It would be nice if Washington silenced the traitors who gave away US secrets. Oh, I forgot, Obama forgave them.
3
Dismaying how the Chinese government is shutting down open and honest speech in the US, but in 2015, I had a good experience with the Beijing police, an arm of the Chinese government.
I had taken a cab from a hotel in Beijing to the Temple of Heaven, a trip that should have lasted about 10 minutes. The trip instead took 90 minutes because of a much longer route chosen by the driver. Now, I do not know if this was deliberate, or the driver got lost.
When we arrived at the Temple of Heaven, I told the driver that I am not paying the fare, and he should call the police. He did, and within about five minutes, three officers showed up. I explained what had happened, and the officers took my side. One asked how much I was willing to pay, and I made a reasonable offer. The driver said he would not accept, but he later relented, after the officers must have told him he better accept the offer, or he will get nothing.
Meanwhile, a crowd had gathered, and its member were chatting among themselves. I guess the crowd was conducting its own trial.
At the conclusion, I thanked the officers and shook their hands. The taxi driver refused the handshake. As I was leaving, the crowd got a bit louder, but I smiled and waved to it. I do not know if the crowd was with me or against me, since I do not understand Mandarin.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/stevebrown1/albums/72157656135302199
1
When, oh when, will the United States admit that Richard Nixon made a mistake in opening relations with China?
5
There goes the neighborhood
One of the offenders here is the Confucius Institute. This so-called non-profit public educational organization is in fact affiliated with the Chinese Government Ministry of Education. Under the guise of promoting language and culture, they routinely sanitize our image of China, suppress free speech here vis-à-vis China, and control our American school curriculums. They are exploiting underfunded school districts and public universities who are just happy to receive the funding. Those schools are largely altogether ignorant of the organization. This is one unexpected and very unhappy outcome of inadequate education funding.
11
This sounds much the same as it was for students from Iran in the days of the Shah.
1
Silencing any dissent, even those coming from friends.
This is what Communist-in-power do, above anything else.
When not in power, well-read Reds make pretty good conversationalists. Some of my most cultured and entertaining friends are Communists.
They should be cultivated and even listened to, in moderation...
But, for the sake of all that you hold sacred, do not give them power.
Certainly not any power beyond re-arranging public library shelves.
If Communists gain power, most of you will regret it.
Maybe not the first week, but soon.
6
As we all know, China is now the second-largest economy in the world. The argument trotted out by its leaders is that they have been able to achieve this economic miracle because of the absence of democracy and individual freedoms in the political arena, which Wang Dan is bemoaning.
I have been able to witness that miracle firsthand during my two visits to China. During my 2002 visit, I witnessed capitalism sprout in its crude forms. The title for my first book on travels around the world, “Capitalism Comes to Mao’s Mausoleum,” was inspired by that experience.
In striking contrast to that, during my two-week-long second visit, which ended last month, I witnessed capitalist enterprises all over, in forms that are as sophisticated as in any advanced industrial country in the world. Prosperity was staring at me wherever I went, from Beijing to Shanghai.
The mood of ordinary people can be summed up in the words of our Chinese guide: “We hate to go back to the bad old days of poverty.” As long as they are happy, the leaders of the country have no incentive to introduce any democratic reforms. They will continue to practice communist authoritarianism while engaging in all kinds of capitalist activities. They couldn't care less that Mao and Marx may be turning in their graves.
This is not to belittle the work conscientious people like Mr. Wang is doing. To their credit, they are keeping a critical voice alive against the duplicitous game their leaders are playing.
7
Getting harder to tell whether this is fake news, planted by Moscow...
If it is real - the Chinese should wake up and realize it's the role of their most progressive universities to hinder free speech...
The government should stay out of it...
2
Trump should start denying visas or deporting Chinese citizens already here who try to silence other Chinese in the US. Freedom of speech and freedom of thought are enshrined in our Constitution. China is a bully and needs to be called out.
8
I understand the author's fury at Chinese government, but this article is ridiculously exaggerated. I attended CSSA in USC, and I can freely discuss Chinese politics with my classmates, yet I don't see anyone of us get intimidation from China. Also, the student who made "fresh air of free speech" is not blacklisted, nor is her parents punished. Finally, I thought people who read NYT are open-minded enough not to make ridiculous claim of deporting Chinese students. I wonder if they are Russian bots that try to polarize this country.
