No, no, no. Not only is this risky, it diminishes every horrible, anti-democracy, traitorous thing he has done: war mongering, insulting our allies, meeting with the enemy with no public record and with the GOP refusing to pass dems request to subpoena the translators record so we can KNOW WHAT WE PAID FOR in his trip to Finland to talk to his bro;children in cages, lying about immigrant crime while immigration is the lowest its been in decades, and just yesterday and today found out he lowered methane emissions for oil producers so he can burn up the planet faster? And, he demoted the Ambassador to the US for the European Union, reducing his office from a member to an institution;this is the tip of the iceberg of what we don't know and it comes out accidentally or by some great investigative reporter; Raw Story reported that trump said if he didn't get his wall, there will be deaths, lots of deaths, but no one else reported this. WHY? Deaths by what means, at whose hands? Same as when Milo popanopalos or whatever his last name said, "I can't wait to get my gun and go after journalists" and some moron who listens to him killed the six journalists at the Washington Gazette.Milo said don't blame him, but he incited that person to murder,just like trump does with statements like the one reported by Raw Story. No, he has to be impeached now; the damage he has done to Democracy & the planet is immeasurable and that is what we know;what we don't know will be devastating.
27
Trump is already a lame duck president. Let him continue his insanity and be the face of the Republican Party in 2020. If he were to be removed from office all the energy driving the Democratic Party would stifle just enough to let Republicans have a chance of winning.
8
Impeach ASAP!!!!. Hold criminals accountable. Don’t just let them slink off into the night, with all their benefits intact!
16
Not “go home” but “go directly to jail”
25
Let's hope RBG survives two more years of Trump.
If Trump is actually impeached, and by some miracle the Senate concurs, then we have President Pence who would surely pardon Trump.
In this scenario we would still have the prospect of another evangelical christian on the Supreme Court if something should happen to one of the "liberal"justices.
11
This is not a political calculation. It is a matter of legality. Either Trump has broken the law or he hasn't. There is no - 'let's wait till the next election' when it comes to crime. This is not an extramarital affair we're talking about here (with Trump this is small change). We're talking about a bad person committing many crimes. When you drive drunk, they take you to jail. When you rob the 7-11, they take you to jail. There is no question as to what to do.
27
This column rests on the assumption that our nation can recover from Trump, even if we have to wait for two years to do so.
The assumption is flawed. The degenerate in the Oval Office is himself degenerating rapidly. Who knows what crazy scheme he will cook up that will put the nation in immediate peril? Bomb Estonia? Invade Mexico? Sign a nonaggression pact with North Korea?
Envision a drunken driver who is weaving all over the road. Is it best for a highway patrolman to wait until the driver kills someone, or to pull him over and put him in the drunk tank?
The president is certainly not the only crazy person in our government, but presently he is the most dangerous. Pull him over. Give him a ticket that reads "Unfit for Office."
22
In rethinking this question, I have a suggestion which to my knowledge no one has seriously researched: How much would it cost to buy the Presidency from Trump. What I am talking about is just pay him for leaving and not running for further public office.
Trump has amazing power in office which enables him to elicit "favors" from all sorts of folks, from Hsi to Putin, from the Kochs to the Mercers. He has a lot of debt and probably makes about $30 a year. How about just paying him a lump sum to resign, and in return to drop all law suits against him.
Would $30 billion due it? It sounds like a lot of money, and it would be a payoff to a crook, but it would stoop the crimes he is committing against the United States which are also causing us a fortune. The resignation agreement would have to include his children and also require them to never run for office again.
Given how much Trump and his family are selling out the United States every day, I think it might be a bargain.
4
I suppose the best way to dump Trump would be to install dictator government like Venezuela. If that doesn't work, have major media propaganda relentlessly attack President Trump with fake news. Alternatively, people might consider accepting the will of the American voter who elected President Trump with 270 electoral votes. Better yet, the disaffected might want to emigrate to another country, i.e., Cuba, Chia, Venezuela. They would fit right in, be happy living there. They're not welcome in America..
2
Trump should be impeached as soon as practicable and the GOP should be seen as accomplice of this disgraceful administration.
Then any American with a minimum of common sense would finally clean up the mess left by Trump in 2020.
11
I agree, the only way to end Trumpism is a stunning and embarrassing defeat in a national election. Any type of forced removal would just make a martyr of him to his supporters.
9
It's not about tempting. It's about what must be done. If he's behaving "inappropriately" with the Russians he must be stopped and for the health of the country and our future he must be punished.
7
Dump him on the other side of "the Wall."
10
This column has me stunned. You're saying that if it is shown that our president is colluding with an enemy, or in other words, is a traitor to this country, then Congress should hold off on impeaching and convicting him, and he should get a chance to run again, because his electoral base might be swayed into seeing him as a martyr.
I'm having trouble finding words here. Basically, you're saying there is no right or wrong, there is no loyalty to country, there is only political expediency and the coming elections.
I'm completely shocked, and I have to assume you live within the Beltway.
16
I'm rather alarmed at the fact that we're having a difficult time gathering evidence and "Grand Inquisitors" like Kenneth Starr and David Schippers, when we impeached President Clinton for a personal, albeit moral, transgression (officially, it was because of perjury to a grand jury) in a comparatively short time.
Yes, Clinton committed a serious offence but nothing compared to what Trump is guilty of; at least, Clinton's presidency was legitimate and he was a very able leader, however incapable he was as a husband.
It really goes to show how hypocritical Trump supporters and the people representing them really are. It also shows the inability of the Democrats to actually do something to prevent this train wreck, Orwellian government from further derailment.
10
I believe the reason that the Mueller report is taking so long to finish is that he and his investigators keep discovering new trails of malfeasance to investigate. I don't doubt that once the report is released there will be ample grounds to pursue impeachment in the House. Whether or not the Senate votes to convict, the depths of Trump's corruption will have been exposed in what amounts to a national trial and that is its utility. (And this is aside from any criminal indictments of Trump in federal or state courts.) At that point, he will be a crippled president and a fatally crippled candidate and everything the Republicans don’t do to punish or reject him will be seen, justifiably, as aiding and abetting a criminal president. They will have to spend the entire 2020 campaign justifying why they didn’t convict him. He is their Frankenstein and their albatross - they defend him at their peril.
13
Winning in an election
Who would of thought of such an idea?
2
Voting Trump out in November, 2020 would be the most satisfying solution, if it is followed by indictment and incarcerations in January, 2021 -- assuming the looser of said election will permit peaceful transition of power to his successor.
10
Weak argument. It’s like not prosecuting someone who’s terminally ill because they might die anyway. Additionally, there’s a scenario, however unlikely, that the author egregiously failed to consider: In 2020, what if Trump wins and the Dems lose the house? Where would that leave us? Critical thinking is required now more than ever.
6
The last sentence of this opinion piece should read "...will say to Mr. Trump: Go home. There are FBI Agents waiting there to arrest you."
4
I agree and was wrong not to see it sometime ago.... Pelosi has shown her more mature vision in opposing it and seeing the ultimate bigger danger to the GOP. Impeachment is a hip shot for vengence and often that doesn'r work well long term. Trump is too ripe a target for the 2020 election if the DEMs can do a better job and nail him come election and who knows what Meuller is going to do but I suspect Trump will delay that process and squirm out of it just as he has done so far.
The election, if Dems win, is a sure thing, impeachment will just be an ego contest between the parties and detract us from the major mess and issues the GOP and Trump have created.
5
There is another way to remove a president that was not part of the original constitution via the 25th Amendment. If all the facts and truth comes out about the totality of Trump's interactions with Putin and others in Russia, the ambition in Pence could turn from sycophant to opportunist.
2
While waiting for the election cycle to chew Trump up and spit him out is the better way to go, I don't think we can afford to wait.
6
Tomasky's argument is pure sophistry.
Trump is a traitor and an agent of Russia.
Just think of the additional havoc this miscreant will wreak while we patiently allow him the courtesy of a gracious exit.
If allowed to, he will continue to worm his way into the heart of our republic until his autocratic proclivities finish devouring both republicanism and democracy.
10
What I fear is the ongoing damage to the environment and our institutions, which are being violated. But under Pence they would probably continue apace. The damage that is being done is deeply discouraging to me about our Repbulic.
6
TRUMP MUST BE REQUIRED UNDERGO An extensive physical examination, including an extensive neuropsychiatric evaluation, along with brain scans and comprehensive neuropsychological evauations. Only then can it be determined whether there is a medical basis for Trump's removal from office. We the People are entited to know that our public representatives are taking care of themselves medically so that they can fulfill their oaths of office. Medical evaluations can be required along with any other courses of action Congress may pursue. Le's not put the cart before the horse. Comprehensive medical examinations have never been provided for Trump. He must cooperate with them to fulfill his oath of office.
9
How optimistic, you all think we are going to get to vote again? I will be pleasantly surprised if we get to vote, and amazed if it isn't contested or denied. You have heard what is going on in that small county in North Carolina? A dry run for invalidating the next election.
9
The number of votes Democrats led Republicans in 2018 will most likely increase in 2020; the GOP will not only lose the Presidency but won't be able to get it back for even decades. I guess a good number of decent Republicans think something should be done while the damage isn't catastrophic.
4
The Democrats need to nominate Tulsi Gabbard, who has the record of actually serving in armed forces; as well as being against the bipartisan foreign policy establishment regarding intervention-first, regime change nonsense, something Hillary Clinton fell far short on.
Ms. Gabbard (or whoever nominee is) would also do well to fully embrace the unanimous recommendations of President Clinton's Bipartisan Commission on Immigration Reform, led by African-American, Democratic Congresswoman and civil rights icon Barbara Jordan. Including Ms. Jordan's recommendations of chain migration reform to support nuclear family admission but not aunts, uncles, cousins, etc.; reduction of legal immigration from the 1980's & 1990's average of 750,000 per year down to 500,000 per year, as response to the labor market changes from NAFTA, automation, and laws that weakened labor unions; elimination of the diversity visa lottery; and strong enforcement vs illegal immigration. Like Ms. Jordan, Ms. Gabbard could lead on this issue with compassion, dignity and moral authority.
Although Jordan Commission was against amnesty for illegal aliens and did not include it in its recommendations, given the reality of estimated 22 million illegal aliens in US (per Yale/MIT analysis), Democratic nominee may want to consider getting behind work permits and legalization for illegal aliens who stay. Or permitting them to return to home country & apply legally like everyone else, without penalty.
4
Before there can be a House impeachment, there must be a House impeachment inquiry.
Until the inquiry is complete there is no way of knowing how 20 Republicans in the senate will vote since they are not in possession of all the facts since there has not been an inquiry.
So, all the pundits and navel gazers who love to say the House should not impeach if the senate won't convict are endorsing an unconstitutional argument since that argument puts impeachment power effectively in the hands of the senate, which an originalist reading of the constitution indicates is wrong.
5
The most important thing isn’t for Donald Trump’s removal, it’s for a clear demonstration that the nation’s institutions are still working. If the Special Council concludes there was any combination of collusion or corruption or obstruction of justice in the means with which Donald Trump seized the Presidency, then Congress has a moral and patriotic responsibility to impeach and convict. Fiat justicia ruat caelum.
6
Removal by election in 2020 assumes that Trump will lose. Many (myself included) felt he had little chance in 2016, and wow was I wrong, probably influenced by the FBI's fiasco around HC's emails. Of course, impeachment could follow a reelection, but by then the Repubs in the Senate would be greatly emboldened. To me, instead, it's time to start vote counting in the Senate to see how close it would be.
7
The risk of waiting for the 2020 election to get rid of him is clear: the Trump campaign is very likely to directly or indirectly support efforts to rig the election. Last time was Russia/social media - next year it could be a Russia-friendly country with expertise in voting machine tampering or similar, who knows? The risk is simply too big to ignore.
9
If/when the Mueller investigation (or the newly minted congress), lays bear evidence of collusion and corruption, a reckoning MUST be forthcoming.
We owe it to our children to highlight the consequences of such actions. And, we must signal to other government officials - present and future - that there are greater ramifications than losing an election for betraying your country.
6
I agree with those who want impeachment and those who want to throw the bum out in 2020. But meanwhile, every day I read of more damage done to our nation. Every Cabinet officers just does away with regulations meant to keep our medicine, our food, our air, our water, our stock market safe. How much damage can we sustain? The damage to our markets alone, with leaving TPP and China now assuming our formerly no. 1 position in world trade will never be repaired. Trump’s love for autocrats has made us a gangster nation. We no longer defend democracy wherever it blossoms. How long will he be allowed to just trample on everything we stand for? How much damage is acceptable? He should be. Imprisoned until we know if he is a traitor or not. He shouldn’t be allowed to inflict one more hint of damage to us.
8
There may be an argument for the House to start articles of impeachment, but there is little to no chance that removal from office would occur. Given that situation, President Trump would emerge even stronger to his base and have a club to bludgeon any opponent in 2020. Moreover, I find a President Pence to be a more frightening consequence. Mike Pence is "true believer", and is incapable of questioning his beliefs. Those beliefs are guided by religious principles that he would merge with the Constitution, despite the language of the First Amendment. True believers are more frightening than narcissists. Pence would think that he is "chosen" to lead America, a very dangerous thought. Let the electoral process proceed and don't give Trump any more ammunition to elevate his invincibility. Once he loses an election, we will only have to worry about the fact that he may not leave the White House, but then that is why we have the FBI and the Secret Service. I am sure they would show him the door.
6
@MPS Mike Pence is scarier even than Trump, if he really believes in what he says. The last thing we need is a white evangelical running the country.
5
The risk is not re-election, it's what additional damage he will do. Meeting in private with Putin and refusing to turn over the notes, then executing a number of key policy decisions to benefit Putin is just the beginning of what atrocities Donnie Boy is capable of committing. This is not a normal political situation that calls for normal political strategy.
10
From the Whitehouse to the statehouse to the outhouse, many more Republicans bite the dust in 2020 with DJT at the top of the ticket. With the House in Democratic control DOJ can’t stifle the Mueller report and the Russians can be held at bay.
Run Donny run.
3
You just don't get it, Mr. Tomasky.
Every minute Trump remains in the White House, we are that much closer to experiencing what happened in Germany after Hitler came to power in 1933.
I can definitely picture Trump building concentration camps and gassing people like me.
I prefer NOT to wait for Trump's Gestapo to knock on my door one evening.
And Mr. Tomasky, a man who works for Russia's genocidal dictator Vlad Putin is not legally qualified to be President of the United States. It's that simple.
12
@Jay David
How on earth can you actually believe that there is anything about Trump which approves of concentration camps and gassing people? There is zero such evidence of any such inclinations. There is also NO evidence he "works for" Putin or ever has. If you hate Trump's character and policies, fine, I understand your right to such views, but there is simply zero relationship between your fears and anything Trump has ever said or done. You need to look harder for facts and evidence, because I believe you have been overcome by fears that have no basis in reality. Hilary Clinton took donations from Russia to make our uranium supply available to Russia to use in weapons against us, but you are raging about Trump without any factual basis.
1
Of course conclusively this President can be ousted by the ballot box. But my greatest problem is that ballots won't be cast until Nov. 2020. 2 yrs! 2 yrs. more of this President would mean anarchy in our country. There are very formidable, real reasons for impeachment and if Congress wants even indictment especially if treason is one of the reasons. Mueller's investigation would be the proof in the pudding. Now if only there were some patriotic Republicans!
6
Much of this makes sense. However, Trump is so volatile and petty that I fear what he might do each and every day he remains in office. I believe if we had not been at war in Iraq and Afghanistan, George W. Bush would not have won a 2nd term. Many people believe we should not change leaders when at war. Would Trump engage in a needless war in order to show us all how manly he is and to sway voters who subscribe to that reasoning? Of course he would. He has already engaged us in a needless tradewar and shutdown. He would do anything. He is already alienating our allies and embracing dictators.
That said, I believe it all depends upon what comes out of this Mueller investigation. Would we want our lawmakers to turn a blind eye to someone who has committed serious legal offences and/or conspired with a foreign, non-democratic, autocratic leader to win the presidency? Each and every day presidential norms are violated and we are becoming inured to them. If even further egregious violations come to light, we must at some point stand to say this is intolerable. We must have a moral compass as a nation that excludes crooks, liars, racists, foreign collaborators and traitors from our leadership. By consistently turning a blind eye and even covering up for the actions of this president, the GOP has already shown themselves for what they are. Lie down with dogs and wake up with fleas, as they say.
8
'' They will be trying to air out the Trump stench for a generation, maybe two, which is precisely the fate they deserve.''
There was a George Carlin bit. " Think of the average voter. Pretty disgusting. Then realize half of them are stupider. "
The average voter lacks the long term memory of goldfish.
They will remember nothing in the morning. Generations, Fagetaboutit. Look at the success of right to work laws in formerly strong union states.
8
Trump needs to be indicted, convicted, and imprisoned. Soon.
15
How many more life long appointments to the Judiciary should the Traitor and thief be allowed to make? Should we give him more Supreme Court nominations? Impeach the crook now.
11
@Andrew B
Ask yourself: who will Pence nominate?
3
In the event the House of Reptesentatives impeaches President Trump, the idea that our Republican Senators will not find him guilty, REGARDLESS of the charges or evidence presented to them, is a very difficult assumption to accept.
Partisan politics may have stretched the bounds of reason in recent years, but certainly not to the point of a complete denial of law.
Mr. Tomasky, you seem to have taken Trump’s brag that he “could shoot someone on Fifth Avenue” with impunity, far too literally. It was a ridiculous statement, made by Donald Trump when he was unexpectedly winning primary after primary. The gloating of a narcissist. Not to be taken at face value
Not to extend the silliness, but with regard to your essay today, it’s worthy of mention —> if Trump did shoot someone in public, 100 senators would vote to remove him from office. The rule of law is still in force in America.
Michael, I think you’ve assumed too much.
6
No. He is corrupt and incompetent. His administration does damage to our country every day. Who knows what harm might come in a real crisis, either precipitated by Trump or by unforeseen events? The responsible course of action is to take steps to remove him from office as quickly as possible. If he survives impeachment, we can all vote. This situation requires us to do what’s right, not act based on political considerations.
5
What’s the best way to dump him? Agree he was right when he endlessly proclaimed the election was rigged, and install the rightful winner. One would think that the Secret Service, after learning the FBI is concerned he is a threat to this country, would love to perp walk him off the premises.
5
This is a very irritating and concerning opinion piece and underscores a critical reason why Trump and many on the right believe that there is a media bias against him. When you write and publish....
"Theres one more reason I'd prefer to see President Trump laid low via the ballot. It will do more long-term damage to the republican party"
Really NYT? That is a very bullish stance to be publishing. Opinion pieces reflect back on your credibility as a paper. Don't be a slave to what sells, report on objective issues, or at least make an attempt at being impartial.... Perhaps you don't care and would rather wage war against the Fox News' of the journalistic world.
You don't have to sink so low and I would like to think this paper could be better, yet one could only hope someone is listening to my plight.
2
@Tom I utterly agree with you. The New York Times seems to be forgetting that despite its own partisan vitriol against Republicans and apparent preference therefore for a one party state, approximately half the country or very close to it supports Trump's policies. Opinion piece author - Do you want half the country's voters to be forced to vote for a one party system? They may have values which you find inimical, but face it, you have no right to tell them that they have no right to seek to put their favored policies into practice by electing people who YOU find awful. You don't get to be a dictator to the rest of the U.S. voters.
1
In addition to "Go Home," our soon-to-be ex-president should also be told "Go Directly to Jail – Do Not Pass Go – Do Not Collect $200."
6
Where in the election 2020 scenario do the offending family go to jail? Just "going home" is not enough.
8
Trump hasn't shown any compunctions about violating norms so it's entirely possible that even if he lost the 2020 election he would refuse to step down especially since he'd likely be indicted once he was no longer President.
Hopefully, he'd finally lose support of the Republicans and the gov't could send in marshals to forcibly remove him from the White House (I'm gleeful imagining the arrest would be like that of Jerry Lundegaard in Fargo!), but who knows?
3
@J. Wong
I also fear that he will have to be dragged bodily out of his executive time room whether he is impeached or loses reelection.
1
Impeachment will allow Pence to pardon him, he needs to be voted out and prosecuted and go to prison.
5
Trump and his family will defect to Russia when they make a presidential visit to Moscow. He is not coming back. I am 100% sure of it.
I knew he was a russian agent when I read the dossier in Jan 2017 and heard that Jared Kushner asked Russian embassy for secret direct communications link to Kremlin.
Is there any reasonable explanation, is there any doubt?
3
Yeah, let's wait. What a dumb idea.
4
Of course the best way of getting rid of a "bad" president is to vote him out. But this president is a criminal and I have always felt that his presidency is not legitimate. The standard response to this view is that it is "unprecedented". That is a cop out! He is not fit to be president and he must be removed. Every day that he continues in this office further destroys the foundations of our republic. He should be removed immediately especially if there is even a hint that he acted on behalf of Russia.
3
If Trump actually runs again in 2020, the best way to get rid of him will be to register as a Republican and vote in the primaries against him. This strategy also might get rid of right wing extremist in the Republican Party.
1
Not 'go home', but rather 'YOU'RE FIRED!!!!!'
1
Trump works for the Russians, for he has wanted a Trump Tower in Moscow for years, and has needed their financial backing to do so. The man lives lavishly and has been bankrupt at twice and has been bailed out by who know whom: the Russians is my bet.
I wouldn't be surprised if he knew of the Russians playing with the election and did nothing to stop it. Too many people close to Trump have been indicted by Mueller, and the buck stops at their leader. The Mueller investigation will enlighten us to how much this man has been a tool of the Russians. Frankly, I find his behavior with the Russians smacks of treason. I want him out as president as soon as possible: impeachment. The book, "Proof of Collusion," discusses his Russia connection in more depth. It has taken awhile for mainstream media to pick up the pieces.
2
Better than “go home” how about “go to jail”.
4
I agree with Mr. Tomasky but for a somewhat different reason. I suggest there is no great motivation to vote than to cast a vote against someone. Ask the longtime reviled Ms. Clinton about that. I think the motivation to vote Trump out will spur the highest turnout of Democratic voters we have probably ever seen and sweep many more Democrats into office. If you thought the mid-terms had motivation for high Democratic turnout just wait for a presidential election with Trump on the ballot.
2
Trump is not just a threat to our own country, but to other countries as well. The risk is not just to us Americans, but to anyone on the planet who wants climate change addressed or who would prefer a sane American president, one who can be trusted not to start World War III. Impeachment might help keep the country's focus on the reasons why we need a different president -- either in 2020 or sooner.
