Here's the best solution. https://goo.gl/tEmKDi
Where is the safest school in America?
"It used to be that education was the number one thing that schools did," said Dr. Paula Maurer, superintendent at Shelby County Schools. "Now we need to keep our students safe first."
It's possibly Southwestern High School in Shelbyville, Ind. where they're using state-of-the-art technology to protect kids.
In many schools, an attacker can walk right in the front door and do massive damage in just minutes.
But at this school, they're going to extremes, using a brand new hi-tech security system that connects the school directly to the Sheriff's department.
They've installed lights. sirens and even doors that can stop a bullet.
But, that's not all.
The system costs $400,000 Parents, school officials, and law enforcement believe it a small cost to secure their children. Every school in America should have this system. How will we pay for it? The same way we paid to bail out the financial sector, to save it, to make it whole to the tune of $13 to $29 TRILLION. It won't cost a dime. Just like the bank bail out. https://goo.gl/ZLq6uJ
Because Shelbyville High School is a test school, the security company donated a big chunk of it.
The school got a government grant to pay the rest. https://goo.gl/AuGxNj
No conservative should ever agree to participate in the horribly biased "town halls" set up by CNN. They more resemble the lions and Christians in the Roman Colosseum than a rational discussion of issues. With CNN doing things like this, is it any wonder that public trust in the media is in the toilet?
7
It is time to repeal the second amendment. The original framers would agree. They never had military assault weapons in mind when they wrote it, and the society they lived in was very different than today. The NRA and it's members are no "well-regulated militia", and are led by a bunch of lunatics. The organization bears some of the responsibility for these tragic mass murders. If you are a member, you are part of the problem.
67
To me the NRA and the gun lobby are terrorists. They use their money to intimidate and subjugate Republicans in the House and Senate and the spineless Republicans go along with them. Anything for a dollar. The NRA showed its coercion of Marco Rubio last night when he said he would continue to accept the NRA's money. He looked like a fool and he'll probably be greatly rewarded by his masters.
62
The county official, Ms. Loesch, stated that simply enforcing mental health laws would magically erase this country's gun problems. First, how much has she taken from the NRA? Second, that young white man that killed a bunch of black people at a church prayer meeting had never bumped into mental health professionals so how would the mental health laws have prevented his slaughter? The kids in Columbine had no mental health issues leading up to their slaughter. AND . . Ms. Loesch must have forgotten that our laws do not prevent bona vide, demonstrated mentally ill people from buying guns. So what magical laws is she suggesting we enforce for magical results?
35
it's time to stop trying to reconcile the NRA's interpretation of the second amendment with the public good...it's time to advocate for a ban on private gun ownership...
31
The NRA spent almost $22,000,000 getting Donald Trump elected to the White House. He owes them more favors than anyone else in the world. As long as he is our President there really can’t be change to the gun laws, the NRA bought the election and owns the White House, “lock, stock & barrel.” Anyone who believed Trump was an honest politician who was too rich to care about such things was very naive and conned by the Russian propaganda.
We had Obama and Democratic majorities in the House and Senate not so long ago and did assault rifles get banned? The NRA is like “Big Brother” - it’s a frightening Orwellian organization of immense power and President Obama was a joke to them. Democrats, come up with a real candidate in 2020, someone with power and ideas - charisma and legislative chops. No movie stars, retirees or extremists need apply. And if you accept even one dollar from the NRA I won’t vote for you.
26
They will NEVER listen until their beloved one becomes a victim of gun violence.
23
Guns are not justified.
End of story.
25
I'd like to know where in the 2nd amendment defending myself means I have the right to own a military assault weapon . . .OR anything close to it . . .
33
Start with Senator Roy “Blunt by name, Blunt by nature” Blunt (R Missouri). He leads the league in accepting donations from NRA. Shame.
These students are awe inspiring!
19
At the end of the day when our constitution was written it included the 2nd amendment the right to bear arms. Unfortunately for all of us Thomas Jefferson and crew had any idea that those arms wouldn't be single shot rifles or 6 shooters. Had they known that the 2nd amendment wouldn't exist. To those in the NRA, wouldn't it be poetic justice if the next , "God forbid," massacre takes the life of your child, or grandchild or your spouse. It would be like Moses, "smiting" the house of the Pharaohs young born males. The NRA needs to be curtailed
14
Oh, guns are safe for our streets, and now, it seems should have a place in our schools.
But the GOP won't allow guns into their own convention.
Hypocrites.
27
As a psychologist it is immediately apparent that these politicians have absolutely no idea regarding predicting violence. They are completely ignorant. There is absolutely no way to predict who might become violent with a gun--none whatsoever. The American Psychiatric Association, much smarter than the American Psychological Association in this instance, took themselves out of the violence prediction business many years ago. There is absolutely no way to predict. The only way to stop this senseless violence is to control the guns; it is impossible to control the people once they have them. Read the literature. Why the politicians do not consult the experts, I do not understand. They consult experts on other topics.
35
I wish the New York Times would print a list of politicians who are receiving donations from the NRA and the amount. Call them out - publicize it.
30
Who's afraid of the NRA? Rubio, Rubio! Sung to the tune of "Who's afraid of the Big Bad Wolf?" Will we ever get money out of politics? Not until outrage reaches a boiling point. Are we there yet?
19
Well, that was a short career Rubio. I will be elated when you slide into obscurity!
12
Yeah for these other 2000 guns, limit the magazine capacity to 5 rounds.
4
I hope he is voted out of office. The problem is not the 2nd Amendment, it's the NRA.
12
I'm mentally ill and even I know I shouldn't have a gun, let alone a semi-automatic assault rifle with bump stock. See, I'm crazy — but I'm not stupid.
27
In general, I am in favor of jeering and lecturing Marco Rubio.
24
Again we watch our cowardly representatives in Congress bend over backwards so as not to upset their NRA contributors. Less than 6% of Americans are NRA members yet they completely control gun policy in the US. Shouldn't Congress also represent the other 94% of us on this issue?
23
The armed sheriff's deputy outside of the Parkland school never entered the school or engaged the shooter.
My question is, what could a single deputy have done in the face of a shooter with an AK 15 bumped to an automatic?
My heart goes out to the deputy who chose at the last minute to save his own life. Surely entering the school would only have served to up the body count and not saved a single child. Official protocol be dammed!
The guilt will follow this deputy--who immediately had the decently to resign-- all of his life when the real blames lies with Mr. Rubio and the advocates for putting assault weapons in the hands of children and other civilians. I doubt if the leaders and lobbyists for the NRA, 2nd Amendment supporters and spineless Republican politicians raking in the NRA blood money ever lose a wink of sleep over the carnage they enable.
A single law enforcement officer don't stand a chance. Nor will armed teachers.
Guns kill children. Automatic weapons kill children faster.
30
Rubio is typical politician who doesn't have guts but follows NRA the playing book blaming insane people, not the easy access to guns.
Let's face it no matter how insane a person is without guns he/she can never cause real harm to others.
11
Vote Rubio out and only support candidates who work for reasonable gun controls and banning of assault weapons.
21
He actually had someone from the NRA on stage with him to answer questions? It doesn't get more blatantly "bought and paid for" than that.
36
Mr. Rubio's compliancy, leniency, and forbearing for the NRA shows the readiness and willingness of politicians to show favor for campaign contributors.
In 2016, the NRA funnelled more than $1Million into efforts to re-elect the senator in Florida.
9
The NRA has 5 million members. They are single handily controlling the debate in this country. That is not democracy.
20
Trump, Rubio, Loesch from the NRA, are enemies of law and order.
They do nothing to stop mass murder although they are in a position of power that allows them to stop arming civilians with war weapons.
It's as easy as that: Trump and his acolytes are enemies of law and order.
When do the Democrats wake up and ATTACK ?
8
Well, Trump has been right about one thing, Rubio is "little Marco." Little integrity. Little spine. Little empathy. Little humanity. And of little value to making America a better place.
13
Dana Loesch puts the "heinous" in lobbyist. It is not by accident that she is a young woman. The NRA base is mainly male and they are trying to appeal through lobbying both to men and women.
Although lobbies and special interest groups are a part of our political culture, I do believe there such be much tighter regulations as to how much much they are allowed to spend. Follow the money...
4
I would be interested in a journalistic survey of which of our elected officials, including those who somehow found themselves as members of the executive branch, own guns. I would also like to know what type of guns and the reasons they give for owning guns. Do any claim ownership of an assault rifle?
Also, if elected officials are on the payroll of NRA--let's be realistic here--are they all gun owners? If not, why take the moola?
2
It's clear to me that to actually get something done about violence, we need a NATIONAL movement directed at repeal of the 2nd amendment. Any takers?
10
As long as the GOP is a lap dog for the NRA and its constituency, then assault weapons will continue to be the weapon of choice for mass murder. If Sandy Hook in 2012, Orlando Nightclub in 2016, Las Vegas in 2017, and Parkland in 2018 are not moving the majority party to reconsider a total ban on assault weapons - then what does it take? Where is the logic that an armed teacher (really! - sworn to uphold law and order in a school?) will put his/her life on the line going up against a lunatic with an assault weapon determined to cause as much destruction as possible with no concern for their own life? And are there really tools for law enforcement to weed out armed lunatics ready to commit mass murder? These are the questions I want to ask our elected officials.
5
Hand grenades are regulated under the National Firearms Act (“NFA”), a federal law passed in 1934 and amended by the Crime Control Act of 1968. The 1968 amendments made it illegal to possess destructive devices, including grenades. (26 U.S.C. § 5801.)
Can anybody explain why an assault rifle is not considered a destructive device? Or should we expect people to show up with hand grenades? Note that the destructive device doesn’t have to be used. It is illegal to possess such a weapon.
11
Dislike Rubio but he showed up. Trump and the Gov of Florida (really?) didn't have the guts to show their faces. As far as the NRA showing up, no doubt that was a marketing opportunity.
8
What are the Republican opponents to Democratic Senator Nelson saying about curbing gun excesses? That's where the focus of Floridians must be. Nelson faces re-election in the fall, and he's solidly behind the students and vocal in proposing restrictions on gun sales.
Rick Scott, who never met a gun nut he didn't like, is purportedly running for Nelson's seat. If so, the contrasts couldn't be clearer.
Floridians. Vote for the kids of the Sunshine State. Vote for sanity and safety. Vote for the unfettered pursuit of happiness.
9
Rubio, and his 534 colleagues in Congress are guilty of accepting blood money from the NRA and weapons manufacturers. Point-finis. They are beholden to that industry, and not to the people who they are elected to represent.
All we have to do is implement a federal ban on all assault and automatic weapons, period. Perhaps a buy back period, with forgiveness. Say 18 months.
After that...you have an automatic weapon, or a semi-automatic modified for automatic fire, as in bump-stock, and it's a felony carrying a mandatory 10 year prison term.
Until and unless the american people decide to fund federal elections from the federal treasury, and forbid PAC's and private donations, we are going to continue to have The Best Congress Money Can Buy. Weak-willed, lily-livered
individuals willing to take blood money, so they can continue to hold their office.
That, my friends, are the seeds of our destruction as a nation.
11
This is what happens when Republicans step outside of their echo chambers. They're forced to reckon with reality and change their positions.
6
Marco Rubio should just come out and say what he feels which is that he cares more about the NRA's position then he does about the lives of young people in his own state. Period. This is about corporate profits over the healthy and safety of people. The NRA represents gun manufacturers. All the individual gun owners are who are members of the NRA are simply window dressing. Afterall, most members of the NRA support sensible gun regulations.
6
How do we define evil? How about one definition be giving money to the NRA , taking money from the NRA as a politician , gaining wealth from the sale of high powered multi shot weapons ? Who want's to feel like their actions are evil ? But how is this not evil ? Gaining gun money when it is SO CLEAR that assault rifles are causing so many to die ? Beautiful people that had futures ? And it's not just these sales. Just last year Trump signed a bill that made it easier for people with mental health issues to buy a gun , why? And we still sell these guns at gun show with NO CHECK at all ? What would stop 2 or 3 of these machine gun wielding people from walking into a school or other public place and killing hundreds of innocent people ? That door is wide open as things are today. I would love to send money to an organization that is set up to counteract all of the NRAs efforts at the state level on up to the Federal level .. where is that organization ?
8
If people want to own assault rifles why not join the military in order to do so?
8
Ms. Loesch is not just spokeswoman for the NRA. She is the NRA Pitbull. Loesch doesn't deflect questions. She attacks with partial facts, and inaccurate descriptions of law and history. When she asserted that "“I don’t believe that this insane monster should have ever been able to obtain a firearm, ever,” what she really said is "As long as a gun buyer is not identified as an insane monster then they can legally buy any gun they want." She kept on asserting that the problem is the people who buy guns not the guns themselves. That is not deflection it is an outright lie. Ms. Loesch will not even agree to raising the legal age for eligibility to buy an AR 15 while a buyer must be at least 21. Ms. Loesch was also off base when she attempted to describe the term "Militia" as used in the 2nd Amendment. She had no idea of the historical basis and foundation for the creation of militias in early America. She didn't even know that being in the militia was at one time a requirement for citizens who were defending the frontier against more than just Indian nations. She also was unaware of the NRA's role in teaching marksmanship and readying men for entry into the military before and during World War I. The NRA was once the good guys!
As for Mr. Rubio he was totally out of touch and off base. He stood "stone faced" because he was overwhelmed by the vehement protests directed against him.
My heart is broken for everyone who lost children and loved ones. Rubio has no heart.
14
Isn't a well regulated militia the National Guard? If so, for the rest of us the right to be armed is a privilege not a right.
9
The nra and Rubio did the typical double speak. No one held their feet to the fire for an explanation as to why when the assault rifle ban expired under the republicans did mass shootings rise 200%. Why did no one bring up that all other countries with gun control also have mental health problems but no mass shootings? I think they got let off the hook. Nothing is going to get done . No one held the nra feet to the fire on the gun shoe loophole. Sorry, more killing to come to a neighborhood near someone.
6
I want to advance an argument against the Republicans' expanded mental health solution to gun outrages, that I have not heard. It is clearly a smokescreen they use until, they hope, the whole gun control thing blows over again.
Let’s imagine that the Republicans did appropriate huge sums to hire new health professionals all over the country and establish databases of potential perpetrators. Of course, we all know that is not going to happen, but even if it did, the system cannot be perfect. Both the FBI and Florida health services missed Nikolas Cruz. If only one is missed, out he goes to a gun store and dozens more children are dead.
Banning all assault weapons is the only solution. Sure, they will be available (for a steep price) on the black market, and lots of gun nuts will secretly keep theirs. But people with motives similar to Nikolas Cruz could not just plunk down their cash at the corner gun store. For the Cruz’s of the world, assault weapons would be very difficult to obtain, and many children would be saved.
5
Anyone with knowledge of historical background would understand the second amendment was intended to allow a citizens militia,in the 1770’s, to assemble in the small towns to defend our fledgling country. Weapons were limited to muskets and cannons a musket which would’ve taken a minute or two to reload after a single shot have no resemblance to an AR 15 assault weapon of today it’s time to update the intent of the constitution
6
Trump was too cowardly to show up, as was Rick Scott. At least Rubio owned up to being owned.
5
im not a liberal but I stand with all those wanting controls on ownership of assault weapons. There should be nothing political about it at all, it’s just common sense.
8
Rubio is a small, weak man. Corrupt and beholden to the NRA to the time of millions, he is unable to think for himself or even consider common sense gun laws that are supported by the vast majority of Americans. He has no business being in politics any longer
10
Great. A generation of voters who will vote. Probably against the NRA. Hopefully against Republicans.
And I hope the young women can meld this movement with MeToo.
7
Rubio can take it. He's being paid three milion dollars to take it. And laughing all the way to the bank.
6
Sunday at church someone said that she, "was concerned that we were a country that loved our guns more than our children."
5
The NRA and other gun rights advocates say mental health screenings/roadblocks would have kept this recent school shooter from getting a firearm. However, they fail to mention the Vegas shooter and many other mass killers had no known mental illness at the time.
7
So called "assault weapons" are just semi-automatic rifles and based on data from the FBI Uniform Crime Reports rifles of ALL TYPES COMBINED are used in only about 2.5% of murders. The small "assault rifle" sub category is logically then used in even fewer than that. Meanwhile handguns are used in over 47% of murders based on the same data. A semi automatic rifle is not needed to stage a mass shooting, Cho at VA tech didn't use one, he simply used a handgun and killed 32 people vs the 17 killed in Parkland. Even if these gun control advocates believe they can stop a person so committed as to be willing to trade his own life, either by being killed, or spending life in prison, to carry out a mass shooting from getting one of the hundreds of millions of guns in circulation already, they are still focusing on the wrong weapons because the percentage of murders they are used in is tiny and the percentage or murders handguns are used in is quite large.
https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2015/crime-in-the-u.s.-2015/tables/...
1
Rubio's refusal to back new gun-control measures adds just one more notch in the Republicans' impending defeat in the November midterm elections. A defeat that will be Resounding.
P.S.: I've lost count of the notches; i.e., the Republicans' disgraceful policies and behavior. In Trump's time alone, those notches now number in the 100s.
7
The gun shop owner, who unfortunately happened to be the one to sell the gun that was used in the Parkland shootings, and closed his shop voluntarily out of remorse has more morality in his toe nail than Sen Rubio, DT, the rest of the GOP or NRA will ever have. The mentally troubled student with a gun in his hand is the end result of their greed and politics.
11
Air Marshals but no School Marshals?
That is the telling priority and needs to be changed.
1
What do you mean Rubio gets credit for showing up. That is his job showing up and answering to his constituents. He and all other elected officials should do it more often and spend less time with lobbyists and big dollar donors.
9
"The spokeswoman for the N.R.A., Dana Loesch, (said) 'People who are crazy should not be able to get firearms ... ' " But as long as military grade weapons are for sale at many, many locations, they will find a way. "From the time Cruz entered the building until the time he left, only six minutes passed. During that brief time, he shot more than two dozen people, including 17 fatally." (Newsday) So maybe just a minute or two of actual shooting. High rate of fire guns, high capacity clips, these weapons have no legitimate purpose for civilians. All the deflections about mental health, "bump stocks", arming teachers, etc., is just more tribute to the NRA, whom Mr. Trump said he "would never let down".
5
Our elected office holders are answerable to their constituents. Too many of them have increasingly been avoiding any public forums with voters. Rubio gets credit for showing up but it’s a very low bar. Rick Scott’s future Senate bid should suffer because he avoided the CNN town hall. Since the Florida killings, Rubio had made minor changes to his views on guns and gun control. But it seems difficult to believe that his feelings about guns came before any NRA pressure and NRA money. Hopefully, the young people now at the front of the debate will keep up the it pressure on all elected officials. When the next mass killing occurs, hopefully the pressure will only increase. The unhinged thoughts of Wayne LaPierre present a country that doesn’t exist. But the NRA wants to scare people to death. Only the NRA and gun manufacturers benefit from arming teachers and turning the country into a police state.
2
Before I let myself go overboard with how impressed I was with Rubio's willingness to show up, I have to remember what his stated positions are:
1) I will continue to be the bought and paid for representative of the NRA?
2) Haters gonna hate, people gonna kill, no law's can stop that so why try?
3) I will not support a ban on weapons of war.
The fundraising Rubio did over his appearance last night (he was, after all, the sacrificial lamb in the eyes of the right wing) more than outpaced any other member of the senate this month (or year). That's a promise you can take to the bank.
3
Apparently lacking civility leads people to think they’re accomplishing something. Actually, they’re ignored.
1
There should be people like Fred Guterman and Andrew Pollack standing up to the NRA. These men, in the depth of grief, have the moral courage to speak against lunacy, but our public figures--politicians and CEOs-- do not.
6
It might just be me, but I think this country is heading for a big political upheaval.
If only Democrats would seize the moment....
6
Keeping guns out of the hands of criminals does present a great challenge. Many people are not criminals until they possess a firearm and commit their first crime.
1
I have not seen any assault weapon ban proposals that would alter future outcomes of these tragic events. Banning models of rifles would only require manufactures to make superficial changes and issue new model numbers for current guns. To be effective you would have to roll back rifle technology to pre magazine fed designs and freeze it there.
Reduced magazine capacity would likely be just as ineffective. Could you not carry twice as many 10 round clips as 20 round clips in the same bag?
We are not being offered solutions just campaign slogans.
While I don't agree with Sen Rubio's positions, he showed up and engaged with people who had different opinions. He showed a willingness to listen and to consider changing his mind. Rather than castigating him, we should applaud his example. I think it took courage and I congratulate him.
2
I'm curious to see how this all plays out, because right now, if the Republican party wants to save itself, it has to step up and do something. The are the ones who have sustained this madness for the last 30 years or more, and they alone will have to fix it. If the Dems do it, Republicans will forever fixate on that and try to undo it. So, it has to be them. And last night, when the entire auditorium erupted in cheers when Rubio said "well, then we'd have to ban all semi-automatic firearms", the look of shock and surprise on his face was amazing. It was, hopefully, an epiphany for him.
Sixty years ago another plague was destroying our democracy, although not so directly, in the form of McCarthyism. Feared Senator Joseph McCarthy was a two-bit Republican who played off of the cold war fearmongering to ruin lives and careers of countless people and organizations, until he was felled by a colleague. And it was under a Republican president, with a Republican House and Senate that they voted to undo all McCarthy had worked for. So, we must keep pushing, and pushing, and pushing to make the Republicans act, otherwise any substantive gun control laws will never have any staying power.
4
Follow the money. Political contributions and the gun manufacturers.
NRA contributes money to support politicians including Rubio and Trump.
NRA and Gun industry hide behind the 2nd amendment, the right to bear arms.
How do we change this situation?
1. Public financing of political campaigns?
2. Anti-NRA fund-raising group who oppose pro-NRA politicians?
3. Revoke the 2nd amendment or pass laws to restrict gun ownership?
Number 1 is not likely.
Number 2 could be done today.
Number 3 could be done if NRA was neutered given the outrage over mass shootings.
3
The country is divided on gun rights: half insist on the individual right to self defense (2nd Amendment); half want to strictly control or eliminate private gun ownership. However its possible a compromise could be built around:
1. Establish a national "No Gun List" including a new category defined with the help of the APA as "likely to be a danger to themselves and others". Provide legal/judicial due process to have individuals put on, and taken off, this list. Publish the list.
2. Five year minimum felony penalty, without parole, for putting a gun into the hands of a No Gun Listee. Five year felony penalty, without parole, for any felon possessing/carrying a gun. No plea bargains permitted on gun crimes
3. Require all "gun free zones" to have armed guards. We don't live in 1950 anymore; today's murderers view gun free zones as undefended target rich kill zones.
4. Raise minimum gun purchase age to 21. Require background checks on third party sales, not on family transfers.
Turn anger about this deranged killing into pragmatism instead of propaganda...
The second amendment says nothing about turning our schools into citadels of security to protect our children. School boards and state and local funding bodies should come together and determine where security is weak or non existent and beef it up. That would make the school(s) an unattractive target for a mentally unstable person's rage. It's an unfortunate fact that Rubio will not stop taking money from the NRA and help with gun control. He's a puppet, a pawn and a parrot. But, until he does, strengthening our campus security may be the only viable solution. We don't need to arm teachers. We need fencing, metal detectors, expanded CCTV and training for human monitors.
1
Maybe the argument needs visuals, just like we get from other war torn countries far away where women and children, and good teachers, nurses, doctors, and religious workers are gunned down or blown to bits. Because any person who uses a military weapon on civilians has established clearly---"this is a war and I'm waging it on you."
1
Although this town hall was a bit raucous, it was like a real town hall meeting with serious questions a follow-up comments. That gives me hope that this generation will be different and press those that can get things done.
2
Mr. Rubio likely showed up to avoid being labeled a coward in his home state while preparing for another presidential run but he cannot follow through on anything while taking money from the NRA. He has a history of landing on both sides, speaking against unpopular bills then voting for them with his party and donor wishes.
The expression on the NRA spokesperson was one of anger - likely more used to friendlier audiences - but she came well prepared with their talking points and gave no ground. The NRA uses intimidation and money, fighting back with most of their money coming from gun manufacturers. The NRA is protecting profits not gun rights. They are a lobbying organization not one protecting freedoms. All of that rhetoric is a byproduct to protect their financial future.
1
“People who are crazy should not be able to get firearms,”
I am rabidly anti guns, but why not start somewhere where we can have a tiny bit of compromise?
Mental health laws in this country are a disgrace in that people with serious mental illnesses can not be treated unless they agree to be committed.
We should update our mental health laws. An important part of that should be the restriction for mentally ill people to obtain any kind of weapon.
Minors should also be restricted from acquiring weapons.
Rubio's remarks revealed that he didn't really understand the environment he was in. Or, if he did, he was being intentionally obtuse.
The audience wanted to speak about goals and the means to achieve them.
Rubio wanted to dive into the weeds of current bills.
And, then, of course, the usual insistence that money isn't corrupting.
Frankly, Rubio didn't seem that bright.
4
The kids and parents showing up and standing for what is right so quickly after a tragedy and loss of loved ones are incredibly brave and strong.
4
A "good guy with a gun," a trained deputy, was at Parkland. He apparently panicked. He did not engage the shooter. The narrative of arming teachers is a fantasy. Very few people are in the emotional position to be able to perform correctly under such a stressful emergent tragedy. Maybe an elite strike force like SWAT could. No other first world country needs a SWAT team at every school. Americans have their heads in the sand. The Second amendment needs to be strongly regulated. The sheer number of guns in this country has made us unsafe. Any sentient being should be able to come to this conclusion.
3
Other countries have gun controls and subsequently fewer problems with guns. Why hasn't the US learned from their examples?
Other countries have also figured out single-payer universal health coverage. The US still thinks people are better off getting sick and the fairy godmother will come to their aid.
Just like the student every teacher hates to have, the US is disruptive, the class bully who thinks it has all the answers and doesn't need to learn.
It's great that Rubio and the NRA rep both got skewered but will they learn anything from it? We need to unseat people like Rubio and then run organizations like the NRA out of town.
4
The NRA gives over 90% of its campaign contributions to Republicans, according to OpenSecrets, so nonsense from Republicans should surprise no one. Democrats publicly announce they will no longer accept NRA donations, freeing them to propose the right listing of "gun violence prevention" measures (don't call it gun control).
These include:
1. Requiring gun owners to belong to well-regulated state militias, which are financially liable for the gun violence of their owners. This in turn will require militia insurance, paid for by premiums from gun owners. This will give everyone a financial incentive to keep guns away from bad actors, and charge more to those who want more dangerous weapons.
2. The usual obvious list of no assault rifles, magazine size limits, background checks, minimum ownership age 25 for males, etc.
1
Good to see this empty suit and his enablers called out. Not that it will make a difference unless the voters remember and act the next time he's on the ballot.
4
Why not legalize a limited set of guns and make all the others illegal. If new guns show up or existing guns are modified they are automatically illegal.
1
According to my dictionary, "assault (noun): a military attack or raid on an enemy position."
