Sierra Club policy since 1986 has opposed nuclear weapons deployment in space.
https://www.sierraclub.org/policy/nuclear/nuclear-weapons
2
I find it deeply troubling that the editors of The New York Times are choosing to write about this kind of distraction - a topic which is important but hardly urgent - while they refuse or "fail" to publish any reference to the fact that the Australian national broadcaster, the Australian Broadcasting Corporation, has published a report that senior Australian government officials have disclosed that the Trump administration is planning an attack on Iranian nuclear facilities that may take place within a month: http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-07-27/donald-trump-may-be-prepared-to-st...
How can this be? The US Secretary of Defence Jim Mattis has been publicly questioned about the report - and, of course, tried to divert the question by saying that he has no idea where the journalists reporting the story got their information - but that, of course, is not a denial. The point of all information leaks is that the people responsible for keeping the information secret don't know how it leaked.
Seriously, what is going on? The ABC is one of the most highly respected independent news organisations on the planet - more independent and reliable than ANY American news organisation - it's like PBS on the steroids of government funding. Nothing that appears in the ABC citing senior national government officials is likely to be unreliable.
So leave this speculative stuff for some other time. Trump is about to launch a nuclear attack on Iran. Report it!
2
Sorry, NYT, I can't bring myself to even read this garbage. It's all about $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$, lots of it, and the sooner we stop trying to micro-anylize everything to death and realize that, we can keep our eyes on the prize. What prize is that? Getting back to being, not white America, but the real melting pot where even the pickle guy can get the hot dame ("Crossing Delancy").
11
Could we start be fixing our aging GOS system? There is more danger from this problem than there is from a space war. John Garamendi has introduced legislation addressing this. Congress however isn’t acting to move it through the House.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2018-07-25/the-world-economy-run...
8
SQUIRREL!!!!!!
11
I'm looking forward to civilization being reduced to the pre Space age situation. When all of the space junk begins to destroy all of the satellites and is accelerated by the first space War we will be back in that era. The true stupidity of Trumps proposals will be seen. but it will be nice people will begin to talk to each other at breakfast not have their little cell phones in their hands. The age of the neo-luddite will reign supreme
7
Trumps been in space for at least the past 40 years.
F3
13
It makes sense that this president, with such a vacuum between his ears, would start our own fleet of space cadets? And of course it will be stupidly expensive, but hey - that's what trillion dollar deficits are for.
24
Brilliant. Can someone please educate this president, whose third grade reading and writing skills are evident for all to see, so we can avoid another costly and dangerous arms war?
13
Both the Air Force and the Navy have had space commands since the 80s. There have been many "black budget" programs and developments since, of which, we can be sure, the traitor has no clue. A British hacker uncovered a list of "non-terrestrial officers" back in the days of dial-up modems and non-passsword-protected NASA computers. You can be sure our "inside government" has been VERY busy over the years, in that "domain". We'll never know what hardware developments there have been, but rest assured this "space force" mess is most likely coming from the military-industrial contractors, who need more tax dollars to "float their boats", and they have such a willing dupe to do their bidding.
9
More insanity from the Jack D. Rippers and Major Kongs in our society. It's been almost 30 years since the George Bush 1 New World order that never was. It's just been a broken record of Deja Vu all over and over again, here's the new boss the same as the old boss, the military industrial machine that benefits a few in the global arms and perpetual warfare trade and that impoverishes everyone else.
You'd think smart people at the top in our society would see the big picture and move toward cross border global cooperation and collaboration that would result in constructive cross cultural intercourse and projects in science, technology, energy and agriculture, medicine etc. Sharing the wealth but nope, the greedy want all the marbles for their tribe alone.
Moving perpetual warfare into outer space won't end well for humanity.
17
The only thing that makes Trump matter is the monomaniacal collection of nitwits who think he is God, or the second coming of Jesus, or some other magical figure who can get away with anything, whom the Congress chose to arm up with assault weapons to constitute an unregulated militia to deter foreign invasion of the US. This anarchistic collection of ignoramuses now has Congresscritters themselves slithering down crevices looking for cover.
22
Dear Editorial Board,
Oh right. Lah-dee-dah, lah-dee-dah! Everything will be fine. Not to worry.
Space is for everyone and everyone is peace loving. No terrorism up there. No fear of Russian expansionism. Ukraine type incursions only happen on earth. Russia would never think of doing anything up there. Sputnik was an aberration. So they put that thing up before we ever thought about doing anything like it. So what!
And Chinese aggression in cyberspace only happens on earth. Yup, see no evil, speak no evil, prepare for no evil. Wear those rose colored glasses. Trump is nuts. Trump is crazy. Don't listen to him.
Lah-dee-dah. Lah-dee-dah.
6
This concept of direct conflict is space is so absurd that it hardly deserves mentioning. A direct attack on American satellites would be such an overt provocation, it would only reflect a point of hostility that had already reached a boiling point. It is far more likely that an offensive on a small naval unit or a cyber attack on military installations would spark a broader ground/nuclear war. After that, anything in space would be a distant afterthought. Plus, a chance for error is also a thousand times greater. I thought is was ridiculous back during the Reagan era and my perspective hasn’t changed. Sorry R2D2, you won’t see any action in our century.
1
NYTimes, you guys are crazy. If you recall the proposed Star Wars effect that Ronald Reagan did. It scared the pants of the Soviets at the time and helped bring them to the negotiation table with the fall of their version of Communism. Sometimes you have to rachet up the rhetoric to get some results.
3
Could we place him in a capsule and send him out there?
23
I've got it! Congress can declare Donald Trump a 5 star General and then vote to have him lead the charge for the the outer space army. We can then send him out on the first rocket. Will Congress do that - pleeeeeezze!!!!
16
Trump truly is the cartoon president of the new century.
12
"Mr. Trump ought to be thinking bigger." Good luck on that one. If Trump thinks bigger about space, he'll want a space wall to keep out illegal aliens.
13
buy all means let's expand human murder and greed!
5
His priorities are out of wack.
3
Does anyone remember Pigs in Space from the Muppet Show? Captain Link Hearthrob looks uncannily like the Commander in Chief:
https://goo.gl/images/AwNRsG
13
NYT Editorial Board:
"Rather than leaping to a vast new military bureaucracy, Mr. Trump might consider starting with a precise understanding of what is needed for ..."
That's rich. NYT EB pleading politely for Mr Trump's "precise understanding".
Hey, Earth to NYT EB, your space mission is a great success ... You're way way out there!!!
3
Can we send him there?
Also add McConnel, Ryan, Rand, Burr, Nunes, Gorsuch,....
14
Time for Klaatu to pay us a visit.
2
@david sabbagh Klaatu and his brethren have been ignored. What did you expect? We're just humans, "victims of the insane".
1
Mars will pay for it.
14
Better in orbit than on earth. It’s a brilliant concept—move war away from human populations. The only downside is disposing of the junk in space once it’s all over. Maybe we can send the illegals up there while they’re waiting for their case to be called.
2
The extraterrestrial arms race is just another tin-foil hat
idea Trump hatched to distract the world from his demented
Russia-connected Presidency. Outer space for "peaceful purposes"? Past time now to stick Trump atop some missile
and rocket him into the wild blue yonder.
8
Correction: "Space in Trump"
Oh right. Lah-dee-dah, lah-dee-dah! Everything will be fine. Not to worry. Space is for everyone and everyone is peace loving. No terrorism up there. No fear of Russian expansionism. Ukraine type incursions only happen on earth. Russia would never think of doing anything up there. Sputnik was an aberration. So they put that thing up before we ever thought about doing anything like it. So what. And Chinese aggression in cyberspace only happens on earth. Yup, see no evil, speak no evil, prepare for no evil. Wear those rose colored glasses. Trump is nuts. Trump is crazy. Don't listen to him. Lah-dee-dah. Lah-dee-dah.
2
I have a simple solution : Make Trump the Captain and Commander of Space Force 1 (any rocket will do) and, after a big party and plenty of glad-handing, send him on a one-way mission to destroy the imaginary Death Star currently hiding behind the Moon or Mars or the Sun or wherever.
In Space, the bonespurs won't matter.
21
I would vote for it under one condition that they send the demagogue Trump first up, with a eternal orbit in outer space.
10
China perfects satellite kill technology and you long for “strategic patience” as in do nothing and wait to be floored by the news China owns low-Earth orbit.
I think this is why the NYT editorial board doesn’t make defense policy.
3
...got sucked in by the "Trump in Space" headline. Thought "now there's a Trump initiative I can vote for... when does he leave?" I quickly realized it's simply The Orange Avenger playing one form or another of cowboys and Indians... Bang!Bang!Zap!Zap!
In real life, dealing with near-Earth space has become a critical concern, albeit not in the sense of Star Wars. At some point in the near future, the world is going to have to systematize and clear out thousands of articles of "space junk" which threaten further development of near-Earth systems (such as weather and scientific satellites).
The problem is complex and has little to do with the "male anxieties" of the incompetent Trump universe... better shelved until the current aberration is removed (with any kind of luck soon, and to a higher plane appropriate for celestial angels of the winged sort).
6
And we all thought his border wall idea is stupid. Maybe we should beging planning a space wall - in case there are aliens up there, we certainly don't want them immigrating in - who knows what color they might be?
5
Wherever Man goes there will be fighting. The two majority languages in the Americas, English and Spanish, reflect the two European nations that fought over the New World. There were others but England and Spain were the most successful. Extrapolating this trend means continual struggle and conflict as the human race begins the colonization of the Solar System. The main contenders will be the US, Russia, China, India and the EU. The race to put human beings on Mars has already started. SpaceX, Blue Origin and the ULA are the three domestic competitors.
2
Didn't Ronald Reagan propose a space military program to shorten the distance and the drag that occurs in the atmosphere for missiles to reach their destination in a relatively short time?
2
I wonder how many recognized Chiara Ghigliazza's excellent illustration as a parody of the opening of the 60s tv-series Lost in Space.
There is an episode where John Robinson's cord attaching him to the spaceship breaks and he is cast off into space. Any chance that can happen again ...?
2
Lots of mockery for the idea of a space force, but little appreciation for the future. The exploitation of the resources of the rest of the solar system is within our reach with current and about to be developed technology. We are at the beginning of a new era of expanded wealth and you better believe that others will want to keep it all for themselves. Not to mention that control of the orbitals means military control of the Earth and an aimed asteroid has more power than our entire nuclear arsenal. Failure to appreciate these facts of life could destroy the US and remove us from existence.
2
@Federalist "others will want to keep it all for themselves"
Ah yes, Space Greed. Fine with me if China finds a solid gold asteroid and puts their little flag on it. What do they do then?
4
Before boldly going where no man has gone before, how about addressing the problems created when too many men and women boldly go out onto our badly-in-need-of-repair roads, bridges and highways? Such a terrestrial initiative would address a real need on planet Earth, and create a bunch of jobs in the process.
