Aside from the disgustingly preachy tone of the article, I get the impression the author has never had children. Say you have a kid that gets really angry and starts attacking the parent. ABC?! Fyi, that's a super common phenomenon for little kids. Some bite, some scratch, others hit or kick. They can also scream really loudly just because. You wanna whisper then? Be my guest. You can whisper your ABCs ad nauseam and the result will be exactly null. It sure won't modify behavior. Developmentally, unless you get a super chill kid, you're going to enjoy a number of hellish moments before a kid turns 4-5. Maybe even after. And all the whispering, praising, and positivity won't help you. I can't believe I wasted a few minutes of my life reading this article.
137
Good article, but would have been better, in my view, if it acknowledged a common (and possibly well-founded) anxiety among parents that their kids live in a far less forgiving world than did their parents and grandparents.
Our purchasing power has never been better, of course, but the economy is splitting into winners and losers, and many of us make the painful choice between being mini-tyrants but with kids who become successful, or "cool parents" whose kids grow up and discover too late that the real world operates on a very different and harsher set of rules.
40
As someone who experienced the negative impact of yelling on my nervous system, I made a concerted effort to keep yelling out of my house when raising my own kids. From the very beginning I told my kids, there are generally only two reasons why a person yells. 1. They are too ignorant to come up with the right words, or 2. They are too lazy to try (to find the right words). So far it appears to have worked as my two teens are prospering and appear to have much greater self-esteem than my siblings or myself.
93
I’ve volunteered at after-school and holiday childcare for 5-11yos for several years now
when I first started I observed lots of shouting from adults - ‘kids - stop talking, now stand in line and wait your turn - to do this activity (selected by the adults)’ - lots of bored unhappy irritated children as a result
being unpaid I have no plan and tend to sit quietly and just watch and listen - kids about to try cartwheels would look at me like ‘is this OK?’ - I’d say nothing - just smile - they’d feel approval, go on and try, fail, try, succeed, then just beam with pleasure - ‘I did it myself !’
over a few years it seems to me the structured activities have reduced to the extent now the kids mostly self-form into groups of two or five kids - and busily engage themselves in their self-chosen activity with no input from staff - wonderful to see.
today we spent time with a Vietnamese friend's family - the father spent two years in a Thai refugee camp - he tends to be negative and keep a distance from his son, and then yell at him, claiming this is how he was raised - I suspect it's partly his traumatic experience.
The son now tends to talk back quietly and is taking on his father's negative outlook on life - in family happy snaps where everyone else is smiling, the son almost never smiles.
16
Probably applicable to adults as well...yelling as a corrective = non-physical violence!
34
This article is a bit over the top in some respects, but I also think it has some good takeaways. One thing not brought up that I think is worth mentioning is the amount of screen time most of our kids are getting. The (most usual) reason we yell at our kids is because they aren't listening to us. Study after study has shown that screen time has a direct and negative effect on their ability to listen, something that we have seen played out with our own kids (ages 5 and 8). We have found that when we take away or severely limit our kids' screen time, their ability/willingness/desire to listen to us increases. Which results in less yelling from us. Does it result in perfectly behaved kids? Absolutely not. But it definitely decreases the number of situations in which we are blatantly ignored and would otherwise resort to yelling.
47
My parents used a cowbell to alert me when it was time to come home for supper. Usually I was shooting hoops just a few houses away within hearing distance ot the bell’s clanging beckoning. I rarely ever responded and as a punisment was given a Camel tobacco can to carry with me at all times which contained a note inside explaining why I was doing this. Because I was only nine years old smoking pipe tobacco was not permissible back in 1943. I do not recall ever being yelled at or spanked, but I do remember transporting that tobacco can while walking back and forth to elementary school and to the barber shop for a haircut.
9
@Peter F. Steele this would actually be classed as a form of psychological abuse. Shaming children is not great for building self esteem and good mental health. The point of the article was to encourage parents to think ahead and set children up for successful behavioural modelling rather than relying on chastising them for their failure.
22
Americans are obsessed with making children behave. After surviving a harsh childhood informed by Protestant motioned of sin and authority, I decided to throw it all out the window with my own kids. I managed to raise two and am raising a third with little to no “discipline” or punishment. Nobody got in trouble at school or with the law etc. The older two are successful college students. I wasn’t perfect and I certainly lost my temper and yelled more than a couple times, but once I let the the ideas of “parents must be respected” and “children must obey” go, it’s been a pleasant life.
46
This is silly because its solution to kids’ misbehavior is wrong and ineffective. You can put them them in time out, or take something away from them that they like, if they do something they shouldn’t do. It’s not hard.
Also, the term “parenting” is not good. It makes it seem like it’s the parents’ job to learn how to behave. It’s actually the other way around - children need to learn how behave. And teaching them how is not called parenting - it’s called child-rearing.
22
My yelling happens after my daughter didn’t listen to the calm, reasonable request the first 462 times.
303
The issue is that most people with children are not ready to parent. Just having a child is very different than parenting a child. Parenting takes well-planned actions. It takes a lot of learning. It's a very difficult thing to learn, on-the-fly. Thank you for this article. I'm learning as I go and wish I knew so much more when I started parenting, but thank God my eldest is only 7! :)
33
Always on stage. Always trying to be perfect. Of course as parents we want to be decent, kind, and effective disciplinarians, but often we are not only the product of our own backgrounds, but without external supports and with limited resources. When we lose it and yell, we know God will forgive occasional lapses. We hope our children will.
30
Wait, wait, wait !
Last week, an article on no spanking and another on giving up cough and cold medicines for kids, now NO yelling ? ?
How are parents or g-parents supposed to quietly intervene when the kids are having a screaming/jumping fiasco on the furniture ?
What about when, a kiddo has the cat in a death-grip headlock ? Been there, undone that. Yes, I hollered.
I will be the first to admit I spanked my 3yo son soundly when I caught him stepping into the clothes dryer wearing his fathers motorcycle helmet. Guilty as charged.
In my old age, I have mellowed a bit though. Now, I use what my daughter-in-law calls a faja (Spanish for belt), which consists of about 8 pages from a newsprint magazine, rolled into a tube and held on one end by a rubber band. The hollow sound it makes swatting my other hand seems to get their attention about 75% of the time. Of course, I have to threaten to tell their mother at the same time to make it 87% effective.
What next NYT ? An article that says potty training is optional ?
30
@MGU. So you are beating your grandchildren with a "faja"? I wish your daughter-in-law would keep them away from you.
34
Yelling is abuse and only creates more disconnection between parents and children. If you want cooperation, listen to your kids, acknowledge them, treat them with love, kindness and respect. Meet them at their level (i.e.: with younger children make it a game) and model the behavior you wish to see. Kids, like all humans, just want connection and we can build this through joy. If you want combative, aggressive kids who don’t listen, by all means, keep yelling.
68
Look, I get the point of the article and I very much respect the Kazdin method. I don’t like to yell, nor do I want to have to yell. But the reality is that children need to know boundaries and respect. They need to be disciplined and taught healthy boundaries- for the sake of their future.
Sociologists are now producing research which points to the detriment of entitlement in children these days. Parents have coddled children throughout their lives so much so that this generation is completely ill-equipped to handle everyday hurdles. No, this doesn’t mean we need to throw our kids into the fire or berate them, but it certainly means that children need some tough love and the ability to cope with adversity- starting at home.
We all go through life getting berated at some point- a boss, colleague, stranger, etc. We need to teach our children resilience not entitlement.
39
@AB, a disciplined parent with a plan and a goal in mind is not “coddling” a child just because there is no yelling and hitting. Go back and read the part about yelling (and hitting) being catharsis for the parent and not about training the child.
33
For the record, I actually use the ABC method at home and have for a while. I’m just stating what social research has revealed. And yes, I did read the article multiple times since it was published.
6
Thanks but I understand that article just fine.
3
I liked this article. Yelling makes people look crazy, which doesn't inspire confidence in children.
28
I have always used whispering to disapline my children. I bring them in close for a hug and whisper in their ear what they did wrong and how to fix it. You may need to calm down first,before you proceed, but it always works. The best part is you can do it every where even in public without embarrassing anyone.
Even better once a child knows what is expected of them even a raised eyebrow will work. The only caviete is that the house rules must be set up in advance.
It also worked with my niceses and nephew. They were always good with me. Much to the chrigrin of my sisters who are tellers.
18
I think embarrassment make a great punishment!
5
Thank you, Mr. Marche. You have stated one fairly simple way to make oneself authoritative, rather then to let the child be in charge of the parent's own frustration. As Magda Gerber taught, if a request is worth making and the first verbal request is not followed, "Put your body where your mouth is."
Often simply getting up makes clear that you mean what you said, that you're not blowing hot air. The next atep might be gentle touch. Younger children in particular may have their own self-regulation (impulse control) strenthened by the guidance of a loving parent (or caregiver/teacher) who is, as Dan Gartrell says, "Firm and friendly, nit firm and harsh."
10
@Barry Bussewitz Yes, and direct. Acting like you are going go blow a fuse inspires either fear or laughter. I've seen kids try to get a rise out of teachers because they don't want to do work. With those that are firm and kind those tricks don't work.
3
Our approach is simple - start with love and warmth and enjoy the children
16
We did ABC therapy for years. And i like that it’s becoming more common to hear about... But I still yell sometimes too! #balance
8
"You have to be effusive, so you actually have to put a big dumb smile on your face and even wave your hands in the air. Next thing is you have to say, in a very high, cheerful voice, exactly what you’re praising." Sorry - we don't do this nonsense with our kids. We are honest with each other, we act like ourselves, and we expect them to do the same. Does that involve yelling sometimes? Sure. Living with other people (spouse/kids/siblings) can drive you nuts. We're not roommates/teachers/students and home is not the office/classroom. We're a family. Isn't that what unconditional love is all about?
56
This article exemplifies how well-intended science journalism can undercut its own value via overstatement and bad inferences. The research discussed offers great information but does NOT support the author's blunt conclusion that "praise works [and] punishment doesn't." Key points: (a) negative emotional "strategies" like yelling are bad ways to mold kids' behavior, and (b) mainly release parental anger and frustration. (C) Positive emotional reinforcement can draw kids to desired behaviors, but (d) "negativity bias" means that such reinforcement must be intense and repeated to work. This all seems to support a mixed strategy - the old carrot and stick. Negativity bias = even mild punishments can be effective, and if clearly communicated in advance can offer a powerful incentive that kids will want to avoid AND a way for parents to know where & when to "draw the line." So: less parental uncertainty, helplessness and anger, thus less yelling & more emotional resources for providing the positive reinforcement that promotes good behavior. Mr. Marche gets partway there, then overreaches in the direction of his own bias. He wants parents to take the anger and judgment out of their parenting and dump it on themselves. But the research Mr. Marche presents suggests that, instead of emotionally punishing the imperfections of kids OR adults, we should treat those failings with patience when we can, impose clearly outlined consequences when warranted, and reward successes generously.
13
@Andy Yeah... I don’t think you quite grasped what the article wasn’t saying. None of that very well structured critique you just wrote proves that you understand and comprehend what he is saying. Try reading it again.
4
Lately, I have heard that many parents yelled at their children, sometimes parents do not yell for anything. Normally, parents want the best for their children and I think that many parents shout at their children because something they have not done well. However, another parents if they yell at their children for something that do not have importance. Sometime, many children do not respect their parents because many parents do not teach to the children how to be respectful. Therefore, I recommended that parents now should show children respect, discipline and the education.
1
There are many ways to discipline our kids correctly and of course, we should do it. One way could be do not let them go outside or do not let them use their phone and so on. The reason why parents have to discipline their kids is to raise them in the correct way. It is normal to think that our kids want to experiment with new things such as not going to school and staying out with their friends, which normally happens but the first thing that we have to do is talk with them and explain the consequences that will happen if they do not obey. If the kids do not understand after a conversation, we have to take another alternative, but without yelling at them.
2
One thing that the author could have elaborated more on is the practice of phrasing expectations as "do" statements instead of "don't" statements which is a more positive way to interact with kids and is way more specific. Example: "Don't run in the house" isn't very specific if you actually want your kid to walk. He still has options to skip, jump etc. "Please walk in the house" specifically tells them what you want them to do. Most kids want attention and will do the right thing if that's what gets them attention.
19
Clearly the author has very little mental health and developmental psychology background for both children and adults. There is no way I’d recommend this to any client, colleague or friend of mine. As a mother of a 1 year old, it’s my belief that yelling tells just one part of a much deeper and more complex story of human nature, precious parenting methods and parental nutrition/sleep and life stress factors. Using the word stupidity to describe your audience of parents? Really? I hope there is a follow up article. Especially as a School Psychologist who uses the ABC method daily in schools without ANY parent or teacher shaming.
18
This article and subsequent comments made we want to slit my wrists the right way. There are so many issues here. First, the self righteous tone. As if there is one way to parent, as if there is one child, as if there is this magical family of perfection. No one wants to yell at their children and very few people think it’s a good idea. Second problem - the terrible shaming from the author to these terrible parents who yell and from the comments with their perfect nuggets of parenting wisdom. What I can’t stand here is maybe the solutions you mentioned worked beautifully for your children and when you see children misbehaving you judge, judge, Mr. & Ms. Mc Judgy believe you would never have a child that acted like that. Heaven forbid we recognize children with exceptionalities, mental health issues, or parents who might could use some help, nurturing, and comfort. Come on, people. Let’s try to be a little kinder. Next time you see a kid misbehaving and a stressed out parent, how about you try to help out? You have no idea how challenging the circumstances may be.
44
My mother, who was born more than a century ago, never shouted at us. She dropped her voice - and the ominous inference was loud and clear. When she really wanted to stop us in our tracks she whispered: 'Do that again and I will splificate you.' We never were splificated, whatever that meant, but she achieved her goal. We toed the line.
12
Maybe you should send this to the government so they can relay the message to the military drill sergeants.
7
I would be curious to see a longitudinal study that shows the effect on parents of yelling and nagging directed at them from their children. My guess is anxiety and depression might also result!
12
I'm not going to advocate yelling at one's children, but I have to wonder about kids whose only experience is the outsize positivity the author is pushing. How will they react when they go to school, or later on, when they join the workforce? The world at large doesn't really care about your self esteem, and a kid needs to know how to deal with negative feedback.
31
It’s funny because my parents never yelled at me when I was a child but as grandparents they are pushed to their limit by my children when they don’t do what they say and often resort to yelling. My dad is 75, very successful in the business world and can handle any crisis extremely well, but if my son disobeys him, he goes nuts! They’re incredulous that my children don’t obey the first time they’re asked to do something and my kids are fairly well behaved. I think the difference is the spanking - we got them when we misbehaved and so would follow instructions out of fear. Maybe because we don’t spank our children, there is no scary consequence in the back of their mind so no need to listen carefully.
12
What’s unhelpful about these ideas is that they aren’t natural, so they need to come with instructions. It’s like you get a machine to assemble and the instructions “just say figure it out.”
4
So what do you do like this morning, when your 4 year old tries to stop the dog from running in the backdoor by closing it on the dog's head? (Dog is fine) But seriously I freaked out in fear. My kid is so impulsive, how do I plan to not yell when I'm not expecting her to do something and I yell out of panic?
10
Not yelling only applies to kids who live a predictable life. All other who exercise their creativity through exploration, sometimes find out their limits through an audible sign.
10
I was going to forward this on to a couple of my siblings that have children (I have none) whom I know yell at their children but the line "Yelling may be the most widespread parental stupidity around today." in the opening paragraph stopped me dead in my tracks. Stupidity? Really? That doesn't seem constructive to me and I didn't forward this on as I didn't want to be seen as calling my siblings stupid in any way, as I don't believe that to be the case.
We grew up with parents that yelled, a lot, and so we've all come by this behavior honestly even though we know it's unproductive, but using a word like stupidity, and particularly in the context it was used, is not helpful.
49
Excellent observation; the yelling/shaming impulse is so deep seated and unconscious that the author even uses it while making her case for abolishing it.
43
It is very hard for some people to plan ahead what they would like their children to do. On the subway or walking the streets I hear adults say “no” “stop” but not “go as far as the fence and wait there for me”. Tell them positively what you want of them. Not enough for two year olds but they will learn.
If you mean what you say, say it once. Do not repeat.
Say what you mean; mean what you say. The children learn to depend on you.
But you must be able to plan ahead. Not so easy.
10
What they mean is don’t react emotionally to poor behavior and broken rules...it won’t happen every time, but you ask your child to...stop grabbing candy in a store and whining for you to buy it. Natural consequence? You leave.
So, they pitch the candy fit, and omg, I still need to shop for groceries...too bad, so sad, you leave...that’s it...bring your cart to the manager and GO - no yelling or lecture - but go.
See what happens next time! You need to care but be detached even if you are seething inside - and, like it says, act like you care when it goes right - don’t make the “no news is good news” mistake - let them
Know when they do it RIGHT!
16
@Stacy K I don't agree that you're using a natural consequence if you need to shop for groceries but allow your child's action to "make" you leave the store.
Why give the power to a child, whose misbehavior will change YOUR plans?
You're the one in charge. Let the kids know your expectations for their behavior, and show them that nothing they do will change the consequence: you are still in charge of what happens, you will follow your own plans.
8
.
......not to mention yelling at your spouse......
Susan
Survivor of Domestic Violence
.
25
Kids don't understand the importance of what you ask of them unless you break through their all consuming id. I'm referring to all children, including (especially) the smartest ones. Yelling is how they understand that what you're saying is important -- otherwise it's all white noise to them in the face of their desire to do want they want.
The good parent establishes boundaries and metes out consequences for crossing those boundaries -- yelling is the way good and reasonable way to penalize transgressions. The lazy, bad parent lets children run amok and doesn't bother to yell -- or is afraid to do so (scared their kids will not be their friends or is excessively, irrationally worried about scarring them).
As for studies that find a positive relationship between household yelling and depression, etc., it is easy to imagine that the kids that get yelled at most are the ones that have the greatest difficulties following rules and respecting boundaries. I have no doubt that they suffer from depression and low-esteem.
5
My father yelled all the time. It was an awful household to grow up within. He has anger issues that he does not care to resolve. I assure you this yelling impacted me greatly. As a parent now, I try to find other ways to get my son’s attention. Sometimes I come over and whisper to him, sometimes I tell him 5 more minutes of playing and then x (we set an alarm together), and counting also seems to get his attention. I try to be creative. Yelling is lazy parenting.
37
@John this seems absurd. My boys listen FAR more when I whisper than when I yell. If a parent continues yelling at their children, the children will grow accustomed and start tuning it out. Yelling is simply and utterly unreliable as a means of getting attention. Your assertion that it's the only effective means of getting attention is absurd.
As a consequence or punishment, yelling may be initially effective but as with getting attention quickly lose its effectiveness. The constant negativity of it will change your child's overall psyche but never be enough to alter behavior. If you're getting results with yelling it's only as an indicator or precursor to violence or further consequence. If yelling often precedes grounding, timeouts, or a real consequence, the yelling is not the thing achieving the effect. It's what follows. The yelling just makes you look weak, unable to control yourself.
If you have children, John, I sincerely hope you reconsider your positions. Nothing supports it. Keep a closer watch on your children and you'll quickly see the void of value yelling has. It's utterly unreliable for behavior modification on a long term.
11
This article is very culturally biased. Extremely. There are other cultures where yelling is considered within the normal range is self expression. Someone can speak quietly and quite cruelly. A person can say nice soft things with a vicious passive aggression. I think that never yelling actually leads to passive aggression since frustration will always need to come out somehow. Children know the difference between frustration and anger. And there is a big difference. And strangely enough, I found the tone of this article to be shaming. Which is really the worst way to treat people, especially children.
63
@Cary MomAre
I get your point about passive aggression. That's exactly what I experienced with my mom growing up. My mom would be kinda quiet when she wasn't yelling. When she was quiet we knew that something was wrong. But you are wrong, sometimes children do NOT know the difference between frustration and anger. It's a very fine line that has ruined my family completely. I hope that you are taking steps to protect yourself from the hurricane that is about to hit you. Assuming that you're living in Raleigh, that is. Please take care!
5
@Cary Mom
Which culture is that exactly and what's the research say about how those children turn out?
Sounds like a justification to keep yelling because you simply don't want to be told your way doesn't actually work. Research can not be culturally biased. The numbers are what they are and yelling doesn't work. The end.
5
dB
“Research can not be culturally biased.” Seems an absolute statement, and I cannot agree.
Many current sociology research studies do try to factor in the gender, race, and ethnicity of subjects, but past studies have not given enough weight to such diversity.
7
I think yelling they are referring to is the out of control yelling. The type when you see it in public you stand back and wonder what's wrong with that person. A raised voice and yelling are two different things. I do however agree that children who grow up around yelling tend to be scared and a bit sheepish. As they grow up they are just as angry and out of control as the person/people who terrified them as children.
19
Who needs the time out here?
3
I din't know about this article. No parents, I hope, wake up thinking "how to shout at kids" in the morning. It is not the first thing that comes to mind, but in the midst of the hustle and bustle in the morning where we are all busy getting ready, and the kids are NOT getting ready after repeated reminders, well, the ABC technique kind of goes flying out the window. Yes, it makes me feel crummy and yes, I talk to them later about my outburst and we try to make things better. These parenting-skills-articles and books are helpful, it serves as a great reminder, and maybe for those who are super disciplined, they can turn them into life-long habits.However, I think in general, these authors often fail to recognize that the amount of juggling the parents need to do in this super busy world and the amount of pressure we are under.
53
@Bongo Discipline begins with oneself, including as a parent. If you know what needs to happen in the morning--every morning, right?--you can plan ahead: coats and shoes and backpacks at the door for the kids, coats and shoes and whatever you need for work for yourself, maybe some lunches packed the night before. Nobody will be running around like a maniac screaming, nobody will forget anything, nobody will be late.
3
I think it's an argument for spanking.
4
Visit Japan. Children are respectful and well behaved, and parents *rarely* yell.
The entire Japanese society sets expectations for how people are to behave, and from my experience, roughly 99.8% of people follow it with an almost religious fervor.
Kids take the Tokyo subway to and from school, alone and in groups, without being disruptive to others. People leave bikes and flats unlocked as a rule, yet no one steals them.
Americans could learn a great deal about the benefits of a more civil society simply by spending a few days in any major Japanese city.
23
@KT, You wouldn't want us Americans there. Between initially polite groups and rude groups, the average tends to settle in favor of rude. Keep Americans out, if you want to keep the place polite.