By what logic is an "assault rifle" a means for defense of the home? These are weapons of war that should never be on our streets or in our homes.
3
Senator Rubio suggested a ban on high-capacity magazines would not prevent the attack, but may have made it less lethal. He understands less bullets equals less death therefore a ban on assault rifles or a ban on guns itself will cause less death. Come on Senator, this really is 2 +2=4.
1
And he gets how much money from the NRA in return for uncritical support of whatever they demand? Is Rubio working for Florida or for the NRA? Three guesses say NRA all the way.
13
Here's what Open Secrets reports for every member of the U.S. Congress, both annually and cumulatively, based on information provided by the NRA -- https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1-7PdCI2NawSgP1QE-cGYVYedetYqepR-....
In summary, Marco Rubio is 6th highest among Senators for receiving NRA support, a little over $3M over his 8 year Senate career which, I am guessing, is indicative of how important Florida's Electoral College cotes are to the GOP. Of course, he also has his well-earned A+ NRA rating. And, as long as he's a good boy, he won't be primaried by his own party and gets to keep his $174,000 a year job.
2
Senator Rubio and Ms. Loesch are both frauds when they attempt to explain their position on stopping gun violence in public school.
Rubio said he will continue to accept NRA money and Ms.Loesch continued to affirm her position allowing assault rifles to be available to 18 years.
One cannot be for protecting public school students against gun violence by continuing to accept NRA money, as Rubio does,or agree that 18 year olds can by assault rifles, which is Ms. loesch's position.
One cannot have it both ways, which strongly shows that both Rubio and Loesch have no grasp of the continued danger they are creating for public school students .
The horror is glaring lack of concern and empathy neither Rubio or Loesch showed during this televised event.
The underlying message from Rubio and Loesch is that NRA money feeds politics, and political money will continue to say what public issues are important, obviously assault rifle sales to 18 year olds and public school safety did not make the list.
12
Good for Rubio. Dont agree with him, but he has the courage to engage. Through engagement we learn, and minds change. I have never felt more highly about him.
1
For one thing, the amendment to bare arms was written and passed during the time of muskets, and in that time, it made sense. It does not make sense now. There is absolutely no reason for anyone to have a gun.
11
I usually like long sleeves to cover my arms instead of leaving them bare.
2
Here is the solution: Register to vote and then vote. Tell all your friends to register, engage in useful conversation with them, and go to the voting polls together. Join groups like the League of Women Voters who constantly are running voter registration drives and ask your friends to join you. I am sure there are groups for men that have drives. Five miles from where I live is a city that has a 30% poverty rate and black population slightly higher. I go there when I have chance and talk to people. Get involved. It is the only thing that will make a change.
13
go and vote. the second amendment will be upheld by the supremes. then go try to change the constitution. if you succeed, (you won't) THEN learn to read and critically think. only about 5,000 die from gun violence and over 90% are killed by criminals who illegally acquired the gun. problem not solved. legislation can't fix stupid. Then go try to confiscate legal weapons, that will be "fun" to watch. Next let's make ladders illegal.. saves lives
"...and I do support the Second Amendment."
Guess what. Most of us support that amendment. But we also support persona responsibility, which means limitations, restrictions, rules and regulations. And if a person cannot follow those rules, you should lose that FREEDOM.
We already restrict arms. We have ever since that amendment was ratified. No one owns cannons, grenades, and other "arms". We define the term "arms" however we want to define it, and if that means no assault weapons, then that's the definition.
It is only the NRA who wants to define arms in a specific way, and that definition is amazingly broad and inclusive, and restricts any kind of SANE suggestion of personal responsibility.
8
When the second amendment was written in the late 18th century, the United States was a poor, lightly populated country. We could not AFFORD to have a standing army. This is why we had the minute men, named that because, as Paul Revere showed in 1775, they could be ready in minutes to do battle as our militia. Now we have the army, the Navy, the Marines, the Air Force the Coast Guard and a police force and every single town. We no longer have to roust our citizenry in the middle of the night to go to battle. And even if we did, there is nothing well regulated about gun ownership in our country today. We actually have no idea who owns what, nor how well equipped they are to use their guns effectively .We demand more certification of people who are doing business as barbers or plumbers or manicurists then we demand of gun owners. Lastly, no one other than a policeman or a military person should have an automatic rifle at his disposal.
I can’t understand why the NRA and it’s ridiculous position haven’t been attacked on this basis. But until the anti-gun forces can raise as much money as the NRA and scare legislators to bits at the idea that they might lose their offices if they are against gun control, nothing will happen.
12
I don't own a gun but I support the right to own gun. However. I strongly believe civilian have not at all the need to possess military style assault weapon. There are legitimate reasons for civilian to own guns: namely, self protection, hunting and sports shooting, but none of these reasons calls for automatic or semi-automatic weapon with high capacity magazines. Let's renew the assault weapon ban as the first step.
6
The children are our future and they have the power. Marches are fine, but if they want to make a true impact getting the attention of politicians they need to register to vote, and keep it up as each new class becomes eligible. Make the anticipation of being eligible to vote be right up there with getting your learner's permit.
4
It was a good night for Sen. Bill Nelson as it was a bad one for Rubio. For all intensive purposes, it may well have been the official start of his campaign for governor. Without him leading strong, the Democrats won't have much of a chance in a Florida, but if he can raise his profile enough, then they may stand a good chance of taking control of Tallahassee for the first time in decades. And believe me, my old state definitely needs the change in leadership.
3
Correction, Phil Levine is the one actually running for governor. Nelson is simply defending his Senate seat against Gov. Rick Scott.
1
This should be pretty simple: The only people who should be allowed to possess an assault weapon are people who carry a badge or are active military -- i.e., people who have a legal responsibility (and a demonstrated commitment) to protecting others. That's what the NRA says this is all about, right? Protecting people? That's why they want to arm teachers? If so, then this should be a pre-requisite. And active law enforcement and military have to go through training and screening, which helps weed out the "crazy" people the NRA refers to here. Win-win, right? Except, of course, that this isn't the NRA goal. The NRA goal is to get more guns into circulation so that they can continue opposing sensible gun control laws because it will be "too difficult" to collect all the illegal guns that are already out there.
5
It's almost amusing the nearly complete lack of knowledge about firearms from most of the commenters here. Almost.
1
Whats not amusing, JC is that thousands of people in this country; a country that is not in civil war, are being killed by firearms. Nothing amusing about that.
5
NRA: Active Shooters!!
2
The Florida gunman, a 19-year-old white former student named Nikolas Cruz, was a member of the Army Junior Reserve Officer Training Corps program, and was also part of a four-person JROTC marksmanship team at the school which had received $10,000 in funding from the NRA. Why is the media not reporting this except for Democracy Now?
NRA trains terrorists in our schools?!!!!!
5
Ms.Loesch,
Your comment about “crazy people should not have guns”, ? You are a clueless moron. What is your definition of “crazy” Ms.Loesch?
Is it to label my sweet, kind, loving son who suffered horrendously from schizophrenia and took his own life rather than hurting others?
You have no business being in a position to speak about “crazy” people to the public when you are so ignorant of the plights if the mentally ill.
My son was a hero, brave and courageous. You should only have a tenth of his courage. EDUCATE YOURSELF.
7
So the NRA bought into senator Rubins agenda? So what’s if the KKK bought into his agenda? Or the Nazi party? Would he still wash his hands of any responsibility and take their money? Unbelievable.
7
There are mental health laws? What on earth is Dana Loesch talking about?
20
Look it up! Under current federal laws, a person can be legally rejected from obtaining a firearm if they have a mental illness documented by a court or government office or if they have been involuntarily committed to a mental institution.
Such a failed human this Senator. Disgusted.
26
This is a case of pure and simple corruption. The right for someone to own a semi automatic gun cannot trump the right of a citizen's right to life and liberty. When we ask citizens to arm themselves to fight for their lives in our streets so that the gun manufactures can maintain or increase sales, those advocating that idiocy are surely corrupted by the money from the sales of those guns. As long as this is pointed out over and over, we should be able to vote these corrupt insane idiots out and restore our beloved democracy.
28
And not a Democrat in site, nor any kind of statement from the democrats
Nice job NYT's
2
What do you expect of a country that has hundreds of thousands of homeless, millions with no healthcare, millions of others with pathetic yet expensive healthcare, has an official policy of human caused Climate Change denial and is fighting the country's longest war against a backward group of religious zealots who look exactly like they did 1000 years ago then to have Rubio, Trump and LaPierre as it's school safety policy officials?
Small hands the lot.
17
Data speaks loudly. Get the facts - Florida's scorecard is an 'F' on gun laws from the Giffords Law Center http://lawcenter.giffords.org/scorecard2016/#map
14
Where is he full frontal assault by Schumer and Pelsoi? They are NAPPING! ZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzz
6
I've received emails from Senator Feinstein and Representative Pelosi who both spell it out.
1
The NRA’s fetishistic love of guns and its fantasy of violent insurrection against a repressive government has blinded them to the fact that we currently live under a Constitution in a democratic republic founded by American Patriots. They cling to a perverted, macho delusion that they themselves are the Patriot army of the American Revolution while ignoring the fact that what they promote is insurrection against Democracy, the Constitution and the very Revolution our Founders fought for. The NRA is unpatriotic, undemocratic and unhinged at its core.
19
I will support the second amendment, which was approved in 1791, when its rabid adherents realize that firearms available in 1791 have undergone a few changes. Yes, let's give everyone the right to bear the same arms that were available to the people who crafted the second amendment.
Bob . Trumansburg NY
31
Don't waste your breath, all they care about is the NRA money and rating. Otherwise the NRA and the Republican party don't care how many people are killed by guns any more then republicans care about people dying over pills they had spread the abuse of them.
Blame yourself you keep voting the NRA party into office
Marco is just playing to the fools in the crowd, he not going to change his NRA paid view.
Thanks again south Fla you voted again for Little Lying Marco.
16
A vote for any office holder who takes money from the NRA is a vote for the NRA. A vote for the NRA is a vote for tyranny.
21
Just when it sounded like Rubio was beginning to hear the students message he confirmed he is till drinking NRA Kool-Ade. Vote him out at the first opportunity.
14
Marco Rubio is a class A hypocrite. Perfect politician. Say one thing, do another. Change message to fit the room you're in...
15
Florida governor not attending - beyond lame.
15
Can't make this up - these folks can't bring themselves to ban weapons of mass murder, but...
https://nypost.com/2018/02/22/lawmakers-propose-bill-to-ban-saggy-pants/
"...if passed, House Bill 4957 would make it illegal for a person to wear pants “sagging more than three inches below his ileum,” according to the South Carolina Legislature’s website...
12
This is just another of the many examples of the Republican Party not caring a whit about anything but money and money at the expense of sensible safety. They are in lock-step with the NRA’s ambition to turn the clock back to the Wild West. They won’t be happy until there’s a AK-47 in everybody’s hand and one in a holster - along with as many clips as your heart’s content. What the Republican Party/NRA legislate and advocate for but won’t say out loud: “Shootings everyday? Great!!! Just think of all the jobs that will be created in the assault weapon, ammunition and casket communities!!!!”
6
Rubio is running for President in 2024 and he's not about to let a shooting here or there stand in his way. He is a soulless, cowardly politician.
18
That's right all the lefties should sit down with all the trigger puller murderers and talk about feelings and repeatedly tell them its not their fault, and then release everyone from prison and then blame and go after the NRA, gun manufacturers, and Republicans.
1
Where is the media outrage when 300 people have been shot and killed in Chicago so far this year, in less than two months? Oh yeah, those were hundreds of poor minorities from the inner city and these were rich white kids from the beaches of South Florida. Racism in mainstream American media is alive and well.
2
sick to death of this nonsense.All AR 15s and ammo should be banned.
12
Perhaps we should all look forward to the day persons like Rubio vote to allow AR15's in legislative balconies, checked only by a "psycho detector" at the entrance.
9
This pretty NRA spokesperson then spoke at CPAC today, and related the "party line" that mass shootings were just a media fixture, thus blaming the media rather than an organization gone toxic with power.
Looks are deceiving. Perhaps the fair Dana's next stop is working in warped porn, such as the sequel to "Ilse, the She-wolf of the SS"?
3
Wish I could wipe that smile from Bill Nelson and Ted Deutch's faces! It's ingratiating!!
I’m jeering at Floridians who voted Rubio back in office after he lied that he wouldn’t run.
9
Yes, many things can be used to harm another individual as many things are build for many purposes and can be used for nefarious intent other than what it was designed for. With a hammer, you can help build a house, or crack ice, or crack some nuts open and so on. A screwdriver can be used for its namesake, or to puncture a hole, or use it as leverage to pry things.
But a gun, was designed and is used for only one purpose.
And those who say "what about target practice", yes, it is PRACTICE to get good at what the purpose of the gun is and nothing more.
So what is it with Americans that they are so enamored with the enhanced ability and power to end another life??
What does it say about the people who opt for this desire? What does it say about a country that has more guns than citizens?
8
In his prior run and now, Rubio shows himself to be a posturing empty suit and an opportunist with no fixed principles. He said he would accept the support of anyone who "buys into his agenda"-- including the NRA. So how far does that extend, Mr. Rubio? Is there any money you would refuse if it furthers your ambitions? Disgusting.
6
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2018/02/what-i-saw-treating...
From a Radiologist in Parkland Florida who treated the victims.
3
What is the legitimate purpose for ANY semi-automatic weapon outside of the military, and, perhaps, law enforcement? What? I can't think of ONE. If you can't hunt with an ordinary rifle, an extraordinary advantage over the animal in and of itself, then you STINK at hunting.
Ban all semi-automatic weapons for civilian use NOW.
9
Rubio has accepted over 3 million in NRA bribes to say "gun laws would not have .... yada yada".
To NRA: you could have gotten the same thing for bucks.
My boilerplate response to every gun related article:
Learner's permit
Written and skills test.
License
Registration, insurance, and title required for each gun.
Infrastructure already exists, simply add another category in every department of motor vehicles.
Ticket, fine, jail violators based upon severity of violations.
Ban ALL battlefield weapons and paraphernalia.
Publish the names and amounts of every politician accepting donations (bribes) from NRA.
Remove the law shielding all gun manufacturers from lawsuits.
Vacate Citizens United (legalized bribery), thus making bribery illegal again.
10
People talk as if the Second Amendment was given by God and so cannot be touched by mere humans. But it was not. It was put there as an afterthought by the framers. We do get rid of amendments when they are thought to be ineffective like the eighteenth or damaging to the people. Along came the 21st and got rid of that. Time we have the 28th which should get rid of the 2nd once and for all. End of NRA and end of the story. We can deport the likes of laPierre to wherever he crawled out from.
10
As the gunfolks remind us...
"Guns don't kill people, people do"
Well...
"High school students don't vote US Senators out of office, their parents do"
Grandparents, too...
10
It seems that Marco Rubio and his congressional NRA cohorts are more afraid of losing their NRA teat than they are losing a few children.
Time to vote all Republicans out of office.
10
So many of the shooters are killed before their mental state can be evaluated. As far as I know, the Florida shooter's mental state has yet to be diagnosed.
How can we call this a mental health issue when we don't know the mental health of the shooters? We know they have guns, their mental state is mostly speculative.
Anyone who says this is a mental health issue is just obfuscating. Unless, of course, they are advocating a mental evaluation before purchasing a gun with regular follow up evaluations. I would get behind that one, would Rubio?
5
Donald Trump has told us that he could stand on 5th Avenue in New York and shoot someone, and not lose the support of his base.
This is the perfect moment for him to make good on that claim. Only, let that someone be the National Rifle Association.
Let him say “I will lead the effort to ban military grade weapons for all but the military (a well-regulated militia, in another time). I will see to it that hollow-tipped bullets are banned, that ammunition magazines will be limited to 6 bullets, that silencers for these weapons will be banned, that guns, like automobiles and fisherman, will be licensed and registered, and made to have finger print recognition safety features so that only the registered owner of a gun can use it, that gun purchases cannot be fulfilled through the mails, that gun manufacturers will be liable for the mayhem created by their products, that gun owners will have to carry insurance for same, and if the National Rifle Association doesn’t like any of this, they can go cry on the shoulder of Little Marco. Because I am Donald Trump, and I can fix this.”
I think a lot of the commentators on these pages would cheer him if he did that, and he might get an iota of the respect he craves from his home town.
4
Instead he is recommending that we arm teachers
Talking to elected officials about gun control is a lost cause at this point. People need to vote based on policy and not on personality or cultural alignment. The fact that Rubio would even appear on stage with a representative of the NRA sends a very clear message about who he works for and what beliefs he is aligned with. Banning Assault Rifles seems like, at the very least, a reasonable response to this spate of tragedies, but the fact that no Republican or the NRA can broach that subject, people need to start voting them out of office. There are so many challenges like campaign finance and gerrymandering, but it also comes down to some simple choices. If people in office clearly aren't answering your needs, you need to start to vote differently.
6
In addition to a flat-out ban on assault-type rifles, and ban on gun sales at gun shows - all of our officials should be forced to look upon the faces and bodies of those dead children, not the cute photos of them when they were alive. Make them look at the photos of the dead bodies of those babies that died at Sandy Hook.
We need to restructure campaign finance laws repeal Citizens United, ban donations from corporations and lobbies, established a government fund for campaigns for each party, set aside public broadcasting time for debates and ads. Corporations, NRA, and pharma should have no voice in the election process. The government is ours, and our employees need to start working for the benefit of the citizens of this country.
I don’t want to carry a gun to school so that a select group of people can retain their right to an assault-type weapon. I don’t want to have to pass through a metal detector and have armed cops at the entrances. Our kids are very fragile; anxiety and depression in teens is unlike anything we have ever seen. School should be a haven - not a war zone.
4
What courage these parents and students have to stand here and address this issue barely a week after their loss. A week. In the midst of their grief they have become braver and stronger than any Americans I've ever seen. I really believe their efforts will be a turning point for this country. They are true heroes.
8
I just loved when the Sheriff spoke at the beginning and during his time for questions. He has more common sense than many politicians. Everybody just applauded him. He was my hero of the night! Mr. Rubio showed up and many saw that as a good sign. The only thing that mattered that he said was about arming teachers, he said it is not a good idea. The rest, well we kind of knew what the answers will be.
5
The memory is a powerful tool. Use it in November when you vote. Use it in years to come each time Rubio ,Trump, and the deafening roar from the rest of the GOP is heard, run for office. Not caring about the lives of your future constituents will have lasting impact on your careers. People remember pivotal moments in different phases of their lives. I remember riding around town with my friend in VW Bug, going to pizza parlor, anticipating school dances. These children will grow up, and they will remember . And they will tell others their stories.
4
Their message will endure and their numbers will grow.
Why? because, sadly, if there is a similar incident in the near future, then, wherever it happens, a) there will be an immediate bond between such survivors and the group will increase in number and b) any future incidents will continue to reignite the message with increased fury.
They have real power: Why?
Because there are other 'Rubio's' out there today; squirming at the thought of being challenged by a group of well educated and passionate young people. School communities who are supported by families, friends and a significant percentage of the American (and international) public.
These politicians may have to defend their beliefs and behaviours in public 'Rubio-style'. And so, they will be reflecting more seriously about what action is being taken to protect their own schools and their own reputation.
2
Instead they will just want to close the schools. Why would we want a well educated populace?
US States have the right to ban assault weapons and 4 US States have done so and the courts have upheld their assault weapons ban. So it can be done, no matter what the NRA says. The Supreme Court did not weigh in on those decisions but it did state in another case that the 2nd Amendment does not mean that any type of weapon can be deemed to be used as a means for safety and security reasons, throwing into doubt the use of assault weapons for self protection issues as stated by the NRA. Facts also show that when there was no assault gun ban from 1984-2004 there were 19 incidents with 155 deaths, when there was an assault gun ban nation wide from 1994-2004 that the number of mass shooting declined considerably with 12 incidents and 89 deaths. When the ban was lifted again in 2004 we have had 34 incidents and 302 deaths. The facts speak for themselves. Assault weapons cause a mass increase in deaths. The answer is clear. We need to ban assault weapons again.
4
Fundamental to the case against gun control, is that guns offer protection not only against individuals, but against a tyrannical government. After all it works in the 1770's, why wouldn't it work today. Embedded in the comments from the NRA (and others) is the ability to fight a war against a federal government that moves against their view of their own liberty and freedom.
High sounding words that echo the 1770's to be sure, but underneath it is a basic belief in "might makes right" as opposed to the rule of law. How the rest of us allow them to call themselves "patriots" is hard to believe.
5
No matter what changes get enacted, I wouldn’t place much stock in our current Republican office holders to act in good faith. The Trump’s administration has already been at work trying to lessen gun restrictions and background checks.
With every victory the NRA insists on seeing how much further it can go. They are currently working on legalizing silencers and making gun permits valid across state lines. Florida doesn’t allow local communities to regulate guns in any way (conveniently making the state government a one stop shop for buying politicians).
Any real effort to curb gun violence has to include legitimate academic or public health studies of their effectiveness. The CDC and most universities have people knowledgeable in designing proper studies to inform lawmakers. We’ll undoubtedly need more data and yet more action.
All we know for sure is that measures like those in other advanced countries work astoundingly well by comparison. Maybe America can find a way to dramatically improve gun violence while keeping most of the guns, but I’m very, very skeptical. There’s a reason the NRA doesn’t want government funded studies of gun violence. It’s because they don’t want to know the real answers.
3
Raising the age of purchase from 18 to 21 won't work at all. Look at how poorly this age-based kind of regulation works for alcohol and drugs--kids easily get them just about whenever they want. The products come from older siblings and older friends who will buy for them; from their parents stash; from stores that want the sale regardless of the risk of enforcement action against them. We need a law that prevents elected officials from taking money from the NRA. Only an enormous and well-organized public clamor can achieve this.
3
The Constitution was written by people who understood the world in the context of when and where they lived. The 2nd Amendment was ratified in December 1791. The United States was home to 4 million people. We were fundamentally a farming and gathering society. The state-of-the-art weapon was the US Army Contract Rifle, a muzzle-loading flintlock, nearly 3 feet long, with a rate of fire of 2 – 3 rounds per minute and an effective range of a few hundred yards.
Today, the literalists believe the framers of the Constitution would ascribe the unfettered right of individuals to possess firearms with firepower thousands of times more lethal than was available then. Our forebears could not have conceived of a standing army of nearly 3 million active and reserve soldiers that consumes nearly 5% of the US economy, or a civilian police force of nearly 650,000. What kind of dystopian rationale drives a US Senator to wonder why more people did not shoot back in Sandy Hook, the Colorado mall, the theater in Aurora, Columbine, Virginia State, Las Vegas, or Florida? Our founding fathers, on both sides of the ideological debate must be shaking their heads in disbelief at how our politicians have placed money and ideology in front of good sense and the common good in the development of sensible national gun ownership policy.
5
We’ve been having myriad discussions on these comment sites and elsewhere about how important voting really is, and whether it makes a difference. Soon, these teens will be of voting age (some probably already are) and I think we’ll finally get the answers to our questions.
It is well past time that someone held these legislators morally and ethically accountable for their (in)actions.
Parkland and Stoneman Douglas will never forget. Neither should we.
5
Ms Loesch: the second amendment was never written with the intent of providing an unlimited right for individual ownership of firearms. Alexander Hamilton writing in The Federalist Papers spoke specifically of a well regulated militia that would be employed by the federal government for national defense means. Those militias were to be regulated by the individual states, as this argument was offered up to assuage critics of the Constitution who felt that it provided too much power and would create a standing army. Even the conservative icon Robert Bork believe that this was the intent of the Second Amendment and that was the legal interpretation of it for many years. Chief Justice Warren Burger said that the NRA creation of this individual right, was one of the greatest propaganda coups of the 20th century.
3
It was clear Rubio did not want to say that he would refuse campaign contributions from the NRA, which are based on how likely they would be to oppose any sort of gun control. This was a mistake and an opportunity for someone to say that any corporate contributions to campaigns is wrong. Money used to influence politicians is the problem. It was a missed opportunity to get at the source of why sensible gun control cannot be introduced even though the vast majority of voters are for it.
2
“'First, you have to define what it is. It basically bans 220 specific models of gun,' but would allow for '2,000 other types' of guns that operate the same way but are not classified as assault weapons."
OK, so if the definition is flawed, wouldn't the next step be to come up with a better, more effective definition, Sen. Rubio? Your role isn't to simply sit on the sideline and critique what others propose - it's to develop and adopt solutions for issues that confront our country. To, you know, act.
6
One simple question could have been asked to both panels.
If you agree contend that changing the existing guns laws will require time, exchange of ideas and patience, as many have noted, would you agree to support one immediate change: no gun laws restricting the possession of firearms in government buildings shall be any more restrictive than the laws that apply to all non-government buildings. If the NRA and its supporters in Congress are sincere about treating all law-abiding citizens the same, that would be a good place to start.
5
The NRA can be part of the solution or it can be part of the problem. I've seen many responsible gun owners advocate for training, testing, inspections, insurance, and registration as prerequisites of gun ownership. Not that different from car ownership. I hope we can hear more from gun owning citizens who are against the NRA's extreme agenda and in favor of a more sensible approach.
2
Senator Rubio spoke up last evening in favor of raising the age for someone owning a rifle from 18 to 21, more comprehensive background checks, action on mental health, banning bump stocks, and looking at more ways to stop school shootings and protecting our young people. The students from Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School are already making a difference by speaking up and leading a movement which benefits all of us as a country pursuing sensible gun regulations. These changes need to happen immediately.
1
Shooters have typically not been diagnosed as mentally ill and do not have criminal records, etc. If reported for unusual behavior, they often pass police interviews. They often legally buy guns (passing the background checks), have friends illegally buy guns for them, or steal guns.
Shooters read up on past shooters and develop plans to bypass defenses. If they are stopped somehow from buying a semi-auto rifle, they will buy/acquire pistols (Va Tech) or shotguns (Navy Yard) or any tool you can imagine.
I frankly don't care if we ban a particular flavor of gun (despite the mystical powers attributed to some). It will make no difference.
What we really need are comprehensive funded security programs. Just universal first aid training will save over 20,000 lives annually in the US.
IMHO.
1
How do we address this important and emotional issue in a democracy? I don't know what the polls show, but there probably is a majority of Americans that supports more marginally restrictive gun laws (close the gun show loophole, outlaw bump-stocks and improve mental health and criminal screening). But to begin to really limit the use and proliferation of guns requires Federal universal background checks with carry permits issued only to those that have a demonstrable need (such as carrying large amounts of money or are otherwise engaged in a dangerous occupation). On this latter point, I doubt that a majority of Americans would support it, although I would be interested in seeing the polling.
So how, in a democracy, do we achieve the necessary reduction in the use of guns of all types when a majority disagrees with the restraints and impositions are critical to its success?
One thing is for sure; there is no law that will keep the guns out of the hands of the bad guys and will keep them only in the hands of the good guys. Either law-abiding citizens will end up have no access or much more restricted access to guns or, alternatively, law-abiding citizens can have their guns but the inevitable result is that it would make it more likely that will non law-abiding citizens will end up with the same access.
