It's Crystal City, which is really not a city, but sort of a yawn. It's not DC. It's not crowded and it's filled with transients, from Pentagon, in 3 or 4 year tours.
7
Of course Amazon isn’t going to a red state. If only those states put as much energy into education as they do to bigotry, things might be different.
12
This is bad news! Both of these areas are extremely crowded. Why couldn’t Amazon go bad park itself what’re it would be needed and wanted?
1
So DC, the seat of government, and NYC, the seat of finance, win. How ironic this news leaks on Election Day 2018. In his first inaugural address in 1981, Ronald Reagan claimed that government was the problem, not the solution. Amazon's location choice proves that increasingly government and big business are indistinguishable (e.g., Amazon makes most of its profit selling cloud services to the federal government), all underwritten by an institutionally corrupt culture on Wall Street. May this be the Election Day when real, fundamental change toward a more equitable society for all begins!
7
@PghCat - So, the decision has nothing to do with the fact that both DC and NY are two of the most urbane, interesting, wildly popular cities in the country which attract hordes of young, smart, creative university grads to live and work? Really?
13
@dean bush, really, the rich get richer and the rest of us get screwed. How much of our tax dollars support innumerable beltway bandit federal contractors adding little/no value while we in the sticks continue to lose manufacturing jobs and pick up the crumbs. Enjoy your 24 hour prime delivery while you can, someday your job may be the one offshored.
2
I’m glad they didn’t pick Denver, but I’m not sure they could have picked two less desirable places to live. Costs of living near Bay Area levels and traffic worse than LA. This must be more about poaching tech talent already in these cities. And about being close to the United States’ power centers.
What is the point of building big campuses in expensive areas? Most of the jobs can be done remotely anyway. Seems like a big waste of resources by a company that has entirely too much money. Andrew Cuomo giving away millions in tax breaks makes it even worse. Sometimes people get bad ideas inside companies and nobody ever asks if it actually makes sense.
5
@Rich K
One indication of how desirable a place is for people to live is how much they are willing to pay to live there. No one likes a high COL, but there are many why people want to live in NYC and DC (and Denver).
If you look at the request for proposals, you will see the criteria Amazon laid out. It should not then be hard to see why some cities were selected as finalists and others were not.
6
@Rich K - saying that NY and DC are undesirable places to live will come as a surprise to the hordes of young, smart, creative urbanites who are flocking to both cities. Why so bitter?
9
NYC relies very heavily on the Finance Industry so it will be very nice to have another industry that is already in the City grow. We are a magnet for young people who work in various industries and they are not only here to work but to enjoy themselves also. Once they settle down and raise a family they most often move to the suburbs and commute into the city.
2
I was really surprised when I heard this, because I really can't think of too many areas on the East Coast that have worse traffic problems than these two. Hours stuck on I-95, I-495, and the BQE for anyone driving at these locations for sure.
3
@JJK - the idea is NOT to commute by car to work, but rather to live close to one's job, taking public transit, bike or walking. That's what people do in big cities. Have you not heard of this model?
14
Precisely
1
Before I retired, I had a reverse commute from Manhattan to Flushing. It was an hour by subway, the 7 train, or twenty minutes by driving. I liked to read a short story on the 7 train, so I would only drive if I didn’t have a good alternate side parking spot. The real problem with NYC are people from god knows where except NYC who think they know more about here than the people who actually live here.
7
Amazon opening an office in Queens? So how much will this cost us?
6
I wonder what the good citizen's of Arlington and Queens make of this? When it comes to Amazon (or any other tech behemoth, I'd offer the same prayer the rabbi in "Fiddler on the Roof" did for the Tsar, "May the Lord bless and keep [them], far away from us."
1
@Jim - Luckily for all of us eastern seaboard urbanites, south texas is very, very far away.
8
There has to be an underlying motive for picking LI that we don't know about. Crowded, Traffic, and taxes through the roof for employees at this pay scale. Where will they live.
2
Don't panic, New Yorkers. This is a great opportunity to shape the image of NYC as tech+finance+media+innovation hub (AKA capital of the world).
Compared with the 8.6 million people already living in NYC, the traffic/housing issues caused by 0.025 million Amazon employees will be significantly limited. Instead, tax money collected from the educated Amazon employees can be helpful to fix subway systems.
For Amazon employees, enjoy urban life in NYC. Or if you don't, relocate and enjoy your suburb life in Crystal City.
Clever choice for Amazon!
7
@Qiuyu Long The tax money collected from these employees probably wont even cover the corporate hand outs the state and city will be giving away to get amazon there in the first place.
As for Crystal City, if you think these worker are going to be communing from their 'suburb life' in Loudoun Country, I have a bridge to sell you. Nope, what's going to happen is even more displacement of the "economically disenfranchised" in South East DC. But hey, we'll just call it gentrification so it's Ok.
7
@Qiuyu Long
You apparently have never been to Arlington. CC is urban and about 4 miles from the White House.
7
Crystal City is a "suburb" of DC in the exact same way that Long Island City is a suburb of Manhattan. Strange terminology.
8
Well, Long Island City is a part of New York City. Crystal City is not a part of the District of Columbia; it’s in Virginia.
2
@Skippy Crystal City is part of what is lovingly referred to as the DMV (District Maryland Virginia). The city's Metro system conveniently connects Crystal City to DC proper. If you look closely at a map of the District of Columbia, you will note that the grid system suddenly ends on the VA side of the Potomac river. This is because back in 1846, VA took back the land it had given to the US to create the Capital City. Had VA not been the indian giving state it is, Crystal City would be a part of DC proper. .
4
@JustInsideBeltway, Crystal City is a suburban office park next to the airport, albeit with an in-town location. LIC is more urban/dense/walkable/transit oriented than practically anywhere in the U.S. outside of NYC. Very different.
4
This is great for The Vornado spin-off of its poorly performing commercial space in Crystal City. The area has become a virtual ghost town with even federal agencies pulling out of the aging ugly 60s era architecture built around a dingy “underground” I don’t see Jeff Bezos paying to gut and rehab these places or tear them down to create a modern walkable urban environment. More likely VA taxpayers will pay for the cost of making this attractive for Amazon. The N/VA area politicians have told taxpayers for the last 30 years that if they just supported more intensive development, they would get more services at lower taxes. Instead our infrastructure is choked with more people, kids and cars and a totally dysfunctional Metro. No one needs Amazon except the developers.
5
The way that the different levels of government are literally handing America over to Jeff Bezos is horrible. Cuomo is ready to change his first name to Amazon... Washington's mayor says #obviouslyDC, national tax policy subsidizes his low-wages with food stamps and welfare. The whole country is literally at it's knees for this guy. Meanwhile he already owns the Washington Post, Whole foods, etc... he's in the running for the Defense Department's cloud warfare bid... he's offering the government facial recognition tech for policing... he's planning on starting his own pharmaceutical sales branch, his own healthcare system... and it's just a matter of time until he starts his own currency and banks! Do we really want to had over our government to a guy who mistreats his workers, the environment, and has an escapist grand-vision of sending billionaires to space through Blue Origin. The guy grew as a nerdy younger brother to a more macho older brother who is now a Firefighter and he witnessed the moon landing on TV at age 5... he's turned into a power hungry, space dreamer. Do we really want to sell our freedoms to this guy in return for consumer convenience without a conscience....??? I wish he was still just a nerdy book salesman.
8
How exactly do we "solve" the housing and COL problem that these high-tech companies exacerbate in the cities they choose to massively expand in?
In Seattle, I've seen the homeless problem first-hand, I've seen rents go up, I've seen gentrification price out locals who were already there.
My question is: how exactly do we solve this problem and find a balance between growth and maintaining the culture and environment that was there before these tech companies and avoid pricing out individuals not involved in tech?
Is it as simple as taking away the tax breaks we give to these companies (and then I guess we have the problem of figuring out how to effectively use that money)?
I’ve been doing some research into San Francisco’s housing laws and it seems like zone developments there have been severely restricted since the late 1960s, making it difficult to build more housing that is desperately needed.
I’m genuinely curious since I’m just starting to get into the tech industry (college student) but hate seeing the detrimental effects it has on the locations where it booms.
7
I'd take Amazon over my jurisdiction pandering to an NFL team for another multi-billion stadium only to be used 8 times a year supporting a handful of min wage jobs.
Should the ravens or DC team threaten to hold us hostage for another stadium when my local school has to sell mattresses for a new track rest assured I'll be the first one supporting their departure.
15
Yes, Amazon's move to Arlington (which is virtually in downtown DC) will exacerbate our problems of high housing costs and traffic congestion. But it also could provide some of the solutions. The DC Metro system (second only to NYC's in extent and users) has been living hand-to-mouth and in decay for years. As I understand it, largely with the goal of attracting Amazon to this area, the governments of DC, VA, and MD, finally agreed after forty years to a dedicated, tax-based revenue stream for Metro which, though still inadequate, should make a major difference in saving public transportation in this region. That alone is cause to put out the welcome mat for Amazon, even if (as businesses do) it is seeking the best deal it can get from the taxpayers.
7
Amazon shows their stripes and opens new offices in upper class areas. What about Newark, Philadelphia or Detroit where there are people who make less than $100,000/year? Long Island City - that’s one place that doesn’t need Amazon. Public transportation already stinks there, add 50,000 new workers and what do you get? Chaos. Or maybe Amazon wants them all to drive to work like they do in California, that’s a fabulous idea! Amazon is on a streak of weird ideas lately but plunking their new office down in Queens really beats all. Ex-New Yorker btw.
10
@ScottC I'm a hiring manager in software development. Detroit has the second-highest murder rate in the country. Detroit would be a huge liability and NYC is a huge plus. This is really, really simple.
8
@ScottC Audible (part of Amazon and booming) is in Newark and has done a lot for the city since establishing its campus.
5
@ScottC Why would any sane business consider Newark, Philly or Detroit, especially Detroit?
1
Not exactly centers where there is a low cost of living.
5
I am sorry this is happening to you in NY and VA. Amazon sucked the life out of Seattle, forever changing it, and not for the better. Do what you can now to save your neighborhoods from this beast.
11
@Camarda Amazon is already all over Virginia. The headquarters will make it easier for those thousands who already work here.
1
@Camarda - I lived at 2nd and Stewart in Seattle until 2016. What Amazon did was breathe life INTO that part of the city. Previously, for decades, the area was a ratty, desolate, dangerous area with vacant / underutilized buildings and surface parking lots!
2
@dean bush Yes, I'm sure you're right. Depends on what you prefer. I prefer a city that is affordable for many not just newly transplanted tech workers. With Amazon came gentrification at an alarming speed. Everything you describe is still here, just shoved under the highways and greenbelts, and not visible to most.
3
Three headquarters? Perhaps a different word is needed.
10
And if you didn’t think NYC property values could go any higher...
9
I actually grew up in Indiana and have been more than happy with my return on real estate investments here in NYC since 1980.
If you want to live in the greatest city on earth, there is a cost of entry.
This will be a huge plus for our progressive, inclusive city!
4
@Steven
It's not progress, it's Soylent Green.
1
Amazon stay away from NYC!!! This city can barely function as it is. Public transit is a JOKE and real estate prices are astronomical. Don’t come here!!!
9
In a better world one of them would go to Dallas. Importing a crowd of Democrats and lobbying influence to turn Texas Blue would be the greatest gift Bezos could give to the nation and the world. But of course the business of business is mostly business, and mostly not betterment.
10
@Richard Schumacher Yeah, I was hoping for Texas, but the state is still too red for Amazon, sadly.
1
@Richard Schumache The large cities in Texas are already Blue. Dallas, Houston and Austin all voted for Hillary.
1
One small item... I don't think anyone that's been to Crystal City would call it a "suburb" of Washington, DC.
4
@Argus Very true. But for the Potomac River it would be part of DC. Fortunately for Virginia residents, it isn't. But it's certainly not a suburb. I grew up and graduated from high school there. That was nearly 50 years ago, and it wasn't even really a suburb then.
3
As long as they don't come here.
4
I am trying not to use amazon anymore. Low wages and silence on the coming fascism. I don't care that Bezos owns the Post. Corporations are in control in this country and they are all in on the fascism that gives them all the power. All of them. Close your facebook account, close your twitter account, stop using amazon, boycott the advertisers on FOX. Control rest in the hands of the corporations and they are failing to do anything but enslave the people.
6
@Chris He actually pays well. And, excellent benefits to full time employees.
6
I lived in DC and northern Virginia for 41 years. I live in the Boston 'burbs now. The traffic - as here - will be unbelieveable. It's already bad in Arlington and Fairfax. Let's be honest for a change. I know Crystal City well. Yeah, the Meltro is there and so is National Airport (I refuse to think of it as St. Reagan airport). Amazon is a joke. Do we really want everything to belong to one company? Amazon and Hole Foods and the Washington Puss both belong to Bezos. Delivery by drone? Is that really cool? What happens when the power goes off or when all the jobs are outsourced to China? Do you really think the tech kids are going to live way out the red line and use the subway or live on Capital Hill? Not unless there's wifi for everyone...
1
@Bill I've lived here my entire life, grew up in Arlington blocks from Crystal City. First, the traffic here is unbelievable already, and Amazon moving to Crystal City is more likely to reduce it than exacerbate it. Up until now it was occupied mostly by government workers who commuted from distant suburbs. Today, Arlington is filled will millenials and I-gens who eschew cars in favor of Metro, Uber and Lyft. My 26-YO son works for PWC in DC; he commuted from Arlington via Metro for a few years before moving to DC. He has a car but rarely uses it except on weekends for trips. Arlington has been building denser and denser housing for years, as has southwest DC. The Crystal City Amazon workers are assuredly not going to be driving there for the most part, compared to the government workers who used to.
8
So if Amazon splits their HQ2, does each city/state cut it's invcentive offer in half, or does Amazon reap the full benefits of two incentive packages?
4
Amazon did not choose Austin.
Thank you, thank you, thank you!!!
10
Your welcome! We in NYC love to progress our great city forward.
7
Another reason to leave NYC
9
Well Boston at least got several thousand software jobs.
1
If Bezos builds in those places he should hire Musk to build Hyperloops to serve them.
7
It is most certainly NOT about talent! It is about money and power! Bezos wants to locate close to political power, i.e., Washington DC and money, i.e., New York! This is a replay of Boeing decades back that moved their HQ from Seattle to Chicago, closer to travel hubs and, most importantly, money.
19
The next time Bezos comes to DC to check on the newspaper, the Washington Post, that he owns, he should actually drive I-395 at rush hour from the Beltway to Crystal City. He'll quickly change his mind after he spends an hour plus to go a few short miles. And that is if there are no wrecks.
Seattle has horrible traffic, but NoVa is worse.
6
Folks this is a office headquarters building - it has nothing to do with product distribution centers - there’s no 18 wheels trucks pulling up in Long Island city. And there’s no additional traffic except Uber’s
These are all clean, high paying, high tech office jobs.
A huge lift for the city
8
@Steven, who said anything about distribution jobs? I-395 is the main highway into Arlington from outer suburbs. There is only so much housing in Crystal City, and most of it is already occupied by other highly paid professionals. If Amazon expects to transfer thousands of office jobs to Arlington, the vast majority of those folks will be commuting and most will be commuting via 395 - whether they drive or take Uber. Plain and simple, traffic on 395 is already a nightmare. And Metro is insufficient to serve thousands or tens of thousands of additional workers at that stop. If Bezos or anyone working for Amazon thinks they won't be impacted by 395 traffic, they're fooling themselves.
1
@The Real Mr. Magoo The workers he'll be attracting won't be driving from Springfield to Crystal City. They'll be living in Arlington and southwest DC and taking Metro.
4
My guess is logistics in delivery.
Was suprised that Chicago
Was not chosen, but with all that
Access in the fulton district it
May have been just too far
North midwest for bezos,
I doubt product from canada is even
Close to what comes off the atlantic.
Maybe there is a good quick
Rail for merch that dc has.
Chicago will miss you amazon,
Fulton district IS AWESOME
did delivery there years ago,
1
Soon we will learn how big a bribe Earth's richest person needs to site a few buildings. ... Or will we? Is it possible to keep secret the terms of a giveaway of public money?
7
We’re quite aware of the details of arrangement here in NYC and very happy.
Do a little research and then compare this to the trillion dollars the bought and paid for GOP just handed hedge funds and real estate developers in tax cuts that are coming right out of the pockets and school systems of working Americans families.
5
@Steven...Didn't you just tell us that you have been very happy with your NYC real estate investments since 1980? Do you mean to say you have never taken advantage of the many tax incentives that your real estate investments have presented? How noble.
If I were Amazon I would have put HQ 2 in Puerto Rico.
That one move alone could transform the island into an economic and tech powerhouse and fashion an unimagined future.
In addition to showing what a disgrace and failure Trump's prejudice against Puerto Ricans is.
6
@Philoscribe Yeah, because so many highly-educated millennials and I-Gens are dying to live in Puerto Rico. And the universities there; whey they put the Ivy League to shame.
4
Denver dodged a bullet. I wouldn't want Amazon within 500 square miles of my home town. Imagine the obnoxious tech people crowding our ski lifts on holiday weekends. It's easier to fly to Utah than drive in Colorado. Eek. Keep Amazon far away, very far away.