3
Why wait? Dump Trump asap
2
It's not a parlor game we're playing. In fact, it's not a game at all. If impeachment is warranted, then it has to be brought. Senate Republicans in every state but the reddest will be at risk if they won't act on the, presumably manifest, evidence. Those not at risk because their states are still, even by then, too full of the Trump Kool-Aid, will marginalize themselves and their population even more than they already are. It will not be pretty, and it may not evict Trump. But if we are talking about fulfilling constitutional requirements---rather than winning a football game--then impeachment is probably necessary, and the backlash will have to be addressed head-on. If there are not enough members of Congress, the media, and the electorate willing and able to fight for the truth as long as it takes, then we are already lost. I don't think that is the case, however. I just think impeachment would have to be handled with the same deliberate and scrupulous regard for facts and law as Mueller's investigation.
If it is as bad as we think it is and there is no impeachment, however, then the claim to be a nation of laws goes out the window.
2
I agree with this opinion on waiting until the 2020 election and allowing the voters to decided. This does not mean that Mueller's investigation would be ignored. It means that you do not allow Republicans to hide behind accusations of "liberal bias", "Unfair treatment" and "Trumped up charges". I am tired of the lying and America needs to heal and move on. The best way is not through an impeachment, which is sure to fell, but allowing the information to be weighed by the voters.
1
Go home? Absolutely. But only after 20 or so in Club Fed.
4
Not pursuing impeachment of Trump spits on the Constitution.
It is not possible that the founders imagined that every one of their list of impeachable offenses had to be accomplished like some bizarre scavenger hunt. Or that each category had to be filled with both hidden and plain-sight offences.
What this editorial misses is the education an impeachment provides. If Democrats, assisted by any patriotic or honest (or both) Republican members of the House are diligent in drawing up and documenting the list of impeachable offenses, with ample proof of each, there is a good chance that the citizenry will learn more than they would with another election like the last, where the NYT focused on Hillary's emails and the "horse race".
The Clinton impeachment was perceived to be utterly political, because the underlying offense ("swiping right" while married) is not a crime, not is it a threat to the nation.
This time, the list of offenses will be very long, with much of the evidence in the public domain, and the rest real crimes or malfeasance provided by Congressional and the Mueller investigations. (Assuming the Democrats can avoid complaining about the quality of Trump steaks.)
Politically, Democrats are probably better off if the Senate refuses to convict--creating massive voter revulsion at Republicans. However, removing Trump sooner is also a good thing, and hopefully the sympathy Trump vote would be smaller than the "no wonder Democrats were so upset" vote.
4
What is clearly the most frustrating is that, if the tables were reversed, republicans would already have impeached, and be basking in their heir glory.
4
The ballot box rejection has another perk: Pence goes too.
7
Donald Trump is the President of a shrinking slice of the electorate judged by the 2018 midterm results, not President of the United States. Duplicating midwest trifecta grows more unlikely by the day. His pivot was a downward spiral guaranteed to tune out and turn off more independents voters.
His rants and tent revivals aimed at the same army of converts to Trumpism. His hoax and witch hunt will end unfavorably. Unless he gains a clear unambiguous win in negotiations with China the pain will outweigh the gain. North Korea is a defacto nuclear power. And, economic growth is expected to slow down over the next two years.
He could work constructively to produce comprehensive immigration reform. A lasting accomplishment worthy of praise. He could go pale green, make a downpayment on a schedule of infrastructure needs, or invest real time and effort on solution to national healthcare challenges.
But, he cannot he is trapped by ideology and his promise keepers. Ann, Laura, Rush and Hannity keeping and eye on him, making sure he does not break faith.
2
GREAT idea, tomasky!
Let this fool further destroy America for 2 more years!
4
Trump was a criminal BEFORE he was elected president and has just been himself thus far and it was only matter of sheer minutes after he got in that he had a lot of reasons to be removed from office.
No president in my 59 years has ever been as crooked and ignorant as this man. And no one deserves to be removed more than he.
7
@ClydeMallory
Gotcha! No president in my 76 years has ever been as crooked and ignorant as this man.
Every day he eats food, is protected by bodyguards, and everything else he does at taxpayer expense, is one day too long for a man who sold his soul to Putin to get in the White House.
8
I have my own doubts that it is impossible to remove him either by elections or by the impeachment. There is a possibility that he can stay there by hook or crook. If by elections, he will try to make lots of noise if he loses election and his supporters make the USA a hell. If by impeachment, Mitch won't co-operate. Mr. trump has no respect to law and he can become permanent occupant of the WH, like Putin.
1
@KP Nope. That's when you bring in the military to remove him bodily. No way we let one man of this rock-bottom quality destroy what's left of America at that point.
What makes you think Trump will leave office under any conditions?
If he "loses" the election, he'll claim there was rampant voter fraud, that the results are "fake," and, therefore, invalid. He'll demand an investigation, and suspend the election results until the investigation is complete.
If he's impeached, he'll claim it was a conspiracy concocted by extremist liberals, the "failing" media, and the left-wing elite. He'll refuse to leave office until a thorough investigation is complete.
Trump abides by the rules only when they suit his purposes. Leaving office does not meet that criterion. We're stuck with him for long beyond 2020, regardless of election or impeachment results.
3
Remove Trump by any means possible, even if it takes a military coup. Trump, not Russia, not China, not North Korea, is the greatest threat to our national security.
7
Worst case scenario: Russia and other bad actors could manipulate the 2020 election, too. And then there's gerrymandering (thanks again, Russo-Republicans!). This last election gave us all hope, but as long as Fox News continues to prop up Putin and his puppet, Trump could continue his Reign of Terror into 2014 and beyond...
2
I agree with all you’ve said except the last line. We would not simply be saying go home. In addition, we would be saying “You’re fired.” Now that would (will) be sweet!
1
No, the electorate won't say , Mr. Trump go home. Rather they would echo Trump himself, "Donald, you're fired!"
1
Leaving possible Impeachment aside pending the Mueller Report, the best way to beat Trump is to pick a nominee who can carry PA, MI and WI.
3
Dump Trump quickly; have him deported to Russia. He says he does not work for Russia. That was the answer to the question, "Do you work for Russia?" Donald doesn't work for anyone, in his mind and clearly in his actions. He doesn't work for the American people. Most likely he believes in his heart & soul, if if has them, that Russia works for him. Look how much they have done; funded his buildings in NYC and elsewhere, hacked the American election and spun stories to aid him. They provided him with his political talk points. ASK THE RIGHT QUESTIONS to GET THE ANSWERS YOU SEEK. When the reporter asked Putin if he wanted Trump to win in 2016. Putin said yes. Ask Donald if Russia works for him and see if he can answer. All bets are off on getting any truthful reply.
The ballot box has more historical legitimacy?
You mean that same ballot box that gave the presidency to the guy who got 3 million fewer votes?
And did roughly the same thing just 16 years earlier?
Think again.
3
I would rather hear the Law say to Donald Trump: "Go directly to JAIL, do not pass go, and do not steal anymore money".
2
If Mueller's report doesn't come out soon, we will have to wait for the next election to get him out. But, secretly, I am hoping to see him in a grey and white striped prison suit soon....
2
Voting Trump out is the path of least resistance. Meanwhile, citizens should begin confronting the steady stream of misinformation and right wing propaganda sloshing about on our nation's airwaves and on social media.
Cleaning up the narrative is a worthy objective and it starts with civil disobedience when absolutely necessary.
I would enjoy picketing and leading a Fox boycott. It would be therapeutic.
I would also enjoy seeing Democratic office holders telling the liars in the Trump administration and in Congress to clean up their act or face the legal consequences associated with misleading the nation into believing that Trump is an innocent victim of the Democratic Party.
Trump must be indicted and that will go a long way toward shutting down the right wing lies about Democrats that are streaming 24/7 from Russian Internet connections and Steve Bannon's basement trolls in DC.
2
Au contraire. The House should go ahead and subpoena Bob Mueller's office for what he has found thus far and vote for Articles of Impeachment NOW. Put the onus on the Senate to vote for conviction. If the majority in the Senate want to make it political, they can take it into the 2020 election. Good luck with that; even in middle America.
There was a reason our founding fathers were specific regarding treason by a President. Years from now, when an American is called a traitor, they won't be using the name of Benedict Arnold any longer.
3
No. Two more years of this authoritarian criminal con man will break our country. We can't wait.
The only thing that truly scares me is the Democrats’ response to Trump’s re-election in 2020. If they’re this crazy now, who knows what they’ll do.
2
@Dr. M LOL! Good one!
Destroying the Republican Party is an ill itself. Granted, many of its current adherents and office holders are despicable, but the Democrats need some check on their excesses too. I agree that all branches of the government need to fulfill their Constitutional duties, and right now the Legislative branch has been remiss in that regard. The House might change, but if grounds are there for impeachment they must put politics aside and impeach, or they are no less culpable for this mess than the previous version of the House and the current Senate.
2
Aside from impeachment, doesn't the Constitution also provide us with the 25th amendment to remove this unfit and traitorous "president"*?
It is now very clear that Donald Trump is a threat to the security of the United States. His mental and emotional problems combined with his ignorance and incompetence can no longer be ignored. We can't afford to wait until the next election. And I don't agree that there would be a negative backlash if an impeachment attempt failed. Trump's negative poll ratings are climbing quickly and the electorate spoke emphatically in the midterms, establishing a record for the number of Republicans unseated in the people's house.
Another thing, impeachment shouldn't be considered or
dismissed because of political considerations. The welfare of the country supersedes that concern.
2
He needs to be crippled as soon as possible. Impeachment is the way to do it. It will keep the damage to a minimum. We cannot let run wild for even another week. He is an abomination and needs to corralled as soon as possible. it doesn;t matter if the lemmings in the Senate acquit him, he needs to be handcuffed..
I think it is folly to say "wait." Either the guy is fit for office or he isn't. If he isn't, and we "wait," then what does that say about how much we care about the office, or we the people? What damage can be done by an unfit leader? Impeachment, when necessary, ain't pretty, easy, or fun. But neither is reaping what we sow by allowing a criminal or mentally ill or what have you to run this Great Experiment into the ash heap of history.
1
The thought of Trump not being forsibly removed and prosecuted and thus enjoying the tax payer funded benefits of being a one time US President is too awful to contemplate.
If Trump is, has been, and will be nothing but a hand-puppet of Putin, and thus the greatest traitor in the history of the Western World, how can we afford to give him two more years to continue to wreck America at Putin's bidding? Lucky for us Trump's such an ignoramus, isn't it? What if he were an intelligent traitor? What if he were Kim Philby in the Oval Office?
the logic is watertight. but an important factor is left out: what will be the cost for democracy, the U.S. and the non-white or non-rich, of 2 more years of trumpism? what can an impeachable president in process actually do? it's not only a question of dumping him, but stopping him as soon as possible.
The quickest way is the best way.
1
Before the shutdown, the Senate passed a clean bill and expected it to be signed. THEN, Limbaugh and Coulter squared-up against Trump with their doomsday predictions. No doubt that Trump discussed "NOT signing it" with Hannity.
Going back to 2 August 2018, Trump talked about this shutdown fight at a Pennsylvania rally:
"You know who thinks (shutdown) should be before (election)? Rush Limbaugh thinks it should be before," Trump said. "You know who else? Sean Hannity. A lot of 'em."
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2018/08/02/politics/donald-trump-shutdown/index.html
Now, in Day 24, Trump walked away from HIS CLAIMED SOLUTION (emergency powers), because reopening government was "so simple".
If these lackeys who call themselves Republican Senators can't cross party lines to again pass a clean bill and immediately thereafter bring more votes for an override AND OPEN GOVERNMENT, then talk of impeachment is PREMATURE.
Do your job and vote a clean bill, Senate Republicans.
1
Impeachment is not only a political course of action. Trump is an immoral and clearly criminal president (as he was a candidate, but that's water over the bridge...), and it is the moral thing to do by impeaching him and removing him from office. If the process fails in the end, at least the moral action was taken. Voters would then choose between morality and immorality in 2020. If the latter wins, so be it. It was a good run, America.
2
Why can't we just put him in jail with the rest of his friends. We know his business model is based on fraud so why isn't he behind bars already?
Yes. Repudiate him thoroughly via the ballot box, then prosecute him aggressively.
His "Base" is so blindly calcified in their support, this is the best path to have them let go of their allegiance.
3
It is a difficult situation, for which there is no constitutional, legal, or electoral answer, and the difficulty is just this: regardless of whether he is a criminal, traitor, or malfeasant, Mr. Trump is, beyond any reasonable doubt, a fool. We, and I mean all of us, by compliance, negligence, or inadvertence, have given this high office to a fool, and there is no easy way out. Somehow, someway, we must all acknowledge what we have done, and try to find ways to ensure that it does not happen again.
1
If Trump and Pence are both appropriately worthy of impeachment, we’ll never see it happen in a Republican Senate. Then Nancy Pelosi would become President.
"...when perhaps a record number of voters will cast their ballots and a decisive majority will say to Mr. Trump: Go home." Go home? Really? Go to jail. Go directly to jail. Do not pass GO. Do not collect $200. Never come back.
Wait ? for what ? more time to have a major catastrophe , national disaster or international crisis with this leader at the helm?
We must be prudent, deliberate, determined, focused, and prepared to make the proper constitutional actions to save ourselves.....now
We cannot say what should be done until the Mueller report comes out. I personally think that anything less than a smoking gun showing clear quid-pro-quo between Trump and the Russians should not lead to impeachment. Besides, we have Mike Pence waiting in the wings and I would rather have the buffoon we know than the religious nut case we don't. I am confident that if the Democrats field a halfway decent candidate that Trump will be defeated in 2020, mostly as a result of his own actions.
1
He has become too great a risk to allow to persist.
I would prefer to see Trump left in office, but hamstrung by numerous House investigations, until 2020 for a different reason. Mike Pence, unlike Trump, is a seasoned and capable politician with a clear agenda: to try to convert our democracy into a Christian theocracy. I find the thought of a President Pence far more concerning than Donald Trump, buffoon.
As an additional point, it’s my understanding that Nixon chose to resign, not just because of being impeached, but because he was advised that there were sufficient votes in the Senate to convict him.
The author lays out a scenario in which it is confirmed that Trump has committed high crimes and then he suggests that the House should not impeach because it's "highly unlikely" the Senate would convict.
First of all, why should the assumed dereliction of duty of the Senate stop the House from fulfilling its duty? And why exactly would the Senate turn a blind eye to treason?
If we're at that point, chuck in the towel.
I would prefer a peaceful transfer of power to new president via a landslide victory for Trump's opponent. That he is a traitor, an obstructor of justice, and an immoral man I haven't much doubt, but these charges will be hard to prove. Let the power of the ballot box, which the Republican Party has done so much to try to weaken and destroy, take its course. Let everyone who can possibly vote do so in this crucial election!
1
The carnage visited on the USA by Trump and the GOP in the last two years should scare the daylights out of the American people. Given two more years it will accelerate beyond control. How much more do you need to see and hear to understand that there is a Russian Asset in the WH and it is the President.
1
Impeachment is a distraction favoring Trump. He's the tempting, low hanging, rotting fruit. If House democrats are smart, they'll wait for Mueller's term paper and let their committees handle Trump while the full house buries the Republican Senate in pro-middle class legislation. The accumulated weight of Trump's illegal acts will take care of him! Meanwhile, do what we elected you to do!
1
Article 25. The staggering evidence is the petition signed by over 30,000 mental health professionals attesting to his mental incompetence. Add that to the countless solid circumstantial evidence over the past two years - and circumstantial evidence is as genuine as direct evidence - and the FBI's concern that he is undermining our country...what else is needed? But to leave him in office for two more years is madness, given all this.
A control freak like Trump needs to create his own dramatic exit. How about a family vacation to Dubai, U.A.E. (which doesn’t extradite)! He can tweet his resignation from one of most glamorous cities in the world.
Trump probably needs to be impeached. It sure looks like Trump-Russia was a real thing, and he undeniably is behaving like an asset of Russian intelligence and security services.
Stop strategizing & let due process proceed unimpeded. Tired of letting Presidents off the hook of due process. NO PARDONS.
Best way? Let the Mueller Investigation continue to its end. The rest will fall in place. Voila!
With impeachment and pardons appears America is up the creek without a paddle when seeking justice regarding Trump.
The use of the pronoun 'we' in the opening sentence, even in an opinion piece, is disturbing evidence of how far and how much objective journalism has been eroded by two years of Trump.
1
If the President has committed high crimes and misdemeanors, he should be impeached and removed from office, indicted, and convicted of whatever crimes he has committed. If he (and his family) are not punished for their breathless arrogance in using the Office of the Presidency for their own personal gain, what is to stop the next Russian (or any other country's) puppet from doing the same. Waiting to vote him out, simply will not deter anyone else from doing this in the future.
Trump has to go NOW!
There is much more reporting lately of the harm this misanthrope is doing to our country around the world and at home. If he and his appointees were just incompetent it maybe wouldn't be so bad, but they all are trying to dismantle our democracy and our government to what end I do not know.
Why are we shackling ourselves to impeachment? Impeachment is for presidents in office: Trump may have committed crimes as a private citizen. Unless we are accepting that we elect kings then a president is a citizen. If not, please let me know so I can start the revolution to overthrow our king.
So, in order to be "practical" we're supposed to send a clear message to future generations that it's OK to: steal elections, collude with foreign powers, violate almost every aspect of the Constitution, use the Presidency to make you and your family filthy rich, lie constantly, destroy our standing in the world, stand with brutal dictators over our proven allies, do everything an ex-KGB Russian president tells you to do, violate every single politcal norm and standard for personal gain or aggrandizement, and commit dozens and dozens and dozens of felonies - IT'S ALL OK! Because standing up against that kind of thing is just something that Americans don't, and shouldn't, do. So, go ahead - and do it all over again!!!
Great message.
It's makes about as much sense as saying, "Let's let this climate change denial thing just play itself out. We can always fix things later on."
2
Mr. Tomasky, you left out one thing. If Trump is impeached, then Mike Pence becomes president and anyone who follows Trump is going to look like the coming of the Messiah. Or at least have some sympathy votes in 2020.
JD
Perhaps he will have a "break in processes", leading to his own demise. Perp walk in a straight jacket, perhaps, to combine both options as per the law catching up with him.
As vile a creator as I find Trump to be I'm all for slow walking him up to the election and being done with him and his enablers. As the Republicans cling to him and support him his stink will stick to them more deeply. The best we can do for now is keep Donald and his lackeys from destroying the country completely. There is no point in Impeaching him if he will not be convicted.
1
As to Trump's tenure in the presidency, I'm betting that he will leave office voluntarily NOT AT ALL...I imagine that he'll find some way to suspend the 2020 election due to a "national emergency," and continue as "president" indefinitely... Even if there is an election - and it doesn't go his way, he'll cry FOUL...[the congress and courts will do nothing]... Thus, America's slide into insanity will accelerate...and Bob's your uncle... Take Care!
1
Its the height of hypocrisy that the "forgetting" about the Second Holocaust run by Marxists, the many times as many humans killed by the Soviets and Chinese (than the Nazis), the Left and their political cousins the democratic party are now trying to make Russia into the embodiment of evil! When they were perfectly willing to take Soviet cash for "peace" during the Cold War to do treasonous bombings and violent demonstrations, while the Left tilted media excused all that by proclaiming that the antidote/balance for foreign propaganda was an entirely free press where fake news and 'foreign interference' could be exposed. That Russia, or any other country, favored Trump to win in 2016 because he had done business in Russia and so had Russian contacts and visitors no more proves that he is guilty of treason than Hillary is guilty of treason for 'colluding' with China by for chanting 'open borders' to Wall Streeters (real criminals who have outsourced 8 million US jobs to China), and her being part of the gov establishment that for decades allowed China, our self declared moral enemy, to steal trillions in US intellectual property and via copy right infringements, kill 10's of thousands of Americans with fentanyl (that their police state could easily stop) and poison our lands with invasive species and pandemic disease in their lousy goods that the rest of our obsessed with open borders globalism establishment 1% continues to allow into our nation.
1
If we wait, will there be an election in 2020? What about if the government shutdown continues until then? Will the military get any new weapons it cannot pay for? Will social security checks have stopped? Will Trump have declared martial law?
While I agree that a peaceful transition of power back to a democratic government is preferred, it's been pretty clear that any given day, Trump's team is dismantling the USA, brick by brick. What will be left if we wait?
Consider what we have lost so far. Two Trump appointees on the Supreme court to sway the final decisions on actions of an imperial president. (Could he pardon himself and get away with treason or shooting someone on 5th Avenue?)
We no longer have a Sec. of Defense who was not from a Defense contractor. Nearly all agency heads now have closer ties to the business their agency regulates than interest in their agency's legislative obligations. We withdrew from the TPP, The Paris Climate deal, NAFTA, and the Iran deal. Germany's Merkel says we are not to be relied upon any more. We are pulling troops out of Syria that protected the Kurds in dealing with ISIS. We have played footsie with North Korea as perhaps a prelude to removing US troops from guarding the border. We have put many journalist lives at great risk for reporting on internationally important corruption or wars. We don't really have a State department now. Perhaps that's the tip of the iceberg.
I don't know. What happens if we wait until November 2020?
There is another advantage in having Trump lose the election, presumably to a Democrat. A Democrat would be less likely to pardon Trump and thus he could be liable, for the first time in his life, for his misdeeds.
3
Voting Trump out in 2020 is not good enough. If the man has violated any laws he must be prosecuted just as if you or I broke the law. Otherwise, it shows that there is no rule of law in the USA for those elected too high positions. Not what the founders intended. Plus, it will lead to even more heinous crimes...such is the pattern since Nixon was pardoned. Then, we got Reagan selling arms illegally to Iran. Reagan went unpunished. Then, we get Bush invading Iraq under false pretenses..and no punishment. The crimes keep getting worse. We need a reset. If Trump is guilty of a crime he should be punished just as you or I would be!
3
This op-ed completely ignores the problem of gerrymandering which impeded a fair election in 2016 and may well do so again and undermine any effort to vote Trump out of office.
I find this "case for not impeaching Trump" to be utterly unconvincing. He can do way too much damage in the time between now and the 2020 elections, including ginning up a war with Iran that would serve two very harmful purposes: a) deflecting attention from his criminality, and b) satisfying the imbecilic drive to override all things Obama (who, after all, achieved a worthy status quo with Iran) and also satisfying the bellicosity of Bolton. What we need is much less media coverage of Trump's tweets and a continuation of the important work of Mueller and the Southern District of New York. We also need some Republican senators to show some patriotism and integrity and override Mitch McConnell. Directly or indirectly, he is just as likely to be on the take as Trump.
