Mr. Kim is way more savey than Mr. Trump. Maybe now the world can finally end the Korean War!
It's actually quite amazing that a procession of US president's dating back to the early 1950's couldn't get this done yet Trump, of all people, seems to be on the road to some measure of success.
2
It is clear (to me) that N.Korea watched S.Korea's stunning Olympic success, and jealousy, or something like sibling revelry, has broken out.
What we are witnessing has much less to do with Mr. Trump than it has to do with Kim's desire to come out of the shadows and compete with S.Korea for the world's attention.
Trump is just an over-eager pawn in Kim's plans to bring N.Korea out of the medieval shadows so it can join the "modern world."
Of course, no one will ever be able to convince Trump that it was not his "charisma" that did all the work.
I think they should meet in Hanoi for many reasons. I just dont think the Vietnamese would want either of them showing up there.
If Trump can pull off a nuclear disarmament in North Korea, I will revise my opinion of him upward. It is a small possibility only, but stranger things have happened...
Democrats should have declared peace with North Korea a long time ago, but they let Republicans determine their policies.
Now Trump may get credit for doing the right thing, making tree Democrats dumb again.
If Democrats just did the right thing, instead of worrying about winning elections, they might actually win some elections.
Meeting Mr. Trump as an equal, I expect that Mr. Kim-Jung-Un would be prepared to remove their nukes on the condition that US simultaneously remove theirs; I.e. bilateral de-nuclearization.
2
Not gonna hold my breath on this...there is ZERO chance that NK will disarm unilaterally at this point - they are too far along. Not to mention we have been through this cycle before with NK....
1
If the Trump Administration can work out a peace Deal with North Koren Leader Mr. Kim -Jung-Un that would be very good and he gets credit for it. It doesn't change my view twords Mr. Trump but when someone does good one must recognize it.
President Trump will get a Nobel peace prize for removing nukes from Korea and ending the Korean War.
President Obama got his for giving a hopeful speech.
What a world!
"As they say, the devil is in the details".
For the past 67+ years, the devils have been in the North.
TRUMP Never met any situation he didn't want to turn into a food fight. Not surprisingly, he wants to engage Kim Jung-un in a food fight. Beware, though, because the hot sauce can sting your skin, mouth, throat and eyes. (DISCLAIMER: The warning about spicy Korean cuisine is intended to be humorous. No harm is intended toward the person of the president.) So now he's going to impose his plan on Kim on a take-it-or-leave-it basis. Trump is way beyond being undiplomatic. He's anti-diplomatic. Diplomacy is conducted with discretion, insinuation, suggestion and gentleness. I can detect none of those qualities in any of Trump's behavior at all! Indeed, with any deal involving Trump, diplomacy would be casting pearls before the swine-in-chief. He needs to go back to the hog wallow he's installed in the White House swimming pool, custom supplied with pig manure.
1
Trump’s contribution has been to scare both Koreas into believing a nuclear war started by the US was imminent. Shaken, Moon and Kim responded by holding their own meetings and negotiations to calm the situation. Moon especially deserved credit. Hopefully, a real and effective peace plan results from the situation. If successful, Trump will deserve some credit for stimulating peace on the Korean Peninsula. The road is bumpy. Buckle your seat belts and hope for the best.
1
So North Korea will give up its nuclear weapons based upon Trump's word that the US is not a threat to them? And they will do this at almost the same time as Trump is backing out of a treaty with Iran about their nuclear weapons. Why would anyone trust Trump's word? I am a citizen of the US and I don't believe anything that he says.
1
I'm cautiously optimistic about North Korea. I'm just sitting here waiting for the "gotcha" moment where North Korea has some sort of ridiculous condition, demand, or statement that results in the talks falling apart and the status quo being returned, but that hasn't happened so far. Perhaps this has to do with Mount Mantap's collapse?
Here's to hoping that North Korea really means it this time when they say that they want peace.
I doubt it. Seems like a strategy to pull the South away from the U.S. - North Korea paid a very heavy price to develop their nuclear program. Millions starved and died to divert resources to building their nuclear program(and malnutrition is still a serious issue). I'm concerned that the Trump administration seems to have zero historical knowledge of North Korea, or what their perspective is.
When one is dealing with Kim and North Korea, one is dealing with the creation of China and Russia. Both of the latter two may prefer to see a diminished US influence in the world, and especially a diminished US presence in the Asian area. It is highly unlikely that North Korea is operating independently. At the same time it is just possible that China and Russia have realized it is a better and safer world if they force their client to stop behaving like an attack dog and instead start behaving according to accepted international norms. As far as negotiation goes, the key will be what exactly is involved in any quid pro quo that actually changes the status quo. Our problem is Trump cannot be believed, and it will be as difficult for the US public to know what Trump has promised, as it is to know what North Korea will actually do.
1
It would be very beneficial if we had a President who knew what he was doing. Trump doesn't think the same thing twice with any degree of regularity. If we put him together with Kim, there is no certainty to be found. His reactions to Iran and Syria are either meaningless or destructive and give us a good look at his confusion.
1
Let us recall that the Korean War was a clash of ideologies, communism versus capitalism. Pretty much communism went total under as a viable ideology in or about 1988 when its most ardent purveyor, the Soviet Union, went under. So what is it all about now? Money. The North is broke and exports almost nothing.
Now that all hope of spreading the communist ideology is out the window it's about time for the North to re-join the world community. The only thing that keeps North Korea isolationist is the Kim unelected, illegitimate dictatorship and and their cohorts who enrich themselves at the expense of everybody else.
1
Is "America first" compatible with US security commitments and the security umbrella extended to allies in Asia?
NK is smart, as they know U.S. isn't going to walk away and leave a SK alone with no security. Besides, our troops there allow for SK to focus on pumping more goods to the U.S. In time it appears one country will remain, our troops will slowly leave, the peoples will unite, and hopefully this insane policy we have today will disappear. It is too costly for the U.S. to continue making blackmail payments to NK, playing these sanctions games, etc. And as for China, they would party all night if the U.S.'s influence lessens in Asia.
My view as an Asian-American with 1000 years of traceable ancestry in Korea, and 2500 years to China: the divided state of Korea has everything to do with the divided state of America. Particularly by way of the so-called "elites" that refuse to support the President on the Korea peace, claiming all manner of superiority and superior knowledge of history over the President. This is laughable.
Why is the USA in Korea at all? What business does it have over there? Such questions are often not asked, simple as they are.
I’m ok with a freeze nukes in place for a troop removal. The neighbors love it and South Korea is moving on that direction as well.
1
We are living in complex world. We need to understand Responsible states v/s Irresponsible states.
UN can define who are irresponsible states and finds way to curb them . Leadership is all about freedom to public or not . A dictator can never be a leader of a responsible state
I wonder what Kim is really up to. Suddenly there are claims that he will talk about denuclearization, that he'll give up demands that US troops leave the peninsula, and that he wants peace with the South - and apparently all because of what? Because Trump is so wonderful and so strong? I'm sure that that is what he wants Trump to think for there is nothing in all this which offers a concession from the US. I did read that Kim's idea of denuclearization likely includes the US giving up some or all of its nukes as well, but still I wonder what his game is.
2
This situation makes no sense. It's highly suspect. Let me get this straight. North Korea is agreeing that if they give up their nukes, military forces can stay in South Korea? They're being all accommodating suddenly because America has a reality game show host as president? Doesn't pass the smell test.
2
I never thought I would be saying this, but North Korea is acting more diplomatic than the trump-led USA. Come on Trump! Pull yourself away from the mirror and DO YOUR JOB!
1
Think it through. If Trump does make a successful deal with N. Korea, the secondary gains for its Russian and Chinese patrons are Trump's greatly enhanced prestige among American voters. That would lead to Trump's and his party's continued dominance in the US -- thus, more American retreats from foreign commitments, more diminishing American prestige, more weakening America as an independent power.
Then Russia gets a free hand for further territorial or influence expansion; China gets a free hand in a Pacific basin hungry for trade, and an Africa eager for investment.
1
Much of this is about face, for Trump as well as for Kim. But I first heard from a a South Korean security expert, that the best ally is a far away one, which is why the ROK prefers us as an ally, rather than China and Japan, both of which invaded Korea at various historical junctures.
I imagine Kim, like his father before him, wants a decent relationship with the far away U.S., to counterbalance the threatening weight of near neighbors Japan and China.
Doesn't mean we can trust him, only that Kim, like the rest of the region, would like to reduce tensions before they set fire to north east Asia.
The key to a stable regional balance of power, lost after the end of the Cold War, rests on arrangements to reduce the threat from the DPRK's missiles, not just to the U.S, but to the Republic of Korea and Japan. I am concerned the President, eager to imitate Nixon and Obama's openings to China and Cuba, will settle for a nuclear deal, declare victory and go home.
1
If Obama did this, the right wing would be howling that he was cavorting with the enemy, like they did when Obama opened relations with Castro.
So please, Republicans, stop with the “Trump is a different kind of president getting things done and the left is scared of it, wahoo!” pablum.
Good grief.
9
The US mainland is still a bit too far for their missiles, but the American troops in S. Korea are close enough. Kim Jong-un figured out that they would be a nice hostage under his present, far more developed than before, military power.
1
So let me see, the big news is that the LUNATIC in the North is not demanding we pull out our troops anymore? Am I correct? Then, what do we get in exchange? HMMMM there is no mention of that? Hate to admit it but, the sanctions that MR. OBAMA implemented do work. N. Korea looks like it is having major problems and they need money. The Chinese drop them, the Russians have no money, they shot a missile over Japan (BIG MISTAKE). Déjà vu, didn't we go thru this before?
1
North Korea removing its demand to remove U.S. troops in exchange for a possible demilitarization agreement is a historic development -- why did it take someone like Trump to lead on this and obtain this major outcome? Perhaps future Presidents should work outside the box as well.
6
Only the left can hope for a bad outcome! their hate outpaces any human alive, their sheer greed for power outpaces any group alive and their detestment of a powerful America makes them foolworthy! They have shown their true colors they aren't for this great country but for their agenda and their agenda alone! Keep fighting a successful America it will lead to great things for this country!
6
The real danger here is that Trump might agree to a deal involving de-nuclearization that is impossible to verify, but will never-the-less be seen as a feather in his cap which will increase the chances of his re-election--which, of course, is his only concern. We will be forced to deal with 8 years of Trump and still have a dangerous North Korea continuing to fester.
5
“that is impossible to verify, but will never-the-less be seen as a feather in his cap..”
That sounds like Obama’s deal with Iran.
4
President Trump has achieved "Peace for our time" .
3
Not to be TOO cynical, but I'll believe it if I see it. Not holding my breath when Trump is involved.
BTW - Kim is SOOOO much smarter than Trump. Would anyone like to bet that he leads him around like a 3-year-old at a piñata party?
4
Where do you get that idea? Trump will eat him alive - he will walk out fas if NK starts playing games.
1
Picture this: Donald goes over to North Korea to meet with Jong-un. Dennis Rodman joins them to keep things cool. At dinner gorgeous Korean PhD's serve Big Macs with extra fries. Jong-un makes small talk asking Don (and Dennis) if maybe The Miss Universe contest could be held in Korea - he doesn't say North or South - and could he maybe do some international you-know-what grabbing.
Donald says that that could happen - make Korea great. They decide to call Jae-in to make sure he's on board with beauty contests. He's say's great - he loves international beauty - but he wants Jong-un to agree to re-unite N&S Korea. And Un should get rid of his Nukes. Jong-un chuckles and says that's been the plan all along. He's getting bored with frightening the world and he really wants to persue his first love: designing ladie's shoes. Forget Jimmy Choo, now its gonna be JongUnShu
They call a press conference and announce that Jong-un has given the keys to his nukes to Dennis who plans to lock them up at NBA/HQ.. Jong-un and Jae-in will flip a coin to see who will be the president of the new UniKor.
The Nobel Prize committee calls a special session and awards Donald and Jong-un a special joint Nobel Peace Prize.
Hey, it could happen !! (at least the last sentence could happen.) Look for the Tweet.
4
DPRK will now be "solved" and POTUS will take all the credit while throwing his predecessors under the bus. His approval ratings will go way up and he will be re-elected. But it really won't be solved, it will be a mirage.
This is China's strategy to gain global economic dominance by keeping the US under the leadership of an uninformed, unintelligent, ignorant and weak President. It's also in their best interest for the US people to be divided. Xi thinks if Putin can do it, he can too, but in a much bigger way.
Seems obvious to me.
3
Sorry, but ca't believe in a word from North Korea leader. I doubt, specially after all bad words exchange with those two toddlers, that Kim will be so sweet suddenly. Something is happening over there and I guess we are being played. Just after Kim's visit to China, something is smelling bad here.
1
Hope truly does spring eternal - at least among the commenters. What shred of evidence exists to show that Trump could do anything but sabotage this delicate situation with grossly inaccurate and bombastic comments? I want the denuclearization of Korea as well, but Trump can't simultaneously grow a brain, spine and heart just because we want it to happen. He's litteraly not capable of making a positive outcome here.
5
Um folks, might we be getting a little ahead of ourselves?
It is good news, a given.
However, remember the two protaganists involved here.
Trump changes his mind in a New York minute, while Kim is known to go around world trade rules.
2
Kim should do a research regarding the USA's treatment of other dictators that agreed to play nice. Can you spell Muammar Gaddafi?
1
The US only has its centric view of the world and everything orbits around US interests. This is fine if your national interests and the US are more or less lock step. Trump and his threats to North Korea last year shook South Korea out of its decades long slavery to US interests and position. South Korea has realised that it would be the biggest loser from any conflict and Trump and his supporters seemed to care less for the possible death of hundreds of thousands of South Koreans!! South Korea and North Korea have found some common sensible ground it would seem with the recent winter Olympics and the peace treaty talks stalled since 1953!! China wants to undermine US influence in Asia and Trump has opened up a gap it has been waiting decades long for. China is the puppet master here and I am sure Trump will be welcome back in Beijing anytime for a big parade!!
2
I think we can all see what is coming from this; Trump will meet with Un and they'll have a big piece of beautiful chocolate cake. Then Trump will declare Un to be a great guy who he has a lot in common with and will declare that he made a great deal for America, that no-one else ever could. Un will get a bunch of concessions from the US. (He might have to buy a condo in Trump Tower at above market price, but hey, he prints all the money he needs.) He will then go on to ignore the terms of any agreement, like always, keeping his weapons. Trump is already being played, just by jumping at the chance to meet with N. Korea. They know he wants to be able to claim a win so badly, that they will take him for all they can. And he won't even know it happened until its all over.
5
If North Korea does not allow an international inspection team to identify and remove their nuclear arsenal that they have stated is aimed at the USA, this is all just another con game on their part, much more elaborate to say the least. All the negotiations mean nothing to Americans if North Korea maintains the ability to strike us with nuclear weapons. I'll believe it when I see it. In what world are people naive enough to believe that will happen, especially with an administration who would be more interested in just claiming some kind of negotiated victory with no real substance.
Is it possible that Kims recent missle and nuclear activities are signs of weakness and not strength? Kim could be desperate. It seem premature for him to be offering significant concessions. Either they are teasers, or Kim is desperate to remove the sanctions. Either way, Trump and his inexperienced team are not equiped to handle it.
2
The whole issue centers on what the word 'denuclearize' means. I think that for the North Koreans it refers to the US standing down. It used to mean that the US would withdraw all their troops and move their tactical weapons out of Asia. Now N. Korea is sufficiently comfortable with their nuclear weapons that they no longer require the US to withdraw the troops.
