Gag me with an organic, pasture-raised, 100% hemp, artisanal spoon.
88
A friend just left for Nebraska. Ithaca was encroaching.
18
Moved from Hell’s Kitchen and to Philly and do commute to NYC 3x a week.
People are so much nicer and food / art scene is comparable to Brooklyn.
No need to milk cows and get tired of same coffee.
16
This article makes me smile: I was born & raised in the Upper Hudson River Valley: Saratoga County to be exact. It was a bucolic place to grow up. I'm glad it is being re discovered.
10
The NYT publishes the exact same article every few months and never, ever comments on the fact that ALL of the informants in these stories are WHITE people feeling comfortable moving into extremely WHITE communities. These are stories about liberal white flight, not being priced out or whatever else the writer thinks.
86
For the love of God people, move somewhere because you love it there, not because your rerecreating the place you left for others who really don't want that but are just being nice about it. And if a coffee shop and brewery are high on a our list of must haves, please stay in Brooklyn.
32
Lovely article but to us that live in the Western part of the state, Ulster, Dutchess, Westchester and Rockland are considered downstate not upstate. Housing is even more affordable here and we have several of natures great bounties, the Finger Lakes, Niagara Fall and the Grand Canyon of the east, Letchworth State Park here in our backyard. It would be nice to see articles on the cities of what is truly upstate, Syracuse, Rochester and Buffalo besides just on the amount of snow we get every winter.
42
As soon as I saw that I could take classes Upstate in “love letter writing” I put my Brooklyn apartment on the market.
66
If there is a mss movement of urban professionals to the country, particularly into red states, that has so many benefits. One, it frees up the better jobs for younger folks who need them. Two, it will increase the available supply of housing, reducing rents and moderating skyrocketing property values. Three, the transplants will provide an immediate boost to local economies that are sometimes depressed and provide good jobs and long term stability as moneyed entrepreneurs start businesses. Last, and certainly not least, the movement and influence of educated families will sway elections for the better. It's win-win for the nation. The worst thing that can happen to this country is for the educated to concentrate in large numbers in just a few states. That's how we got Donald Trump and a GOP Congress.
26
I was born and raised in Ulster county and live full-time here nowadays after living in NYC for a decade. It really is beautiful living here and I love being back -- especially now that we have a new congressman. However...
How exactly are these people paying their bills?? One couple has a $500K property with a husband who illustrates books for children and the wife works as a freelance writer. Uh-huh. And they live off of the trust-fund, I presume?
Look, it's absolutely beautiful up here and a great place to raise kids. But there are no jobs. No "real" jobs, I mean. Yes, if you want to work at Walmart or McD's, then there is plenty of work but that's about it, unfortunately. If you are able to do the commute down to the city, then great but that's your only real option to bring in a decent salary.
By the way, I'm going to check out the bookstore/wine bar in Kingston! I'm glad to see something like that in uptown.
51
Amused how the hackles rise about this topic. Raised in old working class Brooklyn (NO hipsters in sight in the entire borough), college and regular visits into Manhattan, finished college in the back country of New Paltz NY. Lived and worked in this college town for 20 years. Moved to Columbia County and live here for 26 years. The reality, the region north of that metropolis has always been a magnet. Generation after generation. Hence, the Borscht Belt, Mohonk Mountain House (the rest burnt) and pockets of wealth developed. Successive waves. It's 2018, the trickle of the past has become a stream. Increase due to a mix of influences. I'll even claim that people like me, tapped the flow 40 years ago. Artsy types have always made a home in the valley. Woodstock, Thomas Cole … what's new is safety post 9/11, frazzled downstaters- more frazzled, city generated funds and ever greater numbers of like-minded folks up here for social support.
Amenities have skyrocketed. State of the art hospital rising. Expanded medical offices. Food choices in every little town. Shopping choices of every description. What you can't find locally, order it.
Culture galore! Fisher Center, Vassar, private galleries just to start. Real bookstores. Restaurants. Still bored, Hudson.
I'd advise, if you're thinking of full time, become resourceful. Let the wildlife know you're around. It can be a challenge at times, but, you'll be healthier connecting with nature and yourself.
8
How is any of this new .. unusual. People have been trying to find alternatives to city life .. well? I think ...forever.
Maybe it's youth .. where those interviewed need to make an excuse (to whom?) about why they need something different than what the city can give them. Cities are stressful and tiresome -- people are annoying .. more people = more annoying.
Rather than coming off as grateful, most times the partial transplants sound, and are - patronizing ...out of touch. These individuals are fortunate -- in so many ways -- and don't appreciate.
My parents maintained two residences for 60 years -- my mother never wanting to live in the city with a family ... my father needing to be in the city to run his business. I have been very fortunate -- I can tell you .... not surprising to anybody -- having both is better. Frankly -- if I had to chose one .. it would be my place in Bucks County. The city would be too much 24/7 ....
7
Wow! So many derogatory comments toward these people. Bitter is not a pretty look, no matter who wears it.
17
This article was very enjoyable. NYT had another article a few days ago about the slow death of many small towns and that they need an influx of new people. So here we have an example of new people moving to small towns, making a bit of economic contribution.
So why all the snarky comments here?
16
There are some fantastic second homes at hard to believe prices in Southern Vermont. Check out Grafton, Vermont. A picture-perfect New England village.
5
Upstate NY is still NYC. Having lived in the Catskills for several years, the large percentage of the population that migrate upstate, still yearning for the city, simply never acclimate. Most of these migrants look at upstate as a way to obtain a larger, and more inconvenient, apartment. And you are still in NY, with taxes, Cuomo, and all the “great” things that make the Empire State.
7
I do hope love-letter writing is making a comeback.
27
People don’t have to travel two hours north of the city to find a rural setting. Pound Ridge, NY, located in Westchester County near the Stamford, Ct. border, is an hour’s drive from the city. Pound Ridge has a very rural, small-town feel. It is a friendly town of around 4500 people, many of whom live on 4-5 wooded acres. Housing prices are not as bad as the Rivertowns and one can buy a 4 bedroom, 3600 sq. Ft. home for less than a one bedroom apartment in Manhattan. And no, I am not a realtor. Just a very happy 20 year resident of the best kept secret outside of the city!
12
My wife and I have been three hours from the GWB for nearly 40 years and we wouldn't change our quality of life for anything.
We live on 30+ acres in a home we had built to our liking by local expert craftsmen and have raised a very smart attorney from a school system which had two 1600 SATs upper -classmen during her tenure (one of whom served as her summer tutor).
We visit Manhattan at our leisure and have consumed the international flavors of Europe and Asia with an easy ride to Albany or Newark airports (though Stewart Airport has recently gotten our attention, as well) and enjoy on a daily basis the solitude and beauty of an area of New York that Thomas Cole and Frederick Church would still marvel at.
9
Soo — What is upstate? Catskills are really very far down state for those of us much further north. Very interesting at several levels. What it is like for most upstaters to subsist?
5
Ask 10 different people what their definition of upstate is and you’ll get 50 different answers
Unless you are a self employed professional,work for the post office or have a state job at a college or prison you’ll probably be employed by Walmart
12
@jnsail
A friend from TX asked that same question, to which another friend replied, "Anything north of the five boroughs."
Not geographically accurate, but funny -- and pretty accurate nonetheless.
8
I left Kingston when I graduated from KHS in the 80s and never returned. It was an idyllic place to grow up, but when IBM left in the late 80s the area fell on hard times, and there were few opportunities. I don’t care where they come from, just so glad to see people are recognizing the natural beauty of the area, and the great community feel of the the small towns and cities.
14
I moved from the Bowery to central Dutchess County over 24 years ago. I had separation anxiety at first, but after a couple of years found myself deep in my flower garden and loving my life in the country, even in the winter. I think how unhealthy all the concrete and overcrowded the city is. There is a tremendous cultural life here. If I need my city art fix I just jump in my car and in an hour and half I am in the city, but I always feel relief when I arrive home and breathe in the clean air. Yes, our taxes are high and I have the electric and oil bills, but they have to be paid no matter where you live. My 2 sons went through our local schools from K-12 and did exceptionally well in college, both are now in competitive graduate programs. I don't regret my decision for a second.
15
Aside from the ultra-Orthodox enclaves (and the occasional Chabad) are there any synagogues in these places (preferably Conservative)? I remember that besides the Borscht Belt, most of these towns ranged from ignoring to openly antisemitic?
4
@vacciniumovatum . Poughkeepsie has a conservative synagogue that draws people from all around the area. There is a large, active Jewish community in Dutchess County. There may be some remnants of the older generations of intolerance, but those are dying off.
5
There’s lots of ultra orthodox enclaves in rockland and orange counties but that’s not really upstate
Most of the borscht belt is in the history books
@vacciniumovatum without thinking about it too hard, Kingston, Catskill, Hudson, Poughkeepsie, Beacon, Amenia come to mind. Others I'm missing?
There's new Chabads. Anti -Semitism is no more prevalent here than anywhere nation wide.
1
There’s no mention of the tens of thousands of New Yorkers who end up in eastern Pennsylvania, totally turning the culture of the area upside down, not to mention helping to skyrocket the property values and tax burdens to the point local people are having trouble keeping their homes. There is precious little assimilation as well.
17
You hit the nail on the head
All that is happening because the newcomers won’t adapt to the area
They want “ park slope west”
10
I sold my coop about six months ago after being in Manhattan for nearly 30 years (with a three year side trip to Georgia). For reasons that are unique to coops and not either interesting or important, I decided to bunk with my sibling in northern Westchester....a few miles from where I was born and raised. I only planned to stay a month or two....but six months later, I still haven't started to look for a place back in the City...and I find myself thinking more about staying "out in the woods" before venturing back. I go into the City a couple of times a week and now I make plans to do those things that I never really got around to doing while I was living there. If my work required a daily commute in addition to long hours, I might move back more quickly....but for now, this is pretty good.....I guess there is no place like home.
6
Random thoughts
We bought 12 acres in Northeast Dutchess County in 1981; weekending
for decades. After a recent 15 year stint on an island in Brazil have returned to the simple country life just west of Hotchkiss for the past 4 years. (Still maintain our Gramercy Park place for emergencies.)
Pros:
no noisy neighbors, no sirens, firetrucks, busses, honking horns.
No micro plastics in our well water.. ( for now).
Learned how to make plumbing and minor electrical work and do our own construction and painting.
Feed feral cats twice a day for 4 years, (still do not trust us and never petted. )
Cons:
Sometimes the Winter storms are so fierce it feels like Siberia.
No Equinox, or Crunch, or Reebok gyms; found a nice Gold's Gym some 50 minutes away, which is a lovely drive most days.
Life goes by slowly, patiently, mostly calmly...can identify around 200 kinds of birds, not so many plants, tho. Lots of wild animals up here, Cute Black Bear we named "Leslie" and her cub. Her boyfriend, who walks anywhere he wants ( with a limp) is the size of a HUMMER.
Coyotes and mountain lions howl at night...we watch foxes run in the woods. We host a gathering of Wild Turkeys almost every day at our feeding station, not to mention raccoons, possum, beaver, white tailed hawks screaming in the day swooping in the woods at fantastic speeds looking for lunch.
No I guess we do not really miss city life anymore...and the view from my bed is 50 miles west...overlooking the Hudson River...
15
Several points:
1. Why doesn't the author of this article talk to the author(Eduardo Porter) of the NYT opinion piece entitled: "The Hard Truths of Trying to ‘Save’ the Rural Economy"? That would be interesting...
2. It is noticable that pretty much all of the people in this article rely on income earned initially in the city. Many country people would love to renovate homes and inns or start businesses, but lack the startup capital, because on average, jobs in rural areas pay a lot less.
3. As someone who grew up in rural Maine and later lived in Manhattan and many foreign countries, I can see both sides of the "people like us" comment. I never felt "country till I die." The twang and glorification of people going nowhere still bother me, though I do appreciate country music more now. There are many other areas - acceptance of LBTQ+, foreigners with their quirks, being artistic, etc. that separated me from the redneck crowd I grew up with. But on the other side, I do know and respect those people, so denigration of "townies" and (in NYC) "tourists" has always rankled me as well. Give them the benefit of the doubt, and understand they probably just meant that they imagined they wouldn't fit in, but happily found that they did.
4. Every place has it's benefits!
20
I love Atlanta! You can be super close to the city & still have access to walking trails, creeks, etc. Mild winters. I couldn’t imagine the bitter cold winters of upstate NY.
4
I’ve lived in Atlanta... sorry but too hot and stifling for me. More so if you’re a minority.
4
I have lived in NYC, Brooklyn, Astoria as well as NJ and CT. I LOVE New Rochelle. We have city, country, culture, diversity, history, beaches, parks and access to NYC just about every 20 minutes via Metro North or a 20-30 minute easy trip by car.
I have never lived far from NYC. I thought I was too cool to say I loved the suburbs, having grown up in Teaneck, NJ. But New Ro has it all.
I never even look at the train schedule because there is always a train in a few minutes.
The taxes are high, granted. And Trump’s tax changes have really hurt us. But I am hoping that will be fixed after 2020.
New Rochelle will have train service to Penn Station in 2021. They are building more apartment buildings here than I would like, but the goal is to make New Ro a sustainable, walkable city.
I wish new life for the upstate towns. They are a lovely day trip for us actually. But suburban New Ro has my heart.
10
Tried it (twice). Wasn't 4 me. Moved to Philly.
12
Fill up every nook and cranny. Soon all it will be, is people. Ruff
7
Nice piece to read on a weekend. The optics in this piece portray a fantasy countryside. I raised my family in Tewksbury NJ. Beautiful. Horse country. Of course, country. But home ownership come lots of unexpected mishaps in the water pipes, septic and leach bed systems, ground water pumps, sump pumps, ground electrical wires, gas pipes and upkeep of the in ground pool. On the nature side, deer poop all over the backyards, invasion of deer ticks during the warm weather, creature carcass on the back porch the night before, snakes happily swimming in the pool or lurking or slithering in the basement, the garbage bin put out the night before turned over its contents strewn on the road by the uninvited bear. Having a garden? Build at least a six foot fence around it otherwise deer will have a feast. Deer is not the Bambi on TV or children's book. Also, do not expect Home Advisor or Angie's List come to your rescue ASAP. The township has an excellent public schools though.
18
I spent five years living in upstate New York. These people are in for a rude awakening.
I understand the wood heated cottage, small business, work from home appeal. However, I doubt many of these rural neophytes understand just how much work comes with a 5 acre plot off a dirt side road. Many people don't realize just how big a luxury municipal plumbing can be. Septic tanks always seem to overflow at the worst possible moments. That's before your pipes start freezing. Your heat will fail you eventually. You better inspect the water quality as well. Legacy manufacturing often causes high lead content even in well water.
