Words of peace are always welcome, as is recognition of Israel's ancestral, many thousands of years of history in Jerusalem.
Let the olive branch be grasped by all parties. Anti-semitism in schoolbooks should be outlawed.
As in Ireland, it only by those who have engaged in violence publicly renouncing it will there be a peaceful future for both Palestinians and Israel.
11
As long as the Saudis back the Palestinians' equal right to "their own land" and a just two-state solution, what's not to like? But do they? Or are they now so threatened by much larger Iran that they are happy to throw the Palestinians under any apartheid bus Likud Israel has in mind?
7
Will Hamas sit down and talk with Israel?
7
Apartheid???
Where are the separate bath rooms & water fountains?
Why are there Arabs in the Israeli Parliament & on the Israeli Supreme Court?
17
Looks like the next Mid-East war will be Saudi-Israel vs Iran-Iraq and Shia militias. The hard part will be keeping Turkey, Russia and the US from getting into a shooting war. Good luck with that. Should be fun.
4
I am sorry, but war is definitely not "fun".
2
As usual, US and its allies are betting on the wrong horse in the middle east. This love affair with yet another eastern arm-twisting, ruthless dictator defies logic and runs contrary to our strategic goals.
9
Saudi Arabia is making peace with Israel and United States is making peace with North Korea.
As the Chinese say, may we live in interesting times.
7
Any opening of relations where there was hostility can be a good thing. But the reasons here are a bit dubious. The most obvious is they both have it in for Iran. And the Saudis want to keep that Iranian oil off the market as much as possible. But the kingdom is worried about long term finances. While Israel has depended on Saudi Oil somewhat in the past, maybe eventually the Prince thinks they could sell Israel more, and with less hassle.
5
This time it has almost nothing to do with oil.
Has to do with Iran-instigated or empowered malicious and horrific crimes against humanity in Mid East and threats to one's very survival.
Israel is producing her own oil.
The enemy of my enemy...
Not too many have ever been fans of KSA, but her survival as a country is threatened by Iran, which now has helped to ravage and/or take control of Syria, Iraq, Lebanon, Yemen, Gaza, and has a new ally in Erdogan, at least for now.
4
Looks like the Israeli lobby has found a shill in Saudi Arabia to stir the pot. I wonder how the Saudi people feel about his comments.
Destabilizing the Mideast continues apace...the fawning interviews, the softball questions, and his anointment as savior.
10
The truth is that the Palestinians have been spending about $300 million of donor funds intended for poor law-abiding Palestinians including young children on supporting terrorists and terrorist families that are in jail. The Palestinians name schools and streets after terrorists.
The Taylor Force Act, named for former US soldier and MBA non-Jewish student that was killed by a Palestinian terrorist is moving through Congress. This act prohibits US tax money for use to incentivize Palestinian terror.
The most important thing that can help the Palestinians, is to have elections which were last held in 2006 and were supposed to have been held in 2010. The newly elected government must renounce terror by ceasing the payments to terrorists and their families and then and only then can some sort of peace agreement be negotiated.
It is totally unrealistic to expect Israel to negotiate with a Palestinian government that pays terrorists and their families.
The most important thing the Saudis and other moderate Gulf states, Egypt, and Jordan as well as the US and EU is to press the Palestinians new elections.
23
One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. These so-called terrorists fight because their families were displaced from their land and homes during and after 1948. As I stated below, the unwavering US support for Israel is likely the most major policy mistake made by the US over the past 60 years. The cost to the United States for supporting Israel has been exorbitant. That price, in terms of US lives and treasure, is incalculable. We must lose the one-sided relationship that we currently have with Israel.
6
After 70 years, that argument is wearing a little thin.
5
Using your logic, the terrorists of 9/11 could be considered "freedom fighter" by some. In order to effectively combat terrorism actions must have zero tolerance for terrorism. George Washington was not a terrorist because his freedom fighter attacked the British military.
The land of Israel is located on Jewish ancestral lands occupied by foreigners. If you were to visit Israel you can see ruins of the Second Jewish Temple from the Roman destruction 2000 years ago.
In 1947 the UN divided the Jewish ancestral lands into a Jewish portion, an Arab portion and an international Jerusalem portion. The Arabs along with 7 Arab armies sought to destroy the newly reestablish Jewish nation and instead succeeding in causing the deaths of many thousands as well as destroying their chance of nationhoid.
It is because of their attempts to destroy the newly reestablished Jewish nation on Jewish ancestral lands that the Palestinian people have suffered for 70 years without their own nation.
Only by renounce get terror and having new elections can the Palestinians demonstrate to Israel and the rest of the world that they are ready to be a reliable partner in peace.
6
While some of this Saudi pragmatism is welcome, Prince Mohammed's appetite for projecting power results in a huge amount of civilian suffering in places like Yemen. Similar to the Prince, Prime Minister Netanyahu puts enhancing his power before human rights and justice for all. So these autocrats may feel attraction to each other. No doubt Israel will start selling fighter jets to the Kingdom some time soon. Though I personally find this very distasteful, Saudi billionaire pragmatism is nothing new-- note the business relationships, the buying and selling of massive yachts, not to mention the Plaza hotel. However, since the USA has lost its standing to orchestrate a peace process, it is not impossible that Saudi Arabia might be able to step in to this thankless but important mediating role.
4
The Prince's pragmatism in Yemen seems all too similar to Likud's pragmatism on the West Bank.
4
According to this shill for the 1%, Khameini is 'worse than Hitler', and wants to take over the world! And we pay attention to such a person why? Because of the accident of his birth. A man of wealth unearned cozying up to Kushnerites and preaching about and to a world beyond his ken. Sheesh.
13
MBS is planning to build a new megacity that connects to Israel. He is hoping to modernise the Kingdom and is now allowing women to drive. If I had the cash I would invest in this new city. They will need plenty of steel- thats for sure. It makes sense for him to cultivate Israel. Money and economics might be an unexpected path to peace. KSA is also opening up to tourism from the West- we can only hope things will improve in the middle east- win win for everybody.
4
Historic milestone in the Middle Eastern politics !
3
We all tend to over-simplify the issues. It doesn't help that we talk about "Israel", "Saudi Arabia", and "Iran" as if they were each, unified giant entities in which their populations are in complete conformity.
"Israel does this."
"Iran does that."
In fact, there is a diversity of views in each of these countries. Israel and Iran are both under the throes of religious-extremist governments but both have populations and political parties that have considerably more liberal elements. Though Saudi Arabia doesn't have political parties, per se, it does have competing views within its society as well, most obvious in a generational split.
If we Americans sincerely want to play a role in making that part of the world a better place we would do well to acknowledge the diversity and identify those elements within each country that we feel can help to bring about peace. Then we need to work with these groups as closely as possible.
Bashing "Israel" of "Saudi Arabia" or "Iran" is counter-productive in every possible way.
This goes for Palestine, Yemen, Syria, Egypt, Jordan ... as well of course.
8
The biggest long-term threat to the interests of Saudi Arabia and Israel is a moderate, no-longer-Western-adverse Iran, and both know that. It is for that reason that they and their proxies oppose the Iran nuclear deal. An Iran free of the shackles of the Mullahs is far more appealing western ally than either country, with more common interests, and will dominate the region. So the enemy of my enemy is my friend.
7
Under the Shah, Iran was indeed not only Western looking and, compared to today's version, a moderate force albeit still with imperial ambitions. At the time, Iran was viewed by the US as the guarantor of stability on the east side of the Middle East with Israel playing that role on the western side. In addition, Iran and Israel had cordial relations. All these things ended in 1979 but there is every reason to believe that any post-ayatollah Iran would pick up where it left off and resume it’s friendly relations with both Israel and the US. The larger problem would be to bridge the historical Arab-Persian Andre Sunni-Shia enmity.
