He’s better than German leaders
4
I just love these comments from people who apparently have never been to Europe, claiming there's "an immigrant crime wave".
Maybe it's because the majority of Americans is too poor to even leave their own county, much less the country.
6
I live in two European countries and yes, we have an immigrant crime wave. Believe me, the press here, as shown most conspicuously by the cover-up in the German press about the Cologne New Year’s eve mass rapes, routinely underemphasises immigrant crime, out of political correctness and political expediency.
6
Why does the NYTimes, WashPost, and other MSM outlets called these Far-Right Movements in the US and Europe “Populist” just call them fascist.
Oh wait they’ll just use the phrase “populist” for people like Bernie Sanders in the US and Jeremy Corbyn the UK and people will just think oh this guys are Right-Wing “Russian” compromised cooks. While in Bernie Sanders’ case is a New Deal Liberal and Corbyn is a dyed in the wool Social Democrat.
4
The first point that needs to be made is that there is no historical tradition (centuries back) of democratic society in Germany or Eastern Europe, so democracies that emerged in the 20th century are not steeped in tradition and hence fragile.
The second point is that in both Europe and the USA, a deep social malaise has set in that is undermining both globalism and democracy. This arises from the economic and social insecurity many voters feel as a result of technological change, open borders and competition from emerging economies.
These are exactly the conditions in which worthless demagogues like Orban, Trump and their ilk can thrive. The lesson of history is that theirs is a path to strife and destruction. People who fall for their evil and simplistic ideologies are voting to move their life conditions from the frying pan to the fire. They are very adept at riding and manipulating discontent, while those who still believe in democracy and international cooperation are bewildered, stunned and haven't determined how to focus a message that repairing the problems of democracy and globalism is far preferable to destroying them. They should do so soon, otherwise we will find ourselves back in the world of the 1930s and 1940s. No progressive human being should want that.
6
Two comments:
First, this squabble between Orban and the EU is a fight between two competing visions of right wing politics: one more internationalist, one more nationalist. Both Merkel and Orban are strongly pro-capitalist, and both have the support of factions of oligarchs who care little for democracy. Merkel's oligarchs care slightly more, which makes them slightly more admirable, but we are all fools if we think that they wouldn't discard democracy in an instant if that's what it took to protect their profits.
Second, a cynic might argue that the reason why Eastern Europe's oligarchs are so steadfastly opposed to immigration is because immigration to Germany and France means that labor costs in Germany and France are lower than they would be otherwise, which means that Western European firms will be less likely to move production to Eastern Europe (where they would be forced to partner with the local oligarchs in order to have access). At the same time, there will be fewer orders for products from Eastern European firms which have been made less cost-competitive thanks to the immigrants, and less investment in Eastern Europe overall, which will hurt those local oligarchs' bottom lines.
So all of this talk about "culture" and "national values" is really just a cover for business interests to whip up popular support for policies that have more to do with investment than "the people."
3
Who are these oligarchs that support Merkel?
3
Excellent. Not all Europeans want the tidal wave of immigrants that Merkel has unleashed upon the continent. Fight back, Hungary.
6
So you're a fan of what Orban calls an "illiberal democracy"? You don't care so much about free press, separation of powers or human rights? Why wait until Trump has finished his job? Move to Hungary. Sounds like the country of your dreams.
3
Orban’s demagoguery has gone so far as to rehabilitate the WWII fascist leader Horthy as an exceptional statesman. Do you realize Hungary joined Nazi Germany in the Axis and deported over half a million Jews to Auschwitz. There is serious historical amnesia in Hungary about their nation’s complicity in genocide. I’m all for a reasonable migrant and refugee policy in Europe, but not from Orban.
6
When Hungary pulls out of international treaties it has signed, sends its military on lethal interventions in a half dozen other countries, purges its voter rolls of ethnic minorities, provides half as many voting machines per capita in inner city neighborhoods as in suburban ones, incarcerates as high a percentage of its citizens as the US does, and provides its citizens with as little support in health care, education, and income support during unemployment as we do, we can begin to criticize it. Till then we should shut our pie holes and try to get our own house in order.
7
The motivation of Orban is very simple. 300 000-400 000 people crossed Hungary not so long time ago, following the call of Merkel. If it happens again, it would be a catastrophe, especially since now the borders of Austria will be closed. So illegal migrants will stay in Hungary, and turn it into a chaos, as it happened to Greece and Italy. And Orban cannot expect help from the European Union, who clearly want exactly to make that chaos yet in another country.
