I recently watched, from a hillside vantage point, the actions taken against a fire near the Monterey airport. Pilots flew blind through smoke to drop fire retardant. Courageous devotion.
Then I saw the movie "Only the Brave."
Please thank all the firefighters. They are worth our extreme gratitude.
1
NYTimes editors:
Thank you for this reporting.
As an Angelino, might I ask that in your graphics of all the fires, you add a current containment percentage? Many of us wake up each morning and the first thing we do is look for light at the end of the tunnel. This information is of course available elsewhere, but for those of us who by habit open the NYT for news as we drink our morning coffee, it would be nice to have that much awaited news first thing.
1
So many people are being displaced....where to go? How to get around? How to function? Work? Income? Schools? Rx? Pets? This is harsh and is happening now. So many people need help right now...so much is needed.
1
GLOBAL CLIMATE CHANGE Is a key factor in the fire year in California and elsewhere on the West Coast, as increases in weather extremes are caused by CLIMATE CHANGE. Meaning that the extremely dry weather conditions, extended severe droughts and extremely high winds are all attributable in part to GLOBAL CLIMATE CHANGE. I wonder if the fires this year do not herald an end to the good life, over time, on the West Coast. In addition to desertification of the land, rising sea levels related to global climate change will claim a significant proportion of the most valuable seafront properties.
1
California has a history of fire and drought. Spanish land grant families lost the source of their great wealth when their herds of cattle died off in droves during the droughts of the 1860's essentially ending the reign of the ranchos.
My Victorian grandmother remembered a Santa Barbara fire in the 1880's when the hills above town were completely in flames but one little house on the hill with a picket fence lived in by a little old lady was miraculously spared.
In the 1930's forests in the mountains above Los Angeles went up in flames frightening my mother, she was three at the time. Fires forever scared her.
My father use to talk about the Malibu and Bel-air fires of the 1950's and 1960's that destroyed thousands of canyon homes when they roared through.
So, yes, California has a long, long, history of intermittent fire and drought.
But this ERA of fire in California is very, very, different. The unprecedented rate of melt down of Ice in the Arctic brought on man-made Global warming means we're in the 'new normal' a year round season of 'permanent' drought.
Who will take responsible for America's inability to address Climate Change? Oil and Coal and the GOP; who've stuck their heads in the sands for decades?
Can I sue them for negligence when my beloved California becomes a mere shadow of it's former self? Without water CA is unlivable. Maybe this sounds like hyperbole. It Isn't. This is the NEW NORMAL in the West. Will we Adapt?
3
Homeowners’ or renters’ insurance should be mandatory in California. Anyone living in the state should be prepared to pay a modest fee to protect their residence (earthquake insurance is separate and unaffordable) given how fires have become much more common. I lost everything in the Oakland fire and remember neighbors who were uninsured and underinsured lose everything and never recover. Since so many Californians won’t voluntarily insure their residences just to save a few bucks, the state should step in and make coverage mandatory.
1
Of course, it won't truly be an emergency until the Trump golf course at Los Verdes is affected.
3
Hadn't we better declare a massive state of emergency lest LA burn in a raging firestorm??
Its called Global Warming Peeps.
1
Not one dime of Federal aid until California ends Sanctuary cities.
1
WHERE IS THE PRESIDENT AND CONGRESS AND MILITARY?
1
Please tell me how to help the immigrants who lost their homes/trailers in Sylmar and have no insurance, nor can submit a FEMA claim. I want to help, so do others.
3
Why not help all uninsured people and not just immigrants? Reasonably priced insurance is available to everyone in the state regardless of their immigration status.
1
What seems reasonable to us, may be impossible for those who struggle to pay for housing and food.
1
There is an error in your article. While undocumented non-US citizens are are not personally eligible for emergency FEMA disaster assistance, they may apply on behalf of their minor US citizen child who has a Social Security number. Their US citizen child will be the applicant and the undocumented parent will be the co-applicant.
https://www.fema.gov/news-release/2004/06/17/questions-and-answers-undoc...
3
Thanks for the clarification, I hope this information gets to those who need to know. However, I suspect undocumented individuals will be reluctant to draw attention to that fact by applying for aid through their children. Sad situation.
1
Hey, as long as Rupert is happy...
Climate change is unpredictable and may cause changes in climatology quicker then anticipated. The people in SoCal are being affected by climate variables that are too hard to predict until they occur. My heart goes out to all residents of the fire effected areas. The fire fighters are fighting a terrible situation with the mountain winds so high and the vegetation so dry. It will not be manageable until the winds subside. And the poor people that have to evacuate, where do they all go? And what do they come back to? And this has been declared a disaster area and with Washington set too shut down there will not be any federal help coming espically since CA is the bluest of states. It is a catastrophe that there will be no federal help on the way. If it was Alabama burning the army would be called out to diminish the danger. The people California is being treated by PODUS like Puerto Rico probably worse.
Pray for rain and for the people and animals of the Los Angeles greater area and an especial blessing for the fire fighters.
3
Angelenos tend to forget that they have chosen to live in a desert, Fires, mudslides, earthquakes, and Santa Ana winds are part of the deal.
3
It is more than a little interesting that so many of the natural disasters that have struck the past several years have occurred in areas that are held to be extremely attractive residential sites. Yet there are places that are meterologically benign...I happened to have moved to one such area three years ago (through darned little fault of my own) and marvel at the amount of comfort that can derived when you're not living on the edge. If Horace Greeley were alive today, he'd probably be telling young people to move to Roanoke or a similar situation.
Makes you wonder how quickly the 1% will transform into global warming environmentalists when their personal homestead is in the way of these fires.
2
The portrait of the undocumented immigration here is heart-breaking.
(And to those who might counter that he shouldn't be here in the first place... An emergency doctor would not withhold treatment on those grounds. So why, when he faces ruin in every way but medically, would we withhold help? There should be compassion and aid for ALL those who lose their homes in these disasters, regardless of status.)
(I realize I am getting ahead of myself here, and that the condition of his home is not yet known. NYT: could you update us when that information is known?)
1
Nothing prevents illegal immigrants from buying residential insurance in California. The gentleman interviewed for the article legally bought a home, and he should have also spent a few bucks more to protect it.
2
I just heard on MSNBC that the new tax plan removes the deduction people can take for personal losses from wildfires and earthquakes. And 11 California Republican representatives voted for this.
4
I agree with some of the commenters before me about emphasizing landscape and maybe working that into the insurance policy. But seriously, unless someone brilliant comes up with a flame retardant to end all fires, the only feasible thing that comes to mind is that we should regularly enforce a workforce that clears a certain amount of brush from any densely populated area. That's a tall order but employing people and utilizing a combination of local resources (firefighters for the data, environmental scientists to regulate and locate prone areas, mayors to implement, and insurance companies for homes in less population dense areas) should cost LESS than the extreme price of statewide property damage in the upcoming years as well as peoples' lives. I'm not talking about mowing down the whole hill but mowing a boundary around the hill, simply put. Only thing we got to factor is whether the seeds will disperse into boundary zones and actually grow densely enough (and dry out) to undo all the effort.
To fellow reader, sd mellieux of santa barbara ca, I grew up in West Los Angeles; I'm 73; I remember a lot of fires, Santa Barbara, Bel-Aire, Malibu, Orange County, NE San Diego County, San Bernardino Mountains — yes, I remember them all.
Along with the losses of life and property, one of the biggest problems is the high number of fires caused, not by cyclical, natural forces, but carelessness and arsonists, lots of arsonists. Nearly every time a local weatherman/woman starts to remind viewers about the upcoming "fire season," you can bet some arsonist is planning to burn something; forested mountain ranges, hillsides covered in sagebrush, wildlands, neighborhoods, whole communities.
Yes, the "fire seasons" used to be cyclical following a rainy season, followed by a dry summer in California, especially Southern California. But with climate change settling in for the long run, it appears our fire season is now running year 'round.