13
Perhaps transforming the US into a toxic waste dump is its best defense.
5
This this edict, like all other edicts from Mr. Trump evolve from no public, or policy discussions within the government. Mr. Trump is proud of not revealing his position to our adversaries, but here he reveals a very provocative act. The American military is heavily dependent on space assets. We have more to lose in a space war than our adversaries. Have we been thinking about the high-ground of space? Indeed, we have. There are probably thousands of masters degrees, from the past four decades, in our military colleges discussing this subject. We need to quietly protect our assets. We don’t need a Space Force to do it. This edict is very provocative and reveals more about our intentions, and lowers, rather than raises the defense of our assets.
4
The most important ingredient in this discussion is speculation about what a "Space Force" would consist of.
One item that can be dismissed out of hand is the notion - widespread back during the Cold War - that satellites armed with nuclear weapons would constitute launch platforms against which there could be no defense.
The earthbound nuclear triad makes that notion nonsensical. Among land-, air- and sea-based bomb and missile vehicles, there's more than enough nuclear power for everyone to blow each other up many times over. So why even consider space-based launch platforms and their enormous attendant costs?
Surveillance satellites are another matter altogether. Virtually all scenarios for a nuclear WW III - whether in fiction or published studies - begin with all sides trying to "blind" their opponents' satellite surveillance capabilities.
Intercepting an incoming missile (from wherever launched) is one thing. Shooting down an orbiting satellite is quite another. The latter is relatively easy, but the former takes us back to the old metaphor of trying to hit a bullet with another bullet. (China's successful shoot-down falls into the "latter" category.)
So really, all that's involved in Trump's mythical "Space Force" is a continuation of R & D already in progress: hitting a satellite whose orbital vector and velocity is known in advance.
It's challenging and expensive, but doable without the creation of sixth military bureaucracy. Just put NASA on it.
2
Nothing else consumes energy as lavishly as rocketing things into space. How ironic that we think of making war over a planet we are destroying in the process of constructing weapons.
8
When Gen. Billy Mitchell wanted to create an Air Force as a seprate branch of the military he was met with such opposition that he was court-martialed. There was opposition to the concept of Marines landing on beaches for the Revolutionary War and the use of Special Forces in the 20th century. Drones in the sky and out of sight have changed warfare forever. The Ancient Romans realized that controlling the high ground is strategically priceless. A Space Force is just the next evolution in war fighting. I wish I could reenlist for this.
5
@mrmeat This is absolutely true.
Multi-national "agreements" will never replace military preparedness, because there are 197 independent states and countless groups outside of government control each pursuing their own agendas.
The rationale for replacing military preparation with multinational agreements is akin to replacing the NYPD with having making anyone who enters the city agree to abide by the city's laws... good luck.
If the space force is the going to be the sixth military branch, then the cyber-force should be the seventh.
The only way the human race will eliminate the need for militaries is when the entire human race is subject to a single central authority. If this ever came to pass, then the militaries could be replaced by a less lethal civil force, which would still include the required 7 branches.
1
and as I say with so many of the "devices" that everyone is so in love with, who's going to replace the batteries in these space things when they inevitably go dead? Of course we are as tax-paying citizens. and don't give me the story about "solar panels". They can be easily knocked out also. Not to mention that they cost a fortune... when the power goes off that's the end of civilization as we have come to know and love it... and of course it's really cold in space...
"... who's going to replace the batteries in these space things when they inevitably go dead?"
Satellites are usually powered by solar cells with batteries for energy storage. However, some satellites have relied on nuclear power. Anyway, satellites are commonly replaced.
'... and don't give me the story about "solar panels". They can be easily knocked out also.'
Satellites are not armored, although they could probably be made more robust. Robotic missions could also repair satellites.
"Not to mention that they cost a fortune..."
War is not cheap. If you want to save money, advocate treaties instead of complaining. The editorial does that, so why don't you?
2
It is far more likely that a war will be fought in cyber-space. Yet the dodo in chief doesn't seem to be concerned with that. No, he's more concerned with the known interests of the known industry leaders who are his supporters. They will get richer off this new space force of his and we will all get zilch. Later, when there is an attack on our interconnected computer driven society, he will complain of the "intractable liberals" who dominate silicon valley and wouldn't support his policies. Simply more of the same baloney that he feeds America every day. Personally, I was stuffed full on day 1.
13
Trump is interested in creating chaos and making more money for himself and his family. Nothing else. As soon as we get rid of this lowly meat head the better for all of us. And why isn't that happening? Who is really controlling things?
9
@Nightwood, an interlocked directorship some have numbered at less than 10,000 people.
1
The assumptiom that an international treaty would solve the problem of space warfare is indeed naive. We have had bans on chemical and biological weapons yet Russia has amply demonstrated their capability to use the former while cold war records shows they were ready to use weaponized Marberg virus. Coordinating efforts to centralize airforce, navy & army initiatives under a centralized command structure makes sense but apparently the author's distaste for all things Trump colored this piece.
1
What a stupid waste of effort to commit global suicide.
2
In a few more years the "TCJA" -- the misnamed "Tax Cuts and Jobs Act" of 2017 -- will eliminate any possibility of such an expenditure being enacted into law by Congress, or anything else beyond government-mandated transfer payments from working-poor and middle class taxpayers to major corporations, the very rich, and foreign state treasuries and sovereign wealth funds (tax exempt themselves).
Beggar thyself.
Described in a few words (all that I"m allowed), the United States federal government is bleeding out like any gunshot victim lying in the street. Our fiscally irresponsible patriotic Republican Party shot it. Its leadership convinced itself, incredibly enough, that very low tax rates can, and will, generate much higher revenue streams than moderate tax rates will; and deficits don't matter; and a balanced federal government budget is neither desirable nor necessary. So they cut its throat. Our government spends $3.33-billion dollar per day more than it earns. $1-trillion per year. Indefinitely.
That imbalance eliminates any chance that the four existing branches of the U.S. Armed Forces will be joined by a fifth (this "US Space Corps"). Or that the U.S. military will have money to fight any wars against anyone anywhere -- be it in near Earth orbit or on Terra Firma, for that matter. Taking a hint from Confucius, the "Tax Cuts and Jobs Act of 2017" should be changed to the "Tax Cuts Assuring Supremacy of China and Russia Act", because that's what it is, and does.
8
I'm grateful for this editorial; it symbolizes every wrong done by the Humpty Trumpy we've placed at the top of a corporate nightmare. This proposed assertion -- on behalf of what? -- by the United States of inter-terrestial might would bring nuclear weapons to the universe. It is a perfect expression of our mutant leader's preference for destruction and chaos. He has gone around a bend and because of the power of the office we are going with him.
8
The idea of making an armed militarily force in space is not a smart idea. There would be no way of have an location being under an certain nation control. Battles could happen at any moment because of different space station just getting to closet. If we were to go to war it would be simple to bomb almost any location in the world. The result would be total annihilation
1
"Mr. Trump might consider starting with a precise understanding of what is needed."
So, if I understand this editorial, you're asking President Trump to do something he's never done before?
27
Just awesome. We can't afford decent health care for our citizens, our bridges and roads are crumbling, we've locked up the highest number of people in the world both in sheer numbers and percentage wise, our insatiable appetite for illicit drugs has created narco-states throughout Central and South America and we elect a President who abrogates our treaties, disparages our allies, heaps praise on brutal dictators, and falls on his knees for a thug and murderer who attacks the country he swore to defend. But hey, we got tax cuts for the rich and Neil Gorsuch.
So sure, why not, let's add another couple of trillion more to the deficit for some more exotic weaponry to make our defense contractors even richer under the guise of national defense.
43
The space force is his next reality show distraction. How long do we have to wait before he anchors himself in the day-to-day task of governance? I fear the answer is never as that is one reality he is ill equipped to handle.
16
Trump is anchored in the day to day task of golfing.
3
Stars Wars baby ... Because there's only so much left we can bomb round' here... There's another use for the moon. Beside storing nuclear waste, garbage in general. Or a way station on the way to Mars. We can also test the new generation of nukes & space weapons.
And paying for it, because the trillion dollars a year we're spending now isn't enough, we'll end Medicare all together; stop giving federal aid to schools; privatize SS, sell all the national parks, open up to oil & gas every coastline except the one near Mara LoCo, of course; let all the infrastructure go to pieces ................. but we'll be able to fight those mean Socialist - Commie Aliens when they come.
15
I wish I could hop on my personal space ship for a weekend on the lunar north pole...but wait! our planet is slowly disintegrating and all the hu-mans are going to die. This scenario has occurred several times over the past few hundred million years, before it was various dinosaur groups or trees or worms and now it is us. No one off planet cares. Indeed our footprint is so nominal we are not a speck dust in the scheme of things, unless of course you are God (a product of our selfish invention). Where can one go to get away from it all?
Clay Sorrough
13
This sixth mass-extinction in the paleo-geological history of this planet will be recorded in the strata of chemical and radiological residues a single species of animal will leave behind.
2
Trump & Co. launched in SPAAACE,YES!! Best Reality-show ever.
8
A "space" force is not necessary as "climate change" will have destroyed us first.
That said, wittle Donnie still wants his space force and his big military parade with guns and weapons and everything...and a double scoop of ice cream for dinner.
More red meat for his base, I only wait for the end of his presidency with one question: Will we be able to correct/reverse all the damage that wittle Donnie did? I suppose this is our fault for electing a "not so bright" child as president.
Okay, Saturday...what's the next new outrage?
24
@Gaucho54, every lost day is gathered momentum towards collapse.
The world sure isn't going to save itself be sending people who have too many children back to where they were born.
2
@Gaucho54 There is much irony in the traitor grudgingly having to accept "rocket science" as a part of his Space Rangers fantasy, while simultaneously refusing to accept "Earth science" in his absurd and deranged dismissal of climate change.
3
Do people with bone spurs like Donald trump will be able to serve in the Space Force? After all there is no gravity in space.
18
Trump is probably talking about MySpace.
16
Can we send Trump to space? Really? Please.
11
Since his cowardly dishonorable and unpatriotic German grandfather fled to the United States in order to avoid criminal prosecution for dodging the German Bavarian military draft no member of the House of Trump has ever been drafted or volunteered to wear the military uniform of any American armed force. President Bone Spurs aka Golfheart will not be in space nor will any of his spawn infect outer space.
24
How about if instead we just send Trump into space to explore the feasibility of this Space Force and maybe build a hotel on the moon preferably without any more plan to bring him back than his zero tolerance policy had to return immigrant children to their parents? The guy can't keep track of 3000 kids and their parents yet Fedex, UPS, USPS, etc., keep track and deliver likely more than a billion items each day with less than a 1% error rate. This self proclaimed winner is the biggest loser ever. It's amazing he can even find Fox News on TV.
