Now for an actual “axis of evil”; Saudi Arabia, the United States of America, and Israel. This team holds the record for the numbers of innocent civilians killed and maimed for life.
6
How is this any different from our actions all over the Middle East from the fifties onward, overthrowing governments, starting wars changing regimes by force and sanctions resulting in millions dead and scorched earth policies to benefit big oil, the Royal Saudis and of course Israel. BTW doesn’t the billions in arms annually given to Israel count and why does Netanyahu and the Likud Party get a pass, what did Kushner get turned down again for a loan so we now go after the Saudis.
7
For God's sake stop calling it "Military Aid"; America is making money, profits, lolly; it sells these thongs to Soddy Arabia at inflated prices. For each Yemeni death, America probably earned a million dollars.
.
Thus, if anything it is Aid to the super rich of America by the Soddy family; We need a Lord Bertrand Russell to try America for Crimes Against Humanity.
5
@Chaudri the peacenik
I am sorry for making an embarrassing typo. America is probably also selling THONGS to the Soddys; but what I wanted to say was "it sell these THINGS (meaning militar ausrustung) to Soddy Arabia"
1
NO MORE SUPPORT FOR THIS HORROR, THIS COUNTRY HAS ENOUGH BLOOD ON ITS HANDS. SAUDIS AND USA ARE WAR CRIMINALS.
5
Why are US bombs killing civilians in Yemen? Because that's what they are supposed to do. They have been meticulously engineered and manufactured to kill people and destroy property, and if there are people in that property, oh well, they should have known better.
War is about killing people. That's the point. It has long been American policy to enable warfare around the war, whether by its own hand or by pulling the strings of others'. The intensity of it waxes and wanes but the political culture of America is pro-war.
In the Middle East lives are strategically taken in the pursuit of a ready supply of oil. That's not the only reason - there is Israel - but it is a devil's bargain. War is good for business. Period.
4
Finally, NYTimes.
What took you so long to cover this atrocity?
You mentioned it's been going on for THREE YEARS.
What took you so long?
9
the Saudi-led coalition is doing in yemen what the russians and syrian government did in syria. if it worked in syria why not in yemen. of course because the US is involved the Saudi-led coalition cant be quite as indiscriminate in its bombing as the russians and syrians were. they are less likely to succeed.
1
The editorial board is being unfair. It is concerned about children who are being killed by American armament and with American assistance.
But who cares about children? Especially brown children. Especially Muslim children. We have to support our arms dealers and Trump supporters in the middle east.
Save your sympathy for a real American: Paul Manafort. He is a great American who defrauded the United States and failed to pay his taxes and defrauded banks. Most importantly, he has stood with the fascist in chief and kept silent about his crimes.
4
Why are US bombs killing civilians in Yemen? Because the Times favorite Middle East thug, Mohammed bin Salman, (affectionately referred to as "MBS" in Times reports) has been given free rein by the Trump administration to commit these atrocities. This makes the US complicit in war crimes. Add this one to the list of those war crimes the US has come to live with - no sleep lost here.
6
Our Grand and Glorious Con man continues to enrich his Mar-A-Largo fat cat arms merchants, selling arms to ruthless, ugly Saudis. A disgrace we throw our technology at poor defenseless women and children.
The King smirks.
1
The rebels in Yemen, like Hamas in Gaza, place civilians in front of their weapons. For rebels, citizens and their lives mean nothing. I'm wondering why the NYTimes doesn't point this out. I agree that Saudi really doesn't care and will go after the rebels at all costs, but to give the rebels no responsibility is false reporting, at best.
@MaThis is false. Many of the strikes, like the one on the school bus, had no possible military rationalization and one wonders why you would bother pretending it did. Others have been on marketplaces, medical centers and fleeing civilians.
8
Finally the NYT looks into this. Thank you so much for finally bringing this to the forefront.
And yes, those are our bombs.
Our last president, Barak Obama, became the largest weapons dealer in the history of mankind when he sold a record sale of weapons to Saudi Arabia.
Those are the weapons the Saudi’s have been using in Yemem and Sudan. The school bus last week? Yes that was our bombs too.
Then when the UN wanted to charge the Saudi’s for crimes against mankind for their actions there, the US vetoed that resolution and the Saudi’s have not been charged. It was once more Barak Obama who did this.
Yet no one seems interested on bringing this up.
It’s about time this was looked for what it is, a major crime against mankind, and our expresident provided the weapons
4
Ultimately, this war is happening with US support. No way around that.
3
I am outraged we are participating by supplying arms to a real genocide of the people of Yemen. The Saudis have used oil as a threat for too long against us. Obama did stand up to them, but of course Trump cant and wouldn’t. No matter what, our congress should forbid any US activity or arms sales to the Saudis or anyone for this purpose. The blood is on our hands we must stop. Cant we learn from the past?
3
As I have repeatedly stated, we are the greatest force for violence and evil in the world today. We must somehow be stopped. The American population doesn't have a clue. We have irreversibly harmed the Middle East. We will pay dearly.
Justice prevails. It just takes a while.
5
MIC rules America. Taxpayers foot the bill and are to blame. Their share: 100%.
3
The Yemen civil war is a proxy war with Iran. Like with Syria, it will end only when one side is utterly defeated, as neither shows any interest in negotiating.
1
It's beyond horrifying to think of all the unnecessary misery Trump & Co & Associates have approved, as a matter of policy, around the world, and these are still early days in our ever down spiralling Trump nightmare. What will come next none outside of Trump's inner circle can possibly know. But, in view of reporting like this on the ongoing unmitigated tragedy of Yemen, neither can anyone say they weren't warned.
2
August 29, 2018
Where is the Pentagon Papers for this current warring drama in Arabia authorized by the current President Trump and his war council for the chaos in the Middle East. Bombs are as much as having to unload and drop here and wherever and for all sorts of doing business in the course of ineptitude to negotiate transparently, indeed.
jja
1
Saudi Arabia has lots of oil and can drill it cheaply. What would we do for an ample supply of plentiful oil?
@tennvol30736: Frack.
Because we are dropping them........
2
Why were we involved in this in the first place? I appreciate that the Obama administration did decide to cut off sales, but why subsidize this before that? Is it possible that we all need to take more seriously how complex and difficult public policy problems are - and prioritize compassion by putting in the time and effort necessary to figure out in honest practical terms how to deal with them, without callous destructiveness, even if that means we have to acknowledge that the partisanship, demagoguery, tribalism, and that form of venality that is entangled with ego-involved contempt for other people that dominate our politics are unaffordable? These attitudes make us incompetent to solve difficult public policy problems, they serve as excuses to ruin people's lives, they protect corruption, and they result in our not getting around to untangling problems from hell. This doesn't really impact well-off people directly, while other people , who are actually decent, even if maligned, get slaughtered. Why can't we shake off the callousness, the bigotry, the reductionist, cynical ideology, the contempt for each other, and choose to restore the respect for even the human rights, human dignity and civil liberties of those people that we dislike that not only protects everyone's human rights and human dignity but fosters a more intelligent, more free, more thoughtful and honest public debate that facilitates rather than trips up solving difficult problems - without harm.
3
Since 9/11, we've committed countless atrocities in the name of fighting terrorism. And now to top it off, we're actively supporting Saudi Arabia (the very backward country that actually birthed most of the 9/11 terrorists) in its nonstop carpet bombing campaign against the impoverished nation of Yemen. I guess there's no limit or end to our crimes against humanity.
5
@Zareen
No limit. We are very adept at hiding it.
3
Why? Bomb sales, of course. Money. Got it?
2
"After that, then-President Barack Obama banned the sale of precision-guided military technology to Saudi Arabia. The ban was overturned by the Trump administration in March 2017."
That's right, it's all the liberals' and democrats' and Obama's fault.
Depravity, thy name is GOP. Vote 2018.
1
@Positively
Stop kidding yourself. Trump is worse, but the Obama administration never stopped helping with refueling operations. They cut off the weapons sales because of the public relations disaster of the funeral bombing, but they needn’t have bothered, given how little attention within the US the atrocity received.
3
Why has the NY Times and other MSM waited until now to report the US backed Saudi led bombing of the starving people of Yemen? It has been going on for at least three years and it is only now with a UN investigation that the NY Times has finally reported on this shameful atrocity in our name and with our tax dollars. I really would like to know the reasoning behind this oversight.
6
I cannot understand why so many progressives protest so loudly about the American government's non-violent treatment of illegal immigrants, and yet are so silent about American responsibility for the death and maiming of innocent people in Yemen and other countries in connection with wrong-headed wars and other military operations. I would like to see more editorials and commentaries like this one.
4
Amazing how the Editorial Board tried to place the blame on the Saudis for what the rebels actually inflicted by positioning the statement within the blame Saudi portion. Specifically: "Countless more civilians have been killed by bombs at markets, weddings, funerals — more than 6,500 by the official count, but certainly many, many more. "
The bombs are not from the Saudis.
The N.Y. Times Editorial Board asks us today "Why Are U.S. Bombs Killing Civilians In Yemen" ?
From our promising start for peace in 1787 (Philadelphia), the United States has become the world's largest manufacturer of military weapons,gunboats and bombers. All for the purpose of killing one another. That year in Philadelphia,we became the "Home Of The Free" to provide the weapons of war that enable nations to drop bombs on each other. Because of this, i'm looking for a house to buy-in CANADA.
4
A very shortsighted strategy: sell weapons to a country that has sponsored ISIS (wikileaks, Podesta emails), because it narrows our trade gap against outgoing petrodollars, and expect rational actions.
There is no end game. The House of Saud is despised by its own people. When it falls, it will be bloody, and all the weapons and whatever is left of the arms, will be in the hands of ISIS (who will eat its parents).
2
These are crimes against humanity. Thank you for bringing this to the fore in the midst of so much MSM noise.
1
Did he not do a multi-billion dollar deal with his good friends the Saudis for more weapons & planes to drop bombs? How much did they pay to trump/kushner for this privilege? trump is just as guilty as the saudis in the death of these Yemeni citizens. Really, bombing children?
3
I am unable to understand these "great powers" games powerful countries have against each other in small and/or "strategic" countries around the planet that cannot defend themselves against the big powers. As soon as one of them gets a nuke, we play nice reluctantly.
The only people who generate these strategic interests are the very people, mostly arm chair generals and the industry. They benefit from a world in continuous conflict and bloodshed, or wars without end. We'll bankrupt ourselves doing it but the show must go on.
The main takeaway here is, in our case, we keep making new enemies that give our "defense" or should I say "offense" industry more business to make more lethal arms and ammo to sell to others or use on our own, which makes more enemies, which...on and on ad nauseum.
What is the point in getting between a Sunni Shia fight, there are no winners. Especially when the people who control both sides are corrupt, lining their pockets while people starve.
How about we just pack up and leave the entire area? Whoever controls the oils still want to live off it, they will sell it to anyone.
