Why don’t Senators Murkowski, Romney, and Susan Collins find one more Republican to stand with them and say they will join the Democrats ready to vote to reopen government?
Why don’t the Democrats and others demand—absolutely demand—that McConnell not stand in the way to get our government running again?
Why don’t they emphasize absolutely nothing presently endangers American safety as much as this shutdown?
The White House and McConnell are too spineless to even accept phone calls from the American public presently. It is completely shameful.
42
Watching a news report about how the shutdown is affecting airports and TSA workers, it dawns on me .... we're punishing the wrong people.
Congress needs to pass a bill (yeah--I admit the odds are long against it happening!) that says that Congressmen shall receive no pay for any quarter in which the gov't is shut down by any act for which they are in any way responsible. Ditto the White House.
Yes.... I'm aware that they're mostly millionaires, and their salaries don't actually matter to them. But it might make a difference, eventually....
27
The "most egregious humanitarian concern" has not been separating children from parents. The following humanitarian concern outweighs the separation concern: the murder of Spencer Golvach by Victor Reyes. His murder, and the murder of some others. I am grateful you point out a tall fence "can be effective." I urge you to avoid making fun of dumb arguments, or badly stated good arguments, and instead focus on the most important good argument. Tall fences and other changes are needed to limit the "most egregious humanitarian concern."
2
Lovely twist at the end....after all, he’s a billionaire, right? Right?
8
1. You make fun of the crisis but you do not list any numbers because its still very high. 200,000 people is a lot. Maybe its lower than other times in history but it should be because we have more technology.
2. heroin is at an all time high in this country for amount and purity. It is not coming across check points, its coming in the same places that the truckloads of women and children are being trafficked. There are hundreds of miles of these places. A wall will be a good start.
If anyone truly had the answer, someone would be able to solve the issue. Start with a wall and work backwards or forwards whichever your preference, but do something..
4
A better win-win (-win) approach ... Trump is negotiating far tougher with congress for wall financing than he ever did with Mexico. Sad. Let's budget him $10-20M to restart those talks and show off those Art Of The Deal diplomacy chops on the world stage. Making good on that promise, how could he ever veto that?
6
Insane narcissistic sociopaths rarely present cogent arguments. Trump is an insane narcissistic sociopath. Hence, Res Ipsa Loquitur.
21
The president thinks the 23-day partial closure of the US government is a win for him.
He doesn't care about the people. He only cares if he wins. It is all he has ever cared about.
After taking these people's lives, he is thinking of raiding the disaster relief money!
Her wants to be a dictator, and he needs to be stopped!
32
What's wrong with the Democrats? Trump has compromised, bigly, on one of his central demands regarding the wall.
He's not insisting that Mexico pay for it anymore...
13
The craziest Trump argument is that it is ok for the CEO of the nation to shut it down!
Even crazier, McConnell is too timid to get a veto overriding majority in the Senate to reopen the government.
Disgusting misbehavior by both men who are supposed to keep our government functioning.
30
Remember as a warning that Germany-at war with the West before 1914 , began to concoct stories and rumors , which circulated through the USA that Japanese imperial ,(Asian Yellow hordes! Eeeyah!), soldiers were in Mexico training the revolutionaries of that unhappy nation to make war on the Nortamericanos in order to take back those parts of Mexico we had expropriated. California, Arizona and much of the West once belonged to the Spanish and, thus, Mexico-that we managed to obtain a huge hunk was though backroom deals with Napoleon Bonaparte, who had, Trumplike-placed his brothers(he had more than a handful) on the thrones of the monarchies he was conquering. HIs son became the King of Rome, while still in Diapers.
In order to keep his wars in Europe going, the Emperor had the desert of Califoria as well as near desert in what we call "plains states" in the middle of America, sold to the new USA.
In the 20th century, to keep the USA out of it's war with Britain over possession of Europe-the Kaiser, whose single issue newspaper was printed in gold leaf ink and was carefully ironed, and his brain trust, realized that a war with Japan and Mexico would keep Americans too busy conquering jungles and dying of awful diseases. So, they stage managed all sorts of stories about yellow men with swords training Mexicans. Whatever the facts-we Americans made periodic incursions into Mexico and kept out of the existential war in Europe until 1917.
5
As an occasional visitor to the USA, Britain, and the EU, I've found that the USA's border controls are on a par with orther countries'. The US border is just as closed (or open) as pretty well everybody else's.
A "stronger border" doesn't mean more control at the border. It means more control within the country. But that implies more control over everybody, because you can't tell a native-born American from a foreigner just by looking. What's needed is some kind of universal ID card system, along with regulations to track everybody.
But I don't think a universal ID sytem will go over well in the USA.
5
China will be loooving this shutdown of USA government services! They've already told tourists not to go to USA as it's a dangerous place when the trade war started. NZ tourist income from Chinese expected to double before 2025. Only 9% of Chinese population have passports so Chinese tourists are the gift that keeps on giving to NZ. Our economy is booming and government busy building new diplomat offices worldwide. New one just opened in China that cost $50 million and we opened another one in Honolulu.
2
When the trumpican majority in the Senate decides
that enough is enough, if they ever do, then the irrelevance
and imbecility of their leader's arguments will be quickly
forgotten whenever possible (not that MSM would ever expedite that).
But this won't happen until vastly more pain is suffered on
the body politic, either in or outside its airports or because of
its food safety system vulnerabilities (e-coli are the ultimate
apolitical trolls).
Do not expect the contemporary version of the confederacy
to sign an armistice until such pain is too deep to bear within
their zones of partisan strength.
The analogies with the mid 19th century incremental descent into civil war are intriguing. Today, the analogy to the state of
being a slave is to be an "illegal immigrant" forever tarred
with a birth stigma, originating in skin tone and
country origin, and justifying thereafter no limit in state
retribution.
The analogue of slave bounty hunters are found in the ICE militia who spend enormous resources tracking
down 24/7 the contemporary runaway slave, aka an "illegal",
the "other" whose existence merits no civil rights. A difference here, is of course, that the runaway really wanted
to get as far away as possible, while the "illegal" only wants
to stay and work as a contemporary exploited worker
with as many rights as had the slave.
The analogue of slavery supporters today are those for whom the "other" must forever bear their birth stigma of "illegal".
6
Perhaps the wall can be paid for with all the financial settlements he'll have to make when Trump's multiple scams are exposed and prosecuted.
3
How long before we find 4 Republican senators of conscience who opt to not caucus with the other Republicans? Removing McConnell from the leadership role seems to be a necessary first step in bringing any bill to the floor of the senate in order to break this logjam. Nothing else is going to work. I am sure the democrats might even be willing to support one of the four breakaway Republican senators for the leadership position if it will lead to some resumption of business in the senate. May be I am just dreaming!
17
@SR
No, you are a realist about what patriotic leaders committed to America should be doing.
14
Yes, when examined closely, most Mr. Trump's arguments about the shutdown, which is based on the notion that building "the wall" is a national imperative, do not hold water. But all rational people agree that the idea of having a strong "border security" does. And that is apparently where his base is focused and that is why he may sound convincing to many.
So far the Democrats have shown that they are good at criticizing. They have used generalities such as "there are better ways of using billions of dollars to secure the border than building a wall", without being too specific about those "better ways". If they have been specific, then they must have been failed to communicate their ideas effectively to the general public as I, for one, have yet to know about them.
To counter Mr. Trump's assertions regarding the central role of "the wall" in border and national security, the Democrats need to table a detailed proposal of their own. They need to make clear how they intend to address the border security, in particular what they are going to put in place of "the wall." They need to show how much their "fence" is going to cost, what other security measures they intend to put in place, how effective they will be, and how the cost of their fence and measures compare with Mr. Trump's wall.
Without their own plan, the Democrats appear as a bunch of obstructionists whose only job is to impede Mr. Trump's every move, albeit a crazy one.
3
Regarding the, Wall, polls show increasing concern, among Democrats as well as Republicans, over the problems posed by increasing illegal immigration pressures, a problem well-known to other industrialized societies. Over the long term, Trump has a good chance of winning on this issue. Over the short term, Americans don't like government shutdowns, and whatever Trump is or isn't, most of the American media are hostile to him as exhibited daily in news stories that are really very biased, sometimes childishly so. This has been noticed; so we'll see how it plays out over the long term. Something else occurred to me: What is happening when a large part of a society daily seeks to destroy its elected leader? This is sabotaging your own governance. Will the results produce remorse in the ruins?
2
@John Corr
"What is happening when a large part of a society daily seeks to destroy its elected leader? This is sabotaging your own governance."
Please understand that a large part of our electorate feels that it's the other way around. That our "elected leader" is working to harm our society and sabotaging its governance.
36
@John Corr Remorse in the ruins? As if the ruins are the product of an unhappy public and not of the disastrous policies and deliberate actions of a totally unsuitable person sitting in the oval office. And most people are not debating whether border security is an issue, but whether a "wall" is a sane or effective means of dealing with it. But "increasing immigration pressures" are those created by a president who refuses to work with congress to allocate sufficient resources to the system to deal with the large number of refugees. (And we could go on and on about how US policies in Central America over the past century have created the problems that force thousands of innocent people to flee their homes. But taking responsibility really is not a big thing for most Americans, unless they are talking about OTHER people.) You really need to pay better attention.
15
@John Corr
What is happening here is that most of us Americans are becoming more angry by the day listening to our elected leader lie to us in public announcements, whipping up phony crises to alarm us, shutting down our government, so that our public service workers are thrown into unpaid limbo or must work unpaid, and ranting at us, while he works up the emotions of the few of us (his "base") who believe his lies and still support him, and he rages...at them...at us almost daily.
We have a Senate in Congress filled with representatives, (some who do NOT represent US) - like our President, they sometimes lie, and they represent their own interests. They may respond to the interests and demands of the top 1% of our income groups.. our "Elites". Ultimately, a nation state has ONE appointed political leader. The United States Congress does seem to govern by committee. But we have ONE leader -- that leader must be held accountable when our political system fails. Thus the efforts now being made by a great many of us to remove him, either by impeachment & trial, or by ousting him in the next election.
This is the logical consequence of a leader's failure to fulfill the Oath of Office (to respect and support our Constitution) that makes when elected, and it is the logical response to a leader's incompetency and/or his refusal to fulfill the role his office requires of him.
13
Besides being incompetent, Trump is cruel. No doubt with every bankruptcy many people were hurt from investors to contractors to employees. Yes, there is a humanitarian crisis at the border, but there is a humanitarian crisis for the country spreading from the Pacific to the Atlantic. Not only 800k employees are being affected. We must consider the whole family and the many other businesses which depend on these thousands of federal employees. We are likely talking at least 3-4 million Americans. And the pain goes beyond the financial anxiety. As children are emotionally impacted at the border, so too the children of furloughed workers hear the parents’ conversations and must deal with their fears.
If additional wall construction was so important Trump & the GOP should have funded it 2 years ago. If it is so criticial, then, yes, let the billionaire Trump make a down payment to immediately start construction. It’s not about needing more walls. It’s all about pleasing Rush and Coulter and a base of people apparently as cruel as Trump. This shutdown allowed by Trump and McConnell is wrong, harmful, and crazy.
268
@Rev Wayne
The wall is supported by experts at DHS, BB&P, ICE and local police Chiefs along border. And a more important story may be...
John Karl, ABC Chief WH correspondent shocked host George Stephanopoulos this AM, when responding to a NYT story on Trump being a Russian agent. Karl said: "My sources indicate when Mueller issues his final report it will be anti-climatic." He continued "these sources also indicate that there has not been any evidence of collusion nor obstruction."
Then when George asked him to comment on the WAPO story on Trump-Putin transcripts missing, Karl indicated "Trump has had many similar meetings with other world leaders, giving examples."Trump has a distrust for leakers so Karl dismissed any wrong doing, again surprising host Stephanopoulos.
This is the FIRST TIME I've heard a MSM correspondent make such a positive and declarative statement about Trumps future. It should be noted that Karl has the reputation of being a very objective and respected reporter and member of the WH press corp
@Frank Leibold
As to your first assertion only: never mind that Customs and Border Protection only requested $1.6 billion for securing the southwest border in its 2017-2019 request. See GAO analysis at link below (click pdf):
https://www.gao.gov/products/GAO-18-614
29
@Frank Leibold, The wall is only supported by people that could loose their jobs if they go against Trump and Trump's meeting with Putin was a private one with only the interpreters in the room.
26
I'm starting to think the border wall should not be the governments first priority but putting the American people first. Not a good look for a nation not to pay it's bills - USA can't declare bankruptcy like Trump business did. People won't forget about this at the next election and will remember what the the stress and humiliation not being able to pay their bills, did to them and their families. It's usually Russia that doesn't pay their bills - not America. Does the USA want to lose goodwill and trust in paying it's bills on time? I think not. There's more losses than money here - good reputations and credit ratings as well as not to mention all the tourism income you're loosing as a nation; keep it up though as USA loss is NZ's and other nations gain!
3
The craziest argument to me is that the shutdown is the Democrats' fault. The GOP had plenty of time to pass a budget while they controlled both houses. McConnell & Company probably wanted to delay passing a budget when they had the chance just so they could blame the Dems once they took control of the House.
294
Despite what the press and the pundits go on and on about, the fight over the wall isn't about the wall at all. And it is not about immigration either. It's about power. Trump thinks he has unlimited power to do anything he wants. Ms. Pelosi and the democrats are trying to teach him that they have power too. And they have a mandate to use it. Unfortunately, Trump's macho egotism makes it a fight to the death, so to speak, and never mind the collateral damage. My money is on Pelosi.
469
@Dick Windecker I think you're exactly right, but with this addition. Trump's power struggle is not only with Pelosi and the Dems but with McConnell and his minions. McConnell could easily step in, but he also wants Trump's power diminished. Remember the old political adage: why intervene when your adversary is destroying himself. Well, Trump explicitly took responsibility for the shut down. When he has to back down he will have lost a lot of power and leverage. McConnell will be there to scoop up much of it.
22
@lhc
It's hard to see that Leader McConnell wants Mr. Trump's power diminished when, by refusing to bring bills to the floor that he thinks will be vetoed, he's actually granting a pre-vote veto. He is helping Mr. Trump go around Congress and the appropriations process.
Surely there are better ways to diminish Mr. Trump's power than giving him more of it.
37
The lack of self-perception of people like Pompeo boggles the mind. How can anyone collaborating with taking 800,000 federal employees hostage make a serious case that other governments should not take US citizens hostage?
5
trump can pay for the wall from his personal account; and, then the US taxpayers can repay him just like he repaid the contractors who built his casinos.
11
Yes we know his reasoning is not reasonable and based on his own inner idea of reality. However the real questions are #1- Is there a border crisis? If so, how severe and how dangerous to us? If people want to come across illegally why do they? What are the various reasons they do this? What is the difference between illegals for jobs and asylum seekers? How should they be handled? What about the other borders including Canada? How severe is the problem at ports of entry? If we need protection what is the most effective, a wall? ,a modified type barrier? more border guard, more electronics? These are the questions that should be debated and studied not the ego motivated and political war that this has beome.
2
@RichardHead
Of course you're correct, but reasoned analysis is another endangered species the GOP doesn't care about protecting.
5
In recent elections, not voting is more popular than either voting for the Democratic or the Republican candidate. To balance reporting, therefore, NY Times pundits should at least consider the possibility that BOTH sides in a political debate are wrong, even if the two sides see complementary aspects of the problem.
In my opinion, Donald Trump is right that illegal immigration has demonstrated the US, through too much population growth. You can see the effects in the wide disparity between rich and poor. Nobody in the academy seems to be pursuing the impact of population growth on quality of life. It was not always so---Paul Ehrlich warned about the dangers of population growth in his book of 1968.
Trump is a terrible spokesperson for controlling illegal immigration. He uses inflammatory language. He doesn't engage in the nitty-gritty of designing policy. His policies are so superficial they fit on a placard---build the wall.
In reality there is another side to overpopulation. I visited Kenya some years ago and was impressed with a sight that occurred on Sunday mornings. All over the country, it seems, people were going to church, dressed in their finest attire.
Christians brought lower infant mortality rates. But they also brought misconceptions about birth control: Birth control is sinful and abortion is murder!
The population of Africa is slated to double by 2050. Hundreds of millions of Africans will die prematurely because of faulty beliefs.
@Jake Wagner It is hard to imagine how much damage one book can do. Over population is a myth. It is plain to everyone that once the economic benefits of having children declines, so does the birth rate. Japan sells more depends than diapers. The US is following that trend. And opioid addiction is further weakening our population. US lifespans are declining for the first time in history thanks to drugs and obesity.
If Texas had the same population density of New York, it could easily hold the entire population of the planet. Singapore has one of the highest population densities in the world and yet is on its way to complete self dependency. Clean air, healthy food, clean water and none of it imported.
4
Trump has been able to attack the Dems for two years because they had no power to fight back. Now that they do, he is in for a fight. And remember, Trump started this war because of despicable political pundits making fun of him. He had agreed to the same CR in December and then backed out. So, every investigation coming his was is on him.
5
That his supporters unflinchingly support him and his cocoon of lies still amazes me. In my earlier years, I gave others way too much credit for cognitive capacity. It is unlikely that many of those will ever recognize the con. Sad
7
The definition of insanity: Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. Ergo....Trump is nuts.
6
I'm sure that, if the Kaos King doesn't want to pay for it himself, he could ask the Russians or Saudis for some of the money they have promised him. They should be in the position to do him a favor now that they have gotten him into the White House.
2
I’d give the Prevaricator in Chief $10 billion for “border security” in trade for comprehensive immigration reform with an inviolable path to citizenship for dreamers and productive, law abiding illegal aliens. (To those who say “no amnesty “ tell that to all the employers who need these workers in an environment of 3.9% unemployment....)
I don’t care if you are bargaining with a gun to your head. I don’t care about blackmail. I don’t care about what was already offered.
Keep trying to make a good trade, and then get our precious federal employees back to work, before too many of them move on.
1
Number 5 was a hoot! I've never heard of a snake-oil salesmen tasting his tonic!
1
@Karl
Alternatively, just budget him $10-20M to restart Art of the Deal talks with Mexico. Show off diplomacy chops, restart government, fulfill promise, save money - it's win-win-win-win and would be very hard to veto.
Thank you Nicholas Kristof!
The media must do its part to thwart this lunatic President and make these your rebuttal to these Trump 5 craziest arguments the headline news at the beginning of each telecast.
And please more press on the ghoul who hates immigrants, Steven Miller, and is the evil architect of Trump's attacks on immigrants.
Mitch McConnell needs to be dragged out and forced to do his job as "Leader" of the Senate which has full constitutional power to override this nightmare Trump has forced on our nation.
5
Oh hi, I'm another snarky liberal. Walls are bad, ummkay. Did you know that since all of the drugs that come in to the U.S. don't come from unfenced portions of the border, that we might as well not stop them at all! Of course this is based on the fact that most - drug seizures - occur at ports of entry. I mean, can you imagine that more drugs are seized where there are people there to seize them than in unprotected areas? Hence there are no drugs coming in where nobody is looking for them (liberal logic). Instead we have absolutely horrible ports of entry where all of the drugs that make it in go undetected. And a $5.7bn investment in border security is too much. How can we fathom ever spending 1/1000th of the annual Federal budget on a long term investment to secure our country and keep people safe? And really, what's the point, people along the border don't want a wall anyway. We should really tear down the 750 miles of existing fence that bothers them, right? And illegal immigrants commit less crime according to some random study (of course those communities rarely self report, hence high rates of domestic violence). We can tackle crime rates by just letting more illegals in! Sure, absolute numbers of crimes will be way up, but we can bring the crime rate percentage down! Genius!! Cuomo and Newsome should get on this ASAP!
Great proposal to have Trump put his money where his mouth is.
But Mexico is already willing to pay for the wall, if Trump would only release his tax returns:
https://silverberg-on-meltdown-economics.blogspot.com/2019/01/mexican-president-amlo-to-trump-mr.html
Who was it said {Destroy us from the inside}..?
1
Actually, the wannabe Americans on the other side of the border would probably work really cheap. Since Trump is able to employ foreigners without papers, maybe instead of Mexico actually paying for the wall, we could pay Mexicans a few pesos per day to build it on their side. That way, the 5 billion for a useless project wouldn't go to some crony capitalist, and the job prospect would keep the terrorists and rapist from wanting to come.
1
While its more fun to imitate Mr. Kristof and just mock the president....we should be careful to observe that ALL politicians, left and right, are exagerating the facts and are contradicting themselves. ALL of them. .... including Mr. Kristof. Each of these people has an agenda to enlarge their own personal importance. Calm down and observe the reality..60% of the budget, the MANDATORY part, was approved on time in Sept 2018.....thats why the military is still on duty, why the Natl Debt is still serviced, and why everyone's SS check still shows up at the bank. The carefully orchestrated "partial shutdown" is of course, a farce, a political theater designed to ensure that each Senator gets his/her special boondoggle project approved.....all while blaming the President. Oh? I'm making this up? NO. The Budget is stalled at the SENATE.....not the Oval Office. You all are being fooled.......exactly as Pres. Trump has repeated endlessly while Mr. Kristof mocks him........
There is a SIMPLE explanation: Trump has dyslexia as does most of his Gullible Supporters. Their dyslexia is affected by having an abused/neglected childhood which results in lying or bullying as an accepted relationship or being a codependent believing Trump's con.
See www.trumphasdyslexia.com for the details and free online visual dyslexia test.
http://www.dyop.info/documents/Color_iPad/index.html
1
i‘ll never understand... how could such a crude and despicable person ever become president of the us in the first place? how can anyone take anything he says seriously? and why can checks & balances not prevent him from damaging his country and the world any better? trump openly admitted he dismissed his fbi director to get rid of „this russia story“... he even boasted about it to russian officials in the oval office. it is plain for everyone to see that he and his entourage are at the very least obstructing justice in every possible way. strong evidence has long been produced. what else must happen before the american congress stops this man from creating more chaos conflict division uncertainty and fear? i guess i am not the only one who is disgusted and sick & tired...
5
"It’s difficult to pick the craziest of the arguments that President Trump is making about the shutdown — there’s a vast buffet of imbecility to choose from — but here’s my good-faith effort." Nicholas Kristof, Jan 12, 2019
"[A] vast buffet of imbecility" indeed! (Great line)
Worse yet? Not alone imbecility, but we are paying the Potus Piper just as much 'for' his ignorance (to the extent that "ignorance" is not fully 'captured' by "imbecility"), dishonesty and evil (at least to the extent that an ignorant imbecile can be considered to have the knowledge or intent requisite to 'conviction' as an 'evil doer' and a liar).
2
The temptation to keep Trump in the news appears to be irresistable. Kristof offers nothing here that hasn't been hashed out six ways till Sunday in the Times as well as other newspapers and TV shows.
Please resist.
2
@dubiousraves
Amen!
'Excellent' plan Nick, given how boastful Trump has been about being a multi-billionaire, he should have no problem shouldering the cost of a beautiful wall, however stupid, and inefficient, it sounds, and is. For some reason (unreason, really), some 'lost and out of place' folks still believe that 'the wall' shall be paid by Mejico, when, all along, it was, and is, pure demogoguery. Can't we see this malevolent jester is a con man, so ignorant, and poor, that he is truly confused in thinking he 'knows more than the generals'? But the craziest thing is his utter incompetence since assaulting the presidency, the willful inability to listen to those in the 'know how'...those that could save us, and the country, from remaining the laughingstock of the world.
3
Mr. Kristof says Nancy Pelosi is wrong that a wall is immoral. True, a wall, like any inanimate object, is neither moral nor immoral. But the racist hostility towards Hispanics of Trump and his supporters is immoral. And the wall is a symbol of that racism.
7
John Karl ABC Chief WH correspondent, shocked This Week George Stephanopoulos when responding to a NYT story on Trump being a Russian agent. Karl said: "When Mueller issues his final report it will be anti-climatic." He continued "my sources indicate that there has not been any evidence of collusion nor obstruction."
Then when commenting on the WAPO story on Trump-Putin transcripts missing, Karl indicated "Trump has had many similar meetings with other world leaders." He downplayed any suggestion of wrong doing.
The wall has become a metaphor for the Trump presidency -- an irrational waste of taxpayer dollars built on fear-mongering and lies that will be an ineffective monument to a pathological ego and a rallying point for his racist, right-wing supporters and pundits.
4
While Mr. Kristof is right about everything he says about the wall, the fact that we are talking about it rather than our president being investigated for his being a shill for the Russians tells you everything you need to know about the wall and the associated shutdown.
3
How about a "fake wall" for a "fake crisis"? Dem's agree to let DJT claim he has a wall and not dispute a big, beautiful photo-shopped picture.
Everybody wins. Except truth - which has been MIA in this admin.
3
Donald Trump builds tall structures throughout the world, making sure his name TRUMP appears on them. His proposed wall is the same mindset, only horizontal and with no name.
"As for terrorists, experts say that there isn’t a single known case of a terrorist sneaking into the United States along unfenced areas o"f the southern border. Ever.
Till Trump spilled the beans...on the world stage. The guy who said he would never announce any US strategies or claim any weaknesses to our enemies. Yet he announced our sudden withdrawal from Syria and Afghanistan! While insisting our southern border is being over-run (when it isn't) all day long. 24/7. Inviting infiltration by claiming we have no control whatsoever of our southern border! When the opposite is true.
#5 is interesting. But do we really want Trump collecting interest on his loan when he's finally indicted? I mean...he'd rub our noses in it...and that is simply untenable. Plus, he's being paid enough for that down the street old Post Office hotel! I feel that and Mar A Lago are enough...
The Great Wheeler and Dealer has not reinvented the wheel, as promised, and made no deals...anyplace...as promised.