I may be living in Denver but, I am a SoCal native and remain so in my heart. I surfed that California coast since 1959. I have seen the changes in climate, population growth and over-development most of my life.
The fires roaring through Southern California are reminders of the all three of those major changes. All of Southern California is a coastal desert. Water is can be hard to come by. Local mountain snow melt is not enough. Neither is the Colorado River, nor the Sierra snow melt.
Yes, this has been, unfortunately, inevitable.
3
I hope that the people effected by this unfolding tragedy get the help they need. Sadly we elected a child to the White House, but there are a lot of great people stepping up to the plate these days, and I know elected officials in California will do what's necessary to combat this fire. Thanks to the brave fire fighters working to contain these terrible blazes.
In past fire episodes, we have found that almost all of the fires were deliberately set.
1
I just watched the sunset from the beach in Tijuana, as what looked like Ventura smoke drifted toward the Coronado Cays just south of me and north of Ensenada. It muted the sun in an orange glow where the sun's ball was apparent rather than clear when sinking at the horizon, but as it did, that sky south of the Cays filled with darkness blending with this smoky strip from the north. The irony behind this tragedy is how chaparral adapted to wildfires by their roots, so that the ash above ground becomes irrelevant to the possibility for rain, then green in spots. I learned that as a member of the San Diego Backpackers Club, from a docent of the Natural History Museum. I regret that the suburbs were developed in oblivion to that fact, while I can't imagine what that ignorance will cost the insurance companies.
1
Thank you and be safe to all the brave firefighters fighting this terrible fire. Thoughts of hope to people of Southern California, especially beautiful Ventura County.
God bless the folks in CA who are fighting the fires or have been affected by them. Sending many prayers to all.
I haven't read or seen where Gov. Brown has activated the National Guard to help out and if this isn't as big of a natural disaster as the hurricanes that hit Florida and Texas then I don't know what would be. This looks to be a situation of all hands on deck.
1
This is the California equivalent of the trio hurricanes that hit the East Coast. Where is the national response? Where is the WH on releasing emergency funds to assist the state of California? Where is the mobilization of firefighting staff and tools from other states?
California accounts for one of the largest contributors to the national economy. Any kind of major impediments to this economy will bleed into the rest of the nation. Hundred of housings have been burned. It will take months and years for these areas to recover. That is not even accounting for businesses other than real estate.
By all means, this is not just a state emergency, this is a national emergency. The fires can spread at rapid speed. This is a country that mobilized entire units of medical and military personnel within days to Haiti after the earthquake in 2010. If the federal government wants to, they can mobilize massive disaster relief personnel. The ability to mobilize national resources in times of disasters is an unquestionable power of the federal government. The question is why that set of apparatus is not being mobilized.
Are they in the process to do so? Are they simply stuck because of all the political deadlock in DC? Or do they not care because California is a predominant blue state? Are they punishing Democrats? Or has the federal gov become so incompetent, only in areas they are neither red nor purple.
Humans can move mountains. Irrigate the Great Plains to grow food for the nation. Make airports and planes. Rocket ships to distant planets. But get Californians to clear the brush around their homes? Never!!! It’s away of life for them or something. They look at the dead brush around their homes and get hypnotized by it. Does California know that it’s just California that has neighborhoods burn down on a regular basis? When will the state that knows everything figure out what makes fire?
All I know is.. a couple more of these and Gov. Brown will want to raise taxes again! Here comes another gas tax!
1
My heart goes out to the people of SoCal. May they be safe. I feel quite sad about the loss of domestic as well as wild animals.
We need to find a way to work with nature and avoid these disasters.
Take care for yourselves and others.
12
I lived in Ventura from 1999-2000 and my dad's side of the family is from the Santa Monica area. Friends are dotted all over the area, from Ventura down to Long Beach and Huntington Beach and further down. This breaks my heart, though it's not shocking. Every year, the effects of climate change roil through the most vulnerable areas of the planet and expose their weaknesses. The firefighters will soon not be able to keep up. The US must adopt a stronger stance on climate change. Meanwhile, my thoughts and love go out to friends down there. Hang tough, you guys; winter and I swear, a bit of rain, will come.
12
The ecology of much of California is the Mediterranean Forest, Woodland, and Brush Zone that is characterized by short wet winters and long dry seasons. In this zone, fires play an essential role in ecology and most species are dependent on fires for plant health. Indeed, some pyrophyte species such as cannot thrive without fires that burst their seeds or clear the brush. Long before humans showed up, these zones depended on lightening strikes to renew and replenish its ecology. Given this, massive fires have always been part of California's past and future. The best we can do is engage in better city and regional planning to build more defensible neighborhoods and homes. This means building more compact housing developments, minimizing intrusion into wild lands, building defensible boundaries, and upgrading the building code. Most importantly, transparent rules need to be in place so that firefighters do not jeopardize their lives to save structures and neighborhoods that are built in hard to protect areas. One can build your homes in areas that history teaches us will be burned and flooded, but you will not be able to get insurance and you cannot expect an army of firefighters to risk their lives to protect your property. If we minimize the loss of human life and property, we can let many of these fires burn and let them carry out their roles. This will lessen the intensity of the next inevitable fire and minimize the likelihood of these deadly conflagrations.
29
That all sounds good, but remember that in the recent Santa Rosa fire, blocks & blocks of housing was destroyed on typical suburban flat streets, many had tile or metal roofs, often stuco walls, along with sprinkler systems, etc., which all collapsed & melted. When you have 90mph winds blowing embers across a six-lane freeway, and landing on multiple houses at random, creating a vortex of fast-moving 100ft tall flames, as just happened here, no amount of defenseble boundaries or building code upgrades will do anything to help. It's all about how fast you can get out, so as not to die.
2
I understand that with 80 mph winds there is not much an individual can do to prepare except having an early way out of danger. It is also clear that a whole new layer of state oversight and fire control may be in order.
Are there tax rebates on installing fire-proof roofs in CA? State deductions for the safe perimeter?
6
That's 181 square miles, folks. It's huge and the truth of the matter is, with 80 mph winds, firefighters, while they might save a few houses, are pretty much powerless to stop the fire. Let's salute them for at least trying. When the winds die or the fires burn to the ocean, firefighters will have a chance (fires are unlikely to burn back on themselves--most of the fuel is gone).
So our efforts to master nature are unavailing, as they have always been. It's time to respect the planet and to work with it rather than against it.
21
Hopefully things have changed since the Oakland Hills Firestorm, but the current anti-regulatory mood has me very concerned.
During that fire, I was fighting it at a wood-structured school in a hollow of eucalyptus trees. We had a fire plug, and a fire company dropped off a 4" hose for us to use. Unfortunately, the threading was different on the hose and the hydrant. I headed for the command center and got a coupler from some other firefighters. That didn't fit either. I went back six, seven, or eight times, each time getting a different coupler. None fit!
Try standing in the middle of a fire, flames going over your head in the trees, with a hose in one hand, a water source in the other, and no way to connect them. Do that, and then you can tell me about the evils of government regulation.
One other incident from that Oakland event, this regarding government regulations and inspections. I went to connect "garden" hoses to the water spigots on the outside of several buildings, but when I turned the faucets nothing happened. I crawled under a couple of buildings and discovered the spigots had never been connected to water, shrinkwrap still over their internal ends. Neither the building contractor nor the city inspectors had done their job. Building and operating a safe school should not require a faith-based initiative. That's why we have government, not anarchy.
Hopefully that is all ancient history and the current horrors are not exacerbated by ideological stupidity.
21
I lost my home and everything related to a lifestyle in the great Bel Air fire of 1961. Those were more "natural" days. As an environmental scientist, most of my colleagues and I saw this all coming years ago. As we continue Carbon emissions, related matters will only get worse. Stop dreaming. This is very real and nothing significant is being done to solve the problem other than to repeat silly phrases. Get smart, understand what is really happening and get active. Otherwise, repeat after me: "Our father, who art in heaven...."
