I get that most of the rhetoric seems to be blasting Trump, and thats because of his impulsive comments. The Seoul government with its riches and much larger population long had the ability to provide their own defense against tbe North. This is especially true after the fall of the Soviet Union, the main supporter of the Kim government. They chose to rely on the American military for ptotection from the North. This is why Mr. Moon is boxed in. The Seoul government must deal with their neighbors to the north, even if that means a US troop withdrawl from South Korea.
4
The box for SK is a nuclear NK, not Trump.
The success of the NK nuclear program is largely due to four items.
1- Nuclear weapon technology from Pakistan.
2 - Ballistic missile technology from Russia.
3 - Missile launch vehicles from China.
4 - China’s support of the Kim family regime.
We missed on items one and two, but items three and four, China’s support of NK, must be addressed. First would be to reenter the TPP with some minor adjustments to the terms so Trump can claim his victory of negotiating a better deal, more importantly it will limit the influence of China in the region.
Secondly, the American consumer needs to apply pressure to companies who manufacture their products in China and the American voter needs to ask their state representative what is being done to bring jobs back to the US.
Thirdly, we need to maintain strong relationships with our allies in the region and foster growth with the emerging nations.
As for war on the Korean peninsula, certainly President Moon understands that the US does not need the consent of SK to go to war with NK. All the US needs is a NK attack on a USN vessel; of which there are, several in the region, and then war would expand from that point onward. With no other alternatives available, SK will march into war without discussion.
The variables of how this NK/China problem will eventually play out are as fascinating as they can be frightening but let us be clear, Trump did not create this box, he is rattling it.
7
There is no such a thing as "American security guarantee", especially when Trump/Graham pair declaring "if thousands going to die, it's going to be over there, not over here".
Koreans have economic and technological wherewithals. They should just dump the US military "guarantee" and alliance, and start covering their own behinds. With all that money they make selling boat loads of Hundais cars and Samsung phones, they have no execuse not to.
2
Why has this op-ed writer not notices China's backing off insisting on South Korea's ridding itself of anti- ballistic missiles from the US, which have the potential to defang both Trump & Kim Jung Un?
1
Saber Rattling, Fear mongering, Sensationalist journalism. None of these lead to war. I'm sure that NK knows what happened after Pearl Harbour.
The really scary thing things is that this is Trump's way of clearing a path to the next election.
There there is an ethnocentric notion among some folks here that nothing in the world ever happens unless some American caused it to happen either directly, though ineptititude, or neglect. Thus, we see here, President Trump is responsible for the present crisis because of his threatening response to NK - and as we see in the commentary those who cast blame if President Obama for his neglect of the situation. See? Nobody believes the North Koreans, or the South Koreans, or even the Chinese are capable of creating this circumstance themselves. So, it’s not the fact that Kim Jong Un has been firing ICBM’s in our direction, and testing nuclear bombs that has caused the problem. No. It’s president Trump’s reaction to it, essentially, according to his critics at least, his “ineptitude” in his “handling” of North Korea. And in this, we see the essense: The USA “handles” everything in the world, and when we think we don’t, we turn our anger toward our own government, instead of folks like poor little Kim Jong Un. All foreign affairs our in our hands, and if anything bad, anywhere, in the world, it’s always our fault, one way or another. This ethnocentism leads to the belief that we are guardians of the whole world, and all the other people in the world are our children who are either wisely guided by us, or led to ruin by us. It’s all very arrogant - and it causes people to lose their objectivity and perspective.
2
The US is not going to tolerate real NK nuclear threats against it. Of course SK should not condone it: it already has a NK knife at its throat. US military action is going to be unilateral so there's no excuse for NK to retaliate against its neighbor. This is the US being threatened, and our fight. The fact that SK has to fear a violent despot's hysterical threats and threatened attack is why the US is taking this course unilaterally. This nightmare of humanity will not be our fate.
1
I think that Donald trump is the worst president to ever have occupied the Oval Office. Nevertheless, maybe his erratic behavior and shoot first ask questions later attitude might just be a match for the North Korean regime's attitude toward nuclear weaponization. We saw Obama draw a red line in Syria and then back down when that line was crossed. Now see where that got us. Trump is just irrational and impulsive enough that maybe his enemies might fear him enough that they would never take the first step because the results might be what he said they would be. Even a stopped clock is right twice a day.
It's sad but not surprising that the NYT sees Trump as the problem as opposed to the NKs. Most everything Trump has said or done has been in response to the NKs testing of nukes and missles as well as the failure of the Chinese to take any action to stop them.
2
The Art of War: "All warfare is based on deception". Trump's unpredictability is a good thing! NK has always been reckless. Now, they are dealing with someone in the same league. Before they push Trump further, they better think twice! Think about the previlige, power, money, women, status which they are enjoying now. Paper tiger worked in the past but not any more. Dare to try Trump? I don't think so. I really think Trump is the right person to deal with NK. He is draining the swamp in the State Department. I hope Trump will raise this question during his visit: why in the world do South Koreans put their capital right next to their enemy? It makes no sense. US should not be hijacked by the reckless decision.
1
It's disturbing how many comments call for military action or even assassination in an attempt to 'solve' this long standing issue of nuclear proliferation. Have we not learned our lesson yet that violence only leads to more violence? Apparently not.
1
To read and listen to much of the American press, you'd think that the ROK cowers behind an American shield. But 95 percent of the military forces in South Korea are South Korean. There is no military option that doesn't involve the South Koreans. The United States has no right to start a war that would be largely be fought and suffered by others.
3
We know that Trump my lead us into a nuclear war on this peninsula. Talks, of course, are the answer, and without the preconditions we have insisted on in the past. North Korean people need a chance to join the rest of the world in trade and other relations, and as long as they feel they are respected in negotiations with the U. S. and other parties, they may well accept a bargain where they freeze their missile tests and we freeze OUR actions on those coasts. A smart president would welcome Mr. Moon and the deep desire of South Koreans for peace at last with the Korean people in the north.