4
@KT Japan has also one of the highest suicide rates in the world, so while I see your point on them having a respectful society, they are also a society with huge problems, a lot of which, are bought on by their culture.
15
@KT I don't know whether you live in Japan, but I have lived there for 24 years now. I have had my bicycle stolen several times, and parts of it, so I always lock it up and use only cheap removable parts (like saddle, light).
Child abuse is a huge problem in this society and especially steeply on the rise in the past years (which is probably primarily due to increased reporting).
This is not to say that Japan might be better than the US in all these respects, statistically speaking. But I doubt very strongly that Japanese have discovered the secret to child education. People do behave more calmly in public in general, as a result of education, but this is also linked with a suppression of individuality in public that many people in the West would not find desirable.
19
I am really getting sick of these parenting articles that start with an example like, "Don’t ride the dog. Stop hitting your brother." Then espouse their solution, and use an example like getting your kid to put the shoes away. How is the ABC method supposed to work in the former case? In the morning, "Remember Billy, today I don't want you to hit your brother, ride the dog, draw on the walls, climb on the counter, or leave your shoes in the hallway. I'll model this behavior for you." and then in the evening, I don't ride the dog, I don't hit the other kid, nor draw on the walls or climb on the counter, and i put my shoes away. My kid misses 4 of the 5. What am I supposed to do when, marker in hand, he starts drawing on the walls? How to get him to stop that? "I will not praise you effusively for your actions Billy." (spoken in a calm voice).
59
@GregoryH, Read my comment...nuff said.
3
@GregoryH
Don't you think the lesson here shouldn't be just to stop a particular behavior just because someone says so but rather the lesson should be to cause one to THINK about action and consequences? Teach them to make autonomous decisions?
My 2 year old and her cousin of the same age drew all over the walls with pen. The solution? Make them clean it up. Because if you get tired of cleaning up the mess you made then you just don't make messes anymore. You know the consequence. The delightful thing was both girls made a game out of cleaning up the pen marks. One would spray the Windex and the other would wipe.
If choose to write all over the walls again, well, they know they'll be cleaning it up again. The end result to me is the same: clean walls. I don't particularly care if they chose to do it because that's a natural part of child development: learning. I do care that they also learn every action has a consequence.
19
@GregoryH My mom just let me draw on the walls. At 41, I am successful and happy school counselor. And I don't yell at people.
3
As long as there are two-year-olds, there will be yelling.
34
no one, and I mean NO ONE has any idea how to raise kids... for all the "advice" - if you're lucky maybe, maybe, you get a good kid.... then again, just because it takes a whole lot of luck, doesn't mean you shouldn't try
24
These kinds of articles bother me. There is no one right way to raise a child. Partially because children have different needs. So how about you quit trying to tell others how to live their lives? Unless they are outright abusive, it isn't any of your business.
23
That's why we have so many kids that grow up and shoot people. It is our business. It is all of our business.
Screaming at children is just as abusive as hitting them. Child services will remove children from your home if you are browbeating them like that. They should obviously do it more often.
15
@jim While there may not be "one right way" to raise a child, there are MANY wrong ways to do so - to yes indeed, mess a person up, through poor parenting, including yelling and screaming, day in and day out.
As someone who experienced such "parenting" I can (anecdotally) confirm my own experience and outcome from such - a life of unexplained fight or flight moments of fear, acute anxiety, ongoing boughts of depression, self-esteem and value questions - the usual trauma imprinted on those chronically abused as children, whether verbally or physically (or often, both).
The real problem with your comment, "unless they're outright abuse" it's no one's business, seems to insinuate that only abuse one can see physical marks from, is valid. Really? I suppose those whispering uncles asking nieces to come sit on their laps are fine too then... Cause it's not visible, thus "out right" afterall.
(Seems many if the comments here, not just Jim's are defending the parents - no rest for those wicked kids - suck it up, brats!? Ugh.)
11
@margaux The reason we have children who grow up and shoot everyone is because we have more guns in this country than people and anyone can get their hands on a gun. It’s not because they have parents who yelled at them.
10
It’s an aside, but I bet if we didn’t live in a society in which it was necessary for both parents to work like dogs just to eke out a living we’d have a lot more patience to go around in general.
98
Like the old adage: Europeans work to live and Americans live to work.
11
My mother was big on yelling. Eventually one learned to simply tune it out. It was just background noise. To this day if someone starts yelling at me I immediately go to my happy place. My father rarely raised his voice. When he did one took it very seriously. Parents have many tools at their disposal. What I’ve noticed is that certain ones like yelling quickly lose their effectiveness when overused.
45
I get very frustrated with parenting advice for dealing with misbehaving kids that doesn’t actually apply to situations in which the kids are misbehaving. Sure, I’ll use the ABC method all day long if my kids will listen to my directions. But shockingly that doesn’t always happen.
27
Geez parents seem to always win without criticism.
I raised three kids. They ate what they are offered where there was no choice. They knew how to behave in public. They were invited back.
But sometimes I yelled. Get over it.
One thing I never ever did was allow my kids to stay in a situation where they were impacting the people around them. Prompt removal was standard when needed.
Recently I walked into a restaurant in California. The kind of place that thinks 25 bucks for a cocktail is normal. And, there was a toddler on the floor screaming.
I asked the manager, "whats the plan" to which he shrugged. I left. Other patrons left. Because no one was willing to address the parent. Ug.
54
@David
Why didn't you "address the parent," if you thought that's what needed to be done?
9
@Brad Blumenstock In someones business? When I'm out for dinner with my wife? uh uh. Let the business owner handle it. I'm there for some Tapas and a Manhattan. The guy down the street was perfectly accommodating.
15
@David, @Brad, and others here-
I find this article very interesting as a parent that is a famous artist and astronomer [and internationally famous Astronomy Artist in NASA websites, spoken on NPR many times, and taught this in the University,] with tremendous patience that taught this to our daughter, who then taught great art to her young Elementary School classmates as an example, and later as a young violinist at age 13, she was asked to teach violin to younger students in our neighborhood. Yet I find the comments even more so interesting, because it seems that everyone here is now dumping their personal stories of lifes many experiences; this is something to learn from, for all of us.
However I've seen the same situation you describe, about restaurants, as this appears to another discussion for another time about parents, rich people in high class restaurants, and restaurant management failure, not necessarily about the children or babies that probably shouldn't be in that environment in the first place. It's obvious that the management didn't know what to do. But then maybe that kind of situation is allowed in some restaurants without any restrictions, and everybody is now experiencing a lesson as witnessing this- how to be a fashionable parent, while consuming you're Manhattan and Tapas, and while also managing you're crying baby on the restaurant floor... what a great life experience of how to be enjoying haute coteur while balancing your child management skills.
1
When my children arrived, I didn't know what to do. I read Spock, Brazelton and Rosemond. I needed classes and checked out a few. I decided that what a child needs to grow into a fine adult are two things: expectations and consistency. Using that as a basis with recommendations from Brazelton and Rosemond and their help understanding child behavior, we somehow raised 2 superb adults. My son got his BS degree, is a pilot working on his commercial pilot certifications. My daughter is working on her Seamanship certification. She was not keen on college or University even as we encouraged her (My wife and I are college graduates, she has a Masters, I have a BA with certificates). As they grew up Brazelton's methods worked well with my son. My daughter was more oppositional with some passive/aggressive behaviors. Rosemond worked better with her. We provided the expectation that they do their best in whatever endeavor they they chose and consistently praised their success and their attempts to succeed. My wife was a sterner disciplinarian. But, this system seems to have worked out well. We rarely raised our voices to change their behavior. Rewards are better than punishment. The reward for children is focused attention from mom and dad. This was different than how we were raised and we had to consciously check ourselves on what we said and did with our kids. Sometimes, we hear our parents words coming out of our mouths. Consistency and expectations for children works. Rewards work.
26
The alternative to the ABC method described by the author is not yelling, but nagging. Nagging is a form of impatience born out of repetition. There are different forms of nagging. Yelling out of impatience is one kind of nagging. So yelling is not the core issue. Nagging is the problem.
16
I don't ever yell or spank. My kids are very well behaved. I've found that bribes work, much, much better, and at the end of the day, we're still friends. Although: be prepared. Each bribe will only work once, and then follow-up bribes will need to be bigger and better, by about 70 percent, for each follow-up time. Like if the first time the bribe is a cookie, that is good about 3 times and then it will need to be ice cream cone, and then eventually money and toys, etc.
2
@Guest45 A bribe is not discipline. I understand why you'd need to use a bribe maybe once every couple of years in an extraordinary situation. But constantly?
I think you can make your expectations clear to your children without yelling, or spanking, or bribery.
12
@Guest45 bribery gets dangerous. The world doesn't have allotments of ice cream and cookies waiting for children willing to earn them. How are kids supposed to learn that sometimes they have to do stuff "just because"?
8
Part of the increased challenge could be the transformation from a greater society aimed toward providing a childhood atmosphere as somewhat of a group effort aimed toward open opportunities for children's futures with adults assisting each other instead of competing over the most minuscule, meaningless issues, schooling for all instead of the bulk of resources being funneled to an elite few who are already blessed by the best of starts, and wholesome, family-oriented entertainment with life lessons at the core instead of programs where the anti-hero prospers and the "good" get eaten.
The saddest lesson children today will inherit is the realization so many people, perhaps their own parents and relatives, feel fine leaving the country - and the planet - a much bigger mess than they found it when they got here - (all in the pursuit of greater personal profit: a pursuit that rarely results in much long-term happiness.)
But then, what is to be expected when the great majority of the population is left to fight over the microscopic scraps that fall from the capitalist table of the elites?
13
My parents were both screamers and I considered their yelling to be verbal abuse. My father was also physically abusive, he would "start swinging," his words, when his kids disobeyed his orders. As a result, I hate screaming and yelling. I never yell at my son. I have avoided hitting him, I have spanked him approximately 3 times, once was when he ran into a busy street as a 4 year old, it was a reaction of fear after he was almost struck by a car. I have discussions with him. Yelling doesn't work, it only makes your kids rebel against you. Try having a conversation with your kids. Having a family meeting in order to work out problems is a much better solution than yelling threats at your kids or hitting them with your hands, belts, yardsticks, etc. Taking away privileges works much better.
33
I am in my fifties; my Mother is 80. She still yells at me. There is yelling, and then there is emotional abuse. It would be too lengthy to go into detail. Nothing will stop her, and she doesn’t know what boundaries are. We may be hard wired to yell, but constant criticism (for everything you do) in a scream is child abuse. You can be emotionally battered. Future parents, make sure you really want children.
68
What if the kid doesn't put his/her shoes away even with consequences?
12
@Meesh
Yes welcome to my world. With my first child I was what would appear to be an evolved mom. Always in control, never yelled, well behaved child. Then came number 2. None of the methods worked. Eventually the yelling started, then the cursing. Child and parent totally out of control. Read more books. Consulted child shrinks whose only solution was to medicate the child. No way!!! I continued to talk, to yell. Positive reinforcement, consequences, bribes, you name it I have done it. Today, it has gotten much better. My child and I both grew and we both figured things out. I no longer judge other parents’ behavior.
15
@Meesh I finally found something that works better than yelling (for my kids, at least). When the kids hear "Cleanup Mommy's way in 20 minutes!" they know that they need to get moving, or anything that doesn't belong on the floor goes into my closet. I usually help them clean, and sometimes they'll even do it without asking. But when a giant pile of small objects has been on the floor for several days, and they've ignored my nice requests to pick it up... I assume they either don't want this stuff, or they're willing to put it back in the box right now.
5
Choose your battles. Or hide the shoes & let them "buy" them back with an apology & a chore.
8
The one thing a parent will never cop to is being a bad parent. You accuse them of anything close to questionable parenting and you should batten down the hatches for a category 5 verbal cyclone.
It’s the same thing as racism in America. Over the past 10 years I’ve learned that, with the exception of self-avowed nazis and white nationalists (and not even all of those), there isn’t a single racist person in this country. Not one!
Judging by the responses here, among non-absentee parents, America has a 100% parenting success rate. Yelling works! Just ask them! They’ll tell you!
47
Over the past 8 years I've driven charter buses for a wide range of age groups.
School age groups respond best when the adults speak at conversational volumes. Competent chaparons often have a verbal queue that important information is ready for delivery and all ears become engaged.
Conversely, most school personnel yell at their highest volume while students put them on ignore.
The difference seems to be "important information" vs "because I'm the adult, that's why".
31
You may try to establish an ABC home but we don't live in an ABC world. Parents today offer no sense of authority for their kids. I have been working with school aged kids in my community for the past 25 years and I often feel that I am the first adult that has said no to their children. Try doing yard duty at a Middle School and using the ABC approach. You can't negotiate every ineraction with kids. Sometimes you just have to be the adult.
21
@Javier Alarcon
How does yelling make you the "adult?"
6
Well if there are consequences and clear expectations you shouldn't need to yell.
7
Oh my gosh . . . I just can't with these parenting articles anymore. What is wrong with parents and the so called professionals offering them advice: "And the consequence involves an expression of approval when that behavior is performed, an over-the top Broadway-style belt-it-to-the-back-row expression of praise with an accompanying physical gesture of approval." To this advice I say, am I a parent or a children's entertainer? I've recently thought about it and discovered my husband and I are authoritative parents. Our children are 1.5, 4 and 6 so we're in the thick of it at the moment. We ask / demand certain behavior from our children and when they choose not to comply we have clear consequences. My children are not my best friends, they are my loves, but I am raising children to become adults and I expect / demand certain behaviors. Raising children is not a collaboration between parent and child, it's the work of the parents. That's right - WORK. Children are work and we're putting in the time and effort to raise our children to behave appropriately and be good citizens, family members and friends. I'm genuinely confused, have parents forgotten, they're the boss.
94
Have you forgotten how to have fun?
2
It sounds like she can have fun spending time with well behaved children!
6
Mr Big, my children and I are just wrapping up a very happy and fun summer. We've made a lot of happy memories and had some very fun times. I think my three children are the most hilariously, wonderful people I've ever met. I couldn't be more pleased and proud to be called their mother! My hard work is paying me every day.
6
I'm so glad the author told me to positively reinforce positive behaviors. If only there was any useful suggestion whatsoever for negative behaviors, or absent positive behaviors.
I didn't see an ABC for when you come home and the shoes haven't moved. How very helpful to parents who already have nothing to yell about.
23
I’m going to look into Dr. Kazdin’s publication. I imagine it’s more thorough than a newspaper article can be expected to be.
2
I never had kids, but I learned this lesson from, of all things, a cat.
I adopted (unintentionally, actually) a hyperactive kitten about 9 years ago. He was the BUSIEST cat I had ever had, and one of the things he would do was to get up on counters and throw anything on them off. He especially did that when he was hungry (and he also was the only cat I have ever had who would only eat wet food and would not touch dry, so leaving dry out all the time could not solve the problem, obviously). So, for about the first 6 or 7 months of his life, I was always yelling at him.
One day, I had an epiphany. My yelling wasn't a punishment, it was a reward...because his bad behavior GOT MY ATTENTION, as shown by my loud response to it.
So, I changed my tactics after that. The minute he started hurling things off off surfaces, I would, totally silently, swoop in, and put him out on the (fully enclosed and normal temperature) porch. He essentially was in time-out, with no longer the reward of my attention for his bad behavior...instead, his bad behavior got him the exact opposite of what he wanted.
I'd leave him out there for about 20 minutes, then let him in, whereupon he'd come up and quietly sit in my lap, and get pats, and then, after that (which was the behavior I really wanted from him) get fed.
Within a couple of weeks of this, I noticed a RADICAL change in his behavior, which has lasted for the ensuing 8 years I've had him. Much easier on both of us this way.
49
@jlw518 Wow! Hear hear for the TO!
4
@Charlotte
Obviously not a feral cat. My feral cat is Rumi and I'm afraid he's going to bite me one day because he's never been vaccinated. I spoil him though, with wet food and dry....I'm a dog lover who lost her dogs from adopting them from dog shelters....and not knowing they were sick, they all died on me (2 border collies, 1 German Shepherd) so this cat is the nearest thing I have to sanity right now.., but I can't stand the cat. He is always swiping his paws at me even though I spoil him.
Would that kids were that simple.
2
Very enlightening and sounds like common sense to me. Who likes to be intimated by someone yelling at them. Hey does this work in adult relationships, as well.
17
My mom yelled at me and i paid attention because what came next was not fun. She did not look out of control and she had my love and respect. So to me this article has little validity. Every situation is different.
21
I have to comment once again...I have yelled, not at my students but at my own two daughters, occasionally. I have always regretted it. As Einstein said, " Modeling what we want our children to act like isn't the most important thing--it is the ONLY thing." He was correct. Our authority lies within us and is developed through respect. Respect is not born of fear.
35
Yelling gets you fired at work, in modern day US economy. Must not do it at home, either.
10
Honest question: for those who look back on their childhood and say that being yelled at and/or spanked was good for them, what else would you say about how you were raised?
Yelling and spanking were my parents' primary behavior modification strategies. Their parenting style was also very authoritarian - I usually did not know why I was getting yelled at/spanked (other than I made my parents angry for something I did). The main things I think I learned from this type of discipline was how to lie, have a deep fear of my parents and others in authority positions, and have reflexive startle responses to certain gestures/tones of voice.
Now that I'm a parent, I try to do the opposite of how I was raised. I am soft-spoken and don't yell. I've never spanked. I'm pretty conscious of trying to think ahead of what my goal is - is this a learning moment? Is this a moment I can show my child empathy and understanding?
I have a pretty good kid - I don't know if that is because of the above or I just got lucky.
Back to my question - how was your childhood different from mine so that you've come to a different conclusion about yelling (and spanking)? Did your parents take time to talk to you before or after they yelled at you about why you were being disciplined? Did maybe your parents say they were sorry after if they felt they were too harsh? In all honesty, I've always wondered what the difference was.
46
I feel the exact same way. My dad would yell at me and spank me. I never understood why it was happening. Maybe other parents were more judicious with their yelling or spanking? My dad would just lose his temper all the time. It was awful. I would never spank my son and try to avoid yelling as much as I can. He’s a very sweet and well behaved kid. He is much less anxious than I was as a kid and much more emotionally mature.
10
Very thoughtful response.
3
I'm really disturbed by the robotic lack of genuine emotion that Marche seems to want us to inject into our parenting. Sure kids need praise, but they also need and want consequences when they misbehave. Have a genuine relationship with your child. Let them know how you feel. Parenting is not just programming.
39
I was constantly critized for being tough with my kids. I don't remember yelling all the time, but I have a very harsh face and tone of voice and yes, I definitely yelled at them when they didn't follow orders. I also made sure that I teached them how to do things and supervised that they didn't do a sloppy job. I refused to praise them for doing what they were supposed to do. I,on the other hand showered them with kisses and hugs when they did their chores and more before being told. They are teenagers now and there is no need for yelling anymore. They are good kids. And now people praise me because my kids are so wonderfully well-behaved and kind. I wonder how that happened? It was hard work and there was some yelling.
25
@siyque I wondered above in my comment why there is so much disparity in people's views on the benefits vs. harms of yelling. On the pro side, I think you point out a key piece: your kids know they are loved, which includes the hugs and kisses, setting clear expectations and being consistent. It is authoritative parenting, the style that tends to be the most successful in terms of a child's well-being. I'd be willing to bet that people on the pro side came from this type of childhood as well.
On the con side is a childhood where yelling is used but love is not outwardly shown (for example emotionally distant parents and/or parents who are authoritarian to a fault) and the child instead feels fear/shame/etc. This was my childhood. I don't yell, because it was so painful for me to be on the receiving end when I was a child. Even in adulthood, my instinct is to run away if I perceive that someone is yelling at me - it is a protective but maladaptive coping response from childhood that has taken a lot of effort on my part to try to change. I think my teen has turned out well, too, without using yelling as a discipline method. I also pile on the hugs/kisses, set clear expectations and try to be consistent.
I think that our experiences and stories give some voice to the idea that perhaps the debate shouldn't be about whether yelling is good or bad, but to consider how it fits within parenting styles (where it can be positive or negative, depending on the style).
16
Nice essay and a good reminder of how to strive to be better.
Has the author ever had a son play Fortnite?
20
I would much rather have had my parents yell at us than to suffer the soul-crushing sarcasm and devastating insults they hurled at us oh so quietly.
47
@Brigid McAvey More likely, they would have continued hurling insults and sarcasm while terrifying you with their screaming. Add in a beating or whipping once a week or so, and you've got what used to be average parenting.
4
It's true. As a teacher in an urban public high school I can tell you that you can't control a class by yelling. Respect occurs with a calm voice and manner, with genuine connection to a kid or kids, and builds over time. An authoritative presence requires an adult to behave, well, like an adult. Imagine.
51
Spanking is probably a better action than yelling but neither work if the intentions are bad. Love works best, but is easier said than done.
8
For the most part very pathetic parenting technique- much better to learn some new skills. And just as an aside- really awful for children. Dreadful
6
So treat them like a new puppy you are trying to train.
6
Exactly!! That may be where they are developmentally!
1
I'd suggest we use some form of the ABC method, but if you catch yourself yelling, don't yell at yourself. Just take a half an hour and think about what you could do modify the child's behavior without getting so angry. Getting angry at someone can also be a way of venting your own frustrations. It is hard to catch one's self doing this since it feels so good, and is so easy to justify. It's really bad though, and it's probably an even more terrible example of naughty yelling. One other problem with yelling is that it seems to give us license to say really stupid things and really cruel things. Can't do that. But if you catch your kid bullying, or repeatedly playing in traffic, go for it.
6
“And if your child puts his shoes away, or even puts them closer to where they’re supposed to be, tell him that he did a great job and then hug him.” Are you serious? This is what’s wrong with American parenting. We can no longer yell at our kids, and have to praise them for doing the simplest things. That’s why young kids feel so entitled and are virtually the masters of their parents. Let’s get a grip.
48
@Calimom
That's why we have 18 year olds with 15 college credits and don't know how to cross the street. Truth.
5
I knew quite a few yellers and they all had (different) mental illnesses. I wonder if there is a proven relationship.
9
I agree that yelling and hitting your kids are not helping. Talking in calm manners and listening to your kids are better approaches. However, giving praise and hug them every they have done things that they are supposed to do them in the first place is too much. But that’s my style of parenting.
