Hello, American people.
I am writing this comment from Northern Syria. We are currently in the Turkish threat. Dictator Erdogan is counting days to kill us. What we want in the United States is a no-fly zone. Please let us know it. Tomorrow may be too late. Long live the brotherhood of American and Kurdish people!
3
I'm no middle east expert; far from it. So maybe I'm wrong but what is see is: Saddam wouldn't protect the Kurds. Turkey wants to destroy the Kurds. Notwithstanding all the criticism falling on Trump's head the U.S. does not have any strategic reason to foster an independent "Kurdistan" except to have a handy set of good fighters that we can seduce into joining our endless proxy wars against one or another sect in the region. Notwithstanding John Bolton, the U.S. public is gradually waking up to the fact that these proxy wars need to end. We've used the Kurds. Soon we won't need them any more, and we have neither the political or military heft to create and enforce a "homeland" for the Kurds. Nor does our only real "friend" in the region, the Saudi butchers. The Kurds should and will make the best deal they can with Syria and, by extension, Russia. It's sad but it's just a by-product of a set of stupid imperialist decisions made by Cheney et al (going back to John Foster Dulles, actually) and the American public has at long last had a snootful of it. We'll retreat to the Saudi butchers, the only regional butchers who seem to really want us (and our missiles) around. We're like Britain in 1945: time to reassess.
@highway
I see a strong Kurdistan as a long time player in the region that can help keep us out in the long run. We need stable allies over there or that area of the world will eventually require a far more costly intervention on our part for self-defense alone.
2
It's time to end our own assumption that the YPG is a terrorist entity just because Erdogan says so. What we fail to note, remarkably, is that as recently as 2015 the Turkish Kurds won significant electoral victories and many took their places as legitimate representatives of Kurds in Turkey.
The PKK leader Ocalan who actually fought Turks and was imprisoned long ago, endorsed the peace process from his cell and renounced further fighting. The PKK soldiers departed Turkey and took up residence in Kurdish Iraq, and
in short order, our esteemed ally Erdogan rolled out the tanks in his own streets and cut short any dreams of a better life for Kurds in that country. Now he wants to invade another country to crush its Kurdish citizens.
The Kurds, marginalized and oppressed in each of the four countries where most of them live, represent, in some writer's phrase, "islands of decency" in that troubled region.
It's long past time to stop using them for our convenience and then abandoning them to be slaughtered. It's a small piece of ground they want to administer. Let's help them keep it.
6
The Kurds in Syria have during most of the conflict stayed neutral. Their conflicts with the government have been short and were settled soon.
In Afrin their was an offer for the Kurds to allow Syrian troops while maintaining self rule. That would have satisfied Turkey but the Kurds refused. As the ensuing fight showed that they were no match against Turkish supported "rebels" with Turkish air support they are unlikely to make that error again.
It should be rather easy for the US to negotiate an agreement on this basis with the Syrian government.
1
What interests me is that journalists keep failing to note that the day before Trump announced the Syria withdrawal, the US announced the sale of $15bn worth of Patriot missiles to Turkey. You would have to be brainless to not know that the two are linked - the sale went through probably with Trump promising ahead to withdraw from Syria. Turkey will now use those US missiles to perpetuate genocide against the Kurds. Bolton’s visit was part of the ongoing deception from this administration, but it grieves me that journalists are not making the obvious connections.
9
@Charlene The Patriot is a surface-to-air missile. Do the Kurds in Syria have an air force?
1
@Charlene True enough, but don't forget that Turkey has been a part of NATO since 52. It's in our interest for them to have robust defenses, despite Trump's intentions.
@Tony
The catch is that Turkey is falling into the sphere of Russia, which makes no sense for NATO today.
1
Erdogan has transformed Turkey into another Islamist state, another antagonist in the internecine hostilities among Middle East nations and factions, and a rogue member of NATO. It is really quite amusing, and frightening at the same time, to see Trump and his advisers trying to thread the needle among the competing interests while trying to maintain a credible Middle East policy. It is probably the most revealing of the administration's competence in foreign affairs.
4
Let’s hope our allies Kurds finally learned this old saying: “America doesn’t have friends, only interests.”
We sure repaid their loyalty well. /sarc
4
A timely demonstration of why international newspapers should not be giving this man a public platform.
5
President Trump remains Erdogan's poodle, but the idea that the US should pull out and leave our loyal YPG Kurds to a holocaust at the hands of the Turks' panzer army would stain the honor of our country for all time. If we were to allow this to happen, our future chances of acquiring new allies would be unlikely to say the least.
Let there be no mistake about it. Talk to our military there on the ground. They are effusive about the honesty, bravery, & quality of these Kurds who have been our troops on the ground in the successful fight against ISIS.
WE MUST NOT BETRAY THEM.
16
Neither Turkey nor the USA should be in Syria. Because they have not bee invited by the legitimate government. The USA, for once, should do the right thing: call in the UN to protect the civilians in the North East - and Al Tanf -- and allow the troops of the legitimate government to slowly take over these regions. That's what international law requests.
Will Turkey and the USA do it? I doubt it. But, if they don't, the war will go on. Sooner or later the legitimate government, led by Assad or whomever else, will want to reclaim Syrian territory.
2
@bergamo
Damascus has no independent say in their own affairs at this time.
The one saving grace from Trump is that he has not started a war.
Because he and his constantly changing team aren’t capable of handling foreign policy Trump has been inclined to withdraw from international relationships.
In order to avoid a war or international crisis it is probably desirable for Trump to minimize foreign relationships and allow a future more competent administration to pick up later with issues like NATO.
Trumps inability to form a competent administration is evidence alone on why he should be removed from office. Americans, including this expatriate, should not have to tolerate a dangerously incompetent president and his clueless staff!
3
Left to his own devices, Edrogan will imprison and kill Kurds. We know this because this is what he has done over the past two years. More secular and wealthy Turkish citizens are transferring their assets out of Turkey and then leaving. Essentially a brain drain in the face of a movement from a once secular Turkey to another Islamic state of Turkey. A strong organized Kurdistan of the future will help us stay out of the middle east, which is what I would want to see. I do not want to see the Kurds go the way of the Yahzidis. IN the end, we will have to deal with a terrible situation in the middle east if we don't handle this correctly, and we should ensure the safety and future strength of the Kurds, which we have done with almost no loss of life and minimal use of our troops.
8
Your statement right at the beginning: "President Trump’s muddled plan to withdraw the United States from Syria fell into further disarray...", it is not correct.
Bolton's plan fell into disarray!
2
@Cristiano Bolton's plan was to strengthen U.S. forces in Syria to deal with Iranian forces present in the country. Mattis objectives were focused on ISIS. Trump was apparently hoping for a boost to his popularity to bring American troops home from a complex war. Trump's rapid withdrawal plan fell into disarray when confronted with the realities on the ground brought to his attention by Bolton and other advisors. The defeat of ISIS was made possible to a large degree by the willingness of the Kurds to fight the militants. Trump may not have been aware of this when he spoke with Erdogan.
4
Pentagon officials are constantly lying to the American people as well as to the world. Turkey on the Euphrates Shield operation killed more than 3,000 militants ISIS. How many ISIS militants killed the Pentagon? It is also an army that the Pentagon, which you refer to as the Kurds, is using the PKK militants. There are 20 million Kurds in the Middle East and the PYD does not represent the Kurds. In fact, he kills or exiles ethnic groups, including Kurds who do not fit themselves.
1
“Different voices have started emerging from different segments of the administration,” Mr. Erdogan said.
Erdogan should have long realized that chaos is the essence of Trump's governance.
1
Based on comments here I would like to say that international relations and politics includes sort of regimes. By that, I mean if the states allowed the others to have their own countries, the system would be more complicated. For instance, Palestine/Israel, Crotia/Istria, Czech Republic/Moravia etc. Turkey naturally doesn't allow the terrorist group called YPG to gain dominance around Turkey's border. As I know Kurds have already been living in Turkey right now, and the propagandas made by media try to show like all Kurds on the side of YPG. We should take this situation into consideration.
4
the question is not if erdogan is a dictator, question is why bolton, who supports interests of israel more than usa, is doing this? Trump is the President of the usa, not bolton and these neocons who do not accept trump’s syria policy is hijacking his policy, why? There is no isis left in syria, even if there is few hndred left, they are no real threat. Israil wants a divided syria with a client state such as kurds. Hence this policy, on top of that, cia, pentagon had a policy of 7 wars in 5 years semi-hidden policy under Bush( see general wesley clark, nato commander) to divide ME. This is that policy, trump did a great service to usa soldiers and tryng to pull th us soldiers but cia, israel and neocons do not like this. That is the issue here.
Another note, pkg is an extension of pkk, see the flags they show in photos woth pkk symbols, pkk is a terrorist org. Declared by usa, eu etc. unless they lied and pretended that, then usa, eu is lying terrorist supporters. Pkk has killed civilians, bomb civilian buses, killed women and children, google and aee photos. So american people shpuld read about this and don’ t get fooled into otherwise by small group of ivy leauge foreign policy hawks, neocons who want costant war with poor, lower middle class people’s sons, daugthers while their own kids go to colleges, party, enjoy europe during summers... Trump for once did a great service to americans unlike bush, obama and other war mongers.
4
So much respect for the US...incredible. MAGA. Erdogan is treating the US like a third rate Country...that’s where Trump has taken the US.
6
We will cover the Kurds because they have done such a magnificent job helping us vs ISIS. We stay in Syria and back the Israelis, keep a watchful eye on the Iranians, Turks, and Russians.
6
@DENOTE MORDANT PYD is the representative of the Kurds? Who chose pyd?
2
Now representing the Trump administration: the gang who couldn’t shoot straight. Both Trump and Bolton believe that simply by saying something, other countries will fall in line. How many times are we going to have to go through these embarrassments before the MAGA crowd realizes that their emperor has no clothes?
Trump’s appointees have zero knowledge, experience, and understanding of what should be the basics of running our government - the Constitution, federal law, governance, diplomacy, statecraft, military strategy and tactics, negotiation, compromise, empathy, and compassion.
I probably missed a few more areas of incompetence, but you get the idea.
5
The US had no business in Syria to begin with funnelling billions of dollars into another 'opaque' Pentagon incursion and supporting a terrorist organisation (PKK) in shift to transform it to a quasi army that clearly threatens the US/Nato member country, Turkey.
The Obama administration recklessly put the US into Syrian quagmire that has been costing hundreds of thousands innocent lives. Trump, despite almost every aspect of his administration is filled with fraud-faux misinformation, may very well be correct to put an end to this 'never ending' Pentagon missions, whilst the US still lacks universal health care for her citizens at home. It is a shame the US, in the second decade of 21st century, is still missing well established rail transportation whilst China has been putting bullet trains across its vast land.
