What about on the tarmac?
The weird unrelated straws that Trump supporters are grasping at and non-sequitor bad analogies just go to show two things: the president really can probably shoot a man and not lose his base, and Trump supporters lack the historical context to understand the relative importance of events.
26
To speak with a hostile head of state in private and keep it secret IS "collusion." Trump has severely undermined American security again and again, all the while pointing to a rhetorical border wall as the only thing protecting us from foreign threats. Trump himself, from his public actions alone, the most severe national threat America faces.
17
Citizens may never know what Trump disclosed to Putin in their private exchanges in Germany, Vietnam, Helsinki, Finland or Buenos Aires. As noted, President Trump took his interpreter’s notes afterward and ordered him not to disclose what he heard to anyone. Fifty years from now, if the U.S., Canada, England and Western European nations remain standing as strong democracies, the transcripts may be located in an obscure file in Russian archives.
Until then, the NYTimes is chronicling the outcomes of their meetings -- a hasty withdrawal from Syria, pulling out of the climate pact, pulling out of the Iranian nuclear agreement, providing internal polling data to Russia, disclosing Israeli intelligence to the Russian Foreign Minister in the Oval Office, weakening NATO, Britain in disarray, trade disruptions from tariffs and a government shutdown. Add tax breaks to break the bank and weaken the military.
This more than management incompetence. The combination of Trump's actions and inactions clearly show Putin's goals and Trump's complicity.
Treason, pure and simple.
19
Mr. Trump’s behavior has not changed in 40 years of doing business. While he never needed a job description at The Trump Organization, a job description as President is necessary and the only people who can “make” him do his job are the Republican leaders.
4
When the NY Times starts to reveal what several presidents have said to the one party dictators, foreign CEO's and organized crime leaders of China and Latin American countries for decades then the NY Times editors and their stable of writers will be justified in demanding to know what Putin and Trump said during 6 visits.For if its not important for us to know what shady deals were made that impoverished millions of Americans by open borders wage-killing flooding our labor markets via not enforcing our immigration laws and increasing legal immigration quotas by 500%, enabled the shipping of 8 million manufacturing jobs overseas, allowed China to "free trade" slap 100% tariffs on made US goods and steal trillions via intellectual property theft and counterfeiting of brand names. Well then the trivial damage that Russia has done to the average Americans during that 4 decade period should be of negligible interest or value. And of course we all know the really important difference between Russia, and China plus the rest of the 3rd world is don't we! China, Mexico et al have 100's of millions on no rights slave-wage workers that our 1% will commit any number of treasons to access - so they can make trillions in unearned profits via worker abuse in factories overseas or as mass immigration quota - illegal immigrants imported into the USA. So apparently what Russia needs to do to get 'equal treatment' is to put millions of Russians into slave-wage factory Gulags like China has.
4
What about all the apparent phone calls? With Trump peppering Kremlin talking points uninvited over the past couple years as reported by Maddow and other news outlets, it really does feel like Putin is directing and feeding the conman.
As recently reported, the withdrawal from NATO would be Putin’s dream come true. Putin’s Puppet has been threatening that from before he got into office.
Can someone at NYT dig around and see about the communication channels between Putin and the US crime boss sitting in the White House? Another back channel? Phone calls directly to Putin?
It is beyond obvious that the man in the White House is being directed by Russia. Re-reporting on the two planes mysteriously meeting in I think the Carolina’s during the campaign is also worth revisiting. I believe the Russian plane was Deripaska’s.
6
Trump loves Putin and his autocratic KGB, bone-saw wielding back round.
There should be little doubt that the situation we find ourselves in now is as transparently treasonous and dangerous as the country has ever faced. Nixon May have been involved in some dirty tricks and even some criminal acts, but that’s chump change compared to the corruption and criminal acts that are going in now. What is the penalty for treason? I’d say get “the chair” ready.
2
What if this is literally all just a real estate deal?
3
How does this continue?
Why are Republicans now proud Putinists?
4
If Trump is not a witting collaborator with Putin, he certainly is a dupe and sap. In any case, he manifestly does not have the knowledge, experience, temperament, and character to be president. And, in an act of historic irresponsibility and cynicism, the Republican Party deemed this man to be suited to be president! Meanwhile, as the Trump disaster unfolds, Republicans are too frightened of their simple-minded, ignorant primary voters to speak the obvious truth about a man who is unsuited for ANY public office.
2
Do Donald and Vlad have their own spot
Where they meet alone out of earshot
To make secret accords
That are leading us towards
Donald turning into Vlad’s mascot?
5
The French yellow jackets are marching in the streets to upset the stability of the French government, inspired and urged on by Russia's bots; the Brits who ate the Russian Brexit bait are stewing in their own juice. Citizens of the USA are waiting for the Russian shills to destroy what is left of our democracy. We should be marching in the streets to overthrow this illegitimate sham. Instead, we are watching Rome burn. Hamburgers, anyone?
8
Perhaps he simply wants to avoid more leaks. These conspiracy theories are going over the top.
Take it to be exactly what it looks like, he wanted to have a private conversation without leaks.
If he was going to be on ANYONE's payroll, wouldn't it make sense to be on China's, lol? They have more money.
Please don't run with that as a new conspiracy theory.
2
I think I can imagine the following is one of the conversation if not the conversation every time.
Putin: Donnie, don't forget the amount of money the owe me and my friends.
Trump: No Sir, that is why I am working very hard to make sure my line of hotels and golf courses will generate enough cash to pay you back.
Putin: More than that. Donnie, you don't want the US public to know that.
Trump: No Sir. I am doing my best to hide it from the rest of world. I will make sure our conversation will never, at least as long as I am sleeping and watching Fox and Friends in the WH, so they will not see the light of days.
1
There is another angle to confer that Trump is in cahoots with Russia. If we observe, Trump doesn't seem to exhibit similar behavior of concealing his meetings and meeting transcripts with other world leaders as is the case with Putin. Like any other spy/asset of a foreign government, he tries to divert and distract his actions with double speak to prove that he is tough on Russia.
For example, there are many instances where Trump imposed sanctions to appear tough and followed by removing those without any validity. Sanctions on Oleg Deripaska, Russian industrial giant Rusal are examples. Likewise, he sounds tough by speaking against EU Pipeline, stays silent on Ukraine and so on. He promotes Russian agitprop that Russia invaded Afghanistan to prevent terrorism, or the comments on Montenegro’s aggression or the Poland’s planned invasion of Belarus etc. We can draw many parallels like this, and his actions unequivocally speak volumes of his double dealings with Russia.
6
How many meetings does it take to remind trump of all the Russian loans that are propping him up and that his job is to destroy America's relationship with its allies and trading partners? It seems to me that he has completely accomplished the latter. Everything trump has done internationally benefits Putin and severely hurts the US.
5
The Republican Party supports Trump because he is the "hand with a pen" that they have long sought - someone who has been perfectly willing to sign off on whatever they wanted in exchange for the pomp, circumstance and power of being "the President." Trump has only the most superficial, lazy interest in policy and politics. He is in it for the money and the attention and his ignorance of world politics, foreign policy and domestic policy actually makes him the perfect "hand" for the GOP for he needs them as much as they need him: He could never have come up with policies, speeches, staffing or judicial nominations on his own. It's a symbiotic relationship and it is why the Republicans refuse to acknowledge or deal with the fact that Trump is a compromised president likely beholden to Putin.
This is borne out by the quote here from Luke Coffey, foreign policy minion at the Heritage Foundation. Coffey says he was "disappointed" by Trump's Helsinki meetings/behavior with Putin, but that he puts his "disappointment" aside because he is "most interested in what the actual policies are coming out of the administration."
The policies he refers to are, of course, Heritage Foundation policies. So he's not interested in Trump; he's interested in himself and his dogma.
This is what we are up against: Republican self-interest that has become so fanatical that they are willing to brush aside treasonous behavior (and also use funneled Russian campaign donations) to get what they want.
9
It is very difficult to believe the U.S. Senate allows this situation to continue. We are inches away from dictatorship. Three hundred plus million American souls in the hands of one emotionally unstable person, with no official record of what he says to the leaders of foreign powers. Beyond scary.
8
Of course, Obama tried to have a secret meeting with Mevedev and Putin but his secrecy was compromised by an open mike. My response to that was, "So what?" Can't our presidents have secret meetings? I guess if "no" is the answer I have a skewed view of our political system.
1
I think Putin is helping him with his super secret plan to defeat terrorism. Remember he said he couldn’t share details of his plan because then the terrorists would counter.
Putin is also helping him design the best most sciency healthcare system that will also be the cheapest plus beautiful.
He is also getting super secret advice on how to win the trade war with China. We will have buckets and buckets of money in the treasury to build super clean and beautiful coal plants plus transparent concrete wall that is art and beautiful.
If he doesn’t keep it secret his enemies (the Demoncrats) will ruin it.
He just LOVES America and is working so hard to save it that he had to shut it down.
We just don’t deserve this super great, gorgeous , fit, genius loving, kind President.
1
The last two years have proven that there is is no such thing as a private conversation for the president. Everything is leaked and the president’s antagonists have demonstrated ad nausea their willingness to dissemble his words in order to undermine him and his policies. No matter what he says, even in jest his words are selectively omitted, twisted and weaponized. The fact that absent any record of their conversation his detractors are so willing to insist that it was nefarious proves it. It's little wonder president Trump chose to converse with Putin alone, unprompted and unaided.
Never mind that not one of president Trumps detractors can point to one instance where Russia has gained advantage on the US during 2 years of a Trump administration. The same fools claiming he is Putins puppet ignore the adverse impact his policies have had on Russia and the strength they have given the US. Under Trumps stewardship America is now the dominant energy producer in the world. Oil and gas are the life blood of Russia. As a direct result of Trumps energy policies Russia’s ability to manipulate energy prices has been eliminated and it’s main source of revenue has been significantly reduced. That means Putin and his cronies are poorer. Strange behavior for a puppet.
Mysterious conversations aside I find it interesting that the smirk Putin always exhibited in the presence of Obama has for some reason turned into a scowl.
1
DJT may or may not be a sleeper spy for Russia. But either way Putin could not have found anyone better to advance Russia’s interests and weaken America and the West more.
2
There is little doubt that Trump in some way is compromised in his relationship with Putin/Russia by self interest (financial past, present or future), ego/narcissism and/or willful ignorance. It is highly unlikely that Trump is a Russian agent as the Russians would never hire anyone as dumb or lazy as this president. The FBI's launching of a counterintelligence investigation of Trump was justified given Trump's statements and activities relating to Putin/Russia. My guess is that the FBI has more information that they cannot share publicly that further supported the counterintelligence investigation. The core of Trump's base will never admit/acknowledge any of Trump's failings but those Republicans in Congress who continue to support and shield this president will come to regret that they lacked the spine to call out the president and rein-in his activities. Of course Republicans are already extremely vulnerable as a viable political party given that they have been on the wrong side of most issues for decades.
1
I spent several years as an ombudsman and abuse/mistreatment investigator on behalf of institutionalized disabled clients of the state. I was not a sworn law enforcement officer, but my supervisor was an attorney who required us to follow procedures and produce information that would stand up in court if we determined that it was necessary to refer our findings to a prosecutor. Once an allegation was made and we accepted the case we were required to gather information as long as there were relevant unanswered questions. Some investigations were relatively simple, with little information to be gathered. But some were relatively complex, producing more questions as others were answered. The more complex the case, the longer it took. The time the Mueller investigation is taking, and the secrecy surrounding so many of some of the grand jury filings, convinces me that something extremely serious and complex has been going on. I have a feeling that the initial results, if we actually get to know about them, will make the Nixon fiasco look like no big deal in comparison. And I am actually a registered Republican. I fear for the future of the GOP, if our elected leaders don't cease attempting to minimize this President's erratic behavior.
11
I can only echo the sentiments of others on this forum about the complicity and sycophantic behavior of the republicans to what looks like potential high crimes and misdemeanors of this wanna-be dictator. I don't believe waiting for the next election cycle is a good idea. The talk about not being able to indict a sitting president is a smoke screen. Putin has something on Trump and his family that enables him to yank the strings. Hillary told us, remember, Trump would be Putin's puppet and I'd guess she knew things none of us would know.
13
@Robert Shaffer
The depressing thing is, the average American's grasp of civics -- let alone the abysmally deficient 'education' of the deplorables -- is so weak that a huge swath of the citizenry does not understand just how afoul of norms, rules and laws the current administration is running.
2
"Adamant insistence" doesn't mean a darn thing to Trump. A friend of mine used to say, "He lies like a rug." and that describes our leader to a tee. Even if the Republican minions want to believe him, the Democrats don't have to and they need to put real pressure on this dishonest and miserable man.
And how can anyone approve the policies coming out of the administration? Good heavens!
6
while the base cheers on, the comrades collude..if only the translator lady is called before the Congress...she may be just dying to tell what she heard that she couldn't believe...my guess.
1
Is there any person in the United States, other than those complicit in treason with Trump — like Mitch McConnell, Graham, etc. — who does not realize what is going on?
The hacking of the USA presidential elections; the withdraw of military units from Syria against the commitments made to our allies in the region; the removal of sanctions against Russian oligarchs, part of Little Putin's entourage; and now the possible withdraw from NATO — this is the most perfect act of betrayal by an American citizen against his country, engineered by Moscow Center and Little Putin.
Benedict Arnold will now be relegated to a second tier traitor.
First, and standing by himself in a podium of shame and deceit, is Donald Trump.
From this day forward, when someone talks about the greatest traitor in American History, they will point the finger at Donald Trump.
10
This desire to hide only points to guilt.
7
Leftists and Rightists (not to be confused with liberals and conservatives) are united in their opposition to their opposition to the United States Constitution. Bernie Sanders and Rand Paul are often on the same side:
https://rare.us/rare-politics/issues/foreign-policy/rand-paul-and-bernie-sanders-were-the-only-two-senators-to-oppose-new-sanctions-on-russia-north-korea-and-iran/
Putin, former boss of the KGB, and Jill Stein, an ultra leftist, worked together to oppose the election of Hillary Clinton.
Extremes meet.
Senator Joseph McCarthy, where are you now that we need you?
Here is what concisely needs to be in the news: Trump's son and Sr. campaign members met with Russians in secret to discuss accepting campaign help from the Russian government while also discussing the removal of Russian sanctions and lied about it. The campaign also failed to report over 1000 Russian contacts to the FBI, even after being warned. The assistance from the Russian government through social media campaigns and stolen hacked emails released through Russian cut-out Wikileaks were received later in the campaign to assist the candidate. Further, Trump himself was simultaneously secretly working on a deal for a Trump Russia Tower during his campaign while lying about it to the American people. Throughout and after winning the election, Trump has continued to deny it was the Russians who hacked the emails that were released and the social media assistance received in defiance of the findings of every American intelligence agency. When the June '16 meeting came to light via NYT Trump also gave misleading information about the subject matter. Trump has continually and furiously bashed the investigation into these matters and fired the FBI director ostensibly to provide himself relief from the investigation. Now Trump has been known to have met w/ Putin 5 times during his presidency while ignoring protocols and avoiding any written records of what was discussed w/ Putin.
Just this much information needs to be shared succintly w/ the American public.
4
Hardly a real mystery what happened in those meetings. What does Trump want? He wants a Trump hotel in Red Square, he wants the Trump brand everywhere. He was in negotiations to go into Russia but they stalled - or did it? Maybe that opened the door to Putin's plan of America's disruption. Private meetings were likely used by Mr. Putin to assure Mr. Trump that it could happen when he leaves office, should all sides be agreeable.
Those who think Trump is a Russian agent by design are probably wrong; his need for constant accolades and money left him ripe for handlers. He must've been easy to coax along, a man with many bankruptcies, TV career behind him, banks turning their backs, a joke in NY society. Here come the Russians, telling him he's as great as he thinks he is. Why wouldn't he follow them like a puppy with a chew toy?
9
If Putin had no dirt on Trump before their meetings, Putin now has tons of them from their meetings now.
this should not be a surprise, just look at trump speak for 2 min on TV, you will find a lot of materials to work with.
2
How can this be okay with Republicans? Why are they so afraid of Trump? How can this be okay with Rush Limbagh and Ann Coulter? Why do they let Trump push them around? Why do they not see that Trump is rooting for the Russians not America?
9
Is this really because the Trump administration is "secretive" or is it unknown because steps were taken to prevent "leaks" beyond White House control?
Who should know/needs to know and has that been handled correctly?
Personally, I am still waiting to find out what Obama was promising the Russians that time...
3
Odd that the critics who vehemently campaigned against Trump’s Presidency now are demanding to dictate his policies, decide and review his contacts with Russian leaders, and otherwise have the power to strip him of every Constitutional right as a private individual to express his thoughts to anyone without running them by his critics.
It’s as though, once being elected President, Trump no longer can have citizen protections as he did as Trump before his election, with 1st Amendment rights. Nor do the critics accept that Trump, according to our Constitution, is the official responsibile for creating and amending our international policies.
As for talking unihibitedly with foreign adversaries like Putin, Xi Jinping, and Mohammed Bin Salman, on Trump’s terms, isn’t it better for peace that, as his hero Winston Churchill put it, Trump chooses to “jaw-jaw” than “war-war” with them?
1
Nah. We just want him to like, you know, not sell out the country. We’re just funny that way.
4
@Bayou Houma He's not "jaw-jawing" He's kowtowing.
2
Gang GOP has proven, by what has transpired, and their lack of effective responses, to be “in it “ for their own agendas, and not that of their constituents or the Country. Trump is a means to an end. Greed has taken over our Country
4
trump supporters have two mode to defend trump:
1. you say, trump is bad. they say Hillary is bad too.
2. you say, trump behaves bad in A, they say, he behaves bad cross the board, from A to Z.
2
Both Putin and Trump swear they are not in cahoots. This seems impossible in light of Trump's actions which are in lock step with Putin's desires. The result is an ever expanding meltdown of America, the erosion of our Constitutional Democracy and the security of the free world.
As to the story that Trump is not an agent of, and controlled by, Putin I believe this is poppy cock. In support of my stance I refer you all to a previous comment made by Eric Trump. We (the Trump family and organization) do not need banks, we have RUSSIA. He later, once his father began his current run for the Republican nomination, tried to walk back from this comment.
I believe his first comment reporting Russia to be the source of their financing to be true. That alone screams that our current President, Trump, is owned and paid for by Putin and his Oligarchs. Until something is done to get a honest President - America and the free world, as we know them, are in jeopardy!
13
Why hide ? If he told Putin to leave the US elections lone, if he claimed he supported NATO, if he asked for Russia to leave Urakraine and Crimea alone, if he said sanctions will be increased and if he said that mueller will be left alone to prove he is innocent of any Russia connection then he would love to have these things public. However, if if did the opposite then ,yes, hide any and all discussion. Remember, Putins; translator also has copies that Putin has.
5
We wiil just have to ask Putin to supply us with the notes of his meetings with Trump.
4
Why would Putin do that, and void his insurance policy?
Without full documentation, Putin can claim anything he wants about what was said/agreed too by the president - whether it’s real or not. Putin could make treasonous accounts of what transpired with only the counter being the word of Trump (enough said on that). At a minimum, Trump foolishly exposed himself and our political process to further attack by Russia. That’s why you have back up of what transpired in meetings. Pretty common sense things in the aboveboard business world.
8
It’s trade, stupid. What else do you think they’d be talking about? World domination? Business deals are usually conducted in secret without anyone else in the room. There’s no nefarious intent involved. So let the President do his job without interference from political partisans and haters who don’t even know what they’re talking about.
1
@Edward The U.S. Government is not run like a business, and for good reason. Democracy requires transparency. There is no reason we should "trust" our President to negotiate privately with an adversary who handed him the election, and whom he has praised publicly.
19
@Prince Handed him the election? Russia is not capable of that. I am astounded at how many folks think Russia has the ability to effect the outcome of our elections. Trump has doubled the number of troops on the Russian border and provided greater aid to Poland and the Ukraine than Obama did. So if they did hand Trump the election it backfired in a big way.
Thanks, Prince. Here is another question:
How exactly did we find out about Secy Clinton handing Radium to the Russians - was that transparent at the time?
So, no, we don't get to know.
1
I agree with Celeste. This is a thousand times worse than 9/11. During Watergate our system of checks and balances worked--eventually. Richard Nixon, while corrupt, was nothing compared to this president. If Russia had created a playbook about how to destroy this country, they could not have executed it better than Trump. History is a harsh critic; those who stand with and protect this inept, dangerous man, I believe, will be judged even harsher than the president. They, supposedly, know better yet they are risking our way of life. The only glimmer of hope I see is the fact that everyone I know in this rural area who voted for Trump has quietly turned against him. The Republicans do not yet realize this is happening, perhaps because of "polling." You can definitely rely on polls. Just ask Hillary Clinton.
15
@A Teacher
I agree with both of you. Moreover, I can hope, along with the rest of the country, that your unscientific "polling" of your neighbors is not only accurate, but can be said of the country as a whole. Our future depends upon it.
2
And this is legal how?
3
The article doesn’t appear to address whether Trump was just as secretive in meeting other world leaders, including from other adversaries. Or were the Putin meetings handled differently?
5
Putin and his PhD military analysts have been scientifically observing our country for decades categorizing every possible target. Some are covered by nuclear weapons while others are eroded with longer-term techniques such as cultural manipulation. The goal is domination. Putin started from nothing and strategized his way to the top ranks; he is a Grand Master and Trump is his pawn.
Putin helped elect Trump, now he's keeping Trump intact while he (Putin) completes whatever he's up to with Trump's unwitting help.
Putin would never tell Trump his strategic goal but the crown jewel is the integrity of the voting machines. It's a 100% certainty that Putin, and every other adversary, has been infiltrating the private Republican companies that manufacture and manage the voting machines and their software. They might own these companies by now.
Apparently the machines were not compromised in the last election, which is exactly what one would expect - 2018 would have been a prototype or set-up run, a proof of concept in preparation for the big one in 2020.
Since Putin knows exactly what he's doing and Trump does not, Putin has been giving Trump ideas about which strings to pull, such as Syria and the Shutdown and NATO and the Wall.
Putin will have also been working alongside the Republicans to walk his strategy forward.
Trump listens because Putin has intelligently sold himself to Trump as "just giving him some friendly advice" - and Trump believes it.
4
@Fourteen
There is no collusion, which would make Putin and Trump equal partners, and no is collusion necessary.
Trump is easily manipulated by anyone who aligns with his self-interest. Bringing Trump in on your strategy would guarantee failure due to Trump's incompetence. Better to wind him up and let him think you're just helping him out.
Trump believes there's no collusion because he has no intent - everything he does is unwitting.
2
Republicans are completely responsible, since they control the Senate, which must vote to impeach a president. Does having secret meetings with our true enemy constitute high crimes? Yes, it does. Trump must be impeached, but the Repubs in the Senate are essentially condoning aiding our enemy. They are traitors, right along with Trump.
6
How can anyone be surprised at the “unprecedented” actions of someone who has no place in any governmental position, especially POTUS?
6
Negotiating the terms of our surrender.
4
CNN just posted 18 Reasons Why Donald Trump IS a Russian Asset... We already know Manafort was the mule. Mueller went on record outlining Manafort’s specific lies & Mueller is alleging Manafort & DT are still maintaining contact.... nope nothing shady here to see. Move along.
8
So at the very least President Trump failed to protect the integrity of the American side of the conversation against later manipulation by the Soviets or the Russians. It does not explain why so many Congressional Republicans have suddenly become Russian allies, if not outright assets, since the election of Trump.
9
Meetings 1-5 summaries.
#1: You are the greatest. Your hotels will be welcomed but first did you see the movies of you in Moscow? I thought so, but to remind you, they come in color and now in three-D. Oh by the way, NATO is a big drain for each of us. Why not get out?
#2: How's the wife? You have to see the pictures someone sent to me. She is a real winner. Want to see them? Let me know. Oh, by the way, Syria wants us to take care of business there. You deal with the Kurds and we will handle the Turks. How you ask? Easy. Just drive them to us.
#3: Your boy tries to be as good as his father, But he is no match for you. See this movie yet? We can send it to you. He tries to be a stud but my Russian gals are too much for him. Oh, by the way, Crimea. What do you care if we are there. In fact, another Trump Tower would look good there. You agree?
#4: There are some nice movies of your German named boy. Russians have no love for Germans. Always invading us and taking down some of our neighbors. No one is safe under these conditions. Not even a little boy! Ah, yes, this Mueller guy. Mueller. Is that a German name? I am sure you can straighten that fake news investigation out.
$5: I love movies. Don't you. Ivanka would be a great star. You should see the stills of the movie she made. Your would think she made it as if she was unaware of the camera. It is difficult to image her dressed. No wonder you'd like to take her out on a date. good taste. About the Trump Towers......
7
@etg
Trump to Putin:
"Does this mean I can have my Towers in Moscow and the Crimea? You are a great guy."
3
Good work by Peter Baker. His aggregation must have an impact on any patriotic American.
6
One guy is the former head of his country’s intelligence agency. The other went in front of his intelligence agency and said, “I’m like, so smart.” What could possibly go wrong?
4
“The console was blinking red.”
2
It’s politically incorrect to deride the American electorate but I’ll just say it:
a large swath of US voters (namely, the 35-40% of vigilant supporters of President Trump) are ignorant and susceptible to propaganda.
It doesn’t mean these Americans are uneducated or have an intellectual deficit. It means more commonly, they are willfully ignorant of the facts. Denial mixed with antipathy and apathy is a human trait. Of course, this is not unique to America. There are plenty of precedents of this phenomenon in human history—past and present. Putin understands it and this is the human vulnerability he has been exploiting for quite some time now. Candidate and now President Trump just happened to be an extraordinarily obvious gift on a glided platter for Russian leaders to exploit and relish.
6
@DG You are buying the propaganda from the left. First, there are a lot of Trump supporters with graduate degrees so calling them ignorant is inaccurate. Trump is not controlled by the Russians but HRC and her cronies created this narrative to justify her loss and undermine a duly elected President. Trump has doubled the number of US troops in Norway (on the Russian border) and provided more support to Poland and the Ukraine than Obama. His actions are not those of a Russian puppet. Do you think Putin is capable of what you and the left are attributing to him? People who believe Russia is influencing Trump are dividing this country based on zero evidence.