Also, in case some readers are unaware: while this US-supported Saudi coalition continues to kill civilians in Yemen with air-strikes, those who are trying to escape have to cross the US off their list of potential places of refuge due to the Supreme Court's recent decision to uphold the travel ban.
Let that sink in for a second... the country formerly thought of as 'the land of liberty' is handing over weapons for another country to commit war crimes... officially ignores it while results of mass murder are reported... and also ensures that it is near impossible for those trying to escape this violence to have the US as a place of refuge.
To have policies that not just contribute to creating a humanitarian crisis, but are actually anti-humanitarian (which is what a slammed shut door seems to me) is pretty morally bankrupt.
3
I'm old enough to remember when Britain, France (for a bit), Iran, Jordan, and Saudi Arabia, with Israeli covert air-drop support to British mercs, were fighting against Egypt's Nasser, with Russian and Chinese support, during the royalist war in Yemen. America was diplomatically supporting Nasser, of course, because of oil. Then, though, most of the casualties were Egyptian ground troops, except for the civilian deaths caused by Nasser's use of gas.
How the big players still do enjoy proxy wars on little countries' soil. Bigger bombs, no large troop concentrations, no uniforms, guerrilla fighting mainly in towns and cities; all ripe for civilian murder. It's got to be no great mystery any longer how munitions will be used after 20 years of experience dropping them in civilian neighborhoods.
And we wonder why we have enemies?
Since Lawrence, no one has fully understood the MEANA region. The West still thinks it can mold the ME to its wishes, after 100 years of trying, always conveniently forgetting how tribal and fickle it is, and will be for decades to come.
1
I imagine this will be an unpopular opinion but I think this kneejerk reaction is as ill-advised as others of its ilk and is as naive in its conception as it is dangerous in its potential implementation. Yes, the targeting of civilians (intentional or not) is disgraceful and possibly even criminal. Yes, I agree that it should stop. But, to take a shortsighted and reactionary approach such as abandoning an ally is counterproductive to both the immediate goal at hand (stopping civilian deaths) and the long term strategic interests of the US. As a country with an enormous amount of influence with Saudi Arabia (one of an increasingly few countries for which the US can still say this), we should be taking a more assertive role behind the scenes in professionalizing and advising their military in best practices. We should be giving them more training and if they don't listen, more pressure. Instead of cutting them off, we should be standing over their shoulder every minute and watching their every move. What would cutting them off do? Drive them straight into the arms of the Russians? Lead them to find another more underground source advanced weaponry, through Israel for instance? Or simply squandering the leverage that we shed so much blood and sweat for in the Middle East? In summary, let us be more pragmatic in how we deal with these emotional events while maintaining our ideals. I hope that balance will win out the day.
1
@SBR: There is nothing "kneejerk" in the reaction of probably 90% of the commentators who are writing to condemn Saudi Arabia for its continued and unlawful disregard for civilian lives and the rules of war. This callous and by all indications, deliberate conduct on the part of the Saudis and their allies has been going on for more than three (3) years! If we haven't been able to "train" them in this amount of time as you suggest, it is either because they do not feel themselves bound by any norms of human decency because of the West's dependency on their oil, or feel that with all of the major Western powers clamoring to sell them arms, they can behave as they please. Probably both.
And as far as driving them "straight into the arms of the Russians"; I doubt that Iran with whom Russia is working together in Syria and which is supporting the Houthi movement in Yemen, will consent to the Russians selling arms to the Saudis.
4
@EMIP embargoing Saudi Arabia and the UAE is the classic kneejerk reaction. You don't like something? Just disengage and condemn. Never mind the fact that KSA and UAE already have our weapons and can bomb hundreds more weddings/funerals/buses even if we stopped selling weapons to them tomorrow. If you'll read my comment, I did condemn KSA coalition's actions as criminal and disgraceful but I also stressed at the end that our response needs to be pragmatic. Our military commanders have wide leeway for military-to-military engagements with KSA and UAE even if our leadership is spineless and enamored with the KSA political leadership. We have a strategic interest in bolstering professionalism and training of the RSAF and UAEAF, not only because they are our allies but also because of regional stability. As I mentioned, pragmatism and idealism is a delicate balance and an embargo is absolutely a kneejerk response that serves no purpose. Finally, your points are easily refuted by current events. For instance, the US gets around 15% of its oil from the Middle East as a whole, about as much as we get from Canada. Much of ME's oil actually goes to Asian customers like South Korea, China, and Japan, all among the top trading partners of KSA. And Russia is selling S400 AA system to Turkey who is pitted against Assad and Iran in Syria. Russia is perfectly happy to upstage the US wherever and whenever it can. Your assertions are just not grounded in fact.
@EMIP I will also state that 90% of the commenters may agree with disengagement and embargo, but NYT's readership isn't exactly representative of the population as a whole nor can anyone say that their political leanings are anywhere near what can be described as "unbiased". There's a reason I said that my comment will be an "unpopular opinion". I stand by my characterization that condemnation and embargo is a kneejerk reaction and not at all practical or productive.
Yes, "It’s time for the United States and its Western allies to stop selling arms or giving any military assistance to Saudi Arabia and its coalition partners." But this editorial does not answer the question it asks: why is the US supporting the carnage in Yemen?
5
Let's be real here. Shites vs. Sunnis ? Been going on for how long. One of these days, this culture will arrive in the 13th century and maybe things will begin to change. Until then.........And then we have the US government and American arms sellers. Lot of money to be made on death and destruction. As long as General Dynamics is allowed to be a principal investor in the careers of American politicians, don't hold your breath waiting for a change. Until then..........
4
@sheikyerbouti: Turkey is Sunni Muslim and Iran is Shiite Muslim, both nations share a common border yet the last time they fought a war was almost two centuries ago, the Ottoman–Persian (or Qajar) War of 1821–23. So different sects of the same religion can manage to live in peace. Except when you have adherents to the extremist Wahhabi sect of Islam like the Saudis; a sect officially identified by the European Parliament in Strasbourg in July, 2013 as the main source of global terrorism. The country whose citizens were behind the 9/11 Twin Tower attacks in this country but which our own extremist President Trump fetes as being among his best friends.
2
the time is coming when i will withold my taxes. To think of what my money is paying for and what it will pay for in the future makes me sick.
1
The very fact that King Salman of Saudi Arabia has seen the need to issue a sweeping pardon of all their military personnel involved in the Yemen operation (https://www.spa.gov.sa/viewfullstory.php?lang=en&newsid=1783696) is prima facie evidence of their knowledge of having committed war crimes and crimes against humanity in Yemen.
I remember from my younger days, after the photos taken by Ron Haeberle of the My Lai Massacre emerged in 1968, the term "Baby Killers" began to be used. If ever there was a time to use that term, it should now be applied both to the Saudi murderers hiding behind the guise of Islam's "Custodian of the Two Holy Mosques" as well as to their enabler Donald Trump. The photographs that have emerged as well as the U.N. report require no less outrage on the part of all decent people.
8
Our bombs are nationality neutral; equal opportunity death bringers.
1
US and U.K. have become merchants of death.
No remorse, no empathy for the innocents
being killed, just money and more money.
Time for the congress to summon moral courage
and ban the sale of weapons to Saudis who
are killing the poor, desperate and defenseless
in Yemen. The emaciated bodies of young
children suffering from severe food and medicine
shortage is heart breaking and testimony to
immoral policies of USA and U.K.
8
Follow the money. President Eisenhower warned us of the dangers of the "military industrial complex" well over a half century ago. The beat goes on.
6
The reason we are bombing Yemen is because Jared Kushner demanded a loan for his 666 debacle from its government. When they refused to pony up, the bombing began.
1
Thank you, Editorial Board, for taking on this hair-raising theme once again. It is clear that the weapon industries are interested to prolong this dirty war as long as possible. But where are politics? This war is completely senseless. Civilians are killed a masse and the surviving are living in rubble. Just think of all the dead children.
To be an Ally to a medieval "state construction" like Saudi Arabia is no sign that you can hang out as progressive. It ruins the reputation of the United States completely. This war should be stopped on a diplomatic way, and soon.
And I am still convinced that drones involved on the Saudi side are being guided from American military at the Ramstein Airbase here in Germany, or from a recently opened military office in Stuttgart. So Germany is being drawn into this dirty war too. There is no respect on the American side. I already told you this in a Letter to the Editor.
3
Because there is no Houthi Shia Muslim Yemeni domestic American lobby,
3
In this article it is stated:
"The bomb that annihilated the school bus and its young passengers was American. "
Why stop at "American"? Why not identify the company or companies that manufacture this murderous equipment for profit? Why not identify the companies' shareholders (which likely include pension plans, mutual funds, educational endowments, etc.) so that we might be assured that they are made aware that they are profiting off of the sale of equipment being used to slaughter children?
8
"Why Are U.S. Bombs Killing Civilians in Yemen?"
Our $681,100,000,000 yearly defense budget has to kill someone, right?
Then why not civilians in Yemen?
4
When do we hold the defense contractors responsible for lobbying Congress to sell weapons to countries like Saudi Arabia? When do we hold our congressional people responsible for approving the sales of these weapons? When do we hold our military leaders responsible for partaking in crimes like these? When do we hold our Presidents responsible for approving these policies?
Do they get a free pass? And why? They all are culpable!!
43
This is just evidence that Israel controls American foreign policy. They are ultimately terrified by "Iranian aggression" and will do anything necessary to drag the United States into this by making them support this onslaught by Saudi Arabia.
4
Thank you NY Times for finding enough moral courage to bring yourself to mention the atrocities in the poorest Arab country of the world, Yemen.
Very recently Secretary of Defense said the following:
"We recognize every mistake like this is tragic in every way, but we have not seen any callous disregard by the people we're working with," Mattis said. "So we will continue to work with them."
He said the US is constantly reviewing its support for the coalition, adding it will continue to do all it can to limit civilian deaths.
"Our conduct there is to try to keep the human cost of innocents being killed accidentally to the absolute minimum [...] Our goal is to reduce this tragedy and to get it to the UN-brokered table as quickly as possible,"
If this is the position of our Government, who know we are complicit in these War Crimes being reported by UN for possible prosecution, I wonder how we can escape from being complicit be indicted as co-conspirators in these war crimes? Maybe as we have the power to stop this madness at any time we have a larger responsibility. If only we would have prosecuted people responsible for Hiroshima, Nagasaki, Laos, and Vietnam, we probably would not be standing here now.
If US Congress is unwilling to stand up to the MIC, we may have to hold accountable the manufacturers whose bombs are being used to do these killings.
3
Iran is the only country offering the Yemenis the chance to "defend themselves" while we use our navy to make sure they get no such chance.
In this case the Iranians look like the good guys on the side of justice.
5
The USA is knee deep in Yemen.
We know that because the Saudis are bombing it to the stone age. They could've only done it with active American presence.
The Americans have a very strict policy regarding air-related weapons exports to its allies: that is, the USA should always have air superiority against anyone.
