This account skips over some key episodes.Shortly after Clinton concluded his agreement with North Korea in 1994 the Republicans captured control of Congress and blocked funding for the fuel the US had agreed to provide North Korea in return for suspending their nuclear program. Not surprisingly North Korea then didn't fulfill its side of the deal.
When an agreement was close to being set in late 2000 President Clinton followed his staff's foolish advice to stay home while the presidential election was being litigated rather than go to North Korea to finalize the deal. Then came Bush who never was sincere in negotiating with North Korea.
Of course South Korea is a party to all these negotiations, and when rightwing governments were in power South Korea showed no interest in reaching a deal.
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Trojan Horse anyone?
VOTE 2018!
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Liberals have gotta have the most simplistic views of foreign geopolitics. I've read several comments saying we should just guarantee North Korea's security. Are liberals really suggesting that the United States guarantee the safety and continuity of a fascist dictatorship with 1/5 of its population in a concentration camp?
Also, only a liberal could believe that Kim Jung Un somehow will actually give up his nuclear weapons even if he were guaranteed security. He is just playing us as usual, and while we look like monkeys he is finishing up his warhead reentry technology.
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Halleluja! Trump's narcissistic "Me" seems to have surprised the reporters. I don't see why. It's exactly what one would expect from him. And Kim will no doubt claim that his missiles with their, alleged, nuclear warheads scared us into peace talks.
But who cares who gets credit for this precious opportunity.? For which we hardly dared hope for a few days ago. Let's just grab it with both hands and don 't let it go.
Let's just give peace a chance.
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Kicked out of the room while the big people talk. Now begging your way back to the table! Now there's a great bargaining position. Was that in "Art of the Deal"
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One way to look at this is, in the minds of both dictators (or dictator want to be in the case of trump), neither has anything to lose. Trump is in a win-win, since his view of winning is keeping himself in the news, and Kim really has nothing to lose, since he gains time any maybe pressure to relax any sanctions that may be hurting.
Once trump claims that he has "won", you can bet we've all lost.
I'm already sick of all this winning.
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If, in fact, Kim’s fundamental goal is the security and continuance of his country, a paradigm shift is in order. The North Korea offending/US punishing dynamic doesn’t work. So, find way to give North Korea security without needing the protection of nuclear weapons. And let’s think big in doing so. Hence:
The UN (or the next Nobel Peace Prizw Winner) convenes a peace conference to formally end the Korean War. Present are North Korea, South Korea, China, Russia, Japan and the US. The final terms will look something like:
(1) The US agrees to phase out all sanctions
(2) North Korea agrees to phase out current nuclear weapons and dismantle its nuclear weapons program. (Compliance monitored by the UN)
(3) All signatories guarantee the sovereignty and security of North Korea with China and Russia guaranteeing military protection from any attack from outside the Korean peninsula.
(4) North Korea and South Korea agree to comparable, non-nuclear militaries. (Monitored by the UN)
(5) As these changes occur, the US pulls out of South Korea while maintaining a robust presence in Japan and the North Pacific.
Lots of wins in this outcome. In adition to the obvious military and diplomatic gains, imagine the obvious scientific and engineering talent in North Korea taking a
constructive place in world affairs.
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Unlikely, any such outcome will also have to include a peace treaty to formally end the Korean War.
There is no doubt that Donald Trump will never, ever allow a "deal" with North Korea.
This is his single best "bright shiny object" to create international chaos and divert attention away from the Russian investigation.
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And the Russian investigations in turn are just a way for you to avert your gaze from the true face of today's America, which is perfectly represented by Donald Trump. Time to accept the ugly truth and stop making up excuses: that is your face in the mirror.
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The past does not have to predict the future. North Korea is cornered by tough talk, tough effective sanctions, US navy in the Korean Peninsula. The North and South Korea detente has given rise to new hope. Trump is not exactly in the same position as his predecessors, past four presidents. He is in a cautiously optimistic position to nudge the denuclearization of the Korean Peninsula with the help from countries with veto powers in the UN.
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Like the dog who caught the car, Mr. Trump is faced with the actual challenge of putting together one of his famous deals. You know, the ones you’ve seen so many times in the last year that you’ve gotten tired of them.
Trump is a loud mouth bully. N Korea will say anything to get their way.There will be no real progress. Ray Sipe
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North Korea is playing us like a banjo. Trump and Kim negotiating anything is a joke. Frankly, I believe Trump has met his match.
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This is no different then Russia or China, we have had talks with those countries and who knows if they really are living up to their end of any agreements that we may have with them.
