Well, while they're at it, they could get rid of groundskeeper Willie, the Scottish stereotype, Fat Tony, the Italian stereotype, McBane, the German (?) stereotype, I'm sure the list can go on. All they will have left is the lazy, fat, white guy stereotype, but no one cares one way or another about that.
11
Matt Groening should keep doing what he's been doing all along, which is too keep pushing the boundaries of the acceptable. And what better way to do it than with stereotypes, especially making fun of people who view other people as stereotypes. We are not laughing at Apu, we are laughing at the idiots who mock Apu or any other stereotype. Of course, that's not entirely true. The Simpsons relentlessly mocks Christianity, but Christianity deserves it.
10
Hari Kondabolu is just looking for publicity. Apu is no different than any other satirical mobster, Italian chef, Rev. Lovejoy, etc. Apu's son was on the show & took over the Kick-K-Mart as the the next generation and like all next generations adapted to the culture and voice as he grew up in the US. He made it Quick n' Fresh! I have two Seven Elevens in my neighborhood and both have Indian men like Apu, and not women by the way, Hari, running them. This argument was brought up months ago and was already settled, with the publicity seeking hari-who conceded at that time he overreached. Why are we rehashing it, again, NYTimes?
You know, I never see Americans demanding Indian representation in India? In this country it's always about the fact the US is wrong, again, and we don't bend enough to other cultures. Well the world seems very happy with the groundbreaking -now longest running night time sitcom and that's no accident as the show's great! By the way, Apu's mother was very funny when she demanded her son follow thru on his arranged marriage. Mint-Julep turned out to be beautiful, they were married in the Simpsons backyard with opening arms. Everyone loves Apu on the show... I think in later episodes the elephant was still there, just like Burns giant statue in the basement. I just love the show and all it's characters.
10
What about Akbar and Jeff, the gay Muslim brothers from Groening's Life in Hell comic strips who are also immigrant business owners like Apu? No one seems to think it was politically incorrect to make fun of them.
3
"People love to pretend their offended." And who gets to decide when they have a "right" to be, and when it's mere pretense? What a self-serving, defensive response, Matt Groening. That self-described 1% difference between your views and those of Hari Kondabolu appears to be a pretty significant gulf, one devoid of empathy.
6
I can recite by memory every single episode of every single season of The Simpsons (don’t ask). I only say this to categorically state that If there is any character on the show that represents the “American dream.” In ‘Much Apu about Nothing,’ Apu reveals he’s an illegal immigrant with multiple advanced degrees that stayed over his student visa-and when a wave of anti-immigration fervor sweeps Springfield, we see him study and then become an American citizen (a classic exchange is when he asked what caused the Civil War to which he begins giving a highly complex answer about the intersecting economic, social and political factors until the administrator stops him and says “just say slavery.” Apu is also the hardest worker in Springfield, especially compared with other notable citizens. In one episode, Lisa stumbles upon him meditating with Paul and Linda McCartney. He is unfailingly polite, even to the many criminals that hold him up, cultured, but (unlike Stupid Flanders) sharp witted. Hank Azaria and The Simpson’s have created a nuanced, intelligent, hardworking, multidimensional character and the fact there anyone has any issue with him is ludicrous.
12
The problem is not Apu; it’s that there are so few South Asian characters on TV this is one of the only portrayals we see.
10
Hank Azaria also voices Luigi Risotto, the Italian chef who was alluded to being a “greaseball” by Nelson Muntz on one episode. Is Azaria going to stop voicing this character as well?
10
1. I’m not too knowledgeable on this but just how many native Indian voice over actors were there in 1989 when The Simpsons first aired?
2. At first glance, it’s easy to write off all the characters as stereotypes. Homer is a lazy and stupid drunk. Chief W is a corrupt cop. Krusty is a sleazy clown. Me. Burns is a corrupt fat cat. But every character has an episode (or five) where their backstories show they aren’t (quite literally) what they appear to be on paper. Of course in Apu’s case, we see an immigrant that overstayed his student visa, working longer hours than anyone else at a job he is overqualified for, struggling to hold onto his culture and assimilate as well, deal with anti-immigration sentiment, pass his citizenship test, and throughout 29 seasons present a fairly accurate picture of trying to attain the American Dream.
3. The Simpsons is a show that makes its point through satire. No one is safe from being a target of its gaze. If you aren’t a fan of it or that kind of humor , don’t watch it but they clearly have every legal and artistic right to say what they are saying.
4. If the show didn’t resonate on some level, it would not have lasted for 29 years-especially on a conservative network like FOX. This should not be a discussion because it’s a non issue. Liberals fighting about who voices Apu is exactly the reason why the GOP continues to win real political battles.
11
If instead of a convenience store owner the Indian-American character was Dr. Patel, would people be offended? That would be just as much a stereotype as Apu.
10
Mr. Groening, I would like to say Thank You for creating Apu and giving him a life on The Simpsons. I currently work for Fox and I am not offended at all. One of my fond first memory of watching an American television show was The Simpsons. We had just arrived to America on Feb 2, 1999. We were at my uncle's place in Houston, and he turned on the television and the Simpsons was on. Since then I started watching the show on Fox. Indians have moved up the ladder quickly. The first generation of Indians that came owned liquor stores, grocery stores, and gas stations. Now their kids are off to becoming lawyers, doctors, etc. They don't appreciate having an Indian character as a store anymore. This is the reason they are offended. Offended because Indians want to be part of the white group rather than the group that makes America a whole.
7
Groening has turned into the sort of grumpy old man he used to make fun of. And has lost any credibility with me.
5
Apu is comfortable in his skin and this should be an example to others.
White people overwhelm society with their opinions, wants, needs and insecurities. It's not that this characteristic of whites is unique, I believe it would be characteristic of any culture that holds such a majority position in society.
But the majority and their mass of followers, like sheep, decide society's complexion. Anyone different is, well, different. The difference permeates all of society and the minorities, like it or not, are brought up and live in a world where they are different. But it's human nature to want to conform.
Racial stereotypes point out the difference loud and clear: These people are different. The undertone that is always there, maybe subconsciously is, they need to conform.
But they don't need to conform; society needs to conform. Mankind needs to accept the biological fact that diversity is how evolution works, how society improves and how we progress.
Apu knows this. He is probably smarter than most of the characters in The Simpsons (my experience has been that the average Indian-American is smarter than the average white American) and has a gentle human kindness at his core that gives him tolerance of the idiots that walk the streets of Springfield and watch the show.
Make fun of me if you wish because I'm funny in many ways just like everyone else is funny is many ways. Enjoy it but don't take it so seriously.
5
To note, I am a non-white person with a wide and varied ethnic background. I also grew up with the Simpsons.
I understand why people are upset about the character. In theory.
However, every character on the Simpsons are stereotyped caricatures that are used to satirize the real world. That's the whole point. Willy is a hairy angry whiskey-swilling Scottish custodian who incites soccer riots. Cletus is a uneducated and poor hillbilly with 30 children and a girlfriend who is a stripper. Wiggum is a moronic lazy and obese and corrupt cop. Comic Book Guy is a neckbeard type who is smart but also pretentious lonely and antisocial. Bleeding Gums Murphy was a wise and soulful black jazz musician with addiction problems. And so on. Every character is a stereotype.
These characters are given these traits so we can readily identify their archetype. They are then given true personality specifics that deepen the character. This allows the world of the Simpsons to be fleshed out and filled so it is able to completely funhouse-mirror and satirize our real world and our real lives.
Now, would it have been nice if they were able to use an Indian actor to portray him? Yes!!! I think if this show was just starting now they would. But it didn't, they didn't, and now that the show has gone on (about 15 years longer than it ever should have as a total cash cow for Groening), this is happening.
And like Groening said, in a little while, people will move on to the next poorly chosen battle.
18
PC is about as amusing as any other form of puritanism. Like an inquisition there is a definite lack of levity. PC just isn't funny.
8
I like Apu - with Apu's wedding being one of my favorite episodes.
Also - Apu owns his own business and is happily married with children. By "The Simpsons" standards, he's the most successful man on the show.
Now about that offensive Krusty the Clown stereotype.....
6
You could take care of it by having Apu picked up by ICE for a badly misspelled word in his original green card application. Great opportunity to show what' happening to so many!
5
At least one curious aspect of some of the conversation surrounding this issue is to suggest a "solution" is to hire an Indian or Indian-American voice actor to portray Apu, and Indian or Indian-American writers to ensure that his character is written with the appropriate sensitivity. Given that six voice actors portray probably 90% of the voices on the show (and three of those voice actors, Castellaneta, Azaria and Shearer, do 88% of them), it seems odd to me, just from a production standpoint, that anyone thinks they'd hire a single actor to portray a single character. But maybe. I'm of mixed minds about the sensitivity issue--all the characters on The Simpsons are rendered with a pretty broad brush, and to good comic (and generally gentle) effect. On the surface, most of the millions of minor characters on the show are one-dimensional and stereotypical, and yet, over the course of years, many of them have had moments where some richer humanity is revealed. That seems to me to be The Simpsons' particular genius. My feeling, generally, where art is concerned--if you find something offensive, turn away from it.
8
I have seem the Apu episodes, although I rarely watch the show. While Apu speaks with an accent, I have never seen him portrayed as unintelligent or demeaned in any way. He sometimes advises Homer.