These are only a few of the fun adventures you're about to embark upon as well. I had an entire chicken coop cleared out by one big nasty raccoon. The over-sized marmot almost got the house cat as well. There was no one to call even if you wanted help. We finally had to sit outside one night with a crossbow before the beast finally learned its lesson. That's only one variety of invasive species as well.
I wouldn't consider the school system a blessing either. Outcomes vary but no choice isn't necessarily a good choice. There is definitely a very strange social element running through the upstate education system. I highly doubt Brooklynites understand what I mean either. I've lived down state too. Not the same thing.
I can almost guarantee most of these properties are Airbnb sites in waiting. These people don't know what they're doing.
40
Exactly! Maybe they’ll do ok. But they will be in for some kind of an awakening for sure.
Grew up in rural New England. ALL these things (and yes, there are more) I launch into explaining whenever my husband mentions wanting to move to the country. He’s from a suburb, he has no idea what it’s like. The nice parts are rewarding, but it’s a full time job and the trade offs are more significant than many can imagine.
14
I heartily recommend moving to Nuumi, ZN to realize sophisticated, yet very low cost housing, foods, recreation, taxes and much more. About 1/10th. the cost of living than any plsce else. Safe, steady government, honest politicians and a well equipped security system round out the greatness that is Nuumi, ZN.
2
I, in Lansing, MI, am so far removed from any of these people it almost makes them (me?) seem like aliens.
Considering the clothes, I'm leaning heavily on them...
9
I fantasize about moving up to the Hudson Valley and getting away from the noise, the crowds and the pollution of a city. Yes, I know it’s more expensive than where I now live. But I’m at a place in life where I’m willing to pay for peace and quiet. I know living in the country can be isolating. But even in a city of over 1 million, I’m often alone. Everyone is too busy with appointments or meetings or shuttling their over-scheduled kids around. I’m also weary of watching people cut down 50-year-old trees to get better satellite TV reception, or seeing parks sold off and paved over for yet another shopping center. I appreciate the energy of a city, but nature feeds my soul.
20
Yeah, I know what you mean. I love living here surrounded by Redwood trees, although someone had to cut down on the ones where my house is sitting but that was back in 1947 according to the date someone scratched into the cement foundation on the kerosene fuel bunker (I’m going to convert into a laundry room: washer dryer wide… That’s it); Although someone did do a major remodel on the place making it a modern looking home with RE-STORE windows, doors & track-like lighting to Make it a solid place ALMOST not far enough away from Santa Cruz Calif. aka mountains, more like ‘hills’ (I say out here but not in the country I’m not on a mountain side like some recluses I’ve seen)
So every time I see a new development I say “oh no there goes the country (neighborhood)
2
@TexasTabby
I lived in Dallas years ago and loved it (Lower Greenville, not the surrounding sprawl)... but now I'm in upstate NY and it's wonderful. Smart, committed, socially-engaged people -- both city expats and locals. I've been welcomed and have made friends with lots of neighbors as well as weekenders and transplants. High taxes are the downside. Friends who live in town are able to walk to take care of everyday needs. No need to be isolated if you choose the right town.
2
try buying health insurance in upstate ny. The choices are appalling. Yes it's beautiful, but wake up! You are in rural america now and that means less services, lots of car maintenance and a much worse health care system than what you can find in or around a big city. YOu better. hope you don't get sick
24
Living in the ‘City at the Center of the World’ is a thrill like no other, but the cost for NYC housing means that for far too many, the only NYC Life is a Work Life. Unless one is wealthy, rent-controlled, or a Googlekind, most everyone is working themselves to death simply to afford a NYC address.
I lived in Chelsea in one of the most revered buildings near the High Line--loved it, but with little left over from work/rent to enjoy Broadway or Lincoln Center, life in Manhattan became more myth than reality.
I left 3 years ago to buy an 1860 house overlooking the Hudson River in a small hamlet just north of Beacon. For a monthly payout 1/3 of what it cost in Chelsea, what I found was a restored, 19th Century river town, a 3 minute walk to the train to Grand Central, a boat yard where I could keep my wood boat, a position as church organist just down the hill, a thriving yacht club, elegant neighbors in the diplomatic service and trade/professionals of all types, dinner parties instead of “meet me at Starbucks”, food stores better than Wholefoods and for half the price, and Democrats/NY Indivisible that are making real change locally. Since I can work remote, I go to Manhattan at least once a week to enjoy it in ways I could not afford when living there.
In other words, you don’t have to move to the country or the Burbs to have a life that combines the best of NYC and a beautiful world less harried and financially pressured. The answer is nearer than you may realize.
187
@Dan Fannon
"Unless one is wealthy, rent-controlled, or a Googlekind,"
Get out of Chelsea much? There are a few more than 3 stereo-types in 9,000,000 strong NYC. I'm not saying you would like us or the areas we live- (elegant yacht club diplomats?)
Devil's in the "since I can work remote". Not everything is driven by choice-
30
@Dan Fannon I'm sure you will get a lot of negative comments for your upbeat words but I love your attitude.
26
@Dan Fannon
While I live north of you, quality of life on the whole is better and I still get to New York at least once a week, sometimes twice. Good food, great neighbors and a lively cultural scene.
Congratulations on making the move!
21
I don’t mean to be a jerk, but this piece was pretty nauseating. These folks don’t represent me or many of us. This dichotomy, of those who have enough money to buy a SECOND home, or buy homes this expensive, or get to just pick up and leave because they want.... versus so many of us: student debt, medical debt, living wherever we can get a dang job, living in the “country” cuz that’s where we were born....is part of the reason we are divided. This isn’t realistic for a lot of us. These wealthy super liberal city folk are fine and cool and I’m sure I could have an IPA with them and talk about Factory Farms and our carbon footprint, but they are a different caliber. And they have no idea they’re a different caliber. And thus the divide. This piece was just,uggggghhhh.
79
@Range Life don't worry. in a few years these hipster 30-somethings that seem cool right now will just be middle-aged folks living in the middle of nowhere, like everyone else.
25
try Wolcott,n.y. on the edge of lake ontario…….hour from Syracuse and Rochester......you have to make your own latte....but super affordable...peaceful.....
4
The grass is always greener. Here in the Hudson valley we are taxed to death. Most towns, villages and hamlets do not have municipal services like: water, gas, garbage collection. Schools? There are NO top tier schools here at all. Not one. In September you get a massive school tax bill and in January you get a County tax bill. The roads are shot. Public transportation in almost non existent. I live one hour from the GW bridge in a 4,000 sq ft home on three acres. We have well water (which we don’t drink), a septic system that needs to be cleaned every couple of years. We are moving back to Brooklyn as there is no life here. No culture. No residents that go to school board meetings or town meetings. Just a lot of nothing. But, we do have some fresh air.
291
Yes. Thanks for mentioning the tax issue. Most think that taxes are just a problem in the commute worthy burbs close to the city, but they can be just as bad further north in NY on "five peaceful acres". And, as you mention, the feeling of "what do I get" for that tax bill is much more acute up there. At least the schools are nationally ranked in Westchester.
This search for nirvana in the woods is an old story. I've read about it for decades now, and as an upstate resident for a few years, was able to listen to the disdain from locals who had to endure the yuppies in their midst. Now many of the original migrants from the eighties and ninties have been forced off their "cheap" 10 acre plots with a very old home they thought was quaint, because now they can't afford the taxes or upkeep. Don't be tempted by that "$310,000 1890's Victorian", people. The first thing a lot of locals told me when I lived there is never buy such a money pit. Never. Good luck with that.
110
I came back to NYC in 2006 for the same reasons.
37
The big problem-and not just in the Hudson valley- is that city people more often than not bring the city with them leaving the locals angry and resentful
How can you be “ taxed to death” if you are getting no municipal services? Where is all this $$ going?
46
Clinton Corners....mostly Democrats...thankfully
3
Ms. deVries also teaches bead-making and love-letter writing there.
Just cleaned the coffee off my screen.
119
Does the NYT real estate section ever write about anyone other than affluent, white Brooklynites living their best lives? I’m beyond sick of these types of articles. Why the preoccupation?
133
It’s all fun & games until you need emergency health care. I’m sticking around the peripheral vision of a big city myself. Who wants to be stuck in the boonies past age 50 with a potentially big health issue? Do you want to be shipped in an ambulance with an heart attack for over an hour or more?
It’s great to live where you can see the stars. It’s even more fun to have access to great health care ASAP when you need it.
151
@Female We have wonderful cardiac care here at Vassar Brothers Hospital in Poughkeepsie. Northern Dutchess Hospital does orthopedic surgery that is second only to the Hospital for Special Surgery in NYC. Moreover, the slower pace makes the care here BETTER than in the Big, Busy Apple. We have many urgent care centers that also offer very fine care for emergencies. It is BETTER up here than in the big City---- People needing extreme trauma care are quickly transported to Westchester. Helen Hayes Rehabilitation north of Nyack is one of the best therapy centers in the world.
You really should check out the facts before you make such incorrect posts-----
49
Caroline P: my comment was a generality & not geared toward your rural area which apparently is Cleveland Clinic/Mayo/Henry Ford rolled into one. Amazingly, your town is not the center of the world. There are plenty of rural areas without adequate health care.
35
@Female
@Caroline P was discussing health care in the rural area which is the subject of this article, which was a perfectly valid response. There is no cause to be rude to her in return.
49
"One could say the same for many of the rural hamlets, lush valleys and charming Main Streets of upstate New York: They’re changing, thanks to a wave of city folks moving in. "
Listen, I like the city. I like where I live...in a city. BUT to open up an "article" by claiming that an area is changed for the better "thanks...to...city folks moving in." What?!
It would also be well advised to limit the coverage of fleeing NYers and Brooklyn-ites, to relevant profiles. In the name of "authenticity," it isn't actually necessary to include cliches. Or at least give us due warning, so we don't immediately discount the other relevant profiles. Triggers: Waldorf school, healing, energy, spiritual, (insert anything banal here) + add the word "journey"
To all of the folks now looking wearily at a-frame toting urban transplants, please be assured that we are not all this "authentic." We don't sling our hobbies (sound-healing and love-letter writing workshops) as helpful to the rural economy and replace our clothes with afghans. We won't force you listen to how we "make it work" by sending our kids to Waldorf schools...and other expensive exercises in "un-learning", or however we are now mindfully curating our latest "journeys" in naval-gazing, while entitled.
That profile made me cringe and made the article much less credible. I think it's unfortunate that I can't remember the interesting people profiled but am instead still fuming that this triggering trend got coverage.
344
@Anne
Hear, hear! Let me just add one word to your trigger list: "kombucha"!
97
@Bonnie Don't forget yoga.
32
@Anne
I think its a nice option that if you live outside the city you might still have access to a nice professional career via telecommuting and exposure to some interesting cultural things like yoga and professional artists. What's not to like?
11
Nothing is new under the sun, and so much of this sounds like a movie Nancy Meyers had something to do with. I mean, Diane Keaton moved to Vermont to make baby food in Nineteen Eighty-Seven! Then Meryl Streep, in "It's Complicated", is a caterer living in a sumptuous house in a gorgeous setting that no caterer could possibly afford.
What do these fictitious characters have in common with the transplants in this story? I'll leave that to you - as my mother used to say, "Two guesses, first one doesn't count".
16
This almost seems like an Onion article, or a bad screenplay for a 'couples relocate to the country and discover they need more than one ax' romcom. Give us an update in 5 years when the local Ulster County government is pushing back with both hands by passing zoning restrictions and commercial regulations to combat gentrification and invasion of the Park Slopers.
37
Bought small cottage on Southern Maine coast on 6 acres in 1994 for under 100k. Kept as vacation home until retirement now spend more and more time there. Positives:Involved in the community, good friends, more diversity better restaurants ocean nature etc Negatives: upkeep,frozen pipes replace boiler, new septic,(14k) plowing 500 yr.higher taxes etc
All this city money results in newcomers knocking down cottages and building McMansions on our beautiful coast,= work for local contractors but many locals priced out of housing market = resentment. I was a New Englander by birth so we kept our house small and understood the values of the locals, many of the newcomers do not!
BTW this move in my generation was called the “back to the land movement “
28
That's why people like to live on Metro North near New Haven, lots of space, good broadband/wifi/cell, and a mellow vibe unless you are stuck on I-95. Some people don't mind the I-95 ride with the hands free auto braking cars that work pretty good at 20mph on the highway... Not to mention lots of food stores that don't rip you off.
5
Watch out Saugerties! The artisans pickles are coming!
26
Yes, if you are a millionaire, you can go anywhere and make a nice home. There are so many other people living in rural areas, that have for years. In the mountains of a remote area of New Mexico, the most interesting people lived there. In upstate NY Artists, Permaculture farmers, garlic farmers and other transplants have made wonderful, incredible, ecological and aesthetic lives. Are the weatlhy NYC transplants the only ones that get stories in the Times? Can we look at people that are not in the top percentage of income earners and see how they live?
61
It's comical how many commenters are concerned with how their potential future neighbors vote, especially in presidential elections, where the Electoral College makes all New Yorkers votes basically meaningless.
3
Not in the midterms! NYers in the 19th congressional district voted out John Faso.
All elections matter.
10
Interesting article, and even more interesting comments.
Ok, my story. Brought up in Oklahoma City suburbs. Left day after I graduated from h.s. Left and returned for several years. To CA, TX, CO, AK finally to CO. Lived in downtown Denver after living in a tent in AK, gutting fish for a summer (well, 2). Then, eventually got to the foothills west of Golden for 28 years. Yes, had to drive a bit, snowstorms locked us down a couple days a year. But, beautiful, and mostly serene. Could not convince people there that dogs are not part of nature...
But, then retired and wife wanted to be closer to her ailing mother. So moved to the Eastern Shore of Md. Had never even heard of it. Yes, its Trump country. But a huge Colonial house that cost a 1/3 of what we sold our 2 mountain cabins for in CO. We are in town now, 3 minutes to Walmart, etc. Town is only 3500 people. So far, so good. Nothing is 100%, but mostly like it here.
Not sure what I would tell people about moving out of a city. Even in Denver, I could not take the claustraphobic feel of so many people (many homeless). I opted to be 20 minutes away from arts, etc. To enjoy that a couple times a month was not worth living 24 hours a day with dirty concrete all around. And this was Denver which has parks and is mostly nice....oh well, must stop rambling....
8
A few people moving out to wastelands of Trumplandia does not make a trend.
Actually the census shows people are moving out of Trumplandia and into the cities where the good jobs and food reside....
Millennials don't even want to buy a house, much-less, one in the sticks.
Is that a $10,000 stove in the back ground???? Just rich people playing.
40
Rural is charming if you have high speed internet, natural gas, sewer and water. If you have oil, septic and a well...not so much. The winters are just too long to live like the Ingalls on the prairie.
