So 6 million Poles were murdered in this Polish town in death camps built by the Nazis. In a country that never had a collaborative government with Germany. And the President wants to make it illegal to say the Poles were complicit with the Nazis. I don't get it... who is saying Poland was complicit when 6 million of their own people were murdered? Is he paranoid about something else? I mean, who is saying Poland was complicit when according to this article, they weren't . And if someone does say that, ignore them but support their right to speak.
6
Where is the UN resolution condemning the official Holocaust Denial by the government of Poland?!
15
Poland has had long-standing laws prohibiting Holocaust denial. It is only denying the ill-informed slander of people (perhaps people like you?) who want to say that the Nation of Poland was a partner in Germany's crimes.
16
My Polish Jewish refugee grandparents told me the Poles were the most viciously anti-semitic people on earth — and they fled Poland a decade before the Nazis came.
52
Im half Polish and Half Slovak. Pure Hunky, LOL. But I am ashamed of my Polish heritage as a result of this. My Polish Uncle was married to a Jewish woman, may she rest in peace. Her family disowned her for marrying a Non-Jew, another injustice. A pity that like the US, many chose to try to sweep their own Anti-Semitism back then under the carpet. And that Jews themselves are so overtly protective about their own bloodline.
12
Our Torah is 4,000 years old, & inscribed in our Torah are villains who oppressed Jews. The Poles will never be included in our Torah nor will Hitler or other butchers, but their deeds will be forever included in our history as those that were inhuman to their fellow human beings, and were complicit in the murder of 6 million people simply because they were Jewish.The current despots that rule Poland will be forgotten, & Jews will survive their deeds.
13
I agree with Yad Vashem that it is an historical misrepresentation to say "Polish death camps." There was no Polish government except for a token group in exile in London. The Poles suffered as much as the Jews with a roughly equal number of victims sent to the camps. Poland was in chaos and without a government as it was decimated by the Nazis and the Russians.
No doubt there were some Poles who turned in Jews to the Nazis. In a dog-eat-dog world, that is bound to happen. Though again, Yad Vashem has listed more than 6,700 Poles as "righteous among the nations" for saving 30,000 to 35,000 Jews. I imagine those righteous ones are of a far higher number than any who colluded with the Nazis.
The Poles and Jews--or Polish Jews and Polish Gentiles, for those who so define themselves--suffered equally in WWII and should move forward from that shared condition.
27
I would like everyone who is posting comments here, in good faith, to research history. Especially history of Poland and history of Polish-Jews. It is important to do this before making any comments. I would start with asking the questions why were there so many Polish-Jews? Did they prosper in Poland? How long were they in Poland? How friendly was the rest of the world to Jews? How big was the Orthodox-Jewish community in Poland prior to the war? Why? The complexity of relations between peasants, Polish-Jews, and the szlachta (nobel class). After that I would move to even more complex topic of Polish and Polish-Jew relations under the German occupation. The % of Poles who were complicit. Please research many different sources, read from Israeli sources, Polish sources, not just from newspapers . Compare, contrast make an informed opinion. I would also research the role of Untied States (or lack of) in stopping the Holocaust (look up Jan Karski, Witold Pilecki and many others). Ask why?
After that I would also research the role of United States in creating Easter and Western Europe (Yalta agreement).
Poor Germany overcame so much after the war! I would also research the reasons for such wonderful progress.
History is complex, making general uninformed comments is everyone's right (or is it?) To start read this and see how complex it can be:
https://www.academia.edu/32301232/The_Devil_in_Microhistory_The_Hunt_for...
31
Even the stones know that the extermination camps were conceived, built and administered by the Germans. The problem goes further: the activity of Poles who killed Jews and plundered their properties during and after the war. In 1941, when Germany invaded that part of the country occupied by the Soviets from 1939, Poles killed Jews without the participation of the Reich troops. Poland doesn’t need a “Death Camp” law! Its history is greater than this! The Polish resistance to the Reich was greater, by far, than that of the French and the Italians. The war cost the country 20% of its population. And three million Jews!
8
As a descendant of Jews who fled Poland decades before the holocaust, I find this law misleading at best. Polish anti-Semitism is well documented. The Poles were deeply ant-Semitic many decades before the holocaust. Millions of Jews fled pogroms instigated by the Poles. When will the Poles face up to their own long and history of hatred?
29
The law isn't about Polish anti-semitism, which existed (without denial by the Poles). The law is about pinning the was crimes of Germany on the nation of Poland because they occurred on Polish soil. Reading comprehension?
18
Pulling a shroud of darkness and guilt over current day Poland will not change the history of the past.
