What happened to the 3 winners (I think it was 3) who were paid a million bucks to come up with ideas right now to make the subways better? I remember the guy who had the idea to not let all cars platform at every station. Are the subway mavens just throwing all those plans out while no-one in state or city government can work together to fund this? If the subways are not improved, NYC dies. If a city cannot move its workforce on a daily basis without interruptions, no business will come here and business will start to leave to places that have either better mass transit or better highways for their workforce. This is not brain surgery; NYC is on the path downhill to rock bottom.
3
Regarding major projects at the 'TA', there is the term "Doomed to Succeed". Management describes a project to be accomplished, but inadequately defined with fixed cost and time. Then, as the project moves forward, the costs and time estimates are blown past - not surprisingly when the estimates were given by politically motivated managers who are eager to please their audience with ambitious goals whose critical details are unspecified. When you work with outside contractors, each change from the original 'plan' requires a costly change order. Even if the original contract was a 'good deal', the contractor has you by the ---- and you must pay the freight. There is much wrong here, but to be 100% clear, when you don't know where you are going, any route will take you there. A smarter, wiser approach is to implement big changes in small pieces, so you can learn as you go and build that into the next phase. But that isn't sexy and requires dogged determination that upsets the upper echelon. From someone who managed major Information Technology initiatives at Transit for decades. (I wish I could advise the current administration but the stakes for them are so high, I fear they would reject realistic controls and methods.)
3
Metro New York has a population of 20 million people. Add to that tourists, visitors and the fact that the city is located on, what are for all intents and purposes, a series of islands and you have a recipe for disaster and discord.
All public transit in the region should be amalgamated and overseen, managed and financed by the people that use it. In the alternative, stop giving property tax breaks to billionaires buying vacant apartments and coops and start collecting the money needed to run basic public services.
3
We will see what Mr. Byford proposes, but I doubt that the proposals can be justified. There are several different questions here that must be addressed before any work is undertaken.
What is the reason for the project? Is it the ability to run another 3 trains/hour? Hardly seems significant. Run 11 car trains on most lines.
Is the reason system failures? Is there a fundamental design flaw? Those certainly merit a fix. But what pieces fail?
The design has been proven over a century. That doesn't seem to be cause for replacement.
Is it the electromechanical relays in the towers? By all means, replace them.
Is it the wiring to the tracks? Again, by all means, replace it.
I have suggested a simple, relatively inexpensive solution. Install multiplexors (muxes) where wires enter towers. This allows towers to be replaced by a computer based train control system and removes the electro mechanical relays.
Next, as convenient, replace the old wiring and move the muxes down to the tracks.
This can be accomplished with almost no impact on system operations except for splicing the muxes into the system which can be done at night.
1
There is no doubt that major improvements are necessary. Slacking off of maintenance, plus unreliable signalling, plus bickering between the governor and mayor certainly doesn't help matters.
While it may seem that running 11 car trains would help increase capacity, not all stations in the system are long enough to accommodate 11 car trains. The cars that run on the IND-BMT lines are 60 feet long each, over 600 feet long for a 10 car train. Those cars run as 2-five car trainsets, To my knowledge, one cannot simply add on another car to make up an 11-car train. (the 7 Flushing line do run 11-car trains).
CBTC definitely will be an improvement over the old block-signalling system, which has fixed "blocks" that determine how close trains can run to each other. CBTC allows for flexible, dynamic blocks, permitting trains to run closer to increase capacity within a given space of track. Adding those 2 to 3 trains more per hour will definitely improve capacity. A typical train can accommodate approximately 2000 passengers; adding an additional 3 trains/hr means 5000 more people per hour served.
I had lived through the days of really horrible service during the 70s and 80s, certainly no-one wants to go through that again. However, given the track record when it comes to bringing in jobs on time and within budget, it really has me wondering if a 50 year program could be done in five.
3
Jeff Bezos is looking for something to do with his money, anybody have his number?
3
I’m no economics surgeon, but is there ever a “winning” a trade “war?” “Winning” as in vanquishing, destroying, killing the opponent? Or, just leaving him at such a disadvantage that a real war would need to break out to resolve the disequilibrium? If you destroy your customers you screw yourself....something Trump is loathe to comprehend. Capitalism, like Darwinism posits that the “strongest survive”; but to what end and by what means? Life is an eternal struggle, in the worst of times, and a balancing act in the better times. One’s approach to that paradigm determines everything. Maturity and perspective probably helps. Presently, we’re in short supply. Titration is the ultimate goal but you’d have to understand chemistry to know what that means.
Sweet. Just in time for climate change to flood the tubes.
Idiots. Better also build some tidal gates, y'all.
I'd suggest that any investments in New York City, whether they be real estate or infrastructure, have an investment recoup date of no later than 50 years, if that.
Many parts of the subway system are equipped with pumps that routinely remove water from the tracks. Up until fairly recently, these pumps were over 100 years old. Even placing rims around the subway entrances and overhangs over exposed stairs will reduce the water that enters the system during particularly heavy rainstorms.
Want a decent modern subway system in New York City? Bring the Chinese or the French in to build it. Suspend union work rules and American kick back contractors and let these foreign engineering people bring their own labor in.
Get China to take over our entire rail system in the USA as a condition for continuing to access our markets.
1
If you really want the subway system upgraded efficiently vote Cynthia Nixon in as governor. Cuomo’s ongoing spat with De Blasio is costing us quality of life in the City. Andy also manages to pay too much homage to the GOP who will want to maximize profitability of the upgrade. A vibrant and improved system will serve all sectors of the community not just the Lexington Ave crowd. Playing footsie with how it gets paid for is a Cuomo specialty that is as uplifting as being endorsed by Hillary Clinton or the Independent Caucus. Whatever monies they put into the system will be repaid, plus, as NYC is the economic engine of the State and the Nation. Let Andy pick nit somewhere else.
5
I agree. The feud between the mayor and governor hurt every person who lives/works in NYC. The bad blood must stop or the city is doomed.
I was a NYCTA subway conductor for 24 1/2 yrs.; now retired. When will the reality be accepted? You can only put a limited number of sardines in a can. Adding station amenities will NOT solve the "getting too many riders with the same CAPACITY equipment and rail system to their destination" problem. With a two minute headway, the MAXIMUM number of trains per track, per hour is 30. Either build a separate line on Manhattan's East side (as it was in the past) instead of trying to pack MORE people into the Lexington Ave. line (and NO, the 2nd Ave. line DOES NOT solve the problem. It just moves the bottleneck further down the Lexington Ave. line), build above ground tracks on the East and West sides, or operate cars without seats during rush hour. Sooner or later, NYC will HAVE to face the music.