8
I challenge Wang Dan to speak in support of the ISIS to test the freedom of speech in America. I bet he doesn't dare. He is just a moron. Even in this so-called free open America. the thousands of Chinese students have not been converted to those stupid students that staged the Tiananmen event bercause, once in America, they find out what all those frerdeom, democracy, huiman right slogans really mean and not what they are told to be.
3
" ... those stupid students... " thmal says about the Tiananmen massacre.
Perhaps they were "stupid."
But did your government have to butcher them?
And do you have to approve so loudly Chinese killing Chinese?
6
Apparently the Chinese communist believe their own people are too stupid to understands and evaluate different politics.
5
"Apparently" is a nonsense assertion.
1
I remember Iranian and Haitian students in the 1970s being fearful of open speech in the USA lest the Savak and the Tontons Macoutes take actions against the families they left behind. At least in this case the USA is not supporting the foreign gestapo, like we did back then when our government underwrote the Shah and the Duvaliers.
3
Let us remember the thugs in NATO ally Turkish President Erdogon's security detail who beat people on streets of Washington who were demonstrating against Erdogon. That happened in 2017, not the Seventies. President Trump did nothing. But I'm glad for all the effort Wang Dan made to criticize Erdogon and to stand up for those beaten for expressing themselves here.
5
That's all fine and good, but I wish Washington did not hinder free speech in America, because that's precisely what it does -- the government effectively blocks books published by their authors by denying them cataloging which makes books visible in the marketplace of libraries and bookstores, and giving those services to third-party publishers only, so only "vetted" books (government's term) can get in. And suing does not help -- I tried and discovered that federal judges simply replace parties argument with bogus argument so they could decide the way they want to (i.e. for third-party publishers), the First amendment, and property rights be damned. (If you want the whole story, go to www.cajfr.org -- Coalition Against Judicial Fraud)
So systemic, institutional censorship is rampant in the US not because of China, but because of crony capitalism, and of government's fear of people speaking out of their won mouths.
Let's clean up our own house first, and then point fingers at China. We do censorship differently, but just as effectively.
1
One wonders if the New School for Democracy founded by Wang Dan takes a right wing tone or is an attempt at moderation as is the opposition to Communism of the journalists, Petkoff, of Venezuela with the publication "Tal Cual," and Joani Sanchez of Cuba, with her "Generacion Y."
What is censorship?
Choosing not to attend a political salon is not censorship. Advocating one's "nationalistic" political view is not censorship. Pressuring university administrators to cancel events is not censorship. All of these are examples of students advancing their own political view through free speech, albeit one you find disagreeable.
Real acts of censorship exist on American campuses. Preventing other students from attending an event through disruption is censorship (as seen in Middlebury to censor Charles Murray's speech). Violently rioting against a speaker is censorship (as seen in Berkeley to censor Milo Yiannopoulos). Physically preventing a professor to teach in class is censorship (as seen in Evergreen State College to censor Bret Weinstein).
Have Chinese students in American universities committed these acts? The author provided no evidence that they have. As best, this essay showed a non-representative sample of Chinese students holds views that can be interpreted as nationalistic.
4
It's ironic that the former student leader has sank to be a spokesman for CIA. I guess he watched history going by him and refuse to accept he's a nobody now. If he bothered to reflect while in jail he would had understand human rights are most of all, the right to be not hungry, have a place to line, health care and education, which is by no means assured in U.S..
1
No, you confuse freedom and protection. Not having to worry about food or health care may be noble and compassionate, but will eventually conflict with individual liberty and choice. China for decades has promoted state-designed programs with claims of benefits for the greater good, and crushed individuals and groups who dared defy the official plan.
3
@Bob Krantz
I hear these Libertarian arguments of "liberty and free choice" more and more over the past 30 years.
Go look at a countries like Denmark, Germany, Switzerland, etc. The governments provide healthcare and education.
They don't have the laid off factory workers we have. They don't have the opioid crisis we have. They don't have the poverty we have. They don't have the incarceration rates we have. There are states in the US with African-American infant mortality rates worse than Botswana.
And we are the richest industrialized country GDP / capita on the planet. That is not what I want for the United States.
And Forbes Best Countries for Business consistently ranks those countries higher than the US, often in the top ten. The US is consistently below 20.