I question the intent of the NYT publishing many articles like these as of late.
If anyone, the Poles have also known true suffering.
14
The two sides argue past each other. One side says that "the Polish nation" does not share responsibility for the Holocaust. The other side says that there was "'direct or indirect complicity" of Poles'. Note: "of Poles", not "of THE Poles". The two positions, therefore, are not mutually exclusive. The problem lies in the nature of the particular party in power in Poland today. An American analogy might help. If, say, Donald Trump and his minions said that they wanted to "restrict immigration", what the rest of the world would suspect, rightly, is a racist or cynically political motive. But everyone agrees that immigration into any country cannot be unrestricted. The problem is the reputation of the person or party insisting on the policy.
3
Let's talk about "unrestricted immigration." A whopping 900 or so Jews fled Europe on the SS St. Louis and were refused entry into this country; they went back to Europe to be slaughtered.
"The Polish nation" was killing and expelling Jews hundreds of years before the Germans marched in. The end of the war didn't stop them; when Polish Jews tried to come home to their towns and villages after the war, many were killed by their Gentile neighbors. Google "Kielce" and go from there.
21
A grasp of history appallingly loose. The St. Louis was bound for Cuba, not the US. The US and Canada refused entry. Of 936 refugees aboard, 709 survived the war and 227 did not. Google St. Louis and go from there.
Continue on and Google "War Crimes Against the Polish People." Pre-war population, 35 million, post-war, 23 million. 60-80% of factories, infrastructure, towns, etc., completely destroyed. Of the 12 million citizens lost, 6 million were slaughtered in the German death camps. Half were Christian Poles.
16
I have recently returned from Poland and other Baltic-Germanic countries in the region. The atrocities that Nazi Germany committed (which includes the Poles, Czechs, Serbians, Slovenians, Hungarians, etc.) are horribly visible and still palpable. There is still obvious antisemitism evident everywhere, although less so amongst younger, educated Germans.
Any denial that these atrocities, permitted (and sometimes even nationally encouraged) by governments did not occur or were the responsibility of others is criminal. History cannot, and should not, be rewritten by holocaust deniers and neo-Fascists. When the world permits this, freedoms that were refined with the blood of so many will be lost, just as we are starting to lose them in THIS country.
21
I have no doubt that the law should have been vetoed by the President of Poland. That said, it would be better if Marc Santora, before writing an article about that law, read the law. There is no one word about "Polish death camps" in the law.
2
‘Not in My Name’ - I am just one of the millions of people in Poland who understand our painful history and are ashamed of this government.
These are so sad days for my country.
35
People forget that Poland was allied with Nazi Germany at Munich in 1938 when Czechoslovakia was dismembered. Poland even got some valuable territory in Silesia. Chamberlain rolled for the Poles and and within a year, Germany ( and the Soviet Union ) rolled over the Poles.
What would have happened if Poland had just said "Nie" in 1938?
14
Poles--Jews and gentiles--suffered mightily during WWII. It's about time that history takes into account the suffering that non-Jewish Poles suffered. Some 50% of all the Poles killed. Yes, there were collaborators, but Poles also fought bravely against the Nazis and worked tirelessly to gather intelligence on the murderous, Third Reich regime. It's time that historians were more careful about condemning Poland as a whole. However, there is an ancient but still virulent anti-Semitism in Poland that casts a dark shadow of the nation. Maybe there can be a balance struck where historians can both eulogize Polish Christian and Jewish victims of WWII, and be candid about the anti-Semitism that still exists in the country.
22
It's true that both sides suffered, albeit unequally.
8
It is a sad fact that many Poles, even today, are virulently anti-semitic. The point of this law is to relieve the obvious guilt of a large majority of the Polish nation for their treatment of Jews during the war by promoting this fiction that Poles had nothing to do with the camps. Poles nearby knew very well what was going on at those camps, just as the Germans local to Dachau and Bergen-Belsen knew. Thy both denied it because they couldn't bear the shame.
A quick story: I work in classical music and I had occasion some years ago to have dinner with an excellent young Polish pianist. Searching for a topic of conversation, I said how wonderful Poland's contributions to music had been. I listed Chopin, Paderewski... Rubinstein. At the mention of Rubinstein's name my companion practically jumped from his seat and snarled, "Rubinstein was no Pole, he was a Jew!" It was like a slap across the face. The legendary Chopin player of the 20th century, universally acclaimed as one of the greatest pianists ever, a devoutly Polish man, and this pipsqueak, a fellow pianist, presumably well educated and culturally aware, wanted no part of him since he was a Jew. Makes me want to cry.