1
Mr. Moon, who stole the presidency by using "candle light mobs", is endangering US with NK. The core group of candlelight mobs are NK agents who hate the anticommunist president. I do not trust Moon.
2
Mr. Trump has stated that he intends to solve the problem of a nuclear capable N. Korea. Clearly, this implies solving the problem during his time in office.
Clearly talk with N. Korea is not seen as part of the solution.
There are dim prospects for success of a strategy that involves no negotiation with N. Korea but pressure on Russia and China to force the outcome that Trump desires. Conciliatory words may be said over dinner with Trump, but actions will advance the interests of China not of the U.S.
A likely outcome is increased cooperation between China and S. Korea and a diminished role for the U.S. in region.
1
It is too bad. We waited too long, and had been cheated by NK and fooled by Carter and Kissinger like. It may be too late to protect ourselves from the incoming N Missiles from the crazy man, but I would feel better if Mr. Trump saves our lives by destroying the bad ones and those sympathizers.
Mr. Trump; do not trust on Moon.
Mr. Moon, who stole the presidency by using "candle light mobs", is endangering US with NK. The core group of candlelight mobs are NK agents who hate the anticommunists.
Seems to me everyone is "boxed in by Trump". Sad....
“The sin which is unpardonable is knowingly and wilfully to reject truth, to fear knowledge lest that knowledge pander not to thy prejudices.”
~ ALEISTER CROWLEY
3
What a joke. I think it’s time for the Korean leader to self reflect and examine all the actions of prior South Korean presidents. Building factories and pretty much doing anything to appease the loony toon in North Korea. Just because Trunp isn’t willing to continue down that path, isn’t the issue...
4
Trump is not unpredictable. After nine months those who cling to the hope he is just unpredictable are just hoping he can be wrenched back to some sort of old normalcy which he will not practice. Three months after this trip is complete he will still be acting tough against North Korea while being restrained by his generals from something far more harmful. Not that his crowing will accomplish anything other than maybe convince his base he is the President from central casting. The US failure to anticipate, much less control, North Korea's nuclear weapons development is its own. But this President, as in all other matters, may eventually try to deflect and place blame for US shortcomings onto others, like South Korea. Under Moon, Soth Korea needs to decide how it will act (not what it will say) with an ally of this stripe.
1
We should let China shoulder more responsibility to solve the Korea peninsula problem. It is to China's best interest to keep N. Korea nuclear free. They are also closer to N. Korea and have larger influence on them. It is a bad choice that we spend the money, people, and effort to defend other countries that they can do it by themselves. It is always easy to start a war, but very difficult to end. We should focus instead on our own domestic problems, and bring back our troops.
1
We had lived rather peacefully under the influence of China in Far East, except for the short turmoil brought by Mongolian, until Japan's greed was stimulated by the West's. The US military presence in this region is aberrant and we will have to return to a situation similar to the old sooner or later in view of the sheer size of China. Moon's predicament of no way out in sight is shared by all sensible people, unfortunately except for Trump and Abe. I just hope the tumult brought by a gang of leaders will subside without hiccups.
everybody knows orange is a loose cannon. but he was handed a flaming bag of do-do by every Pres since daddy Bush. and most certainly, he's the worst man imaginable for the job. kim sees thru him like the blowhard yet spineless cheap suit he is.
but the US should have been, ane esp now, saying we have no quarrel with the people of N Kores. but they evil one has to go. period. they have two bad choices, follow him to their sure and complete annihilation or overthrow him. there are no other choices.
we should be disbursing propaganda by hacking their ISPs, broadcasting on radio and even dropping usb sticks over metro areas with anti-kim messages, promises millions in foreign aid and esp what to do if and when he plays his ONLY card and the annihilation of the entire country begins.
that we coud forment enough trouble for citizens to overthrow him but if we arent reaching out to leadership and giving them their either-or solution they face now b/c of him, then thats our fault.
if we convince leadrership that they will survive ONLY if they dont retaliate WHEN we decapitate, then we will have made the world alot safer. but if the fat one thinks he can blackmail US to doing nothing when the midget soldiers invade from the north,he's sadly, sadly, sadly, fatally mistaken.
Celeste Arrington summarized President Moon's situation perfectly; Moon is constrained greatly. He seems to have given in to the PRCs demands (the three no's), no more THAAD, no joining a US-led missile defense and no military alliance with the US and Japan. Additionally the Korean Federation of Trade Unions has been marching against Mr. Moon's policies even though they supported him during the last election.
I think it is a bit sad and ironic that one of the best presidents that South Korea has ever had is so hemmed in that it is taking much more effort and time, on his administration's part to achieve anything at all. I only hope President Moon can use this impasse to the country's advantage and, for the time being, focus on other issues like household debt and moving factory production back to South Korea, which worries me a bit more than the people up north or the arrogance of the PRC, who are not to be trusted in anything.
Now that is an interesting viewpoint. America should protect South Korea (at significant expense in manpower and finance) under the Alliance, while South Korea works diligently to bring back factory production to its nation. Translation: Increasing the already heavy trade imbalance that the US has with South Korea. Exactly where is the benefit to America.
3
Prez Trump is willing to have this game of chicken with the North and defend the South Korean peninsula to the last South Korean. That is a real badge of political courage.
2
President Moon is caught between a rock and a hard place as the saying goes.
He gives ever appearance of a very intelligent, reasonable man who understands the peninsula he and his people live on but historically it has always been an object of attraction to its neighbors. He wishes to buy time for Kim’s régime to feel it has what it needs to survive its perceived threat and hopes the two Koreas can reach then co-existence.
If America sees a reason to negotiate with Pyongyang and that would include American restraint in its role in his own country and a settlement could be found. In such a world nuclear disarmament could again find support among nations.