7
There was a report, I believe on NPR that this right wing rise is occurring mostly in ex-Soviet-dominated territories, and of course the US.
Any data about this?
1
you're leaving out Italy and Austria, which were never Soviet controlled.
2
First Hungary, tomorrow Slovenia, and finally Macedonia!
Seriously, is there something a little weird about the world-bestriding English-language media worrying so much about Hungarian dissent on immigration policy?
The great physicist Freeman Dyson argued in his 1979 book that having one dominant global language for the spread of ideas might prove disastrous for humanity, the way having Ireland wholly dependent upon the potato was a catastrophe in 1846
http://takimag.com/article/choose_your_words_wisely_steve_sailer/print#a...
If massive Muslim migration doesn't prove to be such a great idea for Europe, it could prove a blessing that a few small countries resisted the globalist ruling class's conventional wisdom?
6
I see that its not just we Americans who are poor students of history. When a nation goes down the rabbit hole of right-wing nationalism it will eventually run out of internal enemies. That's when it gets interesting for the neighborhood.
And Europe does have a history of conflict.
1
You should stop trying to condemn ‘populism’ as a negative moment in history. As Benedetto Croce claimed, all meanings and values evolve from historical events as they progress. It is therefore too early to judge this moment in history, especially if you only interpret it in the larger context of what you believe is right: liberal democracy, globalism, and open boarders.
The rise of nation states and nationalism followed the Enlightment of the 18th c. It is again alive and well, following 70 years of globalism and open-boarder consumerism.
We humans are more than what we are forced to consume or believe. Cultural/language/national identities are important parts of who we are, whether liberal politicians and their academic minions want to believe it or not.
7
With 6 corporations owning 90% of the media in the US, why the outrage?
6
The days of mass immigration should have ended in the 1920's when the US dropped legal immigration to under 100,000 per year. There are strong forces in the world who don't want people to have strong national identities or to live middle class lives. Unregulated trade between wealthy countries and poor countries with large populations enslaves the large populations and undermines the middle class. Mass immigration undermines social stability and nullifies the effects of family planning. Why should a European worker who acted responsibly and only had one child welcome an immigrant who had three children in a refugee camp?
14
I don't know why he should. Because we are humans maybe?
2
Yes, Berlin can have all the needy humans on earth, but fly them there. please. No need to come via Italy.
1
Will The Times PLEASE STOP equating "populist" with "right-wing extremist"? It is a horrible distortion of language and it has no historical or linguistic justification whatsoever.
28
Viktor Orban is part of a disturbing trend of democratically elected leaders who think they can do away with press freedom in their country. Fascinatingly, both he, Trump, Putin & to an extent Netanyahu, all birds of a feather, have attempted to do so by tying the press to George Soros, the target of many anti-Semitic conspiracy theories. Hungarian aid groups and NGOs protested today to stop the “Stop Soros,” law, which will also place limits on NGOs and universities. A scary and dark time across the democratic globe.
14
It's barely 50 years ago when their people ran to Western Europe in droves as refugees and here they are now, the sons and daughters of those same Hungarians, exclaiming how a couple of Syrian refugees (who have it far, far worse than their parents and grandparents) destroy their culture. Coming from a country who gave asylum to these East Bloc refugees in search of a better life, I think we might have made a mistake then.
9
There are some differences: (i) In 1956, Hungarians went to the next safe country, Austria, and did not start to wonder around the World. They were legally refugees. A people moving now across Europe are not refugees, they are economic migrants.. (ii) Hunagrian stayed where they were told to stay, and did not fight government authorities. (iii) They told their name, they did not become criminals, they did not rape women. (iv) They did not go to countries where state help was large, but rather to countries where they could work. (v) The contributed a lot the societies they arrived at. Often they were very well educated, and they were working hard. (In fact, old and sick refugees from 1956 had problems to find a country.) (vi) They were not running around with knifes and bombs. But most importantly: from the legal point of view, the Hungarians from 1956 were refugees, the people in the present mass movement are not.
6
Wait, what? By definition it's not the sons and daughters of the same people, since those people fled and do not live there... Those that stayed might not feel thankful for your "largess", and might even fault you for the weak response and lack of support, leaving the country to unchecked Soviet invasion, occupation and retaliation. The thing is, the US (and you by extension), does not have the moral high ground here since Syrian asylum seekers are for the most part rejected here (Canada, for example, is more welcoming).