No ally should be capable of doing a full-fledged aerial campaign -- let alone multiple -- alone. So, for example, allies can (and must) import American jets (like the F-35), but satellite navigation intelligence, terrain recognition (for precise strikes) and pilot training capacity in the long term should always stay under American monopoly.
That's also the reason the patriot missile system the USA exports to its allies, as well as the THAAD (which is useless against nuclear ICBM) are flawed/subpar (as videos with it in action against the Houthi in Saudi Arabia show): they are really just for psychological protection of the American satrapies overseas and, more importantly, couldn't be used against the USAAF and the USN, should they rebel against the liberal world order.
2
We continue to support the Crown Prince. The Crown Prince is out of control. We need to back off, we are on the wrong side here. Very bad things may well happen in Saudi Arabia before any thing good does.
1
President Trump is co-responsible for the muder of these children in Yemen, as well as the death of many civilians in the different wars the Royal Arab Kingdom is fighting.
Trumps prediction that his base would not raise a finger if he would kill someone, has already been proven true. His neo fascist base will not do anything about these complicit murders.
This evil man has to do go, centrist democrats have to wake up.
4
This is good, but it was obvious right from the beginning, back in 2015, that the Saudis were bombing civilians and most of my fellow liberals ignored this because it was Obama’s policy. Daniel Larison at The American Conservative has been writing about our support for this barbarous war from the start. Most conservatives with a handful of honorable exceptions in Congress ( and people like Larison) were even worse and this includes the late Senator McCain.
I have a link to a clip from the Obama era where a State Department official explicitly says that the Russians deliberately bomb civilians, but Saudis do it by accident, from imprecision in the targeting. This starts at about minute 7. The clip is from Russia Today and I have to use a propaganda site because our wonderful press has done a horrific job covering the murderous cynicism of our government under both Obama and Trump.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=uYZwgc6GwZ4
1
The current situation in Yemen is as ugly as it is desperate. And as usual, it's the civilian population that is bearing the full brunt of this ongoing conflict.
It's bad enough they have to suffer day after day of relentless bombings by the Saudis, but on top of that, any humanitraian relief supplies sent to the rampaged country's ports never reaches those who so gravely need it because of the Saudi's blockade.
That a Saudi-led military coalition can inflict such damage on Yemen is in large part due to the arms it has secured from the U.S., and the horrific results can be seen on television reports on almost a daily basis.
That said, it should surprise no one that this is the direct result of the Trump administraton's decision to lift an Obama-era ban on the sale of the military technology that's now being used to decimate the Yemeni population.
And after being received so warmly on his visit to Saudi Arabia with much glitz and fanfare, it's hard to imagine that Donald Trump will see the error of his judgement and come down hard on them.
If there's even a shred of decency left in this country's political structure to do something to end this fiasco, now is the time to do it.
Because time is running out.
32
An aside:
In the new digital format, reading the editorials, opinions and news articles of The New York Times is like reading the news in the 140-character Twitter format. This new format dumbs down the article and insults the reader.
Please return to the format of providing a complete article, not 140-character tweets.
1
"Why are U.S. Bombs Killing Civilians in Yemen?"
Ask Paul Krugman. He wrote a defense of empire for these pages a few weeks ago. His argument boiled down to saying that while it it regrettable that innocent people get killed, on balance it's worth it.
5
@Robert F
Robert, I'd love to know what column of Paul Krugman's upset you as being "regrettable".
I comment often on Paul's columns, both the economic and political ones, and can't think of one in which he "argued" what you describe.
I commented on Paul's "Notes on a Butter Republic", "Something Not Rotten in Denmark", "The Slippery Slope of Complicity", "The Tax-Cut Con Goes On", "Why It Can Happen Here", and of course this new one, but I can't place the one of Paul's that said anything about "innocent people get(ting) killed, on balance (being) worth it.) --- although I do recall Madeline Notsobright saying some like that regarding Iraqi children being bombed but worth it.
Please drop me a reply here on the column you're referring to. Thanks. (It's my real name and address and you can email me on [email protected])
1
@Alan MacDonald
Here you go. Turns out it wasn't that recent, but it stayed with me:
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/18/opinion/immigration-trump-children-am...
I did not say the column was "regrettable." I used the word to summarize K's point. Of course he didn't mention killing innocent people. Defenders of empire rarely do. But that is the underlying argument. You can read the comment section to see it taken apart, as it has been since ancient times. Also, Madeline Albright, the recent subject of a laudatory museum exhibit in this area, was talking about starving children, rather than bombing them.
Here is Mr. Krugman's take:
"The Pax Americana was a sort of empire; certainly America was for a long time very much first among equals. But it was by historical standards a remarkably benign empire, held together by soft power and respect rather than force. (There are actually some parallels with the ancient Pax Romana, but that’s another story.)"
I've seen this argument in hundreds of forms. Turns out the Romans were really cool dudes who raced around the ancient world building aqueducts, roads, and amphitheaters for local populations, asking nothing in return. The locals were inexplicably ungrateful.
Worth it? I’m sure it wasn’t worth it to the dead children…
1
Q: What's the one major policy area where Democrats and Republicans have little difficulty reaching "bipartisan consensus"?
A: Wars and regime changes.
U.S. military support for Saudi Arabia's war in Yemen started under President Obama. It is one of a long line of regime change by force interventions that Pres. Obama's administration actively backed or led, including Afghanistan (the "Surge"), Honduras, Haiti, Ukraine, Libya, and Syria. None of these countries took up arms against the United States, and every one of these actions resulted in further disaster.
Yes, Trump may have made the Yemen problem even worse, but this war is an Obama-Trump co-production. Supported by Congressional war hawks including Senator John McCain.
Why do we accept this as a society? As an electorate?
3
It's been 1,252 days since it's started and the NYT Editorial Board has finally decided that the US bombing Yemen regularly is due some coverage and commentary. Thanks for finally speaking up, but I wonder if you would've said anything if a specifically horrific hadn't happened (the school bus attack).
The US military is involved in all sorts of heinous things around the globe, but they're often completely ignored by a complicit US press who simply swallow the military's lame rhetoric ("Saudi bomb came from US" is almost as dubious as the regular "man killed by police bullet" we read so often about police shootings).
The fourth estate is a shadow of the critical presence it had during Vietnam - since the War on Terror started, the Press follows the military lock step.
Finally, let me express annoyance with this article's sly attempts to somehow rehabilitate Obama's actions in this: "....similar to the bomb that devastated a funeral hall in October 2016, in which 155 people were killed. After that, then-President Barack Obama banned the sale of precision-guided military technology to Saudi Arabia..."
The U.S. began the war with Saudi Arabia in Yemen in 2015, on Obama's watch. When 155 CIVILIANS were killed, he didn't pull out, he simply banned a specific type of weapon. This is the poisonous centrism that is killing the Democratic party and making us bedfellows with Trump and the neocons - the only correct moral action is to not be in Yemen in the first place.
3
The Obama Administration supported Saudi Arabia's murderous campaign in Yemen, providing aerial refueling and intelligence, as well as bombs. If you don't believe me, go Google it yourself. In the context of Yemen civilian casualties, the decision not to sell precision-guided weaponry to Saudi Arabia is meaningless. Blame Trump for this atrocity, sure, but blame Obama also.
3
Once more the United States has taken the wrong side in a conflict that we should not be involved with. We are involving ourselves in a religious battle that has been occurring in the Middle East for hundreds of years.
As always money has been the driving factor in arming the Saudis.
We really do not need the Saudi's oil, or their blood money, and to support a human rights violating regime involved in religious battles.
2
I think the reason for our support of the Saudis is twofold. One, we need them for the oil they supply to us and our allies. This need is something that has allowed the Saudis to be given special treatment for a long time.
Second, our support allows great profits to be made by our defense contractors. Great profits allow for great campaign donations.
Those high precision bombs, those jet fighters, all the supporting equipment cost a great deal of money. And when money is involved, it is always easy to find reasons not to do the right thing.
I know that Trump and his administration is a horror. I know that we are slowly moving towards the end of our democracy. And this must be reported on. But at the same time, the atrocities committed by the Saudis, with our support, need to be reported to the American people. We can't fight against a poor foreign policy if we don't know the facts.
41
@Joseph Thomas
'But at the same time, the atrocities committed by the Saudis, with our support, need to be reported to the American people'
Absolutely. Omaba sold those weapons and opposed the UN when they wanted to charge the Saudis with crimes against mankind.
This should be in the minds of people when they think of our ex president
@Joseph Thomas
Really good comment, Joseph Thomas.
One important reason for Donald Trump’s enthusiasm for backing the Saudi war crimes in Yemen, separate from any monetary incentive from the Saudi government helping solve the Manhattan real estate woes of Jared Kushner and other than any financial benefit from political donations from lobbyists for companies which sell high-cost military hardware, is the narcissistic need of Trump to be perceived as doing something better than Barack Obama.
The worldwide praise for the Iran nuclear deal negotiated in Vienna in 2015 by John Kerry on behalf of the United States, China, Russia, United Kingdom, France and Germany and the European Union, with verification by experts from the International Atomic Energy Agency, grated on Trump, and even while campaigning in 2016, he promised to negotiate "a better deal."
Typically, Donald Trump’s idea of negotiating a better deal was to threaten publicly to bomb Iran into oblivion immediately, an idea which sounded good to Benjamin Netanyahu. It did not sound good to Iran, and the government there vowed to defend itself.
Donald Trump scrapped the Iran deal in March of this year, and instead of dropping big bombs on Iran, he decided to flex his muscles by dropping those same bombs on Shiite women and children in Yemen.
@Joseph Thomas The US no longer needs Saudi oil.... on point 2 I cannot disagree.
Why? Because there is more money to be made bombing human beings than there is in aiding them.
On top of that and underlining it is the whole fantasy of religious belief. A fiction created by men to keep them in power and control.
What about this, do people who purportedly subscribe to reason as their guide, don't they get?
Difficult to accept we are living in the 21st century while still subscribing to and living in control of those who promote medieval beliefs. No wonder the men who know their control is at risk are always at war.
Too bad the rest of us don't get the picture.
Too bad we are the ones who are killed.
4
Why is a very silly question! It’s about cash, nothing more, unless you hate people of color, which some might think the current US president does! NRA, and dozens of corporations are taking in huge profits, and shareholders are loving it.
And it’s all done in our name, and will continue in our name.
1
Because the world allows the U.S. to act with impunity, whether it's killing civilians in Yemen or separating immigrant families in the U.S., both 'crimes against humanity'. The International Criminal Court (ICC) is for more than just petty African and Balkan dictators.
"No Justice, no Peace!"
Take note...and action.
5
From The (Halifax) Chronicle Herald, August 29, 2018:
Yemen Conflict - Mattis: U.S. Still Backs Saudis
The world is not blind, just silent.
"Silence in the face of evil is itself evil: God will not hold us guiltless.Not to speak is to speak.Not to act is to act."