4
US universities are also complicit insofar as they allow organizations such as the Confucius Institute to operate language and cultural programs funded by the Chinese government on their campuses. The Confucius Institute is essentially a propaganda tool operating under the veneer of a cultural organization and its goal is to foster an image of China sanitized of its anti democratic reality. Too many American universities agree to allow this organization to operate on their campuses because of the financial benefit they derive. In exchange, they are only too willing to a turn a blind eye to the real agenda being pursued.
8
Thank you for the article/information. It's a real concern. Live in a University community. Know Chinese students. Now I know.
1
"I’m disappointed that President Trump chose to focus mainly on trade, rather than human rights, during his recent trip to China."
Nothing new here. Ignoring human rights is the norm.
On her first visit as US SOS Hillary Clinton told China that the US considers human rights concerns secondary to economic survival.
Now, under the banner of "America First" the Trump administration has pledged not to interfere in other countries domestic policies.
Let’s stop pretending that we care now, nor have we ever cared, about Chinese human rights or any other aspect of their lives as long as they satiate our unbridled appetites with millions of severely exploited Chinese workers who float US consumption and our national debt.
To pretend otherwise is to deny centuries of exploitative history in which the West plundered China for its resources and cheap labor while obliterating any sign of popular resistance to our imperial sway.
From the British Opium Wars to America considering using nuclear weapons to bomb China back to the Stone Age because of its differences with it over Korea and Vietnam, the West's approach to China has always been one of brute intimidation.
The US should start "to shore up its policies at home to stop WEALTHY ELITES from undermining core democratic values — both on campus and beyond."
There are plenty of "threats to free speech" at home (BDS anyone?) and the surveillance state in the US is worse than any apparatchik in China dares dreaming about.
America First!
4
I am tired of New York Times articles that demonize China. Lately, I have read one or two each day while I look for any sentence about the advances of the Chinese Education system, the impressive development of trains and airports and urban areas all over China, or the increase in the quality of life for the majority of the Chinese citizens. I agree with Wang Dan that his saloons should be well attended and would be beneficial for all university students in the US. But I believe that less biased New York Times reports on China would have a more significant impact on all of its readers. We might have free speech in America, but unfortunately, we have one-sided views in our best newspapers.
3
The suppression of free-speech done by corporate America on behalf of their Chinese suppliers and customers is worse. There is an orchestrated campaign by corporate lobbyists to encourage the newsmedia and the government to not draw attention to the nature of the Chinese government and the relationship between American businesses and the Chinese government.
I'm all for calling out Beijing's treachery, but this is a case of the pot calling the kettle black.
We should do all we can to resist Chinese government interference with our universities through donations of funds and harassment techniques. One thing that might help would be to have photographers at events to take pictures of the government photographers themselves.
4
The responses from teaching colleagues at lunch was this column, which I read, is ridiculous, wholly unfair to our inquisitive, free-thinking, hard-working students who are proud to be from China, proud of what the Chinese have built.
I am proud of America and not in the least surprised that our Chinese students are proud of China. Our students are happy in China and happy studying here, our students express themselves freely, which fully please me.
5
We hosted a Chinese high school student this past week and it was eye-opening for me. I was explaining Tiananmen Square to my nephew (the other student's classmate) and he said "We don't learn about this in China. It's the past. We shouldn't talk about it." The same went for any political discussion, climate change, and any other discussion apart from the weather and music.
19
It is true that Chinese youngsters are avid for knowledge about the history of China. I have had similar encounters with Chinese youth. But I wonder whether your nephew knows what was going on in the US in 1990. Does he know who was the president? What were his policies? Does he know why a Bank bailout was necessary? What does he know about the Berlin wall?
My impression is that millennials, in general, do not know their own history. And for the most part, they are not even interested.
1
Beijing Hinders Free Speech in America
[ How ridiculous. I teach and I can assure any reader that Beijing in no way hinders free speech in America. My students are free as can be and wonderful in that freedom. Also, I have been in China at academic conferences and visited universities and found freedom there.
This essay in no way reflects what I find continually. ]
7
How much does the Chinese government pay you to lie like this?