The wind in his bluster grows weaker everyday.
Pelosi and the Dems need to straighten their spines, and hold fast. The Art of the Deal is on their side! Use his playbook!
4
This wall is immoral, it is nothing but a symbol of Republican racism. There is no crisis on the border. The wall will stop nothing, haven't you people ever heard of tunnels, they are the latest and greatest in infrastructure developments, just ask Elon Musk.
3
Trump's arguments are by and large baloney, but so are Pelosi's. There is nothing immoral about a wall and years ago Pelosi voted to allocate money to a border barrier. Walls keep people out and keep people in. People have been building and climbing over walls for thousands of years. Our immigration system does need an overhaul and that's why walls have gates. The wall Trump is proposing will be neither effective nor cost effective. Yet, like the bully he is and that's the only negotiation tactic he knows, shutting down the government is absolutely unacceptable and this should be borne in mind when the 2020 election occurs. On national TV, Trump told Schumer and Pelosi that he would own the shutdown which he is now trying to blame on the Dems. What's particularly galling is that there was a deal on the table previously agreed to by Trump and Congress. That deal went out the window for Trump when Ann Coulter reamed Trump a new one. At this point, the GOP and the Dems are grandstanding and playing political games like the hack politicians they all are with no thought to the welfare of our country and its citizens.
@Mike
"Trump's arguments are by and large baloney, but so are Pelosi's."
What's baloney about insisting that Mr. Trump follow the same Constitutionally specified appropriations process as his predecessors?
2
First of all, research, and get your facts straight. Pelosi didn't vote for the fence in 2006. She thought it was a stupid waste of money then. After they had constructed some of it, they never voted any more money for it because everyone else decided it was a water off money too.
She has voted for lots of money for effective border security measures, not a WALL!
3
The real 'crisis" part of the situation is the administration's reprehensible handling of families applying for asylum and the "metering" of asylum applications at the border. Funding for a border wall will not have ANY timely beneficial impact on that part of the situation.
Even if you DO believe a wall would discourage these families from arriving at our border, border wall construction won't be completed for YEARS. In the meantime, families will continue arriving even if there is only a small chance they might escape desperate situations in their countries of origin.
5
What they should put that money towards, is immigration court judges, and fixing the broken system that has people waiting for years until their asylum case is heard.
2
As much as I don't want a wall on our southern border I think your suggestion is a good idea; after all Trump said he was worth $8 Billion, oh no, $10 billion (a week later on the campaign)! So, for the Donald to come up with a mere $5.7 billion should not be a big deal. And, as you say, the USA will pay him back with interest. What a great idea! If you can't trust the US, well, who can you trust?
I think Chuck and Nancy should propose this in the next bill to get government back to work.
6
@JEH Excellent idea.
1
Wonderful op-ed! You have a real solution to this vexed Government Shutdown. This is a win-win all the way around. Republicans don't lose face, the Democrats can open the Government for business without payment for the wall and above all, Trump get's his precious wall! The only problem seems to be - does Trump have $5.7 billion or even $5.7 million for that matter?
3
And don't forget the argument, that Trump and the Republicans have owned government for 2 years and done nothing about a wall. Why is it an emergency now, when it wasn't an emergency then?
14
Neither the evidence required for Presidential impeachment nor the votes are there - yet. That's mostly because Republicans have no backbone; even those who are uncomfortable with Trump, who know he's in the wrong on issue after issue, won't cross him.
Meanwhile, another possibility is Congressional censure. A simple motion of disapproval would constitute a lower bar and might garner support among Republicans who wouldn't vote for impeachment.
It would have value only if it was bipartisan.
4
I doubt Trump has 5.7 billion.
5
@Caded
Maybe, instead, he should be required to personally pay the salaries of all the government workers who are currently struggling to pay their bills while their paychecks are stopped. And "personally means pay them with his own money, not with other people's money, stolen from he Trump foundation.
3
If Trump really wanted to stop illegal immigration on out southern border, He would order the FBI to investigate and arrest every single business owner.CEO who hires an illegal immigrant. It's simple if there were no jobs for the illegals, they would not come. Instead of siccing the FBI on the owners, Trump, Trump and the Republicans have refused to budget any money for that purpose.
4
@Jeff Many of these immigrants are coming to find safety from the instability of their governments. Over many years, the US has been complicit in that instability, often to favor US companies exploiting whatever industry they can.
3
@Jeff Some truth but in 2000 there were 2 million crossings and last year 400,000 a 80% decrease. Also, like it or not ,we are dependent on immigrants for workers. Last year 40% of the total work force and 30% of small business started by immigrants. Most agriculture work by immigrants.This will increase in the future as our population cannot supply these workers. Many of our unskilled types are addicts and do not work.
4
At his weakest moment, when he was most in danger of being questioned or even impeached , Trump has managed to bully and blackmail the whole nation by stealing the political process.
There is not even any analysis of how he could technically do it or why it continues be this way in one of the most advanced political systems in the world .Probably because of that obsolete British bipartisan chamber game .This cannot be in modern times where large parts of the budget an people depending from it are at stake.And everybody, opinion columnists ( what is that genre of old philosophies about guys standing in the middle of a park vocifering ideas by pointing the sky ? ), everybody throws his comment about where to place the wall, its length, repeating the rethorics of the preacher in chief to confront it to truth .As if there was one. The human idea of politics is lost .Families go without money, others without a roof .Just the game of the riches twisting each others arms stay while they enjoy the perverse power they enforce on the plebs .
3
He’s been shooting his mouth off for so long he figured he could get away with anything.
But that meeting with Chuck and Nancy got the better of him and he declared that he’d shut it down, if he didn’t get what he wanted.
You boxed yourself in Donald and you weren’t planning on Coulter and Limbaugh to jump you
.
And he thinks his base is loyal?
They’ll turn on you in a minute.
Some deal maker he is.
6
@RFleig
I, for one, would like to see the factual numbers on just how big - or small - Trump's "base" really is. I suspect that it's smaller than the number of federal workers currently not getting paid (less than 800,000). And Trump is tearing this country apart for THEIR benefit?!?!
3
@T3D
Most powerful imaginary friends in history.
I agree with you, but so far, only on the basis of Wisconistani paranoia (i.e., dark musings that the actual vote totals were cooked).
Every high school drama teacher knows about "cast multipliers", and the same principle has been applied before, to different ends, in U.S. history. Look at Grierson's Raid in our Civil War (students of which have already interrupted to observe that Col. Benjamin Grierson had, in fact, been a high school drama teacher.)
The craziest is border security. How does one secure the border and not get paid?
1
Why not build the wall -- of solar panels. This would give Trump his wall and give the USA AND Mexico (and may be Latin America) energy for free
5
I can't wait for the Democrats, who care about America and Americans, to once again clean up the mess the Republicans have made. By now it should be clear to anyone that Republicans are greedy, hateful people who do nothing useful or helpful; they just manipulate the weak-minded for their own benefit. What good has any Republican in Congress done in the last 40 years? Seriously. Has any of them done anything for the public good?
11
To use his own money, I believe, would be a first. That's what investors and other suckers (taxpayers) are for.
3
The Wall is absolutely necessary, just not on the US-Mexican border. It needs to be in Washington to keep those darned Democrats out. That's where Donnie wants his beautiful wall. He's just a little confused geographically.
2
Here's another crazy argument. If there really is a "crisis" on the border, then surely you need all the resources Government can bring to solve the crisis. Most especially, the Dept. of Homeland Security. Therefore, to close the Government now makes absolutely no sense. It's an oxymoron. Forget the oxy, it's moronic.
8
In this issue of the Times your colleague, Frank Bruni, asks if the media will again be a Trump accomplice.
Stating that Speaker Pelosi was wrong to describe Trump's wall as 'an immorality' is a step in that direction. It is an sign that even when faced with the disaster that is Trump, the press still finds reason to provide a false equivalency. The wall is immoral.
False equivalency was rampant during the presidential campaign and after and certainly did not serve the public. Instead it softened and helped hide the 'pathetic inadequacy' and 'insidious stupidity' of Donald Trump.
Trump is doing great damage to this country with the eager assistance of Congressional Republicans.
The media must not continue to be complicit. Allow Trump's lying vulgarity and ignorance to speak for itself, and let the public understand the danger this man brings to all of us.
9
Sad that a portion of America believes anything the President says, and accept as real the argument that a northbound flow of criminals and drugdealers has escalated, when facts speak otherwise.
But its frightening that the GOP , with only a few exceptions, will call not him out on his lies, exagerations and fake news. Its like the Wizard of Oz come to life... no brain, no spine , no heart.
7
Kristof has a brilliant idea. Trump loves to invest in BIG projects. Let him borrow the money from his Russian oligarch friends (I'm sure Putin would be happy to front him the money). He can start his wall and the US will pay him back at junk bond rates. The only stipulation is that the repayment money MUST come from Mexico. Problem solved.
Let's see how the Russian mafia responds to being stiffed by Trump.
4
Reading another article I see that he was asked if he is a Russian agent. He didn’t answer, but he said it was « the most insulting thing that I have ever been asked ».
I am one of the few that does not think he is working for the Russians.
But if that guy was insulted by anything anyone said, that’s terrific news.
What about the reports that Melania was working as an « escort girl » before she met him ? Is he insulted by that ?
Certainly she married him for money. So that is kind of prostitution already. And if she says that she didn’t marry him for money, she is either a liar or delusional, or both.
6
While the Republican Senate sits idle in abdication of their Constitutional role, worried more about political survival it is, perhaps, useful to recall gatherings in the USSR where no one dared stop laughing when Stalin made a joke fearing the GULAG. Now instead of imprisonment in the Siberian wastes its a Tweet or a primary. This is why millions are affected by a toddler president and the search for a pacifier for Donald J. Trump. Are this no adults left? A veto-proof budget or continuing resolution is possible as evident from past votes.
8
Build the wall. Open the government.
@Mike A temporary wall around the White House until we get rid of the electoral college president works for me.
4
Time’s magazine Washington bureau chief Michael Scherer did an interview; https://www.politico.com/story/2017/03/trump-time-interview-truth-236404
“I’m a very instinctual person, but my instinct turns out to be right. I tend to be right. I’m an instinctual person, I happen to be a person that knows how life works.”
In part, Djt is correct. He had a instinctive knack for sniffing out the cynical and pessimistic mood that permeates a population, found one which the GOP already owned, capitalize on it, and repeatedly spoke openly about the issues with the vigorous bravado of a con-man;
Economic frustration resulting in class anxiety for too many Americans had been left behind.
Cultural fears because the Hispanic population, amoung others is rising to a more central place in our society, and all due to illegal immigration.
These two issues he tied together like a beautiful gift.
This wall of his was the promise he made that would be the beginning of making "America Great Again". It worked for Attitude vs Aptitude won him the seat.
He has absolutley no intention of stopping this malevolent shut-down. He can't.
The closing statement of the Politico article speaks to the true character of this president We the People and our Constitutional Republic continue to be victimized by;
Trump said as the interview ended. “Hey look, in the meantime, I guess, I can’t be doing so badly, because I’m president, and you’re not. You know.”
6
Proponents of the wall -- even those who oppose it in principle but argue we should just give it to Trump to get over the shutdown -- forget some borderland facts. In Arizona, a long stretch of the border belongs to the Tohono O'odham, a sovereign indigenous nation. Long before Anglos arrived and drew this line in the sand, they saw as their ancestral homeland the territory on both sides, and moved back and forth freely to celebrate religious ceremonies and collect food. They do not want a wall, and it is far from clear to me that the federal government could force a wall on them.
Wildlife also moves cross-border all the time. In Organ Pipe National Monument there is a major water-source literally just a few feet north of the border on which all kinds of wildlife depend. The wall would cut off access and so cause major environmental damage.
As far as I can see most border wall fanatics are completely ignorant about border realities. There is a great irony here. Conservatives often rail against the federal government for telling people how to run their own lives. Yet on the wall, they willfully erase the experiences of people who know the borderlands, because the reality clashes with their exclusionist fantasies.
15
@Gary
There has been little debate ver the ownership - in this case also the sovereign rights over the land where the wall would go.
And the only reference I have seen to wildlife impacts have been from other readers. In a time when we are losing multiple species, we can't afford to make it harder for non-human species to survive
7
Wonderful solutions to funding the Trump Wall!
Solution 1: Trump who is such a savvy, brilliant business man can build his own wall, putting the money up front on a secure scam (oops, I mean investment), getting tremendous returns, many times the cost of the wall, from Mexico.
Mr. Kristof, you have provided a great solution.
I believe Chuck and Nancy would give their approval on this solution.
Now it's time for the man with the big brain, the one who claims only he can solve America's problems, the one who claims to have written the art of the deal; yes, it is time for Donaldo the Clown to invest in America's security, to save us from the invading terrorist hordes and build his own wall.
Or,
Solution 2: Chuck and Nancy can offer to fund $5.7 billion for the Trump Wall in exchange for retroactively raising the tax rate on millionaires to 90 percent on income any and all over $300,000 effective 1999, plus immediate citizenship for DACA and the immediate resignation of Addison M. McConnell.
Well Donaldo...what's it going to be? 1 or 2?
Or, no solution at all. You prove to your zombie base that you really don't want a solution to a problem only you created, you just want to fill people with fear and hatred while robbing the American taxpayer.
9
I really see why we don't just turn the government over to the super brains at Fox News. You should watch it some time. There isn't anything they don't know ALL about and they only tell the TRUTH (they will tell you that frequently in case you forget). They help our leader by identifying our bad guys and impure thoughts and mostly help focusing him on what he said or promised which is quite an immense chore. Without their approval nothing will get done, so why bother even watching another network? And don't you believe one word about that bad sexual stuff that supposedly happened at Fox - it was all made up by Marxists from the Post and Times. All of their current perky gal news warblers are safe, secure and ready to diss everything that moves leftward. The challenge of constantly being a better news source than The National Enquirer is tough but somebody has to do it.
6
First there is no crisis, merely people that want to live in a country where they will be safe, so they're asking for asylum.
Second a wall can be and has been tunneled under so lets use current technology to monitor the border, less cost and more effective.
Third yes it is a humanitarian issue, so lets not separate families that are only looking for a better life.
Fourth the president is not the king, although he thinks he is, and if he had ever studied the history of this country he would understand what the founding fathers were trying to accomplish.
Fifth Mexico will not ever pay for the wall.
Lastly Trump's action and tweets truly reflect the workings of a sick mind and this is what we have running the country.
10
If Trump were smart--which he is not--he could have claimed a month or so ago that his administration had already eliminated the need for a wall. Apparently, no one on Fox had suggested this so it didn't "occur" to him. His voters will believe anything--no matter how absurd--he says so he probably could have slithered past with this lie.
5
Let's be perfectly honest here; this is not about a wall. It is not about criminals and drug dealers and it is not about people seeking asylum. It is about what we want our country to look like twenty or 30 years down the road. We can look at it in two ways. On the one hand, Trump is pandering to his base by tapping into a racist undercurrent. On the other hand Democrats are really arguing for uncontrolled immigration from Central America hoping to establish a permanent majority by demographic change and to reduce the power of the dominant Anglo culture. That tension is what is sustaining the stalemate.
1
What congress needs to do immediately is clear, simple and just as legal as the President's plan:
1. Declare Trump and his presidency a disaster and an emergency.
2. Build a wall around him and make him pay for it.
10
The WHO (World Health Organization) estimates that as many as 1.5 million children die every year from vaccine-preventable diseases. According to the price list on the Unicef website, "just" one billion dollars (1/6 of what Trump is demanding for his wall) could buy 100 million (100,000,000) doses of:
DPT (diphtheria, tetanus, pertussis) vaccine ($25 million),
MMR (measles, mumps, rubella) vaccine ($129 million,)
Hepatitis B vaccine ($30 million),
yellow fever vaccine ($100 million),
Rotavirus vaccine ($320 million)
AND
100 million insecticide-treated (ITN) bed nets for malaria prevention ($200 million)
AND
2 billion Ready-to-Use Therapeutic Food (RUTF) packets for malnourished children ($140 million)
There’s really not much else to say. . .
5
Since Trump says the very people he has put out of work are all behind him and want the wall, perhaps someone could set up a site where the affected Federal workers can vote and comment on how they feel about being jobless and supporting his whims. Facts are fun!
5
Trump's only concern is Trump. This is nothing less than a vanity wall, something he can put his name on that he thinks will last for near eternity. Trump is creating his own "reality" TV show, with strong emphasis on "his reality". His constant lies are insufferable. He has been allowed to reduce this country to a laughing stock, and it seems there's no end in sight. Some say they are optimistic we will survive intact, that is with a healthy functioning government while being true to our highest ideals. I'm not nearly so optimistic. Our system is broken, and the fact that DT is still in the Oval Office is proof. The Republican Party is deplorable, with it's members failing to honor their oaths to preserve and protect the Constitution, and thereby the country. It makes me shudder to think what the next two years will bring.
5
The inability to get congressional approval to fund building the Trump Wall is the excuse given for the Trump Shutdown and thousands of people – ranging from unpaid government workers to desperate Hispanic families seeking asylum from oppressive Central American regimes and gangs – have been harmed.
Therefore, this is very serious business. The fact that we laugh at the ineptitude and dishonesty of Donald Trump does not mean we lack respect and empathy for the people, especially the children, whom this desperate, selfish president is hurting.
Just the opposite. By making fun of Trump, we hope to dissuade him from this reckless course and to persuade Republican leaders like Mitch McConnell to stand up to Il Duce.
It appears that Donald Trump, watching approval for his Wall Wailing dwindle to around 20% of Americans, is more afraid that if he backs down, dead-enders like Rush Limbaugh and Ann Coulter – and maybe even his senior advisor, Sean Hannity -- will criticize him harshly in the right-wing media.
Courage was never a strong attribute of Bonespur Boy.
4
Luckily, Mexico is paying "many times over" for a "big, beautiful wall" that will never be built.
3
I have read of some German functionary during World War I. Turning to a colleague with a sigh, putting the question: "How did all this come about?"
The colleague replied with another sigh, "Ach--if only one could say!"
This quote (I have read) haunted the imagination of President Kennedy. As he considered the possibility of nuclear war.
I echo the President's reaction. JFK's reaction , I mean--not the guy we've got now.
The guy we've got now.
Dear Lord, how ever did we find ourselves STUCK with this guy? With this horrendous idiocy of a wall? With Mr. Trump's unspeakable "base" calling the shots in the federal government? With an inert U.S. Senate and a Senate Majority Leader that wrote the book on inertia?
You see what I'm getting at, Mr. Kristof. All your five points are indubitable. Undeniable. Waterproof.
But it's like preaching gun control to the NRA. That is, to the fanatical spirits that (right now) control the NRA.
All arguments (be they never so sound) are simply wasted upon some people.
Explore the hearts and minds of some people--
--and you find yourself in a deep, dark place. The sunlight of reason never penetrates that place--the swamps and jungles amid which they live. Which is why, Mr. Kristof--
--we ALL find ourselves in that place right now--
--a deep dark place. And like that hapless German functionary a century ago, we find ourselves murmuring,
"How did all this come about?"
4
The payment schedule will begin 90 days after the last (insert building material here) is laid 150 feet into the Gulf of Mexico.
Harrah's Reno Book has the under/over at 3years/when Pinky's thumbs are embalmed. I've got thumbs.
Ann Coulter and Rush Limbaugh must be thrilled that Donald is toeing their line.
Now watch his poll numbers dive.
1
5.7B is not the cost of the wall. Who told you it was? That is just to get his foot in the door. It's hard to understand why Trumps supporters think 5.7B is the total the wall would cost, or that 5.7B would make a difference on the border.
Here is a link to an article of the total cost for Trumps wall from Fox News recommending NOT to build the wall. https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/trumps-border-wall-how-much-it-will-actually-cost-according-to-a-statistician
1
I doubt Trump could raise $5 billion without going to his Russian masters. How about doing this like other projects: sell bricks to individual donors. They'll be repaid with interest when Mexico pays for the wall many times over. Just like buying stock. Start with Lindsay Graham as the first investor. Go ahead, Lindsay, put your money where your mouth is...
4
Besides how do you solve a "humanitarian" crisis by building a wall? Don't you try to help (with food, shelter, and medical aid) the humans involved?
4
Maybe all supporters of the wall can start leaving bags of concrete and steel slats on the White House lawn so the construction can begin post-haste.
3
The operative word is crazy, and the U.S. government can provide assistance: The National Institute of Mental Health (NIMH). Perhaps Trump can participate in a clinical trial for the betterment of our nation.
2
one objection: House Speaker Nancy Pelosi was wrong to describe a wall as “an immorality.”
To many people, the wall -- like the Confederate flag -- is a symbol of white supremacy, xenophobic paranoia and racism.
There is no way to accept just a little of that argument. The wall is immoral.
5
I think I now understand Pelosi calling the wall an "immorality" -- not that it's immoral to have an organized immigration system, but rather that it's immoral to spend this amount of money on a wall that solves virtually no problem vis a vis immigration, and uses up funds that could be used to solve so many other problems (or just remain in taxpayers' hands).
6
@Treetop: All these Trump fakes, including Pompeo, are simply inviting somebody, anybody, to conduct some kind of sensational terrorist operation over the Mexican border. They are the wold's most despicable provocateurs.
1
Two observations.
1. Rob Portman (R-Ohio) suggested putting $25b in a trust fund for "enhancing border security" (WaPo, Rubin). What I like about the concept is that the money is simply earmarked for border security. Chances are, actually building a wall would be held up in courts for years with eminent domain cases - easily more than six years :-).
2. Enough with the wall. If legislators - or McConnell - cannot do the job they were elected to do, then tell them to move out of the way.
Put it on a National ballot and we can do their job for them.
Let’s put the Wall, Healthcare, DACA, Gerrymandering, Voting process and suppression, etc. on a national ballot and let the country decide!
16
@LivingWithInterest
The country decided in the mid terms.
2
As long as its not based on an electoral college.....
2
@LivingWithInterest: Until the idiots in Washington elicit a terror attack across the Mexican border, it is hard to put the wall at the very top of US priorities.
The Propaganda arm of the Trump administration FOX are dictating the message. And the guppies are sucking it up like wonder bread in water. The Dems messaging needs to be like wet dough. They need to drill home the message “he said Mexico was going to pay for it” that’s it! Align and disseminate! Again and again! Anything longer than 9 words looses!
7
Solution is so simple I'm surprised I haven't seen it mentioned anywhere yet: corporate sponsorship. Naming rights. Ad placement. Etc.
We've got it all over the place on public funded sports stadiums, so why not "critical" security infrastructure?
I mean, we all know that "The Wall" will do nothing to actually stem the flow of illegal immigrants, and it will help companies who are getting rich off paying the "undocumented" under the table to both pretend they are working against the problem... AND help migrants passing the wall figure out who might be willing to hire them.
6
Another proposal: since Mexico is going to pay for the wall, let's just let them supervise the construction too. We can just sit back and watch them build it. Alternatively, we can build it bit by bit as the payments from Mexico come in.
2
A variation on Nick's proposal - a millionaire/billionaire/financial transaction tax, that would be used to finance not just the useless wall, but a Green New Deal.
That would be a compromise I could live with.
7
Lets assume that the southern border wall would stop 1,000 from crossing the border per year. Maybe I being too generous in saying 1000 or maybe too low, but someone probably has a reasonable estimate.
Well at $5.7 billion that is $5.7 million per person.
Lets see, if it stops 100,000 then the figure is $57,000 per person.
The question comes down to is that money well spent, or should it go to internal infrastructure that is crumbling.
Just my 2 cents worth!
11
@AL We could use the same calculation in Afghanistan. Or in Vietnam, long ago.
Mitch McConnell, leader of the U.S. Senate should allow a vote by the Senate to fund the government. Right now we have no freedom and no democracy. This is like a family member hiding the TV remote unless they get to watch the shows they want.
20
This has become a tragedy at many levels. As NYT has noted, Federal workers are going without pay, with risk to defaults on loans, inability to pay medical expenses and also getting the insulting message that they just don't matter in any of this. Contractors are going unpaid, placing their businesses and workers at risk (sadly nothing new for a Trump run organization). And it is hard to imagine that working for the Federal government will be considered attractive in a world in which your paycheck may be held hostage to political squabbling, which affects the long term health of government.
It is important to acknowledge that border security is a genuine public safety need. Criminals do sometimes cross the border (at NYC airports as well as the Southwest desert) and asking border communities to handle large numbers of destitute immigrants with no visible means of support constitutes a crisis for these communities. But "the wall" has become a symbol of racism that does not solve these problems.
My suggestion:
A bipartisan commission on border security to develop a series of facts everyone can agree on and written recommendations.
A deadline for Trump to sign legislation funding the government (? 30 days), after which he would be impeached.
The point needs to be made that shutting down government over a policy disagreement is dangerous and that Trump's behavior is not just theater, but a genuine assault on the US government.
13
@ACA
It's almost like 2008 all over again.
It is difficult to rebut all five of Kristof’s arguments in the space permitted, but:
The number of people apprehend at the border is an emergency because the majority are no longer Mexicans who can be returned immediately to Mexico. The are mostly Central Americans who have overwhelmed the detention system and have to be released with notifications to appear at hearings set years in the future.
(2) Most new illegal immigrants are persons who overstay their visas, but this simply means we have two emergencies to deal with, not one.
(3) The Trump administration does not have a policy of separating migrants children from their parents. It separates migrant children from parents held in custody only to comply with.a federal court order issued in 2015.
(4) The president has not declared a national emergency as a way of funding the border wall.
(5) Trump declared in 2016 he would make Mexico pay for the wall. The unkept campaign promise is a good reason not to vote for Trump in 2020, but it is not an argument for not funding a border wall.