~ DIETRICH BONHOEFFER
German pastor, theologian, anti-Nazi dissident executed by Germany in the final days of WWII as the Nazi regime finally collapsed with their surrender of Berlin to the Red Army in April 1945.
1
The worldwide sale of advanced weapons to virtually any country that can afford to pay for them continues unabated. In particular, the massive sales to Saudi Arabia of all manner of weapons is not going to bring peace to the Middle East by any stretch of the imagination, but only continue the carnage. When countries buy these arms, they tend to use them, and when they do, arms manufacturers get richer.
Very few diplomats speak of convening multilateral peace talks in the Middle East, and I suspect one reason for this is that their governments regard the arms trade as too important for it to be interrupted by any such frivolous concerns as saving human lives.
So, yes, we will continue to see on our television screens the images of terrified children, shattered cities and bombed-out hospitals, destroyed by “mistakes.” Some of these weapons may be “precision-guided,” but they are unleashed by humans.
5
I just want to thank Lt. Gen. Jeffrey Harrigian for being exasperated and having the guts to say so. Seriously, I know it takes a lot for you guys to break ranks. Trump is, after all, your commander in chief.
It made front page news when Trump finalized a 100 billion dollar arms deal with the Saudis. I was disgusted--when are we going to stop being duped by them? They sent fourteen of the nineteen 9/11 pilots here, and we have somehow absolved them of all wrongdoing just because the royal family swears up and down they had nothing to do with it.
Salman and his band of thieves have been given carte-blanche to do whatever they want by Donald Trump. That became very clear when Justin Trudeau called the Saudis out on their human rights abuses. The Saudis instantly retaliated because they know Donald Trump has their backs. They know they can get away with anything with no interference or sanctions from us. That feud is still ongoing, although we don't hear much about it in the American press.
This American supports you, Mr. Trudeau. Keep that spine stiff. Don't back down. And, thank you again, Lt. Gen. Jeffrey Harrigian. I hope there are more like you.
4
Remember the sword dance, in Trump's first foriegn trip?
Trump likes rich people, they employed Trump whisperers, flashed their gold, they stay at his hotels, there's opportunity to build towers in Saudi Arabia.
There's a reason presidents are expected to divest their assets, to avoid corruption like this.
4
Never mind what's happening in the Yemen or anywhere else the U. S. military is active. The Dow is up, the S & P index is at record highs, the unemployment rate is at historical lows, trade agreements are being renegotiated, the Iran nuclear agreement is trashed, etc., etc. etc. What matter that a few innocents get slaughtered by U. S. made bombs every now and again. It's third page news. Such is the price of war...except it is not the U. S.'s war. Does anyone think the people of Yemen, Iraq, and Afghanistan, among others, do not consider the United States of America a terrorist country? But, we will make America great again, won't we? Indeed, we will while the rest of the world cringes and remembers.
8
It is a surprise that pay for play is going on with DT? Wasn't it obvious on his first Presidential trip?
Obama was bombing Yemen and seven other countries and there were plenty of reports of civilian casualties - and there wasn't a peep out of the Times editors. Silly partisanship.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/u-s-bombed-iraq-syria-pakistan-afghan...
3
U.S. participation in Yemen is UNCONSTITUTIONAL!
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/10/opinion/yemen-war-unconstitutional.html
1
Why Are U.S. Bombs Killing Civilians in Yemen?
Same reason they killed civilians in Vietnam, Afghanistan, Iraq, Yugoslavia, Libya, Balochistan (by Pakistan), Somalia and...which country did I miss?
9
@Cosby Panama, Laos and Cambodia.
The ongoing war crime is hiding behind, among civilians. Sunni or Shi’a, terrorist or supposed rights groups, it little matters to the innocent victims.
Next year it will be the century mark for the 1919 carving up of the WWI spoils of war; setting borders, awarding territory. By the West. All Middle Eastern countries should hold a World conference next year. Calling a truce, it is past time for them to set their own borders, adjust territories, perhaps move populations, and...heaven forbid...once done, all must agree to respect diversity that will inevitably develop- the ‘treaty’, to be reviewed every 100 years.
And during that next century, a treaty ban on any/all financing of ....groups unhappy with the Conference results. Maybe call it the Civilian’s Conference, since they will be the winners.
And let's not forget the huge embrace that the murderous de-facto Saudi leader, MBS, got when he visited the White House and Hollywood. All that because he 'allowed' women to drive, only to jail female activists and put them on death row. He then berated Canada and cut diplomatic ties and trade with them without even a word from their "supposed" allies like the US and Europe! Shame...
8
Once we signed on with the loathsome Saudis, originators of Wahabbism and 9-11, our ethical goose was cooked. Enjoy, fellow citizens, enjoy.
4
When you have a bomb everything looks like a target.
5
Here is an earlier, more critical assessment of what the Saudis are doing in Yemen and the complicity of US journalism:
https://theintercept.com/2018/04/24/mohammed-bin-salman-mbs-saudi-arabia...
2
A better headline:
"Why isn't the NYT criticizing iran for giving massive amounts of weapons to the terrorist houthi group who is using them to commit war crimes"?
Given the NYT's financial relationship with the terrorist regime of iran, and its profitable tourist trips to iran, we all know the reason why.
1
The sad part is this will not end as long as neo-liberals like Obama the drone king and the right-wing republican hawks continue to be in the pockets of arms manufacturers and AIPAC. More about money than political beliefs.
8
Why do US bombs kill Palestinians?
3
@Rocky Why does Hamas divert resources from improving the lives of Gazan's to dig offensive tunnels and build weapons?
Do your research before you do the graphics... 500lbs mk82 with laser guidance kit does NOT look anything close to you 1960 USArmy rocket artillery ordnance you have tried to sling under the saudi f15...
Could the answer be that the Saudis are dropping American bombs on women and children in Yemen because Donald Trump and Jared Kushner are corrupt?
NY Times Editors, this is NOT new. Where were you before the Trump regime was installed? Why were you silent?
5
No mention that Obama and Clinton started this? Its all Trumps fault!
4
@D. Cassidy
"No mention that Obama and Clinton started this? Its all Trumps fault!"
It's the American people's fault, and their politicians, for sustaining the Great Satan, the military-industrial complex - the real deep state - with a yearly $700,000,000,000 "defense" budget.
A long due and absolutely right opinion; however, under the geopolitical terms of the regional situation (especially the Iran-Saudi rivalry), it’s highly unlikely that “a negotiated agreement” is possible before the catastrophe will basically destroy the Yemen people.
The Sine Qua Non (restricting) rules of Just International Intervention are: A. Never exaggerate the severity of the (internal and international) situation to be ameliorated in order to justify an intervention. B. Never act in such a way that the civil population which is to be saved is put in harm's way in order to provide unqualified safety for the intervening force. In other words, the rules of fighting a Just War should be extended considerably in favor of the invaded population. C. Never intervene in an oil (or any other most wanted asset) rich country unless it can be positively be proven that it's not about geostrategic hegemony or economic profits. D. Never leave the invaded country before the establishment of a self-sustainable and viable internal political and economic order (which has confirmed potential to substantially improve the quality of life in the invaded country.)
On this basis, the Yemen internal hell is a clear case for just (and morally obligatory) international intervention. The excruciating historical irony is: that’s exactly why no saving intervention is in the offing.
Yep, our good old allies the Saudis.
We reward them when their brethren and royal family members commit terrorism on our own soil. We invade and commit war crimes on a neighboring sovereign country, killing hundreds of thousands of civilians and un-homing millions more. While laying waste to our own sons and daughters and our own economy with two un-paid wars.
Now we enable and encourage our MIC and its affiliates by committing atrocities against another brown country that most Americans couldn't find on a map, even if given GPS coordinates. All in the name of Profit Uber Alles. Nothing else matters. MONEY!
Yes, the smart bombs are one thing. Now lets discuss how and why America is still investing and selling Cluster Bombs, even thought they are banned in most of the civilized world.
We talk about minimizing civilian casualty's, yet maximizing casualty's is exactly what cluster bombs do. For tens of decades after these stupid, ignorant blood lettings are over.
Karma is going to be hell to pay America.
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/15/world/middleeast/new-report-of-us-mad...
http://www.stopclustermunitions.org/en-gb/cluster-bombs/use-of-cluster-b...
http://legaciesofwar.org/resources/cluster-bomb-fact-sheet/
4
We have set the Middle East on fire because we have always wanted the oil, and while hypocrite Trump indiscriminately bans immigrants from 6 Muslim countries, he stays in bed with the Saudi purveyors of one of the most extreme sects of Islam that there is, i.e., Wahhabism.
Why Are U.S. Bombs Killing Civilians in Yemen?
Duh, because they're in Yemen!
1
Why isn't this a War Crime by the USA?
5
This is the Amerika behind the scenes. This is why most of the world hates the government of the US. This is the weapons bazaar that is the United Nations. This is trump celebrating selling billion$ and billions$ of weapons to Saudis to kill starving, cholera riddled civilians in Yemen.
Amerika the grotesque.
5
@johnnyd
Indeed America is grotesque because proudly ignorant Americans make yet another millennia old ethnic religious conflict over there about whatever their little ol self loves to rant about here.
Foreigners to them are less real than dolls to a three year old who throws away today’s doll when tomorrow comes.
Possessing and distributing the capacity to deliver destruction at a safe distance comes with massive moral responsibility. Those in power inside the beltway are simply not up to this responsibility.
1
Because Middle East is the new South American playground for blood thirsty people in power in the psychopathic part of American institutions ?
6
Sunni Arabs are fighting Iranian Shi’a whackos who use the nation state of Iran to impose their ways on everyone in their region by force.
Innocents are dying.
The Times shares the blame for lying about what is happening and reporting as if everything were caused by and is the fault of the US.
If the Times stuck to reporting truth over the years the root problems would be addressed but the Times has no intention of outing the Iranian whackos who for four decades have needlessly caused troubles and assassinated and overthrown governments in their pursuit of a crazy hegemony that even their own people reject.
2
The simple answer to the title of the Editorial piece is that there are no accountability to what the rich and strong countries can do to children of a lesser God. Psychopaths on all sides will never care about the death of innocent lives.
6
Let's be honest here.We have people in our current government who LIED about how many people died in Puerto Rico.....who locked up children in detention centers here in this country for being brought here by their parents, and now we supply bombs to kill and maim innocent civilians in Yemen.
For us to claim any humanitarian ground is, frankly, a real visit to fantasy land these days.
This President continues to place this nation in danger by his inability to recognize that we stand for a whole lot more than commerce and cash.....But, the Saudi's rewarded him with a gold sword and that is how cheap and easy that deal was made. The "Art of the Deal' never involved body counts and one suspects it never will.
4
"Why Are U.S. Bombs Killing Civilians in Yemen?"