You mean like in the European nations?
Let's be real. When the NRA yells "Second Amendment" they're not referring to the Founders' Second Amendment. The majority of the Founders who were in the Federalist party voted against putting hunting and personal defense language into the Second Amendment. Without an army the Second Amendment provided a readily armed militia to protect the United States from insurgent armed rebellions or which there were several in the early days of our country. It was not a individual gun owners amendment. Guns that have a plausible civilian use can be legal but just as there is no constitutional right to own and operate a car, until very recently and I believe wrongly, there has been no constitutional right to own guns aside from a civic obligation. Gun owners rights go back to Scalia and not to James Madison who kept such language out of the Second Amendment when it was first adopted. By the way, the phrase "right to bear arms" was a 17th century British term that always referred to a duly organized military formation.
4
Although this town hall was a bit raucous, it was like a real town hall meeting. That gives me hope that this generation will be different and get things done.
4
While I would love to see our government take an interest in mental health issues, I'd like to point out that one of the first services to go when Reagan purged public education of as much federal funding as possible, school psychologists were among the first to go.
This, as well as the reduction in public health services, raises a number of questions in response to NRA's focus on mental health.
Who is going to identify those who need mental health evaluations?
How are we going to force those who most need it to have mental health evaluations?
How will these people be evaluated when most insurance does not cover mental health?
2
It feels good to vent. But it takes a lot more than that to make change.
Every one of those teens needs to register to vote the day they turn 18 and they need to show up, to be there, at the following election.
Young people, you have the power. Use it!
I show up every election day and do my part. And I'm doing it for you, for my children, for the next generation. But in 2016 almost 60% of eligible voters aged 18-29 could not be bothered to get to the polls and do their part. It's time to grow up and take control of your lives. Do it now.
4
Despite the denials from politicians we all know that money has everything to do with their decisions. The vast majority of Americans support sensible gun control. We have the absolute right to alter or abolish and put in place that which works for us. And while we should, of course, vote, our REAL power is in our dollar. General strikes, general boycotts, targeted spending initiatives -supporting only progressive, sustainable businesses. That’s how we can affect change in a corpocracy!
So we can't enact common sense gun safety legislation because it's hard? It wasn't hard to pass a tax bill so complex that it took 500 pages to cram it all in. It wasn't hard to chip away at the Affordable Care Act, which is also complicated. It wasn't hard to pass seatbelt and airbag legislation to make cars more safe, and enact drunk-driving laws and tests for new drivers to get a license. It wasn't hard to make OTC medicine containers tamper-proof and child-proof.
On the other hand, it was hard to take the tobacco lobby to task and unmask their role in one of the centuries' most pervasive attack on the public health. But it happened. And it was hard to get big polluters from dumping chemicals so toxic that rivers were on fire. But it happened.
Licenses, background checks, no bump stocks, AR bans with fines for those who don't comply and rewards for those who do, training anyone who wants to buy a gun and a three day waiting period before the gun can be delivered to its owner, public health research on the dangers of unlimited access to guns, and on and on.
I don't think the founding fathers gave anyone the legal right to own an AR. At the time they were thinking about muskets and pistols. But the right to bear arms has become a license to kill.
I also don't think anyone is going to take away anyone's guns unless they have them illegally. But first we need laws written and enforcement policies in place.
Of course it's hard, but it's not impossible.
4
Can anyone ever explain to me the limits of the 2nd Amendment? I know the limits of the 1st Amendment, about what is protected speech and what is not. However, no one can explain the limits of the 2nd Amendment.
2
We talk about the need for schools to be hardened because they are soft targets but we forget that anyplace there is a crowd is a soft target. Will we harden them all? No, not possible - it's all about guns, not targets.
133
Agreed. As threats have increased this week:
https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2018/02/22/587832544/threats-aga...
Exactly. Suppose (and we wish) that suddenly all schools could magically be shielded from gun violence. No need then for gun advocates to continue to make these ludicrous proposals that teachers become trained armed guards instead of educators... With no further need to be concerned about the occupants of the school facilities, these great thinkers could move on to propose military defense training for: theater ushers, bartenders, restaurant managers, subway and train conductors, bus drivers, mall cops, librarians, store cashiers, postal workers, factory supervisors, HR managers, election workers... the list is endless because it would include everywhere that we soft targets want or have to gather.
Maybe so but with more than 400 million guns out there - there's very little that we can do about it. I hope that the day comes soon when the second amendment is repealed but even if that happened I doubt that it would stop the crazies. The Columbine guys had pipe bombs (which luckily didn't work) and most terrorists seem to prefer IEDs over guns... if there's a will there will always be a way that can not be prevented.
1
If the founding fathers could take back two words in the second amendment, they would be, regulated and infringed. Initially the Constitution did not provide for a standing army, it provided for a Navy to protect our shore but the country was to be protected by a citizen army or regulated militia, just like Switzerland. The President was to be the Commander in Chief of the citizen army in a time of crisis. Of course this has evolved into the gargantuan military industrial complex which defines our country from domestic spending to foreign policy.
The word infringed speaks for itself and when it is fortified by "shall not be infringed" it is an obstacle that can not be overcome without repealing or rewriting the amendment.
1
"First, you have to define what it is. It basically bans 220 specific models of gun." Please, a basic step is to ban any firearm that fires a specific cartridge: the 5.56 mm and other military intermediate-length cartridges. That simplifies things considerably. Mr. Rubio should learn how to think rather than depending on his NRA talking points. If federal law can effectively limit the availability of full-automatic firearms, it can do the same for weapons that fire military assault rifle ammunition.
4
Nothing heals like the light of day. Through the eyes of our children, and through their sacrifice, we now have the light shed upon the true consequence of pay to play influence in our politics. If our representatives in congress take the responsibilities of public service as literally as they define the "well regulated militia" amendment they may enjoy something other than a 10% approval rating. Now that the kids know that their representatives are proxies for profiteers rather than guardians of our ideals we may see a Vietnam era commitment to getting democracy to work again through young people getting involved in local politics and voter registration drives. Should we see that kind of civic engagement, those innocent victims would not have died in vain.
5
I watched the CCN town meeting last night and half the time I had trouble seeing the TV with tears in my eyes, the other half of the time I wanted to put my foot through the TV.
6
Politicians opposing gun control are advocating many alternative solutions to mitigate the risk of future mass murders by guns in the US. Any mitigation strategy should be designed with a specific objective in mind.
The only responsible gun violence objective is for US gun deaths to be reduced to a level comparable to other advanced western countries which would require a 95% reduction. Such a mitigation strategy, in the absence of meaningful gun control, would come with a potentially significant cost. Who should pay for it?
When determining who pays, gun ownership should be viewed the same as car ownership. Car owners are required to pay annual registration fees for the right to own and use a car, plus additional taxes proportional to usage (gas tax), plus pay for insurance to compensate those who are damaged by the use of that car. Gun ownership should carry the same financial obligations as car ownership with an annual registration fee per gun, a usage fee for ammunition, and insurance for anyone damaged in any way with the gun owner's guns.
Annual gun registration fees should be a sliding scale proportional to lethality, for example $10-100 for a revolver or a bolt action rifle but $1000 for an AR-15. This likely would discourage many younger or higher risk buyers from acquiring the most lethal weapons available.
If we can't limit gun ownership in the US, responsibility demands that gun owners pay for the true cost to mitigate gun violence by other means.
2
I have heard many proposals for resolving this gun problem. One thing I have not heard from anyone is three words: Campaign finance reform. Our government needs to be returned to the control of the people. It cannot be with the present system which practically mandates corruption.
Neither the NRA nor the big corporations and special interests are at fault----both are market sector organizations whose goals are profit for shareholders. That is what they do. The problems start when these market objectives are allowed to mix with politics. When no one can run without the money provided by the NRA, they will do the bidding of the NRA though they are sworn to serve the people. The NRA nor any corporation are sworn to serve the people but to serve their own interests---We need term limits, a reversal of Citizens United, and public financing of political campaigns--period. Only way citizens can take back their own government. It is in the interests of the NRA to set Republicans against Democrats and vice versa. There is no easy way back to integrity of the process but we can do it.
2
There’s one sure way to root out guns in America: It’s by outbidding the NRA. Money talks louder than anything in this country. Every one of those senators and congressmen can be bought if the price is right. If someone’s raising money to buy these guys out, I’m in.
1
The these young adults, and they are truly adults, need everyone's support in their quest to enact change in this country. The attacks have begun and millions of dollars are being funneled into campaigns in an attempt to squash this spontaneous movement. Let's not let them down.
4
Florida has more than one million people licensed to carry concealed weapons and some of the least restrictive gun regulations in the country. It didn't prevent the violence. More guns clearly is not the answer.
Trained police officers have made mistakes with guns, killing innocent people. In war, our highly trained military still suffers significant "friendly fire" casualties. Allowing teachers with minimal weapons training to carry guns in schools in not the answer.
While we need a variety of responses, from increased school security to anti-bullying training, better background checks, and improvements to our mental health system, we also need to reduce the number of guns on our streets, particularly AR-15s and similar assault-style weapons. We should also limit the size of the magazines for all guns. We need a multi-faceted approach. Will it end all gun violence? No, but it will certainly improve upon our current situation.
1
Brave and eloquent, our youths are questioning their elders’ decisions that directly impact their lives. How have NRA contributions affected policy? Why do they need worry that every day they enter school could be their last?
Any security expert, physical or cyber, will tell you, that the best defense is multiple layers of defense. Yet the NRA and selected officials keep deferring to simplistic "solutions" like better mental health screening or age restrictions. (The suggestion of arming teachers had an anguished father ask, so we can have shootouts in the hallway?)
When planes were a weapon of choice, we instilled x-ray machines for luggage, metal detectors for passengers, locks on cockpit doors, no fly lists, had security personnel interview embarking passengers and placed air marshals on some flights. When it became trucks, car rental companies were alerted to be more suspicious, to pay particular attention to those paying in cash and cities instilled barriers in pedestrian areas.
The NRA and officials ignore the most obvious layer of defense - reduce the firepower used in attacks. Their defensive response that we’d have to define what an assault weapon is begets an obvious response: any weapon whose sole objective is to kill the maximum number of individuals in the shortest period of time or to create the maximum damage in those who survive. What other purpose are they planning to use assault weapons for – rabbit hunting, domestic abuse or armed insurrection?
4
Guns are like drugs.. There are categories of drugs and guns that are both useful and recreational. And there is a category of both drugs and guns which is lethal and driven by profit. We should keep safe drugs legal and keep safe guns legal. That means keeping hunting guns for sport or hobby and hand guns for protection as legal firearms. Then, remove or severely limit any gun that doesn't meet that criteria. Like drugs, not all guns are created equal.
2
“It wouldn’t have prevented the attack, but it would have made it less lethal,” Mr. Rubio said.
And if the shooter didn't have access to an assault rifle, it would have made it even less lethal. And if the shooter didn't have access to any gun at all, we wouldn't need to have this conversation about gun access vs our kids' lives. Look to Connecticut and Australia as prime examples: the data is clear that restricting access to guns is the path towards safer schools, malls, churches,...
Cars are inherently unsafe, but we have reasonable laws so that a driver is a safe driver. We all agree and the data show that these laws have greatly reduced the traffic death rate. These laws include practical and written tests for licensure, speed limit laws, types of cars, safety devices like seat belts and air bags, and many general laws of the road, as well as policing to ensure drivers follow the laws. Gun owners should similarly prove their ability to be safe with a firearm: mental health check, written and practical exam for licensure, and background checks. Types of guns that we know are used for killing people should be banned, just like drag racing cars are banned from the roads.
The first amendment allows us freedom of speech, but there are reasonable restrictions to protect the health and welfare of others. The 2nd amendment allows for us to own a gun: this epidemic requires that we implement reasonable restrictions for the same reason.
4
If Congress won't act, can we get the requisite number of states to call for a convention to amend the Constitution, specifically to limit (or even remove) the scope of the 2nd Amendment's so-called "right to bear arms" clause?
4
I hope that last night, everyone saw Marco Rubio for the two-faced sycophant he really is. He was like a drop of water on a hot griddle when pressed to actually answer "yes" or "no" to a question about his continuing to accept contributions from the NRA. He also made big talk about pursuing stricter background checks and age restrictions, but watch what happens when he's back under the cover that only Washington provides.
I was also disappointed in the discussion with NRA representative, Dana Loesch. Too many time wasting, unfocused rambling or easily parried softball questions that allowed her to fall back on canned responses that did nothing to advance the dialogue.
Better than nothing but it could have been so much more.
2
Hard decisions must be made to protect students. The parents must demand certain protections from the schools because the government clearly will not answer the call for protection from random shooters.
All campuses must be closed continually from opening bell to closing bell. There will only be approved entries by outsiders. Uniforms should become universally required to easily identify students. Parking lots must be part of the closed campus. Widespread use of camera surveillance monitored by the school should become universally applied.
Vote Democratic at every election until the GOP is squashed from existence.
3
Politicians care only about one thing: re-election. If voters would actually respond on this issue, something might be done. But if a typical representative or senator simply gets a contract for a plant in their state or district to build the whatever subassembly for the next defense system the military doesn't want, then all this debate about gun violence will suddenly recede into the background.
1
A great deal of the NRA's power, in addition to their financial contributions, is that they're well organized and represent a small, but very vocal, well-connected minority who know how to get out and lobby. In order to combat them, those who want more gun control need to do the same. Supporters of gun control need to be just as vocal and let politicians know that our voices will not be silenced.
1
The thing that separates the class of weapons known as assault rifles from a traditional hunting rifle is the easy insertion of a large capacity magazine holding dozens of cartridges. No hunting rifle needs a clip of more than 3-4 rounds, and most don't have them. Banning clips over 6-10 rounds will save lives. Perhaps that's a more achievable goal.
2
“First, you have to define what it is. It basically bans 220 specific models of gun,” Mr. Rubio said, prompting applause from the audience. He continued, saying that the bill also allows for “2,000 other types” of guns that operate the same way but are not classified as assault weapons.
On its face, this is a true statement, but do not let the perfect be the enemy of the good. I am reminded of the joke "what do you call a 1000 lawyers at the bottom of the ocean?" Answer: a good start. It is true that there are many semiautomatic rifles that have the same firing mechanism as an "assault weapon," but would not be one of the 220 models of guns that would be classified as "assault weapons." But if we now cannot buy 220 guns classified as assault weapons, that is a good start.
Also, we need to eliminate an aesthetic. We need to eliminate the civilian purchase of guns that look a certain way that appeal to a certain individual. While they may argue differently, people do not buy assault style weapons because of their fitness for a particular purpose, people buy assault style weapons because the weapons look cool and the people think they look cool firing them. That is all there really is to it, regardless of what they might say to the contrary. We need to take away that appeal.
There is one thing that one can be sure of; As soon as a politician says that it's not about the money, then we know it is, most certainly, all about the money. Mr Rubio, like so many others, is owned by the NRA. We have heard that there is no one measure or law that will solve the mass shootings issue in this country. That may be true, but it is also true that there is one measure that cannot be excluded if we are to be successful, the banning of assault weapons like the AR15.
Mr Trump wants to arm teachers with concealed, carried weapons. Let's have a test ( via VR or with rubber bullets). Let Mr Trump's experts select the best concealable weapon and match him, or an NRA owned member of congress playing the part of the armed teacher, against a helmeted, body armored shooter who has an AR15, plenty of ammo, and large capacity magazines. Any doubts as to the outcome?
1
In an op-ed piece on Feb 20, Dr. Amy Barnhorst, a psychiatrist, pointed out that most mass killers are not mentally ill. That is, they are not hearing voices or commands to kill; they are in touch with reality. That is true of Nikolaus Cruz, who shot the 17 young people at Stoneman high school. He has confessed to the killings and has expressed grief.
Although young men like Mr. Cruz are not out of touch with reality, they suffer from depression, inability to control their anger (not so much different in kind than Rob Porter), inadequate parenting, and bad luck. They would benefit greatly from counseling, talk therapy, and realistic goal setting as a good social worker could provide.
As Dr. Barnhorst suggests, we need to expand community psychiatric and guidance centers, staff them with experienced professionals, and pay them adequately.
We also need to educate our politicians about disturbed young men who are not mentally ill.
3
Just think of the history of our country and the many issues that seemed impossible to resolve; the right of women to vote, prohibition, the domination of Big Tobacco, the civil rights movement , the women's movement , gay marriage and so much more. The NRA will fall. It won't happen overnight but the handwriting is on the wall and it will happen. They are an out of control organization and we can no longer tolerate them as they are are unable to recognize that our children must be protected and kept safe.
2
Vote out Republicans and the organization will die. Only 4 Dems have an A rating.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/politics/wp/2018/02/15/52-senators-h...
You forget the big one: Slavery, it lasted centuries.
Why does the Second Amendment "trump" our rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness? Not my original thought I heard it from one of the participants.
6
The NRA continues to try to distract attention from our real public health problems by saying that school shootings indicate the need for more mental health related restrictions on gun ownership. This is a statement not supported by the facts and a distraction from what the NRA does not want us to think about: namely that mental illness does NOT adequately predict gun violence and the real problem is the ready availability of guns in a (supposedly) civilized society. The fact of the matter is there is NO constitutional right to own guns, and violence with guns is directly predicted by how AVAILABLE guns are.
4
The first bill Trump signed was NRA legislation to make it easier for the mentally ill to buy guns and Rubio supported the legislation just as he voted for the gunshow and Internet purchase exemptions for the benefit of criminals, spousal abusers and the mentally ill.
Rubio lied about his own record just as the polished NRA public relations Loesch lied about the real record of the NRA.
The Trump era is the most debased of all led by a Liar In Chief. Three million dead by gunshot since the assassinations of Martin Luther King and RFK.
Rubio is a weasle.
8
I do not agree with many of Rubio's positions and assessments regarding gun control but I do give him credit for having the courage to join the debate and face his constituents.
1
He gets paid to face his constituents, that's not courage. The first thing your supposed to do is show up for work.
I doubt Rubio is worried. Dems will complain about this for another week or so then move on to the next thing, without having accomplished anything.
The left must take responsibility for their failures to commit to this issue until it's resolution.
1
Hey everyone! Look over there! It's the Democrats!
Rubio misspoke. The NRA hasn't "bought into his agenda". They have bought his agenda.
7
The last paragraph offers the most effective approach.
Trying to outlaw a certain type of weapon is an endless loop.
The specs can never cover every option.
But the specifics of high capacity clips and magazines is very easy to specify.
High capacity weapons, whether a rifle or a handgun are only designed to shoot and kill a lot of humans.
There is no other purpose.
So pass legislation that limits the capacity to less than 10 shots.
We will never be able to identify and stop every person who wants to kill other humans.
But we can make it much less deadly.
That is a good starting point in which both sides should be able to agree.
Or at least shamed into.
3
Not only that but hunters rarely get a second shot. This is military.
The Second Amendment was the result of the insecure public order of colonial America, later maybe justified by the lawlessness beyond the Frontier of the Far West. In the 21st century, though, America is the cornerstone of Western democracy and few countries have stricter than US law enforcement. So why not throw this obsolete part of the Constitution overboard rather than being the slave of that part that is no longer holds true.- In today's Old World (Britain or Germany) the likelihood to get killed in a shootout is statistically up to 30 times less than in the US, because of the practically total absence of guns and the sole right of law enforcement agencies to use any sort force in a nation of law .- America truly taught us about democracy, let us implore them now to stop the butchery among ordinary civilians and let go of guns altogether.
4
I have lived long enough to see our nation lose ground with public safety and guns. The individual's "right to keep and bear arms" trumps the public good each and every time. As the technology streaks ahead with lighter, automatic, multi-round guns, the NRA's lust for the latest rears its ugly head. Boom! There goes the community's right to set boundaries.
1
Would love to see facial expressions of Paul Ryan & Mitch McConnell when they are phoned w news that their childrens/grandchildrens schools are being assaulted by crazy gunman. Don't want anyone to die. Hoping a false alarm to be enough to scare them into passing effective gun laws.
When the elite schools (that Republican politicians' kids attend) are shot up by a crazy person w an automatic weapon, then we will see sensible gun restrictions pass into laws.
2
I just saw a segment with Dana Loesch speaking at a conservative conference and she was dripping with contempt. She said the media loves crying white mothers because they bring high ratings. But she then said where is the coverage of the crying mothers in Chicago, as if nobody cares about them and somehow, by even mentioning them, she and the NRA somehow do care. How audacious to even imply that, since it is GUNS that are killing children in Chicago, guns that the NRA is all in favor of. This is the same organization that doesn't want waiting periods for guns, guns for people with mental illness, guns for wife beaters, guns sold at gun shows with absolutely no background checks and now even a reciprocal rules for concealed weapons that people who can get a gun with just the blink of an eye will be able to carry into Chicago or NYC, places with far stronger gun control laws. She has the nerve to criticize the media and the grieving mothers. By the way, if guns are so great, why are they not allowed at the NRA and Republican conventions. Answer that Dana.
3
The weapon mentioned in the 2nd amendment was a muzzle loader of the day...single shot...let this be the only weapon sold,the founders had no way of knowing what they were unleashing on the future.
6
This fiasco only proves that we will never be able to work together as a country to solve real problems. The left simply refuses to respect the opinions of others, resulting to personal attacks and worse. Acting like spoiled children instead of mature adults will not be very productive in saving innocent children's lives.
1
“Forum” indeed. Why would any Republican appear at such a left wing rally? Call it what it is. Stay home and enjoy a drink.
1
"Students who are old enough to serve in the military should be allowed to own firearms, she said."
Then we should also probably make it legal for them to buy a beer.
2
finally and irrevocably, the truth is out--big-money runs this country--and the so-called civil servants are just their puppets.
1
At long last have you no shame Senator? and so began the decline of McCarthyism and hopefully, with these articulate and angered students and parents, so will begin the decline of the current Republican Conservatism which has weakened the United States for more than a decade. The hypocrisy and lies of the Republicans have become so blatant that a tipping point has finally been reached. 'Lying Ted' stuck for a reason - because he lied so often (as so many Republicans have done) that he couldn't shake it off. 'Little Rubio' stuck because he was so small-minded and not up to the task of being president that he couldn't shake it off. Trump in the end will be remembered as the greatest buffoon of all time - and should hold worst presidency honors for centuries. Keep up the pressure students and parents - you will save this nation at long last.
3
The first question to ask the "jeerers" is, "do you think we should repeal the second amendment". When they answer "yes", then the conversation is over. That is the fundamental purpose of the NRA - to defend the constitution. How can these "lecturers" be given any credence? They have no credible position. Do you really believe that 150,000,000 Americans want their guns taken away? This is pure emotion and reveals the foolishness of the argument. The NRA doesn't have to "defend" itself from anything. The NRA critics need to "defend" themselves from promoting anarchy.
Smokescreen. Don't need to repeal the second to limit ammo capacity.
It seems very clear at the moment that the NRA has a stranglehold on American politics. Heaven forbid that they become infiltrated by anarchists. Or has it already happened ...?
Republicans care more about NRA money than children's lives, sad but true. But the parents of the dead kids will have the Republican's prayers...so I guess that's something.
Bob's right about the NRA money, it doesn't talk it swears.
2
I am at the point of absolute frustration and rage like the two fathers, Mr. Pollack and Mr. Guttenberg who lost their kids at Stoneham Douglas in Oarkland, Florida. Forget about political correctness. It's way past time to be just blunt. Would Marco Rubio still accept money from the NRA or explain away the 2000 guns banned... if his two little children were victims of a senseless massacre. For that matter, what would be Paul Ryan, Rick Scott and NRA's LaPierre reaction be? And Trump? Would he still be talking about mental illness at Brandon's school? I don't wish this horror on any parents. But when I see the likes of Rubio, LaPierre sanctimoniously explaining away such senseless massacres with mental illness, existing laws which are not followed nor enforced, my reaction is are these guys humane? They cry crocodile tears, pray and pray but they don't feel the slightest tinge of guilt and pain of these parents who have lost their child forever. I am too enraged. But Rubio, just think about your own babies when you unashamedly insist on taking money from the NRA. You guys should try stepping into the shoes of these parents to get a real education about guns, not the 2nd amendment which is about militia. See any militia around ? But we sure have the assault weapons to counter the militia! The kids at Stoneham, Columbine, Virginia Tech and the babies at Sandy Hook? What did they do to die in such a cruel way leaving their parents in eternal agony?
2
This is what you get when you vote Republican. Why don't you make the connection?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/politics/wp/2018/02/15/52-senators-h...
Rubio - "...the bill also allows for “2,000 other types” of guns that operate the same way but are not classified as assault weapons."
He testifies to his own ineptness....as if LAWMAKERS can't change that.
Bye Bye Rubio!
I fully agree that this is a mental health issue.
If you can interact with your fellow man only on the premise that you need the ability to take life at will, you have a mental disorder.
1
Rick Scott did not show up because his administration offered $162,000 in state tax breaks to bring to South Florida the manufacturer of the Kalashnikov AK-47 assault rifle, even though the U.S. had imposed sanctions against Russian-made military assault weapons.
The next politician that accepts big money from the NRA, cashes the check and then turns on them, will be the first. He/she will also be an American Hero.
There's such an easy way to take care of this problem, since people like Rubio et al have proven to be so intractable on the subject of protecting us from crazy people with guns: the ballot box. Even a more moderate Republican could and should challenge someone like Rubio.
Some day very soon, all of these kids will be able to vote. Maybe we'll have to wait until then.
131
We will have to wait until then....but that's not too long. Maybe only another 100 school shootings.
1
rubio has accepted over 1 mil in NRA contributions. He has been compromised.
1
Hopefully, they will stay engaged and dump him in 2020.
1
Rubio came off as somewhat open to changing his mind. Dana Loesch managed to appear normal and semi- reasonable for the most part, although her contempt appeared when the grieving mother of a teacher asked about a "well regulated militia" and assault weapons. Dana's strategy was to talk only about red flagging mental health problems and steering the discussion AWAY from guns. Dana clearly believes that Moses handed the Second Amendment to the NRA when he came down with the "other" commandments. The NRA feels that they - and only they - own the Second Amendment. Only the NRA is permitted to interpret the Second Amendment, unlike the other amendments. No one else in our country is even allowed to talk about the Second Amendment, because we do not understand how sacred it is.
I don't have hope for Dana's ability to learn and change, but I do have hope for Rubio. Why do you have the NRA confused with the Second Amendment, Senator Rubio?
6
The people of the United states own the Second Amendment. Their support is why the NRA wins arguments even thought larger organizations representing the Hard Left spend many times as much.
Look at the top spenders in lobbying. You won't even see the NRA on the lists I googled.
It all comes down to campaign finance laws. As long as the right is owned by the NRA and their generous donations, there will not be any meaningful change. We don't live in a democracy; we live in a plutocracy. Money rules and your vote is just an adjunct a system that is guarded by wealthy gatekeepers.