I also wonder why the US has not been putting hundreds of evidence of graft and crime of Erdogan and his ilk and put an end to his autocratic reign turning the Middle East into further chaos!?..
Erdogan turned Turkey into a dark autocratic country, where even two very famous actors aged 75 to 80 years old have been questioned by prosecutors for expressing their opinions in a clear threat to its already scared secular population before upcoming local elections amidst a severe economic crisis.
5
The only friends the Kurds have are progressive muslims and Israel. US will throw them under the bus because the have no country. Now more than ever Kurds need their own state.
9
Of all the injustices in the Middle East , the one that usually gets most headlines is the Israeli-Palestinian issue .
The one that gets least headlines , but is in fact the biggest injustice of them all , is the Kurdish issue .
40 Million people , in one contiguous geographical area , cruelly divided by colonial powers and allowed to become minorities in Turkey , Syria , Iraq and Iran , this is one proud and special people that MUST be allowed to become an independent country .
Erdogan can continue to rage , curse , deny or threaten , but free Kurdistan will eventually rise . And the sooner the better .
7
That last sentence about a scheduling problem with Erdogan is a bald faced lie, what poppycock. Furthermore, my Boston Terrier knows that these strongmen dictator types want to deal directly with Trump because they know he’s the biggest mark on the international stage.
2
This seems like a clear sign that US standing and clout in the world view is going down the drain. Trump treats autocrats like cronrys and they lose all respect for the US.
1
Erdogan is about as trustworthy as Trump.
3
The thug Erdogan is happy to advocate for Palestinian freedom but when it come to the Kurds he seems only interested in murder and repression.
4
More Trump administration self-
described ”winning” while actually creating far worse enormously expensive humanitarian crisis situations.
2
Okay, let's look at this from a militaristic point of view. The Kurds have been fighting for the past six years. They have built up a battle hardened army of 70,000 supplied with the latest weapons by (hey) us. The Turks have not been in conflict since the Cyprus crisis over 40 years ago. Duh, their in-experienced troops, even if they out number the Kurds, will be routed. As a military historian, I can't wait to see this happen, classic.
3
@Jimmy you call yourself a military historian? The Turkish military has been conducting low intensity conflict operations since 1980'a long before Us military started their run with it after 9/11. Turkish military is far more experienced in conducting such operations.
1
@Jimmy
Without a no-fly-zone, the Kurds would be toast. They don't have warplanes; Turkey does. Control of the air would overcome the Kurd's advantage in the trenches.
1
The press in the United States has recently decided to demonize President Erdogan as a brutal dictator. He, along with Mr Netanyahu and the King of Jordan are actually the only sane, balanced and competent leaders in the entire Middle East. Turkey has been joined to the U. S. in the NATO alliance for many decades, Our strongest forces, including the nuclear weapons, are located at Incirlik Air Force Base in Turkey because that is the most strategic and safe place for them.
4
The US's Middle East policy is total confusion. The present policy direction is a product of " Adults in Room Theory". Trump is not interested in eliminating IS forces completely from Syria. Even before accomplishing that Trump announced that IS is defeated, hence US withdrawal. That ignited the conflicts of interests between Ankara and Washington over the Kurds issue in Northern Syria where American forces are stationed.
Strategically, Kurds , majority group governs local council. YPG along with allied forces fought against Assad regime. Turkey has been opposing US arming Kurds,YPG an extension of PKK of Ankara. YPG issue has blown up disproportionately and has done irreparable damage between them.
John Bolton should have announced US stay after meeting Erdagon. That too he spoke on Turkish arch enemy's soil, Isreal. Though Tel Aviv is not a party to conflict, but it has a vital security interests along southern borders.
While Erdagon welcomed Trump's decision but refused to meet Bolton a humiliation for US. It seems US is in the process of receiving brickbats not only from friends, foes also from 70 years old NATO partners alike.
The future of US is at stake. The Russian Federation, PRC strategic partnership and in alliance with Iran and other anti- US forces are very active in eroding Washington influence. The US liberal order may be replaced with Russian strategic order.
10
Thanks to NYT for providing this foreign policy article and comment section. Re. the headline. Erdogan Snubs Bolton, I think that trivializes the situation. When a dictator as ruthless as Erdogan warns that setting conditions for a US troop withdrawal from Syria would be a "grave mistake," I presume he means that literally. By defending the armed forces under the Kurdish umbrella that have gathered on Turkey's southern border, we are in effect recognizing a Kurdistan, and doing so without discussion, due process, or consideration of potential ramifications and unintended consequences. The Kurds need to retreat from the Syria-Turkey border immediately.
5
@ErikW65 the question is not if erdogan is a dictator, question is why bolton, who supports interests of israel more than usa, is doing this? Trump is the President of the usa, not bolton and these neocons who do not accept trump’s syria policy is hijacking his policy, why? There is no isis left in syria, even if there is few hndred left, they are no real threat. Israil wants a divided syria with a client state such as kurds. Hence this policy, on top of that, cia, pentagon had a policy of 7 wars in 5 years semi-hidden policy under Bush( see general wesley clark, nato commander) to divide ME. This is that policy, trump did a great service to usa soldiers and tryng to pull th us soldiers but cia, israel and neocons do not like this. That is the issue here.
3
@ErikW65. The border area where the Kurds live and currently peacefully run things, is their ancestral homeland. The population on both sides of the Turkish border is mainly Kurdish. Though Erdogan paints them as terrorists, they are people trying to exist on their land with their own culture, language etc. Erfogan has bombed many Kurdish cities within turkey into ruins — imagine what he will do without the US in the way.
4
@ErikW65
These are Kurdish ethnic areas, as was Afrin Canton. Where do you expect them to go? Your backyard in Vermont? You sound like Stikes Picot who made the first mess with their pencils on a paper as they messed with the lives of others
Please look at the map before making such statements
2
"Even a broken clock...."
"Broken Clock John Bolton" is right (and I hope Trump is backing him) to demand that our Kurdish allies be guaranteed safety by Turkey before we pull out.
Of COURSE Erdogan is furious: He's been plotting and planning some way to commit genocide on the Kurds since he took power. You'd think the Armenian genocide would have been a sufficient lesson against it, but it's clear he wants to be able to justify it. And get away with it.
Whether deliberately or inadvertently, Bolton, the classic bull in a china shop, has blown Erdogan's plans sky-high, revealed Erdogan's op-ed here to be a total fabrication and ripped the cover off of it. Trump isn't nearly as smart or informed as Bolton or Pompeo, and if Erdogan talks to him, Trump is likely to undermine them and throw the Kurds into the fire.
Colin Powell's "Pottery Barn Rule: You break it, you bought it" will be treated by Trump like everything: He breaks it and either lets someone else pay to fix it, or IF he fixes it, he claims a GREAT victory!
Would you give credit to a doctor who sets your broken leg if he's the one who broke it?
12
Trump and Bolton have botched again. And this one is serious. Turkey is NATO’s most heavily armed member state. And Russia threatens. Erdogan is a thug. He imprisons reporters. He needs the Kurds and an old cleric to justify his bullying. Erdogan has no fear of Trump. Trump is the emperor with no clothes. Trump has been naked for decades. Bolton is the fraud following the naked emperor around in a feeble attempt to justify his title.
Toinight’s Oval Office bloviating will end Trump’s presidency.
4
Abandoning allies is nothing new for the US. Case in point, the South Vietnamese. True, the conflict was a war crime carried out by LBJ, but we told the South Vietnamese we would support those who fought with us. That alliance lasted until the NVA rolled into Saigon. More recently, the Kurds have been our allies against ISIS which contrary to Trump's claims has not yet been decisively defeated. There can be little doubt that Erdogan, especially given how he violates the rights of Turks, will not hesitate to slaughter the Kurds once the US withdraws. We should kick Turkey out of NATO.
7
@Mike abandoning allies is not the right statement, question should be why usa was in vietnam or syria in the first place? So you do not have to abandon “allies” neocons and small group of slefish ivy league foreign policy fools are running usa policy here, and for once Trump did the right thing for american people, soldiers and pulling them syria since there is no isis left in syria, even if few hundred left they are no threat. Ndons wants constant war and this does not fit their plans. Bolton is hijacking trump’ policy. He is more for israel than usa. Remember russian collusion? Maybe 5ere is israel collision here, bigger than russian one. Cheers.
2
This just shows how easily Erdogan manipulated Trump--now he's simply peeved that Bolton is messing with his win. I'm sure he's not too worried: all Erdogan has to do is question Trump's authority and we'll be right back to knee-jerk insanity.
8
Trump is the one doing the manipulating. And he would be successful if not undermined by the resentful, self-appointed experts like Bolton. Let the president do his job.
1
The adults in the ME are Putin, Netanyahu and Iran. Loose cannons are Erdogan and MbS. Assad has his back to the wall and is doing what has to be done to survive, including those IS would cheerfully massacre or make into sex slaves.
The US? - Trump's effectively subcontracted US ME policy to Bibi.
For those sardonically inclined, it's a Punch and Judy show with several nasty actors.
5
"a senior American official humiliated by a foreign head of state who evidently calculated that he could extract a better deal by talking directly to Mr. Trump."
And did Mr. Erdogan get that deal? Nice op-ed yesterday of Mr. Erdogan, but wasted ink, proverbially speaking.
In the final analysis Mr. Bolton insisted that the Syrian Kurds not be thrown under the Turkish bus. Mr. Erdogan can huff and puff and the NYT can finds new ways to twist even positive developments into attacks on Mr. Trump and Mr. Bolton, but the Kurds, for the moment, are protected.
5
@Joshua Schwartz
Will Israel start coming out of shadow and support Kurdish separatism in the day light across Iran, Iraq and Syria effectively?
Would Israel be happy if any country supports local separatism in Israel?
4
@Dan Depends on what you mean by separatism. If you mean autonomy, yes certainly. Israel has and does support autonomy locally (Menahem Begin and Moshe Arens for instance), for Kurds and for Palestinians.
However, why do you think that my comment has to apply from to where I type ? Is every comment that you make a reflection on your NYC status?
1
It's one thing for Trump to line his pockets by abusing the Emoluments Clause and loot the gov by using his hotels for his vacations.
But in this instance, the Gang That Can't shoot straight is messing with global politics which could easily lead to nuclear war.
How long will 22 republican senators resist impeachment? How many things must Trump screw up before he is removed from office?
6
Who knew that foreign policy was so complicated and, at a minimum, demands the conscientious reading of briefing materials and multi-party consultations.
21
If is a certainty that Trump will abandon the Kurds and with it, any and all confidence of our partners around the world (ex Russia/Saudi Arabia/Turkey) in the trustworthiness of the U.S. as a steadfast ally. This move by Trump will serve the global economic interests of the Trump family organization at the expense of the American people costing us bank and blood.
