This is not a news story. This has been going on forever.
4
Now we know that the subway tunnels are actually goldmines.
2
Blame the unions, how lovely
1
"A Gold-Plated, Ramshackle Subway"?
Interesting that the above headline from the print edition didn't make it online...?
Especially since a LOT of the gold-plating has to do with HUGE salaries of MTA CEO, big-wigs, and higher-ups and with the costly perks offered to the MTA Board (both documented by the Times in prior articles).
And also in light of the mega-$billion high-profile "gold-plated" projects the Times Magazine article recently pointed up: the $4 BILLION Calatrava WTC "Oculus" (costing double the original estimate) and the $2 BILLION 34th St subway extension (Bloomberg's pet project to benefit developers putting up luxury housing over on the West Side), to name just two. Management and politicians -- not MTA workers -- approved those expenses! And then there was SAIC and CityTime...
The real problem with the subways is almost obscene mismanagement (from MTA brass and NYS and NYC politicians), and massive under-funding of things like maintenance, in favor of highly touted "gold-plated" vanity projects and salaries of MTA high-fliers! The Times itself has said as much, and documented it. So I'm at a loss to figure out the focus of this item by the Editorial Board. Worker salaries and worker benefits really pale in comparison as causes of the subway's problems.
PS As another case-in-point of ruinous "gold-plating": "Jay Walder ... got an "annual salary of $350,000 and severance worth upward of $800,000, along with housing and retirement benefits."
4
Not only the most expensive, but the worst performing. An embarrassment and disgrace.
3
Capitalism and greed are not conducive to endeavors that benefit the general public.
For all its grotesque wealthy, the US is not capable of providing efficient and modern public transportation for citizens not reliant on cars.
4
It sure cost a lot to garner the political support of the labor unions, but then again most of these overpaid sloppy workers vote for Republicans anyway. Money wasted... hire non-union laborers at half the cost. more bang for the buck.
NYC's subway system is truly third world- in a class by itself. The magnitude of the cost of overhauling the system is understated by a magnitude of [insert __X]. This is classical kick-the-can-down-the-road political malpractice. Cuomo and de Blasio have limited shelf lives- I mean, the MTA was rotten under previous administrations. It reminds me of climate change in many ways: a knee-jerk reaction to a problem that grows more daunting as time goes on...and in which there is a point of no return. We may be there already: we are well past putting lipstick on a pig (remodeling stations with trains running on a 1930s switching system- really?) Remedying this mess will require BIG planning and political courage. Ever hopeful I do not see light at the end of this tunnel- sadly.
3
"NYC's subway system is truly third world- in a class by itself. The magnitude of the cost of overhauling the system is understated by a magnitude of [insert __X]."
Right, the subway system has all sorts of problems; the biggest is that Pataki decided the starve if cash starting in 1995. No, no later governor has bothered to fix that.
I don't understand why you bring up mayor de Blasio --or hypothetically Bloomberg. Absent a restoration of state monies cut by Pataki: There's no good reason de Blasio should restore the City contribution to the subways cut to zero by Giuliani.
HOWEVER, the Times reporting that this editorial so praises is almost entirely about an expensive Long Island Rail Road tunnel not the NYC subways.
So you were saying what about a "knee jerk reaction"?
Sheila here: Whenever I see or here someone referred to as a leader I think the opposite. These people are not leaders. Please.
The so-called leadership in New York City and in New York State are all failing anyone and everyone who has to commute on public transportation to get to work every day in New York City.
New Jersey Transit, AMTRAK, and the MTA are all as infuriatingly corrupt, greedy, contemptuous and incompetent as the Trump Administration and the GOP.
Today was a flipping nightmare trying to get into the City from Orange County, NY. Nobody who controls any of this gives a damn - they don't use public transportation - that's clearly for "the little people" to resurrect the infamous words of Leona Helmsley.
It is a miracle and a testament to the tenacity and civility of all of us who are put through the utterly insane machinations of these institutions every single day.
We are lied to, or not communicated with at all, dispatchers load and unload trains on the same tracks at the same time, escalators are going in the opposite direction needed for passengers, most of us have a daily litany of excuses that have to be made to employers that never ends AND we have to make up the time. The stupidity, hubris, contempt and sheer arrogance of the people running these institutions is beyond comprehension. I spend thousands of dollars - $6K annually to be exact - on these hellish commutes just to go to and from work, and that doesn't include my parking or automobile costs. All of it STINKS.
NONE OF THIS IS NORMAL AND NONE OF IT IS ACCEPTABLE.
6
"New Jersey Transit, AMTRAK, and the MTA are all as infuriatingly corrupt, greedy, contemptuous and incompetent as the Trump Administration and the GOP."
It's wrong to complain about the GOP in this fiasco since there isn't one city in this country run by Republicans. Everything you see in every city in the S can be blamed on the Democrats who have been running them for 50 years or more.
Perhaps if some of the cities were to give the GOP a chance they might see a difference. How can it be worse than you have now?
Take the average Paris numbers, add 5%, and that's what the MTA will pay for all future projects. The unions will be held responsible for keeping costs within that budget. Problem solved.
1
"Take the average Paris numbers, add 5%, and that's what the MTA will pay for all future projects. The unions will be held responsible for keeping costs within that budget. Problem solved."
So you'll be bringing strong single payer medical, paid vacation, paid sick leave, and limited work hours to the USA?
Also, will you be the one to tell skilled construction machine operators working in NYC for private contractors (the LIRR tunnel, not a subway tunnel, is being built by private contractors) that their annual pay will be dropping from $200,00 to $95,000 per year?
2
While I consider myself a cultured and appreciative citizen of the city and one who regularly now uses and has used the subways for 6 decades, one of the worst aspects of the City and MTA's projects on the rail lines and stations has been to pay for expensive, all but useless, overpriced, often boring and never appreciated by commuters, "art work" on station walls which is resented by at least as many people who pay to get transportation-not intellectual stimulation and elevation. So much of the work after old and decrepit tile signs were falling out of place and being picked off the walls, has been a far cry from the handsome and careful imitations of the original sogns on the station walls. The money invested in these replacement signs was probably expensive but maintained the original state of the trains. The introduction of local, paid and and childrens art works on the walls of stations seems to have given many executives of the TA the idea that they can succeed by one upping each other with what amount to featherbedding for labor contracts to rip up, slow down, reupholster and decorate the trains stations for the pleasure of local arts committees and the political employers of those hired to maintain the systems..
The original stations were fine and when they did begin to decay, were fixed as if by the original artisans. Art and outside input is a useless cherry on top of our melting transit system.
1
Baby boomers, Democrat and Republican, and their attitudes towards cars, are the real source of this problem. At its root, this is not a union or MTA or government problem, this is the result of an entire generation of people brought up to view public transportation as an antiquated way of life and cars as modernity.
Until we can break this association, nobody, from drivers upstate who have never been on a bus to our gymkhana-chauffered baby boomer in City Hall, will view this as the economic crisis that it is.
My only hope is that baby boomers, faced with the looming prospect of living without their licences, might come around in old age.
2
Allowing an infrastructure to fall into disarray is criminal negligence. Elected officials can claim all kinds of reasons why they allowed it to happen, but everything needs maintenance, and pretending the system didn't need attention is negligence.
2nd point: please stop using the term "leaders" when you mean elected officials. Leadership is a learned trait. Getting elected to office does not automatically confer leadership upon an individual. There are some elected officials who never demonstrate leadership, but they may be re-elected.
1
This editorial only scratches the surface. A few reflections:
1) Albany has utterly failed at managing the MTA. New York City must make reclaiming control of the agency its guiding priority at the state level. It is an existential issue for our citizens and our economy.
2) The MTA and the Port Authority, as presently constituted, are hopelessly atrophied and corrupted. Only a dramatic and all-encompassing reorganization of the agencies' mandates and authorities will suffice if New Yorkers are ever to hope for meaningful change. This will require a renewed spirit of humility and cooperation between state leaders in New York and New Jersey; we can start by bidding Andrew Cuomo farewell this November and putting a true progressive in his place.
3) Unions, contractors, and employees at all levels of the agency are completely insulated from accountability; this is a culture that looks inward and retreats from service, rather than facing the public with a sense of pride and mission. New Yorkers instinctively know this, because it permeates every aspect of the MTA experience. Progressive politicians in New York must have the courage to take on unions that are not holding up their end of the social contract.
4) We, the riders, need to be realistic that positive change will require short-term sacrifice. Rather than gripe about the L train closure in 2019, we need to be organized and effective in lobbying for alternative modes of transit and improved service elsewhere.
4
Is the Oculus shopping mall masquerading as a PATH train station really necessary? Brick and mortar retail space is on the decline. That money could have been spent better.
