I agree with the author’s premise, but why is it is okay for most Times readers to be pro-abortion and pro-immigration. Reminds me of a Honda I saw years ago driven by a twenty-something woman. Left bumper sticker: Save The Whales. Right bumper sticker: I’m Pro-choice and I Vote. Neither side of the political chasm has a monopoly on hypocrisy.
3
The so-called pro-life movement has NEVER cared about children, especially minority children. Pro-life means pro-control of women's bodies and women's right to choose what they want to do with their bodies. Pro-life means anti-sex, at least when it comes to women deciding when and how they want to have sex. The pro-life movement don't seem to have any problem with their fearless leader having unprotected sex with a porn star and a Playmate.
So-called pro-life advocates don't care what happens to the fetus the second it's born. They don't care if it has decent healthcare, leaves in a safe neighbourhood or goes to a school with actual schoolbooks. The so-called pro-life advocates just want to punish a woman for having sex and force her to have a baby.
Watching Sessions quote the Bible made me gag and also made me wonder if there really is a God after all. If such an bitter, evil, twisted man can quote Scripture and not get struck down, how can there be a just God?
33
You can’t be pro-Universal Healthcare, pro-Medicare, pro-Social Security, pro-education, pro-living wages for American Citizens while simultaneously AGAINST protecting our national borders from illegal migration.
Sorry, but we, the people, can no longer afford to feed, house, educate, and provide healthcare, living wages ormwelfare for the teeming masses of foreign nationals swarming across our borders...or those attempting to do so. The quality of life of our own citizenry is already suffering the consequences of that burden. Enough!
1
Pro-life never was pro-life but anti-abortion.
They are spineless, mindless, and heartless people who profess to be Christian but are nothing more than frightened excuses for human beings who would use children to further their hate.
We must stop these abhorrent people at the polls. Don't believe that the GOP in Congress will not help anyone but themselves.
23
Bishop Flores says taking babies away from their mothers is intrinsically evil. That means there are no circumstances that might alter the judgment of an evil act, and that means that Border Guards may not morally enforce the White House/Justice Department directive. Sometimes one has to choose between masters.
7
Teenagers from corrupt and violent countries crash the border and our response is to welcome with open arms -- no questions asked? It was an issue that Bernie used to bully Hillary. It was an issue that elected Trump.
Meanwhile, over 100 Mexican politicians have been assassinated in the last year. The authorities are clueless. So is American journalism.
2
Can the Trump administration really be this bankrupt of ideas?
This is like the cops in the 60s who couldn't think of anything but using fire hoses and dogs on young people protesting civil rights abuses. Sessions and Sanders throwing biblical justifications was plain old sick.
This speaks to the poverty and desperation in the GOP right now. Get some people who know what they are doing in there to work with families and get some laws that are not about the fantasies of Stephen Miller rich boy types who only have the vaguest abstractions in their heads about solving social problems, and only know for sure that they hate people.
17
"You Can’t Be Pro-Life and Against Immigrant Children"?
Of course they can, after all they can be even more illogically pro-life and pro-the death penalty.
11
There are good people out there trying to send help to these children and their parents. Here are some groups that need our support:
Together Rising, Al Otio Lado, The Florence Project, RAICES, Pueblo Sin Fronteras, Border Angels, Texas Civil Rights Project, NETA, South Texas Pro-Bar, Act Blue Charities, American Immigration Council, #FamiliesBelongTogether.
https://act.credoaction.com/sign/families_belong_together?sp_ref=4173505...
Send them money, donate your time, tell your friends. They all have websites and more information there on what they do.
We also need people to post the names and addresses of any detention centers so that protesters know where to go. It appears most of these “shelters” are incognito in their communities. Almost like the administration is trying to hide how and where they are abusing innocent vulnerable children, the least among us.
11
This is a nonsensical article. Women's abortion rights and illegal immigration are entirely separate issues.
3
Sure you can; ask the Republicans.
3
Not to worry, I'm sure the vast majority of Pro-Lifers are giving these children all their "thoughts and prayers". Isn't that enough...isn't that always enough? Seriously...you didn't really believe the Trumpkins would, or even could offer more, did you?
As others are pointing out...most often the people who claim to be Pro-Life are only anti-abortion. Once the baby is out, it's on its own. If some woman in Guatemala wants an abortion because she can't care for the child...too bad the Pro-Life Trumpkins would say...force her to have that child. However, if she brings the child to our borders and asks for asylum, no dice say the Trumpkins. Go home and DIE! is their response.
Of course, the Donald is trying to have his cake and eat it too. How Trump of him!!! He is separating children from their mothers while at the same time blaming it on Democrats. But there is no law that says we must separate children from mothers. But Donald and the Trumpkins don't care about your stinkin' facts....never have and never will.
12
The idea that just because someone shows up with no visa at the border, but with a kid or two, should be let in is preposterous. Do people even think of the implications of what they demand? I am surprised that such rubbish is fit to print in the New York Times. Or are we at a point where any rubbish, no matter how preposterous, is fit to print as long as it attacks Trumps or the Republicans? This is not the type of newspaper the founder of this paper had in mind.
2
All the more reason to dispense the 'pro-life' label. Call them anti-abortion if you must allocate a label.
7
On page A5 of the Saturday NYTimes there is an article with the caption, "Interior minister leads mutiny in Germany to get its borders closed." I have not read the entire article but it mentions that Horst Seehofer, the former Bavarian premier is leading this mutiny. Bavaria has been the main recipient of immigrants and is now opposing Angela Merkel's policy on open borders. There have been hundreds of thousands of immigrants who have been given asylum in the country and the people have had enough. They are finally revolting against this open-border policy. This open-border policy may be Ms. Merkel's undoing.
There are similar appeals in Hungary, Austria and Italy who have seen a populist surge arise. These countries are also saying that they have had enough of immigration policies at the expense of their own citizens. This is leading to very conservative leaders being elected to government positions.
This is one of the reasons President Trump was elected as people were sick and tired of illegals crossing the borders into our country. We should learn from Germany that an open-border policy does not work. We must stop it before there is a point of no return. People must follow our immigration policies and come here legally. Then they will be very welcomed to become American citizens. Let's learn from Germany's mistake that open borders do not work.
3
This is logical, of course. But Republicans have always been pro-fetus and anti-children. This fits their long-standing program of manipulating laws, policies and treatment of kids for the purpose of controlling women. More extreme, but completely consistent. At least for those of us who followed their actions - not their lying words.
11
Lots of Americans, including me, are both pro-choice and also pro-immigration control.
The families can stay together whenever they want --
outside the USA.
The USA has no obligation whatsoever to take in whomever among the world's seven billion people want to come here.
All those crossing the border from Mexico to the USA to seek asylum here can seek it in Mexico.
If Mexico cannot handle them all, Mexico can seek assistance from the other 19 Latin American countries, at least 15 of which share the Spanish language with both Mexico and those crossing the border from Mexico seeking asylum here.
4
Many pro-life advocates are totally illogical in their beliefs. Most even many American Catholics who are pro life strongly support the death penalty. Most pro life and pro family conservatives care little about children once they are born. They oppose efforts to expand Medicaid to increase medical aid for mothers during and after pregnancy, they oppose raising taxes for paid family leave, early childhood care and education, and even laws regarding corporal punishment. Also like many others in our country including Democrats they have no problem with blatant discrimination against children in terms of housing and other issues. Immigrant children are clearly in need but these people really care little about American children in general--most especially American children of color.
7
That is both kind and logical, but "pro lifers" do not necessarily believe in protecting us after we're born. That's our parents' responsibility. The PLers insist only that we BE born: hence the inconsistencies and problems.
What I find so shocking about this specter of so callously separating these kids from parents and thrusting them into the care of strangers, is the tent facility in Texas in which so many terrified children are held.
Tents were the favorite device of Sheriff Joe Arpaio in Maricopa County, AZ, for abusing and humiliating his pre-trial jail inmates - especially immigrants: crowding them into un-airconditioned tents throughout central AZ's searing desert summers: not only, as ACLU litigators demonstrated, routinely endangering detainees who had not yet been convicted of crimes, but depriving them of basic rights.
Presumably the tent conditions these kids experience are better than the hospitality that Sheriff Arpaio's tent house of horrors provided his victims.
It can hardly be lost on these kids, however, that their confinement to hot, precarious structures in which normal people are not forced to live not only demeans and criminalizes them. It must also intensify the feelings especially of younger children of helpless terror that they will forever be trapped here, never to see their parents again.
8
Many of the comments here point to the fact that incarcerated citizens are also separated from their children. The correct response to that is to ask what we are doing to reduce that problem as well. I live in a state that locks up more people per capita than any other state. Oklahoma is also ground zero for pro-life and abortion abolition (another clever Orwellian term) movements. None of them are interested in creating or expanding programs that deal with the root causes of crime and drug abuse. But they are willing to see unwanted pregnancy as a moral failing that must be punished.
As for immigration, the very same people who maintain that we need secure borders and that our resources must be devoted to our own citizens are screaming for tax cuts for the wealthy and small government that doesn't include social programs and resources for education and drug and alcohol programs. Outside the borders, they see nothing wrong with propping up regimes that abuse their people, who ultimately must flee and find their ways to countries that offer safety and a better life.
AG Sessions defends the Trump policy by quoting Romans 13, asserting that people should "obey the laws of the government because God has ordained them." Yet the bible is replete with cases of civil disobedience, in which people are encouraged to follow a higher mandate in the face of injustice. 'Pro-lifers' never want to talk about that when it doesn't fit their agenda.
8
The adults are only being incarcerated because Donald Trump wishes it. Illegal entry is a misdemeanor that requires NO imprisonment. It is Trump that demanded every undocumented person be tried for a felony.
12
How will these children view the USA as adults?
human rights violations should be grounds for action according to the 25th Amendment.
10
Let's face it - these kids are just bargaining chips so Trump can get his wall. Rather than addressing the problems in refugee countries to help them keep their populations, it's much, much easier to use Biblical quotations and non-action than actually trying to help ease problems in refugee countries. As Seneca said: "Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false and by the rulers as useful" . . . how true.
15
Protestant church where I grew up was about the love of Jesus and the Biblical teaching of THIS emphasis in theology. They seemed more puzzled by the Old Testament, with its account of a vengeful angry God and by Revelations, with its psychedelic imagination, preferring the accounts and teachings of Christ. By example, a life well lived emulated what the Bible teaches about what Jesus would do in the world experienced in the present. If there was to be evangelism, it would be by the example of kindness, compassion and understanding evidenced in the lives of such church people.
It took a long time in my life before I figured out that other protestants under the banner of “Onward Christian Soldiers” had no such understanding and were totally unapologetic about a different core of what I previously thought was a single religion. This different banner that powers into the world of mistreating children so that stopping the cruelty of parental separation can be used as political bargaining chips, just like N Korea rulers created a nuclear arsenal to be used in extorting economic favors from the Americans, the hardness and selfish manipulation of a mobster family from the Queens will have no regard for kindness and compassion. Trump and his cultish social movement regard compassion differently, compared to the gentle ways of people in my early childhood farming community, where these good-hearted people did everything they could to keep me from the cruelty childhood trauma.
3
The real point is that you can't be a decent parent if you are willing to place your young child in danger. That's the answer. Don't blame the immigration and Border security for doing their job, blame the children's parents.
3
Let me ask you this question. If you live in a small town where you see that your children not only have no opportunities but their lives are at risk, what would you do as a good parent? Stay and know that they have no chances and could die, or immigrate? Ellis Island received 12 million immigrants, men, women and families escaping the horrors of the wars. So what is the difference?
8
Your view might be vastly different if you lived in extreme poverty or under a violent repressive regime or an abusive spouse.
Life circumstances are far more "gray" than the simple black/white, yes/no which you espouse. Think about it,
6
This is typical. Pro life people only care about the unborn. Once that baby is born, maybe to a mother totally unable to care for it they simply don't care anymore.
7
Too late. They have already shown that they are willing to accept ALL horrors in the name of white supremacy. Being silent in the face of this most recent travesty is exactly what one would expect from them.
9
I read so many of the comments on this opinion piece and people are just speaking past one another; not actually listening or trying to understand. We would all come to agreement if we just followed the greatest commandment: "Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets."
The different sides need to stop trying to justify themselves and instead ask whether they are truly loving their neighbor... and everyone on earth is a neighbor. I am reading a huge lack of love in the comments section today. If your behavior is truly driven by love you don't have to resort to trying to justify yourself whether by quoting US law or scripture or anything else. If you truly love one another, no justification will be needed.
2
Well I see absolutely NO love (aside for self 'love' and lots more money for me) emanating from emperor (he of no clothes) Trump and his corrupt team.
Since many "believers" like to ask, "what would Jesus do" in making up their minds over a thorny issue.
I posit, that were HE present now, Jesus would NOT be backing Trump, Sessions, and the rest of the Republican party AND its base... no matter how much scripture they (mis)quote. Or their phony "pro life" stance.
ALL religions (that I am aware of) espouse the "golden rule" and that IS also something which we "non believers" can support 100%.
I have no desire to "understand" trump any longer I ONLY want US to be RID of him... and Republican control of Congress. That's the "love" of Country I'm after.
6
Make America moral again.
Make America sane again.
Make America good again.
Make America consistent with its values again.
Vote in November against the cruel and un-American policies of the Trump administration, and to restore honor, accountability, and principles to our government. It is up to the voters of this country to declare what we stand for. It's now or never.
18
Re "Given their support of the administration, and an unwillingness to speak critically about immigration policy, “pro-life, pro-family” organizations now risk being tied to these and other horrific practices."
Two words: GOOD. FINALLY. Mostly, so-called pro-life/pro-family organizations are thinly disguised covers (usually aided and abetted by "Christian" organizations) for intolerance, bigotry, and hate; and attempts to institutionalize those values within our legal system. These groups should be held accountable.
10
Tethered to another human by umbilical cord you are God’s precious gift. Untethered, you are a ‘burden to society’. It’s in the gospel.
10
Sadly, they can disconnect the two in their minds. After all, so many pro lifers are intellectually dishonest when they also advocate for a repeal of the ACA, or for cutting welfare benefits.
Suddenly that “brave mother” who chose to see her child to term becomes a “welfare queen” looking for handouts and entitlements.
This is just par for the course, loathsome as it may be.
12
"Pro-Life"?, it's a term that confirms the theory of the big lie. If you keep saying it enough people will begin to believe it. The GOP and the Pro-Lifers aren't pro-life, they may be pro-zygote but all the evidence says the are anti-children and misogynists to boot.
17
I don’t need to read this article to know that the author is wrong.
1. I am pro life. Ask any expectant Mom who gets her first sonogram and hears a heart beat. That’s called a life.
2. I’m a first gen American whose parents came to the US legally. Does anyone remember Elian Gonzalez?! Coming here illegally doesn’t give you a pass.
3
CHILDREN ARE DYING TRYING TO CROSS THE BORDER EVERYDAY!
It must stop!
I feel bad for the children of these parents. Their parents likely made bad decisions that led them to this predicament. Many have died crossing the desert following their irresponsible parents.
The use of dragging kids across the desert to gain entry and more lenient border treatment has to stop.
Many efforts have been made to stop parents from dragging children across the desert. All have failed.
The parents don't seem to care. Death, rape seperation are common in border crossings. They probably won't care that their children are taken either, but it may stop the better parents.
If this stops or slows down this practice and keeps kids from dying, I'm for it.
Other than opening the borders, I'm open to any ideas to stop these horrible parents.
4
Can you try to put yourself in their position for once? Their lives are in danger at home and they only want to escape the horrible conditions and prevent the deaths of their loved ones. They are not bad parents.
They are trying to help their children, to keep the, alive, and to find a safe future for them. Remember the old saying: walk a mile in the other person's shoes before judging them.
7
I think it should be apparent by now that "pro-life" and "pro-family" are no more than a catch phrases for male domination. Please, let's put those phrases to bed; their hypocrisy is now well understood by all.
16
As long as the ‘unfit to govern’ Trump GOP stays in power, the homegrown poorly educated will always be with us.
The poorly educated desperate families attempting to cross the border into the US are in far worse shape than their US counterparts whose own lives have been shaped by racist, mysogynistic GOP policies that restrict and control health and education. The migrants come for protection from despotic governments in Central America.
This is where the Trump empowered GOP is taking the US as well.
No other OECD country in the world controls education by
postal code, where you live, and makes quality health policy dependant on the wims of the employer the way the US does.
Trump has repeated, over and over again, that he loves the poorly educated. He does! They put him in the White House. Their numbers harvested the power of the Electoral College, the system put in place to placate the slave states after the Civil War. It discounted the voting power of the newly freed slaves.
The poorly educated are the new modern day slaves. Educated people do not vote to give tax cuts to already wealthy members of a society. Educated people do not
deny education and health to other people in their own society.
The GOP is afraid of educated people. Trump GOP policies are not attractive to an educated
society.
When the Trump GOP says ‘Jump!’, the Base will all jump, just like when Kim says it in North Korea. Trump wants what Kim has. He said this. We heard him.
10
I appreciate your sentiments but hate to tell you that (perversely) MILLIONS of very well educated Americans voted for AND continue to support AND enable Trump and his morally bankrupt administration.
Here's a few examples: ted Cruz (Princeton & either Yale or Harvard law), Mike Pompeo #1 at West Point, Harvard law, Scott Pruitt, U of Ok law school, mitch McCONnell, Betsy DeVos, and MANY many more.
These people support trump despite knowing better because of desire for power, money, or whatever their other personal motivation(s) may be.
I also believe that a depressingly huge number of either non critical thinkers, or ignorant folk also support trump (and in the UK similarly "minded" people bought into "brexit").
Very SAD.
3
The Trump administration ordered people to separate children from their parents and the people obey the orders. ' Just obeying orders' as a reason lost validity for doing anything a long time ago. Who ARE these people? Whi is obeying these orders? We know who issued the orders and the newspapers are full of discussions about it but who is following these orders?
5
The pro-life movement has never been pro-life. This is just one more example of their pro-life family values hypocrisy. They, and the politicians they support, are opposed to Medicaid expansion, they want to allow insurance companies to discriminate for pre-existing conditions, they want to destroy access to contraceptives, they are opposed to social programs, including food for poor people, and they are generally working to undermine the public education system. There is nothing pro-life about this bunch at all.
11
Nice that our Sovietized media is showing such concern and compassion for these children arriving at our borders and how severely they're being abused by our government with food, shelter, and medical care, but let's not overlook the fact that these children are tools being used by their parents to gain entry by whatever means.
Along with Mexico, Central and South America are replete with such stories about violence. Should we just open the borders and let them all in who are facing violence in their countries or even perhaps send C-5s down, fill them, and fly them in?
7
White House Racist in Chief, Stephen Miller has been under the radar as his separation Immigration policy has been implemented since April. How can our courts, police, elected officials and religious leaders allow children to be imprisoned and taken away from their parents? How do we continue to sit back and watch the injustice and bigotry in the attempt for a asinine border wall? Who is benefiting financially with contracts for IMPRISONING and feeding these poor children? What have we become?
8
Republicans are “pro birth,” not “pro life.” After birth, they couldn’t care less about life.
13
Turns out pro-life is actually pro-white-life
12
We can’t expect Americans to care about screaming children being ripped from the arms of their mothers and thrown in cages—when Americans don’t care about their own children being gunned down in schools , at church, at the movies, at concerts, at the mall.
Americans don’t care when their own children go without healthcare. They simply start a GoFundMe.
They don’t care when American children are hungry. Or when American children sleep in shelters.
Americans are barbarians.
9
Many may be but not all of US are.
Let's US all VOTE for Democrats and let the healing begin. Or at least the dismantling of the Republican Party and its lying CON MEN.
I need not bother naming them all. You ALL KNOW who they are..
2
We just need to help DT see this issue in a way that appeals to his better instincts.
First, he says that he is stuck here by the law that Democrats have put in place. So let's agree with him and claim that it was one of Obama's greatest achievements. Maybe that will help.
But here's an even better idea. The Trump charity needs some better press and a new challenge. How about that institution undertaking a new round of fundraising to collect enough money to put the separated children up in Trump hotels around the country? And maybe even enough to send some of them to a repurposed Trump U. for job training that would qualify them to work in factories that produce items for Ivanka's businesses? Haven't we learned by now that the answer to eliminating all human misery can be found in the incredible self-sacrifices of billionaires who open their hearts and pocket books to provide aid and comfort to those in need? And can't we see how each time those billionaires get huge tax breaks they spend that money helping the least fortunate? The opportunity is there, the timing couldn't be better and we should know by now how to harness DT's better instincts.
2
One thing is certain. Pro life people will continue to be pro life and pro abortion people will remain pro abortion. The one difference is that we are seeing more people switching to the pro life side. There are women who were once strongly pro abortion and some even had had abortions who have joined our side. We have even had former Planned Parenthood employees turn against abortion and becoming staunch supporters of life. That is quite a testament to the power we have had within the movement. And this was not really our intention but a nice bonus.
1
Big correction here: NO ONE IS PRO-ABORTION. We are pro-choice. By the way, your comment is completely off-topic.
5
As people have accurately pointed out, for some like yourself, this is some type of game, keeping score, feeling smug, rather than facing the truths of trying to legislate your preferred religious beliefs into law is not permissible in a pluralistic society that is not a theocracy.
How do people know these beliefs are merely politics? Issues like kids being taking from parents do not move the needle on their manufactured morality- at all.
6
I am not off topic as this is about pro life. Please read the article.
If you are for abortion, you are pro abortion. Why is this so difficult for pro abortion proponents to understand?
You CAN be pro-life and against ILLEGAL immigration. A nation without borders is not a nation, just as we no longer have a nation of laws when we start enforcing them selectively. If you don't like the immigration laws, change them.
45
By definition and judicial precedent, children cannot be held to the legal standards of adults.
4
What Trump and this administration is doing is NOT law. It is a policy proposed by Trump advisor Stephen Miller. It is a policy being inforced by Trump appointed Attorney General Jeff Sessions on behalf of Donald J Trump. Stop trying to rationalize the abhorrent actions of this administration.
Good Lord! Sessions even quoted scripture to support their policy. This is same reasoning slavers and Nazis used.
4
Last I checked, separating children from parents is not written in, or mandated by, any law anywhere. This is a deliberate choice by the administration in keeping with its uncanny instinct for cruelty. The President himself has said that he's using it as a bargaining chip for negotiations with Democrats. Less chief law enforcement officer and more mob boss.
3
The term "pro life" has always been a misnomer; "pro fetus" is the correct term. These groups have never expressed concern for the chilD once it is born. Mr. Camosy correctly highlights this in discussing the support for Donald Trump, and the lack of opposition to the policy of taking children from their parents by immigration authorities. Since the anti-abortion crowd have never agitated against the death penalty, this should be no surprise. Perhaps this is the time for a name change to something more honest, such as "pro fetal" or "forced birth advocates." Accuracy matters.
13
On this Father's Day let's remember the lives of the children of immigrants, legal and illegal, crossing the border from Mexico. Trump's tactics reflect the "ICE-Tea Party" -- Trump's alt-right movement that has replaced the Republican Party -- on separating children from their immigrant parents (most of the latter are illegal, some are legal political refugees, and almost all currently are Hispanic Roman Catholics from Central and South America). Both the parents and children are presumed guilty at the border until proven innocent. Fathers of America, be pro-life by being pro-child! Kidnapping and extra-judicial punishment of children to harm or deter (as Trump has stated) their parents weaponizes the innocence of children. These anti-life acts are considered to be Crimes Against Humanity, more than sufficient as impeachment charges against Trump.
7
On this father's day, I am thinking about all the fathers (and mothers) from central and south America who have put their children's lives in danger by trafficking them across the Mexico border in order to live in the United States. Rather than detain them on our borders, let's just ship them to The Hague to be prosecuted for crimes against humanity (their own children). The United States has treated these children more humanely than their own parents. The real criminal here are the parents.
2
You just don't get it: those lives were in grave danger if the parents had remained in their home countries.
Evangelicals are not Christians - they are the descendants of the Confederates of the Slave States.
The Southern Baptist Church, for example, was founded in 1845 by antebellum Southerners because they were distressed that the majority of the Baptist congregations were becoming were becoming abolitionists.
Similar pro-slavery first sentiments prevailed throughout the early evangelical movement, and to this day, the Evangelicals are more interested in preserving their Confederate heritage than acting like Christians. They believe that the Apocalypse is upon us, that there are too many people in the world and that a world wide holocaust should reduce the total population, that mixing the races is a sin, that the myth of Creation trumps the evidence supporting the theory of evolution... but above all, they love the Confederacy, and believe that owning slaves was a good and moral thing in the years leading up to the Civil War, and that Yankee Abolitionists simply interfered with the Old South when they won the war.
Evangelicals are not Christians.
31
You are conflating Evangelical with Southern Baptist, these two terms are not synonymous. for example there are many Evangelical churches which are not Southern Baptist. The term Evangelical includes denominations such as: the African Methodist Episcopal Church, the American Baptist Church, some of the so-called megachurches, and the Salvation Army.
The word evangelical literally means "good news". within the so-called Mainline denominations, there are evangelicals. The sermon preached by Bishop Michael Curry at the Royal Wedding was certainly evangelical.
All of this is not to defend the actions of Southern Baptist convention or I should say some members of the Southern Baptist convention who tend to follow the teachings of W. A. Criswell as talk at Dallas Theological Seminary, rather than Jesus of Nazareth.
Sin,while not a popular word nowadays, is derived from a Greek archery term which means to miss the mark. It is also a word that's all Christians should take seriously, given that none of us are perfect. As Jesus said, let the man who has never missed the mark throw the first stone.
3
Sure you can; it means you're a Republican
9
Fume. Call me a liar....but I watched it with my own eyes........Earlier this morning, during the Jake Tapper sob story about "immigrant children", CNN used stock footage of detainment facilities IN MEXICO CITY to demonstrate how Trump is evil and mean to kids............Think, people, think. The Media is indeed manipulating you. Thats why we have "news editors"......think
4
Think is right. Question that and question what Trump IS doing on the US border: taking kids from parents. You can be interested in the truth.
3
Isnt the real extreme inhumanity to children .... In GUATAMALA? in EL Salvador? in Honduras??? In Nicaraugua???? Perhaps also MEXICO???? Why is the NYTs self-righteous crowd forever blaming the USA for misery created by societies elsewhere in the world? The problem is NOT USA's legal system, nor is the problem "immigration". The problem is that 95% of the world actually PREFERS oppression and rule of "strong survive to prey on the weak". THAT is the problem. NOT "Evil Trump" or whatever guilt trip NYT elitists want to use to manipulate the rest of us.
6
Fully agree
3
Actually, very few prefer living under terrible governments. You could include half the United States among them.
You will note democracies seldom elect governments that promise violence and oppression. Usually they find themselves under such governments without choice.
Ask yourself: How much violence would there be in Mexico without the drug trade? How much drug trade would there be without the American market? Now: to what extent is our behavior and policy responsible for the humanitarian crisis on our border?
We have a choice. We can say, tough luck Charlie. Or we can do something humane. Which kind of country do you want us to be? Which one would make you proud?
7
Hypocrites
12
It's apparently useless to get Republicans to consider the separation of immigrant families as a humanitarian issue, or as a religious issue, or as a family issue, so let's talk about something we know that they care about: money.
These men, women, and children, whom we have illegally detained and separated, will have every right to sue the US government, and every chance of winning. We have over 11,000 children in custody right now, let alone adults. Who will pay the potentially billions of dollars in legal and settlement costs? We will.
And this fits Trump's MO. He is well known for making illegal and/or bad decisions, and then skipping away to leave the suckers holding the bag.
17
Sorry, Charles, but there will be no successful lawsuits because they have no valid legal ground to file a civil rights suit. (Oh sure, maybe some rogue judges and the cray-cray 9th Circuit will try its best to find a cause of action, but the Supreme Court will not buy it.) None of these people have been "illegally" detained. They have been detained legally, without question. All the whining to the contrary from the open borders crowd will not change that.
And, by the way, even if there was a cause of action (which there isn't), there is a long-standing principle in law that requires you to mitigate your damages. In these cases, any hypothetical damages suffered by these would-be illegal immigrants could be mitigated if they admitted what they did and went home. But they don't want to mitigate any damages. They want to live in the United States and, for them, even being separated from their children is worth the prize of being in the United States. ("Asylum in Mexico? Ick! We didn't leave a poor country to live in another poor country! We want Disney and Starbucks and a free quality public education paid for American citizens!")
