did for the Oakland Bay Bridge...
https://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/26/business/global/26bridge.html
...none of this bad stuff would be happening
.....
What makes this all such a sad joke are all the high-density rail corridors in this country not getting maintenance or upgrades or new builds...
Let alone the Transatlantic ones...
1
@W in the Middle
The Oakland Bay Bridge was a debacle for many decades. Actually it was only half a bridge since the suspension part was minor damaged by the ‘89 earthquake. Enormous cost overruns because of a crazy awkward design statement in lieu of a simple viaduct. It’s was a prototype for the 10x larger mix of issues we’re seeing with the HS rail project. What makes this sad is that there are no really critical engineering or new science challenges in either projects.
The bridge got built and so will the HS rail.
* a funny aside is the magnificent but infamous “Bridge To Nowhere” in the San Gabriel mountains. Constructed in the ‘30s but abandoned because of the depression.
You go Europe for a week or two and now you think you know it all. Blasting China for building quality? Shame. Lest you be reminded your country’s long standing infrastructure was built by slaves and foreign engineers. The existing long standing structures (Transcontinental Railroad) not built by slaves were built by Chinese indentured servants. Now you criticize China for “human rights” and not having to seek permission. Better than exterminating the natives and wildlife, eh? All those wild, baseless, biased opinions that turn everything into politics are the real reason why the US can’t build great structures.
1
Build it!
It's time for the coasts to secede and leave Trump alone with his base.
6
Maybe once again the U.S. can look to China on the building of the railroad. This time instead of importing cheap laborers, we can take a look at their high speed bullet train they are building. :)
Why is it that the ONLY country that put a man on the moon fifty years ago, cannot seem to build a high-speed rail system anywhere without complications of some sort?
Even third world countries like India (not to mention Japan and France who are the leaders in this field) have managed to!
4
This jerk put the kibosh on a successful high speed rail.
What's up ? Folks want to travel to points between LA and SF.
Overcrowded highways make travel intolerable. Folks waste their life just sitting in traffic when they could be safely enjoying the ride.
With High speed, very comfortable, rail, the reservoir of talent around California would be "On Tap".
Then the dominoes would fall around the country. Folks would wake up to how their quality of life has been robbed by the republicans.
not to build it would be much too expensive, in pollution and our health.
republican governors suffocated Obama's high speed rail
NY/NJ were about to have a new tunnel into the core of the region. republican Chris Christie squashed that as soon as he got elected, (To get votes he was all for it,..until he got elected. He did the same betrayal to the incentives for homeowners to go solar in NJ. Many solar jobs, outfitting houses were lost, but PSE&G was happy)
2
In all honesty, what do the governance and people of CA expect? They are proud of relentlessly bashing, insulting, and fighting against Trump, since, guess what, he is working on fulfilling his campaign goals (voted by half of those who voted, never forget that) and not to the tune of CA?
Senor Bercera probably made record in suing the president and administration (> 40 lawsuits), all 'justified', and then if and when Trump or administration fight back, then they are monsters??
Same for NYT - insulting Trump daily for nearly 3 years now and if he tweets something against them, he's a monster?
Gimme break.
5
Trump hates California as he hates his native state New York and all the cultural, economic and intellectual centers of this country whom he and his base(base indeed) disparage as the “elites “ . Trump shows favoritism among the states like an incompetent and cruel father does to ill favored children. This move is symptomatic of the litany of injustice and petty vengeance that streams from this administration and its minions who represent not the United States But the divided states. All that blood in Gettysburg that consecrated that hallowed ground must groan. Our beloved Lincoln not rolling in his grave but assassinated again. How long? Our beloved country is in the greatest peril. Fight for her and her children . Defend the Constitution ,the dream that authored it and the noble lives that have been given freely with such courage to take us to this moment. Do not yield to kiss ground before the Tyrant’s feet and to be baited by his minions curse.Unite or die.
4
What a great idea. California and all the other Democrat states should also pay Court fees, costs and attorney fees for their frivolous lawsuits. Maybe the NYT can help them out.
5
@Edward,
Why not?
We pay for everything else in this country.
4
Think he remembered this?
Or the amount?
Or that it even ever happened in the first place?
Down beneath the dunder head there are no lack of stooges who are plenty malevolent and not the least bit ignorant.
1
Do it.
Get our money back.
This is fraud and California is at fault.
5
This is a perfect example of the unskilled political idiocy on both the State and Federal level.
First, we know Trump and his administration are unscrupulous vultures whose only goal is to upend progress and support the monied interests of the oil and coal industry.
Second, Gavin Newsom, just proved how shortsighted and ill equipped he is to take on Trump - handing Trump a "win" by scaling back the high speed train without offering a viable replacement project. For example, Newsom could have proposed using the funds to add high speed rail from growing suburban areas to existing urban transportation lines in order to mitigate urban housing crisis. But no, he proposes a train to nowhere. Stupid is as stupid does.
Newsom needs a new supporting cast. Congress need to remove Trump and his sycophants.
President Trump needs the money for his wall.
2
When an unnecessary wall meets a train to nowhere.
1
If anything, Trump's threats will inject new life and enthusiasm into California's high speed rail projects, will unite a majority of the state's citizens behind the project, and will result in Newsom's whole-hearted support. It is sad that the U.S. has lagged so badly behind many other countries in high speed rail to link large urban areas. It would certainly help to ease congestion and cut down on carbon emissions from autos.
2
This entire project has been so ridiculously mismanaged and it’s a huge loss for California even without considering the money spent. We badly need a working example of faster mass transit. Now any kind of push for high speed transit infrastructure is going to have to deal with the specter of this debacle...
We want to solve the affordable housing issues by building more homes, but what good does it do to build more homes in the remaining open space far away from the jobs in the urban centers? Building homes without viable commuting options will only result in a bunch of empty homes. We’ll never actually make housing more affordable unless we have infrastructure that allows us to spread ourselves out efficiently. The traffic nightmares on our highways and roads are plenty of proof that cars and individual transit are not that infrastructure, they do not scale up effectively. Mass transit is needed to solve this but our current train and bus systems are simply too slow to be viable commuting options for many people.
27
almost every comment from a Californian touts how economically strong CA is and how independent they are and that they dont even need to abide by federal laws they dont like. that's ok with me. go ahead and be strong, independent and mindful. and build your own transit system with your own money if you're going to continue to dance to your own tune.
7
Why is it in Japan that the Shinkansen works so well, but as usual in America rail transportation stinks.
By the way the Shinkansen rail system is profitable for the JR companies.
Why is it what when labor gets a hold of a big public works project in America it always seems to have big cost overruns?
2
@Peter
are you kidding? Labor is the problem? Get real.
All those companies and politicians feeding at the trough
are the problem. Just another raid on our treasury.
3
This is further evidence of Trump abusing power of his office and using infrastructure funding as a political slush fund to reward supporters and punish opponents. This coupled with his obvious unconstitutional attempt to do an end-run around Congress’ Article 1 power of the purse to redirect money from appropriated projects to build the Border Wall that Congress emphatically rejected, and his cancellation of funding for the Hudson Gateway Tunnel between New York and New Jersey, is why Congress cannot undertake Trump’s supposed Infrastructure superfund. Trump has demonstrated he doesn’t care to be seen as violating Emoluments Clause or Hatch Act. And as he goes along, he only gets more empowered to abuse the powers of his office illegitimately acquired.
4
Lots of people don’t understand that the real challenge isn’t simply building the track but getting through rugged mountain terrain and finding a stable path that is somewhat immune to earthquake damage.
The last paragraph should be right at the top of the article and is key. The governor should reserve comment until he manages to come up with California’s portion of the commitment or states when those state funds are committed.
“The $929 million in funds that the Trump administration says it plans to take back have not yet been transferred to California. That money has been allocated, but not disbursed, meaning that the money is still in the hands of the federal government. To obtain those funds, California was obligated to match a previous grant of $2.6 billion in stimulus money. As of Tuesday, the state had matched 38 percent of that.”
4
@Ralph The terrain is not the problem. Much of the track would be on flat land in the Central Valley. The problem is California and all the legal issues, permits. environmental concerns etc etc. This coupled with a mindset found only in Calif. The people putting this together collectively do not have enough experience to build a model train with 12 parts. The entire mindset there is out of control and has been for years. There is no accountability for money on any level of Government. I have seen them waste millions of dollars on more projects than I care to remember and yet they pass over things which need fixing. Like several dams in the Sierras and the school system of the entire state. It's why I left the state. The place is a sinkhole with no bottom.
3
It appears that the high-speed rail project in California will fail.
So, it's sensible for the federal government to cut off federal funding for it and to ask for the money that it has already provided back from this uber-wealthy but poorly-managed state.
6
@James Stewart Hmm, this comment about California from someone from NY with the most broken down subway system in the world? What a fiasco. What a travesty. Clean up your own problems and we'll take care of ours. And oh btw, we'll get that money in the end. It's ours via the taxes we've paid in to support the poor states that support Trump.
1
@James Stewart,
Poorly managed?
All those well-managed red-states with a budget surplus like California raise your hands.
2
I went up to Amsterdam last weekend. From Paris. Great trip. Took the train, quite obviously.
3
The Trump administration may have a point in its efforts to retrieve federal funds from California for a project that will not be built. We should also consider extending this "do over" principle to federal justices and judges appointed by fraudulent and illegitimate means. If it is proven that the Trump administration engaged in collusion with Russia during the 2016 presidential campaign and then tried to obstruct investigations into its behavior, by extension wouldn't that make the administration's appointments to the federal judiciary and Supreme Court illegitimate as well (not to mention any 5-4 and, more recently, 6-3 decisions the Supreme Court has rendered -- in which Justices Gorsuch and Kavanaugh accounted for the ruling)? Under such circumstances, the nation -- and, more specifically, the Congress -- should call on Justices Gorsuch and Kavanaugh and all federal judges appointed to the lower courts by the Trump administration to resign -- and, if they don't, the Congress should take measures to remove them. If calling on California to return federal funds for a failed project is deemed fair and necessary by the Trump administration, then calling on the federal courts, especially the Supreme Court, to cleanse themselves from the stench of illegitimacy should be deemed an even higher consideration. Such actions would help place our damaged democracy on more solid ground for decades to come.
6
trump is running the country like a seriously petty mob boss. Mitch stands by and watches. Burr covers up what he knows about Russia. Jared tries to sneak nuclear plans to the murderer in Saudi Arabia. Putin arranges meetings for trump with North Korea.
And Americans stand by and watch. We are counting on our institutions to save us and so far they have not even come close. Two years and counting.
4
@Jenifer
Mitch is conflicted. Trump would fire his wife in a NY minute and their goes Mitch's retirement double dip.
Ignore the issue of what this pot of money funds for a moment. Consider if the Feds routinely clawed back funds for projects which overran their budgets. Would we even be able to field our armed forces?
2
@Skip Montanaro You need to get familiar with the boondoggle of this high speed train. The cost of this thing is now running at $250 million per mile. Please note that Ca. has the death penalty and the stats put out by the Los Angeles Times puts the average cost to Ca. for putting ONE person to death is $330 million. Are you catching on now Skip?
I see the parallel between the cost overruns on this project and the likeliness of that happening with a 'wall'.
4
@Librarian You could build a wall around Siberia for what that high speed rail is costing.
1
there are always more than one side to the story, but the fast speed train in CA is an absolute shamble. Trump is right, it is huge waste of my taxes. Stop the hemorrage.
7
@salvador: and let the shamble cost over runs for military armament be redacted as well!!!
Donald Trump and his freeloading family should pay all of the taxes they owe. Then they can talk about California.
2
Why are people talking about what is in the press?
There are official channels through which these things are communicated to avoid the unnecessary delays and complications of acting on unclear or incomplete information.
Apparently Mr Newsom said some things in a speech and they are being acted upon as if official actions were taken and papers filed etcetera. Are we creating an imperial governor?
The Press has a duty to parse this above all else here. Freedom of the press is not a pass to avoid the parsing of things so that you can get a few extra stories out of a thing. That is teh British model and if you did not know it they are ba monarchy and they are only free at the pleasure of that monarchical government.
Their freedoms can be officially and legally revoked at any time the government chooses to do so. They are not a model to follow.
2
If the US ever wanted to build high speed rail, I think the most sensible route would be from New York to Chicago. The distance is about 800 miles and which would allow for day travel between two cities that have well developed public transportation infrastructure along a well populated corridor that has bad driving conditions for part of the year (due to snow) - all factors that create demand for rail. The route in between is also interspersed by big population centers that are existing hubs for public transportation. This line also, if successful, would help build a case for expansion to the NE corridor, Detroit & Toronto.
The California high speed rail though it connected population centers, was never going to be interlinked with other parts of country. It would have been a "California" only project that's not going to be welcomed by other states.
4
@Bala
NYC can build its own rail line. They have stolen enough $$ from this country in bailouts to cover the country in rail service.
2
@Bala You seem to have a basic understanding on how Mass transit works but not enough about city planning.
You lack vision.
There is no reason a transit system for the LA region can not be built.
Bart can be expanded.
They can build something in the Valley.
You lack the vision to see how things can change and how a new fast train can help that happen
Okay last time,
California's high-speed rail projects are about getting fossil fuel cars off their roads.
California knows man-made global climate change is happening and fossil fuels are the reason.
High-speed rail is the most cost effective way to get cars off the road and cleaner air into children's lungs.
19
@Victorious Yankee Donald doesn't like California, and wants us to pay for not supporting him.
1
@Victorious Yankee
I was hoping that Mr. Elon Musk's hyper tube would prove to be a cost effective and efficient way for travel. The fact that it's performance isn't affected by weather would be a terrific boon for travelers.
@Victorious Yankee The fossil fuels used to build and maintain this train would stagger your imagination if you took the time to notice.
1
Many commenters focus on California’s alleged poor use of federal finds, and in doing so miss the true danger the article highlights: a President whose “policy” decisions are guided by petulance and political scores to settle. If we have a President who claws back previously awarded funds without due process, without regard to federal law and its regulations, in a manner that may well violate the Constitution, and that is done to punish states or entities out of favor, then we have a country in which no state, no individual, no contractor, no project, and no investor can have any faith or certainty. The rule of law and the Constitution are under attack by the man sitting in the Oval Office, which imperils every single American and our economy if unchecked.
24
@J.
No.
This is politics and started before this country was born.
1
Another huge mistake. Light rail does not make money anywhere in this country. Look at NYC subway system, millions of riders everyday, yet it still loses money.
By the time this colossus is built it will obsolete. With the coming of renewable energy powered electric vehicles, there
will be no ridership.
3
@mbrody
Yet, every other developed country has succeeded in accomplishing this. I don't know what's wrong with us. This could provide a lot of jobs and mass transit is where it's at in terms of the environment if it is effective and reliable. Why can everybody else do it and we can't?
@mbrody It's not about the riders - it's about $100 billion of handouts to Dem construction unions and thousands of new state government jobs in the Office of High Speed Rail.
2
@mbrody,
So if things don't make money we should tank them?
Gotcha'!
Goodbye kentucky, mississippi, alabama, tennessee, west virginia...and the non-money making red-state list goes on and on and on and on...
4
So many comments about how great high speed rail is are right.
But, but...how do you manage to build 400-500 miles of rail through several very populated areas without generating hundreds (thousands?) of law suits from land owners, environmentalists, and local governments?
You can't. Not in this country or in particular in the green and litigious state of California.
China and other authoritarian regimes can do high speed rail, California certainly cannot.
8
@Garagesaler
Germany and france are authoritative regimes?
You are so very innocent in the USA. This project was obviously thought up by somebody smoking an interesting substance. He/she went to the Governor (maybe just looking in a mirror) and lo! we have a project.
