I’m sorry Pastor Curry, but you are wrong to think that a human’s life is more important, or should be somehow more respected or protected from gun violence simply because that human is in a church. The lives taken in Las Vegas, or in the Newtown elementary school are just as important and entitled to safety. Instead of trying to carve out safe zones reminiscent of “duck and cover”, let’s concentrate on how these shooters legally obtained firearms. Sure, someone dropped the ball about a registry in this latest case, but that’s what people do. They drop balls. We need to back up, and ask ourselves how this guy was out loose in the world after everything he had done. And how our society loves guns so much that these things are done with the help and blessings of our gun laws. (Did you know some other countries warn their citizens about visiting the good ol’ U.S. because of our gun worship?)
Our problems are deeper than thoughts and prayers can cure. Your congregants are not more important or entitled to protection. Maybe they COULD get motivated to deal with the larger problems by asking their representatives to enact gun prohibition laws with regard to the violence-prone mentally ill or convicted violent offenders.
7
Pastor Curry,
Thank you for your frank reflections on an excruciating event, and for details that bring us closer to your community in this anguished hour. One thing you said that puzzles me: "In our community there is a deep, solid, underlying faith in God." Just what do you mean by that? A faith that God will ...what? Or a faith that God IS... what? Not that God will protect the innocent, surely -- that's glaringly what just did not happen. Nor that God will guide us so that such events will not recur; you don't even discuss the issues of political leadership and preventing more gun violence going forward. It's not clear that you mean anything more than that you have faith that other people have faith. Isn't this a little too circular and vacuous to give anyone meaningful comfort?
5
Reading these comments, I am stunned at how harsh and self-righteous "some" of them are. Get a grip on yourselves, people. This community is in the very early, very painful stage of grieving an extraordinary loss. Yes, it is still extraordinary. A community where something like 7% of the population was killed in one hour? Is this how you conduct yourself with people who are grieving? Tell them, "Well, stupid, it's your own fault?"
How about we give THEM a pass. They get to say and do whatever, however silly or stupid it may seem to us. WE get to cut back on our little luxuries so we can fund gun-control groups. WE get to hammer our legislators, if they aren't already on board. WE get to do whatever is needed. But WE do not get to criticize people who are already writhing in pain.
7
If mindless pablum were bulletproof, Pastor Curry's congregation would be safe from gun violence. What would Jesus say about the NRA?
8
What good will prayer do for people who were murdered WHILE PRAYING? Prayer didn't help them then and it won't help them now. What will help them is to know that action is being taken to make sure another mass killing doesn't happen ANYWHERE---inside or outside of a church.
7
It seems to me that it's wrong for shootings to happen anywhere. And, isn't God or the Body of Christ, everywhere?
12
Guns for good guys and bad guys = 26 dead
No guns = 0 dead
8
Yeah. And Senators don't want guns in the Senate.
What about shoppers who don't want guns in shops?
10
Sorry reverend, but your "Things like this don't happen in small towns" lament ranks right up there with "our thoughts and prayers..." in the meaningless cliche' department.
With Sutherland Springs now joining Sandy Hook and the many other small grief-stricken communities it becomes clear there's no end in sight for such tragic occurrences.
This country was founded on gun violence and unfortunately too many still see that as a solution rather than a problem as they defiantly cherish their right to own, openly-brandish and deploy weapons of their choosing.
8
Mr. Curry, you might want to talk to your god about this. It does nothing, despite the claims of myths thousands of years old. Where was this god when the shooter was there? Why didn't it do a thing? And please don't give the "free will" nonsense, because this god of yours interfered repeatedly with people in the bible. We either get to ignore your bible or your claims.
5
I feel the tragedy of the First Baptist Church's congregation's losses of life - as I do for the people killed in church by Dylan Root. But, Pastor Curry's show of cognitive dissonance is at the core of today's Christian paradox.
Curry ends up with the line, "A church in Wilson County is a place where we connect with the God who loves us, watches over us, and, in the end, welcomes us home."
Seems that the God who loves them was curiously unconcerned, or, at best, distracted, during the murders of 26 people & wounding of over a dozen. After the tragedy had already happened, the survivors & their neighbors turn to their God in private prayer & prayer circles to pray for the souls of those their God allowed to be killed & for the comfort and healing of the victims' survivors. One woman also declared it God's miracle that her own friends decided to attend a different church that morning - which logically implies that God decided to save 2 people, but didn't seem to find the others worthy of His intercession.
If it was their God's will that the time had come for these other souls be called to Heaven, then the shooter could be called the instrument of His will.
When one child survives a plane crash, people call it a miracle & sing Hosannas, while ignoring the fact that the God they are praising didn't see fit to exercise the same miracle for all the other passengers.
Is this telling the families of victims that their own loved ones were not worthy of divine intervention?
8
But faith without good works (such as supporting common sense gun legislation and voting out those who don't) is dead.
20
If a church is actually more sacred, why didn't God stop the shooting?
5
Pastor Curry,
Did the student from Seguin mention the hometown boy who shot a campus police officer and family man last month?
Please stop with the disengenous "this doesn't happen here." It happens. What are you going to do about it?
Perhaps you could start by reading this from United Church of Christ:
"In the meantime, however, we ask that in honor of our many murdered dead, elected leaders who behave as though successive episode of mass slaughter are simply the price our nation pays for freedom stop the reflexive and corrosive repetition of the phrase “thoughts and prayers.”
One does not offer prayers in lieu of demonstrating political courage, but rather in preparation"
Or you could read this gun violence prevention guide written by various faith leaders: www.decembersabbath.org/wp-content/uploads/.../GVP-Faith-Leader-Guide-20...
Or go to God Before Guns .org
Peace be with you and your communtiies!
5
I am deeply aware writing something like you should know better is in that case horrible, really. But I can't help writing it: you should know better. Guns and churches have a deeply interwined story in the US, one in the West too. I mean violence and churches. No need getting back to Salem. Just consider the history of Texas, including the Spanish and Mexican era. Bibles and guns, always, everywhere. Add the current interpretation of the Second amendment in the context, add nuts, any nut raised worshipping an almighty armed God, and don't be surprised.
6
A church in Texas is also a place where you can carry your sacred gun. You know, so you can be "free". So you can be "self-reliant". So you can "protect yourself". Churches in Texas are filled with the spirit of God, with prayer and praise. They are also filled with stubborn, foolish people who deliberately will not hear God shouting at them to Stop Worshipping your Benighted Guns!!
5
Prayer is good if the intention is to cleanse one`s mind.
But God is busy has no time to listen to every single individual, he has to take care of poor and destitutes first .
We need gun control more than going to church, synagogue, temples, Mosques to pray.
5
Oh, but violence is ok in "nonsacred", "noncommunity" spaces?
Is there a nonsacred space?
How superficial is this view.
This is Christianity only in name, with no Christ in it.
4
I grew up in a small rural town of 500 people with 11 churches and no bars. I went to church 3 days a week and during our two-week revivals every night regardless of my age. I was soaked with God, hell, homophobic fears, and an actual anti-intellectual stance against everyone who did not believe as we. It was repressive, racist, and negative. I rejected all of those beliefs in order to try to become mentally healthy. I still have residual thoughts that are not worthy of the beauty of this life.
That was then. I am sure that a lot of doctrines practiced this community and its churches are much more enlightened than 45 years ago. Also, the fabric of decency may have more fibers in the tapestry than the racist white community that I experienced. However, there is still that separation of the Christian lifestyle is superior to others due to the love and community spirit that others may not have due to their secular beliefs or no belief. So, until us vs. them rhetoric ends, then, this opens up the ability of others to disdain people of a different ilk.
So, your community has and will respond with love, but, be aware that your belief of God means nothing to a mentally ill man with a gun and a grudge.
3
Pastor Curry,
First, please accept my condolences. I feel I have to take you to task on a couple points. "Things like this don't happen in small towns like ours." Here's my answer to that: Newtown, CT; Roseburg, OR; Aurora, CO; San Bernardino, CA; Littleton, CO; Blacksburg, VA; Kileen, TX; Edmond, OK; San Ysidro, CA. These things always happen in small towns like yours. I, too, go to church at least once a week. My church is right off the 'Magnificent Mile' in downtown Chicago, and is also an exceptional place, a compassionate place, a place that models the teachings of Jesus Christ. I bet there's at least one difference, however. Every Sunday, we read the names of people who've died of gun violence in our community that week. I bet you don't have such a list. And that's a blessing. In my church we make no attempt to reconcile the teachings of Jesus--the great pacifist--with gun rights. You can't. You cannot embrace an instrument designed to send 45 rounds per minute into human bodies, and call yourself a follower of Jesus Christ. Were it not for Texans and their gun worship, those 26 would still be alive today. You have an obligation to stand in your pulpit and tell the truth about Jesus: He never espoused killing people. Not ever.
11
There is one man who, more than anyone else, stands in the way of sensible gun regulation: Wayne Lapierre, leader of the National Rifle Association. He terrorizes members of Congress and scares the daylights out of the NRA membership, fraudulently convincing them that Democrats want to take away their firearms. He is nothing but a shill for the gun manufacturers. The better they do, the better he does. It is time for the Democrats call him out publicly and inform NRA members that their leader is playing them for suckers.
6
The pastor is right that people shouldn't have to worry about this kind of violence in a place of worship. But why stop there? People shouldn't have to worry about this kind of violence in any public place. Parks, Schools, bars or other gathering places.
Safety in our lives and persons is not being taken care of. More guns every where is not making us safer. On the contrary.
10
My heart goes out to all the victims of this horrible tragedy. However, I think it is disingenuous for Pastor Curry to place himself and his community in a bubble, cut off from the rest of the country. Contrary to his perception, the evidence proves that mass shooting can happen anywhere. Guns are available anywhere, and small communities are not immune to angry individuals, mental illness, or extreme ideology. Two issues are involved here. 1) People living inside a fog of illusions. Religion often creates such a distorted atmosphere where empirical evidence is disregarded in favor of a feel-good security blanket that insulates those individuals from taking responsibility for their actions. “We don’t know why God allowed the evil of these shootings, but he had a purpose and we must accept it.” 2) People living in isolated small towns vote, and those votes ripple across the country and affect every citizen. So, in reality, no one is isolated.
“The idea that such a thing would happen in a sacred space…” I guess it depends on your definition of “sacred space.” Society is a sacred space. When you vote for the likes of a Trump, an Abbott, a Cruz you are destroying that sacred space. When you vote for people who want to destroy the security of the family by taking away their health care and jobs, and by making military grade weapons easy to obtain, who want to make the rich richer and the poor poorer – YOU are destroying sacred spaces. You can’t hide behind innocence.
7
The Reverend Mr. Curry is horrified that a church should be violated because it bodes "the presence of God." My question is why is killing innocent people in a sacred space any different than murdering them in profane places? Why is it so easy for a deranged individual to obtain the firearms to kill people in the first place? Is not the massacre of children in a public school any less egregious?
I'm sorry, Reverend Curry. I appreciate the intent of your message but I find your logic rather specious.
10
I understand the feeling of violation of one's sacred space. However, do you really feel that such a heinous act is somehow worse there than somewhere else? Mass murder at a supermarket, a public street, a sporting event, wherever, is no less terrible than at a church. Those intent on killing people go to where the people are. We should be focusing on the root of the problem, the difference between the USA and other countries in this regard: our ridiculously high number of guns, and the ease at which virtually anybody can get one, especially those capable of military-like assault.
4
I'm sorry for the loss of life in this tragedy, but this op-ed is ridiculous.
"The idea that such a thing would happen in a sacred space, a place where families are supposed to be safe, has angered many people."
So it would have been OK somewhere else?
This was likely domestic violence spilling over into a church. Personally, I believe the home should be as much of a sanctuary as the church and people shouldn't be subject to gun violence ANYWHERE.
"Churches are places where the spirit of God is felt, where the presence of God is very real, where manners are expected and vulgarity is shunned."
Maybe, but it is also a place where they spew hateful anti-LGBTQ rhetoric, endorse terrible Republican candidates and express support for aggressive war.
So please, Mr.Curry, be pro-active and do something to change American gun-culture and pro-war culture.
Praying alone isn't good enough.
9
The checklist to be put to use after mass murders:
1. Leaders in government rush to offer condolences and that "God be with the victims." (Odd since this occurred in a church.)
2. News media descends to tell us all about the shooter.
3. Mumblings of better gun control and bans on automatic weapons go unheard, not even discussed anymore.
4. Gun rights activists (and in this case the Pres hisownself) tell us it is not the guns, it is mental health and that if we all had guns, things would improve.
5. Lower flags to half staff.
6. Media reports "breaking news" on the story for days as details of the shooter's health, issues or religious affiliation become known.
7. Life goes on, unchanged, except for the victims and those closely affiliated with them.
Sarcasm? Sure. But let's face it. There WILL be another, pretty soon.
4
Every now and then I see a comment worth repeating, so that newer readers to the comments are more likely to see it. This one was posted by Moxiemom in PA. I can only say to her, "Amen Sister !!"r
" "The idea that such a thing would happen in a sacred space, a place where families are supposed to be safe, has angered many people."
THAT'S what makes you angry??? It really shouldn't happen ANYWHERE. Were you angry when little tiny kids were shot up in their classrooms? Were you angry when Dylan Roof shot up the church in Charleston?
It shouldn't happen in a Kindergarten classroom. It shouldn't happen in a movie theater. It shouldn't happen at the mall. It shouldn't happen in a club. It doesn't matter where the people are. People are people and they shouldn't be shot anywhere."
7
Lovely outreach. A huge omission was the hearts and souls of Jewish folks. I am positive if Jews felt welcomed in this church community, they would be providing support in all its forms. Charity and giving is essential in Judaism.
2
Is it just me, or is there some sense here that when it happens in a rural church to good Christians, it's waaaaay worse than when it happens in a city club to bad gay people? Because I don't think I can get behind that one.
4
I agree with many of these comments, but the pastor's piece caused me to have an entirely different set of thoughts: I have worked in places that look like Wilson Co., filled with good people going about their lives mostly with good intentions. And it reminded me again of how large and difficult to govern our country is. If you read his piece again, you will notice that there is no mention of AME, Jewish, Muslim, Buddhist, Hindu congregations because there probably are none. Because people of those beliefs or affiliations don't live there. So schools wouldn't know not to schedule events on Friday nights because of the Sabbath. I only make this observation to point out the enormous gulf between places like Wilson Co. and places where diversity, in all senses of race, religion, economic circumstances, immigration status, are the norm. It helps explain some of the huge divide we are experiencing in this country now -- or I should say, how easily this divide is exploited with their own gains in mind. If you never knew a Muslim, never met an undocumented immigrant, never played alongside an African-American child -- it is much easier to think of them as other. Nobody's fault. It just makes it so much plainer why things are the way they seem to be right now.
5
Your column is so heartfelt. But until something is done about easy access to any type of weapon in this country, and open-carry foolishness, NOTHING WILL CHANGE. And, notice, how many lives did Gun Carriers save in that church? ZERO.
10
Pastor Curry, I feel for you and for the people suffering from the hurting and killing of loved ones in your region. But human life is sacred even if it is not Christian. People dancing joyfully in a gay dance club in Florida are also loving, good, feeling human beings. Living in the country has never meant being immune to human violence and pain. I grew up in a small town, far from any cities. My dad was the town doc, and his office adjoined our house. There was a great deal of violence happening in that small town, usually inside of families, usually fathers and husbands beating, hurting, and sometimes killing children and wives. That is the root of the First Baptist Church violence too. Preach against the exceptionalism of white rural Christians. Preach solidarity with suffering people everywhere. Don't say, "This never happens here." It does, often, and mostly in secret.
13
So I opened my local newspaper early Sunday morning to peruse the Black Friday ads, and there was the insert from the national sporting goods chain, advertising a great deal on the Ruger Precision Rifle Generation too, on sale for only $1299.98 ($200 off). So I said jokingly to my husband (an avid hunter), "Hey, how about this for your Christmas present? -- and it's all wrapped up in a nice red bow." He just looked at me disdainfully and said that no real hunter would use such a weapon because it would "ruin the meat." Why? Because this particular weapon is specifically designed to inflict maximum damage and destruction on its target. And BTW, because this weapon is being advertised in New York State, it can only fire 10 rounds (large capacity magazines are banned in this state), making it a much less efficient killing machine than in states such as Texas, where large capacity magazines are legal.