I can't speak for Arlington but I don't see how Queens can be happy. Unless you have computer science degree, Amazon isn't going to help you much. You thought parking was bad before. Just wait. HQ2 is the dog who caught the car. This isn't going to be pretty no matter where they land. You just elected a corporate overlord. Have fun navigating those politics.
7
Well we’re really very happy here in NYC.
Our progressive, inclusive, gun control city loves real high paying, high tech jobs and the well educated people who do them.
6
Good to see that Amazon did not choose NC, the state known for discriminatory laws.
1
It's interesting to note that neither of these locations are in Trump County. NY and the D.C. suburbs are far from low-tax, anti-union sunbelt states like Florida, Tennessee or Texas, which handed Trump healthy wins in 2016. It's clear that there is no love lost between Trump and Bezos. These HQ2 locations may be another way for Bezos to drive the point home.
7
No surprise here.
Why would anyone put their corporation in a Republican state, with falling apart public school systems, failing infrastructure, no environmental controls, gun violence, and surrounded by bigotry?
2
@Steven...It's funny that you would mention failing infrastructure while you brag about the Big Apple. You must know something about the subway that Amazon Andy and Big Bill are missing. Oh, have you noticed the complexion of Upstate New York? It looks like a boiled lobster. Go figure.
I'm not sure New Yorkers should be taking advice on quality-of-life matters from a resident of Fairfield, CT, which bears more resemblance to the town in the movie, The Truman Show, than it does to a real place in 2018.
In Fairfield, CT, median family income is $120,000 and median home prices are around $700,000. As in the movie, the town is 93 per cent white. It's most signficant economic engine is Storm Ruger, a gun manufacturer, whose workers can't afford to live in the community. There is no public transportation, so all driving is a necesssity for anything & everything--jobs, school, visits to the doctor, sessions at the gym, evenings at the theater (there are two, both run by Fairfield University), afternoons at the museum (one).
Fairfield, CT, unlike Long Island City, sounds like the ideal place for residents who think it's still 1958. Not everybody does, and obviously neither does Jeff Bezos.
2
As an Astoria resident, this turns my stomach. Cost of living in the LIC area is already astronomical, commutes are crowded as it is, and a shrinking housing stock is only being replaced by high-priced luxury apartment buildings. To add insult to injury, Amazon is notorious for the poor treatment of its workers and low wages.
We've already lost so much of the character and uniqueness of our city over the past decade, with the economic crash, out of control gentrification, and Tale of Two Cities levels of income inequality. The tech industry has already killed San Francisco and Seattle. Must New York be next?
4
Excellent news for those who are fans of further entrenching inequality in America! Three cheers for choosing coastal communities that are already filthy rich and teeming in unaffordable housing!
To think the talking heads once thought you'd use this second headquarters as a way to diversify your astronomical profits and build up the country.
6
Would Amazon actually build a new, high-tech headquarters or use existing office space in the area?
1
@Zenia Crystal City has plenty of existing office space that can be renovated to state of the art for a fraction of what it would cost to build new. There's an underground connecting all the buildings, filled with shops, restaurants, a food court and a Metro stop. There's an upscale mall three blocks away.
2
I worked in LIC most of my adult life. It offers quick access to the heart of Manhattan where other industries that Amazon may want to get involved with in the future. Public transportation and a huge labor market for technical and other trades is readily available. LIC has built up its residential market ten fold in the last couple of decades. There's loads of small manufacturing plant buildings that could be used for office and distribution. Airports are nearby and NYC is a hub for everything in the East. Taxes are high. But I'm not sure how that effect Amazon since they have headquarters elsewhere. Executives will be attracted to the NYC life style the Big Apple is known for. This is a win-win for both sides.
7
A smart move to split the workforce. NYC would benefit from the Technology Industry growth lessening its dependence on the Financial sector. There are certain Industries that just would not work for the city this one can be a fit. LIC was a light manufacturing area I can remember Swing-line Staple company shuttering in the late 70’s along with Adam chewing Gum. Yes and up grade the infrastructure long over due.
4
Long Island City is also right across from the beautiful new Cornell Tech campus on Roosevelt Island where there is a slew of computer science grad students and potential employees.
Go, Big Red!
9
Roosevelt Island in the East River is just across from Long Island City where Cornell is building its Tech Campus which opened phase 1 on September 13, 2017. I believe that many engineering and comp-sci graduate students will be located on Roosevelt Island. Amazon would find that to be a plus.
8
The fact that NYC was able to attract Amazon in spite of having high taxes and offering no tax breaks just shows that Amazon cares more about infrastructure (like access to mass transit which was one of their core requirements when they began the HQ2 search) rather than low taxes or tax breaks.
8
@Mrunal
No tax breaks? Try "hundreds of millions." From the article you commented on:
"Amazon executives met two weeks ago with Gov. Andrew M. Cuomo in the governor’s Manhattan office, said one of the people briefed on the process, adding that the state had offered potentially hundreds of millions of dollars in subsidies."
5
There is no such thing as a company having a second HQ. By its very nature a Head Quarters must be singular. Its all just a marketing and PR rouse to have the tax payer donate even more money to one of the world's wealthiest companies.
10
@Rob Campbell So if "HQ" does not stand for "Headquarters" . . . I can think of but one other body part it can apply to.
1
Honestly, overall these is very bad news for people living -renting- in NYC and particularly Western Queens. For people that rent and have their lives in the neighbouring areas (Astoria, Sunnyside, Woodsise, Greenpoint, etc..) it is terrifying.
15
@Simon P, Why? 25,000 new high paying jobs sounds great. Neighboring homeowers will see their home values rise, and 70% of NYC renters are stabilized and non-market.
1
My thoughts and prayers are with the people of Arlington and Long Island City.
11
@Ellen The people of Arlington have had their prayers answered. Can't speak for LIC.
2
Ours from LIC also
Crystal City? Lots of office space, but no ambiance... I used to go there for meetings back in the 1990s and whenever the bus dropped me off I'd always felt like I was on the set of the old Star Trek series, in a dystopian city on a planet ravaged by war, with most of the people dead but the buildings intact.
But who am I to complain? I just bought a gorgeous townhome near Ashburn, about 30 minutes from Crystal city. I suspect its value will go up considerably once those Amazon employees come looking for places to live.
I also will be submitting a resume to Amazon. I'm retiring soon after a 45 year career with the intelligence community. Surely Amazon can use someone with my background.
4
@Frank J Haydn I'm sure Amazon will improve the ambience dramatically. It was essentially a government complex, so how much ambience could you expect?
OTOH, if you can get from Ashburn to CC in 30 minutes you must have a helicopter.
9
@Stratman
Correction: 30 minutes without traffic, or at 5:00 am. Otherwise its a nightmare.
1
@Frank J Haydn
I am currently on the west side of Crystal City. I entered “Ashburn” in Maps and it calculated 34 miles. There is no way you could get here in 30 minutes with zero traffic.
1
Well what do you know? Did Jeff Bezos finally realize the damage his greed is causing?
Seattle has become nearly unlivable for average people because of the untaxed wealth of tech industry supposed titans. The homeless problem is because the insatiably greedy members of the real estate complex have put them out of their homes. The surrounding areas are no better.
It's high time cities and towns make sure these "job creators" are required to put something back into the societies they have such an impact on.
12
For NYC to be the leader in the 21st century economy it must be a leader in tech. An Amazon HQ in NYC helps ensure such status.
While I get that it’s cheaper, if I were the richest man in the world I’d plant my flag (HQ) in Manhattan. Seems like there’s plenty supply of new world-class office space in World Financial and Hudson Yards.
9
@Josh
San Francisco is the leader in the 21st century economy, by light years. That's nowhere near changing.
2
Along with an extremely tight housing market that's driven middle class folks out.
1
@JustInsideBeltway, I think you mean San Jose. None of the 10 largest tech companies are even within 30 miles of SF. But NYC is the global capital because it's dominant in almost all economic sectors.
2
Well, there goes the already insufferablly jammed beltway in DC.
And I own rentals in DC, so I stand to benefit from it, but I still don’t want Amazon this close to the District. Why didn’t they put it on the purple line (north east of DC), so they can draw from both DC and Baltimore, or somewhere similar?
Or Atlanta?
4
@Kevin First, locating in anywhere on the budding disaster known as the Purple Line would place it in Maryland, a high-tax, over-regulated state that never met another tax or regulation it didn't like. And millennials and i-Gens have no interest in living in distant Maryland suburbs crossed by the Purple Line (if it's ever finished). They want to be where the action is, and that means DC and Arlington.
1
I agree with others that these are unfortunate, unimaginative choices. Amazon could have done so much to help areas that really need it. Instead they will make two already overwhelmed areas even more challenging for non-tech residents.
I'm certainly relieved Boston isn't one of the choices and as a former NYer who left largely because of the subways, congestion and noise, I'm sorry for NYC that LIC looks to be one of the choices.
11
A major presence by Amazon in Long Island City would serve as a major catalyst in the 21st Century transformation of the communities along NYC's East River and benefit the region as a whole. The LIC area will be hard pressed to accommodate any added vehicular traffic, so any projects need to be weighted towards mass transit options in order to make a move like this viable. It will require a major investment by NYS and NYC in infrastructure and transportation improvements; but the location and potential to expand existing transportation right of ways and services - rail, subway, ferry, and bike make Long Island City an excellent choice. The #7 and G Subway lines would require further upgrades to support the added traffic in and out of the area - and communities in Brooklyn & Queens along those subway lines will benefit economically from this. Communities in Nassau and (to a lesser extent) Suffolk County that are in close proximity to LIRR stations would see some immediate benefits as well through expanded rail service in and out of Queens. Economies in Nassau & Suffolk, as well as the outlying parts of Brooklyn and Queens, would enjoy further benefits in secondary or tertiary ways down the road. All in all, I view anything that can help draw a stronger talent pool of workers across the East River to Brooklyn & Queens as a good thing for the Long Island's boroughs and counties. The pros far outweigh any cons in my opinion.
10
@TonyC Oh, and where does the money come from when Cuomo just gave them hundreds of millions of dollars of tax breaks? You are smoking something funny if you think this will be a catalyst for anything other than additional crowding, delays and un-affordable living costs.
1
Mr. Cuomo again validates why so many of us, including this native New Yorker, supported Cynthia Nixon. State government handouts to a fantastically wealthy corporate behemoth that can barely stomach the paying of a living wage to many of its workers? And more congestion in Queens as frosting on the cake. When the 59th Street Bridge and Midtown tunnel devolve into perennial parking lots, will Amazon step up? Doubtful.
19
Ah so, NY and DC. That makes sense for a company like Amazon. I hope all those other cities learned not to offer to throw themselves and their taxpayers under the bus for some never to be realized - even if Amazon came - benefits.
11
@Bjh They're not moving to DC. It's Virginia (the Crystal City in Arlington County to be precise). There's a world of difference between the housing, crime, tax rate and regulatory worlds of DC and VA.
1
Amazon has learned a lesson from another Washington company, Boeing. By splitting up your locations, you can have different localities compete against one another to offer tax incentives, and pay the workers less by threatening to move jobs.
15
I really wish Amazon would stay clear of NYC and ditto DC suburb. We already have enough congestion, overcrowded public transit, unaffordable housing and certainly do not need Amazon to come in and displace more people already suffering from being gentrified by the financial sector. Why can't Amazon go and help redevelop other great urban settings where settling their headquarter can actually help people living there, rather than lure the able ones out of there while displacing more people out of LIC? Haven't we learned from SF & Seattle? Already my neighborhood priced out all my old neighbors with Google moving. Nobody needs the downgrading of quality of life once high paying hipsters move in. So unfortunate.
30
@BB I lived in Arlington, VA. 40 years ago, and thought that Crystal City was sterile and overbuilt. I can imagine what it's like now, and what it will be like if Amazon sets up a HQ there.
2
@Bob Rossi It's sterile and pretty much a wasteland since much of it was vacated by the Fed government. Amazon will undoubtedly improve it radically.
2
Who wants to move to some desolate location in the middle of nowhere? Certainly not young techies.
2
I could not be happier that they are not coming to Boston. We already have plenty of Amazon people here. We do not need to give away anything to get good jobs and we are already in a housing crisis.
14
@Colleen M
That's how most of us feel in Tacoma WA too! Incentive packages that bleed the taxpayers, low wages, and massive congestion - I remember living in DC in the 90's and traffic was insane then and housing and rent prices were going through the roof! Just makes no sense.....
6
@Colleen M - I totally agree!
Be careful what you wish for. I know plenty of people with good paying jobs in Silicon Valley who live in motor homes because they can't afford rent will never own a home, except for a motor home.
12
New York City is the greatest city in the country and has the greatest people in the country. We have every ethnicity and religion and we all get along. We have the BEST of everything: education, medicine, entertainment, sports, dining, so it is fitting that Amazon would want to be here.
14
@Zenster certainly not the best of public transport though
3
@Al sure it does in comparison to other American Cities.
3
Out here in or near Silicon Valley (Santa Clara county, California), What the most innovation is these days is, in improving construction technology: the ease of ‘popping’ up newer buildings that have the fancy widgets built into them (that may or may not be occupied), and then 10 years later tearing them down again and start over anew. Witness this on the highway 101 corridor that goes from Palo Alto to San jose. An almost continuous cycle of (housing) boom, (economy) bust, et cetera and so fourth . I don’t know if this may be More alluring to Jeff, but I think not. It’s more like just another contributing factor for EOW to me,
Winning the Amazon HQ is like winning the Olympic Games; the localities may not recoup their costs. I think the best result is to come in second, so the locality gets praise and high profile without the actual cost of winning.
21
@Yeah Excellent comparison. Boston was wise enough to jettison its Olympic bid, and now it looks like they lost/won on this.
4
Not sure I would characterize Crystal City as a Washington Suburb. While it's true you would have to cross a bridge to get to the actual District of Columbia... I'd consider Crystal City well within the central DC Metro. The L'Enfant 1791 plan didn't pay much attention to the VA side of the Potomac. However, Crystal City sits just a short distance SW across the river from the The Monument to Washington which was one of the three central features in the L'Enfant plan. A half century ago you could maybe characterize the area as a suburb... now it would be a misnomer.
11
I am I the only one who thinks these were the locations chosen long ago and the whole song and dance was an effort to get people talking about Amazon and extract as much tax support from their preferred and already chosen locations.
28
Does Amazon or Bezos plan on pitching in with the subway or do they expect the little people who have to work for a paycheck for a living to have it deducted while they get exclusive access rides to campus?
18
Amazon is a technology company. Technology companies’ lifeblood is access to a highly-educated workforce, which relies on a steady-supply of new college graduates. Culture and lifestyle are important to that demographic. That includes tolerating (if not welcoming) people of all cultures, races, and religions, not dictating morality (sexual orientation, reproductive decisions), rational laws concerning military-style firearms, equal access to the ballot. This is not kumbaya, it’s about business decisions. Each state’s citizenry (and their elected officials) get to define the culture and lifestyle they want to sustain and/or change. Make no mistake however, that like all decisions, consequences will follow.
7
I can understand the choice in Queens, but what's up with the Arlington, VA decision? That would seem to be a reasonable choice for a defense contractor. But a retailer? It seems to be yet another weird connection between Amazon and the DoD. And what's up with the camouflage paint job on their proposed Amazon headquarters in Crystal City?
2
@W, isn't Amazon a major defense contractor these days, competing for huge telecommunications & cloud storage contracts? Plus, this region almost certainly has more high tech professionals with clearances than pretty much anywhere in the US, Silicon Valley and Seattle included (when you consider clearances). And Crystal City is practically walking distance to National Airport.
That said, our traffic is already miserable and the cost of living and housing around here is high enough without Amazon. It'll be a lot worse when they get here.
6
@W The particular Arlington location is a large complex known as Crystal City. It's directly across the Potomac from DC, adjacent to Reagan National Airport, with 100 miles of at least a dozen major universities from UVA to UMD College Park and the rest of the UMD system, as well as GW, Georgetown, George Mason, American, Catholic, etc. Make it 200 miles and you reel in William & Mary, Penn, Temple, Villanova and UNC and Duke. Arlington is a magnet for millennials and I-gens, as is DC itself, which is rapidly gentrifying. Virginia is also a relatively low-tax, low-regulatory state. What's not to like if you're Amazon?
4
@W
At its core, Amazon is an IT and big-data company, not a retailer.
8
Is it me or does "Long Island City of Queens" sound clumsy but maybe also incorrect if it's specifically meant to the reference LIC? I would think it should read "Queens Borough neighborhood of Long Island City" seeing as the latter is a part of the former.
Great news for Seattle. Think about it.
3
Yes we are thinking about it here in New York City - progressive, inclusive with reasonable gun control- and we love it!
Oh my, we’re so tired of winning :-)
2
@Steven Sky high cost of living, un affordable housing, crime, filth, beggars, corrupt state and local government, gentrification. Yup, I'm thinking about it.
1
it seems odd that Amazon would select locations that are already have traffic woes and a high cost of living. As we saw in Seattle, Amazon adds joba, but alao creates a lor of challenges. I just came back from Seattle.. dirty, congested and tents and garbage everywhere. It made me sad to see.