I do not think it has anything to do with N. Korea giving up its own nuclear weapons. Those who are expecting this to happen will be quite disappointed.
1
Although tactical nuclear weapons could be removed from South Korea, there are no circumstances under which the US is willing to or even capable of surrendering its ability to aim strategic nuclear weapons at North Korea. A nuclear sub off the coast of Washington state can obliterate Pyongyang just as easily as one in the Sea of Japan.
Does anyone, including the Bozo-in-Chief, really believe NK will give up their nukes and get nothing in return? In the vein of Trump thinking moving our embassy in Israel was a positive step by "taking it off the table", you can be sure that if the NKs don't care about troops in SK, they're going to demand something even harder to provide. Will Trump pay them cash? Provide food? Why would they trust the Trump administration to make a deal on nukes while simultaneously trying to sabotage the Iran deal which is actually working? Does anyone think China will allow NK to become the new SK? They certainly don't want Western-style capitalism that close to their border,
The fact that Kim has not made any further missile tests indicates he has thrown in the towel. At this point he just wants to keep breathing.
2
So, North Korea is supposed to get credit for taking a decade old demand off the table that they never would have gotten ??? Hmmmm
1
If Kim Jong-Un voluntarily de-nuclearizes North Korea, I'lll eat my hat.
Hey, a blind squirrel finds a nut every once in a while... maybe the Trumpsters are just plain lucky enough to ‘incompetent‘ their way... in spite of themselves... into something that is markedly better than the current situation...
But I won‘t hold my breath.
The most likely scenario is that there‘s a lot of bluster and chaos and confusion, and some sort of fig-leaf is then trotted out and branded and brayed about over and over again... about what a Yuge terrific (‘a lot of people are saying... I‘m hearing a a lot of people saying... that people are saying...‘)... what a YUGE WIN! this is... and the GOPsters will all get on board and start braying and petting and ‘how very Presidential’... and it won‘t amount to a hill of beans... It's a P.R. Presidency. And a rather sad one at that.
Nobel (I'm ASSuming “Peace”?) Prize??!
What the heck, that vampire Hank “War Criminal“ Kissinger has at least one doesn‘t he?
... just another distraction from the Babbling Baboon Mobster*-in–Chief.
: ) L
* ‘wannabe‘ Mobster... John Gotti was a competent Mobster. Right up ‘til the end. But he learned the lesson the hard way... (the lesson Trump would have learned long ago if he hadn't ignored his consigliere(s) just like Gotti)... roaches are not tolerated in the light of day... stick to the shadows... keep a low profile... and whatever you do, don‘t challenge the Fibbies to ‘come and get you‘ for your crimes.
2
Unfortunately, the biggest "obstacle" is Donald Trump--a man who has been revealed as a deal breaker, but without the patience and diligence to be a deal maker that would entail "extremely complicated negotiations." The risk of such a man along with his new hawkish aides--Mike Pompeo and John "Blowtorch" Bolton--making any deal, especially one that has eluded two previous Presidents, seems remote. Despite our best wishes for peace on a denuclearized Korean peninsula, the risk are grave. If Donald Trump fails, we will be left with few options other than an escalating military confrontation that already had us near the nuclear brink.
1
I wondering if building the first Trump hotel in North Korea is part of the deal?
3
This is all to Trump's credit. Best president we've had in years. He's not afraid to put himself out there and even thought a fool if it will improve his chances of a deal. He knows the value of real communication. If we'd had his leadership 20 years ago thousands would still be alive in what are now war-torn hell holes. Mark my words, if Trump isn't harassed out of office, the North Koreans will be buying iPhones by the end of his second term!
2
Andrew, challenge accepted.
2
Taking credit for things they didn't affect, as well as things that haven't even happened yet, is textbook GOP.
If it doesn't rain, it's Trump's accomplishment. If it does, it's Obama's fault.
And Benghazi was a thousand times worse than anything that happened in the Iraq War (assuming they even remember it).
2
A blow hard amateur president and a blow hard wanna be dictator following in his family footsteps but certainly willing to meet with a tattooed basketball player....
My sense is that it's all drama queen hooey and that we will all be sorely disappointed.
2
Behold! The Summit of the Nuts might just work.
3
It's very difficult to trust North Korea. I'm not saying the United States is 100% trustworthy, but the United States government hasn't systematically starved and tortured its population for 60 years. North Korean agreements have been broken before; what guarantee is there this time around?
2
The South Koreans should move their strategic industries to North Dakota. The USA should co invest in building car, semiconductor, and electronics factories.
Kim Jong-un will never give up his power and control... never for much the same reason Trump will never be a moral man.
Neither has to happen for this situation to work.
If Kim seizes the opportunity to rewrite his narrative from being the source of the problem to being the source of the solution, first appeasing the old guard through his belligerence, and then flipping the script to lead the charge for peace from that propogandized position of strength, he cements his perceived mandate as a leader and establishes himself as the only viable path to both the US and China getting exactly what they want.
And after CNN and the rest of the media spent half of every news cycle taling about how Trump was going to start WWIII on Twitter, Trump gets to spend every waking moment of the rest of his life taunting CNN on social media over how he "ended" the Korean War.
2
My theory is that un wants Trump to remain president for as long as possible, so he will provide him with a major victory. He sees Trump as chum. As someone who will praise NK consistently and with it, increase their global respect and prosperity. With the exception of Trump remaining president, I'm fine with all of this. I'd love for NK to play nice & for their citizens to benefit. Similar to the deal Obama & six other nations made with Iran. Hmmm...I doubt Trump will see the similarities.
1
Whats funny is how few of those same similarities Obama supporters are willing to admit for Trump.
What if Trump wrote this entire reality TV script himself - Twitter wars and "little rocket man" taunting and all - and presented it to Kim as an opportunity both to keep power and end the war?
Think about it. Its a perfect reality TV plot for Kim, to not only end the hostility towards his country and his regime, but to establish himself as the man who led his country back to a place of strength and prosperity. By letting Kim lead the charge towards peace, only after cementing his place as the rightful heir to the Kim dynasty by first leading from a place of anti-western belligerence, Kim gets to consolidate his power over both the old guard and the youth, rewrite the entire narrative of his family's leadership with his own pen, and turn a regime of sanctions and isolation into a competition between the US and China over who can run a better Marshall Plan on the North Korean economy.
The whole thing plays into Trump's narrative of over the top theatrics and egomania. If anything, he is the perfect president to make peace with Kim for exactly the reasons you describe. A traditional thinking politician could never pull it off.
1
We Americans seem to think that everything that happens in the world is because of us, but sometimes people take actions for their own reasons. Kim is a young man who has only been in power 7 years. It is entirely possible he's looking around and thinking that he'd rather spend the next 50 years as a player on the world stage rather than a pariah. If he does indeed show a willingness to compromise and to establish more normal relations with his neighbors, it is likely to be for his own reasons, not because of our president's tweets.
4
Why Trump haters think all of his economic and business success, as well as his success at getting elected over Hillary all happened in spite of his perceived ineptitude is beyond me.
I don't even like his brand of politics. But this whole situation reeks of reality TV scripted drama that Trump could have easily manufactured himself.
He exploited the media's hatred for conservative ideology by playing the brother and illegal immigrant card, not just to energize his base but to use the media's overreaction to his policies as even greater leverage to create and exploit conflict and earn favor and loyalty through the division that conflict created.
He could very easily be setting Kim up to do the exact same thing. Kim taunts and threatens his way to the edge of the very war the old guard had based their propoganda power on for generations, then flips the script to lead the charge for peace and integration just as everyone is holding their breath seeing what a bad idea that war would be. He gets to completely rewrite the narrative of the Kim regime, and cement his place as the only figurehead with the clout to give everyone involved what they want.
And Trump gets to crow about ending the Korean War after everyone to the left of Sean Hannity said he was going to start WWIII on Twitter.
1
Honestly folks, trump isn’t all that smart. Prostitutes and a pregnant wife? How dumb can an egomaniac be?
1
IF peace comes to Korea, I'll applaud all those that made it happen.
IF the Muller investigation shows Trump did nothing wrong, I'll be the first to apologize.
However, even if these things come to fruition, neither of them will change the fact that Trump is a racist. A sexist. A liar. A cheat. A xenophobe. An inciter. And a moral degenerate. So far, the worst things we know about Trump, and his followers, aren't illegal (with the exception of his conviction for redlining in his real estate business, and the Trump University fraud), but, they are an affront to compassion, caring, equality, empathy and all basic human decency.
5
What conviction?
What if Trump isn't any of those things, but instead was intentiinally presenting just enough of an implication that he was to bait his detractors and political adversaries into overreacting, so that he could use those overreactions to discredit any attempts to have a rational discussion about his genuine faults?
I don't like the brand of politics Trump represents. Solving problems is not a team sport, and that team sport provides the perfect cover for the real corruptors of our society to get whatever they want, while regular people like you and me are too busy arguing over who gets to use which bathrooms to stop them.
The problem isn't that Trump exhibits qualities you associate with the worst aspects of the ideology you oppose. The problem is he is so good at exhibiting those qualities and triggering the useful idiots on the other side against him, just like Obama was a master at gaslighting the right with his "clinging to their guns and religion", cooler-than-you attitude towards conservatives, that his very existence perpetuates the cycle of false conflict and hatred that keeps us too divided and weak to unite to reestablish the political and economic power of the individual in our society.
Sorry but he’s not that smart.
1
Well, to start with, the Korean affine (common, but inexact anthropological term for ‘ethnic ‘ Koreans) and the southern Chinese affine cannot and should not be considered loyal allies.
Else most of the Korean affine would still be living within the current borders of China.
Recognizing N. Korea as a de facto state and nuclear power would not exactly lower tensions.
Japan could easily become a target - due to atrocities committed by that nation’s military during World War II, for which the Japanese government has never even mentioned, let alone given a token apology for.
This bond of anger may be the strongest holding the superpower and peninsula together.
Recognition of South Korea as a de facto nation separate from the North could lead to another Viet Nam under very similar circumstances EXCEPT for the North’s small nuclear arsenal operated for 3 generations as close to “1984” as one can get in the wired world...
And a leader with the kind of control POTUS and his circle of friends would like to impose on the US, two very thin-skinned men who argue about the potency of their buttons.
Also, now that Trump has given up on Middle East peace, he may very well create a situation allowing more manufacturing outsourcing in return for boosted food sales, and an alleged “crippling of Syria’s nerve gas industry and short term big-ag sales of soybeans and pork just in time to “look Presidential “ before the November elections...
Disregarding future economic and military threats
Here's an idea for a pre-condition: require North Korea to account for the American POWs missing since the end of the war.
1
When something looks too good to be true, it usually is.
2
Ask yourself, honestly - how did this change come about after decades of US Presidential administrations filled to the brim with career bureaucrats and pols failed to dent NK's grim resolve, "Who made this happen?" Which people's champion worked behind the scenes with a street smart no swamp denizen could have possessed?
3
The only thing I can think of is that Trump waved his magic wand.
1
I think the difference is in the human rights part of the equation. Clearly NK has been open to ditching nukes and allowing the US to keep a military presence in prior negotiations. The difference now is that Trump doesn't really have any issues with how Kim runs his country and treats his people. Trump just wants the nukes and doesn't really care about anything thing else. All prior presidents and negotiators definitely tried to change the situation in NK from a human rights abuse stand point. Kim and NK leadership look at Trump's interactions with the Philippines, Hungry, Russia, etc. and they finally see a president that they can make a deal with. The world will be a safer place with this resolved....but the North Koreans may not be any better off.
Ironically, American troops are more of a shield to NK than they are a danger. He should be asking the US to send more, and with their families. They act as effective hostages ... or they would be for a stable President.
2
I trust North Korea more than Trump--let that set in.
1
Really? Why not relocate? No need to stay here...
1
Trump should be given credit for his "unique" approach to N. Korea. Nothing's worked in the last 65 years so, hopefully, it will be successful for all parties.
Trump's also looking for the Nobel Peace Prize.
Kim's throwing Trump a sucker punch and, as usual, Trump is winging it and will get slammed. Trump's way out of his league and doesn't have the mental fortitude to go up against Kim, Putin or most other leaders around the world.
3
What does it mean to "denuclearize"?
Even if North Korea allows inspection of every single one of its nuclear sites, and even if inspectors can verify that North Korea has dismantled / destroyed same, there remains the problem of know-how.
North Korea will always possess the know how. The US will never be able to take that away from North Korea.
Mr. Trump already has said he would "respectfully leave" the talks if they were not fruitful. Obviously he has been warned.
My guess is that, having starved to death millions of his countrymen so that North Korean scientists could develop nuclear weapons and ICBMs, Kim Jong Un will define "denuclearization" in a way that will simply not be palatable for the US.
Which is probably why he is already prepared to allow a US military presence in South Korea in the event of an accord.
North Korea has nuclear capabilities. In their mind, why should they give them up when other countries have them? What does their government/Kim Jong Un want? He wants a “seat at the international table”. He wants respect. We, the United States, have a huge stockpile of weapons and we are not going to give them up. And neither will the other eight nations who have them give them up. So let's treat him with respect and allow him to join the nuclear community - with rules and conditions.
Through diplomacy, let us bring everyone to the table, assuring others that we do not want war with North Korea. Find a way to muzzle Donald Trump so that he cannot make a bigger mess than he already has. Extend our diplomatic “hand” to Kim and allow him a way to save face, having stood up to the rest of the holders of nuclear weapons so that everyone can STAND DOWN.
Germany and the United States, along with Great Britain, were in a fierce race to see who would be first. Now others have joined the “nuclear family” and others are eager to do so…Nine nations — the United States, Russia, United Kingdom, France, China, India, Pakistan, Israel and North Korea — possess approximately 16,300 nuclear weapons.
That’s more than enough to wipe our civilization…
I have recently reviewed the truth vs. fable regarding the numerous public and private executions ordered by Kim Jong-un. Yes, there are many unverified fantastic stories, e.g death by flame thrower, death by military artillery shells and anti-aircraft guns. But, using generally trusted news sources, akin to the BBC, it appears executions by firing squads are common for seemingly minor petty digressions that unfortunately displeased the supreme leader.
If his quick reaction is to kill displeasers, I personally can't wrap my head around the idea that his thin skin is letting D.Trump slide for the numerous tweeted insults Trump has sent off.
Yes, that's an extremely petty aside, given the stakes.
But, just ask Sony Pictures about their take on the consequences of insults to the supreme leader.
1
Sony Pictures did not have the ability to destroy Kim and his playthings....
The negotiation with NK has been going on for the past 25 years with or without precondition throughout different US administration with more competent diplomatic hands ended in failure. The removal of the US troops is no longer a precondition of the talks but it can still be a condition or demand during the negotiation of a treaty.
We’re kidding ourselves to think that the North Koreans are just going to roll over with their bellies up. There’s got to be something in it for them. Why should they give up so easily and quickly? It’s such a fantasy.
1
Perhaps Kim sees in Trump a strong POTUS who will not hesitate use force if necessary, something he hasn’t had to deal with before...
1
It's possible that Kim sees the opportunity to rewrite the narrative of his family's dynasty, and establish himself as the only realistic source of the solutions being sought by the US, China, and his own people who are hungry for peace.