43
Either the Poles were confidant co-conspirators or they were not. This is an issue of provable historical fact or it is not an issue - that's a virtuous and accurate way of looking at it, and thus the only way. Now, even if they cooperated in deed, they may be only as culpable as the Nazis who did not want to be Nazis but were ensconced in a systematic machine of terror and survival, both for themselves and for their families. We all want to be heroes and want those around us to be so; if this ere possible, there would be no need for the word and in fact it would have no meaning at all. Jews, today, who complain of Polish complicity with the Nazis certainly have a point, be it true or untrue, but what about the US support of Israel, carrying out systematic genocide in Palestine; what of the Jews in Israel who support this who for those who do not cannot make headway against the atrocities? What nation on Earth, today - especially with the power of the internet and the advances since Nuremberg is not guilty of complicity in debilitating sanctions on the hapless people of another nation, of military aid and direct military action crippling countries and destroying lives? There are few, but I am loathe to point out again - as I have, above - that whence the many of the influential Jews are (the United States), the horror just keeps coming in the Arab world - even if it is intended to be for good. And next, we have North Korea, which the US is itching to attack.
11
I really get tired of seeing right-wingers try to Brillo their hands and faces clean in order to further their ugly little plans for our future.
8
In Raul Hilberg's "The Destruction of the European Jews," one fact is made very clear: the Nazis didn't do it alone. They had help from their client states--Hungary, Slovkaia, Croaita, Romania--and help from the states they occupied--France, Holland, Belgium and, of course, Poland.
There were many Poles who riske their lives to protect Jews; there were far more who collaborated--sometimes with savage enthuiasm--in the slaughter of Jews. (In small towns, their favoite method was to burn the Jews alive in their homes and barns.)
The government of Poland can write all the laws it wants to silence its critics. It won't change history.
30
Anti-Semitism among the Polish people goes back hundreds of years. The Polish anti-Semites tried to drive Jewish people out of Poland in the 1800s, in the early 1990s before World War I and during the period before World War II. Whether or not Poland is responsible for what the Nazis did, Poland and the Polish people need to examine their history and acknowledge their gross anti-Semitism over many, many years. The elimination of the Jewish people from Poland is something Christian Poles have applauded for years, and was not just caused by Nazis and their death camps.
28
Now the US can claim it has nothing to do with crime against Palestinians and blame Israel.
5
Right or wrong politically/morally, Poland’s ‘Death Camp’ Law reveals a global change in perception about the Holocaust and the State of Israel.
The State of Israel is today a wealthy and militarily powerful country in the Middle East. The Israeli political leadership became arrogant and disdainful of world public opinion.
Poland's death camp law is perhaps the beginning of a new era for the Jewish people and the State of Israel.
3
So, let's pretend that you are the eldest half sibling and have needed to act fatherly in your mutual father's absence, and you have always resented and browbeaten your much younger half siblings; beatings, assaults, terror. Now your father returns home and beats you and instead of fighting back, in order to save yourself, you in turn chose to hand over your siblings (who you have always abused for decades) for physical, mental, and sexual assault to your bully father, who actually lights them on fire...are you complicit? Do you share a bond? Are you a victim?
This is not an absurd analogy. People, please remember how to critically think, and not P.C. history. It's as bad as censorship..i.e: like burning books under Nazis, the church...REMEMBER?
3
As pointed out by others there was no "Polish nation" during the time of the German occupation of Poland and it is appropriate for the Polish Nation State to act against those who would libel it. However, passing laws making free speech illegal is not the right course of action. My suggestion would be for the Polish State to pursue civil action to sue for damages. There is an alarming rise in efforts from both the right and left to limit free speech, even in the United States.
So, there was no 'Polish nation' during war? Well, in this case the Polish nation could not claim the suffering during the war. How could non existed nation suffer?
9
Technically there was a Polish government in exile during the occupation of Poland and even for a period of time after the German surrender, but the point is that there was no Polish government in place and in control of Poland to be held responsible, except to the extent of actions by people acting under their instructions. A "non existed nation" did not suffer. People suffered. It is important to know that vast numbers of people, particularly Jews, were murdered because of how they were categorized, but it is also important to remember that each of them was an individual, a person who experienced their own suffering and their own murder.
7
Hit them in their wallets. Major corporations should threaten to not do business in Poland or stop hosting trade fairs or conventions there. This approach was very effective in the US in states like North Carolina and Indiana. Poland should know that this behavior will cost them dearly.