3
This is a no brainer. Israel certainly has a right to its own land; it just doesn't have a right to what little is left of Palestine (as well as the Golan Heights). That is the crucial point. It is also important to recognize and come to terms with the fact that Israel was created through the dispossession and displacement of the Palestinians from their own land. In this, Israel is no different than the US, Canada, Australia and other European settler states that are recognized as legitimate states today but which were all built on the theft of land from the native people and the marginalization and brutalization of those people (still ongoing in all cases). Israel has a right to exist; but the Palestinians have a right to justice, which includes Israel finally admitting what it did to them.
20
AS we have seen over and over, it has nothing to do with land or so-called injustices.
So many people are duped.
1
Except the Jews were their before Mohamad was born!
7
there is NO political relations between the kingdom and Israel what so ever, and the crown prince said that Israel and Palestine have both the right to have their own land. Anyhow, The kingdom of Saudi Arabia always and for ever support the peace in the region. Therefor Saudi Arabia position stands where a solution for both countries and that by both of them have their nation where they stand as in the initiative of Arabian summit in Beirut 2002 dictated. Overall, the kingdom is moving progressively forward in many aspects wither economically, politically .etc. Due that the kingdom doesn't want to create enemies.
3
Maybe he wanted to donate some land to Israel to replace the land they stole from the Palestinians.
11
The MBS and Likud alliance exposes how predatory imperialism in the region contributes to war and despotism in the region. Israel, the UAE, and Saudi Arabia formed an unholy alliance to role back the Arab Spring and launch the bloody anti-democratic coup in Egypt. They have promoted sectarian strife and despotism through out the region with a divide and rule strategy. Now they want to use American blood and treasure to launch a devastating war with Iran as seen in their firing of Rex Tillerson and getting the Neo-Con warmongers Mike Pompeo and John Bolton into power even though candidate Trump had bitterly criticized the Iraq war.
13
I think you owe everyone a detailed explanation of how Israel was at all involved - and why it would even wish to be - in rolling back a process that might have brought democratic governments to autocratic Arab states. The failure for that lies solely at the feet of the Arabs themselves. Blaming Israel only makes the necessary reckoning more distant and unlikely.
7
The record on this is quite clear. Netanyahu and then King Abdullah of Saudi Arabia bitterly assailed Obama for "throwing Mubarak under the bus" and Netanyahu demanded that the Saudi Royal family be kept in power at all cost. The NYT and David Kirkpatrick reported in detail right after the massacre of over 1000 pro-democracy protesters how the UAE, Israel, and Saudi Arabia funded and supported the coup and Israel assured the military Junta of General Sisi that Congress would safeguard their aid but that they had to crush the large anti-coup demonstrations. This is the sort of evil American policy makers have long been complicit in the region and the source of much of the terrorism threat the US faces. Sisi is Isis spelled backwards.
5
For a long time, the Israelis used third parties, to get large amounts oil from the Saudis. Both nations have dealt with each other as many know in Israel. The Saudi Crown Prince understands that nations have interests and not friends. Both nations have a common enemy, Iran.
5
A portend of good things coming soon! I recall Mrs. Gandhi observing that this Issue could have been solved with open minds on all sides. Better late than never. Good to see a young man with an open mind leading that region.
9
Israel continues to steal Palestinian land to build illegal settlements. And this illegal settlement building enterprise would not stop and especially not under current Israeli government. Right wing parties in Israel are religious zealots who want to take over all the land, these are not the people who are interested in peace.
18
True, but many other people in Israel are not religious zealots and we need to do what we can to strengthen that part of its political society.
9
what Palestinian land? Israel was established years prior and it was Israel that settled into land that England provided them. Yet the Arab nations attacked them. Should the Israelis have just stood there and accepted bullets raining down on them? For heaven sake, be logical, man..
3
Why does it only say Israelis? He also said that Palestinians deserve their own land and he would support the original border before Israel began their occupation.
2
Israel exists. Fact. Israel is a brutal occupier and resource thief. Fact. SA is an authoritarian state waging a murderous air campaign in Yemen. Fact. The US unquestionably supports both. Fact. Bad fact.
18
Holy moly. Where do people get such facts and conclusions?
1
So we should care about one Saudi prince's opinion on Israeli settlement building and border expansion? Many Americans, including myself, are becoming increasingly disillusioned by the US's continued unconditional support for Israel. The unwavering US support for Israel is likely the most major policy mistake made by the US over the past 60 years. The cost to the United States for supporting Israel has been exorbitant. That price, in terms of US lives and treasure, is incalculable. We are hated across the Middle East and it is now crystal clear that Netanyahu and the Israeli's that put him in power have likely never had the intention to end this conflict with a two state solution. In fact, it is very likely the case that peace is not part of the Israeli game plan at all, as peace would likely mean an end to rapid settlement building and the expansion of Israel's territory. Additionally, we have learned over the past two years that Israeli's consider themselves a "Jewish democracy". The words Jewish and democracy when used together are mutually exclusive. The primary beauty of a democracy is its inclusivity. Americans are quickly coming around to the fact that we must lose this one-sided relationship.
13
Protect this guy.
6
So the fact that he is a corrupt despot and brutal warmonger doesnt matter as long as he serves the militant and racist Likud Blocks agenda.
15
As opposed to Iran's enlightened leadership and their adventurism.
5
The two big questions the new Saudi opening to Israel raise are: Are they abandoning the Palestinians to gain a powerful ally in a war against Iran which seems more and more likely? And will the Crown Prince hold Israel to "a peace agreement to assure the stability for everyone" which implies a two-state solution? Apparently, he and our own crown prince Jared will soon unveil a "peace plan" that may, with Arab backing, finally get both skeptical Palestinians and a reluctant Netanyahu government to negotiate an "ultimate deal." As much as that would be welcome, it may come at a price too high if it's a prelude to an enlarged regional Islamic civil war between Sunni Saudi Arabia backed by Israel and the U.S., and Shiite Iran backed by Russia that already is being waged in Syria and Yemen.
4
With Egypt joining Israel in the destruction of tunnels of terror from Gaza and in keeping Hamas in check, and the developing Saudi Israel relationship, perhaps the Arab world can gain some influence to help move the Palestinians and Israelis towards a path to peace.
14
There is nothing more horrible than questioning anyone's right to exist. That said, attempt stretching your empathy a bit to consider that, out of 2 million inhabitants living in squalor in Gaza's 365 sqm, 1.3 million are refugees or the descendants of refugees from what is now proud Israeli land. Now you go tell them that Israel, that was the Jewish people's Bible-inspired solution for avoiding the next European (!) wave of antisemitism, has a God-given right to exist on their land.
9
Manhattan is 30 square miles and has more inhabitants than that. Such squalor, but great tunnels and missiles. What happened to the farms and greenhouses Israelis left behind when they evacuated Gaza? The people’s plight at this time is their own. A person born in the year Israel “stole” their land is now 70 years old.
28
Here's what the Israelis need to do, according to your logic: keep the Palestinians in exile for 2000 years (or for however many years in exile it took the Jews to lose their claim to the land in your view), and then they (Palestinians) will lose their claim as well. Simple, right?
But seriously, the Palestinians were handed Gaza on a silver platter with their own chance of creating a Paradise on the Mediterranean. And, what did they do: they launched their suicidal attacks against the Israelis, forcing the Israelis to contain them. Egypt was forced to do the same. It is time for the Palestinians to wake up to reality: They must prove that they can govern themselves and live with their neighbors, or be condemned to squalor. The choice is theirs.
And by the way: the area of Gaza is 7 times the area of Manhattan, while containing an approximately equal population. Oh what an enterprising and peaceful people could do with that prime real estate!
21
Duh. Of course the two main sponsors of terrorism in the Middle East -- both of whom get funding from the US -- agree to agree.