The belligerence he has shown so far establishes his "street cred" with the old guard, while presenting the message of the real threat of following their suicidal death wish to it's logical conclusion. Then when even the hardcore anti-Americans are getting scared of what war would really mean to them, he nabs the chance to flip the script.
If anything, it couldn't be more obvious if the script had been written by the writers for Monday Night Raw.
The other night I did a somewhat deeper online dive in search of some insight to explain this recent remarkable change in North Korea's geopolitical situation. The best article I came across was published at the beginning of the month on "Today Online", a media site in Singapore that is partially owned by their government (so there may be some bias). It's worth a read: https://www.todayonline.com/world/north-korea-why-kim-jong-un-came-cold
In the past agreements to denuclearise North Korea “all collapsed in disputes over how to verify a freeze of its nuclear activities,” because there was no mutual trust between the parties. Apart from economy, security guarantees are on top of Kim Jong-un’s agenda. Can he trust the US to ensure his regime survival?
The meeting between Kim and Trump is like putting the cart before the horse. It would be more recommendable if the US and North Korea opt for a trust-building process, conducted at lower levels, before their leaders finally meet.
Although Kim doesn’t demand the withdrawal of US troops in South Korea as a condition for denuclearising his country, former negotiators warn against his willingness to do so, saying it would be difficult to “verify that North Korea was not cheating on its commitment.... as it has been accused of in the past.” Kim may be watching closely how Trump and Congress are going to do with the nuclear deal Iran had signed with the US, together with other world powers. He has legitimate reason to worry that the agreement he signs with this administration could be rescinded.
3
As a Trump supporter, it is refreshing to see a number of comments here from those on the Left who would give the President his due if there were a breakthrough in the Korean Peninsula. If such a breakthrough were to occur, it would indeed be due to a variety of factors, as many here suggest, but Trump's maximum pressure campaign against North Korea (and China) would certainly be seen as pivotal in getting us there.
4
There will be no breakthrough...if something good comes from the planned talks, it will NOT be due to anything Trump does.
3
:) Maximum pressure campaign? He has hurled some insults on Twitter and that is about it. He will not even impose sanctions against Russia let alone get physical with Kim. He is pretty much just a sock blowing in the wind and no matter what deal he makes with anyone, 24 hours he changes his mind and makes a new one with someone else.
I would invite him over to the house, give him a big piece of chocolate cake, tell him whatever he wants to hear, send him on his merry way, and go back to whatever I was doing.
Like everyone else, I hope all parties come up with a good plan. And stick to it once they agree to it.
2
The problem is history. Gaddaffi chose not to go for nukes and was overthrown by the western powers. Kim knows this and will keep this in mind. Both N. Korea and China want to swoop up S. Korea and Japan. These talks are an opening or them to point out that US troops are no longer needed once peace is restored.
2
I don't believe this guy Kim and his patrons China and Russia are on a sudden peace mission. So here is my theory:
Putin, Xi and Kim are on a mission to make sure 1) Trump gets re-elected and not impeached and 2) Trump to continue providing them shield to continue their mission of destroying democracy.
I would love to be proven wrong, and Trump can get all the credit. But so far the track record of this triangle and Trump's desperation to be liked by them, shows that he is in a position of weakness and can be manipulated.
5
But how "manipulated" can Trump actually be? The first thing everyone says when this subject arises is indeed, "it could be a trick." We will certainly be on guard for any such attempt.
The investigation into Trump Organization's possible compromises with other countries is the way we find out how "manipulated" he is.
From my experience with how things go with Donald Trump in New York City I'd say there is a lot of rot.
North Korea should invite UN nuclear inspections. If not, don't trust them.
1
Give one good reason why North Korea would give up its nuclear capability and you can find an antithesis on Trump's Twitter feed.
1
There's an old saying. If it sounds too good to be true...
3
Kim reminds me of Lt. Columbo, don't be counting those chickens so soon.
2
Has Trump made a single successful deal yet as president? His achievements so far are somehow managing to not cancel NAFTA and signing a tax bill that Republicans wrote without his input. What happened to his amazing negotiating skills when it came to DACA, the TPP, Iran, Syria, Obamacare repeal, the wall, or his attempts to "balance" things with China? Is Korea going to be his first actual deal?
6
One of two things is possible here.
One. Kim and Trump are both genius leaders. Kim knows that peace is the most positive future, but he has to counter the generations of America-hating propoganda his father and grandfather generated to make that peace. So he and Trump - who also knows the value of propoganda and showmanship - collude to manufacture a pro-wrestling, reality TV style script, in which the two leaders engage in an escalated conflict that gives their old guard the fight they crave. They walk up to the edge of war to frighten the Korean populace (as well as America's Trump-hating media) into begging all parties for a peaceful resolution, which they then graciously provide.
Kim proves himself to be the "great leader" he thinks he is, separates kat least superficially if not meaningfully) his own mantle of leadership from the atrocities committed by his progenitors, and rewrites his own narrative as the leader who saved his nation from war and led them to normalcy and integration with the global community. Instead of a global pariah, Kim now leads the world's next great economic battleground between the US and China, replacing sanctions with competition between the two over which side can invest more and better.
Trump of course takes full advantage, loving every minute of the drama he creates in the press, and his detractors literally have no comeback for the fact that he just ended the Korean War.
Two. They are both nuts, and we are all probably going to die.
4
Two is much more likely.
1
this will result in nothing. N K is up too its old games.
1
It's possible, but the dynamics of the region economically have changed so much in recent years that it's also possible that we could be seeing a light at the end of the tunnel.
The advent of the internet and our information society has made it virtually impossible to maintain a fully closed off society. North Korea already has a massive black market for informafion and media from the outside world, and even Kim himself is known to enjoy media from the South.
For better or worse, much like the "War on Drugs" and the crusade of the hoplophobes and tyrants of the world against the right to bear arms, we are not much more likely to countermand the economic laws of supply and demand with the force of law, than we are to nullify the force of gravity with a federal mandate.
If Kim is smart, he understands this fact, as well as the fact that his father and grandfather stacked the deck against him with decades of propoganda hating America and the South. He has to balance between playing the hand he was dealt, knowing how to fold that hand without offending generations of cultural heritage, and reframing his narrative from being the source of the problem to being the only viable source for the solution.
If you think about the current situation with Trump, if Trump is smart and willing to play the game it's perfect. They pretend to escalate the conflict with a perfect reality TV script, and they use the climactic stare-down to make the audience crazy for peace, then do just that.
Here's Trump's late morning tweet; Apr 19, 2018 11:23:52 AM Just arrived @NASKeyWest! Heading to a briefing with the Joint Interagency Task Force South, NORTHCOM and SOUTHCOM. https://t.co/r906IXnBcG[Twitter for iPhone]
What in the name of National Security is wrong with this idiot? He's giving the coordinates of himself as well as top military personnel. Isn't this treasonous, besides just plain stupid?
If you "Patriots" are not concerned by this, you DARN well should be, my goodness, it just gets worse by the minute.
3
With the exception of classified situations, the itinerary of POTUS is generally public knowledge, published days if not weeks in advance for the press corps and the general public.
I don't like Trump's confrontational, fault-finding, irrational brand of politics any more than any other sane human being. I think he is a cancer on our politics.
But like all cancer, he is simply what has matasticized from an illness that has been consuming our civil discourse for decades.
And nothing against you personally, but the hysterics you display here are growths from the exact same malady. Taking perfectly mundane events to find fault and criticism that does nothing but distract from the discussion of the innumerable faults and failings Trump actually possesses as a leader and a human being.
If you truly want to fight that spirit of division, I completely agree with that sentiment, and I humbly offer that you should stop contributing to it with your own words and actions first, so that you can be a positive voice to influence people your fellow citizens to do the same.
Best regards,
3
This seems to be an opportune moment that can result in great changes on the Korean peninsula if handled well. What few people in the public understand and nearly no politicians in high office understand is that leaders do not make the conditions which lead to great changes in world affairs.
Instead, successful leaders recognize when conditions are opportune and they exploit them. In this situation the chances of success are kind of challenged by the American players. Trump, Pompeo, and Bolton are all egomaniacs who think that they can force events to happen as they will them to happen. They could screw it up.
There is no need for American troops in the Korean Peninsula or Japan unless we wish to impose our ruling elite’s racial, political and economic interests over the Korean peoples, South and North, and Japan. That is the long and short of it, no matter how you cut a peace between the North Koreans and the United States and its partner South Korea.
The segment of Americans cheering an American peace deal that leaves our government in control of the Koreans are no friend of either the Koreans or most Americans. Any deal cut by the Trump administration with Kim Jong Un will not and ought not to last for long. If Russia had cut a similar denuclearization deal with East and West Germany before the collapse of the Berlin Wall, it would have been equally as bad for all concerned and for us Americans.
1
Trump will sit down at the negotiating table facing Kim and even before the discussions begin, he will pull out a gun and shoot Kim dead. It is the only way he can go down in history as something else than the corrupt, unfit, inept, and sleazy politician he is.
I just can't see Kim giving up his nuclear weapons program entirely, or even vitiating it by some kind of freeze. That program, after all, is what brought the U.S. to the table. Moreover, even supposing Mr. Trump could get a complete deal with Mr. Kim, any such outcome would only expose the folly of trashing the Iran nuclear deal. I comprehend that the Koreans and Asians themselves have much better knowledge than I do of their own situation, and a serious respect for them hasn't always obtained in U.S. politics. Even so, I will believe in any deal when I see it and when Mr. Trump actually produces it and actually proves his adherence to it not by words but by behavior. But his behavior is so erratic. . . and here we are back in the vicious circle from which I expect just exactly nothing. Any deal would be better in any other hands. Let us all hope I'm totally wrong.
And, with that, Trump Derangement Syndrome is one step closer to the DSM.
1
It's the American people who ought to be jumping up and down demanding that US soldiers be removed from South Korea. And it's progressives who ought to be leading that charge. Instead we get GOP & Dem once again with their heads buried in the sand, two peas in a pod, not a meaningful distinction between their devotion to militarism.
Guess what my fellow Liberals? The GOP is using Trump to bankrupt the American government for a reason. The press has propagandized our people so thoroughly that a huge misdirected military is our national reason to be that we'll never cut the Pentagon budget, and with the giant deficits you will NEVER see single payer health care, a serious safety net, to say nothing of glossy high shelf items like mental health care or decent education at a decent price. My fellow Liberals, the biggest sucker on the planet.
2
My home is in Seoul, within range of North Korean artillery. If I had a dime for every time Pyongyang threatened to turn my city into a “sea of fire,” I could buy many lattes. We were angry that Trump seemed to be ratcheting up tensions with his casual tweeting about attacking North Korea (which would surely invite retaliation).
That said, Trump deserves credit if he is able to make a summit work (Obama had talked about it, but was not able to make it work). Many of us were worried that Trump, who on the campaign trail seemed to not understand the value of having US forces as a deterrent to China and Russia in Asia and Europe, would be a poor negotiator who might give away the store because he doesn’t understand its value (there’s always money in the banana stand).
More importantly, it is to the credit of CIA director Pompeo and ROK president Moon that hey somehow got US troop withdrawal taken off the table. North Korea has for decades claimed there could be no peace deal if US Forces Korea remained, and that meant substantive peace talks would be a nonstarter. North Korea has wanted US forces out of South Korea so that it could successfully invade the South, if needed (their 1950 invasion of South Korea followed poorly considered US government indications that South Korea was outside the zone the US would defend). Were the US deterrent removed from the Korean peninsula, even just the threat that North Korea could invade would alter North-South interactions indefinitely.
You're a liberal I could have a conversation with.....
I suppose Trump will want a tower in the N Korean capital.
1
Can anyone imagine Kim allowing nuclear inspectors into North Korea? Neither can I.
We have a lazy, profoundly ignorant President who's already told everybody in the region he'd like to abandon them so build yer own nukes, and who has threatened Japan and South Korea with economic sqnctions, and who yanked us out of TPP's controls on China, and who desperately needs something to brag about before midterms, going up against a vicious hereditary dictator who's already got the direct talks the DPRK has been trying to get for fifty years and hints about yanking our troops out of the region.
In exchange for...nothing.
Yeah, this'll go good.
Several points are important to remember
(1) The US's belligerent attitude (having ~400 nuclear missiles deployed in South Korea until the 90s) played a causative role in pushing the North to develop its own nuclear arsenal. As with so many situations, historical context can largely be lost on Americans. >>We probably caused the problem we are tasked with "solving." Humility helps.
(2) The North has weathered decades of punishing economic sanctions in order to develop nuclear weapons. They now have ~30 or more of them. They will not give them up easily and probably not at all (in my opinion). Why would they when the US and others maintain these horrific weapons citing the doctrine of "deterrence?" They will continue to develop the technology to permit reentry of intercontinental weapons - even while sanctions or talks are ongoing.
>>Kim Jong-un doesn't suddenly trust the West.
(3) The awful developments of the past 2 years, i.e. the development of a 100 kiloton weapon and short range delivery capability by the North, has certainly pushed both South and North Korea to want to negotiate better security on the peninsula.
>>If anyone, I tip my hat to Moon Jai-in.
(4) The North has been demanding bi-lateral talks with the US for as long as I can remember. Nothing new here. We have wisely refused given the intricacies of the numerous players involved in the region: N and S Korea, China, Japan, Russia and US.
>> Any meaningful agreement will require cooperation from all 6.
3
A reporter asked Trump at his press conference yesterday what tangible concession he gotten for agreeing to meet Kim. This is a huge a one.
So Trump may remove the possibility of N Korean nukes destroying much of civilization.
But what happens if Trump succeeds?
Combine the power of the explosions of all the heads of Trump's detractors. What is that in megatons?
Will civilization really be better off in the first case?
3
North Korea's nuclear share of stockpile around the world is miniscule. A lot of nation especially the US and Russia has many times over the wipe all living things in this planet. So don't be ovey dramatic and talk of Trump saving the civilization. Especially that he himself stated to step up our nuclear capability.
Unless you belong to those who believe Trump is sent by God, then your premise is valid and no one can argue with your faith.
Trump makes Obama look like more like an empty suit with every passing day. Isis running scared on the battlefield, red lines being enforced around the globe, illegal immigrants actually afraid of getting caught breaking the law and now potential peace on the Korean peninsula. The only question now is how the media will continue to spin their negative narrative without once again resorting to fake news.
4
Obama, Obama, Obama.
George W. Bush, Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfield, Condoleza Rice. They brought us to war. Check your facts.
4
I'm sure there must be a deal for a Trump hotel in N. Korea. Why else would he be there?
1
Anybody who thinks this is significant should review Charlie Brown trying to kick a football with Lucy holding.
3
The question is not only can Trump trust Kim, but can Kim trust Trump?
1
I have relatives who were in NK from before the Korean War. Openness would allow me to find them if they, or their children, are still alive. If Trump's craziness allows me to do this, I will have my first good thing to say about him.
But I have little hope because I still see zero incentive for North Korea to give up its nukes. It is literally its sole bargaining chip. NK has the least independent economy in the world - so unless they receive a long time commitment of huge economic support, why would they do this? A real open economy would bring information to North Koreans - the lack of which allows Kim to maintain his illusion of godliness.
My guess is that NK (coached by China) tells the U.S. what it wants to hear, to get huge amounts of foreign aid, and thwarts efforts to verify they are denuclearizing. Meanwhile, Kim looks more godlike by getting the U.S. to give in to its demands and allowing conditions to improve for North Koreans (while using most of the foreign aid to enrich himself, the elite, and its military).