14
@m cummi s Also created a lot of homeless and high housing costs
I am happy they are picking Long Island City.... tech jobs will diversify the job market a bit more... some people can stay in NY and not have to move to seattle and silicon valley.
Pressure will come for better subways and yes, even fix the bridges. Driving to Long Island will be pretty bad until they do... Airport will have to become first class hub.
Great for Cornell Tech University!
10
@Mary Oh great, now people can commute even further up the Hudson Valley to live and work Downstate. Why doesn't New York ever get it?
2
@Mary As another writer said, Seattle is congested, dirty with garbage and tents everywhere. That is what Amazon will do for Washington. But I guess they want to be bear the Pentagon.
2
Now NIMBYism has spread to white collar office jobs in your backyard?
Amazon's presence will only help the community, with an influx of knowledge workers who will pay state and city taxes and provide a general economic boost.
Is it worth special incentives and subsidies?--that is arguable for sure. But seems like a lot of commenters are just complaining about gentrification.
Now we all want cheaper rents because its too darn high. But if we want lower housing prices, we need to build more housing. That is the simple fact. You can't rent-regulate your way to countervailing the forces of aggregate supply and demand.
17
@Mmm This argument that building more housing is the solution to rising rents is ridiculous. The rents are rising because landlords want want more money because demand is going up! Do you really believe building more $700,000 condos is going to lower rent? These new homes that are supposedly the solution are never affordable and always sell at market price.
We have this problem in California and oftentimes there is no place to put these supposed panacea of new homes in dense urban areas.
2
@David Of course I believe building more condos will lower rents. If you have a static supply of something and an increasing population with increasing incomes what do you think is going to happen?
You have to build more to house more (or you could make each apartment fit more people as many people do in the city by having roommates or putting up a temporary wall).
See the recent experience in Seattle--the "crane capital" of the U.S.
https://www.seattletimes.com/business/real-estate/construction-boom-means-lots-of-empty-apartments-even-some-cheaper-rents/
2
@Mmm: there is no affordable land in a reasonable distance from NYC (or Queens or Long Island City for that matter) to build affordable housing on.
High priced high rises? sure. Affordable housing? NADA.
The entire greater NYC region is MAXXED OUT.
"“I’ll change my name to Amazon Cuomo if that’s what it takes,” Governor Cuomo said."
Pathetic.
And the NY voters are about to elect this corrupt politician, who openly represents corporate greed, to another four years.
21
Well, we in New York City are digging it!
Our progressive, inclusive, well educated, gun controlled city is so tired of winning :-)
1
It’s great to see that cities will open up the chest to spend on infrastructure when Bezos might show up, but they won’t do it for the rest of us slobs who have been relying on it day in and day out for our entire lives. Infrastructure that Amazon will disproportionately NOT fund via the tax incentives the company will likely get on top of everything else.
19
...and Austin breathes a sigh of relief.
20
Wow, that's really thinking outside of the box Amazon! Disgusted.
13
Talk about maximizing Amazon's return. 2 HQs mean two subsidy packages. If $7-8 billion is the amount of some reported packages being offers, then is Amazon lining up to collect twice the subsidy?
10
Well if your a Republican who supported the trillion dollar welfare tax cut that the GOP just gave away to hedge fund managers and real estate developers out of the pocket of working people of this country.
You should love this -
looks like chump change compared to the GOP taxpayer hand out.
4
How can Amazon even conceive that these two high priced locals are someplace that Millennials and Generation Z would want to and can afford to work. With the ability to “write code” anywhere why did Amazon choose two hugely congested cities with limited recreational amenities. I can not imagine people in Seattle will to make the transfer. Quality of life... Forget about it!!
9
@Sailorgirl, NYC and DC are almost certainly the two most desirable North American cities for young, educated professionals. There are plenty of recreational opportunities and congestion isn't an issue if you live close to work.
The vast majority of Amazon employees do not "write code" and coders want to be in these cities too. Yes, you can write code from rural Bolivia but that doesn't mean it's a good place to attract talent.
9
@Osito "NYC and DC are almost certainly the two most desirable North American cities for young, educated professionals."
Maybe NY is, but certainly not DC. Boston, for example, has it beat by a mile. And this is coming from someone who moved out of Boston because of the congestion.
3
I get VA, it's cheap with a lot of land but Queens? The cost of living is high (real estate taxes are MUCH higher than here in Boston) and the LIE is a nightmare. Admit it New Yorkers, it isn't about all that young talent that loves NYC. Cuomo promised Amazon the moon.
2
@Kathleen Kourian Actually, the area of VA chosen by Amazon is neither cheap nor does it have a lot of open land. Crystal City is directly across the Potomac from DC and adjacent to Washington National Reagan airport. It's two miles from the Pentagon.
12
@Stratman
Exactly....Arlington, VA is basically to DC what Queens is to Manhattan. There are just rivers dividing their respective locations (Potomac and East).
14
@Stratman
You last sentence leads me to believe that defense related work will be an increasing part of the pie for Amazon (and to think it started with delivering books).
2
What a disappointment! Newark would have been so much better for everyone. As if Long Island City needs more people, tall buildings and congestion. And two rivers with toll bridges to cross to get to the "mainland." And the L train?!?! Hard to see the quality of life aspect.
11
Amazon gets tax incentives and other goodies like possibly lower utility rates. The employees do not.
This when corporations are already paying a historically smaller percentage of tax revenues. More of the burden has shifted from corporations to citizens. That's without the GOP's recent tax cut.
The winners may very well be those that don't get the Amazon campuses. No point in winning a race to the bottom.
Long Island City, really? With all the articles we read about the failures of NYC's subway system, and the increasingly unaffordable cost of living in the Big Apple?
A hundred grand doesn't go that far in NYC after taxes and rent . . .
14
I am disappointed. Personally, I think going to West Va. and employing former miners and their families or, Ohio where the drug crisis is rampant and people need jobs, would have done more for our nation. He would still make money.
7
@erin That sounds nice but W. Va. workers does not offer the skilled workforce for Amazon's corporate office nor does the state have the infrastructure to sustain Amazon's needs.
11
I'm glad my city didn't make the cut. we already have enough affordable housing issues with all the gentrification. Having Amazon HQ would only magnify it. I've read all about Seattle. No thank you.
11
@Lola PHL is a lovely city. Being a city I love to visit, I am happy there will be no Amazon to destroy it. You are lucky.
2
BRILLIANT!
No indication that either site has reduced its inducement package. That means that Amazon gets two packages of tax benefits for the same number of workers. In fact, it suggests that Amazon will play the two cities against each other to get even more!
People questioned whether the benefits made sense for 50K jobs. That guarantees that they don't make sense for 25K jobs.
11
The 7 train is already dangerously crowded and constantly delayed/not running at all. My commute to work, which should only take half an hour, takes double that now. So how is the 7 train going to handle all these new workers? And will I be priced out of the Sunnyside neighborhood?
11
If you don’t own, start thinking about where you want to move.
2
Personally, I’m glad this splitting of the headquarters might give Seattle traffic and housing costs a break. I’ve seen what Amazon growth has done to Seattle since at least 2006, when my son started college there. Seattle is a lovely place in many ways, but Amazon growth has exacerbated civic issues there.
6
@Jane So you'd prefer they vacate the city and go elsewhere?
2
@Stratman
If Amazon continues to grow just in Seattle it will have a detrimental effect. Thankfully, Seattle-based Amazon employees will be offered the chance to relocate to the new campuses. Hopefully that might help Seattle a bit. (Of course I don’t expect Seattle employees just to “go elsewhere.”) Growth in many places is often celebrated but there’s usually a downside. Though I don’t live in Seattle, I appreciate its many attributes and new amenities but over time I have seen the city negatively impacted by tech (though not necessarily for Amazon and other tech employees).
3
@Jane You didn't answer the question: would you prefer them to vacate the city?
My advice. It should have been located in the Bronx. The best option now for the workforce is to live in the North/East Bronx and have Amazon fund a subway line from E149st (2, 5 and 6) to Astoria directly.
7
I really didn't need another reason not to vote for Cuomo today, but thanks anyway. This does nothing to raise the standard of living for 99.9% of New Yorkers. We should be trying to figure out how to create a vital middle class from the City's abundant poor. Instead, Cuomo has embarked on a full-employment program for coders. Who's next, sous chefs?
8
@stan continople I'm a former line cook and sous chef. I worked in the culinary field for about 15 years living on the low wages that field pays. I now have a masters in computer science and have more than doubled the salary of my best year of cooking. Nothing is better for the middle class than education and jobs that pay great salaries. Amazon will create thousands of well paying jobs.
3
@stan continople The vital middle class doesn't vote for Cuomo. He clearly is pandering to his base. City dwelling, upper class liberals.
In the end, I'm really glad Austin chose not to offer any financial incentives to Amazon. Clearly Amazon was shopping around for the best public welfare to fund additional office space for normal operations.
If any company wants to move to Austin, great. However, I'm not paying for you to do it. There are plenty of great reasons to operate here without robbing the public coffers.
17
A large argument against going to the NYC/DC area are the taxes.
That is true, but Amazon will not be paying taxes and getting free handouts from these cities. It is also rich watching diehard blue states roll the carpet out just like a Texas or South Dakota would. Bezos is a liberal. He should be paying 'his fair share', but as we see many times, policy doesn't really match values.
It will be mostly the workers making $150k and living lower-middle class being New Yawkers.
5
@Scott Virginia, which is where Amazon is going in the "DC area" is a low-tax, low-regulation region compared to NYC, DC itself, or even MD (on the other side of DC). Northern Virginia is a booming information tech area, and there are a dozen excellent school and universities within a 100 miles.
4
@Scott 150k still goes a long way here, friend.
3
In my city the Cleveland Clinic was given a tax Exemption ...Retroactively. Now we owe it 2 million dollars and are out the 400K that would have helped to pay for services. Today my city is floating a huge property tax levy for voters' consideration, to pay for ...guess what. That non aggression agreement should be scaled and made federal law, though it doesn't sound like it did anything but spoon feed a PR stunt to muffle some of the resistance. These already profitable companies extorting jobs out of public officials who just embarrass and fall all over themselves to make it seem like they're creating jobs to get reelected just sell out the tax payers. Its not as if those jobs weren't going to be created somewhere w/o the Bribe. This will just result in bonuses and raises at the top and more rockets for Bezos to play with. Lets get into the details of how and what gets donated to Amazon out of the public treasury. Don't be scared.
5
@Ratza Fratza Comparing the Cleveland Clinic to Amazon is silly. CC isn't in the same universe as Amazon.
3
@Stratman: OF COURSE it is smaller than Amazon -- what IS NOT smaller? but as a hospital chain, Cleveland Clinic is among the largest in the nation and it utterly dominates Cleveland.
The PRINCIPAL is the same, even if the scale is different.
1
While Amazon will benefit from tax incentives, their employees won't. Interesting that, despite Republicans claim that low taxes are the key to growth, Amazon picked a high tax state like NY. Apparently, solid infrastructure and access to a skilled, educated talent pool is of greater importance.
17
Newark would've been a great choice. It's on top of an airport, the NE Corridor for Amtrak, and is an easy commute from Manhattan. It's also way cheaper. But, I guess in the end they figured out they'd still have a hard time getting people away from Brooklyn and Manhattan. Another reminder that this wasn't about Amazon revitalizing anything, it was pure self-interest. The next time this happens, cities, remember this!
17
@purpledog It would have been a great choice for Newark, but getting millennials and I-gens to live in a crime-ridden place like that would have been akin to tilting at windmills.
1
@purpledog. Yes, Amazon would have a problem getting an educated workforce away from Manhattan and Brooklyn.
1
Offering a company tax breaks like Amazon,who is ravaging local retail,seems almost obscene.
28
@Verlin Swarey
No “almost” necessary.
3
A disappointing choice. LIC hardly needs more congestion or high-priced real estate. This was a real lost opportunity to select a city that would welcome their presence. I have to wonder if they ever seriously considered cities like Newark that could have benefitted from corporate investment.
13
@Anne
The article is silent on housing, while it mentions $100,000 jobs. Unfortunately the quality and choices of housing in Newark as well as many other competing cities can not match NYC and its Nothern suburbs.
The conjection of LIC is being aggravated by the competition between Cuomo and De Blasio for a national profile. Southern Westchester cities like Mount Vernon, Yonkers and New Rochelle are under developed compared to Hoboken and the Jersey City. There is a hardly used hardly know rail line coming out of Penn Station 34 Street goes into the heart of LIC then over to Hunts Point passing COOP City, City Island and Pelham into New Rochelle.
1
Let’s hope that Amazon will manage to get the governor to put pressure on PANYNJ to lift the perimeter rule at LaGuardia airport, at least for the transcon flights.
1
"the future of cities revolves around public transit, biking and walking. "
Ya, in your Blade Runner dreams maybe ?
PS - I'm sure the LI City planners are even now sharpening their slide rulers for the new Transit hubs, subway systems and overdue improvements. Sure
They are just going to stuff it all in and let the local population endure.
6
All I can say is thank god they didn't pick my beautiful state!
6
Do we dare ask who will lead the Eastern headquarters and who will lead the Western headquarters? And is Mr. Bezos moving to Washington DC?
2
@terence He already has a place here. He bought the old Textile Museum in Kalorama off Connecticut Ave. for something like $23 million.
1
That's not the wind you hear, it's every renter in the Boston area breathing a huge sigh of relief...
25
One of the most valuable companies in the world finds yet another way to make money - rake in the tax incentives by having cities compete an over-hyped 'second headquarters.' Amazon somehow found a way to get huge tax breaks for doing something it likely needed to do anyway (increasing office space capacity in two locations where they already have many employees). Yet many people are celebrating this as a huge win for their communities. Amazing.
14
This only means that Amazon can soak two metros instead of just one. Nice move.
18
@Tracy Mohr How is bringing in 50,000 jobs that pay an average of $100K annually "soaking" a metro area?
7
@Stratman - Writing from Seattle here where we've been soaked by having our City Council cave to Amazon's demands time and again and insanely rising rents and real estate prices (not to mention every other price).
In short, more jobs coming in is fine but if the government is shooting itself in the foot by eliminating taxes on the giant corporation that is the highest valued company ever (at moments, and second highest at others), then that city/county/state is being soaked for a lot of revenue that could be used by us all.
And no, the taxes on the new employees do NOT make up for that. And yes, taxes are a good thing, to a point. So is government.
17
@axis42 Amazon pays plenty in both state and local taxes, as do their employees. Just because they fought your ridiculous head tax and won is no reason to roll up the welcome mat. Maybe Seattle voters should find a way to make Amazon vacate the city so that its residents can live the bucolic life they think will result.
2
@Mitch I
The primary requirement for Amazon (a technology company) is a LARGE population of college-educated engineers and technology professionals from which to draw. NYC and DC make perfect sense. If salaries and infrastructure were the primary concern for a technology company, Silicon Valley and Boston would still be fruit farms.
5
@Don
If Amazon is a technology company then all businesses are technology companies.
Never been a fruit farm here in Boston. Used to graze cows on the Boston Common. It is legal to do so today, if I remember, but transporting the cows there is a whole other problem.
2
@Ratza Fratza Most of Amazon's profits actually come from its Amazon Web Services division. So it is indeed a technology company. It also uses extremely sophisticated technology to operate its online retail site and to manage the logistics of supply and deliver in a way no other retailer has come close to doing. So, yes, it's very much a tech company.
2
What about Detroit? What about anywhere but these already prosperous cities that don't really need these jobs? What a lost opportunity.
17
@KR It's a lost opportunity for places like Detroit and Newark, but why would any sane company trying to attract the best and brightest locate in a city like either of those. It flies in the face of logic. Besides, isn't government the answer? Detroit seems to have thought so for years...
1
@KR What about Detroit? What exactly does Detroit bring to the party? I've lived in Detroit. Left in 1978 and never looked backed. Prosperous cities are prosperous for a reason. Here is just one that you car enthusiasts seem to ignore:
Long Island City is served by 8 subway lines, 13 bus lines, the East River Ferry, the Long Island Railroad, two bridges and a tunnel linking it with Manhattan. It’s also got quick access to LaGuardia and John F. Kennedy International airports.
1
Welcome to the United States of Amazon!
7
I have the opportunity to work with mid-level Amazon executive staff, and wouldn't wish those jobs on anyone.
10
In 1980 regulators required American Electric Power to move its headquarters from Manhattan to central Ohio as part of its deal to acquire Columbus and Southern Electric. The reason was that it seemed unfair for Ohioans to pay Manhattan salaries for engineering and administration. I joined the company in 1983 and informally asked several of the former Manhattan employees what they thought about the move. They all said they enjoyed living in Columbus and were happy to have made the move. So the move benefited everyone.
With Amazon's move to Arlington and Queens, people throughout the country will be paying a premium for inflated salaries and infrastructure.
5
@Mitch I.
Then maybe people wil start buying brick and mortar again and spur employment in local economies. But as a New Yorker, I don’t know what to think. Seems like one of the biggest problems we have here are all of the trust fund hipsters moving here from Ohio driving out mom and pop businesses for chain coffee shops. Maybe if Ohio was so great, half of them might move back there.