Did someone say "Presidential Records Act"?
4
Celeste says, in a favored NY Times pick comment, "I feel hopeless. We are watching the U.S. being completely destroyed in slow motion."
The best way to get rid of the feeling of hopelessness is to take action and there is an immediate way for all of us to show our disdain of The Con Don and everything he stands for.
The third annual "Women's March" is scheduled for this Saturday, January 19, in cities and towns across OUR United States of America and the world.
The link with information is below. Scroll down on the page to the "sister marches" to find a march near you. The media has not promoted the march - again - but it's one of the most important ways to show our contempt for The Con Don, his shutdown of OUR government and his corruption. All people may participate - it's not for women only.
Please, Good People, help get the word out and let's march in numbers never seen before.
NOW IS THE TIME FOR ALL GOOD PEOPLE TO STAND UP FOR OUR COUNTRY.
https://actionnetwork.org/events/womensmarch2019
15
Over 5 MILLION people marched around the world in disgust during the first Women's March the day after the sham inauguration. That was the "official" tally of people who registered and did not count people like myself and my daughters who didn't register.
The Seattle march numbers were at least double the official count.
The Women's March gave us, and will give us this year, a sense of solidarity with the vast majority of Americans who want to see a return to true democracy in OUR United States of America and the world.
See you there!
11
Let's examine how an impartial prosecutor would analyze Mr. Trump's behavior in this case.
The only reason for excessive secrecy surrounding major countries' meetings is to protect interests. It can be either the interest of the countries involved or the personal interests of the leaders attending the meeting.
When countries' interests are being discussed, in principle there is no problem sharing what was said and what was agreed on with other trusted government officials. It is only when the discussions concern leaders' personal interests that sharing information becomes problematic.
Mr. Trump has been reluctant to share with others much of the information about his meetings with Mr. Putin. Hence, it is reasonable to assume that his discussions have been of personal nature.
Mr. Trump has many personal interests. Based on his past, one can safely speculate that majority of his interests are financial. He has also political interests; in particular, to be re-elected is a main concern of his.
To understand how Mr. Trump's financial interests could be linked to Mr. Putin and/or Russia, as a starting point, one needs to have detail information on his income tax returns.
To understand how Mr. Trump's political interests may involve Mr. Putin and his associates, one needs to know what role they played in Mr. Trump's election victory in 2016. If their roles were decisive, then Mr. Trump may want a "repeat"; but with additional safeguards to leave no footprints.
12
Hillary Clinton in reverse. If there are no notes Trump can say whatever he wants. We can't take Putin's word for anything on this. There are no missing emails, not even ghosts of them on servers or backup servers.
This sounds deliberate, malicious, and well planned. The only question is who owns Trump or maybe, who is Trump serving: America, himself, or Putin (Russia), or some other foreign power?
9
OK, I'll say it, if the foreign born-Socialist-Communist-Isis enabler-gun confiscator-healthy eating Obama had done this what do you think the right's reaction would have been?
20
@Rob Obama and cheeseburgers, A love affair by NYT...read more!
I actually think a traitor holds the highest office in the land.
18
Abominable and treasonous.
7
I read comments that the GOP doesn’t care
They care. They care about not being caught up in the dragnet. If they aren’t pursuing this it’s because they are involved in it. Not all but a great many.
Russia and its associated crime families have laundered money through the NRA that then goes to GOP candidates.
Their time will come.
22
@SM
The Russians have a comprehensive and long-term approach to intelligence operations. It's the same way they play chess or engage in military operations.
Going after the presidency would be part of a grander strategy with multiple supporting strategies. One of those strategies, itself with various sub-strategies, would be to compromise the Republican party and their donors and support groups such as the NRA.
Being comprehensive, they'd also make inroads into the Democrats and their support groups.
4
I agree.
Trump is worse than the Rosenbergs and Robert Hanssen combined... and then multiplied by 100.
But since he is a republican president, he'll ride off into the sunset with his billions (that he didn't have before all of this).
12
Trump is not a surprise. We all knew he was a snake cause he said so. Even his voters/base knew/know and was a prime reason for them to put him in office. Anything to pwn the libs. (sic)
What is destressing is our esteemed colleagues on the other side. (Tongue in cheek...)
The fact they KNOW he is decimating our gov. and country in the process, they stand by and rape 'n pillage our treasury. Wastefully spending the blood and treasure of future generations. Casting doubts upon their own nefarious actions and whom they themselves are indebted too.
America is too great and big too be taken down by an outside source.
But it is an easy mark to be sabotaged from within.
Treason has brought down many great empires.
What was the old derogatory term about somebody in the perimeter? Something about goods (sic) in the wire...
To arms! To arms...!
9
A President can be impeached for, "Treason, bribery, or other high crimes and misdemeanors", according to the Constitution. Has the current occupant of the White House committed any of these offenses? Perhaps it is more accurate to ask if he has missed any!
I don't know if he will be impeached, but I know for sure that he should be, and the ONLY reason he might not be is because 20 Republican Senators will have to choose country over party, and that looks like a fool's errand at this point, regardless of the amount of evidence of his guilt.
I, personally, would have no problem with turning him out in the next election but for one thing- giving this despicable creature (I shrink in disgust from calling him a man) two more years to debase, deride, and destroy the country I love. United we stand.
18
@TRA Please help the wonderful state of Wisconsin to vote Blue in the next election.
2
Pull out of NATO?
Where in the world does he come up with this kind of nonsense?
I don’t believe for a minute that Putin has ever had the gall or the chutzpah to suggest it to him.
What I believe is that Trump is crazy enough to have suggested it to him.
8
Weren't there something like 70 to 90 contacts between the Trump campaign and Russia during the election period? What are we to make of that? Was there a sudden fad among GOP operatives for Matryushka dolls? Did Putin's people all want to wear "Make America Great Again" hats? I'm smelling some very collusive rats in the vicinity of Washington, DC....
8
Here is my neutral observer, non-foreign policy expert, just plain folks, Jane Q Public observation: if it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, um, its probably a duck.
12
Perhaps a Presidential interaction that should be thoroughly understood is this one. In this case we know with certainly what was said because the President and the Russian were caught on an open mic. We have a few words but do we need notes of translators and anyone else present. Missile defense is a serious issue and this was followed by the Russia Crimea issue, as well as the Obama Administration apparently doing little to resist Russia during the 2016 election.
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/obama-more-flexibility-russia/
"As he was leaning toward Medvedev in Seoul, Obama was overheard asking for time — “particularly with missile defense” — until he is in a better position politically to resolve such issues.
“I understand your message about space,” replied Medvedev, who will hand over the presidency to Putin in May.
“This is my last election … After my election I have more flexibility,” Obama said, expressing confidence that he would win a second term.
“I will transmit this information to Vladimir,” said Medvedev, Putin’s protégé and long considered number two in Moscow’s power structure."
There is a video clip a way down in this article
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2017/02/20/msnbc_host_cant_rem
4
You’re obviously not concerned that our so-called president is a criminal and a traitor. So are you for supporting him.
4
@Shaw N. Gynan
If I thought Trump was a Russian agent I would be extremely concerned.
What proof do we have for Trump? My take on the quote below is Obama is saying after the election he is not dependent on doing things the voters want and is more flexible in serving Russian interest.
“This is my last election … After my election I have more flexibility,” Obama said, expressing confidence that he would win a second term. “I will transmit this information to Vladimir,” said Medvedev, Putin’s protégé and long considered number two in Moscow’s power structure."
Consider the Uranium One deal, that any election meddling occurred on his watch as did the Russian annexation.
During the Trump administration our military has been strengthened, oil and natural gas are abundant and we are friendlier to Coal (Russia exports them and needs high prices), and NATO (the world organization whose function was largely protecting Europe from the USSR) has been pressured to meet funding commitments.
What same person would think Russia would want Trumps policies of strengh in energy and the military. Wouldn't they much rather have lower military spending in U.S. and NATO, high natural gas and oil prices to fund their economy, the ability to annex parts of their neighbors, and favorable middle negotiations.
2
I can't decide if the people who continue to stand by this president are gullible or if they just don't care that he lies. I will forever point to the fact that this is a man who cheated on his wife with a porn star, and others, while his wife was pregnant with their son. That's the kind of man this is. That is really all we need to know to determine whether he cares about anything or anyone other than himself.
This is a man with zero integrity and zero respect for others, even his own family, and he wears those qualities on his sleeve like a scarlet letter, minus the shame.
13
And if anyone thinks Trump is a match for his good buddy Vlad... Putin must be absolutely thrilled to have someone in the White House that he can flatter and manipulate so easily. Trump, who came into office with no understanding of our own history, let alone world history, and can't even be bothered with reading anything but the shortest briefings, is too ignorant and narcissistic to have a clue.
8
The longer Putin can use his dupe, Trump, on his chess board to destabilize the West and embarrass and demean America, the better for Putin. Clearly, Putin engineered the American Presidency. The NSA and CIA have compelling, overwhelming evidence of Russian use of bots on social media and other methods, like funneling 30 million through the NRA for the Trump election. Trump amd his supporters are simply Putin's dupes. I ask you; Why wouldn't Putin, Xi and KIm continue to support Trump in the American presidency? Look at all the harm Trump's done in 24 short months.
Dupe: 1. a person who is easily deceived. 2. a person who unwittingly serves as the tool of another person or power.
6
Meeting five times, confiscating notes, no debriefings, and he is a conniving liar it is no wonder that the FBI began a counterintelligence investigation. This man wants no accountability to the American people.
10
After the Snowden Revelations, how is it not dereliction of duty for a security establishment that merely suspects the President of the United States MIGHT be a Russian asset to NOT BUG him 24/7/365 plus his family, his lawyers, his cabinet and his appointees and employees? Go watch Oliver Stone's Snowden on Netflix again, folks. The technology is real, it's awesome and it's being used to record everything you commit to any electronic medium every day and some you don't.
Impossible to believe Trump's 2AM bedfarts aren't recorded, much less his conversations with hostile foreign leaders.
1
It's a clever narrative to paint Trump as some primal King Kong, out of control, raging through the city streets with America, like Fay Wray, caught in his clutches. But Donny Kong's not really the problem. We already have means and remedies to stop him but they are not being actively used because of passivity, corruption and cowardice. It's as though all those biplanes and army men have been told to stand down because there might be some discomfort if drastic action is taken. So, what's the plan? We let him climb higher and higher in hopes that he stumbles? I just hope the big gorilla doesn't land on me.
6
We keep projecting Russia as our greatest threat. While England, Israel and Saudi Arabia remain our “special relationship allies”.
The founders of America knew better.
Putin is winning with Brexit, NATO, France, Germany and America specifically "TRUMP" and GOP lawmakers. He is as happy as a Gopher in soft dirt. Mr. Putin has infiltrated the whole Republican Party as well. It can rightfully be said that he is about to use Trump to destabilize all the western democracies if we don’t stop him. In Mueller we trust.
10
Trump has Trump's interests first; Russia's second; America; not at all. Ray Sipe
5
My guess is Putin was giving Trump his to do list: pull the US out of NATO (its coming), lift the sanctions the Russian oligarchs companies, leave Syria, cripple your own government with a shut-down....
4
We have a traitor in the WH. It's that simple, and the perplexing thing is, apparently, no one in our government wants to do anything about it, especially no repub. Does our intelligence organization have ways and means of obtaining details of these secret meeting conversations? I believe so, and, if so, who would be holding that information? I doubt we'll know, but I'm sure Edward Snowden could cast some light on this subject. Odd that no one seems to bring up his extraordinary revelations about our "monitoring " abilities in light of these meetings.
One thing is certain: our "democracy" is eroding before our eyes, as we've allowed a lying, greedy crook to occupy the WH. Worse, we've allowed our government to have been purchased by the highest bidders. But pay no attention to the man behind the curtain, buy a new truck!
5
With so many people Trump bashing, is it any wonder he asks everyone to leave, maybe in an effort to prevent leaks? Really folks, the best way to keep things private is to not tell anyone. What would the media find on you if they looked as hard as they do at Trump?
3
@John. Has Trump given American intelligence, legislators, the 'woke' American public, Men and women who are competent historians - the keepers of the American trust, the experienced learned and wise voices who speak for American policies and politics, and Our allies, a compelling reason to trust him?
Or should we believe Trump, a pathological liar, that he has America's best interest at heart and in his "gut", and not Our 'lying eyes' and 'lying ears?'
5
I still think that there is nothing meaningful that's going to come out of Mr Mueller's investigation other than more of the same of what we've seen so far.
But I do think that President Trump has severely underestimated the impact that his behavior will have in the future. It's inevitable that the Democrats will gain control again and they will not bat an eyelash at going after Mr Trump on anything they can, even if he's out of office. And, being a private citizen, means he'll have to bear the legal costs. Which will be astronomical.
collusion or not.. no high official in MY govt should be having any totally private meetings with high officials of another country.
what was discussed no matter how minor it may have seemed at the time might be either the basis for or potentially the basis for actions that my country may take or be involved in sometime in the future.
were actions that trump took effecting Russia or Russian interests agreed to with Putin in order to deflect from the secret meetings?
it amazes me how others give Trump a pass to act and do anything he wants to do in the name of the US and it's citizens
his continued actions in these ways are totally contrary to our type of government.
1
"Hey, Russia, if you are listening, I hope you can find the notes from the meeting Trump had with Putin that Donny grabbed out of the hands of the interpreter. I bet you have a transcript of that conversation and you'd be mightily rewarded by our media if you could let us have them."
Aren't those notes official US business? Don't they fall under the records act? Where are they? If Trump destroyed them, isn't that illegal? Doesn't this give leverage to Putin that they have the documentation about what was said and the US government and our national security team does not? Oh, but her emails!
9
The moment Putin gave the “go ahead” to hack our voting equipment and access our voter lists he became an enemy of the American people and the US.
The hacking was reported by governors in a number of states. I don’t need anymore information to form a hostile opinion of Russia.
2
Things done in secrecy tend to benefit the one keeping the secret.
5
When I watch & listen to Ms. Huckabee Sanders trying to defend the indefensible, my impression is her eyes don't even believe the propaganda exiting her mouth.
This president has not been "tough" on Russia, nor has he been transparent in his dealings with Russia, going so far as to take the interpreter's notes, hiding discussions from his own team, throwing our intelligence agencies under the bus. All things that work in favor of Mr. Putin, who must be so pleased in his efforts to find an American stooge.
4
I'm a progressive. Could you consider me a Republican if my faith in government is now so low that I prefer this administration to be as small as possible?
I think that Donald Trump is the MOST extraordinary and remarkable President we ever had.
Things he has accomplished:
1. Taught us that if we align our interests with those that have other darker motives and are more public than their numbers reflect, that we don’t have to take.
2. Taught us that the fight for freedom is not just the brave servicemen and civil rights workers, but for all of us
3. Has taught us “you don’t know what you got till it’s gone” applies to leaders, expertise, empathy, this worldliness, loyal mutually beneficial relationships.
4. Reminded us that 1 plus 1 is more than rather than less than two.
5. Reminds us That we learn good things from our parents, teachers, leaders that we want to emulate and those things we are wary of emulating.
6. Reminds us that any belief system that makes you feel superior closes your mind to others needs and ideas and stunts your growth.
Let’s, on both sides learn from this unique individual and call out those
on both sides that haven’t learned
1
“Of course I was disappointed with Helsinki, but I do not just look at how the president handles specific meetings with Putin,” said Luke Coffey, a foreign policy scholar at the Heritage Foundation. “Instead, I’m most interested in what the actual policies are coming out of the administration.”
I too look at the results or policies and we have the government shutdown, which Putin would totally applaud and may have suggested for Trump to use this tactic to seize control, then there are the troop withdrawals from Syria and Afghanistan which Putin also wanted to happen.
2
@Andrea Landry
That's KGB thinking.
1
So the question is, does Trump also behave this way with other heads of state, such as the president of China, North Korea, Germany,... ? If the answer is no, then there is every reason to suspect treason.
2
What is fascinating is that trump has been far harder on Putin and Russia than Obama. Not even close. Don’t believe me? Ask Ukraine. Maybe Obama colluded? Let’s start an investigation.
I guess trump is a double agent. That must be it.
The ink spilled in this Russia collision issue is mind boggling.
It’s s conspiracy. For sure.
1
If he looks like a party to collusion, and acts like a party to collusion...
1
The Republican Party first demonstrated its willingness to abandon its principles and do business with traitors when it sold out the freed slaves in the South to the not-so-tender mercies of the former rebels who had sought to tear our nation apart in order to preserve the South's right to enslave black human beings. The GOP's failure and/or refusal to continue the weakened Reconstruction efforts and its withdrawal of federal troops left black Southerners undefended, undereducated, unemployed and disenfranchised for another century--after 250 years of enslavement.
Betraying black Americans was politically expedient in the 1870s, and even a century later when Republicans adopted Nixon's so-called "Southern strategy" to peel away racists from the Democrat Party, who had long had a home there. But the betrayal of ALL Americans by today's GOP through its willful blindness of Trump's possibly treasonous behavior toward Russia surely cannot serve any reasonable or legitimate political purpose. Thus, McConnell and other GOP members of Congress must insist that Trump disclose the contents of all his discussions with Putin and any notes memorializing them. Given the unquestionable importance of those communications, those disclosures should be made publicly and under oath. If McConnell and the GOP do not join with Democrats in seeking and obtaining this information, they may be found complicit in some of the most treacherous acts of betrayal in US history.
3
There is some discrepancy as to how high Trump needs to jump.
Trump didn't follow the original instructions, so he needed to be redirected.
2
Are the communications "largely unknown" or, actually, "unknown" or better yet "completely unknown".
The wishy washy writing about these issues needs to stop.
For some ungodly reason, I live in Trump country both in NYC and in Florida. I cannot say a word without a donnybrook ensuing. If I manage a civil discussion and I am asked why I do not support the President, I begin with the date, May 10, 2017, when Trump marched into the Oval Office with Sergey Lavrov who virtually thumbed his nose at reporters who asked him about the Comey firing and smirked, said, "Oh, was he fired?", as he walked away, the then Russian Ambassador, the Russian Press, as they omitted our reporters, and shut the door to discuss God knows what.
The second incident would be Helsinki and Trumps outright rejection of our own Department of Justices' findings of Russian meddling in our elections in favore of Putin's word, and then trotting off to another secret meeting with interpreters only and no word to the public.
In other words, I tell them, Russia is our adversary, our foe, a political antagonist not to be trusted, and it has been this way for decades, and are you not seeing what is going on? Apparently not.
This article highlights so many more incidents and cements the case so much more clearly. However, in the case of not supporting Trump and his motives, aside from Russia and the USA, there are so many other things we could list here, including this standoff, and what is going on around the world that could benefit Mother Russia. It is scary, and I for one wonder if all the tentacles do reach her bosom somehow. Could Kashoggi's murder factor in?
4
I have three bright friends who are Trumpsters. Their arguments in favor of him are impassioned and senseless. I have learned that they are afraid and cannot be reasoned with.
The public conversation needs to start on life after Trump. He will either go down with criminal charges or lose re election, either way he is done.
@N.E.Lake Please help the great state of Michigan vote Blue in 2020.
Perhaps in those meetings they discussed other, non-detectable means of back channel communications? It seemed to be a goal that Donald Jr. and others were seeking even during the campaign. The question is how many communications do we have no idea about, and what means are used?
Putin was probably stoking Trump's distrust of NATO, whisperering in Donny's ear about how those NATO countries take advantage of the US, and how it really isn't necessary to even have NATO any more, now that the two of them are such good buddies. "Hey, Donald, wouldn't you rather spend that money on a big beautiful wall to shield you from that awful security threat, Mexico? And then you could put your name on it, yeah, that's the ticket! ". Putin has so many points of entry into Trump's head it's not funny: his insecurities, his ego, his need for flattery and validation, his greed, his fear of appearing weak, his arrogant ignorance. It's like an all you can eat banquet for a KGB intelligence operative to feast on. And he is.
19
Whatever they discussed, talking past one another about how wonderful they are, their appetite for boredom knows no bounds.
What could they have to talk about? A tin pot dictator from a third-rate country talking to a third-rate guy wannabe tin pot dictator about Trump's outstanding debts? Talking about silly tawdry naughty parties Trump attended?
Talking about Trump's lifelong fascination with all things eastern European and Russian, so much so that even his eyes ever more resemble somebody from Vladivostok, and maybe that he is a spy/mole/rat for Putin.
Nah, Putin may not be a genius but he's smart enough to avoid Trump as any other sensible person would except as a tool to destroy the US.
What's Putin got on Trump?
12
I wonder if Putin pays Trump, McConnell and others in the GOP and this Administration in rubles or U. S. dollars...
8
I have been sending letters of a lack of confidence in our country's leadership to my local and state government reps about this dangerous president but the responses are odd- I am taking care of education, blah blah and sure- Trump has made a joke of our democracy.... Are these just words? The sense of urgency does not exist while the people of the USA are plain scared. Trump needs to be impeached and put on trial for being a traitor #1 to the USA. I am upset at myself for not being on the streets every single day and I suppose a dark part of me feels that we are nearing Trump ordering the military to shoot down Americans who protest against him since Putin is his master. This is no longer just a charming storyline that has us visually and verbally upset- we had better take the opportunity to fight Trump in every way we have possible. Flood the government with calls and emails...starting now and let's start doing something productive NYT beyond the warnings and the next senator who sense me a pat on the head letter is going to get a follow up letter of anger- I do not vote for a charming-lots-of-interesting-voices Democratic party- I voted for one who will work as a unit to protect us.
9
Donald Trump likely laundered Russian oligarch dirty funds for decades and then was trapped once he won the presidency. We are seeing the results of what happens when someone who is beholden to Vladimir Putin is the POTUS.
18
bingo.
3
It’s probably a mystery to DT as well!
2
Let’s see the Taxes
11
Unfortunately for many of the readers in this Comments section, there is only one US President. I don't care who he talks to. There are ways to change this situation including a 2020 vote, impeachment and removal, and 25th amendment action and removal. There seems to be a psychotic McCarthyism spirit in our country on Russia. One day many grandkids will ask, grampa-were you afraid of the Russians back then?
2
@Marty Rowland, Ph.D., P.E.
"Unfortunately for many of the readers in this Comments section, there is only one US President."
Not sure why this is unfortunate. The Constitution establishes only one president at a time. As for not caring who he talks to, well I guess you are a trusting soul.
2
Russia hacked our voting machines in various states. They went after voter lists. They hacked the DNC. You will be having a very different conversation with your grandson than you think. Let’s hope that you can keep your eyes level. I, for one will not tolerate being hacked every other day. Thanks FBI and CIA! I certainly don’t plan to rollover and consent.
4
I was listening to Rachel Maddow last night and she commenting on this fomenting scandal, said, you can bet Putin ABSOLUTELY has notes...notes that he could use to further blackmail Trump into more obedience...
Did Putin give Trump his laundry/wish list to destroy American democracy? Has Trump been compliant and obedient to do his bidding? Does America have a Russian spy/sympathizer/outed mole sitting in the Oval office attached to strings reaching into the Kremlin?...
6
Why do the NYT and Washington Post want the U.S. to go to war with Russia? Why have they labelled Russia our enemy?
@edpal
Why do you consider Russia a "friend" or even ally? They do not share our democratic values, they are trying to take chunks of the Ukraine for themselves, people who do not agree with the government have very short lives. Need I go on? No one is talking about war (you excepted). Somehow I doubt that you are an American living in New York - just a hunch.
3
@edpal
FYI. We are already at war with Russia.
They have attacked us during the last election.
Too bad the one person who is responsible for our nation's security denies the attack ever happened.
3
NYT - seriously, “What Was Said Is a Mystery.”
Are you covering a TV Reality Show? (Yes, we all know the reality TV farce of this administration) - but are you their lackey?
How about “The President refuses to disclose what was said.”
If you don’t hold this Administration accountable especially in the words you choose to cover it; if you puppy-follow their Reality Show melodrama language - you are part of the problem.
Words matter.
13
@LK Mott
Words do matter. And that is why any time there is a meeting between two or more heads of state, what is said, is documented.
Trump is within his right to refuse to disclose what he discussed with Putin.
If Trump were to drop dead tomorrow and Putin announced that there was an agreement made between the two of them and he insists that the US stick to that agreement, what proof do we have?
It is not that Trump doesn't want the public to know what was discussed, he doesn't want ANYONE to know. No one in his administration has a clue what went on behind closed doors.
That should scare the hell out of any red blooded American.
2
It's pretty simple. We've probably been seeing collusion in plain sight. That's the real national security threat. Not some stupid border wall.
12
Thanks Bernie
3
The most benign interpretation that I can think of - and it is a stretch - is that Putin regularly ridicules Trump to his face. I find it totally plausible that Putin would call out his incompetence and ignorance right to his face and share a laugh with his "interpreter". Trump could not handle that being exposed after publicly sucking up to this despot on so many occasions. That said, I still think something more nefarious is afoot.
3
If this is the president's policy when he meets with foreign leaders, I don't agree, but it is what it is.
If this is our president's policy only when meeting Mr. Putin, this sends up a red flag to me and most Americans, excluding members of the GOP.
2
@galtsgultch
If that is his policy with all world leaders, he should be impeached for political incompetence. Yeah, I know, that's not an impeachable offense, but it should be. It's the worst form of malpractice I can think of.
Let's get one thing clear here.
Trump works for the people of the United States. Everything thing he does while in office, he is accountable to the American people. All transcripts of discussions he has with world leaders belong to the people of the United States. There is no legitimate reason for him to have any ex parte discussions with a world leader let alone one as nefarious as Putin.
If there are any notes on these meetings, they should receive the same legal status as Nixin's White House tapes.
Yes, even Nixon keep records of his meetings. Perhaps that's why Trump doesn't.
2
Failure Trump IS a security risk, by whatever description or definition the US security services use to determine risks.
The GOP needs to seriously take note and work with the Democrats to investigate and take action against this President.