36
The Real Estate section publishes a variation of this story pretty regularly. Young-ish "creatives" move out of the city and then try to recreate the city they left in rural areas. The next time the Times decides to publish one of these back-to-the-earth articles, it would be worthwhile for the writer to take a look at the articles that have already been published on the same theme in the Times archives, so the article doesn't descent into parody, as this one does.
Often these families move to the country for the sake of exposing their children to nature, although it might be better in the long run to raise children in a place where they'll learn to co-exist with and respect many different kinds of people. Once they're teenagers, they'll be bored in the country and want to go into the city, the place their parents were so happy to leave, by themselves.
32
@msd
Agreed -- except they are no longer from Manhattan. I'm old enough to remember reading about those leaving "the city" ... "THE" ..being Manhattan and those people were moving to ..where .. Brooklyn?! Why ..how .. !
The real money in NYC always had second homes .. and third ... and boats. That's why they loved the city -- it was all on personal terms.
4
Ya know up in Woodstock and Phoenicia, I hear the weekenders and transplants are referred to as “citiots.”
26
Great but you’re not in NYC anymore
5
Sing it: “Green acres is the place to be! Farm livin’ is the life for me!”
12
Gotta love New Yorkers..."Hey, it turns out there is this 'nature' stuff all over the place out here!"
175
I am always mystified by the fixation with upstate N.Y. As an artist couple we are very happy with our situation in Milford, Pa. This very cute town with many amenities is less than 75 miles from Manhattan. An off peak commute can take as little as an hour and twenty minutes.
We have a large house with plenty of studio space. Housing here is very affordable and yet the local High school is highly rated. We are only a five minute drive from New Jersey and ten minutes from the Port Jervis -New York ( Metro North train station, round trip to Penn station is $20 for seniors), the property taxes and your state taxes are half of what you might pay in either of those states.
Our property is adjacent to a national park (the Delaware Water Gap National Recreation Area) with a trail that leads directly from our back door into the Cliff park trail system. This is no ordinary woodsy walk. The trail winds along the cliffs that overlook the Delaware River, a river that you can actually swim in, unlike the Hudson. Breathtaking views here are commonplace.
Add to that, your vote makes a difference in PA!
258
Nice. Thanks for sharing. :)
15
@Lalala Thank you for this! I agree and would prefer to have folks -like those sited in this repulsive article -move to PA!
17
For decades I have thought that a REAL New Yorker has to be someone who was not raised here because of the difficulties in appreciating NYC’s uniqueness if you’ve always been immersed in it.
Clearly a huge contributor to NYC’s strength emanates from those who transplanted here from elsewhere. They bring business ideas that often enough beat the home-grown folks’. And we don’t bemoan them for so doing.
Upstate is no different. The time and energy spent bemoaning smart ambitious NYers, labeling them ‘privileged’, etc., is wasted.
The last I heard it’s a free country. Show me a place where any new business, any new energy can take root without disruption.
6
I don’t think we should bemoan them and sure they have the right to move anywhere they want. But an entire article about it?! It’s just tough to read for a lot of us. It’s not our reality.
16
Intelligent decision ... and such a beautiful area ... but obviously those who choose to do this are well aware of the challenges and are prepared. Best wishes!
5
There's country living and there's living in the country. I grew up in the country where if you couldn't drive you were stuck at home. I went to school in NYC where I stayed for 40 years. I loved living where I could walk. When we decided to move back to the country (it costs a fraction of what NYC costs) I insisted that we live in town (population 92) where there was at least somewhere I could walk to see people or buy milk. After living in the city the isolation of country living would kill me.
12
I actually lived without electricity and running water in the Siskiyou Mountains of S Oregon in a cabin by myself for 3 years back in the early 70's...the nearby creek supplied drinking water..I am an artist and it was a great experience. I learned quite a bit...I decided to move to Eugene where the alt community was thriving...no regrets...This was after I lived in Woodstock in the late 60's
4
People getting priced out of their preferred market, leaving, and then rationalizing, has been a thing since forever.
Bottom line: not one of these wouldn’t move back to NYC if they suddenly had the means.
23
When I got married 30 years ago I moved upstate from manhattan. We lived in the country on 12 acres and at first the outdoors were breathtaking and beautiful. The area is still achingly beautiful (and I do miss it) but life in an old restored house is not what it’s cracked up to be, and as a former career woman from NYC, I was a fish out of water. I was shocked that so many people didn’t seem to know what was going on in the world and didn’t seem to care. Their smug conservatism and religiosity was creepy. I’m glad I got to experience country life, birdwatching from my deck, and cross country skiing on our property—but after a few years I couldn’t wait to leave, altho stuck it out to raise my son. I’m now glad to be back in NYC. He’s here too.
38
I grew up in Goshen, New York and nearly died of boredom. I have also lived in Shushan, New York and Cornwall, New York. Parts are pretty and there are pockets that are nice but much of upstate New York is dismal strip malls and 17 M a well travelled road to the Catskills is strewn with litter. You will waste much of your time driving because many of these communities don't have a downtown or it consists of a General Dollar Store and a Stewards. As someone from the Hudson Valley I would stick to communities on the East side of the Hudson River. They have a more "New England" feel and artsy sensibility.
17
I once lived in Woodstock. That area is beautiful but you can take the bus in to the City easily so not all that far away...Woodstock has been an artist destination for a long time and other places mentioned are quite close by. Surprised that buying house and land was so cheap actually...
2
I find it interesting that this article says little if nothing about relationships. Yes people move at various stages of their lives, yes gentrification in the city and country are very real concerns and yes nature is good for our health so what about relationships with friends, family and neighbors? I’ve enjoyed reading many comments more than reading the article itself. The commenters share their personal experiences and opinions and for me this is what a community is about, no matter if it’s in the city or suburbs or country. My husband and I recently returned to Southern York County, Pennsylvania while maintaining employment in Washington, DC. Many cities are growing so rapidly people across our nation are faced with quickly changing neighborhoods and lack of affordability. After concluding our lives would not include our own children, we prioritized and found ways to be closer to our family and friends in the country while also maintaining our friendships, community and careers in the city. In a time when our country feels so divided I treasure my privilege to live in both worlds. Meeting people, listening, learning, creating new relationships while maintaining and treasuring the old ones. We can learn a lot from each other. I hope I can continue to grow and never take for granted the gifts my life gives me both through privilege and challenges.
20
Been there, done that. I moved upstate many years ago and really enjoyed it for about the first 5 years. After that, the 8 mile drive to the grocery store and the daily Saturday visits to the town dump started to wear on me (no garbage collection). To say nothing of the 3 foot snow storms. Then there's the hard water that will eat through your washer machine if not conditioned. Make sure that septic system works properly and gets cleaned out every once in a while. I gave up after 6 years and a job transfer brought me back to Westchester and I've never looked back. Yes, Westchester is an overpriced, over snobby county but its vicinity to the city to makes it very attractive.
28
The bottom line is, fantasy adventure or not, people are taking their NYC money and leaving it upstate. That means a commission for that real estate agent, more money for taxes, the grocery store, and even the place selling hipster beer. Perhaps the NYC ex-pats and the locals will come to appreciate each other. To each their own.
26
I'm a hybrid city-boy/suburban/country kid. I've lived in the burbs of Long Island and my grandparents lived in Croton, NY. I've also spent time in the midwest on 7.5 acres of property in farm country twenty minutes north of Kansas City. It's was all a good experience and everything had it's plusses and minuses. I learned at an early age that the grass is not always greener no matter the location.
I fled the burbs almost thirty years ago and settled into a great life in NYC. I survived the thousand cuts and bruises this city will dole out to any new arrival. Today, my friends that stayed in the burbs so they could raise their kids are selling their houses and moving back to the city. The kids are grown up, out on their own and my friends are tired of mowing the lawn, shoveling snow, feeling isolated, power outages, crippling snow storms and sitting in traffic to do most basic things like food shopping or buying a container of milk. They like the fact that they can walk two blocks and go out for dinner or a movie.
It's an interesting thing to watch and have a good laugh about. Especially when they thought I was nuts for leaving the burbs.
17
This picture perfect perfection is depressing.
56
I think what feels “off” to me, in these stories about hip urbanites moving to the country, is the palpable sense that they feel they’ve invented rural living; a scent of smugness pervades. I had the same feeling when my own cohort of boomers started our own families, and carried on as if we had invented pregnancy and parenthood. It’s all fairly narcissistic.
223
Welcome to being human
11
Expat from Orange and Rockland County to Brooklyn here.
This article strikes me as a. Naive about the true cost of living north of the city and b. out of touch with the everyday experience of living upstate.
Re cost. True, housing is cheaper north. I pay as much for a 1 bedroom hole in Flatbush as I did for a 3 bedroom colonial in Pomona facing the Harriman state park (vivid memory of seeing a forest fire right from my front porch). But I also had to pay the endlessly high cost of a car and for summer camp and for every little extra we wanted. Nevermind upkeep of lawn and home and the repairs!
And as for the idyllic experience described here, I know there are Brooklyn-esque little nooks here and there in north NY. Nyack, some in Nanuet, some towns in the Catskills with little coffee shops... but they are just pockets of expats keeping each other company in the middle of grumbling Trump country. In Brooklyn at least you can't be so isolated: you ride the subway together, you share blocks, you share the free movie in the park -- you don't totally isolate yourself in a town of Neo-Brooklyn. This type of isolation is so off putting. A privileged class that only gets more out of touch.
Btw when we moved at the start of 2018 my teen joked, "that fireball in the sky that shines at us...What is it? A sun?" He wasn't used to being outside much. In Pomona there were no sidewalks, he was bused to school, and the kids played inside on electronics for hours. So much for nature.
35
@Frieda Vizel
I lived as a kid in brooklyn and the village, we moved to New City NY. It was culture shock at 13 in 1982 to be sure. We lived in a great house on a wonderful road that was populated with artists, like Kurt Weill and Henry Varnum Poor, in the 1930s. There were incredible homes made and incredible communities. However, in the 1980s the teenage culture in the suburbs, right up the palisades, was rich, conformist, socially segregated, materialistic and clique based. I loved the woods but hated it socially. More recently, I bought ten acres in the finger lakes region, I went to grad school there and that was a wonderful experience. I could not stay there, I could not find work and i found the creationist camp flyers a bit unsettling and the staunch conservatism something I did not want to be around while Obama was running. So, I came back to Philadelphia where I have the woods five minutes away and one of the greatest museums fifteen minutes away. New York is for the wealthy now, as is the country around it I suppose. Watch it change.
28
@Frieda Vizel, not for anything but your response reminds me of the classic NYC joke where anything north of the Bronx Zoo is considered upstate. I don't think this article was targeting property so far south....Pomona? You have to drive north to get to Bear Mountain. You might as well been in Westchester. If you described the 'real' upstate, things would have been cheaper yet, even to offset the car costs. Yes and some people want isolation - it's all a personal choice.
3
@Frieda Vizel
bulletin: neither Rockland nor Orange are upstate venues.
4
I lived in upstate N Y several decades ago. I thought that it was utterly lovely and spent time in Albany, Catskill, Hudson, Coxsackie Troy, Rochester, Plattsburgh, Lake George. I was a very obvious Texan and people were extremely nice to me . I still have some lifelong friends from those years. Upstaters are funny, generous, observant, hard working and they do not like snobs. And they adore winter... a new concept to a Texan.
The landscape is the prettiest combination of old mountains, beautiful rivers, forests and orchards, pallisades, cliffs. And many pretty little houses. I actually did swim in the Hudson once having been reassured by locals that " It's clean now ." I got a pretty bad rash but the actual experience was one of my favorites in life-we do not have such rivers in Texas.
But I worked with high schoolers and there was the same anomie and drug use the you would find in a city. People have guns and gangs exist. It is not a clean escape from anything except horrible traffic and unaffordable city real estate.
If you bring the city with you people may not be thrilled.
For those who frown upon the slender , yoga pants wearing, vain , self referential young mothers I have to tell you they are everywhere. Found in such places as Arkansas these days. Certainly Dallas. New businesses must be revitalizing-more taxes paid, more jobs. Property taxes are going up everywhere. Really you can't blame the Brooklynites. It would happen anyway. Are there laws against moving ?
34
The quote from the one who wakes up at 5am to stare at nature before commuting to Manhattan does not ring true: it is pitch black at 5am. What exactly does she stare at?
45
@vmuw
Depends on time of year
3
I don't think she said she stares at nature at 5am. I think she said she gets to stare at nature every day.
2
One small step for decentralization, one large step toward furthering racial inequality. Very bad, unconscious behavior by self-absorbed white professionals unconcerned (or unaware) of the consequences for the "me-myself-and-I" school of life-style addiction. And incredibly trite and superficial sentiments as well.
40
Having read all the comments to date, I would recommend that anyone tempted by this article to try such a move do the same and read all the comments carefully. Most are thoughtful and some raise important issues that the article, which reads almost like a real estate puff piece, either ignores or minimizes.
Here in the northern NJ suburbs we get more than our share of New Yorkers blinded by the comparably low prices who move here and want everything their way, or to change things. It's not that different from what a B&B owner in Vermont told me over 20 years ago. Anybody who wants to and has the money can move here, but puh-leez don't think you will turn it into another Brooklyn. We like it the way it is. (Currently embroiled in a quasi-lawsuit on the subject.)
22
This idea that living outside of New York is some type of hardship is tired. The only thing that makes this article worse is reading about people who move to country and start preaching "mindfulness" while in the same breath reporting they have noticed what plants came up first in spring.
45
20 years ago I purchased a house in Ulster County for $200k. That house took another $200k to get habitable. As new homeowners, we failed to understand the costs associated with repairing a septic, replacing a roof, plowing a driveway and landscape maintenance. Upstate brokers will tell you these things are 'no big deal' but not only are some repairs and maintenance prohibitively expensive, but try to find qualified people to help you. Painting your house? $6000. Digging up your septic? $10,000. These are not made up numbers, these are real costs I paid for my house. Yes I got multiple bids. The thing that drove me back to a more urban place was the neighbors, and as others have said, this article failed to mention that there's still plenty of 'redneck' in the country. My neighbors started their target practice, race car revving and ATVs at 6am and were not amenable to any negotiation on noise. Come to find out there are no noise ordinances in the towns here and that is your tough luck. The point being that yes, some people have found a bucolic wonderland, but often the realities of expensive and unexpected home maintenance, brutal, isolating winters and the undercurrent of 'us versus them' become apparent only after you write the checks. Oh, and my property tax was $10k/year, you don't get that back. Advice from a long-time resident, read the negative comments here and go in with your eyes wide open. None of these so-called negative comments are out of bounds, really.
90
@Lana thanks..