11
@William Case
A long list does not necessarily mean you have a good rebuttal. I think you are trying to be genuine. So in your own style:
1. Read in the dictionary what the definition of emergency is. Then compare the number of people crossing the border that comply with you condition 1 and 2. If this hasn't changing significantly it is not an emergency.
2. Your point three is completely disingenuous. Why don't you look up what the law is and ask whether the Trump administration or all previous administrations are better complying. A hint: if they were complying why would they be told by the courts that they need to stop their policy.
3. Point 5 and your whole premise assumes that a wall will help and that there is no wall there. Do you realize there is all ready a wall along a lot of our border. Wall was already but up in sections where it makes sense to have a wall. So the real question is whether a "NEW" wall will actually help, i.e. are there any of the spots where we don't have a wall where one is need. It would be great to see evidence from an agency that looks at this that suggests a wall is useful; everything I has seen says we don't need a new wall.
The point of making an argument is to convince someone else of your view. The point is to collectively try to figure out the "truth". I often read Fox News and other sources to make sure I'm not missing an important argument that could change my views. I suggest you also try to really absorb other arguments.
89
@William Case
Pt. 1 seems to refer to asylum seekers. If so, my understanding is that a wall won't help. On their arrival at a port of entry, and upon passing a credible fear interview, they can stay in the country (usually in detention) until an asylum hearing.
32
@Mike
The National Emergency Act—not Webster’s Dictionary—authorizes presidents to declare a “national emergency.” Some presidents have declared dozens of national emergencies. Sometimes, a single forest fire justifies the declaration of a national emergency. The tsunami of illegal immigrants has far greater consequence than a single forest fire.
The Border Patrol, which should know, says the existing portions of the wall reduces illegal immigration. In the 1990s and 1990s, I sometimes had to serve to avoid illegal immigrants crossing I-10 on foot near downtown El Paso, sometimes with children in tow. The border wall ended that hazard.
I watch CNN, NBC and ABC and only occasionally Fox News. I also subscribe to the digital editions of the New York Times, Washington Post and Wall Street Journal. This is how I know that in 2015, Judge Dolly Gee off the U.S. District Court for the Central District of California ruled that accompanied children apprehended along with their parents at the border must be treated the same as unaccompanied children apprehended at the border, They cannot be held in custody with their parents, but must be released to centers operated by the Department of Health and Human Resources. The “child separation policy” is not a Trump administration policy; it is Judge Gee’s policy. Her ruling is the reason—the only reason—migrant children are separated from their parents.
5
I am saddened as I watch, not the now, historic government WALL shutdown, but the historic collapse of the great American democratic society in real time, so quickly. Each new daily appalling episode is like watching the descent in slow motion. Everyday we slide further down the 3rd world slope, images of banana republics come to mind, but it is the speed that is most amazing.
164
@Chopwood Carrywater
Trouble is that trump's supporters are incapable of realizing this. They are so confused with all the lies he has spouted that they can't realize the danger we are in. Trump is determined to make America an autocracy - you do what I say or else .......
37
You saved the best for last. Unfortunately, all of Trumps liquidity is tied up in debt. He may be the poorest billionaire in history. He's certainly one of the most publicly ignorant.
143
@gd
Ignorant enough to become POTUS.
John Karl, ABC Chief WH correspondent, shocked "This Week" host George Stephanopoulos this AM, when responding to a NYT story on Trump being a Russian agent. Karl said: "My sources indicate when Mueller issues his final report it will be anti-climatic." He continued "these sources also indicate that there has not been any evidence of collusion nor obstruction."
Then when George asked him to comment on the WAPO story on Trump-Putin transcripts missing, Karl indicated "Trump has had many similar meetings with other world leaders, giving examples."Trump has a distrust for leakers so Karl dismissed any wrong doing, again surprising host Stephanopoulos.
This is the FIRST TIME I've heard a MSM correspondent make such a positive and declarative statement about Trumps future. It should be noted that Karl has the reputation of being a very objective and respected reporter and member of the WH press corps.
Pretty soon, Americans may start heading for Mexico in the same way that East Germans headed for West Germany, back in the day. Or for Canada, which actually has a functioning government.
So the debate about the wall might move into previously uncharted territory.
57
@Global Charm Neither Mexico nor Canada will take us, I suspect.
6
@Global Charm There are already over 300,000 of us living in Mexico, and I am one of them. I've been made to feel welcome every day in small ways and large. That's a far cry from how they are greeted in the US. Yet, they still come north to spend money. If you are in any doubt, drive around the shopping centers of Tucson any weekend. A quick license plate survey in parking lots prove that they come to spend money.
12
@Maloyo Wrong. Mexico is happy to have Americans and welcomes them. More importantly life in Mexico is far more relaxed, pleasant and friendly than the US with better weather and much lower prices, and those enough who love here generally feel blessed. We also laugh at those who think it is dangerous here. The US is much more dangerous except in a few isolated areas.
7
When the USA won the Mexican-American War in 1848, security at the southern border was casual.
After all, the border ran through the middle of private land and cities like Nogales. For many Mexicans who stayed right where they were after the war, the border crossed over them, changing them into American citizens without them migrating anywhere. Many Mexican people had family on both sides of the border and continued to visit as they always had.
When I was a kid in the sixties, no one needed a passport to visit Mexico. Crossing into Mexico felt no different from crossing from California to Arizona; inspection was cursory.
Security was casual because a) This was the West where rugged lands stretched for miles without human habitation b) Migration for seasonal farming and jobs had existed for millennia c) The area was too large for strict regulation and control d) People on both sides of the border benefited from the movement of goods and people
It’s strange that people are panicked about the southern border when fewer people cross over today. Stricter policies have trapped seasonal migrants and pushed many into smuggling over the family who used to remain in Mexico.
Yes, the border has become big business for cartels. But it is our demand for cheap drugs, labor & knock-off goods that drive it. The moment that investment improves the job market to the south of us, the border crossing will end.
The wall is a permanent fixture that does not address a temporary problem.
471
"Trump’s wall isn’t about governing but about creating a political symbol and rallying his base. The problem is that it’s an expensive symbol."
You got that right--I've heard that $5.6 billion would balloon to more than $30 billion to complete the full stretch of unguarded land with no fences or facsimiles of barriers.
Furthermore, if the wall is a symbol, it's one to idiocy, as the fountain of lies about border statistics continues to be debunked.
Furthermore, what's an emergency? If you have to ponder every other week when the nest time to call an emergency is, it can't be much of one.
No, better to raid the areas still in need of reconstruction from storms caused by global warming, and above all, let's start with the island where the damage was greatest because the government's disaster relief was the smallest.
You have to hand it to Trump: when it comes to disasters, he has a knack of making them worse with hair-brained ideas that only a cruel mind could devise.
407
@ChristineMcM. @ChristineMcM. "Furthermore, if the wall is a symbol, it's one to idiocy, as the fountain of lies about border statistics continues to be debunked." But are they being debunked as fast as they are being told? I think not. That is precisely my fear: a wonderful article in the NY Times yesterday debunked every Trump claim asa the lie s they are. Yet, how much is this getting out to the public? The press needs to be brave and follow up asking where the statistics are to back any claim the POTUS makes. Trump runs his mouth with little to no accountability. I suggest if he is confronted by the press with each claim, he will stop, or at the least curtail, the continuous stream of lies.
22
Except Trump does not have $5.7 billion. He has never been a billionaire except in his imagination. That is one of the reasons he will not make his tax returns public. The Senate republicans need to step up and do their job of step down.
18
@Jon MacLeod I think that Nicholas Kristof is aware of “The First Brat’s” financial condition. This is called sarcasm or perhaps irony.
It's all well and good to read about President Trump's nonsense, but it's better to join together to stop the shutdown. Perhaps if Mitch McConnell were deluged with mail urging him to allow a vote on the compromise bill to open the government that already passed unanimously, he would do so. Similarly, some moderate Republican senators who are against the shutdown might act more forcefully.
I've created Facebook page, Shutdown [sic] the Shutdown. I'm now at 3 members. Perhaps someone more adept at social media could try. I've also tried to write MCConnell a letter a day (NOT an email). I'm not at three.
7
The most comical of Trump's ideas was to declare a false emergency to build his wall, that addresses no real problem, and take the money to pay for it from help already allocated to real emergencies, real emergencies right here in the USA, where disaster victims are suffering right now, every day. How is it that we've come to be led by the likes of Trump, whose approach to governance most closely resembles a parody of governance?
17
@Terry too many voters did not vote in 2016.
1
There are laws against the military building the wall or policing it without permission from Congress. Anyone funding it without permission can be prosecuted and jailed for up to two years per regulations from the 1950s and 1976. Sorry I don't have the exact regulations.
6
A look at a map of North America shows why the wall is needed, the U.S. is top heavy, a substantial, heavy base needs to be added to the bottom of the country, hence the wall.
2
Trump has just about maxed out his borrowing, and is no more able to personally pay for the wall than you or I. Also, he has generally avoiding using his personal funds to pay for anything--ever. That's what grifters do
19
The last point is meant as half-joke and half-taunt but privately financing the wall is a legitimate question. Republicans love private everything when cutting social programs. Why are they expecting taxpayers to finance Trump's ludicrous ego trip?
Politics aside, no sensible business person would ever invest in Trump's wall. Doing business with Trump seems like a losing proposition all the way around. We're talking about a man who can lose money on a casino. Business with Trump means you don't get paid barring sex scandals and you might end up in jail. I'm not touching Trump's business ventures and neither should the US government.
Remember, there a reason major US credit lenders froze Trump out. The only people still interested in doing business with Trump are Russian money launderers. Admittedly, probably Saudi money launderers as well.
You do have to give Trump credit for one thing though. We're not talking about the Russian investigation right now. He's destroying nearly a million homes financially, endangering lives, possibly stealing money from disaster victims. However, he did manage to change the subject finally. The news media needs to change the subject back.
20
@Andy The Wall should not be built at all no matter how it might be funded. It is a bad idea for many reasons. Bad ideas should be discarded, resisted, and blocked. If a corporation has a design for an airplane that experts in the design field assert will be unstable and crash, the airplane should not be developed, period. Trump’s Wall is a similar case.
6
We need a national strike by the American people. Now. We need millions of Americans to walk off their jobs because the Senate under McConnell, who could stop this in an instant, refuses to do so. Maybe the sight of millions of AMericans refusing to work and pay taxes will remind these bozos who they work for.
17
Nicolas Kristof complains that “the most egregious humanitarian concern has been Trump’s brutal policy of separating children from parents at the border.” But the Trump administration does not have and has never had a policy of separating migrant children from their parents. It separates migrant children from their parents only to comply with a federal court order.
In 2015, Judge Dolly Gee off the U.S. District Court for the Central District of California ruled that accompanied children apprehended along with their parents at the border must be treated the same as unaccompanied children apprehended at the border, They cannot be held in custody with their parents, but must be released to centers operated by the Department of Health and Human Resources. The “child separation policy” is not a Trump administration policy; it is Judge Gee’s policy. Her ruling is the reason—the only reason—migrant children are separated from their parents.
1
@William Case You overlook the fact that Trump has chosen to DETAIN asylum seekers rather than releasing them while they wait for their court hearings. It is true that the Flores settlement forbids the detention of families with children for more than 20 days. The obvious and humane response, as Judge Gee's 2015 ruling indicated, is to release families and require them to appear in court for their rulings. Trump, instead, has chosen to detain the adults indefinitely and take their children away from them. Your post is tendentious to the point of falsehood. Here's a link that might help:
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/21/us/immigration-judge-executive-order-trump.html
2
@wysiwyg
EXACTLY
To all Conservatives and the Bots posting in support of Donald, question for you:
WHY didn’t the Republicans who controlled Congress for the last TWO YEARS fund Donald’s wall?! Why didn’t Republicans who are now holding 800,000 Americans and their families hostage PAY for the wall TWO YEARS ago?!
Also, Donald lied over and over and over about Mexico paying for the wall, there are dozens if not more videos clips of the LiarnChief spouting off about who would pay for the wall!
Worse is Mitch McConnell, who refuses to allow the Federal Spending Bill passed in December by both House and Senate to come for a vote in the Senate! Why? McConnell doesn’t have the votes and he’s knows it!
Let’s remember that when Republicans had their chance to put country over party, they choose the party of the Russian asset!
25
The border emergency is so urgent that Republicans spent 2 years doing nothing about it when they controlled the House and the Senate.
Chicken Little is late to the party.
14
Nicolas Kristof asserts that “a great majority of the undocumented immigrants in the country didn’t arrive by sneaking across the border, but rather came legally, often at airports, and overstayed their visas.” He provides a link to a study that says: “In fiscal 2017, the number of immigrants who overstayed their visas was double the number of people caught trying to cross the U.S.-Mexico border.” But the study only shows the number of people who overstay their visas is greater than the number of people “caught trying to cross the U.S.-Mexico border.” The Department of Homeland Security estimates that the Border Patrol catches only half of the people who cross the border illegally. In 2018, the Border Patrol arrested 403,479 illegal border crossers, but about the same number probably eluded the border patrol Except for the arrests, about 800,000 illegal border crossers would have entered the United States in 2018.
Homeland Security rioted that about 740,000 overstayed their visas in 2018. This only indicates there are two crises, not one.
Last May, Citizenship and Immigration Services issued a policy memorandum to facilitate the removal of foreign students, exchange visitors and other nonimmigrants who overstay their visas. The New York Times, of course, published articles critical of the crackdown on visa overstayers, just as it opposes all effects to reduce illegal immigration.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/24/us/politics/trump-crackdown-student-visas.html
1
Brilliant suggestion! The guy has made many worse deals than buying the wall.
2
I'm telling you, Shady Donald is absolutely bought and paid for by Putin. There is no other explanation for the willful damage that Shady Donald is doing to our country.
8
Somebody is paying him, for sure. He has never done anything out of the goodness of his heart.
2
Trump's idea of declaring an emergency and shifting funds from other disaster relief appropriations is wonderful.
Section 314(a) of the Stafford act (42 USC section 5157) provides that "Any person who knowingly misapplies the proceeds of a loan or other cash benefit obtained under this Act shall be fined an amount equal to one and one-half times the misapplied amount of the proceeds or cash benefit."
So Mr. Trump would repay $5.7B x 1.5 = $8.55 billion to the treasury for his wall!
5
I think the "wall" is obviously a stupid idea which grew from the idiotic rallies trump held as he ran for president. Back then it was just a shouting-mob-chant by his less than knowledgeable supporters.
Now the "wall" has become a Quixotic quest by a vain foolish man who has shutdown the government and essentially left 800,000 (plus) government workers to figure out how to pay their bills for food, rent, mortgage, etc.
House Democrats have passed legislation to fund and reopen the government. But GOP Senate Majority leader, Mitch McConnell, has refused to bring the House bills up for a vote because he says trump will not sign them. But how will we know this if the Senate does not vote.
In other words as long as McConnell does not remember that he works for the people of the United States and the lights are not being shut off at the White House by the electric company for lack of payment the trump shutdown will continue.
8
Kristof: "I propose that Trump pay the $5.7 billion himself, and then the U.S. will repay him (with a nice interest rate) as the Mexican payments for the wall pour in."
Great idea; and think how cheap it would be, after trump stiffs all the contractors and declares bankruptcy.
7
If Americans lack health care, food, housing, then 5.7B could be better spent for our defense.
But even more hypocritical are democrats who authorized over $1000B for what they call "defense" (DoD, VA, Homeland Sec, interest, etc.)
Read Army, Navvy, AF , they do not say defense. It's to win battles, like Vietnam, Iraq, etc (clearly the "expeditionary" Marines. Oh, and protect us from invasion by British and Japanese armies marching across the country, which will never happen, a joke.
Money well spent. For the 16th-19th C colonial British empire, totally insane for us. $5B for wall, $900B for Americans, if you can find dems and reps who care more about Americans than being an evil empire.
1
I am surprised that there are only five crazy arguments Trump has made about anything!
To borrow a phrase from Bill Maher, New Rule - All of Trump's arguments are crazy and wild and bunk.
4
The wall is a step toward "Making America White Again" as a reminder to brown people that they aren't welcome. That's why Trump's supporters let him do whatever he wants and support the wall, not because it's a logical use of the funds, but because it gives a rural white voter an excuse to blame someone else for their problems.
7
Trump's wall is a symbol of the con job he pulled on his ignorant base desperate for a savior. Trump's deregulation of polluting companies and adding two trillion to the national debt and passing it on the wealthy and powerful as usual with the GOP. Trump will be brought down this year the forces aligned vs him are gaining momentum. Trump can tweet lies and Sarah the devout Christian can vouch for them and like all the others involved with Trump his stench will never wash off. The Wall was not put up when the GOP controlled congress why would Trump think the Democrats who just won the House hand him his vanity project that Mexico was going to pay for. Trump will lie thousands of times and Mitch will back him up hoping for another judge and tax cut, his legacy will be as Trump's lackey political hack.
2
Nancy Pelosi is not wrong, Trump's wall is immoral and saying so does not mean border security is unnecessary. Ripping apart families and jailing migrants to profit the prison industrial complex, lying about conditions at the border, closing the government and withholding the pay of federal workers for leverage are also immoral acts. Enough is enough
9
Question is how can we bring relief to Dreamers? If the wall is the trade off to bring families backntogether and addressing Immigration reform then it might be worth a worthless wall.
1
"... Nancy Pelosi was wrong to describe a wall as 'an immorality,' for we need border security, and a wall in some places can be effective."
Maybe it's because you're a white guy, but whatever the reason, you're missing the point.
What is immoral about the Great Wall of Trump is that it is only secondarily a security measure. Primarily, Trump's wall is a symbol of racism.
Trump built his campaign on racism, and chants for a wall were the racists' anthem. Throughout the campaign, Trump luxuriated in ruminations about his "big, beautiful wall." His speeches were euphemistic but obvious paeans to racism. After the election & even till today, he stokes fear of immigrants of color through anecdotal horror stories & fake "statistics."
If Democrats cave to wall funding, they are rewarding racism. They should not do so, nor should you judge Nancy Pelosi while wearing white man's blinders.
10
Does Trump’s tap dance have anything to do with a wall? Or is he waiting out the count on the Dems attempts to block the move to lift the sanctions on Deripaska so that he can get the loans for his Moscow hotel?
The deadline in 1/19. Is that when the nonsense will close down?
Of course he's crazy, but he won't pay for anything let alone the wall. Trump's entire business career has been spent stiffing creditors and using other people's money to finance his various projects. Now that Mexico won't pay for the wall perhaps he can get Putin to do so. Or let MBS lift the odium of Khashoggi's murder and buy his way back into respectability with wall money. The irony, of course, is that the wall will never be built by the time Trump leaves the White House, either in January 2021 or before that in handcuffs.
5
trump found out long ago that his supporters will believe any lie, even when it hurts them. The press does not press and uses euphemisms in commentary. The very essence of trump is bully. He is enjoying the misery of 800,000 federal employees and the pyramid effect from it.
6
The stated cost of the wall, $5.7 B, for 700-900 miles of barrio wall is ludicrous. Ask any competent engineer, with environmental and stormwater controls, actual engineering design, right-of-way acquisition and construction issues – more like in excess of $50 B and years to complete.
Example, widening of 21 miles of well-planned metropolitan interstate = $2.3 B, already over budget and behind schedule – and the interstate was already there!!
Only contractors looking for a government hand out proposed wall segments and costs. Unlike a typical TrumpCo project, overruns will be paid by me (tax paying citizens of the US) rather than payment avoidance via contractor cheating bankruptcy.
The wall has already been proven ineffective – it can be cut through by a readily available saw (government’s own test).
It is nothing more than an ecologically reprehensible vanity project.
Estimates don’t include the cost of painting the “Great Wall of Trump” gold or installation of the “huge” “great” branding signs mandatory for any TrumpCo project.
8
Trump pay the $5.7 B himself.......?
First, he doesn't have the money, second, NO ONE would lend him the money, except perhaps you know who, and third he really isn't smart enough to recognize a smart win win business opportunity.
And McConnell keeps whistling
3
I think you have the perfect solution to the wall issue. Our "Take thy bond and write eighty" President should do just fine with that, as should the rest of us. Please forward your suggestion to "Chuck" and "Nancy" as soon as possible.
Thanks from a grateful nation — I hope.
The problem is not Trump, a man hovering at the boundary between intransigence and insanity. The problem is Mitch McConnell who IS sane, but refuses to take any responsibility for the current situation. Shame.
9
If the pretend self-made billionaire had to put up $5.7 b to pay for the wall up front, he would need to borrow the money. Probably the only true source who would consider "lending" the pathetically inept Trump the money would be Russian criminal oligarchs.
Trump's flock will be in for quite a shock when their hero's true financial net worth is finally revealed. Denial may be the most effective self-defense mechanism available at that point.
2
Why is NO one pointing out that a wall takes years to build so it's NOT a solution to a crisis. Why argue with a mad man whether it's really a crisis? The wall makes almost no sense anyway but ABSOLUTELY no sense if it IS a crisis.
5
Don't forget, Nick, that he has several law firms to pay....
1
Well said--all points I have made in discussions with others! However your solution is brilliant--have him put his money where his mouth is. Unfortunately, it is apparent that his claims of billionaire status are as inflated as his ego and he could not fund the wall. We are in a position where we can not give him what he wants because we are dealing with a toddler in the midst of a tantrum trying to deflect notice of his many other misbehaviors.
2
Alternatively Congress can pledge to provide matching funds, $1 for every $1 Mexico pays.
“I’d like to apologize to all the “banana republics” I’ve offended over the decades with snarky references to their dysfunction.”
Welcome to Schadenfreudistan 2.0
We can now take pleasure in our own pain.
2
BAMM!! Beautifully put.
Crisis? So terrorists are crossing the border and a wall the only solution? If that were true, what happens during the many years of construction - the ``crisis`` just rolls on?
2
The President shut down the government because he thinks he is king. end of discussion. Well we're allowing him to think so.
3
Trump could tell McConnell to bring the budget bill, already passed in the House, to a vote in the Senate. It would likely pass there. It would need only four Republican defections, or 7 Republican abstentions, or some combination thereof. Of course, there's no wall in the budget bill.
Then, consider Ronald Reagan's example. Trump could quietly get hold of Oliver North, to manage another secret sale of purloined US military equipment to our adversaries the ayatollahs of Iran, in violation of the sanctions (but it's not treason if the president does it !!!???).
North could then deliver the suitcases full of cash to "discreet" Mafia contractors, who could get the wall built with cheap labor (guess from where) and good gangster concrete. When unsure how to proceed, take a look at the successes of the past... Where there's a devious will, there's a devious way.
Trump wants his wall as a symbol to the world in opposition to the Statue of Liberty and its indelible message. That is what makes it immoral.
3
McConnell could stop this nonsense instantly. Pressure him.
1
The Democrats should just let him have the stupid wall. It’s insane that the government is shut down over this nonsense. The Democrats are every bit as childish as the President. Both sides are pandering to their political bases, and trying to achieve a Pyrrhic victory.
A wall won’t hurt anyone, and $5 billion is peanuts compared to the trillions Bush and Obama squandered on pointless wars.
Also, the Democrats are more likely to lose this fight. The Republican base doesn’t care about the plight of the federal workers, but the Democrats do. Every day is going to put more pressure on Pelosi to give in, while Trump digs in deeper and deeper. I’m sure Trump would be perfectly happy if Mueller and company never receive a paycheck ever again.
1
As is common knowledge, the proposed wall would cost way more than $5.7 billion as all construction projects cost more than estimated. And taxpayers would have to come up with the extra money. But, the stupidity of a wall taking care of immigration issues is obvious, it seems, to people who listen to a variety of news sources.
2
To classify the actual humanitarian crisis as being Trump separating kids from parents misses the mark. These immigrants aren't walking across strange countries and withering deserts, risking abuse and death, just because they're bored and feel like going on holiday.
The people Trump is relentlessly persecuting are people who are fleeing actual, monstrous threats to their lives and families. They're fleeing from the *real* humanitarian crisis here. "Discouraging" them from making the journey wouldn't be some perverse kindness, as Trump would have us believe; it would be telling them to go rot in the hells they're trying to escape from.
I don't agree with Kristof. He's right that the wall is stupid and unnecessary and a symbol of Trump's bigotry, but Democrats should still let him have half of what he is asking for it: half of the 5.7 billion dollars. That is a pittance compared to the federal budget and to the enormous financial harm this is causing to millions of innocent people and to our economy. Neither Trump nor Pelosi is going to come out of this as the undisputed boss, because the fact is that we now have a divided government. So compromise and get over it. People need to stop standing on their precious principles at the expense of others whose lives are being ruined.
What is even more astonishing is that 40% of Americans believe his lies. I don't know whether to laugh or to cry.
2
2 years + with a certified fool as president. Those are the only words I have left. Applying logic and sanityto attempt to frame this tRump-created nightmare appears to be futile. Where's the king of the deal? Anyone know?
1
"Plenty of people would be a bit relieved if Trump took the dubious route of declaring a national emergency and trying to steal, er, divert money intended for disaster victims to pay for his wall." Creates a viable precedent for future democratic presidents who need to solve a real crisis, like global warming!
"Trump’s wall isn’t about governing but about creating a political symbol and rallying his base." The problem is that it’s an expensive symbol and we taxpayers are being asked to pay for it. This summaries why the people do not want "the wall", we are OK with border security which is cheaper and more effective than a wall, but Trump cannot hang his hat on fences and cameras. So 800,000 go without pay on a trump base whim.
1
Open the government by just giving him the 5.0 billion dollars. And then deduct the amount from the defense budget. I am sure our elected officials are good at maneuvering the numbers to satisfy the president and the Democratic politicians.