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Kim is no fool. He has seen what happens when Third World dictators like Gaddafi and Saddam capitulated to the Empire and disarmed themselves. He ain't about to do the same!
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Seems like the commenters at the NYT would rather mock President Trump than seriously consider peace on the Korean peninsular. Fantastic way to keep the resistance alive, no matter the cost.
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Why do negotiations drag on?
A six-sided table. Let South Korea and North Korea broker their own deal.
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Yes. There're too many chefs in the kitchen.
What a leader! Just look at today's headlines on CNN.
1. Dow falls 300 points after Gary Cohn resigns.
2. Stormy Daniels sues Trump.
3. Trump's name pried from a hotel sign after dispute.
4. Trump's attorney got secret info from testimony, source says.
5. CNN host: Who's left? Everyone is leaving the White House.
6. What happened the day Trump said there was 'no chaos'.
7. 'Man of mystery' cooperating with Mueller.
8. Scaramucci is going after Kelly with Trump's blessing, source says.
9. The problem with Jared Kushner in the White House.
10. White House continues to delay gun proposals.
"On North Korea, Trump Finds Himself in Same Position as His Predecessors"
Not quite. Trump has no competence. That is how the situation is different.
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Yes, the same predicament as Obama, Clinton and Bushes. But with a critical difference: Trump will be riding into a battle of wits unarmed.
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The US must negotiate. The alternative is awful.
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North Korea's shift is clear evidence of what I have been saying all along. This hubbub and them getting so much nuclear ability so quickly is all down to China and their effort to get the US out of the western pacific.
I say we add a few dozen ships to teh fleet over there and start demanding that China evacuate those man made island fortresses they have built on the territory of other nations.
"Trump Finds Himself in Same Position as His Predecessors"
No. The circumstances are now very different
1. NK now has a hydrogen bomb and intercontinental missals capable of reaching the US
2. This has dramatically increased the pressure on the US to "do something" including a preemptive strike
3. In turn, this has very much alarmed China, who behind the scenes, has put increasing pressure on NK
4. Unlike his predecessors, Trump does not have the objective to "contain a rising China" with a ring of allies.
5. All of above, but in particular 4) clears the path to a settlement that has long been visible: Korea will turn into a neutral State, situated between China and Japan (its historic role), and the US will withdraw its troops from China's door step. In return, NK will be denuclearized, to the relief of China
To anyone familiar with the history of Asia, this is a return to the historic role of Korea, that served her well for centuries.
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And twenty minutes after the proposed "number 2" is engaged, Seoul it turned into a crater, we justify Kim's statements of needing the weapons as a purely defensive deterrent to the world opinion, and in proving him correct prove ourselves to be the aggressor.
No, continued diplomacy is the only solution, that and President Moon's wisdom in working to a solution on their front, without the 'help' of the Administration.
On the plus side, maybe djt will be the first president tried as a war criminal.
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Good point. The problem is there are two Koreas. Which one will prevail? Hopefully it'll be the South which is more acceptable to the world and to China if U.S. troops are withdrawn. Maybe one of the reason negotiations didn't work in the past is because there were two many outside players. The problem should be resolved by the Koreans themselves who we tend to underestimate.
We forget that Korean culture is one of the oldest in the world. It's older than that of Japan. For centuries, there was always one Korea and its history had known more stability than those of other countries in the world. It was one of the few Asian countries that managed to get along with Imperial China and vice versa. What's happening to Korea today is an aberration. The last time Korea was this disunited was in 9th century. Let's hope the Koreans can put their country back on its historical trajectory. If outsiders don't interfere, I think they have a better chance of making their country great again than Trump can with ours.
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Nuclear threat is the one and only leg that holds up North Korea. Does anyone think that it will be negotiated away? The best outcome is a freeze (with NK continuing to cheat).
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" the Trump administration should explore the prospect seriously, first by thoroughly debriefing South Korea’s envoys."
Gee- It probably would have been good to have an Ambassador in SK to help with this, but I'm sure it's on Beloved Leader's "To Do" list .
Maybe...
This is nothing local to the Korean Peninsula. This is all about getting rewards by playing countries against each other while tensions rise in the South China Sea.
Familiar predicament? Mr. Trump is not Bill Clinton, and certainly not milquetoast Barack Obama. This will not take long, and then where will Un be?China may be pushing to buy time, hoping Mueller comes up with something, and things can go back to business as usual.
Mr. Mueller does a great disservice to this country by not wrapping up his inqiry in an expeditious fashion, and his current efforts are beginning to obviate his many previous contributions to this country’s welfare.