13
Excuse me but didn't our country sign an international agreement not to militarize space? Another stupid and hugely expensive idea from a space cadet -- albeit one with bone spurs -- who ignores our crumbling infrastructure, inadequate education spending and balooning deficit. Where are the adults in charge of adult day care at the White House?
17
I think Trump saw the pictures of Kim at his desk on the tarmac, watching the missile launch shoot into the sky, and he got jealous.
8
"Congress is making the situation worse by ordering the Pentagon, in the 2019 defense bill, to begin work on a space-based missile interceptor that experts say is provocative, technically infeasible and prohibitively expensive."
So Congress can find the money to waste on something that is technically infeasible, but unwilling to spend money on universal healthcare? Priorities, people!
6
@mariamsaunders Not to mention the $12 BILLION that is "urgently" needed support Agribusiness's suddenly slumping fortunes, as a result of the traitor's "trade war". We'll just print more!
1
I was watching a program just the other day about about much space debris (of all sorts including satellites and the like) are spinning about in space.
There is an entire section of the military that is watching/tracking all of that debris, and trying to figure out if one is going to crash into the other. At any point, if one of them does, it could cause a chain reaction (as far as trajectory) where essentially everything crashes into everything else creating millions of particles.
That would essentially make the space around the earth not navigable for anything or anyone, while wiping out all satellites and communication.
Of course, we should militarize space now ...
5
The much larger threat to our national security isn't in outer space, it's in cyberspace. For over 200 hundred years, our nation has enjoyed the security of having 2 oceans between us and our war-time enemies. We fought on the winning side in two world wars with virtually no threat to the homeland.
In cyberspace, the world is flat, and our war-time enemies are only seconds away. In fact, we know they are actively present within our electronic infrastructure. So if we need a 6th branch of the armed services, it should be the Cyber Command, not the Space Cadets. We could pull all cyber warfare and defense efforts from the 5 branches into a single, cohesive force. That's a much more immediate need than fighting a war in space.
15
War in space? Wow we have the largest military already and our extracurricular missions/wars have been hopeless and futile only causing more misery for those in the way. More stupidity piled atop idiocy.
6
Just give him some GI Joe dolls and call it a day.
10
This editorial reads like a void. Solid debatable matter is absent. Are you guys aliens on a mission to tweak earthlings?
2
Perfect! They have found another way for the Military Industrial Complex to suck trillions out of the treasury. That's all this is. And Trump is just the tool to propose it. Useful Idiot!
11
Endless STUPIDITY. Going where no idiot has gone before!
7
You forgot about the idiot who did go before: that "towering intellect" named Ronald Reagan. Edward Teller intimidated Ronnie into throwing tons of money at the Star Wars debacle.
I know not a few scientists and engineers who were thrilled to suck on the Treasury even though they knew it was a boondoggle. So, I'm sure, did Teller; although he wasn't about to fess up.
So now we have another "towering intellect" who's taking us down that same primrose path.
2
We don’t need a “space command” because we already have one.
Trump is obviously unaware of The United States Space Force, which has been around since the 1980s. It’s part of the Air Force and it’s a very big department. And just because Trump was unaware of its existence doesn’t mean he gets to waste our taxpayer dollars creating an all-new duplicate department. Trump would be better off fully funding the existing USSF.
Trump and the Republicans just added $80 billion to the DoD budget (who knows how much to the other defense and homeland security agencies) and that was BEFORE he floated this space force plan.
How much more can we spend on defense before we send our economy into the toilet?
We aren't even doing a good job dealing with the refugee crisis on our doorstep, or cyber attacks. Our interventions in the Middle East and Afghanistan and Africa are becoming never-ending black holes draining our country of funds we ought to spending on health care, creating good jobs, infrastructure, and education.
Where does this end? That it is not sustainable should be obvious to everyone with a brain.
1
Oh, but think of the money to be made! While our roads, schools, bridges and dams rot into the ground, while our children get a third-rate education and graduate from college with so much debt they can hardly afford to live. But think of those glorious profits!
3
Our military budget is huge, much bigger than any other country's. And corporations fight for every contract. The new Space Force will be very lucrative for someone in the field of technology.
In the arms race now headed for the beyond other countries have their own strategic plans. As you mention China blew up one of their satellites to show their defensive capabilities. Quite a few countries are planning to put bases on the moon. Russian rockets have been the gold standard for many years.
Try to imagine someone out there observing this king of the hill contest among earthlings:
They would have observed a pristine planet being polluted, and now spending its resources on polluting the surrounding space. They would have seen warfare, once the province of kings and their armies, morph into robotic weapons capable of killing large swaths of the population at the touch of a button.
They would say, what are they doing? Why are they killing themselves and their planet?
You mention new satellite weapons to be bought, which will greatly enrich someone in the tech field. How much better to agree a truce with China and Russia ending space as a battlefield and spend that money on humanity. Make it a milestone on the way to sharing our resources as a step toward a more peaceful earth.
It must stop. If not now, when?
2
A friend of mine once said while we were discussing the state of the human race on Earth that she had hope because we could always find another planet to live on. My reaction then and now, which my friend is also come around you, is to fear that we will find a way to go through the universe polluting one planet after another as we fail to take care of the planet we're living on. If we seal ourselves onto this planet because of our own ineptitude and lack of foresight, perhaps that will not be a bad thing.
5
There’s only so much stuff I can worry about. Let rich people do what they want. They’re going to, anyway.
1
I believe the idea is to build a wall up there. Genius!
2
I have bad news for anyone wishing to place weapons in orbit.
There is a very simple anti-weapon, which is a satellite (or several) filled with nuts and bolts and old car parts, rigged to blow itself up in orbit. That would create a wide belt of unavoidable debris that would hit any traversing satellite like a load of heavy buckshot.
Of course, that would be the end of satellites in general. No more weather monitoring, no more satellite communication. No more launches to explore the solar system or farther out.
Knowing this already, everyone except Trump is wise enough to keep outer space neutral.
2
We all know Trump knows not what he talks about, but at least we should keep the Air Force in charge until sanity returns after he is gone.
Yes and right about that time this planet will be shaken to its knees by violent weather patterns erupting from every corner placing us back about two centuries. Buggy whips may be stock worth looking at.
Since the New Space Force will operate in a weightless state Trumph's heel spurs, which kept him from serving in the Army, will not be a problem since no marching will be necessary.
2
Yes indeed, this is what we get for having a space cadet for a president.
How will he dominate space? It takes science, the same science he derides on climate change!
1
Imagine what one more year of an unconstrained Trump rule will do to the future of humanity. It’s not just his ignorance of law and science and normal manners or his obsequiousness to Putin or his denunciation of anything Obama. It’s war! War among European nations as NATO collapses, war on the environment, war on the poor, sick, children, women, war on non-whites, war in the Pacific are all emerging from Trump’s chaos. Now the planet? The jolly sociopath wants a “Space Force”. Weaponize space and cancel the future? Sounds like a moneymaker!
Can humanity survive one more year of Trump? Some think that’s extreme. What’s he done that’s not repairable? To them: want to find out? Why?
3
My takeaway from this editorial is that the NY Times Editorial Board is colluding with Putin to steal an ability to defend ourselves from America. If there's an innocent explanation to this collusion, it can only be that the Editorial Board is reflexively against anything that Trump says or does.
1
Another bright shiny object to distract — except this one is literal. Go for it only if Trump commits to being on the first flight of the Space Force. Paint his name on the side and he'll be there.
I love the illustration!
1
I can’t believe that The Time’s editors are are treating President Trump’s Star Force initiative with a straight take. As many commentators here are pointing out, taken literally, the whole idea is a ridiculous joke. Why not have the courage to consider a sensible reason why a narcissist megalomaniac who inexplicably finds himself elected President and Commander in Chief of the worlds greatest superpower would propose the creation of a whole new branch of the military, “separate but equal” , from the existing five branches? I submit that the underlying rationale is to create an independent fighting /police force officered and staffed by personnel hand picked and indoctrinated for unwavering loyalty to the President. Think this would be totally unprecedented? Then I suggest re-reading the early chapters of “The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich”.
4
"Then I suggest re-reading the early chapters of “The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich”.
Especially the parts devoted to revealing
the origins of Hitlers infamous SS.
1
Seeing his balloon self soaring over London, Trump's extramarital
pursuits have now gone extraterrestrial.
5
I can't believe you take this distraction seriously. Trump will never have the focus to carry any of this out. He'll appoint the wrong people to head it up--if his interest lasts long enough and he stays in office long enough--if he appoints anyone at all. How about writing about important stuff--like kids separated from their parents illegally who are now lost souls? Enough with excusing and rationalizing this president.
3
There are five UN treaties governing the use of outer space and earth orbital space. These cockamamie, Buck Rogers ideas from the infant trump are probably in violation of them.
1
How about a little earthly focus first for our Dear Leader? Yesterday he ran the National Security meeting with no commitment for monies to secure our elections and ballot box in 2018 or 2020.
Cybersecurity to promote and defend the integrity of our right to vote is a primary concern as opposed to evil space aliens right now.
Our military industrial complex is already too bloated. We do not need a whole new level of space weapons nor should we ever consider space wars as something humans should engage in. Ok, of course we will sometime in the future because we are stupid humans intent upon doing harm to each other and our environment both on earth and in the universe. But we should try to put that off for as long as we can.
1
"Congress is making the situation worse by ordering the Pentagon, in the 2019 defense bill, to begin work on a space-based missile interceptor that experts say is provocative, technically infeasible and prohibitively expensive."
Once more The Editorial Board is missing the point. The reason for Congress ordering the Pentagon to begin work on a space-based missile interceptor is not to protect key military assets of the US in space. The goals are: 1) to have the ability to attack military and commercial assets of other countries in space, once a decision is made to enter into a war; and, 2) to let a handful of powerful Congressmen make big money, by pushing up share prices of military contractor companies on the stock market.
9
Why not deploy these massive resources in the service of the beautiful, imperiled planet we already have? When every day brings news of a devastating flood or fire in every corner of the globe, one has to wonder when these supplicants to greed and power will finally wake up and help take us off this path to self-destruction.
5
Yes, let's provide Trump a new venue in which to play tough guy.
I think some donors see an opportunity for massive graft and transfer of tax revenues to their pockets. They probably gave Trump a comic book from 1965 and he became inspired. After all, you can SEE the pictures of all the winning.
5
I move to elect Mr. Trump as the first commander of the Space Force , sending him into a space station and keeping him there so he could closely oversee his troops there. As an enticement, I throw in the possibility of letting him an annual Space Force parade on Mars!
10
Trump is fishing for a lasting legacy...one that won't get the same treatment from the next president that he's given the last president.
3
Watched last night's free moon-show and was taken back to the heady days of the 60's when the space program was truly exciting, especially for a young boy.