6
The core base finds nothing problematic with any of
this. To its members it represents their hero's heroic struggles against the DC elites to grab back power in their name. Keeping secret meeting summaries keeps the material out of the elites' hands who conspire against the people's will embodied by their leader.
It is this widespread delusion that explains why there is
so little, if any, outrage expressed by the enablers in congress
who need a defanged base to insure reelection. Questioning the wisdom of keeping privy important
material is akin to questioning the hero's noble struggle to
wrest power away from those in power who don't embody
the people's deepest interests.
That is the mythical side of this latest demonstration
of execrable governing skills.
There is another feature that is connected to how trump has dealt with the climate assessment report. He dismissed that
in an utterly juvenile way by claiming he didn't "believe it". Granted to him alone, apparently, is the ability to see deeply into nature's mysteries and discern what's really happening. Sigh. Sigh.
When it comes to Russia, the analogy is his over the top and
loony self assurance that to him alone is given the gift
of being able to cut a good deal with putin. Only he knows how to deal with someone like putin. Everyone else with actual expertise is either weak or conspiring against him to get the terrific deal he knows is his to get. So, why bother to share info with losers?
1
I have obtained transcripts of the meetings. I am not at liberty to reveal my source, but can confirm it was not former Representative Dana Rohrabacher.
#1 The leaders spent most of this meeting in a serious discussion of Quantum Mechanics. Mr. Trump quoted frequently from scientist Richard Feynman's CalTech lectures on Physics. Mr. Putin demonstrated his mathematical prowess by using a Feynman Diagram to show the radioactive decay of enriched Uranium.
#2 This meeting was mainly about Climate Change and Global Warming. Mr. Putin presented a slide show highlighting the risks of rising carbon emissions across Russia, lamenting the fact that Siberia might not be as cold in the future and would not be able to serve as a suitable place of banishment.
#3 A long discussion about Global Economics. Here Mr. Trump clearly shined showing his deep knowledge of the economic theories of John Maynard Keynes and deftly contrasting them, also by use of a slide show, with the theories of Karl Marx.
#4 A sometimes tearful meeting with Melania and Mr. Putin's escort, Natasha Fatale, included in a discussion on Women's Rights in the World. Both leaders agreed 1000% that women are equals, with Mr. Putin arguing that the next leader of Russia should be a woman. Mr. Trump proposed that Melania would be a goodly candidate in the 2020 US presidential election.
#5 A much more light-hearted meeting with most time spent discussing whether Alabama would repeat as the National Champion.
6
There is so much tradecraft going on here it's dizzying.
All gifts to the president are inspected by the Secret Service but did they examine that gifted soccer ball in Helsinki?
It all couldn't be more "Burn after reading".
I can't believe the media and much of the public and the government are arguing about whether the Trump Tower meeting is collusion/conspiracy!
If those grifters can gaslight us on that, can they just get away with any thing?
Trump must go now.
4
Did Mr. Trump have private, secretive meetings with any other world leaders? It does seem strange that he would have these meetings with the man many believe got him elected.
What was discussed is Trump Inc. lingering debt to Russian banks and Putin oligarchs and how to restructure that debt in light of loosening of trade sanctions etc. Oh, and the latest real estate and hotel plans with Jared and Ivanka.
This type of behavior is how nations become oligarchies and dictatorships that brutally remove any opposition.
If Congress does not get a grip on this, our democracy will be lost.
3
This should NEVER had happened. It should never be allowed to happen again.
2
Does anyone know if he meets with others in this same manner: without briefing his top aides on what was discussed or having them in the room?
2
Hiding from Americans what is known to, and doubtlessly recorded by, Russians requires a remarkably flawed state of mind. Or collusion (a two hour secret meeting in Helsinki?). Follow the money; then remove Trump and Republican enablers from office.
The unbelievable has now become believable.
2
What are republicans thinking when they don't think they have to hold trump accountable for his secretive meetings with Putin? All issues discussed with strong-man dictator Putin should be part of a public record or at least reported to Congress. We still have a democracy the last time I looked. Trumps love of totalitarian strong-man dictators is no surprise to anyone. This creepy administration so far has only done damage to our country, i.e., longest government shut-down, tariff trade wars, assault on our environmental laws for land, air & water, attacks on the FBI and the DOJ, etc. How much damage does trump have to do or are most republicans complicit in his madness?
There's really only one word to describe Trump's actions relative to Russia and Putin: traitorous. I hope he's eventually held responsible for the damage he's doing to our country.
4
Trump is required by law to deposit presidential records with an archivist. His failure to do so would be a crime analogous to a police officer seizing evidence and failing to put the evidence in an evidence locker.
Imagine what we would say about an officer that repeatedly refused to put evidence in the evidence locker. As Trump says, we would call such person a “Dirty Cop.” We would want such person removed from the force.
We must demand strict accountability for his repeated failures to obey the law. We cannot accept this blatant lawlessness as the new normal.
5
Oh the USA, What a silly government that allows its leaders to converse with enemy leaders without any advisors in the room or any documentation. What great trust U.S. citizens must place in their president. Add that to the list on the Democrat's anti-corruption bill that the Senate won't advance.
1
Excuse me.
I have a reasonable doubt.
Why would we expect anything to be revealed about meetings between our President and his Russian handler? But until we do - if we ever - hear or see the transcripts of those meetings, I'll continue to believe that Trump is controlled by our enemy and is a traitor.
2
When I was younger, red was a color that was associated with the Soviet Communists. Now it is a color that is associated with Trump and the Republicans. Coincidence? Perhaps.
1
You have especially one very interesting source of conversation in your story, Victoria J. Nuland. Her covert and overt actions in the service of the US foreign policy apparatus are very well known in the world. She was an essential person arranging a coup’etat in Ukraine.
It seems that the New York Times considers her (one of the leading figures in the neocon circles) actions very positively serving American interests.
It also seems that the paper is not at all as disturbed what president Trump’s policy does in very vital arenas of world politics:
withdrawing from the climate agreement, withdrawing from Iran agreement (the future of politics based on agreements)1, withdrawing from vital arms deal (INF), creating pressure and threatening allies with sanctions etc.
I would think these are the matters that are coming to weigh in the future much more than some unorthodoxly arranged meetings between two presidents. No matter what you think they do not decide world matters alone, not even matters in their respective countries, or for that matter among their own little political circles.
It seems from outside world, from here where the majority of people live that at least part of the so called elite of the US society has buried itself deeper and deeper in paranoia.
The New York Times has excellent science pages. Bring topics of those pages to your front page and editorials. Those are the matters that really matter and urgently.
Marja Nikkila
Finland
@Marja Nikkila
Perhaps if it were your country Trump was selling out to the Russians, you'd have a different opinion. Yes, the issues you raise are obviously important, but these traitorous actions by a sitting U.S. president that threaten the sovereignty of the most powerful nation in the world cannot be regarded as trivial.
2
What appears obvious is that we have traitors in our midst. What's bizarre to me is how they thought they'd get away with it. They still might. But when the nation was at it's strongest following WWII, we knew how to deal with this and it wasn't pretty. The death penalty for all those behind it would seem to be the only way to get one side to finally wake up and understand their act of treason. I think most of the wrongdoers believe they'll get a slap on the wrist or 6 months in a white collar prison, if punished at all. Prove them wrong.
4
Dems need to make this a priority of investigation. Ray Sipe
6
@Ray Sipe Please help the great state of Florida vote Blue in 2020.
This persistence of Russian puppet masters controlling the US or our leaders is nothing more than continuation of the Democrat smear campaign.
World leaders speak on and off the record all the time. Do you think that Franklin Roosevelt and Josef Stalin had stenographers each time they spoke during WW2? Use some commonsense and focus on your candidates in 2020 instead of throwing mud against the wall and hoping something sticks.
Many presidents have expressed in one way or other the need to fight for freedom that faces every generation from GW to TJ to Madison, Monroe, Lincoln, FDR, JFK, Reagan and others including Franklin and other presidents as well. Never ever before was one of the fronts was the President of the United States.
1
There is no wall for mud to stick because there’s nothing solid there Stalin wanted to meet with FDR sans Churchill because he saw FDR. was failing and it would only his word. Fool me once...... It Is myopic to think Trump is business as usual because that’s the only promise he kept. His expression of reality has no guidance.
@Nature Voter,
No, the Pres. is an employee of it's citizens.
Unless he and Putin are comparing mushroom sizes, (thanks Stormy) then we need/deserve to know for our safety.
Read the link and decide if he has gone against regulations by tearing up memo's and notes made by translators.
https://www.archives.gov/about/laws/presidential-records.html
4
Trumps contempt for the American People has no end. The very idea that he won't allow anyone to be in the room when he is taking instruc,,,er,,,,"talking".... to his dictator BFF's should make even the most sycophantic Trumper wonder about his true affiliation. Clearly Trump has total contempt for, and is a traitor to the American People. Now the only question is, what are the Repubs going to do about their traitorous leader? Are they going to coddle the traitor or get rid of him. There are only two options for them, and this will define Repubs forever.
7
No mystery whatsoever...he is following Kremlin directions, just watch what he's doing.
'Like I said: A puppet,' Hillary Clinton tweets after recent reports about Trump, Russia.
9
Re: "...What President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia has told President Trump in their meetings remains largely unknown, even to American officials..."
Why does this president act, like Mr. Putin signs his paycheck???
Why does this president protect his communications with Putin...from U.S. counter-intelligence folks...as well as continuing to use his unsecured personal phone for official / any business??
The president's S-In-L, J. Kushner, has attempted to set, up unauthorized, ('back channel'), comm networks with the Russians to AVOID U.S. counter_intelligence folks...
WHY is that?
Why does the president's son in law feel he needs to protect whatever he's up, to, FROM...U.S. government entities / awareness??
6
Clearly and without doubt treasonous behavior by the most untrustworthy president in the history of the United States of America. A disgrace to the office of the President ..... and the American people!
12
This too serious to be ignored, we need open hearings on all phases of this presidency, until we know the truth. There are so many lies and too much secrecy that are not part of the normalcy, why? His enablers say this is trump and how he does business, no there is nothing usual or normal here.
We need to follow the money, the trump businesses were always corrupt but after the bankruptcies, that money could not be raised from the normal American sources. We know, that all monies from the 2000s on came from Russia. In fact the trumps proudly told us. We would be extremely naive to believe that all those monies came without strings attached. Trump and his family are too corrupt and stupid to recognize that this is how Russia turns assets. Yes, Russia knows and holds much dirt on the trumps
Now, everyday new reporting discovers more anomalies that lead to the destruction of the American Republic. Trumps actions confirm that he needs to satisfy Russia's demands.
More astonishing is that the Republican Party doesn't care, the pursuance of total power is their only goal.
9
Putin continues to work his favorite marionette and smiles. It is conspiracy against the United States in plain sight.
11
I think we all have a good idea what was said and even Trump is not dumb enough to publicize it.
2
Here we have an experienced intelligence operative easily manipulating our fool in chief. Putin knows exactly what buttons to push to make Trump’s tail wag.
8
Reality check 72 million people in usa on government assitance some kind .People grow dependant on government an are more willing to give up there freedoms. Stop complaining about are government an ask what we can do for are government. Jk gave that speech years ago an i still remember . Does any one still beleive in that vission?
A "mystery?"
Not true, Mr. Baker.
What was said is unknowable...ever...because both the people who spoke are pathological liars and con men.
Even if Trump or Putin revealed what was said in detail, it would be mostly lies, Mr. Baker.
We know that from experience.
7
While the president has continued reflexively and repeatedly squawking like a parrot, his "no collusion" phrase , we can see once again that collusion is only the tip of the iceberg and that the president's habitual lying is very likely a smokescreen for whatever far more serious issues are lurking beneath the surface. That this president is being investigated for the possibility of his being an agent of the Russian government is enough to give one pause for thought.
You can be sure that Robert Mueller knows a lot more than even the best journalists on the New York Times, and what he reveals will be so damaging, that if Donald Trump's morons in Congress decide to continue supporting him they will surely go down with him.
Maybe Mitch McConnell , Devin Nunez and Lindsey Graham should think about an early retirement- at this point , they may be forced into it in 2020 regardless.
And what is worth fighting for now? That Robert Mueller's findings become known to the American people when they are completed .
6
Well at least we know what Obama said to Putin.... That he would have more flexibility after the elections.... Flexibility to do what?
1
What was said between presidents Trump and Putin may be a mystery but because of an open microphone we know what president Obama said to outgoing Russian President Dmitry Medvedev on the eve of a global nuclear security summit in Seoul South Korea. According to reporting by Reuters, the following exchange was documented:
Obama urged Moscow “to give him “space” until after the November ballot”, assuring Medvedev that he will have “more flexibility” to deal with contentious issues like missile defense after the U.S. presidential election.
“This is my last election ... After my election I have more flexibility,” Obama was heard to say. As he was leaning toward Medvedev, Obama was overheard asking for time - “particularly with missile defense”.
“I understand your message about space,” replied Medvedev. “I will transmit this information to Vladimir”.
Russia’s goal of course was to obtain “a legally binding pledge from the United States that Russia’s nuclear forces would not be targeted by the system and joint control of how it is used. In todays context such interaction and words are labeled “collusion” and “treasonous. Then again, today our president is named Trump and not Obama.
3
There is nothing remotely treasonous about that exchange. “What about-ism” is never a valid defense of Trump, and this comparison is particularly weak.
8
With Obama, one can recognize that he knew people would hear and that it could be an opening to come to the table. Trump is on the table as lunch. False equivalency.
3
@tim k
Nice try but no cigar.
3
trump supporters, can you make a case for the trump/Putin plan that does not involve insulting Democrats? Simple common sense would serve you here. If trump and every. single. one. of his advisers lied about only one thing: RUSSIAN contacts, nothing raises your American hackles? When trump has multiple meetings with our adversary RUSSIA, hides/destroys notes and lies about it all again, nothing smells bad to you? When trump can repeat PUTIN'S propaganda about Crimea word for word, calling Russian aggression merciful freedom, that sounds pretty American to you?
Now, as FOX and trump ramp up their attacks, not against PUTIN, but...wait for it..... AMERICAN law enforcement?? Still OK with you?
Not me, and not millions of other Americans. We'll stand with our constitution, traditions, you know, all that stuff that makes up culture. You folks love to deride the American way of multiculturalism, in order to defend a culture of intolerance. Move to Moscow if you really think the FBI, etc are suddenly, after 250 years of ACTUAL service to this nation, suddenly infested with evil, on trumpie's word only.
It's hard to believe this is all it takes. trump's carnival clown act is compelling enough to open the door to fascism. We know the signs, we've seen it before, and still there are Americans clapping their hands in delight when they hear his divisive hatred, and willingly pass regressive laws in order to stick it to other Americans.
14
How can this be innocent?
I don't buy the explanation that Trump felt burned, as a matter of principle only, by the disclosure of his telcons with the Mexican and Australian heads of state.
The fact is, those exchanges were highly embarrassing and reflected very poorly on him. Recall that he asked the Mexican head of state to lie for him over his ridiculous campaign pledge that Mexico would pay for the southern border wall; and then, his screaming match with the Australian head of state.
This suggests that his communications with Putin were, at a minimum, equally gauche and inept, if not outright treasonous.
In other words, if he had nothing more to hide than what transpired in the oval office in his meeting with Lavrov and Kysliak, that would be bad enough. Recall that he trash-talked his own chief of domestic counter-intelligence and divulged highly sensitive intelligence that may have resulted in the loss of life by assets of an allied foreign service
But here's the real point -- if Trump were doing the government's business with Putin, as he claims, there is every reason to share what was discussed with his advisors, so that they would be able to implement, at a government-wide level, what was verbally agreed to.
His obsession with secrecy only strengthens the inference of malfeasance or treason.
2
No mystery here. It is secret because Putin and Trump were conspiring to destroy the United States. When a dictator meets in secret with a person who wants to be a dictator, they are talking about destroying Democracy.
12
"Mr. Trump’s defenders ... note that he has been an unorthodox president in so many ways that it does not prove anything untoward." Now that is logic à la Trump. Let us begin with the word "unorthodox". Using "unorthodox" is a gentle way to avoid using more appropriate words like incompetent, autocratic or dishonest and thus creating a falsehood. The falsehood is removed in the following, corrected sentence: Mr. Trump’s defenders ... note that he has been an autocratic president in so many ways that it does not prove anything untoward. So now the Trump supporters have stooped so low that they are denying the proven truth. Mr. Trump and his followers are a stain on the history of the United States.
7
Trump and his supporter have used the "deep dark state" hypothesis to decry our federal government. I don't think you can surpass the darkness of a president who has had five secret meetings with one of the most pernicious and dangerous dictators of the 21st century.
8
To me, Rachel Maddow hit the nail on the head. Vladimir Putin knows exactly what happened at these meetings and probably all his associates who need to know. We, on the other hand, know absolutely nothing about what happened at these meetings. The only person who knows is Trump, and he's not telling anybody, and since he is a pathologic liar, how can we believe anything he would tell us? We've become a nation at sea without a rudder or compass to guide us, to prepare us for misfortune. And the Republican Congressional Caucus just sits there and does nothing. Just writing this bring chills up my spine. As John Adams pronounced in the musical "1776": "Does anybody see what I see?"
5
Luke Coffey, a foreign policy scholar at the Heritage Foundation. “Instead, I’m most interested in what the actual policies are coming out of the administration.”
And the policy with Putin seems to be to allow them (the Ruskies) to interfere with out elections and who knows what else. and the policy of not letting others see the translated conversations with Putin is very troubling and should be illegal.
6
No mystery what Putin said to Trump and vice-versa. There were translators in the room during their 5 meetings. Follow the translators. Follow the money!
2
They play cards. Trump is teaching him Bridge with the two interpertors. They like to talk about good looking women. Trump also tells him he’s gotta do what he has to do on sanctions etc, but hopefully better times are coming. He tells him it’s all about economics not reinstate the expansion of the Russian state, He said deal with what you have and you will do better. Putin wants him to go on a diet. If he loses fifty pounds he will stop harassing the Ukraians. They want to go riding together.They both love chocolate but Putin won’t give him any until he loses weight.
5
"He said that he raised the election hacking three times and that Mr. Putin denied involvement. But he said Mr. Putin also told him that “if we did, we wouldn’t have gotten caught because we’re professionals.” Mr. Trump said: “I thought that was a good point because they are some of the best in the world” at hacking."
If this is the case, according to Trump, how are we to know? What is it with this administration? Do they just refuse to accept the people who have years and years of studying Russian world interactions results?
''...have you no shame...?"
3
Tap his phones. Don't allow him alone with any world leader, much less a dictator. And, by all mean, don't allow him anymore picks for Cabinet positions or Attorney General.
4
I know i am over reacting but is it possible trump will declare martial law? And if so, what exactly will that mean for our country and all of us individual, ordinary citizens?
Isn't it time we take to the streets?
3
The Trump has clearly stated, on record, that in government "I am the only one that matters".
That attitude appears to explain his behavior, giving us little cause for hope.
6
If Trump were truly innocent of all these suspicions, he could clear the air by opening up about his finances and publishing his tax returns. One can understand how uncomfortable that would be for any of us, but any intelligent person would have foreseen that becoming President would lead to public scrutiny of his affairs.
The key word being "intelligent". Trump lacks the wisdom to think through any issue in detail. And he's our President.
1
There may not have been collusion in the legal sense, but there certainly was a conspiracy between the Russians and Trump and his family/friends to get Trump elected President in 2016. Putin (and the rest of the world's despots) have certainly prevailed and gotten any investment returned 1,000-fold.
4
Trumps defenders point out that transcripts of his telephone calls with the leaders of Australia and Mexico were leaked to the press to justify the extreme privacy Trump prefers when meeting with Putin.
Those leaks revealed shocking information about Trumps conduct with other leaders soon after his election; ie, the leaks revealed bad behaviour.
Trump is clearly more interested in having total privacy in his communications with Putin than he is in proving to Americans that these communications are in Americas best interests. This pattern of conduct is repeated consistently for every single meeting the two have had.
Team Mueller will understand what this means.
6
It was Deep Throat that uttered some of the most prophetic words in the latter half of the 20th century, "follow the money". Tax returns and transaction histories from Deutsche Bank, I am convinced, would answer all of our questions. Congress has the authority and good reason to subpoena both and should waste no time in doing so.
2
Putin periodically needs to change Trump's batteries and update his software.
That would explain his sometimes slurred speech.
LOL
All kidding aside,
It seems to me that the translators notes are equivalent to Nixon's White House tapes. Congress or Mueller should demand them using that legal precedent.
If he refuses to produce them, he should be held in contempt. (More than he already is?)
If he cannot produce them because they were destroyed, that is a criminal act. Documents relating to the operation of the government cannot be destroyed.
Trump needs to have his feet held to the fire. There is clearly something going on between the President of the United States and the President of our number on adversary.
Trump is a real life Manchurian Candidate and will be held accountable.
5
My only hope is that Trump is not passing secrets because he has none. Since he does not read, he knows nothing. The grown ups in the administration are telling Trump only what he needs to know. If this thought is not true, I better start learning Russian.
2
Treason! But why? I don't think 'kompromat' is the reason. The Access Hollywood tape was compromising enough, let alone all the other scandals. He would just deny, deny, deny it all to the end of time. I think Trump is betraying us for promises of wealth and power by Putin.
It makes the hairs on the back of my neck stand on end and nauseates me to contemplate. Imagine the response by our intelligence community.
As to the Republicans: I keep hoping that the leaders of the two parties in congress have actually been apprised of the intelligence and are stringing Trump along to enable the gathering of evidence that will secure his imprisonment and those of his conspirators.
"Lordy, I hope there are tapes."
4
@Kathy
Everyone likes to talk about the infamous Pee Tapes, if indeed they exist.
By now we know that Trump is immune to embarrassment. Access Hollywood, Pee Tapes, they won't change anything.
But...
It's all about the money. As they did in Watergate, they are following the money which may very well lead to Russia and Putin doorstep, where they will find much of Trump's recent wealth has come from. That's the real kompromat.
The only thing that Trump responds to is money. The only thing that is going to bring him down is money, because it leaves a traceable trail.
4
For my vote and voice, this fact alone is a huge reason for the removal of Trump from the White House. How more differently and secretly an agent of a foreign power would behave than Trump is doing?
This man is a clear and present danger to our country. For the millions he has received from Russians, he's not only mortgaged himself and his businesses to Putin, he's selling out all of us, too. Whether he's removed by his cabinet or the Congress - however they do, it must be done quickly, forthwith. Time is not with us.
1
It seems to me given the secrecy of Trump’s meetings with Putin that direct collusion is going to be difficult to prove. But on balance the circumstantial evidence and the direct evidence of favoritism and promotion of Russian interests, when combine suggest high crimes and misdemeanors are occurring right in front of us on a daily basis. He denies it, but the evidence suggest otherwise. How can anyone believe him? He’s a proven liar, and fraud but all other accounts.
“The wall,” the government shut down and all the other distractions he engages in are really designed to cripple and destroy our democratic processes and the normal course of government. He should be impeached and brought to account before the Senate.
4
We’re so afraid of Russia. The EU countries would love to beat us to the punch when it comes to doing business there. Russia is a vast market whose economic potential has barely been touched. If there is anything Trump and Putin were talking about in secret, it was opening up that market for American companies and business interests leaving the duplicitous and hypocritical EU, who don’t even want to pay for their own military defense, screaming bloody murder. Do we really want to see BMW and Mercedes or Toyotas and Nissans dominating the auto market there there instead of Fords and GM cars? After the 2020 elections, we’re going to see some major announcement on a trade deal with Russia which will have Europe and the Asian countries crying their heads off, but America will be the better off for it. It will be a major win for so-called nationalism over global interests that would elevate multilateral trade agreements favoring global corporatism over bilateral agreements between individual nation states. This is Trump’s vision, and it will be the greatest shift in geo-political interests and global alignments since the end of the Cold War. That is how a truly great President governs by putting America first.
1
@Edward Most Russians would have to sell a kidney or a child in order to purchase a Nissan. It's a vast market in geographical terms only. Do they talk about economics on Fox "news"?
2
And their economy on par with Texas.
Trump had spoken to Putin five times in the last two years. And the administration has been kept in the dark about what exactly the two were talking about, because Trump didn’t want any aides to be around, and he confiscated notes taken by his own interpreters and forbid them to disclose their content.
American intelligence agencies had to eavesdrop Russian officials or through other means of surveillance to learn about what an American president had said to their president.
Come on, give me a break! How much worse can it get? Trump's whole behaviour reeks of treason.
10
I feel hopeless. We are watching the U.S. being completely destroyed in slow motion. Articles are printed outlining outrageous and unprecedented behavior. Former high level government officials are making statements declaring extreme alarm. Opinion pages and editorials are expressing high alert warnings. Yet nothing happens to rein in this madman who is destroying our country. Mueller is too slow. Republicans are complicit. They had the power to investigate and they failed. It's amazing that so many people don't seem to hear the alarm bells ringing non stop. We should all be marching in the streets until Trump is OUT!
504
@Celeste I so agree. It makes me feel hopeless also. The train is out of control and picking up speed and this country is headed for a disaster. I am so tired of all the opinions and explanations of what is going on and no way to stop the madness. Putin is getting what he wants. How does one NOT feel helpless and hopeless now...what is there to have faith in in our government?
55
I hope you are doing something to protect the one thing you value most about the good life we have enjoyed since Teddy/FDR/Elanor Roosevelt initiated social safety and environmental safeguards, Celeste.
There are grassroots movements taking place across America and the best way to get rid of hopelessness is to do something to change the current trajectory.
It helps immensely to join others who share your ideas and values. Thank You if you are already one of the "actors for change".
41
@lolo I agree and i am becoming a bit terrified myself. Why is nothing happening? Isn't trump liable for possible treason?
28
I haven't seen any mention of it but I wonder if the closed door discussions were about personal financial dealings. Putin's investments in Trump's businesses and conversely, Trump's investments in Russian businesses. Or money laundering of Putin and Trump's illicit incomes.
