Like so many things before this entertainment niche will either fade awaw or give way to other shows featuring beautiful young women confident with their feminity, their bodies, and yes, their sex appeal and the power that comes with all of that. The replacement pageant could be from the American hemisphere, the UK, EU, Asia or really anywhere because every land has beautiful women. If it's in the US they should outlaw plastic surgery enhancement. It should be about women being happy, confident and empowered just the way they are. Poised, composed, fearless and in control are good things to help empower young women everywhere.
This is so blatantly sexist. In the Mr. America pageant, the men are judged solely on their appearance in the skimpiest of swimsuits. There's no talent portion to the show, no formal wear. It's disgraceful that men are being treated with such disrespect.
2
Being honest, there will now be very little reason to watch the show and this action will definitely kill the show.
2
America doesn't need Miss America. It was once an innocent celebration of natural beauty, charm and poise. It became a parade of fake breasts, fake tans, fake personalities, capped teeth, and hair extensions. It needs to die, as no revamping will hold its audience and nobody wants to watch a show where smart and ugly women give a Power Point on their achievements and "ideas." The time is long overdue to kill the pageant and everything that goes with it---including all the twisted pageants for girls and teens that ultimately feed the fire of wanting to be Miss America.
1
A beauty pageant based on beauty? The deuce you say!
When society comments on an actress or politician’s appearance that sends the terrible message that no matter what profession you pursue your physical beauty is always there to be evaluated and criticized. When People magazine takes images of two actresses who wore similar outfits but never consented to be in a beauty contest against each other in a “who wore it best” reader poll that is demeaning. However when a woman volunteers to participate in a beauty pageant that is society celebrating and appreciating what these women view as their exceptional talent. There is nothing wrong with that. The idea that there is never a time when we are allowed to applaud someone’s beauty because any discussion of beauty is inherently demeaning is depressing.
2
Nah. It’s not depressing.
2
I wish they'd also limit the height of shoe heels, which would set a good example!
Women wearing very high heels walk strangely and in addition can damage their feet.
I think that also part of the reason this is being done away with, is that it is a troubling reminder of how shallow we can be as people...
Let's be honest, no matter how much we claim to the contrary, quite often we first judge people by their outward appearance, how attractive they are or not, how they dress etc , before we actually meet them and get to know them on an individual basis as a person. The latter takes time.
Visual queues are part of how we and our brains are wired, as much as we might like to deny it. So yes, guilty as charged, if I see an attractive woman in a swimsuit, I find her...well...attractive!
That’s the sole audience of sweaty obese men losing interest then.
Though I am honestly surprised that this dinosaur continues to drag itself along while begging for the coup de grace. Do the kindly thing.
2
Like taking the elephants out of the circus, this effectively kills the whole ridiculous enterprise. RIP.
4
It is about time they stopped treating women as SEX objects.
1
Riiight...like you, me and others have never done that?!
What about the runways and catwalks of the fashion industry, where women are expected to wear whatever they’re told to wear as they vapidly sidle and slink with a distant gaze?
And New York City is ground zero in the USA, just as Atlantic City was for the Miss America Pageant.
2
Yes, a distant and vacant gaze.
Hooray! It's about time.
It is my understanding that contestants will now be judged in three areas:
A spelling bee contest to determine intellectual development.
A Political Correctness aptitude assessment
Which contestant can design the best device for breaking glass ceilings.
It should be fun to watch. I can't wait.
3
Ms. Carlson stated on GMA that the new Miss America organization will be "Open and transparent," no swim suits, no evening gowns. Is this now a nude show?
I guess Miss America may now look more like Miss Saudi Arabia or Miss Iran.
As empowering as this new phase in Miss America is to some women, it is also dis-empowering to women who chose to compete based on showing off their physique, their fashion, intelligence, and talents as before.
There's enough room for another competition based on the previous rules too with sufficient audience and participants in both. I wonder who's ratings would be better.
What's next, body builder competitions with street clothes on?
5
Good, now just shut the rest of it down already. If they really want to give women scholarships, I'm sure they can do it without making them wear a tight dress.
3
The current moral police will deprive men everywhere of marveling during the swimsuit competition..their moral compass needs calibration.
1
Oh it’s much worse than that.. The current moral police have ruled that employers can dictate what health care their female employees can receive based on their ( the employers’) religious beliefs.
2
"Miss America is also confronting dwindling viewership as people turn away from live televised events."
Do they plan to reverse course through liberal social engineering driven by radical feminists? I highly doubt their male audience tunes in for the talent performances and politically correct answers to questions from liberal judges attempting to use their platform to drive an agenda. Lifestyle and swimsuit was only 10 percent of the final score. Everything else already had far higher priority. One would swear by this reaction it was 90 percent. I predict the end result will be far lower ratings and zero change in societal attitudes. No matter how hard liberal feminists try, they can't change nature and the fact men highly prioritize women's outer appearance. But hey, as long as liberals feel better about themselves that's all that ever counts. Results never do. It's their nature. So be it.
http://missamerica.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/MA18-Scoring-Guide.pdf
5
LOL...under the new changes I give the pagent 5 years and it’ll probably be less, before it dies due to lack of TV interest...
2
We can probably look forward to women wearing veils.
2
Why do we have beauty pageants at all anymore. Should have stopped around the same time we stopped throwing virgins into volcanos to appease the gods.
3
I didn't even know the Miss America pageant was still a thing. Do people still watch this thing?
not anymore......a beauty contest where the metrics used for competition do not include beauty. How Orwellian.
Does anyone even watch this stuff anymore?
Not since I was 14 and it wasn't for the talent portion.
1
Ladies! Ladies! Ladies! You have nothing to fear! Most of us men, especially me, will still objectify you. I promise.
5
Breaking news, Miss America Contest enters the 20th century.
I guess this means that the 2019 Miss America Competition will be a podcast to focus on the Q&A and dispense with the visuals. This will make the Miss Universe Pageant an even bigger success!
3
Carlson has a BA in sociology. That's it. Not even a graduate JD, let alone a Nobel Laureate in physics.
In 1988, Carlson won the title of Miss Minnesota. Next, she won the Miss America title.
Eventually, Carlson got her contract with Fox & Friends. This was purely because of Carlson's outstanding intellectual attributes and her experience as a non-Pulitzer Prize winning TV reporter with CBS and local TV stations. Carlson's physical beauty played no part whatsoever in the desire of Roger Aisles to be on the same floor as Carlson.
Carlson bought entirely into the fake news all-right agenda of Fox, on 10 Jan 2007 attacking Democrat US Senator Kennedy for his opposition to the invasion of Iraq.
Carlson sued Fox for sexual harrassment and won twenty million.
7
Finally! I can't believe it too so long! It has been so long since I have watched it that I didn't even know that the contestants wore bikinis! That's outrageous and insulting.
3
They should be judged on income - like men.
9
As a woman, I completely agree. I have much more control over my income than my breast size, the shape of my face or how thick my hair is.
3
Who are they kidding? I'll believe that they won't judge on appearances when their contestants start looking like the ordinary every day woman that you can randomly pull out of a crowd, not someone that looks like a model.
2
Wonder if this has more to do with the fact that men don't watch these shows anymore with the invention of the internet and all. Ratings have been way down. So it must be time to revamp this in the guise of women empowerment and the Me Too Movement as a last ditch effort to bring in more viewership.
2
‘Miss America and swimsuits have been synonymous since its first contest in 1921 on the Atlantic City boardwalk. But what started as contestants wearing one-piece bathing suits, conservative by today’s standards, became women in revealing bikinis and high heels parading around for a leering television audience.’
The fact of the matter is that Atlantic City at this time was controlled by the Irish American South Jersey mobster Enoch Lewis 'Nucky' Johnson (1883—1968).
In the last part of the nineteenth century and in the first two decades of the twentieth, Atlantic City attracted business men with its mix of alcohol, prostitution and gambling. With the start of Prohibition in 1920, the booze began briefly to dry up. The bathing beauty contest was just one of the many hustles of Johnson and his cronies to keep the punters rolling into Sin City.
Along with professional boxing, prostitution, gambling and drinking dens, behind the scenes the pageants have been run by the Mob (Irish or Sicilian) from the word go.
Trump then got involved. Heard of him? There's no need to speculate on why he was so keen to get involved. He wanted to make sure the dressing rooms were up to scratch. And, of course, what better time to assess this than when the rooms were in full occupancy?
It's entirely fitting that the shadiest and the seediest of American Presidents should have been so intimately connected to these tacky tournaments of tawdriness.
7
Tacky Tournaments of Tawdriness...For the WIN! Great alliteration. Spot on comment.
2
Thanks Trebor — much appreciated!
So what is it now, exactly? It seems that everyone understood it as a beauty contest with a poise component thrown in.
The couple of times I watched it, I found it to be bizarrely disingenuous about it's aims and purposes. What is it that is being evaluated and judged in these women? And why is that a good thing, or not? Are the spheres of evaluation relevant or significant to each other? "Beauty" and Brains? Brains and Performance? "Beauty" and Performance? Niceness? No, it's the swimsuit competition, stupid.
We either admit that's what we are as humans (voyeurs and exhibitionists) or we eliminate it. The hypocrisy has to end. The latter choice is simple, most likely correct. The former would take a huge amount of work and nuanced understanding to align with our aspirations of gender equality.
4
Well it's a good start! Thank you Miss America pageant for dumping the swimsuit competition.
Let's reward these ladies for their intellect and talent.
1
I kind of liked the swimsuit part. I predict Grechen Carlson will distantly be remembered for having destroyed the Miss America Pageant.
8
I'll believe it when I see the first 180 pound Miss America contestant.
12
Following the Miss America announcement that the swimsuit competition is being dropped, the Nobel Prize committee has announced that nominees are no longer required to have accomplished anything.
11
Brilliant! You really made this old duffer laugh.
3
Wasn't that the case already?
1
Should have happened long ago.
2
My questions would be: Why stop at eliminating just the swimsuit portion of the contest--why not eliminate the whole pageant? It is antiquated and does nothing for womanhood except continue the objectification of it.
18
The only thing more absurd than a beauty pageant is a pageant.
6
They can't do that. That President Trump's favorite part!
1
How foolish to think women over the age of 18 can make their own decisions. About what to wear. The next thing they will want is to join the military.
10
Great! Let them compete on who is fastest solving partial differential equations!
14
NONLINEAR Partial Differential Equations!
4
How about rigorous proofs??
2
How rigorous do you want them to be? Will showing viscosity bounds be enough?
Oh well no more watching Miss America for me! Oh wait no I stopped watching it years ago, lol.
5
Haven't we NYT readers becoming the very fascists we revile? Cheerleaders, beauty pageant contests... Slash and burn. Has anyone asked the girls how they feel about it? They may be misguided, but I'm sure you would all quickly judge them as being so since you know what's actually best for them.
4
Paulo: they’re not “girls.” Girls are between birth and age 18. At 18, they’re called women. Women. These were women participating in this antiquated, sexist, out-of-touch program.
6
Fascist??? I don’t think that word means what you think it means.
1
One small correction. Dear NYT, this is not "an era of female empowerment and gender equality." This is an era in which women's demand for empowerment and equality is being heard.
Sort of. Sometimes.
19
Silly me. I thought it was a beauty contest.
It has always been about celebrating the feminine physique and beautiful women with beautiful bodies in swimsuits and beautiful gowns, and the winer wearing a tiara.
In an age when the average American is fat and overweight, we should be able to celebrate men and women with beautiful physiques. And, those who have beautiful bodies should be able to compete. Time goes at warp speed and those bodies won’t look that great for very long. Trust me.
What is next? A body building competition in three piece suits.
In the age of narcissism, I would have expected differently. Where is the narcissist in Chief when you need him.
11
At least the womenfolk of America has realized the significance of gender equality now. In fact such odd shows have resulted in exploitation of women.
2
Give me a break... the whole thing is based on judging women by their appearance. Either admit what these contests are or retire them completely (my vote) but let's not go down the road of pretending this is about "internal beauty". If it is, let's make it a radio program/podcast with no visuals and see if gets an audience.
26
Too be honest I've always thought that events like this are really weird. Why they are even happening in today's day and age baffles me.
15
Ah yes! Gretchen Carlson now takes a courageous stand after years of cashing in and spreading lies for Fox News. She has no moral standing whatsoever, further showing the absurdity of this entire antiquated enterprise.
15
What we're facing as a society is a perfect storm of puritanism and infantalism. Must we all deny our innate attraction to physical beauty just because doing so can hurt the feelings of those of us who have less of it.