3
It's to be noted that Bannon has managed to keep himself out of the news for awhile now. And now suddenly we learn he was consulted on behalf of Hungary's version of Trump to learn how to set up a right-wing conservative media outlet to push an agenda. First, take over the press . . .
The world is skating on dangerously thin ice.
14
Might as well they purchased everything here.
1
Such self-serving, fraudulent writing: "As they gather strength across Europe, populist parties are proving adept at manipulating the media to push their messages and attack mainstream parties."
This is no different from the Sovietized narrative that was coming out of New York City's mass-media central in support of Obama's cultural Marxism and then Hillary's Gold Standard "open-borders" dogma--i.e., propaganda.
Perhaps, though, by "manipulating the media" Mr. Kingsley means changing the message from the established--e.g., NYT, WP, NBC, et al.-- to the contrary. How criminal is that?
Seems what free speech is about--even for those with barrels of newspaper ink and ad nauseam amounts of airtime to attack the president.
29
"Alice's Restaurant" owes millions in reparations to Arlo Guthrie for political abuse of his song title, and for political stupidity.
9
"stupidity"
This is the NY Times. We discuss without hurling derogatory comments at each other.
1
G.S. -
I wish I could agree, but I'm afraid you're part of a kinder, gentler age. Civility vanished from political discourse in this country with the rise of Trump.
Probably just a Freudian slip, but I initially read the title "Safe in Hungary, Viktor Orban Works to Expand His Reach" as
Safe in Hungary, Viktor Orban Works to Expand His Reich.
10
No doubt helped along with rubles from further east. How do you stop this? Accede to the reality that illegal immigration is a real issue and that borders for all intents and purposes are still real. It’s scary to think once they have been given power the extent to which it will go. Hate, like a towering inferno needs fuel in which to sustain itself and that fire can be extinguished.
6
Well done reporting on the ground, Patrick Kingsley and NYT! In addition to showing another instance of populist and extremist politics sweeping over Europe, you are also opening a fairly new issue of politically motivated investment by one populist strongmen across the border into propaganda of another ideologically affiliated would be authoritarian figure.
6
NOT populist. Don't add to the abuse of that word.
5
Populism can be fascistic or leftist in flavor Mr. Zaslavsky. Mr. Orban is no leftist.
Hungarians should learn the real lessons of history. Ethno-nationalism is not an ideology that small countries like Hungary can afford. Orban and his supporters might sneer at the soft, multi-cultural, peace-loving liberals that run the EU. But Hungarians should remember what Europe was like when ethno-nationalism was the prevalent ideology. Hungary was a country occupied by Nazi Germany in 1944 then the Soviets shortly after. If it weren't for the protective umbrella of EU and NATO, the past might again be the future for Hungary.
12
Hungary was run by fascists for quite a few years until the end of WWII. This is not new to them, unfortunately. Hungary's government cooperated with the Nazis in the extermination of the large Hungarian Jewish population.
5
What I find interesting is that Orban and his government whine about foreign influence and interference with elections. They propose laws to tax foreign funds for NGOs, they call every journalist who doesn't toe their line and every opposition activist a foreign agent, etc. (Apparently they even accused the constitutional court, or whatever their supreme court is called, of interference, but that's a different story.) Then, according to this, they turn around and and try to influence elections abroad. I suppose he's not exactly hiding it since he makes campaign appearances
7
"Then, according to this, they turn around and and try to influence elections abroad"
Just as we tried to influence elections in Hungary.
5
I see the alt-right is showing up in strength to cheer on one of their international role models.
4
Why are Orban, et al characterized as being anti liberal democracy? They were voted into office by their fellow citizens using procedures that are both constitutional and democratic? Who are we; the NYT editorial board, etc to mandate the specific democratic procedures and cultural norms to be followed by the countries of the world. Such arrogance is then followed by perplexed dismay when democratically constitutional elections result in Trump, Orban, etc.
29
Same argument you would have had re: the Nazis?
9
It's a similar story with Putin, Orban, and Erdogan (and perhaps Trump.) They are against liberal democracy because once they have gotten in, they tear down the democratic institutions that got them there. Thus, they prevent those institutions from being used by their opponents. The only difference among them is how far they've gotten in the process.
