When the government shuts down, let's stop issuing paychecks (and health insurance benefits) to those in Congress. Maybe if they start hurting a little, they might have some incentive to work together to get things moving again.
Our government is now the subject of derision throughout the world. We have lost "world power" status and going the way of the Roman Empire. I don't expect the United States as we know it today to be in existence 100 years from today.
2
The GOP is spineless, corrupt, incompetent, and heartless. Cowards all, rather than do the right thing and override DJT’s temper tantrum veto, they will let hundreds of thousands of people go without paychecks over the holidays. They are too afraid of right wing media and the bonkers base, so they let people suffer. The whole party is beyond despicable.
2
Buried in the reply to one of the comments below is this, which we know, but half forget that we know:
"The book House of Trump House of Putin by Craig Unger reports that McConnell has been steadily receiving Kremlin money the day Trump got the Republican nomination.
There is an appendix at the end of the book that lists verifiable published sources that you may independently check out."
You can also read "How Mitch McConnell Made Donald
Trump," co-written by NY Times and ProPublica.
Dark money from Russia goes to NRA, among others, and from there into our elections.
And we wind up with a weird guy, isolated in his white house, shutting down our country unless he gets his absurdly useless wall.
2
Beware of Trump early next year. With so many horrible pressures crushing his ego, his being denied his border wall may just push him over the edge; and if it is not this issue, it will be some other major confluent setback (a continuing tanking market, Mueller, congressional subpoenas of tax returns or business records exposing him to god-knows-what, impeachment . . .)
Then what does a spoiled brat do when his toys are about to be taken away and given to another? In his humiliation and black frustration, he breaks all the toys with an “I’ll show you!” attitude.
But this is real life - as real and senseless as the Nazis laying waste to French villages in their last retreat in World War II. Trump will “show” all of us. He will do something that will inflict terrible damage on the whole country as he sinks into a paranoid and hateful mental collapse. He will not go quietly, I guarantee you!
3
Is it true that the Mexican government is willing to pay for a wall after all? Think the only condition is that it be placed around the White House for about two years to contain lying criminals. Oh well... one can dream.
2
And the little boy cried, "I'm the victim!, I'm the victim!", I'm the victim! Now we are.
1
There's a sense of public apathy that seems ominous to me.
2
Another Shutdown sure helps to make America Great Again.
Way to go !
Now let us see if the NY Times has , shall we say , the guts or courage to tell us , before Dec 31st, how much of a salary increase Congress has given itself for the year 2019. That increase would be for doing an exceptional job of managing this great country of ours !
1
Trump wants to run Government into a ditch and let it rot. Corporate minded republicans see Government as a meddler, impeding their paths to profit and taking their earnings in taxes. A shutdown is no problem to Trump. All the people who aren't affected and agree with him take it as further proof that reducing Government, and it's ability to oversee and set fair standards, is all for the better. It's just one more step on his path to make America a Third World Banana republic.
1
Mr. Trump:
Half a loaf is better than none. Start your project with funds you have. When you run out, ask for more (from Mexico). Tariff goods going TO Mexico not FROM Mexico via an "Export Tax". If Mexico buys elsewhere (which they will) the injured US companies will fund Democrats in the 2020 elections, and we will finally have a chance of cleaning House (and Senate too). Your election was based on changing the Washington DC crowd. You succeeded in eliminating Jeff Sessions from the Senate, and loads of House Republicans. Your wrecking ball is now about to descend on the rest of the Southern Republican Party. I say "Hooray" for the "Demander and Chief" for keeping the promises he made to "Drain the Swamp" of the Republican Party.
3
I'm not sure what leverage the President has. He has boxed himself in, proving he is not the master deal maker he claims to be -- and never was. All that Democrats really need to do is to wait until January, when they take control of the House and will have vastly increased leverage. If worst comes to worst, and Trump still is holding his breath and turning blue, the House and Senate can pass legislation to open up most of the government anyway, and the House can attach riders that will give the President fits. If Trump thinks he's having trouble now, just wait until the House starts passing legislation
20
Pretty sure next pay check is coming. Pay period ended Saturday but our agency and probably others turned in time early last week. But regardless as a government employee I just hope it is short.
10
@Pat
Don’t you eventually get paid for all the shutdown days—whether you worked or not?
Our government, with every branch under the control of the GOP, has now shut down for the third time in 2018. Three times in one year!
Their casual willingness to do this repeatedly - which means services stop, parks close, and most importantly, millions of Americans stop getting their paychecks - is a perfect indicator of the utter contempt Republicans in government, starting with Trump, hold for ordinary Americans.
This is a party that has no interest in actually governing, let alone the competence to do so.
37
I think the wall is absolutely idiotic and the Democrats should not give a cent. However, I am a federal employee asked to come to work this week. It is unclear whether my pay will be delayed or not— pay that I need to pay my rent and bills. Many will return from the holidays to furloughs and those most impacted may already be experiencing this. My sense is that with the majority of every agency and organization out for the next 10 days, the same attention has not been paid to this shutdown simply because it coincides with many people’s planned vacations. Frankly, it’s unfair that Congressional representatives continue to earn pay while millions of others do not. It gives them a skewed perspective and removes pressure to fix this. Let’s not forget who’s really responsible, however. As Trump said last week, “I am proud to shut down the government... I will be the one to shut it down.”
30
@Emily
It's not Congress that shut down the government, quite on the contrary, Congress did it's job by passing a bipartisan government funding bill, so why would they not be paid?
Trump alone is responsible for deciding to not signing it into law. None of the decisions of the head of the Executive branch can ever have an influence over the paychecks of those working in the Legislative branch of government, in a democracy ...