Here's a summary of the laws in all fifty states. http://lawcenter.giffords.org/gun-laws/state-law/50-state-summaries/larg...
5
Dear Pastor Curry, All life is sacred, anyplace humans gather is sacred ground. The abuse in a child's bedroom is desecration, spousal abuse in a kitchen is desecration, a murder in a tavern is desecration. Living, loving, and dying on earth, not just in church, is sacred.
10
"the God who loves us, watches over us, and, in the end, welcomes us home."
Apparently watches in the figurative but never literal sense.
And He's welcoming a lot more Americans "home" as a result of the kind of spectacularly lax gun control practiced here in the USA, and with likely the full support of your congregation.
9
I only read NYT picks and was struck that folks could not simply appreciate an article about how the network of churches came together and do come together regularly to provide healthy activities for the community. Instead folks display their regional, political or secular prejudices. I am a liberal who is all for gun safety and believe in nonviolence who does not have to use this platform to lecture the pastor. I appreciate what the Christian church is doing in this community that I am sure is dazed.
5
the reason is that many of us are seeing our country dissolve our sacred separation of Christian church and state. We want coexistence and respect for all of us. All of our recent tragedies are the same. Only the names change.
9
"Things like this don’t happen in small towns like ours. Those who moved to the country to protect their family from the perceived dangers of the city were especially shaken."
Are you joking? Newtown was a small town. Columbine was a small town. Many mass shootings in America have happened in small towns. Take off the blinders Pastor. As a matter of fact here's an article about mass shootings in Texas, and it's from 2015. I am sure this can be updated to include other mass shootings in Texas since then. https://www.texasobserver.org/mass-shooting-2015-texas/
Another good article from the New Yorker about the latest mass shooting in Texas. https://www.newyorker.com/news/daily-comment/a-mass-shooting-in-texas-an...
11
People who move to the country to protect their families from the perceived dangers of the city are from a fairly select group. Either they can work in agriculture, or they possess a skill that will enable them to find employment or start a business in a rural area.
A family with a member suffering from a chronic medical condition is unlikely to find specialized medical care. A special needs child is unlikely to receive appropriate educational accommodations. This is not because of ill will but because of lack of resources.
And while several but not all major Christian faiths are represented, persons committed to other faiths -- Buddhists, Jews, Mormons, Muslims, Orthodox Christians, and Sikhs, to name a few -- are unlikely to find a religious community of their own in a small town. Similarly, those with strong attachments to ethnic communities, LGBT families, performers, etc. may find no place to call home.
As we near retirement, my husband and I wish we could retire to the country, but we cannot for some of the reasons I mention here. Wherever we ultimately wash up, we know that gun violence is an ever present possibility in America today.
My sincerest condolences to the people of Sutherland Springs.
2
What a horrible way to learn that things like this do indeed happen here. But faith without works is dead; to work to make sure it does not happen again will be to do His work.
5
What do you mean, "things like this don't happen in small towns like ours"? Where have you been for the last 20 years? Anyways, are gun deaths just fine in a black urban neighborhood? As an atheist, where am I supposed to run to avoid guns?
Our national cognitive dissonance over gun violence is getting ridiculous. You want to solve the problem, just have a look at the rest of the world. The rest of the world has plenty of hobbies to entertain themselves without guns. They forfeit the apparent fun of guns so that people don't die all the time in mass murders.
If you must keep your gun hobby, then you must tolerate mass murder. But don't be ridiculous -- you can't be surprised at the continuing mass murder, or expect certain places to be sacred. Mass murder is going to keep happening unless guns are banned just like in the rest of the world.
14
Nor should things like this happen in anyone's home. Nor their place of work. Nor in the street. Not anywhere, not in any town, city, farm, wilderness... NOWHERE.
14
Nobody is really asking for 'gun control' in this country. We're simply asking for 'gun sense'....as in common sense. The right to bear arms....you betcha...go right ahead....no qualms, no issues, no denials. What is an issue, though, is not allowing well-intentioned, gun loving, law abiding individuals to own or possess an Automatic or Semi-Automatic Rifle, designed solely to kill as many people as quickly as possible. I should mention, that if all 22,000 people attending the Route 91 Harvest Festival in Las Vegas, had a gun, it would not have made any difference, given the mass-destructiveness advantage associated with such military style weapons. More common sense suggests we not allow anyone with a history of Mental Illness to own a gun....period. At this point, all issues of state and federal privacy, and sharing of mental health information should be 'Off The Table'. Enough is enough!!
So, to be clear:
- Nobody wants your hand gun(s) or rifle(s)....have as many as you like.
- Everybody wants our country to be AR-15 free. No Automatic or Semi-Automatic weapons allowed for purchase.
3
With all due respect, many people have had enough and do want gun control, plain and simple. Given enough stress, and there is plenty to be stressed about these days, anyone can snap at any time. Never mind people with mental health issues, any previously stable, law-abiding citizen with a gun can wreak havoc in a matter of seconds. The common denominator in every shooting, mass or otherwise, is a gun.
3
This piece angered me beyond belief. Mass murder should not happen anywhere. Parents should be able to send their children to school without worrying they will be shot down. A church does not make your life more precious then one who prays in the mountains, the side of a child's bed or even one who doesn't don't pray at all.
11
Another sensible person in the great town of Swampscott. Born there, got married, couldn’t afford to live there. But, nice to see the name, & the sense.
I appreciate your comments, Pastor Curry, and I am sorry for the loss of life in Wilson County, and actually everywhere senseless killing takes place. And, I want to expand the vision of churches and small towns as places for safety. I live in the United States so that I can be safe. I vote so that I can be safe. I speak up when I see injustice. I speak up when the place I live in is not safe. Because my father was a career Army officer, I have lived all over the world; I've seen other countries, so I can compare. The United States of America had it all, and now we are losing it all. We need to think hard about our next move to restore our country's safety.
8
Funny how mental illness rarely leads to mass shootings in Canada or Europe. Why do you think that is?
17
There is no good place for a mass murder. I am sorry for your loss and the loss to your community.
5
When it comes to gun violence is any space more sacred than another?
Does your Jesus not weep over our gun culture?
15
A church is simply a building, and there is nothing sacrosanct about it except in the minds of the congregants.
If you want to be safe in a church, the DMV, the hospital, a federal building then you have to be willing to curtail the NRA and the gun manufacturers and distributors of guns.
Look to Australia's lesson, otherwise you're whistling in the wind.
14
Dear Pastor,
God is trying to tell us something. You have a bully pulpit, for real. Use it. Spread the word that, however you interpret the 2nd Amendment, it needs to be repealed. Now.
11
Chris, you are so sure it should be repealed, maybe you can answer a question I’ve had for a long time. The Founding Fathers gave us the 2nd Amendment. Both parts (owning weapons & forming non governmental militias). In those days anyone who could afford one, had at least one. Usually a long gun (pistols where not very accurate). In cities, towns, villages, & way out in the middle of nowhere, they had rifles. Why? Women could walk into a gunsmith & buy a gun, couldn’t buy or sell property, couldn’t vote, but, could buy a gun. Slaves could be handed a gun & told to go into the forest & shoot animals for food. Often were. At least at first, until the plantation owners got scared of them. So buying or using a gun was no big deal. So, why did they think our Constitution needed an amendment to make sure We the People could continue to own firearms? Well, they had just had a war to get away from a leader who was patently insane, who wanted to take everything anyone had for himself & for the other nobles, gentry, rich people. (Sound familiar?) They wanted US to be able to fight back WHEN not if someone tried to turn our democracy into a dictatorship with them on top. They knew it would happen eventually. So, the 1st & 2nd Amendments give us the power to organize an armed militia (army) to remove this person, these people. If we don’t have FREEDOM, we can’t have SAFETY. What we do need for the 2nd Amendment is responsibilty & penalties. That was true then & NOW.
Be like Australia. Get rid of the guns. End all violence everywhere.
12
How many guns would Jesus own? The hypocrisy knows no bounds.
14
"You can pray until you faint, but unless you get up and try to do something, God is not going to put it in your lap."
-- Fannie Lou Hamer (1917- 1977)
14
God uses a crazy person with a deadly weapon to bring people home? I'm sorry, I don't get it.
9
"Things like this don’t happen in small towns like ours."
Guess what reverend, they happen more often than you care to admit.
There are probably just as many nuts per capita in my tiny town of 710 as in New York City.
But you entitled to all your myths.
New Sweden, Maine, 2010 population 602
"The town made national news headlines in 2003 when a man poisoned the coffee urn at the local Lutheran church, sickening 15 parishioners and killing one. On April 27, 2003, 78-year-old Walter Reid Morrill, known to the town by his middle name, died of arsenic poisoning after drinking coffee at the Gustaf Adolph Lutheran Church in New Sweden, and 15 other, mostly elderly churchgoers became il, three of them seriously." (Wikipedia)
6
Violence should never happen anywhere, Pastor Curry, and there are good people everywhere, not just in church. Time for those good people to stand up to the gun lobby, which is all about money, and we know what Jesus said about that.
12
So President Trump -- a Sargent Friday, "just-the-facts" kind of man -- said Kelley would have killed "hundreds" more people had the armed good guy outside not shot at him after Kelley left the church.
Obviously Trump missed a few facts:
1) Kelley had already killed and wounded 46 children, parents, churchgoers inside.
2) And he had already dropped his semi-automatic rifle inside before he left.
What Kelley could have done was killed or wounded one more -- the good guy bystander -- with the handgun Kelley had left. Fortuitously, Kelley killed only himself.
Given that the President is so generous in making such ignorant, untrue and inflated statements almost every time he opens his mouth, I wish the media would use every opportunity to point out the idiocy to his words.
Immediately after quoting such lies and bamboozles, journalists should, nay have an obligation to, insert the truth. It has to come immediately following each stupid quoted or paraphrased remark. It's a great method of educating that part of the populace which has yet to catch on fully to this man with the hot-air-balloon mouth.
After all, what's the value in having Trump tell such frequent and delicious lies and inventions if journalists don't take full advantage? It would be fun to write the corrections, fun to read them and even, as a side benefit, good journalism.
7
It's very shocking to your community of believers to be killed in a sanctified setting like one of your important churches. However, it seems they are great resource as well. My prayers do not go with you, as I'm an atheist, my thoughts certainly do. How about some gun control ? Your church is a soft target, just like a movie theater, shopping mall, concert venue, it's no better to be mowed down in church ( as I've heard on Fox and Friends ) then at the Multiplex. I'm sorry for your loss.
12
Talk, talk, talk. How long will it be before the next gun massacre? And still no action. Oh but we can pray.
6
If any place on Earth is a sacred space, where God is real, it is every place.
3
Trump's ongoing attacks on Chicago are lies and actually have nothing to do with shootings here since Chicago is far from being the number one crime city. These his attacks on Chicago are pointedly aimed at native Chicagoan Obama. Trump is absolutely obsessed with the former president and as a white supremacist he abhors a black man's popularity. Mass murders are now endemic in the entire United States, a country tourists fear visiting and which now terrorize our citizens. If you aren't safe in church where are you safe? If you are a child and you aren't safe in school where are you safe? If you aren't safe at home where are you safe? The NRA is much responsible for America's mass shootings in that it wont renounce its cowboy gun toting ignorance ways.
5
Churches are no more "sacred" than any place where people gather peacefully. Violence should never happen in parks, theaters, shopping malls, restaurants, bike paths, schools, courthouses, etc. either...but then, Welcome To The NRASA.
9
Mr. Curry, Did you happen to read "The Lost Children of Tuam" published in this same paper that presented your contribution ?
I am not at all confronting your humanitarian concerns. They are wonderful, sincere and respected here. It is the "watching over us" that concerns me.
2
Rather than romanticizing the latest massacre, I suggest the pastor fight for gun legislation.
12
Is there a synagogue in La Vernia, Pastor Curry? A mosque? I saw no mention of any and was just curious.
5
This article is a particularly annoying piece of fluff. You're welcome to your view that "church is sacred space" if you want.... but in fact every human being is the real "sacred space", and only when we respect the sacred space of all others will any of us be safe. Church is no more sacred than a rock concert or my home. We should all be safe wherever we are.... and for a pastor to overlook that in favor of his particular "space" is distasteful.
10
I was shocked to read (ashamed to say that I did not even know, let alone, have forgotten) that from 1999 to 2004 (appx) there WAS a law that prohibited the sale of AR-15s......but they simply let it expire. Sheesh!
The other big question I have, is WHY aren't the POLICE campaigning for gun regulation? Surely that is the biggest danger to them and their authority....they should be first in the campaign line....
10
My, my. the Godly claim exemption from reality. The US is an exceptionally violent place; its more rabidly religiose have assaulted or killed those with whom they disagree (at women's health clinics; those of other faiths than Christianity; those of 'other' sexual natures), and the Texan godly are no less likely to pack heat than 'the rest of us.'
For the children affected - injured or orphaned - I have profound sympathy. For the surviving adults? Contempt. You've done nothing I can see to call for the restriction of weapons of war, to soldiers. Yet you whine piteously when the consequences of that inaction actually hit you. Lacking moral base, you merely contribute to the Trumpian swamp. Consider this a God-given reminder to reconsider your ways. Bet you don't.
6
If "Churches are places where the spirit of God is felt... where manners are expected and vulgarity is shunned," WHY do so many so-called Christians support the vulgar so-called president??
You guys don't REALLY care about "vulgarity" - you just care about it not being directed at you. Vulgarity in speaking of blacks, immigrants and women seems to be highly supported by your so-called 'Christians' who support all that vulgarity coming from Trump.
8
Are you, or anyone else in your gun happy state, really suggesting that deranged mass murderers must respect your chosen safe spaces. That because you are god-fearing christians you should be safer than anyone else? That being in a small town should immunize you from what everyone else must endure or at least fear? Work to prevent tragedies such as these, and quit suggesting that because you are rural, white and christian that your lives are somehow worth more or your tragedy is greater than moviegoers in Colorado or school children in Connecticut. Get a governor that doesn't feel embarrassed that his state sold fewer guns than another state.
7
and, a church is no more of a sacred sanctuary than a gay bar or a concert or a cafeteria.
how do we kill the very monster we created?
4
Pastor, when are you going to speak out against militant Christian terrorists, guns intended to kill large numbers of people, and the evil concept of life after death that allows good Christians to sin here and now which is where it really counts?
3
“The idea that such a thing would happen in a sacred space, a place where families are supposed to be safe, has angered many people.” I get just as angry when it happens in an “unsacred space.” Why don’t you?
7
in short, no room for atheists. may the deceased RIP~
3
All life is sacred, and a child's life all the more as it is a parent's and a society's highest responsibilty to protect our children. What happend at the church was horrific, but Sandy Hook, and the failure for any legislation to emerge in its aftermath, remains for me the greatest blasphemy.
Just a week ago we heard General Kelly citing the military as seperate and apart in their moral rughteouness in our society. Yet here we have a situation where the military owns significant responsibility for this horror.
How was a man who beat his wife cracked the skull of an infant only given a one-year sentence? How was a man who presnted such a violent threat not entered into our civillian database of criminals?
The military trains people to kill. Add that to eisting or emerging mental health problems and you have a distinct threat to society which should be proactively met by integrating the military justice system with our civillian system.
4
Nice piece but no mention of the need for sensible gun control. What would Jesus have said to people carrying weapons in his name and of those not speaking out. Sometimes even the best of Religious people forget what Jesus actually taught. I assure you pastor, if you are in fact reading scripture, it has nothing to do with owning guns that are meant mainly to kill other humans. So save your preaching, unless you’re willing to fight for true Christian beliefs, even in small town Texas. Lay down your weapons!
6
Good to hear the pastor doesn't think there should be mass shootings in church. Why not take that a step further: There shouldn't be mass shootings anywhere.
10
Church or not. This kind of thing should not happen anywhere.
4
Innocence is being slaughtered, sacrificed, on an altar of madness. Prayer will not stop the beast. Madness does not recognize sanctity. If anything it sees it as a target. By now this should be clear to everyone. It is time for all religious leaders to move beyond prayer to outright action, to convene and step up to asking our elite leadership caste, both political and business, what they are doing to mitigate future occurrences of such sacrilegious behavior. We cannot accept them acting as Pontius Pilot any longer.
John~
American Net'Zen
3
Amen. Thank you for sharing this and for the NY Times for publishing it.