Fast forward to this God-awful time and it is perfectly apropo for the times that the horrid Trump wants to militarize space. Yet one more opportunity for unbridled corporate welfare. Nothing more.
7
@Plennie Wingo
Space is already "militarized." Who do you think launched and maintains all those GPS satellites that allow you to find a coffee shop or plan a driving trip without having to think too much? That would be the U.S. military. "The GPS satellite constellation is operated by the 50th Space Wing of the United States Air Force." You're welcome.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GPS_satellite_blocks
1
The relative merits of expanded space exploration are irrelevant here. Trump has zero interest in improving science or even national defense.
He needs to deflect attention from his incompetence and malfeasance. We've already seen how much he likes big things that go vroom.
Of course, he might see another shiny thing that deflects his attention ... again.
8
Further space exploration is an excellent aspiration. However, of more immediate concern is near-Earth space maintenance... house-cleaning. Again, this administration is in no way competent to deal with these issues.
Trump's only idea of "strength" is bullying and strong-arming.
Sure, let's spend more money on the military, when we don't have full healthcare, when wages are so low Walmart hands new employees papers to request public assistance, when global warming is causing increasing problems...
Private Bones Spurs has no shame, and no brain.
3
And no bone spurs.
3
How about we create a department of peace. We are willing to spend trillions on war but gut the state department and diplomacy. its long past time to ratchet down the conflict in the world if civilization is to survive.
12
Yet another very stupid idea from a very stupid man.
10
Rogue Idiot.
6
Extending international hostilities to space is a colossally tragic waste of human ingenuity and resources when more pressing terrestrial needs go unmet.
If our childish old goats like Trump can spend an ungodly amount of money playing silly sci fi war games with Russian and Chinese geriatric juvenile delinquents, we sure as hell have enough money for universal health care.
15
Hopefully Space Force One will have a guidance malfunction and send this clown straight to Mars - one way.
10
Instead of considering outer space as the new frontier of progress and knowledge for the humankind, if Trump is toying with the fancy idea of having a space force as an instrument of America's extraterrestrial power projection after, of course, causing much disruption and discord on the earth, it can only suggest that he wants to add wings to his hegemonic impulse driven wild dreams of becoming the master of the universe who knows no constraints, and equally remains clueless about the destructive nature of the such unrestrained force he is badly craving for.
3
The mission of a Space Force needs to be clarified. Of course, the 1967 international treaty not to militarize space made perfect sense at the time (and still does), since the Cold War was in full swing and MAD was confined to nuclear weapons launched from Earth. The two world wars and the Cold War should remain lessons what happens when adversaries cling to the idea of world domination and delusions of power, taking what is not theirs to take, having leverage to threaten to get their way. Hundreds of millions of people were killed in the first half of the 20th century alone. Stars Wars evil Empire thinking with Death Rays aimed at our own planet is a “dumb idea.” Age-old greed and fears can only be defeated with positive visions for the future of human beings and this ever-shrinking planet. Militarization of space is not positive; it merely expands the potential fields of battle, increases mistrust, and forces all countries into a defensive/offensive posture, beside making defense contractors very wealthy. I am not starry-eyed; the realities on the ground demand defensive measures. There needs to acceptance of new ways of thinking that does not include destroying ourselves.
2
@Kathy White -- The fear in 1967 was nuclear weapons being launched, circling us at all times, ready to fall on us in nuclear holocaust without notice. Perhaps some nuclear weapons in a fixed point orbit over the capitals and major cities of each other. An accident? That would be nuclear weapons raining down, and falling by accident on their targets.
That is still possible, and still to be prevented.
In addition, the march of technology has opened new dangers. Anti-satellite weapons could blind defense warnings, but could also cause any warning satellite failure to be considered an attack.
The mere testing of anti-satellite weapons could fill near Earth orbit with dangerous debris, and that "unfortunate effect" could be the desire of one side to keep others out. Irresponsible acts to one could be clever tactics to the other.
The old dangers continue, and more new ones appear. We can't just ignore it.
All the money and worry spent on warfare and destruction...
Just think of the possibilities if all the above were invested in people and the only home we know, Planet Earth.
Is it human nature to destroy or is it our plight?
4
It might occur to a supposedly intelligent species that understanding others(nations), the differences, come to terms with forms of acceptance, long term means of reconciliation might be a better course of action. Rather, the world, the USA included, choose to spend more money for military. Threats of destruction we hear so frequently from our President fuels this dysfunctional fire.
3
This is a fairly hilarious plan except that all of Trump’s other actions are not..... climate change denial... how long can that last? Allowing steps back in auto emissions? (And who’s going to buy those cars anyway..? ). Ugh, Trump.
4
How quant to think about existing treaties that US endorsed that we now openly disregard. I want the NYT to report more on these aspects.
1. The non-militarization of space discussed in article. Now its full speed ahead with the US program.
2. Nuclear nonproliferation treaty that restricted new counties from going nuclear because the nuclear powers were going to do away with nuclear weapons. The US is now modernizing our weapons.
The US says other countries must "do what we say and not what we do." Pres Trump's career fits this script exactly.
4
Are the Klingons about to attack? The Evil Empire with it's Death Star? If so, this requires a planet-wide defense force Capt. Don. Let the United Nations do it. Instead, how about being a bit more "grounded" and less "pie in the sky" with some good old-fashioned infrastructure projects. Isn't that what you promised "a long time ago in a political galaxy not so far, far away."
17
I noticed that recent NYT coverage of a new Chinese satellite monitoring base in South America put the whole matter in terms of "clout", of power vs. disadvantage. Global adversity, the assumption that we must do or die with regard to others as they must be bent on taking something away from us..
This is a disease.
The time for cooperation and kindness is upon us, as those who now act without conscience or remorse must surely know. They are reacting to preserve their right to dominion, as the forces of peace become more and more urgent. We only have to believe this for it to come true. Then we can get to the urgent matters that threaten all of mankind.
6
Anybody notice that when he's not pursuing his hobby (which its good to know he has one) of tearing every Obama policy down to the studs, refitting it with gold plumbing, announcing it to the world, and claiming credit for policy brilliance, Trump has been following the Coolidge/Reagan map to economic disaster and policy dunderheadedness every step since Day 1?
It's like re-reading a book. You know what's coming next.
Fits of spending even more on loony military wastefulness while depriving the government of money; focusing private wealth as far away from those who need and would spend as he can it to go; borrowing like a welfare mom at the end of the month from foreign sources; throwing the American market (what remains...) open to plunder by wealthier, more successful nations and soulless/nation-less corporations.
This is an abomination, opening the universe to plunder and exploitation and challenging our better-off and more militarily adept enemies to go ahead and create weapons against which we will have no defense while we can barely keep gas in our SEPs.
As much as Reagan destroyed our economy, borrowed so much money we're still struggling with the interest, ruined social supports, and created an economic conveyor that hauls money from the middle class and the poor and dumps on the lawns of the unworthy wealthy,
Trump magnifies and extends the strategy.
Look! Up in the sky...
11
The problem is that to Mr. Trump only dominance counts. He is not interested in partnerships, only in being king-of-the-hill. Since realistically any Space Force would still have to be earth based, it would make more sense to create a focused arm of the Air Force, than it would to start from scratch. Space is a specialization, but it should be integrated with the air force, which, after all, uses some of the same 'space.'
3
@Anne-Marie Hislop -- Yes, but the realistic problem of a Space Command within the Air Force is that our defense politics since WW2 would then create rival Navy and Army Space Commands, and then a Joint Command to coordinate them, and probably a multi-part intelligence community, and multi-part civilian bureaucracy to "control" all of it, and yet more to "advise the President" from the civilian point of view.
The top layers of the very form of our armed forces is wildly grown into a non-functional problem. Space Force as the least-bad alternative illustrates how bad it all is, as we layer "joint" commands on separate commands that duplicate.
The model we can fear is the Special Operations Command, which is still growing madly and entirely out of control.
2
As I recall, Reagan started the aspirational Star Wars program with little more detailed thought than Trunp’s space force. Decades and hundreds of billions (trillions?) of dolars later, we have a system that has the operational success rate of a coin flip.
4
@MSJ -- That was a weapons program, with many moving parts, modeled on the Manhattan Project amplified.
This is a military service, actual force structure and permanent budget and competition with other services and another layer of Joint command and civilian control.
Even if we need to deal with Space, we need then to deal with our grown-insane military structure. It has become Alice-in-Wonderland even without a Space Force.
Not to worry. The fate of Trump’s space initiative will be the same as Trump’s infrastructure initiative. Nothing will come of it.
10
@WmC -- Ignoring a real issue until it blows up in our faces is not the best option. Others are out there doing stuff. We don't need an arms race with them, but we can't do blissful ignorance either.
We need an actual government to do actual stuff, on this as so much else.
US Space policy has been adrift for decades. The US has not put sustained national attention on it since the Moon Race ended. It's not a priority for most people - all they know is that it's expensive and they don't understand how critical it is.
Imagine GPS gone. That and other space-based communication links hold the global economy together. It happened gradually, but they are now vital.
It's the high ground for military conflict. Our military would be crippled with the loss of communications links and reconnaissance from space-based systems.
It's vital for monitoring the health of the planet. Satellites let us measure deforestation, droughts, fires, melting of the ice caps and glaciers, and more immediate concerns like today's weather. Solar observatories warn us about storms on the sun; one electromagnetic event of sufficient strength could destroy our power grids and more within minutes if we don't have warning to prepare for it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_storm_of_1859
Commercial space is taking off even as government efforts slide. The market for commercial satellites continues to expand, and space tourism is one way the super rich might recycle some of their massive wealth back into the economy.
All of this is incredibly vulnerable. Low earth orbit could become unusable by anyone if conflict broke out in space.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kessler_syndrome
Trump understands none of this. If he 'breaks' space, there will be no way to fix it.
8
@Larry Roth -- It isn't even expensive, on the scale of other waste, considering the benefits to all of us of GPS and communications satellites and weather satellites and more.
That is a threat, to increase the waste to keep pace with all the other waste. But we do need Space, and need to deal with the issues.
2
This fits right in with Trump's penchant for shows of strength, pomposity, and imperial designs. Instead of looking at space as a place that requires much more research before his successors decide its time to head for the stars, Trump looks at it as a potential battleground, with hopes of glory and victory.
7
What about joint ventures, so that China, Russia, and the U.S.A. might each invest some equipment in each satellite? The space station is already a joint venture, isn't it? Our satellites are vulnerable only when we exclude others from them. Wouldn't it make sense for China and Russia to join with us in weather stations and cell phone support?
It might be harder to work together on spying on each other, but spy-satellites are less invasive than teams of inspectors, so that there might be a way to come to cooperative enterprises.
2
Plus we are dependent on the raw materials supplied by China and other countries.
