In 2015, China passed its Counter-terrorism Law, which allows Beijing to take all necessary measures to put down any activities or behavior it deems threatening to state security and sovereignty. These threats can be summarized by the oft-recited Chinese goal of ridding itself of “the three evils” – terrorism, separatism and religious extremism. The law was created in response to seven terrorist attacks in China between the start of 2013 and the summer of 2014, five of which were in Xinjiang and all of which were affiliated with the East Turkestan Islamic Movement, which is active in Syria–and which the US and Turkey actively support.
4
Fellow Readers,
Some good resources for context:
1) “Under the Heel of the Dragon”
2) “Oasis Identities”
Though those two books bear obvious Uighur sympathies, they also seem quite honest about the history involved: for example, “Uighur” was a long dormant ethnic designation revived, ironically as it turns out, by the Chinese state on the advice of their Soviet sponsors (this is almost like categorizing today’s New Yorkers as “Algonquins”); there exist so-called "Yellow Uighurs" or "Yugurs" who maintain that they are the true Uighurs, being still Buddhist; Han migrants in Xinjiang just as often perform menial labor for Uighur bosses as they do for Han ones....
If it helps anyone's "digestion" here, those are books written by white people who've done first-hand research on-site.
1
Socialists, and that is what China's rulers are, cannot tolerate people--particularly groups of people--whose world view challenges socialist orthodoxy. Chinese rulers allowed some degree of freedom and free markets into their socialist controlled economy because they had no other choice. After years of increasing poverty and declining power among the nations of the world as a result of socialist central planning, China's rulers had no choice but to loosen their grip on individuals' lives or perish like the old Soviet Union. But relation of control can only go so far before those who have tasted freedom realize they don't have to be, can't be, controlled by the relatively few people who comprise the government apparatus--as long as they themselves take don't part in the repression.
I think in the near future the Chinese people will achieve complete freedom from oppressive socialist government, while Americans seem to be going in the other direction. The false promises of socialism are a joke to most ordinary Chinese people, while Americans, especially youths who have been indoctrinated in government schools, appear to be caught up by socialism's utopian promises--hook, line and sinker.
3
@Ned Netterville'people--whose world view challenges socialist orthodoxy'?
Really? Uyghurs are remarkably socialistic, even more so than the Chinese. What the Chinese can't tolerate is watching terrorists stab and maim hundreds of innocent civilians.
4
I sympathize with the cause of the Uighur. But we've to admit that with minority Muslims there's a problem particularly if they belong to Wahhabi roots. They never integrate the societies where they live in. Not like other minorities where usually the first generation is less or not well integrated. With these Muslims it goes forever and this is a problem because their attitudes particularly toward females and gays is ruthless. I've witnessed this reality in Europe, in France's neighbourhoods close to Paris: it's like living in the Magreb, clothing and language included; females excluded from public areas and never alone. And this in the XXIst century.
9
Uighur Muslims flee China and seek asylum in Turkey claiming they are not Chinese, they are Turkic. As a result, Malaysia just released several Uighurs to Turkey instead of returning them to China.
China's attempt to turn Turkics into Chinese citizens has nothing to do with religion.
3
The bias against China is evident in the ignorance of some of the comments made here.
The Uighurs are not Chinese - they are Turkic and don't speak Chinese. The region known as Xinjiang was historically fought over by China and Russia and at one time was a separate nation "East Kazahstan."
When Mao made Xinjiang part of China proper it was a defensive measure to create a buffer from Russia and the Stans. Since then, Muslim extremism and jihadism has infiltrated the Uighurs in Xinjiang resulting in a violent separatism movement.
This "re-education" and "sinification" of Uighurs is not against Islam or Muslims or the practice of religion at all.
Islam is practiced by an equal number of Hui Muslims (12 million) who live throughout China (not Xinjiang) and have for nearly 1,400 years.
If a Muslim ethnic minority (such as Somalis) lived in Minneapolis, preached jihadism, violence, extremism and spoke no English, what do you think our Homeland Security border patrol, ICE agents, and FBI would do?
11
What is the WH and the people’s employees on Capitol Hill doing about this? And trump supporters?
Or is religious freedom and liberty important and a central value only when it’s Christian practice or belief impacted?
The "indoctrination campaign" described by this article really can't be separated from the treatment of Catholics in China, as reported by Johnson (24 SEP 2018). Both seem to be part of the same 'thought reform' campaign. For that matter, they can't separated from the 'Great Firewall', either.
Cite:
Johnson, Ian. With Vatican Talks and Bulldozers, China Aims to Control Christianity. N.Y. Times, 24 SEP 2018. Permalink: https://nyti.ms/2zpPr25
Chinese government has been cracking down Uyghur people in the name of "war against 3 evil forces" such extremism, separatism and terrorism. However It is Chinese government that committing these 3 crimes.
Let's look at these evidence:
- Locking up more than one million Innocent Uyghurs without any legal basis is the most extreme degree of extremism;
- Separating Uyghur children from parents and locking up them at government built institutions and trying to create a different group by cruel socially engineering system is the softer form of Terrorism;
- Treating Uyghurs not equal and fair but discrimination against them itself is a wholesale separatism;
The religion is just one dimension of the whole issue. Just look at Tibetans and Mongols who are NOT muslims but also suffering for not being ethnic Han.