10
Way to go Mr. President.
3
@Ms D
Yes Ms D,
Way to go into prison for Mr President, a hardcore lifelong criminal.
5
@yves rochette, Quebec,Canada:
Moreover:
The USA has no such fear [as Turkey's state does] and does not seem to have any knowledge that other nation-states [NSs] in the neighborhood would. In turn those presently running the USA don't seem to understand that the self-interests [SIs] of some very old NSs on the ground bordering Syria have direct, daily SIs in stopping Syria's Kurds from staying organized in militias across the border from Turkey.
What, is Bolton ordering Erdogan not to invade Manbij because... ??? What exactly??? Simply put: "one person's terrorist is another person's freedom fighter."
Similarly, it is no surprise that Syrian Kurdish militias have already asked for Bashar al-Assad's state forces to return to northern Syria, right after Trump abruptly announced the US was pulling out. Insofar as politics is war by other means, it always makes more sense to trade with the enemy you know, than the enemy you don't.
Israel, too, profits, when al-Assad returns to formal power within the borders he previously ruled. On the other hand, it does not when Trump announces on Twitter that he's pulling US forces out of northern Syria. Israel always prefers enemies it knows to ones it does not. That problem, of having many enemies in its neighborhood, however, is only one among many from which it suffers.
The equation of Israel [the Jewish state] with Judaism [a religion] is another problem. A political entity is and can never be a religion.
1
I worked on a research project in Central Turkey 20 years ago. Spent a few days I. Other places. I was shocked when I went to see the Sultan's Summer Palace that I first had to go through a long Hall filled with propaganda about the Kurds.
The Turks hate the Kurds even more than they do the Greeks.
15
@Jean I think you must have been to a different country. The Sultans had many palaces in Istanbul. But there was never a summer palace. You are mistaking Istanbul with St. Petersburg (Petrograd) in Russia.
1
Because Obama empowered him
I think it will work if Bolton tells Erdogan he can kill "some" Kurds, Trump says not a single Kurd will be killed, and if another US dude tells Erdogan he can kill as many Kurds he wants just don't brag about it.
This is called US foreign policy. It works.
3
clowns trump, erdogan, and bolton, who are completely ignorant of world affairs, are running the circus. For how long?
3
@Cholito Sutil, Erdogan is certainly a scheming, conniving autocrat, but to write him off as similarly ignorant, in light of the way that the bumbling Trump and Bolton now look, would be a mistake.
5
Autocrats operate like mob bosses; like thugs. We now how an autocratic administration that transacts with other strongman governments in thuggish and stupid ways. There is no grace. Only plodding thuggery.
2
A few comments here suggest that Bolton was right in insisting on Turkish protection of the Kurds. Nice idea on paper. Problem is, Turkey was/is *never* going to do any such thing. Setting such a condition was not helpful or even cogent. He knows that. He is only setting the "agreement" up to fail so the US can proceed with their troop withdrawal. Bolton may be a lot of things (none positive) but he's not a fool.
7
Maybe we should pause and go over the facts.
The Syrian Kurds have been led by the YPG. The YPG is a branch of the PKK, which is a militant, Marxist/anarchist party which wants the Kurds, who live both in Northern Syria and Southern Turkey, to secede from their respective countries. I'm not passing judgment on their cause, but it is the type of group whose destruction we usually support. In fact, we often ally with murderous, right-wing dictators in order to help them crush such groups.
This time, for cynical, geopolitical reasons, we have allied with this group (who are part of a movement both we and our EU allies have designated as terrorists). We have encouraged their separatist aspirations, and this is what has put the Kurdish civilians in danger. Most strong countries will not tolerate a marxist/anarchist-led minority to secede from their country and Turkey, which is, presumably, a NATO ally of ours, is no exception.
If we want to save the Kurds, the best thing we can do is withdraw and encourage them to negotiate a peace with Turkey and Syria.
8
@P. Greenberg
I agree, and I would add the US goal was to create in place of a secular Syria a pious intolerant Sunni state beholden to Saudi Arabia and thus under US control. Jihadists want their rewards in paradise and they would get it. The US wanted to overthrow Assad and would get it. The Kurds don't buy the paradise benefits and would not help overthrow Assad so they were put to work on ISIS.
3
@P. Greenberg
And these are the people that you call "Terrorists" however the are neither terrorists or separatists . This is what substance looks like. The following in a quote famous in 2016 by one Kurd, not unlike a Nelson Mandela, or our founding fathers, who managed to speak for all Syrians, Kurd or not:
“We prefer the use of North Syria Federation and call for the removal of Rojava from the name because Rojava denotes a federation of Kurdish identity. North Syria is home to all of its constituents, and the freedom of Kurds there is contingent upon the degree of liberty enjoyed by other inhabitants of the region,”
“We also criticized them for announcing it prior to the completion of a proper groundwork for its announcement, which gave the impression that it was being imposed as a fait accompli, and that is harmful,”
These are the most powerful comments to know what is someone's head and their heart is worth repeating:
"North Syria is home to all of its constituents, and the freedom of Kurds there is contingent upon the degree of liberty enjoyed by other inhabitants of the region,”
Who's values are these? Don't they sound like our own, or to Paraphrase Dryden in "Laurence of Arabia" : "… or perhaps we forgot were we put them?
@PK Jharkhand Secretary of State John Kerry made a very serious effort to achieve a political settlement in Syria working through the UN such that the various parties could govern Syria in its present borders. Assad sent representatives as did the opposition. But meaningful negotiations beyond achieving local ceasefires were unsuccessful. Until there is a meaningful resolution the EU, Japan and other prospective donors / investors will hold back. Working through the UN is the path to a Syria that allows Sunnis, Alawites, Shiites, Christians and other faiths to live together.
ISIS was on the outskirts of Damascus in September 2015. By 2016 the country would have been largely under ISIS control without foreign intervention. Such an ISIS state would have been a global threat as well as a threat to Saudi Arabia, Turkey, Israel, Iran, Jordan and other countries. It is not a matter of U.S. control of Syria but rather the stability of the region itself. U.S. rules of engagement have been to not engage Syrian government forces, but to concentrate on eliminating ISIS.
Like the Palestinians, the Kurds need a negotiated settlement to their problems. Like the Palestinians, the powers that be work hard to prevent that ever happening. We bought the Kurds as mercenaries to aid our own goals in addition to the ISIS fight. They knew this at the outset, but enthusiastically hoped for a better outcome than being dumped at the end of the mission. Wars are nasty things, the atrocities and injustices affect many for generations. We need out of Afghanistan and the greater Middle East, it would sort itself out if we could just stop interfering, it is not our region despite the professed ‘interests’ and ‘allies.’
6
@Susan
"Kurds dumped at the end of the mission."
As they were by the US after the defeat of Sadam Hussein in 1990.
4
@Mike Edwards there is precursor to the 1990 dumping, 1970's dumping of Mustafa Barzani, the father of Massoud Barzani. Surprising that the Kurds have not learned that they cannot trust the US.
2
Maybe we should pause and go over the facts.
The Syrian Kurds have been led YPG. The YPG is a essentially branch of the PKK, which is a militant, Marxist/anarchist party which wants the Kurds, who live in both northeastern Syria and the adjacent southeastern Turkey, to secede from their respective countries. I'm not passing judgment on their cause, but it is the type of group whose destruction we usually support. In fact, we often ally with murderous, right-wing dictators in order to help them crush such groups.
This time, for cynical, geopolitical reasons, we have allied with this group (who are part of a movement both we and our EU allies have designated as terrorists). We have encouraged their separatist aspirations, and this is what has put the Kurdish civilians in danger. Most strong countries will not tolerate a marxist/anarchist-led minority to secede from their country and Turkey, which is, presumably, a NATO ally of ours, is no exception.
If we want to save the Kurds, the best thing we can do is withdraw and encourage them to negotiate a peace with Turkey and Syria.
2
Turkey is our mortal enemy and must be expelled from NATO.
5
Pompeo and Bolton need to lay down the law publicly with the Turkish government regarding the Kurds.
2
We're going thru a very risky era with an incompetent U.S. administration in international affairs.
9
I’d say Bolton is the winner here. Being snubbed by Erdogan is a badge of honor.
6
Boltons' comments illustrate clearly his total arrogance and disregard for American allies. In this, he is the perfect voice for Trump, the most arrogant and selfish US President ever. Trump's foreign policy is driven only by the force of campaign contributions (support for Israel), and his business prospects. He has no sense at all of what's best for the USA and the rest of the world.
9
You mean, we won't see Trump's name on Hagia Sophia in Constantinople; oops Istambul. Everybody knows you "can't go back to Constantinople" (1953, They Might Be Giants; which was also a good movie with G.C. Scott and his wife; but this stream of consciousness digression has gone on too long). The song ("Istambul") was written on the quincentenary of the fall of Constantinople.
3
I'll end U.S. strategic defense in Syria if you stop talking about Kashogghi:
Figuring out the strategic military details after you make to withdrawal statement, how amateurish is that?
Giving Turkey an order from Israel? How amateurish is that?
Helping Turkey, Russia, ISIS and Saudi Arabia at
U.S.and Kurdish expense?
How treasonous is that?
Under US withdrawal:
1. Turkey gets to kill the Kurds the best fighting allies we've ever had. And it won't cover all of Syria.
2. Russia gets to reinstall Assad in the vacuum.
3. Isis gets to leave its caves and take over Eastern Syria and Western Iraq in the vacuum.
4. BUT MOST OF ALL: To get Erdogan to consign the Khoshoggi barbarity to the dust heap, Trump had to promise him to get the U.S. out of Syria-- against our national interests ( = treason).
7
@Peter Bear
Dear Peter, Well said, I have saying the Khoshoggi killing is directly related to the phone call Trump had with Erdogan....and the sudden call to leave Syria and serve up the Kurds to the Turks....anything to keep quiet about our lovely friends the Saudis....Thanks
2
@Peter Bear
I would add at all of Europe expenses as well.
With an ongoing ban valid throughout Europe
put on the head on Kurds peace making branch agreed
in 2018 between Eu andTurkey.
Usa defekt, we fall in darkness.
Erdogan will end up owning Syria, the Kurds will (as always) end up with the short end of the stick, Natinyahu & his Ultra Orthodox supporters will remain in power, & Trump’s feet will be washed by the Evangelicals once again.
8
Erdogan's reaction to Bolton's requirement to protect the Kurds shows just deceptive his letter to the NYT is. Erdogan is chomping at the bit to slaughter (more) Kurds. As for his second biggest army in NATO, I read where the Pentagon believes more US troops would be needed to be embedded with the Turkish army than we have now with the Kurds. With so called allies like Turkey and Saudi Arabia the US is on the wrong side. As for Iran, they are there to try and protect the Shiites from the Saudi-Wahhabist jihadis who have a fatwa to kill every Shiite man, woman and child.