Parents out there are doing their best. Give them a break. Raising kids is not easy. Sometimes yelling works, as long as it is not abusive, so be it.
13
ABC is great, parents need to do more of that. Can yelling descend into abusiveness? Sure. But not yelling at all? That's probably wrong. After you've been positive and used ABC 10 or 20 or 30 times and the child keeps doing the behavior, well that's basically parent abuse. We all know about parents being abusive of children, but seem to assume that the reverse is not possible. It is. And it's a fully reasonable cause for anger - a lack of anger would be inhuman an unnatural. If children believe that they can abuse the good will of other people like they abuse the good will of their caregivers - if they come to expect from the wider world nothing but infinite patience and saintly forgiveness and understanding, well that is a lousy lesson to be teaching them. Yelling is the most natural and direct expression of anger. We keep hearing that people should express their feelings - except for anger - keep that bottled up! Well you can't have it both ways. Yelling can be a sharp reminder that when you stick someone with a pin, they bleed. But like many good sharp lessons, it's effectiveness wears out when over used.
My dad almost never yelled at us. But when he did, everything stopped. You knew you were out of line. Superbly effective, and a lesson for both his little kids then, and those kids now parents.
60
You can (and should) express anger without yelling.
5
This is a great comment. And there is a difference between anger and frustration. People are not superhuman. They get tired and frustrated. Yelling isn’t great but as long as it is not vicious it’s not the end is the world. And kids should learn that people have limits.
4
As a retired fifth grade teacher, I know that if you are yelling, you have lost.
I taught in England for a year, and while somethings were better there, yelling at kids, especially on the playground was a normal daily event. It shocked me a bit, until I realized that the kids were so use to it, it had little effect.
19
I had an algebra teacher who stood in the front of the room and whispered. That might be a slight exaggeration, but only slight.
7
I am still recovering from all the screaming and belittling things my parents said to me. And I am 63.
71
I'd like to send this article to every horrible boss (or co-worker) who thought it was appropriate to yell (and sometimes throw things) at others in the workplace...
24
Yes I've been guilty of just this "weakness". But I wonder, has the opposite truly been effective? Where did our millennials come from? Do they really have more self-esteem despite being so needy for direction and praise and the sense of importance? Not sure this is real world, important yes but not the complete truth.
10
@Sal Out of curiousity, what points to millennials being more needy and self-important? What specifically do they do that no other generation did in terms of behavior? Redirecting and accusing entire generations of being the problem is inaccurate and lazy. Every older generation resents the younger. Natural, but unfair and silly.
22
@Sal I personally have had it with millenials being disparaged. All millennials I know are fine and hard working young people. They had to cope with a terrible economy when they graduated from college and a prolonged lackluster job market. Many have loads of student loan debt. But like all generations of American kids they get with the program and become hardworking and solid citizens.
26
On the other hand, we need to think about how our kids yelling at each other drives us crazy.
Think if we were kids and that yelling was coming from the adults in the house, aimed at us. What could hurt more besides physical abuse?
9
It is important to note that when you yell you look out of control and weak to your children and that households with regular shouting incidents have higher rates of depression. I know I have too often yelled at my children and I am trying to stop almost all yelling. Where I fall down is when I have been reasonable in my tone of voice and it becomes obvious that I am not being heard or listened too. Then, too often, I do succumb and resort to raising my voice, especially when I'm getting inane arguments against reasonable things I am stating. Oh well, I'll work on it....
25
I will add some slight insight here, as a child, and a parent. Shame is powerful, but in limits.
5
Praise doesn't need to be effusive, ultra dramatic, OTT. A "thank you" with a smile often serves the purpose better. If you make a huge dramatic deal of praising good behavior, it implies that you had expected the opposite. A simple "That looks tidy," or "That was a big help -- thanks," conveys more respect and more faith in the child. It's collaborative instead of patronizing.
After all, which do you yourself prefer to receive, syrupy artificial praise, or plain honest appreciation?
76
@MC Agree with this comment. OTT praise is awkward for both the parent and the child.
3
@MC Very true. All anyone wants, kids included, is to feel competent. Competence is an addictive feeling and parents should capitalize on that. Praise that focuses on the process, eg “that looks like it was difficult, but you stuck with it” is harldy over the top, but so much more effective (and it feels less awkward and patronizing too!).
9
But specific praise is important...”You did a great job putting away your shoes tonight.” Rather than just “thank you...”
This article is getting a major piece of this issue so wrong. Parents don't yell because they believe its a form of discipline
- they yell because they have issues controlling their anger. Yelling is 100% about anger issues. I know, I came from a home with an abusive yeller and now struggle to control not yelling at my own kids. I don't yell because I think it will get me the behavior I want, I am not thinking at all. Its a loss of control, and my anger as taken over. Its shameful, and I work everyday to control my anger issues and find new ways to express and communicate. I wasn't taught that from my own parents. But this article is so frustrating! When can we find an open and helpful way to talk about anger and how to change our habits around it? This article dances around the real issue of out of control anger.
95
Thank you for your honesty Lucy. I too grew up in a household where my dad yelled a LOT. He loved us deeply but he also struggled with controlling his temper, which I’m sure was a result of his own inadequate upbringing and lifelong depression. Now I’m in his shoes—a parent with depression and anger issues as a result—and it is hard. I am learning a lot from my millennial parent friends. They have taught this old GenX-er mom some good tricks. I try to be honest with my kids and tell them (in language they can understand) when my feelings of anxiety are overwhelming my logic. I want them to understand that I am HUMAN and yes, weak. And that is my strength. It’s how I get a little bit better at this parenting thing, and hopefully, they’ll be even better than me. Little by little, each generation, we can get better and better. Sending you a big high-five, sister.
18
@Lucy
Your work and willingness to change this pattern, your awareness, and knowledge of what abuse anger is - I acknowledge you.
3
When my son was, I dunno, 6 or 7, I got upset about something and yelled at him. He responded, "Well, that was an over reaction." I shut up, thought for a minute and said, "Wanna switch jobs?"
60
The use of spanking to discipline children has been in decline for 50 years.
You know else has been in decline for 50 years? Civility, respect for life, respect for authority, and integrity.
8
@tfam1104
If civility, respect for life, respect for authority, and integrity can only be inculcated by beating one's children, that says far more about parental and societal definitions of said virtues, than any objective definition of what a good citizen should actually be.
45
There is some evidence that Adolf Hitler was beaten everyday in his childhood on a precise schedule. Not necessarily because he did anything wrong but because it was believed that is was good for children to be beaten.
It’s also true that the Germans people tend to be very civil to one another.
Hmm.... what went wrong?
3
@tfam1104 You southerners are all about "respect for authority." What exactly is so wonderful about following orders without question? Do you think that police officers, Catholic priests who abused children and other adults that harm children, i.e. abusive coaches are always correct? Despite being beaten as a child I was determined to think for myself and I certainly did "question authority" when I knew the so called authority were abusing their power.
I also have high morals and integrity.
10
Those rotten kids! They make up their own minds, weirdly independent, it's as if they could be some new better version of ourselves...
13
Spanking works great. I have a a 4 and a 7 year old and they have booth been spanked exactly once, the threat of spanking is an absolute guarantee that they will stop the offending behavior.
Similarly I yell very rarely but when I do it is very effective. I'm not sure what planet this author lives on but its not mine. Spanking and yelling work very well.
12
@ John Wilson
Spanking and yelling perhaps work very well for some. But victims of generational abuse, like myself, would argue otherwise. There’s a huge difference between “normal” yelling and emotional/physical abuse that’s completely ignored in this article.
16
@John Wilson
It looks like you didn't read about future consequences.
12
@Bill
you mean more studies about the correlation of punishment and acting out...
Why should we be giving our kids the false impression that we are not weak? I know when I’ve lost my temper what I’m showing them. It’s the ugly truth.
11
when I was growing up if the shoes were not put away when asked, they disappeared for a week or so. No yelling, no scolding, lesson learned
22
My observation is that American kids can't take being yelled at, they totally melt down when someone raises a voice, they're so fragile and the parents seem so consciously trying to handle them like they are some wild species. I raised my kids in Italy, where most parents aren't afraid to raise a voice. When there's a good reason it's very effective -- in small doses. Plus, yelling in Italian is very cathartic. Never laid a hand on them of course.
24
@Celeste My father was raised by Italian parents, his father was a real piece of work, he beat his wife. My father's solution to every problem was to belt me.
6
I wonder which kids you have interacted with - some of my Title I students knew nothing but yelling at home and were inured to it - and they were often sad and broken.
1
My mother preferred to yell because it got everything out of her system. Never mind what it did to me. That wasn't important. My father and my mother loved to slap, pull hair, and use beatings. According to them I behaved better after that.
What did I really learn: that no one was trustworthy, that I was no good, and that I never ever wanted to be loved like that by anyone. I have never married. I had one intimate relationship and that was it. I do not trust people not to talk about me behind my back, not to hit me, not plot to hurt me, or to care.
When you beat your child, verbally abuse him/her, constantly criticize you create a child who is desperate for someone to like him/her. You make it much easier for a child molester to become friends with your child. I know because it happened to me. Why? I couldn't trust my parents and, because of how they treated me I had no idea I was allowed to say no.
129
This is absolutely heartbreaking! I hope you have found some peace in your life. I can, and I am sure many others, relate some to your pain. Kids are so much smarter than parents can often see and abuse/belittle because of their own issues of self image and fear. I still have to remind myself of that even 25 years later; they have never changed.
9
I am so sorry this happened to you. You did not deserve this. Please know that. It hurts my heart to imagine what you had to endure.
21
@hen3ry You are not alone here. Very similar experiences and results. Instead I got caught up with a con man who was supposed to be my business partner instead of a child molester. Its difficult to watch others progress through life when you are at best running in place. One day at a time. Hang in there.
8
what if your child is 2 years old and doesn't understand regular instructions, at least not fully, as children who are older?
how do you teach a 2 year old not to climb on the chair and then on the table, when they do it over and over again, even after repeatedly showing them in the kindest way that they will get hurt when they fall?
the answer: spanking them once, twice, and boom, they learn no longer to climb the table.
1
@ed not true. You calmly remove them from the table until they are old enough to control their impulses. Spanking teaches them you are someone to be feared, not loved.
23
@DL totally not true. I got spanked, I love my parents to death. We understood that we got spanked for a reason. Stop treating kids like that are stupid. They understand much more than you obviously realize.
1
@Anon. I got spanked a few times. Never repeated the behavior. Not in the least damaged by it....
No different than causing dogs to adapt:
It's the three "R's"...
Redirect their attention
Request what you want
Reward when they do it
Repeat above often for effectiveness.
28
@Scott
My initial thought was how not yelling at your kids is the same as the training in how to be a good dog parent. Children & animals sense emotions & react to it. If you sound & act desperate & angry, you are unlikely to get the response you want in return. The problem for most people is it is really, really hard not to react negatively when you're tired & frustrated and that's usually when most of us start yelling. It takes a lot of practice and self-discipline for most people and too many have never had good role models for how it should be done.
Like so many things it's easier said than done.
3
@Scott
Hmm. When my dogs are misbehaving, they do respond better if they think I'm angry.
1
If I show anger to my dog, he either shows his teeth or runs the other way.
1
In teacher-training there is a simple axiom that fits the situation: "Catch them being good!"
Many times we humans (young and old) do not know what behavior would please some other human (and get them off our backs.) Just being made aware of success matters a lot in shaping behavior.
Another thought-- for older kids, the over-the-top positive reinforcement recommended in this article would seem pretty odd. In our teens, my mom treated us as contributing members of a household and thanked us with the quiet warmth one gives to a kindness. Good modeling of how adults should treat one's fellows.
26
The only person one really has control over is oneself.
Yelling adds a dimension of now we have a power struggle.
And yelling doesn't promote listening--or cooperation.
Nor does it teach the child self-control. Instead, it instructs when the child grows up, he or she can yell as well. Or worse, the lesson is becoming loud and angry is what to do when upset.
16
For those who ask for specific steps for what to do when asking a child nicely to get off screens does not work - on the now rare occasions this happens here, I give a second warning and then, if that doesn't work, I quietly put all electronics (TV and video game remotes and joystick things, and cellphone) in the car and go to Barnes & Noble for a venti half sugarfree iced tea lemonade, and maybe a biscotti too (not sugar free, and chocolate is best). By the time I come home, my young teen has usually cooked some creative recipe (e.g. pepperoni pizza bagels) or built a sofa cushion tent (for the endlessly patient dog) or last time, tucked into Vonnegut's Breakfast of Champions (and had lots of questions!); his nonscreen energy and manners fully restored. Is that specific enough?
Because I'm genuinely forgetful - one time I lost the electronics for a couple of weeks - so directions usually get followed now. I did make an important change to my own manners: I text the time to be off a screen as opposed to calling downstairs in a loud voice - that, way nobody starts the infectious chain of yelling - and voila poof!, like magic, up the stairs he comes.
You're the boss - pull the plugs - and be clear they won't be plugged back in until balance, and good humor, are restored.
Good luck - keep the faith!
31
As a supervisor at work I once told two individuals working under me what needed to be done and what the result would be if they didn't do it -- not to them, but to the organization as a whole. When they got in serious trouble for not having the supplies they needed, which I had told them repeatedly to order, they told me they hadn't ordered them because I did not yell at them or show any signs of urgency or distress. Did they not take my direction because I didn't communicate effectively, or because I'm a woman and they were men? I have no idea. The point is, in some situations, with some people, calm, reasonable communication is not enough.
Luckily for me, I had a child I never had to yell it, because he responded very well to calm, rational explanations. But I would not self-righteously condemn a parent who sometimes results to yelling. I know from experience one size does not fit all.
25
When I was an afterschool teacher, we used a system somewhat similar to what is described here. We rewarded positive behavior and ignored negative behavior (unless it was actually dangerous). It worked amazingly well, and made behavior management more about guidance and helping kids learn to behave appropriately than about dominance. It was in no way coddling — it was what was most effective and productive and pleasant for everyone, teachers included.
15
This is certainly the way to go. But as others have said, if you’re a stressed out parent waking up with whining toddlers this is just not realistic. If we had better supports for parents in our world, anger and yelling from stress would decrease and the kind of active modeling and patient reinforcement could become normal.
i must have come from a different era.
In my family, everyone had jobs. My parents worked, both teachers. My sister and I got home from school before them, and alternated making dinner mon thru fri, the other washed the dishes. Everyone contributed, thats why it was called a family. My job was to go to school and do well, take care of my possessions. Every Sat morning all of us cleaned the house, raked the leaves, mowed the lawn, cleaned and maintained the car, when it was finished, the whole family went to the library. Sundays we 'rested'. Yes, there was yelling, usually for the failure of not living up to one's family obligations. I grew up capable, and responsible, and there wasn't much i could not repair, nor navigate.Yet i do not see many comments of children's responsibilities and obligations to the family...instead ridiculous commentaries about 'shoes'.
14
@EGM this is not an either or. He author never claims that positive reinforcement man's kids shot be given significant rsponsibility. We load out kids up with chores but Ali do our best to minimize yelling (but admittedly fall short at times)
I want to share, for posterity, how kids were disciplined in the 50s and 60s. Physical punishment was meted out by parents, neighbors, teachers and coaches. According to my mother (teacher), my father (USAF veteran, teacher, principal and superintendent) spoiled me as he didn’t spank me until I was two. My mother attributed this to his flaw of being enamored of me as his first born (eldest of four boys born 1956 through 1963). He didn’t make that mistake with my younger brothers. My father liked the belt. He could expertly hit the well-innervated back side of the lower part of the thigh just above the knee joint. What an artist. My mother pointed out that my father only whipped us with a belt, whereas my grandfather had whipped his boys with his razor strap (visit a museum to see one).
After about 11, my father stopped using physical punishment—although I still physically feared him. He devised psychological punishments, like taking me to the barbershop to direct a horrible haircut—executed in front of all gathered.
My father never complimented me (or my brothers). Not for athletic achievements, good grades in high school, college or law school, making law journal and getting published twice, obtaining a coveted job as a personal clerk to a judge of the court of appeals, or making partner. My father believed one was to do one’s best. No cookie.
I adored my father, and even though he never said so to my face I know he loved me and was proud of me.
6
@Duane Coyle I grew up in the 50s and 60s, and was struck exactly once (by my father, and I'm sure he regretted it)...never experienced the other awful treatment you describe...my sisters and I turned out fine...please don't imply that all (or even most) kids were raised the way you were...
5
@Duane Coyle I grew up in the 1960's in NYC, corporal punishment was not allowed in the public schools. And my neighbors sure as heck were not allowed to smack me around. It wouldn't have happened in my neighborhood.
My father used to hit me and my younger siblings all of the time, he died young of a heart attack. I think that his violent personality contributed to his death. When he died my younger sister confided that she was glad he died. I had mixed feelings for many years when he passed away at a young age in his early 50s. Luckily I was old enough to get married a few years later. I think I got married young because my dad wasn't that good of a father imo. I was looking for a father figure, my husband. My husband was only a year older than me but we are still together after 40 years.
2
@Jim Duane Coyle's dad sounds awful, my own father rarely praised me. He actually blamed me for having to have surgery as a teenager. It was all my fault that I got sick and cost him money for medical bills. He made me repay him.
There is no one-size-fits all miracle parenting guide. One study in 2014 is not definitive proof of this author's point of view. Who were the study's subjects? Were there any allowances made for cultural differences, family size, children's widely varying temperaments? If you are screaming damaging things at your kids, the volume is not the problem. They can be just as damaged by whispers. Raising kids in an emotional hothouse and expecting the world to adjust to them when they leave it rather than vice versa is not enlightened, it is delusional.
11
What parent hasn't caught himself or herself screaming like a lunatic on occasion (my favorite is "STOP CRYING!") or wondering whether the balance between drill sergeant and warm affectionate parent could be healthier? I welcome tidbits of wisdom like this and genuinely try to incorporate them into my work style at home. But humans raising humans is a messy business and seeking the magic formula a fool's errand. My short list of absolute rules includes always trying, owning up to my bad moments ("sorry daddy raised his voice earlier") and always forgiving myself for falling short.
38
Read John Rosemond. He advocates parenting with love and leadership.
3
As student teachers we learned a myriad of behavior modification techniques to use in the classroom. This was one one of them. However it’s not an antidote for yelling. Every parent engages in that when tired and frustrated.
The techniques that do work without yelling were quite useful. I’ve used a variety of them over the past forty years on my students, my children, my husband, the family dog, and friends who are habitually late.
One must always remember, the behavior always gets worse before it gets better no matter which technique is being used. They all figure you’re going to give in eventually. But just when you think you might...don’t.
That’s the moment the behavior will change.
My daughter “ forgot” to keep throwing wet towels on her bed until they piled up for two weeks, mildewed, and she had no towels left. All the while sleeping in a damp bed.
Eventually she got the message.....
2
I am surprised at all of times I don't yell, which is most of the time, like 99.9%. But then there are those instances where I express emotion, call it weak.
7
The most amazing thing?
My father's words came out of my mouth with my children.
When I heard my own/his words, in some deeply important way, I understood that we are defined culturally every bit as much as by biology
11
@UTBG Spanking your child for correction is NOT the same as child abuse. It's not even close.
1
@Anon
actually, it is.
Further, it's teaching your child that big people hitting little people is ok.
It's called assault if one hits an adult, why is it different if the person you are hitting is a child.?
3
My comments (and replies to others' great comments) have all been rejected because apparently I have the audacity to point out that this article's tone is both insulting and condescending, not to mention my tendency to only seek advice from developmental pediatricians and child psychologists, aka, people with legitimate child-development related degrees. The ABC program is terrific. Children's Hospital teaches it to parents of special needs children. And FYI, special needs kids often don't remember direction 2 seconds after receiving it, let alone 7 hours. So that piece of advice is unrealistic. No parent wants to scream at her child, and parents certainly don’t feel better afterwards. They feel worse. But sometimes when you’re dealing with a child who literally can’t hear you because of the soundtrack going through his head (or the soundtrack he utters out loud which you have to figure out how to cut through), and you’ve tried literally everything else, it’s an unfortunate last resort. NY Times, why don’t you do me a favor and actually post this comment this time.
8
@Marie I have to disagree with you on this. I can outline what we're going to do when we get home to my 2yo in the car on the way home from picking her up from day care. We're working on counting and memory, so I tell her: step 1 we eat dinner, step 2 we take a shower, step 3 we eat dessert, step 4, we watch a movie, step 5 we go to bed. And then I get her to repeat them back to me so I know she knows the plan. While I'm making dinner, I'm telling her we're getting ready for step 1. She really just wants to get to steps 3 and 4, but all I need to do after that is remind her which steps we're on and she does things that will get her to the next step.
When I have told her beforehand that I am going to have to do things she doesn't particularly like, e.g. closing her bedroom door when I leave her room after putting her to bed, she is more okay with it than if I don't put that thought in her head beforehand. It makes sense to me that mentioning the desired outcome earlier in the day will prep your kid to mentally be prepared to do it later in the day.
Also, you did see that this Dr. Kazdin mentioned IS a professor of child psychiatry at Yale, right?
3
@Marie as an autistic adult of a screaming mother, I assure you that it does not work to get through the soundtrack in my head (my parents called it my inner TV). My mom screamed at me several times a week, for half and hour to an hour at a time, red faced with her veins bulging. It didn't teach me anything, it just made sure I did nothing and hid, and made me fear my parents. It actually pushed me deeper into my head, where I would try and hide and wait for her to tire out and feel better.
When I have challenged her on this, she replied in the same was as Marie, that she has to yell in order to get through to me. But, if that were true, then why did she have to yell at me over and over? If that theory is true, then you would never have to yell on the topic twice.
Special needs kids require even MORE time, attention, and planning than regular kids. I apologize to all parents of special needs kids out there, I understand the incredibly tough path you walk.
The author's statement about parental yelling being cathartic for the yeller stuck a cord. I know my mom was in a tough position when I was an infant, in a foreign country, away from family, and my dad travelling a lot. It makes a lot of sense (even if it isn't right) that she yelled at me so much, as that was probably the only outlet she had for her anxiety.
And, of course, at least one parent of autistic children tend to be on the spectrum. After all, where do you think we get it from?
17
@Marie, I'd like to point out the irony of someone who admits she yells at her kids leading with complaints about the tone (not the content) of a well-written article. Insulting and condescending? As if kids find adults yelling at them, what? Encouraging, complimentary, and uplifting?