2
The Democratic Party needs to dump their elderly , White , Rich career politicians and choose young energetic leaders like AOC if they hope to connect with voters. We need fresh blood and new ideas , not more old has-beens like Biden, Warren and Sanders. Their time has come and gone long ago.
2
So... the republicans keep their rich white voters to fund their campaigns, and dems don’t? Plus , most rich white dems are very progressive.
This piece is very political and not so constitutional. We should think about this as a way to support one party. If Trump committed a high crime, then he should be impeached. This is especially true if that crime pertained to the 2016 election. The other value to impeachment is "sending a message" to anyone who considers cheating through an election. No person or party should be permitted to consider the calculus of the reward where "we get at least four years in power, we are the underdogs, so why not cheat" versus the risk (nearly none if you forego impeachment or jail). We cannot have a compromised president either.
And by the same token, if he committed crimes, he deserves real jail time for the same reason. There is no excuse for stealing an election, especially in this nation.
Conversely, if we don't like someone's policies, or they embarrass themselves and our nation, we should vote them out. That is easy and the solution in normal times.
I personally think Trump did commit horrendous election crimes and conspired with Putin to do so. If proven, he must be impeached and jailed.
The one thing that could do long term damage to the Republican party would be to connect as many current and former Republicans to the criminal, conspiracy, and treasonous behaviors of the Trump/Pence administration. There may be hundreds of enablers of Trump throughout elected and appointed government. A thorough, no rock left unturned "impeachment" investigation that were to reveal, "What did they know, and when did they know it?" could show America how deeply corrupt and dangerous the party is, and why they should be removed from office and imprisoned.
For example, if it can be shown that Mitch McConnell had known of any of Trump's wrong doing but did nothing to protect America, have him be charged, convicted, and removed from office.
Charge, convict, evict, repeat.
No rejection of trump in 2020 … no matter how overwhelming ... could overcome the embarrassment of his election to the presidency in 2016.
Without even any 'reckoning' of the embarrassments 'visited' upon us during his term-in-office to date (or the additional embarrassments we are sure to suffer before, by whatever 'means,' we are rid of him), nothing will ever be more embarrassing (or frightening) than the present, every-day waking to the reality that this nightmare of a headline in
the mind of one’s worst night of sleep was ‘real’:
Donald Trump Is The President of The United States of America.
2
Hopefully to be criminally charged the minute he leaves office. That would be my fantasy perp walk. God help us all.
If the House & Senate behave as the authors of the Constitution intended, then Mr. Trump will be impeached & removed from office before the end of this month.
Under the Constitution, the impeachment and removal process is an important check on presidential exercise of power. Mr. Trump offers ample reasons, evidence, and even repeated public demonstrations of High Crimes and Misdemeanors. The Congress must act, and now is the time.
So, who is to say that he doesn't rig the elections in 2020 with help from the Russians and wins again?
4
The issue is not whether the Senate would remove him. The Senate will do what it does, irresponsible or not, but will only have to decide this if the House impeaches him. As others have said, if he is an agent of the Russians (innocent or otherwise, and the latter is really preposterous) , he must be impeached. Yes, politically it would be better to wait but as a matter of national security I do not think we can afford to wait. What if, for instance, Russia invaded a NATO country?
" I come down on the side of the ballot box, and firmly so, because it has more historical authority and legitimacy..."
Normally I'd agree, but assuming that the allegations surround Trump's crimes turn out to be true, then the legitimacy of the 2016 election vanishes. Moreover, an impeachment would expose his crimes and perhaps those of his party to the world.
I am already an older person, and I feel like I have aged double in the last two years. Does anyone believe that we can endure as a nation until January of 2021?
7
Mueller's probe or other evidence may make impeachment a viable alternative if it sways enough Republicans. Unless that happens, I agree that long-term outcomes would best be served by waiting for the 2020 election. For many friends who are Trump supporters, evidence to date in complex legal cases doesn't seem compelling. They only seem to become more entrenched in their belief that media and liberals are out to destroy this presidency. A resounding electoral defeat wouldn't convince everyone, but in my opinion it would be more understandable and straightforward than another legal process that would be even more complex.
1
If Trump is impeached and removed from office, do the tax payers have to pay for security detail for him and his family, or pensions post impeachment ?
If Trump loses the 2020 election, we're stuck footing the bill for all that ex-Presidents are entitled too. I find this an appalling thought, having to pay someone that prides himself on not paying taxes, and giving back to society. Instead, just greedily taking as much money as possible because he feels entitled.
6
As long as the economy performs reasonably well, and as long as Trump's approval rating is in the 40% range there is little point in impeachment proceedings.
Nixon was vulnerable in 1974 because the recession put Americans into a bad mood. If the economy had been performing well back then he probably would have survived Watergate.
1
Well we shouldn’t have to wait long then. The economy is already showing the effect of this incompetent administration. They rode on Obama’s coattails as long as they could.
Well ... there's always the possibility that God will intervene on behalf of humanity ...
9
Dream on, Trump will be re-elected.
1
@M
I guess you're part of the 'some people all of the time' circle.
1
In what fantasy world? The one where Russia completely controls our election process?
Trade Trump for Pence? No thanks!
Any plan for removing Trump from office must also ensure his removal leaves Pence with little time before the next election. Otherwise Pence could have time to establish himself and potentially win in 2020.
If Mr. Trump is found to have been compromised by the Russians and is an active "asset" or Russian intelligence, there is no question that he must be removed from office and face legal consequences -- as should any person who knowingly shielded him from these charges.
Yeah, sure, keeping Trump as a rock hanging around the neck of the Republican Party sounds like a good move for Democrats, but the damage that could result by having a crypto-spy remain at the head of our government is too great.
Americans must act to protect our sovereignty and safety -- if Trump is a spy, he's got to go.
3
checks and balances don’t work if every lever of power refuses to do it’s job because of how another will do theirs. The house has a duty to impeach, they should do so and force each senator to go on record with their vote and pay the electoral price either way. If the president is guilty of high crimes and misdemeanors (and he clearly is), to not impeach is dereliction of duty and of course sets an insane standard of what a Republican president can get away with.
2
Debating how Trump leaves office is all well and good, I don't necessarily disagree with the logic. But there are a number of assumptions baked into this conclusions, the principal of which is that Trump's continued existence in his current office is not doing even greater and longer lasting damage to our country the longer he remains. And that is setting aside the real danger that he poses to the world -- for example, the concern that he could precipitate or fail to take the steps necessary to prevent a nuclear war. Ultimately, I believe impeachment is the route to go if the Mueller investigation shows what many of us expect it to. Anything less is an abdication of responsibility. And if the investigation shows that he has violated the law, he should be prosecuted for that.
3
Mr. Tomasky does readers and our country a disservice by framing his column around the question What’s the best tactic for political opponents of Trump?
The proper question is What is required of Congress to protect and defend the Constitution?
During the Watergate era, our country was well served by a number of Republican leaders in Congress who clearly understood their Constitutional duty. They rose above narrow partisanship and short-term political calculus to join Democrats in ridding the country of a Republican president, once evidence showed overwhelmingly that Nixon had obstructed justice.
We must never give up holding members of Congress to the high standards the Constitution requires, no matter how abysmally far they are currently falling short.
6
I'm with Pelosi and the Democratic leadership on this. Let's see what's in the Mueller report and then decide what to do.
3
If he's impeached, do we still have to pay his retirement salary? If not, then I'm all for impeachment.
Either way it happens, I highly doubt his removal will be a peaceful transition of power. Whether by impeachment, the 2020 elections, or even the 2024 term limit, Trump will probably be leaving the White House in handcuffs.
What's the endgame here, anyway? Everyone's so caught up in the fact that he's president now, but what happens when he's not? He obviously can't be trusted with US secrets. He'll sell them to the highest bidder first chance.
3
I completely disagree that we should wait until 2020. This WH is a continuous disaster and will get worst with time. The sooner he is ousted the better. Think of what he can damage with more supreme court nominees (don't need House), lower court assignments, health care, international relations, social unrest, education, environment, defense and so much more. He is so slippery we may need to wait until 2020 but let's not wait.
1
The best way is to actually do what our country needs, and forget politics. No infrastructure bills, no immigration bills, nothing that our country needs comes from politics.
But a decisive number of voters didn't vote for Trump in the first place. He is in there based on Electoral College magic by a margin of less than 80K votes... amply assisted by an adversarial foreign power. The Democrats should impeach him, even if the Republican rump remains doggedly loyal. And the Democrats should pursue him in 2020 if impeachment doesn't yield removal. In fact, the Democrats should continue impeachment proceedings again, and again just to make a point, like the Republicans did on the Obamacare issue. Only the Democratic position would be far more noble.
1
Let's say we knew for certain our 2016 Presidential election was compromised by Russian hackers. Let's say we knew for certain polling data was given by Trump's advisers to Kremlin operatives. Let's say we know thousands of polling places use computers with Windows 95 as operating systems. Why on Earth would the 2020 election results be more legitimate than the 2016 one? Impeach immediately.
2
I have a question and a comment:
If Mueller's finding include one of treason, should we still wait for the election?
If we wait for the election there is an added benefit not mentioned. Trump can then be tried in a court of law and punished if found guilty. If he were to leave before hand there would undoubtedly be a pardon involved.
1
What if the "collusion" is a diversionary tactic to hide Russian penetration of voting machines? If I were doing it, I'd have several Trojans, at least two intended to be caught. I could write a routine that would reside in volatile memory, change every 50th vote (a 4% change), and delete itself. I wondered how to detect such a thing. COMPARE WRITTEN AND COMPUTED BALLOTS. (Are written ballots routinely destroyed? I don't know, and not all machines have written backups.) If the written ballots were illegally destroyed, use Mueller tactics on the lower level operatives to get to the higher ups (Diebold).
If it is proved that the election was stolen, vacate all of trumps appointments and make him pay all expenses of his occupancy. Then swear in Hillary.
At any rate, pursue vote tampering.
4
There are days when I wonder whether we end up with a military or Praetorian Guard action to remove Trump. And the frightening part is that may be the best alternative.
3
@Cfiverson Greetings! I'm thinking Trump won't go at all...in peace, that is...and who would make up the Praetorian Guard? The senate won't be involved, and the courts will wax impotent... Take Care!
Well, if Trump committed illegal acts he needs to be impeached. Of course, the House can bring impeachment for things such as unbecoming behavior and lying, such as it did with Clinton. The GOP would surely use impeachment as evidence against the Democrats, but the GOP national news, Fox, uses everything it can against Democrats. That will not change, impeachment or not.
The question, as many commentators have made clear, is whether the US can survive two more years of Trump and if Trump is guaranteed to lose in 2020. We don't know that answer.
The third problem is whether impeachment would actually pass the Senate. As of right now, some GOP Senators are turning on Trump, but it is unlikely the votes are there to impeach, so why go through the process and give the GOP more ammo to assault Dems?
The problem with democracy is one side is a mob of fascists the other group is a coterie of cowards. real democracy requires courage of principle not modulating conservative moderation in the name of establishment status quo. That status ended with ruling class obliteration of the middle class.
For crying out loud what more damage do you want to
allow this crook/traitor to do?
He’s totally out of control, lies as he breathes and cares
more for Putin than for the people who he’s supposed to represent.
Why should he be allowed to stay is the question you should be
asking. He’s incompetent, dangerous and greedy, lining his pockets
shutting down government, daily disgracing the USA to the world.
Get him out and deal with the consequences of his mess!
3
Best way cut the guy loose? If the investigation's findings deserve impeachment, then start impeachment hearings. Not a sure fire way to get rid of him, but so what. If congress doesn't eve pursue impeachment the message is plain and simple: the president is above the law. That's not what we're led to believe living in the so-called greatest country in the world. Impeachment hearings will send a critical message, the president is NOT above the law. No one is. Republicans who vote against impeachment can face their reckoning come next election day. Voting the bum Trump out is the fail safe measure but should not be the first way to punish him.
1
The problem is not only Trump's possible collusion with the Russians. It is also the real damage that he is causing now. China, Russia, Turkey are all able to advance their interests dramatically because of Trump's actions now. These will ultimately work against the interests of the U.S. and its allies. (Even though Trump quietly downgraded the diplomatic status of the EU, they are still our allies). Do I believe that Trump is working with Russia, in some way, yes. But it doesn't matter. Trump is betraying American interests as surely as if he were committing treason.
In addition, there are domestic effects: the environmental legislation, race & ethnic relations in the United States, respect for the rule of law and our political institutions, the sanctity of our voting process, respect for public service, and recognition of facts over rumours and allegations. These are more readily repaired by good post-Trump policies & legislation.
A lot of damage can happen over two years. As the insurance commercial states, we have encountered mayhem and let it in the door, where it is causing chaos in our house.
We have to get this jokester out of this highest office in our land and return to providing some standard for international democracy. We were never perfect in this role, but now that Trump has replaced clear thinking with nonsense, the effects domestically & internationally are horrifying. Get him out now!
However,
6
The author's opinion would be sound for just about any other President. However, the particular one is quite likely to be a clear and present danger to our country and our democratic ideals. It is very probable that he is working in conjunction with Russia against our best interests. If Mueller brings this to light, then the only course of action is to impeach and incarcerate Trump. If he has worked against us, he must be immediately removed for the safety of the nation.
5
It is likely that several ongoing investigations will reveal numerous ethical and legal violations. In that case, impeachment should follow. Little has been said about the need to force all Senators to vote yea or nay. Each congressman should go on record for eternity.
3
One significant benefit of initiating impeachment ASAP is to assure our allies around the world, wavering though they might be, that we recognize Trump's recklessness abroad as well as at home and to hang in there with U.S., at least through the 2020 elections if Senate were to refuse to convict.
3
Depend on the voters? They have already shown there hand, & in the words of P.T. Barnum, "there is a--------born every moment."
1
@Ken: The people P. T. Barnum exploited didn't take the whole rest of the country down with their own naivete.
Follow the truth and the facts period. If he has committed high crimes and or misdemeanors, there is a duty to impeach. It seems obvious to me that he has, but go ahead and wait for Mueller, and/or hold committees to investigate. But waiting for 2020 would be unconscionable and a crime in itself if the facts demonstrate he should be impeached and he is not for political reasons.
2
It's important that this President* be impeached. It can be done late enough in his term such that the Senate won't vote on it, which I doubt they would, anyway. But we need his impeachment on record.
4
The Democratic nominee won the 2016 general election by millions of votes, a decisive majority of U.S. citizens. The electoral college system put the loser in office. We do not live in a true democracy and cannot trust what will happen by waiting for the 2020 election.
9
I don't think Democracy can survive two more years of the persistent lying and gaslighting this President spirts out of his mouth and his twitter account. We are heading towards an autocracy and every day Trump tests our resolve to right the ship. If the country was faced with a true crisis (economic, civil unrest, foreign aggression..) how on earth can we trust our government to do the right thing? The adults in the room are all gone now and what's left is a bunch of sycophants' that wouldn't qualify to manage a fast food restaurant, let alone advise and direct policy. Whatever happens its going to take a monumental effort for the next President to fix all the damage caused by this Administration and the GOP lap dogs that enabled it.
1
This isn't the guy you impeach - to big of a waste of time. This is the guy you buy-out. Its cheaper and quicker. Same thing you'd do with a bad hire. Cut an immunity deal, cover his out-of -pocket legal expenses and allow him a plausible cover story and farewell and lets move on quickly before more damage is done.
@Bernie Dubinsky: The US has a whole subculture of this kind of extortionist. In the private sector, one can usually avoid them. Trump is different as president, he's now an inescapable public travesty.
give him a bilion in unmarked bills, a lifetime exemption from his property taxes, immunity, and a doctor's note attesting his bone spurs make it impossible for him to continue to serve, much as he would be honored, then pack him off to Mar-a-Lago in a wheelchair covered with a laprobe like Citizen Kane. stipulate he must never come within half a mile of a microphone or video camera for the rest of his life. throw in a freightcar full of Grecian Formula and call it a done deal. cheap at the price.
This is an addendum to my original post. I wanted to be crystal clear about my position: Once Trump is a private citizen again, the man must and will answer for his crimes. Robert Mueller's probe is already the largest federal criminal investigation in American history, crossing decades and continents, including 400 people and millions of pages of financial documents. The fallout from this generationally significant scandal will persist well into the next Administration and beyond. Any pardon for Trump would be a gross and unspeakable miscarriage of justice. It is totally out of the question.
1
How gangrenous must a leg be before you amputate and how long do you wait? True: the longer Trump stays around, the more damage will be done to the Republican party. But, the more damage will be done to the Country.
The biggest question is whether the Republican party has become so rotten to the core that - no matter what comes of current legal actions and the Mueller investigation - enough Republicans would vote for impeachment. "Don't confuse me with the facts" might even be the refrain of the Republican party again.
3
It's also disturbing that as a 'former President' the American citizens will be 'taking care' of this individual for 10 years after his "retirement" and he will be collecting about $200,000 as a pension PLUS other benefits and paying for secret service protection and trips back & forth from NY to Florida.
1
This author has a great deal more confidence in the integrity of US elections than I do. Rampant, unchecked election fraud, not voter fraud but, election fraud make mincemeat out of our ability to fairly vote. Dems need to get on this and let the GOP stand naked saying they won’t fix it
I believe there were 10 incumbent presidents who lost: the 2 Adamses (father and son), van Buren, Cleveland, B. Harrison, Taft, Hoover, Ford, Carter and G. H. W. Bush.
I would think that failing to keep his oath of office (which is what shutting down his government amounted to) would be enough to impeach an official. But apparently not.
1
What of the 25th amendment?
3
Another concern I have about impeachment or resignation is that Trump and his family will negotiate a get-out-of-jail-free card. I want this man and his family to go down hard - no deals - and be prosecuted for the multiple criminal acts he is likely guilty of from money-laundering to treason.
2
Trump is thin-skinned. Just keep up the criticism and he'll eventually fold.
1
Agreed.
First, impeachment proceedings will only shore up Trump's support system.
Second, a pleasant side effect of this Trump nonsense has been to see the system working. Slowly, deliberately, but -- at least it appears -- effectively. The political process should be no different, and Americans deserve an opportunity to vote their way out of this.
Third, the man needs to understand that he was rejected by choice, not forced out through an extraordinary (but of course justified) mechanism.
The risk of trump getting re-elected is too great. You think 4 years is bad, 8 would be certain disaster. If he were re-elected he would have a greater mandate, and it would be impossible to impeach him during his second term.
My worst fear about (and objection to) 'impeachment' is called 'MIKE PENCE', the Vice President of the United States of America, the second-highest officer in the executive branch of the U.S. federal government, after the President of the United States, and ranking first in the presidential line of succession - a fate worse than death, a continuation of the existing infamy, the status quo inferno.
Defeat in the 2020 presidential election is, in truth, the only viable solution and certain death knell to GOP dominance in the USA – no GOP succession. no pardoning of 'crimes and misdemeanors', no bailout for Thump!
5
Why is it necessary to choose between those two options? Why not full speed ahead on both? If the Senate votes against Trump’s removal from office, that will be one more strong argument against reelection of the Senators who vote against removal, whether they are running in 2020, 2022, or 2024.
1
It's also worth considering that he's 72 and, by all accounts, has a very unhealthy lifestyle. Debilitating illness, whether real or faked, has to be taken into account.
1
I think he already has a debilitating illness. That's why his children follow him everywhere.
I am just trying to field test and prove the concept how to change the world in the future – not by waging the endless wars and occupying the foreign countries but simply by being smarter, trying to correctly understand the source of the problems and implementing the best solutions.
Oh for goodness sakes. Since the days of Benedict Arnold, we have loathed those in high positions who serve our enemies.
Part of the USA standing up to Putin is for us to follow the judicial mechanisms for investigating Trump, then for letting him face what Lady Justice doles out to him.
I was in Valparaiso, Chile shortly after Pinochet was voted out of office. What impressed me most about the home of Chile’s Supreme Court is that the statue of Lady Justice showed her not just blindfolded, but also clamping the scales of justice closed in her fist. What a visual metaphor for a police state!
In our nation, the scales of justice must not be clamped closed, allowing legal escape for Donald Trump. He must have his deeds fully weighed by a functioning judicial system.
That must be part of his legacy, and a big part of what will someday be in the Donald Trump Presidential Library.
3
Seriously? I think not. This will provide him 2 more years to solidify control of the government with his partner in crime, the Republican party. We will also see that the next election will be paid for by Kremlin money for Republicans as it was for the last. Please read this detailed reporting and tell me after that you doubt that the Russians have not positioned themselves as owning by contributions, these leaders coffers/PAC's thanks to our SCOTUS and Citizens United. Trump and Mitch and many other repubs should be forced to explain their willingness to accept money from the Kremlin. Bush the younger refused. They did not seem to have the same integrity and it has now put them in a tight spot. This needs to be hammered home by the press. It relates to the current state of affairs and explains a lot of Mitch and his crew's behaviors.
1
@JDH
My apologies. Link to referenced article:
https://www.dallasnews.com/opinion/commentary/2017/12/15/putins-proxies-helped-funnel-millions-gop-campaigns
If the news is as this column predicts, Trump will bail and choose not to run, claiming the system is rigged, allowing him to escape any responsibility, and of course, blaming others.
The problem with waiting Trump out until the 2020 election is the damage he will continue to inflict on the Country in the next 2 years . You do not seem to realize that this is an emergency . In second place the important part is not the damage he does to the GOP but the damage he does to the Country as a whole . I do not want the destruction of the GOP but the survival of our democracy .
3
Impeach and get president Pence. Vote and get a new Senate and new president/vice president -- and most likely all Democratic.
The House can stymie most of what Trump wants to do in the remaining two years. We just have to hold our noses and organize for 2020.
3
@Harry: Is Pence really any cleaner than Spiro Agnew was? Before Nixon was disgraced out of office, VP Agnew was removed and replaced with then Speaker of the House Gerald Ford, who then succeeded Nixon.
1
@Steve Bolger That sort of was my intent with this remark. Impeach Trump and get an extreme Christian fundamentalist with unknown skeletons in his closet. Is he worse than Trump? Are apples better than oranges?
You're thinking about this wrong.
Impeachment is simply ONE of the tools in the bag.
Think of it as a "marketing opportunity" or awareness building.
Make him small and little. Call out his kids on their misdeeds. Air every piece of dirty laundry in as many ways as possible.
Getting Trump out of office ASAP is the END GAME.
Any and every tool in the bag should be used.
In this case, the ends justify the means.
5
Whew! It must be difficult to live in a world where every decision becomes about an election. This is not a parlor game and you should be ashamed of yourself for trying to turn it into one. This is about obstruction of justice and it is about possible treason, a president of the United States doing the bidding of a foreign power.