6
Thanks Tim,. and does every reader realize that the Saudi defense spending is greater than Russia's?
3
I’d not be surprised to see the Kurds simply bargained away. If not for Israel we would most likely see a Kurdish genocide. We may yet.
3
More headlines:
“John Gets No Love from Cold Turkey”
“Ouch, That’s Cold, Turkey!”
“Turkey Leaves John Cold”
“John Can’t Turn Tricks in Cold Turkey”
The possibilities are endless, especially if you add the Kurds to the mix.
1
Bolton milked and Kurdeled by a Turkey
1
Bolton made a terrible UN ambassador. For the most part, other ambassadors managed to tolerate him at best while he demonstrated his astonishing ignorance of history and global statesmanship. This only shows to the rest of the world how much of a total ignoramus he is. To not even begin to understand the history of the Turks and the Kurds, and even propose such an amazingly stupid policy is only more evidence of the absolute failure of this administration. no wonder so many marginally competent people have left. Unfortunately only the totally incompetent seem to be left.
11
So now it is clear why Erdogan conned our Con-Artist -in Chief to withdraw from Syria: to attack our allies, the Kurds.
Those pundits who see Trump’s retreat as a welcome rethinking of the over-committed use of our military should see Trump’s action for what is really was: a hasty move made without consideration of the consequences. It was a professional curtesy from a would-be autocrat to a real one.
Yes our military commitments must be subject to regular review by the Administration subject to Congressional oversight. Bolton’s clean-up trip proves that Trump’s decision was based upon impulse and not policy.
4
The huge problem here is that since the Iraq War Defense Dept. has become the main actor and director of foreign policy in the Middle East. Senator Kerry as Secretary of State was totally absorbed with Iran (or disappointed with with Obama dilly-dally Syria policy) and paid scant attention to what was going on between Iraq, Syria and Turkey. Defense Dept. staff officers and their advisers decided that they will ally themselves with YPG, the terrorist PKK's arm in Syria, all the while YPG brazenly displayed its loyalty and admiration to PKK. Defense Dept. trained and armed them and the arms provided to YPG started appearing in Turkey and naturally Turks of all political shades were irked and annoyed to say the least. These issues were brought to the attention of Washington by Ankara but were dully dismissed. The current situation is a result of ham handed policies of Obama Administration cannot be entirely blamed on the current administration. Pro- and anti- Erdogan Turks believe that Washington is paving the way for Kurdish insurrection in Iran, Iraq, Turkey and Syria. State Dept. has to start playing a major role in the region and Defense Dept. should be relegated to an advisory status.
5
Erdogan should be told that when a country makes an alliance with another country, it also tacitly makes an agreement with that country's allies.
America should not allow Turkey to attack the Kurds, but I suppose you can't demand the the Turks protect the Kurds apart from not attacking them.
3
About 100 years ago Sykes, Picot, Balfour and Lawrence re-drew the map of the Middle East. While creating some nations to make the new map look like the maps from their childhood bibles, the eliminated Kurdistan. They never wanted another Saladin who could drive the Christians out of Jerusalem. To be sure, the Kurds are just sufficiently different from the main line Sunni and Shi'a to make them outcasts wherever the borders placed them and for the largest part of the century, they ignored those borders preferring to maintain a Kurdish identity.
The problem is that the Turks would prefer that the Kurds not exist. The other problem is that Trump, in his effort to try and make the USA profitable, doesn't care and likes Erdogan because he is strong and more than willing to kill his enemies real or imagined. Lest we forget that attempts at genocide did not start in Germany.
4
Bolton's mission is not about the Kurds, at least not mainly. This is about fixing the latest self-inflicted "Mess by Trump". As Trump says occasionally: How knew it was that complicated? Well, the answer for his latest blunder, the announced sudden troop withdrawal from Syria is - almost everybody. By promising his favorite autocrat of the moment -Erdogan- that he'll pull the US out of Syria in a hurry, he gave Erdogan the free hand to move against the YPG that Erdogan wanted so badly. However, the flip side of that decision is, of course, that then Assad and his allies, Russia and especially Iran, will also be able to do as they please, meaning Iranian forces will be close to the Syrian border with Israel. After Netanyahu, Trump's favorite not-yet autocrat, complained bitterly about that, Trump now tries to put the genie he let out back in the bottle and sent Bolton to make it so. Except, the genie doesn't want to go back (see Erdogan's Op-ed). Trump and Bolton now use their suddenly found concern over the fate of the Syrian Kurds as a reason to back-pedal on the troop withdrawal. I feel sorry for the Kurds, who are once again used as bargaining chips by others who really don't care about them.
9
While the Kurds have been very effective as our proxy ground force in the Middle East, to treat our alliance with them, as being superior to that of a NATO member nation, is politically dysfunctional. And given the intensity of the conflict between the two armed forces of Turkey and PKK/YPG, the US has no choice but to defer to the one with which it has Treaty obligations. Someone needs to tell the Kurds to back off Turkey's border, and set up their Kurdistan somewhere else. Maybe they can police Syria's southern border from Iranian incursion in exchange for territory there.
2
The Kurds proved most effective fighting back ISIS. Without them Sunni or Shia extremists will likely take over and have more constant fughting.
It seems the Kurds have ideals more aligned with the West than other groups in the region.
These folks deserve better.
3
Lots of civilian non-combatants in Syria support control by IS, as fellow Sunnis. So really, Syria will never be proven to be completely free of every IS member. The threat of IS using Syria as a base with which to attack the US can be more effectively managed without attempting to protect a de facto Kurdistan from the Turkish Army, which lets the US use its air base.
2
Actually, John Bolton said that Turkey must not attack the Kurds, not wipe them out. Not "protect the Kurds", that would be a tall order for Erdogen to stomach. Preventing genocide seems a worthy goal, and the Kurds are our allies.
1
Under which US Treaty was our alliance with the Kurds agreed to? Or did some military personnel negotiate an agreement in the field which obligates the US to protect a newly formed Kurdistan on the Syria-Turkey border?
3
The Kurds have been our loyal allies time and time again. Not only should we stand by them, we should help them gain some independence.
3
@GBP then why did consecutive US government dump them into the cold in the 70's, 90's ? Very convincing message given to anyone thinking about allying themselves with the USA.
The Turkeys will not protect the Kurds in any event. So, we will, and should do so. We have an obligation. The Kurds are the best reason available for the US to stay present in Syria which does not diminish our mission to stymie the Iranians and Russians as well as backstop the Israelis.
1
I have spent quite some time in Turkey.
Have traveled to many parts - and despite my language barriers - have found Turks to be good folks to hang around with.
But they need to get past this obsession - a fatal one at that - with Kurds if they want the world to take them seriously.
And even more importantly, as reliable allies.
India has a similar problem with Pakistan - a fatal obsession but this time to itself - which prohibits other countries from truly befriending India and calling it a reliable ally.
If after so many years of history - triumph of a secular Turkey after disintegration of Ottoman empire that left this country so vulnerable.
And to have reached almost a member of EU and for sure, a NATO member - Turks need to bury the hatchet and go on to build with Kurds.
Kurds are not going anywhere and neither is America's support for them.
I hate to say this - but Turks are beginning to look like another PLO.
PLO sees Israel in every issue and especially the American support - ditto here with Turks and Kurds.
1
Trump couldn't get past the first paragraph of this article, describing no less than 3 opposing groups by acronym and allegiance. Unsurprising that he made a 'unilateral' and blanket announcement on this and left the execution to staff.
Pretty sure we saw Bibi standing directly behind Trump with one hand obscured, Trump's mouth moving; Jared and Vlad off to the side smirking at each other when this withdrawal was announced.
5
Yeah, " ... Turkey, with the second largest standing army in the NATO alliance, was the only country to replace United States in northeastern Syria, to ensure stability for the Syrian people" just like Hezbollah (Iran) and Syria are the right armies to secure Lebanon.
It doesn't turn off the heat, just changes who is sitting on top of the pressure cooker. Neither Bolton nor Erdogan has any clue how to solve this.
2
Practically everything that happens reminds us that, when we are dealing with Trump's current senior staff, we are dealing with the "C" team, at best.
How about the Sunday, when Pence - meeting with Democratic staffers to find a way out of the shutdown/wall impasse -- introduced Jared Kushner by noting that he would know best what is on Trump's mind. Kushner reportedly said something to the effect of: Not me, that would be my wife, Ivanka!
Who knows what Trump is thinking - on anything. We really are dealing with the keystone cops.
45
At best the ‘adults’ left standing are
Domestic: Mulvaney and Boy Wonder Miller
Foreign Policy: Bolton and Pompeo. Scary Stash and Dash
Legal/Justice: ???
Finance: Louise Mnuchin
John Roberts is paying attention to all this somehow I dearly hope.
US is getting played by every single country right now. Like the candy store is WIDE open folks. Step right up and take whatever you want.
2
@doug
Agreed, Too bad this Jared comment isn’t getting more press as it truly illuminates the abysmal failure of Team Trump to manage with any semblance of competence, formulation & communication of reality based policy.
It’s a Tin Pan Alley clown show & the Republican leadership in the Senate & House that continue to provide cover for both the executive office & the losers running the State department & DHS, need to wake the heck up, do their job & act as a check against this failure of a president. The Republicans are sleeping through the beginning of a nine alarm fire that’s being primed by their very own Nero.
5
The situation in Syria is mainly related to natural gas supply to Europe. There are 2 projects :
-Qatar to Greece (maybe bypassing on Turkey-more support by the USA)
-Iran to Turkey (more support by Putin/Erdogan).
Trump, during the phone calls with Putin and later Erdogan gey played to leave Syria, as he said to Erdogan "We are out-you can get it all"...There was a big reaction from Qatar and its other partners...here are the back -pedaling of Trump!!
9
@yves rochette:
No, it's not only about natural gas supplies.
It's about Turkey's self-interests [SIs] in limiting Kurdish SIs in self-determination in the region, the Kurds being the world's largest ethnic group without their own state. [The Palestinians are 2nd.]
Kurds are divided into 4 nation-states [NSs], Iran, Iraq, Syria and Turkey. Turkey is known for killing 1000s of Kurdish Turks in the '90s, destroying Kurdish villages, etc. This from a NATO ally.
For the USA, presently, it's about its SIs in bullying others to believe that Trump must have his way [sound familiar?], through the guise of John Bolton, Mr. neo-Con himself. That Bolton's message is a direct contradiction of Trump's recent message is - as someone here has already said - the ineptitude of the Keystone Cops running the world's only superpower in the early 21st century.
The Turkish state - viz., Erdogan - has a deep fear that what they label terrorists in northern Syria [organized Syrian Kurdish militias working w/, training w/, supplied by US military and its Special Forces, as happened for decades in northern Iraq] are allied w/ Turkey's own organized Kurds in southeastern Turkey.