7
I don’t see what all the fuss is about. #45’s behavior is totally understandable. Wouldn’t you want some privacy when you’re getting briefed by your handler? Any former KGB agent could tell you that.
13
Francois Strauss. Perhaps Putin’s men use MacDonald’s hamburger boxes as their “dead drop” for their communication with their man in the WH......perhaps that is why Trump is obsessed with MacDonald’s.
3
There are suspicions that Russian oligarchs, under Putin, have been laundering money (stolen from former state owned interests) through Trump's businesses (primarily Trump's NY real estate enterprises) for decades. The fact Trump won't disclose what he and Putin discuss only makes these suspicions seem more credible.
9
As the executive, the president has the right to speak with foreign leaders in the manner in which he chooses.
Governments have always had secrets.
Pursuing interpreters to find out what was said is offensive—pure politics getting in the way of government.
It has always been the far right wearing the tin foil hats, but for the last two years it’s been the Trump-hating left.
3
That argument evaporates when you find that Trump is hiding this info from even his own staff. That's problematic on a number of levels.
Then weigh that extreme secrecy against:
1) the dozens and dozens of contacts between Russia and a Trump campaign that initially denied ANY contact with Russia.
2) a growing list of maneuvers and concessions that help Putin.
3) Trump's un-American fawning over and defense of Putin and other dictators.
6
@MR
If Roosevelt had met with Hitler without his staff present and refused to say what was discussed, he would have been run out of Washington on the first train out of Union Station.
Just because the president has the right to do whatever he wants, doesn't mean he should. Past presidents, Democratic and Republican, have always gone into diplomatic meetings surrounded by White House and State Department staff. Records of all meetings were kept, even if they weren't made public.
Trump is in no way qualified to be alone with any foreign dignitary, friend or foe. Wars have started over minor infractions in protocol and Trump hasn't got an inkling about what protocol is. That was evident from day one of his presidency when he took his first phone call with Taiwan.
This is not a partisan political issue. It is one of National Security that should have everyone alarmed, even Trump's base.
We should all be American patriots before we are Republican or Democrat.
9
Never, ever in our history has ANY prior president spoken to another world leader without transcripts being provided! Never! Donald’s behavior wreaks of treason!
7
The pattern of periodic "secret" conversations emerging here, coupled with the fact the Putin, through his oligarchs, has been indirectly dealing with Trump for around 30 years in the real estate business including financial arrangements following Trump's bankruptcies makes everything about Trump' relationship with Putin suspect. Putin is more likely than not a Trump puppetmaster and the puppet himself is too self absorbed to even know it...or worse for America, care.
Couple those realities with the fact that we now know of over 100 less than candidly admitted contacts between Russians and the Trump campaign and administration officials like Manafort, Sessions, Trump's kids and others and there is more than enough smoke to be sure there is good reason to be concerned about a real fire with Putin fanning the flames.
Pompously innocent or not, keeping this serial liar in office is no longer worth the risk to either our national security or to the pursuit of the Mandates of our Constitution's Preamble. He represents a potential existential threat and, technically innocent of High Crimes or not, he is clearly guilty of Misdemeanors if we choose to define them any number of ways. He needs to go for the good of the nation.
But sadly, too many American's have been Foxed into a Trumpster cult of blind followers, acting like lemmings heading over the proverbial cliff with their little Red (like the old USSR red?) MAGA caps on and chants of "Lock Her Up" and "Build That Wall."
7
More than likely, "Trump huddled with [Putin at the dinner before flying back] to decide how to respond to the emerging story by other Times reporters about the Trump Tower meeting."
There is no more obvious PROOF of trump's disregard for the national security of our country than his openly clandestine meetings with a his former KGB handler. After all, Jared and Flynn sought a clandestine secure communications channel directly with the Russians - by the way, did they succeed? That is not unorthodox. That is treasonously suspicious. If he's a traitor discussing traitorous subjects with a formidable foe, yes he'd want to keep it secret and avoid any possibility of getting "burned." Legitimate talk of state - how would he be burned by a leak?
What's the point of a meeting between heads of state if everything about it is a secret - especially from your own team, no less? Reached important agreements? Like what? How do we implement these secret agreements if no one knows what they are? Maybe the American people do not want to leave NATO.
How does the world take the word, any word, of a pathological liar and a team of liars running this country into the ground - just look around at the disaster unfolding that matches Putin's dream outcomes.
With trump in office, Putin no longer has to push America around - he owns trump hook, line and stinker to do it for him.
3
Putin’s agenda to defeat the US appears to be long. His main operative, seems to be accomplishing quite a bit in just two years.
This week, with the May’s government on shaky grounds, US partial shutdown in its twenty sixth’s day, Putin has an ear to ear smile.
Good job 45
Are we winning yet??
10
It can just be trump needs to hide his incompetence so that's why he doesn't want the leaks. At one such meeting trump gave away privately guarded information provided by Israel to Putin which led to bad press for our wet behind the ears President. There was the news conference were trump was sticking up for Putin by telling the world media that just like Putin we as a nation murder people or when trump agreed with Putin that his hackers are to good to be caught, which I'm sure made our intelligence community feel proud. No I just think like Putin does, trump's incompetence is the gift to Putin that keeps giving and as long as trump represents America Putin will become stronger along with his allies as trump's incompetence leads him to constantly berate our allies. I believe that Putin doesn't have anything on trump, I also believe that Putin knows he doesn't need anything on trump, the incompetence of trump is all Putin needed
1
Time and again the man of wax occupying the White House attacks the integrity of our institutions -- the very institutions that hold criminal thuggery to account (DOJ, EPA, the media, et al). And time and again it becomes increasingly clear the NRA, Fox-News, Koch Brothers' sponsored, Mitch McConnell "led" Senate are accomplices and enablers of those attacks, and complicit to the pattern of blatant criminal behavior of the White House occupier who has sold out our country to an ex-KGB agent intent on the destruction of democracy here and abroad. Thank you NYT for the public service you do.
4
I’d like to hear whether his meetings with other leaders are similarly “blacked out.” Is this now his standard practice after the first couple of leaked transcripts? Or is it special treatment for Putin?
My bet is that Trump agreed to return Alaska to Russia, in exchange for a few $billion in loans to the Trump Organization.
2
I don't know if Trump is a Russian "agent," but he sure acts like one! No one has done more for long-term Russian policy to destroy the West than Trump. If he is not an agent, he is a dupe, a fool and a patsy. Not such a good record for our "stable genius." He will drag our nation into the sewer, undoing 70 years of progress. MAGA indeed!
6
Something is rotten in Denmark. And Helsinki. And definitely in the White House!
6
Putin wants Trump to leave NATO.
2
@Jacob Opper
And I want Trump to leave the White House.
One of them is going to happen.
Guess which one.
2
Putin was a highly trained KGB agent. I would think he is fluid in English language. So why does he need an "interpreter" at meetings with Trump?
3
Having an interpreter, Putin has notes. Trouble is Donald’s interpreter’s notes were taken by Donald. Usually, those are given to a president’s foreign policy team. What is Donald hiding? Also, Putin and Donald met another time (they’ve met five times in the last two years, unheard of.) without a U.S. interpreter, only Putin’s interpreter present. Why? It smells! Badly.
4
where there is smoke..there is often fire...
3
Some things really are not as complicated as people want to make them out to be. Trump does not have a plan to deal with the shutdown...he doesn't know how diplomacy works...he lies continually...and when his campaign has 100 connections with someone Russian and his campaign and administration staff have been indicted and he is known to have dishonestly drafted an alternative narrative about that infamous meeting on "Russian adoption" and on top of it all, he doesn't let a soul know what's going on in conversation with the leader of Russia...well, that's not complicated.
It is what it looks like, which is collusion or conspiracy or treason or whatever name you wish to put to it. As president, he is serving another master and the American people are being shafted...it's that simple. There is plenty of proof, and we don't all have to wait until Doomsday to take action that would protect our nation.
So, GOP member of Congress, please admit that when you see a duck, and hear a duck, it is a duck...or in the case of Trump, a Russian quack.
6
Besides trump let's look at the GOP: The GOP didn't care if Russia was in the ball game to defeat Hillary. The GOP, Mitch and the boys, gave Russia a thumbs-up! Thirty million dollars to the NRA, not a problem! The GOP, Mitch and the boys are covering Putin's puppet because they were in on the Russian collusion in 2016. Anything to defeat the Devil, Lock-her-up, Hillary!
7
Why should anybody be surprised about our suspicions that Trump is a traitor or a fifth columnist for his private interests with Moscow...when Trump made sure his chats with Putin were kept under wraps? This weasel of a president cannot be trusted, not in the least. The only remedy is his ouster, and hope we can rescue this suffering democracy from neglect if not malpractice. And the sooner the better.
2
Coming to a street corner near you; RED DAWN 3 it is not a movie. Putin & Kim will assist Donald in maintaining order in America by sending troops.
Wake up folks this happening...
I think people are giving Trump too much credit, that is, credit for deliberately having a nefarious purpose. Compare Trump's off the cuff statements to his canned speeches. I'd bet the reason he has private meetings with Putin and refuses to disclose the substance of those meetings is that he is so ignorant and incompetent that without a teleprompter to tell him what to say, the actual discussions are meaningless. Whenever there is some substance to the discussions, Trump knows that the idiotic statements he may have made will be reversed afterwards after he is admonished by those in the know, as they so often are anyway.
1
Our very own Manchurian candidate happens to be a leader of the party that browbeats about how pro-american they are.
7
The NYT assumes that the Trump and Putin conversations were nefarious due to the fact that no transcripts are made available to his staff or the public. This is beyond non sequiturous, it's extremely sophomoric. The fact is the NYT has no way of knowing what was said during those conversations or if those were the only conversations between the two world leaders.
Hanging a person out to dry because of substantiated facts is one thing; throwing them into the court of public opinion based on conjecture is another. Let's allow the Mueller investigation to finish before we commence with the dogpile.
1
Has anyone asked Putin?
If this were done by a Democrat the GOP would have long ago had them out in the street, destroyed, disemboweled, out of commission.
The man has so many Russian ties that he should have to register as an agent of a foreign power.
Maybe he is just a giant matroshka ( Russian nesting doll) where, as we remove the various dolls within we finally reach one of a grinning Putin.
2
To paraphrase President Trump, "Russia, if you're listening..." find and release the missing transcripts of all the private Putin-Trump meetings.
2
It could be that Putin is getting exactly what he planned for from the dawn of the election meddling. Placing an incompetent, immoral abomination in the oval office has proven to be a genius stroke in destabilizing the United States of America, and all of our traditional western allies.
It could also be that Trump was as ignorant to being played like a marionette as he is to so very many other things.
What may have begun as one sided gamesmanship by the Russian with no collusion from his dullard target, has now become a yuge bloodless victory for Putin.
Whether Trump was involved in the plan or just too stupid to realize he was trapped, there is no escape for him now.
2
This is nothing but speculation and innuendo. The NYT would do better to focus on real news.
1
@Edward Yeah, all those indictments, guilty pleas and unreported meetings with Russian operatives are meaningless.
3
Now I wish I had taken Russian as a foreign language in college.
How many times can Trump tiptoe around treason (and for all we know, step right in it), before we say "Basta!"? There is nothing about his meetings with other heads of state that is similar to his rendezvouses with Putin, in terms of transparency, despite Trump's protests to the contrary.
Trump continues to normalize crazy.
2
Nothing has smelt more of treason than this.
1
Imagine if Obama had had this sort of relationship with say, Muammar Gaddafi? Trump's relationship with Putin is WHITE PRIVILEGE on steroids.
2
This is simple. As usual, Trump is out for Trump's best business interests, and wants to make money in Russia, so he will say and do anything for Putin in the process. He knows he isn't supposed to be forwarding his business interests in his presidential capacity, so he has taken actions to keep his negotiations secret. Trump is just too simple-minded to have it be more complicated than that, and Putin is laughing all the way to the bank while also benefitting from Trump blindly spewing Russian viewpoints that are fed to him during the "secret" conversations. Trump is a bought puppet.
1
I can't conceive of any explanation for Republican inaction other than *fingers in ears* "La La La! Is Ginsberg still around? La La La! Is Ginsberg still around?" We may see some fair weather, too little too late, patriotism from top Republicans following an appointment of Ginsberg's replacement.
1
"NO COLLUSION"!!!! Maybe Trump doesn't understand the meaning of "collusion", or maybe he doesn't understand the meaning of "No".
Before the actual 2016 election date Trump was already moaning about voter imagined fraud in public statements. Might his fear about voter fraud by the opposition be due to his knowledge of attempted election meddling on his behalf? What did this president know and when did he know it? What did Trump promise Putin behind closed doors? And what did Putin Promise Trump?
Peter Baker has quite an imagination.
Perhaps the conspiracy theorists would love to add Russia into the mix. Trump and Putin are conspiring to take over the world. They want to annex Syria, North Korea, Somalia, Kenya, Chad, France, Germany and other such cases into their basket. Add Bangladesh and Venezuela for good measure.
A long time ago, in his book “With No Apologies,” former Senator Barry Goldwater suggested that the Trilateral Commission was "a skillful, coordinated effort to seize control and consolidate the four centers of power: political, monetary, intellectual, and ecclesiastical... [in] the creation of a worldwide economic power superior to the political governments of the nation-states involved.”
I believe that it is Melanija Knavs is the secret planner. Hey, growing up in the former Yugoslavia, she may speak Ruski and would translate for Putin.
We should be convinced that history repeats and Trump is forming a "Bilateral Commission" with his buddy Putin. The Liberal Arts crowd in American universities should start teaching Russian as a required part of the curriculum.
You never know when Trump plans to paint the White House red and the Duma commissars start dictating directives from the Moskva Oblisk.
2
Donald must owe the Russians lots of money. Or it is about Trump Tower Moscow. Donald loves Russia because they are mainly white. He loves Putin because he is a super rich powerful crook who controls the media and has robbed his people blind. It is very strange and extremely scary. I hope we get to see Mueller's findings. Will Congress impeach him if we find out he is a witting asset of the Russians?
Stay tuned.
2
“Putin is privy to what the two discussed — why can’t senior administration officials be trusted and looped in too?”
Because there were and still are President Trump resisters who leak sensitive information to a media that spins that information into anti-republican anti-Trump "news"
1
“Of course I was disappointed with Helsinki, but I do not just look at how the president handles specific meetings with Putin,” said Luke Coffey, a foreign policy scholar at the Heritage Foundation. “Instead, I’m most interested in what the actual policies are coming out of the administration.”
translation:
"I don't care if crime or treason are being committed...as long as I'm getting what I want..."
3
Mystery? Nah. Simple.
Five times: surrender, yes sir, surrender, yes sir, surrender, yes sir, surrender, yes sir.
Done.
2
This is just more evidence that the truth is FINALLY emerging, hopefully in time to save our Republic. Trump is clearly a willing agent of Russian efforts to undermine our Republic. He must be impeached and removed ASAP.
2
The wing of ultra conservatives within our government were responsible for the assassination of President John F. Kennedy. This same mind set, backed by the christian evangelist are Trump supporters.
1
This is frightening. Donald Trump, the current president of the United States, could quite literally be a Russian mole. Can anyone else think of a bigger national security threat other than climate change and DJT?
1
Conflating conspiracy to defraud our country with obstruction of justice- in plain sight.
Whatdya Mr. Barr?
1
As they say, “if it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck”. Donald Trump has done everything possible to telegraph his nefarious intentions to the American people and the world. But because the Republican Party is the embodiment of the “Three Wise Monkeys” who “see no evil, hear no evil, and speak no evil, they choose to turn a blind eye. To his supporters who excuse that behavior by pointing out that he is an unconventional president, I would say yes, treasonous behavior by the President of the United States certainly qualifies as unconventional.
If Trump acted appropriately and with the best interests of his country in mind, he would have been far more transparent in his meetings with Vladimir Putin. Is he hiding something? You bet!
2
Ronald Reagan is rolling over in his grave.
1
Subpoena the notes! Any other person would be questioned about this, but not Trump. Funny how Trump calls for a wall to keep out terrorists, but the real threat sits in the White House.
2
The real mystery is couldn’t Putin find someone more corrupt than Individual 1 ?
@Jack, no I don't think so. i bet RUSSIA has been cultivating him for years..Someone posted Dunning Kruger syndrome a couple days ago. Fits Trump. With other possible diagnosis the length of your arm...
Clearly he is hiding the conversations because they would show he is working with or working for Putin.
1
This is the President of the United States we are talking about , shouldn't the headline read- Why what was said is a Mystery. This man has sworn a oath "To protect and up hold the Constitution." That applies to him in every conversation and action he has period.
What possible sensitive material could have been discussed with Putin, that it cant be revealed? Why were not trusted cabinet people in the room to be witness- hello Secretary of Defense? It just seems common sense to have someone in the room who could validate what the sensitive topics were discussed-plus to avoid the appearance of any improprieties.
All this conversation that a seated president cant be indicted, whaaat? The President is a the # 1 citizen of the United States,. Our government is a system of check and balances, rules and laws "that we hold true." So the theory floating around is the President can shoot someone on Madison Avenue in NYC and not be arrested or jailed until after he/she leaves office. This is not America becoming Great Again- it is America becoming a state of Sham.
3
How is this even allowed to go on? The POTUS is an elected official by the people of the U.S., not an appointed king! An investigation in what was said to Putin on behalf of the American people should be a priority and not a back page story. To hear that Trump allegedly destroyed the notes from the one and only translator should have us all concerned and bode the questions: What is Trump hiding? What does Putin have over Trump? Is this all about money or is there something else going on? We deserve to know... now!
1
They talked about this--about that!
But what did they TALK about? Fat
Chance WE''LL ever know!
So we go with the flow
Frowning--muttering, "I smell a RAT."
1
Do this now. Do not wait. Arrest the president of Russia for his crimes against this country. Bring him in for questioning and hold him until the investigation is completed and he can be tried. Put the kids and family members on the "no-fly list." And/or, bring the kids in for questioning and hold them.
Stop the treason and chaos. Trump is going to get a lot of people killed if we do not stop him now.
1
Every meeting begins with Trump asking Putin, "Okay, what else do I have to do to get my hotel in Moscow? I've done everything you've told me to, right?"
2
It is way past time for this corrupt president and his entire crime organization to go to jail.
Someone needs to step up and do the deed before our democracy is gone.
1
My vote is that President Twump has been illegally laundering Russian money for years. The two secrets he jealously guards the most are his relations with Russians and his income taxes
4
Why have an interpreter at all? It's my understanding that the Russian president speaks English just fine. Perhaps his accent and dialect are a bit dated?
It boggles the mind why this man is not pacing behind bars instead of 'smugging' behind Old Resolute.
1
So according to the Times logic when Roosevelt,Stalin and Churchill met during WW 2 they should have revealed the D day plans to the media or it was nefarious collusion.
@xelauke They were allies, Russia is not an ally and interfered in the US election of 2016. This is a fact and separate from any possible collusion with Trump and Russia. So that leads us to why are they meeting? Why is it secret? Why didn't Trump condemn Putin in Helsinki when the CIA and FBI both had facts that Russia interfered? Instead he said he believes Putin. These are red flags and deserve to be investigated.
3
Please correct me if I am wrong, but weren’t the Allies, well, allies?
1
"...he has reason to feel burned since previous interactions with foreign leaders have leaked, including full transcripts of telephone calls with the leaders of Mexico and Australia published in The Washington Post."
All previous presidents have had moments of disagreement with leaders of other countries, but that doesn't mean we've had leaks about all of them.
What does tend to make people talk, is when they're abused and disrespected...something Trump does on a moment by moment basis to everyone from his staff to his counterparts in other countries to the wives he cheats on.
If Trump doesn't want leaks, maybe it's the guy he sees in the mirror who's really responsible for those leaks!
3
Wouldn’t meeting notes and tax returns being made public end all the speculation? What’s the big deal? It’s not that complicated. Don’t Republicans and Mitch McConnell want transparency after campaigning hard on Hilary’s lack of it. Mitch McConnell spoke fervently about how Hilary and her scandals would be a major distraction. How is this different?
1
If Michael Cohen originally wasn't planning to be asked about the pre-election plans and schemes for Trump Tower Moscow when he sits in front of the House on February 7th, I have a feeling he is going to be asked an awful lot of questions about it now.
1
Anything trump has done to be "tough on Russia" begins to look extraordinarily weak when you consider that any of the 2016 candidates would have done the same, if not more. And none of them would have advanced Putin's number one goal of undermining and weakening both our democracy and NATO.
But he has done only one thing that no other President would do -- weaken both our democracy and NATO.
3
The GOP puts up with this because their election coffers are filled by who demand obeisance — just like Trump. They figure at this point that so long as government remains dysfunctional they are winning. Just look at every other tyrannical government in the world. They all operate for the benefit of the monied elite. It isn’t the brainiac elites who benefit. It’s the big business elites (at least for a while), and the military suppliers, and the close buddies of the tyrant. Senate Republicans care more for their own positions than they do for the nation, especially Mitch McConnell, who clearly couldn’t care less what Putin and Trump discussed so long as Conservatives fill the Courts and all other positions.
2
After Helsinki Russian officials stated that "important agreements" were reached. Well, what were they? Don't Congress and the American people have the right to know what those agreements were? Did any of those agreements have to do with Russia's aluminum magnate Oleg Deripaska? It is outrageous that Republicans are allowing this to happen with no oversight.
5
If, as has been reported, notes and translations taken and recorded at some or all of these meetings and then destroyed, would that not be an unlawful destruction of official government documents? And if that is the case, should that not prompt some form of legal action against President Trump?
Russia, if you're reading this I hope you'll find your version of these documents and make them public so that the American people can know the depth of corruption that infects their presidency.
2
As an apparent clinical narcissist, Donald Trump has one thing on his mind. Himself. And that includes eventually building a Trump Tower in Russia. Thus, any interaction with Putin, hidden or not, has one thing in common, ensuring nothing is said or done to interfere with that overriding self-serving long-term obsession.
5
Well, at least we have a pretty good idea what Trump said every time: "Yes Sir!"
2
"unorthodox president in so many ways that it does not prove anything untoward."
Actually it points to everything untoward. Putin is winning!
1
I would like to see exploration of the mainline republican and conservative thinkers' support for Russia, its form of government, and admiration for its accomplishments.
Somehow, unsolicited, I was put on the Hillside College's (a college in Michigan) mailing list for its newsletter. This periodic newsletter is full of essays by mainstream conservatives and republicans who write in support of Russia and Putin. I, too was puzzled by the right's support of Russia until I read the first newsletter that showed up in my mail box about 2 years ago. The Russia support and cheerleading is mainstream among conservative writers. Now, I see that Trump's and his party's behavior is designed to support their new alliance. From my reading, it seems that the fascination with Russia stems from seeing an authoritarian regime as a good way to make laws and customs in the US that follow the philosophy of evangelical Christianity, on such matters as abortion, family relations, women's rights, contraception, etc.
Please, NYT, explore this and make it known widely.
3
Didn't Trump promise "transparency" in his administration? Oh, I forget. Those were just words.
We can't take anything he says seriously.
Next question: What does he not want the American people, including his "base," to know? And why aren't more of our representatives in government asking that question publicly?
It is time for Trump to step down.
2
What will it take for the Republicans to admit that they can no longer continue to let this president go unchallenged and unchaperoned? Their recalcitrant and rebellious little child is clearly out of control.
3
Had Trump been truly discussing and defending American interests, he would have released the notes himself. He would then be able to crow about his "big brain" and his unrivaled negotiating "skills".
3
While I generally understand that certain conversations—or elements of conversations—need to be confidential, in the end the president works for the American people, and we ultimately have a right to know what was said on our behalf, especially if it might endanger our national security or national interests.
3
I suspect that Trump has destroyed the interpreter's notes that he seized. Under the circumstances, given that these notes relate to an otherwise secret meeting with our sworn enemy, why would this alone not amount to an impeachable offense?
2
I remember reading or hearing somewhere...Someone came into Trumps office and Trump picked up a piece of paper on his desk and ate it...
Whatever was said in those meetings, there has not been any ensuing shooting war despite the constant provocations of everyone from MSNBC to the National Review. Also those Russian ICBMs remain safely ensconced in their silos, despite daily condemnations of the person with his finger on the button by a whole coalition of talking heads including those who participated in the invasion of Iraq behind their now sainted leader, W. Bush. Imagine a Russian version of W or Hillary instead of killer Putin at the helm. That would be reason to worry.
1
David Laufman was chief of the DOJ Division of Counterintel. He recently stated, "Now is the time for all good men (and women) to come to the aid of their country." Also said Trump is "a clear and present danger" to our country. The evidence is mounting - these mentioned conversations between Trump and Putin, all Trump's efforts to not criticize Putin and actually do as he wishes (Putin's puppet) and now saying he would like to pull out of NATO. Even Manafort was continuing to contact the White House in 2018 - apparently important enough to lie about it and risk his own situation. I heard a comment on the news last evening that was chilling - that Manafort was willing to compromise his own situation by continuing to contact the White House because he was covering up something bigger and more important than his own self interest. Wow! Mueller can't finish his investigation soon enough!
3
You can guess what was said at those meetings with Putin by what he has done so far to favor Russian objectives.
2
Christopher Steele, if you're listening, I hope you're able to find the Putin Trump meeting notes that are missing. Trump apparently misplaced his copies in the fireplace.
2
Has Trump broken any laws by meeting privately with Putin or other world leaders? At least a majority of the electoral college believed in this man enough to elect him President. This means he deserves the benefit of the doubt. Until he is convicted of a crime he is not a criminal and anyone that only receives information from one source, like Fox News or The Times does not know enough about the situation to have a real opinion, they are just parroting the opinion of someone else who may or may not have reason to lie or make something up.
Trump acts subservient to Putin. He is also secretive about their interactions. Many of his top people met with Russians before the election. Trump is withdrawing troops from Syria and other places Russia benefits from US withdrawals. The question is why. The answer is obvious: Trump has committed treason against the US, and no one here seems to care or try to do anything about. Trump along with his vice president should be removed from office for treason. His Court appointees should be removed as well. His government is illegitimate. Trump subverted the US Constitution and cheated his way to the presidency.