The Republicans, in power in the White House, a majority in the Senate, a majority in the House of Representatives, and recently a majority on the Supreme Court, have shown us once again that they are incapable of governing.
It is important to note that none of the people listed above will suffer in the least from this crisis which they have manufactured. They are completely insulated from the consequences of their actions. You can be assured that the heat will be on in the White House, and the halls of Congress will be adequately supplied with toilet paper.
31
So we have 380,000 furloughed, and another 420,000 working federal employees, all without being paid, and the Administration and Congress just shrug their shoulders.
What a sorry uncaring bunch. They couldn't care less about those folks, many who will have to pass up on their children's Christmas this year.
44
With three illegitimate branches of the federal government - the legislative by gerrymandering and voter suppression, the executive largely installed by a foreign power, and the judicial bought and paid for by right wing money launderers and drug lords (read Citizen's United again and who is contributing to these Supreme Court nominees), what real difference does it make if the government shuts down or not? They all get paid when it's over so it's just an extended vacation period for everyone. The Republican party is so vindictive that for nearly a decade now when it can't get what it wants to further it's radical and fascist agenda, it shuts down the government trying to make the Democrats look incompetent and impotent - which they do on their own, thank you. It supports a president who is arguably insane because they get radical right wing nut judiciary. When the Democrats were in power they did nothing. What, in reality, did they accomplish? Why didn't they shut down the government when they couldn't get a vote on a supreme court justice that was duly nominated, when they still had an iota of power? And so Nancy Pelosi is going to be in charge again. She already oversaw the destruction of and takeover of the party by the Clintons who bought and paid for it. What I'm getting at is in the end, it makes no difference whether the Dems or the Republicans are in charge. They're all crooks and bums, bought and paid for, but not truly duly elected by the people.
This shutdown could have been averted, present the bill agreed upon by the House, Senate and WH to the president, he either refuses to sign it or vetoes it, if he refuses to sign it, it becomes law in 20 days, if he vetoes it, you override his veto. The republicans own this mess, because they are catering to the man-baby!
6
Of course the GOP congress are "resigned" to their government shutdown lasting a long time. Their "leader", President Chaos, not only created this mess, he states on national televison that he is "proud" of this shutdown.
And what the heck do the Republicans care?
They all still get their salaries!
Wonder how they feel when they get to the airports and have to face all the "essential" TSA agents who are NOT getting paid.
Vote every Republican congressman out of office in 2020.
6
Those bums in congress and the senate have long demonstrated that they don't care. They're all still collecting paychecks, health care and retirement. So they aren't showing up for work. They never did anything when they did show up.
7
I support the undefinite shutdown of the government.
For the FIRST time in two years, Democrats finally have stood up the madman.
I support them.
The fate of the entire country is at stake.
When the next Congress is seated, I will be messaging my Representative each day: "Impeach Trump and Pence. Make America American Again!"
5
Dear Donald - why don't you just drop the demand for wall, forever, and get the government reopened. Then tweet about how self-sacrificing you are and how you own the wonderfulness of American workers getting back to work? A lot of people may actually buy that stuff. I won't, but it would get people I know back to work and that would make me happy. So would no wall, ever. Merry Christmas!
3
This is just trump making America great again.
3
Your headline says that lawmakers are "resigned" to the government shutdown. It would be more accurate to say they are *indifferent* to a shutdown.
Until Trump intimidated the Republicans, there were plenty of Republican votes to pass enough continuing resolutions to permit the executive branch to limp along. Together with Democrats, they could have overridden Trump vetoes. But when push came to shove, despite fine words, their already flexible backbones melted.
Forcing the operational side of government to subsist on continuing resolutions, year after year, has been extremely irresponsible. Indifference to shutdowns is unspeakably irresponsible -- and gutless.
3
Since the amnesty deal in '86, Democrats have refused to back effective border enforcement of any sort. Now Democrats have sanctuary cities,localities refusing to cooperate with ICE, drivers licenses for illegals along with automatic voter registration and numerous Democratic calls for open borders.
This needs to be stopped now. The wall is partially symbolic but nevertheless a strong message that this double dealing ends now.
The Democrats have absolutely no incentive to reach an accord before January.
My solution: The Democrats will offer $2 billion for border security (that’s “border security” not a “border wall”), provide, however, Trump makes a public statement that Mexico will never pay for his wall.
A little contrition would suite Trump well at this point.
4
I think I see a solution that might satisfy everybody, though it involves giving Trump his border "wall", at least something like the version with the steel slats he shared the other day.
Critics of that design have pointed out that the gaps between the slats appear to be around 9" wide. This is wide enough for slim people to slip through, including, one supposes, at least some Mexicans and Central Americans.
On the other hand, Trump himself would not be able to slip between the gaps in the slats.
If we pointed out to the Mexican government that this design would be very effective in keeping Trump out of Mexico, they might be persuaded to fund it after all. Then Trump would "keep his promise", DEMs wouldn't have to shell out $5B of precious taxpayer funds and we could move on to more important issues.
1
The Taylor Law is imposed on government employees who strike. They are fined 2 days for every missed day of work. A similar punishment should apply to Congress but far more severe. For every day of the shutdown all the millionaires in Congress should be fined one month’s pay and then be placed on a one year pay furlough. To think that members of Congress suffer no financial effect while thousands suffer is outrageous.
7
No one should shrug as employees of the Federal Government go without a paycheck.This is a profound lack of governing. Already Trump has degraded the Judiciary, shown disdain for the Legislative Branch ,made a chaotic mess of the Executive function and managed to be at odds with the military.He has tried to make our government disappear and replace it with Trump Inc.It is our government and there will soon be a showdown about whether we as citizens can control the government or whether an incompetent with authoritarian tendencies is going to take the day.