1
How many times has Donald Trump said there would be no talks with North Korea, while Tillerson attempted to have some, and now Trump is all for having talks?
I'm sorry, but has Donald Trump ever heard of the "Sunshine Policy" that South Korea utilized in the 1990's as a strategy for dealing with the North? This policy consisted of a series of appeasements to Kim Jong Il, and in return he promised a denuclearization of the Korean Peninsula. What was the result? North Korea averted sanctions for a few years, received some humanitarian aide, but refused to hold up its end of the bargain.
North Korea is literally a mafia state; it continues to make money in the face of economic sanctions through illicit activity, such as: production and international distribution of narcotics, counterfeit currency, and even the exportation of its people for slave labor. This country will think NOTHING of voiding a denuclearization treaty with the United States. It will promise the moon, and with Trump's ego as a factor, will probably receive all of its demands in exchange for a supposed denuclearization.
Considering all of the above, I have no idea why anybody would believe that a mafia state that spent a humongous percentage of its GDP developing nuclear weapons would all of the sudden be open to getting rid of them. If Trump goes along with this, I might try to sell him the Brooklyn Bridge.
2
Wait a minute.
North Korea now has nuclear missile capability. This is why they stopped testing.
Since their position is now much stronger than before, why are they willing to give up anything? Why do they seek unprecedented negotiations with a delusional narcissist U.S. president?
Please discuss.
3
A few too many ifs, mays, trumps , and Kims involved to have much confidence.
But, have at it.
2
I don't think Trump would mind pulling out of North Korea. He is isolationist, to him that will be a double win.
China and Russia would absolutely love this so I won't be surprised if they put pressure on NK to agree to a deal.
I certainly hope North Korea’s peace overtures come true, but the cynic in me can’t help noting that North Korea has a long, long history of broken promises. This includes every previous denuclearization deal made, business deals made with South Korea and China, and even simple business contracts. To this day, North Korea has yet to pay back Sweden for 1000 Volvo vehicles they imported in the 1970’s.
Thank you President Trump for all you do to keep this great country,.. founded by my forefathers safe and secure.
8
Herein we find proof of P.T. Barnum's dictum.
5
Why am I seeing the Great Oz departing in a balloon?
2
Texas was Mexico when our forefathers founded the United States.
3
I predict that President Trump will get a brilliant agreement from North Korea (the best one in history), one that calls for complete de-nuclearization of the peninsula and, most importantly, one that is far, far better than anything Obama or Clinton could obtain. And I predict that North Korea will never abide by that agreement.
23
Like every other deal this president has embraced, if he squashes this one for political or for personal gratification the stakes are very, very high. I just hope I am part of the nuclear flash if he blows it...
2
What a different tune from just a couple of months ago. Trump for good or bad makes things happen.
9
Watch out for the next Trump tweet about N.Korea, Thomaspaine17!
We like an admire President Trump as a businessman who like you point out can make things happen hopefully for the better. We hope the U.S. and President Trump will not give up on supporting the Syrian Democratic Forces and the reemerging Kingdom of Greater Syria as we are calling for Iran, Hezbollah and Russia to leave Syria and predicting in short period of time someone either U.S., Israel or one of the current 6,000 being forced to flee Assad forces will get him and take him out. If U.S. Sec. State Clinton can brag on T.V. when the Col. in Libya was killed and say "We got him" then surely U.S. will want to take out Assad who is 10 times more dangerous. In a way we miss hearing the Col. talk about the "Arab Nation" which sadly is apparently not there any more.
North Koreans are getting exactly what it wanted: armistice to formally end the Korean War and the security guarantee that United States and South Korea will not attack first and reunify the country. For Kim Jong Un, keeping the Kim Dynasty in tact in North Korea was what this was all about. The big change in the Korean equation was the election of Moon Jae-In in South Korea who was eager and willing to negotiate with North Koreans unlike the hawkish Park Geun-Hye and the election of Donald Trump in the United States who could not tell you the first thing about the Cold War and the Domino Theory nor the Yalta Conferences that promised a unified Korea after a transitionary period once Japanese Imperial Forces surrendered. New realities on the ground have outpaced the idealism of the past: in exchange for Kim's denuclearization, the dream of Korean reunification is taking it's last breath. Yet, from the impoverished North Korean countryside to the glitzy Kangnam District in Seoul, Koreans are too busy, too rich, too frightened, too hungry to care.
4
The North Koreans are eager to meet because with Trump in power the sky's the limit as to taking advantage of this impetuous neophyte. The NK's will concede modest concessions so that Trump can claim victory to help the GOP in the mid-terms.
10
This is a great news!
I infer the hidden hand of China. "With regard to the situation on the Korean peninsula, China's position is clear: it is squarely behind the proposal of the Democratic People's Republic of Korea for tripartite (between the two Koreas and the United States) talks to seek a peaceful and independent reunification of Korea in the form of a confederation, free from outside interference. China believes this is the surest way to reduce tension on the peninsula." https://en.wikipedia.og/wiki/Korean_reunification#cite_note-47
Efforts for the peaceful reunification of Korea bring in to sharp focus a great book "Where Are We Headed? Nonzero: The Logic of Human Destiny by Robert Wright who argues that human history does indeed have a purpose.
The principal argument of Nonzero is to demonstrate that natural selection results in increasing complexity within the world and greater rewards for cooperation. Since, as Wright puts it, the realization of such prospects is dependent upon increased levels of globalization, communication, cooperation, and trust, what is thought of as human intelligence is really just a long step in an evolutionary process of organisms (as well as their networks and individual parts) getting better at processing information
Well I suppose it's game time for Mr Trump - this is literally his most-boasted (and that is saying something) skill - his ability to make a negotiate a deal.
I seriously hope it moves the ball forward for all parties involved in the conversation - although I'm curious as to what China thinks being left on the sidelines. I assume they are not too keen to have their N. Korean friends allowing US troops to remain so close to their borders.
I'm just hoping this doesn't end with pure posturing and military action - we don't need a Korean War II.
If you think China is not heavily involved to get us to this point, then you don't know how this "game" is played,
And may never understand why Trump got previously blue parts of the industrial Midwest and northeast to vote for him.
3
I'm no fan of Trump but he has been able to make progress with North Korea where no other President succeeded before so kudos to him. I give credit where it is due. That said, it could also end in disaster if things don't go as planned. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.
5
I used to say that about Obamacare.
It worked alright....for a while.
1
Is it Trump though? Or is it a confluence of the likely grave economic conditions within NK after 30 years of sanctions and the election of the anti-hawk Moon in SK, which Trump just happened to Forrest Gump his way into?
At the risk of going completely off-topic, the ACA worked alright until the GOP kicked the legs out from under it by thwarting the Medicaid rollout in every state and refusing to pass any modifications that could fix issues that became apparent after its passage, content to hurt Americans just to see Obama's legacy destroyed
2
This is obviously good news. Skepticism is always healthy, but the amount of pessimism I’ve noticed regarding anything positive associated with President Trump is disconcerting to say the least. We should learn to be objective and avoid blurring our logic with the haze of emotion.
11
Sure, allow me to provide an objective and logical assessment of Donald Trump the man: he is a selfish malignant narcissist, he is a sexual pervert, he is the head of an organized crime family, he is ignorant of the history of this country and of the rest of the world, he is functionally illiterate and totally uncurious about anything not directly related to him, and he is in debt to the Russian mafia and Putin to the extent that he fears for his very life.
That is not blurry at all, right? And it is all demonstrably true through evidence and Trump's own statements and behaviors.
2
Thank you for demonstrating my point.
What exactly was pessimistic, emotional or false in what I wrote? They are demonstrably true facts.
Assuming solely for purposes of argument that Un is willing to consider giving up his nuclear arsenal, why would he assume that the US -- the Trump US -- would honor the agreement. Trump has violated all the norms that would dictate that the country honors the commitments made by prior administrations, and there are enough sharks circling Trump to make any rational person doubt that his commitments will be honored. There are already many repubicans in the Senate unwilling to say whether they'll vote for him in two years. He's like a lame duck.
5
Wow, really good point!
Let me take a shot at answering.
The "deal' would hold up because the South Koreans would be a part of it, and so would China, most of Congress both Dems and the GOP, and we would probably have a Congressional vote at some point (unlike Obama's "deal" with Iran), and the American people would be overjoyed and for one day, the East and West coast elites would untie in happiness with Midwestern conservatives.
And the only "lame duck" I'm aware of is Nancy Pelosi, in terms of polling.
3
Good shot, but I don't think so.
Many nations are parties to the other agreements that Trump is unilaterally trashing, including the climate accords, Nafta, the Iran agreement.
And congress reserved power for itself under the Iran review act so it was not unilateral.
As for congressional acts insulating any act from harm, anyone looking at the american political system can't find much solace in that either. If the vote happens after the mid-terms there will likely be a different party in power in the house.
Any objective observer would say Trump's democracy isn't a very stable one.
1
Ask yourself, why would the North Koreans want to negotiate with Trump?
Answer: EASY MARK
27
Kim Jong Un sees Trump as an “easy mark” you say? He’s the hardest mark I’ve ever seen or heard of. He’s literally the only person in the world who would still be standing under the circumstances (albeit many of which are brought on by himself).
There must be one absolute condition in any denuclearization clause of an ensuing agreement: Unfettered access -- to any facility, civilian or military -- by US -- not UN -- inspectors.
Kim Jong-un will never allow that. It would open up for world view the hundreds of thousands starving in his gulags, the tens of millions malnourished, infected with abdominal worms, in the general population
Kim’s only reason to participate is to gain recognition as a nuclear power on the world’s stage. Multiple US presidents, Republican and Democrat, understood that, and refused him that honor. Unfortunately, they also did little to thwart Kim’s ambitions.
The Iran agreement requires that Iran be notified 24 days ahead of any inspection. The result is their compliance with the fundamental purpose of the deal -- that Iran make no progress in any aspect of nuclear weapon creation -- is essentially going without verification.
That must never be repeated. Unfettered – and unannounced – access must be included.
Trump’s desperate search for respect and admiration is doomed. Kim will never accept a deal with teeth.
5
Why was Obama awarded a Nobel Peace Prize? It surely was less than this accomplishment.
7
Nothing has happened yet, so that's a very low bar.
4
Nothing has been accomplished yet. But if a peace treaty and Normalized Relations can be established with N. Korea it would indeed be quite the accomplishment. As that would probably take N. Korea agree to give up its nukes, to agree to third party inspections of nuclear facilities, and probably some better human rights for N. Koreans.
What accomplishment? This dance has been done before Trump & until I see actual results & not noise & tweets judgement is reserved. As to Obama’s award I’ve always hesitated to defend it & wont do so now. Still he’s a better man than Trump ever was or will be.
5
Kim is shrewd and power-hungry. This man as several have pointed out wants nothing more than to be recognized in the global community. If there is any credit to be given, it is to be given to South Korea which has the most to gain as well as lose living south of a tyrant. And they know their own culture. China? Yes, an important player in this strategic game of chess. And the US? Of course. But we have to use the diplomatic piece for this international game. Perhaps, Trump is moving in the right direction with his new "awakening" to the ways of the world. It remains to be seen, however, if the erratic and impulsive behavior he has revealed time and time again over a very long year and a half will be the victor over logic and good sense. Frankly, I think it is a ruse to distract the public from his self-destructive personal transgressions... But that is just an opinion.
15
We respectfully disagree. So many people have been jumping down President Trumps throat over his comments, his firings, his morally bankrupt personal behavior, etc. that maybe the President now wants to accomplish some great things like more peace in the world especially a needed thing to help him and Republicans stay in control of Congress and White House. In the meantime we hope President Trump will not forget the Syrian Democratic Forces and the reemerging new limited version of the kingdom of Greater Syria as we are now calling for Iran, Hezbollah and Russia to leave Syria. We support Egypt becoming part of peace keeping police force in Syria and recognize the government of Egypt as trustee over our Sinai province.
GovernmentKingdomSyria.com
I completely agree. South Korea is terrified of North Korea. They are operating under the Stockholm Principle. Maybe if you're nice to your tormentor they wont attack you.
It's not possible to go from full steam ahead on the Queen Mary to making a 180 degree turn on a dime. Same goes for the North Korean regime. Something's underfoot.
7
Sounds great. Hope it works out. After all Kim and Trump are just two sides of the same coin. Both of them change stances from one minute to the next. The problem is, Kim is wily and knows why and what he is doing. While Trump is clueless and has jumped to the final option without sane advice or deliberations. There are no diplomats to lay down the groundwork before the leaders meet. Of course, there is Pompeo and Bolton who have nothing but bombing as a panacea for all foreign policy. Just like egotistical Trump who trumpets that besides being a billionaire, he also achieved the Presidency ( forget the con he pulled over Americans ), equally egotistical Kim would have also pulled a victory sitting down as an equal with the leader of the Free World. Besides, the fact he can choose to just walk out without giving an inch.
2
Your 2018 Nobel Peace Prize Laureate;
Donald J. Trump
3
This will be great for our budget deficit. It could save us billions of dollars in military spending and cut down our national debt by a great deal.
2
maybe sanctions are having something to do w Kim coming around? Maybe as Kim sees S Korea, China, and others enjoying a non-exclusionary status and good times from exchanging trade and ideas, he can be a true leader to his country and bring them into the 21st century. Lots a carrots here to just get rid of a bomb.
2
I've read somewhere that the sudden drive to diplomacy on North Korea's part stems from the tunnel collapse at their last nuclear test site. Allegedly hundreds of people were killed, including possibly a large percentage of their nuclear scientists. It could be that NK wants to secure a peace treaty before it becomes known that their nuclear program isn't going to move forward, leaving them vulnerable to attack.
Whatever the reason, glad to see this happening.
5
If D.J. Trump arrives at a political deal with North Korea and makes a strike for peace on the Korean peninsula, I will hold my nose and recommend him even for the Nobel Peace Prize. If the likes of Henry Kissinger and Yasser Arafat could get it, DJT would have earned it even more justifiably. Besides, I have a suggestion for him. DJT is well known for his obsession with owning big towers( Freud, anyone?). There's an unfinished, Egyptian-built pyramidical structure in Pyongyang named Ryugyong Hotel that was meant to be the tallest hotel in the world. May be DJT's family can offer to purchase the structure and turn it into a functioning luxury hotel . Rename it as The Trump-Kim Tower by sweetening the deal with the cash-poor N.K. Never mind the conflict of interest issue. We should overlook all that if it brings peace between N.K. and America, and most of all between N.K. and South Korea.
4
Trump has already won.
3
North Korea wants the USA out of the DMZ as a first step towards unification.
And why not? How would we feel if the Russians were entrenched along the Mexican border as a "peace keeping force?" How they will break this news to Trump and South Korea remains to be seen.I think we know how Trump will react.
1
Help me; are we at war with Mexico? Is it our stated intention to occupy Mexico?
1
I wouldn't trust Kim Jong Un or Trump as far as I could throw them. KJU wants his regime and supporting upper echelons to survive and live in opulence. Secondarily he would like to reunify Korea under his control. He has to rely on China and Russia for support but probably prefers not to be subservient to them.
Trump hates that he has to face a real geopolitical conundrum. He doesn't have the knowledge, personality or temperament for complex negotiations. He won't study or rely on regional government experts, many of whom are sidelined or left in disgust. He probably doesn't really care about our regional allies or our interests there. Instead, he'll get input from people like Hannity, Bolton, and Pompeo. And make no mistake, Trump's ego and his mysterious affinity for Russia will drive his decisions.