A man is not an automatic machine; He has feelings, dreams that grow up with him in certain culture and tradition...Forcing him to give up all he deems valuable just to take a breath but in someone else' body is cruel and criminal.
China is committing "fallacy of composition", America does not. FBI just caught Chinese spy Xu Yan Jun for he was trying to steal US technology. just because of his crime, should FBI arrest and lock up All Chinese with surname "XU"? If that happens, that would be gross violation of Justice. And I would be the first man, Uyghur man to condemn it; Because other Xu's are probably innocent; If you think what China is doing right, let UN go in....
6
It is sad that the Chinese Communist Party doesn't embrace the International Declaration of Human Rights and use it as a template for integrating non-Han minority populations. The Declaration of Human Rights would serve as a limiting ideology for radical Islam and secular totalitarianism, while elevating cultural diversity as an end in itself.
Also sad, I understand the United States has not ratified this Declaration put forth by the UN after World War II.
Both the USA and China are hegemonic powers, and when force is applied to social situations it is never a pretty picture.
I would hate to be a Tibetan or any other ethnic minority living in Han dominated China because it would be like being a Native American living in North America: experiencing cultural annihilation.
1
What China is doing is bad. However, it is not
worse than the measures other countries have
taken to combat terrorism. USA assassinated
the terrorism suspects, bombed them in Syria,
India is shooting them in Kashmir, Pakistan is
hanging them, France expelled Roma(not
terrorists but ethnic group) from the
country. If the detention centers are for
the re-education to wean them away from
extremism and violence, so much the better.
China is also trying to develop Xinjiang province.
As part of Belt & Road initiative, it is linking
Pakistan and Xinjiang which is likely to
develop it as the energy and trade hub with
Central Asia and Middle East. Uighers should
take advantage of the opportunities rather than
fight old battles with violence. More they do, more China will clamp down. In other parts
of China Muslims have integrated with Han
majority through intermarriges and joined
mainstream. In fact, Admiral Zheng He was
was a Muslim and great mariner, explorer
who took large Chinese ships on expedition
to far places in Asia and Africa in 14th century
well before Columbus and other Europeans.
The main issue is integration rather than
distinct identity and separation.
7
Thank you for your continuing coverage.
Casting light on these actions may save untold numbers of lives.
The world needs to see what is being done and WHO is doing it.
Please keep it up.
4
The violence in Xinjiang is a response to the mass influx of ethnic Han who are overwhelming the natives and controlling the resources and monopolizing the good jobs. This is similar to the conflict between the Palestinians and the Israelis. Could you imagine the Israelis forcing the Palestinians into ‘re-education’ camps? Neither can I. This is a horrible assault on human dignity.
5
@walkman
We've been operating post-Modern cultural Marxist "re-education camps" in our universities and colleges since Marcuse began teaching at UCSD back in the 1960s. Most recent example: DNC Politburo's Kavanaugh Stalinist show trial before the Judiciary Committee by Feinstein and fellows.
2
@Alice's Restaurant
Keep the thinking and convo out of conspiracy theory false equivocation land please! It doesn’t help.
There’s a big difference between being able to identify trends in our universities (which vary in their adherence to cultural ideology) and forecefully detaining an ethnic group to cleanse them of their identity.
If you want to make China’s Uighur internment into an analogy to American history try what we did (and refuse to acknowledeg) what we did to Native American people’s. An atrocity.
@Will
Excellent point. Without that "atrocity" there'd be no university Maoist reeducation camps today just lots of buffalo and American Indians wondering how they're going to get their Hubble Space Telescope into orbit after they figure out, of course, where they're going to put their GPS trackers on their horses--a gift from Europe, white guys.
When the entire Muslim and non Muslim world is engaged in ending radicalisation of Muslim youth, why can’nt China do it? In Europe there are numerous centres engaged in de-radicalising the hard line Islamists and many of the former radicals are engaged to do the job. Even Pakistan and Afghanistan are doing similar activity to end terror. The author does not even offer better options to de-radicalise the hard liners. Nor even how to assimilate minorities in general!
7
@submit brother, ethnic minorities should be able to cherish and preserve their identities. States should make this possible in their larger program of governing. The vast majority of these are just devout Muslims living their lives as any other people. They deserve their dignity.
1
It's reprehensible that China behaves this way and that everyone else lets them get away it. China, we are watching you!
It seems that all these criticisms ahout China trying to assimilate the minorities into the greater Chinese Civilization is contrary to history. China has been survivied and endured all the power ups and downs of power shifts which goes on non stop indefinitely into our future is based on assimilating all the different ethnic peoples such as the Hunnic, Turkic, Tungusic, Mongol, Manchu and some Southern Chinese minorietes. Contrary to the rise of Europe, the European powoers and its descendants had conquered all the lands and colonized the peoples but rather then assimilate these miniorities, they had chosen to exterminate the cultures and peoples , such as in the Americas, Australia, parts of Russia. It seems that the Chinese way of assimilating her minorities is the best way of survival and continuous growth and expansion of the Chinese Civilization. Having said all that, one question to ask, where is the Roman Empire, which exited at the same time as the Han Chinese Empire?