I just don't see where all the outrage is coming from. If he spoke with precise European english, would that help. The Indian people I know have an accent. So what?
8
I love to have a thoughtful conversation about anything, but topics like these are almost never given thoughtful conversation. They're generally mostly one-sided screaming matches. Thanks to Groening for keeping a level head.
12
As an avid follower (at 79) of the Simpson series I don't find anything mocking with the figure of Apu. I identify him with all those hardworking Korean and Vietnamese grocery shop owners on First Ave (close to 51st St) in NYC I experienced in 1983.
Concerning the accent I can tell you the following story as a fun fact: I was standing at the counter of a Pet Shop store in Lake Worth, FL ordering two new front lights for my 1981 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme Coupe Brougham when another customer standing at my left suddenly said to me "I love your accent". This happened in 1995.
You see, even an accent counts.
4
Apu is often the smartest guy in the room as well as the kindest and funniest and while I can't claim Indian lineage, I'm also not offended.
15
I am an Australian that enjoy(ed) watching the Simpsons and did not believe the Apu character to be offensive. I did however, believe it to be just as stereotypical as the Italian chef character Luigi Risotto. My father speaks and behaves just like Luigi due to the fact that he is also an Italian immigrant who could not shake the heavy accent and has the typical Italo-cultural quirks. We both laugh at the Italian mafia type-cast characters also, but again, are not offended by them either.
19
I was a child when the Simpsons started and loved the show from the start. That being said, I always felt a little uncomfortable about Apu in a way I didn't feel about the other characters. Though all the characters are indeed stereotypes, it felt like Apu's mannerisms and accent was more apt to be used for mockery. Though he was certainly a step up from the only other Indian-American character I can think of from the era (Fisher Stevens in Short Circuit in full brownface geesh).
I also truly enjoy Apu and think the Simpsons deserve credit for giving him a fleshed out character and backstory. But it is time to evolve. You can argue that the Simpsons helped give a voice to more diverse people in media as it has served as a critic of the society it satirizes so well, and I think it is wrong for them not to listen when voices speak up from diverse groups who are affected.
I don't think Apu has to go away, but maybe he can be voiced by an Indian actor and the Simpsons can incorporate some Indian writers to give the character a more authentic voice. But who knows. I think the Simpsons may have run its course. I don't really watch it anymore regularly and have not enjoyed the few more recent episodes I have seen. All things have their time and you have to bow out or change sometimes.
4
There are too many comments that equate satirizing a middle aged, fat white dude to stereotyping an under-represented individual of a minority group. They are two completely different things. A group of people (ie. white people) who are constantly seen in the media, with a wide spectrum of personalities and experiences, both good and bad, and are just considered the norm, can be satirized without societal or cultural repercussions. On the other hand, people of color (like the character Apu), are often mischaracterized and pigeon-holed in a one dimensional, stereotypical way. Big difference people. And that’s what the problem is.
17
When I moved to the States from India, one guy I dated had "Thank you, come again!" in "Indian accent" for me the morning after. I had never seen The Simpsons before. He was chuckling; I was not. To think Apu was his only exposure to Indians/Indian Americans left an unimpressive impression on me. The broader issue to ponder upon for all people of different backgrounds in America is exposure. An American's vote is decided if some country gets bombed or not. Knowing more about the people that our decisions affect would go a long way. Moving forward, I hope we don't have to rely on Apu to formulate our understanding of 1.3 BILLION people.
14
I was an early reader. Unfortunately, I was also an early talker. My caretakers found out quickly that putting a book in my hands would shut me up.
In the 1940s, my mother and her sisters read through a set of around fifteen books about ‘The Bobbsey Twins’. Because they were “adult-approved” books with no pictures (my favorite kind) I read the whole set, twice, once at the age of 4 and again at the age of 5.
When my grandmother decided to downsize to a condo, the first thing I asked for were ‘The Bobbsey Twins’ books. I had some hazy idea about handing them to a niece one day.
Thank goodness I actually plucked one from the bookcase and started to read it before I passed it on! I was horrified at the gleeful racism that blanketed those pages. All I remember from those books is a beautiful, idyllic lifestyle. I did NOT remember the (many) parts of the ‘lifestyle’ that were made possible by a huge staff of “always happy to see you” persons of color.
None of my nieces will ever read those books, but I can’t bring myself to throw them away, either.
8
The answer to the problem is to hire one of the new Indian comics as writer and reboot the character.
5
When my non-Indian friends try to mimic Apu, I find that funny not offensive. Love the Simpsons show. I agree with Matt Groening that nowadays people love to be offended. The push back to such excessive political correctness is to vote for someone like Trump who seems to disregard political correctness.
11
@Prasad
Americans don't "love to be offended." Rather, today's Americans have the courage to call our cultural phobias what they are and demand we attend to the ways in which those outlooks--whether unwitting or deliberately malicious--negatively impact our society.
Besides, what makes the cultural right's views any less "politically correct"?
6
Well that one took a turn.
Jackie
Fair point :)
1
"Back in the day, I named the character after the Apu Trilogy by Satyajit Ray. I love Indian culture and Indian film and Indian music. I thought that the name was a signal that we had, at least, a scholarly intention."
And Apu's last name, "Nahasapeemapetilon," an invented name you probably thought humorously resembled a long Indian surname - what sort of intention does that signal?
All the commenters who bring up Apu's humanity or romanticism in later episodes of The Simpsons might want to watch again and consider the defining features of the character. Apu is first and foremost a sleazy, negligent convenience store owner. He's laughably cheap and doesn't care about sanitation or safety. His main motivation is to push substandard products on his customers. In short, he's a negative stereotype, with other details filled in later.
Just so that no one can miss the point, imagine if a satirical TV show about an American town included a greedy Jewish moneylender with an outlandish accent and an invented name like "Saul Blumenrosenbaumowitz." Would we find this acceptable if later episodes featured Saul's softer side, Saul getting married, and so on?
For most Indian-Americans of my generation, Apu was a source of humiliation and "humorous" misunderstandings at school. "Thank you, come again!" Maybe, just maybe, it's not for others to say "get over it, it's comedy." Maybe others should listen carefully when it's explained why it's been a problem.
35
All of the Simpsons characters can easily be dismissed as caricatures. Homer Simpson shovels donuts in his face like a duck and shoved a crayon up his nose, BART is a bad seed, Lisa is a know it all, Marge is a compulsive gambler, Flanders is an annoying bible thumper, Dr H laughs at inappropriate times, Krusty is a drunk...but that isn’t their whole story. You can choose to scratch the surface and reduce them down to a few brief brush strokes or actually watch every single episode of 29 seasons and see how how their characters change and development-because if truly all everyone was watching was one dimensionless poorly drawn cartoons acting out the same tried stereotypical jokes, this show would not have lasted for 3 years let alone almost 3 decades
2
Dear Bluelotus,
As for a satirical TV show about an American town with the main character of a greedy lawyer posing as Jewish, named Saul Goodman, it exists. Also, when Shakespeare's Merchant of Venice is staged, they don't rewrite Shylock to make him Christian instead.
Maybe the humiliation you felt was due to other peoples' racism, which if it hadn't had Apu to use, would have used something else. Maybe a lot of humanity is racist and there's not much we can do about it yet.
1
So Apu's name was taken from a film or great artistic and cinematic reference and Matt Groening "loves Indian culture." So if that's the case and you truly want to honor that artistry (made by an Indian/SE Asian man) and that culture, why not hire an Indian or at least Indian-American to voice him? Don't you want to give opportunities and help develop the artistry and opportunity for this group given your love and admiration? I suspect they either never tried or couldn't find someone willing to voice the part as written, though I highly suspect it was the first option, which is lazy and not true to his stated love and passion for Indian culture and art.
As far as the "show me another Indian animated character" argument, Apu largely stands alone. But this does not justify the laziness in casting and developing this character as a stereotype. Extremely disappointed with Matt Groening. I would think someone as brilliant as him would understand the need for evolution and change. He has an opportunity to grow and improve this dialogue and increase good representation and opportunity for Asians in Hollywood and sadly he cares more about his own feelings and poor justifications.
12
"“Something that started decades ago and was applauded and inoffensive is now politically incorrect. What can you do?” As Lisa glanced at a picture of Apu, Marge Simpson said, “Some things will be dealt with at a later date.” .."
This is the least Groening & Co can do literally.
Ok, political correctness & awareness was different during the early days of the show but now you know. Claiming things were different then is not a free pass to continue on.
The portrayal of African Americans pre civil rights in movies & cartoons was very different because the powers that be didn't know any better but as times changed it stopped and is now largely viewed as embarrassing/insulting.
Only difference in this case is ethnicity/race. There is still largely a blind eye turned towards cartoon humor involving Indian/South East Asian/Native Americans inAmerican animation (Simpsons, any of Fox Cartoons) Any other group and this would not even be a discussion, it would just stop.
6
Long time ago I had a co-worker who hated The Simpson's because... her husband worked at a nuclear power plant -- now there's a class of worker's who could take offense...
7
Way back in Season 9, the Simpsons go to NYC. At the Statue of Liberty, Bart yells at an arriving ship: Hey, immigrants! Beat it. We’re full.
I don’t think that line would pass the test today, either.
10
No wonder so many well known comedians no longer do shows on college/university campuses.
10
Hey Matt - it's called "throwness" - or so Heidegger's Being and Time describes the power of powerlessness you are witnessing.