Whether a president who obstructs justice or commits treason is a democrat or a republican is irrelevant. As long as you look at this situation from a political perspective and ask us to make a decision based on what hurts the political party you oppose, you are making a clear case that politics is above justice.
You are asking us to consider long-term political gain over what is best for the country. If we have a president who is unfit for the position, he or she should be removed from office as soon as possible. That would be in the best interest of the country.
8
Until Mitch McConnell decides to do his job there is no way to unseat this president. Impeachment only goes so far and will no doubt set up even worse partisan fighting. Meanwhile, all the other digressions will go unnoticed by most.
The best thing the House can do and I think leadership knows this, is to continue wide ranging investigations, gathering all the facts so that when the end comes only his most die hard supporters, which are really not about Trump at all but their own needs that put country last.
2
@Kathy -- if impeached McConnell cannot stop a senate trial.
And I think Mr. Trump will be impeached; I think it is nearly inevitable after the Mueller report is done.
It's also highly likely Mr. Trump, and possibly others of his family, will be indicted in New York state. That will set up a constitutional test in the Supreme Court as to whether he can be tried while President.
3
"There’s one more reason I’d prefer to see Mr. Trump laid low via the ballot. It will do more long-term damage to the Republican Party."
Perhaps Michael Tomasky is correct. The Whig party in the United States dissolved after Millard Fillmore was not nominated for a second term by the Whig party.
3
I am so tired of reading articles like this. Schoolchildren in America are taught one basic thing about democracy and how it's supposed to work in this country, and that's the idea that no one is above the law. The president is accountable to the people, he is not a king.
Every day Trump gets away with breaking our laws with impunity, and that's setting a horrible precedent for the future. People seem to think that if we just get rid of Trump, everything will snap back to the way it was before. But the norms of basic decency, ethical behavior, and professionalism in our government are being shredded, at great cost to our country's stability and prosperity.
Trump should be dealt with as the Constitution demands. He should be impeached, tried in the Senate, removed from office, and then tried for his crimes. Period. Here in Illinois, we impeached our governor a few election cycles ago. That governor is currently sitting in jail, and our state is better for it.
13
The best way to dump the hostage taking traitor in the White House?
Any way that can be done. But I'd prefer he take Pence, the Christian Sharia guy who ignores the Jesus of the Gospels.
And Mitch McConnell is too low for words. Party over people, he violates his oath to the Constitution every day.
Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely.
9
The rule of law should never be suspended for fear of political backlash. If we start making excuses like this for not exercising the rule of law then our democracy is well and truly dead.
8
What is often forgotten in these discussions is this is not a game. There are dire consequences for people and for future generations that are at stake and we've forgotten that. It begins and end with the horse race and that is so far from what was intended. But we've seen it as such for so long that we see our vote as the way to make the other side pay instead of what is going to be the best thing for our fellow Americans.
And let's be honest the idea of making the Republican's pay for their mess makes us forget the reality that the Republican's mess is America's mess and that we are paying for it every day that the mess exists. Remember the mess that the Republican's left us after W. - it took 2 years before they voted Republicans back in, stifling the recovery that Obama started to bring which was then stonewalled at every chance.
At this moment both Trump and McConnell are failing to do the job they were elected to do and uphold the oaths they took to the American people and hundreds of thousands of people are suffering and there is no recourse except waiting for the next election. There should be more ways that Americans can pursue that could change the course of our current political direction. If it is trials for treason, impeachment, censure, votes of no confidence, petitions for removal - whatever - things should and need to change.
2
@Lucas Lynch: They swore their oaths to God. 27 billion years from now, it might come back to haunt them.
A deal: He resigns and in returned is pardoned for all his crimes.. I would go for that.
@Dam
I wouldn't.
Impeachment would surely cause uproars coupled with shouts of rigged Congressional action, lots of fake news howls and demonstrations. Jim Comey, too, says he hopes Trump's White House will be taken from him by ballot.
I'd rather live through that than allow our ignorant, book-starved, irrational occupant of the White House do another two years of horrific damage to the United States, our allies, Earth and our lives.
Knowing the Russians are working as hard as Trump's Troops to keep him in office, I'm in a snit worrying he could wind up in a second term. I vote for impeachment.
1
do Americans want to see President Trump go home to his penthouse and luxury country clubs, or do they want to see him in the hoosegow? last time around, there seemed to be a big sentiment on the side of locking up.
2
Not President is my only bar.
Every time someone says the Dems will be positioned "for a generation" I just think about all the resources the Mercers and Kochs and Adelsons will put into being the Phoenix that rises from the ashes. I also think that no candidate in the Republican Party or the Democratic Party has come up with the style that would stop trump, with the exception of Ocasio-Cortez. If the zingers don't fly we're all gonna cry when Trump waltzes in to his second term.
4
@gnowell: No doubt they'll pump up another fake Democrat with money and fool most of the people again.
Mr. Tomasky, Do you hear what you are saying? If this president is found guilty of criminal behavior, then we should forbear the Constitution and simply wait and vote him out. Why? Because, somehow, that would allow the Trumpites to reconcile their hurt feelings with the will of the people vs. impeachment, a political maneuver.
In case you haven't noticed, the Always Trump folks are at this point capable of watching a video of Trump in the process of committing a crime against the USA, and they would continue to make excuses for him. We have certainly lost our minds if our democracy hinges on making those people "feel okay" vs. booting a criminal out of office.
Moreover, if found guilty of the charges you lay out, then Trump is not simply repudiating his oath of office but acting against the interests of the United States. That, sir, is treason. And we are talking about a president of the United States.
Trump's one "gift" may be that he has so undercut the normal workings of government and the common decency inherent in human behavior that in just two years, many Americans are simply shrugging off the fact that the FBI opened an investigation into the president for possibly being an agent of Russia.
To me, and independent, that is what's nuts.
6
@Diana: Trump can't even make his stooges believe that he's responsible for the government shut-down after boasting to Schumer and Pelosi that he'll take the rap for it.
Short of direct and unimpeachable evidence of conspiracy with Russia, I believe we should aim firmly for vigorous removal via the ballot box.
For those that are unfamiliar with international events, one only need look at the parallel events surrounding PM Thaksin Shinawatra of Thailand in 2006. The party he founded won the popular vote. He was, in my opinion, a wealthy businessman-turned-politician of a similar background, albeit one legitimately self-made; he governed with a similar populist-cum-autocrat style, albeit less destructively; he had a similarly large and unswervingly loyal rural political base; and he was ousted by Thailand's "urban elites," backed by the military, in a nearly-bloodless coup. The elites argued that Thaksin's populist pandering and autocratic style were destroying the nation's government, and undermining democracy.
While some key aspects of the cases are different (notably: we are talking about a legal impeachment, and Thailand sadly regularly relies on coups to get the job done), the consequences for Thailand's democratic institutions were disastrous, and in my view, instructive.
A large portion of Thai society (a majority, perhaps?) believed the arguments against were falsified. Confidence in Thailand's democracy plummeted. Resentment simmers to this day -- occasionally surfacing in cycles of violence and repression. I believe that we might see the same, or worse. Let's politically neuter Trump (go Pelosi!) and vote him out in 2020.
1
@A: Thailand is a constitutional monarchy, not a democracy.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politics_of_Thailand
America cannot survive one or two generations of a one party system. The Republican party needs to be revived from its current stupor. That needs to be the bottom line ... not the well being of the D's
1
@emanuensis: The US divides between pro-government and no-government polities.
With all due respect to Tomasky and his strategic argument for the Democratic Party's higher probability of winning 2020 without the presidential impeachment, democracy is already in trouble and, letting Trump walk free even when the body of proof is sound, it reveals how our democracy has really been fragile and shallow. Please stop politicking and keep partisan interests in the past. The nation's future and election are not something to be taken lightly and to gamble with. Good governance and critical American public policies are being repealed every day with Trump's stroke of a pen on his executive order. The quality of everything American is in a rapid decline - national security, diplomacy, health, economy, land, air, water, ocean, education, intelligence, solidarity, etc. etc. Democratic process and the Republic is in jeopardy and at high risk. POTUS 45 needs to eat his own ruins, swallow his ego, and face his demons by the Congress who supposedly represent the People and their will. The state of socioeconomic inequality that his tax policies have exacerbated is not sustainable and demoralizing the hard working and patriotic citizens and civil servants alike. How much longer do people have to put up with the doomed status quo and a likely dystopic future for their young? Let the process run its due course and justice served. Party-serving rhetoric and election-centric thinking are unwarranted, even detrimental to democracy, whether coming from the Right or Left.
@Gene: Three million votes were discarded to "elect" Trump in an election where no candidate even won a popular majority. This automatically triggers a run-off election in real democracies.
1
@Steve Bolger As a reminder, we do do not elect presidents by direct vote and never have. We are what's called a republic. Look it up.
I am not a fan of Trump and I do regret that in 2016 Republicans did not opt for Kasich or Jeb.
One reason, among other, why Trump will be remembered in history is how he eliminated his Primary opponents one after the other, leaving the Party with no other option than to stand behind the candidate they did not love.
I understand Mr. Tomasky's disappointment in Trump and in his Republican followers. Where I lose him is in how he throws away the baby (GOP) with the bathwater. It supposes that the Democrats are fundamentally better than Republicans. While Democrats claim to be holier than thou, they are not an inch better, or if you prefer, they are as bad as Republicans. It is still about campaign finance and special interests. Alexandra Ocasio Cortez, Bernie Sanders and their supporters are as bad for America as the Tea Party Republicans.
Let's hope that both the Republicans and Democrats in 2020 drop their extremes and give us a real choice.
@Harry: Trump knocked off all the Bible-thumpers running for the Republican nomination.
Trump’s being America’s commander-in-chief constitutes a national emergency, and emergency responders cannot wait two years! Yes mobilizing and dispatching emergency teams comes with many grave risks which are typical of emergency situations. Such risks are accurately described by you and other commenters.
The risk on the other side is that within two years our nation is unrecogizable to us. Why presume there will even be an election here in 2020?
3
It could be that the voters do decide and vote Trump out of office; at the same time the Russians again hack the process and Trump is again announced the winner.
@James B Any proof that the Russians hacked any elections. Please elucidate.
This column, as well as many comments from brave leftist warriors, are truly funny. The left, freshly seated at the House table, imagines itself as dealing with an all-you-can-eat buffet, and the argument is what should be tasted first. Do you want to try some impeachment ? Shall we taste the criminal indictment ? Don’t forget the defeat in election, it will leave a great taste in your mouth.
How about doing what’s legally justified and politically possible ? How about waiting for some actual proof, instead of the elusive evidence that’s permanently just around the corner for two years now ? How about not starting a show that will bring us for sure more partisan bitterness, and possibly four more years of Trump ?
1
@Gimme A. Break
The proof you suggest we wait for seems to be that relating to conspiracy with the Russians and yes, we have to wait for Robert Mueller's findings on that. But there is already fairly compelling evidence that Trump willfully broke campaign finance laws and obstructed justice. These are, in my view and in the opinion of many legal experts, impeachable offenses in themselves.
1
@Gimme A. Break -- Trump ("individual 1") is now proven to have committed felony violations of FECA with his conspiracy with Pecker and Clohen over the pay-off to McDougal, and money-laundering and tax fraud in his repayment of Cohen for the pay-off to Cliffords.
You'll perhaps be surprised to learn that he hasn't been impeached yet? Democrats do seem to be waiting for the Mueller report?
@Gimme A. Break: I wish we'd get a break from all the "I can't see an 800 lb gorilla!" stooges in Trump's entourage.
The author presumes there is no compelling reason for removing Trump from office immediately, rather than in slightly more than two years. There are numerous such reasons, but consider just one: rather than committing itself to mitigating the effects of climate change while there may still be time to do so effectively, as every other country in the world has done, Trump denies climate change and the urgent responsibility our nation, which disproportionately affects global climate, has to do something positive about it. Our Nero prefers that we rake our woodlands while he peddles "clean coal" snake oil to those foolish enough to listen.
Trump must go now, while life on Earth still has a chance. It cannot afford another two years of dithering or regress. We might make progress on some of the other pressing problems while we're at it; nothing suggests we can't do more than one thing at a time.
1
@George Moody Just a reminder George, there is no law that says you have to mitigate the effects of climate change. While a worthwhile goal, we still are a nation where the rule of law prevails. And if you ver chose to look at facts re the US Co2 emissions, you would see that they have dropped annually. Sometimes market forces rather than decrees have great impact.
All the while the US diddles, Trump nominates, and McConnell confirms, more judges who believe that government stands in the way of God's purification and perfection of the US.
2
in addition, if he is voted out of office, as a private citizen, he can easily be prosecuted for his crimes.
The worst thing which happened in 2016 was not Trump election. It is the Senate election. Without a Senate Majority, the harm that Trump did to the US would have been way, way, way more limited. Mc Connell is a bigger problem than Trump.
5
OK, there is a bunch of commenters here that are seriously advancing the novel idea that impeachment does not have to be for crimes.
They cite, of all things, the Constitution (whose actual words they suddenly discovered), which refers to "high crimes and misdemeanors", and offers examples of treason and bribery. They claim these crimes or misdemeanors may not be against the law. Come again?
I ask: on what planet does committing a high crime or misdemeanor not break the law?
May I point out that the definition of "crime" and "misdemeanor" is action that breaks a law. Otherwise they would not be crimes and misdemeanors.
One wonders.
2
@John Xavier III: Lying to Congress about sex is the existing minimum required infraction meriting impeachment established by precedent.
1
@John Xavier III
The framers' use of the term "high crimes" rather than just "crimes" suggests that they meant to cover abuses of power and public trust that might not necessarily be criminal infractions if done by an ordinary citizen.
Well, it seems to me that if he is impeached, Pence will take over, which is bad enough, but then he will immediately pardon Trump, and justice will not be served. On the other hand, if he is allowed to serve his whole term, surely he will lose the election. Then he can be indicted, convicted, and sent to prison for the rest of his life. Wouldn't that feel good?
3
Let's see. Impeachment would do harm to the Nation in that the divisions created will be enormous and make trump more of a martyr to the cause (the cause of racists, liars and greed above all else).
Voting him out will do harm to the GOP party. Hopefully for years to come--or at least until they get their senses back together and start representing people over greed and power.
Which do I prefer? --At this point anything-- either way that gets him to go away, so that we can have normalcy, mental stability and a functioning government. I want to just stop thinking DAILY about how he is destroying everything we stand for or should be standing for.
I Really Don't Care which, I just want him gone.
We shall weather this storm, and regain our footing-- but not without suffering damage--that is for certain. We are paying the price -for choosing ignorance- either way-and we will for a long time.
5
This may have been written of elsewhere in this comments thread but, if you were to wait fo an election to toss Trump, given that there's been nothing done since the last one to ensure that the electoral process is not messed with again, one might fully expect that you will see the same outcome: "President" Trump for yet another 4 years and just maybe more.
It is absurd to me that a country as great as the US would willingly submit to the presidency of a clown and an all-but-charged-and-convicted felon for any more time than what it is committed to at the moment.
Impeachment now, perhaps an indictment too. And, I don't know, but if your constitution is open to having an imprisoned convict run for president, perhaps we could sell that sit-com to HBO.
2
@Charles Sager: Can you imagine any fool cheeky enough to instigate a radical revolution after three million votes were discarded to declare him the winner by virtue of a stupid relic of slavery?
@Steve Bolger Try reading the definition of a direct democracy versus that of a republic. Should have learned that in high school. BTW, we are a republic.
The "best way to dump Trump" is not to dump him at all, but, rather, to let him take his well deserved standing ovation for a job well done when he exits the White House in January 2025 (after utterly trouncing the weaklings the Democratic party will undoubtedly put up in 2020 as an afternoon snack for the big guy). During President Trump's exit he'll surely let America know from the bottom of his heart what a pleasure it was to serve as President to each and every one of us and that we're all welcome for the bounty he brought us all by his service.
We need protection now. 2020 may be too late. Iran and China are not responding to his threats. They have nuclear power. I worry.
I very rarely disagree with Mr. Tomasky, but here are a few thoughts: This is a uniquely dangerous and illegitimate president and, therefore, the country needs a uniquely definitive and clear remedy for now and, hopefully, the future. We need a crystal clear NO to authoritarianism, bigotry, and overt criminality. We need to impeach and convict (first in the Senate, then in the courts) this malevolent, evil man to set an example for anyone else who might consider following in his footsteps.
1
There is another scenario. The results of the Mueller investigation are so bad that Republican leaders go to the White House and effectively give him a vote of no confidence. That plus public pressure might cause him to resign particularly if he could trade it for a pardon from Pence.
2
Mr. Tomasky needs to add one additional factor to his calculus: the amount of damage Trump can do to the country to January 2021.
1
I agree: House Democrats must NOT impeach Trump. In fact, they should check every righteous impulse to do so. This won't be easy, especially after Robert Mueller's devastating report, when the Democratic urge to impeach will be overwhelming. But they must resist the temptation. Why?
Impeachments are always political exercises but impeaching Trump in a presidential election year is a particularly bad idea and will unlikely unfold as expected. Not only will it exacerbate our already tribal-ridden and hyper-partisan politics but Trump will fight to the death, subverting the whole process in a circus atmosphere of alternative facts and fakery, rampant disinformation, a gravity-defying parallel universe of political reality to buffer against the facts of Mueller's report.
Given our dysfunctional politics, let us not be too surprised if impeaching Trump has the unintended effect of making him a sympathetic figure. After all, his diehard supporters have been waiting for Democrats to impeach the guy since his election. Any failure to convict in the Senate will surely be portrayed as a NOT GUILTY verdict, and a Trump triumph.
If enough voters feel that Democrats had overreached, our worst fear might come true: The reelection of Donald Trump in 2020. We can all agree that would be the greatest danger to our Republic.
Trump will get his just deserts. But let the people do it. We should give millions of Americans the opportunity to correct the mistake they made in 2016.
4
@J.T. Wilder: Trumpism is never admitting you ever made a mistake.
I wholeheartedly agree with voting him out rather then impeachment. However, I am afraid Mr. Trump will not accept the result of the election-- as he had said in 2016 that he would not if he loses! Then we will have a bigger constitutional crises.
3
There are three fundamental problems with the arguments made in this article:
1) It conflates the role of impeachment and elections by suggesting that both are merely "valid excercise[s] of power" utilized by the electorate to "ditch presidents and parties they don't like." This conflation trivializes the purpose and meaning of impeachment, which exists to remove officials who have violated their oaths, abused their power, or otherwise engaged in high crimes and misdemeanors; not just officials we "don't like."
2) It ignores the very real damage Trump will continue to do if he is left in power for another two years.
3) It ignores the deterrent value of impeachment: future would-be autocrats will be watching the next two years very closely. If the worst Trump suffers is a lost election, the next autocrat will be emboldened by the lack of consequences for similar behavior.
3
The two biggest crises facing us are climate change and nuclear proliferation. All other issues are dwarfed by comparison. Trump has and is actively making both issues worse. If Trump were prevented from doing more damage between now and 2020, I'd agree with the author, but he clearly won't be. He must be removed from office, legally and peacefully, as soon as possible.
3
while I agree with your concerns about what Trump will do in the second half of his term, what - realistically - is the time frame for the House to act on one of the impeachment bills, and then for the Senate to vote to convict? I doubt the Senate would vote at all because McConnell could come up with a way to worm out of it, and if they do vote, they won't convict, but either way, Trump's term will be at the very best all but over by the time impeachment would run its course.
Under normal circumstances, when we trust our systems (including confirming that our vote is counted, and that all who are eligible can vote, and districts are not rigged), voting is just the thing to do.
But when an enemy power infiltrates our system - when we can't trust that what we vote will be reflected in the outcome - voting is not the answer, sadly. This election was stolen. Voting will not fix that. An example must be made, the crime must be uncovered, the perps must be removed and punished, and only then can some of the incredible damage being done start to undergo repair.
These are not normal times. Typical solutions won't work.
Based on the comments, I feel obligated to point out Democrats helped undermine impeachment as a legitimate process. Republicans were certainly out to get Bill Clinton. Democrats didn't need to tie themselves in pretzels defending him though. We ended up with another George Bush anyway. Removing Clinton might have actually helped Al Gore's chances. Re-running another Clinton 15 years later certainly didn't help.
I think this is a consideration Tomasky is trying to highlight.
1
"Nov. 3, 2020, when perhaps a record number of voters will cast their ballots and a DECISIVE MAJORITY will say to Mr. Trump: Go home."
A DECISIVE MAJORITY, by 3 MILLION, cast their votes AGAINST Donald Trump in 2016.
Several observers are convinced that there are ALREADY 20 Republican senators ready to vote for impeachment.
Mr. Tomasky, your arguments are weak and unconvincing.
When sufficient evidence is placed upon the public table to warrant impeachment Nancy Peloci will have NO CHOICE but to exercise her constitutional responsibility.
1
@Richard Ellmyer FYI, we do nott elect presidents by direct vote and never have for good reason.. We are a republic. Check with T Jefferson, B Franklin et al and consider a pass at your high school civics book.
I’m for waiting for the election simply because as long as Trump is in the Oval Office - and Pence isn’t - the ability of this “administration” (regime) to do further damage is hampered significantly by the chaos. If Trump is gone, the republicans will immediately fall into lockstep behind Pence and a lot of really bad stuff can happen in the next two years as a result. Trump may be the most visible component of our horrendously ineffective government, but he’s by far not the only component and the others have the potential to be much more discreet and effective. In a weird way, the chaos is keeping all that in check and I’m all for the voters giving the lot of them the boot in 2020.
2
This entire thesis falls apart if you consider the possibility that Trump DOES NOT run again for President. In his eyes, and in the eyes of his supporters, (not me), he'll leave office as a "WINNER".
1
Barring some unexpected bombshell, impeachment will be nothing but an exercise in political gamesmanship. It will rile up Trump's defenders and detractors alike, it will absorb all of Congress's time and crowd out all other priorities, and it will almost certainly not lead to removal from office.
Consider me old-fashioned, but wouldn't it be a mark of true leadership if Democratic leaders instead set out to distinguish themselves from Trump in leadership and integrity, and then defeat him at the ballot box.
Just imagine if Democrats laid out a list of bipartisan problems that they wanted to solve between now and 2020 and then worked with Trump and the Republicans to solve them. Take immigration. I bet Trump would give away the whole farm in exchange for a couple hundred miles of border wall.
Or take the deficit. I bet Trump would consider higher taxes as part of an actual plan to reduce the deficit. Reagan and Bush Sr. did, and Trump is far less idealistic or conservative than either of them.
Democrats would have to do those things at the expense of not humiliating Trump. BUT humiliating Trump will not win over most Americans. Wouldn't you rather remove the Trumpkins' rationale for electing an amoral bulldog rather than continue to stoke the partisan flames?