Unfortunately there is no longer room for such foresighted leadership. He has a fool on one side and the other and Japan under Shinzo Abe headed for enhanced militarization.
He does not cower easily, wish him well. China and Korea see a similar path that could make a difference; or not.
I have been to North Korea. There is nothing redeeming about that country.
Folks below condemning POTUS should also read the accompanying story of Japanese families whose loved ones were abducted. It is just heart wrenching - I am old enough to remember our own struggles over POW's in Vietnam.
What will the folks below think if one day, a missile flies overhead from North Korea and the government does nothing?
Japanese have been recipient of these visits for some time.
It's time to say enough is enough.
This is a heinous regime - it is surprising it has lasted this long with atrocities it has committed overseas and at home.
Of course, China is the protector of this terrorist regime. I hope the POTUS lets the Chinese know that he holds them responsible.
The civilized world finally woke up to ISIS and decided to defeat it and destroy it.
About time, some one called the North Korean bluff.
My visit to North Korea made me realize that Koreans there do not need Bibles or more compassionate talk - they need guns and bullets to take on these brutal dictators and their enablers in Pyongyang and Beijing.
I wish the POTUS would go to DMZ - I have been on both sides - to really feel the tension in air there.
Send an unmistakable signal by pointing a rifle towards North Korea - and declaring,"We are coming after you."
8
There are lots of things Moon could do to advance the cause of peace.
The first thing would be to restore freedom of speech. Now you can be sent to jail for a remark that is seen as too friendly for North Korea.
Next thing are the military "exercises" with the US. They are plainly ridiculous. Spending every year up to two months exercising - sometimes with more than half a million troops - has nothing to do with defense or military readiness. They are plain intimidation or - in the Pentagon's Orwellian Newspeak: deterrence. Moon would do well to set some limits on them. Even a symbolic limit would set the principle that South Korea is in charge and not the US.
And then there is of course the peace treaty. More than sixty years after the war ended there is still only an armistice. A peace treaty wouldn't make North and South Korea friends but it would at least shift them officially from the goal of "liberation" of the other half towards mutual recognition. And that certainly would contribute towards less tensions.
3
Let’s remember one thing. North Korea’s ICBMs when perfected may as well be stationed in Cuba. They take four minutes from a launch pad in North Korea to downtown Chicago. Kim will not give up his nuclear aspirations. It’s been the dream of his father and grandfather. We arm South Korea and Japan with nuclear weapons and use the mutual assured destruction strategy. Then off to the round table with the North and South finding some sort of coexistence strategy. In the meantime if we could get some Korean mafia types to take out Kim that could work too; you know the way our CIA tried to take out Castro
7
I think the flight time of a missile from N. Korea to Chicago is off by a factor of 10-
http://www.businessinsider.com/north-korean-nuclear-strike-united-states...
1
As this NYT article shows, South Korea’s president, Moon Jae-in is between a rock and a hard place. The possibility of a nuclear war on the Korean Peninsula is no longer a hypothetical war game simulation.
One alternative for SK is to use China as the main interlocutor to negotiate a political solution with its belligerent Northern neighbor.
Otherwise, the alternative is to play with the lives of millions of South and North Koreans in charge of a hot-tempered Kim Jon-Un and an erratic/berserk Donald Trump.
10
Insults and derogatory terms are important in the age of Trump, and we should be clear that "dotard" is the English translation of "neukdari", a Korean derogatory term for a useless old fool. I get the impression that Kim Jong Un's word "neukdari" is an everyday Korean expression, and the more unusual "dotard" appeared only because Korean bilingual dictionaries use some pretty old-fashioned English.
Of course, in this case, either word would be equally appropriate.
There is a diplomatic solution to this crisis for the reunification of North and South Korea. It is the same solution that opened the door between the United States and Iran and Cuba--a plan for an international government, where disputes between nations are resolved in court rather than the battlefield, and the monies wasted on war will go to the people. By the time the Olympics arrives in three months, there is no reason North Koreans would not attend the events.
I hope the president is careful if he visits the dmz, N.K. is infamous for grabbing foreigners. The only thing worse than what we have is a Theocracy, for which our VP is praying for.
Clearly, much of the readership herein would prefer to self-validate by criticizing Donald Trump than address the existential threat nuclear weapons in the hands of the murderous and malevolent North Korean regime poses to the US and its allies. Trump, for all his numerous faults, recognizes the danger those weapons pose and he and his national security team are addressing that threat prudently.
4
If Trump dare to order an attack on N Korea without S Korea's consent, using S Korean soil to stage an attack on N Korea or simply to assassinate Kim, US must be booted out from S Korea.
An attack on N Korea against the will of S Korea which is represented by Moon means US have her own selfish interest, acting out of fear N Korea will very soon have deliverable nukes to hit CONUS. This is not what S Korea have in mind. They will become collateral damage due to US illegally using the S Korea territory to attack N Korean nuclear sites.
An attack on N Korea unilaterally expose US as not a genuine ally of S Korea, but an abuser of her national security interest. Same goes for using Japanese soil to attack N Korea if Tokyo don't consent with clear written permission, not some backroom deals.
If such an attack on N Korea occur, it will be worse than the Bush 'Niger uranium yellow cake' excuse to invade another country in which case US should be branded a gangster country which don't respect international law.