4
@Patrick
"Maybe people will start buying brick and mortar again" Its occurred to me Amazon's success comes at the expense of all those brick and mortar bankruptsies. A sideways benefit to the economy. If buying power were stoked via a Demand Side tax break, now that would be a shot in the arm moreso than the bribe Trump snuck past to the bribeable to make it sound like "Everybodies" getting a tax break. Billionaires will buy more foreign made yachts and wine. Cheap transparent stunt.
What a great "bait-and-switch" as my father used to say.
Cities bid on this project based on the number of jobs, future tax revenue and the promise of growth. Now those numbers are effectively cut in half. I sincerely hope the tax abatements and other give-aways are altered accordingly. But of course they won't be - sly move on Own-the World Bezos' part.
My sincere condolences to the cities who win this blight. Hopefully the continued lack of infrastructure will protect WV from such corporate degradation and allow it to remain forever "Wild and Wonderful". I have no desire to see her become another Seattle - traffic clogged and toney.
Now if we can just stop the dang rock wool plant from moving in and polluting!
9
Very funny - you right! who needs progress or real, high income jobs and education?
Guess progressive, inclusive cities with gun control like NYC will just have deal with Amazon and it’s 100s of millions of dollars of economic growth.
Good luck in WV - at least you have Trump rallies to keep you distracted and entertained!
12
@Steven
Republicans , always so bribeabl willing to sell out a majority for a few.
@B Dawson
Good analysis! You'd be getting that infrastructure just in time to be fiscally incapable of maintaining it. Just get back to providing good food for your countrymen. I wake up everyday thinking we should revert to an agriculturally sound society. A funny thought: China will rush ahead in the clean energy race because they never had the infrastructure of car culture, and then, of course, don't have to protect it. Be true to YOU, W.V.
good luck New York and Virginia, my town is already congested beyond belief and has astronomical housing costs and I'm glad Amazon won't be coming to exacerbate both problems. been to Seattle lately? who would want to replicate that mess...
10
@poins - a tech complex in Queens employing 25,000 people is going to be meaningless to NYC in terms of infrastructure, congestion etc. Won't even register.
6
Thanks but we’re all good in NYC! No
Problems here!
No shortage of highly skilled workers thanks to our strong public schools, or space in Long Island City thank to our progressive water front redevelopment programs started with Mike Bloomberg. And thanks also to Mike Bloomberg for pushing for a huge computer science center right next to Long Island City while he was Mayor.
The Cornell Tech campus spans 12 acres on Roosevelt Island, including two acres of public open space with spectacular views of Manhattan ...
Guess when your city, NYC, is progressive, inclusive with strong gun controls, you just have to learn to live with progress and great companies wanting to be here?
9
@Henry B
Not so. The 7 train is already close to functional capacity, the most congested train the the subway (with Cuomo’s idiotic LGA Airtrain link to Willets Point yet to be added), the street congestion has already reduced bus traffic to a crawl. Street congestion? Ugh. The construction in Queens plaza already has choked traffic in a one mile radius.
3
Re: LIC ... How about the effect of increasing thousands of highly educated, highly compensated professionals dealing with our subway system?
Maybe the presence of these elites will encourage more investment in infrastructure.
13
@Inconvenient Ideas
Infrastructure needs will be realized in the form of a Wall south of Texas. How about some neon lights ?
@Inconvenient Ideas
Amazon will probably be recruiting heavily from NYU, Columbia, and Cornell-Tech, so the actual change in people will be much smaller than the headline jobs figure. Beyond that, there are a number of subways that go to Long Island City (7, G, F, E, M, N, R, & W). Employees will have plenty of options from which to commute. This isn't a Williamsburg L-Train situation. I'd also suggest that a lot of these employees will live in LIC and simply walk/bike to work.
The reason why I always felt New York City made the most sense was because we're one of a handful of cities (at most) where Amazon can bring this type of development without creating a massive earthquake. The political/public backlash here just won't be as great as it would be in a smaller city. Unless you live in LIC or right nearby, this probably won't affect you at all.
2
I thought public transportation was going to be an important factor in the decision. NYCs is dismal. Did Cuomo make promises about the G/7 train, or was there something else I missed? Or did they decide to just forge ahead despite that?
Don't get me wrong, I'm a NYer whose excited to have Amazon here. I'm just hoping that some of the strings attached included Cuomo making commitments for the public transport system. I could care less if he changes his name.
12
@JakeP, NYC has, by far, the best public transit in the U.S. 70% of daily U.S. rail passengers are in the NYC metro. The subway has 15x the ridership of the #2 U.S. system. The subway has more stations, track mileage and train car capacity than any system on earth.
Yes, the system is overburdened, underfunded and constantly aggravating, but it has no (domestic) equal.
3
I find it ironic that Cuomo diverted MTA subway funding to save upstate ski resorts, but then thinks it'll be easy peesy to bolt in 20,000+ tech jobs into LI City. The 7 train is already bursting. I do not think NYC or suburban DC needs this. The Albanys, Pittsburghs, Detroits, and Dallas' could have been great locations that would have spread wealth more systematically through this country.
13
@Eric
Before I retired, I had a reverse commute on the 7 train. Always got a seat both ways. In fact, there were never any standing passengers.
2
@Eric
Maybe Pittsburgh and Detroit but Dallas does not need this. Housing/rental prices continue to significantly go up due to all of the other major companies moving here over the last several years, traffic is a mess and in most locations they say they cannot expand anymore. Everyone says Amazon priced everyone not making 6+ figures out of Seattle why does an average person in Dallas want that?
1
Hate to tell you NYC & DC, the employees Amazon wants to hire already live in your city, neighborhood, building, house or apartment. How are you going to know the several thousand "new" people Amazon attracts to DC or NYC from those already there?
If Amazon wanted to dump 20K+ suburban engineers in one spot they would have picked Boise, Calgary or Newark.
10
@Anne - The opening of 25,000 well paying tech and tech management jobs is going to create wage pressure on all of the other tech jobs in the area which is a positive for those workers. I'm unclear why you think it is important for me to "know" if someone is new to the city or is my neighbor? Huh?
3
Of course, hiring the people already here is the best part of the whole deal.
And if you think they’re going to be paid 20k a year, I want what your smoking.
2
This is Nina Castro:
Why would anyone expect an American billionaire to "share the wealth". I was heartened by the prospect that it might be Newark, but knew that such a choice would be too much work. If you redefine "work". Let the divide widen!
9
Please Amazon, don't come here
8
Thank god not here. Guess I’ll never be able to afford to move back to DC now.
4
Cuomo had nothing to do with it. He No sex his way into it after it was clear that Amazon had already made its desicion. Credit goes to President Trump who's tax policies laid the groundwork for this monumental desicion.
2
Actually Trump tax has undermined New York State - my taxes are going up 10s of thousands of dollars next year thanks to this GOP corporate welfare tax cut. Trump has no effect on NYC what so ever, thank God. Except as an embarrassment to the City.
The reason Amazon is here is because we are progressive, inclusive, with strong gun controls and in part thanks to Mayor Bloomberg pushing for the Cornell tech center.
The Cornell Tech campus spans 12 acres on Roosevelt Island, including two acres of public open space with spectacular views of Manhattan ...
3
Obviously this is also an ego thing. The real AMAZON HQ will always be in Seattle but soon will be the boss of DC and NYC (two most famous cities in the world and also Trump territory).
3
@rudolf
Are they declaring their profits in Seattle or shipping the off to Ireland like Apple?
@rudolf
I beg to differ. New York City and Washington, DC, are most emphatically not Trump territory. Ninety-three percent of voters in the District of Columbia voted for Hillary Clinton. She also won Maryland and Virginia. The results were similar in New York City and New York state.
5
Say good bye to the manufacturing district in LIC for good.
8
I've read that Bezos has been looking at locations with smart people and public transportation. Well, we know most of the smart people in America live on the east and west coasts. And the D.C, Maryland, Virginia transit system looks like "gold" compared to New York City's, which really belongs in a museum.
Maybe "Empty-suit Andy" Cuomo promised Jeff that he'll really fix the subway system. Of course that will require raising tolls to $20 on the Verrazano Narrows Bridge and every other artery.
If so, be prepared for an endless barrage of lies from Andy.
4
@george eliot
DC METRO may look like "gold" compared to NYC to someone living in Annapolis but I've lived in DC & No.
VA for 30 yrs and I WISH we had a world class functioning subway. We're not even close.
3
Housing costs in Washington and its close in suburbs are already sky high. Many people are priced out of housing in Arlington County, which is just across the Potomac from Washington. Adding 25,000 high income employees and their families will only make the situation worse. The Blue Line, the Metro line that serves Crystal City is already overcrowded. The roads and bridges are a nightmare in rush hour. This will be a mixed blessing at best for the Washington area.
10
@Paula 029 Crystal City is actually on the Yellow line, which is less crowded but we get your point.
Amazon likely expects most people will take Metro or bike to work (this area is big for that remember) vs. driving. Many new hires are fresh out of school and prefer living without a car.
Excellent news! The rents and real estate prices have not nearly been high enough at this time to force out that pesky middle class like they have in that bastion of tech hipness, San Francisco.
And I can’t wait for the private busses shuttling the techies who wouldn’t be caught dead in the subways with the unwashed masses to further add to the traffic.
Soon, us New Yorkers will be treated to the same fun they have in SF, like serving and bussing your own table in a restaurant, because restaurant workers can’t afford to live there.
New York is saved.
34
@Evan Amazon doesn't provide typical tech company benefits like private shuttle buses, free food, competent HR departments, decent employee discounts, dignity...Amazon already has 3 offices in NYC and commuting by subway is all any employee there can afford.
10
I am disgusted by this. I will vote against DeBlasio and Cuomo every chance I get. Why?
(1) I live near Astoria, near the 7 train, in a very working class, immigrant neighborhood that I love. It's my home. What is going to happen is the rents are going to increase. Many of my neighbors, including myself, will leave, or will see more of their income eaten up by rent. My wonderful, authentic neighborhood will be destroyed and replaced by some sort of yuppie-town.
(2) It is unfair to local businesses who won't be able to pay the higher rents and who will lose customers due to the demographic changes. It is unfair to competitors to Amazon. It is unfair to brick and mortar stores.
Everyone will say, but how about all the jobs??? Amazon doesn't create jobs. If you buy something from Amazon, you are not buying that thing from somebody else.
(3) Finally, if Cuomo is so interested in helping businesses, how about working to reduce PROPERTY taxes, an expense which truly adversely effects businesses.
I sincerely hope Amazon decides not to come to New York City. I sincerely hope Cuome loses the election.
9
Thank you thank you thank you XY oxoxoxo
Why oh why does this company need tax incentives when it is most likely already avoiding paying its fair share? What's is the company doing with all of its profits? The stock doesn't even pay dividends.
20
This makes me sick to my stomach. I love Sunnyside, it feels like home. Family oriented, diverse, for NYC pretty friendly. Guess I'll just have to enjoy the last year on my lease. Any hope a community organization of any kind can stand a chance to keep from dislocating entire communities?
4
@Lisbeth Yes! Thirty years ago, my mother and another relative, neither of whom had ever done anything activist in their lives, started a determined grass-roots movement with their neighbors to stop the building of a mega-mall in their quiet Brooklyn neighborhood. They handed out flyers door-to-door, visited every local merchant, showed up at every community board meeting, hounded every local politician. Pretty soon they got the attention of both the mayor and the governor. The mall was not built. With social media nowadays, it should be much easier for the community to make its message heard than it was for my mother's effort. Go for it!
7
@Lisbeth NYC at least has rent control, which will help to mitigate the effects on housing. Virginia has none so the impacts on rental housing will be felt immediately.
2
@Lisbeth I live in Sunnyside too. How can I help? I would love to volunteer with you.
1
So they went with the expected and obvious East Coast locations.
Too bad the citizens of all major cities had to see their mayors and governors grovel with tax breaks and subsidies.
This is what happens when regulators fail to do their job and let companies grow into behemoths that concentrate jobs into few locations.
9
For those commentators from outside NYC or Washington Metro who will lament Amazon's likely choices, instead of complaining about "why them?", you must ask yourselves, "why not us?". Amazon, love them or hate them, is a business that moves to where the talent is or where they might want to be. That happens to be in the major urban centers. Nothing against your cities but that's just the way it is, unless you decide to change it.
7
@A. Jubatus
This is Nina Castro:
I moved to NYC and lived there for thirty years. I left a Rust Belt which had been thrown into recession by the oil crisis. I did very well, and returned home to take care of my elderly parent, even as the false economy created by swapping real estate vs. making anything, drove my decision as well. I was one of those best and brightest who left my childhood home of necessity, not because it had done anything "wrong". Glad to be back. It's given me very clear perspective on how raw ambition, vs. native intelligence, could be the real driver for residents of NYC and other such places. And raw ambition often makes people transgressive when it comes to personal wealth vs. over all societal health. Cheers!
4
@A. Jubatus
Because the corporate welfare was better in NY & VA?
It would be hard to ignore New York City, I mean the United Nations headquarters is right across the river. NYC is a large diverse city on the planet. I would not be surprised if they created a bridge or ferry service across the river to Manhattan just for Amazon. Yes, not everyone wants to live in the Seattle area.
2
@K
In case anyone is curious, these company ferries actually do exist.
For example, Goldman Sachs runs an employee ferry from its West Street headquarters downtown across to its Jersey City building.
A bridge won't happen, though.
Amazon will be a mixed blessing wherever it goes. The economic benefits and jobs will be a plus, but it will forever change the character of the communities where it is located, and there will be no going back.
6
50,000 total in two locations is their plan, but their plan, as we know, can change. Are the localities pledged to provide incentives for a plan of 50,000 or a plan of up to 50,000? Is Amazon pledging 25,000 at two, or 40/10, or 48/2, or could they even change and go 50,000 at each?
A possible reason for choosing two locations is to reduce the local impact and the community resistance. Did they just halve the opposition by halving their plan, or did they halve their opposition and potentially double their plan?
I welcome 50,000 at each site.
2
New York and Virginia have an embarrassment of economic riches and it would have been great if Amazon considered other cities that would have benefit immensely like Detroit.
29
How can LIC support this? It’s already over-built with horribly overpriced towering condos and apartment buildings that the trains are already unable to support. I lived along the river in a high-rise a few years ago in LIC before the massive construction boom in the neighborhood. Back then in 2008-2010 the 7 train was horribly overcrowded not to mention the E train as well. The MTA is woefully inadequate to handle 25,000 employees traveling in and out of LIC everyday. This decision will also see housing costs in Queens and Brooklyn skyrocket. Terrible idea. Terrible. Just another reason to move away from this overcrowded and overpriced money pit.
12
Cuomo had nothing to do with it. He nosed his way into it after it was clear that Amazon had already made its desicion. Credit goes to President Trump who's tax policies laid the groundwork for this monumental decision.
@kbnyc
Nonsense. Amazon made its decision on which localities offered more subsidy, i.e. corporate welfare.
3
It's clear to me that congestion, housing costs, and education are not necessarily the chief criteria for this move. But after watching how Foxconn treated Wisconsin residents, maybe it's a good that Amazon not come to Chicago afterall.
7
Sunnyside will be greatly impacted by this. Also, most might be surprised by the extremely poor train service there. The Seven is packed already and is a poor transfer point to Grand Central.
Still, it's a complete surprise to pick LIC and New York, which ultimately is a great choice.
4
Cool. Semi-brilliant PR ploy by Amazon to stir up nationwide interest over the past year, only to actually split the “win” in two and basically staff up spots where they already have a ton of people. And of course, on the coast - because what NY and Washington need are higher costs of living. Unsurprising, uninspired, and a disappointing move.
12
Dear Amazon.
Please DO NOT come to New York City. What this city DEFINITELY DOES NOT NEED are an influx of overpaid, self important tech workers who will drive up real estate and rental housing prices, and reduce the already scarce amount of affordable housing. We’ve seen the damage you have done to San Francisco and the surrounding Bay Area. Please STAY AWAY.
17
@Kevin speak for yourself, yes we need the jobs! This astorian is really hoping that this is true!
1
@Kevin
Nope. These are exactly the types of people the city needs to attract in order to remain competitive moving into the future. The worst thing that could happen to New York would be for the city to fail to diversify as the economy changes. That is precisely how vibrant cities degenerate into ghost towns.
Also, techies are already here. Facebook and Google are building *massive* campuses in Chelsea. Spotify is at the WTC. Dumbo is a tech hub. WeWork, which houses mostly start-ups, is the largest tenant in Manhattan. The city has already accommodated enormous tech-oriented growth.
Lastly, no New Yorker gets to say who can come here and who can't. Everybody is welcome. The city is constantly growing and changing. Yes, some people become better off while some don't. There are ways to help the latter group without putting the brakes on the evolution of the world's most dynamic and resilient city.
2
I so hope Amazon comes to Arlington. It would be great for Crystal City and the region. My welcome mat is out!
4
@John Edelmann
Agreed, sir. Would be nice to see those empty buildings filled with hard working TAX PAYING employees.