Obviously, because Emperor Trump is not just satisfied with being an Emperor in America --- he wants to be the Emperor of the World --- but Emperor Trump actually is, as he bragged, "really really smart" (as many sociopaths are in deception) and he understands better than anyone that he has to effectively disguise his "Quiet American" ploys in making America act like a global Empire without 'we the American people' seeing that he is using our country for his uber-imperialist goal of ruling the world.
That's why Emperor Trump deceitfully uses all the powers he has to continue quietly enflaming proxy-wars abroad, igniting a global race war in South Africa (over "Land Reform", and any possible "Wealth Reform" here), along with engendering a scorched-earth 'fear campaign' with his base against the divided "issues" campaigns of the weakened domestic opposition that can't yet see the "forest of Empire through the trees of issues".
As other "Empire-thinking" madmen have previously proved, "The Only Thing Necessary for the Triumph of Evil is that Good Men Do Nothing" --- or be distracted by lesser 'issues' than an Emperor building his Empire.
IMHO, the only defense against Empire is for all Americans --- from John McCain to Bernie Sanders and all in between --- to remember and peacefully rally to the cause that our country was formed 242 years ago in the American "Revolution Against Empire" and that "We can't be an Empire".
3
American arms regularly slaughter Palestinian and Lebanese civilians as well (in carnage exceeding even the thousands murdered in the horror in Yemen).
There's nothing new about our complicity in civilian murder.
We are complicit in Israeli horror, Saudi horror, and untold others around the world. That is in fact who we are. Eyes wide open to recognize that. We can change it. But first we need to recognize who and what we actually are. And stop pretending every new instance is somehow something so unique that we need to immediately bring it into the "norm." The "norm" is outrageously awful and disgraceful.
2
The Saudis joined in the campaign against ISIS and immediately left to kill Shia in Yemen. ISIS is full of Saudi and other Sunni jihadists. By killing the hated Shia "rafidha" the Saudis are buying space in paradise. The US by helping the Saudis is exposed as a nation committing war crimes. On accusations by Sunni jihadists in Syria of chemical weapons use the US hit Syria with missiles. The West and NATO are in no hurry to hit Saudi Arabia with missiles even after it has murdered scores of Yemeni children. The US has no morals.
The real question to me is, why do all American governments bend over backwards for Saudi Arabia? The only explanation I can find isn't oil, it's arms. The Saudis are the best customer of the US arms industry. Who really cares about a bunch of poor Yemenis?
“the murderously incompetent Saudi-led air campaign in Yemen”??? What evidence is there that this murder is “incompetence” and not intended? Why is the USA involved in a religious war between sects??
3
Guess what?? War is bad!! Non combatants have died in every serious conflict since the beginning of time. Chimpanzees attack other groups and kill non combatants. Early humans killed each other. Paleolithic people killed each other. Hunter gatherers killed each other, as did people in the Bronze Age, Classical Europe, the Middle Ages, the Renaissance, the Civil War, WWI, WWII, etc. I think some non combatants died in the bombing of Hiroshima. Not saying that’s good, or even acceptable, but to express astonishment is a sign of a deep misunderstanding of human nature.
Dropping bombs on locally born, in their own country, civilians under the auspices of "liberating" the population is one of the USA's most common activities since WW II.
Korea? Yep....lots of native born citizens killed for no reason and thank goodness for Eisenhower. He got us out.
Vietnam? Yep.....somehow we declared local born civilians as "insurgents" and started killing them for no other reason than military contractor profits.
Afghanistan? Think immediately of the now demonized "Taliban" which never attacked the USA and even today offers no threat to the USA. Just a bunch of local born folks who want their own country back. But, we kill them and REPORT ON IT LIKE IT IS GOOD NEWS! Go figure.
Iraq? In 2000? A beautiful old country with functioning hospitals, schools where girls attended, shops and huge markets, beautiful, ancient cities? Now. All rubble and dead civilians that we, the USA, somehow defined as "insurgents" and have killed hundreds of thousands of.
Lastly, we sponsored the largest diaspora from the Middle East in History by arming the "rebels" in Syria thereby starting a war that resulted in huge refugee crisis.
The US is really, really good at destorying countries where brown people or Asians live. But, since WW II we have not done much else. Our own infrastructure is in shambles, but, we just finished building a superhiway in Iraq.
But, nobody drives on that hiway. good news...some contractor got rich building it.
8
But I thought the Saudis were the good guys !
Saudi Arabia is our greatest enemy after Trump and the Republicans.
2
The military industrial complex Ike warned us about is spread across virtually every Congressional District to make it untouchable. Unwanted weapons programs cannot be terminated by Congress because some Reps constituents would loose jobs. If you are building all this stuff, you have to use it somewhere or production would have to stop. The USA builds bombs and drops bombs. If we don't have an easy target or enemy, we find or create them. The Saudi's are our surrogate bombers. How dare you call into question the use of these products which are making america great again. After all, we are only dropping bombs on those would be immigrants and people, are they people, who think they should be entitled to their own version of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Fools! Incoming!
1
For the Trump administration killing non-whites are of no concern. The sad part is that our military follows every request by the President without asking any questions.
And fittingly, our arms makers callously make those weapons available to kill more, in reality, dollars over the lives of other humans. What a conutry we've become.
1
Your criticism is well taken, although late and too little, to shame the U.S. government in it's complicity in the killing of innocent people, children included, by the criminal Saudis. Saudi Arabia is a dictatorship and has no patience, nor morals, to consider human rights as a legitimate issue...while impunity adds insult to injury. These United States have said, on multiple occasions, that it has no friends, just interests. And they remain 'faithful' to their greedy pragmatism, as the selling of weapons is a huge business...however bloody, over the dead bodies of Yemenis. Given the shameful U.S. involvement and complicity, is it any wonder it won't join the International Court of Justice...and be judged for it's graft? Why, oh why can't we use diplomacy instead, and push criminal minds 'a la Trump' aside? Is this carnage what Pompeo wants to be remembered by? We are being governed by unfeeling egomaniac plutocrats whose entire goal in life is to make as much money as possible (I suppose to lit the fire of their stinking bodies, once gone), however brutal their design. Who are we, animals with the distinct 'privilege' to torture our fellow beings...before the kill?
1
I keep reading of other countries getting prosecuted for war crimes - how come is it that no one in America ever get prosecuted?
1
This paper asks why? Are you serious? It's our policy that we have sided with the Saudis (Sunni) & of course the Israelis. Anybody but Iran. That is unless they are helping us like in Iraq. And the Saudis are our biggest weapons customers. Our economy is based on the defense industry. Selling weapons & creating wars. We have sold the Saudis hundreds of billions in weapons in the past few years, & always have. We should not be taking sides in the Sunni - Shia conflict. We are also giving target advice & helping logistically in Yemen. I wouldn't be surprised if we have soldiers there. Most likely we ok'd the school bus strike. Honestly our policies in the Middle East are insane & evil. But it's what our masters the Israelis & Saudis want. Trump has gone all in with this. He has also held back all aid to the Palestinians, which is kind of related. But Obama and all Presidents have sold plenty to the Saudis.
Here's a question for the Times. How much of your stock holdings & investments are tied up in the defense industry? Also despite this editorial the slant of this paper has always supported the Israeli & Saudi, anti Iran line. We have to sell weapons, our economy would probably collapse if we didn't. And we need to instigate wars so everyone keeps buying the latest models. The problem is the world is to small & too interrelated to keep perpetuating wars & bombing everywhere. Now we have another humanitarian crisis along with Syria, Libya, Iraq, parts of Africa ....
6
@Doctor Woo
"Selling weapons & creating wars."
A clear-eyed view of America.
1
We are the new Soviet Union .
Let's not fool ourselves: there will be no negotiated solution. Saudi Arabia has in the past refused new elections and insisted on re-installation of Hadi. It knows fully well that Hadi is very unpopular: he is fiercely sectarian and has brought war to the country. But he is their puppet.
The choice is between telling the Saudi's they are out of order and offering them a fig leaf or continuing the war for years and - if they might ever win - overseeing a very ugly "peace".
"President Barack Obama banned the sale of precision-guided military technology to Saudi Arabia. The ban was overturned by the Trump administration in March 2017." Another immoral, wrongheaded and evil act by this administration.
56
@Riz
But you understand that Obama and Clinton started this, right?
@Riz Ugh, the war in Yemen is not just a Trump thing.
Banning the sale of one type of weapon after 155 CIVILIANS were killed is the lamest action Obama could've taken. He didn't pull the US out of the war, the only right moral action, and the only thing that would've stopped Trump and the neocons from escalating the war in the first place: it would've been much harder for Trump to begin an invasion than simply move back to using a supposedly banned weapon.
Obama's actions elsewhere speak for themselves: he dropped a lot of bombs on other countries as President, like Bush before him and Trump after him.
As wildly different as Trump and Obama and Bush seem in rhetoric and presence, its amazing how nearly every President capitulates and reinforces the military industrial complex and our constant immoral foreign aggression.
That MUST change.
1
@Riz
Don’t kid yourself. The Obama Administration was slapping the Saudis on the wrist. Their policy was to support the Saudi bombing with aerial refueling missions and that never stopped. Both Administrations pretended to believe that the Saudis bomb civilians by accident, because if they acknowledged it was deliberate it would be an admission of complicity in war crimes.
The Saudis and their allies have been slaughtering Yemeni civilians with US support for some time now. This call for an end to military aid and assistance to the Saudis is long overdue. One can’t help but wonder if, after their silence while Obama pursued the same policy, the Times’s motivation has more to do with stirring up opposition to Trump, but no matter, it’s still the right call. Newspaper editorials, however, are unlikely to produce results on their own. We need an anti-war movement that we haven’t had for a long time. We need activists to educate people about the US-Saudi war on Yemen. We need students to protest. We need sit-ins in the offices not just of Republicans but of the many Democrats in Congress who voted for the military allocations that make this criminal carnage possible.
1
American defense policy priorities should be:
1.) Human Rights
2.) Diplomacy and coalition building
3.) De-escalation of conflict
4.) Reduction in arms sales
5.) Sanctions on those who fund weapons
5
For those who see "national security" as a justification, this is a circular firing squad. You can't provide support for the 'casual' killing of civilians in a foreign land & not expect long-term pay back down the road.
Would we accept this by armed, sanctioned, actors in our own country? Simply examine damage done to relations between police and communities, where their innocents are "collateral damage" in the War on Drugs.
Now multiply.
There is no reason why the United States can't exert pressure- with consequences!!!- upon Saudi Arabia for the callous disregard for "rules of of war". (Such as they are.)
The problem is our own callous disregard and the justifications for greed, ignorance and incompetence now rampant in the US. These days it is fully (tragically) on display.
47
@kfm
Saudi Arabia, the perpetrator of the 9/11 catastrophe and our dysfunctional response must be wiped off the face of the earth, except for Mecca and Medina.
I still see GWB holding hands with Prince Bandar.
The same US bombs, dropped by US-made Israeli warplanes, levelled densely populated neighborhoods of south Beirut in 1982 and the Gaza Strip in 2006.