Experience in Europe demonstrates that fast train projects eventually become medium fast and the slow because every town/village within range of the track wants a slice of the action. This removes a large proportion of the environmental and economic benefits. It will never make money- that's not what vanity projects are for and eventually the private sector owner/operator goes bust and the State steps in. As the state is just one big vanity project, losses will increase, fares will increase and quality of service will deteriorate.
Do you really want to go there? Get out now!
6
@Charles Coulthard But the fast trains on mainland Europe are pretty good, no? Isn't the Channel crossing much faster now?
13
@Charles Coulthard
Like most you simplify the issue. You are right.
It will not make a profit based on income created by the people who pay to ride it.
That's not the correct picture.
There will be people who benefit from having a train who do not go on the train.
Commuters who drive will see fewer cars on he road and will get to where they are going quicker.
Businesses will benefit when they can get workers who live too far away to get to those jobs by car.
Stores can be built in places where parking is not easily available in the numbers needed if all the people came by car.
All these people who benefit have to pay into the system.
When you take all of this into account you might see a profit.
@ann. The express trains in Germany are pretty good but I think this is a function of good management and the fact that they do not use dedicated lines. TGV in France is patchy, the international routes are good but the domestic services are patchy. Last time I travelled on the TGV southbound ( it was a non-strike day) my French companion was furious that the white wine was not chilled enough! One wonders whether the praise heaped on the TGV, particularly by non-French tourists has more to do with the appallingly high cost of internal air travel and the abysmal quality of service on those flights.
1
California’s high speed rail plan was misguided from the outset. Getting from SF to LA buy air is cheap, easy and the infrastructure is built. CA high speed rail should focus on getting people from places like Sacramento to high paying jobs in SF, Oakland and San Jose. Same concept in southern CA. To address the high cost of housing in our biggest cities, it is essential that high speed rail’s goal be to reduce 100 mile commutes to an hour or less.
8
The cost overruns for the California high speed train are legion. Hopefully Newsom can inject some financial sanity into the project.
Aside from that, Trump is being vindictive in clawing back the money already allocated. It’s pure payback.
On another note, other countries, namely China, are building high speed rail at a fast clip, investing in their future, providing clean, affordable, fast transit.
Why are we not doing the same?
50
@JayKaye
China can do high speed rail because its government can take any land and ignore any environmental concerns. And, no lawsuits against the projects are allowed.
It's a bit different here in California.
14
@Garagesaler- those reasons not to build a high speed rail system don't hold water. Especially considering the many advantages such a system offers once it's in place. Europe is not China, and they've already got a great high speed rail system.
9
@JayKaye,
This is fine coming from a New Yorker. Your state and the interconnecting railroad system in the east has benefited from California dollars for years.
5
This POTUS is seeking a few billion to erect sufficient barriers on our southern border to prevent thousands of foreign immigrants from flooding into our country, many of them criminals formerly evicted and many more seeking to enter illegally for monetary benefits expected from US taxpayers. Now, make a list of how many billions former president Obama extracted from our US taxpayers for HIS Emergency resolutions ie the bank bailout, various failing enterprises etc. Thank you for thinking about this.
2
Wasn't it Bush that passed the bank bailout?
2
@Snoocks2
There are at least three reasons why this wall is a sham.
First - it will not cost a few billion. Builders have already said they will need 10 or 20 times that (add on top of that the persistent claim of government incompetence made by pretty much everyone on the right and it could be 50 times that)
Second - the wall won't work. The average illegal crosses the border at about 30,000 feet above any wall in a commercial flight - and then overstays their visa. By the way, we have about 11 million illegals in the country, so stopping a few thousand is not exactly the height of efficiency. That 3% of the population is responsible for 5% of GDP - so if you really want to super-charge the US economy kick out all the natives.
Third - there are better things to spend money on (cancer research, child care, schools, ...)
The California high speed rail may be a boondoggle, but what do you call a wall that might well cost as much, won't work, and takes money from other projects?
1
@Snoocks2- false equivalents will not take that argument very far. You and I both would have lost our homes, bank accounts, jobs, and everything else we had if Bush and Obama did not go through with the bailout.
3
How about a high speed rail along the border? Trump can brag that it's a mobile barrier, and we can get on with ours in California.
7
What a shame to blow billions on trying to keep up with the Europeans. That money would be much better placed in the Trump Family Fund.
6
This is retribution, abuse of power and bullying because of the lawsuit against the fake emergency.
12
Yank, If they only came up with 38% and pretty boy Newsome is scaling the whole project back then the money should go back to the treasury. California can use that 38% on their own projects. This in not retribution this has been talked as a waste of money for 2 years.
5
Some folks are missing the point here. They're complaining about a project they know little about, making assumptions about how unnecessary the high speed rail is, how much it SHOULD cost, and how the price has increased over time.
The real points should be: 1) The Trump administration says that it is "terminating" a federal grant awarded to California by the legislature in 2010; and 2) Trump is seeking the return of $2.5 billion already spent on the project.
Is it a "coincidence" that Trump's incredible move coincides with California joining 15 other states in suing the administration for using "executive power" to make an end run around the vote in Congress denying him funding for his vanity wall? Of course not! It's typical Trump, who once tweeted: "When someone attacks me, I always attack back...except 100x more. This has nothing to do with a tirade but rather, a way of life!"
It's a way of life for a sad little man who cannot take "no" for an answer. This, like all other unconstitutional moves by the clueless administration, will go down in flames in the courts.
18
@Chris Wildman You are correct. Most responding are missing the point. Trump is a vindictive man. This is his way of punishing those he dislikes or who don't walk his line, won't play his game, won't sign the loyalty oath, won't take a bullet to protect him. Narcissist defined.
1
What a way to run a railroad.
3
Enough with the ridiculous “California gives more than its share of money to the federal government” thing as an excuse for a waste of taxpayer money. California “gives” (not donates) more money to federal tax coffers because it has more people and a lot of them earn a lot of money. Californians pay federal taxes at exactly the same rates and brackets as taxpayers in those “poor” states. So what?
That doesn’t entitle California to be “special”. It should be treated equally with overly other state. That “we pay more” mentality is just like wealthy communities thinking they deserve special, more and better public services like police, schools, etc. than those poorer places they turn their noses up at. I thought progressive ideals scorned such elitist thinking.
3
@George S - well, in New York, the city and the state, you enjoy a highly developed and robust rail network.
We want one too. In fact, everybody should have access to one. Since we do pay more than other states, I don't see why we shouldn't also enjoy benefits that others have. Not only will CA benefit from it when it is finished, but neighboring states will also see rewards from it as well. So I don't see that it's nearly as selfish as some people seem to think it is.
@laguna greg
That system in New York was not built will money from the federal government.
@George S,
You should never let us know which of our fact-based points angers you russian trolls and trump supporters the most.
Now all we'll do is remind the world that while republicans claims to hate socialism, 85% of red-states literally would not exist without socialist handouts from blue-state juggernauts like California.
Hypocrisy: See the koch-owned gop.
2
I'm a California resident, I really want the high-speed rail, and I'm angry that Gavin Newsom has scaled back on it rather than doubling down. And of course this clawback demand is a revenge move. Trump hates our state and the feeling is pretty mutual outside of the Central Valley.
However, that doesn't excuse us holding onto allocated money we don't plan to use as intended, and I hate the idea that we'll blow more of it fighting another lawsuit.
Isn't there a cunning way we can get a two-fer out of this? Give the money back to Congress so they can utilize it for border security, and use that to somehow undermine Trump's legal argument that this is a national emergency? Or request to reallocate the money for border security done our way here in sanctuary city California? I'm sure someone more legally clever than I could both improve border security and set a nice fat Trump Trap with this situation.
2
He’s trying to find funds to build the wall.
3
A Hyperloop on the Freeway 5 median would be less expensive, faster, and have far less opposition by NIMBYs. High speed trains are excellent means of transportation where they exist (Europe for instance). We can bypass that era of technology and do something better- electric powered, long-range transport at aircraft speeds. Put the entire California high speed rail program on hold while Hyperloop technology is being refined, and deal with the claw-back in the courts to delay action until a not-insane President is elected in 2020.
3
As a former California resident who has experienced earthquakes there, I would not be comfortable on a bullet train riding on tracks that traverse so many active fault lines. But, yeah, aside from that, Trump is transparently vindictive and childish.
It’s disappointing that California failed to execute on its high speed rail project.
A fast train linking northern and Southern California would bring economic benefits, and would be an example to the world of what Americans can do.
It does seem a little petty to try to claw back Federal funds already sent, but given that Governor Newsom called off (“scaled back”) the project last week, there’s no reason for the federal government to keep sending money in the future.
The Texas high speed rail project btw, linking Houston and Dallas (the nation’s 4th and 5th largest metro areas) is on schedule.
And without federal money.
8
"The project has been a major employer in California’s Central Valley, where bridges and overpasses have been built." So Mr. Trump, Does this not fit into your non existent infrastructure plans and jobs. jobs, jobs?
4
@HMP
Of course not, he only wants jobs for those states which supported him.
“The failed Fast Train project in California, where the cost overruns are becoming world record setting, is hundreds of times more expensive than the desperately needed Wall!” Mr. Trump wrote on Twitter.
Ha! When is the last time Trump drove on the 405?
17
California train to nowhere. Ponzi scheme on the US. Gov moonbeam II give the money back.
9
@Mike- now if only that were true. If only for your sake, I wish it were.
It will be the sight to see if the next upcoming democratic presidential candidate asks Texas & Southern states to pay back flood and hurricane money.
23
@Aditi You can hardly compare the devastation of Rita & Katrina to Cal's slow-motion traffic patterns. Shame on you!
4
Those aren’t comparable. The train is a waste of tax payer money, that even Newsom previously admitted was a waste of resources.
2
@Nick apparently Trump thinks giving money to Puerto Rico is a waste of money
First, Donnie, pay back the billions in losses caused by the petty, idiotic, vindictive 35-day shutdown that YOU instigated, then we can talk.
53
The two issues are not related. trump's attempt to punish California are lame and smack of a desperately childish man.
26
Not only is the appalling DJT correct to want the $2.5 billion for this Democrat railroad boondoggle back, he should also withhold any other Federal funds as long as California is a illegal alien-enabling sanctuary state.
4
I’m a huge believer in high speed rail. I’m less of a believer in the US having the guts to do it. What happened to America? We built the transcontinental railway. Built the Eisenhower Highway System. Built the Erie Canal and Hoover Dam. We supplied the entire WWII Allied nations with the everything from tanks to helmets. Yet we can’t seem to manage to build high speed rail? It’s sad and pathetic.
30
@Mike L I so agree. This is one of the many sad consequences of an economic system that enables the lion's share of wealth in a country to aggregate in the hands of a small minority, starving federal and state treasuries of funds that could and should be used for the common good. The right wing has somehow succeeded in painting any efforts at sensible taxation and government-funded "infrastructure" (in which I would include health care, btw) as evil socialism. It's really what was once broadly acknowledged and proudly defended as "the social contract." I guess they don't teach that in school any more, either.
27
@Mike L
High speed rail would be very useful in a number of places, but will never really work or be profitable on the scale some fantasize about. All of the achievements you cite - and they were indeed achievements- were before we thought we had to please everybody, before we hamstrung ourselves with thousands of pages of rules, restrictions, limitations, mandates, massive inefficiency now baked into the procurement systems, and so forth... Supporters also fail to take into account the reality that however much fun and enjoyable train travel can be (it can also be dreadful, as a trip on NJT will illustrate), it no longer is deemed doable by a lot of people for time reasons. Even a high speed train (200 mph?) cannot begin to compete with a 550 mph airliner past a certain distance. People just won’t take 2-3 days to cross the country when then can zip across it in 6 hours in a plane.
4
@Mike L
America stands alone in the world today.
Instead of cooperating, learning, benefiting from our trading partners, we seek isolation...all in the name of politics.
China has an unsurpassed High speed rail system, a technology they acquired from Japan, Germany and France and have vastly improved upon. Then again, Chinese technology are deemed a threat.
1
How dare you California!
How dare you think that the tax revenues paid by Californians belong to California.
As any trump supporter knows, California's tax revenues belong to those red-states that hate Socialism the most.
The hypocrite states.
39
Well said- On the dot!
Wish our leaders pointed out that hypocrisy more often.
2
More tit for tat cry baby politics from Trump who hates California and is looking for any way to build his pathetic wall...
17
$2.5 billion would have bought a lot of solar panels to fuel those electric cars that nearly everyone in California will probably be required to own long before that railroad to nowhere is built.
3
Only $77 billion? We all know the "real" cost is usually 50% more, likely more. Much like New Jersey, California is full of corruption.
Here in Northern NJ, after 10 years, they finally completed a 280-foot-long bridge ..... the cost: $61 million. Yes, $218k per foot. Wonder how many pockets were filled in that project.
6
@Dennis, which bridge? If you're referring to the Bayonne Bridge (which is longer than 280 feet, I think), raising that roadway was a miracle of engineering and a great example of creative re-use that will allow the curent larger-sized high-seas container ships to use our ports. Benefits all around. I'm not excusing political malfeasance in any party, but I'd be curious to know so that I can drive over it and get my couple of hundred dollars' worth!
America seems to have lost its taste for beings and board projects that will help in the long run more than they will hurt in the shore. I'm sorry to see Governor Newsom pulling back on a wise and creative project, but even sorrier to see Trump take political revenge on California for the "sin" of having voted Democratic. This is not what truly patriotic Americans do, but nobody ever accused Boy Donnie, the president of only the radical right-wing fringe, of being truly patriotic.
8
@CP adds: Sorry for the major typos. The first line should read: "America seems to have lost its taste for big things and broad-based projects that will help in the long run more than they will hurt in the short." And now I hope my main comment makes more sense! (That will teach me to rely on a speech recognition program!)
That money should be reallocated to transit projects that are starving for it elsewhere. This is a former Obama legacy give away program that should have been completed already. Worse, its an expensive wasteful project that will serve few riders.
7
Surprise surprise, another failed attempt at green transportation, driven by endless environmental regulations and totally incompetent politicians. AOC's only real world work experience and yet she is now an expert on throwing good money after bad. Wake up, reality sucks but you can't change it.
8
Yes, because only John Galt knows rational objective reality.
2
Donald Trump is an American hero. He has taken on a huge correction in America's former plunge to the bottom. Giving American borders some real viability, sorting out the shambles of an unfocused foreign defence policy, revising foreign trade so America doesn't get screwed and guilted into paying for a world that has always seen the US as a financial patsy. This wall will be built and America is already picking herself off the floor and standing proud. Donald Trump is doing the world a favour by fighting his way through a sea of internal corruption and self interest. He is the leader America needed most at a time of her greatest need.
4
@Tony Francis
Wow, so Canada really did legalize pot.
You must be a comedy writer. LoL!
I agree with the Republicans and trump. Everyone should be free to drive up and down the California coast in their Bentleys, without having to encounter eye sores such as public transportation vehicles. . . which might impede their views.
I also believe California should return the $2.5 billion to the feds, just as soon as they pay us back for all our support to the red states over the last 10 years.
23
Here's what the project was sold to the public at originally.
"Voters approved the high-speed rail project in a 2008 ballot proposition. But at the time the rail authority projected a $40 billion price tag, a 2028 completion date, and a $55 one-way Los Angeles to San Francisco fare. "
I'd bet before it is done if it ever is done the cost will be well north of $100 billion. That's a LOT of money!
4
This is what politics with NIXON were like. He rewarded his friends and allies, and punished anyone that opposed him. Today is worse because the Abuse of Power is exposed daily and everyone thinks this is OK.
13
My father was a consulting engineer on BART. An amazing project connecting SF with its suburbs. Now BART is a mess. Not maintained, never really finished. The people of CA have to buy in for this train or it will end up like BART.