3
The nation that chooses mass detention of refugee and migrant adults and children doesn’t have any moral high ground to claim from which to judge China.
1
@Norman McDougall
Administration. Not nation.
2
I recently became aware of this issue and also learned that there had been an increase in the number of mortuaries built for cremation. This article does not address that, but one wonders is the reeducation becoming something more? The proposition in the other article I read was that of another holocaust. We need to know more about this and use global economic and diplomatic powers to protest.
1
I grew up in that region. Government funded Uighurs schools from elimentary to college. But still Uighurs in rural areas did not allow their girls to go to schools. Women started to cover themselves from head to toes a little more than a decade ago. Uighurs Who do not speak madarin Could rarely Make a living outside of the region. But jobs were scarse for in the region. Chinese government is helping them to open up their minds and teach them necessary skills to Make a living. US bias on the education centers comes from the notion that the communists like to brain wash. But what else You Can do with them? You give them religious freedom, They abuse It to the extreme
10
Many of us just don't care.
Look at the comment section, that says it all.
we need more voices from Uighurs and Tibetans. to assume that all of them are under horrible dictatoral rule is too Western. it is seemingly helping the ethnic minorities, but actually, well, could be "victimising" them collectively. collective victimhood could be as dangerous as collective demonisation. it has always been the way the West regards the (so-called) Orient.
it makes sense that all of these are wrapped up with the "human rights" discourse. but it also makes sense that the discourse has been appropriated exclusively by the West. that's why I require the voices from the very ethnic groups, not from strategic institutes.
2
Is this the 50-cent army?
2
@Jung Myung-hyun... I agree with you. Visiting west China I was surprised to find so many Tibetans in Sichuan Province for example. I think there's more Tibetans living in the mainland vicinities because of better conditions than in Tibet where still the culture of medieval serfhood predominates, in part as a consequence of Western anti-China campaigns.
3
That there are people defending this for one reason or another in this comments section scares me. These are people who read the news, we can't even blame ignorance. If arbitrary mass detention is acceptable, how far have we fallen?
7
Why? Xinjiang has the highest concentration of fossil fuel reserves of any region in the country containing over a fifth of China's coal, natural gas and oil resources. [Wikipedia]
2
He's already got the tent-city infrastructure.
1
This isn't just about China, it's much of Europe as well. France had their burkini issue, but along with Belgium still bans veils in public. Denmark recently passed I tegration laws that require 25 hours a week for immigrant children away from their families and neighborhoods. Switzerland prohibits the construction of minarets. Germany is paying Turkey to intercept and hold Syrian refugees. Australia ( not Europe but still European) holds Muslim immigrants on remote islands. The list goes on and on and on, and not surprisingly the rationale, if not the exact verbiage, align closely with Chinese policy. And people fly into a frenzy because our bufoonish president Huff's and Puffs and does nothing except for the things that immediately get undone.
There are big things going on in the world that nobody understands, but it's remarkable that China and Europe are reacting so similarly.
8
@Charles Becker The assimilation measures in Europe are directed at immigrants, not natives. If somebody enters your house they respect and follow your rules, not the other way around.
2
China is moving away from its former policy of recognizing limited cultural autonomy for its ethic minorities toward an assimilationist approach similar to what the US adopted toward Native Americans in the late 19th and early 20th centuries, when "Indians" were encouraged to abandon tribal traditions, homestead unoccupied lands and become small farmers. As part of this endeavor missionary groups were in effect awarded franchises on reservations that entitled them to freely proselytize the captive populations for Christian converts. Perhaps the Chinese can learn some useful lessons from this long and checkered history.
The most radical element of the American assimilationist program was probably the Bureau of Indian Affairs residential school program. Native children were removed from their homes and placed in isolated and distant schools, where they were beaten if they spoke their traditional languages. But based on what we have seen so far, this approach may strike the Chinese as too extreme. Unlike the Native American experience, Xi and his allies seem to be more focused on controlling Uighur and Tibetan political activities than on actually exterminating their cultures. Xi appears more inclined to bribe the Uighurs first and punish them only when that strategy fails. But persistent failure to obtain favorable results in time may engender in the Chinese an enthusiasm for harsher approaches, making our Native American experience a potentially more relevant template.
5
China has a campaign--much like Russia--to use social media to seed positive comments about the country and burnish its image. By the content of some of these posts, it's obvious employees of the state planted here and in China are intent in earning their keep!
https://www.economist.com/china/2017/03/23/china-is-spending-billions-to...
https://www.theepochtimes.com/china-announces-new-propaganda-chief-as-be...