Russia has its own war crimes to answer for in the deliberate destruction of entire towns and neighborhoods in Syria, which is ongoing.
And when it comes to the deliberate bombing of civilians, we remember Guernica in 1937, and the allied effort to de-house the German civilian population in 1943-45.
These things have consequences. Osama Bin Laden said he got the idea of knocking down the World Trade Center from watching American-made bombs rain down on apartment houses in Beirut in 1982.
4
Once again, I offer sincere awe and appreciation to The Editorial Board for getting straight to point about this madness. I read The Times religiously and I've noticed a trend over the past several months that The Editorial Board demonstrates resolute clarity on tremendously important issues that are lacking in other areas of this publication and media in general. As The Times is our countries "paper of record" what is printed here tends to lead the national dialogue. Yet, The Editorial Board seems to operate at times in a vacuum in its own space. Maybe its the fragmentation of attention spans in the Trump crack era. I have to admit, its hard not to stare agape at the daily train wreck perfectly symbolized by Sarah Huckabee. Several months ago the Board proclaimed the 2008 collapse was an engineered fraud of unprecedented magnitude that led to calamity for millions and went unprosecuted. What? Really? What does that mean? What should have happened that didn't? Here you effectively draw attention to an unprecedented calamity of a different kind but the implications are equally profound. What I'm reading between the lines is there is a military/financial complex that can sleep at night as long our relationship with Saudi keeps oil gluttony supreme regardless of 9/11, climate change and this disaster in Yemen. Sooey!
1
The us, uk, france , saudi arabia should be prosecuted by the International War Crimes Court.
3
Its immoral. Some commenters have stated that it has happened in almost every war, that does not make it right. Hiroshima was wrong, so was the bombing of London and so too this tragedy in Yemen. Kids on a school bus is not a price that anyone should endorse paying.
We should not sell arms to anyone. Not to Israel, not to Saudi Arabia, not to Ireland (who don't buy them), to no one. We should insist that the UK and France stop too. Embargo Russia if they continue. It is morally wrong to profit from the selling of arms.
Let them fight with sticks and stones or swords if they still make them. Better yet, beat those swords into plowshares.
The first step is to end the justification of collateral damage in unjust wars. Its just murder by another name.
57
The United States, due to the intentional act of Donald Trump, is now complicit in Saudi war crimes in Yemen. American servicemen find themselves, trapped by a duty to follow orders, forced to participate in the ruthless killing of civilians – including a disproportionate number of women and children.
Less than two weeks from the 17th anniversary of the Saudi-planned attack on America and the carnage at the World Trade Center in New York, we find ourselves in league with the 9/11 butchers.
There is no logic to our involvement and, more importantly, no moral justification.
45
@sdw Perhaps there is little logic in selling arms to Saudis but there is money. Many have reported the loans arranged with Saudi help for Mr. and Mrs. Kushners 666 building in New York that seemed to coincide with arms sales agreements with the Trump administration.
In the humanitarian crisis in Yemen the United States is seen as contributing the bombs and we will bear the consequences.
1
@Lois
It is hard to know what precipitated the uptick in Saudi cruelty to Shiites in Yemen. The rumors of financing for the Kushner’s Manhattan building may be true, as may the political donations from lobbyists for manufacturers of high-tech weaponry.
Another factor may be the determination of President Trump to undo anything President Obama did.
Shia Muslims have lived in Yemen and in parts of eastern Saudi Arabia for centuries. Saudi figures dispute it, but Shiites may comprise a majority in Yemen.
The Shiites have been persecuted by successive Saudi governments – all from the extremist Wahhabi sect of Sunni Islam which gave birth to ISIS -- for years. That persecution has included bombing and denial of access to food.
Cooperation by American governments in that persecution is relatively recent. The ban by President Obama on selling large, laser-guided bombs to Saudi Arabia was overturned by President Trump in March 2017.
Thank you for FINALLY addressing this. It's about money made from selling weapons to the Saudis. We never hear criticism of Saudi Arabia and it is not just their oil..it's that our defense contractors make tons of money from them. The war business owns and operates this country. It owns both parties. Note the obscene amount both parties just voted to fund military stuff. Shameful, venal, cruel people. Many jobs in many states are war jobs. We need to figure out how to employ those people working for something else.
4
To answer the title question:
Because U.S. corporations profit, if politics turns a blind eye.
And consequently it does turn a blind eye to basic considerations of the human heart and to elementary brain efforts different from the complicated, stressed-out avalanche of brain popping efforts needed to scheme, protect and uphold the deceit, the abuse, the theft, the killings and the wounding and the destruction, the long-term devastation fall-out, the 24/7 output of false accusations and deflections and distractions and hallucinations and hypocrisy, all prompted by short-term profit greed.
Everyone now knows the name of Molly Tibbetts, mainly because her death could be linked to a group that is demonized for a sugar high and a joy ride to hate, although it commits less crime than Americans as a whole: illegal aliens.
Very few know a name of one of those 22 children or one of the thousands of the victims of rough global warming weather conditions in Puerto Rico, that are directly connected to American responsibility for illegal slaying.
2
Finally some attention to the horror going on in Yemen. Days go by and not one piece of news, or buried deep in the small print. Why is there so little coverage of Yemen? When is the cloud going to be raised?
1
You mention the “support” the US gives the Saudis and the Emiratis, but you don’t mention what this support entails.
How many realise that this includes the US providing aerial refuelling for these strike aircraft. Without this support the warplanes couldn’t fly far enough, weighed down by heavy bombs, to perform their atrocities.
Every day US military aircraft, crewed by US military personnel, take off from their Qatari airbases and orbit the Arabian Sea for long hours providing fuel for these attacks. On some missions aircraft are refuelled before, during and after these inhuman raids.
It the US accomplices to a crime are just as culpable as the perpetrators. This means that the aircrew and those that order their missions are just as culpable as the murdering Saudi and Emirati pilots flying US warplanes and dropping US bombs on civilians.
The US could stop these atrocities simply by standing down their aircraft and sending them home.
56
This editorial is several years late in arriving. The genocide being carried out by the Saudis against Yemen began with the enthusiastic support of Obama. Years of bombing civilians targets, including US drone strikes, wiping out infrastructure such as hospitals and sewage treatment plants and prohibiting humanitarian aid from reaching the populations has pushed the Yemeni people to the brink of massive deaths from malnutrition and cholera. Where has the New York Times been all this time? Why have they ignored the greatest humanitarian crisis of this century? The cruelty of Saudi attacks on Yemen are mirrored in the cruelty of despotic terrorism practiced at home. I'm glad that the paper decided to speak up now, but when apportioning shame, the editors need to confront their own complicity in this on-going horror. Remember Thomas Friedman's celebratory description of the dynamic reforms of the new Prince, one of the chief architects of the bombing campaign.
3
How can anyone who has spent as much as a week in Saudi Arabia and seen the complete daily humiliation of its female population, and then remember the provenance of most of the 9-11 hijackers, and still call them "our good allies"? The place is an obscenity.
3
What about the complicity of America's Mainstream Media, which has all but ignored Yemen, while devoting endless resources to alleged Russian collusion, Stormy Daniels, Trump's latest mean tweet.
4
Our government is dancing with the Saudis. And making money. And keeping the price of oil stable. The things that really matter. Forget humanitarian concerns and supporting war criminals.
3
Remember 9.11? Let me remind you. That day Saudi Arabia citizens attacked and killed many adults (but no children) in the USA. Now let's see the other side of the story. American arms have killed thousands and thousands of men, women and children all over the world and now the USA is greedily providing weapons to the Saudi Arabians to continue their religious wars. Just so long as it is not in the USA.
4
The current administration is an accomplice to atrocities in Yemen and many other places. Having said that, coming from a strong supporter of president Obama, I can say that our continuing policies inherited from prior administrations of looking the other way While our allies used arms purchased from the US to commit atrocities is alive and well.
18
The answer to the question the caption of this "Opinion" asks is simply that the United States of America is uncivilized. With its history of "exceptionalism," this isn't new. Consider all of the systematic damage that has been justified by this arrogance ... what was and still is done to Native Americans; slavery and racial injustice. And it's getting worse presently in the instigation of "making America great again." And at the end of the day, we Americans are all responsible at some level.
What’s the use of criticising afterward?Should have (been) prevented before the disaster.
Thank you for finally breaking what seems to be a collective silence in the US media about our nation's involvement in Yemen.
4
If the Saudi's weren't bombing civilians then what are they aiming for? Yemen's vast military bases? How do you get a people to surrender very fast? bomb their school buses? I think so.
What if this was an Israeli settlement that was hit? Do you think we might see a little coverage? I have to watch the BBC to get a little footage of what's really going on in the world most of the time.
And lastly, I'd like to thank Mr. Kushner for finally bringing peace to the middle east or is that making the middle east into pieces?
1
Once again the U.S. Has blood on its hands and Congress sits idle. One more reason to vote in November but who will speak now for the many innocents who will die before then?
1
The number of civilian deaths in Yemen is unknown. The aggressors minimize the numbers. The victims maximize them. Whether particular individuals are combatants or civilians is frequently impossible to say,
Obama relied heavily on drones. The Saudis rely heavily on bombers. The overall effect on civilian casualties is unknown. But the biases of the Editorial Board are flagrant.
Check the caption on the picture here. The picture shows a Saudi bomber dropping an American bomb. But you need to read the caption -- it is a purposely deceptive amalgamation of a photograph and an illustration.
Whether US drones or Saudi bombers cause more civilian deaths is hard to say. But the cartoonist used by the Board clearly believes he has all the answers, and that we need to stop funding the Saudis. The Board wants a foreign policy governed by cartoons. Gimme a break.
The plain English statements by the Editorial Board tell the world once again, just how far we have fallen:
"Again and again, Saudi-led airstrikes have struck civilian targets, slaughtering innumerable innocents."
"That’s the horror. The shame: The bomb...was American."
"Saudi Arabia and its allies seem to have little compunction about slaughtering children as long as more bombs can be bought,"
"...it’s up to the enablers to call a halt."
Enabler number one? The USA in the form of Donald Trump, Jared Kushner, and Donald Trump Jr., all three locked in an embrace of their Wahabi friends and business partners.
Expect nothing from them.
Vote in November, by which time the horror in Yemen will have only become much worse.
Only-NeverInSweden.blogspot.com
Citizen US SE
3
Yemen and the Saudis have been at “war”, since the west chopped up tribal districts in the middle east during WWS 1and 2
Trump family gave Saudis “ green light” with the gift of unrestrained weapons to throw at Yemen.
Remember trump dancing w a saber and his saudi friends .
All smiles .
I wish folks were less ignorant of the fact that the entire middle east is a false entity of invisible lines cutting thru tribal lands.
Oil, oil,
Goes back to the 1970’s
Read a ton of history and political papers of founders et al
Vote well in November.