11
It comes as no surprise how attempts by politicians anywhere in the world to re-write history receive the scorn and dismay of most historians. Numerous American historians bemoan Trump's incessant lying about his past and American history in general.
6
Always helpful to see Rex Tillerson lecturing other countries about truthfulness and freedom of the press.
21
According to an NPR report on this topic, Obama started the issue when talked about the "Polish" concentration camps. These were not Polish camps but rather NAZI concentration camps located in Poland. I believe exact language should be used in discussing these factories of death, but leave it to Obama to say something inexact, out of context, inappropriate, and without empathy for the plight of these helpless people. Thank you.
6
Blame Obama? Seriously? Every survivor I've met from Auschwitz, Treblinka, Chelmno, you name it, has spoken of "Polish death camps." The difference between Poles and Germans and their treatment of Jews? Sorry...ain't none!!
19
Oh and you think there were no anti-Semitic Poles who zealously collaborated with the Nazis?
17
Beyond noting that it's always fun to see right-wingers bounce back and forth between screaming at NPR and depending on it, maybe we can pass a law making it a Federal offense to blame the hallowed South, the heroic Jefferson Davis, the saintly Robert E. Lee, the blessed lynchers of Goodman, Schwerner and Cheney, the patriotic Strom Thurmond, and the Klan of Nathan Bedford Forrest for racism, slavery, Jim Crow and segregation in any way, shape or form.
9
Recently an American traveler told me about her recent visit to Warsaw, where she learned from her Polish guide about the Warsaw Uprising (1944) but not about the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising (1943). This confirmed the impression I had during my 2010 visit to Warsaw: the Polish people want us to know how much they suffered, they don't speak of, or don't remember, what happened to the Jews in the middle of their city. But in 2014 the POLIN museum opened, and they now make this statement: "Passing a law that may exert a negative influence on historical research, that is on searching for the truth about the past, is not a good solution...We are not responsible for a past on which we had no influence. However, we are responsible for what we do about that past today. Above all, we owe the truth to the victims of past crimes, and the truth is fueled by an open and factual discussion."
21
Poland did have a choice like Bulgaria and Holland. InsteD Poland chose like France, to murder their jews
12
Yes, the Polin Museum opened in 2014 on Land donated by the Polish government and with that same government covering the 90 million zloty cost of construction.
Additional contributions came from throughout the world, with the single largest individual contribution made by a private Polish citizen, Jan Kulczyk, who donated 20 million zlotys.
The Ministry of Culture and National Heritage as well as the city of Warsaw donated 90 million zlotys each.
So 390 million zlotys plus the value of the land from these four individuals/groupsa.
The consolidated donated of the Jewish Historical Institute which collected funds worldwide was 145 million zlotys.
The museum was not built due to the generosity of the Jewish Diaspora - it was built because Poland and it's citizens believed it to be a valid commitment to and about its history.
9
Here is the text about Polish resistance from the website of the US Holocaust Museum in Washington, DC. Do you see any mention there of the Warsaw Uprising, organized by the Polish Home Army and the Polish government-in-exile,and the largest armed resistance mounted by *any* European country against the Nazis?
"The Polish Government in Exile based in London sponsored resistance to the German occupation, including some to help Jews. For example, Zegota, the Council to Aid Jews, saved a few thousand Jews, even though helping a Jew in occupied Poland was punishable by death. Yad Vashem has identified more rescuers from Poland than any other country—6,532."
Nope, neither do I. Although this bill is wrong-minded, I can't blame Poland for wanting to clarify that it was not a "eager participant," "partner" or a nation "complicit" in the Nazi Holocaust. Pre-war population of Poland, 35 million. Post-war population, 23 million. Let that sink in.
6
Reading this makes me sad as the once progressive and quickly evolving nation I live in is turning into an illiberal democracy with a dysfunctional government in which citizens do not have to right to discuss history. Quite sad.
40
And I thought that you were writing about the US until I looked again.
9
Poles have "Shared Bonds of Suffering" with Jews"? Surely, you jest!!
Poles were killed by Nazis; Jews were killed by both. Even after the war, Jews who had the temerity to come home to Polish towns and villages were slaughtered by those with, you know, "shared bonds of suffering." Look up "Kielce."
52
What have the religious leaders in Poland said about this horrid legislation? I especially seek to read what Catholic bishops wrote.
I have an idea the Polish Pope would have criticized if not condemned this cheap tawdry law.
(Rev.) Gregory Swiderski
10
The religious leaders? One of the reasons for Polish antisemitism was and is Catholic antisemitism. Poles were told for over a millennium that Jews killed Christ. My parents, Polish Jews, told me how the Catholic Clergy in their small towns would regularly make antisemitic comments to them when they were children.