1
They already tried this with immigration. They were going to give him 20 billion last summer in exchange for DACA. He said he’d sign whatever bipartisan legislation was put in front of him. 24 hours later, he backed out.
4
One thing that always strikes me is that people are so concerned with the perceived damage it will do to democracy to "overturn the will of the voters" as if that had not already happened through the electoral college in 2016 and the Supreme Court in 2000. Liberals have spent too long taking their lumps for the greater good and is has led to nothing of the sort.
6
The other big reason to go the election route: Mike Pence.
He only looks more sane. He’s not.
7
While i agree with this in principle, having trump have to make a deal to stay out of jail , post potus, would be even better and with the added benefit of a short term pence potus, so magnificent would he flop to and fro from proselytizer to pardoner, ending forever the notion that a preacher needs the bully pulpit. We would have a two-fer, the farce and the frock, to remind us that it is pragmatism not extremist partisanship or populist rancor, that can lead the way in this post-modern world.
Job One: defeat Trump and Trumpism—politically. I have no doubt a case can be made that the president has committed impeachable offenses. But just as we cannot bomb our way to defeat of religion-inspired terrorists, we cannot defeat Trumpism with impeachment. Rather, we must spare no effort to bring forward the best candidates, expose and ridicule Trump, and march to the polls in our millions and tens of millions.
6
What laws has Mike Pence broken? If you cannot answer this in detail, let the current president keep on keeping on. With Nixon, it was a learning experience for the country, as ever so slowly, one by one, Republicans cut him loose. It was a cleansing process. Ths time, with Fox News, it will take even longer, but a religious state under Mike Pence is the alternative.
1
I was a student in Berlin back in the Cold War Days and became interested in Hitler's rise to power. He was a populist too and gave the same kind of support to authoritarianism as does our President. Could National Socialist Workers Party -NSDAP (Nazist) ever grab a foothold in America? I hope not - but listening to President Trump's anti-immigrant rhetoric and his MAGA compared to Hitler's haranguing I am struck by the similarities.
6
@Mark Konkel-White There are 22 million illegals in the US according to Yale... If they are being demonized it doesn't seem to be their enthusiasm to move to the US.
The author presupposes that a House impeachment followed by a Senate acquittal helps Trump's chances in 2020. This seems far from obvious to me. What it does do is force every Republican senator who supports acquittal to put his or her party-over-country ethos firmly into the public record.
The way events are unfolding, such an acquittal vote will more likely damage the electoral prospects of senators up for reelection in 2020, and further unmask the rot at the Republican party's core. If the goal is to take the GOP down with Trump, forcing them to stand publicly on the deck of his sinking ship seems like just thing.
Proceeding with the impeachment vote also has the advantage of being the legally and ethically correct course of action, which I think matters more than has been acknowledged here.
4
I vote for resignation in lieu of prosecution. But only for federal offenses, thereby leaving the state of New York (and any other states) free to have at him.
3
Mr. Tomasky's notion that Trump nation will be mollified if people are nice to him -- as, for example, if the House forebears impeaching him -- is disproven daily.
Let's just do what is right and not be tactical on this one.
6
I am a Republican, and I very much dislike Trump. I am also waiting for the adults in the room to step forward.
This is the time for real leaders of substance to step forward and recapture the American people from the partisan warfare reflected in the Trump presidency. And yet, we instead seem to be getting Democrat after Democrat competing to beat Trump at his own game.
The impeachment trap is just that. This is not 1974, Trump has not broken the public trust ... because he never earned it in the first place. The voters actually knowingly elected a dishonest, dishonorable man because they thought he was better than the alternative. That makes impeachment a lot harder than it was at an earlier time. (It ought to also result in a lot of soul searching from the "alternatives"!)
What I would really like to see from Democrats is real leadership, a real attempt to solve real problems, to forge political compromises with a man who, distasteful as he is, happens to be president, and an effort to win over more than just the Left wing of the country on policy. A political impeachment process is counterproductive to all of those things.
Unless a viable Republican challenger steps forward, I will almost certainly vote in the Democratic primary, and I am looking for a Democrat I can vote for in the general. This is the Democrats' shot at creating a broad governing coalition. Will they seize it, or will they continue to engage in partisan gamesmanship?
7
@Econ101
The first step in governing a broad, governing coalition is for Republicans to put their country first, above their partisan and re-election interests. Like the Republicans did in Watergate - men and women of good conscience. I see none of that today, from this bunch of spineless Senators, who simply give cover to their malignant, Dear Leader. God, I miss real Republicans like McCain and Bush 41, who understood the meaning of duty and honor. Romney has recently been playing both sides and the middle. A center left, and center right coalition can only work when you have people of integrity in office, someone with the courage to call out the insanity of this President for the good of the country. And not just those leaving office and taking potshots as they go out the door, like Corker and Flake. All I see is profiles in cowardice, not courage. As they all lash themselves the the mast of the SS Trump, the party will sink with him for years. Lindsay Graham is the # sycophant, with Ted Cruz close behind. Mitch McConnell refuses to do his job - have votes on funding the government. The Senate Republicans have abdicated their Constitutional authority to this dictator, and he tantrum. I hope the voters never forget which party willingly almost destroyed our democracy. McConnell has created the toxicity in DC. Look how he rammed the vote to destroy the ACA - bill written behind closed doors, no debate, no Dem participation, no amendments allowed...never forget.
@Econ101 -- with all due respect, I doubt that any broad or consensus government can be had. There are multiple reasons for this, but the biggest of them is that there is no centrist wing of the GOP left.
McConnell and the remaining Republicans are dying by the sword of the Hastert rule and the calamity of Trumpismo. The GOP has turned itself into an authoritarian (read "neo-fascist") white-power personality cult that is doing its absolute best to alienate everyone except right-wing white males ... and it is succeeding.
There's no compromise possible, don't look for one.
The sweet dreams of liberals wringing their hands nervously.
Lol, knowing full well that Mueller's report will be so Anti-Climatic.
What will the left do then?
Will they apologize for all the lies they spread saying "They knew...Had knowledge...Had seen evidence of yadda yadda yadda?"
Nope...They'll cringe and start some other complaint to go with the other 86 "PLANNED" investgations.
Not trying to fix the country's Health Issues, Voter Fiascos, Drug Addiction, Immigration Chaos, War Policies etc.
Instead they'll waste their time and let DJT keep the White House by proxy.
1
Being the same age as he is, I have always admired Joe Biden and voted for him twice to be Vice President.
I am too old and decrepit to be President and so is he.
4
One problem, Mr. Tomasky. I am not at all certain that our country can actually survive two more years of Trump chaos.
The main argument against impeachment seems to be that it's very unlikely that enough Senate Republicans would vote for conviction. There is no doubt that it would require such clear and certain evidence that even Trump's strongest partisans cannot finally deny it. But with new revelations coming out on an almost daily basis and the Mueller report looming, I get the feeling that such evidence may well soon appear. And as they hear more and more from constituents who are suffering because of Trump's actions, specifically the continuing government shutdown, the Senators may become more inclined to listen to the evidence that they have, up to now, been able to ignore.
The good of the country demands that the harm Trump is doing to it daily must be stopped...and quickly.
6
Patience, patience. We need to hear Michael Cohen's testimony on February 7 and then we need to await the completion of the Mueller inquiry and report. Once all of that is done, and perhaps other revelatory public testimonies have been given, we all can judge the proper course of action. It may be that the state of the investigation and its conclusions make impeachment and conviction or resignation an inevitable conclusion. This may all happen this year. In fact, if this is the path, it should be this year.
3
What would happen if impeachment proceedings overlap the election process? Would impeachment have to be completed before the primaries or the presidential campaign?
My fear is that failure to impeach will lead other politicians to follow the same path. However, I am convinced that Trump will only be removed from office by the ballot. Republicans are terrified of his base. The only ones who dare speak out against him have left office.
Probably the best approach on the part of Democrats is to continue the investigations, bringing to light all the corruption, while encouraging some one like Romney to begin a primary run against him, splitting the party apart.
The issue is not whether or not to vote him out. The issue is whether or not the Senate and House can be trusted to do their jobs properly. If they can, what is more damaging to the country, a newtered President, or the process and distraction of impeachment. In the latter, all bets are off if there is an attack on the United States itself (ala 9/11 and #43); in the former, is #45's ego such that he will pick up a 8th text book and read how a bill becomes law, what the Supreme Court does, and what the Executive does. Perhaps learning for the first time that he is the chief law enforcement officer in the United States. I think about the visuals in the old movie "Dave." Maybe those graphics should be brought into the oval office as well as the Congress.
What about using the 25th?
1
If we let him stay and then merely lose at the ballot you assume he will go quietly. That's crazy. Try again but this time put your feet in his shoes and walk like a crazy duck for a bit and then you might begin to understand that he would rather declare martial law than allow an election to overturn him.
1
There's another good reason not to impeach, much as I want Trump out right now. If Trump is impeached and Pence becomes president, we will have to fight Pence, who is no better than Trump, but doesn't have Trump's baggage in the 2020 election. Pence is a liar just like Trump, but he wraps his lies in a nicer package.
I suggest impeachment only if we can rid ourselves of both Trump and Pence, which appears to be highly unlikely.
4
I respectfully disagree with the argument to wait until 2020. Trump is a malignancy on the office of President- his criminality and incompetence represent an existential threat to the country and our democracy, not to mention national security. All evidence points to a conspiracy to steal the election in close coordination with Russia. This is much more serious than the self dealing of the President. The awesome powers vested in this office must be stripped from such a person ( a witting or unwitting agent of Putin) immediately. Look at the damage he has done to NATO and our strategic alliances. General Mattis had to stop him from leaving NATO! Putin's puppet? Definitely. The Helsinki press conference fawning ( I believe Putin's denial or 17 U.S. intelligence agency conclusions) was nauseous and disgusting. Why is Trump hiding his one on one conversations with Putin. Patriots need to act immediately.
2
Will the Trump base ever waver in their full support of Trump — and will House and Senate Republicans fearful of their backlash in primaries— ever vote guilty — even with Mueller’s evidence that is irrefutable? Won’t Fox News, Limbaugh, Coulter frame Mueller’s report as “fake news”? Won’t the Christian Right continue to support as their God ordained President? How I wish that Trump supporters could be convinced. I see no evidence for this.
Voting a politician out of office is how we normally deal with a situation where politician isn't performing or has in some other way disappointed our expectations. Trump, however, is a clear and present danger to America and actually the world. Allowing him to stay in office another two years is very risky. He's unstable, incompetent, amoral and narcissistic. He's already damaged America's reputation/standing in the world and has hurt our citizens by his actions and policies . The sooner we can remove him from office the better. Impeachment is the tool to accomplish removal.
3
Republicans voted to impeach Bill Clinton for lying about sex, a very low bar in a country where everyone lies about sex.
If Democrats don't vote to impeach Donald Trump for one or more of the many very serious charges he stands accused of, then they've reset the bar to an unobtainable level.
The question we face is impeachment, use it or lose it.
3
@Skeptical1 You've learned the wrong lesson from history. Republicans impeached Clinton, and it cost them dearly at the polls. Every Republican involved in that effort admits it was a political disaster and would not do it again.
Good point! My great biggest fear is that impeachment will fail in the Republican Senate and then ensure Trump’s as “victim” to re-election using the same electoral strategy of 2016. Then, would we also have established a lasting precedent that renders impeachment unlikely for any President?
@Econ101 -- this "conclusion" of yours is silly.
Bill Clinton's presidency was followed by GWB. The Democrats did gain seats in the Senate, and won a few in the House, but the Republicans held control of the presidency and congress after that election ... and what a disaster that election and GWB were!
You cannot bear to say the words "Newt Gingrich" can you? Newt blew himself up -- the impeachment was part of itm his stupid shutdowns and childish tantrums were at least as important.
Trump isn't smart enough to see the connection or take the hint.
What you don't understand is that Justice is at stake here. This isn't just a political calculation. History needs a record of who stood up against know-nothing autocrat. If Mueller's report confirms a Russian conspiracy, that's treasonous. I don't care if the Senate doesn't impeach him. But the Dems need to go on record so that twenty years from now, the next generation knows that conspiring with a foreign nation is shameful and wrong and will result in impeachment. Not pursuing a president's treasonous behavior condones it.
3
What ever the solution is, it should involve disgrace as he and his ilk have brought to the White House. Personifying the importance of their degradation and subsequent obstruction of valued institutions.
1
@nrs The Clintons beat him to the degradation and corruption. They have massive wealth on a gov paycheck.
No. How about no. The man is obviously a criminal and Tomasky is out here telling us we should just wait around for another election while everything burns. There might not be much left by 2020 Mr. Tomasky.
3
Only a justice department memo separates this president from arrest and jail. It will take fortitude to arrest the president, I suggest we all start ginning it up.
3
Spoken like a man with enough wealth to endure the decay, if not destruction, of our civic institutions. Must be nice.
2
If he's voted out then I hope his next stop is prison. I would rather not have my tax dollars go to comfortably supporting him and his library (Tweet collection?) once he is out of the office. I'd happily have my tax dollars go to putting him an orange jumpsuit at Hotel Leavenworth.
3
Given what is already known about his behavior with Putin and taking the notes (which are government property aren't they?) and his constant failure to answer any questions in ridiculous press appearances - if there is any question of treason why is he permitted to act in any official capacity?
4
Fortunately these two are not our only options.
The "clear and present danger" in voting Trump out is a repeat of the same political chicanery that "voted" Trump *IN - even *after he lost the 2016 Election by 3.5 Million Votes.
The danger in Impeaching Trump is that it could *easily take the remainder of his present Term to get that DONE, but then, at least, he *cannot be re-elected.
MY strong preference would be to Invoke the 25th Amendment
of the Constitution and show Trump incapable of performing the requirements of his Office on the basis of a clearly demonstrated mental and emotional inability to even *comprehend his duties.
4
I once was convinced that electoral defeat was the best way to rid ourselves of Trump. And it may indeed be the best way. But in recent weeks, I have begun to reconsider, based on the prospect of 77 days: the span of time between Nov. 3, 2020, and Jan. 20, 2021.
Having seen the ways in which Republican governors have laid waste to policies and sound government when rendered lame ducks by Democratic opponents, I am terrified by the thought of what Trump might well do in the time between his defeat at the polls and when he is escorted (sulking, no doubt) from the White House on Inauguration Day, 2021.
In short, if recent days are a display of what he can do when arguably constrained by the need to be presidential, what horrors might he commit when no longer so constrained?
Pardoning every two-bit grifter and simpering toadie still in his favor would be only the start.
2
You make a very good point. That period of time between the election and the swearing in is supposed to allow for an orderly transition of power, but republicans are now using it to leave disaster in their wake, pardon their felonious partners in crime and to hamper the efforts of those who defeated them to right the ship of state. It would serve us well as a country to start passing legislation that would eliminate or at least limit the ability of those leaving office to get up to such antics on the way out the door - regardless of party affiliation.
Unless you want to be saluting the Russian flag, we can’t just wait it out til the next election. Now is the time to mobilize all our legal remedies to remove this president.
A precedent needs to be set.
4
It doesn't matter how he goes, just as long as he is gone and the hatred, fear, lies, incompetence, and stupidity and classless cluelessness of his so-called administration go with him. Then decent Americans can be proud of our Country again.
1
The willingness seriously to ponder impeachment before Mueller has issued his report indicates a substantial degree of latent frothiness. Maybe Trump has committed high crimes and misdemeanors. Maybe some people just wish he hadn't been elected. They are different questions.
Lost in Tomasky's essay is any consideration of the irreparable damage that Trump will cause within this country and around the world every additional day that he remains in office. The current government shutdown is a stunning demonstration of this domestically. And Trump's inept, impulsive handling of the situations in Syria and Turkey is another, with the risk of war with Iran looming as long as John Bolton is empowered by Trump.
2
@Kathrine wore "I think even the GOP Senate would turn on him in that situation."
It wasn't that long ago that I thought that too. But now I believe there are fewer than that number who even care more about the country & the constitutional precedent, than they do about their own political skin (they are afraid of being "primaried" by the vast multitudes of Trump Zombies, who will continue supporting him right up to the line of Treason as long as he keeps stoking their fears & hatreds). You and I may say "why would you want a job representing such people anyway?" but you and I are not elected GOP members, so we can't judge them by our own patriotic morals.
1
I disagree with Mr. Tomasky. I believe that allowing Mr. Trump to serve his full term essentially says that, depending on circumstances, we will allow election fraud and violations of the Constitution. Democrats must take a moral stand, or our democracy will continue to unravel.
1
This talk of impeachment and that the President is a Russian asset is driving independent voters away from the Democrats. Best to focus on finding the best candidate for 2020. Spraying the wall with innuendo and a barrel full of candidates is not the way to win.
1
The best way to dump Trump, given that the Republicans will never take a single step to protect the American people from Trump's ignorance, incompetence and criminality, is to conduct Congressional hearings investigating his corrupt business practices, tax evasion and treasonous collaboration with Russia. The groundless, endless Clinton Email hearings will look like a walk in the park by comparison.
Trump's rabid fans don't care evil what Trump has done or might do. In fact many Evangelists claim Trump was sent by their god. However, as a result of these thorough investigative hearings, a growing majority of Americans will join in the effort to rid this country of Trump and, equally importantly, the Republicans in Congress that inflicted Trump on the citizens of the United States.
The GOP knew full well what danger Trump is to our nation and the world. Now all Americans will see them for the traitors they really are
2
I'm underscoring Michael's comments below: "The more time they have in office, the more damage they can inflict, some could be irreversible damage to life, national security and our country's future." When someone is bleeding, you don't wait for an ideal bandage. You stop the bleeding. When you realize what you've been drinking is toxic, you don't finish the bottle just because you paid for it. One may argue for impeachment based on a past crime, but just as strong is the argument for protecting the country from future damage. In this case both principles apply: neither the past nor projected future look too good.
2
Regarding another column, "White House Considers Using Storm Aid Funds as a Way to Pay for the Border Wall," I had commented as follows. It fits here as well, but this time directed toward the column itself and not the readers' comments:
"I read a lot of comments here expressing appropriate outrage about our con man in the White House. (As many do, I use "con man" as simply a useful, concise phrase covering Trump's broad range of disgusting behavior and personality disorders that are ruining America, maybe irreparably.)
What surprises me is how few (thankfully it wasn't zero) express the imperative that he be REMOVED from office. And BEFORE November 2020. Remember, if he gets voted out of office as some prefer, he stays on until January 2021. He would be quite willing do scorched-earth damage in those last two months -- nay, he would enjoy it.
My final statement was to be, 'Are we going to let him fiddle while Rome burns?' But it is worse than that: He is fiddling and throwing gasoline on the fire."
1
I fear the President will attack Iran before leaving office, no matter how and when that may happen. I have read that he already has asked for plans, and Michael Bolton is at work.
1
In my opinion, this President is a shame because of the way he conducts himself and his notion that he is above the law. For that reason, I prefer taking him out via the ballot.
This column is wise. Winning the war matters more than winning a battle. An observer taking a long term view would see the Republican Party destroying itself. The only thing that will save it would be an intervention by the Democratic Party that would turn Trump into a martyr, absolve the Republicans of responsibility for Trump, and do the heavy lifting of cleaning the Republican stables for them.
Afraid he might start a war? You mean make a move that might at last prove to the collective reactionary mind of the military establishment that since Richard Nixon the Republicans have never hesitated to cynically spend American lives in service to their party and not the country, and pry them from the Republican embrace?
Barring the emergence of a crime that forces the Republicans themselves to call for Trump's impeachment we should regard the current chaos as the golden opportunity for real change that it is.
1
Forgot one thing. All the damage that can be done over the next two years
1
Trump is destroying himself right now as we watch with his shutdown. This absolutely has a lot to do with impeaching Trump, making it far more likely he will be.
The Republicans in Congress didn't want his wall (if they had, he would have gotten it when they controlled Congress), and they SURE don't want his double-crossing shutdown that is extremely dangerous for them politically.
Many Republicans are already calling for this to be over, and it's obvious why. A long shutdown will be blamed on them; everybody knows that Senate Republicans could stop this quickly.
The more damage Trump does to Senate Republicans, the more likely they are to vote to remove him. Trump is not winning any friends in the Senate right now.
McConnell has already said he's running again in 2020 -- does he want the Republicans to lose the senate? A long shutdown could easily do that.
And then if Trump is impeached on strong grounds and the Senate refuses to remove, that could also do that.
Republicans need to ask themselves: do you want to lose the Presidency AND the Senate too? Republican Senators will surely be asking themselves the second part of that question.
The fact that Trump is an enormous liability to Republican candidates in swing states is a real issue, perhaps the dominant issue, in whether he gets removed.
1
It would be better for democracy to vote him out. But what are the chances of that? So far we don't have a DEM candidate who can really get in the trenches and destroy Trump. Without this "superhero candidate" we are faced with 6 more years of insanity and mounting totalitarianism in our government. What will be left at the end of this horror in 2024? We should consider any and all means to get rid of the threat of Trump to America now. Mueller might have the answer, and if he does, and we should take to the streets and insist it be acted on by Congress. We will need to pursue it with everything we've got. We can't afford to wait.
Best outcome, Trump is removed from, or forced out, of office. That may not be possible, but simply voting him out of office will just classify him a "one-term President", like Bush 1 and Jimmy Carter, not the fundamentally unqualified and unfit existential toxic menace he is. Allowing him the possibility of actually running again will have validated and legitimized the previous four years, with the distinct possibility that he could win again, with Russia's help, of course.
1
Whether or not he is impeached, the cry baby in chief must be indicted and prosecuted to the full extent of the law. The man was born a criminal to a criminal family and flim-flammed himself into the presidency. This in itself says a lot about republicans who will never vote to impeach one of their own. So, the ballot box should be the first step but Trump may well find himself arrested and lead away in handcuffs the day he leaves office, if not sooner. He must be held accountable.
If there is one thing that America's children have been learning since Trump took office (and even when he was a candidate) is that bullying, racism, sexism, probable criminal activity, and adoration of despots goes unpunished.
If Mueller's report adds treason to that ignoble laundry list of faults and we don't even try to impeach, we damage further our children's belief in laws and in adults.
As my 17-year-old granddaughter said to me last summer, "I really want to be proud of my country, but I can't be the way it is now."
There seem to be two cases for impeachment, both having to do with the 2020 election. First, it would pre-empt a Republican argument trying to minimize Trump's transgressions that could go something like this: "If the Democrats think the what Trump did was so illegal, why didn't they Impeach him" The second is to put Republican senators up for re-election, especially those in blue or purple states, on the spot. When they vote not to remove him from office, you tie that vote around their necks like an albatross.