4
My dad was sent by ambulance to Mount Sinai West this weekend. I went to support him and also get medicine to my mother who had a bad flu. It took me 2 hours to get to midtown from Brooklyn which should be a 30 minute trip. The workers blocked the track and foiled the stated schedule listed by MTA.info. I can't tell you the rage I feel at the fatcats who have harvested our discomfort for their gain. Time to move?
4
Time to move. Forget the question mark!
Progressives and left-leaners (I am one of them) have to acknowledge how Democratic clubhouse politics, cronyism, patronage, a cast of political hacks with no accountability and even less ability - except for cultivating union and construction company donations - are responsible for the sewer of incompetence and third-rate subway system in the richest city in the world claims s its own.
The Port Authority remains a bastion of in effectuality, graft and political spoils. Only a thorough house-cleaning and redesign of the this bureaucratic mediocrity will be sufficient to address these problems.
It would interest me if digitally and politically savvy people could organize NYC residents in a large-scale tax protest (claiming more deductions than normal or using other means to withhold paying taxes to NY State ) or some other action besides voting for replacement parts to shock the system into responding. One can always dream.
2
"Progressives and left-leaners (I am one of them) have to acknowledge how Democratic clubhouse politics, cronyism, patronage, "
And it's Pataki (and do a lesser extent Giuliani) who massively cut funds to the MTA/subways.
No governor has sought to restore the massive Pataki cuts. Remember he was governor for 12 years. Now which party does he belong to?
1
New York, like distant Chicago, is a city dominated by ego and greed. Selfishness is the common virtue of the two places. And a very compelling reason as to why both cities have declined precipitously in the last 70 years. When the cry is, "I had to do it for myself" regarding asking and receiving exorbitant wages, civic duty and a sense of the common good are long dead. Let New York and Chicago rot, beset as they are with officials and private individuals obsessed with private gain. People in Shanghai won't even notice...
1
There is no other explanation that can explain the fact that NYC subway costs 3-5 times more than one in Paris, but a single word: THEFT.
The same goes for US medical cost compared to, say, Germany.
We are being robbed blind of our tax money. Time for a change - for the beginning, fire the top 100 people in MTA. Then, introduce international bidders. I am quite sure Japanese, French or Germans can do the job better for less money.
1
the subway system is so ill-maintained that at times it seems like an abandoned infrastructure from a Mad Max film. In my station, two giant bags of rubbish with their contents spilling out, have graced a stair landing for days. The snow was never shoveled from the steps, passengers had to kick it aside. It is beginning to look a lot like 1979 again.
5
Unions have completely captured government at all layers, so why should the politicians they've bought and paid for do anything about it?
2
One key reason is that the politicians (99% of them are Dems) are in the hip pocket of the unions who stifle competition. Plus, union rules are archaic and need to be revamped to allow for 21st century approaches. Our subway is doomed.
1
New Yorkers are apparently not demonstrating in the streets and at the state Capitol for changes to the campaign finance laws. So I guess it is OK with the voters that the campaign finance system legally allows elected officials to be bought off by special interest donors? New Yorkers, you should NOT be surprised by what you're seeing, you deserve it, through your lack of awareness and action on the root cause of the problem.
2
The problem lies not just in NYC's subway. It lies in every major infrastructure. Amtrak is being held toghether by duct tape. My last trip in the cold winter spell took 5:30 for a 3:30 scheduled trip. This does not happen in Europe where train travel is taken seriously and maintained. You just do not get such delays unless there is a strike. These delays cost this country billions in lost time and productivity. I am tired of politicians blaming the unions when they refuse to raise taxes to pay for needed infrastructure. Enough of this GOP nonsense. Gov. is the only entity that can fix infrastructure. The private sector cannot solve this problem. Money does as well as good management.
2
There are questions of cost overruns to be sure.
But there is one overwhelming reality, The United States does a miserable job on infrastructure. It’s easy to get interstate funding that primarily serves a local population, e.g. Houston’s Katy Freeway. But Trump’s Washington argues an interstate rail link for New Jersey and New York - and the Northeast corridor is a local job.
inevitably change would lead to a focus on cost and benefits.
The far right anarchists disapprove of Rail transit or a coordinated approach to surface transportation and put a false focus on its rail’s failure to earn profits. The Pntahon does not make a profit. Government is not supposed to be a profit generator. Conservatives have not always behaved this way.
The late Paul Weyrich of the Heritage Foundation was an advocate for huge
Improvements in surface Transportation and was involved in a deep study that has been ignored for more than a decade.
What we see is a siphoning off of urban tax money to support road building in states like Montana or “commuter rail” in Alaska. THe Alaska railroad gets millions every year under that guise.
We need an approach that deals with a national economy. We need to find a way around the political games, eg Chris Christie killing the New Hudson Tunnels, exposing the region to the long term problems from Sandy flooding, and huge future costs.
We’re competing in a world where our competitors is racing ahead of us on infrastructure.
13
Irrelevant. The problems existed under Obama, Cuomo, and De Blasio. All Progressive Democrats.
1
I understand there are problems with cost overruns on subway repair/construction problems, but this editorial is clearly meant to turn people against unions without really explaining what it is the unions are doing wrong. Are they demanding decent salaries & healthcare for their workers? If so, I'm all for that. In general, the NY times is becoming very anti-union, and I am not happy about that. People need to realize there is an anti-labor agenda behind this type of article instead of taking what is said at face value as most readers seem to.
11
Read the article the editorial is referencing. It's not just "decent" salaries they are asking for and getting; it's huge pay way out of proportion to what is reasonable or the standard in other highly unionized work sites. It's scores of unnecessary jobs and scores of people being paid for doing nothing. The politicians who are lavishly rewarded by unions and good liberals like you who say, If it's union, it must be right, who cause the problem and who limit the amount of infrastructure improvement can be done, because the projects are so unnecessarily expensive. Be critical of your beloved unions, and in the long run they will prosper, as there will be more work for more people, at decent but not ridiculous wage levels.
3
Please read the original article this editorial refers to. There, it explains just how unions force the MTA to pay for far more people than necessary for any given job, among other things. No one here is saying unions are bad in principle. What is happening here is this particular union is problematic.
Maybe read the article again. It is not anti-union, but opposed to the kinds of tactics that some unions use to keep its members employed when they are not needed. The article cites specifics.
Fears that unions will be sidelined, disrespected or eliminated will be justified if these tactics are not stopped.
1
Nothing new in this article. The MTA has been a horrible joke that has been horribly mismanaged since at least 1970 when I first started using the system. Fast forward to today where both governors the of New Jersey and New York, the two headed monster that runs the MTA, have used it as political football. Riders be damned has always been the policy of the MTA. Just keep jacking up the price.
5
New Jersey has nothing to do with the MTA. The governor of CT gets to name an MTA board member, as Metro North has a line terminating in New Haven.
You have confused the MTA with the Port Authority, of Bridgegate infamy.
1
The MTA is NYS, the Port Auth is NY & NJ.
1
I think you are confusing the MTA with the Port Authority Of New York And New Jersey which is run by the Governors of New York and New Jersey.
A city of subway riders just re-elected the Mayor of said subway ststem. If subway system is in crisis, how come? Our politics at both the local and state levels are hopeless. Watch the builder of the Mario Cuomo bridge win re-election easily. New Yorkers are sheep who vote for Dems no matter what. Same as West Virginians who vote Republican no matter what.
6
The NY State Senate is a Republican majority; George Pataki was a 3-term Republican governor; the previous mayor of NYC, Michael Bloomberg, was registered as a Republican.
1
Because the Mayor has no control of the MTA, which is a state authority under the full control of the Governor?
Maybe this time the Times will refuse to endorse Cuomo at all...
1
West Virginians were faithful Democrat voters until the election of 2016. Hillary telling the union miners that she was going to wipe out their jobs was what pushed them over to the Repblicans.
Hypocrisy much? The Times support for all things union is unrelenting. And you can’t fault the unions for striking better and better wage deals for their members. That’s what unions do, and that’s the bill NY must pay for its prevailing wage laws. Seems fair enough. Surely the Times would be stridently opposed to any rollback of the prevailing wage system. Where’s the scandal here?
3
It's not just the wages per worker, it's the featherbedding. It's the laws governing legal liability (scaffold law) that increase costs tremendously. But ultimately, all users of the subway system pay for the incredibly high costs, and pay for the fact that capital improvements cannot be made due to the costs.
So New Yorkers, how's that vote for Cuomo instead of Zephyr Teachout in the last democratic gubernatorial primary looking now?
Not so good, huh.
8
How about the Times refusing to make an endorsement in that primary, then endorsing Cuomo in the General election?
My family and I all voted for Teachout.
2
The bloated costs are a disgrace, should be criminal. Just proves the govt can never get anything done on any type of a reasonable budget. Suppose you will now tell me the answer is to simply tax the rich to pay for these criminal cost overruns.