1
It can be argued that Trump's "fire and fury" comments were from the start designed to neutralize the new S Korean leader's efforts to build a peaceful relationship with N. Korea. "The American base was recently expanded after S. Korea provided land and financing" (from this article)...This was the only objective all along. Good bye nature, good-bye fields, just machines and cement from here to eternity. And Trump's strategy carries significant risk of war because the North could in fact read his comments as a declaration of war and fire off a missile that would land in Guam or something like that, something that Trump is fine with, since the US would obliterate the North in that case with "justification". The US military has many white officers and decision makers but it attacks countries where non-whites live, the Middle East most notably, but also (remember) Vietnam and it dropped nuclear bombs on Japan. Asian and African and Middle Eastern people (people of color) are most likely to be targets of US military action, so indeed the North Koreans SHOULD be very very worried about being bombed and the South Koreans should also worry because Trump won't care about them dying either in any war there. Japan is also a non-white country so it should also be worried about a war in the Korean peninsula brought about casually by Trump and the Americans, NOT North Korea. It is the Americans who have historically threatened Asians and Asia the most, NOT North Koreans.
3
What do Trump's armchair critics, most of them disillusioned liberals and loser Democrats, know about diplomacy? Do they even know what it is except as another means of attacking the President whose cardinal sin so far is that he, not Hillary, won the election? Yes, South Korea has to adapt to a new style of leadership in Trump, but so does Kim Jung Un. Making nicey-nice to him and being "diplomatic," as commonly understood, will not work. Half of the game is sizing up one's opponent and calling his bluff if necessary, which is exactly what Trump has done. His critics though are only too happy to create a lurid picture of nuclear annihilation unless Kim Jung is appeased. Blinded by their own loss of power at home, they cannot see the end goal of a unified Korea which after some sixty years of stalemate at the 38th parallel is long overdue. The risk is worth it. Nothing has ever been gained by timidity or by the wilful distortions of political partisans who don't want the President to succeed on any terms because of their own selfish political interests.
5
Trump no doubt noticed the way invading a small country put GWBush's lackluster presidency on the map and shielded him from a great deal of criticism.
3
What an outrageous article. You would have us believe that our President is the cause of the current crisis, that he is threatening North Korea without provocation. The fact is previous well intentioned administrations paid billions over a 25 year period to appease the North and have them abandon their nuclear ambitions. They took the money, like Iran did recently, laughed in our faces and raced forward toward a bomb. Everyone admires an eloquent speaking President. Unfortunately, they were taken advantage of. America was threatened and blackmailed constantly. Death to America is the North Korean mantra. It is that of Iran. So we now have a President who is is dealing with a crisis not of his own making. Dictator Kim threatened America, as North Korea has for decades, only this time the threats are all too real. Are we supposed to cower and bend to the will of a mad man? I am sure so many writers at the Times would erroneously assume I am talking about President Trump. That is ludicrous. The only mad man is Kim. Our President is standing up to a clear and present danger. He knows we can't kick the can down the road any further, realizes this threat must be eliminated before it is too late. North Korea and Iran are not rational players. Pacifists seem all too willing to see a few cities disappear in a flash before taking action. Even then the action would probably be to seek a dialog to end hostilities with these terrorist nations. Who would the mad men be then?
8
"Engagement" with the North Koreans has never worked. The North Koreans want to take over South Korea and the South has to be prepared to defend itself with or without help from the US unless they are willing to become Kim's slaves. The Chinese and Kim would like to diminish American influence in the area but ultimately South Korea can't be allowed to survive as a democracy from their point of view.
5
South Korea is boxed in on a peninsula already. And now a populous that has been suffering claustrophobics for decades is feeling even more boxed in. Thanks allot Trump.
1
I hope that Trump is treated as the lame rat that he is, but lame rats have nothing to lose and are very dangerous.
Dear South Korea,
The people of the United States also worry that President Bonespurs is dragging our nation to the brink of war. We don't want war, either. We haven't finished with all the other wars we're in and it looks like we never will. The last thing we need is another one.
19
Yes, South Korea may be more accustomed than the U.S. to North Korea's belligerence including unprovoked artillery attacks and the torpedoing of a South Korean warship. But North Korea's military buildup of nuclear weapons and nuclear tipped ICBMs constitute a huge threat not only to the U.S. but to its allies as well. Were it not for the U.S. troops stationed in South Korea South Koreans would be experiencing first hand what it would be like living under North Korean rule.
5
I feel sorry for the South Koreans being bullied by the warmongering USA to support this insane pro war posture.
South Koreans think Trump more dangerous than Kim up in the North. This says something.
The NYT usually tears into President Chump for braking with established US foreign policy style/substance and yet in this, the one area he's kept consistent, you also blame him.
That's ridiculous. At least Trump isn't a hypocrite in this regard like Obama or Clinton claiming to champion peace and women and children and then expanding Bush's wars and setting the entire Middle East and half of Africa on fire.
This is 1 area where at least trump is honest.
No half hearted talk of human rights before going into meetings were its not discussed again.
Human rights are only championed when we want to partition the Sudan to get at South Sudan's oil. Or in Iraq and Syria or Libya with despots who won't give us all the oil contracts.
That said, Trump will be out of his depth on this Asia trip, I'm sure we will be able to enjoy the usual faux pas and revel in his astute shallowness.
Meanwhile, the big Donna Brazile story is going on. The DNC Chair, who has just admitted Hillary bought the DNC and rigged the primary against Bernie.
Also, the NYC board of elections admitted purging 200k people of voter rolls, illegally. But none of this is receiving much if any coverage in the NYTimes.
Sure makes one wonder...
4
The situation has changed. Other countries are now threatened by North Korean missiles. South Korea is no longer in a position to "say no" to the other threatened countries. All the same, it should be acknowledged that the South Korean peril is by far the greatest.
For the same reason, if a North Korean missile were to land in the United States, South Korea should not be able to veto an American response.
Of course, Mr. Trump will make things worse. He has already significantly increased the risk of nuclear war on the peninsula. Most Americans like most South Koreans blame Trump for the present state of affairs.
Perhaps Trump instead of visiting would rather neglect or humiliate multicultural Hawaii? Earlier this year his attorney general said it was outrageous that a federal judge on a little island in the Pacific could make rulings that applied to Americans.