7
Electronic surveillance only can do so much and cannot be the whole package.
Walls have been around for centuries and they have demonstrated their worth.
Here is the problem with electronics surveillance. Sure all the electronic surveillance will pick out illegal aliens on the more and when they cross and unfenced portion of our border and then border patrol can speed to the sport, catch and arrest them.
HOWEVER the problem is they are on US Soil and can make an asylum claim. Our goal should be to stop before they set foot on US Soil and thus cannot make an asylum claim.
Walls provide that extra layer of defense which can stop them from setting foot on US Soil We need both defenses - a Wall and electronic defense.
@judyweller - We don't NEED a wall. Here is what we need...
1. For Americans to stop buying drugs that have their source in Central American drug cartels, i.e. heroin and about 50% of the marijuana in circulation (See FBI website for stats on drug sources). We are financing the operations of the cartels and they are making life hell for the people of Central America, who then, ironically, immigrate here.
2. For Americans to stop selling guns to the Central American drug cartels. Once they have our money from our drug purchases, they use a portion of it to buy their weapons on American black markets. They use some of the rest to corrupt local police and officials in their home countries.
3. We need to stop shipping hardened criminals back to places like Guatemala and El Salvador after they've served prison time here. This is what we are doing with MS-13.
4. We need to help our neighbors create conditions that don't make it necessary for people to flee their countries.
5. We need a bigger seasonal workers' visa system so that field workers can come and go in the agricultural sector through legal means.
In short, futile attempts at hardening the border are a major waste of our taxpayer dollars because they do nothing but fail at treating the symptoms while doing nothing about the disease.
The 5 points above are the "short version". There's lots more we need to do but space limitations prevent me from going further.
@judyweller
Congress could solve the problem much more inexpensively and more effectively simply by changing the asylum laws so they can't be gamed by the migrants.
1
@J Jencks You talk about not shipping hardened criminal back to their home countries when their jail sentence is finished. What would you do with them? Release them into the US public? Life imprisonment? Automatic execution? You raise a question but offer no real solution to the problem.
Personally I believe we should speed up the manufacture or robots for field work - there are already some that can pick strawberries, dig up potatoes etc. We need more development of these robots so that eventually we can eliminate the need for farm workers.
If the Federal workers on furlough return and spend all their time on FOX TeeVee during work or diddling thier phones chatting with Coulter and Windbag during work, will they still get paid like the #ONE Federal Employee in Chief?!?!??
All these people who say government workers "don't do anything all day anyway" should think about a PRESIDENT who sits in front of the TeeVEe waiting for an entertainment company to tell him what the next move should be.
The ENTIRE CONGRESS should be let go too for allowing this farce to continue one more day.
THEY are the real "do nothings" in this scenario.
7
Last I checked until January the GOP still holds majorities in the House and Senate. They have for two years. Not sure why they haven’t given Trump his wall. Taking this to the Democratic leadership is theatre when they own the legislature and therefore the shutdown lock, stock, and barrel. Everyone but the base knows this good and well.
8
@notfooled i agree this should have been done much sooner.
1
When ever the shutdown ends ALL federal employees should call out sick the following day! Send a message to Dandy Don that they will not be mistreated with the "good labor practices" employed over the last thirty years by unfit number 45.
4
Mick Mulvaney sounded like a lying, bumbling, Buffoon yesterday on the morning show, This Week, incompetent and embarrassing is the new state of the Whitehouse.
Donald Trump should just stop the charade and bring into the Whitehouse his new team of advisor's, Rush Limbaugh, Ann Coulter, Sean Hannity, David Duke and any other fringe nut you can think of....Alex Jones.
10
The culture of corruption rotten to the core Trump who thrive on chaos and drama. Trump is not getting paid I hear so we better not pay for any more of his 3 million plus visits to Florida he takes weekly. I have had enough of this unhinged Trump and his out of touch party. His fake wall is not needed . You ask the mayors of our southern towns how bad the Mexican crime rate is. They will tell you this is fake to avoid the real issues affordable health care , homelessness and the severe climate problems we are expecting because of the GOP bringing back coal. Very sad we have to share the country with these bad people who are supported by the Catholics and evangelicals.
6
If they weren’t resigned, they’d have to keep working.
4
It seems to me that the solution to all this is as follows. Instead of having Mexico pay for our Wall, would it not make more sense for us to pay for a Mexican Wall on their side of the boarder, as well as its manning and up keep. This would solve multiple problems. 1. The cost would be drastically reduced. 2. Probably less environmental impact. 3. It would give employment to people who might otherwise come to this county for employment thus limiting their incentives. We would ensure that we have agents also inspect the wall and make sure no one is passing without proper papers in an agreement with continued payment from us for them to man and maintain the wall. My proposed solution seems like the smartest and most economical route forward. I hope you agree.
1
This could go on for a long time, as there is no great urgency in solving this crisis.
The only ones feeling the pain are a great number of federal employees.
Trump feels that he has a winning issue with his base.
The Democrats feel that public opinion is with them.
I say that they should find some compromise.
Trump really wants the wall and he is probably willing to compromise on other things that are more important.
How about a deal that significantly enhances Health Care?
@El Lucho: How about ransoming the "Dreamers" by approving some funds for that stupid Wall? It nearly happened during some earlier, now-forgotten budget negotiations.
@El Lucho
Are you unaware of the sorry history of "deals" with
Trump? Just the single fact that not one U.S. Bank will
loan him so much as a dollar tells us loud and clear what to expect from him. And your health care enhanced at the expense of others who want to come here and make a life for themselves? That's the deal you want to make?