4
Nah, the Times is all in on congestion pricing, and has been since Bloomberg ruled 5he roost.
1
amazing: this is just the out come for which Thrump would strive. it crosses party lines: corruption by power is an equal opportunity temptation is a ruthless competitive capitalist society.
2
What time are the complimentary refreshments served on the Second Ave line?
2
My heart wept when I read Mr. Rosenthal's & also the piece in your magazine by a Jonathan Mahler. To me it means that New York has passed its zenith. Amazon would never want to put its second headquarters anywhere near it. Besides the mass transit problem there is the problem of exorbitant housing costs and high taxes. My guess is that by the middle of this century multiple other US cities will surpass NYC in population and prominence. I have no hope that Cuomo or DiNapoli will correct anything. If Attorney General Eric Schneiderman wants to investigate something he should investigate the corruption and collusion that has occurred between the politicians and the labor unions. If he doesn't, than maybe the Feds should appoint a special prosecutor.
8
The next most populous city in the US would have to DOUBLE in population to get within a million of NYC population, and there is construction everywhere here in NYC.
Or New York would have to become the world’s largest ghost town...
1
Please don't pin this on the guys who work in the hole all day and night. Not when the MTA has been paying absurd amounts of interest for loans they never should have taken. Not when Albany is happy for the 55% of state income tax that comes from NYC. Not when the MTA spent millions to change the name of a bridge we all still call the Triboro. Bad management is the villain here. Cuomo, U Bum, you're done.
10
Political hacks or individuals with "poor credentials" describe Joe Lhota exactly.
1
Take away all Agency vehicle!Everyone Rides the rails! The Governor and his Cronies. The Mayor and his cronies etc.
And no sweeps before they arrive. The situation will improve quickly!
5
New York Leaders Are Failing "Their" Subway Riders, not "It's."
Meanwhile, it would be great to fix the underground of the best city in the world. The longer the wait ......
1
i was little confused at first cushy union jobs applies to the MTA as well
The Oligarch's are in their limo's counting their dividends.
Our infrastructure deteriorates and remains dangerous. No dividends to count, working folks are pushed or fall onto tracks.
Meanwhile the genius imbecile, whom America did not elect, hands out unbelievably huge tax cuts to himself and the Oligarch's.
Yea Einstein, That will make America Great.
Right to Life? Force a woman to bear a child, but look the other way so Mother and the child will die from lack of health care.
6
This is the perfect definition of Fraud, Waste and Abuse.
1
Yes, by all means let's blame the unions and the workers and leave the perfidious politicians out of it! I'm sick of this anti Union claptrap.
7
Read the article and then come back and defend ridiculous contracts bestowed on the unions because no one has an incentive not to. It's the politicians, the contractors, AND the unions doing this hand in hand in hand.
1
Get rid of the unions. They are always horrible and waste money. No surprise there.
3
What, no mention of "mafia"? Are we supposed to not use that word any more, or has it become redundant with "union"?
1
"'mafia?"', "' union?"'
Wouldn't that be redundant?
What has happened to this paper? Too write an editorial claiming contractors and unions caused NY to spend an extra billion dollars a mile to the cost of a subway is insane. The stations on the CA line from SF to LA are costing 5 times what would cost in Germany. So they too must burdened with these awful contractors and unions. NY has done it for only three times as much, what a savings! I believe you are just off the track. It has to be laws and management that has created this dilemma. Your ad today talks about truth and the first thing I would say is skimming won't get you to the truth.
3
California is also a blue paradise run by the AFL-CIO.
1
I recently returned from several Asian countries with old but immaculate and on-time subway systems. It will never happen here. Even if we could build it, Americans will ruin it. We are slobs and show no respect. Litter is everywhere, people put feet on seats etc... things that never happen in Japan. Time to change our culture.
In addition, we have:
1. Scaffold law- lawyers and negligent workers reap landslides, and we all pay
2. Unions have run away with things. Eliminate them. We have laws to prevent problems.
3. Understand that everyone needs to pay, not just DiBlasio's "rich paying just a little more...."
8
Don’t complain when Cuomo’s choice of congestion pricing wins out over De Blasio’s “millionaire’s tax.”
This article completely fails to make the distinction betweencity workers, members of Local 100 of the TWU, who run and maintain the system, and the union workers hired by the PRIVATE CONTRACTORS who have won bids to do the capital construction in all agencies of the MTA.
Why are unions important? When Donald Trump reached an agreement to build Trump Tower on the site of Bonwit Teller, he agreed to preserve the historic stone friezes of the Bonwit frontage. He hired illegal aliens, mostly Polish, to do the demolition. Not only were the friezes destroyed, but Trump then and committed wage theft on those workers, ending up paying out after a court decision. There were laws against wage theft, even then, and also laws against hiring illegal aliens. Did either of those laws deter Trump or help those workers, or those with interest in architectural art? Don’t be silly, doc.
1
While I do not agree with points 2 and 3, I totally agree with point 1. Americans are slobs, devoid of manners and think they can throw garbage everywhere and put their feet up wherever they please. Heck, they do it in their own homes! They also think it's ok have meals and do their makeup on public transportation (the thought makes me gag). Unless children are taught manners by parents and schools (as in other countries where they are taught table manners) anything built in the country will be garbage strewn within a month of opening. That's why we can't have nice things.
Ok, tie the infrastructure deal to prevailing wages and require Unions to bid the full job. Require a minimum of 5 bids or do not award. Pick who is lowest or don't receive Federal funds. Problem solved.
2
Except when the five bidders know the prices of the other four. Next question?
Is it really possible that no laws were broken with so much corruption taking place over so long, involving such unspeakable squandering of so much public money?
11
The MTA and the Port Authority are both completely dysfunctional and a financial albatross around the necks of NY taxpayers. The corruption is so ingrained, it is so institutionalized, that it seems unsolvable. Both agencies will continue to be a tremendous drag on the finances and quality of life of New York until a major intervention takes place.
9
The subways don't need money for improvements, says those who are driven in chauffeured Escalades and zip around on helicopters from rooftops.
2
The Times has a run a couple of stories on the deplorable conditions in the Subway system in the last few weeks and should be commended for it. The Subway is a key component of the system we call New York City. Without it there would be no New York City. Today's editorial is another blow at the politicians, contractors and unions who have done their best to keep the Subway as an example of the worst underground transportation system in the world.
I wrote a comment to draw people's attention to what is possible when a system is properly run. I used the London Underground as my prime example of what NYC's Subway could be. I hope people will look for the video on You Tube. It was amazing to me that the system is 50 years older than NY's Subway and looks like it was built new in 2013 when the video was made.
Even in its dilapidated condition the Subway is an asset. I can't imagine what NYers would do without it. More pressure must be brought to bear on the Governor and Legislature of New York State. Any system that doesn't have a planned maintenance program but relies on breakdowns to create service work is doomed to collapse.
3
I wrote this is 2010 comparing the costs and efficiency of upgrading the metro in Madrid, Spain to New York ... this has been obvious for a long time, but it has finally taken this past year's problems and people being able to tweet their frustrations when they're stuck in the subway to finally start bringing attention to the situation: https://www.city-journal.org/html/subway-lessons-madrid-13289.html
2
Stop just the blame of NY leader, how about giving some of the blame to rider who abuse the system and how about the rider who cry every thing the fees go up, where else can you ride that cheaper, about expecting the system needs repairs and the people who ride is should help pay.
yes union and leader are just a part of it
Um our fare has beem rising a quater every 2 years for the past 10
1
So many good people (Ravitch, Kiley, Gunn, Goodlatte, Monheim, Prendergast, et. al.) have expended so much of their talent and effort over the years to fix the subways that it's no surprise that the current state of the subway system makes a lot of people, including me, angry.
That New York's political leaders have failed to follow through with the support that's required to maintain, let alone expand, the subway system, knowing that the future of the city is at risk, is a public shame. It remains to be seen if they can avoid squandering this good work and redeem themselves.
3
Wow ! The Editorial Board taking on the unions. I never thought I'd live to see the day. Maybe they should open their eyes and see the same problem that unions cause (to far more destructive effect) in our city schools ?
The simple fact is that unions are government sanctioned monopolies. It's bad enough when they exist in the private sector. But notice that almost every sector in which unions have been dominant - airlines, autos, steel - have seen large episodes of bankruptcy.
But it's worse when unions exist within the public sector - or which contract with the public sector. Even liberal icon FDR thought that public unions were a bad idea. Basically, you have one monopoly (unions) working for another (the government such as the subways operated by the MTA). In these cases, even the basic discipline of the market that exists for a car company is obscured since the government itself often has little competition. So you get high costs and bad service.