Side deals between South Korea and China that limit American defense capabilities seem counterproductive for everybody but China which does not want the United States in the west Pacific at all. China and Russia do not want reunification if that means an American presence on the peninsula.
Mr. Trump is not behaving like a friend to South Korea. For that matter, he is not behaving as a friend to any living entity on the planet. But the United States remains a steadfast ally.
4
Time and again it's corporate profits versus national security.
While South Korea is apparently resigned to a certain degree of bullying, including unprovoked attacks, by North Korea to avoid resumption of the Korean War, the North's threats are primarily against the U.S. which, as a world super power, has every reason to counter such threats with appropriate action.
Although former defense secretary Robert Gates counsels that the U.S. ought to get tougher with China, North Korea's key trading partner, such a strategy is a non-starter because it would likely impact trade with China thereby impacting corporate profits which are currently at an all time high.
But doing nothing just encourages the North to keep building its nuclear weapons arsenal and ICBM capabilities. And sooner or later those weapons will find their way to Iran and other countries which would like to mount a credible defense against the U.S. and its allies.
It's guaranteed that Trump will only say something provocative after he leaves South Korea and Japan. No way this coward is going to put himself in the direct line of fire.
Per family tradition, no Trump has ever put himself in military danger. His grandfather left Germany to avoid military service and Donald's same grandfather, his father, himself, his brothers and his sons have never served in the US military.
Yet today, he called Bergdahl who did volunteer for military service a disgrace. Trump is beyond shameful.
1
It's guaranteed that Trump will only say something provocative after he leaves South Korea and Japan. No way this coward is going to put himself in the direct line of fire.
Per family tradition, no American Trump has ever put himself in military danger. His grandfather left Germany to avoid military service and neither Donald's same grandfather, his father, himself, his brothers, his sons or his nephews have ever served in the US military.
Yet today, he called Bergdahl who did volunteer for military service a disgrace. Trump is beyond shameful.
10
The quickest way to solve this problem? Pull *all* of our forces our of South Korea. Pull them out of Japan. This is the most feared US option by China, Japan, and both Koreas. If we did, no country would be able to play the U.S. off against [insert country here]. All would be terrified that *they* would be responsible for what happened, not the US.
3
Trump may need a big war to distract from his big Russian problem.
8
Choe and Rich again traffic in false equivalence and strawmen.
Moon is president because Park was impeached.
Moon is boxed in By North Korea destabilizing the world with nukes and icbm. He never offered a solution to the problem besides magical thinking. Left out of this nonsense is Kim's explicit refusal to ever give up the ability to nuke the US when he gets it But that ruins the fictions"reported" here.
China is shielding it all to get the U.S. out.
When I read Choe it is clear to me. I also want the U.S. out. First take out the North Korean nukes and ICBMs. Then leave forever. Good riddance. Let the "human rights" lawyer deal with China alone. Enough with useful idiot fellow traveler false equivalence strawman nonsense.
To set as fact Moon won "because." I am furious when the Times gives credence to Trump's fake news nonsense but yet it does. Choe and Rich have a story to tell that no editor ever should have allowed because it is demonstrably false. Way to be objective allies of fascist Trump. He needs them. He is as honest as they.
2
The “reporting” has been rewritten since my comment.
Yet.
Still dishonest.
“The last thing they want is for him to come here and add instability.”
yea, we got the same problem in the US.
so, sorry you are stuck between two raving idiots, one north of the border and the other visiting.
5
The US foreign policies are a good part if not most of the NK problem...
"North Korea says it could stop nuclear tests in exchange for the U.S. scrapping joint military drills with South Korea, while also calling for a peace treaty with the U.S. in an echo of demands that Washington had rejected in the past." (Associated Press, "North Korea says it could halt nuke tests if US scraps drills", 15 january 2016)
"The isolated state [North Korea] has long sought a peace treaty with the United States and other parties in the 1950-53 Korean War, as well as an end to military exercises by South Korea and the United States, which has about 28,500 troops based in South Korea." (Reuters, "U.S. rejected North Korea peace talks offer before last nuclear test: State Department", Feb 22, 2016)
"Soon after the [Agreed Framework nuclear] agreement was signed, U.S. Congress control changed to the Republican Party, who did not support the agreement (...)
KEDO's first director, Stephen Bosworth, later commented "The Agreed Framework was a political orphan within two weeks after its signature". (...)
Some analysts believe North Korea agreed to the freeze primarily because of the U.S. agreement to phase out economic sanctions that had been in place since the Korean War. But because of congressional opposition, the U.S. failed to deliver on this part of the agreement." (wikipedia, Agreed_Framework)
etc
1
Of course Moon is an appeaser, he has been since prior to his election. His appeasment got him nowhere as the North continues to test weapons of mass destruction.
A month ago Moon sent 7 million dollars worth of relief to the North, thats 7 million dollars more to spend on their weapons programs. China continues to deal surreptiously with North Korea while paying lip service to the world.
Where are we going with this ?
Trump is the first President that seems to mean what he says and not ignore a festering situation as other Presidents have.
8
While I agree that giving money and oil and food does nothing but help prop up the Kim's - I must disagree with the idea that Trump and his hardline stance is welcome.
For the past 25+ years America has insisted that NK disarm before peace talks can even begin.... and where has that gotten us? Now we have Trump blustering and bullying and vehemently demanding that NK bow to US authority.... and where will that get us...?
NK has repeatedly asked for a peace treaty -- why not give it to them? Ah yes, because that would mean having to pull American military presence out of South Korea giving China and Russia more breathing room....
So America marches along, always the good soldiers.... toward inevitable war.....
How many wars is that now for America since the end of WWII..? 40+ wars/attacks on sovereign nations..... nice!
How many wars is that now for NK since the end of WWII..? only 1 war.
Which country has surrounded the other with trillions of dollars worth of weapons?
But yeah, let's continue the charade that NK is the aggressor and is not seeking peace.