21
Those who have visited Auschwitz after listening to relatives who survived, know clearly that many Poles, to this day, harbor the same religious intollerance towards Jews their parents and grandparents and great grand parents held. It is also well recognized that there were many Poles who risked their own lives to save Jews and others from their fellow Poles who shared Nazi ideas.
This new law will further the darkest nature in human beings by allowing Poles to selectively deny what is part of their history and thereby ensure this malignant cultural 'gene' grows stronger.
The country of Chopin is no more, and now it must face Voltaire-"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities". (In the words of American folk philosopher Yogi Berra: "It's deja vu all over again")
34
I can promise Poland I will say polish death camps and they can arrest me. Poles murdered my uncles and grandparents and put a couple of bullets in my mother’s back. Poland, you can arrest me first!
54
The best solution is to pass a law prohibiting everyone from mentioning nation or nationality when recalling the Holocaust, because the nations of nationalities of the near past, the present, and the future had nothing to do with those horrible events and it does not well serve the Jewish cause to tar and implicate them for the innocent.
1
How are they going to get around this?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holocaust_in_Poland#/media/File:Nazi_H...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holocaust_in_Poland
Rabid right-wingers are trying to say Wikipedia is "fake" news - that anyone can post anything on it. That is not true. If you don't believe it try to post something that isn't true - like Sarah Palin tried to change the Paul Revere ride to match her mistaken comments about it. You can't. Everything is read and edited for accuracy before it is posted.
Polish leaders were complicit in trying to get rid of every Jewish person in Europe. The horror of it is that they were so successful. WE THE PEOPLE of the world who believe in all humanity must not allow it to happen again. Not now. Not ever.
33
To make it a bit clearer to the reader....
There were 8 siblings in my parents' generation, all born between 1908 and 1920 who were alive in 1939.
Two were killed - one by the Germans and one by the Soviets.
One was arrested by the Soviets, charged with treason and sent to the GULAG.
One was taken prisoner by the Soviets and sent to the camps.
Two were seized and sent into exile in Pavlodarsk, of whom one remained there until 1946.
One was sent to Germany in a 'work detail'
That left one who 'simply' survived the war in Warsaw.
That was the experience of one Polish Christian family.
When I visit the Auschwitz-Birkenau Memorial I also recall the memory of my godparents. Genowefa and Jan, of Pani Marysia and Pan Aleksander, Pai Jasia and Pan Jan, Pan Erwin and PanI Emilia - who had married a Jew and when she refused to divorce him, he was shot in front of her.
To summarize - as a child I knew only two adults who had made it out via Romania to England.
As a child it appeared to me that the process of maturation involved being imprisoned by either the Germans or the Soviets.
None of this is ever discussed by English speakers. So perhaps the sensitivity is somewhat more understandable.
23
Deny it as they might but my father is a Polish Jew. He told me that the Poles were worse than the nazis. He and his family lived among them for years. They grew up in Poland. Their language was Polish. Thgey went to Polish schools. For all intents and purposes he and his family considered themselves to be Polish. Then the Poles turned on them.
I know quite a few Holocaust survivors who visited their old homelands. My father told me that he'd never, ever visit Poland.
73
My dad was also the only survivor of his immediate family from Poland.
He said that the Poles, Ukrainians and Lithuanians were the worst of the worst.
30
Your father is right. I wouldn’t pay the airport tax to land to visit a polish death camp
12
He also said that the White Russians; todays Bellarusians were okay.
4
The law states, if the article is correct, that it is illegal to state that "the Polish Nation" is to blame. Since there was no Polish nation from 1939-1945, thanks to the Nazis, the Polish Nation could not have been to blame for the Holocaust. The law makes a legitimate point.
Individual Poles turned in or tried to blackmail their Jewish neighbors; others sheltered them. But one cannot blame a whole nation for the actions of a few. Do we blame all Jews for the actions of a few?
Most Poles suffered; the article notes that 3 million non-Jewish Poles also died at the hands of the Nazis. Let us have done with collective guilt for the actions of a few.
19
The problem: it wasn't the "actions of a few". There were many Poles who turned on their Jewish neighbors; NOT just a few.
38
One could argue that the Polish Nation existed where and when the Polish State did not.
It is highly ironic that the actions of this Polish Government are both mirroring those of the Russian Government, and supporting the Russian Government's strategic interest in fomenting dissension amongst European Union members, and weakening the institution itself.