Yes, this is about money -- the greed of illegal immigrants who put their desire to pursue the American dream ahead of the health and welfare of their children. The people who are mistreating these children are the parents. They deserve 100 percent of the blame. They are greedy. And cruel.
2
Here's an article in the NY Times you may have missed:
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/15/us/politics/trump-immigration-separat...
I was a federal law enforcement officer for 22 years. When law enforcement becomes responsible for children, as the result of an arrest, the children are returned to family members as quickly as possible. They are not housed in an abandoned Wal-Mart or in some hastily erected tent city for who knows how long.
So, in your mind, if a child is in danger of being killed and their parents flee with them in search of safety and a better life, that makes them "greedy and cruel".
I agree, you cannot be authentically be “pro life” while remaining indifferent to the draconian, “anti-family” and “anti-life” policy currently being implemented on the southern border. The sanctimonious psuedo-Christians who exalt the unjust laws of men over the Word will drown in their own hypocrisy. Rebuke them at the polls in November.
18
YES, you can!
1
I am neither anti-abortion nor anti-immigrant children. What I am against is illegal immigrant parents who traffic their children across the border for economic gain and then expect special treatment because they have hauled minors with them.
Forget the bogus argument that these are legitimate asylum seekers; they are not. If any of them were, they would stop in Mexico and seek asylum there and none of them did (not a one). These are people who want a better life in the U.S. and they have calculated that, if they bring their children with them, they have a better chance of being released into the U.S. and never showing up for a hearing, avoiding deportation. The Trump administration has, smartly, done something to counter that tactic. And all the whining in the world will not change that.
All the whining in the world will also not change the fact that all these families -- every single on of them -- could be reunited as a family if the parents simply said, "Ok. We got caught. We admit it. We were trying to illegally immigrate. We'll go home." If they said that, they would be back together in an instant. But they aren't doing that. Why? Because family separation is less important to them than living in the United States. If trying to con us into thinking they are real asylum seekers is so important, let them be held in detention separately. The U.S. will treat these children better than parents who risked their children's lives to immigrate illegally.
8
Yes. Yes. Yes.
4
It is absolutely false to claim that anyone on this issue is "against children". And it is beyond presumptuous to try to define what people who are pro-life must also believe in order for their views to be acceptable, especially to Democrats.
4
Of course you can be "Pro-Life and Against Immigrant Children".
It's called hypocracy--something the Pro-Lifers have honed to a fine art over the past generation. "Have that baby" they chortle--and then ignore the plight of the woman who heeds their advice or is forced to give birth because of Pro-Life totalitarian restrictions on abortion.
Extending this hypocracy to immigrant children is completely straightforward.
23
Nice picture to tug on our heartstrings. It won't work!
5
The United States still has a few intelligent and creative people in government. Why can't they come up with a widely distributed announcement in all of Central America that would-be immigrants will be turned away at the border or detained? Emphasize that their children will be taken away. Perhaps this will deter them before the people leave home, bound for the United States. It's obvious that they still believe once they make the long hike through Mexico, they'll be allowed entry. We must change that notion before this gets worse. It would cost less than building more housing.
1
Pro-life and anti-immigrant children is very consistent if you add one more hate--anti-women. It is the uppity women who are hated by traditional, power-desiring men. They want their women, as the German expression goes, barefoot, pregnant, in the kitchen or in church--in short, a living testament of the man's power. The child staring glumly at the police certainly do not appear under the father's control.
21
Suddenly the Leftists have latched onto an issue they can run with, and the media goes into a frenzy.
2
Why are only “leftists” outraged by cruelty to children ?
21
Really? There"s nobody on the right that can "latch" onto this issue?
13
Well, this time around, the fundamental cruelty, hypocrisy and deceitfulness of the right is unobscured. How very embarrassing -
8
You can't be pro abortion and pro unlimited illegal immigration.
If killing unborn babies is acceptable, then keeping out families with children trying to enter illegally should not be cause for complaint.
Sorry, I am pro abortion and pro immigration, but this sort of moralizing against people who want to limit illegal immigration just gets up my nose. And don't tell me it isn't illegal - Central Americans already in Mexico do not qualify for asylum in the US and neither are domestic and gang violence grounds for asylum under the refugee conventions.
6
This inhumane treatment of separating immigrant families at the border is cruel and unusual punishment, which supposedly is against the law!
Kidnapping is also against the law! Why is kidnapping done by our own government in broad daylight being permitted? Where are the enforcers of our laws?
15
Oh right, they are the ones committing the crimes.
I want more abortions and less illegal immigrants.
7
If the illegal immigrants don't want to be separated from their children then they should not try to enter the US illegally. Plan and simple. No sympathy for them, they are breaking the law and have become criminals. Enter the US through proper channels. What makes them feel that they are special and can cross over in to the US in an illegal Manor and not be punished.
7
Webster’s dictionary definition of refugee:
legal Definition of refugee. : an individual seeking refuge or asylum; especially : an individual who has left his or her native country and is unwilling or unable to return to it because of persecution or fear of persecution (as because of race, religion, membership in a particular social group, or political opinion)
There are not presenting at the border as “immigrants” legally or illegally. It is legal to present yourself at an official border crossing and to request asylum. Which is what they’re doing. As the article states, this is an administrative proceeding not a criminal proceeding. Asylum is what this country was founded on for many of its citizens of English, Irish, Scottish, German, etc. origin. But instead of coming on ships, they are now coming on foot.
And they’re brown.
Please do not conflate fear of dying with a simple desire to live elsewhere without going through “the proper channels”. In the case of seeking asylum, presenting yourself at an official border crossing is the proper channel.
19
It’s probably not possible for most of us reading this opinion piece to truly comprehend the terrible desperation that must drive people to make what is by all accounts a harrowing journey. If I had children at risk of death or coercion into a violent gang, or was a woman with no recourse under the laws of my land to escape spousal abuse/murder, I too might feel compelled to make that journey. Peace be with you.
18
"Illegal Manor" should be the new name for the White House.
Anyone that can support this policy is a monster.
They're children. Being taken from their parents. For standing on the wrong piece of dirt.
7
its EASY, just define 'life' as US, and those immigrants are THEM. US vs THEM...
4
This is so disgusting, and I'd really like to eventually see all ICE participating agents prosecuted for child abuse. And, NO, "I was just following orders" is not a defense. These guys are horrid, bad people, and it's an absolute crime.
19
Children. My God, they’re just children.
What have we become?
42
It is unfortunate that the people in the US that describe themselves as Pro-life, are responsible for this inhuman incarceration of children. It is also unfortunate that implicit in the Pro-life policies is that it is applied generously to white children and sparingly to children of color.
25
Pro-life means pro-fetus. Interest in life ends with the birth of the baby for many pro-life supporters.
34
This is nothing new. Most "pro-life" people and organizations could not care less about whether children and adults have access to medical care, adequate food, shelter, and education. Keeping families together or providing health care is something that only we soft-headed "baby murders" care about. "Pro-life" just means punishing women for having sex.
At least the Catholic Church, for all of its many, many flaws is consistent about providing positive lip-service about caring for post-birth babies, but the rest of them are just hypocrites.
44
So what responsibility does their native country have here? None? Is the US now responsible for the world’s population?
4
BC,
That’s the same attitude the US government had when they turned away Jews escaping the Nazis. Many of them later perished in the Holocaust.
5
Go read the plaque on the Statue of Liberty.
Needlessly separating 2000 children from their parents is a crime against humanity!
I hope that the United Nations will censure Trump for this as they would any other dictator!
The US should be kicked out of the UN if it continues this practice.
36
Sorry but who is putting those 2,000 children in that position in the first place. The parents.
As to the UN, they can leave NY anytime they want. Less traffic and other burdens on the city of NY.
3
Personally, I’d be entirely in favor of us leaving the UN. It’s about as useful as The League of Nations was.
3
Dude, you missed the whole point.
Forget Spanish, I hope your kids are learning Chinese in school. They're going to need it sooner than you think!
2
Children should be with their parents - in their country. The US cannot accept the billions of poor who want to come here. America first.
7
Billions?
6
The religious right is neither. They are a cult. They are a threat to our Constitution. They have a twisted interpretation of Jesus. They are following the devil in our president and the leadership of the Republican party. We have crossed the line of logic and difference of opinion. We are in a constitutional crisis. Let's hope the coming election resets things. If not, our country is lost.
25
Why is the forced taking of children from their parents not kidnapping? Trump is using them for ransom, so Congress will be forced to give him billions for his wall!
11
These groups are not pro-life, they are pro-fetus. These very same groups have fought against in some form or another the following: Health Care, CHIP, The School Lunch Program, and SNAP to name just a few. Like the party they embrace, self-righteous, sanctimonious and hypocritical.
14
Our country, which is awash in guns and where so many schoolchildren are killed by them, is a disgrace.The GOP, which backs the immoral NRA, a commercial entity driven by profit, cannot call itself pro life or even humane.
To deny healthcare, education, and food to innocents, the GOP's other fetish, and to support a selfish man bereft of any humanity to carry out its nefarious objectives, is pure crass profiteering in human misery.
Shame on us for allowing this abomination of a party to control our lives. Are these men and women in power made of stone that allow such misery to be inflicted on innocent, immigrant children, not to mention our own poor? The only "pro" here is profit.
13
Nonsensical assertions from illegal immigration supporters.
Plenty of people like illegal immigration. Many industries use them for cheap labor. House holders use them for cheap housekeeping and off-the-books construction and landscaping. Why pay a living wage when you can hire somebody who is willing to live in a shared garage or under a bush? Do you know how many contractors pick up day laborers at the local hardware, lumber or big box store every morning and then bring then to your house as part of their ”crew". They charge you a skilled workers wages and then pay them minimum wage with no benefits and no workers insurance. All the pious talk of so called liberals, but under that, just greed.
The children being brought in illegally are being used as pawns by their parents, who have heard that they will get a free pass and a better chance to stay if they have a child in tow. Thank Obama for that.
7
If there was a realistic minimum wage we wouldn’t have a servant class. All would be paid enough to not “live under a bush”. And it would cut back on day laborers.
3
Ehhhh, this was going on in California 35 years ago, back when I lived there. Likely it was going on elsewhere in this country as well. If I recall, Reagan was President then......
1
Yes, you can be both.
4
The problem is NOT illegal children...........the problem is ILLEGAL immigration, usually begun by parents, not governments. Stop the illegal immigration and the problem will go away.......
10
Seeking asylum is not illegal. Children should not be punished.
10
I recall reading a book called Borne Survivers, and it is about 3 Jewish pregnant women, and how they hid their pregnancy and give birth under most unbelievable situations. These three lucky women and their babies lived to tell their story, and the story of thousands of other mothers and their children that were taken away from them, once they got off the train. And now, history is repeating itself. Children of immigrants are taken away from them forcefully by people who claim to be pro life people. These children are not sent to be gassed, but the emotional damage is beyond belief for these children and their parents.
Those hypocrites who claim to be Pro Life, those who claim to be religious, and the so called Evangelicals are silent. Shame on them and the administration who are doing as they pleased in the name of aw and religion. I believe that we will all pay for our deeds one way or the other.
8
What you see there happens to American families tens if not hundreds of thousands of times each year when Child Protective Services take children away with false allegations of abuse, endangerment or neglect. In California, just a few years ago Kamala Harris, then the Attorney General, spent millions of taxpayers money to defend two lying CPS workers all the way up to the Ninth Circuit. She only withdrew the appeal when one justice told the government lawyer to go back and tell Harris to do so otherwise the decision will not be pretty for her (and her political ambitions). Now we see Hypocrite Harris questioning the government about how to not to traumatized children. In her own state, she aided and abetted the CPS abuses. Senator Harris, please shut up.
2
The chickens come home to roost. A long time ago this paper sold a piece of its soul by calling the anti-abortion movement the "pro-life movement." It was not alone in this, as N.P.R., P.B.S., and most of the allegedly objective, unbiased media did the same. Now, suddenly, we see in this column the paper arguing for a new definition of "pro-life." Let's see if it will at least be honestly consistent and now call the anti-abortion movement by its accurate name.
Perhaps then prisoners will be called prisoners, not "detainees" and torture will be called torture, not "enhanced interrogation."
9
trump (lower cap intentional) is a monster. He is using children as human shields. The threats he fears? Dignity, integrity, compassion, courage.
13
Who is against immigrant (illegal or otherwise) children? I've seen the pictures of the facility and it is certainly a lot nicer than what a lot of US kids have to endure when their parents go to prison.
4
The separation of children from their parents is bad. The murders of over 100 politicians in Mexico in the last year is even worse. Where do Americans go to escape this creeping chaos? Canada?
5
It’s stories like this that will get trump elected to a second term.
1
Pro-life/anti-gun regulation
Pro-life/anti-environmental protections
Pro-life/pro-death penalty
Pro-life/anti-strong social safety nets
Pro-life/ basically anti-anything that makes leaving the womb worth it.
22
Well said, Peggy!
3
Canada too has problems with illegal immigration from our southern border; people are flooding in from the United States in record numbers and certain crossings have been overwhelmed. However, we treat these immigrants as we would treat our fellow Canadians, as human beings, and provide them with the necessities to live while they wait the several months for their claims to be processed. We do not detain them. We do not treat them as criminals and we would never ever separate children from their parents.
America, the whole world is watching. Jeff Sessions, bouncing up and down on his heels with giddy joy over while reciting bible verses in defence of this mass incarceration is nothing short of grotesque.
How can supposed "pro-life" Christians tolerate this practice? Don't they understand how inhumane and unacceptable it is? Is racism the real reason why this system was enacted? It is so reminiscent of the horrors of the past.... children being ripped from the arms of their mothers.....it reminds me of Sophie's Choice....Please in Gods name, stop it !
13
I am totally opposed to the “pro-life” movement on philosophical and ideological grounds. There is no such thing as an “unborn child” and protecting fetuses means enslaving women. I am also opposed to the stupid, cruel and unseemly practice of separating children from their parents in order to deter border crossing. Had the forced-birth advocates come out in force against this practice, would it have changed my opinion of them? Not a jot. Making a right decision in one situation does not automatically make your every decision right. However, it is amusing to watch the ridiculous contortions of forced-birth proponents when confronted with their own inconsistency. Oh,so these parents broke the law, so you can warehouse their kids in tent cities without appropriate care or supervision? Really? So you must be in favor of the Islamist practice of cutting off a thief’s hand in public - a thief also broke the law. And why don’t we punish bad parking by stoning, public threats by hanging and tax cheating by drawing and quartering? How many “pro-lifers” would escape alive?
5
Charles, can I call you Charles? You have missed the point of not merely the past five hundred days, but of the past eight years because you obviously are not yet sufficiently cynical. The people to whom you speak, members of the alleged pro-life community, are laughing at you. These people have shown they have no ethics, morals, or principles. They, like the rest of the Religious Right, the Tea Party, the Freedom Caucus, McConnell, Ryan, and the entire GOP, are only interested in the same thing Trump wants – raw political power; enough power to force the majority of Americans to bend to their will. You are talking about reason, logic, and scruples to unreasonable, illogical, and unscrupulous people. The American charade is over my friend and the only thing that matters anymore is who can secure and exercise enough power to force people to figuratively or literally in Trump’s case, to bow before that power. Assuming we have free and fair elections in November and in 2020, we’ll see who ends up with the power, but at this point, your pleas are a waste of time, and as I said, they are laughing at you.
3
You can’t be pro-human and for this administration’s policy of child abuse. I have said it before, and I will say it again: support for Trump is a moral failure.
10
Tell you what Mr. Trump, let's turn the tables, shall we? I'll show you what it is like. . . . give me Barron. I'll take him and place him with a foster family across the country, you may never see him again. He will be raised in a commune outside Berkley, but you won't know where. Now, is breaking up families still a good idea? Before you answer that, you tell Melania what you are going to do. . . . I will stand over here outside the splatter zone.
6
It's really very simple; it is morally wrong to separate a child from his or her parents. The "Pro-Life" groups either have to condemn Trump and his separation of family policy, or they have to accept they they are hypocrites. And unfortunately, hypocrites cede their authority and moral leadership to others.
5
Amen Charles Camosy
I'd also like to see Cardinal Daniel DiNardo have the USCCB organize and hold frequent marches and newsletters, as they do protesting abortions.
6
Mr. Camosy, let me see if I got this right: you are arguing that they are being hypocritical and that is something they would be persuaded by, correct?
I can hear them laughing. Coffee-spewing laughter.
Really, they don't care. Not one bit.
3
Most who claim to be "pro-life" are really just pro-birth. After they're born, they're on their own.
9
Intentionally causing injury to children is grounds for impeachment.
7
Actually, probably not, although maybe it should be.
This article manages to combine two third rails.....abortion/birth control and immigration. Unfortunately like all the rest the author offers no solution. To be pro life/anti birth control and not provide for the children is hypocritical. Our church leaders and politicians and open border advocates are like dead beat dads. No problem with having kids but don't ask me to pay for raising them. How can anyone in the US be pro life or pro open immigration for the poor children of the world and stand by while we have a war budget of a trillion dollars? If the people really cared about the Central American women instrumentalizing their children at the border to get their foothold in the land of milk and honey they would demand that the trillion be distributed in Honduras, El Salvador and Mexico. They would demand that the US impose better government on these countries or take them over. They would demand that funds for the maintenance and support of all these children be provided out of the biggest source...the war budget. But no.....we want more babies.....and we will stand by and watch the government blow a trillion borrowed dollars on a pointless exercise.....rather than take responsibility for the result of our pro life pro migrant stand. We are like a dead beat dad with six kids by four women driving a new Cadillac. At least Trump is not a hypocrite on this one. He does not want the migrants and he does not want to pay for it.
2
Mr. Camosy has a kind heart, but he doesn't understand that one cannot sip from a firehose. An analogy to his thesis would be denouncing the citizen who visits the animal shelter and brings home a pet, for not clearing the shelter of all pets and installing them in his living room.
The active geyser of human misery otherwise known as Latin America should be visited and carefully examined by those who howl for an open border. With the Catholic Church continuing to denounce birth control there is no forseeable end to the torrent of terribly downtrodden miserables eager to crash our border, break our laws. It must stop, by any means necessary. America needs a robust stream of vetted immigrants from many diverse nations, not a torrent of illegal latinos.
4
Oh no Not by “any means. “ cruelty to children makes Americans barbarians.
4
'You Can’t Be Pro-Life and Against Immigrant Children', well, sure you can. Nothing about Trump or this administration makes any sense anyway. The only consistent theme is rampant hypocrisy. Expecting anything different is fools play. Get over it, VOTE and RESIST.
4
The pro life folks do not stop showing concern for mother and baby once the baby leaves the womb as many pro abortion people proclaim. Have you heard of the Sisters for Life? They are a group of Roman Catholic nuns who have dedicated their lives to helping the pregnant women and babies before and after they have given birth. They have set up homes where the babies and mothers can live. They help them financially and assist them with career training and finding employment if need be. They serve as more than just a diaper service and offer moral support to these courageous women.
There is also a 40 Days for Life pro life campaign in which I take part. These are dedicated men and women of all ages who gather together in a prayer vigil outside of abortion clinics in the United States and around the world. I was so impressed with their kindness and devotion to the protection of life that I immediately joined the group. These men and women are some of the nicest people I have ever encountered. They show care and concern for the women entering the clinics and never coerce them. The result has been women will see the sincerity of these people and decide to have their babies rather than abort. These people also aid the women in their times of need before and after birth.
Pro life is pro woman. I am a woman and strongly disagree that men or anyone else for that matter controls a woman's body. That is one of the many falsehoods spoken by the pro abortion side.
2
Do not equate yourself with the Sisters for Life.
While you are praying and holding prayer vigils, both passive acts that accomplish nothing, these nuns are actively working to better the lives of children and mothers. You are as different as oil and water.
6
I would like to see the immigrant children and families sue Trump and all his supporters for billions for abuse. That would be poetic justice for all the damage Trumps bullying has caused. The GOP , Graham ,and the evangelicals think they are Christian. Our Pope told Trump a Christian builds bridges not walls. I was shocked to see the children in prisons. They are probably not even a gang member just a dark skinned body to look good for the GOP supporters and Fox News. Shame on the rotten to the core GOP.
3
Yes they can. Pro-Lifers are mean peoples who care nothing about life. What they are after is anyone’s guess but it sure ain’t about humanity.
5
How about: "you can't be pro-child and subject your children to life-threatening illegal journeys because your country is third-world"
2
How about that is exactly why they are willing to expose their children to a dangerous journey. Try to imagine how bad life must be for them and especially for parents to decide the dangerous trek is worth reaching the US.
5
Seeking a better life for ones children. Hoping for a better life. All of our ancestors followed the same journey. But don’t you worry! These children will be traumatized for life. USA!USA!
4
Even more importantly, you can't be pro-death and supportive of parents breaking US immigration law and thereby risking a separation of family members. If families do not want to risk being separated, come here legally or not at all. If you want to be totally supportive of the kids, let's also support the unborn kids who are defenseless.
2
The pro-lifers are not and never have been pro-life. They are anti-abortion. After birth, they don’t care about human life. If they did, they’d be anti-war and against the death penalty. They would also support social progams that assist families with children, such as food stamps and children’s healthcare. The Democrats are more pro-life than any of the so called pro-life Republicans.
12
You can't be pro-life at the same time as being pro-war, pro capital punishment, pro-torture and racist. One of those things does not go with the others. It doesn't matter what anyone feels about a woman's right to determine her own reproductive destiny.
10
George Carlin said it best. Republicans are pro-life until they are born.
11
And when will the U.N. impose sanctions on the U.S.? We are destroying families and supporting child abuse....
5
"You Can't Be Pro Life and Against Immigrant Children"
It's a catchy title.
As someone who is pro-life and adopted two children here is my solution: take these children away from their clearly irresponsible parents are coming here knowing that they are throwing their innocent children into the court of public opinion and outside the law.
I hear many Americans express fine and humane policies for the country.
Vote with your life and with your example. If your heart breaks for an urban crack baby or a Central American minor, adopt them. Don't become indignant and talk about American values.
Live them with your example.
Talk is cheap, and tearing into pro-life Americans is cheap fun for moralizing Liberals.
Show everyone your better way.
3
The parents of these children are not "clearly irresponsible"! Not having walked in their shoes, we cannot judge their actions. Don't you think they'd rather be in their homeland? Many of these parents have watched family members executed or imprisoned; can you say that giving up everything you have to preserve your child's and your lives and try to get to someplace safer is less responsible than just waiting in peril?
5
I was shocked to see the immigrant children in a prison . None of them are in a gang either I'm sure. Just because they are darker skin. The GOP bullies I am sure are putting every one they can in who are darker skinned just to look good for Fox News and the rotten to the core GOP supporters. Our Pope Francis told Trump a true Christian builds a bridge not walls. I want Trump locked up. He now deserves it more than children. They don't know right from wrong. He does.
8
When an American citizen who has kids breaks the law is separated from his kids and sent to jail. This is supposed to be a deterrent against breaking the law. If you don't want to be separated from your kids don't break the law in the first place! I fail to see why the NYT argues in favor of granting people who come to the country illegally special rights above the ones of the citizens. If someone breaks into your apt or robes a bank and happens to have kids, he should not go to jail because he has kids at home and we can't separate them?
5
The US citizen has the opportunity to place the children with relatives. The children are not thrown in cages. Entering the coin illegally is a misdemeanor, not a felony. Seeming asylum is not illegal.
It sickens me that Americans are so willing to tolerate cruelty to children. But then I remember Americans so easily tolerate the slaughter of their own children in schools, concerts , movies, malls.
11
The last time I recall reading about Western governmental policy that separated a child from his/her parents was during WWII! Despicable!
6
The Trump Administration's policy of separating immigrant/asylum seeking parents from their children is not just cruel, it is sadistic -- as it was intended to be. Many administrations have been accused of being wrong or immoral; this is the first I can think of that could be accused of being out right mentally ill.
7
No matter what you write, pro life, to virtually everyone in this country, means anti abortion. These groups richly deserve any bad publicity that they receive for supporting the despicable bully in the white house. Since these children have been born, they are of absolutely no interest to the pro life movement. I am sure that they send their thoughts and prayers, though.
6
Is the author being deliberately disingenuous?
He seemingly cares about human well-being, and doubtless there are some others in the anti-abortion (and anti-LGBT) movement who do as well.
But...the primary impulse of these people is to force everyone to live according to their religious beliefs.
7
The bible is dubious on many things except welcoming the vulnerable stranger. Imagine if Jesus was taken from the arms of Mary and Joseph as they immigrated ... we'd have a very different bible, wouldn't we?
8
Yes, I can.
I love immigrant children.
They can live with their parents in their own country;
or - if they illegally enter America - they can live with their parents in their own country after they are deported;
or they can live here in America if they legally immigrate.
Problem solved.
5
You reduce the problems to such tidy binary solutions. Some parents, having been separated from their children after they--legally--apply for asylum, are deported but not with their children, who remain somewhere untraced in the US.
Where does that fall into your simple framework? Life is much messier than you think. I hope you are never put in a position where you have to flee for your life and must rely on the help of foreigners who consider you a pest. One father in custody hanged himself after his child was removed. Think about that on Father's Day.
2
Only the evangelical trump values cult would force a raped immigrant child to go through pregnancy, give birth to a child that is then taken away.
Immigrant children aren't the only ones victimized by this cult of cruelty. American children are victimized too, by destroying their American families, deporting one or both immigrant parents. Cruelty and human rights abuses knows no bound for them. Indeed, they double and triple down blaming Democrats and invoking the Bible as a defense.
Trump-Sessions should be denounced to the International Criminal Court in the Hague for violations of the human rights of immigrants and children.
"the lesser of two evils." Pro-lifers would be first to stone and lock up Christ if he ever returned while praising trump, their new Messiah.
It's the pro-choice crowd that cares more for the born children being kidnapped by our tax-paid government servants on behalf of the 87% of evangelical Republicans that share trump values and morals.
Pro-lifers are more concerned for a clump of cells than hungry children, poor education, the banishment of science to advanced nations, while imposing shariah Christian laws and beliefs on all of us and the discrimination of LGBTQ human souls. They have no qualm about government leaders invoking their Bible to justify their edicts - like Sessions and Huckabee have done this week.
Thanks to 87% of evangelical Republicans the world is now tethered to the inevitable downfall of trump. Pro-life? Give me a break!
11
Sorry Mr. Camosy, but you are wrong. A significant portion of the U.S. citizenry (including many so-called "Christians") characterize non-whites as sub-human, as chattels, as animals. And so it has been throughout American history. The recent treatment of children at the border simply proves the point. Shame on those support or condone such attitudes and behavior, and shame on this country.
7
For those who say that these children arrived here illegally I ask: what about children of rape or incest?
7
How do Evangelicals sleep at night? What gymnastics do they do with their biblical quotes to justify their support for Donald Trump and this administration?
7
You need to rethink this. These groups are not just pro life, they are anti-woman. Who are the victims of imposing external control of women’s bodies? Women.
Who are the victims when the most basic bond between a mother and her child is declared worthless? Women.
These groups are motivated by a base and hateful desire to debase the power, worth, independence and efficacy of women. Prevent women from controlling their own bodies? Prevent women from taking care of their own children? It’s the same disgusting misogynistic plan.
over a mother child relationship?
7
Why is it I no longer hear Republicans asking "What would Jesus do?" I suspect they know the answer.
12
Americans hate children.
They don’t care about their education, they don’t care about their health, they don’t care about their hunger. They particularly don’t care about children that don’t look like them.
Americans hate mothers. They don’t care about giving them leave to take care of their families, they don’t care if they are in abusive relationships, they don’t care about helping them care for their children in any way so that they can maintain employment and help support their families. They particularly don’t care about mothers who don’t look like them
Americans don’t care about pregnant women, or women of childbearing age. They don’t care about their health, they don’t care if they have no control over their bodies.
Americans just love fetuses though.