3
@John Edelmann Amazon employees might boost ridership and increase the stature of Metro, agreed. But the experience of Seattle suggests that the 800-pound gorilla that is Amazon will squeeze out anyone who now finds the cost of housing ridiculous. I love, love this area, but I am -- very reluctantly -- packing my bags.
1
@Paul P. I understand that Arlington DOES have an issue with empty office space, agreed. And it would be nice to diversify the tax base, again agreed.
However, I am not at all sure that the answer is to drop tens of thousands of people into Arlington and destroy the community. If the problem is too many buildings, fix the buildings. Surely the right solution can't be at the expense of the people who already live here.
But when push comes to shove, this will ultimately be a branch office without actual headquarters visibility. When the cuts and downsizing come, and they will come at some unknown time in the future, the branch offices are cut and closed first. And this is all pretty much independent of any public funds spent to attract the branch office.
2
This is going to decimate the working class in Western Queens. This is not a fulfillment center, this is going to be a headquarters for very highly-paid management. LIC rents are already far above what the average New Yorker can pay, and Sunnyside and Astoria rents are skyrocketing. I may have to leave my home of 16 years.
10
A family member owns an apartment building in Astoria. I sent her this article which I'm sure will make her day. If true an AMZN-HQ-2 in Queens will raise home prices in Queens, which will raise home prices in the Bronx and Brooklyn.
Amazon will soon be opening a distribution facility on the industrial west shore of S.I. It's amazing how quickly the NYCDOT accommodated them by converting Gulf Avenue to a 2-way street. The MTA extended the S40/S90 bus to the facility before it even opened.
5
Bezos wants to be near Washington DC for lobbying purposes but Queens? Housing, bad weather, travel nightmares make that a mystery known only to him.
2
@pb go tell the Lonely Planet guys that selected Q as a prime (new) tourist destination in the world.
5
I got that same 45 minute survey which was supposedly about election issues, but ended up being 30 questions about Amazon in NoVA
1
While it would be great for Amazon to open an office in Long Island City, it’s a shame that the surrounding neighborhoods will be obliterated - Astoria, Woodside, etc will be a shell of their former selves. No one but the rich will be able to live in the area - unless all of the new workers move into the swanky new high rises being built in LIC.
7
It will be funny if this reporting is wrong and they have actually chosen two other cities. As a native New Yorker and a transplanted Northern Virginia citizen, I applaud the new jobs coming to the area. I actually thought they might move to Houston. I'm also confused as to why people thought Amazon would set up HQ2 in midwest cities like Cleveland and Detroit. Really??
7
Yes, why would anyone move to the Midwest when in DC/NY you could get a workforce that you’ll pay twice as much for, will churn at higher rates, and will raise property values even more in areas that are already unaffordable! It’s a yawn of a choice.
Shame on you for making me stick up for Cleveland.
4
I thought Detroit would have been a good choice. I figured the options for space / development would be favorable there, and all the big ten universities produce a large pool of educated candidates for the workforce. I know there are other criteria to be met but I was watching with interest the possibility for this to land in Detroit.
2
@Regina Detroit has a massive new airport terminal.
It has underutilized road and rail infrastructure due to the exodus that has happened in recent years. It is across the river from Canada, which would have supported international offices and workers. There is a ton of historic buildings and houses that could be had for pennies on the dollar compared to NYC, Washington, Boston, or anywhere in California.
And it would have given them a chance to revitalize one of America's great industrial cities. If it were up to me, Detroit would have been my choice.
Let’s be clear about one thing here: Long Island City is not a “short” subway ride away. There are NQR-7 delays daily — “sick passengers” and “signal delays” galore. Opening an Amazon HQ will only further lengthen the already congested, and delayed commute. Thanks, Andy.
13
What a sham. The last thing already overpriced, over crowded NYC is this behemoth moving into one of the last livable areas in Queens. I shutter to think of what’s going to happen to rents and property prices in Queens. This HQ should have moved somewhere that could use more high paying jobs, like Albany or Buffalo, Binghamton or Rochester... but no, that wouldn’t satisfy the ‘hip’ requirement for the intended workforce.
11
Ahh yes, the hip factor. LIC is home to all of the young who can’t afford Manhattan or Brooklyn prices yet the rent is pretty much just as high. If Bezos wants a branch near NYC then he should’ve chosen Westchester or Nassau county. Long Island could use a hub of this kind but it wouldn’t attract the 20 somethings that they want.
3
All those tax incentives would have been better spent to give the bottom rungers affordable housing. Bezos is an example of a bizzilionair who wants to hoard his money rather dan give to philanthropy. How much do you really need to hoard, before you look like you have become bezoed. Amazon is the new walmart. Soon enough it too will struggle for its piece. I think these tax incentives come very close to the definition of bottom feeding in the swamp of greedlandia
10
'....A short subway ride from midtown..."
Really!!
5
@shh
Only if you can squeeze on the overcrowded trains.
2
If you're commuting from south of DC up I-95 to Crystal City, the Pentagon, or DC, you might as well walk to work.
13
Crystal City has “strong public transit system “???
You should know that after massive maintenance failures, crashes (and deaths), reduced service, higher fares, and sinking ridership, they have a new slogan - Back To Good
7
@MB
600,000 riders use METRO each day. The vast majority go to work and get home on time....
The alternative: 600,000 More Cars on the road, clogging up freeways.
5
Wow, surprised more people don't feel that thousands of jobs, produced by one of the top 3 fastest growing, largest companies in the world, is not good for New York. A side benefit is their CEO, not exactly a Trump fan and able to express himself. He does own The Washington Post. Bigger picture.
9
@Calvin Ask the working class in Seattle who can't afford to live in their homes anymore how they feel about Amazon.
9
If Bezos wants to open shop in NY then just buy a building in Manhattan. The LIC area is already incredibly congested with lousy public transport. It’s also full of working class commuters and different cultures that make the area great. That will be gone once management and execs move in. It’s already disappearing because of the luxury rentals popping up in LIC. They’re marketed to the 20 something crowd who want to be close to the city but can’t afford the cost of an apartment- although the rents are nearly the same. Bezos could’ve moved further into Queens or to Long Island or up in Westchester and still be close to Manhattan, airports and public transport.
3
@Calvin Thousands of jobs - if you are aged 23-29, male, a graduate of certain universities, white or Asian, and single or prepared to abandon your family for 90-hour workweeks. Nothing for the rest of us, unless you are fortunate enough to own property to sell and a wildly inflated price.
2
Disgusting.
One of the wealthiest corporations in the history of the world demanding and getting hundreds of millions of dollars in subsidies. And Cuomo is proud of his abasement before this corporate greed.
No doubt there will be a lot of big campaign contributions as well...
Is it possible to be too cynical? Seems that the answer is no.
17
Did I miss something? Did Amazon make its announcement? 2 months ago everyone was so sure it would be Texas. Before that, Chicago, before that....
I'd guess LIC and VA are in the final running, and the activities surrounding that type of placement are the tea leaves everyone is reading as a done deal.
Frankly, it would be a bit surprising given the reported criteria used for assessment, but money can change minds.
This could still be a ploy. Lets say you were Amazon in the final stages of negotiation with 3 or 4 cities. If you really wanted City X but they were not flexible enough, you would make it look like you were set on City Y before final negotiations. Make every city think they are #2 so they try harder.
Maybe the tea leaf readers are right this time. Still... maybe not.
I wouldn't gamble money on it just yet.
2
I worked in Crystal City, and I think selecting it is a great choice. I say ignore the belly-achers. There is more than enough underutilized capacity to accommodate thousands of new workers in the short term, and many thousands more in the long term. How many more employees can Crystal City take on before it just gets back to where it was in the 1990s (before it was hit by DoD's divestment aka BRAC)? There are literally entirely vacant properties next to the metro. There is a new metro entrance in the works for Crystal Dr., and there will be entirely new station in Potomac Yards. Come on DC-area, there is no better place for Amazon to pick. We can rise to the challenge and welcome our new neighbors.
8
Headquarters in two states that don't need the boost. What a surprise. Was there no office space available in Silicon Valley?
7
If Boston lost out in the tax incentive bidding war for Amazon, then I'm glad. Someone has to realize sometime that offering hundreds of millions of dollars over many years for the unenforceable promise of more jobs is a poor bargain.
13
Who runs this town? The voters, the rich? No, real estate runs the town. It would be good if it weren't so, but when you hear that 50% of de Blasio's calendar was taken up with meetings by real estate, you realize who is getting what they want. It's not the people, certainly not the poor, it's not the elected, and it's not corporations.
5
Interesting choices. Both cities are crowded and expensive. A fun place for young single people to work initially, but not the best place to raise a family unless you are really, really wealthy.
13
@judy Bezos prefers rootless younger people without families. He can pay them less and lay them off quickly as required.
5
The costs of Amazon in NYC are too high. New York’s middle class is already struggling to pay for rent hikes and higher costs of living. This will gut us.
Enjoy NYC now, because the second the Amazon Death Star touches down, the city you love is gone.
11
What a horrible decision. NYC and Queens doesn’t need more tech people and jobs. The cost of living is already too high and the place is crowded! NYC infrastructure like the MTA is over worked and falling apart.
Disappointed in Amazon.
8
Agree with you, but we should be disappointed in our elected officials, especially Andrew "Amazon" Cuomo.
7
Upfront, I will honestly admit that I'm not a fan of Amazon. I enjoy actually going to bookstores, drugstores, and supermarkets, and I don't care about movies or old TV shows I never watched the first time being available to stream through Amazon. We already have Netflix and HBO Go in our house and both work quite well and offer enough good entertainment to satisfy any family.
What concerns me is the epic tax giveaway to a mega-billion for what absolutely has to be a fantasy number of 50,000 jobs. I highly doubt that 25,000 jobs per location are going to be available if two sites are chosen. I have seen absolutely no proof to back up this claim.
Additionally, Jeff Bezos, for all his self-promotion of being a progressive individual, treats his workers poorly, especially in Amazon warehouses.
His record of hiring 50% female is laughable, and the number of women executives and supervisors throughout his company is lean, and those women who are on the payroll are paid less than men.
I hope Governor Cuomo, who owes unions a lot for his election successes (his father's, too), has stressed to Amazon a more farsighted understanding about hiring females for a much more inclusive work force than exists in Seattle.
18
They aren't putting anything in Arlington because of the "talent pool" - they are putting it there because it's close to one of their biggest customers, the Pentagon. As for New York, I guess a couple billion tax payer dollars for relabelling existing workforce into "part of HQ 2" is too good to pass over ...
8
50,000 full time employees at an average salary of $100,000!?!! The mind boggles. Executives and engineers to manage a company that just moves goods around? Ok, I know that now they have their finger in a lot of pies, but how is this even possible? That's $5,000,000,000 in salaries. 5 billion.
6
Can the infrastructure of LIC handle this?
6
No the infrastructure in LIC cannot handle it. The 7 train rarely works well yet has always been a main artery through Queens. New luxury sky scrapers have been popping up - I suppose that will house the new young rich. It will destroy the culture of the surrounding neighborhoods.
3
Exactly what I had figured all along during this self-demeaning urban beauty contest. The two cities perfectly complement each other: NYC is the center of fashion, cuisine, media, marketing, pro sports, design and everything else consumer, plus Wall St. DC has government, military, foreign embassies and demo tech.
The two cities have the best air connections. And both can absorb so many new employees, not only without strain, but without it making a dent. Finally, both are very attractive to the kinds of workers Amazon wants at its HQs.
8
LIC is already becoming too congested with all the rental towers just built. Queensboro Plaza and Court Square are already two congested subway stops. Poor choice.
2
was just about to move to Astoria, now reconsidering.
3
@ml I might have to leave. 1-bedrooms are now regularly over $2k.
2
And people who live in Arlington are going to be able to afford a home, even the rent on an apartment with what they're making at Amazon? What a joke. Why didn't Amazon/Bezos do the right thing and go to Detroit or another city in this country where the cost of living is low and people need jobs? Capitalism...yeah, right.
13
@Claudia
It bears repeating, "Why didn't Amazon do the right thing?" Anyone ever do the study of jobs and profits shifted sideways out of the brick and mortar companies Amazon sent into bankruptcy? If Amazon is a tech company then everybody is a tech company. They use tech.
"The arrival of Amazon in Long Island City could finally establish New York as a technology hub on par with its West Coast rivals." But establishment of a technology hub should be the result of bold innovation and new ideas, not because a corporate behemoth (which happens to be somewhat tech-related) decides to plop down in a particular spot. Go away, Amazon.
4
@Ethan
If Amazon is a tech company then so was Sears.
2
Not enough truck traffic in Queens? All their vehicles should have to be fully electric.
5
“Amazon” Cuomo is another clown politician who thinks corporations should not pay taxes and be given hundreds of millions of taxpayer monies in their ongoing extortion campaigns.
8
Some people think Amazon is a philanthropy which should have chosen Detroit or Newark, for example, so it could revitalize the rundown cities. That's just stupid.
Where would the workforce come from? Why would anyone with a family want to move there? Where would housing come from? Schools? Hospitals? Universities? What about safety and law enforcement? Infrastructure? Roads? Public transportation? What could such places offer Amazon?
Choosing Crystal City and Long Island City is smart.
5
Cuomo and all other elected grifters can call them “incentives” all they want. The reality is it’s free money for a billion dollar corporation with the downstream effect of a tax increase for residents.
9
Irony? Something named Amazon stressing the environment.
1
The SUBSIDIES offered by any government (state, city, etc.) to Amazon (or Boeing, etc.) are nothing more than CORPORATE WELFARE.
Both the Democratic and Republican Parties are fronts for bigCorporate America and the uber-rich. One acts with more heart, and one acts with more hate -- but in the end, both care more for big money than "the small people."
8
It is sad to see our country devolve into beggars of bigBusiness. It is completely anti-Capitalistic, as Capitalism demands competitive markets.
The primary economic role of government in a Capitalistic economy is to ensure competitive markets (no - not free markets), via things like strong and enforced anti-trust laws, progressive taxation, educating the populace, programs that encourage innovation and entrepreneurship.
5
As if we should be surprised. Amazon was never going to clear 5000 acres of hybrid field corn in central Ohio or central anywhere to fill magically with bi-coastal techno-geek Bezos hipsters. The upside, maybe, is the game of carrot-and-stick has caused many fingers-crossed what-if municipalities to up their infrastructure game -- lite-rail anyone? -- though who knows how they're now going to pay for it.
And it further confirms the new regrettable continental divides. Two blue coasts and one ginormous red flyover. North versus South now officially Sides versus Middle. Interesting.
10
I am determined to do what's possible not to support monopolies like Amazon. Use other platforms.
Jeff Besos has $156 Billion, and he finds it appropriate for his company to receive hundreds of millions in subsidies from New York State--all paid by working people through their taxes?
We desperately need a federal tax vehicle to prevent localities from being pitted against each other: federal-level dollar-for-dollar claw-backs.
9
As a Seattle native, I can attest to the observation that Amazon's mega-presence has done much to deteriorate the attractivity, livability and accessibility of the city : concentration of its offices in the already-gridlocked north downtown, explosion of housing and other costs, drastic worsening of homelessness - and arrogant, inappropriate attempts to dictate municipal and local policy on the part of Amazon leadership. Given the already high density of both projected locations, many fears as expressed in other comments seem justified. As for Governor Cuomo : caution is advisable - stooping too low to lick Bezos' boots may prevent your getting back up again ...
20
I moved to Long Island City having watched the area emerge from urban blight and environmental toxicity over 25 years, and it’s funny how the same folks complaining about gentrification were affected by urban blight, crime, poverty, joblessness, lack of investment in schools, infrastructure, and services, etc. in these same neighborhoods 15 years ago. What was their solution back then, when most of Long Island City was depilated warehouses, a polluted waterfront, and tire repair shops - with the exception of the area around Vernon Blvd. where a small number of locals scraped by at a handful of empty restaurants and bars? LIC is a sensible choice with a spectacular waterfront, a diverse and well-educated population of hard-working second-generation immigrant kids, a tax base that can now support good schools, plentiful warehouses, proximity to major airports, and multiple public transportation lines. Traffic? Please. New Yorkers don’t drive. The subway would benefit from aggressive corporate advocacy to create the political will for infrastructure investment among squabbling politicians. Highly paid techies create spillover employment for non-tech workers from optometrists to barbers. NYC has the scale to absorb an influx without the housing dislocation experienced by smaller cities. Bla, bla, gentrification, let’s all go back to the good old days of rat-infested abandoned lots and glass from broken car windows all over the sidewalk on 46th Rd.!
22
@Thomas The average rent in LIC is currently $3300. What non-tech workers like optometrists and barbers can afford to live there?
5
@Brady A. Berman
Build more housing in that case, both market and affordable.
3
I thought one of Amazon’s goals was for affordable homes for their employees and they chose New York City and Washington? This decision goes along with what they did at Abebooks closing down some of their international sellers. Amazon has become a thoughtless company. Ebay and other online marketplaces don’t seem as haughty.
7
@ScottC
Safe to assume that the folks working in Amazon HQ won't struggle to afford rent in either place.
4
Bezos had a chance to choose a Rust Belt city and didn't. More evidence of why non-coastal people feel ignored by the rest of the country.