What's next, should we reject all forms of interpersonal judgement? Does anyone actually believe that adults are incapable of celebrating certain facets of a human's being (especially in the venue designed specifically for that purpose - i.e. athletic events for athleticism, beauty contests for beauty, academic endeavors for scholastic aptitude, etc.) without denying the existence of other qualities? That's what the deniers (PC moral crusaders, outraged feminists, Taliban, etc.) would have you believe. They'll claim they're just trying to save you and I from some sort of evil oppression. Really, they are seeking to limit our ability to be fully human because they are threatened -- unwilling or incapable of dealing with jealousy, the hard existential truth that one isn't the center of the universe and that some people truly are better than others.
24
Oh no!!! The demise of beauty pageants- what a tragedy!!! (Sarcasm alert)
Nay, rather, starting this year, we shall judge you on your baton-twirling skills!
2
My wife couldn’t breast feed because her milk ducts were cut during breast implant surgery that she underwent to improve her chances in the swimsuit competition part of the Miss America pageant. Enough said.
12
These pageants might have been started by and owned by men but the audience is definitely women. I don’t know a single one of my male friends who wouldn’t rather watch bowling or reruns of Storage Wars before they sat through a single minute of a beauty pageant.
9
this thing still exists?
7
women in this pageant should not be judged on their appearance!!! the required attire should be burkas.
7
I’d rather see the swimsuits dropped than the swimsuit event.
19
Thanks for the chuckle PaulN. :-)
4
That got a chuckle from me, too. A surprise quip.
3
This first national competition under the new rules should be the best.
The contestants will be selected in state competitions in which beauty is the main factor, and then have to deliver "ideas" and talent.
I'll watch that one.
3
It’s a good lesson. Lower the bar. Try this with surgery and overnight delivery. Car and truck accidents happen when rushing a delivery. Harvard is going to start accepting applicants who kind of have good SAT scores.
1
Greg,
What “bar”?
1
Beauty pageants seem weirdly outdated to me. Though I’d certainly give a look, I empathize with the discomfort women must feel when parading in a bikini.
5
It's a beauty contest, not a personality judging event. The women that enter know that and feel able to compete, or they wouldn't enter...just like architects build, writers write, ballplayers play ball, etc....and the best one wins. So let them compete, stop being jealous.
3
Since this pageant is based almost solely on a woman’ physical appearance, why not do away with it entirely?
17
Why are people acting so high and mighty on these vanity competitions? Why is Miss America wrong but the workout competitions okay? And if you think they’re both wrong then why? Why is looks bad to judge against bad but your ability to throw a dart or dunk a basketball okay to judge? None of this morality makes any sense from a secular society.
2
What happens when she goes to the Miss Universe contest?
1
It’s about time! Now scrap beauty competitions entirely. Who thought it was ever a good idea to judge women based on how they look? Notice there have never been any similar competitions judging men on how they look.
I remember as a young girl comparing myself to the women I saw, back when they used to announce their measurements. It was a lesson in you must look like this and measure up like this. In high school I got to the point I sometimes had only jell-o or a cup of bullion for lunch, no breakfast and little dinner.
It’s time to stop the madness.
8
Men get judged on how tall they are all the time. Also, they get judged on how much income they have. Asa guy, I think men get judged more by women than women get judged by men. Most women I know are pickier than most men I know. Anyhow, men's bodies get judged all the time in body-building competitions. Every single muscle gets judged.
6
Except body building competitions
Fella,
Is that all you got from my comment?
Bodybuilding competitions aren't exclusive to males.
1
Beauty is more than skin deep! Only problem is this has always been a beauty pageant.
3
Stack ranking was eliminated from where I work in favor of a more realistic way to determine employee performance. The complaints against stack ranking was that it made the ordeal a superficial beauty contest.
1
So it's basically a college age talent and intelligence contest?
3
The viewership for this pageant is around 80% women. Sorry, but guys just aren't into pageants. Truth be told, women probably WANT to see the contestants in their evening gowns and bathing suits. So this probably spells the end of the pageant.
12
It’s about time. Just to show support for the org’s decision, I’ll watch the competition for the first time since I was a child. You are wise to appoint women to manage the Miss America contest.
2
I was sort of surprised this thing was still even going on. Anachronistic event isn't it?
7
Sheesh. It's about time!
5
This is to be expected and is wholly consistent with the emasculation of America and, indeed, the whole of the west. We are becoming a dainty, effete people and are, consequently, more and more vulnerable to the hordes in the third world who would kill us
7
If your masculinity relies on beauty contestants in bikinis, maybe that's a you problem.
6
Not lining up women and judging their barely clad bodies is hardly effete.
2
You've got to be kidding, right? The US is full of violent (men), every day there are shootings and deaths due to violence, we see men like Mr. Weinstein who take advantage of women sexually - if that is your notion of masculinity it is all here on display.
1
But you still judge women.
5
My first reaction was “is this really a matter that needs addressing?” Its been a part of the pagent so long that its less about the nature of the swimsuits and moreso tampering with tradition. “This is how its always been, so why change it?”
But when I actually read the chairman’s remarks and the reactions of the participants I began to agree with their perspective, as one that I wouldn’t inately arrive at myself being a male. I think the change is all for the better.
2
First it was a beauty contest. Then a beauty and "brains" contest. Now I guess it's highest SAT scores and best essay.
6
Don't guess. Find out.
Killed it! Let's have them take a battery of exams and then they can slowly reveal who had the highest score over 3 hours.
2
I think we already have the spelling Bee contest, pick miss america from there
1
Lots of comments advocating ending the pageant. Not to worry - When they take out the swimsuit competition and the other beauty elements, the rapidly dwindling audience will go down so fast that there will be more Duck Dynasty viewers in NYC than the worldwide audience for Miss America.
4
Interesting, we live in a country where the majority of white women will not hesitate to say "yes! this is good for the dignity of women!" and then the next day they in their majority will go ahead and will vote for Trump. Go figure!
11
That’s because the Democratic Party has abandoned the average working man AND woman, whether you are white, black, or brown. Don’t blame Orange Man - blame Hillary and her minions who blew it.
7
Sure, sure, and you felt Trump was the savior of America when?, when he twitted that he hates mexicans?
1
@king David Trump won working class whites because Democrats haven't appeared to care about them for decades.
2
"'We are not going to judge you on your outward appearance,' Ms. Carlson, who was Miss America in 1989, said on ABC’s “Good Morning America” on Tuesday. 'We are moving it forward and evolving it in this cultural revolution.'"
It seems that Ms. Carlson, after spending years lowering FoxNews's ratings, plans on sending the Miss America Pageant's ratings rocketing to zero.
11
I'm actually surprised to hear that the Miss America Pageant still exists.
13
Drop the entire program. It's a disgrace.
13
You apparently have no respect for women to make their own choices.
3
Yeah
Good luck with that. Playboy did real good following that business model.
9
Why must women be sexualized objects for men?
What a terrible message to send to young girls.
Creepy, in fact.
6
And it’s still working. Ritzy new Playboy Club on schedule to open in Manhattan this coming September:
“Initiation fees run up to $250,000, which includes access to Playboy’s sleek black jet and 15 nights at the club, which has 30 rooms for its members, a source said.
“We’ve already sold $2.2 million worth of memberships,” a source said, adding that memberships are now on hold as a waiting list grows. ‘We didn’t expect so many members before our marketing began. We need to curate our list.’
“Women have bought around 45 percent of all memberships sold so far, said an insider, who won’t reveal members’ names, except to say they are from Wall Street, Hollywood and foreign nations.“
https://nypost.com/2018/06/04/playboys-exclusive-new-nyc-club-all-about-...
2
Isn’t hypocracy fun?
1
Gone are the days of the man jetting off to work sporting his writing utensils in his pocket protector and the woman wearing her hoop skirt looking like a million dollars as her man comes homes from a hard day at the office. The roles are now intertwined, it’s a good thing. We’ve progressed to new possibilities and challenges. Let’s just hope we’re going to like what we’re going to get. Just remember this: You can take the bikini away from the man, but you can’t take the man away from the bikini.
2
Good, then let him wear it.
3
“We are not going to judge you on your outward appearance,”.... so is it no longer a "beauty contest"? If not, then what is it? An "inner beauty" contest or a talent contest or what. I'm not saying it's wrong to get out of the swim suit strutting business I just wonder if this sort of event is a thing of the past and we have moved on. And that's prehaps what I would hope for but I suspect that the readily available more down and dirty exhibitions of sex on the runway are winning out and leaving the Miss America type of prime time tv show behind.
5
The real “solution” is to end—completely shut down—the sexist charade known as the Miss America Pageant.
15
Should work about as well as when Playboy got rid of nude women.
5
Perhaps this pageant will evolve into the Miss Mensa pageant. Then only those in the top 2% based on IQ tests can entertain us with their amazing intellect.
11
I love this comment! Miss Mensa!
1
If judging people by their appearances is so wonderful, where is the men's pageant where contestants are required to wear thong g-strings and strut around on stage? Of course these men should also be well-endowed since obviously they will be judged on their "package" just as female contestants have always been judged on their breast size (has there ever been an A-cup contestant that made it anywhere in the competition? I doubt it). They must also have completely hairless bodies, perfectly contoured eyebrows, and makeup to highlight their pretty features and hide their faults. Now, boys (cuz you know the female contestants are regularly called girls), get up in front of a panel of all women who are ready to judge you and a huge TV audience of the public picking apart your appearance...do you feel pretty now?
9
"where is the men's pageant where contestants are required to wear thong g-strings and strut around on stage?"
ACTUALLY, THERE USED TO BE A HALF-DOZEN OF THOSE IN DOWNTOWN DENVER. I'M SURE YOU CAN STILL FIND ONE IF YOU'RE REALLY INTERESTED.
4
Why are you screaming?
They would really be evolving if they dropped the entire competition.
10
The whole concept of "Miss America" or "Miss USA", or whatever other place the Misses are from, is sexist and should be scrapped.
The contest allegedly is going to focus on talent, intelligence and ideas. So why is there not a similar contest for men, also focusing on talent, intelligence and ideas? Oh, I forgot - there already is - it's called "life". If these women want to work towards real equality, they should get with the picture, bring their ideas up to date, and enter into the real world.
15
Actually, Nigel, we wouldn't be talking about them if they were not already in the "real" world.
you can take away the swimsuit competition, but you won't make beauty pageants any less shallow and insignificant.
23
Really, who cares. My wife and I have always thought it was a meat market!
7
Oh the sheer irony. So the Miss America BEAUTY pageant wants to evolve with the times, and drop the swimsuit competition. Meanwhile, these women are still being mainly judged on their appearances. (You don't get to participate in this contest in the first place, without meeting certain criteria with regards to your physical appearance. Barbie Doll looks, 'perfect skin', statuesque, 'perfect' teeth, 'nice hair', slender, able-bodied, etc.
9
As with anything that starts off with noble intentions-- in this case the blowback against Harvey Weinsteinism -- the noble intentions jump the shark and become a rigid puritanical theology that cannot be questioned for fear of excommunication. What is all this but the latest incarnation of good old fashioned 17th Century New England Puritanism? How ironic that that the very progressives who fought against Puritanism in the 1950's and 60's are now it most vocal ideologues.
And since the accepted wisdom now is complete sexual equality, what's next? Mr America will no longer show off muscles in a skimpy? Rather prove his worth in chess matches, essay writing and diaper changing? Why not? Fair is fair. Yes?
20
Why are they still doing this? And while we're at it, can we please get rid of those ridiculous kiddie pageants?
19
"Why are they still doing this?"
Obviously, because people watch.
Ask any sponsor.
1
Well, this announcement finally killed it once and for all. So advertisers, what incentive remains now for millions of viewers to tune in?
The MAP has always been about beautiful women strutting their stuff. Does the average male viewer really care about pre-rehearsed questions and answers where the contestant vows to do some social work somewhere? Not in your lifetime!
This pageant has been like a dying patient with a terminal disease in the final stages and Carlson's actions just confirmed it. Time to end it and put it out of its misery.
14
If you want to know who watches beauty pageants, look at the TV commercials. For the most part, it's not men.
2
The last period when we saw so much use of adjectives such as "skimpy" and "revealing" was in the 1950's. Then we worried that God would be offended and that our youth would be led into iniquity. Now we worry that women will be offended and that men will be inspired to unleash their animal instincts.
Have our ways of thinking and our respect for most people's integrity really changed very much?
2
"But many live shows have experienced similar ratings declines, including “Sunday Night Football,” the Olympics, the Oscars and the Grammys."