9
But 30 trains/track/hour would be excellent, no? Seeing that regularly seems as far as off as Pluto right now.
2
Interesting how the subway lines mentioned for repair - the A, C, 4, 5 and 6 - service the most gentrifying neighborhoods in Brooklyn, upper Manhattan, and the Bronx.
2
Um, it's hard to find a line that doesn't serve a gentrifying part of the city. Even the G does.
That $19B estimate will quickly turn into $40B. Such is life.
7
$19 billion. That breaks down to $2bn to actually get it done, $8bn for the extra union employees, $5bn for kickbacks and $4bn for overages on the unions and kickbacks (cause you have to budget that). All-in that's $29 million per track mile - for signaling (they aren't replacing tracks). When you realize most of those track miles are side-by-side tracks, it's even crazier per actual mile. And they throw these figures out with a straight face. Amazing.
9
For the great and vastly wealthy city of New York, this is a obvious bargain and a must-buy, even at three times the price or more.
This about one-tenth the daily value of stock trades on Wall Street, less than one-hundredth of the annual gross metropolitan product for New York metropolitan area, or perhaps one-hundredth the value of New York City real estate, whose dependence on a working subway system has been noted in recent NYTimes articles.
Bringing resources to bear is solely a collective action problem. In other words, rich people will have to pay somehow, perhaps by taxing real estate. They must accept this because the city belongs to them, and they need to want it to work well. Or they are welcome to move to Baton Rouge.
For those inclined to blame workers for high pay: "Shut up." (I am a proud Upstater, who lived in the City in the 1970s and 1980s.)
6
This work would have to be done at night, on all lines concurrently, with buses providing service coverage for the smaller nighttime ridership. This is logistically nightmarish and hugely expensive. But the opportunity cost of not doing it is more expensive and leads to unknown bigger nightmares. Subways are the economic lifeblood of the city.
2
TIps:
* Shut it down for 2-3 years, whole sections.
* Raise the fares to $10-$15, minimum, regardless of distance.
* Bring in professional engineers to supervise all aspects of design, construction, equipment specification, start up, testing, operations, maintenance.
* Remove the lawyers and pols from any part of this process.
* Insist riders grow up and pay the freight.
6
HLB Engineering's tips contain some interesting assumptions:
* Lay hundreds of thousands of people off for 2 or three years. No real problem, they're not wealthy. Besides, they can all get jobs as gardeners or roof insulators for the interim.
*Make certain the fares rise hugely for workers. Otherwise the people who employ the workers might have to pay a "gasp" tax.
*Allow profit-making corporations to specify every aspect of how the work is done. After all, the motivation to make a profit is the ultimate source of all cost reductions.
* Suspend all aspects of democracy and basic governance from any pat of this process. It takes a dictator to make the trains run on time.
* Despite all these allusions to corruption and fat profits, actual riders are all children who don't understand that the entire cost must be borne by the riders. After all, making the corporations who employ all those riders pay anything at all is stealing.
Pay for it, it's an investment!
When will the full 2nd Avenue subway line be completed?
What about the Access to the Region's Core Project (ARC), the Northeast Corridor (NEC) Gateway Program, the Hudson Tunnel Project, the Portal Bridge Replacement Project, ...?
Waiting for infrastructure investment. Waiting under Donald Trump, waiting under Barack Obama, waiting under George W. Bush, waiting under Bill Clinton, waiting under George H. W. Bush, ...
1
Are any of these billions ($) going to address the sure-to-come rising waters that will occur all over the world in coming decades? Is anyone thinking of this? Otherwise, it is going to be another huge waste of American's tax dollars.
Who do these crooks think they're kidding?
Please listen up Cynthia Nixon, Working Families Party, Republicans (yes, I said it)...anyone who will do something about the continuing Robbery the MTA, its contractors and frankly all public capital construction projects are perpetually perpetrating on the New York Metropolitan area. THIS is the campaign issue of this year's election.
No MTA construction projects should be funded going forward without 24/7 video monitoring of the entire job site, independent auditing of work practices from outside the Metro area and a detailed blockchain ledger of all monetary transactions available to the general public. This theft has got to stop. It is bleeding this region dry.
15
at 67 it is certain for me to say that in my lifetime i will not see the knicks win a championship nor will the nyc subwway system ever be run properly.. the reality of living in my beloved dysfunctional new york..
5
No doubt, all of this will be used to continue to drive up the outrageous bridge and tunnel tolls for people who must drive where the subways do not go. Currently $17 round trip or $11.52 by E-ZPass. Robbery!
5
Probably best to set up parking in NJ near the Holland, Lincoln tunnels and George Washington Bridge so that people can park their cars and then take buses and other mass transit into Manhattan to lessen the congestion.
5
That already exists, NJ and upstate have a lot of park and rides
The big issue is not the money, it's the time. If it's going to take 20 years to do this, by the time you finish the stuff you did in year one will be 20 years old and ready for replacemnt.
4
Seems a lot to spend on tunnels which will soon be underwater due to rising sea levels brought about by global warming, which will only worsen under the Republicans.
The price sounds comically low to me. How much was that single path station at world trade center...4 billion? (you know...the one with 50 luxury stores for tourists, one place to buy a coffee, and a sea of metro card kiosks that can't read your credit card strip).
Prediction: once the $19 million is spent we will have a gorgeous new Times Square station for visitors, maybe a redo of the Grand Central one with expensive new tile work, and upgrades to various tourist-heavy parts of the 1/2/3 (the "statue of liberty"/Six Flags Ground Zero line).
Check back with me in 10 years when thats completed and tell me if Im wrong.
7
Just do it, gold plated - NYC subway is a national treasure. Tax the rich on Park Avenue, etc., and build it better.
3
Get it done before we fall further behind the Third World. We need to make America Move Again (as well as Think). Also, to cut the layers down, how about giving the transit system decisions back to the local level? Far more efficient than having to rely on dysfunctional Albany; all we'd have to be concerned about is infighting amongst the City which far from perfect is better than the status quo. Also, let's put transit riders on the MTA Board and revamp their mission so they're more accountable to us.
2
The money has always been available. The issue is that it was misspent on wrong priorities.
For example, Long Island RR has for decades gone to Penn Station without any issues. The government has now spent $13 billion to have it also go to Grand Central Station.