@Harry Shaefer
Actually, financing a space force is easy: new tax cuts for corporations and the wealthy, increased deficits for our grandkids. We'll see what happens.
And I'm starting a new company in China, to make cheap plastic space helmets with MAGA above the face shield. Ivanka will be available to handle fashion design, and I'll sell them at Trump campaign events and make a bundle!
15
@Texas Trader: You forgot a problem you could have. President Trump could impose tariff on your "Chinese" space helmets.
Change "space" to "air" and this editorial could have been written, naively, in 1910:
"The president, and many experts, seem to assume that war in the air is likely, if not inevitable. But despite their aggressive behavior, China and Russia also depend on access to the air and should have an interest in avoiding conflict. Whatever happens to the Air Force proposal, the president ought to be thinking bigger — about how the United States can help preserve the air as a global commons, free of conflict."
5
"Trump In Space"? If only!
But seriously, obviously this is a thinly veiled attempt to increase the need for more spending on war, whether or not it exists.
I can just see the demand for the US to be preeminent in "out of this world"offensive and defensive capabilities since we can't fall behind _________ (fill in the blank).
And doesn't more military spending require less spending on other government responsibilities. Considering that this administration seems to have a strong dislike for acquiring taxes to pay for anything, that must be just what they want.
4
Just the latest attention-grabbing ploy and clumsy diversionary tactic.
13
Is there any possibility that as part of the pilot programs and experiment, we can send Trump on a one way flight to some other extraterrestrial planet, say within the next 3 months?
And of course, he can build as many golf courses on Mars as he likes.
14
The man (and those blind folks that follow the tune of his pied pipe) have no idea where they're really going or what they want to achieve. He simply wants to "fill time" with a lot of distracting nonsense while he consolidates his position and sends the country into further turmoil, keeping us in a perpetual state of unease if not danger. "Trump in Space". Well, that's as close to heaven as that person will ever reach. All this nonsense but NOT ONE WORD about improving the health, education or living standards of average Americans who are not finding the economic gains that some are seeing from a currently strong economy in any way. After all, none of these economic improvements were ever meant to be shared equally since our country has no concept at all of what it means to live in a society where equitable distribution of wealth and resources would be the norm. No, alas, myopic self-interest seeking short-term gains are all that matters for these selfish people. "Trump in Space" indeed.
7
Trump has not a clue about military issues just as he is ignorant about everything else related to being President of the USA. Questions to be asked beyond the absurdity of this scheme to repeat Ronald Reagan's "Star Wars", we need to ask which companies will make the greatest profits from the massive cost of this insane initiative. Follow the money. Other than whipping up his rabid fans that is how to understand where Trump's policy comes from. Beyond that we can assume that Trump would like to be Darth Vader.
14
@jefflz, you're absolutely right! Trump has no idea how to run the military. Obama was a much more informed, skilled commander-in-chief. Being a community organizer and a college professor taught him everything he needed to know.
1
Obama may not have had the military experience but, he was willing to listen and educate himself. Our current president just acts without thinking.
@jefflz -- No one person knows all these things.
It is a matter of leadership, and of smart vs stupid. Obama is smart, and demonstrated leadership skills.
4
We have seen this all before--when Reagan was president. It's too familiar. Liberals, and their lackeys in the media, howled when he proposed building up our military--and creating a missile defense system.
Ultimately, it ended the Cold War--as the Soviet Union bankrupted itself trying to compete with the U.S. Gorbachev realized they would always be forced into a game of "catch-up", which could never be won.
We have Reagan to thank--for the greatest outbreak of freedom in world history: the Soviet Union is no more, the Berlin wall came down, and the countries of Eastern Europe are now democratic and free--because of our strength. But when you bring up Reagan's name in liberal circles--there is only scowling derision.
Liberals have never quite learned the lessons of history--of Neville Chamberlain--that it is always military weakness and lack of political will that leads to war--not playing nice through diplomacy. It is military strength that causes the bad guys to blink--and think better of causing mayhem. Evil only fears strength.
So here we are again as history repeats itself: another American president--another Conservative--looking ahead, planning for the future safety of our country. And as always, the American media, and liberal politicians criticize the effort. It's not that they so much dislike government spending--but only if it goes to social programs--the kind that create dependency--the kind that wins votes for liberal politicians.
2
@Jesse The Conservative
Here we are again as history repeats itself again, alright: conservatives crediting Reagan with ending the Cold War single-handedly without mentioning Gorbachev and the reforms he brought about through the policies of glasnost and perestroika. Gorbachev’s decision to allow western ideas and goods into the USSR led to the unraveling of the Soviet bloc, starting with Poland. Those reforms had far more to do with the breakup of the Soviet Union than did Reagan’s SDI program.
But hey, Stars Wars has always had a huge fan base.
12
@Jesse The Conservative
Star Wars aka the Strategic Defense Initiative was and still is way beyond our current scientific technological capabilities. Reagan played a great game of poker and Gorbachev caved.
When and where have you served your nation in the military uniform of any American armed force?
When, where and how did the American military last win a war that advanced American interests and values?
4
Baloney.
Reagan ‘did not win the Cold War’.
It was 40 years of consistent foreign and defense policy started by FDR and Harry Truman, it was the NATO and the Marshall Plan that built a strong American -European alliance. It was the steady leadership by Eisenhower and Kennedy, men who knew war on a personal basis. It was Truman, Johnson and Nixon opposing the Communist in Korea and Vietnam, it was the thousands of American soldiers, sailors and airmen who fought and died in battlefields throughout the world. Ronald Reagan inherited this legacy and had the good sense to stand with our Allies and the American people and face down this menace.
Today’s conservatives would do well stop the hero worship of Reagan, it only leads to the nihilistic cultism of Trump.
16
Space: the final frontier. These are the voyages of the star-battleship Enterprise. Its five-year mission: to explore strange new worlds. To seek out new life and new civilizations. To boldly go where no man has gone before--and start a war!
8
Space debris is already a serious problem NOW, and one we currently have no way of fixing.
11
@Anthony Flack -- We currently have no program to fix it. We ignore it, and rely that in time most stuff falls to lower orbits and then to burn up over Earth. All of it will, but some not for a very long time and causing much trouble before then.
I can imagine ways, and those not vastly expensive. Any broom-like device need only slow material so that all of it falls and burns up, and the left over broom too. It isn't magical.
2
Deja vu all over again - Reagan's "Star Wars." Ugh. Stupid the first time, even stupider now, but then again, we're trying trickle-down economics again, and tax breaks for the rich again, and economic meltdown is coming. All these only ten years after it happened … again … after it happened in the 1980s. How many times will we do the same stupid things, over and over and over? Until the GOP becomes history, like the Know-Nothings and the Whigs?
16
Well, as some science and technology history familiar individuals may know, German military rocket V-2 was the first man-made object to travel into space by crossing the Kármán line with the vertical launch on 20 June 1944. After the the World War Two space and military research always worked hand-in-hand.
A major flaw in the plan by the evil emperor and his death stars is not fully integrating the armed forces. One lesson you may have gleaned from this is that the death star aimed a laser at a planet and destroyed it and knowing Trump, he probably wants to put a big arsonist in space.
It finally dawned on me that Trump's repiticious "Great" mantra is actually brainwashing the nation. Owing to this skin deep attempt at replicating the star wars strategy put forth by Reagan, it seems to me Trump desperately wants to be known as and remembered as a "Great" President, worshipped much the same as Reagan. He's so superficial. His ego is totally abnormal.
5
The US certainly would be unwise to provoke a race for military dominance in space. We, on the other, hand, will have no choice but to compete and win should China or Russia give strong indications that either of them give evidence of thinking otherwise.
2
Thank you for this editorial on Trumps misguided plan for a space force. We don’t need weapons in space. I agree that we should be agreeing norms of behaviour with other countries to keep this final frontier weapon and conflict free. We need to agree things such as those already stipulated in the UN Outer Space Treaty like the conditions for making resource claims on the moon or Mars or any other body to avoid conflict.
6
Trump probably saw the latest Star Wars episode before making this momentous decision.
The last thing the world needs is more potential conflict and increased chances of mankind's self-destruction.
It is one thing to pursue Chaos Theory, and another to create chaos for its own sake. I don't believe Trump knows the difference, or even that he cares. It's all about self-aggrandizement and diverting attention away from genuine problems like crumbling infrastructure, the obscene Wealth Gap, unequal opportunity and climate change.
So I wouldn't be surprised to wake up one day to learn he had doubled down on his not-so-hidden agenda, declaring Russia America's biggest ally, banning all press conferences and announcing Mar-a-Lago his permanent place of residence.
Outrageous is the new normal.
12
@Hamid Varzi In “The Last Jedi,” everybody dies.
While in elementary and middle school in the 1960s I was very interested in the space program and watched most of the launches on television. I never missed an episode of Lost in Space and Star Trek.
I was 14 and visiting my family in Portugal during the Apollo 11 mission. Our village didn’t have electricity but at the time we were spending a few days at the seaside. We found a café where we could watch the landing and I remember being mesmerized with everything that was going on the moon.
I started to lose interest in high school and only paid attention when NASA was mentioned on the evening news. I recognize that a lot of our modern inventions may have started with our space program and that it has made many contributions to our society. However, I now think that we should continue with the program but not give it a budget that takes away from the needs of Earthlings. Let’s abolish poverty, disease, climate change and the other problems we face on our planet before we go crazy on expanding the space program.
And the Space Force? Really! Whatever could go wrong? Does the man think that others won’t imitate us? I can think of a few countries, Russia, China, North Korea, and Iran, that would follow us in this insane adventure. Never mind the Space Force; let’s work on getting rid of the nuclear threat and whatever else threatens the lives of Earthlings.
Stop the distractions! Republicans do your jobs before Trump destroys our country!
29
@M. Natália Clemente Vieira -- It need not be either/or. Space does not threaten to consume so much that we can't take care of each other. Wars on the other hand have always been guns or butter choices. We do lots of wars, more all the time, never ending them but only adding more.
1
"Not long ago, national leaders and scientists, if not Hollywood producers, saw space as a horizon for scientific exploration rather than for intergalactic battles."
Rather hard to say, whether it's Hollywood or Washington that has been the most earnestly deceptive Trek-ker.
The movie industry cashes its checks on myth as power; and the Pentagon, on power as myth.
Meanwhile, the vast majority of Americans are as if Lost in Space.
6
To be honest, the editorial was quite muddled, arguing both that the United States would be the biggest beneficiary & biggest loser in the establishment of a “Space Force”. It also stated that the United States has dangerous adversaries, but that we should somehow cooperate with them without any incentive on their part. Finally, there was a call for patience while simultaneously arguing that something needed to be done quickly as our efforts to date have been diffuse and ineffective.
Am I reading this right?