1
This "not us" thinking is what divides the nation. I'm sorry this happened to anyone, but the US's violence problem is not isolated. I'm sure there's domestic violence in your little town, as there is across the nation. And, by the way, the larger suburbs and big cities do have their sacred spaces, too.
2
“God, guns and America.” It isn’t a mental health issue. Many have pointed out that women in the US rarely kill with guns. This is an issue of culture. Trump in Asia just boasted with glee about how this nation makes the best military weapons In the world. When the Christian churches in this nation start preaching against The NRA we might be able to have rational conversations about guns.
4
Every now and then I see a comment worth repeating, so that newer readers to the comments are more likely to see it. This one was posted by Moxiemom in PA. I can only say to her, "Amen Sister !!
" "The idea that such a thing would happen in a sacred space, a place where families are supposed to be safe, has angered many people."
THAT'S what makes you angry??? It really shouldn't happen ANYWHERE. Were you angry when little tiny kids were shot up in their classrooms? Were you angry when Dylan Roof shot up the church in Charleston?
It shouldn't happen in a Kindergarten classroom. It shouldn't happen in a movie theater. It shouldn't happen at the mall. It shouldn't happen in a club. It doesn't matter where the people are. People are people and they shouldn't be shot anywhere."
6
Reverend Curry, Small town America does not have a monopoly on goodness. Everything you described is found right here in metropolitan Baltimore. Outside my window, weekend after weekend, there are charity races for every cause under the sun. Our hospitals treat people from all over the world. The Methodist Church might host girl scout meetings but you don't join that church to participate in girl scouts. Same with soccer, AA meetings, what have you. It is disturbing to read or hear people from small towns speak (preach) as if they have a monopoly on God and everything precious.
6
Pastor Curry, it is fine that you and your congregation and others pray for and hold blood drives and feed the survivors of this tragedy. But I believe the people that were killed or injured were in church, praying, when this happened. Probably some were praying for God to save them when they were gunned down. Being religious and praying does not save us from evil. God has no hands. It is up to us to do everything we can to protect the innocent. The greatest sin we can commit is to see evil and do nothing about it. There are a lot of conflicting opinions on the gun issue, but the one statistic that is undeniable is that more guns = more lethal violence. We have to get a many gun as possible off the street and out of the hands of people who will use them to commit murder of innocent people, especially military style weapons. That is the only thing that will make a meaningful difference. I for one am angry. I am so tired of politicians offering their "prayers" and nothing else to help stop this from happening. Their cowardice is disgusting, and our support of those cowards is making cowards of us all.
2
The more I think about this article, the more ridiculous it seems.
I went to Bob Jones University (a fact I don't confess very often!), and "Dr. Bob" used to say "To a Christian all ground is holy ground; every bush a burning bush." Unless Mr. Curry was as indignant about the recent slaughter at the concert in Las Vegas, he has no right to protest the slaughter at a church in TX.
Every life is sacred. In church or out.
5
Steven Curry, I learn from Readers' Pick no. 1 by Socrates that 73% in Wilson County voted for Donald Trump and 25% for Hillary Clinton.
Your belief that such killings cannot take place in a church is undercut by these facts.
The man who entered the First Baptist Church 7 miles from your own church left not only 26 people whose lives had been taken but also 15 30-round magazines as a record of the number of shots released in the short time that the church video will document for FBI analysts.
At one time long past there were restrictions on the sale of such weapons. But here from Wikipedia is a record of what the party favored by Wilson County voters did to make it possible for the shooter to release those 450 shots.
"The Federal Assault Weapons Ban enacted in 1994 expired in 2004. Attempts to renew this ban have failed, as have attempts to pass a new ban, such as the Assault Weapons Ban of 2013 (AWB 2013)."
The President your people helped to elect shows no interest in restoring that ban so yes something as terrible as what happened in the First Baptist Church will happen again.
God is powerless to change that.
Only-NeverInSweden.blogspot.com
Dual citizen US SE
6
A church is neither sacred nor special when it comes to gun violence.
God helps those who help themselves.
Time for the people to get serious about gun safety!
America is awash in guns; that's why there is gun violence... even in churches.
2
I reject the premise that rhis shouldn't happen in a church. In a civilized world, this should not happen anywhere.
2
I would suggest, Rev. Curry, that you take this problem up with your Chief Executive Officer. Surely a competent deity could see to it that his people were safe while they went about his business. It's the least one could expect.
What's the story? "Omniscient, omnipotent, and benevolent," I think it is?
Pick any two.
Violence certainly happened in the time of Jesus, didn't it? Something about him being nailed to a cross. And speaking of sacred spaces, Jesus cast the money lenders out of the temple, didn't he?
Sorry, but this feels like you've taken this tragedy and turned it into an opportunity to get up on your soap box and preach of the glorious role the church plays in your community.
And your statement that "such a thing would happen in a sacred space," bothers me. Do you really believe it is somehow "worse" to murder 26 people in cold blood in a church as opposed to a school or a mall, a dance club or a concert?
I understand you're in a lot of pain right now but your piece doesn't move you, or us, any closer to understanding the evil that happened in your county the other day. Until your country grasps the fact that having such ready access to powerful firearms leads directly to these tragedies, they will continue to happen with disturbing regularity – whether you're huddling in a church, a mall, a school or a concert crowd.
3
I thought so called religious people believed God was everywhere. So therefore isn't every place sacred?
1
"Things like this don’t happen in small towns like ours."
Obviously it does.
4
Lovely. Thoughts and prayers, again, are the answer. Blind faith that your god will save us all is a wonderful sentiment. But come election day, you and your flock vote for people like Trump, Pence, and anyone who follows the NRA play book which says gun violence is the price we must pay for the unrestrained spread of guns across America. It is more important to make sure the mentally deranged, domestically violent, people on 'no fly" lists, and criminally inclined have complete and unfettered access to every weapon that our merchants of death can manufacture and sell with the blessings of the NRA.
Sorry, Texas, for the wake-up call, but until you start voting for politicians who will restrict access to assault weapons designed to increase lethality, there will only be more of these senseless incidents. So, pray all you like, but I don't have a lot hope for you until you face the reality of your submission to the evils of the gun merchants. The teachings of Jesus help us lead a good and full life, but you still have live in "GUN AMERICA".
8
I am now apprehensive of attending Sunday church services, for fear of being shot dead.
Yeah... it’s as ironic as equating possession and of guns with freedom.
2
Who would Jesus shoot? They stories I read in the Bible lead me to believe that Jesus would be telling everyone to get rid of their guns. Preach that message, Pastor, start a new trend, go for it.
4
Unfortunately, Reverend Curry, there are those who turn away from the one God and worship false idols. One of those is guns. Not only the shooter from this past Sunday, but how many others have made an unholy entity of their firearm or firearms and put their use and misuse before God's commandments?
3
It's very sobering to think that we (in concert with the NRA and cowardly Republican politicians) have given a handful of angry, disgruntled loons a power over this nation that the most vile terrorist can only dream of.
They have turned our churches, movie theatres, small towns, concert venues, work places and our public spaces into killing fields, robbing us of an essential American freedom: the freedom to feel safe in our daily lives.
Isis could surely take a page from our playbook.
2
This article makes me angry. People in rural areas need to wake up and stop swallowing self-righteous pablum like this:
"Things like this don’t happen in small towns like ours. Those who moved to the country to protect their family from the perceived dangers of the city were especially shaken."
Yes, indeed, "things like this" do happen in small towns like yours. People are no better and no more caring in small towns than they are in the big cities. Nor are they any less prone to violence or mental illness or depravity. This paean to small-town virtues reads to me like a massive denial of a reality that needs to be directly and courageously confronted by community leaders like yourself, pastor: your congregations don't just worship god, they worship guns.
Your rural communities are armed to the teeth. And not just with hunting rifles and shotguns: with handguns and assault weapons that are designed only for killing people. This is sick. Right along with the bible, the second amendment has become sacred scripture in communities like yours. Preparedness to kill other people is celebrated as a virtue. Your community is an armed camp, in constant fear of—or maybe lust for—confrontation with perceived (and mostly imagined) threats to family and freedom. Pastor, if you want to heal your community, celebrate the good, but please don't use the good to shield yourself and your parishioners from the dark sickness that makes "things like this" not aberrations but regular occurrences.
45
Oh, 617to416, your anger has overwhelmed your reason. In fact the killing of 26 people (and others presumably injured in physical-life-changing ways) IS unusual, in a city, at a concert, or in a church-community with attendance of 30 to 50 people. Can you cite another example of a rural community where about 7% of the population was shot down?
How is your righteous anger different in any way from the traditional "Blame the Victim!"
This community is in the very early, very painful stage of grieving. Have you ever grieved the death of someone you love? The violent death? It is excruciating. The decent thing to do is cut all members of this little community, and their friends, a lot of slack-- so much slack they can say or do whatever. They get a pass. We don't. We get to hammer our legislators (if they aren't on board), we get to give up our luxe-coffee and donate to anti-gun groups, we get to march, whatever. So please, instead of making anti-gun people look like monsters, take that anger and aim it where it belongs.
2
Isn't is sad to live in a country where, if someone refers to "the church massacre" or "the school massacre," we have to ask, "which one?"
20
It is sad to live in a country where people are so divided into exclusive tribes, taught to hate & fear anybody even slightly different, that they can see the "other" as less than human & lack the empathy needed for all of us to live together peacefully without killing each other so often & wantonly.
Were we always a country founded around psychopathy, or has this grown over the history of the country? Read Pulitzer-Prize-Winning Professor Richard Hofstadter's 1964 essay "The Paranoid Style in American Politics" to see that there always was a segment of conspiracy theorists, filled with hate & rage at the "Other." The only element that changed across the generations was who the "other" was. The Illuminati, the Freemasons, the Mormons, the Catholics, the "Pope of Rome," Jesuits in particular, the Crowned Heads of Europe, the Inernational Bankers (dog-whistle for the Jews), immigrants (Chinese, then Irish, Germans, Hispanics, & Muslims), Socialism, Trade Unionism, Communism, Liberalism, Islam, the Tri-Lateral Commission, Bilderberg, the U.N., & on & on.
The true believers ALWAYS see themselves standing on the ramparts defending "their world & values" against the pure, implacable evil. This either/or vision allows for no compromise & is seen as a zero-sum world of Pure Good vs Pure Evil.
Why should a church be any more sacred than another space? These things shouldn't happen anywhere, ever. All places are holy and deserving of peace and safety.
8
Took the words right out of my mouth. Well said. And why would anyone think that someone who has a mind to shoot a bunch of people is going to steer clear of a church? Not like we're talking about a god-fearing shooter, obviously.
Pastor Curry seems outraged because this violence happened in a Christian church. Is he just as outraged when it happens in a mosque or synagogue? I don't recall that he wrote an op-ed when a mosque in was bombed in August, or when anti-semitic violence is directed at synagogues (ADL reports anti-semitic incidents are up 67% this year).
Personally, I don't think this kind of violence should happen anywhere - whether in a "sacred" place or not.
3
Pastor Curry, with all due respect, I respect prayer as a means of healing and bringing people together to heal suffering. However, let's not undermine the wisdom of the saying "God helps those who help themselves". Pray, but act too.
2
The author mistakes the things we make for the life we cherish. It is life (in this case, human life), which might be said to be "sacred." The space someone physically occupies while having his/her life violently torn away is irrelevant. There is no good place to be murdered.
There is also no such thing as a man-made sacred space, for all interiors are created by artificial means, and acquire no special status through the process of hammering and sheet-rocking. Nor do whatever ideas people carry around in their heads make a space sacred.
Life was important to the individual long before there was any artificial construct known as a church, and will be long after images of churches are found only in fading photographs. I wonder if Pastor Curry would write so eloquently about the thousands of people murdered every year in the streets, anonymously, beyond the glare of the sensational.
I doubt it, because I don't see myself in this piece. I'm never in a church unless I'm playing music for the service. This piece assumes the entire world is "Christian," whatever that actually means. But of course it's not. Therefore, I don't think Pastor Curry can see me either. Too bad; he's probably a very nice man.
4
Thank you, Pastor Curry, for speaking out so gently and lovingly from you place of obvious pain and loss. Harsh comments reacting with apparent anger to your love make me even sadder than I already was over this tragic event.
2
I am quite sad that you view the comments here as harsh and angry. What I am reading is thoughtful and respectful disagreement.
4
I agree, most churches are great places, and many religious folks are great folks (does this depend upon the religion we are pondering?). Anyhow, what does this have to do with anything? My condolences.
1
I am deeply sorry for your sudden, violent, & tragic loss of lives. BUT once again this was a white male, loner, with a known record of domestic abuse and mental health issues, YET he was allowed to buy guns. The system failed hugely in that the Air Force failed to register him in Nat database. I wonder how many others have all branches of the military failed to register? How many domestic abusers have charges dropped? How many (or few) women are believed when they report domestic abuse? This man had threatened his mother-in-law. Was this known to law emforcement? Is there a process in place that law enforcement automatically checks a database to determine if a domestic abuser/threat owns guns? Pastor, to keep ALL of us safe EVERYWHERE we need gun control!
3
As soon as we as a country chose inaction after Newtown, we were forever condemned to a lifetime of these atrocities. There are no sacred spaces.
2
What is very sad here is the hypocrisy of those who say that limiting access to certain types of guns will not produce desired results. But they (e.g. Trump, Cruz) pray for the victims and their families. What they seem to forget is that the latest group of victims were in church praying when they were murdered. Nothing against prayer, but it does seem that God helps those who help themselves.
3
Tell me, Pastor Curry,
Did you have this same response when 9 parishioners were murdered in a church in Charleston, NC? Those were people whose lives revolved around their church as well. Were you this angry then? Did you hold prayer services? Did that help? Did you write editorials about how families are supposed to be safe in "the presence of the divine?"
Or does mass killing have to come to each and every corner of this country in order for each and every one of us to feel this pain?
Why is it that the only member of the mass-murder-of-the-month club is the US?
1
No place where human beings gather is sacred nor holy for those who do not share your faith nor politics nor economics nor history nor mental, emotional and physical health.
With the exception of gender, color aka race, ethnicity and national origin, no human collective endeavor has been more violent, judgmental, cruel and deadly inhumane and inhuman than religion. Crusade and jihad are typical across all faiths. Every faith is a supernatural condemnation and critique of every other faith. Reason, logic, commonsense, objectivity and natural law are useless in refuting the negativity. While all faiths cannot be true, they can all be wrong.
While I am an African Methodist Episcopal Christian, I do not believe that my faith is better than any other. Nor do I want my faith interfering in politics. And I believe in science. My faith was the first faith created by Africans in America, when white Methodists in Philadelphia physically ejected Richard Allen and his fellow free-person of color congregation members from their church.
4
The United States of America is well armed country . Sorry for sounding crass , but what did we expect ! Emotional instability surrounds us . Anger , hatred and resentment boiling over . We might just need to get used to this type of violence. My apologies and good wishes to all affected .
2
as I read this, I couldn't help thinking that Mr. Curry would use the opportunity to encourage readers to push for sane gun laws. I was very disappointed. Not one word. Sad.
3
I would like to agree, but as many know, church time is often considered the most divided time in the country. Churches in many places in the south are nothing but political meetings where liberals are affirmed as the sinners every Sunday.
In the Obama era down here in KY every Sunday in most of these "churches" here was and still is a place to decry the many wrongs of the Democrats and Obama. They're really places to replay Fox television.
These so called "churches" are more political and more divisive than perhaps even actual political gatherings themselves.
So, many of these "churches" especially in the south are responsible for the politicians and "christians" who support and enact the gun laws that enable such killers to access guns easily. They're also responsible for the politics that rains violence through policing on minorities, and the current harassment of immigrants.
So, it is quite hypocritical for these "pastors" to say "oh, this should not happen here."
3
Pastor Curry,
If you believe in God, then you must recognize all of earth and its people are sacred. Mass shootings in schools, and shopping malls, concert halls, and so forth are no less tragic. First Baptist Church is NOT the first house of worship to experience this type of violence. Educate yourself on gun violence and where it occurs. Recognize we need more than prayer to stop this senseless violence in our communities whether it be in a church, synagogue or mall.
3
As a ordained United Church of Christ minister I hoped you would speak to the desperate need for gun control that honors the values of rural people while protecting us all from harm. People of faith are now called upon to speak prophetically to protect those who are at risk of violence from harming themselves and others. Churches have remained too silent on this issue for too long.