And who is going to pay for the shutdown of the American government, while Trump fiddles and Congress gets to go home for the holidays?
MEXICO of course!
6
@avrds
That's why Mnuchin is there this week....bringing home the pinata filled with pesos to pay for the wall!!!!
Trump will announce this next week.!
1
I'm getting tired of the Trump supporters on the cable news shows claiming in the 2016 election the people voted for Trump and his wall. NO THEY DIDN'T! The people voted for Hillary and against the wall by almost 3 million votes. And according to recent polls the " people" are still against Trump and his wall. Anytime a Trump pundit, acolyte, or supporter throws out that drivel about the people voted for Trump and his ridiculous wall,they should be challenged and corrected immediately.
29
Is it possible that Mr Trump will learn a lesson from his childish impulsive behavior and inability to stick with a decision he has made for more than one day?
3
@RLW The short answer? No.
4
The problem for Trump with shutdown is that once the gov't is closed, less news gets generated, because less is happening. So what extremes will he go to keep himself in the headlines?
2
Why not ??? THEY are still being incredibly overpaid, with benefits for Life.
Happy Holidays.
“...much ado about very little,” says Toomey. US went to the polls and hired a president and congress to run the country---jobs with good pay and great benefits. Now things have gotten difficult--so they shut down the country and went on vacation. If US were really run like a business, they all would be fired (with no severance pay)
13
It is all show and no substance with Trump. And it is all about power, greed and vindictiveness with McConnell. So at what point is the Republican Congress going to finally do the job that they swore to do and are paid to do.
If these people had a regular job in a company they all would have been fired by now
Too bad we have to wait two years to fire them. A lot more damage can happen in that time frame.
Hopefully the Mueller investigation will get rid of a lot of the players directly involved in trying to ruin out country.
2
Think how powerful this makes Trump feel. All alone he shut down the US government. Wrong lesson being learned so far.
1
@JP I remember the boastful comment in which he stated "I alone can fix it". Yup, he fixed it. He also stated that presidents that allowed shutdowns were weak. Hmm. Isn't this shutdown number three for Trump. What does that say about Trump.
3
Time to implement an old idea recently brought up by soon-to-be Member of Congress Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez: When there is a shutdown of the federal government, members of congress and the senate don't get paid just like the rest of government workers. As it is now, these "solons" are held harmless for their fecklessness. Toss the prez in there, too...
16
Ascribing rational motives to this president (aside from his own commercial and legal interests, which he perceives dimly) just won't work. The firing of Comey, the withdrawal from Syria, the hastened departure of Mattis, the vacancies across the cabinet, the war against our political and economic allies, and friendships with dictators such as Putin, the Saudi Crown Prince, and Kim Jong Un are the product of a dangerously unhinged, megalomaniac mind. If Trump does not resign, he should be removed from office at the earliest possible moment.
2
Note To Pres. Trump: Please do not lower your demand for wall funding unless or until Congress passes legislation that will require asylum-seekers to designated ports of entry, and to allow all those who fail to follow these instructions to be returned without a hearing.
1
@David Farrar It is amazing to think that for many years we had an immigration issue on the southern border with persons entering illegally. Some were caught, others evaded capture and deportation. There were no big horror stories about those seeking asylum.
In recent years the apprehensions of people at the southern border were less than than those who entered legally on visas and overstayed those visas.
Then along comes a charlatan who, needing a signature promise, makes up statistics, energizes a base into believing everyone coming through that border is a gang member, carries diseases, smuggles drugs, or will get here and seek public assistance. He made many believe there is an "invasion" of bad hombres.
Well, just a cursory look at government statistics tells a much different story.
So, building a vanity wall will serve no purpose save giving Trump a, well, win, along with driving up debt and deficit, just the things he promised to get under control.
Trump has conned many.
6
Bah Humbug!
Shut it all down in protest and may all the ghosts of Presidents past haunt Mar Lago and the biggest Christmas goose of all.
2
Well, now that Trump made this the signature event of his presidency we are all holding our breath to see who will blink first. What a sham! What a joke we have for POTUS! How sad is this!
7
let the Trump Shutdown roll on. It belongs to Trump, as he said.
5
All government shutdowns are stupid. Always have been. Shutdowns are acts of hostage taking for ransom. This time, it's Trump's shutdown (or Limbaugh, or Coulter's). The hostages are, as always, the American people at large and Government employees in particular, some 800,000 of them and their families, on the Eve of Christmas.
The ransom is the wall, the useless and expensive wall.
This is so unreal that future historians will be baffled for centuries, as the rest of the world is right now at this episode of the American experience.
17
Why isn't the American people and their representatives calling out Trump's promise to make the Mexican government pay? Isn't he a deal maker?
Why are government workers paying the price for the dysfunction of the institutions that they serve?
17
Why would the government and its employees care about a shutdown - they will all get paid. During previous so-called shutdowns, those who were "temporarily laid off" were paid for the time they missed work during the shutdown. A paid vacation.
With the current Congress and Administration more interested in making a point rather than being responsible to the electorate and the greater good it appears they have given all of us the gift that keeps on giving - politics - rather than governing. Happy Holiday.
4
@Robert MacDonald some people need money for rent or the mortgage or car payments. I don't know where you live, but most landlords won't say "ohh its ok just pay me when you have it. Government shutdown i understand", the bank isn't easy to tell "just wait a few weeks I'll have the full mortgage". Or even the local taxes, if they're do, you can't tell city hall to wait until the federal government pays you. How about gasoline to get to the federal jobs? Where they getting money for gas to go to work for free from?