This may have something to do with the growing number of channels, cable and online, available. More and more people are watching the content they want to watch rather than the lousy content they were forced to watch on the major networks.The era of Hobson's choice TV has long past.
As far as football, Oscars and Grammy's go, hopefully it has something to do with a waning appetite for the celebrity worship culture. Maybe people just don't care to watch strutting NFL thugs as much any more. Who has time for 60 minutes of football stretched out to a four plus hour spectacle that's more beer commercial and instant replay than it is actual football? Maybe we don't care about self aggrandizing, high-school drop out movie stars lecturing us on politics and social justice on the Oscars. Maybe people just aren't that interested in watching functionally illiterate "personalities" who neither read music nor play an instrument and have to sing through auto-tune on the Grammy's. Sadly, I kind of doubt it.
3
It is actually eleven minutes of playing time. Seems absurd. Each play, from whistle to whistle, last for 5-10 seconds.
3
Who has time for 60 minutes of football stretched out to a four plus hour spectacle
MILLIONS.
THE STATS ARE AVAILABLE IF YOU CARE TO LOOK.
4
This is good news, because now we can celebrate our collective obesity.
17
HUH? We're all going to get "Senior paunch" without the contest?
Ok, I’m gonna stick a fork in it, it’s done and forgotten, already.
4
This is great.
But the truth is that to keep the viewership (whether we like it or not, skin sells), they are going to have to completely reinvent this competition. If they just twiddle around the edges, my guess is that they will toast. But if they really fully embrace this change it could become really interesting.
They could focus on three attributes:
* physical/performance talent (encompassing music, sports, dance, etc.)
* academic/intellectual talent
* social intelligence/leadership talent
They'd receive a combine score of each of the three components. The score would be based on their prior accomplishments plus their in-competition performance.
The physical/performance talent could allow for a variety of things during the competition. A variety athlete could elect to show a 2 minute highlight reel. A dancer might elect to do a performance during the competition, etc. This could be done in rounds, a la America's Got Talent. Your final score for this segment is based on what round you got to before going out.
The intelligence portion of the competition could be something like a 3-on-3 debate format. The contestants would be scored by judges on their performance, and maybe American voting. This could be done in rounds so that, e.g., the top two advance.
The leadership talent could be assessed via projects done in groups that are filmed and judged.
This would select for smart women from top schools with a performance/athletic talent.
1
Yes, the talent part must stay; after all, without a brain, what are you showing us, scantily clad cattle for sale? I suppose a strong sexual content, as depicted, may satisfy our curiosity and imagination but not necessarily parity. Is this porno lite, by another name? You are not even showing the latest car model with a model to mimic exciting propaganda (no relation one with the other, if you think about it). Oh well, who said hypocrisy is gone? And who am I to judge, while enjoying the show?
Now wait just a second here, Miss America Pageant -- we haven't heard from the Commander in Chief yet on this critically important issue! Hopefully he will act to prevent the highly negative effect this will have on our national morale. Surely he will nullify and forbid this sudden, unexpected, and reckless abandonment of an ancient tradition and important annual civic ritual.
He's already saved Coal and Nuclear Power, now it's time to come to the rescue of one of our key Traditional Culture institutions. Let's hope relief is just a tweet away here. Tweet, sir, tweet! God Bless America!
11
What’s next, outlawing white bread? Will Twinkies vanish from our markets? Will our local weather lady be forced to wear conservative clothing? We need to hear what King Trump has to tweet on these essential matters.
5
We don't have to worry about Twinkies. He loves them.
So how will this feed into the Miss Universe Pageant? Are all the the other countries going to follow the new criteria?
The whole thing is archaic and absurd anyway. Best just to put it all away. Times have changed. Women are more objectified than ever in popular media, music, and the internet. There is no need to add a cloistered layer of appropriateness. Let’s keep the scholarships and award them to strong women and those who may no be so strong, but show promise in their character.
2
I would just like to point out that no matter how much good Ms Carlson does for the rest of her life she can never make amends for the harm she did this nation and the world with her work at Fox News.
I'd quote something From Vonnegutt's '"Mother Night" here but I cannot recall it well enough.
6
And I'd quote something from Richardson's "Clarissa," but I never read it.
1
A few commenters suggested that there should be a contest for men to strut around, as if that would never happen.
Google Mr. America or Mr. Olympia.
Make sure you have a magnifying glass or you might miss the tiny bikini bottoms.
5
Nice try. We also have female bodybuilding contests. There is no male equivalent to beauty pageants.
1
Personally, I can't decide which would be more tedious: a beauty pageant or the Academy Awards. Why they even bother with these ridiculous ceremonies I can't imagine.
8
Just end the 'pageant.' The entire concept is ludicrous - judging women like prize farm animals.
We'll still have the 4-H Club animal husbandry awards at the State Fair for those who must have that sort of thing in their lives.
5
Looking at the livestock does not compare to looking at near naked women and fantasizing.
6
It's true that we don't need swimsuits to empower women. Or beauty. Or pageants. Or Miss America.
Seems like a Pyrrhic victory.
7
There will always be beauty, as for the rest, good riddance.
1
It's no small irony that Gretchen Carlson, a woman who has made an entire career of trading on her looks, now will lead the charge to remove physical appearance from the Miss America pageant.
In a country cowed by political correctness and the power of the social media mob, we might very well shame beauty pageants and NFL cheerleaders out of existence. Hollywood also might force-feed us a diet of unprofitable movies starring unattractive people. But do the proponents of these movements actually believe they can stamp out the human preference for beauty, so that it will be meaningless in our human interactions? Do they honestly believe that the women who can actually wear them will trade in all of their little black dresses? Judging from the billions being made in the fitness, diet, fashion, and cosmetics industries, they have their work cut out for them.
I imagine that millions of American's can't wait to tune in to Miss America 2018 to watch women in pant suits and sensible shoes doing physic problems.
IN ALL SERIOUSNESS, more Americans need to read the intersectional feminism/toxic masculinity literature driving these movements. You will be frightened.
12
Forcing women to parade around scantily clad to "earn" an award for something they had nothing to do with creating, is not the same thing as preferring beauty.
If you cannot on the face of it see that it is wrong I do not know how to get through to you. It is as self evident as, all men being created equal and the right to life liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
1
Yes, the proponents think exactly that. They believe that human (especially male) biology is bad and needs to be altered.
I jokingly mentioned Vonnegut's "Harrison Bergeron" upthread somewhere but that dystopia is exactly what some people would want.
They think that beauty is unfair (which it is) and that it shouldn't be celebrated (which it should)
1
I missed the part where any woman was “forced” to do anything ...
Wait, I forgot, women are fragile little defenseless and clueless waifs, incapable of making their own choices and decisions. Thanks for reminding us.
2
Okay, I confess. I was once in a beauty contest and twirled two batons. I did so because a local merchant paid money to the pageant committee. And I was made to feel guilty if I didn't participate.
This is a "girl thing", but if you have not watched "Miss Congeniality", a satire on beauty pageants, you might enjoy a few scenes. A link of one of the funniest scenes is below:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHYbbHaOBIs
Dirty Harriet indeed. A/K/A Gracie Lou Freebush, Miss New Jersey, A/K/A Grace Hart, an undercover FBI agent.
It embarrassed me that the baton twirler won Miss America.
2
Good! Since there will be no swimsuits, now they can include transgender women too.
5
Often transgender women look like Miss Universe ...even in a bikini
Meanwhile, in order to discourage elitism, the organisers of the Spelling Bee will banish the use of words.
14
So the Boy Scouts are now for girls and boys and the Miss America pageant is no longer about physical beauty. If the people in charge of these organizations had more integrity and less desire for protecting their jobs, they would end the organizations. If the Boy Scouts are no longer about boys being with boys doing things boys like, and the Miss America pageant no longer about physical beauty (you know, like Playboy without pictures), then they are obsolete and should cease operations.
12
How bout we stop judging women entirely?
8
How about we stop judging people?
1
No one sane is going to pretend that people don't have different levels of attractiveness. Some of us are more gifted than others in that department.
What is wrong with celebrating that?
3
Do people still watch this?
7
“We are not going to judge you on your outward appearance,” Gretchen Carlson, a former Fox News anchor..." Well, then why do they have the pageant? That is clearly what it has been about and will still be because I will bet you all the women will still be in their early 20's, very beautiful and in "bikini body" fashion. The pageant has always been sexist and chauvinist. The only way to change that is to cancel it totally, permanently or to make it a contest of intellectual prowess. My vote: Cancel it and own up to what it has always been: a sex show before porn was widespread.
3
Good idea. Even though some people —including some women, I’ll bet — may enjoy it, why should they be allowed that bit of stupid pleasure if it offends the people who don’t watch it, have never watched it, and never will watch it? It just doesn’t make any sense for some people to enjoy things that other people don’t...
3
Well, Emperor, good thing you were around when debauchery was the rule of law.
Heck, I'd wear a swimsuit in a beauty competition if it looked like one of the ones worn by Miss Camden or Miss Philadelphia in 1921!
5
Instead of water boarding, if the new CIA director wants to torture anyone, she should simply force them to watch this.
5
YEA! Its about time....
Well there goes at least half their audience, maybe more. Once again, in the immortal words of Ron White. There ain't no cure for stupid.
2
Well, that’s kind of ridiculous. If they’re not judging by appearance, does that mean the most accomplished young musician, promising scientist, or talented athlete will be selected as contestants, even if they’re a a bit plain-looking or overweight? Of course not. To be sure, physical beauty is a superficialand transient quality. Nonetheless, it’s rather pointless to pretend it’s not important to humans—especially so in a beautiful contest. Why not have two contests, one for women, and, to be fair, one for men, both based on nothing but looks?
7
The way it seems to work is that young fit women like to wear skimpy outfits unless they have to. The skimpiest track uniforms are bikinis. Women don’t have to wear them but most do. The same with beach volleyball. I got my daughter leggings for winter workouts. And she started wearing them every day. If you got it flaunt it. But if you tell me to flaunt I’ll object.
7
Kind of like patriotism?
2
Kind of like philanthropy.
Is it still a beauty pageant? What is beauty? (Or truth, for that matter) Being honest, I enjoy the sight of pretty women in small swimsuits. Am I a monster? I don't feel like one, but I'm not sure anymore.
13
I would be in favor of a no plastic surgery competition and a no platform heels competition. It's a meat market, so why should anyone object to a swimsuit competition?
8
Now here's a step in the right direction!
5
Indeed! Back to the 50's! Very progressieve!
4
Reminds me of an experience I had a couple weeks ago.
I was driving visiting family members through the Brickell section of downtown Miami, and as we were waiting at a red light, we saw a young couple; he, in cargo shorts and tennis shoes, and she, in 4-inch (at least) spiked heels and very short shorts. She looked distinctly pained; we winced for her as having to sexualize herself to her apparent great discomfort. Did I mention they were "walking" (quotes for her sake) on fake cobblestone?
Try that one, men.
Beauty dog-and-pony shows.
As creepy as it gets.
10
So Miss America becomes personality and inner beauty pageant? Good luck with that.
18
Thank you, NYT, for including the picture of the women parading in their bikinis... so we can know just what it is that’s no longer appropriate.
12
In addition to doing away with the Miss America swimsuit competition, I’d like to see a Mr. America pageant, WITH swimsuit competition, publicized and broadcast as widely as the soft-porn Miss America has been until now.
Let men be pushed, pulled, pinned and taped into perfection for leering audiences. Let men experience the feeling of being pursued and violated by millions of eyes. Let their partners, watching the competition with them, make lewd and/or condescending comments about the contestants. Or worse: unfavorably comparing the men watching with the contestants.
Good start, Gretchen. But until men have walked in Miss America’s high heels, they’ll NEVER KNOW or understand about being treated as sexual objects. And that’s something they need to know in their guts.
9
They already have it, it’s how the former Gov of CA became famous. Bodybuilding. Or the movie Magic Mike. It’s not a big deal for men. Sorry.
4
There are Men's physique and bodybuilding competitions.
6
Men don’t mind being treated as sex objects. Until you become a man, stop making generalisations like I just did.
3
This brings to mind the decision a couple of years ago by Ringling Bros-Barnum & Bailey Circus that, for various high-minded reasons, they would no longer display their trained elephants. The RBB&B Circus is now gone for good. No elephants, no point in going to the circus. Hmm.
10
Now if only we could pan the Victoria's Secret annual fashion show too- I really hate that one. More than the Miss America swimsuit competition. I believe that the original MA pageant took place in Atlantic City on the boardwalk in swimwear.