2
Any payment from the US treasury, whether from increased income resulting from NAFTA or its’ replacing treaty, means that the US pays for the wall. For example if $5 billion is diverted to pay for the wall, that is $5 billion that otherwise would be used to pay some legitimate US government expense. Even if the US Treasury had a surplus account (dream on) those funds would be used to pay down the national debt. The ONLY way Mexico pays for the wall is to pay for it directly.
2
@Dale Lucas Mexico will not pay in cash, but the cartels will send Trump marijuana and crack and meth. Then Trump can distribute it and we will all finally understand him.
1
What Mr. Trump possibly doesn't realize in his ealous quest to build "HIS" wall is the amount of harm he's wreaking not only on his base, but on the entire country as he grinds this nation's government to a sceeching halt.
By centering his focus entirely on a campaign promise and then holding us all hostage to it will not only cost more financially, but it deprives the country of the very services it requires to remain fully operational.
There's no doubt that when it's time to vote, all those government employees who are now working without pay or who have been "furloughed" will remember this.
Just like here's no doubt that Trump's promises of having Mexico pay for that wall have failed to materialize, and his usual attempts to shift the blame to the Democrats contradict his own admission of "owning" this shutdown.
In the meantime nothing changes the fact that every single American is now paying for this wall... but not as much as this president ultimately will.
8
Trump should show us a detailed accounting and projection of what the indirect revenues of the new trade agreement with Mexico will be, and how they will be spent on "the Wall". As the funds become available they can then be directed toward the building of "the Wall". But even so, I seem to remember that the new trade agreement had nothing to do with any wall, so shouldn't any revenues have to be decided on by Congress freely, without any advance earmarks for a wall?
4
How can you, of all people, and everyone else in the press, fail to recall the history of interventions of the US in Central and South America, "our backyard" in the Monroe doctrine. And more recently the "War on Drugs" and the power of the US financiers (you now what they are doing to PR, for example), making lives unbearable to many, who naturally want to escape and move North?
11
Nicolas Kristof says, “Plenty of people would be a bit relieved if Trump took the dubious route of declaring a national emergency and trying to steal, er, divert money intended for disaster victims to pay for his wall.” But the president has so far opted not to declare a national emergency.Instead, he is relying on the constitutional system of checks and balances,. The Constitution grants presidents veto power. Congress cannot override a presidential veto of a spending bill that contains no border wall funding because it is divided on the issue. Since the Constitution provides that all revenue bills must originate in the House of Representatives, the House is obliged to pass a spending bill that will pass in the Senate and reach the president’s desk. Otherwise, the House, not Trump, is responsible for the shutdown. Trump has not veto the spending bill. In fact, he hasn’t voted any bill since becoming president.
1
@William Case- tRUMP- has indeed determined he's allowed to circumvent the US CONSTITUTION- because any Government Spending is created by The Congress.
Normally- any Public Infrastructure Project - is done by a group of elected Legislators who assemble Designs, Drawings with detailed specifications and allow it to be competitively bid upon- tRUMP's done none of that, instead UNILATERALLY DECIDING what he feels is best for "US".
That's not "our system".
That is not how things get built in this Nation.
Either Don-The-Con, pay for it out of his own Bank account, or it doesn't get funded by US Taxpayers-who do NOT WANT a Medieval Solution to a 21st-Century
challenge.
20
@William Case That is some tortured logic right there. Congress sent Trump a bill to fund the government last month. It passed the Republican-controlled Senate with 94 votes. Trump said he would sign it, but when Ann Coulter and Rush Limbaugh started screeching, he changed his mind. This month, the House passed the same bill that received 94 votes in the Senate last month. Majority Leader McConnell refused to even bring it up for a vote. So, of course, the only logical conclusion is that it's all the fault of House Democrats. Sheesh.
27
@William Case: The House is not obliged to pass a spending that will pass in the Senate, just as the Senate is not obliged to pass a spending bill that the president will accept. But anyway, the House did pass a spending bill that the Senate was willing to accept, but McConnell refuses a vote on it because Trump would not accept it anymore after Ann Coulter told him "no". It's McConnell derelicting on his job here. He should bring the bill to a vote, and if Trump vetoes it, bring an overrride to Trump's veto to the vote. And McConnell is naive in thinking that he can trust Trump's word on accepting or not accepting anything, or he is in cahoots with Trump to try and blame Democrats on the shutdown, that Trump in his own words: "Proudly Owns". After all. McConnell's wife is dependent on Trump for her job...
18
Nicolas Kristof notes that “Trump repeatedly declared that Mexico would pay for the wall, and he still insists that Mexico will pay for it indirectly.” This only shows Trump says dumb things. It is not a valid argument against building the border wall. The Border Patrol, which should know, says a border wall built to its Trump said in 2016.
The government is shut down because Congress is divided on the border wall issue. It can not muster the votes to override a presidential veto of a spending bill that does not fund the border wall. But this is the way the constitutional system of checks and balances is supposed to work. Since the Constitution provides that all appropriations bills must originate in the House of Representatives, it is up to the House to pass a compromise spending bill that include border wall funding.
@William Case
What proof do you have that the Senate doesn't have the votes to override the veto. The government is shutdown because McConnell won't put a bill they have previously approved up for a vote. It the president vetoed and they couldn't override. THEN, they can keep trying until something passes. That is how the system of checks and balances actually works. They don't need to come up with a compromise before seeing if the current bill can override a veto. Not trying to put a bill forward is Mitch ignoring his oath to the constitution (and the job he is paid to do with our money) and instead favoring his oath to Trump. He seems to favor a monarchy, when it is his king, over our republic.
29
@Mike
McConnell is the Senate majority leader. He rejected the bill on behalf of the Senate. I agree that political party hacks should not be allowed to prevent measures from coming to vote and that the Senate's notorious 60-Vote Rule should be declared unconstitutional, but both Democrats and Republicans use theses tactics. The House has to pass a compromise bill that will make it though the Senate or take blame for the shutdown.
2
@William Case No, the government continues to be "shut down" because Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell will not bring the bill/bills to the senate floor, which an overwhelming (veto proof) majority approved before Mr. Trump shut down the government -- on the recommendation of a couple media right wingers.
24
Trump is an easy target and is at fault, but the president is a small player when it comes to budgeting our money. McConnell and his band of thieves, called Republican senators are the real culprits since Dems took over the house. Since they stole the SCUTUS seat they feel invincible. But we will remember!
25
Unfortunately Mr T does not understand humour very well, especially when he is its object. Apparently he also has difficulty in following any argument of more than one step (so he can deal with "I am President so I can do anything I want" but not "Stopping salary payments to Federal employees is going to have serious knock-on effects on people's lives and so on the economy."
One of the great things about buying stuff from Mr Bezos' company is that you can send things back without a hassle. I would suggest a change in the US Constitution to allow the people to purchase their next President in the same way - risk-free.
12
Tantalizing fantasy Nick but you are assuming that Trump is worth the $10 billion he proclaimed he is as a candidate and that even if he were, much of that wealth is in the form of real estate or income from branding his name, neither of which are at all liquid. In other words, even if he had a road to Damascus epiphany and took your suggestion, he likely could not afford it.
10
How about a more practical approach? The Congress could appropriate matching funds, 1:1 for whatever Mexico allocates in its budget. Then the attention of the executive branch can be focused on negotiating with Mexico. Those who believe the Mexico funding scenario should be happy, and those who don’t believe it should also be happy. Granted it means the US would have to pay half of what has been claimed to be 100% Mexico-funded, but that’s the kind of political compromise that governing is all about.
3
Nicolas Kristof says the $5.7 billion Trumps want to spend on a border wall “could send 100,000 at-risk American kids to a high-quality preschool for a year AND provide Pell grants for 100,000 students to attend college for a full four years, with enough left over to ALSO provide a year’s comprehensive treatment to 115,000 Americans struggling with opioid addiction.”
But the Federation for American Immigration Reform estimates that educating children who cross he border illegally and the children of illegal immigrants cost states more than $44 billion per year and the federal government $1.6 billion a year. That ’s just the education costs related to illegal immigrants.
1
@William Case and who is the Federation for American Immigration Reform? And who is behind it? A quick examination of their website does not suggest to me that they are a federation of unbiased citizens. How were these figures compiled? Please direct us to the data.
21
@William Case And the Institute of Taxation and Economic Policy estimates that undocumented immigrants paid $23,6 Billion in taxes. I wasn't a math major, but I'm pretty sure that $23.6 Billion is more than $1.6 Billion.
6
@Randy
As I pointed out, state spends $44 billion and the federal government spends $1.6 billon per year every year to educate children of illegal immigrants. Subtract the $5.7 billion requested for the border wall from $50 billion to estimate the annual savings.
The taxes undocumented immigrant pay does not cover the cost of state and federal service to their families. The full bill will come due when they got old and sick without Special Security and Medicare. They will have to be provided for, and Mexico won't pay for it.
1
I like the idea of using the Money for more enlightened issues like pre school for at risk youth, and the growing need for treatment of drug issues, as a Medical Jounal noted this week! Great work on this piece!
8
Yes, Trump should pay for the wall. That is a brilliant idea. And, he must agree with the concept himself. Lets just take a few words from his speech accepting the Republican presidential nomination:
"Nobody knows the system better than me, which is why I alone can fix it."
Since Trump is so incredibly wealthy, and only he can fix it, well then, go ahead and fix it!
41
Since Trump claims that Mexico will pay for the wall thru his US-Mexico_Canada Agreement and Canada is part of that agreement, doesn't it therefore follow that Canada would also be paying for the wall? I wonder how Prime Minister Trudeau feels about his country (by Trump's logic) paying for a ridiculous wall located more than 1,000 miles from the Canadian border?
14
In conversation with a friend yesterday she suggested that proclaimed billionaire Trump should pay for the wall himself, so Mr. Kristof's last two paragraphs are spot on.
In the unlikely scenario of Trump putting up his own money where is mouth is, the Federal Reserve would likely have to forward much of the imaginary Mexican proceeds to the building contractors, given Trump's history of stiffing his contractors.
15
Since psychopaths are known for needing to win at all costs, your suggestion of a win-win way out of this impasse is right on target. First of all, it would give Mr. Trump the opportunity to show off his power and wealth. Secondly, it would satisfy his base because he would be given the opportunity to build his wall. And thirdly, it would never happen.
If the popular vote in 2016 tells us anything, the vast majority of Americans knew it would be a disaster if Donald Trump were elected president. But I’m not sure even the most cynical among us knew that he would succeed in shutting down the federal government for weeks, months or perhaps years just to satisfy his ego and his base. Do you think if we posted 2000 miles of signs with his name on them that Trump would be satisfied?
19
@Patricia Lay-Dorsey I have been following Donald Trump since he came into the public eye in the early ‘80’s. I am not one bit surprised by his behavior as POTUS. This is exactly how he has behaved his entire adult life! Trump only thinks about himself and his needs. He is a narcissist in every sense of the word. Trumps only interest in life is how anything and everything benefits him, period! He doesn’t want to win for the USA he wants to win for DJT and will go to any length to do so, legally or illegally. He so badly wants the approval of Putin and anyone that can’t see that is blind!
As far as the wall is concerned for Trump it’s a trophy...a monument so to speak. Sort of like his Trump towers. It wouldn’t surprise me if after his wall is built he somehow didn’t find a way to have his name engraved all along the stupid thing so when he flies over it in his Trump airplane he can see his name all lit up along the US/Mexico border.
1
I'm appalled that Trump can apparently get away with causing literal near-term damage to a fast-growing proportion of the economy, just to serve his vanity about an uninformed campaign promise that appeals to a minority of voters—AND CONGRESS CAN DO NOTHING ABOUT IT.
Oh, sure: File legal challenges if the Artist of No Deal declares a national emergency. That gets resolved in how many months?
If intelligent opinion could oust a president, he'd have been gone months ago! "But words will never hurt me."
Somebody: Hire some furniture movers to lift the childish man out of his Oval Office chair and firmly plant him in Florida permanently.
Or the Cabinet could give more merit to the national interest (and the public good) than to their post-Trump career opportunities, and invoke the disability clause of the 25th Amendment.
We could solve this mess quickly. One could also wake up Mitch McConnell—like, HEY, Mitch: For the good of America, don't go for re-election in 2020. Be a hero: Stop the White House nonsense.
16
You assume Trump actually has the $5.7 billion.
And since we've never seen his tax returns, maybe he does, maybe he doesn't.
Trump will have his "emergency wall".
Mitch McConnell has assured him of it, as the GOP lead Senate exists only to do Trump's bidding, not to govern or serve the American public.
And the next Democratic President (2020?!) will have an "emergency gun control", since more Americans die from guns than immigrants. And an "emergency healthcare" since many more Americans die from illness than immigrants.
And a "climate change" emergency, and so forth.
Republicans don't think things through...
22
Ah, but Trump was NEVER a billionaire. There was a recent analysis that said he has assets only worth $250 million, that from in effect leasing his name on things. That's why he pushed a business deal to Putin's crowd in 2013 during the Miss Universe pageant in Moscow, and Putin's crowd realized that Trump could be "had" and turned.
Putin--and the "Celebrity Apprentice" TV franchise--made Trump seem rich. Whatever money he has now is dirty--and has a traitorous stain.
11
The problem with suggesting that Trump lend the country $5 billion and change for the wall is that he probably doesn't have anything close to $5 billion in net worth. Which is probably why he won't release his tax returns. If he says he's worth $5 billion then he's almost certainly not worth anything like that much, since he always lies and overinflates anything that could make him look good.
10
@Alexandra Dixon He's main man Putin would have one of his billionaire oligarchs loan it to him by paying $5.7 billion for Mar-a-Lago. Trump could crow about what a good deal maker he is between his "no collusion, no collusion" tweets.
4
Yes, by all means, Trump should pay the $5.7 billion himself and then be repaid by Mexico.
This would probably be the same way he sued Deutsche Bank in 2008 over a $40 million loan that he didn't repay, and he claimed Deutsche Bank was partly to blame for the global financial crisis.
Earlier in his career, Trump reneged on $3.4 billion in loans from American banks he couldn't repay. https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2018-11-29/deutsche-bank-s-troubles-are-donald-trump-s-troubles
With that kind of financial reputation, Trump's munificence with the taxpayers' monies like claiming for his inefficient and impossible wall $5.7 billion (more than one fourth of the entire infrastructure budget for a year) should be placed in context.
Voodoo economics has risen from its grave. Or a three cup shell game in some street con for gullible tourists.
16
One term that Trump stridently prides himself on is his “deal” making ability. How juvenile. Kids make deals in playgrounds. Actually I don’t know any adults who make “deals.” For any work we have done around our house, we get a detailed bid. We might negotiate over items on the bid. Then we sign a contract. Apparently that’s too complicated for the stable genius Trump claims to be. He’s stick in an immature ten year old’s mentality - badgering, lying, having temper tantrums.
8
I am tired of the floundering so I will solve this. Only I can solve this. Building an entirely useless wall makes little sense with the country at full or near full employment, so congress should pass a spending bill that allows for funding it when we go into recession as we inevitably will considering the Trump administration's flailing economic policy. With the ensuing unemployment, the old idea of paying workers to dig holes and fill them back up comes into play. Heck, build it, tear it down and build it again ad infinitum. Trump will have to back off the national emergency thing, but I mean, come on.
Failing that, just invoke the the "let the baby have his bottle" clause that we used to employ on the courts, fields, or diamonds when some fool claimed to have been fouled but hadn't been. Let him take the free throw or whatever and get on with it.
Come on people, my beloved Joshua tree national park is being murdered.
4
I lost interest in Trump when he parodied a handicapped reporter with a physical disability. There were people there who bared their teeth (and it was not intended to be a smile), he demonstrated all I needed to know how unfit for the job he was and still is.
I imagine a break-room floor littered with toothpicks bitten in half by unpaid secret service agents, and the expression on my face is not intended to be a smile.
9
I think that any critique against speaker Nancy Pelosy is unwarranted on any article about the current president of the U.S.
She is not the issue, he and the republican party are the issue and are collaborators of the Russians. The wall is just a diversion from this issue of treason and corruption. Just keep it simple and focus that any action by the president is just to distract from his deeds.
Everybody knows these are non issues, and he wants people to center their attention in minutia rather than on himself.
11
@hugo
Thank you. I interpreted her comment about the wall being immoral to mean that wasting billions of our tax dollars on an ineffective border solution would be immoral especially when we could use that money so much more effectively elsewhere. Nick’s list, for example. I don’t think she was talking about bits of walls here and there. She was talking about DT’s concept of a wall: a solid barrier that would keep out brown people from the south. Racism is immoral.
Trying to tear down Nancy Pelosi is tiresome, especially these days when we need solidarity .
Two things to consider:
1) the same story is being constantly rehashed with set-piece opinion so nobody is really learning anything new
2) the same reporting is not going to wean Fox followers off their pro-GOP bias
Kristof is wrong to write that Pelosi was wrong - because he has commented on his own specific moral interpretation of a broad and universally acknowledgeable moral assertion.
It's so obvious that the Trump strategy is to make the wall the focal point of any manouvering, and because Americans don't waste time on studying the facts, they get easily hooked on soundbites.
Because this whole discussion is ultimately about economics, why does't some bright spark elaborate on the benefits to be derived from developing the US-Mexico border economy - the ultimate social buffer.
6
The financing idea is brilliant! He’s worth $10B, right? No big deal!
3
The government shutdown demonstrates the following:
Trump is incapable of empathy
Trump has finally made THE political miscalculation
Trump is terrified of the about to be revealed truths involving Russia - hence this distraction and diversion.
The shutdown, while cruel and dangerous, is a gift to his political enemies.
6
Cut trump some slack
It isn't easy to paint yourself into a corner when you're standing in an oval office...
14
US no longer has a functioning government due to Trump and the GOP. Indict or impeach Now!
10
I'm sorry sir, but there is a glaring fallacy in your argument. You see the Federal Reserve is or will be shut down! There will be no verification of that awesome income stream, you mentioned.
Furthermore, I predict that within a few years, if Trump has not been deposed, The Wall will be used to keep Americans out of Mexico!
8
I say we cut to the chase and lock him up.
Look at the damage Trump is doing.
If he isn't a Russian asset he should be.
Everything from forcible child separations and children dying at the border to hard working people weeping because they can't pay their bills -
We the People are under attack by our own president and the powers behind him and the GOP that enables him.
Compared to that the border is nothing.
We are under far less threat from the border than we are from the goon inside the White House, and those who enable him including our very own propaganda networks.
13
It is definitely time to get McConnell out of his position. This evil puppet is equally responsible for where the madman has taken us.
One other thought: no one seems to remember the Berlin Wall and the efficacy of that hideous method of separating people.
Last thought: a border wall could prevent you and me from escaping this insanity (or even a natural diaster). It doesn't just attempt to keep people out. It keeps us IN. At some point, we could regret that.
13
I think Trump has seriously misjudged Nancy Pelosi. She is chewing him up and spitting him out, and he doesn't like it one bit. And on top of that, he has the Mueller probe to worry about. He may be thinking about now that being president isn't all it's cracked up to be. Resignation? If he were a rational human being, sure. But he's not, so it's wishful thinking.
7
Here's my idea for how to pay for the wall:
Trump should set up a GoFundMe Page and accept donations. Everyone who donates should get a certificate declaring him/her an "Honorary Mexican".
Problem solved - as long as Trump can get his base to contribute.
2
Thank you Nicholas ! As always you are a humanitarian and brilliant.
4
The funding idea ensures that the wall will never be built for three reasons.
First, Trump knows Mexico will never pay for the wall (lying is his default mode of communication) so he would be stiffed $5.7 billion.
Second, several have opined that Trump does not have the over $12 Billion he sometimes boasted of, nor the $10 Billion he usually boasted of. Lying is his default mode of communication. Those who have studied the matter more than I have put his actual worth at less than the $5.7 Billion required.
Third, even if he had the money he claims to have and even if Mexico were eager and able to pay $5.7 Billion for the Wall, Trump would not take the deal because he's a greedy grasping little twerp. If you haven't noticed his character, look at how he ran Trump Charities as a personal cash cow.
7
The wall is an immorality, and Speaker Pelosi was right to say so, but I do not know her reasoning. It is an immorality because it would cut off movements of animals and hinder dispersal of many plants between the two countries. Moreover, it would cut off the Rio Grande. These outcomes would be seriously damaging to the already hugely stressed biological world. Humans should not be so arrogant as to just do what we like, and however we like, without concern for the rest of life.
6
McConnell will do what ever it takes to keep Trump happy.
He wants to pack the courts with judges. This is a long term payoff worth any price!
3
Like his inaugural ball, “the wall” is just another scheme to funnel money to himself. He is that obvious.
4
They are NOT his Craziest Arguments. They are all just like his first big whopper - the Bone Spur lie. Almost everything he has done since those first days in Flushing, NY has been a lie. He has become so adept at these hundreds, perhaps thousands, of lies that he finds it almost impossible to tell the truth. We Americans deserve better than a half (at least) crazy man going from one crazy idea to another. Where are the adults who are supposedly our representatives?
By the way, is he receiving his salary,as I heard when I called the WH on Friday? If so, he should apologize to all of those workers who are not receiving their salaries while he gets his.
5
@W. Michael O'Shea remember he’s donating his salary to charity. As if.
''House Speaker Nancy Pelosi was wrong to describe a wall as “an immorality,” - NO, she wasn't.
The whole concept of keeping out ''them'' is outdated as is the concept of money itself. This planet is hurtling towards demise at the hand of man, while policy after policy of consumption (resources, environment, people, drugs, war, etc...) further exacerbates the pain inflicted.
There are corrupt governments and failed governments and incompetent governments all achieving the same thing. - again, our demise.
We are going to have to come together right quick to save ourselves, and walls are not going to do that. Soon we will be clamoring over ourselves INSIDE the walls for the last of the resources. (especially water)
Our choice !
6
Yea, it's tough now. But ten years from now, twenty years from now, thirty years from now they'll be no wall, and Ivanka Trump will have to live with the shame of having been a Senior Counselor to the President of the United States who ruined the lives of his children.
4
Declaring a state of emergency is the next step of Trump’s goal to become Lord High Everything Else and Lord High Executioner as well.
And unless he and his VP are hauled from office, either under legal methods (how many expert psychiatrists are required to declare someone insane and a danger to self or others forcing involuntary commitment in Washington DC? New York?
His Loyal Cabinet will never take a 25th Amendment action and impeachment, unless the Mueller Team report finds a smoking gun demonstrating High Treason, will take a year.
I want NO VIOLENCE - by an individual martyr or “militia” - that is almost as bad as Trump’s attempt to become the US Vladimir Putin - trashing the Rule of Law - which is doing daily as he moves closer to making his putch.
He was elected to serve as part check on Congress and part figurehead - the human equivalent of the flag, representing us to the world - not being laughed out of the UN General Assembly.
We are probably the only nation that exists - or did - perfectly well without a head of government.
Trump refuses to believe that - always attacking Congress or the courts or the media for not doing as he wishes.
I hope the 70% of us who do not support him will be ready for massive nonviolence in coming weeks. Maybe demanding, fresh electors be called to do as the founders envisioned their duty - to agree the voters made the right decision when they chose an experienced stateswoman, feared by our enemies, and name Hillary Clinton President.
4
In this day and age, when we all are bombarded by 5-10 scam calls a week and our personal/family data sold/stolen at 1 incident a week rate), we all need a protecting wall built/run by the government that shields each individual from the daily terror. Would be money well spent.
2
I suggest that all principles involved meet at an undisclosed franchise of the McDonalds hamburger chain and strike a swift deal with the offer of "as many big macs as you can stuff down" as the attraction of coming together in a so-called big meal deal.
Per your suggestion, Mr.Kristov, Mr.Trump is not a billionaire- his available cash would pay for two miles of fence.He had a catchy slogan which worked for him on the campaign trail- build a wall and Mexico will pay for it.He Is no politician- he promises what he knows he cannot deliver.He is making our government the laughing stock by sitting in the Oval Office and demanding that he get his way.He is not an autocrat and we must insist that he learn that. No Wall Autocrat!
4
On top of the distress our country is feeling 7/24 due to an infantile POTUS, we have treasonous acts on the part of McConnell and his Senate bullies. I would also offer that the Murdoch's are a serious component of the problem.
Getting McConnell off of his high perch and deporting the Murdoch's will help. But, then what about the 35 to 40% of the US population who eat the propaganda up and support the infant in the White House without question? What happened to the Evangelicals who are now as complicit as McConnell?
Lot's of cleaning up to do but Nancy is up to it.
5
You ever have a salesman try to get chummy with you when nearing a close, by sharing his political or racial or sexual biases and assuming that you think the same way? I have, many times, and that is when I walk.
And this is why I walk from the president's pitch for the wall.
4
No President or Congress should ever be permitted to shut down our Government. There needs to be put in place an Amendment to the Constitution to prevent further shutdowns. Period
We taxpayers have a right to expect our Government to function properly. And those employed by the Government should not have to work without pay or be furloughed just because Trump is having a hissy fit.
Grow up Trump and Republicans in Congress, especially Mitch MConnell.
10
The biggest problem in America is that none of this reasoned argument reaches Trump's followers.
It should be a crime for news outlets, such as Fox, to continue to hype the nonsense they do when the consequence is the erosion or destruction of our democratic republic.
How about a column identifying every advertiser that finances these right wing propagandists?
Make it easy for those of us who see this as the core problem to boycott those companies.
Nothing speaks louder than revenue.
4
I am confused.
I read that 30% of the border is fenced now. The 5.7 billion would build another 10%. So then 40% would have some sort of barrier. So what about the other 60%. Don’t you think the immigrants would just go around what is built like they are with the current 30%.
If this is declared a national emergency can’t they take the $13 billion left over. And take what ever is left over next year.
