Saudi Arabia Must Answer for Jamal Khashoggi

When Trump describes the Media as the enemy of the people, he is using fascist rhetoric with a well known pedigree. Governments who speak this way routinely imprison or murder their opponents, even those in exile. The new Saudi dictator was simply doing what he was told he could now get away with. There are those in this country who would love to do the same. They are using the state to round up and hold illegally the latino families they see as their cultural enemy. They support neo-nazi marches. This is all happening NOW. We aren't sliding toward an abyss we're falling in it. Only a new Congress can stop this rapid decent and the rise of indecency that Trump and the Republicans support at every turn. Vote them out because these policies are immoral.

Can we not refrain from meddling in the affairs of other sovereign nations even once? We are not the world's policeman. It is folly to believe that we can be. That is not to say that the Times or anyone else need to refrain from criticizing Saudi Arabia in their own name. However, to demand that the US government or the US President need to insert themselves into the activities of other nations which have no bearing on US' interests is naive, illegitimate and stupid!

And who is going to make Saudi Arabia answer for his disappearance? The Editorial Board? The headline is laughable. The subject of the editorial is serious. Nikki Haley certainly did not resign in protest over this matter since she publicly endorsed Trump for 2020. Without the Democrats in control of the Senate and the House, the NY Times will be more irrelevant than ever. Trump will start censoring what he doesn't like and who will stop him? The Kavanaugh court?

Can anyone provide a single example of Saudi Arabia being held to account? I remember the 1980 drama-documentary, 'Death of a Princess.' The Saudis didn't like it, and, surprise, surprise, it was never shown again on UK TV. Has anything changed since then?

With Trump in the White House, the Saudis know they can do whatever they like to the "enemies of the people." Donnie wishes he could do the same.

Since our weapons are being used to bomb civilians, maybe we should have cut those sales three years ago when the Saudi war on Yemen started. And maybe we should do a little investigating into our own role in assisting the Saudis as they committed war crimes.

Accountability, that has become a useless word in today's political environment. Trump is not accountable for anything except his imaginary big inaugural crowds. Putin is not responsible for poisoning dissidents. Kavanaugh is not accountable for binge drinking and rape and attacking democrats and the Clintons. Mitch McConnell is not responsible for stealing a Supreme Court appointment. The Catholic Church s not accountable for sexual predation amongst its clergy. We have leadership that holds itself above the law, can invent "alternate facts" and fake news and dispense it through straight faced liars like Huckabee Sanders. We need a wholesale change in our leaders, we can get a start this November.

Saudi Arabia doesn't need to "answer" for anything. What I'd like the answer for is why the Editorial Board thinks it should suggest what the internal affairs of other countries should be? As if the United States has a right to lecture the world. Let's talk about rendition, black sites, torture, and invasions of countries for perpetual killing and war, shall we? Read the patent numbers on Saudi Arabia's bombs going into Yemen for "full accounting."

We see the benefits of some religions on the general society. Christianity is strong in certain places in the developed world, and murder is rarer there, such as in the American Midwest. Recent political upheavals in Brazil are made worse by the high murder rate here even with the supposed - but very weak - presence of Christianity there. So, how are the Muslim-dominated places doing? The supposed fundamentalist Muslims stand rready and willing to murder anyone they have a difference with - even other Muslims! The supposedly educated Saudi leadership enjoys the usual beheadings but they are not enough. Even independent Saudis are a danger to the frail minority holding power over Arabia. So much for women driving.

Not surprisingly, you use this tragedy to attack Trump, multiple times. It is important to remember your coverage of MBS, especially the worshipful paeans by your columnist Friedman, that provided cover for him, especially among the left. Until now, letting women drive cars appeared to be the most important feature of this regime to the Times.

Interesting diversity of responses in these comments: it's a nice change from the relative B&W polarization that dominates many stories. However, here's one that is a big deal for me: the utterly unqualified Jared Kushner (as well as pa-in-la) are just the kind of borne-greedy guys that see dealing with a bunch like the Saudis as a win-win: the Saudis say they like us and the Trumpies sell them tons of incredibly expensive (but still below our OWN issue) military hardware and get LOTS of vested interests flipping them big campaign favors

I wonder what planet the Editorial Board lives on. A full accounting is needed? And who, pray tell, is going to demand that? Not your government, which counts the Saudis as one of its great friends while disparaging countries as nefarious as Canada.The United States at one time would have been looked to for a response, but no longer. We're adrift. We can still be mildly amused by your concern, though, before we, and you, forget who Khashoggi was by the end of the week.

If the allegations are proven to be true, then Trump would be complicit in the murder of Mr. Khashoggi. Trump has emboldened and befriended tyrants and dictators. And he has turned journalists into enemies of the State (except for Fox News but then nothing Fox does qualifies as "journalism").

If Mr.Khashoggi is not dead he has been effectively silenced. The American response as enunciated by the president has been platitudinous. We think the leader of Saudi Arabia is well aware of what happened but he is keeping mum. It's a sad day for journalism. It's a very sad day that the American president won't ask for the Saudis to explain the situation. It's typical of the Saudis who routinely cut the hands off of thieves, decapitate murderers, and silence their opposition by any means.