11
@Max Brockmeier
Why would anyone expect the curious, hyper-educated young people Amazon HQ2 will attract to move to a rust-belt city?
New York and Arlington are not that far apart.
If they want to split it into two, one should be on the east coast, one the west coast and a third one in middle or southern parts of the United States.
5
If true, it's a poor allocation of resources and taxpayer money. Amazon doesn't need a break from government, and its impact on any area will have, at least, as many negatives as positives. Politicians need to stop choosing winners and losers because invariably it reeks of pay to play.
8
It’s really unfortunate that they are moving to Arlington. This will destroy the few semi-affordable neighborhoods left in the county. They should move in somewhere that really needs the economic boost.
9
For New York, the timing is interesting. It wouldn’t hurt Cuomo’s reelection.
2
Cuomo is cruising to re-election, Amazon headquarters or no.
1
Governments should be discouraging large companies in fast growing industries from concentrating employment in mega campuses in already overpriced cities. How about a 500 person office in Syracuse, Rochester, or Buffalo? How about 100 person offices in Utica, Jamestown, Elmira, Watertown, or Plattsburgh?
America needs to geographically diversify it's employment, especially in tech which does not need 50k people in the same place. It will revitalize much of our heartlands bringing jobs and opportunity there. Many tech workers, myself included, would jump at the chance to live in more affordable areas with easy access to nature and short commutes. Additionally, if we reduced the fire hose of cheap H1b labor these companies would be incentived to actually hire and train American born workers in these places.
You want to defeat Trumpism? I'll will be done by bringing the economy of the 21st century to the places still living in the 20th. Not by cramming more people into DC and NYC
54
@George I don't disagree with your argument in favor of advocating for geographically diverse employment opportunities, especially those 'left behind'. However, if you want to defeat so called Trumpism, why specify American born instead of American citizens in your response?
Amazon IN NYC is ok but Walmart is still kept out of the City?
Let us recall that it was feared that Walmart would negatively impact local businesses. How many local businesses across the country, including in NYC, have tanked because of Amazon?
That said, Amazon is not going away so I root for them to choose LIC. I go through LIC frequently. It's pretty crowded now. Public trans is at close to capacity. The roads are forever clogged. Parking? Fuggetaboutit. Where in LIC would they locate? Over the railroad tracks?
7
If Amazon comes to Long Island City, Queens College -- the college in NYC with the largest and most diverse number of computer science majors -- will be ready!
9
@Felix Matos Rodriguez
So will the Northern Virginia and DC colleges with robust tech majors: George Washington, Georgetown, American University, George Mason, Trinity, Gallaudet, Howard, Catholic, UDC, Corcoran. Anyone wondering why Bezos would pick Crystal City is underestimating the first class universities, hospitals, trains, airports, hotels and tons of cultural attractions in Washington DC. Crystal City is 5 minutes from Washington.
Of course, there will be suffering along with the potential benefits. For all the new real estate development and beautiful buildings will come displacement, homelessness, and increased prices. Yes, there will be increased transportation congestion, but having its HQ located in LIC offers its employees housing in LIC, and will not require the worst forms of transportation, cars. I'd hope that Amazon won't be quite so disruptive and that our government can reign in the worst excesses of a behemoth like Amazon, and possible extract money from Amazon to cover the costs of its disruptive effects.
1
Amazon knows that you have to go where the talent pool is.
Young, talented people want to be in NY, DC, Boston, Seattle, and the SF Bay Area.
Amazon is already in Seattle and the Bay Area makes no sense. So we always had the inside track.
4
@Paul '52 I agree. Despite the fact that it would be generous and politically beneficial to open HQ2 in the midwest or south, the reality is that young, highly educated, often single people want to be where things are happening. They want a good music scene, clubs, access to good restaurants. They want outdoor activities too, which are definitely in short supply in either of these venues, but then nothing could beat Seattle for its emphasis on outdoor activities. I'm not sure many midwest cities have that many miles of walking/running/biking/hiking trails either. So I feel sorry that a small midwestern city isn't getting this big boost, but I understand why Amazon chose as it did.
3
Some of the posters are assuming Amazon is getting tax breaks, but New York City was not special subsidies or tax breaks and its bid was predicated, according to de Blasio as the time, "on the talent of our workers and the incredible diversity of industries in this town. Those are the strengths you can’t buy with tax breaks.” NYC was always strong but smaller in the tech market, e.g., Silicon Alley, but now getting stronger with presences from Google, Facebook, and Cornell University, among others. In addition to Cornell, NYC has major universities like Columbia and NYU, and their lack of pure tech focus might be part of the strategy for its placement here. Another aspect of Amazon's placement might be NY's desirability as a mecca for talent, a place aspiring technology people might want to live. Corporations are not charities, minimally intent on social benefits, and are basically mercenary. To expect more would be naive.
6
Not a huge Cuomo fan but good job on this one Andrew. People have been vocal about their hatred for everything Wall St. and NYC a one dimensional city. Now, there will be a blend of tech, advertising and finance which should help the city weather the inevitable next downturn.
But yes, he has promised to improve the subway line since the 7 is already over burdened. LaGuardia improvements were likely a factor as well.
5
@Jerome - Indeed, Andrew Cuomo did a great job. He sold the soul of New Yorker's to entice Amazon. %0,000 jobs Andy says for New York. He's just not bright enough to understand that NYC and LI don't have 50,000 techie types, which means the majority of those jobs will go to people outside of NY. Rough calculation, 50,000 workers plus another 100,000 family members trying to find a place to live in NY where a 2 bedroom averages 1.5 million; where the transportation system is so poor that present workers face a nightmare every day; where a mayor wants to surcharge drivers coming into the city during peak periods. Yup, great idea Andy and you'll have every New Yorker participate by paying even higher taxes to cover the enticements you offered Amazon. Way to go sport.
2
I work in Long Island City, which is already jammed with cars and has barely functional public transit. It’s already been a gigantic construction zone for glass tower assets for foreign investors. I’m shocked Amazon would come here, and it’s going to be a disaster for normal New Yorkers in the neighborhood. And they will do nothing for affordable housing initiatives. I can’t believe the Mayor would have pitched this while the city’s homeless population continues to rise. Stay away, Amazon. And Mr. Mayor: get a grip on the uncontrolled growth. Who knew the tale of two cities mayor would be so easily bought and paid for by corporations and real estate companies!
21
Earlier this year Atlanta was thought to have been on the list.
But then, when Delta Airlines sought to "go neutral" by eliminating a promotional discount to NRE members, the GOP-dominated Georgia legislature voted a stinging rebuke by capriciously eliminating a fuel-tax break. Of course, the Republican governor felt compelled to sign it because of other tax breaks in the bill, but to many, the lack of "adult supervision" in the governor's office was appalling.
While the GOP base may have been delighted by these results, such blatant pandering to the base has had its consequences. Put yourself in the shoes of a corporate decision-maker: Would you willingly advocate for a move to a locale where capricious local politics would add significant uncertainty to your strategic business plan?
Perhaps a new day is dawning. That Stacy Abrams has been polling even with Kemp is a game changer. Empowered Georgia voters are signalling they've had enough of these shenanigans.
23
So we are going to give potentially billions to make our barely functional transportation infrastructure demonstrably worse rather than putting that money into the subways which are in desperate need after all of the rezoning and real estate giveaways? Remember, there is no blue or red in NYC, only green($.)
7
As long as they don't come here to Colorado I'm fine with that. The Denver area has been at less than 2% unemployment for the last 4 years. We do not have enough employees now and restaurants and bars are closing as well as other businesses because we just don't have enough people to hire. I've been trying to hire entry-level in my office for a couple of years and scraping the bottom of the barrel.
It's not that businesses pay low wages, it's just that there are no people to work.
People are not having large families. We are not turning out enough people to work lower and middle income jobs. the last thing we need is Amazon coming in here.
8
@margaux This is huge: "We do not have enough employees now and restaurants and bars are closing as well as other businesses because we just don't have enough people to hire."
This fact on the ground is a great argument for the great tradition of immigration that founded this country--notwithstanding H1-B abuse that can undercut white collar workers.
4
@margaux Yes, that's what the wildly overpopulated planet needs. More people. Just so a restaurant can hire waiters.
4
Holy cow! Didn’t these people check out TRAFFIC first. Why on EARTH put transportation hubs in the middle of two of the worst traffic jams in the country?! They will rue the day...soon. Forget next-day delivery. Is next month okay?
11
@Jim Richardson - Can you say "public transit'?
3
Great news. Just keep them and their intrusive masses far from Massachusetts.
7
A real impact could have been made in a place like Detroit, Cleveland, Indianapolis, New Orleans..... Instead, LIC and Crystal City, Va. This whole process of “choose me”! Is disgusting. The incentive packages offered only ramp up the next one.
36
Thank God it is not Philadelphia. I did not think it would be for reasons stated previously, but still a relief. Crystal City is a souless urban behemoth already, I don't know about the place in Queens. Yep Philadelphia will escape for now the soul-crushing impact of a corporate giant like Amazon moving to the city. Phew.
11
@J - Comcast ring a bell?
1
Now the only question left is will they change the name of body of water at its shore from East River to Amazon River?
2
Both of those areas have large Asian populations. Being married into an Asian family, I admire the work ethic I see. I’m sure with all the algorithm data, this has to be a factor. Let’s hope Amazon treats their employees fairly for the hard work they do.
6
LIC is a short subway ride to Manhattan...perhaps this will be an incentive to Amazon Cuomo to finally do something about the state of transit in NYC.
11
I though it would be New York. It occurred to me that nothing was more important to Amazon than attracting and retaining the best talent available. Amazon doesn't want top people leaving because they landed a job in New York. So, Amazon went there.
2
Anything the city does to diversify away from the boom and bust finance sector
is helpful. Its easy to complain about
Amazon driving up housing prices or
burdening our overcrowded subways
when the economy is "booming".
The city busted in 1987, 2000, 2008, and we are well overdue.
6
Two of the most expensive places to live in the US- Suburban D.C. and New York. Apparently, a place where employees could afford to live was not a factor and neither is a place anyone with a brain would prefer over Seattle.
Smells like spreading the workforce for more political pull.
11
driving into and out of NYC is a nightmare.... ditto, DC....
I'm surprised they didn't stretch a bit more SW of NNYC, and more W of DC....
The jobs would have spurred development in such less expensive and congested areas, while being close enough to talent to attract it.
6
@EEE - If you had followed this saga closely, you'd know by now that Amazon is looking for a place in the middle of a large city, not a suburb, because that's where most smart, creative younger people want to live and work...they are not interested in strip malls, tract housing, and Applebees.
6
@dean bush No, they must be interested in overcrowding, unaffordable souless housing, decrepit public transport, embarrassing public schools and all the other joys of NYC.
1
They'll decide Wednesday morning. If the election results are not a repudiation of Trump, one of the cites will be Toronto. Amazon needs the best people, and can't afford to lose them to a racist immigration policy.
13
Amazon will eventually have a few thousand workers in Crystal City and a few thousand in NYC. This whole gimmick is disappointing.
4
Womp womp.
I’m from Ohio so I naturally hate Michigan. BUT I would have loved to see HQ2 go up in Detroit.
They could have tapped into the talent pool at University of Michigan (Larry Page alum), Michigan State, and Ohio State (3 hour drive), Case Western Reserve (2 hours away), etc.
Detroit would have been cheap land, would have turned around the city, and would have not flooded the city’s infrastructure.
I can’t see LIC and DC handling more people. New York is a disaster, you’re going to ride the E, M trains to LIC once the L is closed for 2 years? Ha! Good luck.
21
@Manish - The L runs east/west from Brooklyn to Chelsea. It has no connection to LIC. BTW, as soon as Seattle figures out its traffic (horrible) and public transit (horrible) get back to us.
2
@Manish The L doesn't go to LIC.
1
Amazon is even now only starting to pay state sales taxes in many jurisdictions. 25 years after it was "founded". Has over the course of that time either lost money in most quarters or - like now - has a ridiculous price to earnings ratio. And they need corporate welfare in the form of tax breaks. Hello, America.
5
I've relatives in northern VA and the traffic around Arlington and the greater DC area is positively insufferable. This is going to make an already terrible situation even worse.
Amazon really knows how to pick 'em.
11
@Michael - Amazon knows the future of cities revolves around public transit, biking and walking. Try to catch up.
5
25000 high level jobs is quite a prize for anyplace , anywhere. However, I understand the controversy around the LIC choice , as it has a myriad of issues that will affect so many people.
Now, only question left is will they change the name of body of water at its shore from East River to Amazon River?
2
The entire Amazon process, like so many other corporate selection processes before and no doubt others to come, shows how ridiculous it all is and how rich corporations play local governments against each other with this competitive bidding process (mostly tax breaks) to extract goodies that are eventually paid for from the pockets of taxpayers including the small companies who are already there. Cities and states need to form a compact to disarm and stop this wasteful competition, and force corporations to select locations based on real factors and not artificial subsidies financed by the hapless locals.
29
@John Binkley
There is a simple solution. Treat the government incentives as income to the recipient company, and tax it.
14
At the new federal tax rate that wouldn’t be much of a disincentive.
3
@Sam
Federal taxes aren't the issue -- no state or city can forgive those. It's local taxes and incentives, such as forgiveness from real estate taxes.
So much for affordable housing, cost of living and easy commute. But these are strategic technology, talent and influence centers!
2
NYC and DC are booming economies — for certain people — with runaway housing and commercial real estate costs, and widespread poverty remaining.
Both cities suffer from radical underinvestment in public infrastructure. NYC’s public schools are mostly terrible, with huge numbers of students competing for very limited space at a handful of elite (and wildly overcrowded) high schools, abd the rest dished out by a pitiful lottery system. DC public schools are even worse.
And public transit access was a major consideration? Obviously Jeff Bezos has never ridden LIC’s pathetic G train nor tried to board the #7 at rush hour. DC’s gorgeous Metro is falling apart, thanks to decades of severe underinvestment.
We’ve known all along that the “winning city” would need to make unprecedented tax concessions along with other concessions. With that, this move looks to add tons of workers without the means to repair and rebuild infrastructure and services.
Oh, and Long Island City is flat land on an estuary just a few feet above a steadily rising high tide level. LIC flooded during Hurricane Sandy, a Category 1 hurricane. A bigger storm will require at a minimum rebuilding of saltwater-flooded subway tunnels (the L train nearby will soon be closed for 18 months, due to post-Sandy reconstruction). Did anyone think about that? Or does Amazon plan to be on to the next city before the inevitable flood?
38
I live in Rio Rancho, New Mexico (near Albuquerque). I can only imagine the joy these kind of jobs would bring to our poor but beautiful, low-cost and friendly Land of Enchantment.
6
@Kerry I live near where the new headquarters will be in LIC and I miss New Mexico every day. Send chili!
3
@Charles K. Aaawwww, thanks Charles! Green or red??!!
I predicted the location would be in proximity to Hotchkiss 18 months ago. The east coast collation center based in VA had (has) been problematic. For AWS enterprise clients, they needed depth and redundancy to enhance VA's aging center and give largescale clients more confidence. To compete with Microsoft who already has this infrastructure and doesn't shut down in a hurricane the way AWS did. But having studied this closely for market purposes, I also think its about family. Some elite prep school families who legacy through the east cost schools participate in every facet of supporting their kids boarding school life. They show up. M. and Jeff, By placing themselves in the northeast hub, in close proximity to their chosen boarding school add depth and redundancy to their technology infrastructure, tap the most educated pool of workers in the world, while local and present to attend their kids boarding school events. This move will also aid in the eventual break-up of the company as they'll already have more than one corporate center established, financed by taxpayers. To have accomplished such a necessary strategic business need, with the aid of government subsidy and shareholder dereference is truly brilliant. By marketing around "the pick", no one really explored the true business and personal motivations behind it. How many women get to add a corporate headquarters where its most convenient to them personally? Kara and Sorkin missed this story from the start!
3
No question that Newark (or Detroit) and many other struggling communities could benefit from an Amazon demi-HQ.
However, corporations are not governments, and have as their major goal generating profits for their shareholders.
The huge, well-educated labor pool required by Amazon and other tech companies simply does not exist in Newark or Detroit, both of which also have serious quality-of-life issues (e.g., poor schools, high crime rates).
4
@Mon Ray There lies the fallacy people believe that a significant preexisting labor pool is required before establishing a presence that requires this many people.
Look, just ask the oil companies how they got so many people to the Dakotas for oil and gas extraction. Pay enough, and you'll get your workforce. Or with tech in the Silicon Valley. You can't believe that if 50,000 job openings came up tomorrow they could be quickly filled with Bay Area natives. It would be mostly transplants from the East Coast, like it has been for the past decade.
11
Twice the tax credit, the same expansion plan. Amazon continues to make out like a bandit
23
Even if many people take the metro to Crystal City, Amazon's presence will still make rush hour traffic around the Pentagon even worse (Is this even possible? I guess so.). A salary of $100,000 is reasonable-to-high in many parts of the country, but not in metro D.C. I wonder how long it will take for all those smart new hires at Amazon will take to figure that out.
39
Because it already isn't hard enough to get to Laguardia Airport....let's throw in some more gridlock. Brilliant.