7
This project was doomed from the beginning-a huge federal outlay for a dubious result-a rail line from nowhere to nowhere. Its main attraction being that it was ambitious. Add in huge cost overruns and changing political direction and one sees that it was a boondoggle to start. Good that the feds, with Trumps help, have finally pulled the plug. The only ones to get upset are the Californians who want to make a living out of building the thing and the Democrats who whine about the beautiful state of California not being a shining example of socialism.
The rest of us say Right On.
5
I think there's a compromise waiting to happen here - Give Trump his 25 Billion Wall money but require that the location of the wall be moved about 900 miles North - so the wall extends from LA to New York and runs through Kansas...and then require that it serve as the concrete base of the new Trans-Continental High Speed Rail System!
2
The problem here, in the first place, is Newsom, who made abandoning the high speed rail his first major announcement upon taking office. Why? He neither has the leadership and vision nor the guts of his immediate predecessor.
5
Clearly CA is struggling with improving their transportation infrastructure; it is a public policy initiative issue in most states due to cost and complexity.
Anyone who thinks knee jerk retaliatory actions like what the president has promoted is improving the situation is deluding themselves, and just adding an unnecessary layer of pain and uncertainty to such projects is foolhardy, and contrary to the public interest.
Californians clearly were already struggling with the engineering, first cost, and long term operating cost issues, so it is remarkable to witness the president embark on making the work even more difficult.
No matter how badly CA was running the show, Trump’s behavior is entirely antithetical to working on solutions, which does not surprise but the nation can ill afford the ridiculous tit for tat battle he seems intent to pursue.
40
Politics is the enemy of progression and perhaps it's impossible for government here to get anything done. While Japan, China, and other countries successfully build modern infrastructure, the US lags behind. High speed rail is everywhere in China and Japan. It may take a conglomerate of private companies here that can recognize the potential for offering comfortable speedy travel. Years ago, I saw on "60 Minutes" a remarkable grand train station in Great Britain. It was the destination for a train that ran under the English Channel from France which seemed very extraordinary compared to things here. A plan like in California came decades too late because of population, the cost of land, and the extra labor involved. A better project would have been a transcontinental railroad or one that travels several states across the nation. If you believe that our convoluted highway system and air travel is the wave of the future, our future inhabitants are going to be very disappointed and miserable as the population grows.
3
The amazement lies a level or two above the immediate actions.
First, that the edifice of laws in this country allows for this kind of vindictive political attack from central authority.
Second, that those currently in power know about such powers and are eager to use them.
The disclosure is that we are already a banana republic, by the book, waiting for the generalissimo.
5
I know nothing of the merits of the rail project. What strikes me here is the small-minded, self-centered vindictiveness of the person currently occupying the president's office.
11
@Stevem. If you “know nothing of the merits of the rail project”, the myriad problems and failings of which are well documented (the LA Times, in particular, hardly a right wing rag, has done excellent reporting on it) then how do you know Trump is wrong? He’s wrong about a heck of a lot, granted, but in this case he might well have a point.
4
@George S You completely missed my point.
@George S- I live here George, and while the LAT has done a good job, Trump is wrong about this project, that money, and the major benefits that will come out of it once completed.
A petty man with a petty threat pathetically abusing his power of office. What is California’s return on our federal tax dollars? What’s Trump’s return as he cashes in on the presidency?
7
I'm sure there are plenty of bogged-down red state projects that urgently need to return federal money.
What is really needed is a chief executive that engages his brain before his little fingers on an I phone.
If I had an employee that sent me messages in the middle of the night , complaining about coworkers and making up stories of his greatness ,,,... I just wouldn't tolerate it.
7
This one has yet to build ANYTHING.
4
Newsom should announce that it is going to be named “The Most Terrific Dear Leader Trump Railroad” with large statues of “trump” to be placed along the route and at every station.
3
This is fascism plain and simple.
He's using the power of the state to attack his political opponents.
6
We need a barrier on the southern border more than we need some California governor's vanity project.
1
Now Newsom has given Trump a WAY of taking big money out of California, from a project the people of California voted for! What a dummy of a governor we now have in California. It’s only been a month in his term.
3
How childishly petty can this President (and/or his administration) be? Do we still need further proof that Mr. Trump has the mind of an adolescent (more like a toddler actually)? And, his administration supporters are abetting this behavior.
3
Yet another example of the sheer spite and vindictiveness that drives this rotten administration.
5
It really is quite something to see an American president be so openly and repeatedly hostile toward a state in the union. It's disgraceful, but such is life when the country is governed by a petulant man-child.
Having said that, Newsom's shortsightedness on the high speed rail system is disappointing. Intrastate rail travel has a much lower carbon footprint than flying or driving, which I thought would be a priority in a state that sees itself as a global leader in climate policy. Moreover, given the sorry state of our country's infrastructure, and our complete lack of imagination when it comes to making improvements (it seems the only solution we can think of is to widen existing highways), this project could've been a blueprint for the rest of the country as far as regional transportation networks are concerned.
36
Spending $2.5 billion on a train to nowhere makes about as much sense as a wall in the middle of nowhere, so now Democrats gets to explain why their high priority vanity projects are suddenly so essential. Good luck, Gavin.
7
@John Doe
Umm... He done vetoed it.
2
@John Doe
Evidently, you have not driven on the 405 and 5 Fwys lately......at any time of day, much less during rush hour.
If you would read the article, you would see that the proposed train route would be from LA to San Francisco. Most would not refer to thoses cities and the many cities between as "no where."
6
@John Doe ... I agree, and I'm an Independent Voter who often votes Democratic.
Since when has there ever been a pressing need for high speed rail between Merced and Bakersfield?
6
@James
Are you saying the people of Merced and Bakersfield never have any desire or need to visit LA or SF?
1
@Jeri P
So rather than roads a multi-billion dollar train, that ridership won’t pay for, is the solution for those residents?
2
@Jeri P
The rail line that might, maybe get built in my lifetime will run *between* Bakerfiled and Merced. Anyone in those cities who wants to visit LA or SF will need to get in their car.
1
Hmm, did Trump-crony, Chris Christie ever replay the Feds the $3 billion hs stole from the ARC tunnel project to plug holes in his phony NJ State budget?
No, I didn't think so...
12
@NYer
But he should have.
Two wrongs don't make a right. California should pay back the money. So should New Jersey.
Why are Republicans against the High Speed Trains and do not support Mass Transit?.
3
@Abdul Muqtadir I imagine there's multiple reasons, but the first place I'd look is the fossil fuel industry -- and their campaign contributions.
2
@Abdul Muqtadir, for the same reason GM killed the efficient and reliable trolley system in LA so they could replace the trolleys with buses - more unnecessary manufacturing and more use of oil. Follow the money.
3
@CP
An urban legend that historic analysis doesn’t support. It’s just the famed myth of the 200 mpg carburetor that the car companies “hid” to boost sales.
Regardless of the merits or feasibility if the rail project, how is it possible we have a president who so shamelessly engages in such political games? Trump is a disgrace, but we all share blame for allowing him to continue to hold office. He must be impeached or removed from office now!
6
Enough is enough. The emperor must be dethroned.
1
$77 billion for a 385 mile train that few will use. A prime example of big government run amok.
3
@paul
Understanding issues before you post is essential.
$77B is for a train between SF and LA. MANY MANY people would use that.
The scaled back project is much less expensive. And is the first part of an ultimately connected SF and LA HSR project.
The current project structure was unworkable, and so Newsom is using this tactic to restructure the process. Maybe bring in some experts from France or Japan, which Brown was unwilling to do.
6
@LEM I understand government waste and corruption when it stares me in the face. And nobody is more corrupt than the big government Democrats who control politics and the purse strings of California. Having lived there for a few years (and thankfully having gotten out) I can tell you from first hand experience that Californians will never forsake their cars for rail, no matter how fast it is. You might want to understand facts before you post.
2
@ No, it would be used. It would open up the whole central valley to further economic development too.
In addition to the obvious petulant retaliation, this Trump idiocy is cluelessly ironic. Trump claims that one reason for clawing back funds is that the Fast Train project will never be completed.
His "emergency" declaration and government shutdown were both over an amount of funding that, while significant, was completely inadequate for completing his "wall." He has inflicted pain on millions in order to appease his willfully ignorant base, while never acknowledging that his boondoggle will never be completed. America needs to "claw back" every penny this conman has extracted from our nation.
5
Just a way to fund his wall.
The short-sighted nature of this decision is matched only by its vindictiveness and capriciousness. For shame.
2
Good. I hope we sock it to California.
2
@DRS Who is "we"? It must feel really good to punish those you don't agree with, like the current president. This us vs. them attitude will surely strengthen our country, right?
2
@DRS Watch out! CA taxes funds many, many Federal programs our dear brethren in red states rely upon.
2
High speed Rail needs more Federal dollars, not less. States that contributes large amounts of tax dollars to the federal government deserve them. Just like NewYork and the Gateway project. The federal government is hostile to states that are democrat leaning.
6
it is way too funny coming from trump who is famous for not paying his bills.....
5
The new war between the states in three, two, one...
That California high speed rail project really is a prime example of liberal waste and corruption. Just compare it to the high speed rail project in Texas that is being done at a fraction of the price.
https://www.texascentral.com/posts/the-difference-in-the-texas-and-california-hsr-projects/
3
@Aristotle Gluteus Maximus- while I don't entirely disagree with you, history tells us that making public infrastructure projects private usually does not end well for the public, especially related to transportation. One of the problems private investors have in the long-term is that they expect ever-increasing amounts of profit. In the last half of the 20th century, we in California have seen a number of private toll roads, for example, increase their tolls to the point that fewer and fewer drives can afford them. AS ridership goes down, the managing authority edges into insolvency, and then they want the state government to bail them out or to sell it to them at top dollar.
Since this is most likely what will happen with this project, it seems to be a better choice to have it start out in public hands. Since the public will be paying for it no matter who built it, their interests will be better protected in the long run this way.
I also must point out that the Texas project has not yet been built, so it's just speculation on their part about how much it will ultimately cost them and the public. Remember that even private corporations can have budgeting mistakes and cost overruns too.
1
All Federal grants have regulations that must be met by both sides of the agreement. Although Trump has a history of shafting the other party in the agreement, the grant can only be terminated or modified consistent with Federal regulations. The Trump peoples' "I'm the boss" attitude doesn't fly in a court room.
1
Russia is jealous of California, so they directed Trump to stick it to the Golden State. Just kidding.
California is in trouble:
- Fires
- Floods
- Deteriorating roads, bridges, and dams
- High taxes
- High cost of housing, food, and fuel
- Homeless people living on the streets of SF and LA
- Drug addict shooting-up on BART
When does the Big One hit the SF Bay Area or LA Area?
@Sam Freeman- what you're describing is not any different from 50 or 60 years ago, yet we still have the 13th largest GDP in the world.
@laguna greg
I have lived in the SF Bay Area 50 years and conditions have become worse in all categories I mentioned. I am moving to Carson City NV this Spring.
The United States should have the most advanced and efficient high speed rail network on the planet. It should be the pride of our nation. Something we brag about. California should be the crown jewel of the system. Instead we are 40 years behind. It is absurd that people still have to drive or fly between the cities of San Diego, Los Angeles, San Francisco, Las Vegas and Phoenix. Outrageous. Rail should be front loaded. Of course Trump is against high speed rail, and in favor of a divisive propaganda project like his wall. He is part of the problem, not the solution. Meanwhile, the costs of anthropogenic climate change are skyrocketing and will only get worse.
66
Several comments, both on Califonia's SF to LA train and on transportation in general.
Like many projects, this one is too big. Break it down into smaller components, each of which has merit on its own. Build one or two at a time, gradually linking them together. Make budgetary and operational success of the components a condition for future construction.
Like all infrastructure projects, building is sexy, continued operations are not. That is especially true for operations like roads, schools, railroads, none of which can provide enough income to finance ongoing operations and maintenance and thus and need continuing operating subsidies. As a result, maintenance is neglected and service deteriorates. I've heard -no- discussion as to what level of continuing operating subsidy will be required for SF to LA rail. Without budget agreement on this, the line shouldn't be built.
The real money to be made, and the real benefit to be had, is not in light weight, high speed trains carrying people, but heavy, slower trains carrying freight. Not sexy, but far more useful. Operating both types of trains on the same lines is inherently problematic. The Port of LA is among the world's biggest and busiest. Replacing truck traffic in and out with rail will greatly increase the number of ton-miles per unit of fossil fuel, getting trucks off the road and mitigating climate change.
Not only are carbon taxes warranted, but mileage taxes are warranted, especially in California.
2
It doesn't matter who finances new railroads or other needed infratructure. It doesn't matter how, either. If it's needed, build it.
But it does matter when an agreement between financing bodies is broken because some one person's pique gets the better of him.
1
The London Crosslink is $20 billion for 73 miles. Using the same per-mile rate would put the California project at roughly $140 Billion. Building new rail though populated areas is not cheap anywhere. Which is not to say that the California project was free of bad decisions..
1
@Justin Starren
You can't use Crossrail as a comparison. Crossrail is within dense, urban London. Most of CA HSR is in the deserted central valley. There's no reason it should cost $77B.
2
I'm sure this sort of financing is not done in other countries. The federal government needs to build railroads, not state governments.
3
California likes big new shiny things but those things quickly get run down and seedy once the novelty wears off. The Central Valley would be better served by a decent well maintained low speed rail system for travelers and commuters. The key being ‘well maintained’. The biggest problem with a high speed system is the cost of actually maintaining it, something one never hears about, will be enormous for something that won’t be used much. Losing this money isn’t a terrible thing if it prevents the state from wasting more.
3
@AG - "California likes big new shiny things but those things quickly get run down and seedy once the novelty wears off."
That comment applies to the entire country, not just CA. The infrastructure of our entire country is rotting, making Trump's comparison between wall and mass transit all the more cynical. Not only aren't we investing for the future, we don't maintain our existing structures. And now we're building a boondoggle wall, that is certainly "not shiny and pretty", and will require hundreds of billions in future infrastructure outlays.
This is madness.
4
@AG- we have low speed rail now in that area, and it's too slow to use for commuters for the distances covered.
California could likely get support from Trump and the Republicans for its high-speed rail project if they committed to burn only coal to operate the engines.
21
Tell you what, when Donny pays back all the people he stiffed in his bankruptcy filings, then we'll talk.
13
Bankruptcy was a legal proceeding. The Billions spent by California on a now abandoned projected is just a rip off.....
@Cromwell Not abandoned. As is often stated in comments sections: try to keep up!
1
Trump seems to be trying to instigating Civil War II between between his base and the rest of us, and between red and blue states especially with the largest and bluest state.
The anti-debt and anti redistribution of wealth GOP party is busy bankrupting our nation and redistributing money from blue states to red states.
If trump can get away with clawing back this money from California, perhaps there is hope of clawing back the wall money even after trump spends it.
Fortunately trump can't use eminent domain to take over California.
5
This economic hostage taking needs to stop. As a Californians, we are net contributors to the federal accounts, sending more money to Washington than we receive in benefits. I would like California become the middle man to our personal Federal tax payments. We should be able to pay our legal Federal tax obligations to a State clearinghouse and let the State send it to Washington. I suspect the $369 billion Californians send to the Fed would represent important leverage against King Donald.
9
Mr. Trump is correct to demand a return of Federal funds.
In the US, many expenditures by states are funded by the Feds, including infrastructure projects. This is a very bad way of doing things, but it’s the way the system has evolved.
The Federal money was given to California for a specific purpose; it was not an unrestricted grant. If California has substantially changed their project, they owe US taxpayers the money back. It is all too easy for state politicians to waste huge amounts of public money by making promises they don’t fulfill. To these politicians, in this case Gov. Newsom, the wasted money was largely paid from outside California, so it’s easy to discard. This is, of course, what NJ Governor Christie did when he cancelled the Hudson River ARC tunnel project after billions of dollars in public money had been spent.