So... Apu talks like an the large majority of Indian immigrants and one of those immigrants is offended that the character sounds like him. Should he have a Mexican accent? An Appalachian accent? Oxbridge?
In that case, shouldn;t all the white incompetent and useless slobs complain? The Mormons? Please stop North Koreanizing the American sense of humor.
15
There would be no "taint" but for the very existence of the racist caricature.
1
Someone ought to mention that The Simpsons might just be the first show on TV featuring a character who is from India.
7
Groening seems to be a good example of white men not getting it. His response reminds me of conversations I've had with other white men, sometimes learned, thoughtful, "liberal" white men. For example this interview COMPLETELY reminds me of a conversation where a white man I know curled his lips at the mention of feminism because he felt feminism is just very boring and totally not cool and that feminists are nazi-like (that whole bit). "Really, George (that's me, that's my name)," the implication being that I should get with it quickly and just get back to loooooving masculinity with every bend of our conversations. This same white man I mention is a thoughtful screenwriter who admires Godard and Godard's challenges to traditional narratives (surely his love of Godard had nothing to do with Godard's misogyny).
Groening may be thoughtful and the Simpsons very good but we shouldn't let him off the hook about Apu just so we can enjoy Groening's next show. Its Groening who is tainted and as sad as that may be, he did it to himself. I'm still friends with this ignorant white man I've mentioned. I still go see his movies because there are interesting aspects to them. He still needs to be hit with a stick though. Good narrative, good comedy, shouldn't have to rely on stereotypes. Does that statement make me "uncool?" Too bad.
3
@George Groening's point is that we are all tainted (yes, even you, George) and you can thank satire like the Simpsons for pointing it out.
3
@George: "white men not getting it"
Are you stereotyping all white men? Aren't there differences of thought and belief among white men? This sounds like real bias to me.
5
Nothing about Krusty the Clown being so overtly Jewish, or Fat Tony, the mob leader being Italian.
This is ridiculous. The day after Hank Azaria told Colbert that he'd be willing to give up Apu if it "hurt" people, the season premiere of his series, "Brockmire," featured a (very humorously) debauched minor league sportscaster using a kid with cancer to get back to the majors.
While that character couldn't be seen, viewers knew that he was not quite 10 years old, in a wheelchair, using a breathing apparatus to stay alive...and, sorry...it was funny.
But for the constantly offended, I guess pediatric cancer doesn't make the "how dare you" cut.
23
@Alan Chaprack Krusty the Clown and Fat Tony weren’t the only characters representing their ethnicity in American pop culture, though. Ask Kazakhstani-Americans about Borat instead.
I’m not laying the blame fully on Groening. It was just a consequence of the lack of representation of South Asians in the American zeitgeist of the time. Creating the only mainstream Indian-American character ties your hands up a bit. Americans tend to not know anything about the films and music Groening says he admires, so their consciousness fills up with the sole stereotypical caricature available to them.
Thanks to Mindy, Kumail, Aziz, Priyanka and others for finally breaking through!
3
He has a PhD in Computer Science, manages a successful business, has a sweet Firebird, and was Springfield's most eligible bachelor for a number of seasons.
Yeah, his character is a parody of Indian stereotypes, but aren't ALL Simpsons characters that as well? Homer, the fat, uneducated slug, who still manages a living wage and home ownership despite being completely incompetent. Mayor Quimby of all politicians. Fat Tony of Italian-Americans. Reverend Lovejoy of all organized religions. Edna Krabappel representing burned-out public school teachers, and Principal Skinner, under-funded and underappreciated school administrators.
55
Anyone who actually sat down and watched the Simpsons would easily realize that there is nothing about Apu that is vicious or racist. He is one of the most honest, hardworking, loyal and kind hearted characters on the show. It is maddening to me to see people not understand this. The Simpsons, from day one, was SATIRE. They even took a shot at Bill Clinton's sexual deviancy by suggesting he would sleep with pigs. No one was safe. That doesn't make it racist propaganda.
30
Hank Azaria is NOT Caucasian! He is White. Most Europeans NO Caucasian DNA whatsoever, Stop using that term in place of White.
It is shameful for an obviously racially sensitive paper to be using a term that came out of German "race" studies of skulls 100 years ago (the same era that gave us "Negroid") that has been debunked as a misnomer. Europeans are not "Caucasian".
Just stop.
1
Really?! Where are the Caucasus Mountains locates then if not Eurasia?
7
This has got to be satire.
1
Correct, its a mountain range, not a genetic lineage.
Sorry Matt, as a long time fan of all your work, I can honestly say that you (as a satirist) come off as surprisingly thin-skinned. The episode in which you and the writers respond to the Apu debate seemed grumpy and ill-conceived. It also felt beneath your talents. After all, at the heart of this conversation is an honest and long-delayed attempt to address the very real challenges of representation in the media. Should a Sephardic Jewish actor voice a South-Asian character? Should a cisgendered actor portray a transgendered character? These are not "clunky" questions.
Far from a "tainted" conversation (which, by the way, is another method of curtailing meaningful dialogue), this presents the writers (and you, Matt) with a wonderful opportunity to offer some smart, sassy and cutting-edge leadership. After all these years, we all expect nothing less.
13
@CQ Dangerous And really, who cares if the conversation is actually clunky? It's still a conversation that needs to happen, and Groening's obvious discomfort with it is all the more reason.
1
I have enjoyed Groening's work since the early days of Binky, but he is missing the point here. This is an American TV show and the depiction of Apu is a sore point for (some?) Indian Americans who grew up with this sole stereotype on the tube. It doesn't matter what Indian Indians think in this matter. They are the majority in their country and are probably delighted to have any depiction of Indians in a Western hit show. But over here Indian Americans are tiny minority and the effect would be oversized by comparison. The solution might be simple. Apu represents the immigrant Indian from the 70's and 80's. Today's Indian Americans are 2nd and 3rd generation Americans. The show could include a character - perhaps one of Apu's kids - who is as Americanized as Bart or Lisa. This also reflects how Indian Americans are today portrayed on TV and movies; from Kumar in the Harold and Kumar movies, to the characters in today's sitcoms.
14
The Simpson's, at it's core is satire. Mostly societal, occasionally political, but always satire.
As a drunk, I am offended by the character Barney.
As a cop, I an offended by the bumbling Police Chief Higgins.
As a fat guy, I am offended by Homer's love of donuts (hmmm, donuts...).
Apu is no different. In fact, how many Indian-American characters have been portrayed on TV before or since?
We have to stop being offended and accept the satire as a humorous reflection of American society.
56
Clearly a lot of people haven’t actually watched much of the show - if you had you would know some of the episodes are entirely devoted to Apu’s character, which as others have noted, is treated with a lot of depth, empathy and care, more so than most other characters.
One of the things that made the show interesting, hilarious and smart was taking divergent forms like an animation (only for kids) to talk about non kid topics (hence some of the conservative uproar in the 90s) and a cast of stereotypes to satirize and talk about a range of issues in contemporary American society, including, yes, stereotypes themselves. The characters often act outside of their “typical” stereotypes and then veer back with a joke for cover before things get too serious.
Satire as a comedic form relies heavily on exaggeration and stereotype - Charlie Chaplin’s The Great Dictator is a perfect example. But under the guise of making fun of everyone you get to talk about some pretty serious stuff - the fact that we are all here offering a range of opinions is a perfect example of why.
26
I was nine when The Simpsons debuted; the show and Apu have had an indelible impact on my life for nearly 30 years, particularly growing up during the 90s as the child of Indian immigrants. Personally, I am grateful for Apu. Given the satirical nature of the show and his character, I often felt like I was “in on the joke,” at a time when I felt otherwise isolated. Apu arrived when there was a dearth of representation from the Indian community in American entertainment.
The show deliberately presents a stereotype and then uses humor to assail it—no target seems to be spared. The Simpsons subverts convention with incredibly nuanced social commentary disguised by comedy. These episodes highlight the complexity of Apu’s character and the Indian diaspora: Much Apu about Nothing, Homer and Apu, Lisa the Vegetarian, The Two Mrs. Nahasapeemapetilons, and Kiss Kiss Bangalore.
I once thought The Simpsons was a hallowed forum where sharp and candid social commentary could be freely expressed, but unfortunately there are fewer opportunities for honest conversations these days. Apu seems to be a symptom of this environment. Are we going to protest Bumblebee Man next?
84
Let's not forget that Homer--a white American middle-aged male-- is the chief object of satire in the show. He's well-intentioned, but deeply flawed in nearly every other way: intellectually, socially, emotionally, ethically, and a long etc. He follows in the feted footsteps of Ralph Kramden, Archie Bunker and Ray from "Everybody Loves Raymond". Should we begin a discussion of sexism and racism regarding them? If he's intellectually honest, the comedian Hari Kondabolu can't have it both ways.
28
@Rick - Not to undermine your point, but a small correction...Homer did not "follow in the footsteps" of Ray Barone; Homer precedes him by at least 6 years (9 years if you count the shorts on "The Tracy Ullman Show").
1
The problem with The Simpsons is not Apu. The problem is how after 10 years an incisive consistently funny show slid into lame, unfunny mediocrity but kept going in order to wring every possible dollar from an original idea.