4
Everyone is pro-life unless they are suicidal. It is a stupid term designed to brainwash people into harming women in the name of making more babies available for sale by adoption agencies. No doubt the supporters of this inhumane policy expect these immigrant children to also be made available for sale. As for the argument that we also separate homegrown criminals from their children, actually, American prisoners, even felons, usually get to visit with their children at least once in a while and often just lose custody rather than losing full parental rights. When were we going to repatriate these immigrant children to their deported parents? My bet's on "never." There is legal precedent when Americans adopt internationally and their adoptees were kidnapped. No court has required their return that I know of.
2
The real problem is Trump doesn’t care about people. And if children being separated from their parents is what it takes to stop the flow of immigrants, so be it. We have a feckless, soulless President.
4
The answer to the headline question is easy. The so-called pro-lifers are not pro-life. They are anti-life ideologues, liars and cowards. That is how they can be "pro-life" and against immigrant children.
3
Focus on the Family should be renamed Focus on the White Family. Don't think for one minute that these "pro-life" groups care much about what happens to children who are from other countries or minority groups within the US. And this has nothing to do with who the unfit POTUS happens to be. It's always been a very white collective of people running these types of organizations.
10
The very premise of this piece is absurd. One never hears the so-called "pro-life" folks speak up for children or mothers. They are solely interested in "unborn children" [sic]. Once a baby is born, then it's time for that baby to pull itself up by its boot straps. Oh, and if you're anti-choice you are not welcome in my Democratic party as you are against allowing women agency over their own lives and bodies.
2
Yeah, don’t hold your breath. Every branch of the evangelical movement has been irretrievably tainted by its association with Trump, proving once and for all, as if were necessary, that these “Christian” organizations are more invested in power, racism and misogyny than following the example and teaching of Jesus Christ.
6
If men got pregnant, abortion would not be an issue.
5
First of all, the term "pro-life" is nothing but a marketing term that, unfortunately, the media has swallowed and regurgitates mindlessly. It has no connection with the true nature of people who identify with that group. They are, for the most part, religious zealots who believe women should be subservient to men, and who believe in freedom only when that freedom serves their own doctrinal agenda. Once a baby is born, that's the end of their so-called "sanctity of all life" considerations. They are more concerned with the survival of a two-celled zygote than with a real human being, especially if that human is not the right color, socioeconomic status, or nationality. There is no scale big enough on which to measure the hypocrisy of these people. And there is no scale big enough to measure the contempt in which I hold them. They're just one more disease among many that has of late plagued our once-great country -- diseases from which I honestly don't think we'll ever recover. And it's these people, in different ways, who are responsible for its pending death. Pro life? What a sick joke.
7
I was going to say that these self-declared "pro-life" people don't care about real children, only fetuses. But then I realized something: they don't care about fetuses, either. Not really. What they care about is hating liberals, especially feminists. What they care about is controlling women, limiting their lives and punishing them for their sexuality. The hypocrisy of these "religious" Americans in supporting the crude misogynist Trump isn't at all a surprise.
2
Yes, people CAN and obviously are. Against children. They shouldn't be, logically, intellectually or morally speaking, but it's possible. Obviously.
1
Yes, you can actually be pro-life (or pro-abortion) and still believe that showing up at the border with children in tow should not provide you or your children with guaranteed entry to the United States.
2
They the pro-lifers just care about making this country a christian nations and pushing their theology down everyone else's throat. Its a catalyst to get Republican's elected and an election ploy. Just day Guns, Prayer in School, and anti-abortion and you get the thoughtless hoards to come out and vote, even if Guns kill their children at a higher rate then anywhere in the world, Prayer in school never prepared anyone for the academic competition we face against Asian countries in educating our children, and having strict abortion laws will likely increase abortion and female mutilation not decrease it!
2
I am pro choice, and against separating children from their illegal parents, but I am also against illegal immigration.
Who speaks for me in the press? Why is either open borders or the barbarism of separating children from parents?
1
We can play the naive game as much as we want or look the other way, but the reality is that many of Trump’s supporters are basically racists and don’t have any empathy for anybody that doesn’t belong to their tribe. The outrageous policies and their outcomes are 100% supported by these people. It is not just immigration: see Puerto Rico, for example. Hillary called them “deplorables” and she was right.
4
The subjects of this article have left their mother’s womb, therefore they have no political utility. They do not merit health care, housing, or education. Our citizens don’t get health care, housing, or education. At least these kids won’t get drafted when the chickens come home to roost.
1
I am concerned that these children, separated from their parents/families/loved ones, will become victims of human trafficking.
8
Or molestation at the hands of caretakers here in the US. The liability the government has taken on is reckless; these children should never be removed from their parents.
1
All WWII Movies watched relentlessly, Memorial Day, 4th of July, D-Day- you name it will not exonerate this Country from its shamelessness on heinous immigration policies. WWII was 75 years ago For God's Sake. America- step up courage and do right! Jesus isn't it time to get some kind of ethical gumption....
1
You can't be against abortion yet condone this? Well, yes--
I am struck--really, overcome--by the intentional brutality and cruelty of this policy. The details of what the White House is doing are horrifying.
The military is building tent cities on bases to hold the children. Cages have been put in big box stores for keeping the children. A nursing child was actually taken from her mother.
Many if not most of the children have been taken from families that have applied for asylum.
We are required by our own laws to consider all applications for asylum. Those families are legally permitted to arrive at our borders and apply for asylum.
The Trump Republican White House decided to do this on day one in order to punish new arrivals and frighten those who are contemplating coming.
Everything else that Mr. Trump and the White House are telling us is lies and misinformation and malicious nonsense.
Come on, Trump people. This is inhumane, indecent. We can and must do better. This violates the principles and ideals that we must as Americans all agree to aspire to.
4
What does it mean? It means that the "pro-lifers" (=life in prison for children who have done no wrong) and evangelicals are every bit the hypocrites that many of us have been saying all along.
They are pro-fetus solely to exert control over women. Once born, they not only don't care but actively treat you bad.
The damage they have done to the western judaeo-christian humanist tradition is incalculable.
4
It's now official. The anti-Trump fanatics are pro mass-incarceration, as long as its for American citizens.
1
Separation of families seeking asylum?
Why in the world does Trump/Sessions/Miller team blatantly lie to the public....Trump said yesterday that this is the "Democrats fault" and Sessions says that it is "the law" and even quotes the Bible to support "the law". They know and WE know that this is NOT the law, but a well designed new policy by the Trump team. It's reeks of racism. And it is not anything that Jesus would advocate for, that's for sure.
8
Separating immigrant families is punishment. Forcing women to carry pregnancies that they don't wanr to carry is punishment. It's simple.
5
The US is the third largest country (by size) in the whole world. China, with some one billion, three hundred million people, is smaller in size than the US, yet China's economy is thriving. We have only some three hundred million people, and many areas of our economy - farming, for one - are in dire need of workers. However, Donald, and some of his supporters, hate non-white faces so much that they would rather lock children away from their parents (who are just looking for WORK) than remember that this country was built on the backs of immigrants. My Irish relatives, who helped build the sky-scrapers, bridges, railroads, highways, etc. and fought in our wars against Hitler and others like him, would have been arrested if they came here today, along with my mother and father. Or maybe not, because their faces were WHITE. As are the faces of so many people who come illegally to the US from our northern neighbor, Canada.
The Catholic Cardinal of NYC, Cardinal Dolan, just announced that ripping children from their fathers and mothers is "immoral." This may not move the cold heart of Donald Trump, for he's not very religious, nor is he very fond of young children, but the pressure from decent American parents might get him to see the light. As a teacher for the past 52 years, I have learned that kids need to be with their parents and with their teachers, not in jail.
1
With each passing day it is obvious words mean nothing in the USA. Ditto for facts.
1
The little boy in the photo, frowning, afraid, holding back tears, is about to be separated from his father. We are sowing the wind and will reap a whirlwind.
I feel that this child simply needs a strong embrace from his father who loves him, and I feel powerless as my government goes out of its way to inflict lasting damage and nightmares on a poor little boy. Who are we to stand back as this is done in our name? Where is the outrage?
Seeing this child’s sad, hurt expression, as he tries to keep his dignity, for some reason made me think of the song from “Into the Woods”, “Children Will Listen.”
Be careful what we wish for, indeed.
https://youtu.be/Gey1PtXYwLI
8
You Can’t Be Pro-Life and Against Immigrant Children. Great Line. While the separation of children from their (illegal immigrant) parents is disgustingly cruel. But that does not solve the issue of illegal immigration. Legal immigration and support for Latin countries needs to be stepped up so families do not submit themselves to the many deadly perils of illegal immigration. But there will be few who think likewise.
2
Xenophobia, ethnocentrism, and racism make these cruel policies possible.
8
Dehumanization is not an act. It’s a process. It’s a process that often ends with mass killing. Stealing children from parents and saying it’s for their own good is pretty far down that road. The Trump administration has made it clear that it thinks Central Americans are “animals”. That’s their word. We all read it. Anyone who thinks that this administration is immune from moving further down this road isn’t paying attention. And anyone who thinks they are immune from acting in secret to escalate this war on human beings is probably the person who says “it can’t happen here.” But it can happen here. It has happened (lynching anyone?). And with this administration of liars, thieves and bigots, it will happen again. What we are seeing is the soul of this administration. What a horror show. An honest to God horror show.
7
Sure the right can be pro life and not care about any life after birth. They can claim to be Christians while they lie about Democrats, Obama and refuse to acknowledge any flaw in the Donald. They can also be pro Israel and anti jew. They can be dyed in the wool American patriots and try to protect the statues of those who rebelled against the American government. They can believe that the US was formed as a Christian nation when the only evidence in the subject says otherwise. They believe in states rights except when the don't. They believe in individual rights except when they are offended by their exercise. They believe Obama is a muslim and Trump is a christian. Holding diametrically opposed thoughts at the same time - piece of cake.
4
How Jaraed and Ivanka Kushner, among others, can sleep at night or show their faces at synagogue is beyond me. Did these two Jewish parents forget one of the central messages of Exodus and the Passover story? How can they refer to themselves as Orthodox Jews yet countenance the ripping apart of mother and child, father and child, sometimes when the family has been told (lied to) that the separation is a momentary one needed in order to get the family through an ostensibly benign process? Doesn’t this jostle his memory and his soul, reminiscent as it is of the selection lines at auschwitz and parents being told they were just going to shower?
The month before Rosh Hashannah is meant to spent reflecting and making things right, getting back on to the right life’s path. Maybe the Kushners, with their supposed power in the White House, should get an early start, because if they have any self-respect left, I have a feeling Yom Kippur’s going to be a zigged for them — or should be.
4
Anybody can criticize. Criticizing is easy. What's the Left's alternative plan?
Anybody who shows up at the border with children and says the word "asylum" should be released into the general population? Without checking that the children are really theirs? Let the ones who know they're lying become illegals and make their children illegals? Not an option. The American people voted against that one.
Or we could try the European solution; filthy, crime-ridden, refugee camps. We could make El Paso into Lampedusa in the desert. That's a good thing to do to children? Do we really think the Trump-haters won't be screaming about Auschwitz the same week that policy was implemented?
Or we could put the children in jail with their parents. In the same cell, same prison loaf three meals a day, same clogged toilet. Is that what the Left wants?
The least bad solution is exactly the same solution as when citizens are suspected of committing a crime and considered a flight risk; if there is a family member, release the minor to the family member. Otherwise, foster care.
You also can't say you have "family values" and be okay with this horrendously cruel policy of separating young children from their parents.
4
The headlines are getting more and more over the edge in this paper every day. Again, some Liberal telling me what I can and cannot be. And they call Trump a dictator. Hypocrisy does not even begin to come close.
2
Plenty of conservatives tell others what they can and cannot be, e.g. married to someone of the same sex. One difference is that no one compels you to read the Times whereas we cannot escape Trump.
1
Did you ever notice how many people who are pro-life are pro death penalty?
4
If you are truly concerned with illegal immigration, then enforce that your friends, neighbors, and local business people do not hire illegals in their homes, child care, restaurants, farms, and lawn care etc. It’s not a problem that’s located elsewhere. The “wink-wink, nudge-nudge” problem is that local businesses want to profit or rip off illegal labor while pushing the social responsibilities onto the tax payer. Stop hiring illegals....
5
We are expecting consistency from people who claim to be patriots while flying rebel flags? We expect logic from people who say that "God protects" while brandishing a gun on their hip. We expect lucidity from people who demand small government while beefing up security forces? We expect clear thinking from people who say that Mexicans are lazy AND stealing their jobs? We expect reasoning from people who demand that others pull themselves up by their own bootstraps, yet elect a president whose only attribute was that he personally promised them jobs? Dream on.
7
I’m sorry what’s the argument here, open borders for anyone with children?
1
Of course you can.
3
Have you seen the movie "Sophie's Choice"? Are we that close to the Germany in WWII? What is happening to USA?
1
Deport all illegals. They are a burden to American tax payers. They DO take jobs from Americans and they DO suppress job wages, overcrowd schools and lower the quality of education for American kids, overcrowd emergency rooms which they use as their primary care for free, overcrowd communities, public transportation (NYC MTA states overcrowding is the cause of subway delays), highways, increase crime and overcrowd our prisons. They need to go.
3
When Mitch McConnell and those of his ilk reach their final home, I hope they will be forced to gaze endlessly up at the unreachable stars, which will spell out Matthew 18:6: "But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea." KJV
6
Taking children away from their parents is just plain EVIL. There is no other way to say it.
I hope this is Trump's "Katrina" moment. Almost everything he has done in either wrong or dumb. This taking away of children is just plain mean and evil. Maybe it will wake a few folks up.
3
However, you can be pro-life and against illegal immigration.
1
The crisis that we are in is that the Democratic leadership has no clear-cut and agreed-upon platform to offer to and win swing voters. All we hear about is your hatred of Trump.
Others are not thrilled with him and his toadies either and would like something different.
What, exactly what alternatives are you proposing re family planning, foreign policy, immigration, trade imbalance, etc.?
We know that you hate Trump. Not enough!
That is not cutting the mustard guys, and that is the reason why still 3/4 of our state legislatures, both houses of Congress and the White House are in the hands of Trump toadies.
Please, please, please, get off that negativity kick and start putting together a positive program that can sell! The point is to win elections, which means appealing to those who feel loyalty to no party. What you are peddling is NOT doing that! You are just talking to each other.
This is a basic question of right vs wrong, good vs evil. America is following evil men doing hateful and wrong things and there will be consequences.
Immigration is good for America and Americans. If you take away immigrants our nation is weaker in every way. Imagine the United States without Jews, or Hispanics, or Asians.. the country would be lesser for it. Dramatically so. Things have not suddenly changed.
Pretending to potect people who are already here by being nasty to immigrants is a political maneuver. It's evil, and it's wrong.
2
Pro-Life is Orwellian spin. They are Forced-Birth.
3
whatever your views are ...if you are okay and not disgusted by this you have reached a Moral Low Point that will not longer be able to see yourself as a Human Being.
As time goes on Mr Trump will want more and more the point that we'll No Longer recognize OUR COUNTRY.
3
"You Can’t Be Pro-Life and Against Immigrant Children"
Oh yeah? Tell that to the evangelicals.
3
"Putting God ahead of humanity is a terrible thing.”
Steven Weinberg
3
This act of segregation, supported by a southern Attorney General, is an act of terror meant to scare other foreigners from coming here.
5
There is no connection that supporting pro life and be against illegally importing children . Ireland totally supported pro life, even if the mother dies. Today Ireland supports abortions. Ireland is no longer catholic
Planned parenthood is there when you need them ... they give out free condoms. And if people went to planned parenthood we would not have this proble.
3
Pro Life? Hardly. ProLife groups have distinguished themselves over the past three decades as Pro Fetus, not Pro Life. They are silent on the issues that affect humans after they exit the uterus. What do they say about health care? Nutrition? Justice? They are hypocritically silent. Pregnant women crossing the border? One thing. Children imprisoned after crossing the border? Silence. Hypocrisy!
3
Lady Liberty was recently seen crying. When asked why, she said, “Donald Trump has threatened to deport me back to France if I don’t say these words: Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe so I can lock you up and take away your kids."
_copied from a friend and neighbor
2
Do you think these people care?
2
Concur with your condemnation of the unconscionable mistreatment of children, potential immigrants seeking asylum, while escaping from violence and possibly death at home. How do you spell this hypocrisy and cowardice? T-R-U-M-P. This, via Sessions, Ryan and McConnell, worthless unfeeling barbarians.
4
THe expression "pro family" is tied into misogyny in which a woman's role other than being the host of a fetus isn't recognized. Those who ascribe to this mindset are basically misogynists who don't recognize a woman's humanity. And they can never admit to this. So when those reactionaries say they are pro family you should challenge their beliefs and say no you are just orejudiced
1
When have conservatives ever cared whether they are hypocrites or not!
4
Based on the author’s title and text, am I to assume the argument here is the children being ripped away from their famlilies’ at the border are being compared to aborted fetuses’? And supporters of Trump poicy are being compared to what, the abortion doctors? Is this right?
1
"Focus on the White Family" and "White Family Research Council" would perhaps be better names for the organizations. They are tribal entities and exist to propagate their own kind - which is fine, just don't be hypocritical about it and call yourselves "Christian".
3
I would like to remind Charles C. Camosy to be Christian and have a consistent life ethic, one would be more than anti abortion. One would also be against unjust wars, not taking care of the environment, not supporting the death penalty or euthanasia. I
A consistent life ethic requires we make sure the poor, the elderly, the disabled, have safe clean affordable housing, clean water and food, clothing. Not supporting vile dictators, as well as not making money ones god!
Christ bluntly noted in Matthew 25. 'For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’
“Then the righteous will ask, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you? ' and Christ responded whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for ME.’
8
The immigrants should do what my grand father did. Come over legally. Make some money. And use that money to bring the family here the legal way.
2
The chickens come home to roost for the Times. A long time ago the paper sold a piece of its soul by calling the anti-abortion movement the "pro-life movement." It was not alone in this, as N.P.R., P.B.S., and most of the allegedly objective, unbiased media did the same. Now, suddenly, the paper is arguing for a new "definition" of pro-life. Let's see if it will at least be honestly consistent and call the anti-abortion movement by its accurate name.
Perhaps then prisoners will be called prisoners, not "detainees" and torture will be called torture, not "enhanced interrogation."
3
Why be less than honest?
If — when push comes to shove — what you believe is that one has a moral duty to protect and support life from conception through birth, say so. But don’t call yourself pro-life.
2
To be honest, in my neck of the woods, if you scratch the surface of a pro-lifer you find a forced-birther.
6
Hypocracy is so rank and file among trumpista voters that they can believe to be pro-life yet are for inhuman and cruel treatment of actual living children.
6
Message: Avoid involving your children in law breaking.
3
It is National Right to Life not world wide Right to Life. We cannot intervene in every family in the world. Go home. Go to your home country, for which you surely long and work to make it better. You can do it. Take your children and show them how to how to live a good life. We are not the keepers of all who live on Earth. PersonallyI feel abortion is homicide but I think it should be allowed legally within limits. It is morally wrong and I don’t want to pay for yours.
2
Sarah Sanders feels biblical fineness with separated children at the border. What is the term for that? Whatever it is, it makes her christianity something negative and opposite Christ's word.
1
You also can not be 'pro-life' and 'pro-gun.'
2
Separating children from their parents and placing them in converted Walmart prisons, sounds like a perfect way to grow a gang member. Maybe that's what Trump and Sessions really want, a new generation so they can continue their bigoted, racist rants.
5
Of course you can be pro-life, anti-imigrant children! You can throw in pro-death penalty and no healthcare for the underserved.
"Let them suffer and die while we turn a blind eye" is the new Republican way.
1
Sad to say but in Trump's empire, you sure as heck can be "pro-life" and take immigrant children away from their parents, and confine 'em to tent or an abandoned warehouse on the southern border. You can even find a passage in the Bible to misinterpret and use it to explain this tragedy. Pro-life? Yeah till they're born and at your border. SAD.
2
Yes you can be a pro-lifer and anti-immigrant children if you are a rightwinger who only cares for the unborn fetus and not children after they are born. That is why the Trump Republicans can vote to defund children's health and take away food stamps from the poor, and snatch immigrant children from their mothers. The immorality of such barbarity does not bother them.
2
The fake dream of an exceptional USA is dead. The executive branch of the government has become far too powerful. Congress and the senate have been neutered. Trump exploits the worst of the bigoted and racist class of Americans. You have to a third and fourth party to try and represent the true population of your nation. The evangelicals have a distorted view of the moral imperatives and a disproportional amount of power. Whatever happened to "suffer little children to come unto me". Good night America.
2
Don't hold your breath for any evangelical group in the U.S. with any history of right-wing political support to EVER come out against pulling little brown babies out of their mama's arms. Or sending them back to whatever conditions they came from. Better dead over there than living over here, as far as they are concerned. Come out against Trump on this? Never never never never never.
3
Never say "never" - I'm glad to see that in fact some right-wing evangelical leaders have come out against this policy, even if they have avoided directly blaming the Trump administration. Franklin Graham called it "disgraceful" although he put the blame on everyone who hasn't passed immigration reform over the last few decades. A little lame, but to be sure he came out against what is happening. And there are other stirrings as well. Maybe none has directly come out against Trump on this, but credit where it's due, some have come out against separating the kids from their parents.
Of course one can be pro life and against ILLEGAL immigrant children whose parents put them into the predicament. Leftists conveniently intermingle both words simultaneously: IMMIGRANT instead of ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT. Get your facts straight; they are not.
1
Blessed are the merciful for they shall know mercy.
Blessed are the meek for they shall inherit the earth.
The moral bearings have come off the white peoples' wheels in the USA.
There is nothing prolife about this government, nothing,
And yet, semiautomatic weapons are prolife, as is denying people access to affordable healthcare?
Nationalism is a serious cancer on our society. Sadly, the consequences to so many will ultimately be catastrophic to our nation and its people.
4
Is it because they are more pro-white than pro-life?
4
Ah, for the love of hypocrisy.
2
photo reminds me of the little Polish boy surrounded by storm troopers. My God, is that what we have become?
4
Pro life and anti immigrant children? No problem walking by this oxymoron. Next!
Now that Comey is going down the drain a new focus is needed. Eureka! Immigrant children. All hands on deck. Pathetic really.
2
"You Can’t Be Pro-Life and Against Immigrant Children"
Apparently you can!
2
The Family Research Council is considered a hate group by the SPLC. It has close ties with various white supremacist groups and has long advocated policies against the LGBT community including bans in the military, criminalization of homosexual activities, and anti-Muslim bigotry. Trump appointed Tony Perkins, the head of the FRC, to the U.S. Commission on International Religious Freedom even though he is an extremist against Islam.
So expecting the FRC to exercise any compassion against brown children would be senseless. Too close to the white supremacists. They don't really care at all about families or children, just about oppressing others, pretty much like Trump himself with his assaults against women, ban against transgender people in the military and racism.
7
Pro-life.
For the majority, it appears, of those who apply this label to themselves, it means: only if you are in your embryonic phase. The moment you emerge from your mother's birth canal and draw your first breath it's, "Son, you're on your own," as intoned by Reverend Johnson in Mel Brooks's "Blazing Saddles."
Trump is, if you are short, brown and speak Spanish, a xenophobe.
If you are tall, white, shapely and speak pidgin English with a heavy Eastern European accent, it's "Welcome. Come right in. Can you change sheets and operate a vacuum cleaner? No? Not a problem! We'll find a position suited to your talents!"
2
In this cold-blooded and heartless White House of Donald Trump, where John Kelly, Jeff Sessions, and Sarah Sanders, all parents, have zero empathy for asylum-seeking families being ripped apart in the worst storm-trooper way, there's one who tops all of them. Nobody in the White House is more cold-blooded, more heartless, more THRILLED by being cruel, or more enjoying being hated than the actual architect of this fascist action, illegal under every international standard and law. And that is Stephen Miller, known for his college friendship with nazi Richard Spencer, despite being born a Jew to a liberal, progressive family. Known for his creepy ways, and dirty tricks, who relishes being hated.
Well, now there's good reason.
I've long doubted that "pro-life" was anything other than anti-abortion because they opposed other forms of pregnancy prevention (except denial of natural human urges--abstention), opposed pre-natal care for poorer mothers, and lost all interest in the "precious innocent unborn life" the instant its status transitioned to "born".
Now it's put up or shut up time. Who has put up? Franklin Graham. Who has been silent? Pat Robertson.
Let that be the lesson.
2
"In one particularly horrific case, a mother said that her baby was taken from her while she was breast-feeding."
Just for the record - you make a claim like that - you really need to be able to document it.
Never have voted for a republican and never will.
But I don't trust the NYTimes as far as I can spit.
3
Their love for the fetus stops at the moment it is born into the world.
2
Pro-life? Hah!
How about calling them what they are--anti-abortion.
Anti-choice
Anti-immigration
Anti-child (after the birth, who cares?)
3
He talks like an animal, he acts like an animal of an atrocious kind: An animal occupies White House!
Mr. Camosy, you are a dishonest man.
You cite the deep and enduring concern the Family Research Council has for children and families, explicitly denying this is any way related to being anti-gay or anti-abortion.
Yet The Family Research Council, and Focus on the Family, are rabidly both.
Their only opinion on the cruel spectacle of children taken from parents and imprisoned in Walmart or tents is that we should just shut up and go back to admiring Trump's stunning success in giving away the farm to North Korea and slavering praise for a mass murdering torturer of a tyrant.
You and our regular ultra-conservative , Ross Douthat, play the "Oh but immigration is such a serious national crisis somebody had to do something" card. Which is plain stupid.
You and your kind, and the bonehead greedy egos in Congress have refused for decades to do a single thing about immigration, outright refusing in very specific terms to even consider the issue.
What you need to say is something honest like "We can't be bothered to think about this, and locking up kids seemed like easiest thing to do. They're kids...they're gonna be fine".
You people are lazy, irresponsible, unpatriotic, and needlessly cruel.
2
You can't be pro-life and be against immigrant children. You can't be pro-life and be anti-healthcare. You can't be pro-life and be happy with Pruitt and corporate polluters using our environment as their personal trash can. You can't be pro-life if you've picketed an abortion clinic but never protested at a fertility clinic where women of means routinely abort fertilized eggs because too many "took." You can't be pro-life and have a gun fetish. You can't be pro-life and support Israel with the most liberal abortion policies in the world.You can't be pro-life and vote for a party that slashes food stamps and kicks out from under a woman any safety net structure designed to help her and her child survive. You can't be pro-life and refuse to adequately fund the NHI and efforts to protect mothers from the Zika virus. The logical inconsistencies and cognitive dissonance of pro-lifers are too many to count. It's long past time they were called out publicly called out loud and often. The "life" they envision is nothing but a Darwinian exercise of human suffering.
5
How many pro-lifers adopt children?
1
Apparently, you CAN be pro-life and for the separation of immigrant children. What is worse is that you can cite god's inerrant word to buttress your case.
2
The deterrence in this poloicy is, "if you come here with your children, we will torture you and your children."
They are NOT pro life! They are pro control! They are NOT pro life! Stop allowing their hypocracy to infect your writing. Language matters!
7
What is Mexico's stance in all this?
1
There has been a palpable through the looking glass quality about our political environment for several years now. This new world seems more analogous to Alice's daily, a world in which someone can "believe as many as six impossible things before breakfast." Trump supporters have to believe many impossible things all the time, and do, in order to maintain the strange fiction that he is an even acceptable president. Since they feel he is saving them from the liberal world order, they are apparently comfortable believing many impossible things.
It has been a horrifying ride that gets exponentially worse with Trump's bizarre fawning over every dictator he meets. Let us hope the horror has reached its apogee with this vile practice of ripping children from their parents' arms, but I'm not holding my breath. We often exaggerate the depredations of our political opponents by calling them Nazis. But, just now, analogies to Germany under Hitler seem entirely plausible. In his book about the years in which Hitler gained and consolidated power, In the Garden of Beasts, Eric Larsen noted that sane people couldn't believe that Hitler and his clownish followers could actually take over Germany. But they did, just as Donald Trump now owns the Republican Party.
I did read that Franklin Graham has expressed horror over this atrocity. We can hope and pray that this will be, finally, a turning point. But, I'll believe it when I see it.