Deport Trump to Saudi Arabia. Not restitution for 9/11, but a decent start. Seriously.

Does it ring true that virtually all norms of modern civilization are violate when absolutist rule affects them in any way? I should submit that they are, and that this is a major reason why it should be done away with. True, the money which absolutism begets can have positive effects upon the area where it is concentrated, KSA being an example, at least in terms of transforming desert into agricultural land. Absolutism, however, does not recognize "freedom" as such, and certainly not freedom of the press. If the latter is as strong an opposition to the aberrant ways of absolutism, then why is it that the man is missing, why is it that a humanitarian crisis is burgeoning in Yemen, why is it that repeated U.N. declarations and or resolutions condemning the Zionist expansionist proclivities and all that they imply never prompt any kind of material redress? It is obvious that the commodity which allows the begetting of the money for the absolutist state prohibits all forms of censure. Even if it does answer, it seems likely that such a thing will fall on deaf ears.

I really wonder where was NYT when Hillary was in cahoot with Saudis receiving millions of campaign fun to create a support lobby? NYT failed to see the collaboration of US politicians with the brutal regime well known to world with their brutal killing, spreading terrorism via billions of dollars investments in building mosques, radicalizing Muslims all over the world.

The message from Trump is loud and clear - a free press is the enemy. The Saudi's got the message. Last year there was a story about Jared Kushner staying up most of a night bonding with MBS as if it were some king of great indication of good things to come. Well, here we are. Trump continually threatens Iran, an actually very western country, while Saudi Arabia gets hugs and sword dances. When 9/11 happened, Iranians were in the streets showing solidarity with Americans. The silent Saudi's, complicit in the attack, were given a free pass, and jet plane rides out of the country. The rot goes deep in our relationship with them.

Evil

Obama signed us up for this deal with the devil against Yemen. The evil men do lives after them.

MBS has proven to be an immature, reckless, autocratic, murderous leader who keeps on wreaking havoc in the Middle East, and silencing any dissent through brutal means, including imprisonment, torture, and executions. The atrocities committed by the Saudi regime are reminiscent of the practices of ISIS and Al-Qaeda, and represent the ruthless Wahabism that has given Islam a very bad name. The Middle East is in total chaos abetted by the the practices of previous and current Saudi regime, and exacerbated by MBS. The West should stand firm and threaten to impose sanctions on Saudi leaders unless they change their ways.

So what can we do-stop buying Saudi oil?

Given the Saudis' history of brutal repression over several generations, the "possibility" of torture and murder is about as close to certainty as one can find. There's been more than enough time for the Saudis to produce Mr Kashoggi, alive or dead. They haven't done so. I doubt they ever will.

If we had a President who knew how to lead or who had integrity, he or she would hold the Saudis fully accountable for what happened. What are the chances of our current President will do that?

I wish I had moved to Canada in 1994.Fell in love with the people and country on my honeymoon.Canada has a moral compass,please know how many of us in America respect you.

It figures that the Saudi King and the Trumps (Kushner) would coddle up to each other. What will the King have to say when Trump and Kushner are in jail. Maybe it's time to feeze the assets including bank accounts of all Saudi henchmen responsible for this atrocity, royalty no exception.

"Killed and dismembered" operation performed by an ally of US, Saudi Arabia in the consulate of yet another ally! The victim is a well known journalist. Is this for real? Has America lost its marbles or is beyond hypocrisy, wallowing in guilt with The House of Saud?!

Who’s going to hold the Saudis accountable, exactly? OPEC? Funny.

“While the crown prince was being extolled in many Western quarters for reforms like letting women drive and reining in the religious police,…” How about this paper’s role in mostly supporting the Saudi Regime. I recall many columns here glowingly on the Saudis letting women to drive. Yet their is barely a mention of the Saudis role in war crimes against Yemen, resulting in the worlds worst humanitarian disaster. In months millions may face certain death from starvation, already many are suffering an awful death. The Saudis are known to fund politicians and media to keep quiet about their being the worlds largest funders of terrorism and their Yemen war crimes. When will this paper give the evil regime of Saudi Arabia front page coverage equal to the disasters they are committing? If our military stopped providing weapons and air support for the Saudis Yemen war, it would stop. Why are we using our troops for such evil?

The Times editorial demanding an investigation of Khashoggi's death is welcome. But where was the Times, and other mainstream publications, earlier, when Salman's government was committing war crimes in Yemen and repressing dissent at home? Salman was embraced as a "reformer" and "modernizer," mainly on the strength of giving women the right to drive! The media bought in to this spurious line when it should have been looking behind the veil.

"Saudi Arabia Must Answer for Jamal Khashoggi." Really? No, the U.S.A. must answer for Khashoggi; as it must answer for the two million (so far) murdered in the Middle East; as it must answer for its role in creating Al Qaeda and ISIS; as it must answer for the Devil;'s Pact with Saudi Arabia that gave the latter free rein to commit domestic human rights abuses with impunity. In brief, the U.S. must answer for its inexcusable stupidity in supporting one of the world's worst dictatorships for short term gain.