Even more pernicious, public unions often use their dues to support (aka bribe) the government representatives who sign their contracts. See example.
http://www.nola.com/education/index.ssf/2015/08/union_contract_approved_...
8
This is how blue paradises work. You pay more taxes, but the services aren't necessarily any better. Newark, New Jersey, and Washington DC, spend more than any state does, on average, on primary education, and get worse results than any state.
1
The MTA's first priority should be spending money on a modern signaling system. This would allow the trains to run closer together and reduce over crowding.
3
Last time I looked the Moscow Subway used a signalling system that dated fro the 1930's. It is also likely that no matter what frugality is imposed the costs of Subway construction in a dense, old city will be higher than elsewhere.
One simple question to the Editorial Board -- where is the outrage? Outrage over the labor laws that make no sense and paralyze the system from running efficiently so that the union members benefit. Outrage over the corrupt construction process with no oversight? Outrage over the obvious corruption between those getting the contracts and then "donations" to politicians campaigns? Outrage over the lack of oversight by the comptroller's office?
This whole system smacks of the worst of Tammany Hall days, and yet the whole tone of the piece is rather anodyne. What a shame....
6
Surely this situation calls for a more radical solution? What about shifting to above ground mass transportation, creating a network of electric street trams within pedestrianized/bike only artery roads, creating a new city authority and newly appointed oversight and negotiated labor contracts? NYC has gridlock both above and below the ground, and is going to be increasingly vunerable to below-ground flooding.
All the info presented by the NYT leads to the inescapable conclusion that those who manage the system right now, both politically and operationally, are incapable of driving reform, and money spent on modernizing the subway system is going to be substantially wasted.
Keep the subway system for the outer boroughs (perhaps initially), and convert below Manhattan over time to more utilitarian usage - to move goods, trash and services, like Disney does below its theme parks.
Good.
Now continue to beat this drum and don't take your eye off the ball.
Success happens when trains run on time and the system has been expanded by 20 percent.
Hope you've got patience.
1
Don't forget drivers and shipping companies who use the Bridges and Tunnels. They're also subsidizing the rail system. The toll costs are through the roof because of all this waste. This increases everyone's cost of living.
Construction companies and labor unions donate to these 'so called leaders'
campaigns. Where is the incentive for these politicians to bite the hands that feed them? Answer: None!
Evidence: Big Dig in Boston and Bay Bridge in San Francisco
2
Who rides the subway--not most people in Albany, not high paid union bosses, not millionaire construction bosses, not Cuomo. But they are the real managers of the subway, the schemers looking for more dollars or more votes or both. They are all in it together and as the subway collapses, we pay the price and it only goes up.
1
When money can buy politicians, whether it's union money or corporate money, the system will be corrupt. It's just a fact. Solution? Take the money out of politics with only publicly funded campaigns or very small individual donations to specific politicians or ballot issues. Allocate free airtime for campaign commercials (recall, we, the American people own these airwaves and lease them to the corporations) to eliminate bias news media coverage. Unless, and until, we as a nation demand the removal of unfettered money in the political system, the political system will be, and remain, corrupt.
2
Completely missing from this "analysis" is that MTA hires outside consultants for every project, and it is in the consultants' financial interest to have the project continue as long as possible, and be as fouled up as possible. Of course contractors know this and price this in when bidding. Blaming the contractors and unions for this is ludicrous.
3
This morning, around 7:35AM, a nearly empty Manhattan bound R train skipped right by the 63 Drive stop in Queens. There were some passengers on the train, who I assume boarded at the first stop at Forest Hills. I guess keeping on the schedule is more important than transporting people waiting for the train.
3
Second story in a week that illustrates incompetence of NY governmental functions. A few days ago the story was how the public housing authority had failed with 32 buildings unable to provide reliable heat do to lack of ongoing maintenance. Now this about their transit authority and its gross incompetence. When will the citizens of NY rebel and demand more from their government. Perhaps they should try republican leadership for a change. This also shows why the SALT deduction should melt away completely. All it does is implicitly encourage waste, fraud, abuse and mismanagement at the state and local level
2
The Republicans that just gave us the tax bill that feeds the rich?
“featherbedding” Great term! Any government project that relies on outside contractors will experience featherbedding one way or another. If there’s no profit then why even bid on the contracts?
Why does NY City even need contractors? Why can’t they just build an internal agency that can plan, manage and do construction? Why can’t there be stable long term city jobs maintaining the system? I will bet you that London and Paris do not rely on contractors to the degree NY does.
12
A long time friend of mine works as a heavy construction engineer and project manager. His company won a bid to build one of the stations and a 10 block segment of the 2nd ave. subway project.
Something I was unaware of is that each station and 10 block segment of the project were bid out to separate construction companies. Perhaps there's a reason for this, but it seems that this would result in larges amounts of redundancy - and redundant costs.
13
Why are we pillorying unions for doing what they're supposed to do? The police, firefighters, sanitation, teachers, and transit workers unions are by design supposed to work the best deals for their constituents. The erosion of regard for the American union is another dystopian facet of 21st century life.
14
Unions doing public work ought to be working in the public's interest, not just the narrow interest of their members. If their leaders won't support that standard, then the governor and legislators should ensure they do. Lower cost projects will mean more projects -- and more work for labor and better service for the public. This isn't "dystopian." It's a win-win.
15
Honest pay for honest work, yes; featherbedding, no.
3
I am a former union member and was very happy for the benefits provided. I especially liked getting triple time on my birthday.
The construction cost excesses cited in the article referenced go far beyond these kinds of benefits and are not only related to unions. Some of the income generated by the three-time multiplier in the subway costs cited must be going somewhere else.
With that said, the wielding of unions' power to keep unnecessary workers on site - in the construction and other businesses and jobs in the civic arena - spoil the reputations of unions with the people paying the bills.
Unions were formed to stop the exploitation of the workers. When they themselves exploit it leads to the question you posed.
5
One action that would contribute to better cost management would be regular, publicly reported, audits; both for the MTA and for individual projects.
10
The agencies doing comparable projects elsewhere should have been hired in the first place. There is no evidence in the States that rail infrastructure on the ground
comes even close to modern world’s best standard.
7
BBB, the job must be put out for bid, and those companies have to, you know, actually bid on it. You can informally ask them to bid, but you can't MAKE them bid...
1
That's right, blame unions. Never mind the politicians who siphoned off money for other purposes while delaying and postponing repairs, until now we have a crisis on our hands.
36
The Times has run a whole sequence of articles laying out in detail how State, City and Legislature have raided the MTA's funding and Capital Program. And this Editorial rightly points out that the construction companies, State Comptroller, MTA so-called oversight and management are all to blame.
25 sandhogs per Boring Machine? The rest of the world is just fine with 8.
And the workers in London and Paris ARE unionized. Face the facts.
4
@Talbot. The article does not blame unions, it blames the politicians who enable them.
2
There is zero purpose in unions now. Get over it. This should all be deunionized.
1
Union featherbedding is a big part of the problem, but only because the Wagner Act and similar state and local provisions often make them mandatory.
If unions were voluntary for both workers and employers, they would be forced to pride themselves on providing highly skilled and diligent workers. Workers would then rush to join, and employers would gladly hire their members.
But when unions are compulsory, they merely provide an additional layer of cost-raising shakedowns.
20
It doesn't make sense to shop around anymore because by the time you're done, any money you might have saved by looking for he best price or brand is absorbed by the MTA @$2.75 a pop. You might as well stay home and go online.
That was the thing about New York City. Go down to Canal Street, or try Little for that special thing, or hop around going to thrift stores, but paying $2.75 takes all the fun and savings out of it. New York City is just like anywhere else now. Home Depot, CVS, Whole Foods, home.
16
Huh? What argument are you exactly making here? That NYC has become chain store -ified (which to a degree is true) or that $2.75 is too much to pay for the subway? Compare that to London or Tokyo and it's really not expensive at all, even at that cost, especially considering that you can walk to many, many places in NYC (assuming you're able-bodied).
I agree with you, but I think the transportation cost is a factor in all the major metros. several days ago when the Times ran the articles about the new admission policy at the Metropolitan Museum, people commented correctly that the National Gallery of Art is free--but if you have to take a bus and a subway, plus walking, just to get there and back, it isn't so inexpensive. The same is true for the main public library downtown. For me, that crossed over into being more trouble and expense than it is worth years ago. The same is true in Chicago, where I currently live.
1
While the experts poo-poo Ann Rand, New York is enacting "Atlas Shrugged" in its unplanned form. The can-do people have been marginalized and the system is in melt down mode.
13
Rand was a defender of laissez-faire capitalism, the kind that inevitably produce ubermensch defined by "greed" and "unsatiable power"- like Donald Trump. Incidentally, it's AYN not Ann Rand. Identifying and agreeing on who the "can-do people" are, is the bigger issue- which returns to the crux of the matter presented in the article— incompetent state leaders and their politics.