7
Mr Groening's response is completely insensitive, noncommittal & feeble. Comparing a damaging racist stereotype to the outrage of kid stealing quarters to play video games is completely inaccurate. I feel like the excuse that people love to "get more offended" these days implies nostalgia for a time when women and minorities didn't speak up against unjust treatment or depictions. Only a privileged white man can lament the passing of the "good old days."
9
What a disappointment of an interview lacking in the subtlety I normally attribute to the Simpsons. Groening seems entirely unable to hear the other side due to his love of Apu. What started off clever became a troupe, maybe for the same reason. For many Indian Americans and South Asians who are not Indian but get confused with it constantly, Apu lost its humor once Apu became a stereotype attached to them. In America, people got teased for it. Maybe you don't want an annoying coworker calling you Apu all lunch break cuz he can't say your actual name and never once wikipedia-d the Apu trilogy; surely there's got to be a better joke! Or maybe, as stereotypes start, it became a lens for white people to see and treat South Asians, and at times the only lens, rendering us white people incapable of listening, hearing, and respecting the boundaries of those people. Then, once thoroughly ignored by the white society they live with, they get just a bit sensitive about Apu.
Since your wit is lacking Matt Groening, I thought I'd make it clear that the difference between those Indian and Indian American audiences is the living around white privilege and being denied everything from a promotion to respect because of it. If you doubt me, just remember the whole Harvard debacle around not letting Asian (including South Asian) students in at equal rates because they had "personality deficiencies" compared to every other white person.
7
Unless you also find Will & Grace characters Will and Jack offensive and so many other characters who partly behave in stereotypical fashion while otherwise being good and positive you are not being honest about this tempest in a teapot.
BTW calling you Apu is only an insult if you regard Apu as a bad guy. The intention you imagine or get by inference of the context the person saying it to you doesn't matter if factually the "insult" is not an insult. You have the right to be offended because the person was trying to offend you not because they mistakenly used a positive role model as the tool to berate you with.
The quality of the impression of an Indian accent done by an actor is up for judgment on its quality, not to make false claims of bigotry or to whine that its not an ethnically correct person doing it. That is bigotry.
7
...But Apu isn't yellow, he's brown. And there are black characters on the show, too. The yellow skin is not some post-racial philosophical choice, Matt. Stop giving yourself so much credit, and make some more Futurama already.
3
#BringApuBack
So-called "political correctness" is ruining this country. People need to find real things to get upset about. It's not that hard. Look around. Or, heaven forefend, watch the news for 5 minutes. You might just feel ridiculous for getting upset about a cartoon. Which you should.
21
@Nadia - it is not what the cartoon is by itself, but what it does. If you were, say, from Italy, and someone started doing an exaggerated Italian accent each time they saw you, would you tolerate that?
2
The following paragraph is about the film "The Problem with Apu". If you care about how Indian-Americans see Apu, read on...
Aziz Ansari (“Master of None”) describes being in a car with his dad when a man drives up and asks them where the nearest Quik-E-Mart is. Dr. Vivek Murthy, the 19th surgeon general of the United States, talks about enduring the taunts of an Apu-imitating bully in the seventh grade. And Maulik Pancholy (“30 Rock”) recounts how much he hated going into 7-Eleven stores as a kid, lest his friends see an Indian store clerk and start doing “the Apu thing.”
On the other hand, if you don't care how Indian-Americans feel about Apu, then by all means, go on pretending that there's no problem here, just like Matt Groening does.
10
Some Indian Americans feel that way; others don't. Maybe one of the problems here is assuming all members of a certain nationality feel any particular way about anything, or that they ought to. There's a word for thinking that all members of a group are the same... it's right on the tip of my tongue...
25
I dunno, l’m a little uncomfortable with Apu, but not in love with some reader criticisms either. One reader writes that Gruening’s “white male privilege is showing.” Really? That’s where we’re going? By expanding the number of persons who will be arbitrarily dismissed and disparaged? Next thing we’ll be instructed about “how these people are.” It’s cheap and easy but it’s essentially a substitute for actual positive social commitment. Please devote a minute to thinking this over.
17
Whew! Straight from the Harvey Weinstein School of Self Justification.
6
@Jay Why Really?! And trying to ham-fist a Harvey Weinstein reference into a comment section about Matt Groening's view about the debate on Apu is straight out of the Hyperbolic School of Trying to Connect Two Very Different People Who Have Noting To Do With Each Other, But By Referencing One When Talking About The Other It Makes Them Feel Connected And Therefore Of the Same Ilk School.....
18
I appreciate your cheek.
But both engage in a political correctness while exploiting ethnic and gender stereotypes to fulfill their Hollywooden egos and appetites. True Groening hasn't sexually assaulted anyone but his willingness to tread over the legitimate sensibilities of others shows a rapacious arrogance to stay on top and preserve the reputation of his "groundbreaking " show.
1
Groening is absolutely right to point out that "people love to pretend that they're offended." So Apu has an accent? So do a lot of Indian Americans. So Homer is an overweight, often ignorant sloppy middle-class white guy? Yeah, he is. Should any of this offend anyone? Of course not ... because it's satire. The fact that he even included an Indian American character to begin with is pretty progressive given the time frame the show was created. It's petty crusades like this that are killing the credibility of the progressive left ... which once cared enough about an artist's free speech to protect it.
40
I grew up with an Indian dad and a White mom. My dad worked a lot and did not really teach me much about Indian culture. Given the paucity of Indian people in my life, I really only had Apu to learn about Indian people. And as "nice" or "deep" as the character might be, he's a joke. When I went to school, I was greeted by Apu's ridiculous Indian accent from my friends. On messages from my classmates, kids drew "Kwik-E-Mart" signs.
It's not the Simpsons fault that Apu is the only Indian character on TV. But to be so dismissive of the challenges faced by Indian-Americans in response to the stereotypical portrayal is insulting. Hank Azaria responded appropriately. Groening comes off as a jerk. Certainly, more can be done to include diverse representations of Indians on the Simpsons.
21
@J
It's not the Simpsons fault that Apu is the only Indian character on TV.
What about Raj from Big Bang Theory?
1
@Che Beauchard
I meant "was" the only Indian character on TV. Growing up today, with more media representation, would probably be better than it was in the 90s. But still far from adequate.
Representation capable of capturing the diversity of human experience matters. I was particularly excited to see the half-Indian girl cast in the movie Blockers.
@J-If Apu was your only role model for Indian individuals, talk to your dad or go live in India for a while.
2
"Mickey Mouse pink"?
Some people are offended by stereotypes because behind every stereotype there are some truths. They may see themselves in the part(s) that they dislike. Welcome to America, the land of equal opportunity of being offended. We casually offend EVERYONE. To go after a cartoon character in a comedy is stupid. To disrupt the long, talented career of Azaria is also ridiculous. He should not have to apologize for his craft/art.
20
As an American of Indian origin, whose Indian parent didn’t speak with that accent, I am not offended by Apu’s accent one bit. I do find it funny. In fact, even my “Desi” (Indian) friends find it funny too. They actually laugh at how ignorant, stupid and stereotypical the common American is. What I’d like to see is for Apu’s children speak with an American accent, and to see them communicating with Anu and “Mummy” in competing accents...now, that’ll be very funny! And more like life!
20
New rule: Can rich white men stop telling everyone else how they are supposed to feel? Thank you.
8
How about EVERYONE stop telling everyone else how to feel? Including what to be offended by.
20
As a proud Scottish-American, I am offend by the portrayal of Scots in the character Groundskeeper Willie. He is a drunken, menacing, unkempt character who lives in a shed behind the school. Scots are rarely portrayed in the media, and while one of Scotland's greatest actors, Alan Cumming, is cast in starring roles, he must disguise his accent and pass as an American.
10
You never heard of Sean Connery, James MacAvoy, Ewan MacGregor, Gerard Butler, or Tilda Swinton?
Anyway, same rebuttal applies to those offended by Willie, it's not meant to be literal, relax. If you can't stop yourself from getting offended, then don't watch.
2
Apu is a wonderful character and a critical component of the Simpsons. He should be drawn as a stereotypical Indian image by an Indian artist and animator, and speak in a stereotyped Indian manner voiced by an Indian actor, preferably a transgender actor.
2
I was a Simpsons mega-fan. I was at just the right age to be swept up when it premiered, and I stuck with it the whole time, even those lean middle years, when at best you could expect one wan chuckle per episode. For 29 years, I did not miss a single episode. I could almost say I haven't missed a single MINUTE of the Simpsons, but there was one ep I hated so much I turned it off in the middle, and one segment of one Halloween show where I also had to jump ahead.
Anyway, after 29 years of this faithful viewership, Lisa addressing the Apu controversy quite unexpectedly ended it for me. I went into that ep not particularly bothered by Apu - I thought the critics had raised valid points, but I also fully expected the show to eventually have a thoughtful response. I thought it was just taking a while to show up due to the long lead time for animation.
But that broke my heart a little, to hear that aggrieved, clueless, tone-deaf, angry-old-man condescension coming out of the mouth of Lisa Simpson, tireless champion of the oppressed... I deleted the series from my DVR that night.
I fully expected to NEVER stop watching The Simpsons! I thought I was on board till whenever I or the show died.
And maybe I'll come back someday, but interviews like this make me think that theoretical day is coming either A. never, or B. far in the future.
So, here's at least one true fan & viewer who was seriously offended by this, for more than a week, and is not just pretending.