7
In the past, the right to smoke outweighed people's right to breathe in public. Even in an airplane, where safety and breathing were both impeded by the presence of lit cigarettes, the public had to accept the rights of those who wanted to smoke at the expense of the health and safety of the majority. Finally, this attitude was transformed into an attitude that smoking in public was generally forbidden. Will we get to this stage soon with guns? Why is the health and safety of the public secondary to the whims of gun owners?
14
Avoiding even the appearance of impropriety is the fundamental ethical obligation of the legal profession. But Marco Rubio is a politician first and a lawyer second. Accepting NRA money is the essence of impropriety and politicians have no ethics that conflict with them winning primary and general elections. As long as no member of Mr. Rubio's family is in any school shooters range he does not care.
8
I can't fathom why no one is stating the obvious: Rubio works FOR Floridians, not for himself. He is THEIR representative and their collective wants and needs should carry over the voice of a single wealthy entity such as the NRA. The NRA is also a constituent but their voice should be no louder than anyone else's no matter who they try to buy off.
8
Mass shootings in the US have reached epidemic proportions, and up until now the NRA and GOP have gotten their way when it comes to gun rights advocacy. It would make sense to change strategy at this point, and instead of extending gun rights by arming teachers, allowing the open-carry of firearms in public places, etc., and instead put in place tighter laws with more restrictions. It certainly couldn't hurt, not the way the NRA and the GOP politicians it owns have hurt us.
2
Thank you CNN! We need more of these, let's talk more with each other.
6
Dear FL (and all other states),
You current legislators have no intention of doing anything to change this. You're options are to Vote Them Out! I pray there will be a point where there will be enough backlash and as unthinkable as this is - enough families impacted by senseless gun violence that there will be enough votes to do just that. Tip the scales to sanity. I especially hope these students once they are old enough to vote will register, continue to be active and take a different stand than their parents and forebears have. Vote for a new generation of law makers that are brave enough to stand up to big money NRA and make change. Do this FL. Lead the way - show the rest of the country this can be done. Do it for these 17 and the others that have gone through such tragedy in the past.
13
Just like Trump, and the rest of Democrat/Republican owned NRA politicians, the problems is not guns, but misuse by people. Tell that to the thousands of victims who have died at the hands of a mass shooter or in say to day crime violence. There are well over 300 million guns in the US.
We have been told the "war on terror" is off our shores; not it isn't. "Terror" is now in our schools, churches, shopping mall, and theaters.
And, now we have a new "war on terror", because it has come to Main Street, USA, thanks to the GOP, the NRA, the gun manufacturer lobby who pour millions into buying politicians of both political parties.
So, what do you expect from Rubio? Praise the NRA, and the 2nd Amendment, or face not getting re-elected by being ostracized by the NRA.
Finally, the US doe snot need to worry about attacks from off shore terrorist, when you have ticking time bombs everywhere across the country, ready to shoot up a school, a mall, a theater, a police officer, a bank, a food court, a restaurant, a transit station, etc. With over 300 million guns in this country, the odds are very good to either get shot or witness a shooting.
10
No. First it is a Republican not a Democratic problem. Second the problem is high capacity weapons which are for military use. There is no proper use of these in civilian life.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/politics/wp/2018/02/15/52-senators-h...
We came together - republicans, democrats, the NRA - to pass The National Firearms Act in the 1930s in response to the carnage caused by machine guns after the first world war. After the Vietnam war, assault weapons were introduced and the resultant carnage is ongoing. An outright ban on assault weapons is probably not feasible but it is time to come together again and severely restrict assault weapon sales just as machine gun sales are severely restricted. The federal government should then have a program to buy back assault weapons to get as many off the streets as possible.
8
It is appalling how, despite the deaths of so many innocent people in these mass murders, a substantial number of politicians choose to remain steadfast in their support of the gun lobby. How is upholding a perverted interpretation of the second amendment in the US Constitution more important than protecting the lives of people by making an effort to compromise and implement laws and measures to curtail what is becoming a social health epidemic?
The answer to the gun problem is not to put guns in the hands of more people. Guns have no place in our schools and public places. The answer is for our political leaders to stop kowtowing to the gun lobby. They must begin listening in earnest to the concerns of their constituents who have been victimised by gun violence and actually work on tackling this problem.
6
In 1994, an assault weapons ban was signed into law for 10 years. I don't remember such a big hullabaloo about it. No outraged citizens, etc. It was almost a common sense approach to dealing with the rising problems these police killing weapons were causing, even though the law was quite mild. During George H.W. Bush, there was the 1989 'sporting purposes test' used on semi automatic rifles. Such weapons were not allowed to be imported, even though the military features had been modified. Only a small portion of the citizens are doing the killing, but we are all effected and at threat. There is no use of these weapons for anything but killing, why kid ourselves? Why not at least try another short term ban on new purchases of these weapons of mass destruction. We've done it before and it can be done again in an effort to bring sanity to the conversation. If we look deeper, usually money is the driver against regulations on gun sales. It seems that the majority of sportsman and NRA members agree to regulations on semi and automatic rifles. This is who should speak for the NRA--it's members. I guess they don't get to vote on policy. (?) Marco Rubio is lacking courage to do the right thing, both in this issue and climate change. He does not stand up and speak out, he simply goes along with the rich and powerful who own him.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Assault_Weapons_Ban
14
We are the only industrialized country in the world that puts up with gun laws that protect no one and allow anyone to have as many guns as they wish. The background check system is broken, mentally ill people are not the problem. If people couldn't get guns because they were not available at all, fewer would be hurt.
I don't think Mr. Rubio has heard the last from these students or their families.
If one is in the pocket of the NRA when you face a crowd of angry voters, you get to have a Dana Loesch along to help defend your position - embarrassing !
My heart breaks for the students and their families for the loss of their children.
My congratulations go to the students who are standing up, and letting their representatives at the local, state and national level that this is not going to stand. Raise your voices but don't forget that you, students, will be 18 soon enough and your votes count! Make sure that you and your peers are at the polls voting for those candidates who represent what you know, first hand, is right.
12
So let me get the NRA's marketing strategy right:
Every American deserves the right to buy a gun so let's make that as easy as possible. Big increase in profits result for gun manufacturers and retailers .
Every American, by right, should get any gun they want, so let's offer all types, including 2,000+ assault rifles. Another jump in profits.
When those guns are used in violent crimes, those who have no guns will buy one or more for protection, as statistics show. Exponentially huge increase in profits, brought on usually by just one gun! Wow. Now that's sales leverage.
And how much did the NRA donate to politicians supporting this "agenda" dressed up as an American right? Big, big bucks. Money well spent to keep sales in place.
And then, how much did the NRA donate or lobby to support mental health? Zero? Doing so doesn't mesh well with the marketing and it admits that their sales strategy does have a few PR problems.
Maybe the argument needs visuals, just like we get from other war torn countries far away where women and children, and good teachers, nurses, doctors, and religious workers are gunned down or blown to bits. Because any person who uses a military weapon on civilians has established clearly---"this is a war and I'm waging it on you."
6
I had to remind CNN in a tweet that mental illness is not the big contributor to crime. This narrative continues to circulate, unchecked and it's WRONG. 7.5% of crime is attributed to mental illness and mentally ill people are more likely to become victims, not perpetrators, of crimes. Many are shot by the police; many wind up in jail, thanks to our broken mental health system.
I'm grateful Don Lemon later made that point, but this belief has to change. It's toxic and harms the mentally ill in so many ways.
http://www.apa.org/news/press/releases/2014/04/mental-illness-crime.aspx
22
I'm so glad you were there to remind Mr Lemon about that stat. Surely you'll be getting a promotion based on your efforts!
Aww, yet as thin skinned as an onion.
1
"The spokeswoman for the N.R.A., Dana Loesch, offering the group’s first public comments after a shooting last week at a Florida high school, strongly defended the gun advocacy group’s positions in front of students and teachers from Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School." Watch the ad, see what and how she represents, it's only a minute, a hate speech minute. Watch "NRA Ad" on YouTube
https://youtu.be/PrnIVVWtAag
19
"Little" Marco indeed.
24
Compared to Rick Scott, he looks like a hero for standing there and taking it. Obama was right about the alt -right hiding behind their guns and bibles.
At least he had the guts to attend. 90% of all other 'bought' GOP legislators will not show up, and we all saw why. Florida's governor does not want to get spat on.
They can run and hide behind the nut case, Wayne LaPierre, but they ca't hide from the ballot box.
What a stupid way to run a railroad: add more guns to the mix.
34
Guts? Are you kidding me? Rubio was there to be a good soldier for his masters at NRA. His only motivation was to sway the room.
No, he gets no credit for guts.
This was the first time - since I can't remember when - that Rubio has scheduled/attended a Town Hall meeting since 2017. the worst part is that he won't be up for re-election until 2023.
Our current focus is to ensure that Rick Scott (who was invited, but did not attend last night) does not replace Bill Nelson in November.
These "senators," "politicians," "leaders," are so deep in the NRA pockets, they breathe bullets. More than disgusting.
The Parkland kids demonstrate true bravery in an ice cold world.
42
@TIMSORED: 0nce again we see pusillanimous reluctance to give 1's real name on the part of morally preening liberal elitists, eager to point the finger at middle America, at public servants who dare to disagree with them. Have never owned a gun, never hunted and despise those who do, but am "tout a fait d'accord" with those who support NRA, its gun safety program, and support thesis that armed teachers, after being qualified with a handgun, r a necessary component of education today. You salute the "bravery of the Parkland kids,"yet how many of them who r now waxing indignant at Sen. RUBIO, whom I respect and support, reached out to the killer before he committed the irremediable?Cruelty to innocent animals is an indicator of a sick mind. He obviously needed help. How many students at that posh h.s.who knew Cruz was sick, actually communicated with him, tried to convince him not to feel so alienated are now grabbing the spotlight? CNN's spectacle last night was intended, not to enlighten, not to seek solutions, not to have an honest discussion about the tragedy, but to only mock NRA, indirectly Trump, and to"chahuter"the Florida senator. 1 wonders how many of the grandstanders last night, also made fun of Cruz, ridiculed him rather than try to help him? Ms. Loesch was also unfairly mocked for her defense of grass roots support for NRA.Event was highly political.
Little Rubio, getting smaller day by day...
16
Every Senator, Congressperson, Governor and State legislator who refuses to ban these M16 clone guns is a terrorist.
Make it a meme!
36
Why do we need automatic AR 15 assault weapons for hunting
We should also limit the size of clips. Large clips mean more people can be killed.
We should not sell guns to anybody below 21 years of age.
We should have 1 800 number to call and coordinated response for a suspicious person
I believe this is middle of the road suggestion to limit the carnage in schools.
If NRA thinks that it can keep the status quo, it is dreaming.
Note to Senator Rubio: You can support the Second Amendment and still not take dirty money from the NRA.
26
What drives ME bonkers are statements from politicians pandering to uninformed voters, like the following:
"Another student, whose brother died in the shooting, bluntly said to Mr. Deutch that 'my friends and I are worried that we are going to be murdered in our classrooms.' He asked what Mr. Deutch was going to do about it.
'As a starter,' the congressman said, 'I’m going to introduce legislation to make sure that assault weapons are illegal in every part of this country.'
The audience burst into applause."
He might as well have promised that he was going to levitate and "wish" all the "bad" guns away.
First of all, and knee-jerk NRA bashers pay attention here, the gun used wasn't an "assault rifle," it was a semi-automatic sporting rifle. It wasn't a "weapon of war," it wasn't selective fire, it was functionally identical to 2000 other models, just as Mr. Rubio and the NRA lady you love to hate stated, most of which fire far more powerful cartridges. Ironically, if legislation were passed outlawing AR-15's, you would think you had accomplished something.
So, Mr. Deutch is going to ban every semi-auto in existence? Do you think that's going to happen, or could Mr. Deutch just been posturing to his liberal base?
Guns save far more lives than they take. A _minimum_ of 200 people per day are saved by the mere presence or use of a firearm. Try thinking critically, for once, and PLEASE, if you don't know about the utility of a firearm, keep your ignorance to yourself?
1
Stop splitting hairs about the AR-15. It's a weapon modified from a military grade weapon. It's designed for killing people--lots of people at a time. Not for hunting, not for target practice, not for "fun." You can call it a "sporting rifle" all you like, but you're being disingenous. A bolt action rifle is a sporting gun. A pump shotgun with single shell reload is a sporting gun. Certainly they can be used to kill people, just as an AR-15 (or any one of those other 2000 models) can be used to kill deer. But while the bolt action does a great job of shooting a deer, it can't kill a roomful of people in under a minute. Stop pretending you don't know what we're talking about here.
1
Please show me the data that shows 200 people a day are saved by the presence of firearms. My guess is it's directly from the NRA themselves.
1
Quit trying to "market" military weapons as "sports" weapons to us. You're not fooling anyone.
1
Seat belts can’t prevent all traffic deaths. Let’s get rid of them.
Banning cigarette smoking in public places won’t prevent all lung cancers, nor will restricting sales to minors. Let’s drop those laws.
Prohibiting alcohol sales to minors won’t prevent every case of alcoholism, so let 10 year olds buy Mad Dog.
And on and on with the specious reasoning of Rubio, the NRA, etc.
Shame on you.
37
The brewing activism over the NRA's stranglehold over far too many politicians is truly inspiring but the movement needs a rallying cry similar to the chants young people used to unnerve LBJ and Nixon during the Vietnam war years. Here is one suggestion: Hey Hey, Ho Ho, NRA Reps have got to go!
14
Can someone please do the math? Dollar value of NRA campaign donations per slaughtered child, per election cycle? I'd like to know exactly how much it takes for an elected official to throw away innocent lives.
1
Trump's budget calls for gutting the National Institute of Mental Health by 30 percent, so Republican talk, as usual, is nothing but lies.
30
And he just signed legislation making it EASIER for mentally ill to legally purchase a gun.
Plus banning bump stocks requires congressional action, not justice dept, so Trumps "plan" is phony.
Clearly it's not possible to have a dialog with the NRA.
This morning, their spokesperson Dana Loesch asserted that "many in legacy media love mass shootings," and blamed everyone and thing in the world except guns for the latest mass shooting. But the truth is that it is the NRA that loves mass shootings. Let me repeat that: THE NRA LOVES MASS SHOOTINGS.
First off, mass shootings always result in increased gun sales. Obsessive gun owners, afraid that sensible restrictions will prevent them from buying the most lethal weapons available, rush out and buy all the guns and accessories worrying they might be restricted. Gun manufacturers, the main constituency for the NRA, smile all the way to the bank.
Second, mass shootings raise the NRA leadership from spokesmen for a small fringe minority to the position of credible leaders with whom the rest of the nation has to negotiate. If you listen to their nonsense, it's obvious that they're not credible, but giving them a microphone elevates them in the eyes of their followers.
Third, crackpot ideas, like arming teachers, are given a voice. Sometimes these ideas may even get past being intentional distractions and even become a new revenue source for gun sales.
Wayne LaPierre, speaking at today's CPAC conference, berated those favoring assault weapon restrictions as "European-style Socialists." This is about as silly as calling those favoring no restrictions as "Nazi-style Thugs."
Well, maybe not.
20
My wife is a teacher, she would NEVER touch a gun nor would she believe having one in school would solve ANYTHING. Imagine having a student that is disrespectful and some nut bag teacher with a gun decided on their own brand of justice. It CAN happen.
I think the kids from Parkland and elsewhere are right and they are brave enough to have a PEACEFUL demonstration. They remind me of my generation demonstrating against war. I support them and their cause.
One more thing, the IRS should remove the tax exempt status of the NRA. They clearly are a for profit entity. Let's see how many stupid ads they can produce when they have to pay tax on their income, even at 21%.
2
I have to confess--after Wayne LaPierre's swaying, demented rant today and Trump's immediate collapse into, "let's slip teachers a few extra bucks and arm them, but no more drills, they're like all traumatic," the Senator's looking pretty good.
Not much of a reference standard, but still.
7
The NRA's sanctimonious attempts to anoint itself as a defender of freedom would ring a lot less hollow if they were not a front group for arms manufacturers intent on protecting their market share and profits.
Their self-serving solution for the nation with the world's most mass shootings during the last decade and the most firearms per capita is... wait for it... buy more guns.
These greedy merchants of death hide behind a hazy, half sentence in the Constitution in order to fatten their wallets. Meanwhile, they use their profits to buy politicians or threaten them with political annihilation if they resist.
Truly, these are the most malevolent monsters of our time.
26
And it's as simple as that! Thanks for your comment.
2
What a farce of a broadcast event, Senator Rubio and Ms. Loesch should receive medals for attending. The event was just another, in a long line, of pre-scripted CNN hit pieces against views and people it does not like. What occurred earlier in day at the White House with the President and his Town Hall was unscripted and genuine with several good thoughts on possible next steps. However none of that will appeal to the echo chamber that is CNN and the NYT's.
3
You should make note of the "empathy" notes on the paper Trump held in his hand, to remind him to show some empathy at the Town Hall.
Uncripted - maybe some but not Trump.
16
What about crazy people's 2nd Amendment rights? Pretending for a second that the NRA and GOP haven't blocked legislation to keep guns out of the hands of mentally ill people, why are they willing to reconfigure their imaginative reading of the 2nd Amendment for crazy people, but not for everyone else?
7
The NRA makes money because their sponsors, gun manufacturers, make machines that they then sell for high dollars so that many Americans and others around the world can either kill themselves or others with relative ease.
Simple as a brick.
What a horrible way to make a living.
19
Total catastrophe for those who want gun control. Booing a woman who defended herself from rape with a firearm in the era of #METOO. The video will play in nearly every congressional race in November. The DNC should have been all over the media condemning that aspect. The average person knows the odds of being a victim of a mass shooting pale in comparison to being raped, robbed or assaulted.
2
Isn’t quite obvious to the parents, grandparents, uncles, and aunts that the NRA and yes your Republican representatives value any type of gun more than they value the safety, the, rights, and the life of your children. What are going to do about it?
19
People who HATE should not have guns. Mentally ill perhaps should not have guns but it is not proven that they are the violent ones. The people who have carried out these horrendous shootings all were capable of planning their revenge and hate crime. Does the NRA suggest anything when it comes to hate?
8
When will we acknowledge that private ownership of an assault rifle in 20th C. america is incontrovertible proof of mental illness?
19
I couldn't agree more!
Rick Scott hid from these students. He is a coward.
Marco Rubio thought he could appear brave--They made him look like a shill.
Dana Loesch tried to appear sympathetic. She was revealed.
If these students don't already realize that they are making a difference and that their voices are framing the cowards and the Gun Lobby/Manufacturer Lickspittles for who they are--they are wrong. But I think they are getting ready to cause a tidal wave.
22
The NRA and the politicians in their pocket enable mass murder. Cities that make money by hosting gun shows in their convention centers have blood on their hands.
17
Who is going to confront Trump? Who?! NOW to arm teachers?! What is this?!!! It's really out of control and out of any democracy! Soon, #45 will tweet that along arming teachers, teachers will have an extra-bonus if, before the class begins (of course), just to make kids comfortable show their automatic weapons AND preach (yes, prayers are a must) that evolution and climate change are bogus. The credo: hate everybody and do whatever it takes to never dare to challenge profits. Yes, we are living in the best of all possible worlds.
3
Marco Rubio has zero intelligence linked by $3,000,000 in NRA monies! Wonder why we are subject to mass shootings anywhere we go in this once-great nation?
14
Every step of the way the Republican party is on the wrong side of history.
19
The GOP is heartless, soulless, bought, and paid for. Period.
14
This tragedy is not a mental illness problem...seems like the NRA would like for us to think that, even the president keeps saying mental illness, mental illness. This is a GUN problem, a weapon of war problem. Period. Ban them and any gun similar to this AR-15 along with the high capacity magazines. They have no business in society. If the "boys" of this nation want to shoot them, then join the military.
7
At some point, I think we have to question whether these people are even capable feeling anything about the slaughter of these kids.
They may not be capable of empathy, possibly due to brain wiring.
They seem to be wired for power and greed.
Are they just sociopaths?
Do we really want that in our “leaders”?
7
It turns out that the gunman responsible for last week's shooting received training on firearms at the Parkland school courtesy of a joint arrangement by the NRA and the US Army's school program.
Why are we training students to use guns?
Why is the corporate media not reporting this?
https://www.democracynow.org/2018/2/21/inside_the_us_military_recruitmen...
9
It was reported.
Marco Rubio is an embarrassment.
13
While this reporting didn't impress me, I thought the Washington Post's annotated article on the exchanges was superior. Sen Rubio did yeoman's work on the issue in a charged environment.
He felt the need to have someone from the NRA onstage with him? So she could lie for him? Is her access to the stage what the NRA paid Rubio all of those campaign contributions for?
Mr. Rubio is wrong when he says NRA members support his agenda. The majority of NRA members favor gun sense legislative restrictions. It's not the gun owners holding Mr. Rubio hostage, it's the gun manufacturers.
19
The article says: "Mr. Rubio, for his part, had offered opening remarks that he clearly hoped would deflect criticism during the event. He expressed grief for those who were affected by the shooting, but he said that people in the United States needed to find ways to disagree “without accusing one another of being evil people.”"
"Evil" is a strong word, but maybe not strong enough in to describe how I am feeling about Marco Rubio and other politicians like him right now. They need to know how many people are feeling, and the word "evil" just about nails it.
14
If parents utilized the Compulsory Education Law properly and educated their children at home, instead of sending them to school, then those children who were victims of violence and bullying would have been safe. It's not the Second Amendment, it's the public schools that's to blame.
2
You have got to be kidding me!
3
Want to fix the problem? Overturn Citizen's United and get big money OUT of politics. As long as running for office costs a ferocious amount of money, interests of the constituents will never be heard. Politicians will forever be beholden to corporate and special interest donors.
27
The shooter in Tucson was tackled when he paused to reload. There is NO QUESTION that limits on magazine sizes would save lives. The quibbling on such obvious questions is enraging.
21
This is not about lives, it's about lobbyists. This is not about protests, it's about profits. Why do we have to urge republicans to protect the people especially our most precious - children.
After this gun law (discussion) fades next weeks, there needs to be action taken to get money out of politics so we all can feel safe, again.
18
We know the Russians have been engaged in creating division within the U.S. Ever wonder how much money the NRA is receiving from Russian oligarchs?
17
It's been reported that the FBI is looking into that - you know, the "corrupt" FBI that Trump and all the right-wingers have been attacking.
1
"Mr. Rubio, Republican of Florida...[said] that he intended to continue accepting money from the N.R.A. and other groups that support his pro-gun agenda."
Maybe we should start calling this his "pro-death" agenda. This NRA and guns at all cost agenda is curious for a politiican that claims he supports life.
30
This is a great idea.... pro-death agenda could really be powerful . I hope activists pick up on this. Really good idea!
If they don't support and vote for more restrictive measures, the legislators are complicit in future shootings and should be accountable, even if it is only in civil courts. The worn out complaint that it is all just a mental health issue is totally invalidated when these same politicians using the excuse turn around and gut mental health programs and health care in general. Strange how the "abolish Obamacare" people are the same ones using the mental health excuse. If that isn't complicity, I don't know what is.
18
"People buy into my agenda."
This is exactly what people are not doing. This is why politicians need the money: To cajole voters to vote for them despite the fact that they do not agree with the agenda. The NRA buys the agenda.
17
It always amuses me how fiercely the gun advocates invoke the Constitution and American history to support the propagation of weapons in America. And then you hear them push these points in the media. In listening to them, why do I always get the feeling they have probably never laid eyes on the Constitution and were generally poor and inattentive students who likely had no interest in civics and spent most of their time in game arcades rather than the library? Yet as they mature, they have suddenly taken an interest in the Constitution? Hmmm. Me thinks they doth protest too much.
9
For Americans there always has to be a central bogeyman to make the story understandable. The problem is the NRA. The young man shot up the school because of the NRA. 96 Americans are killed by guns on average every day..must be the NRA. 13,000 gun homicides in America each year..it's that darn NRA doing it. The fact is that we are a violent country and we like violent sports, violent media and violent video games, AND WE GLORIFY VIOLENCE. that's just one of the problems facing our country at this moment in history in which 25 percent of all American children now grow up without their father in the house. Until America actively confronts its problems nothing will ever get solved. We are no longer the greatest country in the world, no country can have all the problems that we do and make that claim.
As for Rubio. If he dared to vote for one gun ban, just one, then he would be voted out of the Senate by the people of Florida who want their guns and their gun rights left just the way they are, and that's the real truth.
5
You are exactly right. America glorifies violence. So why make it so ridiculously easy to obtain assault rifles? If an angry, crazy kid wants to take out his aggressions at a school (or anywhere else for that matter), let him go running and screaming through the halls with a baseball bat.
No, we know that guns are the problem, but it is the NRA that is enabling easy access to guns, by buying off spineless politicians. Maybe Rubio should think more about what is good for his constituents, instead of what lines his pockets.
Canada is culturally very similar to us. They watch the same movies, listen to the same music etc. but they do not have our problems because they have more gun control.
A shining example of the disconnect between the electorate and their "representatives." I think the kids in Tallahassee the other night put it best, "vote them out!"
21
The rational gun-policy movement could coalesce under the banner National Organization for Reduced Armaments, and publicize itself under the acronym No-R.A.
4
The NRA has about 5 million dues-paying members. It is beyond comprehension that they are holding the other 325 million of us hostage.
23
They're holding the guns to our heads.
How does Marco Rubio look his own beautiful children in the eye, knowing the danger he sends them into every day they go to school?
12
Maybe they go to private schools - so far they (private schools) have not had massacres!
“People who are crazy should not be able to get firearms,” - spokeswoman for the N.R.A., Dana Loesch
Personally, I believe anyone who supports the position of the NRA on these issues over the lives of children is 'crazy'. Anyone who is against a total ban on assault weapons of every kind is 'crazy'. Anyone who can look a child in the face who just lost a brother/friend/sister/teacher at a mass shooting in a school and defend the status quo is 'crazy'.
So yes, I agree, 'crazy' people should not have access to firearms, period.
16
Ask Sen. Rubio and his fellow NRA cohorts if Congress should allow open carry within its hallowed halls. Would love to hear those responses.
11
Simple. Vote him out. Vote them all out. Rubio was going to retire and go into private life but couldn't get an NRA pension, needed another 12 years to be fully vested.
One good thing about Trump, the fool makes everything more transparent, truly showing us that he and the GOP are the enemy of the people in so many ways. TURN OUT AND VOTE.
20
When parents donate MORE MONEY than the NRA to Congress and have more votes than the NRA; Congress will begin to listen.
Otherwise, all bets are off!
1
Rubio: To summarize, we will do what we can to ensure that some people get killed, just not as many.
Teachers and coaches ran TO the bullets to protect their kids and still, Republicans like Rubio care more about the guns than the students, the church-goers, the theater-goers.... All Rubio has done is move slightly from his first response, which was that we are helpless because "a mass shooter will always find a way" to saying maybe we should tinker around the edges while continuing to be subsidized by the NRA. Cowards one and all.