4
"The ABC method of praise is a highly specific technique. You have to be effusive, so you actually have to put a big dumb smile on your face and even wave your hands in the air. Next thing is you have to say, in a very high, cheerful voice, exactly what you’re praising. And then the third part is you have to touch the child and give him some kind of nonverbal praise. The silliness is a feature, not a bug."
Speaking as an adult who once was a child and remembers the experience, I'm pretty sure the impression such a performance would give to most kids would be one of discomfort at observing Mom or Dad behaving like a rather grotesque phony. Do you remember pretending not to be aware of it when your parents were conspicuously faking it? I do.
19
@MisterE No on remembers things from when they were 2 years old. I think the silliness is geared towards the 4/5 and under crowd.
2
@MisterE No one remembers anything when they were 2 years old. I think that silliness is meant for the 4/5 and under crowd.
@John
When I was two I was earning nickels from neighbors for reciting the Pledge of Allegiance. My earliest memories are earlier than that. It makes no sense to me when people say "nobody" or "everybody" in declarative statements, as if they believe they could possibly know the mind and experience of everyone on earth and can speak for everyone.
yelling, more than spanking.......? really? The author would have us believe that hitting a child is a more thoughtful option? Physically abusing a child, which spanking is, should not even be discussed as an option.
4
@Ellen
The author did not state that spanking is an option.
The author did not state that spanking is better than yelling.
The author did not state that spanking is a more thoughtful option.
8
@C's Daughter & Ellen
The author wrote: "Yelling, even more than spanking, is the response of a person who doesn’t know what else to do."
Both actions can arguably be identified as conditioned stress responses, while structured corporal punishment, some pundits continue to believe, can be an intentional, thought out form of discipline. Unfortunately, while one doesn't generally plan to yell, most people don't 'plan' to spank, or do it dispassionately--it happens, often in a moment of crisis
, and is therefore inherently violent and unacceptable. Studies show violence breeds violence, so by extension, losing control, showing a child rage, and/or other forms of verbal abuse, can be fundamentally destructive. This author advocates praise rather than punishment, and yet this is just another problematic system, since children today expect praise for everyday functioning. I refuse to sing praises for daily, life-saving behaviors, such as brushing teeth, etc., and which seem to form the backbone of juvenile bad behavior.
1
@Ellen Spanking your child for correction is NOT the same as child abuse. It's not even close.
2
Many of the comments here were predictable.
Yelling is violence. We resort to violence when we perceive a threat (whether there is one or not) and are dumb, plumb out of more constructive options.
So parents who yell at their kids perceive them (or what they're doing) as threats and are dumb, plumb out of more constructive options.
Yelling at kids is to attack them. It's an assault on ears on heart.
I don't see that as a position to defend but a problem to rectify.
20
I grew up in a house with a yelling dad. He never got physically violent (I suppose occasional spanking if we did something really bad may count as violence now, but in the 1960's it did not). But we learned very young to be afraid of the angry shouting man.
As a result (I realized much later), I learned that the way to react to others' shortcomings (or my own) was with anger; I learned that anyone who needed help with anything was weak (including me), and anyone who had difficulty in school was stupid (including me).
I think this made me a more compassionate teacher as an adult, but it took me until approx. age 50 to treat myself with the same understanding.
I used to joke in high school that I would never want to have kids because I would probably abuse them. I never had (or wanted) any, and I'm glad. I suspect I was right.
36
@Bruce You are right. I know I would have beat my sons if they were like me as a kid. I was active and could get quite snotty. A handful for sure. God gave me daughters instead and I yelled at them too much. The oldest one shows signs of aggression and I blame myself for it. I relaxed on the second one and her self esteem is higher. I'll probably spoil the oldest one for the rest of my life to make up for it. They were so easy to raise in hindsight.
6
@Bruce You are wise. I was afraid of behaving in the violent, chaotic ways my parents did and didn't think much about having kids. I had one abortion, knowing the likelihood of reproducing harm was high. I kept going to therapy and working on stuff. I even eventually got a doctorate in developmental psychology as a way of not behaving that way. When my biological clock got turned on, I really, really wanted a child. We intentionally got pregnant. We've tried to be thoughtful and reflective as we guided our son into adulthood. He's never had a parent hit him or yell demeaning things, though I've raised my voice in exasperation. I tried always to apologize for losing control, and also emphasized the parts of a negative interaction that belonged to me. Sometimes I would joke, I've never done this before and neither have you. It helped the 3 of us feel like allies, sometimes exploring new terrain.
8
Yelling conveys authentic emotion. Telling people not to yell is unrealistic and naive.
21
Without being snarky I point out that these are the exact same techniques for properly training your dog. However, I do not recommend using treats when using it with your children.
17
Why does the person yelling look like a woman?
8
@V
She could possibly be a woman. I've been yelled at by a few.
5
Two thoughts:
1. Interesting ideas for parents with infinite time on their hands to gently coax the child into doing what needs to be done. But in the real world, there's always a point when time runs out, because it's 10pm or you're late for school. What then ? The author doesn't say.
2. Say I did beam a big, dumb, beatific smile to my kids and "wave my hands in the air" when they put their shoes away all by themselves --- then they'd probably give each other worried looks and ask if I was OK. And they'd be right : a ground rule of parenting is to respect your child by not treating him/her like an idiot, and I'm not sure the author of the article fully understands this.
43
I think the author's point that yelling all the time is ineffective is a fairly good one. Unfortunately, that gets lost in the overall implication of "and you don't really need to ever introduce negative consequences for misbehavior, either."
1
Agree that yelling should not be a parenting “choice”, but of course like the author says, it’s a loss of control. So why does he present this like we have a “choice” to not yell? “Just don’t lose control when you’re losing your mind”... great advice!
And yes, sounds great that after the kids do what you carefully tell them to do you can praise them and la, the behavior is reinforced. How about after the 5th time youve asked them so nicely and still no action?? That’s what I see. And then we have no time left and I’m beyond frustrated and mad and only yelling gets attention and action.
How about real advice for what to do when they don’t listen??
17
Think about natural consequences . Don’t get upset. Don’t yell . Figure out the natural consequence and let that be known . It’s very powerful and respectful and lets children be captains of their own ship.
2
It's hard to tell what this article is really about... Yelling up or down the stairs has some purpose, because of the distance involved, and is extremely common in families. To me that's laziness — I don't do it because I was taught by example, by my parents, not to. We were taught to take the trouble to go find each other if we needed to speak. We actually did that, and yes, we are a little uptight :o) Yelling angrily, right at a kid, is harmful. If it were appropriate and effective, teachers would be doing it in school.
3
Teachers are not parents the dynamic is much different. Teachers are not always the most effective at controlling behavior. Teachers in my area were having a conference about what to do with all the abusive students. They dont have enough space to evacuate the class rooms.
I totally concur with this article. I grew up with a lot of yelling in my family.
It caused me a lot of trauma when I was young. Even when it was one of my other siblings getting yelled at.
I found that guiding your children from a very young age is the way to go. This does not mean you will not get frustrated. But it does let your children know that you are in control as an adult.
Sticking to your guns, instead of making threats you do not keep is also a good idea.
As they say, "let the punishment fit the crime"
And remember how you felt being yelled at by an out of control parent.
10
Yelling that is vituperative, or constant yelling that demeans over time should not be practiced.
However, some kids need to be yelled at, particularly headstrong boys. Yelling can prevent or curb the intentional bad acts of a delinquent or the negligence of an inattentive goofball.
Girls in the main conform better, read better, and do not lash out. Yes, there are some mean girls. But in the main boys are more prone to throw a punch and break things.
Boys do this at a young age, but it gets exponentially worse when the sap rises. It has been shown with hard data that boys who grow up with a father or other responsible adult in the house are much less prone to grow into felons.
A head of the household who lays down the law is necessary. Can there be a matriarch who does the job? Indeed there can be.
But more times than not, the threat of muscle is more effective and efficient. Alas, that's just the way men and boys are. Yelling can prevent bad things. Yelling is certainly better than something corporal. Yelling is better than having a kid who is not socialized.
Judicious yelling is a good thing, particularly for boys.
3
Nope. I’m a strong mother who raised 2 respectful caring boys into warm responsible men.
Didn’t yell. Didn’t hit.
Kindness works wonders . Don’t confuse kindness with being weak .
I was strong , direct , affectionate and let them know I wasn’t a friend but a parent .
Yet, it’s kindness that wins the day .
8
My dad used to yell at me and pull me by my ear all the time. Never worked on me. "Talking to you is like talking to a brick wall"
3
Absolutely true. Put it this way: Imagine as an adult you were transported to an alien planet and had to learn the rules and ways of alien culture and every time you messed up you were screamed at or hit. After a while you'd be a nervous wreck wouldn't you, not quite sure what is acceptable or not and afraid to try new things, thus you would crawl into a shell of safety. I see so many people like that today (here on earth :)
26
@JGT33 I love your comment. When my kids were very young, I felt that I was in charge of introducing them, as little aliens, to the bizarre customs of our planet.
A lot of what we expect of children is arbitrary (as is clear when we compare our customs to other countries). Our culture isn't necessarily the best or only way to behave, it's just the way we do it here!
2
>It makes you look out of control to your kids. It makes you look weak
If the author is disentangles his views of other parents yelling from those of the kids they're yelling at, he might come up with something less doctrinaire and more nuanced. Kids learn to negotiate their way around the yelling; they're perfectly capable of timing they're appearances to minimise its occurrence or of coming up with plausible responses to bad stuff - whether it's a school report or problems with other kids. My kids did it - even if just to avoid a lecture - and I sure as heck managed it when I was their age.
I don't see much about on rule enforcement nowadays - now let me make a wild guess on the origins of impolite behaviour
/scratch_head
@Terence Park
I never had rules for my kids, I had very clear expectations that came with consequences not punishment if they were not met. It seems to have worked.
I have interacted with many teens over a long teaching career, and they would always tell me that disappointed Mum/Dad/Teacher, was always harder to ignore than screaming yelling adults who could just be tuned out.
3
Our 30-year old daughter, from birth, was always wanting to joyfully engage with her parents. To be sure, there were some things she resisted -- e.g., instinctively never wanted to be told to clean her room. I never had to yell at her -- it was unnecessary. Just figure out a way to get what I needed, and engage her in a creative face-saving way. Example, when she pouted and went up to clean her room, I went up to clean ours. She jumped on the suggestion that I would clean her room, while she cleaned ours. We'd each go back and forth asking where the other person liked to keep this shirt, etc. It was a bonding experience. The unpleasant morning wake up was reworked to a 10-minute warning when she would wiggle her toes as a sign she heard me followed by a five minute notice and a wake up. All without acrimony. As the adult, try to think of what the issue means to the child (maybe with thoughts of one's childhood) and take that into account. As the adult, you will make decisions against what the child wants, but do so kindly. Avoid too much "reasoning" -- that can be perceived as bullying by a child. Simple acknowledgement is better than false praise -- which will be seen as insincere and odd. The best teaching is modelling -- it also makes the parent a better person. I suppose this is easier with one child who was amenable to this form of discipline. PS, she is a loving, productive adult who has better judgment and self control than I ever will have.
17
@David - Yes. Exactly.
For those of us who never started yelling at our kid, it is sort of inconceivable that a parent would feel the need to do it. My kid is not perfectly well behaved - of course - she does whine sometimes in a really aggravating tone. But I have never yelled at her, and never spanked her, and she is the happiest most well behaved kid I know of. People are constantly commenting on her manners and how charming she is. I grew up with parents who screamed at me a lot, and hit, and I waited until middle age to make sure I knew myself well enough that I KNEW I would never abuse a child that way before I had a kid. Even as a little kid, I knew my parents were out of control and objectively wrong, but that yelling scarred me anyway. I was an incredibly depressed child. I will never do that to a kid. And I will never let anyone else do that to my kid.
8
@am
Thanks. My wife and I had fathers who yelled, sometimes raged. I am proud to have changed family history in this way.
1
I'd be interested to see how these kids react when they eventually enter the work force and the boss has absolutely no interest in handing out compliment sandwiches 20 times a day.
15
@Ron Dong Your jibe about "complement sandwiches" does have some resonance to my mind. The description of the over-the-top praise shows a lack of critical examination by the author and the person quoted - if yelling makes you look weak to your kids (and subordinates in the workplace), and it does, then excessively praising also makes you look insincere.
The general gist of the case made by the author makes perfect sense to me - scolding and haranguing are cathartic to the haranguer, but tiresome and hurtful to the recipients. Kids, like dogs, are smart enough to know when someone is being genuine and when they are being fake. While expressing praise is a good thing, exaggerating is harmful. There is also a tendency to praise every darn thing, which leads to building an expectation of praise and reward for every act done. It is a lot better to adjust the praise to the age and development level of the child - as they get older, saying something as simple as, "You are growing into a very sensible and pleasant young fellow(or gal)" is a much more effective compliment than the hugging and high-pitched Broadway acting method.
Kids are smart, but they lack experience, it is the adults' job to help them gain the proper experience and connect it to their smarts in a healthy way so they end up as adults with healthy egos, but also the ability to self-correct, be modest without feigning humility, etc...
2
Your comment shows how clueless you are. We are not talking about legitimate criticism here. We are talking about out of control parents yelling at their children and leaving scars that last a lifetime.
I can attest to the damage caused by an out of control parent who was a frequent teller. It did nothing to help and only damaged my self esteem, which took years and years to get back to a somewhat normal level.
Parents who yell are likely to be bad parents, because it means you missed a teachable moment earlier in time.
If your boss yells at you constantly, I would suggest that you need to look for a new job.
16
@Ron Dong We already have some evidence.
Let's take the management style of on Donald Trump. He's a screamer, an insulter, a person who bullies his underlings.
His office is beset with leaks, with people pursuing their own agendas, and burning out/getting fired
In contrast, Barack "no drama" Obama. His office didn't leak, worked for him, and people stayed a long, long time.
Looks like grownups don't react well to a boss who screams at them.
24
Yea sure, because the new ways of not disciplining children is working. /Sarcasim
Maybe if there were more real consequences, we'd have less brats and snowflakes. Yes, some children respond well to a light touch, but others still require more. It's upon the parent to figure out what works best and do it. Not disciplining is NEGLECT. Unlike pets, we can think. We can link reward based training to the idea that nothing negative should ever happen and we deserve rewards for everything we do. Leading people to see things like criticism are negative, therefore wrong. Since there was no punishments, they think anything can be done, they just won't be rewarded for negative things. What could have been taught by parents after a child steals candy is later taught by police after they've killed someone.
Yelling can work, if done correctly. You have issues if you get hysterical about it. Yelling in a commanding voice can get through, especially if you normally don't raise your voice. It doesn't usually need to be long either. Most kids get the message just by loudly using their full name. If lectures, yelling and time out doesn't work, a good spanking usually does. Also, the worse the offense, the worse the punishment. The idea of discipline is to instill the idea into them that punishment comes when they do wrong.
5
@Steven
"What could have been taught by parents after a child steals candy is later taught by police after they've killed someone."
So by your theory, crime rates have skyrocketed over the past decades, as clueless parents fail to properly discipline their kids.
Trouble is, for the past 25 years rates of violent crime in most parts of the US have been dropping, and are in many cases at historic lows:
http://thepublicintellectual.org/2011/05/02/a-crime-puzzle/
In fact, they've dropped the most in places most likely to be open to progressive ideas in parenting. The places that cling to old ways tend to still have high crime rates.
I understand that these objectively measured facts (and those Stephen Marche based his essay on) contradict common sense. So does the notion that the earth revolves from west to east, rather than the sun circling from east to west. But common sense can't stop the world turning.
19
@Steven Actually, pets can think too and hitting and yelling at your pets is counterproductive.
8
@Steven Every generation thinks the following generation is full of brats and snowflakes. And not surprisingly every generation is wrong on that score.
4
Children's Hospital teaches the ABC program to parents of special needs children, and it’s a great program. But special needs kids often don't remember direction 2 seconds after receiving it, let alone 7 hours. So that piece of advice is unrealistic. No parent wants to scream at her child, and parents certainly don’t feel better afterwards. They feel worse. But sometimes when you’re dealing with a child who literally can’t hear you because of the soundtrack going through his head (or the soundtrack he utters out loud which you have to figure out how to cut through), and you’ve tried literally everything else, it’s an unfortunate last resort. I agree with bits and pieces of this article’s content, but not the condescending and insulting tone that the writer takes.
9
I'm a brand new parent with a 2 month old daughter. I was raised in a household where spanking happened on a few occasions, but nothing that I would term child abuse. Nonetheless, corporal punishment will not be a part of my or my partner's parenting repetoire. Yelling at the kids during my upbringing was as normal as the sunrise. It was a way for my parents to get through to me, or at least so they thought. I would like to avoid yelling except in the most extreme and emergency circumstances (like my daughter running out into a busy street, as the author describes). So this article speaks to me.
The article espouses the benefits of the ABC approach. That is all well and good and seems like something I would like to follow. The article, however, assumes that this method always works, that the child will invariably follow the directive in search of that expression of approval and effusive praise. It fails, however, to address what one does in a circumstance where the child does not progress toward the antecedant. What is a parent to do when their child willfully disregards the A through their B. What's the C then?
14
@Bob Loblaw, S Choir:
I think the biggest mistake I have seen parents and non-parents alike make, is that they think that since THEY turned out all right (at least in their own minds) that they either try to re-create those same conditions for theirs or other's kids or, at most, to do a minor modification. As parents, with the awesome and sometimes mindboggling responsibility for the survival, education and life preparation of these initially defenseless creatures we call our children, it seems that we cannot over question our assumptions on this in order to learn better ways.
In response to your question as to what to do about the consequence portion, I have tried to implement advice if read in one of those parenting books about "natural consequences," and found that it has worked pretty well. e.g. e took our son the the zoo last weekend with a friend of his., a 5 year old girl. We told them they needed to stay near to us (for their own safety). When the girl started running ahead we told her that is she did not stay close to us we would make her hold hands with my wife. Then we followed through on that. (i.e. it was a "natural consequence" -- we wanted her to stay close for her own safety and when she did not we physically kept her close.) After a while, we let the kids go on their own again.
My last comment at this point is that parenting is an art, not a science...
7
@Bob Loblaw, S Choir From personal experience, make it clear to the child that disregarding the A through their B can have bad consequences. and when bad consequences happen (hopefully on some small issue and not anything too serious) then politely remind them they were warned about consequences and if they do not like this consequence they would do well to try A through B and see how that turns out.
Every once in a while every effort ends up in failure or disappointment. Even when we do the right thing we can end up thwarted. Those are opportunities to explain that life is imperfect and bad things do happen sometimes despite our best efforts, and the lesson to take from it is to keep trying, because not trying is worse. Sometimes we opt for the certainty of failing instead of taking on the uncertainty of succeeding, since it is easier on the ego. So we need to teach adapting to setbacks with equanimity and developing a healthy ego which can bounce back when needed.
Always remembering, life is imperfect, and life is always a work in progress (pun intended.)
2
@Bob Loblaw, S Choir Very good point. As the parent of an autistic child who, frankly, does not develop habits, all the ABC in the world isn't going to get you to the place where any of your goals are accomplished. When there really is no intrinsic motivation, and thus there are no meaningful consequences, progress of any kind is difficult. Relative to the general article, though, I have to agree to a large degree with the author. Yelling does nothing good for the child or the parent in the long run.
5
It’s because children aren’t (thankfully) in fear of corporal punishment that they get away with more than when I was growing up (in the 80’s). Therefore we parents are more powerless than in previous generations, and mindlessly yelling is our hamfisted response.
5
@Eric My feeling is that parents have plenty of negative reinforcement tools at their disposal beyond either corporal punishment or mindless yelling. One they should use a lot more, but is in fact way harder to deploy than either, is the removal of privileges. Yes, your kid will whine incessantly if you take the iPad or the Pokemon cards away. He or she will also learn consequences.
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@Eric corporal punishment has nothing to do with kids getting away with "more." It has to do with parents who don't understand how to model good behavior.
4
I was startled when my wife described how my loud voice frightened my daughter.
I never spoke to her like that again.
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It is good to be reminded from time to time of what we all know to be true, and to recognize that we will fall short and have more chances to do better. I know yelling doesn't work, but I do it sometimes. I apologize and we move on. I also try to teach my sons about showing that they are listening. Parenting demands persistence. Aiming for perfection is its own path to destruction.
18
We go from being told to not spank our kids on their behinds, now it's don't yell at them. Instead you want us to coddle our kids.
First off I was spanked and more as kids, I'm good. I only gave my now 22 year old daughter timeouts where she would hit and kick me, at 15 because she didn't get her way as I was pregnant as a surrogate, she threw a fit over an $8 bottle of perfume, began shoving me on my belly, not caring that I was pregnant. Ran outside and told her boyfriend, I punched her in the face, broke her jaw and her mouth was dripping blood, she told her I was abusive, that I beat her constantly and so on, his parents called the cops and DYFS. Police came told her she was acting like a spoiled 15 year old and then a few days later, I had a knock on my door this was after they went to my younger daughter's school, pulling her out of class to talk to her, which she has sensory issues so talk about screwing her up, then when gettting to my house seen just how things were and nothing of what was said was true. This is what happens when you only do timeouts. So given that I was abused with thick belts and more for doing nothing because he was unhappy by my stepfather as a kid I refused to spank my child. With my younger daughter, I had to be careful because of her sensory issues but I certainly will not coddle my kids or grandchild.
2
@Mar Yes, and my aunt once survived a car crash because she WASN'T wearing her seatbelt, but that doesn't change the fact that wearing your sealbelt is essential and saves lives.
16
@Mar: I say this with the realization that I may not be correctly reading/comprehending everything about your situation -- but what I read here is indeed a strong advertisement for avoiding spanking or otherwise physically disciplining. It does not sound at all like you are "good" after being spanked and abused as a kid. Instead, it sounds like an openness to violence got carried over into your relationship with your daughter, to be expressed by both sides. (Again, I say this with the caveat that I am not sure whether I read correctly that you punched your daughter, or whether she wrongly claimed that you did.)
7
@Mar
If this largely incomprehensible narrative communicates anything, it's that whatever kind of parenting is going on in your household is no model to emulate. Perhaps your having been abused, as you say, may be a reason why?