9
@Transposition. No
@Transposition
This is what happens when committees write editorials. See also "too many cooks spoil the soup."
Trump is a few decoder rings short of a Starfleet.
98
So, if an extraterrestrial should ask us 'Take us to your leader', how do we respond?
42
@Observer
Response: Take him with with you. Please!!!
2
@Observer
We could ask them to take him to their planet
1
@Observer - make like you do when you're overseas - pretend you're Canadian.
Everyone knows the greatest known and most urgent threat to the security of humanity is global warming. As global warming progresses it will make life on Earth for all humanity and all species unbearably miserable, food and water shortages, wildfires, flooding, and extreme weather. Life for our species will be brutish and short unless we begin to cooperate internationally. This should be the number #1 mission of the United Nations or a new internationally funded mission organization to implement a strategy to reduce and remove the threat as the first priority of all countries.
Space should not be a theatre for war, but a theatre for capturing the energy of the Sun to generate electricity and beam it to Earth to make very cheap electricity, about 2 cents per kwhr, to begin phasing out oil, natural gas, and coal as a source of energy for the continued economic progress that has vastly improved the quality of life for humanity.
Cheap electricity created by harnessing the sun and beaming low-energy microwaves to receiving antennae fields for grid distribution is probably the safest and most reliable way to ensure the survival of our species. This system proposed by Dr. James Powell, the inventor of Superconducting Maglev Space Launch, describes this system at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0-npDJlxCA and in his books, "Silent Earth, Will Humans Give Up Fossil Fuels" and "Spaceship Earth, How Long Before We Crash". These should be required reading for all policymakers.
33
@james jordan
It is important that we continue to use space for peaceful purposes that are already serving humankind:Earth Observing, Communications, Weather, GPS, and missions not yet defined like asteroid defense, cleaning up the clutter of burnt out debris in space.
I am certain that Space is probably the best way to smoothly transition from fossil fuels.
10
@james jordan
You're probably right. But I have a feeling that if tomorrow you were to ask everyone to name the greatest known and most urgent threat to the security of humanity, the almost universal answer would be... well, you know what the answer would be.
@james jordan --- Ahh! Beam energy down but incorporate focusing when needed to convert that fine energy source into am aimable beam weapon.
Easy to pervert what by all rights should be a wonderful idea.
2
Trump in space...sounds like the beginning of a really funny joke.
11
Space Force? Yes, let’s send him there.
10
Maybe a Space Cadet Patrol is needed to fight off an illegal alien invasion.
11
Actually, for about 20 years, I believe the government has known about or been afraid of other beings from space. In their paranoia the government calls them enemies.
I call them angels.
@Sam
trump has told the joint chiefs that Pluto is a clear and present danger. With an animated version of a top secret defense paper, they showed the president his perception of Pluto was a ruse planted by putin. trump asked the JCS to look into Goofy. When they told him there was no such planet as Goofy, the president just shook his head, “ All those years...fake news.”
17
The USAF was broken out of the US Army after World War II.
Frankly, the headline is disrespectful of serious discussion.
Maybe Space is different. Isn't that possible? As the editorial points out, there are many different priorities vs. "Air Force" or "Army"
It appears that the NYT, and other clowns, such as The Daily Show are reflexively against it, simply because it was proposed by D. Trump.
If it had been proposed by B. Obama, it is certain the Times "Editorial Board" would have thought it genius.
Another embarrassing editorial (and in this case, headline) from the NYT.
4
Trump is also embarrassing. The military is embarrassing. US history and US foreign policy are embarrassing. The fact that humanity, after thousands of years, can find no way to solve problems, and misuses the military, is embarrassing. The amount of money we have wasted on the military and the space program are embarrassing. We should have had other priorities, like taking care of our people and our country. But, most embarrassing of all, our government's priorities seem to be tax breaks for billionaires and harassment and alienation for everyone else not in their private white male club.
4
@Rex Hausladen Why not a space force? Another way for mankind to self destruct. What will get us first - nuclear war (space or not) or climate change?
1
@Rex Hausladen -- "The USAF was broken out of the US Army after World War II."
That was an expensive mistake.
Canada went the other way, to unification. It works.
In a month or two, somebody should tell Mr. Trump that he's scheduled to go inspect the troops up there. That would provide enough time to create a little capsule, and after he would get inside people could shake it around a bit from time to time and make "whish, whoosh" noises. Of course he'd get Fox News but the engineers would have explained beforehand that he couldn't send out any tweets.
And then, somewhere far out in space, some alien civilization would hear, from Earth, a tremendous sigh of relief.
52
A brand new branch of the armed services? Why not? Too bad Trump's stroke of stable genius will never result in the establishment of anything unless fostering heightened defensiveness, lack of cooperation, and mistrust between the Army, Navy, Air Force and Marines counts.
5
@Leigh We already have a US Space Command. It’s been a part of the US Air Force since the 1980s. Trump, of course, does not know this.
2
Fabulous idea....trump in space and don't come back.
Bon Voyage!
63
@Sari Space is not the place for junk!
I know it seems like a good idea.... but cluttering up space isn't the way to go. Please suggest a better way to vote him off the island..... HEY! That's it! VOTE!!!!
1
Forget space combat...Will they have a float in the parade?
9
@JB
Yes they will, and it will have space on it.
1
Except nothing like a Space Force is going to happen. It's another distraction.
9
Not content with making our planet poorer due to Trump and Republican policies, they now want to spread chaos to space. Would it be possible to just stuff up our planet, and leave the rest of our solar system alone?
10
Somehow humankind decided to keep Antarctica military free. How about we do that for space?
79
You may want to read the latest book by Dr. Michael Salla “Antarctica’s Hidden History “
I'm only half expecting Trump to come up with a Space Force Admiral suit for himself. Until then, I'm wondering what "separate but equal" means, never mind the social ramifications of that phrase. Does 'equal' mean equal budget? Equal staffing? Equal ranks? What?
7
If anybody decides to launch a space war and start blowing up satellites, the resultant debris cloud will ensure that nobody can have satellites or explore space for thousands of years to come.
12
With all the junk in space just a matter of time before it’s all an unending pinball game
11
The idea of a “Space Force” is unusually stupid, even for Trump. I assume he’s thinking of some kind of space Marines, right out of “Starship Troopers” (everyone’s least favorite Robert Heinlein book). Fortunately, that’s impossible in the foreseeable future. (Astronauts in near earth orbit in jet-powered space armor and space guns, patrolling the High Frontier—seriously???)
We may be sure that persons in our military have already considered the implications of anti-satellite weapons. At the Naval Academy, for example, students are once again taught the same kind of celestial navigation that captains used on sailing ships in the nineteenth century. If the satellites go out, the modern-day captains will still know where they are. For the rest of the military’s plans—I don’t think you’re going to read about them in the New York Times, or anywhere else. I’m sure the Pentagon is not going to tell us about them.
The real problem here is not the militarization of space, part of which has already happened; I’ll bet those anti-satellite weapons are already up there. That was pretty much bound to happen, no matter what. And the problem is certainly not real-life Starship Troopers; that’s impossible. The real problem is Trump, who has the all brains and stability of a gerbil. As long as he’s president, we’re not safe from anything, and the possibility of a space force is the LEAST of our worries.
57
@Constance Warner-
For the first time I'm glad resident Trump doesn't read the NY Times.
If he saw your line, "Astronauts in near earth orbit in jet-powered space armor and space guns, patrolling the High Frontier," he'd grab a pen and create the High Frontier Force by executive order. He'd probably try to get them launched from Trump tower too, and commission Ivanka to reboot her line to make astro-suits with big Ts on the front.
(And you're so right about Starship Troopers. Ugh.)
It's way too early for a separate Space Force, and the Army and Air Force have some major sorting out to do - A10 and ground support, for example.
But, the bottom line is that "we have fought in every time and place where we could take a gun." And come to think of it, wouldn't it be better to have fights in space that kill hundreds than war on Earth that will kill billions?
Star wars may have been impossible when Reagan proposed it, but it isn't impossible any more.
1
"... wouldn't it be better to have fights in space that kill hundreds than war on Earth that will kill billions?"
Spy, communications, and weather satellites don't have people on them. Further, space-based weapons could target people on the ground.
Anyway, wars are not fought in only one venue. Even in Afghanistan, which is landlocked, the Navy has flown combat missions from aircraft carriers, albeit with aerial refueling.* However, if Afghanistan had had a modern air defense system, those aerial tankers would have been unusable without suppression of the air defense system.
Now consider the possibility that aircraft could be attacked from space.
* "On the first night of the attack, the refuelers from the carrier escorted its attack planes through an air corridor above Pakistan all the way to the border of Afghanistan, ..."
A NATION CHALLENGED: AIR OPERATION; Afghanistan's Distance From Carriers Limits U.S. Pilots' Flights
By DOUGLAS JEHL
OCT. 11, 2001
https://www.nytimes.com/2001/10/11/world/nation-challenged-air-operation...
3
@Gary - wouldn't it be better to have fights in space? In a word, NO.
If we start blowing stuff up in Earth orbit, we won't be able to go into space any more. No more rockets, no more satellites. The debris from the space fight would stay in orbit and form a cloud of lethal shrapnel around the Earth.
1
What's the point of missiles blowing up satellites making those orbits useless when software and hacking is easier and cheaper to simply "brick" the satellite, or better yet take it over.
If Russians can take down our power grid with hackers - not missiles - they can likely do something similar to our satellites. Perhaps the NSA can do the same to Russian and Chinese satellites.
As trump strategically ignores the hacking of our elections by the Russians on his and the Republican's behalf, he distracts and wastes scarce resources militarizing space. Anyone think he will pay his portion in taxes to cover that cost?
Maybe trump and his allies are worried about aliens from outer space. Quick, we need a space wall!
I am sure trump will con his base of scaredy cats with guns and prayers that aliens from space are yet another threat that only trump can save them from.
8
Trump in space. Yes, can we have Trump in space - as soon as possible, please? A manned mission to Pluto should be just about right.
51
The world has a robust and generally accepted Law of the Sea that evolved through multiple UN conventions, numerous treaties and plenty of hard work involving many countries. There’s also a body of Space Law - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_law - but I don’t know whether it covers the kinds of situations that Mr. Trump imagines the “Space Force” would be involved with. I’m sure he hasn’t even read that Wikipedia page. Before - or at least in tandem with - any initiative to increase our military might in space, the U.S. should not only demonstrate that it fully understands current agreements but also take the lead in working with other countries to develop those aspects of Space Law that fall short of current realities.
Separately, how does one create a fifth arm of the U.S. military (big budget numbers, right?) immediately after passing huge corporate tax cuts?
4
As usual, the middle class, or what's left of it, will pay. The working class has already been pretty much destroyed, so now it's our turn.