2
I can answer this question for Muller, anyone with a brain can. trump did not want any witnesses to his meetings with Putin because he’s not working for the American people, not even for the ones that elected him. He’s working only for himself. Whether or not he has committed treason is yet to be discovered, but why we would allow a person who was elected to serve the American public but is not to remain in place is so vexing that I struggle to come up with an adjective that can encompass my anger and disgust.
3
Don't trust anyone that trusts Putin - that's my motto and a good one.
3
Trump And Putin Have Met Five Times SINCE TRUMP WAS ELECTED.
Trump sought to be ambassador to the USSR when Reagan was in office -- so any word yet on how many times Trump has actually met with Russian leadership?
Don't forget that Trump claimed to know Putin during the primaries before he claimed to NOT know him during the general election.
It's insulting how bad a liar Trump is. One hopes he doesn't get away with it much longer.
Godspeed, Mr Mueller!
6
Ronald Reagan met with Gorbachev alone, behind closed doors, when he was president and almost immediately the Soviet Union was dissolved. State owned - meaning people-owned - organizations were "privatized" and each citizen was given stock. Of course they didn't know what to do with the stock so they sold it for virtually nothing to the Robber Barons who are now the Russian Mafia with Putin one of the richest people on the planet.
The Con Don was probably planning how he and the International Mafia can do the same thing to OUR United States of America. They have already gotten control of OUR U.S. Senate, OUR white house, until recently OUR U.S. Congress, OUR U.S. Supreme Court and OUR financial system.
What they didn't plan on is WE THE PEOPLE rising as one to stop them.
People in power in OUR political/legal/military/secret service complexes must join forces, put The Con Don, Minister Pence and Traitor Mitch McConnell under citizen's arrest and hold them for prosecution for treason against OUR democracy.
Speaker Pelosi would become OUR President and can immediately dismiss all The Con Don's cabinet/regulatory and judicial appointments and rescind his "executive" orders. That will set OUR United States of America back on the path the majority of us want.
NOW IS THE TIME FOR ALL GOOD PEOPLE TO COME TO THE AID OF THEIR COUNTRY.
14
I see the NY Times tried to bury my comment again. Once my comments get a few likes they bury them with comments that have been held back for approval.
I guess the media people are the only ones who have freedom of speech at the NY Times..
3
With the UK in turmoil, the US government shut down, our country deeply divided politically and racial tensions stoked, and the president regularly questioning the value of NATO, Vladamir Putin seems to have accomplished a good number of his goals. International alliances weakened, democracy itself in question, the world order upended.
I need to believe that the moral arc of the universe bends towards justice, but it will take a long long time for the world to recover from this chaotic and troubling time.
28
Not if enough of us act right now, 10lbmustache.
2
What transpired between Trump and Putin on those 5 occasions might be a mystery, but that should not matter because the half-life of whatever he says is a few minutes at best. Wait a little longer and ask Trump again and he will give you an answer that assures him your vote in the coming election.
6
Because of Trumps character and past behavior it is conceivable that he is in absolute thrall to Putin. The rhythm of massive ProPutin actions are followed by silly unsupported "strong stands" against Putin, to enable the Trump spokestraitors to keep the very basest of the Trump base confused. It all fits like puzzle pieces. Provable or not, the idea that Trump is a possible Russian agent is not at all far-fetched. That alone makes sane Americans look at the current "Republican" congressmen-especially McConnell - as the possible enabler.
2
Just whose side is trump on?
Next we'll read that trump has been taking adult night language classes to speak Russian.
For trump it's likely about doing trump empire business with Russia and his personal bottomline profits.
8
Trump is not schooled in statecraft and has demonstrated his contempt for the workings of our constitutional system. His ignorance of history and his echo of Russian propaganda with regard to Afghanistan and acceptance of Putin's denial of election interference speaks volumes. There is stated concern by former heads of intelligence agencies that Trump is a Russian asset. The only question is willfully so or just out of being clueless. I think it's a bit of each.
8
"Trump is surrounded by leakers. Why would he trust them with his Putin notes?" This title from a recent Op-Ed from WaPo sums it all up. Trump has repeatedly seen the classified details of his conversations with world leaders leak to the media. Full transcripts of Trump’s phone calls with: Australian Prime Minister, Mexican President, with Philippine President, two conversations with Brittain's PM, and, of course, voluminous leaks of his communications with Russian officials.
Regardless of one's opinion of Trump (I do not have a positive one), this is no way to run a country, it's a joke. These leakers should be stopped, just like Pres. Obama went after them, incl. threatening to jail a journalist of this paper for not disclosing the source of the leaks.
2
Do you understand that democracy dies in darkness? Truth is not an option, it is a must!
2
@Chuck There is a difference between checks and balances vs. uncontrolled leaks. I do not have a problem with Congress' oversight, but I do have a problem with leaks.
Well, what is it that is so damaging it must be shielded from the American public?
1
He said that after the next election he will have more flexibility.
4
Today is 01.16.19 Two years of division, cruelty, chaos and confusion - it's enough don't you think?
Trump has never made the transition from private citizen to public servant. He doesn’t understand he is now accountable for his actions to the American people, so while he can say anything he wants as a corrupt businessman and hope not to get caught, as president he is now fully accountable. Blaming “fake news” and liberal Democrats will only take Trump so far. Something fishy is going on with Putin. And at five separate meetings no less!
To justify Trump’s nefarious actions as “unorthodox” is just cover for his lies, chaos, and corruption, completely unacceptable behavior for a U.S. President.
10
"Mr. Trump’s defenders acknowledge Mr. Trump’s approach does not resemble the way his predecessors operated, but note that he has been an unorthodox president in so many ways that it does not prove anything untoward..."
It doesn't matter if anything untoward is proved or disproved, ANY president should be memorializing information and disseminating it to appropriate persons within the government.
Why?...because we are not a dictatorship, so if anything happens to the ONLY person in the room who truly knows what went down...the ENTIRE COUNTRY is out of luck.
While Trump may feel this behavior and approach serve him well personally, they don't serve the country well at all...and he is SUPPOSED to serve the country...that's what the president is supposed to do!
6
I literally gasped when I read about the timing of their private dinner conversation and the Air Force One presidential dictation of a lie. I wondered how Trump even knew about the adoption issue. Now we know. Incredible. Frightening. When will this all end? Soon I hope.
9
What is important is that what was said is NOT a mystery to the Russians; it is only a mystery to Americans including top White House officials. How can top White House officials like John Bolton meet with foreign heads of state or diplomats when the whole world knows that only Trump knows where America stands? How can the White House draw up policies? How can Republicans remain silent?
6
people have pointed out that past presidents have had off the cuff off the record chats with former world leaders. and while that's true they also didn't have a specter of working alongside these same leaders against their people looming over them.
context is king. if you have nothing to hid stop hiding.
5
It's obvious, because they are best buddies and co-investors in properties all over the world: They swapped favorite recipes for borsht, halavah, cheeseburgers and fries, gourmet caviar and wine, ice-cream delights, and more goodies. They also told jokes and scary stories about how they will control the earth's populations. It is possible that they held eaxh other during the telling of scary stories about either of them being put in prison ...
1
Luke Coffey's defense is laughable. The "toughest administration" line was never even remotely true. Every US action against Russia during this administration has taken place in spite of Trump, not because of him. We're currently having the same conversation over Deripaska.
Trump wants to remove sanctions placed on Russia in response to election meddling. He even sends Mnuchin out twice to make the case before Congress. That's not the first time Trump has tried to remove sanctions on Russia. Trump attempts to persuade European leaders Putin is their friend. He sides with Russia over the pipeline. Trump encourages a hard Brexit. Trump has a non-response to the Kerch Strait incident. Helsinki. Need I say more? There's still plenty more on the list as well.
Anyone spouting this absurd defense of Trump taking a hardline on Russia needs to be banned from intellectual discourse. The facts don't support the fiction. Repeating these ludicrous falsities won't make them anymore true. All you've accomplished is diminishing your own reputation. Coffey is forever one of the Trump people now. I certainly won't be giving him any respect, now or in the future.
7
Putin speaks English well. I want to know what the interpreters know, and I also want to know if there were times when they were dismissed. In any event, I would bet that Putin and Company have records of everything. Trump should know that Putin's strategy is to disrupt and won't care if Trump is collateral damage in that aim.
1
Trusting Trump reminds me of gas-lighting.
Follow one's common sense.
We have tremendous amounts of smoke.
Would you even trust someone like this at the office water cooler even in casual conversation ?
Perhaps they were discussing future real estate deals. From what I've read, Putin has tremendous amounts of money to invest.
2
Trump is MAYHEM personified. To paraphrase the insurance ad, “Are we protected from mayhem like Trump?” This president is creating chaos throughout our government (and world). What is stopping him? Are we in good hands?
6
Trump promised transparency, so far all we have gotten is obfuscation and lies.
5
Concerning President Trump’s one-on-one meeting with Putin in Helsinki last July, the former national-security council executive secretary and chief of staff and other senior U.S. officials know everything that was discussed. The real issue here is that some U.S. officials are irritated that they do not know what was discussed in this meeting and voiced their frustrations to the press.
The media’s claim that this story amounts to a U.S. president concealing his secret discussions with the Russian president as part of his alleged collusion with Russia is fake news. Senior U.S. officials knew exactly what was discussed in these meetings. This story is really about a successful effort by President Trump to prevent anti-Trump government officials from leaking sensitive national-security information to the press.
This from today's National Review by Fred Fleitz
Why be distracted by the “covert” when in realty, the overt is much more damaging to our democracy? Make a list of what actions Trump has taken to destroy our democracy, environment, healthcare, the list goes on and on, and balance them versus his secrets with Putin. The latter are vastly outweighed. For all I care, they could be planning their vacations at some Trump resort hotel. Focus on what he’s actually done, or tried to do, and keep your eyes on the ball, America!
1
They are literally pushing to repeal sanctions on Deripaska's company as we speak. I don't know how it could be more obvious.
2
Name one Democratic politician who engaged in this type activity - ever. Tell me with a straight face that if they had done so, the GOP and each and every member of GOP state run media would not have called for investigations and impeachment.
Isn't it long past-due to drop the niceties, and for every news organization to denounce the hypocrisy of each and every one of these GOP / Trump supporters?
6
We can deduce what was said by the President’s behavior and actions. It is in plain sight and the reporting extensive.
1. Debrief Trump on what is expected from Russia as secretly agreed prior to the 2016.
2. You must attack NATO and discuss in private with your cabinet that you would like to drop out of NATO. You must report back to us, by secret channel in place, what the reactions are from cabinet members.
3. You must simultaneously criticize European allies and demand payment in kind for the continued support of the USA. You must also engage in boorish behavior with all European allies. And, reserve special disdain for the German Chancellor Angela Merkel.
.....And on the story goes.
President Trump has been extremely consistent in his behavior and actions regarding his animosity towards every institutions and bureaucracies that makes the USA function as a multiracial society, and the wealthiest, and most powerful country in history. Every decision so far made by President Trump have been for the exclusive benefit of Putin.
There remains zero doubts in my mind that President Trump is a Russian asset. The problem we face now is that the USA has been check-mated by the Russia’s Putin. And, we don’t seem to have a mechanism to deal with it.
Meanwhile, the Senate Republicans have begun to resemble the walking dead. Their paralysis and astonishing inaction makes one wonder if they have also been compromised.
4
I’ve always been curious if trump is also trying to protect his children. After all they are all connected to Russian money vis a vis branding projects and likely money laundering - and Ivanka has some curious dealings with Wendi Deng who was once Putin’s squeeze.
1
What do the democrats think happened at the two hour meeting? Trump thanked Putin for help rigging the election? Your not going to say that if there is witness in the room. Even if that witness is an interpreter. I hope the democrats subpoena the interpreter. And find out that Trump called the democrats a variety of vulgarity packed insults. And that is why the notes were torn up.
1
““Instead, I’m most interested in what the actual policies are coming out of the administration.”
He cited additional sanctions, weapons sent to Ukraine, increased Pentagon spending meant to counter Russian aggression and opposition to a new Russian pipeline to Europe. ”
Is someone going to refute that? No, because it is true. I would add that Trump has threatened to withdraw from the INF, claiming that Russia has violated it. He withdrew from the treaty with Iran, against Putin’s wishes.
I wish people would stop cherry picking their facts. Trump is a corrupt dishonest man, but those liberals who claim he is doing everything Putin wants are lying through their teeth.
And this article is clearly meant to be slanted. Some of the facts I cited are in the middle of the piece, but the largely panicky tone is set by the usual folks who want a New Cold War, along with partisans who only care about facts which fit their narrative.
Btw, I will wait for Mueller to finish before deciding what to believe about collusion. But people should stop ignoring facts which don’t fit their narrative.
Understand everyone, Trump and Putin have a working back channel that allows them to communicate any time they want. One of Trump's family members (probably Jared Kushner) is the go-between. He is pulling out of NATO, allowing sanctioned officials off the hook, and pulling out of Syria. A few examples of the orders from Putin he is carrying out. He must be removed from office. He is a traitor.
5
Trump said:
Global warming is a hoax perpetrated by the Chinese.
Putin strongly denied interfering in our elections.
The Saudi king strongly denied that Prince MBS ordered the murder of Khashoggi.
He himself is a tech professional and does not work for Russia.
OK, no further questions.
5
In the article it reads, "Mr. Trump’s defenders acknowledge Mr. Trump’s approach does not resemble the way his predecessors operated, but note that he has been an unorthodox president in so many ways that it does not prove anything untoward." Seriously? It does not prove anything untoward?!? Sorry, if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it probably is a duck. Clearly, Trump has something to hide. His actions are treasonous, and this is why the FBI launched an investigation. Let's hope they're still on the job.
6
Honestly, I stopped reading when I saw the words "Heritage Foundation
".
Those who aren't suspicious about what was discussed at these secret meetings have their heads buried deeply in the sand.
6
It will continue to baffle me how Trump supporters are not bothered or seem to care that POTUS appears to place the values and needs of Russia over the US.
7
Confirmation bias is a common phenomenon plaguing small minds. “The fact that Trump didn’t want the State Department or members of the White House team to know what he was talking with Putin about suggests it was not about advancing our country’s national interest but something more problematic.” A perfectly obvious conclusion when you know, to a moral certainty, Trump is a traitor who wants to sell America out to Russia. Or, if you have intellectual honestly and a modicum of eduction, a clearly biased conclusion that violates Occam's razor. Did the author consider for a nanosecond that maybe Trump did not want others present to prevent the staffers from leaking to the press what was said? Leaks in this Whitehouse are as common as the press launching nonstop vituperative attacks against the President. Think for yourself, keep and open mind and understand liberalism is a lazy mind’s path toward national degradation.
If America and Trump are so bad, why do so many wish to come here? If racism and class warfare make America so bad, why is our economy so good? Liberals, look at how you view America and ask yourself why we remain the only superpower on earth if we are so misguided by capitalism, individual and Christian values? Makes you wonder. Unless your confirmation bias renders meaningless thought in your brain and self reflection of your soul.
1
@EWG
Here's an idea. Why not travel to Russia, Honduras, Iraq, Iran, Syria, the Democratic Republic of the Congo, the Philippines, China or any one of the several countries with significant numbers of its citizenry trying to emigrate to this country and see why for yourself.
It has nothing to do with Trump -- and everything to do with this Republic, and that for which it stands.
1
Even if one were to accept your premise that the logical conclusion was that the president was merely trying to prevent leaks that isn't necessarily a better scenario for those worried that the president is beholden to, or blackmailed by, Putin and his oligarchs. Let's assume for a moment that the president has done nothing wrong during these meetings. If he can't control leaks, that's another problem entirely, but without administration officials to witness the meetings, what's to stop Putin from announcing that during the meeting Trump agreed to allow Russian troops enter Belarus? Putin now has information about five secret meetings with our president that no other American has. How can that possibly be in our national interest?
2
But the fact remains, over 100 contacts between Trump campaign and Russia and countless lies by Trump, his family and campaign staffers when asked about contact with Russia. As for all the other things about liberalism, Let's take just one fact, we are a nation of immigrants that accepted all of our ancestors despite them being poor and uneducated and sometimes even ex convicts in their home countries. And through hard work and dedication made this country what it is. Liberalism does not mean lazy and give us handouts (unlike some Farmers who get subsidies for NOT farming, and government checks when their business is not profitable due to conservative policies such as Trump's). Liberalism means the field is level for anyone from any walk of life to get an education and the opportunities so that they may work hard and make of themselves something. Unlike conservatism that tries to say you must belong to group X (White), Y (religious) or Z (rich) in order to succeed and/or be good.
2
When is he going to resign in disgrace? He is worse than Nixon ever was. trump is treasonous.
11
This administration is complicit in a slow motion attack on our nation equivalent to Pearl Harbor.
8
"We owe allegiance to no Crown" - the United States sprang from a rebellion, if the GOP desn´t rise against Putin´s puppet America is definitely doomed
5
individual one is an ignorant agent of russia.
7
"I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the Russian Federation, and to the cash which the Kremlin provides me, one Russian Republic under Putin, indivisible, with liberty and justice for oligarchs."
- Donald J. Trump, Imposter-In-Chief
Investigate
Impeach
Indict
Incarcerate
Trump 2019
80
Might you add two additions to your list of "I"s, Socrates? Incapacitate and Impoverish, re the corrupt and criminal Trump Organization and its ownership family of grifters.
5
@Socrates - Excellent!
4
I find these statements by Luke Coffey incredibly naive and if they are shared with the administration we should be very worried:
"Of course I was disappointed with Helsinki, but I do not just look at how the president handles specific meetings with Putin [...] Instead, I’m most interested in what the actual policies are coming out of the administration.”
Also from the article:
"He cited additional sanctions, weapons sent to Ukraine, increased Pentagon spending meant to counter Russian aggression and opposition to a new Russian pipeline to Europe. All that, he said, 'is proof that this is one of the toughest administrations on Russia since Reagan.'"
Without knowing the Why, the What is largely irrelevant. So he is spending more in Pentagon - does that mean that the money is well spent? Spending money and resources on the wrong things, at the wrong place or at the wrong time is a win for the enemy. The pipeline - are Trump trying to punish Russia or Europe? We certainly know he has actively tried to poke holes into EU's umbrella and his ambassador in Germany has openly stated that he will try to empower the right-wing forces in Europe and Germany in particular.
Being "tough" on someone means you are doing something that actually hurts them or at least limit their movements. An orchestrated play can easily give the impression of "tough".
6
Been following politics since the Kennedy/Nixon debates, and ignoring the fringe elements...
Never has there every been raised questions about the loyalty and patriotism of any modern day president...but then, there has never been any president like Donald Trump.
The breadth and depth of the coverage of this story is a strong indication of a growing demographic of the similarly concerned.
Had always found it curious indeed how Trump was a blustering braggadocio to everybody - save Vladimir Putin.
15
What is most telling about Trump's support for Putin is its constancy.
This is a man who cannot hold on to a position from one tweet to the next, who even wavered in his pursuit for the funding of his signature wall until the likes of Ann Coulter infused him with backbone. And although he claims, with his usual array of superlatives, that "nobody's been tougher on Russia," when you poke at it you find that Congress and his subordinates are the ones who have been tough--and tough despite him.
So what does it tell you when this mercurial little man holds absolutely firm on all things Russia, when he remains resolute in his denial of Moscow's election interference, unfailing in his parroting of Moscow talking points, unflagging in his aid and backing of Moscow goals from the weakening of the western democratic alliance to the strengthening of Russian power in the Middle East, holding as fixed and steady in his support of Putin as the North Star?
10
@Steel Magnolias
What is most telling about Trump's support for Putin is its secrecy.
1
Stunning commentary!
Thank you!
As a number of people are pointing out, the original mistake was by David Cameron in calling for the Brexit referendum in the first place, a gambit he thought would kill Brexit once and for all, but which backfired on him enormously.
When it unexpectedly passed, thanks to Russian help and money, the UK lost all negotiating leverage with the EU, because the outcome of the negotiations was already pre-determined. Government by referendum never works, as it always leaves you with one inflexible outcome, with no room for negotiating or compromise as to its implementation.
And while the parliamentary system has its drawbacks, compared with the US system, at least things get voted on in the open, to the point where, as noted, a back bencher was allowed to present a proposal directly to the floor for a vote.
Here in the US, under GOP rule, the Senate and formerly the House are now giant black holes, where nothing ever gets voted on unless the leader agrees to it.
First we had the Merrick Garland non-vote and now we have the absurd situation where McConnell won't allow a vote on any measure to end the shutdown unless Trump first agrees to sign the bill that is passed, totally abdicating the Senate's role as an independent entity. This is certainly no way to run a government.
7
@John M. Whoops, sorry about that. Not sure how it happened, but obviously this comment was meant to be attached to the NYT article about Brexit and its impact on British government. Oh well, as they say, everything relates to each other in the end.
What's Mitch McConnell's role in these situations? Is he still one of the "shadow presidents"? Can y'all believe Trump's doing this upheaval all on his watch without others in the background?
5
Mitch McConnell is the only person in Congress who can stop Trump dead in his tracks.
All McConnell has to do is allow one 90 minute vote in his Senate to reopen the government and the shutdown would be ended immediately.
Yet McConnell won’t allow a vote because he knows he would have several Republicans up for re-election defect and vote to re-open.
And by refusing to allow his Senators to vote, McConnell protects his GOPer Senators from being forced to go on record as voting AGAINST ending the shutdown.
Ain’t America great? One measly Senator has total control over the entire nation!
Let your Senators vote, Mitch!!
3
Within a few years time most of the major EU countries will not be America's allies due to cultural and social changes happening there. But Russia and America will become buddies because of friendship and trust that are developing between Trump and Putin. This would be the greatest geopolitical change in the 21st century. There are elements in this country and others who do not want to see this happening because of the vested interest. So they are trying their best to scuttle this development through baseless accusations against Trump. Even the special counsel investigation has indirectly become part of this attempt to torpedo friendship developing between Russia and America.
2
I think I could go for McCarthy-style hearings at this point. I want to shake down this administration and everyone associated with the campaign and inauguration, publicly.
I have no more patience for Mueller.
And I want that interpreter before Congress immediately.
4
How is it that his interpreters have not been subpoenaed? he likely destroyed the actual notes.
7
And Donald Trump wonders why there's so much speculation about his relationship with Vladimir Putin, when he goes out of his way to cover-up or chooses not disclose what's being done and said in his official capacity as President of the United States.
He obviously hasn't noticed that as far as Russia is concerned, the Cold War never ended either.
5
Reminder, during the campaign, shifty young Jared Kushner, tried to set up a secret back channel to Russia, INSIDE the Russian embassy no less!
Even the Russians laughed about Jared’s stupidity.
3
Present and past senior members of the Intelligence community have asserted that Trump's actions with regard to Russia are extremely troubling, with some contending that Trump's behavior with Putin poses an imminent threat to the stability of our nation. Apparently McConnell and his GOP cohort think that's absolutely fine, no problem there, nothing to be concerned about. They're waiting for Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez to show up on Capitol Hill wearing pink pumps. THEN they will voice their extreme concern about this outrageous conduct by a first-term Congresswoman.
What will it take for America to wake up to the fact that Trump has set the world ablaze, and is deeply embedded with Russia??
7
add to this list Trump's meeting with the Russians in the Oval Office immediately after he fired Comey. This was the meeting where he reported to the Russians that he got Comey out of the way (because, as he told Lester Holt, Comey would not stop investigating Trump's Russia collusion). And at this meeting Trump disclosed "eyes only" intelligence to Russia.
5
Since the Democrats took control of the House, the media narrative has shifted perceptibly away from questions about Trump's actions to questions about how Trump's actions will (not may) end his presidency.
1
1 The bureaucratic swamp is obviously rife with leakers.
2 Geo politically, the US needs Russian cooperation in dealing with N Korea and China.
To date Trump has been tougher on Russia that Obama ever was; advanced anti tank weapons to Ukraine,tactical short range missiles in the Baltics, stopping Merkel from Germany becoming dependent on Russian energy ,Forcing NATO to increase military spending..to counter Russia.
Trump learned his lesson when talks with Australia and Mexico were leaked in detail.
There have been hundreds of stories speculating on various aspects of Trump wrong doing...no evidence as of yet on any of them.
Trump talked to Russia and hid what he said before he talked to anybody else.
Trump has done nothing but attack NATO. The increased spending started under Obama.
Trump did not stop Merkel from doing a blessed thing.
We haven’t put short-range missiles into the Balkans.
1
Where are the reliable “unnamed sources “ and leaks? Was anything important discussed or was it about family and dinner plans? Trump and Republicans should never have secrets. Only Democrats are trustworthy enough to do the right things.
1
We – via our elected representatives - have stood by and allowed executive power to run amok. Time for a change.
1
I think that Trump owes large amounts of money to various Russian banks and that Putin has told him to do as he is told or all of those loans will be called in immediately...oh, and to forget any notion of a Trump Tower Hotel in Moscow.
It's just that simple---Trump cares more about his reputation and his money than he does about his country. He is trying his best to manage the situation and keep his duplicity secret.
2
I agree. It IS that simple.
There’s probably some salacious kompromat as well but the $$$ is always the driving force for Trump.
1
All those private conversations are just that. They have nothing to do with political. Putin is a multi billionaire with all the power. Trump has only couple of billions with little power and poor relative to Putin. They both have business interests and Putin has political interests as well. Putin asks Trump to do this and he does in exchange for business or money transfer. Putin wants U.S. to get out of NATO. He will do it before end of 2020. Putin and Trump know that Trump has only two more years. When Trump leaves the office, he will be at least few billion dollars richer than before entering the office. He is a master of deal making. His biggest deal is what he made with the American people that makes him very wealthy. He pulled off his biggest con act against Americans. He will go to the bank with a laugh.
Why doesn't this reporting provide details on how Trump's meetings with other adversaries, like China and North Korea, have been memorialized? It would help provide the needed context to understand how extraordinary his interactions with Putin are -- not just in comparison to how past administrations have functioned, but in contrast to his own diplomacy with other adversaries.
3
Is not collaboration with an enemy grounds for impeachment? If not, it should be, even if it requires a constitutional amendment.