Technically it was $7 million in food aid, not $7 million in cash. Moon Jae-in isn't that stupid to breach UN Sanctions.
From the Guardian: "The aid package did not include cash payments, the ministry said, and there was “realistically no possibility” that it could be of any use to the North Korean military." https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/sep/21/south-korea-approves-8m-ai...
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Many of the comments here are very sad to read, and they miss one of the points that Pulitzer Prize winner Mr Choe is trying to make: that the US has put a man who, at risk to his political base, has honored his country's alliance with ours in a position that drains the word "ally" of much of its meaning.
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Everyone wants a quick easy answer to the complicated questions regarding the division between the North and South Korea. The North really doesn't want a war they cannot possibly win, but they also don't want the U. S. meddling in their regional affairs. Let's see how many interesting things DJT says over the course of 12 days in Asia. Let's see how much diversary and confefe he can muster.
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"their regional affairs"
Think about that for a minute. Then do the decent thing and retract it. Nah. Who am I kidding. No one who wrote that would see the problem.
The biggest mistake of S. Koreans was relying Trump. The US is no longer the leader of the free world, at least not under Trump presidency. Even the leader of the communist nation of China would be more reliable than Trump.
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Delusion.
Trump will show during conference, he is the STUPIDIST "leader" attending. South Korea's leader MUST be heard!
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Watching Trump and Melania alighting from Air Force One and being fawned over by the local Democratic politicians whose party dominates here. One can detest him personally and disagree vehemently with his policies and positions, but he's the President after all. Now he will go on to confer with all the Asian powers that be who are as fascinated with him and as curious about him as anybody else. It all centers on him as the leader of the most powerful nation on earth and with a giant ego to match. The world loves power and the show of it even more, and he plays his part to the hilt even after a thirteen hour plane trip. Hillary and all her disenchanted supporters, eat your hearts out. It could have been all yours, but he took it all away from you. There's no place in history for losers.
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There is a place for Benedict Arnold and a place for Donald Trump who collaborated with Russia to take an American election.
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So the point of your comment was just to make the other side feel bad?
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Theres no place in history for losers... Are you saying Trump is not a loser?
Better to let Kim have his toys like nukes and missiles then let anything happen to the Winter Olympics. Finally, we’re beginning to get what really matters most in this world. Our world really isn’t as heavy as we’d all like to think we deserve. A big sandbox is really all it is.
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Ever since his cowardly, unpatriotic and dishonorable German grandfather fled to America to avoid criminal prosection for dodging the German military draft no member of the Donald Trump family has been foolish enough to be drafted into the American armed services nor to volunteer to wear the military uniform of any American armed force. While taking a knee on being a real patriot the Trump boys and girls focus distraction on NFL athletes as being sons of female dogs for taking a knee on the national Anthem and the flag at a for profit entertainment venue.
Since 9/11/01 a mere 0.75% of Americans have volunteered to wear the uniform of any American armed force. And they have been ground to emotional, mental and physical dust by repeated deployments in foreign ethnic sectarian civil wars that have no military solution.
Moreover there is only one ethnic sectarian historical Korea divided by socioeconomic political and educational civil war backed up by big power players.
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My god, it is terrifying to think that the fate of the world rests in the hands of an unpredictable madman...
...and that he is the president of the United States...
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Let South Korea develop nuclear weapons
Then US troops can leave South Korea as they are obviously ambivalent about them. This way they cant complain about the US which will be happy with the US-Japan treaty.
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In Trumps mind, one black life or one South Korean life is worth only 1/10 of a white American’s life. Mexican or North Koreans lives are basically worthless. Yeah, of course, better start the war there than here.
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About the same worth regarding black, white lives held by xenophobic, historically Authoritarian South Koreans.
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If there is a guarantee that there is no military action against Kim et al. under any circumstances, then what will he do? If Kim has a mind like that of Stalin, how would you react?
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U.S. should not be protecting First World, high tech, xenophobic South Korea. But Trump must be willing to protect American real tiger which mesns nuking North Korea if the Dear Leader keeps provoking Uncle Sam.
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South Korea has an unenviable position. If it moves to far in outreach, it loses the American alliance. Suddenly, it is the "new Finland" of the post-Cold War. Gone is its access to the American consumer markets, and the heavy imbalance of trade and profits it brings to the country. But too far the other way in military assertiveness, it infringes on its growing trade with China. But always, the fear it will fall into the Chinese economic sphere of influence. Total supplication will then be required.
I think the article is giving Trump too much credit. I'm not convinced he knows what he's doing in North Korea. Staffers certainly work hard to inform the President. However, the man lacks object permanence. We're talking about a man that can't even pronounce the word "diversify." Do you really think he possesses a full grasp of one of the oldest and most complex regional conflicts in the entire world? Trump is only interested in North Korea through the lens of media self-promotion. No wonder Mr. Moon is struggling with the new administration. Trump is going to get South Koreans killed.
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China is the enemy here. NK exists only because of China's good will and pleasure. Always remember China is the force behind every destabilization in the Far East.
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Just say, "No! We do not have a few million citizens to sacrifice to fill in the yawning gaps in Trump's Knowlege of Foreign Policy, the Korean Peninsula, or the basics of his job. We are also entirely opposed to dying to satisfy Trump's insatiable Ego and Self Regard!"
It's his nation, his people, and their country that will perish if he cannot say, "No" to Trump.
Another area where Trump has no education! Where did he go to school that he knows less than a high school
about climate, nuclear energy etc? Why doesn't he know that air pollution kills? Why doesn't he know that one hydrogen bomb can kill millions immediately and the rest of us later-----including his own family.
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Just tell the draft dodger that everyone in the South Korean army developed bone spurs and that our troops are not welcome anymore.
Provocation removed.