15
Really
Has anyone not followed the firestorms in Australia and their effect? They reach tornado-like behaviours which have not been modelled and cannot be predicted. The temperatures inside these firestorms have not been seen before. So, for those interpreting these events as a blip on the map, I do encourage you to move there and resolve the situation.
8
Seems some of these fires are being started on purpose.
Hope rain comes soon.
Cali is a beautiful state
1
“I’ve got to be honest, we’re concerned about everything,” said Armando Hogan, an assistant Los Angeles fire chief.
"Everything" is a lot. It's not often that is said by an official who normally is compelled to say something squishy and evasive. But I'm sure he's right (he is, after all, right there) and it's got to be terrifying for those people. Unimaginable for the rest of us.
9
All of you who are saying 'Oh, if they had just cleared away some brush here or not allowed developing here' are full of hogwash. The wind is 80+ mph, enough to blow flaming ashes for miles. Southern California is sunny and dry most years, and there have been droughts in recent years. These are forces of nature that no amount of planning, short of having every building made of brick and stone, can overcome.
Just send good wishes to the people there, and be supportive after this is all over. Like anyone, they will need it and they deserve it.
17
Just a note of thanks to the New York Times and the many thoughtful readers (not the ones exploiting a crisis to bash Trump) who have contributed to the excellent coverage of the fires in both Southern and Northern California. With limited on the ground resources, you have put the LA Times’s coverage to shame and provided considerably more insightful reporting and analysis. Kudos to the person(s) co-ordinating the coverage, especially if they are doing it in a newsroom 3,000 miles away.
I also want to note that the daily California Today column provides me with considerably more information about what’s going on in my home state than reading an entire week of LA Times issues. It’s noteworthy how few articles from the LA Times are cited in that column.
I’ve noticed that some of the smartest insights on your comments pages come from legions of California readers. I’m guessing that the California commenters are paying subscribers, not Facebook users, who want access to all the Times’s content.
The Times might want to consider significantly expanding its editorial staff in California. If you could cover the state with the impressive standards you’ve covered the fires, I’d pay double the cost of my subscription. And I suspect, so would many of your other LA and California-based readers. We are starved for information here, as there are no quality publications remaining that cover the state.
22
I second the motion suggested by the comment above!!!
I lived in Ventura one time and owned a home there.
It's one of the best areas to live close to L.A.
It's far enough from L.A. for properties to be affordable (at least 40 years ago) and close enough that you could go to Santa Monica for a dinner and come back home.
Ventura also was small enough that you knew your neighbors.
So, I am saddened to see this loss.
And am particularly fearful that friends of long lasting may have lost their home where I remember some of the best parties.
Hopefully, I am wrong but I am unable to connect with them.
God bless.
6
Hopefully things have changed since the Oakland Hills Firestorm, but the current anti-regulatory mood has me very concerned.
During that fire, I was fighting it at a wood-structured school in a hollow of eucalyptus trees. We had a fire plug, and a fire company dropped off a 4" hose for us to use. Unfortunately, the threading was different on the hose and the hydrant. I headed for the command center and got a coupler from some other firefighters. That didn't fit either. I went back six, seven, or eight times, each time getting a different coupler. None fit!
Try standing in the middle of a fire, flames going over your head in the trees, with a hose in one hand, a water source in the other, and no way to connect them. Do that, and then you can tell me about the evils of government regulation.
One other incident from that Oakland event, this regarding government regulations and inspections. I went to connect "garden" hoses to the water spigots on the outside of several buildings, but when I turned the faucets nothing happened. I crawled under a couple of buildings and discovered the spigots had never been connected to water, shrinkwrap still over their internal ends. Neither the building contractor nor the city inspectors had done their job. Building and operating a safe school should not require a faith-based initiative. That's why we have government, not anarchy.
Hopefully that is all ancient history and the current horrors are not exacerbated by ideological stupidity.
1
LA is located in a desert. The city and its residents need to recognize that they do not live in England and that the endless shrubbery and green lawn have to go. Replace the landscaping with xeriscaping where there are no lawns or shrubs other than native plants that can survive without watering. Xeriscapes are quite beautiful and require no mowing or watering. It is good for fauna. No herbicide is necessary. Have you ever heard of a fire in a desert?
3
Xeriscaping will not stop 80mph winds, nor 100ft tall flames. I feel much safer here in California with my house protected by its moist green lawn and other water-loving plants, rather than dry flamable desert plants.
Yes, there are wildfires in deserts. Green lawns are actually good to have next to your house in fire-prone areas. (Not good for water conservation however)
I’m afraid that the only thing that will convince Americans that climate change is real, is experiencing its devastating effects first hand. Until then, willful ignorance and blind faith will only exacerbate the problem as we continue to overlook the acute need for immediate behavioral changes on both individual and governmental levels.
5
I grew up in southern California and still have a lot of friends and family there. Seeing this is ripping my heart out. To everyone out there you have my thoughts and prayers. Stay safe.
2
Million dollar homes and senior care residences, independent businesses, vulnerable wild animals living in the tinder dry forests; all will suffer terribly.
California most certainly has become the latest canary in the coal mine state trying to tell us all something ominous is occurring right before our eyes. And yet, not one peep from our government, or anyone really who can actually change the downward climate trajectory, about taking any real time action to try to reduce our carbon lead foot footprint of deadly over-development and excessive resource dependence.
It's all about ever more "tax-cuts" for the insanely wealthy, and higher insurance premiums and tuition for everyone else. I'm convinced (and fear) that the US's best days are long long behind us. Depressing.
37
CA. Governor, Jerry Brown has been extremely active, progressive on Climate Change. The U.S. pulled out of the Paris Agreement and gave Gov. Jerry Brown more incentive to push forward and join with European and other nations.
7
Actually, I think nothing *can* be done about the climate now. It would take a reversal of policy and practice that has no precedent and in the US no political support. And now there is too big a gap between the trend and the remedy for small, well-intentioned individual actions to make much difference.
I am sorry to be so abjectly pessimistic. I used to be a firm believer in everyone contributing a little bit, but it's now gone too far. (Of course, it doesn't hurt, either.) IF the trend in CO2 emissions was reversing, then maybe, but it isn't. You're right about one thing. There is a lot of blame to go around, but the US is in a unique position to change the world - and itself - for better or worse, and it has decided to choose worse.
10
This picture is not Ojai nor particularly near Ojai. It is on the Pacific Coast Highway, U.S. 101, near Faria Beach. With regards to fires in the coastal ranges of California, they are regular and predictable and have occurred throughout known history. There is no way to "control" them in a mountainous region without access by fire fighting vehicles and the winds can be too strong for aircraft due to our Sundowner or Santa Ana wind gusts. And no, we cannot blame everything on Global Warming; these fires are a part of what makes up living in the Western United States.
17
I feel for California. I love to vacation there. California's my favorite state after my own. The people are always so friendly. I plan to continue spending my money there.
But the truth is that California is now permanently in the fire zone, as much as New Orleans and Houston are permanently in the flood zone.
Because even before human-caused global warming began to increase drought and fires in these area, California was already in the fire zone. Same goes for Portugal, Spain, Italy and Greece (my four favorite European countries).
Californians need to RAISE taxes to fund a more vigorous fire suppression system. And Californians need MORE environment regulations to end runaway growth in the fire zone, just as much as the folks in Houston and New Orleans need it.
27
Unfortunately David our increased growth is supported by our Democratic ruling class as well as our subservient Republicans. There is no way to raise enough money to do fire suppression in rugged and mountainous desert. The state is too big and the ruggedness of our terrain is permanently daunting. As we have built into unmanageable areas over the past 50 years we have created a problem without a solution and now we have to live and die according to our combination of nature and humans...For those folks claiming Global Warming please note that the huge fire in NorCal came after a wetter than average year and we have few droughts in NorCal albeit we do not have sufficient water storage. That conflagration was due to growth into previously agricultural areas without infrastructure.