Another $10 billion is being spent on a "new" Penn Station, again it has been operational for decades.
So, there is $23 billion that should have been spent on the subway and bus system as a priority. The issue is not one of funds but of appropriate leadership in Albany.
In a recent article in the NYT it was demonstrated how the bus system can be sped up by putting in more express busses with their own lanes and by synchronizing the lights.
Altogether, there are 1.7 billion rides on the subway (not counting buses, Long Island RR, Metro North, ...).
While $19 billion over 5 years may seem like a lot of money, it is only about $2.25 per ride for not only maintenance of the system, but of upgrading switches into 21st century technology. At $2.25 per ride this is a bargain.
4
Joseph J. Lhota, executive passing it on to the subway riders. Good thing the governor brought on an experienced and connected executive. The New York chamber of commerce can congratulate the Saudi investment fund for raising MTA fare without taxing business. People wonder why Trump is in? Collusion- Executive COLLUSION!
4
Given government history, just - at a minimum - double the dollar figure and time to completion. Sorry, but one cannot be anything but dubious, for money will be wasted on bureaucratic inefficiency, outdated labor rules, corruption and graft, doing "shiny things" before hidden from view necessities, making decisions that favor overly complicated solutions to basic problems like the signaling system (apparently designers a few generations ago were able to make the system run with far simpler technology that still works today - modernize, but keep it simple), and actions that are designed to boost politicians whether at the state or local level.
In short, improvements will remain a dream.
5
Taxes should be graduated so the rich pay more than the poor. But those who call for taxing the rich and giving everybody else a free ride don’t impress me. If we make the wealthy pay for everything, their incentive to exercise their influence over the government increases exponentially. Democracy requires that we chip in our fair share. Increasing the burden on the wealthy tends to increase their power.
5
When the cost is such a hefty price, I understand how politics between the city and the state can get in the way, but both De Blasio and Cuomo need to own up to the fact that without urgent action to improve our transit system, the world's largest economy will be crippled.
Research has proven that the single greatest indicator of economic mobility and prosperity is accessibility to transit and transportation, and in a city of immigrants, this is another crucial factor. I've already hear many people confess that they are considering moving elsewhere because of the daily horror that has become commuting in NYC and the tri-state region.
My biggest hope is that we find a way to navigate the political obstacles in place that prevent us from introducing bold legislation to support transit improvements, such as the urgently needed congestion pricing proposal which had been voted down by state legislators.
New York City's history and success has been by and large determined by the reach of its transit system. Similarly, so can its undoing.
2
Its offensive for the Mayors office to make such comments when the Mayor doesn't travel by subway, and daily gets escorted by SUV to the YMCA in Brooklyn. Get this man a city-wide YMCA pass. Would like to see mayor and Harlem elected officials see the conditions of the ONE elevator on 125th street for the A, C, B, D train line. Have them experience the on-going broken down escalator on 145th Street, and watch elderly, people with disabilities, parents with carriages climbing all the stairs. Once you get a top of the stair case there is a big sign that says, "renovation" "improvement" by MTA but that's been up for a long time. Maybe MTA can improve their signage and add details on when this improvement will be made?
6
My husband is a native Nyer. He has a disease that affects his mobility. He can no longer walk up and down steps. We brought our youngest up last year and it was very bad. The Subways were inaccessible and the cabbies couldn't be bothered to pick us up. I don't know what we would have done without Uber.
1
Considering the federal government recently approved something like 9 billion dollars for a wall that will never be built and helps nobody it sounds like they might have some money to help out, especially given how much revenue NYC provides to the federal government.
4
Stop the practice of giving real estate developers of and buyers of extremely expensive properties property tax discounts. If someone can afford to develop a building or buy an apartment for many millions of dollars then they need to be able to pay their taxes. Making the rich richer does not maintain the city that makes their property so valuable.
14
I would love to know if the proposed 18 billion dollars is based on current spending patterns or costs after reasonable reforms. I took a picture a few months ago where there were 7 construction workers standing around and 1 person working (2 of the 7 were standing next to him watching).
We need to fix the system to fix the system.
10
With global warming and rising sea levels are the subways in danger of facing a new threat of increased flooding? One has to wonder if spending billions now to upgrade what may be an outdated, endangered system would be better spent on a modern elevated system with parts of Lexington and Eighth Avenues turned into pedestrian walkways with the subway running above the median.
3
There is plenty of money for everything we need - transportation, education, housing, healthcare, employment, recreation. Elections matter. Tax the rich!
3
If all that money gets spent, will the subway system survive a full flooding event? The odds are, it will happen again, especially since the US, 2nd biggest CO2 emitter, ain't don't squat to stem climate change due to Trump.
4
19 billion is a conservative number.
Please add a connecting park loop of some sort to a couple of major stations east/ west/ north / south
I'd honestly say look as to how to strip back all of the functionality to what is simple and elegant, make it cleaner, brighter, more open and have good air, claen working elevators and facilities. You need to really PAY the people who actually clean and maintain the stations so we all can DEMAND that AT ALL TIMES that there are teams of well paid people compensated to hustle and take care of those stations. We can loss a majority of the MTA, maned ticket booths, sorry people it can be done. Pay out for early retirement save you millions in the long run. To add advanced features, but rather make it as simple fixes/ new wider turnstiles more open gate systems rip out all the signage and LED panels off the platforms, put it on the tunnel walls! Honestly hire a Architectural lighting/ interior firm to give you some help making it not feel like a rat's maze. your material choice and implantation on the subway stations is antiquated and poorly installed. There are better ways.
I could go on and finally get to the tracks/ service themselves but that 19 billion will only go so far. Please purchase all new train cars for every line to bring the rest of the fleet up to date.
It's time to bring the Army Core of Engineers, house them at all these armories around the city and implement a efficient plan...
1
One can only hope that this new plan incorporates the thinking that ReThink NYC has proposed as part of the solution to the area's transit woes: http://www.rethinknyc.org
As part of this plan, the MTA should also propose radical changes to antiquated union contracts that likely contain provisions nearly a century old that have driven up costs and robbed riders of a decent transit system they've already paid for. Union members should experience pain commensurate with what the riding public has and will experience.
11
Hm, 19 billion dollars.
Just about what George Pataki cut from the MTA budget (which I realize is more than just the NY subways) in 1996 dollars.
Can't wait for the NY Times to use this proposal to yet again push delusions about congestion pricing for Manhattan south of 60th street.