4
Women should be free to wear what they want or not wear anything at all if they so choose. They should not be made to feel that they are inviting harassment for their clothing or lack of it. Whats next? College girls being told not to drink too much to avoid harassment?
No matter what their clothing is or is not, what their sobriety levels are , at no point should women be made to feel they have responsibility for being harassed. time for people to wake up.
4
Those who want to get rid of it should just not watch it. Women are not forced to participate just as men are not forced to participate in mixed-martial arts. But both of these event have their detractors who want to shut it all down for everyone so that our society can evolve. And these people wonder why Ms. Clinton lost-you'd think people would learn to stop lecturing and pushing their morals on consenting adults.
20
I think you’ll get your wish if they eliminate the swimsuit competition. The Ms. America pageant will die a quick death in the ratings and will be a historical footnote in no time.
4
The audience was dwindling. Now it's going to evaporate. It is a ridiculous spectacle of nonsense. Which is precisely why people watch it. Correction: used to watch it. Like "Dancing With the Stars" and "The Bachelor," no one takes this stuff seriously. Political Correctness is going to erode every guilty pleasure in this country. Ask the NFL team owners.
This sort of thing is why Trump is president.
12
Oh please! It's a beauty pageant, not the PSAT's to pick the National Merit Finalists! Who are we kidding here? This will be a joke. As for the "talent" portion, it's always been awful - most of these women are beautiful but far from talented in any way and it shows. Now, their beauty is not to be taken into account?
Either let it be what it is or shut it down. Ridiculous...
23
There are people that are both talented and beautiful. Wouldn;t
How about just end the Miss America thing totally. What an anachronistic waste of time and drivel.
12
"We are not going to judge you on your outside appearance".
I'll believe that when they award the crown to a talented, intelligent, but ugly woman.
11
Beauty pageants should be done away with completely.Soul numbing,shallow and embarrassing displays of WHAT exactly??
Especially gruesome are little girl pageants as in Jon Benet…nothing good can come from any of this.How about our president swanning into the dressing room of the miss universe leering at the semi nude girls…skeeeevy.
7
You do realize that it is mother’s that encourage their young daughters to participate in beauty contests, not fathers.
1
Yay! I liked the gowns best, anyway.
2
Scrapping the swimsuit portion is a good start. Why not update other portions of the pageant?
What if Miss America overhauled all the criteria - and judges - used to determine who embodies "Miss America"?
Do away with evening wear. Make the interviews more personal. Scrap the final question and ask LOTS of questions - what mistakes have you made from which you've learned hard lessons? what concerns you about today's culture? what is one social ill you would remedy, and how would you go about it, if you were in charge - homelessness, cancer research, health insurance coverage.
Let's find out what's inside these women's hearts and minds and souls.
Increase the age eligibility - or end that, too. Why can't a 70-year-old woman be Miss America? And do away with physical (appearance) requirements.
I would LOVE to see a a 50-year-old woman who completely turned around her life crowned Miss America - formerly addicted to drugs or alcohol, developed adult-onset diabetes, never got an education...who then got her GED at 25, lost 50 pounds reversed her diabetes, went to college in her 30s (or 40s), and became a teacher. Or a nurse. Or a social worker. Or has her own business.
I would gladly tune into that show. I think lots of other people of all ages would too.
7
Who is the audience? My bet is other, slightly younger, teen girls.
2
No swimsuits? If appearance is not a factor, then no makeup or bare arms and legs. Taken to a logical extreme, women could compete for Miss America in burkas.
18
Really? Feeling deprived of free broadcast soft porn, Wade?
How about you enter a Mr. America contest? Show off yourself in a skimpy swimsuit, with thousands of hungry eyes devouring YOUR physique?
3
They do. It’s called bodybuilding competitions. It’s no big deal. Men don’t complain about bodybuilding competitions. Sorry ladies.
2
I think it's very easy to blame the objectification of pageantry all on men but I don't believe that attractive women themselves don't want to be judged on their looks. Many are born with natural advantages - intelligence, perseverance, competitiveness, size, speed, strength, endurance - and they exploit those advantages in areas where those qualities are most needed for success. Furthermore, the world sees nothing wrong in praising those people for their advantages. Why is beauty any different? Winning a beauty pageant is an unusual accomplishment that brings fame and many unique experiences; it may also be the start of a career. Although many would say cynically that these young women are only pawns for male fantasy, it's entirely possible that they know what they're doing, they've made an intelligent decision, and they are hoping to be judged precisely upon their appearance. Attractive people would be the first to object to a society that pretended there were no differences in looks; they don't need to be paternalistically guarded as if we lived in the 19th century.
8
"Entirely possible they know what they're doing"? I'm sure they know what they are doing - how condescending to think otherwise.
The larger point here is that it seems retrograde to have an event where women are judged solely on their beauty when there is no analogous event for judging men.
You never heard of bodybuilding contests? Look up the last Republican Governor of California and check out how he got his start.
2
Why do these kinds of arguments always end in a false equivalency?
I am not sure how this is considered true "progress" - shouldn't the notion of using our talents, passions and ambition to advance important social causes be an universal value - not one imposed on women through these irrelevant and demeaning platforms? #byebyebikini is long overdue. It's merely a PR effort to prolong and preserve a demeaning "tradition" built on objectification of women.
1
Miss America abolished the swimsuit competition for the same reason that playboy no longer features nude pictures. With pornography all over the internet, those who feel the need to look at scantily clad women no longer have to sit through commercials and Bert Parks' singing. My guess is that no one was watching it for the swimsuits anymore, and that this will have no significant effect on their ratings. It might even cause a slight spike of curious new viewers.
3
I presume, as they are now judging women based on their inward appearance, broadcasting the show on television will be done-away with and the Miss American pageant will be carried on the radio.
20
Who needs the swimsuit competition in these beauty pageants anyway? We will still have the endless hours of laughter for the baffling hilarity of some of the nitwit answers these contestants will give in their question & answer sessions! That's because they will always go viral!
3
The heels are what is really gross. Swimsuit with heels? Icky, icky, icky.
5
The strange thing is the pageant is most, if not exclusively, watched by women. Just look at the audience. Men have lots of outlets to see women with far less on. The swimsuit contest is a fashion advertisement of swimsuits for women and how women can look beautiful in them.
This is where feminisms political correctness overrides the actual will of the viewers. This is another example of how a feminist dominated media crafts a narrative of victimization of women rather than embracing the desires of the majority of women. Hillary lost because of this narrow group of feminist demanded all women follow their version and definition of equality, or, there would be a special place in Hades for those who didn't.
16
I have long ceased watching Miss America and Miss Universe pageants decades ago. Whether they wear a bikini or not is not going to give me any incentive to watch again. When all is said and done, the criteria is seems to be good looks and how fashionable they look in gowns and other clothing. Meh. Who really cares. Are these the way we decide the "worth" of a woman?
3
Here's another anecdote that's not so funny this time. Miss America unexpectedly gave Jews a real morale booster in 1945 when Bess Meyerson became the first and only Jewish woman to win the Miss America title. Jews everywhere were still coming to grips with the aftermath of the Holocaust. Six million Jews had been slaughtered in death camps such as Auschwitz and Treblinka. Yet it was Bess Meyerson who gave the Jews hope that we would survive and go on to achieve great things. Hey if a Jewish woman could win Miss America then anything was possible.
13
Okay, Sports Illustrated. You're next.
8
Guess they're keeping the evening gowns so the winning "girls" will still be able to wear the sparkly tiara no matter how many warts they're sporting.
This was never about the answer to the question section of the competition. It was always about the prettiest gal with the most poise.
I foresee a "Queen For A Day" competition with dueling tearful stories of overcoming massive barriers (accidents, disease, parental neglect) offering up hand-wringing and cringe-worthy grimness from half a hundred women. Probably not wanna-watch TV.
7
After this pageant is taken off the air for lack of viewership somebody, years from now, will revive it and America will call him/her a genius and celebrate!
5
My chances at a crown just got a lot better. Not good, just better!
5
How about judging women of all ages, not just the very young?
4
There are pageants for Mrs. America & Ms. Senior America.
1
It can “evolve” by just going away. It is an anachronism, especially now when the true damage and scope of the sex objectivism of women are finally being exposed. Keeping the pageant in any kind of format is an unacceptable and insulting double standard and sends a mixed message.
What started as a holiday gimmick 100 years ago became a cultural phenomenon, which has now become an embarrassment. Not exactly my definition of “evolution”.
14
Ok. Let's have a math constest. We will call it Ms. Math.
Appreciating human beauty is not a crime. A pageant is a pageant, leave the rest out.
11
So a a check-splitting contest.
3
What ignorance. And what misogyny in your comment.
I got maam splained.
About time. There are many other beautiful female charcteristics that can be appreciated without having to expose bodies.
5
Oh, yea thats going to be great ratings.
5
I never liked swimsuits with high heels anyway, especially the big pointy toe shoes they used to wear - looks bloody stupid and tacky. I also stopped watching or caring about the contest a long time ago, probably when I was in high school, so I don't really care what they do.
4
Here's another funny anecdote-- initially Miss America was created as a gimmick to keep the tourists in Atlantic City after Labor Day. Somehow what was supposed to be a minor event took on a life of its own. Now Miss America is being trashed in the name of political correctness. Bert Parks just rolled over in his grave. It's really sad that women are waging war on each other.
4
Kudos! Well, it's a START toward eliminating the objectification of women.
Hopefully the "swimsuit time"will be replaced by interviewing these very smart women about passing the Equal Rights Amendment in just one more state so that it may be FINALLY RATIFIED as part of the U.S. Constitution.
One can dream, can't we?
9
No swimsuit? Then what’s the point of this competition? It’s not like a competition of geniuses here.
16
How do you know, Jay? What part of the swimsuit competition lets these women show their brain power?
And there you have it, ladies and gents. Jay has just demonstrated what he enjoys about national pastime of assuming attractive women are stupid. In fact assuming ALL women are stupid. Am I right, Jay?
Get rid of the pagent altogether, not just the swimsuit portion. Women don’t need to be judged, they need to be equal with men.
22
Not to worry. All the contestants will have competed and won state/territory beauty contests. Only bodacious beauties will be there.
The entire Miss America "pageant" jumped track years ago and has been little more than a train wreck. There's a world of difference between searching for a beautiful woman who might be exceptionally intelligent and an exceptionally intelligent woman who happens to be beautiful.
Priorities are all screwed up. Just ask the contestants who were in Donald Trump's beauty pageant.
2
It is a bit disconcerting that you used "cultural revolution" in the title of the piece. Just like Mao.
If women feel like they want to talk about global warming (change it to climate change when global cooling comes), gender fluidity, oppression,etc on stage, let them. But this sudden cultural narrative that beauty doesnt matter will end in disaster.
7
Ok, no more judging on appearances.
Will the contestants now be judged on their math skills?
Maybe theyll have to recite prime numbers?
5
Never watched it before. Will not watch it after.
2
You mean women won't be parading around in bikinis and high heels to be "admired" (or leered at) by strangers?
It's what everyone who is cool wears to the beach, especially the high heels.
4
What kind of hypocrisy is this? Judging people by their looks is probably the most ubiquitous (and pernicious) form of discrimination in our society. So we eliminate a contest that explicitly celebrates physical beauty, and continue with the myriad forms of insidious discrimination that really harm and shame people? And that makes us feel proud of ourselves? For shame.
3
Since looks are no longer supposed to count, are they putting bags over all of their heads and completely covering their bodies to ensure they are only judged on their minds?
9
$100 says Trump tweets about this. SAD!
4
"Here she comes...."
"Beauty pageants" are a shameful anachronism that should have died a long time ago with Bert Parks.
13
This isn't progressive. This is another step toward a Brave New World society where physical beauty, sex, and the "animal" part of normal human behavior is disdained. An angry, militant element of our society that wants all men and women to appears as plain gray bricks is using the avalanche of sexual harrassment cases to advance their cause.
Yes, Miss America is first and foremost, a BEAUTY contest. It always has been, and their desperate attempts to classify it as a "scholarship contest" have been lame veils over the truth.
What they should have done is just said, "Ya know what? We're coming clean. It IS a beauty contest, so what?"
There is nothing wrong with a contest that celebrates and awards physical beauty. Nobody has to be exploited. Nobody put a gun to those womens' heads to make them participate. If they are doing this for fun, or the money, or because they know they are pretty and can win, I say GOOD FOR THEM.