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It would appear that we have waited for some sort of backing down by N. Korea, or at least opening the possibility that they would cease their nuclear/ICBM ambitions. Waiting for another Pearl Harbor incident seems crazy. The president's trip may confirm the US actions that we did not want, but need to take to stop the threat.
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The Donald is yet another GOPresident who sought deferments when the military called but now fancies himself a valiant warrior eager to do battle vicariously through his own troops and those of other, weaker nations. He's Snoopy taking on the Red Baron, looking to start a war that others will be left to execute.
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Name any other GOP president that utilized deferments.
One solution: do not let him in the country. The Grifter will stir trouble and then, he will fly out and leave the mess behind.
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China was not able or unwilling to stop the DPRK's nuclear buildup, so now S. Korea and Japan will get nuclear missiles. That will cause China and Russia to get more anxious about nuclear weapons in E.Asia. And then India and Pakistan will worry about nuclear weapons so close (relatively) to them. And on it goes. Until someone will finally shoot off their nuclear weapons in a fit of pique at some perceived insult. Bye Bye Planet Earth..
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I keep reading insinuations that it is all Trump's fault. I see most if not all threats coming from Kim. Trump can't let any of them pass unanswered. Childish!
It is very dangerous because these children are uncontrollable.
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The South Korean President is an appeaser with President Trump saving his country for him.
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It must be disheartening for South Korea, their voice and influence is hardly heard. The U.S., and China hold most of the negotiating cards and yet of the three, South Korea has the most to lose. If war were to come, they and the North Korean people will lose 100’s of thousands of lives, if not millions.
And yet Trump and this Administration are trying their best to inflame the situation even more so with the North. Why, Trumps ego, and nothing else. President Incurious likely will have to ask for an Atlas on his flight there next week to see where it is. Sorry to say, there is no real solution to this threatening rhetoric until Trump leaves office. And the sooner the better.
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Unfortunately, "South" (vs. "North") Korea exists ONLY due to a War that was Left Unfinished, fifty-odd years ago. World leaders of that day may have thought that they accomplished something by drawing a line on a map, but they left a festering wound north of that line, and now that wound has utterly filled with pus.
It is not "The United States" that threatens War. Rather, it is "the still pus-filled wound" that threatens it. Why? Because "the pus-filled wound" believes that it has nothing to lose.
However, are we speaking of "the PEOPLE of North Korea?" Certainly not. Even though these people may have been taught since birth that they are doomed to die in "Glorious War," I daresay that they are no more interested in actually meeting that Doom as anyone else would be. They are, however, presently being ruled by Psychopaths.
Donald Trump is the first world leader in MUCH too long to actually begin to force the issue: to confront these psychopaths in their psychopathy. To refuse to accept the ILLUSIONS that these evil men have held to for so very long, namely: "We are legitimate Heads of State, who represent Our Own People."
Unfortunately, many previous world leaders, including several American Presidents, chose to look the other way. They decided that Psychopaths were legitimate Heads of State, and that they needed ICBMs and nuclear warheads. "What Fools these Mortals Be!"
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The US and its allies had won the war, until Gen. MacArthur, against everyone's recommendations, bombed the bridged and brought China into the fight.
Why was there a stalemate? Because Doug was an egotistical idiot.
Sorta like our current leader.
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Oh heck. Go ahead and invade North Korea, Mr. Trump. War is good for business. What with all the big corporate tax cuts alone creating so many guaranteed good jobs, then there would be two or three job offers for every American to choose from working at the defense plants. Goodbye to McDonald's and Walmart jobs and food stamps and Medicaid! People will even come out of retirement and kids will drop of out college to take them, generating tons of new tax revenue to build The Wall and hire more border guards and ICE police, and extreme vetters to keep Muslim terrorists out. Even more jobs! War is a trickle-down win-win-win for everybody but the soldiers who have to fight it on the ground, but like the Commander-in-Chief told the Gold Star widow, they know what they signed up for.
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So even nuclear war turns out to be all about whatever is on Annie’s mind just like everything else.
The powerlessness of South Korea to change the situation is entirely due to the intransigence of the North, which does not need to negotiate. The backing of Russia (where do you think they're getting the ballistic technology) and China guarantees this. China and Russia can end this immediately, but Russia especially would like nothing better than the US to get sucked into a conflict in the Korean peninsula, preferably distracting China as well.
Where are they getting their ballistic technology? Iran. France. China. The Internet.
The engines are Russian design. Russia has stationed divisions on the NK border, and has picked up the slack in trade, where China has tried embargo.
Trump has made South Korea's geopolitical position untenable. They are between a rock and a hard place. The rock being Trump, the aging bully with serious male ego problems.
What Senator Graham said was unconscionable but a reflection of how little thought is given to the value of lives. Trump only has feelings for himself, and Senator Graham echoes the worst part of the disease known as Narcissism. Trump considers his own military and West Coast population expendable along with the 50 million souls living in South Korea. The ultimate depravity.
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Thirteen people approve of Andrea making mutually exclusive arguments.
South Koreans are at risk BECAUSE Trump WONT put the west coast or the east coast or even Kansas at risk.
If Trump agrees to put ALL Americans at risk of Kim nukes North Korea happy, Choe ecstatic, China happy, Russia happy, all the America haters happy.
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For all the complaints about the President's blustering toward NK and fears that he is creating instability in how to handle the rocketman, he is still holding back on actions that could and should get rid of Kim Jong-Il's regime. The sooner rocketman is overthrown and replaced the better off the world will be. America is taking the lead on eliminating this menace and so it's going to take the heat. China isn't doing much. Neither is Russia or our European allies. Someone has to stand up and defuse this crisis. Trump is the only one with the guts to do it. Let's see if he can do what no one else has been able to for more than half a century.