3
19 billion and were talking about signals? Not new tunnels? Let’s do some math here. There are 665 miles of subway lines. That comes to 28 million per mile or 5 thousand per foot. That is absurd.
13
Maybe they dont live in the city, but there is construction already going on since, i dont know, the dark ages. Meanwhile the people are getting fare increase every 2 to 3 years. Honestly there are no major improvements. Always surrounded by this train line is not working on the weekends or late night and no proper way to inform the public. Not even a safe and proper alternative to get home or to work. I really feel MTA put these reports out there to inform the public officially of their political correctness, but I feel they are robbing the poor and average new yorker. A two week pass is almost close to $100. Come on now when do the people get to say if the construction is needed and if we want a fare increase or not?
2
How do London, Beijing, and other “world cities” construct their subways so quickly and cheaply by comparison? What makes NYC so uniquely ineffective at this task?
8
CS, the Times had this great article explaining it: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/28/nyregion/new-york-subway-construction...
5
NYC labor union employees make about 200K/yr and retire at 55 with full pensions..
THAT is what makes NYC so uniquely ineffective at this task..
18
The new price for a fare should be $5.00
2
There is always money for tax breaks for the rich. Money for tranprotatin, housing and eduction for the poor. Rich New Yorkers say: forget about it. Let they eat cake!
5
Will mafia and corrupt government official payoffs be itemized in this presentation?
7
It's beyond me why you need signals and drivers at all. If there is one thing in this world that is by nature set for automation and computer control, it's a set of tracks with cars running on them.
The subways in NYC are disgusting places that remind one of a descent into a hell. The cars don't need drivers, the cars need behavior supervisors.
1
Nothing in this article convinces me that anything of note will be done in the near or not-so-distant future.
6
"Of New York’s 22 subway lines, only the L train has the advanced signal system."
Which is being shut at the end of the yr.
3
With an eye-popping number like this one - and yes, maybe they "padded" it so that, when cut, it's still effective; or maybe, it'll experience the usual over-runs - it's high time to consider alternatives.
I'm old enough to remember a network of "Els" - above ground (30 feet above) lines - of which a few still survive.
I'm not sure whether money would be saved that way, but the point is really that TIMES CHANGE. People and shop owners didn't like the noise and loss of light, so down under they went!
MAYBE, light rail is THIS century's better mousetrap! Yes, the cost per pile of the Astoria-to-Red Hook line was also scary (crazy ?) high, but maybe, a mix makes sense. It's certainly far less disruptive, ... and it WOULD bring up to date a ROUTE system that clearly addressed the needs of 75-100 years ago.
Yes, I'm a non-car owner, but maybe, NYC has simply GOT to get out the silo system where "Andy" thinks subways (mostly) and Albany looks out for S.I. and Queens car-only folks.
With traffic going at 5 mph in parts of Manhattan, we have ANOTHER crisis. People will literally die en route to the hospitals which have gotten few and far between.
Face it. There comes a time where even a major "upgrade" is throwing good money after bad. Since the city hasn't stopped growing and subways have limits on length, speed, etc., this is the time to INNOVATE, NOT RENOVATE!
2
Projects in New York run behind schedule and over budget, but no one seems to investigate why. There are three possible reasons: (i) managerial incompetence, (ii) corruption at the level of construction companies or their unionized workers, or (iii) organized crime. It is long overdue to figure out why peer cities like London can construct subways faster and less expensively than New York.
20
The politicians who appoint the members of the MTA board are responsible for this gross incompetence. Every single member of the MTA board should be fired and the politicians voted out of office.
Meanwhile Beijing built something like 20 lines out of nothing in 20 years. Singapore, Hong Kong, Seoul, Taipei and more all have air conditioned stations and something like 99.9% of the trains running on time with Wi-Fi and cell service throughout. Despite that, New Yorkers are meant to get excited about some new signals.
27
Byford expects more sacrifice from riders? The Times needs to investigate him just as it has Lhota. Where does he live and how does he get around? He can stay in my Brooklyn apartment for a week and see what it is like when "repairs" are being performed on the weekend with no substitute service, as has been the case for years. Honestly, its time to buy a car and forget about the subway.
4
New Yorkers cannot complain that the MTA doesn’t have the most qualified people, then bring in an outsider with strong mass transit credentials, and then complain they don’t come from Brooklyn.
7
Maybe we should put General Dynamics or Lockheed-Martin in charge of construction? Those guys always come in way under budget and the only corruption comes from those at the top, who unlike those filthy union members, are admired for successfully gaming the system.
4
Har har har! The vultures at those companies have been ripping off the public via the Pentagon for decades.
3
Lockheed Martin and General Dynamics get a blank check from DoD for the Joint Strike Fighter and Submarines. It's welfare for the middle class. The inefficiencies in the entire system would make Cuomo and union hacks blush.
1
$19B may sound like a lot of money, but in reality, it is not all that much to fix a 19th century relict that is used by 5M raiders a day, which equates to 1.8B raiders a year.
You do the math. Over 20years, that's 50c/per ride; co-incidentely the same amount the T&L was supposed to collect from Taxi owners like Cohen and Freidman. Compare that to the cost of a cup of coffee at Starbucks, or a pack of Marlboro.
Oh, one more thing. Appoint a Citizen's Advisory Board that has real input to the planning and prioritization of projects, and reduce the influence and political grandstanding of the Governor, the MTA, and the Mayor.
6
Except that $20B would not "fix" anything in the traditional sense of the word. NYC should put a 45% tax on penthouses to pay for it, people would have a reason to cheer when they went up, oligarch $$ going to pay for citizen's services.
2
Welcome to the civilized world.
That's what it looks like - spending your taxes on public transportation, free college etc.
NOT on wars in the Middle East, an über-gargantuan military budget, or military aid to Israel.
16
The state/city spends money on the Middle eat, military budget and aid to Israel?? Or does it spend it on wasteful programs, bloated bureaucracies, fat laden benefits packages and too many workers?
3
Well,
If we can spend $10 trillion a year building roads and schools in Iraq for US military target practice, this should be easy.
5
Congestion pricing!
2
NO FREAKING WAY!!!!!
The price of a fare is the price of a fare, whether at 2am or 7am or 3pm or 5pm.
1
The elevators must be self-cleaning similar to those public toilets!
Cuomo is the boss of all of this. Where has he been for the last 7 years? How is it that this awareness and funding materializes on the eve of the election?