3
Stephen Miller's immigrant Jewish ancestors are rolling around in their graves knowing that their prominent descendant is the author of a Nazi policy that tears children from the arms of their parents.
4
Actually both are pro child.
Being Pro Life means you are against the murder of innocent children.
Being against illegal immigrant children means you are against their victimization by their illegal immigrant parents or the irresponsible behavior by their home countries.
The real tragedy is that we still enable and tolerate deniers in our society.
2
hypocrites all.
Every group has sold out their "beliefs" and "principles" to bow down to thus Kim wannabe. and the elected cronies are scared to death to criticize. how will they answer their grandkids when they ask "why didn't you speak up?"
making an anti human rights dictator a bona fide world leader.
sleeping with the enemy and doing anything out in wants
holdng children up as hostages to get the stupid rally loving wall
raising rent on actually already working folks in low income housing.
want to boot NFL players out of country but see good on both sides of white supremacist rally
And that all sits well with GOP and unprincipled (and being used) supporters
why should pro lifers be any different.
3
Mr. Camosy is being far too generous: He failed to name one 'pro-family' organization taking a public stand against this ungodly Administration and its policy of ripping immigrant asylum seekers' children from them. These pro-life-christian [sic] organizations and their supporters have no qualms about challenging the "laws of the land" because THEY don't like them;Marching up to the U.S. Supreme Court to compel changing laws to suit their sensibilities.
"Given their support of the administration, and an unwillingness to speak critically about immigration policy, “pro-life, pro-family” organizations now risk being tied to these and other horrific practices."
They aren't risking anything; they welcome the affiliation.
This article leaves me hollow. The writer is truly naive in believing these people have a moral conscience that can be pricked with tepid chastisement.
1
The pro-lifers also don't care when kids get shot in our schools. Why do they only care about fetuses?
9
But....but....but....those immigrant kids aren't white and American. How can the hypocritical Christian Trumpists support "those people?"
2
Majority Hispanic in 2050?
1
You would have a point if these children faced genocide. But children in South and Central America do not. There are problems with violence, as there are here in America. I am also wondering why the guilt falls on the shoulders of Americans, Europeans and even Israelis (the latter being shamed for deporting African migrants). Muslims have over 20% of the earth. Africa in a continent 3x the size the US with almost 60 countries. The Arab League, The African Union, Organization of Islamic Countries. They are not powerless or small in numbers or land masses. The irony is the people who complain about "white supremacy" most are the first to hold whites more accountable for the welfare of POC then they hold people of their own groups. None of these people (Hispanics, Africans, Muslims) are like Jews in the 40's who had no country of their own cultural group to flee to.
I have mixed feeling about abortion but the "you can't be pro-life and believe immigration law should be enforced" (which is what this title is really saying) is a guilt trip I've seen done routinely for over a decade now whenever the far left wants to get it's way.
I live in Seattle and anytime the far left doesn't get it's way they proclaim "Seattle likes to think of themselves as sooooo progressives but" and then their refusal to capitulate to leftist demands is seen as proof they aren't really progressive at all. Emotional blackmail. I'm sick of it. (And btw, I don't agree with separating families).
3
On the backs of little kids, the trumpster builds his wall
4
Removing small children from their parents really is equivalent to torture. The damage is permanent. The younger they are, the more severe the effects. Only a few days can cause the damage.
It was one of the tactics of the Nazis (remember Sophie's Choice?). Are we really going to watch our government to stoop so low? Do we really want our tax dollars used in this manner?
1
These so-called pro-life groups are not pro-life at all. They are misogynists who want to keep women trapped inside their biology. If they cared AT ALL about women, there is no way they would support a lying sexual predator bigot birther for president.
1
This is horrific. This barbaric practice is shameful , wrong, cruel . This nightmare of an adminastration should ALL be locked up for human rights abuses
1
The way Trump lies about this issue, by falsely blaming Democrats instead of taking responsibility for ordering that children be removed from parents, is the same as Hitler burning down the Reichstag and blaming the communists. When are we going to confront Trump's attempt to destroy our democracy by destroying our common reality? How bad does his atrocious behavior have to be before we call his actions atrocities? Our protestations are too feeble. When will the opposition show some backbone and lead a mass protest against Trump before it's too late?
1
You can be pro-life and against immigrant children.
You can be pro-family value and elect a groping president.
You can hear every week a priest telling you to love each other and hate gays, foreigners,...
You can preach charity and take your neighbor’s health insurance away.
This is simply the universal definition of conservatism.
5
What part of the word: illegal immigrant you don’t understand. These are not immigrants. They are illegal immigrants.
Liberals like to hide the truth.
1
"You Can’t Be Pro-Life and Against Immigrant Children"
LOL. Want to bet?
8
I'm sure someone already mentioned this but...
You can't be proabortion and for imegration
Incarcerating children - the most vulnerable of us - for committing no crime, and refusing to provide them legal representation - this is what our once fine nation has come to. Had those children been blonde haired and blue eyed, none of this would be happening.
But understand this, for those of you who believe you'll never be targeted. At some point, the only way you'll avoid being a target is to live in terrified silence, avoiding even the most benign remark, lest it be considered against our "dear leader".
We have a "president" who has said that he wants "his people" to "sit up at attention" any time they see him. He's said that the press is America's greatest enemy. He has told his rabid base that the KKK and neo-Nazis are some very fine people. Just where do you think this is going to end?
I have a pretty good idea. Congress will not impeach Trump regardless of Mr. Mueller's findings. Trump will then cancel the 2020 election (claiming elections are "rigged"), and install himself as dictator. One by one, "disfavored" groups -- Americans of Hispanic or Middle Eastern origin, to start with, will be rounded up. Trump will lie again, claiming it is for "national security." When this starts, those white Americans who oppose Trump will be too afraid to speak out. And those of us who aren't white and Christian? Those of us who can do so will flee this country. The fascist takeover has begun with the horrific treatment of these children, but it will certainly not end there.
9
Trump has dehumanized Latinos and Latin Americans systematically to his base. This fact has not inhibited him from embracing the funds to be laundered in places like Panama City. Nor, has it inhibited him from licensing his name to various dubious JVs with Latin American criminals and scam artists.
But, Trump has regularly referred to Mexicans as 'animals' and he loves to play the 'gang' card to Long Island where it is a hot button issue.
All of this is distraction and side show issues to the main event, which is Trump is a traitor, liar and elementally corrupt seller of favors who must be removed from office, the sooner the better.
4
As with most of Trump's colossal stupidity, most of the unintended collateral damage from this moronic policy and psychotic intervention based on lying will have severe unintended consequences that will be disastrous.
He is breeding the next generation of terrorists with a reason to hate America.
Far from 'protecting' our 'homeland' he is creating its next wave of enemies and providing them with material reason for their hatred of what this nation is under the Trump regime.
2
This is 21st century fascism. Shameful.
4
Off-topic, but I wonder whether the NYT will ever fix their commenting software. The new software introduced a bug which forces many commenters to use Rich Text Format. No paragraphs, no other formatting. I notice that the text box also shifts drastically to the right, obscuring the Submit and Cancel buttons. Do they realize that the new software has problems?
2
of course you can especially in the usa usa usa where logic and reason go to die.
where the bible is for the overdog.
2
" Pro Life " only applies to the fetus and to white children. Haven't you noticed ??? Seriously.
10
"You Can’t Be Pro-Life and Against Immigrant Children"
Sure you can.
The Democratic Left Wing states that they don't mind Jews, they just don't much care for Israel or Zionism.
To many Jews like me, it's all the same. No matter how many "dog whistles" from the Left.
So many contradictions, and so little time.
4
This is just another weepy photo-op of people coached at the border by liberal organizations to gain access to the USA. Not buying it.
2
"These groups have extraordinary access and influence in the White House," writes Camosy. Wrong! Trump ignores pro-lifers whenever they dare to disagree with him about money or about ripping babies from their mothers' arms, because Trump cares only about (1) himself, (2) making the rich richer, and (3) keeping black and brown people out. Get used to it, pro-lifers: you're being taken for suckers by a sociopath.
1
Legalized Kidnapping. How long until some of these Children are abused even worse, as in sexually ????? Who will they blame for that ???
Obama and Clinton ? VOTE in November. VOTE out the GOP. Every single one of them. ENOUGH.
5
What a joke of a headline.
I believe the leftists are right: We shouldn’t separate illegal immigrant kids from their illegal immigrant parents.
We need to send them all back from whence they came.
Problem solved.
3
You can’t be pro abortion and be pro immigrant children.
2
To: Venessa Hall! Wow your comment striked me as lightning!
Amen.
4
What hypocrisy!! Pro-life?? Not even close: they're Pro-Lies. The entire Republican party is now the Right-to-Lie-Party. Shame on them all.
4
Apparently many self identified "Christians" can!
5
Amen.
1
If these were little white children, the cries of outrage would be deafening.
Instead, the hypocrisy of these so-called Christians is sickening.
8
You also can't be a real Christian, you know, the Christ like kind and support this policy. So take your pick. Do t be a hypocrite.
3
You can't be pro-life and against immigrant children unless........ you're a hypocrite. But we always new the forced birth people are exactly that.
11
Make America White Again. That's it.
1
What kind of nation have we become that we have concentration camps for children? Yes, as a sovereign nation we have the right to control our borders. There has got to be a better way. The Trump base's nazis and white supremacists are cheering him on and Trump feels he's got a winner. Have we lost our soul? Trump's phony Christians quote scripture to justify this evil. Hitler's "christians" called themselves the "storm troopers for Jesus Christ". Our Christian right doesn't seem that different
8
Terrified children being ripped away from their parents as they together flee horrible conditions in search of a better life. We are starting to look like Nazi Germany. We are better than this. Aren’t we?!
12
Letting everybody who wants to come into the country when there is a 700,000 case back log and 50% don't bother to show up for their hearing doesn't work. Splitting families up is insane. Let them come to the border, present them selves and ask for asylum. They can then go back into Mexico as a family and wait for their hearing. Mexico and Central America have a combined population of over 160 mllion, many times what those countries will ever be able to take care of, gangs or not. We can never take all the people from that part of the world, not to mention everywhere else, that want to come here. It's past time to leave "catch and release" and splitting families up aside and come up with an immigration plan that doesn't simply empty that part of the world into the u.s. and doesn't leave these obviously failed states to continue to go down hill leaving everyone headed this way. We can take every single person in who comes to the border and it won't put a dent in the numbers (the population of that area has increased 3.5x in 50 years). It won't be cheap, but what we've been doing for the last 30 years clearly doesn't work.
5
As many others have written, in the US, pro-life only means anti-abortion. Too many people, mostly Republican, refuse to support policies and processes designed to make life better for children and young families. To me, this is the ultimate in cruel hypocrisy. Protect the life of unborn children but do nothing to help and support these same children once they are born.
25
If you open our borders to the South, those who will come here are virtually limitless. Conditions are bad in much of Central and South America and the numbers living in poverty are huge.
Immigration is good to a point. A limitless flood is well beyond that point. So we have to draw a line somewhere. Everybody does. When you reach the line you’ll have to take harsh measures. Many have not yet suggested any harsh measures they consider acceptable. Perhaps, they have no limit. Or perhaps they want somebody else to do the dirty work.
5
The absence of any "pro-lifers" speaking out for these children reveals their true motives: to control women's bodies, and to suppress women's possibilities by discriminating against them once they become mothers. They never do think about the children.
6
After listening to a man that worked at the border on patrol. He said there are things Trump could do. He could try and make an agreement with Mexico to accept some of the immigrants. They could put pressure on the countries people are fleeing to take care of their own. Canada could also agree to take some immigrants. Trump has ruined relations with our neighbors so were stuck.
Asylum seekers have rights. Lawyers should flood the border to help them pro-bono. Church groups at the border are needed more than ever because our government is lacking.
Trump thinks separating kids from parents will stop the flow
but they are desperate and will keep coming. There is no plan in place to house the masses. We are turning into a 3rd world country. Trump is not making America great.
7
For entities such as the GOP, Susan B. Anthony List, and National Right to Life, the idea of being “pro life” means that you protect a fetus from conception through birth. Anything after birth - like proving affordable healthcare, keeping families together, fighting child hunger, working to end poverty - is the problem of others. Even during gestation, providing for life saving medical intervention, which could mean supporting a national health care initiative, is a non-starter. Their collective “pro life” stance was the biggest fraud perpetuated on their supporters. Fortunately, they have completely and irreversibly discredited themselves because of their silence on this inhumane policy.
4
This is one situation in which church leaders can demonstrate, if not their moral superiority to agnostics and atheists, at least their basic human decency, and that the doctrine of faith and service to which they devote their lives is anything more than a whole bunch of empty words. If Cardinal Daniel DiNardo, president of the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops, is as enraged as he sounds he should immediately recommend excommunication for everyone participating in this travesty from the highest to the lowliest, and do it pronto.
2
When we adopted my daughter from Guatemala in 1997, I remember sitting in the U.S. Embassy with dozens of Guatemalans who had been waiting years to pick up their visas. In that time, they had married, started families--never knowing if or when they would be able to come to the U.S. If by some miracle, it all came through, they would be faced with giving up their families or the opportunity to leave what was then a country that had been in a civil war (U.S. started) and make money in the States. The situation has only gotten worse at every point in the chain--including conditions there, driving people to desperation. There is no rational process for coming to the U.S. legally unless you have an extremely privileged situation.
To be met here with forced separation from their children only highlights the pointless cruelty of our immigration system--which serves nobody's interests, humanitarian or economic. Trump, however, is feeding his vampiric rabble on the blood of Central American children. And the right-wing religious organizations--evangelical Christians and orthodox Jews who support him are completely complicit. Truly, if Jesus, Mary, and Joseph were to arrive at the border, they'd wrap Jesus in a mylar blanket and put him in a repurposed Walmart and jail Mary and Joseph. The pro-life movement is anti-mother, anti-woman, and anti-child. It is an army of authoritarianism.
47
Pro-life has always meant anti-abortion and anti gay marriage. That is all the matters. It never tried to help children in poverty or single-mothers. For pro-life supporters, after the child was born, they were on their own. Trying to put a fig leaf of concern over removing children from their parents won't cover the fact that they never gave a fig about children.
4
There are unjust men as there are unjust laws - Mahatma Gandhi
Jefferson's statement in the Declaration of Independence, "...whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government...,"
1
Aside from the writer’ language, I agree absolutely.
But language is of ultimate importance. Never use your enemy’s words.
That gives them power to shape the arguments.
Only those who support choice champion life.
I’m a very pro-life person - that’s why I want a pregnant woman to have the Absolute Right to her body, to remove tissue, put there by force, accident, poor contraceptives or the ban on teaching their use.
What about life? it is much safer for a woman to have an a
abortion than to give birth.
Choice is pro-life!
Placing a fetus above women carrying one, always threatening their lives, anti-abortion folks are a band of murderers and torturers.
Ignore their rhetoric, they don’t want to help pay for someone else’s kid for 18 years at all.
I’d never make a choice for pregnant women or want anybody else to do so - the anti-abortion forces do.
If there is such thing as an eternal soul, it must be the total of one’s life, not something pre-wired to commit the horrors people oft do. No deity would allow souls capable of evil then give them free will.
If a deity ever really said procreate *and prosper*, it was in myth-time when anyone could do both in a barely populated world.
The ability to absorb those fleeing death would exist in the US if everyone, particularly the wealthy were generous, a rare combination.
“Pro-abortion?” Few are sick enough to terminate pregnancies by force.
Just remember, anti-abortion activists are true forces of death, not pro-life at all.
1
In order to be fully and consistently pro-life on a political level, in addition to opposing abortion one also would need (at least) to be anti-death penalty, anti-war, pro-social safety net and probably some sort of card-carrying vegetarian. There are no doubt a few of these idealistic pure souls housed in the pro-life movement, but their numbers are never likely to become great.
The vast majority of pro-life types are simply anti-abortion. Most of their other political views are hostile to life values, which in turn suggests at least some degree of misogyny. Loose women who get pregnant are to be punished. It's some sort of metaphysical truth.
Love the fetus but hate the child. Hate the child because of the guilt of the mother that birthed it. Once the innocent and pure fetus takes on a personality, it becomes fair game under the rules of Original Sin.
Or looked at from another angle, the fetus is like an undersized trout. If you catch a a trout measuring less than 6 inches, you gently remove the hook from its lip and throw it back into the lake to let it grow up. Then later you can catch it again after it matures and take it home to eat. Or if you happen to catch a few too many, feed them to your cat.
37
You can be “pro-life” and not support children, immigrant or not.
The “pro-life”people who are against abortion for any woman for any reason think that life begins at conception and ends at birth.
As long as they can prevent abortion, they are not terribly interested in helping the “born” children live a better life.
4
Those who are antiabortion, though they can't see it are inhumane by this very fact. The idea that they would condemn a woman they know nothing about, her circumstances, her situation, her mental and/or physical state, her financial situation, or any particulars as to how she finds herself in this predicament is in of itself cold-blooded and cruel.
These are self-righteous people and it is not surprising that they only see an immigrant family, different from them in language and color and their biases and bigotry comes into play. This child and this mother means nothing to them.
11
I continue to be confounded by, supposedly intelligent people missing the key point here. The immorality is in parents committing illegal acts and dragging their children inti it.
Coming into the United States without proper documentation is against the law no matter what you think about the law.
Why don’t these people act as agents of change in their own countries? Human history is replete with stories of valiant citizens creating new governments and fighting oppression.
The US does not have the resources to accommodate every person who wishes to live here.
5
As is well known, Trumps Make America Great is about making the country great for white people.
it has also been said that many pro life radicals are really fighting for the lives of white babies, being aware that the population of people of color is growing exponentially.
Now that it appears to be acceptable to be open about our views regarding issues of race and ethnicity. It is important to remind everyone that the children who are being “captured and disappeared” so to speak, do not fit in our “New America”... they are too brown and come from the wrong countries.
Those who have deeply Religious (i.e. Christian- especially conservative Protestants) beliefs must have found a way to tell themselves that God thinks it’s ok to take these children... Sessions has eloquently told us so.
I sincerely hope that those uninterested in this tragedy soon realize that children of color are just as important as their own.
We are all in collusion with Trump and Sessions if we keep letting this happen.
5
I am grateful for anybody who will speak up for the children and their families at the border.
But I am DONE with the term "pro-life."
It is beyond meaningless.
Obviously.
52
Thank you for stating the truth. Children born deserve our care and concern, no matter what. They are children.
2
I think many have been taken into the lies of "pro-life" or "pro-family". These are merely two slogans that have no menaing behind them -even before this separating kids from parents/guardian thing.
How can one be pro-life while at the same time against the social safety net that - barely - sustains life. How can one be pro-family while at the same time against social safety net that tries to help families together?
Indeed, this separating kids from parents is not even an invention of the Sessions/Trump gang but a logical conclusion of Mitt Ronmey's "self-depart" idea - make their lives so miserable that they will leave.
So anyone who tries to "shame" these people by arguing its immorality is wasting their time - the same Trump dumped on his former Sec of State but is doing it himself. These people are mean spirited and have no shame. They are at best amoral if not immoral.
We can change their "policy" by fighting them by voting against all of them in the mid term election.
2
Please stop calling anti-abortion groups pro-life. They are not pro-life. They are firstly anti-choice for women, especially those who are poor and non-white. Because, you see, women need to be punished for having sex unless it’s for procreation. And even then. If I remember correctly, the pain of childbirth was Eve‘s punishment for giving in to temptation. Dying in childbirth used to be considered the ultimate female sacrifice (as demanded by religion, of course).
Let’s not even talk about the shoulder-shrugging that’s happening with regard to wars, police violence, lack of healthcare, etc. All of these cause preventable deaths. The „pro-life“ movement doesn’t care.
It is not, nor has it ever been, about preventing death and sustaining life. Being „pro-life“ is about perpetuating a misanthropic ideology.
5
"You Can’t Be Pro-Life and Against Immigrant Children"
Of course you can; you simply have to be at peace with irrational thinking and the inability to apply your principles consistently.
Principles, but only in service of one's prejudices.
7
I'm pro-choice and know zero about the Bible but this article is ridiculous. The current choice is: detain family units pending hearing or release pending hearing. The latter creates an illegal immigrant family - as most never return - and creates perverse incentives; children are now immunization props. Further, it exempts entire classes from the law based on economics and national origin.
Which do Biblical scholars and immigration radicals prefer: mass family detention or enabling illegal immigration, child exploitation, and nationality based privilege?
Lost in the quest for Biblical answers are American citizens. Namely, how does immigration affect our vulnerable - does it help schools, social safety nets, and wages - and do Democrats even care? They use to. But not anymore. In their race to fight injustice, immigrants are the nouveau oppressed. And it's killing the Democratic party.
20
Mr. Camosy is either unaware of, or naive enough not to see, what the GOP insists is its principal and most unassailable right: to doublethink.
Holding them to logical standards is foolish. They're fighting the very idea of logical standards. Their argument is always the same. They start with their conclusion, use anything they need to defend it, and circle back to it as proof.
The Democrats need once and for all to recognize that the Right is fighting at the very foundations of thought itself. They decide what consistency is and is not. They see reason itself as coercion and they will not be subject to it.
12
Pro lifers believe that life begins at conception and ends at birth. Once you accept that fact all their hypocracy can be understood. As to the Catholic Bishops they supported the GOP and in many areas got them elected! Their post hoc claims of shock and disgust are hypocracy at its height! The Catholic Church has been politicking for the GOP for decades and has watched as they have eroded the protections for workers, seniors, the poor and the young. They have applauded them as their golden Boy Paul Ryan has worked hard to gut Social Security and other social programs. They saw what was happening and they not only stayed silent but they encourage some say ordered their parishioners to vote for REPUBLICANS. I’m not sure Christ would approve.
I find their new found moral outrage offensive! They don’t really care about these kids but they want to look better to the massive Hispanic community to whom they are supposed to minster. I doubt however that their joy at getting more privileges from the Trump administration and the GOP will diminish or their insidious support of candidates who claim pro life while doing everything they can to make sure those of us who are alive suffer will diminish. Let the church give up its tax exemptions and start focusing on its message and stay out of government. They helped create the monster that is the GOP. I don’t want them making government policy even when I might agree with them on an issue.
12
Many of these evangelical groups are not pro-life; they are pro-fetus. Once the infant leaves the warm confines of the womb and the hands of the doctor who delivered them, these groups would have them only swaddled only by the "invisible hand" of Adam Smith.
These groups tolerate no criticism or deviation from their full-throated support of Trump, the unrepentant sinner they love to continually forgive. His policies have made it harder, not easier, for children to escape from poverty, find quality health care, feed the poor, and generally help those in need. Certainly there are more humane ways to curb illegal immigration than separating children from their parents as some kind of "lesson" to deter future immigrants.
The Bible says a lot about helping your neighbor and doing good works. As far as I know, it says nothing about ripping children from the arms of their parents. Maybe Jerry Falwell Jr's version has some extra, bonus chapters.
9
How long before trump has these kids adopted ( or only slightly tongue in cheek, sold for medical experiments).
8
I always found it interesting so-called pro-lifers are against any aggressive govt aided contraception programs.
Abortions are at an all time low because of ready access to contraceptives. Logically, if pro-lifers really wanted to stem or halt abortions, they would be fine with handing out contraceptives in high school and govt sponsored family planning services (short of abortions) but NO!
Scratch the surface of their objections by asking, “Why not give out condoms on street corners?” and they get the vapors. The reality is most can’t stand the thought of all that sex outside of marriage! So, it’s not they are “Pro-life,” but really it’s mostly about not having their rigid, judgmental religious standards offended. Therefore, it’s no surprise to me that so-called “pro-lifers” are just ducky with how brutal and cruel Trump and his administration treats families seeking asylum.
6
The writer seems to think that anti-abortion has something to do with the rights of the fetus. That may be true for some anti-abortionists but for the majority of them it has more to do with the same rigid authoritarian psychology that aligns them with the Republican camp.
8
Yes, of course, it would only make sense that organizations such as the National Right to Life and Susan B Anthony List use their access and power to influence the White House to help actual living children, but nothing makes sense anymore in this degenerate age we find ourselves in and nothing will make sense until people with sense stop allowing the senseless. So far, there is no sign of that happening. A lot of talk and little action means more suffering for the living. Keep your eyes peeled because Roe v. Wade being overturned is on the horizon.
8
when you break the American law you have the possibility of losing your children, regardless of your status as a citizen. they can't go to jail with you and they can't fend for themselves, makes sense rigbt? I don t understand this issue, I m a social worker and I remove children from people's care , Americans, for putting them in a lot less danger than illegally dragging them across a dangerous border. this is all virtue signalling , American families are broken up daily, 50000 in foster care alone in L.A. County, and never have they uttered a peep. This is all to attack president Trump through feigned emotion.
2
Citizen parents who break the law are separated from their children.
This is such a dishonest narrative. Law breakers who cross the border are arrested, for breaking the law, and go to adult detention centers. You don't want kids in those. When the parents are processed (if they are the parents) they are re-united, and deported. The kids are kept in nice facilities, go to school 6 hours a day, eat pizza etc. Not ideal -- but having parents who drag you through the wilderness to cross illegally into another country is not ideal either.
These are not "immigrant" children, they are children of illegal immigrants. This is a key distinction.
Stop encouraging illegal immigration and the problem goes away.
11
Then just deport the whole family. Return them all to where they belong. Problem solved. They're not immigrants. They're illegal immigrants. They entered the US without proper visas and have no legal status here. That's a violation of the law. There are CONSEQUENCES. Just like when you drive without a valid license or break into someone's house, you are held responsible. This is the same thing. It's not about pro-life or pro-choice. Speaking of, these illegal immigrants CHOSE to break the US immigration laws. Now they pay the price.
5
it's unacceptable to have voted for trump and look the other way on this issue or racism, environmental policies, etc. politicians from both parties are often dishonest or self-serving but trump takes it all to another level. his supporters/followers are complicit at this point. i don't know if i can ever forgive them.
2
Thanks to Trump, his base is exposed for what it is - it ain't pretty.
13
I disagree......no person is AGAINST children and families: the only humane solution is to reunite the children with their families. Then return them to their country of origin. The breaking up of families was a choice made by parents, not by the children, not by Trump or by countries acting in unison......put the families back together. Their home countries will welcome them as would ours.
7
"If these law-breaking individuals continue to ignore our immigration statutes, we are considering, at the recommendation of Attorney General Sessions', amputating one of their children's fingers as a deterrent," the president told reporters today. Mr sessions had previously cited Mark 9, Verse 44 ("And if your hand causes you to sin, cut it off.") as clear proof that Jesus would approve of such actions.
5
We are so short sighted. Anyone who has grown a garden should be able to tell you what it takes to create a thriving, living, strong one. These children will be forever scarred, our society will wear a stain that may never wash out. Just as universal health care would pay by having a more productive and healthy workforce, these children would be a benefit to a society the nurtures them and not pay to have them jailed. We have so much backwards. Many follow a man who is truly evil and our President.
5
Sadly, it takes outrageous circumstances like the Trump/Sessions war against asylum-seeking victims of extraordinary violence in Central America to push the so-called pro-life crowd to care a whit about what happens to the (former) fetus after birth. Of course all kids and their parents deserve humane treatment when they arrive at our borders. Where have the pro-lifer Trumpists been as, one step at a time their MAGA hero keeps making the lives of the poor, disabled, and all the rest worse. Even Trump's fraudulent "charity" won't move the tele- and megachurch- so-called "pro-life" evangelists to abandon their new political messiah.
49
You are talking about illegal immigrants and their children. We cannot afford to have our border wild open without any orderly legal process of screening who we want to admit into our society.
No country on this planet would do that.
13
Trump and Sessions policy of seperating children from their parents is intolerable , inhumane and anti - American. It must be halted immediately. It is imperative that all people stand up and express their disgust of this policy. As a blogger recently said , “ Good people don’t defend a bad man”. And this policy is the product of two bad men , who do not deserve any support for their cruel treatment of families seeking asylum or a better life. There is simply no justification for cruelty.
4
Granted separating children from mothers is unacceptable, but unfettered migration of uneducated or poorly educated folks in a country with its own mass of poorly educated is not going to go well. Domestic violence is ground for asylum? Should women from India, Pakistan, Sri Lanka also apply?
