I've found the coverage of this attack to be incredibly light. It's almost like the NYT is trying to subtly manipulate us.
Remember the Boston Marathon bombing? That killed 3 people yet got like 2 weeks straight of coverage. This guy runs over 20 people and kills 8 of them and the NYT spits out the minimal number of articles one can post for a terrorist attack. I must have even missed the victim article where they went into the backstories of the victims. Or the article with interviews with family members. Or the 10-20 opinion pieces that promote gun control after every terrorist attack.
Im just saying. I don't really care about the tax bill right now, obviously the document that comes out of Congress will look nothing like what's on the table right now, so I'd rather just not waste my time.
I want to hear more about this terrorist. I want to hear more about the editorial boards twisted defense of the diversity visa. I want to hear what this jihad jerks parents have to say about raising a mass murderer for a son. I want to hear about how New Yorkers feel about this. I want to hear more about that other guy the FBI took in. I also read that this terrorist had been the primary sponsor for 23 more immigrants. I really want to hear about of that is true or even possible. 23 people?! That seems pretty excessive to allow someone who won a diversity lottery to bring in 23 more people.
I know this story is not narrative friendly, but come on!
3
It is difficult for native-born Americans to navigate our culture. Tens of millions of prime age men have dropped out of the labor force. (They are not counted in the official rate of unemployment.)
Researchers Anne Case and Angus Deaton discovered that increasing numbers of white middle age men were dying “deaths of despair” from suicide, alcohol, and drugs.
Record rates of our own citizens are having trouble finding employment and meaningful lives. Why do we assume that people from entirely different cultures will be able to make lives here for themselves? Reuters has a column titled
"Suppressed at home, some Uzbeks turn to militant Islam abroad”
which reads, "People who follow Uzbekistan closely say that, based on what is known so far of Saipov, he appears to be one of “a forgotten generation” of Uzbek men who left the former Soviet republic for a better life bereft of a proper religious education and unequipped to navigate the West. That, and the common difficulty of assimilating into a foreign country and culture, may have left him susceptible to extremist influences when times got tough.”
Saipov's culture had not prepared for making what he considered to be a decent life for himself here. Like many Americans, in the prime of their lives, he gave up. Unlike Americans, his background made him susceptible to terrorist recruiters.
We need to end the diversity lottery.
6
I am not so convinced that ISIS (or whatever happens to be the religious-terror-group-of-the-day) is doing the recruiting. I am beginning to think that hateful persons who feel the world has somehow been unfair to them are looking for "support and justification" to lash out and vent their perverted sense of revenge by killing others, along with themselves, because planet Earth doesn't meet their overly hyped expectations 100%. So these hateful creatures don't get recruited by ISIS--ISIS is recruited by these hateful creatures. ISIS is more like a support group for losers, not necessarily a group that cleverly indoctrinates upstanding citizens.
8
We got an earful after Las Vegas about how that was "not the time to talk about gun control." Well, how about now? Imagine how much worse the NYC would have been had this terrorist been armed with more than pellet and paintball guns? How many more civilians or police might have been killed or injured? And what part do the relatively tough gun laws of NY and NJ play in that compared to the lax laws of Nevada? Can we talk about that now? Please?
3
The whole Islamic angle used in this attack sounds to me as a cover-up excuse being used by this coward loser. This is the story of a failure to able to make it in America. He did not get an education or learn a trade that could support his families lifestyle. As a coward who felt unable to make it he used an angle to give himself the courage to take his anger out and fool himself into being righteous. He was a total failure not even getting himself killed.
5
Why all this business about ISIS. Isis is gone,reduced to thousands of prisoners begging for mercy and a few hundred creeps living in caves in Mesopotamia.
And all this analysis about inspiration. Who cares what inspired,motivated the sick,crazy murderer. Maybe it was the full moon, maybe it was is own miserable disappointing life, is it really that important? Perhaps before hand in therapy,but after the act, just disgust and saddness.
It has not escaped me, as it seems to have escaped the representatives of the Democratic party, that the President seems to be much more exorcised about the tragedy in New York than he was about the slaughter in Las Vegas that took nearly 60 lives and wounded over 500.
One can only assume that the origin of the perpetrator is more important to the chief executive than the carnage itself.
For the events in New York, he calls for reform.
For the events in Las Vegas, he offers his condolences.
6
I fail to understand why the NSA hasn't shut these channels down. As for the firms that make these channels available so IS can use them, they should be sued in open court and otherwise pressured to shut down as well.
This is war.