...
1
I didn't read Mr Erdogan's editorial in yesterday's Times. I couldn't because he is the one person whose predictable words are stomach-turning - worse than the predictable tastelessness of our very own tyrant. It is a disservice to their readers that the US media has to pass along words best ignored in the public interest.
The Turkish leader's genocidal assaults on his own citizens are born out of his madness. Though the Kurdish people have lived in the region for centuries, their interests were not included by the great powers who created national borders in the middle east after the defeat and collapse of the Ottoman empire a hundred years ago.
The Turkish people are great human beings, but the great nation that Attaturk founded has been completely subverted by Erdogan in his reign of terror.
22
Can there be a referendum to address self-determination in the areas in Turkey, Iran and Syria inhabited by Kurdish majority to ask if they want their own country?! Why not raise the issue at international level and follow through?!
4
@Nicholas
We don't have a huge amount of influence in Iran, Turkey and Syria just now. Why don't we try your suggestion in Israel/Palestine first?
2
Bolton gets a lesson in foreign relations 101, just because the U.S. is the most powerful nation in the world it's leaders and representatives are limited in what they can expect from others to agree to do by just saying what they want. It does not work that way.
13
@Casual Observer
Actually we definitely are not powerful. We lose all wars... Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya and of course Korea who were a weakened nation in 1940s needing China help to prevail and now has become a threatening nuclear power. So in truth we are the epitome of impotence not the most powerful nation in the world. We are the subject of ridicule.
3
@Mark Billings
We are no longer credible
1
And so yet another blundering misstep from this most incompetent of all administrations. Trump is not only a personal disaster due to his own huge failings, but the sycophants and ideologues he has put in place are completely out of control.
25
Republicans need a role model to put Donald Trump in his place! Here's your example Mitch - Erdogan. Get off the sidelines and reopen the government!
4
It remains amateur hour in the White House
14
Bolton's statement that Erdogan is responsible for helping the Kurds when the US withdraws from Syria is a very smart comment. He knows very well that all Kurds west of the Eufrat river in Syria are the enemy of Turkey. This guaranteed Trump's 180 degree switch from pulling out of Syria to sticking around. Erdogan is no fool either and confidentially will thank Bolton for a job well done.
3
Seems to me like Bolton will be next to fall.
10
@DSS I wish!
3
Trump and Erdogan far apart? It would be a coincidence bordering upon a miracle if two dictators accustomed to listen to nobody would listen to each other.
7
If the United States can support statehood for Israel in Palestine why can it not support statehood for Kurdistan in Syria and Iraq. It is no less contentious an issue and we can lose the dictator Erdogan in favor of a friendlier Ally who has proven it can fight. Fight for our common interests which we no longer share with turkey, and more importantly provide a check against the growing Russian, Syrian, Iranian, Turkish hegemonies in that region.
14
Sounds good, let's take it up at the UN. But let's not use US troops as a peace-keeping force in an unauthorized nation building policy created on the fly.
4
@Robin
How about finding a way to support a State of Palestine in Palestine?
3
"We are hoping that Turkey would avoid any military action within our borders,” said Nasser Haj Mansour, a Kurdish politician.
This confirms that a Kurdistan has already been established on Turkey's southern border. Putting American forces between two warring parties, each of whom are our allies, is at best an unwinnable and eternal peace-keeping occupation. I'm sure IS guerrillas could find a way to take advantage, with the US pinched and distracted in northeast Syria like that.
All this just so the US war hawks can achieve their dream of a shooting battle with Iran in southern Syria? If you're in the center or left politically, and this is the first time you've found yourself agreeing with John Bolton, that ought to be a red flag that something's wrong.
12
@ErikW65
Do you really think that this quagmire was not planned all along in the certain corridors of Israel/Pentagon??
NYTs, The title is misleading because Bolton means to protect the Y.P.G and not the Kurds. Y.P.G is a terrorist organization as its counterpart in Turkey has been involved in attacks for decades.
Turkey never attacks the peace loving Kurds but a terrorist organization. Bolton is trying to implement the Israeli agenda which is intended to destabilize the region for years to come in contrast to the American agenda laid down by his President and his Boss, which is simply to let the NATO partner to take care of it in accordance with the rules of engagement of any such terrorist organizations.
7
The situation in Syria is becoming weirder everyday, and facts are overlooked.
(i) The Kurds are only 9% of the Syrian population, but they control over 35% of the land and 50% of the resources.
(ii) Half the Syrian population (mostly Arabs) has been displaced, many from the areas controlled by the YPG Kurds.
(iii) Syria, Iraq, Iran, Russia, Turkey, Qatar, and S. Arabia are all after ISIS. And ISIS has lost its control over any territory over a year or so, and no major fighting has been reported almost a year.
(iv) The YPG Kurds are getting money/arms from the US. But also works with Russians closely.
(v) We are under the impression that we are helping the YPG Kurds with their fight with ISIS. The YPG is under the impression that they are doing us a favor, since we are paying.
(vi) No one in the region wants ISIS, but we are spending tons of money for the effort, in which we are risking NATO.
(vii) The YPG Kurds see A. Ocalan as their leader, who is the founder of the PKK, which is designated as a terrorist organization by the US and EU.
All these do no make sense, but apparently it is business as usual in the Middle East.
17
Sorry, Recep. Neocons are back in the driver's seat. I'm not sure they ever left, although they DID let Trump think he was driving the bus for a while. I don't support the neocon agenda, but I DO support protecting the Kurds.
11
Meh. We can't trust Erdogan any way.
8
@and we can't trust Trump either.
18
There are MANY complicated aspects of the Syrian civil war. The most critical issue between the US and Turkey is whether or not the Kurdish militia (YPG) is a terrorist organization.
If the YPG are not a terrorist organization then Turkey is in the wrong and we need to push back hard. On the other hand if YPG are terrorists, then US is in the wrong and we need to stand down. Let's be clear here folks, if YPG are terrorist, that would make USA a state sponsor of terrorism; using one terror organization to destroy another terror organization is wrong, full stop.
So, I ask NY Times to dig into this and inform us, who are the YPG and is Turkey correct is designating them as terrorist?
13
@Voice
I think a bigger question is what US national interests are at stake in Syria worth risking a war with Russia about? And second, how successful have US interventions in the middle east been in the past?
3
@Voice: No need to dig, it's already on the record that the Northern Syrian Kurdish PYD and it's armed militia the YPG are part of the Kurdish PKK organization, designated as a terrorist organization by both the U.S. and the EU.
It is a fact previously confirmed by none other than former U.S. Secretary of Defense Ashton Carter who in his official testimony before the Senate Armed Services Committee on April 28, 2016, when asked by Sen. Lindsey Graham whether the Kurdish PYD and YPG in Syria were aligned with or have substantial ties to the PKK, replied with a clear-cut "Yes": https://www.c-span.org/video/?c4591976/def-sec-carter-us-backed-syrian-kurdish-group-shares-ties-terror-group-pkk
The PKK-PYD/YPG link has also been previously mentioned in the June 6, 2017 New York Times OP-ED article by Kyle W. Orton entitled "The Error of Arming the Syrian Kurds": https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/06/opinion/syria-kurds-isis-raqqa.html?_r=0
4
@Voice The difference between a terrorist organization and a liberation movement is simple. If you hate 'em, the first, if you like 'em, the latter. When the US was sponsoring the Mujahedeen (they call 'em the Taliban nowadays) they were a heroic liberation struggle. Now they are terrorists. When Osama Bin Laden was the construction contractor for the CIA base at Tora Bora, he was a heroic fighter against evil Godless commies. When he took over said base and named his organization after it (al Q'aida means "the base" in Arabic) we didn't like him anymore, especially after he started doing the kind of things to us that we used to urge people like him to do to the Russkies in Afghanistan.
2
I'm no fan of Bolton, but he looks like a shining star next to his 'boss' - This is exactly what we get when a self indulgent blissfully unknowledgeable person becomes president - None of what he says and does, domestically or internationally, represents a step in any sort of process which others can participate in. Rather, everything is based on an emotional need for attention, often unrelated to the actual issue, indulging in this idea that he is 'brilliant' and knows all of this without reading, conferring, paying attention. Recently one of his speeches was 'fact checked' by The Times within the body of the article. This should be the standard for all reporting. The pattern is clear; he says something, his handlers rush to redefine, adjust, talk back, sweeten, soften, strengthen ... you name it ... Whatever one's politics, this massive waste of time, money, and credibility is wearing thin. Trump will not be impeached, but his effect and influence will be limited so he becomes, in essence, a true 'figurehead'. Let him writhe and tweet in the darkness; that is his appropriate role.
2
Another win for Trump. Pink slip for Bolton. He'll be shown the door.
2
bolton should be in jail after he helped israel mislead US into a war in iraq... in fact erdawn was the only US ally to warn US of what assad will do if left to sweat while saddam is removed. bolton should be in jail or at least banned from US politics
20
@joe. He was most definitely *not* the only ally issuing prescient warnings. Most European countries were very frank about the risks and the US dissed them all. Remember "freedom fries?"
4
“The Russians as well are happy about the U.S. withdrawal plan,” Mr. Kalin said. Moscow wants the Syrian government to take control of northeastern Syria while Turkey was still holding out for it to be handed to local councils, he said."
It sure seems as if Trump's stance on Syria is being dictated by Vladimir Putin. Maybe Putin gave Trump his wishlist when they had their secret meeting in Helsinki.
3
If Russia is willing to prop up Assad against IS, and maintain Syria's territorial integrity, which means supporting the Kurds, in return for Tartus, we should be glad to let them have at it.
How can any country deal confidently with the United States? The current administration has no foreign policy. The current knee jerk (trump jerk) inconsistent approach leaves world leaders puzzled and vexed.
6
It's fun learning alongside our President how the Federal Government and national security apparatus works.
7
I am sure Bolton knows that Turkey will never agree to not intervene in the Syrian civil war to protect its interests and by giving a statement against Turkish interests is a way to stop the pullout from Syria. I am not sure if Mr. Trump is aware of this play.
3
Another world leader who knows he can make Trump lay down, roll over, bark and play dead.
6
@Tom IF that were true, the play dead part, we would have no problems.
2
Perhaps it should be play “brain dead”. That seems to have worked.
1
This morass of propagandistic liars hawking their distorted world views seems ever-expanding.
Mars looks better an' better every day....
5
"it would be risky to launch a midwinter operation"
The totally untested Turkey army trying to defeat a battle-tested Kurdish force in the middle of winter will go about as well as Hitler invading Moscow in the middle of the winter.
