Schools and colleges have become more of a business than an educational institution. Everyday we hear stories of college graduate, high in debt and can't find a job. That's what happens when you leave your education to someone else.
32
Everyone wants 'unique'. It's not reasonable anymore to just be middle of the road with solid credentials? That's unfortunate. These days, being white, middle class and unable to afford paying cash for college puts you in about the highest risk category there is for not getting admitted and then leading a life of poverty for 10-20 years while you're paying it all back.
I haven't met a Harvard or Yale grad yet that I felt was head and shoulders above me in intelligence, drive or skill.
What you're really buying with an elite college is access to their alumni network.
72
First you publish a story about teenagers having "severe" anxiety (October 11, 2017) and now we get the article listing the mountain of qualifications one needs to get into college. The kid has to be rich, perfect grades, high test scores, doing community service, president of their class, in sports, really, really want to go to the college of their choice...oh, and they need to live in Montana. Nope, doesn't contribute to anxiety at all. Kids and their parents are probably totally chill after reading this one.
202
Studies from the 1930s tracked Phillips Exeter grads who attended Harvard and earned PhDs in math and a few sciences.
Most common characteristic of this demographic when they applied at Exeter for year 9 and 10 was doing something they thought of themselves that unusual and helpful when they were prior to age 10.
Some of the unusual paternalistic actions I took prior to age 10 became lifelong habits. I thank my parents for their benign neglect.
Many times I was interrogated by the principal of my grammar school to confess the name(s) of those who wrote my papers. I never cracked and gave up public library librarians who answered my questions as if I were an adult when researching a superficial topic on a subsurface or hidden level.
10
Don't take on debt you cannot be sure repay readily within 5-10 years after graduation.
Just don't.
The credential is so not worth that anymore.
Really.
If your dream requires you to be a debt slave into the most fruitful years of you life - choose another dream, because your dream is a nightmare (you just don't realize it yet).
86
Not sure there could be a more perfect list of advice for the New York Times readership & demographic
13
All those Times readers who live in Montana, that is.
31
As an alumni interviewer of applicants for an Ivy League school, what I look for in every applicant, is something they have done that they believe sets them apart from the other 32,000 applicants. Those few who have given me outstanding input on this have been admitted. Most don't, and aren't.
Mostly it's fervor and belief and drive and auhenticity--and results they are proud of because they know they have done well.
20
Some alumni interviewers will tell you that the only students they have ever interviewed that were admitted was the recruited athlete. Others will say that they have interviewed dozens of incredibly impressive students and not one was admitted.
If you are truly claiming that your interviews recognized the students who set themselves apart and they were all admitted, then you are one of the rare interviewers who can claim that.
86
Number One: Don't have a dream college.
123
Several of these "tips" are questionable, or belied by NY Times' own reporting.
1) "Grades and test scores still carry the most weight"
Test scores? You mean SATs?
Actually, the "elite" schools (as the Times loves to label them) weighs other things more heavily than standardized tests). Read what they themselves say! And grades, the level of courses (advanced math vs home econ., etc), and teachers' recommendations are more important to them too. SATs/ACTs weigh more heavily at large schools or state systems, which often have "cut-off" scores (below a certain score, and they won't evaluate further).
2) Express your authentic self"?
This platitudinous advice, despite the never-ending articles in the Times, and elsewhere, about "clever" or "novel" essays that "got a student in"? Most reading as canned and inauthentic as anything you can read. One wishes this was true, but in an era of massive prep, paid "experts," and "consultants", simply not true. The idea may be to SOUND authentic, but that's not the same an BEING authentic!
32
I recommend you read more recent reporting. You are out of date.
18
I agree.
On the other hand, perhaps those admissions officers at certain Ivy League colleges just happen to find far more "authentic" students among the privileged students at connected private schools than they do at public schools where the middle class students may have higher standardized test scores, but just don't sound nearly as "authentic" as those overprivileged students do.
30
Your bias screams through. One hopes the kids that do get into these schools learn to let the evidence speak for itself, rather than come to a question with such preconceptions as the commenters here.
2
I thought a sense of humor might relieve the boredom of the people reading the answers to essay questions, so I wrote answers with lines like: "For several years in my life (labeled "Band" on the attached resume), I sought rock-and-roll stardom" ... and "besides, I hear Boston is a fun place to be". I also recall describing handling humorous encounters with drunks in some music venues. It was funnier than these lines now seem to be .... I got in and when I met one of the deans, he remembered my application and said that they had laughed when they read it and let me in because they "just had to meet" me.
40
More important to your life long goals than getting into your 'dream college'
is to gain a foothold in your 'dream city'.
-
The later will influence where you date, marry, get your first job. get a career, buy a house, raise children, retire, become a nursing home resident, and die in. And even be buried for eternity.
That is a lot of living than just 4 years in a dorm!
---
It is better to go to a middling college in your dream city
than to go to a dream school in a hell city.
Long term, the city where you put your roots is more important than where you learn calculus.
93
You're right about that. My daughter "escaped" Florida ten years ago to Boston for college, stayed for grad school, has bought a condo there and has no plans on ever returning to Florida on a permanent basis. She chose a great city.
34
This is terrific advice.
23
Um, met my husband in college; we couldn't stay in a dream city, but have my dream relationship, 31 years this month, and have raised my two kids in a good place, just not my favorite place.