Wages have been stagnant for last 25 years...what will happen to our existing poor when we add more unskilled, uneducated folks to the mix?
2
Amen and amen! Enough -- more than enough of this right-wing, "conservative," evangelical, pro-life, "family values" stuff. This Jeff Sessions, Donald Trump advocated family separation, child internment must be ended. Now, not later. This is the most foul obscene action of this administration. I hope every person, every parent who voted for Donald Trump for what they chose ... destruction, dissolution, separation of families. "Trump 'family values!'"
Happy Father's Day, Donald, thrice-wed and father.
4
This is not simply a political disagreement. This is a crime against humanity, and Stephen Miller, as well as Trump and Sessions should be hauled up in front of the World Court.
36
Perhaps you are like I am wondering if anything can bring Trump supporters to finally say no more. To say Trump has committed such abominable acts they can no longer be his followers. So far, nothing Trump has said or done has convinced 87% of Republicans to stop being among his loyal base. However, the extremely cruel, needless, and clearly immoral policy of separating children, some as young as 4 months old, from their parents who are seeking asylum from horrific conditions in their own countries, may finally wake some of them from their mindless stupor; wake them from their adoration of this ruthless, self-serving man who now holds the office of President of the United States of America. I hope religious leaders tear the Bible out of Sessions hands and put the fear of God into him because God never condone abuse of any of His children.
30
What we are doing to these children is unconscionable, and that our Attorney General is citing Bible verses in its defense renders his supposed practice of Christianity as nothing more than a bad joke.
That Trump's evangelical Christian supporters go along with this evil is the best example yet that their own Christianity is as false as a three-dollar bill.
The question that was asked of McCarthy needs to be asked of Trump, and every single one of his morally bankrupt supporters: Have you no decency?
23
My grandfather was one of the few protestors who stood up against the internment of Japanese Americans during WWII. Where are those who are standing up against the internment of children? I never thought I would see this happening in my lifetime. Shameful.
75
If this kidnapping policy ever ends, do you really think this administration is competent enough to find the correct parents for every kidnapped child? And every kidnapped child for the correct parent?
I do not.
55
There are likely at least 2 Billion desperate, sick, uneducated, poor kids who individually might benefit from being in the US or the EU. But neither the USA or the EU has room for that many people. Like the lifeboats from the Titanic, there is too little room for all on the lifeboats and Planet Earth.
Commentators overlook the problem of the ecological weight of 8 billion people on the Earth. There is no easy solution and many people in world realize that there both must be limits to immigration and there must be help for desperate people in their home countries. Immigration without limits is ecological suicide and many people recognize that real world problem- not all these people are racists or right wing nuts. Many people recognize that family planning, women's rights, and ecological practices are key to societies and humanities survival. The blather that looks to each individual person without considering the larger picture of the Earth/ Titanic is choosing a plan where lifeboats get overload and sink with all hands lost.
12
how does being pro-life mean you're against immigrant children? Children have always had to suffer the outcomes of what their parents do.
If you're legal your legal. If you're illegal you're illegal. It makes no difference if you're 6 or 66.
2
Separating children from parents is bad but a bit strange to equate it with killing.
When my parents split up I spent quite a lot of time away from both my parents. But I AM still alive. No one killed me and I now have children of my own.
It is a bad analogy.
But I hope a good policy is arrived at.
5
The best way to "stop harming innocent children" is to stop dragging them hundreds of miles through the jungle and past taco stands to get to a place where they have to break the law...the US border. Most of these people are economic migrants who've latched on to the idea of political asylum as a way to make a living here via extensive coaching on how to answer question from our officials.. Once word gets back to the jungle or mountain villages that the free lunch is no longer free, these people will either find a way to live where they are born or head in another direction. Enough is enough.
6
Hey, those rich Hollywood celebrities need more low-wage gardeners and maids to exploit.
4
Honestly I cannot understand why the parents of theses children are not being charged with child endangerment . The kids need to be adopted out to responsible families
12
A year and a half for a huge swatch of America to fall behind and support the demagogue in chief. This says very scaring things about your neighbor, a person you work with or sit across from on the bus. We live a country that's not close to the people pictured in the movie "Yankee Doodle Dandy" but those in the original "Invasion of the Body Snatchers."
2
Perhaps the issue is that a majority of Americans are indifferent to or actually approve of some sort of separation policy - irrespective of their views on abortion. I don’t think most people give much credence to the hyperbolic denunciations. The state routinely separates American children from their parents for numerous reasons. The separation is often temporary. Clearly few here have any exposure to foster care or family court.
If you hired human traffickers or dragged your children through the Sonoran desert for days, I’m pretty sure you’d lose custody of your children - at least temporarily. Would you allow your child to be crammed into the back of a truck with 80 other migrants for hours if not days.
I’ve never seen anything like this response ever directed against De Blasio or Cuomo for the failings of ACS and the Family Court system. And children in New York routinely die while under state supervision. But you would never call De Blasio a monster, barbarian, inhuman, heartless, cruel, and evil.
There are clearly deficiencies in how HHS cares for migrant children, but these hysterical responses don’t garner support for reforms. Instead, they come across as Trump derangement syndrome.
2
This barbarous inhumane policy of the Trump administration is yet again exposing his administration and his evangelical "pro-life" "christian" enablers for what they really are. Hypocrites with bankrupt morals. They are not "Pro Life". They are "Pro-Trump", and to a lesser extent "Pro-Birth". After the child is born, it's not their problem anymore.
In contrast, the head of the Catholic Church, the Pope, really is Pro-Life. I strongly disagree with his opposition to contraception. Yet, I can respect his Pro-Life position because he really does support of "Life" from beginning to end, as demonstrated by his humble words and actions.
I am unable to summon a shred of respect for the so called "Pro-Life" Evangelical "Christians". They are neither. And they are even louder than all those private jets that they fund for their entitled leaders.
1
Clearly the writer of this article has mistaken these groups for caring human beings. When a woman requires protection from protesters outside a Planned Parenthood clinic so she can get a Pap smear, we are no longer talking in terms of compassion. When a doctor is shot in church. When s clinic is bombed to ‘save lives’ you are not talking about logical people. Don’t expect them to suddenly become compassionate now.
3
Most of the pro-life, pro-family individuals and organizations you mention are neither pro-life nor pro-family; they're pro-birth. Once that blessed event occurs, these people wash their hands of any concern or responsibility for the children, preferring to leave that to the parent(s), or to market forces.
The irony here is so thick you could cut it with a knife, until you remember these are the same people who say, "If you didn't want/couldn't afford to raise a child, you shouldn't have had one," while simultaneously working diligently to deny women access to contraception.
53
From talking to many Trump/anti-immigrant/"pro"life supporters, I have found that they are so dogmatic, that they cannot see the correlation between what Trump is doing and their "faith-based" stance against prochoice. They also, despite professing respect for their religion, have truly forgotten the teachings of Christ. I am an atheist, but I remember the lessons from Bible school and try to apply those teachings in my life, despite my rejection of the trappings of the church. I am a very senior citizen, and find fewer and fewer people of compassion in our country and those who shape our policy. Instead of trying to get more religion into the government, these people should take their conscience into the voting booth....and I guess all of us should ask ourselves what we could sacrifice to save another human child, life or soul. May of the non-compassionate comments on this issue that I have read lately assume that somehow these immigrants are going to cost us. When I look at our spending as a nation, we could well afford anyone who wanted to come to our country, although considering the direction we seem to be going, I am not sure why they would want to.
29
Pro-life people don't abandon their children. Pro-life people don't send their children to complete strangers in foreign countries where the child knows no one and cannot speak the language. Pro-life parents don't declare their nations "unliveable," then stay behind as they dump their kids on someone else.
Pro-life publications don't applaud family separation, since they know the answer to failed countries is reform, not mass emigration. I'm waiting for the pro-life forces at the Times and elsewhere to put together a task force to deal with violence in Central America, the root source, instead of suggesting that open borders is a panacea.
But hey, some people are more concerned with the knock-on effects of population growth on GDP growth, so the details really don't matter as long as domestic markets expand and the supply of cheap immigrant labor grows. These people aren't "pro-life," they're "pro-greed."
9
I am opposed to the children of illegal immigrants being separated from their parents. It is wrong and should be stopped. But, what I believe is frustrating and confounds many Americans is how to solve the larger issue of illegal immigration on our Southwest border. Is there no solution? If not, are we to assume that for decades to come, America will continue to allow millions of people to enter our country illegally? We have witnessed both Democrat and Republican presidents failure to work with Congress to solve this problem. Is this beyond the capability of politicians in Washington to resolve? America has confronted many extraordinary issues and problems in its short history. Are we simply not capable of solving this one? I, like most Americans, welcome legal immigrants to our country. I am the grandson of immigrants. This problem desperately needs solved.
18
Is it the presidents who have failed or refused to face the problem and "work with Congress," or is it Congress, or both?
1
There's a great deal of pathos here. But the facts are that over half of the people who seek asylum never show up for their asylum hearing. They simply disappear inside the country. Logically--and legally--one can draw an adverse or negative inference from their failure to appear, i.e., these people who request asylum know that their asylum claims are specious at best.
12
Not necessarily. It’s a question of proof and the necessity of a lawyer, which most cannot afford. There is also the legitimate fear that their claims will be denied even if real. Safest option: disappear. That’s what any of us might well do in the same situation.
We are to a large degree these days, not a free society but a police state, particularly for anyone without money or a white skin. Ask yourself if you were poor, terrified, and fleeing persecution in a European country or the US by going to a country where most people were not white, what you would do if disappearing seemed the safest option.
2
Or maybe under almost all circumstances when a reasonable, educated , person might expect to receive asylum they are refused and rather than risk immediately being deported ( there is no notice, you know) they are put on s plane.
1
That's a non sequitur.
Actually, Mr. Camosy many conservatives would disagree with you: they most certainly can be pro-life and against immigrant children and many are just that. Democrats must accept the fact that there is an inherent meanness in today’s conservative Republican political philosophy. Their philosophy leads them to take several insensitive and even antisocial positions: opposition to gun control measures despite a rash of gun-related mass murders, support for supply-side economic policies despite rapidly worsening wealth and income disparity, an unwillingness to admit that people of color still experience disparate treatment by whites based on their race. A few years ago, I was speaking to a Republican businessman I know about politics. I opined that the Republican Party would end the Democratic Party if they followed Jack Kemp’s advice and made a serious effort to court African-Americans and Latinos. He told me they (Republicans) don’t want them.
33
It has always seemed to me that "pro-life" voters are passionate about fetuses but lose interest in babies and mothers as soon as birth occurs. Why else is there no single-payer healthcare system here in the U.S., where so many pregnant women and at-risk infants can't afford medical attention? This country has a shameful rating among first-world countries when it comes to mother/child survival rates. Republicans know that fetuses cost them nothing, but medical care for all would cost money and require a raise in taxes. So they just keep telling women what to do, without doing anything themselves.
105
Why should pro-choice care!
carrobin,
life is a misnomer - they are pro birth not pro life- after birth, it's okay to provide sub standard health care, sub standard schools, and now we've seen it's okay to "Lock Them Up!"
Sad
I don't think anyone is "passionate"about fetuses.
And I’m not one who’s happy about undocumented workers taking jobs from documents, US citizen workers (as I’ve seen happen in a variety of fields and jobs that MANY Americans would gladly take!)
13
These children are going to take somebody's jobs? Really?
1
You're daffy. How many 'Muricans want jobs where they stand 10 or so hours a day cutting fish or cattle carcasses, or mow lawns in blazing summer heat, or clean homes and hotel rooms, or pull produce in fields sunup to sunset, or many other menial back-breaking LOW PAYING jobs? Huh?
2
As an atheist, I was frustrated with the role of Christianity in our current ethical failings as a nation. I was shocked and surprised when I read the New Testament again. What I can say is that Session, Trump, and the entire Republican Party do more to undermine the words of the preacher from Galilee than I, or any atheist, has ever done with arguments about magical thinking. By quoting Paul, who is only citing the example of Jesus, on following the law, Sessions committed heresy. Rather than praise Jesus for submitting to Rome and accepting the punishment of crucification for the crime he confessed to, he praises Rome. This heresy, repeated by many American Christians, and used to justify great evil, is an attack on the church, and I am shocked that the church doesn’t seem to even notice.
121
Evangelical Christianity is at best, a life style, and at worst an excuse for terrible behavior.
1
There really is nothing more embarrassing than a self-declared atheist insisting they know of Christianity.
If Trump actually reads the Bible at all, by his behavior, I can only assume that he takes his inspiration from Pharaoh, King Herod and Caesar.
1
I think it is safe to assume that many Trump supporters who don't have a problem with this policy are also staunch defenders of their 2nd Amendment rights, so I would point out the following: the 8th Amendment prohibits cruel and unusual punishment. Support that one, too.
55
@Gibson Fenderstrat: Thanks for pointing to the 8th Amendment against cruel and unusual punishment. And before we even get there, the 5th Amendment (and the 14th) prohibits punishment at all for pretrial detainees: "nor shall any person ... be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law." In Bell v. Wolfish (1979), the court found that 'jail conditions that amount to punishment of the detainee violate due process'.
12
It’s not punishment. It’s merely border control.
The cruel, heartless Trump mis-administration announced ahead of time these wrenching separations of young children from their mothers and fathers. Now the mis-administration's policy is blowing up in its face as we watch terrified children and their anguished parents suffer Trump-Sessions-Republican emotional brutality. It goes without saying, but I'll say it anyway: Trump blames Democrats. When Trump is caught lying, his m.o. is to lie more loudly. The man has no shame and no emotional capacity to feel shame. This is a signature trait of any sociopath.
133
Catholics , Evangelicals and Grahm followers you elected a out of control President and GOP congress. To allow kids to be taken from their parents is ostracizing them and it will affect them for life. Our Pope told Trump a true Christian builds bridges not wall. You have all failed in the true meaning of being a Christian so there is a place for you with the devil. Good riddance.
2
It’s also the reason Trump loves murderous dictators and wishes “his people” would snap to attention just like Kim’s.
1
How is it “ blowing up in their faces”? They keep doing what they’re doing and the base eats it up
1
Lets us on the left get past the obvious truth that separating children from illegal border crossers is evil. But that easy stand does not end the issue at the root of the problem: What do we do about illegal immigration? Do we just have to throw up our hands and allow anyone into the country who states they are at risk from some form of violence?
Although America has allowed around 1 million legal immigrants to enter and become citizens for decades, (way more than any other country) it is very difficult to immigrate illegally. One million per year is only 1 immigrant out of every 7,000 persons in the world per year. One needs a lot of money to fly in as a tourist, or great physical stamina to sneak in. If it were made easy, immigration would skyrocket as countries around the world falter.
So, how do we make it much harder for people to immigrate illegally in a way that is not cruel? Or must we house, employ, educate, and give health care to all comers?
Separating children is an intentionally provocative policy that only diehards support. Opposing it and stopping there is little more than moralistic posturing.
At the end of the day we need a solution to the illegal immigration problem that does not leave the left vulnerable to the accusation that we care more about illegal immigrants than we care about our own citizens who are suffering from economic insecurity, job loss, and low pay. Otherwise, they will again vote for charlatans that tell them what they want to hear.
40
Having recently travelled to Dubai, I wonder if they have it right. I met a number of migrants working in service jobs. When I asked what it was like to be living in the area, they said the government welcomes others into the country to work and live legally, but they understand they will never have a chance to be citizens. Can we create a similar path. Let people work, live here safely but not receive the benefits of full citizenship? I am interested to know the arguments for and against a similar approach.
6
If your country spent five per cent of your absurd defense budget on forign aid and infrastructure in the countries where the bulk of the refugees come from, rather than bombing or economically crippling them, then the asylum seekers would have no reason to flee their homes. The USA consistently creates turmoil in forign lands and then wonders why people who's homelands have been devastated want to flee. Your protectionist attitude and policies and your roughshod treatment of both allies and enemies is the root of the problem. your greed will ultimately be your undoing.
Editor’s note: This comment has been anonymized in accordance with applicable law(s).
3
I suppose we could go this route, though it might require defacing that plaque on the Statue of Liberty.
The term pro-life is empty of meaning. The correct term is "anti-abortion," and I would add "anti-woman," because that is the net result of this movement. Women and men who are pro-choice are often personally opposed to having an abortion. There are many circumstances which require women to seek a medical termination to a pregnancy , especially in the first trimester. Most women who seek an abortion are affiliated with a religious faith.
Trump's border policies are racist, pure and simple. He cares about no one but himself and will do and say anything to appease the most virulent anti-immigrant voters in his base.
When Jefferson Beauregard Sessions stood at the podium and cited scripture to defend taking children from their parents' arms, he proved Coretta Scott King's letter to Congress urging them not to nominate him for a judgeship.
I'm glad there are anti-abortion people who are voicing their concerns about Trump's inhumane border policy, but what I would like to know is why you can't respect a woman's right to choose what happens to her own body?
84
The term pro-choice is empty of meaning. The correct term is anti-life, or pro-death. Because that is the net result of this movement.
See I can play that game as well.
1
Pro life is pro woman. I am a pro life woman and I can attest to that fact. When you abort a fetus you are killing an innocent victim in the womb. You can call us anti abortion but one thing Is for certain we are against the taking of innocent human life. That will never change and we will never stop promoting life which is the most precious of things on earth.
1
Abortion and immigration are exactly alike: they are manipulators for voter acquisition and retention. Within that context, there need be no logic, there should be no surprise when they are inconsistent, there is merely indoctrination of values designed for resonance rather than through conviction.
Yes, thoughtful people do have sincere opinions on these issues emanating from personal convictions and philosophies, but the tribal, visceral, cacophony of political operatives reflect strategies to press gang rather than to represent the voters they need for power.
34
Nationalists are always against abortion because in theory, less kids means less canon fodder for war. That’s why Putin hates abortion, and further; why he later decided he hates gay rights/ gay marriage and LGBT folks in General. He’s under the mistaken belief that forcing those people under ground will increase the birth rate. This attitude is also being embraced in Poland and elsewhere as those Eastern European nations turn rightward. They are preparing for war
Both the left and the right are forever shaming the other side and portraying themselves as morally superior. Both sides need to stop that. There are practical considerations involved in both the abortion and illegal immigration issues. There are human rights and constitutional rights. Both issues involve elements of personal responsibility for one's actions as well as moral and spiritual values. When it comes to illegal immigrants, somebody has to decide where to draw the line, who to let in, who to turn back, and what process to follow, Anybody who objects to the separation policy should suggest a better policy for dealing with families apprehended crossing the border in the process of enforcing the law, or they should state clearly that they do not want the law enforced when minor children accompany an adult. Immigration law is not the only law that affects children. Parents are arrested and jailed every day for drug crimes, theft and robbery, and drunk driving, and their young children placed in state custody if no other parent or grandparent takes responsibility for their care. Children are hurt when parents break the law. We should expect that law enforcement and social service agencies do everything possible to minimize their emotional pain and protect and provide for them, but we should also expect that laws are enforced.
19
Yes, many social problems have escalated since the morally bankrupt policies such as "trickle down" economics (tax) policies, among many others, were adopted quite some time ago.
13
Both in illegal immigration and the criminality of citizens is the same issue: the children. When we separate children from parents we create a situation which is not natural.
The problem on both sides of 'the border' is that by doing so little to educate people we are encouraging them to have children that they cannot support. Politicians are either unaware of this fact or do not care. And the narrative resonates because of the ignorance.
For example; Planned Parenthood provides pre natal health care for poor women but more important provides the education and materials to avoid pregnancy. Less than 10% of their budget is used for abortion. But we've all heard the charges and seen the attacks.
It's almost as if our 'leaders' prefer ignorance and blind submission.
23
Abigail, it's pretty easy to come up with a better policy. Do what the last two administrations did--detain the parents and children together, if you must. My preference would be release families into the community and hire more immigration judges and lawyers to process asylum cases. You're making a false analogy when you compare asylum seekers to convicted criminals in the U.S. You're also ignoring that young children are being detained in prison-like facilities (unlike the children of ordinary criminals.) There's no excuse for treating children like this.
2
We can't let every illegal in who brings along a child - that makes immigration efforts almost useless. Where's the efforts to discourage this from occurring - by publicizing the policy within Mexico?
20
Re publicizing inhumane U.S. policies in Mexico as a deterrent: I thought the idea of "shock and awe" (i.e. prove we can "outbad" the bad guys as tried out by the U. S. in Iraq), certainly does not seem to have worked out so great for us or for Europe. Seems Europe has born more of the arguably direct/indirect consequences of that war. If anything doesn't publicizing our inhumanity just improve the relative standing of Putin if not as a "humanitarian" at least as a not so different "pragmatist"?
8
Let's get in our time machine and go back to Reagan and not support dictators in Latin America.
That would have helped a lot for the future of people leaving unstable situations and we would not have some of the self-created problems on top of their own problems.
These things do not happen in vacuums.
1
Interesting that you say only Mexico when suggesting where US should advertise (educate public) about the new automatic child-parent separation practice. It’s telling that you left out advertising in Canada, which shares a much larger border with the US, and every other country in the world. Especially since I’m aware of many more “illegal immigrants” who are lily-white Brits, Swedes, Belgians, Poles and Irish than I do Mexicans or Central- or South- Americans. You just don’t recognize them because they look just like you.
1
I agree with anyone who denounces the horrible policy of separating undocumented parents from their children. However, Mr. Camosy statement about being pro-life, "It acknowledges that protecting children, including ones not yet born, often requires protecting and supporting their mothers and families too," is contradictory to what the pro-life movement represents.
I am waiting for the pro-life movement to start supporting policies that guarantees food, clothing, and shelter for every person in the U.S. I am waiting for the pro-life movement to support a single-payer health care system so every American can get the healthcare they need without worrying. I am waiting for the movement to support quality education for everyone.
Before pro-lifers worry about protecting the unborn, they should protect the born. Then I might take them seriously.
243
Pro-lifers obsession with the unborn clearly has nothing to do with the babies that are born; hence the lack of support for disadvantaged mothers and their children. Seems it’s really about controlling women, their bodies, and their lives.
2
reply to Joe Sparks, Wheaton, MD
Please consider an adjustment to your language. As noted by Christine, from Georgia (in an earlier comment), the appropriate term is anti-choice or anti-abortion. These folks prove over and over that they are anything but "pro-life" as you note in your concluding statement.
1
Is Charles Camosy seriously asking how this apparent example of cognitive dissonance exists? How pro-lifers can be against immigrant children is not all that shocking when you understand that to many on the right this is an issue of law, and those that break the law should pay the price (even if a child).
What I think is the bigger and more relevant question is how can people who are pro-life be in favor of reducing (or eliminating) support for school lunches, education, free healthcare for expecting mothers and their born children, etc., and at the same time support the death penalty. I have always thought, probably wrongly, that those on the right who subscribe to wanting to strip American citizens of a safety net or a hand up in life (because they were born into the wrong family, live in the wrong neighborhood, etc.) believe that the unborn child is worth saving but once born the support should end and self determination begin. Simply put by the right: Judeo-Christian values mean one fights to ensure the birth of every fetus, but once in the world its the parents’ and child’s own responsibility to succeed, and once the children is old enough if they commit a crime that life should be taken from them (unless they are of certain economic status, then they can be forgiven).
47
Also, to many who claim to be evangelical Christians, brown children don’t matter as much as they white ones.
1
Thanks; you've detailed the blatant hypocrisy ... I call it 'a la carte' christianity and ask the 'pro life' folks; what about 'thou shalt not kill' or 'feed the hungry' or 'house the homeless' ... The Bible, like the U.S. Constitution, is open to myriad conflicting interpretations. Makes sense, they were both written by human beings, not by 'Gods'.
1
Haven't we figured out that pro-life only means anti-abortion? If people were really pro-life they would be against the death penalty, especially since it's been found that many people who receive the death penalty are eventually proven innocent. Pro-life people would be for universal healthcare, better education, gun control, fairer wages. But anti-abortion people are often pro-gun, anti-universal healthcare, in favor of lower taxes so schools can't function properly. Most anti-abortion people don't care much about the children who are already born.
141
And for those concerned with budget issues; execution cost much much more than keeping a person in prison for life. Crazy, ain't it ?
I took a class last month called Writing About Mental Illness. It was taught by a man who is both a writer and a licensed psychologist. He said one of the main causes of mental illness is childhood trauma. Life is hard enough on these children whose families are often fleeing for their lives. Do we really want to traumatize them even more by ripping them from their families and potentially causing them lifelong mental problems?
90
Blame the parents for breaking our laws and causing the pain inflicted upon these children. Americans are not responsible for causing any long term trauma. The parents were warned long before they arrived that they should not come here illegally. They are at fault not us. These people need to listen and follow orders.
1
Thank you, Linda.
1
"Because of their support of the president and general silence on his administration’s actions, the major players in the pro-life movement are now tethered to his horrific border policies."
You got that right. The longer they stay silent, the more complicit they are. Message to Sessions, Stephen Miller, and Donald Trump: you can't pass the buck on this, you now own this issue.
The president is ducking and weaving, trying to palm this one off on the Democrats, which is truly rich given the proximity of his office to that of Stephen Miller who's behind this policy. When even the president is looking for an exit, you know you have problems.
That pro-life organizations can't come out and condemn the policy, simply puts a lie to their missions.
I think this family separation policy is going to be the undoing of this administration, because it was crafted and approved in secret before being implemented at the border.
It wasn't floated, or tested, it was rushed out and into practice sooner than you could say, "take the kids."
The optics are bad, but the policy is worse. Come on, religious right: where are you?
181
reply to ChristineMcM, Massachusetts
Please consider an adjustment to your language. As noted by Christine, from Georgia (in an earlier comment), the appropriate term is anti-choice or anti-abortion. These folks prove over and over that they are anything but "pro-life" as you note in your concluding statement.
This is government sanctioned child abuse. And Sessions, Miller , and our allegedly Christian president seem to be rather gleeful about. Perhaps only white babies are important to them. What about "beautiful children of God?"
Funny how one never ever heard anything about our old friend Steven Miller... yet he is still there doing unknown and untold damage to our nation, and one assume; to the sorts of people he has displayed hatred for in the past.
2
It is always heartbreaking when children are forcibly separated from their parents but it happens every day in this country when U.S. citizens break the law. Mr. Camosy advocates a special policy for non-citizens who seek to enter this country illegally. What is his solution? Of course he doesn't say, but presumably it would be to set up comfortable, furnished apartments for these people and their kids while the immigration issue is being adjudicated. Of course, the next step for Progressives would be to advocate for good medical care, recreation facilities for the children and top legal talent to advocate for these families while their legal status is being evaluated. I did NOT vote for Mr. Trump but isn't it time to put Americans first? Why on earth do non-citizens seeking to break our laws deserve more privileges than U.S. citizens?
21
Alex no. Just NO. When people are found guilty of crime their children are not just ripped from their arms.
The parent has due process. There is time to find care for the child, perhaps even with the other parent, with friends, close relatives or at worst within a regulated foster-care system.
We do not take children from criminals and put them in tent cities. We don't treat THEM like criminals.
Why does this have to be explained?
I'm aghast, utterly horrified that the most basic reality has to be discussed, word by word, with people clearly unable to discern the difference between "in the care of a parent or other responsible adult" and "detention camp."
149
Sophia, I truly truly respect your compassion and concern for the illegal immigrant children who suffer the trauma of being separated from their parents. You note that incarcerated U.S. citizens can find time to find care for their children with other responsible adults. Sadly, those options are not available for most of the impoverished, desperate people attempting to enter illegally here. If separation is to be avoided, the only two options are to let the illegals into the country, where they will require a huge range of social services, or to set up family friendly housing in detention areas while their cases are being considered. Either course is terribly expensive. We have crying needs in this country to take care of our homeless citizens, rebuild infrastructure, and put safety net programs like Social Security and Medicare on a sound financial footing. I wish we had the resources to take care of the whole world's problems, but we don't.
1
False choice: Considering the money this country pays for 'defense' and the huge tax cuts for the 1% we should be able to house, feed and educate every citizen along with those who want to be citizens. It's just a matter of priorities and honesty.
29
It is Mr. Comosy’s right to oppose abortion, but it is not his right to deny it to others. His religious or moral beliefs do not extend everyone. In particular, I am offended by churches and other organizations that seek to impose their beliefs on the rest of us. Freedom from religion is equally important as freedom of religion.