In a separate matter, Mr. Trump is angry at Gov. Newsom, who is doing his best to block Mr. Trump’s initiatives on immigration. In this case, Mr. Trump is correct. Under our constitution and laws, Immigration policy belongs to the Federal government and our elected President, not the states. The correct response is for Californians is to try to vote Mr. Trump out of office, and continue to vote in congressmen who support their views.
Over the long term, state infrastructure should be funded by state taxpayers. We should reduce Federal taxes, and if necessary increase state taxes, to make this possible.
6
Easy, Alex. California pays out more federal tax dollars than it receives in federal money, supporting most other states and I’m sure Indiana is one of them. We’re quite tired of being dumped on while others can only hope for the economic and cultural influence we carry. History has proven what happens here will eventually influence the rest of the country and the world. We may appear laid back, but we get things done.
5
@Raymond
Seriously, your dubious “cultural influence” merits some special consideration in doling out federal tax dollars? Wow.
2
@George S- well yeah, what of it?
Nancy Pelosi asked if Trump was a petty man. He is not just petty but vindictive and shameless. It's a clear retaliation to the lawsuits filed by California. It's an attack on all the voters of California who are being shunned by Trump because they voted against him. He is out of control and needs to be removed.
10
Why does California need a $100bn rail system when you could just fly from LA to SF?
5
The new "Green" deal does not allow for flying!
4
@HC45701, same reason as we need a steel slat wall running through miles of inaccessible barren wilderness. Democrats are just as much slaves to their egos and campaign promises as Republicans, obviously.
@HC45701, mmmm, let’s see. Because railroads are a much much more energy efficient mode of transportation. Because the service provided by airlines has become atrocious ever since the airlines were substantially deregulated and mergers allowed to run amok. Because the hassles of airline travel with all the security measures have become nearly intolerable. Because you can get up and move around in a train and not spend half or more of your trip strapped into a flying sardine can. I rest my case.
2
There will be more of this clawing back from blue states. The shoot-themselves-in-the-foot posse in charge are learning that most of those military construction projects, from which they plan to divert funding, are in red states.
4
Sure, let's just keep giving California money for a train that they themselves admit they won't build because they are incompetent.
4
There are few things more malevolent than a vindictive ruler.
8
This shouldn't be viewed through the lenses of all that detest Donald Trump. This is about lack of leadership by Gavin Newsom.
I live in California and see this project up close. The proposed "plan" will never be able to fulfill the specifications of the bond measure that was passed. It's a permanent government subsidy waiting to happen. It was approved with a $10 billion bond and no additional funding. The costs stand at about $77 billion and climbing. There has been several audits that show delays, cost overruns and inefficiencies. But hey, when is government on time and on budget when it's not their money?
Gov. Newsom admitted it in his State of the State that the project is a dud. Rather than do the prudent thing and pull the plug, or look for alternatives such as hyper connecting the Bay Area and LA region, he decides to double down with the brilliant idea of connecting Merced to Bakersfield. This will not "unlock economic opportunity" for the people of this region. They have great needs, high speed rail is not among them.
Gov Newsom ran on a platform to combat Donald Trump. He has and Trumps pushing back- what did he expect?! Not too intelligent to criticize someone who holds the purse.
Gov Newsom should help California figure out it's growing list of social problems, of which there are many, not get into a shouting match with an idiot. As a native Californian nearing retirement and seriously considering leaving my home state, which makes me sad.
7
@Jeff We built a bridge and 2 tunnels here in Boston (to travel to the airport and bypass about 2 miles of downtown). The project was estimated at 2 billion, and ended up close to 15. That's the Big Dig. The high speed rail project faced high hurdles, and the new governor chose to truncate it. I dislike the waste associated with my city's Big Dig. But the cost of infrastructure is always high. The cost of bad or no rails, bridges, tunnels, is higher. On balance, we must put a top priority on the future in this USA. There is enough wealth in this country to invest in the future. We might wish that building projects met their budget; did the carport on your house come in on budget? Or, to point out the obvious, any single DOD project from tanks to jet fighters??
33
@Jeff- Jeff, I live here too, and I would love my tax money to go to pay for a transit system that actually served me. You can leave the state if you want to, but I don't see why you would except persona aversion.
@eric williams
I have no idea what Jeff is talking about but driving around Boston is still pretty miserable. I wish they had spent the money to make the T somewhat useful. Unless you're some 9-5 commuter living in the burbs, the entire Boston underground is a complete waste. You're better off walking than taking a train. The roads are only that much worse.
"If you don't give me the Deed to your ranch,
I'll tie you to the railroad tracks!
(And then along came Jones..)"
Remind me, why should ny residents pay for a train ride for residents of california?
2
@jimmy
Federal transportation funding is provided across the country and in every State. What is your point, exactly?
2
The same reason Vermont residents pay for a subway ride in New York.
1
And I want Trump to personally pay back the 11 Billion that the Fed loss due to his 35 day government shutdown. His Gaul never ends
8
California will wind up spending this money on entitlement programs for illegal immigrants or some other silly thing, the government should claw back in any case, the money could be spent better elsewhere
4
no doubt trump will use this money for the wall.
1
This is about Trump taking out vengeance against California. How sick is that?
7
Let the China Railway High-speed (CRH) build an operate the California High-Speed Rail system — their track record (no pun intended) is the best in the world. Jerry Brown's vision was and is correct, but the state has no business doing this as amateurs. Figure it out!
1
If nothing else, Trump is true only to his own core. If he perceives you dissed him, he will punish you. Not only horrible parenting but an evil president. These are the kinds of things we read about almost every minute without relief. Retaliator in chief. California and New York look out, the retaliator is on the run.
Great idea, Mr President! But, please, don't stop there. Could you pay back the amount of money being spent for the Mueller investigation when it is complete? Also, please reimburse the federal government for the Secret Service bills for protecting you at Mar-A-Lago. And since no one knew what Omarosa did, that also could be added to the bill. And how about the short-lived Voter Fraud Commission headed up by sycophant Kris Kobach?
I'm sure the little things add up too. For instance, Ivanka attending the Security Conference in Munich? Seriously now... And do we really need to be spending money for artists to come up with a new paint scheme for Air Force One? I know you have a lot on your plate right now, so I would be happy to work on this whomever you designate. Maybe one of the Wall financing guys waiting for the next assignment?
6
California botched the project from the start. My company was tasked with assisting the state with construction only to find it potholed with political kick backs and special interest money grabs from the giant pot of gold everyone perceived. The state mandated workers minimum pay e.g. holding a stop / go sign was mandated pay at $45 per hour; not joking.
We pulled away from CalTrans a little more than 3 years ago and honestly it was the best decision given the complete and utter mismanagement and underhanded dealings.
I fully support mass transit rail systems but cannot support frivolous spending, no oversight, and no accountability.
24
@Nature Voter
Yes and if we elect one of these people from CA we will get what we deserve.
My Daughter moved from NY to LA with her husband. She said there are so many homeless people wandering around with big backpacks she's afraid. They all load up on the Public Transportation everyday and my son in law says its disgusting when you are the non homeless person on the train.
Take a look folks at whats happening in LA and SF. Coming to a city near you if you elect a Socialist from CA or anywhere.
5
Unlike Trump California pays more in federal taxes than they get back.
Trump isn't even willing to show us his tax returns.
Also unfamiliar to Trump is how useful a high-speed rail would be for commuters, since Trump does not work for a living.
Not for this country, at any rate.
However, he certainly has been working on favorable outcomes for Russia and the Saudis, along with his own business interests.
Trump should be sharing a jail cell with his former campaign manager.
31
@Jbugko
Isn’t that payment by the wealthy exactly what socialism requires?
2
You write, "Gov. Gavin Newsom of California, who announced last week that he was scaling back the project..." No, this is not right.
“Let’s be real,” the governor told a joint session of the California Legislature on Tuesday. “The current project, as planned, would cost too much and, respectfully, take too long.” And he continued, “Right now, there simply isn’t a path to get from Sacramento to San Diego, let alone from San Francisco to L.A.”
Instead, Newsom wants to build high-speed rail tracks from Merced to Bakersfield, two sparsely populated central valley hamlets as the famed Alaskan bridge to nowhere.
A contract is broken when one party arbitrarily changes the terms. Washington has every right (and obligation) to withhold money from this flawed project as California violated the original contract.
15
@Appu Nair Thank you for raising the point re: Newsom's actual speech to the legislature. Hardly surprising that the NYT conveniently got this wrong. The HSR has been a disaster from the start-blown budget projections, a "pay-as-you-go" model for financing the HSR & incompetent project management. The Central Valley, chiefly Fresno, is littered with HSR concrete pillars just sitting there. I believe Victor Davis Hanson referred to this as California's "Stonehenge."
4
Interesting. The areas that would take the biggest economic hit would include the areas represented by Representatives Devin Nunes and Kevin McCarthy as well as corporate agribusiness. Not only would he lose his lapdogs in the House of Representatives, this President could give the feeble and weakened California GOP the final push into extinction.
6
"The project has been a major employer in California’s Central Valley, where bridges and overpasses have been built. 'We have to keep in mind that we’ve got real human beings working on this right now, thousands of them, whose jobs are at risk,' Mr. Richard said."
Typical CAthink. Their Governor cancels the project and they're still pay-rolling workers to build a nonexistent project.
Of course the Federal Treasury should get its money back!
7
@JBC- the project is not cancelled. Please try to keep up.
And while that money may well be returned, that's between the state of California and congress, not the president.
Europe, Japan have high speed rail travel. It’s the norm. Our transportation system used to be the envy of the world. Not anymore we are laughed at for our dirty subways and inefficiency.
Soon under the leadership of Trump and his minions we will be using horse drawn carriages on a regular basis. This administration which has no bright minds, better realize that California is not going to return the money because without California, New York and other states standing up to a dictator we would all be living like the families of soldiers in substandard housing. Haven’t heard anyone talking about the housing report. Glad once again the Trump administration showed there hate for thinking Americans.
2
Honestly, the CA governor has been acting like a child and when dealing with Trump he's asking for this type of retribution. Obviously Trump has a narcissistic and child-like way of processing life (, but the CA governor deserves this mess given his antagonistic tweets and comments which are stirring up the pot.
Take the high road for your state and workers! this did not need to end up this way. Poor judgement.
Also, the same goes for recent budget. The democrats could have used this wall money for SO much good. Maybe it's ineffective , MAYBE, and maybe it sends the wrong signal but it could have been used to get practical amnesty for millions of young Mexican immigrants, or used to fund more green projects. Will anyone in this country take the higher road? Trump won't, but maybe the rest of us can?
1
Not only is he attacking his former allies, he also attacking the states in his own country. Only way to stay in his grace is to sing him praises.
You do not have to look far to find the greatest enemy of your state.
Good luck America.
4
@Truthseeker. Trump is attacking states in Russia?
Yet another reason why California, sixth largest economy in the world, should exit the "union," ie, the Dysfunctional States of America.
CalExit or bust!
8
Of course CA wants to keep the money after curtailing the project. They probably need it for welfare.
6
@James. If the Feds just gave California back what it pays in, there would be more than enough to fund the train.
2
@James Or maybe, since CA pays so much more into the US Treasury to support states like Alabama, South Carolina, Wyoming, Idaho (you see the trend), maybe CA just feels that it is CA’s money to begin with.
2
High speed rail between LA and SF would reduce air travel between those two places by a huge amount. If other parts of the world can make high speed rail work, then we can too. This is an idea we must not give up on.
6
@JVG It isn't so much the idea of giving up on the HSR as it is the colossal project mismanagement in Sacramento. That needs to be sorted out before anything else. Otherwise, taxpayer funds will continue to be tossed into the nebulous vision of high speed transit within our state.
1
Is it possible that this is one way for the current vindictive regime to retaliate against California (specifically the attorney general) for instigating a 16-state lawsuit against The Trump's wall?
8
this misleading piece should be studied in all journalism classes for the key fact that it omits: the $billions of taxpayer money will be spend on a shiny toy that will move - at most, but at very high speeds - a dozen people per year between Bakersfield and Merced - not LA and SF... cancelling it is absolutely the right thing to do... reallocation of the wasted funds to more useful ends (e.g., education, health care and other progressive causes of the day) is an obvious fig leaf... why isn't California's Governor using it ?
7
No! California and many other states have a transportation “emergency”. You can actually experience it every day.
2
@John Gelland
NY has it worse, and we don't get squat from the federal guvmint.
Fund your own transit, or fund ours too.
1
@asdfj- considering that CA now has about 20% of the total population of the country living within its borders and is its most populous state, and we also have the most cars on the road of any state, and the most freeways, I'd say no, you don't have it as bad as we do.
Getting the money back is the responsible thing to do!
7
Nice to know that economic policy during this Administration is based upon personal animosity and grudges versus facts, reasoning, and logic.
5
not everyone, even in California, is enthusiastic about the high speed rail project. of course, Republicans are mainly against it. it is pretty clear from here the threatened actions by the feds to "claw back" federal dollars that have so far been put into the program is an effort to punish and divide the state and to build support for the Trump administration at a time when California is leading the nation is opposing so much of the President's agenda, through lawsuits and in other ways. thus new action is another attempt in a long list of Trump actions to build support among the backward thinking and to quash opposition to Trump's authoritarianism. like most of the Trump efforts, it won't work. his days are numbered.
11
@Pottree
Sorry, but those are federal tax dollars...meaning my tax dollars were used to back a system I will never use and will never benefit from its existence ...then the project goes belly up...how do rationalize Californians should not feel the least tiny bit obligated to their fellow Americans that California owes the rest of America a little sumpin-sumpin? Where is our Return on Investment...Where is the rest of Americas money on a failed endeavor? Instead of using their own state funded money, they dove head first with smile into the federal coffers because Californians have depleted their own accounts on frivolous entitlement programs. This whole article shows how removed and bubbled these metropolitan biases have come. To merely pass this off in your flippant remarks as partisan hackery is disingenuous to the rest of us tax paying Americans who feel the carpet baggers have left with our money. You owe the rest of us financial accountability at a minimum, would you not agree?
1
Part of the reason for China’s booming economy is due to their massive investment in infrastructure projects just like California’s rail project. If you look soberly at the ROI it will dwarf the outlay and initial costs.
8
@Andrew
China was able to build an successful nationwide high speed rail system in a decade. It's taken more than 10 years for LA to build a subway line from downtown to the westside. Meanwhile, we continue to sit in paralyzed traffic.
8
@Curtis M- all the more reason to get these projects built then.
California with a population of nearly 40 million pays more federal taxes than any other state. It is the fifth largest economy in the world. Fact is our money stream is a huge part of the federal budget. How dare he try to strong arm California.
20
@C Hernandez
NYC's MTA doesn't get any funding from the federal government.
Fund your own transit, or fund ours too.
1
Californians like to trot out this little fact whenever they’re feeling indignant, but a more relevant statistic is federal taxes paid per capita. In that regard, states’ per capita contribution range from a low of about $4,000 (Mississippi) to a high of $24,000 (Delaware). California is somewhere in the lower middle at about $10,000 per head.
Even more relevant is the underlying fact that California itself pays zero in Federal income taxes. US citizens (or, more accurately, 52% of US citizens), some of whom happen to reside in the Golden State, each pay individual federal income taxes (“from each according to his ability”), which are then pooled and subsequently doled out to other US citizens (“to each according to his needs”). This is known as “income redistribution”. As I believe California is a big supporter of income redistribution, Californians should not be complaining about sending their dollars to citizens in other states.