10
@Kevin: Obviously, you were never a true or long term fan. Lisa was being satirical as well.
3
I will readily admit my bias - I have been a huge fan of The Simpsons since the first season. I'll also admit I'm a white male. I've tried to empathize with Mr. Kondabolu's critique, and I do understand the gist of where he's coming from. I strive to inform myself about cultural differences and sensitivities. I live in a very diverse city and interact with a huge diversity of people (thanks to my work in the non profit sector). But I have to say that I find this whole argument greatly overblown. It's a CARTOON. It's a SATIRE. They have potentially offended EVERYONE over the course of 30+ seasons. I'm gay, yet I don't have a cow (pun intended) because every gay character fulfills the stereotypes of being gay (to my knowledge they have never presented an out gay male character who isn't an effeminate and sassy, or secretly hiding these characteristics as in Smithers). Mr. Kondabolu is certainly entitled to his opinion about Apu and to telegraph that opinion to the wider world. But let's keep in mind that NO ONE is forced to watch The Simpsons, and the writers/producers are not in any way required to react to, or placate, Mr. Kondabolu's criticism. I found the aired response to be funny and all that needed to be said. They acknowledged the criticism and got on with things. I wish others could do the same.
24
Billy Crystal as a gay character in SOAP in the 1970's was groundbreaking but he wouldn't be doing the character today. A better answer to this issue is--yes we were out front 30years ago but we got lazy and have not progressed the character. We can do better with Apu after 30years.
5
As I see it, ALL of the characters are over-the-top caricatures of the collective "melting pot" of humans in the community of Springfield. Apu is no more a stereotype than Homer or Marge or any of the others are. What makes the character of Apu exceptional is that he has often been brought out from behind the counter of the Quickie-Mart and exposed as more than a perceived stereotype. He has been revealed to be just as complex a human being as the other characters (except Maggie). It is testament to the genius of the writers that the character is positioned in a location that allows him considerable visibility. Perceived stereotype or not, he and his family are part of the Springfield community. It's a shame that the message of diversity and inclusion can be so easily dismissed.
13
Ouf, it would seem that plenty of characters on the show are not always the coolest people around, except for maybe Marge and Lisa. And not even always them.
1
There was a time when cultural stereotypes of Italians were perfectly acceptable-the street musician with the over sized mustache and the pet monkey speaking broken English. If I had seen that on TV in the 70's or 80's I would have been insulted and would have advocated that the character (albeit lovable and endearing ) be eliminated. The plots and characters of the Simpsons have not changed. Instead what once seemed edgy and humorous is now fluff. Listen to your critics and improve the Simpsons or just bring back Futurama.
4
Apu has always been one of the deepest characters on the show. He’s shown to be educated and very well-rounded. Just because he has an accent doesn’t mean it’s wrong. What about Cookie Kwan, Groundskeeper Willie, and all the other characters? Those complaining about Apu are not familiar with the show as it was...
19
@Chris McClure You're missing the point. Apu is voiced by a white actor without an accent, who is portraying a POC with a stereotypical Indian accent. This is a problem and needs to be addressed and recast.
6
@Chris McClure - No those complaining about it are Indian-Americans who have had to respond to requests to "do the Apu voice". Enough already.
5
@Abygail Mr. Azaria is just like the character in that both are racially Caucasian and have particular ethnic characteristics that are tied to each one's lineage. Further, both are AMERICAN! Mr. Azaria is an actor/voice actor; since when is an actor prohibited from portraying someone that he/she is not? Isn't that what acting is?
1
Matt Groening still doesn't really get it. The problem with Apu is that he's presented as being funny just because he's Indian. Homer isn't funny just because he's white. Being white isn't of itself funny, so Home was given a variety of specific characteristics that don't intrinsically have anything to do with being white, and those things make him funny. Apu could be legitimately funny if the funny things about him were specific to Apu and you couldn't just transfer them to some other character of Indian background, but that's not what "The Simpsons" has done. Mr. Groening needs to distance himself from his love for his characters to understand the controversy, which is a hard thing to do, but he needs to do it.
13
The bartender moe is definitely funny because he’s white, as is the mayor, Homer’s boss and most of all; Flanders. In fact, with the possible exception of the moral center Lisa, the show is equally adept at making fun of everyone. Get over yourself, man
11
"What did you mean when you said “people love to pretend they’re offended”?
That wasn’t specifically about Apu. That was about our culture in general. And that’s something I’ve noticed for the last 25 years. There is the outrage of the week and it comes and goes."
Wow, his White, male privilege is really showing. I've been a big fan of his for a long time, but this is deeply troubling.
12
What is deeply troubling about that? It's a pretty easy observation that anyone could have made, because it's true. Being offended has become a serious hobby, especially on the internet. All you have to do is start using words like "privilege" and "problematic" and "deeply troubling", without even explaining what you mean, and there you are,"on the right side of history". You don't even need any real opinions, the buzzwords will do just fine to signal how yours is the correct opinion. Serious hobbyists will then take it to the next level: boycotting the artistic works and businesses of famous people deemed "problematic", then level 3 consists of harrassing and doxxing regular people who make "deeply troubling" jokes or assertions on social media and getting them fired from their jobs. Level 4 is doing level 3 so well that the targeted person becomes an international pariah like that woman who made a bad joke on Twitter about AIDS. Again, this is all easily observable by anyone and one doesn't need any degree of privilege in order to state something so obvious.
34
@Chrissy Are you *deliberately* trying to prove his point?
9
Stop pretending to be offended when you’re only fishing for likes like the rest of the internet assicts?
3
Isn't EVERY character on the Simpsons a stereotype? Couldn't anyone who might resemble one of them be offended by it? The Simpsons white-guy characters aren't exactly uplifting role models.
25
@DKB - I thought the stereotype for an Indian-American is an engineer or a doctor - that's where you see most of us. For crying out loud - the US Surgeon General appointed by President Obama was an Indian-American. And yet people like Groening focus on the shop-owner with a "funny" accent? Let's be clear about this - Groening isn't looking for a fair represeantation of Indians in his show, he's looking for a cheap laugh.
6
We once had an Indian immigrant employee at my parent's liquor store. He told me when he first arrived to this country he couldn't understand why American adults watched cartoons because he thought they were only for children.
But intriqued by the character of Apu, he started watching the Simpsons. He found he loved the show and the character of Apu. He told me he was very pleased that his ethnicity was represented in American culture; not as a butt of jokes, but as an integral part of American society.
15
@Peace "..... he's looking for a cheap laugh." Doh! It's a CARTOON!!! Of course he's looking for a cheap laugh.
What sometimes gets lost in this discussion about The Simpsons is The Simpsons. For the better part of 31 years the show has always been about satire; mostly puerile, but quite often ingenious. That a satirical animated prime-time show has become an acceptable part of our pop culture for over three decades is in itself somewhat satirical; or ironic (probably both). White men do the voices for minorities (here's looking at YOU, Cleveland Show) and a woman is the voice of Bart Simpson. Enter Apu. Like it or not, his character and the stereotypic handling of all things Apu have been laughed at for a long time without much complaint until recently. It's SATIRE; asking it to be compassionate feels like a Monty Python joke. Let's instead look at the comedic landscape since The Simpsons arrived. There are successful comedies about African-Americans, Latinos, Philippine-Americans, Gays, Lesbians, and yes, Indian-Americans. Culture should always be discussed and we HAVE to strive for a better understanding, but are The Simpsons the problem or should we credit them with the innovation of diversity under cover of satire? It's certainly a topic that deserves continued discussion.
21
@Mark
"without much complaint until recently" - we haven't had a platform to congregate online and talk about these issues until recently. Hari's documentary is full of a lot of South Asians talking about how they were never OK with the character of Apu and how it made them feel. Just because this issue is new to some people doesn't mean it didn't exist until recently.
Being the subject of satire doesn't equate to being viewed as a whole person. I understand there are a lot of stereotypes on The Simpsons, but many of those stereotypes benefit from having a lot of other nuanced and complex representative roles in the media - cops, blue collar workers, nerds, etc. Apu was kinda it back then.
1
"we haven't had a platform to congregate online and talk about these issues until recently."
The Simpsons started when I was about 7 years old. I got internet access at 15. I am now 37. There are people who were born the year I got internet access who have now graduated college. I wonder how, in all those years, where so many people were born and grew up never knowing a world without both The Simpsons and the internet in it, that none of these people who were apparently sitting around silently being aggrieved by the existence of the character Apu, never managed to find a platform to congregate online and talk about these issues until recently. You'd be amazed at the groups of people who have managed to congregate online and talk about other things, mundane things, crazy things, lurid things, disturbing things, yet somehow, this massive group of Apu haters who have totally existed this whole time has never found a platform, anywhere. Amazing.
4
@Mark BONEHEADED error in my letter. It should be Asian-Americans. See? THAT'S why I need more enlightenment. Apologies.
2
This interview also reflects a lack of diversity at the Times. I think an Indian American writer who truly understands the context for the criticism of Apu would have asked more pointed questions and taken Groening to task for some of his more ignorant or tone deaf responses. The issue around Apu is not the same as all the other stereotypes represented on the Simpsons. Yes, the Simpsons, which I have loved since childhood, make fun of many cultures, but when for decades Apu is the only mainstream representation of an immigrant population in the US it holds more weight. It becomes the defining stereotype, and for many doesn't even appear as a stereotype. I think the resistance from many white people comes from that fact that Apu was the only Indian representation they saw for so many years and whether they admit it, they identify that character as being an accurate representation. It is not, it is a caricature voiced by a white man. The reason many white people think it's an accurate imitation of an Indian accent is because that's the only "Indian accent" they really heard for so many years.