Cultural "revolution"? Which means that men are no longer allowed to stare at pretty women and just have fun with the fact that they are pretty women? And women are no longer allowed to stare at hunky men and just enjoy it for what it is?
That's not "revolution". That is denying a big part of what it is to be human. Guess what? We can't all be pretty, or smart, or have certain talents. And tearing down institutions that celebrate any of those things is a horrible idea.
21
Guessing you're proud when your 20-something daughters strut their stuff, wearing scant clothing and sky-high heels in displays created solely to titillate men drooling over their body parts and who have little regard for their intellects or personalities. Ever heard of "sexual objectification" for profit? Too bad these young women feel they have little else to offer in order to win money for college and launch a career.
5
Get ready to be torn down with replies to your comment. Although it’s spot on, it doesn’t fit the new narrative.
3
It's still be a beauty contest without the skimpy swimsuits.
We quit watching this inane production years ago. No one that I know has watched it in years, not even the millennials for heavens sake! They're all watching women and men's sports on the sports channels.
6
I don't object to beautiful people choosing to walk down a runway while scantily clad. Not my cup of tea but, years ago as a young adult, I chose to quit watching after listening to the Q&A responses re. the Miss America contestants' career/life aspirations. Frankly, stuff that, in thinking back, just may have exacerbated the #metoo situation. (sad face)
1
This is an atavistic ritual looking for relevance. Relegate it to the history books.
6
Why not just give them all a trophy and call it a day?
8
America called and it wants its pageant back. You can keep the Ms. Feminist Competition - no one wants it.
9
No, Ken. Horny men in America called in tears wanting their soft porn back.
There are more women in America than men. And I bet most of us are cheering this development.
Better go back to your Playboy mags.
Think Miss Universe will do the same?
3
An obviousy transparent attempt to garner the all-time lowest overnights in the history of TV.
4
Well, that dive bomber sound is male viewership plummeting.
2
Good! Time to get rid of these picking out women like cattle (or should I say chattle).
Go buy yourself a male magazine.
3
“That’s what this multi-billion dollar [fashion] industry is REALLY all about ... Inner Beauty” (Stanley Tucci, The Devil Wears Prada)
6
@Terry, your comments are packed with a lot of false equivalencies.
1. “We are to now ignore the fine tuned athletic bodies...of males and females?... Those people exist, and most have worked hard to refine their sport, dance...”
Are you trying to equate watching athletic events, sports, and ballet performances with a beauty pageant (the sole purpose of which is to objectify women)?
And are you saying that people are incapable of viewing sports and visual artistry without objectifying the human body or being sexually aroused?
2. “It is as old as the history… Some of it is visual, some hormone, some pheromone… we need to go back to radio, have no video at all… let them be judged on their merits.”
Are you saying that people can’t be judged on their merits unless you remove them from their physical self, their sex, ie, bodies? How is that working out for the shadow women walking around in Burqas?
There seems to be a lot of false comparisons by right-wing provocateurs and foreign troll factories populating the comments sections of our news and social media these days.
4
And I thought J.R. Smith's decision was the most brain dead decision of the last couple days...
3
put a fork in it. it's done. the pageant at its core is a sexist notion. get rid of it.
12
There's still a Miss America pageant? Who knew?
9
Well, that’s done.
2
The political correctness insanity of America continues, and grows weirder and more idiotic day by day. This is what Democrats, liberals and progressives have wrought.
10
So, putting women's bodies on display for dirty old men and incels to ogle at and fantasize about is "weird" and "idiotic"? You must be hard up, Paul, but Sports Illustrated still has its swimsuit edition.
7
Its called human biology and hormones. It has been around since the beginning time, regardless what today's media and academia have to say about it.
1
No. This is women saying we’re tired of being leered at (or worse; cf Trump).
You like catcalls and lascivious comments on your appearance?
What’s that? Never experienced sexual harassment? Pity.
"Harrison Bergeron," anyone?
2
Shh...Don't give them any more ideas...
They should just scrap the whole Miss America Pagent. It just objectifies women.
7
Why, yes, because women never objectify themselves, they merely object to being looked at or outshining other women (cue: roll eyes).
6
Interesting and ironic that one of your ads accompanying this article is for Lingerie worn by a buxom model.
1
Ad placement is based on the individual user's browsing history, so ...
9
What complete tripe. Never watched this nonsense and won't now.
4
Do away with the entire pageant; haven't watched it in many, many years. And then do away with the smiling cheerleaders standing in front of thousands tossing their pom poms around, and yelling rah rah. Mindless activity for me.
11
If people are worried about objectifying women's beauty, should people boycott beauty products, painted toenails and fingernails, and other everyday things women do to change their god-given and genetic appearances? Some people worry the swimsuit and gown portion of the Miss America Contest objectify women's beauty while some celebrate beauty and its physical form. Should women give up bikinis, short skirts, and revert to burkas? Wait! Burkas are bad too. We confuse beauty and the ability of a woman to stand on her own too feet. So much of this feels like the helicopter parent hovering over all things.
11
How about instead of just scrapping the scraps, The Miss America Organization scraps the entire Miss America Pageant? In the 21st century, the objectification of women perpetuated by this hideous event cannot be excused.
4
Kinda like Sears saying “no more sales.”
Flight Attendands no longer meeting weight standards?
Post office employees wearing jeans?
I’n not watching anymore.
1
“We are not going to judge you on your outward appearance..."
Then they don't need an evening gown competition either. This is not about respecting women; it's about trying to salvage the pageant's reputation.
It's still a beauty contest. Even in my 70s, I'm an attractive woman. But I'd rather be judged on my morality and intelligence than my beauty any day.
4
The whole concept of the beauty pageant is outdated.
8
Much ado about a pageant that long ago lost it's importance.
The president's tweets on this topic should provide wonderful entertainment, but NYT: Please focus on real news. There are plenty of other outlets for trivia.
5
I disagree that this is not news. As trivial as the Miss America pageant has become, the symbolism of this decision is huge for our culture. I wonder if it will evolve into something I would actually want my daughter to aspire to.
3
This is a landmark moment in America's new war on fun.
9
Good god, beauty pageants are still a thing?
7
Who cares anymore; and what's next? For men, I guess the chopping block will include any showing of bulging biceps during strongman competitions. Miss America contestants better start practicing and honing their violin and harp playing skills. Good luck ladies.
6
You must show “the meat of the tomato,” in this case. Physical beauty is hallmark to the pageant since time immemorial. Standards for physical beauty change over time. A plus size contestant would not be out of the ordinary, I would hope.
2
Will this "inner beauty" be decided by a set of questions? Evidence of community service? "Niceness"?
It's a beauty contest. Physical beauty is what the Miss America pageant contest started with, and looking good in a bathing suit was a big part of that. Are they also going to nix the evening gown competition? And who is going to decide on the standards for this "inner beauty"?
Once you start tinkering with this bogus competition (it's really about entertainment and money now, not about who would best represent a standard for young women) the whole thing falls apart. Abandoning it altogether would be a more honest move.
21
Did you know this? "Miss America and swimsuits have been synonymous since 1921, when the first competition was held in Atlantic City in an effort to extend the summer vacation season with a beauty contest."
It all started just to entice people to enjoy summer longer and they used sex to sell the idea.
Good Job to the people of the Miss America pageant for doing away with it. Many local contests are based on skill and knowledge. Now, make sure BIG donors do not have access to the young women in the back rooms or for "favors".
7
I honestly don’t know how to feel about this. I always dislike beauty contests but i also thought high of the women who competed, very outgoing, hard working, strong (yes, they were also harassed but that was not their fault). The decision to cover their body now is, in my opinion, more illustrative of a conservative movement than a liberal one.
1
This isn't a change, this is the end of Miss America. And this step is simply a soft landing for such. Maybe Ms Carlson has good intentions (or not) as, perhaps, the real goal here is to end it. I chuckled when she was quoted as saying 'the talent competition was the driver of the ratings' at Miss America. Mission accomplished!
5
Jeff Mardo: "This isn't a change, this is the end of Miss America."
I hope you're right.
3
To Patricia:
I agree. But, I wonder what "The Donald" will do now?
This entire production is a relic of a not-me,too era that is gone and best forgotten.
12
So, are there plans to change the Mr. America contest? Some will laugh, but there are Mr. America and Mr. Universe contests in which scantilly clad men parade around in very small swimsuits, graded only on their physical characteristics, not 'talent' segment or questions ("if you had to choose between spending an hour on your right bicep or your left, which would it be?"). Sure, it is a body building contest, which some call 'a sport', but fits all the definitions of body objectification, and to some, sexy. There are also female bodybuilding contests, though fewer probably look upon that as sexy for women. Miss America was originally a beauty contest - different angle than bodybuilding - and has tried to become something different, on the one hand going to bikinis, on the other, trying to show more of the whole woman in talent and thinking, but in the end, they won't succeed in satisfying their critics.
4
They didn’t go far enough.
They should have announced that they were ending the pageants—period. It has been a money-making exploitation of women for too long. At no time in its history has it been representative of the typical woman in our country.
I am more intrigued by the kids who compete in the Scripps Spelling Bee each year. Every kid has a chance to compete if they choose to enter, and they are never judged by how they look or what their personality or goals are—and no phony smiles.
52
I've always been a fan of spelling bees.
1
Saying the paegant exploits women is like saying the spelling bee exploits kids. Theyre both competitions!
2
No, Dee. One is using sex to sell viewership. The other uses skill and intelligence.
Can’t you guess which is which?
4
In a solidarity move, Playboy will no longer objectify and demean their models with a display of nude shots and will instead focus on articles describing their academic achievements.
This move, in my opinion, is another case of things being taken to the extreme. If we as a society are too progressive for beauty contests than lets not have them. Removing the swim suit competition doesnt make a beauty contest less sexist or antiquated. No matter how you dress it up it is still exclusively a competition to identify the most attractive very young women.
26
I'd like to see all these pageants go away - especially the ones involving children. I see a lot of comments regarding these pageants as objectification of women. I must add the vast majority of the viewers are women themselves. (Many men of course are watching something else on their computers.)
17
I think these kid pageants are the absolute worst--parading girls dressed up as adults (and not very flattering versions, either) is the ultimate in poor taste.
I never watch Miss America or other nonsense competitions (yes, that includes the male versions). They're dinosaurs which need to go by the wayside.
4
On the child ones, I'm totally with you. Those kids are definitely being exploited by the pageant system and by their parents and it's sick and twisted.
But Miss America "objectifying" women? I've never bought that. Nobody forces an adult woman to be in a beauty contest. It's a beauty contest (not matter what they say). But really, is that so terrible? Men like to look at pretty women. The "objectifier" crowd better get used to that idea because it's not going away. Men and women get awarded for all sorts of things - some of them are intellectual, like a law degree or a Pulitzer Prize, or winning a spelling bee. And some of them are physical, like winning a track meet. Those people have certain talents and abilities far above the rest of us, and they win and are rewarded. Why is physical beauty any different? They get a prize because they are prettier than the rest of us. So what?
6
Because I never heard of anyone saying ‘I wouldn’t mind getting me some of that’ about a Pulitzer Prize winner.
I am sure this will result in much higher ratings, right?
Perhaps the next step would be to have all the contestants in full burkas and completely veiled so they do not have to be concerned with being objectified.
28
Beauty is about being physically fit. The swimsuit competition should be replaced by an athletic competition.
If that happened, I would start watching and so would my daughter.
3
Ummm, Connie, I do not think the swimsuit competition was aimed at either you or your daughter.
As a female, I don’t think there’s anything wrong with admiring beautiful women (in all their forms). And no one is being forced to enter these contests.
31
Small suggestion. Could you say, as a woman versus as a female?
2
Sure- as a woman. I commonly use the terms female and male in my work (medical field) and don’t mean the word as a sign of disrespect in any way.
I wanted to add to my post above that it’s possible for a woman to be admired for her beauty while at the same time respected for her mind. If a guy wasn’t capable of doing that I’d kick him to the curb!
1
No reason to watch anymore. We didn't tune in to hear the repeated ridiculous wishes for ending hunger and world peace, we tuned in for the physical beauty.
38
So if they will no longer judge women on their “outward appearance” they should change the name of these pageants to
“Inner Beauty” contests. That would certainly send a more constructive message to young women (and men).
6
Yes and they would be broadcast on the radio.
2
Who cares?
But from the comments it seems that this utterly outdated and irrelevant spectacle still matters to a lot of people.