35
Here in Santa Rosa, CA - at a small, wine-country hotel we are just opening - on Monday night a cabbie dropped off a young family - Mexican-Americans - burnt out of their home. We had offered them a FEMA-sponsored room; before he left the cabbie understood that the young family's FEMA benefits were messed up (They were ok, in fact). He posted this news on FB and asked if people could help.
We fielded at least a dozen calls from random parties offering to pay for their room. A man dropped an envelope at the front desk for the family; turned out to be stuffed with cash. Enough meals were delivered to feed half the hotel, which we did. This happened yesterday, two weeks since the fires were beaten back, and from a community still reeling.
Church is where the heart is...church is a hotel...church is where we have enough sense to care about gun control...church is where those with the most gladly share with the least...church is where we care about the environment...church is where we pursue inquiry as a matter of faith...church is where we watch over one another, where we have agency...that's my church here on the heathen, wine-soaked coast.
53
Really? Because a church seems to be a place that gods let parishioners down. HOW do you have faith in a murdering god?!?
I don't see that "caring about gun control" has given any Christians exemptions from being victims or perpetrators of gun violence. Maybe this comes from my Jewish roots where Christians have been persecuting, shunning, exiling, torturing, & murdering my people for 2 millennia.
1
Pastor, as a citizen and fellow Christian, I mourn with you and pray for your congregation. I do, however, see error and oversight in your message. Do you really think that such an act in a sanctuary was worse than the slaughter of children in Sandy Hook? I admire the fact that the community came together, but your sentiments that "things like this don’t happen in small towns like ours. Those who moved to the country to protect their family from the perceived dangers of the city" is disturbing and ignorant. Besides the fact that many small towns (perhaps not yours) battle with crime and opioid abuse is ignored. The fact that there are many caring people in big cities - cities where outsiders and immigrants are welcomed, not demonized - is ignored. The fact that many churches have shown racial bias and a bewildering, blind support for a leader who is a poster child for division, dishonesty and all-around immorality, makes it unlikely that sanctuaries are the last bastion of spiritual and moral character. I am horrified by this event, but I am also disgusted by how most white evangelicals embrace this leader and their guns as much as they claim to embrace the cross.
60
As someone who does not attend church, my sacred space is my daily bike ride to work, where I try to ponder my life, experience nature, maintain my bodily health, and greet other riders. Unfortunately for me and many other cyclists, our sacred space is dangerous, polluted by noise, automobile exhaust, the hostility and carelessness of drivers, and the apathy of local government. Far too many people die violent deaths on our roads and streets, which should also be considered sacred spaces but are far too often designed and maintained as automobile dominated hellscapes. Not eveyone's sacred space is a church building.
7
"The idea that such a thing would happen in a sacred space"
Yes, this is horrifying, but your argument needs to be broadened, to include ANY "peaceable assembly", as referred to in the First Amendment. Churches, movie theaters, schools, concerts......ANY peaceful public gathering can be considered a "peaceable assembly", and should qualify for protection under the First Amendment. Second Amendment rights need to be balanced against other's First Amendment right to "peaceable assembly", and not just in church!
11
The problem is that it's not only about dying in church anymore. No one, anywhere is safe.
It's not enough to speak out in righteous outrage at what recently happened in the First Baptist Church in Sutherland Springs, Texas, because that too will eventually fade away, just like it did with every other mass shooting -- until the next one occurs.
And unless something drastic is done to reduce this unfettered access to guns, it's only a matter of time before it does.
This isn't about the 2nd Amendment, the NRA, or even common sense.
It's about saving human lives.
6
Didn't Jesus say something like: "wherever two or more are gathered together in my name, there I am in their midst?" Nevertheless, Pastor Curry is right. Good manners expected, vulgarity shunned, indeed. Would that those sentiments were more prevalent in Congress, the Market, Fox...
The little river that flows through the little town where I was born is called the Termon, from Latin via Gaelic, meaning sanctuary. When I hear GOP politicians ranting about sanctuary cities, I smile, knowing that sanctuary was a practice of bygone times by which civil authority ended at the border with Church property. The insistence on immunity for Church property from violence or from taxes makes little sense if Churchmen support oppressive or demeaning laws.
6
You are right. Churches should be sacred space but many people who believe in this also believe in the NRA and right to have assault weapons. Do you have the courage then to fight for laws that will protect all of us by having more gun control. It is easy to "talk". It is not just " people killing people"as the NRA would like us to believe. It is the type of weapons and bullets available with little vetting.
7
Ok.
Deep breath. Exhale.
First of all, Pastor, I am incredibly sorry for the loss of life and for the loss you have personally experienced.
Because you have a platform--and because your voice is influential enough to be heard in the New York Times, I need to say something to you. I offer it in the spirit of kindness and on behalf of all good people everywhere.
Pastor: Every space is a sacred space. I no more want to be shot in my home, than I do at the movies, than I do at Church. While it is true that the people were overtly praying, you do not know what is in the hearts of people as they go about their day. No one deserves to be murdered anywhere. Not at Church, nor at home, nor any place in between.
Secondly, as a person with a voice, I urge you to become informed about the many statistics that show that the proliferation of guns is what is to blame for the deaths we are experiencing. Although there are mental health issues worldwide, only the United States has such a high rate of gun violence. And chillingly, many of those guns are in states like yours--red states, states that tout the Bible as an excuse to abdicate from critical thinking about the problems we face today.
If you love all people, you must protect all people. If you are truly doing the work of Christ, you must speak out for the truth. And the truth is we don't need guns in our lives. They exist for one reason only: to cause the suffering and death of God's souls. Animals suffer. Humans suffer.
16
Pastor, Steve, I applaud your good thoughts and intentions, but would be remiss - as an ordained United Methodist elder - if I did not point out that ALL of creation is sacred, not just the interior of a church. Thus, everyday gun violence is a sin against God and humanity.
Pastors in too many church sanctuaries have preached sermons that not only incite, but also affirm violence against/exclusion of members of the LGBTQ community and immigrants. The church itself needs to repent and accept responsibility for its perpetuation of social stigmatizing.
11
How is something your god allows a sin against it? If your god is omnipotent, then it controls everything.
This circular logic that is religion is so painful to witness.
1
While I sympathize with the pastor's loss, his statement about "a place where families are supposed to be safe" seems a bit parochial. Are people supposed to be safer in church than in school? At a concert? At work? In their own home?
17
Putting faith in an imaginary God that “watches over us” is a major impediment to a better life. Such a belief may offer comfort, but it is a belief in something unreal and will never lead to real solutions. What IS real is the Universe, the only thing worthy of being called God. As long as we respect its laws (e.g., not to put too much CO2 into the atmosphere) it sustains us. Like children emerging from adolescence, we are on our own and must solve our own problems. What is sacred is the Universe that created us, what is profane is the rejection of knowable reality in favor of our mental images.
5
Partly it was this sort of pabulum that led me to stop identifying myself as a Christian and become a "secular deist".
Of course a church should be a safe space where no one with a gun should come and shoot down dozens of people. So should a shopping mall, a fast-food restaurant, a public park, and a public street. No place in this country should be subject to the kind of horror we saw just saw in Texas; and in Las Vegas before that; and in Newtown, Orlando, and Sandy Hook before that. What makes the situation even worse, of course, is that we will experience another mass shooting in this country, probably before the year is out.
People can write about the sanctity of the church all they want, but the fact is that we need sane and stringent gun laws. Until we get them, mass shootings will continue to happen in whatever sort of locations the shooters think will serve their purposes.
My heart goes out to the victims, and friends and families of victims, of all the mass shootings that have occurred. That said, if we have to bring God into it - God helps those who help themselves. Vote for sane gun laws.
5
The number of people here implying that the church somehow deserved what happened or that churches are bad places because this particular county voted for Trump is sickening but not surprising to me.
Churches like this do the hard work of visiting the sick, caring for the old, providing community for the young. This is not "cultural Christianity," this is the essence of what Christianity should be. In my earlier life, I belonged to evangelical churches, but over time have become more and more progressive, and now belong to a church that is quite liberal. But I have noticed that same hard work in all the churches I have belonged to. Votes are nice, but they do not immediately, physically, tangibly help that lonely, sick person who is dying across the street. Of course, anyone can help that person- you don't have to be religious. But churches make it an explicit mission, and put in the work of the day to day grind even when no one else wants to. Especially in rural communities that Democrats often forget.
2
I am Jewish and a person of deep personal faith. I am strongly affiliated with my Temple, I will be there for a meal before international movie night, prior to my running off to the opera with another member. My second religious affiliation is an interfaith group that celebrates those religious groups who affirm the full and equal value of GLBT people, so I am not afraid of Christianity.
"Christ commands us to love our neighbor as ourselves, and the churches are where the people come together to serve in ways bigger than each of us can serve individually"
This is the most important piece of Pastor Curry's article, that faith must guide us to helping each other in times of need, being "of the community" not separate from it when we feel like it, for selfish reasons. I think that of the community means trying to protect each other, the time has come to demand that our representatives TALK about trying for more gun safety. Reality check: some are going to favor very strict laws, some are going to reject that concept with "the Nazis took guns from the people." Both sides have their points, both sides need to compromise, push and pull until we can reach a medium. Once we have done that, in good faith, lets move on to the next important issue, whatever it may be and break down the walls that stall us governing this country.
Let's use this horrible tragedy as a starting point of remembering that all of us in the United States are in this together and reunite as family.
2
Stephen,
It's like President Trump said, what happened in your Church was a "mental health issue". People with mental health issues live in small towns and go to Churches too, and there is simply no way to predict which one will "lose it". So I think you need to get used to the idea that mass shootings will continue to happen in your town and churches. But take heart, at least you have the good man with a gun who killed the shooter! It's like what Bill O'Reilly said, weekly mass shootings are the price good American Christians pay for freedom.
6
The quiet innocence of a country church was shattered by violence and death. It's horrible, but, unfortunately, is no longer shocking. Evil has been allowed to permeate our daily lives, armed with the ability to kill on a mass level for too long.
After 9/11, someone put a bomb in their shoe in order to blow up the plane and now we remove our shoes in the security lines. The desire for safety in cars has evolved from the creation of safety belts to children spending most of their childhood in car seats. When there is an obvious risk, we work to solve it, but not with guns. How dare we politicize the tragedy? How dare we try to infringe upon another person's rights?
But what about my rights? My right to NOT arm myself. To send my kids to school, to go to the movies, a concert, church, any kind of gathering and not be afraid?
In the midst of reminders to turn off one's phone and to buy concessions in the lobby, movie theatres admonish us to be familiar with the exits, report suspicious behavior, and, in the case of emergency, leave quickly and keep going. We all know why.
Our children practice "active shooter" drills. Arguments are made for metal detectors, armed security guards, high tech security systems, and even arming the teachers. Our schools must be turned into virtual forts so our kids are safe to learn.
Our reps have listened to the NRA long enough and blood is on their hands. Enough is enough.
61
Pastor Curry, if prayer offers you and your congregants solace and peace, that's terrific, but let's not use prayer as a synonym for action, for prevention of these horrors. Your upset seems to be even more concerning because it happened in a church "a sacred place," to you and your ilk. The sacred place is the world, Pastor, not just a church. It shouldn't happen anywhere. That I don't find the church any more sacred than a school, a home, an arena, or a sidewalk, should tell you that many of us consider public and private places just as sacred as your church. That it happened in a church may help us get religious folk on the side of reason, on the side that says we have to act and prevent these things by sane laws and the prevention of guns in the hands of the sick, the felon, the abusers, the people who can't be trusted to act in a civilized manner. Pray as you wish, but act. Whether you believe god wants more angels or not is irrelevant. It's imperative that this killing stop! Do what you wish with your god, but let action do its work. Preach to the community about laws and overcoming the power of the NRA, and certainly pray if it makes you feel better.
62
You paint a nice picture of your faith community and wish all of you well in this hour of sorrow, but would offer a few things to complete the picture.
Much of what you talk about is cultural Christianity- essentially the use of a church as a community center. The problem with that is many churches- especially in the South and rural Midwest, include a healthy dose of political Conservatism along with the Gospel message of inclusion, grace and acceptance. If you are or support GLBTQ rights, the environmental movement, support abortion rights, are an open Progressive Democrat or other things you will feel and sometimes see the pushback. I know because I grew up in the Midwest and South and used to live in Texas while being stationed at Fort Sam Houston.
If you fit into the straightjacket of the modern evangelical mold and it's allied Catholic analogs it can be a wonderful and affirming place. If you deviate much, you will at minimum feel an outsider and in some cases be asked to leave.
26
"Almost every family here identifies with a church. In some cases, it’s more a matter of a family tradition than active participation. * * * In our community, there is a deep, solid, underlying faith in God, even if it doesn’t manifest itself in church attendance every week." –– Pastor Curry names, but seems afraid to confront head on, one of the major faith issues of the day: affiliation without commitment.
This is a comforting editorial highlighting ecumenical response to tragedy; I hope that response will include working for sensible gun safety laws and an increased commitment by church members.
11
In like kind well educated people revere great Catholic church architecture, the structure of the edifice of the building out striping the edifice of the theology.
Assuming there is a God - We are God's agents in the world. It's our responsibility to tend to the earth and to one another. It's our duty to work to create a just and fair society. In view of this, it's up to we humans to curtail the gun violence that really does make the US "exceptional." Prayers are cutting it. Only human action gives us any hope of fixing this horrendous problem.
8
I very much agree (assuming that "are cutting it", was meant to be "aren't"). Im not religious, but i do see the value in a church, a mosque, a synagogue. In as far as any organized religion is capable of bringing people together, they're important to the strength of society's fabric. But action is key, and this can take place anywhere there is inspiration and information.
This community sounds like an excellent place to raise a family with good strong values. Their faith is the glue that keeps them together. This is a lesson that should be followed by more people. Obviously this is what is lacking today in our society. We need more religious faith.
2
Unfortunately this type of community was what the killer was raised in. He had even attended this church. Check their personal histories. Many mass murderers were raised with religion. And then there are those pedophile priests. Nothing more to be said.
1
I couldn't agree more with the sentiments expressed in this piece, altho', it must be conceded, they are more aspirational than reality-based, as can be seen from the fact that these self-evident truths needed to be communicated in writing.
There's the famous story, of an advisor warning Josef Stalin, the Soviet dictator, that "the Pope won't like" assertion of absolute communist power over Poland, to which Stalin replied, scoffingly, "the Pope? How many divisions does he have?"
I agree that faith should be respected.
I also note that, as far as I understand, the murder of Thomas Becket in 1170 by noblemen seeking the favors of Henry II notwithstanding, churches were appreciated as places of sanctuary even during Medieval times.
But, fast forward to our era, and the murder of Archbishop Romero on the altar of the San Salvador Cathedral by rightist fanatics, or, more recently, the shootings in South Carolina, and it is clear that the sanctity of human life is no more valued in our sacred spaces of worship than on the mean streets of our toughest neighborhoods.
13
Pastor Curry, I too believe in God but prayers and forgiveness alone is simply not enough. Much more is needed. Action is needed by our President, Congress and state Governors and Legislatures.
Not until we as a nation enact laws to restrict guns and to properly treat mental health disorders can we begin to end this horrific cycle of gun related deaths.
More than 12,000 Americans have died this year alone from gun related causes. It’s an epidemic. And epidemics need treatment, not just prayers.
20
"A church in Wilson County is a community center where good people strive to do good for fellow human beings. A church in Wilson County is a home for extended family to share their lives. A church in Wilson County is a place where we come to mourn losses, grieve the death of a friend or relative, celebrate the joys of life and love. A church in Wilson County is a place where we connect with the God who loves us, watches over us, and, in the end, welcomes us home."
I belong to an Episcopal Church in New York city. We do all of the same things. We have the same hopes and fears. We worship the same God. We pray. We reach out to victims.
What none of us seem able to do is get ourselves past prayer and into action. This shooting happened in a church, but it was an act rooted in domestic violence. The reason that it exploded into an act of terror was the fact that a seriously mentally ill person was able, apparently with no trouble at all, to obtain a horrifyingly powerful weapon. It is harder to buy a bottle of Sudafed than an automatic weapon.
So what we need to do is take a lesson from Dr. Martin Luther King and translate prayer into action. Prayer is a wonderful thing, a comforting thing, an enriching thing. But prayer is not a to-do list for God, who, after all, helps those who help themselves.