8
Hungarian elections are a combination of heavily gerrymandered constituencies and a proportional representation system that yields results far from fair. Orban has used his power over the electoral process to entrench his supermajority when he barely won half the vote. The ability to amend a constitution without opposition is the most frightening aspect. There is nothing liberal or democratic about Hungary.
The EU does need to reform its policies on migrants and refugees, budgets and austerity, and numerous other areas where it takes a doctrinaire approach. But the EU also needs to stop its transfer payments to Hungary and Poland. The electorates there don’t seem to understand how much of their economic and fiscal strength comes at the expense of German and French taxpayers. The rest of Europe shouldn’t have to subsidize the rise of authoritarianism.
19
BEDROCK OF DEMOCR
Economic inequality, rampant corruption and innovation in technology have been so far instrumental in transforming societies. Good or bad, it has left under economic stress millions of people; the advent of artificial intelligence will double the pain if not regulated now. Vacuous politicians like Viktor and his ilk offer no real solutions for the EU future, but demagoguery; they will not stop at anything to attain their goals, including derailing the EU and its democratic institutions. Nobody is more responsible for Viktor political trend than the EU current leaders, their cowardice has no precedent. They failed to protect the bedrock of democracy, FREE PRESS AND INDEPENDENT JUDICIARY. Instead they bog down in empty rhetoric and political contortions to save their cozy jobs. Shame on you.
4
Free press? Where?
2
welp, no visits to hungary or slovenia i guess.
it's sad though that the US is on a par with these two countries now. all the petty autocrats depend on fake news media. what happens when people become disillusioned with autocrats and they realize they are no better off under them than they were? nothing good i'm afraid.
13
Add Italy to your no go countries. Stick around a while. They'll be more.
13
If we are going to survive as humans in the coming climate catastrophes and the resultant cultural migrations to come we must become more resilient and prepare for these eventualities. Those who advocate for violence and isolation are doomed to annihilation. Only those nations who work in a cooperatively will find ways to overcome the challenges we as humans face...resilience is the key.
5
Disaster: the world suffers from a neutron star’s burst and almost everyone dies. You are part of a group of about 200 people in southern Italy, surviving on your supplies and know-how.
Suddenly a fishing vessel with 90 migrating people from Tunisia arrives. They have retrograde values, a lack of education, and are completely unfamiliar with the methods you’re using for survival.
If you’d honestly choose to split your rations and fully devote yourself to humanity in a disaster, I’d be voting to show you the way beyond the walls.
3
All you have to do is look at the winners of our National Spelling Bee, who is winning academic achievement awards in science and technology and you will get a good picture of where the next generation of brain trust, academic, and scientific leaders and achievement will be coming from. No, not the USA, more like India, China, and other non-white countries. Yet, we want to exclude them from our country. We lost our passion for being innovators, for leading, for setting the highest standard when we elected this sad and pathetic man. Yeah, the guy that hates all non whites, the racist in the WH who only wants Norwegians to come here.
11
Orban realizes the danger facing Europe. For over a thousand years the Europeans fought to keep the people of Islam from invading their countries.Realizing that the conflicting religions are incompatabile with each other. Angela Merkel betrayed Europe and the European community, Orban is one of the lone voices calling for no immigration from the Middle East to Europe. His clarity of vision and zealous guarding of Hungarian Nationalism is an inspiration for other Slovenian peoples.
22
Well, if he could show this without financial support of the EU, than he could be someone
....
8
Hungary is not a taker, or a beggar and is giving the EU a lot, including a safe and stable investment environment and a skilled work force with lower wages.
Get your facts straight.
Hungary is taking money from the EU to support its economy. Get your facts straight, waldo.
To all the nations "leaders" spouting that you are going to take care of your own first I ask you this: When you need help as a country-who will come to your aid for you should be self sufficient and you are not.
To all the nations "little people" spouting go away to all those with nothing for you feel you do not have enough- beware for look at the dictators who closed their countries off from the world with the peoples' blessing out of fear and see how they prospered and the people lost.
The future of "me first" populist governments is right in front of us if we opened our eyes. Then again if we did that we would be helping the people who truly are in need.
Closing borders is closing minds and hearts.
Closing borders is closing doors so no one knows the abuse of the helpless from within.
Closing borders stagnates growth and empathy.
Closing borders means in the long run - death through wars led by ego and vice.