2
@al
You are wrong. Kurds are living and working all over Turkey. In fact there is claim that majority of Kurds are in Western Turkey. And very few Kurds support PKK. About 50 percent of Kurdish population in South Eastern Turkey are Erdogan supporters. So Erdogan and other Turks do not hate Kurds but hate PKK and YPG.
4
@alTurkish Land Forces 330,000 + 500,000 Reservists plus an AirForce 600+ manned aircraft including F15s.
YPG Forces - 20,000 - 30,000 estimated no obvious airforce.
I think I might just fancy Turkey's chances whatever the time of year.
Umiliviniq
4
@al
hopefully
You expected otherwise from Tayyip Erdogan??? Erdogan has made no attempt at hiding his hatred for the Kurds. So why would Bolton even think Erdogan would agree with his position?
3
This diplomatic debacle should be made part of the mandatory curriculum at the U.S. Department of State, Foreign Service Institute on how NOT to conduct negotiations, public or otherwise. This is what happens when one leaves implementation of U.S. foreign policy to the likes of John Bolton, a bull in a china shop if there ever was one.
Recipe for failure: First you go to Israel, a nation with which Turkey is at loggerheads over its treatment of the Palestinians. Then you publicly announce while on stage with Netanyahu that a condition of U.S. withdrawal will be Turkey's agreeing to protect all of Syria's Kurds without differentiating between the Kurdish terrorists who conduct cross-border attacks and smuggle arms into Turkey which Turkey has in its cross-hairs, and the Kurdish civilian population in Northern Syria in general. Also totally ignoring the fact that according to the CIA World Factbook, an estimated 19% of Turkey's population is composed of Kurds; the vast majority of whom are living peaceably within that country's borders and want nothing to do with an armed insurrection being fomented for the past 30 years by a handful of PKK/PYD/YPG terrorists.
Bolton's ham-fisted approach brings to mind past "American Imperialist" approaches in dictating to smaller nations what they can or cannot do. As Turkey's presidential communications director Fahrettin Altun is reported to have Tweeted, "Turkey's national security is non-negotiable".
No self-respecting nation's is.
29
@EMIP
Wholeheartedly agree to every word in the post.
Now, can we please teach these basic foreign policy fundamentals to everyone in hapless Trump administration!
2
Let's hope that Trump has more luck withdrawing troops from the US southwest border and negotiating with Schumer and Pelosi over the Wall. He should have a better understanding of the Democratic policy and historical context than he does of the situation in Syria and Turkey. The only glitch is that when he has to coordinate troop withdrawals from TX, NM, AR and CA so that one state does not take advantage of another when their strength is down. We will see whether he is up to this task tonight.
2
Mr. Erdogan, perhaps Don will lend you his wall plans/blue prints and you can build one between Turkey and the Kurds. Maybe Mexico will pay for it!
4
@Economy Biscuits there is actually an 800km long wall between Turkey and Syria which was built following ISIS attacks within Turkey. It was built in about 2.5 years and sure cost less than $ 5 billion.
1
Surely Trump can lie America out of another mess.
3
@Just Me: No, it is "lie his way into another mess." Trump never gets out of messes, only into them, one after another.
1
Bolton should also tell Bibi to be "protect Gaza's Palestinians".
7
NO ONE in this WHite House knows what they are doing.
It's a TeeVee White House. Trump, the con artist, has surrounded himself with TeeVee personalities.
Erdogan and Xi are NOT TeeVee personalities, and they are not going to kowtow to Trump just because he tweets out some gibberish between the Rush WIndbag show and Hannity.
SO tonight we'll be treated to the fuzzy math ( Mexico will pay for the wall....by using American Tax Dollars). Pastor Pence will sit there with his pursed lips and his eyes shining with misty tears as he gazes at Trump.
It's ridiculous.
IF this stupid wall was such a bright idea, and there really is a "Crisis" of national security at the border, the WHY did the Republican-help house and Senate agree to pass the first budget resolution?!?!?!
Because Trump had not taken advice yet from the Television Set via Hannity and Coulter.
Wonder if Trump will be clutching his own chest tightly, rocking slightly, and speaking in nonsense gibberish liberally peppered with Trumpisms..."Believe me.....SAD....The Democrats don't want border security.....blah blah blah..
Has Trump called Sears yet and demanded they stay in business?????
11
Hey, Donald, thanks for the fine mess.
When you said the money and jobs our industries were getting and creating because we were selling billions of dollars of armaments to Saudi Arabia, Turkey was listening - particularly when you weighed those sales against the life of a journalist who was a legal permanent resident of the United States.
Did you think Turkey was deaf?!
Now, Turkey is thinking the US government is thinking the lives of the Kurds are worth the same as a US legal permanent resident journalist. So Turkey is wondering why we're not walking away.
You tweeted this, Donald! You did this!
YOU CREATED THIS CRISIS!
In fact, this is about how crises are created: by blathering without a rudder in a sea of ignorance and preemptively broadcasting that blather on Twitter without any prior consultations other than from people named Jared, Ivanka and Dweedle.
Please stop kidding yourself into thinking you have the skills and staff it takes to run a large country.
You are in a real box, and you have put your country into a bigger box. A big box in the middle of the Middle East that has bloomed, through your abject catering to right wing pundits whose only responsibility is to a series of sponsors and a pre-disposed audience.
(Let's not even talk about the insanity you have created by inventing a security crisis at our southern border. Believe me, there are a lot more Kurds to contend with in Iraq than there are poor people seeking Asylum on their way from the Americas.)
5
I thought the world never respected us more. We are both feared and loved. On the other hand a third rate bictator whose country would be a Russian colony without NATO feels free to blow off our National Security Advisor. Something inconsistent with this picture.
Is anyone surprised? Trump said/did something stupid. Promised Erdogan. Kurds, US military, diplomats, Israel and others freaked out. Bolton tries to walk back Trump stupidity and Erdogan calls Bolton and Trump out on it.
The mindless stupidity of Trump’s rollout of this - regardless of whether you agree with the policy objective or not - is proof that the President is not up to the task. He’s a simpleton when it comes to running the country. He should stick to concrete planks which he knows better than anyone.
4
We know respect for the USA has reached a new low when a third rate dictator snubs our national security advisor. Way to go Republicans.
6
Trump foreign policy - “ Ready, shoot, aim.”
4
Oh, shaddap, Recep.
We already get what you’re up to, and no, you can’t have that Imam no matter what President Stable Genius says..
You can have Prez SG, though...
2
The US wants others to protect its agents in the region; this is the highest level of absurdity.
The US is ruled by hypocrites. They need to defeat ISIS but they are happy for a criminal that killed millions to stay in power.
In a world ruled by these kinds, no wonder fascist and racist ideologies thrive.
5
Bolton getting snubbed by Erdogan. Wow didn’t see that coming.
The truth of the matter is with US leadership in complete disarray, our international standing is in the gutter and everyone we send to the world stage a laughing stock. Of course the biggest clown of them all sits his fat bum in the WH eating KFC and tweeting incoherent gibberish geared to his incoherent mob base. Other world leaders be they democratically elected or autocratic, have long given up trying decipher the mad tweets of our “Dear Leader” (emphasis on the quotation marks and on leader). So yes a powerful man like Erdogan sees a power vacuum in the Middle East and is happily and publicly rebuking America and going into our traditional spheres of influences for the power grab. As is China and Russia.
Of course we should not abandon the Kurds but with this administration there is no bright line of ideology or any principle to hold them to, and even less expectations of loyalty or a grand global strategy of some sort.
Oh god I even miss the days of W when at least we had some “strategeries” to speak of.
7
We should give this strategic withdrawal a name. Because this will haunt the US for the years to come. Something like appeasement to the fascist Erdogan.
Because it will work the same way appeasement worked for the britons on Hitler. Peace in our time - and a year later the nazis invaded their allies and they had to go to war.
4
If you believe or trust a single thing that comes out of this American President’s mouth, more fool you.
7
Erdogan was licking his chops when he bullied Trump and now....another failed effort to get his way....
1
Good Lord, Mike Bolton! Get out of the way so that Erdogan can explain directly to TRUMpp what he should think and say.
2
Sadly POTUS takes his orders from (besides Putin) a capraphile.
2
So they made Mattis quit for nothing.
Congrats!
7
"President Recep Tayyip Erdogan...denounced..... national security adviser John R. Bolton for comments he made ahead of his arrival."
Atta go John-Pit Bull-Bolton. Can't even get on the plane before your gross lack of diplomacy dribbles out of your mouth all over your chin and now dripping onto the floor. General George S. Patton has more diplomatic skills than you do,
7
I got to know a family of Kurdish refugees living in the US after escaping from Saddam Hussein's army with the help of the US military. They were brave, hard-working, capable people who have been working for approximately a century to create a nation for themselves because they were denied one in the aftermath of World War I due to negotiations between Britain, France, and Russia. They've been staunch allies of the US for a long time, and have done a great deal of the fighting against ISIS.
The thing is, Erdogan considers the Kurds to be terrorists intent on attacking his country, and would just as soon massacre them all. Erdogan is friendly with the US not because of his record on human rights (which is terrible), nor a shared believe in democracy (he's an autocratic leader), but because Turkey allowed the US to use its country as a missile base during the Cold War.
The Kurds are multiple-times victims of negotiations about the Middle East not involving people from the Middle East.
10
If Erdogan attempts or proceeds to harms the Kurds, our most faithful ally, Congress should pass legislation to override Trump's decision to act contrarily, and authorize limited retaliation against Syria, Turkey and Russia to protect them.
We must stop throwing our most important ally in that region under the bus, and counteract Trump who is unfit to be President, due to his private deals.
2
The US Congress hasn't even authorized the use of military force in Syria. Let's see them legislate the creation of a new nation inside Syria, before we go any further off on this undeclared political and military tangent.
2
It’s scary to think that we don’t have diplomats to negotiate this kind of thing before a policy is made public. It’s even scarier to think that we do.
11
Erdogan needs to keep the Kurds as a whipping boy, because if the Kurdish party receives too many votes and thereby too many representatives in the Turkish parliament, Erdogan will lose majority control, and the ability to change the Turkish constitution so he can continue to be dictator for life.
8
@W.A. Spitzer, Erdogan or no Erdogan, Turkey will never agree for Kurdish independence. I think this is a brilliant move by Bolton to stall the pullout.
1
Now we understand why Secretary Mattis resigned as well as others when the rash decision to withdraw our troops in 30 days from Syria was made by the president.
There were no plans in place for what happened to our ally who fought along with our troops the Kurds? What would happen to our military bases and weapons on the ground in Syria? and Who would continue the fight to defeat Isis?
50
@Sally. ISIS is a creation of and is funded by Saudi Arabia. If USA wants to defeat ISIS it needs to go to the source. Syria is not the source of ISIS so the USA does not need to stay in Syria to defeat ISIS. So that argument is a lie.