3
Crazy thing is I've commuted to Manhattan for years and never realized there was a schedule for the subway. I'm not sure I believe it either.
4
No mention of air conditioning for major stations? I suppose we will continue getting the double benefit of taking an involuntary sauna in one's clothes while waiting fifteen minutes for a train during rush hour.
3
AC is not needed.
Ventilation is.
1
Modernizing the system would require in addition to common sense of which the MTA has consistently demonstrated a lack ---
1. System MUST be automated. No need to pay inlfated salaries and pensions to the few lucky or connected ones.
2. Ceilings must be painted white-- aren't we now paying for expensive cameras that have night vision to monitor activity in the tunnels?
3. Handicapped access.
4. Simple cleanliness-- scrape off the gum and scrub everythings -- instead of millions to retile and put in expensive granite floors in stations later not maintained -- check out the filth in the redone (cost never announced) IRT no.1 stateion at 168ths -- elevators never cleaned or improved-- supposed to be replaced (if it's cheap we can't do it)-- plus replacement of stairs (168th and 86th St) to created a dangerous step-down situation at sidewalk level.
5. Who is to be given the contracts? What useless features will be included? A talking feature"train is coming" like the one on the new buses?
6. The entrances were narrowed so it's very difficult to get luggage thru in the last redo of the turnstyles.
7. The Times demonstrated that costs in NYS are much greater than elsewhere.
8. In the Times article on why subways run too slowly there was an additional decision that had led to the problem NOT just the signal problem. Management decided to slow trains for some reason in the 1990's.
9. Which unions and friends of politicians stand to gain from this make-shift work?
1
1. Automation requires oversight, by people.
2. White paint soon becomes black with grime.
3. It's never possible to retrofit such a system with 100% accessibility. We're talking about making the trains run, not how people access them.
4. Cleaning needs to be done by people. You going to hire immigrants and pay them a NYC minimum for this?
5. Those who are well-connected and "in-the-know" will get the contracts, obviously.
6. Who rides the subway with large luggage? Don't bring anything you can't comfortably and easily carry.
7. Of course costs are greater. It's New York CITY, for cripes sake.
8. Slow trains mean those "on the clock" make fewer, slower trips.
9. Don't blame the unions. A private company would run the system terribly AND pocket MORE of the proceeds, while raising fares to silly levels.
1
Let's break this down in the most generous way possible, understanding that the full subway system NYC enjoys has more miles of track than any other system in the world, 722 miles of track. Thus broken down the $19B price tag is a mere $26,315,789 per mile, or $50.00 per linear foot of track. Why that's only $4.15 an inch! What a bargain.
Now if every New Yorker will only pay for 1" of new subway that will take care of $35,432,700 - the balance can be made up by Donald Trump and his immediate co-conspirators in return for not being imprisoned the rest of their natural lives for stealing the election with the help of Russia. Surely they've stolen at least $18.965Billion by now.
10
$26,315,789 per mile
divided by 5280 feet/mile
= $4984 per foot of track, not $50.
1
The NYC subway is the human "circulatory system" of this vital city. It progressively suffers from arteriosclerosis and hemorrhage, requiring stunting and bypass routinely. Without it, the "patient" dies.
No matter what the cost, the vitality of the city is at stake and a major upgrade must be done, just a a new aqueduct must be built.
In general, the infrastructure of the entire country is deteriorating. Our bridges and road, or rail systems and our water supplies need serious upgrades. We have entered very dangerous deficit spending in a foolish "financial reform" to benefit the rich. Where is the infrastructure improvement that the rest of the country needs to survive? As yourselves that at the next election and demand accountability, honesty and excellence.
9
Before the Second Ave subway was under construction, one expert had a plan to modernize the signal system which he claimed would negate the need for the new proposed subway. Well, that price tag was only $200. million, not the billions needed today. A shame no one took that route.
4
Every single day I encounter broken escalators and elevators. There is often a group of 5-6 workers standing around while perhaps one actually looks at the broken equipment. The others literally stand watch, presumably due to union regulations, allegedly for safety. The waste is palpable. I can only imagine how it percolates up and down the system. We have got to do something about labor costs so we can invest in technology.
12
It's not unions that are the problem, it's management.
Who do you think is managing that problem? The MTA runs SUBWAYS, not escalators. When an escalator breaks down, you don't call the subway mechanic. You call the escalator repair man, and possibly an electrician.
1
Well the people I see “on the job” are all wearing MTA uniforms... perhaps that’s the problem....
There was an MTA plan to modernize the signals that was estimated to take 50 years to complete?! Did it occur to anyone that by 50 years from now, the 'new' signals would be obsolete? I laugh, just to keep from crying. It's time for someone with a vision (and their eyes open) to recognize the appalling situation the MTA is in, and implement a plan for fixing and sustaining it.
2
That 50 years was not a plan, but an estimate of how long it would take at the current rate.
2
The money is simply being stolen. The wasted money is divided among politicians, consultants, contractors, suppliers and the unions. All these groups support the spending as necessary because the more they spend, the more they can skim. The public doesn't object because they don't understand what is happening. No one says, we are spending $500 a day for a man to stand holding a flag. No one says the equivalent of a desk top computer or television set is costing $50,000. If people really understood the waste, they would riot. Expect a $4.00 subway fare. We are borrowing like some 3rd World Dictatorship. Some day this money will need to be repaid and when that days comes, there will need to be another multi trillion dollar bail out. The fact that they had the nerve to even show this plan and price tag is why you should vote for anyone other than the current political crew. I don't blame you if you hate Donald Trump but this is part of the swamp he was talking about. We need new leadership who are competent and honest. They are out there but will never be offered the job.
14
The NYC subway system is emblematic of many infrastructure issues in the US.
The common thread is that they started off way ahead of anything around the world, but at some point everyone else caught up and kept moving forward.
That can be said of our airports, highways and railways.
Now the bill is so high it is dangerous.
9
More subway elevators coming, finally! Let’s also focus on keeping the ones we have in working order as many people need to rely on these to access the subway.
1
This is extremely expensive (and yes, the final bill will be closer to 50 billion). Not doing it is even more expensive. I know this plan will raise the cost of a subway fare and cause even more misery for me and my fellow ACF riders. Still, let's get started ASAP. I wish we had done this a decade ago.
6
$19 billion. Double that number by the time it’s done. That is still less than what we spent in Iraq in four months, and what has been return on that investment?
Priorities.
Rebuild the subway. Let’s do something together we can be proud of, that pays dividends for generations. We used to do it all the time.