4
I have always loved visiting California, too. (And NM! I'd love to live there.) California needs to once again lead the world in innovative policy in methods to *avoid* such fires, maybe working hand in hand with their European brothers. These fires' effects also go well beyond state and national boundaries but I doubt that US national policy will ever be helpful as long as one business is slightly inconvenienced by it.
1
When the first denizen of the U.S., Donald Trump, does not participate in the Paris Agreement for climate control, treatens to do away with EPA, projects a macho image that the country runs better and regulations are bumpers towards progredd, no wonder the great city of L.A. may smolder much like Rome did and Donald Trump may go down in hisory as anothe Nero, after all the city did not vote for him .....
9
DT wants to see Cali destroyed because they did not vote for him!
It only took 3 reader responses to get to a blame it on Trump.
Hollywood will probably turn this tragic event into a 2018 summer blockbuster disaster movie.
3
Don't doubt for a minute that they're out there taking B-roll right now.
1
As a resident of Thousand Oaks, we have fires to the east, north, and west of us. The sky goes from clear to smoky in a matter of minutes, depending upon the wind direction. This is the nature of living in California.
There are fires, earthquakes, floods, and just about every known disaster to humankind. But here is the thing: There is nowhere on this planet where one is completely safe. We have to take individual responsibility to protect ourselves, prepare for emergencies, plan, and think rationally. A society, we have a responsibility to assist our neighbors, collectively prepare for the known and unknown, and work together as a community. Individuals, communities, local, state, and federal government all have a role. This is the nature of civilization.
1
The local fire authority has been pounding away trying to educate people as to how they can better protect their homes: vegetation selection, maintenance and clearance, not stacking firewood against the house (where it can be ignited by embers and burn the house), non-flammable patio furniture, and so forth. Public education takes time and labor.
That combined with better and better building codes (non-flammable roofing, spark arrestors, enclosed eaves, 1/8" or less metal screens in roof vents, double paned tempered glass windows, no exposed wood, removal of extremely fire-prone ember-producing plants like Eucalyptus and Palms) makes a huge difference in a homes ability to survive a wild fire.
Watching the local news and looking up the burned homes on Google Street View, one can see that many of the burned homes had either older, less stringent building code construction, or no brush clearance. Fire survivability is not rocket science. Unfortunately it involves government inspections and regulations, currently deemed "evil" or too expensive.
18
Enthusiastically recommend this post. Thank you.
3
Eucalyptus trees are "gasoline on a stick".
Palms are not such a problem.
3
I live in a small, rural community and last year I nearly lost my house to a wildfire. 300 people in my community were not as luck as I was and their homes burned to the ground. I can tell you from very personal experience, wild driven fires are not swayed by vegetation clearance or zeroscapeing. Most of the houses that burned had the clearance required by our county, and rock landscaping because our water is expensive. My husband was on the front lines trying to stay ahead of the fire and evacuate everyone. The fire moved so fast nothing could stop it. Claiming that these fire could be easily stopped is ignorance.
"The fuel around here is mostly grass, but it’s dry grass and it really hasn’t burned for many years. The confluence of the hot, dry winds and that fuel that’s been building for so many years has just created this awful situation.”
Tom Sheaffer , Ventura
The solution is not to let fuel building up for many years - and any build up included in the cost of home insurance.
1
Trump and his minions in the GOP were folly to shut down the EPA and muzzle both NOAA and NASA, all of whom monitor and study climate change-related natural disasters, like the current one in LA.
A Tweet from a Los Angeleno that was retweeted or liked 22,000 times: If the fires upset you and you live in Santa Clarita, Simi Valley, Palmdale, Lancaster: consider reaching out to your Rep Steve Knight, who voted to ELIMINATE all of our TAX DEDUCTIONS for personal LOSSES from WILDFIRES. Don't like the sound of this? Tell him. #LAFires
We can't stop climate change, but we can adapt, but not without the full support of the state and Federal governments having a major stake in addressing the needs of those who are victims of said climate change-induced disasters.
22
One wonders whether these latest California fires were caused by one person (arsonist) or 7.6 billion persons (we of the human race who are all complicit in climate change). Either way, thanks to Donald Trump and his camp of callous, ignorant climate-change deniers, Mother Nature is rebelling. And her revolution against us has only begun...
11
Yea, these fires never happened before Trump...
1
One reason why I left California is its two extreme vulnerabilities: it shakes, and it burns.
Because it's so overpopulated now cities sprawl deep into "Wild Lands" mainly to the northeast. Population density is concentrated along the coastline, but communities' tentacles reach deep into the hilly hinterland to the east. Thanks to Natural Selection the vegetation there propagates through fire, its seeds wind-blown in all directions. It wouldn't matter if so many people hadn't built around there, but they have; light-frame structures, wood and stucco, mostly constructed of flammable materials. That's because of the earthquake danger. Light-frame housing can roll with the ground as it heaves.
Building high isn't really an option. It can be done, of course, and is in areas where Big Money resides -- West Side Los Angeles being one. As a West Side boy I watched those hillsides burn in late September through October. But the high rise condo towers that now line Wilshire Boulevard from downtown to Santa Monica, just south of Bel-Air and UCLA, strike me as a very dicey bet; expensive death traps in my estimation come The Big One.
And it's coming. Seismically, Los Angeles is much more dangerous than San Francisco or the South and East Bays. And Los Angeles is overdue for an 8.5 or greater.
It shakes, and it burns ... .
2
It is time for ALL of America (including California) to repent of our sins and pray, pray, pray. Almighty God can control the winds (and everything else) but we ALL need to pray, pray, pray.
We must do our part (by repenting, praying, fighting the fires, getting all the help we can, etc.) and ask Almighty God to do His part. If we do our part and God does His part that is all that can be done.
2
Really? Thoughts and prayers? That will fix it? Its easy to type out the words thoughts and prayers on your device. What they need is more sweat equity.
19
Pastor Page: God is doing his part. If you believe in God, he alone is the entity in charge of mother nature.
3
Did you ever think that God might be providing the solutions with the Paris Accord, regulations regarding fire prevention, and the presence of a strong and viable EPA and NOAA? Perhaps He (or She) answered your prayers and people weren’t listening?
2
Move to Florida. You'll love it here. Talk about sunshine! Yes, we get hurricanes from time. But you get tons of warning and they're never as bad as predicted.
2
In a previous season, my parents almost lost their house and my aunt a couple of streets over did lose hers. Much of the neighborhood burned even though it is less than a mile from a lake, from which, eventually, fire planes began to scoop out water to douse the fires from overhead. The damage would have been less if a fire plane department were stationed permanently at the lake. If we are going to build and sell homes in predictable fire zones, we'll need a better plan than "We'll try," or "We can't control it." Government, figure it out, and I don't want to hear "We can't afford it" from people who don't want to pay their taxes.
41
Or, you know, just zone these areas so homes can't be built there.
1
Joe--I hope you are not a Republican. Your admonition,"Government, figure it out," would be pure hypocrisy if you are. Perhaps the Heritage Foundation or those folks at California's own Hoover Institute can help.
the pictures of firefighters dragging hoses along the ocean shouldn't be labeled "Ventura County firefighters work to douse embers in Ojai" as Ojai is an inland community, not on the coast!! Regardless, we need more,not less, government to help solve these huge pan-continental problems!! Climate change is real people, so start working to slow it down!!
7
Where is implementation of new zoning, construction and insurance regulations for parts of the country at increasing risk of climate disruption including:
1. Fires in the West
2. Tornadoes in the midwest
3. Hurricanes in the south and northeast
4. Rising water levels along the coasts and low lying areas.
And let's not forget about our increasing awareness of major earthquakes and tsunamis.
Our biggest risk however may be president Trump, the worst president imaginable in a crisis. Take your pick.
22
Consider better ways to fight forest fires. Now we fight forest fires by building fire breaks in front of the fire, putting the fire fighters at risk that the fire will advance faster than expected. Could we instead fight from behind, by slowing the wind that feeds the fire?