4
The circumstantial evidence of Trumps involvement with Russia has been compelling for a long time. How many Trump's appointees conveniently "forgot" to mention their contacts with Russia on their security clearance forms? His behavior in Helsinki was beyond the pale, yet where are our "patriotic republicans"? I have found their continued lack of outrage and oversight suspicious. With the exception of John McCain and Jeff Flake, they have been AWOL. It was posited that the NRA may have channeled funds originating in Russia into campaign contributions. Is that the reason for the deafening silence...culpability? What is most disconcerting is that I find that explanation plausible which means that Russia has won. They have undermined my faith in our government.
543
@CAM
Excellent post. We have lost faith in government as well as the election process.
This sets the stage for someone who says "only I can fix it."
As for the NRA and other GOP-Russian connections, I'm afraid the rot goes deep.
39
They have certainly undermined any lingering faith in the Republicans in government, anyway.
46
@Melinda Mueller do you think Trump has "more flexibility" in dealing with Russia now that the election is over?
2
I vote for open hearings now, and I mean right now. Any congress person/ judge etc... that stands in the way should be suspect. There should be transparency for all with the harshest penalties applied, and I'm talking about traitorous activity. The government is acting like an abused spouse, denying that the other person is actually bad and can be redeemed. This will go down in history as not only the most embarrassing chapter, but that we are actually at war and don't know it yet. There should be extreme sanctions placed on Russia immediately and harsh penalties for social media outlets who let foreign trolls take over to sway opinion. We are in a crisis, and the red alert should be sounded.
763
History rhymes; what rhymes with McCarthy hearings? What you write does.
3
@Missy
Great comment, and yes, we are all abused spouses, with Trump. In other words, enablers. Our elected officials must push back vigorously and relentlessly, as if we have seen our own child abused by a family member.
It’s not funny, it’s not a joke, it’s time for swift serious legal action.
After he’s gone, and punished, all of his appointees must also resign, as they have all tainted the institutions they belong to. Specifically, the beer swilling Supreme Court member with his selective memory.
35
@Missy now that were are "in crisis" we should start building the wall.
2
Meanwhile, in the real world, Trump has increased sanctions, announced our withdrawal from nuclear agreements due to Russian violations, slaughtered hundreds of Russian soldiers in Syria, provided lethal arms to Ukraine and continued to increase oil production and push Europe to rely less on Russian energy. Whatever nefarious things partisan liberals and liberal mouthpieces like the NYT think were said in a few private conversations, they don't seem to have done much good for Putin.
5
Trump's government did all of those things you mentioned, despite of him.
2
@Allen
It has been Congress to do those things or Trump administration, not Trump himself who being under pressure did not protest.
In the real world Trump is pushing for sanctions suspension and Trump personaly is giving away Syria to Russia/Assad.
3
@Allen
Most likely Putin ordered these to happen as a smoke screen. He is not beyond allowing the slaughter of his own people to advance his goals. His plan is working, you believe it.
2
We know what was said: “no one has been tougher on Russia than me!”
Right
9
It would make sense for an ex-kGB agent to bug every hotel room of visiting dignitaries from everywhere in the world who visit Russia. Small investment for potential huge payoff. He probably learned it from us.
5
these meetings seem to me rather weak evidence by themselves of Trump being in Putin's pocket, but even without knowing what was discussed, the way the interactions were handled is proof positive of President Trump's inept handling of the responsibilities of his office. that his behavior is so unusal and secretive is probably more damning than any speculation about the content of these frequent conversations.
4
There is no mystery. On Putin's command Trump bleated, yes sir, yes sir, three bags full sir.
16
I won't get the quotes exactly right, so my apologies up front.
Reporter: "Did you or do you work for the Russians?"
POTUS: "That's the most insulting thing I've ever had said to me."
Reporter: "Mr. President that's the most insulting thing I've ever had to ask! But you brought this on yourself." (my addition)
15
Why they chatted about "golden showers"!
2
Mr. Mueller, that's a lot of smoke. Have you found fire?
4
@J. Colby You can ask any one of the 20 people who have been indicted by Mueller thus far. Unfortunately for the so-called president, we are a nation of laws. The fool never should have run for office. Neither he nor his family will withstand the scrutiny that comes with the job.
5
You mean like all those indictments that continue to rise in number?
4
The fire is sitting in the White House embarrassing our country every second he remains in office. The caring Americans fire department will put the blaze out on November 3, 3020.
2
If you have nothing to hide Mr. President share it. You have already shared your incompetence and bigotry with the world. Why not show us how many puppeteer strings Mr. Putin is manipulating?
18
Treason in broad daylight
28
Where are the members of the Republican Party on this (and most other) issues? Hiding in their hidden-holes, waiting perhaps for the Spring thaw.
14
If he's negotiating in the style he uses with the US Congress, we're in big, big trouble. C'mon, Congress- this isn't some trivial nondisclosure agreement on The Apprentice- this stuff matters. Demand accountability.
28
@Mark Congressional Republicans will never stand up to Trump. They share the same base. They have betrayed their oath to defend the US constitution.
4
And what exactly, precisely is pence's role is all of this?
22
It is a matter of public record that Trump lies to the American public without restraint. Everything he says must be taken in that light, including his discussions with Putin.
30
Perhaps they are discussing future real estate investments (when both are out of office soon). Putin needs invest large sums.
I'm curious. Do we know what was discussed in any one on one conversations/meetings with other world leaders? What about with North Korea? China? I suspect we do but others who are better informed can chime in. I feel that this secretive business is very fishy, but if the donald is consistent with all of his meetings with other world leaders then I suppose we could cut him some slack much as I'd hate to.
1
@zoe - We do, because notes are taken and kept. Trump seized the notes taken by his American translator after his one-on-one with Putin in Helsinki. This may be a violation of the American Records Act, but, hey, Trump breaks the law all the time!
6
I say that those meetings are also suspect. He says one thing then does another. Even meetings that we know about which occur domestically are disasters.
2
@zoe
we only know what trump has told us --1984 style. He has lied about what was discussed with Kim Jong Un. We don't know for sure what was said to Xi of China. What of Netanyahu? Saudi Arabia? No one has seen anything in writing. What are those booklets he signs & holds up? Autograph books? There isn't enough in writing for a presidential library if they allow him to have one. We should hold this man responsible for every lie. What has he promised Putin in those meetings? The nuclear codes each morning?
1
The Trump-Putin meetings cannot be over emphasized. I spent 30 years in the business world (as has Mr. Trump) and took part in countless negotiations both big and small (as has Mr. Trump). The primary purpose of each and every one was clarity of understanding. Any detail that could cause contention was noted. Any “what if” was spotlighted. Every one-on-one meeting was followed by memos to all concerned as a way to be absolutely clear about what was discussed and, most importantly, what was agreed to. Any one-on-one that was kept secret would be suspect. Even considered to be collusion for the purpose of personal gain or to hide something illegal.
19
If the President were advancing the interests of the United States of America and acting in the best interests of the country, he would be mindful to not do ANYTHING that would remotely suggest impropriety. His actions cannot be excused. If his intentions are well intended, he is not competent to hold the office. If not, we are all observing in real time the most blatant disregard for this office and what it stands for in the history of the country.
18
“If any president would have wanted witnesses and protection, it ought to have been Donald Trump,” unless he was actually an agent of our adversaries. This is far from his claim to put “America first.” No one could claim that Trump who undermines NATO, closes the government and has secrets with Putin is working for American interests.
14
What has been obvious from the start is that trump is compromised and working for the Russians, either because he owes money to them or believes in their system and wishes to bring down the government Bannon style. We await Mueller but this is torturing this country and the republicans are now complicit and probably have money in this game too.
12
Besides trump being an anti-American agent of Putin, which seems to be fairly obvious at this point, what about the Federal Records Act and the Presidential Records Act?
Trumps confiscating notes from the interpreters and other instances where he tears up papers are a direct violation of both Federal laws....why are we not hearing more about that?
19
Very sad that senator has the fortitude to call out Trump and begin the process with Congress to rid us of this pox
2
I'm just asking ... what if both parties were hacked by Russia ... and one party (the one Russia was most afraid of) was weaken by the release of unfavorable information ... and the other party is being threatened with the release of equally damaging information ... but all they have to do prevent that is to do a few "small" favors ... like say keep the government shut down as long as they can ... might explain why Mitch won't even allow a vote on it ... just saying ...
3
President Trump has time and time again explained why the USA should have cordial relations with Russia, and any other country. Why is that so difficult for Democrats to accept that? They are deranged, out of control. their logic has no anchor to reality.
1
@Aristotle Gluteus Maximus
Oh, Please!
1
@Aristotle Gluteus Maximus
Not sure how we can have cordial relations with a country who attacked our election, poisons people it doesn’t like, and has now kidnapped and imprisoned an American citizen who attended a wedding in Moscow.
Doubt it, but I might be missing something!
1
@Aristotle Gluteus Maximus Look, I'm for a better relationship with Russia, but the facts still stand and can not and should not be dismissed. They also are separate from Trumps meeting with Putin or his possible collusion with Russia.
Russia interfered with our election and we should be holding them accountable for that, the CIA has found this, the FBI has also found this as well as other governments in the world. So the fact that we have interference and then these closed meetings with Putin makes it worrisome.
1
As much as it is sensationalist, as much as we would prefer not to think about it, and knowing something about how folks like the Soviets operate, I have little doubt that Trump was compromised during his sojourns to the USSR. It doesn't take much, a little goes a long way. It's called "blackmail" and Putin knows how to wield it. This gives Putin a great deal of power and he will use it!
17
@Emanuele Corso
What information did Edward Snowden have on trump to give to Putin? Snowden probably taught Russia how to hack into the databases of the DNC & Clinton. What else has the traitor Snowden given Russia?
2
We know what they talked.
Putin demanded return on his investments and Trump has capitulated.
Trump and GOO are selling America and world to oligarchs for personal gain.
5
By Trump's own account he also met Putin once before he was president.
4
Better relations with Russia is a, good thing. It's a Christian country and NATO has expanded all the way to Baltic States. Clinton would have gone to war with Russia with her aimless bravado. The real enemy of the US is cultural backwardness in Saudi Arabia and with Islam in general with its suppression of women and minority rights.
1
Trump is the President. He should meet regularly with every country that has nuclear capabilities. That’s his job. These people who criticize Trump have Trump Derangement Syndrome.
3
@Jam77t No one is complaining about the meetings. What is in contention is the secrecy of the matters discussed!
4
@Jam77
Oh, Please! trump is a traitor by definition.
3
Well then, sign me up for TDS, because your boy’s a dangerous, greedy fool who’s acting in ways that suggest he just might be a Russian agent.
2
"...Trump has actually been tough on Russia,” Sarah Huckabee Sanders, the White House press secretary, said in a statement."
Yeah, just ask Oleg Deripaska. Steve Mnuchin actually had to explain why Trump thought sanctions on the Russian oligarch should be lifted just as new revelations putting Deripaska deep in the 2016 election meddling are coming to light.
Really tough, Sarah...
17
After this president finally leaves the office and all the damage done by him and his Republican co conspirators is added up, I expect there will be a statue or a building honoring him in Red Square before anyone erects one in the USA.
10
Much ado about nothing. When you have an administration that is rife with leakers and holdovers from the Obama administration, you sometimes need to take measures to stop the leaks. Apparently you folks have a short memory. Do you recall Obama getting caught on an open mike trying to cut a deal with the president of Russia? I guess you don't - different standard, right?
1
Perhaps you are correct.
A preponderance of large amounts of evidence, suggests, not.
1
Recovery will be long
@DEWaldron
Trump followers are grabbing at straws with that "flexibility" comment. Any real negotiations have areas of flexibility built in.
Try widening your view, to the present crisis.
1
If it looks like treason and sounds like treason, it does not deserve the benefit of the doubt but prosecution.
13
1/28/17, Trump’s first phone call in the White House was with Putin. The call lasted an hour. Flynn and others were in the room. There is a photo, but no official transcript of this call—wonder why!
15
Maybe Putin just wants advice on moving his money into real estate when they both leave office in a couple years.
5
I am increasingly anxious for Mueller to report on the Presidents relationship to Putin/Russia. With the current information being reported about the President, traitor and treason and the urgency of resolving these issues are becoming real concerns.
8
Either of two things must be true. Either
Trump is a witting foil of the Russian dictator, or
Trump is suffering from Chamberlain syndrome!
Use your intellect, and choose.
5
Putin is the alpha dog in this match. Trump is the omega dog, still learning from his master.
7
If there is nothing to hide, why hide it?
Trump is compromised and, by the way they're defending him, so is Republican leadership.
Republicans are traitors.
9
Although it wouldn't have any teeth, Congress should pass a recommendation that Trump not be allowed to meet with Putin alone and that members of a yet unspecified committee be briefed on what was conveyed in any future meeting. Until we get the Mueller report, we have no idea what Trump is all about, other than he is an unintelligent, right-wing racist who gets his advice and orders from loony talk show hosts.
15
You have an absolute buffoon in the room with a very clever ex-KGB, who requested no other ears/brains in the room; we know PRECISELY what they talked about. Putin ran mental circles around our President, reassuring him that he’d personally get really great business deals, not to listen to Merkel etc (they’re not strong like him), told him what a great deal maker he is, whatever else he wants to hear but there are a few little things he needs to do to make all this happen involving say Syria and some silly sanctions etc...At the end of the day, Putin’s power is proportional to his country’s economy.
12
Conjecture everywhere. Is that what our news media relies on today? God help us all.
2
@Confused
"If it looks like a duck & quacks like a duck"...It's a DUCK!
@shirls., Indeed. And I have seen lots of ducks in Manhattan. Liberal ducks, that is.
1
Trump needs a meeting with Putin soon...he has to asked him, "what do I do now." Of course Putin's answers, even in the Trump era, won't work in the U.S.---kill a journalists, arrest a CEO, invade a country---but maybe something softer will work--revoke CNN's license, close down Harvard for building violations---
8
@Amanda Jones or shut down the government for a fake crisis. As someone else noted, say something enough times, and it becomes the truth, especially to an ignorant, slavish following.
2
Donald J. Trump is first and foremost Vladimir Putin’s whipping boy who could be summoned by just a glance by this dictator.
Him being the 45th President of the United States is just secondary.
Consider:
• Siding with Putin over 17 US military, intelligence and security agencies
• Advancing Putin’s agenda like weakening alliances and spouting Putin’s propaganda like the Afghanistan invasion
• Being put in his place every time they meet like in Helsinki when Trump addressed Putin as Mr. President to which Putin called him Donald as one would address a minion
Maybe he is right when Trump screams “No collusion! No collusion!” — a slave does not collude with his master. He does his master’s every bidding without complaint.
12
Hey, look, is there anyone who can not understand that the cheap piece of garbage who used to make money defrauding people on condo deals needs advice from someone more competent than him when it comes to conducting subversive activities?
9
Putin owns Trump. Trump needs Putin because Putin can provide the means to finance his perpetual grift of the world. Trump because he is willing to sell out American institutions and democracy for riches is a traitor that should pay a price for his false allegiance to the American people.
13
I predict that eventually Trump, (after squirming and writhing for a few months) will eventually say something like...
" Of course I have close ties with Putin. It makes perfect sense. The world needs strong leaders who work together. Tell me: what is so bad about Russia? America is not so squeaky clean!
Obama and others want to keep Russia at a distance but I have negotiated a new, sensible way forward. The fake CNN and failing NYT force me to keep my discussions secret or else all my good work will be destroyed just as they have tried to undermine two years of amazing achievements.
collaboration is about building stronger relationships.
No collusion"
... and he will be believed.
Like rats (or children) following the pied piper . . .
8
Trump doesn’t need the interpreters. He has the “best brain” and “is smarter than all of them”,
Trump can’t even manage English whereas Putin speaks it, Russian and excellent German(thanks KGB!) Whether or not there was collusion I have no doubt Putin has been running Donny in circles and outwitting him at every turn.
8
Reading articles like this in this newspaper is like going to a revival screening of "Lawrence of Arabia" or Spielberg's "Lincoln" and then for some reason the theater shows a trailer for the next installment of "The Fast and The Furious" or a super hero movie.
Who do the presenters imagine is in the audience?
1
1. The Russians helped Trump win with internet propaganda.
2. Trump’s team met with the Russians for dirt on Hilary.
3. People on Trump's team colluded with the Russians by passing on poll information.
4. Trump continued to work on Russian real estate deal(s?) well into his campaign.
5. Trump wants to reduce Russian sanctions placed there for annexing the Crimea.
6. Trump is pulling troops out of Syria which aids the Russians.
7. Trump disclosed top secret information to Putin in their first post-election meeting.
8. Trump holds secret meetings with Putin and refuses to pass on details to congress and even people in the White House.
What does this all spell? T-R-E-A-S-ON !!!!
16
Every time Trump appears on TV and opens his mouth it's sheer spectacle and nothing more than that. All noise, no substance except that his naked contempt, ignorance, lies, narcissism and greed are on display for all to see, including his implacable base but in their case it's simply looking into a mirror at their own collective rotting selves.
10
Does anyone remember the story from this past summer of how American intelligence sources in the Kremlin suddenly went silent? No? Well, here's the link: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/24/us/politics/cia-russia-midterm-elections.html
It's hard not to wonder if any of our stable genius's conversations with his handler have anything to do with this.
5
The Secretary of State was in the meeting in Hamburg, Germany. What’s so secret about that? The dinner that night included dozens of people. I can’t imagine Mr. Trump and Mr. Putin planning Armageddon during the dessert course with people all around.
The NY Times sees collusion behind every meeting between these two leaders.
1
Kind of. brings back memories of 1962 movie " The Manchurian candidate"
9
It’s beginning to look like Mr. Putin has annexed the White House and installed Mr. Trump as his puppet.
4
Neither Mr Putin nor Mr Trump have a special love for China. 'Nuff said.
We have to factor into this the idea that Trump really does believe that he is the smartest guy. He cannot conceive that he is Putin's useful idiot.
In the immortal paraphrased words of Rummy - "The Donald is the very definition of the unknown known". He has zero intellectual curiosity, therefore cannot conceive those things which are not in his immediate field of vision.
Trump is worse than a Manchurian Candidate - he has no idea that he is being played and is incapable of understanding why and how. Further, he looks at attempts to warn him as personal attacks. This will not end well - for him or for US.
11
Washington Post - March 26, 2012
'In their joint statement to reporters here, President Obama and Russian President Dmitry Medvedev spoke carefully about continuing discussions on the sensitive issues of European missile defense.'
But in an unscripted moment picked up by camera crews, the President Obama was more blunt:
"Let me get reelected first, he said; then I’ll have a better chance of making something happen.On all these issues, but particularly missile defense, this, this can be solved, but it’s important for him to give me space,”
'Obama can be heard telling Medvedev, apparently referring to incoming Russian president — and outgoing prime minister — Vladimir Putin.'
“Yeah, I understand,” Medvedev replies, according to an account relayed by an ABC News producer, who said she viewed a recording of the discussion made by a Russian camera crew. “I understand your message about space. Space for you . . .”
“This is my last election,” Obama interjects. “After my election, I have more flexibility.”
“I understand,” he told the U.S. president. “I will transmit this information to Vladimir.”
Obama was widely criticized for the remark, as he signaled that he was going to capitulate to Russia on missile defense, but didn't want to disclose his plans to the American people until he was re-elected.
President Obama was misleading the American people.
Trump's not the first President to be subversive for political purposes, and won't be the last.
False equivalency.
3
@JMS
Take a break from Obama and look at what's happening to the country.
1
Why on Earth does this story repeatedly state that Trump met with Putin five times?
In order to fully understand Trump’s extended relationship with Putin that stretches back for many years every American citizen should read “Everything We Know About Russia and President Trump” https://www.newsandguts.com/trump-russia/?fbclid=IwAR2pfzsvYzm6lskTXLmpf-DzkwjYZyoOQxLYP4P1AA7ai3HEhVemrowTrho,
I don’t recall you reporting on every meeting that Obama had with world leaders that wasn’t made public. I’m sure I must have just missed that......
2
Obama didn’t use a foreign government to manipulate an election. He didn’t then meet in secret with the leader of that government as the US’s official representative thanks to election he stole. So yeah there was no real need to report on it or be as concerned about it as you should be about Trump using his position to sell out the US to Russia for his own financial gain. Because that is absolutely what is happening.
6
@DanielMarcMD
The problem is not the meeting, its the lack of any records. This and the context of Trump alone in a room with Putin.
1
I love the conspiracy theories that are being thrown around. “The interpreters were ordered not to disclose the conversion”. Of course they were! They aren’t supposed to disclose anything said in private by the president, Putin or no Putin. This is an example of how to propagate conspiracy when one doesn’t exist.
I truly believe the media is smart enough to understand this but purposely publish misleading articles like this because the Trump haters will eat it up for breakfast and fuel their hatred for another week. #resist
1
@Kev
Take your blinders off! djt confiscated all the notes & written records of all their meetings. What part of that didn't you comprehend?!
2
@Kev--Now bend over backward and explain why Trump took all of the notes from the translator.
2
Obviously, they're lovers. Come on, it's obvious, secret meetings, taking the notes from the interpreter. Next up, they'll take Guadalajara, and move on the cartels, cant let those gangs make all that money by themselves.
2
Why don't people in his administration say, "This must stop."
6
If it had been one or two meetings then I would say that perhaps Trump is a witless fool pandering to an adversary that Trump may believe he can negotiate with.
No, Putin is a dangerous person and a person much more intelligent than Trump, and Putin will in time educate Trump.
However, the time has passed for Trump to be forthcoming and tell the public what what discussed as there are few, if any witness, to corroborate what Trump would tell us given the propensity of Trump to lie.
But, many will believe that Trump is working in the best interests of the country in having secret discussions with Putin. Or, he is getting his performance appraisal.
4
I just put up my '19 Putin calendar. I really like the pic of Putin associated with this story; I hope it is used in next years edition of Putin calendars.
Trump not releasing his tax returns should have been the disqualifier but unfortunately many people voted with their gut instead of their head. Or to put it another way, they were played.
10
@ted, the people who voted for Trump thought he was a self made man. Someone ought to tell them that his papa diverted mummy to Trump when he was a baby just so papa could evade taxes, and made Donald filthy rich by the time he was 3 years old. Each time Donald failed in business which he seems to have a habit of, his father bailed him out. Donald Trump is a spoilt child, his parents are epic failures when it comes to parenting. And his older sister becoming a federal judge is the biggest shameful thing because she too participated in tax evasion schemes with her family.
Someone ought to tell Trump's followers the truth, he is not what they think he tells he is, not a self made man, nor a shrewd businessman (he is a business failure) nor a man of morality (having affairs while his 3rd wife has a new baby)...the list is long. He is neither a patriot not an "American" in essence. Opposite.
3
'What's disconcerting is the desire to hide information from your own team...'
...or maybe... this just clarifies which team he's on.
10
This is getting absolutely ridiculous. Preposterous, farcical and downright - how should I put it nicely - childish.
Why is Russia an adversary? I could understand the Cold War mentality, but that ended in 1991. Today we're in 2019 and this nasty business is still going on. As if the American psyche was in constant need of a 'devil' image on which all ills can be blamed (remember Dubya's 'axis of evil' speech?). Is this maybe a reflection of a deep-seated sense of insecurity and self doubt? Is that it? A lack of self confidence?
3
@waldo--No, it is Putin's words and actions. Like invading Crimea with soldiers whose uniforms were stripped of all identification. It is about shooting down commercial jet liners and actively undermining the elections in Ukraine....and on and on.
Do some research and then you won't look---putting it nicely--childish.
3
Trump was probably just telling Putin he'd have more flexibility after the 2020 election. That's what Obama did too.
For all we know Trump and Putin are working on a major new security deal that will assure a good working relationship with Russia and assure security for Europe and out Mid East allies mostly Israel, by neutralizing Iran. Trump may be a major pain in the neck but he’s not stupid.
@Bruce Egert, really? that foreign policy and geo-political genius, Trump, is working on a game changing strategy for neutralizing Iran, but we don't want any of our security or military professionals involved in the conversation? This is a person who is on record as not having basic facts right on geo-political issues and military matters, but should be trusted to negotiate with a self-serving former KGB agent? You're either as witless as Trump, or I'm guessing you and other online supporters have some deal for free trips to the buffets in Trump's casinos...the ones that aren't bankrupt.
6
Perhaps, when a U.S. president holds talks with the leader of a foreign nation, we should have Fox News moderate and televise the event?
Only a politically motivated person would criticize any President - even the very worst one - for wanting to hold a private conversation with a foreign leader.
There is no difference between the "Trump is a puppet of Putin" story and the "Obama was born in Indonesia" story. They are both garbage invented for political purposes.
The irony of this situation, is that the media spends far more time on this nonsense, that on carefully informing the public about the authentic bad deeds of Trump, which are numerous, flagrant, and damaging to our nation in the extreme.
The liberal press needs to stop making excuses for Hillary Clinton's defeat - which is all the "Russia" story really is - and get on with reporting the news.
3
I feel like I am in some alternate universe spectating this nonsense. Is this news? Where was the ire at each inappropriate meeting during this maelstrom of a presidency? Republicans, where is that hawkish nationalism now? Et tu, Brute?! Et tu, Brute.
5
While we don't know what orders Putin issued but we can sure see the ones already carried out.
4
Remember when it was referred to as the USSR - the Union of
Soviet Socialist Republics. Will USSR soon become the United States Subsidiary of Russia?
1
I won't be at all surprised if Putin lets it be known -- perhaps via Wikileaks or a media leak to the NYT or Washington Post -- what went on in those meeting with Trump once he sees that Trump's usefulness to him is at an end. Trump is doing Putin's bidding -- undermining American power and influence in the world, while giving Putin room to do whatever dirty work suits him. What does Putin have on Trump? Follow the money. Always follow the money where Trump is concerned, and the truth will come out.
6
be interesting to know if he calls him during executive time as well.... burner phones?
1
Trump is Putin's boy. Putin has never had such a good asset! The audio/video/financial materials that Putin holds, must be amazing.