And in response. the same type of people, if not the very same people will be elected next cycle. But don't worry. Editorialists will occasionally complain. That should fix everything.
'Ayn Rand'.
You're welcome.
1
Open up the bidding process to the French . And the UK
Competition works.
66
"Open up the bidding process to the French . And the UK"
Will the French and the UK bring strong single payer national medical insurance to the USA?
And, skilled construction workers in NYC would likely riot if asked to work for UK level wages--even with good single payer.
And yet, the left in this country tries to quash competition and get more government involvement at every turn. And when that doesn't work out, what is their suggested solution? More taxes and government.
No wonder left wing ideas like "the war on poverty" fail so dramatically, and yet the left continues to advocate for FAR more of the same each and every year. As long as it is paid for, of course, with other peoples' money.
it worked in the gulf of mexico
This just reinforces my contention that government is NOT the solution and labor unions are out feather the beds of their leaders.
The only incentive for government workers and elected officials is to keep their jobs, responsible public policy and responsible fiscal management be damned.
These people wouldn't last a week in the private sector AND they know it. The voters that put these jokers into office have no one but themselves to blame.
Enjoy, New York :)
6
Here is the problem with your post and others similar, as well as with this editorial.
These infrastructure projects are put out for bid...to private contractors. These are NOT city union (TWU) workers doing the job. The city does mandate both living wage be paid and union workers do the work, but it is entirely up to the company to decide staffing of THEIR OWN employees.
12
Los Angeles and other American cities are successfully building transit systems at costs comparable to world averages. New York has specific problems relating to its history of corruption -- and the non-competitive nature of its Legislative elections, in which the GOP-controlled Senate and Dem lower house are more interested in protecting vested interests than any real contest of ideas or competition for power. You are mistaking a specific problem for a general principle.
1
How come in Europe Government makes this work??
Really need a wake up call here!!
Our government is problem not all government!
1
New York's subways really are a travesty. Comparing our city's subways to those in other major cities - whether in the rich developed world or in the so-called "third world" - is an embarrassing exercise. Simply put, our antiquated system and shamefully decrepit stations (and really, they are crumbling and in some cases disgusting) give lie to the increasingly absurd nickname the city likes to give itself - the greatest city in the world.
Sadly, the corruption is so entrenched, I don't see this changing at all.
30
The system is hobbled by its egalitarian fare structure. But then again if the MTA took the approach of say London and based fares on distance traveled, it would harm those people who have to live further out from the city center because they cannot afford the rents of neighborhoods closer to Manhattan.
Our system is a disgrace, but even if we renovate the stations, NYers just cannot have nice things. They will destroy it.
1
While all around the world, subways have protective barriers that keep passengers safe while waiting for the train. They open only after the train has arrived.
Thumbs twittle and tweet, money pours out of the country. Soon we have to read of another victim cast onto the tracks. A victim of the thumbs twittling and tweeting.
The next victim is reading this now. How painful will be "Your" death?
10
These barriers also greatly reduce the noise level, making the experience far less excruciating.
10
Too bad Gothamites. But you have chosen, repeatedly, to elect two of the laziest, untalented egoists as Mayor and Governor, each without a modicum of managerial expertise. As we are always reminded, "elections have consequences". And so long as you all keep electing these twin bozos, the consequences for cost effective, reliable government service delivery are dire. Throw in your two Senators - the one a camera-loving cocktail party pariah, the other a daughter of Albany's finest "pay-to-get-his-way" lobbyist. Quite a quartert of Statewide elected gravy train riders. Or, is life in your City and State so glorious, unencumbered, growing and glowing that we missed something?
30
What about Bloomberg? That name is on quite a few desktops all around the world. Surely he visited them and noticed how the people sitting in front of them all over Asia and Europe got to work efficiently in fast, safe, and clean conditions. BART is filthy on the West Coast, and the NYC subway on the East Coast is worse plus frightening.
"each without a modicum of managerial expertise."
Being the NY State AG isn't managerial?
The mayor has nothing directly to do with running the MTA.
Now true, Andrew Cuomo has done nothing to restore the massive amounts of money that George Pataki cut from the system.
1
Give this guy NYT comment of the year.
If you're reading this debacle from any other state that holds its representatives accountable, you literally can't figure out how NY tax payers get gypped so hard over and over, yet keep arguing more taxes!
1
This is another example of why we need to continue the 'experiment'. The 'experiment', which is an important bedrock of the current recovery, is having a society where any average, everyday Jo Blow off the street, even if they do not have a powerful union, can get a job and be covered for health care (in other words, have a chance in life). I do not think America will go back to the 'old way' without the imposition of total dictatorship.
"New York’s leaders have failed the millions of people..." because they can't outsource this job to China (India, Mexico, you name it). Sarcasm intended.
5
Start in the State Senate.
You're welcome.
7
Start by giving the State no say in the MTA.
1
It's really tiresome reading editorials about what "Empty Suit Andy" Cuomo and his gangster political contributors and criminals in the state legislator should do.
It's time for the District Attorneys in the City to bring criminal indictments. Anything less, including more New York Times editorials, will change nothing. After all, as the Times pointed out, the subways new "savior" Joe Lhota has begun his stint by lying.
13
Gov Cuomo is a very sharp guy. There is absolutely no evidence linking him to any sort corruption, because he is careful never to allow any sort of evidence pointing back to his office. If there is an investigation, he just tosses a couple of aides under the bus, and gets some new ones.
Build up ,instead of under ,like they do in Japan Germany ,and in Texas and Los Angeles.
4
Back in the 60s, the top tax rate was 91%. Coincidentally, public spending on airports (look at them flooding just today!), highways, transportation, utilities, etc. was important. That was then. For the last half-century, priorities have shifted away from public interest spending and voter got what they wanted: a plutocracy. This not a NY problem (DC has the same issue of not funding their metro), it is an American problem. Today, you call your chauffeur to take you around. When the roads fail, you call your helicopter pilot. You don't have a limo or helicopter?! Too bad. You can fend for yourselves. You voted for lower taxes. You get what you pay for.
50
The whole point of the NYT article was that the government overspends on subway construction. How does this relate to tax rates? We don't get what we pay for.
1
Sadly, New Yorkers get almost nothing for their taxes. As Brian Rosenthal's brilliant piece of journalism documents, the more money that is collected, the more is hoovered up by corrupt unions, pols and construction companies. Net result, as all can see, is no improvement. Cuomo and DeBlasio and the rest of the Democratic mafia should be ashamed of themselves for allowing this to happen. PS I'm a Democrat!
3
Follow the money. The French metro is a publicly controlled corporation and a normal part of their budget is maintainence. It is non-profit and costs a fraction of what America pays. Like health care (and soon the internet) exploding costs for you are lining the pockets of others.
How about bringing back local control of the subways, much as should be done with schools. When it directly affects you, you're more apt to do something about it, especially when subway riders live in your district. We can then finally resolve that when it comes to the subway, the buck stops at Gracie Mansion and not the swamp of Albany. Let's not only hold unions and contractors accountable, but the bloated MTA as well.
7
The original start of deferred subway maintenance can be traced back to city control, and the Board of Transportation's insistence on holding the fare to a nickel, in large part because what Mayor would want to deal with the public uproar over a fare hike? As inflation drove costs up, the private operators eventually had to be taken over and absorbed into the state authority we have today.
3
I've heard it differently.
The subway companies got their franchise permits under the condition that the systems would be turned over to NYC after a certain number of years.
Nelson Rockefeller (Republican Governor from 1958 until he was named Gerald Ford's Vice President after the resignations first of Spiro Agnew than Nixon himself) established the MTA to help not only consolidate the power of Robert Moses, but to create an "independent bonding authority."
For over half a century, politicians of both parties have stripped out money from the operating budget while proposing grandiose projects funded by bonds that do not show up in the state budget.
2
Americans now believe that governance and politics is the art of getting something for nothing.
It is interesting to go to transportation systems in other parts of the world and see subway and bus systems operating with efficiency and reasonable price. Modern state of the art.
How could my parents have built an interstate highway system and fought WW2 and then paid for them.
In contrast we borrow heavily and dump the impact of this borrowing on future generations. We have been greedy beyond belief.
We gave ourselves medicare and low college costs. Now we deny children CHIP health care and see education costs sky rocketing.
And we want low taxes.
Basically we want things and don't want to pay for them.
Actually it is intergenerational theft and when our children try to find the greedy bums who let the bridges and highways crumble we will be pushing up daisies.
17
The US borrowed heavily to pay for the interstate highways and for World War Two.
To a large extent inflation paid off the war, while the highways fell apart after there designed in 25 year life.