2
I do not known where you teach, but for you to make this all encompassing statement that the author's view is "ridiculous" and that "Beijing in no way hinders free speech in America" is unsupportable, or, at the least, you do not support your comment. Indeed this not the first article to make this observation regarding Chinese government interference with Chinese studying abroad.As at least one commenter notes,this is a problem in Australia right now. This is not an accusation because I do not know you, but from your two defensive comments, I would ask, are you Chinese, or do you receive stipends or financial support, by the way of travel or study help in China?
3
I've been to China 3 times (last 2015) and find many things wonderful about China. But, really, Nancy - "You found freedom there".
The Chinese government has funded Confucius Institutes on many campuses in the USA and elsewhere, to advance their goals through University connections. To be fair, the USA and European countries have funded their own such Institutes abroad. In any case, we need to be careful that Universities don't sell out their principles for the dollars associated with foreign tuition and with Institute funding. Complete transparency of these arrangements is essential.
18
These should be closed or limited until they allow western organization the same freedom.
Any wonder? Just go back to before Berlin Wall fall and you will see that communism is unchanged and will never change. Does anyone have in mind a single communist country where freedom of speach and of thought were or are possible? Than you, USA for having countered USSR until 1989-11-09, when even Gorbachev realised that Communism was unreal. Now China is enacting Deng Xiaoping saying: "It does not matter whether it is a white cat or a black cat, until it catches mice is a good cat": In other words: it does not matter if some chinese get awfully rich eploiting other human beings, what really matters is that the Communist party is in control and that the Communist Party leaders have limitless power and wealth.
14
Why are we educating our ideological enemies?
All mainland Chinese students studying here should be forced to learn about the atrocities committed by the communist party of china in the hopes they will take those lessons back to the mainland with them
9
Both China and the US believe in capitalism, both currently have oligarchies running their countries and the people seem to accept them as such (so the only difference is how China is less tolerant of dissent and protest than the US, but there are plenty of examples of heavy-handedness by police and courts against protestors in the US too). So exactly how is China the US's ideological enemy when they both are more similar than different.
Do we force US students to learn of atrocities committed by the United States? Why don't we start by making US textbook expose the ugly side of US capitalism, exceptionalism, nationalism, and marketed patriotism in our high schools before we 'force' Chinese foreign students to learn about the ugly side of their country.
1
Perhaps you didn't read this piece carefully. The writer clearly states that Chinese students in the US & Australia are spied upon by other students in classes, seminars, etc. By suggesting that students "should be forced to learn about..." do you have suggestions for how they will be protected from other kinds of force upon returning to their homeland?
our taxes probably contribute to teaching our ideological enemies who then go back to china and do everything in their power to advance it over ours.
China is a communist controlled nation, suppression and communism go hand in hand. Fascism is another word for it, and it’s taking hold here with conservative corporations taking over media outlets as quickly as possible, plus an administration antagonist to any form of criticism from main stream media. The deplorable’s are winning with the entire nature of our country changing rapidly in only the first year of this presidency. With his concession of Asia to China on the Far East trip, and his glad-handing of the suppressive leadership in Russia, our Dear Leader has opened the door to pro-communist strong men to do whatever they want on our soil without fear of retribution. Welcome to the new world order.
8
"Beijing Hinders Free Speech in America"
Yes, Mr. Wang.
And yet millions of Americans buy cheap Chinese junk in big box stores like Walmart, Lowes and Home Depot, and millions of Americans buy expensive Chinese junk in small box stores like Apple.
All made in communist Chinese sweatshop factories.
And the NY Times refers to Chinese dictator and chairman of the Central Committee of the Chinese Communist Party as China's "president."
And sadly, the unelected "President" Xi is far more presidential than is the elected president of the United States Donald Trump.
10
It is a historical fact that the western powers, including America, DID humiliate China in the past. Britain, for example, fought the Opium Wars with China in the 1839-1842 and 1856-1860, essentially to preserve the right of its merchants to sell opium to the Chinese.
4
Yes, and the Vikings humiliated the Britons, but you don't see Great Britain using that piece of history to hammer the Norweigians.
2
@Edward D Weinberger
Read actual history, not some leftist caricature of it. The US strove to maintain an Open Door policy by which all powers would carry on trade on equal terms. The most offensive Western practice was maintaining coastal enclaves in which European laws held (not Chinese law) and the European power owning the enclave had preferential commercial rights. The US abstained from this and also tried to support a stable Chinese government.