4
I wish people would stop with the LIE that civil servants get 'retro' or 'back' pay after furloughs end...IT IS NOT TRUE. Only those who were compelled to work during the shut-down get paid.
Retro Pay was granted only once and that was during the Clinton Admin. Recently retired Civil Servant.
5
@Robert MacDonald
Here's the deal, which may come as a surprise to you. The government employees I know are working on projects they care about and they are invested in having those projects succeed. A shutdown, particularly a long one, means they don't get to keep pace with their work and it delays their successes. Employees are not allowed to access their computers or offices or phones, so they can't keep working regardless. It's not just about the paycheck, and even if it were, there is never a guarantee they will be paid. Past performance does not predict future returns....
2
As of January 3, it will take 22 Republicans in the Senate and 55 Republicans in the House along with all of the Democrats in both to override the presidential veto that requires a two-thirds vote in both Houses. That is the quickest way to end the shutdown. But how do you convince these Republicans that the country is more important than their party and fealty to the President and his base?
38
Kevin McConville | Houston
I am confused why the Democratic leadership has not put forward a strategy of Trump as the master negotiator be be able to orchestrate a deal where Mexico pays for the wall and that it would be unwise to fund the wall before giving him a chance to negotiate such a deal? Wouldn’t that strategy make sense and put him on the spot to deliver as there would be even less leverage if the wall were already under construction?
Wouldn’t his ardent supporters agree the construction of the wall is directly tied to Mexico paying for it and his incredible negotiating ability? How could he realistically argue to fund before receiving payment? Wouldn’t that strategy change the narrative and make him acknowledge, at least subliminally, Mexico will never pay?
23
@Kevin McConville I can see the negotiations with Mexico . Vincente Fox is the chief negotiator for Mexico and our grifter for the United States. A match made in, well, not heaven.
1
Excuse me, McConnell is not being "uncharacteristically restrained" toward Democrats. He is trying to figure out a way to blame the continuing shutdown on them. Sorry, Mitch, the Senate is still controlled by the Republicans. If the Senate doesn't vote to fund the government, it's on you, buddy, not the Democrats.
47
Schumer is refusing any compromise. We all know he’s stalling until the Dems take over the House in January.
We all know that that’s not true, actually. Trump had a deal, accepted it, then blew it up. Ask Coulter why.
23
@Jackson Spoils of "war". Trump had his choice.
Trump blew it, so, when opportunity knocks....
2
Trump is shutting down the US government until Mexico pays for the wall.I
Isn't that an artful deal?
You go mr president. Show them who is the boss.
9
Like parents ignoring children who throw a tantrum during a visit to a supermarket, democrats should ignore republicans. Nancy and Chuck, make like a teenager, and get disinterested in anything Trump and republicans say about shutting down government. Don't go to the white house, don't return their texts (okay, maybe let them see the dot dot dots, but don't type). Pretend like you did not hear them.
They have one clear agenda, and it is to destroy you on their way to a total cash grab for their constituencies (er., that would be the MAGA set and the religious-ethnic nationalists).
Why talk to people who want to destroy you and the country in the process?
Don't buy them the candy they want. Or else you know what happens. Tantrums are best ignored, don't positively reinforce them. Thank you kindly.
15
@Kalidan
Parents who ignore a child’s tantrum do not understand that the child has lost control of his young emotions and needs assistance to be calmed. A wam bath often can help if available. Eventually the child often exhausts his underdeveloped nervous system and falls asleep. It is sad that so many parents just don’t understand this
Trump is not a child —don’t insult children
Only because government employees are not getting paid this coming payday does not mean that the shutdown has just began.
The government has been shutdown as of two years ago when a man who doesn’t know how to govern—and doesn’t care about governance—was elected by the antiquated electoral college.
10
It appears that roughly 380,000 government workers are "non-essential" in the context of the partial shut-down of the federal government ("non-essentials"). Say Trump wished to fire all of these non-essentials and proposed to Congress that he be allowed to do that. Such a proposal would have gone nowhere. Now, however, without having had to do anything like that, the non-essentials are no longer on the payroll. Same end result. Why then would Trump ever end the shut-down without a provision making permanent severance of these non-essentials?
1
@Percy41
Great idea. what the permanent closure of all National Parks (entirely run by "non-essential" employees) would do to America's sense of national pride, not to mention our tourism industry and economy. Way to go!
Trump and the Republicans worked feverishly to eliminate healthcare for 10s of millions of Americans for the past 2 years. They could care less about 800,000 government workers being furloughed or working without pay indefinitely.
47
If by Washington you mean the people that live here, then a shrug is not a typical reaction. When people do not know when or if they will have any income, they stop many purchases which in turn may force businesses that depend on their custom to close. Cash flow counts. This political stunt will hurt a lot of people.
15
What do we need a wall for?
To keep out the criminals, drug addicts, drug mules, the caravan, the rapists....
Funny place for Secretary Mnuchin to choose to take HIS family for Christmas holiday vacation.
From CNN 12-23-18:
"The secretary,(Mnuchin) who has been visiting his children in Cabo San Lucas, Mexico, tried to get ahead of further market jitters following reports that President Donald Trump was consulting advisers about whether he had the legal authority to fire Federal Reserve Chairman Jerome Powell."
From his "message to bankers" yesterday, sounds like he may have had a few Corona's before he called....rambling message about off topic subject......
These people are SO tone deaf. WE are supposed to pay for the wall that Trump promised Mexico would pay for to keep out the riff raff.
Maybe Mnuchin is going to bring back a peso stuffed Pinata to pay for the wall? And put if on Trump's desk, so he can go exchange it for dollars where it will promptly disappear.