"We gave ourselves medicare and low college costs. Now we deny children CHIP health care and see education costs sky rocketing."
Right, and in the article that is the basis for this editorial, the Times omits the fact that Paris/France has strong single payer medical and paid leave laws.
1
The editorial skips over the only two solutions that would truly transform the subway system, and fast: privatizing the MTA and removing the unions from the equation. Nothing else will work, or only work marginally. Until the corrupt unions that drive up the price of everything they touch are involved, nothing will change. And, until the politicians that are funded by the corrupt unions are in charge, nothing will change. Funding is not the issue, as the article clearly demonstrated. The money was pocketed by the unions which then recycled portions of it back to Albany via contributions. And health insurance is a silly excuse: other US cities operate under the same health care system. The core issue is very simple: unions. Everything the unions touch costs double and takes twice as long. So if the politicians truly care for low and middle income new yorkers, as they so often proclaim, then they should first pass a law that unions should be forbidden from bidding on state projects. Followed by privatizing the MTA. The result will be a drastically improved subway system, with dramatically lower costs within a decade or less.
16
Getting rid of unions is an old tired solution that just lowers the standard of living for the working people. Private industry has shown to be a lousy answer to government services. The workers lose out, the taxpayers get taken and the oligarch pocket our tax money.
2
Privatizing will solve nothing. We know that from, well, anything that has been privatized and the costs went through the roof. Postal service? Try Fedex. Education? Try Trump University. Roads? Try the Denver Airport road. As for blaming the workers? OK, you may have something there. It is having to pay a living wage to those who actually maintain the system that is causing all of our problems. Slave conditions will definitely improve the system.
3
Exactly.
It will take the election of crusading politicians who are willing to attack special interests to bring this mess under control. There will be aggressive and hostile pushback but all who are benefiting form the current system. Anyone care to step up and run for office?
4
What about the real special interest group - the one per cent who want all the money and now have bought politicians on both sides and get to write the legislation no matter who is in power?
2
The problem with the subway comes down to the problem with every public issue in America: no sense of shared responsibility until something catastrophic happens. In addition, no aspiring president of the US (Cuomo and DiBlasio) should be interested in fixing deep-rooted structural issues with the subway when it will take at least 10 years to see any benefits.
You're better off waiting for a major derailment event where you can pose with distraught passengers in your borrowed yellow emergency crew jacket.
9
The buck stops elsewhere. It's ridiculous that the MTA is run out of Albany. It's a local resource and should be financed and managed locally.
Until that happens I don't see a possibility for dramatic improvement. New Yorkers should take a look at Transport for London as a model for how things should be run.
57
The fares are very high in London. If we were willing to pay for nice things, we could have them too.
1
This is the search page for You Tube's videos on the London Underground.
https://search.aol.com/aol/search?q=You%20Tube%3a%20The%20London%20Under...
This editorial at least is headed in the right direction, but is too kind by far to the factions that are driving up costs. This is corruption by bureaucracy and politics, plain and simple. Normally the NYT wonders why conservatives distrust government. Look no further for an example.
5
Only NY City benefits directly from the MTA, so Albany should have no control over it.
Then, control should be turned over to those who both pay for it and benefit from it. The beneficiaries are riders and real estate owners whose property values are increased when their customers, employees and tenants have access to a quality subway system.
Part of the property tax on properties within a mile of a subway station should be earmarked for the MTA. The MTA board should then be elected by those who have paid the fares and taxes, in proportion to their payments since the last election.
18
Great, so let us stop sending funds and taxes from Orange County to NYC!
NYC sends more to Albany than it gets back.
My husband worked for the MTA as a consultant in 2014/2015. In consulting and freelancing projects come down to time and materials vs fixed bids. A project is approved based upon an estimated budget with full knowledge that cost overruns were inevitable. In light of what we know now all new projects should be fixed bid only. Time and materials is an incentive for waste, delays, and outright fraud.
But apparently the unions/construction companies are putting a lot of the extra money from the lucrative contracts to good use donating to political campaigns. The MTA debacle just highlights the reality that politicians don't work for voters so much as they serve their donors. The biggest donors don't ride the subway.
97
As the NYTs, to its credit, pointed out previously, its not just the unions. The consultants and other players are taking their cut as well to add to the fact that NYC spends the most on infrastructure projects.
8
At one time I was part of a union that went on strike. Management came in and did our jobs until the settlement (sometimes poorly). What I learned from that was that the company could not get along without the workers, but that it had too much management. I would suspect that more than a bloated workforce, the MTA also has too many managers
2
this only means that people bidding on the projects are poorly trained or deliberately under bid the cost of the project(s). Having been self-employed in the construction and maintenance field , I know bidding on a job is difficult but not impossible to come within 20% of the actual cost. With public works projects the cost overruns come in at least 2x the bid, if not more, which says a lot...like corruption and payoffs etc.
1
While lambasting everyone else, The Times might like to look at what it is like to work for NYC. My employer has a contract on a NYC job dating back 8 years, which job was completed several years ago, with the proceeds even operating with a big splashy multi-media presentation in The Times, and the City still has not paid us our retainage. To get paid to any degree required an insane amount of paperwork not required on any private project.
We completed another project only to be informed by the City that we have to attend a "pre-award" meeting to discuss EEO matters. Despite the job having already been completed, I was repeatedly asked if I could hire any minority subcontractors, then had to report on stuff long gone, while they went over my labor contracts (over which I have no control) to look for (horrors) discriminatory language which isn't there.
When you know that getting paid is going to be a hassle and that your paperwork requirements will be immense and far beyond anything in the private sector, you price accordingly.
Furthermore, as I recall your original article, you had mentioned that an accountant found 200 unneeded our of 900 on-site workers, all of whom were getting paid, on average $1000/day. Now, the insane featherbedding required by Operating Engineers is beyond the control of employers and ticks us off as much as anyone else. But I imagine if lots of unnecessary workers are on-site and being paid, that's lax construction management on MTA's part.
59
Per the cited article, the extra workers are part of the labor agreement between the contractors and the unions. They aren't considered superfluous from the construction manager's point of view, it's an ugly necessity. I do work on NYC jobs and you get exposed to this during change order negotiations, and it's infuriating to see the price driven up by extra workers that have to hang around watching other guys do things as part of the agreement.
10
Nice job Mr. Spears. I can’t agree more with everything you have said. I have worked on MTA jobs as well and had identical experiences.
We are adding tens of thousands of people with each new rezoning scheme. We are years and years behind providing appropriate mass transit expansion to accommodate all these new people. And just to be clear: not only are we not planning for transit, we’re also not building the appropriate amount of new schools accommodate all of these new residents. More people less services, what could go tight?
25
"make sure the M.T.A. has a voice in negotiations between contractors and labor unions" The article exposes several areas where waste is built in to the process. Let's not throw the baby out with the bath water when we talk about unions and featherbedding jobs such as "oilers" and so on. The construction union and contractors will need to have financial incentive to lower the cost of the projects related to them in order to gain any political traction to move forward. Cuomo et al.. do what politicians do, the dance with them that brung them, and if them that brung them is the union or contractor, guess who calls the tune. Public funding of election would pay for itself in this one area of public policy. When will they ever learn...
6
Big Donors proved one Big Thing in the 2016 election: They got the government they paid for.
1
The problems with the subways have been building for years - as have the problems with New York State government. Follow the money.
Failure to invest in maintaining and upgrading the subway system have finally reached a point where they can't be ignored. Politicians who have to run as tax cutters to be taken seriously can't be counted on to fix the problems.
What's happening with the subways is symptomatic of the larger infrastructure problems of the country - and they're all rooted in the same thing: decades of conservative attacks on government and an absolute refusal to invest in public infrastructure unless it is done to socialize the costs while privatizing the profits. Democratic acquiescence that "the era of big government is over" ignore a hard truth.
The big problems are still out there, they're not getting smaller, and they're not going away. Looking to market forces and the private sector to magically fix things ain't gonna happen. It's going to take a massive investment from all of us through our government to turn this around - big challenges demand big government.
And while we're doing that, maybe we can start fixing the massive inequality in this country as well. Complaining about high labor costs and attacking the unions is part of how we got to this situation in the first place. Use taxes to create good jobs and meet public needs. The rich can fly out to the Hamptons in their helicopters; the rest of us need a functioning society.
45
OK, but there is no need for union construction workers to be in the top 1% in income, either. They should be willing to do the job for $100-150K a year.
1
The editorial board seems to be haggling. You want the subway fixed but you don't like the asking price. May I remind you, Paris and London haven't spent the last hundred plus years neglecting their subway infrastructure. Both countries had to do a massive overhaul in light of WWII anyway so their infrastructure is relatively new. I would expect their renewal costs to come in significantly lower than New York as a result. You're paying a premium now for ignoring the work that should have been done long ago in the past. You can't blame anyone but New York for that problem.