By the way, is this now to be a competition of personality, poise and sagacity? How about maintaining some physical competition? Maybe a few events from the decathlon (1500 meter race; shotput)? Or instead maybe a chess competition or spelling bee?
8
Maybe include a few men? I'll watch the Olympics, more fun all the way around!
1
As someone who was involved in Miss America for over 30 years I can't say that this makes much sense to me. The winner of Miss America needs to show that they are disciplined in every aspect of their daily lives including how they take care of themselves physically. Swimsuit, from a scoring aspect, is the second LOWEST of the 4 categories. No one becomes Miss America based on how they look in a bikini. And if you are looking for a representative whose primary task will be to intelligently pitch their platform and converse with the press and the public why bother with a talent category? If all they are doing is going to react to the changes in culture why don't they just get rid of it.
10
So you have to be slim in order to be a quality person? What does "discipline" have to do with being thin? Weight is not always a matter of "calories in and out." Women, especially, struggle with illnesses which can make it very difficult to achieve/maintain that ideal weight. You do realize, I hope, that wonderful, intelligent, beautiful women come in all shapes and sizes.
This need to be thin and attractive(even if it's a low score category--it's still necessary according to pageant rules) in order to be considered "the best" is ridiculous. What if one of those winners is also a secret bulimic? Not so nice in that case, is it?
7
I think it will take a few of years to see how this plays out to a national audience. The show has been a ratings nightmare over the last several years as they continue to tinker with the format and moving it from Atlantic City to Las Vegas and back. They might ultimately come to the conclusion the whole concept no longer makes sense and they will take it off the airwaves altogether.
I have heard that rationalization for decades, and it doesn't hold water. It's not just about bikinis or physical fitness. It's about physical beauty, period. You know how I know? Just look at all the Miss America winners for the past 50 years. When they start awarding the crown to a woman who isn't utterly, strikingly beautiful, then maybe I'll start believing you. But until then, it's clear that talent, physical fitness and intelligence be darned. Those things do have some input into the score, but if you ain't pretty, you ain't gonna win Miss America, so it's a beauty contest.
Now, having bashed away at you, you know what? I am totally okay with the fact that it's a beauty contest. Why can't we just accept it for what it is?
1
Good news. Not far enough.
On a related note: Does this warrant a breaking news banner?
My teeth are on edge nearly every day wondering what awaits us with this president. I rely on the NYT to discern what is truly 'breaking news' so I can determine when I need to step away from a meeting or divert my attention for immediate understanding.
This is important, but not for immediate consumption.
19
It's a beauty pageant that doesn't judge on appearance. I'm short, not really pretty, but I am reasonably smart. You think I could win if I had my IQ tattooed across my less-than ample bosom? And if I wanted something other than world peace?
17
Katherine, yours is the best comment! I'm still laughing.
2
It’s about time !
8
"We are not going to judge you on your outward appearance"?
What utterly duplicitous double-speak nonsense!
But since beauty pageants are allegedly no longer about physical appearance, how about having the likes Trump, Roger Ailes, and Sam Haskell, parade on-stage in tiny Speedos... to the catcalls of the crowd... and preform "feats of skill" like playing "Jail to the Chief" on a kazoo using their noses? That parade of talent would get great ratings!
8
Let's not make this out to be more than it is; this is all about money. This will only end when there is no money in it.
10
Too bad it has become so serious. As a man it is disingenuous to think I don't look at women's bodies in the similar way I look at mine: Am I fit? Attractive to women? On a physical level?
I have a mind and I am an animal. Both apsects are part of who I am and being an animal in outlook is fun; at least my mind tells my body it is and if it didn't I would have never been the father or four similar thinking sons.
I like my body and I like women's bodies as well. I always thought they liked and enjoyed mine as I liked and enjoyed theirs.
9
They should also have American pageants for--
1. Miss (Ms!) body beautiful--judged on sex appeal in America at the time. That's nothing to be ashamed of.
But remember that looks are not performance. "Beauty is what beauty does" etc.
2. Miss (Ms!) fitness--judged on athletic ability by the standards of the day.
3. Miss (Ms!) IQ--judged however "intelligence" is judged--making clear what it is exactly.
Each one should also review past ones--as The Times photo reveals--the standards change remarkably.
1
There is nothing wrong with the recognition and appreciation of beauty.
Pretending otherwise or trying to force others to lie and do so is an initiative which will only end in tears.
16
It’s not appreciating beauty!! It’s sexual exploitation!!
Several respondents made that clear. The origins of the contest were to entice more people to extend the beach season! They didn’t try to get more beach attendance with a spelling contest!!
Miss America is all about ‘sex sells’!
I'm glad the pageant is on the wane and would like to see an immediate end to beauty pageants for children and teens.
But I also understand that good looks are a form of power. I have one friend who recognized this and put her appearance to work in the modeling world when she was 15 and earned a small fortune by the time she was 25. She used that money to finance her education and build a career on. Her lovely face is a form of currency and it bought her financial independence, and the freedom to live life on her own terms. In our efforts to level the playing field let's not insist that women give up power in the process.
7
Todd, I am glad that you know a woman who has parlayed her good looks into a lucrative career. What will happen to her when those looks fade and sag? Will she have prepared a Plan B for herself? Will she be able to parlay her intelligence, business and/or creative skills into a later career as well?
I know too many attractive women whose good looks are more a curse than a blessing. They talk about constant unwanted sexual attention if not downright sexual abuse from an early age. Admiration of someone’s physical beauty is not always what it’s cracked up to be.
1
The whole thing needs to end - this and all the feeder "competitions" that flow into it. I was in a coffee shop in middle-PA yesterday and saw a poster for the "Misses" categories - from "Teeny" 3-5, to 6-10, 11-13 etc up to 18 - what is going on when we want to ogle little girls all the way to 18 and then they could aspire to Miss America so we can examine their bodies anew - this teaches them that their bodies are the most important thing about them. The talent competition could be just that, talent, and it could be inclusive for both sexes. I am an executive woman and have a daughter who cannot help but be influenced by these body-shaming activities and stereotypes as she grows. No amount of role modeling can completely reverse it. This type of exploitation, by commercial interests and yes, parents, makes me nauseous.
27
The reprobate Trump well be so disappointed.
3
Wait, what? If we stop judging women by their appearance, how will we determine their value and place in society? This is a slippery slope, friends. Next thing you know we'll stop judging people by the color of their skin and sexual orientation....
It seems a good majority of men in the world are driven by some pretty twisted, pathological, disordered views about women. And because these views have been normalized and integrated into our lives, women have been conditioned to accept and participate in myriad injustices against them.
Men put women in objectified extremes -- metaphorically and literally parading them around in beauty pageants or Burqas. Same difference. Just ways of controlling women. Think about it... Men are extremely disproportionately in control of the business of the world (corporations, laws, government, religion).
Side note: Maybe these men who put women in Burqas should be forced to wear chastity belts and give the key to their wives/ mothers if they can't control themselves.
14
I’m sorry but is the Ms.America competition now going to be the equivalent of the Fulbright Scholarship? I think not. If they were truly commited to elevating the status of women beyond object they would either allow boys/trans folks to also compete or just do away with this antiquated contest all together.
2
Reader X, very well said.
4
Julie, that was my point exactly. End the stupid contests altogether, or at least realize what the beauty contest are, why they exist, and who is profiting from them. Also, no false equivalencies to scholarly, academic or merit-based awards needed.
1
Gretchen Carlson: "... judging women... It's gonna be what comes out of their mouth that we're interested in, when they talk about their social impact initiatives."
It's a wonderful decision! Finally! Of course we are very interested in their social impact initiatives. Thank you!
3
Bert Parks would be mortified. Better off dead (pageant and Bert)
2
Will the loss of the swimsuit competition mean Trump stays away from the contest? If he cannot ogle the ladies in their dressing rooms getting into their one piece suits he will be disappointed. Sad!
6
A sad day for humanity, and for women especially.
The female has always played on their physique and sexuality. And appearance.
Not primarily for sex, but importantly to attract the opposite sex. Why you may ask?
Necessarily to secure the best mate for their offspring and to provide protection for themselves and their offspring.
Look closer and you will find that women like to dress up and flaunt their best body parts, not only for the benefit of the opposite sex, but to outcompete other women.
Eliminating the swimsuit competition in the Miss America contest, won’t eliminate women and men’s desire to look good and to flaunt their bodies and sexuality.
15
of course not, but if it is such a natural desire, why does it such public support as swimsuit competition?
3
If they were serious, they would scrap the entire pageant,
29
Well there goes the male viewership. which means there goes the price per minute for a commercial. Which means there goes making money off the pageant. Which means maybe (and, finally!!) There She Goes......
11
Scrap the whole for women only thing - include all sexes. -
6
Will make an already boring and pointless spectacle a total snorefest for sure!
13
Now, the next step is to get rid of the Miss American Pageant, altogether.
10
Proof of the Me Too movemebt’s staying power and adaptability, beyond just outing boorish celebrities.
3
I'm thrilled the Miss America contest will now focus on talent, intelligence and ideas. That should take them 30 minutes to resolve.
1. If one wants to focus on talent why not enter a talent contest and not a beauty contest?
2. Contestants' intelligent levels are immediately exposed for if they had any intelligence they would not enter a beauty contest that tries to measure intelligence.
3. After saying a good idea is to end world famine, or to end poverty or to eliminate discrimination, what is there left to say?
When the Miss America contest has a men's division, or an "X" division, then it will have joined the revolution in the U.S.
6
LOL As if that move is going to change what Miss America represents: an America obsessed with superficial, physical appearance, "beauty" over brains, and a false sense of patriotism.
11
Shut the whole process down and cut this anachronism out of Trump’s grasp.
7
Does anyone else have ads for skimpy swimsuits running all through this article?
2
It takes a proficiency in logical gymnastics to comprehend how competitors in a Miss-Anything pageant will not be judged on outward appearance - and specifically, in comparison to an ideal rooted in male-dominated culture.
“Hmm, but there’s too much money to be made here, must be a way to fix it.” Include transgender competitors, or even men?
Or maybe, parading anyone around on a stage before an ogling audience, while they’re rated on the most superficial of criteria, is kind of a stupid idea to begin with.
5
Bravo to the pageant. Now, how to deal with Madison Ave's objectification of women.
3
OK, if is no longer a 'Beauty Contest', stop referring to the part were the contestant engage some amateurish hoofing and twirling as the "Talent Competition". The sort of 'talent' expected from pretty and shapely young women.
1
This now becomes the most absurd requirement to observe FAKE science. We are to now ignore the fine tuned athletic bodies...of males and females? We are truly told to ignore what has been acknowledged since the beginning of history? I happen to be a mundane average looking human, who never got or gets a single look. But, I understand what sculpting looks like, and appreciate it in others. I have never felt threatened. Those people exist, and most have worked hard to refine their sport, dance, and even, shall we say, posing. I am now told that it does not matter. Well, unfortunately or fortunately, it is not fake. It is as old as the history alluded to. Some of it is visual, some hormone, some pheromone. To do what is demanded, now, in this climate, we need to go back to radio, have no video at all, and submit the engineering plans and let them be judged on their merits.
10
Who watches anymore? Females and wannabes.
4
I don't watch it and don't really care.
But...
what is so inherently wrong with beauty contest?
Why everything needs to be a Jeopardy or Spelling Bee...?
If someone doesn't like wrestling they don't need to watch it... and mixed martial arts is gory and dirty...
Why some opinion is more valuable than others?
Why the Left needs to stuff its PC down everyone's throat and make it a standard?
There far less harm in watching Miss America with bathing suit contest than legal recreational marijuana...
10
ya had me until the marijuana thing
2
Well. Great photo. but still sexist. I see no men. As long as it is Miss America it should be offensive to all. Why not just call it America and drop the phoney facade. Let the men, and all the rest of us in, and figure out what it should be all about. If you can find a non sexist reason to hold this event fine. But as is likely, without sexism the entire enterprise collapses, be honest for once and abandon it. It's an insult to all Americans when viewed from that perspective.
3
So instead they will be asked to take an IQ exam and perhaps some sort of standardised test? They will still judge them on the basis of their looks, just in other dress clothes.
2
As a child of the 70s, I was not allowed to watch the Miss America Pageant. My mom raised me in a culture of respect and did not want me to judge myself or others based on appearance. Thankful today for her wisdom.
4
Skimpy cheerleader outfits are next, followed by the purpose of having cheerleaders at all.
13
You can put lipstick on a pig but it's still a pig. There is no way to sell a beauty contest as "empowerment" to women or anyone else.
The point of a beauty pageant is to judge on the outside. The silly talent shows and softball questions are even more insulting.