27
I'm sitting in the Berlin train station, having spent the last 3 weeks using public transportation in 5 European cities. Comparing these interconnected systems to the NY transit system (even more so cities in the hinterland like my home towns of Tucson and Cincinnati) is like comparing a supersonic jet to an oxcart. Obviously, these countries have simply made the necessary investment for the good of their citizenry. And let's not get started with universal health care and education. Wake up, America!
92
Absolutely correct! The transportation systems available in Europe and Asia put America to shame. This is where we need to invest for the future - in trains, trams, metro systems, and buses.
22
The one great things about NYC public transit is the AC. Berlin's buses are HOT in the summer.
The intercity trains in Europe can be extremely crowded.. with limited space for luggage.. just like here. And handicapped access in Europe is NOT always there. But the trains are much easier to get onto than the OLD Trains with the very high steps that Amtrak runs in the USA.
2
We spend 3.1 % of GDP on our military (More than Russia, China, Saudi Arabia, India, France, Japan combined). Germany spends 1.2 % on defense.
We get aircraft carriers, they get clean, efficient public transit. Not really a mystery.
10
It's probably fair to say that every large municipal project in modern history has ended up costing much, much more than the initial estimate. I'd like to see them come up with a prediction for the inevitable wide overrun based on precedent, multiply it by $19 billion and then present the result as the anticipated cost of this project. Then there should be huge incentives for finishing below that number (and on time). I'm wondering whether special terms for this essential, one-time mega-project could be negotiated with the unions in return for those incentives.
2
Yes, that might be fair to say. But the real question is this: why does it cost so much, much more in NYC than anywhere else in the world? Whether we are putting on a Broadway musical or extending the subway to Hudson Yards. Lots of data backs up this claim; yet and still, we NYers tend to just shrug and look the other way.
7
gking01 - You’re right that the root problem of stratospheric project costs in NYC should be addressed. But by saying that’s “the real question” you seem to suggest this should take the place of trying to figure out how to induce the players in this particular project to get it done economically. If so, I disagree. I think they’re not mutually exclusive questions but rather different kinds of problems, to be addressed by different parties. It’s not Andy Byford’s job to solve the fundamental cost problem that, as you rightly note, affects Broadway plays as well as subway tunnels. That said, the reason that “NYers tend to just shrug and look the other way” regarding the stratospheric costs of getting things done here might just be the kind of cynicism that your first sentence highlights. For my own part, when I read an article like this one: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/28/nyregion/new-york-subway-construction..., my thoughts go along the lines of “On The Waterfront” and, to be honest, there’s a feeling of helpless dread rather than cynicism.
It *looks* like a huge price tag. It is really an investment and a production hedge against the future! If the value of all riders were added to the equation, and projected into the next decades, what would the return on investment for this necessary upgrade? On the other side of the coin, what is the loss when people are unable to get to work, because of breakdowns in the system? Which is better, quality of life and a significant return on investment, or frustration and a loss of production? But, it would be nice to have a solid estimate and a reasonable timetable.
7
Let's see here. $19B for a subway that benefits many, $30B plus to build a legacy wall on the southern border to keep those bad hombres out.
Well, it is possible Trump, while residing in his grand tower, never used the subway, so, no skin in the game, no grand praise of him and no money for the subway.
10
Do it, cost be damned. There is no other option.
13
They need to plan on $100BN US. They need to get started and get finished ASAP...and be prepared to spend a ton of money getting the blue line, red line, yellow line and green lines fixed ASAP.
2
Is your $100B estimate based on the corruption in the construction trades that will need to be paid for up front?
4
Just a reminder folks...the Pentagon's new F-35 stealth fighter jet project is estimated to cost about half a trillion dollars.
So...maybe there might be some money to upgrade a subway system that serves millions of people a day?
And maybe we could bring the fare down a bit too...?
78
The fare is correct. Ever since I can remember the cost of a subway/bus ride has been the same as a slice of plain pizza in NYC.
6
Yes, such is the sorry state of affairs! But...don't we already have stealth subways? Can't see them, can't hear them, can't ride them. Unless it's because they really aren't there, or late, or....
Maybe this will help: call the next generation subway cars the "F-100 next-gen stealth underground fighter", have it developed by Lockheed and Boeing, price it at $1 billion per car, and overrun costs by 200%, and we should be getting a few hundred new subway cars out of it.
In recent years Los Angeles area residents passed Measure M and Measure R to modernize and build out an extensive public transit system that includes Subways, surface rail, rapid bus, heavy rail and other projects. This is what a world class city- or one that wants to be one- does.
The decision was put to the voters. I would suggest that New Yorkers be given the same chance to choose the future of the city.
21
50 years? $19 billion?
We are all doomed. In Asia they would do this in a few years for a third of the price, and it would work well and be spotless to boot.
New York has reached its tipping point. Time to get out.
34
You conveniently forgot that those countries in Asia have higher tax rates and some are run by the Communist Party.
If you want to give up your democracy and pay twice as much in sales tax in exchange for a nicer commute, you can have it - get up and move.
8
Tokyo and Seoul have some of the best train services in the world. It is not a communist thing... Yes it is more expensive, but time is money. If our trains could run like they do in Tokyo, I would make more money as I would be more productive. It's worth paying a little more for.
5
And I'd happily pay more for a service that actually functions like it's meant to.
3
You can be sure 19 B is not the final bill. Expect tolls and fares to go up again! Look at what the Fulton Street station cost and what we got. Look at the Occulus. Look at Freedom Tower. The first thing you do is may Cuomo pay back all the money that was siphoned off.
7
$19 billion is exactly how much Facebook paid to acquire WhatsApp Messenger.
25
Each year NYC sends Albany 12 billion more dollars in taxes than the city receives back in spending and services from the State. NYC money is building roads upstate for deer while the city's transportation system founders. 19 billion dollars to fix the subway that powers the state's economic powerhouse is simply asking for our tax dollars back.
96
"Each year NYC sends Albany 12 billion more dollars in taxes than the city receives back in spending and services from the State. "
Uh, NYC is wealthier than the rest of the state, so it *should* be paying more in taxes than what it receives back. Ever hear of progressive taxation?
Progressive taxation applies to people, not cities. NY holds *half* the population of the state, and the vast majority are not Wall St billionaires. They rely on the subways.