Ridiculous. I am SO ANGRY for Christmas Eve. I have lost high 5 figures, almost 6, to date in my 401K.
Trump makes me sick.
32
Gosh, this is great reality t.v. What's next? Jim Mattis back from the grave? An alien invasion? Again? What, this one's from Uranus? No, from Trump's, silly. Do they want to eat us or just steal our air and water. Let 'em have it. Trump doesn't think we need it anyway. And tell the little green monsters the CO2 is on the house. Meantime, it seems like a heck of a long run...just to get to January 2. Will Trump just sell the nuclear codes to Putin tomorrow. He's giving his BFF the new Soviet Union by pulling out of the Middle East and Nato. Adios, Europe. Wonder what the Prez is planning for us on New Year's Eve. Maybe he'll say what a "proud nationalist" he is. Too bad the nation he's so proud of is not us.
1
Much ado about another Supreme Court pick. That is why they put up with the stench and the fact that an old man is inappropriately touching lady liberty. Hell, they won’t mind if he even molests her. We must keep our eyes on ye bigger prize pence was heard to whisper to McConnell. Not sure if it meant himself or something else.
3
Rome had Nero to burn down the city.
Britain's King George lost his marbles, at least for a while.
But Amerika? Amerika elected a infantile bully for the highest office.
The Orange Grinch steals Christmas. And the GOP didn't think to give him some Legos to build his wall?
Gone is the humor in the White House.
Blame it on Amerika's Tucker Carlson's face...! Hit the road FOX and don't you come back no more...!
7
Here's hoping all you republicans have a miserable Christmas along with the Grinch in the White House.
Government employees are being used, and suffering, because of your ignorance and greed.
You have hitched your wagons to the dumbest man to ever sit in the Oval Office.
Useless and incompetent, the lot of you.
24
I'd like to see Senator Toomey tell any of his constituents who work for the federal government and are not getting a paycheck during the holidays that this is "much ado about little" or Representative Meadows tell his that they are not being paid due to a "rounding error". Members of Congress, of course, get paid during the shutdown even though it means they haven't been doing their jobs. Had they passed appropriations bills by October 1 (and the President signed them) we wouldn't be in this situation.
19
Tired of Benghazi Benghazi Benghazi? They are going to start playing another favorite tune Pelosi Pelosi Pelosi (remix) gop 2007. Let’s get out there and dance like there’s no tomorrow!
2
Perhaps they're shutting it down as a fundraiser for their buddies at the big banks. Mnuchin already made his calls to the fellas. From Mexico.
Hmmm...
5
And the emperor has no clothes
5
The press needs to investigate what PARTIAL shutdown means.
The mail is still being delivered. Flight controllers and TSA are still keeping airplanes flying. The military is still on the border waiting for the supposed caravan. Trump is still giving orders.
I suspect that shutdown is targeting government functions that Trump considers "liberal" or "Democrat", which is why Trump considers it a weapon against the Democrats who refused to pay for his stupid wall. If the shutdown meant that his White House security guards would be sent home, for example, he'd be a lot less eager to use it.
10
@Charlesbalpha ICE is kind of a weird department to call liberal, considering they're in the shut down
@Prede
I presume Trump was mad at them for some reason.
1
A rounding error? 800,000 working without pay, not knowing if it will be months before they see a paycheck - and this is all Republicans can say? How nice for them, sitting down to holiday dinners, off on happy vacations.
But then, it was probably the same back in the olden days....of slavery. Those owners just reaped the benefits of unpaid labor, knowing their....property...had no alternatives. Their holidays were merry, too, inside those mansions, visiting with friends, neighbors, oblivious to all except their own desires.
16
May the world look elsewhere for that light on the hill.
trump voters? Merry Christmas. I hope you spend this Holy week embracing the destruction you have created. Remember, personal responsibility, not Democrats, is the key for your success.
Where is our leadership when we need it?
Ah...Canada! Trudeau visited his troops yesterday in Mali.
What did trump do? I have no idea...but from reports he threw another tantrum.
You want smaller government? Enjoy the collateral damage that comes with it. America first?
19
The solution to avoid any futur shutdown could be that instead of dealing with President Trump, Democrats and Republicans on the Hill should be dealing with Fox & Friends, Ann Coulter, Lou Dobbs, Rush Limbaugh, Carlson Tucker and any other right wing pundits you could thing of. After all they look like they are already running the show.
22
It's actually quite simple.
This is a democracy. That mean that a president EXECUTES the bills that Congress passes, and that government funding bills by definition fund the implementation/execution of already passed and signed into law bills.
Apart from that, on any issue that the president believes a majority of the American people support, or that he personally wants against the demands of the American people (as is the case with the wall), he has the right to engage in negotiations with Congress.
Negotiating with Congress means (1) continuing to do you job as head of the Executive branch of government, and making sure that the government works smoothly when implementing existing bills, and (2) apart from that sitting down with members of Congress to see whether there is something you can give them in order to get what you want in return.
Trump NEVER sat down with Congress in order to get bipartisan comprehensive immigration reform done, and obviously that's the only framework in which a wall can even be debated.
Last spring, he actually turned down such a bill, even though it included FULL funding for his wall ($26 billion).
So of course, now that he and his idea of a wall massively lost the last elections, it's obvious that he won't get ANY compromise on this controversial issue through Congress during a lame duck session.
Shutting down part of the government and deciding to not pay TSA agent at Christmas Eve season won't and shouldn't change anything.
8
@3Rs
I think you are ignoring history. All of this started with gingrich, demonizing the "other side" rather than working together to find solutions. It went downhill from there.