17
@Ann
Ad hominem arguments are the weakest and most desperate kind. They're an admission of failure in finding any other means to counter an argument. I often comment in support of China in these pages because I find the China coverage of the NYT - yeoman stenographer of choice for the US geopolitical elite - horrendously biased and seek to do my part to at least move the needle a smidgen to some form of balance. In doing this I am not acting as tool of the Chinese but rather as someone who wants to see a balanced representation of what is going on and avoid an escalation of hostilities so many in the US right now seem so eager to recklessly kindle. And yes. There is no question China and the US are in the middle of a huge propaganda war and a battle for "hearts and minds". The US has the State Department's "Public Diplomacy" section handling its overt "influence" activities (sometimes they even get involved in the covert influence operations see Sony Leaks) and the CIA and others handling the covert "influence" activities. US media is also pretty much enthusiastically onboard either consciously or unconsciously with the "othering" and go hard on China campaign. (Right down to the photo editor of the NYT.) China's propaganda efforts to date in comparison have been pretty clunky. As the Russians used to say. "We Russians and you Americans both produce propaganda. The only difference is you believe yours."
6
@Ann
You mean like what the U.S. does, too?
http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2011/mar/17/us-spy-operation-socia... (http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/cifamerica/2011/mar/17/us-inter...
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/20/us/us-treads-fine-line-in-fighting-chi...
I really wish people would grow up already and stop with the petty morality plays...or are people just being cynical in being deliberately uninformed??
1
So does the re-education work? As required I condemn it and all that, but what about its efficacy?
8
@Tark Marg
Too soon to tell -- according to the article, the Chinese authorities themselves have officially budgeted five years for this.
I find the Times recent on articles about the Chinese treatment of Muslims rather interesting because it puts me in mind of an old saying---stick to your own knitting. At 73, when I grew up we were taught one of America's greatest attributes was that we were the "great melting pot". 9-11 has put a target on Muslim's back and Trump has now expanded that with his xenophobia and bigotry. We need to worry about America now and mind our knitting.
13
Give me a break. US is thinking it has moral higher ground on this issue. US kills so many Muslims while China only incarcerate them, reeducate and make them tax payer, productive and responsible citizens. There ain't nothing wrong with that. The problem is the medias in the wests under guidance of their governments to smear China's reputation where ever possible.
25
We can and should be outraged by both
3
@Nitama I am with you. But is average behavior for american officials, including journalists.
1
It's somewhere between horrifying and laughable that the world is outraged by Saudi Arabia's gruesome murder in a diplomatic mission, but turns a blind eye to China's acts of ethnic cleansing one step away from the genocide of over a million people.
31
@NorthernVirginia... I don't see U.S. too much outraged because of Kashoggi murder. With Russians... dozens of diplomats expelled... here? None... And about ethnic profiling inside U.S. just look at what happens to Blacks and Latinos...
2
The title should not use the term "muslim" It is misleading.
If you are willing to travel to northern Xinjiang, where ethnic Kazakhs is the largest ethnic minority. You will discover that, despite being muslims themselves, the Kazakhs are hardly the target of any harsh policies that one might see in southern Xinjiang, where most of the Uighurs reside.
I won't argue that Mass Detention is a good thing. No, it is definitely horrible and evil. But what western media keep missing, either deliberately or out of ignorance, is the fact that such a policy is supported by the majority of the Chinese population, including ethnic Han and other non-muslim minorities.
Think about all the terrorist attacks that happened in the past decades. Even if the CCP is not in power and China is a democracy right now, I am sure that similar policy will still be implemented in Xinjiang, aiming at secularizing the Uighurs.
Talk to any Chinese people you meet, regardless of his or her ethnicity, about this issue and they will likely give you a similar response.
This is sad, but you need to put this into the broader context of the severe crisis facing the Islamic faith and the muslim community, instead of reiterating, again and again, the old tale of an evil commie state oppressing its citizens.
Like I said, this will happened with or without the CCP.
28
@X. XU
Terrorist attacks carried out by extremists happened in the Western world, which one can argue were more devastating than those in Xinjiang . Yet, I fail to see such "education" camps in the Western world. Perhaps Western media keeps missing those camps, too.
Also, Kazakhs are not majority in northern Xinjiang as you claimed. Even if they were, your point is still invalid because it is easy to find news reports in which Kazakhs recounted their horrifying experience of being "educated" in those camps. Actually, some news reports say that Kazakhs make up almost half the population in some camps.
Your comment on democracy reminded me of numerous conversations I have had with Chinese people in the US. Unfortunately, Chinese people are as far away from understanding democracy and freedom as their policymakers are. In the face of such collective disregard for basic human rights, I think the West should turn up the heat on China. I never thought I would support a policy that Mr. Trump comes up with but here I am supporting him in his policy of escalating the trade war on China.
24
@X. XU
Just because the majority of China's population support the policy doesn't make it right. If it does then you can justify the crimes associated with WW2 on that basis. I'm sure many Chinese people would then be willing to forgive and forget what the Japanese did during this period based on your argument...
30
@Evelyn What X. XU is saying is that the Chinese are incompatible with freedom of speech, and thus should not be allowed in places where freedom of speech is practiced. The city of Chicago in the US is one such place where the Chinese should not be allowed. That's what I got from X. XU's comment.
Where is the outrage? Where are the protests? How come I haven't heard of any movement to boycott and divest or sanction China. And not one flotilla. And you wonder why it sometimes seems that the anti zionist movement is truly anti semitic.