Powerful countries bomb, brutalize, and starve innocent civilians because they can get away with it. I doubt the kids on the ground really care if the bombs are Made in the USA, in Canada, or where ever. In WWII an estimated 50 -55 million civilians were killed as opposed to 20- 25 million military deaths. Modern warfare, especially bombing, is by it's very nature a war against civilians. When was the last time war criminals were held accountable in any meaningful numbers or in any meaningful way? Never happens.
Collateral damage is an easy thing to brush off when you're the one inflicting it. It's a whole different ball game when you are BEING it.
'Do unto others as you have them do unto you' is not a motto you will ever see plastered on a wall in any war room or military facility.
1
Follow the money. Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed Bin Salman has a lot, much of it coerced from other members of the royal family with strongarm tactics like jailing his relatives in a luxury hotel. When he is not buying yachts and French vineyards, MBS is in charge of this criminally inept war and pays handsomely for our bombs as well as getting "expert" advice from that wise military strategist Jared Kushner.
7
The heading is rhetorical? Because it is profitable!
1
Donald Trump’s first major “deal” after his inauguration was to sell $110 billion in arms to the Saudis, which was actually the biggest sale of its kind in American history.
There is no great mystery here. The United States withdrew from the UN Human Rights Council, not because the State of Israel is being treated “unfairly,” but because our current administration has no interest whatsoever in doing its part to stop violent bloodshed around the world.
48
@ubique
Agree. And at the same time the Evangelicals supporting Trump want to criminalize abortion because life is sacred while discounting the violent deaths of those in Muslim countries.
1
@ubique
How much has the military industrial complex contributed to the politicians ? We shouldn’t forget the lobbyists and money makes war and likes of donnie demented follows the orders given him.
1
@George
Donald Trump owns stock in Raytheon. He’s been profiting off of death since long before he was elected.
1
Thanks for posing the question of why the US is involved in the Saudi assault on Yemen. The atrocities committed on the civilian population deserves much more attention than received in the US media. It is hard to argue that what is happening in Yemen hasn’t risen to the level of war crimes, and that the US is not complicit in those crimes.
10
I guess that supporting the Yemen government is not an option, while supporting the Saudi Arabia government is.
3
American Corporate corruption seems to always come with a war that no one wants and no one can stop. It was that was in Roman Empire times, in Vietnam days, and now we find ourselves in bankrupting wars that get the war lovers fat and the Middle East sand once again covered in blood.
I do not support my country's wars, and haven't since the "shock and awe" war crimes of the Bush/Cheney gang, but hey, why actually ask the American people if they want more bodies of little children littering the sand?
Hugh
3
The military industrial complex is thriving!
Since Eisenhower spoke about the military industrial complex, the United States has been involved in a plethora of hideous wars, killing about twenty million people, all on foreign soil, and for no good reason except to line the pockets of the oligarchs.
I would ask every American to look at the problem objectively and please answer this question. Can you name one war, incursion, special operation, or whatever you want to call it that has benefited the interest of Americans beyond the rich one-percenters who profit from arms.
The rest of the world is aware of our aggressive and immoral behavior, but somehow, we Americans feel we are exceptional.
We have wasted trillions of dollars on military “missions” that could have gone towards infrastructure and, in the long haul, we would have been safer.
The Pitchforks are Coming!
Thanks, NYTimes for the good article.
12
@pete.monica
"The rest of the world is aware of our aggressive and immoral behavior, but somehow, we Americans feel we are exceptional."
For decades Americans have been well programmed by the American culture to cheer their American military machine that can do no wrong. After all, those we kill deserve it because they're trying to kill us, right?
The so-called soldiers on the other side are just civilians trying to protect their families.
Our soldiers are not heroes, they are murderers. That's what they are. All the reverential talk of honor and duty and courage is a cover up. When you see a veteran, do not say, "Thank you for your service."
Instead ask, "How many kids did you murder?"
Obama remained silent regarding the war on Yemen in order to placate the Saudis, who were enraged (and deeply threatened) by the Iran deal the Obama administration had brokered.
Prior to the proxy war in Yemen, I recall having read numerous articles from independent journalists explaining how Yemen was basically already a subsistence level country and war would condemn millions to death via poverty and hunger.
Now we read that millions are on the verge of starvation.
A country already close to stone-age is now officially stone-age.
Wow. Let the record show that this was not a surprise to anyone.
The Saudis are one of our closest allies.
As they say, “birds of a feather...”
3
I am glad the NYT Editorial aboard is addressing this appalling and inhumane slaughter of women and children in Yemen. The Saudis may be incompetent but the evidence clearly shows they intentionally attack civilian sites killing hundreds of innocents, while also trying to stop food supplies to the starving and preventing effective treatment of the massive cholera epidemic. Pressure must be put on the Trump administration to end the sale of military weapons to the Saudi barbarians. We need more reporting and effective commentary on this shameful slaughter. Thank you.
11
@Tom Barrett
"Pressure must be put on the Trump administration to end the sale of military weapons to the Saudi barbarians."
It's the global military-industrial complex that needs the pressure. They've been the cheerleaders of terrorism since their market declined after World War 2.
Yet one more shameful, foolish, destructive, destabilizing, inhumane involvement by the US in a proxy war, in which, this time, we outsource our values and principles to that paragon of democracy and justice, Saudi Arabia.
The result: children blown up by bombs made in the U.S, a humanitarian disaster, and no end to the conflict in sight.
The U.S. needs an entirely new Middle East policy that we can pursue while still being able to look at ourselves in the mirror without flinching.
6
Besides bombs and medical drugs are all that the world looks for from the US. As for "US aid," what fraction of it is reserved for weapons purchases anyway? More like taxpayer aid for the weapons industry.
6
First, it is a war. Tens, or even hundreds, of civilian casualties are but a drop in a bucket compared to the thousands of civilians killed in each bombing raid over Europe or Japan in WW2.
Second, it is a war started by the Iran-backed rebels who attempted to overthrow the legitimate government of Yemen. If they want the killing to stop, all they have to do is give up and leave. If they want the killing to lessen, all they have to do is stop using civilian areas as shields for their activities.
1
Why are US bombs killing civilians in Yemen? The same reason President Obama used drones to kill civilians in Pakistan: Terrorists. Iran is intent on installing a friendly government on Saudi Arabia's border. This will not happen. We wouldn't allow it on our border, and neither will Saudi Arabia. Whatever your politics, if you want to stop the torture of the Yemeni people, you will get behind efforts to end this war expeditiously. And that means Iran out of Yemen. Efforts to restrain the forces allied against Iran, as the editorial board of the Times is doing, only serve to prolong this nightmare.
1
@Epistemology
"Why are US bombs killing civilians in Yemen? The same reason President Obama used drones to kill civilians in Pakistan: Terrorists."
The US military are the real terrorists. 90% of drone kills are civilians.
Now That's terrorism.
1
@Fourteen
You fault Obama as being a terrorist? The world would not be a better place without the US. Ask the Uyghurs. Or ask the Iranian women.
1
We are the largest arms dealer in the world.Our munitions kill people all over the world so the question Why Yemen could be asked elsewhere. We could believe our arms only kill the bad guys but that would be a stretch. We can't regulate how our handguns are used but we should regulate billion dollar arm sales to insure only bad guys meet the business end of our weopons.
5
The Saudi Coalition is committing war crimes. It is responsible for creating in Yemen what the UN has described as the largest and most grievous humanitarian disaster in the world today. The US "provides operational, logistical and intelligence support to the coalition". Let's flesh that out a bit... The US is refueling in mid flight the Saudi planes that drop these bombs.It also provides satellite intelligence etc... for targeting. (Are US pilots being used in Saudi planes? It wouldn't be the first time.) Also if previous experience is any indication US forces are embedded on the ground with Saudi troops in "advisory roles" (See Vietnam) Stop dissembling. The US is the most important part of the so-called "Saudi Coalition". The US does not "risk complicity" in war crimes. It is already in this thing up to its neck and by virtue of its key parternship/enabling role with the Saudi's in this bloody horror shares with the Saudi's responsibility for all these war crimes.
13
I pray for a day when our foreign policy is driven by principle, empathy, and concern for the wellbeing of everyone on our planet, instead of what we have, which is one driven by greed, ignorance, and short-term political gain: it is just morally bankrupt that arms merchants bankrolling election campaigns can freely sell the instruments of mass destruction to an ugly, tyrannical, and primitive regime. It is equally appalling that this family of murderous, human rights-violating, and petty tyrants is simultaneously lionized by this and previous U.S. administrations, solely because it kowtows to our (warped) foreign policy objectives while larding out billions in contracts to the right individuals and industries (beyond weaponry). MBS's recent U.S. visit is a prime example: the fawning and groveling towards this murderer left me cringing in embarrassment and shame.
So while this op-ed is laudable, it addresses but the latest war crime we are abetting amongst countless others: from Afghanistan to Libya and over successive U.S. Presidencies in both parties, we have wreaked sheer mayhem at a cost of countless lives and trillions of our tax dollars, and all with zero benefit to our general populace (but fantastic profits for the oligarchy and the politicians they own). Why don't we start electing leaders who will make all of this depravity a relic of history and set a course instead that is both rational for the 99% and humane and worthy for the entire human race?
8
@Ric Fouad thank you for this spot on comment.
1
The Times position on Yemen is welcomed but very little and very late. First of all, Suadi involvement in Yemen goes back years. This has always been a factionalized country and the Saudi Royal family has sided with various factions many times.
Secondly, the civil war in Yemen has been in the past and is now a domestic affair with the Houthi tribal groups from the north pitted against a Saudi puppet ruler in the south.
While there is evidence of some small arms smuggling from Iran, this is not, and has never been a proxy war between Iran and Saudi Arabia. Iran is constantly brought up as if it somehow excuses the war crimes being committed by the Saudi's.
And the US involvement has been more than as a weapons supplier. Our air traffic control has guided Saudi jets to their targets and our air tankers have refueled them to increase their lethal assaults on civilians.
The Saudi's have bombed schools, hospitals, day care centers, clinics, water plants and electrical facilities-all civilian targets and all are war crimes.
They have violated international law because we value Saudi dollars for weapons more than human rights or international law, and they know this.
American values have been put up for sale and the Saudi's can pay the going price. The result? The US is complicit in clear and obvious war crimes.
And let's not leave out our secret forces on the ground in Yemen. Yes, there's much more to this atrocity than this bloody bombing campaign.
8
Houthis are very good at distracting the media from their war crimes. It's not fair to blame Saudi-led coalition for their crimes. We know that Houthis are the only ones who will get benefits from cutting weapon deals because it means they get to take more lands, use kids as shields, and kill more civilians.
1
And we should allow Iran to support these Shiite rebels with impunity? We need to stop Iran from funding and providing military support that is leading to the deaths of thousands of innocent civilians and displacement of millions of refugees. Time to cripple Iran with economic sanctions!