6
It used to be simple. The Democrats crossed the line by passing the Affordable Care Act without any Republican support and by any available means possible (reconciliation after losing the super majority). That created precedent and it was, in my opinion, the beginning of the party line voting mode that we are in. Then Harry Reed (Democrat) eliminated the requirement for more than 60% of senate votes for confirmation of Federal Judges so the Democrats could confirm liberal judges along party line votes. Then Mitch McConnell (Republican) eliminated the same requirement for Supreme Court justices so they could push two conservative judges to the Supreme Court. I cannot see how we can go back to the old rules. But lately I see that the Democrats have been the first ones to break them for short term victories with terrible long term consequences. The US government moved slow by design and not by accident. Sure we can pretend we are more knowledgeable and morally superior than the founders of this nation, and that we can change the formula for the better and without any unintended consequences. Good luck to us on that. I come from a third world country where the laws change depending on who is in power to move their agendas forward. And that is one of the reasons why they continue to be a third world country.
5
@kdknyc
You are precisely correct. One should also note that the "Newt" was a result of the Nixon "Southern Strategy" to co-opt the "DixieCrats" into the failing Republican Party. We are all aware that Nixon "Dirty Tricks" set the mortal grounds that the Southern Republican Party now adheres to, and note that Mr. McConnell (Tennessee Southerner) is perfectly as willing to abuse power as both Gingrich espoused and Harry Reed actually did.
I find it interesting that the "wall" turned into "steel slats" a week ago, considering Trump's steel tariffs and interest for the American steel industry. "Follow the money" is always a good way to find reasons when the logic clashes with reality. So, the $5B - who will get most of them in the end?
9
Scott Perry (R-PA) , has been quoted in saying a government shutdown would not truly impact employees and scoffed at the idea that a federal worker would need their next paycheck to make ends meet.
Elizabeth Warren responded on Facebook:
"Who does the GOP think cleans, maintains, and guards federal buildings across the country? Thousands of janitors, cafeteria workers, security guards, and other employees who need every paycheck will be hurt by this completely avoidable disaster. I'm thinking of them this holiday season."
61
Governing for Trump is a reality show ratings game. He has little appearance of even knowing where or what may actually be most needed to secure America and American Borders. Where money might give the best results. What will prevent boats from moving a 100 yards past his wall. How many illegal immigrants will continue to pass right through the border in shipping as they do now.
6
Put this in perspective. The cost of the border wall that Trump is asking for ($5B) AND that the union that represents the border security agents who actually work the border says is needed, equals to .00000007% of annual Medicare spending. Medicare spends that amount in 10 hours. On any given day. And the border agents say a physical barrier wall is needed for them to effectively do their job.
And democrats say Trump is acting childish??
2
@DanielMarcMD
Are you sure you got the calculations there quite right?
2
@DanielMarcMD: Which border agents say they want a wall? My understanding is that most border agents, law enforcement officers, local and state governments along the border, and citizens specifically do not want a wall. They would much rather receive increased funding for personnel, equipment, cyber tools, and legal support for processing asylum requests.
Also, it must be stressed that the $5 billion Trump is demanding now is just a down payment for his wall. According to GOP lawmakers and Trump himself, Trump’s wall would will cost at least five times that amount. Furthermore, credible arguments can and have been made that his wall would cost significantly more than $25 billion.
Even if you go with $25 billion number, demanding “only” $5 billion now sounds less ridiculous than demanding the entire $25 billion up front. Trump is just using the lower number to get his foot in the door, but once the budget appropriations spigot is opened, it will be difficult to turn off. The expenses will keep rising, and we will continue throwing good money after bad.
3
Senator Toomey’s comment that the “shutdown is distracting from a strong economy” is ridiculous. Cheering a strong economy isn’t Congress’s job. Congress’s job is to legislate, and the House decided to abdicate that responsibility to give Trump political cover. If they’d just voted on the Senate’s bill, it would have passed and Trump would have been in the position of either punting on his Wall fantasy or shouldering the responsibility for the shutdown he claimed he’d take earlier.
Seriously, Toomey’s comment amounts to “how dare anyone blame us for not doing our job.”
57
Adios Corker. Too bad you didn’t put your vote where your mouth is!
51
Let’s look at the history of democrats and govenment shut downs:
We had one earlier this year which ended after a symbolic couple days over the weekend when things were mostly closed anyway, the Republicans got everything they wanted in regards to DACa.
Then in 2013 the govenrment shut down because the Republican hypocrites demanded massive cuts to programs, a couple days later no drama Obama reopened the govenment with massive cuts to sovial programs.
Then of course Newt Gingrich famously shut the government down on Bill Clinton. This shut down actually lasted a couple days, but in the end Newt got what he wanted.
So who are we kidding. The well touted spineless negotianting skills of Chuck and Nancy are sure to bring us a wall.
10
Somehow I don't think the GOP loosing control of the House was what Newt wanted. He pretty much lost his career over that move. It also most likely helped Clinton win re-election.
As for the 2013 shutdown, much of which was over defunding the ACA, public opinion in favor of the healthcare law actually went up and dissatisfaction with hard line Republicans also increased.
I don't see either of these shutdowns as wins for the GOP.
9
@Dundeemundee
Obviously, you can't call yourself a "Democrat" and then accept the idea that if a president can't negotiate with Congress and obtain a compromise bill, OR if a minority can't get the majority to accept a compromise bill, then it's perfectly legitimate for the Executive branch or minority party to no longer pay government employees and contractors until what a minority wants is nevertheless signed into law.
That's NOT how a democracy works.