14
@Jake
Concentrate on the topic.
8
So true! Thank you for pointing out a good example of the racism so many fellow “liberals” refuse to recognize in their own behavior and choices.
One important point to add: Israel does nothing like what China perpetrates: Muslims in Israel enjoy broad religious freedom. In fact, a senior leader of Indian Muslims, after visiting Israel, remarked that Israeli Muslims have greater religious freedom than do Indian Muslims (and there are more Indian Muslims than there are Arab Muslims).
1
Agitating for separation is one thing. Governments even democratic ones respond very differently when there is violence. With regard to Canada and Quebec separatism check your history. Research what happened during the October Crisis of 1970. In response to the kidnapping of a foreign diplomat and a Canadian diplomat by a violent separatist group (The FLQ) and other violent activity the Canadian government did do something "remotely similar". Canadian Prime Minister Pierre Trudeau invoked the only peacetime use of Canada's War Measures Act suspended civil liberties and put the Canadian army on the streets of Quebec. Almost 90 percent of both English speaking and French speaking Canadians at the time supported the move.
Quebec police were given expanded powers and according to Wikipedia "they arrested and detained, without bail, 497 individuals, all but 62 of whom were later released without charges."
For a more recent example of democratic responses to aggressive protests look at what happened in response to Standing Rock in the US.
10
@Belasco In Quebec it was 497, of whom all but 62 were released without charges. In Xinjiang we are talking about a million people, if the reports are to be believed.
@Belasco Keep in mind, however, that once the cell of kidnappers and murderers were caught, the emergency measures ended. There was no long-term imprisoning of masses of separatists in "re-education camps".
Canada has a restive French speaking Province with many separatist groups with supporters even in high local political office agitating for if not for complete separation from Canada , at least to maintain a staunch distinction in culture , language and even international identity - i.e. Francophone - imagine the anti Western propaganda if the federal Canadian authorities attempted anything even remotely similar to this mass detention reeducation ethnic "blending" of the Hans Chinese - Canada has proven that toleration of separatist ideology and cultural / language and ethnic distinction does not actually lead to separation in a free democratic society
17
What will we do if we had 10 million Muslim extremists and/or terrorists in our country? We are lucky that we have two large oceans on either side of our continent preventing smugglers, terrorists and extremists from come in. If it is true, I cannot think of a better approach than Xi's to protect our own people and society. If Trump was in Xi's position, he probably has sent all Uighurs out of the country. And in the meantime he will build a wall preventing them to come back. I am also sure that Trump will love to provide a good solution solving the Uighur problem to his good friend, president Xi, if he has one.
13
@Usok
Xinjiang has a population of about 25 million. Around 45% is Uighurs. Running by your assumption of 10 million extremists/terrorists, all Uighurs must extremists/terrorists. I do not know about you but this strikes me a bit unlikely.
20
China had followed the Soviet model in dealing with ethnic minorities for 40 years and it was not working. China had discourage any migration of Han Chinese to the minorities areas, discouraged intermarriages, and caused resentment among Han Chinese by giving minorities preferential treatments in educational advancements. Now she is trying to normalize them by treating all as equals although there are still affirmative actions and financial encouragement to invest there. The growth of internet allowed Islamic threat to grow exponentially and government has taken action to curb it. Economic growth and mingling will alleviate any resentments. It's unrealistic in a world of globalization to segregate minority groups even if there is inevitable loss of uniqueness and culture.
10
@xeroid47 the talking points about minorities in China enjoying a competitive advantage only rankles Han parents desperate to get their little princess or princess into Beida and tsinghua, and it's too numerically insignificant to carry little weight even if you view it as unfair.
The argument that organic, passive cultural assimilation and soft incentives are somehow similar in nature or the same as China's brutal, violent, criminal forced camps and attempt to erase certain thoughts and words from people's minds vis-a-vis Orwell's 1984 is utterly ignorant.
11
@xeroid47 Actually there was considerable assimilation under the Soviet model. And it is just not true that the Chinese discouraged migration to minority areas.
The problem with the Soviet model was that it gave the minorities on paper and in theory (=propaganda) far reaching autonomy. It then corrected that by having a much more centralized communist party and a strong central government.
So when the system broke apart and the letter of the law started to count they had a problem. Suddenly minorities had lots of rights and the central government had very little means to control them.
But as the system never broke apart in China China didn't have that problem. What happened in China was just a panic reaction to what happened in the Soviet Union
2
As per usual, an American publication's sanctimony over China's conduct rings hollow. While reading this article, all I could think is that America has done so much worse to Muslim countries and people through their nonstop warmongering in the Middle East.
40
@Sarah Johnson I totally agree. While China's policies re the Uighurs is horrible, the USA occupies absolutely ZERO high ground on this issue.
22
@MG and @SJ
Fine. But what's the point of reverse-sanctimony? This informative article isn't an official government pronouncement. Since when has the Times (or Chris Buckley) been the voice of "non-stop American warmongering in the Middle East"?