Snow fences slow the wind, to build drifts, to protect roads and structures.
Could we slow the wind to fight fires? Could we fly kites at 100', holding fire-proof cloth venetian blinds, launched from heavy-all-wheel drive trucks? Snow fences can create drifts as high as the fence and stretching 6X to 10X that far; slowing the wind that high and fast from a 100' cloth venetian blind might significantly slow a fire. One might even be able to have the kite spray mist, lowering the temperature and increasing the humidity of the air.
4
As a veteran of 2 wildfires and evacuations, you have go to be smoking something, if you think these are viable solutions.
2
In many cases attempts to block wind only accelerate it. That's why the wind at the old Candlestick Park in San Francisco was so bad--they built a hill on the west side behind it, the direction of the prevailing wind in the Bay Area, which made the wind blow harder.
Wind is not solid, like snow, it behaves more like a fluid. You can't just "hold it back." It flows into channels and gets stronger. Study your fluid dynamics.
You know it's bad when it's affecting the multimillion dollars homes. I thought the whole premise of our society was to prevent this sort of thing from happening to our richest and most powerful?
21
My Mom and her entire extended family had to evacuate Ojai, where my family has lived for over 100 years. (Huge props to the firefighters who battled back an intense blaze that was threatening the town last night. Amazing and heroic work -- thousands of residents were up in the middle of the night listening to the fire scanner.)
My brother-in-law's parents lost their home of 50 years in the Santa Rosa fire. Another relative's home was threatened by fires in the Santa Cruz area this year. I couldn't take my family to Big Sur because of a blaze there. A friend moved away from the San Diego mountains after one of their massive fires. And I have a bag packed and a full gas tank in case we need to evacuate in the next few days here in San Diego, where the wind is picking up amid dry conditions.
This is life in California. I choose to live here, and love it, but I recognize the risk. One day you could be at the beach and the next, your house could be gone.
52
When the first denizen of the U.S., Donald Trump, does not participate in the Paris Agreement for climate control, treatens to do away with EPA, projects a macho image that the country runs better on its own with least regulations, no wonder the great city of L.A. may smolder much like Rome did and Donald Trump may go down in hisory as anothe Nero, after all the city did not vote for him .....
15
or maybe, they brought it on themselves?
I am sure your little comparison will stay the course with blaming the Christians for the fire like Nero did? There has to be a liberal out there making that claim somewhere as we speak.
This is child's play compared to what the San Andreas fault has in store for California. No need to weep now, but you will in all of your pride, you will.
3
I grew up in Los Angeles and spent most of my adult life there. Fires are a regular occurrence because the county is surrounded by forest and that's vegetation. Rain causes it to grow and drought makes it tinder. Add in the Santa Ana winds, nasty on their own but adding the fire's ability to spread faster, and it's devastating.
This isn't global warming, this is lack of rain, hot dry winds and lots of dry underbrush. Fire is nature's way of clearing out the underbrush for new growth. It's when houses get in the way is it the destruction we see today.
But if we continue to ignore infrastructure and melting icecaps, overbuild and overpopulate, Mother Nature will continue to remind us who's boss.
8
"This isn't global warming, this is lack of rain, hot dry winds and lots of dry underbrush."
So, what you're saying is, it's global warming.
29
Yes, Kathy, "Mother Nature will continue to remind us who's boss"; however, in doing so lately, she's been beside herself trying to get through to those who deny the facts of manmade climate change and its clear role in California's wildfires. Like so many other unfortunates, you wholly delude yourself in your belief that global warming has no part in these fires. My advice to you: Wake up.
8
Kathy, the lack of rain is caused by global warming. The climate of the west coasts of both North and South America is determined by the oscillations of the Pacific Ocean, the El Nino/La Nina effect. Nino brings rain and high surf, nina brings drought and upwelling. Those oscillations are happening at an incredible speed today. Whereas the transition from one to the other used to take 10+ years to occur, they happen every few years now and it's accelerating. I grew up in SoCal too, and I don't even recognize the place anymore. This is the first time in my life that a Santa Ana event happened in December. Back in the day, they would have been facing floods, not fires.
6
Can someone tell China to stop their global climate change conspiracy?
12
California deals with earthquakes and wildfires, Indiana and states along the Mississippi deal with massive flooding, the eastern seaboard deals with hurricanes, tornado alley deals with, well tornadoes. We all deal with some type of potential natural disaster. In each of these regions the rich are affected much the same as the poor as far as threat to life and property. Saying that because it's Bel Air we are protecting their property more than the rest is just nonsense and petty. Bel Air butts right up to the low income areas of downtown Los Angeles where maids, fast food workers, retail clerks and other minimum wage workers live and raise their children. I live in a ski town that many perceive as being wealthy. Over 80% of our residents work seasonal or minimum wage jobs. What you can see isn't necessarily all there is to a town or community.
And as a side note, yes many of these fires are intentionally set, forest thinning HAS been happening for the past 15+ years via the National Forest Service (personal witness to their efforts), power lines have less impact on this problem than you would think, and humans cannot stop the wind.
7
proper land use regulations in the US would be very helpful. No building on flood plains, earthquake faults, barrier islands, or dare I say it, Oklahoma, due to tornadoes. Our insurance rates and taxes would plummet as a result. Start doing the right thing.
2
Trying to move the US population out of disaster prone areas is futile. We don't have enough territory not prone to disasters. Pretty much all of California is prone to wildfires (even without climate change), earthquakes or both. Where do nearly 40 million people go instead?
2
No building in earthquakes zones? That would be the entire Western United States!
Hopefully things have changed since the Oakland Hills Firestorm, but the current anti-regulatory mood has me very concerned.
During that fire, I was fighting it at a wood-structured school in a hollow of eucalyptus trees. We had a fire plug, and a fire company dropped off a 4" hose for us to use. Unfortunately, the threading was different on the hose and the hydrant. I headed for the command center and got a coupler from some other firefighters. That didn't fit either. I went back six, seven, or eight times, each time getting a different coupler. None fit!
Try standing in the middle of a fire, flames going over your head in the trees, with a hose in one hand, a water source in the other, and no way to connect them. Do that, and then you can tell me about the evils of government regulation.
One other incident from that Oakland event, this regarding government regulations and inspections. I went to connect "garden" hoses to the water spigots on the outside of several buildings, but when I turned the faucets nothing happened. I crawled under a couple of buildings and discovered the spigots had never been connected to water, shrinkwrap still over their internal ends. Neither the building contractor nor the city inspectors had done their job. Building and operating a safe school should not require a faith-based initiative. That's why we have government, not anarchy.
Hopefully that is all ancient history and the current horrors are not exacerbated by ideological stupidity.
24
These pictures are horrendous! Surely, this fire could have been contained before this?
1
If it could have been, it would have been.
8
Maureen -- I am one of the 50k evacuees and can tell you that, no, this fire could not have been contained. The combination of tinder dry brush, exceptionally low humidity and near-hurricane velocity wind -- plus the introduction of a spark (source yet to be determined) -- turned this into a force of nature every bit as unstoppable as a hurricane, a tornado or an earthquake. All we can do here is get out of the way and hope the flames will pass by our homes. The real solution is to acknowledge the 'new normal' of climate change by redrawing building codes and overhauling land use policies. In the wake of this years damaging and deadly conflagrations I expect there will be a fair amount of consensus about what must be done. The hard part will be figuring out how quickly to do it and how to pay for it.
6
Finally, this story gets some prominence on your Homepage! Yesterday, nothing. This morning, nothing. Los Angeles is burning down, and The Times has ignored this story.
4
My sister and her three boys live between the Skirball and Creek Fires. I have lived in Los Angeles. Wind gusts of up to 80mph is no joke.
I lost everything in Katrina and there are people of all socio-economic backgrounds who have lost, or are probably going to lose, everything to these fires.
The Bel Air bashing is disgusting and I'd highly recommend a basic refresher in how to read a friggin' map to see what's at stake beside the homes that people have worked for.