One question for you. If you had happened to be born an immigrant would want to treated way we are treating the People that we catch?
I worked for the IRS during the last shutdown. The extra payed vacation was nice. It was to bad that taxpayer didn’t get anything for their money.
Did you know that small businesses short the treasury over $400 billion a year.
Thanks
Bill
2
We don't need a wall to keep non Whites from south of the border from entering the USA. One child dying in ICE custody was a tragedy. A second child dying indicates death is Trump's policy.
People talk. As parents in Central America hear that Trump's policy is to have children separated from them, caged, and then go without food, water, and medical care, those parents will NOT come to the USA.
The USA can benefit from those refuge children.
It's legal to enslave people incarcerated in the USA, including non citizens like these refuge children. Perhaps ICE may rent the services of these children to clothing factories on the Texas border. Picture ICE receiving $1 an hour (or more) for the work of 10,000 child slaves. ICE could have revenues of over half a million a week and become self sustaining, with nothing needed from the American taxpayer to keep it running.
The child slaves will receive food, clothing, and shelter, but no money or benefits for working in those factories. Our clothing industry could come roaring back by enslaving children. Moreover, when they turn 21, we can just send them back to where they came from.
Just think about the ROI for the USA. A 10 year old from Central America who manages to get here and who is enslaved for 11 years in a factory could generate $25,000 in revenues for ICE while costing just $20,000 -- $5 a day for food, clothing, and shelter -- a 25% return. Ayn Rand would be all for it. Why not you?
1
I don't understand US politics. There is absolutely no analysis in the press. There is no " Government shut down " ! What is this word " government " in the mind of Americans ? It does not mean anything. The army of almost 1 million soldiers is getting paid . They are government employees. There is just one process of the budget that concerns one part only of Us employees that has been with held from the vote. There is no analysis of how or why it happened in the press. And what the president has to do with it.
The first step to resolve the problem is to understand it clearly. There is no transparency between the political process and the US citizens.Nobody knows what happened and why but there is a ton of metonymical articles presenting disguised facts mixed with psychological ideas but no causality at all in the thinking.
Steve Schmidt, the articulate former GOP operative, was on a cable show not long ago. In reference to Trump’s wall and the hundred of times he said that Mexico will pay for it, Schmidt deadpanned, “ Where are the Pesos? Show me the Pesos.”
I hope that during debates in 2020, assuming Trump runs again, that democrats will use that line from Schmidt.
5
And why isn’t the media up in arms that the senate took the weekend off while forcing thousands to work without pay?
4
Your five points are excellent, but your payment plan is plainly unfeasible. As any subcontractor, business partner, or supplier -- Trump is corrupt, through and through. If he says he'll pay the $5.7 Billion, as you propose, be sure to get it in cash, up front. A 'promise to pay' from Trump isn't worth the hot air he exhales to say it.
3
Actually President Trump could have got the money he wanted for the wall if he were to get it done when he had the majority in both houses. So it’s not at all about the wall but personal ego that has caused misery to the 800,000 employees.
If he has some issues against the Democrats, he can very well play cat and mouse game with them but using the employees as sacrificial lambs is too bad.
He referred to all illegal immigrants as rapists and murderers, which is completely false to say the least. Their doors for earning and making lives better are perhaps shut in the country of their origins either due to violence or due to some other reasons. As such they risk not only their lives but also the lives of their children and wives to enter America illegally, which is considered to be a dream world for outsiders.
As rightly mentioned by Nicholos Christof point by point, the President’s reasons collapse like a pack of cards. Nicholos has suggested that the President pay for the wall. I suggest that the President should compensate the salaries of all the employees till the shutdown lasts and then entire amount can be paid back to him once the shutdown period gets over.
A number of people including Nicholos have mentioned that main problem is with those, who overstay their Visas. I don’t understand how such people are pulling on for a longer period since getting accommodation, job etc are very difficult without social security number and valid credit cards.
1
The more we focus on the WALL and on SHUTDOWN the less we focus on Trump's Russian involvement.
Shameful on how many people and businesses are being hurt in this diversion. But the rope is getting shorter.
2
Mr. Kristof -
You are way too literal.
The "wall" is not a wall, in fact, to Trump. Indeed it is a metaphor - it stands for another attempt (after the Muslim ban, the zero tolerance, the detentions of children, the other atrocities) at implementing an exclusionary, closed, anti-immigrant, anti-1965 law, white Christian only immigration policy a la 1924.
Another Trump move to change America's open immigration policies - indeed, a metaphor for "open borders."
You say "Speaker Nancy Pelosi was wrong to describe a wall as “an immorality."
No, YOU are wrong. As a metaphor, the wall indeed is immoral.
2
Since Donald Trump is the one and only Article II executive office President of the United States that we currently have and the federal government has been partially shutdown there is nothing crazy about his border wall arguments.
By focusing on and responding to his arguments based upon logic and reason you are missing Trump's pointed real objective.Trump needs and wants a distraction from the serious looming threats of Special Counsel Robert S. Mueller, III and Nancy D. Pelosi. Trump needs and wants a distraction from smiling and smirking Benjamin Netanyahu, Vladimir Putin and Mohammed bin Salman.
3
The Democrats could accept the 5 billions for the wall, but impose no further spending on the wall in the future. Trump knows the wall will cost way more than 5 billions to build. The King cannot move, checkmate. #capthewall
I like suggestion #5. Trump claims he's worth $10 billion, so he can easily afford to fund the wall. Perhaps he can get some of his billionaire supporters, like Sheldon Adelson and the DeVos family, to contribute since he saved them millions with his tax cut.
3
Let's forget the window dressing coming from Trump and many media outlets right now - these "talking points" are, er, pointless. There are three issues to consider here:
1. Trump couldn't get the wall passed by a Republican Congress any more than he can a divided Congress, but the current battle plays much better to his followers. Now, the Dems get to be the bad guys and Trump the hero, "fighting to make America safer."
2. There is a very strong potential for this to get ugly very quickly. The more chaos Trump can inflict on the government and the nation, the more likely he is to make a swift move for increased power. This is no small speculation: it's a real and credible threat.
3. Mitch McConnell is the key to resolving this. He's playing a dangerous game here - by pretending to be helpless, he is actually throwing his entire support behind Trump without facing any consequence for doing so. He could end this shut down in a day or two by simply bringing up the House bill for a vote. If the vote passes and Trump refuses to sign it, then Congress will have to decided whether to override that veto.
While we're busy watching Trump's antics, we're once again allowing McConnell to sit on the sidelines and manipulate the outcome while remaining politically unscathed. He is at least as much to blame as Trump.
6
Well done. The wall is a joke and the arguments for the wall are a joke. Unfortunately, it is making people suffer. Let Trump pay for the solution. I wonder if he would agree to pay for the wall if the FBI promised him immunity from his future prison sentence.
2
As per item #4: diverting emergency funds to pay for the wall. It appears Trump now figures that if that is done, he will not end the shutdown anyway because, after all, the Dems did nothing to solve the wall problem, so why should the Dems be rewarded?? (The Dems are being rewarded? Hunh??) And the 800,000 who did nothing to deserve having their pay stopped? Well, so what? Maybe the Dems can be arm-twisted to do a different favor?
1
How far can this President go before Republicans decide to say, "Enough!" ?
3
If we just take over the Yucatán Peninsula, make it the 51st state of the union, that would pay for the wall.
Ironically Trump has built a wall; albeit, an invisible one, around himself. And it is suffocating him. There is no exit. The horrendous part is that as a result the nation is suffering. It's a win win for the democrats the longer this absurdity continues. But it needs to end soon. We cannot afford to wait any longer because it jeopardizes our safety and security. McConnell needs to intervene and try to end it for the sake of his party and country. Trump can afford to wait it out, but we can't. Like the Berlin Wall, Trump's wall will come crashing down
1
"Trump’s wall isn’t about governing but about creating a political symbol and rallying his base." This is exactly right and cannot be emphasized enough. But "political symbol" is a euphemism. The wall is not merely a political symbol -- it is a profoundly racist one. A reach out to all the racists among his base.
We have a long, long border that wraps around the entire continental United States and which is contiguous to many people -- even (in Alaska) Russians. But Trump proposes his wall only along the Rio Grande to keep out brown-skinned people. For in Trump world, it is only people of color who threaten us.
Trump is a one-trick pony -- a con man who has only one con: diversion. Beginning with the photos showing sparse inaugural crowds, Trump asks us each and every day: "Who are you going to believe? Me or your lying eyes?"
In Trump world, the ultimate and most powerful diversion is racism -- a diversion which he will increasingly invoke, with increasing intensity, as Mueller and the Dems close in.
3
"...the White House isn’t even paying its water bills."
Don't you wish the water company would shut off their service for non-payment? That would be fun to see!
2
To paraphrase the late great Sen. Dirksen so famously said 'Million here, a million there . . .pretty soon you're talking real money"
Of course, Donnie tosses billions around like cheap suits or supplicating young women. But indeed, as you clearly state somehow we need to put $5.7 into sharper perspective. So here's my suggestion with a few ideas to spend that amount. . .
1) Trump's Folly
2) The Circular Electron Positron Collider, the "State of the Future" next generation super-collider to replace the Large Hadron Collider. This, as every knowledgeable student and certainly Mr. Trump himself knows, is the device in Cern Switzerland which has confirmed Eistein's theories, the existence of the HIggs Boson, a few Nobel laureates . . .blah, blah, blah. (Trump knew all that without CERN.)
The next generation machine is probably going to end up in Japan where they certainly know the value of higher education and are willing to invest mightily in it.. Who knows, they may get a few Nobel's of their own out of the deal.
We'll obviously we need to wall to save us from being overrun with terrorists. Yes, let Japan take the lead. Trump is only envious that Japan built a moat around their nation to keep out the terrorists. Word is he's exploring that option as well. Perhaps one between us and Canada???
1
Not every entry in the Guinness Book of World Records is something to be proud of.
2
There is no plan on how the 5.6 billion would be spent if Congress caved into Trump's demands. This would only be a down payment for a wall. The facts are there is no crisis at the border, no "national emergency". What we do have is the lowest number of people in 45 years looking to legally apply for asylum in the U.S. and a racist president portraying these people as all "terrorist, murders, rapist, gang members, and drug dealers". Trump created this so-called "crisis" to appeal to the lowest most base fears of the people that support him. Now he is willing to abuse the power of his office and hold the rest of the country hostage to please them, and only them. Trump and his supporters have rejected reality and the truth to feed their fear and hate. This is truly one of America's darkest hours.
2
Nicholas you're wrong on this statement: "This is more like a lull than a crisis." Right next to your op-ed the New York Times has an article called "Trump Claims There's A Crisis, What's the Reality?" Here's a quote from that article: "[Although] undetected illegal border crossings have dropped ... from 851,000 in 2006 to approximately 62,000 in 2016 ... However, there is one group of migrants that is on the rise: families. A record number of families have tried to cross the border in recent months, overwhelming officials at the border and creating a new kind of humanitarian crisis." There is indeed a crisis and you're ignoring your own paper's fact-checkers. Families are comprised of individuals, so if there's a record number of crossing families, the total number of migrants is very high.
Yet one more column highlighting the fact that our nation is led by a deranged dictator. Sixty per cent of us already know this and knew it when he was "elected". Perhaps writing columns such as Mr. Kristof's, and comments such as ours, make us feel a bit better, if for no other reason than to remind ourselves that none of this is normal.
But here's what I haven't seen, and it is long overdue: the column calling out Trump voters -- you know, the 40% of the nation's citizens who believe every one of the crazy lies that Mr. Kristof notes in his column? Because they are to blame for the sorry state of our nation -- not Trump, a clearly mentally ill man, and not the Republican Senate, who are all terrified of Trump's base.
It is way past time for the rest of us to call out Trump voters. There is no amount of "reaching out" to people who insist on remaining willfully ignorant, so long as their dear leader tells them that as white Christians, they are the favored Americans.
Because this is what the wall, and their continued support for Trump is all about - bigotry. And Trump knows, and Republican Senators fear, that his rabid, heavily armed base will do literally anything for him, including taking up arms against the rest of us.
It is way past time for the gloves to come off when describing Trump voters. Last week the Times quoted one of his supporters saying "He's not hurting the people he's supposed to be hurting." Well, it's time they felt a little pain for a change.
5
Yes! Trump’s wall isn’t about governing;
BUT
No! Trump’s wall is NOT about creating a political symbol and rallying his base.
Trump's wall is a GIANT distraction act to make the Mueller investigation and the criminal convictions of close associates that point to treasonous collusion disappear. It is a slight of hand act greater than David Copperfield V disappearing the Statue of Liberty in front of a live audience. https://www.iheart.com/content/2017-09-26-we-finally-know-how-david-copperfield-made-the-statue-of-liberty-disappear/
Trump's fake magic is not just about making the physical symbol of liberty disappear in front of our very eyes but threatening actual freedom from tyranny and imposing a regime of human rights violations, dirty air, and removing protections against spoiled food and harmful chemicals, and undermining the rule of law. Turning the land of the free in an actual Banana Republic was an apt metaphor.
Trump and his fellow hoodlum Republicans should be stopped dead in their tracks.
4
The wall will never happen in Big Bend country, period. An engineering and environmental nightmare, it will destroy the tourism that this part of Texas relies on. Since the wall will have to be on the US side of the river, I am sure Mexico will be more than happy to use all of the Rio Grande for their crops since we will be giving it to them. Trump might as well be talking about climbing the beanstalk...it makes as much sense.
3
Having just been in Big Bend ( I love it) you are absolutely right: we have not met one single person who wants this wall. We kept seeing signs: Resist, No Wall!
In the meantime, people cannot enjoy the National Park, a beautiful area!
Shame on all those people who don’t even live anywhere near the A/M borders, and yet, want this wall, have some compassion!
Perhaps reporters and op-ed writers are (also) feeling the effects of the mind's natural instinct to find logic in the illogical.
A continuous Wash-rinse-repeat phenomenon has taken over print media. Looking at the front page here, practically every inch of space is taken up on crafting an article around Trump's tweets; his Tweets are self-explanatory. Now this: We do not need a numbered primer of what the idiocy means.
There are far too many serious things happening in the world that needs attention. How do we find out if every column inch is merely vomiting out another iteration of a Trump Tweet?
What has actually changed on the shutdown since Tuesday's "I Have The Absolute Right to [Do] National Emergency?" Nothing.
1
Nice humorous piece by Nicholas. In these difficult times a laugh can be helpful.However I doubt the laid off Federal workers will find much mirth in this mess. A mess that Trump makes worse every day. Hopefully Nicholas will tell us very soon what most Americans and their political leaders should do about the Trump debacle.
1
Yes, anyone watching knows Trump likes to exaggerate just a little. We all know who and what he is and most of us know that this circus is being put on just for the pleasure of his immigrant hating base.
At this point, what else can he do? His base's support is his last best hope for survival.
The Democratic congress may as well get the best bargain they can and tell America it is the voter's fault for electing a man who should never have gotten his party's nomination or come within miles of even an electoral college victory in the first place.
Shame on us! His presidential run may have been the first deal he ever closed without relying on any credible false advertising. When your lies are so obvious it's almost like telling the truth.
3
McConnell is colluding, conspiring, working (whatever you want to call what he’s doing) with Trump in order to bring on the chaos that the Republican/Russian Party desires that will feed our own home grown corporate oligarchs who pay for their elections, and establish the first Trump Tyrany while claiming to “only be following the Constitution.”
The silence from the other Senate Republicans means that they are in on the take over as well. No wonder Putin does a happy dance every time he sees Trump. Democracy depends upon belief in compromise and talk. The Republican Party seems to believe in one party rule and that ain’t democracy, fellas, their “base’s love” of Trump notwithstanding.
2
"Trump's wall isn't about governing but about creating a political symbol..." And what a symbol it would be. A symbol of racism, and demonization of desperate refugees, and the attempt to humiliate a neighboring nation.
2
A few days ago, out on the lawn of the White House, before getting into the helicopter, Trump gave some twisted explanation of what « and Mexico will pay for it meant ».
He said that he « obviously » never meant that Mexico was going to « write a check ». And then went on to say that they would pay for it indirectly, via the new trade agreement. And that is what he meant during the campaign, he explained.
The shocking thing is that he even adresses the issue. And he thinks that some absurd explanation is better than just saying nothing.
2
The last option is brilliant. A reporter needs to ask him this during a press conference. It should be win-win-win for him, right?
-He gets his wall
-He makes a killing off the interest as Mexico reimburses us
-He gets to flaunt his money and build something
But of course in reality it will never happen because:
-This wall is never going to happen
-He doesn't have anywhere close to $5.7 billion
-Mexico is definitely not going to pay for this wall
149
@Solaris
Agreed. A brilliant solution—since Trump can fix everything himself and he is so hugely wealthy and successful.
22
@Solaris
trump could always get a $5.7 billion loan from Vlad's boys that he could use for a 'self-funding' of wall construction pending 'Mexican returns' -- or get the sum from those sources 'outright,' in exchange for one or more of the following: (a) taking the U.S. of A. out of NATO; (b) 'conceding' Syria to Assad, Russia and Iran; (c) formally extending U.S. recognition of Crimea as a member of the Russian Federation.
9
@Solaris According to Trump, Mexico is paying "many times over" for a "big, beautiful wall" that will never be built.
9
I implore Congress to draft a law that allows for the building of the Wall as direct payments are received from the Mexican government and only when. That way both sides can claim victory. Problem solved.
I suspect the Wall will never get enough Mexican money, but so be it.
6
It's really starting to look like the shutdown will continue until there is an actual crisis - say an airline crash - at which time panicked Republicans will finally vote to override Trump's veto.
5
Not only is this a good idea that will solve the crisis, it’s a great experiment in how effective public-private partnerships will be. If (when) the wall proves out, we can turn the the highway system!
2
This column is part of the on-going partisan attack by the NY Times on President Trump that has characterized the pages of the NY Times, both before the election and afterwards.
Doing the math is simple ($5 billion divided by the population of the USA of 327,000,000 = $15.29 per person).
If someone had a problem with break-ins into their house and someone came along and said "Gee, I can't promise that a Wall would stop the break-ins, but for $15.29 for each member of your household - and I see that you have a wife and 2 children - the cost would work out to around $61.00, for the 4 of you. So, we can try it. And of course we won't have to shut down your house until the Wall is built around your house. You can also try other solutions - and maybe, if they work, you won't have to actually install the Wall - or maybe, taken all together, they will work, with the Wall included. At $15.29 per person, it's not a lot of money. Just to try."
If Mr. Kristof is correct - that the Wall will not curtail illegal immigration - then he will be able to celebrate that President Trump was wrong - and the proof will be in the reality of the situation, and not based on his speculative opinion.
@Maurice Gatien ok maurice, lets add that to the myriad of other things we actually need. Whats the defense budget per person? education? etc.... then lets collect that exact amount from each person by share. the ones that can't pay will be exiled or eliminated. problem solved!
6
@Maurice Gatien suggests that $15.29 per person is "...not a lot of money. Just to try."
Yes, but... let's try something we expect will work.
You could use the same logic to say "$15.29 per person is not a lot of money to create a Star Trek style transporter to improve international travel." We don't pursue that because no one expects $5 billion will result in an operational transporter.
The discussion must focus on which forms of border security will be effective, not on whether $5 billion is small change.
3
@Maurice Gatien
Putting aside the absurdity for a moment:
Unfortunately, there are some families in the US who struggle to provide meals for their children, or who forego visits to a doctor because of the high cost. The thought of demanding even one dollar from these families is offensive at best.
PS: trump ran on the notion that Mexico will pay for the wall. Again, putting aside the absurdity, you want to turn around and directly bill the American people?
2
Just remember, the IRS is unable to complete Trump's audit during his shutdown, which is the sole reason he has not released his tax returns. Coincidence? I think not.
4
In 2018, the Border Patrol apprehended 403,479 illegal border crossers, but the Department of Homeland estimates the Border Patrol catches only about 50 percent of illegal border crossers. This means about 400,000 illegal immigrants eluded the Border Patrol in 2018. That’s a crisis.
Nicolas Kristof assert there is no border crises because the number of illegal border crossers is lower than peak numbers reached in previous decades. However, Illegal border crossers appended in previous decades were nearly all Mexicans. They could all be returned to Mexico within a few days of their arrest. Despite their numbers, they did not overwhelm the detention system because they spent few days in custody.
Today, most illegal border crossers are Central Americans, most of whom claim asylum when apprehended crossing the border illegally. Unlike Mexicans, Central Americans cannot be immediately returned to their home countries. Unlike illegal immigrants of 2000, they are overwhelming Department of Homeland Security detention capabilities and have to be released into the interior with notifications to appear at hearings set years into the future. This is a crisis.
@William Case Sounds like an argument for reform not a wall.
1
@Mysticwonderful
It is an argument for both a wall and reform. It is not an either/or choice. We can have both.
@Mysticwonderful
It an argument for both reform and a border wall.
There you go!! Mr. Kristoff has hit on the solution.
Privatize the wall. Sell shares to investors with returns on the investment tied directly to Mexican payments; no American tax funds or assets can be used to pay investors back.
Investors who feel Mexico will pony up the cash will be ready to send checks,and people who really, really want a wall will be ready to really, really pay for it themselves. A win for everyone.
Go to it Congress! Create the law that opens the door to privatizing the border wall. Let's get government open again.
17
@Cathy good ideas!
It's a nice turn of phrase to suggest Mr. Trump self-fund the wall and be repaid effectively in pesos. But this suggestion presupposes he has the funds in the first place. His wealth, such as it is, is based on receipts from Russian money laundered funds via Deutsche Bank and others to fund his empire. It is more a Potemkin village than money available to be fronted for a Big, Beautiful Wall. If I am incorrect, Mr. Trump, show us your tax returns and prove me wrong!
The other sticking point is even more basic. If Mr. Trump or his minions who have already gathered a few million dollars from a GoFundMe effort, had the cash, how would they get it to pay for the wall? As individuals, they do not have the authority to contract for Federal construction or act as defendents in any eminent domain conflict. All they could do is turn over the money to the government at the Bureau of Public Debt in Parkersburg, WV, cross their fingers and hope.
The responsibility for appropriation of funds and letting contracts for work rests with the Congress, implemented through legislation approved by the President or allocated through overriding a presidential veto.
So, we are back to that difficult balance of power thing with our three branches of government. And that balance of power idea rankles our President-Who-Would-Be-King.
And the shutdown churns on, a juggernaut crushing increasing numbers of our fellow precariat-citizens under its wheels.
11
Mr. Kristof's analysis of the insanity that the POTUS is promulgating on this manufactured "crisis" at the border is spot on.
Yet, with at least four bills passed by the House last week and sent to the Senate (all of which were unanimously passed prior to the shutdown), McConnell has refused to bring them to the floor for a vote. In this situation, it is clear that McConnell is equally at fault for 800,000 federal workers are left without paychecks.
The most insidious aspect of this situation is that nary a GOP senator has moved to introduce a "discharge resolution," that would allow these House-passed bills to be brought to the Senate floor for a voice vote without McConnell's approval. As noted above, of these measures had been passed through a voice vote prior to the shutdown, so they bills could easily be approved and the affected government agencies could be reopened immediately. Thus, the entire Republican party must also share the blame.
There is absolutely no excuse for holding nearly a million federal workers and government contractors hostage for the sake of supporting the POTUS' irrational, malevolent, FOX-fueled impulses. Bob Dole's sage advice to his fellow party members needs to be shouted in the hallways and on the floor of the Senate: "Enough is enough!"
Approving bills to authorize back pay is no way to mitigate this counterfeit "crisis." The general public needs these critically important services provided by these federal workers, and right now!!
38
''But a great majority of the undocumented immigrants in the country didn’t arrive by sneaking across the border, but rather came legally, often at airports, and overstayed their visas. The most beautiful of walls wouldn’t stop them''
This statement here is very true and this means that even though the USA need a border security,The wall is still not going to bring any solution.This is another way of wasting the tax payers money.
I do understand that Mr Donald Trump pressure consigning building the wall has to do with him try to fulfil his campaign promises. At least, He needs to do what he had promised the people that voted for him.This can also be seen as a plan towards the upcoming election in 2020.
But fellow Americans, According to data released by the department of homeland security. Majority of the undocumented immigrants living in the USA came in through the front border and overstayed their visas.Don't get carried away with the news about Mexicans and Central Americans crossing the USA border illegally. These are also some problems that cannot be solved easily.
10
@Sean King. There are two simple solutions to Americ’s boarder issues. 1 - hold your employers legally responsible for hiring illegals and for not collecting taxes and fees for workmen’s compensation and other requirements. They should have to responsibility to check with the Federal Government that the individual has a valid Social Security number and is eligible to legally work in the USA.
2 - Every visitor arriving at a boarder, airport or arrivals terminal, should have to provide a security bond, issued by a Lloyd’s of London registered company, and guaranteed by their country of citizenship, that they are who they claim to be and that they will leave the USA within 30 days of the date that they claim on their entry visa. If they don’t clear their bond, as claimed, bail bondsmen will be paid by the bonding company to hunt them down and return them to ICE agents. Bail bondsmen have unusually strong powers and they earn a good living catching their bonded criminals. This would be an incredible boost to US tax collection and to the insurance and bail bond industry. “Capitalism at it’s finest!”
Our current national-emergency (the one that we see unfolding now as a result of a government shutdown) is not so dissimilar to a humanitarian crisis that in going on in Hungary. Read up on it. Think about it.
6
As a lifelong Democrat who has watched with horror as Mr. Trump seeks to destroy any process that might succeed in increasing our ability to cope with reality, I propose that instead of continuing to oppose him at every step on the border and immigration, we give him a gift that scratches his greatest itch: the desire for continual self-gratification.