The "who-are-we-the-guilty-to-judge?" argument implies a kind of passive moral guilt that I, for one, don't feel. It unintentionally encourages a deadening of individual moral sensibility--that, or a perpetual weight of personal guilt.
I can hate what my own government does in the Middle East and still dislike what the Chinese government is doing in Xinjiang--especially after first visiting Xinjiang in 2004 and then seeing the sequel in 2017.
7
@jcb-And also dislike what Trump and his enablers are doing on the border where they have separated children from their parents and put them into detention centers. And claiming the right to hold anyone detained indefinitely.
4
The guile and twisted lies of the Chinese Communist Party have a long history of "talking nice", and then taking whatever they want at the point of a gun.
ANY differences with the Party Line are not tolerated. Freedom of Religion ? Freedom of speech ?? Forget it.
Tell it to Tiannamen Square; where thousands of unarmed Chinese citizens gathered to peacefully protest for democratic reform, only to be machine gunned down by the CCP.
Tell it to Tibet; a peaceful, non-aggressive neighboring Nation that Mao invaded in 1959, killing many thousands of unarmed Buddhist citizens, and jailing others for practicing their religion. Tibet is it's own nation. China has NO business being there at all.
Tell it to the Nations bordering the South China Sea, where China is building phony Islands on reefs, and then building Military Bases on those Islands. The CCP now claims that the entire South China Sea is their's.
Today, Chinese citizens are free to travel anywhere in the USA without impunity, yet Americans cannot travel anywhere in Tibet. The Human Rights situation in Tibet is horrifying, and the CCP doesn't want the World to see it.
Xi almost makes Mao look like a nicer guy. Both are cruel and bloodthirsty dictators, ruling a Country where it's own citizens live in constant fear of raising their voices in protest.
Now, Beijing says they'll provide "job training and legal education" for Muslims and Uighurs in "Transformation Camps". That's Prison.
Boycott China.
66
@W.Wolfe
No one died at TS, on June 3, 1989, as armed soldiers closed in Liu Xiaobo, Xu Zhiyong and Pu Zhiqiang negotiated the safe passage of protesters who were still there. Unknown numbers of citizens died that night battling solders, armed with armor piercing bullets, with pavement stones and Molotov cocktails at barricades on the streets and that story needs telling, but the protesters were freed, many later jailed.
Liu was to win the Nobel Peace Prize while serving in prison for other actions, he died there of cancer 13, .July, 2017.
Sorry to disappoint you.
1
@W.Wolfe
Oh, please -- the sword of a United States Marine Crops officer is very closely based on the design of that handed over by an Ottoman viceroy for actions against Muslim pirates; this country used to know how to deal with its enemies! Now it's reduced to a bunch of whining over someone else charging up San Juan Hill....
1
This reminds me of Canada's history of breaking up First Nation families and putting the children in foster care. Or the history of the U.S. flogging Hispanic children at school in the 1950s for speaking Spanish with each other. Or the Inquisition that forced Jews and Muslims in Spain to convert to Christianity, but then never fully trusted their allegiance and often tortured them, regardless.
There is the perception by the dominant culture that it is threatened by minority presence. To maintain its dominance, the major culture feels it also needs to maintain its purity and act as the Borg and force assimilation.
This is misguided. Diversity can help a culture grow through continuous change. The result of the Inqusition was a slow economic decline for Spain. At the very least, iforced assimilation destroys the lives of those who are pressured to hate their ancestors' traditions, especially when families are broken as part of the process.
23
@Mary M
Diversity can also help destabilize a community due to continuous change. Not all change is good change, especially when dealing with a group of people who have extremely malignant religious, tribalistic, regressive beliefs, which also happens to make them feel entitled to ignore the laws of the extant culture while actively seeking to indoctrinate the youth of that community.
1
Mary M wrote "This is misguided. Diversity can help a culture grow through continuous change."
But when a religion itself promotes 'cleansing' of all non-muslims via violent jihad, diversity for its own sake must take a back seat.
1
I live China now but I was born and raised in the Midwest United States and I’m not a very big fan of reeducation camps. The problem is the Chinese government is dealing with Islamic extremism and this is a very dangerous thing. I’ve been around these people and be quite honest with you, as much as I hate to say it, I don’t blame China for trying to isolate and correct the problem. When you have religious leaders teaching uneducated poor people that jihad is the path of Islam and the way they teach jihad is violent. I can’t really blame the Chinese government for addressing the issue the way they are. This is some very scary stuff. I would much prefer that there were a better way to deal with this but having lived within Islamic communities myself and being deeply entrenched in those communities for extended period of time. I’m not sure there is another way to deal with this. It’s sad but what are you supposed to do? This is not Afghanistan, the Chinese can’t wage war on its own citizens. It’s dangerous to no end to allow these communities to raise their children to have such a disregard for human life and other people’s rights and freedoms. In my opinion, Islamic Religion is designed to destroy other civilizations from the inside out on multiple levels, not just through violence. I don’t see any other way for China to deal with this.
54
@Oliver Guan
I wonder if it ever occurred to you that if your hypothesis that China's oppression on an ethnic minority is indeed a much needed crackdown on radical Islam spread by some religious leaders exploiting poor young people's resentment held true, then the hassle-free solution would be detain those religious leaders, not sending thousands of people to education camps. This would prevent the Chinese government from the trouble of containing the reactions of international community.