33
I am, as it turns out, visiting Texas in this sad time. We skipped church on Sunday and went target practicing instead on Sunday. I grew up here, but I hardly recognize what it has become. Guns and armaments are everywhere. Weapons have become the ubiquitous idols, replacing our faith and driving out our humanity. Almost everybody, it seems, is "packing heat", and the Attorney General of Texas wants them to "carry" into church. We delight in the power it gives us over other people -and other peoples. Donald Trump, who carried Texas decisively, is abroad selling arms to various dictators and potentates, making it more likely that these will be used to hasten Armageddon. Bombs from our factories fall on Mosques and markets across the sands of Africa and the Middle East. Many of the mass shootings have been committed by veterans who have learned to love their AR-15s while serving in our professional armies. Those that live by the sword are in danger of dying by it.
27
Sir, I live in a community much like you describe...there are hundreds just as you describe in your essay. Thank you for your contribution to the nurturing of such community.
I also do social work in such a community, and know that what also exists in the midst of all of that "christian charity" is the rejection of people of other colors and faiths, indifference toward people deemed "different" and a strong commitment to what I call the "Fox News Narrative".
I deeply love my neighbors, they are generous and in so many ways are very kind...but they are the product (despite their calendar age) of a mythos that never really existed...that of a "Christian Nation"...in a sense they are victims of this mythos.
Unfortunately wherever this mythos is embraced there will be violence, either relational or physical...and as a trained Minister of the Gospel you have been taught, as have I, that wherever there are humans there is depravity.
They solution is of-course Love, one for another. Keep doing the work you do, but expand it to the rejected and the outcasts, the modern-lepers, much as Jesus taught us. I agree with the progressive political message, better treatment for mental illness (and all disease), better wages and living conditions, better support for those suffering from substance addiction and more equitable economic policies that support a vibrant middle-class. I agree with this message because I think it aligns with Jesus' message of Love and Grace.
16
Jesus message of love is not original to him, nor is his message of subservience to myth. There is nothing about elves, ghosts, or gods that makes then essential for practicing common humanity.
1
This pastor's words sadden me. A community is not made whole by 100 percent church participation among its citizenry, but by 100 percent agreement that honesty, integrity, empathy and compassion are integral factors of human cooperation and civility, from whatever source those values arise. The world will never be in agreement as to which ancient text will dominate. But agreement on basic human values will make the world a better place.
I'm not sure that this pastor with his boast of an entirely faithful Texan county is not part of the problem. From where I sit, I have no place in his county, whatever my personal virtues or faults which cannot compete in his vision with the miraculously more favorable virtues and faults of even the nastiest of his faithful.
15
You have described a kind, loving and gentle community, with genuine good deeds that all should admire. And I write this with all sincerity. You are good people. And like the rest of the country, I grieve with you too over this horrible tragedy. We have to do more than grieve, which is why this sentence struck me. "Things like this don’t happen in small towns like ours." The problem is that they do. They happen in towns like yours, ours and everyone's. These tragedies could strike anywhere in this country at anytime. That is why I plead with you to do more than grieve. Join us in working to create a kinder, gentler America, a renewed country that would have far fewer guns. And then maybe someday we could all believe that this like this don't happen in small or big towns like ours, and we would be right.
15
Pastor Curry, if you want to create a truly lasting memorial to the people in your church who died as they worshiped, then please -PLEASE - work toward sane gun control legislation at the statewide and national level. I live in New York, which has some of the strictest gun control laws in the country. No, those laws have not stopped gun violence, but on the other hand, they have made it a lot more difficult to have a massacre of the type your town has suffered. And most of us who support gun control have NO problem with hunting, target shooting or gun ownership for home protection. As in Texas, many parts of upstate New York are extremely rural, and local police protection is provided by state police or county sheriff patrols. I understand why someone who lives halfway up a dirt mountain road wants a gun - at the very least, it's protection against a rabid animal. But semi-automatic weapons for hobby use, when they only belong in the military or law enforcement? I don't get it, and until lawmakers get it at a national level, we will continue to have mass shootings.
25
Dairy farmer's daughter seconding your comments. I want every gun owner to have safety training ( that once was a major NRA role - offered at local schools upstate), to have to sign for ammunitions purchases, and to pass a background check. Even the responsible ones have at times been known to accidentally shoot a hunting companion, domestic animal or someone foolish to be out walking in deer season; irresponsible ones drink and shoot; others fail to understand the fascination little children have for guns - and their skill at getting at them - leading to accidental child deaths.
Those who are intent on murder - harder to corral, but they will have a harder time getting their hands on multiple weapons and ammunition if 99% of gun owners are following sane rules.
In the case of a truly disturbed guy like the one in Texas, or Las Vegas, the record of his antisocial and criminal behavior would be on record. If he had to go to a black market dealer, he could - but it would be harder - it would slow him down, which sometimes is enough to change the whole trajectory of a tragedy, and there would be a chance he'd be tracked.
2
I understand that humans have a great longing for a higher loving parent figure and that in the end, everything will be fine. But, Reverend, with all due respect, why can you not see from incidents like this (and there are so many) that this is all wishful thinking and that there obviously is no "God who loves us" in heaven or whereever? That we can only try to act here on earth to make our sociely and our living better and more just (while convening in a church and praying might make us feel better but does not change a thing)?
10
Thank you for this fine article. I appreciate it. I identify with the victims of this mass murder. The victims include all residents of the community.
I am sorry, but the message of this OP-ED completely eludes me. What are you trying to say, Pastor?
Is it that because this was a small peaceful town, these things should not happen here (but rather somewhere else? ) ? Is it that because this is a "sacred place" the killing should not have happened here - but better outside? Do you claim that the helping hands that arrived after the tragedy are a special feature of your Christian community? Or is the fact that people from different denominations mourned together really that noteworthy? What else should one have expected, I wonder?
Guess what, I am an atheist, living in Europe. And I am mourning the victims, too. But instead of desperately clinging to some unfounded belief that a church is a better place than any other place where people come together in community, would it not be more important to question just why the USA thinks that protecting the right to carry AR-15 rifles is more important than protecting its children? Would it not be time to request from your Evangelicals and your Congress that it was high time to put a stop to selling military style weapons? Add "in the name of God" to this request, if it helps. I am puzzled that, hours after praying people have been mowed down in a church, the only answer politicians seem to have is:"We pray for the families!" Well, good luck with that. Did not help much during the killing.
This OP-ED really left me puzzled and angered. What are you trying to say, Pastor?
27
Dear Reverend:
"The idea that such a thing would happen in a sacred place". It has happened before (remember the black church).
Furthermore mass killings will continue to happen in all kinds of settings, small rural communities, schools, theaters. And it is NO different wherever it happens, innocent people including children and fetuses are killed.
I feel tremendous pain and grief for those who have suffered at the hands of a person with a high powered gun. I also feel angry at the gunmen who destroy communities (wherever they are or what venue they chose to perpetrate their horrific act).
However I also feel a great anger toward the NRA and all the minions of people who support the right for people to own semi automatic guns and large amounts of ammunition.
Rest assured Reverend Curry, these mass killings will continue to happen as long as these weapons are allowed to be sold. Nothing will change because this recent event happened in a church in rural Texas (who has one of the least restriction of gun laws in the country).
I am truly sorry for your tremendous loss. Know of my prayers. In another month or two I will be offering my sympathy and prayers once again.
13
I'm pleased that churches are places of community in TX. Great that they support the families and community members affected by this latest outrage. But, I don't see that God protected anyone. And if the citizens of TX continue to value guns over safety, misinterpretation of the Second Amendment over facts about guns in our society, then this will simply happen over and over. So, Pastor, time to be the responsible person in your community who comes out in support of very strict gun control and against the NRA, which has exploited your ill informed flock in the name of an industry without morality.
18
If churches are supposed to be free of violence, where is it supposed to go? Elementary schools? Movie theaters? States or municipalities that don’t pause on Wednesday night for worship? Casinos in Vegas? Gay bars in Orlando?
It’s one world, and we either make it safe everywhere, or choose to make it unsafe everywhere.
As Christians, and I am one, we can work to make our world safe, not just our little buildings protected by our symbols. Until we do that, we are all at risk everywhere.
I cannot resist noting that the 2nd amendment provides no statement of a right to have ammunition. Have all the guns you want. We’ll keep ammunition in National Armories.
16
What's the point of this? All the things the writer mentions- the blood drives, the clinics, food banks, etc - are also things that non-religious people do as well on a regular basis. And saying that you're prompted to do these things because "Christ commands us to love our neighbors as ourselves" - well, I have news for you. Many of us give to and help others because we're good people, not because we're commanded to act by some theoretical being.
A church is a building no different than any other, and a small town is only as good as the people populating it. As is also the case in those "dangerous" big cities you seem to be denigrating. Of course things like this happen in small towns - you have just as many nutballs there as anywhere else. Your church won't protect you, nor will the "good deeds" that you perceive as only being part of a churchgoer's life. You're wrong on that; doing good things and going to church are hardly interdependent.
15
The Robert's court interpretation of the Second Amendment ignored and threw out over two hundred years of precedence. He lied to congress in his hearings saying he would honor precedence. It is and always has been about militias and not individual ownership. The numbness from these repeated acts is frightening and the response to just have more guns is truly horrifying. and then you have a Republican congressman shutting down a retired Colonel with two Afghan missions saying he has no expertise no making the comment that it is "insane" for private citizens to be able to buy high powered assault rifles, I for one do not feel more safe.
8
I guess the good pastor has forgotten that throughout history churches of one creed or another have been the most violent advocates and promoters of murder in the name of their religion.
As for God loving you, watching over you and in the end welcoming you home, I suspect the members of that crippled church believe none of that now and the idea of that God "welcomes us home" after having our life's journey cut short by senseless murder is not all too comforting.
11
Your opinion is genuinely sympathetic however you are mistaken about at least one fact. Most mass shootings do occur in small towns and cities. There are also more guns in small towns and small cities plus more violence. And I don’t think that there should be violence anywhere church or no church.
9
I was very moved by Pastor Curry's article. My thoughts and prayers are with the people of Wilson County, Texas. I hope that those people can channel their grief into serious consideration of ways to prevent these shootings.
Statistically, mass shootings happen far more often in states with weak gun control laws. We are not the only nation with mentally ill citizens, but we are the only first world nation that makes it easy for them to obtain military style weapons - and the number of Americans killed by guns per capita is far higher than any place else.
When I was younger, I remember the arguments against gun control on the basis that hunters were entitled to hunt to feed their families. Now, semi-automatic weapons appear to be sacrosanct. While we are thinking about and praying for the people in Sutherland Springs, Texas, can we and they learn something about guns and the necessity of gun control to prevent this from happening again and again and again?
41
It's hard to miss the cynicism of so many of the comments. . .
I hear Mr. Curry courageously speaking out of the raw and urgent and authentic agony of his own community that has just been ripped apart. All space is sacred, yes, not only that of ground inside the walls of our churches--but those grounds are, arguably, more tender and vulnerable simply because this is a place many of us go for sanctuary and encouragement and teaching how to engage the sometimes cruel harshness of the world outside at least once a week, and for many of these people, two or three times a week. It is where we are married, welcomed into a historical community of faith, taught ethics and loving behavior as children, and gather to celebrate the life of those who die before us. Pastor Curry didn't mention all houses of worship in all religions, all tender spaces we gather in large groups, but please acknowledge that his community just this week suffered the deaths of their children and elders and friends and family. Please, within the desire to make this stop everywhere, hold him and Sutherland Springs in gentleness, not harshness and cruelty of tone.
9
It's not longer the time for gentleness. That and prayer don't seem to work well here. We need strong and potent words to get to our legislators, and we need the religious community to join the fight. And, we have to start realizing the prayers, solemn moments, flags at half mast, are not solving a real and devastating problem. That the church was attacked, that a "sacred space" is vulnerable, can be equated with homes, schools, and streets, that are sacred and vulnerable. It's like the politicians saying that now is not the
time to politicize the shootings. Any time they happen is the time, and perhaps had the pastor talked about all the places violated, instead of the church, more sympathy would be coming his way. Perhaps, if he offered a solution, more sympathy would come his way. We're tired and sick, and sympathy is cheap. Let's get him and the other religious folk acting against what is happening here.
1
Dear Pastor, I also think shootings should not occur in places where people are enjoying a concert, biking and walking, going to elementary school, seeing a movie at a theater, and other places that people of faith might deem non-sacred. I also think mass shootings are not supposed to happen in big cities either. I'd like to add that churches and community organizations in big cities run food banks, daycare centers, sponsor blood drives and hold services on Thanksgiving and Good Friday too. The truth is, big cities are actually lots of smaller communities woven together. We love our neighbors, look out for each other, attend worship, and in large part, we do our best to make the world around us a better place. We host boy scout troops, kids in our neighborhoods have lemonade stands, and we support moms and dads new to parenting. We are equally offended, shocked, saddened, and horrified at the church shooting.
24
A better way of thinking is that a mass shooting shouldn’t happen at all anywhere to anyone of any race, religion, or ethnicity. We are all humans on this earth but if huge amounts of weapons are within easy reach of everyone in this country, these events will continue to occur. Because some of us are violent; some are on drugs; some are mentally ill; some have no judgment. We are not all peace-loving believers in nonviolence. Just look at the history of our world. People have killed each other since the beginning of time. When there is access to bigger and better weapons, people have used them. Including all faiths. In fact, people are killing each other every day in the name of their God, which may differ from others’ Gods. In fact my people, the Jews, were killed by your people, the Christians, for hundreds of years in the name of God and Jesus, a Jew, which has always struck me as the height of irony. So no killing of anyone anywhere is a better response. In fact, I think it is one of the Commandments, isn’t it? And it doesn’t mention that you shouldn’t kill anyone just in a sacred space. The earth is a sacred space for us all.
1
Pastor, in addition to your prayers, when are you going to start working for sensible gun controls in Texas and at the national level?
143
I don't know the Rev. Curry's personal view on gun control, but the United Methodist Church calls for its congregations to advocate at the local and national level for laws that prevent or reduce gun violence. (Find out more at http://www.umc.org/what-we-believe/gun-violence.) Some of those measures include:
• Universal background checks on all gun purchases
• Ratification of the Arms Trade Treaty
• Ensuring all guns are sold through licensed gun retailers
• Prohibiting all individuals convicted of violent crimes from purchasing a gun for a fixed time period
• Prohibiting all individuals under a restraining order due to threat of violence from purchasing a gun
• Prohibiting persons with serious mental illness, who pose a danger to themselves and their communities, from purchasing a gun
• Ensuring greater access to services for those suffering from mental illness
• Establishing a minimum age of 21 years for a gun purchase or possession
• Banning large-capacity ammunition magazines and weapons designed to fire multiple rounds each time the trigger is pulled
• Promoting new technologies to aid law-enforcement agencies to trace crime guns and promote public safety
2
I am deeply saddened by the loss. Just another days a few innocent lives are sacrificed? Inscrutable is America where people's outcries against gun violence fall on deaf ears in congress. Why wouldn't people do something like rushing out to the streets to express their emotions against the political lethargy? Street protests don't work? Too much nihilism numbs the American spirit that once inspired my country Korea and neighboring countries to fight against politics as usual.
20
I'm an imperfect believer but I do believe that prayer and worship are barren and useless unless they lead to action. I call on Rev. Curry and religious leaders of all faiths, as well as ALL people of faith, to step out in courage, to LIVE what you profess, and to advocate publicly for common sense gun control. I will do this: write to my representatives, but also to the leaders of my church, about the need to end this scourge. Thoughts and prayers are not and never will be enough. We must act. We must stand up to the idolatry of guns, perpetrated by the NRA under the guise of "freedom". If we pray and do nothing, we are hypocrites.
82
The 2nd Amendment has been misinterpreted and misrepresented for to long. No one needs any thing more then one hunting rifle and a shotgun. A country that allows innocent children to be slaughtered year after year will not survive. There should be a mass confiscation of weapons in this country that are not used in hunting. Prayer is not the answer as God has nothing to do with these occurrences. Blaming mental illness is just a distraction technique besides congress passed legislation allowing mental illness people to purchase firearms.
Our country has an illness which will eventually be our downfall.
56
the 2nd amendment has been perverted ----if the framers of the constitution could come back to life I am sure they would be stunned at the way this amendment is being interpreted in today's world and they would re-write it
to more reflect the way life is today. They were visionaries and brilliant.