Both of these guys think their press clippings are true, and they further agree the press itself is bad. Beautiful friendships have been founded on less.
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Kim can run rings around our incredibly short-sighted and easily baited "leader" by coming up with one gambit after another to buy time for further nuke development and sanctions evasion. There is NO question in my mind that Russia is in the background, and China too, looking for every possible way to get Kim to keep Trump off balance (there's a low bar) and the US position in chaos. None of this can be taken at face value.
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Let's review. Kim Jung Un has built, from scratch, a nuclear arsenal. He has done this by making it a single minded national project the likes of which we haven't seen since the building of the pyramids or the Great Wall. And from all the pictures and propaganda he is immensely proud of his accomplishment.
And he's just going to give it up? He's going to give it up for what - A promise? A promise from a man whose record for keeping his word is about as reliable as that of Joe Isuzu? (Young people, look it up.) I'm just a wee bit skeptical.
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Trump's foreign policy doctrine, stated last November when he told America, "I am the only one that matters", reflects his profound ignorance of international relations.
He has already demonstrated incompetence in this field with his mixed messages and telephone squabbles with foreign leaders, his uncritical enthusiasm for dictators (excluding Kim Jong Un), his categorical rejection of Palestinian hopes by moving the US embassy to Jerusalem, his uncritical embrace of the Saudi monarchy, etc. etc.
Our president is up against foreign entities who have decades of experience in international statecraft. He has none. This may be an instructive opportunity to see why we had a State Department, and why we don't need foolish, vacillating men playing at diplomacy when they aren't tweeting about celebrities and personal gripes.
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The chances of a successful deal are nil -- North Korea stalls and then renegs on any agreed to deal because they have little incentive to trade a nuke deterrent for assurances from the West. And then there is the problem of the USA -- the last dictator who gave up his nuclear program for security assurances was Momar Khadaffi -- he ended up shot in a ditch after being overthrown with our help. Kim Jong Un and every other dictator in his position will not forget his fate -- so no, "security assurances" plus aid will never lead to denuclearization of North Korea.
Why is this Kim Jong Un's move? Something about Trump quietly deploying close to a hundred stealth planes through carriers and regional air bases capable of a devastating first strike is the thing that he fears now...
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So this is a time where, at the least, we would need knowledgeable, smart negotiators on our side of the table. Oh, well.
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Yes, negotiators like Jimmy Carter, Bill Clinton, Hillary Clinton and John Kerry. After all, they were so, so successful in negotiating with North Korea. Sheesh.
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Oh yeah, because all the previous administration's negotiators, 2 dem presidents and 1 rep president got things done. yeah, good job to them.
Kim, this is Vladimir. You owe me big time for the oil, rocket science, nuke stuff and other help. I want pay back and my co-opted buddy in D.C. needs something to feed his base.
Make some noises like you'll be willing to talk about your nukes. Not that I expect you to change anything. The noise will help him in 2018 as if his bluster has really made a difference in your thinking.
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Kim is toying with the South and this administration. Does anyone really believe that a tyrant would freely give up power? The thought that he would give up power and a nuclear program to reunify with the south is ludicrous. The south is the real economic power and he wants it. The south has a fully functioning government, industries and people that are free. Kim brings to the table a large military that see him as a god like figure and a nuclear weapons program that the south does not want. So what does he get from any deal? The only way to get him to the bargaining table is to fully isolate his regiem with economic sanctions from the Chinese, Russians and the rest of the world. The north has what other countries want weapons of mass destruction and as long as there is a market for those, Kim will never step down or dismantal his nuclear/ballistic programs.
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Well, should we start by extending an olive branch in the form of eliminating the annual military exercise with South Korea? Every country with nuke capacity cries defense and security when taken to task. Let's see where this takes us.
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The willingness of people to accept Kim Jung Un at his word is laughable. This is the same repressive and totalitarian regime that stiffed Bush and Clinton when they signed on to treaties that were meant to prevent North Korea from building nuclear weapons. Face it, gullible U.S. politicians are being played again, and North Korea is simply buying time to develop the means and methods of delivering nuclear warheads to the U.S. mainland. Imagine their blackmail capability when that happens.
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Donald Trump doesn't "do" complexity. At some point he will become petulant, throw all the chess pieces on the floor, and stalk out.
Outmaneuvered once again.
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it's trumps continued and increasing sanctions plus Kim's realization that trump will not back down that put kim in the untenable situation he is in. Kim has no choice but to resort to this last ditch effort. trump ot that done. Kim doesn't want reunification with SK, he wants annexation of SK and all its natural, technological and economic resources to further his programs.
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