5
Dear Police Commissioner: Please explain why it took your policeman to shoot 9 bullets to catch this culprit? Do your Policemen not take target shooting practice or the guns you give them are so defective, the world must be laughing at our police!!!
3
This was a man who was bitter about the direction and state of his life and rather than looking inwardly for things he could have done better or things he could do to improve his lot, he looked outward for someone to blame. ISIS gives loser men like this a scapegoat in the form of the supposedly evil U.S. empire—an enemy they can lash out at and use as a punching bag to let out their personal frustrations. And for all the bravado, these losers are simply people who take blaming someone else for their own problems to an extreme. Spirituality very often has very little to do with such terrorist acts.
10
I don't know what to say really. This is so sad. Iran grieved too.
but one quick thing to note:
The attacker, whoever he was, wherever he was from, whatever intentions he had, and whatever color his skin was ( basically whatever this whole professional investigative journalism reveals about him everyday ) must ring us all only one bell ; " These never ending dooms day acts of terror are the only rewards for decades of deliberately going about hawkish policies around the world and ignoring the consequences. "
Think about it. Who is responsible for all this bloody mess?
1
Social media and many of the offerings of internet technology companies have been a net negative. Fellow citizens are more closed off from reality and shut-in to the digital realm, a phenomenon that has led to anxiety, insecurity, depression, and loneliness; these same companies have programmed and automated numerous tasks and jobs -- something perhaps not preventable by the inevitable drive of technology -- and a direct consequence of this is increased income inequality; and the last I'll mention, but certain no the least of their sins, is their inability to address the problem this article hits upon. Confront tech companies about the latter and if you're lucky enough to get a response it's some libertarian mumbling about privacy rights, but in reality they can't afford to scare off a single user, because many of their pathetic revenue models are based on preying on unsuspecting users with advertising, a whole other issue.
The internet is an unprecedented technology for mankind, and as such needs to be closely scrutinized and more heavily regulated until some of these issues have been figured out and brought under control.
4
I simply do not believe this was an "islamic state inspired" attack. I do not believe the Denver area Walmart attack Tuesday night was a random attack to spread fear. The timing and The Con Don and Sessions' immediate attacks to clamp down on terrorists tell another story.
Most of these supposed "terrorism" attacks on U.S. soil are carried out by white, male common criminals with police records.
I wonder if police and the FBI actually want to get to the bottom of these attacks and, if so, if they will and if it will become public knowledge.
Time will tell. With The Con Don and other Robber Barons' boys, and a couple of girls, in power in every branch of OUR government we will only find out if conscientious Americans inside those departments have the courage to speak out.
1
The effect social media and apps are having on the influence of terrorism is insane. All of the hate and dangerous communication that is put through the applications is ridiculous and needs to be shut down immediately. This isn't a matter of privacy or individual freedoms. This is abut terrorism, our country is constantly being attacked and it is absurd to not take much larger acts to protect it. The safety of all people are being risked and the U.S. along with social media need to harshly make adjustments to prevent the world from any harm presented by these situations.
10
Ah, but we in the West have come to use reverence for "freedom" as a religious belief. No questions asked.
As long as we keep buying into the notion that all of these "acts" have nothing to do with a particular religion, thereby giving it a full, unapologetic free pass, we'll get nowhere. The Catholic Church has been publicly shamed about its history of child abuse, and rightly so. The movie Spotlight became the talk of the town. The movie "Fitna" was made, and Theo van Gogh, the filmmaker, was murdered in broad daylight, and Geert Wilders put onj 24hr police protection because a death sentence has been put on him. This other religion seems to be as much a "Teflon Don" as the once famous New York Don was. Reason? Political Correctness? You decide.
38
Don't forget the 'fatwas' on many including Ayaan Hirsi Ali, Salman Rushdie and the Danish cartoonist. The murders of those at Charlie Hebdo as well.
You can not criticize the Muslim world in any way or you are accused of 'Islamophobia'. Tougher skin would be prudent as the backlash is inevitable.
6
The left leaning media have become the gurus for protecting one religion they barely know but will secularize Christmas and reduce it to a meaningless bauble holiday in the name of pluralism. Go figure.
2
Guy shoots 58 people in Las Vegas and he's sick, evil, insane. Guy kills eight people in New York and he is "radicalized." The first we say is impossible to stop, the latter we think is an immigrant issue with a quick fix.
20
the commonality in the crime is senseless murder, one was for as yet unknown reasons. maybe he was just full of anger and hate that he decided to kill as many people as he could because he could.
The other was grounded in an ideological context that is much more widespread and facilitated by people who wish to wipe out our way of life. saying they are similar is not very helpful in addressing the dark underbelly of Islamic culture that uses the ignorant, uneducated and disenfranchised to carry out carnage in the name of the Islamic religion. That alone makes it an Islamic problem.