The best way to dump Trump is for Republican members of Congress to step up to the plate with their Democratic colleagues and make him irrelevant with their legislative proposals and veto power.
1
The only way Trump and his party can sell martyrdom to the electorate in 2020 is to prove that Mueller is corrupt and colluding with Democrats. That is an impossibility because Mueller has conducted this inquiry with the highest possible integrity. Because of the extensive corruption in this country and internationally as well, this investigation is taking a very long time. The results will reveal far more than most of us can imagine. Any Republican on record of supporting those even remotely involved will be irreparably damaged.
1
Bravo. I completely agree. A Democratic landslide in 2020 would rid the country of the white nationalists in government. This is good for both our democracy and our country. It leaves the Republicans with the problem of how to rid themselves of the same element. That this might take a generation or two would truly be good news for the country.
Democrats should not even use the I word. )We don't have to. Trump and his defenders keep bringing it up.)
The only way Trump can be removed from office is if the Republican Party decides they have had enough. Until that time, Democrats that use the I words is only helping Trump unify the Republican Party.
If you don't have the power to remove the president, then talking about it is worse than a waste of time.
The smart thing to do is to concentrate on the reasons that Trump should be removed, without talking about removal. First the country has to admit there is a very serious problem, before you start proposing very serious remedies.
You have to have airtight case before you indict.
Instead of ending this piece with "Go home", I believe it would be more apt to say that the decisive majority will say to Mr. Trump: You're fired.
1
Go home, for sure. Preferably to FLA. I can't imagine he'll be welcome in NYC no matter how he is ousted from office.
In terms of whether to seek to impeach or wait, does it have to be one or the other? It seems unlikely to me that an impeachment proceeding could be concluded in 2 years -- but at least Dems will have gone on record as having tried and then, if the GOP renominates him for 2020 and he loses, despite his rabid base, won't we have the best of both worlds?
Another wonderful column from the far left La-la-Land. As much I would like to see the end of the shameful Trump presidency, I would like to point out that so far there has been a lot of disgusting and sometimes highly suspicious behavior, but no actual proof. This proof is just around the corner for two years now, but somehow not here yet.
For the left, anything that interrupts the glorious, historically correct march towards the “Progressive” heaven is reason enough to impeach. For us, ordinary folk, not so willing to leave in a banana republic, either Leftist or Trumpian, proof still matters, so we can actually get to see Trump’s back.
@Gimme A. Break
You are seeing fantasy where you should be seeing facts..
Trump (not Russians) paid hush money to sex partners during the campaign. His slim popular vote victories in the three states that made the difference would have been erased if the truth had been known.
It is also proven that the GOP congressmen who received Comey's private letter made it a public document. This should have been illegal. It's the low-hanging fruit of the 2016 election that no one is acting to fix.
Indictment, period. No matter what the Mueller probe uncovers, there is no way McConnell lets his GOP cronies remove Trump. Leave it up to the court to get Trump out of there.
1
Let him continue to make a fool of himself on the world stage. Catch him in even more lies, which is not a difficult task.
The more Americans that are alienated by his behavior, the better it is for the Dems.
I dislike the thought of a Pence presidency but Trump has to go before he gets us into a worse situation. Maybe now that we have control of the Congress we can control Pence. He may be evil but not insane.
I don't think this country could survive two more years of Trump. He has lied since the day... no, before he got into office and has disgraced it every day since. When the Mueller report comes out, giving the country a clear, documented proof of what the man has done, there should be no question of going forward with impeachment. Look at the situation we are in right now. The First Brat agreed to a deal, but folded when Coulter and Limbaugh ranted about the Wall. Now at the expense of hundreds of thousands of people including veterans, the elderly, low income, and farmers, how long will they go without a paycheck? He's not a leader, he's a child throwing a tantrum to get his way. Give him a pacifier and have him stand in the corner while the adults settle this. Two more years?! I shudder at the thought...
We really need Mueller's report sooner rather than later.
Another argument against impeachment is Mike Pence. In a sense we would be jumping from the "fryer to the frying pan."
The R's would be nuts to even let him on the ballot. I can see the attack ads...."We're on a collusion course...", DJT standing proudly in front of a Russian flag that has a blue field with 50 stars, ads with Trump and his running mate Putin, maybe even some tongue-in-cheek ads with Hillary about making a better choice this time, the Trump Train pulling into Shutdown Station, DJT flying around on Golfcourse 1....he's a joke, and most Americans will see him that way.
The Base may support him, they seem to be in total denial about the reality, the incompetence of this administration, but as he said, shoot a guy on 5th Ave. They seem to be interested only in disruption, with burning the house down. Last time others beyond the base were willing to give him a chance. That was a big mistake and why his "Caravan" fear campaign was rejected in the 2018 election. Even with the electoral college you can't win with 33% of the vote.
Yes 6.2 million folks have signed to impeach President Trump, but the U.S. population is 326+ million.
vote him out. Having him on the 2020 ticket is the best way to also vote out Republican enablers.
The best way to dump Trump, given that the Republicans will never take a single step to protect the American people from Trump's ignorance, incompetence and criminality, is to conduct Congressional hearings investigating his corrupt business practices, tax evasion and treasonous collaboration with Russia. The groundless, endless Clinton Email hearings will look like a walk in the park by comparison.
Trump's rabid fans don't care evil what Trump has done or might do. In fact many Evangelists claim Trump was sent by their god. However, as a result of these thorough investigative hearings, a growing majority of Americans will join in the effort to rid this country of Trump and, equally importantly, the Republicans in Congress that inflicted Trump on the citizens of the United States.
The GOP knew full well what danger Trump is to our nation and the world. Now all Americans will see them for the traitors they really are
1
I'm just as terrified of Pence as I am of Trump. Vote them out of office in 2020.
If the president is in cahoots with the Russians, we have no choice but to impeach. It's an ugly process; it overrides the will of voters. But, with Russian influence, every minute he's in office puts us at greater jeopardy.
And even if he's not under Russian influence, he must at some point be held responsible for criminal conduct, if it can be proven. The notion that criminality should be excused in a president has led us only to greater criminality.
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@Justin
Impeach all you want to, if the Senate does not convict it is useless except as a footnote of history. The Senate will not convict at this time and frankly I doubt that enough Republicans will ever look under their seats, find an ounce of courage and do the right thing, so why take a chance of shooting ourselves in the foot, creating sympathy for Trump with his partisans and maybe he gets re elected?
23
@Justin as well as what you suggest, the will of the voters was clear in the last election - and that will was to not have Trump as president. Until the Electoral College problem is sorted out the risk of the voters’ will being ignored is ever present to the detriment of the US and the world it would seem.
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@William S. Oser
I do believe that if the Mueller investigation turns up incontrovertible proof that the Russians own Trump and that there was collusion, amounting to treason, coming from the campaign, even Senate Republicans would have no choice but to impeach. If they did nothing, they would be in clear violation of their duties. I suspect that given clear proof, the Rep's will be more than happy to throw Trump under the bus and save whatever credibility they have as a party and as Americans.
What we have seen thus far is certainly sleazy and cringe worthy but I too would prefer the election to impeachment - we have to try to come together as a nation. In the meantime, we can probably thwart his worse impulses, prevent any Supreme Court nominations during his last year - Mitch, take note!!
Mueller's results could be a game changer and then I'm all for due process.
24
I wonder about the farmer's, who can't sell their soybeans. can't get money for next year's planting season. Iowa voted for IT. Wonder about the next time.All of us who are affected by this IT need to just vote IT out. No impeachment. Find me 20 Republican senators then we'll talk. Ballot box. Not that hard to do.
What about just doing what is RIGHT instead of playing politics. Trump is a disgrace to the office, a known liar and a criminal. We need to impeach him because it's the right thing to do.
4
I'm not sure if the world can stand two more years with this immoral lying racist. He needs to go to prison for his his crimes both before gaining the presidency and since he has been in that office.
1
I'd love to see him impeached but that will just suck all the air out of an effort to crush the GOP. I think Trump would just resign and hide in his golden tower if he's indicted. If he doesn't resign the best revenge would be for him to lose all 50 states in the general election. Destroying the Big Money power structure of the GOP should be the Dems main aim.
One thing not considered in this piece is if Democrats in the House take seriously their constitutional responsibilities and vote to impeach and then the Republicans do not come forward and vote to convict and remove, they set up another possible scenario for 2020: showing us the Dems are the responsible governing party who can be trusted to put country above party by carrying out their responsibilities, thereby helping the American people to regain faith in the institutions of our government. Meanwhile the Republicans will show once again that they will always put party above country. Why then would this not lead to the anti-Trump and anti-Republican voters being even more fired up to remove Republicans from office? The Republicans will have proved once and for all that no matter the circumstances they can not be trusted to govern responsibly. I personally think this would be even more destructive to the GOP. And if the Mueller report provides incontrovertible evidence of wrongdoing and the Dems decide to not to impeach purely for political reasons aren’t they just as guilty as Republicans in not providing us responsible government? I could then see a segment of the dem base (millennials) who would become completely disillusioned and decide it makes no difference whether they vote or not.
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I appreciate the power of removing "president" Trump via the ballot box, but without changes to the electoral college, what if he wins again; then what? Then we resort to impeachment with, one would hope, control of the House and the Senate. Suppose, however, the Republicans hold on to the Senate, then we've got another 4 years of dysfunction, watching as we slip closer to autocracy and our standing in the world drop even lower.
I would like to see our Congress do the moral, ethical, and legal thing by pursuing impeachment. I doubt the Senate would actually vote to convict, given their history of spinelessness, but we would at least be able to know that the House found sufficient evidence to impeach.
One point Mr. Tomasky and other pundits seem to have overlooked is the quite obvious fact that the Russians know how to twist the knobs of the American voting public and dial in megadoses of misinformation. There is nothing I am aware of that is now in place to prevent a recurrence of the tragedy our democracy has so recently suffered.
I tend to agree with the author of Russian Roulette Michael Isikoff, who said that's it's time for congress to conduct an open hearings and not to wait for Mueller report, present everything to the public in clear and transparent way, is the only way at the time when some portion of the public is still very confuse.
Congress needs to step up, he said especially in a light of recent reporting, the gravity of which cannot be ignore.
The time is now.
People need to hear from the House of Representatives.
1
with the tide moving against Trump,
the resistance to building the wall being but a sign
of what's to come,
the likelihood is the nation can contain his destructive impulses until 2020,
when we will have him voted out.
Impeachment is risky, unless the evidence is overwhelming.
Sorry, I respectfully disagree. The damage he has done to our institutions and world standing in just 2 years is incalculable. Two more years of this may be insurmountable.
Add to that the massive gerrymandering and voter suppression that will exist through the election, not to mention ongoing Russian interference, there is NO certainty that even if we turn out in massive numbers, we could vote him out.
Impeachment with a threat of indictment is, to my mind, the only course that can restore a belief in our system. I doubt very much that Republicans will be able to recover from Trump just by voting to impeach him. They will own him for years.
This article neglects to mention the obligation of our elected officials to maintain the oath of the office. Protecting the integrity of the Constitution is far more important than any "political" move. If the members of the House have ample evidence that Mr. Trump compromised the oath of office, then they have no choice but to begin articles of impeachment.
So you’re saying, appease the American voter who in too many numbers was imbecile enough to vote for an imbecile?
No.
There are three branches of government; let the Judiciary do what it’s meant to do. In succeeding years it will be more than clear what a terrible mistake too many voters made in 2016. It will be to their shame. There won’t be much of a debate as to politicization by then. Does anyone see Nixon as a beleaguered figure?
No.
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The true kool-aid drinkers who see greatness in Trump will not accept election results anyway. Don’t I recall that, in 2016 and expecting to lose, Trump had filed paperwork for a new tv channel? He was planning to decry how Hillary stole the election, and to reline his pockets with donations from The Base, a tele-charlitan suggesting salvation through fear and hate.
A simple election loss will bring this plan back, and we’ll permanently have this lying dingo nipping at the underbelly of Democracy, and unleashing his armed, enflamed mob. No thanks.
Wait for Mueller’s report. Impeach on its evidence. If 27 Republicans can’t find their integrity, let them then run on their vote to keep a Russian asset in place. Don’t, in the name of trusting the process and potential partisan gain, give Trump another two years to degrade the lives of Americans from farmers to feminists—heck, even the very planet.
2
Vote him out and prosecute all of the Trumps for their numerous crimes and include Melania for acting as a foreign agent for the Soviet Union--why else would she put up with this barbarian/the prenup money could not be enough!
1
Another reason to side with voting him out is that if impeached, we risk having then President Pence issue pardons to Trump, his family and his cronies. Being voted out subjects these parties to the full extent of the law outside of Presidential privilege.
I have a third option, arrest him for treason.
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The definition of blowback
blowback: The unintended adverse results of a political action or situation.
The risk of blowback, is too great a chance for the democrats to take. Leave it to the voters in 2020.
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If he runs and is re-elected in 2020, he can always be impeached then. If he is re-elected by a landslide (unlikely), this would likely not be successful. I agree that the best way is to vote him out of office, for all the reasons stated. Democrats must find a candidate that can beat him.
Actually, the prospect of a President Pence turns my stomach; after all that work, is this all the reward we would have? Best just to vote the two of them out of office. There is always the chance that Trump will decide not to run in 2020.
Yes, yes, and yes, to all the above: Impeach or vote him out in a tsunami. If a Grand Jury were to find cause to indict him on criminal charges, that he could possibly sidestep through reelection and statutes of limitation, then Impeachment is not only warranted, but necessary to the health of our Republic, where no man is above the law.
This is a reasonable and well thought through argument, but it neglects a couple of important concerns and makes a few suppositions that might be thought of as naive considering what we have seen from Trump:
1) It neglects to consider that Trump might well allow the Russians to interfere more egregiously in the next election, or might himself declare martial law for some spurious reason to suppress the minority vote. therefore resulting in his re-election.
2) It doesn't speculate about Trump resigning shortly before the end of his term, regardless of the result of the election, and then being pardoned by Pence, which many Americans (myself included) would see as a gross miscarry of justice.
3) It does not speculate about the fate of Trump after an election which he has lost and is then tried for his many crimes in Federal court. Would such a trial seem legitimate to Trump's supporters? More importantly, might it actually set a more dangerous precedent than an unsuccessful impeachment that at least exposed the level of his criminality -- ie, create an environment in which future presidents might be worried about ever leaving office for fear it would then lead to criminal prosecution (a common problem in badly functioning democracies).
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@Michele M. Interesting. There is also the point someone else made, of all the harm Trump and his administration will do in the next two years if left alone. (Of course, even in the case of a successful impeachment, the same administration will be in place. Would they be slowed down of chastened by an impeachment process? Maybe, maybe not.)
I think your last point is the best: if Trump can't be impeached, who can? The lesson of the Clinton impeachment may be important: this isn't an apocalyptic scenario. In Clinton's case, the Republicans came up with nothing very important, and life went on. In the case of Trump, there will be many more serious offenses to bring out, and the Republicans will probably want to move towards the Nixon solution after all, and Trump may go along with it. But even if we fail, he won't gain any new followers from the exercise.
If it is found that Mr. Trump obtained his post, in part at least, through illicit means and yet there are not direct consequences then the message to all future aspirants to the office is that cheating might help and there is no downside.
You might well expect that this would lead to the normalization of election tampering. I imagine this to be worse than the politics of impeachment. It would, in fact, represent the functional end of a democracy.
@Brian: Your system has a much better way than anything available to the US: the option to hold a snap election whenever the majority of parliament has lost confidence in an administration.
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@Steve Bolger: True. But on the other hand, our system does not separate the legislative branch from the executive branch and so our Prime Minister runs both. Sort of like if Mr. Trump also ran Congress and only his party could vote non-confidence.
In all truth, I prefer the US model.
@Brian: It makes no sense to me to pit the branches of government against each other in a stalemate.
There is one other reason to wait to vote him out of office. If Democrats in Congress are savvy enough to pass legislation that lines up with statements he has made about a few issues (job creation and infrastructure, affordable health care for all, treating our veterans better, taxing hedge fund managers at the same rate as everyone else, to name a few) there is a chance (admittedly a slim one) that he might help get a few good bills passed into law. There is no chance at all that Pence would do that.
1
I long to see Trump "perp walked out of the White House", but in the end I can also visualize his popularity soaring through the roof if we try such a move without enough votes to convict him. That is what happened with Clinton. And it appears that the DOJ will not allow him be indicted. So the ballot box is the only alternative and even that is risky.
We know now that the Russians will be determined to keep their highest ranking operative in office and will bombard the weaker states with sleazy email and web sites to give him a second term. We must all be very determined to get rid of him before he destroys our way of life.
But let us not forget Chile and Pinochet. After they got rid of the dictator , the country was able to return to normal, because the citizens there fervently wanted to live in a democracy. Which ever measure we use to rid ourselves of this jerk, we must stick to our desire to be a democracy.
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Ideally, I'd rather see the 25th Amendment put in play. Then, comes the indictments.
Even if he somehow were to manage escaping a conviction and jail, there are still plenty of lawsuits in New York State alone.
2
Well like it or not he was elected and based on many of the issues that normally keep a president around for a second term such as Economy, Security and growth he will be re-elected.
Why is it that his poll numbers remain the same in spite of the obvious attempts by the Press and Democratic party to bring him to his knees?
The investigations that have led to nothing in two years have only firmed up the opinion of millions that he is truly a man who the former and latter despise and have stopped at nothing to eliminate him. The term "Fake News" is a reality that most feel is truly earned by the media such as the NYT, CNN and the other same suspects.
So that reality coupled with the fractured list of Democratic players and a failure to underestimate the Border Crisis insures many more years and many more Supreme Court Justices.
@Straight Shooter
"The investigations that have led to nothing in two years..."
What world are you living in? In two years:
-- 36 Indictments
-- 7 Guilty Pleas
-- 100 plus contacts between Russians & Trump campaign
-- And lie after lie from Trump and his associates about said contacts with Russia.
Wake up, pal. Put down the Fox News koolaid and look at the facts. This is the most productive Special Prosecutor investigation in our history, and it's not over.
Really, so when can we expect to see him ousted??????????
As much as I agree with Mr Tomasky, that a voters’ rejection of this clown would be unassailable, I also agree with Tom that if this guy cannot be impeached that provision of the Constitution might as well be thrown out! He certainly is the poster boy for impeachment. God help us if we have to put up with this idiot for another 2 years, and the damage and the cost both literal and moral to the republic that his corrupt presidency is inflicting.
1
Mr. Tomasky certainly makes a good case for waiting till the 2020 election. But he overlooks the largest risk to doing so: the enormous (possible irreversible for generations, if ever) damage trump will continue to do to our alliances, DoJ, a free press (among other institutions), and our national security, among many others.
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The messy way is impeachment and we would be stuck with the bible thumper Mike Pence.
The election route eliminates Trump and Pence however entails two more years of the idiocy we are now suffering through. I suggest impeachment. There is always the chance #45 will resign again leaving us with Pence.
1
'Hey, if he told the truth more than he lies, everyone would believe him.'
-Yogi Berra
1
We can dump Trump at either the ballot box or impeachment but what about his base? A base that cares little for truth or compassion. A base where it is OK to be racist and misogynistic. A base that thinks anyone who does not look like them is an enemy. Sure we can dump Trump but what to do about almost half of the population yearn for days of old when everyone knew their place,
1
A thoughtful essay, but a few considerations are left unexamined.
First, set aside the possibility of a Senate conviction. Acquittal would be a blow, but if the facts lined up appropriately it could help illustrate the GOP’s toxic stranglehold on that chamber. Trump isn’t the only one up for election in 2020. if that election were preceded by one last public declaration of the Senate’s complicity in Trump’s malignancy, more’s the pity – for them.
Taking impeachment off the table essentially provides cover for the Senators. They could learn from a Trump loss, but would they if they kept their jobs? And wouldn’t it be more effective if they were simply shown the door, too?
Next, there’s that 2020 election. Despite its caveats, the essay seems to posit that a damning enough array of facts would make Trump’s comeuppance a foregone conclusion. But we all thought he'd lose in 2016. Trump is a bellwether for the American embrace of celebrity and verve over sobriety and skill. To put him on the ballot again is to play Russian roulette (!) with our country’s future. And that’s not even taking into account the opportunities available to a corrupt sitting President for influencing an election, or what a foreign power could continue to do...
Impeachment could fail and still herald a decisive 2020 loss for Trump and the GOP. And it's the right thing to do. Leaving that tactic in its silo would be the ultimate act of a Democratic Party out-of-touch with the state of our country today.
Not quite Mr. Tomasky; that decisive majority shall say to Mr. Trump:
YOU'RE FIRED!!
No Michael, there isn't. Dura lex sed lex. ([Impeachment] is a hard law - but law.) The Founders put that 'remedy' into the Good Book for a reason. Furthermore. there is no telling what this fellow will do between now and January 20, 2021. If, make that when, something goes horribly wrong, we, and the Congress, would have no one to blame but ourselves.
And while we are on the subject of The Good Book, please turn to Article III, Section III, which defines treason (beyond taking up arms against America) as: ". . . adhering to our enemies, giving them aid and comfort." Sound familiar?
This is no time to play political games. This is a clear and present danger. Fix it. Let the political chips fall where they may. This theater is crowded, and it's on fire.
What it takes is 19 Republican Senators. Start the count.
Putin will save America by ordering Trump to resign.
1
The way this might happen is if the billionaires running the GOP find Trump has outlived his usefulness and quietly inform him that his best option is to resign and get a Pence pardon including his entourage.
But, if these wealthy wackos think Trump can be re-elected, they will wait until that happens and then dump him. That way they’ll have a puppet for four more whole years who actually is compos mentis.
1
So, you mean, wait for it, have the issue actually decided at the ballot box?
Oh my God! How novel.
1
I don’t know where the impeachment process will take us.
I believe that those republicans senators who remain defenders of this bigot clown will find themselves tethered to a leader with ZERO credibility going into the 2020 elections.
In 2020 there are a lot of republican senators who have to defend their seats.
It’s a lose lose.
Hurrah!
1
Rage aside, I agree.
"one that would come on the night of Nov. 3, 2020, when perhaps a record number of voters will cast their ballots and a decisive majority will say to Mr. Trump: Go home."
Correction on last two words, it should be "Lock him up!".
1
Why wait for 2020? Impeachment is tempting but indictment seems more likely. Besides Mueller's report, which may include treason, there's money laundering, corruption on a grand scale, violations of the emoluments clause, charity fraud, tax evasion and wasting taxpayers money on golf cart rentals.