Open borders-open minds-open hearts.
13
Sure, go to Italy to see what open borders means, and pray not to get robbed or assaulted.
10
Laura, were you robbed or assaulted in Italy? If so, I'm sorry to hear it. If not, you are spreading racist propaganda.
Thomas, how would you like to host a few million mostly military-age young men from Sub-Saharan countries with no employments skills whatsoever? How many tomatoes can they pick, before they run out of something to do?
I am praying that Salvini puts them all on a trip back to their homes. I am willing to pay the fare for a few of them.
1
Quite a few of the countries referenced have a common history of fascism and dictatorships in the 20th century. It's not surprising that Orban and his financiers are at the helm of a right wing revival in Eastern Europe, an area ripe for these beliefs to grow.
9
Viktor Orban is a shameless despot, destroying Hungary's suffering democracy. Should it's citizens, if passive, deserve his misrule? I wonder. Remember Ben Franklin's cautionary words? "Those willing to give up freedom for security deserve neither". Have they forgotten already the indignities when under the iron fist and curtain of the ex-Soviet Union? And their courageous uprising in 1956? All for nothing?
23
Let's not forget the Hungarians' courageous uprising against fascism under Adm. Horthy. Which never took place. Hungary's political history is complicated and not entirely admirable.
1
If one’s goal is to stop Orban and similar politicians, here are two ideas, one good and one bad.
Good: Establish strong security at the EU’s external borders. Process all asylum requests at the border or preferably in third-country processing centers.
Bad: Attempt to punish Hungary, Poland, or other EU countries by withdrawing financial support. This support is actually quite small as a percent of these countries’ budgets. Russia and/or China will gladly step in to replace these funds in order to expand their political, social, and even military influence.
The EU stands at a crossroads. The right choice can heal the rifts and strengthen the Union. The wrong choice will irreparably fracture it.
9
John: Would you say push the refugees back into the sea? Shoot them at the borders? Let them starve in concentration camps? Or do you have a better idea? I'm at a loss.
2
Thomas:
Thanks for asking.
Yes, I could suggest several better ideas.
1. Don't push them back into the sea. Pick them up in the sea and deposit them safely back on the dry land from where they departed. The Italian efforts with Libya are working well in this regard.
2. Fund refugee camps in third-party counties. This has been a fairly effective way to handle Syrian refugees in Jordan, Turkey, and Lebanon.
3. Build effective physical barriers at key border transit points. Process asylum claims within 24 hours at centers located at the border. Anyone who isn't granted asylum simply isn't admitted.
4. Create remote asylum centers for those who are admitted. Locate them perhaps on distant Norwegian islands, and of course, provide necessary safety, sustenance, and education, especially on European social/political values. After a minimum stay of 4-5 years, they could be granted temporary residence within the EU.
Legal, humane, effective solutions are apparent to anyone willing to see them.
1
Zaslavsky is "at a loss" on purpose.
The "refugees" have a perfect safe haven waiting for them within walking distance: The worker-hungry half-empty and very petro-rich Middle Eastern satrapies, which import millions of workers from distant lands each year, while refusing to take in any of their fellow Muslims.
1
Orban isn't attacking "liberal democracies" as this article falsely claims. He's standing up for the right of people to prefer their culture over others. That's a human right. Orban is a hero. Liberal elements in the West seek to destroy it. Hopefully those like Orban will stop them.
21
Why does he get to support his culture with money from Germany?
9
Orban is, as a matter of simple, easily verified fact, attacking liberal democracy. He says so himself, and his actions back up his rhetoric. If you think he's standing up for a right, you still ought not to be falsifying his record.
2
Time for the E.U to cut these thugs off... No more euros to these creatures who take ..but do not give..If "liberal democracy " is so distasteful then let them go their way..Without our cash..
34
'...the pro-Orban media bombarded voters with sensationalist articles about the threat of a coming immigrant horde — even though immigration has slowed to a trickle.'
Immigration to Europe has NOT at all slowed to a trickle. Hungary is part of Europe the last time that I checked. We see migrants trying to cross on mass into Europe daily, via the Mediterranean, to Greece, Spain and Italy. There are also land routes from Turkey to Bulgaria and Morocco to the Spanish enclaves Ceuta and Melilla that are often breached.
There is no let-up.