16
Climate change deniers, lead by Trump, Pruitt and most congressional republicans, are turning our planet, literally, into a kind of hell. The day will come when their children and grandchildren will ask them, with hatred in their eyes, "You did this for money and power? Money and Power?" But then it will be too late.
3
Any word from our glorious leader? Here's another crises at home or is he still touting Jerusalem as the capital of Israel to his base?
12
He must be gloating because Cali did not vote for him!
NYT - please provide up to date coverage and info that helps! A static map does not help when fires are spreading. Reports that are 8 hours old do not help either. There is a dearth of information that speaks to current conditions, including but not limited to current wind speeds, direction, cities under evacuation, and projected trajectory of fires.
If the Los Padres forest goes up in fire - assuming winds reach predicted speeds of 60-85mph, then those along the coast of Santa Barbara would be sandwiched between the burning forest and water, with one way out - north, and bumper to bumper traffic with fire at their heels. 101 south of Santa Barbara is closed due to fire - the same will happen in northerly directions as it spreads.
There should be planning ahead of oncoming fire once it is 30 miles or so away - staggered evacuations should be occurring, and not last minute evacuations when encroaching fire is upon them.
University of California Santa Barbara with 40,000 students, and SBCC and other colleges should tell students that FINAL EXAMS ARE CANCELLED, so they can choose to evacuate! Many students are anxious and afraid to leave without the university stating finals can be rescheduled.
See below for interactive map, which can be enlarged, road closures, more.
http://cdfdata.fire.ca.gov/incidents/incidents_details_info?incident_id=...
https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/viewer?mid=1tNtRBcm6XmgVJHxyY0o-Z4yXgq...
18
I'm going to ballpark that between floods, wildfires (Oregon and California) and hurricanes, climate change is going to cost about $1 trillion dollars in 2017. And even for those "lucky" enough not to live in a devastated area, the cost of all of this will be spread amongst us all. Way to go, ExxonMobil, et al!
2
Global warming to blame? Yes, although California has always been fire prone since we have months on end without rain. However, this year we had a very bad drought and prolonged periods of very hot temperatures. I can't recall a hotter year (which along with the drought has contributed to the dried brush). The California Coastal Commission bears some responsibility. Few people know that they have broad powers in controlling the canyon areas near the coast. Malibu residents were restricted from clearing brush from areas the Coastal Commission deemed an Environmentally Sensitive Habitat Area (ESHA). These ESHAs cover wide areas. Canyon areas up and down the coast are impacted by their ridiculous policies.
20
I beg to differ with your assessment of the California Coastal Commission. But for the work they have done to protect the coast it would look like Miami Beach from the border with Mexico to Oregon.
Ridiculous? Jerry Brown's father wanted to expand Highway One north of San Francisco and build high rise apartments in Stinson and Bolinas. There would be no Golden Gate Recreation Area on the other side of the Golden Gate Bridge either.
So save your criticism for a more worthy target.
This is clearly a man made problem that is made worse by stupid people in position of power. This time of year is prone to fire with high wind coming in after a prolonged dry spell. It's not Trumps fault, but it is the fault of those who hate him, through their elected officials.
I saw a TV news video this morning of a silhouetted Ca. man in great distress as he looked down from safe perch upon a hedge of burning grass. He reached his arms outward, as if to fish something from the flames. Then he would reach his hands up to the sides of his head. Back and forth. I began to think he was trying to pluck out some precious keepsake, like a family photo album. Then, I thought it might be a pet. A dark object almost bounced out of the fire. The TV anchor explained, it was a rabbit, the man was trying to save.
It reminded me of the time an NBC correspondent tried to rescue a dolphin calf that had stranded on the beach during last summer's Florida hurricane. Kerry Sanders, the reporter, finally carried the little creature in his arms as he fought his way out amid the storm, beyond the breakers, in hopes of releasing it where it would not wash up again.
I thought how their small gestures in great disasters represented man's ability to act out of sheer empathy and kindness. I wondered, why can't our political leaders, mostly our President, evince even the slightest concern of human decency upon fellow human?
25
Pray pray for LA - regardless of your religious or political affiliations - grumbling and sniping are not particularly helpful at the moment.
13
You all attack Trump and blame everything on global warming. World overpopulation, let's start with that.
8
Are you volunteering to depopulate? If not, perhaps we should consider reducing the greenhouse gas emissions of humans in the countries where pollution per capita and the resources to reduce it are greatest.
3
RE blaming Climate Change - It's not blame, rather empirical observation.
RE attacking Trump - He reaps what he sows.
6
I've heard that before. You refer to reducing the population of "inferior" peoples, as if anyone can be inferior to a Trump voter or to Trump himself.
2
From a federal standpoint, is there something that can be done to help by the U.S. national gov't?
4
The U.S Government abandoned an island about the size of the state of Connecticut, so I would be looking elsewhere for help.
13
With heartfelt sympathy for all those affected, climate change accelerates exponentially along with affluence and human population growth. Huge swaths of the mountainous west are standing dead timber, primed and ready to burn. The release of that stored carbon will help exacerbate an already dire scenario. It won't be too many more years before insurance companies can no longer afford to keep up with our mounting losses.
13
Quit building home in area prone to uncontrollable fires. Malibu seems to burn every 10 years or so. It's treacherous terrain with usually only one way in. It's not nice to fool with mother nature.
1
California has failed to deal with the water project and Gov. Brown has concentrated on a preposterous bullet train from Los Angeles to San Francisco that will never happen. But endless millions have spend on this ludicrous project. As for LA, I grew up here. Fires are common. Only the place is so over populated and over built its just bigger in scope. Like Houston and flooding. Too many people and not enough room. And LA is a desert. No one should be living here!
13
Inaccurate. The fires are largely in unpopulated areas the huge 90,000 acres in Ventura county are largely just country land but of course there are communities within and hit the populated ones. Same for Sylmar.
The overgrowth in unpopulated areas is largely I believe from the unparalleled rain last year causing enormous destruction and devastating the state. Then followed by drought again.
8
The East coast has hurricanes (Florida, New York). Texas, Louisiana, etc. have their own flooding/hurricane problems. The Midwest has tornadoes. So where do you think it's it safe for people to live in this country from natural disasters?
1
"Late Wednesday night, officials sent an emergency alert to all of Los Angeles County warning of 'extreme fire danger.'"
We received these warnings a little further South, in Orange County as well. It's disconcerting to have multiple connected devices in the household all go off at once, with the alert tone.
7
Better that than to have to run for your lives. I bet the 40 people who died in Santa Rosa would not have minded the advance notice.
I am very sad to see this destruction. I do not believe it is fair to "throw stones." California is a beautiful state.
35
Just awful. SoCal if you're listening, please take care of yourselves and stay safe.
23
Its no wonder so many of our nation's environmentalists are in California. Droughts, raging fires and speculation it might be swallowed up by the ocean sooner than we think. Breaks my heart to think of what they are going through while at the same time watching Trump decimate environment protections. Biggest contributor to the US economy so anything that happens to CA hurts all of us!
52
Thank you for your perspective
4
There are ways to build and landscape that would help with fire control. but too many people don't want government telling them what to do. Maybe the insurance companies will have better luck if and when they tell their policy holders how to rebuild. One of the biggest mistakes California made was allowing the planting of Eucalyptus trees that are extremely volatile.
After the first big wildfire in the Wood River Valley of Idaho, the local fire department developed a program called Firewise where off duty fire fighters visited homes and offered advise on how to protect them from fires. Many homeowners were grateful and followed the advice. Others took the "Get off my land approach."
80
California has been doing that for decades. When you drive through rural towns, you will see billboards posted by the state and local fire authorities reminding people to clear defensible spaces. In late spring, they drive around to look for problems and take care of them or advise property owners to do so. They also allow the power companies to charge extra to pay for their mandatory clearing of fire dangers near powerlines, but on several deadly occasions it has been demonstrated that the power companies were negligent in those duties.