The coward in Vegas was an evil man with no ideological bent, he just wanted to hurt people to fill some twisted empty feeling in his dark soul.
3
His stunning cowardice and running people down from behind should be the lead. Not his Isis claims.
20
After all these years, I still don't believe that civilization lacks the tools to shut down these websites used by terrorist provocateurs. If U. S. law preversely prevents website shutdown, certainly the leaders of other countries could do so within their legal parameters. Israel, just as one of many possible examples. And why isn't there a swashbuckling billionaire who does it as a public service? Granted that the terrorists have skill, those at the cutting edge have more skill. Maybe someone can explain why the civilized world fails to protect itself against choreographed slaughter.
21
Perhaps keeping them up and running saves far more lives than it loses?
1
Of course of course, this is far-fetched and politically incorrect but this guy's first name means "Allah's Sword" and his beard is not incoherent with the mission implied by his name. He got into the United States by saying, "Hello, I'm Allah's Sword" and he was duly welcomed to America. I'm just trying to say that there are cultural fringes that shouldn't be allowed to take part in the lottery and that they are not as unidentifiable as one might think. Incidentally, their religion forbids them from gambling and to them, taking part in a lottery is gambling. So from the very start, absolutely nothing made sense about this guy.
28
There is big difference between terrorism and Jihad. This is Jihad this is Holy War. I wish the media would start calling it what it really is. This is all about religion.
22
Terrorism or jihad, who cares? This is not a head trip. Destroy the source.
1
Stop posting photos of Saipov. You certainly need to report his act and its motivation. But he should be condemned, as a murderer, to spend the rest of his life in lonely obscurity. Perhaps if terrorists wannabes had a better understanding of the consequences of Saipov's 15 days of fame--that he will spend the rest of his life in prison--which, given his age, could be 50 years or more--rather than be martyred or featured on the front page of major papers--they might be less inclined to follow his example. We have to find a way to balance coverage of what's newsworthy with coverage groups like ISIS can point to as glorifying crimes of terror and the criminals who commit them.
48
Surely members (is it a club?) of IS celebrate when they see the mugs of their soldiers plastered in the NYT and elsewhere. Mission accomplished.
Which leads to the question, why should he be in prison for "50 years or more?"
He murdered eight people and injured 12 more with premeditation and malice.
Where is the death penalty? If not for him, then for who?
What's to be gained by keeping him in prison the rest of his miserable life?
It wasn’t that long ago when the media started using the verb “radicalized” to describe what was happening to young Muslim jihadists. The term implies that these are otherwise affable, kindly young men and women who have fallen under the influence of some wicked Imam who molds them like putty in his hands - which kind of absolves the attackers of personal responsibility - which is probably the point of those who use the verb - almost giving them a victim status.
But let us note that the “good” Imam from Tampa instructed this young man to become more familiar with the religion because he suspected he was “misinterpreting” Islam. So, did he do that? Probably impossible to say, but his own “interpretation” of Islam (or perhaps his further study of Islam?) “radicalized” him and led him to that bike path near Chambers Street in Manhattan. And he obviously feels his cause was just because he freely admitted it and was proud to be a soldier of the Caliphate, and to have, as they phrase it, killed some “crusaders.” So, I guess if we are going to use this verb “radicalized,” maybe we should examine the source of their “radicalization?” Is it really wicked and evil Imams who turn their innocent young heads and mold them into warriors? Or is it because, as they get more into their religion, they “radicalize” themselves? Oh, and what is the “correct” interpretation of Islam? Seems to me that’s kind of an open question.
32
And Jaguar describes its car design as "timeless" as well. I wouldn't put a lot of stock in just another PR slogan. Cars and ideologies are just both more or less fads. Both are bad for the environment too, by the way.
1
The only fly in the ointment you describe is that the "ideology" in question is the 2nd LARGEST religion in the world. So much for just being a "fad".
5
And Jaguar seems to be doing okay: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-05-23/jaguar-land-rover-pro...
Words work.
It’s not Saipov’s fault. It’s the fault of western civilization. He was radicalized by YouTube videos, apps on his phone, internet chat rooms and the like. Also Saipov never wanted to be in this country that exposed him to the plethora of radicalization tech elements. He was tricked into coming here by a immigration lottery. Saipov wasn’t ready to face the hostile world of western tech. He is a victim and so is the Muslim religion of tech.
15
Haha.