4
Lest we forget, Putin's background and training is with the KGB. He is a master at deception, ruthless blackmail, etc. He is playing Mr. Trump like a violin.
5
This is Trump and the republics (sic) merely making money with the oligarchs. More for them, less for everyone else. Only 2020 can save the US, if Democrats vote and are not thwarted.
4
More hysteria ginned up by the deranged Democrats. Unfortunately for them the president is authorized by the constitution to have private discussions with foreign heads of state. Why are the Democrats trying to expose to the general public, and the world, what would ordinarily be classified discussions between national leaders? It's obvious they expect to make any information they learn public to make hay for their opposition agenda. Their hostility is obvious just from their public comments. If Trump really expected secrecy and was conspiring to damage the USA he would have killed the interpreters to eliminate any witnesses, and anyone near them at the table when they talked.
Every day the liberals exhibit how unhinged they have become, casting aside any connection to logic or common sense.
1
@Aristotle Gluteus Maximus
Sad. So sad.
2
Sorry, but that is not the way this works, but I guess in Russia, you guys are used to not knowing what your leader says, not so here. @Aristotle Gluteus Maximus
8
@Aristotle Gluteus Maximus
So, that's the innocence logic, Trump hasn't had anyone killed?
7
Times needs to investigate Mitch. This is bigger than Trump. Connect the dots on Russia support and you will find the GOP has a network of Russian assets.
9
Sound like the two might be having an affair.
2
Everything Trump says and does publicly and in hiding with his buddy Putin reeks of treason. This goes above and beyond obstruction of justice. Why should someone with so much power get away with it when his every action is destroying the freedom that we have living in the US. The GOP won't stand up and override his decision to open up the government and they probably won't do anything if Mueller proves Trump obstructed justice. It's time for the FBI and CIA to physically remove him from office and lead him directly to jail.
9
The facts will show that Trump is a Russian agent. There is no other explanation.
8
It is time for him to go.
5
Can you imagine if Obama or HRC had even ONE of these meetings? We’d be in the thick of 5 different congressional investigations....
13
@Baba---When the Russian leader asked for a state meeting during the American election, and President Obama told him to wait until after the election season where he would have more time, the Republicans became wholly unhinged, making up all sorts of conspiracy theories about "Obama's plotting to sell out to the Russians" and various calamities. Even to this day, they somehow claim treason for those remarks!
1
The liberties of a people never were, nor ever will be, secure, when the transactions of their rulers may be concealed from them.
Patrick Henry
We will bury you from within without firing a shot.” Niketa Khrushef (at UN)
Two quotes it is good to remember in relation to Trump/Putin.
5
When President Trump talks about his discussions with foreign leaders, liberals call him a security risk. When he doesn't, they screech that the Deep State's Mueller is coming after him. Whatever Trump does, it is always wrong to the NY Times.
1
Uh...actually, what we’re concerned about is that your guy seems to be awfully interested in making sure nobody knows what got said, now or ever. Well, that and the iffy business deals, loans, and collusions.
1
If we look deeper, I think we can figure out the gist of the “Putin & His Puppet” meetings. All we have to do is ask ourselves WWPW? (What Would Putin Want?)
First and foremost, Putin would want a United States President under his control. He picked his man and attacked our election to get him in power.
Putin would want the Western alliance in chaos and broken up. It’s already in chaos and turmoil. Could it get any better than the USA pulling out of NATO?
Putin would also want, in general, a weakened USA, and how much weaker can you get with the government shut down? It is not a far fetched idea that Putin ordered Trump to shutdown the government.
I think the border wall is just an excuse to “explain” the shutdown to the country. I don’t think Trump cares one whit about an ineffective border wall, but he DOES care about pleasing Putin, and the wall gives him cover to do just that.
Putin would undoubtedly want the Deripaska sanctions lifted—surprise, surprise! That’s underway!
What else does Putin want? Dang! I wish we had those notes that Trump destroyed!
5
I know you don't think Trump have to tell you everything he said cause if you think he do you need to stop thinking like a child, cause know have never told everyone things that they said before some of you are thinking of the smallest thing to say something about Trump now I'm not a big Trump fan but right is right and wrong is wrong and you all are wrong as it comes.
1
@Marvel That is not how this works. There should be at least a record of what was said, not normal. Maybe in Russia, but not here.
5
Uh, actually we just kinda figure somebody oughta know what the President of the United States of America said to the KGB colonel currently running the country that messed around with our elections.
2
It reminds me of the behavior of unfaithful spouses who feign indifference to their lover but manage to get in a few private minutes at social engagements. Like the State Department, the faithful spouse senses what is going on but when confronting the unfaithful partner meets a wall of denial, defensiveness, and anger at being "falsely accused". As Groucho said, "Who are you going to believe, me or your lying eyes?"
If Trump cannot be trusted to tell the truth in small things, who would be gullible enough to believe he can be trusted about his relationship with Putin?
Trump is a serial adulterer; this time we are the "wife".
6
Trump wants to help Russian oligarch Deripaska because he is afraid of hurting the world supply of aluminum. Meanwhile, he has put tariffs on Canadian aluminum. I don't get it. Do you?
5
Individual One: what's next, Boss ???
Individual Two: Later. Gold or offshore accounts ???
Seriously.
1
The new Trump demand, that sanctions be lifted against one of the Russian oligarchs, has blown his cover forever. Not even the Trump Senate swallows it. We will find out what Trump owes Russia in dirty financing... and much more.
But I do love that Trump Talking Point: "Russians are so good at hacking that anyone caught hacking can't possibly be Russian, so no no, No Collusion."
10
Whatever the content of Trump's confidential conversations with Putin, by avoiding any record on his side (but not Putin's), Trump has created an untenable situation. Putin now has the power to destroy Trump's presidency whenever he wants by saying that Trump tried to collude in those meetings. And he can use that threat to make sure Trump doesn't actually take any actions that might harm Russia or Putin--and force him to advance those interests whenever he can. That power is enhanced by the fact that no one is likely to believe Trump's denials because he is a proven liar and because he has taken pains to make sure no one (other than Putin) has any record of their conversations.
6
Perhaps Trump was "advised" by Putin to pull out of Syria? (or else...?) Stranger things have happened...actually, maybe not! His private communications are as suspects as it gets.
2
Somehow the “but her emails” crowd is completely unbothered by this. It’s like half the country has been hypnotized.
13
No mystery, no secrets. They talked about Stormy Daniels and Playboy models. Over tea Trump tried to change the conversation to Russian spies and poison. Putin warned Trump not to drink the tea. That's a clear sign of collaboration.
2
@farleysmoot Nah, but doing exactly what Putin would want is collusion.
What happens when Trump is impeached for treason and refuses to step aside?
There are a whole lot of people in this country, overwhelming on one side of the aisle, who has literally been preparing for this kind of event for a long time.
I shudder to think what will happen if we go down this dangerous path.
All the while Putin continue to reap his rewards. Shameful and terrifying in the upmost.
4
This is a thorough analysis of Trump's involvement with Putin. Trump may take action against some Russian actions but he is careful to pander to Putin himself as he knows where his bread is buttered.
This article also makes clear why the Mueller investigation is taking so long. There is so much evidence that pinning down Trump on any issue or infraction is like trying to capture an oiled pig.
Ultimately, Trump does not care about appearances or that he may be a traitor. After all he believes that his mind dead base will protect him from murdering someone on 5th Avenue so why should treason be any different.
8
What are the odds Robert Mueller has interviewed the translators?
Perhaps that’s why Trump refuses to sit for an interview with Mueller.
Whether he lies or speaks truth, either way, his goose is cooked.
I believe the oven timer is about to go ‘ding’
3
When there is a real story here, let us know. Untill then, fanning hysteria among the anti-Trump state is counterproductive.
3
This is a representative democracy. The president is elected and gets to use his best judgement (within the confines of the constitution) to effect the policies and administration to serve the American people. The American people don't get to tell him how. The American people tell him why.
What FDR didn't lean over and whisper things to Churchill or Stalin? Where they required to be recorded, where they subject to congressional investigations?
The president has the right to do his job within a wide latitude of behaviour/actions. If the president feels a one on one conversation is more expeditious to American interests, then so be it. The executive branch is a coequal branch of government, and as such exposing the content of confidential conversations would also imply that backroom deliberations of congress and judicial deliberations should be "opened up" too.
You have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the President went in with the intent to betray his country before Mueller can even approach for information as to what was said to Putin. And if Mueller had proof to such, wouldn't he already have all he needs to recommend impeachment?
7
@Al Morgan
your attempt to apologize for Trumps criminal actions are just pathetic.
The Federal Records Act and the Presidential Records Act both outlaw destroying notes and records of such conversations.
if you support trump you are Anti-American like he is.
6
If you still have a reasonable doubt that Trump is taking his cues from Putin, you are either not paying attention or you are being willfully blind.
6
@Al Morgan
These are entire meetings. Not talking points about open microphones. And no one is suggesting to open the conversations to the American public. Did you read the article?
“What’s disconcerting is the desire to hide information from your own team,” said Andrew S. Weiss, who was a Russia adviser to President Bill Clinton. “The fact that Trump didn’t want the State Department or members of the White House team to know what he was talking with Putin about suggests it was not about advancing our country’s national interest but something more problematic.”
6
I would have thought keeping detailed minutes of meetings between senior officials, including presidents would be legally required. Also, despite what is said publicly I cannot imagine the CIA and FSB, for the Russians, did not secretly record those meetings. In a sense, isn't that part of what they exist for? CIA loyalty should be to the nation, not the person of the President.
13
Why are people just getting really exercised about this now? These meetings were well reported on at the times they occurred. Is it just because the Democrats have some leverage now and the republicans were afraid of criticizing trump? Many of us were appalled at the time, but coverage just faded away. Hope the Mueller investigations give us some answers about why these private conversations were allowed.
9
In view of past interactions between U.S. Presidents and Russian/Soviet leaders, and given that the article mentions that transparency in notetaking was conducted to avoid possible future blackmail by Russia/Soviet leaders, just unbelievable that Trump can get away (maybe until the Mueller report is finally) with this type of secretive behavior. Just so obvious he has something to hide or that in his dealings with Putin, does not want the US electorate to hear him praising and admiring Putin.
7
It's not a mystery, we know what Putin wants. Support for annexation of Crimea. Troop withdraw from Syria. NATO withdraw. And to back out of climate accords to increase warming trends so Motehr Russia can tap into agricultur and be self sustainable. As well as, insight to US military strategy. Which Trump clearly has executed his oath to Russia and not America.
11
It is ok that I don't know every word said in these meetings. It is NOT ok that his senior foreign policy, intelligence and military leaders do not know.
24
How to understand the earlier lack of interest in these secretive meetings? I recall the outrage and incredulity I felt at the time of the Helsinki meeting, and the further outrage and incredulity I felt when Congress and cabinet members did nothing about it. (An almost daily feeling during the Trump administration.)
Certainly the interpreters of Trump's side of his conversations with Putin, and the interpreter's notes should be subpoenaed. And their bank accounts should be checked for possible hush money payments.
And, though the horse has left the barn in this case, Congress should get busy creating laws that prevent an American president from meeting alone with his Russian counterpart (with only interpreters). If we don't use Trump's outrageous behavior as a guide to plugging the leaks in our Democracy, his presidency will have been even more dismaying.
6
I've thought Trump's intimate meetings with Putin were highly suspect from the start and did not understand the lack of vociferous objections. My first question was why does Trump want to meet with Putin all alone, and my second question was why would any president -- Trump or otherwise -- be permitted to meet with a foreign leader alone. Presidents work for the U.S. citizens, ostensibly. They are not free agents. They should never be allowed a one-on-one meeting with a foreign leader with no witnesses or transcripts. Presidents up until now understood this. The fact that this one does not means there oughta be a law.
16
I guess if your son-in-law is too inept to set up a back channel without getting found out, you just meet face to face.
Why did it take 5 meetings like this before it warranted an article? I mean, these meetings should have produced extra scrutiny while Trump kept up the "No collusion" story (you know, the story before "Collusion is not a crime").
Speaking of stories, why do reporters follow publicly changed stories without the subheading reflecting that the person or group is lying? From "No contact with Russia.", to today's number of convictions and indictments is beyond remarkable.
It is just like the Khashoggi murder and Saudi Arabia. The first time the story changes, the liar's continually changing story is covered, without enough focus on the fact that only guilty parties need to do that...to deal with what investigators (often from this paper) have discovered that shows the previous story is a lie, that is.
It would be refreshing to take a look at the original "no contacts with Russia" lie in the context of what we know today, and wonder what would happen if the slippery slope lie wasn't there to dull the outrage.
The only thing these secret meetings show me is that either they failed to set up a back channel, or Trump realizes with technology today he can never be sure that he won't be overheard. He uses a much more "need to know" protocol for his own Russian secrets than for US classified material.
4
people in such positions are quickly granted "damage control" favors to ease out scandals for the "sake of the country's stability". you know, to avoid an unpleasant precedent like section 4, impeachment, or similar "national crises". and so a trickle is all we get
We must begin thinking what the role of the executive is in our system after this farce is over, whether by impeachment, electoral loss, or end of term, the means by which any person in office can break so many democratic norms will still exist. We must conclude as a nation that the executive branch has become too strong and that powers must be stripped from it to insure democracy. Congress is in Article 1 for a reason, it must assert it's leadership.
5
What was said in those meetings is hardly a mystery. Putin gave the orders and Trump said "Yes Master." He then went on to carry out those orders by seeking to leave NATO, denigrating the European Union, excusing Russia's invasion of Ukraine and seizure of Crimea, promoting Putin's revisionist history of the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan, accepting Putin's denial of Russian interference in our presidential election, dragging his heels on implementing Congressional sanctions on Putin's cronies and now lifting those sanctions on Oleg Deripaska. Need I go on?
8
"Avoiding even the appearance of impropriety" is the course this president should have followed and remains the standard to which he should be held.
6
I wonder if the Chinese or some other country or people have listened in on Trump’s calls with Putin. Wittingly or not Trump seems to prefer Putin and Russia over the Constitution and the US people. I think country is in great peril and we desperately need Trump and his “team” out of our government ASAP.
7
Russia is smarting from being insulted by the west for being too aggressive in the region. So Russia schemed to bring these western nations down by undermining the very foundation they rest on — democracy. So they started to target those very forces that make up our democracies: plurality, free thought, freedom of press, unity in diversity...and started to meddle in divisive ways. Knowing fully well that human beings are pliable manipulative creatures, especially so in present day social media culture. Trump being manipulated by Russia (business first then politics) did not happen overnight. For years now, while Russia was being insulted punished with sanctions the Trump Family and businesses wooed Russia which in turn did everything they could to create an illusion that Americans are very divided. Through whatever means they helped Democrats focus on “identity issues”, they helped republicans become more “nationalist and white supremacists”, all happening under the skin in ways that gullible facebook and twitter and Instagram users did not even realize what was hitting them.
If we don’t wake up on 2019, we can almost assume that even our Supreme Court justices are not immune to Russia like divisive forces, nor are our lawmakers. So we are essentially orphans, left to defend our own selves, rely on our own selves.
4
McCarthyism. For those too young to remember, look it up.
5
To me, the critical fact is that Trump keeps taking the word of a hostile intelligence agency over our own intelligence services.
All of our intelligence agencies agree that the Russian intelligence agency, headed by Putin, hacked into state Attorney General's offices, election system hardware and software vendors, and state voter rolls, plus used our social media companies to spread lies.
It is not the job of president to have secret meetings with the head off a hostile intelligence agency, then publicly declare, with no evidence or explanation, other than Putin said so, that his intelligence agencies are wrong, and he believes Putin.
The job of the president, who works for We the People, is to take seriously the evidence of intelligence agencies created by Congress to protect us from foreign interference.
If the President had a real reason to believe Putin and doubt our own national security community, he should have made a prime time address explaining to We the People exactly why he thinks U.S. intelligence is lying to him, and why he thinks Putin is telling the truth. Even if you give Trump the full benefit of the doubt that he has good reasons for taking the side of Putin on foreign soil, the way he has handled it is, at best, dereliction of duty.
Taken one at a time each transgression could be explained away. However, the sum total of all of the public evidence of Trump's own words and actions SCREAM that Trump is a traitor. If it is a hoax, it is Trump's hoax.
6
That he's an "unorthodox Presidents" seems to his defenders' rationale for every shady thing he does. But "unorthodox" is simply a descriptor. He does't provide a justification for anything. Nixon was "unorthodox" with Watergate. Reagan was "unorthodox" with Iran Contra. Clinton was "unorthodox" with Monica Lewinsky. Do we simply overlook their actions because they were "unorthodox?" Of course, not. This talking point is meaningless and has gotten very tiresome.
4
The more I hear about Mr. Trump the more he reminds me of a child who doesn't even begin to have the ability to carry out the responsibilities of the office.
6
Seriously? The press should be privy to the meetings of heads of state and government officials at every level?
I missed the exposure of Barack Obama's/Hillary Clinton's meetings when they hatched their plans to do the deeds.
3
Hello! His own people don’t know!
7
@Dr. Mysterious, are you kidding? All the republicans did the entire 8 years while Obama was in power, was make noise obstruct and undo everything that was being done to restore a country in recession and self inflicted suffering from two unfounded and unfunded wars started by previous administration. You probably have amnesia...
8
Seriously? You are comparing a cranberry to a watermelon.
4
May I remind all that trump* does not even read...never mind write. He has almost no historical, international, economic knowledge, and has pointedly refused to learn, in favor of relying on his ample gut. All he knows is himself, his self-enrichment and his self-aggrandizement. So what on earth could he be talking to Putin about? Either it had to do with himself/his family and his relationship with Putin et al, or, world affairs *as defined and phrased by Putin*. Who on earth would take comfort in this? Mitch McConnell?
8
The question isn't "Is Trump a Russian asset?"
That was answered years ago. Putin's primary goal is to weaken NATO. His world view is that power is a zero-sum game and thus that anything that weakens the US strengthens him. In that context Trump is by far Russia's single most valuable asset.
All that remains to be answered is, "Is Trump a willing asset, or an unwitting one?"
The rest of the evidence suggests witless.
7
Trump deserves the benefit of the doubt - the doubt that he is a loyal American.
We doubt that he is loyal to America. That doubt is deserved.
But just as deserved it the doubt that Mitch McConnell is a loyal American. McConnell has earned that doubt by turning the Republicans in the Senate into comrades of Trump.
What is truly absurd is how America has put up with Trump and his Russian Republican minions for so long. The behavior of these American pretenders would not be countenanced in the military where patriotism would single them out as traitors.
Whether Mr. Mueller finds hard evidence of Trump's allegiance to Russia is unknown, but what is not questionable is that Trump serves the interests of Russia while damaging the interests of the United States of America.
We need another Special Counsel investigation of the Republican Party. They have flaunted their oaths of office, undermined the Constitution and bolstered the tyranny of Trump.
9
I can think of, giving the President the benefit of the doubt, only two rationales. First, he doesn't want leaks similar to those he experienced on calls to two foreign leaders early in his tenure. Second, is that his tendency to be a contrarian is at play. He knows that being friendly with Putin drives many crazy. So he says "It would be good to have a positive relationship with Russia." People question him meeting Putin with only translators present. So he does it.
What I don't understand completely is why no read-outs to his senior leadership? Although, I believe Pompeo, Mattis and Kelly (at the time) seemed to know what was said? Finally, you need someone who can refute any "distortions" from either Putin or the Kremlin. This has no rationale, and puts the whole onus on Trump to clarify any distortions.
For those who say actions speak louder than words, Trump has supplied the Ukraine with lethal weapons. Something they asked Obama over his second term. Trump also told the EU "not to" support the Russian proposed energy pipeline across Europe.
Finally, the U.S. becoming a net energy exporter, for the first time in history, is "detrimental" to Russia.
18
@Frank Leibold. If he “told” us what they said, could you believe him? From your comment, I think you might be able to do that, but he lies with such frequency and facility that like the boy who cried wolf, few of us could believe him.
31
@Frank Leibold A president should not be contrary; it's too dangerous. He should also not delight in making people 'crazy'. You are describing schoolyard behaviour. Perhaps you are too close to what's going on but to those of us in the rest of the world Trump's dealings with Putin look very suspicious.
29
@Frank Leibold why have all the classified information leaks stopped now that the top layer of FBI management has been cleaned out.
3
It’s completely his style to discuss things one-on-one and privately. That’s how he conducts business. We keep trying to squeeze this square peg into a round hole. Ain’t going to happen. Btw, and this will drive a lot of people crazy, there is every possibility that he is acting in what he thinks is our countries best interest.
17
Because he is incapable of separating what he believes to be his own self interest from that of the nation's, your thesis is fatally flawed.
118
There is also every possibility that he was acting in his own personal interest. Had he been acting in the country’s interest, you would think he would have wanted it publicized widely, as he craves public adulation. The fact that he went to great lengths to keep it secret suggests otherwise. H
128
@Born In The Bronx
Just because he is delusional...does not make something true!
50
Trump is a paid official and should not be having more than very limited unchaperoned contact with foreign leaders. Trump may be able to set the tone of relations with another country but he does not decide it in isolation which therefore requires that he work with advisors and have them in attendance at any discussion.
It has become apparent that executive powers, heretofore untested, are much greater than previously assumed and must be reassessed going forward.
200
@Renee Hoewing
Look Putin has been much longer in politics than Trump. Putin knows how to read politicians, how to take advantage of them and how to play the political game. Do not forget he was in the KBG in Russia. There is NO way Trump can fool Putin. Trump would love to be like Putin and I would not be one bit surprised if Trump asked Putin for advise on how to run this country during these meetings in order to make the the US in Russia's image. Trump acts like a dictator just like the man he admires so very much.
13
@Renee Hoewing..trump has no advisors.I believes his gut.The truth here is that trump and his horrid family have been bailed out repeatedly but Russia and Saudi Arabia.He is an asset to both ergo he is compromised and a traitor.
10
@Bar tennant
He says. But he takes big chunks.
the key question that should be asked of trump about Russia, is who's side are you on? he sided with Putin in Helsinki, has had several one on one meetings with the leader of Russia but won't tell anyone not even his close advisors what was discussed., who have the proper security clearance. took the interpreters notes and instructed them not to discuss what was said in the one on one meetings. again trump what are you keeping from the country you took an oath to protect? trump talks about pulling the USA out of NATO. trump has called for our troops to leave Syria. both of which play into the hands of Putin. Americans should be asking trump, whose side are you on.
24
Thank you Peter for a stimulating article, in USA and here in UK of course innocence is assumed unless proven otherwise. To this end my initial markers would be (1) What has been the accepted norm for other High Level meetings. (2) What is the situation with Mr Trump and meetings with other Leaders... are there standard Minutes/Reports available (3) Are there extenuating individual circumstances relating to meetings with Mr Putin, eg power cuts, translators suddenly expiring through the meetings. (4) What was the situation wrt Mr Trumps advisers after first meeting with no notes, if National Security had queried his actions, then ignorance is no excuse.
8
When Trump, who takes every opportunity to brag about his achievements, meets with the Russian President privately and never mentions any deals struck, one has to be pretty dense to not suspect ulterior motives. Republicans have been in a state of denial since 2016.
47
Past presidents have always had advisers and interpreters with them in meetings with Soviet/Russian heads of state as well as with other heads of state. There has usually been an official note taker in addition to the interpreter. Often, the note taker is a language proficient Foreign Service officer serving in the country of the other leader. Notes and interpreter's notes are official records and are used as a guarantee of the substance of any exchange between our president and other heads of state. This is important for follow-on meetings and bilateral negotiations based upon what the principals said. Not all of this is released to the public; however, eventually records of such meetings are reviewed and released to the National Archives.
President Trump's behavior is unprecedented and leads one to the conclusion that he is hiding something. It could be that he and Putin have discussed third countries and other subjects. The fact that the Russian government has issued statements about the substance of talks gives the Kremlin the lead in shaping the meaning of any exchange between Putin and Trump. This is, again, unprecedented in our presidential history. So, one has to conclude that our president is hiding something that involves his personal business dealings and financial obligations. His silence cripples the effectiveness of U.S. foreign policy and of the Secretary of State in his meetings with other heads of state and foreign ministers.
31
Why am I not surprised that Trump took the actions he did. He knows that if the press had any inkling of what he said they would use it against him. We know clearly of previous presidents who have spoken frankly and in confidence with Russia/Soviets about sensitive matters. Trump is no different. Obama ostracized Putin and where did that get us? At least Trump is keeping lines of communications open and thankfully without press involvement. So now the press attacks him because they were not called in to the discussions? Please!
2
Answer to "Confused": Where did Obama's actions lead? They lead to Americans being safe and respected worldwide, sadly not the case now.
5
So then what were these meetings about? When you throw your lot in with a Russian dictator that’s a good thing? My take is that Putin has something on Trump and he’s using some form of blackmail on him. What a mess we’re in!
5
The press is not an adversary. Their role is to provide open information to the public. Only a Trump cultist would characterize a free press as the opponent.
7
Trump’s “tough” policies on Russia are minor compared to Putin’s main goal, which is to damage NATO and the Western alliance. On this, Trump has delivered amply. A few minor sanctions, likely to be temporary, and some weapons to Ukraine, nowhere near enough to discourage continued Russian bullying, provide cover for Trump and his apologists while America’s strategic position continues to be undermined.
14
Until we have some evidence of what was discussed, I have to assume that they talked about subjects, decisions, and policies that they don't want those in his administration or the American people to know about. That casts a pall of secrecy and deception over their relationship and what it means for America. It also allows me to think and fear the worst--that Trump is indeed being manipulated and used by Putin. The state of our country two years into this administration is obvious and worrisome. Not knowing what Trump's relationship with Russia is allows for a great deal of speculation--none of it positive.
28
Of course I think there's a lot of smoke here, caused by fire, no doubt, and I understand Trump's relationship to Russia makes everyone skeptical of these meetings...but has the public ever known what was said in these meetings in the past? Just curious
1
@Rob S Forget the public. Why shouldn't even HIS advisers and national security team know? What is he hiding from the people who should be advising him on the nation's most sensitive issues?