And Germany's Merkel is still in power, and she has relentlessly tried to pressure Hungary et al to accept quotas of immigrants that she and Brussels have set and have tried to impose on Eastern Europe. Merkel has not changed her tune, so her autocratic stance is still a threat to Hungary and other Eastern countries like Slovenia.
Also, there is an extremely well-funded organization that is advocating open borders i.e., Soros' Open Society Foundation.
Orban is just trying to push back on this. He is fighting an uphill battle. If the left is predominately represented by the MSM in most of Europe, what is the difference that the right will now be represented by a few minor news outlets in small Eastern European countries? The conservative European networks will have a long way to catch up to the liberal MSM.
18
Orban fighting an uphill battle? When he's won all the contests? You right-wing nationalists can't stand the truth even when you're winning. That says something.
2
Orban is strong in his native Hungary, no doubt; but the mainstream media attacking him relentlessly are much stronger.
3
From the United States to Europe people fought and died for freedom from tyranny. From obsession. Yet so many yearn for and work to reestablish an aristocracy by any other name to lord over them so that they in turn can feel justified to lord over someone else.
11
The parallels between the strongmen in Europe today and at the beginning of the 20th century are uncanny.
29
I don't doubt his support in Hungary, but I'd love to know where it comes from. Several days ago, I saw him walking through the crowded streets of a lively and festive weekend evening in Budapest, security retinue at his side.
And to say the largely young and cosmopolitan crowd was uninterested and unimpressed is generous.
Makes me wonder if his coalition resembles that of our Neo-fascist President:
1) oligarchs benefitting from his generosity,
2) rural "bring back the old days" right-wing nationalists and
3) those who still resent will always resent -- and, yes, still occasionally blame Jews for -- the various 20th century post-war settlements that made their dream of a return to the time of the Austro-Hungarian empire even less likely.
Wherever his support, I can only report crowds that noted his approach and quickly dispersed.
25
The Left is siding with totalitarians , with those seeking to foster the destruction of cultures and societies. They are intolerant of any opinion but their own. Hopefully the rational elements of the Western world will take steps to protect and foster the most fundamental human right --the right to think as you please and exercise your human right to express your opinion. It is altogether fitting and proper that a society prefers its culture and seeks to preserver and protect it.
9
"I saw him walking through the crowded streets of a lively and festive weekend evening in Budapest, security retinue at his side.
And to say the largely young and cosmopolitan crowd was uninterested and unimpressed is generous. "
Had you visited outside of the capitol you would have seen a different picture. Budapest is the major, and only, base of the opposition. Outside of it Orban's party won almost every district in the last election. Budapest has only about 18% of the country's population.
4
Europe swings to the right because - shocking! - the left opened the door to millions of unvetted, low skilled, hostile and in some cases homicidal invaders who stormed their borders.
It's not even a swing to the right. It's just regarded as one by people who think that cultural preservation, and public safety, are bad things when the people asking for them happen to be white.
When progressives realize this simple fact, they'll have correctly identified why they're being rejected around the world. The only thing this constant failure to face the problem yields are peculiar conspiracy theories - Putin's grand strategy! March of the white supremacists! A shadowy cabal of Eastern European media outfits! The genius of Steve Bannon!
Seriously, do you people ever listen to yourselves, and then compare these theories to the pictures of millions of Islamists storming the border, and consider - just for a second - that maybe, just maybe it's the demographic suicide being pushed by the left in the EU and around the world really, that's behind the mass rejection?
41
"the pictures of millions of Islamists storming the border"
Do you ever listen to yourself? Millions of Islamists storming the border?
8
This is actually completely untrue. It was Angela Merkel who first “let” immigrants in and she’s the opposite of “liberals”, belonging to Germany’s CDU party - that is, the conservatives.
It is also completely untrue that most of these immigrants are wild and lawless, bent on destruction. I lived in Europe for 10 years until very recently, the last 2 years only blocks away from temporary housing for recent immigrant arrivals and I never saw anything even remotely wild or lawless. Any incidents that have occurred have been few and far between.
As a long-time resident of Frankfurt, however, prior to the Merkel’s open-door policy, what I did see was wild and lawless behavior on the part of Eastern European workers (especially Hungary).
So please check your facts first.
1
Maia, I am in Italy. Millions of illegal immigrants being washed ashore on a daily basis are a huge problems. Of course they are destroying my country.