9
Money always helps. The kids that get in with early decision don't have to wait for the financial aid package to make their decision. Speaking from experience, it also seems that having a relative's name on a building does help despite what is reported by this article.
45
The headline should be edited to read: 10 Things to Know About Getting Your Kid Into Your Dream College.
Instead of trying to figure out the system, help your children to develop the study habits and critical thinking and writing skills needed to do well in life and they will have many options when they apply to college. That's probably a quaint notion in this age, but in the end it just might be better for your child's mental health.
66
Best thing to do is to NOT have a "dream college." There are hundreds of great schools in the US (and elsewhere) where any student can get a great experience, superior education, have fun, and develop lifelong friendships. Most students end up happy at the school they go to. Deciding that only one school is your dream school is likely setting you up for disappointment and narrows your options to discover a place, major or world of ideas that might change your life in ways you never expected.
116
For most schools ACT/GPA are all you need and I am not even sure they read your essays. If you have the grades you are in.
If you want to go Top 25 or a tiny private - that is a different animal. These schools are smaller & build a diverse class from thousands of qualified applicants. Grades, interest, leadership, sports, commitment to community, essays & some random skill/sport they need. Even after all of that it is a lottery.
Here is my advice: If you have the right stuff, apply to the top schools and as a backup apply to your flagship public and the flagship public in the surrounding states. They need stellar students and they pay for them and provide perks for special living options and honors programs - there is a ton of support at the big publics. Apply to a few and be amazed
If your student is average - and you do not have the funds, you may want to consider a commuter school for the first two years to lower the cost and give this student a little time to grow up and find their groove. Many students change their major which adds a year or two to graduate and that cost can overwhelm any family.
My son applied last year and the most important task in the application process was know your major, be committed, & apply to the schools that do this major well.
My son's outcome - Major Materials Science - applied to 9 state schools, accepted to 7, scholarships from 5.
45
Great major, Deirdre. By choosing materials science, your son demonstrated that he has intellectual curiosity and a desire to learn.
4
So funny you said this - because he discussed how he was intellectually curious when he talked about himself in his essays. He loves his school and his program and he is focused on getting on a research project and eventually hopes to go to graduate school. Pretty impressive for a first semester freshman. He spent the last year of high school exploring engineering disciplines and fell in love with materials. From there it all fell into place.
1
I know we can't turn the NYTimes into a chat group, but your son is in an enviable position. We are living in the golden age of materials science, an absolutely thrilling field, with tons of fascinating job opportunities. Kudos to the boy for finding it at such a young age.
15
Agreed on most of this, but I'll quibble with one. Diversity on campus, both racial and economic, is poorly understood.
Many Black and Brown kids enrolled at top schools are not low-income. And the ones that are low-income come disproportionately from private schools. Further, many Black students at top schools come have African or West Indian roots (see the recent flap at Cornell) and have not faced the same hurdles as domestic African American families descended from slavery. Colleges are desperate to be seen as racially diverse, but the same rules still apply - if you can pay all or most of the bill, and if you come from a select few schools (public or private), then you have a huge advantage.
With regard to economic and geographic diversity, it is still very difficult to get into a top college if the applicant's high school is unfamiliar to admissions officers. So if a kid is from a rural and/or tiny school, or from a school that doesn't send a lot of kids to college, then the hill is very steep. Colleges are much more likely to accept low income kids from a school that they know (Boston Latin, Stuyvesant) than a school that they don't.
62
It's interesting how you comprehended the word 'diversity' in the article to mean acceptance of black students and extended that to suggest they also were meant to represent low-income applicants. The article, on the other hand, didn't make any reference to racial diversity (although it did discuss geographic diversity). Also, it made no mention of 'low-income' meaning to represent applicants that are not white. Colleges try to achieve a 'diverse' student population based on a host of attributes -- personality, skills, desired subject areas, and yes race as well as national origin (schools also accept young people from abroad) -- that hopefully will save a student body from being filled with young people that have overly similar curriculum vitae. I suggest you expand your thinking about the concept of 'diversity' in the US to mean more than just the ratio of 'black' to 'white' people in any grouping
9
Is it possible for someone to begin their higher education at a local two-year college? Is it possible for such a person to lead a rewarding and successful life? Of course.
The article implies that the so-called "dream colleges" like those named in this article are inherently superior for all comers, that one's life will be inevitably blessed by acceptance to one. Or, failing to win acceptance, that one's life will be unavoidably devoid of opportunity. Not true.
27
Community college transfer was in the article titled "11 Things to know..."
13
Oops! That 1400 (which I assume means 2, 700 scores on the SAT), should now be 2100. A few years ago they included a third required test, so a perfect score is now 2400....and you can do the math for what highly selective schools require.
2
Two things:
1) SAT changed its format back to max score of 1600 last year.
2) Many top schools require at least two SAT subject matter tests IN ADDITION to SAT or ACT
14
Right. And that seems to be moving in the WRONG direction on many levels. Funny to read the so-called intentions of colleges (in this article and the one from 11/1/17 What Colleges Want) to move toward more diversity and away from test scores which we know favor wealthy (white) kids, while in fact over the last 20 years there has been this development of now having subject matter tests. Seems like they say one thing, but do another....
They have now gone back to just the two sections on the SAT so a perfect score is 1600.
15