2
Can we not "look over there" every time Mr. Trump creates another distraction? We know you have to cover the occupant of the Oval Office, but until Vladimir Putin is no longer running two countries and all of the babies have been released from cages and returned to their parents, please maintain your focus. I would be satisfied with a daily summary of lesser transgressions and irrational tweets as long as you keep allocating resources to covering the big stuff.
Your serious analysis of the potential battle for space would be appreciated were it not for the imminent threat here on the ground.
11
This seems to be an extension of the 2006 Bush space policy. I recall reading the unclassified version, and it basically said that the U.S. could do anything we wanted in space and no one would be allowed to interfere in anyway. It was in essence an restatement of our terrestial policy applied to space. I found it so terrifying that I couldn't help but wonder what the classified version said. Apparently we'll soon find out. Since Pentagon spending now reaches into nearly every Congressional district, expect Congress to go along with this endeavor, likely increasing spending well beyond what the Pentagon requests or can make use of.
3
Great ! Yet another platform on which to swagger around, indulge in infantile braggadocio, puff himself up, make endless phony macho faces, describe how wonderful it will be with that irritating voice of his ... I can't wait. Gag me.
39
As usual, nobody gets Trump - only thing better than a parade is summitry...
Two words:
Khan, Worf
Putin is just so...2016...
PS
When he clarifies that he meant cyberspace, this won't be a half-bad idea...
6
It's confirmed. The bone spurs have spread to his brain.
117
Where do I contribute ? I will gladly send HIM into Space. The first extraterrestrial Zeppelin. Seriously.
90
@Phyliss Dalmatian And whatever you do, Hal, DON'T OPEN THE POD BAY DOORS.
1
@Phyliss Dalmatian
A night time landing on the Sun?
2
Trump...…..needs to be on the next rocket …...all expenses
paid....one way trip....tell him how famous he will be....and
perhaps we can get rid of him...
Editors ...you cannot really be serious about this …????
28
@Carol B. Russell
I saw the headline, and thought What a good idea! Trump in Space. Now, that's something I could really support.
One way trip....you said it best.
6
Funny that a coward, with multiple military deferrals (for invented bone spurs), who has no idea of the utter horror of wars, wants to become a warmonger. How about having him return from outer space...where he seems to inhabit, clueless about the needs of Mother Earth.
4
This isn't just another arms race –– it's the 1960's Space Race all over again. The world's superpowers vie to be the first to establish something of their own in space, and in so doing assert their dominance like an overly presumptuous bulldog. And for what? An American flag on the Moon that fades to solid white under the unfiltered UV rays of the Sun in no time flat? I seem to recall Neil Armstrong taking "one giant leap for mankind", not "one giant leap for the U.S.". The plaques left on the lunar surface by the Apollo missions proclaim that "We came in peace for all mankind".
But couple a second Space Race with another arms race? Who can even imagine how catastrophic that would be? As global superpowers, we already hold in our arsenals the power to destroy a civilization. What could possibly serve to justify escalating a conflict with that kind of potential? It'd be a sorry thing if we obliterated ourselves before even setting foot on another planet.
Nationalism applied to space (exploration, militarization, whatever) is absurd at best and extremely dangerous at worst. On an astronomical scale, Russia, China, and the U.S. are the same place. We call that place Earth. This isn't some competition, because whatever we achieve in space is an achievement of humanity –– not of the U.S. any more than the other billions of individual members of our species we share this rock with. The day we forget that, I reckon, is the day we lose something of what makes us "humanity".
4
His button's bigger, so no worries.
But to Democrats' ("et tu me" I must say) chagrin and shame, here's Trump latching on to another issue long downplayed by the "'establishment'/media/govt/think tanks/etc." but that deserves attention and, most importantly, action.
Trump may make his usual mess of things, but it's a real issue.
3
In 1973 on active duty I volunteered to in my off hours help process some of the real time satellite photos of the Yom Kippur War. The photos I saw were NOT the best (a Secret Clearance did not entitle you to even see how good our best satellite photos were). In the early 1980's in the Marine Corps Reserves I had brief acquaintances with this subject, both as Electronic Counter Counter Intelligence Officer and as a certified Orbiter (Space Shuttle to civilians) controller, should in a war military controllers become necessary. In the reserves mainly I performed other duties, but these were the slots I prepared to fill should there be a major war. Since then I have had no classified information on these subjects, but I read the NY Times. I can give you several strong opinions.
1. The neocons told us that as far as major wars go, "History has ended." Others have claimed this for centuries. Those previously claiming this were as wrong as the neocons will be proved to be.
2. Warfare in space is incredibly powerful. The bird's eye view you got generations ago is a POWERFUL force multiplier in a conventional war. More modern space weapons are far more powerful.
3. Assets in space are incredibly vulnerable. And if somebody (probably using cheap ASAT missiles) knocks out our satellites we don't have a lot of extra satellites ready to launch, nor rockets to launch them.
4. Trump's an utter idiot in this arena. He can expand conflict to outer space, but not win.
7
The Conference Report on the Defense Authorization Act doesn't include any funding for our Boy President's Space Force. This nutty idea is going nowhere fast.
1
I heard Mr Trump say he wanted to make America great again; "America First."
Doesn't leave much room for "space as a global commons, free of conflict and open to exploration by all space-faring nations."
3
Someone should get serious about cyber security, and leave space defense to the Air Force. We now live in a cybersphere which is completely undefended. Nations and insurgent groups must realize that cyber warfare is the easiest and cheapest way to bring us to our knees, and get away scot free.
1
"China and Russia have proposed a legally binding treaty that would ban the use of force or weapons in space."
How naive can you be ?
In a war, everything is permissible. Lincoln jailed newspaper editors during the Civil War in violation of the Constitution , Roosevelt's Lend Lease Program was a violation of Internal Law on Neutrality . And later Roosevelt herder US citizens in on racial selection into concentration camps - in violation of the 14th amendment, if there ever was one.
And those were US presidents. And you expect Russia and China to adhere to International law ???
You must be kidding.
2
How disappointing that the Space Force won't be Star Fleet with the mandate to explore strange new worlds and seek knowledge of space beyond the Earth. Or even to help regulate space junk in orbit around our planet. Meh. It's Trump, so of course the nebulous plans are confused and devolve to the lowest common denominator, or involve using the military to blow up the planet instead of protecting it.
3
The headline was encouraging; for a moment I hoped there were plans afoot to send Mr. Trump to "outer space". Can someone talk to Elon Musk about it?
28
I can see it now: the new space blockbuster
"Lost In Inner Space"starring Donald Trump
and Mike Pence as two guys living in a basement
in the Midwest who never go out for fear of
meeting immigrants, minorities or gay people.
they imagine that they are in a spaceship
protected by a space force who keep them
from harm.the ending is a spectacular light
and color show which is actually the local
police using tear gas and flash grenades
to take them to the rest home from which
they recently escaped. the final scene shows
them sitting quietly in a day room being given
their medicine by a gay illegal immigrant.
it can't miss.
62
Maybe Trump should create a well trained agile force to eliminate the central American cartel terrorists who are causing hundreds of thousands of innocent victims to crash our border. Maybe we should call that force the Marines.
2
"Trump in Space" - if only we could make that happen sooner than later. To quote the sage Carl Sagan, "Billions and billions" of people are more than happy to kick trump off the planet.
22
The US has been in a military race with Russia to dominate space, the ultimate high grounds, ever since the USSR launched Sputnik.
NASA was and is a program funded for military domination of space. It's name is as misleading as the Department of Energy.
If you ever have been in their headquarters (I have)) the seal in the great entrance hall still says
THE ATOMIC ENERGY COMMISSION OF THE UNITED STATES
and the major part of its budget is Atomic Weapons.
DOE aka the Atomic Energy Commission' s building in Gaitherburgh is oriented such that in the case of an atomic strike on Washington it presents a minimal cross section to the shock wave hitting it.
Get real NY Times Board.
1
Trump will no doubt move forward with establishing America’s military presence in space with the same thoughtful consideration and careful planning he put into the Muslim travel ban and the zero tolerance family separation program.
3
Wait a minute--I like the idea of Trump in Space, as suggested by the headline and illustration. How soon can we send him off?
23
When does Star Fleet Academy open?
3
Trump: The "cardboard warrior" so fascinated by war, even in space now, so eager to push the button to start a nuclear conflict as long as he remain protected in a bunker and YOU go to die.
10
Let's see.
America, according to NYT, now dominates space. Space, according to NYT, is very important. Trump wants to spend money on space, including the development of a space-based defense system. He also has said that we should send a manned mission to Mars.
The last time we dangled the prospect of space-based missile defense, in the 1980s, the Soviet Union folded, with Republicans, and some historians, arguing that SDI helped end the Cold War. Since we're going to blow the money anyway, if history is any guide, why not on a mission to Mars? There are worse things.
That sound you just heard was a Trump Trap, with the NYT ed board getting its paw caught. Again.
@August West The United States Space Command began its work in September 1982. It’s a major division of the US Air Force. Trump, I’m guessing, has never heard of the USSC, and none of his aides will tell him his “big idea” has been in operation for 36 years.
maybe trump can lead by example and launch himself into the farthest reaches of the universe - he can be the best astronaut ever.
21
Jim Bridenstine, head of NASA, is the likely person that put the bug in Trumps ear. He comes from the same state as Pruitt, Oklahoma. And has commensurate experience as Pruitt did at EPA. None. With no scientific or engineering expertise, he's a perfect candidate for war in space.
Or then again, it could have been Bolton. He's itching for a war anywhere, anytime. Outer space, Iran, North Korea, just war, war war.
29
War in space is inevitable. One would be a sucker not to blind an adversary’s GPS and reconnaissance satellites. By the way, cruise missile and backpack low yield nukes are not off of the table. Neither are nerve gasses like VK. And wait until people are permanently blinded when they are dazzled with lasers.
WWI was so steampunk....
5
I would not mind sending Trump to the moon.
3
@Truthiness The moon is too near. Andromeda galaxy, perhaps?
4
@Truthiness
He could hitch a ride with Newt and Calista. I’m sure the Pope would bless them.
1
At least Trump has stopped talking about the border wall for a while now. Perhaps we should humor him and indulge this whim until he completely forgets the other.
2
Meanwhile, NASA has a shoestring budget and its computer systems date to the 1970s and 80s, each unit using its own antiquated legacy software. Updating NASA and/or integrating it into the Pentagon would be a better solution than creating "Space Force."
3
This off the wall tweeter and mocker
Has finally gone off his rocker
This non-reading jerk
Thinks he's Captain Kirk
With Bolton as Spock not a shocker.
134
@Larry Eisenberg
Right on!
1
"But many experts consider such a pact unverifiable or even naïve, given how aggressively both countries are developing their own capabilities."
That's a non sequitur.