23
I think you mixing two unrelated issues together. One is operational and maintenance cost which as you point out is probably lower for London & Paris and second which is network extensions. And that is main issue to be pointed out in article. It states that Paris spent $450M per mile where New York $1.5B in one case and $2.5B in other. And what is asked is what are reasons for 3-5 times higher price per mile and possible solutions which might be considered to bring expenses to comparable with rest of the world.
9
Andy, the article is about expanding, adding miles of subway and the cost thereof, not maintenance. It is very safe to assume that such expansion costs should not be significantly more in NY than in other similar cities in the world.
13
No. I'm talking about expansion. If you're renovating a kitchen, the contractor will charge more if he has to redo wiring from the 1920s before installing new appliance. If the kitchen was already rebuilt in the 1950s, the cost will be lower. The same is true for subway expansion per mile. Building an extra mile of subway is going to be more expensive if you need to make the new mile work with a signal system that shouldn't even be in production anymore. I'm sure there's some corruption and price gouging but the full amount is not the fault of unions alone.
5
As a former MTA Official, I do recall the beginning of the MTA’s decline started when George Patacki become Governor. His budget cutbacks began the forced departure of the MTA’s most talented staff, most of which have been replaced by political hacks or individuals with “poor” credentials. To save the MTA, the Governor's smothering influence and political interference must be eliminated or the entire system will continue down a death ward spiral.
54
And that is the same thing that occurred when the governor of New Jersey slowly sucked upwards of 90% of NJ TRANSIT's budget. No raises for 7/8 years to management, the hiring of know-nothing political allies of Governor Bridgegate, contributed to a mass exodus of experienced, caring employees. This is what happens when politicians are put in place to run these agencies. Unfortunately, it does not look like this terrible practice will end soon. So much for hope.
9
Political hacks or individuals with "poor credentials" describe Joe Lhota exactly.
1
I’d like to see The Times write up an overview of specific actions taken by governors over the years that have led to the emergency state our subway system is now in.
Start naming names.
I believe them when they say the system they are dealing with now is old, and comparably older than do the current workers see in London and Paris. Why? Because in those countries, they've been working a long time and consistently on their infrastructure. We haven't.
I believe the other cost over runs and budget busters that have bloated the cost, but this is the reality for not having taken responsibility and action sooner and now we're going to have to pay for that neglect.
And it's not just the subway, it's the power grid, roads bridges and dams, etc. We can see the start of it in internet access and cellular phones. The prices are way up from Europe and Asia but does it go to better service, No! It goes into the pocket of trump type exec's pockets, their boards and keeping investment class stockholders happy--not innovation investment, or quality service.
So goes the subway will go our cell phones and internet.
21
"Blame for these costs belongs to politically powerful construction companies and labor unions that drive up costs under the lax oversight of public officials who have no incentive to rouse sleeping legislative watchdogs."
We shouldn't blame contractors and unions for acting in their self-interest. We should blame the public officials who don't seem to care whether we get value for taxpayer money. Until we can introduce some efficiency and cost consciousness into the MTA procurement process it will be very difficult to build public support for any additional (or even the current leval of) funding.
12
Correct! Labor unions represent their members. Contractors represent themselves and their shareholders. Public officials are supposed to represent US but they don't, they just sit there (and maybe take bribes, I don't know).
1
How about blame our legislators for allowing unions to become/remain so powerful? How about the lawyers and legislators who promote the scaffold law to enrich themselves? How about the public who just wants to sue and blame, jacking up the costs for everyone?
Leaders who do not actually lead are the anti-heroes of world history and far outnumber the protagonists who do. When I swelter on the NYC subway (these days as a visitor) I think often of Messrs Cuomo and de Blasio and their trips to Iowa. I think for whom I might vote for president in 2020. I think not either.
9
As a former NYC subway conductor, retired since 2014, I got to see the "redemption" and the following sadly downward spiral in the system. Politics, as always, rule the day. The politicians approach has resulted in "fixing" a beat up, cheap, old model car with band-aids, and a paint job, and pretending they have produced a Bentley. Glad I don't have to see the sad state of affairs anymore.
9
Are the subways' construction mechanisms allowed the license to do as they please, with no supervision, and not subject to the constraints of money and time? Is there irresponsible complacency, given the funds are public (and nobody's to watch)? Is there really incompetence and corruption combined? Do we need to hire experts from London and/or Paris to show us how it's done? Is the bureaucracy divorced from people's need, no urgency nor quality to speak of? Shouldn't the authorities, if found negligent, be fired? I suspect our taxes are wasted, our representatives asleep at the wheel...while NYC infra-structure rots away. We need new leaders that know what they are doing, and pay attention to the details, and show interest and pride in a job well done.
4
Quality of life features of a city are what create the environment that will draw intelligent, creative and driven people from around the world, thus creating a virtuous cycle. When daily life becomes intolerable, a tipping point in which people weigh whether the costs of living in a place are worth the hassle. The Times recently had an article in which New Delhi's intractable pollution was giving multi-nationals and their employees pause for doing business there. I know, I just came from India and spent two choking weeks in the dense smog; it's a tangible health hazard that leaves chests and throats heavy with inflammation.
The subway, too, is a health hazard. Daily stress of getting to one's destination, petty arguments among desperately frazzled commuters, and perennially late arrivals fray the tendrils of hope one has for each new day. It is also a life hazard--missed doctor's appointments, dinners with friends, et cetera. It's a terrible way to live, day after day. Studies indicate that one's work commute is a prime factor in their job satisfaction and performance, It also determines whether a person has enough time or energy to engage in social activities after work, including dating and finding a mate. With psychic energy reserves in tatters after commuting to and from work, every aspect of one's life is given short shrift. Eventually choices must be made, up to and including leaving the city.
New York City, Albany, Andrew Cuomo, fix this subway *now*
26
Installing hand sanitizers at all entrances and exits would be a cheap and easy way to make the subway less infectious.
They found billions to spend on a project to save a segment of the commuting public the ride on the grand central shuttle, yet the money for infrastructure maintenance can't be found. It appears that Cuomo, among others want these big projects to associate their name with, while pointing to credit for fixing the subways is not politically sexy enough. Sadly appears to be SOP in Albany and NYC for politicians.
8
There is no doubt costs are the main issue. The NY Times is doing great work exposing the inner workings of this multi-layered morass called the MTA. Subway ridership is at an all time high, fares constantly increase, and somehow we are told there is not enough revenue! We need reform, efficiency, and proper auditing, and we can definitely do that and protect fair wages and labor standards. It's difficult right now to be a working person at the mercy of this behemoth, staring every day at the evidence of all this wasted cash and structural disrepair. Help us Albany!
6
NYC's subway system is so antiquated and worn, I wonder if it's better to start from scratch (tunnels), one line at a time, instead of upgrading and repairing.
5
Wow, of all the issues, you completely whiffed on what would help the most: Performance bonuses for coming in on time and on, (or under) budget, and penalties for the norm, going over budget and running late.
Using those metrics was a highlight of Bloomberg’s policies.
8
If the New York Times hopes to change the trajectory of our transit system in decline (and our city not far behind), it will routinely press our state legislators and Governor about what they are doing to solve these problems.
When they inevitably offer more platitudes, myths, and New York exceptionalism ("It costs more because things cost more in New York City." More than London? More than Hong Kong?), it is the responsibility of this paper not only to point out their obfuscations and falsehoods, but to help us learn the solutions to these problems where they have been faced elsewhere, and to amplify the voices of those advocating for them.
The subway is critical to the survival of our city. Until the twin crises of maintenance and cost control are admitted – let alone addressed – by those whose responsibility they are, I will become a single-issue voter. When the same elected state officials who failed to lead yesterday, fail to answer today's questions, endorse their opponents tomorrow.
3
I am a guy that used my Metrocard in subway & bus 5 to 7 times a day, it is an absolute disgrace for the Governor to treat the citizens of Ny the way he does, people don't have another mode of transportation, we are at the mercy of the transit system ,the subway platform are very dangerous with the overcrowded platform due to all the delay all day long, we all suffer from the childish attitude of the governor toward the mayor, so childish that he choose an opponent of the mayor in past election to run the MTA , only to make his life more difficult, but at the end of the day, we known who is responsible for the MTA mismanagement.
sometime around 2019 the governor will have to answer to the time when he was in charge of the Ny city subway and now have the audacity to run for the highest office in the land .
9
Why does the state have any say in how the MTA is run, or any obligation to pay for it, anyway?
" the governor will have to answer to the time when he was in charge of the Ny city subway and now have the audacity to run for the highest office in the land ."