32
So, which radio network will be broadcasting the Miss America pageant this year?
46
Dump the whole thing or when do we start to hide the faces so we can Focus on the smart brains?
7
Finally!! The quality of a woman's MIT Geology Doctoral Dissertation will matter in the final rounds of judging !!
11
It's astonishing how very different in size and shape the women in 1921 compare to the contestants of today. They were tall, short and average height. And none looks starved. Quite the opposite. Today's participants look like a cheerleading squad.
Refreshing.
4
Why is #metoo not decrying this type of nonsense in 2018? Swimsuit or not, it still treats women like they deserve special prizes for being women. Add Valentine's Day, bridal showers, lavish weddings, and the whole range of princess fantasy products to the boycott list. Mind you, the economy would collapse.
10
You’re right, male fantasies are much better. Lets add porn, fantasy sports, and video games to the boycott list.
I didn't say male fantasies were better, not did I imply that.
Yes but your point can never appease feminists’ need for outrage.
If you're not going to have a swimsuit competition, then why bother having a pageant? Weren't you paying attention when Playboy dropped their nudes and Sports Illustrated considered doing away with their swimsuit edition? While you're at it, just rename the whole thing "Ms. Smart America" that will really pull in the viewers.
9
Welcome to the 21st century. Actually, welcome to the post-WW II era, when women demanded to compete in many realms based on merit and substance rather than appearance. Thank you.
2
I say keep the swimsuit competition but make the suits themselves more modest. Not like the outfits of the 1921 pageant but something that resembles the swimsuits of the 1950s -60s. Find a happy medium and try it out.
3
I agree. Nothing wrong with a one-piece.
I must really be out of the loop--the last time I even glanced at a pageant on TV the women all wore one-piece suits. I had no idea they could even wear bikinis!
Regardless of one's opinion of beauty pageants, the photo accompanying this article is wonderful! They actually look like real live women, as opposed to Barbies.
5
The male people of the basket are outraged!
Trailer parks are abuzz.
The Whiter House suggests nurses and waitress uniforms be substituted for bathing suits.
3
Donald will surely be disappointed.
6
“We are not going to judge you on your outward appearance” in this beauty pageant.
What?!
Why even still have this antiquated contest?
47
True.
5
Good!! It's high time we call an end to this senseless (human-as) horse-trading event!
2
What's next? Track-and-field competitions banning stopwatches because "we won't judge you on how fast you can run"?
Ridiculous things like this is what will get Trump re-elected.
17
What do you mean, judging on how fast someone runs?
All people are equal. None can possibly be faster than any other.
5
Eliminating outdated and sexist parts of our society means Trump gets elected? This is such backwards thinking. So when the president of the US is a racist bigoted sex offender we have to just play along in order to appease his ignorant and hateful base? No and never.
1
"Pageant that solely judges on personal appearance will no longer judge on personal appearance"
6
John Oliver had a very good point when he covered Miss America: The disturbing part is that Miss America really is the largest provider of scholarships for women. He recommended changing that by donating to scholarship funds that decide based on academic excellence instead of baton twirling. The specific organizations he suggested supporting:
Society of Women Engineers: http://societyofwomenengineers.swe.org/
Jeanette Rankin Women’s Scholarship Fund: http://www.rankinfoundation.org/
Patsy Mink Foundation: http://www.patsyminkfoundation.org/
As far as Miss America goes, there seems very little of beauty pageants in general that are not completely toxic.
131
Why a comedian' opinion governs for an entire country of viewers... is a far more disturbing question than a "questionable" effort to provide scholarships to better than average looking young ladies...
5
I guess Miss America will find out soon enough if people are willing to watch just the untalent competition and the "deep questions" segment.
15
I probably won't look up from perusing the articles in Playboy.
5
People feel ashamed about this exercise in focusing on women's beauty or appearance, but why this one particularly (I am asking)? Our culture is full of images, magazines, models, etc. Presumably not every judgment that someone is nice looking is blameworthy, at least not yet. My intuition is that there is something rightly queasiness-inducing about the swimsuit competition, but what exactly is it?
6
Beauty pageant. Not going to judge the outward appearance? So its not a beauty pageant. Its a talent show. I never liked to watch anyway. I do not really have an opinion. My wife however has made me watch, and the swimsuits...I suffered through it.
9
If they pull this off, it will be one of the most radical and successful brand repositionings in history. They are jettisoning literally the very core of their brand, and trying something else. Long odds, but if this works, wow.
6
Without the swimsuit competition, there is no reason to watch. It was boring before, but I agree with Mikael from Lyons, IL, that it will now die.
11
After Ms Carlson's terrible experience at the office in past years I don't blame her for trying this. But I'm not sure the Pageant will survive without above average good looks from the contestants. But give it a try.
2
Hmmm. I suppose you could run Miss America as a quiz show, awarding the scholarships to the most clever, sort of like Jeopardy. And you could run the talent section like one of the many TV talent shows. You could have a wet T-shirt contest to replace the bathing suits -- easy to find that on the web. And you could have a contest where dresses, makeup and hair were the criteria, like the modeling shows. The elements of the Miss America contest can be found in hundreds of TV shows and web pages today; it's their combination into one contest which is an anachronism.
7
The Miss America Pageant will lose millions of viewers, then lose advertisers. The pageant will die.
8
Thank 'God'.
9
Does anyone really care/watch/follow this pageant anymore?
Does anyone really think this will stop women from being judged by their looks?
Talk about FAKE NEWS!
9
This “Me Too” movement is getting ridiculous! Than why call it a beauty pageant? If I want to see talent, I can watch “America’s got talent”. I think they will loose a lot of their audience.
12
What about their audience will they “loose”?
If the audience watches only to see scantily clad women, the whole enterprise should have been demolished decades ago. The swimsuit portion has always been shameful.
3
This isn’t a bad thing, but aren’t beauty pageants supposed to be entirely based on outward appearance? Seems a bit hypocritical to me
12
The entire enterprise is a farce and needs to end.
13
Seriously? How about just eliminating demeaning female competitions altogether? To get a sense of just how degrading these pageants are (changing its name to "competition" changes nothing) imagine, if you can, a male competition in the same vein.
43
A Christian youth organization I run actually does this. We call it the Mr Christmas Tree Pageant and hold it in December. High school boys compete in outlandish activities in their bathing suits and it’s the best fun we have all year. The parody demonstrates how absurd this vestige of sexism is. See, not all of us Bible-thumpers are ignorant and stoic :)
7
Don’t take the bait making culture wars over this organization’s image management. Precious little oxygen in the media has been spent on the neglect of hurricane deaths in Puerto Rico. Especially as the Roseanne scandal elbowed out coverage of that and so many life and death issues.
8
Oh, good. Maybe I'll win next year.
109
LOL!! I love your comment. Perhaps the Mr. America contest will judge me not on my protruding pectorals and bulging biceps but my personality, charm, and wit?
9
I’ll vote for you! You sound intelligent, witty and humble. Go for it!
13
This is good. Now, if the New York Times stops printing cover photographs for their magazines like the the following two recent examples, we will be making progress:
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/14/t-magazine/natalie-portman-jonathan-s...
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/09/21/magazine/voyages-issue-ph...
Both articles show gratuitous sexuality of women, that is sexuality unrelated to the content of the articles. As best I recall, the first example was prominently used in advertising by the Times. The first link is to an article about Natalie Portman as a film director, not an actress. Ms Portman is not wearing any pants, just a bikini bottom. Some of the photos are provocatively posed.
The second article is about vacations, and shows a fully nude young woman vacationing in Estonia. The photo is from the rear, but the woman is rotated such that one breast and nipple are visible.
It is a judgement call whether these photos are appropriate, or whether they contribute to the sexualization of women, like the Miss America bathing suit competition. A strong case can be made, I think, that photos like these cross the line.
12
I agree with you on the Portman photos, but not on the Estonian vacation photos. The Portman photos are posed, etc., as you say. The vacation photos are documenting people on vacation. Their culture embraces nudity and comfort with human bodies. I would say that the two articles are actually diametrically opposed. If we had more of the less prudish attitude of the Estonians, we might have less gratuitous, objectifying photography.
5
The Mona Lisa seems a little suggestive as well, and the Ecstasy of Saint Teresa is positively scandalous.
Let's purge ourselves of anything that hints of human sexuality. (The David too!)
6
And a strong case can be made that a woman's sexuality is also a part of her identity which should be celebrated. Natalie Portman is a physically beautiful, attractive woman, and I, a fellow woman who recognizes that and has also long enjoyed her acting, think she has the right to display her fine body. What the Times should do is to start printing more/as many photos of fine-looking men, too--but why stop there? Less than perfect bodies are also interesting to look at. My point: you can appreciate a person's mind and other qualities while also enjoying the sight of his or her body. And we shouldn't be ashamed of, or hiding, our sexuality. But, for the record, that uninhibited woman in Estonia seemed to just be enjoying the freedom of being unclothed in nature. Estonians (and many neighboring Scandinavians) do not have the naked body phobia of so many Americans.
1
Good. Now maybe the whole sorry enterprise will die - especially if it deprived "conservatives" something else to squawk about...
4
“People actually like the talent part of the competition,” she said. Yeah, and I used to buy Playboy magazine for the articles.
10
A beauty pageant that no longer cares about beauty?
Apparently they're scrapping the honesty portion of the competition too.
11
I haven't watched this since I was about 10. The entire thing should be scrapped- there are plenty of legit forums for women to demonstrate their brains and talents. Not to mention dozens of taken-related reality shows. In reading the Twitter post feedback, I was amazed at how many men seem to watch (when I was a kid 'real men' couldn't be caught dead watching beauty pageants) and make clear it's only for the bikinis. I guess that serves to justify this move- the pageant folks want to believe they are empowering women; the 'audience' seems to be men looking for what they can find on any beach or in the SI swimsuit edition.
2
From way back humans have celebrated female and male beauty, and the predominant concept of beauty in both western and eastern culture has been the healthy and lithe/virile body. There is no 300 lb Adonis or Venus. So if you are not going to have a beauty contest, have a spelling bee.
19
Societies have various interpretations of beauty and some have included, on occasion, what we would now consider overweight even obese people.
For example, Tang Dynasty period in China there were "fat" courtesans that were sculpted out of clay as ideal forms of beauty.
For another example, the royal family of tranditional Hawaii were fed to make them large and carried around so to not lose the weight.
For a third example: Sumo wrestlers. They are sex symbols in modern Japan.
For a fourth example: Rubenescque women in Ruben's paintings. They were sex symbols of their day
I'm sure that there are countless more example
2
TED--never saw a Rubens masterpiece, did you?
What's the purpose of this antediluvian pageant anyway in the year 2018 ?
It's demeaning to all women.
If some 1950's era Sad Sack men need to see such a spectacle, let them tune in to pornography channels so their intellectual interests can be properly addressed.
Put these wretched beauty pageants into the dustbin of male chauvinist history and move forward.
157
So you're okay with pornography channels but against the Miss America pageant? Which is more demeaning to women??
5
Pornography at least doesn't pretend to be something else; it's clear what it is.
Beauty contests pretend to be beauty contests, when they're just pornography-lite.
Transparency is important.
1
These "pony shows" are beyond bizarre and antiquated at this point in our social and cultural evolution. They contribute to the perpetuation of the both overt and covert sexism (in this example, objectification), which
demeans and hurts us all, women and men alike.
6
I think the president perked up when he heard the pageant was removing the swimsuits. And then he realized the women would still be clothed, so that must have been a bummer.
If it’s not about scantily-clad attractive women, it does make you wonder what the pageant should be about. No doubt the pleasing arrangement of facial features has always been an advantage. (Or that’s what they tell me. Believe me, I don’t know from personal experience.)
Maybe it should be about women who managed to get an education even when they couldn’t afford it, or who endured years of men ogling and taking advantage of them or possibly being the target of unwanted groping by disgusting old orange-headed men.
Or how about a pageant of women who accused high government officials of rape? There would be enough material there for a whole season of lurid TV.
80
Though this decision is long overdue, I am sure I am not alone in wondering why the pageant should judge people any differently than the rest of us - "on outward appearances". I bet that is not changing any time soon.
4
So Cosmo Kramer gets to head the talent competition?
3
But President Trump can still go into the changing room to get his thrills. He is above the law.
115
Mental trait of a woman has taken over physical trait in the history of USA's women contest. May be this decision would lead to witness a woman president as the successor to Mr.trump. The woman could be Mrs.Hilary Clinton,Mrs.Obama or
Mrs.Ivanka Trump.