12
Will he sign a peace treaty with Israel and declare Israel's right to exist??
4
JAB: you must have overlooked the Arab Peace Initiative offered to Israel almost 20 years ago. It offered recognition if Israel would return the occupied territories and accept a two state solution. Israel refused and the US did nothing to influence that decision. With currently weakened Arab societies, Israel has even less incentive now to consider peace!
1
That peace initiative required Israel to take back an unlimited amount of Palestinian refugees which would have meant the end of the world's only Jewish majority state.
Jews had been persecuted for centuries in majority-gentile countries. Even when not actively persecuting the Jews, the majority-gentile countries refused to give refuge to the Jews when they needed it. There would have been no Holocaust if majority-gentile countries would have allowed in Jewish refugees who were escaping from the Nazis. The idea of Zionism was that Jews would return to their homeland & have a majority-Jewish country because majority-gentile countries had failed to provide safety for the Jews.
2
Baby steps. MBS at least seems to know how to work it (slowly) and the value of Israel in the region. It's time for the Palestinians to come to grips with reality and find a way to move forward and foster a better environment and future for their children, rather than just hate Jews and fight for their "homeland" to be returned.
9
Considering what Saudia Arabia is doing to the people of Jemen, this is nothing more than a chumming up.
7
The Palestinians have always had a weak hand and have always played it poorly. They bet on the Ottoman empire in WW1, the Nazis in WW2, the Soviet union in the Cold war, and Sadam Hussein in the first gulf war. Now the most powerful and richest arab nation Saudi Arabian is following years of behind the scenes relations with Israel with actually acknowledging their right to exist. If they Palestinians don't see the handwriting on the wall they are blind. Their only allies left are on US liberal arts college campuses.
16
He is taking a friendlier position with Israel but essentially still called for a two state solution like every country in the world besides Israel.
“The king restated “the kingdom’s steadfast position towards the Palestinian issue and the legitimate rights of the Palestinian people to an independent state with Jerusalem as its capital,” the king said. He made no mention of Israel.”
1
The Palestinians have always been consistent: they have always been against the USA. Such a visceral feeling will be hard to change, and will require a government that shows tact and respect
3
SB - Israel has supported a 2 state solution for decades. The failure of Palestinian leadership to follow suit led to the rise of Israel's right wing and the current situation of settlement building.
5
Wasn't Saudi Arabia one the countries that attacked the newly created state of
Israel in '48? Along with Egypt and Jordan. Yet Israel conveniently blames the 'Palestinians", who were just victims fleeing the bombardments, and since then never allowed to go back to the homes they had to abandon. Why didn't Israel punish the real attackers? Oh right, it was not THEIR land they coveted.
Not only do politics make strange bedfellows, they now even make BBFs. The enemy of my enemy . . .
2
On the same day that a Saudi Prince announces that he is open to resolving his differences with Israel, the leader of the Labour Party in England indicates by his actions that he is far from ready for a radical step like that.
Oh well. The more things change, the more they stay the same.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/03/world/europe/uk-jeremy-corbyn-jewdas....®ion=c-column-middle-span-region&pgType=Homepage&action=click&mediaId=thumb_square&state=standard&contentPlacement=4&version=internal&contentCollection=www.nytimes.com&contentId=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.nytimes.com%2F2018%2F04%2F03%2Fworld%2Feurope%2Fuk-jeremy-corbyn-jewdas.html&eventName=Watching-article-click
9
I might have more faith in MBS's acumen if he had not gone on a billion dollar spending spree for his own benefit probably acquired from forcibly appropriated funds from his rivals in the Kingdom. His other foreign policy judgement, the interminable war in Yemen is currently a disaster.
4
This Religion thing is really getting old... the Jews the Arabs who in their right mind who's read even a smattering on history can but throw their collective hands up and shout Enough!
3
I don’t need a faux Saudi Prince to tell me Israel has the right to exist. These people think we are all pawns for sale
Problem is, Netanyahu probably is
2
So many commentators here are outraged that MBS's moves contradict their story of Israel's endless oppression of Arabs.
Hey, what will you all do when MBS leads most of the Sunni world to quiet friendliness with Israel?
Where will you move your moral condescension when Saudi Arabia and Israel exchange ambassadors?
Will you finally confess to your anti-Semitism?
No - didn't think so.
11
What was once an impossibility just became a reality. Unbearable situations are pushing everyone to the brink. Brace yourselves, looks like the world is heading for a showdown!
Even if done because Saudi Arabia and Israel have a common enemy in Iran, the prince’s comments are nonetheless extraordinary. Who could have imagined remarks like this even a few years ago? Yes , yes the enemy of my enemy is my friend, but this is till amazing.
7
Just to be clear with the article, the crown prince is referring to the Arab peace initiative that was in Beirut (Lebanon) in 2002 to end the conflict between the two countries. Also, there was was an agreement In 1967 that each country have the right to have their own land. As the Crown Prince said Saudi Arabia doesn't have a problem with Jews and there are many Jews work in Saudi Arabia.
1
Israel has agriculture that is adapted to dry lands. The Saudis have oil which will eventually run out or be replaced by clean tech. Arabia needs to look to the future. Perhaps, Israel has solutions that the Saudies need so that they don’t become a Western province again.
2
It will be interesting to see from whence the Kushner companies receive funds to alleviate their real estate debt problems.
2
This is from a royal, the top 1% speaking. What about the 99% of Saudis, the so-called street and their Wahabee beliefs with jihads and infidels and fatwas and what have you. That will be the real test.
Welcome news, but the Israeli's don't need anyone's blessing to live in their own land.
5
About time! At last, a King.
Oh goody, the Saudi's want to sing kumbaya now with everyone, except Iran, but now everyone includes Israel.
Does anyone remember when these Saudi's sent airplanes crashing into our buildings killing thousands or am I thinking of some different Saudi's ?
6
Talk is cheap. Let MBS recognize Israel and stop Wahabism in Saudi Arabia.
3
"...and Saudi leaders have historically criticized the Jewish state for its treatment of the Palestinians and for limiting access to Muslim holy sites in Jerusalem."
Since non-Muslims are not permitted in Mecca or Medina, and Muslims in Jerusalem only experience "limited" access to the site of the Jews' ancient temples during times when Muslims are flinging rocks down on worshipping Jews from the Temple Mount, I just had to thank you for the unintentional ironical reporting.
Thanks for the smile. :).
7
Long after the Palestinian leadership has finally reconciled themselves to some sort of co-existence with the Jewish State of Israel, the comment spaces of the Times will remain filled with angry demands that all Israelis, every single one of them, be hurled out of their country and returned to Europe and America “where they came from.”
The authors of these comments will all be hard-core liberals.
They will resemble the proud but pathetic and deluded Japanese soldiers who hid out on islands after World War II and continued the battle long after it was over.
8
So the Saudis apparently have had it with Palestinian terrorism and their irrationally stubborn refusal to accept the existence of Israel, and now recognize the practical and strategic benefits of a more normal relationship with Israel. This is just the latest proof of the old adage that the Palestinians never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity.
5
Prince Salman has also given women the right to drive cars and join the army.
2
I meant to write Prince Mohammed bin Salman.
Sorry to have been so hasty.
1
So “MBS” is thinking he can sell out the Palestinians in return for getting the war on Iran coveted by him and his new best bud “Bibi”. With the help of errand-boy Jared, it’s sure to happen. Just wait patiently for the doddering Abbas to depart this realm and get a traitorous thug like Mohamed Dahlan to take charge, someone these masters of the universe can deal with you know. The Palestinians will be made to accept whatever crumbs they are tossed. So they think.
How lucky that “MBS” and Jared have so much in common. The relationship doesn’t seem symmetrical though. Word is that “MBS” tells people Jared is “in his pocket”.