7
One word...yes!
1
It’s not the public that needs to know, it’s our government and his cabinet. There are no notes for our government to memorialize the items : things discussed and decided upon, and so we don’t know what Trump has secretly obligated all of our government to do.
4
If President Trump has nothing to hide, then the transcripts or Interpreter notes should be freely open for our national security apparatus to see.
But of course, when has Trump been completely honest or forthcoming about anything? Two years into his Presidency and how many falsehoods? Hundreds? Thousands?
17
I put this information together with Trump’s unrelenting attacks on the DOJ, the Mueller investigation, and FBI and have to ask: if he has nothing to hide, why attack those looking into his conduct? Why wouldn’t a public official want corroboration of meetings at the highest levels of government, especially between two adversaries?
The only conclusion I can reach is that Trump has things, likely many things, he is covering up.
18
"But he said Mr. Putin also told him that “if we did, we wouldn’t have gotten caught because we’re professionals.” Mr. Trump said: “I thought that was a good point because they are some of the best in the world” at hacking."
That really sums it up. This is another variation of "good people on both sides" kind of rationalization that Donald loves. Putin was practicing this art of "whataboutism" long before it became a standard tactic of right-wing media in the US, and he knows Donald finds it attractive because he uses it too. Putin knows he's struck gold every time Donald makes a remark like that quoted above. No other President he's dealt with fell for it, but Trump swallows it hook, line and sinker. Putin may be a polished actor on the world stage, but it's no wonder he couldn't hide his smirk as Trump Donald danced on his strings in Helsinki.
17
Imagine the GOP fury in Washington if President Obama had multiple secret conversations with Putin and then openly contemplated leaving NATO. What would have been the GOP reaction if President Obama had considered taking disaster relief funding from southern states to provide greater funding for Obamacare?
Take this a step further. Just as Trump has refused to disclose the content of his conversations with Putin, suppose that a President Hillary Clinton had 33,000 e-mails but refused to make them public. Likely she would have been impeached by now and awaiting trial in the Senate.
Who knew, that in just two years of the Trump presidency, what would be a crime if committed by a Democrat would only be considered "different" if committed by a Republican?
25
Trump’s finances must be thoroughly investigated by the House Democrats, and Trump's interpreter(s) must be ordered to testify before the appropriate House Committee(s). If Trump is acting as a Russian asset, either for personal gain or because Putin has compromising information on him, or both, the House must introduce articles of impeachment.
13
It’s not true that no one knows what was said. Trump agreed to destroy NATO, weaken and divide America, closer relations with Russia, end sanctions, and Trump would get a hotels in Russia and join the oligarchs club and finally be a billionaire.
9
Occam's razor: the simplest explanation that accounts for all of the observations is most probably correct. There are elements of Trump's relationship with Putin and Russia that he does not want public, and he is willing to compromise the United States' position to keep it secret. That is why we need to have a Mueller investigation; to determine "Why?".
96
@Bill
EVERY SINGLE PRESIDENT in our nation's history has had confidential secrets that they kept from the public. That's why we have presidents and classified information. It is authorized by law.
1
Mallard’s Law: If it walks like a duck...etc.
4
@Aristotle Gluteus Maximus
Yes, indeed. But not every President had his campaign leadership meet with a foreign adversary who promised dirt on his opposition and then lied about the purpose of the meeting; a foreign adversary that subsequently hacked his opponent's email accounts and released the emails to do maximum damage during the campaign; and a President who's senior campaign official sought a back door channel with that adversary beyond the ears of US intelligence before his inauguration. That is the President and Russia is the adversary that we are talking about. Now why on earth would President Trump not want the US national security apparatus from knowing what they were talking about? As I said, the simplest explanation is most likely the correct one.
6
It's almost as if Trump trusts a foreign dictator more than he trusts members of his own administration, isn't it?
117
@TM Any doubts about it? His actions and talk only confirm it. Clearly, American best interests are the last thing on his mind.
5
It’s not a trust thing, it’s a doesn’t serve his personal interests.
5
you may have hit on something right there. couldn't at least you have an idea where he's going. Trump and all who knows.
@Karen K - even if Barr buries the Mueller report, we can still do a better job spotlighting Donald Trump's six bankruptcies and his money lifeline from Russia when reputable banks wouldn't touch him anymore. That spotlight story should accompany every week's announcement of the .13% economic growth contraction caused by Trump's spurious Shutdown - with the headline: Voters-this is who you've entrusted our economy to!
44
During the Obama years, Donald Trump's favorite "news" source, FoxNews, routinely depicted Obama as a "weak" leader against a strong leader like Putin. Aside from his long term business connections to Russia, which no doubt influence his views, Trump appears to take literally the mis- and dis-information on FoxNews. It's no wonder he privileges the opinions and goals of a Putin vs the democratically elected leaders of the West, who compromise with their political opponents, rather than having them shot or thrown off the tops of buildings.
26
@Gramercy
.....or poisoned!
2
Gee, I wonder if Putin offered Trump a bribe to pull the US out of NATO? With no transparency in Trump business dealings it wouldn’t be hard to pull off. Just sayin’ ...
34
@GN
More likely, Trump spent decades laundering money for Russian oligarchs through his luxury apartments in NYC, and Putin is blackmailing him with this information. Deutsche Bank does a lot of business with Russian oligarchs, was Trump's main lender for a long time, and was raided for money laundering. Trump son has said a large pay of Trump Inc's income was from Russia.
4
Trumps actions clearly depict what the conversations entailed.
38
I'm trying to imagine the response from his base....."Sure....what the President does should be secret. If Trump thinks I need to know something, he'll tell Hannity, and Sean will tell me..now about Hillary's email."
55
@joe
Trump's base worships the Confederacy. They are FOR treason. They arm themselves and train in militias for war against "the government," The government that they hate IS our Republic.
I wouldn't be surprised if Trump is not a traitor, but only pretends to be for his base.
1
I am constantly amazed at how Republicans and "The Base" can continue to turn a blind eye to Trump's behavior toward Putin and Russia. Obviously, Trump has some very good reasons for aligning himself with Putin. If this had been Obama acting this way, The Base would be freaking out and calling for impeachment. What will it take for them to wake up and start to realize that the Emperor is not wearing any clothes?!
32
Other GOP politicians are in on the gig. A visit to Moscow last fourth of July by a group of them needs to be examined and exposed.
6
Gotta love Sarah Sanders, the most under-appreciated comedian in DC.
She and others repeatedly say Trump has been tough on Russia, which has us rolling on the floor in laughter, recalling the 98-2 Senate vote early in the Trump Administration, blocking Trump Administration Russian sanctions relief efforts.
Fast forward to today, the Senate is advancing more legislation that would prevent Trump from relieving sanctions on his favorite organized crime oligarch and Manafort partner, Oleg Deripeska.
Of course, Mnuchin over at Treasury has constructed a fantasy which supposedly removes Oleg from control of Rusal, which has most knowledgeable Russian experts fighting unsuccessfully to suppress giggles.
Russian sanctions relief has been the central theme of the Trump cabal, from the Manafort managed campaign to Flynn's Inaugural texts to repeated Administration efforts and Congressional blocking.
Tough on the the Russians, that's a good one, Sarah!
117
In a Constiitutional government, a corrupt and possibly traitorous leader has no legal cover.
If the leader of our country has been having cladestine, off the record meetings with a foreign advisory, he needs to be immediately impeached so he can explain his actions.
Considering what's at stake, isn't this obvious? We don't need a Mueller investigation at this point.
26
@Charle
The Republicans in the Senate will refuse to consider impeachment. If they had any confidence in Pence's ability to win in 2020, they would have already done it. Somewhere out there is an agreement for the biggest Trump project of all--a Trump Tower in Moscow. Perhaps that will appear in Mueller's notes.
6
For all we know, Putin is communicating with trump thru twitter under an alias and in code.
Reminds me of that old movie, "Wag the Tail".
13
This Russia reporting is more than two years overdue. His behavior in the months leading up to the election told the while story. I smelled it then and those odors continue to be reaffirmed.
29
If it develops that Vladimir Putin indeed possesses blackmail power over Donald Trump, or, more likely, that the two men have privately -- even tacitly -- agreed on coordinated geopolitical actions -- including something as simple as the global promotion of strongman politics, since it helps them both (and probably promotes a global dynamic favorable to Russia, that Putin understands but about which Trump is clueless) -- then the Republicans in the U.S. Congress, particularly the Senate, will be highly blameworthy for seeing the smoke of this horrible presidency, but willfully ignoring the fire.
61
If one listens to the top generals and admirals, there is no question Russia is America's arch-enemy. The US was attacked by Russia - a modern warfare version of Putin lobbing missles over the Bering Sea into Alaska. I'm afraid to know the truth.
17
“If any president would have wanted witnesses and protection, it ought to have been Donald Trump,” said Richard N. Haass, the president of the Council on Foreign Relations and adviser to four presidents, most recently as President George W. Bush’s State Department policy planning director.
Which misses entirely the point that the only person who matters is the egomaniacal sociopath named Trump. Only what he says and does is relevant since he is the smartest, best-informed person on the planet, perhaps in the universe. He has everything under control, so why worry? In fact, he’s probably playing Putin since he’s master of the deal.
15
@Cartcomm Quite the opposite, Bone Spurs isn't as smart as he'd like to think. Putin is PLAYING him.
2
Its a forgone conclusion that Trump is ignorant and arrogant, with the latter trait being the most plausible reason accounting for his highly inappropriate and very concerning arranged and impromptu meetings with Putin. Trump doesn't listen to anyone and his actions portrayed herein are highly suspect. In dealing with a seasoned intelligence officer, a known thug and a wily leader Trump was undoubtedly briefed on how he should conduct dealings with Putin. Instead he trusts his own instincts, discussed possible deals, highly secure information and attempted to ingratiate himself with this cagey adversary. Unusual and unprecedented behavior for our president, to be sure. Alarming, suspect and even more damning given the events and US actions, many of the international, that have subsequently taken place (i.e., Syria, Ukraine, Europe) increasingly seem more the coincidental - they result in benefits to Putin and suggest a very ominous pattern detrimental to our disastrous foreign policy and, more urgently, our national security.
19
Trump on Putin: "I really believe that when he tells me that, he means it." So Trump trusts the President of our #2 adversary and an ex-KGB Lt. Colonel (16 years) over his own State Department, FBI, and advisers.
Methinks this is more than just a hotel and/or a tape from one night stand in Moscow. Of course the secrecy opens up a wide range of conspiracy theories, but I believe this is tied to Exxon Mobil's $3.2 Billion deal with Rosneft (2013) for access to Russian arctic oil reserves in return for Exxon drilling technology. Obama's sanctions (still in place), stymied that, and Trump's goal is to remove said sanctions. Of course, he's failing at that as well. Remember Rex Tillerson of Exxon and ex-State Department? He gave up too knowing that Trump was blowing the deal.
In any case, this isn't smoke, it's Fire! And Republicans know it and have turned a blind eye, head in the sand, hoping the nightmare will magically evaporate. What a bunch of cowards. Thank God for the founding fathers who created a system of checks and balances, and I'm looking for those checks in the form of the new Democrat-run house to restore balance.
42
I was at a gathering last weekend where my Democratic Congressman was present. In the give and take of a question and answer session, he asked the audience if we had seen the movie, "The Manchurian Candidate." I thought this was stunning. This man knows something we don't know and I concluded it's worse than what I previously thought.
40
What your Democrat Congressman "seems to know" is how to use innuendo to cast aspersions when saying something outright would make him look like a conspiracy kook. He's not quite ready to blow all of his credibility in public.
It worked, didn't it? He has you believing that Trump is a Russian asset or some such "guilty until proven innocent" nonsense.
1
I know this is petty and insignificant against the whole dire predicament we're in, but I'd love a Stephen Colbert caption on the lewd hand gesture trump made across the table to vlad during that dinner in Hamburg. I know how I'd describe it.
6
I doubt the two leaders were sharing recipes for pineapple upside down cake. When in doubt. throw out. Trump is endangering every man, woman and child on this planet.
16
Previous presidents did not give the news media transcripts off their private conversations with foreign heads of stare either. Of they had, foreign heads of states would have refused to talk with them in private.
'The probable reason that Trump "didn’t want the State Department or members of the White House team to know what he was talking with Putin about"is that in the early days of his administration some State Department officials and White House staffers leaked everything he told them to the news media, including private Oval Office conversations.
4
@William Case You make a conceivably valid point. If secret transcripts were the ONLY thing, then yes, perhaps your explanation would make sense. But couple that secrecy with all the other suspicious activities and a strong, very strong, circumstantial case of collusion/treason/corruption manifests. "No one was supposed to find out" is not a valid defense for crimes against the American people. Those leakers are patriots.
7
No. The previous chief executives documented their conversations. Why did people get so upset about Hillary's missing emails? Because they were missing documents. You can't have it both ways.
4
They leaked because Trump misrepresented or omitted conversations he had with those leaders, and their countries' callouts were different from what we were told. If the president and his staff were at all honest, there would be no incentive to leak.
6
Think the reporter better review the history books. Both Reagan and Nixon met Russian leaders alone. All presidents have had one on one meetings and phone calls with other world leaders.
Given the propensity of career government people to selectively leak about Trump, always in a negative light you notice, one can hardly blame his caution.
The reason there is so much anti-Trump stuff coming out in the Times these days is because of leaks being provided to the little known Epoch Times. Closed door testimony from DOJ FBI officials is coming out and it doesn’t support the MSM narrative we’re being fed. The Times is trying to distract you with recycled versions of same old same old anti-Trump copy.
Relax and enjoy the ride. It’s going to get good.
2
No other president has engaged with Russia or the Soviet Union like this while having a huge (and deserved) cloud of suspicion over their head concerning Russia. No other president has been so unprepared and ignorant in dealing with such a wiley and seasoned adversary. - Of course his actions would be suspect and alarming!
2
Trump & Putin were discussing Realestate. It is well known that Trump wanted to build a hotel in Moscow & Putin was going to get a cut of the deal, & in return Putin will help Trump win the election. It was a matter of you scratch my back & I will scratch yours.What Trump overlooked, it was a Crime , that would cause his Impeachment.
6
@Joe Blow
Putin's take? A $ 50,000,000.00 penthouse apartment in the hotel gratis. Would have loved to have been a fly on the wall during the private chat. The interpreter(s) should be subpoenaed asap.
3
And yet we're still not marching in the street, demanding answers.
10
March Jan 19th. There's an organized protest.
This grifter is the most dishonest and self-aggrandizing President that the United States that we have ever had.
Further no other President has ever acted to hide his dealings with our security people and the American people.
Hopefully, we will eventually get to the bottom of Trump's and Putin's swamps, and Trump will pay the ultimate price and become a one term President for not protecting all of us, the US, instead of himself.
16
When will we ever get over delusions of winning the cold war? All the past dreads of reds infiltrating our national government? All the thousands (millions?) of lives lost in fighting proxy wars. All the opportunity costs of the trillions lost, including not dealing early on with climate change.
All it took was the falling of one domino. Not with a bang but with a whimper.
13
Trump's relentless efforts to continue to make this country and the planet dependent on fossil fuels also benefits Russia. Russia/Putin needs the revenue from their natural gas supplies and Russia wants to exploit fossil fuel resources in the Arctic. Stop the need for fossil fuels and we stop and defund Russia.
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How ridiculous. The support for oil and gas exploration and production puts downward pressure on oil prices and damages Russia's economy. Just another example of the muddled thinking of liberals. It's in the same league as suggesting Trump took loans from Russian banks so they have something to hold over him. Ahem, if Trump in fact does owe Russian banks millions who really has leverage over whom?
@Allen: Developing non-Russian sources of gas and petroleum reduces Russia's market dominance and their implied threat to Europe. Developing renewable energy sources undercuts them even more. Being indebted to Russian financiers certainly doesn't give Trump leverage over them, as they undoubtedly have liens on his property and could seize it from him. Or reveal the details and expose the fact that he's not really a billionaire. Muddled thinking indeed.
Trump should remember who is paying his salary. He is so self important that he thinks he has little obligation for the American public's welfare, who are his employers. He should also remember which country he represents all the time. There are no time-outs for competing interests in his job.
Trump is so undisciplined that he would say anything that came into is head. It is just as well that he does not read the CIA briefings he gets.
8
Trump is so out of his depth in dealing with a pro like Putin (and most recently Erdowan) that it's just stunning.
One one side is a former Soviet KGB actor specializing in so-called "Humint," or human intelligence, skilled in the ability to find weaknesses with which to compromise his target.
On the other side is a man-child in desperate need of approval in virtually every aspect of life; who lives for the validation that he cannot give even to himself because he knows his own secret, which is that despite having accidentally wound up as the president he's an empty vessal. I would imagine that all those bankruptcies (and bailout from Dad) weight heavily on him.
Trump is abysmally outmatched.
31
@Bob Burns Purely supposition, but I have a feeling that if you could crawl inside Trump's head, making your way over the mountains of adolescent sexual fantasies involving large mamma, wading through the gullies of greed and avarice, through the well oiled defenses against introspection, when you got to the core of Donald Trump you would find staring back at you that fetid sewer of a man Fred Trump.
My guess is that so much of what drives Trump is an unquenchable desire to be the "killer" that his father admonished him to be. The he-man, the Alpha lion, the man so obviously better than other men that none should ever be given cause to doubt. Trump is still trying to convince his father that he is that man.
But he is just a sad and pathetic little man. A diminished thing. So sad and pathetic that his eventual downfall may stir up a wisp of sympathy from the more soft hearted among us. Hopefully soon.
3
Don the Con is compromised. Putin understands the importance of the financing he has at his disposal for Trump family projects since they cannot get financing from legitimate sources. Because of that, Putin plays Trump like a fiddle.
Trump's behavior is all about how to shore up his future after a destructive presidency intended to Make Russia Great Again.....at the expense of 70 years of an alliance that has kept Russia Creep at bay and the alliance strong.
The GOP, Graham and McConnell have all buried their heads. Graham is shocked by the very notion of possible treason because of the discovery of a counterintelligence investigation on Trump.
What is really shocking is Graham's level of shock about the investigation. On what planet has he been? Maybe it's just good acting. Either way, Graham and McConnell have failed the country and now want to have an excuse of being blindsided by this Con.
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When I read this article and many of the comments I can’t help but think that Chicago Professor John Mearsheimer and Stephen Cohen from Princeton are right about their comments on the deeply rooted Russophobia in the United Sates: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJBQikfYyKs&feature=youtu.be. This may have historical and ideological reason. But it is also true that Americans don’t know anything about Russia, their historical traumas or the real problems of that country.
3
@C.O. But we do know at least one small thing about modern Russia. We know that as far back as the 60s they promised "We will bury you." Frankly, that, and their subsequent geopolitical behavior in the ensuing 60 years is enough to convince many of us that perhaps Russia doesn't not have America's best interests at heart.
As for their "historical traumas or real problems" I fail to see how that mitigates the foregoing paragraph. It is right up there with saying that the person who killed your wife during a robbery has suffered trauma and real problems. (As though that were not the normal operating atmosphere of every living human.) It is irrelevant and betrays a mode of looking at the world much better suited to the monastery than life in the wider world.
1
@C.O. I don't have to know the physics of combustion to recognize fire. And while many Americans are ignorant of Russia, those providing the evidence of their nefarious activities are not. Don't urinate on my back and tell me it's raining.
@Bounarotti
What the West, in particular Winston Churchill, said about Russian Communism is not so much different: „ To strangulate Communism at its birth“ were Churchills words 1949 referring to the failed military attempt of the West from 1918 to 1920 to beat the Red Armee in the Russian civil war. And after the second world war which cost Russia 20 million deaths Churchill was ready to march on against Russia together with the leftovers of the German Army. This readiness to bury the other can be seen on both sides. And don’t forget about the Brzeziński doctrin and its geostrategic imperatives after the collaps of the Soviet Union. It is John Mearsheimer's new book The great Delusion: Liberal Dreams and International Realities that tries to finally return to international reason.
The sad part about this report is that even if Trump were proven to be a Russian stooge, the religious right would see it as an act of God. The Republicans would mimalize the impact. Fox News would say it wasn't true and the true believers would agree. Trump gives them what they want, power over the rest of us.
34
Trump can run but he can't hide (the notes). Wait! I don't think he can run, jog or even race walk.
2
I recall that Trump’s mind was influenced by Bannon’s ideological beliefs in an union of Christian White Nationalism against the rest of the heathen world. As Trump would say it would be good to have a positive relationship with Putin and cement this union.This would appeal to his religious right white Republican base who share this evangelical credo.
But with Trump it is almost always about the money and his Organization. For years he has supported his real estate operations with laundered money from Eastern European and Russian oligarchs sponsored by Putin and for years he has envisioned a Trump Branded Tower Moscow built with the money from sanctioned Kremlin favored banks. He is totally compromised by his financial interests and his dependency on Russia and thus of course Putin. In addition he shares Putin’s autocratic
viewpoints and again admires Putin’s strong leadership more than his predecessor President Obama. Something he stated many times in his Presidential campaign. I believe strongly that he is Putin’s pocket and in many ways his Puppet. Thus, everything is bizarre in his Russian contacts- secret meetings, leaking national security secrets in the Oval Office, and so many contacts during the campaign.
He is a traitor and always lies.
No collusion repeated endless means the opposite.
Yes Trump has told us that he colluded and worse in his desire to leave NATO he is fulfilling Putin’s dream of weakening the Western alliance and American national security.
15
@IN
recommend you to read this excerpt of a new book by John Mearsheimer published by Yale University Press: https://nationalinterest.org/feature/great-delusion-liberal-dreams-and-international-realities-32737
1
I don't know what sacred principle of royal privilege is being protected here, but enough is enough. Democracy can't function with this kind of intentional opacity. It is painfully obvious that this president is extremely secretive about his communications with Putin or people tied to Putin. An enormous number of lies have been told about the meeting in the Trump Tower with Veselnitskaya. Trump has insisted on meeting in private with Putin for hours and confiscated interpreter notes. No president has done that before. There can be no innocent reason for that. After the meeting in Helsinki, he came out and threw his own intelligence agencies under the bus. There is something wrong, here, and it is as plain as the nose on your face. We need to subpoena the interpreter who was at the meeting in Helsinki, no matter what principle is bent in the process.
16
@Joe
I find noteworthy that Trump's ambassador to Germany, Grenell, is pushing very hard to stop the Russian pipeline Northstream 2 to Germany. Trump is a terrible president but in this case he very keen to protect the economic interests of the US versus Russia.
1
Given what we see and hear, daily, from Trump we know that his sources of information are limited and biased, we know he hasn't the patience or perhaps the ability to review serious intelligence documents or to listen to briefings; we even know from a taped 2008 Howard Stern interview that he cannot multiply 16 by 7 in his head.
Even if you ignore the stream of lies and invective, and even if he wasn't compromised by his financial dealings, he doesn't HAVE the cognitive wherewithal either to remember all that was said, or to exercise prudence on what flows forth from his mouth. I think it would be safe to say that he has perhaps the poorest record of anyone who has ever held that position of appointing people without reviewing their backgrounds thoroughly.
So even if there's not sufficient proof that he is treasonous -- he has no business being in multiple private meetings with a major competitor without aides, and without records. The best that can be said about it is that it is foolish, and his mistakes are probably undermining the interests of the US.
The worst: he is, with full intention, a traitor.
13
Re Trump’s comments to a NY Times reporter that Trump said were off the record but are now included in this article. It’s unclear if there is such a thing as journalism ethics at the Times anymore. That’s a previously unthinkable crossing of a very bright line. As for the end (Resist) justifying the means (by any means), that slippery slope rationale can easily be applied to other politicians the Times dislikes, now and in the future.
3
@Dave
That's funny!
Perhaps the Pentagon Papers should never have been leaked so that even more American soldiers could be slaughtered in Viet Nam for a useless war and perhaps Deep Throat should not have shared information about Watergate that took exposed Nixon's corruption.
If Trump is so innocent why doesn't he show us his tax returns, share all the information from his conversations with Putin? Why does he keep getting caught lying on camera?
He is putting this country in danger and trying to undermine our democracy. He is likely senile, which is also dangerous in a leader.
You should be thankful we still have some semblance of a free press and are not just the Fox/WSJ propaganda machine.
2
The Republicans in Congress need to try putting our country before their party. They are violating their oath of office and refusing to defend the Constitution “against all enemies; foreign and domestic”
14
While I blame Trump for being duped, I blame the Republican legislators for collusion.
I see the silence and anti- democratic maneuvering of Mitch McConnell and other republican in leadership roles as much more nefarious. They will bring down our democracy. It’s stomach turning.
16
Just based on these meetings, Putin owns Trump. He can reveal a truthful summary or transcript of what was said, or one that is not truthful, either of which can destroy Trump. Basically he can get rid of Trump anytime he feels he is useless to Russia.
Example: Russia reveals that Putin requested Trump to withdraw the US from NATO and/or Syria. Did they really discuss this? Trump denies he is following Putin ‘s directiona? Who do you believe? Quite frankly, Putin has more credibility than Trump.
7
Maybe it’s diplomacy, he’s doing legitimate policy that serves both countries well.
Or ...?
2
This is a totally unanticipated nightmare: Is the party of Lincoln controlled by the Russians?
2
@SmartGirlNYC
Maybe they are still smarting over Lincoln's SOS Seward buying Alaska from them!
It's all a long con for them to get it back.
it stupefies me that we think he's compromised, and lets face it the intelligence services know the answer to this question by now but notice how Mueller seems to have indicted everyone else but not the Donald, and we allow him to do so much damage, to our country, our alliances, our people and the functioning of our government. He's a traitor; one only need look at his actions, and no one raises a finger to remove him. His own party protects him; McConnell, Graham; they have to know what's going on; have they been bought off or threatened? Do they approve of this? They're clearly on board and in my book they should share the appellation I'd apply to Trump- TRAITOR. And people are beginning to think out loud that he'll refuse to leave, even if there is an election in 2020 and he looses legitimately. I think so too. Hate to say it but I think it may be the end for the US as we know it. I doubt we have the resolve and the fortitude to prevent it from happening.
4