While I personally feel that abortion should only be considered as a last resort in dire circumstances, I respect a woman’s prerogative to decide with her family and physician whether or not to seek an abortion in her particular circumstances. Those who wish to ban abortion should be just as eager to care for children who are born to mothers who cannot care for them as they are to dictate reproductive legislation . But for most of these crusaders when a child is born they lose interest in its welfare. The life of a child does not matter nearly as much as the welfare of an embryo.
45
If we were taking children away from law abiding individuals, I would agree. We are not though. We are separating children from parents who have shown blatant disregard for their welfare. Yes, uprooting children from their homes which are not in war torn nations rather locations with shelter, food, education (Note all of the American jobs that have gone to Mexico and other countries which illustrate the income possibilities.). I have yet to see a single starving person in these pictures. If you want to come to the US, do so legally.
8
With all due respect many of the people being attacked like this, terrorized, their children held as hostages, yes hostages so the Democrats and/or compassionate Republicans will cave in to president Trump who will then move the goalposts regardless, are not criminals.
They are asylum seekers. They have a legal right to be here.
Under no circumstances and under no law do we have the right to abuse children.
2
Seeking asylum from violence at home is a legal action. Many Central Americans are legitimately seeking a safer environment for their children when they enter the US undocumented. Can you condemn these parents? Can you empathize with these desperate parents? What would Jesus do?
2
Dova, how is someone, even an economic migrant fleeing poverty, showing blatant disregard for their kid's welfare. They may be breaking our law, but like most immigrants to our country, legal or not, nearly all are taking that risk to give their kids a better life. A parent fleeing Salvadorean gangs that might rape their daughter or Mexican cartels have made a pretty reasonable risk that getting arrested at the U.S. border is a risk less perilous for their kids than staying at home. That's not blatant disregard, it's a calculated risk aimed at protecting their lives or livelihood.The only ones showing blatant disregard for the children's welfare is the U.S. government, which is ripping children, some still breast-feeding, from their parents for reason but to punish the parents with a policy that harms innocent children. Some illegal migrants actually have legitimate refugee claims that will be upheld, yet Trump and Session's policy makes no distinction. It also aims to punish accused law-breakers and legitimate asylum seekers, all of whom have a legal presumption of innocence, without trial or any due process, which is unconstitutional. You can't build respect for the law by breaking it. It's not even practical. Deporting families that have been separated is harder than deporting ones who are together and potentially more dangerous for the children, some of whom have already been lost in the system.
1
Being supportive of immigrant children means not imprisoning them with their parents. They should be well taken care of, but that doesn't mean we have to condone their parents' illegal behavior.
And I still don't understand why someone seeking asylum due to violence in Central America needs to come to the US. Why doesn't Mexico accept these folks? How about Canada if we're not going to enforce the standard of asking for asylum in the first country you reach?
10
How are they going to get to Canada??? Buses are boarded by ICE.
2
That part of the world is so over populated that even without gangs, they would be lining up to get into the u.s. Mexico is at ~130 million, 2-4 times what it can sustain longterm. If you're from Honduras, you can ask for asylum in Mexico but that just means you starve or live a subsistence existence in Mexico instead of Honduras. Gangs or not, these people are economic migrants. The crises at the border is the poster for universal, free, birth control, courtesy of the u.s.
1
The asylum seekers are forced into not seeking asylum because they are told that if they do, they then will not be reunited with their children for an indefinite period of time. So, they plead guilty to a federal crime, not knowing that now they can never legally immigrate to the US.
FYI, Mexico has absorbed many asylum seekers from Central America
1
if so many who are "pro-life" are also advocates of this (and the death penalty), is it just a matter of timing?
13
people who are pro-life and pro-family care about *human* life. it is clear that the trump administration does not consider immigrants to be human.
16
The moniker ‘pro-life’ was just conjured up by a PR firm that realized it would be more effective than ‘anti-abortion’. Once we finally admit that, everything else falls into place: their silence on issues of capital punishment, immoral wars that kill millions of innocent citizens, deafness toward the plight of poor people around the world in the face of hunger, disease, over-population, political oppression, misogyny and more. Focus on the Family and the Family Research Council likewise crafted their names to harvest support. What all these groups actually represent is a vile regressive world view that is deeply vindictive toward those who are really oppressed.
23
Regrettably, it’s not that Trump is pro life; he’s pro Trump. These children are bargaining chips, nothing more to him. A pediatrician who was there says the adults at the facilities aren’t even allowed to touch the children, to comfort them. The cruelty of this policy makes me ashamed to be an American.
354
First Trump called immigrants "animals." That set him up to torture these poor children. Pure malice and hatred for fellow humans. Everyone should be outraged! This is no longer a county I'm proud of.
1
There is no room for anti-choice, clandestine misogynists in the Democratic Party. Its platform left you long ago, and for good reason. This attempt by the columnist to thread the needle is convincing nobody.
Mr. Trump’s assault on the most powerless human beings as they apply for asylum is cruel and inexcusable. However, anti-choice Republicans don’t care what a self-labeled Democrat thinks, even if he’s anti-choice. And actual Democrats know access to safe abortion isn’t a negotiable issue.
6
When parents don't let their kids walk around town due to fear of child abuse, how can we let children be separated from their parents at the border? Who is protecting these children? This is just one concern. Then there is the trauma of separation for the child and his or her parents. This is a horror movie.
29
So American criminals should not go to jail if the children have to go to foster homes?
Anyone who has read the Bible knows that you can't be an actual Christian (or for that matter, an observant Jew) and support Trump's immigration policy. Perhaps I should have written that you can't claim to be a Christian, or in favor of children, and not oppose Trump on immigration. There are so many passages directly applicable, and many include admonitions to act.
So, if you want to act as a Christian would on immigration, read the Bible and act accordingly.
20
Can we expect all the people quoting the bible to sell everything they own and go to the border to minister to the asylum seekers? If not, they're just grand standing.
1
Apparently for many people, pro life sentiment expires at birth. After that, you are on your own, especially if you are born to parents that are dark skinned or poor. And if your father abuses your mother, well, those good Christians advise mom to work on being more submissive and to pray on it. And whatever you do, do not seek asylum here because you are not getting it thanks to Jeff Sessions and Stephen Miller.
The hypocrisy is finally exposed in this regime. They are tearing families apart, cutting taxes for the people who need it the very least, trying to strangle healthcare, cutting the safety net at every turn, etc. Jesus said "Let the little children come to me and do not hinder them for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these."
This may be pro fetus, but it decidedly NOT pro life. Let's stop pretending that the GOP is pro life. It has demonstrated conclusively that it is not.
185
Sorry, but the "traditional pro-life movement" has virtually no credibility to lose. If you want fewer abortions, support birth control. "Pro-lifers" don't. If you believe embryos are children and therefore sacred, treat actual children with care and respect, and make sure their needs get met. "Pro-lifers" don't. If you want life to be protected, support gun control. Many "pro-lifers" don't. Their hypocrisy regarding immigrants and refugees is just the tip of the iceberg.
58
Those who are constantly judging others tend to be lacking in compassion. Pro-life advocates tend to expect us to live by their rules but they don't extend any compassion or understanding towards those who don't share their beliefs. I'm not surprised that they haven't spoken out against this policy. As far as they're concerned these are lawbreakers who don't deserve any mercy. After all, these immigrants and asylum seekers aren't real Americans so the end justifies the means.
18
Absurd argument. This debate has precious little to do with a disingenuous description of "immigrant children"and everything to do with the rule of law. By the tortured logic of Mr. Camosy, their parents must apparently be "pro-choice"...the "choice" being to willingly violate the borders of a foreign nation to the unfortunate yet unsurprising detriment of their children.
10
Funny how Trump supporters start fretting over immigrants' adherence to the "rule of law" all the while supporting a president who never met a law he wouldn't break if meant enriching himself. How do you reconcile this? With Trump, anything goes with his supporters, as long as he keeps delivering legislatively (or at least, pretends to); with refugees from gang violence in Central America, it's all about the law. You do realize that these migrant childrens' parents are committing misdemeanors, right? Tearing the children away and putting them in children's prisons hardly seems like a punishment proportionate to the crime. Talk about tortured logic!
2
About five years ago there was a poor woman in Alabama who was caught stealing eggs for her young children. The officers did not arrest her but gave her a truck load of food. Everyone applauded him. They called it compassion. Law or no, the policy of catch and release has been in place through both republican and Democrat administrations. And the reason is... compassion. Imagine that. Imagine when republicans had a shred of compassion for sentient humans.
1
I’ve never understood how one (Conservatives, Republicans?) can be so pro-life and force unplanned/unwanted people to come into the world and then cease caring about their existence (and others) the moment they are born. Anti- gun control, health care, public education, birth control, welfare for the families forced to have babies they can’t afford, environment/access to clean air, clean water, etc. The hypocrisy is mind-numbing. We see them for what they are, no matter what logical gymnastics they do to be able to sleep ay night. For shame.
39
The GOP is pro life is the biggest lie in the history of the US. A pro life person would not want to ax healthcare for children or anyone. A real pro life person would want to expand healthcare to extend life.
226
The Donald is not pro-life. He sees them only as a constituency to be used. Never have we had a president who cared so little. But he is giving the evangelicals what they want. The emperor and his church have no clothes.
17
Pro-life means being staunchly opposed to any form of abortion, at any stage of zygote / fetal development, until such time that your 14 year old daughter gets pregnant. Then your beliefs about pro-life can change, albeit temporarily.
I've seen this with a few Catholic friends, tho I suspect it occurs across many a religious sect.
44
To me this is a no-brainer. Who of us, as young children, would have been wanted to be ripped from the arms of our parents, the only security in this big wide world that we knew? The thought makes me ache for these children and their parents. This is the lowest point of this evil administration which has hit so many low points already that it's mind boggling.
33
We live in the Diocese of Madison. Our Bishop, Bishop Morlino, is not a Republican ( per his proclamation ) and is pro-life, per his statements. But he has been silent on the Immigration issue and pretty much pro-guns and anti-healthcare for the poor. And, of course, he wants to go back to the Latin Mass and discriminate against those who are gay. A Catholic Church that is smaller but more uniform is his goal, hardly what Christ talked about. So I understand his timid status. But it is pretty disheartening to the faithful.
30
Thank you for calling out the Bishop by name. More religious leaders should be accountable in the same way.
1
Follow the teachings of your Christ, not your church.
2
I can tell you, with great personal certainty, there is an ethical, moral life without “faith”. Take the leap.
The pro-life folks are all about micro-abstraction.
Separate a zygote from the female and you have great weeping and wailing and fundraising to high heavens from people so supposedly morally sensitive that they will do anything to stop it.
Separate a live kid from their parents at an age when there will be lasting damage to the kid and parent, and you have GOP social policy, lots of excuses, ignorance of asylum rules, and damage to the reputation of the US.
Make up your minds or at least quit the pretense that this is the only way to solve immigration problems.
36
I pay attention to our right to reject what would compromise our own life and well being, and the wellbeing of others. Believe it or not these are not in conflict. So we had better pay attention to anyone who tries to enforce otherwise, including the Supreme Court.
Pro- Life is either just guilt- (no! you don't have to!).. or it is about overriding others..If someone thinks that a woman's receptive physical nature requires her to submit to any pregnancy- instead of a child being invited and desired- yes people birth is not random. "Pro-life" is also under-currently saying a woman also must submit to sex without consent , which is rape. And they call that "feminine".
If someone desires a child they should be willing to allow someone's choice not to, and make their own decisions without overriding anyone, including their own selves. Feelings and agreement matter.
At what point do these things become discriminatory and harmful in the categorical sense; say oil and Gas development in any water and air shed, or habitat, at this point- when the oceans are full of plastic. .
What does this have to do with the "pro-life" expansionists? Pro-life is rooted in categorical discrimination, while claiming to be discriminated against. It destroys the separations of equal powers so that the wrong kind of power overrides balance; so that one fanatically greedy pathology can devour and destroy balance, which is Anti-Life
4
"Pro-life" is not the same thing as pro-life.
17
Faith-based anything can become perverse and perverted. The evangelical leaders of these large groups are Exhibit A of this perversion under Trump. They have either turned a blind eye, or have implicitly accepted, Trump's behaviors and policies as part of a greater plan.
The systematic child abuse and endangerment now directed by the AG of the United States of America and justified it by using Bible passages has now sealed these group's full abandonment of anything holy or moral.
The children of these immigrant parents should never be treated this by any government. That fact that is my government makes it a crime of morality and I would believe the law. Name a group, other than the federal government that can get away with systematic abuse of children in this country. Name one.
8
Quiverful. FLDS. Any group who practice the child-rearing practices advocated by Michael and Debbie Pearl.
The Trump administration has never been Pro Life.
Their policies are devoid of compassion and caring for the young, the ill, the poor, and the vulnerable.
They are mainly interested in tax cuts for the Rich and for corporations. Their Pro Life advocacy is just rhetoric and slogans- a PR campaign of malarkey.
Their policy to separate children from their parents because they are illegal immigrants , seeking to escape oppression, indicts their Pro Life positions as hypocrisy.
43
We should probably realize by now any claim to moral sensibility by the Republican Party and its constituents is totally arbitrary and intended for rhetorical purposes only. They certainly can be "pro-life" and then embrace all levels of violence and human abuse against brown people, or anybody really. The can and they do because at root it is nihilism they espouse. And like their spiritual embodiment, Donald Trump they will say and do the what is expedient for their immediate purpose, with no reasoned integrity or sense of shame in hypocrisy.
30
Democrats are a lot more pro life than a lot of pro lifers. It's time for the pro-choice pro-life democrats to liberate the term "pro life" and let it come home to a place that really values and supports life
16
America, this is your moment in time.
This is truly it. The United States of America, acting in your name, is using children as a tool to punish their parents for an action. Seeking refugee status is not illegal. Minors cannot commit crimes. And yet, with the full knowledge that this will cause severe and cruel distress to both parents and child, the government is punishing both parent and child, in your name. Representing you.
Before you go to bed tonight, take a look in the mirror. Think about what you would tell your grandchildren. Think about what your own children, family members, or friends will say about you at your funeral. Think about your legacy in the years to come. How will the history books speak of this period of time? And what will you tell the next generation, and the next generation, when they asked you what you did?
Will you be able to sleep tonight? Will you be able to celebrate Father's Day tomorrow, knowing that the government that represents you is taking a family just like yours, splitting it up, and making sure that they may never see each other again?
If you are an American, these acts are being done in your name. Your government is by the people, for the people. These acts, therefore, are your responsibility.
Tomorrow is Father's Day. March for humanity's children, if you are an American. March if you are a parent. March if you are a person of good will. If you have half a heart, do not punish children for their parents' actions. March.
43
Dads should be on the border, rejecting the values of the Trump administration.
21
Dads should not be breaking our laws by coming here illegally. They need to listen to us when we say we will not allow them to cross our borders as illegal citizens. Why is that so difficult for them to understand? We have laws for a reason. They must be enforced.
When the children are used as political pawns yes you can. The parents of these children hold the responsibility for the safety of their kids. The US has the right to enforce immigration laws and not be bullied by parents hiding behind their children to gain illegal entry into our country. This is the height of arrogance and politics.
10
I agree but that doesn't mean we should split the families up. Let them apply and then wait in line in Mexico or their home country. The asylum laws were clearly written before this kind of behaviour was even contemplated.
4
International law - of which US is a signatory - guarantees asylum seekers the right to a hearing. Right now the Trump Administration is separating children from their parents who are seeking asylum. They are not illegal immigrants.
How can you defend this?
3
Typical hypocrisy of the right and peope calling themselves Christians. Do you know what asylum means and why people may apply for it? Why are you suggesting none of them deserves it?
2
I'm not pro life but think there is a logical distinction between preventing what pro lifers conceive of as murder and implementing border control policies that deter bringing children into the country illegally.
I'm sure separating families is a difficult situation but the kids are kept safe. Its not a question of life and death.
9
"The kids are kept safe". Separation from parents is traumatic and can have life-long psychological effects. There can be no justification for this policy.
29
Safe? I hope it is not as bad as I imagine, but even if no one is raping or abusing them, these children will no doubt be horribly traumatized . We are all the children or grandchildren of immigrants . Please attempt to put your self or your own child in the place of these people
2
Safe? Do we know for sure? What about trauma? Should pro- life be so narrowly defined? Looks often anti-abortion is main philosophie.
The "pro-life" movement is only about "pro-birth" or "anti-abortion". They truly don't care what happens to the baby or mother once birth has occurred.
29
"Pro life" means respecting and caring for all human life, from conception to natural death, and every moment in between. It most definitely includes welcoming immigrants and refugees, keeping their families intact, and providing for their safety and material needs. By virtue of their human personhood, they have a God-given right to dignified, respectful, and humane treatment.
9
I see no connection between a pro-life stance and whether the illegal immigrant's children are in safe protective custody while their parents are processed.
10
The "protective" custody does not protect the children. It traumatizes them. The children need to be with their parents. There is no other humane alternative.
34
And that is exactly the problem with supporters of the Trump administration.
17
Then the Congress should change the law and if an adult with kids is sent to jail we should jail the kids too. I guess this will never happen, as being in jail is even more traumatizing.
"Pro-Life" has nothing to do with it. Anti-abortion, anti-birth control and anit immigrant match up well.
29
Nobody's against immigrant children. But many people are against parents who would subject their children to life-threatening, illegal trips north for the selfish pursuit of more money. The folks you should be criticizing are the selfish parents who subject their children to such abuse and emotional trauma.
15
Requesting asylum is completely legal, and they are fleeing violence in their home countries, some of which was caused by American support for right wing groups during the Reagan and Bush administrations.
24
Maybe the parents are fleeing harmful and traumatic conditions? Have you visited the countries?
More money? Perhaps some are indeed hoping to make decent livings, but many are fleeing horrific violence . It seems that you are in fact against these children
4
Trump Trauma. A new affliction aimed at innocent and vulnerable children. Trump owns this horror show.
39
Trump and his cult followers.
1
Many members of the groups mentioned by Professor Camosy are not "pro-life," but are anti-abortion. Big difference! One look at the Susan B. Anthony List website makes this clear. They talk about "the fight to save lives from abortion." It seems that for these folks, once you are born-- actually living outside of an idea or body-- then you are on your own and not worthy of their advocacy or protection. They care little for human beings once they have taken that sinful path down the birth canal (horror!), especially if they are poor (double horror!), immigrants (clutching my pearls!), or have the nerve to try to come to the US in search of a better life (total nightmare!).
36
My guess is that you don't know a single person who identifies as pro-life. You just roll them all together into one group and trash them. Really open-minded.
Trump/Sessions only started this policy for one reason:
A bargaining chip for negotiations. This is Trump real estate on steroids. A well thought out strategy by Miller most likely just like the DACA strategy they had, that is, don't settle and use those kids for leverage.
31
The so called pro-life movement is analogous to the anti-slavery movement. The latter hated the slave owners more than they were concerned about the condition of the slaves. You cannot end your commitment to "pro-life" the day a baby is born and say to their mothers, "now you are on your own." It is pure hypocrisy.
20
I don't know where you get your history from, but many in the abolitionist or anti-slavery movement went to the South to help freed slaves years before the Civil War actually ended, for instance in South Carolina. They built schools, brought medical care, taught skills to help the former slaves stay independent. Many lobbied for land grants to former slaves, although they lost that fight. You do a disservice and an injustice to these dedicated people, black and white. They may have had paternalistic or even biased attitudes, but they did care about the condition of the freed slaves, and took risks to help them.
13
Dean,
Sessions quoted a bible verse to justify separating parents and children, the same verse used by slavers to justify keeping slaves and separating enslaved families. This administration is an abomination.
1
Of course you can. 'Pro-life' has never been about 'Life'. It was first, foremost & remains about denying an identifiable 'class' certain rights guaranteed under Constitution, under statute.
Cognitive dissonance has always been, will always be the mainstay of 'Family first', 'Pro-life' anything. Does not mean that every individual self-identifying as 'pro-life' is immaculately evil, but they do lack credibility to have any standing with regard to influencing public policy.
Well, except in bizaarro world.
(unfortunately the inherent cognitive dissonance suggests that Camosy will never understand that identifying as 'Pro-Choice' does not mean that anyone is Pro-Abortion! to be honest I'm not 'Pro-Chemo' tho that intervention did save my life (while permanently damaging my eyesight, my heart, leaving me a legacy of nephropathy & a compromised immune system) )
14
The truth is that "pro-lifers" care much more about judging those who have unwanted pregnancies and forcing a pea-sized mass of cells to become an actual baby in often precarious and uncertain circumstances, after which they don't give a flip.
39
Your facts are false. The pro life movement does not stop at the birth of the child. The Sisters for Life are an important group of Roman Catholic nuns who dedicate their lives to helping baby and mother at all stages of life before and after. They have set up homes for the mother and child where they can live and help with assistance of employment and job training. I have met these wonderful nuns and they really do care. They do more than just hand out diapers. They are hard working and relentless. They are to be given a lot of credit and they never leave these women to fend for themselves.
I know we should not expect Trump to be honest or consistent, we should not be surprised when Trump is mean spirited, and it is regrettably normal when Trump (and other politicians) support ill-advised or immoral policies that he thinks is base will support. But this one really has me puzzled. If he thinks his base supports separating children from parents, why is he denouncing it? If he does not think his base supports the policy, why is he implementing it? (One could ask the deeper question why he would support an immoral policy whether or not his base supports it, but this is Trump after all).
24
Perhaps Dr. Camosy would care to analyze the favored, feudal economic and social systems which characterize Central America, systems which deprive the citizens of these countries their dignity and prosperity.
That citizens of Central American countries are forced into expatriation owing to illiberal economic policies is a sin.
13
President Obama’s administration worked with some countries in South America to help crack down on gangs and improve the lives of their citizens so that these people have fewer reasons to leave their countries. Why can’t the Trump regime do the same. The State Department is in shambles with many career diplomats who used to work to help resolve conflicts through peaceful means either quitting, or being demoted. The US is cutting the funding of the UN whose organizations help improving the lives of people in developing countries. There are other better ways to reduce illegal immigration than breaking up families who are already experiencing hardship.
153
The Trump regime is not interested in talks or even diplomatic relations with foreign countries. Trump likes much more to hit everybody over the head. Just think how is treating America's European allies. This is not funny anymore.
Trump and Sessions "enjoy" it rather to punish, like it happens with illegals and Asyl seekers at the borders. That this is cruel, both of them do not realize due to a complete lack of empathy. This is more than sad.
17
Was that done on purpose?
I have read many, many comments by conservatives regarding illegal immigration. They all use the same argument which is:
We can't have a nation that allows unlimited immigration.
They always get to "unlimited". This isn't about unlimited anything and never was. Of course we have to have enforceable borders. Of course we have to have a regulated procedure to gain access to America. This is something else. It is barbarism.
Decent human beings don't rip children from the arms of their parents. Barbarians do that. The children are innocent. Just by coming to the border, they have been severely traumatized. Why push their level of suffering even further by separating them from their parents and sending them to what are basically concentration camps for kids?
The truth here is that many conservatives view immigration as an existential threat to America and in particular, to them. We hear talk of legal immigration but in reality, they want no immigration.
This anti-immigrant fervor is so great and so intense, that otherwise well meaning people conjure up legal justifications for sending kids to concentration camps. Just read the comments posted here. That's what you will find, over and over again.
459
Mr. Rozenblit,
Excellent comment. We are seeing concentration camps here. Now. Children who have broken no laws and are denied representation are being forced into these camps. Thank you for continuing to speak out. Voices like yours are very much needed, especially now.
27
I respectfully must ask then, what is the right deterrent to illegal immigration? The European immigration crisis was magnified due the Chancellor Merkel's apparent open-arms embrace of migrants to Germany.
Obviously being torn from your child is horrific but what are the right methods to show, on a large-scale PR campaign, that immigration is not to be encouraged?
1
Bruce writes, "I have read many, many comments by conservatives regarding illegal immigration. They all use the same argument which is:
We can't have a nation that allows unlimited immigration.
They always get to "unlimited". This isn't about unlimited anything and never was."
But Bruce, strawman arguments are the de rigueur of the right wingers. You didn't seriously expect the fact devoid Trumpkins to employ logically consistent arguments, did you?
Bruce finishes with, "This anti-immigrant fervor is so great and so intense, that otherwise well meaning people conjure up legal justifications for sending kids to concentration camps."
Funny you should use the term "concentration camps". It's being reported from various sources that Homeland Security has a habit of telling the parents they are simply taking their children to the "showers". Hmm. Where have I heard those words used in conjunction before? Concentration camps and showers...it's ringing a bell, but I just can't place it. Can you?
I suppose we should be happy that the showers are, for now, composed of actual water. I'll bet the Trumpkins have some other substances in mind down the road.
2
For Trumpists, being pro-life and separating immigrant children from their parents can certainly co-exist within one's own belief system. And why is that? Because Trump and his administration say so. To put is simply, Trumpism trumps religion and "family" values.
In addition, the children are not American children. Anti-immigration (foreigner) spite is the real motivation.
60
The term is ANTI-CHOICE Mr. Camosy. People like you think that once a girl or woman is pregnant, her body and life are the property of the state. I reject that philosophy entirely - and if you were a woman, you would too. Best of luck for your continued evolution.
57
"The term is ANTI-CHOICE Mr. Camosy."
Then you won't object to the term ANTI-LIFE in place of pro-choice, right?
On the left - "undocumented worker"
On the right - "illegal immigrant"
"People like you think that once a girl or woman is pregnant, her body and life are the property of the state."
I personally think you can do whatever you want to do to your body, to include taking the life inside the womb. Just don't ask for the government to pay for your choice in ending a life. Also, I hope you have no objection to legalizing drug use and suicide - the choice to do whatever you want to your body shouldn't be limited, should it?
You can play this game forever, kathy.
1
For many in the various "pro life" movements -not all certainly- it's not about protecting the lives of unborn children or older and sick adults. It's about their tribe (political, religious, whatever) having control over other people's lives. For these people it's not inconsistent to be against immigrate children, indeed it's totally consistent.
53
The author shows a clear moral compass with a consistent approach to being pro-life. Many of those who apologize for this brutal practice of taking children from their parents will conflate these separations with what happens to our own criminals when they're sent to prison. In logic this is called the false analogy fallacy, and I know that it's being pushed on Fox News. First, these immigrants are incarcerated without indictment and without preliminary hearings before a court, contrary to our own constitution. Second, most of these people are not committing a crime; they're seeking asylum and faithfully following our asylum laws. Third, the small children of U.S. criminals are not sent to mass detention centers, separated from siblings and all other family members, allowed no human touch, much less housed in tents in the hot Texas sun. We know from psychologists that this kind of separation does lasting and often irreparable damage, but Trump's supporters excuse it for the same reason human beings have always excused inhumanity toward others. When they see these children--including infants under one year--they don't see their own children. They see a hated outsider group.
"It's the law" is just the other side of "I was only following orders." It's a way for humans to justify their own inhumanity.
61
Those on the right will not see any connection between being ‘pro life’ and the mistreatment of immigrant children. ‘Pro life’ is a phrase that sounds good to liberals, but it is part of a whole package of right wing thought, demanding strict hierarchy (women in their place) and strict obedience to the laws as written. In this worldview, punishment of the parents who try to enter the country illegally is paramount, and the misery of the children is irrelevant.
27
Agreed, it’s another form of objectification of human beings.
3
I agree with you, Mr. Comosy, but these groups are mostly made up of hypocrites who use pro-life as a weapon to control women and infiltrate government policy to make it more 'Christian'. Their right to life rants end with birth. Once a child is here they don't care about them or support programs that help children and families that are struggling.
They support Trump because they want their conservative agenda to be the law of the land. They don't care who he is or what he does.
I've been saying for years that if they showed one step in the direction of caring about a child's welfare, education, healthcare and opportunities to succeed that I'd believe them.
I don't believe them. It's all for political and monetary gain. A whole cottage industry of tapes, movies and books is based on it.
They don't care about immigrants and apparently not their children. It's sad.
94
Immigration advocates are purposefully confusing two things: Entry without inspection, which is a crime, and applying for asylum, which is not.