4
You're correct, congress recently passed legislation allowing the mentally ill to purchase firearms. They did it so Trump could legally buy a gun.
I don't need "one hunting rifle and a shotgun," Snowball. Because I don't slaughter any innocent living being. Not a child, not a deer, not an antelope, not a pheasant, not a rabbit, not any creature on earth that has as much right to live it's life as you do.
Illness, indeed.
The Church is a place where people go to pray and find peace and your lovely story proves this is what the citizens of your county found. It is wonderful that the Christian faiths blend together so nicely and this is what we should aim for. The people unfortunately died doing something they loved. These people took their faith seriously and that was such a precious gift.
There is something missing in city living that is prevalent in a small town. The community feeling is so comforting and heartwarming. People were close and knew one another. No one mocked a person's religious beliefs and all religious persuasions were respected. How refreshing to have this occur in such a secular world. We should see more of this and promote it.
I pray for this Texas community and that your healing continues each and every day. You are all that makes America great and a perfect example of what is right with the world. You are a beacon of light and hope.
10
Small-town living is boring, suffocating, conformist and dull. It creates communities of true believers where people who are different are persecuted and reviled. Science and technology are not developed in small towns. Arts do not flourish in rural Texas. Even religious art is concentrated in great cities. Rome, Jerusalem and Mecca are centers of the world’s religions, not some nameless one-traffic-light American town. Smart, ambitious young people are fleeing rural America, and those who are left are poisoning themselves with opioids because they are bored and dispirited. My husband was born in rural Iowa and could not wait to escape to a big city. And “Christian faiths blend together so nicely”? Really? So what would you say to a Jew, a Muslim or an atheist?
1
I appreciate that your community can respond with love and support for the victims and responders. I am an atheist and that has no influence on how I perceive your position. The issue is allowing you and me to live without fear of being killed by a deranged gunman. I am a gun owner and avid competitive shooter but I don’t believe the NRA should hold such huge sway regarding the outcome of our societal safety policies. We don’t need “good guy with a gun” to solve this. We don’t need to pray for the victims. We need to act in concert to limit the access to all guns in a manner that provides a secure outcome for all of us. I am sick of this. I urge all of us to curtail the corrosive lobbying efforts of the NRA to limit the restrictions on assault weapons.
285
Thank you for this clear, truthful and commonsense Comment. I see that many readers agree w you. I hope that you continue to speak out and lead others to adopt sensible gun laws despite the over powerful NRA's objections.
3
How about restrictions on all weapons, not just assault weapons? Let's just get to work to have the vast majority of them out of private hands. I don't see that all of these either angry or crazy shooters are part of a militia, as defined by the second amendment. Time to disarm a nation except for sport. It's clear from the data that the more guns the more tragedy, despite that rare occasion where a "good guy with a gun" gets lucky. This is probably too much to ask for in the current climate, with a President who can't tell a fact from a lie, but perhaps we can start the work.
4
Thank you, Mr. Epstein.
Blessings on you and on all who are called to minister in this time of affliction.
13
Pastor Curry, I am sorry for the loss of life in Wilson County, and desecration of First Baptist Church. Unfortunately, mentally ill people and convicted criminals obtain guns far too easily, and sooth their troubled souls by slaughtering innocent people in return for 15 minutes of fame. No community is immune from such attacks. Please join me in supporting making guns and ammo less available for the mentally ill and criminals while making healthcare more accessible to those in need.
181
Consider the proposition that any private citizen who acquires a semiautomatic weapon should be suspected of being mentally ill.
59
Ronni - why are gun pushers like you stuck on mental illness as the cause? You would be the first person to NOT allow these murderers to put up a 'mental illness' defence in court.
This was an angry man. Anger is not a mental illness. And it can not be treated with medications.
The only solution here is to ban the firearms that allowed him to kill 26 and wound many more. No one needs a clip that holds so many bullets. Guns are for hunters, not killers. Until Americans wake up and read the 2nd amendment how it was intended, this will never stop.
You can blame psychiatrists, and the healthcare system. But the only way to stop this is gun control. This will never stop as long as you keep believing what you do.
1
Er, does anybody remember that one of the first of Trump's signings after getting into the Oval Office rescinded the regulation against selling guns to mentally ill people? Even people so profoundly cognitively dysfunctional that they needed to have a custodian appointed to manage their checking account.
Now, every time there is a mass shooting and the perpetrator's name is not Mohammed, Trump has two memes. First, he says it's too soon to "politicize" the incident by discussing gun violence (he can rely on the next shooting coming along so his "too soon to talk about Las Vegas" becomes his "too soon to talk about the First Baptist Church" with the assurance that it will continue to be "too soon" as the slaughter goes on). His second meme is to divide the issue into "guns" and "mental illness," as if this is some kind of binary either/or. Guns are absolved if you label the shooter mentally ill. It is interesting to note that Paddock was buying tactical body armor & guns over the internet while actually confined for a time in a mental health treatment facility. There are millions of unbalanced people, or people who may become unbalanced after a stressful period in their lives, who have no previous documented evidence of mental illness. Can every gun check really become an extended therapy course combined with a psychic who can see into the future? A perfectly normal appearing person can go off the rails if they find their spouse is cheating or filing for divorce.
People shouldn't die of violence ANYWHERE.
59
Sir, I wish you the best. Perhaps you can your parishioners can keep your faith in your God, but lose faith with the GOP. The only way WE can stop this carnage is to vote out the NRA lackeys. PERIOD.
Vote Democratic: PRO- LIFE for Born Children.
92
We can show our love for Christ by banning assault weapons, thus saving hundreds of lives in America, every year.
94
So it shouldn't happen in a church? I guess a first grade class in Connecticut is OK, then? How about a movie theater? Or a concert? I guess you think that being in a church gives you some kind of special grace or should give you some extra protection? Guess what? It doesn't.
165
If you are a Christian, it's hard enough to explain why your church even has a lightning rod, let alone some "sanctified" supernatural protection against the perils of the regular world.
In fact, churches, synagogues, & mosques seem especially attractive targets. In the 1930s, Catholics & Protestants were burning each others' churches over which of their two very different versions of the Ten Commandments was officially used in schools, as well as which of their different versions of the "Lord's Prayer" was recited. Have we all forgotten the Civil Rights era bombing of the church in Birmingham, AL in 1963 by White Supremacist KKK members, which killed 4 little girls ages 11 through 14? What about the white supremacist who shot up the Sikh temple in Wisconsin, killing 6 & wounding 4 others just because he was such a moron that he thought anybody wearing a turban must be a Muslim? What about Dylan Root?
Religion & theological disagreements have always been at the heart of much of the world's most grotesque violence. Have we forgotten that Christians spent 2 millennia massacring each other over minor theological differences, let alone the Crusades, the regular massacres of Jews, and the Roman & Spanish Inquisitions? Even up until a few years ago, Catholics & Protestants in Northern Ireland were slaughtering each other regularly, while the IRA was perpetrating terrorist bombings in London & other English cities.
2
I for one would rather be listening to a sermon by Steve Kerr, the Warriors basketball coach, who calls what is happening in our country as nothing short of "disgusting".
We all need to be warriors against this scourge on our nation's families, children and unborn babies in mothers' womb. It's a right to life issue.
There is no FREEDOM when we are afraid to go to concerts, festivals, malls, movie theaters, elementary schools, college campuses, health care clinics and places of worship.
Let us start preaching the message that we must severe the stranglehold the NRA and the greedy gun manufacturers have on our country. It is truly disgusting.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/early-lead/wp/2017/11/06/warriors-st...
72
The shooter was a member of your Wilson County community. Disturbed people like him can live with us anywhere. If you think that mass killings have not occurred before in small towns just ask the people in Barnsdal, Oklahoma. My guess would be that nearly everyone in your community owns or has access to a gun. You cannot predict if a member of your community will become mentally disturbed and harm or killl others with a gun or guns. Your prayer vigil may offer some comfort to your church members but it will not stop future gun violence. Your God will not save you from mass murderers anymore than he/she protected those in Sutherland. Tight gun control measures will. Want peace and safety, stop hoping and praying, work for gun controls.
102
As one who lives in the Midwest, my thoughts on the happening of 9/11 did not include thinking that New Yorkers who perished at the World Trade Center brought their deaths on themselves because they at least tacitly supported a U. S. government which had perhaps wronged Muslim Arabs. Nor did I think that when 8 people were run down last week in New York by an ISIS convert. I have been to New York City many times and love the city and its people.
But many of the comments below hold that because the men, women, children and babies so horrifically
murdered in church this past Sunday in Texas live in a state
where guns are more prevalent than, say, New York City, they brought their deaths upon themselves and karma was served. I read the same kind of twisted comments after the Las Vegas massacre.
And we wonder why there is a big city vs. small town divide?
But more than that, what has become of common sense and common decency; and, the rule of thinking before one opens one’s mouth. The offending comments I complain of here are as crass, vulgar and ignorant as any Trump has made.
9
Either you really do not understand these comments or do not want to and put a spin onto them which is not there. I did not find a comment which said that the slaughtered "brought their deaths upon themselves", which would be heartless as well as untrue. But many people are giving their opinion that political action to prevent the sale of assault weapons (the designation was not chosen without reason) would be more appropriate and effective than handwringing and praying. That is something alltogether different from what you are claiming comentators said.
10
The pastor tells us that things like this don’t happen in places like his. Here we are staring directly at America’s favorite myth. Alaska has more gun violence than New York City on a per capita basis - and it’s not even close. These things happen in these small towns and I am sorry to say - often. School shootings and mass shootings occur in smaller towns more often than cities, in small cities more often than large cities, and in so many words they tend to occur in precisely the places people seem to think they won’t. Why Roseburg OR and not Portland? Why Springfield OR and not Eugene? Why Columbine and not Denver? Why suburb more than city, exurb more than suburb and so on? Drugs, opioids, untreated mental illness, economic alienation, social isolation- the whole box of tricks is all there made notably worse by a basic lack of access health care of any kind, typically a shortage of mental health care, compounded by deep social and possibly religious norms that consider mental illness as a character shortcoming, a spiritual failing and not a disease. We’re mass shootings a phenomenon of inner cities, African Americans. poverty prone zip codes and school districts where 75% of the kids are on lunch subsidies, these pages would be filled with marital advice for single black moms, helpful motivation advice of those on public assistance etc. But our mass shooting problem is largely white, middle class and suburban/rural and the usual catalog of excuses has been proven absurd.
1
If tou don’t want to get shot in the USA, don’t leave your house. Install bullet proof glass. Lay low. Say nothIng, do nothing. Don’t go to church where you are a setting , praying target for disgruntled assault weapon owners. Don’t go to concerts, ballgames, movies. Order groceries from Amazon, but be very careful when you recycle. Or, you can call your representatives to do something to stop this.
72
Civilians should not be massacred wherever they are peaceably assemble be it a church, mosque, movie theater, school, concert, or meeting of atheists and free thinkers. Church-goers are only entitled to the same level of safety as everyone else is. Not because their space is "sacred" but because no one deserves to be slaughtered in rain of bullets.
73
Would you have the same views about churches if one was offering sanctuary to illegal aliens against ICE sweeps?
Leave Capitalism Alone... huh? What an odd question. I don't think churches offering sanctuary to illegal aliens against ICE sweeps should be riddled full of bullets either. Strange question.
3
I beg you, Pastor Curry, to find the courage to speak out against the brutal murder weapons that many people in your community carry. Gather with other pastors and priests and picket your congressional representatives, organize boycotts of gun stores, and preach that humanity and compassion must be valued more than guns in a civilized society. Make this YOUR march on Selma.
You will be hated for taking this stance because gun companies have targeted your people for years with sophisticated fear tactics. But you know that there is NO God, in any religion, who wants to see babies murdered. You have a moral and spiritual duty to lead your community away from these weapons of destruction.
65
"A pastor at a church near Sutherland Springs says violence should never happen in sacred community spaces"
But anywhere else is ok, yes?
No. The above is a nonsense argument.
40
Lord lift up the people of Texas so they will cease to harken to the voice of the NRA but know that those they have put above them in the state house, in Congress, and in the White House have colluded in the murder of their children. Let them learn that the Second Amendment does not license gun ownership neither is gun ownership a God-given right. And finally, Lord, teach them to cast out the hypocrites and Pharisees among them who preach peace and neighborly love but dare not raise their voices for gun control. Amen.
60
"The idea that such a thing would happen in a sacred space, a place where families are supposed to be safe, has angered many people."
The idea that such a thing would happen ANYWHERE angers me. Why do you single out "sacred" spaces? Are secular spaces less worthy of protection from such violence? Aren't families (and everyone else) supposed to be safe from obscene gun violence everywhere? Or do you privilege spaces where you believe your God is watching over you? Maybe you should ask your god why "he" allowed this to happen.
44
People of faith are delusional but that's our country and much of the world. They capitulate their responsibilities to an imaginary being when their fate is in their own hands. Pray if it makes you sleep better. But voting out Republicans and outlawing gun possession is what will keep you safe in your bed at night, not some god.
35
I find the religious response to mass shootings with prayers and vigils quite distressing. Nothing about a response to butchery should be a religious experience. It almost seems to some that the reason the evil occurs is to provoke the good response by the community.
14
This life exists so that each of us has their chance to get to know Deity.
All things that live will die (excepting one absolutely singular event) and whether that death is seemingly too early or late is, in the long run, immaterial and meaningless.
Yes, this sounds crude and cruel IF your view of this life is that there is no second chapter. You were expected, in the long run, to have figured out the eternity question by the time you were old enough to begin wanting to date.
So we can see these seeming illogical deaths as simply an unexpectedly early exit ramp or a flight that was set up WAY earlier than mankind would have planned.
But by adulthood, you have to know that mankind's plans are usually worthless. There ARE plans, however, that are perfectly well-thought-out and unchangeable. We are given all the info we need to make our own decisions regarding the Messiah.
My deepest condolences for the irrational pain and suffering inflicted, it's just so sad for these people. I find a preacher sales pitching the value of the church at a time like this unseemly. He can however be set back on his heels by reasoning almost 2500 years old:
"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?" - Epicurus, philosopher (c. 341-270 BCE)
27
The belief that "Things like this don’t happen in small towns like ours." is a myth.
It is furthered by those who would seek to divide us by implying that cities are scary places full of violence, and that small town life somehow is better.
People build community where ever they live. Its about the people not the place.
18
Traditionally churches have always been considered to be sacred spaces of refuge. It was just a social custom that everyone in a community respected, even by those who do not respect a religion or attend a church. Brutal dictators , drug lords and mafia bosses all respected the church, but now a church is just an assembly of large numbers of people and that is why they are targeted.
4
Sounds nice but is completely untrue: dictators like Stalin, Hitler, Pinochet, Castro or the Argentinian junta did not respect "sanctuaries" or men and women of God but killed them, sometimes right in their churches.
Duh. Maybe I should have been specifically specific. The truth is that very few people today respect any notion of a church as being a sanctuary or a place of God, the examples of history you mention show that, but vestiges of the tradition remain. The assembly spaces in Unitarian churches are still referred to as the 'sanctuary', but not the foyer, kitchen or the classrooms. Church buildings are merely edifices and are just as susceptible to bombs as any, but once upon a time, maybe the middle ages, they were solidly built and were a refuge.
I also live in a small town. Twice yearly all the different churches( Catholic, Baptist, Methodist, Lutheran, etc.) share in a common worship service, all in one building. This is a way of recognizing that there really is only one God. one Jesus Christ, one Holy Spirit and one Church and the Church is not any particular building . It is the body of Christian believers.
8
One Holy Spirit found in the "body of Christian believers'? What about Muslims and Jews who also believe in one God? Where are they in your calculus? And others who also believe in one God? Christians may believe fervently in their God, but they don't seem to get that their God is as imaginary to others as it is real to them. And that's not gonna change unless this God somehow shows itself in such a way as to erase all doubt, everywhere.
10
@Syliva: The way God shows himself is from within not without. But, just like Jonah, most of us are afraid of acting on a divine impulse because we experience it as something foreign to us, when in reality that impulse is from the deepest truth of who we are. If people learned to recognize, trust, and act on that universal divine impulse, the world would change in a flash.
1
He who does not forbid what he is able to prevent, is deemed to assent. "Qui tacet consennire videtur, ubi tractatur de ejus commodo."