7
I just looked up Stephen Marche because the advise and the tone in this article are so strangely at odds. The advise is good. The tone is a massive scolding fault-finding unhelpful guilt trip. I just learned that Mr. Marche is a very young man, and a novelist who reads the Journal of Child Development. The advise comes from the Journal. The tone comes from a very young man with no professional expertise in the area he is writing about. I'm surprised at the NYT, and no wonder there are so many angry comments.
51
I was also bewildered as to how the Times could choose to publish this crappy article, crappy because it’s based on the work of ONE specialist at Yale who has been cited many times in popular news, and provides an unsympathetic lack of advice for parents on how to control their anger, and just generally treats a very important topic very lightly. The guy from Yale should have just written the article.
Poor editorial choices here NYT.
Yelling gives a message to others that one is out of control? Hmm.... Does this remind me of anyone?
30
the writers expertise in this field consists of having a podcast on parenting?
As a pediatrician for over 30 years I can tell you that this is a stupid article. Certainly if yelling is your only tool for parenting, then your children will likely be negatively affected but how many people does that apply to? And if yelling is so bad for children then why do we allow" yelling to stop your kids from running into the street"?
who remembers ever feeling "in control" as a child because their parents were yelling? How do we expect these non yelled at kids to react when they get to be adults in the real world?
Parenting is difficult and it represents how a parent best accomplishes raising a family. This family includes all the children, and the parents as well. Children need to know what and when their parents are displeased,, and need to learn how to react that way.3 years are not rational beings who can be talked to. Parents who feel they have no control over their kids become anxious and depressed, and then really can't provide adequate guidance. of course yelling at children makes them feel anxious, that is the purpose! Parents need to use all the tools available to them, yelling discussing, approving and disapproving, etc..As a parent of 5 relatively normal adult children, I rarely raised my voice, but I did have a stern tone when I was displeased.My children still discuss that tone as "you yelled or are yelling at me". Simple answers are for simple minds not complex behaviors.
22
Proverbs 13:24
Whoever spares the rod hates their children, but the one who loves their children is careful to discipline them.
3
The Bible is full of bad advice.
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@Endo the rod is supposed to be used for LEADING not hitting. That’s the original meaning of the biblical rod.
4
totally disagree with the article . the use of spanking has been in a decline as in parents arent spanking their kids anymore . Look what we have now . disrespectful children .
6
@jeff This is ridiculous. Children have been disrespectful since the beginning of time, always thinking they know better than their elders.
Think of something better.
6
We treat teachers as "the help" - just another kind of service provider, like the corner barista - and wonder why our kids don't respect our authority. Must be some teacher's fault. Who's up for a witch hunt?
2
Yeah. We should be like the Indian parents who proudly point to their Prince that just stole a box of pencils at the PTO Carnival, with announcements in the background "please return the pencils, they are one per child." I am Indian, so no racism here.
2
@MoneyRules When children do something wrong, like taking all the pencils, it's helpful to explain why it was wrong and provide a way for the child to make amends. Saying "they're one per child, please return them" gives a child a clear path, without undue shaming. They can correct their error while maintaining their dignity and physical safety.
As for your racism, I can't really help you with that. If you think only one race of child is ever naughty, maybe you don't now many children.
1
You never have to yell at your kids if you know what you are going to do to actually stop the negative behavior AND YOU DO IT and they know that you will. The use of social isolation to put an end to unwanted behavior rarely doesn’t work. But you have to carry through on what you say you are going to do. Also, the overuse of punishment for stupid behaviors or minimum annoyances is not smart parenting. Is making the bed or keeping a room neat really that important? For some, but for others if you can close the door or not have to go in . . . Who cares? Kid can’t find their homework? “Oh, that’s too bad. Maybe it’s under the bed. . . .” But it isn’t the parent’s room and they shouldn’t go in if they don’t actually live in it. Different story if the room is shared with a sib. In short, parenting is thinking through a myriad of situations that arise from a life’s worth of living so that you stay mostly in control and don’t waste your time trying to “keep the lid on” a growing changing human being.
6
What I can tell anyone who wants to listen to a 68 year old mother of 3 living children who are successful and now into their middle-age, is this: If you want a peaceful elegant lifestyle then don't have children. However if you enjoy constantly having to deal with insubordination, rudeness, sneakiness, constant fighting among siblings where you are expected to act as referee in favor of each one, where excuses run rampant, and malicious damage to your possessions, well then, go for it! It will turn around. Why do I know it will turn around? The Mother's Curse!
At some point your children will have driven you to utter "I hope you have children just like you!". That's The Mother's Curse. It's a pretty safe curse because being a child is almost scripted.
The drive to procreate is slightly above to the drive for self-preservation. Very few, as in 1 in a million, are going to listen to all the reasons they should not reproduce. Human's are killing their environment and yet they are still having children willy-nilly. Then, here's an article telling parents not to raise their voices to the very people who will hate them until they, the children now adults, have reproduced.
Parents yell because children don't listen. We all reproduce because we don't listen.
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@Susannah Allanic: yours is the best response! I don't have kids..I'm now old enough to be a grandmother. My husband and I have a peaceful, elegant lifestyle with our 2 cats full of friends, relaxation, books, music and travel. I was the oldest of 4 girls. My mother yelled (my dad, not so much). When I was in my mid-20s, I decided I didn't want to have kids. I asked my mother about her childless older sister, my aunt, whether my aunt wished she had kids. My mother looked at me and said, "No". I don't wish I had kids either. Thank you for your thoughtful and funny comment.
5
@Cindi T, Cindi T, neither one of you, let alone the person that responded to you, think in your lives.
@jal11180 Huh?
full time working widowed mom of 9 year old ASD kid. this totally works and yes, you will feel silly doing it but you will also see results.
1
I feel everything in moderation. If a child doesn't experience the full range of emotion. The world isn't always going to coddle your child and they need to have a working emotional reference. The World is not built around your child! This is one reason why we have the Millennial Syndrome. Child Adults that cannot cope or lack coping skills. The rise in mental disorders such as depression and suicide. The World is often harsh and the weak will not survive. Physical health and proper nutrition is important as well as proper emotional health. This includes learning to deal unpleasantness. Spankings are not wrong...beatings are. Police do not have a problem beating your loved ones to death being that the situation suits their blood lust. Perhaps this article should be given to them. We've seen a rise in this kind of behaviour and the legal system's expressing a wide range of youths lack of respect for authority. I know that this 'child coddling' is the root along with family isolation through media and single parent households. We've better get back to the basics, of communication, accountability, and responsibility before it's too late. And believe me religion and school prayer has nothing to do with it. Ask the Catholic church, and other religious institutions how they've dropped the ball on moralistic and humane behaviour. It starts with YOU and your child! WAKE UP AND BE A PARENT NOT A SUPPORTER OF AN UNRULY UNDISCIPLINED HYPER SENSITIVE BRAT! TRUMP IS THAT POSTER CHILD!
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@Theresa, beatings and spankings are synonymous. As a person that was diagnosed as autistic as an adult, spanking and yelling are two things that you absolutely DO NOT do to autistic children, and especially if they went through abusive childhoods. Yes, strong discipline is necessary, but there are too many people that think that Proverbs 14:22 is talking about literal rods. Maybe they would rethink those philosophies if the children that they punished in such a manner snapped and beat them like they were pinatas?
3
Parents can't spank their kids any more. They can't "yell" at them. So how are kids supposed to be disciplined?
I go to only a few places where kids are present. The bookstore, where parents let their kids sit on the floor and destroy books. Parents then put the torn/dirtied books back on the shelves and walk away. Or in a restaurant, kids scream and act-out, parents ignore them. Other diners just have to shake their heads and grit their teeth. God forbid the parent should tell their kid 50 times to shut up. Especially since it does no good - the kid knows he or she won't be spanked and won't be yelled out. Why should it do anything it doesn't want to do? After all, youg kids know better than their parents about everything under the sun....
3
@thunderchild Surely there is a happy medium between spanking/yelling and completely ignoring your child while they wreak havoc? The parents you describe (I've seen them too) are no less negligent than the abusive ones, they just think they're doing well because they're nice middle-class people. You can correct your child in a firm but loving tone, and you can tell them privileges will be removed if they don't behave properly (and then follow through, something too many parents don't want to grit their teeth and do because they know it will be met with incessant whining).
4
If I walk into a B&N and see vandalism, I'll know who to blame: you.
If that last comment is directed at me, no you wouldn’t. If my kid defaced a book, she would be brought to the manager, made to offer a polite apology, then we’d buy the book and when we got home, a favorite toy would be taken away for awhile as consequence (or allowance debited). Spanking or yelling can scare a kid, but can they teach her why a specific thing is wrong?
2
Articles like this is why we have out of control children and teenagers now.
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@Jared
Right. Because everyone knows that yelling is oh so effective.
2
@Jared
Articles like this are also why there are fewer working husbands sitting in bars and getting drunk before they go home for dinner.
2
Who'd have thought that in 2018, we still have to tell people not to scream at or violently assault children?
14
If you do not, you will lose the control and respect of them. It is your choice.
2
Yes, but how does a parent handle a child who's hitting them? How do I express the fact that he's causing me pain without a good yell?
9
@Anastasi Force them to stop. "By any means necessary".
1
This article is someone's utopian dream of unicorn land with candy trees and chocolate rivers. Most of the children I know literally don't even hear what's being said unless the voice level is at least a 4/10.
15
@Thanks Some behaviors are set in place when children are too young to even understand words. If at that stage those kids were controlled by yelling, they will still keep pushing till they are yelled at, no matter what the actual words being yelled at them.
I see people walking their dogs being cruel to them and stopping them from socializing with other dogs. I see parents who have similar control mindset on their kids. It is a testament to the robustness of natural design that the world is not more full of crazy, out of control people.
For all of the folks who cavil here about bratty kids of today - compare the alcoholism of parents today versus the alcohol consumption of parents in say the 1890s or 1950s and see which parents are more sober and more fulfilled as parents. Then complain if you must.
2
@Suppan Here's some badly needed perspective. In the Victorian era parents spoke to their children once a day. Kids were dressed in restrictive clothing and expected to sit nicely all day long. Parents believed even minimal amounts of affection would spoil a child. Many Children Started Working At Age 4. Children could expect to get a beating if they did even minimally naughty things. I would wager that many Victorian parents would have their children removed by today's child welfare services.
I discipline in control with a belt. It's rare, but if it calls for it, that's what they get. And my children are a blessing to me and others. They love the Lord, and understand His ways. If more people disciplined the way God laid out in Proverbs 23:13, we wouldn't have society of little punks and zombies on their cell phones.
2
@Proverbs 23 13, if you touched me with a belt, then you would be wearing a belt in a way that would not be its intended meaning. Yes, society would be better off if people focused on YAHWEH EL ELOHIM and His Laws and Statutes, but beating your child, and yelling at them, does not get the task done, nor was it meant to do the task, and I say this for several reasons.
1. No matter how authoritative that you are in your life, if The Word of YAHWEH EL ELOHIM is not taught in the home, then your "spare the rod, spoil the child" message will not work, period, full stop.
@Proverbs 23 13
Do you think there is someone in Heaven walking around with a belt? Or is it the tool from that other place?
7
Adolescents are by definition defiant. Being reasonable, as with this ABC approach, is certainly reasonable. It will have zero impact on a defiant teenager. The writer is a novelist. Novels are fiction. So is this suggestion. It's not irresponsible advice, just obviously ineffective and useless.
7
Sounds like dog training. Well, maybe it does work for other small, dependent creatures, who knows.
6
Yelling or beating children is a common behavior of people having a history of alcoholism and other drugs or people who have been themselves badly treated by their parents when they were children. A vicious circle!
17
Half latino half italian background here. All the moms were yelling all the time, then two minutes later we were kissing and hugging. Kids were central to life and the household.
My brother and I now in our 40s jokingly apologize all the time to my mom for driving her crazy. Despite all the yelling, people in my family and extended family are really close, even when/if kids moved away.
10
@cb77
Nice to hear your experience. Just to push the thinking a little bit with your example - while your Mom yelled and self-corrected with the hugging and kissing, she undid the damage the yelling would have done if left uncorrected. That is clear from the fact that you guys still love your Mom and seem to be normal and happy reflecting on your childhood. Just for thinking purposes, would you Mom's life have been easier, you guys would have driven her crazy less often, if she had skipped the yelling stage and focussed on fixing your behavior in a manner that did not need the extreme mood swings? Again, this is purely for thinking purposes. Obviously your Mom handled all of it well, from my observation (I am a 52 yr old man) Moms suffer a lot (emotionally and in terms of life opportunities) in order to raise their children. Whether it is the refugee Mom or suburban soccer mom, they have it a lot harder than their men and that is a reality of life. If we can make it a little bit easier, a little bit more rewarding, it is effort well-spent. So if we can reduce the craziness (it will never go away since life is unpredictable, etc) that can be of great value to everyone. Or so I believe.
1
Gee. Wow. Tell us the obvious.
Yelling is bullying. Parents should not try to be their children's friends but they fer shure shouldn't be their enemies.
Everything I learned about parenting I learned from my own parents. As in--do the opposite to whatever they did and it'd be a safe bet I was heading in the right direction.
Feeling frustrated? Pinch the skin on your hand, or something. Need to get their immediate attention? Yelling won't work if you yell all the time. Save it for "there's a saber-tooth tiger in the living room, kids..."
8
I worry that the author is maligning a common (and even valid) form of communication. Pumping up the volume, so to speak, has meaning. It expresses emotion. I would rather raise my voice to my kids and have them understand that yes, people yell sometimes and then they move on. Yes, people get frustrated. Yes, people get mad. These are human experiences.
Isn't content more important than form? Yelling commands (which usually happens at our house after speaking them several times) is very different from yelling insults.
20
@Lisa I disagree that yelling is a common and valid form of communication (how many times are you yelled at on an average day?). I don't think most people would put up with it for long from anyone unless it was absolutely necessary (which, from one's parents, it is).
I totally agree with the idea that children do need to be prepared for the world though, and yes, they should know that people get angry -it's normal- yelling, however, isn't.
5
@Dylan for the sake of being clear - I was thinking about a range of human expression. As human emoting goes, yelling is not an uncommon human experience throughout the species (as opposed to throughout the day). I did not say that it was normal...although as some have noted in the comments below, it is more common in some cultures than in others. The WASP side of my family was pretty quiet. The Italian side was pretty loud.
3
@Lisa I too like to get the hammer out each time. The way I use my tools, eventually I am going to need that dang thing anyway, so why wait, why consider other options, I just go for the hammer first thing. :-)
1
Yelling to children is simply verbal beating and its deep scars last whole lifetime, not a few days as it is the case in physical beating.
10
I think parents can look weak if they are yelling all the time, but I sure don't look weak when I have been ignored multiple times throughout the day and finally raise my voice almost to the fullest. This actual yelling doesn't happen often, but it is the only thing besides pulling the car over along the freeway that works if we are in the car and my defiant son won't stop misbehaving.
Praise works well...if there is something to praise. If you've ever had a defiant child, you would understand how some days you are just waiting for anything to praise...trying to encourage and help guide children into expected behavior...yet the child knows this and it totally backfires.
3
What would I do when my kids run the household and I have absolutely no incentives for my kids to behave like human beings? Just asking.
2
More of the invaluable wisdom, from the people whose theories have brought us a generation of 30 year old boys who cant put down their Play Station controllers long enough to find a Job, a Woman, start a Life.
You need guidance on how to raise your Kids, Ask a Grandmother! Preferably of 7 or more Kids; even if you have to Vist a Home to Do it; they will likely appreciate your time, and interest in their experience.
But its time we as a Nation stop listening to "Experts" whose theories have clearly failed in the real world and produced a Generation with no interest, or ability to become Grown Ups!! Remember Grown Ups!! Nuff Said.
7
Yelling at your kids all of the time is wrong, we can possibly agree with this. Try to use your 'outside' voice only when you absolutely need to and they know you mean business. For instance when they're entering a physically dangerous situation like getting hit by a vehicle, falling down a cliff side, et al. Yelling at them constantly doesn't work very well. Use it seldom and it can be an effective tool in the parent tool box. Especially when you need it most for their protection from danger or an accident. Then they understand your alarm is real.
3
When we effectively outlawed corporal punishment, we created a monster. Kids are growing up with a sense that everything is negotiable. Their moral compasses are all relative. The only thing that remains. Tell them once or twice in a civil manner. If the bad behavior persists, take away there phone.
4
I am a proponent for lots of love and lots of discipline in a home. The problem is not yelling by itself. It's too simplistic to say yelling = good or yelling = bad. The whole family dynamic and relationship has to be taken into account. In the situation where a parent is constantly yelling while showing very little love or compassion otherwise, that is probably verbal abuse. However in a house where there is love and encouragement yelling can be far less damaging, and potentially not at all.
When my parents yelled growing up I understood that meant things were serious/important/needed to paid attention to. Thinking of this leads me to another point...kids are not angels. I am a father and have numerous nieces and nephews and have seen first hand that kids can be just as manipulative and intentional about pushing buttons as adults. I know that kids are eager to please/learn but the idea that they will always willing comply is not rooted in reality.
I don't necessarily disgaree that yelling can make a parent look "bad", it certainly can. But I think that's okay. Parents can be weak and out of control and the home is probably the place where emotions run highest. Hopefully they respond better in the future (and hopefully the children do too). The idea that as soon as you have children you become some superior being completely in control of all situations as well as your own emotions is both asinine and arrogant. And the idea of an emotionless home is scary.
10
There's yelling and then there's yelling. I was raised by a yelling mom whose rages traumatized and paralyzed our entire household (she was several steps better than her brute of a father, who belted her). I left home as soon as possible, but my brother bore the brunt of the rage, and I can see its effects today in his struggles against alcoholism, his lack of self-esteem, and worse, the suicidal urges that have dogged him since childhood.
Fast-forward to my children's childhood, when I would lose control and yell at them. It was always brief, and I never hit them, but I knew I had to stop. I agree completely that very young children should not be yelled at. I can see that my son, now a teenager, has been affected by my shouting. Now I shout very little, but I can see the lingering effects, and I wish I had those years back.
10
Hmmmm. Well, I grew up in a different generation. Probably the only time I ever yelled at my kids (or my grandkids/greatgrandkids/dogs) was when they scared the stink out of me. If my progeny is about to run into traffic, believe me, I will yell....reasoning does not help at that point. But if you use it all the time, it does not work. Still not too sure about spanking/corporal punishment. I think I did it once when my kids were growing up, but it worked....and used correctly, it has worked for generations.....I get what the studies say, but I also know that my generation did not raise any mass shooters.......something is going wrong. And its time we figured it out. What we're doing now is not working. Sorry to spoil your little circus. But if something isn't working.....do something else. Let's go figure it out.
4
Basically agree with what you say, although it is very hard to do.
A child should be treated just like an adult, no hitting, no screaming, no shaming.
The only difference is the punishment. The adult gets the warning, fine and if need be jail whereas the kid gets the time out, grounding, etc. etc.
4
The meta-message here is that our kids are hungry for praise and physical touch.
Touch your kids, smile at them, reflect their beauty back to them, value their feelings, be their allies. The rest sorts itself out.
5
It's important to acknowledge that "yelling" is not the same as shouting. When a child pleads with you to "stop yelling at me" you may think 'but I'm speaking softly' - and you probably are. It's the tone and language that is wounding. You don't need to shout that the child is unworthy to make them feel that way.
3
While I disagree with the article's "smiley face" praise approach, the rest of it's spot on. Habitual yelling is puerile, and traumatizes those on the receiving end. In my birth family, yelling, sarcasm, and casual insults were common; I didn't realize what mature people were like until I met my future husband. His family treated each other with kindness. They considered yelling in anger an offensive loss of self control -- that doesn't mean it never happened, but it was rare, because they knew how abusive yelling can be. I originally considered his family weaker than mine, but learned over the years that they're much stronger.
My birth family ultimately blew apart in acrimony, alienation and hostility, while his family remains close, and his siblings and their offspring have succeeded in demanding careers partly because the respect and compassion they were raised with gave them self-confidence.
An alleged adult who throws temper tantrums makes others fearful and anxious in his or her presence, and engenders contempt. Those too immature to control their emotional outbursts will scream at their own children beginning in infancy. It's no surprise that these kids, helplessly dependent on an emotional tyrant and unable to understand why they're the focus of such anger, grow up depressed, hostile, and seriously troubled. I'm lucky. I married into a family that doesn't consider yelling at others the way to treat those whom one supposedly loves.
12
Agreed punishment does not work, or risks deleterious outcomes. Disappointed and surprised at the seeming hypocrisy of the essay in condemning parents for a hurtful intervention that the author ironically models. Does yelling at parents or humiliating them promote positive change or resentment...shame? As a therapist, I’ve evolved the support I provide to parents. I used to tell them to stop yelling, but over and over noticed their expression shut down. Parents seemed to engage positively when I collaborate with them to discover their parenting hopes, struggles, stressors and successes.
I suggest we avoid yelling at everyone, and, as Marilyn Manson suggested, listen.
2
In one Ann Landers column, she shared what children thought parents should/shouldn't do. One suggestion: don't yell at me, if you don't want me to yell.
As a parent myself, one approach I realized a bit later than I wish: when you want to yell, tell your child that you, the parent, will be taking a time out. Then, go sit on the stairs and breath deeply for a bit.
8
Generally when my mother yelled at one of us kids growing up, it was because one kid was about to hurt the other - or perhaps the kid was about to do something stupid that would result in hurt to themselves.
Taking a parental timeout is not always a viable solution
4
Yelling? There are parents who yell at their kids for discipline? That's so weird. I hate yelling so I didn't want my kids to yell, so I didn't yell, kids do what you model for them.
Mine are young adult/teen age now and maybe this is one reason I have found teens to be overall easier than kid age. They have more ability to make good choices than the little ones and are better able to set good goals.
I wanted my kids to use "No, thank you." and "Yes, please." So I always said it exactly that way, the phrase was ingrained from babyhood on.
To clarify, I do yell for non-angry reasons, like calling them inside or to warn of a danger or to have them hear me with headphones on.
7
To all those saying this is too much of a burden, I say: Grow up. The author acknowledges yelling at his kids himself. All he's saying is try not to and here's how. That's not imposing a burden. It's offering a way of being a good parent, which is to say, a way of being your best self -- which is what we're asking of our kids, right?
3
So what is the parent supposed to do when the shoes are not put away? Because that will be the case 90% of the time.
3
@Adam
take them away. if you can't take care of a possession, you don't deserve to have it.