The approach to doing this seems relatively simple to me. A bill should be introduced in both houses called "The Donald J. Trump Border Security Act." This act would appropriate, say, twenty billion or so dollars for comprehensive border security and immigration reform in his name, enabling him to take credit for having solved our immigration and border security issues.
Said legislation would include settling DACA, re-uniting families, all the high-tech necessary to properly guard the border, some repairs to existing walls (which would have his picture plastered all over them), and whatever other bells and whistles would actually work to alleviate the pain and suffering along the border and throughout the country caused by his tantrums. He could bask in his own glory...and we could get on with other significant issues plaguing the country.
18
@Ted Lehmann
We did that in 2006 and again in 2013, the Republican party said NO, NO, NO, NO!
1
@Ted Lehmann
Yes! We all know the wall is a vanity project. Your idea tags the vanity issue and provides real solutions.why don’t smart people work in Washington?
1
@Ted Lehmann So let me get this right. You want to give the toddler in the checkout line all the candy he wants so he will stop throwing his tantrum. All that will do is guarantee more tantrums and his base will think he won.
Are you trying to get him reelected?
‘to give the news that’s fit to print, impartially, without fear or favor, regardless of party, sect, or interests involved’ - a reminder.
1. Walls don’t work.
They reduce border crossings by 85 to 95%.
2. This is not a crisis.
Consider the definition of crisis, ‘a time when a difficult or important decision must be made, a time of intense difficulty or danger’.
Rapists and potential terrorists do cross.
3. Trump is responsible for this humanitarian crisis.
No, democrats are responsible. Their policy decisions, laws, and court rulings have created the draw for the mass migration, Catch and Release being a big part of that. Fix the problem or get out of our way while we fix it. Trump zero-tolerance policy, in effect fit two months, would have decreased the draw. Democrats creating the draw has been many years in the making.
4. The president doesn’t need Congress.
No president needs Congressional approval to be our Commander-in-Chief. Past presidents ordered border forts built and troops deployed to the border. Congress has passed laws authorizing the president to declare emergencies and reallocate funds. If Congress doesn’t like this situation they have the powers to pass new laws, but certain presidential powers are outside the purview of Congress.
5. Mexico will pay for the wall.
Trump qualified that promise to make it easy to keep. America’s annual of illegal immigration is north of $100 billion, a huge potential cost savings.
1
I would like to build on your comments (no pun intended).
Mr Kristof's counterclaim that there are no terrorists crossing our orders citing experts is absolutely ludicrous. Now and during Trump's candidacy I have seen/heard hundreds of so called "experts" coming out of the woodwork extolling their learned opinions. Likely, half had real experience of any true consequence the rest relative unknowns with credentials bestowed by the media. What a country we live in possessing such a wealth of experts that remind us every day of what is going wrong in America!
On the issue of drugs coming in across our borders, literary license rules. Cartels and smugglers use any and every means to bring the goods in and that includes the immigrants. Perhaps the rationale for that statement is that a horse of cocain or heroin can't be moved by these individuals but can he unequivocally state that 5-10 kilos can't or aren't strapped to 1 out of every 50 immigrants' torsos? It's all about volume for the Cartels using these tactics and the down trodden people that we are now being told we should openly embrace for humanitarian reasons is a great pipeline to exploit.
On political promises and speeches, every single politician campaigns on promises that they know they will not and cannot deliver: lower taxes, govt spending, lower drug prices and, using metaphors. Fact checking is all the rage. Every expert knows that statistics can be skewed to suit any argument. I know because I'm an expert too.
3
@Robert Anthony
Regarding your point #2, perhaps you skimmed over it in the column but no terrorists have arrived by the border. However, let's go with your supposition that the president needs to act in a crisis. According to the CDC, almost 40,000 people were killed in shootings in 2017, pushing the rate of gun deaths in the US to the highest in more than 20 years. Shootings cost the U.S. nearly $3 billion per year in healthcare expenses. That's many more deaths than anything related to the border and sounds like a real crisis. Given that, the president needs to declare a national emergency and confiscate all guns in the country. Since you're concerned about the safety and security of U.S. citizens, I'm sure you would support that action to save lives and money.
9
@Robert Anthony
Fact free post,feel free to post all references to prove these statements.
Last week I called the offices of about ten of my NYS Congressional representatives. I asked if congress men and women were receiving their regular salaries. They were (and still are). I also asked whether they were also receiving their daily stipend for food and transportation. The answer was "Yes."
Then I called the White House and asked whether Donald and other bigwigs were still getting their salary and stipend. Once again the answer was "yes."
Why are our wealthy "leaders" still getting their salaries and daily stipends (paid by us) when over 800,000 government workers and their families aren't getting a penny? Something's wrong with this story. Why are the bigshots still getting their money when so many hard working Americans are getting nothing?
67
The answer that is even more crazy: because they are "essential".
:-)
2
I think the big litmus test for stuff Trump says is to simply ask : is this something a not-too-bright fashion model from Slovenia could think, or would believe, if you told it to her ?
If the answer is "yes", then Trump might think it, or at least might say it.
Forget about Trump. He is no longer the issue. The issue is getting rid of McConnell. That will be easier to do, and just as useful.
44
Why do insurance companies not offer insurance to cover the temporary suspension of the salaries of government workers?
7
@Ajuanesa Furloughed workers are probably entitled to unemployment insurance. Unfortunately, unpaid workers who are working are not.
13
5.7 billion is more than half of the entire 2019 budget for the Coast Guard (10.9 billion) including all operational costs (fuel, military and civilian pay, etc.) and the cost of all new boats, cutters, aircraft, electronic systems....
52
Its hard to understand why the Democrats are willing to shut down the government over a 5bn barrier which is not obviously harmful. The financial waste is small. Perhaps the 5bn is a small price to pay for a certain Trump defeat in 2020 because the assumption is that Trump's supporters will desert him in droves if they don't get a wall. If the Government shutdown starts to badly hurt the Trump base it will end. Federal employees are just pawns.
2
@Michael Cohen
Excuse me, Michael Cohen, the Democrats are not the ones who are shutting down the government. They have passed funding bills which Trump didn't sign, and more funding bills that McConnell refuses to bring up for a vote. Only a cynical political hack can make the claim that the Democrats are responsible for the shutdown.
177
@Michael Cohen Don't you remember that Trump boastfully claimed he would take full credit for a government shutdown? This, after the Senate had come to a nice bipartisan temporary funding agreement in December, which he seemed to accept, and which the House would have also accepted, but then he backed off after criticism from the likes of Ann Coulter, Rush Limbaugh et al. Would you mind telling me again, who is responsible for this current impasse?
98
@Michael Cohen
The wall is harmful. If you looked at the border between Mexico and the US, you would see that much of it is in the middle of the Rio Grande. Building a wall in the middle of a river is not practical, so the wall would need to be built a mile or more inland because alluvial soil does not readily support steel beams, leaving many families living on the river stranded in a no-man’s land where they would have to line up for hours every day to go through a border checkpint that might be miles away to take their children to school or even to buy a loaf of bread. What if they had a medical emergency? There would be no doctors or hospitals in no-man’s land. These people are US citizens. What about their rights? And $5 billion is only a small down payment. Given the terrain along much of the border, building a wall will be costly if it is even possible. Estimates are that a complete wall the height Trump wants could cost $100 billion, which would be far better spent on replacing or repairing aging infrastructure in this country. So yes, there is harm in wasting money on needless things while not spending money on needed things.
27
Congress must never give in to extortion, and that is what this is. If they do, then there will be no end to this behavior from Trump and future Presidents. "Give me what I want or I will hurt innocent people." Apparently Trump now takes orders from Ann Coulter and conservative talk radio. We need to start focusing on McConnell too, because he, as much as Trump, is letting this happen. He could easily bring a bill to fund the government, and there probably would be enough support to override any veto. The GOP has surrendered to an extortionist, and Trump has surrendered to the conservative radio hosts that his base listens to.
197
@Tim
Spot on. In 1995, Senate Majority Leader Bob Dole famously intervened in the standoff between President Clinton and Speaker Gingrich with the phrase “enough is enough”, adding that it was time to get the government back to work. Something like that is surely needed now, though one suspects that such clarity and courage will not come from Mr. McConnell.
Your point about Trump's willingness to be dictated to by conservative talk show hosts is also well made. In some countries, it is a state-run media which is the cause for concern. In the US, however, the problem would appear to be the media-run state.
113
Let's build the wall.
On one condition!
Make it super easy to tear down because five minutes after Trump is out of office, we're ripping it down, even if we all meet at the border with sledgehammers and do the job ourselves.
This is America, not Stalinist Russia or Communist East Germany.
45
@pjd. Spot on! No wall now or ever. In a few years we will have the resources to monitor the border with electric devices and to have a big ugly useless piece of metal standing between Mexico and the US will be nothing more than a monument to one man’s vanity and stubborn will.
In 2017, the last year for which I have seen figures, more than 72,000 people in the United States died as the result of an overdose. Mr. Trump’s new-found concern about this does not appear to address the obvious factor that there is an opioid crisis in America precisely because an unknown but substantial number of Americans are addicted to opioids.
However justified the security concerns may be in regard to the southern border, the drug problem itself will not be resolved, or even ameliorated, by the simple expediency of building a wall. If the President is genuine in his concerns, then his administration needs to implement readily available and fully-funded programmes to address the issue of addiction in the US. Surely this would be initiative of which all Americans could approve.
33
He epitomises the definition of a paper tiger who after being derided by some subversive elements, now, with hand on heart, has brought the country to a standstill. No concern about penalising innocent people denying them their daily bread and all other necessities of life that arise. All the disruption being the result of the constant mendacious rhetoric he convinced a certain element of the populace who had no idea of his subterfuge. Now it's a matter of GOP losing face, encouraging him to be defiant, no matter they let him run wild since day 1. In the final analyses I don't believe it's the money as much as the whole thing was predicated on lies which the Democrats rightfully find galling but hopefully some resolution will be agreed to.
17
@Alice Lodge The only resolution will be when Trump capitulates.
'The White House isn’t even paying its water bills', pleasantly ironic for a president with a scatological sense of humor.
1. 'Terrorists are crossing the border and'...Here you could add whether they are planning to abduct our women, and steal our guns;
2. 'A Big Beautiful Wall' to lull the audience to sleep when the building of such walls is an immorality. It defeats the concept of what America stands for, and we can enhance Border security by other measures;
3. It certainly is a 'Humanitarian Issue' involving the safety and well-being of women and children, staring at us in the face, and would have been better addressed by another administration;
4. 'I, Trump' declare that it is my right to call on Congress if and when needed.
5. Funds for the Wall - America could use $5 billion in combating poverty and hunger; improving our educational system and health care; rebuilding our Country, and more.
The Government Shut-Down is real and true. Some Americans are beginning to feel the impact. If this Administration can roll up its sleeves and get to work, it would be a step in the right direction.
Thank you, Mr. Kristof, for your latest attempt to bring back a sense of support and strength to our Nation under siege.
26
Immigration policy has been the most persistent, irresolvable, and weighty policy problem of the last 30 years. Thousands of immigrants have died at the border. Eleven million illegals are of uncertain status. The treatment of Central American immigrants is scandalous. And the failure to resolve all these problems is a 30 year tragedy.
Trump doesn’t look at the problem this way. But we need to. And shutting down the government to address what is a monumental problem is not even remotely frivolous.
The first issue raised during the Trump presidency was refugee policy. And it’s come up over and over again. If you think furloughed government employees are a bigger issue, you don’t get it.
3
@michjas
Actually, a bigger issue would be Mr. Trump's apparent unawareness of the Constitutionally-specified appropriations process and his eagerness to bypass our elected Congress. Making it an even bigger issue is the way he equates presidential authority with a personal right to operate however he wants.
52
@michjas, I disagree that illegal immigration even comes close to being one of our biggest problems. Immigration, including undocumented immigrants, have been flowing in the opposite direction for ten plus years. We do have a problem (created by the Trump administration) of adhering to international law on refugees, and we have a persistent problem with what to do with approximately 11 million people already here illegally.
I think we should do what Ronald Reagan did--provide a pathway to citizenship. We need to encourage anyone here illegally to come out of the shadows and become part of our legal workforce. We should also enforce E-Verify with real consequences for employers. Lack of job opportunities would be the most effective wall imaginable. I propose that we begin by raiding the dairy farms in Steve King's district.
43
Another casualty of the Trump shutdown is E-Verify. Nobody is tending the website or processing submissions.
1
When it is now conclusive from Twin Studies at UT and UMinn that at least 70% of a person's personality and cognitive skills are genetic, $57,000 a year for pre-K and $10,000 extra for Special Ed is a lot to try to boost the remaining 30% or less. And we know, the benefits usually diminish by Jr. High School. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. Will we NEVER learn?
1
It has also been documented that children whose parents spend time talking with, and reading to them, have much larger vocabularies; but perhaps you don’t consider reading well, and early, to be a useful skill. Note that Mr. Kristin wrote “at risk” children; children in affluent school districts typically receive a better education than children in poor communities. And that 30% of one’s personality that is shaped by nurture is still a significant fraction of the entire person. See? Math! And I don’t believe the claim that early learning fades later in a child’s school career. AND a good teacher and school can often address neglect and abuse.
19
@steve: 98% of our genes are the same as in chimpanzees.
It makes more sense to focus on the changable things, not the unchangable ones.
And I would ask you to read the studies more diligently. To say generally, 70% of a person's personality and cognitive skills are genetically determined, is distorting the findings. There are huge differences between cognitive skills, just to name one problem with your statement. Secondly, cognitive skills are hugely overrated (I'm saying this as a member of Mensa and Triple9), when talking about success, happiness and value for the society.
6
@steve, no, there are no conclusive studies on the percentage of cognitive skills that are inherited.
Where on earth do you spend $57,000 a year for pre-K?
What do you mean by an ounce of prevention?
I would like to compliment President Trump on his tremendous success! He has always used superlatives like biggest, best, richest, world's greatest, and so forth.
Well, the President just created the longest government shutdown in American history! Wow!! Let's all celebrate Mr. Trump's incredible achievement at dinner this evening over food that may or may not have been inspected.
65
I must admit I always get confused with Trump's stance on this. Whether or not we have a crisis should not depend on the stance of Chuck and Nancy. We either have a crisis or we don't.
If my home is filling with smoke, I don't wait until the neighbors see flames shooting through the roof.
14
Has anyone else entertained the following perspective? The current shutdown tantrum is a tactic to disrupt us without appearing to be an external attack?
24
@PJAdams
Yes, or even worse to "inadvertently" facilitate an external attack, particularly on IRS and other government servers.
12
@Grennan Yes, I saw the CNET post about the Fed website certificates that have or will expire...many could be harmed by this.
40,000 people die from guns each year in the U.S. so it would make sense for the Democrats to shut the government until assault weapons are banned. But doing that, like Trump's wall, isn't governing. And since it was Trump that made the demand, he simply can't govern. A president who can't govern has to be removed.
69
If the need for more borders walls are necessary, according to the President's perspective, then why are the Governors of Texas, New Mexico, Arizona and California completely silent and NOT providing support for the President on this issue?
58
At this point, I'm actually more frustrated with Sen. McConnell than with Trump. Although Trump got us into this mess, the government could be completely open right now if McConnell would allow a vote.
I also hold McConnell more responsible because, of the two, he seems to have a better idea of the consequences of his actions.
114
@Susan: McConnell may be tired of Trump’s untrustworthiness and has decided to let the great deal maker figure it out all on his own. At some point, if enough GOP Senators to make it veto-proof are willing to force the issue (a big problem in their next primary), maybe Mitch will call for a vote.
11
@ThePB Or McConnell is earning his 3.5 Million Dollars that Russia gave him by helping Trump destroy America. So far Trump actions over the last 2 years have been very harmful to America her people and her position in the world.
2
What is the cost of trying to integrate poorly educated illegal migrants and asylum seekers into our society? How much does it cost to supplement the income of a poorly educated couple with 4 - 6 children?
How much does it take to educate their children? Research has shown that, in general, the children of less educated parents require more educational resources. How much over the usual cost of educating students does it take to teach them English, and to teach children whose parents come from a culture that does not place a high priority on education and who have less than a grade school education? How does having so many resources being directed towards these students affect other students?
How much are we spending on their medical care? Are they crowding hospital emergency rooms and taking beds from other patients? What proportion of county health clinic resources are they using? Many of them work in physically demanding jobs … jobs that could be done by or made easier by robots.
Employers find it cheaper to hire the undocumented than to improve working conditions. Who will pay for their workers' medical care as their bodies wear out?
Many of the undocumented who pay payroll taxes (but do not earn enough to pay income taxes) have been receiving cash from the IRS under the EITC and the Child Tax Credit. Taxpayers are supplementing the undocumenteds’ wages.
What are the hidden costs of accepting these migrants?
Even if this were true, the wall is not going to further the goal of keeping them out in a way that has any ROI. It’s going to be well north of $50B, and then the only thing that will make it actually work is the manpower and drone power surveillance that we could have $50B more of without the wall. It’s an environmentally disastrous billboard for Trump and nothing more. Democrats aren’t saying open borders. They are saying humane immigration policy and spend our border security dollars on tactics that actually work outside of a stump speech.
And let’s say we could wave a magic wand and keep them all out - maybe you could read Anne Frank’s diary and ask what are the hidden costs of NOT accepting them. Sure, there are costs. There are also huge benefits - cheap labor is critical to many of our industries, and will be for a while - once the robots come we will all have issues. While some immigrants are a drain, many are also a source of real value - they are hardworking, enterprising, innovative and brave, characteristics not every American has.
And, sometimes a society accepts some costs for the sake of just doing the moral thing. Sure, we can’t fix everything for everyone, but we can be humane.
America stands for something. And we’re not being made any greater by erecting the Berlin Wall along our southern border.
47
You make your case using rhetorical questions because you don’t have facts that explain the scale of your fears.
Yes, you can find anecdotal examples of the things you’re afraid of, but illegal immigrants are not even close to being the biggest problem in our educational, medical or tax systems.
If you want to improve our country, why not make the biggest difference you can by directing your time and energy toward solving one of the numerous more damaging problems we have?
31
@John Deel
I am not an investigative reporter. I do not have the expertise to locate the facts. If the media were not acting as an advocate for illegal immigrants, reporters would have been investigating these questions.
The Inspector General for the Treasury Department conducted research on how much the IRS paid to illegal immigrants in the fiscal year 2010, just under the Child Tax Credit (not the Earned Income Tax Credit). He found the IRS paid them $4.2 billion dollars, and said this was helping to lure people to migrate here illegally. (See a video of an Eyewitness News Investigation on youtube titled "Part one: 13 Investigates IRS tax loophole”.)
Many Americans are now asking for Medicare- for-all, paid maternity leave, and free child care. The countries that offer these have traditionally been very careful to limit citizenship primarily to people who could pay hefty taxes to help support the government programs. For example, Canada has very few illegal immigrants, and chooses most of its legal immigrants on a merit system. It looks for immigrants who have special knowledge or skills that they can contribute to the Canadian economy. Consequently, it can afford its health care system.
A country cannot afford to offer the services many Americans are now demanding, and also accept the multitude of poorly educated people who have illegally moved here. Professors at Yale’s School of Management estimate that we could now have over 29 million illegal immigrants.
The wall is clearly just an ego thing for Trump and an effort to excite his most hysterical fans. His justifications for it are laughable.
But I'm am happy to read Mr. Kristof recognize that border security is important, and I think that Ms. Pelosi's comments about the immorality of a wall are silly.
Democrats: you need to defeat Trumpism, and recognizing basic realities such as the need for a sovereign nation to carefully manage its borders increases your appeal to the independent voters you must have to win the next election.
5
Just a thought from a citizen of the country to your north. Even if (and that is a very big if) everything The Donald, Coulter. Hannity and company contend is true and this is an emergency (I told you it was big if) even if you financed this "dream" wall for say 50 billion dollars it would still take years and years to build.And while building that wall you can always fondly remember how successful a real estate developer was the instigator of the wall.
23
After listening to several different reports about what the people living on the border want I have concluded that Trump and the GOP are suffering from collective auditory and visual hallucinations. They see caravans of rapists, arsonists, and drug dealers where there are none. They are imagining people with guns, drugs, knives, etc., pouring over the southern border foaming at the mouth at the thought of all the American blood they can spill and all the American goods they can steal. They are imagining a world that doesn't exist for the rest of us. Perhaps they've been inhaling the wrong fumes for the last 2 years because, if anything, the numbers of people coming here over that particular border are not in the hundreds of thousands.
Everyone wants to be secure. We know immigration reform is needed. But shutting down the government to get what the GOP and Trump think is needed is an example of using a hammer to smash the doorknob when all that's needed is a tap on the door.
Human needs haven't changed that much since the dawn of our species. We need food, warmth, shelter, security, and the feeling that someone cares about us. So far the GOP and Trump haven't met those simple needs for us. The 1% are not the only people in America who are worthy of having full, happy lives.
62
As a compromise, I’d be willing to offer $2B if he’ll release his tax returns.
32
This is not about the wall, for either Democrats or Republicans. $5.7 billion is a rounding error for a government that spends $10 billion each day. The Democrats were all for funding a wall when President Obama proposed one 5 years ago. Pelosi and Schumer were in favor of the proposed 700-mile "fence." Even Obama said building a 700-mile fence on the southern border was consistent with the principles of the Democratic Party. But now it's immoral?
2
@J. Waddell. 5.7 billion is not the cost of the wall. It is the ante up to get in the game. There cannot be a financial estimate when you don't have a decision as to which wall, how long, what environmental modifications are required.
54
@J. Waddell....What is the purpose of $ 5.7 billion for a wall? You certainly can't complete the wall for $5.7 billion, and in any case a wall won't solve the problem of illegal immigration. So what is the real purpose? It is obviously symbolic. And symbolic to what purpose? Is it to be a symbol of American resentment toward immigrants? A symbol of our disdain toward our southern neighbors? Is it a symbol to satisfy Trumps ego? In any case the wall as a symbol is immoral.
18
@J. Waddell, you're repeating a myth that's gotten a lot of traction on the right recently. President Obama never proposed a wall. You seem to be talking about the Secure Fence Act that passed in 2006 under Bush. Obama administered the law by adding about 700 miles of fencing, which was his job as president.
There's nothing inconsistent about refusing to give into a $5.7 billion dollar ransom demand. If Trump wants to negotiate both immigration reform and a wall, he should do so. Negotiations done in good faith involve give and take, not extortion. Meanwhile, he should open the government while he negotiates.
20
Just a reality check. Donors? Since a Senate race can be tilted with $5-10 million, can you imagine any donor laying out that much and being, at most, one of 1,000? As for his 60 million voters, many of them agreed with Sam a/k/a Joe the plumber (he wasn't) complaining about a Tiny increase in marginal tax rates. Also, his number of donors could not have been more than a million, if that.
But Trump voters didn't mind his failure to pay contractors, and probably think most government employees are lazy or useless.
12
Before the shutdown, the Senate passed an original bill in December to keep the Government open 100-0. The real reason the government is shut down is because the Senate is ignoring that they should be voting on a bill to keep the government open! Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) could bring a “clean” funding bill to the floor, free up his GOP caucus to support it and could quite possibly secure enough votes to override a presidential veto. Passing legislation on to the Executive branch knowing it most likely would not be signed under Obama’s presidency was not a problem.
56
@Gary
There’s no such thing as a “clean” funding bill. That’s just rhetorical nonsense.
The reason that "the wall" is immoral is that in reality it is and always has been a metaphor for "keeping the dark-skinned Spanish-speaking people" out of the United States. That is why there is no "crises" with the Visa violators from Europe. That is why there is no clamor to build a wall along our border with the Whitelandia to our North - even though more actual terrorists have come from that direction. Donald Trump knows exactly the message he is sending. Trump's base knows the message he is sending them. To deny their racism is to ignore reality.
45
@Charles L.
Virtually all of the "dark-skinned, Spanish speaking" illegal immigrants have little education, and so compete for the lowest skilled jobs. Our own citizens and legal immigrants, including many with dark skin, need and are more than willing to take these jobs.
The Harvard economist, George Borjas, found that the rate of African-American employment decreased as the number of undocumented workers increased.
Borjas also found that the wages of our lowest paid workers went down (relative to inflation) as the number of undocumented workers increased.
Illegal immigration negatively impacts our working class and poor citizens, including many with dark skin.
@ann, you're referencing George Borjas, a controversial figure whose work has been regularly debunked but served as a foundation for Trump's cutting legal immigration in half.
Trump appeals to racial anxiety in this country with his wall. Rightwing populist demagogues always find a scapegoat, generally a marginalized group (dark-skinned, speaking another language, etc.) and they always demonize immigrants. Do you agree with Trump's policy of cutting legal immigration in half?
1
@Charles L.
It’s not a metaphor for anything. It’s just a wall that help’s the Border Patrol enforce the law.
Oh Nick
1) Fewer people crossed the border in 2017 -- that's likely because of the 600 miles of wall started in 2006 and voted for by Chuck, Obama and HRC. It is interesting that the decline in crossings correlates with the wall being built so maybe it was a greater emphasis on prevention that caused the decline?
2) The Visa overstays comp doesn't hold water. The number of VIsa overstays currently exceeds the # of border apprehensions, but border apprehensions are an underestimate of total crossings. More important, do the visa overstays take up residence here illegally or eventually return home. It's not the annual number, it's how many stay forever vs how many of those crossing the southern border stay permanently. What % of all illegals living here are overstays?
3) Gov shutdown is irrelevant to the humanitarian crisis on the border. I don't agree with the separation of families. BUT -- issue starts with people bringing their families here trying to enter illegally. If we made it clear they won't be able to enter, they will be less likely to make the risky trek here.