9
I have been a Floridian for twenty plus years now and have found Rubio to be one of the most cynical and calculating politicians in America. Please know that others from this state feel the same way.
13
It's a real shame that Sen. Rubio or any Senator or Congressman can live without principle, allowing NRA rule their lives. They twist the 2nd amendment for power and monetary gain, nothing more.
7
I can not just give Rubio "respect" or whatever others are saying because he "showed up". He is in the NRAs pocket and he doesn't support assault rifle bans. He can't even acknowledge that these weapons are too easy for people to get. As a Floridian, I will be voting (again) to remove him from office. I am sure all these new 18 year old voters will join me.
13
I wish someone would inform the NRA's spokespeople that when they say that they don't want "crazy" people buying/owning assault rifles, that perhaps the act of owning/buying an assault rifle is crossing a line of "normal" behavior that may in fact be an indicator that they are, with that act, slipping into the realm of "crazy".
5
I hate to say this, but instead of Rubio taking money from the nra and eeking out an election victory, I think the timing is right if he stands up to the nra for gun control—he wins with a landslide.
2
Unfortunately, the NRA will turn against him and run negative ads raising any other issues they can to prevent his reelection.
1
As always, the NRA (and the puppet-like Marco Rubio) go to their bread and butter: distract, deflect, divert. Now they are claiming that it's insanity, not bullets that tore through the bodies and brains of those innocent children in Parkland, Florida. You know, 'Guns don't kill people... insanity kills people.' Which is ironically, sort of true: it's insane to suggest that guns don't kill people, but the NRA lives by that vast canard.
I'm all for increased awareness of mental health issues and how they adversely affect Americans. (Patient number one: Donald Trump. Evidence of sanity is sadly lacking!)
As for Dana Loesch specifically: anyone who supposes you put a fire out by adding fuel to it is obviously in need of some mental health advice herself. To publicly state that what we need is, 'good guys with guns to take out the bad guys with guns,' is about as sensible as saying, 'I feel too drunk to drive. I'll drink more and then I won't notice I'm too drunk. Problem solved!'
As for the NRA: there are disturbing indicators of Russian influence on the NRA, like The FBI is investigating whether top Russian banker Alexander Torshin, who has close ties to the Kremlin, sent money to the NRA to help President Trump win the election. With connections like this, the NRA should be held powerless in any public debate until such ties are cleared up or exposed. We don't know who they speak for. Gun owners? The firearms industry? The FSB? Putin?
And Rubio?
Bought.
9
All right now. Let's get serious. Senator Rubio (hate to use that title, which used to mean something) takes money from the NRA. I think that says everything.
2
Rubio will do nothing. What everyone else needs to do is give generously to, and work for, his opponent when he is next up for reelection. Defeat him and all the rest of our NRA Senators and Representatives.
Let's get some branding going (as the GOP does with pro-life an pro-family). Politicians who take NRA money choose "guns over kids" or they are "pro-mass slaughter." Marco Rubio is on the side of "guns over kids," or "Marco Rubio votes 100% of the time for mass slaughter." something like that. NRA support must become a badge of shame.
4
Isn't a well regulated militia the National Guard? If so, for the rest of us the right to be armed is a privilege not a right.
5
It's easy to call the gunman an insane monster, but that's neither accurate nor helpful. He was a troubled kid with lousy parents who both died and the kid never got the help he clearly needed. An angry, depressed, troubled kid in a society filled with hate and a gun culture that allows anyone with a pulse own immense firepower is a bad mix. Unfortunately, society is filled with kids like this and its nearly impossible to know which ones will resort to violence. What we do know is that the ones who do will choose weapons designed to efficiently murder large numbers of people in a short period of time. Since we can't identify the shooters but we can identify the weapons they will use, common sense dictates what should be done.
4
Marco Rubio received $3.3 million from the NRA. Maybe if our children raised $3.3 million for him, he would support safety for our children and citizens.
His arguments are so hollow.
4
He wants to be president. No way Rubio will cave on the gun control issue.
1
Other than complete elimination of automatic weapons, the solutions proposed take significant tax dollars to implement. Whether increasing school security or addressing mental health tax dollars need to be put to work. Does anyone see Trump or the GOP increasing taxes? Trump, Ryan and the GOP are simply useless politicians - unless of course you are the 1% and enjoy chaos.
4
Our forefathers instituted the 2nd amendment in the days when muskets were the deadliest of weapons. Muskets of that day fired 4 bullets per minute (on a good day with a skilled marksman). Today's assault rifles can shoot 360 bullets per minute. Do you think our forefathers had this in mind when they instituted the 2nd amendment? The NRA and Supreme Court arguments holding up the 2nd amendment are truly specious.
4
Do you think our forefathers had the Internet in mind when they created the first amendment? Think about it, back in 1800 an idea would take years or even decades to spread, not minutes... pretty dangerous stuff for a ruling, slave owning, white class like our founding fathers.
These amendments were written broadly for a reason and if you want to change the constitution I think the process is pretty well-documented. Win the American people over with your words. Try not to demonize the other side that you need to win support from because it doesn’t win you any votes.
guns are to be used for recreation, not killing. ban assault weapons to the public.
4
Rubio refused to consider banning assault rifles and to stop taking gun manufacturers bribes through their mouthpiece the NRA.
Think about that. Even the repeated mass slaughters of his constituents, including their children, can't budge his slavish devotion to those manufacturers and their agenda of turning the nation from a safe place to live an raise a family into one large free fire zone.
That is a snapshot of the level of the corruption of todays GOP.
4
This is less about the NRA, its beneficiaries and sympathizers, and more about why they are so unrelenting. Their positions are cultural retribution for desegregation, and they will never change. Now that really is sad.
2
I have been hunting since 9 years of age. Their is no reason for any gun to hold at the most 3 rounds for hunting, If you need more than three rounds you either need to spend more times at the range practicing, or just stop hunting, too great of risk for just wounding your prey which is a major sportsman sin. Most of the large hunting ranching in Texas, will not allow a hunter to use a AR style of this weapon just for this reason, "just making buzzard feed" due to high risk of lost from wounding animal. A weapon that holds more than 3 rounds is just for killing. I would even go as far to say all rifles should have a "trap door" style of magazine instead of a removable clip. A trap door style magazine takes 2 mins. to load verses a clip that can be popped out and replaced in seconds. Maybe only limit clip styles to rim fire rifles.
The large high capacity clips in the public hands is just plan stupid. It gives the possible victims no time to charge, or throw stuff at an active shooter to take him down. Cannot charge a shooter that is spewing out 16 rounds every 10 secs.. ARs are typically .223 or .308 caliber. Just the shooters recover from the second rapid shot of a large center-fire cartridge will go wild to the target most of the time, because the shooter cannot re-target from the recoil in rapid secession. Mass random killing/wounding is the end result.
4
The people at the town hall were correct. Characterizing their response with the word "jeer" is wrong. They were neither rude nor mocking. They were sad, alarmed, traumatized. They were unwilling and unable to believe what they were hearing. The positions of Mr. Rubio, for instance, were indecent, unreasonable, and frankly more than a little insane.
Arming teachers would be inane and insane. The Trump Republican party is in a death spiral that looks like a mental illness.
Mr. Rubio said we could not ban assault weapons because that would mean banning all rifles. He said we could not ban them because the prior law had too many loopholes.
My goodness! Fix the prior law. Every other developed country in the world has been able to properly regulate assault weapons.
These Trump Republicans are drowning in their own dishonesty, absurdity, greed, immorality, and hypocrisy.
They do all they can to kill health care including mental health care. And then they blame mass shootings on the mentally ill, which is, in and of itself, both an untruth and ineffective policy. In fact, it is a prejudicial demonization of the mentally ill who are almost never violent.
The chicken-Republicans Mr. Trump and Mr. Scott did not come though they were invited. They have no decent convictions and no true courage.
The NRA has already opposed the meager suggestions proposed by Trump including raising the purchase age. Rubio refused to say he would decline NRA money.
7
Rubio is an amoral opportunist. Not long after Trump called him little Marco, Rubio stooped to Trump's level and gladly used the language of the sewer to fight back against Trump. It didn't work. He then re-ran for the Senate and won. His fellow traveler on gun rights, Gov. Rick Scott, is now running for the Senate. With the Pulse nightclub and now Parkland, the State Department should put Florida on its warning list, cautioning all Americans that their lives would be in danger should they choose to visit. That the Winter White House (sorry for the capital letters) is located there makes it all the more hostile to any notion of human decency or human life.
3
As long as the Second Amendment serves as a pretext for the unregulated sale and private ownership of guns, we are doomed to live in a nation awash in high powered weaponry whose only true raison d'etre is to maim and kill anything that lives and breathes.
And so long as the Second Amendment provides the basis for elevating the supposedly inalienable, God-given right to own a limitless number of firearms and any amount of ammunition, including high powered bullets whose only purpose is to maximize death and destruction, we will keep hearing that rights under the Second Amendment trump the right to be free from random violence.
Jealousy, rage, sadness, carelessness, mental illness - these will be with us always. When guns are close at hand, these inevitable conditions of human existence result in gun violence.
We do not live in the 18th century. The three hundred million guns in the U.S. are not used to ward off bears in the wilderness, to put food on the table, for protection from roving bands of "banditos," or as a defense against "tyranny." They are used to threaten and to kill people - and as the most convenient and inexorable method of suicide.
There is really only one solution. Stop mollycoddling gun nuts. Stop giving the NRA equal time, and what is effectively veto power over the will of the majority. The majority wants to be rid of guns. To be rid of guns, we need to be rid of the Second Amendment. It is a dangerous anachronism.
To end the insanity, it must go.
2
It is clear that Rubio is no master debater.
1
Rubio is said to have collected a cool million from the NRA; a tidy sum that is just lately looking more and more like thirty pieces of silver.
2
Since money is everything, who finances the NRA? Go after them. If the NRA doesn't have money, they will not be able to pay off legislators and they will not be able to survive.
3
Gun advocacy groups probably spend about 50 million buying Republican legislators. How hard can it be to get the same amount of money from all those liberal billionaires or even ordinary citizens?
1
Office of the President: Owned and operated by the NRA, with probable co-ownership by Russia. Trump admitted on live television this afternoon he is the biggest supporter of the NRA.
US Congress: Majority owned by the NRA. Bowing to the money gods at the NRA, too many in Congress refuse to stand up for the right of people to life.
Arming teachers: One of the dumbest ideas ever to be raised. Why, in a moment of panic during a shooting, would anyone want a non-professional attempting to fire a weapon in the midst of confusion while people are diving under furniture, running for their lives, and trying to save themselves? This is a prescription for more death as innocent people will be killed by the very people trying to save them. Try arming teachers and find out what a real teacher shortage is as responsible teachers flee our public school systems in droves.
Assault weapons: as a retired military member, I will say this as succinctly as possible: there is absolutely no reason for a civilian to own an assault weapon, whether it is an AR-15 or any other type. They are weapons of war and as far as I know, the people of this country are not at war with each other.
I'll take heat for saying no one needs to own an assault weapon, but I don't care. No civilian needs to own an assault weapon.
Nothing will change. Trump and a majority in Congress will continue taking NRA money and bowing to whatever agenda the NRA supports. We are doomed to more mass killings.
2
I am stunned at the suggestion by many that we should arm teachers and/or hire retired police or military to stand watch at our schools.
I spent my career as a prosecutor and had multiple opportunities to investigate shootings by police officers. The idea that even a well trained “good man with a gun” will be able to terminate and active shooter firing an AR-15 must come from video games and movies because it certainly doesn’t come from real life.
I have seen well trained officers shoot their own colleagues and innocent civilians or manage to shoot no one more often than successfully get the bad guy and only the bad guy. Anyone who suggests such a policy is acting out of complete ignorance or bad faith.
I am also tired of hearing from those who argue that the problem is the failure to heed warnings about those with mental issues. Are the folks so concerned about gun rights willing to endorse preventive detention of anybody who has demonstrated erratic or threatening behavior? Should we imprison 100 such people indefinitely in the hope that we have prevented the one who would actually act on the threat? Is that how much our Constitutional rights mean to you?
Why are the majority of the Republican Party elected officials unwilling to fund studies to find out the root causes of this recent rash of mass killings? Are they afraid that scientific study will demonstrate that fewer and harder to get guns might actually help.
12
I hate to be blunt, but to borrow an oft quoted phrase "...follow the money..." How many politicians would support the most extreme positions on any issue if the money was taken out of the equation? Right now it involves the abuse of the 2nd Amendment. Sooner or later, it will be something else. As a former Floridian, I can honestly say that walking into my high school in a well to do section of So. Florida, I was fearful for my personal safety. We had our ideas of students who had weapons in their car, we were just grateful that they never took them out in anger. Now, someone has. The long term issue is how do the citizens of this country get their politicians to represent them as opposed to the moneyed interests who don't even live in the district, city, or state whose laws those same officials are sworn to protect?
3
Who doesn't have so-called "mental health" issues? How many of us can claim that we have never been angry to the point where we want to hurt someone? Guns make that option easy and lethal.
If we agree that people without the mental capacity to refrain from shooting people when anger strikes should not own a gun, then most of us (and perhaps all those without military training) should never own a gun.
128
mental health as currently defined is a small percentage of gun violence. The problem is too many guns.
1
There are a number of things that contribute to the lethality of so-called assault weapons. They’re lightweight and easily carried. They accept large magazines that can hold at least 100 rounds (e.g. in Las Vegas). It’s also semiautomatic meaning individual bullets are fired as fast as the trigger is pulled.
The Bushmaster manual says the maximal ‘effective’ rate is 45 per minute, but that assumes aiming at a single target. You can easily pull a trigger much faster if you’re shooting at a crowd of kids in a hallway. And while the bullet is small caliber, it’s fired at high velocity ensuring the maximum kinetic damage is done to human tissues. Ask Steve Scalise how his pelvis is doing after he was shot just once.
Weapons of this character only belong in the hands of the military, SWAT teams, and selected police officers. Any regulations limiting their availability to the public need to acknowledge all facets of their enhanced lethality.
2
I applaud the NRA for sending Dana Loesch to a CNN anti-gun forum where the audience was bound to be stacked with emotional liberals. Her performance was measured and respectful. I however would not have been so accommodating.
The NRA is a powerful civil rights organization because liberty loving Americans like myself support it. Politicians know which side the electorate is on and that is why they oppose more gun laws. Anti-gunners find it easy to vilify the NRA, but they should grow a spine and vilify the majority of Americans who support the 2nd Amendment. Yes, Americans love their guns.. and the rights and liberties that affords, and we will not be shamed by teary eyed reactionaries into giving up a fundamental human right.
The 2nd Amendment allows normal citizens to own firearms. It is a genius idea that puts real power in the hands of normal citizens. This is one of the things that makes America great and unique. The right to own arms is the backbone of the constitution and protects all our other rights such as freedom of speech, assembly and so on. We should do all we can to stop murder, including reasonable restrictions, school safety, mental screening, armed guards.. all should be on the table. But suggesting that banning "assault weapons" would stop mass killings is ridiculous.
1
Actually, the majority of Americans, NRA members included, support common sense gun regulations, including the banning of automatic and semi-automatic weapons.
America is unique, as an industrialized nation, in allowing free ownership of automatic and semi-automatic weapons. When you are done insulting those who do not think like you, compare the number of mass shootings here with those of other Western, industrialized nations.
You are welcome.
Fact: For ten years assault rifles were banned, no one massacre! George W. Bush allowed the ban to expire and we had Columbine, etc.,etc.,etc.,
We are about to fire every NRA owned Republican.
A simple note from a loving Mom - to all teenagers and other Moms out there...
Children deserve carefree happiness, freedom to choose how they learn and who gets to decide their future!
Going down the path that the NRA, President Trump and Senators like Rubio are suggesting is a dark alley - not meant for children and one that will only escalate in its divisiveness and darkness.
We must choose light.
We must reverse this dark, gloomy and violent trend for our children.
Schools are not a place for guns. The NRA and GOP have slowly but surely been systematically bringing gun ownership into our lives and that is the simple truth behind this horrendous nightmare of gun violence.
Kids need to have the freedom to learn with joy, teachers need to have the ability to teach with love and law enforcement should be able to protect us with their necessary tools and armaments. ABOVE all else, guns don't belong in a country predisposed to violence.
This is not such a tough idea.
So dear moms and soon to be 18 year old teenagers - Register to Vote - make the time to vote - vote the NRA and GOP enablers like Rubio out.
It's time to take our country back for our children.
5
I know his will not go over well with the many gun owners that support the NRA, but for those who agree with the kids and parents in Florida, New Haven, Columbine etc, boycott the places that sell guns and ammunition. They are like any one else in business, relying on the almighty dollar to stay open. Let's cause them some pain and grief.
2
"Ms. Loesch repeatedly deflected questions about restrictions on the availability of guns, insisting instead that keeping guns out of the hands of the mentally ill or people with criminal records would keep students safe.
“I don’t believe that this insane monster should have ever been able to obtain a firearm, ever,” Ms. Loesch told Emma González, a senior at the high school. “None of us support people who are crazy, who are a danger to themselves, who are a danger to others, getting their hands on a firearm.” and "Mr. Rubio, for his part, had offered opening remarks that he clearly hoped would deflect criticism during the event. He expressed grief for those who were affected by the shooting, but he said that people in the United States needed to find ways to disagree “without accusing one another of being evil people.” Talk about an oxymoron if there ever was one. Demonizing people with mental health issues by calling them "crazy," "insane," and "monsters" does not help the discussion and deflects from the real issue that ASSAULT RIFLES KILL PEOPLE. That's their only function and reason for design and manufacture. Someone with a serious mental health issue will ALWAYS have the upper hand no matter how much our schools become armed prison camps because of the element of surprise - no one knows when someone is going to go into homicidal mode. This school shooting proves that beyond a reasonable doubt since many warning signs WERE reported and ignored.
1
Donald repealed an Obama era law that makes it more difficult for someone with a history of mental illness to purchase weapons.
Donald, the NRA and Republicans have the blood of our children on their hands!
1
Our gun problem in America is a lot like a weed problem in the garden. Gun enthusiasts want to arm more people rather than getting to the "root" of the problem. To get rid of a weed infestation in the garden, you have to pull them up by the roots, not just chop off the top. The same goes for the gun problem. Get to the root of the problem. Limit the kinds of guns people can own, and ban guns from those with mental health issues. Mental health issues can range from anger management to physical harm. I would not trust a person with a gun who has anger management issues.
1
Mental health is not the wild card, combat weapons are.
4
Florida, Rubio has got to go. He takes millions from NRA in exchange for supporting assault weaponry in his State. He cares not for his constituents. He cares only for donors.
15
It is laughable and offensive that the NRA presents itself as the vanguards of America's freedom. It has about 5,000,000 members, out of the total population of about 325,000,000 Americans. That's roughly 1.5%, a negligible amount, but hey, they're the ones keeping the hordes at bay! Apparently, we should be thankful.
Then again, the NRA is not the only one guilty of this thinking. I always think of that famous quote by Ronald Wright, that basically says socialism never took hold in this country because the poor thinks of themselves as temporarily embarrassed millionaires. A similar thing could be said about guns. Sensible gun legislation will never take hold, because the majority of Americans think of themselves as temporarily embarrassed action stars who are bound to stop an armed robbery or an oppressive government crack down at some point or another. "It'll happen, you'll see! Then you'll be THANKFUL for people like us!" It's all so childish. Americans will never grow up.
9
If you haven't seen it, watch Lawrence O'Donnell's top story last night, "Trump, Teachers and Guns" describing Trump's 'fantasy war game scenario' that would pit an armed school teacher against a shooter with an assault weapon, and to consider just how wrong that can go on so many levels. It's worth taking the time to watch: https://www.msnbc.com/.../lawrence-why-arming-teachers-is
5
Kudos to these kids and the other protesters for their tenacity and ability to confront these lame politicians who are reticent to stand up for gun restrictions. I, for one, hope that their protests and marches will expand exponentially in the coming days to include many more people (young, old, and anyone in between) who have had enough of our lack of gun controls in this country. It's about time we stood up against the ridiculous interpretation of the 2nd amendment - no one in their right mind interprets this amendment to mean our forefathers wanted every American to have access to the caliber of guns available to the general public today. Other countries (who also have mentally ill citizens BTW- but stricter gun regulations are doing a good job of stopping them from shooting up their schools) look at the US and think we are completely crazy for allowing this gun madness to continue. I, for one, hope that these moronic politicians will be voted out of office in the upcoming elections - that is one of the best ways that the tide can be turned on this issue in the future, and it will send a strong message that we will no longer tolerate this madness!
5
Why was the NRA even there? And if they were going to let her participate, they should have shown one of the many web-ads that lady appears in regularly. Talk about thinly veiled threats!
3
Marco Rubio knew exactly what he was doing last night. Decent people heard his answers and saw him for the amoral, soul-dead being he is. But so did his gun-loving followers. He defended their right to own rapid-fire combat weapons to the entire nation, and in the very faces of grieving parents and their slaughtered and traumatized children. The divide doesn't get any clearer than this, folks. As a result of his performance, Rubio will bring in record donations the next time he stands for office. Those of us who find that beyond disgusting have one recourse -- to donate as much as possible to, and to work as hard as possible for, his next opponent. We can, and must, make an example of this man.
13
18 or 21 doesn't matter. The prefrontal cortex, that part of the brain that coordinates higher-order cognitive processes (e.g. impulsive decision making and rational second thought) isn't fully developed until the mid or late 20's. It is no coincidence they draft 19-year-old males.
7
Way easier to tax the bullets than ban the guns, which I'd guess does not run afoul of any interpretation of the second amendment.
$100 per bullet should keep most (all?) of the active shooters without ammunition (although I'm no Constitutional scholar).
Offer the tax receipts from the bullets to anyone running for office on the condition they refuse any pro-gun lobby money.
4
Yeah, I've wondered if a 1000% tax on ammo would help. I'm guessing that the political will doesn't exist for that, either.
I'd say that Mario Rubio spent way too much time glad-handing and buttering up the students and speakers, and at least at first presented himself as exactly the wrong thing--yet another pol, who'd get through the night and then do absolutely nothing.
I also suspect he spent a fair amount of time trying to get sound-bites out of Bill Nelson for the fall campaigns.
But at least he showed up, ate it, listened at least a little, and maybe almost possibly seemed to be actually evolving a little, which is more than one may say for Rick Scott.
2
Despite the ongoing tragedies, especially the needless killing of children at Parkland, I must admit, as an outsider, I honestly believe that nothing will really change going forward and in my view, these events are something that America will unfortunately have to continue to live with. I say this because like healthcare solutions, there are countless and obvious examples in the outside world of how to deal with the problem yet, America, many of its politicians AND a good portion of the electorate want no part of the solutions. If Americans REALLY wanted to do something about it, they would not continue to elect those whose goal is to keep the status quo and America remain the outlier.
The political/ideological divisions in America are so deep and entrenched that even if democrats were to overwhelmingly win the Presidency, House and Senate, would anything really change especially with those on the opposite side of the political/ideological spectrum who choose to live in their alternate reality? The hate and vitriol coming out of these groups towards the Parkland student protesters are just an example. In many ways, America is a country tearing itself apart.
If any changes in American society are accomplished going forward, it will take generations for that to happen and perhaps, if they choose to stick with it and, unlike other tragedies, refuse to let it fade into memory, these kids are future voters who can make a difference.
6
The solution to gun violence is clear and not a complex problem.
There are three sets of causes when talking about events such as the shootings of innocent victims.
• First, the psychology of the killer; i.e. mental health
• Second, the environment of violence in our popular culture; and,
• Third, easy access to guns.
Any one of these might explain a single shooting. What Americans should be discussing is not one single event but why they have so many of them. Much more than any of the industrialized countries.
So, what explains this difference? If psychology/mental health is the main cause, the USA should have 12 times as many psychologically disturbed people. But they don’t, actually the USA does take mental disorders seriously and invest more in this area than do many other industrialized countries.
Is America’s popular culture the cause? This is highly unlikely, as largely the same culture exists in other industrialized countries like Canada.
Canadians do have millions of guns. Private citizens owning assault rifles or handguns is extremely rare. In Canada it takes up to 60 days to obtain a firearm, after registering, taking a course and going through background checks.
So, when you look at the data it would strongly suggest to anyone with common sense... yes pure common sense... that the USA have so much more gun violence than other countries because they have far more permissive laws than others regarding the sale and possession of guns.
3
Don't agree with Rubio's positions but he showed up in, for him, a hostile environment. Respect.
4
If handled deftly these school shootings can be very profitable for the gun industry. Not only would assault weapons be allowed, but teacher and other school personnel would be encouraged to carry guns. Think of how the money would roll into gun manufacturers if every teacher was required to carry a gun. No wonder that the NRA is giving over $1 million dollars to every politician that supports their cause!
6
It's not just about voting for the other candidate. We have to outspend the NRA and its members.
And don't aim so low - repeal the Second Amendment. I don't think the British are coming back.
16
But the Gineese!
And don't forget that the Army, Navy, Air Force and Marine Corp could go rogue under a tyrannical President and threaten the very liberty of all Americans. I don't know how an AR-15 is going to protect anyone from the combined might of America's armed forces. It just seems entirely delusional to me - a "well-armed militia" of amateurs would be annihilated in half a day.
1
"People who are crazy should not be able to get firearms."-Dana Loesch
This comment shows that she hasn't been paying attention or is willfully ignoring the facts. The Obama administration already had background checks for those who were mentally ill and Trump repealed it. Yes, the shooter in Florida was mentally ill by most definitions but he was still allowed to own his guns because there are no background checks in Florida.
Last night I was waiting for someone to ask her if people on the no fly list, i. e. suspected terrorists should be allowed to own guns. I would love to hear her defend the rights of people who are considered to dangerous to fly in a commercial airplane on television. The NRA is looking more ridiculous by the hour.
13
Unfortunately, no matter what is said or done about gun control nobody is going to do the right thing and that is to repeals the second amendment of the constitution and if not possible at least not allow machine guns, assaults rifles, and the likes for the very simple reason that they are only to be used in wars and it is for sure they will be no a war in the USA ever and finally to Mes. Loesch, please get better information about mental health although someone said already that there are some 43 millions of mentally sick people in the USA (I do not believe this statistic) but there a lot and I mean a lot but not that many millions.
Mental health is the common evasion of the Republicans and the NRA. Yet, I don't recall them outlining how they'd regulate it.
Not everyone with a mental health issue gets treatment so they can't be tracked that way. A person with a mental health issue applying for a gun permit likely wouldn't admit they've a problem. People develop mental health issues at any given time, such as PTSD and schizophrenia (which often develops in one's 20's) so how does one regulate that?
"Mental health" refrains are stalling, evasive tactics design to ensure that gun sales continue to skyrocket, while the carnage, death and destruction do the same.
21
“First, you have to define what it is. It basically bans 220 specific models of gun,” Mr. Rubio said, prompting applause from the audience.