It seems to me that one of the author's main points is to shame Chinese officials for its attempts to shame Chinese students. Does anyone else notice the oddity of this?
If Chinese agents are acting in violation of US law, within the jurisdiction of the US, then there is a point to be raised. Otherwise, it is 'full of sound and fury, signifying nothing'.
3
I don't think that the main point is to shame Chinese officials, but to raise awareness that Chinese nationals are not able to speak freely about the Chinese government. Given the tremendous power China has the world, this should matter to people. I for one find it very alarming.
4
Can you not imagine any actions that fall short of legal violations, but that nonetheless chill freedom of expression? Like George Bush's press spokesman warning people to be careful what they say, perhaps? Or similar utterances by Trump? For a social species, shaming is a wholly predictable and ancient response to those who violate the norms of the tribe.
1
"Does anyone else notice the oddity of this?"
What I think is odd is your suggestion that pointing out that the Chinese government is persecuting its citizens is somehow the same as the Chinese government's persecution of its citizens.
The author argues that people are being blacklisted, threatened, and imprisoned (not just "shamed"), and that western schools and publishers even engage in self-censorship so as not to anger China, and all you've got is "if it's not breaking any US laws, suck it up"?
2
Propaganda and intimidation does not need to originate from a communist foreign government. Turning Point USA is a domestic terrorist group tracking and attempting to intimidate college professors from right here in America.
But try to restrict their activities, and you're inhibiting free speech. Why is it those who try to muzzle free speech always try to protect their nefarious activities by hiding behind free speech?
1
If Chinese students in our country are reporting back to Beijing the activities of other Chinese students, expel them from our country for failing to register as foreign agents.
46
Just another good reason to sanction China, disallow Chines students in the US, or at least prosecute the Chinese students for violating the first amendment. Most of all, I like to see an end to the import of all the Chinese junk, that keeps important products unavailable.
8
Saw the same with Iranian students in America after the revolution. Malaysian students around that time said they had to go home for the summer for brainwashing. The difference here, I suppose, is the number of Chinese students and the influence of China.
5
It's a police state, still.
13
Very interesting and very chilling. But, while the "fear and intimidation" that the Chinese government subjects those who disagree with it to are extreme (if certainly not unprecedented) it is concerning that the stated principle -- opposing the government of the time is unpatriotic and being a dissident is tantamount to treason -- is sadly reflected in the US as well, with many people equating, for example, kneeling for the national anthem in protest, as unpatriotic.
Those who are for free speech only when it agrees with their own ideas are the enemies of freedom
16
@Joshua Freeman Horrible analogy. The US government does not persecute the families of those who kneel and nor do state governments. Politicians express outrage but there have been no legal measures taken against these athletes. The outrage is expressed by private citizens which, by the way, they have a right to do also.
If you can't attract people to your platform with clear, rational and persuasive arguments, then threats and intimidation are your only other option.
But, more broadly, humanity seems to be going through another period where democratic ideals are being tested on a worldwide basis - xenophobia, nativism, populism and low-minded ideas only help the other side.
It is more important now than ever before that the US stay a beacon of light - free thought, free speech, free press. China's increasing global reach is Exhibit A in why.
7
It has been almost 30 years since Wang Dan was protesting at the Tiananmen Square. Is China better than it was 30 years ago? How about the US? I wonder what happened to China if the student movement was successful and the Chinese government implemented some kind of the western democracy. That is what the former Soviet Union did. What has happened to Russia since then?
I admired what Wang Dan did in 1989. But I feel sorry about him and the other student leaders at the Tiananmen Square back then.
3
Years ago I joined some Chinese Falun Gong practitioners who were doing the exercises along the lake front and I noticed a Chinese graduate student using a telephoto lens to take our pictures. I was told this kind of snrvalience was common in the Chinese community where some students were also members of the CP who provided support. Interestingly I know of at least one person from that group who lost their passport and can no longer travel back to China.
7
How much much of this is new? I remember a classroom discussion at the University of Alabama where a Chinese student spoke openly about Tiananmen. Before Prof Chotiner could respond another Chinese student shot up, going to attention and spouting what sounded like doctrine at the first student who lowered his head and left the room. It was a shocking display for the American students. That was 1994?
Perhaps of more interest is the influence of Chinese money on academic freedom in the West.