It's never okay to yell at someone, anyone, because you're upset. The idea that it is healthy to express anger and thereby hurt someone else is a fantasy. Not saying it's easy. Anger is the enemy of instruction.
2
My father used to yell at me as a boy all the time. He didn't just look out of control and weak, he was. He died, I don't miss him.
9
I don't think yelling per se is so bad, it is when it is accompanied by parental anger or hurtful words. The world is full of families who talk loud, and that is a whole different thing.
5
I've read variations of this article several times now over the last couple of years. I'm wondering if there are any peer reviewed studies on the effectiveness of this ABC methodology of parenting? Likely not. It's patently ridiculous to expect parents to anticipate every possible situation where a child could misbehave and setup a counter expectation hours in advance. Somehow if my kids misbehave in a way that I didn't anticipate and call out at the beginning of the day it's my failure as a parent? I also think kids see right through less than genuine praise, and it will be ineffective very quickly. Everyone knows, and feels, yelling at your kids is not ideal behavior, but these lazy articles designed to make parents feel bad while offering no real solutions don't help at all.
5
This is what I esteem to do everyday with the kids (though sometimes it doesn't quick work out). When a parent yells, it tells the kid, for one, that using yelling as a form of communication is okay, sanctioned. From yelling, comew rudness, disrespect, and a whole myriad of nine-headed hydras of bad behavior. I have always tried to treat my kids the way I would like to be treated. With respect, with politeness and with dignity. Even when it comes to getting them to eat their vegetables and putting away their clothes.
3
Dr Kazdin either doesn't mention his own children anywhere on any bios or he has none. Given the nature and conclusions of his research, I'm going to guess he has no children and has never done bedtime or asked a child to clean their room. Sometimes you have to yell just to break the spell that something more interesting than you has them in. I think it depends on what you yell, not that you raise your voice. This is right up there with the research that says dogs don't like to be touched on the belly.
2
Old hat, classic conditioning: reward desired behavior, ignore undesired behavior. The most important thing for this to work is being consequent. Both parents have to be consequent, from the very beginning, throughout infancy to puberty. Then you can raise your children without having to resort to negative reinforcement (i.e. punishment). You do NOT have to talk your children through what you are doing and why, they do NOT have to understand your reasoning or why something is expected of them. If you get into these kind of talks, STOP IMMEDIATELY, for you can only loose (they may retrieve to an invincible standpoint of complete moral skepticism that you’ll never defeat, and you will end up yelling at them.) Your rewards should be smart: big rewards for big accomplishments, small rewards for small ones. If you waste big rewards on small things, the reward-system itself breaks down and won’t work anymore. You will have difficulties motivating them to do things that are actually really hard for them. That is where I think the article errs - praise should be genuine, but appropriate. If it’s over the top, they notice quickly and loose trust. (Besides that, there is a clear correlation between being showered with praise as a child, and developing strong narcissistic personality traits later on.)
3
It seems to me that many people want to put children on the same level as adults, but they're not. They're kids. The adults are supposed to be in charge and in control. This idea that kids can rationally decide the correct thing to do is ridiculous. They are neither fully educated in the world nor emotionally mature enough to handle it. That's why they have parents and adults to guide them. I'm not saying yelling all the time is a good thing; it's not and loses effectiveness over time. But a good shout let's them know you mean business. It must be nice to have all day to wait for the message to get across in a calm quiet fashion just to make sure some shoes get put in the right place. Really? I'd say for most parents shoes are the least of their worries and most parents don't have that time. The school bus isn't going to wait around for your precious child to figure out where everything goes.
Beyond that, emoting is a good thing. Love is emotion and so is anger. There's nothing wrong with expressing anger and displeasure at disobedience. The idea that we shouldn't express negative emotions is also quite ridiculous. I yell at my daughters from time to time. They learn their lesson and move on, and rarely do I have to repeat myself. My family is Italian-German-Puerto Rican, yelling is part of the recipe. One thing is for sure there are no entitled snowflakes in my family tree. And we're all successful well-balanced people.
1
I only listen to folks who actually have kids right now - not the childless teacher or psychologist or guy who had 1 kid 45 years ago. So what if you have a classroom full of kids during the day - you can send them away if they act up. You don't want to be on the receiving end of an angry 12 year-old when he gets home from school where he held himself back for 8 hours.
Parents today are completely helpless. Once we take away electronics (the only consequence ANYONE ever offers when I beg for help), we are left with yelling. If I lay a hand on one of my teens, they dial the police.
3
Really extreme yelling, of the type that seems "out of control" is best avoided. But I'm not sure which is worse: the loud, angry voice of a clear command, or the phony-calm, cajoling tone of the amateur behaviorist.
Also, when did effecting behavioral outcomes become the entire purpose of parenting? Sometimes, whether you do a behavior or not is less important than learning to realize how annoying it is.
And also, isn't there something intrinsically demeaning and degrading about treating your children as behavioral systems to be systematically modified by you with no checks and balances?
Basically, I think parents have a right to be heard and to have their views appreciated, and to intervene as much as is absolutely necessary, but I don't think parents have a right to control their children's behavior.
2
@James: "I don't think parents have a right to control their children's behavior"
Surely you don't mean this as a blanket statement. A big part of parents' job is to communicate safety and security boundaries to kids, especially small children -- say my toddler breaks away from holding my hand is about to lurch headlong down a flight of stairs, is it not my right to grab her and give her a loving but firm warning not to do that again?
1
@James
I really think that parents not only have a right to control their children's behavior but they have a duty to do so.
Otherwise what type of society would we all end up having?
And if we don't control their behavior when they are fairly young do we expect children to suddenly know right from wrong when they reach 16, 21, 30 ? Correct behavior will not suddenly fall from the sky although a prison sentence
might if we don't take the time to correct our children's behavior. I don't believe in corporal punishment but I do believe in strict boundaries. The experts agree that if boundaries are not there children will keep pushing until they are found . Children feel safer when boundaries are in effect. The key is to make sure everyone knows the rules and when they are broken there must be consequences.These consequences must also be known before hand. If the parents do not follow through with consequence every time, they are not doing their job and the children will know that their bad behavior is acceptable.The consequences are extremely important and a great deal of thought should be given as to what they are. Time outs when they are very young and as they age giving extra jobs to do or removing the use of phones or cars.This system works only if you start it at a very early age .
2
I remember reading somewhere that a punishment made in anger is easily forgotten but a punishment in cold blood is never forgotten.
4
I was with you till the part about effusive praise:
"You have to be effusive, so you actually have to put a big dumb smile on your face and even wave your hands in the air. Next thing is you have to say, in a very high, cheerful voice, exactly what you’re praising. And then the third part is you have to touch the child and give him some kind of nonverbal praise. The silliness is a feature, not a bug. It makes the kid notice the praise that accompanies correct behavior."
Bad life lesson. Praise does not always accompany correct behavior; in fact, there have been many times in my life when correct behavior (ethical behavior or adherence to quality standards) led to my being seen as difficult and not getting with the program, when those around me preferred the comfort of mediocrity.
Also, I vividly recall an incident in my late 50s when a young optometry technician was giving me a series of vision exams and chirped "Good job!" continually. I wanted to experience sudden blindness just to make her stop.
How about taking a quiet moment while putting the child to bed to say kindly, "Hey, I noticed how neatly you put your shoes away, and I appreciate you helping make our home a more pleasant place. It takes teamwork to make a cozy home, and I think our family makes a pretty good team when we all work together!" And if the child is at least five or six, "If you have any ideas about how to spruce up the place or keep your room organized, be sure to share them!"
7
Regular bouts of yelling only frighten young kids. They are observant enough to intuit that someone who is responsible for their well being is not able to control him or herself and that scares the bujeezus out of them. Their only option is instinctual - fight or flight - mimic the bad behavior or try to swallow the fear all alone. Neither outcome is in anyone's best interests.
This is different than the occasional moment of being at the end of one's patience. Going back when calmer and owning those moments with your child is essential to avoid managing your child primarily through fear and intimidation -- which, if done regularly, guarantees a troubled child.
I've seen this over and over again in 40 years of working with children. I'm all behind limits and boundaries - kids need structure and routine - but there are a lot more creative and effective ways to ensure such boundaries besides hollering all the time, and you don't have to be a child psychologist to figure out what they are. You just have to talk with other parents who seem better able to get a handle on such things, , get on the same page with your spouse, and quit thinking that dominating your child is the same as loving and nurturing them.
3
Speaking as a teacher, a situation where you can't yell at everything and physical discipline is forbidden, I agree with the writer's viewpoint. A teacher needs to clearly explain and model the behavior he or she expects from her students. When students do not comply, there must be some sort of consequence such as a "take a break" chair. This separates the student from the rest of the class and gives him or her time to think about his or her actions. You may also ask the student if he or she thinks that the action was a wise choice. Why or why not? If the misbehavior persists a trip to the office and/or a call to a parent might be necessary. I am not saying that teachers should never yell. There are times when a serious attitude and a raised voice are what is needed to get students back on track. But it must be used sparingly and as a last resort for it to have the desired impact. In general, praising a student for good behavior does work better than yelling about bad behavior. The only danger for teachers in this respect is that they may take the students who consistently exhibit good behavior for granted. Students who follow rules come to resent the students who receive praise for not breaking them. As the author makes clear, all of this requires planning, thought, and patience. I might add that you should probably think about this the next time you think that teachers have it easy and are overpaid.
4
Anecdote is not data...nevertheless I felt compelled to add to the data set with two samples counteracting the "spare the rod, spoil the child" commentators. I have two children - one daughter aged 18, the other a son aged 14. Neither has ever been spanked or yelled at, not once by either myself or my wife. They have both turned out to be polite, courteous, studious, non-violent, extremely well adjusted children. They have both been treated with the utmost respect from the moment they were born. I assert that it can in fact be done without spanking or yelling.
11
@jeff
That's because your kids are emulating your behavior, "Behaviors are where the behavior is defined and shaped, modeled by the parent." [Emphasis added on the latter]
These "terrible" kids are just reenacting learned behavior they gleaned from the ones they look up to most, their parents. When you spank a child you're teaching them that physical violence solves issues, so they hit their sibling. When you yell at a child to resolve the issue you're teaching them exactly that, that yelling stops it. That may be how some people raise kids but it's not how you raise functioning members of society. They raise their kids worse than you raise a dog. They punish the bad behavior only when it occurs and but unlike training a dog they don't reward the good behavior.
4
Back when I was a middle school teacher, I learned three policies I brought into my parenting: 1.) Look for practical environmental solutions. Instead of angrily blaming the kid who loses homework/permission slips in their backpack, make a brightly colored dedicated home-to-school folder and email the teachers so they know to use it. If your child forgets to do chores and you have a cat, have the kid start feeding Fluffy treats at chore time. After a week of this, put a visual cue for the chores next to the treat jar, and Fluffy’s yowling for her expected yummies will do some of the reminding for you. 2.) Start with mild responses whenever possible and escalate only when needed. After the first misbehavior, simply state the rule. Next comes responses such as more pointed verbal reminders, like my daughter’s best trigger, calling her out by her full name. Make the consequence increasingly less pleasant as the misbehavior continues, and always follow through. If you enforce this consistently they’ll soon see you mean business, resistance is futile, and after the training period you should rarely need to go beyond the first two steps. I would have to raise my voice maybe 2-3 times a year at work, and even less often at home. 3.) Praise real accomplishments often and loudly. Warm fuzzies are meaningless and rather demeaning, but kids feel truly valued when you recognize and celebrate their successes.
3
This article clearly tells us how to calmly ask our kids to do something and how to react when they do what is asked of them, but it doesn't give any advice or suggestion or insight as to what to do when we've asked nicely once, twice, ten times, and the thing still isn't done. That's when I yell; it's so frustrating. I could praise ALL DAY if my kids did the things I want them to do at exactly the moment I ask them to do it (even if that moment is "after school" or "when you're done with your snack" and not "right now!"), but that is not often the case and the praise that I give when it is the case, has not yet led to the formation of positive habits - and my kids are 9 and 11.
11
@JJJI Use modeling or lead by example. Show how things are done. Then I would ask them to show me exactly what I just did. Then I would tell them that I expect it to be done that way. Also giving some sort of purpose or reasoning behind the task
1
@JJJI
Here is what worked for me when my three were younger:
1. We can watch television as soon as the living room is clean. If you guys want to go to the park/movies/mall this afternoon you need to pick up your rooms first.
2. The parent has to be willing to quietly, patiently stick with it.
I'm not angry. I don't need to yell. It's a shame that you have missed out on the thing you wanted because you didn't do what you needed to do first.
The key is make sure the motivator on the other side is something the kid really wants.
Calm consistency wins every time, it just might take a few days to get the point across.
My never spanked, seldom yelled at GenZ kids are respectful and helpful. Just sayin'
3
"In the 1960s, 94 percent of parents used physical punishment. A poll in 2010 found the number had declined to 22 percent"
Doesn't this prove the opposite point?
I don't think anyone could disagree that children's behavior today and of common courtesy and manners has been in steady decline since the 1960s.
FYI: not an advocate for hitting kids, just asking...
8
@HRone
Blame the TV, violent videos and games, and now the cell phone plague.
@HRone, I'm pretty sure the "children's behavior today...." lament is a few hundred generations old.
2
I disagree with everything said here. This is why we have weak Adults...that can't handle stress in the work place, can't handle anything that contradicts their views...kids need spankings, kids need to be yelled at on occasion...what he failed to say is what your yelling at them for, calling them stupid and a loser is not productive, yelling at them for for doing something they shouldn't shows them the emphases that what they are doing is wrong...and as a parent it stops them dead in their tracks, and if I have to warn them again they know they will be punished. Anyone who disagrees needs to get a grip on reality.
6
@Terrie There's so much research / data disproving what you so strongly believe. Even in this article -- the findings are that yelling at kids contributes to anxiety and depression. You are creating fear and obedience in your children, when the goal ought to be creating adults who have learned, through loving relationships with parents and other adults, to reason through problems, including stating their own position. Your last line is what your kids are hearing: "I'm right, you're wrong, shut up."
3
@Terrie Nobody need to be hit as a form of instruction. To say so is simply an excuse by a "weak" adult to commit violence.
3
Luckily I gave the article a chance and read the rest, but 4th paragraph of "It doesn’t make you look authoritative. It makes you look out of control to your kids. ... " isn't a great way to entice readers, it likely encourages people to hunt down your email or the comment board to toss negativity BACK your way and that's not on the readers.
3
I don't like yelling and I often apologize to my kids after it happens, and acknowledge that I regret it. But sometimes I am just at a loss when I need them to do something important to their health, e.g., brushing their teeth, going to bed, etc., and they simply refuse. I don't feel like I can just give positive reinforcement on the rare occasions where they voluntarily comply and wait for that to take effect. By that time they would probably have multiple fillings and many wasted days of school where they were too tired to learn. There are things in between running into the street and putting shoes away that are critical but not absolute emergencies. Someone please advise!
11
Another ridiculous essay about how all parenting techniques employed since adam and eve are wrong-headed. Of course yelling is a release-- and thankfully it lowers the temptation for physical punishment by blowing off a little steam. Like all parenting techniques, however, it loses its effectiveness with frequency. Yelling is useful for its shock value to get a kid's whirling brain to stop and pay attention-- if all you do is yell then of course it loses its value; the signal is lost to the constant noise.
In contrast, I've seen way too many parents work the calm reasoning approach with zero effect and then wonder why their kids grow up to be undisciplined jerks. Yell infrequently, but please feel free to yell at your kids.... and ignore every new study that says otherwise, since it is likely to be refuted within the next issue of any child psychology journal anyway! These studies are notorious for their lack of reproducibility.
8
@Bill K Sorry Bill, the research from the 20th century through today shows that hitting and yelling are ineffective when it comes to helping children behave the way we want. There's a whole lot of reproducibility in the findings. You can punish; you can win. Those things create distance in relationships that are more effective when they're characterized by closeness and mutual respect.
1
@raph101
How about in helping children behave the way we want once they are adults? Surely there is value in raising children in a way they don't grow up thinking they are special and exempt from the rules the rest of society has to follow?
1
My teenager just forwarded me this article and now I'm trying to decide whether or not to yell at him for reading the NYT when I'm pretty sure he's in physics class right now; or praise him effusively the next time he doesn't read the Times.
101
@Julia
"praise him effusively"
Another bad thing as beating and yelling! Maybe worse!
Julia – Thanks for making me laugh in the comment section that has otherwise been extremely heavy.
2
Hey, I was brought up in the 50's and my mother was "explodable" (I say that with love). She thought nothing of yelling and grabbing my arm and twist pinching..... Believe me, that hurt and it stopped whatever I was doing..... flat! I am all the better for that and can now understand that she was human, with human emotions, and I was human rebelling against authority......but when it came to that pinch....she always won and kept me in line. I understood authority thanks to her.
3
@Carol I know another mother of that era who was "explodable," too, and we discovered quite recently that for one of her children, that meant something much more disturbing than arm-twisting and pinching.
Opening the door to hurting your kids is opening the door to hurting your kids. Period.
2
Just so we’re clear on the parenting guilt shaming, yelling is now worse than spanking? Huh.
2
@Seagulls
Yes! It is worse according to my experience.
1
I can’t decide which is more insulting: this piece or the critical comments from a bunch of unlicensed “family counselors.”
2
Yelling at you kids all the time teaches them that the loudest, meanest, most out-of-control, idiot gets to be the one with the most power. This explains a lot doesn’t it?
20
What a crock. Ever since we stopped spanking and started pampering our kids we have created a generation of unfeeling mass shooters.... This is not going to help. If anything it will amplify the issue. Kids need to learn respect. All these mass shooters are coming from the generation of "alternative parenting".
2
you want to know the most widespread parental stupidity today??? thinking you're kids are your friends. you are a parent. you are there to teach and to mold. not to be a friend. you're kids don't know right from wrong, good from bad, until yoU teach them... this is the dumbest article I'll never read.
3
I couldn't disagree more with the author. Praise works as does punishment, in fact punishment can be a very effective tool. Yes you can yell too much, you can spank too much. But I myself as a child benefited from both spanking and being yelled it.
Aside from the punishment establishing a hierarchy within the home, the world is not all sunshine and rainbows. Being spanked and screamed at is shock treatment for these kids. I've met a number of kids who were not yelled at by their parents and when they were yelled at by their bosses, coaches, professors or peers, they can't emotionally handle it. Where as I can be screamed at and it not come close to ruining my day, it rolls off the shoulders. This is of course anecdotal evidence, of course but let's not pretend like the psychology referenced in the article relates to everyone.
2
@Luke There is a good slice of what you say that is also my experience having grown up in a large family where there were lots of "spats" and recovery or resolution between siblings and plenty of responsive (anger) discipline from my mother which we DID learn to respond to and manage in our own ways. So I can see how your "shock" theory works and ADDED with a good helping of ABCs (fm article) would be a good balance to child rearing.
1
@Elcomom thanks for the reply. Interesting to see that we share a similar perspective from childhood.
We all yell. Just admit it and try to be better. After I’ve yelled, I feel bad and I follow with an apology. A real apology. Use it as a learning tool for yourself and your kids. But do keep your cool as often as possible.
8
Many times I yelled at my kids and I regretted it, and I told my children so. And, realistically, I will still yell, because kids are frustrating and I am not perfect.
I have discovered over many years that politely asking them to do things does not work. What works best is walking away when they explode (anyone with a teenage daughter knows what I mean) and refusing to help until they do the requested act.
My kids know they are loved and supported. They also know I am not perfect, and feel comfortable reminding me of that.
7
I raised 3 sons who are well into adulthood and are good, responsible men, with whom I have a warm relationship. I agree that losing control of yourself and screaming at your kids is not effective parenting, but I also don't hold with praising your kids to the sky just because they put away their shoes. It's because of that sort of parenting that so many young people today go to pieces in the workplace because someone so much as looks cross-eyed at them when their performance isn't up to par. Instead, I used a couple of tricks that I learned from my own father. One, after telling them first nicely what I wanted them to do, was using my command voice, not yelling, but stating with firmness that what you want them to do is not negotiable. If that didn't work, the other trick was to call them using their full name: first, middle, and last. If I heard my dad call for me with "John Doe Smith! Get in here.", I knew I was in trouble. So then did my own kids, and they would straighten up and do what was required of them, where the simple fact with kids is that sometimes what is required of them, like finishing their homework, is not something they want to do. Sure, my ultimate objective was for them to be self-motivated, but sometimes you have to cut through some of the clutter in their lives to get them to understand that some things matter more than others and just need to get done.
9
@Irish Rebel
This, this is how you parent. If you lower yourself to yelling and screaming, your words mean next to nothing. On the flip side, if all you do is praise, the child will think they can do no wrong and assume any effort in anything is enough. Placing your child in front of the TV or with other forms of media will teach the child that whatever they're watching or doing is the right thing and will be the basis of their moral and ethical code.
Written by someone who has either never had kids, or hasn't reached the teen years. It's absolutely important to establish order and authority at a young age. I don't believe in spanking but raising your voice is sometimes the only way to establish authority, especially in times of danger, such as walking across a busy street.
8
@David Lieder
"especially in times of danger, such as walking across a busy street."
This and similar situations are only good examples of yelling to children when there is an immediate dangerous situation.
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Parenting is hard work, patience and preference. It's ok to have feelings around children and raise your voice on occasion. The bigger concern is parents with controlled isolated behaviors and/or command behaviors. If you raise your voice with children when frustrated be sure to explain why you're upset, what they did that bothered you, and if their a consequence it should be reasonable, remove a privilege. Raising children is highly social, people with social deficits might be overly yelling and controlling, or the opposite being robotic and controlled. It's important to recognize healthy behaviors in parenting and build strong communication skills with an emphasis on the social world. Its also helpful to recognize persons with social deficits and help children with parents on the spectrum.
5
Psychologists know that, to modify behavior, negative feedback is relatively ineffective. It's sometimes necessary with children, but seldom works very well.
It can, in fact, be counterproductive. The human mind associates cost with benefit--so if one pays a high price for a particular behavior, that behavior must have a large benefit. 'Not putting my shoes away is so much fun that my mom has to yell for 15 minutes.'
So punishment should be restrained to the minimum required to cause appropriate behavior. Also, once children become a little older, it helps--on a lot of levels--to tell them when they've disappointed you, and to tell them why you feel the way you do. They usually want to make you happy, and will try to do better; they also acquire emotional intelligence.