If you enter without inspection and you are caught, you are arrested. And just like anyone else who's arrested, you are separated from your children and you go to jail. In that respect, EWIs are treated no differently than any other criminal.
The police separate criminal citizen parents from their kids all the time. No one condemns this as "cruel." No one is worried that it might harm innocent children. No one complains.
Applying for asylum is different - if you do it at a port of entry. That is not a crime. As I understand it, parents and children are being separated even for these people. That is wrong and must stop. They don't have to be paroled into the country, but they cannot be separated.
The confusion comes because EWIs who are caught routinely claim asylum - immediately after they're caught. It's their "plan B." They didn't come to claim asylum. They came to sneak into the country. Their asylum claims are considered and, if they have merit, they are allowed to stay in the US. (Most asylum claims are rejected.) But, even if they are allowed to stay, they can still be prosecuted and convicted of a crime.
If you think separating foreign criminals from their children is wrong, but separating citizen criminals from their children is OK, you need to explain why.
10
Sure David, why not help you out. The entire extent of each adult’s criminality is their crossing the border, even if they claim asylum. Not drugs, weapons, or any other conduct one normally characterises as a crime. Trump’s policy, not any statute, is the source of that treatment. Where and even when the asylum claim is made, the Refugee Convention commits your country to keep the claimant safe and supported while it is assessed. Trump and his enablers disregard the Convention, prejudge or just ignore asylum claims and impose their arbitrary gloss to do with where and when the claim is made – at a supervised crossing or a few metres down the road. We sometimes but not always separate children from their parents who are charged with serious crimes. A factor is the parent’s conduct and their circumstances put the child at risk. It we do that for citizens, why not apply the same standard to families at the border? The adults in question have not committed any serious crime - arguably they have not committed any crime at all - and certainly do not pose a risk to their own children. But Trump is not weighing risk here by indefinitely corralling children in tents and gymnasiums and so damaging their physical and mental wellbeing. Finally the government’s tactic of prying children from their parents by telling the adults they are going for a bath is instructive. It is a sinister echo from history that should make you gasp.
15
Entering the country illegally is a misdemeanor. Using your reasoning, people who jay walk should be separated from their children.
2
Furthermore, publicly lying and saying that the Democrats are responsible for this situation and not a policy decision of Trump and his administration deserves condemnation.
60
Children require us to be good. When we are morally reprehensible they still require us to be good. Consciousness matters. These children will never be able to forget—or maybe even forgive—this cruelty. How will they react to such a tragically misguided policy as time passes? What will our country ever mean to them? In addition to lacking any empathy, or a sense of basic decency, Trump and Sessions also lack a basic grasp of our common good. They may honor the fetus but their contempt for family love and wellbeing is a source of evil.
20
"You can't be pro-life and against immigrant children."
Terrible argument to hand to the right wing Christians. They counter with;
'In that case if you are pro-abortion and you can't be for immigrant children'.
I didn't say it would be logical, but that's the binary world they live in.
It's analogous to the 'snail darter' or 'snowy owl' arguments that environmentalists used to save the redwood forests of the PNW; Once the snail darter was either saved or extinct the reason to save the forests would be gone.
2
We aren't talking theory here. These are real human beings. They are here now in detention camps without parents. This is a terrible to do to children. Arguments can be made: binary or logical, but the bottom line is that this is happening to real children now in real time. Are we as a nation so cruel that we can set this aside as a theoretical discussion?
14
Reducing abortion is simple.
Reduce unwanted pregnancies.
Give everyone sex education and birth control.
But the right doesn't want to fix the problem.
They want to fight and divide and get votes.
Then they cut taxes for the wealthy to be paid for by us and including the people who voted for the right.
82
Though I was raised Catholic it is not often I find harmony with the dogma, however I must say the Catholic Church has always been consistent about the definition of life. The Catholic Church makes no distinction between which life is or is not worthy. It is this consistency and our current Pope that almost makes me want to rejoin the Church. That will never happen, there are too many points of contention related to the autonomy of women.
What I don’t understand are the holyrollers - the uber-religious who in reality are anything but - who are oh so religious on Sunday or whatever their sabbath day is but the rest of the week their actions are anything but religious or God fearing.
I do not understand this country under Trump. I remember when I lived abroad thinking how wonderful and inclusive my America was. I remember the pride I felt when I said I’m American. I no longer feel that way.
I no longer recognize this America under Trump. We are a fallen country. Instead of embracing the the Statue of Liberty inscription,
“Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!”
we have become a nation that separates parents and children. A nation that rejects those seeking a better life. A nation that places children in the equivalent of gulags. A nation I am no longer proud of.
30
"That will never happen, there are too many points of contention related to the autonomy of women."
Come home. Most of us around here feel like that, too. No reason to ditch the rest of us.
3
Brian,
It’s been a long time. Thanks for the invite but I don’t have a home there, not unless something changes drastically. It’s not just the attitude towards women but the rank hypocrisy I witnessed. I have no tolerance for those who quote scripture but don’t live it. I’d rather be in the company of ethical humanitarian atheists and agnostics than sanctimonious Christians.
5
Trump is trying to "bargain" with the Democrats in Congress: "I'll end family separations (and maybe DACA too) in exchange for my Wall".
25
And Trump is a liar so what do you gain by bargain with a liar - nothing
1
I am pro-choice. Can I be against any immigration that is not to protect people from severe racial or religious discrimination?
2
If the Pro-Life movement doesn’t immediately take this to heart and do everything they can to restore the most basic family unit of parents and children, they cannot expect anyone to take their insistence on the sanctity of life, any life seriously, ever again.
What is going on at our southern border is not the exercise of some theory, this is policy in action. These are real living breathing human children who are here right now and have real parents! And these children are absolutely innocent of any crime at all. They need all the things that all children need, that your own children need. How, by any stretch of the imagination, there is or can be anything reasonable, lawful, rational, god fearing about taking children away from their parents is beyond me. How can this be happening in this country? How is it not criminal?
Finally, Mrs. Trump, you say that you are working for the good of children. How about these children? Do they deserve less than other children because they are immigrants? You yourself are a mother and an immigrant. Surely you have compassion for these kids?
23
Historian Daniel Williams finds that the early pro-life movement had a large progressive wing that drew from the civil rights tradition and from the economic tradition that informed the New Deal and the Great Society. In their minds, abortion was a human rights issue closely tied to other human rights and civil rights causes, care for the poor, opposition to war, etc. This progressive faction argued that “pro-life” abortion law had to be accompanied with “pro-life” economic, food, and medical support for poor mothers and children and with a living wage.
After Roe, fundamentalists increasingly joined the pro-life movement and pushed its general character far right, tying it to opposition to the sexual revolution, opposition to feminism, and opposition to gay rights, among other issues.
The right-wingers were disproportionately fundamentalists and male, while the progressive pro-lifers were disproportionately Catholic and included many women among their senior leadership. The right wing side won out in the late 1970s and early 1980s as they effectively took over the Republican Party and the Democratic Party gradually went fully “pro-choice.”
Decent, well-intentioned, deeply intelligence people can disagree about a range of “life” issues, but it does seem that the progressive pro-lifers were far more intellectually consistent than the dominant movement today. We all might do well to have more of them around to contribute to the dialogue.
17
Pro-life? For far too many people who claim to be pro-life, it is simply a position of pro-birth. If the country, specifically, pro-life community cared about children, we'd have programs that funded immunization programs and basic nutrition programs without the constant budget battles over such things.
29
The moral equivalency on this line of thinking is strained. The proper way to analyze: a country has rule of law or rule of chaos. The choices are not exactly well-articulated in this opinion piece.
7
I have to point out that slavery was once law, segregation was once law and the disenfranchisement of women was once law. Those laws were only changed through action and resistance.
63
As I recall, Germany also once had laws that led to people being put into camps. There are at least 11 million who probably would have preferred rule of chaos.
18
Yes good point— we have made laws that at times we later realize they were abhorrent. It was lawful to keep slaves. It was lawful to keep women from voting. It was lawful to work children all day 7 days per week.
The United States has been wrong many times.
What country in the world at this time takes children and infants from their parents? What have we come to? And who in the world thinks that keeping children confined is safe? This type of situation invites trauma and abuse. Is this another moment that we will someday be too embarrassed to talk about?
4
One can be independent, pro-life, pro choice and pro legal immigration, against exploitation of illegals, against illegals entering in hazardous conditions, against sanctuary in the USA for illegal criminals, pro population control with a one child policy.
Immigrants can only be legal residents. Those entering illegally or residing without legal documents are either undocumented residents or illegal residents. Trump was elected to be bold and decisive in once and for all giving USA, a clean slate of legal residents (Citizens, permanent residents and those with valid visas) or those with amnesty. It is sad that children are separated from their biological parents. It is sad when parents divorce and leave children a choice to live with one of the parent. Whose fault is it when parents don't think of how their their actions affect their children?
It is not the responsibility of the state unless it is a nanny state or Nancy state to ensure the well being of their own children. What happens in an unfortunate situation in this country when both parents of minor children are no more? The govt takes over the care of the children, take away all the money that the parents may have set aside and assign the children for adoption with no guarantee that the child will be cared for optimally and not abused.
Why are there millions of children in unfair limbo because their parents enter the USA illegally? Who is to blame for what happened before Trump took over and congress did nothing?
8
Why are there immigration problems?
Because the business community did/does not want the situation to change. If there were severe penalties for those who encourage and entice undocumented workers to enter the U.S. they would hire them and they would not come.
If Americans pushed legislation to throw anyone employing improperly documented workers in prison for a few years (especially holding the CEO's personally responsible), people would not come.
7
The first statement is the the problem: it’s not ‘why are there immigration problems? ‘ but ‘Are there immigration problems ?’ This has been much ado about nothing for twenty years, we are not inundated and a more reasoned response allows for ethical treatment of all.
7
Very good point mrfreeze6. Persons illegally entering the USA are cheap labor or slaves for those who employ them and therefore what you suggest to discourage the entry of persons illegally is a good one but remember unemployment is at the lowest level and there are many Americans who are troublesome workers that American employers do not want to hire because they are addicted to drugs. So it is an unfortunate complex situation.
I'm pro-choice, pro-environment and anti-overpopulation. Endlessly flooding the United States with unauthorized foreigners takes away my choice, compromises my local environment and certainly makes my cities, town, roads, beaches and parks more and more crowded.
10
With the thousands who have been swept up in ICE purges and already deported I'm wondering if in a metro area of 17 million you now have more choices and whether your cities, roads, parks, beaches are less crowded? Realistically would you even notice? Unless propagation of the species is halted in So Calif. I have a feeling it is only going to get more crowded.
8
@Vincent Tagliano - it's time for you to move to the middle of the country. Lots of space for you there, if you're feeling a bit crowded. You have a typical NIMBY attitude.
3
Pro-life groups are all about anti-abortion and politics. Once that baby is born they'll do whatever they can to not protect it and it's parents, especially if it's poor and non-white.
53
I don't think the pro-lifers are against immigrant children. Illegal entrants though they may be against. Or as is written in this article 'undocumented'. As if they left their i.d.s or credentials on top of the kitchen table at home.
10
When an American parent commits a crime, his/her children do not accompany him/her to jail. Such is the case with adult illegal aliens; they are detained and provision is made for care of their children. Also, in some cases it is necessary to determine whether youngsters are actually the children of those claiming to be their parents (one of many forms of gaming the system).
The US has immigration laws that allow foreigners to seek entry and citizenship. Those who do not follow these laws and procedures are in this country illegally (i.e., lawbreakers) and should be detained and deported, though allowed to seek legal entry and citizenship after they return to their home countries.
The US cannot afford to support its own citizens: the poor, the ill, elderly, disabled, veterans, et al. It is therefore utterly impossible for US taxpayers to support the millions of people from other countries who would like to come to the US. That is why there are laws limiting the numbers of immigrants allowed into this country each year.
The cruelty lies not in detaining and deporting illegal aliens, or forcing those who wish to enter the US to wait for processing. What is cruel, unethical and probably illegal is teaching foreigners how to game the system to enter the US by falsely claiming asylum, persecution, abuse, etc.
By the way, the children are being cared for in very good conditions, not in "cages" as shown in photos from the Obama era.
10
Mon Ray,
Don’t fool yourself, the methods ICE use today are no different than they ever were. What is different is the vast number of children being taken and warehoused by this administration. Now Trump proposes erecting tent cities in hot remote areas of Texas. It is inhuman. It is abhorrent. Trump embraces a murderous dictator yet sentences children who had no choice in being brought here to suffer. It’s not just teens who somewhat comprehend what is happening but also infants and toddlers who will be forever psychologically damaged by these cruel policies.
125
Excuse please but the cages are still in use according to journalists who have been to the border.
Regardless there is NO excuse for treating parents and children like this. None.
This is a human rights violation.
Period.
6
Curious @Mon Ray, how have you been hurt by the people described in this article?
3
These organizations are mislabeled ‘pro-life.’ They should be termed ‘pro-birth’. Once a woman gives birth (whether that path is the woman’s choice or not), as long as the child does not enter into a same sex marriage, they are finished with that individual. They are not concerned about the child’s health, , education or future. So call them what they are!
31
"You Can't Be Pro-Life and Against Immigrant Children".
Yes, you can! The Republican Party claims to be pro-life, pro-family but they only care about children BEFORE they are born. They don't want to provide healthcare, food, housing, education or anything else once they are born.
33
Oddly enough, providing ‘healthcare, food, housing, education or anything else once they are born’ is the responsibility of the parent, not the state.
3
Not if you've forced a woman to have a child she didn't want EGD. If you want to make that the law, then you've got some responsibility too.
13
Jacquie, and everyone else who thinks Republicans care about children before they are born: what evidence do you have for that? Because they say so? Republicans don't care about children at any stage of development unless they can use their potential lives to oppress women. Many women, who carry those allegedly precious pregnancies, live in poverty, have no healthcare, eat from our poisoned overly processed food supply, earn 80% of what men earn, are discriminated against regularly in the workplace and are assaulted every minute in this country, both at home and on the streets. Republicans are doing NOTHING about any of these situations. Women's health and living conditions directly affect the well-being of any children they may choose to carry.
Do you still think Republicans care about fetuses?
5
You can be pro-life and against immigrant children because they are two different subjects.
16
How are you able to so easily compartmentalize your heart?
Your statement proves the conservative position of being pro-life ends at birth. Once the fetus has exited a woman and her birth canal it becomes a burden.
The true pro-life postition protects ALL living children regardless of their country of origin.
9
Unfortunately, Sarah, they are not two different things: Once a child is born into this world it is not up to the republicans (or any other hostile, corrupt entity) to separate that child from its parents, and expose that child to severe mental anguish, and psychological repercussions due to ripping it from its parent(s). If you actively try to cause harm to children, or to anyone for that matter, because of your political, social, and/or economic beliefs...as well as due to your "religion," (which is used by the republicans as an excuse for everything rotten that they do) then what you ARE is not pro-life. What you are is a FASCIST/NAZI. It takes just a tad of critical thinking to understand that pro-life and pro-immigrant children are the SAME THINGS. Maybe a basic Logic course would help as well. I take it from your comment that YOU are AGAINST immigrant children?
6
No they’re not!
4
The pro-life movement's support for the most anti-life president we have ever seen is staggeringly bewildering. Aside from promoting the life of a fetus, there is no other category of life on the planet that the president stands behind.
38
These " pro Life " people are just showing their true colors. Their fetus worshipping is a very convenient excuse for controlling Women. ALL women. It's all about power and collecting massive amounts of money to support their " cause ", and their lifestyles. Seriously.
126
I am a pro life woman and we do not make one red cent for our pro life volunteer work. Any money that is collected from donations is directed towards the women and babies who are helped by the movement. It does take money to run a home for these women and babies in need. We never discourage donations and are grateful when people contribute. We have found people to be very generous and supportive of our work.
Your statement that we control women and their bodies is ridiculous. We are thinking of the life in the womb and the mother who really does want to have her baby. We are truly concerned for both mother and child and that is obvious to these women. This is why they decide to give birth because someone cared.
I wanted to correct your misconceptions about pro life volunteers. We do this work because we love babies and the mothers who have them and want them to know they are never alone. This is why we spend countless hours doing this very important work. It is very fulfilling when a woman will return and thank us for our care and concern. It makes it all worthwhile.
2
they're not pro-life, they're for forced birth as part of the imposition of religion into secular law. "pro-life" is and always has been a religious movement with little pretense of protecting women's health or anything else.
160
Trump's lie about this is so outrageous that it requires a new analysis.
I'm thinking that he sees lying, and getting away with it, as an assertion of his dominance.
His supporters, meanwhile, somehow think he's lying to "them" (e.g. Democrats), but not "us" (right wing Republicans).
The problem gets worse with each passing day.
50
He blames the Democrats because, as he said about the N. Korea summit this week, if he's wrong about Kim's cooperation, he'll find someone else to blame.
We already know he never thinks he has to apologize for anything; we can see now that nothing is ever his fault. How long will it take him to blame this policy on Hillary?
4
"This presents a real threat to the broader movement’s capacity to be taken seriously by young people and people of color."
That ship has long since sailed. I refer to the "movement" as anti-choice, but Vanessa Hall's appellation of "forced birth" works equally.
22
Can't they? From what I've seen, Trump enablers will swallow anything. Pro-life/anti-children? No problem. Come on, they're already doing that. The instant that foetus is out of the womb, it's left without education, without healthcare, and sometimes without food.
No paradox too great for that lot.
82
How could the US end up like this? I see pictures of those children and feel sick imagining what they are going through. Trump and Sessions have created a new era for nightmares.
77
Dr Camosy conflates issues but he confuses no one (well.... perhaps he confuses himself).
Separating would-be-immigrant children from their would-be-immigrant parents, for no other reason than the act of immigration is illegal, is both barbaric and immoral by any measure. More than immoral, it marks the perpetrators as evil people.
As David Brooks is so often reminded, you cannot be both a good and moral person and a Republican at the same time - not with the current, hideous values of the Republican Party Try to explain relativistic Personalism to a four year old that you are separating from their mother.
Further, this barbaric act has nothing to do with the issue of abortion. The arguments for and against abortion fail or succeed on their own. Just as the health care, education, and love we provide those born into this world must be judged on its own.
Vote in November and vote Democrat.
38
I am a pro-life Catholic woman who abhors abortion and believes marriage is between one man and one woman. I am involved in the pro-life movement and take it very seriously. I love the mothers and babies and feel they should have our full support in every way possible. We should encourage life.
I am all for immigrant children being admitted into our country as they have a right to become American citizens just like anyone else. The only difference I have with liberals is that I feel they should come here legally with their parents and not illegally cross over our borders. They our flaunting our laws and disregarding our rules. If we start accepting every single family with and without children who disregard our immigration laws, we will be overwhelmed by people breaking our immigration policy. We will then have a severe illegal immigration problem that will never be fixed and will just continue. More illegal families will continue to come if they know they can come without repercussions. What a disaster we will have on our hands.
This is very unfair to those immigrants who fill out the necessary legal papers and obey our laws. They wait in line as they are supposed to do. The illegal immigrants should go back to their home countries and apply the legal way. Then they will be very welcomed into our country.
Not accepting illegal immigrants has nothing to do with not being pro life. I do not see any connection whatsoever. This is an unfair statement.
10
Who is talking about accepting every immigrant with wide open arms? Many people on the left, myself included, believe in legal immigration. We just don't believe that children should be separated from their parents and placed in cages for this relatively harmless action of their parents. And I myself have never understood why it is that we punish the people, who are not our citizens, coming into our country and not the very legal American corporations who continue to benefit from illegally employing these people.
23
My understanding is that children are being separated from their mothers who have simply come to the entry point to seek asylum. I believe that is because getting asylum takes a very long time to get through the court process and become deemed eligible for asylum
Jesus said, "Let the children come to me."
Jesus said, "Gentile or Jew, servant or free, all are one in the Lord."
Jesus said, "Whatsoever you do to the least of my brothers, that you do unto Me. When I was thirsty, you gave me drink. When I was hungry, you gave me food. When I was imprisoned, you visited me. When I was homeless, you gave me rest."
Jesus told the Parable of the Good Samaritan, the story of how the pious walked by, the government official walked by, but the foreigner did not. The foreigner was more righteous than those who flaunted their piety for all to see, but did not commit pious actions.
Jesus at the temple told the story of the Pharisee who tithed and gave loud prayers, but donated what he could spare and lived comfortably. Truly, He said, the widow who gave all she had was the most righteous, and God would take care of her, because she gave all she had, not all she had to spare.
When Jesus came to Jerusalem, who did He eat with? Did He eat with the Pharisee, the Roman, the judge? No, He ate with the foreigner, the disabled, the poor, the thief, the disenfranchised. Jesus is on their side.
When asked, Jesus said, "Give unto Caesar that which is Caesar's. But give unto God that which is God's." Do not confuse the two, the government is Caesar, and doesn't replace Jesus's teachings.
I pray for the children. I will pray for you, too. I will pray for your country. Good luck to you all.
20
Ivanka Trump is reputed to be an excellent business woman and
professional manager as well as a devoted mother, so I
-- for one -- would feel greatly reassured if she would now assume personal responsibility over her father's new camps for migrant children which of late have been heavily subjected to a great deal of legitimate criticism.
I believe these children's mothers would gladly welcome this change, especially if it could be accompanied by the offer of a free handbag, summer dress, summer hat and matching shoes for each of them. And perhaps also one item of simple jewelry. All bearing the famous Ivanka trademark -- the ones recently approved by China -- and all to be paid for through voluntary public contributions to one of Ivanka’s many fine charities.
There’s no reason why a humane program for migrant children can’t also be a highly profitable business.
What say you, Mr. President?
24
A. Stanton (You are great, by the way...always on the mark)...Do we really think that these poor mothers would like ivanka's sweat-shop clothing and accessories...whose designs ivanka rips off from other designers, and then she finds the cheapest places on earth to have those things made, (so like her daddy) so she can harm and disenfranchise the workers who slave to make her crummy goods for pennies a day? Anyway: ivanka would not give away one purse, one dress, one pair of shoes...if she thought she would lose 15 cents. AND: Ivanka is right now at her sumptuous home, cuddling her children, as her father authorizes more immigrant children to be ripped away from their parents. What was it Mel Brooks once said? Oh, yes: "It's good to be da King!"
4
Ivanka Trump is not a good business person. She follow the ‘Hwu do you end up with a half billion dollar business? “ model. Start with a billion dollar business ...
4
ivanka, and the entire trump family, (not Tiffany or Barron) should be locked up, with a huge photo of that little boy, to the left of your screen, plastered onto their cell wall. That darling, little boy, who looks to be about 5 years old, whose daddy is being arrested, and the little boy, ripped away from his daddy, to be incarcerated somewhere IN THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA! People! Again I say: IN THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA!!!!! Can you believe this????? Ivanka, and her brothers should realize that simply by an accident of birth, they, and their children are considered AMERICANS, while that sweet little boy, to the left of your screen, is considered, (BY their FATHER) an immigrant, FROM A SH**HOLE COUNRY! Some people do not deserve to EVER have GOD have mercy on their rotten, putrid, cruel, entitled, elitist souls.
3
Sadly, as often seems to be the case, so-called "pro-life" groups focus narrowly on the fetus, but once that baby is born they turn away focusing on the next pregnancy and "saving" the next fetus. Fetuses ("pre-born humans" or whatever other words the anti-choice folks prefer) grow into children who have needs, make demands, and have rights. It is not "pro-life" to save the baby, then toss the child aside - or at least toss him/her aside if parents are poor or dark skinned or speak a language other than English. If they do not forcefully speak for children and their rights, they have no integrity.
41
First being against illegal immigration is not being against these children. I expect them to be treated well as long as they cooperate. I also want them and their parents to be processed quickly, nothing over one week for new arrivals and the backlog eliminated in say six months. This will require a quick process with very strict and narrow rules. You don't get to say unless the government in your country is likely to kill or otherwise hurt you. Most of these places don't have a government like that, so they are deported immediately.
6
You expect children to be well treated "as long as they cooperate." What world do you live in that you are actually agreeing to treat children well conditionally?
15
rms, vulcanalex lives in Trump's America. Say Mama...Make America Mean Again.
Oh for God's sake! Do you think an 18 month old can "cooperate?????" You expect them to be "treated well, as long as they COOPERATE." Well, you try explaining that to a howling 6 month old, a howling 3 year old, a howling 5 year old...Good God! I am aghast at such cruelty and illogic.
10
The trump base - conservative, christian, pro-life - is not pro-life. It is forced birth. There is a difference. The base - conservative Christians - is also tribal in nature. As such there is a belief that God is on their side, and one side implies other sides; sides that their invisible sky friend sees as lesser, and "other." Many of them refuse to recognize the humanity of the children - much less their parents - being taken into federal custody (Jade Helm?) at the border. Their president has even referred to the asylum seekers "animals." Now, with his anti-immigration policies, Trump is validating the beliefs of his base that they are somehow better, more favored by god, than the 'hoards' of migrants that make them feel so threatened. Forced birth insures that there will always be enough 'others' to suit their needs.
250
" Forced birth insures that there will always be enough 'others' to suit their needs. "
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Indeed, Vanessa! And when there are no more brown immigrants in the U.S., the entitled, elitist, racist republicans can compel those 'others' to do the work that the brown immigrants used to do! And don't think we will not live to see that day...or our children and grandchildren will not live to see that day, UNLESS WE GET RID OF THIS NEST OF VIPERS; THIS LAIR OF FASCISTS! If they can FORCE women to bear unwanted children, and FORCE children to be born...then they can also FORCE those 'others' into slavery when they have nothing. If the republicans make sure that there is no health care, no food, no affordable housing, no decent education...for poor people...just what choice will those poor 'others' have????? They will become the worker class (drones, slaves) for the republican oligarchs! This REALLY is THE HANDMAID'S TALE come to life! Actually it is a combination of SOYLENT GREEN and THE HANDMAID'S TALE...
2
@Vanessa Hall
Please stop speaking for someone who holds views that differ from yours.
It is breezy, assumptive, and untrue.
Hold your beliefs, and respect those who differ from you.
That's called freedom of expression, and it's what the country was founded to uphold.
You know nothing about me. You are a political sound-bite. And very tribal, ironically.
1
The latest silly argument, that people trying to protect the dignity of a human life are trying to force women to give birth. A woman has complete control over whether she decides to get pregnant, and if she doesn't want to have a child she should take the steps to prevent it. Birth control is cheap, and of course abstinence is 100% effective.
1
To some people, anything less than completely open borders is unacceptable, never mind that many of the teenagers arrive alone without their parents anyway, never mind that they are receiving free healthcare if required, shelter, and 3 square meals a day.
The immigration advocates want it all, open borders and financial support for all of the migrants; for some recipients, it would be lifelong support. Just look at Europe's complete mess. The entire world cannot possibly migrate to the US or Europe.
Instead of advocating for mass migration to the US, advocates should help make these migrant exporting countries more liveable so that their citizens have opportunities at home, so that they will not feel that their only option is to migrate to the US or to Europe.
15
wow, terrible, free health care, shelter and food. Only thing they're missing is education. These are human rights in my book.
8
Repat, please!
Doctors, nurses, teachers, farmers, fishermen, manufacturers, builders, truck drivers, etc needed to support those "free" ideals of yours all want to paid for their efforts.
They will gladly accept your money - can you afford this?
3
And where have you immigrated to?
The "pro-life" folks are (generally) against government (unless it is a program or service they happen to like/use). Hence the arguments that begin and end "Not with MY tax dollars." Details such as the Hyde Amendment are lost on them.
They are all for the unborn.
The born? Not so much.
43
That's because once a child exits the womb, he or she is considered the property of the mother (alone if no father is identified and confirmed by DNA) and therefore the responsibility of the mother to keep alive, safe and healthy for 18 years. When the child was still in the womb, these activists considered the potential child the property of "society" or their god, not the pregnant woman, and claimed for themselves the moral responsibility to protect it until separation at birth. Even though Jesus teaches that we are our brothers' keepers, they consider their moral responsibility to the child ends when the mother's legal responsibility begins, at the birth. Besides, they know that the government will step in and take care of any child that is neglected, endangered, hungry or homeless, even though they probably vote for politicians who want to cut social programs.