You must have live a a little bubble in Frankfurt. Perhaps in the rich financial district? And how do you know that the Hungarians are the problems? Did you actually meet any? Don't be a 'terzo-mondista' justice warrior. Please.
Hungary has become a mafia state during the eight years of Viktor Orban’s corrupt and autocratic leadership. It cheated its way into the EU by moving toward liberal democracy before changing course. Although Orban has been a fierce detractor of the EU, he has no desire to leave the bloc, as Hungary is the fourth-largest beneficiarys of EU funds.
Only a suspension of EU funding would knock some sense into ordinary Hungarians. Although they would be punished for the actions of their government, they should face the consequences of their electoral choices. The 2004 EU enlargement may have happened too soon, and its membership had not helped strengthen civil society in Eastern Europe.
44
No, it happened just in time before Putin could pull them into his orbit. The game is still the same, spheres of influence, and these countries are dealt around as in a card-game. They are now in NATO and EU, but think how the chessboard would look if the EU expansion hadn't happened...
10
Favoring your culture , religion , traditional values , and the borders of your country is not inconsistent with a democracy. Hungary doesn't have a democracy if the elites in other countries dictate to them.
7
" It cheated its way into the EU"
Hungary had a socialist government when it joined the EU.
"Only a suspension of EU funding would knock some sense into ordinary Hungarians.
That suspension will never happen. Hungary is a major market for western European nations (primarily Germany). They will not allow crippling that market.
"Orban’s corrupt and autocratic leadership"
Often repeated statement, but that does not make it true.
2
The similarities between the strongmen leading European countries and those who ruled in the early 20th century are uncanny. I’m hoping that this is not a prescient inflection point on the linear decline of Europe and more so just a blip. The former seems much more likely than the latter.
3
For the bar majority of US-citizens who might never heard of a place like Hungary, If like to hint that Viktor Orbán has changed. He started out as a liberal conservative patriot but ended up so far as the head of a rather dangerous group of political and economical kleptocrats, who are still carving out the filet pieces of the economy for their families and friends, while leaving the ordinary people much left in jeopardy. Cost for living is so high and income so low that the Orbán policy had driven literally hundreds of thousands of mostly very patriotic Hungarians out of their beloved homeland.
They now work in the other European countries such as Germany. Being a conservative former member of the German Parliament with even biographical ties to Hungary since the 1960's I need to say that Orbán is not an extremist from the far right but doesn't shy away from using all kinds of negative stereotypes and worst partners in order just to keep control over the political and economic sector. He's best described as an empty opportunist. Since he's the most gifted speaker in current Hungarian politics and had developed into a Machiavelli type of rutheless leader, dealing with Putin and supporting Merkel in most European summits, he's so successful at home and accepted abroad. Hungary is paying a very high price, meanwhile. He has lost himself while becoming a corrupt leader, old friends say. It's a sad story from a wonderful, proud country.
So, don't fight, just watch and analyze.
15
This is not just Orban trying to gain influence in Europe. This is also Putin trying to gain more influence in the Balkans. Macedonia is not part of the EU, so why would Orban have any interest in it?
But Putin is very interested in keeping Macedonia as far as possible away from western and european influence.
6
Whenever a political party that is not of the ruling open borders global elite is successful in gettings its message out, the progressive echo chamber insultingly suggests that its because they've successfully manipulated the media. It couldn't possibly be that policies of the ruling class are proving disastrous, and that the different message presented by people like Orban resonates with everyday people. Assuming the former is yet another example of the inherent bias of the echo chamber in which progressives are hopelessly trapped.
24
Kingsley and others like him should ask the question: is the problem really Orban and other "populists" and not the failed so-called 'liberal democracy' that gave rise to their rapid ascent?
13
It is strange that so many countries around Hungary should fall under Orban's spell while the Hungarian government openly campaigns to restore the country's pre-1918 borders. This policy amounts to disputing Slovakia's and Croatia's right to exist; Romania, Serbia, and Ukraine would be losers as well.
It's easy to see why Orban wants to spread his influence, but it's curious why the EU is so unwilling to recognize this threat to peace in the region.
16
You may be spreading misinformation and overreacting. Can you cite a credible reference for openly campaigning to restoring pre-1918 borders? I don't think that's a plank of their platform. However, Fidesz does rely on the votes of ethnic Hungarians from the countries you mention, which is not hard to gain since those countries aren't exactly model multi-ethnic democracies, and Hungarians there are second-class citizens, their language and culture suppressed. EU may be unwilling to open this can of worms since England, France and Italy had a large part in setting it up. In any case, having ideological allies within the EU is not tantamount to "a threat to peace in the region". You may not agree with the ideology, but this is small potatoes compared to the US's "coalition(s) of the willing"...