9
So much sorrow in the world. This kind of legislation only tarnishes future students' understanding of the past, because they'll rightly ask, why the desire for such a law?
13
why should the truth not be taught-I lived through the war and the sorrow. This man is the best of the best and he is trying to do the right thing.
1
History is cannot be legislated. Laws like this are the antithesis of democratic governance.
24
Regarding outlawing the term, "Polish death camps": there were many types of camps. Concentration camps, transfer camps, internment camps, deportation camps, etc... For example, Treblinka and Sobibor were strictly death camps. You arrived and were dead within the hour, under the deceptive guise of being processed, deloused and showered. Auschwitz was not strictly a death camp. Many survived Auschwitz after years of internment.
I agree "Polish death camp" is a bit misleading. Still, other countries had notorious camps, like Holland for example had Westerbork, which was more of a round-up & transit camp (a trip to Westerbork meant almost certain transfer east, and those transferred east were never seen again). though its called a concentration camp. Belarus, Croatia and Serbia also had extermination camps so the denotation of "Polish death camp" might only be appropriate when discussing specific geographic locations of Nazi extermination camps.
7
6 million killed, murdered!!!!!!! no matter what words you use-all those Jewish people along with others were killed. Period!
10
Yes and in that 6 million was a creativity that could have cured cancer, given us more composers and musicians to astound the world which we shall never know of. Polish death camps, polish murderers
9
Let's begin with this prime distortion. 11 million were murdered in the industrialized slaughter that was the Nazi Holocaust. Not 6 million Jews alone, but 11 million souls, Jewish, Christian, Polish, Slavic, Roma, homosexuals and others deemed disposable. Yes, Jews suffered terribly and were purged from every country, as we know, but let's not render 5 million people invisible.
In Poland, 6 million citizens were killed in the German death camps, half of them Christian Poles. And for Poland, that wasn't the whole story. Pre-war population, 35 million. Post-war population, 23 million. Let that sink in. 30 cities and 136 towns and villages bombed. 85% of factories destroyed, 66% of bridges, 80% of infrastructure, 30% of homes.
The push to criminalize speech and publication, even specifically excluding historians, artists and scientists -- as this controversial bill does -- is not helpful. But given the terrible toll the war took on Poles, Christian as well as Jew, I can understand why today they emphatically reject claims that the Holocaust was their doing or that the Polish nation was a partner in this terrible crime. The unreasoning hatred of people who want recast it as "Polish death camps, Polish murders" like Sue here are part of the problem.
11
A 'bond' between Poles and Jews? No offense to Poles or Poland, but my reading of history indicates that Poles were (with notable exceptions) were not all that friendly with Jews. Perhaps I should go visit the museum.
29
"Germany is the dominant power in the bloc"
Look at how amazingly successful Germany is now - despite all of the challenges it has faced since WWII. Yet Germany is not in denial about their prime role in causing the atrocities of the Holocaust. They have gone to great lengths to show what they did, to ensure it is never forgotten, and to change their ways. And despite that, or more likely partly because of their honesty, they are the most economically and arguably, socially successful country in mainland Europe.
65
Thanks for writing a superb letter.
9
Not surprised, there is no doubt Poland has a tragic history, the Germans invaded and her allies did nothing, then the Nazi/Russia non agression pact left it being bled by two countries, and after the war let Stalin basically take the country. And yes a lot of Poles died, both Jewish and Christian. And yes, more than a few Poles did the right thing and tried too help their Jewish neighbors, some losing their lives.
That said, it is also important that the truth be out there, that like most stories the truth is complicated and ugly. Poland like many countries in Europe had its dark side with anti semitism as did institutions like the Church, and it is an old history and in all cases it led people to do horrible things, because they didn't see the Jews as worthy enough. In 1918 Poland became a country, and the first thing that happened was a pogrom killing thousands; in between the Nazi and Russian invasian, Poles in a town called Jedwabne went on a murder tear, killing men, women and children who were Jewish. After the war, Jewish poles who survived the camps went home, and many were killed by their fellow Poles, who often blamed them for what happened to their country. Their anti semitism allowed them to do horrible things, the way some people's beliefs made them risk their lives to save people. Like the Church, Poland is trying to claim they were the victims,they had no choice, and in the process won't acknowledge their own failings.
32
The truth, whether Prime Minister Morawiecki sees it or not, is that there is undeniable, irrefutable and quite verifiable evidence of Polish complicity in war crimes perpetrated on Polish soil during World War 2. Perhaps it is more a question of whether he wants to see it or not. To pass legislation, or to even push for such legislation is Orwellian, because the very right of free speech and thought is under attack. There is no question some Polish citizens took great chances and helped to save the lives of Jews in hiding. So if we can speak openly about those Poles, why not the anti-Semitic Poles?