Meanwhile King Salman, daddy of “MBS” and reportedly suffering from dementia, still had the wits to try to undo the damage caused by his son’s dangerously loose tongue. It probably hasn’t worked though.
April 3, 2018 5:29 pm ET
2
To what extent did Trump's recognition of Jerusalem as Israel's capital help bring about this development? Think about it, since President Carter every American president, as well as Oslo and the UN, have been stuck in the same rut of a two-state solution that included silence about Jerusalem and Israel's occupation of lands captured in 1967.. So now we have a president willing to depart from diplomatic orthodoxy and try something new. This gave Saudi Arabia the cover it needed to challenge the diplomatic status quo. In the long term, this development will put enormous pressure on Israel's right wing politicians. Peace will overtake the hardliners on both sides. We just needed some iconoclastic leaders such as Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman and President Trump.
Good Luck, Salman. Liberalization has not worked well in the middle east. I'd have felt more optimistic about the Prince's chances a few years ago, when Erdogan represented a progressive secular Turkey. But, it is hard to keep an entrenched religion on the sideline. Both the Sunnis and Shia resemble that description.
1
regarding the prince point on Israel, he just Reintroduced Arab peace initiative as presented in 2002 by king Abdullah, this has been always the opinion of Saudi Arabia . the prince spoke admirably and truly about the Interfaith Relations especially between Muslims and Jews and that it is based on mutual respect, I think this man will bring a positive atmosphere and great change to Middle east.
3
The Saudi Crown Prince, Mohammed bin Salman (MBS) is eager to compensate for the failure of the Saudi-led blockade on Qatar to punish the Gulf state for cooperating with Iran, and its two disastrous attempts to curb Iranian advances in Syria and Yemen.
On his watch Saudi Arabia has intensified security cooperation with Israel, because both want to weaken Iran - at the expense of the Palestinians and the common Arab interests.
In an unprecedented interview to a Saudi news outlet last November, Israel Defense Forces Chief of Staff Gadi Eisenkot said that Israel is prepared to share intelligence with Saudi Arabia in their joint efforts to curb Iranian influence in the region. Avigdor Lieberman warned that Israel would not permit the consolidation of a Shia “axis in Syria.” Benjamin Netanyahu has made it clear that Israel will not allow Iran to gain military ground and naval footholds in Syria.
This gave MBS hope that Israel might take on Iran on his behalf. In its endeavour to challenge Iran and become the Persian Gulf’s sole hegemon, Saudi Arabia can’t match Iran’s military might. Israel will continue to work with the Saudis, but it will unlikely fight a full-scale war on their behalf.
In 2012, Netanyahu didn’t follow through on threats to attack Iran’s nuclear facilities. MBS would welcome a clash between Israel and Hezbollah, hoping it would inevitably lead to a confrontation between Israel and Iran. For the moment such a conflict will only inflame the region further.
12
I lived in Saudi Arabia from 2011-2016. The younger generation is getting fed up with the old ways. Many have traveled around Europe and the USA. They've seen the benefits of a more open society and they're bringing that spirit back with them. Prince Mohammed is part of that. He sees the need to move Saudi Arabia closer to the west but has to struggle with a tightrope walk imposed by the older generation of clerics who are not prepared to let go. It's a delicate balance.
Cooperation with Israel has a lot to offer Saudi. Israel is light years ahead in terms of technical know-how. Saudi leadership is trying to attract teachers from around the world to train their students in modern skills. Israel has strong knowledge on important regional subjects as well, such as water treatment and low-water agriculture.
There are a lot of benefits to Saudi Arabia if it can improve its relationship to Israel. If it can do so while also improving the lot of the Palestinians, who currently receive support from Iran, that would be a win-win, weakening Iran's influence.
The situation in Saudi Arabia improved a lot in the 5 years I was there. Of course, there is still a LONG way to go. It's a delicate situation and the right kind of encouragement from the West could vastly change it over the next generation. The wrong actions could throw it back into the Middle Ages.
16
Well depending on the context, will depend on if we next hear about his head on a stake.
Hamas' stated goal is to have a Palestinian state in all of Israel. The so-called Palestinian refugees have been promised that since Israel's creation. Instead of accepting the then, two-state solution, the Arab states have kept these descendants as prisoners. People are not refugees when their grandparents were not even born in Israel. This scam has been going on for 70 years supported by US dollars. Arabs who did not leave are Israeli citizens. The world did not complain when Jordan stole land from Israel and prevented Jews from going to the Temple Mount for 19 years.
Hamas organized Friday's riot for the purpose of having people killed after they threw Molotov cocktails, rolled burning tires and shot rifles at the Israeli soldiers. It was a stunt to get sympathy. Until the rest of the Arabs admit this situation was caused by their actions in 1948, nothing will change. They are keeping their brethren prisoners for no reason.
55
Oh, the soft bigotry of low expectations.
Talk is cheap, especially on a Saudi Prince budget. No gold stars to ANY powerful men in the Middle East (Israelis included) while women, children and minorities in the region suffer daily indignities and unrelenting human rights abuses at the hands of warped theocratic regimes.
22
How would you compare the daily indignities and unrelenting human rights abuses in Syria, as compared to Hamas abuse of its own people? But, the NYT blames Israel for the inevitable results from the "peaceful" demonstration of Gazans at the border (actually, an armistice line). These mostly 4th generation Gazans, none of whom ever saw Israel, let alone lived there, are duped to think they will one day conquer all the land and live in someone's Tel Aviv penthouse, with the Jewish owners murdered first. How can, who can, their brainwashed minds be changed?
5
Millenials rising to power and making progress. Finally. Even NK young leader seems to want some kind of integration. Goodbye and good riddance, 20th Century misery.
2
He's 32, I don't think he is a Millennial. Maybe a Gen Y'er or X'er maybe?
3
He is a millennial, as am I at the age of 34. I see a lot of millennials throwing that term around as an insult not knowing that they themselves are a part of that generation. Just proving the stereotype to be true I guess haha.
1
MBS is the new spokesman for Bibi and the war he wants with Iran. Bibi has never had any interest in peace, just appeasing his far right base!
23
It sure looks to me that we are being lead into another war, this time against Iran and for the benefit of Israel and Saudi Arabia. It is certainly not an "America First" agenda.
24
U.S. of course major arms supplier to both Israel and Saudi Arabia, perhaps inevitable that their sibling dependence on American weaponry might lead to such similar mutually-beneficial press releases - even if connected to NO political practice in either country.
From article - The king restated “the kingdom’s steadfast position towards the Palestinian issue and the legitimate rights of the Palestinian people to an independent state with Jerusalem as its capital,” the king said.
So what is Saudi Arabia - in its infinite wisdom and wealth - concretely and substantially doing to support the Palestinians' right to exist and perhaps even thrive in a nation of their own?
What is Israel doing to either aid or thwart this seemingly peaceful aspiration?
5
I never thought I'd live to hear the Crown Prince of Saudi Arabia echo the words and sentiments of Theodore Herzl and David Ben-Gurion. It may be that the world really is changing.
13
..or that the messiah is on his way.
1
Nice of MBS to think of Israel as part of its mercenary army. Because Israel does not have much other than security apparatus to offer that Saudi doesn't already have or can't get from its current suppliers. So the autocracy wants to ensure continuation of its existence. Why doesn't he mention something in return for the Palestinians? He is just paroting the Trumpian position vis a vis the Israeli-Palestinian issue.
6
1) Read the full interview. 2) He speaks of economic opportunities, trade, and investment.
Not one mention of the cruel destruction of the entire country of Yemen and the murder and lack of humanitarian aid (like food) that is still now raging - with our U.S. military aid providing money, ammunition and re-fueling.
And how many wives does MBS have? We never hear or see hardly any Saudi women at all- except the news that they may be "allowed" to drive a car soon, as long as they have permission of a man and as long as they are covered from head to toe. The advertising push to change our minds to think he is a "good guy" is all about arms and oil deals where the already wealthy win and the rest of us lose big time.