So, I'm highly pessimistic we'll get anything much beyond agreements that are mutually face-saving and offer some degree of de-escalation. My fear is Trump will effectively abdicate our regional obligations and lay the groundwork for North Korea to dominate the south and for China to dominate the region. Or worse, fail in negotiations and feel free to pursue some type of military adventure.
Trump might participate in a historic agreement, but it will almost certainly be more by accident. If it happens it will largely be because regional actors want to sideline an unreliable and downright dangerous United States. And it will leave our role in the world diminished.
3
I don't want to seem cynical...Yeah, I do. Rather than reading this as a victory for Trump's madman tactics, I would interpret it as a sign of how much Kim wants to lure Trump to the negotiating table, which was the point of the nuclear weapons buildup in the first place. And the reason for that? Because he knows a sucker when he sees one. In negotiations the devil lies in the details, we have a "president" who thinks that everything is about personality (none better than his) and personal relationships, and you then let the little people sweat the details. However, our State Department is in a shambles, meaning the little people aren't there, and Trump wouldn't listen to them if they were. If, as Trump thinks, everything is a zero sum game, it is Kim who is winning.
10
We get it; you hate Trump. How about we wait and see what happens? I have never been a supporter of President Obama; I still wanted him to succeed in preventing the rise of violent dictators. Let’s hope President Trump succeeds in this effort. It may be a long shot but it’s a heck of a lot better than a nuclear armed North Korea.
4
As someone who despises Trump and everything he stands for, I will say that this is potentially groundbreaking and tremendous accomplishment, if true. Getting N. Korea to agree on keeping U.S. forces in S. Korea...that is something I never thought would ever happen. If anything, I actually expected and wanted all U.S. forces to withdraw in a potential peace deal, because it seemed worth it as well as the right thing to do. But keeping them there for sometime might be helpful. And if Kim Jong Un can agree to that, then we have something quite historic. We'll have to wait and see what deal Mr. Trump can get--I am extremely suspicious that he will create some foolish or unethical deal, as he often does. But for the time being, give credit where credit is due--Bravo Mr. Trump!
21
As long as you're handing out bravos, give one to Kim. All he's done is to take away one of Trump's excuses to cancel the meeting.
2
Potentiality is not reality. I understand why you want to be optimistic and believe Trump can do what no other President could do. This President can't even keep an orderly executive branch, so where does your optimism come from?
2
Not sure why we want troops there. It is a puny force, and all of our power comes from the air and sea. I’d gladly trade moving out our troops for denuclearization.
To paraphrase the international relations scholar John Mearsheimer, if the summit doesn't take place or otherwise fails, then there is a significant chance that tensions would increase to even greater levels than what we saw last year. That would be a catastrophe. Further, the chances of summit failure/non-occurrence are very high. Therefore, Trump is playing a very dangerous game by agreeing to these negotiations.
2
Except the status quo is worse. Critics fail to recognize that doing nothing carries its own set of risks. Are we better off a few years from now if NO has a large stockpile of nuclear armed missles?
1
Kim Jong-Un is no fool - he is playing both the US and China - he knows he needs US presence in South Korea to play them off against China that wants them out.
1
I fear the Trump administration will set the tone for policy regarding the Korean peninsula for decades to come. Actually no, I m not as worried today. We've gone from "Liberals need to congratulate Sec'y Pompeo on his stunning trip.... to today's: Trump will walk out if nothing happens in North Korea talks. Heck folks, Friday is a day away. So, as "usual" with this know-nothing administration its: "giddy-up, tweet and then what?"... cowboys and cowgirls!!"
1
Mr. Trump is an unstable person with a poor understanding of domestic and world affairs. He is bellicose, inappropriate and egotistical.
He also has a great gift of understanding what other people want and finding a way to give it to them. Mr. Trump realizes that whether the other person is a coal worker in Appalachia or the dictator of North Korea, their main objective is not land, power or money, but their desire to be taken seriously and treated with respect.
Mr. Kim's strategy has worked- N. Korea has become a nuclear power and must be taken seriously. Mr. Trump's strategy can also work- treat Kim as a worthy adversary and allow him to save face. By verbally insulting Mr. Kim, Trump created an opportunity for Kim to verbally insult him.
Imagine- trading insults with the President of the United States. That was the beginning of a mutually respectful relationship based on equality.
Too bad Paul Ryan couldn't figure that out.
3
This is fake news.
2
WAY TO GO, DONALD. THANK YOU , Mr. PRESIDENT.
Should Donald Trump achieve a good Denuclearization Treaty that is absolutely verifiable; he would be a greater President than Ronald reagan who undoubtedly is the greatest American president of the 2nd half of the Twentieth Century.
8
Why does Trump get credit for an agreement that doesn't exist yet when three prior presidents made agreements with this country that were immediately broken? Why didn't Obama get credit from these same people for the very successful Iran nuclear deal? Doesn't Mr. Moon deserve the most credit here since his election is what truly changed the dynamic on the peninsula? Even if we achieve an agreement here, shouldn't we wait and see the details first before applauding anyone?
10
I think the reason to give President Trump some credit is this is the first time since Clinton that has done anything with North Korea. I don’t think anyone is suggesting President Trump be praised before an agreement is signed.
2
North Korea comes to the negotiating table with the U.S. for only one reason: to try to ensure the Kim regime's hegemony over the North for another generation. Thus we have the current outreach, with a smiley face taped on for the gullible elements in the press, and the tempestuous Trump administration. This is not to say that the U.S., South Korea and China shouldn't try to see what can be obtained from Mr. Kim in the way of arms control and political moderation, but we should always keep his government's endgame, and what it means for the people of the North in mind.
1
As much as I dislike Trump we must admit that our current policy of isolating North Korea hasn't worked. If he's able to negotiate a permanent solution that normalizes relations with North Korea and integrates them with the rest of the world, we should be supportive of the effort. Our ongoing military presence abroad is expensive and prevents us from investing in our country. Peaceful solutions are always preferable to war.
10
Honestly, I'm a social democrat, but if Trump can resolve this situation without war, he deserves a Nobel Peace Prize. Results are results. So far, I'm pretty impressed by what's happening on the Korean Peninsula.
And it's true that the liberal South Korean president has contributed a lot to this state of affairs, but so too has Trump.
10
We have had agreements with North Korea before (three prior presidents already brought about that kind of result). Every agreement was then broken by the North and the US president was then blamed for agreeing to anything. Will you similarly blame Trump when the North break any agreement they make with him?
3
Will that Nobel be awarded before or after he he unilaterally cancels U.S. participation in the nuclear agreement with Iran, leading to its "full steam ahead" weapons development, the creation of a counter Saudi nuclear program, certain retaliatory measures by Israel and, finally, the expected incineration of the Middle East? Don't be "impressed" James, but scared to death with this dangerous, impulsive, and profoundly ignorant faux President in the White House.
3
This is all too easy, not to mention illogical. Past North Korean leaders have for decades led peace negotiators down a stubborn path of belligerence, while giving up virtually nothing of substance. Why would they suddenly exhibit such meek acquiescence without even the semblance of a concrete offer on the table from our current bumbling government? It's possible their madman recognizes he is dealing with a trigger happy cowboy farther over the edge than even he is. Something is afoot, Watson, and all is not as it appears to be.
11
I do think peace in Korea peninsula can happen with perfect celestial alignment. Trump is in deep doodle with the deep state and needs it for a Nobel Peace Prize. Kim needs it for a collapsing economy with China enforcing UN sanctions. U.S. is an empire which needs to station troops everywhere in the world to maintain her hegemony. Why do you think we still need troops station in Germany or England? The question is whether the deep state which wants to maintain the status quo of an empire will allow Trump to bargain for it. I suspect North Korea wants nothing more than a peace treaty which guarantee her existence, lifting of sanctions, and eventual withdrawal of American troops and reunification.
1
Constantly overlooked in this mess is the meeting Kim had with Xi. They obviously devised a way to deal with Bone Spurs and we all have to wait to see how it plays out.
4
I have a hard time believing that Putin is just sitting back and watching this unfold. Maybe I've become too cynical living under this Trump catastrophe but is it a stretch to imagine Putin offering some back channel deal sweeteners to N. Korea to help prop up his puppet?
4
Does anyone else find some irony in the fact that the same group that has been up in arms about the Iran denuclearization deal is now trying to get a similar deal with North Korea?
Personally, I think denuclearization agreements are good, regardless of whether with Iran or with North Korea.
6
But if Trump is involved, it’s bad. Anyone else, it’s good.
It's seems like the same was true for Obama too—it's just that the right was criticizing Obama and now the left is criticizing Trump. What comes around goes around, I guess . . .
But if Trump denuclearizes North Korea, all the power to him. I just wish he weren't also trying to swamp the Iran deal just because Obama negotiated that one.
1
By dealing directly with North Korea without using an intermediary, as we have already done by Pompeo's visit to North Korea, haven't we granted recognition to that regime? If so, Kim may have already achieved what may be his principal objective.
2
The art of the deal.
There seems to be a sea change in recent months in North Korea's behavior and wonder what has changed and who can legitimately take credit for the possible denuclearization of the Korean Peninsula if it happens.
2
Trump and his ego want a deal. The last thing that military contractors, along with their lobbyists and loyal politicians, want to see is a decrease in tensions on the Korean peninsula. I'll put my money on the latter winning and I'm certain that they liked Kim more before he started talking peace.
The US media is dutifully portraying even the attempt to broker a deal as extremely dangerous - as if the peninsula would be safer if Kim HAS nuclear weapons.
Another ploy the media uses is the "Kim isn't offering anything in return" message, conveniently forgetting that the whole negotiation effort began with Kim stating that N Korean denuclearization is on the table.
The only place in the corporate media where you'll read about the connection between military sector profits and the always hawkish US foreign policy is in the readers comment section.
https://www.govexec.com/contracting/2017/09/us-defense-contractors-north...
1
Friends, there’s time to ridicule the president and make witty comments on the NYTimes forums and this isn’t the time...
Trump is all we got right now and as a non-politician president he is the only credible persona to issue an ultimatum toJung Un. When Trumps gone, we’ll be back to “sanctions” and the “international community” to do our bidding. It doesn’t work and we cannot fail.
A meeting with the leader of the most powerful country in history is not a joke for Kim. He gets it even if some readers don’t. He’s scared, he knows that he will be forced to put his cards on the table, AND if he doesn’t relinquish his nuclear weapons forever he can expect an overwhelming attack by the US. What other choice do we have? May it take place in NK and not as a reaction to one on US soil.
75 years after Hiroshima the notion of nuclear weapon attack has dimmed but the danger is greater than ever. Let’s put Jung Un in his place.
We’re out of time and no one else will do it.
6
Just when we need a calm President, an experienced Secretary of State and a State Department fully staffed, we have none of these personnel. Trump had better keep his mouth shut and not torpedo the best opportunity in decades to get this solved.
2
Yawn. North Korea is not a threat to anyone. The notion that Kim would launch a nuclear first strike is laughable. He may be as unhinged as Trump but he's not going to lead NK into a nuclear wasteland. That said, Kim wants to remove current trade barriers, so now that he's created something the world wants to get rid of, he'll probably succeed, without having to agree to a bunch of other demands that would actually threaten his power. Trump is the last person we should send to negotiate. Kim will get everything he wants and give up a bunch of stuff that was meaningless to start with.
3
We get it. The last sentence of your comment is both your prediction and an expression of your fervent hope... It’s always good to know what real patriots might be thing....
We just might get a better understanding of North Korean social structure if these talks proceed toward denuclearization. If the DPRK is such a closed, controlled society, its structure must depend on the myth of some external threat. The response to that artificial threat is the development of a nuclear capability.
In relinquishing his entire nuclear force, Kim is admitting that the U.S. and the ROK are no longer threats. What is to keep his people under strict control? Denuclearization would seem to lead to a liberalization of the DPRK government. This would threaten Kim's position of absolute power in his society.
Communist regimes have fallen in the past, we might remark dryly, but their leaders didn't really whole-heartedly advocate democracy. We could ask, does Kim have a goodbye plan to a retirement on some South Pacific island?
And how is a continued U.S. presence not threatening to him if it is a "peacekeeping force"? It is a peacekeeping force to prevent attacks from North Korea, thus it seems inconsistent that the North would allow its existence. Unless, of course, the North is looking for the massive financial aid that it has always sought from the U.S.
So nothing would be gained were Trump to continue the U.S. force presence in Korea and give aid to the DPRK. The DPRK remains a threat. The real win is for them to be defanged to such a degree that we can cease paying to maintain a military force there. This is very difficult to imagine.
1
Are we not more effective supporting South Korea in negotiations, rather than making this vividly about the US? It seems as if they're heading in the right direction. We need to be part of the process, but not out on point. We've all witnessed how 45 makes deals and then fails to follow through, angering his opposition and losing out for the American citizens. The risk for the US is very high, if we send 45 in with his advisory goon squad. If only we had many seasoned and respected diplomats doing this work.
3
In regard to an opportunity to negotiate
a peace treaty with North Korea,
we should embrace the idea.
War is certainly not a good option.
Is it productive to care about who
gets "credit"? Think about the destructive
force of a nuclear war that could spiral
out of control. Think about the suffering,
starving people in North Korea. Peace
trumps war.
This is even a bigger surprise, than yesterday.
Anyone who is familiar with North Korea propaganda, its newspapers, children's programming, movies, "news", etc. are keenly aware of their distrust of the US, South Korea and Japan. They have spent decades telling their people how they are going to smash the US, Japan and unite the Korean people.
There are plenty of videos, on youtube, https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCNaH2TGwop7CHZvnj0t3yjA. Is a good start.
So, to indicate they are willing to sign a peace treaty, allow the US to keep troops in south Korea, and to even involve Japan is talks, is beyond astounding.
One has to wonder why there has been such a major reversal, considering April is the month they celebrate the birthday of Kim il-Song, and the founding of its military. This week's military parades could be very interesting to watch. This, just to see what is really going on within the KCNA propaganda mill.
Considering we are dealing with Kim, and Trump, which are both equally unpredictable, all of this is worth keeping an eye on.
6
If South Korean explanation about Kim Jong-un's unconditional talks offer is accepted what else Trump would expect from his North Korean counterpart?
Fair and free elections. Release of all American political prisoners. North Korean ones, too. Full accounting for kidnapped Japanese citizens.
Those are just for starters
The bigger issue is what else would NK demand. The trickier part is they would expect us some guarantees for the regime to survive and the question is what are we willing to give considering that this regime has a lot of blood on its hands. It is more of a moral dilemma
The question is then what the security guarantee will look like. From Iraq to Libya to Iran, the US has shown that it can flip on a dime. The only security guarantee that can replace the nukes is the stationing of Chinese or Russian troops in the North, same way the Russian presence in Syria is the guarantee for as-Assad's regime. All others will not be worth the paper they are written on. But that's so antithetical to North Korean Juche ideology, that it will be a regime suicide. It's true that the removal of the US troops doesn't guarantee their security either, but they could at least claim that they realized Juche and declare the victory for their people.
It seems to me that Kim is using the security guarantee only as a face saving measure to escape the sanction. I see the end of North Korea coming, sooner than later.
The Chinese will NEVER accept a unified, democratic and pro-Western Korea.
Period. Full Stop. This is just Kim's way of guaranteeing his continued existence, along with support from the Chinese.