10
@Lana My sis moved to very rural western WI. Lovely country. She had neighbors who shot their guns off, early and often. You try telling them they couldn't do THAT. During deer hunting season, she couldn't leave the house. We grew up about 45 minutes away in a town of 1000 people. I had friends who owned coon hounds and went coon hunting frequently. Question: Do you personally know anyone who coon hunts? Many, because of the isolation, become alcoholics and or go crazy.
18
Speaking as a person of color here, the option of moving to a rural area is always a bit tinged by how one will be or might be treated. I suspect a lot of people like myself -- and interracial couples/ familes as well as other nonmainstream folks (e.g. Muslims, LGBTQ)-- have to factor in issues ostensibly other people do not. At the very lowest level, the lack of ethnic restaurants, supermarkets, and cultural events leaves one feeling a bit alienated and at the highest level, there is always a lurking danger that one or one's loved ones will not be treated equally. My friend is a Black MD in a rural area -- she chose to work there because her husband is a native of the area. Although most people are reasonable, a few encounters have left her feeling less than welcomed. And she's someone in a prominent, well-respected position: can 't imagine what might happen were she less educated, wealthy, etc.
125
@ms
In upstate western NY it is white, conservative and culturally vacuous. I went to wegmans for entertainment and rarely saw a person of color. I was not welcome as an outsider, except to hire people. It is true that it is not safe in rural America for people of color. I had to scrap the George Bush stickers off the garage. Once Obama started running and I felt looked at for my bumper sticker, I knew it was time to go. One of my professors, who is gay, had a knife stuck in her front door. Nice country huh. There was nowhere I could work, no where I could interact with anyone of color. Even as a white person, having grown up in Brooklyn and Manhattan in the 70s, I could and cannot live where there are only white people and I do not want to. They do not accept me, my friends, my lifestyle and my politics.
43
I live in a PA small/middle sized city, in a stone farmhouse, 6 minutes drive to a commuter bus (with free parking) that is 2 hours from nyc.
My mortgage is less than my rent was in Bushwick, there are breweries near me, parks, a Whole Foods (10 min), and many other things.
But, I miss living in nyc, so I visit 4-5 weekends a year, then come home and light a fire in the wood stove, and reminisce about how I don’t need to decide whether I can carry a watermelon home from the grocery along with my other groceries.
While being less green is not ideal (car needed), it is definitely easier than NYC, which appeals to many of us xNYC folks. There are no merit badges for just surviving nyc’s small expensive spaces. so I can see why many leave, as much as I can see why may move there.
42
As many have commented, this profile of rural living in Upstate NY was unduly slanted.
Let me add my perspective as someone who went to high school Upstate (Otsego County), has been in NYC for 30+ years and now has land and a house Upstate (Rennselaer County).
First, you would think it is only artisanal Brooklynites that have suddenly 'discovered' the concept of moving from urban areas to Upstate NY. This has been going on for years - and it's not just the Catskills/Hudson River communities that have felt this, but south Jersey, the Poconos and, for those who can afford it, eastern LI.
Second, there was little to no coverage in this article about 'real' people - that is other than artist moving out of NYC to the country, such as teachers and white collar professionals, and the reality of country living for people who are already there.
Third, creating services for like-minded transplants or weekenders is a limited business model. Towns like Hudson, Rhinebeck, Austerlitz, etc. can only support so many coffee bars, book stores and hipster cafes.
As someone who's been in both worlds, there is much to be said for moving to 'downtrodden' cities like Albany, Troy, Schenectady, Newburgh and Poughkeepsie. These places offer more job opportunities, affordable housing, good transportation, cultural resources and diversity. Plus, unlike NYC, all are 5-15 mins drives from rural parks and recreation, not 1.5 hrs + like here in Brooklyn.
Consider becoming a new urban pioneer!
85
@Common Sense Albany- so very much promise!
2
When the Internet started to gain wide usage in the mid 90's, a lot of us thought it would make rural living as a white collar worker more possible than ever before, leading to a reversal of rural decline. But that has yet to transpire as we envisioned, because corporations still want to keep their workers under the same roof. This is more about how modern companies design their work forces than it is about technical capability. I think we'd see rural America regain a lot of its viability if companies would adopt more robust telecommuting policies and systems.
28
@JS This will only be a reality when internet service is truly treated like a utility. We live in an urban area upstate, and even here, in and around a metropolitan area, there are significant areas with spotty or no internet service and the costs are prohibitive to many. Spectrum has a monopoly, and they claim they have expanded service in rural areas, but even here if you are at the end of a service line, they will expect you personally to pay astronomical fees to put up pole and extend their wires. Just not a reality, at least for individuals, but also for most small businesses.
10
As 30-year residents of the gorgeous Mid-Hudson valley, my wife and I loved raising our kids here. It's deliciously rural and was a necessary change from late 1980's city-life in Philly in the late 1980's where my partner finished her doctorate.
To her credit she saw how urban living was making a Tennessee-born backwoods boy squirrelly and let me choose our next home area. Visit to Ulster Count convinced my Jackson Heights-born wife that the country is special. Our home is an hour from hiking/skiing the Catskills, a one and a half hour train ride to NYC and a 2-3 hour drive to various oceanfront locales. The mid-Hudson Valley is unique in the world.
That said, and in the spirit of City folk escaping to cabins and rural retreats, Ulster became a bit cramped after 9/11 so I again convinced the now-county girl to look deeper in to the woods. We've bought 10 acres in southern Vermont that's another "escape" from our home. A 2.5 hour drive lands us in an off-the-grid cabin we built, the joy of true natural quiet (no car, train or congestive sounds), a star-filled Milky Way sky that makes your jaw drop and outdoor life as you describe in this article.
Kudos to all urban dwellers who, while appreciating the vast, unique benefits of NYC, see the value of buying and living in nature. It's a slower pace that affords anyone to slow down and see, hear and feel life at the pace it should be lived. Namaste.
16
@Question Everything
It's a slower pace that affords anyone to slow down and see, hear and feel life at the pace it should be lived.
^Your statement is just as smug a statement as this article. What if you want to live in nature but can't afford it?
6
Enjoy the rural life, by all means—we do, up in northern New England—but be sure to take all precautions for yourselves and families against ticks and tick-borne diseases. Become well informed, dress appropriately, be aware of high-risk times of year, and check yourselves and each other daily or nightly. It's an epidemic, and it's not just Lyme disease—it's anaplasmosis, babesiosis, and more. Stay safe and stay well as you explore your countryside.
41
Hello - if you really want to get away, to an affordable place with plenty of room, great weather, plenty of wildlife, a gorgeous lake, no crime, friendly people who will welcome you and your skills - come on down to Southwest Georgia! What about a historic Southern home, or a lakefront house for $150,000? Concerned about politics? Many counties in the area are Democratic, and Georgia is turning purple. I moved from the Bronx twenty years ago and haven't looked back.
40
@Susie
Have they stopped calling you “Yankee” yet? I’m a former Southerner and they are still fighting the civil war where I come from. Congrats since you seem to have found a good community.
13
I've lived nearly half of the last twenty years in Delaware County and the rest in Manhattan and Brooklyn. Life Upstate can be great, particularly for those that don't have the funds to open a business in the City. Winters are hard. It can feel removed. If they can make it there, they can make it anywhere!
12
Once again, as noted by others, it is hard to imagine that a free lance writer and a children's book author could possibly afford the cost of purchase of the property, the renovations, and all the other hidden costs with out the aid of a trust fund, an inheritance, or millions stashed away during a prior Wall Street or Silicon Valley career. It speaks of privilege, the indulgences, the escapism, and ultimately, the safety net that ensures any misstep or regret will never lead to real adversity, necessity, or ruin.
140
@rpmars The writer couple don't have to be trust fund babies. If they have steady work, they can make around $80,000 to $100,000 year as a couple. If the children's book writer and illustrator has a hit, that would make a down payment on the hotel and farmhouse.
8
You know nothing about these people or their finances. Why attack them for life the life they want to live.
8
I think the financial aspects of the article speak to how the economy in the city actually works, while the economy in these rural areas, less so. The people moving from the city have seed money earned in the city, and that's what makes them different from the people already there.
14
2 hours to Manhattan is not "upstate". Plattsburgh is upstate. And it should hardly be surprising that people who have lived there for years might have concerns about an influx of people into town. But then, I grew up in Vermont and while I love it and it is lovely, I'm very happy to be living in the city.
30
@Peg
I thought that anything north of NYC was upstate, is that not correct?
4
@Peg Downstate is anywhere south of Massena.
1
We moved from Chicago to a historic rural property on two acres. 10 minutes drive from nearest town, 20 minutes from the county seat, and 30 minutes from another county seat.
Due diligence when buying rural property includes:
Have real estate agent introduce you before you sign on dotted line to electrician company, carpenters, plumbers, heating/ ac contractor and gardening centers you will need. Have them indicate wait times for work response.
We also hired an architect who worked 20 minutes away to do his inspection, too, of the house—and give us his recommendations for order to work on projects. Money well spent.
We also got a chemical inspection of our water from both wells.
Even if kids no longer at home, know how well the school district rates in state. It is critical to property values.
34
Why do so many of the comments from the transplants who were interviewed remind me of nothing so much as the dialogue from "Upstairs Downstairs" when Lady Prudence Fairfax gushes on about having arranged a high tea for coal miners' wives?
41
Ten years ago I was on my way to Mexico from Brooklyn, NY. I somehow got stuck in Florida for those ten years (family members there). I always wanted to move back to Brooklyn but it just got too expensive. So I moved to the Hudson River Valley a few months ago. So far I really like it here. The people are very friendly. There is plenty of diversity and I love it -- about 50% Hispanic, 25% Black and 25% non-Hispanic White. But Newburgh is not mentioned in this article. My sister who lives in Brooklyn said that the hipsters and yuppies ruined Brooklyn. The artists who were priced out of NYC. especially Brooklyn, have moved to Newburgh and are helping to restore this once great small city. The only thing I miss is mass transit since I don't like cars and driving. Taxis are cheap here so maybe I can get rid of my car.
27
I'm a former NYC resident who moved north a bit. I'm still trying to connect with the article however, as it jumps all over the place. Some move upstate hoping to still maintain a city connection, yet it mentions Catskills and Kingston area quite frequently. What they don't mention is the the 2h+ commute each way into the city. There is nothing pleasant about that on any regular basis. Maybe once a month for pleasure, but not for anyone working 9-5 even w/ a telecommute.
It speaks of creative people moving north. Sounds great. Yet is it really reasonable for a children's book writer or "freelance" anything to buy a 500k property, buy and fully renovate anything, or open an inn/motel? What they seem to fail to mention is the family inheritance, trust fund, or 15 years of Wall Street bonuses that eventually give them the enlightenment to make this decision so casually.
And what of public schools, community, and socializing in these rural areas. Not everyone moves only to go to wealthy private schools and maintains social connections with the city elite.
This is the modern day version of the rich aristocrats taking the boat up the river during the summer to visit "the country"
240
Casey Scieszka is the daughter of the famous children’s book author Jon Scieszka.
23
@MH
On
Point.
Well put
11
@MH yes! This is exactly what I was thinking while reading this article. All the people interviewed seem like they must have had significant money saved up from either inheritances, work bonuses etc. at some point in their lives. They are all highly privileged and all white. Does anyone make money teaching sound healing and mindfulness classes? Yes, but the only students paying for these things are rich white people. I have a relative up there but they moved there for a great job opportunity that the city could not provide. They do Not commute south which would be crazy for 2.5 hours.
18
This is where the slender yoga moms all end up hanging together with their organi-kids and drive Volvos, wear Patagonia and look down upon every women who is not exactly like them.
Been there, seen that.
144
You know absolutely nothing about these people. Why condem them? It seems to me you're the one looking down on someone who doesn't look like you.
7
@JM You’ve just described Rhinebeck.
22
What’s with all the backlash to this article and the people profiled? So they moved and started a great bookstore, or yoga studio, or renovated a motel — what the heck is wrong with that?
It’s possible to have both the old timers, the farmers, and also people bringing something new. Where is people’s American spirit?
81
@Treetopn It's the tone deaf elitism and the preciousness. For example, the the renovated hotel is a place that "people like us" would like to stay in. Not nice.
34
If everyone did this who would NY state and city confiscate tax money from?
7
The city has an all time record high population. We have no problem whatsoever with people who can't keep up, moving away.
5
That picture of the A-frame reminds me of a dismal winter in 1970's New Hampshire trying to heat all that dead space, and all that glass... EPA would do well to bulldoze those monstrosities.
My advice to anyone moving to a rural community is join the volunteer fire / EMS department. Show up when there's a call and don't gossip about what you see - you'll be somebody if you do that.
63
@mkb
When I moved from San Francisco to semi-rural New Mexico that's exactly what I did.
And you're right. Joining the fire department is an instant entree into the local community.
11
I think I remember reading the same article in the early '70s when many of the city hippies packed it in and moved to "the country". I know more than a few who shared the same basic story: They moved, they adapted, they loved it. Their children went back to "the city".
My favorite example, who was not unique, was a single mother, Ms/MEd, who raised three kids, boy, girl, boy on 100 acres (maybe 20 of which were horizontal) totally of the grid, doing much education at home for both her kids and some neighbors who felt the local K-12 was insufficient while growing most of their food, trading for what they didn't grow.
At the end of the day the oldest son with degrees from Stanford went to work in Silicon Valley and then ACT in San Francisco. The girl got a PhD in molecular science and is now an oncologist at Oregon Health and Science University (OHSU), the medical school and teaching hospital for the U of Oregon. The youngest was a motorcycle racer and now owns his own shop in the small town near his home.
I'm now waiting to see what the third generation does.
Me? I lived (surfed) and worked (data analyst) in San Diego and moved to a small (pop.6500) town on the southern Oregon coast, about 2-3 hours drive from anywhere. I am now catching up on all the reading I didn't have time for, raising the fresh stuff I really like and enjoying the peaceful vibes. The locals are friendly as long as race, religion and politics are not discussed.
35
@HapinOregon Yes...I can relate. Moved to the outback of S ORegon in 1970...the back to the land movement..I loved living in Wolf Creek and learned quite a bit about survival and getting along with neighbors with different beliefs...Now in my 70's I prefer Eugene where Mother Nature is still close by and so are great natural, organic food stores...I also lived briefly in Woodstock NY, which is the local hub the article doesn't mention...
3
@Mitzi
I thought seriously about Eugene and Ashland, but the ocean called and I was obliged to answer. Looking out kitchen and living room windows over 101 at the ocean to the south and west, the CA coastal range to the east reaffirms my decision every time.
Sometimes the rain is horizontal, but then there is a sunset that one would swear can't be topped, 'til it is...