2
@American- that might be true, but then again people shouldn't be trying to deflect the argument either with irrelevancies or false equivalents such as in your post.
the feds have a valid point, when it comes to feasibility, overruns, and mismanagement.
that have a feckless motive, which is purely political.
case study in how far politics has clouded the rational, evidence based and competently administrated governmental control of social process and progress.
what else can a clear eyed and self interested social actor do except withdraw into his or her personal resources, avoid as far as possible all entanglement with "authorities," and leave these kinds of problems for other people to wrangle?
welcome to the "collapse of complex societies" (Joseph Tainter).
2
Regardless of whether the plan and project were a debacle of ill-conceived proportions, the attempt by the Trump administration to recover the funds is not and should not be considered legal by any stretch of the imagination. This request is clearly a continuation of the Trump administration attempts to demoralize the state of California for their joining in a suit against an unconstitutional act by the president. Of course the president couched it in terms of the monies not being granted for the WALL which show that the reason for the request of the return of funds is a personal vendetta on his part. Congress should investigate the connections of Mr McConnell, Ms Chao Secy of the department of Transportation and the president in regard to any of this request thoroughly. The president should never be allowed to interfere in any state's projects regardless of their feasibility or costs. He is NOT their project manager nor is this a Casino project like the ones at which he failed repeatedly.The fact that he is is once again on a Twitter tirade against a specific state's elected officials and their people is symbolic of his out of control attention to his vanity project, the WALL.
4
The bullet train was approved by California voters in 2008. The bullet train was supposed to cost 33 billion and done by 2020. Now it’s 77 billion and 2033. It is shaping up to be the biggest boondoggle in history. The easiest part of the route isn’t even close to being done. Wait till they get to the mountains.
Three quarters of Californians now think the train isnt worth the money. If the Californian politicians were smart they should cancel construction of the train route and blame Trump. They will never have this out again.
9
@Jim
Please post the link substantiating your claim what three quarters of Californians think. Making up an idea in your head does not allow you to speak for most Californians, you can only speak for yourself.
1
hilarious to read a chief of the executive branch demanding refunds over cost overruns, not from the DoD (10x worse) but from a project that actually employs thousands of people in rebuilding infrastructure in a severely affected traffic region.
2
Makes total sense. Use the money for a very useful project and put it into building a wall which can be climbed with a $150 ladder.
3
The California "bullet train" was a boondoggle from its inception. It started out by snookering the voters into approving a bond issue to pay for it, but the amount so approved was grossly inadequate to pay for the job.
So good riddance to Governor Jerry Brown's California Choo-Choo. I hope the money will be spent on fixing California roads and bridges, and adding new ones to relieve the growing freeway jams.
The so far unanswered question is what will happen to the rights of way acquired north of Modesto and south of Bakersfield. Will they be abandoned? Returned to the land owners from whom they were taken by eminent domain? And remember, when a taking for a public project is abandoned, the state has to reimburse the owner for his attorney and appraiser fees, and that won't be cheap, thus illustrating one of Parkinson laws holding that it's easier to get into things than out of them.
5
@Maven3 Eventually you run out of space to "add more roads and bridges" and they don't solve the problem. An easy example - extending the 405 carpool lane for less than 8 miles cost $1.1 billion dollars (that's for adding ONE lane) and traffic is already just as bad as it was before the lane was added. Complete waste of money. Cost per mile if you include maintenance, auto accidents, time wasted due to traffic jams, (Will that drive from LAX to Sherman Oaks take 25 minutes or 90 minutes due to traffic? Depends on the time of day.) roads are MUCH more expensive, and carry far fewer people, less efficiently, than a good public transit system.
3
Odd how almost every Republican knew this rail was a bad idea and every Democrat thought it was great.
Now that a Democratic Governor has cancelled it, who was right?
4
Trump's demands for California to return the money may be politics. But so is the California Governor's decision to sue Trump regarding emergency funding for the wall.
The Governor should stop acting so innocent.
2
@Alan Klein - The President doesn't allocate funds for projects. Congress does that. That's how our government works, and always has worked according to the Constitution, which is the authoritative political document of the land. According to that document's rules, the President was denied funding for the wall.
How about the next President declares an emergency to provide funding for mass transportation because of global warming?
4
@Martin
The Executive Branch manages spending after Congress authorizes it. If California stops their project that the funding was allocated for, the President is the one that makes arrangements for repayment to the Federal government. The Congress does not have the executive power to do that. The President controls the DOJ, the Treasury, etc. If California refuses to send the money back, the Executive sues California in court, not Congress.
The GOP, neatly summing up its priorities: medieval border wall over modern public transportation.
How many high-speed trains would Trump’s trillion-dollar tax cut for the rich pay for?
7
It is with great trepidation that one can defend the bully but the project epitomizes the word boondoggle. California has scaled back the project so much that this high speed rail project is now the ultimate railroad from nowhere to nowhere. Of course, will it be needed when in a few years, Californians will be able to hop in their eco-friendly electric cars. California will never pay back taxpayer's money for this folly of a project, but the idea that they should is rather compelling to this taxpayer who paid for California's mistake.
4
Republicans seem oblivious to how economics and financial stimuli work. Large infrastructure projects that use American labor, steel, electrical components, concrete, and building materials are INFINITELY more beneficial than worthless and ineffectual tariffs. You want to help American steel companies? Fund infrastructure projects with “Buy American” provisions.
4
“The failed Fast Train project in California, where the cost overruns are becoming world record setting, is hundreds of times more expensive than the desperately needed Wall!”
We don't know how much the wall will cost.
3
I recently flew to Los Angeles on SouthWest from Oakland. The plane was about 20% full. The cost of the round trip ticket was less than $200. Did any of the socialist bureaucrats who brainstormed the High Speed Rail plan, check the economics first? If there were a demand for this, then the planes would be full and the prices would be high. Furthermore, we have I-5 which is only a four lane freeway that often packs up, but our "green" politicians refuse to widen it. Or to think about promoting long-distance electric cars. The entire project is a "canary in the coal mine" about the so-called Green New Deal. Centralize power, use other people's money, and make colossal and very expensive mistakes. The federal government and its tax payers SHOULD get their money back and the brainless Californians who voted in the politicians and project SHOULD bear the cost of this boondoggle. OK, well I'm off to Venezuela for an AOC rally on the Green New Deal. I'll be taking the Light Rail across the Caribbean and eating a vegan meal pre-ordered for me by government bureaucrats who know better than I do. See you!
4
@Jason McDonald- Jason, I fly that route and others all the time for work, not on Southwest but on Alaska, and have for years. And every flight, every time, is booked solid with no empty seats.
Please tell me your secret because I would love to be able to stretch my legs!
Oh great. Precedent is always helpful. On behalf of the American people, we should prepare a bill recovering the ill gotten gains that the Trump Organization and the awful Trump family have accrued as a consequence of Donald assuming the Presidency. We can direct it to the Trump Organization, the inaugural committee, and the RNC. Sounds fair, right?
The governors of California, New York, and other progressive states should pass a law saying that they will send back to the federal government only as much as they get back.
Oh, and the federal government would have to pay first.
The progressives need to start bashing the red states who are a drag on human progress. Bring it on.
1
@whaddoino Red states tried to separate from the Blue states once before, triggering the Civil War. Secession started with acts of civil disobedience (like the one you propose - withholding taxes). Are you suggesting we re-run the Civil War, with Trump in place of Lincoln, fighting to re-unite the USA? First remember that Red staters supply the huge majority of soldiers, sailors, airmen in the US armed forces, and that the percentage of individual gun ownership is much much higher in the Red states. Blue states can fight back with witty blog posts, proper lattes and better personal grooming and fashion but I don't think it will be a fair fight.
1
@Richard- Oh I do, for us any way. California now has the 13th largest GDP in the world, larger than many countries who maintain standing armies. We can easily have our own. We also have all the aerospace design and production tech here in the state, so making our own weapons will not be a problem. 7 of the most important strategic military basis in the country are here also, so that’s a real bonus. As California is the most populous state in the union, with over 40 million people, filling the military ranks won’t be difficult. Many of our sons and daughters already serve.
And you have been sadly misinformed if you think we don’t carry guns. Many of us do, all while sipping lattés and giving fashion advice.
This is retribution. It is very similar to what Governor Christie did to Fort Lee at the George Washington Bridge. Of course, Christie got away with it.
California has to stand up against this.
Politics is tough and dirty. Good people must fight it as best they can.
1
As usual, Trump is right. My old state of California has become a political nightmare. Horrible place now, with horrible people and run by socialists. A high-speed rail is a good idea but so are planes and flying cars. The problem, as usual, are the lawyers taking way too much money for this project. Build the Wall, then Rail, and keep on budget and on time, as Trump would do in his building projects.
5
@Labete just a reminder that Trump's building projects always went over budget, he frequently stiffed investors and failed to pay contractors, and declared bankruptcy 6 times related to failed development projects in to get out of his obligations. So I think suggesting we do as he did in his projects is probably a bad idea. The list is long, but look up Trump Tower Toronto, Trump Plaza, Trump Castle, his $250k estimate for a new embassy in Jerusalem that mysteriously stalled when the people responsible for building it actually put the cost at tens of millions of dollars. Trump can't meet the same standards he asks for in others, a classic bully and hypocrite.
2
@Labete- oh that's rich, complaining about socialists in CA and then leaving it to move to Italy, a real socialist country!
It is plainly retribution. Basically, the Trump administration wants to bounce a check and defraud the state. Something Trump is personally familiar with as a business tactic: just ask all those contractors he has stiffed in the past.
I want a world where Trump and his adherents have nothing to do with my life. Europe will go it without the US. California should too. If we have an earthquake, let's deal with it ourselves, with international assistance. I won't have Trump tossing out paper towels here. Fox bashes California all the time. If the Trumpies don't like us, they can stay out.
1
Base-riling distractions. Ignore and impeach, please. I want public, under oath hearings about how unfit this man is for office.
3
Come on, California... Don’t you know that money can be used to fund another billionaire tax cut? The Republicans need it now!
3
Trump “is not getting” the money if CA looses. The US taxpayers would. And they should. This preposterous plan was canceled by a left wing politician not Trump.
The money was was stolen from CA taxpayers and bond holders and US taxpayers through lies. Once again media looked the other way rather than questioning the fantasy budgets and ROI. Not to mention tunneling through mountains suiting on top of earthquake faults.
5
What would it cost today to build I-5 from the Bay Area to LA? Compare that massive $$$ number to building high speed rail. Who should manage the project? How about the folks who built rail systems in Germany or France?
1
So, federal funding for projects is now contingent on kowtowing to the president? Used to be the merits of the project mattered. Now everything is just dependent on the whims of one man. And, people scoff when I claim our republic has been overtaken by an autocracy.
97
Fact #1: California's high speed rail does not connect to any other states, so other states do not benefit. There there is no reason for taxpayers from Florida, Idaho, or even Nevada & Washington to pay for this project in the first place.
Fact #2: Border wall protects entire US from lowered wages from illegal labor. Taxpayers in every state would benefit. Democratic party has claimed to represent the working class people - but open border policies are hurting workers, by lowering the wages due to illegal labor.
Let's use federal funds for construction projects that benefit everyone in the country - and not local projects. Let the states pay for in-state infrastructure, and the federal government pay for inter-state infrastructure.
4
@Herbert Williams
"Open Borders" must mean borders without walls because Democrats consistently vote in favor of increasing border security with 20th Century technology, just not walls.
2
@Herbert Williams #2 if the problem is undocumented workers causing low wages the solution is easy, just enforce the existing laws like Republicans always say. Go after employers who employ undocumented immigrants. Take away employers business licenses instead of just a slap on the wrist and the problem will stop. New businesses that follow the rules will spring up under the free market and everything will be great. But the building industry, meat packing and farming industry all depend on low cost labor.
1
I would like to say public transit is not a Republican or Democratic issue. It is a transportation issue. Some of the earliest light rail systems in the US were in the most conservative cities, e.g. Portland (yes Portland was deep red in the 1980's), Salt Lake City, and Dallas. The Dallas system only started construction after Pres. Bush's signing of ISTEA. On the other hand, liberal cities routinely voted down light rail measures, e.g. Seattle and Austin, TX. The only liberal cities that actually supported rails systems had high African American populations and were on the east coast, but the west? No. So why again do we think rail transit is a partisan issue when the cost of this California rail is 5x-6x comparable systems around the world?
1
I’ve never seen the rationale for this line between SF and LA. Those who compare to European and Japanese rail service ignore the vast differences in geography between the US and those smaller countries. Paris to Lyon is 290 miles, so a TGV can do that in 1.5 hours. But most of our larger cities are much farther apart, and people who might have spent 3-4 hours on a train fifty years ago will not do that today.
High-speed rail does have a future in this country, but it must be used intelligently. Over the past 50 years, we have promoted air travel in cities that might instead have a high-speed rail link to hubs. If that multi-modal approach were used, I could take a high-speed train to DFW, get off right in the terminal and avoid parking (and if properly designed, even security that was handled prior to boarding the train) and be on my flight to NYC in less time than it takes me to drive to the OKC airport, park, and go through security.
5
@Ockham9- The French TGV goes many other places than to Lyon, and much, much further. I used to take the TGV to Bretagne frequently, for example, a trip of 3+ hours depending, and the seats were usually mostly full. I took it a few times from Paris to Marseilles, which took half a day, and that was full too. I understand from friends who have regular business in Geneva that the Paris TGV has to be booked as long as a month in advance, so that's a busy route too.
I’m a consultant, and I work throughout California. And if there was a HSR from LA to SF or Sacto, I would take it every time rather than drive or fly. One can actually get work done on a train; it’s just like a mobile office with its own lunchroom. It’s vastly better than a plane, as you can actually recline in your chair or stretch your legs out while seated without starting a riot. And you miss all the traffic, a very serious problem in the state. I know many, many people who would do the same for both business and pleasure, if they had the option. The long-proposed route from LA to Vegas would of course always be full because you don’t have to worry about your car, and you can safely and legally drink on the way there and back.
I have no idea where people get the idea that nobody would use this service.
It seems appropriate that the a Federal government should be able to recoup its money as the project is not going to be built as it was described. It would be great if some of the 200-400 mile routes could be served by high-speed rail, but California obviously does know how to accomplish the task.
17
@Thomas Smith
Think beyond the current participants please. Do you actually believe your state of Texas (or any other state) has never failed to spend Federal dollars in the exact manner initially requested?
2
@Thomas Smith- please keep up. The project is not cancelled.
I think most people acknowledge that this rail project was a collossal gift of taxpayer dollars to consultants but they don’t also realize that high speed rail isn’t even as green as it seems. There are enormous emissions involved with the extensive construction necessary. If you want people to be greener, change zoning and allow denser housing like Manhattan where people have the lowest emissions per capita
20
@Peter: Yes, but then they need good public transportation more than ever, which is already sorely lacking. And any extensive construction causes extra emissions. You'd have to weigh those emissions against emissions caused by current modes of transportation (individual car, airplanes), over a period of time. let's say, a decade or two. If Japan, Europe and China can build high speed rails, surely the USA would be able to do it?
21
@Peter
High speed light rail is the answer to LA to SF. The emissions from electric generation plants would be a fraction of the total from auto . Travel time could be cut in half to 3 hours or less.
Its long overdue.
5
@Peter Denser housing is great, until an earthquake hits. Manhattan doesn't have that problem.
3
California pays by far the most federal taxes of any state. They paid roughly $420 billion in 2016, about double what the next two states (New York and Texas) each paid.
Newsome isn’t wrong: this is California’s money. If they want to spend it on high speed rail, that’s their decision to make. Last I checked, you can’t ride a border wall from one town to another so I don’t see any connection between the two projects.
60
It is not California's money. Incompetence reigns supreme in California, and this is a colossal waste of My money. Federal government should sue to recover all of it, and cut off future funds until all of it is recouped.
3
If Gavin Newsom is what we can expect from the re-branded left-wing Democratic Party, I'm liking it less and less.