Your last to second sentence is, for lack of better word, disgusting. But it is really good to see that those justifying Chinese actions are the ones who could not put think what their claim implies like you or the ones who resort to outright lying like some Chinese people in this comment section.
17
Thank you for that insight. It is important to hear why things happen and discuss what might be a solution.
2
I think one way to help is to give them USA visas. Oh wait there is a travel ban!
1
For all their brave talk about a "Unified China", the powers that be in Beijing only want to make the world safe for the Han Chinese. Han are moved into areas like Tibet and Xinjiang where they assume all positions of authority, crowd out local businesses using particularly ham handed methods, and attack the religious beliefs and cultural practices of non Han peoples. Like the example of natural gas explosions that we experienced here in the Merrimack Valley last month, you can only put so much pressure into a system before it explodes.
14
@Tom Chapman
Or improve the system before it explodes.
By integration the Uighurs rather than ruling them China would do well; as you indicate.
Some of that has occured but until more, such people are viewed as collaborators most likely.
1
Once upon a time, Turkey was the protecter of Turkic people. And also was true supporter of Turkic nations like Uigurs in Xinjiang. But now Turkey is controlled by sunni Islamic ideology and anti-american policies. So Media doesn't care about Turk identity anymore. Media doesn't even mention detention of Uigurs in news because Erdogan doesn't want that. If people see that they can feel nationalist again. And that's a danger for islamisim. But you can see lots of news about Palestinians & Syrians even Ethiopians. That's good for islamist policy to undermine national Turkish identity. And I have read foreigner new paper to learn about our Uigurs, and homeland of Turkic culture. That make me feel sad, really.
11
Let me make a couple of quick points for Mr. Buckley to consider. First it is not unusual for the Party Secretary of Xinjiang to have a seat on the Chinese Politburo. This has been going on without interruption for 20 years (the 16th thru the 19th Politburo). It also may stretching things to suggest that Chen Quanguo is one tough, nasty fellow. You would be closer to the fact if you pointed to a previous Party Secretary named Wang Lequan. Finally Hu Lianhe, I believe, is Deputy Head of the 9th Bureau under the United Front Department. This bureau handles Xinjiang matters but it hardly is a senior position in the United Front Department.
7
China is a Han-suprematist police state. Their treatment of Tibetans and Uighurs violates basic human rights and international law but also reflects the racist attitudes from ethnic Hans. Their treatment of Taiwan and other neighbors is beyond the pale. The Chinese believe they are above the law because of their economic and military heft. Perhaps the time has come for the West to slowly decouple from China economically... otherwise they will only get worse.
46
@Kai
The west cannot uncouple from China, as is exemplified by the fact that many of us are entering comments and reading this article on devices manufactured in China, while sitting on furniture manufactured in China, and likely even putting things in our bodies that originate in China.
However, perhaps it's time that those who focus their accusations of racial supremacy on western countries and Israel take a better look at China and at Asian nations more broadly.
@Kai It's laughable to call China a Han-suprematist state. Until recently, China restricted Han Chinese to one child per family, while allowing minority couples to have multiple children. There are more than 50 ethnic groups in China and most are well treated (including the other major Muslim group, the Hui) except the Tibetans and Uighurs, because of their separatist/terrorist tendencies.
2
What's the better approach? a) wars, military interventions, bombing, drones, deadly economic sanctions, targeted assassinations, orchestrating and prolonging civil wars - essentially killing the people you disagree with - the current US approach to radical Islam or b) trying a form of "reeducation" negotiation to neutralise radical islam - the current Chinese approach? What is more of a human rights violation or cruel? Killing these people or trying to change their thinking? (Note China has 11 million Muslims living outside Xinjiang and thousands of mosques - none of which are subject to these programs. It's not a war on Islam.)
What if Xinjiang was not a Chinese territory but a neighbouring state? Given the genuine terrorist threat to China and past terrorist attacks under the US model China could have declared war on Xinjiang and in the process killed hundreds of thousands displaced millions more reduced the cities to rubble then occupied what was left and according to the American approach - that would be fine. No huffing and puffing about human rights then. Burns a lad from another occupied state said it best, "O wad some power the giftie gie us. To see oursels as ithers see us!"
27
@Belasco
True my neighboring large city has a Mosk and an active membership with thriving businesses.
As X.XU's comment mentions Xujiang has some unique problems and Muslims who are not see governmental oppression.
@Belasco
the better approach?
Give East Turkmenistan (Xinjiang) independence. Same for Tibet.
The Han Chinese want these peoples land on their terms; SURPRISE! there is violence.
8
@Bill
Surprise: There is more violence!
Bonus Surprise: The Chinese Communist dictatorship will win!
Just remember this policy when making your choices as a consumer.
16
What the Peoples Republic is doing is very Trumpian. Don't give him any ideas. On the practical side, isn't that what we want her: assimilation?