The truth, Mr. Prime minister, is that the Polish people have a certain percentage of anti-Semites. That can be traced back to the very beginnings of Jewish settlement in Eastern Europe. And, Mr. Prime Minister, you will have to look at your Poland today, if truth is what you seek, and acknowledge yes even today a certain percentage of Poles hate Jews simply because they are Jews. It is endemic to the Polish people.
41
It's just as plain that a certain percentage of Jews hate Poles today simply because they are Polish. Some are completely unwilling to admit history tells a story more complex and perhaps a bit different from their beliefs. I see no denial from Christian Poles that among them were those who committed crimes against the Jews.
What I don't see is much mention of the fact that some of those collaborating Poles were Jewish, although that, too, is undeniable, irrefutable and quite verifiable. If we can speak openly of those who suffered and died, why not those who sought personal advantage at the expense of their fellow Jews?
We should air the whole history, sure. If you read the law you would know the freedom of speech and thought are not under wholesale attack, and scholars, artists and scientists are explicitly excluded. But you are operating on your beliefs, without reference to the actual text. We also should refrain from painting an entire people, "The Poles" or "The Jews," with the broad brush of bigotry. Can we talk about what is "endemic" to "The Jews," too? Or would you find that offensive?
7
The discrepancy is huge between fantasy and reality. Poles love to tell themselves fictional stories about how much they helped the Jews. The truth is that if you talk to Jews from that time period, most of the stories you'll hear are about how their Polish neighbors turned them into the Nazis in order to take their homes and businesses or simply because of rampant anti-Semitism.
You can contrast the attitude of the Germans, who dealt bravely with their painful past and became a wonderfully progressive nation, and the Poles, who tell themselves tall tales to hide their cowardice and as such have never moved beyond their intolerant attitudes.
You won't find much love for the Poles amongst Jews and that dislike is well-earned. Until Poland faces it's history with honesty, it will forever be mired in hatred and backwards politics.
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Lets blow away the smoke, Poland & the Baltic Countries including Russia were no havens for Jews. Spurred on by the Catholic Church, Anti Semitism was common place. The greater majority of these slavic people were extremely religious & took the Scriptures literally. They pointed at Judas who was obviously Jewish as the betrayer of Jesus, & the Passion Play depicts all Jews as complicit in the crucifixion of Jesus. This is the biases of Anti Semitism.Whether or not, the History of Jesus is accurate is besides the point, What is taught in the Church is believed by the overall population of Christians in Poland & the Baltic States, which led to the Holocaust & the persecution of the Jewish population in these countries.As the Jews were eradicated in Poland & other Baltic Counties the Christian Population took over their property & businesses, which was in itself a criminal act.
The Poles & the rest of Europe cannot escape from history & proven fact, most were complicit in the slaughter of 6 million Men, Women & including 2 million children that were Jewish.
Anti Semitism is alive and well in the world.The double Standard that Israel has to contend with illustrates this fact.
41
Poland wants to outlaw denials of their dogma that Poles were not perpetrators of the Holocaust.
Germany, Austria, France, Canada and several other western nations outlaw the denial of the existence of execution gas chambers in Nazi concentration camps.
Until there is a vigorous protest of all attempts in every nation to legislate history and incarcerate doubters, dissenters and denialists, singling out Poland for opprobrium is hypocritical.
5
You don't see the difference between Poland passing laws to falsify history and Germany, Austria, France, Canada and others creating legislation to keep that from happening?
I would decry the former and applaud the latter.
21
What you call "legislating history" is in fact, protecting truth. Truth. A worthy, cherished (ever more so it seems) value we should aspire to know, we should coddle and protect. Particularly in today's world of make-up-your-own facts. Especially when we consider how powerful a role media plays in shaping our thoughts.
No, the days of free reign are over. Look at Henry Ford's Dearborn Independent. Malicious, horrid slander of the Jewish people. Even someone as powerful as Henry Ford had to be stopped. Today, anyone can be a Henry Ford. Look at that guy who started The Daily Stormer website. A little nobody. Suddenly he got millions of views after Charlottesville, VA. Those viewers, they are impressionable.
History, whose interpretation you are implying is up for grabs, is not. History, is simply a long string of truths put together over time. Thus, it is to be protected. Coddled. That means, yes, there will be a consequence to face if you publish denial of the Holocaust.