He continued, saying that the bill also allows for “2,000 other types” of guns that operate the same way but are not classified as assault weapons.
In a society that needs this many gun types something is very wrong. Is this a civilized country?
20
I am sick of the attacks on gun control proposals that say that there are so many guns out there that new bans won’t help and actually the rest of you better go buy some yourself considering how risky us gun-lovers hav made things. Rubio and the NRA argue that an assault weapon ban is ineffectual because there are already too many of them around. Fine. Let’s have a ban on the sale or ownership of all semi-automatic rifles, accompanied by a federal buy-back program. True, some bad people wont comply with the requirement, but most will. There is no need for an M-16, the gun I learned to shoot in the army for hunting target practice or self-defense.
19
The Second Amendment was based partially on the right to keep and bear arms in English common law and was influenced by the English Bill of Rights of 1689. Sir William Blackstone described this right as an auxiliary right, supporting the natural rights of self-defense and resistance to oppression, and the civic duty to act in concert in defense of the state. The Supreme Court has upheld this via it's Heller decision.
2
Why is the NRA even on the podium with an elected official? Having them there to what, deflect the peoples' anger? - only confuses the issues.
We the people did not vote for the NRA, though they might not agree, since so many of these politicians are NRA surrogates. Elected officials alone must to answer to their constituents. And they must answer to us alone.
19
Actually, we the people DID vote for the NRA, and will continue to do so. Try being personally responsible for your own safety, as any citizen should. Give up being a subject.
What those protesters seem to forget is that Marco Rubio and the NRA are backed by millions of american citizens who believe that owning guns for their own entertainment is worth more than children lives. So I think they're aiming at the wrong target: it isn't the NRA or the GOP representatives that should get all the shame: it is all those who keep supporting them and believe handing away guns to kids is perfectly normal.
14
Attitudes and 'culture' can be changed by laws and regulations. It's been done many times before. Automobiles - seat belts , for example. I'm sure many people objected. (as for the "yeah, but there's no 2nd amendment for automobiles" argument: the Founders didn't envisage AR-15s, bazookas, RPGs, nor did they think about "mental health" while framing the right to bear arms, I don't think. So, YES - it's a living constitution, and original intent can only be taken so far.)
So insurance, manufacturers, regulators, together can change societal attitudes. "Conservatism" is of course against such a belief. "Progressives" by definition are for such action. The question is how to set about such a "progressive" agenda.
Trump's latest approach to this serious public health problem is to promote the sale of even MORE guns, under the idea that this will keep our school children safe. Thoughtless as all of his ideas, and a cover for continuing Republican support of the NRA which is paying their way. Our Arizona senators are saying nothing: McCain has even more funds coming in from the NRA than the others, and Flake doesn't seem to know what Arizonans want.
5
I was glued to my TV watching this forum. It was both painful and hopeful to see these young students challenging the gun lobby status quo.
Senator Rubio got points for showing up but to see him dance around the direct questions from the parent of a slain student was particularly riveting and totally despicable.
Will this movement live past the usual 7 day news cycle? As the Zen master said, we’ll see. But the time is NOW to remove battlefield weapons from our streets.
Sadly, I have no doubt that there is some deranged individual out there oiling up his AR-15 to be the next active school shooter.
This has to stop.
18
I could not attend, I was working on homework and school projects with my children. If people would simply raise their children, many problems in our country would be greatly diminished.
1
It's not so much the amount of money these elected politicians get from the NRA, it is the undue influence that this organization has on them by threatening them with a low "NRA rating" and NRA support for their opponents. When the gun industry is the only commodity in the free market that has subsidized immunity from litigation; when the CDC is prohibited from even studying the issue of gun violence; and when ANY proposal to regulate guns is immediately shut down; it is obvious that guns come before American lives for our government.
7
I really hate to be so cynical, the students showed such great courage and determination, but in two or three weeks, this will most likely all be forgotten and fade into the ether. Unless and until people in congress who support the NRA are defeated at the ballot box. Same old same old. I hope I'm wrong.
5
It has become obvious that our "elected leaders" only do what they are paid to do via special interest donations. So, if its all about the money, do we need to form a special interest group, an Anti-NRA if you will, collect money and make donations to campaigns to offset the NRA's money? Perhaps that will send a message to Marco Rubio and his kind that we have "bought into his agenda" .
4
I agree and am thinking we need to better utilize the "anti-NRA" organizations that exist but aren't so visible (e.g., www.Everytown.org). We have a moment now to seize.
While the NRA, Trump and the GOP is being bashed, the issue of how to make our schools safe and prevent these massacres immediately was not addressed.
So while the media and the politicians are debating the nuances of gun control, our students are as vulnerable today as they were before the Parkland tragedy. We need to focus on a solution that is immediate and as the Father said sort out the politics of gun control later.
I watched the town hall with my 14 year old son. At one point, the Broward County sheriff started talking about how high schools needed better sercurity, and what that would look like. The look on my sons face said it all. He was shocked. He goes to high school. There are no security guards, metal detectors, all the doors are open all day, every day. He said he couldn't imagine what it would be like to live in a world like that sheriff was describing. I told him he would never have to, that Canada has strict gun control, and that we don't have mass shootings on the scale they have in America. It was heartbreaking to watch Marco Rubio and Dana Lousch defend a mindset that directly led to the murders of 17 people, and do it with no sense of responsibility or shame.
The father in the White House was right: your country is broken.
Fix it.
12
In reading this and so many other articles in recent days I have come to the conclusion that we are going about this the wrong way because all our entreats to the politician are going no where as long as they have already been bought and paid for. Their half hearted comments are not going anywhere because they have to answer to the boss and their boss is the NRA. We need to get our money together and fund candidates who will hear and protect our children. We need to get these old, paid for politicians out of office. We need to clean house. The NRA may have a lot of money but so do we. And the retailers who are funding the NRA - stop shopping at their establishments. There is so much we can do through social media and as we have learned it all starts with the pocketbook.
5
Yes, the swamp has not been drained.
Okay, what's the solution? There's a plethora of existing firearm regulation that are not enforced. Is enforcement the answer? Well that enforcement results in the grossly disproportionate incarceration of young black males for firearm offences that have absolutely nothing to do with mass shootings. There are hundreds of millions of firearms in the US. This means that the number of these used in mass shootings is so statistically insignificant as to be zero. Again, what's the solution?
1
What is this country coming to when we are astonished and impressed to hear common sense truths spoken to our politicians about the clear and present danger of weapons of mass destruction in our midst? The kids were great and I am hopeful that their views are widespread!
5
Since this shooting happened, I've seen articles on *four* other school shootings that have been averted. It's incredibly fortunate that they were, of course, but they easily could not have been. The access kids have to weapons *is* the problem here. When is someone going to do something about it? I live, work, and teach on a very open campus, and am afraid every single day that someone is going to come there and hurt people. Someone needs to help us! Please!!
1
When Rubio fears the voters more than he worries about NRA support, he will change his tune. Not before.
He is in office until January 2023. He will not pay attention to voters on his own account before 2022 at the earliest.
The way to send him a message is to start voting out NRA supporters, one after the other. Then he *might* notice. Maybe.
4
Much has been said about mental health problem, which is not a unique American problem, every other country has this.
It is the combination of mental health and availability of guns, especially the AR-15 type, designed for mass murder is the problem.
We need to re-interpret our second amendment rights in today's context.
Other countries such as England, Canada, Australia have solved this problem, we can also do the same if we have the resolve.
4
I have heard Rubio use the line before that the NRA "has bought into his agenda and a couple of things popped into my head as I heard him use the line again: for one thing, Rubio is a representative of his constituents, so the only agenda he should have is the one that best addresses the needs of his constituents. His constituents are asking him to do something about the proliferation of guns in Florida and beyond. Number two, other than making sure that guns, guns, guns are everywhere, what element other than guns does the NRA support that is on Rubio's agenda? Finally, Rubio's tendency to repeatedly fall back on lines that he believes are tried and true was exposed by Chris Christie during the presidential debates. Rubio may not need crib notes like Trump does to address issues, but as the father of one of the Parkland victims pointed out, Rubio's responses are "pathetically weak" no matter how many times he repeated them.
8
The only reason Rubio is a senator started during his first election when a know-nothing congressman from Liberty City entered the race with absolutely no change and spoiled former governor Charlie Crist chances. Rubio had money problems while in the Florida house and many here did not like him.
2
“People buy into my agenda, and I do support the Second Amendment,” Mr. Rubio said, repeatedly refusing to say he would stop accepting money from the group. “The influence of these groups comes not from money, the influence comes from the millions of people who support the agenda.”
If every NRA member lived in Florida they'd make up about 25% of his constituency. He's bought and paid for by the NRA and clearly doesn't give a hoot about anyone not sending large sums of money to his campaign.
2
Between Columbine, Sandy Hook and Parkland we have heard all the arguments. We know what needs to be done. Republicans have won numerous elections because they are one issue voters. We have learned from them that if we truly want change, we too must become one issue voters and gun control is the issue. The change begins in 2018.
3
If stricter gun laws wouldn't make a difference, as it seems Rubio was trying to assert (in exchange for his soul), then why not ban all assault weapons? We don't need to hear about plastic tips or plastic handgrips. We need to hear about catching up with the rest of the developed world.
2
The NRA states that ALL money it raises through its many sub-groups and websites (e.g. on law and training) goes to fund the NRA itself -- a 501(c)(3) tax-exempt charitable organization whose donors (corporate, foundation and individual) can claim a tax deduction. But it is illegal for such an organization to engage a significant portion of its activities in politics OR to endorse a candidate in any election. The NRA repeatedly endorsed Trump before and during the 2016 election. Both the NRA and the IRS continue to ignore the law and enable this mockery of a "charity," which seeks the most uncharitable goals of any not-for-profit organization in the nation.
Ms. Loesch and Mr. Rubio showed up. Good for them. Mr, Scott, true to form, did not. He has been a no show for the people of Florida for most of his tenure.
Ms. Loesch and Mr. Rubio got yelled at and were unable to defend their stands on assault weapons. That makes sense since there is no morally sound defense for these weapons. For a politician who's job it is to protect his constituents Mr. Rubio's position is essentially ethically insane.
Ms. Loesch is a hired gun for the NRA and has no one to answer to other than the NRA leadership and the people who continue to pour money into that organization.
I hope each and every republican politician is questioned closely on their cynical, but apparently highly profitable, support for assault weapons and the NRA.
I believe that they should be sued for malfeasance when they are proven to have assisted in the sale of assault weapons to people who have no legitimate reason to own them.
What's a military assault weapon? That's an easy one: it's a gun that can shoot more than 1 bullet a second or that can be set to automatic firing.
Happy Marco? Definition problem solved. Now get to work and do something useful.
4
Hey, elections have consequences. Marco clearly wants to maintain the flow of donor cash into his wallet. First he said he was leaving the senate, then when he realized the cash would stop flowing, he did an about face and the people of Florida got over it, and voted him in again. I can't fault Marco for desperately wanting to stay relevant. What I can fault are the people that continue to re-elect people like him. Facebook and bots can only do so much, voters are still responsible for the choices that they make. So let's hope for smarter choices in the future otherwise we are all going to reap what we have sown.
3
The kids know what it's going to take to change the laws. It's going to take a broad based, sustained and single-issue focused campaign in the mid-terms (and beyond) to vote against any candidate who, like Rubio, is willing to accept money from the NRA. Period. The NRA has reduced our politics to this: Either you are for them or you will be the recipient of their wrath come election time. Okay. Game on. We need to respond accordingly. If a candidate doesn't pledge to vote for gun control across the board, and refuse to take blood money from the merchants of death, they are on our list for retirement or seeking another line of work.
1
There cannot and will not be any easy and quick solutions to the violence in this country. After all, guns do not kill people; people do. One thing I know (and so do most of us - the silent majority, common-sense, middle-Americans) is that communist-style gun control is NOT the answer. I am for providing guns to every able-body and mind adult (18 and above) at schools, campuses, work places of Our Great Country. This needs to be coupled with gun training, target shooting, and mental calmness training, so the hands were steady and the eye unblinking and focused as they take out the bad guy w/ a gun. This is the only plausible way in the country w/ 300 M private guns (and counting).
At least Rubio had the courage to show up, which is more than we can say for Rick Scott and countless other so-called "elected representatives."
If AR-15's were suddenly defined as legally permissible to be brought into the halls of Congress, there'd be a law outlawing it before anybody finished reading this post.
4
Rubio almost takes his last quoted statement to its logical conclusion-doesn't make that final leap though does he?
If the absence of high powered magazines would have made it less lethal what does he think the absence of high caliber guns would have done-created more deaths?
Senator Rubio, you realize, don’t you, that virtually all the seniors will be old enough to vote by November? And that the others aren’t far behind? And that this phenomenon is nationwide? Perfect storm in November!
5
You can't sell your soul only a little bit. Once Rubio and Loesch decided the money was good enough and the job was cushy enough to wash off the blood from a few hundred murdered children, then what's an hour or so of being heckled by grieving parents and traumatized kids? It's all in the game. They played the part they were paid to play in the NRA strategy, down to Rubio's pantomime wavering on high-capacity magazines - something carefully planned out ahead to give him a veneer of moderation and to create the narrative that he's his own man. He's not. He was not present at that town hall in any meaningful sense. He's not open to being convinced. He's open to being pressured, and he's open to being bought. To be convinced, or moved, or converted you still need a soul. That's long gone for those people. Long gone.
2
Everyone, including the most rabid second amendment advocates, agree that we draw the line somewhere with regard to individual ownership of weapons. Everyone would agree that individuals shouldn't own artillery, or tanks or missiles or anti-aircraft weapons. Isn't it entirely reasonable to include powerful assault weapons as well?
1
I sincerely hope that these students will continue to be as motivated to effect positive change in the American gun control laws in six months' time (or longer) as they are now. We've seen the outrage that swells up each time there is a mass shooting in the US, only to have it die down in a few days' time. So many times before. (I thought there would be change after Sandy Hook, how could there not be? But, of course, the republicans stood fast against any positive changes.)
I have a little glimmer of hope, this time, that the students will be the one to effect change - because many of them are so close to voting age, and they are clearly motivated. They are able to understand that the 2nd Amendment in no way referred to anyone, let alone someone who is younger than 21, having access to guns of mass destruction. These students are smart enough not to be swayed by NRA propaganda. I just hope they have enough stamina to keep their movement going. I hope they will be the salvation of the U.S., because after all, it will be THEIR country in the future.
Please do not let this be yet another seven days' news cycle. Follow the students as they continue to speak out. Don't let their outrage die.
3
"The influence of these groups comes not from money, the influence comes from the millions of people who support the agenda.” Oh really, Senator Rubio? So the NRA spends millions of dollars each year trying to elect certain politicians and defeat others, and they are wasting their money because those ads have no effect? Thank goodness he was not elected president, because he is either the most naïve person in the world, or he thinks we are.
2
All these politicians that will continue to take NRA money need to be voted out. Rubio is correct that the law is not perfect & the definition of or rather correct description of the broad term "assault" weapon needs to be changed but that is a ludicrous reason not to start with a basic law that can be amended & improved. It's the same argument about health care - it's imperfect so instead let's not insure anyone!
I guess some lives are not worth saving since we can't save them all!
2
In the light of this tragedy, I hear so many on both sides of the issue using the phrase "mental illness" used over and over, as if mental illness could be diagnosed by a blood test. Only those with many years of training and experience can do so.
But what we need to remember is that the overwhelming majority of those with mental illness have no propensity for violence. Most are no more likely to commit a gun crime than someone with severe arthritis.
In my opinion, if we are to get serious about mental health checks, we need to start with the "gun nuts"and other NRA and gun proponents.
2
The position that the 2d amendment protects an individual's right to own a fully automatic military-grade weapon for personal use is ludicrous. Does anyone stop to think about why it took until 2008 for a gun rights case to declare the 2d amendment protected an individual's right instead of the right of citizen militias to own guns? Because for the first 200 years no-one doubted the city, county, or state's right to regulate (not prohibit entirely) gun ownership. Even wild west sheriff's could confiscate guns from townspeople if they felt it was necessary. It is only with the rise of the NRA's political power that this legitimate right of government has been challenged. Do we have a First Amendment right? Of course, but it is also regulated by time, place, and content. The same power of government to regulate 2d amendment rights should be obvious.
Senator Rubio has done absolutely nothing to address our nation's gun violence epidemic during his time in the Senate - in fact, quite the opposite. After little first graders were mowed down with an assault weapon in Newtown, he voted in 2013 with the NRA and the majority of his fellow Republicans in opposition to expanded background checks. In 2016, after more mass shootings, he voted again against expanded background checks and even voted against keeping those on the terrorist watch list from purchasing guns. In January 2017, he introduced legislation to weaken Washington DC's gun laws. And in February 2017 he voted to repeal an existing rule that required the Social Security Administration to disclose information to the national gun background check system about certain people with mental illness. The time sensitive effort (under Congressional rules) to repeal the Obama era regulation was a TOP priority of the new Republican Congress and was one of the first measures signed by President Trump. And after the Orlando mass shooting, Rubio incredibly said "this could have happened anywhere in the world...unfortunately this was Orlando's turn." No, Senator Rubio, this in fact does not happen anywhere else in the civilized world except in the US -- and the only difference is the easy access to firearms in our nation. And the idea that towns (or schools) in the US should be accepting that it is their turn for such a massacre is outrageous.
4
"She said the group opposed raising the legal age for purchasing an assault weapon to 21 from 18, an idea that Mr. Trump had earlier signaled support for." Whatever. Let's none of us lose sight of the fact that assault weapons do not belong in ANYONE's hands, regardless of age. Ownership of assault weapons must be banned for all.
2
Rubio responded well but the audience wanted to hear only one thing, that if the gunman had had no gun there would have been no loss of life. They did not want to hear about gun rights. They did not want to hear about balancing risks with rights. When people feel like that they are not going hear anything that does not resonate with how they feel.
People like Marco Rubio, Dana Loesch, Wayne LaPierre, and the NRA are beneath contempt. I'm thankful for the students and parents who are calling them out on their lust for power and money over human life. It's about time. These students have shown more courage and integrity in the past few days than the entirety of our media and political leadership in my lifetime. THIS is leadership. I can't wait to vote in November.
1
oh Marco Rubio is opposed to the bill because a loophole "allows 2,000 other types of guns that operate the same same " does he? well how about if he closes the loophole to include those 2,000 types instead of rejecting the bill outright?
Or is that too sensible for him ?
2
Mr Rubio says there laws on the books that would prevent school shootings but they aren’t enforced. I say to Mr. Rubio that there are laws on the books that speak to abetting a criminal act. In my opinion, excuses and not legislating against the crime of the Florida experience is clearly abetting a criminal act.
If a citizen witnessed a criminal act being perpetrated in his community and did nothing about it, that citizen would be subject to penalties of the law. Why are our “representatives in Congress” not subject to the same penalties?
1
Dear NRA,
I am a husband and a father.
I believe in the right to bear arms.
I also believe in time.
The dictionary defines time as, "the indefinite continued progress of existence and events in the past, present, and future regarded as a whole."
The words "continued progress" stand out to me.
Without "continued progress" time ceases to exist.
You do not believe in "continued progress" with regard to the Second Amendment.
Time disagrees with you.
One of the many remarkable things about time is that it has never lost an argument.
So, at the heart of the gun-control debate is a fundamental divide.
One side (let's call that side "The Universe") believes in the nature of time.
One side does not.
I assure you, only one side is right.
Time will tell.
Ms. Loesch called for getting guns out of the hands of "crazy people." That sounds fine to me except how do you define "crazy." It is neither a medical nor a legal term.
If crazy is being divorced from reality and wishing harm on others, how about all those right wing talk show and web site hosts who are accusing the students speaking out for gun control as being actors hired to do so. Or the congresswoman from NY saying that mass murderers are Democrats. Or a president who claimed his predecessor wasn't born in the U.S. and wired tapped him. Or someone who represents an organization that holds the lives of Americans so cheaply.
And a question for Rubio and Loesch. If the answer to a bad man with a gun is good guy with a gun, how come you can't enter any of the Congressional officer buildings or the Capitol or the White House, all of which have plenty of heavily armed guards abound, with a gun. And although I've never been to NRA headquarters, I bet they'll not just let anyone walk in with a gun.
I was surprised about one thing. The NRA was rightly criticized but I don't think any of the speakers criticized the gun manufacturers who are really pulling the strings. Senator Nelson did mention the lunacy of the state of Florida giving a tax break to Colt, the manufacturer of assault weapons, to move there.
1
So, President Trump may have been right for once. Marco is indeed "little," though not nearly as little as the president himself.
1
"Mr. Rubio sought to explain his opposition to a proposed assault weapons ban. The bill, he said, is riddled with loopholes that would make it easy for criminals to get around."
By this logic, what's the point of having ANY laws on the books? The speed limit is 65 mph, but people break the law, so what's the point of establishing it in the first place. There are laws against robbery and rape and arson, but people still ignore those laws, what's the point of even passing them.
It's amazing how the self-proclaimed "law and order" party doesn't have much faith in the efficacy of laws.
2
"Diane Wolk Rogers, a history teacher at Stoneman Douglas, confronted Ms. Loesch by asking her to defend the idea that allowing the suspect in the shooting, a 19-year-old, to own an assault rifle represents “a well-regulated militia” as is written in the Second Amendment." Bravo Ms. Rogers! At least you understand the insanity and "out-of-touch-reality" of the Second Amendment. Other countries make fun of us because our culture is so obsessed with guns and the so-called "right" to own one. What about our students' right to a free, safe and secure education?
1
The 2nd amendment was written when it took about 2 minutes to load and shoot a rifle or handgun. The patriots who drafted it cannot have contemplated today's arms any more than they could contemplate the concept of mass murder. It is well past time for congress to take action to control pubic to assault weapons.
I hope the students and parents will register every student in every school in every state in the US, to vote when they turn 18.
These students could be the "single issue voters" that it finally takes to make NRA political money and support thoroughly toxic to any and all politicians across the US.
What if guns aren’t the problem to the incredible murder rate in the US relative to other industrialized nations? What if the problem is more deep rooted with factors including TV, movies, video games, and the endless glorification of the military (which hasn’t won a war since 1945 in case anyone is counting) as the prime drivers?
Drugs are illegal and aren’t hard to get - any time, any where, by any one. This would lead to the logical conclusion that even if somehow guns became illegal they would be bought and sold on the black market just as easily with little net effect on their use in illegal activities.
People also need to watch less TV and movies if they are serious about arming teachers - these are (typically) underpaid public servants - not action heroes - and would obviously be the first target of a shooter, would likely mistakenly shoot innocent students during the chaos of a mass shooting, and almost certainly would shoot innocent students on accident (notice how police kill over 1,000 people a year in the US, why would teachers be any different?)
1
You are 100% right.
Americans, on both sides, crave these easy “solutions” that don’t exist.
Making something illegal will give you less of that item but only from law-abiding citizens. Anyone willing to even entertain the idea of a mass murderer is not a law-abiding citizen and wouldn’t follow any type of ban.
If I had to guess why this happens in America and not other countries it is because we are no longer a unified society that shares values and goals. We are a divided nation in so many ways and it sickens me that we view political opponents as this existential threat rather than a friend who doesn’t agree with us on everything.
Teachers being lock and loaded is President Trump’s way of shirking the government’s responsibility to protect its citizens by offering this security panacea. What it does do is sell more guns, exactly mimicking the NRA’s talking points. No levelheaded teacher would accept the role of sheriff in their school. Our government has failed our children and they are afraid to have the conversation necessary to reverse that failure. It is a sad day when our kids ask for help, the adults give them the same tired rhetoric they have for years upon end, and whisk them on their way, hoping they disappear into the fog of lies that they have dishonestly perpetuated with financial help from their NRA friends. I pray kids will not be diminished by the incompetence they have witnessed firsthand from our President and Congress, and instead, use it to further their resolve and move this country in the direction they would like to see it go. Us older folk seem to have thrown in the towel. The kids need to pick up the ball and run, run like the wind.
"People buy into my agenda", Mr. Rubio claimed last night. That may be true. But if, say, a drug or human trafficking cartel would, for whatever reason, buy into Mr. Rubio's agenda, would he take their money? "Of course, not", he'd vehemently proclaim. "Those are criminal elements." So, here's my question to Mr. Rubio, "If an organization that willingly allows the sale of assault weapons by anyone 18 years and up, be they mentally ill or not, and those same weapons are then used to kill youngsters between the ages of six and eighteen while they are in an academic setting, is that organization, in essence, also a criminal element?"
The NRA is clearly a failed organization at what was once considered a primary part of its mission, Gun Safety in America. An A rating by the NRA on any American politician should only be considered a mark of shame and cowardice to American voters.
I urge these students and all Americans to push legislators to enact policies that are known to work to reduce gun deaths, not just banning bump stocks but policies similar to the ones in place in Australia, Scotland and Canada.
Mr. Rubio, my question to your last comment in this article is this; How is 'less lethal' okay with you? If there had been only four murdered children in Parkland would that have been more tolerable? Which four would have made it okay?"
The truth of the matter is that we do not have a need for a 'well-regulated militia' in this country at this time. We haven't for a very long time. We need to stop using the Second Amendment as a right to be able to own weapons that can annihilate our children and our neighbors.
1
There have always been guns. What has changed now with so many young men that they are resorting to this kind of violence?
1
Since "mental health" is the great concern here, perhaps only mental health professionals should have the ability to give a "prescription" to own a fire arm.
1
Marco Rubio is really, like so many GOP senators and house members, unfit for public "service." Here's why: they don't serve the public. They serve the likes of those who fund their elections. And in this case the sinister NRA. The students at Lakeland are heroes. I am wondering if this might be the point at which high school students throughout this country will become very involved in the 2018 elections, most especially if there are enough candidates in the Democractic Party willing to take on the NRA. That is my hope.
Dana Loesch's attempt to reason that efforts should be better placed on keeping guns out of the hands of "crazy" people loses that argument with regard to the Las Vegas shooter. What were the red flags with him? Was he reported to any agency? Did said agency not follow through on a tip? You don't have to be "crazy" to have an agenda. Agendas with intent can be just as deadly.
1
Hooray for the people in Florida. Why has it taken so long for victims of these tragedies to stand up to Congress and the NRA? These people quite obviously were not interested in sacrificing their children for benefit of the NRA and Marco Rubio. But, the NRA and Marco Rubio are, along with many, many members of Congress. What a tragedy, what horrible people these politicians are. And, then we have what we call a "President" go idiotic by suggesting that we arm teachers and shoot back. Words cannot describe how stupid that is.
11
The parents and family members of the victims of Sandy Hook stood up, testified before Congress, and it got them (and us) nowhere. The family members of the victims of the Las Vegas shootings stood up, marched, and demanded action, and it got them (and us) nowhere. There was some measure of hope that the "bump stock" would be banned, but Ryan & Co. put and end to that notion. The Southerland Springs survivors and family members stood up, but the Texas legislature is too tied to the NRA, so nothing happened. I could go on and on, but it isn't something new for family and survivors to demand action only to be shut down by the NRA-owned / controlled legislators and pundits. They've gotten nothing more than "thoughts and prayers", and Parkland is only the most recent evidence that thoughts and prayers are worthless in the face of an AR-15 or similar weapon.