27
If true, what a bait and switch.
Every earnest municipality in the country made a bid, and it ends up going to two of the biggest, most affluent areas in the country.
Was this the strategy all along, in order to squeeze out more tax breaks?
We need to get away from reality television culture, because it's toxic, fake, and insincere.
150
I thought the criteria included outdoor opportunities similar to Seattle and reasonable housing prices in order to attract talent. Both of these locations already have very expensive housing.
Also, sounds like a bait-and-switch. 50,000 jobs! OK, just 25,000 jobs! And we want tax breaks and other help from cities. Wonder if splitting the total means they'll take less in goodies.
18
Hey Amazon, not everyone wants to live in massively congested, massively overpriced coastal cities, period. It's not just Seattle. You're blowing it.
23
So after all that fuss about a nationwide search, Amazon is predictably just going to NY and DC so it can sink its tentacles into the East Coast centers of the media and government.
Makes total sense if you are a monopolist trying to dominate the world.
116
I wonder if Amazon gave any serious thought to creating its new locations anywhere in states Trump won? I doubt it--perhaps with the exception of Atlanta, which might be on the verge of making a Democrat its governor tomorrow, because the future, which Amazon symbolizes, does not flourish in those states. Lets see if tomorrow there is a redirection of this country.
6
@Steve
Re "because the future, which Amazon symbolizes, does not flourish in those states"
I am a Progressive, but the swipe at the South is not appreciated. The less populated areas many times are the source of urban America's water, food, fuel and more than a few of their people.
One of the reasons the Democrats are doing so poorly is that they have tended to concentrate in a smallish number of places.
Specific to Amazon, whose stock I own, is not necessarily the future as much as it is the present. One test for Amazon will be after Mr Bezos leaves the company. Apple appears to have peaked less than a decade after Mr Jobs passed away with lots of iteration but little innovation- they are a one trick pony wedded to the iPhone for roughly 3/4ths of their income.
9
@David Gregory
I think you’re missing the point and tone of @Steve’s comment. It would have behooved Amazon to shake off their seeming prejudice against ‘red’ America and put their HQ2(s) in so-called red states. Missed opportunity to perhaps help turn red states blue.
1
Will the salaries of all these workers be high enough to
afford the rents?
22
@jahnay it's HQ, not one of their factories. These are engineers, who will be making six figures.
@jahnay The salaries will be high enough to kick lesser mortals out of those neighborhoods. And inequality grows ever bigger because large companies have to pile on and all be in the same place, making those places unlivable.
7
Ummm .... Amazon doesn’t own factories nor does it manufacture anything
1
This is a huge coup for New York City, which will continue to diversify its economy as it becomes a more significant center for technology, e-commerce, and internet companies. Along with the development of the Cornell-Technion campus on Roosevelt Island, New York City will now have two significant pillars of activity in these fields.
16
I am surprised Amazon would choose Crystal City because the constant noise of airplanes flying to and from nearby “Reagan” Airport is maddening. Northern Va is already overcrowded and almost all of the working class, middle class neighborhoods with modest homes in Arlington built for returning WWII vets have been hideously overrun by conspicuous consumption houses that have no yards because each takes up an entire 1/4 acre lot, bocking the sunlight from a remaining original home next door. South Arlington/Crystal City is the only area left with a sizeable population of minorities with relatively modest incomes.
15
Another fine example of corporate welfare. Millionaire politicians giving away taxpayer money to their billionaire friends.
Let them setup in Buffalo NY and Norfolk VA, and give Amazon nothing. At least those areas could use these 'high paying jobs'. It's insane to try to cram more people into two of the most densely populated and expensive areas in the US.
Oh, and if the people think these $100,000 a year jobs are a lot of money, just ask San Fran. It's still pretty hard to get by when the average price of a decent house is 2 Million.
126
@Kevin
Yes, a decent single-family house costs $2 mill in San Francisco. But, most people don't live in single-family houses. They live in apartments or condos. And, pay for them with what they save by not needing a car.
The population keeps growing. If people couldn't find a way to afford it, that just couldn't happen.
I live in LIC and have taken the subway every day for the last 13 years (I don't own a car). You know what the best way to guarantee that the MTA and city will urgently address some of the subway issues? Put an Amazon headquarters in Queens. LIC is going to get hundreds of thousands of residents and scores of business over the next decade whether we like it or not. This at least guarantees that the city will put intense focus on this area, attention it finally deserves.
21
@Michael Oh really? As if the 8.5M or whatever residents that already live here, and the major businesses and financial centers that reside here, weren't already enough to 'motivate' the MTA and/or Albany to have a sense of urgency around fixing the mess of a subway system? I think the only thing that will 'guarantee' intense focus on the MTA is a total overhaul of MTA management. I'm waiting to see what the new head guy from Toronto(?) is going to do to shake things up.
17
@Lisa What’s needed is a new head guy in the governor’s mansion.
6
I live about 6 minutes from Crystal City. I've lived in D.C. and northern VA for more than 35 yrs and last year I quit riding D.C. METRO because I couldn't take it anymore. The train cars smell like chemicals, most trains to the suburbs are packed and way off schedule and many of the METRO police and station agents are insane.
If this is going to work, serious upgrades to METRO are essential or there are going to be tens of thousands of unhappy riders.
That doesn't even count all of us who have "opted out" of METRO in recent years because it's a zoo.
13
@fast/furious Are we riding the same public transportation system? Yes, METRO isn't perfect but you make it sound like a festering sore, which it is not. I've never had a problem with a station agent or had a rail car smell of chemicals. Do upgrades need to happen to the system? Yes, but let's not sound crazy or exaggerate the problem with the system. The system for the most part works and money and time are needed for the upgrades and improvements to bear fruit.
14
@TDR
I've lived here since the 1960s and METRO is a mess. Remember a couple of years ago when METRO was enforcing the "no eating on METRO" rule by arresting people who were chewing gum? Remember the person METRO police busted when they saw that person pop a piece of candy in their mouth as they were entering the station? METRO employees are a pretty bad lot. People who ride METRO twice a day during rush hour aren't well acquainted with how METRO fails this area in general. Plus, I can go from mid-town Manhattan to Brighton Beach on the NYC subway for about $2. In D.C., the METRO fare from downtown D.C. to some of the VA burbs is $8. An obscene amount of $ given how poor METRO's performance is. The bus systems in Northern VA and some in D.C. were dismantled years ago because METRO was supposed to be the solution to transportation.
But anyone living in a Northern VA suburb who has to pay $20 for a taxi to one of the farther out suburban METRO stations is miserable about throwing money at the "METRO problem." Nobody can live in N. VA without a car - METRO or no METRO. METRO has enormous problems. Amazon will learn quickly how unreliable and expensive METRO is.
The selection of Crystal City and Long Island City speaks volumes about the personalities of Amazon in general, and Jeff Bezos in particular. The selection of these two sterile, “cities within a city,” office tower blocks is both profoundly insecure and disturbingly reactionary. A bolder, more self-confident Amazon could have chosen Detroit and Newark, thereby shouting at full volume that the new America has space for all its citizens. A truly progressive company would have thrown its employees into the very heart of a city, rather than giving them the more safe, curated, and controlled faux-urbanity of these twin Emerald cities. A century ago, when Walter Chrysler was looking for a headquarters, he gave America what is still the world’s most beautiful skyscraper. A century from now, what will anyone remember of Amazon?
141
@Walter Bruckner Indeed. I too can't stand the waterfront portion of LIC. It is sterile as you say, not much unlike Battery Park City, or the new glittering 'Seaport' area in Boston. What strikes me about such areas is that they are all 'curated' and self-contained, with ZERO connection to the surrounding/bordering neighborhoods. Especially in the case of LIC, the waterfront apartments and the people who live in them are 'worlds away' from the old-schoolers of the neighborhood, and who continue to live in the few private houses that remain in LIC.
12
@Walter Bruckner
The sad truth is that had this occurred, Amazon would have been accused from some quarters of ‘gentrifying’ these locations and raising rents. Choosing places that are already high-rent/high-status is the conservative option.
7
@Lisa I don’t know about Detroit, but Newark is already utilizing a similar strategy of isolating corporate transplants from the surrounding community through skywalks, close proximity to Penn Sta., etc.
6
Crystal City for the grunts and Long Island City for the restaurants. Why else do companies keep their headquarters in New York anymore, when they could be anywhere and much more inexpensively for their average employee? So the executives can stuff their faces with a a different ostentatious dish every night. Everyone else has to pauperize themselves because their bosses are 'competitive' eaters in the truest sense.
15
@stan continople It's not just the executives who will be picky about their location, but the employees too. These high skilled jobs in tech are competitive for companies, they have to woo engineers with salaries+perks, and location is a huge factor when choosing which top company like Amazon you want to pick. There aren't many top software engineers who want to move to non-urban area.
10
@Chase You will be surprised but many of software engineers don't like to waste time in traffic. They have families and don't mind to have a house with a backyard in a sleepy neighbourhood. There are plenty of urban spaces more suited for HQ2 than the ones already jammed with people and traffic. BTW, a lot of software engeeneers prefer to work remotely and not to show up in the office at all.
3
Aside from the notions, true or not, that bigger might always be better and more jobs is always a good thing what exactly is the play here for NY?
Is it that Amazon might bring more "middle income " jobs? Because for all the economic benefits that accrue the city already struggles to balance the imbalance created by the finance , media, arts and fashion industries with the socio economic diversity of its population.
Not necessarily against this but its already the case that there are few places in or adjacent to the city where, for example, a city cop or teacher with a comparably remunerated partner can raise a family. Based on Seattles experience this threatens to impact several of those areas in Queens and adjacent parts of Long Island.
I would imagine the state and city will say they are playing to grow services, transport and housing , and that NY didnt get to where it is by restraining growth, but its also the case that the footprint of areas in the city that are off limits to middle/ lower income workers and families in general has never been as large.
16
@Robert What makes you think the city is struggling against demographic economic imbalance? The city, like all cities, wants to maximize its tax revenues. Well-off people pay taxes; poor people take away tax money. I wish it were different, but cities look at places like Detroit and shudder.
2
@HKGuy Poor people ALSO pay taxes. It's RICH people who pay less in taxes based on their aggregate incomes. And NYC's proposed "millionaires' tax" was shot down by the same guy pushing to bring Amazon to NYC in the first place.
Both highly taxed blue municipalities. Interesting choices.
4
@Sela -- Arlington, Virginia (Crystal City) is not a city (it is a county) and not terribly highly taxed.
2
They are looking for a smart work force.
2
Adding Amazon HQ2 in these two cities is like giving tax cuts in a growing economy. Horrible traffic, pollution and homes become unaffordable to government employees. I don’t know much about Queens area, but I hope they won’t come to Crystal City.
6
I live 15 minutes from Crystal City and I’m kind of thrilled. I retired a few years ago and was already planning to put my house on the market in the spring and move back to Massachusetts. It looks like I might get a slightly higher price than I was expecting.
12
@Patricia
My sister, who made a fortune in tech in the 90s, owns a 4 bedroom townhouse in Arlington, near the subway, about 5 miles from Crystal City. If AMAZON moves there, her home is going to be worth a fortune....
Would be fantastic news for LIC and NYC. Queens is the most ethnically diverse urban area in the world. LIC has 2 major airports, and multiple subway lines and bridges offering easy access to Manhattan. There are more apartments being added to LIC than any other part of the city over the next several years. The city is already making additional investments to improve transportation and quality of life. Sure, more investment is needed and there are certainly some growing pains, but those issues can be solved. An Amazon HQ is a huge opportunity to create jobs and investment in a developing area of the city. I'm in!
10
Queens won’t stay ethnically diverse if prices keep rising. Even without Amazon, many parts of Queens are becoming unaffordable and the trains are all massively overcrowded. This would just exacerbate the existing problems and speed the gentrification of the entire borough.
My husband and I, both people of color, moved out of Jackson Heights a couple of years ago when we wanted to start a family and needed more space. We’re privileged enough to have had a choice. Many families don’t have the means to move if they get priced out of the area. I hope Amazon will choose to go elsewhere.
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Sorry, meant to say Queens has 2 airports. JFK and La Guardia are not in LIC obviously.
Interesting. Troubling.
FreehDirect departed Long Island City for the South Bronx. With help: Albany gave on taxes. Albany wanted jobs in the South Bronx. They moved.
Amazon Direct shakes markets. A proper study of Amazon in food has not happened. It will come. Whole Foods the same.
Jeff Bezos’ managers know some of the questions in beef and other food. They are studying the best way to take red meat. They have a long way to go.
Opening to others will not help Trump or the locals.
@S B Lewis Makes a lot more sense for Fresh Direct to be in Hunt's Point, where all the wholesale food vendors are.
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"Amazon executives met two weeks ago with Gov. Andrew M. Cuomo in the governor’s Manhattan office, said one of the people briefed on the process, adding that the state had offered potentially hundreds of millions of dollars in subsidies."
This could affect my vote for governor tomorrow.
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@NYCLugg Because Molinari, the Republican candidate, would never, ever have offered an attractive package to a giant corporation for this, right?
It's said they asked for bids for a 50,000 job location and then decided on two locations. Does that necessarily mean they want some combination that tops out at 50,000 or could they hire up to 50,000 in both Arlington and Queens?
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Quoted from the first line, “Amazon has switched gears and is now finalizing plans to have a total of 50,000 employees in two locations.”
@Real D B Cooper The former, as article states.
I worked in Seattle for a while this past summer. Amazon destroyed its real estate market for natives, and the crowding, pollution, trash on the streets, etc. made me appreciate the cleanliness of Chicago streets. Amazon threw a hissy fit when asked to pay a head tax to build affordable housing, because they took it all away. I am relieved they are not coming here, as decent real estate prices are presently our chief advantage.
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a@Catherine
I live in Chicago too, and I have to disagree on the cleanliness of its streets. For the most part I find both the streets and sidewalks dirty and not in good repair. I already disagreed on housing affordability above, so won't do it again here.
Cool. The subways weren't crowded nearly enough for my taste.
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Oh, thank goodness they are not coming to Denver. We are already growing too rapidly, with major traffic problems, overrun outdoor destinations, and ridiculous housing costs. Please, Amazon, please settle as far away from Colorado as possible. Queens just about meets that metric.
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I’m not a huge fan of Boston mayor Marty Walsh, but I’m pleased that from the very beginning the Massachusetts leadership decided that Amazon would be offered no tax breaks or other incentives to locate here.
Boston/Cambridge has the best deal - two new Amazon buildings are going up and they will bring another 3,000 employees to the area, but we won’t have to deal with the huge crush of HQ2.
Virginia and NY need it more than we do.
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NYC doesn't need Amazon. Is it worth destroying LIC and further pushing out New Yorkers for a company that treats its employees as badly as Walmart? Why give massive tax breaks to one of the richest corporations in the world?
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@Ruben Kincaid LIC was well on its way to becoming a major corporate extension of Manhattan well before this. This only accelerates a process that has been going on since Citicorp.
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@HKGuy The LIC Citicorp building went up in 1990. The area still remained moribund for decades until the Manhattan market was eviscerated by the real estate vultures.
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@stan continople Hence, "accelerates." The transition of LIC from manufacturing to offices, film studios and expensive residential high-rises has been going on for some time.
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I’m sad that Newark or even Philadelphia wasn’t chosen. Newark has access to amazing transportation, has plenty of space to build new buildings and subways, has a giant workforce waiting for jobs close to home. Sure NJT has been underfunded and is in bad shape. But nothing that can’t be fixed with sensible democrats in charge. Ones who understand how important maintenance and tunnels are.
Texas hasn’t devoted enough money to building a smart transit network. They would rather tear down their downtowns and put in parking lots than create subways that would allow density and a truly urban environment attractive to a young and educated workforce.
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Long Island City? I realize most people will use public transport, but surely not all. The traffic is bad as it is already.
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I don't want the creepy-can maker and worker-abuser Amazon in business, let alone my city.
"Alexa, find me a hostile-takeover consultant who specializes in buying out evil corporations to then bleed them bankrupt..."
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Do the public subsidies our toxic Gov. Cuomo offered Amazon need approval by Albany? We must demand our state legislators block any use of taxpayer money for Amazon, which is a predatory and sociopathic corporation that will help destroy NYC if we let it.
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@Peter Feld - Peter, Cuomo will do it regardless of what you think.
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@Peter Feld The governor has an enormous discretionary economic budget. And you're dreaming if you think NYS' legislature would turn this down because of ill-defined (to them, anyway) terms like "predatory" and "sociopathic."
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@HKGuy @DEWaldron It's up to us to tell Cuomo and the legislature to block this. They represent us. You two talk like this isn't a democracy.
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Why Queens?!? Please don't come here, for the love of God!
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@James why not Queens? Jobs, investment, economic opportunity?
I’m just so glad Amazon is not here, Morro Bay, Ca.
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I wonder how long it will be before trump takes credit for Amazon's decision.
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Mental illness runs in my family. I think I am sane. I live near Seattle. I am having difficulty making up my minds on this issues.
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There goes the neighborhood...higher rents, more crowded streets, more crowding on subways that already are a daily nightmare.