2
The problem is not 45. It is the massive divisions in our society created by the right wing propaganda machine. The president is merely the exploiter. Ailes, Breitbart and others with the exacerbating assistance of the FSB have destroyed the thing they hate and fear the most. Democracy.
2
Instead of wasting taxpayers money on impeachment how about approving the border wall and it would show that Democrats are actually serious about keeping the USA a sovereign nation so as to protect all the citizens inside the wall from pests, diseases and pestilence that can devastate an economy and the sovereign nations peoples who are legally there and went through all the legal immigration processes so as to legally be in the USA. Illegals can bring new diseases into a country that can devastate an economy and wipe out it's citizens. They are also a burden on the nations infrastructure as governments have to plan years ahead for population growth.
2
We need to get rid of a rude, crude, mean, ignorant president.
The article suggests this will be very hard to do.
What a shame.
1
This is a stupid article because it does not evaluate the horrendous risks of continuing the have Trump as President for two full more years rather than reducing that period by removing him from office by impeachment before the next presidential election.
For those of us who believe that there is already enough evidence of Trump's treason with Russian, Saudi Arabia, and other oligarchys, we think every day which passes makes America weaker and more subject to attack internally or externally by foreign adversaries. This might come through the economy (by, for example, China) or it might come through increasing the military power of American adversaries such as Iran, Syria, and Russia.
Every day which passes increases our danger and the magnitude of our potential losses. We don't know what we don't know, but we know that he will not come forward about his many secret conversations and meetings with Vladimir Putin. Trump has been open on TV about his obsequeousness to Putin. There is no explanation of Trump's behavior except that he is a Putin puppet. What does it take for our stupid Republican and Democratic leaders to do their duty to defend the Constitution, according to the oath which they swear upon taking office?
Good Americans are exhausted by this travesty. Every time I hear Nancy Pelosi say we don't have enough evidence yet - I want to scream. Where is leadership to end this nightmare?
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Nixon: Watergate. Reagon: Iran Contra. Bush Sr was part of Iran Contra. Bush Jr: war crimes. If there are two things you can rely on Republicans to be it's racists and criminals. It's time to stop coddling Republican presidents, impeach the MRer and put him in prison. Until Republicans learn that their lawless treason will be punished, they won't change.
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@Ronald B Duke: In a word you will understand: Nyet!
I believe you have to treat Trump like a virulent disease: If you leave him alone, waiting for the 2020 election, will he do irreparable harm to the country. If yes, explore every way possible to remove him now.
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"Legendary journalist Carl Bernstein has said that he’s been told that special counsel Robert Mueller’s report will show how President Donald Trump helped Russia destabilize the United States.” - Newsweek
If this is true, Trump needs to be impeached & removed. He should then be arrested and tried for capital Treason. If found guilty he should be shot as a traitor. The minute we get a guilty treason verdict, the military needs to go on war footing with Russia. We should then issue a $10 million bounty for Putin's head. There are somethings that cannot be allowed and recruiting the President of the United States needs to cost Putin his life.
1
There could be a military tribunal at which the "commander and chief" would be charged with giving aid and comfort to the enemy.
He would be Court Maritaled and Dishonorably Discharged.
Why has President Bone Spur not been required to take a Lie Detector test?
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@Fred Armstrong treason is a capital crime and would be adjudicated in a civilian court.
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The issue for me is not impeachment. The issue for me is containment. The House should open up a special committee to discuss impeachment and present carefully all the evidence including the Special Prosecutor and continue it right through 2020. Each day new revelations. A Benghazi kind of daily evidence dumb.
1
Crimes need to be punished. There is no liberty without Justice For All!
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Another reason not to impeach Trump: why tee up Mike Pence for a 2020 run?
1
It’s called a general election.
If Trump loses the 2020 election and refuses to go then surely that is the time for men in white coats to lead him away. Either that or men in blue uniforms !
1
Voting Trump out in 2020 - means - also - voting Pence out in 2020 - they both need to be voted out - or - people in the South and Midwest will vote for Pence as President - which would be another horrible reality onto itself.
1
Without a certainty of an overwhelming conviction in the Senate, impeachment would be a truly foolish exercise that would harm, not help, the country.
This post made by a rabid Never Trumper who is praying that Big Macs and KFC will do the job.
Nonsense, Mr. Tomasky. If Mueller's report documents irrefutable evidence that Trump committed high crimes and misdemeanors, on several levels and of serious harm to our nation, he should be impeached, as the Constitution requires Congressional oversight of the president. Trump has already damaged our nation and its laws and customs, and the worldwide economy -- to say nothing of his blatant and ignorant disregard of human caused climate change -- in his first two years in office. Think of all the further damage he will certainly inflict if given another two full years. Even though conviction would be uncertain in the Senate, the impeachment proceedings would at least slow the continuation of this reckless administration's horrific policies.
1
Our Nation and democracy and our citizenry as well as our liberties are imperiled by a man without morals nor commitments to anyone other than himself who is willing to collude with Putin to make money disregarding the catastrophic consequences for everyone in a Nation whose rule of law he swore to uphold. Impeach or vote him and his Congressional supporters out of office. He imperils the Nation and the world with his ignorant, self serving conduct. Be gone and slink into the dark cave of ignominy.
Has there ever been a president who practically begs to be impeached?
Trump is possibly the nastiest person to ever inhabit the public sphere. His daily onslaught of corrosive, belligerent and degrading tweets and the constant turmoil as we witness the unfurling evidence of his crimes have exhausted the country.
He must go.
6
I'm not a fan of perp walks for criminals but in this case the country needs to see Trump in cuffs being walked out of the White House.
We elected a mob boss to be President. He should be treated like a mob boss.
6
A Ballot Box defeat followed by an impeachment and conviction in December of 2020.
What ever it is, it had best be soon, without pastor pence. I fear Bolton and Pompeo are getting us into a big war and we no longer have allies. We are in deep doo.
3
Remember the "If I shoot someone on Fifth Avenue I wouldn't lose a vote" argument? Either way whether the liar-in-chief is removed by the election or by impeachment and conviction, his 'base" will cry foul the same way: voter fraud, George Soros, and fake news media. Heck the liar-in-chief even cried voter fraud himself when he lost the popular vote and at least some of is base bought that.
So if it were up to me to call it, given all the assumptions made in the column, the ideal way is to have him impeached and convicted, and then charged with treason and go onto jail in a place that will be renamed Trump Prison.
This is not vengeance but appropriate punishment for what he has done to our country.
2
As it stands, I think the ballot box is the way to throw this idiot out.
However, we are kind of premature. Ultimately it depends on what is in the Mueller report. While the publicly available information is certainly grounds for impeachment, what we really need to see is what is in the Mueller report.
I tend to think that the stuff in that report will be so awful and treasonous (Trump has been a dirtbag his whole life) that it may not leave us a choice. If it is as bad as I believe it will be, even a good chunk of Republicans will be for it.
Impeachment on the current information would not work even though it is justified (by the Bill Clinton Standard). But many Trump supporters are:
(1) not inclined to accept facts that contradict their worldview
(2) heavily armed
(3) whipped into a fury by various conspiracy theories offered by Limbaugh, Qanon, Coulter, Hannity and the rest of the clown brigade on the right.
Thus impeachment without overwhelming evidence is dangerous.
I think we all need to take a deep breath and realize how perilous a moment this is in our nation's history and then proceed slowly and thoughtfully. With Trump, regardless of the issue, things tend to get out of hand very quickly.
impeach now or put the country at unknowable risks.
If you have a malignancy, do you sit idly by in hope of the possibility of a cure two years later and in the expectation that you will still be alive to take that cure, or do you cut it out now before it kills you?
1
The discussion about whether it is better to impeach "the president" of wait for 2020 is academic, theoretical and irrelevant. This psychopath of a president needs to be removed irrespective of what it takes, right now. Every day sees another step in the wrecking of the country, and by extension the stability of the world. Impeachment may have been a mechanisms implemented by the Founding Fathers and the Constitution. But what they did not foresee was that anybody this bad would ever be able to ascend to the position as president - maybe somebody lusting for power but not somebody being substantially more insane than the "mad King George" - who by comparison seems quite tame.
The President has done nothing wrong and is trying to end the endless wars and the McCain/Cheney/NYT Neocons don't want these wars ever to end. Wanting a good relationship with Russia is a good thing and we have done much worse to Russia than them to us like reportedly Madeleine Albright advising to split up Russia by weakening it by economic means. Firing of Comey was justified and it was Rod Rosentein that fired him. Funny if Mueller says firing Comey was obstruction when his boss Rosentein fired him for cause. The Deep State was exposed by the NYT when Comey buddies in the FBI sought to remove Trump from office but apparently could not find anything credible.
1
So how long would you tolerate a President selling secrets to Russia? Would you wait until 2020.
2
Impeachment is too good for Trump, and it would put Pence in office. Better to leave him there as a ridiculous, ignored and pitied old man, exposed as a phony, consulted by no one, holding press conferences to which no one shows up, and knowing he will be overwhelmed with criminal and civil charges when he leaves office.
If he resigns, he can make a deal for Pence to pardon him. I want to see him begging to be allowed to resign. He deserves the worst he gets.
2
@Jonathan - Better yet, put THE WALL around the
White House so that he can see it everyday.
Padlock it.
1
"Republicans are left sitting in the wreckage. They will be trying to air out the Trump stench for a generation, maybe two, which is precisely the fate they deserve."
It didn't take a generation to air out the Bush/Cheney stench of a war spun from manipulative lies and a devastating financial collapse. Just a few years later and Cheney's daughter is in the House and Bolton and Hannity in the White House. There is no hiatus or cease fire between the opposition and stupidity, mendacity and greed. There never has been one or will be one. ...but I do agree that an unravelling Trump (and he seems to be more and alarmingly unhinged since firing his babysitters in the Cabinet) limping towards 2020 like a wounded animal is preferable to an attempted impeachment.
2
Our democracy deprived the Indians of their land, the slaves of their freedom, the women of their voting rights, the Europeans of solving their conflicts on their own during the WWI (thus setting them up for the WWII), the Korean and Vietnamese people of solving their internal problems free of the foreign meddling, the Iranians, the Egyptians and many Latin America countries of their freely elected governments, the Palestinians of their homeland, the African American of their civil rights, the Old Continent from being free from the military blocks, and the Iraqis, the Syrians and the Libyans of a socialist system (only to be replaced with the ISIS and the sectarian wars)…
Our democracy supported the worst tyrants in the Middle East and Latin America, the spread of the radical Wahhabism with our petrodollars and security experts in order to kick the socialism out of the region, but blocked a return of the refugees to their ancestral homes…
Tragedy is that all those problems predated the Trump Administration, but we accuse him of betraying our time-tested policies?!
Waiting gives him two more years to do more damage; to discredit the U.S. further, to destroy more lives, to ruin additional resources; to further deteriorate our (U.S.) stance in the world.
Let the fight begin; start the process of iimpeachment, and if it takes two years, we'll at least be able to say we got the ball rolling.
Please. Remove this political parasite from office.
1
There is no time to wait to do the right thing. Their treason and criminal conspiracy are ongoing and must be stopped as soon as practicable. The law is that which requires action, and no one is above the law! The ballot box is not how the law is enforced, no matter Mr. Tomasky's predilections.
PROSECUTE RUSSIAGATE!
Michael Tomasky writes: “...on the night of Nov. 3, 2020, when perhaps a record number of voters will cast their ballots and a decisive majority will say to Mr. Trump: Go home.”
He neglects to add: “But when the Electoral College replies: ‘Not so fast. Stick around for four more years.’ “
Two more years of Trump is too scary to contemplate.
@Gail Chiarello
Really? We've already had two years. No new wars.
If anything he's pulling us out of wars. The most bountiful economic times in about a generation after an anemic Obama-led "recovery." I love being scared in these ways. If it makes you feel better it isn't 2 years, but 6.
Totally agree. End of comment.
All this sounds sensible, except for one thing: the risk of something truly catastrophic happening sometime in the next two years, all because of Trump, is probably close to 50/50. We should not fool ourselves into thinking we can just wait this out: Trump is a menace, and we should try, by all possible means, to have him removed from office, or make him want to resign. He must already hate being President -- maybe he will just resign in disgust. What a day of deliverance that will be.
Impeachment of Trump would just turn him into a martyr for his base and allow him to continue his false narrative that the system is rigged. Let the voters throw him out and better yet, let his own base, who he has deceived, be the ones to do it, symbolically much like the Italians did to Mussolini.
The other way to beat Trump is run an aspirational candidate who advocates for policies that are popular with the American people. Is it that difficult to read a poll and talk to everyday people? Medicare4All is popular even with a majority of Republicans for God's sakes. Affordable state college. But how will we pay for all these ponies they will say? How about using the hundreds of billions of dollars in wars and spending that money here. All those dollars will be injected into our economy and lift everyone. Also, a Koch bothers study, hardly "socialist" found that a Medicare4All system would actually SAVE two trillion dollars over ten years AND cover everyone. Trump ran a faux populist campaign against an uninspiring establishment candidate. Run a real inspiring populist candidate and you will win. In case anyone forgets, we elected a black guy with a muslim name once based on his simple message of hope, and more importantly, change. It has worked and it will work again.
All crimes aside, his speech patterns clearly show dementia. He is a threat to world peace. He has violated all his oaths and now bows to the whims of vicious talk radio (Coulter and Limbaugh). There is not even a reasonable question as to why he should not be impeached. otherwise, America is over.
Fox News should tell Donald J. Trump to open up the government or Fox News commentators will end up eating bad meat, fruits and vegetables. Fox News commentators may end up driving to the hospitals.
If, as seems increasingly likely, Trump has actually committed treason by doing everything he can to serve Russia at our expense, he needs to be impeached immediately.
If the Republicans refuse to impeach a traitor, we need to get it on the record so the American people can punish them all in 2020.
1
While you play your parlor game, Trump will play his.
While you discuss the law, the constitution, and the best ways for democracy—all too complex and annoying for your president—he will start a war, nice and simple.
1
To impeach and remove him requires a high crime & misdemeanor followed by a US Senate trial & conviction. The GOP couldn’t get Clinton removed from office; there’s nothing to suggest Trump has been any worse.
The Times’ needs to move on from its revenge politics and instead focus on candidates & solutions that would benefit all Americans and not the Times’ favored liberal constituencies. These endless columns about removing Trump are a wearisome disservice to paying subscribers.
What if he wins?
What a load of virtue signaling hogwash. How generous of Tomasky to suggest that instead of attempting to impeach Trump with no evidence of Russian collusion or anything otherwise impeachable, he'll instead settle for the slightly superior option of letting the American people decide with a presidential election. How magnanimous.
Not a word here about what happens after impeachment: Pence.
Can we do both?
You are overlooking one really important issue -- who would Trump's Democratic opponent be in 2020? The last time around, the New York Times and the Democratic elites gave us Hillary Clinton and look how that turned out. If the Dems force another really, really bad candidate (someone who was known to be corrupt) on the American electorate, we'll do what we did last time and pick Trump again (who, like Pig Pen from the Charlie Brown comic strip, walks around in a cloud of suspicion).
@Greg Beckstrom
If only she'd been more popular?!?
Not sure how it's the victim's fault that they were robbed...
@Jack That's really funny. HC and her cronies did everything in their power to rob Bernie Sanders of a legitimate shot at the Democratic nomination.
If you really want to impeach Trump one day, you must first create enough bipartisanship to be able to put Obama Barack into the prison.
If you don’t know why, it just means that you are so partisan that you even cannot recognize the blatant crimes against the humanity.
This makes a lot of sense in many ways, assuming that Trump doesn't start WWIII and/or do more irreparable hard to the country. Of course when he loses in 2020 we can then put him on trial for treason and the other many crimes he has committed. Here's hoping he rots in jail, if not hanged for treason.
Dems need to use DJT’s words and use actual clips against him in their advertising lest the people forget. Imo would be much more effective than Steyers “reasons for impeachment” ads. The American public need to be constantly reminded of his ugly racism, inability to lead & un-American behavior and they will only believe it when they see it coming from DJT himself.
Some examples:
DJT comments after Charlottesville.
Helsinki DJT comments supporting Putin
His “owning” the shutdown meeting with Schumer & Pelosi
Defending Saudi MSB in the killing of journalist.
And that’s not including the false statements made publicly by DJT.
He never should have seen the inside of the Oval Office to start with, and needs to be removed - yesterday.
2
An even better scenario: Trump loses the election in a big way. Then after leaving office, he is indicted for tax fraud, bribery (euphemistically called emuluments in the constitution), obstruction of justice, conspiracy to commit election fraud, etc. etc. He is then convicted and sentenced to prison. Hey, a man can dream can't he. My ultimate vision: Donald Trump in an orange jump suit. It's a beautiful thing.
1
The degradation of the Republican Party is the kicker that sells me on Tomasky's argument. Even though I would like to see him removed from office and jailed tomorrow, the true prize that we must keep our eyes on is the destruction of the hideously corrupt Republican Party that is rapidly reducing the USA to banana republic status. It is not enough to merely remove the head of the mafia and leave the rest of the criminal enterprise intact.
1
third option: americans, defending their country, take to the streets overrun the government and physically drag these bums out of office.
No, Mr. Tomasky. We the people would tell Donald Trump to go to jail.
Can my nerves withstand the wait? The inevitable and never ending insults spewing from Trump's garbage mouth, and everyone is supposed to cringe from, as though he was the school yard bully or criminal gang leader? The further efforts of Putin the Puppeteer to divide the nation against itself? The appeals to "white nationalists" who lost their cultural identity and morality 3 generations ago, and never received an adequate education in science, history, or the liberal arts by a public school system directed by those who favor feudalism? Who have no mental tools to recognize the propaganda of FOX or hate radio, or the inner resources to turn it off? Oh, please. Before Trump does worse, which he surely will, in any given week, boot him out for incompetence and then indict, indict, indict.
1
I agree with you - 100%. But the problem will be running against Trumps record. He has the economy at 3% GDP, a USMCA trade pact, energy independence, North Korea not testing and returning hostages and American soldier's remains, Assad not gassing his people, NATO pledging $10 billion more, ISIS caliphait gone and "First Step" bipartisan law passed the Senate. But...
On Friday, the Times ran a story indicating several days after Trump fired Comey the FBI started a counter intelligence investigation of the president for aiding Russia to the detriment of the US. The probe was initiated by Andrew McCabe, former Acting Director of the FBI. The key source was Jim Baker, former FBI General Counsel. Yesterday the WAPO ran a companion story of how Trump hid his private conversations with Putin, citing the first story a number of times. Today, all the Sunday TV News Programs, featured these two stories - watched by many Americans.
So you have Trump possibly a Russian agent who tried to cover up the facts, including secret talks with Putin. This was then made public to as many Americans as possible - all in just three days! This despite the fact that the illegal activity took place almost two years ago. Trump vigorously denies stories as Fake News.
But the troubling three questions requiring answers are 1). Are these treasonous acts fact of fiction; 2). How and why did all this become public and 3). How did NYT, WAPO and TV networks do this in 3 days?
Coincidence or Cooperation?
@Frank Leibold: Trump has given the economy a $1.5 trillion snort of debt cocaine, and the stock market seems to be getting a stroke from it.
3
I'm sorry to go somewhat off topic, but I noticed the look on Trump's interpreter's face as she sat beside him and across the table from Putin. I also noted the way Putin flaunted his own notebook as both men stood before us in Helsinki as if to say, "Hey, I got my notes; where are your boy's?"
If looks could kill, this whole point would be a mute argument. The interpreter's affect alarmed me more than any of this mess. Apparently Trump told Putin he believed himwhen he denied meddling.
I would also look like that if forced to assist in the commission of treason because of some rotten NDA or security clearance threat. I bet she's just dying to reveal what a puppet says when meeting with his maker.
Make me a REAL boy!
1
This piece shows that the writer has only ONE criterion for success: partisan political advantage for Democrats. Not what's good for the country, which is, of course, the policies of Donald Trump, including, one notes, actually enforcing the laws
(specifically immigration law).
And its full of left wing lies! " by any common-sense definition, obstructed justice repeatedly in public " is utterly silly. Only the deranged would say that.
" If you can’t impeach a president whose very election is found to have been illegitimate, then whom can you impeach? " is also utter poppycock. His election was wholly legitamate ... he had the votes in the Electoral College, because that who The People voted in.
The grounds for impeachment of this aberration of a man who has been our president for the last two years, are more than evident . If we are able to survive two more years of a president who is a national security threat on several fronts ,our best bet of getting rid of him and the gutless Republicans who have supported him , is to defeat Donald Trump and his cohort of Republicans so badly, that the next generation of imbeciles will think twice before they try anything like this again.
A great advantage to defeating Donald Trump in the 2020 election is is that he can be indicted for the crimes that he has most probably committed and in being indicted for these crimes he will very likely be convicted because he won’t have Mitch McConnell, Lindsey Graham, and Devon Nunes to defend him .
And if we have a Democrat in the White House in 2020 you can bet that he will not be pardoned in much the same way the Gerald Ford pardoned Nixon .
If Donald Trump was truly intelligent (and he clearly isn’t) he would resign before his term ends so that he can be pardoned by his Vice President . But I hope he will stay in office for the next two years and erode what is left of his credibility so that we can finally have the satisfaction of ridding ourselves of Donald Trump once and for all in 2020 .
I'd rather he defect to Moscow of his own free will.
1
@Hotel -for the summer, Saudi Arabia for winter.
3
If Trump's election is illegitimate, and if he has committed crimes, then he MUST be impeached, otherwise it implies we don't really care about corruption and graft in the nation's highest offices. We would be saying: "Oh, so our President is a crook? Oh well, aren't they all? Ho hum." This attitude does more damage to the democratic fabric than the corruption it lets pass.
1
I say, forget about impeachment or the 2020 election. Tweet him into oblivion.
If I broke the law I would be convicted and punished. The same holds true for the president. He is not above the law. Of course his base will be angry. They already are because of our president's behavior stirring up hate and fear of others. Even if the Senate won't convict, it will leave Donald more chewed up than emboldened. His base might be chipped away as they hear from Mueller and the Congressional hearings of his high crimes and misdemeanors. I say Impeach! I cannot stand this incompetent man running again. Too depressing to think about.
1
Do we really want to provide secret service protections for life to this imbecile and his family? This would legitimize everything he does and provide a measure of government involvement. What is the ethical ramifications of secret service employees being a party to potential illegal activities from an ex-president?
1
He's a traitor & a criminal. He should be impeached or forced to resign. Although, having him defeated in 2020, would possibly make it easier for his base to accept, taking a chance on him winning again is playing with fire. He never should have been allowed to run. He's damaged the country, instilled fear & anger in our citizens & stained the very office he occupies. Get him out.