26
Sounds like the Saudi leader is using the issue to rehab Jared public image, possibly in exchange for more favorable treatment against Qatar. But what is a greenhorn hustler like Jared doing there anyway? Will House of Saud invest $500 million in the family biz?
7
I have met several Saudi men, and as a Jew, they were not only happy to meet me, they sought me out. They want love to flow between the peoples. They do not share the government's views, and this has been true of men from other Arab and North African nations. Once the anti-Israel propaganda is dispensed with, and people learn the true history, everything will change, if the monarchs allow it.
7
Ok - so he hates Iran enough to make overtures to Israel. Explain how that is going to solve the issue of the Palestinian issue? Sounds like fluff to me. Like the longstanding claim that his kingdom was against extremist. No - only the extremists that threaten his familY's reign
19
"There will be cries of Peace! Peace!, but there will be no peace"
2
Saudi Arabia’s powerful crown prince has said that Israelis “have the right to have their own land”
Simplistic words from a simple nomadic shepherd is simply in keeping. The oil will eventually all run out just like everything else.
4
Gaza could flourish again just it did when the Israelis applied their talents prior to the "turnover".
It is so sad to see so many young Arab men wasting their lives under the thumbs of a few unstable "leaders".
If the Arabs of Gaza displayed a desire to be productive instead of destructive Israel could easily give them encouragement by loosening some of the present necessary restrictions.
Many intelligent and thoughtful citizens of Gaza would undoubtably welcome a peaceful existence with Israel, however, the price of peace is halting the rockets, rocks ,tunnels and the violence their hateful Hamas leaders have foisted on them!.
17
But not someone else’s
4
But not a right to OTHERS' land! The UN is the arbiter of land disputes, not Saudi Arabia or Israel. The UN and the Geneva Conventions have said that there should be two states AND that an occupying country cannot transfer its population into occupied territory.
27
Where, which clause of the so called Geneva Convention. Prussian land Königsberg(until 1946) is now called Kaliningrad now. Zero German population. Germans had to pack up go.
You want more examples?
5
What land dispute(s) has the UN ever successfully arbitrated by the Geneva Convention?
3
And when the UN has been hopelessly corrupted, it can no longer control or regulate its created nation. Other nations have changed borders. You are wrong in what you state.
9
All this happy talk of peace. After what happened this Passover weekend on the Gaza border? We are on the verge of a crisis in the Middle East and the NY Times churns out a story about the mutual interests of Saudi Arabia and Israel. So now will Jared Kushner broker this fantasy of a Middle East peace? Until Israel and America's Jews come to grips with the occupation and the harmful settlements policy over the past two decades, there will be no peace plan. It seems to me it is more of a war plan. Heart of hearts I'm with Peace Now, but come on everyone, let's wake up and face this next crisis head-on before all the happy talk of peace. We really do have short memories in this country. I guess it's time for yet another Donald Trump sex scandal to take our minds off the cruel realities of life.
31
@Steve Zurier The "Palestinians" attacked Isreal with Egypt and Jordan and were captured. Israel gave Gaza to the Palestinians and a transition of the West Bank was offered. The Palestinian response was NO, they want all of Israel, Jordan and Lebanon, and continued their murderous ways. The Palestinians lost their opportunity for ever...
19
Kushner will probably have a huge impact whether you like it or not, and whether the peaceniks get what they want or not. Because getting what they want would threaten Israel's survival. Settlements have never been the real issue.
2
Great. We need volunteers on the Gaza side of the border fence to keep would-be fence-crashers away from it, since the Hamas militiamen seem incapable of handling the responsibility. I nominate members of Peace Now and Students for Justice in Palestine for the job.
10
If one needs an understanding why middle-of-the-stream american jews- classically voters for democratic party candidates- are starting to cross over to the GOP (albeit holding our noses), one needs to look no farther than the comments on this article.
Let's see- the ruler of the holy lands of Mecca and Medina, the ruler of the largest Arab Islamic land mass- has agreed to the notion that Israel has the right to exist. Something denied in 1947, something done by Sadat in 1977.
And the reaction of the uber liberal masses? Disdain. Insults. Outright libel.
So don't ask why the Adlesons of the world trust the Saudis. It's because american liberals have gone on an anti-semitic bender.
52
Criticism of Israel's policies is neither antisemitic nor anti-Israel. The more you insist on criticism as "anti" you will lose out. Many young Jewish Americans are criticizing Israel's policies.
17
Jonny, the other side of the coin is that the settlements and the harshly disproportionate and antidemocratic treatment of the Palestinians is making more Americans, Jewish and non-Jewish, willing to look critically (and, in my view, more honestly) at Israel and its right-wing government.
11
I don't know about Adelson, but the 'liberals' here have picked up on the significance of this development as being less related to Israel than to Iran, which has now become the 'common enemy' of Israel, the Saudis and Trump's America.
Did the Saudi prince say that Israel has a right to be a Jewish state in its current land?
2
These days, the Saudis and the Israelis are two-of-a-kind, and Trump makes three.
15
Well, he knows how to get Americans coming and going, doesn't he? Women drivers, ooh. Israel has a right to exist. Wow. Forget the coup, the corruption, the war against Yemen, all the Saudi involvement in financing Isis and the Taliban, oh, not forgetting Osama and his pals on 9/11. So how many wars and deaths is that over the past couple of decades? How much oil spilled? But it's ok, it's all right, as long as he'll sell that oil to Israel and let rich women race their Lamborghinis.
47
Yet another Arab state/leader abandons the Palestinians. Shame.
15
Yet another Arab state and leader who wants to make peace with the Jewish state and people. A historic opening. Yet another Arab state and leader who no longer wants to be held hostage to the Palestinian regime that never misses an opportunity to miss an opportunity to gain sovereignty and freedom for its people.
Once Israel abides by international law and allows Palestinians to return to their homeland, live in the West Bank and Gaza free from occupation, and exist equally under the law within Israel, the door will be wide open for freedom and sovereignty.
3
Maybe the Saudi Prince should remove all the Palestinians from the West bank and relocate them to Saudi Arabia, Jordan and Iran. That way there can be harmony between everyone.
17
Considering that the majority of them were put there by those countries, and Egypt, that is exactly what should happen.
5
Meanwhile, Jews can build houses of worship in downtown Tehran and Jews can also practice their religion openly in Iran. In fact, a member of Iran's Parliament is Jewish.
How about those apples, MBS?
But, MBS wants to enlist the help of the Jews and Americans to bomb the Persians because it's in his nasty, personal, cling to power in a dark dictatorship -- interests to do so. Yet, he sells himself as a rock star reformer and half the media falls for it.
MBS is fools gold. Saudi Arabia is slowly disintegrating because it should, and he's doing whatever he can to shore up his ability to leach off his people, suck up all the oil for his personal use and buy billion dollar boats, French castles, and Da Vinci's.
Let the whole thing collapse. The Persians are the better bet. If we don't make that bet, the Russians and the Chinese will and they will benefit greatly.
40
Exactly how many practicing Jews are in Iran now and how many were there 500 years ago. Get your facts straight - everyone is entities to an opinion, but not their own facts.
2
Just because Iran has an open air zoo in which people can see Jews in their natural habitat does not mean that Jews are free to worship in Iran.
Iran continues to threaten to wipe out the entire state of Israel.
So it seems that you are suggesting Jews should trade the freedom of the only Jewish state in the entire world for a state of dhimmitude.
3
It's never too late to do the right thing. The Prince seems to have finally learned this lesson.