23
@Mathew: Not true Matthew! Apu's nephew was on the show and ran the Quick n' Fresh Mart. Who spells Kwick with a Q? Not everything has to be about diversey. I remember when the word "diversity" became a buzzword (only in the US) it never included Gays! In fact, many minorities didn't and still do not like Gays being included in the rubric of "diversity". Mint-Julep is great and has and has some memorable 'appearances' on the show. I hope to see more of Apu & his wife in season 30!
Matthew-when I step into many 7/11's around Chicago I never see a women running the business. Now that's something to ponder.
1
What’s fascinating about this debate is how it’s arguably based on a faulty analysis. Mickey Rooney is not offensive in Breakfast at Tiffany’s because he is playing a character of another culture – he’s offensive because the filmmakers had so little respect for that culture that they felt comfortable with deploying extremely bad art in constructing his character. Caricature and stereotype are at bottom bad art, and it’s this that is disrespectful – not the act of artistic representation itself. By contrast, consider the 1968 film “The Party”, where Peter Sellers applies his acting genius to creating an Indian character. This film was popular in India precisely because of his character, with no less than Indira Gandhi being known to regularly quote one of Sellers’ lines from the movie.
6
@Observer Birdie Num-Num.
1
The Simpsons has a black character (a doctor) who's constantly yuck-yucking in the manner of an age-old stereotype. The show also has a conspicuously Jewish clown, a conspicuously Latino "bee man" and an Italian-American character clearly identified as a Mafioso. So why is this all about Apu? The fact is the show is a comedy and the world its characters occupy only vaguely resembles our own. The portraits are uniformly affectionate even allowing for the clichés and exaggerations. Let it go, folks! There's plenty to complain about in the real world.
114
@stu freeman
Actually the black Dr. on THE SIMPSONS is a caricature of the Bill Cosby character Cliff Huxtable. Both are docs and wore awful sweaters ad laughed at their own bad jokes. In fact, Bill Cosby actually became a bad joke.
5
@stu freeman I notice you're a white man, Stu--can you point out which Simpson's character is a white stereotype?
You can't, so you might pipe down about inviting others to "let it go." Put another way: you can easily choose to "let it go" when you're not affected, but since the dawn of time white men have been telling everyone else to cool out about racism. Maybe it's time for white men to cool out about telling people how to feel.
2
Dear Todd,
There are tons of Simpsons characters who are white stereotypes. Homer: typical working class obese white guy. Mr. Burns: white upper-class Republican type. Chief Wiggum: obese white cop. Groundskeeper Willie: working class Scotsman. Fat Tony: mob boss. The list goes on and on. Hopefully that answers your question.
2
It seems like a convenient cop-out to say the conversation around Apu is “now tainted.” I’m South Asian and I’ve always loved the Simpsons. But I am rather disappointed in Mr. Groening’s feeble response. He should take a little more responsibility and recognize that what might be humorous and sweet to him (i.e, a middle-aged white/yellow man) might not be so funny/endearing to brown people (i.e., Indian-Americans in this case). And just because a show is popular and profitable does not mean that it’s not offensive or insensitive. Also, saying you’re sincerely sorry is always a good way to start a conversation if you want to reach mutual understanding and respect.
23
@Zareen: I'll remember that when I'm in S. Asia and demand that my American accent be recognized as normal.
2
So, the character of Apu be less stereotypical if he was voiced by an Indian actor? What difference would it make when viewers can't see the actor? If a character is Catholic, should he/she be played by a Catholic actor, or does this only extend to nationalities? If the character is a blonde, should only natural blondes be able to play the part--no wigs allowed? What about a production like "Hamilton," where Black and Latino actors portrayed characters who were White, or productions where women are cast in traditional male roles? I don't ask to be facetious, but I'm trying to understand this issue.
44
I think this is a fair question and it seems that you are trying to grapple over this this honestly. my answer would be that context matters. When you have a group such as Indian Americans or other people if color that experiences structural oppression (ie their oppression is baked into our culture and institutions) and that has less power, and especially less power to define themselves, you have a situation where comedy or satire or art can reinforce oppression. When the same type of comedy or satire is employed against bank executives, white people who can't dance, Italian Americans etc it doesn't have the same bite because these groups don't have to worry about losing jobs, being denied loans, being discriminated against by their partners families, or being physically harmed because of the consequences of the content of their stereotypes. so if the Simpsons did a piece on black characters being gangsters, it would be more offensive, and problematic, then Italian gangster thing they do. which is not to say that the Italian gangster thing is totally okay either, but it's on a different level. Black people get killed based on the stereotype of them being gangsters.
I think if anyone feels like the humor on The Simpsons is totally benign, I would suggest that they read articles by indian-americans on the topic, or other racialized groups that have experienced stereotypes in the simpsons. Thanks for reading.
3
Then the question becomes what "Indian" actor do you go with:
1) Indian-American or Indian or is Indo-British/Canadian permissible?
2) Which caste? cosmopolitan or rural Indian? Western educated or India educated?
3) Only Hindus, or are Muslim/Christian Indians allowed to play the role?
4) one who ordinarily speaks with an Indian accent or would it be permissible to have one who feigns an Indian accent?
You may not think these categories matter, but in 25 years, when the heart of Apu's identity will be debated around these categories, you better figure out the right answer right now.
In any case, be prepared now to defend yourself against accusations of insensitivity and bigotry by your sons and daughters, the next enlightened generation.
26
As someone who is of Indian origin, I'm happy with the way Apu is. Even if people make fun of me using that caricature, I wouldn't be offended. It's not a big deal.
68
@RamS For you. But to many other people it is a big deal, such a big deal, in fact, that people have made documentaries about dealing with it.
Look: this all boils down to manners. You may think something is no big deal, but if it disturbs the people around you, and you have manners, you'll stop. Apu was a fun character in another time, and times have changed. If the show values its viewers, and some portion of them (myself included) are offended by the way Apu is represented, the show can either mind its manners and stop offending them, or it can lose those viewers. It's that easy.
1
@Todd
If you don't like the show or its characters or the implications, don't watch. It's that easy.
1
@RamS
RamS real American who gets it!
Its a melting pot not a sectarian pot!
5
Take away the stereotypes and you no longer have comedy.
58
Groening is wrong on this and needs to stop acting like he is the victim. The issue he does not seem to get is that some stereotypes are offensive to a certain ethnic group. Remember how we had stereotypes in our culture that we no longer see, or that are much changed compared to how they were? The hairy Italian or Greek store owner? The wiry Irish newsboy? The argumentative, heavily accented Jewish uncle? The pretty female secretary who obeyed her male boss? The groveling, bowing Chinaman (or Japanese)? The Hispanic bad guys? The mom slaving away at home raising babies and baking cakes or her family.
Stereotyping one accent or behavior in a comedic setting gets old and when it does, it should be let go. Society needs to move on. Groening needs to understand this.
18
@Peace Yep. Apu should look like he does but sound like "us" and act like "us." THat's much better, isn't it?
And when will the other characters lose their accents?
6
@KM - "And when will the other characters lose their accents?"
As soon as enough people of their ethnicity start losing patience with being laughed at for the way they speak. Walk in our shoes for a while and you might just begin to understand.
1
Dear Peace,
Sorry but everyone gets laughed at for their accents at some point. People always think other people talk funny. In the northeast we mock Southern accents, down there they mock ours. "Sorry to Bother You", which looks like a hilarious film, has its running gag as the difference between ethnic accents.
I get that people are always going to be offended by something. I don't get why that's important at all.
I've got to agree completely with Mr. Groening about this. There are no other animated Indian or Indian-American characters that have as much depth as Apu. Yes, he speaks with the same accent that nearly every naturalized Indian-American does. Yes, he runs something like a 7-11, like thousands of Indian-Americans do.
But Apu is one of the best people in the land of the Simpsons, gentle, thoughtful, tolerant, occasionally romantic. Nearly all the other characters do dumb, selfish, and mean things, but not Apu.
What Mr. Kondalabu might have focused on instead, is why are there so few Indian-Americans in all of the media? CNN has a few in front of the camera, but Fox doesn't. There are a handful of movies with an Indian-American as the main character, but I can only think of six, and half are Harold and Kumar movies.
Anyway, I think attacking the Simpsons over using stereotypes is kind of silly, as the show is using them to indicate their presence in society, in a well-meaning way. And anybody who is attacking anything other than Trump these days is wasting their time on unimportant matters.
100
Lisa Simpson’s character gives us this Trumpian logic: “Something that started decades ago and was applauded and inoffensive is now politically incorrect. What can you do?” Racial segregation and gay-bashing started decades ago and were applauded too, Mr. Groenig. Because you, as a white person, were unaware of the views of South Asians or of their experiences does not mean that the sky was purple at the time. The answer to Lisa’s question is, “Stop.”
20
@neilends
The answer to your rant is, "Stop watching."
8
@neilends-Lisa, trumpian? It is to laugh.
1
@neilends The answer to Lisa's question is don't stop. Don't ever stop.