2
I agree that the end of the regime is near and they are under relentless pressure with sanctions. With that said, there is a question of morality for US to give guarantees of survival to a regime that is known to be brutal and has a lot of blood on its hands
1
If there is a breakthrough in talks with North Korea, I will be delighted, although it is almost certain that Trump will get credit for it. We still don't know much about the very young Korean tyrant but I would not exclude the idea that he actually wants a de-escalation of military tensions. After all, he could lead his country toward a more open market economy with a still huge state sector and a vice-grip on all political and police power. That makes infinitely more sense than engaging in constant brinkmanship with Japan, South Korea and the US.
3
I don't know if any good will come of this, but I am suspicious that there can be any value derived from threatening to walk out on the talks (respectfully?), name calling, lying continually, threatening, and avoiding all normal diplomatic channels and available expertise.
If doing those things is the best way to achieve peace, I'll have to re-evaluate all norms of human conduct.
4
I would have loved to have been a fly on the wall in those talks Pompeo had with Kim Jong-un. SOME credible threat was made that got the Korean's attention and precipitated this action.
Seems to be brewing nicely, doesn't it?
1
Xi and Un are obviously the ones driving this meeting. We'll have to wait to see how it plays out. Yes, it's brewing but not, necessarily being driven by Bone Spurs.
2
And you trust Trump and Kim? Ha ha ha ha. Maybe they will maybe they won't. In Trump's words: We'll see.
I dislike the idea of Trump getting credit for anything, much less solving the Korean nuclear conundrum as well as finalizing the Korean War sixty-five years after hostilities ended. We will have to listen to him crow and it may soften the push to erase him from DC. Frankly, I would rather be rid of Trump than resolve the Korean frictions.
3
As a general matter, it's astonishing how many idiots walk around this country free of butterfly-nets.
6
Some are in the White House, @Richard.
4
Brilliant - forgot the removal of the threat of war that looms over South Korea and the danger of a rogue nation like NK with nukes just because you despise Trump so much. Insane.
4
Oh to have been a fly on the wall when Kim spoke with Xi. N Korea at peace gives China a new advantage in economic competition with the US. I will be happy to see nukes out of N Korea but I will be watching the drama continue as China maneuvers Trump.
9
Wow! If this happens that'd be great, but it's hard for me to imagine Kim Jong Un giving up the weapons for which he and his father are starving and have starved their people...(plus that made them feel like Manly Men). So I guess I'm tempering my "Wow!" to "Wow..?".
1
First: North Korea has always been doing this stuff basically as bribery: the more threat they can offer, the bigger payout. Of course, having stupid decision-makers around (always a possibility in human life) could actually call the buff and we'd have 0 or 1 Korean bombs trying something in America and N Korea (and most of its environs) annihilated into a poisoned, uninhanitable deadzone.
So, maybe this is the kind of crazy blustermania where DJT actually performs well...don't think there's much reality in prediction on those kinds of things.
But I do think that they same ultimate peace methodolgy could work there is anywhere else:
How do you make sure evil dudes don't sneak up and attack you from who knows where in the world? I don't know, but I am sure that if he and his famil/friends have money for a hot dog and a ticket to the game, he's NOT GOING TO RISK his life(style) attacking our heavily armed country!
Want peace: provide justice (legal and economic)
3
If Trump successfully defangs North Korea, liberal heads will be exploding all over the country.
They will not be able to withstand the cognitive dissonance they will experience.
11
Blind squirrel, nut....
1
You probably think those movies where a 10-year-old pitches for a Major League Baseball team and wins the World Series are documentaries.
3
Fine. This liberal wants to know how Trump is going to uphold both the "trust and most significantly, the "verify" part of any agreement. Is this all going to be "tremendous?"
2
What kinds of leadership personalities would I want sitting down to discuss our collective safety from nuclear armageddon? Let's see, Kim Jong-un and Donald Trump?
That scenario looks more like Kim in a rabbit suit, and chubby Trump in an Elmer Fudd hunting cap: "Be vewy, vewy quiet!....Oh, you twicky wabbit!"
"Not fwootful! Not fwootful at all!"
2
The North may not require the removal of American forces from the South,but once a peace is signed there will be no reason for them to stay. Korea has never been a country where our security interests lie. Given the huge costs to the American taxpayer of stationing our army and air force where we have no vital interests makes a departure a matter of when.
3
if NK agrees to "give up" its nukes, does that mean they could sell them, or export their development program, to some other country, or even a non-state actor?
besides an agreement that possibly won't change much, won't NK want to get some real value in exchange for all the costs they've poured into their nuclear and missile programs over the years? you can't eat nukes, after all.
North Koreans have been starved and deprived for decades to fund their enormous military and now their nuclear weapons. Kim is achieving his most desired objective: global recognition via a face-to-face meeting with an American president.
It was the demonstration of the existence of those nuclear weapons and missiles that drove such a meeting to happen. Why would Kim agree to give them up? Alternately, why would he decide to use them when doing so would result in the complete destruction of his country? He's not crazy, but he is bluffing. We have to find a way to get him to stop development of more weapons in exchange for that recognition and some form of peaceful engagement with the rest of the world.
30
Why can't Kim have his nukes and his recognition too?
Just like Israel, India and Pakistan?
How many more dose he need to annihilate our cities?
Nice work, President Trump. Accomplishing what Obama failed to do.
11
Bone Spurs hasn't accomplished anything yet. Let's wait and see. China and Un have made some kind of agreement on how to play Trump. Let's see how it plays out.
4
Just a teensy bit early to proclaim victory, wouldn't you say?
4
As Trump is fond of saying, "We shall see...."
1
North Korea de-nuclearization talks, tax cuts for businesses, China relaxing tariffs, illegal immigration down by 70%, presidential approval rating at 50% by the American people with 99% unfavorable news coverage. Just an amazing time in which we are living.
8
Trump has no idea what he’s walking into. NK is not about him, it’s a client state of China — and it has welcomed in its agreements as much as The Donald has. If illegal immigration is down that much U.S. agribusiness will come to a screeching halt — so no, that figure of yours is wrong. Don the Don’s approval rating is the lowest of any president in modern history, so I don’t know where you’re getting that number from. And last but not least, his tariffs are going to get him kicked out of office sooner than any of his other wacky actions. Farmers are already up in arms. Sorry to rain on your parade.
2
“welched,” not “welcomed”
Auto-correct, ugh!
Times article has N Korea's position somewhat backwards. It didn't suddenly "remove a key obstacle" since, as the article eventually says, US withdrawal from ROK hasn't been the North's main concern for a long time when it comes to security issues. A peace treaty guaranteed by the US, China, and ROK, an end to the US "hostile policy," and a path to normal relations and economic aid, have long been the DPRK's central demands.
1
So, the bottom line.
A man who never heard an elected office in his life is getting more done with Korea than all the diplomats and politicians in the last 60 years.
I am sure the "Russian Collusion" made all this happen.
NOT.
Time for liberals to eat some crow, Trump is trying to do what no other president has ever done, clean up Korea and the Mid East at the same time.
He could use a little encouragement.
Dare I suggest bipartisan support?
7
You expect liberals to eat some crow? It'll never happen----their hatred for the President is too deep and it overwhelms their ability to think rationally.
1
You’re totally right!! Trump has solved the North Korean situation AND brought peace to the Middle East. All with just Twitter and Jared Kushner. O God WHY can’t The Liberals just thank him for that?
3
Wow. Peace in the Middle East? I have no idea what storybook you’re reading from. As for the NK possibility — way too soon to know what it’s really about, given NK is a client state of China and its dynasty has never kept its word. Ever. Ditto for Trump.
And how do we guarantee that the US will destroy its whole nuclear arsenal in a good will gesture to the world.
1
What a pity that we are not thinking on our own of a plan to withdraw US armed forces, not only from South Korea, but from all of Asia. It needs to be done, and could be done if Japan and South Korea were givin an ultimatum to be ready to provide their own protection, whcih they are quite capable of doing. We had no business being present in The Philippines and Taiwan in the first place. Ditto Iraq, Afhanistan and Syria.
4
Gee, didn't Trump promise America First? We have troops in over a hundred countries, wasting our national treasure on a counterproductive security policy while our country burns and crumbles. They are offensive, not defensive and make us less secure by creating endless enemies. Their patrons are the corporate oligarchy which relies on them to protect their obscene wealth (Jack Reed - Warren Beatty in Reds when asked why we are sending troops to Europe in WW1' answers succinctly, "profits." I disagree with this concession, if that is what it is. Let's take those troops out of Korea, yesterday.
2
North Korea would "agree to anything" as long as they can effectively separate South Korea from the United States. This would leave South Korea extremely vulnerable to invasion by the North.
3
How will this separate SK from the US?
It would leave South Korea vulnerable to a conventional war, but primarily, removing US troops would surely open the door to China and Russia expanding their influence in the region. This would be catastrophic to US interests.
1
Why do we still have military in SK, anyway? We have spending priorities here at home that are not being addressed.
1
Because South Korea is a US ally at risk of invasion by what is still an enemy state. Like NATO confirming that the September 11 attacks on us was an attack on NATO, we are defending an ally by our presence. Not everyone knows that immediately after September 11, some of the fighters patrolling over our cities were Canadian, operating under the NATO mutual defense treaty.
There are spending priorities (insert name here) that are always waiting to be addressed. In the meantime, there are alliances that also must be addressed. Feel free to take up domestic priorities with elected officials of whichever party is in power.
3
Why are these "alliances" such a one-way street? What is SK doing for us, pray tell?
"Lets be honest...IF...and that is a HUGE IF...Trump manages to make peace with North Korea he will get ZERO credit for it from the left."
Untrue.
While I would be shocked if peace with NK is achieved, and fully expect Trump to change his mind about 20 times before ultimately walking away from any "deal," there is at least a mathematical possibility that NK and the the US can come to terms.
If that were to happen, I would be willing to give Trump some credit for the result, but not for the reason you may think. Trump has confronted Kim Jong-Un with a problem he's never faced before: a bully even stronger and crazier than he is, whose words cannot be counted on for anything. Trump obviously thinks he's being "deliberate" in his approach to NK, but his minute-by-minute course corrections are looney enough that NK doesn't know what to make of it all and, apparently, thinks the time may have come to make a deal.
In short, it's possible that Trump's random and nutty ("My red button is bigger than your red button") pronouncements on NK might be having something of an effect on Kim Jong-Un and his strategists, making them believe that the situation is so destabilized that coming to terms might be the best option.
1
One of my first thoughts when he took office was that it would be terrific if "the world's best negotiator" would think about finally getting a peace treaty to end the Korean war. I'm not sure about the advisers he's got to work with, but if it can be done, it's worth trying.
3
It would appear that the North Korean leadership is very determined
to strike a deal with the United States. Why, after unrelenting hostility
for decades have they made an about face?
My guess:
1. Kim is not stupid, he sees East Asia rising to not only First World status
but leading developed region status. Korea, Japan, China, Taiwan, Hong Kong, Singapore, Malaysia, all are moving towards not only very high standards of living but technology development that he could only dream trapped in his hermit kingdom. He has to get out, or face utter irrelevance in the region and the international system.
2. The North Korean people are not stupid. They now have limited but very real access to what is going on beyond North Korea's borders. Increasingly, they no longer worship the leader. This is very dangerous for the ruling group. One day, there could be a coup, and all of them will end up dead.
So Kim what's to end his country's isolation because seriously, that is the only way forward for North Korea.
5
' .... has persistently demanded the withdrawal of 28,500 American troops in South Korea, citing their presence as a pretext to justify its development of nuclear weapons.
' ... citing their presence as a 'PRETEXT' to justify ....' ???
Those people are crazy, aren't they? Just because we have our nuclear-armed (in early days) military forces stationed not far from their border and we loudly telegraph our intention/willingness to cause a 'regime-change' in NK, they go ahead and develop nuclear arms themselves! For what? It serves no purpose at all.
How crazy or childish can they be!
1
That’s how men think
Hard line North Korean elements may end up scuppering perceived kow towing deal through military coup including by Assassination.
3
Only because it shouldn't lead to anything major, I'm expecting we'll have a big laugh at Trump's expense if he gets suckered into this obvious trap.
Kim just wants the meeting.
THAT in itself will be a massive victory, especially after gaining nukes despite Trump's North Pacific hissy fits.
No matter what Kim says, promises or seems to do, he is not about to give up the nukes that made the so-called Leader of the Free World come running to beseech him.
My only concern is how Trump will respond to being called a Chump on the international stage.
He already got 17 of our sailors killed while trying to threateningly maneuver our navy.
4
Kim Jong-Un is not to be trusted, and Donald Trump is a fool if he thinks challenging Kim by insult is bringing him to the negotiating table. Kim wants to be recognized as a world leader and meeting with the president of the United States will give him that mantle. He wants to elevate his country to the level of World Player.
Trump is playing right into his hands, and considering how awful a negotiator Donald Trump's history shows him to be, I am not filled with confidence that our "master negotiator" will get the deal he hopes for.
Sure we all want to denuclearize NK - would it be terrific if ALL nations denuclearized? - but Donald Trump does not live in the real world and never has. He is in a bubble. In his fantasy world, he saves mankind and promotes world peace. But he's just not that kind of man.
1
What's striking to me is this: after observing what Trump is doing with the Iran nuclear deal, what the US did with Libya and what happened with Iraq, there seems to be no sensible way for the North Korean regime to believe that the US can be trusted or that its word is binding. If the North Koreans are as "paranoid" as they are made out to be, there is no way that they could miss any of this. It seems most probable that they would have to believe that the US will try to destroy them the moment it senses weakness. Could they have changed their worldview - and failed to learn the lessons of history - so completely? That seems unlikely. The only way this makes sense to me is if the North believes that a treaty with the South and with the Americans will, ultimately, lead to the Americans leaving Korea. It may not be a precondition, but it would have to be a goal of the talks. It would also be what China wants. Interestingly, with Trump, the North Koreans may have the best chance of achieving this goal, since he has expressed a lack of commitment to American regional alliances and he has already let South Korea know that he is willing to have a nuclear exchange in Korea, so long as the US is unaffected. At the very least, whatever is going on here has several levels of engagement.
2
This is ALL theatre. N.Korea with or without nukes is not a threat.
Kim Jong-un and his entourage know that if they so much as shoot a bullet towards S.Korea, Japan or any other Asian nation, let alone the US,
N.Korea will be totally wiped off the face of the earth.
This drama is all about Trump showing-off how he can play at bullying a small, albeit, a very bad nation.
Trump likes to pick on little communist nations like Cuba, N.Korea, while they pander to powerful ones like China and Putin.
DRS wrote (below):
"If Trump is able to solve the Korean problem that has plagued leaders for 70 years, a big if, he will deserve a Nobel Peace Prize far more than Obama did for what, getting elected? And the entire establishment on both sides will owe him an apology."
Yes, you're correct about this.
However, we haven't seen a single shred of evidence that any of the progress that's being made is due to Trump. All Trump has done was empty bluster and threats. Trump had nothing to do with the NK presence at the Olympics. Trump had nothing to do with brokering the talks between NK and SK.
I'll give Trump credit for it if he deserves it. However, merely being president when something happens doesn't earn him any credit for it (no matter how much he and his rabid but ill-informed supporters bloviate).
3
Kim could be afraid for his life and is looking to escape. There has to be a large number of true believers he has no control over. It must be stifling and scarey.
Trump, with all of his rough talk and bravado, may yet pull this off.
If N Korea agrees to denuclearization, I think that it is something that all Americans should celebrate - regardless of ideology.
