@lechrist,
I’m questioning some of your book recommendations if you’re having to ask some of these questions. Perhaps a caveat may be in order? Your books might be interesting but they seem to be leaving out some very basic, but very key details about vaccines.
1. You ask why people who are vaccinated should worry about those that aren’t. Three reasons:
(1) nothing is 100% all the time (pathogens evolve, your own immune system and status changes);
(2) herd immunity, part 1 = redundant protection for you for those aforementioned <100% moments;
(3) herd immunity, part 2 = protection for your loved ones who can’t get vaccinated or who’s vaccinations aren’t as effective for various reasons (see 1)
2. You talk about shedding, which surprises and puzzles me. Yes, some vaccines are still made with attenuated live pathogens, but they are the small minority these days. Most are made with dead organisms or with the fractions of pathogenic material necessary to confer immunity. The likelihood of being vaccinated with a live pathogen, that will then be shed, and then cause disease in someone else, is really small (and easily manage since shedding is transient). Especially compared to the much higher likelihood of actually catching the disease in your unvaccinated state and passing it on. Oh, and btw, the pertussis vaccine is, and has been, made with dead bacteria for generations. Whooping cough is on the rise because people aren’t vaccinated (or boosted), not because they are.
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What type of immunity acquires the baby through breastfeeding? and is it sufficient for the baby to be well-defended?
No! It’s a good start against more common germs like the common colds or other ubiquitous bugs, but not effective at all against the really scary stuff like measles, pertussis, rubella, mumps, flu, polio, etc...
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Before we even get to vaccines perhaps we should ask why the USA is so unhealthy. Why are there 20 to 30 countries healthier than we are. Why are we the world leader in Obesity. Why does the NYTimes never report on this?
After that perhaps we need to look at the mistakes the FDA has made in the past. Can we really trust them? How much damage did they do by taking all the fat out of foods? Why do they refuse to separate cane sugar and HFCS? When 38 countries ban potassium bromate we allow it. We put detergents in Ice cream and rubber in bread.
Sorry but it is all profits over everything.
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It is truly bizarre that well educated, knowledgeable individuals believe vaccines are a danger, and thus are willing to endanger all of us. Would they oppose the refrigeration of food to prevent spoilage and the development of disease organisms because there is a fractional chance that some child might lock him/herself in a discarded refrig and suffocate? Do they oppose the licensing of doctors because medical errors lead to the death of from 100 to 200 thousand individuals in the U.S. each year? There are solutions to all of these other "dangers", but rather than making sure vaccinations are safe these idiots oppose all vaccines period even though that puts everyone else at risk.
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@LawyerTom1 I don't know any parent whose child had a severe reaction who isn't vaccine leary. All of them were provaccine before. Now, because they dare to question, they are loonies. It could be their children are much like the immune compromised kids that need to be protected, but that discovery hasn't been made yet.(MANY scientists think Autism may be immune related.) Of this crowd, none oppose all vaccines. They just want to know why, and if it can be avoided.
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@LawyerTom1 Name-calling, red herrings, ad hominem, false cause, post hoc, hasty generalization, straw man attacks are all Logical Fallacy arguments or errors in reasoning which invalidate everything you have written.
Again, if you have your protective vaccines, why exactly are you "in danger" as you put it?
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@rbw would you please tell me where to find the list of “many scientists “ who believe autism is immune related. Not being snarky just trying to get facts.
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If you are interested in giving vaccines to your children and have read the vaccine inserts (most MDs are only given the schedule and have no idea what is actually in the vaccines) and therefore can give informed consent, a wonderful book is Dr. Paul Thomas "The Vaccine-Friendly Plan."
If you wish to take your knowledge further, then read Neal Z. Miller's "Review of Critical Vaccine Studies: 400 important scientific papers summarized for parents and researchers."
And if you are interested in the history of vaccines: Dr. Suzanne Humphries' "Dissolving Illusions" is excellent.
Since good health precedes everything else in life, researching and making your own choices may be the best way to go.
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For all of those who support vaccines: if vaccines protect you and your loved ones from getting sick, then why on earth are you afraid of those who do not do vaccines?
Does this make any sense?
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Actually when you vaccinate yours are a risk to hers. You cannot spread something you dont have. When you vaccinate you are giving yourself the disease. Live virus vaccines have potential shedding. Please look at both sides of the issues or maybe talk to your sister as to why hers arent vaccinated. Unvaccinated pose no more risk to your child than a vaccinated one. Also flu shot and dtap have never been tested on pregnant women. They are voluntarily subscribed to a registry and then there is only studies done after baby has born, but no data has been produced on the miscarriage rate within 10 days after vaccine administration.
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@Kay You need to check some legitimate sources. Pregnant women SHOULD get the flu vaccine! The rest of your post is even less well founded.
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@DMV7
Please learn about vaccine shedding of the illness, exposing and making other vulnerable persons sick. This is how whooping cough became a real problem across the US. It happened to me and my lungs have not recovered years later. Vaccines are not a magic bullet: you get a shot and presto, no illness. Read Dr. Suzanne Humphries book: "Dissolving Illusion" and learn the history.