2
The thing that irks me about so many of the comments I've read on this article is the repeated, condescending, and stereotyped notion that "rural locals" equals "uneducated," that "rural locals" means "uncultured," and that "rural locals" means "not creative." It's as if people believe that when these things exist in a rural area, they can--and are--only being brought in by Brooklynites. I grew up raised by two parents with masters degrees in truly rural, industrial Pennsylvania small town at the edge of a national forest and 2 1/2 hours from the nearest major city. I have lived in NYC for 20 years--6 of them in Brooklyn. One of the things I have been spirited to see when I return "home" is that Millenials, who grew up there and have returned after college, are opening all kinds of thriving businesses that would be just as at home in Brooklyn: artsy printing presses, farm-to-table restaurants, craft-brewery-focused pubs, yoga studios, natural food stores, coffee shops, and bed and breakfasts, etc. These places are reviving the town. They are places that both transplants and lifetime locals seem to feel comfortable. In fact, my father, who is in his 70s, has often commented that these establishments, which often mine the design trends of and nostalgia for previous eras, make the town feel much more like it was when it was in its heyday while he was growing up. Brooklynites do have the monopoly on coolness or creativity, and rural Americans don't always reject these things.
78
I appreciate your comment and want to add that although upstate NY is generally more conservative, there ARE progressives and even (believe it or not!) educated, thoughtful people there. Kids can get a good public education and even get into ivy league schools. True story. I am not pleased with the number of trumpster/Confederate flag waving hicks in upstate, but that is certainly not everyone. The city doesn't contain all the cultured people. Sure, move on up, restore a beautiful but rundown farmhouse, and support and add to the local economy (please!) but you will not be the only educated or worldly person there.
22
@BrooklynCliche After a quick proofread, I want to clarify: In the first sentence, “stereotyped” should read as “stereotypical,” and in the last sentence, the language should read “do NOT have the monopoly.” Ugh—autocorrect!
5
Hilarious, could be the same article from 35+ years ago, when my wife and I moved from NYC to our 13 acres of heaven (land we pay taxes on) and raised two kids. Kids grew up and both moved to Brooklyn. Knew we were out of place, the town's motto "Ain't No Flatlander".
27
Interesting to read the hostility directed toward these transplants in many of these comments in the same issue that contains an OpEd about how rural America is dying and no one can figure out how to revive it.
So, we bemoan the death and lack of opportunity in these areas, but the few towns that are attracting people who are bringing new jobs, businesses, and population anf who are paying taxes that help the area are reviled and ridiculed.
Make up your minds, rural people, you can't have it both ways. You either want your communities to survive or you don't. No matter what any politician may promise you or how much you wish on a star, 1950 is not coming back. Your community is not going to be the same as it was (in the same way cities are not the same as they were in 1950! Ask someone whose working class parents could buy a house in San Francisco 50 years ago but who now couldn't afford a cardboard box in a shooting gallery).
Change is the only way those communities are going to survive. You can accept it and figure out how to be a part of it or you can turn it away and watch these areas continue their slow and painful decline. The choice is yours.
151
@Josie
There is often an attitude by locals toward transplants when we make our way to the hilltop towns of upstate New York. But I like being close to nature; I want to grow veggies and at the same time buy luscious fruits and vegetables grown by a local farmer; I use local tradespeople when my home needs renovating or repair...I don't apologize for wanting a full life here in the country. When some locals squawk about "people who are changing this town," I say, 'Be thankful for new neighbors who buy homes left neglected for years, renovate them, which raisies the value of your community, your home, and your quality of life. Be grateful for folks who add to the tax base, allowing us to now build a playground for your kids and mine. Be happy that you now have a bakery, right here in town, pews that are filled with people, schools that enjoy more volunteers, and a life force flowing through a town that was all but assigned to life support.' Be grateful for transplants. Look around. Feel the joy and hope we bring with us. I promise, if you do, you'll enjoy the change.
55
The Times wasn’t talking about communities 2 hours from a major metropolis like NYC when it said “rural”. They were profiling the “real middle of nowhere” where there is literally nothing but open land for miles. Apples & oranges.
10
Some of the exported city attitudes and expectations are just so...I don't know, completely un-connected to rural life. It absolutely boggles my mind that someone can make a living teaching "bead-making and love-letter writing". (That is a job?!) I guess I run in different circles--like my friends who are real farmers and work 50-60 hour weeks 51 weeks a year, getting their hands dirty to supply your exported hipster "farm to table" coffee shops.
118
@DK
City attitudes? I'd say your attitude was pretty judgemental -- who are you to decide what making a living should be, and those folks getting their hands dirty to supply hipster shops are making money doing that. If those shops weren't there to sell to, then where would they be?
16
@DK The writer doesn't state that the transplants are actually making a living upstate. The point of this story is that people are opting for something different in their lives, and feeling the freedom to be creative. What's wrong with that?
I guess you do run in different circles.
9
@DK Preach.
4
By the time you buy the property, the car you'll need, the gas that goes with it - and take the likely hit in your income - you'll probably be right back where you started in terms of finances.
Also, after spending some time in Saugerties, Kingston and Hudson this past summer, I found the day-to-day prices to be right on par with Brooklyn or the Upper West Side. (My favorite was $18 tacos ... from a food truck ...on the side of the road) And yes, as others have highlighted, there is a staggering lack of diversity.
But more power to the folks who are happy with their move up the Hudson.
34
if those are the prices they are charging in those towns, that is absurd. sounds like they want to make the money they made in Brooklyn but at half the cost. well, that's going to irk the locals and understandably so.
7
@McD81, I've discovered that coastal Maine has also hit the high end. Not a cheap place to live well any longer.
It is becoming the same as Cape Cod.
11
@McD81 Not to defend high prices, but upstate NY - even in the cities - does not have a robust, year round economy like NYC. You have to make hay while the sun shines. Same goes for coastal Maine and other beautiful costal places.
While it's great that these transplants are enjoying their new rural existences, they probably realize that they have also had to sacrifice something to get where they are now.
These comments I see about modern-day aristocrats with trust funds are laughable by the way....
3
I've lived in Manhattan, Queens, Westchester. Duchess Country and Ulster County and am the child of two people who spent 18 years in the suburbs, commuting to town and making everyone miserable with their complaints about missing the city.
I say, if you don't want to be out of city life, don't move. You won't really find any equivalencies in the Hudson Valley or the Catskills.
Yes, the country is beautiful, and the space you can afford is extraordinary in comparison to the city or the close-in suburbs, and your young children will benefit from a country start in life. Yes, you will free up money to finance your dreams.
However...you won't like the local schools. They are critically underfunded. Kids who grow up here fight madly to get out of the place, and there are lots of opportunities for the worst kind of behavior. The local educators might not be very focussed on getting your kid into college, especially if said kid is not a brilliant scholar or athlete.
People of color--any color except stark white--struggle against a kind of racism which is deeply imbedded here, in generations of white privilege. It's the only privilege many people have.
And yes, the townies resent the intruders. Why should they not? If you move here, please remember that you are entering an existing community, most of whose members would not, if they had the choice, have invited you. Tread softly. Be civil. Appreciate what is here and recognize that this place is not Brooklyn But Cheaper.
259
@Annie B.
I lived in Saratoga Springs for three years, which is pretty darn cosmopolitan compared to most of upstate, but, yeah, it's not an exaggeration to say that there are no people of color at all, it seems. One Saturday night during race season I ate in a sidewalk table section of a restaraunt on Broadway, right in the thick of things, hundreds of people walking by, and remember being shocked when I saw a black couple. I think the only latin people are stuck on dairy and horse farms, working all the time.
42
@Annie B. probably not just people of color struggle there, but those who are not Christian as well. Good luck finding Hanukkah candles.
33
@vmuw Seriously? I grew up in Schenectady, about 15 miles from the City of Saratoga and now live Halfmoon in Saratoga County. Schenectady had a large and vibrant Jewish population; and my Jewish wife has had no trouble fining Hanukkah candles here in Halfmoon. We even have two, count them two, Jewish families in our neighborhood!!!!!
14
Aren't they sweet! Bringing their money and chichi attitude to the "country" so they can live the rich life they can't have in the city while they gawk at the locals who live in doublewides and can't afford to feed their families.
Isn't that special.
76
@Jack Gawk at the locals? Not sure which story you read...
4
Vermont is looking for people like you "flatlands". They even offer 10k moving expenses. For the commuters its only an hour flight on Jet Blue. Come check out Burlington or better yet one of Vermonts many charming towns.
20
I left NYC 30 years ago for Sag Harbor. And when that got run over I left 14 years ago for the Maine woods. Best move I ever made. But that's what suits me. Leaving behind a city life is not for everyone.
I was fortunate enough to spend summers out of the city while growing up. It opened my eyes to the choice of where you feel best and want to lay your hat. There are trade offs. You weigh them, you decide.
I sympathize with anyone who is seeking relief from the outrageous costs of living in the city and it's suburbs. If you don't need to be in a city to make a living and you want more peace in your life, move to the country by all means. But don't be the idiot that buys property next to a farm and then complains about the smell. Don't move next to a gun club and then rail against it because it's noisy. Don't join the school board and start preaching down to the locals.
I recommend you try if you are so inclined and have thought about it seriously. Self-discovery.
Some will thrive. Some will run back to the city. For me, it's a nice place to visit. But I wouldn't want to live there.
Okay, gotta go move a cord of wood I just had delivered. Before the snow flies.
52
@Peter Maine is a slice of heaven.
2
"Mindfulness practices," "sound healing," "head space"? How much New Age cant can you fit in a single article?
63
@Jprof
you forgot yoga studio & bead making - new age hippies discovering nature- & peace & quiet...
but who can blame them?
just please don't overrun & ruin nature here in the Catskills.
some of our local "natural beauty" is being taken over & populated by either week-enders or those contemplating a move Upstate. It is starting to lose the quiet and pristine nature we all cherish.
we like it quiet and we don't like "tourists" or "city folk" coming up & "hiking" while talking a mile a minute on their cell phones-please don't disturb others - especially those of us who value our (head) "space".
Respect what is here but don't abuse it. pretty soon there will be no more land or trees to enjoy with everyone wanting to move & populate this pristine area
8
Does the Time's write this same article every year? I'll answer that, yes it does. But I always read it.
When I lived in NYC I had a small place in Stone Ridge, NY that I owned and I rented my apt in the city where I worked. 10 years ago you could get a fixer-upper on a nice lot within a 2-hour drive for 100K. It was a great balance but the drive gets old. While I could never imagine moving to the Catskills full time it can be a great area for those that choose that path.
I have since moved to the mountains of California where there are different challenges and benefits but my life has changed and it was the right move for me. Maybe how times paints this picture should evolve too.
15
Several years ago my family seriously considered a move from Brooklyn to Newburgh. We were charmed by the waterfront city with a small-town vibe and had our eye on one particular fixer-upper. Ultimately, the prospect of 2+ hour commute 4 times each week and the need to own a car nixed this idea.
We settled on St. George, Staten Island instead and are glad we did. It's definitely not "the country", but it has the lush green spaces, old fixer-upper homes and relatively low density combined with many benefits of urban life, like diversity, walkability and commutes under 1 hour.
12
Just a few months ago, I visited upstate NY, specifically Saugerties where a new and wonderful Buddhist school has been established - the Middle Way School. Just loved the area - great beauty, along with a friendly and relaxed quality, and obvious "life of the mind." (It was hard to leave Inquiring Minds bookstore in Saugerties, what a wonderful place!). For me, not much liking to drive, the many dark and winding roads felt like an obstacle I wouldn't want to face every day; but I'll be back in the summer, for sure, many of my friends from NYC now live in the area. Hope it doesn't get too gentrified! For anyone wondering, here's the scoop on Middle Way School for those with young children: https://middlewayschool.org/
7
If only it was all that easy......
As exemplified in this article, as long as you're with continuing income from your NYC connections and enough cash to buy in and renovate a country home and then just as much cash to open an upstate business...... you're in.
Just sounds and looks like the "liberal" 1% moving upstate.
27
@rob blake
"Just sounds and looks like the "liberal" 1% moving upstate."
Hi Rob,
Here, in America, happy and successful people educate themselves, work hard, focus on a goal and go for it! We should all find reason to celebrate our fellow citizens living large - however they choose to define 'large'!
Sour grapes will inevitably give you a stomach ache.
(PS: 300K for 5 acres does not qualify one as a 1%-er)
32
@rob blake I bet you that the 1% you cite are not moving to Kingston, Hudson or anywhere near these towns Rob. But if that's what you want to believe, go ahead.
I suspect a lot (most?) of these transplants rely on their Manhattan connections because they need the money, not because they are part of the 1%.
And who knows, maybe some of them are actually conservative politically!
2
Oh look: obnoxious Brooklyn carpetbaggers. They arrive and create a bubble for themselves and their fellow yuppies. Lucky for all the moneyed "creatives" who can live their eco-fantasy up here while studiously minimizing contact with those nasty townies who didn't attend montessori and probably don't even have undergraduate degrees. After a few winters they'll be gone back to Brooklyn with some stories about the "lack of culture" upstate and a case of Lyme disease as a testimony to their lack of understanding.
47
@Korgull
wow you sound bitter - yes "Brooklynites" seem to be overrunning the place but I don't believe they are as bad as you say - I don't believe they look down on the "locals" but in fact want to learn from them (homesteading, farming, organic gardening, orchards, craft brewing, etc
creative people are wanting to get back to simpler times: learning skills like building furniture & blacksmithing (is that a word?) growing your own food and building/renovating your own "shelter"- I don't fault them for that.
I live here but I find Hudson and example of a really trendy, expensive and "elite" town. from being rundown & poor to shops where you would feel out of place if you weren't the 1% - high-end antique stores, galleries & restaurants. I feel intimidated just walking down the street.
the reality is: in winter most towns' shops here have no tourists therefore business/ no money. there are not a lot of jobs here either unless you make your own (start a bookstore/bar, warehouse art gallery, etc)
12
Any Black people up there? Sorry - I remember dropping my kids off for summer camp and the front porches peppered with Confederate flags. Too many folks too dumb not to realize they were Northerners.
I don't care how cheap it is - most of these communities are probably not safe for people of color.
44
@Ann
Lots of Black people and rainbow of others!
11
@Susan
Where?
9
@Matt ha yeah wondering the same thing. Where, Susan, where?
2
Sorry, the hemlocks are no longer towering and the ash trees are disappearing.
Please do some research when mentioning nature. The woods are changing due to invasive insect species, most notably hemlock woolly adelgid and emerald ash borer.
http://nyis.info/invasive_species/hemlock-woolly-adelgid/
http://nyis.info/invasive_species/emerald-ash-borer/
28
Looks gorgeous. Please follow up and see how everyone is doing in a few years.. there is a reason we put up with all that we do in NYC. One of my kids is quite quirky and needs an urban environment.. both for the variety of great therapists as well as the critical mass of of other quirky kids.