If politicians would start to accept this idea, then democracy would literally be over, and we'd have a dictatorship, as it wouldn't matter anymore who "we the people" elect as majority party in Congress, it would be the single politician deciding to sabotage the US who could then impose no matter what he personally wanted to see signed into law.
So we should be EXTREMELY GRATEFUL for the fact that Chuck and Nancy stick to basic ethical rules, especially when confronted with massive corruption and incompetence, because there IS not other path to a better future.
The day part of the progressives in this country start to understand that there is no silver bullet and that all real, radical, lasting, non-violent, democratic progress is step by step progress, no Trump will ever have any power in DC anymore.
Oh and by the way, Cruz's shutdown was about repealing the ACA, and it failed. In 2013, "we the people" gave Congress to the GOP, so of course they got their massive cuts signed into law, that IS democracy, remember?
6
@Dundeemundee
I fear you are right about Chuck Schumer. He has given into Republicans any number of times these past two years. He is weak and ineffective. Not a bold or compelling leader. Why hasn't there been a push from Senate Democrats to ask for Schumer's resignation? Certainly, he is not well-respected by the majority of Democrats?
1
Senator McConnell, I'll be pulling for the House Democrats to investigate this corrupt and incompetent POTUS. Trump is surrounding himself with sycophants who will not save him from himself.
All I want for Christmas is impeachment.
82
We also need to look into McConnell; he's enabling the fool Trump. Why?
59
@Doremus Jessup While looking into Mitch's machinations it will not be surprising to find issue with the actions of his spouse Elaine Chao.
Funny the many ways Trump/GOP resembles an old time crime family.
28
The book House of Trump House of Putin by Craig Unger reports that McConnell has been steadily receiving Kremlin money the day Trump got the Republican nomination.
There is an appendix at the end of the book that lists verifiable published sources that you may independently check out.
4
Perhaps Mr. Trump brought up "the wall" to fund raise from his base. What better way to galvanize and solicit funds than to tantalize them with anti Democrat rhetoric! Washington shrugs...they have heard this all before. Meanwhile, workers go without paychecks while Trump rakes it in. Just saying.
28
The administration hasn’t even spent a fraction of last year’s allocation of 1.6 billion for border security. They don’t need more money now when they haven’t even used last year’s allocation. It would be one thing if they used that money to put more resources on the border to expedite the processing of refugees, but this administration is more inclined to use any money to lock more children in cages and deport their parents. Trump is all about inflicting harm and pain wherever he can. Trump’s wall or better Trump’s Folly is just a prop for his ego. He’ll probably demand to have his name spelled out in gold on it like he brands his odious buildings.
As our population shrinks due to our low birth rate we are going to wish we had more immigrants. Especially these hard working families south of our border. But our once great country is becoming a mean and undesirable country. The rest of the world is going to move on without us as we continue to shut ourselves off from all that is decent and from the values that made our country a beacon of light to be admired by the rest of the world.
70
My family went to see the National Christmas Tree in DC last night. Dark, shutdown, fenced off, lights out. A clear symbol of the disfunction we are exhibiting around the world, not least of which is the behavior of our juvenile president Trump. One security guard on duty said “they” were looking for a private donor to provide funding to light the nation’s tree again. So this is where we are now; Uncle Sam panhandling on a DC street corner for couch change to run the country.
127
And yet an additional $50b to the Pentagon, no questions asked.
10
@Mike Jones
It's just a tree. I hope you and your family were not irreversibly traumatized by the absence of this high-priority government function.
@Ed L.
Hi, Ed - not at all, it is just a symbol of what is really traumatizing - the Trump administration and congressional republicans. Happy holidays!
12
My family and I went to see the National Christmas Tree in DC last night. Dark, fenced off, lights out, trash everywhere. A clear symbol of our national disfunction, including our juvenile, tantrum-throwing president Trump. One security guard there said “they” were looking for a private donor who could provide funding to pay for lighting the tree again. So this is where we are now; Uncle Sam panhandling on a street corner in DC for couch chage to run the country.
4
I remember a popular slogan during the Vietnam War: "What if we held a war and nobody came?" Fast-forward to 2018: What if we held a shutdown and nobody cared? Doesn't "non-essential" mean just that? Maybe this is a golden opportunity for Americans to scrutinize their bloated federal government and contemplate trimming some of that accumulated fat. But that would require a true Christmas miracle.
5
@Ed L. It's not like it's going to save US money, Ed. That money wlll go to shore up the big banks, not the average American citizen. It's not unlike Dubya's parting acts to make sure the banks had plenty of our cash before he left office.
5
Yes, those janitors who clean up after the pigs passing as lawmakers, they are part of the "fat" being trimmed. Most civil servants are paid less than those with the same job in the private sector. In contrast, these lawmakers will still get paid, even when they announce they won't come back to town to do their jobs and vote!
9
@Ed L.
No, the Pentagon is the bloat. They have embezzled $21 TRILLION, that's trillion with a t worth of money they cannot account for.
Unfortunately, the Pentagon's bloat is fully funded because no one has the courage to say no to more bombs and unnecessary wars.
14
Seriously, how does anyone negotiate with someone who does not keep their word?
This was known about Trump long before November, 2016, but now it seems even Republicans are starting to see this as a problem.
I am still seeing the only solution as negotiations in Congress with the objective of a veto-proof majority.
108
@Steve
I think it is even worse than that, I think Trump is not even aware that he does not keep his word. In his one-dimensional world decisions, promises and agreements don't stack in a way that connects cause to consequence.
11
It’ll happen when the Oligarchs behind the GOP decide it’s time. But an override means the end of Trump, so they’ll have to weigh that in.