One wonders whether the American public when confronted with logic on this issue really supports the extreme notions of the NRA - or are the gun advocates simply a lot louder and better financed? Also, there are two elephants in the room so to speak that nobody wants to address:
1. Why do people continue to misread the 2nd Amendment? No constitutional lawyer would ever argue it was intended to permit unfettered access to guns. It should also be read in context. I seriously doubt Madison or any of the other drafters intended to allow AK-47s in the hands of every 18 year old.
2. Why are there no exhaustive studies on the cause of gun violence. A corollary would be why do we not look at the fact that other nations with far stricter gun laws don't seem to have the widespread problem we have with mass killings? We ought to look at their models and learn something. It is not about population size, because the pro rata difference is astounding!
10
The intended purpose of the Constitution is enumerated in the preamble. It follows that everything contained within the Constitution should be interpreted within that context. The third stated purpose of the Constitution is "to insure domestic tranquility". Please explain how allowing civilians to possess assault rifles somehow contributes to domestic tranquility?
1
To answer your second question, Congress has prohibited the use of federal funds to study gun violence. Clearly, Republicans are scared of the potential findings.
Here's what drives me bonkers. Dana Loesch can sit there and talk about mental health all she wants, but she is nothing more than a paid shill for a product that, at the end of the day, was designed to kill.
And as a result of this killing technology, Americans are expected to literally alter the course of their lives. At the Town Hall, It was proposed that schools be redesigned; that bullet proof glass be installed; that more armament might be necessary as a deterrent. Dana Loesch sits and pontificates on the NRA report issued, and its suggestions to increase safety. Again: safety from a product that the NRA has done everything possible to get into as many hands as possible.
This is a social madness. I get that some Americans want to have a gun for protection. But for others, gun ownership is a hobby. Still others want guns because they fear the government. And yet, the social fabric is expected to bow down to the gun, unlike in other industrialized countries, and let someone's avocation run or ruin our lives.
Just as when the tide turned against smoking as a public health issue, many Americans found that they could do without their cigarettes. And I'm willing to bet that the American gun hobbyist could likely find another outlet to fill his, or her's, spare time.
The CNN Town Hall consistently showed the gun manufacturers' products, and the culture it promotes, as somehow more important than people. It was good to see these amazing individuals push back.
20
Given that most Americans do not own any guns, one could argue that those who must have a gun for self-protection may be a little paranoid, i.e. have a mental health issue. What does that say about the mental health of the 3% of Americans who own half the guns? (True collectors of any item generally collect rare and unique items; other “collectors” are more akin to hoarders.)
So the NRA may be correct in saying this is a mental health issue. If so, then the NRA should look first at its most strident supporters, the very ones that it says should not be allowed to have guns.
10
We need to kick every single politician that takes money from the NRA out of office. We do that by voting, financially supporting other candidates and showing up.
Let's show up for all those kids who will never be able to vote for candidates that believe that their lives were important.
12
A massive advertising campaign needs to go out NOW through November to convince voters that political candidates who accept NRA donations are not in the nations' best interest because they will stonewall all attempts to stop AR-15 attacks on civilians throughout the coucntry. Identify both incumbents and challengers who accept NRA funds.
Judge any suggestions taking both the FL high school shooter and the NV concert shooter (over 50 killed; hundreds wounded) into account. Will changes reduce the odds of both incidents from recurring? If not, they are necessary but not sufficient. The country deserves better.
7
any politician who appears on TV, radio or public meeting on the issue of guns must first be asked whether he or she take contributions from the NRA. If the answer is yes, they should immediately be labeled as biased and their views should be discounted. Why would you ask the opinion of someone who is being paid to pick one side?
9
Considering that it is reported a friend of Putin's donated over 30 MILLION dollars to the NRA in 2016, what should be asked is "Is the NRA really an American organization?" How can you claim to be "For Americans" when you take that much money from a Russian? They aren't giving you 30 MILLION dollars because they want you to keep your guns! They are BUYING your heart and soul to divide the country. If anyone else had taken that much money from a foreigner, red lights and sirens would be filling the air from all the republicans. Why is this allowed? Why does a Russian want to buy you? Not for a good reason, you can bet on that. I wouldn't want to be in Wayne LaPerrie's shoes when the bill from Russia is called.
The control and censoring of public health research is again being scrutinized: In 1996 Congress passed an amendment to a spending bill forbidding the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention from using money to “advocate or promote gun control.” Congress lowered the CDC’s budget by the exact amount it spent on such research
The National Rifle Association supported the amendment, after public-health studies suggested having a gun in the house increased risk of homicide and suicide. The Dickey Amendment (after Jay Dickey, a congressman from Arkansas) has remained in place. Dickey told reporters in 2012: “I wish I had not been so reactionary.”
U.S. Senator Martin Heinrich (D-N.M.) called for repeal of the Dickey Amendment two days ago.
8
Real and adequate control of guns will come only when there is critical mass that off-sets the power of the NRA. The power of segregationists in the South was not overcome until it became untenable for them to retain power by holding on to their beliefs. The same was true of the tobacco industry. The students of Florida and the rest of us must persist and keep our “eyes on the prize”.
6
All representatives that do not conform to gun control should be thrown out of office next election cycle. We have for too long put up with "thoughts and prayers" without a shred of action. Republican and Democrats alike should take note that the time for change is now.
5
I don't think that anything will happen until a member of congress loses a child in this horrific manner.
This is not a suggestion; I just think that taking campaign contributions from the NRA would suddenly become unthinkable to all involved.
In fact, why don't we have public, government funding for all political campaigning in this country?
Everyone would have equal access to greatly diminished funds, which would make the entire process more fair.
Why should people who make money selling guns have so many politicians in their pocket? Follow the money . . .
3
The President recommends arming teachers and other school staff. He asserts that then potential shooters would not dare go into a school where they might get shot. Two comments: We know some shooters plan to be killed after they do their rampage. But also, something else I have not heard anyone say: shooters who want to survive wear military style protection, and they would not be easy for a school staff person to stop. It is infuriating to hear the President spout these NRA talking points, which he sounds as if he actually believes them, naively. And the bottom line, we do not need to have fortress schools. We need to quit subsidizing the profits of the gun manufacturers with ours and our children's blood. We need to cleanse this country of guns only appropriate for war.
4
The only thing that Rubio deserves credit for is showing up. As far as his and Loesch's stand that stricter laws wouldn't have prevented this, we will never no because those laws don't exist.
Yes if someone has an evil intent in their heart, they will find a way to do it.
However the best thing we can do is to make it as difficult as possible for them to succeed, it might not stop all of them but even if it's just one, because one is better then none.
2
Since Trump was elected, Democrats have had only a single national issue to resonate in the 2018 elections: Criticism of Trump. That simply may not be enough to turn things strongly in the Democrats’ favor.
Because of the Parkland tragedy, and the clarion voices of the students from Marjorie Stoneham Douglas High School and their parents, the Democrats must now advocate for strong gun local and national control laws the primary campaign issue in the upcoming midterm elections. That would include stronger background checks of would-be gun-buyers, waiting periods between purchase of all guns to actual possession by the buyers, and most importantly the elimination of the sale and possession of semi-automatic weapons like the AR-50, a weapon of war that has no justifiable place in our civilian society. The vast majority of Americans would support this platform, and Democrats should immediately be shouting it from the hilltops.
Trump’s advocacy of teachers being trained and armed with guns to protect schools against shooters is ludicrous on its face. It would result in the sale of millions of additional guns and additional shootings in the very places where guns have no place.
3
They might as well hand a gun to a nurse or doctor and tell them to protect the hospitals. Teachers and health care providers for the most part do not have the mind set capable of taking a life. Everyone must start reporting the "strange" things they see. Sure it will mean innocent people will be questioned by police, but if you see someone buying four pressure cookers and twenty pounds of black powder; you know they aren't working on a new recipe for the Food Network!
These students are doing a wonderful job.
It is reported that over 70% of American voters favor more restrictive gun laws. These Americans in general must get behind these students. This is an opportunity to achieve a major breakthrough.
From the students perspective, Dana Loesch is a perfect spokesperson for the NRA: the more she talks the more ridiculous the position of her organization becomes. It is It is clear that Marco Rubio does not believe in anything other than getting reelected. If he starts to sense a major shift in sentiment on gun laws he will fold like a cheap tent.
16
Another profile in courage from Donald Trump. Rubio got to try out his arguments and discovered it was very different from squaring off with giants like Ben Carson and Rick Perry.
5
Prohibiting assault weapons is crucial in limiting mass shootings, but let's not forget to address regulating hand guns which are the primary weapon of choice to terrorize, maim and kill people across America. Getting hand guns off the streets is an important next step in changing the Wild West nature of America.
When I traveled to Europe in the early 1970's and told people I lived in Chicago, many of them would immediately pretend with hand gestures and rat-a-tat-tats they were shooting a machine gun and then say, 'Yes, of course, Al Capone.' I would remind them that Al Capone was a product of Prohibition in the 1920's, five decades ago and that machine guns and other automatic/semi-automatic weapons were not part of our society. Today, five decades later I would sadly respond differently.
13
Everywhere that gun laws have been liberalized to allow citizens to carry concealed weapons has resulted in a dramatic decrease in violent crime. Being a defenseless and willing victim is what Bruce proposes. And that folks is un-American.
Perhaps you can cite the actual studies that support your assertion? I would love to see a credible study not authored or affiliated with the NRA, that reaches this conclusion.
This logic of using guns to "protect" oneself is an elusive one for me.
Do we not pay taxes and "buy-in" to the general civil protection provided by law enforcement in this country, no matter where you are in this country? Has the GOP suddenly abandoned law-and-order rhetoric that Trump and his cronies crooned about during the election? Do they not "respect" them enough to protect the citizens of this country?
And even if you assume that this make complete sense, then why do you need an AR-15--a military-grade assault weapon--to protect yourself?
12
You are wrong on so many levels it's hard to begin.
Police response is not available anywhere in the US and in many rural areas it can be measured in half hours, not half minutes. When you are the victim of a crime, seconds count.
As a citizen, part of your duty is to protect yourself. Otherwise you are nothing more than a subject.
An AR is not an "assault rifle". Never has been. In fact, it is a relatively low powered rifle as far as rifles go. Every hunting rifle sold is a derivative of a "military grade" weapon from sometime in the past. The fact you have never shot anything is pretty obvious to the knowledgeable.
The “AR” in AR-15 reflects that this weapon system was in fact designed to serve as an “Assault Rifle”. It is an empty and dishonest argument to parse the semantics of this nomenclature. The intent and the meaning is very clear to any honest study of the heritage of this weapon. The 5.56mm round was specifically designed to maximize soft-tissue trauma.
you know what would have also made the attack less lethal, is if no one could buy or carry those guns outside a shooting range.
16
The Parkland kids are my heroes. They are the definition of heroic. They put the NRA and the Politicians who trade in Fear, to shame. To SHAME. God bless these kids and their parents who are standing up to the real MONSTER, THE mentally unstable NRA and it's followers. These children are showing everyone in the country the definition of love. They're putting terrible GRIEF into constructive ACTION, using compassion in the face of evil and fear. May they keep having the strength to teach us how to act in the face of shear darkness and greed.
When will Americans start to love their children more than they love their guns and money? When are we going to understand that it isn't someone else's child that's been killed, and not ours? These are all, ALL OUR CHILDREN. They are our future.
26
Agreed. Time magazine should already be considering them for the person of the year cover.
A week after having their children murdered by a gun nut, I can't even imagine what it takes to get up and demand action while also grieving. And the fortitude and intelligence of the teenagers who witnessed it - it's inspiring. But we all have to think in terms of the next victims being our own loved ones and act as ferociously as these Floridians did. If the politicians won't listen then vote them out in November!
21
Very noticeably absent - Governor Rick Scott - who couldn't even be bothered to show up to support any side - another shill of the NRA;
Richard Corcoran, current Speaker of the House of Representatives, State of Florida, and an alt-right member, gun-toting open carry proponent running for Scott's office as Scott is term-limited. Also, no-show Adam Putnam, current Secretary of Agriculture - ardent, ardent NRA supporter didn't show up. Brags about how many thousands of new gun permits his department has issued during his tenure. Corcoran who shut down all discussion on the floor regarding gun control and led the way to deep-six a ban on assault weapons; basically pooh-poohed the Marjorie Stoneman Douglas' students views and positions. Also, has a horrible anti-immigration ad running starting out with a gun barrel pointed at the camera. Talk about 'crazies.'
Rick Scott is running against Senator Bill Nelson, who DID come and participate, for Senator Nelson's seat in November 2018 elections. Scott NEVER does anything that might jeopardize his political standing or his millions. He apparently thinks he's a winner. Pretty sure he will be disabused of that notion.
20
Rick Scott is the foremost rip government off to prove it is incompetent politician in the US.
Naming and shaming, citizens ... these are the only weapons (no pun intended) left in our hands by this corrrupt political system.
Naming and shaming! Don't give up!
16
Every public event, every memorial, every gathering that discusses gun control should be led off with a recitation of the list of those legislators who take money from the NRA. Everyone. Every time.
1
I give Mr. Rubio credit for showing up. But, that is as far as I go. As soon as he opened his mouth, he lost my respect. This issue of assault weapons ban has been around for years. Rubio claims that a current bill is full of loopholes. Then close them! He goes on to talk about the complexity of the issue. The simplify it! Do Something!!!!!!!!!
Just like with health care, the GOP reflects yet again that all they have done for far too many years is simply sit around and say no. Besides collecting campaign donations, what have they actually done in all the years they have been out of power? Where is/was the thinking?
This was to be their moment to shine. Instead, we get mealy-mouthed answers that are simply unacceptable. Dodges aren't solutions. Instead of taking a week-long break while most of us, if we were lucky, got only this past Monday off, this Congress should be back in Washington. Working.
At the very least, propose and enact legislation to keep our kids safe at school. Its the least you can do.
6
I'm getting so sick and tired by all these knee-jerk reactions that led to repeated inaction by the Congress, all of whom (like Rubio) are in the pockets of NRA. Every mass shooting is "different," and NRA seems to have an "answer" to each shooting. If it's someone who's mentally unstable, it's the crazies who should be stopped. If it's someone who's had criminal background, it's unfair to lump the legally binding citizens with the felons. If it's an underaged perp, then age limits is the answer. If none works? Then there is always the last resort of blaming the victim, or the Dems (for hiring actors to stage rally), to spread more fake news.
The saddest thing is, the NRA's diversion tactics, throwing red herring every which way, blaming it to something/someone else seem to be working EVERY SINGLE TIME. Why is it so hard to see it through, that the ONLY common denominator in all these mass shootings, was the guns, guns that are not meant for hunting, guns that are heavy arms even in battlefield? It's laughable, despicable even, for Rubio to even try to defend his position to oppose the assault weapons ban. He must've thought he has enough charms to work the crowd, unlike Trump who didn't even have the guts to attend the rally and answer questions from the people who are sure to ask angry questions.
4
Once again the NRA/gun industry shows off its nasty, vicious tactics in defending “gun rights” while making specious, often laughable, arguments that blame any one other that the Gun Manufacturers for the loss of nearly 33,000 lives year in and year out! There is no greater collection of fanatics and single issue people than in gun rights groups. They talk loudly about their misguided belief that they have a Federal Constitutional right to walk around society with guns, inclluding semi automatic assault rifles like the AR-15. Well there is no established right to possess an automatic rifle nor is there such a right to walk around in the public square with any gun! There is only one Supreme Court opinion which recognizes any 2nd amendment right, authored by Antonin Scalia holding that the 2nd amendment guaranteed a right to a gun -in the home and for self defense! No other aspects of gun use or ownership have been endorsed by any High Court opinion. But the NRA dishonestly pretends otherwise.
The NRA argues that the mental health system is the reason we have so much carnage in this country. But all societies in every part of the world have their own crazies and in the same proportion as do we.. The US is not different in the number or the treatment of disturbed people. But the rest of the world forbids widespread dissemination of guns of all types. And no other nation has anything even close to the number of annual gun deaths as do we. Arming teachers is absurd!
8
This morning at the CPAC conference NRA Executive Director Wayne LaPierre extolled "The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun" ,which clearly shows his belief that the answer to our gun violence crisis is more guns, ie. that every 'good guy' also be armed. The NRA is clearly on the wrong side of this issue and their political influence must be checked.
Wayne LaPierre equates Democrats or anyone left of the NRA as 'Socialists' who are bent on wanting to control the lives of every man, woman and child and take away all our Constitutional freedoms. He and the NRA feed the notion that we need our guns to protect us from a socialist tyrannical government. Like any good demagogue, he defines the solution based on a false premise.
When you hear the words uttered by NRA spokespeople you see that they are far more than just a gun lobby. They are a right-wing political force with a dangerous agenda. They embrace a nationalist view much like Steve Bannon. Anyone who does not share their view is labeled/smeared a 'socialist', a term LaPierre used over and over in his 20 minute long speech to CPAC members.
We need to ban all types of assault weapons by whatever name or description and we need to neutralize the influence of the NRA in our political affairs. To do that we need to vote for politicians who will reject NRA money and are committed to voting for reasonable gun laws/regulations.
10
I completely disagree with Mr. Rubio, not only on this issue, but basically on all issues. I think the man is a snake. But I will say this: he showed up. He showed up knowing he was going to be a punching bag. And I respect that.
I showed up to work today too, AND I actually did stuff. Where's my cookie?
2
He's supposed to show up. Giving these jerks credits for doing the bare minimum that their job demands is one of the reasons why we have so many jerks in D.C.
2
I found Dana Loesch’s constant use of the words “crazy” and “nuts” last night when referring to people with mental illness to be very unprofessional. No one who refers to mental illness that way should be taken seriously in any debate. Lots of “good people” and even “lawful gun owners” can and will experience mental illness at various times in their lives.
9
...and mental illnesses are of varying degrees. How do we know that Dana...a 'normal' person wont turn into a 'nut' 20 years from now? How will we know if she is a not potential killer, since she she already admitted that she owns guns?
Is the 2nd Amendment's "well regulated militia" preamble merely ornamental? Should our public servants be allowed to send their children to private schools?
4
Yes. That is precisely the argument Scalia made to assert the meaning of the second amendment is an individual right that cannot be unnecessarily encumbered by the State. "well regulated militia" has no more meaning than the section heading of an everyday contract -- literally. A magical interpretation -- all discovered by Scalia and overlooked by prior justices of lesser intellect!
Scalia was a true zealot who claimed constitutional meaning can only be found in original intent (his interpretation) -- then conveniently ignored original intent!
The founders never intended for a standing army of any size, hence the need for a well regulated militia that could be quickly commissioned. The founders were quite suspicious of standing armies and authoritative leadership -- the propensity to USE a standing army was deemed too risky to the welfare of the citizenry. So today we have a standing military - the largest in the world. So large it is a social welfare institution unto itself that must be fed! 50-60% of the military's annual spending is for social welfare programs.
Why have standing military/police forces if the basic rule of the jungle is "protect yourself?"
Scalia, the NRA and the many fleckless political hacks have hoisted upon America a truly unique compulsory lottery system: Being murdered by another gun-worshiping, low self-esteemed, white citizen. You're just a random casualty in their "perfect world."
America is the frog in boiling water.
The problem with the forum is that it turned into a discussion about school safety. This is about public safety...all of us... and therefore the discussion should be about guns and not about mental health-which is the deflection that the NRA uses.
Why doesn't anyone ask the NRA their theory as to why the deaths by guns is so much higher here in the US than anywhere around the world? Are we bad people? with no control? immoral? wild? NO....it is because there are more guns....remove the guns...and the deaths will be reduced....period.
5
Marco Rubio needs to start looking for another job because when he comes up for re-election he will lose the one he currently has.
4
No problem, he will still have his second job: NRA cheerleader.
These young people will vote and they will vote Rubio and Republicans out of office for supporting the positions of the NRA. I can not wait until November and pray that there will be no more mass murders before we can ban all guns that fire more than one round, if not all guns.
3
Inviting a spokesperson for the NRA onto the stage at a public forum is like inviting a spokesperson for the tobacco industry to talk about the suffering, disease, and death caused by tobacco products. It's a joke and an insult to the people attending the event. The NRA and the gun industry it represents care ONLY about making as much money as possible and will fight ANY efforts that would put a dent in those profits. Marco Rubio's coziness with the NRA/gun industry reveals that he is nothing but a shill for them. Shame shame shame.
3
You know how many of us are saying that mental illness is a red herring? Well perhaps the gun itself is a red herring. By which I mean, Republicans and even in the NRA don't care as much as we think about guns. They care about power. So they mutually scratch each other's back via the almighty dollar to make sure they keep it. At the heart of all this is money and power. Never forget.
3
Success of NRA is not about political clout/donation, which is a lot but not enough to make anyone win elections; but NRA's uncanny ability to transform deadly guns into a cult culture, into a life style, an ideology, a statement of status & power. NRA also created significant number of single issue voters. These people care only about gun.
Systematic destruction of our education & infusion of religion in almost every field (including higher education) made many Americans perpetually imbecile to understand even not so complicated data or analysis. Churches are also getting increasingly involved to promote gun culture & specific political ideology.
We all, who oppose American gun culture, need to confront that in a more aggressive way- as we did for tobacco lobby. Most such politicians, who support guns, do not much care about ethics or NRA. They would do whatever it takes to win elections. It's impossible to stop such gun violence
so long guns has a popular appeal among so many Americans.
Even though mass shootings get mots attention, it's a tiny fraction of death by gun culture. In 2014, out of 33,594 gun related death, only 14 died in such mass shootings. Most deaths were by suicide using a gun- 21,386. Then 11,008 homicide (killing other people with a gun), other- 1200 (Source- BBC)
Excessive focus on mental health is a shrewd diversionary tactics. There is no data to say that USA has more mentally unstable people than those countries with far lower gun death.
I won't believe a single Congress person's opinion until they allow guns brought in by random folks in the US Capitol and other state Capitols.
If they won't be for it, then they should tell us why.
And then you will see their lie threadbare.
Marco Rubio should be asked this question.
2
Campaign finance laws are the reason the NRA has so much influence with our legislators. It’s all about the money. Kids lives hang in the balance while our spineless Republican lawmakers rake in millions from the NRA. These NRA funded politicians need to be voted out in November.
4
“The influence of these groups comes not from money, the influence comes from the millions of people who support the agenda.” If this is true, why take the NRA's money? An ocean of lies!
4
Ms. Rogers, the History teacher, should be well aware that the 2nd Amendment has been around since 1792. School shootings have been around for what, 30 years? Maybe society should turn inward and look at itself and ask what has changed? The CNN forum last night, clearly a case of "fake news". It was a gross and pathetic display of fringe elements who are really only interested in taking guns away from everyone.
This kind of idiocy is terrifying.
VOTE THESE PEOPLE OUT OF OFFICE! Republicans will never choose the safety of the people over the money from the NRA unless they start losing elections.
6
I give credit to Rubio, at least he has the courage to stand up and face (some of) the heat from his constituents. Meanwhile, Trump and his sycophants cower in their offices and refuse to interact with the people they supposedly represent.
Rubio is squandering his last chance to shake his "also-ran" image from 2016. Support gun safety and the assault weapons ban, and lighten up on the out-of-date Cuba rhetoric, and he may gain some Republican traction to be a real leader when Trump is gone (sooner the better). That opportunity will not last long, Senator. I may not vote for you, but at least you're not demented, incoherent and open to Russian blackmail like Trump.
Mr. Rubio, the country isn't looking for gunman to kill less people because they can't get a high powered rifle. The country is looking for no shootings. What is your red line - 3 deaths? 10 deaths? 1 death? That's too many.
Trump said last night in his "listening session" that he would do everything to try and change background checks.
He already has. According to the February 20 LA Times article that Rachel Maddow was quoting from last night, Trump has done everything to undermine and weaken background checks.
1. He narrowed the legal definition of mental illness to make it more difficult to classify buyers.
2. He threw out tens of thousands of law enforcement records from the background system.
3. He slashed money from the budget that goes to background checking
4. When someone is a fugitive from justice, law enforcement people can chase him across state lines. Trump changed that rule. Now the criminal is only designated a fugitive if he stays in his own state. So if he crosses state lines, he is no longer a fugitive.
Trump got $30 million dollars from the NRA. Do you really think he is going to reverse all those things he has done. That's what the money went towards.
And by the way, a camera got a good shot of a note Trump was holding about talking points that he was using last night. #5 said "I hear you." He actually needed a crib sheet to tell the people in that room that he was listening to their pleas. What a slug.
5
Rubio is owned by the NRA. Semi-assault and assault weapons have no place in a civilized society. Protecting our children from predators is not an "infringement" of our civil liberties. The NRA and the congressmen owned by this lethal organization are cold-blooded killers.
5
RE: Rubio's lunacy: You can support BOTH the second amendment AND more gun control. These are not mutually exclusive. No one should get away with pretending they are. Subtlety, logic, and rationality are not the GOP's strong suite these days. Further, virtually all studies with data to address the question show that fewer guns = less murder. The only related difference between the US and other developed countries with far less gun violence is not worse mental health, nor underlying criminality, but access to guns.
1
Ms. Loesch interprets “a well-regulated militia” as anyone who “could operate and service their firearm”???? Wow, that sets the bar pretty low. That would mean all the people in prison who currently might not be allowed to own firearms should be able to have them. Imagine if we set the bar that low for all the other rules and regulations and laws and standards in this country! Why, I could be a surgeon, because I can move and clean a scalpel. Villians. Evil villains.
Giving Rubio credit for showing up is like giving anyone credit for coming in to work on a regular office day. It is his job. The ones who don't show up are cowards who should be fired by the public. As for all of Rubio's prevarications, there is only one way to address him. He has blood on his hands, as does the NRA. Until all of us use that phrase, no one will understand the magnitude of this problem. Children are being murdered for no reason. Everyone who approves the status quo is a guilty party and each has blood on their hands. Until that phrase is repeated over and over, politicians will hide behind their mendacity to (as Mel Brooks put it in "Blazing Saddles") keep their phony baloney jobs.
1
To vote these NRA funded politicians out of office, we need to use the NRA's own ratings list against them. The higher the mark, the more targeted that politician becomes. Make it into a bullseye on their backs (pardon the pun). The face of death, skull head Rick Scott has an A+ rating, for example. Put the energy into the A+ people who are up for re-election next. We'll get results. The result will feed upon itself until it will no longer be a good election strategy to have an endorsement from the NRA. The NRA influence can be easily overcome if people get out and vote them out. There really aren't a lot of NRA members, but the trick is to mobilize and finally get people out to vote.