Everything Putin has done or not in Ukraine, offing former spies, meddling in other nations elections, PALES compared to the Saudis chopping up a innocent man into neat piles of meat, that where spirited out of its consulate in luxury limos. The hypocrisy of the West when it sees Russia or China as enemies to be held accountable, all while the West the USA especially, consorts with Saudis with the morals of machete head choppers sanctioned by its own government. Oil is blindness willed.

Far too little. Far too late NYT. It took the brutal murder of Jamal Khashoggi to catch your attention? Your own columnist Friedman implied the moral impact of this one death overrode the war. I guess that's the kind of thinking that allows people to dismiss the suffering of millions or at least skillfully ignore and obfusicate it if it isn't in your geopolitical interests. I mean if you don't know them and weren't likley to meet them what do they really matter? The Saudis with direct US support over the last 3 years have created millions of refugees in Yemen. Cholera among the displaced has been weaponized. Children are starving. Tens of thousands of innocent civlians are dead and the US is not "supporting" these war crimes they are in this up to their necks.The US is in-flight refueling Saudi planes ( I suspect there might even be US personnel on some of those "Saudi" planes. It's certainly happened before.) The US is also providing the "alleged" intelligence that guides their bombs. But what is the great advocate of democracy and human rights to do when their medieval, gender apartheid, theocratic state buddy who sentences student democracy leaders to crucifixtion and beheading needs a military favor or a few? I mean your own columnist Friedman gasped the Saudis were considering "the China model". By that I assume you mean focusing on commercial relationships as opposed to the US - military options always first -model. Too bad the Saudis didn't go with the Chinese model.

Lets face it, the Saudis know the risks (or lack of). The Russians commit bio terror in western countries and get away with it. A few additional sanctions have not hurt Putin in the slightest. Knocking off someone who is an irritant to your policy should be easy. There is little risk at stake considering the POTUS will not do anything. The Saudis are financing his son in law's businesses. A few more angry articles in the western media and it will soon be forgotten. They don't have to hide as they had to after 9/11. It's open now. They have no fear. These are some very dangerous times indeed.

Meanwhile, Mr. Trump castigates the free press in America. Journalists are being killed in notable numbers. I hope Mr. Khashoggi is still alive and well. I fear that he, like so many others who dare to criticize leaders in their countries, is not.

How about some women's rights, whereby females are not "owned" by males. Can't do anything without permission of men, it is absurd. What are those men afraid of? That all the women will leave? Based on the reports (check out Frontline's "Saudi Arabia Uncovered") for an eye opening experience. Can't even play your lute?

Trump will never criticize Prince Mohammed or Saudi Arabia because they are doing exactly what he has already done and continues to do in our own country: use his power to demonize reporters and the press and use his demented base to help instill fear into the rest of America. Mr. Khashoggi's disappearance and likely death and the murder of Ms. Marinova is a horrible pre-cursor of what's to come if US citizens don't elect a legitimate and honorable candidate to lead this country and the world into a safer and non-criminalized future. It stuns me how far people let brazen criminals get away with before they finally react and demand change. Sadly, it's usually when it lands at their own front door. Tick tock.

Absolute monarchies murder political opponents — real, potential, suspected, even imagined. One major difference between a constitutional monarchy and an absolute one is that the constitutional monarch subordinates itself to rule of law. When Louis XIV, The Sun King, declared that he was the state he proclaimed himself to be above law. Sulla, Caesar, Octavian, Napoleon, Capone, Hitler, Franco, Mao and Stalin subordinated law to political expediency. But as much as Diana, Princess of Wales, might have displeased her sovereign, Queen Elizabeth II, the queen could not punish her daughter-in-law the way that her forbearer, Queen Elizabeth I, could and probably would have: arrest; incarceration in The Tower; interrogation inside the dreaded “Star Chamber” followed by a sham-trial whose verdict was preordained; attainted for treason; beheaded, then buried in an unmarked grave. Utter and complete physical destruction, in other words. As much as the tiny ruling faction within the Al-Saud clan might prefer other, less-violent methods to secure its rule over 22,000 potential royal challengers it’s cut from the same cloth. It will do whatever it must to secure its hegemony. Jamal Khashoggi seems to have been a useful tool for those intent on challenging that powerful inner-circle. It responded by “killing a chicken to frighten the monkeys”, as “Great Helmsman” Mao often did. He, Hitler and Stalin turned the matter over to their security chiefs and “The Problem” was made to disappear.

While we're at it, how about a full accounting for WTC, 9/11 and the London Tube? How about a full accounting for radicalization efforts? How about a full accounting for Yemen? How about a full accounting of the Bush administration proving cover for the house of Saud after 9/11? How about an accounting of Exxon's complicity? None of it will happen, sadly. No patriots to be found on this issue. Black gold is more important than American blood.

Seems to me there's not much difference between MBS and Kim Jon Un,

Perhaps Jeff Bezos, reacting to the long arm of the House of Saud likely murdering one of his columnists, could point out to fellow businesspeople that they should think hard about working in or with a regime with no respect for the rule of law. That would hit "MBS" where it hurts. Perhaps this is also an area where the US can take a moral stand and find common cause with Turkey.