4) Trump hasn't taken money from anyone to fund wall -- he hasn't declared an emergency. The wall may be symbolic -- but also might be effective. Unless you are pro open borders then it is legitimate to take measures to control border & a wall is possibly part of a solution (Obama, Hrc, Chuck thought so in 2006).
5) While we need a cost ben analysis, your idea is ludicrous.
1
@Ralphie
1. Regardless of the reason for the slowdown, the situation today is not an emergency, as Trump claims.
2. Illegal immigration has been at net zero for quite some time. and regardless of the number of visa overstays, a wall won't deal with them.
3. People don't migrate frivolously. If you discourage refugees you doom them to conditions they are fleeing from. That's an inhuman position.
4. "Might be effective" doesn't hold water against all the arguments against it.
5. His idea is satire. Rightwing humor = oxymoron.
19
@Ralphie
Ralphie, you should check on how previous funds for border security were used - and why they were effective. Probably the most important improvement was a doubling of the number of Border Patrol officers....
My sister lives in a small town 10 miles north of the border in AZ. As of ten years ago, there were motion detectors located EVERYWHERE throughout the desert in unsettled areas.
The last time I visited her, we headed north on the main road out of town on a Sunday morning, and went through a road block manned by the Border Patrol; this was standard procedure.
If you've reviewed the information provided by the Times, I am sure you noted that various fences have been installed across the southern borders of California, Arizona, and New Mexico, on FEDERAL LANDS.
There are next to no fences across Texas, because most of the land on the border is PRIVATE PROPERTY, which probably explains the lack of official support for "the wall".
18
@Jerry Engelbach emergency it isn't -- but it is like your roof is leaking and you've let it slide for years -- the leak isn't going to get better by itself but it isn't going to crash your roof tomorrow, but a month from now, a year --
2) visa overstays and southern border crossings are two different issues. The left only uses Visa overstays to defend not defending our border
3) No one says it is frivolous -- it is dangerous and demanding. So-- you want to encourage people to make that journey?
4) The evidence that a wall might be effective -- it appears that the number of crossings have declined since 2006 with the secure border fences act which put in 600 miles of fence (HRC, Obama and Chuckie voted for it). Proving that one thing makes a difference is difficult re any outcome but common sense suggests that a wall is part of the solution.
5) Nick isn't good at satire.
Mary -- and your point is?
''House Speaker Nancy Pelosi was wrong to describe a wall as “an immorality,” - NO, she wasn't.
The whole concept of keeping out ''them'' is outdated as is the concept of money itself. This planet is hurtling towards demise at the hand of man, while policy after policy of consumption (resources, environment, people, drugs, war, etc...) further exacerbates the pain inflicted.
There are corrupt governments and failed governments and incompetent governments all achieving the same thing. - again, our demise.
We are going to have to come together right quik to save ourselves, and walls are not going to do that. Soon we will be clamoring over ourselves INSIDE the walls for the last of the resources. (especially water)
Our choice.
5
Trump can pay for it himself, in a manner of speaking. He can front the $5.7 Billion, borrowing it from his Russian banking buddies. Then, when Mexico does write that check, he can pay back those loans. If he doesn't make his payments, then the Russians can do whatever it is they do to loan scammers (and that might solve the next Trump initiated problem before it starts)
25
Better still, outsource the building to Trump enterprises.
Then he can stiff the contractors and the wall will end up costing nothing.
28
1. Barack Obama's former head of the Border Patrol, Mark Morgan, wants the wall to be built. So does the current Border Patrol. It will not be perfect, they say, but it will help. They know more than either Kristof or me.
2. It is a humanitarian crisis when numbers of families making dangerous crossing of Mexico and ignoring Mexican offers of asylum are rising hugely, according to NYT.
3. President is the Commander of Chief, and borders are a military issue.
4. Mexico may not pay for the wall directly, but could certainly pay via a 50% tax on cash remittances from the USA back to Mexico without showing valid US residency card. CNN reports $24 billion sent in remittances in 2016.
5. One terrorist or gang member crossing illegally is one too many.
2
@Observer of the Zeitgeist
1. Of course the Border Patrol wants a wall. Just as cops want more guns and jails.
2. The humanitarian crisis begins in their home countries, with the conditions from which they are fleeing. Mexican authorities have not been kind to the refugees at all.
3. That's the weakest argument. Authority is no guarantee of integrity or wisdom.
4. In other words, punish the immigrants. How humane of you.
5. The foreign terrorists in the US all entered legally.
@Observer of the Zeitgeist, why doesn't Trump just put up a GoFundMe page for his wall? I'm sure his many supporters would love to contribute, and it would mean the rest of us can get on with our lives without this boondoggle.
You still think Mexico will pay for the wall!
The wall is Trump's Achilles' heel, and he is incapable of letting it go. Democrats should talk as little as possible about it and minimize any work associated with ending the standoff. Let Trump and his GOP drown in their own bile. Every day forward will be one more day toward Trump's demise. When enough pain has been inflicted on the country, House Democrats should impeach Trump and let the GOP-led Senate vote against conviction. Then let the American people decide what to do. Apparently, we have not yet experienced enough pain. So let the pain continue as long as it has to. Eventually there will be a breaking point. Let the GOP break. The decision about what to do with Trump and his feckless GOP should be in the hands of the American people. In order for that to happen, the shutdown must continue. This is no longer business as usual.
9
Maybe a handful of those billion hedge fund managers will step up and fund the wall, now known as peaches. They owe their largesse to the current despot’s party.
6
Can we please have fewer articles about the craziness of the incumbent (like we aren’t drowning in his dysfunction enough?) and more on the real perpetrators of the current problem, i.e. the Senate Republican leadership? Please.
51
Excellent column as usual, but I think you made one mistake.
Trump will be borrowing the money from his Russian friends in order to pay for the wall since he likely has a negative net worth at this point (figuratively and literally).
This introduces a neat little conundrum: Should the US then pay Trump, or pay the Russians directly with the money we get from Mexico? And should we continue to have the Russians "help" us with our elections as well?
Or should we wait until the aliens land and have them build the wall with their transmogrifier guns?
www.remember-to-breathe.org
7
1. Even if drug smuggling were occurring in places where a beautiful, 30-foot wall would be built, catapults were around from medieval times, too.
2. A person coming in late on a conversation about how important the wall would be to prevent dangerous criminals from coming over the border and killing citizens could reasonably conclude that the discussion is about the need for strong gun control within the U.S.
10
Maybe former presidents Jimmy Carter and George W. Bush could stage an intervention. Maybe former speaker John Boehner could provide some flashcards teaching how the appropriations process works.
It obviously would be counterproductive for the last two Democratic presidents to try, although as law school grads their input might be more intellectually interesting.
Remember, emergency or not, there appears to be no legal way for a U.S. president to be halted from "doing first strike". If we're intellectually honest, that should be terrifying. It's no good saying "someone would stop him" because that's relying on an unconstitutional ad hoc measure.
Hard-wired into many of the powers available to U.S. presidents is the concept they will be used by a person of cogency, integrity and good faith.
7
A wall between long time allies is immoral, just as Speaker Pelosi said. As for your other points, of course, one can always find Trump contradicting himself on any topic. The tragedy is that 60+ million US citizens could not see the contradictions or did not care.
22
The wall is about more than immigration. People keep trying to find ways to finance it not through Congress. But it is not just financing it that is the issue. It is the wall itself unrelated to immigration. Be do a terrible job at protecting our habitat. Monarch butterflies down to 30,000 migrants this year: the butterflies may not survive. However, we are dependent on water
Much bigger fights than immigration are coming and they will be about water . (The stuff California wastes so they cannot fight wildfires). What government purposefully walls OUT it's water resources??
8
I think this could be solved with the use of the internet. Yes, the ole' solution used every day: crowdsourcing or whatever it's is called crowdfunding. Yes, let his base send him the money to pay for the wall. As an incentive, donors could have their name inscribed on the wall and the town where they are from. Mark Burnett, the producer of the "Apprentice", can televise the construction of he the wall and have a guest once a month, through a drawing meet Trump. Food truck vendors can come from all over America to feed the workers. Let's turn this into a"Make America Great Again" event. It can't be any worse than the circus we have in DC.
10
@Nicholas
The only problem with your suggestion is that the wall cuts off animal migration routes, working to destroy the ecosystem along the border. Should we worry about that? It's not enough that Trump is tirelessly working to wreak havoc with the political ecosystem of the country?
17
@Blue Moon Excellent point about the animal migration. I don't think I've heard anything about that topic ever since the toddler in chief started campaigning. Thanks.
Trump will soon declare a "national emergency." Lindsey Graham has offered the "tell." The courts will strike down Trump's wall, eventually. Trump will tell his base that he tried, but Democrats are the ones compromising national security and they must be blamed. We move on, again squarely on the road to nowhere.
Let's face it. Trump is desperate to get back to the golf course. I give this one more week, tops. Besides, Trump can already tag his name to the longest government shutdown, ever. It's just one more bright and shiny object for his treasure chest, and he already has it in hand.
20
The wall is a pretext to shut down the government. And for Trump/Republicans to demonstrate that the country can manage with a pared down government. They know full well that the so-called tax reform has shorted the government of needed and essential revenue. Already we're seeing the effects in a $1 Trillion-a-year rise in the federal debt. They can't cut social security and Medicare earned benefits to reduce the shortfall--but they can reduce the number of people and programs served by cutting and privatizing government including killing the ACA. This is their cynical long game. Don't be fooled.
22
Trump is using "the Wall" to shut down the Democratic Congress and the Dems are co-operating. The Dems need to bring their plans/ideas to the public.
5
@Kathleen O'Neill
I agree. The Democrats are falling into the same trap that the Republicans did trying to repeal Obamacare. They just look like obstructionists.
@Kathleen O'Neill
The Democrats in the House, unlike our President, can and do chew gum and walk at the same time. Since assuming office less than two weeks ago, they have passed multiple bills (which Mitch McConnell has refused to put up for a vote in the Senate) that would put an end to the government shutdown. They have also passed a sweeping ethics in government act and questioned Steve Mnuchin about Trump's decision to ease sanctions on Oleg Deripaska, one of Putin's oligarch pals involved in subverting the 2016 U.S. election. They have also begun exercising the legislative oversight over the administration that was almost completely absent under Paul Ryan. Trump's swamp extends as far as the eye can see. But the House Democrats have already set to work on the onerous task of draining it.
8
@Kathleen O'Neill Right. I like Nicholas Kristof's solution, don't you?
"House Speaker Nancy Pelosi was wrong to describe a wall as “an immorality,” for we need border security, and a wall in some places can be effective."
The Speaker has used this language on a number of occasions, but a week ago Friday, she stated that the wall was immoral because it was not effective in its purpose, not effective in its cost in terms of opportunity cost of Federal dollars (specifying budget impacts to the likes of Medicare and Medicaid and changes to clean air and clean water regulations), and the promise that Mexico was meant to pay for the wall.
With that fuller commentary a case can certainly be made that the Speaker was right to call the wall an immorality.
52
@Cynthia
Is it worth the cost of a government shut down? If not, it is immoral not to compromise.
Trump forgot to mention going UNDER a concrete wall. Having once lived in Tucson. we were always amazed at the quality of tunnels drug smugglers built in border towns. Indeed, when the Tucson City Council once considered building a tunnel at a busy intersection to decrease traffic congestion, many of us suggested that the drug smugglers be hired. The other question that permeated the city: "How are we going to find enough people to build a wall?" Answer: "Illegals."
32
@Mike S.: If you look on Google Earth, on the roads east out of Tucson into the hills, on one road there is a sign that posts the warning,
“TRAVEL CAUTION: Smuggling and illegal immigration may be encountered in this area.”
One Tucson resident told me, if you see some suspicious people wearing backpacks, just ignore them.
Our relationship with Mexico, and, indeed, Latin America, goes back a long way. Trump and his dumb supporters have no concept of that. At one time, people just crossed the border... either way.
I’d personally like to return to that time. Trump lies to his constituency. Drugs: there is a big market for drugs in the U.S. With that market, we won’t stop drug flow i to the U.S. Terrorism: We already have a handle on that, but trump’s closure of the U.S. government diminishes that. It’s not from Latin America.
8
@Mike S.
Then why not just build the wall? Both sides are at fault.
@Greg, because it would be a $30 billion boondoggle that would never be effective, just as it would never be finished. We already have fencing where it makes sense. It doesn't make sense across 2,000 miles.
I think @Mike S. made two important points: 1) smugglers dig tunnels under the fences (in San Diego they dig new tunnels more quickly than agents can close old tunnels); 2) we need undocumented immigrants to keep our economies working.
2
I think some sort of "wall"or security fence on the Mexiccan border makes sense, not for the Trumpian reasons you list. But even if all of the listed arguments were valid, it would still not justify the government shutdown. It's not like someone claiming that there needs to be a fence around a swimming pool and until there is one the pool will remain closed. The government shutdown has nothing to do with the wall, other than the fact that Trump is using federal employees as hostages to get his wall. In my book that's a crime.
40
@Jay Orchard You said:
“It’s not like someone claiming that there needs to be a fence around a swimming pool and until there is one the pool will remain closed.”
This lame analogy triggered a traumatic memory from my Southern childhood. Thousands of public swimming pools were closed rather than being forced to integrate. When the non-racist public agitated to reopen them, they were filled in and paved over. Argument over, but no solution for drownproofing any whose families couldn’t afford private pools.
The wall is based on the same racist thinking, and would cause similar damage.
The 5+ billion is not of importance on a national budget level. Many donors could pony up that amount if they thought it would do any good. The real solution from trump's point of view is a WALL: border to border. This is an issue of much greater financial import. To think that 150 billion would cover it is laughable not to mention the upkeep (never forget that the wall would have to be as deep as it is tall and then some). Let's see the actual bill to build a WALL. No doubt this would put a lot of Americans to work (where their time and our money would be better spent rebuilding our failing infrastructure) but at least we would have a monument almost equal to what the Chinese built 2000 yrs ago (the finishing of which marked the downfall of the shang dynasty). It won't stop any of the problems we are concerned with but it will prove trumpicans wrong and perhaps, after employing many loyal Americans, people will see that we need other solutions to the problems of America's incessant desire for illegal narcotics and cheap, illegal labor. Don't worry about the hundreds of thousands of lives damaged in the process as they are merely the cannon fodder of people like dICK cheney and carl rove. It is infinitely important that America's richest get much richer at the public trough.
This wall proposal is just one more way to funnel money into the richest pockets in this now failing nation.
20
Hello Nicholas and a Happy New Year.
You're title "Trump’s Five Craziest Arguments About the Shutdown" assumes trump has some sane arguments.
The title should read "Trump’s Five Most Craziest Arguments About the Shutdown".
10
Now that Trump has stated his intent to build the wall with existing disaster funds, his refusal to sign a spending bill and reopen government is clearly nothing more than attempt to force Democrats into submission.
34
Other options:
1) Get Obama to say that building the wall was his idea. Trump will drop his demand for the wall like a hot potato, since his main delight is to work against anything favored by his predecessor.
OR (a variant of Kristof's proposal):
2) The Democratic House could enact a bill to fund the wall completely, with the money coming from a surtax on the super-rich.
210
@JK
You first have to get Trump's full attention. When an ordinary person does not pay his water bill the water is cut off. Apply that to the White House and Trump might notice.
7
@JK. Your proposals are perfect.
1
This latest stunt by Trump makes one thing clear: the majority of people that support Trump only read headlines and do not take the time to understand the depth and details of the long news articles that would inform they of the facts. Trumps relies on the support of people that only listen to sound bites, and easy to understand 4th grade level statements.
69
The president is being used by Mitch McConnell. He is hiding behind the president’s lame justifications for the record-shattering shutdown.
One might actually posit the evil motivation behind the president’s willingness to prolong the work stoppage: to provide cover for the Senate Majority Leader. Donald Trump’s ace under the table is his 35%-40% approval rating. By taking the public relations hit for McConnell, the president stacks up IOU’s from the Kentucky Senator for future bargaining. The Republican-heavy Senate is McConnell’s to command; they stand with the president, regardless of the anxiety that may be quietly building in their ranks as folks back home may be getting antsy about their personal finances.
This clueless president will permanently sidetrack the government—because he can. He has no valid reason to do it—so, in the alternative reality of Donald Trump’s universe, perversity is its own reward.
So while the president takes center stage—it’s all he’s ever wanted—McConnell can slide behind the veil of non-denial deniability and blame the minority Democrats for their “partisan political” stunts. It’s all of a piece, of course. The president is clearly proving to the extreme Right that Ronnie Reagan was right: “government does not work“—and in this case, in which so many citizens are suffering needlessly, we are now seeing that “no government” is its own self-fulfilling prophecy.
25
How pathetic for McConnell to hide behind a statement that he won't give Trump a bill that won't be signed! Why doesn't he try crafting a bill, do PR for it, even try convincing Donald privately that they have to break through the impasse (rhetorically speaking)? Would McConnell have shirked his duties had he anticipated a Democratic president not signing a bill (ditto)?
Someone who gives cop outs like that shouldn't have 'leader' in their title!
Thanks, as always, for what you wrote.
1
Really great essay, Nick, and, of course, extremely disturbing that all of us are in this “nice mess”, as Oliver Hardy would have said.
Speaking of Sir Winston, we have to revisit his statement that democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others. Man, are we really worst. Yes, we are a third world country that deserves ridicule. Thank the Almighty God that we didn’t have a trump-like president at Yalta.
As for the wall, or, uh, Wall, I agree with Speaker Pelosi. John Huston’s grand old movie, “The Treasure of the Sierra Madre” was on TCM a few days ago. In that movie, the character played by Tim Holt muses about heading back across the border to meet the widow of the poor character played by Bruce Bennett in Texas. It was that easy; we had that kind of relation with Mexico. Once we created the Wall, we created a mess. This nation needs an intelligent president who can have a constructive relationship to the entire Western Hemisphere. Instead, trump and his little trumpkins are failing miserably.
And the $5.7 billion? I’ll yield to that great senator from Illinois, Everett McKinley Dirksen, who said: “A billion here and a billion there, and pretty soon you’re talking about real money”. I think the Koch Brothers could just give trump the $5.7 billion.
2019 is going to be a rough year, Nick. I’m looking forward to reading your column every week. A subscription to the Times is worth far more than that $5.7B for the Wall.
34
Great idea, Mr. Kristof! If Trump really loves his country so much, instead of hugging and kissing the flag, he should put his money where his mouth is and pony up the $5.7 billion. After all, he is a billionaire who used to keep insisting that Forbes always underestimated his net worth every year. If I’m not mistaken, he claimed it was north of $10 billion.
Now, he can kill two birds in one stone by releasing his tax returns – either prove Forbes wrong once and for all or show Americans that he really doesn’t have that kind of money to pay for the wall. Somehow, one gets the feeling that Mexico will agree to pay for the wall – if Trump puts up the $5.7 billion upfront – by throwing Trump’s USMCA logic back at him.
Trump can kill two other birds in one stone by putting up the $5.7 billion upfront – he can build his wall to secure our borders per his wishes and he can reopen the government. I’m sure Americans of all stripes will consider him a true hero and patriot, boosting his approval ratings and dramatically increase his reelection chances. Do it, Mr. President!
21
@Jack Nargundkar: Don’t forget, trump’s wall is at least $30 billion. He’s going to have to have really creative financing. It looks like Russia is out of the game, with deep thanks to Robert Mueller.
10
Even if Trump financed the wall by himself, it would be an environmental disaster--any further extensions of the existing wall should be based on sound environmental principles, not on the whimsical desires of an egotist to build a memorial to himself.
48
If he had a mandate to build the wall, and that's a big if, why didn't he get his wall funded before the midterms? The dems were completely powerless.
41
The suggestion that Mr. Trump pay the $5.7B for the wall he just has to have out of his own pocket and then be gradually reimbursed when all that money rolls in from Mexico (assuming, of course, that actually happens) is brilliant! However, I'd take it one step further: Let the well-heeled among his rabidly pro-wall, anti-immigrant base chip in. Surely folks like Sean Hannity, Ann Coulter, and Rush Limbaugh could chip in at least a few million apiece. It would enable them to put their money where their mouths are (or perhaps I should say, "where Mr. Trump's outsize mouth is") and, at the same time, save their idol the embarrassment of having to finally admit his net worth is nowhere near $5.7B. Voila! The wall is built (and, as predicted, accomplishes next to nothing), the shutdown ends, and President can claim it's all thanks to him. Another win for Team Trump! Promises made, promises kept!
32
Trump would not put up $5.7 Billion of his own money up to pay for the wall, even if he would get it back with interest because:
1. He probably doesn't have that much money in the first place and
2. He's going to need all the money he has to pay the legal fees needed to defend his various crimes
87
@Dave in Seattle
Dave, you're forgetting the most truly Trumpian part of ehy he won't. Der Furor never spends a cent of his own money on anything.
4
There is no way Trump is a billionaire and look no further than his clunky airliner he flew around in during the campaign. He probably picked that up for a song and just keeps filling it up with jet fuel as a mobile billboard of accomplishments. Hardly efficient for his line of work not stylish. We will know soon enough.
20
@Ted Siebert: Yes.
3
@Ted Siebert
I dunno. The 757 is a gorgeous airplane which can't choose who boards her.
Through our obtuseness, our malevolence or our apathy, we created this monstrous national Administration that we are now experiencing.
"You" didn't, maybe, and neither did "I," but "we" did. Until we face that unpleasant fact squarely in the face we risk our failure to confront it when the next opportunity rolls around to elect a new government.
34
@John lebaron Fancy Bear and the like are still operating! Don't assume that The Fool will not be "reelected". Putin--and Iran, and China--are still busy undermining this nation.
And don't forget, China has effective quantum security! We Do Not.
Why the USA hasn't noticed that, and why it isn't considered a Great National Emergency is astounding!
At this point, Trump is just playing with Congress and the American people. When elected officials (even Democrats) were ready to have him declare a National Emergency, he backed off. Trump is now ready to keep the nation in purgatory or nonman's land. But if he is not sure it's a National Emergency then Congress (Republicans and Democrats) should reopen the govt but with short extensions for the Department of Homeland Security, in case Trump wants to change his mind and declare an emergency. Of course, he has figured out that the future of the wall would be held up in court for years.
4
Trump may think he has leverage but it is the TSA agents who hold all the marbles. If the thousands of unpaid TSA agents refused to show up to work this shutdown would be over in an hour - wall or no wall.
176
@E Bennet Perhaps the unpaid TSA agents at DC area airports could simply refuse to screen any Republican in Congress and this administration. If the GOP can't get its free flights around the country and abroad they would cave in a minute.
35
@Susan Dean
Great idea but for the fact that the Republicans would just switch to private jets (no TSA screening).
9
Trump said it was an urgent emergency so he could declare a national emergency. He then said he might wait awhile and decide. Oxymoron to call it an urgent emergency if you are willing to wait and see how it benefits you politically.
81
I made a similar suggestion (Trump should pay for the wall and be reimbursed by Mexico) in a comment on a similar column in the Washington Post. When my kids were adolescents (approximately the same emotional age as Trump), when they insisted they really NEEDED something frivolous I told them if it was that important to them they should pay for it with their own (allowance) money. It was amazing how quickly their definition of “need” changed! Of course, in Trump’s case, he doesn’t really have $5 billion. Maybe Putin will increase his allowance.
50
What caught me in all this hullabaloo was a comment by Marco Rubio. It had to do with Trump declaring a national emergency, he was against it because future President might use it once Trump set the precedence. And the example he gave was climate change.
The more I thought about it, and if a Democrat was elected president in 2020, just think what she or he could declare a national emergency. Climate change, the national debt (raise taxes on the rich), DACA, infrastructure, etc. Any of these far outweighs a measly nonsensical wall.
Maybe the Democrats should dare Trump to call for a national emergency.
76
Trump, the Master of the Deal, has not done well so far.
Starting out badmouthing Mexicans and then proclaiming that they will pay for this wall project has not been shrewd opener.
Why didn't the Dealmaster propose to Obrador that they each pay half of the bill for certain specific border crossing improvements, some of which would be better barriers, among others, and come back glistening with success about how much money he has saved the taxpayers while achieving his goals for border control?
Something here is out of order. It tastes of desperation.
18
Trump does not have the money. Assume he is leveraged to the hilt. Without tax returns who nows. I do not believe him on anything, especially when he says he is a rich man
23
I'm sure that Trump and the Trump Organization can get the funds from their Russian banks. I mean, with a guarantee that the Treasury will immediately forward all payments from Mexico for the wall to Trump & Co this should be a no-risk deal. Right?
I propose that WE THE PEOPLE simply call him the demented lunatic he is and get him OUT of OUR white house immediately.
Minster Pence and Traitor Mitch McConnell can be put under citizen's arrest at the same time and a true public servant - Speaker Nancy Pelosi - will become President of OUR United States of America and undo much of the damage The Con Don has done.
She can dismiss his "cabinet"members, military supporters, appointees to regulatory agencies and OUR judicial system - and replace them with Socially Conscious Women and men - and rescind his supposed "executive orders".
NOW is the time. Come On Good People With Power - DO IT.
117
Please explain precisely what the moves are to achieve this laudable goal.
7
@njglea
This is wishful thinking. What is needed is careful
thought and planned, legal, action. Many people need
better information without condescension. People need to explain to their Senators that they will not be re-elected if they don't stop Trump.
8
@Robert
Demonstrations, riots, generalized property damage, and specific attacks on Trump properties.
6
There needs to be a law passed that stipulates “in the event of the failure of Congress and the President to come to an agreement to fund the federal government, no employee of Congress and the White House, including elected and appointed officials, shall be paid for the duration of the government shut down. No back pay shall be granted these employees and officials; nor will the unpaid time accrue benefits.” Make the politicians have a personal stake in solving the impasse.