1
He couldn’t even run a mail order steak business but yeah, maybe he’ll successfully negotiate denuclearization of the Korean Peninsula.
2
Who are we conning here? Obviously not North Korea, Japan, or China.
North Korea has absolutely no credibility and the regime will never truly "de-nuclear" as long as the Kim family is in power. It is just a bargain chip to get free money from the UN every decade or so.
Just another con from the government on the American people.
The problem with this or any negotiation involving Trump is that he is compulsively untruthful. Trump hides his fear of commitment to anything by causing an upset. By throwing a wrench into the works. There is no reason to think he will grow up, and every reason to believe he won't. It is unfortunate . What has transpired during the Trump presidency shows people behind the scene moving the agenda while Trump bumbles and shows near complete ignorance of what is going on. But this North Korea initiative would not have happened had North Korea not seen opportunity in Trump. That could be good for all concerned, including what so far is a failed Trump presidency.
Every one accuses North Korea of breaking its promise. But what about US breaking its promise.
https://www.smh.com.au/opinion/north-korea-and-americas-long-history-of-...
Excerpts :
"North Korea and America's long history of broken promises to find peace
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In 1994, the US and North Korea signed the "agreed framework", the main objectives of which were to: keep the North within the treaty; replace the North's indigenous graphite-moderated reactors (and stop covert enrichment) with two proliferation-resistant 1000-megawatt-electric light-water reactor power plants; and work towards normalising relations.
Soon after the agreement was signed, the US Republican Party, which opposed the agreement, gained control of Congress. Even so, American nuclear engineers were in North Korea until 2002. Only when it became clear that the US was not going to honour its commitment to provide the promised two light-water reactors did North Korea expel the Americans, renounce the treaty and its obligations, and resume its nuclear weapons program"
1
While we're at it, lets denuclearize the U.S.
1
Considering the Clinton/Albright "Agreed Framework" debacle in 1994, we should enter any negotiations with the default position that N. Korea is not being honest and has ulterior motives.
However, this is a somewhat hopeful start.
I hope some good comes out of the talks between Trump and Un. It seems like a major coup for Un to meet with Trump. The brutal leader of tiny North Korea gets to meet with the leader of the US.
I hope the POTUS is aware that Un will probably try some nefarious tricks? Un has everything to gain and not much to lose in the negotiations.
.
22
How could 'little rocket man' baffle and befuddle the 71 year old 'dotard' who claims to be really smart and well -educated with any 'nefarious tricks'?
Kim Jong-un is certainly doing his best to raise expectations. But, given that both he and Donald Trump are two very untrustworthy deal makers with Trump already setting up a"scrap those plans" scenario, we should be extremely cautious about being overly optimistic. With extreme hawks like MIke Pompeo and John Bolton now advising Mr. Trump who has shown more ability to break deals than make them, it would be a minor (maybe even, major) miracle worthy of a Nobel Peace Prize if they actually succeeded in a plan to denuclearize the Korean peninsula allowing U.S. troops to remain in the South and a peace plan to boot. As for now, we can only hope while remaining "defensive pessimists."
Beware of the promise that is not a promise, or the concession that is not a concession. North Korea, in return for essentially recognizing the status quo in South Korea, gets sanctions lifted, which is presumably their immediate goal.
Well, why bother with negotiations if that is the deal? Just unilaterally lift sanctions. It gets you essentially the same place, and it gets you there quicker with less pain.
It is easy, and quite common, for sales people and skillful negotiators to essentially offer something that is worthless and make it seen like an important concession. Be aware of the tactic.
Recognizing the status quo in return for the other side actually doing something is not a good deal.
That being said, it is probably just a good step to have a peace treaty and go from there.
3
An opening concession (which in this case is something the US would never agree to anyway) is regardless a good sign that a negotiation in good faith is possible. Will NK agree to give uo their nukes? Highly unlikely, maybe even 0% chance. But they could agree to non proliferation, Strategic Nuclear Arms Control. The North has nukes, they now need to be dealt with on a more level playing field and the hot rhetoric and fear of use of nuclear weapons subsides. The downside is the repressive NK regime stays in place and thrives as sanctions are lessened and trade between north and south opens up. Maybe they can grow into a responsible nation and their people no longer need to suffer. Only time will tell.
1
I think Kim is genuinely sincere in this. Suppose for a second that he is not an inherently awful person and inherited a terrible situation from his father. What are his options?
He was born into a familial dictatorship with enemies on all sides. If he shows any signs of weakness to the outside world, he risks losing everything he has and spending the rest of life in prison. If he shows weakness within his country, or tries to shake things up too much, he risks a military coup and execution. His response makes logical sense: knowing that the US will not risk a direct military strike so close to China, he has developed international leverage in the form of nuclear weapons.
In exchange for giving up those weapons, he will ensure his own international security without looking weak to the rest of the NK elite. A peace treaty and international aid would give him more legitimacy as a leader, something he clearly wants if his talks with China are any indication.
3
Ha!
Did you look into his eyes and see his soul, or did you ask him twice in two completely different ways?
2
Caution. Getting North Korea to verifiably denuclearize is almost impossible. Their regime raison d’être is having nuclear weapons. This is like asking the Soviets to pull the Red Army out of Eastern Europe under the so-called Brezhnev Doctrine of the 1960-80’s.
4
What happens when US removed its troops from S Korea and dismantle military alliance? NK will start military provocations with impunity, SKorea will go down the path of S Vietnam within the few years and the US would have wasted the 55000 lives given in the Korean War, and hand Chinese and NK a nice victory. Absolutely unacceptable.
2
"What happens when US removed its troops from S Korea and dismantle military alliance?"
Who is proposing anything like that? Did you even read the article?
It literally states the opposite of your hysterical hypothetical. This zero-sum, can't let China "win" mentality is childish.
2
So China have forced N Korea into talks and Trumps claiming it. Hilarious.
5
China has provided cover for Kim.
Kim just wants the meeting that all of our previous Presidents have been too wise to take.
If Trump is able to solve the Korean problem that has plagued leaders for 70 years, a big if, he will deserve a Nobel Peace Prize far more than Obama did for what, getting elected? And the entire establishment on both sides will owe him an apology.
9
Are you sure it won't go to Pence and Ivanka for their Olympics bravado?
Indeed. If Trump can get Kim to get rid of all nukes in six months, agree to total denuclearization and have surprise inspections ANYWHERE in N. Korea with 24 hours notice, then I agree. I'm not exactly holding my breath, however.
Don't worry. By tomorrow Trump will have changed his mind about everything and start doing the exact opposite of what he said today.
The tea party populists, Palin, Bannon, Bush II & DJT are not neo- or paleo-cons; they’re just deluded. The legacy of their foreign policy – on the pretense of “getting tough,” scrapping the Agreed Framework (de-nuclearization in exchange for USDA food bought from farmers & scheduled to be destroyed) is that that PDRK cannot now be defeated or de-nuclearized. The mature nuclear weapons program that necessarily resulted from Bush II’s withdrawal from the Framework requires that USA now insure PDRK totalitarianism in perpetuity. e.g., Bush II lost the Korean War. The net effect of the Bush Doctrine is that USA must shift alliances and change the geo-political map. USA must form a military alliance with S Korea, Japan and PDRK and establish a new joint base in international waters. e.g., the Spratley Islands. Only that, along with TPP, can establish a geopolitical map for the next 50 years that can both 1) remove the PDRK threat by getting intimate with their evil, and 2) act as a counterweight to China’s declared 2039 goal to be effective regional or international hegemon. Crazy? Have you heard a better idea?
1
China wants the US out of Asia and that’s exactly what they get out of this deal. We’re becoming a waning power.
8
Until the Soviet Union collapsed no one including American intelligence saw it coming. Until Germany was reunited no one could see it ever happening. By going nuclear North Korea got America's attention.
By impeaching and removing their corrupt American puppet President and electing a moderate patriot to replace her South Koreans took control of their own destiny and future. There is only one historical ethnic sectarian Korea divided by socioeconomic political and educational civil strife backed up by competing foreign powers. Unification of the two Koreas has to be the ultimate guarantee of peace and prosperity.
Right.
And you think the Kim dynasty will abdicate the throne to make way for the clearly more successful and prosperous S. Korean government?
Mr. Kim indicates he desires "an end to hostilities against their country" His rhetoric reads more like an accusation than a peace offering.
2
This is perhaps understandable given that we bombed their country to smithereens during the Korean War, have troops massed at their border, and conduct war games annually.
Wonder what Trump's rhetoric would be like were he in the same position.
Mr. MacArthur under Mr. Trump?....I would rather not go there.
9 months ago, without provocation Mr. Trump placed restrictions on travel and commerce to Cuba. Now, Mr. Kim rattles his saber and Mr. Trump wants to talk...nice. We are being hoodwinked it seems.
Not sure if this was the biggest obstacle. Probably a bigger obstacle would be a North Korean demand for an apology of any sort for the American bombing campaign that ended up essentially obliterating Pyongyang and killing nearly 3 million North Koreans in the Korean War. Even if Kim Jong-un proposed giving up all weapons short of slingshots this would no doubt be sufficient to send our President straight out the door, pulled by the ear by an outraged John Bolton, cheered by Hilary Clinton, notoriously on record that "we don't want a unified Korea."
If I were Kim and really wanted to stick it to America, I'd save the money and forget Nukes and let it appear the devil Trump pulled off the politically impossible. That would blow up America ten times worse than anything they could put on the end of a missile.
3
I wonder if this isn't Xi's ploy. Command Kim to throw Trump and the GOP a bone, thus helping them retain control of the government so they can continue to drive the country into the ground with bad fiscal and social policy. We'll tear each other apart without Xi having to lift a finger. America retracts further from the world stage, and China assumes dominance of the Pacific.
Talk is cheap. Saying that you'll talk about something isn't the same as agreeing to it. This process has a long way to go, and is being driven by two of the world's most unstable and fickle leaders.
11
Obama said the number one threat facing the nation was N.Korea and its nukes but couldn't do anything about it because he backed down from his own redline to Animal Assad. Weak.
Trump plays hardball: insults Kim via Twitter, sends 3 carriers at once to the area (first time in decades), pressures China to stop trade with N.Korea, strikes Syria/Assad multiple times where Obama refused, deploys THAAD antimissile defense in S.Korea (not accomplished under Obama), and killed hundreds of Russian soldiers (disguised as mercenaries) in Syria. Guess what? Kim notices.
The Times derides Trump as a warmonger, but of course no reporter has ever negotiated a significant deal in their lives.
So of course Trump is getting results now. Amazing developments here. Does the Times give any credit to Trump in this article or future articles? Heck no. That's ok.
5
As usual, Trump is a con man who gets no results, but claims success anyway.
4
Obama "backed down" from Syria because he could not get Congressional approval -- the same approval Trump tweeted back then Obama absolutely should not act without but which he himself bypassed.
4
@Karen - Libs need to learn to judge Trump by what he does rather than what he says. Because if you haven't noticed yet, he says whatever and anything depending on his mood of the hour.
If you look at what he has actually done though - he didn't seek Congressional approval like Obama. He just went ahead and bombed Assad, which was the better approach.
1
Why shoulder the expense of keeping US troops in SK given NK’s superior I’ll try capabilities ? Isn’t that why we have a blue water Navy and global reach bomber fleet to strike from home ? How much better off we’d be spending the billions and billions back home.
How about verification that the United States won't be cheating by sneaking nuclear weapons back into the Korean peninsula? It was the US who first secretly introduced them back in the 1950s.
If Trump and South Korea can pull off a deescalation of the extreme tension with North Korea, it should be recognized as a major accomplishment. The US will need to give up something. We have had on-going war games with South Korea for many years. The North and China have always pointed to these as being provocative. Throttling these back would be an easy way to deescalate from our side.
45
And it would save the US a fortune. Cost of all those troops in South Korea and Japan? Billions per year.
1
If this administration can bring about an agreement with N Korea to discontinue its nuclear program, that would be great. I sincerely hope that it happens. However, even if it does happen, and even if Trump plays an active role in the process....it doesn't erase all of the awful policies he's championing, the damage he's doing to our democracy and the Mueller investigation.
43
Now that North Korea has the capacity to launch Nuclear weapons, having troops on the peninsula is irrelevant. Our nuclear deterrent on submarines and airbases in Japan and Okinawa provide enough tactical power to deal with the North even without Aircraft carriers that are on station year around in Asia. Any troop withdraw is a win for Kim Jong-un. I think we are way off on any deals on the peninsula. Is there any one plan that would satisfy everyone?
5
the democrats are undermining the Pompeo nomination with a total disregard for our country i.e. pathetic liberal anti- trump politics continues
2
It doesn't make any sense to me. To make a concession of this magnitude up front, and denying themselves such an important leverage to finalize talks later on?
I smell rat here.
26
Seeing as Kim just took his first ever field trip to China, what if the Chinese offered him a sweet deal in return for offering concessions, but demanding that the big, bad US remove its scary nukes from that region... ships, aircraft, etc.
Sounds like that helps Chinese strategy immensely....
Two terrible leaders -- both needing a win -- organized with the aid and blessing of China and Russia, creates a big buzz and photo-op with little substance in the long term.
Transpacific bread and circus.
12
Beides, Kim has at least 30 years of ruling ahead of him. He can wait, Trump is becoming desperate for success....
That reasoning is most likely correct. He gets handed a little perceived "win" here and there, NK talks, tariff concessions, missile strike, etc. of no long-term consequence. The purpose being to keep him right where he is for the benefit of the other powers.
It will be delusional to think that NK will give up it's nuclear capability without demanding major, possibly unacceptable reciprocical compromises from the US - S.Korea alliance. NK has been fooling US for 20 years. Extreme sustained economic sanction and possibly military intervention, are the only feasible options.
2
You clearly don't understand how the world works.
1
Luke,
I agree, after 8 years of murdering his opposition, 30 years of building nukes and rockets, Kim is supposed to give it up because of few "rocket man" tweets?
Trump is "all hat and no cattle", everyone in NY knows that. Putin figured that out long time ago and is likely advising Kim on his moves.
1
How about that? What Obama filed to do by appeasing North Korea and Iran, Trump is now doing with his hard ball actions. Sometimes negotiating requires the ability to say no.
4
The issue has been going on for 60+ years and numerous presidencies from both sides of the aisle. It makes no sense to ding Obama and praise Turmp, as nothing successful has come out of this just yet. I hope something successful does come out, and if so it would be a feather in Trump's cap, but why ding Obama in that case - to be vindictive?
22
Nothing's happened yet, so it's a bit premature to spike the ball.
My prediction is the only real outcome will be North Korea's long desired validation as a nuclear power, which will put it in the same league as the U.S. and other member of the nuclear 'club.'
Kim Jong Un is playing Trump to gain legitimacy (something other prior presidents have recognized and refused) — he has no plans of giving up his nukes.
127
But Obama did negotiate a deal with Iran, one that the entire world accepts, including many, many Americans, both experts and the general populace.
So the question isn't whether or not you can get "a" deal, but whether you can get a viable, verifiable, effective deal.
America under Obama did that. We'll see if America under Trump can do the same.
And note that in both processes, this is something that involves thousands of people, armies, taunts, threats, boycotts, embargoes, negotiations, missteps, allies, and consensus. It's not a "Wow, Obama-Trump is a genius, he did it all" kind of thing.