In a democracy, every citizen is responsible.
Has Pastor Curry remained silent regarding the need for strict gun control? The senators and congressmen that his fellow Christians have elected have been silent and taking contributions from the NRA.
23
Dear Reverend Curry, your eloquent tapestry of the Body of Christ is much appreciated during this dark chapter of American history. Our hearts are restless until they rest in thee O Lord. Sadly you and those in rural America are no longer immune to the evils of our society. The Scriptures (Hebrew and New)remind us that 'Vengeance is mine saith the Lord'. As long as we live in a society where humanity has the power to be so filled with vengeance and can execute such vengeance with readily available lethal force, the Body of Christ in America will continue to suffer needlessly.
As a practicing Catholic I am appalled by anyone who calls themselves pro-life, but only condemns abortion. The silence by so many in the United States when it comes to assault rifle execution of the innocents has left me questioning not only my faith in this Holy Trinity that is supposed to be so loving, but also the hypocrisy of a nation, and its leaders, who pride themselves of our overt religiosity. As liturgical Christians conclude another church year, it is worth reading from Luke 21:36 and pray that we can escape the tribulations that are coming to pass even in the remotest parts of Texas.
14
I am a non believer but this beautiful, heartfelt letter touched me.
5
All well and good, Pastor Curry, but will you use your pulpit to preach for gun control? Will you ask your parishioners to call their representatives and urge them to vote for universal background checks?
Texas, especially rural Texas, has a high rate of gun ownership and a high rate of gun violence. (California, in contrast, is low on both counts.) How about doing something to prevent the next mass shooting, so we won't need to send our "thoughts and prayers" to more grieving families.
23
Respectfully -- how is there no mention of guns in this piece? How does public policy fit in to this world view? I ask this not in a hostile way but as someone who volunteered full time in poverty stricken neighborhoods after college. You cannot separate God from our bodies, our lives, our choices, our communities' policies, our society's choices. God is not an abstraction. Neither is death by a military weapon an abstraction.
16
"The idea that such a thing would happen in a sacred space, a place where families are supposed to be safe, has angered many people."
And where, pray tell Pastor Curry, should such a thing occur and NOT anger ALL people?
22
"It’s important to know that in Wilson County in Texas, site of the horrific shooting that killed 26 people at the First Baptist Church on Sunday, life revolves around the schools and the churches. "
But it also revolves around guns in Texas and that is a problem. Violence doesn't restrict itself to outside the church, the school, or any other sacred place. In fact the worst things have been done in place of worship and in schools. But GOP politicians have ignored the outcry for stronger gun regulations on the grounds that we need good people with guns stopping bad people with guns. The need to limit the types of guns people were allowed to own was ignored after 26 people, most of the first graders, were murdered in Newtown CT. It was ignored after a shooting in a movie theater, one in a disco or nightclub in Florida.
The La Vernia, Texas community has, without their consent, become a member of the growing number of cities and villages that have been subject to a massacre by someone wielding firearms. And again it was something that needn't have occurred. But it will continue to occur until Americans decide that public safety is more important than slavish devotion to an amendment that is being deliberately misinterpreted to allow anyone who wants to, to own a gun which makes killing a human being too easy.
39
"Churches are places where the spirit of God is felt, where the presence of God is very real, "
True, then you need security guards at every church standing with their guns e and checking all worshipers for firearms, churches will look more like airports.
That is very sad. If that happens, church attendance will drop even further.
12
Armed guards at churches is the NRA's dream come true.
15
Or openly packing (or concealed). Sadly, it's the same thing.
4
“The Lord helps those who help themselves,” said my grandmother on many occasions. Sane gun control laws might have spared the grievously traumatized and wounded people of Wilson county their pain. Was this tragedy a wake-up call to rural America that the Lord expects people to find ways to help themselves than just going to church?
30
It was the little signs over the years that told me something terrible was taking hold in the countryside.
We have a getaway in the mountains. First were the yard signs encouraging people to buy guns because if Obama got elected, he was going to take them away. Then two gun stores opened with target shooting galleries out back. And their always packed on the weekend. Now the local hardware store expanded for the sole purpose of adding a large gun section. And it's hard to find a deer rifle there. All glock pistols and semi-automatic rifles.
Sorry what happened in a church of God in Texas. But Charleston' s Baptist church suffered, and what about all those children at Sandy Hook? And Las Vegas, and....
Question Mr. Curry, do you a gun or guns for something else besides hunting?
We're all sick and tired of the carnage taking place daily in this country. And the culprit is far to many guns coupled with the fear mongering of right wing news and websites.
108
I hope that we can come together as a country, grieve for the victims of this massacre, and take concrete steps to prevent these senseless killings in the future. Gun violence shouldn't happen anywhere, be it a church or a gas station. While a solution might seem evasive, one thing is certain: continuing a path of non-action will not prevent future massacres. The current policy of unfettered gun access is a failure, it's time to try something else. Faith and prayer can soothe the soul, but they will not reduce gun violence. England, Japan, Canada, France, Australia, and a host of other countries have reduced gun violence through policy measures. Policy, not prayer, is the proper solution to this problem.
22
I wish that faith based communities would band together to affect public policy and limit access to assault type weapons. Most things I have read about gun owners seem to reflect a fact that people would like to be able to have guns but don’t need semi-automatic weapons for any reason. If more people on all sides of the political spectrum would band together for rational gun control then mass murders could be prevented, especially faith based communities which are not protected from irrational violence by God or man.
19
The fact a firearm is semi-automatic is not a characteristic that makes it more lethal than other firearms. Semi-automatic firearms (e.g., the venerable Browning A5 hunting shotgun, the M1 Garland battle rifle of
WWII, the 1911 Colt .45 pistol) have been around for over 100 years.
The difference is that the firearms referenced above hold at most 8 rounds, whereas the ammunition magazines used to feed the AR-15 and AK-47 rifles hold 30 or more rounds. Where the magazine for the government-issue 1911 Colt .45 pistol held but 7 or 8 rounds, most of today’s semi-auto pistols hold a minimum of 15 rounds.
Simply put, it isn’t the semi-automatic design but rather the ammunition magazines which make the guns so lethal in terms of the capacity to wound and kill large numbers of people in a short period of time. And for every magazine-fed, semi-auto pistol and rifle which has been sold there must be at least 5 magazines in private hands. That is a conservative estimate.
4
The premise of this piece that "sacred" spaces and religious communities are more deserving of safety than other, presumably secular, spaces is offensive. So too is the presumption that small towns should somehow be uniquely immune from violence, which seemingly belongs in the big city, according to the author.
107
"Justice for All," I think you misunderstand the writer's point, which even this atheist gets. It is that these communities have themselves MADE the caring, responsive places they value. Nobody is more or less deserving, and the "supposition" to be safe is a hope, a wish, a longing that these people supported with their actions. The notion of sanctuary is a universal longing, and a program that tries to realize this longing, whether in a church or in a more public space should be respected.
17
With all due respect, things like this do, and did, happen in small intimate communities, and they will happen again. That's how terrorism works. The Emanuel AME Church in South Carolina was home to a small, intimate community of people who felt safer there than anywhere else on earth, until Dylan Roof walked in with an automatic weapon. Just a couple of weeks ago, in retaliation for that, innocent churchgoers were terrorized in Tennessee. Without naming them all, in fact there have been 150 church shootings in the US since 2006. The communities of faith are about to get a big political voice once their president succeeds in repealing the Johnson Amendment (it's part of the proposed tax bill!), and I hope you all can use it to come together and determine whether you should continue fighting for unfettered gun rights. With all due respect.
24
In July 2008 a disgruntled Jim David Adkisson attacked a Unitarian church in Knoxville Tennessee, killing two and wounding seven. It was during a youth performance and the shooter wanted to kill as many liberals as possible. He also had served in the military as a private. A not so curious coincidence that seems to fail to interest people searching for a cause of these irrational, evil mass murders.
That incident raised an alarm in Unitarian churches throughout the country. Even the hyper liberal Unitarians discussed appointing people in the congregation to carry weapons in case someone else tried a similar act, at least they did in my parent's church in Louisiana.
3
"The idea that such a thing would happen in a sacred space, a place where families are supposed to be safe, has angered many people."
Why aren't families supposed to be safe at shopping malls? Or at concerts? Or at movie theatres? Or at schools? Why aren't those people angered about killings in a church also angered about killings at other places?
What smug, self-righteous arrogance. Hopefully the people angered by this church gun massacre will be moved by that anger to vote for politicians who will work to pass gun control laws that will make the chances of this type of slaughter happening anywhere to anyone less likely.
55
I don't think we should hold our breathe that they will vote for gun control. It doesn't matter to them how much we all cry about these terrorist events. Their guns are more important than living. Their real god is guns.
10
Pastor Curry,
I am not Christian but I read your warmth in your text. I'm glad when people find such support in their faith, as they must surely need it right now over there. Keep leading, that's a good thing. But do also remember that not enough is done about mental illness, drug abuse, family violence, the abuse of children who shouldn't have been brought into the world and family they are in, and the worship of pure manly power (as exhibited in a weapon that kills many) that leads men (never women) to mass slaughter. This is where you really need to lead. Deal with anger, hatred, division, loss of humanity, etc. in stronger ways and then I will have the utmost respect for Christian religious leaders. Absent that, your words are simply not enough to overcome the hatred, anger, etc. we witness in bloody bodies weekly. Pray for this non-believer and then go out and help solve the problems, don't just mutter words at us.
19
Thoughts & Prayers are not enough.
The Lord helps those who helps themselves.
Call your senators & congressmen. Demand strict gun control law. Remind them that silence is consent.
18
A shooting like this should not happen anywhere. Period. To imagine that a psycho with access to an AR-15 should be mindful of houses of worship is nonsense. There is zero reason people attending service should be more protected than people attending a concert. Churchgoers are no more — or less — human than anyone else. It makes no difference if this happens in downtown Vegas or rural Texas. We should be equally shocked by both.
But we're not. Because this is normal now. Because our so-called leaders say it's just a mental-health problem. Funny how mental illness doesn't lead to incessant mass shootings in the UK, Japan, Canada, Australia, France, China, or Germany, isn't it? Also — and tragically — funny that the man who says it's about mental health slashes mental-health treatment from the budget, depriving everyone, including combat vets, of help.
76
Mental illness also doesn’t seem to be driving women - who suffer mental illness at similar rates as men - to pick up guns and start slaughtering people. It is utterly baffling to me how this easily observable reality goes overlooked in all the screaming about mental health and not guns.
1
So, a lot of folks are offering thoughts and prayers for the victims. Isn't it ironic that the victims were praying went the shooting happened? Where's God when you need him? And why does he only show up after the massacre?
23
I am pretty sure that Christ is not commanding believers to carrying assault rifles. Nor do I expect he would be pleased with the number of open and concealed carry.
22
Well, the Evangelicals say that their God approves the use of nuclear weapons, and closed borders. They are not Christians are they?
1
Mr. Curry,
Thank you for taking the time to get a message of faith-based love out to us all. My prayers are going out to you and your people. God blesses us all in different ways. We are God's hands here on earth and it gladdens my heart to read your message of love during what must be a very sorrowful time. God Bless.
6
My deepest condolences for the lost life and the emotional scarring from Sunday's killings.
The false security that such things don't happen in places like this, however, was already demonstrably wrong. Small towns like Roseburg, OR and Newtown, CT have suffered mass shootings. Killers are not bound by zip codes.
The contention that a Church is a specially protected place is also not true. Houses of worship have endured acts of violence. And it is all too clear that religious belief, wherever expressed, is not a protection from evil people.
19
Pity that other comments condescend to people of faith.
However, Mr. Curry, it falls to community leaders of faith such as yourself to begin to speak hard truths to your congregations about the scourge of gun violence in this country, and to begin to peel away at the irrational, fetishistic, and nearly fanatical devotion to the unfettered, unregulated ownership and deployment of guns that many of your congregations all across this country adhere to.
YOU--more than any of us so-called coastal elites, Democrats, et al--YOU have the power to begin to change these hearts and minds. If your congregations are as devout and responsive to the spirit of the lord through you and your fellow pastors as I believe you are, then you can begin to be the change that will help insure that your houses of worship remain whole and peaceful.
Also, for the record, churches have been the target of violence before Sutherland Springs. Mostly, usually, black churches. Let's not act as if this is the first time a church has been desecrated by the madness of murderous, angry men.
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I don't condescend to people of faith though I believe them to be irrational. As an atheist, I don't care if you a person who believes in the ritual cannibalism of the Catholic Church, or worships by stripping naked every new moon, painting yourself blue, standing on your head, clicking your heals, and intoning, "I wish I were in Kansas." I do care that Christians (while claiming they are the persecuted group) are, in fact, the group that claims (and gets) with the greatest number of special considerations. The next time I see a minister or priest of a tax-exempt church call the fire department that YOUR & MY taxes (but not the church's) have paid for, I'm tempted to see them be consistent, kneel down & pray for rain instead of calling a service they are exempt from supporting.
It is not condescension to point out the inherent self-contradictory elements of people who substitute faith for reason. After all, most Christians, when polled, say (as GHW Bush asserted) that no atheist should be allowed to become President. Faith is the enemy of Reason.
As Gandhi remarked, ""I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ. The materialism of affluent Christian countries appears to contradict the claims of Jesus Christ that says it's not possible to worship both Mammon and God at the same time."
Today's Christians want both the Crown of Thorns & the 30 silver coins. They all want to go to Heaven, but nobody want's to die to get there.
I gave it my best try, but when I hit "where manners are expected and vulgarity is shunned", I had to give it up.
I'm sorry, but not even on this can I give you a pass, to pretend that these two churches do not fully support Trump, the most vulgar person to ever occupy the Oval Office.
Moreover, he has already spoken, aligning himself with the NRA. Once again there will be no Republican support for ANY form of gun supervision.
Churches in this country are no longer simple places of worship.
They are political places, hungering mightily to get that Johnson Amendment thrown out.
I don't believe for a moment , Mr. Curry, that you will miss my support.
You'll just have to get along with the funding for playgrounds, politicizing from the pulpit, shunning the ERA and loving the NRA and having the support of the foulest misogynist in this country.
"... shunning vulgarity...", indeed....
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These mass killings are horrendous no matter where they happen to take place! In a gay night club, in a shopping mall, on a bike path, at a music concert - it is absolutely just as bad in every single case! I hope that all churches and mosques and synagogues around the country will ask their congregations to pray for gun owners to give up their handguns and assault rifles. I hope they write to their elected representatives and insist that they implement much, much tougher gun control laws. Otherwise, this senseless scene will just play over and over again in this country. Other countries have fixed this problem. It is only the lack of political will that keeps us from doing the same here.
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Not sure the point of this, or what it's trying to say. If folks want to be a member of a church, fine. But to imply that 'places of worship' should be any more 'sacred' or free of violence, than locations that are not places of worship, or that are not comprised of god-fearing people, is wrong.
Also, there are plenty of good people in our neighborhoods, who are not necessarily religious. And conversely, there are many people who are less than kind, who hide behind their pious religious associations.
No one needs a religion to understand what it means to be 'good', or to want to be kind to others. Most humans are inherently good, religion or no.
Instead of prayers, how about some passion...some anger...for these needless deaths? How about some real action to take logical steps towards Reducing the Frequency and Severity of Mass Murders in the Great US of A? Prayers might make you all feel better, but I can assure you, they will not prevent next week's carnage, or the week's after that.
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Pastor Curry, this is a moving piece, and I was in church on Sunday morniing too. But your observations also worry me. Is it ok for violence to occur in places other than a church? Last week a gunman fired into a Walmart in a Denver suburb. Is that a better place for violence? I live in a city and so do my children. Is violence ok in a city? Until we see that this is a problem for all of us, we will never come to terms with the gun violence that is so American.
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Don’t forget the little children who were murdered in their school in Newton, Conn. Shouldn’t a school be a sacred safe space for our children.
I’m very sorry for the people who lost family members and for the community- but the problem is guns! And until this Pastor acknowledges this and works to make at least his own Church, a gun-free zone, there will be more tragedies.
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How can the God that manages miracles and is lauded every time something wonderful happens, not be held accountable when horror strikes those professing belief in him in a church? You simply cannot have it both ways. Either he is in control of all or in control of nothing. It is clearly the latter since God is only a metaphor for the earliest energy that produced the universe we know today. Do good. Meet others there. That is enough.