141
@aem This is an interesting idea, and the law should probably be passed. Unfortunately, the effect would be unevenly distributed: it wouldn't make any difference to Trump, or many other vastly wealthy legislators, but there might be some legislators who actually need their paycheck. We can imagine that becoming a factor, especially as more interesting people seem to be getting elected recently. But, let's try it anyway.
18
If you want real pressure, withhold the pay of Congressional staffers. As you noted, many of the legislators are wealthy, so a lack of paycheck won't bother them. But, few of their staffers have such a luxury. Can you imagine coming to work and having your entire staff asking about their pay every single day?
60
Most of congress and Trump are millionaires. They are not living on ordinary Americans’ salaries. A missed paycheck wouldn’t even be noticed by them.
3
Pelosi was not wrong to call the wall "an immorality": independent of how you feel about what the wall says to asylum seekers, it is completely immoral to spend 5 billion dollars of taxpayer money on a project that is completely ineffective, that the GOP chose not to fund over the past two years, and that Mexico was supposed to pay for. The wall most certainly is immoral.
260
@Flotsam: And in addition, Ms. Pelosi has emphasized that the USA needs border security. Like many experts, however, she has concluded that a wall is not the most cost efficient or effective way to achieve that security.
24
@Flotsam
So we can soon expect Pelosi to introduce a bill to tear down all the existing walls?
@Flotsam Also the fact that we are running a $1.5 trillion deficit due to the big tax giveaway that benefits those that can afford to fund the great wall of Trump. And where is the big infrastructure bill that was supposed to rebuild America's roads and bridges?
6
What seems completely forgotten is that the president is in charge of executing the laws, not making them. It is not supposed to be his choice as to whether government agencies are open or closed, or pay their employees on time.
The US Congress is abdicating its Constitutional responsibility to check and balance a president who does not know what he is doing, who has trouble opening his mouth without contradicting himself, and is doing it all for himself, and against the Constitution, in violation of his oath of office.
349
@Sage. Mitch McConnell is abdicating the role, not Congress as a whole
63
@MEH
McConnell is only majority leader because most Republican Senators want him in that job.
Two thirds of today's US senators were there already 5 years ago when that body passed bipartisan "Border Security, Economic Opportunity, and Immigration Modernization Act of 2013" by a two-thirds margin.
30 Democrats and 6 Republicans who voted yes on that bill then are still there now. Have you noticed any of them publicly advocating this kind of compromise lately? They seem to be silent while Nancy Pelosi talks about how "a wall" is immoral and "not who we are."
This is hardly seems a credible alternative, and is certainly a far cry from the comprehensive policy reform proposals articulated in 2013.
McConnell is indeed a prime example of dereliction of duty. But the rot goes far beyond that.
35
@Sage
And where in that "Border Security, Economic Opportunity, and Immigration Modernization Act of 2013" do you find Trump's wall? Please specify. Thank you.
20
The "Wall" is trump's version of a statue of himself, a permanent reminder to future generations of his greatness, absolute proof that his father didn't really despise his own child.
Sooner or later, unchecked, he will insist on that statue, at the behest of the American people of course. The republicans,of course, will ask American tax payers to foot the bill; trump not being among them of course.
29
@Jay Stephen, It's a great idea. We could call it the Statue of Libertine.
I still say that Congress should vote to give Trump the money he wants on the condition that he not embark on a spending spree until such time as the construction is officially approved (i.e., in 2021 or later). Let him reopen the government and hold onto the promise of a wall as a campaign issue for both himself and a Republican Congress. Until that happens have those "dedicated" funds deposited in an interest-bearing account. In the meantime, let him scream all he wants about the "emergency" that isn't being attended to. Who knows: if Muller gets any closer to establishing collusion, perhaps he can convince his base of an imminent invasion from invisible Martians, necessitating that a force-field be erected in space- requiring another multi-billion dollar expenditure from tax payers (either ours or Mexico's).
11
6: There is an "emergency" at the border, but I'll wait and see what my options are. Sorry, if something is an emergency then steps must be taken immediately to remedy the situation. That's why what is happening to you is called an investigation and not an emergency.
12
@Rick Gage
Apparently, at every bend in the road Mr. Trump considers all of his options. Declaring a national emergency is merely one of the current possibilities on his list.
There is no reason to believe, based on the decisions he’s made over the past two years, that the president allows facts, precedents, tradition or truth to limit which option he ultimately chooses to take advantage of.
To understand Mr. Trump, the concept of ADVANTAGE, greater advantage or lesser advantage, must be carefully considered. In Trump’s world, advantage far outweighs fact, reason, the rule of law, or the welfare of the American people.
9
@Rick Gage - just screaming fire doesn't make it an emergency. see point 1 and point 2 in the article, there is no emergency that a wall would have anything to do with.
6
Lately, in the light of all the debates, and all the experts legal opinions I've been thinking a lot about a weakness, loopholes and a kind of frozen state of US Constitution.
So many obstacles and roadblocks if it finally comes to impeachment.
Constitution should morph and evolve base on the lessons of our history, but instead it remains full of pitfalls, ambiguity and vagueness.
Should the people raise this issue.
If the GOP could push infamous Citizen United into law, Democrats should start working on constitutional amendments to move it to 21st Century.
It will not be the last dictatorial maniac who gets elected to the presidency.
So much damage already done, but he is still there and we're still debating.
I know great for ratings, very bad for the country!
68
@faivel1
Your comment is one of the most important I have read during these two years. And, I think you read my mind and the mind of millions of Americans.
Our Constitution is the backbone of our democratic government but - as you said - it has pitfalls, ambiguity and vagueness.
There should be carefully thought out meetings with the best legal scholars of today studying the aberrations of the past two years and how our Constitution can be twisted, misused and blatantly disregarded by politicians for personal gain and adulation (you know I mean by trump, his family, his cabinet members, his advisers and many members of congress)
Our tax laws need to be reviewed and revised so the "legal loopholes" that allow corporations to send money offshore and use other nefarious methods to avoid taxes while We the People send IRS our hard earned money all year.
The process will be lengthy but our Constitution and our laws need Review and Reform - by bona fide legal experts.
36
@faivel1 The Constitution is very important, but after all it's a piece of paper. What we live through from day to day is based on a lot more than what's written in the Constitution, and unfortunately, our society is terribly unequal, rife with corruption and resentment -- although there are a lot of good things going on as well.
They say the old Soviet Union had a Constitution that was a model of democratic governance -- on paper -- but they lived in a totalitarian dystopia, because of their history of brutal despotism, poverty and war. We are doing vastly better than that, but it isn't mostly because of what's written in our Constitution, it's because of our history, and how we actually live. Something to think about.
8
@joyce
Hi Joyce,
Kind of meeting of the minds on the
comments board.
I guess we were almost neighbors, I used to live in Highland Park.
3
Great ideas here for "deals" to resolve the deadlock. But why "deal" when victimized by a shakedown? By clear abuse of power. Is our only choice to cave to a Bully? Even as in this and in many other ways, there is evidence of criminal behavior? Our nation is falling apart. Chaos escalates. People are hurting; more every day. Who but Putin is pleased by this scene? Who can help? Could it be our American oligarchs? I believe many of them had good intentions when they supported Him. Now it looks like the Sorcerer's Apprentice (DJT) has gotten out of control. Please, you movers and shakers, please stop it. Thanks for considering...
35
@FactLover, I think it's a misnomer to say American oligarchs. The oligarchs have become their own country with their own rules. Some of them may live here, but they have less in common with our citizens than they have with their brethren who happen to live in Russia. As I like to say: they are a separate country, and their capital is offshore.
2
The people who are clamoring for a wall to be built want to believe that walls have always worked and will work again, but they aren’t thinking about drones. Drones already exist that can transport a human up and over a 30-foot barrier. We could end up spending billions and billions on a wall and the very next day, human smugglers will use drones to drop people over the wall one-by-one just like the wall wasn’t there.
And don’t say we will just build a surveillance system to catch these drones; we already have such a system and it already catches people trying to cross the border. Adding a wall to the current system will just complicate the current surveillance.
Don’t think drones are possible? Google “bathtub drone” and then decide if smugglers would use a device like that to get people over any kind of wall we might build. The existence of drones will make building a wall the next great folly of the 21st century.
48
@Jeffrey Greeson: interesting but you are still a victim of misdirection. The point isn't that people could get over the wall, it's that nobody needs or wants to get over the wall. Where he's talking about putting it isn't where people cross into this country. They (and there aren't that many of them, and they aren't one of our big problems, really) come through existing check points, hidden in trucks, or arrive by plane or boat with legitimate visas, or whatever other ways they can think of. Very few drones necessary.
If his wall ever got built, where he is talking about putting it, it would be hugely inconvenient to local residents on both sides, it would be destructive to animal life, it would be stupid and ugly, but it would be pretty much irrelevant to people wanting to get into this country illegally.
1
Where did Trump get his figure of 5.6 billion?
In an article by the Brookings Institute, there are the following range of Wall figures:
Trump: $12 billion (early campaign quote)
House Speaker Ryan: $15 billion
Dept. of Homeland Security: $22 billion
Washington Post: $25 billion
Senate Dem's Report (Gov. Accountability Office: $70 billion
https://www.brookings.edu/essay/the-wall-the-real-costs-of-a-barrier-between-the-united-states-and-mexico/
I have yet to see a single budget document that breaks down cost by material, length, environmental impact assessment, and legal expenses.
How can anyone be expected to approve a project when the total cost is unknown?
Would you hire a home builder who told you, oh, your house could cost $200,000 or $500,000 or $2 million. So please give me $200,000 so I can get started?
This is insane!
583
The reason there is no one absolute price tag for a wall is that it’s design and construction costs have not gone out for professional bid. What we hear are everyone’s guesses — many are educated guesses, but they are still guesses.
28
@Heather
There have been no serious costed-out proposals. It's not just the Wall of Shame but the transportation infrastructure (roads) to get equipment to remote construction sites.
Nevertheless, cost does not matter. It's the principal: "Not one cent for tribute."
37
@Heather. Trump never has paid for anything in his
life. He doesn’t know what a budget is anymore than he understands the pain of other human beings. I also would like to see the cost breakdown. That ain't gonna happen either, because we all know which end he pulls his numbers out of.
28
I remember when President Reagan fired the air traffic controllers for going on strike months into his new presidency. They defied a presidential order to get back to work for the safety of the American people. Now, air traffic controllers are working without pay because of this president’s shortsightedness in thinking through the ramifications of his forced shutdown.
Running around Congress is what Mitch McConnell is encouraging by his refusal to stand up to the president. McConnell has made impotent the legislative branch of government which must surely please the president.
430
Who can forget what Trump thought of Executive Orders when Obama was president. Now that the shoe is on the other foot, his tune has changed considerably! And Trump's party was the majority in Congress for two years, but yet even that wasn't enough power for Donald.
83
@silver vibes...I wonder how many of those air traffic controlloers voted for Trump because "we can't have that woman" in office.
13
@silver vibes
Maybe the Air Traffic Controllers should stage a walk-out along with the TSA and other Government workers who do not get paid. Trump, McConnell, etc would be stuck. What about the Water Department shutting off the water to the White House and Congress for lack of payment as they do to old poor people.
How about the Secret Service stopping work for maybe a week or so. How would the Potus etc feel without the protection?
We the little People that work for the US Government should stop working in protest of no paychecks. Bet this stalemate would end a lot sooner as without many of the services the Potus and the Congress are used to are gone.
Write or call your congressman. Support the government workers. Maybe we should start a go fund me for the least of these.
19
For decades the Republicans have thrown sand in the gears of the federal government whenever they could. The only agency they support is Defense, which provides very lucrative contracts. So shutting down the government—or making it inept by their intentional footdragging—plays into their primary agenda: making the federal government unpopular so its enforcement will weaken and wither away.
So long as they are enriched financially, they will happily turn a blind eye to the degradation of the public health and welfare, not just for Americans, but for the entire planet.
If they can ignore climate change, they can ignore a little thing like the mission of the government of the United States to help protect this nation. What better deal than to aid and abet the Russian asset in the White House in bringing down our defenses.
126
Being snide l doesn't get 800,000 plus folks back on the job(s) that need getting done. Congress should come to an agreement and get it passed and that will put Trump in the onerous situation to veto it or not. Congress should do it's job and act.
15
@jayzzme2 I totally agree. Mitch McConnell could let the Senate vote on a bill, and signal no backlash for Republican senators who voted with Dems on the original bill from December. If it passed 53-47, put it on T's desk. If he vetoes, he takes full responsibility for the shutdown. Both houses are in opposition. He is in the crosshairs.
But McConnell won't expose T like that. He'll throw his own vulnerable colleagues under the bus first.
72
@Suzenn Yes, Mitch McConnell could move this process forward by allowing a vote on the House bill. You have to wonder why he feels more loyalty to Trump than to his colleagues and the American people. I have been contacting his office daily urging him to hold a vote on the House bill. Perhaps if a huge number of citizens did likewise, he would act.
10
@jazzme2
I think this is why Mitch McConnell won’t allow the Senate to take a vote. He knows the bills will pass; and he is afraid DJT will either sign them or ignore them for 10 days, at which point they will become law (see Aricle 1, Section 7 of the US Constitution). Either way, DJT gets himself out of the corner he is trapped in, and he is free to complain and blame - Mitch McConnell. McConnell faces re-election next year. He is less than popular in Kentucky right now, and he needs the DJT minions to help him win. He does not want to be the focus of DJT’s anger and spite. So that is what our nation has fallen to: one forgetful, vindictive, ignorant, old megalomaniac having a temper tantrum over a red herring issue; and another old, self-centered, shrewd, cowardly man trying to insure his own political survival. Both of them callously inflicting hardship and suffering on millions of citizens in order to get their way. The GOP is beyond disgusting for enabling these two sorry excuses for “leaders”.
Let the Democrats offer the amount Trump wants - to be allocated by EXPERTS. Some of the funds would be for wall, some for drones, some for sensors, some for agents, etc. Trump could claim his wall, and the money would be used intelligently for the whole border. And the rest of the government could get back to work.
4
@Barbara Colman
I think we're at a watershed moment and will lose a valuable opportunity by floating any proposal that offers Mr. Trump a plausible way to wallpaper the fiasco he has created. Those of us who feel that Mr. Trump is no longer to be trusted with the presidency need to avail ourselves of this chance to further erode his support--and the longer the shutdown, the greater the erosion.
91
@Barbara Colman: they have offered to negotiate about security. That would be kind of like what you are suggesting: let's allocate money for things that are really necessary, that would really work. But then he insists that it's a wall or nothing. Although sometimes he uses the word security, often enough he insists on the wall itself. Frustrating.
9
@RBT Unfortunately the longer the shutdown, the more difficult for the government to become effective again. Then many of our personnel will be governing from street corners--"Anything Helps, God Bless".
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Pelosi needs to apologize for her choice of words making it sound like she doesn’t care about border security. She needs to emphasize that she absolutely understands that every nation needs secure borders.
She needs to emphasize the bipartisan plan that would have been in effect if Trump hadn’t panicked over Limbaugh and Coulter’s rants.
We also need to see first one, then a total of 4 Senate Republicans say they will become Independents if that is what is required to get McConnell’s blockade for voting on this issue to end, and him booted out of his leadership position.
Those four will end Republican leadership, and force in Democratic leadership of Senate.
They must emphasize the importance of the government ALWAYS being opened, and ALWAYS paying its workers!
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@Jean/ Holland Ohio
I'm curious about your sources. Sincere apologies for well-defined mistakes are always welcome. On the other hand, I'm a little surprised that you suggest you know better what Ms. Pelosi is doing and should be doing than Ms. Pelosi herself does. Your aforementioned four Republican senators joining forces with Democratic senators would be highly significant. Lets hope they do.
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@Jean/ Holland Ohio, perhaps I'm missing something, but I thought that's exactly what Speaker Pelosi did say. I have no doubt that she , and the Democrats are strongly for border security, Just not a 2000 mile wall that will have little or no effect.
I don't understand why there is a periodic struggle about paying federal workers. I agree it should be an ongoing statutory requirement. I could see the usefulness if it were about congresspeople getting raises.
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@Jean/ Holland Ohio
"Pelosi needs to apologize for her choice of words making it sound like she doesn’t care about border security."
I've been following this pretty closely and have yet to read anything attributed to Pelosi that supports your statement.
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No one has done more to help the American public understand why The Wall That Mexico Will Pay For, a campaign fantasy of an uninformed real estate scion, is not a solution to challenges that cross our borders.
Until Trump first announced he would own the shutdown for The Wall, actual information about its effectiveness was scattered and shallow. Since then, we have seen 24 hour news coverage, charts, maps and statistics illuminating drug imports, immigration trends and enforcement efforts.
So thank you, Mr. Trump! We now know that one more of your foolish notions, uninformed by any actual knowledge or experience, is a fraud perpetrated on your base. For those of you at home who are keeping score, that makes 1) tax cuts and giant pay raises for the middle class, 2) repeal and replace the ACA, 3) a $1 trillion infrastructure plan and soon to come 4) trade wars are easy to win (unless they cause a recession and destroy our agriculture sector first).
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@Look Ahead
And, I’m almost tired of winning, but soon a secret Mid East Peace Plan from his son-in-law.
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@Look Ahead And by the way, does tRUMP have a financial stake in a wall? How is it that his presidency hasn't been hamstrung by his failure to come clean with his finances?
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McConnell, the real culprit . . . . is operating in defiance of the oath he took. By allowing no votes to open the government, he is DIRECTLY COLLUDING with Trump.
Let the votes occur, if Trump vetoes, challenge by overriding the veto. That is how it is supposed to work.
As it is now, McConnell is COLLUDING with Trump and should be removed.
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@eaglone Yes. Yes. Yes. Everyone should be referring to this as the McConnell/Trump shutdown.
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@eaglone
How do we the people remove McConnell?
There must be a way but I've not seen anyone say how.
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@eaglone
YES! This needs to be the headline. The Republicans keep saying they can't pass a bill without Donny's signature; we need headlines about how a veto can be overridden.
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I'm sure Russia will pay for the wall. All Agent Orange has to do is ask his masters in Moscow.
Government by "crisis" is an age-old technique favored by authoritarian despots, and that's what we're seeing here -- a crisis over a crazy campaign promise that was supposed to be only a metaphor. The most persuasive evidence that the "border crisis" is little more than a publicity stunt is that there is no actual governing or policy behind it. Trump is still campaigning; he doesn't yet realize that he and his Russian managers were successful. But weak and timid counterintelligence operatives can't be expected to act like real heads of state. They merely do what they're told.
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If only we still had a president who cared about responsibility and sought solutions.
Instead, we have an individual who cares about himself and seeks grandstanding.
Trump is far from the brilliant deal maker he had campaigned on being; that would entail willingness to compromise.
On Tuesday, Trump said that the standoff could be resolved with a 45 minute meeting. That's wrong. It could be resolved with a president who cared more about finding a way out than he cared about saving face for his fans.
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@NM: "On Tuesday, Trump said that the standoff could be resolved with a 45 minute meeting. That's wrong. It could be resolved with a president who cared more about finding a way out than he cared about saving face for his fans."
It could have been resolved if both parties had been serious about passing a budget instead of the lazy process of endless continuing resolutions. At least the arguments would have happened much earlier. Leadership on both ends of Pennsylvania Avenue is non-existent.
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@NM -- dear friend, this sly fox of a president, thanks to McConnell's dereliction of duty, has just about achieved his objective. He controls the White House, the Supreme Court, which is in his pocket, and the Senate. He has the trifecta of American government under his thumb, which nobody envisioned on November 8, 2016.
Only Nancy Pelosi stands between a democracy and an autocracy.
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Sorry Nick, but your suggestion that Mr. Trump pay for the wall assumes that he is a billionaire.
What is really Mr. Trump's net worth?
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More importantly, Nick, there is no need for a wall. An article in Politico today says that the current Koch brothers operative in OUR border patrol took down a 2012 article on the agency web-site that says a wall will not stop illegal immigration or drug smuggling.
It won't . The Con Don simply wants a $5.2 Billion payoff for his supporters - at OUR expense.
NO.
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@njglea Not sure about the "Koch Brothers Operative" unless you are referring to the president of the Border Patrol union. From my reading it was he who decided to remove that article. A union president working for the Koch Brothers seems a stretch but I couldn't say for certain such a relationship cannot exist. He stated that it was no longer the philosophy of the Border Patrol that a wall would not work. Of course I believe Americans are smart enough to to see that this decision was politically motivated and I hope to see the Border Patrol members speak out against their presidents decision. I have not yet read of how the membership feels about this or their opinion on the use of a wall.
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@Nick
I agree with your question Nick...is Trump really a billionaire?
Remember when he said he was worth TEN billion during the campaign? We knew he exaggerated but now we know he is a compulsive lier or as Roger Cohen points out, a BS'er. Where is the criminal line crossed when that becomes bank fraud and tax evasion? We know he over-leveraged every deal he ever made which is why he lost the Plaza Hotel and drove the casino business (when everyone else was making money) into bankruptcy... after taking enormous fees of course.
I would bet his tax returns would show he desperately needs new cash flow to keep it all afloat (and the Russian wolves at bey) which is why he is cashing in on his presidency as he told us he would.
So yeah, let him pay for the useless wall until Mexico does and check the reading on the BS meter.
PS it turns out Wilbur Ross, who helped him out of the casino bankruptcy (and got him an 18 year, $900 million tax deduction for other people's losses) is also a fake "billionaire" according to Forbes. Do they have a secret hand shake?
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This is a superb article about a tragic threat to our beloved democracy.
As Kristof observes, Trump is wealthy.
How much has he contributed to charities that could assist these impoverished fell humans?
How much is he willing to donate to the country he has pledged to lead and support?
How much will he donate to the charities that support and care for the immigrants?
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@Marion Keenan I don't know if anyone can tell us whether tRUMP is or isn't wealthy. He has not divested from his businesses, nor shown us his tax returns.
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@Marion Keenan: From what I have read, he has given $10,000 only over years. He said he would give the profits from "his" book to charities. No proof that ever happened.
Something and somebody twisted that man for life. He is beyond help.
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Are you reading my Facebook? I post this on January 9.
" I have come up with a solution to the government shutdown. The Democratic House will not approve the $5.7 Billion Trump wants for the wall. Trump says that the wall is vital as we are in imminent danger! Enough so that he is willing to declare a state of emergency to get the wall funded. The problem is that this would immediately meet massive resistance and would get tied in the courts for years. There is a way for Trump to get the funding, pay for it himself. He claims he is worth far more than $5.7Billion. As he says that it's vital to the nation he would gladly pay the money, he'd still have billions left. The loss would only be temporary as he also promised that eventually Mexico would pay for the wall. To suggest he wouldn't go along with this is tantamount to calling him either unpatriotic, a liar, or both. Who is going to relay the plan to him?"
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@feanole
Easier Solution:
Trump announces to the American people that HE will pay for the wall himself but that construction cannot begin until he can sell off a few of his current properties for the cash!
Of course, Trump is lying and actually has no such plans, but his base doesn't care...they won this battle and Trump is still their hero!
They might even nominate him for a Nobel
"Deal" Prize.
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If Trump pays for it himself he will claim it as a tax deduction.....
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@Mark That's OK. Maybe someday we will see his tax returns
Nicholas,
It is time that some people in this country find a legal and immediate way to remove Mr Trump from his current office.
The ongoing rhetoric that surfaces whenever tv or newspaper columnists make statements about this is very limited. That the Vice President seems to support the president step-by-step show his "allegiance" to confusion
and ongoing Trump changes.
Is the United States going to find a way to be respected in the world because we demonstrate the capacity to "work together", or will we let the confusion and negativity continue until we collapse?
Sincerely,
Jeffrey Robbins
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@jeff
Is it possible to remove the most combative and contentious people from the discussion? Challenge the sincere member of the Congress and Senate to agree that this shutdown is not a battle, we are not, yet, in a civil war, and have a civil discussion? Perhaps the "media" could refrain from feeding these divisions or giving exposure to all of Trump's tweets and other divisive utterances. Do not feed the beast. Our commentators could challenge the more moderate members to step forward instead of being silent.
Perhaps the center aisle should be eliminated physically from the House and Senate with the outer seats of the side aisles reserved for the extremists. Mix up the moderates so they have to talk to one another. Get over this them and us mentality. We are not Republicans and Democrats, we are Americans with more common goals than otherwise. Search for this commonality not differences.
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@jeff: Yes: “It is time that some people in this country find a legal and immediate way to remove Mr Trump from his current office.”
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Perhaps Trump's affluent supporters, benefiting from a trillion in tax cuts, could fund the wall and await the payback from Mexico. So much else in our country has become privatized. Or we could half privatize it by having a national lottery of the Trump Base to pay for it, a telephone on Fox News.
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@Historian (I’m one of those, too) — I have a similar suggestion: the bill providing funding for the wall should include a surtax on incomes over $10 million — as much as is required to pay for the wall — if over a period of years, interest should be included. After all, the House just accepted “paygo” for this session, right?
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@Linda Maloney A great idea. Yesterday I sent this same idea to both of my Republican Senators as a way that they could get off their duff and end the government shutdown. If Trump wants the wall make it pay as you go. We cannot add it to our $1T deficit. Since this deficit was largely the result of the recent tax cut, a surtax on incomes over $10 million seems like a fair and just compromise. I urge everyone to write their Senator. Perhaps with enough public outcry McConnell will see the error in his way and allow a vote on the Senate floor for a CR and the Senate will begin to do the job of governing.
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@Linda Maloney -
Fantastic! Let AOC draft the bill, and make sure that all real estate income is taxed at 92% (the marginal rate under our Democratic Socialist President Dwight David Eisenhower).
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