1
You brought up some interesting points. However, at this point I just can't see the Democrats not pushing for impeachment because this president is so thoroughly corrupt, and quite frankly just dumb. It is like being a police officer watching a thief shoplift in plain sight. The best thing the Democrats can do is try to draw out investigations and hope the American people stop this masquerade once in for all in 2020. That is asking for a lot, and quite frankly, I just don't think this country is up to it. It is quite a dilemma.
Trump will ignite a new Syrian war with his comments about Turkey and Kurds. We can send him over there to fight since maybe his bone spurs have healed. That’s one way to get rid of him.
"Wait for the 2020 election" to see Trump gone? Are you kidding? That's sadism! We're all sick enough of this scoundrel after just 2 years of him.
Considering all the HARM Trump has done, and will continue to do, to Americans' psyches; to the environment; to the nation's social, economic, and political infrastructures; to ally relations; to enemy impressions; etc.; it would be downright dangerous to wait till 2020 for the removal of TNT Trump.
2
A better reason.
Impeachment => resignation => deal.
Lose => prosecute => jail => Justice.
You mean there is a stronger case for letting Trump go out in 2020, then for punishing him for the crimes he has committed?
Just like Obama did for the thousands of Wall Street crooks who he let walk away with no penalty what so ever, in 2008?
Don't you see? This is why people supported a crook like Trump in the first place. Americans are fed up with letting the crooks just walk away, unpunished.
We must restore justice to this country - for those who, like Trump, appear to be immune from it. Fix that, and the outrageous and out of control concentration of wealth with the top 10% and you will go a long way towards healing the divisions in this country that paved the way for a crook like Trump to get control of our government.
Trump is a con man and a crook. Treat him like he is.
The question has the makings of a parlor game that could occupy the passions of anti-Trump Americans for months. Strong cases can be made for both sides of the argument. I come down on the side of the ballot box, and firmly so, because it has more historical authority and legitimacy — and for one other reason that I’ll reveal in a bit.
http://www.siyasat.pk/dunya-news-live.php
So you’re saying, humor the American voter who in too many numbers was imbecile enough to vote for an imbecile?
No.
So much appeasement, so little time.
There are three branches of government; let the Judiciary do what it’s meant to do. In succeeding years it will be more than clear what a terrible mistake too many voters made in 2016. There won’t be much of a debate as to politicization by then. Does anyone see Nixon as a beleaguered figure?
No.
4
President Trump is a Russia asset. Let that sink in for a few seconds.
Then consider that a bunch of GOP candidates took contributions from Russia laundered through the NRA .
How does the USA bring these traitors to justice?
3
Don’t you realize now why somebody always speaking the truth to the power would end up crucified two millenniums ago?
He didn’t speak the truth to get killed or to accept somebody else’s sins but to help the rest of the world become better - more just, more tolerant, and smarter…
Only the truth can set us free.
Why do you suppose he will “go home” peaceably?
No! The country cannot afford another two years of Trump Chaos. Remove him!
Americans tried that in 2016, but despite a 3 million vote majority for Clinton....... Did Mr. Tomasky forget that?
1
Impeachment is a drastic measure and has been used sparingly in our history. Trump is a corrupt liar who is clearly unfit for office and had commited crimes before and during his reign. The Democrat controlled house should create committees and hold public hearings on this mans misrule. That is the right thing to do. I would not be so sure that Pence would be a successful presidential candidate. He will have been tainted by his disgraced boss, Trump.
And what if they rig it again for Trump?
Yesterday is not soon enough.
Impeachment would shutdown the country for a time. All eyes and ears will be captive. We can't afford anymore shutdown. I am afraid the Mueller report will also paralyze us for months.
Better to work now to form the 2020 team. Not one unilateral TV personality. A full on cabinet ready to hit the ground and work together cohesively. Boring but wonky. A collective of dedicated and knowledgable partners rather than party and partisan adversaries.
It's the team, stupid. What we don't have now. But need desperately.
The headline from a front page of this paper today:
Pentagon Officials Fear Bolton’s Actions Increase Risk of Clash With Iran
We can not afford to wait.
We risk WW3 or worse.
Michael Tomasky and many others miss or ignore what I think is the key point:President Trump is mentally ill, ignorant, lazy, and amoral while still being willful, and is thereby incapable of governing competently. What about all the decisions he as head of state will make before Jan 20, 2021?
Every day, every hour, he remains in the most important job on the planet he poses a danger to numerous people in the USA and elsewhere. We should take whatever legal steps are appropriate to remove him from office A.S.A.P. If Republicans block that from happening at least we'll know we've tried - and his misdeeds will be on them.
1
Maybe Tomasky didn't read today's NYT. Bolton is busy starting a war with Iran, a nuclear power. America cannot afford to wait for a handful of republicans to impeach Trump. It's time to Yellow Vest (shutdown) the country. Millions of us should meet at the Wash Memorial & demand the removal of Trump and enact a series of changes which include reversal of Citizen's United, terminate the Electoral College, McConnell's stranglehold over the senate, and address Climate Change.
1
I agree, kick the bums out in 2020. If Trump is impeached, Pence becomes president, a man without an ounce of difference.
The big question: After granted political asylum by bro Putin, should we push for extradition for his crimes?
1
"Go home?" How about "Go to prison"?
2
Every day in every way, Trump is forsaking his duties as President. He is a criminal and is endangering the country and the world. We can't stand another two years of this.
I don't believe Michael Tomasky has an inkling of the problem. Trump is a real danger to our democracy and the rule of law. Plus, America is losing credibility throughout the world. If we allow this lawless, traitorous, vulgar, liar to maintain power and proceed through the electoral process to remove him, it just shows that the Constitution and the rule of law mean nothing. He will have gotten away with it. The worst way to get rid of him is through a normal electoral process. He is a criminal and should be prosecuted and put in prison.
1
We have to impeach him... he needs to leave now, before he can do anymore harm.
Trump is a problem, but Republicans all hundred million of them are the REAL PROBLEM. Nothing predicts Republican sensibilities more than race, religion, and the desire to destroy.
It is an irony, a cynical joke, that Republican want to MAGA by doubling down on all they have done in the last several decades to shame and destroy America.
Because of Republicans America jails more people than any other country - more than China or India with four times our population each! Think on that, Christian!
I won't belabor all the other horrible things these deplorable Republicans have put on America.
1
I agree that beating Trump at the ballot is the way to go. He needs to be humiliated by losing as badly as possible fair and square so that his 30% followers can crawl back into their hidey holes.
The key is to keep the threat of impeachment front and center during the election season until November 2020.
1
Beware of that Red under your bed and watch out for them there Ruskies.
I was an active participant in Cold War V1.0, especially LBJ's contribution.
I'll sit out Cold War V2.0 and have a laugh.
The Russians are Coming, the Russians are Coming! Gotta love it.
Impeach! Some cancers take more than one procedure. Cut out the tumor, then, vote out the rest of the malignant cells. The tumor has to go first, it can’t be left to metastasize.
If the Democrats can remain disciplined (a big if), and convince blue collar Americans that they’ve got their backs covered, the 2020 election will be the natural laxative we need.
Until then I will be concerned about unstable financial markets and the spectre of Trump putting a 3rd judge on the Supreme Court should RBG leave us.
There should be only one consideration and that is time. What is the fastest way to clean him out and get rid of the stench?
I used to think that waiting for the election was the way to be rid of Trump. I did not want Pence, who at least knows what the heck he is doing, to occupy the WH.
We are still a week away from two years of the Trump fiasco. Look at what he has done to this country, what he has lined up for more disaster, what the federal employees are going through.
We can not take another two years of this. He might well "push the button," to assuage his juvenile, paranoid, narcissistic self.
You have not considered the third, and most likely possibility. As the Mueller investigation comes to a close, the pieces of the Trump/Russia debacle will fall into place. The Mueller report will prove so devastating to the nation and the Trump Organization and the Trump family that in the name of national security he will be offered and will take a plea in exchange for his resignation.
The results of the Mueller probe will be so damning that neither Trump nor his family will be left standing. His ties to Russia will only be overshadowed by the revelations of his total corruption.
We will be left with Mike Pence, a truly incompetent successor. But the real devastation to the Republican party will be seen when Rupert Murdoch, one of the guilty parties in this horrible sequence of events, abandons it, or what's left of it late next year as Fox is forced out of relevance by its loss of sponsors.
This will be a treacherous time for our republic and our democracy but we will learn much from this tremendously painful experience. And together we must then rebuild our future.
2
We cannot survive 2 more years of Trump! He has to go now!
I am hoping against hope that Mr. Trump will decide not to run in 2020 and bow out with as much grace as he can muster. If not, I hope the people decide not to bring him back. A democracy is only as good as the demos.
In the plus column for election you should also add the damage a 2020 Trump campaign would do to Senate and House races. Twenty-seven senators, as well as ten GOP senate candidates, and 435 sitting and potential Representatives would be compelled to bank their election, at least in part, on Trump's re-election. The electoral bloodbath might well wash over more than a few GOP senate seats as well as dozens of GOP congressional seats.
Until recently, Tomasky's views was mine as well, along with his reasoning about the likely wreckage wrought upon the Republican party.
But as we watch him spin out of control, less constrained by experienced advisors and increasingly surrounded by ideologues and acolytes, my worry over the damage he is capable of inflicting on the country in the remainder of his term conquers my fear of the impeachment process. And one can only imagine what impulses a soundly defeated, but still commander-in-chief Trump might give into after election day, 2020.
Even thought I can’t stand the thought of 2 more years with this ignorant and evil person in power supported by a Republican Party with no ethics, integrity, morals, etc. voting him out would be a less inflammatory way to get rid of him. But then he should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.
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@Bonnie Little
And perhaps not permitted to be a pundit for Fox news!
17
@Kate A better punishment would be to have him on stage with an audience of none. He can't stand being ignored, and that's exactly what the media should do right now.
Don't give him any more free air time, cutoff his microphone already.
The only thing he will grow into is already in place, the sewer he claimed he alone could drain, and the Republicans who run from the daylight.
15
@Bonnie Little, but if Trump is in the pocket of Russia, and the last election was won unfairly, then what makes any of us certain that the same thing wouldn't happen again in 2020? I'd take my chances on inflammatory impeachment. That's what it's there for.
14
Unless McConnell is willing to support conviction, impeachment is a futile exercise. Paint the GOP as wrong on the issues & let the voters decide.
2
Voting #45 out has as its advantages another Blue Wave to take the Senate and Executive branch; however, many things can go wrong creating another 4 years of Trumpism. I'm a gambler and take the greater risk with the greater reward.
If the GOP crumbled in the face of liberalism and we can get the Senate to look more like the House, I will enjoy living in this country again. Otherwise, while I am protected from Trumpism, too many are not and I do not want to live in a country where the weak are punished so the strong can increase the disparities of wealth.
1
Pence should be investigated and indicted too.
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Mr. Tomasky,
Majority of voters did say "NO" in 2016. Bigger problems than Trump are dated Electoral College aided by voting suppression and election district gerrymandering. Until those problems are fixed, nation runs the risk of losing presidencies to frenzied and misguided voters.
Besides, your logic about letting all republican senators support Trump in 2020 election is too deep for the republican base who saw Trump as their president in 2016 and voted for him.
Impeachment process -however painful and long -will restore faith in nation to convey that justice prevails and no one is beyond it
1
Why do Democrats always follow the temperate, middle of the road, appeasement approach? Should we always do the sensible, practical thing or maybe, once in a great while, do the right thing?
1
You forgot the third option: the 25th amendment. Failure to enact this or impeachment is a dereliction of duty by the cabinet and/or Congress. Trump is clearly unfit and poses a clear and present danger to the U.S. We cannot afford to wait two years with this psychotic at the helm.
6
@Kurt: the 25th Amendment assumes that a cabinet appointed by a president will rule the president incompetent, as if that judgment wouldn't reflect on themselves.
@Kurt
Every article written by INTELLIGENT sources cites Trump and his unhinged ramblings.
Oh tes, we hate to pull the trigger with the 25th Amendment, but it's got to be done.
Pet owners know how painful it is to have the pet put down. But it is kinder to be done in the long run.
Please, shall we just do it already?
1
The GOP will stand firmly behind DJT until the health of RBG is established.
1
Even if we know that spineless Republicans in the Senate will never convict, there is every reason for the Democrats in the House to document the disaster imposed and the numerous threats posed by this so-called president...the worst president ever. The fact that Republicans were willing to fund and follow a 6-year long investigation looking into everything the Clintons touched - just during Bill's tenure, not to mention their witch hunts going after Hillary - has to be countered in history with a real impeachment. An impeachment resulting from a "gotcha moment" from a dalliance between consenting adults is embarrassing enough! This treasonous, hateful, divisive waste of a presidency has shredded our democracy and trashed 200 years of diplomacy, ally building, and trade agreements. He is a true embarrassment that must be documented with articles of impeachment listing every egregious act!
2
Dump trump. Good name for a made for TV movie. The story line will have all the intrigues of a spy movie and how one person based his so-called leadership on more lies than anyone could possibly count. He has constantly run amok of the Constitution. He and his republican cohorts are destroying our country every day in every way. It boggles the mind how anyone could still support this person.
3
I'd say there's an even better chance he'll be physically arrested and removed from the White House at this point. We're beyond impeachment if he's the actual Manchurian Candidate.
3
It's the same old song. At some point, the liberal media and columnist need to accept the fact that Trump is here for the duration.
Should there be any horrific crime committed by an illegal alien (hopefully not), it will be paraded front and center during the 2020
Elections. We could have season 2 of Trump courtesy of the Democrats. They need only keep rolling the dice on the wall!
2
Another problem with impeachment is being stuck with Pence, the boot licker extraordinaire. I much prefer the ballot box followed by indictments.
1
I suggest tying him securely around the necks of all republicans running for any office in 2020. He is probably electoral gold for democrats and especially with the educated from the suburbs.
1
I tend to share Mr. Tomasky's sentiments, but it's awfully risky. The "Dear Leader" is very adept at ginning up a crowd and he has a very helpful enabler in Rupert Murdoch (who actually is Satan incarnate IMHO) and Fox "News". He makes me very nervous because he has no morals and is a coward and a bully and an expert demagogue. That is an evil and dangerous combination. I'm not sure how this ends, but not well, I suspect.
1
Michael Tomasky,
You're very cavalier about allowing a narcissistic psychopath who cannot help himself remain in charge of the most powerful military and nuclear arsenal on earth. I'm not. I wanted him out from day one. I want him out now. And I will not rest easy until he is in an orange jump suit.
3
The point made is valid, though, very regrettably, dropping the impeachment option when there is ample evidence of crimes and treason, and years yet to further infect the Oval Office, is like putting down the rolled-up newspaper when you see a cockroach on your kitchen counter, letting it crawl into the breadbox.
However he's discarded, it will be imperative to shutter his ignorant, foul mouth. Otherwise he'll just continue to spew invective and do all he possibly can to disrupt this nation.
2
There must have also been contact and collusion to head the GOP - (Grand ole party, oh dear)? I have seen some articles about how abusive and aggressive Trump attacked rival candidates, shockingly disrespectful behaviour, to get elected GOP candidate. Was there more to it? How are earnest Republicans not fully suspicious, shattered and mobilized by the apparent corruption of their representative POTUS - an ugly-minded racist perched to sell out America piece by piece.
America is getting slammed.
1
ITMF - now why wait.. they wouldn't
1
Impeachment is completely off the table. It requires the Senate, which is now more firmly in His Worship mode than before the Midterms. You can completely forget about that.
The 25th Amendment is also completely off the table since it requires his cabinet to sign off, the VP to sign off, AND it's subject to review and revocation. So, FORGET that one. I suggest reading it to find out why it can't and won't be applied to #traitor45.
Short of a full scale revolution, the ballot box is quite literally the sole way to remove the Chief Sociopath. In the meantime, the US will have lost its empire and fully (not partially, like right now) embraced a form of fascism based on a kakistocracy. The Republic will be rotted from within and a full 1/3 of the voting public is happy to be a part of that because they a) worship #traitor45 like a deity and b) share his mental illness.
I did NOT become a US Marine expecting a full 1/3 of the voting public to side with a known adversary. I will RELISH the full humiliation of those voters when #traitor45 is ousted from office. Before that tho, I expect him to completely trash our Republic.
It better be a majority. Due to the Electoral College, Democrats cannot win a Presidential election with a plurality. Not in 2000, not in 2016, not next time. That's the best argument for impeachment, in my view.
He represents a clear and present danger to our nation. His crimes are obvious to anyone not blinded by partisanship. Allowing him to remain unchecked in the most powerful job in the world risks calamity. Congress must do its duty to protect and defend our country, even if that enemy is the President.
As noted, his supporters will not accept ANY form of removal, so why should we wait while we try to get their acceptance? It will never come.
Impeach and convict NOW.
Can you really look to Clinton's impeachment as a precedent for what's going on here? Let's face it, Clinton was a popular president who was impeached for lying about oral sex. I can't see any way in which this compares.
2
". . . will say to Mr. Trump: Go home."
Instead, instead of that one, "go to prison--for life--you and your entire crime family."
(Plus about 35 other miscreants.)
2
@Archangelo Spumoni - Vote Trump out of office and he'll resign before the end of his term, allowing Pence to become President and pardon Trump and the others.
If subsequently convicted in a state court, Trump will abscond to someplace without an extradition treaty.
Either way, Trump et al will never see the inside of a jail.
By "Home", do you mean Russia?
3
An election is the only way.
Let Trump run wounded like a bull in the arena bleeding and raging from the the multiple little cuts inflicted before the matador enters the arena.
Let Trump be the head of the ballot across the country and have him drag down every Republican candidate listed.
Let his defeat be so humiliating that we never see him, his facilitators in Congress and his family in the public square ever again.
1
@Edward Blau - Tempting suggestion, but your use of the wounded bull metaphor has me imagining that same bull in a china shop. The damage, deliberate or not, that an increasingly wounded Trump would cause our country and the world is almost unimaginably horrifying.
How one copes with a traitor in spycraft is a curious thing. Take the way the Brits handled Kim Philby.
Alright with me if we let Trump ruin lives with his countless lies as long as they are Russian. Let them entertain him for the rest of his useless life.
Can you imagine what misery it is to listen to that man claim he wrote history? I'm still gassed out he told a man working to help veterans with Agent Orange exposure that it's really Napalm. Not that Napalm gave them their disorders, that AO IS Napalm. Trump doesn't know the difference and demanded all there agree he was correct. Same thing with HIV vs HPV! He's a walking disaster in the planning!
I'm sorry, but I'd have had to leave the meeting and immediately report his insanity to the VP. I'm not some Putin product waiting for a oil share to drop, Tea Pot!
The way to get Trump out of office is for him to resign. And the way to do that is to legitimately threaten himself, his family and and his businesses with severe legal penalties including prison time (assuming the evidence is there and warrants it.) If he resigns, he gets to keep his businesses and his family out of prison.
If he resigns on his own, his supporters will still claim he was forced out by "liberals", but they'll have a tough time getting upset enough to start a civil war.
If he's impeached, he and they will claim conspiracy. And if we wait until 2020, he might get us into a major war and he might just win again due to no changes in the electoral college process where winner takes all in most states and where voters in small states have a more powerful vote than winners in larger states; voting fraud by the Russians; voters prevented from voting; and idiot liberals who either stay home or vote third party, which is what cost Hillary the White House.
I thought the punishment for treason was a bit more severe.
There's also winding up with Pence: just as corrupt, just as up to his eyeballs as Trump, but even worse: a maladjusted Christian fascist who needs a chaperone to meet alone with a woman not his wife, an extremist who can disguise his extremism under his patina of oily civility, and a player who'll cut out the stupid tweeting and will cooperate with the other Republican criminals in their agenda of reducing Americans to serfs on behalf of their plutocrat owners.
Nope - throw Pence and the rest of the Republican Criminal organization out in the next election. All of them. And then: no more bipartisan nonsense: commissions, investigations, indictments, trials, convictions and JAIL for Republican liars, criminals and traitors. each and every one of them.
Every day America bleeds a bit more. Trump is a Cancer. Cancer needs to be removed ASAP. What concerns me as much are the malignant people who support this Cancer.
2
Vote him out. Then arrest him.
This OpEd is beyond belief! "let's presume"... "Let’s also assume"... "This is to say nothing of the instances of more banal forms of corruption Democrats may have unearthed".... "may have unearthed"??!!!! This all appears in the NYTimes? I'm rooting for Trump! He may exaggerate, he may even lie. But you lie AND you're unjust. Absolutely shameful!
1
You can try to kill the man but the truth will always be resurrected. Never be on the wrong side of history unless you like to lose!
We can't wait until 2020 unless we have a committee that puts Trump and his administration under watch and doesn't allow them to do anything.Look at the damage already done to the US and the entire globe by this group of corrupt, treasonous thugs.They all need to go ASAP.Are they ALL Russian assets??
Whatever way you chose to Dump Trump, I think it should come after he's inducted into the Kremlin Hall of Fame.
Trump is going to win in 2020!
MAGA
1
In a perfect world , if Mueller comes out with damning evidence of let’s say Russian cooperation to hack the DNC and more , we should impeach and certainly Republicans would be patriotic and convict him in the Senate .However , not only do we not live in a perfect world , we have a corrupt Republican Party who will most certainly be willing to empower Trump even if definitive proof is shown that he is an agent of Russia . They’ll twist the facts , vilify Mueller and do whatever they can to side with Trump over the country . For that reason, I’m hoping that we put every effort into electing a Democratic President and with any luck , flip the Senate . This is my dream .....
Even his ‘base’ has Trump fatigue. Maybe just exhile him to his overlord in Moscow.
Go home, then go to jail!
Trump should be impeached immediately for lying and lying and lying--he is a pathological liar. That alone makes him unfit for office, and a Congress that does not impeach such a moral failure should be voted out entirely.
1
The election is the way to clear the stink!
I don't want him to go home. I want him to go to jail. There, or maybe Moscow--to the waiting arms of his man-crush, Vladdy.
2
Trump is a cruel and dangerous person and he has no business being the President of the United States.
Listening to him talk it is obvious he is mentally deranged and a pathological liar. He should be removed from the office of President but I doubt it will happen. The Rich are doing fine and that is all that matters to Republicans.
1
The best case for waiting until 2020 to dump trump is that in January 2021, the orange clown king will be a private citizen subject to the laws of this country with no greedy republican president to pardon the criminal.
Kick the flim flam man out of office, indict the criminal, have a trial and put him and his criminal cabal in the pokey. Now that is justice.
There is no proof of an impeachable offense so stop with that already. Read the law of how high the bar is to impeach a president and you’ll see how silly these articles are. Educate yourself before letting your emotions run wild in an op-Ed.