23
As the CCP and the government acquire more "gold", they will make more "rules". This will increasingly blur the line between authoitarianism and totalitarianism, both domestically and for Chinese nationals abroad. It will creep its way into societies and nations who need or want to do business with China, including our own, who are becoming more complicit in anything that the CCP sees fit to perpetuate its rule. It already has.
7
It seems the Nixon-Poppy philosophy of trickle down democracy, is gonna take a while longer. But it can be argued, that changing China from without has brought about a much faster change to a capitalist style economy, benefiting many beyond US and China borders. Tempering the type of resentment quoted as a 'century of humiliation', could be an annoying drip. Parallels for China could be drawn with women, blacks, WASPs, etc, to highlight that Americans also have experienced some liberation during that century's journey.
A very interesting and frightening piece. Der Spiegel last week had an article about the power of Turkey in Germany, similar to what is said here.
China which is, as Ms Clinton famously said, America's banker cannot be pushed around too much. It has far more clout than Russia both in the US and in the world and is headed to become the #1 superpower very soon.
So the US should not waste time on Russia-gate (though of course it should follow the spies from whichever nation) and really think about the best policies to face the reality of a Chinese dominated world. The answer is not military but educational and social. Achieving some kind of détente with autocratic Russia might actually sever the link between the two giant autocratic powers.
Recently Tom Friedman praised the young leader in Saudi Arabia, a war criminal in view of what is happening in Yemen. The US should really get its house in order and face realities rather than ghosts. Military spending is too high and that explains, in part, why China is winning. With Trump it's of course a lot harder to be rational but the Dems are also focused on the wrong priorities. The West generally should fight for free speech and more equality so as not to kowtow in front of the rising hegemon but work with China when it is rational to do so (North Korea for instance).
9
A few months ago, there was an interview talk in my computer science department about technical means of recognizing online censorship, in particular by the the Chinese government. We have quite a number of Chinese graduate students, but conspicuously, none of them attended!
20
The greater threat to our core democratic values is not China but rather Donald Trump and the worldview he represents, in which the niceties of democracy and civil liberties such as free speech will not serve this nation well in its competition with authoritarian regimes such as Russia and China. We who have always assumed that our core values would prove irresistible to others, to the point of thinking them necessary for economic development, are now facing the unwelcome reality that authoritarianism is proving irresistible to far to many of us, including the current president.
30
Please continue to run your salons. Also broadcast the proceedings live on line. Make it interactive so questions can be submitted and answered. And make it clear that this is being done because Chinese students feel threatened. The "fresh air of free speech" can be wafted on the internet out of reach of the polluting reach of the Chinese Government.
46
The challenge in China is moving forward from a brutal capitalist economy to a more equal society with freedom and transparency. It may take many, many years for China to do so, for a country with thousands of years of feudalistic, centralized, totalitarian tradition. Hopefully China can realize its dream of becoming a world power again by contributing to the humanity in terms of liberating people so that they can live with dignity, enjoying many freedom that the western takes it for granted.
4
Kindle wrote: "Hopefully China can realize its dream of becoming a world power again..."
China never was and never has been a world power. Its navy barely sails out of sight of land.
1
What the Chinese government is accused of doing -- having loyal students spy on Chinese students who may be disloyal -- is certainly reprehensible and maybe counterproductive. But infiltrating student groups, collecting names and then intimidating or blacklisting those suspected of disloyalty is as American as reality TV.
Documents liberal Catholic activists stole from the Media, Pennsylvania FBI office in 1969 showed that in the greater Philadelphia area, a third of black college students were informants for the FBI. spying on their fellow black students. At Berkeley, the great Free Speech Movement activist Mario Savio was put on a list of people to be interned in a national "emergency," this after repeated FBI break-ins of the places he lived. Savio remained on that list most of his subsequent life.
As Seth Rosenfeld showed in his book, Subversives, FBI director J. Edgar Hoover worked tirelessly to advance the political career of Ronald Reagan, so that Reagan could be elected California governor and fire Clark Kerr for failing to crack down on Berkeley's Free Speech Movement.
And in the aftermath of the terrorist attack on the World Trade Center and the American invasion of Iraq, police infiltrated basically any dissident group opposing the war. Quaker meetings were infiltrated under suspicions of terrorism.
So for some of us Americans, outrage about Chinese government spying here will be tempered by outrage of actions by our own government.