While we close our borders to these millions of refugees of war (in which we too are complicit) millions of economic refugees are allowed to scamper across our borders. And we allow them to live and work in the US while we deny true political refugees sanctity in our great country. Time for bipartisan immigration reform!
1
Mr/Ms Editor,there is nothing new.America is the only super power in the world and has resources and energy to help those who toe its line.I am sure you are aware what America did in the last 70 years post WW II.Wherever there is a conflict it intervenes and helps those supported by it ,whether right or wrong.
Well of course. The prime motivator of Americans is money, and American businesses make a fortune selling weapons of all kinds to foreigners of all kinds. The only qualifications needed to buy the arms paid for and manufactured by our humongous defense budget is the ability to pay for them.
8
Thank you for this article. But why has it taken so long for mainstream news media to report on the US’s role enabling Saudi Arabia? An independent news source was reporting on this and the humanitarian crisis in Yemen two years ago.
Our country is complicit in this horror. In addition to selling them bombs, our military was (and I presume still is) refueling Saudi planes mid flight so they can reach their targets in Yemen. This needed to end long ago.
12
What does Trump care about the carnage in Yemen? In his eye it’s Muslims killing Muslims, between Yemeni government forces, backed by the Saudi-led coalition and the rebel Houthi movement, backed by Iran.
He only stands by those with deep pockets. The Saudis reach out to Trump with open arms and wallet and he loves it. His family, his cronies and donors in the arms industry benefit hugely from the Saudi spending spree under Crown Prince, Mohamad bin Salman, who wants to portray himself as an ambitious and autocratic reformer. But bin Salman's lack of geopolitical experience, patience and acumen has plunged the region from Qatar to Yemen into turmoil, with Trump’s blessing, all because of Iran.
5
@J. von Hettlingen actually because of weapons sales and oil
2
"the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must." Thucydides
That's more or less why, and why it will happen again, in another far flung part of the globe, again and again.
3
Name me one war in the last 100 years where civilians were not bombed and killed. Baghdad, Hiroshima, Dresden, Tokyo, London, shelling of Paris in WW1, etc. Or otherwise collateral damage.
There are no clean wars that exclude civilian harm.
8
@RM and your point? War is encouraged by whom? For what reason the trumpet call for war? Profit? An ideal? Perhaps revenge or a sadistic rage. War is a mental illness; learn to control the brutal urges to deploy and destroy, to not hand the instruments of destruction to the mentally ill. So clean your act up Warrior and you will feel better about your cause, at the least by not rationalizing for the destruction of civilian life.
4
@John Walker
The point is, surgical strike bombing that avoids deaths by non combatants is a myth. Civilians are always at risk in a war. To avoid such casualties, the war itself must be avoided.
Thank you for referring to the bombing of Yemen for what it is: "criminal carnage".
Although the U.S. and its allies are firmly to blame, both for supplying the Saudis and for downplaying the atrocities, it is the Saudis who should be condemned first and foremost for conducting a Reign of Terror.
But the chance of any concerted action against Saudi Arabia is as remote today as it was following 9/11 and numerous subsequent Saudi-led atrocities. Why? Because the Saudis have bribed Western politicians and bought Western governments. It's as simple as that. Apart from an occasional conscientious Editorial nothing will actually get done to prevent further Saudi atrocities.
74
Follow the money. It's all about lining the pockets of defense contractors, who are more than willing to brush a few million crumbs in the direction of the politicians who make these sales possible.
43
I have always wondered why westerners' governments, and more usually, why the establishment is so unwilling to condemn Saudi Arabia's crimes. This opinion is an oasis in an arid wasteland of blindness about this country. Thank you.
On the other hand, when it comes to Russia or Iran, which crimes are far less serious, the establishment unleashes terrible condemnation.
The question should more be : "Why are we allied to Saudi Arabia, even though they are our worst enemy?"
55
This article is about the atrocities of war; that civilians are accidentally targeted. The points you raise are outside the scope of the article.
@Baptiste
The Saudi's are not our "worst enemy" as you state. They are a strong defense against Iran's attempt to control the Mideast. It still is, and will always be " the enemy of my enemy is my friend"
@Baptiste Iranian and Russian transgressions "less serious"? Are we pretending the Iranian and Russian backed Assad regime atrocities in Syria didn't happen? And I question the certainty of your implication that Saudi Arabia is a worse enemy to the US than Iran. Both relationships are problematic. Iran has been pursuing an expansionist strategy in the region and Yemen is clearly a proxy conflict between Iran and Saudi Arabia. While Saudi tactics may deserve condemnation I believe this article should have gone deeper into Iran's role in this conflict.
Because Trump's son-in-law and his friends are setting our foreign policy in the Middle East after gutting the State Department , resulting in our country being run like a banana republic out of the executive office where family and friends are given top security clearance to make deals with foreign countries? What is our Congress doing besides collecting paychecks and accepting campaign money to ensure they keep collecting paychecks and perks?
59
@John Reynolds John my main comment submitted long before my reply RL (below yours) gave more details about the Trump family's embrace of the Saudis. That submission has not appeared but you take care of that subject very well.
Surreal isn't it that the man who wants no Muslims in America embraces members of the Saudi royal family. Reason obvious: Saudi money.
Larry L.
3
Trump is not likely to lean on Saudi Arabia. And why is that?
"Trump Jr. and Other Aides Met With Gulf Emissary Offering Help to Win Election"
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/19/us/politics/trump-jr-saudi-uae-nader-...
"How Two Gulf Monarchies Sought to Influence the White House"
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/21/us/politics/george-nader-elliott-broi...
Did Cohen, Broidy Cover Up Trump Affair With Another Playboy Model?
https://www.newsweek.com/cohen-broidy-trump-affair-playboy-975383
27
It’s a reminder of how our standards of proper comportment in war are so unique in a world that for decades has been far less concerned with collateral damage than we. It’s said that immense planning goes on to target our drone strikes on bad guys, to limit that undesired collateral damage -- even when we occasionally get either the balance or the intelligence wrong. It’s an expensive proposition to conduct war so carefully, which explains in part why we spend so much more on our military than others.
But the notion that we bear responsibility for the inadequacies or willful thoughtlessness of Saudi war pilots is unreasonable. While Saudi Arabia’s explicit interests in Yemen have a ghost of overlap with our own interests in resisting Iran and its proxies, we’re nevertheless not conducting that war and wouldn’t be in Yemen materially ourselves for a RAFT of Persian rugs. We shouldn’t be held responsible for the unwillingness of Saudis to train their warriors as thoroughly as we train ours. Yet, not that many nations build warplanes or the missiles they fire, and without our willingness to arm allies with such weapons they’d still be fighting and killing innocents, but doing so with spears and axes, possibly inflicting at least as much bloody mayhem.
If we were to limit how we help allies in that part of the world with ordnance who have decidedly different views about the importance of human life generally and the need to limit collateral damage as assiduously as we do, …
1
… then we’d have few allies and what help we could provide wouldn’t be worth much.
If the editors have a problem with Saudi carelessness, then they should take it up with the Saudis instead of using that carelessness as a platform for self-interestedly attacking the Trump administration.
1
@Richard Luettgen RL, tell me more about the USA's different view of human life. What country is, in the end, responsible for the greatest loss of Middle Eastern lives?
Don't tell me it was the Saudis or Iran. Then tell me how many lives once owned by American military have been lost, not only those lost in combat but those lost back home by taking their own lives.
Assiduously, good word but not one I associate with the US in Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan.
Citizen US SE
36
@Richard Luettgen This kind of derailed thinking has over the years contributed and still does to endless killing of civilians. As long as this goes on far from home, far from Ground Zero, the US and its allies seem to lack any compassion for the suffering of innumerable innocents in foreign lands. And it is is allowed to go on unpunished. Soon countless destitute Yemen refugees -their country and means of living destroyed- wil be arriving on the European shores.
6
Right and thank you.
12
Both sides in this conflict, like the one in Syria, bear responsibility for the atrocities. But, it is Saudi Arabia the one that is causing more carnage because of its Air Force, and the U.S. support. The U.S. should stop all support to Saudi Arabia, and ask for a ceasefire monitored by the U.N. The U.N. Security Council should meet and propose a cease fire immediately.
33
Collateral damage. Happens in every war. Look it up.
3
@Steve Collateral damage is a nice way to say murder. Its simply murder.
3
@Steve
What war? Is there a US-declared war in Yemen?
3
@Steve
"Collateral damage. Happens in every war. Look it up."
90% of drone kills are civilians. The actual target is the collateral damage.
Look it up, then look up.
1
This has gone on for a long time, as has the US policy of signature strikes
From Foreign Policy
Obama’s Most Dangerous Drone Tactic Is Here to Stay
From Yemen to Somalia, the White House has gone back to bombing men it can’t confirm are militants — potentially leaving innocents trapped in the crossfire.
From Yemen to Somalia, the White House has gone back to bombing men it can’t confirm are militants — potentially leaving innocents trapped in the crossfire.
By Dan De Luce, Paul McLeary | April 5, 2016, 8:53 PM
In May 2013, President Barack Obama’s aides indicated that they were prepared to phase out the most controversial element of the administration’s drone war: so-called “signature strikes” against military-age men on battlefields around the world that took place even if American officials didn’t know who the targets were — or if they were actively plotting against the United States.
The tactic had sparked fierce criticism from human rights groups and some lawmakers, who said it effectively gave the CIA carte blanche to bomb groups of men in countries ranging from Yemen to Pakistan simply because of where they lived and whether they showed any behavior commonly associated with militants. Opponents argued that the strikes were certain to kill innocents given that U.S. officials knew so little about who they were targeting and had no concrete way of identifying the dead afterward.
https://foreignpolicy.com/2016/04/05/obamas-most-dangerous-drone-tactic-...
15
@Talesofgenji
"From Yemen to Somalia, the White House has gone back to bombing men it can’t confirm are militants — potentially leaving innocents trapped in the crossfire."
Reports say that 90% of drone kills are civilians, which means that drone strikes are terrorist strikes and war crimes:
https://tinyurl.com/yasev7wh
We've been selling weaponry of every conceivable type, missiles, planes, guns, etc. to foreign governments a lot longer than this 75 year old.
We do it in the name of "National Security", and of course, "Money". Yemen is just another unfortunate country that's targeted by another of our allies, Saudi Arabia. We're also killing civilians directly and indirectly in Afghanistan, and Syria.
It just goes on and on. This country is nothing more than another arms dealer. Yemen civilians in the criossfire this year, next year it will be some other poor country.
It never ends.
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@cherrylog754 We also sell arms for local influence abroad (which is in addition to National Security) and because arms "age". It's not lost on arms manufacturers and the U.S. Government that weaponry has a shelf life...so we (unfortunately) have to use it or sell it (so someone else uses it.) Loss Loss.
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I don’t know if we will have many comments. Most people in US don’t realize what we do and how we operate in other countries. It doesn’t matter and life just goes on.
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