4
There is a problem when a candidate is supported simply because of a single position. The churches, even the Catholic Church, promoted candidate Trump solely because of his position on abortion. Little care was given to his other positions, many of them most unchristian. Little care was given to his behavior during the campaign, which was decidedly unchristian. So this is what you reap, an unholy alliance with the pro-life movement. The churches gave power to this movement. And while churches are now speaking out against our government’s ruthless decision to separate children and parents at our border, the single-minded, pro-life movement is silent. This is what can happen when all issues are viewed through the narrowest of lenses.
138
"The churches, even the Catholic Church, promoted candidate Trump"
Simply not true
2
Mr. Camosy pretends that "pro-life" was ever anything more than an euphemism for "anti-abortion" or "anti-choice." Pro-life groups' support of the President's agenda includes far more anti-childr, anti-life policies than the unchristian, inhuman immigration policies now being pursued. Republican policies threaten aid to dependent children, free school lunches, Head Start funding, safe schools, and and the very notion of free public education. To extend the metaphor, pro-life groups aren't just driving the car to the abortion clinic, they're paying for the gas, leasing the car, and kidnapping the pregnant women.
63
And is pro-choice anything more than a euphemism for pro-abortion?
1
It has confounded me for years how pro life advocates seemingly abandon children once they are born. Separating chikdren from their mothers is cruel and traumatic. So is eliminating healthcare programs for children or decreasing funding for public education. If such groups and individuals are to retaincredibikity, tgey must go all in to protect chikdren. All children.
111
Accepting, silently or otherwise, the removal of very young children from parents with no information as to their location or well-being is mental torture. It will never be a deterrent - the proffered explanation - because even this horrific treatment is preferable to the conditions they left.
Some conservative leaders have stepped forward to denounce the practice and they are his base. Remove that support and this inhumanity will stop immediately. Actions are most definitely louder than words; it's time for action from this activist group.
32
The vast majority of people who bypass many South and Latin American countries to arrive at the US border do not qualify for asylum under the laws of this country. They simply aren’t being persecuted because of their race, religion, nationality, political opinion or membership in a social group. They know this from the moment they leave their home country, but are encouraged by a cottage industry of “immigration activists” and lawyers, who advise them of the best things to say to secure a reasonable fear interview. Once they’ve been released, they never show up for the interview and join the more than 11 million illegal immigrants in the US, preferably in a sanctuary city. This needs to stop.
20
This comment is full of vitriol and devoid of evidence. You must think it is ok to punish children so you can win your ideological immigration argument.
5
Well said Don L from San Francisco.
1
These "pro lifers" are against abortion but are not interested in maternal care, funded child care, early education, meals for school kids, vaccinations, and everything to do with raising children. None of this makes senses to me. If you don't want to care for them and their mothers, best they support abortion. In a sense, this is what they are doing but taking away the right to an abortion. Talk about messed up thinking.
203
Pro-life is anti-woman, full stop.
I wish these hypocrites would stop pretending.
They are also the same people who refuse to help the poor, the elderly and the sick let alone work to save our environment.
Phooey.
3
It's not messed-up thinking; it is by design. Making life more difficult for poor women prevents them from competing effectively in the job market. We don't have a society in which everyone can make the most of themselves because that threatens the status quo. The privileged want to keep the goodies for themselves, so they make no effort to level the playing field. The suffering this produces, and the long-term harm to our society, is unimportant. I expect nothing from the anti-choice crowd particularly where damage to children is concerned. Living children simply do not matter to the people making these decisions.
1
It is so encouraging to read it spelled out that being pro-life is about more than abortion.
I attended a Catholic high school where we took "right to life" instruction. The teachings were about, yes, abortion, but also the death penalty, war, hunger, homelessness and more. The emphasis is that none of these right to life situations weighed more than the next. Additionally, when California's punitive Proposition 187 was in the news, the nuns said that any such measure was punishing a child for the sins of a parent, which was always wrong. I have no doubt how horrified those Sisters are now at the treatment of immigrant families.
It is, of course, no more morally valid for a practicing Christian or vocal abortion opponent to oppose the separation practice than for anyone else to speak up; but the clout they hold with this administration makes it that much more important for them to do so. Trump should not be allowed to hide behind them at his convenience.
43
I have long wondered why pro-life candidates want to limit access to affordable health care (especially care for women), shrink the social safety net, and shrink programs that fight hunger. I wonder why pro-life proponents ignore statistics that show abortion numbers drop when birth control is available and affordable.
The crisis at the border is a long-brewing result of our inability to embrace all of life. What about guns? What about the environment? What about religious intolerance? What about racial inequality? What about income inequality? Do we really believe that all life is sacred?
192
Most of the things you think are issues don't matter to me. Income inequality when earned is a good thing. Guns are protected (somewhat) by the constitution. Racial inequality is vastly smaller than in the past and mostly continues to be reduced by work and jobs. Religious intolerance is mostly arrogant atheists being intolerant of the religious. And believing all life is sacred (I sure don't) is religion not government. As an example I don't think the life of a mass murderer is sacred, it needs to be as short as possible.
4
vulcanalex, I think you have made your positions and thoughts - if they can be called 'thoughts'- very clear over the past year.
Why not rest on your laurels and your average 27 recommends?
We know as soon as we see your name that what we think doesn't matter to you, as you say.
Sadly, what you say doesn't matter to most people either.
So, what do you say? Give us all a rest.
Policies and the practices surrounding them should be judged on their merits and faults and that always involves comparing pros and cons. It often involves making moral assessments and deciding which goods are more important than other ones.
Policies and practices should not be judged based on the personalities who approve of or deride them. That is weak thinking. That is the habit of the lazy and of the inflamed partisan mind.
So...Trump. So what. I still awake in dismay that he is our president. But I don't invoke his name when discussing policy.
As for this policy, much of my view of it depends very much on the practices. I do not believe that adults should use children as ploys to enter a country illegally. But neither should children be separated from parents by large distances and time. Parents should retain regular access to meaningful time with their children rather than seeing them pulled away quickly and for a long time. That is unnecessarily traumatic.
As a side note: Unfortunately, children are regularly separated from parents who break the country's laws, even if the parent is not violent or neglectful of the children. A father who commits a burglary may be separated from his children for years in a far-off prison. It is hard to accept special treatment in this matter for non-citizens who break our laws. Instead, we also need to improve the way we treat families of citizens who break our laws, so their children's suffering is reduced too.
21
Parents and children may be separated when a parent is convicted of a crime, but the children are not also incarcerated. In addition, conviction follows a judicial process that takes a period of time, allowing families to make arrangements for themselves. Visits and other social services endeavor to maintain family ties, even when those ties are stretched by incarceration. This punitive policy directed towards these families does not resemble what happens to families separated by incarceration, although that is also very harsh.
59
tew: You are conveniently ignoring the fact that the parents with children are fleeing dangerous circumstances and applying for AMNESTY. There's legal process for that, and it doesn't involve separating children from parents or imprisoning parents and putting minor children in camps.
38
I sincerely doubt that "adults...use children as ploys to enter a country illegally". These adults are bringing their entire family across the border because they are fleeing intolerable conditions in their country of origin and seeking a better life for them in this country. Our country has sunk to a low beyond the level of internment of Japanese-American families during WW2. At least in that instance families were not broken up. We are only a few small steps away from a concentration camp mentality.
1
Really, when I think about it - the only person who is probably consistent with all his views on life is the Pope. No to anything that prevents or stops human life, no to the death penalty, no to war, no to poverty, even to climate change! I don't agree with the Pope's position on all of these - but I have to credit him for the consistency of the message. Meanwhile, I have found the "pro-life" groups in the U.S. to be singularly focused on the fetus - with little regard for things like child welfare or the financial support of single women who opt for giving birth. Their position on immigrant children is yet another example how narrowly they support children and families. "Pro-life" is really a misnomer.
354
"the only person who is probably consistent with all his views on life is the Pope"
Let's not forget about Dan Berrigan sj, so quickly.
5
Oh, those wiley Jesuits.
For those who don’t know, a little background on Daniel Berrigan and his brother.
www.nytimes.com/2016/05/01/nyregion/daniel-j-berrigan-defiant-priest-who...
"Pro-fetus and anti-women's rights" is more like it.
3
"Risk" being tied to them? Christian groups ARE tied to the Trump Administration and their heinous policies. As Joan Chittister remarked "I do not believe that just because you're opposed to abortion, that that makes you pro-life. In fact, I think in many cases, your morality is deeply lacking if all you want is a child born but not a child fed, not a child educated, not a child housed. And why would I think that you don't? Because you don't want any tax money to go there. That's not pro-life. That's pro-birth. We need a much broader conversation on what the morality of pro-life is."
Did I miss the "Pro-life" marches on Washington to change laws concerning gun-control? to end the death penalty? (in Nebraska we have a "Catholic" governor who with his family wealth financed the return of the death penalty to the state) I must have been asleep the weekends the Pro-lifers marched in Washington for universal child care, for food programs to feed hungry children, for good schools in poor neighborhoods.
While I'm quite sure there are those who identify as pro-life who do care about these issues, their movement (that speaks for them) does not.
590
Pro-life has been equated with opposition to abortion for a long time, and the only approach Republicans and their supporters have offered to protect life prior to birth is to enact legislation criminalizing abortion.
Safety net legislation that could protect women considering abortion and their potential offsprings from being impoverished is not an approach embraced by the Republicans and their supporters for combatting abortion.
Criminalizing abortion will not end the practice of abortion, just as criminalizing trafficking in illegal drugs has not ended the drug trade and the use of these drugs.
I do not see a change coming until an understanding of being pro-life is expanded beyond simply being a supporter of criminalizing abortion.
Being pro-life should include support of health care for all, a measure that saves and protects life. It would also include all programs that provides adequate shelter and food to the most vulnerable in our communities, and keeps families together, including immigrant families, when they fall upon hard times. In addition, the death penalty and easy access to assault weapons that contribute to the killing of some 30,000 Americans annually need to be included and addressed.
Change can come only when the concept of pro-life is expanded beyond the opposition to abortion, i.e., an opposition that embraces criminalizing it as the only acceptable approach for addressing the issue.
66
That is because the "pro-life" group is not pro-life, but anti-abortion. Once that fetus becomes a real human being, the pro-lifers no longer care to fight for its right to life. Most pro-abortion people I know care deeply about every child that is conceived and/or born. That's why they advocate for abortion when they can see the parent/s aren't going to be able/willing to take are of the child. I am just appalled at the lack of concern for babies that I see among the "pro-lifers!"
559
I've met a number of staunchly "pro-life" people over my life and they have been, by and large, very compassionate. A higher percentage of them have been engaged in charitable activities for various disadvantaged people than others I've met along the way. I can't think of one who has opposed robust school lunch programs and the like.
11
Our neighbors are "pro-life" Christians. They will picket abortion clinics. They don't oppose school lunch programs and the like. But they don't fight for those things either.
1
A breathtakingly fatuous generalization. If you don't know any prolife people who are about the born as well as the unborn, you need to get around a little, visit some homeless shelters, join some peace marches, advocate for healthcare for all.
The flaw in Mr. Camosy's argument is that it presumes that the so-called "pro-life" organizations ever actually had principles that promoted the value, respect and dignity of all human life. I have always seen them for what they are (and now have the incontrovertible proof of it!) In what meaningful ways have any of these anti-choice groups every done anything to promote life? Have they protested the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq? Have they protested the death penalty? Have they lobbied for paid parental leave, government subsidized high quality, affordable day care? Universal pre-K? Any of the government backed programs that all of our enlightened fellow countries have to promote safe, healthy families? NO! They have one mission only - end abortion and force parenthood on people. These people coudn't care less what happens to the "precious unborn" once they are actually born. And so they remain silent. They do not and never did really care.
911
As a recovering white-conservative, raised by dedicated Republicans in a Midwestern town and also having gone to its schools with both black and white people, I understand white-Christian thought processes.
Their with issue abortion as they see it is this: life is created by God, and no one has the right to change that. Per taking care of people after they are born, whatever happens to humans is "God's will", along with personal responsibility and your relationship with Jesus to deal with the cards you've been dealt.
They see people coming to the boarder and attempting to illegally enter as a sin; breaking the law, lying, indirectly stealing from US Citizens, etc. The life of a child of such a law-breaker is in God's hands, for better or worse.
They also see these times as biblical, the latter days unfolding, and massive death and woe is predicted in the bible. The progressive ideals that have overrun Christian ideals are proof to them that these times are upon us. Thus, whatever is happening is explained.
14
They don't care about it while it unborn either, otherwise, they would support healthcare for pregnant women. They don't support health care at all as far as I can tell. Unless of course, you are rich enough to pay for it.
15
So you're going to reject their help with this because they don't have the spotless record on all issues that I assume Dana probably has? No wonder Trump is president and we're living through this. Learn when it's time to come together to stop a tragedy and when it's time to blacklist everybody who isn't like you. And do the former.
1
The pro-life people oppose abortion, but they will not promote sex education or birth control. They care deeply about the tiniest cluster of cells but turn away when confronted with actual children in cells. They fight so hard for the fetus yet smirk as they destroy programs that protect mothers and children at their neediest. The pro-life movement's hypocrisy regarding these immigrant kids is no surprise to most of us, but I still find it stunning.
473
CiaoAMS: You state this hypocrisy of the pro-lifers exceptionally well. And if more people who supported these pro-life hypocrites would clear the cobwebs from their brains for one minute, they, too, would see how reprehensibly stunning in its hypocrisy and cruelty this is. But perhaps I am wrong. Perhaps they are simply incapable, blinded and controlled by their burning desire to dominate women, harm women, disenfranchise women...and punish and hurt, too, the little ones that reside in a pregnant woman's body. If they can FORCE these fetuses to be born, they want to show these children and their mothers that they can take everything from them, if they, these powerful republicans, and pro-lifers simply snap their fingers--Why, they can FORCE them to be born, and then afterwards, they can FORCE them to have nothing, and to be unhappy. No health care. No food. No affordable housing. No decent education. Incredible power over poor women and children. THIS IS WHAT IT IS ABOUT! Since women are the ones who become pregnant, they bear the entire brunt of the "sin" of sex. Men have nothing to do with it. This is how religious nuts see it. Thus women and children will be made to suffer; the sin is all theirs. That is how I interpret the thought processes of a rabid, evangelical, pro-life, racist, misogynist xenophobe, and control-freak...a disturbed individual, all rolled up into one tight, nasty, angry, supercilious, craven, sanctimonious HATER of both women and children.
7
The US has immigration laws that allow foreigners to seek entry and citizenship (same as with all other countries). Those who do not follow US laws and procedures are in this country illegally (i.e., lawbreakers) and should be detained and deported, though allowed to seek legal entry and citizenship after they return to their home countries.
The US cannot afford to support its own citizens: the poor, the ill, elderly, disabled, veterans, et al. It is therefore utterly impossible for US taxpayers to support the millions of people from other countries who would like to come to the US. That is why there are laws limiting the numbers of immigrants allowed into this country each year.
The cruelty lies not in detaining and deporting illegal aliens, or forcing those who wish to enter the US to wait for processing. What is cruel, unethical and probably illegal is teaching foreigners how to game the system to enter the US by falsely claiming asylum, persecution, abuse, etc.
By the way, the children are being cared for in very good conditions, not in "cages" as shown in recent and misleading photos from the Obama era.
25
It is ill informed to think that U.S. citizens alone are paying taxes to support immigrants,legal or illegal. I am a legal immigrant and pay thousands of dollars in taxes every year both state and federal. And there are millions of other immigrants like me who pay taxes into the system. The taxes I pay go into supporting Medicare and Social Security among other benefits.
5
People who are applying for asylum are not "lawbreakers".
It's a convenient excuse for cruelty to assume that those applying for asylum are making false claims in order to "game the system".
And separating children from their parents is unconscionable, no matter how they are being cared for.
7
What makes you think we can't afford to take care of own? With a multi-trillion dollar economy, we certainly can. It's only the self-centered policies of Republicans catering to greed that says we can't - and those who support making more billionaires over the needs of everyone else left behind.
10
Immigration and separating children is a very emotional issue. What is not an emotional issue is that our immigration policy has allowed and empowered illegal immigration to run unchecked for more than 20 plus years.
It may be in the best interest of the citizens and the legislature to create an immigration policy that can be fully enforced. Border security and an immigration policy that is fair and not allowing 10 of millions of people bringing corruption drugs and decent people that are being exploited in there current countries. And please also understand that the people crossing definitely understand how to surcumvent US immigration laws by using there children to help them facilitate there entry into this country. This effort is well orchestrated and only designed to play with the emotions of the US citizens. Please pass an immigration policy that is effective and fair all around and stop playing the emotional card when in essence you are using children to enter the country illegally and fully understand the repercussions.
20
This is actually inaccurate. The Obama administration went after companies and when Trump took office illegal immigration had already been significantly reduced. This is easily verified.
3
We have the highest incarceration rates in the world. We separate those families every day. How is it that illegal immigrant families are more important than the families that are already here?
23
They're not "more" important. Both situations are important. We can address both--at the same time!
34
Comparing someone who is only seeking a better life to a criminal who has committed a crime serious enough to warrant hard time is absurd. People who have broken minor laws and are not seen as a threat to society are usually not incarcerated--they are paroled. Similarly, in the past immigrants were not prosecuted but rather sent back over the border. There is no need to traumatize these children and their parents. It is cruel and vindictive. We have obviously lost our humanity if we can no longer see that.
17
We don't take prisoners' children and put them in a separate prison. They stay with family, or foster families, or are otherwise cared for by adults and go on with their lives. Having a parent in prison is traumatic for children regardless of the circumstances, but this is not in any way an analogous situation.
11
Actually yes you can be pro life and enforcing the immigration laws of this country. The bleeding hearts dig up every possible tear jerking story to pull at peoples heart strings. Fact is the parents drag their kids illegally over the border fully knowing they will be separated. What really should happen is if they are seeking asylum then have them file their application at the consulate in Mexico and let them wait there and not on US soil. If they cross illegally then all members need to be sent packing same day over the border where they crossed and not be allowed to file for asylum or any visa. As for those being separated then it needs to be served as a warning to others who do not want to obey the immigration laws of this country. If they have to be housed in tents then so be it. Its not like they haven't been warned
19
You're right. These kids have no rights. As a nation, we should be tired of taking care of other people's kids. Perhaps we should arrest all the children, too?
After all, that nursing baby made a conscious decision to remain with his mother, right? "It's not like they haven't been warned".
Comments like yours do not really address the inhumanity of what is taking place. This is a simplistic solution to a complex problem that is being perpetrated by an administration that appears to be incapable of complex thought.
4
You do, perhaps, understand that people have been moving for well over a month to get here? They are poor w/out laptops and internet connections to tell them of Jeff Sessions's new policy. They "haven't been warned".
3
It has not been illegal to seek asylum. Nor would they have been warned.
1
The Trump administration has not adopted a policy of separating children from their parents. In 2016 the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals ruled that the Flores V. Reno Settlement pf 1979 applies to accompanied migrant children as well as unaccompanied migrant children. This means the Department of Homeland Security must transfer all migrants children apprehended at the border to the Health and Human Services Department's Refugee Resettlement Program. The Ninth Circuit concluded: “We hold that the Settlement applies to accompanied minors but does not require the release of accompanying parents.” The ruling is not a law but it has the force of law. Migrant children who cross the border with their parents can no longer be held be in custody along with their parents as they were previously. This is the “bad law” to which President Trump refers. However, it a good law. We don’t incarcerate U.S. children when their parents are arrested; why should we incarcerate migrant children whose parents are arrested?
https://cdn.ca9.uscourts.gov/datastore/opinions/2016/07/06/15-56434.pdf
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William, this is a diversion and an untruth. The law has not changed. But this administration has changed how the law is enforced. The Trump White House has initiated the policy of incarcerating the parents and taking the children. According to Mr. Kelly and others, they are doing this in order to punish the families and thereby discourage future arrivals. Many if not most of these families have applied for asylum. We are legally required to consider all applications for asylum.
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Since it hasn't caused this kind of separation of children from their parents previously, it doesn't have to now. Attorney General Sessions has stated that the goal of the policy isn't the Flores ruling but to discourage and punish immigrant families, even those seeking legal asylum from extreme violence. Mr. Trump has stated that he is doing it to try to drive a better bargain with Democrats, which probably means funding his hugely expensive wall. This administration is willing to harm children to get their way.
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The Trump administration has started prosecuting people for crossing the U.S. border illegally because decades of not prosecuting them has not deterred illegal border crossers; it has encouraged illegal border crossers. The Border Patrol estimates it catches about 54 percent of illegal border crossers, a figure the Border Patrol Union says is inflated. The Border Patrol intercepted more than 50,000 in May. This means about 50,000 illegal border crossers eluded the Border Patrol in May. Once word spreads that the United States is prosecuting illegal border crossers, the number of illegal border crossers will decline.
Cultural Marxism at its most specious: "You Can't Be Pro-Life and Against Immigrant Children"
Yes, you can: One is about illegal entry; the other, abortion, a means to an end--permanent.
Now if this were about executing illegal immigrant children, Mr. Camosy might have an argument.
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You do understand all of the outrage here specifically revolves around people coming to the border and legally asking for and being granted asylum right?
https://www.vox.com/2018/6/11/17443198/children-immigrant-families-separ...
They are doing this as a way of deterring requests for asylum, not as a punishment to illegal immigrants.
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Alices Restaurant...we might as well be executing the children. Do you know the psychological effects of separating these children? Irreparable damage is being done to their brains, and bodies. Compounded by being shipped around to other states, to live in who knows what sort of conditions. Treated like animals, kept in cages, fed like stock animals.
Are we absolutely sure every adult these children are coming into contact with is a good and god-fearing one? Have the best interests of the children uppermost in their minds and actions.?
Oh wait, that cant be what they want, as they are involved with separating them from their parents...so that's already been violated.
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You're missing the point. It's that the label of "pro-life" is misleading and hypocritical, not that being anti-abortion and wanting to separate children from families are irreconcilable positions.
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You can't be pro-life and against immigrant children if you really are pro-life.
But the so-called "pro-life" movement showed its hypocrisy on that score long ago.
The author claims that members of these organizations care about supporting pregnant women, their families and children.
I see no evidence of it in the crowds that heartlessly heckle women walking into Planned Parenthood to see their doctors.
I see no evidence of it in the way they callously parade pictures of foetuses on sticks around at raliles and in hearings.
I see no evidence of it when they oppose health care and food stamps and education and other programs to help poor children and families.
I see no evidence of it when they advocate forcing women to stay pregnant, carry pregnancies to term, and give birth, after they have been raped.
So-called "pro-life" organizations will not come to the defense of immigrant children, because they and most of their members are not pro-llife, they are only anti-abortion. They care only about forcing their religious beliefs about abortion on society, and they see Donald Trump as the person to make that happen.
I am ready to be proven wrong. Maybe these organizations will stand up for immigrant children after all.
But I doubt it.
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Perhaps 'pro-life' should be called what it really is. I am pro-life and I am also pro-choice. What most people who describe themselves as pro-life really mean is that they are anti-choice.
What you have described has never occurred from the pro life group in Manhattan in which I am involved. We are quiet, dignified and very well behaved as we stand in quiet vigil outside of Planned Parenthood in New York City. We have been instructed to cause no altercations or disturbances whatsoever and we have complied.
We experienced the rowdy, vulgar, crass and nasty pro abortion folks who harassed us while we were standing across the street from the abortion clinic. It became so bad that the police were called in to keep the peace. After a few months of this, the pro abortion protestors have completely disappeared and no where to be found. I guess they lost interest and never really were that dedicated to their cause. The very last time they did appear the pro life crowd outnumbered the pro abortion folks 3 to 1. It was so encouraging to see we had been victorious. We are still there and strong and each time we appear there is a police escort. We are determined not to give up on this very important issue.
I want to strongly state that the concern we as pro lifers show to the mothers and babies does not end at birth. We are there for them in every way possible. We offer shelter, jobs, job training, anything that will make their lives easier and more pleasant. We made mistakes in the past by not getting more involved but that has all changed. These women know we are serious about assisting them in every way possible and they are grateful.
Most illegal immigrants around the world are fleeing violence in their home countries. Syrians. Central Americans. Africans. Rohinga. The list goes on. What are we doing to either stop that violence or prevent it? To bring economic stability and the fair rule of law to oppressed people? For our sake and theirs?
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I lost my Dad this week. He was very Catholic, from an Irish German immigrant family. Six children, countless grandchild, great grandchildren. I remember when he and my mom were very upset when the parish priest elicited funds to erect an ugly white sculpture to express anti abortion sentiments. ‘Money is better spent to help the women and families’. Happy Fathers Day Dad, love you,
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For years, I have dreamed of the future in which, owing to great progress in transportation and man's affinity to migrate to opportunity, that this world would some day be a homogenous human race of equality among all, who for hundreds of years, inter-mated to produce that equality in humanity free of prejudice and ethnic hatred that has plagued humanity during all of our existence.
Migration is what humans do, always did and always will do, just as we went to the Moon and now plan to migrate to other planets led by the grand visions of human explorers.
Horror has beset me as this reality is seriously threatened by a White Supremacist leader leading a bigoted party and base.
I have not seen the spread of profound hatred and anger so pervasive as now.
Children of desperate hungry parents are being segregated, yes segregated, in a pattern reminiscent of the European nightmare of World War Two.
Do you hate-filled followers of that party leadership really think of yourselves as rightful owners of this nation after your decendance from ancestors without whom you never would have existed had they not migrated freely here?
I am "Shakinspear". I will fight you, not with brute force, but with intelligence using my sharp pointed spear as a pen to put words to print, for now, and for the future.
I will conquer your tyranny with righteousness.
Adding; as written in God's book; "Be not conquered by evil but conquer evil with good". I saw it in a California Church seeking spiritual refuge.
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"Do you hate-filled followers of that party leadership really think of yourselves as rightful owners of this nation after your decendance from ancestors without whom you never would have existed had they not migrated freely here?"
They migrated freely and legally. Would you allow all people to freely migrate right into your apartment, house, basement., attic, living room, back yard, front yard, bedroom? Controlling one's national borders is not a hateful action. Just ask Canada.
What is hateful is Mexico allowing surges at our southern border using children as a pawn in their game of chicken with the US. That's a hateful action.
In terms of inter-mated I know more white Trump supporters who have spouses/partners that are African-American than Hillary supporters.
So they weren't desperate or hungry while they trekked across the whole country of Mexico but didn't stop There? Why? No food in Mexico? These "children" are not "immigrants" they are illegally entering. All "immigration" needs to be done LEGALLY. Period.
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Mr. Camosy kindly acknowledges that some of the people active in right-to-life organizations are, in fact, ethical and even, sometimes, empathetic.
But all “right to life” groups are driven by one unspoken objective:
The objective: make sure that any unmarried woman who dares to have sex and fails to exercise “abstinence” gets punished. Experiences the penalty. Like in the good old days.
(... like those good old days when my great-grandmother in St. Louis died of an illegal back-alley abortion that her husband, the tinsmith, had recommended because they already had one little girl and couldn’t afford another child.)
What about the men involved? These groups don’t care about the men’s sexual adventures. Boys will be boys.
And they don’t care about the fetus once it’s born and becomes a child who requires shelter, education, food, and companionship.
Focus on the Family, mentioned in the column, opposes LGBT rights, same-sex marriage, pre-marital sex, and it disavows the theory of evolution in favor of “creationism.”
When my father died, I, his executor, began receiving fund-raising letters from many Christian organizations sent to “Paul,” redirected to me. These Christian groups consistently attacked Obama. Tagged him as a Muslim who denied Bibles to our good soldiers. And they used warnings and threats to beg for money and more money.
Not a lot of empathy in those letters ...
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NB: Pro-life groups would not conceive of a pregnancy or child as a "punishment" or "penalty."
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80% of the children rescued from Romanian infant orphanages in the 1990's by compassionate western families have not recovered from the sterile touch free environment.
Check out the "maternal deprivation", concept, for young children, significant long term irreversible cognitive, social, emotional difficulties are virtually guaranteed for these infants separated from their mothers.
What is happening, under Republican policy. is causing long term harm to children.
Have these enablers no shame?
John:11;35 "Jesus (would have) wept"
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