10
It may be worth noting that policies forbidding synagogues, though probably a relatively bad sign as to acceptance of Jews & public Jewishness in Saudi Arabian society, is not necessarily that big a deal from the standpoint of Judaism itself, which generally needs little more than 10 adult (13 years) males (and 3 times a week, including Sabbath -as well as on holidays & the beginning of each month- Torah scrolls) for traditional observance. It does require kosher food & ritual baths (mikvas), but technically natural bodies of water can serve as these baths. Additionally, Torah law requires that menorahs be publicly visible on Chanukah, but in some conditions it may be sufficient if they are "publicly" viewed in the home's confines. In other words, though, public synagogues are less vital to traditional orthodox practice than they are among secular Jews whose formal observance is commonly limited to synagogue attendance a few times annually: Most Torah-prescribed observance involves practices that are as "at home" "at home" as in public synagogue buildings.
Judaism probably is more severely threatened by efforts (sometimes successful) in many secular domains to outlaw ritual circumcision & ritual slaughter, probably neither of which is threatened in Saudi Arabia which has similar ritual observances in Islam.
But I would indeed be curious as to Saudi policies as to the mikvah (ritual bath) & menorahs (whether their display in a private home window would incur punishment).
6
By the way, apologies to the fair sex as to my comments: You couldn't have much of a Jewish community without women, who I may have implied are less important than menorahs and Torah scrolls! Women are definitely quite important in orthodox Judaism.
4
Now, if only the Palestinian leadership would echo the words of Prince Mohammed- (that the Palestinians and Israelis both have a right to their own land and that we need a peace agreement)- we might begin to see the beginning of a decent life for Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank. But one has to ask the question- does the Palestinian leadership actually believe that both Jews and Palestinians have a right to land and peace? And can they publicly say as much without being assassinated by their own people?
Whatever the eventual borders and governments in Israel/Palestine, the Palestinians are going to have to recognize the State of Israel and start trying to make peace and prosperity instead of war and self-pity. Their only hope is to forge an economic symbiosis with Israel and begin creating a viable economy in Gaza and the West Bank.
13
My guess is that this has mostly to do with the kingdoms and the GCC's wish to consolidate power against Iran and it's proxies in the region.
I doubt that the Gulf states or the Saudi's have any illusions about the impossibility of a two state solution in Palestine. That has been a dead issue for a long time.
The war with Iran is not just cold. It is hot. The Saudi's are pounding Yemen into the ground to prevent it becoming a Iranian proxy. Israel has made air strikes in Syria against Shia militias.
The USA strongly supports both Israel and Saudi Arabia.
Iran is seeking alliances with Turkey and Russia.
Hard to say how this struggle for dominance in the region will turn out.
My personal bias is that Iran is the most dangerous aggressor in the region. The corrupt and vicious ayatollahs believe they have a religious mission to spead their brand of fundamentalist Islam to the rest of the world. Collateral damage even in terms of their own citizens means nothing to them. The Iranian people are as much victims of thebloodthirsty ayatollahs as is the rest of the region.
1
As the saying goes the enemy of my enemy is my friend.
In this case the enemy is Iran and the friend is Israel
Israeli society is prepared and expert at waging war.
The Saudis would just rather write checks and bomb.
So it in their interest to choose sides in the inevitable
war between Iran and Israel.
Hatred reigns supreme in this section of the world.
It has for centuries and will never change. We never
win anything there. Best to leave and the chips fall
where they may.
4
And now, if there were a courageous Israeli politician who says that Palestinians have a right to their land, peace would have a chance.
16
They'd just assassinate her/him. See Yitzhak Rabin.
8
We recognize Israel as independent State on former Kingdom lands. In the past we have told Palestinians there is better option for them than the near worthless real estate of Jerusalem, such as our Kuwaiti province, but it now appears a new option is opening up for another homeland for the Palestinians and it could be Saudi Arabia after Iran and Yemen finish with the Saudis!
2
Israel's withdrawal from the Sinai in return for a peace treaty and withdrawal from Gaza give lie to all those who portray it as a land grabbing imperialist nation. When the Arab world accepts the notion of a Jewish State in its midst, there will be peace. This is a small step in that direction. Will Hamas, Hezbollah...follow? Of course not.
36
Yes, few recognize that the Israel of today covers something like only 30% of the land mass it controlled after 1967. But people persist in calling it "expansionist."
2
70 years ago, this coming May 14th, as recognized by the United Nations, the State of Israel, the ancient homeland of the Jewish people, was born. 70 years ago, the very next day, forces from Egypt, Syria, Iraq, Lebanon and others attacked Israel.
And every single day for the 70 years since then the Jewish people have been fighting for their lives surrounded, literally, by a land mass 545 times larger than itself populated by millions and millions of people whose favorite phrase is “death to Israel”. So this is good news.
70
And what of Palestine, sir? Or are you in the Newt Gingrich camp that maintains the Palestinian people don't exist at all?
3
Among Assad and his good buddy Putin, various flavors of Da'esh, MbS, Netanyahu, Erdogan, Sisi and the late Hussein, it's hard to know which ME leader has the most blood on his hands. Hezbollah, Hamas and various Iranian militias are small time players by comparison.
But let's not forget the foundational role played by PNAC, Project for the the New American Century. The Bush II regime swallowed the Project hook, line and sinker.
The resulting bloodshed just keeps ascending to ever greater levels of horror. Remember it all started with the invasion of Iraq.
The history dunces now want to bring the Project to Iran.
6
One need be wary of Middle Eastern geopolitical realignments based on the collective wisdom of the young Saudi Prince and the young Trump-Inlaw-dauphin. After all, the Saudi’s are the propogators of a form of Islam that bars both the practice of Christianity and Judaism whereas there are both more than 10 active Synagogues in Tehran alone and over 800,000 Christians in all of present day Iran. While treating these facts as though they were of no real significance may pay short term political dividends ignoring them temps the repeat of a historical mistake of tragic proportions!
8
Thank you, sir, for being very brave, indeed. What we want and need isn't your acceptance or recognition: it is for all people to live in peace and harmony. You are taking a small step in this process and while there is no doubt you are doing this for your own people and country, you clearly want what is best for everyone.
There will come a time when all people can live in peace. Until that time, small steps, and the courage to both recognize the goal and the value of achieving it.
9
The pioneers who created Israel were happy to abide by international law, when the UN adopted the Partition Plan for Palestine in 1947, which awarded 56% of the British Mandate to a Jewish State and 46% to an Arab State (despite the fact that Arabs constituted 67% of the total population.
These days, so much. Israel is in violation of UN Resolutions 242 and 338, calling inter alia for withdrawal to the Green Line. Israel is in violation of Article 49 of the Fourth Geneva Convention by settling land acquired in war.
Are you old enough, Pamela, to remember when the world viewed Israel as a valiant David, outnumbered and surrounded by hostile states and threatened by terrorists? I am, and I do.
That view began to change after Likud took power, installed "Arik the King" as Land minister, and began settling the territories acquired in '67. After Oslo, when the PLO recognized the right of Israel to the land within the Green Line, the "game" became how much of the remaining 27% of the land that comprised the British Mandate could be annexed, formally or informally, by Israel
And the irony is that in so doing, Israel is the author of her own Hobson's Choice: whether to remain a democratic state or a Jewish state, because once the Arab population exceed the Jewish population in a decade or so, she will not be able to remain both.
6
This is nothing other than a classless and duplicitous quid pro quo between an incipient Jewish theocracy and an Arab theocracy. Power corrupts...
57
So, which countries have a moral right to exist in your opinion? And which don't?
11
Those rooted in pluralistic, secular Enlightenment philosophies free from the stain of religious intrusion. It's quite simple, actually.
7
"“I believe that each people, anywhere, has a right to live in their peaceful nation,” Prince Mohammed. But of course, not the Palestinians, what hypocrisy.
29
Don't the Palestinians fall under the definition of 'each people'? Isn't the comment by MBS just simply advocating for a 'two state solution'?