This would also be a good time to mention that breastfeeding also confers protective antibodies on your new baby, helping to prevent illness from infectious disease early on.
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We did have this problem for a few months when I was trying to get my head around differences between the Australian schedule and advice from the CDC. The CDC advice indicated that my daughter should get a particular vaccine separately. This put us in a tricky situation around other kids for a few months and we also had financial penalties for not complying with the Australian schedule. I’m still not sure what the fuss was about because most adults never get their 10 year boosters.
Pregnant women should get the flu shot. As mentioned in the article, infants can't get the flu shot until 6m. However, when mom gets a flu shot, the antibodies cross the placenta and protects the baby.
https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/pregnancy-week-by-week/expe...
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@Mimi Pregnant women should never be given something that has not been tested for safety. The FDA vaccine insert under pregnancy clearly states, the flu vaccine has not been tested for safety and mutagenic effects. The multi-dose flu vaccine also contains Thimerosal ( mercury) and is the least effective.
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The response doesn't actually address the question. How long will it be until my new baby will be safe around your unvaccinated children?
Yes, we know vaccines take time to have an effect. But how long? It seems like the question-asker would like to know how long it is her family actually should stay away from her family member's family, so she can set her limits. For example, should she say, "Sorry, Sarah. Baby and I can't come over until he is 2 years old because that's how long it takes for MMR to work." She is looking for rational evidence that she can verbalize for her position. Whether this creates more conflict or a grounds for negotiation is disputable.
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@C.B. ~Dr. Paul Thomas' book on vaccine schedules should be of great help to you.
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Vaccination is indeed important, and everyone should vaccinate to protect those with challenged immune systems. If you breastfeed your child, your own immune system will also protect your child through the antibodies he or she receives in breast milk.
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We declined HEP B, rotavirus but did other vaccines starting from 8 weeks. No MMR before 3 yrs old (especially if you're African American) after blood-brain barrier closes.
Also, this soon to be mom needs to know that even vaccinated children can get diseases and in some instances shed those for month or so afterwards - MMR for example.
And don't expect your child to be disease proof the day of vaccination - takes weeks for the body to build immunity.
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@MM
When your doctor tells you that your baby is fully immunized then you might be comfortable exposing it to a child who is not. Your sister might be angry with you but she has made the choice for her children not yours. Their might be other nonimmunized children out there but you don't know it.
So protect your own as best you can. Her children can be carriers before any symptoms are present.
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@MM
For worried parents reading the above, you might think that MM doesn't sound like a nutcase anti-vaxxer. They did vaccinate their children, after all! So you might be worried reading all of this stuff about the blood brain barrier.
Don't worry. It is the latest fad in complete and utter horse hockey peddled by anti-vaxxers. "Mercury," "leaky gut," and "immune system overload" have gone out of style, and "blood brain barrier" is the hot new reason to risk deadly illnesses.
It is a froot loops conspiracy theory, and not something you need to be worrying over. If you passed high school biology, you know that the blood brain barrier forms in utero, yes in African American babies too.
There is an excellent, readable, and thorough summary here: https://vaxopedia.org/2018/03/08/vaccines-and-the-blood-brain-barrier/
You can also talk to your family doctor about your concerns.
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Um... the blood-brain barrier doesn’t “close”. It doesn’t “open” for that matter either. It just is.
The blood-brain barrier is formed when the brain is formed and that’s about it.
Geez - I don’t even know where to begin to dig out the small nugget of reality that’s been cooped for this particular nonsense. An “open” BBB would be akin to not having a skull and exposing your brain to all the elements. Oh, wait, that does happen! It’s called anencephaly and it’s a death sentence.
I have to admit, this one is new, at least to me. I guess I shouldn’t be surprised that the anti-vaxxers have to keep coming up with new and ever more fantastical stories to keep themselves steadfast in the face of actual facts and science.
But in all seriousness, measles and rubella are really dangerous, even deadly, especially for two year olds in day care or in close contact with other kids. They’re also highly contagious so even hanging out with kids that have been vaccinated can be dangerous because they can be carriers. Mumps, particularly for boys, can have life-long consequence. Rotavirus is less scary but miserable. I can almost guarantee a good bout of it will have you reconsidering. Why no skip the misery? As for Hep B, I guess that can wait until he or she is a teenager, but you’d better hope he or she doesn’t need a blood infusion before then because it takes a long time to gain immunity to that one. You won’t be able change your mind at the last minute.
The vaccination of children is essential, provided they are not involved by Inherited Real Risks of degenerative diseases. In these cases, it is a duty to eliminate them before vaccination with Reconstructing Mitochondrial Quantum Therapy, to be administered also to their mothers, which are positive in 100% of cases.
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Whether or not a vaccine actually prevents the disease it was designed for, all vaccines provide some degree of protection. Even if you get the disease that the vaccine was designed to prevent, you still benefit from a less severe case and more likely to survive it with fewer side effects and a shorter duration.
Vaccines are one of the modern marvels of scientific research.
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Agreed. I was vaccinated against measles as a child but still got them as a kid growing up in Europe. I was really miserable for about two weeks but things would have been worse, had I not been vaccinated.
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@Emergence Vaccines have been around for hundreds of years.
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