Mr. Groening is making fun of racists who see all South Asians as Apu.
If I were of that ethnic group, I might be upset about how much of a caricature Apu is--until I realize that all the characters are caricatures. That's the point of the show, making fun of everyone. Or am I just being inconsiderate and cynical?
37
@Mike S. You are not.
2
@Mike S.
Most of the other characters are charicatured on things like their occupation (lazy cop), their behavior (buffoonish dad), etc. The humor around Apu primarily centered on his accent and his religion. Plenty of low-brow references to Ganesh, etc. That's the difference and that's why people are offended.
1
apu, named for film character in a movie once famous, should stay. too bad most people know nothing of the film.
13
@cherry elliott - the show has nothing to do with the film. They're just using the name and associating it with a "funny" accent.
9
App is an Indian character with an Indian accent. Is that really a problem - can you not have an immigrant character on TV? Or is it that the voice is by Hank Azaria who is white? It's acting. Hank Azaria does lots of voices on the show - one website listed 24 characters. All the voice actors do multiple characters - different genders, accents, a few different non-yellow skin tones. Bart is voiced by a woman - should they cast a male? Meryl Streep isn't Polish, but she was amazing in Sophie's Choice.
70
It's worth acknowledging that Apu has been at the center of more than one episode of The Simpsons that sympathetically addresses the challenges facing immigrants. Viewed more broadly, as the writers evidently intended, Apu has become a positive symbol for immigrants and decency in immigration policy.
61
@Matthew Bilder
It is nice of you to say that, but I can't agree that he is a symbol for anything of the sort. You can only really make that claim if you see a positive outcome for immigrants. The fact that Indian-Americans are speaking out against this character means that they do not see him as beneficial to their status. The fact that American viewers basically only take away the accent means that they are not really getting anything positive about immigrants issues.
5
@laukialoo
Only a few self-righteous scolds are speaking out. They're entitled to their opinion but shouldn't watch further if they find the show offensive.
1
What’s truly troubling is that The Simpsons is still on the air. It should have ended 15 years ago. The first 10 seasons were brilliant (especially the first 6 or so). Nothing could touch it. But it’s now simply unwatchable and has been so for many years. The controversy probably wouldn’t exist if the show had died the natural death it deserved around 2000.I doubt that If The Simpsons were starting today, Groening and company would even include an Apu character.
This points to a problem with animated series.... they can go on forever, well past their spoilage date, because the characters never age and the invisible voice actors, whose age is irrelevant, never tire of the gig (they can also continue doing other things). It just seems like a big cash grab now. Oh, how I pray that the brilliant Bobs Burgers, which is in its prime, doesn’t fall into this trap and knows when it’s time go stop.
9
Groening says "I love Indian culture and Indian film and Indian music. I thought that the name was a signal that we had, at least, a scholarly intention." Then why not hire an Indian actor to voice the character?
14
Should they also hire an Indian artist to draw the character?
16
@Sarah
Nancy Cartwright (a woman) does the voice for at least 3 male characters with Bart Simpson being the main one. Should we now insist that they hire a male to voice Bart?
29
@Sarah As someone wrote earlier, why not have a blond be the voice of a bimbo? Or have a low class white slob be the voice of Bart instead of the woman who's been doing his voice for 30 years? Actors are artists. Anthony Quinn played Zorba the Greek. He was magnificent, but he wasn't Greek. Of course, there are instances that are unacceptable, like white people wearing black-face to portray African Americans.
1
This is much ado about nothing. The convenience stores in our area are managed, and staffed, by Indians. The "Simpsons" might take some liberty with the characterization of Apu, but the program does mimic real life.
50
I once heard a radio documentary about comic theater in the Catskills. There were tapes played from Jewish characterizations in this theater that were loving and sympathetic. In comparison, the documentary also featured radio shows where the lexicon and accent was indisputably antisemitic. When I think of the Apu character it seems somewhere in the middle. It is clear that we are not to look down on or resent the character but at the same time I am sure no one who posted comments would be surprised to find that many Indian Americans have been derided by other American children,and some adults, by jibes that refer to the character. One can only wonder if that would have been the case if Apu had been a physician or an academic, areas where so many Indian Americans have found distinction.
6
It's the accent, other than that Apu was given more than an adequate amount of depth. To me this whole spectacle is just another way to politicize popular culture, and given how anything these days actually requires politicization to survive, I would say this is some good PR for the Simpsons.
7
It is worth pointing out that Apu was named after great filmmaker Satyajit Ray's main character from "World of Apu". That alone Inherently gives the character a depth and understanding. The inference is that after all the hardships endured in a Ray movie - Apu is the guy you meet behind the counter - so think about it.
And how can anyone who has witnessed Apu singing "Quicky Mart" ever think there wasn't love and nuance put into him as a character?
61
Forget Apu. It's the Bart character that, starting from the very first show, taught millions of kids that lying and cheating and sassing all adults is cool!
12
Ah - kids learned to lie, cheat, and sass from a cartoon character. I was wondering how that came about.
11
The character is fully flushed out but it would probably be helpful if he was no longer voiced by a white man. Comedy Central reportedly has a policy against voicing certain ethnicities with white actors, which seems to be a good rule.
3
@T Montoya
I believe Dr. Hibbert is voiced by a white man, and so is Carl, Lenny's pal, and so is the African-American cop, whose name I don't know. Oh, and Bee-Man, who speaks only in Spanish, is also voiced by a white man.
5
Why is their no uproar for the character Raj on The Big Bang Theory? His character is mocked by the character Howard all of the time.
32
@susan Because Raj's character is played by an actor of Indian descent. Apu was voiced by a white man - that's a pretty important difference.
8
It’s a cartoon character. It’s not a him. It’s a cartoon character. Just ask Dan Quayle.
4
@Sarah
Please explain why it makes a difference.
1
...And I think it’s a time in our culture where people love to pretend they’re offended.” At every glance we are being told what should offend us, what cause we should take up. If we look close enough we can find a problem with just about everything. I guess as a society we started looking “close enough”. It’s a bit too much for me, I’ll just sit back and choose my battles.
39
It is interesting to read that the character's first name is an homage to a great Indian film director, but let's not forget that he was given a last name, "Nahasapeemapetilon", arguably meant to be comically long. It is understandable that some would find this attempt at ethnic humor to be offensive.
4
But it's ok for Homer to be an exaggeration of a working class man? Homer is also ethnic humor? Or is white ethnic humor ok?
6
You can make the same observation about Family Guy's Cherry Chevapravatdumrong. Her last name has the same number of letters as Apu's! A comical coincidence?
No, that's actually her last name. She's an executive producer and writer. I lived in Thailand. I’ve been to India. And I'm here to tell you there are some pretty long last names out there.
So there’s a basis in fact. But if Matt Groening gave Apu a long last name for comic effect, isn't that the point of the show? It’s always been full of stereotypes. It's odd that we're focusing on Apu to stir controversy. We could have chosen, long ago, any of the countless other stereotypes. Why the Punjabi? And why now? As an Italian-American, should I be offended that we’re not just as outraged by Luigi the chef or the mobsters? Why is the south Asian stealing the spotlight from my people? #nomore-a-luigi
No, the show hasn't changed. The times have, and not always for the better. What Matt says is true: People love to pretend they're offended. Haven't you noticed? It's a thing. This will die down, and it’ll be something else. The offense du jour. People are in a mood to protest. They just need to focus on the actual problem this November.
You know what I just found out? The voice of Sea Captain isn’t performed by an actual sea captain (or pirate). Shame!
25
Apu is one of the nicest characters on the show! He is shown as kind, patient, modest, and friendly. Every character on the show could be seen as a "stereotype". Homer himself is a broad charicature of a working class Wasp dad. Their neighbor Ned seems to be a satirical Evangelical Christian. etc. The clown is Jewish. Etc. Just sayin'...
137
WASP? They’re always talking about being broke. They come across more blue collar.
5
@yellow rose Homer is definitely not a WASP. He's a blue collar working guy.
13
@PubliusMaximus
WASP is White Anglo-Saxon Protestant. How is that mutually exclusive with blue collar working class?
Most of the blue collar working class in the "Springfields" of the nation are WASPs.
1
I remember an episode where Rev. Lovejoy condescended to Apu, but categorizing his religion as "you're... whatever." To which Apu responded, "Hindu. You know there are several hundred million of us." With Lovejoy replying "Ah, that's super."
In that moment, as a child, I fully empathized with Apu and other marginalized races/ethnicities and made it a point to understand their place in America and their place in the world. Perhaps people fail to realize that Lovejoy is the villain and Apu is the character that demonstrates the plight of the immigrant while being a stereotype on the surface.
274
I challenge anyone to find a source of comedy that is not offensive to someone...
196
@Zack MD
Or a Cartoon Carachter that is not a "Caricature".
On the Simpsons alone we have stock Caricatures of an oafish blue collar guy (Homer)
A miserly Evil boss (Burns)
A nerd (Millhouse)
A "perfect neighbor" (Flanders)
and yes an immigrant clerk (Apu) complete with an accent.
17
@Zack MD Nicely said. Yet a consistent theme reflecting those insulted and demanding change has emerged. Something to consider.
2
@Ignatius J. Reilly
The other examples you cite are making fun of a character for what they *do* - and therefore could change.
Making fun of a character for what he *is* - and can't change - is something completely different.