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Not to defend Trump in any way, but the South Koreans need to break out of their bubble. The creation of nuclear weapons able to hit the US makes it no longer just about them, in fact for us it makes them almost irrelevant, so they need to work diligently on how they'll deal with NK's probable attack on them, because it's more than likely coming and we won't accept casualties on our own soil to stop it...
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International diplomacy requires intelligence and skill, neither of which Trump has. Whatever our policies may be, Trump seems to make it up as he goes. This trip could end up a disaster leaving the US more hated than ever and opening the door for the Chinese to take our place.
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South Korea deliberately made itself vulnerable by building Seoul as a hostage city practically on the border with N. Korea and within range its cannons and missiles. Nevertheless, the US maintains a "security" guarantee with S. Korea. Why? Why do we guarantee the security of a nation that refuses to look out for its own security? A security arrangement which by its terms threatens to bring the US to the brink of a nuclear war.
But it's worse than that. N. Korea isn't content simply with threatening S. Korea. A month ago N. Korea announced that Japan—the entire nation of Japan—no longer "needs to exist." And N. Korea's present drive for ballistic missile technology is aimed squarely at its capacity to drop nuclear bombs on American cities. That is not international relations, it is madness.
N. Korea isn't simply S. Korea's problem anymore. The South is no longer entitled to a veto or even much of a say in these matters. If the South hadn't rebuilt Seoul as a hostage city so close to the N. Korean border then the US could have ended the North's nuclear ambitions decades ago. Seoul's hostage status is the reason American presidents chose for decades to kick the can down the road. Now N. Korea threatens the whole world, and especially us. The South, having chosen the bizarre path of turning itself into a willing hostage to fate and the Kim family's insanity, must now live with, and possibly die with, it's choices.
Koreana Borealis delenda est.
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It is high time that South Koreans realized they are pawns ready to be sacrificed for the glory of a sick and immoral narcissist with dictatorial ambitions - Donald Trump.
The South Koreans could, if they wanted, unilaterally end the Korean War, which is technically still on, and approach North Korea with reconciliation moves. The South Koreans must realize that their existential threat does not come from Pyongyang, but from Washington. How this historical travesty came to be is irrelevant, what matters is the current reality. Trump, the immoral narcissist, is not a friend of South Korea anymore than he is a friend decent Americans.
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@Richard Monckton
Both Koreas understand 'the threat' and its source. Finding a way to harness it is a problem for both as well. The Korean War is over for them in terms of their mutual existence but it became another American war lost from the U.S. perception although an estimated 20% of the north's population was destroyed, MacArthur could not have his way to use the atomic bomb and his replacement had to settle for the 38th parallel again.
Think Trump will sign an new armistice?
Make that Obama Trump.
With this comment approval rate Times comments are now repeating fiction just like that Facebook empire repeated Russian propaganda. Kim needs more forced labor. Let Richard go. I’ll pay the air fare.
Pampered rich South Koreans may not have the guts to face the reality. They are unwilling to realise the alliance will fall short if they dont hold their part of the bargain. If they don't want to be part of the alliance then they are on their own which literally means as a colony of China. South Koreans should have changed the statusquo much before when they had chance but they didn't now complaining about Trump & US wont help them much. China is the sole reason for the current situation; NK blackmailing SK just because of the nuclear weapons & Missile both are given by China directly or through the proxy nation Pakistan. China is the biggest terrorist nation in the world and they are the next axis of evil.
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The US/ROK alliance is fundamentally a manifestation of South Korea's abdication of sovereignty and an unassailable 'fact of life' for many Americans. After 7 decades of US dominance in the southern part of the peninsula, it is time to end what General Richard Stillwell in the mid 1970s called the biggest abdication of sovereignty the world have ever seen, referring to South Korea's junior partnership with the United States. How long would Americans tolerate this relationship were the tables turned?
The North Koreans have learned a lesson: the US only invades non-nuclear countries.
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Massimo. NK doesn't have anything to do with being invaded or not because of nuclear weapons. NK is the pawn of China and China uses NK as a tool to further its own agenda.
Put another way, NK doesn't need to be invaded by the US. It may be bombed at some future point but it doesn't need to be invaded. SK will see to that.
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The US has never had, as a goal, plans for invading the DPRK. This is a wrong conclusion for anyone to assume.
Military drills, conducted with ROK forces, has always been defensive and has never ended up with any rounds falling on their territory, unlike what the north did on South Korean Yongbyeong Island a few years back.
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The South Koreans have learned a lesson: North Korea and China invade whenever they feel like to spread communism by force and without the US the two would have eaten South Korea whole but instead just killed millions.
Sri Lanka and Indonesia and Lichtenstein and Mexico and Costa Rica and about a hundred and fifty others have learned a lesson. No nukes and the world is just fine.
Read much Massimo? Or just pull it out of, oh, the air?
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If South Korea acquires nuclear weapons, it will ensure security through a balance of terror with North Korea and will enable the U.S. to reduce or eliminate its conventional military presence there.
China may not like it, but they'll get over it. Or just maybe they will find a way to remove Kim Jong Un and his nuclear weapons before it reaches that point.
Either way, it's a win for the U.S.
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Who is to prevent nuclear proliferation in Asia that includes some former Soviet republics, Iran, and a large chunk of the Arab world? If anything, the North Korea situation is a sure sign of that proliferation prospect.
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JY:
Unfortunately, there is nothing that can prevent proliferation a this point.
You are 100% correct. North Korea (and in a decade, Iran) has opened the Age of Proliferation. It won't be pretty.
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Once Mr. Kim pointef his nuclear weapons at American it became a game changer. How the Seoul government could not see that coming is wishful thinking on their part. The Korean military has put off assuming command of their defense for decades implying they are not ready. The six party talks that went on for years only provided time for the North to perfect the development of their nuclear weapons to hit the US mainland. Mr. Kim"s strategy to decouple the alliance appears to be working.
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Are you certain that the game didn't change when the U.S. pointed nuclear weapons at the North?
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