Rough Draft reminds me of Krammerbooks and Afterwards in DC's Dupont Circle.. or our beloved Housing Works Bookstore Cafe (yes! there is a tiny bar in the back!).
13
@CT IHousing Works BookstoreCafe is the best!
1
Does this work for people of color? I have a hard time imagining black people making this choice and would like to know where they can go and be safe.
24
@Ellen
It can!
3
@Ellen
Lots of black people in Kingston and Hudson. Great places.
8
Because so many are moving to these locales, it's not as inexpensive as it once was. Check real-estate listings. And one's utility bills goes way up because it's expensive to heat a house in a cold climate. Note that every person in the photos is wearing outdoor clothes indoors.
Let's not forget that living upstate means living in a car culture: I live in Queens and have put 107,000 miles on my car in 15 years -- my daughter who lives in Ulster does that in 18 months or so. That's $8600 in gas per year.
In some locales, cell phone service is limited (good or bad, depending upon how you think about it) and in some, very high speed internet service is not available.
My experience is that food costs far more upstate than it does in NYC. In fact, I frequently bring food from Trader Joe's up to my daughter because it's so much less expensive than local shops. And restaurants, since many are run by former NYC residents, are just about as expensive as Manhattan. I just paid $4 for a slice in Saugerties.
Many of the public schools in the area are not very good and there are relatively few choices for private schools.
And one is not escaping the problem of drugs. Opioid and heroin addiction is a big problem in the area and there have been many overdoses at the local public high school.
On the other hand, there are some tight-knit communities and people do actually know each other. My granddaughter has had more musical opportunities than she would have in NYC.
53
@Martin Brooks Good comments. There was very little "real life" included in the story. And no mention at all of the car issue -- a big deal for carless New Yorkers. Leaving the city for just about anywhere else means buying and maintaining a car. Even "weekenders" must surely get a car in nearly every upstate town.
And I'm not surprised by the food cost. I have friends in Kinderhook (near Hudson) and much of the community is weekenders, who are prime targets for price-gouging stores.
Don't misunderstand me -- I love to go up there to visit. It's great to get out of the city, their house is big and charming, they have a nice quality of life. Walk-in closets! A kitchen big enough for an island!
But it's a big trade-off; certainly not a slam-dunk decision for hardened city dwellers, not even those who need not commute to work.
The car issue is the big impediment to me. What a relief to live in the city and not have to own, insure and keep up a car. Yes it would be lovely to have a country get-away, but the requirement of owning a car in order to make that feasible is a major drawback.
30
@GraffitiGrammarian They are many costs they don’t mention. To name just a couple: thousands each winter for plowing and salting long country driveways and mowing huge expanses of land (or buying and maintaining equipment and taking the many hours to do it yourself). Also, even if you already have a car, if it’s not AWD, you have to upgrade. Country land is nice but the person in the article who said their checklist is shorter must have lots of money to be able to pay people to take care of all the work for them.
23
@Martin Brooks Really? 107,000 miles in 18 months?
btw the limited cell service you say is a negative can be a plus, ha.
But you are right about drug problems.
3
I live in Ulster County. We need to build a wall and get Brooklyn to pay for it.
684
@Ken lol!
27
@Ken
I know Steven and Casey who own the Spruceton Inn. First of all they have moved to Greene County, not Ulster and not exactly one of the more prosperous in upstate NY. Second, let me remind you people like Steven and Casey have revived towns like West Kill and contribute to both the tax base and job market in these areas. Third, they took a big risk in reviving an inn that just sat there with very few customers and no prospect for success until they came along. Finally, everyone in West Kill including my wife and I think Steven and Casey are terrific neighbors...
68
@John E. Well you must be people like them - lucky you! And lucky them! That's who they built the inn for..."people like us".
29
Queue the deer.
16
@Anonie
You'd be surprised. After living in Saratoga Springs for six months, I asked some workmates, hey, how come there are no deer around here, and up in the hills I bike in? They're all over the place in Westchester. They replied, because we eat them. It's true. Most abled body men hunt for their venison.
12
@Anonie
Ha! The Funny Farm movie came to mind for me as well.
1
If I had a trust fund like your subject must have, I would move to the country too.
39
@Jim
Hmm, which "subject"? All of the people written about in this article were described as having jobs, careers, dreams, goals and business plans that they put into action.
11
@Jim telecommuting makes it possible. Lots more telecommuting jobs than there used to be.
4
A place where aging hipsters go when North Brooklyn gets small.
17
Christopher Guest, we have your next mockumentary topic......
126
Ugh.
‘People like us’.
That is such a problematic phrase in so many ways. Especially in the Trump era. Does it mean White People, Rich People, White Collar People? The notion that you would only be interested in catering people like yourselves is hallmark gentrification. Yuck.
I’d be interested to see how the people who live there feel about the newcomers.
Brooklynites like these have ransacked New Orleans and keep trying to change it in their image. Fortunately this city won’t go down without a fight.
74
@M they could just mean people who enjoy country living
12
@M They mean city folk with money.
23
@M. Thought it was pretty obvious they meant people from the city looking for a country escape.
9
After about two winters five miles down a dirt road in the middle of nowhere these people will give that house away!
36
@Will.
The ground will freeze hard. 4 wheel drive will get them through.
3
@Will.
But that sounds divine to me. To each his own. (I live in Maine and also have a long driveway....)
4
and the hipster deluge continues...
19
"being priced out of the city" Lol. Being priced out of Park Slope, is not being priced out of the "dirty city". Your life was good, and you wanted it to be better- congrats!
37
Oh god. This couple is a perfect example of rural gentrification. All they're doing is importing their city lifestyle to the country; in no way are they leaving it behind and embracing country living. To do that would require grit.
You want rural? Come to our part of Canada. Our nearest neighbour has no teeth, lives in a ramshackle trailer with no running water and uses an outhouse. But if you needed something, anything, he would drop everything to help you. Something tells me this couple wouldn't be able to get past his appearance.
133
This is what happens when landlords get too greedy. People are not as stupid as some think or would like. We vote with our feet and politicians panic when demographics drop like rocks and they are left with fewer voters to vote for them. Let the Exodus begin!
10
Come to the Northern Berkshires. North Adams has Mass MoCA, a stones throw from the Clark Art Museum, lots of artists and musicians, good restaurants, beautiful scenery, mountains, lakes, rivers, and of course... snow.
21
@Scollingsworth: Don't forget the clouds of mosquitos during the summertime, too! :-)
8
You have to love the shabby chic job they did on their new crib!
7
Born and raised in NYC, who thought i could cut the umbilical cord? How could i find a hair cutter, a dentist, a doctor, or humans who could use good grammar. yet, with a pioneering spirit, in 1993, my wife &, & 2 infants, gave up a rent-stabilized apartment, a house in the Hamptons, and two apartment/offices in favor of 34 acres and an ample house we had built. It was possible to run our service business by FedEx and a fax machine (i have since thrown out the fax machine. Clients still provide fax numbers but never fax.)
Pluses: a better dentist who apologizes for his "high" prices, a practically on-call hair cutter, a doctor who listens and responds to texting, frequent dog walking off leash, a billiard room, a year-round tennis club, no traffic, a larger social circle including transplants, locals and the disadvantaged weekenders, unlocked doors, a happy wife, a responsive contractor, farm to table ingredients galore...
i could go on, but i don't want to depress the reader.
When we arrived originally, we had to rough it. i will not forget the mother in a big box store who threatened to knock the teeth out of her child's mouth for some minor transgression. Most shopping had to be done via the nascent Internet. Now, we are twenty minutes from Hudson, NY, where excellent shops and restaurants abound. But, enough about our good fortune. How's the traffic in NYC today?
22
@tc lasky Who knows? I pay no attn to the traffic as I use the subway. Got a subway up there? I don't have to buy care insurance or gas, or take the car into the mechanic to be serviced. Give me the city and my public transportation any day!
25
@tc lasky
"Roughing it" in a big box store?
17
@Woman I think the writer meant roughing it generally...
2
I vacated Brooklyn one week ago, leaving behind a rent stabilized apartment for a beach house. My mortgage is equivalent to what I paid in rent. After nine years of having only a view of brick walls, annual murders on my block and an endless parade of cockroaches, I finally have an investment. Yesterday I commuted into Grand Central, took meetings, and returned. I walked home from the train station in awe of the snow covered, rolling hills. Sorry Brooklyn, but I did my time, and I'm over you.
170
@NYTReader
Where are the hills? :)))
10
A beach house with rolling hills? Hmmmm, a beach house with a mortgage less than rent? Please do tell where this extremely affordable beachfront commutable-into-NYC area is...? And it also has rolling hills??
24
@NYTReader yes, dying to know where this is??
14
Beware the politics of the people who live upstate. I have friends in NYC who have country houses in that area, and they've told me it's full of MAGA lawn signs. If you approve or don't mind, great. But personally, I couldn't live among a large group of Trumpites.
63
@vmuw
You have got the wrong idea. Flood the zone. Move to Trump-land and those rural districts will flush purple and then blue! Yessssssssss!
28
Trump signs are not in abundance!
3
Antonio Delgado is the new Rep in District 19. Vote here and make a difference.
10
Would add to the list that the Pennsylvania Poconos are within 2 hours of NYC and accessible to many major highways. There are many private clubs and gated communities that provide services which make it easier to live here year round - someone can watch the house while I travel, mail is delivered to a central location, I can access 3 private lakes and 35 miles of maintained trails out my back door on 5000 private acres for a fraction of my taxes when living in the Philadelphia and NYC suburbs. Yes its a bit longer to drive to the coffee shop but you can appreciate the changing seasons along the way. Not to mention the social activities and other amenities that come with this club life. Home purchases are often restricted to members but the process varies by club; its a lovely option for those who telecommute or have a flexible schedule. Glad to read I am part of a “trend!”
4
@Holly Moving to the country is not just about being able to appreciate the seasons. It's about getting away from the constraints one has to deal with in NYC - the co-op board and nosy neighbors, the nonstop rules about what one can and cannot do. So a gated community full of the same-old yet with more elbow room is not the solution for some of us. We're happier to live out among the folks with "We Don't Call 911" lawn art, who've come to accept us and bring us extra eggs and produce in season and cookies at Christmas after a few years of wary glances, and who mostly just live and let live. No Silk Mill or Settlers Inn for us. We blend in just fine at Pete's or the Pines Tavern.
10
@Holly
"Private", "gated communities", "club life", "restricted to members".
Sorry, but I find this an utterly, utterly distasteful attitude...this reeks of a (moneyed) "us" versus "them".
18
I knew Hudson when it was a dump nobody would go near at night. Now, it is NYC - with its prices -squeezed into a few square blocks all to cater to people fleeing the city for country life. Same with Beacon, Kingston and Catskill not far behind. It is great that some of these tired old towns are being revitalized but the endless stories of city dwellers with money heading to the HV woods to save money while making money there is truly tiresome.
36
Moved here 18 years ago, to an old ex-dairy farm. Built a new house after a fire destroyed the old one. This is the real boonies. Kingston, Saugerties, Woodstock, etc., are just far flung burbs of NYC with really long commutes to city jobs. We love it here, but it's about time to move closer to the grandchildren in Louisville KY. Anyone need a fairly new, spacious, well-winterized house on 187 acres? East Meredith, NY.
15
@Larry Bennett house sounds great too many acres I love to visit Cooperstown!
4
I have always loved Cooperstown (I remember first visiting as a preschooler from NJ). I was fortunate to have gone to college nearby and live in Cooperstown afterwards. The architecture and natural beauty never ceases to impress me. It's a small lakeside town with culture and history. Real estate there is relatively higher than surrounding areas (it's been a destination for well-off city folk for centuries), but its beyond charming. College town Oneonta isn't too far away either. The region has a lot to offer.
7
@Larry Bennett What does one do with 187 acres?
3
Interesting enough article but please, "surprised to hear that two city-based creatives gave up their urban roots for life in the country, so were their families." True, only if you had been living under a rock! Artists heading upstate, along with the growth of towns like Beacon and Hudson, the latter termed a Brooklyn outpost, belie any bemusement. Next, you'll be informing us that people have second homes upstate or - Shudders! - that people retire there.
16
I agree. How is moving upstate shocking? City people (esp. creative types) have been doing this for many years. My parents moved up in the 70s.
9
I'm in Columbia County.... Ms. Bushen and Ms. Tunney actually find local contractors that show up? That's a big problem. And the good ones are booked out for months. Some of the locals that you retain resent that they have to resort to doing work for you and say the property taxes have gone up because the town has to maintain and plow roads up in the hills that only second homes are on. That's all your taxes pay for in a lot of "towns" where there is nothing - roads and schools that are a few towns down. The only businesses that seem to thrive rely on second homeowners and tourism. There is an underbelly - look at the County budgets and see where the money goes. Does a lot go to social services? Look at the crime stats - Hudson has a crime issue. Does your town have a police department or do you have to rely on the County sheriff or State Police? Get a shotgun if you're far out. Every house in VT has a shotgun as there is no police force to be seen - hence a lower crime rate.
18
I suppose it would be ok if some of them left the big city and came to live in "God's country" but not too many or we might have to build a wall just north of the city.
6
This article acts like moving upstate is some new novelty. I was born and grew up in Rhinebeck. The yuppies started moving there 20 years ago.
28
Best was the comment from the grandmother on how the "Catskills are over". Yes, the "Dirty Dancing" days are long gone.
11
Man does not live by brewpubs/artisinal bakeries/twee bookstores alone. If you bring your own money, then go ahead, knock yourself out. If you have to make a living, these places have struggled for decades with lack of opportunity.
102
An important point. There's a reason why real estate is so cheap in many of these towns.
17
Like the title says..living in the country is ‘for some New Yorkers’. If you have the right occupation, e.g. writer, illustrator, it can be a great alternative to more expensive city living.
7
I think the poet Eva Gabor said it best:
Darling I love you but give me Park Avenue.
38
The key word in your sub headline is "some".
If you are rich and or have a good job where you don't have to commute to NYC you are ok.
Otherwise, get use to straddle the poverty line.
Big cities are horrible, dirty, congested etc. etc. but they are where the money is to survive well, similar to the Willie Sutton line, he robs banks because that is where the. money is.
9
It seems my prior comments are a bit too abrasive so are being moderated, but the gist of it was, does anyone really not know about this already, that many o in the arts have decamped to Beacon, Hudson, and Rhinebeck? not only artists but also retirees who once laid off at the age of 60 move off to their second home upstate.
13
i wish anyone cared about the environmental impact their lifestyle choices make. but nobody here even mentions it. i hope they will choose to respect the land they've taken over, and not just leave things to rot once they're done with their experiment of living in the country.