Unlike the rest of the country, California never got a good intra-state rail system. It got railroads connecting the East Coast with the West Coast. No good route connects Sacramento, the Bay Area, Los Angeles, and the cities in between.
Building what other states already have was always going to be an expensive, time consuming, and politically-ambitious project. The key is to take it easy but stick with it, build a section every year, until the job is done a decade or more from now. And if you're going to build a railroad from scratch, it might as well be state-of-the-art.
Pouring money into upgrading private railroads for improved passenger service is not necessarily a good investment. We spent over $1 Billion on the Union Pacific route between Chicago and St. Louis and got essentially nothing.
6
For the edification of NYT readers, Republicans do not hate public transportation. What we hate is the inefficiency of government which directly correlates to inefficient spending and waste of tax dollars. That can span from unions driving up labor cost to lack of incentives of actually delivering a project.
23
@AntiDoxDak
And how do you describe the efficiency of the Trump administration? Surely in your minds, it's leaps and bounds better than any democratic or republican president in modern history? That's what I thought.
4
@AntiDoxDak
Yet many Republicans support building a $25 Billion wall that will block U.S. access to a major river, the Rio Grande, which is the border between Texas and Mexico.
Also, Mexico was supposed to pay for the wall.
3
@AntiDoxDak If that's so, then why no comment against 'Space Force', the wall, the disastrous tax bill, etc. The current regime has already raised the national debt 2 trillion (to 22 trillion) dollars in two years!
3
China built 16,000 miles of HSR with 600 billions USD in 10 years after the 2008 Olympics, 70 billions is lot of money for a small stretch. Can we ask the Chinese to help to build it ? With their massive experience we can learn a lot.
10
@D
Sure thing...all we have to do is just "adjust" our processes to emulate theirs. No longer have to bother with pesky things like eminent domain, or environmental impacts, or even more corruption, or a host of other normal procedures of the Party in Beijing. As easy as that.
2
@D
We have the construction talent to do this project. China builds non stop with large crews and isn't effected by challanges from local property interests.
We have a different system, however the Cal. project has been poorly managed even with the letigious challanges.
We don't do massive projects efficiently in recent decades with these restraints. A project of this size needs to have a military time table ( as in war time) with total authority to proceed with minimum court challanges as was the case with projects like Hoover Dam, Interstate Hgwy., NASA, NYC highway projects from the 30's.
1
@D - Make America great again! Build our infrastructure with Chinese labor and materials! Woohoo!
2
First, California’s HSR is stalled mostly due to partisan tug of war. China’s first HSR corridor, Beijing-Shanghai, is 800 miles long and went from construction to commercial operations in a little over 3 years. It is matter of committing to it. But as countries like China marches into the future, we are stumbling backwards. Petroleum, from which we get jet fuel, won’t be around forever, and it won’t stay cheap forever.
Second, federal grants aren’t favors for Trump to hand out and take back. There are laws authorizing grants to states under specific conditions. Besides, if Trump wants the federal grant, then California - biggest source of federal tax revenue - should get its tax dollars back.
17
Again
, the Beijing/Shanghai corridor is very densely populated and not well-served already by good roads so it is relatively envision a return on the investment.
What is The Donald going to do when Putin wants all of his money back? I don’t think he’ll be able to stiff him like he does his contractors and employees.
9
Forget about whether California has stumbled on the high speed rail project. Forgot about how much money California actually contributes compared to just about any other state.
This is clearly retaliation for the lawsuit California filed regarding the wall. Trump is attempting to punish Californians for exercising their right to petition the courts for redress.
20
Like the 2017 tax scam that purposefully harmed Blue State taxpayers, withholding federal money from the California high speed railway is an act of petty, mean spirited and divisive spite. The Trump GOP, incredibly including one of its few California congressmen (McCarthy) seem deadset on harming our nation’s largest and richest state, and by far the biggest contributor of tax revenue.
Evidently the Trump GOP view themselves only as the government for red states. Perhaps California (and my home state of Illinois) should withhold giving tax money to the federal government that is used to subsidize poverty stricken red states?
21
My biggest problem with the left opposition to the wall is that it is just a wall. It it not going to hurt anybody and it’s not a new idea. We have 500 miles of wall already. Most of it in California. Maybe it is a waste of money and maybe not. One can debate the same about the trillion we spent in Afghanistan. Personally I would rather have the 5 billion dollar wall then the trillion dollars we spent in a war with no purpose and no end. The only reason the left doesn’t want the wall is because Trump wants it. It is totally out of spite.
14
@Jim
Most of us in the border states don't want the wall because it will negatively impact communities along the border, take private land, be an environmental disaster, destroy cultural and historical sites, and in most places, unnecessary.
4
@Jim Not just a Wall, It is a pay back for a favor granted, "vote for me and I will build a wall".
The fight against the HSR project by the power brokers who see a large chunk of their income being taken away.
P.S. the trillions spent could have been put into the WALL and the RAIL and would have made a lot more sense.
1
@Jim: The wall is going to do enormous ecological damage, inhibiting the free movement of wildlife, and also access to the Rio Grande for the property owners along the border. The Trump administration actually wants to build a wall from sea to sea, stupid as that may sound, where there already is a river. The wall is not going to stem illegal crossings or drug smuggling to any significant extent, and the Democrats don't want the wall because it is a waste of money, which you also point out may be the case. There have been no studies about feasibility, ecological impact and cost-benefits of a wall vs. other solutions (e.g., electronic surveillance, more border personnel, e-verify, etc.), so no, spite has nothing to do with it. Many Republicans are also against the wall, why do you think they didn't push it through when the had the majority in both House and Senate or two years? Trump is the one who always acts out of spite, punishing people who doubt him or criticize him and who don't say "amen" to all he wants.
1
Did we get all the money back that was spent on the Hudson tunnel that Christie canceled or any money spent on the high speed rail in FL that Scott canceled. Or is it different if a GOP Governor cancels?
20
@Rich - there was no money spent on those projects as they never started. NEXT.
1
@DRS
Money was spent, just not on construction. Planning and engineering.
While beset by some problems, the proposed California high speed rail project isn’t cancelled or a complete failure. The withdrawal by Trump of federal money isn’t tied to the merits. Instead, it’s another day, and further evidence that the Trump regime doesn’t represent the United States. All they care about is their precious deplorable base of about 30% of the country and idiotic proposals like building an unnecessary and highly unpopular wall on the Mexican border.
Trump needs to be impeached and removed from office.
10
Here in France with extensive high speed railway, many people prefer buses or cars because the train tickets are so expensive.
As an American expat for 16 years, I prefer the incredible comfort and speed of the trains but my French neighbors believe the trains are badly managed at too great an expense!
6
@Michael Kittle: The French are too pampered with public transportation. They wouldn't even transport their cattle the way Manhattanites are transported in the subways and New Yorkers in their trains...
This is retribution. Let us pray for the end of this vile dictatorship
32
@Iced Tea-party
Are you talking of the One-Party Control of California?
1
He stiffs his immigrant workers and contractors, so why not try it with the states?
10
Uuuuuu
Californians pay taxes
That rail money does not need to be given to trump.
No!!!!
10
@nurse Jacki
If California didn't use it for the train, they should give it back. That was the deal.
@Alan Klein,
"Mexico will pay for the wall!"
I remember that plan.
2
The federal funds were transferred to California for a specific project. Experience tells me that the documentation related to such a transfer of funds were done on very very specific terms that are memorialized. The State should follow the terms of their agreement with the Feds, nothing more nothing less. The State also needs to be careful about the cost over runs and the projections submitted for the funds originally and the States capability to complete the project. That is where this is going to get hairy.
What a surprise a governmental organization got a $77 billion project wrong. Who approved the project in the first place?
8
@Matt
The Feds are in constant costs overruns. They shouldn't be pointing fingers
@Matt
"Who approved the project in the first place?"
Voters, Matt. It won a popular initiative vote.
1
@Matt
Just to follow up. This isn't a slight miss. The project was approved by California voters in 2008 along with 9.95 billion of general obligation bonds for 50% of the construction. That puts the project just under 20 billion. That would mean a cost over run of 50 Billion on a 20 billion project. It's a good thing to cancel. Now those same tax payers need to own up to the agreements made on their behalf by California government officials at the time they took those funds from the Federal Government. The Others here that are citing the Federal Highway system, also need to understand that when passed (Act of 1956) the first time a national gas tax was also passed to pay for the highway system (3 cents per gallon) and it paid for it. People just don't know how infrastructure works or is funded. That state must be careful about clauses in the agreement that could or would cancel other federal revenue sharing if a default takes place. go slow and don't play politics with this.
1
Strange timing. The Trump administration will do anything to punish states or individuals that disagree with their policies. This is the worst form of federal government coercion. It seems like every decision by Trump or his lieutenants is meant to force their policies down people's throats or take-away their rights. In this case, it is clearly retribution - just like the idea of taking disaster funds away from California and Puerto Rico. This is no way to run a democratic system.
14
All U.S. politicians appear incapable of managing important projects with near unlimited budgets. They are amateurs. it pains me as a Democrat to say, we need a real project manager with a track record in the White House no to take important projects for our nation. Romney or Bloomberg. Either one.
4
@Bradley
They won't be any better at reducing the debt and deficits. It's easy to keep spending when you have a printing press in the back office.
1
If Donald wants a legacy project, why not one that links people not one that divides people. Build the rail not the wall.
9
it's amazing how easily people fall into the either/or false dichotomy. whether building this rail link is good or bad is completely unrelated to whether building a wall on the southern border is a good idea or not. That is what makes the comments linking them so suspect.
5
@Brassrat It's the blatant hypocrisy of this administration and its transparent attempt to punish Democratic leaning states that is the issue.
42
@Brassrat They are related a bit. by the pot of money and by the people who it is going to affect.
Hardball. Boondoggles. Interesting move. Two can obviously play that game.
3
@AACNY
The problem is, this shouldn't be a game.
I thought we were still waiting for Oregon to account for the $400 million in federal grants it wasted on their state ACA website - that never went live. Poof! $400 million, gone.
8
@Midwest Josh
The Dems want to forget about that. I'm sure it kept some of their supporters employed for a while.
1
@Midwest Josh
We were discussing California, right?
I see you are from the Midwest, so perhaps this will be news, but Oregon isn’t in California.
But both are on the coast so it’s conceivable you might think red herrings live offshore. They don’t.
3
@Chickpea - oh, I know. Been to both states, both amazing. I’m just pointing out examples of colossal waste of tax dollars. At least Oregon has nothing to show for it, while California residents will get to look at an unfinished eyesore forever.
Trump should serve as much time in prison as his former campaign chairman.
And as far as excess is concerned, that's Trump's middle name and always has been as he drives our country into the ground.
5
Leaving aside for the moment the argument over the value of the high speed rail project this is about retaliation against Trumps “enemies”. Trump thinks of the federal government the way he thinks of his business, as it’s his, to do with as he pleases. All the rest, laws & investigations, congress and all the American people who did not vote for him are simply obstacles to get around or run over. We are like Trumps numerous victims, contractors & employees, small businesses and investors, unwary partners and governments, all marks and targets for Trump to cheat, defraud and intimidate. He’s spent a lifetime getting away with outrageous behavior & doesn’t understand why it shouldn’t continue to work now. Will Trumps hubris finally bring him down? Enquiring minds want to know. The rest of us certainly hope so.
23
So this, um, president is suddenly concerned about wasting federal funds? That’s irony.
19
With all due respect it serves obstructionist politicians on the left right.
1
@JW why is always the other party the obstructionist, I wonder. May be a good debate is a feature of democracy. Something that is definitely not a feature of democracy is retribution.
to understand your point, is there a structure or example for those obstructionists that we can look up?
This is clearly ex post facto. But it is not passed by Congress, which appropriated the money. Trump and his minions ARE enemies of the Constitution.
1
With ever pronouncement trump fires off from his twitter gun or come roiling from his halitosis imbued brain, he and his party peel back another voter who is unlikely to support him this next time around. All of these projects are boondoggles. The cost overruns are also questionable. But then the Golden Gate Bridge or Hoover dam might never have been built. Perhaps we could claw back some of the financing the government paid for his failed casinos. It’s been said: The man is not smart enough to run a fast food restaurant. He is also not smart enough to run a campaign. What he tapped into in 2016 is tapped out. The republicans run a serious risk of losing the other two branches of government. The current crop of democrats running sadly inspires nothing in me. It’s quite possible that the 2020 election may have the lowest turn out in record.
If you don't bend the knee or kiss the ring...Trump punishes you. Trump is the King of Petty.
5
The current President has absolutely no idea how government works.
He's dumbing down America to the point where his philistine followers will start to think his way IS the way things are done, when it isn't.
The rest of the country that voted Democrat wants Trump to pay for his weekly 3 million Florida trip on the tax payers dime. It works both ways.
9
that's really smart!
I'd love to see more high speed trains. They're good for the environment and reduces freight costs, among other things.
But last week the headlines said California had cancelled their train.
Claiming the money for a train they're not building is still theirs is like a college student who drops out claiming the tuition grants are still theirs to spend as they choose.
6
@Talbot They are asking money that has been already spent. So tuition is already paid. now no going back on that.
1
Maybe Trump can pay back the government for all of the money he received for renting out rooms and and golf carts to the Secret Service.
26
There are always string attached when the federal government grants dollas.
Politics aside, it's nice to see some accountability.
8
@Engineer,
Accountability?
Why is kentucky entitled to California's tax revenues decade after decade?
Does kentucky EVER have to repay California for the tens of billions its syphoned off?
No?!?!
So much for your accountability.
2
Who would have thought that Trump would be a childish bully when he is losing?
Okay, that was a rhetorical question.
9
Easy money for the necessary new potions of the Wall.
2
@Dr. John - Ha. “Potion” is right. Trump is all alchemy and snake oil.
@Dr. John first off its not trumps money to demand back, I am guessing if it was federal money then it was approved by Congress. trump is just being a jackass.
How about we pass a law that says states can only take out of the Federal Treasury what they put in. Frankly, this blue state resident is sick and tired of subsidizing the lazy Red Welfare States.
80
Most of the tax money that fills our nation's coffers come from California.
By far.
Californians must get a kick out of it when they see parasites from insolvent southern jokes like mitch mcconnell's insolvent kentucky whining about wasting tax dollars.
Tell you what mitch and kentucky, you take back what you paid in and California will take back what they paid in.
You guys might be able to buy an Arby's restaurant with the money you contributed.
California could buy kentucky!!!!
132
@Victorious Yankee. "California could buy Kentucky!!!!"
Yes please.
8
@Andrew Kansas too if there is any money left.
3
Forget this is about Trump for a moment-
Why is there no responsibility for the receiver of government funds to actually deliver results on these projects within budget or face consequences, such as paying the funds back or substantial penalties? Thee is no responsibility to be fiscally sound.
The money goes out the door and projects are never delivered without outrageous cost and time overruns. Honestly, it’s a joke and a waste of taxpayer money. The NYT articles on the MTA were eye opening. I am sure the inability to get anything done in NYC on time was a factor in the Amazon decision, although Amazon was naive thinking anything else.
19
The USA is no longer the country I grew up in. We are now the “can’t do” country of the world. China can build high speed rail but we cannot. In fact, all we can do is create billionaires and poverty.
62
@Rick
Safety regulations, code requirements, labor unions, etc have raised costs of construction. We can't afford to build any more.
4
@Alan Klein
cry baby. make it happen with more stringent rules. make everyone follow you. don't follow china.
@Rick And violent gun deaths.
As a New Englander, I am far removed from this problem, but if I were a Californian, living in the world's 10th largest economy and with its liberal and humane values increasingly at odds with the rural and Southern-dominated American culture, I would be seriously questioning the value of remaining in the US.