60
Ah, I was waiting for the moral equivocator to speak up, and here it is. China is bad but look how bad the US is! So we have no right to criticize others. Bad America!
15
No, the outrage is not tempered; all these power hungry jerks, from Xi to Putin to Ttump, and all their minions, who devastate people's lives to satisfy their own sad egos and greed, are a blight on humanity and planet earth.
1
We certainly do have a right to criticize China and why not? What China does to Chinese in China is worse than anything it has done to Chinese in America.
China is in a category of countries like Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Indonesia, Israel or Russia. Countries that do not live up to the standards of free speech that America's founding fathers set and to which we wish our own government would subscribe. Shame on them.
Three cheers to people like Mr. Wang, who had the courage to speak out knowing what the Chinese government was likely to do to them.
But the First Amendment applies to what the U.S. government (and governments of the states) might do to stifle freedom of expression and/or association. The First Amendment does not apply to China's government and the First Amendment doesn't free someone from being ridiculed or criticized for what the person says, or does, or with whom that person might associate. You do not have a First Amendment Right to have people attend your salons.
The New York Times was perfectly within its rights to fire any reporter or other employee who took the Fifth Amendment when questioned during the McCarthy era, though it was reprehensible of the Times to do that.
As an American, my primary focus is on what our government is doing to Americans in America. That is where my efforts can have the most effect.
Given that our political leaders no longer show interest in protecting commonly shared values of freedom over those of commerce, what alternative avenue can we seek? Please advice what practical steps we as citizens concerned with not only the long-term welfare of the US but also that of the rest of the world can take. My sense is that if we do not act vigorously with carefully thought-out strategy, we will simply be trounced by authoritarians with a plan. Or, you know, we could just stick our head in the sand and hope that marketing Trump's hotels will do the trick for us.
12
Sounds a lot like the sort of pressure the Trump administration puts on Americans who disagree with its policies. Take a knee during the national anthem at a football game, and see what happens. I'm not suggesting that it's as bad here as it is depicted in China, but the urge to castigate and pressure seems to be a universal tactic to silence the opposition.
41
Wang is a brave man who speaks out for freedom, so naturally Trump will ignore his advice. Trump is a rich man who prefers autocrats like Xi and Putin and attacks people who disagree with him.
65
I happen to think the Chinese Communist system works pretty well. It has lifted hundreds of millions of people out of abject poverty. Its economy has been booming uninterrupted for a thirty year economic stretch at a rate that is unprecedented in history. Tens of millions of Chinese used to die in droughts, earthquakes, childbirth, or early in age. No longer. Chinese now have jobs, prosperity, health. No wonder that polls (Western based) find them much happier with their government than we are with our government.
The Times loves to focus on human rights but seems completely ignorant of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, which explicitly recognizes "the right to a standard of living adequate for the health and well-being of himself and of his family, including food, clothing, housing and medical care and necessary social services." And "the right to education." And "the right to rest and leisure." And "the right to work." And most importantly, "the right to life."
How can you bash China on a couple human rights while ignoring its achievements on many more and arguably more important other human rights? So what if there's a little restriction on speech if hundreds of millions of people now have life? Just ask India, where everyone has the right to speech, but who live in abject poverty compared to China (when they were at equal footing not long ago).
31
It is certainly not contradictory to applaud China for economic advancement and still criticize it for intimidating its citizens regarding free speech.
24
I think you're ignoring the essence of the article. The author never called into question whether or not the Chinese Communist system is effective or not (which is an entirely different discussion), but rather that the Chinese government is attempting to impact and influence American institutions of higher learning, and in effect hindering, if not outright attacking the 1st Amendment.
31
It's not the Chinese communist system that has lifted people out of poverty, rather it's a market based system which has done so. Capitalism has done it, not communism.
5
This is interesting and frightening. I feel like we are struggling so much with Trump and his government's many lies that facts and evidence are being obscured by lies, unowned biases, and money. Americans usually turn inward during times of threat, but neither China nor Russia should be ignored. On the other hand, countries or governments that can not take criticism, compromise, or change are neither mature, free, or ready to lead the world.
7
The whole idea of opening China was so the Chinese could become more like us on their thinkings. How is that working out?
13
I'm afraid that the "New World Order" that Bush referred to almost 30 years ago is arriving now. It's totalitarianism.
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