PS this article is SO full of awful trendy hipster terms and hats. would have loved a trigger warning.
59
Did any of these folks consider the environmental impact of such a move?
8
@LP Yes but when you see your rent double, triple, then quadruple over the years, with no signs of stopping its upward rise, even as you have to move farther and farther away from the city to try to stem it, environmental considerations hold less weight.
3
@LP like renovating a run-down property that is spoiling the environment?
3
Moving out to the boonies with your animal spirits rarely works out, because you don't get the customers you need to stay in business. These people are living a fantasy. They don't understand the sacrifices rural people make to live there. They don't have the grit to survive. What they should have considered is moving to a more affordable city, like Newark or Baltimore.
17
@Mark
You are so right.
There is a percent of snobbism in this trendy "moving upstate NY".
As much as we love and want to have real bookstores everywhere, owning one these days doesn't put bread on the table.
12
@Lea
Thank you. These people have a vision of rural and small town life that doesn't jive with reality. I have lived all over the country. The truth is, the locals in these places tend to be older and of modest means. They usually have ties to the area through family and friends who they rely on to survive. They aren't going to buy enough books and expensive coffee to keep these people in business. It would be much better for them to be located in a city near colleges and universities and where a sizeable percentage of the residents don't own cars. That's why I mentioned Newark and Baltimore.
6
@Mark Easy to say coming from Las Vegas. Tell one of these young mothers to move to Newark or Baltimore. I wonder what they would say...
After all this is a fantasy, an experiment, they are all 1% rich folk who hate the environment and love expensive coffee that they will force the locals to buy.
They have no right to move wherever they want to go.
1
A class in writing love letters? Sounds like the geographic location changed, but the urban New Yorkish values came along for the ride.
21
Native Upstaters have known all of this forever. But I guess there's no there there until someone from Brooklyn says so.
45
These articles are always pretty tone deaf, but this one is truly outstanding. “
“We wanted a place where people like us could go.”
“She was surprised to hear local people felt like their town was being taken over.”
And...”those towns are changing, thanks to people from New York City.”
Yes. Thanks for raising property values, which raises taxes considerably over time for no real reason and with no real infrastructure improvements. Thanks for pricing locals out of their dreams of owning businesses in their hometowns. Thanks for attracting very wealthy people who buy an entire downtown block, then raise the rent. This is a big, big issue that’s gotten a naively soft touch from the NYT for decades. This is an economic inequality issue, one that speaks to bigger issues in the United States at large, and it’s depressing to see it framed here in terms of pretty fields and white, upper class people discovering there is more than one way to live.
225
@F __ the people described here appear to be financially comfortable and young enough to learn the ropes of rural life. City bred does not automatically connote wealth. I, for one, city bred, have been living in the valley all my adult life eking out a living thanks to grit and talent. Not drawing on city salary.
Many migrants are seeking more space cheaper. Some love the country for it's own sake. Many are not financially set for life.
I don't know where you've been hanging out, but the locals are benefitting from city migrations. It's bringing jobs and enlivened the depressed towns with new businesses. Nothing's perfect. There'll always be folks who struggle unfortunately. Locals had fewer options before new wave of arrivals. Try to find a talented local contractor. They are set up with work a few years out. Mighty good jobs. Taxes pay for road crews among other local needs. Upstate school district staff are well paid. Hope students will reflect it across the board. I see improvements and prefer to look for the optimistic potential ahead. If only we had a President who's not a criminal. Imagine that! How much we could be doing ……...
4
It is articles like these that have been appearing for years now that have caused alot of people to go further afield in their pursuit of a country home . The branding of certain towns being overrun with people from - the major brand of all - Brooklyn, has priced others out of the areas mentioned. So the new trend may well be to the upper counties of the state , where real estate is still reasonable and children have names like Randy and Becky .
Please stop the spread of the dreaded B word , keep it in the borough that has made everyday activities and foods into curated movements . Sometimes facial hair happens without an old timey barber’s razor and a pickle is just a pickle .
New secret spot ? Otsego County ! Book it .
13
All the people paid a significant amount of money for their move.
Must be nice to have that kind of money.
27
@Almost vegan thank you for this comment.
7
@Almost vegan A lot of people started saving early on for a down payment for a Brooklyn apartment, back when Brooklyn apartments could be got for $300,000. But when those same apartments became $1.5 million, the dream of owning a Brooklyn apartment became impossible.
But there was still the down payment savings. So those down payment savings went to a place upstate instead.
8
Do lots of people living in the country typically wear hats indoors?
59
@Cookin Hate to admit it, but I do, regularly from November through March. It gets cold up here. Though I’m usually wearing a functional touque, not a fashion statement.
9
@Cookinhahahahahhahahahahah!
6
You lost me at "It attracts the people that want to be outside and make their own kombucha."
61
@DaveThere were many things in this article that took it very close to Onion level parody and that line was definitely the top one.
23
This is a story that will never end. People trying to make it work. Disenchantment leads urbanites to explore New York State and ways of life they hadn't considered. But not infrequently, their children gravitate in early adulthood to New York City for something they want to experience. Kudos to those who truly adopt their new homes and invest time, sweat and money in their local communities, urban or rural.
Also, just want to point out: Hudson, Kingston and Beacon are cities in downstate NY, not rural areas in upstate NY.
44
Upstate is anywhere outside the 5 boroughs!
11
@Susan No, it's not. But I like your humor.
3
I'm watching the change and its about time. Some of these Catskills counties are as Red as they get but the changing demographics from people moving up is starting to show. Delgado's victory in November is clear evidence of that.
23
@AnObserver There are longtime low-income communities of color in upstate NY. Check out the demographics of Liberty, Hudson, Middletown. Electoral change isn't just about well-off NYCers moving north, it's also about empowering the unnoticed locals who have been there far longer.
10
@Lowell I’m very aware of those communities. Catskill, Kingston and Newburgh both have substantial minority communities. Hudson is an interesting case with the amount of investment and change along the riverfront and Warren St change is moving that community very quickly. What we have to mindful of is the negative effects of gentrification too. Ther will be displacement if this isn’t done carefully.
5
Tim Burton made a wonderful documentary about New Yorkers relocating to idyllic country homes in the 1980's. I highly recommend watching Beetlejuice to get a better understanding of the challenges city-folk face when confronted with unfamiliar rural environments.
52
I made a similar move, Philly to Catskills. The biggest advantage for me is fewer choices. We have some great restaurants, breweries, bookstores, etc, but only a few. We stay in more, focus on hobbies and home projects. No more FOMO. Our friends regularly visit plus we're making new ones. I love city living, but country living has benefits that you won't know until you get here. But for those who think it's too trendy or unattainable or career-killing? That's okay--it wouldn't be the country if everyone lived here.
15
Brooklyn born and bred, 44 years ago I announced to my parents that my husband and I had bought 6 acres of land, 9 miles from the nearest town in upstate NY. "Isn't Long Island countrified enough for you?" my mother asked. No, it was not. And I have never for a moment regretted living amidst the natural beauty of the affordable Fingers Lakes region.
26
I was relieved to see what looked like the beginning of a concession at the very end of the article, suggesting that a move from the city to the country is not inevitably "rosy." But this brief acknowledgment that there are challenges inherent in such a transition quickly gave way to a happy ending. All in all, the article reads almost like a promotion.
I moved from a major city to the countryside two years ago, and it has been hard. Naturally I appreciate very many things about the different quality of life and expanded opportunities of several kinds. But I'm sure I'm not alone in feeling loneliness and frustration as well as peacefulness and expansion, following such a major change.
I wish the article had offered additional perspectives in order for this kind of move to not come off as a panacea. I am sure that many long-time city dwellers who are interested in life in the country would experience as much difficulty as I do, if not more, were they to give up city connections and conveniences.
29
@mrn There are positives but negatives for every single decision, just as there are negatives but positives too, in making it in the first place. Honestly, I learned that in Mental Health therapy. Change is hard. If it becomes to hard, change back. If that's not possible change your mind.
4
I'm an accountant, so I know that if you have to leave home at 5 AM to get to the city by 9, that's 4 hours, not 2.
42
@Scottilla Many commuters leave extra early to get to the city very early, to avoid the bad traffic at 7 or 8 am.
3
We live in Los Angeles and our equivalent experience involves a place in Joshua Tree or Ojai. It sounds nice, for all the reasons stated, but I wonder about the availability of good quality health care.
6
@BJ
Syracuse NY. Four major hospitals and one of the best cardio units (St Joseph) in the country.
4
@Virginia
Yeah, but, Syracuse.
12
@BJ
You could try Santa Barbara -- bring money
2
I have lived in Kingston for 18 years and love the area for the same reasons that have been listed. This area has benefited from it's proximity to the city. I also work in a school and with this am able to see the area from different facets. Two observations. Though inexpensive by city standards it is not a cheap area to live in. Many young people can no longer afford to stay here. Also, many of the current residents are from elsewhere. With this I a grateful to live here.
11
Fly fishing in the Catskills with a baby attached to you? I grew up in the city and my family went to Shandakin on weekends regularly throughout my childhood. I witnessed a lot of fly fishing in the streams up there, and it typically involved 3-ft deep ice-cold rushing water and waders. Plus the obvious - a sharp hook being whipped around. So what he describes just seems really dangerous. Unless he's doing the lamest fly fishing ever.
74
Aint no mama gonna say yes to that ‘less she never fisht.
4
I’m curious as to how many of these people are originally from NYC. Genuinely curious because as a fourth generation New Yorker it’s very difficult for me to envision leaving this city behind. Another thing I wish the article touched upon more was how the people who already live in these areas feel about the influx of new residents coming in and opening these businesses.
46
as one who has a second home in sullivan county, and who has made some dear friends who have grown up in the area, I can attest that this influx is not appreciated in any way, shape, or form - even though the dollars spent in the area are significant.
39
You realize how your second sentence completely contradicts your first? I've found the locals in my neck of the Catskills to be welcoming and friendly like people everywhere.
3
The towns of Berkshire County in westernmost Massachusetts, and its lovely historic central city, Pittsfield, also should be top on the list for those wishing for a life closer to nature and with community, artistic, and cultural attractions.
The region abounds with world class concert and theater offerings (Tanglewood, Williamstown Theatre Festival), art (MOCA, Clark), schools and colleges, traditional architecture, hiking and skiing. Towns have a strong sense of neighborliness and continuity, and real estate is relatively cheap, especially in the still beautiful but less fashionable places. Relatively easy to get to NYC driving or via train from Hudson.
16
@Georgina
My grandparents lived in Pittsfield so I've been familiar with the Berkshires for decades. Kingston, NY is the most recent urban recipient of NYC types looking for value and/or lifestyle. Pittsfield is everything you say. It is an urban diamond in the dust just waiting to be rediscovered.
10
@traveling wilbury
And you know what else it has? A bunch of Red Sox fans! Ugh!
I am 65, retired now and have lived full-time on 5 spectacular acres in culturally rich Woodstock for 20 years. I can walk less than a mile to downtown yet I have space and privacy. I know all my neighbors on a first-name basis. My air and water are immaculate. At night I hear nothing but cicadas, owls and an occasional coyote. I walk 4 quiet, healthy, unfettered miles daily, beginning right outside my dirt driveway.
Know thyself. What I like is not for everyone. I followed my own drummer. I moved here before the Catskills experienced a resurgence in popularity.
67
@traveling wilbury
Can we live there with no car?
4
Just a small thought for the majority who can't make this big or permanent a move. Take weekend trips. Stay in one of the many hotels, motels or B&B's. Go camping. There are beautiful hiking trails for all skill levels on public land. There is an endless list of places to explore and get your nature fix. And when you go home you can relish the trip and look forward to planning your next.
39
After living in Manhattan, Tarrytown, Hudson (in that order), I'm now farming in northeast PA but keep a pied-à-terre in Hudson, which has restaurants and shopping we don't get where we are in PA. Schools are a big consideration -- it was the Waldorf school in Columbia County that inspired the first move to the country. There's not much mention of farming in the article but farming is an occupation and a way of life worth considering. The organic farming movement is growing in leaps and bounds and we find the people who are involved with it to be a like-minded bunch. Homesteading is also an option in northeast PA where land and housing is cheap compared to the Hudson Valley.
20
I have a home here, I have a home there, if I feel like moving , I will. My most recent project ran a half-mil over, but that's life, eh? Gotta run -- late for my love-letter writing class!
176
@bill ha ha right? Love letter writing class...lots of demand for that in ulster...lol...my God can these people be more out of touch?
15
My (least) favorite line from the story: "a place where people like us would go". Yes, let's perpetuate our bubble lifestyle by only allowing people like us to enter the bubble.
My second (least) favorite line: "They're changing, thanks to a wave of city folks moving in." I'm not sure if the long-time Catskill residents are all thankful for the change.
358
@Hugo My favorite part is that this crowd thinks they are the first to think of this. My parents generation moved out of the city to the Hudson Valley in the early 50s- to land, fresh air and a place of their own. Their children, grandchildren and great grandchildren are now the "locals" who are the neighbors to these new folks. They are welcome here, but they are basically Columbus "discovering" America I don't see why they are newsworthy.
87
@Hugo
I live in the Bronx. The other day while I was commuting to work on a crowded train, one of these "creative" types got on at a stop in the (gentrifying) South Bronx. She saw someone she knew and began a conversation, then said something like "Mott Haven is great. People are really starting to come in!"
54
@Hugo
City people who move to the country begin to complain of slow moving farm vehicles delaying traffic, farm smells and the lack of artisanal coffee bars. Hopefully, an in flux of "people like us" will make the move tolerable.
32
I did this for 12 years starting in the late 80s. I found that after my child was born in 2003, I realized that the lack of diversity and the rightward political leaning of the population were major factors in my moving back to NYC with my family.
70
@Kitty L. I have lived in Kingston for 18 years. With reference to the political leanings I would agree. Especially in the rural areas that surround the towns. The good news is that we elected a Democratic Congressman in the election. There is definitely a mix of people in this area and it is easy to see.
19
@Kitty L. I think it's changed substantially since 2003, at least in the cities like Kingston.
3
I live in Maine and drive to work in Boston for a few days a week. Long drive, very lucky to have this job, and unbelievably lucky (but also well-planned for many years; I am not a young hipster) to live in the woods with far fewer people around. The only issue I have with living in the country is the constant driving. Everything else is wonderful.
36
Moving to the woods might be great for the city dweller who needs a change, who can swing it, but it's not so great for the school teachers who built their home in the woods 30 years ago. As property values are driven up by city refugees who "discover" the value in the landscape, the teachers can no longer afford their home in retirement. True story.
101
Around Seattle that would seem to depend on which school district and housing market you’re talking about, because not all pay or cost the same. (Move to Everett where houses cost less and teachers earn among the best salaries in the state.) Outskirts are all getting spendier, granted. I think the real story here is what’s happening across the US as jobs and wealth concentrate in select urban areas. Not to point a finger at the tech companies but.....