3
As an Indian-American, I can say that the character of Apu may be typical, but it is not stereotypical. Apu has some characteristics that can be seen in some Indians. Similarly, Little Britain has some characteristics that are seen in some English. So what? Indians laugh at these characteristics as well and recognize that they are blown up just to emphasize their uniqueness.
More likely than not, it is the outliers in Indian characteristics that western entertainment will focus on. Hence Peter Sellers' playing an Indian in "The Party" and Indians feasting on chilled monkey brains in Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom (examples cited by Mr. Kondabolu). It is going to be pretty boring to western audiences to sit through depictions of Indians doing ordinary things. That does not make these outliers racist.
Everyone should just lighten up and enjoy the show.
230
"“I’m proud of what we do on the show. And I think it’s a time in our culture where people love to pretend they’re offended.”"
Not pretending - I'm Indian and am offended. What jerks like Groening don't realize is that people watch this nonsense and then think it's a great idea to go talk to their Indian friends with that accent. By creating an offensive stereotype, and then doubling down trump-style, Groening is exemplifying the ugly side of the USA that immigrants have to endure day after day. Well - this is us speaking back at you - drop the accent - drop the character, we don't like it.
66
Dear Aucontraire,
Surely you know the Simpsons didn't create that stereotype. Don't know if you're familiar with Apu, but his character has a lot of depth, and is depicted as one of the best people in Springfield.
But if you would prefer that Indian-Americans not be represented at all in the media, I suppose that situation would be possible to restore.
21
@Dan Stackhouse - the point isn't about who created the stereotype, but about being sensitive to what one ethnicity finds offensive. See how many regularly used stereotypes in Hollywood films are now never seen... it is because they were no longer found palatable. This is exactly the case. You might find him agreeable, but plenty of us do not.
3
Well then Laukialoo, since everything will invariably be found offensive by someone, I suppose we should eliminate all media for fear of offending somebody.
5
The bottom line is that if there is a problem, it is the lack of representation of Indians in movies and television. Do not blame The Simpsons for actually having an Indian character in the 90's. I cannot think of another one in between Apu and Kelly on "The Office" or Tom on "Parks and Recreation". The problem lies with Hollywood at large, not a cartoon show that actually created an Indian character.
97
But why is this Hollywood's problem? As of 2018, Indians are barely 1% of the United States' population. According to a 2000 census, they were even smaller: 0.6%. Imagine how much smaller they were back in 1990, when Apu made his first appearance in the episode "The Telltale Head". It also doesn't help that the majority of Indians, like a lot of Asians, don't study acting, directing, or writing.
If you want to see Indians in movies and television, then go to the country where 1,320,000,000 of them live...you know, India? The home of Bollywood? The Indian film industry is the largest in the world. It's not like Indians are these invisible people you never hear about.
19
@TomMoretz - that one percent argument is kind of silly. We are also more than 3% of the engineers, 7% of the IT force and 8% of doctors. Nearly 20% of startups are led by Indian-Americans and our median income is $100,000, more than twice the national median. Microsoft, Google, Pepsico, and many other leading American companies are led by or have Indian-Americans among the highest ranks.
So yes - a character with a funny accent running a store is really, so 30 years out of date. Just like the show and its creator.
1
@TomMoretz, of course I expected to see tonedeaf comments like this. So you're saying, in others words, "go back to your country." This is about the Indian-American experience, which is completely and utterly different from the Indian experience. On it's face, it is a racist premise to assume anyone's country of origin based on race. And even if you are correct in your 1% assumption, that's still over 3 million people of Indian origin living in America - more than the total population of quite a number of U.S. states - who have been virtually unrepresented in American popular culture. You are also basically saying that all underrepresented minorities should be thankful for any crumbs falling from the pop culture dinner table, including one-dimensional ethnic stereotypes? Uh, no thanks.
2
Mr. Groenig can’t find an Indian person or one of Indian descent in all of Hollywood to voice the Apu character? He can’t even make this slight change? Or how about an Indian writer for show?
Diversity needs opportunity.
This is why Hollywood is slow to change and moving at a glacial pace.
41
@LPG Indian writers would be a great addition. An Indian person to do Apu's voice would have to be a voice actor that could do multiple voices. There is only one regular actor on The Simpson's who does just one voice (Yeardley Smith as Lisa). It seems like most prime time cartoon shows require voice actors who are hired to do multiple characters -- or else the character they voice makes fewer appearances.
8
How would having someone of Indian decent doing Apu’s voice change anything? Would it change the stereotypes? No. If the show hired an Indian voice actor, would there be a problem if that actor voiced a non-Indian character? The character of Apu may be a stereotype, but it’s not mean-spirited that I can see in my white maleness.
13
@LPG: The actors who work for the show voice numerous characters. One actor wasn't hired to play only Apu, one to play only Homer, etc. Given the large cast of characters, that would be prohibitively expensive.
3
Freedom of speech means Groening can express himself as he likes. It also means those who are genuinely offended by him can point this out - as Kondabolu rightly did. Neither Groening nor the NYTimes have the right to decide whether being offended is right or wrong. It is a response felt by individuals or an ethnic group. Just as they respect your right to be creative - and use ethnic stereotypes where you cannot be original, so you need to understand their feelings.
48
The last paragraph does summarize it rather well. You'll find several stereotypes on The Simpsons, many of which could be seen as offensive if you really want to take them personally. Like Reverend Lovejoy, for example, a disillusioned reverend that openly violates Christian principles (e.g. getting his dog to drop one on Flander's lawn, cursing (or at least as close to cursing as the show will allow), gambling, etc.) and has the town gossip as his wife. Don't you think reverends or any clergy person, for that matter, could take offence to that if they wanted to, instead of just laughing at the goofy cartoons?
Likewise Chief Wiggum, whom despite being overweight, lazy, corrupt, unintelligent and incompetent at his job still manages to stay in charge of a whole town's police force. I don't know about you, but I think police officers could take this as an offensive stereotype too, if they wanted to, instead of taking The Simpsons the way we're meant to take it, as a satirical and goofy commentary on society.
179
There's a difference between stereotyping people by profession and by ethnicity or gender. We are born with ethnicity and gender. And just because something is funny -- God knows I've laughed at many racist jokes! -- does not justify the harm that it does. I also think that in many cases a joke can be reworked to NOT be offensive but still be funny, although this isn't always the case and might not work for Apu. Many of the jokes friends send me that feature Irish or Jewish characters, for example, or blonde women, for that matter (I'm brunette), don't truly rely on the stereotype to be funny -- just on someone, of undefined ethnicity or appearance, saying or doing something odd.
@Virginia Graziani Thank you for enlightening me on your position. I do respect your position, although I may not agree with it.
I can think of another potentially offensive stereotype that is portrayed in The Simpsons that people tend not to talk about. I suspect you'll concur with me that gays, like everyone, have no say in their orientation, hence putting that on par with race as something we are born with, right? All the gays in The Simpsons that I can think of are effeminate and have a clearly effeminate voice, although I'm sure you're aware that is not true of all gays in real-life. The fact it portrays all steel mill workers gay may also add to people calling it offensive.
You'll also find what you might call offensive stereotypes when the family visits foreign lands like Australia, Brazil, China and Japan. Where someone is born is something that they cannot change too right?
@Brenton Horne
It's different when it's about race, not profession. Jesus Christ. How are people taking this comment seriously?
It's really reprehensible when white people, men in particular, feel the need to tell people of color what should be important to them, or be condescending to their concerns about stereotypes and racism. This is simply a power issue and Groening, nor the writers for the Simpsons want to be told how and what to do.
And if the conversation is tainted, it's not because Hari, or any other Indian-American ( that comment about Indians and Indian-Americans was also offensive. Just because you went to India doesn't mean you have the foggiest idea about anyone from that country.) has pointed out that Apu is problematic, it's because the creators of the Simpsons refuse to see Apu's place in a bigger discussion about representation. And Apu is not the only character who can use a makeover (Lenny, Dr. Hibbert, the bumblebee also come to mind.)
Also, the way you handled it with Lisa...y'all should be ashamed. Using children, even animated ones, is a lazy way to start or end a dialogue about anything. Shame on you.
72
@Erica
I'm confused by your criticism about using the character of Lisa to discuss the controversy about Apu. Have you regularly watched the show? The "child" Lisa has for decades been the philosophical voice of reason, compassion, and uncomfortable truths on The Simpsons! How is using her in this way now shameful?
18
It's really irritating when people sum up all white people as a monolithic group and insist that they can or can't do or say things because they're white.
I'm white, and if that means to you that I can't voice my opinion or I'm always going to be wrong, then there is no point in my discussing anything with you, or paying attention to your complaints.
6
Well-put. I doubt, though, that the Simpsons creators/writers will understand your comments. They appear to be clueless.
1
This would have been one of those typical "I'm sorry if I offended," except that Groening doesn't seem particularly sorry.
It's more "blame the victims." I didn't intend any harm. It was all in fun. Can't anyone take a joke anymore? What's the rumpus?
Just like nobody honored the Native Americans' complaints about the tomahawk-waving that went on at Braves games and Florida State games. I heard more commentary then that said, "they shouldn't be offended." As if being offended is necessarily a choice. You are or you aren't. And white guys on radio can hardly be in a position to evaluate what's offensive to any minority group.
And "I love the Indian culture." Sounds a lot like "some of my best friends are black."
33