88
I loathe Trump but I will say this: virtually everyone in the mainstream media and foreign policy establishment said that Trump was making a grave mistake with his bellicose rhetoric towards North Korea.
Turns out, Kim needed to really really fear the consequences of continuing his nuclear buildup and Trump made him believe those consequence would be catastrophic.
This is the most significant diplomatic breakthrough with North Korea since the Korean War
8
'This is the most significant diplomatic breakthrough with North Korea since the Korean War'
Except it's not. Remember, this is Trump we're talking about... he's King Midas in reverse.
1
This is a new type of president. He is not willing to sit idly by (as Obama did), while North Korea threatens our country--and its neighbors.
But here is the trap Trump may very well fall into: in attempting to solve this threat (for the world), anything less than 100% success will be labelled a failure by Democrats--and their supporters in the main stream media--including this publication.
Trump is taking the chance, that by virtue of attempting to fix the problem, a liberal dog-pile awaits him. He will get not an ounce of credit--for simply making an honest run at it. Given that, one wonders...if he should have bothered at all--if he wouldn't have been better off to continue the politically safer Obama-era policy of doing nothing.
Whether you support Trump or not--one can't help but feel a little uncomfortable, that a sizable portion of our own citizenry--including 95% of the media, is actively rooting against any form of foreign policy success. But one thing is certain: if he is successful in denuclearizing the peninsula, and improving international relations with North Korea, it will be so picked apart by the Left, as to make it seem like a failure.
Trump can have the job. I don't know of any rational person who would want it.
6
Yes, Trump is walking into Kim's trap. Once ringht wing propaganda and half of American public becomes invested in potential "success", it will be almost impossible for Trump to walk away, even with a lousy and not verifiable agreement. Kim is dangling a bait in front of "great negotiator". Let's wait for the situation to conclude with the agreement. Right now we have nothing yet, and all negotiations are actually run by SK.
4
When you make inflammatory comments like that it is hard to take you seriously. You are blaming the Obama administration, when this problem has existed for 60+ years through numerous Repub and Dem administrations. I for one am not rooting against policy success and am not seeing that in the articles I'm reading. I hope it works out.
10
The deep-rooted scepticism that surrounds ANY talks with North Korea has less to do with Trump's abilities than the Mt. Everest sized problem that is the stabilization of the Korean Peninsula (particularly while the Kim regime is in power).
That said, to heap expectations on such an incurious POTUS who doesn't seem interested (or knowledgeable) about foreign affairs is folly. Trump cares about a 'win' — or more specifically, the appearance of a win — more than hammering out the minutiae of a deal that would require real concessions.
Trump's fabled 'deal-making' has already been exposed for the sham it is. Why should this be any different?
99
If history can repeat itself, caution is required in light of the 1973 peace accords in Vietnam with a nasty communist regime that saw the US leave and invading North Vietnamese forces two years later overrun the South after congressional Democrats tied President Ford’s hands and refused to allow the US to support the South during the invasion.
2
If that history does repeat itself, a unified Korea will eventually be our ally as a unified Vietnam is now.
2
What business did we have in S. Vietnam propping up a dictator ?
1
Not an ally and still a dictatorship installed over the bones of millions.
One would think, from his rhetoric, that Trump would want to bring the troops home. He's complained about the cost before.
Trump is being played, Bigly. By CHINA. Yes, that China, the one he disparaged constantly during the campaign. This will NOT end well.
21
Trump is offered honey up front. If Mueller investigation goes as expected, Trump will desperately need some international success. Kim is setting this up for him now.
American right wing propaganda is already falling for this scheme and making it more difficult for Trump to walk away from the table without any agreement.
2
While most reasonable people want there to be peace on the Korean peninsula, it is sad that some, driven by their hatred of Trump, seem to prefer that it all fail just to prove some weird point.
3
I would gladly welcome progress with North Korea. This will NOT be it. Check back with me in Six months, or a year. China is behind this, they want the USA completely OUT of Asia. PERIOD.
1
The change of heart by Kim Jong-un is being orchestrated by Vladimir Putin. Jung-un in greatly beholden to Russia for trade, nuclear technology and rocket science. Putin wants to make Trump appear to be a thoughtful leader by arranging this meeting in order to put Trump in a better position for the 2018 elections.
Putin is also toning down his rhetoric on criticism of sanctions imposed by the U.S. as though he were kowtowing to Trump. Putin knows there is a good chance that Trump will lose control of the house and with that may be removed from office. It would be a shame for Putin to have the strings of his Donald puppet.
6
This is very likely given the "softness" Trump has for Putin. Besides, Putin has much better understanding of psychology of western societies and can manipulate them accordingly. Expect Russian trolls all over the social media selling the ongoing talks as a huge success for the West. Until, of course, midterms....
I think it more likely that Kim Jong-un had some sense beaten into his head on his recent trip to China.
It looks like the rendezvous Un and Xi had a couple of weeks ago has left Un in a weakened position.
Let’s not forget that N.Korea is a client state of China. Without China’s total underwriting, the Kim dynasty could never have survived. China does not want hundreds of thousands of Koreans running across its border. It also has found it very convenient to have a buffer between capitalist S. Korea — a state worse to its citizens than it is. So that has always been the deal.
The Twitterer-in-Chief has nothing to do with Un’s repositioning. It only looks like two crazies might make a sanity.
3
Something fishy about all this.
China is the wild card and nothing happens without its involvement. Trump may offer to rescind the tariffs on China to win its approval but China is playing chess while Trump is playing pick up sticks. Trump handed Asia to China by withdrawing from the TPP; its not going to let him back in without paying a heavy price.
Trump's raging insecurity is even more pronounced in foreign affairs where he stoops for everyone. We could end up with an awful deal while Trump tweets about his "great relationships" with Kim and Xi.
59
'We could end up with an awful deal ... '
But what is the big fuss?
Ok, we sign a deal today, so? If we think we did not get a good deal, we just back out tomorrow. Done.
Am I not right, Mr. President?
The last time that American troops rolled up to the Yalu border border between North Korea and China Mao Zedong was unable to restrain a million Chinese 'volunteers' who rose up to eject them. Xi Jinping will likely have a similar problem.
There is no military solution to the socioeconomic political educational civil war that divides one historical ethnic sectarian Korean reality. There is no North nor a South Korea. South Korea and Japan do not intend to be American battlefields. Both Koreas were once part of the Japanese Empire. Japan killed 30 million Chinese during World War II.
1
China is the reason Kim is going to work to ameliorate this mess. The economic link they disabled has caused far more damage to the North Korean economy than anything the US has done and as long as they continue to force North Korea to deal more civilly with the US, South Korea and Japan and with a real long-term commitment to eliminating their possible exposer to an angry Kim there is not much Trump can actually do.
To judge by these comments, a lot of people are going to have red faces when Donald Trump goes to Oslo to pick up his Nobel Peace Prize.
2
Sadly, if and when a true peace emerges, the awarding of a Nobel to Trump is unlikely in the extreme. They simply couldn't bring themselves to do it. This from the group who awarded a Peace Prize to a newly minted Obama for doing absolutely nothing of any consequence outside of some speeches.
4
I hope it does work out, but we are a long way from that happening.
What right does the country that has the largest nuclear arsenal in the world and the only country to use nuclear weapons to demand that North Korea “denuclearize”?
The U.S. with its its invasions, coup d’etats, and proliferation of weapons of mass destruction is the greatest danger to Humanity.
M
2
Ahh yes, the Hate/Blame America First position in a nutshell.
4
Four premises that seems obvious to me:
1. North Korea will never give up its nuclear program.
2. North Korea will never free its citizens
3. North Korea desperately needs cash
4. Trump desperately needs to distract Americans from his disaster of a presidency,
preferably something that creates the illusion that he is superior to Obama.
Given these premises, the only logical result will be a kind of theater. North Korea will walk away
with cash. Trump will walk away with nothing. The rush of appearing important for a few days was all he really needed.
37
setting aside politics for a moment this is possibly a great moment.
It is actually possible that Trump's get tough rhetoric and a tightening of sanctions actually have worked.
On a side note it's very interesting that N Korea has advanced nuclear weaponry but no plane to take it's leader very far.
9
Maybe he'd agree to denuclearization in exchange for airplanes.
3
"But Mr. Moon said North Korea was already showing a willingness to make concessions."
And the US? Negotiation requires movement on both sides.
As for US troops in South Korea, this article makes it sound as if the real issue to the US is a strong military position in the larger Northeast Asia military theater, using South Korea as a base against China and Russia and independent of any domestic political issues in Japan. To the extent that is the case, I'd prefer to bring them home. I don't want the US to garrison the world at my expense with our kids.
22
Every one on here knows better. Just like Barack Obama.
If the nation listened to the NYT and its acolytes (like it did for the last administration), we'd have rogue states running loose. And we do.
Time to admit that maybe you don't know better, book-smart peanut gallery...
3
"Time to admit that maybe you don't know better, book-smart peanut gallery..."
And you do?
"we'd have rogue states running loose. And we do."
Indeed -- The US and Israel leading among them. As for Syria, that is one of their victims.
3
Call me skeptical, but Kim Jong-un doesn't just give away these conditions so easily. I seriously doubt he will agree to dismantle his nuclear weapons. These talks aren't going to go smoothly. He will make unreasonable demands that the South Koreans can't live with.
13
After spending last 8 years solidifying his position by murdering his opposition, and building arsenal of nukes and rockets, Kim is likely setting a trap here by creating optimism in public expectations on the West. He hopes to create a situation where Trump and American public become so invested in having an agreement that he will be able to extract concessions without eliminating all nukes. Besides, I do not believe that he won't be able to hide significant portion of his arsenal.
'Call me skeptical, but Kim Jong-un doesn't just give away these conditions so easily.'
Are you totally discounting the possibility that Kim is as unhinged as Trump?
1
The Peacocks are strutting and flashing their feathers. It would be so much more productive if these talks were low key and only involved North and South Korea. Since we never "Declared War" during the Korean Conflict in the first place, declare this conflct over and go home.
11
Just as the Soviet Union collapsed from decades of authoritarian stagnation, North Korea is collapsing from decades of authoritarian stagnation.
The right loves to give credit to St. Reagan for the collapse of the Soviet Union, but the reality is that the moral, intellectual and economic bankruptcy of Soviet ideology collapsed the Soviet Union, not American flag-waving and a bloated Defense Budget charged to our national credit card and the middle class.
North Korea is finally collapsing on the weight of its own bankrupt cult-of-personality Dear Leader ideology.
Daycare Donnie serendipitously happens to sitting and Tweeting in the Oval Office at the time of North Korea's inevitable economic collapse.
Let North and South Korea end their long cruel and pointless separation and reunify as the one Korean people they truly are.
And then let's work on reunifying America and jettison our own bankrupt cult-of-personality Dear Leader ideology that has turned 40% of American into Snake Oil and Fake News stooges.
Peace and reunification in Korea and peace and reunification in America; let the idiots and Dear Leader cults take all the credit they want.
160
Then again, after the weakness and accommodation of Democrats towards the USSR during the ‘70s and ‘80s, without the strength of Ronald Reagan, Margaret Thatcher, and Pope JP II, the USSR would still be in business.
4
EGD...wishful militaristic thinking.
Authoritarianism and corrupt communism always fails on its demerits; just give it time and it fails.
But keep waving your guns and missiles if it makes you feel good.
9
They are back in business, if they ever really went out, only this time it is the gangsters and the oligarchs who call the shots. People are still dirt poor, they are still breathing noxious air from Chernobyl, still held to ransom. How you can paint such a glowing picture is beyond me. All that happened was that wealth transferred from nationally owned infrastructure to private hands, then with the aid of well-connected foreigners that colossal wealth was hived off abroad. Read The Panama Papers.
3
Lets be honest...IF...and that is a HUGE IF...Trump manages to make peace with North Korea he will get ZERO credit for it from the left.
Why bother covering this story. You are just going to throw it back into his face.
The left is terrified he pulls this off. They are scared to death.
30
As a person from the left, I really hope that Trump and his administration can see this negotiation to a positive end. Trump has touted his deal making skills throughout his career and on the campaign trail. I sincerely hope that peace on or peaceful reunification of the Korean peninsula occurs in my lifetime. If Trump and his administration helps that process along, then I'm happy to give credit where credit is due.
130
He might get some credit if there was evidence that he influenced the process. RIght now, I see little positive influence from Trump. Most of the impetus seems to have come from Moon and from the exposure of the Olympic games. But who knows, maybe I'm naive, and trading insults actually does get better results than actual diplomacy.
61
Are you kidding me? As a blue-blooded, liberal democrat there is nothing on Earth I would love to see more than the situation in Korea be resolved within the presidency of Donald Trump.
Does it matter what percentage of the credit Donald Trump deserves? No. What matters is that one of the most volatile situations on the planet will come to a peaceful end.
Nobody is going to throw this in his face, and certainly nobody is terrified that "he pulls it off", if anything those of us on the Left will look at the situation with nuance and realize that it took the efforts of millions to make this happen. All parties involve deserve credit, and if Donald Trump makes concessions (something he has yet to offer) then he will be no different. Peace in Korea is good for America and the world, I place that significantly ahead of what is best for my political party.
What will absolutely be thrown back in his face is if his Twitter diplomacy causes the talks to fall apart, or worse yet puts the United States in a disadvantageous position going forward.
296
As is his wont, Donald Trump is taking all the credit for any improvements in our relationship with North Korea. However, the contributions of Moon Jae-in should not be discounted.
43
It is true, it seems that NK-SK talks happened in spite of Trump, not because of him. Or, if Trump gets any credit for this, Trump's constant war mongering scared both sides to talks.
Would you please enlighten us with the names of presidents who, in like circumstances, would not also take all the credit? Certainly not the vain Obama. It's the nature of politics and history, hear and abroad.
4
How was Obama vain? At least in a way that made him allegedly "more" vain than any other president?
1
Of course the people in North Korea are hearing that their Dear Leader has brought the U.S. to it's knees with their great army and nukes. Then, if a treaty is agreed to, NK will take the economic assistance, and cheat on the deal for as long as they can get away with it. Been there, done that. I don't hold out much hope for success, but of course we have to try. Just hope we can get more transparency this time.
As far as potential reunification, I doubt Un wants to give up any of his power, or let his people know what is really going on in the world.
17
In a related article on the summit, the NYTimes discusses where they should meet. Since Kim has his slow, armored train, the answer is simple. China should host the summit in Quigdao. This ultra-modern city with its seaside parks, Olympic sailing venue, 1st rate hotels and foods, and the best beer in China, is an overnight train ride from Pyongyang. Kim will love the place, and Trump, when he sees it, will want to build a tower there.
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China - or Russia - are the last two places where negotiations should take place. The mere lack of security from eavesdropping and monitoring would make such a choice foolish in the extreme.
1
To George S -
Lack of Security? In the current cyber-arms race there is lack of security form the Oval Office to the hotel room Trump stayed in in Moscow. Over here it is the NSA/CIA and Facebook listening and watching, and elsewhere the FSB ir China or whomever. First, download your complete Facebook personal information file, look at the security cameras all around you in any major city, work, as I did while consulting, behind the Great Firewall of China, consider the history of the Stuxnet virus, and then tell us about "eavesdropping and monitoring". As the CIA likes to say, 'If more than one person knows something, it is not a secret'.
2
I'm not saying we don't have lots of challenges here, Tom, but there is no doubt that China - especially on their home soil - would make every effort to spy on the proceedings and all of our representatives. The main point is, why make it easier for them?!?
1