No one's perfect. We all need to blow off steam sometimes. My father told me once 'never argue with a child' --it makes you appear weak and makes the child less secure. But I think a line needs to be drawn between arguing and discussing. It's important for a child to understand why certain behavior is expected. And it's important for us to understand that (though infrequent) the child might sometimes be right.
You don't want to raise an adult (which is what we're doing) that always thinks they are wrong.
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I'm fairly certain that when I was 10 years old and my father yelled at me, and more times than not deservedly so - the first thought that raced through my young mind was not how weak my father appeared to be but undoubtedly who was in charge.
I'll be sure to explain this concept to my boss the next time I don't hit my sales goal - that yelling at me only increases my anxiety and my stress levels. Of course, I'll have to deal with the black depression that follows after I get fired and can't pay my rent - but at least I'll feel better about myself.
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Irony, there @Brian. The notion that a yelling dad is a dad "in charge." A dad out of control, more like it, and sadly so.
Just like the parents that are still hitting their kids regardless of research showing that it isn't effective discipline, and causes addiction, anger, and violence issues (after all, what does hitting a child to resolve conflict demonstrate except that violence is a legitimate form of conflict resolution) while rationalizing their behavior with "I needed it" and "I turned out OK"... it is sad to hear adults claim that they
"deserved to be yelled at" by their loved ones.
As for hitting sales goals, can't help but wonder why you're "missing" them in the first place. I lead a sales team, and I can't imagine doing something as destructive as yelling at somebody that misses their mark. Only encouragement, and assistance helps the salespeople in my employ... the ANTITHESIS of yelling.
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@Brian You might first want to examine your analogy. Your boss is not your mom or dad. S/he is also not your therapist, and should not be the person you turn to process negative feelings after being verbally abused in the workplace.
You view the world through an authoritarian lens. You feel most comfortable in settings where there is a clear hierarchy, where you know "undoubtedly who is in charge." There's nothing wrong with wanting that kind of structure. It's a mistake, though, to bring abusive tactics, such as yelling and hitting, into your parenting. It scares the kids and shuts down the thinking parts of their brains. We all lose control from time to time, and it's appropriate then to apologize, unless we want to raise kids who are unquestioning and obedient as adults, and also kind of miserable and out of control themselves.
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So Stephen Marche is a novelist and the host of a parenting podcast. But Stephen Marche is not a compassionate observer of human behavior. Yes, parents yell at their kids because they lose control, but losing control is, at that moment, beyond their control. The parent, who was also once a child, and is now a struggling adult who probably has a job, perhaps a student loan, perhaps a mortgage, perhaps a difficult marriage. They yell because they are overwhelmed and they didn't learn better skills for dealing with life's difficulties from their parents, they didn't have the best parenting behaviors modeled to them as children. More than smug opinion pieces like this one, policies that support affordable higher education, parental leave, quality childcare, and community mental health support for adults would help parents to not yell at their kids. Research supports helping a parent with emotional problems is the best investment for healthier children.
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As someone who was brought up in the 50s and 60s in a household where yelling, hitting, and spanking where common, virtually daily occurrences for myself and/or my siblings, I can attest to the lifelong damage this environment created for the children who grew up in it. From middle age, I refused to participate when my mother still seemed to feel the need to periodically yell at me, like she could not let one of my rare and short visits end without a yelling episode. I feel sad for my mother and my childhood family that could not establish a loving environment, and I fervently hope that today's families find better ways of being, as discussed by the author and many commenters of this piece.
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This is the principle that I live regarding my kids. If one desires to raise a child, raise oneself. Regarding communication to kids, take the TIME to assess the situation and do ones best to respond in a manner that that may be able to comprehend. So far my method is working pretty well. Kids (and adults) need time to interpret and to analyze the consequences of actions. Once this is completed, the likelihood of a positive outcome increases.
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Well, if there's a parenting podcast, then this must be authoritative. Much appreciated!
So my dog trainer says not to yell at the dog because it shows that I am not the Alpha because I am out of control. He suggests (and it works) long hard stares, calm commands with a voice of expectation. Letting the dog know I am the alpha through other methods and expectations and to give lots of praise when she meets those expectations. This commands respect from the dog. When she does wrong, be bold (but not yell, don't hit, be in control). As he put it, the way you would raise your child. hmm...food for thought here.
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Dogs aren’t kids. Next.
Read Kazdin's work, which is based on BF Skinner. I learned a lot from his book on parenting defiant children, even though mine are/were not particularly defiant.
Kazdin says we punish because it serves our social need for "justice" but really has little effect on achieving behavior change. In fact, Skinner said, "never punish." What Kazdin describes instead is pure Skinnerian behavior shaping, achieving the behavior you want from your child through rewarding of successive approximation of the desired behavior, followed by fading out the rewards once the behavior is established. It works. (It can even work on spouses).
Yelling now and then is human and at best an occurrence only by accident, followed by an apology for losing one's temper. It should not be a strategy, however, for raising kids -- or for having relationships with other adults.
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@Kristina, with respect Skinner's kid committed suicide.....many of his methods were suspect. This article is pretty good, though.
@John Diamond: Skinner's daughter did not commit suicide [https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/one-man-and-a-baby-box/] Still, I had hoped we'd be way beyond Skinner's ideas today. Sugar-coated Skinner is not the way to go.
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Okay, well, I've used both techniques, yesterday, I reasoned with my son, he's 12, to clean up a mess in his basement. So he cleaned up where I could see, but then when I went to check the rest of the room, I warned him that if his Father came in and he didn't have the mess cleaned up, I didn't want to be him and that finally worked. I then told him he did a decent job, corrected what he thought was cleaned up but wasn't and we went on about our day, but I did have to get stern with him before he actually made an effort to clean up the mess. So if we do wait to praise them once they do what we say, it may never get done...
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Really? It's 2018 and this is the best alternative we have to yelling at our children--smarter behavior management? Better to ask, how do I get through the day without yelling at my friends? Co-workers? Boss? Turns out, the only people we yell at are our kids. Why? One, because we can get away with it, and two because we think our job is to control our kids. We can't get away with it with adults, and neither can we control adults. So we don't yell at them. Until we treat our children with as much respect as we do a friend, client, co-worker or boss, there will be no improvement in the emotional environment our children experience. Children are eager to please, eager to cooperate, eager to explore and learn, eager to do pretty much everything that turns them into wonderful adults. Why must we mess with that and try to program behaviors that come naturally? Read Alfie Kohn's Unconditional Parenting for a good guide.
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@Mark Sawyer
Well, very well said!
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@Mark Sawyer Ummm... the day my coworkers decide they can toss Legos all over my house when they know I have trouble bending over, or deprive me of sleep so I can tell them ten bedtime stories (and then show up for more entertainment at 5:30 on a Saturday), or break all my stuff that's out in the open (and some that isn't)... I might just start yelling at the coworkers. Or, more likely, I might quit. Which is not done when it's kids dishing out the fun.
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@Mark Sawyer Thank you - your comment is a ray of sanity among all of the commenters triggered ("guilt tripped") for the author daring to question their verbal violence against helpless smaller humans. I had the very same thought about how rarely we see adults yelling at other adults in everyday situations. When we DO see an adult screaming at someone - in a food establishment, in the workplace, or on the street, we think, "Wow, something is really wrong with that person yelling. S/he is out of control. There's no justification for acting like that." Blaming kids' behavior for a parent yelling at them is a manifestation of the cycle of abuse in domestic violence in which the abuser blames the victim for "causing" the violence.
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I agree, praise behavior when it is done correctly. However, the article talks about having a consequence in advance instead of yelling, and there is no mention of this. Do we just ignore inappropriate behavior? Is there no way to correct the inappropriate behavior? We need to have both in order to decrease the yelling.
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@Joelle
"Is there no way to correct the inappropriate behavior?"
Yes, there is. Starting to correct one's own behavior.
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@Joelle - We need to have both to return to a sane, decent, livable society that doesn't require crying rooms and safe spaces for college-age young men & women who are so spoiled they simply can't handle it when they don't get their own way, and think that socialism would be a GOOD thing.
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Eh, I disagree. As parents, we should never value "effectiveness" and compliance over our kids' emotional health.
It's OK for our kids to see us angry, and to judge how we deal with it.
It's important for them to learn about how their behaviors affect other people.
It's good for them to have an example of how to vent anger responsibly and honestly, instead of bottling it up, constantly repressing it or trying to numb it away.
And, it's absolutely crucial that they develop the tools to withstand and respond to others' anger, or they'll be victimized by angry bullies for life.
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@Patrick - Well said.
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In our house the ones that did the yelling were the kids, and they weren't getting it from their parents. It started when the eldest went to middle school and stopped once th e youngest was around 23.
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Another article to raise the stress level of parenting. It might have been useful framed as another tool in a parent's toolbox. Works well with rules that have their own natural consequences for breaking.
I know the method works--because I used a mix of it and more conventional yelling and punishing, and I know what what worked, at least for my 3 successful, happy no longer kids.
But it's hard enough to be a parent. Here you present a plan for managing behavior which requires considerable planning and endless patience for every rule, every issue? Perhaps very talented full-time parents could manage. Not me.
Sometimes the best solution involves a loud, angry "next time I see your Nike's on the living floor, I'm confiscating them for a month and you can wear dress shoes to school."
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@Laura - I agree, except that you're too kind to describe what this article is promoting as "endless patience for every rule" on the part of the parent. A more accurate description is "teaching your child that the rules don't really matter, and don't really have the consequences that they were told that they did." Then when they're young men and women, they join fascist Antifa groups, riot to stop much wiser and more knowledgeable speakers from trying to teach them truth, logic, and common (or once was common) sense at college campuses, and the like. When their performance on the job is mediocre, at best, and they don't receive praise for it, they'll be offended. It might cost them their job, even their careers, since it would presumably lead them to become thin-skinned and bitter, rather than better. The ideas presented in this article are a cancer that, I'm afraid, is probably what many parents are actually doing in today's society. I base that solely on the results that we're seeing, which match well with what these ideas would be expected to produce.
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Cant argue against some of the negative effects. Makes sense. However does anyone ever consider the negative effect of being treated like a snowflake all the time and be shielded from and not being exposed to "bad behaviour". When will they learn to deal with it. Millenials are struggling enough as it is. Should we shelter the next generation even more? Not sure our efforts to be better are working as intended.
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@Adam
Millennials aren’t struggling due to behavioral issues. If we hadn’t graduated into an economy deeply in seizure (off and on since 2001), we’d be doing just fine.
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@Adam
I live in the snowflake capitol of the northwest. The schools are having a hard time finding places to go when high school students start throwing tantrums. These kids never learned to control themselves or realize how there behaviors affect others.
@Adam You say not yelling at someone is treating them like a snowflake. I can guess by your comment that you are a yeller. Yelling is a symptom of helplessness, weakness, loss of control and moreover is a bad example. Nothing good comes from it. Also, "bad behavior" demonstrated by parents is the first thing kids learn and learn well. Fortunately, learned behaviors can bet unlearned, but only by people who are motivated to make the effort. It's definitely not for snowflakes.
Effusive praise for putting shoes *close to* where they are supposed to be? This is why so many grown men announce every little thing they do around the house and expect "effusive praise" for emptying the dishwasher. No one, except maybe toddlers, should get effusive praise for doing things they know are expected of them.
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@Maine Dem "This is why so many grown men announce every little thing they do around the house and expect "effusive praise" for emptying the dishwasher."
I'm guilty of doing the "announce every little thing they do around the house" behavior, but I don't do it to seek praise. I just want to report on what was and what was not done.
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@Dave So just raise your child to respect authority figures and to accept responsibilities! You own the house, not your kid.
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please don't. your wife noticed. instead notice things that she's done.
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I yell rarely, but that doesn't mean that I'm doing it right. My kids are more daunted by my quiet, calm-but-simmering-underneath voice. I'm not sure that's any better for our relationship.
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@CousyI yell rarely? One should never never yell to children. Try it on adults and see the results.
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@Turgut Dincer,
You are sadly mistaken. Children are much tougher than you give them credit for. You are promoting an outcome of extreme inabilty to cope with adversity. Adults experience stressful 'conversations' between each other ALL THE TIME (more emphasis, there, not really yelling).
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I am a mother to 8 y/o twins and have used Kazdin's methods to help with my kids from a young age. His recommendations are very helpful in turning the atmosphere in a home from a negative one to a positive one. BUT...parents don't yell to discipline their kids. They yell because they've reached the end of their patience after long days and hours of being patient. Yes we can hold ourselves accountable and work to stop yelling but what really helps is acknowledging why the parent is feeling so strung out. Regardless of what the kids are doing if we feel rested, supported, happy and confident then WE are less likely to yell. A parent who is yelling is yelling for help. They need to be encouraged to give time and priority to some of their own needs. Enough sleep, time for personally rewarding activities, time away from kids, a living wage, good affordable child-care, good maternity and parental leave laws, realistic expectations, and an active supportive community of parents would all go a long LONG way in decreasing parental yelling. If we don't recognize the role that these very real stressors play in parenting behaviors then it's hard to truly help them. We are imperfect people and imperfect parents. We all yell at our kids sometimes. What can really help is to calm down and follow this up with, "Sweetie, I'm so sorry I yelled. I love you even when I'm frustrated and upset." When you acknowledge your imperfection and apologize it gives them the freedom to do the same.
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@kathleen
I completely agree. While both the parents and the teenagers in our family are guilty of occasional yelling, our teens have learned from us that apologizing for bad behavior after the fact may not make up for the bad behavior, but it certainly clears the resentment. Acknowledging that we are not perfect people, and that we can and should try to not to blow up and take our feelings out on others. I am often complimented on my children's good manners, and have seen them defuse their own arguments with their friends by apologizing and acknowledging their errors. It makes me feel confident that they will be better able to deal with conflict as they move on to college and their own lives. The ability to recognize that even good people have bad days and the ability to forgive it and move on is a skill that not enough people are learning these days.
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@kathleen Thank you so much for your response. I felt that this article was a bit judgmental in approach. I once tried a a week of no screaming and yelling at my children, but found that the yelling wasn't for them and their behavior. It was a release for me, whether good or bad. It was a result of a build up of stress and the expectations you outlined. Triple claps for you and your response.
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@kathleen And what if they struggle to function without that supportive community?
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Appropriate punishment works. What's appropriate differs depending on the situation. My parents yelled and spanked me as a child, but they also loved me, supported me and gave me lots of positive attention. I have a great relationship with them to this day. One can exist with the other. It's about balance.
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@Kurtz While I don’t personally agree with spanking, I do wish the author would have written more about the study she referenced. Did they only just focus on yelling? We’re there other behaviors by both parents and children that may have had an effect on the observed outcomes? Perhaps the families that yelled did not balance their parenting methods as, I agree, is necessary.
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@Hank
Many studies only look at the correlation between a few variables. Because kids with behavioral problems act out more the parent are more likely to punish... So study any punishment and you will find the more a child is punished the more they act out. Abuse is relative and the closer the bar is to normal behavior the closer the line of abuse is. It is not the spanking or the yelling that damages children it is the lack of love and support.
@Kurtz There is a good book about the punisment of children:
http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/57689
I think the big issue is when yelling becomes the norm, i.e., when it ceases to be about discipline, it eclipses talking, laughing, and peace. My memories of my childhood household are of an unremitting battle zone. PTSD can be acquired from any battle field, including those disguised by pretty lawns on quiet suburban streets.
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@Mike Yes, absolutely. I sense some of the "I got hit and I turned out just fine!" comments here are perhaps protesting too much, while wounds are suppressed until they themselves lose it and then hit and yell.
I was afraid to be a parent myself because I worried I'd lose control and harm someone small. I did a ton of work before having a child. I was and am a work in progress -- but I never struggled with the urge to hit my little person, which I view as grace. My siblings and I were much more intentional in our parenting than what we were raised with, and we have happier, less neurotic kids.
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I teach kids from the ages of 3 to 17. I have a reputation of being the teacher who doesn't yell. I work in the arts and my classes are voluntary for those who take them. They are always filled with waiting lists.
On the first day of any class I inform the students that i don't yell. I also tell them that if I get very quiet they should take notice.
If some kid acts out, which is usually an attention getting device
(bad attention) I focus on a child who is well behaved at that particular moment and praise them, ignoring the troublemaker.
It may take time but pretty soon the kids understand that the way to get attention is to behave.
The older ones notice immediately when I become quiet and elbow each other whispering "Uh Oh, she's mad." They always, in turn, calm down. It's amusing but it works.
I've seen parents yell at their kids. The kids shut down. It all becomes noise and creates fear. It solves nothing.
Yelling is not being in control. In fact it is the direct opposite. Shouldn't the adult in the room be the one who controls the dynamic ?
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@A. "A.creates fear."
Which will last all the lifetime of these children!
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No, yelling doesn't make you look weak. It makes you look terrifying. I was scared of my father, who yelled at us regularly, until the day he died.
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@BA
"I was scared of my father, who yelled at us regularly, until the day he died."
Are you sure you are not scared anymore?
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@BA I couldn't agree more. My mother, who possibly also struggled with mental health issues, regularly yelled at me and humiliated me, and in those moments came across like a witch riding a tornado. It took me several years after breaking off all contact at age 45, to get the anxiety she instilled in me out of my system. I still refuse to see her. And no, I certainly do not love her and never have.
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This article would not play well in other cultures where communications are infused with a much broader range of emotionality — say, Greek culture. Perhaps the author should expressly indicate that a more emotionally repressed culture for raising children is preferred — say, WASP.
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@Bill Bluefish
Exactly! In the black culture, we don’t hold back from discipline, which sometimes includes yelling. People have become too worried about their children’s self-esteem to tell them when they’re doing something wrong.
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It’s all about frequency. I can tell you, I have two boys and corporal punishment ie a little pinch here or there was absolutely the best behavioral “incentive” that I had. Also, raising your voice let’s them know that you mean business. Obviously if you do it all the time then it loses its effect but sometimes it definitely is useful. Let’s not overthink this. Just use common sense. I know that’s hard these days.
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I believe that those who yell often spank.
My father yelled and spanked (wasn’t a drinker). Dinner time was a battle field. We feared him. I left at 18 and two brothers followed. The youngest, by ten years, doesn’t remember home life the way the three oldest do.
Guess the old man’s voice and arm wore out.
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My father yelled all the time and never laid a hand on me. Please don’t generalize.
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Most forms of yelling may be as ineffective and counter-productive as this writer says. On the other hand, saying things like "stop kicking that man please", and "please don't throw those bottles", as we have all heard at some point, are scarcely better.
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Children should be loved, I agree.
But this advice to not yell at them belongs in the garbage bin of history and psychology. As it is there is enough molly coddling going on and we are producing ill prepared, entitled little brats.
Once in a while (deserved) yelling is not just good for the kids and parents. It teaches them that nobody is perfect and people can get mad sometimes.
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And while we are at it, stop with nonsensical columns about how we should treat children like adults (i.e., expecting reason to work with them). They are kids. They should be treated as such until they aren’t.
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@FurthBurner
One should respect children as one respects the adults. They are our equals. The word "kid" itself an offense to children.
@FurthBurner Reason does work but it depends on the age and the child's personality/ maturity. Age because below a certain age, usually the child has not developed enough. But I will say that reason worked extremely well for my mother when I and my brother were children. Now that I am in my 40s, my mother finally admitted my brother and I were extremely easy kids. Case in point: by the time we were 6-7 years old, we rarely asked for treats, toys, etc. and never threw tantrums if we didn't get anything. My mother explained and we understood we simply did not have the money to afford extras. However, we knew that Mom would pay attention and buy a desired toy or treat for us when she was able to. I tend to think parents these day overly spoil their kids with material items and yet don't give them attention, time, and care -- like the Sunday pancakes Mom made and the trips to the local playground -- that they really need.
I'm most surprised by all the comments justifying yelling - author is guilt tripping them, parent is frustrated and nothing else works, yelling gets the kids attention, constant praise is just as bad (it isn't). Yelling is a form of indulgence, an ego trip, a way to assert power over another; yelling is mean, yelling is bullying.
How do you know the difference between the shouting to keep the kid from danger and the shouting to put the cap back on the shampoo bottle? You can tell by how you feel afterwards.
A former child of a verbally abusive home, I've spent the first part of my adult life severely depressed, the second part in countless hours of therapy - and estranged from the yelling parent. Author wasn't kidding about the low self esteem - impactful in relationships, job negotiations, everyday life.
Do the world a favor. Stop yelling at your kids for discipline.
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When an 80-year old adult (hearing & mind intact) refuses to comply with simple, clearly & politely articulated requests - THEN what do you do? I sometimes yell! I am at my wits' end.
I so agree. Respect born of fear is not respect. It is mere manipulation. I have 30 kids in front of me 5 times a day. Can you imagine if I only got my students to work for me by scaring them by yelling all day long? Good God. No one would become a teacher if that's what we had to do!
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Sometimes parents yell because they have reached the end of the emotional resources they have to stop themselves from yelling. Sometimes they yell because they're stressed about something unrelated. Sometimes they yell because they're worried, or tired, or incredibly frustrated. In those situations, parents can model for their kids how to take responsibility for their own actions, apologize for behaving poorly towards their kids, and move on.
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When my son was 3--years-old, I told him I was sorry for all the yelling I had done, that I wanted to stop, and asked him to help me, as sometimes I didn't hear myself. Five minutes later he told me I was yelling. All of a sudden, whatever he did "wrong" was less important to me than controlling my own behavior. I brought my voice down, thanked him, and just like that, my yelling was over, at least as directed towards him.
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@Martha Schwope That point is important and seems to be missing from this article -- parents should hold themselves to a standard of behavior not because it's a more or less effective way to control their children but because it's how they want to conduct themselves as adults.
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Raise your hand if you've ever had this experience: You're having a conversation with another adult who recounts a memory of being disciplined by a parent. Your friend describes the incident in lurid detail, something like, "Yeah, when Dad saw me sneaking back in the window the next morning, he took off his belt and beat the living daylights out of me. I couldn't sit down for a week." This is followed by laughter and shaking of heads by both speaker and listener(s), including you. Perhaps you have even been the speaker in this scenario. My question is, why do we share such memories with what appears to be fondness?
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@Greek Goddess
Short answer: it's how we've learned to avoid feeling the pain of humiliation.
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@Pearlandvb
As a parent it is about using the tools that are effective. If you limit yourself to one tool you are only going to be effective at solving some problems. I remember being a kid and children are not stupid they are naive and they learn how to get around a punishment techniques especially if used frequently.