5
Not sure what the problem is. Either you didn't read the article, or didn't understand it. Because according to the article, the full quote is:
“I believe the Palestinians and the Israelis have the right to have their own land. But we have to have a peace agreement to assure the stability for everyone and to have normal relations.”
10
If you had actually read his comments you might note that he said the same thing about the Palestinians as he did for the Israelis.
10
It wasn't until recently that the Times and other mainstream media began reporting on the growing but still largely "secret" strategic relationships Israel is building with Saudi Arabia and Egypt, even though these budding ties have been known about for years. (Israel also has mutually beneficial but largely unofficial relations with other Muslim nations such as Azerbaijan and Iraqi Kurdistan.) Those of us who have been following these remarkable developments in the Israeli press or on right-wing websites have wondered about this lag: Why isn't this sea change being heralded more widely in the mainstream media? I suspect it has a lot to do with the (often justifiable) hostility the Left has toward the Saudis, al-Sisi in Egypt, and the Likud in Israel. This lack of reporting -- until very recently -- is unfortunate, because what Prince Mohammed, in particular, is doing represents the most significant movement toward peace between Israel and the Arab states since the Camp David Accords forty years ago. Most of the American media seem locked in a time warp in which the Arab world is seen as galvanized in its fury at Israel and its sympathy for the Palestinians, but don't seem to notice that almost no one in the "Arab street" seemed to care when Trump announced the embassy move, and that the biggest perceived enemy among most Sunnis in the Arab world is now Iran, not the Jewish state.
76
I don't know what you read, but the left has been talking about the tacit alliance between Israel and various rightwing Arab governments (especially the Saudis) for years. And what the Saudi monarch is doing is not about peace--it is an extension of his war with Iran. He said the Iranian government is worse than the Nazis. His government is bombing and starving people in Yemen, ostensibly because he thinks the Houthis are an extension of Iran's nefarious plot to rule the world. The Saudis funded jihadists in Syria, something that people in the Clinton campaign discussed in the emails released by wikileaks. (The contents of the emails were in part fascinating even if people obsess over who stole them.) I would like to say I am surprised to see Westerners falling for his nonsense, but I am not, because he is just telling a certain group of Westerners exactly what they want to hear. In particular, he is telling them that the Arabs don't really care about the Palestinians, but want to see the Iranian regime toppled. Obviously this is true if one restricts one's focus to a certain set of Arab billionaires.
5
Really? Ask the "Arab Street" how they feel about Iran, you will be surprised. In many cases, the prefer Iran and the comparatively open society Iran provides over their own despotic rulers. Even Sunni Arabs, in many cases, openly side with Shia Iran over their own rulers.
The American media usually tells you the opinions of billionaire Arab rulers, and rarely tells you the opinion of the middle class or poor in their country. The biggest problem Arab rulers have is their own people. That's why they're trying to create an enemy on the outside....Iran. Dictatorship 101
9
The relations between countries in the ME have been reported on to the degree that they were significant. Israel has relations with Qatar and Oman maybe on and off but they communicate and it’s public knowledge that there are back channels between the Saudi’s , UAE and Israelis that information wasn’t being kept secret from the left. But It’s getting much wider play now that MBS is ignoring the religious zealots in the heartland of Saudi and making some changes that are needed. I wonder if that would work here?
1
This is pure Saudi self interest, but it could be a big help. A Saudi backed peace deal and money for the Palestinians could actually work. Instead of the Saudis paying people to kill Israelis ( the Iranians still do), Palestinians can be paid to not kill Israelis. And, if Saudi Arabia would put money into Gaza and the West Bank, there could be progress. Of course, the Arabs have to agree to the legitimacy of Israel. It seems Prince Mohamed has done so. Others must follow and Israel has to cooperate too.
18
Doesn't Israel have to also stop denying that Palestinians exist and stop taking their land, water, air and lives? Let us all stop the hypocrisy about Israel being a victim of the Palestinians.
10
Every nation works toward its own self interest.
1
Keep repeating the propaganda and see where that has gotten the Palestinians. How about being serious about advancing the rights of both people and considering co-existence for a change.
4
It's all about the money. ( same as it ever was )
If one totalitarian state ( that denies human rights ) can do business ( and enrich their monarchy/family ) with another emerging totalitarian state ( that is also denying human rights while expropriating land/homes ) then so be it.
The rhetoric may continue by some so long as it does not cut into said profit.
26
To call Israel a totalitarian state is either to have no idea what totalitarianism is or to have never been to or learned anything about Israel. It has a robust democracy, allows voters of all religions and backgrounds to participate in elections, has a brutally free press and independent judiciary. If that's totalitarianism, what is democracy?
41
I'm sorry, but what possible meaningful financial gain is involved in this for the Saudis? There are far more financial (and not to mention political) risks involved for them. Also, please don't use the word totalitarian unless you know what it means. (And what is it about the left these days that they don't seem to know what words like fascist and totalitarian and racist actually mean?)
6
To compare the SA and Israeli forms of government is laughable. Israel is a functioning democracy with an independent court system.
9
This is risky for the Crown Prince. If he can truly consolidate his power for decades to come, it might work.
If a serious challenger ever arises against him, this will be a prime wedge issue to pit Saudi citizens against him.
He's right about the economic benefits possible to Saudi Arabia. And he's right in his intention to cool things off a bit between the Palestinians and the Israelis in order to better manage both his relations with the US, and the cold war with Iran.
What a turn of history to see that now Iran and Turkey are more extremist, anti-US nations than Saudi Arabia.
It also sets the new balance of power in the Middle East: Iran and Turkey, backed by Russia on the one side, and Saudia Arabia and Israel, backed by the US on the other. It is indeed the 21-century theater for the US-Russia Cold War V2.0
It's a tricky status quo to maintain, but if it can be done, it will free up the Saudis to deal with their domestic problems, and grow their economy in a more balanced fashion.
My guess is that the Crown Prince's calculus is that even though that's very risky, the alternative - continued skirmishes and deterioration of the region - is worse.
3
All right! And it only took 80 years of denying reality.
11
Okay, NY Times, so am I supposed to be baffled, shocked, or both? I am a progressive reform Jew. The fundamentals of my thinking are embedded in the notions of democracy, rule of law, and equality. I have forever supported Israel as an extension of my Jewish-American orientation predicated on the aforementioned with a deep sense of Exodus and all things diaspora through Shoah that is guided in a sense by Tikkun Olam. So here we are, 17 years out from 9/11. The Saudi monarchy funded Al Qaeda, but this publication has never told us who amongst them did, although there are some arrows from the redacted/revealed on a Friday, 26 pages of the 9/11 Commission Report. In this timespan, Israel has gone hard right. Mr. Addelson has been very effective both within Israel and here guiding the push towards a 1-state solution. MBS has made bold moves towards modernity while casting a dragnet to reign in supposed corruption while spending lavishly on himself. Who amongst the holed-up-in-the-Ritz monarch's funded 9/11? Is the quid pro quo huge defense largess meets united front against Iran? Yes, I'm shocked that Saudi has made this recognition of Israel's right to exist and in another age, pre-9/11, I'd be leaping for joy. Instead, we've seen over the past 17 years the repression of the Arab Springs orientation to democracy that has propped up the aforementioned and towards what end? So that MBS has a united front and Isreal gets to maneuver a 1-state solution and adios Iran?
10
This seems like a moment akin to Sadat recognizing Israel.
4
I can't help noticing that out of 4 previous comments only one mentions the Palestinians. Clearly they are not very important.
14
The article was about Saudi Arabia's relationship with Israel.
8
No, the palestinians aren't really important. The Arabs began washing their hands of them when they sided with Saddam in the Gulf War. The distaste became larger when instead of true negotiations they declared war on Israel. Also all that money that was to go to building industry and improving the lives of their people instead went to Arafat and other leaders Swiss bank accounts.