Right on! If you (New York State) have a goose that lays golden eggs (New York City), it's downright dumb to starve that goose. The current sorry state of public transit in the City makes us less competitive with cities like London, Tokyo and Hong Kong, all of which have superior service. Any multinational company scouting for locations factors traffic, congestion and reliability of public transit into their decision. The chronic underfunding and neglect of the MTA by New York State, especially our current governor, is self-inflicted injury, even if you live far upstate - unless you're fine with fewer $$$ coming in from the City.
1
How about equitably taxing one to three family homes. I see listings for multi million dollar brownstones with tax bills of less than $5,000.
13
I'll say. And then they drive their cars into Manhattan for free.
2
Let me guess? Charge Drivers ?
2
oh no! they're going to raise the subway fare again. This time it's going to be $4.00 per ride.
4
Mr.Buford’s Plan doesn’t stand a chance of getting funded.
He will leave within the year!
2
Well I hope he has the guts to leave within the year if the plan isn't funded. I think most of his predecessors were too chicken to take a stand on this issue and stayed in their jobs too long.
One of these days I hope to hear plans to expand or create new lines serving the Bronx, Queens and Brooklyn. Apparently since nothing like that is mentioned in the article it won't be part of tomorrow's grand plan, but here's hoping it's being looked at for down the line.
I'm still irritated that we couldn't extend the N/R out to LaGuardia for a no-change ride. But I guess this is good news of another sort.
15
I agree. At a minimum I would like to see something like trams ringing the outer reaches of the outer boroughs and at least intersecting existing lines. Actually, I would like to see more tram-like light rail all over the city, including in Manhattan, where light rail on major cross town streets ought to provide for much faster crosstown trips than buses provide.
3
And while we're at it: how about accommodating those who are disabled? A case in point: We taxpayers ponied up millions to rehab the 36th Street station in Queens, but it won't mean much to you if you need an elevator because of your wheelchair. That wasn't a consideration in the rehab plans.
Not to worry though: you'll get free Wi-fi.
1
$19 billion?
How does that compare to the annual earnings of the likes of Goldman, Chase, the Apollo Group, and "developers" like Ratner, Silverstein Properties, and Tishman Speyer?
They all rely on NYC transportation -- and so do their employees (at least the non-Uberites!). How about taxing THEM to pay for such essential upgrades to the NYC infastructure?
It'll only be about .0001% of the income of the .01% of banks, investment banks, and developers! They can afford it.
67
They would never agree to pay. It would set such a precedent that they would prefer mass confusion instead of mass transit. Remember why we engaged China: to forever cripple any collectivism in American labor. And im not especially impressed by the behavior of labor unions serving municipalities.
Many Americans in or from Northeast cities ( ie moved to escape them ) are aware of just how much disruption a municipal union is willing to inflict in order to get their way. There is no parallel elsewhere in the economy. It powers the republican party.
It’s absurd that it’s even gotten to this point. The system needs more than just repairs. It needs to be expanded to accommodate all the working class New Yorkers who are being pushed to the end of the existing lines or beyond them. While other cities have continued to update, improve and expand, we New Yorkers are left with an overcrowded unreliable system whose problems have been pushed down the road for so long that the best we can hope for are “new signals”. With the amount of wealth that this city generates and the rapid gentrification and development that has occurred over the last 20 years it’s infuriating that the city has done nothing to siphon even a minuscule amount towards significantly improving the transportation the average New Yorker depends on.
114
yes - see: 20 year tax abatements for developers
5
Mr. Davidson - As the Times has endorsed your comment for wider discussion, I'd like to ask whether you're saying that we should not pursue this objective because it is doesn't address every front on which there's room for major improvement. Or is it that we should do it but with an abiding feeling of bitterness at the failings to date? I have no idea how this proposed project would compare, in terms of cost, time and complexity, with actually expanding the system (which of course would be wonderful). I assume the latter would need to incorporate, not be done instead of, signal upgrades. Would expansion add only a couple of years and an incremental amount of money, or decades and orders of magnitude more cost and risk?
1
The fools who have been running the MTA for the past several decades seem to have been incapable of understanding what was going on -- and continued to believe that where money needed to be spent was on suburban rail lines instead of city subways.
1
How much of the money will be wasted?
Of the 19 billion dollars, how much will go to "'nippers' to watch material being moved around and 'hog house tenders' to supervise the break room?" (Source: The Times' "Most Expensive Mile of Subway Track on Earth)
Will cranes still require an "oiler" even though they no longer need oil?
Will generators and elevators have operators even though they are automatic?
Will we still require four times as many people as similar jobs in France?
As much as I support worker's rights, I would be hard pressed to send my tax dollars towards any of the above. Most of us work hard at our jobs and have no desire to pay someone to oil something that doesn't need oil.
143
Exactly John.
Things are so bad I would approve of nearly any plan, no matter how hare-brained- it can't be worse than now, right?
What stops me is knowing that in another city it would cost half as much as estimated here and get done on time.
In New York, it will cost twice as much as estimated here and maybe my great-grandchildren will see its completion.
18
Here is the link to the utterly shocking article, "The Most Expensive Mile of Subway Track on Earth."
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/28/nyregion/new-york-subway-construction...
25
Make Cuomo reimburse the city for the money he siphoned off from MTA to subsidize ski resorts.
27
This story, juxtaposed with your series on how the gentrification of the city is pushing the working middle class out of their homes seems to confirm the impression that the city is not livable for anyone but the very rich. The limousine class doesn't take the subway; working stiffs do and the subway system has become so unreliable that these folks either lose out on their hourly wages when they're late or arrive so early to their destinations that they are forced to kill time on the street just to make sure they get to work on time. Fix the subways--they were and can be again--a marvel. Start work ASAP--the longer it takes to get started, the higher the price tag. When the argument rages that people don't want the government to take their money--remind them: the government doesn't take your money--it uses it to provide services--like transportation to get to work. The solution to this problem is a no-brainer--to remain the greatest city in the world, New York has to invest in ways that benefit all its citizens--not just the rich ones.
33
Everyone I know takes the subway - from cleaning ladies to Wall Street bankers. The true limousine class is a few hundred people.
If by limo class u mean Uber and yellow cab riders, consider that those rides are likely the result of a calculus that weighs time, cost and convenience. Given the really big cost advantage of public transit and the impact traffic has on the speed of Uber’s and taxis, if someone is avoiding the subway they have an extraordinarily good reason. Example: going home to Tribeca after visiting a friend at Mt Sinai Hospital. Very long door to door when done via public transit.