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Here's something Christian that churches could unite on to make life better, more productive, and more peaceful for Americans -- work towards weaning us of our addiction to firearms.
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Hosting clinics and blood drives, feeding the poor...who can argue that those aren't good things? It's nice, too, to see people of various denominations coming together to do good works. But for every example of good Christian behavior cited here, we can find examples of churches that choose to devote their resources to threatening damnation (and not just that: trying to legislate against) those who don't believe in God (or their God), or simply diverge from their particular interpretations of what it means to be Christian. Yes, it's terrible that people were gunned down in church, but is it any less terrible than what happened to the children of Sandy Hook? All kinds of people go to all kinds of churches, and for that reason they're not immune to humans' worst deeds.
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Why are churches more sacred than street corners or river banks? This notion is quite puzzling to me. I'm all for freedom of religion but this idea that it is more unacceptable to shoot people in a church than a park bench is as foreign to me as the idea that more people packing more guns will keep you safer.
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Churches are the center of life in small communities, that is the nice part.
But even little communities can't escape the nations gun culture. American people are like other people, but we have more guns than any other nation. We tolerate the bloodbaths and buy more guns. The nations gun lobby makes it possible. It is tilling the markets to sell more and more guns. The NRA used to serve hunters now they advertise military type weapons and finance a very powerful lobby. They tell us against all the logic in the world that more guns reduce gun violence while we experience on a daily basis day in and day out that more guns lead to more gun killings.
The gun lobby keeps telling us that the constitution does not allow any kind of regulation of guns. It can't be changed, is their mantra. The amendment is a change and it does not say what they claim it says.
The gun lobby is manipulating people, with guns they are macho and wimps without. It is all about profit, for-profit the nation tolerates the massacre of her children, Americans killing Americans. No terrorists needed, we do it to ourselves.
Without the gun lobby, common sense would prevail. The gun lobby makes all the difference.
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I am not religious but I have respect for any moral system that preaches - and practices - loving and helping others. However, wouldn't it be constructive and inspiring if believers and pastors aimed for solutions that help their community and parish get there? Simply asking that churches be safe havens isn't a solution. You need to set an example by getting rid of guns in your community, your town, your district and eventually, your state. There is simply no other way to ensure safety from guns but to get rid of them. None of the arguments against this are tenable. Knives do kill people - but not as many or as efficiently as an automatic rifle. Our politicians and presidents are not doing anything nor does it appear they ever will. It's up to us who believe that things need to change to start making a change at the grassroots level. Start small. Show that it makes a difference and others will follow. How many more kids/adults/families devastated is it going to take? Are we completely numb to these horrors?
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"The idea that such a thing would happen in a sacred space, a place where families are supposed to be safe, has angered many people. Churches are places where the spirit of God is felt, where the presence of God is very real, where manners are expected and vulgarity is shunned. The church is where we, with all our faults and failures, come into the presence of the divine to find grace, to find peace, to rest in the arms of the Lord. The church is a sanctuary in the literal sense of the word, set apart, safe, protecting. All this was shattered. Things like this don’t happen in small towns like ours. Those who moved to the country to protect their family from the perceived dangers of the city were especially shaken." Yes, Pastor, things like this happen in small towns, suburbs, and big cities. Churches are no more sacred than a mosque, a synagogue, elementary and high schools, going to a public place like a shopping mall, a movie theater, a post office, a workplace, and so on. We live in a gun saturated culture where a lot of people pretend to believe in Jesus but refuse to follow His tenets - love thy neighbor as you would love yourself, compassion for all, be sincere and not a hypocrite, love your enemies - do not hate and instead, reconcile, and follow the 10 Commandments, especially thou shalt not bear false witness, thou shalt not kill, thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's anything or anyone, and thou shalt not steal. I don't see many Christians practicing it.
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I wish my Roman Catholic church had been more forgiving of my human condition, which has little, or nothing, to do with the First Baptist Church in Sutherland Springs.
Pre existing conditions include the NRA, Congress, and God.
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A very touching and moving article that attests to what Christ has always called us to do. In the face of adversity, in the face of hatred, we turn and face darkness with unity and a love for our neighbor.
“Darkness cannot drive out darkness: only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate: only love can do that.”
-Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.
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So who am I suppposed to be loving here? The guy with the gun? Why? How will my loving or not loving a murderer undo the murders or, of more pressing concern, prevent future murders? Your invoking MLK here should indicate that, like King, you support a movement of broad civil disobedience against a wholly legal—and wholly immoral—administration of violence and dehumanization perpetuated by the State. In other words: to take ACTION up to and including breaking the law of the oppressor state. Are you on board with the action part, or just the “love” part?
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So where, pastor, is the most appropriate place for a mass murder?? I can't think of any place that I think is appropriate. We should all feel safe, and believe me, city people have as much right to be safe and feel safe as small town folks. We all grieve for the poor people who were murdered in that church, but we grieve also for the crowds in Las Vegas, and the drive-by gang murder victims all over the country, and the victims of family violence, and . . . .
Many of the idyllic small town residents you describe, especially in my home state of Texas, are also some of the staunchest backers of the Republican Party, Trump, and the NRA. I'm sick that this happened, but people living in these small communities have to understand that you can't just buy more of your own weapons and move out in the the country to feel "safe." All of us need to get a grip on the cancer of automatic weapons and weapon enhancements and high volume ammunition clips and magazines. No one needs a semi-automatic weapon or a 30 or 50 round clip or magazine. Let's honor these innocent victims by voting to end access to weapons of mass destruction.
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Dear Pastor,
Does it really make sense to you to think that you can separate life inside the church from life outside the church? You live in possibly the most pro-gun state in the country. See this article in today's NY Times: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/06/us/texas-guns-church-shooting.html?em...
You know, there is this saying, What Would Jesus Do? Do you really think that He would condone the violent culture that your church is not just surrounded by, but actually made up of? How would Jesus feel about the Governor's idea of having more churchgoers bring concealed weapons to Sunday services? Does any of this really make sense to you, as a religious person? If not, then it is incumbent on you to do something about it. Take a stand. Advocate for sensible gun restrictions. Practice what you preach.
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The good reverend says: "The idea that such a thing would happen in a sacred space, a place where families are supposed to be safe, has angered many people. Churches are places where the spirit of God is felt, where the presence of God is very real, where manners are expected and vulgarity is shunned."
Oh, vacuous sir, the idea that such a thing. - mass and single shootings - would happen anywhere these days is abhorrent to the human spirit. No prayers, please, for the loved ones who lost. Protests galore, please, to senators and representatives, state and federal, and to that horrific monolith, the NRA, to bring to a close this rapidly growing gun culture. Read the Bible, Sir. Go to your pulpit this coming Sunday and invite all gun owners to turn their fire-sticks into instruments for peace. Start a petition to bring about gun control. Do unto the least of these.....
28
The concept of The Church as a sanctuary in the literal sense of the word was shattered by the Trump/ICE administration with cooperation from the Evangelical Right organized religion. I guess God works in mysterious ways.
14
Sadly when it comes to gun violence there are no safe spaces in our gun toting, 2nd amendment loving country. I'm sure the Sikh temple in Wisconsin and the Emmanuel African Methodist Episcopal Church in Charleston felt the same sense of loss and violation that your community is currently experiencing. For now Americans have accepted that we can be killed anytime, anywhere and no one is going to do anything to stop the carnage. I'm sorry for your loss but I'm sick of prayers instead of action.
17
Pastor, you need to do something. Prayers won't keep the congregations safe from gun violence. Everyone in the US is a target for a white terrorist. I grew up Catholic and the priest impressed on me the need for action and I was always grateful for that view. If everyone in the church had had a gun, you still would have been surprised and then it would been a gun fight perhaps killing more in the church.
In Oakland, a Baptist church has installed impediments for a gunman to not be able to walk in. You at least need to do that and I am sure that church would be happy to advise you. But, for God's sake the list of killed included a pregnant women who will never meet her child. You have to do more, and the more is not more guns. Make you town safe and others towns. As the Italian stated in this list, we are a becoming a shooting range. Don't let this continue.
18
"Churches are places where the spirit of God is felt, where the presence of God is very real, where manners are expected and vulgarity is shunned."
There are many places where the above would apply - in the classroom (Sandy Hook); listening to joyous music (Las Vegas concert) or just any place where a small child might be in the arms of a loved one.) All these places are places of "sanctuary".
Remember the search for "weapons of mass destruction"? Perhaps you should have looked a bit closer to home.
25
"The idea that such a thing would happen in a sacred space, a place where families are supposed to be safe, has angered many people."
THAT'S what makes you angry??? It really shouldn't happen ANYWHERE. Were you angry when little tiny kids were shot up in their classrooms? Were you angry when Dylan Roof shot up the church in Charleston?
It shouldn't happen in a Kindergarten classroom. It shouldn't happen in a movie theater. It shouldn't happen at the mall. It shouldn't happen in a club. It doesn't matter where the people are. People are people and they shouldn't be shot anywhere.
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You took the words out of my mouth. Thank you for posting.
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Amen Sister !!
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"It shouldn't happen in a Kindergarten classroom. It shouldn't happen in a movie theater. It shouldn't happen at the mall. It shouldn't happen in a club."
With all due respect (and I agree with you wholeheartedly) your comment evoked strong memories of "Green Eggs and Ham".
I am so sorry to see the people of Wilson County Texas suffer through the aftermath of the attack on the church in Sutherland Springs.
But will any level of carnage make the people of Texas cease worshipping the AR-15?
I doubt it.
The failure to read the entire second amendment, especially 'well regulated militia', dooms Texans to many preventable mass killings in the years ahead.
They do indeed worship 'Guns, God and Guts'.
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Is a church in Wilson County also a place that welcomes the poor and needy with brown skin from Spanish-speaking countries? Does a church in Wilson County welcome the black people openly fighting systemic oppression? Does a church in Wilson County welcome those who love and build families with spouses of the same gender? That's the thing with religious institutions; they sound great and safe and loving when the lives of their own communities are at risk, and then stay silent the rest of the time, conveniently forgetting that when Jesus instructed us to love our neighbors, he did not just mean the white ones who live literally next door and believe in Christ. He did not just mean take out the Bible and quote it passionately when you've been gunned down by one of your own.
And he also did not mean that we should sit around talking love and blood donations and compassionate meal preparation when there are concrete ways to prevent more children from being torn to pieces in God's house, or anywhere else.
25
Pastor, there are clergy and congregants in other countries who don't have to endure what you poor folks are, and the simple reason is that they do not have a culture that countenances broad gun ownership. The correlation with violence and death is beyond refutation. Saving lives as well as saving souls must be your business, must it not?
28
The idea that massacres happen anywhere should anger everyone, and the availability of assault rifles with large clip magazines is the reason so many perished. Trump’s speech in Japan was sadly ironic because a Japanese assassin may have assaulted these poor people with a knife, handgun, or rifle and killed far less. The Supreme Court ruled a "well-regulated militia" is meaningless, overturning two centuries of judicial precedent, so we're stuck until people stop drinking the NRA moonshine. We should follow the Swiss or Israeli practice of letting honorably discharged vets keep their assault weapons. Everyone else can own pistols and rifles for hunting and protection.
4
With all due respect and sympathy to the pastor who wrote this article, mass killings are no less horrific if they occur at a rock concert, a soccer game, a LGBT night club, or a crowded pedestrian area. They are no less horrific if the victims believe in one god, many gods, or no god at all. All loss of life due to violence is equally tragic whether it occurs in a "sacred" place such as a church or in an inner-city ghetto.
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Pastor Curry believes in "sacred space".
America believes in guns.
22
Thank you, Pastor.
It was soothing to read this after a long, hard day.
Peace to you and your community.
12
It seems that Americans are determined to turn the whole country into a shooting range with its citizens as the targets. Concerts, schools, churches, you name the place and you're all at risk (whether you're armed or not!).
But don't you dare question the sanctity of that good old 2nd Amendment!
179
The audacity the gun lobby displays distorting the meaning of the 2nd amendment is simply incredible. And they get away with it.
19
Yes. It is the Second Amendment that is "sacred" in this country, nothing else.
17
An exquisite and moving portrait of small town life in a community where people of different faiths put aside their differences to put their collective good first.
As long as they are taking care of each other with joint prayers, 4-H, blood drives, care for elders and so on, they might want to help in another way: come together to renounce our approval for military-style assault weapons. It is true a locally-owned firearm, used in the spirit of defense, helped to subdue the killer. But no reasonable person would prevent that. Indeed, there's a firearm in my pickup right now.
It is these fetishist would-be Rambo weapons, illegal until 2004, that are responsible for many recent outrages. The people of Wilson County have a great deal of credibility right now. Rural Texans can keep their guns and their traditions, they might say, while standing together against the slaughter of innocents in this easily preventable way.
I cannot imagine a more fitting memorial for those we have lost or a more profound blessing upon their loved ones.
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The Texas shooting is once again an unbearable moment we as Americans need to recognize. I think there is no need to swing politics into this assassination, although I do agree with what you say about how these crazy weapons some can get their hands on is just wrong. It seems as if we are almost sitting ducks against these types of firearms. It is unnecessary to try and create sudden change, and I again agree with you that the best thing we can do now is recognize those lost in this attack.
I wish the best for those involved the Texas shooting, and other recent attacks as well. Prayers are sent to everyone involved, all throughout the world.
2
Do you have tutoring for kids who need help? Vaccination and contraception at the clinic? Do you accept LFBTQ community members? Would my non-christian family earn the same respect and protection? How about Atheists? So sorry for sounding angry, but we urban people think we're always unsafe in your neck of the woods. We think you hate us. We are therefore unsurprised that hate came to you. You all vote as if you think guns in every hand are fine. Please, stop to question more. Why do you think you're safer in a small town? After Mother AME why would a church be safe? What have you done to make a safer country? What will you do now?
2
Doesn't look like people of "different faiths." Looks like different varieties of Christians. He didn't mention Jews, Buddhists, Hindus, etc.
1
I'd have a lot more respect and sympathy for religious believers if they could produce even a speck of testable evidence to distinguish their convictions from delusions.
But they cannot.
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Think, for a minute, about all the testable evidence in science that was disproved by yet later testable evidence. Ordinary people know this primarily from all the medical research on diets and other lifestyle choices. E.g., Don't eat eggs. Err, well, eggs don't appear to be a culprit after all. If you have a stomach ulcer, it's likely your nerves to blame, and you should drink milk as it "coats" the stomach. Err, there's a bacterium that causes most stomach ulcers. Forget milk. Post-menopausal women should take estrogen. Err, perhaps you should not take estrogen if you're trying to avoid cancer. And so on ad infinitum.
I've lived long enough to see so many of these theories come and go, displaced by new ones, which will undoubtedly be replaced by yet newer ones, and so on. I write this not to ridicule the scientific method. Rather, I'm pointing to something more basic: Science is ultimately based on a faith that all things are scientifically explicable and that if one thing turns out to be the wrong theory, you can still use the same tools to find the right theory. A scientist never questions the basic framework. A competent scientist is a true believer.
A religious believer is quite similar. Like a scientist, he or she questions the particulars but not the underpinnings. As Saint Augustine said, To the believer, everything is evidence. To the nonbeliever, nothing is.
3
If Richard Rorty is right that truth is what works, I guess one bit of "testable evidence" would be the fact that these believers rushed meals to the grieving and emergency workers, helped fund funerals, and hosted a blood drive for the injured. Conversely, "phhht" sneered at them on the internet. Draw your own conclusions.
2
Give me some time with you - I dare you. I have gathered more data points over the course of my life that are evidence of the reality of God, and of God's involvement in my life, than you can possibly imagine. Subjective yes, but real nonetheless. And I am a clinical scientist by training so please don't automatically assume I'm an intellectual lightweight.
I think the real problem might be that people with the opinion you expressed have never sat down with someone of faith and actually LISTENED to WHY they believe, and what evidence they base that on. Have you ever tried, and actually listened?
Someone provides a heartfelt story of faith and community after a wretched shooting, and 2 of the first 5 comments are full of sneers. And yet those on the left are usually the ones who are open-minded and accepting of other viewpoints, who elevate tolerance as a virtue, and who rue the use of negative stereotypes about identity groups. That all seems to go out the window where Christianity is involved.
Please re-read the article. Is it really so offensive? Or are your negative stereotypes about Christians coming to the fore?
4