13
@Robert Jennings
It was a question not a statement of fact. The NYT had an interesting article by Rukmini Callimachi "Fight To Retake Isis Territory Begins" Sept. 11, 2018.
The point I was making was that the withdrawal of troops from Syria should have been well thought out and planned with advisors before it was announced.
2
That's why we should not deploy the military without congressional approval of clearly defined military objectives, and an exit strategy. When we deploy without these, we inevitably fall into proverbial quicksand.
5
The Art of Diplomacy by Donald Trump and John Bolton.
A how-not-to primer.
63
The idea that Turks will not destroy Kurds in Syria if they are given a chance is patently absurd. How could any one believe or expect something on that front from Sultan Erdogan?
91
@ss
This is just an idea, and is absurd. Its absurd to think that a NATO partner will ever do this without accountability.
5
@Allen Hah! You clearly do not understand the nature of NATO.
@ss there 20 million kurds living in Turkey (Erdogan's wife is among them) and nobody destroying them.
2
This is not the first time that the US has abandoned allies.
In the Vietnam Peace Accords, to encourage S. Vietnam to agree to the complete pullout of American troops, the US openly and secretly promised to come to the aid of S.Vietnamese if the N.Vietnamese again attacked. Once all American troops were withdrawn, the N.Vietnamese launched an offensive for which Saigon asked for the promised help, only to be ignored.
We even had secret plans to only evacuate US personnel, abandoning all S.Vietnamese that had been employed by the US. See "Last Days in Vietnam" on Amazon for the tragic details.
In effect what is occurring here is worse because by allowing the Turks to slaughter the Kurds while allowing Iran to move into Syria, our many allies in the area would, in effect, be abandoned as well.
Trump's policy of wanting to abandon allies is not new for the US, it is only different in that it is being handled in the chaotic way his administration is noted for.
44
Apparently Mr. Bolton thinks that Turkey should replace the U.S. as the restraining power in Syria, but coordinate all their actions with the U.S. and ask us for permission first. Republicans' naivete as to how foreign policy works would be charming, if it weren't our national security at risk.
55
If this is what winning looks like, we should give losing a chance.
77
It is so fascinating to see the rare case in which an appointment in the Trump administration can serve to make one of the most reviled people in the US get slightly rehabilitated. This neocon lunatic begins to look somewhat human when he goes up against Erdogan. Not that this represents a change of heart, he is still obsessed with defeating Iran, but in some contexts a crackpot idea can look inspired.
3
This article exemplifies why I will maintain my subscription to the NYT. The diversity of sources tapped and the depth of knowledge gained from professional journalists is both impressive and essential.
57
The problem with government by tweet is becoming dangerous as Trump's erratic and chaotic nature is reflecting in foreign governments misunderstanding official American policies. Trump could provoke military reactions by a crazed tweet threatening our military action with our adversaries already on edge about Trump's unstable handling of foreign affairs. Trump is now unrestrained by adults and could throw temper tantrum which causes a military reaction causing America to get into a military action losing American lives while Trump is relaxing at Mar-A-Lago .
6
Perhaps we should pull out of Turkey and leave it to Russia.
I question why Turkey is in NATO.
Erdogan is a dictator, who took Turkey further from democracy. He is obsessed with internal enemies, whether It be Gulanists or Kurds.
I don’t see why we should defend Turkey as its interests are clearly opposed to American ones. Q: Where was Turkey in the fight against Isis? A: Attacking our Kurdish allies.
23
@Bender Bending Rodriquez
Q: Who are ISIS? A. ISIS is a creation of Saudi Arabia.
Q: What has Syria to do with ISIS? A. Nothing
Q How will USA defeat ISIS? A. When it defeats Saudi Arabia.
Q. When will that happen? A. Never
8
@Bender Bending Rodriquez, I am no fan of Erdogan, or Putin. But one could also question why NATO exists. While the USSR was a marxist conglomerate formally at war with all capitalist nations, Russia is just a kleptocracy with a fairly strong but much smaller military. With the US involvement in Ukraine politics and ever more Baltic countries added, NATO has evolved into an everybody-but-Russia club that must seem threatening to them, and probably provokes actions like the annexation of Crimea and tightening control of the Kerch Strait.
2
This confusion is what results when a president fires his cabinet members for advancing ideas that disagree with the boss. With nobody to rein him in, Trump can make inconsistent statements on foreign policy, can start changes in foreign policy that are disastrous simply because Trump was unaware of the details.
To some extent, this is incompetence at running a cabinet and staff that extends to all parts of his presidency.
The trade war with China is another important case. Most respectable economists would emphasize that trade wars are not easy to win, that they can easily hurt both participants. But Trump has surrounded himself with sycophants that spend their time nursing the boss's ego, not designing policies that might work.
On their part, liberals seem to have forgotten that millions of people voted for Trump because they were dissatisfied with Obamacare because it was not universal, and with what appeared to be liberal lies that population growth could have no negative impacts because to suggest that, indeed to even discuss the impact of illegal immigration on possible shortages of medical care in the US was racist and bigoted.
Thus we find ourselves in a toxic environment in which President Trump deserves to be impeached, but this will deny Trump's supporters of the discussion on immigration that the US should have been having instead of name-calling of opponents.
The real problem is the decay of democracy. A one-party state is not democracy.
3
I'm going to miss John Bolton. It was a bold move, contradicting Trump and going over his head. But Bolton works for Trump, and Trump's bosses are Putin, Kim and Erdogan. Just as Erdogan ordered Trump to evacuate from Syria, he will now order Trump to fire Bolton. And Trump will be happy to oblige. As far as he's concerned, Bolton is a Democrat now. He's just another Mattis. Bolton humiliated Trump in front of his masters, not to mention the media and the entire world. Bolton may not have been the best pick for the job, but now Trump will face the same problem as he does with Mattis: nobody wants to be the replacement. Nobody wants to work for Trump. Nobody wants a meaningless job as an adviser to a deaf man. And Bolton's replacement won't even last as long as Bolton did... unless Trump decides to pick Jared.
24
Wow, more brilliant policymaking on behalf of Trump and Co. The art of the deal, indeed.
How much more incoherent can our Syria policy get? How much lower can American credibility go? Well, I guess we'll soon find out.
There truly is no bottom to this insanity.
38
I’ve been advocating US withdrawal, but the article causes me to doubt my reasoning. I think Erdogan capable of genocide, and he wants the Kurds to give up their national ambitions. Safe zones and no fly zones seem necessary. Don’t know.
4
@Mr. Little
"I think Erdogan capable of genocide..."
Turkey! Capable of genocide?! That's impossible. The Armenians will attest to this. How preposterous!
1
@Economy Biscuits It was in 1910s even before genocides were common everywhere in the world - remember Jews in Europe, Natives in Americas/US and Canada, Chinese and Koreans by Japanese, Africans by Europeans, Russians by Russians, A-bombs in Japan, Fire bombs in Germany, etc. So it appears we are all very capable of genocides. The YPG Kurds have forced millions of Arab Syrians from their homes. 4M of them are in Turkey now.
"Snubs?" Erdogan's response was more than a snub. A downright rejection.
15
Turkish desires for the Americans to leave Syria have been well known. But until Trump stampeded out of the barn on a horse with no saddle, saying prematurely that US forces would leave in thirty days (!), Turkey was contained by America's willingness and resolve to stay and continue fighting ISIS. As per usual Trump was swayed by a foreign leader (this time, Erdogan) and agreed to a policy change without even considering asking his own government for counsel and guidance. So because Trump would throw the Kurds under the bus and give the steering wheel to Iran, he loses Mattis. And now Bolton has to walk everything back, contradicting his own President. Erdogan snubs Bolton to make the Americans look even more foolish. Everybody is confused, because no one knows where the US truly stands, not even Americans. Welcome to Trump's world, year three.
36
@Rick Morris do you know where most of Kurds are currently living on the planet?
2
I am not a Trump supporter and believe his ideas are foolish and self serving, but having said that when is the US going to come to the realization that we cannot solve the problems in the middle-East with either money or military. We will always be intruders. The decisions between the various countries and their religions runs too deep for too long for the US to make any difference.
Time to become self reliant on energy and get out of the Middle-East entirely.
9
We should revisit Woodrow Wilson's doctrine that was implemented in Eastern Europe a century ago; when the question of self-determination was addressed. As a result, the Austro-Hungarian Empire was broken and replaced with a host of independent nations. It worked!
Why can't the principle of auto-determination be brought to the fore and discussed in regard to the Kurdish people, an ancient people who do not have their country, just because empires invaded their lands and subjugated them for centuries?
There must come a day of justice when there will be a free Kurdish country, carved from Turkey, Iran and Syria. To think otherwise it would cowardly, it would continue a great injustice that was done to the Kurdish people by the has-been empires, and nowadays by its intransigent neighbors of which Turkey is the most overtly playing the claims to be the inheritor - of the Ottoman Empire - with its de facto sultan, Erdogan the First!
8
@Nicholas
And the Ottoman Empire was broken up too and that has not worked out especially well.
"Why can't the principle of auto-determination be brought to the fore and discussed in regard to the Kurdish people..." And the Palestinians too?
@Nicholas
Makes sense but...
You would have to change national boundaries all across the African Continent never mind Kashmir, Koreas and groups with Europe, Catalans, Basques, Scots etc
Good for One! Good For All! (to paraphrase the Three Musketeers.)
Umiliviniq
2
One of the few times I've ever agreed with John Bolton. If we desert the Kurds, who will ever stand with us again?
5
@Diane Not to worry. Betraying the Kurds has been a traditional cornerstone of American foreign policy for half a century now. Kissinger, who used the Kurds as a pressure group vs. Saddam and then dumped them when they were no longer useful, was if anything cruder and more cynical about it than Trump. In the '80s, the poison gas used on the Kurds in Iraq was sold to Saddam by American corporations. And since all states in the Middle East with Kurdish minorities (not least Iraq!) want to suppress them and keep them in line, it would be a popular decision there, except that Assad and Putin are liable to step in as the Kurdish protectors, and likely do a better job of it than the US did. For the moment at least, though not in the long term.
2
@John Holmes
Cynicism is not in Trump's play book. One has to be smart first in order to be cynical.
@Rick Morris do not underestimate him. Yes, he is plenty smart enough to be cynical. He is no genius, stable or otherwise, but he is probably just about as smart as your average American. But no more so, unlike most politicians. One secret of his popularity with all too many average white Americans.
Foreign despots like Putin and Erdogan know they can go straight to Trump, convince him announce a policy that harms America, and enjoy the fruits of the chaos (or actual action). This shows how incompetent, small-minded, and compromised Trump is . The fact that we must now rely on Bolton to bring some sanity to our foreign policy reveals how dreadfully low America has sunk.
20
For a neocon he is surprisingly naive if they think Turkey will protect any Kurdish peoples.