Who benefits from this? Current residents?
Have owned a house here for 30 years,
I certainly don’t need this.
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@CG If Amazon hires people who already live in NYC, then overall, there won't be higher rents, more crowded streets and more crowding on subways...rather they'll be shifts of where those things happen.
This is not an Amazon warehouse where salaries are low and workers are treated badly. This is an Amazon office and no matter what we think about the company and how their domination has hurt small business, this new office or sub-headquarters will bring thousands of high paying jobs. And there's much good about that.
You might not need such a job, but many other New Yorkers do.
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@CG
I'll tell you who benefits: the people who get jobs there. Just because you've got yours doesn't mean there aren't hundreds of thousands of deserving people out there who would like to get theirs too. Try growing a heart or, if that's too much of an effort, a smidgen of compassion.
@CGI would think the relocated Amazon employees would hate LIC worse than you do. They are in for a ride awakening moving o NYC with it's high taxes, dirty streets, subpar schools, homeless/mentally ill people, high rents, noisy streets, high crime etc.
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There appear to be quite a few unhappy people out there. Amazon likely wanted to pick sites where employees might want to be. These are perhaps not as interesting as Seattle, but close to lots of interesting places.
@David Excuse me. New York City isn't as "interesting" as SEATTLE???
@David
NYC metro is a cesspool and N Va is suburban sprawl gone wild. They are also two of the most expensive places to live in the country.
My guess is that the location was more about politics- they will now have Va and NY Senators and area Representatives in their pocket.
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Queens, maybe; Manhattan -for sure.
I seem to recall a recent study (done at the time when there was to be only one HQ2) that the "winning" city could expect a total population increase of 300,000 people -- the 50,000 employees, their families, contractors, and other assorted service providers who would be drawn to the chosen location.
So now I guess it will be "only" 150,000 extra people apiece that NYC and Northern Virginia, two areas already affected by extremely high housing costs, congested roads, and struggling mass transit, will each have to absorb.
Count me as underwhelmed by the prospect. One more reason to get out of Dodge.
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As someone near Crystal City and hoping to retire in the not too distant future, I hope I will not have to move or to rent out a room in my house to be able to afford the increased real estate taxes that will surely result. It would be nice to have the empty offices filling up again, but not so nice if the company will not be contributing to the tax coffers to help maintain the community - and even worse if non-employees will have to subsidize this very rich company.
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@Anonymous Whoa!! Even if the company receives a generous subsidy, it will be paying a gigantic real estate tax — and a whole lot more as the subsidy runs out. Even with the increase in local services, this much new commercial real estate decreases residential real estate.
@HKGuy thanks for your thoughts, but the lid has been on tight, so people can only speculate based on leaks. One rumor is a tax abatement for 10 years for that “gigantic real estate tax”, yet the new workers will need housing a kids will need school spots. I’m not sure what “decrease” your foresee.
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@HKGuy a majority of land LIC is opportunity-zoned meaning there's no tax on it
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Makes no sense for Amazon to pass on the economic dynamism of Texas in favor of two regions with the highest cost of living, crushing tax burden and overtaxed infrastructure. Austin, Houston, Dallas and San Antonio are attracting more people every day than both DC and NY regions combined. Your loss Amazon.
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Perhaps if those cities actually had a decent commuter system that 50,000 people a day could use to commute to their jobs those cities might have had a chance. But shortsighted planning, the politicization of mass transit, and a hostile attitude towards immigration and people of color has probably made Texas a less than desirable location. Especially when trying to attract a young and educated workforce that doesn’t want to spend two hours a day sitting in traffic going to or from a cookie cutter house.
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@BillBo: In 2000, downtown Dallas was abandoned after 5 PM. Now downtown has a large residential population and is the fastest-growing residential area in the city. It is a place people actually go at night and on the weekends -- families, partiers, arts and sports enthusiasts. And two new rail lines (including a second, subterranean line running through downtown) are going in to supplement the existing 4. So many people, myself included, moved here as part of some soulless corporate relocation only to find that the combination of affordability and activity/diversity/culture you can find here is hard to beat. We aren't the coolest, and we aren't the cheapest, but Dallas is an awesome place to live. I get why the coasts look down their nose at us... we're a pretty blah place for tourists/visitors... you more or less have to live here for a bit to appreciate it. But I'm one of thousands who have come to love it and will never leave.
I personally think we could have handled the influx of people better than places that are already soul-crushingly expensive like NYC and metro D.C. Seems like the losers in this deal are going to be the existing residents of those places.
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@Iconoclast Texan, Texas is only growing because it has a very young median age, meaning a large cohort of women in child-bearing age (particularly Latinas), and because of intl' migration, mostly from Mexico. Texas is actually the youngest major state in the U.S., comparable to Utah. It doesn't have Florida-type domestic in-migration patterns.
And NYC actually had the largest numeric growth of any city in the U.S. in the last decennial Census. No city in TX came close.
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Sigh. I am getting anxious just thinking about the traffic, the subway crowds, the Duane Reades, the Starbucks, Trader Joe's, astronomical rents, the astronomical tuition..another NYC neighborhood, gone.
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LIC never was a “neighborhood”, it was a wasteland of undustrial garbage, and is all nee soulless condos anyways!
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@DDG Because LIC has so much charm now? Have you been there lately??
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I guess DeBlasio meant affordable warehousing, not affordable housing. This won't just destroy LIC but all the adjoining areas.
Instead of wondering what to do with high-tech workers, who'll somehow, somehow, somehow manage to survive, maybe we should be thinking about what to do with the multitudes of NYC children who graduate with barely a high school degree. Bloomberg's proud "vision" was to have them all folding sheets for the rest of their lives in the "hospitality industry" and to make this a certainty he rezoned all the riverside manufacturing areas and doled them out like party favors to his developer cronies. One way to provide decent jobs to people without a college degree is through boutique manufacturing, along with apprenticeships. The city's myopic answer to this was to corral all manufacturing into a couple of glorified theme parks like Industry City in Sunset Park, and the Navy Yard, where the competition for space is already fierce.
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how many millions will amazon be contributing to support the infrastructure needed?
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@true patriot
They'll pay taxes. Their employees will pay taxes. Both will spend money at other businesses that pay taxes.
It all adds up to many, many billions of dollars.
Gentrification on steroids if Amazon comes to LIC. Rents are already becoming un-affordable and Amazon is NOT famous for paying decent wages to warehouse workers, etc.
There goes the neighborhood.....
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@Marymary28 HQ is not “warehouse”
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I’ve got news for you. LIC was gentrified long before Amazon even thought about locating their HQ there.
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“Not everybody wants to live in the Northwest,” Jeff Wilke, the head of Amazon’s retail division, said at a conference last year.
Ummm, most of the people who don't want to live in the Pacific Northwest also don't want to live on the East coast. It's not Seattle, it's super high housing costs, high taxes, and transportation issues. You can make 1/3rd as much in the South and still take home more money with better quality of life. (minus climate and ocean proximity)
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@Eric Progressive types that Amazon wants DO NOT want to live in Texas.
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I don't think the South has anywhere near the quality of life offered by NY or the DC area but in fairness to the South, much depends on how one defines quality of life. If was making a very good salary, in my late 20s or 30s, not quite to the point of having children, both NY and DC have much to offer. I've lived in both places so I can appreciate this. Texas has Austin and after that the pickings get slim. Seattle has far more in common with the Northeast than anywhere in the South. I don't wish to be disrespectful but compared to Washington, Oregon, California, New York, and DC, Texas and its neighbors seem socially backward. Perhaps it is just an image created by your political views. Who wasn't a to be represented by troglodytes like Ted Cruz and John Cornyn. That might not seem like a big deal to you but to many it really is.
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@Jack Smith
Austin is full of them and has some HQs (including Whole Foods) and lots of satellite offices for tech companies (including Amazon). It's a great place to live.
For kicks I looked at apartments in LIC, 875 sqft needing major renovations for only $500k. yay... Recently renovated 900 sqft for $650k. That's pre-Amazon boost costs. Meanwhile $500k in Austin will get you 4,000 sqft with a huge yard and a view in a good neighborhood. Or you could get a nice 2,000 sqft for $300k to make up for the salary difference. Seriously, my kitchen is bigger than most bedrooms I looked at in LIC and my house is on the small side. Plus much less tax, and MUCH more stuff to do outdoors. My neighborhood park a block from here is 77% the size of Central Park and is one of several that serves fewer than 2% the people that Central Park does.
Don't get me wrong, I like NYC, it's a great place to visit and I like the culture and love the food. But it's definitely not for everyone. Just as some people reading this comment would say "psh, who wants a big yard?" there are some who say the same about living in the concrete jungle. If costs were more or less equal, I'd probably still prefer Austin. There's a reason 150 people (a third of which are Cali tech people!) move here every single day.
9
Neither place needs this. Our transportation systems are already overburdened and housing costs are through the roof without these extra people.
I don't understand why Cuomo is in favor of it. Is Bezos promising to bankroll his presidential bid in 2 years? I can't think of any other reason for the governor to want this.
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Nice problems to have. Now we need to build new subways. Like we should have been doing decades ago.
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@m.pipik Andrew Cuomo has no shot at ever being a Democratic President. He is simply too unlikable.
5
If you think the 7 and the G trains suck now, just wait until Amazon LIC. Those of us who don't need or want jobs at Amazon are going to get screwed by this.
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@suzanne - Amazon has a telecommuting policy -- definitely more flexible than say, Wall St. -- so subway congestion might not be as bad as we fear.
Still, I have mixed feelings about this news; happy to welcome a tech giant but very anxious regarding side-effects.
1
Hugely relieved this won't drive up housing prices in my neighborhood.
15
There goes two neighborhoods.
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smart move ! NYC has the best global smart , connected and ambitious talent. 45% of Ivy League Grads move to NYC. Columbia is NYC, Yale 1.5 hours away and Princeton 2 hours away and the new Cornell Campus coming up!
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@global32
America has an Ivy League New Yorker running the joint- Donald J Trump.
That does not speak well of either. There are better schools and places.
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@David Gregory Trump isn’t ivy leaguer.
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@Sam Yes he is. University of Pennsylvania.
1
I am a Democrat with progressive views and Cuomo's ardent support of this concerns me. He is giving himself in full faith over to the Bezos Machine and in turn, Bezos and Amazon will continue to support him and his campaigns. New York state does not have gubernatorial term limits and Amazon will fight to keep Cuomo in there as long as he is giving them a tax break. This is a classic Corporate Political handshake.
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I thought quality of life and living for workers was an important factor.
LIVING IN THE NYC AREA? Subways that don't work. Expensive trains. Traffic a nightmare. Housing costs through the roof. Crowded. Noisy.
What a JOKE. Even Boston is better.
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LIC is a sleepy neighborhood compared to manhattan. I would love to work there again.
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@KathyinCT. Sorry to burst your sour grapes but the simple fact is that young talented people want to live in New York.
We are number one for a reason, and Amazon is smart enough to know that setting up where the talent is, that’s priority one.
8
@KathyinCT - The city does have a high quality of life, provided you can afford to live in it. People often forget how horrible commuting is when they choose whom to work for, and if you live in the core of NYC, Manhattan, you can walk to work. The same would be true for those that would work and live in LIC, and on some level, the apartments in Queens are less expensive than in Manhattan. The same activities that make NYC a tourist mecca, museums, theater, Central Park, architecture, food, etc., are available to those that live the city. Yes, it's expensive, but if you can afford it you might love it.
8
I'm not sure that this will be the win that many people living in those areas are hoping for.
If the results of Seattle are anything to go by, it will not be blessing for those who live in those areas, save for those who can find employment in the tech industry.
We will see gentrification, even worse traffic, and other problems that we are currently seeing Seattle experience. Property prices will go up and ensure that only techies can afford the prices, along with a handful of professionals.
Meanwhile, we will see Amazon squeeze the city for ever-more tax concessions. That is what happened to Seattle and Washington state.
I think it is alarming that so many cities were willing to offer such huge tax giveaways to Amazon. This sets a very bad precedent and other companies will ask for more.
I'm glad that Toronto was not selected. It has enough problems with affordable housing, traffic, and gentrification as is.
I suspect that Amazon always had those 2 areas in mind and just wanted to extract whatever they could.
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@Chris Sour grapes, my Northern friend, sour grapes.
4
@Chris
Gentrification is a benefit.
4
@Chris We haven’t given Amazon many tax breaks at all. Yes, there have been some growth pains, but the experience has by and large been very beneficial. Boeing, on the other hand, bleeds our state dry, then moves its HQ to Chicago and starts busting the unions by opening a new assembly line in South Carolina. Phooey.
16
Interestingly Bezos chooses Queens, Trump's birthplace, w/ residents of 2.3millions; and if were a city, the most DIVERSE city on the planet Earth.
5
So, it's not so much that ocean levels are rising as much as it is the continent tipping down at the east side from the weight of all the extra people rushing there for work.
12
I am actually a big fan of this approach. Living in DC, we were all worried about the impact of 50k high paying jobs on the housing and related markets.
25k lessens the blow, while also giving DC a major pillar into the tech industry. I think this is great for the DC area because it diversified the market, creates a stronger connection between tech and politics - which I think is incredibly important at a high level, and it will bring prosperity to the area.
Personally, I love amazons products, am slightly worried about their dominance, but am excited about their economic boom for my city.
8
I don't mean to seem ungrateful, but as someone who lives near Crystal City, I am very concerned about Amazon moving here. The roadways here are already clogged to the point of gridlock, and Metro (the subway) has had serious problems in recent years. I don't know how the area transportation network and other infrastructure will be able to handle all of the new arrivals.
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@lydgate Perhaps the Boring Company can bail you out with its next big project.. A sad example of the complete control of our elected officials by the almighty dollar.
2
That’s why people need to support candidates that understand how important subways and commuter rail is. Otherwise your town will be covered in parking lots and dead after 5pm. Cookie cutter houses and so called towns that would depress even a well paid and educated young person.
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@lydgate Agree, just not sure how this is going to work. Traffic on Rt. 1 and GW Parkway is already terrible, and this includes airport traffic. Metro is woefully inadequate, especially with the service cuts on the Blue line.
Think housing in Arlington/N/ Alexandria is expensive now?
2
I suppose this means that my daughter's family in Jackson Heights might as well give up on being able to afford a house. She's a social worker, and her partner works in tech and makes a good living, but they have been priced out of the market for houses, or even a larger apartment than their two-bedroom. A three-bedroom two-bath in Queens is already out of reach at $1.5 million. They and their children love the rich culture of Queens, and their neighborhood schools are good, and they would be loath to leave it. More difficult choices in their future. Is anyone thinking about the pressure on housing, I wonder?
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@pbw She has to be intrepid and move somewhere that isn't happening — yet — like E. Elmhurst or Jamaica.
1
I get angry at taxpayer gifts given to corporations for the "honor" of hosting their presence. I live in Chicago and would have liked Amazon to choose a location here but not if we have to pay Bezos tribute for its presence. I hope Scott Walker loses tomorrow over his largesse to FoxConn - embarrassing in the extent of gifts, including millions of gallons of potable water annually rarely mentioned in the stories
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@Geraldine Conrad
I live in Chicago and never wanted them to come here, assuming this news is completely accurate. I know some Times commenters disagree, but for me, Chicago's reputation for affordable housing is outdated, and the city has higher sales taxes than either of the proposed locations. But if this news is true, my guess is that the number of workers will turn out to be far less than announced. NYC was among my top five guesses for the company; Crystal City would not have been. I think Crystal City will turn out to be a lobbying office.
1
Good choices. I hope that the political power Amazon wields through its market dominance can get the local and federal governments to upgrade the trains and subways for New York City. I live a long way away but recognize that transportation infrastructure for the densely populated northeastern cities is essential for the national economy and even national security. The people that live in these areas are true Americans, regardless of what right wing pundits and politicians say. They deserve to have the facilities they need.
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@Bruce Rozenblit
Why can't Amazon move to Missouri?
10
@Bruce Rozenblit
Actually one major problem with the NYC subways system is that its purse is basically controlled by the state government (yeah, it's weird) even though it only serves the city. Just watch as our glorious governor romances Amazon to LIC & then expects the city to cough up all the money needed for public transit (on top of the Sandy repairs that are on-going) . Ain't gonna work.
If this story is true, it is yet another example of the rich getting richer - especially landlords and other real estate interests who will profit from trying to shoehorn still more prosperous people into already prosperous places. Neither New York City nor Arlington, Virginia need the tens of thousands of additional elite jobs Amazon promises anywhere near as much as some of the other cities on Amazon's initial lists.
This is what America is coming down to, five elite metro areas (Boston, NY, DC, Seattle, San Francisco Bay) where almost everything takes place. And scores of other places that continue to struggle.
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@John Q. Citizen- Newark was on the final list, they would have been a better choice. Acity that needs revitalization. Too bad Detroit didn't make the cut, it too would have been a good choice. Time for corporations to revitalized the run down cities with great potential to thrive again.
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@lou andrews
You are spot on- I live in Brooklyn but I believe Newark is the right choice
46
@lou andrews Also agree. Newark would be a fantastic choice. All the advantages of being close to NY but in an area they could really help regenerate + tons of space.
18