8
This is the blowback of a million "refugees" storming into Europe. Did any one ask the residents of Europe if they want to share their land with uninvited third world guests? This was not a managed immigration with the goal of assimilation, but a lawless mob. Liberal media outlets controlled the narrative then. Hungary was villanized for closing the border. Maybe the voters have decided the so-called far right has their backs. By not listening to the public, the centrists have ceded the government to populists.
54
This fascist is blow back from the fascist behavior of Cheney and those who've kept his methods alive, both military and economic.
These refugees are refugee from remaking the world by force, and the economic destruction of places dominated and stripped.
It isn't really American, since the vulture capitalist stripping happened here too, and the wars cost our people too, and our own police are militarized against us.
Orban is an artifact of much worse, and it comes from here, and has for two decades.
11
Hungary’s border was closed by the Soviets for a long time...and when it opened briefly during the revolt of 1956 thousands of Hungarians stormed out of Hungary and headed for the first country that would take them.
This was not a “managed immigration” but a flood of economic and political refugees who found immediate acceptance into a dozen Western nations that Orbam now chastises for their immigrant populations - thousands of whom are Hungarian refugees from 1956 and all of their descendants.
Perhaps they should all now be told to return to Hungary using the same logic of Orban.
1
Sounds suspiciously similar to what the US and Russian oligarchs are doing to undermine democracy and promote the rule of money.
25
Money mostly stolen from EU support for Hungary used to realize Putin's anti-EU agenda. Brillant.
13
...and why can't these parties cooperate, and why can't these smaller, eastern gov'ts try to influence the EU, especially when as border states (Italy, E Europe), they face much of impact of immigration? Why is it treasonous/heretical for this part of the EU to have a different vision for EU policy? Why are only Juncker/Merkel "neutral" while these countries are "dark" and scary?
15
Orban is the new face of Europe.
7
Maybe the reason conservative types in Eastern Europe had to go buy their own media outlets is because the dominant left wing progressive media that shills for the open borders globalist ruling elite wouldn't give them a fair shot.
25
No, there is no dominant left wing progressive media in Slovenia, on the contrary, the media are mostly on the right supporting neoliberal globalization. Although relative winner of the election, Jansa and his party, do indeed promote that kind of narrrative as pretext to their populist and authoritarian attempts to control the media in any way possible, including, and that is new, getting foreign, Hungarian money in their own party media organizations that as a consequence produce very low, biased kind of reporting, more propaganda than journalism.
4
Right...right...they're spending millions of Euros to buy a "fair shot." It's totally not propaganda. All media outlets are in cahoots in a massive conspiracy, but the ones literally bought and paid for are the ones telling the truth.
3
This is the scariness of modern Europe. Orban is a disgusting racist much like our own president. What is happening to our world?
6
You mean, to expand his "Reich."
5
"Populism" is the right's answer to socialism. It is a promise to help workers, without helping workers. It relies on scapegoating, hate, fear, greed, and violence.
14
Venezuela tells you all you need to know about socialism.
2
I'd like to know what reason the Times has for describing Mr. Orban as 'far' or 'extreme' right. Nothing about his policies or pronouncements seem to me inconsistent with perfectly ordinary conservatism. We, as a society, are becoming far too comfortable with this blurring of an important distinction.
44
Mr. Orban has restored the legitimacy of the pre-WWII fascist government and adopted some of its policies as his own. He regularly calls for the restoration of the pre-1918 borders although this puts Hungary on collision course with most of its neighbors.
31
What is called "conservative" in the US these days would be seen as "extreme right" in most european countries, e.g. in Germany or France.
2
Danke. As a happy resident of Bavaria for 8 years I agree. The AfD is a reactionary EXTREME RIGHT group in most countries.
Allies of Viktor Orban, Hungary’s far-right leader, are buying media outlets across Central and Eastern Europe, to help send his message to a wider audience.
[ Fascinating in that there was never a public narrative in Eastern Europe, that is other than Voice of America. Now strictly conservative Hungarians are finding the need for a public voice spread large. What is the alternative in, say, the Czech or Slovak Republic? ]
3