Perhaps now is the time for California to join with Oregon, Washington and Hawaii to form the new progressive Republic of Pacifica. What value do these states get by belonging a country dominated by the backward values of the Old Confederacy?
Also up here in the Northeast, Canada is looking better every day. Trump is tearing our country apart. Putin is sure getting his money 's worth.
79
@John M Exactly, if Trump and the Republicans don't feel the need to follow the Constitution, why should the rest of us?
4
@John M
We would need lots and lots of big new and beautiful walls to keep them out but I'm sure Trump would make them pay for it.
1
CA is the world’s fifth largest economy.
7
Like his base of Mensa members, the draft dodging genital grabbing colluder must not know how our Socialist Federal Tax System works.
See California pays a buck in but only gets back .75¢.
Where does the difference go?
It goes to pay the bills of insolvent red states like mitch mcconnell's kentucky...and in fact most of the old south.
Like we live in a socialist sewer.
I really enjoy reminding the anti-socialist geniuses who watch fox that without socialism, the insolvent south would be, say it with me, "Gone with the Wind."
88
I trust the NYT is working on a story to compare cost and progress with those of Japan's system of trains.
6
Trump needs the funds to build his Folly. By hook or by crook!
2
"Given that acknowledgment, the official said, the administration had a responsibility to taxpayers to “cancel the financial support for this boondoggle.”"
By that yardstick, the administration has a responsibility to taxpayers to "cancel the costly boondoggle" created by its "Tax Cuts and Jobs Act" of 2017, a colossal transfer of wealth from the middle class to the most richest Americans and corporations.
146
@ChristineMcM
The middle class received a tax cut. They are not the ones complaining. Time for wealthy state residents to check their privilege.
4
@AACNY. Hmmmm have been reading about many middle class having big and surprising tax bills under yournsomcalled “tax cut” and complaining quite a bit.
14
@AACNY - Time for wealthy state residents to check their privilege.
So says AACNY from, well, wealthy NY!
A state with home owning middles class residents, which like many others, also pay state income taxes received a large tax INCREASE under Trump so that truly wealthy could get a tax break.
3
Any chance we can expect repayment from Trump for the money he owes the IRS? Can we get repayment for his excessive trips to play golf over the past two years? Shouldn't he pay some sort of carbon tax on the CO2 emissions from his hair spray?
128
@David Westcott. Give it a rest. How many times did Obama play golf and make trips to Hawaii - with a separate plane for his wife - during his terms. Should he too repay these costs of is it only TDS at work here?
1
@Thomas Smith
Obama took 328 vacation days in 8 years, spending most of them in Massachusetts, Chicago and Hawaii and costing the tax payers an average of $1.1 million a month.
As of February 5th, I believe, Trump has vacationed at one of his properties 222 times.
Trump's trips to Mar-a-Lago cost $3.4 million each, with a significant portion of that going right into Trump's pocket.
There's no comparison between Obama and Trump. Your "whataboutism" fails.
8
77-100 billion for a train that goes from San Fran to LA, doesn't even leave the state - but 6 billion to shore up the border is a waste of money?
Or is the real reason one of 2 things? We don't want Trump to have a win, even though it protects America, or we ignorantly think open borders is a good thing.
Which is it?
Because whining over 6 billion for the border, but supporting this rail that costs 15 times as much makes zero sense.
44
@Sports Medicine
You have cracked the code.
2
@Sports Medicine. And that Second Avenue travesty? For THREE train stops? Tell me more...
3
@Sports Medicine Trump's wall is a chunk of concrete, which will create no wealth for anyone except red state contractors.
A bullet train, where you can zip from LA to San Fran or back in less than an hour, will create enormous wealth. People will be able to commute many miles from their home. Goods will be whisked around the state in a fraction of the time, with less pollution, and carnage from road accidents. Business between the two cities will explode. Unless you've lived in California like I have, you have no idea what a miracle this would be fo the state,
12
Just when we desperately need a high-speed rail system that can run on green energy that would create jobs, make us competitive with China and the European Union, and help the environment, our great Builder-in-Chief says, "No deal! Give me my marbles back."
38
@Paul Wortman The EU and China are going into recession with huge unreported banking debts while the US is growing well since the tax cuts. $100 billion is too expensive, the money will never be found when you can fly LA to San F in an hour for $100. Fast trains only work economically (with current technology) with shorter distances in huge, condensed populations like in Japan. Japan bought the land in the 60s when it was cheap.
8
@Paul Wortman
OK, try this: it's 383 miles from LA to SF, and this boondoggle, at $77B has gone nowhere since it was conceived in 1998, voted into existence in 2008, and throughout numerous funding initiatives and bids, less than 50 continuous miles of the project have been completed as of this past December.
Think about how long a national system would take, how much it will cost, how many miles in length it will be, and then plug this back into how this will "make us competitive with China and the European Union, and help the environment".
Not only will "we" never see this completed, but neither will the planet's citizens see it by the 28th century.
7
@Paul Wortman
" a high-speed rail system that can run on green energy"
Seriously? "Green" energy? What is this magical "green" energy that runs the Train to Nowhere? Have California socialists invented a new kind of electron that is pulled directly from the atmosphere into the train's engine, releasing nothing but pure drinking water and rainbows?
8
I like it. California is out of line here on the wall, and their bill for the railway will be in the hundreds of billions over budget. They are vulnerable to military cut-backs as well.
12
@Ryan
Trump has a budget???!??
Since when.
1
@R it's amusing that California is being fiscally punished by Trump and the GOP for its purported financial irresponsibity when the GOP Congress passed a tax "reform" act that is cratering the federal budget. And don't forget that California sends much much more in tax revenues to DC than it gets in benefits. It's the deadbeat red states that reverse t hat flow.
7
@Ryan
Funny, but it wasn't that long ago when Republicans were screaming for state's rights.
I guess that only applies when Trump's fans are encroaching on a woman's right to choose or violating federal civil rights laws.
2
Why is this administration not being stopped un its tracks? Why is the legislative branch so afraid to take action and remove this nematode from office? How is it possible that with all the evidence (proof) there is even a single person in this nation who trusts, supports, and believes him?
13
@ellen That tax bill for the rich, and right-wing judicial appointments. In a nutshell.
1
The single most purely partisan administration in the history of this country. Unbelievable.
54
@Mike
I would argue that Speaker Pelosi holds that title. After all it is she who is spearheading the mafia-like vendetta against a sitting president.
Trump has exposed the speaker's politics.
1
@AACNY She was elected to represent one of 43 congressional districts. He was elected to represent the entire country. Secondly, she is seeing to it that the House of Representatives is fulfilling its constitutional duty of oversight of the executive branch. I know you're not used to it after two years of (in Devin Nunes' words) the House defending the executive branch, but she is doing exactly what the constitution commands she do.
4
The takeaway from Trump's woodshed discipline approach to California is - 'If you don't vote for me fuggetaboud Federal funding.'
Actually, it's worse than that - his model for Federal state project funding is closer to protection racketeering...'Nice business you got here - be a shame to see it burned down...'
Donald J. Trump brings mob-think to the Executive branch of government - but with extraordinary means to silence the judiciary - hobble law enforcement - compromise individuals and their departments - hand plum roles to rotten characters - and lie with virtual impunity. The testing of the Constitution and it's survival is upon the nation. The Senate has become a joke - Mitch McConnell has adopted the role of consigliere and the expression 'First Family' has been flipped to 'Family First'.
81
Must be the administration's long awaited new infrastructure plan.
4
Donald Trump's failure to disclose and divest his Trump Organization assets into a blind trust along with him putting the interests of Israel, Russia and Saudi Arabia first puts this request in proper context and perspective.
Trump's hiding his personal and family income tax returns and business records provides further evidence of criminal corrupt malign intent in all of his actions and inactions. Coupled with the fact that Hillary Clinton won 4 million more votes in California than Trump this all and only about partisan political retribution.
Trump's supporters include people who approve of and support his misogyny, racism and xenophobia. And those who were and still are willing to overlook those faults.
14
If Ca comes up with a plan for high speed trains to be fueled by coal, then the president would be shoveling money their way.
10
Maybe the governor should declare a state of emergency and get that money anyway.
16
Hyperloop will make rail obsolete anyway
3
@Igor Hyperloop will *never* get built. The California high speed rail cost blowout didn’t happen because of a spike in the cost of steel or concrete. It happened because of uncontrollable environmental compliance and right of way acquisition costs, and more importantly, the associated litigation and delay. Hyperloop will see the same unbudgeted costs times 100.
3
@Igor
I suspect I am old fashioned but I can't imagine wanting to get inside what amounts to a windowless coffin placed in a welded steel tube devoid of air.
But then again I can't even read stories about people trapped without an attack of claustrophobia even if I am sitting on a beach with miles of nothing all around me.
Certainly the same thing was said of air travel, and many remain nervous of the obvious things that can go wrong, but in most situations there are options and there is someone at the controls who has options. And at a bare minimum it has escape doors.
@Igor
All the more reason to build it as quickly as possible.
I've loved this country for each one of my 68 years, but even during the 60s, the institution of the Presidency was never this far out of hand.
15
California's high-speed train line, another fine example of US taxpayers' money at work.
Oh, wait, the high-speed line is being canceled or curtailed.
Of course American taxpayers want to see their unused/misused money back from California.
16
@Mal T except we pay in far more than we get back to supports states like kansas who dont pay their fair share of fed taxes
Californians are paying $12 bil more in taxes this year due to the repeal of the State and Local Tax Exemption. They've already paid $2.5 bil several times over.
8
Ha! Individual Californians paying their required federal income taxes (which have gone up now that the federal government is no longer picking up the tab for progressive taxation schemes so the state tax laws have to stand on their own merits) does not discharge California state’s obligation to also pay back federal money they flushed down the toilet, but nice try.
3
This is a typical mean spirited and vindictive move by Trump, no question. But in general, I would like to see the Federal government get out of the business of providing money to states in general. Either the states themselves should fund and control projects or the federal government should. And projects funded by the federal government should benefit all 50 states.
4
California has the fifth largest economy in the world and accounts for 12% of the population of the United States.They have two Democratic Senators and forty six Democratic members of the House. If Trump keeps up his war on California Republicans will disappear completely including Kevin McCarthy.Trump’s strategy is always revenge instead of building bridges.Intimidation of California will not work for Trump.
27
@Janet Michael Republicans gave up on California long ago, since the 90s the Dems own it. No lost votes by taking the money back. Republican pres may never win California again.
2
Trump should give back the tax credit he bought in the Casino Bankruptcy which allowed hime to pay no taxes for years. Pay your taxes , and then complain.
22
California accepted money for a specific project. Now, they are cancelling that project. It's no different than when someone receives money for one purpose and then changes their mind about making that purchase. Since the money won't be used as intended, it should be returned. Otherwise, it appears to be a "bait and switch" scam being run by California.
14
@MarathonRunner. Who said it was cancelled? Did you read the article?
@MarathonRunner . You mean like repurposing money allocated by Congress for military projects or hurricane relief to build a wall?
What this actually; Mr. Newsom playing for political coverage in the face of a spectacular failure by California Democrats in the undertaking of the High Speed rail project. The scaled back line will go from Merced to Bakersfield or as Californians are saying, from no place to no place at a cost of $60 Billion over a topography like a pool table.
10
Projected defense budget for 2019- $716 billion, which thanks to Trump's cost saving measures (Trump change) is only $200 billion more than 2017.
Trump will make the EU cover the increase.
This is just more trashing California because the state generally doesn't support him or his policies.....like his disparaging comments about the 9th circuit, forest management after the horrendous wildfires, sanctuary cities, the environment....on and on.
Well, if we're talking poor planning and poor project management, I'd like the DOE to give the taxpayers back the $8 billion that it spent on the Mixed Oxide (MOX) Energy project that it pulled the plug on with Trump's blessing last December, at about 2/3 complete.
It was, however, the favorite pork barrel of S.C. Senators Graham and Wilson who helped keep it going nowhere at great taxpayer expense so they could say they helped keep jobs in this backward state. But, that's ok here...it's Trump country, so of course poor management doesn't count.
1
@EBD
Probably a lot fewer jobs per dollar also.
Determining the feasibility of CA's high-speed rail project is besides the point. The news here is that Trump immediately retaliated against a state that has sued him for executive overreach in declaring a fake emergency to keep an absurd campaign promise opposed by most Americans. By being vindictive and placing political gain over the well-being of U.S. citizens, Trump is once again abusing the power of the presidency.
But Trump's day of reckoning is coming. This deed adds another paving stone on the path to his impeachment.
7
At this point it's reasonable to ask about all Trump's actions, "How does serve the interests of a hostile foreign power?" And it's clear a hostile foreign power would like to see the US hampered by terrible public transportation and an ongoing dependence on fossil fuels, plus internal divisions. A hostile foreign power would also rejoice to see us waste money on a wall, deregulate environmental toxins, let our infrastructure crumble, impoverish our middle class, muzzle and distrust our free press, and wreck our worldwide alliances.
"President" Trump, whose legitimacy in office we have good reason to question, acts consistently to harm and weaken this country. I've come to believe this is his intention.
And the assertion of emergency powers won't be confined to the wall. Emergency powers give a president astonishing and dangerous authority over bank accounts, communications, putting troops in the streets, and declaring US citizens to be terrorists (for, say, joining a political protest against emergency powers).
Will the Supreme Court side with him? He seems very sure they will. Kavanaugh was surely picked to protect Trump from any check in his power.
We're in big trouble.
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@Portia
Yeah, I’ve wondered if Trump is merely misguided or rather intentionally trying to wreck our government. It may be that he is so focused on getting his own way that he just doesn’t care for the consequences.
1
Didn't Trump write off money losses from his bankruptcies on his income tax, and who paid for that, the tax payers and American citizens. Trump should return all that money to the Treasury.
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High Speed Rail is the future and a sensible way to move people minus the more polluting planes (see Europe and Asia). This project in this state now makes sense - this portion is the "middle" of three sections and would connect SF/Sac and LA/SD. The project serves as a model for tha nation, provides jobs, and again is where we must head towards the future. The level of immaturity and lack of American leadership from this POTUS knows no bounds or limits as shown in the petulant response to CA saying NO to the past and YES to the future.
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Doubtful if California will meet obligation for matching funds so therefore the issue of additional Federal funds is moot. However it is obviously punitive to request the return of already granted and spent monies on the high speed rail project. In any event tieing the issues of local transportation needs and National security issues is patently political.
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As pointed out by one reader, high-speed rail is in use and available in many countries in the EU and in the great enemy country China! But we live in a car culture and public transportation is the enemy. We could do something about it but . . .
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@Jordan Davies, $77 Billion, and it doesn't get built. You could build 20 international airports, or 36 fully functional hospitals, or 130 state-of-the-art high schools for that money.
9
What’s today’s $cost of building the interstate highway system? How’s that compare to building high speed rail today? How can Germany, Japan, France, China, Belgium and other countries afford to build their TGV type rail systems? Same as we did when we built the interstate highway system. Build it.
1
This is actually confusing because the president has repeatedly said (for what that’s worth) that he supports infrastructure projects (jobs!), which is a popular bi-partisan initiative, and as the governor noted, there are active jobs on this project that would be lost if funds were rescinded. Why not attach his name to a real project of modern technology that could benefit people’s lives and not a piece of medieval technology intended only to impede people’s movement?
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@philip
Maybe infrastructure spending should start with repairing the pothole infested inadequate two-lane California state highway instead of wasting it on a Democrat fantasy train.
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@philip It's not confusing at all. The President is a liar and a con artist.
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This move is shameful and disgusting and moreso just another deliberate distraction, as is all that comes out of the sinking WH. Clearly Trump seeks fealty from states and feels he can just yank back money for whatever reason and on any whim of the moment that crosses his feeble mind. For Trump to be citing cost overruns is rich, indeed, given he routinely stiffed all his contractors back when he was making art of so many so-called construction deals. Anything Trump says is bizarro world, so we can expect he's going to be very unsuccessful with the lawsuit and it will be a protracted case. This, though, is the least of his worries....