I wouldn't worry about that. He won't get enough votes from Southerners and 5 million NRA members will vote for anyone else.
We need an organized protest of cost overruns to take place in the streets on a weekday. Something of the magnitude we saw after the inauguration last January, so that the political machinery in the state gets the message that enough is enough...
3
In a previous comment I wrote: Every MTA manager, board member or senior staff should be required to take public transportation to work (interpreted broadly) No excuses, if they have special needs they have to fend like the rest of us. Now lets include everyone who contracts with MTA. All union officials, all management of contractors and their subcontractors as condition of the contract must take public transportation. And even the bankers and lobbyists who are in anyway associated with contracts must take the subways. No late night cars to ferry them to the suburbs or wherever. And uber pool doesn't count as public transportation. Sick and tired of this!
18
Oh no--when in doubt blame the unions for the current MTA crisis. Bashing union workers who are doing their best to keep New York City moving 24/7 is not the answer. Sure I wish things were better with the Far Rockaway A train which is a nightmare in the current deep freeze. However the Rockaways have always been a public transportation disaster and once we lose the A train for whatever the reason Rockawayites become very creative very fast. To improve things why can't the S train from Beach 116th Street to Broad Channel become a real train running into Manhattan. That would take the stress off the already overworked A train which becomes very crowded at the Howard Beach/JFK station and the Aqueduct Racinio. I never saw so many elderly people become Olympic track stars to make the A train at the Aqueduct Racino station.
If the Times desperately needs a scapegoat why not blame MTA management and their bloated salaries and unnecessary perks? I have never forgiven Joe Lhota for raising subway fares after Hurricane Sandy demolished mass transit to the Rockaways.
7
Union corruption and salaries are also a major part of the problem. What city can afford to pay union workers to stand around doing nothing?
2
Bill, the editorial fails to make clear what youi, from far away, do NOT understand.
The Transit Workers Union Local 100 that staffs the subway, including its routine maintenance, are CITY employees.
The workers on these capital projects are union workers (sandhogs, electricians, masons, et. al.) who work for the PRIVATE CONTRACTORS, which have won the bids to do the work.
They are very different people.
As for the featherbedding, the MTA has to toughen up in its contracting oversight.
An alternative, maybe a good one, might be to stop bidding out contracts and make the agency do the work itself. There are plenty of capital items in a $32 billion five year plan. Hire them to the MTA and eliminate a layer of waste.
2
Bill--you live in a non-union right to work state. It's hardly a big secret that the South hates unions.
Corruption, corruption, corruption. Shall I say it again? Corruption has been the operative hallmark of the NYC subway system since the incipient days of Boss Tweed and Mayor Hugh Grant. Nothing has changed, the pols, the unions, the bureaucrats etc., see their opportunities and they take them. Sadly they take the taxpayers and straphangers at the same time.
6
The $12 billion East Side Access Capital Project is the biggest Pataki era boondoggle the M.T.A. has going. What does it do for $12 billion? It gets a couple 'a thousand LIRR riders a few blocks east in Midtown. I'd like to see the cost benefit analysis for that. Come to think of it, the M.T.A. should publicly open all of it's books! Ever heard of the S Train? Duh!
3
It was originally budgeted at $2.5 billion, and scheduled to open in 2009.
As far as I can tell, it doesn’t even include intermediate stops at Queens Plaza, where dozens of high rises are under construction, and 63rd St. Those would get some riders off the subway entirely, which would help a little to fight the overcrowding on the subway, and direct connect to the Second Av. subway, but, as usual, they didn’t think it through.
4
I support the editors’ calls for more intelligent, focused and ample funding for NYC’s subway system, which is a central pillar of the city’s economic vitality and success. New Yorkers can’t let their subway system deteriorate to the state at which it kinda-sorta operated forty years ago. And constant editorial attention is one of the keys to preventing that.
But, some perspective: it’s not within galaxies right now as bad as it once was.
I came to NYC at Christmas of 1976, forty-one years ago. I’d just finished college on the West Coast and decamped for the city at the earliest opportunity to start my life for real. My first subway ride, in early January 1977, was an experience. The car literally was ancient, even then – it had those charming fans in the corners, and I believe they have one in the New York Transit Museum, in Brooklyn, along with stuffed raptors as examples of High Jurassic transportation methods. It was festooned, inside and out, with graffiti that covered everything. It was filthy; it smelled badly; during winter you froze solid and during summer you lost five pounds in sweat; and it broke down frequently, as did the even-more-ancient signal system and tracks, occasioning widespread transportation chaos. The stations were something out of Dante.
It took beaucoup billions to bring the subway system back, and many years. New Yorkers must not allow it to deteriorate to that state ever again. But today, with all its problems, isn’t 1977 by whole galaxies.
8
I remember the subways in the 1970s. The subway today is far worse. In the 70s, you would eventually get to your destination. These days, you may never get to your destination by subway. I was on a train recently that announced that it was not going below 34th street and there were no 1,2,or 3 trains going below 34th st. This was unscheduled. In the 70s, people always had subway service, even if the trains offended their senses. Now, for instance, Riverdale residents and others go for long periods of time without any service whatsoever. I hear service announcements about trains not going to Brooklyn. You never heard that in the 70s. I'd rather have a dirty hot train that runs than one that does not run at all.
9
That would have put your arrival in the third year of the MTAs “deferred maintenance” program, necessitated by the NYC Fiscal Crisis. Remember “Ford to City: Drop Dead?”
What happens to maintenance deferred? Does the system dry out like a raisin in the sun?
3
Diane:
Those announcements almost certainly have to do with planned maintenance of tracks by the MTA. Get used to it.
Paul:
I remember "Ford to City: Drop Dead!" very well. Maintenance deferred is like deciding never to change the oil in a car. Sooner or later, it's going to seize-up.
3
Well, the Brian Rosensthal "article" the editorial so praises here, seemed very confused by the difference between the LIRR and NYC Transit--right both are part of the MTA. (The expensive East Side access tunnel that the article went on about is an LIRR project.)
Even more problematic: That same "reporting" omitted a huge factor in keeping the costs lower in Paris: France has strong single payer medical insurance. No subway builder is having to work for his/her benefits, vacation, or paid medical leave.
Now, this editorial fails to note that the London subway system is much much deeper underground and therefore the tunnels+tracks suffer less flooding and water damage. And also like France, the UK has strong single payer medical insurance.
Subway service in NYC was much better 20 years ago, and declining, but still better than today, 10 years ago. What's the problem? Approximately 23 years ago, George Pataki started massive cuts to MTA funding. Giuliani added more smaller cutbacks. While no governor, or mayor, has restored those monies.
Is there waste in the subway system? Sure. Just by way of example: I specifically want to know why my only 12 year old above ground station house is severely decayed. The rusted beams of a roof that I noted just today are a sign it wasn't built correctly, and then it wasn't maintained--and this example has no direct bearing on trains or tracks, but it sure is waste.
48
Firstly, the article does mention the cost of health insurance and how it's a minimal factor. Secondly, the London subway is not deeper, or if it is on average, that's not the point since recent exorbitantly expensive construction in New York City has been defined by excessive depth - East Side Access, Second Avenue Phase I, and the 7 extension are all really deep and really expensive. Thirdly, as far as cash flow- the MTA has been forced to borrow money but unlike other cash-starved transit agencies in America, it's always had plenty of money to waste, which is the whole point. Financially speaking it's a catastrophe but it's never been an issue of not having the cash on hand to do something- that money is raised by bonds and the cost dumped on future riders.
Yes there were some funding cuts, which was an irresponsible policy- but the point of that article is that CAPITAL projects are expensive- not that operating costs are expensive- although they are also extraordinarily expensive. If you don't believe me, Alon Levy, the "transit expert" linked in the op-ed, has written about this subject and part of why that is.
30
The article sites the health insurance cost, and it comes nowhere near to justifying the 300% increase in cost per mile. I think the tripled workforce to man identical tunnel boring machines is a great example of waste and something I see on NYC jobs every day.
4
"Firstly, the article does mention the cost of health insurance and how it's a minimal factor."
Medical insurance for those tunnel workers is not a minimal factor--it's approximately $30-40,000 per year per worker.
Those hourly rates quoted in the Rosenthal article include benefits.
"it's always had plenty of money to waste, which is the whole point. Financially speaking it's a catastrophe but it's never been an issue of not having the cash on hand to do something- "
This is sad attempt to justify the Pataki (and Giuliani) cutbacks to the MTA budget. Yes, other governors have made zero effort to restore the money.
2
I commute on the LIRR- as I've posted on here before, I don't expect East Side Access ever to be completed, so I travel to Hunterspoint Ave and then into midtown via 7 Subway. This past year, service on 7 train has deteriorated drastically, so I hope that efforts will be made to keep the line running properly.
10