8
Until there's a better solution, I propose that when someone comes into America, of whatever religion or ethnicity, he's sponsored by a family, and if the immigrant commits an act of terror, the entire family is deported.
Yes, it's unfair to punish the innocent for the crimes of the guilty. But it's much more unfair to be murdered in the street just to make another's God happy.
Putting some responsibility on the families for their sons, cousins, fathers, etc, should result in making them a little more concerned with what these men do. When one of their family grows a beard and starts talking with an imam a lot, or buys a lot of firearms, or has packages delivered of fertilizer and ball bearings ... maybe the family would alert the authorities.
27
I completely disagree. It's not fair to have one person's life and actions represent others. So many of the crimes committed today are done by family members and when the others are interviewed they had no idea their loved ones were even capable of such a thing. Especially these days, people are so disconnected with the world, it would be ridiculous to blame an entire family for someone else's actions. Sayfullo did commit a heinous crime but his family could have 0 idea and be hard-working people, they don't deserve to be punished for their grown child's wrong doings. What if they've made a life of their own in America, a nice house, a good living? Even if he was sponsored it wouldn't have made a difference; there is nothing they could have done to prevent his actions if he chose not to share his plans with them.
7
I'm so bad at keeping up with the PC police.
So Saipov has been consuming material advocating violence and murder toward a defined political and social end state. He decided to act on that guidance, and followed the instructions pretty closely, including publicly acknowledging his ties to a U.S. government-recognized terrorist group.
Is it now okay to call him a terrorist or is that still somehow not politically correct? Please advise me.
34
I will use the word terrorist for you. He fits the US definition perfectly. I'm sorry liberals. He used ideological (religious fanaticism) justification to carry out an act of terror (inflicting harm) on innocent civilians. What did the victims do to deserve this? Nothing. He didn't know them personally. They were simply in the wrong place at the wrong time when he went on his religious rampage. I hope we can come together to crush ISIS.
4
When Jared Loughner shot Gaby Gafford (a government official --> political), he left countless notes and videos advocating action toward a defined political end state. (He called for the abandonment of federal laws, based on his self-claimed superior understanding of the Constitution.)
I'm fine with you calling Saipov a terrorist, if you also acknowledge that white, secular American Loughner also qualifies for the term.
3
ML - If I may, I think you created a straw man and then knocked it down. Everyone agrees that Saipov is a terrorist and a vile, cowardly, despicable one; and that he made Islam a part of his arsenal; and that he wanted his act to be regarded as being in the name of ISIS. Who are the "PC police" and what have they actually done that you disagree with?
By writing that ISIS will last forever, the members are really showing anxiety that it will fall apart. The caliphate is shrinking faster than the polar caps. The membership remain blood thirsty and murderous. Whether that helps to perpetuate ISIS remains to be seen. It hasn't worked in the past.
1
It is foolish to play political theater with a Murderer.
Let's cut through the nonsense. Mr. Saipov is a MURDERER. He killed people....with pre-meditated, calculated intentions.
Do NOT allow ISIS to claim this senseless crime as a "victory over the Evil Empire of UnBelievers who have attacked the Caliphate"...yadda yadda.
Its time to use the US Justice System the way it was intended, back before the Bush Admin perverted it and the Obama Admin self-righteously ignored it.
Try Saipov for MURDER. Expose him as the mindless, loser easily manipulated by criminals to be the patsy,,,,,,,a murderer.
And then let the Jury decide the punishment. Death? or maybe life imprisonment in Hawaii?
18
Life imprisonment. Death makes this jerk a "martyr." Rotting in obscurity for decades is a fit punishment for a little man who murdered people to get attention for himself and his hideous "cause."
29
Right. The death penalty is too good for him. And, making him a martyr only encourages ISIS. See the following from Wednesday's Times:
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/01/world/americas/isis-manhattan-truck-a...
ISIS apparently only like a terrorist/murderer if he dies in the attempt. Live, and they ignore you.
1
Life imprisonment sounds bad, and I'm not saying I'd want it for myself, but in American prisons it's basically three meals a day, medical care and recreation for life.
What a life sentence also is is an insult to society, to civilization itself. Are those who were murdered less deserving of life than this cretin? Tell me why he should live after he made them die.
Also, if he becomes a "martyr" to anyone, that's fine. That helps us identify who to target.
I understand the reason Gov. Cuomo was quick to brand the terrorist a lone wolf, especially without any evidence. Its mistakes like this that attract harsh comments from his ctitics.
10
Pepperman - Perhaps we should be glad the governor hasn't walked through the crime scene with a cameraman in tow and then visited Saipov to have a glaring contest, as at Dannamora after the escape there.
1