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@Maridee
Most of Trumps projects are completed ahead of schedule and under budget. He's a man that demands results, and refuses to pay for incompetence.
See Wollman Rink as an example.
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@Sports Medicine
My father was in the construction business. Neither he nor any of his colleagues would work with the Trumps. The did NOT pay their bills.
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@Sports Medicine
Yeah, great job Trump. What next, a high school athletic complex?
1
Maybe Trump should focus his efforts on building a border wall around California and New York instead.
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@Shay,
After those walls are built does California and New York still have to pay for insolvent economic jokes like tennessee?
Because if not, build away!
We solvent blue staters are sick and tired of loser red states stealing our state's tax revenues.
Pay your own bills for once proud southerners.
6
Even better, build one around TN
2
The cost of "high speed" rail is just too high. Just think how much more benefit would be achieved if the same amount of money were spent on commuter rail systems to get people to & from work.
Merced has a population of about 82,000 people and Bakersfield has a population of about 840,000 people. How much daily traffic could there be?
It is unlikely this project will ever reach into any of the major population centers and if it did the cost by the time it was done would be astronomical.
I would like know the original cost estimate when the project was approved.
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@Bob in Pennsyltucky
It seems obvious that the stretch between Merced and Bakersfield was only the first installment of a segment of the entire system. You have to start somewhere. And it was likely easier and less expensive then the more populace terminating sections with additional terrain and rights of way issues.
If we wanted to do it we could. They've done it Europe with challenging terrains and rights of way and property issues that are centuries and if not eons old as compared to California which is under a constant state of rebuilding where structures over 50 years are considered "old".
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@Bob in Pennsyltucky
Funny, did they said the same thing about the moon shot? The benefits thereafter continue to pay. How is it that we no longer can think big and do big things anymore. I always enjoyed that saying,"Go big or go home!" It's what MAGA!!!
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@Bob in Pennsyltucky
Oh, how much daily traffic? You've never been there, have you?
There's LOTS of traffic there.
10
Trump is the most unpatriotic and vindictive President ever. He passed the tax scam that unfairly increases the taxes of blue states like California by removing SALT deductions . Now he wants to harm California, our most populous state with 40 million Americans, by demanding that California pay back money budgeted for high speed rail systems that should be the future of a modern efficient transportation system. He seems maddeningly bent on harming Californians, almost seeming sadistically to get pleasure in punishing them. Is he working for our enemies?
Yes I remember he loves Putin and his conspiracy with him is fake news. It is about as fake as his claim that he was going to rebuild America with vast infrastructure plans. Really!
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@IN
I live in NY. The SALT deduction affects me. It allowed states to raise taxes with impunity, because whatever your state and city tax bill, it was deducted off your federal. So liberal states could offer free everything and theyre residents wouldn't feel it, since it would get lopped of their federal taxes.
Not any more. Now they have to charge for what they spend, and their residents will see it.
Makes it a bit tougher to pay for all those illegal immigrants in your sanctuary city, doesn't it?
8
@Sports Medicine Sorry were the local deductions from Gross Income or from the tax due itself? If the former, the local deductions would only reduce the pain of local taxes by a percentage — the percentage of the income tax. The remainder would stay ‘paid’.
2
@Sports Medicine Exactly.
It's my belief that the prime mover in this petty example of presidential "leadership" is Mitch McConnell.
The Senate Majority Leader's wife is the Transportation Secretary, Elaine Chao. She doubtless is following her husband's orders to spike the bullet train in California because the Kentucky Senator owes the president a favor. It more than clear why the president wants to embarrass California in this matter but what other way of diverting funds from other earmarked projects than by shooting a shaft of displeasure and disapproval over the state's governor and attorney general for their continued pushbacks against No. 45's draconian plans for a wall?
America is fast-falling behind other nations in high-speed rail efficiency. The travel magazine Condé Nast recently published a list of the ten-fastest trains in the world. In what is no surprise, China has the top two spots, followed by Japan and later, Korea. Germany and the EU make the list as does Italy and, of all places, Saudi Arabia.
This president wishes to see us continue to be mired in early 20th century infrastructure. He hasn't the intelligence to understand that nothing man-made lasts forever and needs constant upgrading and improvement as time goes by. I guess the short answer is that he does not think the world should change. Neither do McConnell or his wife, Secretary Chao.
We're slowly sliding back into a primitive era for the movement of people and goods. Making America Lousy Again.
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@Red Sox, ‘04, ‘07, ‘13, ‘18
Who'd she know to get HER job?
2
@Red Sox, ‘04, ‘07, ‘13, ‘18
Right on!
Thanks for opening my eyes. Had not thought of that motivation.
The Confederate son of Alabama aka Addison Mitchell McConnell,Jr. is malignly focused on reversing the outcomes of the Civil War and Civil Rights eras with his drawling mumbling whistling " Dixie" while waving the " Stars and Bars" secessionist methods.
10
Trump engages in government by scattergun, his focus obscured by his madness and inability to see the world in the nuanced shades of grey as it truly appears. This vendetta against high-speed rail is going forward only because no friend who supported his 2016 election or business associate is among the contractors.
10
@Scott Kay Please tell me you are being sarcastic. The majority of Californians are getting hit hard by 45’s “tax cuts”. No more SALT. California, and for that matter, most Blue States are getting hit hard with the elimination of these deductions. Your welcome.
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@Lambnoe
Or maybe the State of California should just tax and spend less.
‘You can say I’m a dreamer, but I’m not the only one,’ etc...
4
@Lambnoe
Your privilege is showing. The majority of Californians do not get a tax increase under the new tax law. In order for that to be the case you first have to have substantially above average income (the kind that causes one to pay lots in taxes to the state and local governments that can no longer be written off). Bear in mind a huge chunk of the adult population, like over 40 percent in the US, doesn’t pay a dime in income taxes because they don’t earn enough. If the progressive taxes in California are fair and worth being paid for the progressive spending priorities of the state, why are the low state tax jurisdictions effectively having to subsidize it (their residents don’t get to write anything off, what makes Californians so special)? Makes no sense since these states, generally in middle america, have less wealth than the coastal states that are being subsidized. California has plenty of cash coming in. They should balance their own books. No more federal handouts!
Never in my life have I seen a supposedly American "president" viciously go after American citizens and punish them based on what state they live in. I know his crazy wall-eyed supporters have no problem cheering his lie for years that Mexico will pay for the wall even though it's become we are going to force taxpayers to pay for it, we're going to force veterans to pay for it, we're going to force disaster victims to pay for it. This is all fine with his hardcore base who has shrunk to a minority of insane evangelicals who think Trump was sent by God to help bring about the rapture. It's worrying that both Pence and Pompano are both part of these insane doomsday "Christians" because they really do have the power To get us in the next war. Which has been made easier by Trump's aids and their effort to sell nukes To Saudi Arabia . To any smug republicans out there be careful what you sell your soul for.
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@Blackcat66
The 2017 tax bill was designed, by eliminating or limiting certain deductions, to punish middle class tax payers in places like CA, NY, NJ and MA that pay high property and state taxes but also enjoy a better level of services and schools with those state tax payments.
The botched management and communication of changes to withholding tables extended the punishment to many families in the Trump base, but hey, thats collateral damage to MAGA...
26
@Max J Dog
Be honest. Those affected by the SALT deduction loss are not "middle class" but in the top 20%.
Average US property taxes are under $5,000. A middle class American family with children will benefit from the higher standard deduction, lower tax rates and doubled child tax credit.
This is what progressives claim to want except when it costs them anything directly.
That's fake news: First, along with the SALT limitation, the tax rates were lowered. Furthermore, many folks paying more than $ 10,000 in SALT already saw a portion of their deductions denied through the Alt Min tax; whether you'll see a net tax increase is a matter of one's own particular facts and circumstances. In any event, after having seen Cuomo and his cohorts squander many opportunities to cut the budget and raise tax revenues(i.e., via the fracking ban, the Amazon fiasco and the over-reliance on Wall Street to name a few), I'm happy to take one for the team if it means sticking it to them.
I live in the UK and I cannot believe this article.
We are fighting HS2 a high speed railway in the UK which will connect London to all the major cities in the North. Even here in a country with an extensive passenger rail system we cannot see the value (high cost) of high speed rail versus simply improving our existing network.
This project made no sense from the start because people in the US (except for the East coast) do not ride trains. I have been to California numerous times (I have relatives living in the State). None of my family living in California have any desire to ride the trains, high speed or otherwise.
It should not have been built especially at such an outlandish price.
The final insult to the American people is the only part that is now due to be finished (for over $ 77 billion) runs from nowhere to nowhere thru some of the most beautiful farmland in all of the US. How is this ever environmentally friendly.
Only California could waste money in such an manner.
The only good thing is that California makes the UK look a little less stupid.
23
@George Johnson. Have you considered that California DOESN'T have an existing extensive rail system already and is large enough to fit your whole country in?
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@George Johnson
because people in the US (except for the East coast) do not ride trains.
People in the US don't "ride" trains BECAUSE there are no trains to ride. Amtrak simply does not "go" everywhere. There are also LOTS of places with very few people per square mile.
12
Trains work in the UK(and Europe in general) because it is much more densely populated than the US. As such, the volume of ridership( and fares collected) justifies the cost of investment.
Here however, revenues from fares on rides from nowhere to nowhere will never cover the investment. That's the case even in the relatively densely-populated NE corridor.
3
"Mr. Batory wrote that the federal funds were being pulled because the California High-Speed Rail Authority had “failed to make reasonable progress on the project.”"
Does this mean Democrats get to claw back Trump because he's failed to build his wall?
85
@John from PA
Remember, it's the Republicans with the "claws"...
1
A bit off topic but who dreams up this stuff? Even if Trump were half the genius he claims to be he can't possibly be aware of and weaponize all the minutiae his administration comes up with to attack those who won't tow the line or to fund projects nobody wants. Is it Stephen Miller? Probably plays a big role. Elaine Chao? Mulvaney? Don't these people better things to do?
22
US is littered with the skeletons of canceled, partially-finished nuclear plants. The total cost to investors and customers of these incomplete investments is many times the few billion that will be written off as the train in the middle of nowhere sinks to oblivion. Time to cut the taxpayer's losses and wish Governor Moonbeam, whose strategy to force the US Government to pay for his boondoggle hasn't worked, a fond adieu.
10
I dare you to investigate who, year after year, pays for majority of the federal government.
1
@JPE, Except for Georgia Power which is pushing on for two nuclear plants at Plant Voegle.
Of course Mr Trump would retaliate. He’s childish. He can always put the money towards the wall.
21
Right from the instant that this appeared on the ballot 10 years back it was clear that this was a project that was poorly conceived and where the only winners would be a staff that would receive bloated wages and a lifetime of pensions. By no measure was this less expensive than air travel. The math was cooked from the start and other than for die hard believers, the project made no sense to anyone else. Its sad that this waste of money still continues in some form as the train between nowhere. California needs a lot of investment in infrastructure. Wasting $100B on a bullet train that will never make economic sense is about the worst way to invest in "infrastructure".
19
@CommonSenseEconomics . Such a project should never have been put on the ballot for a popular vote. The initiative was under-specified and badly cost analyzed, the original $33B budget went to more than $100B almost as soon as the ink dried.
I have ridden Amtrak from San Jose to San Diego 15x, and it takes 12h and suffered 3+ hour delays 6x., incl. several delays that would apply to a modern rail system...tracks flooding and fires ahead.
One time, we got to Ventura, and they told us to get off the and find our own way to destinations north due to a fire ahead. . (to be fair, they DID give us a refund).
The sense around LA is "improve the local commuter rail, Metrolink" before building HSR.
Time to pause and think again about HSR in CA.
This is nothing more and nothing less than high-speed revenge. Get money back for money not even doled out yet?
9
To all the Trump appointees who are no longer with him - aren’t you glad you got fired? Working for someone with the temperament of a two year old, “give me or I’ll throw a tantrum,” could not have been pleasant.
Now he’s mad at California. Tomorrow the wrath will fall elsewhere.
38
The Cascadia concept gains traction under the aggression of this illegitimate presidency.
3
I think there is a precedent for this: Christie never paid back the money for the disbanded rail project in NJ to Obama.
24
We have been waiting for so long for this train it will give opportunity to live in a affordable area and work in a higher paying area it's a win win for everyone who lives in California or visits Visitors can get to places they want to visit in a more affordable way while seeing our great state
32
This project was a joke from the start. I am angry that I am paying for this political graft. I want my money back. California must pay the money back to the Federal Government.
28
So should all the blue states demand their money back from those red state welfare recipients? You do know that California only receives 75 cents for every dollar of federal tax paid? And your beloved red states get way more in federal spending that they pay in federal tax. Please tell me you would support a law that said a state could receive no more in federal spending than they have paid.
218
@Chris,
You should know that California spends more on welfare than any other state - $103 billion per year. The next closest is New York with $61 billion per year. I don't think California would be happy with your suggestion to give back their welfare money.
8
@Scott K,
Trust me confederate, you aren't paying squat.
California on the other hand does pay...handsomely...for the shiftless south to remain in this Union.
Have some class for once and let them spend the money they raise to build a non-fossil fuel transportation system.
Southerners might not care what their kids breathe, but Americans do.
Now go back and wait for California to give you more handouts.
22
The cynical and unlikely response that I would love to see--"Fine, and in the meantime please return to us (Californians) the tax revenue that we have sent to the Federal Government.
376
@PJM Yes, that would be great. The states that voted for Trump are for the most part recipients of charity from those that voted for Hillary. They deserve our pity, but we should stop financing their ignorance and bigotry.
6
I agree
Even if this were not the most egregious case of tit-for-tat, Trump and the GOP have shown zero interest for shelling out federal funds for infrastructure improvements of any kind. Coal Mines and Border Walls- Yes! High-speed trains - No! Those are for those “socialist” countries in Europe and elsewhere.
233
@Susan Frankly, I'd rather be in Paris than Palo Alto.
2
The Governor’s comments were extremely foolish and ridiculously timed. Why on earth, when the Green New Deal was just announced with a high speed rail component, would Newsom seem to be pulling the plug on the rail project? A railroad from Merced to Bakersfield makes absolutely no sense making the federal action appear to have a basis. We need rail in this country, although more conventional speed rail like Brightine in Florida with incremental development of high speed makes sense. But California already committed, and the whole thing needs to be built. Newsom needs to retract what he said and commit to finishing the project or risk paying the feds back and having a huge white elephant. More importantly, California needs high speed rail. The state can’t just keep building highways and airports that are increasingly grid locked with the attendant pollution. His comments were most unfortunate.
11
Of course Trump is this petty. And of course Trump would have only done this to California. Safe move to give something to his base, especially after his humiliating defeat over his pointless shutdown, and the imminent immediate shutdown of his emergency declaration by Democrats who will simply use the ruling that Republicans won against Obama as precedent and viola, in the end trump will have gained nothing, suffered multiple humiliations in public and court, and I'm sure California will just raise taxes on the poor to raise the missing billions.
23
Looks like another Trump hostage taking. “Give me my wall and I won’t mess with your project.” Too bad high-speed rail improves the economy and the wall does what exactly? We need a lot of infrastructure projects like this one all over the place. Walls? Not so much.
265
@Denis No, it is the realization that the project was ill-conceived, was going to waste money on some "politicians" pet project and will never get built. There are better ways of deploying infrastructure.
Spending 77B on a useless pet project is not the way to do it.
5
Maybe Phil but the timing and Trump's own words say it isn't as simple as that. It's the Don's usual petty payback.
17
@Marie ok but that is irrelevant in the long run.
1