Well, yes, I suppose that's good..... but frankly, I'd have preferred that they end the walking in of "Owners" on the nude and semi-nude contestants.
4
Diana Moon Glampers would be so proud!
1
This is what social evolution looks like. May the long list of to-dos continue to be checked off.
11
Ridiculous. It’s a beauty pageant. I predict it will be out of business in less than five years now.
53
We can only hope.
13
No football, no beauty pageants, but we’ll still be able to ‘watch’ a school shooting a week.
1
Well, that leaves America struggling with just HOW do you JUDGE a woman?
Dear me.
7
maybe we can judge them the same way we do men, by their accomplishments.
4
You could have figured out another way to keep Trump away from the contestants!
7
What a ridiculous politically correct decision. Moving to the one piece from the bikini was bad, this is just awful.
What an incredibly boring society we are creating.
8
Too little. Too late. Dump the entire pageant industry. It is completely exploitative of women.
69
Entering a beauty contest is not obligatory. If it is "exploitative", I guess only those with a masochistic desire to be exploited enter them.
1
Doubtful any women with some extra fat on her body can win the competition based just on her brains and personality or will they still need to be 36-25-36. These kinds of competitions need to stop as they treat women like a dog in a dog shows being paraded for their appearances.
7
Today 36 25 36 is considered fat.
2
Good! And good riddance.
Mostly objectifying women.
1
"We're not going to judge you on your outer appearance"-- who are they trying to kid?
10
We are not going to judge you on your outward appearance,” Gretchen Carlson, a former Fox News anchor ... Really?? So, are you also doing away with the evening gown competition, the fake-baked sun-tanned skin, the false eyelashes and caked-on makeup, the duct-tape-assisted breasts, the sky-high heels, the always-straightened and overly sprayed hairstyles,...? Gretchen, somehow I just don't buy it (and I don't watch this cattle show, either!)
126
Let’s not forget spreading vaseline on one’s front teeth, so that one’s lips never stick to the teeth--smoother smile.
or
Spraying benzoin, (a medical product used to make dressings stick better to a post-surgical patient) over one’s buttocks so that the bottom of the swimsuit doesn’t keep creeping up..you know so that the gal doesn’t have to be constantly tugging down on her suit.
I grew up showing Hereford cattle at the fair. We varnished their hooves to a sheen, braided and bleached their white tails and poofed them out, learned to use grooming tools to create unique patterns in their deep red coats, taught CATTLE to walk on a halter and leash, and pose with feet in perfect position.
Yep! Just like nature intended!
I see absolutely NO difference between judging sides of beef and women.
7
“We are not going to judge you on your outward appearance"... Um, so it's NOT a beauty contest?
10
Maybe they should turn the whole thing into a public-speaking contest where contestants wear pantsuits and comfortable flats. Now that should increase viewership.
18
You would prefer women continue to worry about how they appear (to “viewers”) than what they can do? Perhaps you’re so concerned about the aesthetics of these competitions that you’re calling on men to fill the void with their scantily clad bodies?
5
It started, I think in 1920, as a chamber of commerce sort of notion to extend the end of the shore season by one week. To get people, as we say in New Jersey "to go down the shore" and spend a few bucks one more week at the end of the summer. It is an artifact from another time. It's heyday was the 1950s. When I worked for the AP in Newark on the Saturday night shift we always had five tapes ready, one for each finalist. And oh boy it mattered and woe to you, if you messed that up or got beat by UPI on getting out the name of the winner with a full story ready to go. But we had an inside track and always got it first and only the reporters who had that knew who it came from.
Papers all over the country held their Sunday fronts, waiting to find out if Miss America was Miss Ohio or Miss Alabama or Miss Whatever State you can name. It was a very big deal from the 1940s to at least the mid to late 1970s, especially in the 1950s with Burt (Bert?) Parks crooning "There She Goes..."
Then it wasn't. And it isn't.
Times change and it's long since time there were no beauty pageants -- all of which owe their existence to a late summer boardwalk promotion in Atlantic City back in the day, that day 100 years ago.
5
Idiotic. Are people today so shallow and fragile that they can’t appreciate beauty in whatever context it may come in.
11
This event should not be televised at all.
Each contestant should write an essay and submit their academic record. The judges should base their decision on paper alone.
This is about scholarships after all.
The actual pageant can consist of the essays being read aloud by a computer with academic transcripts being scanned and displayed in the background.
6
How about using the bathing suit contest to showcase and celebrate a broad range of body types - all of which are are beautiful. That might well do more do challenge today's beauty fascism, and show young women that there is not only one beauty standard.
7
I have had the pleasure of knowing several beauty queens through happenstance, and have found that they are summarily against decisions like this.
The thinking is simple - intelligence, while certainly malleable within a range, is a talent. A skill largely inherent in nature that the bearer can use to their advantage. Competitions of intelligence are celebrated.
Physical appearance, meanwhile, is a talent as well. It is dependent largely on nature, like intelligence. The beauty queens that I knew (Miss MD and Miss CA) worked harder than almost anyone I've ever met to ensure that they were in the top condition of their lives for their competitions. Like the athletes that I competed against in my own career, they wanted to be their best.
Moves like this ignore the voices of those actually being "objectified". Those who are using both their talents and their capacity for hard work to seize the opportunities afforded to them.
While I personally do not tune in to the competition, I cannot help but feel for the ladies who have given so much to achieve their goals.
16
There are plenty of athletic competitions for women. The pageant will be just fine without women in bikinis.
6
I find the claim that contestants will no longer be judged by their appearances very hard to believe. But it's about time they did away with the swimsuit event.
6
Beauty contests are inherently discriminatory & exploitative. As are most contests. It is time to end all beauty pageants & contests, and replace them with something like Jeopardy/The Voice or a hybrid thereof.
13
It took a woman todo the right thing
7
This brief sentence says essentially that human males are inherently untrustworthy and immoral. Half of the human beings on the planet, no good according to you. Not helpful, not true, but it makes you feel superior to men. Enjoy.
3
These contests, if they can be called that, are anachronistic displays of patriarchal dominance, long since outdated.
211
Long overdue. Can we also address child beauty pageants while we're at it?
298
Now THAT is seriously the worst. I was part of an online group of women that included a mom who was very seriously into that. When members of the group questioned her motives, she angrily replied that people who are against child beauty pageants "have ugly children". I'll never forget that comment. I believe child pageants are illegal in France; time to catch up America.
88
When I think of child beauty pageants a picture of poor Jon Benet Ramsey comes to mind. While I don't blame the parents for her death I have to wonder if the unknown creep who murdered her picked her out while watching these "beauty" pageants. These children are dressed like mini adults--no doubt pedophiles love these shows.
14
Miss America will now be chosen for how nice and politically correct they can answer a series of essays.
Takes a bit of the fun out of it.
17
*says a man
9
They should have to hide their faces too. Let's go all out. Also, they should be hooked up to a polygraph with streaming results shown to the audience. Question: Why do you want to he Miss America? Answer: To help others... (ding ding ding!..) I mean, to get attention and make lots of money...a movie role, a modeling job.. (zip zip zip )
12
Does anyone really watch these pageants these days?
10
God Bless the end of the Miss America Pageant.
24
It's about time!
6
Ok. Now end the pageant.
175
The ones who enter Beauty Pagents do it precisely to show off their bodies. Just like Playboy Bunnies.
Never watch the Pageant.
61
MO: Actually it’s all about the money for the contestants and the bunnies. Many young women have made a career out of being Miss America, I say more power to them, God gave them a gift why shouldn’t they use it. The whole thing is silly.
Should we disallow young women if they are to intelligent as that being an obvious advantage in the Q. and A. Part of the contest? How about disallowing all blue eyed blondes, that appears too well “Elitist or Aryan”, ugh certainly not in fashion today. I believe there’s another contest for Miss Black America. Get a grip folks, it’s a BEAUTY CONTEST, I say let them enjoy their youth and their beauty, nobodies forcing anyone to watch, personally I never have much preferring the beauty and talent of women in a ballet for instance or a fine movie, the best of which Ive seen in years is “ Phantom Thread” where three enormously attractive people(plus a large cast)mesmerize you for two hours, much better than a “ beauty contest”.
2
If we're no longer going to be judging women on how they look, then these pageants will need to be radically re-considered. Will it be a talent show? A public speaking competition? Either way, changes are coming.
20
Seriously, this has gone way to far. Its a BEAUTY PAGEANT, its not a Nobel prize competition, or the Olympics ( which, by the way, have pretty skimpy costumes)
When a beauty pageant contestant doesn't have to be judged on beauty (or what is specified as beauty) - then we have gone over the edge. Let a 300 lb women enter - ok, and if she wins over someone smaller, healthier, more in tune then so be it. If she loses then accept that as well..... but really.
94
Where's the beauty pageant of men?
72
I don't know, where is it? Would you like one, I'm sure you could put one together but that wasn't the point. The point is, The Miss America Pageant is a Beauty pageant, always has been sinec 1921 and the swim suit competition is part of it. If you don't like beauty pageants then you have a great option - don't watch it.
1
You seem to miss the point... it's the fact that it's a 'beauty pageant.' As for fitness, if you really believe that's the point then let them add a fitness competition. Thin doesn't equal fit... as evidenced by what I see at the gym every day. And my guess is that most guys who watch this (without prodding from a wife or GF) couldn't complete in any male competition based on looks or fitness.
17
Scrapping the swimsuit competition is a good first start. Next: Scrap the whole ridiculous enterprise.
388
Local contests are often about awarding scholarships to young women for their knowledge and skills.
No need to scrap it. Just make it more meaningful.
8
A beauty pageant which will not be judged on the outward appearance of the contestants? What? That is like the International Olympic Committee announcing that the 100 yard dash in the Olympics will no longer be judged by the speed of the contestants but instead by how well the runners play the clarinet.
259
Welcome to the snowflake pageant.
9
The point is the entire notion of a beauty pageant is misogynistic and obsolete. You're also implying that you can't understand someone's beauty without seeing them almost naked, which is a pretty disgusting way of thinking.
16
I really DO want to hear my Olympic runners AND my Pageant contestants play clarinet!!
11
Do the contestants still have to wear form fitting gowns, makeup, and have their hair all gussied up? Then yeah, they're being judged on their physical appearance. Who are they kidding?
207
I don't understand why judging a female contestant's appearance in the swimsuit component of the peagant is so terrible! It's one element of the competition, that consists of other factors! Additionally, I've never met a woman who doesn't appreciate being attractive! This change is silly, and over the top with this political correctness!!!
75
And yet human males and females always have judged each other by their looks, height, success, and all sorts of other factors. And they always will. Beauty exists. There's nothing wrong with celebrating it.
Just calling something demeaning or misogynist or pornographic doesn't make it so.
38
It's called evolution, not political correctness, Counter Measures.
Having a pageant that judges human beings partly pr predominantly by their physical looks is demeaning to women.
It's a childish, sophomoric meat market competition and the calendar has outgrown this ancient act of orchestrated misogyny.
Let America's cavemen find another avenue to treat their pornographic fantasies.
83
Thanks Lilo! While he often makes poignant and succinct comments, Socrates is not a know it all.
My bet is that when ratings plummet and endanger the whole for-profit enterprise, the organizers will quietly reintroduce the swimsuit competition, but you know, in a "respectful" way.
81
The Miss America Pageant is like Sears. Both served a useful purpose, a positive & rewarding experience, but like most things, they’ve run their course & are doomed for the trash heap. The interest waned and few Sears’s stores remain & the ratings of the last two Miss America pageants were dismal.
The recent harassment lawsuit is a major distraction but to be clear – the allure, attraction & excitement this pageant once generated has lost its appeal for decades. Many hundreds of women who competed in hopes of winning either their home state or Miss America title will lose out. The scholarship money is significant. People do roll their eyes if a pageant winner lists her title on a resume, but the truth is these pageants have given many women a foundation for learning: confidence, self-assuredness, remaining cool & collected under pressure, formulating ideas & answers on a myriad of topics.
My sister was a pageant finalist when Terry Ann Meeuwsen won the 1973 Miss Wisconsin & Miss America pageants. She learned much from contestants & female coaches. She still talks about that positive & rewarding experience. I was & continue to be proud of her.
However, these pageants aren’t a “cultural revolution”. They are a snapshot in history which no longer captivates audiences. If the swimsuit competition is being removed, why not remove the male judges as well but then, the entire enterprise will terminate soon enough, perhaps the same time Sears closes their final store.
40