I listened with disgust last night as Ms. Dana Loesch from the NRA tried to make herself seem like a sympathetic parent concerned about school gun violence. Nothing could be further from the truth. Ms Loesch is remembered for being the on-camera speaker in a vicious NRA advertisement blasting mainstream media, liberal politicians, educational institutions and gun rights opponents. She concludes the ad with the statement, "Our freedom is to fight these lies with the clenched fist of the truth."
What Ms. Loesch and Mr. LaPierre are witnessing now is the beginning of a tidal wave of outrage that will ultimately extinguish the NRA's flame and (hopefully) hobble the weapons manufacturers it represents.
To use Ms. Loesch's metaphor: "The clenched fist of American outrage is coming straight at the NRA." And none too soon.
Let's make the NRA and the politicians who've carried their water all these years pay for the pain and suffering they have inflicted on our country. Let's rid our society of these foul vermin and work to eradicate private ownership of all assault weapons.
21
Why doesn't the NRA allow guns into their conventions if more guns = more safety?
Why doesn't the GOP allow guns into their conventions if more guns = more safety?
1 word: hypocrites. Just follow the money...
14
Why is it all about Rubio's agenda? Shouldn't it be about his constituents' agenda? And they are speaking loud and clear,
11
let us vote those politicians who are in the pocket of the NRA out of the office, starting with Rubio.
7
Dana Loesch, Rick Scott, Donald Trump, Marco Rubio, Wayne La Pierre: all enablers of MWDs that destroy young adults in a venue that never guaranteed their safety. Extremly profitable semi-automatic rifle manufacturing must be banned in toto: no exceptions.
6
Nowhere in the rest of the civilized world do we see the mass shooting and casual gun violence that we have here in the USA. There are as many dangerous mentally ill people in those countries too. The only difference between those countries without mass shooting and the USA is that we have not banned military style assault weapons.
4
To the many who ask "why do we need gun rights in the first place?", millions of people in rural cultures throughout the US realize the responsibility to prevent petty tyrants from taking over the country. Let's be honest. The Progressives have a blatant agenda of genocide against rural cultures. Anti-gun rhetoric is largely inside that framework of "correcting" and disenfranchising rural cultures.
I don't know why anyone would consider this town hall discussion to be a success. What was clear is that gun lovers will not relent.
I watched it in despair, despite the wonderful enthusiasm of the students.
The mere fact that these kids, who lost siblings and friends, have to plead and yell for change -- and are then faced with platitudes and opposition, is disgusting.
I want all guns banned, every last one of them. But right now I'd be glad to just get rid of assault weapons. It's becoming clear that is not going to happen.
We are a sick society.
8
What bothered me about Dana Loesch's language (crazy, insane, etc.) is her tactic of portraying the shooter as 3-eyed monster and implying that it should have been obvious to everyone that he was going to kill. In the case of this kid, there were lots of red flags...but not to everyone. The family that took him in thought he was doing fairly well.
Many years ago, my grandfather committed suicide. He was under therapeutic care and no one, not even the professionals, believed he would kill himself. My point is that violent behavior can't always be predicted, and in the US, where it is so easy to get an assault weapon...we know the consequences. It's the guns.........
6
Here are some questions I would like to ask the "N.R.A. official":
1) How many members do you represent? The NRA won't even publicly disclose that number. Why? Because best guesses are that it is only around 4 million. So she represents an extremest fringe group. To keep that in perspective, that is less than half the number of Jehovah's Witnesses (8.25 million).
2) What exactly are your qualifications to speak on this topic? Being an "official in the NRA" is like me declaring that I am an "the CEO of walking to work". Having an immovable set of dogmatic opinions on a subject does not make you an expert and should not entitle you to participate as a leader in important public debate.
3) If child murders are the "price we have to pay for freedom", then why doesn't the NRA at least show the photos of the dead kids on their website and acknowledge that they died for the freedoms they value? These deaths are the price the NRA is willing to pay for this liberty - the least they could do is acknowledge the cost.
11
The AR 15 itself and its ubiquitous availability are the problem. Any attempt to deflect these simple facts to better locks, armed civilians and mental health is NEA propaganda designed to prop up our NEA marinated legislature. There is no effective way to screen out the deranged. The only way the to decrease the effectiveness of mass murder is to remove the weapon of mass destruction.
6
True.
And what happens when a “responsible gun owner” falls on hard times and/or has a mental breakdown?
Removing the AR 15 solves part of the problem, a big part. However, the "responsible gun owner" who "falls on hard times and/or has a mental breakdown" will still possibly find a way but a considerably less effective way.
The midterm elections are a long way off, and by then many people will have forgotten what happened in Parkland. They'll have forgotten the role Republicans and the N.R.A. played in this tragedy and forgotten the names and faces of the kids who were senselessly slaughtered in Florida and elsewhere.
If you're outraged now, you can do something about it. Remember in November.
5
Imagine if slaughter like we saw last week in Parkland happened every week or day. Would these same people defend the right to buy an assault rifle. What if dozens of children were murdered as often would their position be the same? I hope for our citizens sake the momentum continues till we come to a solution.
1
Rubio and the NRA are right; guns don’t kill people, money kills people! Clearly, Rubio doesn’t want to be separated from his money. Yet, he gives lots of lip service regarding issues of life. There is no logical argument to dissuade the pro-gun activists. The reality of the situation is, however, clear: innocent, defenseless Americans are dying needlessly and increasingly at the hands of gun owners.
At one point, slavery was legal, women could not vote, and there was no childhood labor protection in America. These things were not questioned or debated. People had to die to end slavery and suffragettes and child advocates had to take to the streets. The nation’s moral, legal, and philosophical realities had to evolve and change. Another such time is at hand now! There are no substantive reasons why private citizens need the right to own firearms, anymore than they should own slaves, abuse children, or disenfranchise women voters. The NRA has NO argument as to why citizens need to kill. If guns are made illegal then ANYONE who has them is a criminal. There are no websites nor media reports acknowledging thousands of “good” gun protection stories. Think about it. We’d know. This is the time for America to join the rest of the civilized world and disarm. The firearms industry would have to begin to make plowshares instead. Otherwise, the myth of American exceptionalism is merely a narrative of murderous barbarism. We all deserve better than that!
6
I guess the NRA is just showing us what the true cost of liberty is. If the sticker price is too high, no one is forcing you to buy the car, at least that’s what they say.
I find it hard to believe at this point that anyone believes Congress is interested in intelligent thought or doing the right thing. It is clear that Congress is intentionally blocking any gun legislation as too many are controlled by the NRA. It's not even the money Congress receives, rather their grades or report card that the NRA produces on each of them. It may make the difference of any of them being reelected. Now that's power! Instead, let's bring down the NRA- Putin style. Viral fake news, sex scandals, frivolous lawsuits, the IRS. It must be a popular movement as Congress is both immoral and impotent.
2
The Baker Act was apparently applied to the shooter's younger brother AFTER the shooting. Why wasn't it applied to the shooter BEFORE the shooting? Was the criteria met based on what was known to auhorities? Or did it not apply?
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/nikolas-cruz-younger-brother-co...
Marco Rubio deserved all the booing and jeering he received.
11
With an ever growing sense of revulsion, I watch Marco and Wayne one cowering and the other frothing. They have made it clear that if we are going to find sanity we need to exclude the cowardly and insane from the discussion. Yes, Mr. Brooks I am also talking to you.
4
May the humiliation he suffered in that exchange be all that history remembers of this spineless little man, but far more important: may the voters recognize in Marco Rubio the prototypical sleazy seat-warmer that now exemplifies the Republican party.
4
Repeal the 2nd amendment. Has outlived its usefulness 100 years ago.
6
Report Card:
RUBIO:
Attendance: A
Performance; F
RUBIO- “The influence of these groups comes not from money, the influence comes from the millions of people who support the agenda.”
Well, Mr. Rubio, there are many more millions that want assault weapons banned (67% of the country). You continue to accept blood money from the N.R.A.
Mr. Rubio, Mr Scott (F- attendance/performance), Mr. Trump (F- attendance/performance), et al., you are on the wrong side of history here.
4
There is another important point to made be here not being discussed is that because they tend to support democrats, Republicans just don't like teachers, bottom line. All one has to do is look at Republican states like Wisconsin, while systematically cutting back on public education funding, their legislators have gone out of their way to demonize and marginilize teachers and their unions. It is really no surprise and accident they do not have much sympathy and support for public schooling in these states nor the people who are in charge of them. The ignoring and lack of empathy for these students should also come as no surprise from a predominately Republican controlled Florida legislature who honestly think porn is more dangerous than firearms.
Betsy DeVos is just exacerbating the problem.
5
NRA spokeswoman Dana Loesch says "people who are crazy should not be able to get firearms". Well I think Wayne LaPierre is the craziest of them all. He goes off the deep end with every school and public shooting, why is this crazy person allowed to define gun ownership for all of us in the US?
1
A suggestion to the New York Times: Please conduct a poll as wide as possible asking people if they support ban military type weapons to be held by civilians. My guess is tha thd majority will answer YES. If our politicians really represent us, then they must ban these weapons from civilians if the answers were YES.
2
The discussion on guns is tiled toward insane gun lovers from the start! Focusing on large magazines, bumpers, mental health, etc. is pandering to extremists. There is no reason why ordinary citizens should be allowed to carry guns. This is the most idiotic “right” and I don’t care if it is in the second amendment. Guns kill. They kill their owners more than anyone else’s but they also kill others. The right to carry guns should be eliminated. If you want to shoot, you should be allowed to rent a gun in approved ranges only. If you think shooting is fun— no problem— shoot all you want in the range! If you belong to a group that need guns for protection, you should apply for license (not given the right to have one as a default).
I think that national gun control laws should be put forth in measures that are voted on directly by the people. Stop letting these weak azzed lawmakers make the rules because all they really care about is money. Only if one of their kids gets shot will it start to make a difference, but then again, they may just feel that their kid should have been armed...
There is no test for crazy.
2
I don't know, leadership in the NRA is a good one.
So is being an R in Congress.
GOP=NRA=Mass Shootings. Vote them out of office if you want a different kind of society. Other developed countries don't have this problem, so we don't have to reinvent the wheel.
4
Let's call a spade, as spade. The NRA and those that oppose gun reform are complicit to all these senseless murders. Sadly, our politicians couldn't care less given their cushy lifestyle and remoteness to these tragedies.
Vote Rubio and all of the Republicans out. They have blood on their hands.
4
The only "insane monsters" are those who would characterize the Second Amendment's provision for a well-regulated militia to mean granting a gun license to anyone who “could operate and service their firearm”. And then there's the money: ALMOST $43 MILLION TO THE "TOP" TEN SENATORS ALONE, but of course $30 million from NRA to *resident *rump
$3.3 million from NRA to Rubio
$7.7 million from NRA to McCain
$7 million from NRA to Burr
$4.6 million from NRA to Blunt
And so on...
2
I hear a lot of talk there. . .
However, the only real solution to the issue in that town hall would have been the angry mob dragging both men into the streets to face a makeshift guillotine. That would be a start.
1
The proof of the pudding is in the tasting. That is, to say that a politician's attendance a such a town hall meeting is welcome would depend on the follow-up. I don't see any meaningful follow-up to this meeting, leaving me with a very bad taste in my mouth. Such meetings, carefully timed, can be a variation of deflection--not moving away from the evil process but moving it onward. Slick and sick. So if no meaningful change, people, hold the course of voting out the political stooges.
18
The senator said that there could be evidence from the Florida school shooting that suggested the gunman might have killed fewer people if he did not have high-capacity magazines.
“It wouldn’t have prevented the attack, but it would have made it less lethal,” Mr. Rubio said.
One wonders why Rubio finds it impossible to ban high-capacity magazines. From his response, making an attack less lethal is acceptable to not having an attack at all. Try banning military rifles like the one used at the Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School, which is designed to kill as many people as possible.
28
I can give you hundreds of thousands of reasons why Rubio is incapable of feeling or thinking logically and empathetically about this. It was just for times like these as to why the NRA wrote all those checks to his campaigns. They made a big investment and they have now come to collect.
Those compassionate members of the GOP/NRA. So concerned with mental health all of a sudden. Shall we look to see what happened to funding for mental health care over the past several months.
Oh well, that was in the past. Now they know that they want to focus on the issue of mental health; now they want to take care of them (although I shudder to think of what that care would look like).
Just wondering, now that they are so concerned with mental health, are they going to provide him with the care that he needs, or are they going to insist that he receives the death penalty?
24
They could start with their president, for example. He is nuts.
I'll give Senator Rubio and Ms.Loesch partial credit for at least showing up. Nothing for Gov. Scott who apparently had better things to do.
Here's a thought, Senator. If you can't define "assault weapon" then let's ban any gun that can accept a magazine that holds more than 2 rounds. That would include assault rifles and all sorts of semi-automatic hand guns like the Glocks that only the police need. Seriously -does a civilian need a gun that fires 11 rounds?
23
I agree with you and the assault weapon definition is easily overcome no matter how many times it is invoked as a dodge. The NRA had no trouble at all in calling most of these weapons, including all semi-automatic variants of the M-16 and AK-47 "assault rifles." In the 1980s they were frightened of regulation and tried to rebrand them as "tactical rifles" and forbade the use of "assault rifle" as a term on their website. I\
It is such a pity that this lobby has the power it does and such a pity that the U.S. cannot ban and buy back semi-automatic rifles the way Australia did in 1996. This issue and this president make me embarrassed to be an American.
Why does anyone need an assault weapon? And if Rubio lost a child in a school shooting or this lady from the NRA, would they still say the same thing? It’s so depressing and I just feel so helpless.
29
Here is a basic question I would have liked to have heard asked of Marco Rubio: If it was your kids who had been killed at MSD Hight School, would you still be offering 'thoughts and prayers' and accepting NRA money?
27
If you want to see how badly we need campaign finance reform, look no further than the contortions that Sen. Rubio went through to halfheartedly sympathize with victims and their families, while offering a full-throated defense of maintaining the crazy notion that people should be able to own killing machines because that is how he gets paid.
The solution to all of this nonsense is to put a prohibitively high federal tax on assault rifles, to be collected at the point of sale regardless of whether the sale is public or private. The 2nd amendment is intact, hunters and most target shooters are unaffected, and we keep the guns out of most of the would be mass-shooters hands. Sure, the Stephen Paddocks of the world might not be stopped, but the Nicolas Cruzs, David Patrick Kelleys, James Egan Holmess, and Adam Lanzas likely would be.
15
Go ahead, New York Times. Keep it up all you closet gun banners. Demonize the millions of Americans who own guns. Demonize the millions of Americans who have joined the National Rifle Association because they believe in the right of self-defense. Continue to shout the myth that politicians support gun rights because of NRA campaign contributions when it obviously is the other way around. Continue to say that concealed carry makes crime go up, when the facts are that concealed carry is associated with a fall in crime. Continue to ignore the rape victims who now carry a gun. Continue to say that the eight million owners of Americas most popular rifle are evil for having the gun. Continue to argue that a focus on mental illness is just an excuse to not impose strict gun control.
Go ahead. And watch the Republican party keep the Senate and the House in November.
2
I must be missing something on the news because I have yet to hear about a woman hauling out an assault rifle to protect herself from rape. It you could be show me a couple of examples, maybe I'd give comments more weight.
1
I don’t agree with a single thing you said. However, like Marco Rubio, I’ll give you credit for “showing up” in a forum where most likely 99% disagrees with you.
I accept the 2nd amendment as a guarantee of the right of law abiding citizens to own guns. For me that is a given.
Now I ask you some questions.
What are you and the NRA actively doing to prevent guns from getting into the hands of the dangerously mentally ill?
What are you and the NRA actively doing to reduce the amount of guns stolen from law abiding gun owners?
What laws are you advocating to achieve the above? What approaches, at a personal level, are you doing to reduce the illegal use of guns?
Do you oppose a requirement that guns kept in the home be securely stored, unloaded, where children and thieves will find it difficult to reach them?
Do you oppose mandatory training in safe gun practices?
We continually hear about “second amendment rights” as though they were rights extended by God, such as life, liberty, or the pursuit of happiness. The “rights” exists only due to a flawed interpretation of the second amendment by several judges, some of whom were clearly politically motivated. Any literate person upon reading the second amendment can see that the right to bear arms exists only in the context of militias, or similar ‘well regulated’ military organizations, such as those protecting the frontiers during the late eighteenth century. The Constitution always has been a living document. The Supreme Court, previous to District of Columbia v. Heller (2008), held that the second amendment concerned state militias (National Guard) and not the individuals right to carry guns. The Supreme Court has made many bad decisions in the past and changing course on this clearly was one of them. This decision has had a very adverse affect on public safety as is evident from the gun violence with which the public must now contend. Other amendments in the Bill of Rights have been interpreted and reinterpreted over time with changing needs and understanding of the world. As with other bad decisions made by the Supreme Court, District of Columbia v. Heller likely will be overturned or modified in the future, if our country ever regains its sanity.
18
"Well regulated" means that governmental regulation of firearms is a Constitutional requirement for allowing someone the right to bear arms. The Second Amendment is very clear but it has been distorted so that gun industry can make obscene amounts of money selling weapons for mass murder.
The best post I read thus far and I confess the same argument I have made for many years. I urge people to read Richard Posner's, the conservative law professor and judge, piece in the New Republic years ago explaining how there was no serious legal reasoning in these 5-4 decisions and that they were ideologically motivated nothing more.
Unfortunately, these egregious rulings are unquestioned and treated as orthodoxy and that despite the fact that there is still considerable latitude for gun regulation which is in no way prohibited by those decisions. And most the gun nutters haven't even read them and are wholly unfamiliar with the fact that Scalia in writing the majority decision said the right was not absolute and that governments might well consider regulating guns in "sensitive areas such as government buildings and schools." Why doesn't the NRA note that in their favorite decision?
I would like to ask you, have you ever been outside the United States? where Life, Liberty, and pursue of happiness doesn't exactly exist? though, there are a few things that people share throughout the world, not many people have the luxury of saying that those are god given rights that they exercised, that's why they come to America.
Tell that to the Syrians, and see what they say about it. tell that to the Venezuelans. you are only able to say the things you are saying because you have rights provided to you by the constitution and the fact that no one will ever challenge it, since you know, they would be met with lethal force.
There is one another solution. Let them have the guns and regulate the ammunition. No ammunition sold online or at gun shows, only at a licensed dealer after background checks. A limit on how much ammo you're allowed at one time. No clips that hold more than five bullets, no 50 caliber, no Black Talon, no armor-piercing will be sold at all with possession of these being a felony. Don't think there's one word in the 2nd about rights to bullets.
12
The members of Congress are too comfortable with their club with perks paid for by the taxpayers and campaigns financed by the NRA and Koch brothers.It makes them feel as though they have power they do not have.An energetic campaign by committed voters can end this comfy life style.If they do not listen to reason and enact legislation favored by the majority they can be voted out and look for a real job that does not threaten the lives and well being of American citizens.If they say it is complicated , point out that it is not rocket science.Ellon Musk has figured that out and developed reusable rockets and it didn't take him that long.
6
The NRA is correct on one point.
Yes, progressives and Liberals want to take away your guns. Definitely!
Just not all of them.
We want to take away your handguns, which have no purpose other than to shoot other people.
We want to take away your semiautomatic weapons, especially those not even remotely useable as for hunting purposes and those easily converted to fully automatic.
We are eager to have you keep your hunting and sport shooting rifles and long guns - rifles with manual bolt or lever action and a magazines with a five bulletin maximum size and bolt action or pump shotguns with a three shell maximum magazine. Anything more is unnecessary for hunting.
Deal with it!
22
Ban anything that can fire a bullet more rapidly than once every 15 seconds. That would have given 16 of those 17 dead kids enough time to run or to tackle this attacker. I think 15 seconds isn't too much to ask.
1
The Second Amendment was not conceived by American founding fathers to protect a right to bear sporting arms. In fact. among other things, the founding fathers recognized an inalienable natural right to protect oneself against any unlawful threat by any means available. Availability is paramount so deal with it.
Please let this be the turning point. The absolute and total lack of balance in has gone on for far too long. NRA says no new gun laws when we have high profile mass shootings 3-4 times a year and lower profile mass shootings almost every day? You have got to be kidding me.
15
Rubio is Slick. He know full well it's about the money the NRA funds his campaign. If he said he would renounce money from gun advocacy groups that money would go to someone who would Primary him and he would have to go to work like the rest of America. It's about Money and holding on to their elected office. Until these young people are able to vote and get others to register and Vote, Nothing will Change. Once a NRA "AAA" supporter is voted out of office Then Change will Come.
9
These politicians should keep in mind that 18-yr old students can vote in the 2018 mid-terms. And, the 16- and 17-yr olds will be eligible in 2020. Will the students remain motivated? Many will. Look out Marco and others who court the NRA.
16
One wouldn't say that Rubio had much by way of brains. He's served mostly as a puppet for the Trump wave (after opposing DJT in the elections and losing badly in his home state as a presidential candidate in the primaries). His attempts to increase the child credit in tax reform couldn't disguise the fact that most of the breaks went to large corporations and the very wealthy.
It's useless to expect Rubio to do anything about guns. Even if he wanted to take real action, he's so feckless that he couldn't get any legislation passed.
11
It is strange that the NRA and politicians who support them cannot see the harm that their positions are doing to society and to themselves. Looking only at the AR-15 it would seem obvious and reasonable that it be banned or otherwise modified so it could not be fired at or near the rate of a fully automatic weapon. Bump stocks, for instance, were used by the shooter in Las Vegas and allowed him to kill and wound so many. You can "Google" how to modify an AR-15 to achieve fully automatic and find any number of video instructionals (if they haven't been taken down now). When modified and AR-15 is an "assault" weapon and yet the NRA and the politicians do nothing. It is such a shame as my father was a life long member of the NRA, he and I reloaded ammunition and shot lots of targets, skeet and trap but I am quite sure he would no longer support the NRA's current leadership. Gun owners that I have known, including myself, are usually fairly rational, logical folks who I believe would support regulations that truly made America safer. We shouldn't bash the NRA's membership as their current leadership may be no more representative of their beliefs than Trump's leadership is of America.
5
I agree with you. I have seen many people complains about not being able to own bump stocks, like really? no one have a need for a bump stock, it should have never been made and it should of never pass AFT approval.
What will it take to bring everyone around to the simplest of solutions, i.e., stronger licensing and training for ANYONE who owns a gun (and that includes myself)? AND the removal of the AR15 (and similar) from civilized society! If one has such a great desire to use such a weapon, one should be enlisting in the military and putting one's life on the line as collateral.
Are we waiting until a more egregious event such as an armed group taking over a high school or college campus and slaughtering the entire school population? Would that be enough death to bring the argument to a culmination of rational minds? What is the number of innocent lives that will tip the balance?
Simply put: your HOBBY should not cost me my life!
9
The ban can be very straightforward. No weapon firing a .223 round and a magazine no larger than 5 rounds. I know the combat wanabees who dress up in camos and run around the wood shooting their 30-round magazines of .223 bullets and pretending they are bad dudes will whine and insist it is their RIGHT. Let's step back a minute and look at why would you want a gun. Hunting? OK, hows about a shotgun (5 round max) or a bolt action or lever-action 30-30 or 30-06?They will take down deer, bears, sheep and anything in between. How about target shooting? A .22 is a great gun for target shooting and if you want something heavier, again you have a 30 caliber weapon. Home protection? Unless you are assaulted by a squad (13 men) of insurgents, a .45 caliber pistol or better a 12 gauge pump shotgun would do the trick nicely. Sometimes you can't have things just because you want them if, like smoking, they endanger other people. And I DO know weapons - 3 tours as a Marine officer in Vietnam, a tour as a DoD contractor in Iraq and 1 year embedded with the Marine in Helmand Afghanistan. Safety for the children above all.
15
Richard:
Thank you for your well reasoned argument.
Thank you for your service, and for your contribution to the comments.
The NRA is one of the most powerful congressional lobbies in US history. They sell the idea that unlimited access to the most dangerous types of firearms is a reflection of liberty. They parade around self righteously proclaiming their interpretation of the 2nd amendment which is a freewheeling nightmare of endless mass shootings. Rubio was slammed for supporting the NRA and taking their campaign money. Rubio knows that the passions have always cooled over time after an outrageous mass slaughter. The NRA blames mental health issues which is hard for gun dealers or the public to know prior to a person acting crazy. With many states making it legal to openly carry firearms anywhere they please. This is a sign of personal liberty just allows a person to be armed an ready with the police unable to intervene.
3
The deflection by the politicians and the NRA focusing on "mental illness" as the underlying cause of mass shootings fails on many levels. It fails by increasing the stigma for those millions who struggle with depression, anxiety and schizophrenia, thus making it harder to seek treatment for fear of being labeled "nuts" or "crazy wackos". It fails to note that these individuals are statistically much less dangerous than the general public. It fails to note that this shooter did not have a psychiatric diagnosis and would not have been stopped by focusing on "mental illness". It fails to note that psychiatric assessment and treatment is seriously underfunded and jeopardized by cuts in the current budget. It fails to note that Trump undid gun restrictions on the most seriously impaired individuals who suffer from psychiatric illnesses. And it fails by looking for bogeymen rather than real solutions. It fails the test of common sense and intelligent policy.
346
And it fails to acknowledge that mental illness exists in all societies, but staggering death tolls from one mass shooting after another is almost uniquely a United States phenomenon. The difference between us and Australia, the UK and Japan (for example) is guns, not mental health.
5
It also fails to note that the Obama-era ban on sale of assault weapons was undone almost as soon as the trashy gold paint hit the Oval Office.
2
I wish those in the mental health field would join the gun control conversation and speak out on the points you raise.
Marco Rubio’s declaring his support of the NRA and assault weapons, in front of these grieving people no yet, clearly illustrates how deeply reliant and indebted politicians are who accept their money. Mr. Rubio, you may have money in your pockets but you have blood on your hands. I don’t know when he’s up for re-election but I hope Floridians send a message loud and clear.
20
What on earth does it mean to say, "I support the Second Amendment." It's part of the Constitution. It hasn't been repealed and isn't likely to be. The assertion that you "support the Second Amendment" is akin to saying you support the law of gravity. It's meaningless.
More meaningful would be to say, "I agree (or better still, disagree) with the Supreme Court's interpretation of the Second Amendment in Heller." We can have an interesting discussion about the amendment's meaning -- and about Justice Scalia's apparent abandonment of the English language in Heller. But saying you support the amendment itself is ridiculous.
16
Very valid point. Flies right over the head of a Rubio or the get-you-government-hands-off-my-welfare check low information voters.
It's telling that Rubio tag-teamed with an NRA mouthpiece to address constituents--they were essentially providing a united front against the reality of too easy access to military grade weapons.
He and other Republicans have refused to change their stance; they have made that absolutely clear. Begging, cajoling, threatening them will not matter. The only alternative is to vote them out. I had little hope for FL going blue at the state level but these kids are mobilized and many will be voting age next November. Plus the many people displaced from Puerto Rico due to the current administration's incompetence and indifference in handling their recent disaster, Florida may well be in serious play for Democrats at midterms.
10