2
The lifestyles portrayed in this story sound lovely. They are also a very privileged slice of society and not representative of the real socioeconomic struggle of many other residents of upstate NY.
545
Yes I agree with you Forrest, some of these people sound like trust fund kids and very entitled. Oh! The angst moving from Park Slope to the Catskills!
79
@Forrest
This comment is spot-on. At the very end of the article, there is mention of the economic tension between long-time residents and the new folks who consider themselves "ex-pats" of the sophisticated city. No quotes from the long-time residents. Money is important to many of the people interviewed here, but in terms of choosing among options. The Real Estate section has a weirdly blinkered editorial set of assumptions.
97
@Daniel Mozes You are right - where are the comments from locals?
39
It would be fantastic to be able to enjoy both worlds - city and country - regularly. I would prefer not to “ditch” one for the other but to appreciate both. Why not? Seems like many people focus only on all or nothing scenarios, like there is no balanced alternatives. The truth is you can carve out any balance you want to with some creative thinking and some elbow grease. Go for it!
11
We've been living full time in the Poconos for the past four years, originally born and raised in Brooklyn. Compared with many rural areas upstate NY, the Poconos are closer (1.5 hours to Manhattan), and significantly less expensive. We own a 4br house on a lake with over 200 acres, for less than half of what we were paying to rent a 1br in Brooklyn. Having a child made the decision easy. Perhaps not as "chic" as certain towns in the Catskill Area, the Poconos have a lot of beauty, charm, and its easy to live well here, but only if you can telecommute.
36
@BklynLifer
Completely agree! We are Brooklyn expat artists living in Milford, PA.
@BklynLifer
Sorry, but the Poconos is even worse that the Catskills and the Hudson Valley since:
1) it is full of home owner associations that are just gated communities and
2) its full of a way more of ex-pats that are even more uncouth than those from Brooklyn - those from New Jersey!
2
Back in the early eighties I met one of my best friends growing up. His mother picked up and fled Manhattan for the greener pastures of upstate NY. They found a a nice little apartment building that was section 8 subsidized. His mother did not want him growing up with the gang problems many of his other family members had become part of. Over night as a third grader he went from the loud bustling city to the silence of cow tipping.
People fleeing the city is nothing new. Leaving the city on a bus with a few bags to restart your life is one thing. Moving into a quaint farm house with a six burning viking range is another.
130
The article describes the age-old challenge of affordable housing. And bear in mind, "affordable" is relative to the income and life=style status of the shelter seeker. To some, that large cardboard box under the Interstate bridge is affordable....to others, with advanced degrees and a very strong, supportive social network, fixing up a collapsing rustic farmhouse with great internet service is affordable. Somewhere in the middle there's a farmer barely making ends that finds a doublewide trailer(tthe modern day log-cabin) to be affordable.
87
It is hard for me to imagine that after living in NYC for 30 years that my husband and I would now be living in Jackson hole. But the article points out the reality of how much we all crave space and community. Being close to nature every day nourishes my soul and seeing friendly faces everywhere I go is a joy.
I realize it isn't possible to move for many people for obvious reasons but I highly recommend putting this into your long-term plans...a new chapter of life filled with so much more than I ever imagined!!
19
Interesting to hear the pros and cons expressed in this thread. After 40 years of grinding it out in the business world, we now live half the year in a rural town one hour from a metro area and half the year in a large city (West Coast and East Coast). Sensible folks will find that moving to a rural area with a cleared eye view will facilitate a smooth transition. We find that returning to the city becomes increasingly painful given the traffic, cost of living and general challenges of city life. Fortunately,I can still work since I like many can work remotely. I am not alone in my ability to telecommute. Our town is full of successful professionals that work remotely with the weekly or bi-weekly trip out of town to travel for their jobs. In other words, the ability to live and work remotely is widely available for many if you have the right combination of skills. No traffic, no waiting at a local restaurant, folks smiling in the grocery store and proximity to nature has much to recommend the move to the country.
22
Despite success in the city, I had a prolonged struggle with depression living in Brooklyn. I moved to Catskill, NY in 2015 with my husband. With more space, quiet, & nature I finally recovered & was able to function like a normal person again. Initially, money was tight, but my husband was able to find a job in his field in Albany (45 min from Catskill) & I began a career as Real Estate Agent working in Hudson, Catskill, Saugerties, Kingston, Woodstock etc. Our expenses are less than half what they were in the city & it takes a lot of the pressure off.
We are thriving and enjoying our new life. I'm happy to talk to anyone considering taking the leap to move to the Hudson Valley. When we were thinking about it one thing we noticed with people we talked to who had moved was no one regretted the move. All were happily enjoying their newfound peaceful lives. The nice thing about living here as well is if you miss the city you can hop on a bus or train & be there in 2.5 hours. Its the best of both worlds.
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Trains make growth possible as they did in the past for all of what is now rural NY State. Imagine what really fast trains would do. A client of mine in France commutes every day to Paris on a train moving 110 mph with excellent Internet and ability to talk with me by Skype. Her company picks up part of the transit cost. I grew up in western NY in a county seat. The nicest house on my childhood street (custom built, fireplaces in every room, a built-in library, well insulated) complete with town sewers, water and plowing even. It is on the market for $60K, no takers. Never would I go back to the GOP dominated cultural wasteland of my childhood. The Catskills are sweet for these wanderers near NYC but will they stay?
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@poslug Just curious - in what city is your childhood street?
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We stayed at this little inn! It was wonderful. It definitely had us wondering how we could get to a slower pace of life...
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Yet another “trend” that is supported by a couple of anecdotal interviews and cases.
Stop it - people have jobs and can’t do this unless they have some really exotic and flexible career.
The working stiffs otherwise have to stay to pay for college.
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@DMB yes, and not only is it just a couple of anecdotes, I am sure if you look into this, the subjects of the article are relatives of the authors deskmate, or live below them in Brooklyn - something like that..It is amazing to me how blatant reporters are at using the people in their immediate vicinity for subjects. No travelling for research, and it must seem like the whole world to the reporter..
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An article about rural living in upstate New York that doesn't mention the inevitability of Lyme disease—multiple times, in some case—is operating on fantasy. The mindfulness you are likely to find is the constant worry with each step you take, with each pick of an apple or a berry, of coming away with a tick, some of them so small they are hardly visible. Then there's the neighbor with the pack of dogs allowed to run free in the woods, or the neighbor who, somewhere out there, must have a firing range for automatics. Not to dampen enthusiasm for the idyll, but be prepared for challenging realities.
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@Charles Kaufman it's a good trade-off. Living away from the anxieties and expenses (the urge to buy, to compete) of the city now, mostly woods surrounding us, years now, yes there are those issues but you learn how to deal and not worry as you don't worry about being attacked or hit by a person or traffic in the city, not to mention the fumes and pollution. Spray yourself and clothes against ticks and take a walk in the wondrous woods. Pick up a dead bird and bury it. Plant a garden. Rake the leaves. Meet other country folk. Notice nature before we lose it.
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@Charles Kaufman I know some folks who live with chronic Lyme Disease - it's no picnic, for sure! That said, my mom and sister have HAD Lyme - did the antibiotic course and they are fine. I've had plenty of ticks on me over the years, and have never had it. There are plenty of bad things that can happen to you in life that freaking out about stepping on the grass seems silly to me!
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so basically you left an area because you didn't like it but then you want the people who already live where you moved to to change their habits to the place that you left
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My wife and I left Astoria 3 years ago, when the small 2.5 story house we were renting one floor of, was sold for over a million dollars. The house was literally falling apart, but the real estate market being what it is in NYC, well...
We looked farther and farther away from the city, until we found a 4.5 acre property, with a 300 foot driveway and a new three bedroom, three bathroom house (surrounded by maple and oak trees), in Ulster County. Nothing fancy, but it's very private. Luckily we can both telecommute, but for the times we have to go into the city, we are a 15 minute drive from the train station at Poughkeepsie, then 75 minutes from Grand Central.
We haven't found any of the jealousy or resentment from locals, that other commentators have. Almost everyone has been very friendly. In fact our social life is richer and busier here. The grocery stores are less expensive and the produce is much better. We can buy local duck and chicken eggs, and fresh free-range hens for the occasional time we bake a chicken. New Paltz is also about a 10 minute drive away, there are many restaurants, brewpubs, a beautiful 17th century historic section, awesome trails. The Gunks and world class hiking are minutes away.
The downside, if there is one, is that we must own two cars, and one of them must be all wheel drive. The upside- everything (mortgage, insurance, taxes, utilities, I mean everything) is LESS than just the rent on our tiny, outdated Astoria apartment.
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Taxes are lower because you have fewer services and there is no way your utilities on a three bedroom, three bath house around New Paltz, which, on average is 8-10 degrees colder than Queens, are lower than your old apartment. Also, an extra car adds a lot, not just the price, but insurance, gas and maintenance.
I get it, you like the place. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but not to their own facts.
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@Jack from Saint Loo There's a big difference between living in southern Ulster or Dutchess and living in the Catskills or farther north! It seems like most folks in southern Dutchess or Ulster have either lived in the city, Long Island, Westchester or have parents or grandparents who did. Further upstate, it's a different culture in many ways - not bad, just a harder adjustment!
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I share your experience! Positive, positive, positive!
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The Hudson River Valley is not the only countryside near NYC. We still have plenty of room here in the Delaware River Towns (Frenchtown, Lambertville, New Hope, Stockton) with direct bus service to NYC only 60 miles away. And, on the PA side of the river, minuscule taxes.
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For anyone reading this and thinking of leaving the city for the country life may I recommend that you have a look at Cornwall, CT. Beautiful little town in the Berkshire’s with mountains, lakes, the Housatonic River, the Appalachian Trail, a little ski mountain, working farms and many many interesting and welcoming residents. Currently there are a few properties/businesses for sale in the village center in West Cornwall yards from the beloved covered bridge. I have been daydreaming that some creative person(s) will come in and breathe new life into that spot.
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Be careful what you wish for...
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@AV Terry
James Thurber!
@AV Terry
Please don't send them to Western Massachusetts.
I lived in Ulster County for the first decade of my marriage. My husband and I left the area because there wasn’t enough opportunity available in the 1970s. Yes, looking out my window and seeing the mountains was wonderful but it didn’t buy food or pay rent. We moved further upstate, returned to school to earn advanced degrees, and carved out excellent careers.
Those who have moved upstate and can earn enough money to live can enjoy country life. City life can be brutal. I liked the idea of turning to local contractors and shop owners. There will be plenty of suspicion from those whose families go back generations. Creating a mini-NYC, only with more space, is not a good idea. If you want to live with wells, septic systems, and dirt roads, know what you’re getting into.
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Keep in mind by using local contractors and service people you’re tying them up and probably making them too expensive for the locals. So either get in line for services or ask the locals what they recommend. Get involved in your communities right away. Take up common causes. Buy local. Etc. Your presence brings changes. Make some of them distinctly positive.
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Chuckle. We live in the "country" and have for almost 40 years. What is being described as rural in NY sounds like suburban out here. Who plows the 5 miles of driveway? How far is travel for actual tradespeople like plumbers and electricians? Renovation of an 1800's home to actually make it energy efficient as well as accessible is not cheap. What do they think they will do when they actually get old? I saw little of that type of planning by these folks.
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@tom
There are plumbers and electricians in small towns all over America.
We renovated a Victorian back home in the country in the Midwest, and brought the 4,200 square foot home to such efficiency that our utility costs ( using new geothermal heating we had installed) dropped to just ove $100/ month including internet. The house I renovated would have been well beyond a million dollars if we had stayed in Chicago. We had 2 acres. In the internet age, many of us easily continue careers by computer. Now we live in suburbs to age
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@Jean perhaps in Ohio there are plumbers and electricians, out here, not so much. There is usually a 3 week to a month wait for an appointment unless it truly is a dire emergency. The reason I brought it up is all too many move to the country and cannot do simple repairs like replace an outlet or switch or replace the toilet innards. I know, I get the calls even though I am neither a licensed plumber or electrician.
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@tom
Ah, but I bet you have some great handyman types. I went to the closest country church and asked that pastor to recommend such people, and kids to mow my yard. All the neighbor farmers could fix just about anything.
Also, Bought a book about “ how to fix anything in your house” and learned myself how to do some simple repairs. And I became a Habitat for Humanity volunteer each year which taught me more skills.
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Thank you for the great article highlighting the possibilities and pleasures of a life upstate. It’s absolutely doable to live here in the Hudson Valley, whether you work locally or telecommute. There are amazing and innovative businesses like Rough Draft opening practically daily, along with restaurants, shops and creative hubs that appeal to locals and transplants alike. Thanks also for featuring one of our Halter Associates Realty agents, Megan Brenn-White! Her Instagram feed shows the warmth and beauty of a life well-lived in one of the most beautiful areas in the world.
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If you want to live away from the city, the primary consideration is whether you can make a living away from the city. There are a lot of lovely hamlets north of NYC like Rhinebeck and the city of Hudson - but they are not reasonable commutes. They do attract part-time residents.
Beacon is 60 miles north of NYC, an hour and a half from Grand Central, and $5000 annually in train tickets. The Cats and Rhinebeck are an hour farther north.
Here on the edge in exurbia - near both the Beacon station and one in Brewster, I can tell you that the thinning of local opportunity has made the city attractive and the commute unattractive.
Sure, there are lots of places between here and, say, the Rip Van Winkle Bridge, that are attractive, lovely properties. There are breweries and bourbon distilleries, and cider makers and farms. There are countless lovely trails past waterfalls and scenic views. The Appalachian trail is on the ridge 2 miles from my kitchen window. These places are available because the people here don't have the jobs to fund them.
Bring jobs, and those little hamlets and small cities could live again.
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Every time my husband and I look around to see where we can move outside the city (to a place that is not the suburbs), we ask, "But what would we do for work?"
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@Cathy
beacon is being transformed...there are wellness centers, yoga storefronts, cafes and gift shops opening. in the meantime, long time residents are being priced out of the area. now one might say, 'good riddance', as the new arrivals bring 'culture' with them...but the 'cuteness of the 'hip-ouiasie' becomes tiresome quickly.
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What's old is new again. I hope some of this latest version of an old story has a lasting impact. Upstate NY desperately needs new economic life but I wonder for how many winters living in an old farmhouse five miles down a dirt road will last.
And 'They wanted to open an inn, a place where “people like us would go,”' Ok but did she really just say that?
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@CNNNNC
Indeed,
"people like us". Yikes!
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What's wrong with looking for a community of people who are like yourself, who share similar values, outlooks, perspectives?
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@CNNNNC a place for hipsters in search of space.
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