9
They do that stuff in California, but there's not much you do in such windy, dry conditions. Any firefighter (from CA to ID to SC) knows that.
1
We do something like that here. Rich Montecito folks don't comply but they can afford to rebuild.
Everyone else in the foothills spends a lot of time clearing brush to get their fire permits required by their insurance.
That being said, my friend's apartment building burned in Ventura because the strong Santa Ana winds whipped embers from the forest area (that burns when overgrown and dry per the ecology of our area) to the suburbs and inner city. Look up the shocking picture of Ventura City Hall practically on fire. This historic building is like a mile-ish away from the San Buenaventura mission established by (now called saint) Junipero Serra.
I still love California! And the Central Coast is the best - even if it's on fire and choking us with ash!
2
As a 73 year-old native of West Los Angeles, I am heartbroken by the scenes of destruction these fires are creating. Over so many decades, most of the fires that ravaged Bel-Aire, Malibu, Santa Barbara, Orange County and into NE San Diego County, have been set either by carelessness or on purpose.
I have an old friend since childhood who spent his career with the LAFD and retired 36 years later. He has commented that, with continuous drought, there is an endless supply of dry fuel when the Santa Ana winds — driven by winter storms in Utah and Colorado — arrive in the fall and winter. Last winter, SoCal experienced a high rainfall total for the season and, unfortunately, that means a lot of new fuel for the "fire season" of fall.
The fact is, Southern California sits on a coastal desert. Water comes from the Colorado River, the Sierras, and the Sacramento River Delta. Creating a lush agricultural region more than 100 years ago seemed like a miracle. Give it water and nearly anything would grow. The Inland Empire began as a citrus powerhouse thanks to several Italian families who grew the oranges and grapefruit that covered that region. Even the writer, H.L. Mencken noted, when he arrived by train, "The stench of orange blossoms is everywhere. ;-)
Today, over-development continues to assault the aquifers and reservoirs with devastating consequences. The current fire situation in SoCal has been a grim reminder of the value of water imported from afar.
51
Say what you will about Trump, but unlike the many presidents who preceded him, it’s in these dire moments, through his actions, that we see his true leadership and someone who knows how to respond when the fire strikes. How to lead, encourage first responders and do what is best for the majority, regardless if they are Democrats or Republicans. Oh, wait..
26
Ha,Haa.. he is not going to do anything because Cali did not vote for him!
Right now in small cities and towns in CA sensible precautions are generally not happening. Designate new very high Fire Hazard Severity Zones where stricter regulations and higher insurance rates would apply? NOT happening. Fire safety requirements are actually generally just weak recommendations. Metal or tile roofs required? No. Fire resistant home designs required? No. Defensible clear zones and exterior wildfire exposure protection - merely a suggestion and generally ignored.
I have been looking at Sierra foothills towns with a view to a retirement home and over and over the towns give lip service only to fire prevention and safety. The people living there do not want to be told what to do and they are not spending money, many don't have it, on new fire resistant roofs and rebuilds. Most houses have flammable roofs and trees right up to the homes and there are surrounding dense forests with many dead trees and thick brush. Many neighborhoods with hundreds or thousands of people, neighborhoods built with only one main road passing through and if both ends are on fire no way out. Not yet a soluble problem, the political will to require and enforce the known solutions has not yet developed
13
I have observed that the US citizenry and government (State, Local and Federal) rarely do a good job of contingency planning. Often the costs are high, and certain political factions don't want government mandates or incentive funding to promote smart development or re-development. Look at the Dutch example. It would be easy to say that no one should have established communities in the lowlands, but 1000 years ago they did. The Dutch understand that they need to manage their environment and one way is through infrastructure projects that take the 1 in 1000 year flood into account.
The US agency that does one of the best jobs of planning is the US Military (re: global warming for example) as they need to build contingency plans on the impact of multiple types of disruptions.
2
This is what happens if liberalism runs wild!
If climate change were real this would have been much worse.
1
News flash to Technic Ally: It is specifically because of climate change that the central and south coasts of California have seen unprecedented change in rain patterns. It didn't used to be like this, but of course, you wouldn't know that.
4
My thoughts are with the people. A mass evacuation of the greater Los Angeles area would be slow at best. I shudder to think of what air quality is like in the San Fernando valley!
From Ventura south, housing is almost contiguous all the way to San Diego. If the fire trends to the south it will be in cities and suburbs. If it goes south and easterly, Thousand Oaks, Agoura, Canoga Park, Tarzana, Reseda, Burbank, Hollywood, West Covina, Pasadena, Azusa and many other cities could be at risk. If it went south and west, then Oxnard, Malibu, Pacific Palisades, Santa Monica, Venice, El Porto, El Segundo, Manhattan-; Redondo-; Hermosa; Long, and Seal beach could be at risk.
Although that is a scant list of the 88 towns/cities in Los Angeles county, it still represents a significant portion of L.A.'s more than 10 million inhabitants.
Pray for rain.
45
Sorrow. That's the strongest emotion for this citizen viewing this terrible situation. Countless others no doubt are feeling tremendous sorrow about this. Let's turn or sorrow to anger that we are all inadequately addressing the issue. Climate change is here. It is real. It is destructive. We are doing little about it and our leaders in Washington want to continue business as usual. Wake up fellow citizens. We can do something about climate change but it requires that together we admit that there is a problem and stop putting people in charge who live in denial, and ignore science. We're better than this.
5
Not much hope that anyone in the US is going to do anything about climate change with the Kochs, Mercers, et al., in complete control of our government (from the courts to the congress to the White House). Big Energy must make its money. The rest of us are just an annoyance for them. Their servants in Washington do their bidding unquestioningly and the plutocrats fund endless propaganda to keep them in power (while the Democrats eat their own - see Al Franken - to feed their individual fantasies of becoming the next Barak Obama). Bottom line: We're doomed.
3
Sure, most of us are better than this. Most of our elected leaders, not so much.
1
The second most populous city in the nation is in peril. Houston, the fourth largest city, is still in bad shape. Puerto Rico, which the United States is responsible for, is still a mess. The disasters are piling up, while Trump taunts and insults and does nothing.
He's just being an American, I guess. Why are we so terrible at governing ourselves? Could it have anything to do with ours being a culture built by people who came to this continent because they didn't like being told what to do? Friends, we gotta grow up. I don't know how, but it really does have to happen. "You're not the boss of me!" is not working as policy.
Trump, of course, is the personification of this. Along with so many of our other alleged "leaders" who rally behind selfishness and victim-blaming.
49
No, Bunk, that's not the problem. The problem is unlimited money in politics (thanks Supreme Court), which enables a few absurdly rich people (Kochs, Mercers) to control our government for their own selfish purposes. We Americans could do the right thing if the plutocrats were not manipulating us with phony propaganda making half the country think the other half is going to kill their babies and take away their guns. We are being thought controlled, and the internet is the tool. We're screwed.
9
24 horses died, locked in a boarding stable in Bel Air. Where were the human caretakers?
7
They were told to leave, insistently, by the fire department.
1
My guess is that they couldn’t afford to live in Bel Aire and that the length of their commute made it impossible to get there through the fires and that they had their own families to protect. Everything falls apart during a disaster when you have to outsource responsibilities too numerous to look after by yourself. It sounds like the owners did not have an emergency plan for their horses.
There were probably no overhead sprinkles either.
3
Source? I believe you mean the Creek Fire. No horses have died in Bel Air.
3
It's really very surreal here today in LA . . . The news on one hand is as if the world is coming to an end yet when I step outside here in East LA where I work, I look north and the San Gabriel mountains are the clearest I've seen them in a very long time as seems the air. Then the moment I step back into my classroom here a school the principal comes on the PA to say that no children are allowed outside to play at all today, as are all the schools north of downtown also all closed today. I really don't see what the difference between abundance of caution and hysteria is. Both obviously make people feel somwhat powerful in a powerless situation, but that's about all.