18
No-one thinks we should be in Afghanistan forever--after 17 years, trillions of dollars, who knows how many dead and wounded, it's certainly time to get out. Genghis Khan was the only person who conquered that country.
If we had a decent commander in chief who spoke w/ his diplomats, a pullout might be possible. But Agent Orange makes foreign policy by tweet, esp. dangerous when there was hope for peace talks between ISIS and the Kurdish forces. Luckily, our military simply goes around him. So the "30 day withdrawal" becomes something more reasonable.
We must stand by the Kurds, who fought so bravely by our side to try to topple the dictator of Iran. The middle east has been a mess ever since W invaded Iraq, destroying the balance of power w Iran. Who knows when it will end?
8
@Rocky Mtn girl
So more military force is the answer? Sure hasn't worked very well in Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, etc.
2
John Bolton has gotten far ahead of his skis in his foolish attempt to grab hold of the situation in Syria. In the process he has caused his own President to make a fool of himself by making a reversal.
Mr Erdogan is falsely describe in the U.S. press as a brutal dictator. In truth he is our greatest, longest and only true ally in the Middle East. President Trump, unencumbered by any knowledge of the area has now made the situation there worse. He should have stuck with his original notion of withdrawing fro Syria now.
2
Bolton is speaking for Netanyahu and Erdogan knows it. What I want to know is what happened between Trump and Netanyahu that led to Trump's abrupt decision to abandon Israeli foreign policy in Syria.
10
Unlike Trump, Bolton knows that to betray the Kurds will only engender future problems against America. He was also trying to push Erdogan into a corner to agree to Bolton's vision of Middle East Pax...with or without Trump's blessing. Instead,we will see Trump and Erdogan roasting Bolton alive...
Trump is weakening our influence globally.
His cabinet members contradict him after he bows to one leader, in order to placate another, making the first one angry. Now we will watch him flip flop between trying to please Turkey and Israel.
He started a dialogue with Kim, just to demand all for nothing, and make him angry, so that he is now dealing with China.
He has insulted our neighbors, and criticized all of Europe, leaving our allies angered and ready to count us out.
He wishes to make friends with murdering despots who funnel large amounts of cash his way, while the counter is trying to sanction then for murdering people, or interfering in our elections.
I can not see one single area where he has done anything sensible. He is like a chicken running around with his head cut off, until no one knows what he will do or say, and no one trusts him.
This is the man who is representing US to the world!
14
Bolton clearly doesn't understand the chain of command here. He works for Trump. Normally Trump would work for the American people, but this administration works for strongman dictators around the world where he has a compromising relationship. The lesson is: don't disagree with your bosses boss.
The question for us is: is this the way we want our government to work? Mattis already gave his answer.
7
Hold on — did Erdogan not just write an Op-Ed in the Times declaring that he would protect the Kurds?
1
Erdogan, of course, blames Israel for Bolton contradicting Trump. Well, if that is true, kudos for Israel pulling America out of the hole Trump keeps digging for us.
3
Erdogan has murder in his eyes. And if Bolton can't make Trump look good, he's useless.
Pity the poor Kurds. A safe, autonomous region is out of the question. Their very survival not under one boot or the other is in serious doubt.
We appear to be entering our final acts in this part of the Middle East. Leaving not with a bang but with betrayal and a whimper.
2
What this article suggests to me is just how consistent, well thought-out, smoothly executed, and sagely advised today's American foreign policy is. Onward Trump Administration; into the cesspool's abyss, or is it abscess?
3
All this, and Mattis resigns. What a disaster. Why don't we start a peace dialogue between Erdogan and the Kurds? That has to happen eventually. One side is never going to be allowed to kill all of the other side (genocide).
1
Erdogan cannot be trusted and should not be considered a traditional NATO Partner. We need to remove all our nukes from the Tikrit Air Base and start the process of removing Turkey from NATO. They have Russian made S-400 surface to air missiles and are a part of NATO? Which other NATO country has S-400 air defences? Erdogan is the closest thing to the devil alive today. That includes MBS and Orange Man Bad.
YPG/YPD the one defended Northern Syria from boodthirsty Isis and cihadies. they defend Kurdish also all the ethnic communites from these mosters. Turkey's interest to establish a state in Syria with groups like Isis and muslum brotherhood they have very good relations as they trained, equiped and logistically help them with intension of using them against Kurds and other minorities. To asking Turks to protec Kurds like asking wolf to look after lamb... we saw all that in the past like Cizire, Diyarbakir-Sur
2
Only possible in the world of total lunacy known as the Trump presidency is John Bolton a voice of sanity and reason.
1
Turkey and Erdogan’s oppression of “ordinary Kurds” makes clear that he sees all Kurds as terrorists or potential terrorists. His attempt at differentiating between them in public comments is dishonest at its core. Erdogan’s policies regarding Syria helped contribute to ISIS’s rise there and he continues to play a role in the chaos roiling the Middle East. Just another corrupt authoritarian strongman buddy of Putin and his sock puppet Trump.
4
What a wasted opportunity. Bolton could have advised Erdogan to build a big beautiful wall along his southern border.
4
Okay, well Bolton wanted a more muscular foreign policy. Is this supposed to be it? He should resign.
1
So Turkey's Erdogan has said that Mr. Bolton made a "grave mistake" when he said that Turkey must agree to protect Syria's Kurds in the event of an American withdrawal from Syria, and has now Erdogan has refused to meet with John Bolton today but will reportedly meet in a few days with Putin.
Who knew that the national security advisor John Bolton would be sounding like a voice of reason in holding Erdogan accountable and protecting our constant ally in Syria the Kurds as we plan for withdrawal. It seems that when Trump made his rash announcement for a 30 day withdrawal from Syria there were no plans in place about what happened to the Kurds, our military bases and weapons, and the continued effort to defeat Isis.
3
We need a sane relationship with Iran, no matter what our other allies prefer. Iran is the key to stabilizing the entire region. Iran can be brought back into the first world, but that will never happen as long as the US reflexively treats them as a pariah state and continually works to destabilize it.
Allowing Egypt to float to whatever form of government the population chooses, without intervention, and then supporting that government would go a long way toward regional stability, too.
Unfortunately the US government continues to labor under the delusion that we can still dictate world political conditions the same way that we did in 1950.
7
About the same with our energy policies.
2
When people heard Trump wanted to pull out of Syria, everyone screamed "What about the Kurds who fought alongside us?!"
Now that Bolton would like them protected, everyone is saying he made a misstep. Very interesting, seems like the administration can't win either way.
1
@Don Q
Isn't Bolton's misstep not that he wanted the Kurds protected, but that he has simply come off looking naive, as if his (and Trump's) words would ever carry any weight with Erdogan?
2
@Don Q
Trump and Bolton can't just order Turkey to protect the Kurds.
Perhaps if Trump had had a conversation with Erdogen to plan a coordinated American withdrawal from Syria before Trump sent out his tweet things might be different. But that isn't how Trump rolls.
3
@Don Q: Chaos creates more chaos. Trump and his administration are all over the map, nobody knowing what the heck is going on.
Chaos. And it's going to get way worse before anything gets better. Nothing will get better until Trump is removed from office.
Nothing.
5
This raises a question dogging the Trump White House: Who's in charge? Clearly not Mr. Bolton, who might try to make policy but, like Vice President Pence, had his legs cut off (Pence by Trump regarding the Border wall, Bolton by Erdogan) while en route to the negotiating table. President Trump, unable to grasp complicated foreign policy issues, tries to reduce all of them to simplistic, meaningless slogans his base will swallow as MAGA Scripture. Thus immigration reform becomes "Americans first," whatever that means. Foreign policy becomes "America first," a know-nothing, see-no-evil, suck-up-to-dictators withdrawal into insularity and xenophobia, combined with insanely expensive and dubiously prioritized military force expansion. Despite years of Beltway employment and influence-seeking, Bolton, a perennial war hawk who describes his views as "pro-American," has been a cheerleader for one failed US Mideast folly after another, most notably the disastrously botched invasion and occupation of Iraq, from which ISIS arose. This most recent bellyflop demonstrates his vainglorious amateurism, and that of his unreflecting boss. The Trump administration is not up to the job of creating, let alone implementing, a wise foreign policy, and with the likes of Bolton on staff will never be.
136
Armchair foreign policy, this is what Bolton should be tagged with. Seems Trump is OK with admitting Assad won and we didn't, but not Bolton. Only Congress has the power to declare war, so where are they? Withdraw, the sooner the better. Afghanistan, too. Who knows what we can spend the savings on?
5
In this Administration, any savings would be spent on even more tax cuts for the hugely wealthy.
37
we all do recall that President Obama asked Congress to formally authorize UD military action in Syria but Congress did nothing.
4
@Marty Rowland, Ph.D., P.E.
Look -- Assad won a long time ago against the Free Syrian Army. The question here is who controls the Kurdish region of Syria-- Assad or Erdogan (I am afraid it is not likely to be the Kurds -- we have betrayed them once again).
4
In the continually shifting sands of the Mideast it is hard to see where any productive alliances are in this conflict. Of course we owe a debt to the Kurds but should we continue to engage? The Kurds have been fighting for independence since at least the '70s. The Israeli-Palestinian conflict has been going on for 3 generations. The Sunni-Shia struggle for even longer. It is no wonder that only autocrats thrive without Western world help.
The battle of good vs. evil was crystal clear when it came to fighting ISIS but perhaps could have been avoided if we had a smart Iraq reconstruction policy. It seems there could be a sane, moral path forward for the US but our politics are either too divided or too nationalistic or too materialistic (or all three) for us to create nuanced, strong, morally clear choices that rewards democratic allies (if there are any) and punishes authoritarians.
Policies that turn 180 degrees based on who is in power in the US do more harm than good. The easier thing is to pull out and leave it to Russia and China to sort out. But perhaps we need a break.
11
@Chris W. I agree with your comment except for the statement "It is no wonder that only autocrats thrive without Western help". It is in fact the exact opposite. Without the support of the US (and Russia to a lesser extent) the autocrats around the Middle East would have fallen like dominoes including the Saudi monarchy, the Emirati Sheikhdom, the Egyptian president, the King of Jordan and several others. It is South America all over again. The more we intervene, the longer it takes for a true democracy to set in.
66
@Chris W., in "the continually shifting sands of the Mideast" the Kurds have been our only, emphasis on the only, constant ally. To leave them now would assure our other allies that America does not consider those who fight alongside us, during our time of need, to be of any value when those needs are reversed.
162
@Rick Gage, I strongly disagree. The Kurds (whether PUK or KDP) have never done anything for the U.S. that was not in their own interest, and they have refused to do many things that were in their interest. They have been very careful not to burn their own bridges in the region, and we owe them nothing before we pull out other than as much advance notice as we can give.
5