Anyway, it is hard to hide in space. Satellites can be tracked and observed from the ground. And there are no borders in space, so a satellite or missile could be launched to pass or orbit near another satellite, if closer observation is needed.
"... including not to test antisatellite weapons."
With enough fuel, any satellite can become a suicide-satellite that simply collides with a target.
2
Humans just can't manage to get along. The fights have to penetrate every possible niche humans ever occupied or could occupy in the future. I am relieved that I probably won't live to see space wars. I try to make the space I occupy as peaceful as possible here on earth.
30
Isn’t this why we have a democracy? How can we let one man essentially ruin the universe? Congress must pass some sort of explicit law that will preclude even the “Commander in Chief” from creating such a force with a mere executive order. We know what the territorial imperative did to Earth; we must develop a better sense of how to share space.
4
The idea of cooperation with Russia, China, Iran and others instead of planning for offense and defense in space is the same sort of mindset that gave us a vulnerability to cyber attacks. No matter your political stripes I think we can all agree that talking while not taking defensive steps is likely to have poor results.
1
Werner Von Braun warned that eventually mankind and it's Arms/War/Banking/Industry Cartels would finally get to the point where Any war would be attacking their own Corporations, so they would have to invent an "Alien Menace" that we would have to defend against instead.
Is That what has Trump going, or was there really something to the old Project Blue Book and Area 51 and need for specific defense?
With as little truthful information available as we get on That, among many other scientific discoveries, the US War Economy Corporations have kept a lot of massive money making secrets out of Public Hands, in fact, rarely does the Govt own them as the corporations involved own them instead.
Using combustion rockets still is about as crazy as us using internal combustion engines for nearly 140 years now when there is much, much better hidden behind "National Security" firewalls.
But that has been the major problem with the Space Program to begin with: How truthful have they been, how much do they 'retouch' on photos of other planets and moons? Why did they cut off Apollo 16 driving on a road on the surface of the moon during live feed, and then we have almost never gotten Real 'live' feeds anymore, there is usually a delay so they can turn off cameras, redirect, etc, so as to not show Public all that we already have up there.
So, either there is just nothing but satellites, or a space fleet already, and ET's already being dealt with by Governments...who just don't tell US.
3
@B. Honest -- "finally get to the point where Any war would be attacking their own Corporations"
We were already there in WW2. It didn't stop anybody. Ford built US bombers to bomb Ford factories in Nazi control. There was a lot more of that than just Ford, but the example is clear.
With all respect to Gen Dunford, his reply back in June of "We got you", vs, say, "Yes, Sir", suggested that he and his peers had a full grasp of the situation's reality.
America's peaceful spaceflight program returns enough rewards to endorse itself. We haven't "lost the sky", but we may yet if we turn it into a battlefield.
6
The directive was to "study" the creation, not to create it without thinking, another say "lie". And competition in space has been going on for a long time, the Air Force has a secret vehicle in use. We still have a treaty or rather several to obey.
"... the Air Force has a secret vehicle in use."
If you know about it, it can't be too "secret". Cite a reliable source.
4
@DKR Perhaps while “studying” the Space Force idea, Trump might realize that we’ve had the United States Space Command as a major part of the US Air Force for almost 40 years.
@DKR -- There has been limited coverage of some off-budget programs that sound very expensive. That is the latest thing, to spend in secret, and then leak a few hints of how powerful we are.
I still wonder where all the "crazy* comes from. Who is putting these ideas in Trump's mind? Does he share text's with some 6th grader or is it the Ghost of Steve Bannon? I'm possible to know. The only certainty is the crazy part...
77
@Clyde .
Could it be possible that this " space initiative " is an
effort to be ready for " contact " with explorers from
outer space ?
@Clyde Our current President has an unending imagination about things he knows nothing about. Just think about what a baby imagines when he looks at the mobile above his crib.
1
@Clyde I think his Cokes are laced with very badly made LSD.
1
You guys still haven’t twigged. First is the declaration, then comes an official invitation for CNN, the Times, the WaPost and others among the usual suspects, to collect their best investigative reporters and pundits to ascend on Elon Musk’s latest rocket-fired re-enterable vehicle to photograph the arms platforms under discussion, along with experts to explain what’s going on.
But it’s discovered as the passenger vehicle ditches the rocket in (temporary) Earth orbit that there are no experts, communications are non-existent, you’re nowhere close to any satellites, the International Space Station or the abandoned husks of Salyut, Almaz, Skylab, Mir and Tiangong 1. And you sense that your orbit is decaying, while discovering that the vehicle has no onboard fuel to make orbit corrections. And nobody thought to invite Sandra Bullock.
But Trump was kind enough to leave you plenty of iced Trump champagne.
You’ll never learn.
Do me a favor: tell Charles Blow NOT to ask to be included in the historic mission. I’d miss him.
It would take at least twenty years to put the infrastructure up there, and Trump won’t be around that long. Try to settle.
11
Of course Trump has no idea what he is talking about, however one would expect more from the Times and its investigative reporters. At the very least, it should be made clear that space warfare does not necessarily mean missiles chasing each other in orbit. For instance, an adversarial electromagnetic disruption in the Earth's ionosphere can cause significant damage to satellites and telecommunications and it's not even that hard to achieve -- just check out the (currently defunct) H.A.A.R.P program (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Frequency_Active_Auroral_Research_Pro....
So while creating a separate but equal military service may be unnecessary and ill-advised, at least acknowledging the threat and taking appropriate measures to address it would not be such a bad idea. Unfortunately, with a commander-in-chief with trustworthiness below the bottom of the ocean, strategizing about these issues better be left to the scientists and the military experts.
3
@Richard Luettgen Both Trump and the NYTimes somehow missed the ongoing existence of the United States Space Command, a major division of the US Air Force that’s been around since 1982. So we don’t need Trump’s harebrained Space Force, we already have an outer space department that’s dedicated to scientific exploration, not intergalactic war.
Some things are true even if Trump says they are. The original impetus for the American space program was concern that the USSR would weaponize space and use that dominance to impose its will on other countries—war by other means. When the USSR launched Sputnik in 1957, it set off a massive panic. Although Sputnik itself was merely a beeping satellite, the threat was clear: As then Sen. Lyndon B. Johnson put it, the Soviets could soon drop nukes on the US like dropping rocks onto a roadway from a bridge. America then quickly got its act together and dominated space.
The USSR might have fallen, but China is rising. Fast. Under Xi Jinping it has clearly signaled that it intends to become the world’s hegemon and is willing to play hardball to do it. If you have any doubt that China intends to throw its weight around, consider that she just forced all US airlines to delete the word “Taiwan” from all their websites upon pain of cutting off all their business in China. The airlines quietly acquiesced. How do you order tickets if you want to go to Taiwan? What are we going to do when China dictates which cargo ships can traverse the South China Sea? Good questions.
With global commerce and national security highly dependent upon complex and expensive infrastructure in orbit, the militarization of outer space is inevitable. If we wait until China surprises us with dominance in space weaponry the way the Soviets did in 1957, we might not catch up in time.
Sometimes Trump is right.
17
Trump is not right. If you know anything about space, you know weaponizing it is pure folly. Physics says so. Every object in space can be tracked, you know where it is, where it will be, and how long it'll take to get there, meaning you could shoot them all down if you wanted to. This is true for all countries. One satellite getting blown up in space would set off a chain reaction with all the debris acting like individual missiles. Until NASA or any other scientific organization gets behind space weapons I'd just say no.
4
@M. Thomas
A nuclear warhead does not need to strike a target to cause incapacitation. All it needs to do is generate a large enough electromagnetic pulse (EMP) over a target area that destroys ALL semiconductors in its wake. An EMP would knock out all communications systems, the power grid, the financial system, all but the oldest motor vehicles, etc. A nuke launched in space can sow a far wider area of destruction than a nuke delivered by conventional means.
This is all you need to know: Klaatu speaks!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TKKE58-06dk
4
While in military service, I toured the Cheyenne Mountain complex and got to peek at the Air Force group charged with keeping track of the debris now circling the planet.
Their remarkable catalog grew exponentially after Chinese used its a-sat weapon to blow up a satellite. That entire shell of the upper regions of near-earth space are now "off-limits" to placement of any satellites. Even a two ounce bolt traveling at 18,000 mph can inflict lethal damage on a satellite much less a human.
Give us just a handful more such adventures and we would be sealed for eons on this blue planet, prevented from reaching beyond it by our own hubris. As yet, there is no space "vacuum cleaner" to remove any of this detritus.
46
@Douglas McNeill
The European Space Agency (esa.int) is developing a system to deal with space junk, but given the amount of junk, it’s unlikely that space junk will ever be cleaned up.
1
Our roads, schools, and transit systems are falling apart. We are disinvesting in the next generation by cutting education spending. We are fueling the deficit with irresponsible tax cuts and trickle-down quackery. Just what we need, another giant rat-trap to pour trillions down.
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Since both China and Russia are already pursuing this, it is no longer an option to Just Say No.
That is a long way from going full arms race in space.
A big bureaucracy is a wasteful thing, and source of danger to push us into an arms race.
However, it could be a savings and safer to have a properly organized, modest HQ, to bring efforts together, reduce duplication and waste, and have the insight to avoid an arms race mentality.
This is something to be done right, not something we can not do at all because we don't trust the current Administration to do anything right.
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There should be a reasoned debate about this, not beginning with the headline: Trump in Space (i.e. he’s loony).
My two cents: given how important satellites are to our security and economy, some sort is defense system should be considered.
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Didn't we already go though this Star Was nonsense with Reagan?
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@Steve "Tax cuts are free money" is alive and well too.
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We have! Though it was technologically infeasible at the time. Too difficult and expensive. The process is much smoother now and there is economic impetus, rather than social impetus, to succeed.
In reply to Steve Seattle
“This Star Wars nonsense” as you so provincially put it, has produced the Iron Dome that protects Israeli cities from rocket attacks, THAAD (terminal high altitude area defence) that protects west coast cities from Chinese and North Korean ICBM’s and Exo-atmospheric Kill Vehicles (made by Raytheon) that can shoot down enemy satellites.
In case you hadn’t noticed, there is a race on to put a man on Mars. It will probably happen in the 2020’s. I’ll let you figure out who the main contenders are.
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As Gil Scott Heron would've put it, Whitey on the Moon.
Was all that money I made las' year
(for Whitey on the moon?)
How come there ain't no money here?
(Hm! Whitey's on the moon)
Y'know I jus' 'bout had my fill
(of Whitey on the moon)
I think I'll sen' these doctor bills,
Airmail special
(to Whitey on the moon)
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This should be endorsed by enthusiasts of space exploration. It should be remembered that rocketry itself reached nearly its full potential in Germany as a novel way to remotely incinerate cities.
It’s human nature: Nothing will ever motivate nations to spend as much money on science and technology as the possibility that the products might provide even better ways to kill one another.
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