6
"Worried about Muslim extremism and ethnic nationalism, Beijing has long maintained tight control of Xinjiang, where nearly half the population of 24 million are Uighurs. In the decade up to 2014, the security forces struggled with a series of violent antigovernment attacks for which they blamed Uighur separatists."
The Chinese may have different perspective on this. They are better now, although they may locked up a lot of people, than having people killing people on the street before. They have to deal with whatever violence there is but not us. If we want them to get better as we claimed, our first step needs to convince them that our intention is benign and our solution is better. If we couldn't do that, they can only rely on themselves.
9
With regard to Xinjiang Let’s step back and introduce some proportion here and decide logically who on the "human rights" side the international community should really be sanctioning. China faced with a Muslim territory containing some Muslims presenting what is interpreted as a terrorist/national security threat seeks to reeducate them demanding compulsory attendance at reeducation sessions lasting days, weeks or months depending on the case. (In some instances they return home each day.) The Chinese as they do so many other social ills see radical Islam as a disease that requires treatment and quarantine. The US faced with Muslim territories containing some Muslims presenting what is interepreted as a terrorist/national security threat tends to declares war on those territories and/or engage in overt/covert military interventions included extrajudicial drone assassination etc… and kills, injures and tortures them and their families, indiscriminately bombs their cities into rubble killing hundreds of thousands. (US led Iraq sanctions alone killed over 500,000 Iraqi children as SOS Albright infamously acknowledged.) And let’s not forget the millions of refugees and related human suffering these actions have created. (See Iraq, Afghanistan, Yemen and Libya etc. we will leave out the many smaller ongoing deadly military interventions around the world particularly Africa). So who here is the greater abuser of human rights? To whom should we be directing our sanctimony?
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@Belasco
It is outrageous that this is the most recommended comment by NYTimes readers. China is practicing a cultural genocide against the Uyghurs (not to mention the Tibetans). If the American people can't tell the difference between a Communist dictatorship and a democracy, they don't deserve a democracy. I know I will be ignored by those who are offended by Trump's limiting immigration, Twitter outrages, etc., but the Times, and most of its readers, seemed to support the Bush Iraq adventure, which resulted in those 500,000 Iraqi death, few of which occurred under Trump. The Uyghurs, the Tibetans, and the indigenous people of Taiwan are forgotten by the Democrats (and Republicans; my outrage is non-partisan). Those who disagree with me would disappear in China if they criticized Xi Jinping. Trump is not a threat to free speech, Xi is. Amazing the coddled West can't tell the difference.
18
@Epistemology
American efforts to 'spread Democracy' by the neo-cons did not work out 'very well.'
Xi is popular in China I am often reminded, and Trump seems to be popular in US, with exceptions on both sides. Best not to worry about the other country when ones own has faults enough.
1
@Belasco
Oh my, now would that be why the GOP refuse to participate in the International Criminal Court.
Thank you for comment, very educational.
1
What would the United States do if a State the size of Texas was majority Muslim and teetering toward Islamist radicalization? I can easily see us relocating the population into "re-education" camps in a similar fashion to the Japanese internment during WWII. On the other hand, we are too racist to submit to the State forced intermarriage and cultural mingling that China is attempting. Is this any more of a human rights abuse than the Trump administrations mass deportation policies?
25
Xinjiang province of China is actually bigger than Alaska on land area.
4
@Jack
Good point Jack! If the Chinese people don't like Xi's policies, they can simply not vote for Xi in the next election. Wait... the Chinese people didn't vote for Xi in the first place because . . . there ARE no elections in China! It is just a dictatorship with a succession scheme most closely resembling the Mafia.
8
@NorthernVirginia Chinese people have a history of overthrowing governments if they don't like for thousands of years, you can check the history.. oh wait, you only got 44 years' history of cold war, never mind.
A hopeless task Chen and associates have set for themselves. Tibet is relatively calm with the occasional monk sacrificing himself, but the underlying religion is pacifistic. ‘Muslim violence’ has become a common term in western media, and Xinjiang has had acts that can so be labeled the religion itself is feared by Trumpian type thinkers in many countries.
Xi’s concerns are more real.
Land wise half or more of China lies in regions with marginal ethnic linkage to the Han majority, some with long historical hostility to Beijing control, the government has consciously moved population and developed programs to strengthen those ties for long periods. The recent rash of deradicalization is a desperate effort likely to have the opposite effect, but what are the choices?
Kishore Mahbubani a Singapore diplomat in a recent publication offers the solution to the West: ’Stop bombing Muslim countries;’ China problem is related but different.
1
@wsmrer
So it's OK to lock up people for their religious beliefs?
Is that what you're saying?
12
compratively locking up for reeducation is better than mass bombing and killing of muslims that are being carried out by USA in many countries all over the planet.
5
@trblmkr
You missed the point perhaps. China's attempts to 'condition' will fail and have the opposite effect of increasing hostility. But at this point China is not using the brutal methods of perpetual war flowing from Washington, or can you not see that?
Current policies will increase Uighur nationalism and Xi ET. Al. will have to respond with more force, most likely, or better ideas. China’s instability not a desirable outcome unless you hold the existing system non-sustainable, and it has not done that badly for most.