Your complaint seems to be only that the distribution of government intrusion is disproportionate to Poland. As in oh poor Poland. The much larger point, that the truth is being deliberately manipulated to serve hate agendas, seems utterly lost on you.
16
The Poles were both victims of World War II, and of the Nazis, as well as tremendous perpetrators of crimes against Jews, all within a culture which then (and now) had deep strains of anti-Semitism.
The more the Poles complain about it, the longer they will be held accountable for their denial. Those who know Jews of Polish ancestry have heard many, many stories of the crimes committed by the Poles against their own people.
Even to this day, a Polish Presidential campaign can begin with accusations that a candidate is secretly one eighth Jewish, with a retaliation that his opponent is secretly one sixteenth Jewish. That they would try to hide rather than confront their anti-Semitism is a large part of the problem here.
58
About six million Third Reich Germans were registered members of Hitler's NSDAP, each convinced of his/her "racial superiority" and viewing the Jews and the Slaves as "Untermenschen", who had to be exterminated. After the Nuremberg trials, thousands of high-level and medium-level former Nazis were let go free, mainly by the U.S. occupation authorities: the Cold War had started. Lately, whenever Third-Reich war crimes are discussed, only the term "Nazis" is used, instead of "Nazi-Germans", implying that the Germans and Germany had been forgiven for the evil deeds of only ten per cent of them - clearly the effect of Cold War power politics. Poland, historically maltreated by both Germany and Russia-the USSR, had never had a Nazi-party, but it did have its General Anders and his heroes at Monte Casino, and thousands of "Righteous" individuals. With the Germans having been forgiven, doesn't it feel totally unfair to keep on accusing an entire nation for the crimes that had been committed by only a tiny minority of its citizens during the occupation by the Nazi-Germans?
14
My parents were Polish Jews who were in the Holocaust. Neither they nor dozens of their friends or relatives who survived had a good word to say about the Poles. They all survived despite the treachery of the Poles. One friend, who survived was a child turning that time period. Following the war, she and her family members moved back to a cottage they owned in Poland. Two Polish Nationalists broke into their cottage and shot her mother and uncle in front of her eyes. They debated whether they should shoot her but decided against it.
And BTW, maybe the real test of how Poles felt and still feel about Jews? The few Poles that did help Jews were afraid to acknowledge that fact, knowing their fellow Poles would hate them for that.
83
We share a similar ancestral background. I couldn't agree more with all you've said. My family too, has nothing good to say about the Poles, and have even worse things to say about the Ukrainians, whose complicity in World War 2 killing Jews is notorious.
Why do you think it is that Poland today has somewhere around only 6000 Jews??? It is so obvious its painful. And yet today Poland sees fit to pass legislation curtailing the discussion of Jewish suffering. What a joke. Can we all say "collective denial"?
69
And one of the reasons there are only 6,000 Jews in Poland today is because of a Polish antisemitic campaign in 1968 that drove the vast majority of its remaining Jews. BTW, there is evidence that that is also being suppressed.
20
So true, my mother returned to her home and a woman dressed in my grandmothers clothes wanted to know what my mother wanted there saying “your still alive” . My mother was in a pogram afterwards and had to leave.
18
This is a very sensitive subject for Polish Christians. Many suffered the same ethical clensing as the Polish Jews, yet it is not recognized. The Poles as a nation suffered more death and destruction by the Nazis, than any other country in regard to population. Their mind set was that they were abandoned by the world, and delivered to Stalin by the West. Such a sad history.
19
Pepperman wrote: "The Poles as a nation suffered more death and destruction by the Nazis, than any other country in regard to population."
Just to be clear, the Soviets introduced mass murder to Poland shortly after they took over their half of Poland in 1939 (22,000 Poles summarily executed by the Soviets in Katyn forest).
Poland was between a rock and a hard place in WWII.
13
"This is a very sensitive subject for Polish Christians. Many suffered the same ethical clensing as the Polish Jews,"
Poles are mostly Christian. Germans are mostly Christian. Russians are mostly Christian. What entity performed "ethnic cleansing" on Polish Christians?
7
Let me make sure I’ve got this straight: Israel, which has pushed for laws at home and abroad to outlaw criticism of itself, is dead set against Poland’s attempt to outlaw criticism of itself.
41
So I guess that makes Polish murder and complicity in the murder of Jews okay?
26
Israel is pushing against BDS, which explicitly states it wants to rid the land of all Jews (like most Arabic countries). To put this defense of itself against the institutionalized denial of extermination in Poland is a false equivalency worthy of Fox but not of critical thinkers.
14
If that is what you think the controversy is about, I suggest you read some more history.
14