The Arab governments privately trust Israel when they make secret agreements. They know that if you don't threaten Israel's safety they won't threaten you.
1
The real fascist in the M.E. is MBS. his takeover in KSA is the start. Demonizing a Shiite state has been going on for 1400 years. Another fascist in the ME is the Israeli PM. they are fellow travelers in the "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" sense. The Palestinians are odd man out in this US- Israel- KSA alliance.
The US loses again because we carry both KSA and Israeli water.
When we cannot be a 3rd party to peace negotiations we have no vital role in the ME. Another ME war will be disastrous to our Country.
10
The road to peace in the Middle East is economic. The ties between the Prince and Trump and his family have a solid financial foundation. A permanent peace in the Middle East is well within Trump’s comfort zone.The bottom line to peace may be the bottom line.
1
Replacing hatred towards one country with another will not solve middle east problems. As long as Saudis and Israel have unconditional support of the US, we should all be worried...
82
We should be a bit more worried about Iran, a nation whose leaders still shot "Death to America" daily. d
2
The more ambitious initiative would be for SA to sit down with Iran and mend their 1300 year split. Befriending Israel is relatively easy in comparison.
49
this from the leader of a country that does not allow any other faiths to practice in the kingdom...i'm an atheist and don't care at all about that, but the hypocrisy of the 'west' in their attitudes towards the saudis is disgusting.
99
My father fought in WW2 to make the world safe for hypocrisy.
5
We residents here in Seattle are still wondering why the Prince flew into town last Friday and shut down traffic with his private motorcade as he went to the Gates Mansion for dinner and had a private tour of Boeing.
With the recent appearance of Bolton, massive sales of weapons to Saudi Arabia and Israel, and talk of old enemies getting along, I wonder how many more months till Iran is invaded?
117
Probably Iran will be invaded right after Bolton talks Trump into a Bloody Nose in North Korea when talks don't go well there.
3
more days*
1
While Bin Salman’s baseless arrests and shakedowns of other Saudi princes and big businessmen were appalling, he happens to be right about Israel.
Does anyone think for one minute that Israel will simply turn over its land to the Gazans just because they demand it (aka the “right of return”)? Until the Gazans dump Hamas, they can be certain that their living conditions will continue to deteriorate.
18
Israel does not control Gaza. The last Israelis left Gaza more than 10 years ago.
69
@Tony:
Israel protects itself from continuous and deadly attacks from Hamas by controlling the Israel/Gaza border, preventing Hamas from importing weapons through ports, and controlling the airspace over Gaza. So while Israel doesn't "control" Gaza in the sense you mean, it does exercise very significant control.
In fact, Israel's control of the land/sea/air around Gaza is what Hamas and the Gazan people are always furiously complaining about.
The Gazans might be able to help themselves economically if Israel's land/sea/air control were lifted, but so long as Hamas is in charge -- using the foreign aid it receives to purchase weapons and dig tunnels into Israel instead of building its infrastructure, teaching hatred of Jews as part of the curriculum in its schools, and demanding that Israel has no right to exist and must turn over its land to the Palestinians -- Israel has no option but to protect itself.
Please note, also, that Egypt's border with Gaza is also closed almost all of the time. The Egyptians are no fools when it comes to the Gazans.
9
Egypt has always controlled Gaza.
4
And, of course, so do the Palestinians also deserve their own homeland. If only, if only.....
25
...if only they had a rational, reasonable leadership...instead they have Hamas and the PA (which has no power, no say and no credibility) and not even their fellow Arabs can stand them or want them. Even Egypt is blockading Gaza.
12
They have been offered half of Israel before and turned it down. With the 5% of Israel returned they control, Gaza, as a demonstration project, they have not done so well. Israel gave the SInai, 2/3rds of its land mass back to Egypt for peace. Whom has the moral and ethical claim here - the missile lobbing tunnel building Palestinians??
8
If only, if only...If only the Palestinian leadership, particularly Hamas in Gaza, talked of coexisting with Israel. Instead, they lead their civilians to mass at the border, and they make their intentions plain and clear in their chants: Take back ALL of Israel. Where are the Palestinians' peaceful intentions? How do you justify that?
3
Terrific development, if sincere (and he does seem sincere).
This appears to be an ironic result of Iranian anti-Zionism and anti-Semitism.
I do fear for the Prince's well being--there are many who would wish him ill, what with their blinding hate for Israel and the Jews.
10
The Prophet Mohammed forced that Jewish lady to become his wife, after murdering her husband and family. In turn, she poisoned him, though he survived, and he had her tortured and killed. Not exactly a marriage. There is some positive attitudes towards Jews in the Koran, but much is negative, if not worse. Time to look past this if relations are to be improved.
The Prince is way ahead of his family, especially the Saudi Kingdom, in terms of recognizing Israel as legitimate. If he could prevail, he might change the Palestinian attitude, or, drive them firmly into the Iranian camp. For now, Gaza is headed to the latter. Gaza could still transform itself into a viable state, though its population is way too large for the land. The average family size there isn't working. Egypt won't absorb some, because the related clans in the Sinai are often militants opposed to the Egyptian government. The answer is for emigration.
33
That's the real problem: overpopulation and diminishing resources of the third world, much of it the Islamic world. I wish I had the answer, but it sure isn't going to be the call by Antonio Guterres, Secretary General of the United Nations, for the Western world to each take in its "fair share" of refugees. So emigration isn't going to work, but how about the one thing the UN is good at: keeping people alive as refugees for generation after generation? Maybe giant refugee camps somewhere? As you contemplate the nationalism rising in Europe, the American election, the Australians stockpiling refugees on Nauru and then looking for somewhere to offload them, I don't think you can count on the Western world, not even Europe, the biggest bluest state of them all, passively becoming a third world escape valve.
4
Assuring their footing when the war with Iran begins. Only a fool wouldnt know this.
8
This is a monumental step forward from this enlightened Prince who is doing so many good things for his country and the region.
9
The Saudi's have had a peace proposal on the table for years. It involved a comprehensive Arab recognition of Israel and establishment of diplomatic relations in exchange for the withdrawal of the IDF from the West Bank and the establishment of a Palestinian state.
But has this proposal now changed? Certainly there is no longer an option for the Palestinians to have their capital in East Jerusalem and it appears that the Saudi's may be willing to recognize and normalize with Israel whether other Arab states go along or not.
The words "preferably in the context of peace deal with the Palestinians" may mean that the Saudi's are ready to totally abandon the Palestinians to pursue their own misadventures in the region.
1
It's worth noting that the Saudi Peace Plan actually required Israel to withdraw from "all lands captured in 1967" which includes the Golan Heights - a move that, given the collapse of Syria, would have left ISIS and now Iran in strategic control of northern Israel. So, there's that.
15
All humans work for two reasons. Incentives or Fear. Saudi Arabia has both to befriend Israel. This friendship would be good not only for these two but for the greater Middle East and to the world in the long run.
10
Fear is a pretty effective incentive. Perhaps you mean "Reward" and "Punishment"
1
Needless to say, this is encouraging news. The real issue, which is not mentioned one way or another in his statement, is whether Saudi Arabia still links peace with Israel, to the relocation of the descendants of the 1948 refugees to Israel. If the answer is yes, then it's merely same old, same old. If not, then it's a true breakthrough.
20
This is a place where they have actually been secretly for awhile. In their theological hierarchy of 'dislikes', apostasy (Iran) is the worse offender. In fact a reading of the Quran presents many examples of Muslims, Jews and Christians living and coexisting together peacefully. But apostates, no way!
1
There is no question that the Saudis and Israelis have mutual areas of concern and agreement regarding regional issues. As far as "peaceful," I would say between them, yes, but everyone else should take cover.
6