3
Southern California will be getting even hotter and drier in the coming decades. This region is way over-populated for a semi-desert region with limited local water supply, but that probably won't stop the push to build even more housing here.
8
It is just not only Southern California that is overpopulated, it is the entire planet.
3
Maybe, just for today, we can find it in our hearts to be grateful that our homes are not being threatened or consumed by fire, send all good wishes to those impacted, and appreciate the firefighters who are working so hard to manage this terrible situation.
253
Good wishes do exactly zero to help. Vote for sane representatives who understand science and reality or don't waste your breath.
6
This is the old "thoughts and prayers" approach which basically pretends to care about the affected people and then goes right back to doing nothing. Thoughts and prayers achieve nothing as has been repeatedly shown in multiple contexts from gun violence to drug addictions to environmental disasters ... SteveZodiac, in his comment, offers the approach that *will* actually address this particular problem: acknowledge that climate change is real; re-join the Paris Accord; begin a program to lead the world in development of alternative energy sources ... Fat chance of that with the people we have in Congress and the White House.
5
Wow, there are some petty and vindictive people here. Rich or poor when you home is wiped out you are devastated. It is ironic that many of those who hate Trump, talk just like him. How about some empathy and compassion?
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California Burning on such a winter day...
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How about some intelligence when it comes time to settle somewhere? These people in Bel Air, among whom I count some family members, are plenty smart when it comes to ways of screwing other people out of large sums of money. But not smart when it comes to living in the path of danger. Nothing vindictive or petty about signifying this, no?
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I hate Trump and I don't "talk just like him." Why? Empathy and compassion which are only two human qualities he lacks.
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Good argument for planting and maintaining native, drought resistant vegetation around one's property.
Could these fires have been intentionally set? What an unfathomable horror.
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Among steps being considered to reduce the risk of fires, how about a simple step of banning future planting of eucalypts? These are non-native, water-hungry, extremely flammable trees that are being planted everywhere. Once a fire starts, it can follow rivers of eucalypts between properties. Native chapparal, grasses, and oaks also provide fuel for fires, but they are not nearly as flammable as eucalypts.
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Do we still plant eucalyptus? I don't think we do.
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People still do plant eucalyptus.
Insurance claims for the wine country fires exceed $9 billion. It looks like a similar amount will be claimed in southern California. And that doesn't include the terror, inconvenience, lost business and tax revenues and shelter and medical costs.
What would it cost to bury power lines? This is the problem with ancient infrastructure that government is not dealing with. We have to cut corporate taxes first.
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If you are prepared to pay triple for your electricity you may persuade the power company to bury the lines. Just imagine the problems involved: digging up streets, eminent domain issues to name two. It would be a nightmare.
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Fire suppression has played a role, too, resulting in a lot of dry fuel in woodland areas. Preventative burns are part of wild land management in Oregon, and has made a significant difference. Better some smaller, controlled burns than a massive uncontrollable fire.
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We learned this in my midwestern high school conservation class way back in 1995. Our teacher taught us about controlled burns, and we used them in the local prairie areas, mostly to clear invaders and restore native species.
Amazing it's not implemented more broadly and at scale. You'd think that when years worth of dry grass/brush accumulates, municipalities would actively clear and burn these areas in a controlled away—especially near threat zones where a fire could accidentally start (power lines, etc).
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Just a note, controlled burns have gotten away from crews in the past. In today's litigious environment, I doubt any agency is willing to take the risk. Especially in California where you can be successfully sued over a cup of hot coffee.
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Look up the documentary Hot Coffee. That story was not as it was reported in the media. An elderly woman suffered severe burns and needed reconstructive surgery and help with paying hospital bills because a company was storing and serving coffee at an unsafe temperature to save money. There may be frivolous lawsuits, but sometimes corporate plaintiffs succeed in imposing their spin on ones that are not.
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Where is President Trump during all this, or does he only consider himself President of the states that voted for him? If I was a Twitterer the hashtags #Petty and #Vindictive might come to mind.
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Oh, haven't you heard? These fires were a politically motived move to punish the state for not voting for He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named.
C'mon. I lived in Ojai for 10 years. Anyone from San Luis should know that wildfires and earthquakes are a way of life. I don't think this even made the NYT front page until two days into the Thomas Fire.
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MAF: your comment and two just a bit below, from gene and Rich, express views that are tearing America apart. Two of you using this horrible disaster to take a shot at Trump, and Rich smugly dismissing the plight of those he thinks more fortunate than he. Don't you see what you are doing to the fabric of our society?
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Maybe gluing his dentures back in? #denturedon?
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Very wealthy property owners who will suddenly all learn how to cry poormouth when they go to Uncle Sugar to rebuild their mansions...did anyone compel these people to live in a desert?
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Actually, the fires aren't in the desert, but in a relatively densely wooded area on the west side--it's the dry trees that are burning, not the desert.
Also, I expect that most of the wealthy property owners probably carry home insurance.
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The average rainfall in Southern California is 15-20" per year. This is not a desert, and, by your logic, the entire western half of the United States would need to be depopulated. Reconstruction of private dwellings in the United States is customarily handled by privately purchased fire insurance, not "Uncle Sugar." Most people in the fire areas are not "very wealthy" by California standards, they are middle class folks. When you feel it necessary to cram so many mean-spirited and ignorant statements into one paragraph, it's time to shut up, really.
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You mean like you guys do when a tornado comes roaring through your area? There's no where in this country that's immune from some type of a natural disaster. I'm always a bit disgusted by the commenters who come in and spew their venom on people who are sincerely suffering.
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These unprecedented fires that are burning down California are the perfect opportunity for Trump to say he made a huge mistake by pulling out of the Paris Climate agreement and get back into it. The problem is that Trump never admits he makes any mistakes.
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But of course! The CA fires are Trump's fault, and he should apologize immediately, and change his ways to avoid future fires! How could I have missed it? Thanks for pointing that out!
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It's the sanctity of private property and the 'right' to build and live where one pleases that contributes to these fire disasters in Los Angeles. Property developers are a highly influential lobbying force, and folks insist in living in dry brush canyons for the love of quiet and to be surrounded by nature. We have no business building in these ecologically challenged regions, and until cities such as Los Angeles develop the political courage to challenge the real estate lobby, more disasters like the current one, will continue in the future.
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The point is that Trump neither seems to care about what is happening in his America (meanwhile stirring the Mideast hornets nest), nor has he acknowledged that this series of catastrophic weather events is due to climate change. Acknowledge climate change, and you engage resources that can predict and assist in lessening the effects. Instead, Trump is pushing coal and oil, both of which will be depleted in 15 years! Meanwhile, other countries are leading a massive transition to alternative, clean energy.
Over 300 firefighters at the 475 acre Bel Air fire? The result of being rich in America. Bel Air is the home of some of the wealthiest Hollywood stars and business leaders so, of course, they get an oversized share of resources.
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You clearly have no idea what resources are required for wildland firefighting and speak from a position of ignorance. Wealthy area or not, these types of fire require tremendous resources.
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Firefighters go where the need is. If they're needed in a poor neigborhood they go. If they're needed in a wealthy neighborhood they go. I don't know, and you don't know, why LA is distributing their resounces as they are. Stop it.
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Or perhaps firefighters are concentrated there because people (and animals) in greater downtown Los Angeles will be better protected if the fires in Bel-Air are controlled as quickly as possible.
Have you seen the map?
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Absolutely terrible. I wonder if a masterplan could be created for avoiding such fires in the future.
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The Master Plan is for everyone in the world to not have more than one child; stop building in areas that have no water; build concrete or stone homes; don't eat a lot of meat, which requires grazing and lots of water to sustain the cattle and sheep; and stop encroaching into wilderness areas.
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10,000 retardant dropping large drones - on call. Also good to have if ever a
nuclear attack occurs. Daniel Ellsberg said fire would be a great aftermath.
Ellsberg's interview on Democracy now, yesterday, was excellent.
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Reducing CO2 in the atmosphere would cool the planet. It's not rocket science.
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