9
Bravo! As a native New Yorker who just left for Philadelphia, you are right! The City is no longer a place for middle class people who want to live a decent life. We tried, but real estate is impossible for everyone except people in finance. Fixing the subway will be a good start to making New York livable for all and a tax on real estate developers would work. They are pressuring the system with new buildings and should contribute. Wouldn't if be delightful to have those with all the money contribute to the betterment of society?
8
I'd like more detail on this. $19B - for signaling? For about 700 engines and 660 miles of passenger track? Hmm, that would be about $1M per engine and about $30M per mile? Seriously? That's about a factor of 10 too high. How about putting this up for bids?
38
It's not all for signaling.
4
They seem to say signaling is the big ticket item. How much of it is for signaling?
Born in the 1950s when we had a more progressive tax structure at all levels of government, I can remember when the sky was the limit.
"We choose to go to the moon," said JFK, "We choose to go to the moon in this decade and do the other things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard, because that goal will serve to organize and measure the best of our energies and skills, because that challenge is one that we are willing to accept, one we are unwilling to postpone, and one which we intend to win, and the others, too."
We built the interstate highway system, roads, bridges, airports, docks, subways, terminals, the power grid, regional gas transmission lines, and other public utility projects.
At some point, during the Reagan Administration's attack on our progressive tax system, we stopped challenging ourselves to do as a country the things that are hard.
Instead, we decided to do the easy thing of constantly rewarding those already rich in the hope that like dogs we could sustain ourselves by eating the crumbs from their tables.
Before I move on, I hope to see a return to a society where doing the hard things, like fixing the subways, become goals that "will serve to organize and measure the best of our energies and skills, because that challenge is one that we are willing to accept, one we are unwilling to postpone, and one which we intend to win, and the others, too."
121
Was this plan put together by Lohta, a part-time worker?
5
People...Get out of New York!
10
Whatever the price estimate, up it by a “union” factor, as it will take ten people to do the job of six. The rest will stand around and “supervise.” Having used mass transit in other parts of the world, the NYC system is pathetic. If the 99.9% of NYC mass transit ridership knew how other systems run, they would be livid at the appalling conditions they are forced to deal with every day.
37
Yes, of course it will cost that much! At this point, it has to be done, the money must be coughed up, as a first priority!
5
Make the developers pay for it. If you put up a 12 story building on a lot that was a 2 story home that’s going to pit a strain on infrastructure. I can’t wait to see the congestion at the East Broadway station on the F line when that huge building by the Manhattan bridge is finished.
Don’t give them tax breaks. Make them pay.
102
Close some major arteries to cars and only let buses run on them. Faster and more frequently. Boom. Overnight, it’s almost as good as a new subway line. In this manner, the city can connect areas poorly served by subways to areas that are well served by subways. It will inconvenience car owners a bit, but it will help many many more people than it will hurt. The mayor and the governor will have to take some flack from those highly dependent on cars, but they both need to step up. It’s the right thing to do.
46
Disagree. Buses are big wide ugly stinky pains in the neck. Yes, restrict cars, but buses are NO substitute for subway.
The city government has record high revenue. There’s nothing it could spend that money on that’s more important than keeping the subways running. Certainly that’d be an infinitely better way to spend it than the mayor’s boondoggle ferries.
14
Even now, the subway is still the great equalizer. There is definitely some schadenfreude involved when you consider that many of the people paying several millions for a condo in Tribeca are still not Ubering everywhere, especially to work in the morning, and are forced to suffer the same daily indignities as someone from Flushing. It's hard to pride yourself a superior being when you are stuffed under someone's armpit, stuck in a tunnel, although I'm sure many still manage.
2
How about a special tax on Wall street and the large property companies to pay for this?
21
Great idea with all of the unconscionable permanent tax breaks Trump just gave Wall Street, his real estate buddies and himself!
1
Hire a Chinese, NON UNION company to do the work. It will get done for HALF the price and HALF the time.
The people of NYC have no reason to continue paying off unions that pay off their politicians.
27
Hmm. Reminds me of the "less expensive" escalators installed in a certain very deep East Side station about 20 years ago. One or the other was continually out of service. A chat with one of the workmen revealed that the "less expensive" Chinese steel that formed a major component was also less hard & became worn and often in need of replacement. Also, I don't think that New Yorkers really want workers dying on their infrastructure projects.
11
I’ll wager you want a wall built on our southern border also.
4
China built 2/3 of the world High Speed Rail in last 10 years from nothing and with billions miles run, only one major accident in 2011. Their record is not that bad compared to a bridge collapse in Florida erected after 2 days. Let the Chinese bid on the project, I am sure they will try to showcase their engineering even with a loss. 8 out of the top 10 engineering firms in the world are Chinese, so why not ?
1
It's about time that this get started. Kind of unbelievable that New York could get so far behind.
2
Maybe it should not be done with corrupt union workers.
I'm not saying unions are all bad. I'm saying NY unions are CORRUPT.
This is not unprecedented, even the Mafia has been involved heavily in unions in the past, and not just with Jimmy Hoffa or Tony Soprano.
Letting those with conflicts of interest set the work rules is like letting the fox guard the henhouse.
Why should New Yorkers pay for such corruption?
Even the NY State Governor is corrupt.
This is too much money, to allow it to go forward with work rules and the work hours padded. Working in NYC is not so different from the rest of the country! Wise up, NY voters.
41
Will hogan corrupt union workers?? Where did you learn that from the tv. I have been a union member for 32 years and have put in a fair days work. The contractors have always profited by us. My union has always been there for me and my family. I have 2 kids in college now hopefully they won’t wake up in pain when they get older like me. But according to you were all sitting around in lawn chairs like the sopranos.It’s interesting that you didn’t mention the developers who over budget projects through theft and incompetence.
3
Maybe your goal post is too wide?
Let me explain:
We all have our circles of friends and family, and in your case, this is mostly union folks, and very likely you work harder than most.
The problem is that is not a good comparison.
Real world is very different, and not sheltered to a ridiculous degree by old union rules, put in place by patronizing politicians who wanted union votes.
Byford wants to do this rehab job quickly? I doubt that anyone can spend $20B quickly.
You aren't familiar with construction unions in big northeast cities, then, my friend! Trust me, they can waste money faster then you could imagine in your wildest dreams.
14
Maybe the City should cough up the cash in exchange for home rule of the subway system. Either way, based on the SAS, the real cost of this should probably be $5 billion once you pull out the inefficiency and corruption of the MTA.
22