Its about conditioning. Negative consequence for bad behavior and reward for positive behavior.
These people need to realize that more "safety" won't solve the problems faced in the western culture.
@Pearlandvb I was not a better person, nor more goal-oriented, nor successful, nor a better citizen for being hit as a child. I doubt anyone is.
Nothing shows a smart kid that he’s in charge like getting his mom to blow her lid. Especially in public. Whether you realize it or not, yelling at your kid always redounds on you.
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@Dave Smith
Also, Nothing make you look like a weak adult to other adults as letting your child yell at you in public. Really those people yelling at their kids public should realize there is the most effect form of punishment is available to them when they are out. Public humiliation is a very effect control mechanism. Its one reason why crime rate are so low in Singapore.
My question to the author. Do you really think any parent intentionally yells at their child? Or their spouse? Or anyone, for that matter?
Thanks for the serving of guilt and self loathing.
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@HALFASTORYLORI You make a very important point. While this article contains good advice and interesting information, the tone is critical, judgmental and scolding. The apparent audience for this writer is people who yell at their children. Too many sentences begin with "You". I also question the claim that "most parents" find it hard to get through a day without yelling at their children. I taught 7th-9th grades in a middle-sized town for 35 years, and I got to know a lot of families. I have good news about the general population. Most people get through a whole life without yelling at anyone, much less one day. I might venture a guess. The author has a problem with yelling, but has controlled it by substituting manipulative passive/aggressive guilt trips. I would say "No thanks" to the serving of guilt and self loathing.
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@HALFASTORYLORI So if you are not yelling at them intentionally, you are yelling at them unintentionally? That shows a lack of awareness and a deficit in the ability to control your own actions.
In other words, exactly what the author said.
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@HALFASTORYLORI Yes, REALLY. If more so-called 'Parents' would ENFORCE their Directives, we wouldn't have a generation of such pitiful excuses for offspring. You Say what you Mean, and MEAN What You Say. Humans of most any age CAN NOT Learn without hurt. We forget too quickly. People Yell because they've had ENOUGH. Empty Threats are USELESS, and so is the person using them. NEVER Threaten, Always PROMISE. Or Warn. ONCE. Maybe Twice. After that, it's on THEIR Head, kids OR Adults.
I can't help thinking this is ridiculous. The author says "I don't mean yelling at your children to prevent them from running into the street". But that kind of reason (or hitting their siblings or running away from you in a crowd or disappearing from the lawn etc.) is exactly why people do yell at their kids. IT GETS THEIR ATTENTION like all caps. I would far rather yell and make sure my kid stops the behavior instantly than resort to some slower method for theoretical reasons. It doesn't make your child feel unloved, it makes them know that some things are vitally important.
Yelling too often or about trivial things takes away the effect, though.
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@Leila Schneps
But I think that was exactly the author’s point- yelling in emergent situations, where loudness is needed to get the child’s attention right away, vs yelling due to parental frustration and anger, for instance because the child has made a mess, not done what he is told, is being disrespectful, etc.
To lump both of those categories as equivalent because yelling “gets their attention” misses the point.
I work with families and kids and I can assure you that the vast majority of yelling I see is for more trivial things.
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Yes I do agree that yelling at the children is no solution and that it makes children feel inferior and even feel depressive. Actually yelling is the problem by itself. I never yelled at my children. Parenting is no joke. I wish happiness and success to all parents, who strive for their childrens’ better future.
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Constant praise is no better than constant yelling. If one hears something all the time, it gets tuned out because it has morphed into an assumed presence.
A judiciously timed yelling indicates strong urgency, while constant yelling turns into mere background noise. Constant praise becomes meaningless, esp. when given for mundane, unexceptional acts.
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Except that constant yelling is the equivalent of constant violence and constant praise is not. If you did not grow up with constant yelling you have no idea of the scars it leaves.
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@Jim
The author was not advocating for constant praise.
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@Jim And yet, the author did not advocate constant praise. They explicitly stated that praise comes when the child has done what you requested of them. That is reinforcement of desired behavior, not "constant praise".
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Well, I know something about this because I was actually a kid once. All I remember feeling and thinking when mom yelled at me was fear, because she was particularly, ahem, demonstrative. Weak? God, no. More like a powerful tyrant. I think you're projecting on to children more social understanding and sophistication than actual. Secondly, how are you so sure "discipline has been in decline for 50 years"? Do you get the impression that parents are in more control of their lives than ever? Do physically violent people dutifully self-report?
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I’m a nanny of an adorable 2 yo girl that doesn’t like noise of any kind, including loud voice. When she climbed on stool recently and her 11yo half brother saw it and yelled at her to come down! She looked at me and cried( I don’t yell at kids , I use face expressions: serious face and mad face and happy face and so on). I told her brother to stop yelling because she doesn’t like it. How are kids going to know if you are serious without yelling he said ?. It’s probably how things go to where her brother lives longer of time (with his mom). Yes still many grown ups do/believe it! Hint : that’s how I grew up by the way, yelling constantly.
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@Bibylava. The child very likely has hyperacusis - intolerance to loud noise. It's a real condition. Children with this disorder should not be yelled at. They quite literally cannot tolerate it. And don't take them to see fireworks, either.
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Ok, so if your kids are misbehaving, the solution is to wait until they stop, then tell them how great they are. How does anyone get their essays and math homework done?
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@Andrew
My youngest has just started high school. He has pretty severe ADHD, so I talked with him about how good grades are important (he wants to be at a particular high school for a program there and they require good grades) and that homework is needed for good grades.
When he gets home I tell him he has half an hour to decompress from school and to set a timer. When the timer goes off (you remembered, great!), I remind him to do his homework. He tells me when it's done (good job!) and I ask if he's put it in his backpack (Yay!)(with three ADHD kids the mantra is: homework isn't done until it's in the backpack). Once it's in the backpack he can go do fun things (You earned your fun kiddo!).
I'd expect a neurotypical kid could manage with a little less handholding, but the constant small praises work.
Now if you're having trouble even starting homework with your kid, sit down and do it with them. There is no stronger motivator for a kid than time with their parent. Your role is to talk about the homework and ask the kid how to do it and give them feedback about their process. For math in particular, creating similar problems and working them out will help the kid figure out how to do the homework. With essays in particular, help them find their topic and with the outline, then proofread it for them. It's really hard to proofread your own work.
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@Andrew
Do you really think that is what the author is saying?
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I come from a family that yells about everything and I fully intend to yell about everything when I have kids. This article is solipsistic nonsense. There are more values in the world than efficiency and power. There’s also expressiveness, emotional release, living vividly, living with high stakes of principle and expectation, living larger than the controlling little boxes one is supposed to occupy in “polite society”. To say “yelling means x” as though what goes into growing into the human experience is that simple reveals such a shrivelled notion of what that human experience can contain. You go ahead and not yell. Leave me alone.
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@Mike Well Said.
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I don’t really remember much yelling in my house. But my mother had a sharp knife for a tongue. And all of us, Dad included, hid from it. It is words that matter most I think. Choose them carefully.
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The problem with our current indifferent population is that messages are not communicated effectively. Yelling all the time is ineffective. But silence all the time is ineffective as well. Once in a while, yelling it's the only way to get the message across that what you're saying is important. This situation applies to teachers as well. I've noticed it's the teachers that don't care the ones that never raise their voice. When a teacher or a parent raise their voice, it communicates passion. Those who don't care at all, are not passionate about their parenting or their teaching. And a good whack in time, saves a lot of problems in the future. Nothing communicates a message as efficiently as pain. You don't want to lose your hand to fire, heat will instantly cause pain to force you to retrieve it from permanent damage. What is ineffective is to yell or spank constantly. Once someone gets used to this habit, indifference sets in.
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Why would you yell at someone you love? As a child, I used to ask myself that question followed by this question: "Does Dad love me?" When my father yelled at me and my brothers, we obeyed because we feared him and we respected him. I recall realizing at age 12 that obedience is one thing and love is something else. How can a child love a parent who yells and spanks? A child can still seek that parent's approval but love is fragile and must be earned. So... when I was a parent, I never yelled unless safety was an issue. I spanked my sons only once and that was to teach them not to run into the road which was close to our front door. I confess I treated them as if they were grandchildren whom I was privileged to know and to love. I told them their jobs were to be good students and not to worry about housekeeping chores on weekdays. I micro managed the school stuff, but I never micro managed them by using chore charts or asking them to clean their rooms. As it turned out, they cleaned their rooms anyway because it helped them to be better students. They are in their 30s now, all grown up and parents themselves. People ask me, "What did you do to make your sons such nurturing fathers and devoted husbands?" I don't really know except that as an older mother, I told them I loved them every day, and I thanked them often just for being themselves. At night I would whisper to each of them, "You are the most wonderful boy in the world. I love you."
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I can't get over the absurdity of your rhetorical question "how can a child love a parent who yells and spanks?" As mentioned in the article, in the 60s, 94% of parents spanked. I guess according to you that generation of children didn't love their parents?
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@Margareta You do whatever is neccessary because you love THEM More than you love YOURSELF. Sounds like your kids were just Good Kids to Start with, so not much Negativity was Called For. And Yes, Absolutely, Show and Tell them you Love them, even if they ARE little heathens,lol.
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@Margareta
Your reply is the first to refer to love. How many of us felt loved ? Most will say they did because the alternative is too horrendous to acknowledge so we repress that. How important is love? Read this book written in the 70"s.
https://www.kirkusreviews.com/book-reviews/arthur-janov-3/the-feeling-ch...
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Albert Ellis & Rational Emotive Behavior Therapy started with the Activating Event, Belief, and Consequences in the 1950’s
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The article is interesting yet fails to consider different ethnic cultures.
My Dad — who was Italian—yelled at me daily
He yelled because he cared... I never felt it was offensive or demeaning...
He cared... once I asked him not to
yell... Dad’s response: “Great idea... yet you don’t respond unless I yell”
I briefly considered his response... Dad was right.
I miss my Dad...
Ron
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My father yelled all the time
I promised never to yell all the time
So, I stare!
6
Nothing a child does deserves to have their parent yell at them.
And then there's reality.
The pressures of family life in 2018 are enormous and a lot of parents are stressed out, frustrated and overwhelmed. There are lots of opportunities every day to get mad at your kids.
The expectations that parents have for themselves and their kids are also very high given today's definition of "success" and how everything is posted on social media.
These expectations can be fueled by fear based on feeling and thoughts that parents are not good enough at anything they do -- especially as it relates to their children.
When parents feel like their authority is being threatened , e.g. their kid doesn't put their shoes away, one of the examples in this article, at some along the continuum of handling the child's resistance, the parents' primal brain overloads on fear and fight or flight happens. Mad turns to yelling.
These family conflicts are opportunities for families to learn how to have difficult conversations that create resolution and closeness.
It is up to parents to understand their own primal brain reactions and learn how to model handling being mad in healthy ways.
www.planCnow.com
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@Joanne Dougan, M.Ed. "The pressures of family life in 2018 are enormous." No date needed. Good comments.
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@Joanne Dougan, M.Ed. It also Does WONDERS if you will merely take a few minutes OUT of your Busy Schedule, and EXPLAIN to kids WHY you're Aggravated, angry, sad, whatever. They're NOT STUPID. They only ACT that way a lot, mostly to try to escape punishment. This can lead to some VERY Helpful discussions on Human Behavior in General, which things they DESPERATELY NEED to Know About. You do a kid ZERO Favors when you Hide Reality from them. Besides, if you know WHY someone did or said something Hurtful, it takes 90 percent of the Sting out of it. How can they Understand, if we don't TELL them, EXPLAIN to them? Besides all THAT, it helps them to see that Mom and Dad are People, Just Like Them. Not your Job to be their Best Friend, your Job is to be their PARENT. If you want them to have a Brain and USE it, you best Teach them YOURSELF, because they sure won't learn any Good in Public School.
2
Never get truly mad at those whom you treasure. You will lose them if you do.
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No, sorry. Getting mad, even at people you ostensibly treasure, is not only normal but healthy.
I love my parents. Sometimes they annoy me but that’s the way it goes. Never allowing myself to be mad at them would be unhealthy. It passes, like any negative emotion. Trust me, my parents never hid when they were upset with me or my behavior when I was a kid and I was told about it and yes, sometimes they yelled. Did I think that they were weak, out of control parents who didn’t love me? No, I thought they were upset and that I was definitely in the wrong and I’d better fix my behavior. I never once thought they didn’t love me, and I never once lacked respect for them.
Honestly, yelling at your kids doesn’t break them. There’s a big difference between yelling at your kid because he/she is doing something wrong or simply being an obnoxious pain in the butt and viciously humiliating your child via verbal abuse, and most competent parents know that.
4
No one believed me until I documented for 3 months and definitively proved that no one was paying any attention to what I said or asked until I was yelling.
They were shocked when they saw the proof that they routinely ignored the first, second, third, and fourth pleasant, non-yelling, calm, friendly requests.
They were shocked to see that after many requests over hours or even days that when I finally raised my voice they then responded to me by claiming that the only reason they didn’t fulfill the request, obligation, chore, favor, was because I was yelling.
Well, they were shocked to see themselves doing this and to see the proof but there it was.
And then things changed. My yelling stopped because they started listening and responding.
And as they were learning to change behavior which was actually (even if not intentionally) cruel and frustrating, I changed my reminders as well. I would say:
“This is my second time asking...”
“This is my third time saying this...”
“The is my fourth time and the volume will soon be going up..”
Things are so much better now.
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@P Right? These articles drive me nuts. Oh, really? I should try positive interactions instead of yelling? Do you not realize that I've been DOING THAT? Also, guess what... when I yell, my kids actually do the thing I've been kindly and positively reaffirming-ly asking them to do for twenty minutes. So then I get that reinforcement.
Do I like yelling? Of course not. Do I really think I'm ruining my kids? No. They're fine. We'll all get through this.
Also, I'm no expert and no article has told me to do this, but I do think it's important in calmer moments to talk with my kids about intense moments we've experienced. I tell them that I'm not proud I yelled. I also tell them I was angry and frustrated that they weren't listening to me. And I ask them for their feedback and ideas for how we can make these situations work better.
It's not my job to shield them from unpleasant human interactions, which they will encounter everywhere and throughout their lives; it's my job to help them navigate them.
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@Sunshine YES. You're doing Fine. Ignore the milksops. Do what Works at YOUR House.
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@P EXCELLENT Work! Sometimes we have to be Smarter than them, lol. Also, I find Earbuds to be a Problem. I CAN Yell AROUND them, but I don't like it. I feel like an idiot waving my arms for attention...
1
I have never, ever yelled at my kids, and never will.
14
I know a person who claimed to never have yelled. Instead, this person tortured the kids and spouse with the silent treatment. The lovely result was divorce and estranged children.
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@aa
I used to be so full of admiration for parents like that, and I'm sure some of them really are marvelous (and are also lucky to be blessed with kids who don't do crazy things out of a spirit of joyful experimentation, and who listen when their parents speak to them seriously). That was until I met my husband, who has been psychologically damaged beyond repair (along with his siblings) by parents who absolutely never yelled, but rather, who expected their children to be quiet and unnoticed out of respect for their "great scientist" father who liked to work at home, and brought them up in a myth of admiration for their two heroic parents which ended up depriving them of any ambition or sense of self worth. As a grandmother, I see now exactly how my mother-in-law did this. She's delightful with babies and toddlers, giving them all the loving attention they need, but as they get older, all their triumphs and accomplishments are ignored while any problems they may have are discussed at length in quiet, serious tones under the assumption that the problem stems from something wrong with the child.
I'm certainly not saying that all non-yelling parents are like this. But my mother, who was Italian and yelled all the time, also put her children at the absolute center of the world and I actually think that matters far more.
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@Leila Schneps Exactly RIGHT. It also Teaches that you CAN be Mad at someone but still love them, too. Which is How It SHOULD Be, because it's True.
What is really great as a parent these days is: you can take their phone. My teenagers behave like lambs because they know if not I’ll take the phone.
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@Sherrod Shiveley Our son goes crazy when we try to take his phone. He breaks glass all over the house and violently assaults his little brother. We've had to call the sheriff to come restrain him.
Not a lamb at all.
4
@Sherrod Shiveley. Even better - don't take the phone, just suspend their phone service until their behavior changes. It's simple, easy and doesn't cost a dime. You can do it online. Why bother going through the hassles of finding and taking their phone? Let them hold it and ponder how wonderful it would be if only the parent reactivated their service. Cellphones are like oxygen to teens - they need it to stay engaged with their peers. Suspend their service when they misbehave. It works like a charm.
4
@keith You have a very serious problem on your hands. Have you contacted social services through the school yet?
5
Five loud, energetic, rambunctious kids, four with ADHD and two have oppositional defiance order as well. All these techniques are lovely when you have one, maybe two neurotypical children: not realistic for children who do not fit that mold.
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@kidsndog
Interesting, I found these techniques particularly important in dealing with my ODD kid; that one didn't respond to any negative consequences at all only praise and goals worked. And all mine had ADHD as well; makes for an interesting household!
4
@kidsndog By saying that these techniques are 'not realistic' are you implying that they aren't effective? Can you suggest techniques that you have found effective?
That's the bottom line. If you've found something that's more effective with the kids or puts less strain on you, that should reasonably be considered.
The techniques described in the article, basically, worked for me. Focus on positive feedback, explanations, and muted punishment yielded, a happy, productive, and honest daughter.
But they may not work for everyone. I would like to see differing styles studied.
1
@kidsndog
Actually, positive reinforcement is particularly effective with ADHD. (The type of immediate positive praise described in the article, not waiting to build up points to trade in for a reward, which likely requires too much impulse control and delay of gratification.)
The impulsivity domain of many ADHD kids can make them react explosively to consequences or being yelled at, further escalating an already bad situation. Many can do better with a different approach such as this.
8
the author is right on target. I have worked with thousands of parents and it is simply easier and takes less time to yell. Parents have lost track of what values they want to teach and how a child contributes to a family. Less than 25% of children have any chores and they often see their mothers, in particular, as their servants. Parents are angry at themselves for the child they created. I typically hear parents lament about how busy they are as if the child is way down the list. Teaching a child is time intensive. I talk about this on my Facebook page @raisedaughterswithgrit.
15
Helpful for parents to tell the child what they want the child to do. This takes practice.
That is, instead of a negative statement, telling (or yelling) what the child isn’t supposed to do, tell the child the behavior you expect and want. This doesn’t eliminate nagging. But, limits a slide into negativity for both parent and child. Parent who uses the least words instructing their child WINS.
17
Appreciation is even better than praise most of the time. Effusive praise can lead to the child to believe that praise is phony. But thank you for doing "that" works very well. That said, praise is always better than punishment. Time out also works when a child is out of control, not as punishment but as an aid to the child improving his or her behavior. Parents an also take a time out before yelling. Keeping things calm always help.
31
This really does work very well. However, it is a very resource-intensive method of behavior correction. It's hard to do for everything you need to correct in a single day, especially with a high-energy young kid. It probably gets easier to use this method as they get older.
10
@Gene No, actually it gets easier when they get older when you have used the technique!
This ABC method is really just Alfred Adler's theory of natural and logical consequences. One should always tell a child what is expected of him, and what the consequence will be if that does not happen (if you don't behave at the store, we will have to leave). Many parents of young children yell rather than getting up and stopping the behavior (don't pull on the lamp cord - instead removing the toddler from the lamp and cord while telling them this is not acceptable). It's amazing what happens when mom actually moves, instead of just sits there and asks and then yells.
Confiscating things that are not in their proper place works quite well, too. Removing those shoes and watching a child search for them futilely works quite well.
I'm very tired of hearing how over-worked and tired mothers are today. What on earth do they think mothers were when they carried heavy baskets of wet laundry up a flight of steps and hung them on a line in the back yard? When they washed dishes after every meal, and cooked every meal, including a lunch that was either carried to school or come home to eat at lunch break? When they spent an entire day each week, just ironing all the clothes they had washed/dried the day before? When they walked to the grocery store, pulling a cart? My mother was not sitting around popping bonbon while a maid did all these things!
5
@India Not to dispute that mothers have always been tired and busy but
1) It is more likely they had extended family nearby to help
2) Older kids were put in charge of younger siblings
3) Corporal punishment and yelling were pretty much par for the course if I go by my grandmother's parenting methods
1
ok....I'm not a "yeller," but I'm still left wondering what if they DON'T put the shoes away when they come home? The author outlines only what to do in the event that the unwanted action or behavior is modified. What does one do in the more likely scenario that it is not?
221
What I've read in a couple very helpful parenting books (and a dog training book!) is that you pretty much put life on hold until the desired action is completed. This in itself, of course, only works when you have time on your hands, which is why you first start doing it at a time when you're not pressed to rush. And you rephrase. Kids want to please, so he might oblige if you say "show me how well you can do it, I know you can!" If he still doesn't, then he doesn't get to proceed with the next part of the day until he complies. Can't go and play, can't eat dinner, etc. until he puts his shoes away. There will probably be protests at first, but keep your cool. Sooner or later he will realize that it's a lot easier to just get this one quick thing over with and move on. It works best if at first there's a fun thing waiting lined up next as incentive. Like, we can't leave for the park until you've put your home slippers away. And you stand by your word, and maybe you don't go to the park if it comes to it.
That's what the dog book said, too. When the dog pulls the leash, you stop walking. You resume only after he stops pulling. He wants to walk, so he has incentive to stop pulling. No punishment or reward, you just stop and wait, and wait them out until they see it's better to just do it and keep going. Again, takes time, patience and consistency, but if planned well, it works. The best parenting strategies all require planning, patience and consistency, but they do work.
131
A parent has to figure out the function of the behavior they want to change and based on that, decide how to intervene. This isn't as complicated as it sounds. Some behaviors are attention seeking, while others could be used to either avoid or obtain something and some behaviors are for sensory stimulation. We also need to have age appropriate, consistent, and clear expectations and consequences. Empty threats are a quick path to failure; follow through is key. It's not always easy to take the time to think all this through in the moment, and there's no such thing as a perfect parent, but it definitely makes day to day life much more pleasant for the whole family.
9
I find if I pretend that I don’t remember how to do something or where it goes and ask my son if he remembers, he sees it as a game.l where he can show or teach me. We end up playing this “game” around shoes a lot actually. And blocks. And books. And and and. He’s 2, so that works well for us.
21